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CIA Files

Stanislav Lunev – Defector reveals Russia’s secret war plans
Interview with Barry Farber

fragment:

B: New kinds of weapons seem to be coming out of Russia, here is a new one on me, maybe
a lot of other people, what is a seismic weapon and was is the Russian government doing to
produce them?

L: This is actually artificial earthquake, which could be generated by special devices, which
increase natural seismic waves, which are under our (Earth’s) surface and explode like
natural earthquake with all following circumstances. Its actually, this weapon development
was in place for about more than 20 years and in the mid of 80s there have been several
fields tests of this weapons and maybe you heard this Armenian city Spitak was totally
destroyed.
B: Good lord, dont tell me that was a Soviet test?

L: It was an accidental explosion.

B: That was an artificialy induced earthquake?

L: It was accidental explosion of earthquake which was generated by the test of seismic
weapons.

B: What about Russians production of chemical and biological weapons?

L: If i understand rightly, they continue this production, but most important that they accelerated
research and development for the creation of new type of biological and chemical
weapons and not only this weapons steps because they are working very hard for
low frequency radio waves weapons, for laser weapons and for other types of future
weapons systems.

full text:

BF: I‘m Barry Farber...When you ask somebody when he was in the service, he says 1941,
you say oh, oh, he was at war, if he says, I was in in 1946, then you know he was enjoying
occupation duty in some place like Germany or Japan, England or Okinawa, when somebody
says, he was in the service in the 1960s early 70s, you say oh, oh, he was in Vietnam, but by
mid-70s he was in the peace time army. When you ask a russian spy, when he defected, and
he says 1992, you figure, oh well the cold war was over. Not so fast, not so fast. This can only
be radio, this can‘t be television, because there is a price on Stan Lunevs head. Stan Lunev,
colonel in the russian intelligence setup, defected after the cold war was allegedly over. Colonel
Lunev, welcome to these procedings, we cannot show your face, but we can certainly hear
your voice and your message. When you defect, a top russian agent, you were debriefed by
the CIA, all listeners right now, it is as though you are sitting in a CIA briefing because you will
hear exactly what the CIA and other American intelligence agencies have heared from col. Stan
Lunev. First of all again, welcome to America.
SL: Thank you
B: I would have said welcome to the free world, but we thought Russia was free in 1992.
L: Thank you, Barry, but you know to operate information which we have from liberal American
press, its not totaly correct, because cold war, we need to undersatnd what is it, it was
confrontation between two great military powers and fortunately this confrontation does not exist
in the same form, which it existed for about 40 years, but look around instead of friendly Russia
or somekind of mystical partner China, just now America is facing to strategic military alliance
between so called democratic Russia and totalitarian China, with tens of thousands of Russian
nuclear war heards and actually unlimited numbers of Chinese ground forces, this alliance is
much more dangerous than it has been in time of you already said cold war, plus now Russia
and China are now very active in establishemnt of partnership, strategic cooperation with such
countries, like North Korea, Vietnam, Iran, Irak, Syria, Libya, Cuba, actually Venezuela, and in
the nearest time, if American politicans will not take some kind of appropriate policy according
this area, america will face to the coalition of powers, extremely hostile to the United States and
to the western civilisation.
B: The United States borders Canada and there is all kind of cooperation between the United
States and Canada, that doesn‘t threaten Russia or China, now turn the page, China and
Russia have a very long border, what evidence do we have, that there is anything threatening to
us going on between Russia and China
L: First of all, American people are not informed, that confrontation between former Soviet
Union and China, which was based on ideological difficulties and differences, between two
communist parties, doesn‘t exist anymore. Yes, in the 50s and 60s, there have been several
open military conflicts between two countries, but they were based on ideological differences
between communist party of Soviet Union and Chinese communist party. After communist
party in Russia was removed from power, there is no ideological problems. This countries are
developing very close, economical, political and military cooperation during last ten years, and
until now they reach level of strategic military alliance, which could not be directed to nowhere,
it would be directed against America and American friends and allies worldwide, and this is real
danger for the United States national security.
B: Is this your interpretation or are you aware as a former Russian spy that there is a deliberate,
premeditated, forward moving, forward marching attempt, to take on the United States and
destroy the United States.
L: Barry, you know how many billions of dollars Americans spent for the support of Russian
democracy and free market economy, and of course American people, American taxpayer, they
are expecting something in return from Russia, but its not point of view of Russian government,
because Russian government spent all this money received from the United States and the
west in total for their own purposes, deposited at private accounts in western banks, and they
tried to explain Russian people why just now Russian people living so bad, and they repeat
history just like that, they told Russian people, by Russian government propaganda -you know,
that from last month there is no any more independent press in Russia, everything is under
control of government- and they are telling to Russian people, that they are living so bad, not
because of corrupted government, but because of foreign enemy, Russian propaganda tried to
deliver to Russian people idea that this foreign enemy which already destroyed former Soviet
Union, destroyed Yugoslavia, organises separatist tension in Russian northern Caucasus, and
next step this foreign enemy would like to destroy mother Russia itself, they fix the fingers at the
United States and American friends and allies, first of all by NATO organisation.
B: Here you are Stan Lunev, first of all was it a difficult decision to defect, or did you intent to
defect as soon as you saw your opening and bang, the opening came in 1992.
L: Barry, it was a difficult decision, it was very difficult decision, and of course it was not like,
just like that. But because you know my biography, that when I was young, I been a student of
the ? school of military political academy in Moscow and I, like other students of this academy,
had the privilige to work in the archives of Soviet Communist Party and when I worked in
these archives on my dissertation, I found out, that very well known leaders of international
communism and socialism, they were actually insane, they were not normal people, I saw a lot
of papers with hand written notes, when Lenin, Stalin, Zinoviev, Kamenev, Trotzky they sacrifice
millions of Russian people, for mystical ideologial, which could not be realised, ideas, and after
this I didn‘t work for any kind of ideology, I worked for my country only, until I came to the United
States, where I found for myself that Soviet propaganda lied to me, to other Soviet people about
America, American way of live, American society, about everything, so I changed my mind of
course not in 1 day, in 2 days, but in some time my mind was dramatically changed.
B: What are the 5 most important things, that you had to tell, not just the CIA but now the
American people, about your experience, let‘s do this like a news room, which I‘m sure would
please the CIA, if they had it laid out formed, the 5 most important messages that Stan Lunev,
Russian spy, now on our side, brings to the American people.
L: Barry, I would like little bit continue previous question and answer, because when I came to
America, I remember this date, it was August 18, 1988, when I fly by Aeroflot flight from New
Foundland to Washington D.C., and Soviet propaganda explained to me and to other Soviet
people, that America as a leader of international imperialism, is living very different way of live
than Soviet union...
B: Was that your first taste of the west 1988?
