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I understand their are different branches of Lukumi that came from Cuba - Pimienta (seems to be very prominent here in U.S.- at least from my experience), Trapatito ? ( I know I probably spelled that wrong, so please pardon that mistake), Funke ? (perhaps this is not an actual branch, but just a faulty memory on my part), or there others ? I am ignorant of those things, so I am asking. Not asking for secret information, just historical, cultural Obviously, it would seem, that part of difference in those lines would be different original founders way of doing things, perspectives, etc. And I know that even within the Pimienta line, there will be differences between one ile and another ile. I have listed some questions below. What are the different branches of Lukumi in Cuba ? Was that difference based on the different regions of Nigeria that the original founders came from ? ( I understand that from one region of Nigeria to another there will be differences in patakis, songs, etc.) How did the words "pimienta", "trapatito", "funke" etc. etc. get to be attached to those particular lines ?
Can priests from Pimienta work with those from Trapatito(sp?) or vice versa ? Thank you for your time and hope that you all have/are had a great Thanksgiving holiday. I appreciate any comments, answers, or responses you would have to share.
Se Alafia ni ? Old Time Religion, Ibunike, members and visitors, (Point of interest I hope. . . =0) The phrase Se Alafia ni is a question. It is simlar to saying How do you do? Or Como esta usted. Se àláfíà ní, (Shay ala fe ah nee) Is all peacefull with you? Is all well with you? The response can be àláfíà ní adupe, I am well thank you or just, Adupe thank you. Adupe = we thank you or we give thanks or perhaps let us be thankful. Modupe, I thank you, I give thanks, I am thankful. I was taught by teachers of Ede Yoruba I have had over the years that Adupe is preferable to Modupe, especially if you think of the response as let us be thankful)
which descends from Latuan. According to my Padrino. Alafia member and visitor to OLU forum. The other was the King of Oyotunji Village Oseijiman Adefunmi. if memory serves me. Culo Verde descends from Fermina Gomez. I am no where near as well versed on the rams and their history as I would like to be. since I have a special guest. Culo Verde. in . Yes. I will ask him about the the various Rama. at present. ( likewise an Egbado/Egba) who was initiated in Africa and was one of major movers and shakers in the establishment of La Regla de Ocha as it exists today. I am not mistaken. in this case. Perhaps our Abure Oba Ecun could privide the forum with an answer before I have had the chance to get back with what my Padrino has to say. descends from Maria Togua. I can say this though.In reference to the question. Verde. Polo Ocha Weye. Again. I received Obe in the Coral Rama. If. One of the most famous Culo Verde people was Lino Apolinar Gonzalez. I do not know her particular background. is asscoiated with "unripe" (not fit for city living). if I am not mistaken. Timotea Albear. was called that because they were people from Matanzas province. Ocha Bi. Culo Verde ? That would translate into English as Green Ass ? Alafia ni adupe Old time. who came into the Havana area. it does mean green asses. I am connected to this rama through kari Ocha and Polo Ocha Weye gave Obe to my Padrino in Ocha Chris Oliana. was an Egbado/ Egba. the Rama you called Curo Verde is actually called Culo Verde. "Los culoverdes" is more a reference to being somewhat closer to "countrified" and not quite urbanized as those who lived in a major city like "La Habana". It could be said that a particular "ethnic influence" was what region of Yoruba country the founders came from or what influences were strongest where the people were. I have the great good fourtune to have my Padrino (in Obe) visiting with me. Be well Obalorun Ala Aganju (Edited by Obalorun Alafia Ni! Another two are: Rama de los Millionarios (Oba Willie Ramos belongs to this one) & Rama de la Bandera (I heard of this one in Cuba). has been around for quite a while. who was according to John mason. I may not however be prompt with a response. (branches) and share the answer with the forum. who was one the first two Black Americans to make Ocha in Cuba. The Pimienta Rama. hence the term "culoverde" ("unripe azz").
