Our Future, The End of the World, UFO’s, Aliens, Free Energy, 2012, The NWO, NASA, The

United States, The Illumnati, safe places and more.  

Project Camelot Interviews Vol. 3
With Bill Ryan & Kerry Cassidy

Th e

Many who are challenging our current way of life have concerns about coming forward publicly and telling what they know. Project Camelot's purpose is to provide a vehicle for those researchers and 'whistleblowers' to get their stories of truth out to the public. Interviews With: Bill Homann ,Wade Frazier, Dr. Joseph Farrell, Jim Marrs, Duncan O'Finioan & Dave Corso, Dr. Steven Greer, Kerry Cassidy & Bill Ryan, Drs. Dan Burisch & Marci McDowell, Dr. Brian O’Leary, Dr. Bill Deagle, David Wilcock, Bob Dean, Arthur Newman a.k.a. “Henry Deacon”, , Dr. “Pete” Peterson, Dr. Paul LaViolette, Patrick Geryl, Jordan Maxwell, Erich von Daniken, Miriam Delicado, Dr. Len Horiritz, Dr. Alfred Webre, Marcia Schafer, Alex Collier, Cynthia Crawford, Richard Dolan and more. WARNING: Unless you have an open mind and are ready for some significant reality checks, do not open this book or read these interviews. They will tell you the truth, or as close to it as we can get at this time. And you may not be able to handle the truth. Remember to read between the lines where information conflicts. As Richard C. Hoagland says, “The lie is different at every level.”……..

It’s A Dangerous Path, …..Remember, ….You Were Warned!

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Bill Ryan
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Kerry Cassidy
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The Project Camelot Interviews Contents - Vol. 3
The Project Camelot Interviews Vol. 3 Contents Project Camelot - Kerry Cassidy & Bill Ryan Project Goals Overview & Mission Statement In Tribute & Memory A Note About Whistleblowers And Researhers Camelot Camera Work Bill Homann And The Mitchell-Hedges Crystal Skull
There are a number of known crystal skulls in existence, but of these the Mitchell-Hedges skull is unique in its extraordinary craftsmanship. It has been studied by both scientists and psychics with no conclusive proof as to how old it is or even how it could possibly have been crafted from a single large crystal. Many, including Bill Homann, believe it to be a relic from Atlantean times, and the story he tells of what occurred when it was reunited with the Crystal Orb (recovered from a cavity in an undersea pyramid in 1970) is highly intriguing.

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An Analysis Of The Mitchell-Hedges Crystal Skull
The skull is made from a single block of clear quartz, and is a near-perfect depiction of a small human skull measuring five inches high by seven inches long and five inches wide. Featured in The Mystery of the Crystal Skulls, by Chris Morton and Ceri Louise Thomas, is the account of the examination of the Mitchell-Hedges skull in 1970 by experts in quartz crystal at the Santa Clara laboratories of the computer and electronics giant, Hewlett-Packard. The authors returned there nearly three decades later to interview the then principal scientist, Jack Kusters, and the former engineering manager for quartz devices, Charles Adams, who had been present during the tests in 1970

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Wade Frazier - Interview Transcript - A Healed Planet & The Role Of Free Energy
Wade Frazier, "groomed as a scientist from an early age", became fascinated by the subject of Free Energy when just a teenager. As is so often the case with those with a clearly envisioned life mission when so young, his life's path then propelled him through a series of hard-hitting experiences that qualify him to be one of the preeminent writers on the subject today.

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Dr. Joseph Farrell - Nazi International
We first heard of Joseph Farrell from Richard Hoagland - and soon after from Nick Cook, the author of The Hunt for Zero Point. Farrell, like Peter Levenda, is essentially an academic: a document researcher who digs deep into historical detail and has become fascinated, as many others have, with the hidden history of the Third Reich. He has continued Igor Witkowski's and Nick Cook's research into the enigmatic Nazi Bell: an experimental device, classified at the highest level, that seems to have been used to investigate time distortion effects or antigravity - very possibly both - based on the beginnings of theoretical torsion physics that was being developed in the 1920s and 1930s by a number of brilliant European scientists, themselves very much ahead of their time. In this interview, Bill Ryan takes the lead and talks with Joseph Farrell in some depth about his work. The interview takes the viewer on a journey which starts before the Second World War, and explores just what German scientists may have been doing in great secret, with the full support of the SS. And, as the title of the video indicates, the story by no means ends there. This video may be of considerable interest to students of wartime advanced technology, and of the hidden history of the Third Reich.

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Jim Marrs - The Rise of the Fourth Reich in America
Jim Marrs - an amiable Texan with twinkling eyes and a mind like a steel trap - is a veteran researcher and speaker on all topics connected with the agenda of the New World Order. Project Camelot is proud to add him to our strong cadre of witnesses. The books that Jim has authored represent his range of interests clearly: Crossfire (about JFK), Alien Agenda, Rule by Secrecy, The Terror Conspiracy, PSI Spies, The Rise of the Fourth Reich, and Above Top Secret. Jim's broad span of research encompasses Egyptian and Sumerian mythology, Nazi technology, the ET presence, modern geopolitical analysis, the power of the military-industrial complex, the Illuminati, and what one might call the real history of the twentieth century.

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Jim sees the big picture clearly, has great command of detail, and is one of the strongest speakers on the lecture circuit today. The title of this video - The Rise of the Fourth Reich in America - tells its own story, and in this 75 minute interview Jim lays out the compelling and disturbing evidence that while most people thought the Second World War ended in 1945, the Nazis were never stopped in their agenda - which can only be understood when one considers how they were assisted in coming to power by those Controllers who plan in terms of generations... not terms of government office.

Duncan O'Finioan - Telephone Interview Transcript 13 April 2009
We had not talked with Duncan O'Finioan at length since our last meeting with him - when we interviewed him with David Corso in January 2007. In this 52 minute audio conversation he tells us about what he has learned about his programmed alternate personalities, how they operate, and what their agenda is; how he is working, with professional support, with a substantial group of people who have been through similar military programs (four generations of them, sourced in a number of different countries including Russia); and his visions of troubled times ahead in the US. Duncan, who has suffered greatly, is a great-hearted giant of a man and it's our privilege to continue to support him to get his message out. We're delighted that he will be speaking at our coming conference in LA in June 2009. Do listen to this interview.

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Dr. Bill Deagle – Telephone Interview 29 April 2009
We're co-creators of our own future. We're not VICTIMS of the future. We also have to realize that if someone dies in a third world country, like an 'untouchable' in India, or someone in Mexico City that's living in a garbage heap, WE die: some portion of us dies too. If we allow the use of depleted uranium weapons to kill little girls in Gaza, or if we allow nuclear weapons to drop on the Bushehr reactor and downwind millions die from radiation poisoning, we die too. And if we can feel that connectedness in spirit as a cell in the body of mankind... we would turn back from that. Dr Bill Deagle, 29 April 2009 In this interview we talk with Dr Bill Deagle for 54 minutes about the 'Swine Flu' outbreak, the possible plans of the Controllers, and his own personal philosophy. He covers the recent flu outbreak in Mexico and how it may be just a precursor of the 'real' outbreak, in another 'wave' to come; Dr Bill's view of the state of Israel and their plans to attack Iran; and we give Dr Bill a chance to address the issues many critics have raised over the past few years. One thing is clearly evident: Dr Bill is a very good sport and quite willing to face his detractors head-on with honesty and without rancor.

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Erich von Daniken - Interlaken, Switzerland, May 2009
I (Bill Ryan) first read Erich von Däniken's Chariots of the Gods in 1968, having saved up my pocket money as a 15 year old to buy a first edition hardback copy which became one of the earliest cornerstones in my library of the unexplained. When I had the opportunity to visit his Mystery Park, in Interlaken, Switzerland - a high-tech, multimedia showcase of evidence for ancient ET contact - I wrote to von Däniken to ask if it might be possible to meet. I was there with a group of friends, and Erich made a special appearance for a few minutes to say hello. We were honored and delighted. One of the group filmed the short conversation with a handycam, and we recorded the audio on a dictaphone. It is exactly as it appears: an impromptu meeting, and a brief personal conversation, in a public place. But for those who, like myself, appreciate him for making it so much easier for other researchers to follow ("I know Graham Hancock and Zecharia Sitchin well," Erich said. "We all keep in touch") - they may find this brief encounter most interesting. Enjoy...

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Bill Ryan's Keynote Presentation At The Zurich Conference, 10 July.
Experienced presenters (and I consider myself to be one) may be amused to know what when I stepped on to the stage to open the conference, I had prepared nothing, had no PowerPoint slides, and had no clue what I was going to talk about for two hours. However, although my mind was blank, everything felt fine - and it turned out to be really quite a good presentation. Moral of the story, go with the Force. Enjoy :)

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Dan Burisch and Marci McDowell Workshop, At The Zurich Conference, 12 July
Dan Burisch and Marci McDowell gave a two hour, personalized workshop to a group of 50 delegates from the Zurich Conference ('A NEW WORLD - IF YOU CAN TAKE IT') on 12 July 2009, in which they present and discuss, in considerable depth, many details of their work and experience.

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Dr. Brian O'Leary - Free Energy -- joined by Arthur Newman a.k.a. “Henry Deacon” -- 12 July.
Half way through Dr.Brian O'Leary's presentation on Free Energy, Arthur Newman a.k.a. “Henry Deacon” - who had been present throughout as an anonymous delegate - asked if he could join Brian to support his testimony on the reality of Free Energy technology.

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This video fully captures this surprising (and historic!) moment and Henry, in his very first public appearance, speaking nervously but with great courage, outlines a little of his experience and testifies to the reality of a Free Energy device, based on the Casimir Effect, which he worked with in the 1980s at the Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey and which at that time was accessible in the public domain. The video continues to the formal end of the Conference. Enjoy Brian's wonderful jazz piano...!

Dr. Dan Burisch - His Statement at the Zurich Conference, 16 July, 2009 Speakers Panel on UFO Disclosure, at the Barcelona Exopolitics Summit , 23 July, 2009
Project Camelot was invited to attend the Barcelona Exopolitics Summit to moderate an in-depth Panel Discussion between the speakers. While we were there, we took part in and/or filmed the following presentations or discussions - in date order of occurrence: Featuring (left to right): Paola Harris, Brian O'Leary, Bob Dean, Stephen Bassett, Kerry Cassidy, Bill Ryan, Michael Salla, Alfred Webre, Nick Pope, and Robert Fleischer. Dr Steven Greer was invited by the Barcelona conference organizers, but declined to take part.

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Press Conference, at the Barcelona Exopolitics Summit , 24 July, 2009
Here we feature our great friend Bob Dean speaking with passion to the press, discarding his notes as he started to address the room.

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Bob Dean's Conference Presentation, at the Barcelona Exopolitics Summit , 25 July, 2009
Bob Dean gives his 75 minute presentation in which he showed a number of impressive, suppressed NASA images - and at the end of which Henry Deacon went on to the stage with Kerry Cassidy to state that he had visited the Mars base as part of his classified work. This is a fantastic presentation and shows Bob Dean, 80 years old, word perfect, fluent, passionate, at his very finest.

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Futuretalk, at the Barcelona Exopolitics Summit 26 July, 2009
On the Sunday morning, the last day of the conference, we recorded an hour-long Futuretalk with Alfred Webre, Bob Dean, and Henry Deacon (Arthur Neumann).

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Dr. Steven Greer – The Unknown Agenda”
Dr Steven Greer of the Disclosure Project is almost too well-known in the UFO research community to require an introduction. His ground-breaking Press Conference, in Washington in May 2001, was one of a number of influential factors which inspired us to found Project Camelot five years later. Our intention was to support his initiative and add further momentum, and information, to the disclosure moment at a grass-roots level. Since we were all attending the Barcelona Exopolitics Summit in July 2009, we were looking forward, at last, to the opportunity to talk to Dr. Greer. More than one person in his entourage was also supportive of our meeting, as they themselves had been following Camelot's work for long enough to know that our intentions were honorable. What you will see in this 70 minute video [read in this transcript of the video] is an impassioned, articulate and intelligent discussion which has as its central theme the most important question that may be faced by the human race: Can we trust ALL the visitors to Planet Earth? To risk a simplistic paraphrase, Dr Greer says Yes, and Project Camelot says Not Necessarily. The debate is well-informed and vigorous. We thank Dr. Greer for appearing with us, and he gave a good account of himself. And so did we. Enjoy... and we would like to emphasize again what we stated clearly in the video: that none of us can know with certainty the agendas of all the many visiting ET races, and to presume that one does may be irresponsible and premature. Informed by what we know, we stand by that view - and we look forward to further discussion as more information continues to become available.

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Dr. Steven Greer – The Orion Project Dr. Steven Greer Talking to Art Bell on Coast To Coast AM 8 August 2004
Art Bell: Dr. Greer has been at the front of the parade with regard to disclosure. Dr. Steven Greer has been the man putting his life on the line and trying to pull or drag from the government, or civilians, or pilots, or anybody he can, the information about what we're going through here on Earth with unidentified flying objects and one of the reasons - I think, one of the main motivations - though, he can speak with his own tongue on this issue is that, if they are there, that means they have a propulsion system that would free the world from the war for oil. I mean, you know, basically folks, you can look at many reasons why we might be at war right now, but oil's got to be somewhere near the top of the list, equals energy equals if they've got it, we need it. And I think that's what he's chasing, but I don't know. I'd like to let Dr. Greer speak for himself….

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Arthur Newman a.k.a. “Henry Deacon” - Interview by Rafa Palacios July 2009
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Inpromptu inteview in lobby of hotel between Conference lectures.

Dr. Pete Peterson – from US interior- June 2009
Dr Peterson is an extremely well-informed insider - and a most remarkable and brilliant scientist - who came forward to talk with us publicly because he feels the issues he cares deeply about, and knows about, are too important to keep silent about. We salute his courage. Among the many things Dr Peterson spoke about at length was his strong, informed belief that there will be a melt-down of the global economy - and US infrastructure - which may be almost upon us; that Obama is planning to disclose the reality of ET contact by the end of the year; and that most, but not all, of the ET visitors are friendly. There is much, much more. Here is a very general list of the subjects we discussed: • The probable (in Dr Peterson's strong opinion) collapse of the economy, infrastructure, and law and order in the US • The planned disclosure of the ET presence • The Aurora (now retired from service and replaced by vehicles capable of superluminal travel) and the TR3B (the large flying triangle, which functions as an aircraft carrier) • Artificial intelligence and advanced robotics • The "information field" and how the body, the mind, and DNA really function • Healing modalities which work very rapidly and effectively • 'Rescuing' brilliant scientists out of the old USSR • How Mir (the Russian Space Station) was so heavy that it could not have been assembled without 'help' from our 'friends' (or, to be exact, the Russians' friends) • Time spent in the Vatican Library • The existence of Sumerian high technology • Quantum computing (off-camera, Dr Peterson held in his hand a cheap quantum chip, which he had assembled himself in his own laboratory, with the computing power of 10,000 PCs) • The genius of James Clerk Maxwell, and why Einstein was wrong • Why you should not spend too much time in front of your new Digital TV • The reality of the US prison camps • How President Obama was (in all probability) set up How he came to understand that 15% of the world's population (of all races) have ET ancestry that can be seen in their DNA - and are also resistant to mind control technologies.

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Miriam Delicado – A Message August 21, 2009
….We really need to step things up. We need to step things up as a community. We need to step things up in unity - and make our voices a lot stronger than they have been. It's very clear to me how this network of people that are working in this light in order to educate, in order to inform, and in order to bring about change for humanity and the Earth are really connected to one another. This particular time that we're in is very delicate - and it is truly the time of choice. But we're moving into a time where difficulties are starting to arise for individuals, communities, families. And we need to pay closer attention to what we as individuals are doing...

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Dr. Len Horiwitz – Emerging Viruses
A short video interview recorded by Kerry Cassidy with Dr Leonard Horowitz - when he spoke with Dr Masaru Emoto at the Live H2O event at Laguna Beach on 18 June 2009. For a little over half an hour Len talks with Kerry fluently, and with passion, about viruses, health, water, sovereignty, alternative healing, and his own Christian Faith.

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Patrick Geryl - The World Cataclysm in 2012
The World Cataclysm in 2012 is the title of a book written by Belgian author Patrick Geryl in 2005 - and the title tells it just like he sees it. Patrick's opinion is so cut-and-dried - and quite devoid of hope - that he was interviewed in conjunction with the upcoming Sony Pictures movie, 2012, due to be released worldwide next month. It is our conviction that as we enter this time of convergence where a multitude of simultaneously profound changes will be happening, the development of discernment becomes more and more crucial. In this spirit, we offer this interview: a report about the work of Patrick Geryl. In brief, Geryl is convinced that the sun will undergo a pole reversal in 2012, which he says, is a cyclical event that takes place every 26,000 years and has been documented. This has some scientific basis - and, from what we understand, this repeating event may indeed be overdue. This solar pole reversal would in turn induce a similar reversal on Planet Earth. At that point, to paraphrase Geryl's conclusions, all hell will break loose.

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Patrick Geryl - How To Survive 2012
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Patrick Geryl – Star Signs and the Labyrith Patrick Geryl – The Hall of Records and the Labyrinth Patrick Geryl – Pole Shift and Pole Reversal in 2012 Dr. Paul LaViolette - Earth Under Fire: Galactic Superwaves
Dr Paul LaViolette is the measured counterpart to Patrick Geryl, whose interview we have released simultaneously. A brilliant and maverick astrophysicist, Paul is best known for his research into a new theory of matter he calls Subquantum Kinetics - based on systems theory, which he studied for his PhD thesis - and for his carefully argued hypothesis, first formulated in 1983, that our galactic center periodically emits devastating waves he termed superwaves. Galactic superwaves are intense cosmic ray particle bombardments that originate from the center of our Galaxy, and that last for periods of up to a few thousand years. Paul explains that astronomical and geological evidence indicates that the last major superwave impacted our solar system around 12,000 to 16,000 years ago, and produced abrupt changes of the Earth's climate. The land animal extinction episode which occurred during this interval was the worst in several million years, and Paul estimates that approximately one or two superwaves strong enough to trigger an ice age are presently on their way to us from their birthplace at the galactic core... 23,000 light years away. Paul states that there is a real chance that one such event could arrive within the next few decades. Importantly - because they travel at the speed of light - we would not see them coming.

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Paul La Violette - Subquantum Kinetics - Based on Systems Theo – Comparison to Quantum Theory and Field Theory – Predictions – Astronomy and Climatology Jordan Maxwell - The Takeover of Planet Earth
According to Jordan, the picture is not pretty: the Earth is not controlled by human beings; that the human race is currently being mutated; and, to put it mildly, we are all in some degree of trouble. The dire conclusions Jordan has reached are mitigated by his own fascinating personal story: that he was groomed and prepared for his current role by nothing less than a group of benevolent ETs - one of whom he met in person in the guise of the father of a girl he met when he was just 19. He was explicitly told by this remarkable (but very ordinarily human-looking) man - who told him details of his life that no-one could possibly know - that he would have a very important job to do later, in years to come. It is very clear that he is doing that job right now.

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Miriam Delicado - LA Awake and Aware Conference - 19 September
Project Camelot Awake and Aware Conference, 19 September 2009, talking about her book ALIEN BLUE STAR - and the important message it brings.

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Dr Alfred Webre - LA Awake and Aware Conference - 19 September
Project Camelot Awake and Aware Conference, 19 September 2009, talking about Solar Cycles - and the nature of the changes that may be starting to affect us all.

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Marcia Schafer - LA Awake and Aware Conference - 19 September
Project Camelot Awake and Aware Conference, 19 September 2009, on the theme of Metamorphosis: the transformation of the human race, and of all us as spiritual beings here on Planet Earth.

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Richard Dolan - LA Awake and Aware Conference - 19 September
Project Camelot Awake and Aware Conference, 19 September 2009, talking about his important new book: Volume 2 of UFOs and THE NATIONAL SECURITY STATE.

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Robert Dean - LA Awake and Aware Conference - 19 September
Project Camelot Awake and Aware Conference, Los Angeles, 19 September 2009. This is another wonderful, heartfelt presentation by the best loved lecturer on the UFO circuit... and again Bob presents and comments on some of the suppressed NASA slides of Apollo 13, Mars, and Saturn which he has acquired. Enjoy :)

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Cynthia Crawford - LA Awake and Aware Conference - 19 September
Contactee Workshop at the Project Camelot Aware and Aware Conference, September 2009

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Duncan O'Finioan and David Corso - LA Awake and Aware Conference- 20 September
Duncan O'Finioan and David Corso, both survivors of the first generation of the US Military's highly classified super-soldier program, take the platform to talk about MK-ULTRA and PROJECT TALENT, and take questions from the audience.

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Alex Collier - LA Awake and Aware Conference - 20 September
Alex Collier speaks powerfully and engagingly at the Project Camelot AWAKE AND AWARE Conference in Los Angeles, 20 Sept 2009. We were delighted and privileged that Alex accepted our invitation to make a presentation at the conference, though for security reasons he asked us to withhold his name from the speakers' list until the conference had begun. Alex talked in depth and with passion about the problems and challenges that we all face looking towards the future from 2009 - and introduces an intriguing new concept: mentoring in co-operation with our ET allies.

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Jordon Maxwell - LA Awake and Aware Conference - 20 September
Speaking without notes and with little notice, veteran researcher Jordan Maxwell stepped up to the plate to help us to fill a vacant slot in the program to give a fascinating, impromptu 45 minute presentation at the Project Camelot Awake and Aware Conference in Los Angeles, 20 September 2009. A week later, we interviewed Jordan on video for three more hours - enabling him to continue presenting his material in the depth that it warrants. In the meantime, this all-too-brief presentation is an excellent introduction for anyone who has not yet heard this great man present his material. The new interview, containing important new material, is currently being edited and will be released soonest.

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David Wilcock - LA Awake and Aware Conference - 20 September
2012: THE RETURN OF CAMELOT -- DAVID WILCOCK's wonderful and inspired closing presentation at the Project Camelot Awake and Aware Conference, Los Angeles, 20 September 2009. -- A note of apology: we did the best we could with the colorizing of the video. The lighting conditions for the camera were very poor (David preferred the conference room lights turned right down so as to emphasize his slide presentation). The value of the content, of course, is unaffected :)

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Interviews and Lectures Not Yet Available As Transcripts Notes

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Bill Ryan
bill@projectavalon.net &

Kerry Cassidy
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About Us
The best place to hide is in the open. Project Camelot is based on an idea generated when we first met and spent the weekend in Tintagel, England, overlooking the sea in the home of King Arthur. We named our project in tribute to the vision behind the utopian idea of the Round Table - and have structured all our efforts in this inspiring spirit. For the past two years we have been financing Project Camelot solely out of our own pockets and with the generous help of donations from visitors to our site. We thank you sincerely all for your help and support, without which we could not do what we do. To date, we have traveled widely meeting and interviewing truth-tellers in the effort to provide enlightening testimony about the true nature of our world. We will continue as long as our funds and contributions make this all possible.

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Bill Ryan
Bill Ryan has a BSc in Mathematics with Physics and Psychology (Bristol University, UK, 1974), and followed this with a brief stint in teaching. For 27 years he was a management consultant specializing in personal and team development, leadership training and executive coaching. Major long-term clients included BAe (Systems) Ltd (formerly British Aerospace), Hewlett-Packard, and PricewaterhouseCoopers. In November 2005 he inaugurated the Project Serpo website, the report of an alleged disclosure, in stages, of a US-alien exchange program which took place over 40 years ago. While he had been interested in UFOs, Free Energy research and alternative medicine (he is trained as a kinesiologist) for over thirty years, his first contact with the UFO community at large occurred after establishing the Serpo website. He resigned his management consultancy post in May 2006 and now devotes all his time to Project Camelot.

Kerry Cassidy
Kerry Lynn Cassidy has a BA in English with graduate work in Sociology, an MBA certificate from the UCLA Anderson Graduate School of Management, and was competitively selected to attend a year of film school at the UCLA Extension Short Fiction Film Program as one of their first "hyphenates": a writer-director-producer. After 19 years in Hollywood working for major studios and independent production companies in production, development and new media, she has written a number of screenplays, acquired the movie rights to the Wingmakers story in 2003, and started work on her own UFO documentary in 2005.

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Bill Ryan is currently based in Europe and Kerry Cassidy lives near Los Angeles. Contrary to most people's very natural assumptions, they are not a couple. United in their vision and purpose, and working as the closest friends, they travel and network as widely as possible in search of truth and reliable testimony to answer what may be the most important questions of our time.

Project Goals:
• • • To provide researchers, activists and ‘whistleblowers’ – in the area of exopolitics, free energy and investigation into conspiracies that threaten the current paradigm – with access to all forms of media in order to get the truth out. To establish ‘safety in numbers’ and unite these disparate factions under an umbrella of protection for activists and ‘whistleblowers’ who may have concerns for the safety of themselves and their loved ones. To provide a tribute to all activists in paradigm-challenging fields who have worked for the benefit of humanity... and who have suffered or been silenced for speaking the truth.

Overview And Mission Statement:
• • • Many courageous, free-thinking individuals have suffered for their commitment to help humanity. We honor them here, and offer protection and support for those who follow in their path. We are dedicated to getting the truth out.

In Tribute And Memory:
Please visit the tribute page on our website for information about each of these people's lives and achievements... and why they may have died. Dr. John Badwey Paul Bennewitz James Black Dr. Eugene Blass Ron Bonds Mae Brussell Danny Casolaro Dr. J. Clayton William Cooper Dr. Cooperson Arie DeGeus Ruth Drown Frank Edwards Don Elkins James V. Forrestal Dr. Max Gerson John Hadley Harry Hoxsey Morris K. Jessup Dr. Milbank Johnson Todd Kauppila Jim Keith Dr. David Kelly John F. Kennedy Dorothy Kilgallen Dr. William Koch George Lakhovsky Ann Livingston Brian Lynch Dr. John Mack Dr. Eugene Mallove Dr. James McDonald Stanley Meyer Dr. Wilhelm Reich Royal Rife Ron Rummel Phil Schneider Leonid Strachunsky Jose Trias Karla Turner Dean Warwick Gary Webb 25 Marconi scientists, 1982-88 10 NASA astronauts, 1964-67 9 Minot and Barksdale AFB airmen, 2007 Mr. X (Dec. ’08) ... AND THE LIST GOES ON

These people died for their cause. Who will be next?

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A Note About Whistleblowers And Researchers
We, Kerry Cassidy and Bill Ryan, do not necessarily agree with or endorse all of the views presented here. What Camelot is about is the investigation into the mysteries that surround us. We are all, in a sense, investigators of our world. And while we, as individuals, may not agree with everything presented on our site, we fully support freedom of thought and speech as well as the Quest for truth. --31 December 2008

Camelot Camera Work
A filmmaker wrote in today to ask about our shooting and editing style for Camelot interviews... It occurs to me that many people may wonder about this. Some may be surprised to learn there actually is a method to our 'madness': Thank you for writing to us and taking the time to watch our videos. In regard to the editing style... We shoot interviews with 2 cameras... I use one main camera full on shooting the guest and behind that camera is usually the lead interviewer depending whether it is Bill or me. Most of the time it is me. Then we use the other camera as a roving cam and the other person does constant hand-held moving shots angling on whoever is talking -- either the interviewer or the guest. Then we cut it together... I like to emphasize the facial expressions and get interesting angles using the hand-held whenever possible to vary the pov of the guest and add variety. I also like to be zoomed in anywhere shoulders and above whenever possible. It requires a lot of attention while shooting especially for the one using the roving camera because they have to do a QUICK PAN over to the INTERVIEWER whenever that person asks a question .. then another QUICK PAN TO THE GUEST for the answer. While the lead camera is fixed solely on the Guest this is the most important footage as it never leaves the guest. We use that in editing as the primary reel and weave the other MOVING SHOTS in between. It is most important to get the dynamic INTERACTION between the subject and the interviewer.... This sets up the dramatic and emotional content that moves the interview out of the realm of conventional journalism and into the realm of art and reveals much more.... –Kerry Cassidy --30 August 2009

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Project Camelot: Bill Homann and the Mitchell-Hedges Crystal Skull
Maroochydore, Queensland, Australia, October 2008
were some around the jaw and the teeth. But when Dorland cracked the tooth when it was at Hewlett-Packard, he did restoration on it to repair it. So it’s hard to say where the markings came from.

When we were attending the October 2008 NEXUS conference in Australia, we had the great privilege of spending half an hour in the presence of the very famous Mitchell-Hedges Crystal Skull. While doing so, we were able to record a short impromptu interview with its current custodian, Bill Homann. We were able to film the skull at close range, and heard the fascinating stories of Dr. Ray Brown's Crystal Orb - of which we were shown a photograph - and a little-known major artifact, the whereabouts of which is known by Bill Homann, called the Crystal Boy. There are a number of known crystal skulls in existence, but of these the Mitchell-Hedges skull is unique in its extraordinary craftsmanship. It has been studied by both scientists and psychics with no conclusive proof as to how old it is or even how it could possibly have been crafted from a single large crystal. Many, including Bill Homann, believe it to be a relic from Atlantean times, and the story he tells of what occurred when it was reunited with the Crystal Orb (recovered from a cavity in an undersea pyramid in 1970) is highly intriguing. Bill Homann: The technology, whoever made it, is something that really couldn’t be recreated. And there’s so much in the Skull that the more you study it, the more unusual it is. So... Kerry Cassidy: In what way do you think the technology is so special? Could you explain what you mean by that? BH: Yeah. The technology. Well, the fact is... KC: Could it be created today if you had a crystal this big? BH: Well, the problem is the carving of the jaw, and that’s what is so exciting and messes up the scientists. The scientists want to come in. They’ve made tests and they found they couldn’t find any kind of tool marks or anything on the whole Skull. But there But the thing is... Even so, the thing that blows the scientists’ minds is...the fact is they can’t figure out how the Skull was separated. And being separated, and with Hewlett-Packard’s tests, the top half of the Skull and the jaw are the same piece of crystal.

KC: OK. BH: And that right there...how they can separate the two...the technology, even today, would be pretty much impossible. And the fact, is how they put prisms inside the Skull, how they put the lenses in there that work to the eye sockets. That would take zero gravity to try to do it today. And really I don’t think we could really duplicate it in zero gravity. So who did it, how they did it, that’s what makes the Skull so interesting. But the real thing about the Skull, what it is, is what

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you feel about it, you know. People pick up this energy, this specialness. KC: Well crystals in general will give you energy. You can find amethyst with your hands. I get energy. The reason why I’m doing this ... I get energy with my hands. And I can feel vortexes. BH: OK. Did you feel it outside? KC: Yes, I did. BH: Yeah. I mean it’s not like it... comes and stays with me. One of them, maybe the person from Italy, wanted to stay right to the last time, the last day, and then I took off and went to Sedona and Scottsdale and did lectures. Get back and then I do another. It’s just like... never-ending... [laughs] KC: So it takes you... it kind of like links you the rest of the people on the planet. BH: Right. And also it pulls me and puts me in positions. Like, I’m down here. I don’t know exactly why. But, you know, I’m running into these people that have the need to be here, the need. I’m finding the country to be an amazing place. And I think there’s some really special energy spots. And the Skull, one of the jobs it does, it works on the heart chakra, opening peoples’ hearts to this universal love. But what it also does is, it works on the ley lines of the Earth. And it helps to balance out the energy. And what’s so important with the shift that’s coming in 2012... It’s like, if the Earth is out of balance at all when all this energy hits it, it’s gonna... You know, it’ll just fly anywhere, you know. We really wouldn’t want to see what could happen. But if we can work with people on these grid lines and open up the energy and make it in balance, then the energy hitting it could make it a lot less. That’s one of the reasons I do this.

KC: It’s not like right here. BH: The waves... KC: It’s waves going out. BH: When you put your hands by it, it’s a connection to it. KC: Sure. BH: You have your hands out here, you can feel it. You can be out across the street, really... KC: Well I actually felt it when we were coming up the stairs. I could feel... There’s a vibration now that’s going on down the hall so to speak because of the presence of the thing. BH: So that’s the kind of... It’s a little unusual than, you know, not just because of it’s crystal by itself. KC: So, how many years has this Skull been in your life?

KC: Have you been to Stonehenge and to Egypt, to the Pyramids? BH: I have to go to Egypt to the Pyramids. And the Skull has been at Stonehenge. Yes. KC: So you still have to go to the Pyramids.

BH: Let’s see, probably about -- off and on -- for probably 12 years. KC: OK. And what... Has it changed your life, do you feel? BH: Completely. Yeah. Yeah. It’s... Especially my life now is just like a fast-moving river. Things happen. It’s like... If I can just take a month, like August. August: I went to Germany, Switzerland, Austria, met a lot of people, did a lot of lectures. Come back. Somebody from England comes over and stays with me. Somebody from Italy

BH: Yeah. And I feel that’s important, one of my important things -- that I need to go. It’s not just there. I think it’s Spain, Thebes, or wherever, that area is supposed to be special area. It has some kind of energy I need to go to. KC: OK. BH: But I find that where I’m supposed to go, people call and say: Hey, we’d like to do a lecture here. It seems to be the right place. So if that’s the place, we’ll be there.

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KC: I see. BH: OK. It was found in 1924. KC: I listened to your lecture... BH: Right. KC: ...but wasn’t sure where you kind of stepped in. KC: Right. BH: OK. Yeah. What happened is, it was found... F.A. MitchellHedges had it since the Mayans gave it back to him in 1927. KC: But that marvelous young girl found it. BH: Yes. It was his adopted daughter Anna. They found it together. KC: OK. BH: But he had it till ’59. When he passed away, it went back to Anna and she had it till 2007. KC: Really! BH: Yeah. In 2007... But, what happened is, I met her. There’s a lot of things in Anna’s life and Mitchell-Hedges’ life that had paralleled things that happened to me. I was in Panama, a lot of the places they were at. And I had an open connection right away to the Skull when I saw pictures of it. In ‘81 I heard about it, where it was at, and I went up to see her and met with her and we became really good friends. And she allowed me to go with her when she did different lectures and stuff all over the world. And so I was able to take her around the world to all these different sites, spiritual sites, around the world. And so that was... We became really good friends. And she’s an amazing, amazing person, someone I have total respect for. She’s a really neat person. BH: And then she came back in early 2000. And she was in Canada, and she was very sick. And I talked to her on the phone and I said... There was no one really around her at the time. So I said: Come to Indiana and I’ll take care of you. And she decided to do that. And she came down there. And she spent the last 8 years of her life with me, and I took care of her. And she taught me what she wanted to be done with the Skull, how it was supposed to be handled, and what she believed in. And so I gave my word. And that’s what I’m doing right now, is carrying out my word. My word was that I would take the Skull up and make it available to people that felt the importance of it, OK? People that felt... Not everybody is drawn to the Skull, but some people are really drawn to the Skull and they come from all over. So by opening it up to those people, that’s part of what I...my promise...that I promised to her. And that’s what I’m doing. KC: OK. And what is... like, was there a religious significance for Anna and the Skull? BH: And the Skull? Well you know what, Anna and myself... You know, I’m a very spiritual person. I feel the connection to god very closely and very importantly. I’m not at this point in my life a “religious” person in the fact that I don’t believe in the dogma of religion, but I work on the spirituality. I’m working on... I believe that the true essence of religion is inside, in the person, and going into that person and finding that connection is what I feel it’s all about. And the Skull is a tool for mankind. KC: So is she still alive? BH: No. What happened is, she traveled with... You know, she moved from place to place a lot, so she moved from Canada to England, England back to Canada. These were full moves, with new houses and everything.

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The Mayas believed it was a god. To them it was like their god had returned. But what it really is, it’s a tool to open the heart to the universal love. KC: OK. BH: Yeah. KC: Tall blonds. BH: Tall blonds. Yeah. KC: Where are you from originally? BH: Indiana. KC: Really? BH: Like Indiana Jones. So I feel a connection with the Skull and I feel, spiritually, if I can help people, if I can help the world, and use the tool to do it, that’s what I feel is a very important job. KC: Did Anna believe in the spiritual side, or did she believe in more of the religious side? BH: Anna was a very spiritual person. KC: OK. BH: As a matter of fact, you know, we had friends... We had this one friend, she was a secretary for Mother Theresa and worked with Mother Theresa for a while. And she met Anna. She said Anna had the same vibration as Mother Theresa. And that’s how she was. She was a person that if you met her, it’s like you knew her all your life. And she made you feel that way. KC: OK. BH: But she also... You know, she was very connected to the other side, so connected it was just like... In the last part of her life, there was so much psychic and different forces around her, it was just like unbelievable. It was like the veil between the other side and her was just so close, it was just like it was popping through. It was pretty amazing. So she was a very spiritual person. And very special. KC: So did she ever talk about any beings that were associated with the Skull? BH: Yes. Yeah. She felt... Well, there is different beings that have connection with the Skull and they are the ones that work through it. The Mayans are very connected to the Skull. The Mayans of Lubaatun, that area, they’re not... They’re a Mayan group that’s different than the average Mayan and they have connections with the ETs and they have connections with the Skulls. KC: OK. Do you know which ETs? BH: It wasn’t my 17th, though. [laughs] BH: Let’s see. I’m not... I wouldn’t say... Probably Pleiadians, probably are the ones. KC: Surprise, surprise! BH: Yeah. KC: So in a sense you didn’t actually start your journey until 2007, would you say? BH: No. My journey is, you know... started, as far as taking it around and doing stuff with people, it really started after Anna passed away. She passed away on my birthday in 2007. And she found it on her birthday, her 17th birthday. KC: Really! BH: Yeah. And she passed it to me on my birthday. KC: On your birthday... KC: OK. BH: [laughs] Sounds good, right? I love adventure. KC: That makes sense. BH: Life is an adventure with the Skull. It keeps you really going on.

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Bill Ryan: Kerry, I have one or two questions. I wonder if you could also capture me just briefly with this beautiful object. KC: We’re here for a half hour. That’s all we have here. BR: And that may be just about over. KC: Other people have booked sessions, is my understanding. BR [sits down]: I don’t come from Indiana, but I’ve got the hat... BH: [laughs] I was admiring that hat. That’s cool. BR: So I’ve been a little bit of an adventurer in my time. I’m very, very curious about the Crystal Boy. Now I’m certainly not going to be asking you any information about locations or plans or logistics, but what is your feeling of the importance of that? BR: Yes. But you do have some kind of a plan for how you’re going to handle that? BH: Yes. I have a plan. BR: In my sense, this is important. BH: Yeah, I do have a plan. And it’s just... This year has been one thing after another and I thought I would have been able to do it by now but I just haven’t had the chance. BR: This is a serious offer -- you must have heard this from many other people -- if you want anyone to follow you around with a camera, we’re equipped to do this. And it would be a huge privilege for us. KC: We do... We did interview somebody. Her name is Miriam Delicado and they're talking about having a major gathering of the Peoples of the planet, mainly with the Hopi and the Maya coming forward and talking about the prophecies. And they feel also that indigenous people everywhere should be sort of connecting with this gathering. And the Crystal Skull may be an important ingredient in that. So I’m just throwing that out to you. This would be happening in Hopiland. And I wonder if you’ve been to the Hopi. BH: I’m a very good friend of someone I really care about and respect, is Grandfather Martin, and he’s the Elder and he’s the Prophet for the Hopi Nation. KC: OK. BR: And there will be more. BH: Yeah. When they come together, different things, or very powerful things, can happen. I’m not saying that the Crystal Boy...like each object has its special gift and special purpose. The Crystal Boy, we don’t know exactly what its...what it does...but I know it’s probably a very important piece in this overall puzzle that we’re working on. BR: And you do have plans to retrieve this, I assume? BH: Yes. And, see, what it is... Well, the way I want to retrieve it is... You know, I could have retrieved it with NBC, which would have been fine, but I think they would not have had the right thing for the Skull. It would not have been... BR: The right energy. BH: The right energy. It would not have gone to the right place. It would probably have been locked up in some... It needs to go with someone... You know, I would find it. but it wouldn’t be like: Oh I want to keep the Skull with me. I’d like to find it and BH: And so I am very much for the Hopis and I believe in their work and what they’re doing. KC: And have you brought the Skull to the Hopi? BH: Yes I have. That’s one of the things that I was drawn to do and we did that this year. KC: OK. BH: And we met with them several times, just, a matter of fact, the last time was just two weeks ago. KC: Oh, really? OK. So you were probably right near me. I now live in Sedona. BH: OK. So, yeah. I was in Sedona. I was in... KC: I thought I heard that you’d been around. have it go with some of the spiritual leaders, maybe down in that area... BR: Yes. BH: ...as long as they’re gonna work together so we can work on this evolvement that we’re working on.

BH: I feel... You know, I feel that these different objects are pieces of importance in a puzzle. And the Skull is an important piece and also the Crystal Boy is an important piece.

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BH: Yep. Well, I was in Scottsdale. I left there, let’s see... Two weeks ago I was in, well it wasn’t even two weeks ago, it was last week I was in Sedona. I was in Angel Valley, doing a lecture for Angel Valley. KC: OK. BH: But two weeks before that I was in Scottsdale. And then from Scottsdale I went up to Sedona and did some work with the Hopi and stuff. It was very interesting. So what happened is, I was going out there for a lecture to an area where I meet these two people, and they said they had a friend there and the friend... they were talking about the Orb...and she said: I know where it is but I can’t tell anybody. He said: Well tell him the Skull’s coming. Maybe he wants to see it. And when he did that, he was all excited. We brought the Orb and the Skull together. And when we brought the Orb and Skull together for the first time... We did it twice, and the second time something different happened. But the first time, the Skull turned white and the Orb turned gold. KC: Wow. Wonderful. BH: But the thing is, the amazing thing about that is, I have a picture. I can show it to you. BR: I would love to see this. KC: Yes. We would. Absolutely. BR: I read about this Orb in Charles Berlitz’s book on the Bermuda Triangle many years ago and I’ve never forgotten that. It lodged in my mind. I thought: This is incredibly important. I thought it had disappeared. BH: It did disappear for all those years, until it just came out. And what happened is... You know, the Orb... It’s a crystal ball, and it has three pyramids built inside of it. BR: Mm hm. BH: But... And it’s pure crystal. But when we put ‘em together, the Skull turned white and the Orb turned gold. If you look around his hand, you can see white light shooting around. BR: That is amazing. Do you have plans to do more, to work more, with the Skull and the Orb? BH: Oh, of course, yeah. We’re just getting very good together. As a matter of fact, a couple weeks ago I was able to get together with them again and when we did it this time, the Skull turned blue and the... It was blue light going all over the ground. And the next day we’re in this room that had yellow table cloths and yellow walls. And you’re looking at this through the viewfinder on the camera and it was yellow walls and yellow table cloths. And when you took the picture, the Skull turned blue, the table cloths turned blue and the walls turned blue. And we took about 15 pictures and every time it did the same thing. BR: Incredible. BH: OK? Well I did a show for NBC, and it was about the Crystal Skull and me looking for stuff and he wondered what I was talking about. And when I was doing this he watched it and he saw the Skull and saw me and he felt that he had to show the Orb to me and that they needed to be together. But he thought that it was ridiculous because he didn’t know where I was or anything. BH: So, some pretty strong energy that’s involved. When an Atlantean Orb and Atlantean Skull get together it’s a major... I think there was a connection, an old connection. BR: And there must be more. BH: Oh, yeah. There’s more. And that’s what we’re doing right now, is we’re putting a call out to try to bring this stuff forward. I

Did you ever hear of the Crystal Orb? K, BR: No. BH: The Crystal Orb is a very special thing. It was found about 30 years ago by a gentleman called Ray Brown. If you look on some of the internet you can probably find some of that. He was really big at the time. Ray Brown was scuba diving on this island near Bimini. BR: I’ve heard this story. Incredible story. BH: Yeah. He went on this, and he found this in a pyramid? BR: Yes. BH: OK. Well the people that were with him went back out looking for stuff and they were mysteriously killed. But he was left. And he passed away a couple of years later, and he gave the Orb to his teacher, telling him never to show the Orb to anybody until the right time. BR: Yes. Right.

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believe a lot of the ancient people, the Mayas, or whatever, have some of this stuff in their own possession that they’re afraid to bring out because they know if it comes out the government tries to take it away from them. KC: Right. BR: And the Tibetans. They have some there, too. There’s no doubt at all. Yes. BH: Yeah. And I think maybe even there’s some here in Australian. I think the aborigines might have a Skull. And there’s a possibility that when I bring this Skull down there, we might bring the Skulls together. And if that happens I think that could be a major thing. BR: Yes. BH: It might be one of the reasons why I’m here. BR: Of course. I’m sure that you feel that you’re on a great sense of mission and you’re not totally sure what it is, but you’re going down this river. BH: Yeah. Just going with the flow. BR: Going with the flow, and you don’t really understand this. So that’s one of the reasons I go around, to get people know about their lives... BH: My name is Bill Homann. KC: Homann. OK. And the original person who had it was Anna... BH: OK. It was found by F.A. Mitchell-Hedges and Anna Mitchell-Hedges. F.A. Mitchell-Hedges was a famous British explorer. They are people that need to...people to know about... because in this day and age you don’t have any heroes. And they were heroes. And they did the... They walked. They didn’t just do the talk, they did the walk, and that’s pretty neat. KC: The journey is the message. Well that’s wonderful. And for the sake of the camera, can you please tell us your name?

Project Camelot projectcamelotportal.com & Bill Ryan bill@projectavalon.net & Kerry Cassidy kerry@projectcamelot.org

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Project Camelot: An Analysis Of The Mitchell-Hedges Crystal Skull
• It was impossible to say how old it was, as quartz crystal does not age. The experts pointed out that an estimated 80% of the earth's surface contains quartz crystal, but large pieces of pure quartz like this one are very uncommon. They said that whoever made the skull would have had no way of knowing when they began if there were fractures or holes inside and if they made one mistake they would have had to start again with another piece of quartz. They also found that it was made from a particular type of crystal. The authors write: The scientists at Hewlett-Packard were able to uncover one more potential clue to the mystery of the crystal skull. Other tests showed that the skull was not only made from a single piece of natural quartz, but from piezo-electric silicon dioxide, precisely the type of naturally occurring quartz that is so widely used in modern electronics. The piezo-electric qualities of some quartz crystal were only discovered, in the modern world at least, by the husband of Marie Curie in the latter years of the 19th century. It means that the skull has a positive and negative polarity, like a battery, and is capable of generating electricity. The experts also identified other extraordinary properties of the skull with regard to its interaction with electricity and light. The authors report: The Hewlett-Packard team also examined the skull's unusual optical properties, such as its ability to channel light from below, so that it is focused out through the eye sockets. Apparently, this is only possible on account of the orientation of the skull's optical axis... What this means is that light actually travels quicker through the skull in one direction than another. Jack explained that not only was the skull able to perform these incredible tricks with normal multi-directional light, but also that if you shine directional or polarized light at the skull, not only does the light pass along its optical axis quicker than in any other direction, but the skull also actually rotates that light as it travels along its axis.