L: Yes, and they explained us, that in the United States only few people living very good life and
other people living very bad and need to work very hard, to support these rich people to become
more and more rich, and when I fly from New Foundland to Washington, I found that a lot of
lights are coming from the ground and I asked my neighbor please put yourself on my place,
american people living very bad, they need to work very hard, they need to save everything,
so my question was, is it reflection lights from solar battery or something like this ones, and
for my surprise my neighbor who fly here several times, he told me no, its not solar batteries,
they are swimming pools. If you can see thousands of swimming pools only from one window
of one airplane, so American people are not living so bad like Soviet propaganda told us, and
it was some kind of eyeopener, that in the United States, really there is a limited number of
very rich people, there is number of people who are living very bad, but between them there is
huge middle class, who live in this country not bad, and I would like to say, that major treasure
of America is this middle class, and this middle class needs to unterstand, that as a base of
fortress for the western democracy, this class has to be as a developed as a very important and
valuable for the future and of course, just now is very big point, national security of this country,
you know whats happening to this system during last 8 years, its not totaly destroyed, but a lot
of problems, just now is very good time try to rebuilt this security systems.
B: You mean the 8 years of the Clinton administration?
L: Yes of course, it is very well known, it is necessary to rebuild American national security, to
rebuilt American armed forces. Actually it is necessary to open eyes for all people about what
is really going on between American politicans, whom they can believe, whom they can not
believe, especially for their own future development, and of course to continue some kind of
wishes for American people, for me is sometimes extremely difficult, to speak about future of
this great people, because I‘m not so long time belong to American society but America is great
country and American people is the greatest people in the world.
B: I‘m a little bit surprised to hear you talk about how Soviet propaganda worked on you, I
thought Soviet propaganda was for the little people on the collective farms in Krivoi Rog and
Veliki Luki, you were the highest ranking spy ever to defect, I thought they let you know the real
score, and didn‘t try to give you Soviet propaganda.
L: Barry, unfortunateley, in former Soviet Union, every thing was under influence of government
propaganda, and of course when my former associates like me were informed about real
digits according American economy, development, American military machine, everything was
explained by propaganda, that America is a leader of international imperialism exploitating its
own people and other countries specially to become a more richful people, who are in limited
number of extremely rich people, so everything was under influence and propaganda and
everything was explained by communist party according to its communist party doctrine.
B: The gardener comes to visit you, he knows what he has to do, mow the lawn, bloom the
flowers, the electrician comes, he knows what he has to do, check your wiring. What does a spy
do? Did you land and then go right to the Soviet embassy in Washington?
L: No, its very big difference, because spies, real spies in this country, they authorized by
the Russian government for the recruitment of people who having access to the secrets of
the United States of America, specially to use this secrets in the war preparations against
America, but its not limited only spy business, because my former agency is workling like a
great system, space satellites, more than 100 hundred space satellites are snaking all over
the United States all over the year the same way as over all American friends and allies
trying to penetrate through so called electronic secrets of America and American friends, they
are supported by navy intelligence and reconnaissance, you know how many Russian so
called scientific ships just now are snaking round American coasts and following American
submarines, and if you remember 3 years ago, American pilot was blinded by laser radiation
or laser weapon, fired from this scientific so called ship, and Navy and Air Force intelligence
and reconnaissance, huge radio and radiotechnical intelligence stations world wide are working
together to penetrate through American secrets, because America is recognized leader in the
world for the development of new technologies and all area connected with military research
and development.
B: You were over there when the Soviet Union disappeared, you were already here, what kind
of word did you get from home? Hey we are not communist any more, come back and choose a
new profession, or did they say, look we are going to pretend we are not what we were, but stay
right where you are and keep on spying?
L: Barry, its exactly question, I asked my field office chief, after disintegration of former Soviet
Union, when America military cargo planes delivered humanitarian aid to Russia, to support
Russian people, to feed Russian people, by the way from that time the most favorite food for
ordinary Russians is Bush-legs, bush = president Bush and legs = chicken legs, delivered by
American military, specialy to help Russians in a very difficult winter of 1991 and 92 and the
same time, when America began to supply money and other help and assistance I myself asked
my field office chief, why we continue this spy business, and he told me, that he himself would
like to send special letter to my former agency leaders and request them to change our activity
against America, to make that not so hostile like before, but to make it more friendly, like friendly
countries are spying against America, and he sent this letter to Moscow and in few days we
received strong message signed by my former agency director general, who said us, by other
words „shut your mouth“ and continue and increase spy activity against America, but make it
much more covered and vigilant. This is an answer, and about few weeks later we received
message from former Russian president Yeltsin who requested my former agency and KGB,
that time it was renamed as SWR, to increase our spy activity against America and request
for all Russian embassy in every country to support intelligence agencies in their penetration
through American secrets.
B: We have always been very skilled when people like you fall into our lap, when you let the
Americans know that you were a high ranking, the highest ranking Russian spy and you wanted
to defect, tell us what you knew, did they welcome you, did they treat you, I want you to judge
the CIA and the FBI on the way they handled you.
L: Barry, its very difficult questions, because from what standards I can describe process
of handling, and yes, I saw faces of people, who briefed and debriefed me many times that
some of them didn‘t believe me, and when I continue to stand on the same point as before,
they began to check and verify my information from other sources and some times some kind
of pleasure to see faces which looked at you very suspicious how dramatically these faces
changes, after they received information which supported my information, so I cannot say that
I had some kind of problems in dealing with the United States special services representatives,
no. Because I came to this country especially to help this country and I‘m actually trying to do
everything what is possible for me to support this country from my position and for me process
of handling is not so important than point that I can do something for this country.
B: What about your family in Russia?
L: No, my family is with me here.
B: So there was no reason for you not to defect once you got the opportunity.
L: Yes and actually, if I wouldn‘t have a chance to stay in this country with my family, maybe my
decision would be very different.
B: Part of what you‘ve told us off microphone and written is absolutely bone marrow curdling,
you talk about the nature of the likely war against the United States. Get into that little bit,
assassination, poisoning of water.
L: Barry, its only few details of Russian military plans for the future war against America,
because many scenarios were designed by Soviet and Russian general staff for the future war
against American, but in summary, these plans look like very special war operations against
America and American friends and allies, which will be in place not so much by regular missile
and nuclear strike, but will begin by special operation forces commandos which will come here
during peace time very well in advance before real war would be in place with very special
missions, in few hours, maybe days before regular missile and nuclear strike will hit territory of
the United States this Russian commandos need to destroy American communication system,
power system, assassin American military political leaders, who are in the chain of military
command, especially to establish situation of panic and chaos in this country before regular
missile nuclear strike will hit the territory of the United States. And for this mission they could
be equiped not only by conventional weapons, special communication systems, ammunition,
but tactical portable nuclear devices which had to be storaged on American territory very well in
advance and I am sure that some of this tactical nuclear devices were located on the territory of
the United States until recently.
B: Right this minute, you think there are Russian arms supplies nuclear backpack nuclear
weapons hidden on American territory?
L: Yes, and actually ist not big secret for military that these devices could be deployed in this
country during peace time, and according to my information some of these devices were located
on American soil, like on the territory of American friends and allies. But what was major point
for my book publication in 1998 is specially to inform Russian military commanders that their
military plans are not so big secret any more and maybe to push Russian military commanders
to remove these tactical nuclear devices from American soil. I hope that they remove it but I am
not sure that they remove it and according to these military plans in few hours before real war
would be in place, Russian commandos need to pick up this weapon systems and delivered
for the places of the operational use, you know, that after regular nuclear missile launch in few
minutes American president, vice president and other people in the chain of military command
they would be on the way for evacuation and in few minutes they would be on the board of Air
Force One, Two, Three and others, so Russian commandos need to intercept them on the way
of evacuations and eliminated and specially to destroy American military chain of command.