There is a rhythm and a particular type of drums and drumming specific to the Ijesha. it is my sincere wish that someone will please rescue me. . La Rama San Jose Ochenta (my line) was founded by Ña Margarita Armenteros. I also think I was told that she was the Madam of a "Joy House. according to the Oriate Miguel Ramos' web site. Aina (Ibae). found in the Havana area. Be well Obalorun Ala Aganju Good Morning OTR. hence the name "Pimienta" (Spanish for pepper). According to my understanding of what I was told by a friend who is a scholar and Olo'batala. La Rama de Los Millonarios was founded by Ña Rosalía Gramosa. Efunshé Warikondó (Ibae)." so her branch was one of "spicy" people. Trapito is the same as La Pimienta. The Ijesha." and that she initiated quite a few of the "ladies. who has been researching Lukumi lines for more than fourteen years in the United States and in Cuba. "Jose Pata de Palo"(Ibae). I think I was also told that Aurora Lamar was initiated by Jose Urquiola. She lived in the Barrio Atare in El Cero. La Pimienta was born from Culo Verde. whose "capital" is called Ilesha are from an area that is situated between Ife in the South and Oshogbo on the North. Bendicion Baba Obalorun & Board. These drums and the rhythm are both named for them Ijesha or in Cuba Iyesa. who was the founder of La Rama Culo Verde. So. and more from Havana. Las Pirañas or Pirhanas also came from La Pimienta. who was an ahijado of Fela Mendez. who are a distinct ethnic group. and because of her Asian features. The worship of Oshun and Ogun is strong amongst Ijesha people. Havana. or from her God children's God children. the well known Puerto Rican Oni Chango who gave the first Obe/Cuchillo in the United States.Matanzas. the main influences are Ijesha and Arara. Oba Tola (Ibae). the Habaneros thought he was a bumpkin from the country. Atare is Lukumi for Guinea Pepper. It is my understanding that the strong influences in the Havana area are those of the Egbado/Egba and the Oyo. There is some Arara and Iyesa influences. There are other lines from Matanzas. When he came from Matanzas. I think the founder of that line was Oke Ewe (Ibae). Someone wrote that Coral came from Aurora Lamar. I have mispoken. in what used to called Dahomey. but I tend to think it came from one of her God children. to the west of main section of Yoruba country. Her nickname was "La China de Maximiliano" because she had a tattoo with that name on it. But as far as I know the Egbado/ Egba influence is the most prominent. My understanding is that La Pimienta was founded by Aurora Lamar.
such people es "Marieta Gomez" (Odedei). Oba Ecun/Omosayin. when he came to Habana this "Rama" was already stablish by other "elders"." Respectfully. such name as "EchuBi" (Pepa). Alabi. actually it begine with the late "OMI TOKE" (Susana Cantero) and a group of other well none priests of those time. Se Alafia ni Oba Olorun. Olorishas from two diferent Ramas can work together but respect and ceremonial acceptance is of utmost importance. but I will get back to you own this one later own. . the different Iles may perform things differently. Otogunwa. she wrapp Elewua in a red cloth and placed in the head in that manner (She was initiating Elewua at that time). by the late Ochun Funke. Se Alafia Ni! Olorisha greats. Originaly. and the Oba Miguel Ramos seem to have an incredible amount of authoritative information regarding Lukumi lineages. Ochun con Oro por Aganyu. Obatiero. Jose Urquiola (Echu Bi-Jose pata de Palo). Polinar Gonzalez and many many more that at this moment I don't remember their names. Octavo Sama and others had paved the way to what now is known as Rama or Lineage. David Brown. for example.This is really fascinating stuff. From there own she continued to do every initiation in that manner. Okantomi and forun. that particular branck took birth in the United State. Even within the larger Ramas such as my own. the Olorisha began receiving additional Orishas. Sim El. later own as the religion begine to grow and spread to Hanaba and other city them become to be the "Pimienta Rama" and also did not star with Algallu Tola (Aurora Lamar). pronunciation and the above has developed into different Ramas. La Pimienta. Ceremonial differences. Ferminita gomez. Ayai Latuan. As time past. It came about in the late 1960 or early 1970 when she did and Elewua and instead of placing Elewua in the head with the clay pot. Originally. At this moment I an not given this information in an orderly manner. By the way. This is why in some Ramas. such as Mama Monserate. was not the founder of los "Culos" Verdes". Obadimeji. such as who is who and wo did begine the first branches in cCuba and later own in the United State. Afolabi. the Olorisha received only his Patron Orisha and Eleggua. Thank you all and let Elewua and Chango always guide votre steps. and I believe that los Culos verdes where the first "Branch" (Rama stablish in Cuba). I will get back to you all in an orderly manner. Aganyu is done directly or in other Ramas. The Rama the "Trapito" did not existed in Cuba. Chango con Oro por Aganyu and in other Ramas. T-D. I think the rama that OTR is referring to as "Funke" is actually the line founded by "Efuche / Efunshe.