The Mitchell-Hedges Crystal Skull The skull is made from a single block of clear quartz, and is a near-perfect depiction of a small human skull measuring five inches high by seven inches long and five inches wide. Featured in The Mystery of the Crystal Skulls, by Chris Morton and Ceri Louise Thomas, is the account of the examination of the Mitchell-Hedges skull in 1970 by experts in quartz crystal at the Santa Clara laboratories of the computer and electronics giant, Hewlett-Packard. The authors returned there nearly three decades later to interview the then principal scientist, Jack Kusters, and the former engineering manager for quartz devices, Charles Adams, who had been present during the tests in 1970. They confirmed that the study had produced the following results: • • • The skull was made from a single piece of pure natural quartz, and these are very rare in that quality. The quartz block would have been three times the size of the current skull, and even with modern tools it would have taken a year to make. It was highly unlikely that it could have been made with power tools anyway, because the delicate, detachable lower jaw would have almost certainly shattered from the vibration, friction and heat. Under extreme magnification, there was no sign of machine tools being used. The skull had to have been made by hand or by some unknown technique. It would have taken 'several generations' to carve by hand; one estimate was '300 man-years'.

• • •

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Project Camelot: Wade Frazier Interview Transcript “A Healed Planet & The Role Of Free Energy”
With Dr Brian O'Leary March 2009
happened to some inventors when they have 'come up against the system'; and how if this could be effectively countered - by large numbers of people embracing the concept AND working together on advanced technologies - we could transform our world into what Wade describes as paradise on Earth. Start of interview Bill Ryan (BR): This is Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy from Project Camelot. It’s Friday the 27th of March, 2009, different time zones in different parts of the world. I’m in Europe. Kerry is in Los Angeles. Brian is in Ecuador. Wade, you’re in Seattle? Is that right? Wade Frazier (WF): Yes. BR: We’re delighted, Wade, to be talking with you. Wade Frazier, like Brian O’Leary, who we had the great pleasure of meeting and talking with at length in Ecuador back in January, is a veteran free-energy activist. Brian O’Leary was on the astronaut program, is himself a veteran free-energy activist. He’s done a lot to investigate phenomena on the fringes of mainstream science, is a very accomplished speaker, has been everywhere and knows everyone, and we are very proud to feature him as one of the Witnesses on our site. But not so many people will have heard of Wade Frazier. His website, which is called ahealedplanet.net, has 1,200 pages. It is encyclopedic in its scope and it tells Wade’s story of a non-stop running skirmish with the whole issue of free energy. And you're taking to heart this, as a cause, which is very much what Brian O’Leary has done. Some people think that free energy is all about an inventor sitting in a garage or a basement with a bunch of electronics and magnets, and getting a little machine to work that will light up a light bulb and everyone thinks: Gee Whiz! This is a neat little device here. It’s an alternative to having a windmill in my garden. And this is very far from the point, because free energy is at the hub of so many issues that are connected with how our planet is run and controlled, that it really is one of the very central places to start. Wade, and what he has to say about free energy, needs to be heard. It’s a very, very important story. And, what I’m looking forward to here in the next hour or so is a conversation primarily with Wade and Brian O’Leary, to talk about why free energy is

--- I believe that much of that so-called advanced technology tries to mimic advanced spiritual abilities. My understanding is that much of our advanced technology is quaint by certain “extraterrestrial” standards, because we have a primitive understanding of consciousness. By and large, the heart is not in charge on Earth.

- Wade Frazier Wade Frazier, "groomed as a scientist from an early age", became fascinated by the subject of Free Energy when just a teenager. As is so often the case with those with a clearly envisioned life mission when so young, his life's path then propelled him through a series of hard-hitting experiences that qualify him to be one of the preeminent writers on the subject today. Wade's website, AHealedPlanet.net, comprises over 1200 pages of deeply thought-out, intelligent and well-informed commentary on a number of the most important issues of our time. His direct personal experiences include working shoulder-to-shoulder for a number of years with Dennis Lee, who he describes as 'The Indiana Jones of Free Energy'. Wade attests that Lee's largerthan-life experiences, many of which Wade witnessed at first hand (including the viability of his technology) were authentic and occurred just as he reports on his site. He is courteously dismissive of uninformed critics. Brian O'Leary, writer, speaker and ex-astronaut, who many listeners will already know - also a veteran Free Energy activist joined us for our 90 minute, wide-ranging conversation. We discussed the paradigm shift that is necessary in the world for the concept - let alone the technology - of Free Energy to be accepted; why maverick lone Free Energy inventors find themselves up against the most powerful hidden agendas on the planet ('like a mouse against an elephant', says Wade); what has

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something that we should care about, why it should be politicized, why it affects every corner of our lives. And for those people who have ventured into this area with practical intentions, it’s proved to be quite a dangerous path for them to tread because they can really interfere with the agendas of others. This is really what I would like to talk about. It isn’t going to be a technical conversation. It’s going to be a conversation about the paradigm shift that’s necessary for free energy to be ushered into this world in the 21st century. And I wonder, Wade, what it is about free energy that has made this virtually your life mission? Why is it so important? Why have you devoted so much of your time and your soul to this cause? WF: Thank you, Bill. As you know, it was a very long story that began when I was a child. I’m over 50 now, but my journey in the alternative energy area began when I was a teenager. I was groomed to be a scientist from a very young age. And when I was 16 years old, one of my professional mentors had invented an engine which was considered the best for powering an automobile. It created quite a lot of interest from the federal government in the United States. In fact, they spent millions of dollars developing and analyzing it. But also it never went anywhere. And, in fact, the inventor was told that if he thought his engine was going to make the internal combustion engine obsolete, he should start making his funeral plans. And so this was, you know, my introduction to this whole area, back in 1974. BR: That was when you were still a teenager, Wade. Is that right? WF: Yes. I was 16. I was 16 years old and at that time I had the dream of changing the energy paradigm in this world. At age 16 I had no idea what I could do about it, but it was a dream that I had. And so then I continued my science studies. And so, I think very importantly... In fact, most of the people that I’m aware of in this field, we generally have some kind of mystical orientation because we’ve had some experiences that sort of opened our paradigm to kind of beyond the “scientistic” paradigm, and saw a broader picture. Fellow travelers in this field, I think most of them would say, that that was probably key. Anyway, so... I then, you know, went to college and had some strange experiences that changed my studies from chemistry to accounting. Then I got out of school and went to work in Los Angeles and, you know, did my CPA thing. After several years of kind of being frustrated in the corporate world, I had another very strange set of events, capped with a paranormal experience, that lead me directly into a company up here in Seattle. This was 1986. They were marketing energy conservation equipment here in Seattle. Basically it’s a heating system that would save 80% of your heating costs. I joined the company as it was actually being bludgeoned out of existence by the energy interests up here in the Northwest. Because of that childhood dream and my background, even though the company was destroyed, the founder couldn’t get rid of me. So I ended up following him across the country to Boston, and then that’s when we started pursuing free energy, if you will. The technology that we were pursuing was actually marrying the heat pump that Dennis Lee, the guy in Seattle, was marketing, with the engine that my old mentor developed. [laughs] We were actually trying to marry those together. Then we ended up in Ventura, California, which is where I was raised, and then started making a lot of noise. I mean, my partner, Dennis – he’s the Indiana Jones of alternative energy. He’s been behind bars, you know, survived murder attempts. Currently the Federal Trade Commission’s trying to shut him down. Anyway, in Ventura then, we really got the attention of the people who I will say manage the energy paradigm on this planet. We received an offer in Boston and then we received another one in California. My partner was offered a billion dollars to fold up the operation and go away. The offer was made by a CIA man who said he represented European interests. A month after my partner declined their offer, then he found himself in jail with a million-dollar bail. The man who arrested him got promoted to be in charge of the jail, you know, a couple weeks later, and got an award, and all these kinds of things. So anyway, it was quite a radicalizing experience for me because they eventually took their masks off in Ventura to me and admitted to my face that their job was to take us out. So they did their best, and it was actually a pretty good job. They, you know, wrecked many, many lives. I ended up leaving Ventura back in 1990 after a couple of us essentially sprung Dennis from jail. He ended up only spending two years behind bars. And then I spent the next twelve years trying to figure out what I had just lived through and realized that probably everything I thought I knew was probably not true. And so then, the result of those twelve years of research... I don’t know, I probably read a quarter-million pages of material or something like that, and again, turned it into the website that I have today. And yes, Bill, it’s a thing that the energy situation... Humanity rides on top of it. In fact, humanity always has. Life on Earth, the human journey, it’s all... The energy situation is at the root of all that. And so an energy scarcity has defined the human journey. Even though I live in the richest, most powerful nation in history and the average American consumes 80 times the calories that go into their diets, but we’re still a scarcity-based society. The increasing level of energy use that the West has enjoyed has definitely transformed our society in many ways. It took a lot of old social structures and made them obsolete, you know. Slavery began with early civilization and ended with early industrialization. The liberation of women... all these things.

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There’s an essentially economic basis that underlies that, which is powered by energy. And what we found was that there’s people who manage the energy situation on a global basis. It can be debated who they are, what their motives are. Could they just be protecting their market? I tend to believe that they are maintaining their global power structure. That’s my conclusion. And again, I’ve run into fellow travelers since then, Brian among them, who... we’ve generally come to about the same vicinity of understanding the problem, the issues, and the opportunities and what’s possible. So I’m aware, and I think Brian is, and most of us are aware that there are energy technologies. You know, the guy tinkering around in his garage, if he ever really comes up with something, then he does attract the attention of the global controllers, I’ll call them. And in fact, people who poke their nose into this pretty deeply... Again, it’s risky business. There’s a lot of people who have had their lives wrecked, or they’re dead, or they’re silenced somehow. But some people, like Steven Greer who’s a warrior -- or Dennis -- he ended up banging on the front door of the White House and all this kind of stuff. And eventually Greer interacted with at least a faction of this global control organization. They admitted that they’ve paid 100-billion dollars in “quiet money” over the last couple generations to put the lid on “disruptive technologies”. And I would say free energy is probably at the top of that list, although my understanding is, from people very close to me who’ve witnessed some of these things, that antigravity... the people that you interview on your Project Camelot site. A lot of the things that I hear them say are things that I’ve also had experience of. And so, we kind of come to the same general vicinity. But my message, and I think Brian’s... essentially there’s a big picture to see here, and the energy situation is really the keystone of the thing. And, as far as why free energy and what it can bring about seems to be so unimaginable in our societies. I don’t know how conspiratorial that’s been, because eventually, after all my years of study and experience, etcetera, and being introduced to Bucky Fuller’s work, I came to realize what these ideologies have that keep us from seeing the big picture. They all are scarcity-based and so they all have a scarcity-based component to them. And in fact they also have a component where, if you have your allegiance to this certain ideology, then it feeds you. And so you’re very reluctant to give up your belief system. So free energy, etcetera... there can be an abundance-based foundation of our society, which... the human journey’s never seen that. So it’s something that really... it’s difficult to wrap your head around. It takes a long time to do that. Brian O’Leary (B’OL): Hi. Hello everybody. It’s good to be talking with you again, Bill, and to hear you’re reading Wade, because certainly both Wade and I have had parallel pathways of discovery, of stepping outside of the box of mainstream thinking. It’s taken quite a while, and it can be a very painful process. It’s a process that the general public now is, I think, beginning to awaken to. In answer to your question, Bill, imagine a world where we have these, say, little 10-kilowatt power-packs that you can put in your circuit-breaker box or under the hood of your car. The world would change overnight. Let’s say we made two or three billion of these... Now, I’m not saying that I necessarily advocate doing this under the system we now have. And that, of course, then begs the question of political and economic control, and some of the reasons why this technology has been so suppressed. And believe me, Wade and I have personally had many, many experiences around that since our own awareness became more pronounced. And what I found is you have to really lay aside all your conditioning of your scarcity-based kind of ideologies like capitalism, or nationalism, or a lot of the scientism, the rationalist / materialist paradigm. All these things are very subtly scarcitybased. I mean, some are less subtle than others, but in the end that’s what they have all in common. And so, what free energy ends up doing is you can actually replace that scarcity assumption with an abundance assumption. It’s a shift that would be... we’ve never seen it before. I mean, in fact all of the epical so-called revolutions of the human journey -- the super-predator revolution, or the domestication revolution, or the industrialization revolution -- essentially humanity was able to tap into another energy source and control a bunch more energy in a way that was able to free up people beyond survival. I live in the United States and it’s been a pretty comfortable existence to be an American, even though most Americans today are wondering if they’re going to lose their job next week. BR: Walking some of our listeners through this world that you describe as a thought experiment... Supposing there was a little black box in every house and in every truck, or in every plane there’s a slightly larger black box, and every power station has a really big black box. And this black box just gave as much output as one needed at zero cost once you’ve actually got this thing there. How does the world change? I’ve love to ask Brian’s view.

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So what I see happening is that this new world -- as long as the governments of the world and the corporations of the world change systemically--and that’s been my plea... Gosh, on my website I just posted a letter to Obama. It was an open appeal, basically, to please address the systemic changes we need so that we can usher in some of these new technologies in a very benign way, that we can do things differently, that we don’t want Dick Cheney running this one, too. Nor do we want the current US government, such as it is, to be running this one. Obviously these technologies are a big threat to vested interests, whether you’re a scientist... And we know that the whole history of science is just riddled with denial of new developments, whether it was during the Copernican revolution, the time of Keppler, Galileo. The Wright Brothers -- their initial flight, the reporter that reported it was far from its position and Scientific American about a year later ran an editorial, a scathing editorial, denying that aviation ever existed - because it wasn’t reported! Historically we can look at the structure of scientific revolutions – Thomas Kuhn’s book – and I know Wade is acutely aware of this. We’ve both been studying this kind of thing about paradigm shifts many times, and it’s now happening once again in spades. And as Wade points out, the energy picture in our time is probably more important than anything else. And so we have to kind of break this down and look at this from a sociologist’s point of view as: Who’s doing the suppressing and why are they doing the suppressing? And what you find when you really look at these things – because Wade and I have already seen for ourselves numerous demonstrations of proof-of-concept of the new energy technologies – why are they so violently suppressed? So you have this unwitting alliance among scientists, corporatists, governments. Even progressives - people who otherwise might want to embrace this possibility - even the progressives are not looking at these things, and that, of course, is the saddest part. And so, in our own way Wade and I kind of in parallel discovered that there is a whole process. It’s an emotional process. It’s a sociological one, where people who are trying to protect their own interests seem to dig their heels in even more than they otherwise would have, in order to protect their careers or their vested interests. So the scientists... most of the mainstream scientific community, just like in the early days of aviation, are denying the possibility of free energy and will go out of their way to debunk it. And there certainly have been many, many examples of that. But it’s not only the scientists. It’s the government itself. It’s the progressives. It’s... The people that call themselves environmentalists are obviously not radical enough. They’re thinking of things like solar energy and wind energy. But, you know, one of the disappointments I came to, back in the ’70s when I was working for Morris Udall... He was a congressman who was running for president, and he wanted to develop renewable clean energy, and in those days my only horizon of awareness was solar, wind, the so-called traditional renewables. But then a later study, if you look at the cost and benefits, you find that solar and wind is materials-intensive; it’s land-intensive; it’s capital-intensive. We’re talking about tens of trillions of dollars to invest in a whole new system of solar or wind to provide the world with its power, and that’s just not going to fly, especially in today’s economic climate. We need to be smarter about this. We need to look into the 21st century, towards those technologies that will truly give us a clean energy society. And my own discovery... During the 1980s and ’90s I traveled the world and visited some of the best and brightest inventors and wrote some books about this. And I finally came to my Ah-ha! that indeed this could change the world if it were implemented properly. So this whole new energy activism that Wade and I share is a great enthusiasm, but there’s also this undercurrent of sadness about how our planet, and almost of all of nature, is being destroyed by a cancerous humanity that is not awakening to these possibilities, which could then buy us a little time while we really try to reform our culture and do the systemic changes that we really need to do. BR: Brian, thank you. That’s a wonderfully articulate presentation of the problem and presentation of the challenge. I’d like to ask Wade if you could tell the second-hand story of this free energy pioneer, whose credibility you feel is total, who you said was shown by “The Powers That Be” what technology they actually have. And it was explained to him why they’re keeping this secret. This is a story that people need to hear. WF: Yes. During my years I came in contact with quite an interesting group of people. And anyway, one of my very close associates, yes, was shown – in a very remote setting – some of the technologies that exist today on Earth: antigravity, free energy. These technologies exist, you know. And for me, I put my jigsaw puzzle together of the picture at least that I see from all of this. And the people who have really been out there – I mean, it’s not for the timid – and the people who have survived anyway being out there and come back to tell what they’ve experienced... And the picture that I see is that the people who are calling the shots on the planet like calling the shots on the planet, and they don’t want to give that up. Energy independence would truly make everybody independent. And so, we are so energy dependent. We are so dependent on other people providing us our energy. If we actually had our own source of it, the very centralized, very secret, hierarchical political-economic-social systems we have in the world would become obsolete. For instance, this friend of mine who had this demonstration... the people who are currently addicted to the power that they have over the planet, they will do whatever it takes to maintain it. And the technologies they have are way beyond what is on the market today. I mean, it’s Star Trek kind of stuff. BR: Wade, did your friend tell you what it was exactly that he was shown? And was he given an explanation for why he was

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being shown this? And I’m assuming he must have been given an explanation why this technology was being withheld and not being released. Kerry, it might be better, to help Wade, if you could take the lead on this, because Wade is having trouble understanding my gentleman’s accent here. Kerry Cassidy (KC): [laughs] I know. That’s OK. I’m sorry about that. Wade, what he wants to know, and I’d love to know myself, what exactly was the technology that your friend was shown? WF: At least free energy, and at least antigravity. OK? Those were two of the technologies that were definitely shown off. OK? And he kind of like almost didn’t want to know a whole lot more because the knowledge can be considered dangerous to have. But there was a host of exotic technologies that were demonstrated, free energy and antigravity probably most prominently. KC: You say that technology was demonstrated. In other words, did they see craft, for example? WF: Oh. This was in an underground setting, so they definitely didn’t want to fly anything around, or at least the antigravity demonstration was probably, you know, it wasn’t something like a mothership or something. It was pretty small. But anyway, I’m saying these technologies were demonstrated. And again, the people who demonstrated them admitted that they do not have the freedom to essentially come above-board and bring this stuff to the world. And they also, though, said that they would like to bring it out, but it’s not safe. KC: OK. Why was your friend shown this? Why him? WF: Oh, why was my friend...? OK. So, my fr... Boy! This is where I have to be kind of careful. The circles I run around in – I have run around in; I’m kind of semi-retired from this stuff – but again, they go banging on the front door of the White House, go banging on the front door of the Pentagon, go banging on the front door of some corporations. Sometimes you get to meet the wizard. This person was high profile at the time. They were banging on the doors. They were stirring things up and they got a show. KC: OK. Can you tell us what aspect of, or do you know, what part of the military was involved in showing this stuff? WF: In fact, this person does not even know who it was who showed it to him. KC: Fascinating. OK. Very interesting. WF: This was a very, very secure operation. So secure... KC: And where was the underground base located? Can you say the state? WF: I am not sure. I believe it was in the United States. This person does not know where. They were taken there blindfolded. And they get to take the blindfold off, and they’re underground someplace, and there’s these people demonstrating something. And they’re talking to you and they know who you are, you know. And they’re like, they’re saying: Hey, we got some things to show ya. It was that kind of setting. KC: OK. WF: Until this person wants to talk publicly about it, I am not going to reveal too much information about it. Stuff that people had to disclose publicly, then I will. So, again, Dennis got a billion-dollar offer. When I was with Dennis, we had some very interesting interactions with some of these groups. And again, as I recall, Bill calls them white-hats and black-hats. And we had encounters with both groups. OK? And we would get periodically contacted by the white-hat group. It was very cryptic. You know, all of a sudden you’re working in the office late one night and you get a telephone call. And it’s like: Keep up the good work. This kind of thing. And so you’re kind of wondering: What was that all about? [laughs] So anyway, all I know is that during my days with Dennis, we were extremely high profile. And in fact I have written, because it’s a little safer to disclose it now, but when I was with him in ’96, ’97 we were subjected to an extremely elaborate sting operation that was trying to entrap us. And again, it was people who said they were going to give us a bunch of money to make things happen. About a year later I heard Tom Bearden talking about a very similar situation, saying how: Yes, they say they’re going to come and give you all this money, but it’s dirty money, and as soon as you sign for the money they whisk you off to prison. And it wasn’t until... actually it was last fall that I started writing about the financial meltdown and my interactions with some of these players and I came to slowly realize that we were being set up, and in fact in almost the same kind of operation that Bearden described. It was a very elaborate operation. It was extremely elaborate, like with penthouses in Manhattan and sovereign nations being involved. It was very elaborate. And I really don’t know. What was real and what was fabricated? I don’t know. How many people were duped and how many were in on it? I’ll probably never know. But I do know that we were being set up, whoever all these people are. Again, the Federal Trade Commission right now is trying to shut down Dennis. I haven’t been involved with Dennis since the ’90s, but they’re trying to shut him down right now. And when they clobbered us in Ventura, when they clobbered him in Washington, or they were about to clobber us in Boston, it’s usually the government that’s wielding the public club anyway. But they’re just taking orders. I mean, they’re not the guys really in charge of the operation.

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And that’s where, you know, when Dennis got the billion-dollar offer to fold up his tents and go away, that was not delivered... Oh yes, CIA representing European interests, or at least that’s what they said. So that’s... There’s your private / government, quasi- kind of thing going on. And then, again, the government comes and shuts you down. The sting operation that we were being subjected to, at the same time that I get a letter from our phone company that the Justice Department had subpoenaed our phone records and gagged them for six months from notifying us that they had, etcetera. You’re kind of wondering who-all’s involved, and how many different ways they’re coming at you. And I saw that in Seattle in ’86. I saw that in Ventura. We were subject to kind of a whole new level of the game when I was with Dennis back in ’96, ’97. So anyway, again... KC: Why do you think that was, though? Was it because you guys were so close? WF: Why that we got the attention that we did? KC: Yes. WF: Oh, because my partner, he... Again, when I met him in ’86, he was selling equipment. I mean, he was actually making an economic impact in the marketplace. And again, the closer you get to the market, the greater the resistance is going to be. So, yes, a guy tinkering in his garage, they just... they leave him... They’ll keep tabs on him, but they’re going to pretty much leave him alone unless he really comes up with something. Then again, he’ll get some attention. But we had a national effort going on. He sold quite a few millions of dollars of his heat pump. And he was trying to carpet Puget Sound with these heat pumps which was... One calculation was the local electric company was going to lose something like 20 billion dollars in revenues over the next 20 years and stuff. KC: Wade, when you say the white-hats were trying to show you this technology and they would call you up late at night and encourage you, do you know anything more about who the whitehats were? And did your friend actually ever have any kind of meetings with those white-hats? Were they military? WF: I’ll say this. I described the underground situation, and we would get called, and then we actually did get the suave façade of the black-hats, you know, offering us a billion dollars, and then I’m sure they were behind what happened to us in Ventura. I do listen. And again, for instance, Steven Greer has interacted quite a bit in these arenas, and the picture that he has developed of what he’s seen, I pretty much think he’s right, you know? And so, in fact when they mentioned the 100-billion dollars in “quiet money”, I was going: Well that makes perfect sense. Because just in my journey I’ve run into quite a few inventors who had been bought out, threatened, killed, this kind of thing. And when I heard that, 100-billion dollars in quiet money, it made perfect sense. Brian’s friend, John Rappaport, he said there’s eight economic cartels on the planet that kind of divvied up the world economy. I won’t deny that because I’ve seen similar activities taking place in medicine, media, these kinds of things. KC: Wade, can you talk about the white-hats, though? WF: I will talk about the white-hats. So, it’s interesting. I have one person I encountered once who was abducted, drugged, and put into an insane asylum. And when they were in this asylum – and it was a way to keep him quiet – there were kind of white-hat people in the asylum who were kind of looking out for him. I’m sure you guys have encountered this in some of the things I’ve read on your site, where this kind of thing goes on. So there are these kind of surreptitious white-hat people. And I don’t know exactly how that structure operates, but my understanding is that the, let’s say two- to three-hundred people who are kind of the policy-makers for the world economy... I would say 30 years ago it was a very small fraction of them, like five percent, or maybe just a few here and there, who were kind of not really sure they liked the program any longer. Several years ago I heard Greer say that it’s almost 50 / 50 now, to where the so-called white-hats... I don’t know how white those hats are but I believe that there’s a definite fracture in that structure, to where a lot of them realize that we’re going to turn the Earth into a cinder on the path we’re going. And so, they don’t like that program. They have grandchildren and this kind of thing. And so I think there has been a fracturing happen because the game’s getting pretty scary for them and so they don’t want it. So I don’t know how white those hats are. But I believe that what my friend was shown in the underground setting was some faction of that disenchanted half. That is my perception. KC: So you believe that these people basically took care of your operation in Ventura. They closed it down, in essence. Right? WF: Oh yes. In fact, when they raided us I was 29, young and naïve, and 13 armed deputies come in, kick us out of the buildings. And then they ransack our chief researcher’s office, strip it out to the walls, and then didn’t start the so-called “official search” for several hours later, said they never were in the room... except the researcher and one of our machinists, who was out behind the building, was able to actually see into the building and watch them ransacking the office. So this was when they first raided us. So at that moment we realized that this had nothing to do with trying to see if we’re committing crimes or not. I mean, they were committing the crimes right off the bat. Anyway, at that moment we realized that... I mean, I realized that definitely this had nothing to do with trying to protect the public or anything like that. And then, for me though, it was a thing of... It wasn’t until I was on the witness stand - and Dennis was in leg irons and with a million-dollar bail - and the prosecution is actually making faces at me as I’m on the witness stand. I mean, it’s kind of a Stalinist show-trial atmosphere. In fact the guy making faces at me was the guy who was in charge of the jail that Dennis was in.

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And then at that moment, that was essentially my radicalizing moment, where a twelve-year journey of gradual disillusionment, etcetera, sort of came to a head for me and I kind of: Ah-ha! That was kind of my big Ah-ha! moment was then, sitting on the witness stand where they’re making faces at me as I’m testifying. KC: Wade, I’d like to go over to Brian... what you can say about how the world needs to change in order to accept free energy and whether you think that there’s actually any hope at the moment for that happening? BO’L: Very good question, Kerry, and I wish I could answer it simply, because who knows what The Powers That Be are doing in quiet session right now. What I can say is that the concepts are there. There’s a very clear possibility we can develop these things, and there are many of us who’ve been advocating it for a long time. It seems like the political climate hasn’t really changed. On the other hand, the public is getting really pissed off at what’s happening. Certainly the economic demise we’re all going through right now is perhaps a metaphor or symbol, an archetype, for what could happen in the energy area, that even the protestors – the Bill McGivens of the world or the so-called free thinkers about peak oil or global warming, whether it’s James Hansen or Richard Heinberg or all of these other people who have advocated radical change – still do not embrace the possibility of free energy. So even though some of us, Wade and I and a number of others, have been attempting to educate some of these more visible progressive people about the possibility of free energy... and I’ve even had conversations with Congressman Dennis Kucinich about it and he did carefully listen. He did acknowledge it. He did want to introduce legislation to support the research and development on it and make this publicly more visible. Even though all of these things have been acknowledged and communicated, the fact remains that the consensus among the socalled progressives is still a complete denial about the possibility of free energy. And that, to me, was the most astounding discovery I made that – having done almost two decades ago my world travels to find out for myself as a scientist that indeed these concepts are very real; there are many, many different parallel technologies, any one, or some of which could do the trick – but whenever it comes time for actual development of it, that’s when people step in. And that discovery which I made on my own, and Wade has made it on his own, and many, many others – Tom Bearden – many, many other people on the cutting edge of these technologies have all come to believe that the world is definitely controlled by a cabal of people who don’t want this to happen. That’s the saddest part of it, is the lack of awareness among most people in the world that this is even a possibility. And if I were to develop policy, my own thinking is that: Well, we should leave no stone unturned in our quest for clean energy, and creating a world of abundance. But somehow that’s perceived by The Powers That Be as a threat to them, just like significant economic reform – or economic revolution is probably a better word now for the situation we’re in – has been vehemently opposed by Wall Street and the people in charge. They’re digging their heels in. So we’re involved in this incredible storyline that’s probably more sensational than anything that could be dreamt up in Hollywood. And unfortunately most people have been very slow to awaken to this possibility. Because in a sense the politically palatable way of presenting this material is that, simply: This is a possibility. Let’s look at it. Let’s see how we might be able to implement it. Let’s see what kind of world we can have with this implementation. These are the questions that need to be asked now. KC: OK. Thank you, Brian. Wade, what do you think about the potential for free energy now, after you’ve been through all that you’ve been through? Politically, I mean... What do you think the chances of actually turning the tide, as you say, using white-hats who are obviously, you know, not happy with the situation? And there are many people behind – they’re very unhappy with the current situation. They’re looking for news ways of doing things. Do you think that the climate is such that perhaps this new energy technology can now come through? WF: I think you’re kind of getting to the nub of the matter here. In my work – and again the things I realized, and this was through my radicalizing experiences – there’s the black-hats and the white-hats and they’re definitely doing their thing. At the same time, they’re really not very powerful. I mean, you’re talking, you know, maybe a few thousand people out of 6 billion people, you know. And they have definitely a lot of tricks in their bag and these kind of things. But when the dust settled in Ventura I realized that if I had a hundred Dennis's, free energy would have been easy. It would have been... We’d have been unstoppable. But there’s only a few of him on the planet. So, the thing is for me, is that it’s not about the white- and blackhats. It’s about us, the great unwashed masses. We can make it happen. But we can’t make it happen if we can’t even imagine that it can be better. That’s the message that I’m trying to get across. I’m trying to make free energy thinkable. I’m trying to make it to where... to bring it out of, either as Bill said, some guy tinkering in his garage, or some Star Trek fantasy or something, to say: Now these things, I know they’re real. I know they’re possible. And the outcome of that... I’ve been living with this for many years. I can barely imagine what it could do. The whole course of the human journey could change very dramatically. And so, I think if enough people kind of understood that, it wouldn’t take very many people to just even think about this stuff to maybe create enough momentum to go in the direction of helping it happen. Because what happens is, the people pursuing these things, they’re out there alone in the desert. I mean, that’s the problem.

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They’re out there alone in the desert and they’re so vulnerable. Again, most people just take the money. So the 100-billion dollars in quiet money... I bet that worked 95 percent of the time. They just took the money and it was over. KC: And when you don’t take the money, what do you think happens to the people when they don’t take the money? WF: Then they start playing rough. KC: OK. WF: And again, most people take the money. In fact, again, Bearden, I heard him talk eleven years ago or so about this. And so what they do is, it’s a carrot and stick. They’re very subtle. I mean, it’s a very... how to say it? If they came right out in the open and it was very obvious what they were doing, too many people would catch on. So it’s a very sophisticated, very subtle kind of way they operate. You know, it took me over ten years after the sting operation almost nabbed us for me to kind of figure out what was going on. And so it’s very subtle. And Bearden talks about how they operate. Again, what I’ve seen, I think he’s right. And also what I’ve seen, though, is that one provocateur set loose in the midst of 100 average people? Provocateur prevails. I mean, particularly when you start having the pressure of like we were experiencing in Ventura and Seattle. KC: So what is it... do you think that they’re still after you, so to speak, in that they’re still messing with you and the people that you know that are working in this area? WF: Oh God! Oh sure! KC: Do you think they’re still messing with you? WF: I don’t know of an issue of a greater magnitude than the energy issue that humanity’s facing right now. Oh my God, we’re having wars in, you know, Asia, killing millions of people and stuff over the hydrocarbons. The issue is so multi-faceted, it’s so immense, that... Oh yes, this is being very carefully managed. And again, these “disruptive technologies” are very carefully monitored. I mean, what my friend saw was somehow somebody snuck something out the back door and demonstrated some of the stuff, you know? It’s very tightly controlled to make sure that “disruptive technologies”, particularly like free energy, do not appear on the scene. You know, it’s possible that it’s going to come down to the white-hats and black-hats. It’s possible that’s how it’s going to be determined. Part of me hopes that’s not how it happens. Part of me hopes that enough of us kind of make enough noise in a positive way. But if enough people understood the potential, understood what was possible, and understood how important they could be to help making that happen by just simply lending their awareness to the issue... That’s what I’m trying to find out. I think that that’s a way that it can happen. KC: Thank you, Wade. That’s great. Brian, I would like to ask you, because it sounds like you and Wade are actually on the same page with this, as far as what’s necessary next is to get the word out in such a way that people become educated so that the mass of people can actually maybe turn the tide. Is that your feeling? BO’L: Absolutely, Kerry. And indeed Wade and I are on the same page. And it’s not very many of us on this planet that are on the same page right now, so it’s kind of a lonely process. But to the degree that we can at least instill in enough people the fact that these things are very real, that the concepts have been shown to exist, that their development requires an R & D effort like anything else that involves new technologies. This certainly has happened in information technology quite abundantly. KC: So, Wade, what are you doing now? I mean, I know you’ve kind of run a very hard race, it sounds like, trying to get this stuff out there. Are you in touch with some people now that are actually working on free energy that are being interfered with? WF: Yes. Yes, there’s some. I look through it, on my journey I saw enough of people like me going through similar things. Brian is in contact with many more of those kind of people than I am. I’m aware of quite a few. I’m in touch with some. And I love them, these people who are trying to do these things, but where I am is that they don’t have any support. KC: Your effort is to drum up the support? WF: Yes! KC: In other words, you’ve kind of changed your tactic from encouraging or working on free energy directly yourself, to trying to drum up a grassroots effort? WF: In the end, if I can have a part in helping people just imagine that it’s possible, for me that... I’m done. I mean, if I achieve that, I will have achieved, you know, something that I would be happy to achieve. That would be enough for me to just help enough people understand that these things are feasible, and what can come out of that. Yes, that’s where I’ve been since 1989 when I sprung Dennis from jail. I was pretty much done. And again he got me to rejoin with him back in ’96, ’97. I was only there a few months but it was a thing where I haven’t really been actively involved in doing the Indiana Jones thing for, again, 20 years. And again, three years was... That was enough. It was enough for one life for me of doing that. In fact, I don’t know how Dennis does it. Some of these people, I don’t know how they do it. I really don’t know. KC: When you say you don’t know how they do it, you’re saying you don’t know how they deal with the opposition that they get? Is that what you mean? WF: No-no. I mean, so here’s Dennis, survived a number of murder attempts, been behind bars twice for two years, almost got killed inside there, turned down a billion-dollar offer to go away. There’s now, again, there’s going to be some TV show’s

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going to smear him on Sunday. The FTC’s trying to shut him down, and he’s still at it! That’s the part I’m going: How do you still keep doing it? So that’s the thing that, for me, boggles my mind, you know. Or again, there’s other people. I mean, Greer’s one of them. They go through immense hardships, and they come back for more. And for me, that’s... Like Brian. Brian’s been doing this for a long time. And I’ve been doing it, but I don’t play at their level. And that’s the thing. I tried to do something different and again, the ride was too rough for me. The ride was too rough. And I said: I can’t afford to do that anymore. Anyway, that’s kind of what I was saying, is that I don’t know how some of these people are able to do what they do. KC: Are you familiar with Ralph Ring? Ralph Ring is a free energy person from way back. Back in the ’60s, the FBI came in and closed him down when he was working with Otis Carr. So I wondered if perhaps you knew about him. He’s quite elderly. WF: No. KC: He’s actually now back at it. He’s back at work trying to get funding, and... WF: I have nothing but admiration... KC: So do you give advice to these people? I mean, you know, John Hutchison, for example. Do you know him? WF: Yes. I’ve interacted with Mr. Hutchison. Oh man... it’s hard, because I can... I mean, that they’re still trying to do... That they’re trying to do it is so honorable and wonderful, and the odds against them are so immense. I mean, they’re so immense in today’s world. And so, I mean, it’s like a mouse trying to take on an elephant, you know. And you’re seeing this and my heart goes out to these people for this. And again, I’m trying to say: I’m trying to get you some help by helping more people to become aware of what’s going on. Because most of these people, they just end up... as Brian said this is a lonely, lonely journey. They can’t do it by themselves. My opinion is? They don’t have a prayer by themselves. They’re too vulnerable. It’s easy to take them out. You know, we had hundreds and hundreds of people involved when they took us out. It takes more. It takes more people with the right stuff. KC: Do you think times have changed sufficiently to where there might be a chance for these people, because of the downturn in the economy and the discontent that’s out there? WF: Yes, I believe that the big shifts will happen quite often when the current structure kind of crumbles. Right? So it does bring opportunities. Yes, these are very pregnant times. I believe that we are in the middle of quite a transition. Whether we make it or not is probably still an open question, but I think we are in this transitory time when the old ways are starting to crumble. So yes, there’s lots of opportunity. And again, what Brian is trying to do, what I’m trying to do is to give extremely positive solutions that are right there! It wouldn’t take much to turn this into heaven on Earth. It really wouldn’t take that much to do that. Definitely there’s more people who are pulling up from the dream, let’s say, that we’re all kind of fed, and trying to see differently. So yes, I think there’s opportunity. KC: Well it’s wonderful to hear you say that. And obviously, after all that you’ve been through, it’s really extraordinary that you can still hold that perspective. WF: Well, thank you, and it hasn’t been easy. KC: [laughs] OK. Well I did want to ask you, what was your paranormal event, or series of events, that pushed you on this road? WF: OK. I was this, you know, this science prodigy as a young child. And again, my dad used to work in Mission Control, and so... I mean, my dad left Houston just before Brian moved there, and so we’ve had these kind of parallel... Anyhow, I was this kind of space brat, you know, scientist’s kid. And as a teenager I started getting introduced to some of the pretty mundane inventions that were, compared to what’s on the market, truly revolutionary. And again that’s when I started kind of “getting it.” Like when I was twelve years old, my father reversed the hardening of his arteries by adopting a live-food diet, something that medicine at that time said was impossible. So I was introduced to the impossible happening at age twelve. And again, I had my mystical awakening at age 16... KC: OK. But what’s your mystical awakening? What do you mean when you say your mystical awakening? WF: OK. That’s a good question. Brian and I had the same exercise that both initiated our mystical awakening, which was... back then it was called the Edgar Cayce Method. Today they call it remote viewing. But I was in a Silva Mind Control class in 1974. Brian took Life Spring in 1979. And at the end of this training, you’re given the name, age, sex, and city and then I was able to describe... Well, actually more dramatically, I had somebody in mind, that I gave this information to somebody else, and they were able to describe to me - in startling detail - this person. That was the beginning of my mystical awakening, was seeing people perform psychically, very dramatically. And then it was my turn and I was able to do the same thing. And Brian, when he took Life Spring, he had the same experience. In fact, those classes that were very popular in the ’70s. Millions of people took them with similar results. Anyway, for me, that turned something on in me and I think it opened up my intuitive side. But again, to me it was the beginning of my mystical awakening. And most of my fellow

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travelers in this field, they usually had some kind of experience like that when they were in their late teens or early 20s. Greer had a near-death experience at 17. One of my fellow travelers had a Kundalini experience as a college physics student and then developed a free energy prototype that was immediately seized, you know. And again, he was like in his early 20s. This is a very common age when this kind of thing happened. And my professional mentor that invented the engine and stuff, you know, “world’s best engine” comes to him at a stoplight! You know? Where does that come from? So anyway, I just had enough of those kinds of experiences and then had some of my own experiences that really opened my eyes. KC: What about UFOs? Did you have any kind of encounter experiences? WF: Yes. I’ve encountered lots of people who’ve seen craft. Some people have had, you know, “close encounters of the third kind”. But I just heard a lot of this stuff. It was on my list of things to do, was to go out and see one, and then... Anyway, one of my fellow free energy travelers said he would go down near Mount Adams and watch UFOs fly over. A couple of my aerospace buddies from Boeing organized a trip here, 2005, for us to go watch UFOs, and we got our show. And if I went back the next two years in a row, and I got a show every year, that would be something. KC: Oh, you went to Trout Lake? [ed. note: in Washington state] WF: Yes. KC: Absolutely. We went as well, and we’ve seen James Gilliland’s, you know, we’ve been up to his ranch and saw the craft. WF: Our first night there, James said: Let me see if I can get one to do something, and a minute later one did, you know, like very dramatically. In fact, there was an Air Force captain standing next to me, and again, a couple Boeing guys, and it blew their doors off, that’s for sure. So anyway. Yes. So I’ve experienced that. KC: Bill is telling me that when your friend had his machine seized, that they knew it was there even though it was a secret. Do you think they remote-viewed? They had their remote viewers tap into the situation? WF: You know, I don’t know on that one. I just know that, actually it got seized twice. I’m going: Wow, they must have pretty good surveillance to do that kind of stuff. And then again in my circles, somebody who should know said: Oh yes. They can tell when anybody in the planet taps into that field. And I’m like: Oh... OK. I don’t know exactly how they’re able to surveil and to do this but they did. He was a physics student and he actually goes into this physics lab and he bread-boards a prototype that works. I think he was using the radiant effect, which is one of the free energy ways out there. He had a Men-in-Black experience a few hours later... seized the prototype. He was kind of booted out onto the sidewalk, kind of going: What the hell was that all about? He was probably, you know, 21 or something. And anyway, so he’s like: They can’t do that! So he goes and rents out some warehouse space somewhere very secretly under an assumed name. So he’s doing this secretly they’ll never find out. And he ends up making it happen again and a few hours later, Men-in-Blackexperience again. KC: That’s fascinating. I’m sure they surveil the entire planet for free energy devices and I imagine they are able to pick them up in the matrix. WF: When I asked somebody: How’d they do that? you know, they said: Well, they have satellite technology that can surveil the whole planet. Anybody taps into this ZPE field, they know it. So I’m like: Oh. OK. And, my understanding is that if you ever tap into that kind of stuff, it depends on who you are and where you are as far as what their response will be. So if you’re a group of 100 people, you know, they’re going to have to be very careful about how they do it. But if you’re just a kid in a lab, they just send in the team. It’s easy to take care of it with just one person. KC: Do you think that their tactics have changed over the years? WF: You know, I would imagine. In your journey you just hear these various things happening, and you’re kinda going: Whoa! Look at that. Look at that. Yes. So what they used to, let’s say 30 years ago or so, they were extremely violent. I mean I’ve heard of stuff like a guy’s whole family being murdered, and then they burn the house down and then bulldoze it, you know. And this kind of stuff has happened. Dennis has been high profile a number of times. In Ventura we were pretty high profile, and we were approached once. I’m going to say probably 30 years ago, there was this guy who was... had built a windmill farm out in the southwest. He was rich. He was like apparently worth 400-million dollars, and he invested 35-million dollars of his own money into this windmill farm. He was making electricity. He was trying to sell it to electric companies. And then he was working late at the office one night and he gets a call and pretty much the caller made it very clear that: You have a choice. You can either leave your facility there, never return, or your family will be dead by dawn. What’s it going to be? KC: [laughs] Wow. WF: And again, when you’re worth 400 million dollars they can’t... what kind of carrot can you give to somebody worth 400 million dollars? So they just come right out with the stick. Anyway, this guy, he goes: Well, I took out my calculator and I

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banged in the numbers and that was 9 percent of my net worth. And I just decided it ain’t worth it. He just packed his briefcase and leaves and never returned. And again, he tells us all this in a limo just before they dropped the sledgehammer on us. And he said: You know, I wish you guys the best, but you have no idea what you’re up against. So I kind of found out what he was talking about, you know. But I’m saying back then they used to do stuff like that. My understanding is it’s more subtle... a subtle game that takes place now. WF: What do you think Brian? Do you think it’s more subtle nowadays? BO’L: Oh, very good question, Kerry. Yes, I think it’s a bit more subtle now. I know I’ve had my own experiences and have matched it with others that go back to the early ’90s – and very unpleasant experiences where I refused to be recruited into something and there was some recrimination and some threats that I won’t go into in detail. But I think if I compare my story with that of others and look at the history of all of this... Although I can’t say for sure because like my dear friend and late colleague, Gene Mallove, was brutally murdered in ’04. KC: What do you think tipped it over the edge with Mallove? Do you think that he was too close to something or that he simply couldn’t be brought under their wing in a certain way? Why do you think they attacked him so brutally? BO’L: He was a true hero. He’s one of my heroes of my lifetime. I just tremendously respected his work because... He was the chief science writer for MIT and in 1989 Fleischmann and Pons, two chemists from the University of Utah, claimed to have discovered cold fusion, which is a process that has now been replicated many, many times over by many competent scientists. But at that time, 1989, their claim was viciously refuted by some of the nuclear physicists at MIT. Well, Mallove was going to support them in debunking the cold fusion discovery and found instead that the MIT scientists were not only falsely debunking the evidence but actually committing fraud. And so he had the courage to stand up to these scientists, and to MIT, whereupon he was summarily dismissed, [laughs] went on his own, and founded Infinite Energy Magazine, which I think is a wonderful magazine, particularly in those days when he was editor. He was a real advocate of new energy, probably the most articulate one because he was very rigorous scientifically. He would not make any claims that couldn’t be substantiated. And so, obviously from the point of view of the world controllers, he was a threat. And he was also in the process of getting funding for creating a research and development laboratory. He had been shuttling back and forth to Washington just before his murder, which, although the cover story of the murder was that it was a robbery, the real story... I would say almost anybody that knew him, including his family, are just, you know, beside themselves in trying to find out how this happened, who did it, and so forth. And so there’s an example of a real hero who was sacrificed. KC: Do you think that he was sacrificed because he was “one of them” originally and because he was so articulate and getting so close? I mean, in the sense that he worked for MIT, you know. He wasn’t just some guy with an invention in his garage. He actually, you know, came out of a very sophisticated background. BO’L: Yes. I would imagine, yes, because he was one of the shakers and movers of the field and he pulled no punches. He also had a very, very well-grounded scientific and philosophical perspective on the issues raised by the possibility of free energy. And so he just... this obviously disturbed The Powers That Be. Another example was Stefan Marinov, who was a professor of physics at the University of Graz in Austria. And also just a few years ago - I forgot the exact year, but it was early this century he “jumped” from the tenth story of his library building at the University of Graz. Well, he was Europe’s premier free energy advocate. I’d met him many times, talked with him. He seemed to be a very jolly, and very, very well-adjusted person who was doing really good breakthrough work, even had a motor that he had invented which he demonstrated and quite widely showed. So it’s just another example. There are just so many examples of suppression. John Hutchison, a dear friend of mine. We’ve toured Japan together and he’s had... Thank God he’s still alive. He’s just a brilliant man who has managed to develop dramatic demonstrations of antigravity technology, with a fantastic intuition, and just a very fine person. Well, the US military has given him no end of problems. So, you know, you look at these stories, one after another, and you have to come to the conclusion that pretty consistently right up until this moment, these developments have been suppressed. And is it getting any better? I don’t know. I know we’ve had these discussions, Kerry, and you have found some signs that it is and I would love to think that it is. I think that the people that really need to awaken here, as Wade often suggests, that the only people that seem to awaken and are able to peel the free energy onion are people that are already somewhat sentient and have had experiences in a number of different avenues – not only science, or not only being a political progressive – but that people somehow need to go through many, many different experiences in a variety of ways before they can even embrace the possibility that this could happen. I know for me, I had to go out and visit the inventors, the researchers, myself and, you know, make it a personal project to see these proofs-of-concept, and most people don’t have that luxury. And so I feel for them when somebody like me... Even though I have all these good credentials, even so, most people that call themselves “pragmatists” will kind of roll their eyes or glaze, and they won’t even look at the possibility that this could be. But then if we understand the history of science, if we understand the famous Bertrand Russell quote: The resistance to a new idea increases as the square of its importance...