B: This is frightening and I wanna point out, that there are so called contingency plans, there are
plans in the Pentagon right now, is to what America would do if airplans from Costa Rica would
bomb Finnland, political science fiction! Are these Russian intentions or just contingency plans
to make work for officials, draw up fantasies and scenarios.
L: Good question, because if it would be only intentions, or some kind of war games they would
not deploy weapon systems in foreign countries during peace time very well in advance before
the war, they would not train special operations commandos which are coming here to the us
during peacetime specially to know exactly what they will do in time, when war will come to this
country, and of course they would not deploy new types of weapons actually everywhere where
its possible designed specially to destroy America, you know that just now, some American
politicians of capitol hill, they try to dispute president Bush plans for national missile defence,
just now they try to prevent development of national missile defence for America, in time when
Russia just now were deploying third regiment of strategic nuclear missiles, its name is Topol-
M, which were designed specially to penetrate national missile defence if it would be built some
time.
B: Hold that point, we will continue on the other side with Russian military preparations,
beginning with Topol-M.
--
B: I‘m Barry Farber and across our Newsmax microphones, the highest ranking Russian spy
ever to defect, the highest ranking Russian military spy, underline military, his name is Stan
Lunev, defected in 1992 like an alarmclock he is going off and our objective is to let him ring
and not to turn it off, Stan Lunev, the Russia that we are told is bankrupt, no longer communist,
democratic, in need of help, greatful to the west for help, no threat to anybody, the soldiers have
to beg, the soldiers that where left over in East Germany sold their weapons for food, thats not a
very frightening picture.
L: Yes, but we keep in mind, that Russian military arsenal consists from two major parts,
strategic arsenal and conventional, and in time, when Russian government cannot affort to
develop its conventional forces, its pay very close attention on the development of strategic
arsenal, strategic nuclear missiles, strategic submarines, strategic bombers, and this is
connected with Russian military plans, which question we already touched before, because
according this military plans, after strikes of Russian commandos it would be massive attack of
strategic nuclear weapons against America and against American friends and allies, which will
destroy actually American infrastructure, and if in time of former Soviet Union Russian military
command plan some kind of invasion, occupation of Europe, of the United States, just now
they don‘t even think about this ones, because during this decade, Russian strategic nuclear
weapons was developed so much, that after this nuclear missile strike it would be nothing to
occupy, and of course they do not pay very close attention over development of conventional
forces, but they continue development of strategic weapons.
B: Wouldn‘t they want to take a price like America intact and not destroyed?
L: Actually, I don‘t want it, i don‘t like it at all, but this is real military plans, and if these plans
would be realised, America would be totaly destroyed, of course Russia will have retaliated
strike, but they are preparing themselves, in time when American politicians only discuss
American plans for national missile defense, Russia already has ist own national missile
defense.
B: Russia already has, when it gets angry because we say we wanna built?
L: And russia doesn‘t like to provide the same capabilities to America, because its already
has its own national missile defense, which consists not only from space based and ground
based command and control radars, missile interceptors, Barry, you can imagine that Russia
deployed nuclear warhead missile interceptors more than 10 years ago, nuclear warheads
with several megatones of power, you can imagine whats happen in space, if this interceptor
warhead will exploded, actually the whole space would be under influence of this explosion
and very small number of retaliated strike missiles will reach Russian territory and according to
your question, if its only ideas, if its only dreams, but in time when Russia deployed just now a
second generation of nuclear missile interceptors, its continue very actively, so called passive
steps, they are still constructing huge bunkers, under Moscow, under St. Petersburg, very
long distance underground communication system in Ural mountain, just now they continue
construction of huge underground bunker, which could be by the size of Washington D.C.
beltway, especially to save government elite in time of retaliative strike.
B: A bunker under the Ural mountains as big as Washington D.C.?
L: Yes, the same size like Washington D.C. beltway!
B: Topol-M, that is not a new Russian toothpaste?
L: No, its strategic nuclear missile based on mobile launcher, most important that it based on
the truck, on the heavy truck, which nonstop is on its way of combat patrol, which makes this
truck extremely diffcult to detect and to destroy and this is some kind of base for the future
Russian strategic missile development, in time when American military they simply cannot affort
to have the same system, ita extremely expensive, they deploying third regiment of this missiles
which are sneaking in Siberian forests, in Ural mountains and ready to launch strategic missile
against America, every second.
B: You say, it is designed to penetrate any missile defence we might have?
L: Yes, and its not my words, its Russian officials, open public statements.
B: Take us back to the kindergarten of modern warfare, explain the difference between strategic
and tactical weapons, and give us Russian size in each.
L: It depends... characteristics of these weapons are based on the range of flight for strategic or
tactical nuclear missiles, you know that, tactical they are very limited, its about 100, 300 miles
only, strategic it means, that these missiles can reach target at any part of our planet. And of
course power of nuclear warheads are very different, and if tactical from several kilotons would
be very different, which consist from megatons, and of course much more differences in ? in
equipment, and of course protection of these weapons, because to find out, where strategic
Russian weapons are just now, its not very difficult, and its possible to detect from space,
from Air Force reconaissance and counterintelligence, but very few people know that actually,
Russian military command, they don‘t have clear idea, how many tactical nuclear weapons they
do have like warheads for tactical missiles, air bombs, artillery shells, mines, nuclear mines, and
others, because in time of former Soviet Union these tactical nuclear weapons where located on
the territory of Russian military districts, after the USSR disintegration, so called first echelon,
or border military district, just now are on the territory of other, non Russian newly independent
states and unfortunately documentation how many exactly tactical nuclear weapons and their
location before the USSR disintegration disappeared in 1991 and 1992 when Russian military
command began to find out, how many tactical nuclear weapons they need to remove back to
Russia.
B: Isn‘t America paying to Russia to destroy weapons like that?
L: Yes, America pay Russian government sufficient sum of money for their destruction, but
as usual all this money which are going to Russia, they are used by Russian government by
their own and major part of this money if not all of this money, they simply disappeared, but
before disappearance, this money are going to Russian military industrial complex and used by
Russian government for the development of Russian nuclear weapons of the next generation.
B: I can see a father sending money for a child in college and saying spend it for books, spend
it for tutoring, and the father doesn‘t realize how much goes for whiskey or drugs or whatever. I
cannot imagine the United States government giving Russia money to destroy weapons and not
having American observers right there to watch the destruction.
L: Yes, its very good example, and all this billions of dollars which came to Russia from 1991
actually disappeared at private accounts of corrupted Russian elite and according agreements
between president Yeltsin government and Clinton/Gore-team, Americans didn‘t have any right
to control ways where this money are going inside Russia.
B: I remember when the Soviet Union collapsed, a year later, somebody on my radio show,
told me, they are still making nuclear submarines, and my impression was how do you like that
their communications are bad, they just havent got around to cancel everything yet, now our
side must know, that what you are saying is true, if they don‘t know everything you know, they
know some of the things you know. How can America keep up this pretence of „we are friends“
and „Russia is a new democracy“ when they see this weaponry, that has the ways and means
to destroy us.