Pablo Mora. Cecilio. As soon as I get more significant information. was born much later.was my grandmother's assistant and she also assisted Susana in many Ocha ceremonies) the lifestory of Susana Cantero. Respectfully. In order to clarify this confusion. As far as I can remember from the many stories that I used to hear since I was a young girl. no? I also remember reading someplace that Susana Cantero. when Susana died in Cuba her daughter (who was not a believer in the Lukumi tradition) donated Susana's orishas to the museum in Cuba). Can you please tell us about Margarita Armenteros (Aina) and Tiburcia Sotolongo (Ochun Miwa)? I can't wait to read your next post. There are so many different "histories" out there. She was my grandmother's (Esperanzita la del Luna/Olomide) godmother and in turn my grandmother was Pancho Mora's godmother (he was my grandmother's cousin). "Polo Ocha Weye" (Ibae). I'll share it with everyone. Omi Toke (Ibae).-------------- Cecilio Perez Bendicion Oba Ecun: Did all of the ramas come from the Culo Verde? So Ña Belen Gonzalez "Apoto".he always said that Susana came from the Coral branch. . As a matter of fact my godfather in Ocha (also my uncle. Regards. It's my understanding and recollection that her branch was called la "Rama del Coral y el Encaje". was the granddaughter in Ocha of Efuche? This stuff is so confusing. I'll ask some elders here in New York and in Cuba (my aunt she has Ochun crowned for over 50 years . I come from the Susana Cantero branch. the God parent of Jose Urquiola. wasn't among the founders of Culo Verde? I thought Kainde Apolinar Gonzalez. he was called Papaito by everyone) was crowned Obatala (he died with 50 years of Ocha) by La Cubilla (she had Obatala crowned) and Susana Cantero was his Oyubona . T-D. I never heard that she came from the Pimienta branch.
It provides some history about his branch of Lukumi . Efuche Warikondo. Oddun Tawade. Maleque la grande y Maleque la chica. .com/index http://ilarioba. Ochailu. I have not had to time to look at the complete site. Ashakun. Tillako. www. Fathers. (TD. I have had the good fortune of having Willie Ramos & David Brown included among those who shared information with me). but from what I have read/seen so far. 1996 Ainayobo. I hope you all find it so as well.htm Many of the questions asked at the start of this thread have been answered very well. and Sisters : A friend sent me the web adress for Willie Ramos' website. Ramos for creating such a website.tripod.tripod.com/index. Obbilumi. Efuche Atiqueque. Aiworo.Millionario. Abbita. Thank you Mr. Awapitico. it is very well organized and informative. The question was asked: What are the different branches of Lukumi in Cuba ? A 1996 article in the Cuban publication "Prensa Latina" which included the Lucumi traditions in a discussion about religion in Cuba mentioned the following "ramas" or "branches" in Havana: Prensa Latina Especiale: Religion en Cuba. Aramito.thanks for including me in good company. Aldewaro. Imale. I can share some of what has been shared with me in my own pursuit of the answers to these questions in the hope that others will add more information or correct my mistakes.Olomide Back to top Mothers.ilarioba. but the info I have is not authoritative. It also has some pictures of some of his elders plus information about the Lukumi faith. Brothers. Oyatagun. Atun.