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And if we’re talking about totally revamping the economy, totally revamping our energy system, totally revamping our whole industrial and financial culture, which is digging its heels in alongside the military / industrial complex, you’re talking about a revolution here, an energy-solution revolution, which... to the degree that people can become educated to this possibility and to acknowledge it – or at least lean into it – to even ask the simple question: OK, I don’t believe this is real or possible, but let’s do a mind exercise and let’s say: “Well, OK, let’s say if somebody comes along with a technology that could truly do this, do we want to have it?” And I should think that the clear answer would be Yes! as long as we can develop social and political systems to birth this whole new paradigm shift, and then we have a fighting chance, I think. And Wade, I’m sure you’d totally agree that we have a fighting chance to save the planet, to respect the Earth and nature. KC: I think that’s wonderful, Brian. I think that, you know, that’s a very good point and very well said by you. And Bill wants me to say, that most great scientists are mystics. WF: Well that’s what... I mean, if you look at the guys who... physics rides on their shoulders today, Einstein, and Heisenberg, and Schrödinger, and these guys, they all to one degree or another had a mystical orientation. And again in my own experience with my Tesla-like mentor and again the other people, my fellow travelers, again on the cutting edge of this free energy stuff, they pretty much all have a mystical orientation, to one degree or another. I mean, some are way out there. Some visit other dimensions. And some are kind of like: Oh, I think I have past lives. So there’s a spectrum there, but essentially they’re not materialists. I mean, none of them are materialists. KC: Wade, were you familiar with Mallove and his work? WF: Somewhat. I was in contact with Mallove. And again, the New Energy Movement was organizing its conference that it had in 2004 and Mallove was the first speaker lined up. And anyway, we lined him up and a week after that, which was a very strange week, very emotional... It was a bizarre week. Anyway, he gets murdered as I’m being emailed from one of the participants saying: I think we’re under attack. Anyway, I had that encounter with Mallove. Again, the thing with Mallove, with me and his work was that I read something he wrote less than a year before he died where he was saying there’s three main ways to go after free energy. And one of them was the exact thing were trying in Ventura [laughs], which was taking atmospheric heat and being able to get useful work out of it. And again, I was interested in what he had to say about that, so I contacted him and we were going to have some more exchanges, and then he died. KC: Right. OK. I’m sorry. You had spoken about that earlier on and I had forgotten about that association. Well, this is really very, very impressive. Both you guys have got such a great background in all of this and the fact that you’ve taken even your technical skills and turned them into public speaking, to where you would actually bring the knowledge to the people and make what is in essence a grassroots movement is really brilliant, you know. It’s really the best approach, I would think. So I just want to say thank you from all of us for doing that, both you, Wade Frazier, and Brian O’Leary. Have you guys known each other for a long time? WF: Well, I met Brian in ’91 when I actually had to pick him up at the airport for a New Science conference. We drove right past Wright-Patterson Air Force Base and made jokes about Hangar 18, the Blue Room, and stuff, and so that’s when I met Brian. And then when he published Miracle in the Void in ’96, I had about 35 copies of it. Anyway, Brian, it quickly became evident to me... I’d already been through my salad days on the free energy front when I met Brian, and it became very clear that Brian was hip. We’ve had interactions over the years and he invited me to be on the New Energy Movement board back in 2003. We’re living on different continents right now, but as much as I can help Brian do what he does, I’m honored to do it. BO’L: I feel the same way about you, Wade, that some of your insight, and our journeys in parallel and together, that our interactions have been very important and that there’s been a lot of learning on my part from you, in giving this a broader context than just vetting this or that new energy concept, which people still ask me for. They still come to me and say: Hey what do you think of this? What do you think of the air car? What do you think of this sonoluminescence device? I’ve now gone away from that. I’m more interested in combining politics with these concepts and also observing. Because I think, Wade, you helped radicalize me in some of the writings of Noam Chomsky and Ed Herman and so forth, that these are the kinds of guys that you would think could awaken to this, but no, they haven’t. And the same thing goes for Richard Heinberg. So we keep trying to tell them: Well, what about the possibility of this? And now and then you’ll get this scathing response from the likes of Heinberg or Mike Ruppert or some other people that you’d think would embrace these things, but somehow are still very much in denial. So it is a lonely road. And, you know, the people that I think will be taking the lead here will be brand new people, people that will come forward. And maybe this economic crisis is now providing a greater opportunity - it’s my hope anyway - for us to develop a new kind of leadership, systemically, and really start from scratch, and to make a change we can believe in [laughs] not let it just be empty slogans that respond to Wall Street and the military / industrial complex, which in turn responds to higher forces that are somehow suppressing these possibilities. KC: Thank you, Brian. That’s wonderful. What I’d like to do is bring back Bill here. But I also wanted to ask both of you if you could respond to what is it you think when you see things like, you know, the Space Shuttle and the Space Station and the way they’re dealing with this? What in essence is sending a tin can up into the air, you know? [laughs] I mean, what do you think when you see that they’re creating a new technology, supposedly planning to go to Mars and Moon? There’s a new mission underway. But what do you think about the technology they’re

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going to use to do these things, the fact that they’re still relying on this old technology? BO’L: You know, for one, I think that we’re living in the past. We’re living with past models that are falling apart. Ever since the Space Shuttle was first proposed I realized that NASA was falling apart because it was a bureaucratic invention, kind of a miasma. And the same with the Space Station, sort of a “TinkerToys” designed by aerospace companies to line their pockets. Right now the technologies we’re using are drastically old. They’re simply not worthwhile. They’re in the past. It’s expensive. It pollutes the atmosphere. The Shuttle itself contributes to the hole in the ozone layer. Every launch is something like 10-, 15-billion dollars. We can’t afford that kind of stuff. KC: What do you think about the fact that they’re planning to power the new missions using nuclear? BO’L: Ah! That’s disaster! You know, if you get me going on nuclear... I was the nuclear energy advisor to Morris Udall’s Energy and Environment subcommittee of the US congress, and our committee pretty single-handedly stopped nuclear power in its tracks. Any kind of nuclear technology, for anybody that looks at it, is highly dangerous. The long-lived radioactive waste products... we haven’t found a way to bury them. They have half-lives of tens of thousands of years. We’re polluting the Earth for our children and their children and for all of nature. We’ve gotta let go of that technology 100 percent. For nuclear technology to be used in any space application or any application on the Earth is yet another big danger-point. It’s sort of like right now humans are terror-forming the Earth with various geo-engineering projects, whether it’s the development of nuclear technology, or chemtrails, or depleted uranium. These are all horrible, horrible projects. And you see, we need to develop a new kind of advocacy, a new combination of truth movements that look at all of these things – 9/11, the official story – to kind of “pop a bubble” of the sacred myths of our time and to proceed onward with the kinds of new technologies that are clean and cheap, like free energy. We just have to do this! And people have to awaken. And right now, there aren’t very many of us that advocate that. So to the degree your listeners can begin to embrace these things and to make the leap of faith, if you will, before really finding out in great detail that a number of myths need to be destroyed, we need some sort of process of truth and reconciliation. We need to radically change our systems, and Obama is now about .00001 percent of the way in doing any of that. So it is disappointing, but we just keep having to prevail and get to the truth, which is always the first step toward realizing what we need to do. KC: Wade, what would you say about the fact that, you know, free energy exists? It’s been out there for, I don’t know, since at least the 1950s, wouldn’t you say? And yet they’re planning on powering the next mission to Mars and the Moon using nuclear fuel. WF: [laughs] Well you know, Brian is the astronaut [Kerry laughs] so I definitely defer to Brian’s opinion on those things. But it’s a thing where... KC: Right... WF: Actually, what Brian was just discussing, I have a short anecdote, which was: Dennis and I spoke at Department of Energy hearings back in 1997 when they were trying to do the, what’s called “the whip,” which was the low-intensity nuclear waste, not the place in Nevada where they still... it’s not even big enough to hold what they got today. It was the thing where we approached them with neutralization technology to make nuclear waste, I mean, to neutralize it. And we were using Brown’s Gas. Long story there. But anyway, interestingly, we spoke there and we were located right next to this Savannah facility, like on Atomic Boulevard. Anyway, Dennis and I spoke at a couple of hearings that day. And the interesting thing was that the most excited person at the hearing was the person who organized it. And at the lunch break, he actually follows us out to the car and gives us his card and stuff. And he said that we were the third group that attended these hearings to present a neutralization technology. And he said, and I’ll never forget this, he said: You know, the people managing nuclear waste stand to make a ton of money doing this. If your answer doesn’t make them a ton of money, it won’t go anywhere. And then he said: You know, I’m an underling with no power, but I’ll see what I can do, you know, [laughs] and of course nothing happened. Anyway, so to me, yes, as Brian said, actually using nuclear fission to actually power these missions and stuff – it’s nightmarish. It’s totally nightmarish. In fact, when I know that other, [laughs] totally clean, benign technologies exist and we’re using this, you know – extremely primitive. As Einstein said: Nuclear fission’s one hell of a way to boil water. You know. So, it’s just really horrifying. It’s actually horrifying that we’re doing these things. KC: OK. Thank you so much, both of you guys, because that’s great to hear you say that and of course to hear, you know, an astronaut talk about the absurdity of using nuclear fuel to send missions out... and here we are in 2009. It just kind of boggles the mind. This has to be a fake, you know, front game, really, for what is really going on behind the scenes, you have to believe, in terms of NASA and what’s really going on there. But what I’ll do here is... Bill, can you come forward and sort of ask a few questions yourself? And I’ll translate if necessary. BR: [laughs] OK. Thank you. I just want to thank all of you, actually, because ever since I realized that my British James Bond shaken-but-not-stirred accent wasn’t totally understandable there, I’ve been sitting in the front row of this audience, hugely enjoying this conversation. And I want to thank you very much for that. And, Kerry, thanks a lot for stepping into the MC’s shoes here, because I know that you hadn’t prepared yourself

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quite as much for this interview as I had by reading Wade’s voluminous 1200-page website that I invite anyone to take a lucky dip into because it is encyclopedic. Brian has already answered the final question that I wanted to put to you both, which was what changes does he really hope to see in his lifetime? And what I would like to do is just to ask Wade briefly... if you can say something to that, that would inspire any young activists, because they are out there. We hear from them regularly, people who are on a steep learning curve, and a lot of energy, and who haven’t yet had that energy blunted. We know that they’re out there, and those people will find a way to listen to this conversation because it’s going to be very important to them. And the opportunity here is to leave those people with something that will inspire and encourage them to pick up the torch which you two have both been carrying, and of course many others have been carrying this torch as well. What can you leave these young warriors with, to help them continue with what you’ve considered your life’s work to be? WF: Well thank you. What my message would be is: You are not pursuing something ephemeral. You’re pursuing things that are very real. OK? These are very real. This stuff’s real. It’s not a fantasy. It’s not some crazy conspiracy theory. This is very real stuff. And the potential of this is something that none of us can really fathom. We really can’t fathom what the potential of something like this is. And so, I don’t know... I mean, I don’t know... to me that seems worthwhile! KC: You know, Wade, your life itself and also Brian’s life, both of you are an inspiration in itself. I mean, your actual life experience - and sharing that - is very powerful. And I’m very happy that Bill was scientifically astute enough to be able to target and find you out because you’re not really in the mainstream at the moment. But you’re obviously a person that deserves great respect, as does Brian. And it’s really lovely to hear you speak about your background and all, so I just want to thank you very much, both of you. BR: I think this has been an excellent conversation. I want to thank you both for your time and your commitment. It’s a long rough road, I think, that you two guys have been on, and by speaking out so energetically and positively, I think that you will have done a lot to encourage an interest and enlighten some of these young activists who we know will be watching this – because this torch must be picked up. It’s a torch that must grow more and more brightly. I’m convinced now, Wade, having read a lot of your site, that free energy is such a huge issue, and also I should say having read several of Brian’s books as well. It goes everywhere. It goes into the environment. It goes into the economy. It goes into politics. It goes into control agendas. It goes into every aspect of society that we know about. This is why it’s really at the heart of everything, and of course this is why the activists do get stomped on so hard. But you’re still standing! And we acknowledge and salute you for that and thank you very much indeed for your inspiration to everyone who will be listening to this. BO’L: Thank you, Bill. WF: Thank you, Bill. And thank you for what you and Kerry are doing. It’s important work. Thanks for being there.

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Project Camelot: Dr. Joseph Farrell - Nazi International
Laughlin, Nevada, February 2009
Introduction Bill Ryan (BR): .So our job is to help you get your information out to the maximum amount of people. Joseph Farrell (JF): Okay. BR: And the people who do watch this information are a very eclectic bunch. We’ve got 16-year-old kids who’ve just woken up last month saying: What’s going on around here? Tell me. Tell me. And then we’ve got seasoned researchers like yourself, and even insiders themselves, who watch our videos to get a feel for what’s really going on.
--- I attempted to stress in my most recent book, NAZI INTERNATIONAL, that the postwar Nazis were not merely tiny enclaves of war criminals huddled, panic-stricken, together in tiny enclaves in Latin America and elsewhere. They were, on the contrary, highly organized, well-funded, had their own intelligence and security apparatus, and most importantly, were conducting and continuing the lines of research they had begun during the war. Dr. Joseph P. Farrell

JF: Okay. BR: And so, one of the reasons why we wanted to talk to you was because you’re a very cogent, lucid and articulate presenter of some very difficult information. I’m sure other people have told you that as well, but we recognize that. JF: Okay.

The title of this interview, Nazi International, refers to Joseph Farrell's latest book, in which he details - as do Camelot witnesses Jim Marrs and Peter Levenda, and many other researchers (including Jim Keith, who died in unusual circumstances and to whom we pay tribute here) - how the Nazis were experimenting with technology extremely advanced for their time, and how many Nazi scientists, evaluated as being valuable resources for post-war America, were repatriated to the US under Project Paperclip. We first heard of Joseph Farrell from Richard Hoagland - and soon after from Nick Cook, the author of The Hunt for Zero Point. Farrell, like Peter Levenda, is essentially an academic: a document researcher who digs deep into historical detail and has become fascinated, as many others have, with the hidden history of the Third Reich. He has continued Igor Witkowski's and Nick Cook's research into the enigmatic Nazi Bell: an experimental device, classified at the highest level, that seems to have been used to investigate time distortion effects or antigravity - very possibly both - based on the beginnings of theoretical torsion physics that was being developed in the 1920s and 1930s by a number of brilliant European scientists, themselves very much ahead of their time. In this interview, Bill Ryan takes the lead and talks with Joseph Farrell in some depth about his work. The interview takes the viewer on a journey which starts before the Second World War, and explores just what German scientists may have been doing in great secret, with the full support of the SS. And, as the title of the video indicates, the story by no means ends there. This video may be of considerable interest to students of wartime advanced technology, and of the hidden history of the Third Reich.

BR: And we apologize for putting you under the camera here, to the extent that you don’t have your slide slow. [Farrell laughs]. You don’t have any prompts and you don’t have any notes. JF: I’ll do shadows. [laughs] BR: The feeling we had about you is that you have a very good grasp of your information, and we respect that as well. So here we go. We’re rolling. Start of interview So... I’m Bill Ryan from Project Camelot. I’m here with my colleague Kerry Cassidy and we’re delighted to also be here with Joseph Farrell. And off camera just a few moments ago I checked that it was okay to call you Joe... JF: Oh, absolutely. BR: ...‘cause we’re among friends here, and that makes me feel a little bit more relaxed. You may be wondering, and some of our viewers may be wondering how come this is Bill here who’s doing this interview. And just as a little bit of a personal introduction about myself, and also maybe to some of our newer viewers, I’m... If we were the real X-Files, I would actually be Scully. [laughter] Okay? Meaning, I’m the one who’s slightly more scientific, slightly more skeptical, slightly more cautious... JF: Right.

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BR: ...and this is why, between us, many people feel, and we feel ourselves, that we make quite a good team. So I have a math and physics background. JF: Okay. BR: I tend not to leap to wild conclusions, but at the same time I’m very happy to think out of the box... JF: Sure. BR: ...as I strongly suspect you do as well. JF: Right. BR: So you’re quite a polymath. BR: And one of the reasons why we really wanted to talk to youbesides the very high professional quality of your presentation on various interviews that we listened to, to prepare ourselves for this—is that the pieces of the jigsaw that you have collected through your diligent research seem to us to be essential understanding for anyone who really wants to know what’s going on today in geopolitics, in terms of “black science”, maybe even in terms of global agenda, who’s running the show, how it all started, where it all started, and when it all started. JF: Okay. BR: And for the benefit of some of our viewers who may not know who you are... JF: Okay. [laughs] BR: ...despite that introduction, give us your elevator speech about: Who is Joe Farrell? And how did you come to do what you’re doing right now? JF: Well, Cliff Notes version: My father was an engineer, so I kind of grew up in a household where science was always kind of a main thing to be stressed, and I’ve always been, you know, individually interested in it. For quite a long period when I was a child, and all through high school later on, I wanted to be a physicist. And then, my senior year I got senioritis, I’m afraid, and wimped out of calculus and selected music theory as my alternative study, but [laughs] that proved to be almost as difficult, if not more so. So I was also a musician and I got into music. And then when I was in college I took philosophy and that diverted me even further away from my original goal, into philosophy and ancient texts. I’ve also always been interested in history and ancient things, and mysteries, and so on and so forth. So I did my Ph.D. in England and then taught college for a number of years. BR: In Oxford? Were you in Oxford? JF: No, no. I wasn’t a professor at all at Oxford. I just did my Ph.D. there. I actually taught college in Oklahoma. It was mostly philosophy and history, but I did do an inter-disciplinary seminar at one period of time. That was a team-taught seminar, and the way the other professor and I had to kind of divvy up the various disciplines that we were trying to pull together... Well, she was a JF: Ah... I have a lot of interests. Yeah. I wouldn’t say polymath, but, yeah, I’ve got a broad spectrum of interests. [laughs] BR: You’ve already answered one of my questions, which is how come it appears evidently that you have such a grasp of the physics which your research has led you to be entangled with, if I can use that word. JF: Oh yeah. Well, when I was growing up I was the quintessential nerd. I mean, fun for me when I was a boy was playing with my daddy’s slide rule, you know? [laughs] So that kind of gives you the idea of what kind of person... I’ve always been a reader and to this day I still like to try and find physics papers online and pull ’em up and read ’em, and see what’s going on. So that’s kind of what I am. BR: Well good for you because it sounds like, from what we can gather, having talked to mutual colleagues such as Richard Hoagland... JF: Right. BR: ...and Jim Marrs, who we interviewed just this morning, is that you’re providing a real service in the information chain, as it were, in terms of providing researchers—who are trying their best to assemble a big picture—with some specific drilled-down components that you seem eminently qualified to have stumbled across. Or perhaps that sounds too clumsy. Actually, maybe you’ve been going after them very deliberately ever since you realized that there was something to go after. JF: Maybe. BR: Do you think that that is correct? JF: Maybe somewhere between the two. One of the things that always struck me... My academic background is actually in theology, and it always struck me that many of the methods that theologians use are very similar, in some respects, to methods that physicists use. And that may sound wildly contradictory to what most people would think. But in looking at ancient texts, particularly philosophical texts, it always struck me that I was looking at a kind of a topological metaphor rather than specifically a metaphysical text. And the biologist so she handled certain things, and I got physics because that’s always been kind of a hobby even though I abandoned the professional pursuit of it, so... We also discovered we had a common interest, as it were, in the esoteric and alternative things, and I presented some of my Pyramid ideas to her and she says: Oh, you’ve got to do that for the class. So I did it for the class and they kind of really liked it, much to my surprise. After I quit college teaching I decided: Well, you know I might as well bite the bullet and write some of my crazy ideas down. So that’s kind of [laughs] how I got started in all of this. That’s how it came about.

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further I went back, the more apparent that metaphor became, to the point that it even became possible to notate certain concepts in text with the actual notation conventions of topology. So I thought, well, you know: That’s kind of wild! [laughs] So I didn’t share it. Doing the Ph.D., I didn’t share that idea with anybody, you know. But after I quit college teaching I began to look at texts that way, and to see... And I had done it privately. I’m not saying that, you know, all of a sudden I decided to do this. I’d been doing it privately for a number of years and keeping little notebooks of it. But yeah. It was kind of half-accident, and kind of an on-going interest. So somewhere between the two. BR: But there’s something that must have got you started specifically on the treasure-trail that led you to putting together a lot of the sub-jigsaw that was: What were the Nazis really doing before and during World War Two... JF: Right. BR: ...that nobody else seems to have really realized? What was it that led you in that direction? What were the first things you found? JF: Well, the thing that always struck me that I don’t think has... And I don’t even include myself in this category. The thing that has always struck me about what kind of research the Nazis were doing is, on the one hand you have a definite esoteric, occult influence and interest that midwifes the Nazi Party into existence. You have a definite esoteric and occult influence at work after the Nazis take power. And, you know, one of the things I like to point out is that the Nazi “State” with the SS and Heinrich Himmler, when he creates the Ahnenerbe Dienst, [ed. note: Ahnenerbe Service]the so-called Ancestral Research Bureau... If you go to the Nuremberg Tribunals and pull up the brief—you have to kind of dig for it but you can eventually find it—it’s a short little statement, declaration, that establishes this thing. But one of the things that he puts in as one of the purposes for this department is that it is to investigate all of these areas for their potential military application. Okay? So we have that influence at work. And then, on the other hand, as you know, being mathematics and physics background, you have during that period of—oh, say 1920 up to about 1931, ’32— you have this spate of publications in Germany of various Unified Field Theories: Kaluza, Einstein, Eddington, and so on and so forth. So you have that kind of scientific ferment at work. And then of course you add Gabriel Kron into the mix, a Hungarian fellow, electrical engineer who says: Hey! You know, he wins a prize at the University of Liège in Belgium for a paper in which he says: Well, we electrical engineers notice all of these anomalies in large rotating electrical systems, and we can explain those anomalies by appealing to these higherdimensional physics Unified Field Theories. So in other words, if you stop and think of the implications of what he said, the technology of electrical circuitry, circa 1935, is producing anomalies only explainable by these higherdimensional mathematical / physics theories. He’s telling you, in other words: These theories are engineer-able. They may be incomplete in the theoretical sense, but they’re nonetheless engineer-able theories. And that’s an important statement. BR: Which is highly significant because he’s marrying two totally different worlds. JF: Oh yes. Absolutely. Yes. BR: Engineering in the practical; and the abstruse in the mathematical. JF: Absolutely. Absolutely. And you know, one of the things that struck me... I’ve just acquired some of Kron’s papers. I went out and bought one of his books, a little old Dover book publication. But what he does is, he takes the tensor calculus and uses it as a way of analyzing electrical machines. BR: Now this is Einstein’s tensor calculus from his 1928 Unified Field paper? JF: Yeah. This is... Right. And one of the things specifically that you’ll notice in Kron—although he doesn’t come right out and tell you: I’m now going to show you how torsion works—is he appeals to that very concept. So you’ve got these two very different things going on as kind of an intellectual ferment in Germany at the time. You’ve got the esoteric and occult interest, and you have this very abstruse theoretical and engineering interest. Now, I’ve always suspected that there is some sort of connection between the two. And this is kind of what got me interested in the whole “Bell” story, because the department of the German government that is conducting all of this very exotic research is precisely the SS. BR: What year are we talking about now? JF: That’s another good question. the Bell project itself, I think you can make a kind of a case, actually has its conceptual kind of proof-of-concept stage beginnings before the Nazis take power, and may have been as early as circa 1924 and ’25. BR: That early!? JF: That early. The reason that I say that is in one of my books I reproduce this little, oh, kind of a two-column filler article that ran in the Frankfurter Allgameine Zeitung, I think it was, but it was written by none other than Dr. Walther Gerlach. Now Walther Gerlach, you know, he’s one of the most famous physicists at that time of history. He’s a Nobel Prize winner, you know... the famous Stern-Gerlach experiment. I thought: Well whoa! Because what he’s talking about in this article is the possibility of the transmutation of elements, specifically in regard to mercury-to-gold, and he’s calling it a “new alchemy.” And that just really brought me up short. Because you know, this is, number one, before the discovery of

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nuclear fission by Otto Hahn. Okay? So he’s got some very different concept in his head. BR: He’s a smart guy, he‘s not a... JF: [laughs] He’s a very smart guy! Yeah. This is not a secondstringer, you know. And when he uses this word alchemy, it’s crystal clear. I even reproduced the original German article and then translated it, so you know that I’m not making this stuff up, folks. BR: It’s the same word in German, isn’t it? JF: Oh yeah. Alchemy. You can see it right there in an article. So he writes this article and then, it’s very clear, he makes a kind of a final little statement, that, you know: This should be investigated further and to do so it’s going to—hint, hint— require a lot of money. [laughs] So this is kind of the typical scientist’s appeal to the government. All right? BR: Okay. JF: Well, the reason I think that the project may have begun at this time is because it is precisely Dr. Walther Gerlach who is the project head of the Bellfor the Nazis. BR: Okay. Now, Joe, I wonder if I could stop you here, because what we’ve got here is we’ve got the first ten minutes of what’s sounding like a really interesting movie where [Farrell laughs] no one’s quite sure what’s going on here... JF: Yeah. BR: ...but they’re interested. JF: Okay. BR: Now, for our viewers, Okay? We’ve talked about Einstein; tensor calculus—something that sounds very abstrusely mathematical that... JF: It is! [laughs] BR: ...no one will understand; the Nazis; and something called the Bell. So what’s the plot-line here? Why should anyone... JF: Pay attention to this? BR: ...care about this extraordinary story? JF: All right. Very simple. It’s my belief... Just to give you kind of a very short Cliff Notes answer, it’s my belief, number one, that the Nazi atom bomb project was successful. Now, what I’m gonna do is simply ask your viewers to accept that as kind of a “given” for the sake of argument so that I can kind of set the context. Okay? If you look at the project classification of the Bell, the Nazis classified it as kriegsentscheidend—[ed. note: war decisive]. In other words, within the classification system of the Third Reich, the Bell was classified absolutely uniquely and at the very pinnacle of the system, and it is the ONLY project in Nazi Germany to be given that specific classification. In other words, higher than the atom bomb. Okay? So in other words, to the Nazis the atom bomb is, you know, already kind of “old stuff.” [laughs] Okay? So that gives an indicator of what the significance is. But if you look at the physics that they’re trying to investigate, I believe they’re investigating it for three things—for the purposes of achieving three things. Number one, they want to free Germany from energy dependence on foreign powers and foreign oil. So, in other words, they’re investigating the so-called “zero point” energy. Okay? Number two, the same sort of physics they have seen is kind of a gateway or window into advanced field propulsion, or antigravity if you want to call it that. And the third thing of course, Nazis being Nazis, is that they want to engineer this physics for a weapon. And of course we’re dealing now with the physics that, again, can engineer the fabric of space-time, locally. BR: Okay. Now, just once again to summarize this before we go into even more detail. JF: Sure. BR: What you’re referring to here is, you’ve picked up the research line that was started by... JF: Igor Witkowski. BR: ...Nick Cook and Igor Witkowski. This thing that seems to have been called... well, for lack of a better word The Nazi Bell. We don’t know what they called it, do we? JF: Well, actually they did call it Die Glocke. BR: Die Glocke. JF: And they had another nickname for it: Der Bienenstock—the beehive... BR: The beehive. JF: ...because of the sound it made. But one of the actual project code names was Projekt Cronos, or Project Time. Now, many people leap to the conclusion that well, they’re trying to build a time machine. Well, no. That’s... Time is involved because, again, you’re trying to use torsion to tap into the ability to manipulate the fabric of space-time. BR: What’s torsion? JF: All right. Torsion. The way I like to illustrate it very simply is: If you take a soda can and empty the soda out of it and then wring it like a dishrag, you’ve got that counter-rotating motion, and it’s going to spiral and fold and pleat that can, and then draw

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the ends of the can closer together. So that kind of is my simplistic illustration of what torsion does. And the can itself would represent space-time, okay? What I think Nazism really did is it freed those people in a certain way to think outside the box, and all of that outside-thebox thinking took place inside the confines of the SS. And the signal event that kicks all this loose now in modern times—the reason we’re finding out about it—is precisely German Reunification. Why? BR: Right. JF: Because when the Eastern Zone is basically annexed in a shotgun wedding by West Germany... and that’s exactly how I would describe it. When that happens, all of those old SS installations in the Eastern Zone—some of which the Soviets didn’t even get into, you know. The SS blew ’em up and the Soviets never bothered to go into them. The Germans went back in there and looked at all this stuff, and it wasn’t showing up on any radar screen connected with rockets or jet aircraft or poison gas, you know, any of the other stuff that they were doing. And so they began to wonder: Well, what’s going on here? Now, what they’re doing... I think ultimately, for the Nazis, the purpose of this is they want to weaponize it. And of course—and I say this over and over again in my interviews—if you’re dealing with a technology that has the potential to engineer space-time, that means that if you weaponize that, potentially you have a weapon that would make a hydrogen bomb look like a firecracker. It’s truly planet-busting stuff if you’ve got the proper engineering behind it and, you know, develop appropriate power systems and so on. Which again... one and the same thing will lead to zeropoint energy, so there’s your power, [laughs] you know? BR: And there’re some very smart scientists in that time. JF: Oh yes! Absolutely. BR: One might actually say “the world’s finest”, would you say? JF: I would say so. And again, you know, this is why I kind of prefaced my remarks by mentioning the atom bomb, because the kind of the post-war Allied legend, as I like to call it, is of course the Germans were a bunch of nuclear bunglers, you know. And they didn’t have enough manpower. And they didn’t have enough money, you know, and all of this happy nonsense that you hear in the textbooks. Well, to me this story really doesn’t make much sense. And you’re right. They’ve got Heisenberg. They’ve got Hartek. I mean, these people are not second-stringers at all. So yeah, what the Germans are doing... And I want to emphasize here the importance of why Nazism would be the ideological cauldron for this, because Nazism of course had banned “Jewish physics”. In other words: Relativity. And they even had ideological difficulties with aspects of quantum mechanics because it was too statistical. It was too probabilistic. It wasn’t deterministic enough for some of the Nazi ideologues. But what is implied by this in the standard history is that within Nazi Germany you have an absolute stamping out of the scientific method and a dead-ending of physics. But I think if you look now, a hundred years after Relativity, we see precisely that physics has dead-ended. We have this kind of dogma in place now. And then of course Igor finds that very strange “henge”-like structure there in Ludwikowice, I think in Poland, which used to be Ludwigsdorf, and he’s wondering: What is this? [laughs] You know? Why is this here? And of course this kicks loose the spate of declassification. This kicks loose a bunch of people coming forward from the old Eastern Zone, now able to talk about what they saw, what they observed. So this has kicked loose a fantastic amount of information. BR: It’s very interesting what you are saying about the... Let me rephrase what you’re saying: The crucible of the state’s support and the state’s agenda was a perfect support system for a scientist who wanted the funding and the motivation... JF: And to think outside the box. BR: ...and all the resources to go and play with his toys and to do what all scientists really want to do, which is to invent something wild... JF: [laughs] Yes! Exactly! BR: ...that works. JF: That’s exactly right. BR: And what some of our listeners will already be thinking is, like... they’ll be thinking: Wait a minute! This is what’s happening in Los Alamos and Hughes and Sandia and Bell Labs right now. JF: Uh huh! Yes. That’s right. Yes! BR: At a different time and in a different Reich—[Farrell laughs]—which is what Jim Marrs would say. JF: Yeah. I wouldn’t have much of an argument with him either! [laughs]

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BR: But what I also think you’re saying, at the risk of putting words into your mouth, is that if we want to understand that stuff that I just mentioned, then we need to go back to exactly this paper trail that you’ve been following, because what we’re seeing nowadays is the progeny of that. Is that correct? JF: Yeah. Nazi Germany is, you know, it’s really a weird state when you examine the scientific implications of it because... Let me go back to that SS department that Himmler sets up. Okay, you’re gonna go out there and you’re gonna research the Aryan heritage—if we look at the Nazi state and we go back to what Himmler sets up with this department—and he says: All right. Go out and investigate all of the aspects of the ancient Aryan heritage. But the mission brief is broad enough that he gives them. Basically you have a department of the Nazi state created specifically for the purpose to investigate the esoteric, the occult, the hermetic, whatever you want to call all of this ancient lore, okay? For the specific purpose of military application. BR: This again sounds eerily reminiscent of what we hear coming out of certain places in America right now. JF: Yeah! Right. But here, what I’m emphasizing here, and what I want to kind of tie into what you said, is that this is the first time in modern history that a major world power has invested serious financial and personnel resources to do this. And it’s very, very clear, you know, in Nazi Germany’s case. So we have this cauldron, this crucible that, you know... I take kind of almost diametrically the opposite tack that a standard academic historian would give you of this Aryan physics. We know what the failures are. I mean, they’re palpable. They’re blatant. But the reason we don’t know about the successes, and the reason that we’re only hearing about them now, is not only German Reunification but precisely because that crucible was in the SS. It was all classified. It was also deeply black. But yeah, by freeing them from so-called “Jewish physics”, what they’re really saying is: We want you to think outside the box. We want you to come up with a completely different paradigm of physics. And if it’s engineer-able, [claps hands] go do it. BR: Okay. Now, interestingly enough, just last week we spoke with Peter Levenda. Do you know him and his work? JF: Oh yes. Yeah. I know Peter. BR: We were delighted to talk with him and, of course, he’s somebody who... JF: Oh yes. BR: ...is a document researcher like yourself. And he described to us how he went to the very famous archivist, Dr. Wolfe... JF: Okay. Yes. And when I saw that I thought: Oh boy! Because of course in the Bell, you know—which I rationalize as basically a kind of hyperdimensional torsion physics device—you’ve got these two counter-rotating drums into which they’re putting this highdensity liquid, which I think may have even incorporated an isomer as one of its components. And of course an isomer is one BR: ...who showed him the archives of the SS Ahnenerbe. JF: Oh boy! [laughs] BR: And his words were that his jaw dropped. He never knew such a thing existed. It’s really interesting to us that you’ve been down that same rabbit-hole. And what I’d love to ask you about—if this doesn’t deviate from your thought-line here—is: What is the connection between this hard, but brilliant and outof-the-box physics, with the occult? JF: I think... Again, if you go back to the remarks I began with, I think if you go far enough back and look at certain types of texts, for example, the Hermetica, okay? And read them without the standard academic approach with metaphysics eyeglasses on, and read them rather as a topologist--as a mathematician—would read these texts, or as even a materials engineer, you know, might read these texts, what pops out of these things is a profound metaphor of a physical medium that creates information, and that’s a very modern idea. In fact, it’s so modern, you know, it starts popping up in the Soviet Union in the 1970s and begins to kind of spread from there. All of this stuff is popping out of the Soviet Union. So in other words, way back when—if we go back to the Hermetica—here we’re dealing with a text approximately, oh give or take, you know, 2,000 years old, so in others words... But it’s an Egyptian text even though it’s written in Greek. Its provenance is clearly Egyptian, okay? So this is very old and yet it contains this profoundly sophisticated physics metaphor. That’s what really popped out at me, you know, when I was reading these texts. It wasn’t that I was supposed to be looking and seeing Platonic Universals, you know, the chair-of-all-chairs and the horse-of-all-horses. No. None of that was what was popping out at me. What Plato’s talking about is topology. He’s talking about common surfaces with common forms, okay? So I’m looking at this, and then I’m looking at the Nazis, and they’re coming up with these theories essentially in the ’20s and ’30s that are looking at the physical medium as an engineer-able reality. In other words, in a certain sense, as an information-creating medium. So... And again, the key to creating stable information is rotation, okay? Torsion, and so on and so forth. So I’m thinking: Well, this appears to be precisely what we see going on with this Bell project. They are somehow pursuing this idea of physics. And one of the things that leapt out at me that kind of made this connection very clear is... In my book, The Philosopher’s Stone, I refer to a fellow by the name of “Himmler’s Rasputin”—if you can imagine [laughs] Heinrich Himmler having a personal Rasputin! Well this guy’s name is Karl Maria Wiligut. Okay? He has a number of aliases that he wrote esoteric treatises under. But his basic conception is that the whole universe arises out of a tension between two counter-rotating spirals which create the “World Egg”. Okay?

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of these high-spin isotopes, that if you de-excite it, it will release massive amounts of energy. Well, you’ve got these two counter-rotating drums, and I’m thinking: Well, here’s the physics that they’re doing, and we’ve got these two counter-rotating things. And over here, Himmler’s Rasputin is saying: Well, this is all coming out of two counterrotating systems. You know? So I think, clearly, you had an ideological culture in the SS that, rather than inhibiting scientific progress, really kind of forced them to pursue all of this higherdimensional physics. BR: It actually gave them an inspirational boost. JF: Yes. Yeah, exactly. And, you know, the kind of... the final nail in the coffin, as far as I’m concerned is, if you look at the swastika itself, you know, and view that as not so much the corporate logo of the Nazi Party but as an ideogram of this whole physics idea... BR: It looks like a vector diagram. JF: Yeah. It looks like a vector diagram. Exactly! You know, you’ve got a subsystem of rotation, you’ve got a subsystem of stress, and you throw ‘em together and twist that thing, and there’s your parallel transports in the tensor calculus... and voila, you know, [laughs] you’re on your way. Kerry Cassidy (KC): In a sense, that symbol came out of India. JF: Oh sure. Yeah. KC: They actually went back to the original meaning of the symbol, and picked up on it because it was supposed to have been... JF: Yes. Bingo. Bingo! Exactly! And, you know, if you kind of can imagine Walther Gerlach being challenged, you know. Let’s assume the project’s underway when the Nazis take power. Gerlach got his wish. He got funding from the Weimar government, and he’s doing his spin experiments, okay? He was fascinated with spin and magnetic resonance and gravitation, you know. He corresponded with the Austrian physicist, Thirring. You know, the Lense-Thirring Effect. Satellite drag and all this, you know. This was his bag. So imagine the Nazis coming in and saying: Well, Professor Doktor Gerlach, we’re going to shut your project down. It looks too suspicious to us. It’s dealing in areas we don’t want to deal with. It’s not part of our ideology. Well, all Gerlach has to do is say: Herr Himmler, it’s right there on your armband. He’s already sold them, in a certain sense! [Bill laughs] And you’re right. Because the other thing about the Bell that I should mention in this context with India is that this Xerum 525 that they’re putting inside this device and spinning up... Well, number one, it’s a liquid. Number two, it’s of heavy density. Number three, it’s of a kind of a maroonish-violet color, okay? Very heavy. So I’m thinking: A liquid metal. Mercury. So probably mercury is one thing. And there’s your connection to India. Because of KC: What about the vimanas? You know, what was in essence flying saucers way back when? Do you think that they might have gotten the idea there? JF: From those ancient texts? Let me put it this way: I don’t think it’s even necessary to say that that might have been a motivation. However, within the culture of the SS that is conducting this research, you’re going to have one department, the Ahnenerbe, reading these texts and taking them to the scientists to analyze. And the scientists are going to look at these things and say: Oh, isn’t that interesting? Because over here Professor Doctor Gerlach has been studying this. He won a Nobel Prize for examining aspects of this type of physics, and he’s been investigating and researching ever since. And they’re putting these two things together. I think that’s what’s happening in Nazi Germany. They’re doing the first attempt, in a certain sense, to go back at these ancient texts and say they contain a scientific metaphor, and therefore a technology. And we have these papers now that we can see this. Let’s try and reconstruct it. This is a vital thing because that means they have also seen—and this is, again, a part of Nazi ideological belief—that there was a very sophisticated ancient civilization. So in another sense then, yeah, they’re trying to reconstruct this stuff. In that sense they’re kind of a resurrection of Atlantis. BR: Hmm. KC: Then are they looking at the Egyptian pyramids and the Sumerian seals… JF: They’re looking at everything. [laughs] KC: …and they’re getting all kinds of clues. JF: Oh yeah! Absolutely they are, you know… BR: Because at exactly the same time as this they were mounting expeditions all over the world to try and get hold of… JF: Oh yes. BR: …anything they could get a hold of. JF: Oh yes. course as you know, in the vimana texts you have references to mercury vortexes. And, just to kind of make a final nail in the coffin, mercury’s kind of an ideal candidate if you’re going to use plasmas in this thing. And again, you know, you have astrophysicists in Germany— Houtermans—looking at the sun thinking: Okay, we’ve got nuclear fusion up there. And they’ve already noticed the sun rotates but the plasma is rotating at different velocities, so you’ve got this “differential rotation” they call it, but that’s just a fancy word for, you know, it’s rotating at different velocities. And they’re putting all this together in this device.

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BR: That would give them clues to all of this, right? JF: Well, in this regard, this idea of an ancient civilization in trying to get clues into it; you’re familiar with the ‘38-39 Schafer expedition to Tibet. BR: Yes. JF: Okay. Well, Himmler was a personal sponsor of this. What I find interesting is that, in spite of the heavy influence of the British Raj in Tibet, the Nazis not only were able to gain entry into the Potala from the regions. They came out of Tibet with an entire copy—as Peter Levenda’s research establishes—an entire copy of the Kangschur; this ancient Tibetan epic which is supposed to be about this very sophisticated ancient civilization. And they make it back to Germany with this. BR: And they knew its importance. JF: Oh yes absolutely they did, absolutely they did. KC: So some of their technology could have come from Tibet as well? JF: I think some of their technology has to... Some of their thinking has to come from looking at these texts and looking at all of these very abstruse ideas in physics and putting them together because they fit so snuggly at places at times that it really is astonishing. You know, I didn’t dare write about any of this when I was a professor. [laughs] That’s why I wait until after I get out of there. Now I’ll write it down. BR: The least one can say about it is that this is all the work of intuitive genius. JF: Yes, I… BR: That’s the least one can say. JF: That’s the least that one can say. And again, the fact that we have an organized department of the government—and a secret one at that—doing this, that means it’s organized. BR: Yup! JF: And that, to me, implies that—as you’re implying—that to me indicates that there is some deliberation being taken in thinking and rationalizing all of this out. BR: Okay. Now let me just dispose of one question here that our viewers will want me to ask. JF: Sure. [laughs] BR: Actually, and secretly, I want to ask it myself too. This is the claimed inference of the Vril Society; those young girls who were channeling, remote viewing, accessing clairvoyant information—whatever you want to call it. JF: Okay. BR: That’s been much vaunted… JF: Yes. BR: …by theorists who claim that they were accessing information that may have come from other realms or other planets or whatever. JF: Right. BR: What’s your take on that? JF: I don’t base my analysis of the Bell Project, or anything like that, on channeled information or on Neo-Nazi sources. My problem with this story is precisely those two things. That it comes, first of all, from a source that is anecdotal and, secondly, that the ultimate source that’s putting it out has some very shady kind of Neo-Nazi ties, okay? And there’s no other corroboration of it other than the fact that we know that something called the Vril Society did exist, and we know it because it was the German rocket scientist Willy Ley that first mentioned it when he came over to this country to escape the Nazis. BR: Mm-hm. JF: Okay. So we know that that society existed. We don’t know much about it. They did publish a small thin little brochure in Berlin prior to the war. I haven’t been able to get a hold of it. I don’t know what it’s contents are. So, as far as I’m concerned, this is a story that, number one, has kind of a suspect origin and, number two, I haven’t been able to find anything other than this story to corroborate that the Nazis were doing this. I do know that the Ahnenerbe is doing research that we would now consider paranormal or psychic or remote viewing or what have you. Certainly they were. So you’ve got a general context in which something like that might have taken place, but they are alleging that this took place toward the end—in fact in some cases during World War One and toward the end of World War One—long before the Nazis are even on the scene. BR: I thought it was in the twenties. JF: No. I think one of these was 1916 and another one was in 19—and again, I may be mistaken—1919 I think, close to Berchtesgarten, which is another unusual little coincidence [laughs] in this story, but... KC: But did you investigate the remote viewing, like the origins of remote viewing, in the Nazi… JF: No, no I haven’t. That’s an aspect of the story I think again that is going to come out eventually. The problem now is getting... There are massive amounts of Ahnenerbe documents in the US national archives, but many of them are still unavailable, so the problem is being able to tell a complete story. You see, that’s the whole problem here. It’s not that I don’t think that there is one but right now all we have with the Vril Society is a kind of a general kind of corroboration of a context.