L: I think its question for American politicians which do not inform American people about whats
really going on in the same countries like Russia, like China and other countries with traditional
anti-American sentiments and yes, you are absolutely right, when this money began to come
to Russia you know that actually its not my idea, but this is information from Russia that exactly
this time Russia had the chance to build the largest in the world and largest for Russia nuclear
cruiser Peter the Great, and the same time Russia deploy new generation of strategic nuclear
ballistic missile submarines they developed new generation of attack submarine, and actually
they began to built –you know stealth technology- but they began to build navy ships made
by stealth technology, not only Topol-M but you can find out dozent of example how Russian
government developing its weapons not only nuclear, but chemical, biological and other types
of futuristic weapons with the help and assistance from money they received from the Unted
States and other western countries.
B: The psychology is extremely interesting, do you have in Russia the legend, do you know
what I‘m taking about, when I talk about the goose that lays the golden egg, do you have that
fable in Russia where there is a goose that lays the golden eggs and one man got real greedy
and decided to cut the goose open and get all the golden eggs at once and of course, he killed
the goose that would no longer lay golden eggs. It seems to me that Russia would not want to
destroy the United States, that Russia would want to keep us producing golden eggs.
L: Barry, this is psychology of normal people, but Russian government which is extremely
corrupted and working not so much for Russian people but for itself, they have very different
psychology and they think in absolutely different way, they believe that if they will have more
than enough strategic nuclear weapons and other weapons of mass destrcution, they will dictate
their will to western countries and instead of you already said several billion dollars for Russian
government as a help and assistance, they will demand hundreds of billions, and if they will
have more than enough power, of course they will extort much more money, than can do it now.
B: New kinds of weapons seem to be coming out of Russia, here is a new one on me, maybe
a lot of other people, what is a seismic weapon and was is the Russian government doing to
produce them?
L: This is actually artificial earthquake, which could be generated by special devices, which
increase natural seismic waves, which are under our (Earth’s) surface and explode like
natural earthquake with all following circumstances. Its actually, this weapon development
was in place for about more than 20 years and in the mid of 80s there have been several
fields tests of this weapons and maybe you heard this Armenian city Spitak was totally
destroyed.
B: Good lord, dont tell me that was a Soviet test?
L: It was an accidental explosion.
B: That was an artificialy induced earthquake?
L: It was accidental explosion of earthquake which was generated by the test of seismic
weapons.
B: What about Russians production of chemical and biological weapons?
L: If i understand rightly, they continue this production, but most important that they accelerated
research and development for the creation of new type of biological and chemical
weapons and not only this weapons steps because they are working very hard for
low frequency radio waves weapons, for laser weapons and for other types of future
weapons systems.
B: Is there anybody on our side Col. Lunev, saying, yeah we see what they are doing, we are
going keep on pretending we are friends, they think they are fooling us, but they are not fooling
us and we are covering them and we are keeping taps on them and we think we are at least
even or ahead, is there any attitude like that that you see in American leadership?
L: I can tell you in 80s and early beginning of 90s, American politicians they keep very close eye
on what was going on in former Soviet Union and in beginning of so called independent Russia,
independent I don‘t know from what. But under previous administration I think that American
politicians were much more busy by their political games and instead of watching out whats
going on in Russia, they did something different just now I can see, that new American policy is
developing and I hope that president Bush jun. will fulfill his preelection promises and will pay
very close attention over American national security and situation in countries which are not
so friendly to the United States. I remember my briefings and meetings with representatives of
different American special services after my defection. And I can tell you that between them
there are a lot of highly trained and very good prepared professionals and I know exactly that
they informed American political leaders about whats going on in Russia, but why American
politicians didn‘t pay any attention of these reports I think is questions for American politicians.
B: One weapon that Russia doesn‘t have that it used to is communist party members and
sympathisers and fellow travelers helping Moscow sell Washington whatever they wanna sell to
Washington in other words you don‘t have that ideological hammer any more to make dance in
the American thinking.
L: And this is very fortunate that communist party is not dominate in Russia anymore and I hope
that it will never return back to power in Russia, but keep in mind that there are some other
countries which we have communist regimes and these regimes are very actively developing so
called leftists parties, organisation in the United States and in western countries, like Chinese
did it for a long period of time.
B: There is an attitude in America that says, a country must be communist in order to be
dangerous.
L: We can say so.
B: But Russia is proofing that‘s not true?
L: Because communist ideology is a very powerful tool in government and political elite of any
country, but in Russia which been under communism domination more than 70 years it has
some kind of immunität against returning back of communism ideology and you know that 10
years ago I remember exactly when Russian people they looked at the United States as some
kind of example for their democratic development, for free market economy in Russia and I
remember that majority they were exited about American way of life but unfortunately russian
government during this 10 yerars they made eveything to discredit American and western
democratic values and just now more and more Russians are looking at American not as a
friend and not as an example.
B: The American government and the American people join the Russian government and the
Russian people in morning the loss of your nuclear submarine the Kursk at the bottom of the
Barentsea all crewmembers lost, what was the Kursk doing?
L: Actually Kursk took part in Navy exercises, before deployment of this nuclear submarine in
mediterranian where some Russian military ships need to be deployed as a part of Russian
president Putins plans to restore Russian international military position and influence, but in time
of these exercises, you remember this tragedy when these people died, unfortunalety for these
people, Russian military usualy they very hurry in doing something and contrary to all Navy
regulations, they demuted to test new Russian torpedos in time of field exercises and in time
when one torpedo had to launch submarine its exploded and detonated explosion of warheads
of other torpedos and cruise missiles so it was a real, real, real desaster.
B: What kind of torpedo has Russia developed?
L: They name it superspeed or supersonic torpedo with speed extremely high and actually like
any other weapon systems it was designed to kill American navy ships and American until now
just now do not have defense system from these torpedos.
B: Do we have a torpedo similar that will go as fast.
L: But not so fast, not so fast and until now American military they cannot afford to develop the
same weapon system like they cannot affort to have very many Russian weapons which just
now are deployed in Russian military.
B: A great American film director from England original, Alfred Hitchcock said, if there is a gun in
act one, it is gonna go off in act three. You‘ve talked about the Russian leadership viewing war
with America as inevitable. Its a slide difference between viewing war as inevitable and planing
war. Which side of that line do you think Russia is on at the moment.
L: Yes its very, very big difference between these two points but in time when you do have
a lot of evidences that Russians are preparing their military machine for this future war
against America and morrow victorious war, its not only blablabla, ist realistic plans which are
developing just now in real live.
B: This is the end of part two, stay right were you are, we will begin part three and learn what it
is like to be a spy and what it means not just for the spy but to us.
--
B: Im Barry Farber and to call him a master spy is not to inflate his importance he is Col. Stanley
Lunev, he is the highest ranking military spy ever to defect from Russia, he defected in 1992, he
still travels the world consultant to the CIA to other American intelligence entities and to other
governments. Good question how can you know, your information is ten years old, how can you
be sure its updated and no longer distorted.