The question: Can priests from Pimienta work with those from Trapatito(sp?) or vice versa ? . For example "Millonarios" from Efunche Warikondo. Equally important is the fact that there were individual differences. which were based on group affiliation (Oyo. Those in her house were known for wearing coral beads so her omos (godchildren) were known as "La rama de coral". These later names are usually nicknames. The question: How did the words "pimienta". experience & odus that a specific elder had in their head was a part of their ashe & influenced some of the details of ritual. These Cabildos. a descendent of Efunche (Ochossi).Egba. etc. came from a variety of related groups . for example Susana Cantero (Omi Toki) was an omo Efunche. Oyo. In some cases the name of the sub-branch is more well known than the older/parent branch. Ijessa. The question: Was that difference based on the different regions of Nigeria that the original founders came from ? ( I understand that from one region of Nigeria to another there will be differences in patakis. get to be attached to those particular lines ? There were nicknames that became attached to a group. and other ramas. "trapatito". but their ashe will grow by following the ritual details of their rama (branch). Ijessa.) As I understand it there were some regional differences. and the ritual deatils passed to their omo (godchildren) that becomes part of the ashe of the rama. etc.) formed the seed bed from which many of the branches grew. songs. etc. Ife. The knowledge. "funke" etc. various "ramitas" or sub-branches have been formed. Ijebu.Descended from these. It was this ashe. etc. The godchildren will have their own knowledge & experience. There is at least one rama in the USA that got it's nickname in the USA. Egbado. The people that are now called "Yoruba" and who were called "Lucumi" in Cuba. Nago. the "Piranhas". Many of them joined cultural/religious organizations in Cuba called "Cabildos". This is evident also among orisha worshippers in Nigeria where there may be ritual differences from one neighborhood to another in the same town.
Fatunmishe. T-D. Alberta. Olo Oshun Odulachemi. Na Margarita Armenteros.iba ye. Olo Oshun I am always looking to learn more of this rama.1930's and form some of the reglas that we know as the "Regla de Ocha". I would be happy to hear more about the rama that I am a part of . Tiburcia Sotolongo. Ibae. Ibae Ade Yeri. Olochunde (ibae) was part of the Trapito house however I was told that she was not by someone else. cousin to PIMIENTA. Toni. Nilda Santiago. There may be those who differ with what I have written. Abelardo Becker. I can only list the lineage as I have been told. As for the branch of Pimienta & Trapito. & I welcome any additional information. Ibae Eni Osun. These 2 ramas in particular Pimienta. In general iyalorishas & babalorishas from different ramas can work together thanks (in part) to the the development of general rules "reglas" that crossed house boundaries. Oba Tola . & Trapito are both descended from Aurora Lamar. Ochun Miwa. Olo Oya Ade Okan. Oba Tola (ibae) do you have any information as to who was Josefina Beltran? What branch she belonged to? I was told that Josefina Beltran. Nilda Martinez.-) . Guiermina Montalvo. Aina Yobo.Yes.Pimienta. Ibae Oya Tacquade.. Alafia Sim El. Ibae Shango Lari. Sim-El Fatunmishe Se Alafia Ni Sim El. who are both descended from Aurora Lamar. Eni Osun.. Olo Obatala Oshun LaIbo. Olo Obatala and then my goddaughter. please add to it. Hi Okantomi . and OLU Forum: As a decendant of Ainayobo. even if it is different from what I have learned. Paula Martinez. so if anyone has any info. I was initiated in the TRAPITO house. especially of the traditions within the rama itself. These rules developed with the oriate system in Cuba in the 1920's . That was a great post. Candita Marquetti.
." Sorry I. Does anyone know the real name of this branch and or it's history? Would appreciate any info on this rama. Her goddaughter "La China" Silvestre. It's a common misconception that Na Belen Apoto initiated Jose Urquiola. Olochunde (ibae) was part of the Trapito house however I was told that she was not by someone else. Mpungo1 Greetings abures. Mpungo1 . Afolabi Mr Oshun asked: "I was told that Josefina Beltran. but I think I have heard her mentioned by people from the rama Coral (Susana Cantero's rama). Does anyone know about this rama? Some of the elders are Rosa Maria Quintana. don't have any sure information about Josefina Beltran. but she didn't. They perform the ceremony at the river and bring back the water to the Ile to wash the iyawo. Some of the elders are "Rosa Maria Quintana" ibae & a lady that is still alive in Havana called Chango Lade. ibae and Chango Lade. Eshubi. Thanks.I just wanted to pop in here to give you a little info regarding your post. Thanks. Oshun Miwa did. Talk to you soon honey. They bring the water back from the river to wash th iyawo. Greetings Abures.. There is a rama in havana that does not take the iyawo to the river. In Havana there is also a Rama that does not take the Iyawo to the rio.
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