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BR: Yes. And presumably you’re also sort of invoking Occam’s Razor by saying it’s not necessary to… JF: To go there. BR: I understand that. JF: Exactly. It’s not necessary because you have another occult influence at work already within the SS that has a specifically detailed conceptual relationship to the physics being investigated with the Bell and that’s this guy Wiligut. BR: Yeah. JF: Right. So you really don’t even need to go there. It would be kind of nice icing on the cake, you know, if they figured out: Well, consciousness plays a role in this too and we’re going to investigate that. Well if they’re rationalizing things to that extent, yeah, then we’re in even deeper trouble. [laughs] BR: Okay. Now after all those fascinating set-ups… JF: Okay. [laughs] BR: …our viewers here, who are thinking this sounds like a detective story; this sounds like Columbo... JF: Or a bad Oliver B movie. [laughs] BR: What was the Bell? What were they trying to do? And what is known what is not known what is theorized and why is this important? JF: Okay, let me give you the basic data points and then I’ll give you how I kind of rationalize them. My rationalization of it is a bit different that Igor Witkowski and Nick Cook although I kind of build on some aspects of their analysis. First of all it’s a device, it’s bell shaped, it stands about twelve to fifteen feet high, nine to twelve feet wide. It’s either cased in a kind of a ceramic metal or just plain old ceramic. It’s got heavy duty electrical port cable—electrical cabling ports—around the device. Inside the device there are two counter rotating drums—and I want to be clear here. The data that we have does not specify the internal configuration of those drums within the Bell. These two counter rotating drums had a 'serum'—this Xerum 525 I mentioned earlier—the heavy maroonish-red, probably mercury, compound. It is cryogenically cooled either by liquid oxygen or liquid nitrogen and it is close to an electrical power plant and sounds like a beehive Okay? The electrical power plant is kind of to put an hyperbole on it near yards away from the installations that the Bell is being tested in all right? BR: The kind of hum you get from a high voltage generator. JF: Yes. Okay. Now let’s put all these things... Those are the data points, and the… BR: And this is known how? JF: This is known by an SS general by the name of Jakob Sporrenberg who was part of this project because he was the general that was tasked, at the end of the war, to go in and murder sixty of the scientists involved with the project. BR: Hm. JF: In other words the Nazis want to keep this thing absolutely quiet. BR: I didn’t know that. JF: Oh yeah, that’s how all this comes out. He’s tried for that crime by a Polish War Crimes Tribunal because, of course, Poland slid westward and took over parts of Pomeranian Silesia that were formerly German provinces. And the Bell was tested in that part of Germany that then became Poland after the war. So Poland assumed jurisdiction over this man for that crime and we know it by the affidavit that he gave at that war crimes trial, okay? But it’s important again to realize, it’s after the collapse of the iron curtain, it’s after the collapse of the east German state and basically the shotgun wedding that was had in 1989, that all of this comes out. Now, Sporrenberg also describes the effect of the device on plants. Plants exposed to the field of this thing when it was operating would decay to a kind of a brownish grey goo within a matter of either hours or weeks, this would vary. BR: They’d come apart. JF: Yes. They’d just literally fall apart, just blugh, and they would do so without putrefaction. The first time it was tested apparently the Germans had not done something correctly and seven of the original scientists of the project were killed when it was tested the first time. Later on, apparently, they learned how to kind of control some of these deadly effects a little bit more reasonably. But those are the data points. And one little final bit of information—a final bit of data point... When it was tested underground it had to be tested in a room lined with ceramic bricks over which were placed rubber mats. After each test concentration camp victims would come in, remove the rubber mats, burn the mats and then scrub down the ceramic bricks with brine—okay? That had to be done for some reason after each test. BR: Radioactivity? JF: Yes I think so, I think so. Again... and I’m mentioning that because it’s a crucial data point. Then, when it was tested outside, it was tested apparently inside this henge-like structure that is near all of these strange installations with this electrical power plant right there. This henge stood in a kind of a basin—a pool—it looks like, that would have contained some sort of liquid. Around the perimeter of this pool there are... And you can see this on the History Channel documentary with Nick Cook. Igor takes Nick down into

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this structure and you can see these entry ports for all of this heavy duty electrical cabling, okay? JF: To what end, again, I think there’s these three purposes in mind: the Bell is part of a... The departmental oversight, let’s say, of the Bell is three things. First, you have some attachment to the Forschung Inviclum Inpatento, which is a super secret SS entity that is pulling every patent application within the Third Reich, and later occupied Europe, that has national security implications. Number two, it’s under an entity called SS Entwicklungstelle vier which means Development Area Four. The mission brief of that department is to make Germany energy independent and it’s that department that you have investigating things like controlled fusion, zero point energy, and so on and so forth. So it’s attached to that department. Then the final department that it’s attached to is General Hans Kammler and his think tank down in the Pils in Czechoslovakia in the Scotia Munitions Works. And the mission brief of that department of the SS is to brainstorm its way from first generation to second and third and fourth generations—and here’s the key—to work out the necessary steps in the technology tree, to get from one to the other, and then to do it. Okay? BR: Mm-hm. JF: So the Bell is connected with all these departments and what this suggests to me, given the physics involved here, is that they’re trying to create a prototype technology. And I want to emphasize this: This thing is not a UFO, it is not itself a weapon and it is not itself a zero point energy device. It’s a prototype technology, or a gateway technology, that they are using in developing to investigate each of those three areas. That I think is what you have with this project. But I think the results were significant enough to them, by 1944, that they give it this extreme classification—kriegsentscheidend—war decisive. So they’re already seeing the military potential of this thing. This is a field propulsion potential here of just extraordinary capability. And this is a weapon potential here of just extraordinary capability, but it’s a kind of a unified technology. BR: Now... KC: It also sounds like it’s a time machine. I mean, it sounds like it’s creating what Jodie Foster entered, in a sense, in Contact. JF: Right. I use the term “time dilation” here, and I don’t want relativistic associations, but I don’t want people to think that this is a device that can be used as a practical device for time travel— going backward or forward into the future. But the field effects here on plants, I think, are key. And another thing I should mention is: I think one of the purposes of this 'Xerum' and the use of probably some isotope of mercury and nuclear isomers was precisely the fact that, if they were able to achieve a severe time dilation effect, the way you’re going to try and measure it is precisely by changes in radioactive decay, okay? BR: [inaudible]

Apparently, when tested at night, these concentration camp inmates described this barrel-like thing that would glow a pale blue glow and it would rise above the tree line and kind of sit there and then it would fall back down; lower back down. So those are our data points. I don’t think that the dimensions of the device, at this point in my research, are functionally significant so let’s turn to the cryogenic cooling, okay? We’re dealing already we know with a device that is using these two counter rotating cylinders, and I suspect that their centrifuge isotope technology had something to do with this, because they’re using ultra high mechanical rotation. In other words, this is a precision machine, and it’s being cryogenically cooled. And the first thing that I think of is superconductivity, you know. Again, high spin system, little resistance. It’s a kind of a self contained little bubble of its own... BR: Was superconductivity understood in the physics of that time? JF: Oh yeah. Sure. Then the next thing is we have this mysterious substance which they’re putting into these cylinders and spinning at high speed. I think that the presence of this power plant and the sound of the Bell, as a beehive, indicates that this whole thing was electrically pulsed with extremely high voltage direct current electricity. And that the drums were set up—and Igor agrees with me here; this is his analysis that I’m borrowing from—that you have a cathode and an anode and this will arc to the centre. And as this stuff is spinning and cohering along the same plane of rotation and being pulsed, electrically pulsed, it’s going to drive it inward, create little plasmoids, and you’re going to get even more spin out of this thing. So, in other words, the way I’m rationalizing the device, ultimately, is they are attempting to maximize by every possible means this extreme torsion shear effect. This is exactly what they are going after. They are trying to figure out if they can manipulate and engineer the fabric of space-time. BR: With what end?

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JF: Yes. So I think this is yet another reason they’re spinning this stuff up and pulsing it. It’s kind of at one and the same time the fuel of the device and the measurement of what they’re getting out of it. KC: But is it possible, two things… JF: Mm hm. KC: …one, that if in spinning which it’s creating a portal, in essence, it’s creating a torsion field around… JF: Yes. It’s creating this “twisted can” effect. JF: Uh-huh. KC: But you’re saying it affected plants on the outside of it. JF: Yes. KC: Is there any chance that on the inside you wouldn’t have the same effect? JF: Good question. To my knowledge—and I think Igor Witkowski would probably back me up here. To my knowledge there is no evidence that this device was constructed in such a way that you could put people into it, or plants or animals or what have you into this device. Now, that doesn’t mean that... Let’s put ourselves in the Nazi shoes for a moment and kind of speculate. If by, say 1942/43 when it is very clear from the documents that Igor has gathered, they have been successful enough with this project even to split it into the physics component and the medical component, okay? Which indicates— Igor thinks (and I think that he’s quite right here)—that the Nazis have decided: Okay. We’re far enough along we need to learn how to limit the effects of this stuff on living beings. If this is the case, then there’s nothing to prevent the Nazis from building or modifying that machine, building another one, so that they can do precisely that. And that would be a logical step for them to take. But, as of yet, we don’t have any hard evidence that they did this. That’s all I’m saying. So, yes. It has a field around it where the effects are quite deadly. BR: Now, as a leap… JF: Sure. BR: …and one that some of our viewers may already have been making. JF: Uh-huh. BR: If, to mirror what you said at the start of our conversation when you said: Well, let’s assume that the Germans have been successful in establishing some degree of nuclear weapon technology. JF: Right. BR: ...and even the idea, you know—heaven forbid—that children picked up off the streets were used as a means of trying to push them into this thing to see if they would survive the journey. JF: Right. BR: Is this a ridiculous leap in your mind or is this something that you’re willing to entertain, theoretically, that there’s the connection here. As this technology…. JF: Between the Bell and Montauk? BR: Well, yes. I mean... Because, as this conversation continues, I want your take on what happened to this technology after the war. The significance of Kammler... JF: Right. BR: ...and what happened to him. [Farrell laughs] What happened to this technology and the deals that may have been made? JF: Right. BR: …and whoever, and where it is now. What happened to it? JF: Okay. BR: This is not the kind of thing that’s just abandoned, is it a failed project? JF: No-no. [laughs] BR: Certainly not. There are too many smart people... JF: Oh, yes! BR: ...who are too interested in keeping on playing with this incredible toy. JF: Okay, well let me dispense with Montauk. That is not a project that I have investigated deeply, Okay? I’ve investigated enough to know that there’s a lot of (if I can use the expression) BR: Let’s suppose that the Americans had done something in the Montauk project. JF: Okay. BR: As it’s popularly been... JF: Portrayed. BR: ...portrayed as some kind of a Star Gate device that involves huge amounts of electrical power, a lot of trial and error experimentation...

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wacky stuff out there and I just don’t want to go there. There’s been really only one good book about it, in my estimation, and I can’t even recall the title of it. From some of the descriptions of the project: Yeah, it appears that they’re kind of investigating similar things, but not really. So I don’t make a connection between the Bell and Montauk at all in my mind intuitively. It just has too many... it’s got too many elements like the Vril society channeling all this information and that’s where we are getting this science. It’s got too much of that for me. But as for where does the Bell go. The way I kind of outline in my books it appears to me that Martin Bormann is the key figure here. And in each and every case that we see these German scientists surrendering to the Allies, let’s give the example of the rocket scientists, we in the United States get sort of the crème de la crème, Okay? As to where the Bell goes. In my opinion Martin Bormann sees to it that the Allies and the Soviet Union get more or less an equal division of the technological spoils. He sees to it, according to my research, that the United States gets crucial atom bomb components. Fissile U235, infrared proximity fuses that are a nice handy thing to have around when you are trying to detonate plutonium cores, all of this technology he sees to it that the United States gets. He sees to it that the Soviet Union gets a crucial Nazi scientist that had developed certain isotope enrichment technologies. BR: Who was that? JF: Baron Manfred from Arjona, who, of course, used cyclotrons and mass spectrometers just like Lawrence did over here. So this goes to the Soviet Union—oops!—along with the centrifuge technology. So he’s seeing to it that all of this technology is being equally divided. But if you’re going to have a post war, extra-territorial Nazi state, so to speak, and it’s going to have organization, and if you are going to have an ongoing research project, there’s two things you can’t have: You can’t have atom bombs because that’s going to require large enrichment plants, of course that’s going to be an easy target. You can’t have large rocket gantries you are going to need a project that is truly sensational and would pay massive dividends and yet be a project that you could much easier keep secret, okay? And that’s the Bell. BR: Okay. JF: So in other words, what I’m telling you is, the Allies and the Soviet Union get the jets, the rockets, the infrared sights, the computers, the semi-conductor chips, you know, all of this stuff. But the project that was classified war decisive the Nazi’s keep to themselves. In my research I think that, definitely, a case can be made that the post war fusion project that was taking place in Juan Peron’s Argentina, is really nothing more than a continuation of certain aspects of this Bell project. In other words, with all of those Nazis located in Argentina, including —as I make a case in my books—Martin Bormann himself. You have the boss, in other words, right there in the area where this secret Argentine project is being conducted. So, in other words, Peron is not really the one that is in control of this. It’s Bormann. He’s the financier, okay? So you have the Bell not going to the West, not going to the Soviet Union, you have it going to Argentina. Now, you mentioned Kammler... KC: I’m sorry, but I have to ask... JF: Sure. KC: Don’t you think there’s a very good chance that what was going on in Argentina was under the purview of the United States? Because a lot of the head Nazis did go to the United States, wouldn’t you say? JF: Well, there are Nazis that go here but the important ones, no. And the reason I say that is that... If you go back to my book SS Brotherhood of the Bell, I pick up on something that Igor Witkovsky very explicitly mentions in his book, and that is that it appears that the United States was desperately trying to reconstruct the personnel team of the Bell. In other words, we didn’t get the people, and if we’re trying to reconstruct the personnel team, that means we didn’t get the documents from the project and probably we didn’t get the device. If we had the device we probably wouldn’t have needed much of the personnel. So we really didn’t get much of anything. I’ve only been able to identify two Bell scientists that made it to this country. One was, incidentally, Dr. Hubertus Strughold who was involved in the medical aspect of the project. The other one was a fellow by the name of Dr. Kurt Debus. Now this guy is an interesting character because he apparently was one of these top scientists because he was the man that designed the power plant for the Bell. Now here’s why he’s significant. I have a picture of him in SS Brotherhood of the Bell and he’s standing right next to Dr. Wernher Von Braun [laughs] at NASA and you’re nodding your head and smiling, you know where this is going! He’s standing right next to Wernher Von Braun at NASA, and they are kind of pointing off to something in the distance like that, and he’s a senior flight director for the Apollo program at Cape Canaveral. So in other words, as an administrator, he’s got his hands in all the NASA pies. But the man isn’t even a rocket scientist. He’s an electrical engineer. BR: It’s really weird, isn’t it? JF: Well, it’s so weird [laughs] to go there where you want me to go. It’s so weird that I happen to think that this indicates that there’s an alternative technology in play here. BR: Okay. JF: In the Apollo program. BR: Yup! Let me inject a little anecdote that may make you smile. This is a personal anecdote, and I don’t even think Kerry’s heard this one. My father was a facial recognition expert who worked with the British home office. JF: Okay.

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BR: He... Among many things, he invented Photofit, the facial recognition system used to catch crooks. JF: Okay. BR: And Identi-kit, which preceded it, was an idea that was stolen from him. JF: Right. BR: And every now and then the British home office would consult him with a special request. And I remember sitting around the kitchen table, in the 1970’s when I was in my midtwenties, and my father looking at pictures of Martin Bormann… JF: [laughs] Oh boy. BR: …and he had been approached by the British home office who had some pictures of an old man that had been sent to them either from Brazil or Argentina, and I cannot remember which, (and my father is now no longer with us) and my father was being tasked to state whether or not this man, that had been found in the 1970’s, was Martin Bormann and my father said: Yes it absolutely was. So, how about that for a little anecdote? JF: Yeah, well. [laughs] I’ve got an anecdote of my own. It’s not my personal anecdote but I mention in my Nazi International book that the CBS journalist Paul Manning, that was a close associate of Ed Murrow, you know, the very famous journalist that was in the UK during the blitz and later on TV. Well, Manning wrote a book. This was after Ladislas Farago had come out with his book about Martin Bormann, the Fourth Reich and all that stuff. Well Manning, I think, in a certain sense, was kind of miffed at the way they had treated a fellow journalist, and he wrote a book called Martin Bormann: Nazi in Exile. And he basically verified that the documents that Farago had used in his book were real. They were legit, okay? Well he found something else. [laughs] He found that Martin Bormann—I think around 1967—had cashed a check [laughs] at Manufacturers Hanover and Chase Manhattan Bank. It was cleared through Deutsche Bank in Buenos Aires in Argentina, and the check had been cashed over his own signature. [laughs] BR: Incredible. [Farrell laughs] Amazing. KC: I don’t understand. I mean, you can back off the link between this—I don’t know how to say his name—the guy in Florida… JF: Debus. Kurt Debus. KC: …Debus. Okay, and Bormann. In other words you’re, in essence, saying they no longer spoke? JF: Oh no, no, no! I’m not backing off that link at all. Quite the contrary. No. I’m very much in agreement with Richard Hoagland and Mike Bara that, you know, in Dark Mission they outlined the case that, by the time of these late Apollo missions, it’s the Nazis that are the most significant influence inside of NASA. No, quite the contrary. In fact, one of the things I try and mention in SS Brotherhood of The Bell, is that our early monitoring of these German scientists, that were over here as part of our missile program and then the early space program, discovered that there seemed to be a sort of chain of command between all of these Nazis still in existence, and that they even had mail drops. And they were driving these fancy cars and getting money from they-knew-not-where. That it wasn’t coming from a NASA scientist salary. They were driving around [laughs] in these Mercedes cars but nothing was ever done about it. That’s, to me, what’s suspicious because yeah, that clearly indicates they’ve got some connection to this post war Nazi organization. Very clearly and very palpably. KC: So what about Wernher Von Braun… JF: Uh-huh. KC: …what about him, and the link with… JF: …with all of this? KC: Yeah. With Debus. Because, if they are working together, is there more than just a working relationship? In other words, what I’m trying to find out is, where did he fit in to this echelon… JF: …to this picture? Alright! Good question. I do not, in my books, speculate on what that relationship may be. But I'll do so here because I think it's an excellent question. If you look at Mr. Hoagland and Mr. Bara’s hypothesis in Dark Mission, what you have ultimately is a two-track space program. You’ve got one that’s out there for public consumption with the rockets and, you know, all the fireworks and flag-waving, Mom and apple pie. And then there is something else. It’s like you’re dealing with a black hole of news. There’s news stories around it and then there’s this big black hole right in the middle that’s conspicuous for its blackness, okay? Well, this little picture of von Braun and Debus, to me, is sort of the icon of what you’re seeing with this two-track space program, because very clearly these two men are engaged in a private conversation that’s behind glass; they’re both wearing their earphones. They’re both kind of close to each other and they’re pointing off in the distance to something, okay? So I think this relationship goes back to Nazi Germany because I do know that Debus was also part of von Braun’s team at Peenemünde. And what he was doing for von Braun there was, he was constructing the measuring equipment for these stationary rocket test gantries that the Nazis had built there. But he’s also got this connection to the Bell. Now this is why I find this question interesting, because if you go into the Cooper-Cantwell documents (MAJIC 12 documents)— and I’m not arguing for or against their authenticity; I’m saying I’m looking only at the internal evidence of the documents themselves—they kind of corroborate this picture because what they suggest is that these Nazi Paperclip rocket scientists were

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brought in to look at this Roswell wreckage. And the first question that occurs to my mind: Well, why bring in Nazi scientists if you suspect this is ET? You’re gonna want to keep that as classified as possible from your former enemy, okay? But you bring ’em in because it looks German. And von Braun... Okay? You’ve got von Braun and Arthur Rudolph and all these Nazi scientists looking at this stuff and they come up with this explanation of what this is. It’s some sort of Neutronic engine with fusion that’s taking place, and so on and so forth. And that tells me that if that’s true, then somebody—if it’s disinformation—somebody knows that Debus and von Braun communicated something way back in Nazi Germany and that von Braun knew enough about this other secret project to be able to say that to his American interrogators. Hence, we go back to that picture. What that picture represents to me is that this two-track space program begins in World War Two and in Nazi Germany. Because what do you have? You’ve got rockets that are very visible. And you’ve got this Bell thing and all of this secret stuff that really doesn’t even come out until after German Reunification. The Nazis are seeing to it that the Soviet Union and the United States get the jets and the rockets, but they’re keeping this to themselves. BR: If they’re keeping it to themselves, what have they been doing with it in the last 63 years? JF: Excellent question. Because if you can imagine... Let’s just go back. You’ve got Martin Bormann sitting in Argentina, with a joint bank account with Juan Peron, that’s sitting on top of almost eight hundred million dollars. That’s a hefty chunk of change at that point in history. Properly invested... and Bormann was a financial whiz. I mean there’s no doubt about this. He knew how to move money and make money. Properly invested, you can sustain this kind of independent project, move it around. At some point I think it’s going to require a partner if it’s gonna be made big and practical and usable. Okay? But yeah, in 63 years it’s very feasible to me that they’ve worked out the medical bugs, you know, that you can put somebody inside of one of these contraptions and fly it around, okay? Yeah, it’s very conceivable that this would be possible. It’s conceivable to me that at an even earlier date you could take aspects of that technology and wed it to more conventional technologies to kind of boost their efficiency, so to speak. This is why I think that picture of Debus and von Braun at NASA is very telling, because if Debus is involved in Apollo and in The Bell... Again, that to me points to an alternative technology, possibly. That and other things. I’m certainly not arguing the whole case on that. So yeah, in 63 years what could they do with this? You know, project the learning curve. You know, to me it’s very feasible the medical issues have been solved. They may have been able to find a practical application for free energy. But you know, here’s the bad news: Once again, they may have been able to weaponize this stuff. And that, to me, is the scariest part. BR: But if I understand you right, you’re suggesting there’s an isolated group of Nazis; maybe their descendents... JF: Right. BR: ...somewhere in South America, probably Argentina... JF: Brazil, Chile... [laughs] Yeah. BR: Etcetera, yeah. With access to this salvaged and exported exotic technology... JF: Mm-hm. BR: ...with continued funding and continued protection from somewhere. JF: Somewhere. BR: That are doing what? They’re not having to pay their electricity bills? They’re flying around, looking around, and weaponizing it against who? This doesn’t seem to make sense on its own. JF: Okay. Let me give you a context. The modern financial meltdown, to me, is a sign that there is a breakdown occurring between the old postwar détente. And what do I mean by that? The founders of the Bilderberg Group were Lawrence and David Rockefeller; a Rothschild was involved. That represented kind of the Anglo-American corporate interest. But on the European side, who is the principal founder? Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands. Who’s Prince Bernhard? He’s an SS officer. And therefore, if you still have an extant post-war Nazi chain of command, and we’ve already mentioned that we do... If you have an extant post-war Nazi chain of command, then an SS officer like Bernhard answers to his chief, which is Martin Bormann, who holds an SS four-star general’s rank, okay? But Bernhard is also a vice president of—oh, looky-looky—IG Farben, okay? Which, incidentally, I want to point out, IG Farben was only finally completely liquidated in what year? BR: I have no idea. JF: 2003. BR: Really! JF: Yes. [laughs] BR: Okay. JF: This corporation was so big and so huge, and all of these licensing agreements that it had all over the world were in such a tangle that it took literally that long to finally get rid of the whole thing. That’s an enormous amount of power. KC: But did Bormann report to von Braun? JF: No. Von Braun reported... If anyone’s reporting in that chain, it’s von Braun reporting to Bormann. Okay? KC: Okay.

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JF: But let’s get back to Prince Bernhard, because present at these early Bilderberger meetings is a very significant figure. It’s Dr. Hermann Josef Abs, who is the CEO of Deutsche Bank, one of the world’s largest international banks. The bank that, incidentally, cleared Bormann’s check in Buenos Aires that was drawn on Manufacturers Hanover and Chase Manhattan; big Rockefeller banks. Morgan Rockefeller interests. So putting all of these little pieces together, what it looks like to me is that the Bilderberger group’s first secret purpose after the war was to take all of this liquid cash that is sitting in the hands of these post-war Nazis and move it through these Western banks, make it available to these Western bankers. And a lot of it, I suspect, was even kept off the books. They’re laundering a huge amount of money, in other words. Now, here’s the problem. I like to say—and I thank Richard Hoagland for this kind of analogy because he came out with this one at a conference and I just love it: With Martin Bormann we’re dealing with a Dick Cheney without the warmth and charm. So in other words, when they’re negotiating these deals, you know: We agree with you. Corporate fascism is the way to go and we’re agreed that world domination is kind of a cool idea and we’re willing to play ball with each other. And here’s a lot of money to do it. [laughs] You know? Well, when you’re dealing with someone like Bormann, you’re dealing as I said, with Dick Cheney with no warmth and charm. That money is going to come with a lot of strings attached, and when the markers come due you’d better be able to pay. BR: Mm-hm. JF: Uh-huh. BR: Mm-hm. JF: And if... with Bormann you have an intelligence organization that was headed up by his friend Heinrich Muller, whom I also believe escaped Nazi Germany—the actual head of the Gestapo—you’re dealing with people that cannot only make threats, but carry them out, even against the extremely wealthy and the extremely powerful. KC: But the US won the war. JF: Sort of. KC: Why would the US let the Nazis go to Argentina, with their blessing, without having their hands in that pie? JF: Simple. Exactly. They’re got their hands in that pie. KC: Okay. JF: And Bormann, as I’ve said, has negotiated—again, this is a part of... I know you’re under time constraints, so for me to answer that question I’d have to keep you here, okay, but... KC: We [overtalk] a little time here [laughs]. JF: Well, basically what we have with Bormann is working out a deal to surrender all these atom bomb components to the United States. So in other words, Bormann already has a certain amount of moral leverage over the United States. He could easily expose the whole thing and expose the United States as having made a deal with the devil. It’s kind of a classical Mexican standoff. That’s part of the problem that we’re faced with. And again, part of this deal includes all of this German military intelligence that gets kind of slid into the CIA, you know, but remains operationally under the control of the very same Nazi general that it was in control of during the World War itself. KC: [overtalk] BR: And there’s a whole bunch of mind control technology. We haven’t even gone there. JF: Oh yes! Exactly! I mean, on and on this goes, you know. And for me the real point is, is once we make that deal with the devil, we say: Okay, Martin (or whoever), we need you to take care of some business and we don’t want to sully our lily-white American hands with it. But we know that you have the people who can do this. Sure. But in doing this deal, any time that happens, you have just put yourself in the position to be blackmailed and these people will do it. In other words, they can expose you as being involved in these, you know, sordid affairs around the world. So I think the whole result of this deal with the devil... and I think we begin to realize it right around the 1950s with Eisenhower, because what’s he warn against when he leaves office? Military-industrial complex. And he knows all of these Nazis, okay? He knows these Nazis because he fought them. And I think the warning he’s giving the American people, and for that matter The West, as a matter of fact, is not so much against the homegrown American military-industrial complex, but who’s infiltrating and weeding their way into all of these positions of power and influence within it—namely, Nazis. This is a very... [searching for words] ... I’m sorry to be so inarticulate here because I’m trying to connect a lot of dots very quickly for you. But yeah, I think the ultimate reason is: they’ve got a gun to the Anglo-American elites’ head. And to bring it up to modern times, what... and again, I’m simply speculating here in answer to your earlier question, but the behavior of the corporate elite at the bailout hearings, with this business of no oversight, and the kind of pronouncements coming out of major banking leaders and families and groups and so on, strike me as not being acted-out panic but genuine panic. And as I go around the world I see panic, but it’s not near the hysteria and pitch that it is in this country, coming from Europe. There’s certainly panic in Iceland, but it seems like the further east we go, the less panic and hysteria there is. But it’s this bailout without oversight idea that looks to me... That’s the kind of behavior of someone who’s being blackmailed with a gun to their head: Well, we want a lot of money but we can’t tell you what it’s for.

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BR: This is a very, very interesting thesis. JF: Yeah. It’s very suspicious. Now to put it in the context with Nazis, and I think the reason, perhaps, for your question is that the only thing I see within the context of recent history in the last 60 to 70 years that could put that extremely powerful AngloAmerican corporate banking interest or elite in that kind of peril, is precisely an entity that had enormous amounts of liquid capital that it moved into their banks and left there for a very long time as part of the deal: We’ll give you this money. Do with it what you will. Leave us alone. BR: Is this the research angle that you would like to follow in the coming months as more information becomes available about the current crisis? JF: I’m not really a conspiracy theorist. I touch on these things only when it seems like the physics aspects of it lead there. But I get asked this question a lot, so I’ve kind of speculated, you know, reasoned out this kind of scenario. But I can tell you this: I’m researching a book—writing a book now—that deals with, I hope effectively, deeply-seated and rooted reasons for this very strange connection between physics and finance that seems to pop up over and over and over again. And I’ll only say this: It’s very deeply rooted and very, very old. BR: Yes. That’s a beautiful thought to leave a lot of people to ponder. JF: [laughs] Leave them hanging. BR: Something that Peter Levenda mentioned beautifully succinctly when we talked to him last week. He said: Look, the whole world can’t go broke. Someone’s got to have the money. JF: Exactly. BR: And something that seems very obvious to us when we’re knocking this subject around between us, is that if you look at all the black projects, all the modern-day equivalents of the Bell experiments, wherever they are... JF: Wherever they are. JF: And just clobber... [laughing] BR: ...on this planet or even elsewhere, then, you know, this is costing money. And if you think of money as energy, it’s like where... You know, this energy is being drained out of the global circuit, and it’s going somewhere. JF: Where is it going? [laughs] BR: Yes. Where is it going? Which is another way of reframing the same question that I believe you’re asking. JF: Exactly! Exactly. BR: Now, just to draw together some of these strings, and there are a lot of strings. JF: Oh yes. [laughs] BR: ...and just knock ’em all out. I could just never understand that. JF: Exactly. And you know, from my amateur military historian standpoint, conventional wisdom or operations here fail to account for all of this. And incidentally, Russia recently—I think in the last few years—disclosed the fact that its actual casualties may have been as much as ten to fifteen million more than that 25 million we’ve been told. BR: Hm. JF: So, you know, this tiny, bothersome little country is not only fighting the United Kingdom, and later on the United States, and virtually everybody else, but all of that to them is just kind of a BR: And I know that you don’t even pretend that this is tidy. JF: Oh no. I certainly don’t. [laughs] BR: And it’s a little bit like the sort of, you know, out-takes after a movie: What happened to this character? What happened to that character? Are you assuming that Hans Kammler ended up wherever Martin Bormann ended up? JF: Yes. BR: Okay. Are you assuming that the reason why the Nazis never actually used their arguably well-developed nuclear technology... And this is another whole interview to talk about the evidence of that. JF: Sure. Oh yeah. [laughs] BR: But we support you in your thesis that it looks like it was far more advanced than anyone has publicly given them credit for. JF: Right. Right. BR: But they never used it, even though they tested it and they had it for quite a few years. Was this because they were planning to use it as a bargaining chip later? JF: Possibly. But I think you could possibly also make a case... Look, one of the things... I’m kind of a military strategy games buff. I play these things all the time. It’s my entertainment, you know. I do this like people watch TV or movies, okay? And you know as well as I do that the Wehrmacht on the Eastern Front achieved this just staggering kill ratio against the Red Army, against the Russians. BR: Yeah. Millions of Red soldiers. JF: Half of the casualties of World War Two were inflicted by the Nazi war machine on Soviet Russia. BR: Yeah. And you know I had never understood how such a tiny nation could go up against all the Russian soldiers...

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sideshow. This enormous military campaign is taking place on the Eastern Front and, to my mind, as competent and tactically brilliant as the German Army was, this doesn’t explain it all to me. So there’s something else going on here, and... KC: Do you have a theory? JF: Yeah. Oh yeah. I write about it in my first Nazi book, Reich of the Black Sun. There are persistent rumors that come out of Russia, beginning in the war, that the Nazis are using something on the Eastern Front that they are not using against the Western allies simply because, of course, the Communists—the Bolsheviks—are their ideological enemies, you know. So, yeah. They’re subhuman. We can use all of this grisly technology we have on them. But... KC: Are you suggesting bio-warfare? JF: No. I’m suggesting perhaps radiological bombs. I am absolutely certain that they’re using some prototypical or firstgeneration fuel-air bombs. And if you don’t know what a fuel-air bomb is, that’s a conventional bomb with the explosive punch of a tactical nuke. Now, I’ll show... and I’ll go further. I’ll tell you how they’re using them. They’re using them in rocket-launched multi-barrel artillery batteries. So if you can say the phrase tactical nuke and carpet bombing, you get an idea of, you know, this carnage that they’re inflicting on the Red Army. And it’s so bad that in 1941 during the battle for Moscow when the Germans are doing this stuff, the Soviets, through Sweden, tell the Germans that if they don’t cease and desist they’ll start using poison gas. You know, it’s that bad. BR: But there are also... I mean, besides that fascinating induction from those circumstances... JF: Right. BR: ...there are eyewitness reports... JF: Oh yes. Absolutely. BR: ...of people who report something that looks exactly like a nuclear blast. JF: Yes. Exactly. Exactly. You’ve got all of this stuff going on on the Eastern Front that is inexplicable without, in my opinion, the use and deployment of all of these advanced Nazi weapons. So that’s, I think, why we don’t hear of it. And a final point in that respect is, during the war Stalin’s government is going to be loathe to admit that it is facing an enemy that is that much more technologically superior. BR: It’s embarrassing at least. [laughs] JF: At the very least it’s embarrassing. But imagine in the Red Army when the morale, with this slaughter, this blood-letting that’s going on, that you have to have Commissars literally threatening to shoot anyone who deserts, just to maintain morale at some of these big battles. If Stalin had admitted this publicly, it, number one, I think could have so severely weakened his government that it might have cost him his government, you know. BR: Yes. JF: And number two, had that been the case, it may have brought in a government that would have been willing to sue for peace. In fact, Stalin even tried to do that in 1942. BR: Yes. And those reports of those generals; first commanders, being willing to shoot the soldiers who would desert... This is completely contrary to everything we understand about the Russian psyche, the Russian personality, the Russian dogged resistance. JF: Exactly. BR: It just doesn’t match, does it? JF: It doesn’t. Exactly. KC: I thought it was the Russian winter that stopped the Nazis. JF: Well, I mean, we get... Yeah. There’s all of this happy claptrap [Kerry laughs], especially in American, you know, university and history textbooks. KC: Okay. JF: You know, America comes in and saves the day in World War One. America comes in and saves the day in World War Two, you know. To me, this is just military baloney. KC: Okay. JF: Because we come in fairly late. And if you look at American campaigns in World War Two, we’re kind of on the periphery of things all the time. The action’s going on in the Soviet Union. So, you know, yeah, General Winter and all that. But you can argue against that thesis because in August of 1941 Adolph Hitler turns Army Group Center, the Second Panzer Army, 650 miles south out of the way to encircle some Russian forces in Kiev, when in front of them he’s 250 miles from Moscow at the end of August [laughs] and they have decimated sixty percent of the Red Army and he’s got one Russian rifle division standing between him and Moscow. So the war was lost, not by General Winter or General Mud, but by Hitler making this dumb, stupid, silly, indefensible military decision to take that detour. [laughs] BR: Yeah. KC: Is it possible that even that is, you know, disinfo? And that what really changed the war was the deals being made with the Americans because they decided they were fighting a losing battle and they were making monetary deals and getting out of Germany because they wanted to rewrite history and go in a different direction? JF: Okay. Well, I think the deals begin to be struck—the feelers are put out for them, certainly—in the period from the fall of the

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Sixth Army at Stalingrad up to the failure of the German offensive at Kursk in 1943; July of 1943. So it’s this time period KC: That’s early. BR: Hm. JF: It falls... and that, incidentally, is the anniversary of the Beer Hall Putsch. Okay? BR: Okay. JF: Now if you go back and recall what’s taking place in Germany at the time. There’s all these mass meetings demonstrations in Leipzig and Dresden of a bunch of German intellectuals that are pushing for the reform of the German state. They’re not pushing for reunification. East and East East

JF: That’s fairly early. After Kursk, the offensive capability of the Wehrmacht is broken for a good year and a half, okay? So it’s during this period that the Nazi leadership quietly make the feelers, hope that the offensive goes well, but they put out, they lay the foundation. After the battle of Kursk, this kicks into high gear and you have all of these secret negotiations taking place. Yeah. I think you can make a certain argument that some of this history has been deliberately doctored to hide this. BR: It’s a reasonable assumption. JF: Sure. BR: Let me ask you one final question... JF: Okay. BR: ...although it’s an important one and it could be a big one, and I don’t know whether it’s an easy one or not. JF: Okay. BR: But that is: If there is such a thing as a central power base of the Nazis now, where is it? Who are they? And what strings are they pulling? And why should we care? JF: Ah... Germany and some of the major politicians. [laughs] BR: Germany? Now? JF: Germany. Yeah. BR: Really! I didn’t know you were going to say that! JF: Yeah, as surprising as it may seem. One of the things that I looked at very carefully is the German Reunification. When the Berlin Wall falls, it falls on the exact date—I forget the exact numerical date in my head—but it falls on the exact date of the anniversary of Kristallnacht in 1938.

But then an amazing thing happens—and this, to me, is the dead giveaway—the meetings themselves begin to have lots of neoNazis start attending. These people show up with cell phones, computers, and lots of money, and using typical Nazi tactics, strong-arm any opposition out of these meetings and begin to kind of steer them so that even the popular slogans that the reformers were chanting: Wir sind das Volk (We are the people) is changed to Wir sind ein Volk. BR: Ah. We are one people. JF: Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein F¸hrer. Okay? BR: Yes. JF: Now, on the other side, Chancellor Köhl’s government in Bonn is very quietly but very seriously channeling money and driving this stuff. So, in other words, what I’m saying: you cannot have neo-Nazi cells in communist Eastern Europe suddenly popping up with cell phones, computers, all this money, organized, ready to go, without having had an intelligence structure in Eastern Europe to begin with to support it. And when all of this activity happens—BANG—all of a sudden Bonn has, ready to go, ready to hand, a plan for reunification. And it’s basically a shotgun wedding and it’s typical Hitler’s tactics: Well, we’ll give you the opportunity to vote on whether you want reunification. And again, what happens? When the referendum is held in those East Germany provinces, the neoNazis show up and they are driving some of this activity to keep people voting that are going to vote for it and to keep people that don’t want that out. BR: But isn’t this part of establishing one of the central planks for the European Union? JF: Oh, of course it is! BR: Okay. JF: But what does Martin Bormann say that he wants to do after the war? He wants to create a European federation, or confederation, which Germany will be able to dominate. And listen to his words now: By elastic political means. In other words, he’s learned to speak the lingo to a “T”.

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BR: Okay. But are you saying, then, that whatever may or may not be going on in America right now is divorced from what you’ve just described? There’s no connection? JF: Oh no, no. Not at all. I’ve very alarmed because what I see happening in America within the last ten, twelve years, is this emergence of a horrendous fascist police-state/snitch culture. Oh absolutely. No, I wouldn’t say it’s divorced from it at all. But I am saying look to Europe and look at recent events very carefully, and look especially at the events surrounding German Reunification and the moves Germany made afterward—almost immediately—to crack up Czechoslovakia and to crack up Yugoslavia. Because, remember, it was West Germany, the recently-reunited Germany, that was the first nation to recognize breakaway Croatia over the opposition of Washington and London. They did that unilaterally. And when Croatia got its independence, it turned around and said: Oh, please help us. Will someone please help us? Send peace keepers?—BANG—Germany sent troops. BANG— Germany sent the Luftwaffe. BANG—Germany sold off all that communist equipment to Croatia and re-equipped the East German part of the newly-absorbed East German Army with Bundeswehr equipment. So look at Germany carefully. And it did a lot more. I mean, go onto YouTube. This is a kick, because I found on YouTube a Bundeswehr Wachbataillon doing a music drill show in Cologne—okay?—in 2005! [laughs] This just floored me because here in America, you know, [laughing] we have no idea that this is going on. But they come marching into this stadium, carrying the Bell Tree, drums ablazing, piping out Prussia’s glory. You know? So in other words, I’m looking at a restoration of all of these old Prussian military traditions right before my eyes, and the only thing they’re not doing is the goose step. [laughs] I’m just floored. But it scares me because I told some friends about five years before the reunification even happened, I said: You watch. If it does happen, they will slowly bring back all of those military traditions. And now, you know, this two, three years later, they’re holding Torchlight Tattoos with the Bundeswehr again marching in, carrying the Bell Tree, and all these old Prussian trappings, doing this Torchlight Military Tattoo out in front of the Reichstag, you know. So, it’s scary to me. I mean, it’s creepy. KC: And also... BR: Understood. KC: Obama was... did a special... JF: At the Siegessäule! KC: At the Gate, right?—[ed. note: Brandenburg Gate]—Which is supposed to be a very important symbol of the event from the occult standpoint. JF: Oh sure! Of course. Yeah. And I don’t think this is a good symbolism at all. There are some people that do, you know. I’m disagreed with my good friend Richard Hoagland over this. But, you know, why do we have a presidential candidate go to Berlin? Sure, it’s nice to have good relations with Europe, obviously. BR: It’s also got to do with the touch of the Kennedy. JF: Yeah. It’s good to have good relations with Moscow and Beijing, [laughs] you know, and that would seem to me to be the logical place that you would go. But Berlin? KC: But there’s some subliminal thing going on here. JF: Oh sure. KC: I mean, if they’re permeated NASA, they have to permeate the undercover, you know, black projects... JF: Right. KC: ...thoroughly, and that means they’ve permeated the real secret government of the United States. So there’s an alignment there. JF: Okay. Ask yourself this: The Hadron Collider, okay? You’ve got two huge counter-rotating rings and they’re gonna spin up these particles and smash ’em together. Okay? I find that whole counter-rotating idea really weird, you know, suggestively weird. But the really weird thing to me is: Why is the first Christian Democratic Union Party Chancellor of Germany after Köhl a physicist? [Ed. note: he is referring to Angela Merkel.] BR: Hm. JF: Did you know that? BR: I did not. JF: She’s a Ph.D. in physics. [laughs] BR: Okay. JF: Why is she a Ph.D. in physics? BR: A Ph.D. in physics. JF: Yeah. Now, you know what a German Ph.D. is like, to get. BR: I do. JF: [laughs] You know, they don’t hand them out by any means and this, to me... Why is someone like that even in politics, but especially at that level? You know? This is not a Ph.D. in physics becoming premier of Somalia, you know. [laughs] This is a rather sophisticated nation, technologically. So that to me, you know... it’s another little indicator that we have to watch things over there very carefully. BR: So now, what’s really fascinating here... As you’ve kindly pointed out, we are under a pressure of time this evening. We’ve only done nearly two hours and we could probably do another

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four without even thinking about it because there are so many places this conversation can go. JF: Oh yeah. BR: I don’t know when we will next all be in the same place at the same time, but right now I would like to say that we’d love to talk to you again on audio to explore some of these things. JF: Sure. That’d be fine. JF: Well, thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that. BR: And I’m quite sure I’m gonna wake up tomorrow morning, if not go down right now in the escalator, with a whole bunch of questions which I haven’t had a chance to ask. JF: Right. Right. JF: It’ll be my pleasure. BR: What I do want to do is I want to thank you for your diligence, your creativity, your articulateness in explaining these concepts which are difficult for a lot of people to grasp because this story is so huge. BR: Thank you very much for your time. JF: Thank you. BR: It’s our pleasure and our privilege to assist you in that, and we look forward to seeing you again, and we look forward to talking to you again. JF: Oh yes. BR: You’ve been describing that part of the iceberg that is not often seen. JF: Right. Right. BR: Someone’s got to do it, and I think you’ve done a wonderful job.

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Project Camelot: Jim Marrs - The Rise of the Fourth Reich in America
Laughlin, Nevada, February 2009
JM: Yeah. BR: ...with the use of drugs, hypnosis and electronics. I have this in writing. But maybe this is old news. Kerry Cassidy (KC): That’s old news to Jim...! JM: What’s wild though is, I’ll tell you, here’s my take: if you go ask somebody in government: Do you have a remote viewing unit? They’re going to say: No. And, technically, I think they’re telling the truth. Because when you say it went underground, what they did was they just spread it all out. Now, all these various organizations, such as Navy SEALS, Army Rangers and the DEA and all like that, they all have the remote viewers. Jim Marrs - an amiable Texan with twinkling eyes and a mind like a steel trap - is a veteran researcher and speaker on all topics connected with the agenda of the New World Order. Project Camelot is proud to add him to our strong cadre of witnesses. The books that Jim has authored represent his range of interests clearly: Crossfire (about JFK), Alien Agenda, Rule by Secrecy, The Terror Conspiracy, PSI Spies, The Rise of the Fourth Reich, and Above Top Secret. Jim's broad span of research encompasses Egyptian and Sumerian mythology, Nazi technology, the ET presence, modern geopolitical analysis, the power of the militaryindustrial complex, the Illuminati, and what one might call the real history of the twentieth century. Jim sees the big picture clearly, has great command of detail, and is one of the strongest speakers on the lecture circuit today. The title of this video - The Rise of the Fourth Reich in America - tells its own story, and in this 75 minute interview Jim lays out the compelling and disturbing evidence that while most people thought the Second World War ended in 1945, the Nazis were never stopped in their agenda - which can only be understood when one considers how they were assisted in coming to power by those Controllers who plan in terms of generations... not terms of government office. Introduction Jim Marrs (JM): ...and it was on the way to the printer, and then somebody somewhere just said: No. And it stopped. Bill Ryan (BR): I have a piece of off-record information for you, Jim, which we can go into backchannel if you want to. JM: Okay. BR: I have it in writing from Kit Green -- that the remote viewing program was never closed down, and went underground... BR: Mm hm. KC: That’s right. JM: But it’s not... they’re not... They don’t have a set, you know, official program of remote viewers, they just blended them all in with everybody else. Start of interview KC: This is Project Camelot -- Kerry Cassidy and Bill Ryan -and we’re here with Jim Marrs. He’s a very well known writer; very strong investigator. He’s written several very well known books, very successful books: Crossfire and Rule by Secrecy and Alien Agenda and The Rise of the Fourth Reich. And we’re actually here to talk to Jim about The Rise of the Fourth Reich. [speaking directly to Jim] We’re going to kind of concentrate on that area, but we want to go all over the map, because I know that the secrets of remote viewing is something you’re very, very familiar with, and... You’ve just covered the whole gamut -- it’s really amazing -- and you do so in a very coherent way. It’s very understandable. I think that no one can read one of your books and go: Well that’s the most outlandish thing I ever heard, it’s not true. I think that basically you back up everything you’ve got to say. You were a journalist originally, is that right? JM: Still am. [laughs] KC: Okay. Still working, a working journalist... JM: Right. KC: ...on top of your books, and...