L: Barry, actually my information connected with history its one story but I try to keep records
over developments which are under way currently, and you know that really to be a spy it
means to penetrate through the secrets of hostile country, by recruitment with access to these
secrets, you know that I worked in the United States under civilian cover of TASS and news
agency correspondent and when I worked in this country I found for myself that in America
you can find American secrets not only by regular spy business but by research in American
press and sometime in American newspapers first of all in liberal press you can find top
secret American documents and other onformation and of course during last years after my
defection I use this same methods try to find out whats realy going on in Russia and sometimes
successfully.
B: In other words you don‘t have to do much digging in America, we give it away.
L: Yes, exactly like just now I am searching Russian press speaking with Russian people,
watching Russian TV, and between lines I can find a lot of information like I did when I was spy.
B: The cover that they gave you was as a journalist, does that mean we got to suspect every
Russian journalist here being a spy?
L: No, but I can tell you that according former Soviet communist party politburo special decision
between all Russian official positions in foreign countries 33% belong to my former agency
for military intelligence 33% belong for former KGB, just now SWR, and only 33% are so
called green people who came to this country after they signed special paper for cooperation
with GRU or former KGB, so you can make your own account how many green people and
how many spies you have here between journalists, diplomats, specialists which are official
representatives of Russia in this country.
B: Can you take us to a day in the life of a spy, is it a nine to five job?
L: No, its 24 hours, maybe sometimes 25 hours per day. And for me it was one of the most
difficult operational cover, because I need to spend not less 50% of my time working as a
corresopondent to specially keep American special services disinformed about my real life in
this country and 50% are directly used for the spy business, but you know, for journalists its not
very difficult to mix these positions, because actually, journalism is very close to spy business.
B: You were assigned to recurit Americans to provide information, did you succedd, are there
people spying for Russia who you recruited.
L: Actually I was authorized for the recruitment of people, because not all of my former
associates or members of KGB field office are authorized for the recruitment, only most
experienced and most trusted people are authorized for the recruitment and of course when
I sneaked around my operational area, its Washington D.C., and established contact with
different people, first question was, is it a real candidat for possible recruitment or maybe this
person specially asigned for American counter intelligence to be like a double agent and of
course, some times you never know, you approach somebody and according special procedure
inform Mosocw about this contact immediately and Moscow requested you to stop all contact
with this person already is under attention of former KGB or other special services. Its very
typical in spy business, that some agents are working for two or three or sometimes more
intelligence agencies.
B: We have an expression in english, popping the question, very tense moment, will you
marry me, may I have the job, coach am I gonna be the quarterback, popping the question is
a very difficult and interesting writter passage, how did you pop the question, you here you are
a Russian journalist, at the outset a Soviet journalist and then you transition into a Russian
journalist because you were here working when communism fell you were working as a Russian
spy for almost 3 years after communism fell, what do you do, you go up to an American you
think has information and say look would you like to spy for the Soviet Union how did you do
this?
L: Barry, you ask me two very big questions, professional questions, and keep in mind, when
you are working in this country under cover of journalist you have a chance to go to different
briefings, press conferences, presentations everywhere and you are not looking for people
who will tell you that I am ready to spy for you, if I will found this guy I will found double agent
I don‘t need it and I don‘t want it. But if somebody will continue contacts with me with a person
who has very clear foreign accent and in my time who was Soviet journalist it means, that this
person want‘s something from me or needs something from me, and it depends from level of my
training and expertise to understand why this person continue contact with me to find out reason
and it would be the reason for cooperation and for recruitment.
B: Where you required to pay, or where you authorized to pay Americans for information?
L: if I developed our relations to the level of agent and handler, of course I was authorized to
pay for this person.
B: Did you ever succeed in getting an American to that level?
L: Keep in mind my operational cover TASS news agency correspondent and if I receive
information from person and I have to pay him for this information, for me it was very easy to
do, because I explained my contact that I wrote a story on the base of information I received
from that person, get honorarium and I do not feel myself comfortable if I will not share this
honorarium with my friend, if its going on up to 10.000$ its not big problem, but if more, its big
problem, and you need to reinforce reason why do you pay him, but you asked me another
question. It was in time of former Soviet Union and usually first question I get from my contacts,
where are you from, I can tell you, more than 99% of people who I contacted, I never met
anymore, they disappeared and I developed contacts with people of only 1 person of only 1%
from all contacts I established, just now, situation changed dramatically, and if somebody asked
me, where are you from, and I will tell him I’m from Russia, he will say, wow, friend, partner,
how to make business together, lets go for a lunch, just now its much more easy, much more
easy, than it was 10 years ago.
B: How would you describe the success of russia in penetrating the American government, CIA,
FBI, State Department, Defense Department, etc.
L: Barry you know, during last couple of years, American public was very widly informed about
Chinese penetration through the American society, but I can tell you that Chinese intelligence
compared to my former agency ist somekind of kids game, because they do not have
experience like we had, they do not equipped like my agency by electronic and other technical
methods, they do not have space intelligence, they do not have so much support like Russian
intelligence have in its penetration through America for many, many years, and actually, you
know that during last several years, some Russian agencies were disclosed like Aldrich ames,
Speeds Nicolson, Mr. Handson last one, all of them worked not for my former agency, they
worked for former KGB and KGB they can affort to recruit people, who walk in, but Russian
military intelligence, my former agency, which is working for the future war is extremely careful
in handling of these people and we recruit people by different way.
B: Even though you defected, you have that pride in your unite, you say you ran rings around
the Chinese, when it comes to penetrating America and stealing our secrets and you are even
proud that you did even better than your allie, the KGB.
L: Yes, I‘m proud, but I have to deliver to American people, my point that Russian military
intelligence, which is absolutely unknown in this country, is much more powerful and much
more experienced than former KGB intelligence and operating in this country much more
aggressively than any other intelligence. You asked me about level of Russian intelligence
penetration, I don‘t know by what reason but Russian former president Yeltsin in his book which
was published last year, Midnight Diaries, he openly said that he was informed by Russian
intelligence about Monica Levinsky case about possible development and impeachment of
the American president, in about two years before it became known to the American congress
and American people. You know how carefully people prefer to keep their own private secrets
compared to their government and their country secrets and if russian intelligence penetrated
through this secret which was known only for a couple of guys inside white house, its very clear
evidence of Russian intelligence penetration through American political establishment.
B: Did you find many Americans looking for you wanting to make money by giving away
American secrets?
L: Excellent question, Barry, no, because American people, very good people and very
proud people and patriotic people and between fellow Americans, there are only few, maybe
hundreds, maybe thousands of people who in their mind are not strongly opposed to sell their
country secrets for money they need as an extra. How many spies of course I cannot pretent
to know, but couple of years ago, Washington metropolitan FBI field office executive in charge
of national security has said openly that only his office, its only his office in Washington DC
area, was investigated two hundred criminal cases with foreign espionage envolvement, usually
its only top of the iceberg, means, thousands of spies are working in this country, against this
country.
B: You know the FBI has made so many mistakes, likely the CIA in sort of out of the spotlight,
but I‘m thinking that incredible dismal job did with a defector back in the days of the Soviet
Union, was his name Yurchenko, his CIA handler trusted him so much, he let him go the
bathroom in a Georgetown restaurant and he jumped out of the restaurant, got into a cab, went
to the Soviet embassy and redefected. Is that typical of the CIA, did they do a better job with
you?
L: First of all it happened in the mid of 80s, yes with KGB Colonel Yurchenko, and after this I
remember it was serial of his interview to Russian central television, to newspaper magazines,
and Russian authorities, they said that Yurchenko took part in special operation, to penetrate
through American intelligence community on the point of how American intelligence handling
defectors and other people in their responsibility, so KGB pretend to say that it was their
operation, CIA made a lot of mistakes, connected with Yurchenko case and later they changed
their practice dramatically, in my own case its absolutely different story, and actually in my
situation I received more help from this people, that obstacles I need to overcome.
B: The Israeli intelligence agency the Mossad works closely with the CIA, thats no secret. After
the fall of communism, I thought that... you are shaking your head, no the Mossad does not
work with the CIA?
L: I can not say that they are working together, they are working together in areas which
are important for exactly mutual interests of both countries, but you know how active Israel
intelligence is working not only in hostile countries but in friendly countries and we had many
examples of Israel intelligence activity in this country like worldwide, which could not be
considering that they are very friendly to the United States and Israel is a very, very experienced
and very respected intelligence service, they have a lot of possibilities and capabilities to
assist America much more, than they do it now, to accelerate this tendency and to develop
responsibilities ? is vital for American intelligence community.
B: I trust the CIA at least to know this, if Russia is supposed to be a friend and if Russian
intelligence agencies are supposed to be friendly to ours and working together least as much
as the Israeli, the French, the British, I trust the CIA to know something is wrong here they are
not realy acting like a friend, a friend gives you 80%, Russian intelligence didn’t giving us 10 or
15%, do you think we are aware of the emnity of the hostility and of the attitude, that hey, we
are gonna go to war with each other.
L: You know, that recent president Bush decision to expel about 15 Russian spies from this
country, it was actually because America can not afford to keep so many spies on its soil now.
And its decision, politically it was of course totally correct, practically it doesn‘t so important like
politically and it works and for a while America will feel itself a little bit more safety when these
Russian spies will go out of this country and will replace by new guys, so it was some kind of
break in intelligence activity against the United States, but to consider Russian intelligence
friendly, no nobody cannot say so.
B: American leaders usually are politicians, you know ? governor of Arkansas, governor of
Texas. The leader of Russia, Putin, was a spy, like you?
L: No, he never was a spy like me, because I was assigned to strategic intelligence (B: military),
and this guy, he was in operational intelligence, its not strategic, and he had only one foreign
trip in Eastern Germany, where he worked under cover of official from friendship house between
Eastern Germany and Russians for several years, but mostly for counterintelligence purposes,
not intelligence and not for recruiting foreigners but to verify loyalty of Russian military personnel
inside Eastern Germany, so I cannot say that we had the same background.
B: You sound now like a marine drill instructor in Paris Island, poopooing the discipline of the
plain old regular Army in other words he was KGB and they are trash as for as your agency was
concerned.
L: Barry, its not only because of that, but you know that he stay in Germany in time of
preparation for Soviet armed forces withdrawal from Eastern Germany and you know how many
scandal corruption cases where in case, when they sell weapons to local people... and its not in
Russian president Putin official biography, but after he returned home back from Germany for
several months he couldn‘t find any job in Russia, it means that he did something against law,
or against KGB regulation when he stayed in Germany. Finally he was moved from intelligence
to counterintelligence, ist very, very big step down in his career, and after this he was moved
from active service to reserve, so one more step down and find himself in Leningrad university.
Is that intelligence career? No its life of person who is not so clean by his ?.
B: So he went down, down, down, until he became the leader of Russia?
L: Very easy, very easy to say why, because he, when he been in KGB active reserve they had
position of dean assistant for foreign relations, especially to keep control over students who had
contacts with foreigners and by request of KGB in 1991, he restored his relations with Anatoliy
Sobchak, candidate to the post of Leningrad mayor from independent group of people and
Sobchak was professor of Putin, when Putin was student of Leningrad university. From request
of the KGB and money from the KGB Putin restored his relations with his former professor
Sobchak and established himself as person number two in Sobchak administration exactly
beginning of 90s to 1996, when Sobchak was major of Leningrad, later St.Petersburg, this city
became a black hole for Russian weapon systems, nuclear materials, mineral resources, gold,
diamonds and everything what disappeared from Russia and appeared in Iran, Irak, Syria, Libya
and other rogue countries.
B: The mafia, to us, is just a disease, a terrible consequence, something that went into the
power vacuum when communism died and democracy was trying to get born, you have a
different impression of the mafia in Russia?
L: Yes its very different mafia, because you know, Sicilian-, Columbian- mafia, they are under
permanent attack from their government which try to do something against this mafia, but in
russia its impossible, because Russian mafia include government members, law enforcement
agency leaders, generals, as members of mafia-type organisation in Russia, deputy prime
minister, parliament members, they are members of this mafia-type organizations in Russia,
how can you fight against mafia in Russia where all these people are in power and until now,
Russia cannot approve a law specially designed for the fight against mafia type organisations,
because parliament is strongly opposed this law and in this country its no joke, but Russian
people they use it like joke, several words that just now every political party has supported mafia
and every mafia has one, two, maybe more political parties in Russia.
B: You know Fidel Castro is very, very angry at Russia, ridicules Russia for going soft and
letting communism down and letting revolution down, and letting the workers of the world down,
if Castro is so angry at Russia, how come is China which is just as communist as Fidel Castro,
how come they are friendly to you, why aren‘t they as angry as you for letting communism down
as Castro is?
L. Let‘s say that Castro was very angry about Russia a few years ago, when Russian help and
assistance was reduced dramatically to his regime, but during last few years, this help and
assistance was restored and actually annually Fidel Castro has many millions of dollars which
are going to his country from Russia as a lease for Russian, my former agency, SIGINT station,
location very close to Havanna, and as a money for the preservation of nuclear plant which
construction was in placed many years ago, but after this not so much. Chinese, they were
happy when communist party of Soviet Union disappeared because it was major adversary for
Beijing style Mao Tse Tung ideas combined with their own communism and socialism.
B: How would you explain to the American people, why we should give one dollar to Russia, as
long as Russia gives one dollar to Fidel Castro?
L: Let‘s say that from one dollar received from America, Russia spent for Fidel Castro maybe
10 cents, but how its going on I don‘t know. Because some times previous administration
policy was so strange and difficult to understand that I couldn‘t find out answer for very simple
questions.
B: What follows in our concluding segment will be the most breathtaking astounding details,
ever revealed by a Russian spy to the people of the United States, Colonel Stanley Lunev is the
highest ranking military spy ever to defect from Russia and he is willing to tell us all, and we will
give him time to tell us all.
--
B: I‘m Barry Farber and I am in a political military secret conspiratorial cold war candy store with
no need to break for commercials. Across our Newsmax microphones right now is the highest
ranking military spy ever to defect from the Soviet Union, ever to defect from Russia. He is
Colonel Stanislav Lunev, and Colonel in our closing segment here let‘s cover in as much ground
as we can. Do you know who killed John F. Kennedy?