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JM: Unfortunately there’s no real journals around anymore; [laughs] only corporate advertising delivery systems. KC: Right, absolutely. And, basically, you’re considered something of an expert on the Kennedy assassination as well, aren’t you? JM: Well, that’s where I cut my teeth, as a working newspaperman in the Dallas, Fort Worth area, going all the way back to the ‘60s. KC: Amazing. So, you’re also doing the circuit, you’re talking at various conferences, and we’re here today at Laughlin -- where the UFO Congress is being held -- and you’ve just given a wonderful speech. So, what we want to do is talk about where America is going from your point of view, get some of the background -- the background, the Nazis and so on -- and what you’ve been talking about in your newest book. And also, then, sort of circle back around and talk a little bit about UFOs, the secrecy, and what might be seen in the future. BR: I have a question of my own which I could add there as an adjunct, which is: why would somebody be talking about The Rise of the Fourth Reich at a UFO conference? How’s that for a question? JM: [laughs] KC: Well, okay, and I have to say that we’re in some interesting times right now, that are actually bringing forth this questioning that I think is... not even just UFO nuts, but political aficionados, the man on the street; everyone’s questioning their reality right now, I think... JM: I think... KC: ...and why what’s happening in America is going on. JM: I think you’re absolutely correct. Because of the crumbling economy, and because so many people are now waking up and realize that no matter whether they vote for a democrat or republican they seem to get the same socialist programs, they are now beginning to realize that there is a whole different paradigm than what is portrayed in the corporate mass media. And so, the question is, why am I talking about The Fourth Reich at a UFO Congress? And I think the answer is because people who disregard the subject of UFOs and who just write that off as just total fantasy and lunacy; they will never, ever, be able to figure out what’s truly happening in the world because they’re tossing out a big piece of the puzzle. It’s all part of the same big mosaic and you have to put all these pieces together to figure out what’s going on. Just as a “for instance”: I truly believe that one of the main reasons for our precipitous invasion of Iraq was to make a beeline for Baghdad, and use a mob scene as a cover, for a very concerted effort to loot the Iraqi National Museum. What were they after? They were after newly discovered artifacts, tablets, scrolls and such that were being found in the ancient Sumerian cities of Uruk and some of these other places by French and German archaeological teams -- interestingly enough, the two countries who were most opposed to our entry into Iraq. And what was taken? Very possibly knowledge of ancient energy manipulation technology. And this gets into anti-gravity and a bunch of weird and exotic technologies that conventional science would laugh at. But then, when you really study the issue, you find that these technologies have been worked on since at least World War II and have been kept under very ultra-secret classification programs ever since, because this is our leading edge technology. So, you can see how it all ties together; Ancient history, UFOs, secret societies, the world government. It’s all part of the same big ball of wax, and unless you back off and take that broad overview and study a wide variety of topics, you’re never going to figure out what’s going on. BR: This is something that Bill Cooper said, I remember, in one of his very famous lectures that he gave in ’89 or ’90 -- you may well remember it yourself -- he said: If you don’t factor UFOs into this jigsaw puzzle, you’ll never understand what modern geopolitical events are all about. KC: Aren’t we also talking about star gates and, you know, because when you get into free energy, you get into -- from what I understand -- vortexes, and you get into the possibility there is a star gate in Iraq as well that they might be covering up. And then you get into the Annunaki, and... so you’re into aliens or ETs, whatever you want to call them. Have you gone down that road at all? JM: Well, sure. When you follow the evidence, that’s where it takes you back to. And we mentioned the possibility of a star gate or some sort of dimensional portal in Iraq, you know, that takes me back to the Bible and the story of King Nebuchadnezzar. He built this structure out of gold, which they translate as a fiery furnace, but obviously it was something else because people went in and out of it. Of course, when his people when in, they tended to keel over and die, which tells me it was some sort of an energy field. Then he got the three Hebrew priests and told them to make it work, and put them in there. And, lo and behold, eventually there was four people in there. So three went in and four [laughs] came out, so obviously they were opening some sort of a portal, or a gateway. KC: Wow. That’s very interesting. So, where do you want to take us with this? Because I know that there’s a whole movement in your speech, where you’re talking about manna from heaven, the monochromatic gold, monotonomic... how do you say it? JM: The... [laughs] It’s the single-atom gold, monatomic... monatomic gold. KC: Okay. JM: Orbitally rearranged monatomic gold. Single-atom elements. These, by the way, this is nothing that’s just outrageous and unheard-of because monatomic gold, silver, heavy metals -they’re in everything. They’re in water, they’re in food, we ingest

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them. This is just something else -- another layer of our 3-D material existence -- that we had not been aware of prior to the ‘70s and ‘80s. But then, that’s nothing new. You go back a hundred years, they weren’t aware of atoms. So, you know, we’re learning. I think the thing is, and the reason we need to look into this exotic stuff and the question of ETs is because I think that we are in a conditioning process right now, that yes, there may be life in outer space, and this presents a danger. Because I know and I have seen the government documents. There are plans. Contingency plans and government files that, at some point, when they can’t make the international enemy list work, is they... You know, at one point back in the early twentieth century, it was the international Jewish conspiracy. Well, that fell apart. Then there was the international Communist conspiracy, and then that fell apart. Now it’s the international terrorist conspiracy. And yet, if you stop and think about it, how’re we supposed to believe that’s real when they will not do anything to secure the borders of the United States? So that’s a sham too, and when that begins to fall apart, then -- according to authoritarian sources -- the next thing is going to be a threat from outer space just like Ronald Reagan warned us about in his speech to the United Nations. So, if you don’t want to be panicked and stampeded by this phony threat from space, then you’ll study the UFO issue and you’ll find out the truth about the issue. And then when they say: Oh, no, there really are aliens and they’re coming to eat you and you have to give up all the rest of your liberties so we can protect you, you can say: Nah, I don’t think so. KC: Right, absolutely. So, through remote viewing... You became a remote viewer yourself, is that right? JM: I have... In my study of remote viewing, I did participate in some remote viewing studies and in some testing and, interesting enough, I tested pretty well [laughs]. KC: I’m not surprised, because you’ve got a great sort of objectivity about the way you look at different topics, and from what I understand -- I studied remote viewing a little myself -and I understand that it really takes sort of an impartial look at what’s in, you know, on the other side, so to speak. JM: I was kind of surprised to find out that I tested so well in remote viewing. But then as I thought about it, it really wasn’t that surprising because as a journalist and a newspaperman I had long-since learned to somewhat trust my intuition... KC: You have to. JM: ... and my intuition rarely let me down. And that’s, of course, that’s getting to the soft psychic signal that’s at the heart of the remote viewing experience. KC: Absolutely. So, where are you with that? As far as using that in what you’re kind of... you’re going down this road, you’re investigating the Nazi connection behind our government and what’s going on now in America, and... So how does the remote viewing help you in that journey? JM: Well, it’s [laughs] actually not much at all, which is surprising and probably pretty stupid. But it’s like, you know, I know I should exercise a whole lot more than I do but I just don’t because I’m too busy doing other things, and it’s the same thing with remote viewing. I really probably should sit down, at least once a day, and try to keep my remote viewing skills up to razor edge but I don’t, [laughs] because... KC: But you are using your intuition, right? JM: Right. KC: In your investigations... JM: It’s helped me learn to even give more trust to my intuition. KC: Right. So, where are we going as a country right now, and why? JM: The United States has always been -- at least been attempted to be -- dominated by a wealthy elite, and that goes all the way back. Alexander Hamilton and his rich friends, they wanted to run the country, because they felt like that the rich people knew how to handle things and somehow had better sense than everybody else. So, that’s nothing new, and as a result the United States has always had a somewhat conservative bend to it. And that’s ok too, because ‘specially when you have a great country with... full of resources and everybody’s prospering and, you know, you want to... let’s conserve everything we have. So there’s nothing inherently wrong with that. But, unfortunately, with the influx of National Socialists -- which in the German language the acronym of which is NAZI -- with the influx of Nazis after World War II, being aided and abetted and funded by Wall Street financiers and people who consider themselves globalists, they have no particular interest in the United States, per se; they want to try to run the world. First into the military industrial complex, and then into the defense industries, and then into academia, and then into other professions, this National Socialism has been worming its way into the United States since after World War II. And it really came to fore when George Herbert Walker Bush became President -- whose grandfather was actually prosecuted by the Federal Government of the United States in late 1942 for being a financial front man for Hitler and the Nazis -- and then his son, George W. And during the eight years of the George W. administration we saw the rise and the dominance of Neo-Cons, or NeoConservatives, which is nothing less than just another name for National Socialism. So we saw this whole country tend towards the right; towards fascism. And because fascism is defined as the blending of state and corporate power, I don’t think there’s anyone who can argue that that’s not the case in the United States today. The big difference is, in Nazi Germany, the state gained control over the corporations, and it was that combination that created that fascist state; and in modern America we have the corporations gaining control over the state through lobbyists and through pacts and through the groups that... they now control the

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government. But the end result’s the same, a blending of corporate and state power, which is fascism. Now after eight years of this fascism, people were beginning to chafe. Even the people who thought they really wanted to support George W. Bush because he said all the right things began to realize that all he was doing was pushing socialist programs and waging unprovoked wars of aggression. So there was a backlash, and now we have shifted from National Socialism to Marxist Socialism, under Barack Obama. But nothing really has changed, because in the Bush W. administration all the top important people were members of the secretive Council on Foreign Relations, which has dominated U.S. foreign policy since before World War II and was created for the express purpose of bringing in a world government. And under the Barack Obama administration we find that all of his top cabinet members, they’re all members of the Council on Foreign Relations. So the very same secretive, wealthy elite is still running this country, only now under the guise of Marxist Socialism. And after four years of Marxist Socialism and the attendant collapse, probably, of the U.S. economy, then we’re going to be all set up to really go for a new dictator -- a new Führer -- as people, in their panic over the economy and over the social programs, they will swing back and vote for some dictator. This is the same methodology that was used in pre-war Germany; by the same people. KC: Ok. Well, enter free energy into that scenario and what do you get? Because we do see the destruction of the American economy; we see the World economy going down, as a matter of fact. But where does free energy kind of fit into this puzzle, if you will, and certainly it’s in Black Projects, as we know and we’ve documented in various videos with various people. I know you’re involved in working with Gordon Novel and the RAM Project, on some level, although I’m not sure how. So maybe you could..? So that puts you in a really interesting position to view how free energy is coming into this puzzle. JM: Right. Well, there are several question marks in the whole equation, and free energy is obviously one of them. If we could break the stranglehold of the monopoly of petrochemicals and come up with some sort of a free energy, the whole equation would change. And this is what’s going on right now. There are some very, very intense, interdicting and covert conflicts going on over which technology that we want to go to; who’s going to control it. For example, we hear talk of fuel cells for vehicles. The reason we don’t have it yet is because they haven’t figured out yet how to get a monopoly over it. So this, again, is going to depend on how the future paradigm begins to shape up. I would like to see some sort of economy set up that’s not monopoly based; that everyone has a little bit of everything. In fact, to give you an example: to me, the biggest example -- and proof -- of conspiracy in the world today is the fact that even while people are sitting here watching this interview, in the back of their mind they realize that somewhere there are literally thousands -- if not millions -- of children starving to death. Now, is it because the Earth cannot produce enough food to feed those children? No, of course not. We have the technology that we could feed and clothe and house and give reasonable, minimal health care to every single person on this planet. KC: Mm hm. JM: So, why don’t we? Well, once you get past the facile explanations such as: Oh, it’s politics, and it’s transportation, and the cost is great, and you know... get past that. It’s that way because somewhere somebody wants it that way. If nobody wanted it that way, it wouldn’t be that way. There’s more of us than there are of these New World Order people. We simply need to get all the people of good conscience and good heart together and say: We don’t want it that way. KC: Absolutely. Well, okay. But there is a ruling elite, right? JM: Right. KC: And you’ve delved into that, I’m sure, in… JM: Right, and I’ve detailed them and tracked their history. KC: Okay, so you’re talking about -- just for the of the video -Bilderbergers, Council on Foreign Relations, certainly Majestic 12, and I know you’re... JM: Trilateral Commission... KC: ...you’re something of an expert on them, right? JM: Mm hm. KC: So, all of these organizations are rolling out an agenda right now, and the question is: how soon is what they’re going to accom... are they going to be done accomplishing this, you know, Fourth Reich, if you call it, in your opinion? Is this something... are we already there? JM: We’re very, very close to a Fourth Reich, because “reich” in German simply means “empire”, and the United States today, of course, is the preeminent empire on the planet. It’s going to be up to us, the members of the empire -- citizens of the empire -whether we act as an empire and become the imperial empire, in which case we’re probably going to take a fall just like the Roman Empire, just like the Third Reich and everybody else. Or, do we try to bring peace, prosperity to everybody instead of trying to lord it over and hog the resources of the planet. And it’s basically just kind of a consciousness shift, is what it is. A good illustration is in my home state of Texas. When I was a kid the highways were just terrible. They were littered because people just, you know, you got through with your drink, you just threw it out the window. And it wasn’t that we thought we were littering and were trying to do bad, we just didn’t know any better. We just said: Ah well, I’m through with that and it’s out the window. But they instituted a Don’t Mess with Texas program; signs everywhere, and they raised the consciousness. And people began

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to realize: Wait, it’s not really right to throw all your trash out on the highway. And I’m not going to try and say that highways in Texas today are spotless, but they are 150 percent better than what they used to be, and not because of any of the littering laws -- although they’re on the books, but I don’t know of anybody that’s ever gotten a ticket for littering -- but the consciousness raising; and we could do the same thing with the people of the United States. The people of the United States are good people. We give more to charity than all the other nations of the world combined. And if we simply understood the truth of the situation and we’re not being pushed from pillar to post by the corporate-controlled mass media, then I think we could probably figure out ways to handle the situation, and to spread the wealth, to where everyone could have a little piece of the American Dream. KC: Well, wouldn’t you say, though, that there’s some kind of plan afoot to take down the American government altogether? I mean, that’s actually what’s being fought behind the scenes? JM: That’s absolutely true and that’s what’s going on. Because the United States has been the biggest stumbling block to these globalists who want to see a one world government, one world socialist system. The reason for that is because in the United States we have a tradition and history of individual freedom. And we have the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, which gives us a legal basis for our individual freedom and liberty. And three, we have guns and we can see to ourselves that we have individual freedom and liberty. But right now there are... there’s a movement afoot under the new Obama administration to register firearms, to register ammunition, and to basically try to disarm the population. And if that ever comes to fruition, then we’re just going to become serfs in a new Middle Age of feudalism. KC: Well, what about China, you know, because there’s talk that China may be set to invade at some point in the future; that we may be having war with China. Have you heard anything to that effect? JM: Well, you know, some Chinese generals are even on the public record saying war with the United States is inevitable. I don’t know why. Right now we’re totally dependent on each other. We’re dependent on China to produce just about everything that we use. You know, go into any store and pick up a product and look on the bottom and it’ll say Made in China. KC: Right. JM: Okay, but then, likewise, they’re dependent upon us because if we’re not there to buy all this junk from them [laughs] they don’t have a market. So, I think that some of this belligerence is concocted. Because actually... KC: Absolutely. JM: If you want to know what the... Here’s the real game plan, okay? KC: Okay. Now, here’s the fallacy in their thinking: there really is no overpopulation problem. I heard this stated some years ago -- I didn’t quite believe it, so I checked -- but it’s absolutely true. The entire 6.5 billion human population could actually live comfortably enough in the state of Texas. JM: This was articulated back in 1948 by a man named Eric Arthur Blair, who was a British Fabian Socialist and very well connected to the royals and to the aristocracy there in England. And I think he actually had a pretty good view on what the overall game plan was, so he wrote it all down in a book under the pen name George Orwell. KC: [laughs] Okay. JM: And, of course, that was 1984. KC: Right. JM: And in there, if you’ll go back and re-read 1984, you’ll find that they had divided the world into three economic blocks. In 1984 they called it Oceania, Asiana and East Asiana. In today’s real world it’s the European Union, the soon to be North American Union and the future Asian Union. And then what they did is they play two of those blocks off against each other perpetually to create the tension necessary for arms races, and for defense spending, and lots of loans going through; that generates profit and control over the population. KC: Right. JM: That’s the game plan. KC: Okay, well that’s a great overview of what’s in operation right now. Do you believe that there’s also... ah, you know, the Georgia Guidestones; basically what they say, which is elimination of the population is one of their objectives? JM: Right. Whoever build the Georgia Guidestones, again I think, was privy to this New World Order agenda. And this is where I do depart from their thinking. I have an interview with General Maxwell Taylor that was done in the early ‘70s and he -being not only our last ambassador to Vietnam but also a ranking member of the Council on Foreign Relations -- I think he was fully articulating their thinking. He said, basically, that by the beginning of the next century -well that’s now -- he said we have to eliminate about a third of the world’s population because, he said, the basic overall problem is overpopulation. And that lays at the heart of all the other problems; pollution and economy and everything. And he said this will be done by limited regional conflicts like Iraq, [laughs] Afghanistan... KC: Uh-huh. JM: ...disease -- AIDS in Africa -- and starvation, which is prevalent in many of the Third World nations. And he said: I’m not sure we can save these people, and I’m not even sure we should try. And so, that is their thinking to decrease the world’s population.

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BR: ...because, of course, we think the way we talk, it’s not the other way round. And so, they don’t work. They catch a fish, they build a house and they light a fire, then they cook a meal and they dance and they do this, and they just live. And this whole work/play dialectic has actually been so deeply ingrained into us in this Western society... JM: Right... BR: ...that we’re victims of this idea; that we’re prisoners... JM: Right. KC: [laughs] Really? JM: Really. So, it’s not a overpopulation problem, it’s a population concentration problem. You have most of the world is jammed into these huge metropolitan areas, big mega-cities, okay? KC: Right. JM: There are other ways of doing things, okay? I could picture a world where you and Bill could live out in a beautiful countryside, a rural setting, okay? Got your little lake there, and you’ve got an orchard, and you’ve got a garden, and you’re just doing great. And when it’s time to go shopping, then you get on your bicycle or your little electric cart and you go down to the little station and you hop a high-speed electric line -- zoom! -that would take you to a shopping centre area, like a huge mall. And you go through there and you do your shopping, okay, and then you zoom back home and get on your bicycle, pedal back to your little place. And you have your own little energy collector generator, alright? You’re self-sufficient energy-wise. And you say: Yeah, but what do I do for work? Well it would be whatever you wanted to do. We’re in an awkward situation now because we’ve all been brought up on this Christian work ethic that says everybody’s got to work. Okay? Well that’s a product of older times when truly everybody had to work just to survive. In fact, that’s why you had to have lots of kids, because you had to have somebody work the fields, so you could produce produce, so you’d have food to eat. But today with technology, you know, just a few mega-farms can raise enough food for everybody. The technology’s there. We could all be living like kings if we demanded it, and if we wanted it, and if we could convince these would-be rulers of the world that we all deserve to have a fair shake at life. KC: Absolutely. BR: I have a nice little anecdote that you might be able to use in some of your lectures. In the Marquesas Islands in the South Pacific -- it’s a French colony which no one’s ever heard of. In their language, they have no word for work. And it’s a really wonderful concept... JM: Right. KC: [laughs] BR: ... because we’ve got to work all the time, and then we’ve got to play, and then they’ve got us by the throat... JM: That’s right. BR ...because we all try to get out of this loop. JM: And if you have a son or daughter and all they want to do is play the guitar and write music, then they must be some kind of bum -- [Kerry laughs] -- because they’re not working! KC: Right. JM: Now, there was a great story, there was a great story about the retired American businessman who goes down to Mexico, and he rents a little fishing boat and he goes out fishing. And he gets to talking with Manuel, the guy that owns the boat, and he says: Manuel, you know, he says: what’s your life like? What do you do? He says: Oh, I get up in the morning, and he says: and I come out and do some fishing, then I go home and take a siesta in the afternoon with my wife, and at night I go into town and sit with my friends and eat and drink and play the guitar and we sing. He says: Well, Manuel, he said: Don’t you understand, if you don’t take a siesta, if you’d fish more during the day you’d make more money and with that more money you could buy another boat. And with two boats then, you know, you’d get more fish and pretty soon you could buy more boats. And the next thing you know you’ll have a fleet of boats. And then what you do, is you come to the United States and then you can incorporate, and then you can sell stock, and then you can have a whole fleet of boats and you can make, you know... and pretty soon you could become a millionaire. And he says: how long would that take? He says: Ah, twenty, thirty years. He said: And then what’d I do? He says: Well, then you could retire and come to Mexico, and fish in the morning and take a siesta in the afternoon, and visit your friends at night... And it’s like: Oh, wait a minute! [laughs]

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JM: He’s already doing that... KC: Yeah... I see. JM: So, it’s all in the mind. It’s all in the consciousness and how we perceive things and whether or not you think you have to be in the rat race, and whether or not you think you have to have more toys than everybody else so you can prove that you’re a success. The most successful people I know are not necessarily the richest people I know. KC: Oh, yeah, definitely! Well, I mean, that’s a very good point. Also, the idea is, behind free energy, if you want to call it that, that the energy sources could make that possible for everyone. JM: Well, we’ve had this for a long, long, long time. Nikola Tesla was trying to tell us how we could tap the basic energy of the earth and everyone could just have their own energy. Of course, he got shut down by Edison and by the people who wanted to put in the electrical systems and make sure that you buy energy. And today, see, they’ve got a lock on it because, you know, you could be Bill Gates, you could be the richest guy in the whole world, but he still pays an electric bill each month. KC: Mm hm. JM: It all comes back to perception and consciousness. Years ago, I got really big on solar energy, you know, and I said: Well, you know, gee, either the sun shines or it doesn’t. If it doesn’t, we’re all out of luck, and if it’s shining, then why don’t we capture the sun’s radiant energy and use that for energy. So I was talking with an energy expert and he very patiently and condescendingly explained to me that: Well, you don’t understand. He said: It would take solar panels covering an area the size of the state of Arizona to provide enough power to power the city of Los Angeles. And I thought: Oh, okay. And I checked him out, and that’s probably true. Where’s the flaw in his thinking? Central generation. He can only think in terms of central generation... KC: Sure... JM: ...generating that juice and piping it to L.A. What if everybody in L.A. put a solar panel on their roof? KC: And sun is so plentiful there that, you know... JM: There you go! KC: ...they could gather enough energy... KC: Right. JM: That’s right. KC: ...in a matter of days, really. JM: Exactly. And why don’t they do that? Because, the electric company... JM: And obviously, even by voting you’re not going to get anything changed much. In 2004, they voted in a democratic Congress trying to curb the excesses of the Bush administration, and what changed? Nothing! We’re still in Iraq fighting, we’re still in Afghanistan fighting... KC: No one would make money. JM: The electric company hasn’t figured out how to make a cloud come hang over your house if you don’t pay your electric bill[Kerry laughs]Okay? So, it’s all about power and control, it’s not about technology. KC: So, yeah, absolutely, and this is the paradigm that humans are operating under at the moment. JM: Right. KC: So, where is the United States headed in your estimation? Because in some places right now we have Native American tribes that are trying to secede from the Union, in essence, create their own currency... JM: We got 21 states now that have sovereignty bills pending; they’re trying to cut loose. It’s going to get real interesting. Basically, they have to destroy the United States, okay? And what they’re trying to do is wreck the economy, panic the people, and get everybody to accept the North American Union. And to do this... The way they’ll do this is by saying the only way out of this economic mess is to combine the economies of Mexico, Canada, and the United States. And, of course, we’ve all heard talk of the Amero, which I have conflicting information, and of course you see pictures on the internet, and they say: Oh, here it is, and it’s here now, and yet, that’s apparently not the case. That’s just some coins people have struck as kind of a gimmick or a trinket. But I also have heard from people that I feel like know what they’re talking about, that the Amero money is already printed and waiting; awaiting distribution. This is very reminiscent of some years ago. I heard... there was internet rumors running around about this Red Money. Money that was going to be pinkish in color and have red ink and dyes in it, you know, like that. And the government denied that, and they said: No, that’s not right, that’s not true. And yet, now it is, you know, we do have this, the new money and it is reddish and pinkish and all like that. So, you know... KC: But states are not going to fall for this, it doesn’t sound like. And even... JM: They are balking. They're balking and they’re bucking in the traces, and that’s good. The thing is, this is the salvation, okay? We are not going to change the federal structure of the United States; it’s too entrenched, it’s too bureaucratic, too many people are feeding at the trough, and they’re not just going to voluntarily get up and go away.

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KC: Right, and we’re bailing people out -- or companies out, not people... JM: Exactly. KC: No. KC: ...to much greater sums than ever thought of. JM: And, the Bush administration, which was hailed as the epitome of good conservatism, is the one that nationalized the banking business, you know. [laughs] Socialism, right down the line. KC: Well, isn’t the bottom line that the two party system was just a fallacy anyway, because... JM: It’s pretty much always been a joke... KC: ...it’s always... JM: ... but it’s definitely a joke now. Particularly, I guess it’s summed up in the election of 2006. You could vote for Democrat John Kerry, who was from an oil family and a member of the secretive Skull and Bones Society; or you could vote for his cousin George W. Bush, from an oil family and a member of the Skull and Bones Society. There’s no choice. KC: Yeah. JM: There’s no difference, and anybody who still pays attention to Democrat and Republican, they’re just getting snookered. KC: Okay, so to get back to this situation. So you have... you’ve got these families that are running everything. You’ve got an agenda to take down the United States, but the United States is not going to go. I mean, you know, people are... they’re actually incredible citizens; they actually want to save the country... JM: Right. KC: They’re patriots, if you will... JM: Right. KC: So... JM: The problem is they’re all divided, okay? KC: Okay. JM: And like, I’ve traveled around the country, and I’ve found pockets of people everywhere who understand what’s going on, who care about what’s going on, who want to do something about it. But they all feel like, that they’re in the minority and that they’re all alone because these people control the mass media. KC: Mm hm. JM: They really do, because in our conventional history, it’s like: Well, there was the Russian Revolution, and then out of that grew Communism, and then they... we had a Cold War with them versus Capitalism and yadda-yadda-yadda... The truth of the matter is, is that the very same people in Wall Street and the city of London -- these Internationalists, these global financiers -- they created Communism in Russia. When the Russian Revolution broke out Lenin was in Switzerland. Trotsky was in New York living on Rockefeller property, okay? They sent them into Russia to capture the Revolution for the Bolsheviks and turn Russia into a communist state, which they did. And the idea was, I think, to build up a communist East versus a capitalist West, and they were going to perpetuate the Cold War many years before we actually saw it actually come into being. JM: ... because we’re not a republic anymore; we’re just the Empire. And all they talk about is democracy, democracy. We have to protect democracy; we got to spread democracy. Well what’s democracy? It’s ruled by the majority; so, in other words, the epitome of democracy in action is a lynch mob. KC: Mm hm. JM: Well, that’s not what we were given. We were not given a democracy; we don’t want a pure democracy. We want a democratic republic; and what’s the difference? Because in the democratic republic, if you’re charged with a capital crime then you have to... you get to face your accusers, you get to have legal representation, you get to go into a court/legal system, and you get to cross-examine the evidence against you; you get to have a fair trial. And then if you’re found guilty and you have a chance for an appeal, and it’s turned down, then they can lynch you. KC: [laughs] JM: Okay? KC: Right... JM: That’s the way it’s supposed to work. But we are no longer a rule of... a nation ruled by law. KC: Right. The corporations basically rule... JM: Corporations tell us what to do. And again, it’s that takeover-of-the-state mechanism by corporations; it’s the very dictionary definition of fascism. KC: So let’s get back into what happened during the time of Paperclip, and during the time of the Atomic Bomb, and maybe you could talk a little bit about what really went on back then because I think a lot of people need to get their history, you know, straightened out in their heads. JM: And this is why, by the way, that you’ve... When is the last time you heard a national politician refer to the Republic? They don’t even talk about the Republic anymore...

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But the problem was, it threatened to get out of hand. There were strong Communist parties in France, England, Italy, Germany -even the United States. And so they... we talk about this One World Government, but they really don’t want a true One World Government, because then they can’t play one nation off against another, or one economic block off against another. So this made them fearful, and they decided they had to stop the spread of Communism. The one country that was in a position geographically and economically to act as a block against the spread of Communism was Germany. So they went in and found a German army intelligence agent, and they put him in charge of a little political party called the German Worker’s Party which he quickly changed the name to the National Socialist German Worker’s Party (NSDAP) -- the acronym of which is NAZI -- and, of course, that was Adolf Hitler. And Hitler provided this block against the spread of Communism. Then they perpetrated this whole idea of the Nazis were bitter enemies of the Communists, okay? KC: And meanwhile, they’re being financed by Bush... JM: Right... JM: And run by the same people... KC: ...Prescott Bush, behind the scenes... JM: Exactly, yeah, and the Rockefellers... KC: ...and I -- what is it -- Farben? JM: IG Farben. KC: IG Farben. JM: And the head of IG Farben was Hermann Schmitz, and Hermann Schmitz owned as much Standard Oil stock as John D. Rockefeller did. It was all the same International globalists, if you will. Now the problem was, is that Hitler got too strong and the Germans were a little too efficient, and they over-ran Europe. They were moving into North Africa, they were pushing into Russia, taking over Norway, and were threatening Britain. Now all of a sudden it looked like they were going to have a One World National Socialist system. And oh, they didn’t want that either! But mostly they didn’t want Germany in charge of the world economic order because this had been the purview of the city of London -- those bankers with the Bank of England -- and their Wall Street compadres, okay? So, at some point, even though they had created Hitler, put him into power, financed his rise; they turned against him, and that’s when we had World War II. They managed to stop Germany, push it back. And yes, we defeated Germany in World War II, but we didn’t defeat the Nazis. The Nazis were still much in power, and they cut deals. They swapped their exotic technology, their rocket technology, their energy manipulation technology, their mind control technology, chemical technology and pharmaceutical technology to the United States in exchange for immunity. KC: ...and even the history of the world. So you also could talk about what the Nazis had by virtue of their occult investigations, and possibly even channeling, and how they got what is, in essence, free energy -- maybe even star gate technology, certainly UFOs. JM: Exotic technology. KC: Yeah. JM: Yeah, and the question’s always been: How did the Nazis get so far ahead of us in science? KC: Exactly. JM: They were broadcasting the 1936 Berlin Olympics over television. In fact, by the end of the war, they had televisionguided missiles. Holy cow! We didn’t know that... and there’s good reason to believe they actually possessed and had tested a nuclear weapon. But by the time... they did not have a reliable delivery system, and by the time they were ready to maybe unleash a nuclear weapon, it was spring of 1945 and the Russians were closing in from the east and Allies from the west, and it was almost all over. And if they had set off an atomic bomb somewhere it would not have ended the war, it would’ve simply meant the total devastation and destruction of Germany. Now, where did they get all this? For years I’d heard stories that: Well, they captured a flying saucer somewhere and they backengineered it. But yet, every time you try to track those stories, it never went anywhere. And I am now of the opinion, based on information that I have now, and based on documentation that has come out of the old Soviet Union now with the collapse of Communism, that the Germans had their own remote viewers. BR: Mm hm. We brought them in over the war and in the late ‘40s and early ‘50s, John J. McCloy -- who had been head of National City Bank which was one of the largest lenders of money to preWorld War II Nazi Germany -- was made High Commissioner of Germany. He pardoned thousands of unreconstructed Nazis; brought them over to the United States. His protégé was Allen Dulles, who then was head of the CIA for many years. And under Dulles, he whitewashed their backgrounds, and put them all -- these Nazis -- into our military industrial complex. And that began the National Socialist infiltration of the United States system. KC: Wow, that’s an excellent summation of really what happened behind the scenes. And this is what most people don’t know... JM: No, you’re never taught this in school. KC: ...about American history...

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JM: Of course, they didn’t call it remote viewing, because that was a term that was coined back when the CIA and the National Security Agency in this country was studying and working with psychic warfare. But they had the same type thing. Back then the Germans had been very much involved in the occult, if you want to call it that, all the way back in... prior to the 1920s. And they would have séances, and they would have all of these channelings, or whatever you want to call it, but at the bottom line of it is what we call remote viewing. It was the use of these psychic abilities. BR: This was the Vril Society, wasn’t it? JM: The Vril Society. And this was largely based on the philosophies of Madame Blatavsky and her Theosophical Society. They were heavy into that. And, of course, Hitler was put into power with the help of the Thule-Gesellschaft, or the Thule Society, which was an occult society made up of some of the wealthiest aristocrats there in Germany, and industrialists. They were big into this stuff, into spiritualism, I think, is what they called it back then. And so they... according to the information I have there was even a unit within the German military called Doctor Greenbaum, and this was basically their remote viewers. And, interestingly enough, this was under a broader umbrella program called Majik [he spells] M-A-J-I-K. And that’s really interesting because, as you well know, the Majestic 12 -- or Majik 12 -- that’s always talked about in the UFO literature being the people at the top who are in charge of the secrecy over UFO technology was M-A-J-I-C 12 to begin with; which is the anglicized version of M-A-J-I-K -- the German version. And I’m wondering if perhaps, when we brought their mind control experts and their pharmaceutical experts and their rocket scientists all over here after the war, if we didn’t bring some of their psychic scientists, too. KC: Okay, that makes sense. Well, what about Vannover Bush? He was head of Majestic 12 that was set up by the Truman... supposedly set up by the Truman administration, right? JM: Mm hm. It was. KC: To handle the problem of UFOs and what it meant to America, but... JM: Right. KC: ...that’s a very interesting trail to follow if they already were in operation in Germany. JM: Right, exactly. And you have to understand that that really was the genesis of the modern National Security state -- the National Security Act of 1947, which began to be put together just a few days after something fell from the skies at Roswell, New Mexico in July of 1947. And, by August, they're cobbling together quickly this National Security Act, and in September they actually held President Truman -- delayed him on the tarmac there at National Airport when he was trying to get home to visit his dying mother -- so they could rush on board and get him to sign this National Security Act of 1947. And, since the National Security Council -- and we hear this all the time, almost any time that we’ve gone to fight some brushfire war and the Iran-Contra scandal, on and on -- it’s always the National Security Council is involved. And yet, I’ll bet you virtually no one listening knows who is the National Security Council. Well I’ll tell you. It’s four people: it’s the President, the Vice President, the Secretaries of State and Defense. Three of those are appointed by the President. Why the rush? Well, because they had to get control over all of this information. What the National Security Act of 1947 did was create the CIA and also change the name of the Defense Depart... War Department to the Defense Department; a little public relations move. But also in there -- and what has been little noticed -- was the creation of the National Security Council. Well, by very definition, that’s in charge of anything that has to do with national security. UFOs? National security. Nazi infiltration? National security. High technology? National security.

KC: Mm hm. JM: So by signing the National Security Act of 1947 into law, we basically set up a dictatorship, because the President is now in charge of everything that has to do with national security, and this bypasses Congress and the news media and the public. This is when we began to move into a National Security state which, at the heart of which, lay these Nazis -- unreconstructed Nazis. KC: So, to get back to Germany, you have them discovering free energy somehow. I mean certainly they had really amazing scientists... JM: Right. KC: Okay. And they were looking into other dimensions using psychics, using remote viewing, using possible channeling. And what you’re saying is they may have been also getting technology out of those dimensions; information that they needed to build things. JM: Right. KC: Right? JM: Mm hm.

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KC: And there is a connection to Egypt, right? And to the Sumerians... to Sumerians’ cylinder seals... JM: A lot of this is -- all of this -- is part of... KC: A lot of the technology's back there. JM: ...the Earth’s history. KC: Right. JM: And it all fits together. For example: for the longest time everybody thought that Egypt was the world’s first, greatest civilization. Well, you know, that’s because it wasn’t until the mid-1800s that they began to discover these strange mounds over in Mesopotamia -- which is now modern-day Iraq -- and they began to excavate and find that there's huge cities under there. And they began to discover the Sumerian civilization which predates the Egyptians by at least five thousand years. So what we’re actually finding out today is, is that apparently there was, in antediluvian times, a worldwide, highly technological civilization that probably covered the entire world. This is why they found pyramids in Central America, South America, China, Eastern Europe, the Giza Plateau... And yet, something happened. There was either Earth changes, or there was a war or something, and this whole civilization crumbled. And what we know is our written history: the Sumerians, and then the Babylonians, and then the Assyrians, and then the Phoenicians, and then the Egyptians and... These were all degradations of the same civilization. And the proof of that, for example, is in the history of Egypt. The earliest dynasties were the most advanced dynasties, and then it devolved, [laughs] it degraded. And went all the way down until we ended up in the Middle -- in the Dark Ages, and then we’ve been slowly pulling ourselves out ever since. And this is why that the people in the know -- and knowledge is power, and they want to keep the knowledge, and they don’t want us to know what’s going on -- but this is why they are rushing around the whole world just like Indiana Jones chasing the Nazis, who were chasing the historic and religious... KC: The icons and... JM: ...icons, yeah, and artifacts... KC: ...yeah, absolutely. JM: ...you know, because they’re trying to get to this ancient technology. KC: Okay, so, you just spent some time in Egypt, didn’t you? JM: Yes. KC: And did you find anything when you were there -- [Jim laughs] -- that blew your mind, or... JM: Yes. Under the Temple of Seti -- which is an immense temple and just filled with hieroglyphics -- underneath that, is a huge temple called the Osireion. And it is huge megalithic blocks that probably weigh ten and twelve tons each. No hieroglyphics on these, but they’re stacked up very similar to Stonehenge. But they are not rough rock like Stonehenge, these are perfectly, finely cut pieces that butt up against each other so perfectly you can’t even put a piece of paper in there. And this is under the Temple of Seti, which means there was something going on over there long before the Egyptians came along. KC: Are they releasing this into the public domain? JM: No. In fact, we weren’t even supposed to be able to go down there [laughs], but we managed to kind of slip down there and see what was going on. This is the stuff they keep hidden. The same thing is that -- on the Sphinx -- it is just obvious that there is deep water erosion grooves on the sides of the Sphinx and on the sides of the ground surrounding it, which means that this is vertical water erosion. the Sphinx and the area around it had sat out under heavy rains. KC: You actually got into this place, which is under the Temple of Seti, you’re saying, which is built like Stonehenge, has polished stones... JM: Right. No hieroglyphics, it obviously predates the Seti Temple, and so this, again, more proof that there was something going on of a highly technological nature long before the Egyptians came along. KC: So, do they know, are they dating it at all? Has anybody... did anybody give you an indication when, what it was dated? JM: No. There is a huge resistance to all of this, and I couldn’t quite understand the resistance until I visited in Egypt and realized that they’re totally dependent upon the tourist dollar and upon the whole idea of the Pharaohs and Cleopatra and Nefertiti and da-da-da-da-da-da-da... and they just really can’t afford to back off of that. They don’t want to admit that there was anything going on other than the conventional history. And, of course, everyone else who’s an Egyptologist or whatever -- they’ve got an entire lifetime, they’ve got books written, they’ve got a whole career based on their theories and their interpretation of what the Egyptians were doing. And to say that that really wasn’t quite the truth of it, then that just throws it all into a cocked hat, and they’re totally opposed to that. However, the geologists who go and look at this very obvious water erosion on the Sphinx will tell you that that’s obviously water erosion, and historically, there’s not been any heavy rains on the Giza Plateau for 10,500 years. Which means the Sphinx, and probably the Great Pyramid, predate the Egyptians by at least 5,000 years. And five thousand years, you know, it’s hard for us to think of five thousand years. KC: [laughs]

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JM: Most people today think about the war between the states, you know, that just sounds like ancient history. And yet, my grandmother told me about when her father came back from the war. So it really hasn’t been that far back. And yet to us it’s ancient history, and that was, what, only about a hundred and fifty years ago. So to talk about five thousand years; my God, we just... we have a hard time even contemplating that. But there’s no question that it points out to alternative origins for the human race and the human species. And again, how can we figure out what’s going on today if we don’t know where we came from, or the truth of our beginnings? And, what I was going to tell you is -- this is really fascinating -- is that they are bricking up the sides of the Sphinx. Ostensibly because they said: Well, it’s deteriorating and we don’t want it to be destroyed, so we’re going to brace it up, and we’re going to fix it up... KC: Oh, wow! KC: ...slave labor in Egypt and all of that. JM: ...and preserve it, you know. But what they’re doing is they’re covering up these very... KC: The signs of erosion... JM: ...the very obvious signs of vertical water erosion which means it predates the Egyptians. KC: Well, what about the fact that there’s also supposed to be a library inside the Sphinx? JM: There’s another thing. You know, Edgar Cayce -- back in the ‘30s, the great Seer -- he says: Well, there’s a room under the left paw of the Sphinx. The Army remote viewers, by the way, took a look at that and they said: Yeah, there’s a room in there; and I said: What’s in it? And they said: Jars, and vases, with scrolls, and tablets... you know. And I’m going: Whoa! Holy Cow! The Hall of Records. We can really find out what’s going on. You know? KC: Absolutely. JM: And then they used ground-penetrating radar and they say: Yeah, we find a cavity there, under the left paw of the Sphinx. So I’m going: Okay, great! Let’s dig down there and find out what it is! To this very day, as far as I know, nobody’s done this; they won’t allow this. They will not allow us to get to the truth... KC: Yes. JM: ...of the origins of humankind. KC: Exactly. BR: Zahi Hawass, don’t you believe, does know what’s going on here? And he’s smart enough to take account of all these... this alternative research and remote viewing, and to try and get that information for himself. Do you think there’s something going on there behind the background? JM: Right. KC: They have a vested interest in perpetuating the myth of slave labor in Egypt, but in reality, that’s not what happened. JM: Well you know, Kerry, that’s something that got me onto this, a long time ago before I seriously studied ancient technology and ancient civilizations, was simply the fact that we are told that the pyramids were built by the slaves of the Egyptians who dragged these stones through the desert, you know, without any [laughs] real modern wheels or anything else, and somehow built these huge edifices. Well, who were the slaves of the Egyptians? The Hebrews. KC: Mm hm. JM: Okay? And who is one of the most well documented peoples in the world? The Hebrews. They had oral traditions going down for thousands of years and then finally wrote it into the books of the Old Testament of the Bible. There it all is. And I defy you to go in there and find me one verse that says: Oh, by the way, Uncle Herbie spent his whole life dragging stones through the desert, you know, to build those pyramids. It didn’t happen! It didn’t happen. There’s something else going on. And why don’t they want us to know about that? Well, over and above the fact that Egypt is totally dependent on the tourist dollar, based on the Egyptian mythos is the fact that this would tell us, possibly, of our extra-terrestrial origins. And, more importantly, it would point us in the way of alternative technology and energy sources... KC: Absolutely... JM: ...and this is... KC: ... we’re talking about sound technology... JM: Right. JM: I personally suspect that somebody has already gotten in there. I just can’t believe that everybody knows it’s there and nobody'll go look to see what it is. But you have to understand that the Egyptian authorities... who pays their salaries? KC: Yeah, absolutely... JM: And who do they owe allegiance to? Who has trained them? You know, again, we’re back to the Evil Empire. [laughs] KC: What about the Coral... You know the Coral Palace, or whatever they call it, down by Florida, where he proved that moving those stones was done by a whole different means than what they talked about with... JM: Right.

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KC: ...we’re talking about, I don’t know, scalar waves, we’re talking about mind over matter... JM: Right, exactly. KC: Which is... this is all stuff in the Black Projects. JM: Yeah. Sonic frequencies, who knows. Have you seen the hieroglyphs of the figure standing there holding the big tubes? KC: Mm hm. KC: ...into such a place... JM: Okay, and there’s a cord that runs out and behind it and goes to the little power thing, you know -- they call it the Jedi, the tower -- I call it the oscillator, okay? When I saw those, and if you go up and look real close, unlike the rest of the caricatures on the hieroglyphics of figures where they just have the outline of the person cut into the stone, this has a double outline to it. KC: Hm. JM: And we were remarking on that and wondering what does that mean, and I’m thinking -- being a cartoonist, among other things -- is that when you want to show movement, you draw extra lines. You know, if you draw a hand, and you’ve got some lines here, it’s like the hand’s moving. So, by drawing a double outline, they’re showing that they’re going aye-aye-aye [makes sounds and shakes as if electrocuted]. KC: Ah! [laughs] Okay. JM: [laughs] They’re actually using this equipment! KC: Right. JM: See? It’s very carefully... it’s just a second outline, okay? It’s not like they tried to do something else. But there’s a lot of interesting things over there. Some of the temples have been defaced by Knights Templar; Maltese crosses carved in over the hieroglyphics. KC: Mm hm. JM: And of course, see, we’re talking about stuff that’s handed down for thousands of years, and it’s been debased and defaced and vandalized by everybody and anybody. So we’re just scratching around in these ruins and trying to piece together what actually happened. I guess the corollary would be, you know, five thousand years from now they’ll find a Coke bottle buried in the dirt somewhere and there are going to be whole scientific papers written about: I wonder what this was about. Obviously, since it’s in the female form, it must be some kind of fertility goddess icon that they worshipped. You know, this is... we’re just making this stuff up, because we don’t know. KC: Yeah, absolutely. So, where do we go from here? I mean, you covered the gamut and this is an amazing overview of an interview that you’ve given us. And I don’t even... I mean, you clearly show us how you can go from Egypt, to the Nazis, to the JM: Sure. KC: ...where we could have access to free energy, access to living -- keeping all the people alive on the planet and having them fed, clothed, housed. We’re not doing it, but this is... JM: Why not? KC: ...a big step in the right direction. JM: Why not? Why aren’t we doing it? KC: That’s... JM: You know why? Because we sit back and we let criminals and Nazis [laughs] gain control over the corporations and over the government that’s supposed to be looking out for us and taking care of us. And, hey! There’s more of us than there are of them. Just say: No. KC: I think there’s... JM: Throw the bums out. KC: ...also the myth of freedom, because if people start to realize -- and I think, certainly, they are realizing, and this is the danger of this economic downturn that’s hitting America -- is that Americans are going to realize they’re not so free, okay? That they’ve been programmed by the media, by this, by that, and they’re also curtailed by their government. And probably these, these limitations are coming down even harder and faster. So if you realize you’re not free, that’s the beginning of waking up. JM: That’s right. And if you think you’re free, just ask yourself: can you just pick up and move? Can you just pick up and go move to another state, or move to another country? And chances are, you’re going to go: Oh, no. I can’t do that. Why? Because: Well, I’d lose my job, and I couldn’t make my payments, and I couldn’t make my mortgage, and I couldn’t pay my rent, and I... You’re not free! You’re not free. You don’t even have any idea what freedom is. So we’ve got to get back to the idea of freedom. And this economic turn-down or even collapse may end up being a really good thing. KC: Absolutely. American government; and you can draw a through-line from one to the other. JM: Yeah. KC: It’s an amazing thing. So what is your solution at this point? Because I see that you can actually foresee that we could change the world... JM: Sure.

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JM: Because I know a lot of people who, you know, they’ve been taught to keep their nose to the grindstone and be loyal to their company and work and put in a good long... good hours of work for your boss and then you’ll be taken care of, and now they’re finding out that: No, no it doesn’t work that way. You know, you’ll work your tail off until you’re sixty-four, and then a year before your retirement they’re going to let you go -- downsize you -- so they don’t have to pay you that retirement. And this is happening more and more often, and people are beginning to realize this. KC: And they’re doing away with your savings, and your Social Security... JM ...and your savings are going away... KC: It’s all going to be gone... JM: ...your 401 is pffft, you know, it’s down 40 percent or more... KC: ...and retirement’s no good for anybody, anyway... JM: No, there’s no retirement. There’s no money in Social Security, and everybody says: Yeah, well I’ve got these insurance policies... Yeah, big deal. What if the insurance company goes broke? What have you got? You got a piece of paper, that’s all you got. So, number one, start acquiring tangible assets. Get a little property you own yourself; get something you can grow tomatoes on. Get a home, get a building, get something you can actually have some tangible assets. Then start working doing things that you enjoy doing. This is so cool. I know so many people who for years worked for the company, worked for the company, and then the company just cut them loose. And they found out what good that does and what loyalty does for you. So then, in desperation, they run around and they try to find another corporate job, and that gets tough -- and particularly the older you get the tougher it gets. So then, all of a sudden they finally have to, out of desperation, they start thinking for themselves, and they go: Well, you know, what do I like to do? Well, I like to grow flowers. So, the next thing they know they’re growing flowers, and they’re cutting flowers and they’ve started their own little flower delivery business. And the first thing you know they’re doing pretty good. And they’re making a living, and they’re getting along. They’re not getting rich, but they’re surviving; they’re doing just fine. And they’re doing what they love to do. And that... KC: That’s a real key. JM: ...that’s a real key thing... KC: Yeah, absolutely. JM: ...and really, really important. And then, as times get tough, if we just all start networking and working together as a community, you know. You grow some chickens and... KC: Bartering. JM: ...and I’ll swap you my tomatoes for your eggs, and we’ll all just get along. KC: That’s true. JM: Years ago, I had kinfolks down in east Texas, and they were just scraping out, living there in the dirt -- red dirt in east Texas -and I remember asking them when I was a kid, I said: How’d you guys get along during the Depression? They just laughed. They said: Hey, what Depression? They says: We didn’t have anything to begin with [laughter], we didn’t have anything during the Depression. We just kept doing what we were doing, and we got on through! And, we’re all going to get on through. We’re all going to do, actually, we’re all going to do good. In fact, we might even end up doing a lot better because we’re not going to be, you know... But here’s the key thing -- step one -- turn off the TV. KC: [laughs] JM: Just turn the sucker off. And you know what, after a couple weeks you’re going to find out two things. You’re going to find out, number one, you hadn’t missed anything. If World War Three starts, believe me, you’re going to know it, okay? So you’re not going to be out of the loop, all you’re going to be missing is all that celebrity news and the latest shooting somewhere, and, you know, who cares? And number two, you’re going to find that, all of a sudden you got some time on your hands, and you’re going to start reading. And as you start reading, it’s going to stimulate your brain processes because it’s not a passive thing. You have to actually read and think about the words, and then think about the concepts. You’re going to start thinking, and you’re going to start: Wow! You’re going to start thinking about things, and you’re going to get a better appreciation of what’s really going on, and what, maybe, you could do about it. KC: All right. Thank you very much, Jim Marrs... JM: Thank you. KC: ...that’s really fabulous. -- End of interview -But conversation continues… BR: That’s a good one, Jim. JM: All right.

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KC: Thank you. JM: [laughs] You go down there... KC: Guess who’s down there? JM: You’re going to really... KC: The Bush family in Paraguay, right? JM: Exactly. With... how many acres they get? Something like... KC: I don’t know. JM: I keep hearing various things. I thought it was nine thousand acres, and then I heard it was ninety-eight thousand acres, so... BR: Thank you, sir. KC: That’s great. That was a marathon. JM: Yeah, exactly. JM: Well, it was, but it’s always great to actually get in and talk about the real stuff, you know. KC: Yeah. Well, I’m real happy you did that. Thank you very much for going into all those places for us because, you know, you kind of went off the record a little there, and just... JM: Well, I’ll tell you... but you know, it’s funny it’s... [laughs] When you said: You draw ancient Egypt and the Nazis and American, it’s like ... KC: It’s an amazing thing. JM: It is. And the thing is, though, it really is, because like, if you saw my presentation, I pointed out how the Treasure of Solomon which came out of Egypt, and then it’s buried in Jerusalem, and then it’s... half of it’s taken to Rome... [laughs] and then from Rome it goes to the... KC: And then it makes the Nazis possible, right? JM: Yeah! And then the Nazis end up getting it... KC: And then it comes to America, right, on those... KC: We’re all good! JM: Yeah. KC: ...on the U-Boat, or whatever. JM: Yeah. KC: And then Argentina. And now, supposedly, all these people are going... their whole solution is: go down to South America and get away from America, right? JM: [laughs] KC: But... Hello? [laughs] KC: Sure. Absolutely, yeah... it’s crazy, what they did in Argentina, I mean it’s just... That’s an amazing, amazing story as well, so... JM: We’re good, we’ll have a nice life. [laughs] Isn’t that an interesting concept! KC: Well, I know with the Bushes in South America, we’re going to be in good shape anyway, you know what I’m saying? Let them go to Paraguay, you know? JM: Yeah, they’re all going to end up in hell, anyways, so what the hell. KC: They were planning that the whole time. JM: Well, they’re ready to bail out of the United States. KC: Exactly. JM: See, this is the thing; they got a movie they’re going to show here, which is really interesting. It’s got a really fascinating theme to it, which is that this whole thing building up to Armageddon, and that the economy’s collapsing, and the environment’s collapsing, and da-de-da-de-da... This is all a scam -- not to the public -- but to the New World Order people. KC: [laughs] JM: And they really think that it’s all about to come down, so they all had been secretly working on... KC: Jumping ship. [laughs] JM: They’re jumping ship. So they all leave the planet [applauds] and we’re here [laughs] we can go on... KC: And you have to look at that and say: Well, there has to be a plan there, as well.

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JM: It is. KC: I mean, there is no stone unturned. Antarctica, right? JM: Right. KC: They’re there. So... JM: It’s a whole amazing thing... KC: It‘s so crazy. Okay, well... JM: Well, thanks for the coffee... KC: And thank you, Jim. This has just been great... JM: And I’m good... oh gosh, in fact I guess I’ve got to run somewhere else now. BR: Jim, it’s a pleasure. Thanks for giving us your time, your energy... JM: Bill. Thank you. BR: ... and we say: Just Do Something. BR: ...your focus and your passion. That‘s all a man can give. JM: All right, we’re in California Suite, or Arizona Suite? KC: We’re in Arizona right now... JM: We’re in Arizona. Okay. All right. Y’all take care. JM: Do something! Do what you can do... Exactly! Maybe it’s just writing letters to the editor, you know, but... KC: Absolutely. JM: Or getting out marching and carrying a sign. I don’t know, it’s just whatever you can do, but by God, do something! [laughs... KC: Okay, take care. JM: Hey, just be kind... KC: Yeah. JM: Don’t make me look like a bigger idiot than I am! KC: No, you’re fabulous. BR: We’ll do well. Don’t worry. We’ll do well for you, Jim. JM: Okay. BR: You can trust us, we promise. KC: You’re absolutely fabulous. We can run it by you. Whatever you want to change, just let us know. JM: Okay. End sequence

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Project Camelot: Duncan O'Finioan -Telephone Interview Transcript
13 April 2009
The alternate personalities were the torture-based integrated personalities created by the government scientists, or the mil lab scientists, that were used on various black operations. But what is happening is, these alternate personalities are becoming selfaware. Almost like a computer becoming self-aware. You see, one personality was not supposed to be in touch with the other personality. We were supposed to switch. The words, symbols, signals, tones, sound, etcetera. But some of us are starting to switch on a daily basis. I'm switching without realizing it. It doesn't take the fight-or-flight syndrome to make me switch anymore. Could be a glitch in the original programming. I definitely believe it's something that was completely unforeseen by the original programmers. We have found four distinct personalities in me. You know, I have the one that's talking now, I have One-Nine-Seven, I have a little boy. And, what we've been able to ascertain is that the little boy is who... the personality is who I was at the moment of the split. So the little boy's just like lost in there. Then there's one that we call the berserker, and that personality is damn near animalistic. Bill Ryan (BR): To use the words from The Hulk movie, that you wouldn't want to make angry, right? DO’F: Right. Right. That one manifested a couple of months ago, and the only thing it wanted to know was: What were the orders. And when no orders to be given, it went back to sleep. BR: That's very interesting. KC: But... DO’F: Sounds like you're at the bottom of a deep, deep well. Part of this is probably my hearing problem. I'm having a lot of pain in my ears the past couple 'a days. KC: Okay. Duncan O'Finioan (DO’F): It's great to be back with you guys. KC: We're going to go into some of the things that you've been experiencing lately and try to kind of “catch up” because it's been quite a while since we've spoken. We're going to be talking about some things that are going to be on record here, and then there also will be some asides that will be off record. DO’F: Sure. What's going on with myself and some others that came out of some of these projects is not supposed to happen. We've always known that I have one embedded alternate personality which we now know has a name. And that name is Omega Unit One-Nine-Seven. That's its designated name. We just call him One-Nine-Seven. BR: I'm sorry to hear that, Duncan. I remember that you told us that you were having this progressive problem when we first met you a couple 'a years ago. DO’F: Yeah. It's been progressively, month after month, just getting worse. KC: Oh God. OK. BR: When you say: What we have found... who is “we”? Is this a group of you who have been through the same program, who've been comparing notes? Or is some professional who understands this stuff in a position to help you, or to help you all? Can you

God didn't make Rambo, I made him. I recruited him, I trained him, I commanded him in Vietnam for three years. I'd say that makes him mine. Col. Sam Trautman, Rambo: First Blood, 1982

We had not talked with Duncan O'Finioan at length since our last meeting with him - when we interviewed him with David Corso in January 2007. In this 52 minute audio conversation he tells us about what he has learned about his programmed alternate personalities, how they operate, and what their agenda is; how he is working, with professional support, with a substantial group of people who have been through similar military programs (four generations of them, sourced in a number of different countries including Russia); and his visions of troubled times ahead in the US. Duncan, who has suffered greatly, is a great-hearted giant of a man and it's our privilege to continue to support him to get his message out. We're delighted that he will be speaking at our coming conference in LA in June 2009. Do listen to this interview. Start of conversation: Kerry Cassidy (KC): Good morning. This is Kerry Cassidy and Bill Ryan from Project Camelot, and we're here with Duncan O'Finioan. It's Monday, April 13th, 2009. Hello Duncan, and it's lovely to talk to you.

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tell us a little bit about how it is that you've come to do this research on yourself and your companions? DO’F: To answer your first question -- Both. There is a small group of us who came out of these other projects. One that I'm working with now, I actually helped train. And we were on various assignments together and share a lot of the absolute same memories, and we each have separate memories that we're still working on. We also have a professional psychologist, who is an expert in multiple personality disorder, who has worked with black operations people in the past. He recognizes exactly what's going on and he has been a tremendous help. So I have someone else that's a psychologist that we're working with as well, who is a very close friend of the one lady that I worked with. She's the one who connected us together. It’s getting scary, guys. [laughs] It's like some of these alternate personalities have their own agendas. KC: Isn't it possible that this is a sign of health though, actually, that these walls are breaking down and that you're starting to become aware of... you know, exactly what's going on and that maybe the personalities themselves might...? If you're saying their becoming self aware, are they becoming aware of each other? DO’F: Yes. Exactly right. And it's almost like we're communicating with each other. The only way to tell, now... At one time, years ago, if I switched to One-Nine-Seven, it was obvious. All right? Even when One-Nine-Seven spoke, it was obvious. There was no accent, no nothing. But the eye color would always change. Now, that is basically the only thing this personality cannot hide -- is the changing of the eye color. He is able to switch so completely and so covertly, unless you notice the eye change, you can't tell. BR: Is this understood, Duncan, how it is that the eye changes color? 'Because that's like a micro-version of shape-shifting, isn't it? It implies that there's a DNA structural change going on, happening at a moment's notice, which is what some people say is impossible. Do you understand this at all? DO’F: I do. I do, but I have multiple witnesses who sit there and say: My God, your eyes turned bright green. My eyes are not green [laughs], but when I switch personalities, my eyes turn green. Right now it's a fight of trying to keep the different personalities under control, and to figure out exactly what it is they want. They obviously seem to have their own agendas. To what those agendas are, we just don't know at this time. We don't know if those agendas are good or bad. But we do know that they're not under the control of mil labs. My honest guess -- and I'll say it for the record they want revenge. They want payback. KC: Is this something that the other people that you're with are also experiencing in terms of this other... their other personalities wanting revenge? DO’F: Some are. Yes. Absolutely. KC: Because I... I don't know if this can be on record and you can tell me, 'cause I think you might know Daniel McB. I call him Daniel McB. You know who I'm speaking of? DO’F: Yes. KC: Okay. Is he one of those people? DO’F: Not that I'm aware of. Dan B and I have spoken many times. We've met face to face a few times. I am not aware that he... his alternate personality is manifesting at this time. BR: I heard that there was to have been a radio program that was going... have called you and you weren't available. They couldn't get hold of you. But Dan came on instead, and he was described on the internet as Dan Doe -- like John Doe, but Dan Doe -- and that he told his story on the radio instead. And that was a relatively short time ago, but I haven't listened to that yet. I've got it marked for listening. DO’F: Yeah, I remember that. That wasn't this last time I was in the Islands, it was actually the time before. I've been traveling to St Thomas very frequently here the past few months on business. KC: You're not on St Thomas now, right? DO’F: No. I'm in Kentucky now. KC: Okay. DO’F: Just like what you guys and I were trying to do, which's to set up a phone call while I was down there and, for whatever reason, that neither side could get a call through. They called Dan, and Dan took the show for me that night. I have not listened at all to the program. Ah... quite frankly, I never listen to myself talk. KC: Do you know why you're going to St Thomas? Because, in our interview with you originally, and Corso, St Thomas was where you were recognized. Originally you didn't know why you were recognized there, but it was a fascinating incident -- a number of incidents -- that went on there. It's certainly a military enclave and I'm wondering if you know why it is you're going there? DO’F: I know exactly why. That reason is two-fold. We'll get the simple one out of the way first. It's business. I have a more than partial interest. I own full power of attorney over a section of property down there on Smith Bay, that has rental houses on it, that I'm in charge of. The main reason is the island of St Thomas is One-Nine-Seven's home. That's where he was created. That's where he's from. KC: Where One-Nine-Seven was created? DO’F: Correct. That's where the splitting process took place. KC: I see. So One-Nine-Seven goes back there. Do you think that there is a... maybe there's a scalar frequency being beamed at you to bring out these personalities? Or perhaps programming

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that's going on when you're in St Thomas? Do you have missing time at all when you're there? DO’F: No. Not missing time. As far as the scalar waves or electronic emissions, I would agree with that. What a lot of people don't know is [laughs] just to the west of St Thomas, of course, is Puerto Rico. Puerto Rico has the largest underwater submarine base in the world. Not well known, but it is a fact. People who know me down there, and who also know me here, have made the comment numerous times that when I go to Saint Thomas I'm like a kid on the island. You know, I'm no longer 48, nearly 49 years old. I'm 15-16 again. I'm like a kid, you know? It's like everything just lifts off of me. The island has... It has almost a magical feel. If that makes any sense, and, not just... KC: Do you think that this feel is a result of programming? I mean... islands, theoretically, are nice places. However, is it possible that this is an implant to make you feel that it is, you know, a lovely wonderful place, to attract you back to it numerous times? DO: It is. That's very possible. You know, I've been to Puerto Rico many times. I lived right on the ocean more than once. I've been to some other islands. I don't have the same feeling that I have when I'm in St Thomas. It could be a fact that, you know, I have memories of being a kid -- of being a small boy -- on St Thomas, and, I think it's a... It's a combination of things, but I think it comes back to that is where the traumatic personality split first took place. When I was a child was in St Thomas. Not on St Thomas proper... it was on one of the channel islands that's around. Ah... the building actually still stands, and it's government property, cordoned off. No one's allowed over there, but I'm workin' on it. KC: [laughs] So, are you feeling that if these personalities are starting to come through on their own... is it making you uncomfortable? Are you feeling that there is communication such that you, Duncan that I'm talking to, can calmly say: One-NineSeven, down! if One-Nine-Seven is aggravated, or something like that? DO’F: Whew! That's the 64-thousand-dollar-question, girl. [laughs] KC: [laughs] DO’F: Umm, I was told -- let me preface it with this -- I was told a couple 'a years ago by someone that if I could not reconcile the two personalities then I would probably die. Well, I think that's happening. There's a lot of things going on at the subconscious level that my conscious level isn't aware of until after it's done, once it's completed. I think what has to happen -- what must take place is -- a total merging of these two personalities. Now the other two that have manifested... Geez, I don't know what to do with those. The berserker is frightening. Extremely frightening. The little boy, I can deal with. And... going back to Dan Doe, when he was here and we spent three days together, he wanted to go to the gym where I worked out so he could observe, and he did. And he was witness to my eye color changing. So I shifted from this personality to One-Nine-Seven personality during a heavy lift, and... he saw it! He commented. He said: Dude, your eyes just changed. But to me it was like everything was in slow motion, you know. It's a really weird feeling. KC: You're saying... When he said: Dude, your eye color just changed, he's talking to the Duncan that I'm talking to right now, isn't he? And then... But what's happening is that you've already changed over to One-Nine-Seven, so One-Nine-Seven is receiving the speech, right? So... DO’F: Right. KC: ...how does One-Nine-Seven react to that information? DO’F: You see, the thing they have to keep in mind is that OneNine-Seven hears and sees everything that I did. He's completely aware of everything that's going on. KC: Right. DO’F: What happened that day, I was doing a heavy bench press. And once I got... jacked the weight up, and started to bring it down, he said my eyes changed. And then I pressed it up, reracked the weight and sat up, and my eyes went back to normal. One-Nine-Seven manifested, pressed the weight -- did the lift -and then went back. Because I don't think I could have done that lift by myself. KC: I see. So it was like an adrenaline shift. DO’F: Right. And then he went on to talk about Theta waves and what-not, and I'm totally lost on that. Um... [laughs] I'm trying to research it but I'm not a scientist. KC: But, you are working with, as you say, a psychologist? DO’F: Yes. KC: Does he regress you at all? Does he use that kind of therapy? Where... DO’F: No. KC: ...he would take you back to either incidents in this life, and/or, even a prior life? DO’F: No. We tried that once several years ago -- I think I mentioned that -- and One-Nine-Seven manifested and was going to kill the hypnotherapist. KC: Okay. DO’F: Yes. It most definitely... That needs to be done. But at the same time, I don't think it can be done unless I am... severely secured. KC: Okay. I'm assuming that some of the other people in your group are... You said their other personalities are spontaneously

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coming forward as well, and that vengeance is their agenda? Is that true? DO’F: Yeah. That seems to be, but not the kind of vengeance of Go out and raise bloody hell and mayhem. More to the point, I think, of vengeance of let's bring this out, let's pull these people out of the rabbit-hole and hold 'em up for everybody to see. More of that kind of vengeance because, you know, our alternate personalities are extremely intelligent. Much more intelligent than we are in our born [laughs] personalities. So they look at things more analytical. They break things apart much more than we do. And they're very much aware that to just go out and cause bloody mayhem would serve absolutely no purpose. It would not serve their purpose, for sure. So they want the truth. They want these things exposed. But at the same time that my alternate -- and some of the other peoples’ alternates -- are seeking that type of retribution. We have a... God, the easiest way to explain it... We have a protection-type feeling that we also have a higher purpose. And that is to protect. Protect who? Protect what? We'll find out, you know, we're trying to find out. BR: It sounds, Duncan, as if the One-Nine-Seven personality is more like Jason Bourne in the movie. Would that be a rough analogy? DO’F: Actually, I didn't quite... KC: He doesn't go to movies, so he might not know, Bill, if you remember. DO’F: Jason Bourne. I've never seen the movies. BR: Understood. DO’F: I know about them. I've been told about them, but I've never seen them. KC: Well, in many ways, you are like... BR: My comments were just a... KC: ... Jason Bourne in the sense only that he was an agent who got amnesia, but he would actually kind of click over into that personality. But he didn't know his... the origin. So in many ways he was like you. It's like a fictional version of some of the things you've told us about. DO’F: Yeah. Okay. BR: I was suggesting that Jason Bourne sounded more like OneNine-Seven, actually, 'cause Jason Bourne... like, he'll kill if he has to. He wants to find out what the hell happened to him. He's very analytical. He's very determined. He keeps on going like The Terminator. He's determined to find the truth. He's a much higher-ability person than most of the people around him, and he's very relentless. And... it just sounded a little bit like that personality type that's what you were describing One-Nine-Seven to be. That's why I made the link. DO’F: Okay, yeah. That clicks with me. I can understand that. That has actually been mentioned to me before. And the one distinction that always comes to mind with the differences -- as I was told by several people who watched the movie -- is that he's finally told that he, as an adult, volunteered for the program. The difference between that and us is: we were kids and we didn't volunteer. KC: Absolutely. And it's very... DO’F: That's the difference. KC: ...wonderfully and graphically described by you in our video interview of you which, if anyone's listening to this, I encourage them to go back and watch that, which is really fabulous. But, quite right, you didn't volunteer. And we do remember that. So, Duncan, what're you seeing right now, because you're... I'm not sure. Do you consider yourself a trained remote viewer, or is the psychic part of your ... ah... sort of warrior personality? More something that you've developed, but it's not specifically a remote viewer? DO: I would have to classify myself as a remote viewer of -using the scale of one to ten -- about a one. [laughs] I suck. I'm terrible. I get what is more commonly known as peek psychic impressions. I'll see images. I'll see events happening. Maybe only a brief glimpse of something that I have to sit down and dissect and take it apart, and figure out exactly what it was that I saw. KC: Is One-Nine-Seven... DO’F: Normally... KC: Is One-Nine-Seven a remote viewer and/or psychic? DO’F: Yeah. One-Nine-Seven is extremely psychic. Much more so than I am. BR: Just a couple of days ago I listened to Ed Dames being interviewed on Coast to Coast, and many of the people listening to this would be familiar with Ed Dames' work. And he was asked by George Noory whether he used psychics in his remote viewing program. And Ed Dames said -- and it's really very interesting -- he said: Psychics are not the same as remote viewers. He said psychics are either completely on, or way off, and they can't always tell the difference. They don't use a methodology. Things just come to them spontaneously, and they almost have no control over this. He said remote viewing is a technology that can be taught. And Ed Dames said that he doesn't use psychics in his remote viewing program because their actually harder to train because they keep on going off on their own intuitions without actually using the methodology. I thought that was a very interesting distinction to make, and I would certainly regard you as being psychic, and not someone

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who wants to get involved with very black and white, linear remote viewing protocols. That's not really your style. DO’F: No, it isn't. I've tried remote viewing, you know. I've listened to Ed off and on for a few years. Ah... I have my own opinions about [laughs] Ed Dames, but, what he said is essentially correct. But I will say, however, that a lot of psychics, what they see is absolutely spot-on. Where they make the mistake is trying to put a date to it, or an exact location. Putting a date on a vision is something that's damn near impossible. Unless you see the date -you happen to see a newspaper or something of that nature with the date on it -- it's almost impossible. KC: Well, I took a class from Ed Dames, and I have to say that I have studied remote viewing on and off besides that, and I have to say that he also stresses that even remote viewers have a very hard time finding dates for anything. So it's actually difficult, regardless of what method you use. But I also know that that's not completely true. Ed Dames does use psychics, and as a matter of fact, Ingo [ed. note: Ingo Swan] was a very well-developed psychic who, you know, he's in essence, you might say, the father of remote viewing. And many remote viewers are natural psychics and they... Pat Price was a natural psychic. He was one of the first remote viewers. Joseph McMoneagle is a natural psychic. I mean, the best remote viewers are often natural psychics as well. So what he's doing... a certain amount of dissembling there, I would say. DO’F: I can put my side of it together in a nice little nutshell. I'm a terrible remote viewer, but I do receive tremendous amount of psychic impressions. I do get glimpses of things, like on a daily basis, and I will follow them. I'll turn left when I normally turn right, that kind of thing. If I shake hands with someone, I'll get an impression of what's really in their mind. I don't hear their thoughts. I don't read minds. I get impressions. I get pictures. I get what I call "picting". Like when we did that first interview... remember when I asked you, I said: Are you thirsty and you said: Yes. When I looked at you, I got a flash -- an image -- of a Pepsi. Now, it was my interpretation that, you know, what I interpreted it be is, that you were thirsty. KC: Right. And actually there’s where the psychic part can break down because I don’t drink Pepsi, so, what you did was transpose it into what you drink. I totally get that and I do remember that incident, which, you know... It’s obvious that you are psychic when one meets you, and sort of talks with you, and so on. And with the Celtic and the Native American backgrounds -- those two put together -- obviously you were chosen, in part, for those... some of those qualities. Right? DO’F: Yes we were. But however, I will say, in 1966 when I was taken in... You know, a lot more memories have bubbled up to the surface since we did that interview. And I do remember children from various ethnic origins. We all -- all of us -- weren’t Native American and Celtic mixed. But we were the predominant species. KC: Understand. Can you tell us more about maybe some incidents or some realizations that have come to you that might be interesting for the listeners here? DO: Well I think the biggest realization that I've had to come to terms with and to deal with is that my father turned me over to this project. It was, ah... [emotional pause] quite unnerving to find out -- on the island of Saint Thomas, by the way -- that my father was a CIA asset, an agent, and that he basically gave the OK for me to be taken in. He took me to have the test administered, and I obviously passed the test, and we've had some thoughts on that, that I'll get into in just a moment. When he... He may not have been able to have said No. However, I do hold the grudge that, as I became older, he could have talked to me about it, but he chose not to. That's one of the things. Let me get this while it's fresh in my mind. Remember the puzzle... The picture on the puzzle, that I had to put together, was the double helix, the DNA molecule. Yeah, I put the piece together. However, there is a running theory that some of us have that it wasn't so much that we got the puzzle together correctly, but that we were able to pick up the psychic impressions from the test administrator. KC: On how to do so? DO’F: Correct. KC: Interesting. DO’F: That's a running theory that we have right now. KC: OK. Very interesting. So that means that, you know, your psychic ability was a very big part of why you were selected, is what you're saying? DO’F: Right. And I do remember vividly most of the other kids were spending more time laughing, talking, playing with each other, while I was totally focused and concentrating on what I was doing. That adds a little more credence to the fact that the lady -- who we now know’s name is Elsa -- was probably broadcasting some kind of thought image to see who could pick it up. That was the... actually the real test. BR: That makes sense, Duncan, because I remember very clearly when you did your interview a couple of years ago, although there were so many things to talk about and think about I didn't pick it up with you at the time, but I remember thinking: Well, okay, there's a kid solving a puzzle here. And I remember you reporting that this woman said: Hey, we've got one -- or words to that effect. DO’F: Correct. BR: But I remember thinking: Well, what's so special about a kid solving a puzzle? You know, kids solve puzzles all the time. DO’F: Correct.

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BR: But you're saying that, actually, it was quite a simple puzzle but what she was actually doing, she was directing you and you were following her directions, andthat's how she knew that she'd got one. DO’F: Right. Because while I was doing the puzzle she was standing behind me. By this time she had... She was totally ignoring the other kids. She was standing behind me, focusing on me. Also, I remember my mother was focusing on me as well. Now, my mother was very psychic as well, 'cause she was fullblooded Cherokee. And she would have dreams, visions, hints -like 90 percent of them would turn out to be true. My father's grandfather was supposed to have been a Celtic Druid. So when you put those two bloodlines together, I guess, they got what they were looking for. KC: Yes. Very interesting. So what is your psychic intuition telling you nowadays about the current times, what we're going through here in the United States, as well as the possible future? DO’F: Get ready to run [laughing]. It's going to get bad. That has been there for some time, and it hasn't left. Whew... It's going to get nasty. KC: Can you describe it a little more specifically? I know you live in the middle of the country. Are you planning to stay there? You once told us the best thing to do during these times was to be mobile. Do you still feel that way? DO’F: I do. Be prepared to be mobile. What I have been seeing are cities and towns in total darkness, on fire, with people screaming. Some people just... have just laid down in the street and just refused to get up. Um... some of them are very frightened, and in the darkness and the smoke there is something that is coming through. It's very bad -- very evil -- but I can't see what it is. This isn't any one particular city or town. This is pretty much going to be everywhere. BR: I presume that you haven't got a time on this? DO’F: A date? No. Only an impression. The impression is more intense now than it was the last we spoke. That it's... It's getting closer. You know, I wish I could just say: Okay, on this date, this is what's going to happen, but I can't. Also, there's going to be a major political uprising in this country. This country, politically, is going to split right down the seams -- it's going to tear itself in half -- and I think that will happen within the next two years. Everybody... One of the things that a lot of people ask me about is 2012. Yeah, we are headed towards a culmination of events. I will not venture out and say that it will happen exactly on 2012. The reason I say that is due to the differences in calendars. No one can tell me exactly what today is. They can tell me what today is with the Julian calendar, an Aztec calendar, a Chinese calendar. But no one can actually tell me what today actually is. So whatever's coming may be 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014 [laughs] and on it goes. But it is coming. KC: Are other people that you're, you know... You're sort of in a group now that you're talking about. Maybe you're in contact with others that are like yourself. Are they also seeing things in the future? Do you compare notes at all? DO’F: We do. Some of us speak almost on a daily basis. One of the strongest psychics that I've ever known in my life has given more than one warning against... I've never known her to be wrong. She said, and I'll quote her: An evil wind does blow, and it's not going to stop. She's flat told me: Get ready. I can't see what it is. I don't know what it is, but it's comin' and it's almost here. KC: Do you feel like, possibly, your personality One-NineSeven could have been created in part to deal with those times in some form or fashion? DO’F: [laughs] That's one of the things that we've been discussing. Ah... Yeah. We do. You know, like I've said, these people who created us were evil geniuses. There's no doubt about that. But even a genius can be wrong. There are things that have transpired with these alternate personalities that, we believe, where completely unforeseen by the creators. They've unleashed a Pandora's Box. When they opened us up and let us out of Pandora's Box we were used for some very explicit evil deeds. There's no doubt about that, and we're learning to deal with that. But, if everyone remembers the story of Pandora's Box, the last thing to exit the box was hope. So that's what we're putting together with the skills that we were ingrained with, trained and taught, is hope. To try to turn it around, do a complete 180, and use what we can to help. We'll just see how successful we are. BR: The group that you're working with... Because of the emails that we get about this subject, people having told us that they watched your interview, and I remember one of the words that somebody said that -- it was really quite chilling -- they said that they felt that you were telling their story on their behalf. We've had several messages like that. You must get more than we do. How many people are there out there who've been through your program, and you've shared your experiences, who have contacted you over the last couple of years? What's the order of magnitude? Is it hundreds? How many people are there? DO’F: I have been contacted by many. I would say... Contacted personally? Close to a hundred. Some of these people are in the group that we formed. Essentially what I am, I'm the mouth-piece for the group, and I personally think they should've chosen someone else. I have a tendency to go overboard occasionally. I do have a temper, even in this personality. In some interviews I have not been so kind with some callers. People would come in with really overboard, off the wall narcissistic questions [laughs] and I haven't been really kind. But it's a job that I've been stuck with and I will continue to do the best I can do. To expand on your question... Oh, I... My project with 1966 -- I am what is known as "second generation". I was contacted by someone who was in a very, very similar project in the 1950s. He would have been first generation. One of the people in our group was right after me. She was third generation. Another person in our group was about fifteen years later. That person's fourth

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generation. So you see the progression. It hasn't stopped. It continues. BR: Yeah. And the implication, Duncan, is that if you've been contacted, let's say, by the best part of a hundred people, it doesn't take much for you and I to figure out that there must be thousands out there. DO’F: I would have to say yes. As a matter of fact, Dan -- who we discussed earlier -- has estimated, from information that he has received from one of his "CIA contacts" , there's an estimated one million of us in one form or another. Not necessarily as trained, or put through what we have gone through, but a million like us. In like ways. BR: I assume that these, then, are the products of the experimental technologies of different countries, not just the United States. Is that correct? DO’F: That is correct. These experiments and projects are not just home to the U.S. No, they've been worldwide. As a matter of fact I was contacted by someone in Russia who said that he was part of a very like project there. KC: Isn't it true, though -- and obviously Daniel should speak for himself here -- but my understanding is that he feels that he was genetically engineered, in part, to be... In other words, it wasn't just training. There was actually genetic engineering that went on even, I guess, possibly before birth. Is that your understanding? DO’F: It is. It is. We've discussed that. There's also been talk that the genetic engineering part started even in the first generation. As far as I'm concerned, which is actually the only one that I can truly speak for in this matter, I've been augmented. That much I know. My adrenal glands are much larger than normal. My bone density and mass is much more than normal. That's why I've never had a [laughs] major broken bone before. KC: So, in other words, your mother, when she conceived you, could have participated -- maybe unknowingly -- in some kind of genetic program. DO’F: I'll tell you what one of our remote viewers said, and I think since you've studied remote viewing, you probably know. Remote viewing is not only in the future and the present, it can also go backwards. They saw my mother in a hospital, the egg was removed, was injected and then re-implanted. So if that is true -- and I'm preferencing -- that if that is true, then yes, definitely, I was genetically altered. KC: Yeah. I think that, in a certain sense... Now again, I don’t know, would you consider yourself a hybrid? DO’F: I’ve given that a tremendous amount of thought and, with what I know now, even more so than when we did the first interview, I would have to say yes. Now, a hybrid to what? [Kerry laughs] that’s the question. KC: Right. Well, my understanding is... I mean, all of humanity is a hybrid in one form or another because we’ve been through so many different genetic engineerings, if you will. But you specifically, in a group of you, you’re not unlike Dan Sherman, who you... I don’t know if you ever saw his interview that we did with him. He was specifically engineered -- genetically engineered. He has his own evidence of that with his mother. But he was specifically engineered to communicate with ETs on a psychic and intuitive level. DO’F: You know, I’ve been asked that question a lot: Where do I fit in with ETs and the visitors and what-not? I’m up front. I don’t know. KC: Mm hm. DO’F: I have no memory of ever being on an alien craft, or being face to face with one, or anything like that. And I’ve said it publicly before. Do I believe in extraterrestrial life? Yes. I do. I mean, my god, go out on a clear night and take a look! [laughter] I mean, look up! I mean, to say that this little ball of rock floating around Sol is the only place with life on it -- or intelligent life -in this vastness. That’s just not logical. KC: When you’re in St Thomas, are you aware of... As you said, you are aware of certain, maybe, directional scalar influences possibly being aimed at you. I know that we were interviewing you with Corso and there was a very clear pulse that hit the stereo when it was turned off when we were... actually during the interview. When you’re on St Thomas are you seeing, number one, maybe an unusual amount of craft in the sky and/or activity? Are you just aware of activity there that might be unusual or different than, possibly, what you find around you when you’re in the U.S.? DO’F: Yeah, actually, that’s a good question. Two things. It seems like... the time the plane lands till the plane takes off, I have a headache. It’s not a migraine. It’s nothing I need to take a break from. But it’s right there. It’s right in the center of my forehead the whole entire time I’m on island. The only other thing is: someone made a comment that there’s always a very large Coast Guard ship in dock when I’m there [laughs] with some real big, high-gain antennas on it. [Kerry laughs] And it’s never there, unless I’m there. KC: Interesting. Are you aware of any underground activity there? DO’F: Well, probably so. A lot of people may not know about the island of St Thomas. It’s a mountain island. The property that I have is on the top of the second highest mountain there. You go up on top and you can see the entire island. So I would have to say: Probably so. There’s probably underwater connecting tunnels to some of the channel islands that dot that whole area. I’ll send you guys some pictures and you’ll see what I’m talkin' about. KC: Well if there’s a submarine... You said the largest submarine base in the world is in between there and Puerto Rico? DO’F: No. It’s actually off the coast of Puerto Rico. KC: Okay. DO’F: It’s off the northern coast.

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BR: I wondered, because you said you had a property there on Saint Thomas, if this was one of your plan B's in case anything gets too rough in America, then you’ve got somewhere to go if you have to leave the mainland. I wondered if you were thinking that far ahead. DO’F: Oh, I have, I have. It’s funny. I have more friends on St Thomas than I do in the States, actually. My attorney’s on St Thomas. I actually have some relatives on St Thomas. There are records of my family doing land transactions on that island dating back to the 1780s. If I had not seen those with my own eyes I would not have believed it. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. It’s 1840s. The 1780s is when they... Captain Fanning, an ancestor of mine, founded the Fanning Island, which is on the other side of the world. He was a pirate, okay? [laughter] He was about as scandalous as he could be. [laughs] KC: Very interesting. Yeah. Actually, if you have family records on St Thomas, it might also explain how they might have found you, assuming that you were not genetically implanted. Because it seems like St Thomas is some kind of a base. DO’F: Oh, definitely. Most definitely. St Thomas and St Croix. St Croix is also a refueling base, as well as a large Air Force contingent. Puerto Rico has a... [laughs] one of the largest military presence per capita than any other place on the mainland USA. They have a Naval base, Air base, Army base, Marine base. You name it, they’ve got a base there. KC: Right. Incredible. BR: We’ve had a number of people who’ve written to us, having seen your first video when you described how were in the MRI machine, and it started to pick up this implant that was in your head and the thing caught fire. A number of people have said to us: Hey, wait a minute. An MRI machine doesn’t catch fire. Did he really mean an MRI machine? Or is this a different kind of machine that I don’t know about? Is there any clarification that you can offer on that? DO’F: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. It wasn’t the actual machine, it was the control panels. What I was told later on after that, is that there was feedback. If I’m understanding this correctly, an MRI machine acts just a little like radar when it reads the image back, and that’s what happened. It wasn’t exactly the machine itself, if that makes any sense. BR: That clarifies things a lot, actually, for the more technicallyminded people out there. Because an MRI machine is a Magnetic Resonance Imager. It works on magnetic resonance. DO’F: Right. BR: If it was resonating magnetically with something, then I could imagine some kind of a resonance pulse would set up, that actually would create problems. DO’F: Yeah. What happened is, there were no problems. When they pushed me back into the tunnel there was no problem. They started talking to me... no problem. Then as soon as that thing started to spin and make the sound, when the magnetic waves begin to start, it was like someone drove a hot spike through my skull. That’s when I started seeing all the images, all the memories, all the blood, the gut, the mayhem... the whole gauntlet, and I came out absolutely screaming. I could smell the smoke. The techs and the nurses were trying to get hold of me, get a handle on me and calm me down which, I was told, was extremely hard to do [laughs] ’cause I was... It was like somebody on a... having a total breakdown. I remember screaming. BR: That sounds like one of the kind of experiences that could have triggered one of your other personalities at that time. DO’F: Very true. Very true. BR: Okay. Thanks for clarifying that, Duncan. I’ve got a final question. How do you see, or how would you like to see, your own life playing out in the next few years? What do you see ahead of you? Because you’re here as a Warrior, not just for the military, but for the human race and representing this bunch of people who want you to be their spokesman, and their leader, and their representative. And you’ve played a hero for all here. So you’re fighting a fight, but not in the way that the military intended you to. How do you see things playing out in the next few years for yourself? DO: What I’d like to see, and what I have seen, is two entirely different things. What I would like to see is some admissions by some governments that these operations took place, are taking place and they stop -- and just have some peace and watch the kids grow up -- two acres, the lawn and have a little woodworking shop or something. That’s what I would like. But that’s not what I’ll ever have. What I have seen is myself and others of the group leading groups of people to safety. That’s what I’ve seen. That’s also what some of the other people in the group have seen. ‘Cause it’s going to get so hot. KC: Exactly. I think the times are coming, right? DO’F: Definitely. And they’re coming a lot faster than some people realize. When they start it’s going to be like a domino effect, you know... KC: Exactly. DO’F: ...once the precursor hits, and the precursor’s going to be a total split in the political system in this country. That’s going to happen. And once that happens... [sighs] all bets are off. It’s going to be crazy. KC: Yeah. I think... I’ve seen one version of that myself. So... Okay. Thank you, Duncan. That’s rather a sobering ending for this brief chat we’ve been having with you. But I do appreciate the vision. It’s quite interesting. We’re looking forward to having you at our conference. It’s very exciting to know that you’re going to speak to the people. That’s just going to be wonderful. Thank you very much for connecting with us here. This is a rare treat for us to be able to really connect with you, and then at the

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same time actually be able to record it so that we can share it with others. DO’F: Well I appreciate it. Thank you two guys very much. BR: This is a very good one, Duncan. You’re a star. Thank you so much for spending your time here. DO’F: No problem, guys. Anything for you guys. BR: God bless you, and you take care of yourself and take care of anybody else you can. DO’F: You do as well, bud.

Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy
support@projectcamelot.org

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Project Camelot: Dr. Bill Deagle - Telephone Interview Transcript
29 April 2009
recombinant viral biologists that’ve actually worked on this project, and he has all the connecting dots. It fits in with the documentation which I received from scientists and doctors in March of 1997 that was smuggled out of the Basel Headquarters of the World Health Organization. They were going to resurrect with gene fragments the 1918 swine human flu recombinant, and then convert it with some Avian genes, put it into Asia and then later release a bridge virus, which is what this virus is. There are two strains in Mexico City. One that’s making people very sick and the other one that’s actually killing people. So, we won’t know for a couple of weeks, but if it starts to show selective deaths of only Hispanic people in America, then we know -- like AIDS, which is 16 times more likely to kill blacks than to kill whites -- that it is a race specific bioweapon. There are six companies producing vaccine for the World Health Organization and the international community. Pfizer Pharmaceutical, Sanofi Pasteur, Baxter Laboratories that actually had this accident in 18 different labs in four countries, and shut down the biotest lab in the Czech Republic. Their phone is off the hook. Nobody’s answering the phone. We’ve been having our people -- Alexander Jones, an NIH whistleblower -- calling them daily and they are now not only not returning calls, either Baxter or Biotest in the Czech Republic, their phone is disconnected. But the Sanofi was the one where the U.S. government contracted for 382 million plus doses of this binary vaccine. Their branch plant in Beijing shipped it four-and-a-half to five months ago, and it is now shipped to major military U.S. bases. They’ve already been administering it for the past four months to our troops; the first phase of this binary vaccine. And they say the second phase will be “antigenically more accurate” for the “Avian Flu.” It’s an Avian flu vaccine. Research about it... KC: But you can’t vaccinate against it; is my understanding. The RNA vaccine where they’ve given the first phase, as long ago as three or four months ago, to our troops. And they’ve already announced earlier this year that they are going to give it to all the county sheriffs and their families. And the second phase, when they “have an antigenically more accurate second phase vaccine.” KC: I’m sorry, I’m not understanding you. Are you saying that this virus is part of something that has been given to our troops as a vaccine? BD: Well, no. It’s a separate thing. The one given to our troops is a first phase, called an RNA vaccine, by Sanofi Pasteur. What Dr. Horowitz is showing in his video clip (which you may want to talk to him) -- and I agree it’s the CDC World Health Organization -- there’s direct complicity with them and British BD: Right, but what they’re doing is they’re saying they’re doing it. And they’ve given an RNA vaccine they say will prime them so they will have an immune response within a week rather than two to three weeks. This latest thing that Novavax is working on is a similar virus in which they actually recombined the H1N1 swine flu from 1918, that was resurrected by Dr. Taugenberger -- [ed. note: Dr. Jeffery Taugenberger] -- at the CDC, with the H5N1 lethal strains and human viruses, and they actually created vaccines which they were playing around with. Novavax, and what Dr. Horowitz has stated and it’s probably correct, is that this company’s virus is virtually identical to the one which has been released in Mexico City.

Kerry Cassidy (KC): Hi, this is Kerry Cassidy and Bill Ryan from Project Camelot. It's April 29th, a Wednesday, and we're here with Dr. Bill Deagle. We're very happy to be talking to you Bill. We are trying to get an update on what’s going on with the virus. I don’t know if it’s really officially a pandemic. Maybe you can explain that to us; when something becomes a pandemic versus just some kind of virus going around. Bill Deagle (BD): Yes, If you actually stick to the six phases of the World Health Organization Categorization, it’s actually in Phase Five of a pandemic right now. Phase Six is the out-ofcontrol, top level of it. And that’s by definition. It means it’s rapidly spreading to other continents, it’s having close-to-close human-to-human contact and it is causing deaths. Now there’s probably more than one strain circulating. One of the concerns that I have is that this virus... I agree with Dr. Len Horowitz (I just saw his video clip today). All the evidence indicates that it was a CDC World Health Organization virus. They were working with a company called Novavax, but there's actually six companies making these vaccines, including Sanofi Pasteur, that has 382 million doses of a dual RNA biphasic vaccine.

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So they probably sprayed it over Mexico City because when you have a weakened population with a lot of biotoxins in the environment it makes it easier for them to become ill. So, yeah, this is absolutely manmade. I don’t call it a swine flu because it’s not. With swine flu 20 percent of all veterinarians in Ohio, according to research, are positive for antibodies to swine virus and they don’t get sick or die. KC: I’m sorry, I really have to get back to the troops. What is it they’re giving our troops and what is going to be the result of what they’re giving our troops? BD: What they’re doing is inserting what’s called H5N1 RNA. In other words, they’re inserting some RNA which actually stays in their body and modifies the genetics of the troops so that their immune systems will respond more quickly when they give them the second phase of this vaccine that is called a binary or second phase vaccine. KC: When you say: their immune systems will respond more quickly, you’re saying that... BD: That’s their theory. That’s what they’re saying. KC: ...in theory, they will fight off the disease faster? BD: That’s what they are saying. KC: Because there is no real reason, in my mind, why they would want our troops to die of a virus. BD: Well, I would think that there is actually a very good reason they would want our troops to die. KC: Okay. Other than in battle? Because this is what they use them for. BD: No. They want our troops to die so they can bring in foreign troops on American soil because they will shoot at American citizens and disarm them. American troops won’t. That’s already been established. So they want our troops sick and they want our troops dead. KC: Okay, that’s quite a statement. BD: Yeah, it is. It’s true. I have that from inside sources, too, and they’re very concerned inside the military. The county sheriffs were announced -- we had whistleblowers from several states including Arizona and Arkansas, and other states that we had -- that they were... Also, the Department of Homeland Security, as well as the state health departments in states across the United States, have been planning to vaccine all the county sheriffs and their families with the same vaccine. But, as far as I know, I haven’t had my whistleblowers tell me they’ve actually done it yet. KC: Okay. Again, why would they vaccinate? If you say the vaccine is actually preparing them... I’m getting the impression that you’re telling us that it’s preparing them for the next wave of this virus. BD: Well, the one that they‘re... KC: It’s not going to protect them; it is going to kill them. So again, why would they want to kill... BD: We don’t know. All we know is, number one: it may give them a false sense of protection, at the very least. Number two: this is totally experimental. There’s no research to show that you can make a binary vaccine and you can prime someone with this RNA so that when they get a second phase that’s antigenically correct... The thing is, the virus is going to come up with multiple sub-strains, and it’s extremely unlikely that they can create one quick enough. The fastest you can use it, if you use cell culture, is probably 60 days minimum. If you use cell culture and egg membrane, you can use 6 months, at least. And the virus changes so quickly that it wouldn’t be genetically correct, and number two, I don’t believe the vaccines work anyway. In fact, the research has shown that whose who received the vaccine to the swine virus in 1918 were the ones that died. They depress Sermion [sp?] systems; they increase the risk of new recombinants forming. Like they were giving the swine vaccine in Mexico City until the weekend when the WHO finally reported -- after me and many others were saying they shouldn’t be vaccinating -- they actually discontinued the program. But that would actually insert new DNA, new viral material so you could actually form recombinants, or new viruses, that would swap DNA and create new viral strains that could be more lethal and spread more quickly. In Mexico City and other areas, and by the way this is spreading very rapidly. It is almost certain there's a strain that causes a bad flu and there is a strain that causes a bad flu that kills. It causes a cytokine storm. KC: But my understanding is that people in the U.S. are not dying from this. BD: Right. My guess is the strain that got into the U.S. is a very bad flu but it is not the strain yet. But the fact is... Here’s what happened: in H5N1 -- and I had the documents 12 years ago -the primary reason, the number one reason when I started radio broadcasting fulltime four years ago plus was to warn people of this because I had the documents; I was given the information to warn people that this is coming. This is one of the primary vehicles that the globalists want to use to quell any resistance to the new financial order that’s coming; to quell resistance to revolution in Mexico and the United States when the economy collapses and they switch to a new financial order worldwide. They are bringing in a Hate Crimes Bill today: HR1913. This is the 29th, which is to be voted on, and it is the most noxious hatecrime bill which will affect everyone of every group, either skin color, or religion or lack of religion or whatever. It’ll affect everybody. This will allow them to have totalitarian control and selective prosecution of anyone who speaks of against any issue that they don’t like you to talk about.