L: Of course I don‘t know exactly who killed John Kennedy but I heard that it was a very special
operation, designed by soviet political leaders, to kill American president Kennedy and this
operation involved not only KGB and my former agency, strategic military intelligence GRU, but
was organized together with different antigovernment elements inside the United States using
American criminal groups, include mafia and actually what we do know now ist only very small
piece of the iceberg over this operation which was especially designed to physically eliminate
American commander in chief.
B: Why would Russia wanna do that?
L: This operation actually began not in time when he was killed, but much earlier in time of
Cuban or Caribbean crisis when Soviet special services used their resources to prepare
assassination of American commander in chief and when this crisis was over, this operation
continued especially to destroy a person who provided very damage to Soviet international
prestige and authority. You know that Caribbean crisis or Cuba crisis was finished by withdrawal
of Soviet strategic nuclear missiles from Cuban territory.
B: Is Castro a dead volcano or do you think he is still dangerous?
L: Castro is one between few totalitarian communist dictators in the world, of course he is still
dangerous because he is keeping very strong control over his country and providing territory of
his country to extremely hostile forces for the United States, because Russian they do have very
big military establishment in Cuba, their SIGINT station Lourdes is still very active in gathering
intelligence information against America and just now Chinese are coming to Cuba with billions
of dollars they are having from profit they traded with America.
B: This is not well known, we read American tourists, and Czech tourists, and German tourists
and British tourists and Swedish tourists, I dont think most Americans realize what you just said,
I wanna go back to it, are you telling me that there are Russian military bases in Cuba today?
L: Yes, unfortunately its absolutely unknown to American public that there is huge Russian
military and political intelligence presence on Cuban territory. And very well known for especially
is Lourdes SIGINT station is only one very small part of this military intelligence presence of
Russian federation on Cuban territory.
B: This is a very distressing question, next, POWs, we feel that there are still American
prisoners of war, possibly alive who are held illegaly and against all treaties by North Vietnam,
we hear some of them went to the Soviet Union, also from the Korean war, and there are even
allegations, that the Soviet Union, this is hard to believe, kept American GIs prisoner in World
War 2 when we and the Soviet Union where allies. Do you know anything about the POWs and
the MIAs missing in action?
L: Of course I do not have direct access to information about American POWs but I heard
and I heard many time and from reliable sources, that American personnel from the World
War 2 from Korean war and from Vietnam war, they were taken to the former Soviet Union
directly or via other socialist countries and they where used by Soviet leaders for gathering
intelligence information about the United States and American friends and allies, first of all
military information and actually until now, Russian government still keeping it as a very big
secret, but Russian former president Yeltsin, in 1992, when first time he made his official visit to
the United States, he openly recognized that American POWs were taken to the former Soviet
Union, he told it on the board of the Russian presidential airplane, on his way to Washington
D.C., but after airplane landed, his aides and assistants explained to American officials that
Yeltsin was as usual totaly drunk and he didn‘t respond to questions which were asked him by
American reporters.
B: So they wanted to patch it back up so that the official version would be, we don‘t know
anything about this.
L: Officially yes, they do not recognize that POWs from the United States were taken to former
Soviet Union.
B: This sounds like horror fiction, but is it true that there is a plan in place for Russia to poison
the American water supply?
L: Barry this is actually very big question, because war preparations from Russian federation
are in place like it was in time of former Soviet Union existance and during these preparations,
Russian military considering possibility to strike American soil before regular nuclear missiles
will reach American territory by special operation forces commandos who will use not only
tactical nuclear devices but containers with chemical, biological weapons, which were especially
designed to destroy this country in time before war will come, during war time and after war
would be between two countries.
B: Are such plans on the frontburner, backburner or forgotten down in the oven, for instance we
have contingency plans theoretically the pentagon has a plan what to do if airplanes from Costa
Rica would have bombed Finnland, I mean an impossible thing... contingency plan but would
you call it a frontburner operation, they have the ways and means to poison our water?
L: We are talking about general military point of view, we need to check out, whats going in
regular military training of different countries. I never heard that American military just now
considering to destroy Russian federation, but Russian military all their field exercises during
last several years are organized for the future war against the United States and American
friends and allies and during this war preparation, sometimes they disclose little details about
their real war plans and intentions.
B: You know people who are, what they call second amendment people, who defend the right
to own firearms, they say that those who wanna control firearms, take firearms away, you know
sort of mute that right and take away the right of Americans to own firearms, they say, every
dictatorship wants to take guns away from the people, is that naive, is there any talk or any
thinking, that you know in Russia that says watch out now, because a lot of Americans have
guns?
L: Very good question because in Russia situation is absolutely different and to have guns in
Russia its criminal punishment from few months to a couple of years in prison only to have
guns, because its illegal in Russia, and of course in military plans Russian military command
they have very close account about how many guns are on the hands or in hands of American
civilian people, because these guys if something happen with American military machine will
have a chance to protect themselves to protect their state, to protect their country and of course
Russian military plans are in total account with this number of guns in the hands of Americans.
B: So it would delight Moscow if there were total gun control in America.
L: Moscow will love it if America will establish control over guns, like its going on in Russia.
B: Lets give a brief blunt assessment from the Russian point of view of every American
president since John F. Kennedy. I guess if they assassinated him, that sort of answers
the question of how they viewed president Kennedy, did they view president Kennedy as a
dangerous enemy of the Soviet Union.
L: Barry, its, we do have very short time but very big question and to characterize all American
presidents, of course its very interesting but I can tell you one, that after John Kennedy Russia
was scared or afraid of only one president: Ronald Reagan, yes and Russian propaganda tried
to deliver to Russian people idea that president Reagan was unpredictable and unresponsible
but according Russian intelligence information, he was genious and he made so much for
strengthen America to, for the improvement of American national security that actually he
became the greatest American president of last period of our history.
B: So, in America there are still people who say Reagan is a buffoon, an actor and of no
consequence intellectualy or politicaly really, thats not the view from Moscow?
L: No, Moscow knew exactly what does it mean Reagan and most important, Soviet leaders
they knew exactly what people are inside inner circle of Ronald Reagan and people who
prepare his policy, his policy planer, policy makers and Ronald Reagan was so genious to
organize extremely talented group of people that its became major reason for the United States
victory in the cold war.
B: Strange you say that the only president that the Soviet Union feared was Reagan, you
would think they feared Lyndon Johnson who mobilized the American military for all out war
in Vietnam, or Nixon, the very cunning steadfast anticommunist, Gerald Ford, I guess was not
much on the political on the scale of threats to the Soviet Union?
L: But I think if Ronald Reagan would be American president in time of Vietnam war, it would
never have finished so sadly like it finished in 1975.
B: How about Bush sen. who put together a coalition to chase Saddam Hussein out of Kuwait?
L: He made a lot for America but compared with Ronald Reagan, I cannot say that he did
everything what was possible for the United States.
B: Now interesting question, Clinton?
L: President Clinton is very, very strange politician, because I do not pretend to be some kind
of expert in American policy but I know that according Russia or Russian policy of the United
States, his administration made so many mistakes and rely on very strange sweetheard deals
with corrupted Russian leaders that actualy America during president Clinton administration
made everything to discredit idea of democracy and free market economy for Russians,
unfortunately during last 8 years these ideas of democracy and free market economy in Russia
were totaly destroyed.