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Bill Ryan (BR): Hello, Dr. Bill, it is good to be talking to you. BD: Yeah, it is good to talk to you again, Bill. BR: You’re in the excellent position to understand the controller’s thinking. If you were one of their strategists, what do you think their strategic plan is, of which this may be a very early stage. BD: What they have done is release a bridge virus. [he spells] br-i-d-g-e. This bridges and spreads very quickly between humans. The earlier strain that’s in the United States is a bad flu but it isn’t lethal. The second strain which is in Mexico City is killing people at a relatively rapid rate; we’re going to guess somewhere at around eight to ten percent case fatality rate, which is pretty high, to go four times higher than the 1918 swine flu pandemic, which is a swine-human recombinant. I went over the DNA letters 3 years ago with Henry L. Niman, head of Recombinomics, that has more patents than any other Ph.D. virologist in history on recombination, which is how viruses change; they swap DNA. I think they have already pulled the trigger. The hammer has fallen and it will come in waves that could occur over months, or years, or even more than a decade. So if we get over this, as Napolitano has stated as the Head of Homeland Security, former governor of Arizona, we are almost certainly looking at a wave. Whether it’s six weeks or three months or six months, that is going to have a much higher case fatality rate and it’s shown already that they’re doing nothing and plan to do nothing to stop the virus from moving. Now they could do things like having an antiviral hepa filter in every aircraft, tracking every person that flies or crosses a border for at least ten to twelve days; making sure they don’t have symptoms, tracking all their contacts. They could give everybody antipathogenics, actually build their immune system like Super Silver or NutriDine and the element allicin, which if you just take a little bit of it, it prevents you from getting a primary infection. They could issue true nanoparticle masks -- and the best is the Nano Mask -- or a NIOSH N100 mask, and if you are in an area you probably also need an eye shield because you can get it sprayed in your eyes. If you use natural good hygiene practices, really, you could stop this cold. The fact is the government is doing nothing to stop it. They are not doing anything to stop commerce or truckers coming in from Mexico or airline flights. They are not doing anything to track anybody. I brought these issues up in 2002 with the FBI and the CDC director for bioterrorism, along with Dr. Jay Reddington, Infectious Disease Director at the University of Colorado, because I was the point man under Dr. John Hughes of Rocky Mountain OccMed. We worked on Operation TOPOFF and Dark Winter in the late ’90s doing bioweapons war simulations. The fact is the government is doing everything to make sure that if this does acquire new genetics and new sub-strains emergent that enter the United States and other countries, they’re going to declare martial law. They have now -- and I have this from my military contacts, trained over 50,000 returning U.S. troops -there are special crack troops now upgraded to handle, in these new Chem-Bio suits, the administration of drugs and/or vaccines As of two weeks ago they had 50,000 already trained and ready to roll. This is before this, what I call the lab flu, North American lab flu. I’m not going to call this swine flu because there are genes from the Avian flu; the new Avian flu. It has genes from Swine, from Human and Asian flu; genes from three continents, so this is not... It’s coming from the wrong place; it always emerges from Asia. So this is a laboratory flu that almost certainly was released in Mexico City on purpose. The virus is basically going to acquire new genetics. It also grows well in birds and animals, like pigs and probably cattle. It’s going to allow the jumping of those Avian genes, H5N1, that are killing millions of birds on every continent. I have reports from game wardens in British Columbia, Washington state and Oregon, and other places across the US and Canada that millions of birds are dying; like the Shearwater Gulls are dying. The Canadian geese are returning and their chicks are dying of this strange virus, which we are pretty certain is the H5N1 Avian flu, so there is already a pandemic among birds. But until a few months ago it couldn’t grow in less than 106 degrees [Fahrenheit] because of the PB2 gene. Well, in the wild, we discovered that the PB2 gene change is present in some places in Asia. But the PB2 gene change is already in the H1N1 virus. This new lab virus has that PB2 that allows it to grow in human nasal mucous areas, and it also has a full receptor binding domain so that it can attach to human cells very efficiently. And if it acquires the H gene, which is the 6 polybasic amino acids, it can grow on brain and other tissues. The other changes, including the deletion on the NS1, is going to allow it to completely bypass the immune system. So it’s going to be able to transfer the lethality from the H5N1, that is already killing millions of birds, into humans and possibly other animals, etcetera. So that’s going to come in waves. It could occur over a period of two months or even one wave after another. In 1918 the first wave was relatively mild flu that killed very few people. It was more like a serious typical flu. And when it came back in the late summer and early fall -- the second wave -- it started killing people very, very seriously with a case fatality rate between twoand-a-half to five percent. We don’t have all the statistics in now but we are guessing that the current case fatality for the more lethal strain in Mexico is probably around ten percent, which is pretty high. My guess is that, as it acquires new genes, that case fatality rate will rise up toward 20 to 30 percent. The biggest danger is that, because of fear, transportation, travel, and infrastructure -- including distribution of food and goods -will stop or shut down significantly. That’s where the government will declare martial law and close the borders, and try to control transportation, so food and other materials are still being shipped to the big cities. Otherwise, the chaos will actually cause more problems. In fact, we did a computer simulation in Denver back in the ’90s and we estimated if there was a total at gunpoint. And also civil detention camps are now being set up as quarantine camps all across the United States.

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shutdown of infrastructure caused by the fear of a pandemic it would kill more people than the actual virus. BR: In a sense, Dr. Bill, it doesn’t really matter what the lethality is, or even if there really is an outbreak at all, if enough people believe there is and the media is used in the way that we know that it can be used. BD: Yes. BR: Actually, that’s all they need to do. KC: Then what we’re talking about here is people actually staying in observer mode and taking a step back. What I understand is: normal flu kills 30,000 to 50,000 people a year in the United States. BD: That statistic is actually one that they always throw out and it is actually based on an estimate. It’s not a real number and it is not based on actual facts. The flu itself, basically, unless you’re in a debilitated state, usually doesn’t cause a problem. The difference with the 1918 flu is that it strikes the young and healthy because it bypasses the body’s immune system until it overwhelms the body. You can incubate it for 8 days and people don’t even know. You’re not even sneezing or coughing, but you’re touching your face or other body parts and passing it to other people. [Then you can] spike a fever and have a seizure and in 45 minutes be dead. KC: Okay, I understand this. You’re a doctor, Dr. Bill. If we could talk about how they can prevent this? BD: Well the first thing they need to think of is, number one, this is just a bug. Like any bug. In fact, it’s probably no more transmissible than the regular flu. The First Line Of Defense Kit I put together has the Nutridefense which blocks the virus that attaches to the cells with a special magnesium salt of ECGC catagens, and it has monolauren that blocks viruses so that they cannot replicate. The Nutrimmune boosts the natural killer cells to fight all pathogens. It has the Defense Wipes. It has monolauren and lauric acid and nisin to shift all viruses and all bacterial cell walls, but it is totally biodegradable so it won’t destroy the environment. And we have the NanoMasks; and we have a good supply of those at the moment although it is going quickly. The reason I mention this is that people can try to get other things. If they can’t get this, they want to get at least a NIOSH N100 mask. If they use things that are antibacterial off the shelf of, say Wal-Mart, they’re not going to work because they are not anti-viral. They’re antibacterials and they are fairly mild, like Purell Soap. You want to prevent a primary infection so something as simple as our silver salt, called Super Silver, is the only one with a U.S. patent. The government and homeland security, for the past four years, have been buying literally container loads of this. And the reason is they know this works because we have tested it in labs in Brazil and overseas, and in the United States. It will kill a high pathogen like Avian flu. We’ve done actual tests in lab animals. We know it will prevent primary infection, so as simple as a teaspoon three times a day of the Super Silver will do that. It is the same with our medical grade allicin and our very unique NutriDine. Other things people take, like they say: Well I’m going to take Oregano, or I’m going to... Those will help a little but there is no evidence that they are anywhere near in the class of the things that we’re talking about. You do not want to get a primary infection. If you get a primary infection with these organisms it’s very, very dangerous because it is one of the higher pathogenic strains. There is no warning before you are going to hit a crisis, say a week or ten days after you get infected. KC: Okay, my understanding is that colloidal silver is not the same thing as the type of silver you are supposed to be using. BC: Well, colloidal... Yeah, this is a hundred times stronger. Colloidal silver is a large particle and different sized particles. The Super Silver is a silver salt so it doesn’t bio-accumulate in the body. It is a uniform particle size which is tuned to a scalar frequency like Tesla to 910 terahertz, so it shatters the bonds of all pathogens. It has a tetra silver oxygen wrap on the molecule so that it actually creates a scalar signal. It has a capacity to penetrate through biofilms so it can kill at a distance. It doesn’t even need to get in direct contact with the pathogens. So it’s very unique. It has three patents on the technology that no other silver, including OxySilver, Mild Silver Protein, any other silver in the world. Now I had Dr. Gordon Peterson on, he’s work with the Homeland Security on a program called AeroClave, and they haven’t... I haven’t talked to him in about a month and a half. I don’t know if they signed a contract but he has actually worked with Homeland Security. AeroClave will clear any international aircraft, like a Boeing 767, in 45 seconds of all pathogens, resistant TB, viruses, bacteria, by putting an aerosol into the aircraft and quickly vacuuming it out of the aircraft. It will kill all pathogens in 45 seconds. KC: Okay, do they use it? BD: They can’t. I don’t know if they have. He has already done presentations with them. An independent company that he worked with developed it for the airline industry and the government. This is the only silver that has been tested to do this. No other one. The government has the information; they have the research and we have the tests. Now if people were to get one thing that’s compact and easy to carry, the one I would recommend is our NutriDine which is diatomic. It’s very unique. It is a formula that was conceived and prophesied by Edgar Cayce. So we have the NutriDine. It will quell all known pathogens. We have a clinic in India that is using this for the Untouchables that can’t get any healthcare there, and we’re using it to put AIDS into remission and to treat topical and internal cancers. It’ll kill all known pathogens and parasites. The NutriDine is so powerful that as little as ten drops, three times a day, will kill all known pathogens; taken orally.

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KC: Are you familiar with MMS? [ed. note: Miracle Mineral Supplement] BD: MMS is a chlorine dioxide and it has been used for many years to kill pathogens. The problem is: any chlorinated molecule will attach to amide groups of amino acids so as well as an antipathogenic it also displaces iodine from the mitochondria so can cause problems with toxicity, so I wouldn’t recommend MMS. It will clear pathogens, just like antibiotics will. I think it's a very good antipathogenic but it has toxicity because it’s going to attach to... it’s going to release chlorine. Chlorine will attach to amide groups of amino acids and other molecules. It will form chloramines and therefore I believe it has toxicity. There is no need for that. The only safe halide is iodine in the body. Any other halide, which includes fluoride, bromide or chloride, or chlorine molecules, have toxicity. BR: I had the pleasure of meeting personally with Jim Humble a few months ago, and he’s the first to admit that he’s not a microbiologist or a medical doctor. If one was pretty seriously sick, MMS might not be a bad option. BD: If you can only mix this together and that is the only thing you have, absolutely, use it. For example, I am shipping at my own expense to some of these other companies, to our missionaries overseas, case lots of NutriDine. I’m doing that at my own expense so that they have it. They already have cases. We’re able to cure intracerebral malaria, parasites, worms; we kill everything. It sterilizes the water. So I would say, yeah, if you have no choice, by all means use MMS, but if you do have a choice... because if you do it for any length of time, you’re likely to accumulate biotoxins. You know, obviously if you have a choice between life and death use your MMS, but if you have alternatives, you would be best to get the NutriDine first, and then the Super Silver or Allimed Allicin. Allimed Allicin is a medical drug administered by doctors in Europe but I have access to sell it here in North America without a prescription. This will kill all pathogens. It’ll kill Lyme disease, viruses, bacteria. We have proof that we can even give it to someone that’s on intravenous antibiotics that’s in the ICU [Intensive Care Unit] and it will save their life. We do that all the time, everyday. That’s the way I would approach it is that yes, it will save lives but it’s toxic. BR: OK. That’s very clear, Bill, thank you very much for that. BD: You’re welcome. BR: I think a lot of people wouldn’t disagree with you, and I think that it’s one of these things that’s good for the occasional emergency, but prolonged use probably is not the ideal... BD: Oh yeah. People who take it daily, as a preventive or for a period of months or years, are going to get problems. But it’s the same thing as people drinking water that’s heavily chlorinated or with fluoride. You accumulate fluoride, and it calcifies the choroid plexus and the ventricles and the pineal gland, and it What they should be giving are NutriDine, Super Silver or Allicin. If they simply gave, for example, the average person... if they took one of our products that is called Better Than Greens with Allicin. If they simply took 180 mg of allicin, three times a day, they would probably not get a primary infection. We have already done a study with ferrets and other animals in Brazil with high pathogenic Avian flu, and we transferred the weight on this -- and this is actual studies done last year -- that one teaspoon of our Super Silver silver salt for an average 70 kg adult will prevent a primary infection. literally shuts down the third eye and astral eye so you can’t see torsional vortex images, and you can’t see transdimensionally. So in terms of the spirit, it actually cuts off what is called the Cord of Living Waters so all halides, other than iodine, block and attack that part of the brain. It attacks the connection of the pineal gland in the sense of the Cord of Living Waters and the higher dimensional reality of what we are. Chlorine is toxic. It’s one of the reasons why they push chlorination of water, and fluoridation... [it’s] why they want to push Sulfuryl fluoride. Which, by the way, isn’t only even more toxic but it’s 17,000 times more of a heat reflective when it gets in the upper atmosphere (and it doesn’t degrade) than even carbon dioxide or methane. BR: My only question now really is: what do you expect to see this summer in North America? BD: Well, to be honest with you, we could stop this pretty quickly if we decided to take decisive action. If, for example, and I put this list together and we had a number of conferences with the military and other people in the last few weeks through Plains Radio. Carmen Reynolds is a Colonel in the Army. The issue is this: If we decided to close the borders immediately; if we decided to screen everybody with a swab to determine if they carry a virus, and track them if they show positive for an Influenza A virus -- which you can do a simple screening test -you may not get a subtype but you’ll see if they are a carrier of the virus. If we were then to make certain that, in areas where there are outbreaks like in Mexico City, we would fly in large heavy-lift aircraft with existing... Not drugs. We are not talking about TAMIFLU. TAMIFLU contains hallucinations, which will hallucinate you, and in some cases some people are so sensitive they actually... It’s like taking PCP or Angel dust. It is a very, very serious bad trip. You don’t want people walking around that are, say military service people, with body flak jackets on and Scott Air Packs under stress taking TAMIFLU and hallucinating. When you give these drugs like TAMIFLU; already H1N1 worldwide is resistant to it. Amantadine, Ramitidine, and TAMIFLU. These current strains they are saying are sensitive to it, but in within four days of exposing a population to a continuous virus, you’ll start seeing resistance show up. So in other words, if you use it now, you don’t have something to use on someone who’s dying from a very serious infection. They have got a resistant strain in their body because two weeks or two months ago you gave that population TAMIFLU.

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We know the same thing with our troops with our NutriDefense. I put in the NutriDefense something so that if they are exposed to anthrax or spores that you cut out 98 percent chance of the possibility of infection by just taking one NutriDefense per day. 98 percent. So there’s extremely simple things like personal hygiene, travel... If every aircraft had a hepa viral filter; if they cleared every aircraft with the AeroClave system which already exists. There is a company where it’s available right now. The airlines could gear up literally today to put it in place. This would die out in a matter of a week or two and the panic would be over. If we would fly into countries where there are outbreaks, like Mexico City, and give these antipathogenics and start making sure all airliners in different countries use these technologies, the problem would die out in a month or so. And we would have some deaths, but we would have it under control. What I’m concerned about is I think their agenda is they want to have enough crisis as a cover for the new financial system which they’re setting up. Because already there’s a contraction of the world economy and 40 percent of the world’s wealth has disappeared. That disappearance is also [inaudible] by the collapsing... And this is stated -- and I had Joan Veon on my show just a few days ago -- that the world financial experts at the Bank for International Settlements that just met in Europe is that the current world economy can only support 5 billion people but there are 6.5 billion plus people on the Earth, which means 1.5 billion are “excess population” based on the finances of our current world economy. They’ve created this crisis so that people cannot, with a day’s work, get a day’s food. So third world countries now, with the financial famine; they’re compounding it because there’s climate shift and that climate shift is going to get considerably worse. And this is something I want to say prophetically: Starting this next month, May and going through to July–August, there’s going to be a shift in under-oceanic currents in the Southern hemisphere. The first warning was the explosion of Tonga that came through the ocean surface with a 7.9 earthquake several weeks ago. What’s going to happen is under-oceanic volcanism is going to change the climate, increase rainfall dramatically in some areas, in other areas there will be major floods and in other areas there will be increased and more serious drought. This, by just climate shift, will cause more food shortages. Crops will be flooded out because of the change in world air currents. A normal climate will be out the window. So when you combine that with a pandemic... And the Baltic Dry Index now for shipment of manufactured goods as well as food is at its lowest since the second world war. We have a situation where they’re purposely compounding it and there could be a very simple solution. So we need to get these solutions through to The Powers That Be to say: this could be stopped tomorrow. We could solve the world’s financial problems by correcting and making the Glass-Steagall Act. Like, for example, the country of Canada was much more responsible. They didn’t allow the banking industry to turn it into a casino. We could make sure that we bring food into the third world countries because when you have starvation it increases the weakened immune system to make viruses more aggressive. So if this virus gets into a population that is starving, it’s going to be transformed into a more aggressive deadly virus for us as well. And we need to stabilize the world banking system without taking away the sovereignty of nations or transferring power to a bunch of international bankers that are not elected. So everything we’re doing right now is actually leading us toward more chaos rather than order and it could be stopped tomorrow, including stopping this from turning into a true worldwide pandemic where millions or even billions could die, stabilizing our financial situation, and then dealing with the food supply by starting to gear-up food production and supporting it so that there is no farmers or businesses going out of business. And we have the proper stabilization of our economy so the bubble economy, the illegal debt instruments that they have been circulating, we don’t poor trillions more into the banks that are doing this. We put them into the debt restructuring as Lyndon LaRouche has said, and we get rid of these debt instruments. We put a moratorium on foreclosures of businesses and homes, we stabilize the food supplies of the third world so that they are not priced out of the staples that keep them alive, and we maintain control of international travel so that we don’t allow this pandemic to shut down the world economy. The chances that it could shut it down, if we have a major high pathogenic death rate, is incredibly likely by this fall if we don’t do these measures now. KC: Dr. Bill, thank you for that; that’s quite an overview. I have a couple of questions I want to ask you and we can discuss whether or not you want to go off the record with the answers or not. BD: Sure. KC: First of all, I’ve had some conversations with Cliff High, you know who he is? BD: Yes, Cliff High. I think he is with the Web-Bot [project] or with Half Past Human. That’s Half Past Human, isn’t it? KC: Yes, Half Past Human. BD: Yes. KC: And, he has said... You know, he actually has quite a bit of animosity toward you, and he has said that he thinks that you get a lot of your information from him. BD: No, I don’t. KC: And I find that hard to believe myself, but I wanted to give you a chance to respond to that here if you want. BD: I only had one conversation with Cliff and I talked to him once; called him and just: Hey, I’ve heard you on Jeff Rense’s program. You said some pretty remarkable things that match up with what I say. And I want to share with him not only my first

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hand information, like this information I had from the World Health Organization and other sources that are, if you want to call it “classified” or the fact that I work with the government, and also the intuitive side. And he was a little upset about that. He said: I don’t want to talk to you about it. And I said: Okay, that’s fine. And that’s my only conversation; he seemed very upset about that. And, I don’t subscribe to Half Past Human. The only information I’ve had is the occasional time I’ve been able to listen to him on Coast-to-Coast radio or Jeff Rense. That’s it. So, if there’s something... KC: Okay, well he has told us that actually you had a doctor or somebody giving you that information. BD: No, I don’t. KC: Okay. BD: No I don’t. BD: No, I was a civilian doctor. I was an occupational doctor. KC: It’s very strange that when he... KC: But in black projects? BD: Now, why would he say that? KC: I don’t know. I actually don’t know. BD: Why would he say that? That’s kind of strange. Here’s the fact, okay? What he’s doing basically is mining information from the global subconscious. In a sense what he’s doing is; it’s in a sense, almost like a... the best way to describe it would be a syntactical and emotive language global subconscious Ouija board. I guess that would be the best way. And he can pull up some information. There’s a bow shockwave of reality that bounces back toward the consciousness so that, in a subconscious way, people know. For example, people have precognition that there may be an accident or a relative that is sick or dying. So he’s just pulling that information out. There’s many intuitives, whether it’s people like my friend John Boncore, who is a Mohawk prophet. There’s people in all kinds of intuitives and psychics, and people that use remote viewing that can see events coming. But as I tell people, they’re not solids; they’re liquids. They’re not yet frozen. There’s a degree of choice and timeline which is why I’m doing this presentation right now. We, as a global consciousness, get to choose which of those timelines. And my job is to act like the guy at the side of the road where there is a branch in the road and there are no road signs. So you ask the guide at the side of the road: Which road should I go down with my little cart? And I’ll say: Well, you don’t want to go down this road here because it leads into the bottom of a valley where there’s a jungle and there’s alligators and wild animals. But over here, ten miles down the road, there’s a community of nice people. They’ll feed you, they’ll will give you good shelter, etcetera. BD: No-no. Let me explain here. Yeah, right. Those kind of accusations you hear all the time. It’s ridiculous. Do they realize the danger -- the physical danger, the career danger -- that I’ve gone through in order to tell people the truth? They have no idea. I’m like a William Wallace, okay? When I worked in occupational medicine back in the early ’80s, they made a decision in the government that they no longer wanted to have a lot of jobs done by people inside the military. Because they either didn’t have the expertise, they wanted to hire a company and if they weren’t satisfied with the work that was done by that company (i.e., medical or contract for specific things), so they started contracting out; especially during the era of Bill Clinton. So what they did, is they contracted for me. And my first major job for C-Com: to contract C-Com to handle Fort Carson, NORAD, Falcon Air Force Base, U.S. Space Strategic Command, the GPS Military-Grade system, and Directed Energy Weapons. The reason why I was their doctor was simply because I was their doctor. I took care of people that worked in these things; worked around these toxic things, worked around rocket labs, and I was their physician. They were not permitted, most of these people, to even talk to their colleagues who were in the next room, let alone the next building. But they would talk to their doctor. And the only difference was with me, is that because I have a technical background in nuclear physics, advanced computing, electronics, biotechnology; they would share with me. And after a while, because I’m a talker, they were more interested in what I would have to say about the bigger picture about what was going on at their facility, and they were more interested in telling me their little piece -- that’s very, very compartmentalized -- than what I would tell them. KC: Yes, I've heard you say that. That’s what my job is to do. Now, so when I contacted him I’m not sure why he got so upset about this. It completely boggled me because I thought: Well, this is really good. We’re having people from various different... how can I say, mining the information whether they are psychics or intuitives, or they are doing something like this, which is looking for a language that’s embedded into the internet and using these web-bots to be able to go search for it. So, I thought it was a good thing. I was really surprised at his response. KC: He believes you are an agent. BD: An agent of what? KC: That you work for the government? BD: Oh, come on! That’s so ridiculous. KC: Okay. Now, you’ve worked for the government in the past though?

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BD: So that’s the reason why I have... KC: I understand that, but I’m just trying to run these things by you so that you understand what you’re up against out there. There seems to be... BD: I have people who have written books as long as ten years ago when I spoke at the Prophecy Club, that literally -- I can’t believe this -- but literally have written a book that I’m the antichrist. I mean, how foolish! [Kerry laughs] I mean, every day I put my personal life, my career, everything on the line to be the whistleblower for... In fact, I just did an audio for tenth anniversary of Columbine. I was the examiner for the Englewood Fire Department and the first young man shot in Columbine outside the restaurant there, Mark Taylor. I was the exit examiner for the 5 Special Op Team of the Oklahoma City Memorial Building. I have been trying to do radial toxicology testing on the World Trade Center debris, and I’m writing the position paper which I’m going to present at We Are Change, New York City, on the eighth anniversary of 9/11. I’ve been told by my radial toxicology colleagues, because I have advanced training in radial chemistry, that if I order the tests the Department of Defense and the FBI will arrest me immediately for requesting the tests of debris which I have from the World Trade Center. Further proving that they not only used Thermate and other high explosives, but they used nuclear bombs in the buildings, okay? KC: Okay, you know... BD: People need to realize that I am a whistleblower central. That’s why my Genesis [Communication Network radio show]... The number one reason, number one, that I did this is: twelve years ago, when I spoke at Human Life International in Zurich on the super-soldier program, which they tried to recruit me to in 1978 at UCLA VA/Wadsworth Hospital and I turned them down, is because I have the documents and the proof that they were trying to create a pandemic flu to bring the world, and literally we are going to enter the new world order with a mask. This is their plan. I had the documents 12 years ago. So four years ago when I started my show it was to warn the people and tell them to get ready because this could be stopped very easily. We can decide for a future where millions do not need to die, and the economy does not need to shut down, and we don’t need to have chaos in our cities. KC: Okay. You know I appreciate everything that you’ve said and I was just trying to give you a chance to respond publicly to all of that, and if you’re willing, we’ll go ahead and release this part of this. BD: Yes. Now here’s the thing that is important, okay? KC: Yes. BD: People need two things: They need to use their intellect... to study. And me, I tell them: Don’t believe, just read. Okay? Read the stuff that is in the open media before they hear me or KC: Thank you, Bill. That’s very, very, very succinct. I would like to ask you, regarding the Israel situation, you say they have targets within Iran. When are you saying that they are planning to attack Iran? anything that’s here on Project Camelot. And then they need to be very quiet and very humble, and need to pray and say: Now was what Deagle saying true? Or what Half Past Human is saying true, or any other person that’s an intuitive or psychic or a remote viewer or whatever. Then they need to follow through with action. Because in my heart I don’t want our society to shut down. I don’t want people to die. I don’t want our culture to become a matrix. I don’t want horror to happen. We have a timeline where we are getting closer and closer to where some of these issues become more inevitable if we don’t change our trajectory, if we don’t change the way we make choices, not just personally. And we have to stop this backbiting, this foolishness; and there’s a degree of jealousy, too. I mean, to be honest with you, I’m a messianic believer, okay? I’m for all religions that firstly have spirituality and a connection with the Creator God and the Universe. All, okay? But I want people to understand there is no room in our modern world, whether it’s Half Past Human or any of the “Christian, Jewish, or other churches” for a real prophet, and that’s what I’m called to speak as. There’s no room. And I can tell you that. They do not want someone to come in and tell them that I was supernaturally given a command to go to Zurich, Switzerland and receive these documents which I didn’t expect to receive. And then to have a number of events happen so I would be the number one whistleblower that the flu pandemic was coming. Even inside the truth movement, I’ve received so much persecution from even other truthers who believe 9/11 was an inside job. You would not believe it, okay? But I’m willing to do the right thing because I have the truth and I have a concern and care for people. KC: Okay. BD: They need to see my heart. And if they are jealous of that, get over it. I’m not here to play games or egos; I’m here to serve my Creator God and save my fellow mankind and all living things on this earth from a horrible end. And that’s where we are going. We have to wake up and stop this pandemic, stop the economic meltdown, stop the State of Israel which is planning with our help to make a northern attack of nuclear sites and 1250 targets inside Iran. We already have a dialogue going on. We need to pray, for example, for President Obama that he will not serve his globalist masters but he will do the right thing so we can stop Israel. If any of these one things happen, it’s a perfect storm from hell. We are going to face a future that is going to be so noxious, so dangerous -- people can’t imagine what we are facing -- but we can turn away from it. We do not need to go there.

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BD: I don’t have a prophetic word but I can tell you from my military, and also classified sources as well, the Israelis are going to do a full nationwide war game in June. They’re also, this year (without a month designated), doing a U.S. Space Command Anti-Missile Star Wars Weapon Simulation with the United States and Israel. They do now have TAD, which is Theater Air Defense. It‘s an advanced Anti-Weapons System, along with the scalar plasma weapon and the chemical laser systems, able to knock out missiles that are coming into Israel. The problem is... KC: You’re saying they are going to do an exercise. When, exactly? BD: They’re doing an exercise in June. That’s next month. KC: And that’s within Israel or with the U.S. and Israel? BD: Within Israel. Now, there is another game going on with space command that is supposed to be sometime this year and I don’t know what month yet, because my sources can’t tell me. But, the one in Israel is June. KC: Okay. Within these games sometimes, as what happened with 9/11, the game becomes a cover for some actual operation that takes place. BD: Exactly. So it could occur in June during this game. The reason we look for it is that in order to do a modern advanced war you need what’s called air based intelligence, etcetera, which is why they do supercomputers. They’ve got Space Based GPS. They have to have all their material in place, so it’s very, very likely that the attack will occur in June during this war game. If it doesn’t it’s going to happen from that point to probably the early fall. If we permit them to do it, the Strait of Hormuzand I was told this supernaturally 20 years ago -- the Strait of Hormuz will be cut off. All the oil which goes to... about 80 percent of it goes to Asian countries. Indonesia, China, South Korea will loose their major supply of oil and the world economy will collapse. The disarray will cause the starvation of a billion people. This we can avoid if we prevent Israel from making an attack. There is no need; as the dialogue is already started between Obama and Ahmadinejad, who is now going to the elections in the next few weeks. Ahmadinejad is now talking, which is a miracle. If we do not move toward peace, the war that we are going to see is not just going to take out people downwind of the Bushehr reactor, which is 62 tons of Uranium 35, but there is 1250 targets they are going to hit with nuclear weapons including neutron bombs, bunker busters, and these new advanced, what’s called plasma warheads, okay? If they do this, I cannot say that we will not have an exchange of other weapons. And almost certainly, and this is from actual sources, there are sleeper agents inside the United States, Canada and Western world in Britain, that have third generation bioweapons developed by Russian scientists for the past 18 years since Glasnost and Perestroika. When these scientists were starving, the Syrians and Iranians hired them, and they have the most advanced biological weapons in history. They will make even the so-called hybrid flu look like it is nothing. So the point is that we can turn back, but we need to hear. The reason I speak now as a prophet is to tell them: Turn back now because there is the way of light and safety and peace and the Coat of Many Colors of Joseph, who is my Father, okay? Because I’m of the tribe of Ephraim, or Joseph. KC: Okay, yes. I appreciate that. You have to understand that we get people... I mean, to call yourself a prophet, this is not unusual. There are many, many, many people out there right now considering themselves the same way you consider yourself. BD: I know. I hear about it all the time. It’s really... it’s disturbing. Anybody who wants to be a prophet is... how can I say, it’s a job no one wants to apply for. If you do, it’s because you are imbalanced. I do not want to do this job. I tried to escape it many times. Believe me, I have been swallowed in the belly of the whale. KC: Okay, well... BD: I’ve been put in the place of these things. If you want to do it, it’s like cleaning a latrine while it’s still being used and you are under it, okay? KC: Well, Bill, you know Project Camelot could be put in that same category. We’re actually... All of the people that are trying to warn the masses, if you will, as to what’s really going on could be classified as prophets. It’s better if we stay out of the sort of evangelical perspective of ourselves and kind of, you know... BD: There’s something I need to clarify. There’s many people that receive a prophetic word, have an intuitive knowledge, have a technology that they use... KC: Absolutely. BD: ...just like there’s “prophets” that are coming out of the Hopi Indian tribe and others. But there’s those who “don’t just operate and receive the prophetic word” now and then, but operate in the office of the prophet. I have to say this repeatedly so people understand it: the reason why I’ve been in all these places is because they needed trust. There’s lots of things I don’t know, okay? There are lots of areas I’m not an expert in. But when I speak in an area like this flu or these wars or other things, I’m speaking in the office of a prophet. Someone who has the authority and right to say it. And you need to understand we have a choice now. KC: I appreciate that. We are going to try to wrap this up right here now. Bill Deagle has to go as well. So I wanted to thank you, Dr. Bill Deagle for your willingness to confront and to be open and talk about issues that are sometimes antagonistic to yourself. That’s a wonderful trait that you have and I just want to honor you for that. BD: Yes, in fact, we actually had a reconciliation; with Donna and Mark Taylor. I actually spoke with them through a live audio connection at the tenth anniversary of Columbine. That negativity, by the way, arose because they had an offer from a movie company to take the script, which we had been working on for over a year, into a big movie.

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We didn’t agree on the modus by which it was going to happen. They had been offered a lot of money and we didn’t want it to be degraded. We wanted the truth to be brought out rather than to have it spawn into something else. And that’s all reconciled. So, out of my discussion with you on that... KC: Okay, well, thank you for that. BD: ...so I can thank Project Camelot. Now I want to say one thing. There’s a chorus -- it’s not just myself -- there’s a chorus of people who truly are called to speak prophetically that need to rise up and say the truth, after being very humble and making sure they don’t have a personal agenda, that we need to turn back from this. We have people like I’m going to have on the program shortly, John Boncore, who’s a Mohawk prophet. He was prophesized hundreds of years ago by his own people. There’s Hopi prophets, there’s Jewish prophets, there’s Christian, there‘s a list. There’s people all over the world that are, literally I call The Coat of Many Colors. Every skin color, every nation, every religion who are starting to know it’s a time of decision for mankind. We need to turn back now or we’re going to face a whole confluence of super storms of economic, climate shift, biological warfare, and evil. For example, there’s very good evidence from Len Horowitz, and I believe he is correct, that the World Health Organization, the CDC and Novavax are behind this latest release of this weaponized plague that’s been released in Mexico City. The globalists have published in their documents that they want to reduce the world population. We do not need to go there. We can have an alternative future where mankind is safe. Where people have true human rights. Where people have the right to grow and to believe and to have safety and healthcare and food and not be exposed to toxic poisons or electromagnetic radiation and have some degree of autonomy. But we are heading toward a world where autonomy is going to be a thing of the past, where mass starvation and violence are going to rule, and I don’t want to see us go there. But we need to turn back now because we have a matter of months, not years left, to make that turn. KC: Okay, thank you, Bill. Bill Ryan, is there anything you want to say before we end this here? BR: I just want to say thank you very much Bill. There’s total consistency with everything you’re saying now and everything that a lot of people have heard or watched you say in your 2006 Granada Forum lecture. We have a team of transcribers who are transcribing that, and that’s nearly finished now, and we are going to make that available to you as soon as we can for publication on your site and everywhere, so the whole thing’s Google searchable; translatable. We want to get this information out there and support you fully in everything you’re doing. BD: Well, I want to pray for people and for you, too -- both you, Kerry, and Bill -- for the wonderful work you’re doing to try to get people to realize that we are co-creators of our own future. We’re not a victim of the future; we are the co-creator, but we also have to take our scepter. We have to also realize that if someone dies in a third world country that’s an untouchable in India, or someone in Mexico City that’s living on a garbage heap dies, we die. Some portion of us dies too. If we allow the use of depleted uranium weapons to kill little girls in the Gaza City by Israeli troops, or we allow nuclear weapons to drop on the Bushehr reactor and downwind millions die from radiation poisoning, we die too. If we can feel that connectedness in spirit, as a cell in the body of mankind, we would repent and we’d turn back from that. KC: Okay thank you. Very well put. All right, I’m going to close this down then. Thank you very much, Dr. Bill Deagle. BD: Thank you Kerry, I really appreciate it. Thank you Bill Ryan and God bless everyone. Now’s the time to have a backbone to stand up for the truth and to pray and to be humble and call on our creator to stand us up on our feet so that we can tell the truth to others that we have to turn back from war, from pestilence, and from economic greed and the idea that we need to reduce the world population with lies like a carbon tax... KC: Absolutely. BD: ...and all these other evils. KC: All right thank you very much. BD: Take care. KC: Bye. BD: Bye-bye. BR: Thank you, Dr. Bill. BD: You’re welcome. Bye. .

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Project Camelot: Erich von Daniken
Interlaken, Switzerland, May 2009
BR: It is presenting the truth to the people who have not been told the truth by the politicians, by the scientists... EvD: They lie anyhow. BR: ...by the teachers, or even by their parents because they don't know any better. EvD: I know. BR: And what we're trying to put in place is an alternative education to... as you said, the title of your new book is called…? EvD: History Is Wrong. BR: History Is Wrong. And history is wrong. [Ed note: Normally the transcripts that had any parts in them that had been difficult for the transcribers to hear were put in “audibles” in square brackets in red for Bill Ryan to attend to, fix, then he’d post the transcript; however, due to unexpected interruptions in the normal working process in Project Camelot, this normal process was not able to proceed forward, so the audibles were left in the square brackets.] BILL RYAN (BR): I want to thank you on behalf of everybody who's learned such a lot from all your work all your life. You've done a fantastic job and I really wanted to tell you this. ERICH von DANIKEN (EvD): Yes, and, in the meantime, I am 74 years old, but the Gods still love me, okay? [laughter] BR: The Gods are taking good care of you. [laughter] EvD: The Gods still love me, and I continue writing books. So, in total, I have, at the moment, 32 books on the market, and I'm just writing one. In the United States, my newest one is called History is Wrong. This one will be on the market in about four months. BR: That's great. History is Wrong is a great title. EvD: It's a great book, too. BR: Yes. EvD: What is your topic? BR: My topic is exactly the same as yours. EvD: Great. Okay. I should have that. BR: Could you remind me, which year did you publish Chariots of the Gods? EvD: 1968. BR: 1968. EvD: That was in German language. EvD: I know it. At least quite a lot of it is wrong. BR: Quite a lot of it is wrong. EvD: Some scientists are lying to us. Of course, the majority are nice and integrity personalities, but some of them are lying. BR: Yes and the guys who really know what's going on are all working for the governments. EvD: Of course. [laughter]

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BR: In German. EvD: It came in the United States in 1969. BR: Okay. I bought it in England... EvD: Oh, okay. BR: ...when I was a little kid. That was the book that got me started on a journey that’s now helped me, and my friends, help a lot of other people. EvD: In the meantime both of us have become not only older, but also wiser. BR: Exactly! [laughter] [Erich and female voices converse in German] BR: Someone now has to translate for me. EvD: Yeah, I’m sorry. [laughter] I just asked them if they saw all the shows. BR: Oh, no, we haven’t seen them all yet. EvD: She said that she saw Nazca. That’s important. BR: Nazca? That’s... EvD: You saw Megastorms? VOICE: Yes EvD: Okay. Vimana, here? India? VOICE: Yes. [background chatter] BR: I have some questions to ask you. EvD: Yes, please. BR: And all of this is being recorded – with your assumed permission – because we'd love to put this out on the Internet. It would be our pleasure to give you some publicity here. EvD: Thank you. We need publicity for this project now. BR: But is this now open -- just for the summer, or is it reopening permanently? What’s the plan here that you have? EvD: No. In the past it was wrong to shut the park down. We should never have closed it, because such a project is like a big restaurant – you need time. You need at least 4 or 5 years, so the public outside of Switzerland knows that such a park exists. BR: Yes. EvD: For the moment we just do it for summer, but then in November we have to decide what to do, re-open it for the whole year or not. We need new innovation, we need new stuff, new material, which means a lot more money. It’s always a question of money. BR: Oh yeah. Sure. EvD: Most people love money. [laughs] BR: Well, that’s right. Are you trying to reach the children? Or are you trying to reach the people like us, who’ve asked questions all our lives? EvD: Okay, yes, we reach the children for the children’s part of the park. But for the shows, I rather want the adults; the people who think. You know, we have a motto here, and the motto is in German on the expression of “Da stounden bena leirman.” [Ed note: This is a rough translation; a better one is needed] Mystery Park is not a place where someone dictates and says: I’m having right. This is the true answer. Mystery Park is the place which ends always with question marks. BR: Okay. [Bystanders converse in German, distract EvD and BR] BR: Ah, maybe we could just step outside. [EvD and BR walk to a cafe] BR: Here’s a table. That's wonderful. This is great. EvD: So the park is now open in summer for the moment, because in winter it was absolutely not a good business. BR: Right.

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EvD: When you be careful on the earphones, whatever you see – you see side attractions or main attractions – it always ends with question marks. BR: So, that’s why it’s called the Mystery Park and not the park that has all the answers. EvD: If you would give the answers, it’s no more mystery. BR: I understand. Yes, exactly. But, for yourself, personally, do you feel after all these years that you’ve got answers; that you’ve been... EvD: Of course. I know very, very clearly what happened. BR: Tell us. EvD: A thousand… [Ed note: unclear] [Bill laughs] Thousands of years ago the ETs were here, evidently, and there was an artificial mutation, changing our genes. So we are partly terrestrials because we are like evolution, and partly we are extraterrestrial. EvD: Yes. Exactly. And today we have the same thing. I mean, the Christians, they wait for the re-coming of Jesus Christ. The Muslim community waits the return of the Mahdi. The Jewish society awaits the return of the Messiah. So now, obviously not every religion can be right. Some of them must be wrong, and I say they’re all wrong. BR: Now, when you say that they’re going to return, you mean they’re going to return openly. EvD: Yes. BR: Because, of course, they’re here now. I’m sure we agree on that. EvD: This will be a shock. We call it The Shock of the Gods. [laughs] BR: The shock of the Gods… that would be another great title for a book. BR: And what’s happening now, Erich? Because there is a big change in consciousness happening on the planet right now. Everyone is aware of it. You must be aware of it. What’s going on now? EvD: Well, these ETs, when they left us, they promised to return and they will return. Now we have one possible date – that’s this Maya date, you know – 2012. BR: How important do you feel that is? BR: It’s about 14:30. EvD: Not very. BR: Mm-hm. EvD: I’m absolutely sure they will return, but you cannot fix the date, not even with the Maya calendar because the Maya calendar -- you have first to calculate into our calendar, and this calculation is wrong. BR: Yes. EvD: If the starting point is wrong, then the end result is wrong, too. Finally, we are not even sure if our own calendar is correct. EvD: Well, at 3 o'clock there’s Orient. At 3:15, Nazca. 15:30: Maya. Have you seen Maya? BR: Yes, we’ve seen Maya. EvD: [reading show schedule] Astonishing! Challenge. You have not seen Challenge. Okay. FEMALE VOICE IN GROUP: Are you satisfied about everything that you’ve done in your life? Because it’s a wonderful park. EvD: So many people... I have in German a book: Der Gotter Schlag. which is not exactly but... [Ed note:A rough translation] BR: Oh! Okay. EvD: [to surrounding group] But now listen, it’s much more important you go to see every show! [laughter] Now it’s 14 hours and what? BR: Yes. EvD: We count 2009. That means 2009 since the birth of Christ. But if this is wrong, the figure 2009 is wrong, too. Maybe they started 30 years later with counting. It’s all a mess. But one thing is definitely sure: They will return. They promised it. We have written reference to that. They will definitely return to Earth, and every culture in the past had this expectation of the re-coming of someone – be it the Maya, the Inca, the Egyptians – they all were expecting somebody. BR: Or even The Second Coming, which is a kind of metaphor.

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EvD: No, not everything. I’m satisfied about my books. We have a total edition of about 62 million copies. BR: In many different languages, eh? EvD: 1968, yes… EvD: Yeah, in 30 languages, which is not bad. So, that really means you bring people to think, you are moving something. But of course, most of the people on this planet, they don’t want to know what we declare, what we say. BR: Yes. EvD: And some parts of the scientific community are not interested at all. They call it all: it’s all shit, it’s all garbage. BR: Yeah. But it’s easier now than it was when you started 30, 40 years ago. EvD: It is. Forty years ago, even 20 years ago, I was just ridiculed all over. BR: Yes. EvD: In the meantime, the situation has changed. Maybe it’s a respect of my work or my age, and some of the clever people -they start to realize that I’m probably not so wrong. [laughs] BR: Well, I think Graham Hancock has probably learned a great deal from you. EvD: I know him very well. BR: You know him well. Because he’s taken your work further, hasn’t he? EvD: Ya, ya, of course. Zecharia Sitchin, too... others. Many others. We know each other. We all know each other’s work. BR: Yes. EvD: Ya, it takes some generations before you change the mind of the people. BR: It’s a big team effort, I think. EvD: Exactly. There’s another man here. Okay. Three men among all this... [laughter; crosstalk] BR: It’s always the women who are more aware. [laughter] You understand that. EvD: Yes. I understand that. BR: But things are changing, Erich, and it’s a team effort. One of the reasons why I wanted to meet you was to thank you, as I said, because you were one of the people who really got this ball rolling… The book was already published here... after three weeks it was number one on every bestseller list. Then came the United States, England, and so on. BR: Yes. It was like the right thing at the right time, wasn't it, in some ways? EvD: I was never calculating the right time. I have been accused lately that I did it just on purpose at that time to make money. That’s all garbage! The manuscript was finished two years earlier. I just could not find a publisher. BR: Sure, sure. But it’s nice to be right because you must have sold millions of copies of that. EvD: Yes, we have sold millions of copies, but I made not millions of money. [Bill laughs] Sometimes you have a year and you earn 600,000 Swiss francs, which is brilliant, but at the same year you just spent 600,000 Swiss francs for some expeditions and helicopters and jungle stuff and measurements. So the money comes in and the money goes out. EvD: Of course. But, you know, I had the manuscript of the Chariots of the Gods... [speaks in German] The manuscript was finished in 1966 already, and I sent it to 20 German publishers and Swiss publishers. They all rejected it. They all sent the manuscript back with the usual blah, blah, blah: It’s not scientific; it’s not the way we can publish it; it’s not belonging to our program, and so on. Finally, I was lucky. I was a manager of a hotel at that time, a first class hotel, and in my hotel I had an editor of the big German newspaper, and he said: Hey, I know one of the publishers. We could phone him. And he phoned, so finally I was lucky to get Chariots of the Gods published in Germany. BR: And because you had a tough time when you started your book, it’s made it much easier for other people to follow. It’s like the guys who go into the jungle first of all, you know? EvD: That is true. BR: …back in the 1960s.