B: Is that president Clintons fault?
L: Not his own because first of all, from group of people who advice him what to do according
Russia and eastern european policy.
B: Now, how about George W. Bush?
L: I hope that George W. Bush will fulfill his pre-election promises and will realize the program
which was officialy declared by him before his election and in time after he became a president.
B: You know we all know, that we came close to war with the Soviet Union at the Cuban missile
crisis, it was the only time in my lifetime where wives in the suburbs called their husbands in
offices in downtown manhattan and said please come home immediately, they feared an atomic
strike on cities like New York and Washington, where there any other times when we came
close to war with the Soviet Union.
L: Cuban crisis it was exactly time when we were on the edge of real war and I heard that only
once in Soviet history, special operation forces commandos who had to take part in pre-war
operations against America were deployed in the United States, yes, were deployed in the
United States and were ready in few hours to eliminate American political leaders who are in
charge of the military chain of command.
B: Are you telling us you had meaningfull military assests on the territory of the United States?
L: Yes, they came here like tourists, students, not only from Russia but many countries, covered
themselves by very carefully prepared documentation and documents and were ready to pick
up weapon systems which were storaged in this country and to became soldiers in few minutes
after command.
B: How could they get their orders, I mean we listen very well, we eavesdrop very well, you
know the NSA, National Security Agency.
L: Its impossible to check and verify all radio situation in this country and in time when these
commanders, they keep their radios in silence they awaited only command, and this command
could not be intercepted or destroyed.
B: This probably most important question I can think of to ask you, are there significant Russian
military assets deployed in America today?
L: Today compared to the Cuban crisis, of course not, its very limited number and Russian
military personnel like military attache, Air Force, Navy, Army attache, they are located mostly in
Washington and in New York in the United Nations, but there are a lot of intelligence agents or
officers who are working here under civilian cover of diplomats, trade mission representatives,
journalists, businessmen, and to say their exact number of course I cannot.
B: You defected to our side, don‘t we have Colonel Lunevs in Russia right now, doing what you
did over here?
L: I think yes.
B: Are they as effective as you and your teammates were?
L: According information from Russia about this last spy expulsion exchange and previous
arrests, Russian counter intelligence they made arrest of people only who was not absolutely
careful in their intelligence business, so I think that masters of spy from American side are
working in Russia very successfully.
B: Lets talk about avoiding war with Russia, there are people to this day who think the Chinese
communists would have never entered the Korean war if General McArthur had agreed to
respect a buffer zone, say, not come closer than 40 miles to Manchuria, you know the Yalu
river, McArthur had a North Korean army on the run, he ignored that, he wanted to go right
to the Yalu river, turn the page, its now up to day, is it a good idea to push up NATO right up
against the border of Russia, countries that used to be allies of the Soviet Union, Poland is now
in NATO, Hungry is in NATO, Bulgaria... even Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia, which were inside
the Soviet Union since 1940, is this a good idea for America to be pressing that.
L: Barry, thats very big question, because first of all, extension of NATO is playing in the
favor of Russian nationalists which using NATO extension for explanation to people about
aggressiveness of America and NATO countries, but from another side, how to protect
people, how to protect new democracies, Poland, Czech republic, Hungary, just now Baltic
states, Bulgaria, Rumania, they are looking for NATO support, they understand that their
eastern neighbor, just now which is not so strong would restore ist power and they would be in
permanent danger from Russia.
B: You know, take Bulgaria, for example, which is not yet a member of NATO, you talked to
me a proverb last time we were together in Russian, ?, whats that means, that a chicken is not
a bird and Bulgaria is not a foreign country, can you imagine if Bulgaria joins NATO this is like
pouring kerosene over dry grass of Russian nationalism and lighting a match.
L: You are absolutely right, Bulgaria need to do so much to become a member of NATO,
that I don‘t have any idea how many years they will have to prepare this country for the full
membership of NATO.
B: Is our culture a factor in Russian military planning right now, I mean do they see us as
coming apart, dissolving, Ancient Rome, sex, sodomy, depraved, deprived, degradation on
the screen, in books, magazines, videos do they see American culture as our doing the job on
ourselves, that they don‘t have to do, all they have to do is watch.
L: Excellent question, really it been in time of former Soviet Union existence, when Soviet
propaganda tried to show America exactly like you said, but during last ten years in Russia so
many changes, and just now, actually non cultural country in the world that could be considering
as a Russian federation now, and they have much more trouble in culture, in sex, in crime, in
porno, in drugs, in everything, that they do not need to have somebody else to show whats
bad is going in their culture, and you know that unfortunately during last ten years number
of Russian population was declined dramatically and its going on about every years, about
1, 2 percent reduction of Russian population and officially they don‘t have anything else, but
recognize that Russian population is in deep decline now.
B: So, whatever is happening to us, is happening to them.
L: I don‘t think that its happening to America so dangerously like its happen to Russia, because
they absorb the worst from American culture to Russian culture and they didn‘t pay attention at
the good points of American live and using only bad points for their development.
B: Well I thought the Russian population, the Soviet population was somehow better, they used
to look down their noses, at our culture and said nje kulture, they are uncultured people.
L: Barry, I cannot agree with this, because Russian people for a long time, they really admired
about Americans and American way of live and actually we knew about America much more
than regular Americans know about America.
B: So it was just a Soviet official line, that we were nje kulture, the Russian people never looked
at us that way?
L: No, no, how its possible to consider people as a non kulture, who created multiuse space
ships, sent their people to the moon, to develop their country so much, that Soviet Union when it
tried to reach level of American development was overheated and destroyed itself.
B: Think hard in our closing minutes now, Col. Lunev, did you, do you think of anything
important that you told the CIA, that you haven‘t told yet?
L: Actually I tried to deliver to the representatives of American government the same information
which we discuss with you now and before and of course we do have very limited time, I
tell or try to tell much more and until now from time to time I have to tell to the government
representatives, what‘s really going on in Russia.
B: Do you see the trend, you know, when Whittaker Chambers left the communist party, he said
I am going from the winning side to the losing side, that may have been too pessimistic, do you
see America as the losing side today?
L: I don‘t think so, because American people is a reasonable proud people and I believe in the
future of Americans.
B: Do you think the Soviet Union, now Russia, will as they say ? grab traction learn democracy,
get rid of the mafia and be a proud, free country?
L: Yes, but I cannot see when it will happen, I dream about it, but to believe that it will come in
few days or minutes, it‘s non realistic.
B: Colonel Lunev, you know if you have the right money and the right connections, you can
take a ride on an American submarine today, you can fly our fastest most modern aircraft, if
you are Dennis Tito, you can even get yourself a ride on a space station, I wanna thank you for
doing something that I don‘t think has ever been done before, because you are really as the
top ranking military defector from the Soviet Union and Russia, you are the only one who could
do it, thank you for letting us in not on a submarine ride or an airplane right or a spacestation,
thanks for letting us in on a CIA top level tipitipitop secret briefing with Colonel Stanislav lunev,
the highest ranking military spy, underline military, because the other spies could only deliever
a pitiful fraction of what Colonel Lunev has given us, the highest ranking military spy ever to
defect from Russia. Friend of Newsmax, Colonel Stanislav Lunev, I‘m Barry Farber.