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BR: Yes. Yes. EvD: But we are working scientifically. In the kiosk there, you know, in the shop, there is a leaflet only in German language [says something in German]. Something is wrong in Nazca. It’s only in German language. You can’t release it. So we have given order to the Technical University in Dresden to make certain measurements in Nazca and the result is absolutely crazy. BR: What do you mean? Can you explain that? EvD: For example, under the lines we found very strong magnetic fields. You can measure them, you know exactly – it’s two-and-a-half meters deep in the ground, but you have no possibility to dig there. It is all under terrible control. If you just take a little stone away, you are under arrest. We find a change of the electric fields. If I put 220 volts in here and I had a measurement instrument and I measure it here, so how is the current flowing? [says something in German] And we have made fifty points in the desert, and in the desert, of course, there is no electric flow because sand is an isolator, like ceramic, for example. BR: Sure. EvD: But on the lines the flow of the electric currency was 8,000 times higher than just next to it in the desert. You find all this in this booklet with the pictures; with the measuring that it takes. BR: What’s your own theory about the Nazca lines, Erich? Because it’s a real mystery. I mean, that is a real mystery. EvD: Yes. I’m sure there were extraterrestrials, not in the sense that they needed an [asterisk?]. They don’t need an [asterisk]. BR: Sure. EvD: There was some sort of machine coming down, like a shuttle, and they were looking for raw material. I don’t know what sort of raw material, uranium, copper, or whatever. They were looking for raw material and they were digging away the raw material, and the natives could not understand what was going on. The natives were afraid. They were thinking these gods were coming down. And only after the extraterrestrials left again – so to say, when their tank was full – they had some lines on the ground and they see there the gods made these lines. And other natives, they started to produce lines themselves. BR: So they were imitating the gods. EvD: Imitating the gods. And finally a priest had a good idea. They always have good ideas. They said: We have to show them signs up there. We have to show them that we are here. **Transcript provided by the hard-working volunteer members of the Divine Cosmos/ Project Camelot Transcription Team. All the transcripts that you find on both sites have been provided by the Transcription Team for the last several years. We are like ants: we may be hidden, but we create clean transcripts for your enjoyment and pondering.** BR: Sure. Are you optimistic for the future of the human race? There’s a big question for you. EvD: That’s a big question. Nobody knows. Of course we will survive. All humanity will never be destroyed, even if we have some catastrophes and so forth. Some will survive and then we continue, the next generation. [laughter] BR: So, the game is not over yet. EvD: The game is never over. The game continues all the time. BR: Exactly. Thank you so much. EvD: Just read my book! She read it here, and go to the Nazca. [overlapping voices] [applause] So in the lines they start with gigantic figures of fishes and monkeys and spiders and birds. Anyhow, but the main thing is they will return. I’m sure about this. That’s the changing. People like you, people like me, maybe people like them, we have a sense for this. We have a feeling. BR: Oh, yeah. EvD: We know that something is coming. BR: That’s true. EvD: This is not just imagination. BR: It’s why I’m here this lifetime. EvD: It has to do with our genetic code, with the information which we have in us.

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Project Camelot: Bill Ryan - A New World - If You Can Take It
Zurich, Switzerland, July 2009  

This is Ruth Huber. Ruth is one of the most important people here, not only because she’s played a huge role in bringing this conference together, but also because she’s one of the key translators. I’m trying to embarrass her. [laughter & applause] Okay. NOTE: Ruth Huber's alternating German translation has not been included in this transcript. Only her English comments are shown, but she played a prominent role in making the material accessible to the German language speakers in the audience. Start of Lecture Bill Ryan: So, are we on? This is it. Ruth Huber (Translator): I think so. We can start. Bill: All right. Is there anyone else to come in the room here? All right. So, everybody; welcome to the conference. We’re delighted that you're here, and that you’ve made the journey from wherever it is you've come from. The first thing I want to do - I think you all know who I am, Bill Ryan from Project Camelot, but a member of the Swiss Ground Crew. I’m very, very proud to be part of this team. [applause] There’s something very important to say here about that, and I do thank you for giving that spontaneous applause to this team. This is not a professional conference. In English, the opposite of professional is “amateur”. For those of you, who know Latin, know that the word amateur means people who love what they do. We’re not doing this for money. Don’t ever organize a conference for money! It’s not going to work. But you might just want to organize a conference because you love doing it, and I would highly recommend that. Actually, before I start talking about the history of this conference, I want to introduce my alter ego. A lot of people write to us and they say: Hey, I’m part of the Dutch Ground Crew, or the German Ground Crew, or the Spanish Ground Crew. It’s important to realize that the word Ground Crew, the phrase “ground crew” actually came from George Green. George Green isn’t here but he actually has played quite a big part in this conference, although his role is sort of invisible. This conference actually started just before we went – that is, when I say “we” I mean Kerry Cassidy and myself from Project Camelot – went to Ecuador in January of this year, and one of the Swiss team here, who is somewhere in the audience – I dare not identify her because she’s got a lot to answer for… Ruth: I didn’t get that. Bill: You didn’t get that. [laughter] One of the Swiss team here, before we went to Ecuador - and she’s in the audience here. I’m not going to identify her, but everything that’s happening here is all her fault [laughter] – said to me: When you see George Green in Ecuador, can you invite him back to Switzerland? Because we would love to have him here. Now, George Green had all kinds of other plans and he’s a busy man and he wasn’t able to come to Switzerland this summer, but when we were talking with Brian O’Leary – Dr. Brian O’Leary, he’s here in the front row. You’ll be hearing from him on Sunday and also tomorrow evening. Some people have understandably thought that this was a Project Camelot conference. It’s not a Project Camelot conference; it’s a Swiss Ground Crew conference. We’ve been receiving emails from all over the world, and, in a moment, we’ll go through what countries you all are from because a lot of people have traveled a long way.

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[to Brian] Stand up, stand up, please. [applause] Brian O’Leary is a very wonderful man and it’s my privilege, I think, to be able to call him a good friend. He said: Hey, I’ll come to Europe. I climbed the Matterhorn when I was a young man, I’d love to see it again. So we had this idea of this little group of people, and we’d have Brian maybe in this little room, and we’d share some coffee together and he’d tell some stories to us. And then, someone else, who’s also in this room and who we shouldn’t identify, said: You know what? It would be really wonderful to invite Dan Burisch to Switzerland. I said: There’s absolutely no chance of that happening. That’ll never happen. Then I had an afterthought, and I thought: Well, I could just send a mail, it’s very easy to send a mail. And he said: Okay. I’ll come to Zurich. No problem. [laughter] I don’t know whether Dan is in this room right now, I think he’s coming later. Is Dan here? No. No he’s not. Dan’s coming later because he’s still on American Pacific Time, which means that he’s just sort of starting to feel like it’s breakfast. [laughter] That’s why he’s on this evening. I know that an awful lot of you have come here specifically to hear his story. And I’ll say a little bit more about that in the next hour or so because I want to give Dan as much of an introduction as I can because it’s a very complicated story. Then what happened was that we had Brian, and we had Dan. Then Dan said: Hey, I want Marci to come. Then people were saying: Well, you can stand up and talk to some people, too. And then, suddenly, we had a conference. [laughter] We invited David Wilcock; he’s never been to Europe before. So this is really quite a special event. Yesterday evening, for quite a long time late into the night -Dan, Marci, David and myself -- had a two hour video conversation, which was so interesting that we practically had to drag David and Dan out of their seats at midnight because it could have gone on until daylight. That was the first time the four of us have actually been in the same place to talk about a lot of this material together and that’s been recorded on video, and that will be released as soon as possible; it’s interesting stuff. Now, before I dive into this interesting stuff, I just want to acknowledge the people who have taken up a lot of time, spent quite a bit of money and demonstrated a huge amount of commitment to be here this weekend. We have people here from 25 different countries. I just want to read these out to you because it’s quite impressive. Every time I look at this list, I’m impressed. It’s a list, in alphabetical order. I’m not going to embarrass you, but I do invite you that, if I read out your country, I would love you to raise your hand, so we can actually see that you’re here. I won’t ask you to stand up or tell us what your real name is, or anything like that. [laughter] And all of you agents in this audience, we hope you have fun and it’s all cool. [laughter] We hope you have a good time. Because this is in alphabetical order, who’s come here from Australia? Ruth: Ah! [applause] Bill: Isn’t that amazing? That blew me away. These are not rich people, but they’re committed people. They have a different kind of wealth. So we won’t talk about Cricket, okay? [laughter] Ruth: We won’t talk about...? Bill: That doesn’t translate into German. [laughter] Okay, and you don’t have to give each other rounds of applause, because that all wastes a lot of energy, but Austria is the next one. All right. Good. Belgium? All right. Canada. Who’s from Canada? We know we’ve got a couple people from Canada; maybe you’re shy or maybe you’re late, but you’ve paid. [laughter] Croatia? Okay, wonderful. The Czech Republic? Denmark? Okay. Ecuador. Ruth: Hey! [applause & laughter] Bill: France? Great Britain? A lot of people from Germany, I think. Israel? Italy? Luxembourg? Malta? We’ve got a large contingent from the Netherlands. Ruth: Wow! [applause] Bill: It’s a small country full of very smart people, just like the Swiss. [laughter] Okay, Norway? Poland? Portugal? Slovakia? Slovenia? Spain? Sweden? Switzerland? Alright… Ruth: It feels like the Eurovision Song Contest. Bill: Eurovision Song Contest. [laughter] Absolutely, yes! And… the USA. [applause] We were going to have somebody in America, actually living in China, he was going to come. Some strange things have happened to some of the people who’ve been intending to come to this conference. Now, we’re not going to ask anyone to share any details here, but I bet that there are some people here who had to overcome some last-minute problems to get here. The guy from China couldn’t make it, because his son had been kidnapped by his ex-wife! We hope that nothing like that happened to you guys, but we’ve had our fair share of interesting incidents. Ruth: Oh, yeah. [laughter] Bill: Okay. George Green coined this phrase “The Ground Crew” and there’s a wonderful little book -- it’s a free eBook -which is available on his website. Actually, it’s a series of four

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books and the fourth book is called Messages For The Ground Crew. I highly recommend that you read this. It’s a little book that George tells a very interesting story that it’s basically a channeled book; he didn’t write it, it just came through his fingers. This was a message basically from a group who he identified as the Pleiadians. The message in this book was that we may not have a lot of time to fix things up here; that the Earth is in trouble, the human race is in trouble. The story doesn’t have to have an unhappy ending, but there’s quite a lot of work to do and someone’s got to do it. This book, this little book, the Messages For The Ground Crew, was like a calling to people who considered themselves to be the people who were going to do the work if nobody else did. It’s a very interesting situation, because I’m quite sure that a lot of people in this room -- maybe everyone in this room -- you might not actually consider yourself to be a totally normal human being. [laughter] Now, I’m not going to ask you to hold up your hands and admit to being really strange, but I’ll try the opposite. Is anyone willing to hold up their hand and think that they’re really normal? [laughter] We have two people. Maybe you’re in the wrong conference. [laughter] I’m quite sure that there are a lot of people here who believe, or who know, or have recalled, or are recalling that they’re here this lifetime for a purpose. My friend and colleague, Kerry Cassidy, is organizing a conference in Los Angeles in September and the title of that conference is Awake and Aware. That was her idea, and it’s a pretty good title, I wish I’d thought of it. But there are a lot of people here who are awake and aware. Two weekends ago, we had the great pleasure and privilege – it was an extraordinary weekend, actually – of meeting somebody called Dr. Pete Peterson. I’ll say a little bit about that here, then more in my workshop on Sunday morning. One of the many things that Pete Peterson told us was that, as far as his research had led him to understand, 15 percent of humans had extraterrestrial DNA that could be directly identified. The same man told us, because of some things that he has a lot of experience of in his career, that those same fifteen percent are resistant to being mind controlled. The implications of this are very, very interesting. It implies that it may be quite hard to wake up 85 percent of the population. This is across all races and nationalities. But the 15 percent are waking up and I think that everyone in this room is going to be part of that group. As I kind of put these pieces together, this is really what this grouping called the Ground Crew are, or may be. It’s not just a grass roots movement. [to Ruth] Do you know what I mean by 'grass roots'? Ruth: Not really. Bill: Not just in the public, it’s not just a public movement by the person in the street, the ordinary person. There are people on the inside. There are people on the inside of the military of the intelligence services, even in politics. Military intelligence and politics, and these are good guys as well. There are quite a lot of them. We’ve met some of them, and they’re doing what they can from the inside to change things. What this conference is about – well, let me start that sentence again. One of the things this conference is about; it’s helping to form what Rupert Sheldrake called a morphic field. Or, to change the metaphor, we’re trying to create a wave, or we’re trying to get a snowball rolling. And we’re not alone in here because we know that a lot of you guys are doing everything that you can in your own countries, in your own ways. There is a real movement here, there’s a real awakening, a lot of people becoming more aware. A lot of people are talking about it. Almost all of you will be on the Internet a lot and it’s being talked about and this is a real phenomenon. David Icke is talking about it; David Icke was one of the first people to really start shaking people awake back in the early 1990s. In the early 1990s, David Icke was talking about what David Wilcock calls Illuminati politics. He felt that his mission was to talk about a lot of startling and incredible information about what really is happening in the world. We had the privilege of talking with him in February of this year, personally, and what he wanted to talk about then was the role of consciousness. And this is really the theme of this conference, although there’s a lot of interesting stuff that we can talk about. We can talk about Illuminati politics and we can talk about high technology, too. There’s a lot of very interesting stuff. We may have somebody in this room who’s been off-planet, for example, and I’m not going to ask them to raise their hand unless they want to. [laughter] It’s not him. There is a lot of – in English, we use the euphemism – there’re a lot of sexy things we could talk about. But what we really want to talk about is the important stuff, and the important stuff is how we can all work together to create a better world. Hence, the title of this conference, which is: A New World, If You Can Take It. And I didn’t think of that title either. Some of you probably know that this came from Colonel Philip Corso. He’s now passed on but he wrote a very significant book called The Day After Roswell. The story of how that phrase came into prominence is best told by his son. What his son explained was that in 1957 his father was in White Sands Missile Base in New Mexico. He encountered a disc and a being in the desert. It was sitting there in the desert and it was sort of phasing in and out of his field of vision; it was a very strange phenomenon.

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He was very shocked, and as he looked at this being, this being contacted him telepathically. The being asked him if he could go back to the central operations base at White Sands and turn off the radar. As many of you may know, there’s a lot of evidence that one of the reasons why the discs crashed in the late 1940s and early 1950s was because of the high-powered radar that was being used. So this little ET asked Philip Corso to turn off the radar so that he could get out of here and go. And Philip Corso asked the question: Well, if I help you, what’s – in English we say – what’s in it for me? What do I get out of this? This little extraterrestrial - or whatever he was - said: A new world if you can take it. So this phrase didn’t come from a human being or, if it was a time traveler, it didn’t come from a human being from this time. One of the reasons why I love this phrase – a new world, if you can take it – is that, in English, it has a double meaning. In English it can mean two things. It can mean: a new world, if you can handle it, and the other meaning is: it’s a new world that’s there for you to take it, if you want to. Like reaching up for something on a high shelf in a supermarket, you can take it. In other words, it’s available if we want it. This, also, is what this conference is about, because it’s about what kind of future is waiting for us. And even that isn’t an accurate use of words. The really accurate way of putting it is: What future will we create for ourselves? We get into all kinds of paradoxes here because there is strong evidence - and you will hear much more about this this evening when we hear from Dan Burisch - the strong evidence that we have been visited by future humans; human beings from the future who have returned to try and help and give us some valuable information. Even that is not a proper use of words, because just now I said they’re from the future. But more accurate would be to say they’re from “a” future. There’s a lot of evidence that we have a choice of futures. There are alternative futures. There are different ways in which this whole virtual reality game which we’re in, this movie which we’re all playing in, could actually end. It doesn’t actually end, but we get the idea. [laughter] Another metaphor would be, it’s like: which path do we want to take? And one of the things that Dan is going to talk about this evening with Marci McDowell is how it may be that there is good news; there is encouraging news, about the fact that, maybe, things aren’t going to be as bad as we thought. Now this is incredible information. When I say incredible, I mean it in the literal meaning of the word, it is “not believable”. We know that this information is hard to believe. We know that Dan Burisch is hard to believe. We have people writing to us every day saying that Dan Burisch is hard to believe and I agree with them. But there’s something very important here that we ask you, and that is that, if you are in doubt about this story, we ask you to suspend your disbelief. We ask you not to disbelieve until you hear the evidence. I’ve spent a lot of time with this man; it’s been a great privilege for me to do so. The most recent time I spent with him was several hours in a car yesterday. We went off to look at the Swiss countryside and we ended up having another conversation about his experiences. And he talked about them in great detail on the video that we recorded with David Wilcock late last night. I will stake my reputation on the fact that this man is telling the truth. David Wilcock - who many of you have also come here specifically to hear - has also been in close touch with Dan since 2003. David is sure that this story is true. From my personal point of view, the story goes right back to the beginning of Project Camelot, just over three years ago. It feels like a very long time ago, but I guess it really isn’t a long time compared with the many years that many UFO researchers have been working. I had only just met Kerry and we just had this wild idea that we could assist and continue the work of the Disclosure Project, which we admired, just by talking to people and helping them get the information out about what they’d experienced. Because, like many of you, I’m sure, both Kerry and I had been inspired by the work of Steven Greer when he brought out a number of witnesses to the Washington Press Club conference; I think it was in May of 2001. We admire the work of Steven Greer. We’ve never met him, but we’re both going to be at the Exopolitics Conference in Spain, which is in a couple of weekends time, and we have an arrangement to talk to Steven Greer then, which will be a lot of fun. Anyway, in those days, just like many of you – you’ve got blogs, you’ve got web sites, some of you are journalists; you’re doing everything you can do to try to get this information out. This is a big team effort all over the world. We just picked up this little camcorder that Kerry had - you could fit it in your pocket, it was tiny - and we just started talking to people. We were amateurs. In fact, I’ll tell you a joke about this, which is really true. One of the favorite messages that I ever got in an email was from somebody last year who wrote to me and said: You know, for many months, I thought that you must be working for the CIA. Then he said: I finally realized that you couldn’t be, otherwise your videos would be a lot more professional. [laughter] I took that as a compliment; I thought it was very funny. It’s what Kerry Cassidy calls guerilla film making. [laughter] So we were just doing our thing and we had the opportunity – it’s a wonderful opportunity – to meet Dan Burisch, and we were introduced by Bill Hamilton. We were as enthusiastic to meet Dan as probably many of you are, and we know this is why you’re here. I personally have been interested in his story since 2002 and, when we met Dan for the very first time, within ten minutes, I

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realized that this was an exceptional man. He was smart, he was humble, he was funny, he was aware and he was completely committed to doing the job that he had been told to do, of releasing this information. One of the things that he is going to do this evening, when he’s presenting on this platform, is he will play you the recording of when he was given his orders to release this information. Because what Dan is doing is actually part of an unofficial – no, let me say this again – it’s part of an official disclosure program with built-in plausible deniability. Ruth: Will you explain this a little more? Bill: Absolutely. He was ordered to tell this unbelievable story of everything that he knew and everything that he experienced. The person who ordered him was the previous MJ-1 in the Majestic 12 group, and this is John Mike McConnell who, after he stepped down from that role in Majestic, became the Director of National Intelligence in the U.S. – the DNI. In other words, he’s the guy who is the boss of the head of the NSA. He’s the top dog. Dan will say a lot more this evening about Mike McConnell and his relationship with Mike McConnell. The unenviable position that Dan is in is that, if we were to go and find Mike McConnell and say: Well, what do you think of this story? He would say: This man is obviously crazy. So they’re using Dan to disseminate this information into, I guess, those 15 percent of people who are awake and aware. Dan will tell you this evening what a tough job that has been. And he’ll tell you about his reaction when he first received those orders, which were in October 2005. And then along came Project Camelot. Ruth: Will you tell about this reaction now? Bill: No, that’s for Dan. I mean, that’s Dan’s story. I’m just preparing the ground. But… along came Project Camelot. We had no idea what we were getting ourselves into but, after meeting Dan, it was so obvious to us that this man had high integrity and the best of intentions that we, then, became an unknowing part of this unofficial disclosure movement. When I asked Dan – ah, this is really quite funny. We met Dan for dinner, Kerry Cassidy and myself, at the beginning of last year, about 18 months ago, and I said to him: You know, it’s amazing, because we’re hiding out in the open. Everyone knows who I am; I make it obvious who I am; everyone knows my name; I don’t try and hide. If the intelligence agencies wanted to stop what we were doing, they could do it really easily. Every now and then we get a little bit of trouble, but, basically, we’re being allowed to do what we do. I’m not really claiming anything too special here, because those of you with blogs and web sites, and those of you who are journalists and film makers here in this room, no one’s really trying to stop you, either. Not really. They could really have just squashed us like flies if they’d wanted to, and they haven’t done that. So I asked Dan, I said: Is it possible that Mike McConnell, in his role of Director of National Intelligence, could be protecting us? Dan fixed me with a very twinkling eye – Dan has a very expressive face – and he said: If he was, you would never know about it, would you? So that’s my answer – he answered my question – that we are being allowed to do what we do, because the governments and the intelligence agencies and the military of this world -- they have a problem. As we say in English, they’re in over their heads; they have a huge problem. Many of you will know how they’ve been trying to handle this problem for many, many years to get this information out without causing social disruption, panic, or too much personal shock for people. A couple of years ago I had a very interesting conversation with Dr. Hal Puthoff, the famous physicist, the director of the Institute of Advanced Studies in Austin, Texas. It’s one of my personal goals to interview him on Project Camelot, by the way. It was Hal who explained to me – and he’s a very intelligent guy, he’s a very nice guy, I’m privileged to count him as a friend as well – and he said that what’s important -- and he was sort of giving me advice, rather like an uncle -- he said: Don’t try and prove anything; because, if you come out with documents and photographs, things that cannot be denied, then people will go into shock because their reality will be challenged. If all we’re doing is: we’re telling crazy stories about time travel and future humans and all this wild high technology, but we can’t prove anything, then the 15 percent of the awake and aware people will say: Okay, I thought it was like that and thanks for confirming it. And the others guys will say we’re all crazy and they’ll carry on, watching TV and going to church on Sunday morning. [laughter] So one of the factors in Project Camelot that has enabled us to continue operating is that we don’t present proof; we don’t have any proof. But what we do have is a lot of consistent stories. And, after we met Dan Burisch in - I think it was July… I think it was this month in 2006, I actually can’t remember – and we got on video this wild story. And for those of you who are still not quite clear about this story, I will just give you the summary version right now. That story is that at least some of the so-called extraterrestrials are actually not just visitors from other planets, but they are time travelers from other times. Not only are they visitors from other times, but they’re human beings from a future time; from several different times in the future, but all on this same timeline. A whole variety of very strange things happened that caused a huge amount of complexity and entanglement of the timeline. But, the essence of what the future humans wanted to communicate was that, in their history, there was a catastrophe. It happened round about now and the cause of this catastrophe was

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connected with the passage of the solar system through a region of energized space. Again, this is condensed and not intended to be fully, technically accurate, because the realities are very complicated, but one of the secret high-tech devices that some of the governments in the world had was called The Looking Glass. The Looking Glass is a way of gathering information from different times. It’s a sort of portal; it’s a window; you can look through it, or into it, and you can retrieve information from the future. To make that story even more incredible, this wasn’t given to us by visiting extraterrestrials; this was back-engineered from Sumerian cylinder seals. Anyone who knows about the work of Zecharia Sitchin will understand that the Sumerians received their civilization and their technical knowledge from the Anunnaki. So, as I understand it, the Looking Glass is Anunnaki technology, which is being used by the American government as a really useful way of looking ahead to see what was going to happen -with all the attendant paradoxes and complexities that went along with that. One of the things that Dan told us was that many politicians - not just American politicians - had been told what had been seen for them in the future. And, as long as they liked what they saw, then they just acted out the role just like actors in a movie, because they knew what it was that they were meant to be doing. Something that Dan said that added further complexity to this story was that the Roswell crash was also a visit from timetraveling future humans and that that was a genuine accident. One of the immediate problems that resulted from that was that, in the late 1940s, the Americans were experimenting with timetravel technology that they did not understand. If you start experimenting with technology like that, and you don’t know what you’re doing, you’re going to get yourself in a real mess. A part of that is something that David Wilcock, who’s just joined us in this room – David, nice to see you [applause] – David’s talking for much of the day tomorrow and one of the things that he may or may not refer to is that a number of years ago, he was sitting in a restaurant, occupying himself by reading one of Peter Moon’s books about the Montauk Project. At that time, David thought that the Montauk Project was a pretty crazy story and was very unlikely to be true. And this other guy was over at this other table in this restaurant and saw him reading the book. He came over to David and said: Do you mind if I join you? He said: What do you think of that book? David said: It’s a crazy story; I’ve got nothing else to read right now. If I’m misrepresenting this story, David, I apologize, but this is the essence of it. David Wilcock: I actually told him it was bullshit. [laughter] Bill: David doesn’t pull any punches. This guy came over to David and said: Well, actually, maybe it’s not just bullshit, because I can tell you some things about this story. This was somebody who David then got to know over a period of quite a long time really very well, and he called him Daniel, which is not his real name. Daniel said that at least the first of Peter Moon’s series of Montauk books was essentially quite true. And David’s a pretty smart guy, so actually, he started listening. But he never published any of that information; he kept it to himself. This is where these different testimonies start to come together. Because, after we had personally heard this story from Dan Burisch, we then met a guy who we have given the pseudonym to, of Henry Deacon. Many people think that these people we bump into, that, somehow, they’ve been planted, or it’s all been engineered, or it’s all been choreographed in some way. But, rather like David meeting Daniel in the restaurant, our meeting Henry really was quite an accident. When Kerry and I met Henry for the first time, it was in a very noisy Pizza Hut. The first thing Henry did was, he took out his cell phone, put it on the table and took out the battery, because cell phones can be used as listening devices, even if they’re turned off. And Henry started talking about an enormous amount of fascinating information that included the mention of time travel and Montauk. Now, I’m English and I’m not quite so expressive as David is, so I didn’t actually use the word bullshit, but I was very surprised, and I said: Are you saying that the Montauk project is real? Henry said that we shouldn’t call it the Montauk project; there were Montauk projects – in the plural – and that the Americans have been messing around with time-travel technology for many, many years and had created all kinds of paradoxes and problems. And every time they tried to fix it, they made it worse. I asked Henry if he’d heard of Dan Burisch’s story, because I immediately thought that there must be a correlation here and Henry had not heard of Dan. So we said: Well look, this sounds like the same sort of stuff. Watch our video and do get back to us because we’d love to know what you think. Three weeks later, Henry got back to us and he said: I can confirm Dan Burisch’s story, timelines and all. That really made us sit up and take notice of this stuff. Intuitively, we had strongly felt that this was the heart of the problem, but it was very valuable to have this coming at us from two different sources, who we’d met and spent time with personally. After we published this information from Henry on our web site, then David Wilcock contacted us, and we hadn’t previously been in contact with him at all. David said: This information is really important, because it’s the first confirmation I have heard of what my source, Daniel, told me, which I have never published. Then we met David and we did an interview with him. Ruth: That was the first meeting with David?

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Bill: Yes, that was the first meeting with David. David told us a lot of the stuff that Daniel had shared with him during the time that they’d spent together. Therefore, what I want to say is like an adapted version of something that Bill Cooper said – William Cooper, very well known to many of you -- he said this back at the end of the 1980s. What Bill Cooper said in a very famous lecture, which is still available on the Internet, he said: You cannot make sense of geopolitics in the world without including the UFO/extraterrestrial issue. He said: You have to understand that stuff and accept its reality in order to understand what’s happening in the world. I can take that one step further, because you can’t make sense of the UFO/extraterrestrial question without accepting and taking into account time travel. It’s deeply connected with many of the problems that we currently face. And while talking about the technicalities of time travel and all of the extraordinary stories – this isn’t what I’m planning to do here and it’s not actually what this conference is about – we can’t talk about the future without talking about time. Over and over and over again there are hundreds -- if not tens of thousands -- of accounts from people who have had contact with ETs, saying that there’s a very important time for us all ‘round about now. Some of these – let me call them visitors – some of these visitors have said to the people that they’ve been communicating with: You’re in a lot of trouble. Not them personally -- they’re talking about the human race. Some of them have talked about some pretty unpleasant possibilities that might be in front of us, like warnings. Others have said that there’s the possibility of a golden, wonderful future for the human race. And one of the things that this conference is about; it’s about presenting this is a choice for all of us. One of the things that I’d like to play just before the break, which is happening in five minutes – do we have intention to play the audio? In a moment - only when I say play - I want to play an audio clip that’s a one-minute audio clip. It’s nothing especially secret, but it’s very interesting and important, in my personal view. This is an audio clip of Bill Birnes. This was before he became famous on UFO Hunters. But Bill Birnes is the editor of the American UFO Magazine. He’s done a lot of research for many, many years; was the person who worked with Colonel Philip Corso to write the book The Day After Roswell. He was on the American radio program Coast to Coast AM talking to George Noory and George Noory was asking Bill Birnes about the Roswell crash. What you will hear – I’m not going to translate what he says; this is why I’m giving you the overview here through Ruth – he said that he had spent some time talking with Admiral George Hoover from the Office of Naval Intelligence and George Hoover had told Bill Birnes that the Roswell visitors were time-travelers. The biggest secret wasn’t the high technology that was discovered; the biggest secret wasn’t that these guys came from a future time; the biggest secret was that, in order for this timetravel to be possible, the visitors had to interface with their craft with their consciousness; that the real meaning for us in this was that we were more able and our consciousness was greater, than we had ever been permitted to understand; that the controllers of this planet don’t want you to know how powerful you are, because they’d be in big trouble if everyone knew how powerful they were. That’s why they lie to us all the time to try and convince us that we’re not powerful. We’re just coming up to the break and before the break I just want to play – this is the clip: George Noory: What we don’t [know] about the situation at Roswell is whether these were extraterrestrial, whether they came from a hollow Earth, whether they came from another dimension? We don’t know this, right? Bill Birnes: We don’t. The only clue that I had was from this Naval Officer, he was from the Office of Naval Intelligence – ONI – called George Hoover (we’ve talked about him before), who said that he was the Corso of the Navy [Ed Note: reference to Col. Philip Corso, the author of ‘The Day after Roswell’] and that the military believed, and he said he knew, that these entities were not so much interplanetary, but they were literally timetravelers. And the big secret is that they were us, from the future, and that we and they have the same powers and that was the real fear of the government, that we had the ability to manipulate reality around us. We’ve always had that ability. We just didn’t know how to use it. And if we ever learned how to use it -- and were not ready for it -- we would cause chaos and that was the big secret that the Navy eventually found out. Bill: Thank you. So, one of the things that I want to pass on to my colleagues – first Dan and then David, who’s to be talking about these, and closely connected subjects, all tomorrow – is how powerful we are and what opportunity we have to, in Bill Birnes’s words: to manipulate reality around us. Manipulate is like a strong word to use, but what he’s talking about is creating reality. What reality we want to create and what are the opportunities are before us – this is what this conference is about. So now we’ll take a break and we’ll be back here at half-past three and then I’ll be talking for one more hour, until half past four, and then we have a two-hour break after that. [applause] Bill: All right. Very good. Thank you. I’ve got a couple of announcements here, just minor administrative ones. One is just a reminder that in the little snack bar opposite here, which is timed to be open during the breaks, there actually is hot food there, if you need it or want it. Another little plug here for the girls at the help desk: They are more than happy to help you with any problems that you’ve got,

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including finding a hotel, answering questions about how to find out information and so on. Please use them. And we have a couple of badges that we need to give to Heinrich Schnorf, and somebody who prefers to be known only as Melvin. Okay. So, just a reminder of the timing here: I’m going to talk for an hour and then we have a break until six-thirty. Then, at sixthirty, Dan and Marcie are going to come in and we’re going to be having a conversational presentation. I’m going to kind of be talking with them about their material. I would love to know if Dan and Marcie are in the room. Are they here? No. Okay. They’re still on Los Angeles time. [laughter] Okay. So, in this next hour, I’m going to continue to prepare the ground for the main presentations by the other speakers. Earlier I was talking about the testimony that Dan Burisch has been ordered to report about, which is that the time-traveling future humans were warning of a catastrophe ‘round about now. I think I hadn’t quite finished off telling the story of the significance of the Looking Glass devices. One of the problems in telling these stories is that they don’t go in a straight line. Everything you talk about leads to at least two or three other subjects; therefore, it’s very hard to explore all this ground in a kind of linear way. The significance of the Looking Glasses which, if you remember, I was explaining that they were back-engineered from Anunnaki technology through the Sumerian cylinder seals and was part of the creation of this huge tangle, which has got to do with interlocking and overlapping timelines. One of the things that Dan will talk about this evening is how the Earth and the solar system are entering a region of energetic space. And what happened in the future humans’ history, was that the Looking Glasses amplified the energy from the energetic space and this caused a pole shift. In my personal opinion – and it is a personal opinion – one of the reasons why… it’s almost like there has evolved a modern mythology about the pole shift in 2012. The stories and reports and rumors about this have been surfacing all over the Internet and not all of this is because of what Dan Burisch has said. It’s almost as if there’s a kind of awareness that we all have - maybe unconsciously - that there’s something ‘round about now that’s really quite important. Clif High from Half Past Human, who uses linguistic patterns on the Internet to predict the future, says that he’s able to use this linguistic analysis from the Internet because all humans are psychic, at least to some degree, even if they don’t know it. A lot of people sort of know that there’s something happening ‘round about now; a lot of people feel that these are special times and maybe dangerous times. Sometimes people write to us at Project Camelot to accuse us of being depressing, and we’re forecasting doom, and we’re telling everybody bad news. We’re not doing that; this is not our intention. If you want to travel to a particular destination using a map, you have to know where you are, so that you can make the journey. If you don’t know where you are and you try and figure out a way to get to where you want to go to, you might end up in the wrong place. Any counselors and therapists here among you will know that, if you’re trying to help somebody, the first thing to do is to tell the truth about what’s really happening. A counselor and a therapist helps the person face up to what’s really happening, not because they’re trying to make them depressed, but because they’re actually trying to help them out of the situation. Sometimes that takes quite a lot of courage, but it’s also the first step that’s needed. One of the things that we have been trying to do at Project Camelot – now, I don’t think everything on our site is correct, it can’t be, because some of our witnesses contradict each other – but we think that most of it is correct. What we are reporting on is that there are numerous situations, which we need to be awake to and aware of, in order to handle what’s coming. One of the reasons for this… it’s not just so that you can get your guns and your food and your gold and then just go and hide somewhere, it’s not just about that. That might not even be the smart thing to do, or the best thing to do, but many of you really understand that there’s more going on here, as we say in English, more going on than meets the eye; more going on than we can see. This is spiritual; it’s a spiritual game – and when I use the word game, I’m not implying that anything is trivial – but it’s a game in the sense that, if we play it right, then we can ensure a good outcome. And we may have opponents in this game. Something that’s very clear to me -- and I know that it’s very clear to many of you -- is that, really, this is a spiritual game. I don’t really want to use the word spiritual war because that’s a kind of contradiction; there’s nothing spiritual about a war. One of the things that’s very clear to me is that it’s about – how can I use the words – it’s about resolving spiritual problems. One of the reasons why a lot of us are here -- I would suggest -- on this planet is because this is where a lot of the problems are showing up; this is where a lot of the problems are visible. There are certain things that people can do; some of you may very well be active in this area, which is helping to resolve things at a spiritual level. In order to resolve problems spiritually, you’ve got to know what the problems are -- so one of the things that Project Camelot has been doing is bringing situations to the awareness of people who are able to operate on a spiritual level to help resolve them. So we’re actually operating on multiple levels here. You can go and grab your guns and your food and your gold and go and hide, if you want to, but that’s not actually what we’re recommending. I’m just saying that as a kind of joke, but I want to just use the next 45 minutes to lay out some of the potential situations that we may have in front of us. Before I even start, I want to stress that most of these things haven’t happened yet, and they may not happen at all. One of the things that Henry Deacon told us when we first met him, he said the problems are complex because everything is

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happening at once; there’s a convergence of problems. Some of the problems may be connected with Earth changes and the region of space which the solar system is moving through. One of the things that David Wilcock may talk about tomorrow – he’s done a lot of research in this area – is how global warming has got nothing to do, well, very little to do, with burning fossil fuels. Everything in the solar system is heating up as it moves into this region of space. With this sort of energetic influence, it seems that there also comes an opportunity. One of the things that David will talk about is how the very same influences that may be causing global warming are also assisting with the process of a change in consciousness. I’m saying assisting with the change in consciousness, because I think that our own personal development has got something to do with this as well, but the circumstances may be making this more easy to happen; may be allowing it to happen. So that’s a factor as well; the fact that, as we enter into this region that may present dangers and threats, everyone’s waking up at the same time. One of the things here – this is something else that, personally, I was alerted to by Henry Deacon – was the influence of magnetic pole reversal, or changes in the Earth’s magnetic field. Because, whether we’re aware of it or not, as human beings, our nervous systems and our brains work electrically and, although we can’t see it, we’re sort of swimming around in this electromagnetic ocean all the time. And human beings are very sensitive. If you start messing around with the electromagnetics around a human being, then their behavior and their emotions and their attitude is likely to be affected as well. So I wonder how many people in this room have noticed that every now and then, there are people around them that seem to be behaving irrationally, at least to some small degree; maybe they’re becoming a little more unstable, sometimes; maybe there are more disagreements, more quarrels; maybe some people, who you thought were very, very level-headed, are making some strange errors of judgment. There’s a sort of instability, which is something that Kerry Cassidy and myself started to notice about a year ago; we just noticed a lot of anomalous events with peoples’ behavior. We started thinking there’s something very strange happening here; this is a pattern. And a lot of people have been commenting on this all over the Internet, entirely independently of anything we’ve been saying. This is another factor to take into account, the fact that people might not be responding to situations in the way that they always used to, maybe not as predictably, maybe not as stably. On top of all of that, there is what David Wilcock refers to as “Illuminati politics”, which is a phrase that I love. What that refers to -- that beautiful, little phrase -- it just refers to whatever the agenda of people who consider themselves to be in control of planet Earth, or wanting to be in control of planet Earth, what that agenda might be. Ruth: That was complicated! Bill: That was complicated? Ruth: Yes! Bill: Okay. Illuminati politics refers to the possible agenda of the controllers of the planet, or the people who might want to be the controllers of the planet. One of the things that Henry Deacon alerted us to was a document called the Report From Iron Mountain. Now, a lot of people say that this is a fictional document, but Henry reports how, in an intelligence briefing a number of years ago, he was given this document, ordered to read it and then to report back the next morning. Henry maintains it is not a fictional document. But whether it is or not, it certainly seems to be used as if its contents were a good description of what’s happening. One of the many things that the Report from Iron Mountain talks about – this is a document that dates back to the 1960s – is that there are too many people in the planet. There is an overpopulation problem, and it is possible to argue that this is a real problem. George Green talks about the Global 2000 Report, which also talks about the need to reduce the world’s population in order for the planet, basically, to survive. Anyone whose seen, or seen photographs of, the Georgia Guidestones in America, in Georgia, one of the things that’s on the Georgia Guidestones is a very clear, plain statement that the goal is to have five hundred million people on the planet, which is something like a 90 to 95 percent reduction of the number of people now. There are a couple of things to notice here. One is that it’s easy to believe that this intention could exist; it’s easy to understand how they might want to do it. Anyone whose ever been to Cairo or Lagos or Calcutta or Mexico City, there’s a problem. It’s easy to understand why the controllers of the planet might want to drastically reduce the world’s population. But they haven’t done this yet, or if they’ve tried to do it, then they haven’t succeeded. One of the things that David might talk about tomorrow is how – let me get the wording right – how human beings are naturally resistant to viruses that are designed to wipe them all out; it just isn’t going to happen quite so easily. Now, that doesn’t mean that there might not be plans to do this. Many of you will know that the outbreak of Swine flu from Mexico earlier this year, it almost exactly repeats the pattern of the 1918 Spanish flu. What happened in 1918 was, ‘round about February, there was a very mild form of flu that swept around the world. But it was very mild, people recovered quickly; it was called the three-day flu. A lot of people got flu for three days and then they recovered, and then it was the summertime of 1918. Then there was another wave that started ‘round about October, I think it was, of that year and, by that time, there was – it’s what virologists call a viral mass – there was such a large quantity of this virus around in the population that it enabled it to mutate.

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Now, that’s something that hasn’t happened yet. This morning I looked at an American web site; it’s called flu.gov. Now, we’re not there yet, but there is evidence that the governments are preparing people, either for a real outbreak or for people to be frightened into thinking that there’s a real outbreak, and to run for vaccinations to help them. The problem might not be the flu; it might be the vaccinations. Now, I know that you guys have been following this kind of stuff on the Internet and this not the purpose of this talk, to go into that in detail; but, it describes the kind of thing that they might be planning to do. It’s a very delicate line to draw, because one of the ways that people are controlled is through fear. So it’s very important not to be afraid of this stuff and it’s also very important to know what’s happening. So, once again, we have to be awake and aware of all of this information. Now, a couple of weeks ago, we had a very significant meeting with Dr. Pete Peterson. We talked to him – and when I say “we”, this is Kerry Cassidy, David Wilcock and myself -- we all met with this guy two weeks ago. And we asked him about this problem, this situation, with the timelines and the time-traveling future humans and the warning of a future catastrophe -- and he didn’t know about any of that; or he said he didn’t know about any of it. But what he did say was - and he really was very animated and urgent about this - he said that he was as sure as he personally could be that there really were plans to bring America under martial law. Now, again, we have to draw a fine line here because I don’t want to run the risk of trying to convince you all that this is going to happen, which means that you’re more likely to create it in your own future, but he told us that he was as sure as he could be that there was going to be a collapse of the financial system and a collapse of the infrastructure within America towards the end of this year. The last information we got off of him was that this was going to be ‘round about the beginning of October. Now, if we have any more information about this, and of course, on Project Camelot, we’re going to make this available to you; this is our duty to do that. And that really is all we know about that. But, when David talks tomorrow, he’s going to make a good case for why we shouldn’t necessarily buy into this kind of plan. One of the things that David wants to talk about is that for years, there have been people saying: this is going to happen and that’s going to happen and we’re all in great danger -- and nothing ever really goes wrong. I respect his view about that, but we still have a duty to report what people are telling us. One of the things that, here in Europe, we can be reasonably confident of, is that, if we see something major starting to happen in America, then it will probably affect us in Europe very soon afterwards. If we can make it through to the end of this year -and not a lot has gone wrong -- then I think that we really will be – as Dan Burisch likes to say, he said, the last time and the only time that he’s been on stage at a conference, in Laughlin, Nevada, last year -- he said there’s not going to be a catastrophe, there’s going to be a Golden Age. And this is where we go right back to what we were talking about before, that there is the opportunity for us to create the future that we want. Just because something is planned, it doesn’t mean it’s going to happen. Dan is going to tell us, this evening, about how he and the people who he is working with and reporting to, are as sure as they can be that, what is known as the timeline two catastrophe, the time for that has passed and it has not happened. We’ve already taken that fork in the freeway, that fork in the autobahn, that’s going off in a better direction. Dan will tell us, this evening, how he discovered – or felt he discovered and then checked out – that the actual date of this catastrophe in the future humans’ history was the 28th of March, in this year [2009]. And that day passed and nothing happened. Now, people who refuse to believe that story will say: Well, of course, nothing happened because nothing was ever going to happen. But what I invite you all to do is look at the man who will be here on stage with me this evening and assess for yourself whether he’s telling the truth. So Dan, at the moment, is a very optimistic man. He feels that everything is going in the right direction. Dan says that the dollar is not going to crash. Now, that’s not just his opinion; Dan is also very well connected with people who know what’s going on and who know what the plans are. One of the things that may be happening, when we get information from different sources that don’t seem to all agree, is that we may be hearing one plan from this direction, another plan from that direction, and we don’t actually know which one is going to be the one that rolls out. David Wilcock has something to say in the back row here. David? David: [inaudible] Bill: Absolutely, yes. Ruth: I didn’t get it. Bill: David’s reminded me about something else that Dr. Pete Peterson told us about the end of this year. What Dr. Pete Peterson told us was that President Obama was going to reveal the reality of extraterrestrial contact before the end of this year. He said that he had been told this by people who knew that the television time on the networks had already been booked. The date he told us, if I remember it right, was November the 27th. What he also told us was that it was one of these ritualistically significant dates, numerologically. He said that what Obama was going to talk about was the reality of contact with six different friendly ET races. When we asked him why he used the word friendly, he said: Well, some of them are unfriendly, but most of them are friendly.

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One of the things that Pete Peterson told us -- and this is a turn of phrase that I love to use -- is that, he said he quit working for the U.S. government because he didn’t like feeling that he had to have three baths a day to avoid the feeling of being covered in excrement. Then we asked him why he worked for the U.S. government at all, and he said that a lot of his work had actually been motivated by the fact that they needed help, because some of the ETs were not friendly. Now, I don’t pretend to know all the complexities that are involved here. It’s easy to imagine that, as I was saying about an hour ago, that the American government and the other governments, they’re literally in over their heads. There’s so much going on that they really don’t know how properly to handle this. There’s a huge amount of evidence that the Americans have been spending trillions of dollars building underground bases ever since the end of the Second World War. This is an almost unimaginably expensive, long-term construction project. And we’re not even talking about the cost of the secret space program. One of the things that Pete Peterson told us was that the Aurora has now been retired from active use – the Aurora Spaceplane. It’s one of these planes that’s been rumored to exist for a long time, but they’ve retired it now. They’ve got better stuff than that. They have superluminal craft – meaning craft that can travel faster than the speed of light. We heard exactly the same story from our witness, Jake Simpson, who we met in October, last year. Jake Simpson has confirmed everything which I have said so far today. Then, if we consider the cost of these programs, then we wonder where all the money has gone. Let me just present that as a possible answer to the question of where all the money has gone. What’s interesting about the underground bases scenario – and the weekend before last, we talked to Pete Peterson -- he called them underground cities. He says he’s been in them. Bill Deagle also reports having been in these underground cities. Jake Simpson told us how there is an underground shuttle system that actually connected North America to Australia, under the Pacific Ocean. Why would they do this? Why would they build these facilities? Jake Simpson told us that it was standard defensive military thinking, because they’ve been aware of a coming problem ever since the Second World War, and that the military thinking, basically, was that, if there are going to be big problems on this planet, then they should dig in. This is what the military do when they’re in a war situation; they dig in. [laughter] Jake Simpson told us some extraordinary information. He said that this is a cyclical phenomena; it occurs in cycles, this energetic space, which the Earth is going through. It’s the same series of problems that was responsible for what nearly a hundred cultures on this planet refer to as The Great Flood, which wiped out Atlantis, which was reported by the great historian, Plato, who never got anything wrong. Jake Simpson told us that in some of these military installations, when they had been excavating the bases, they had found the existence of older bases that were not built by us. We asked Dan Burisch about this story; he confirmed it. He said: Yeah. He said: Not only can I confirm that but I can tell you where it happened. He said: It was in Norway. Or was it – oh, God, I can’t remember – it was either Norway or Sweden, forgive me. I’ll find out. In fact, I think he said Scandinavia, which is why I can’t remember. [laughter] He said there was a really bizarre situation that had occurred when a particular machine had been abandoned – because this is sometimes what they do, they build these big tunnels with these machines, and then they just leave them because they can’t take them out again – and they went to another location and then they found the same machine in a different place but it wasn’t their machine. It was an almost identical machine, but it was thousands of years old. What Jake said, he said: Yes. He said: We probably have handled this problem, but you’ve got to appreciate that it’s military thinking to be “safe”. It’s military thinkingto still have the insurance, even though they think that we’re safe. So they haven’t abandoned their bases; they’re still down there. This is the kind of thing that Dan is going to be talking about this evening; this is the subject. The essence of it is that it’s a little bit like we’re in a movie, and you imagine a long movie with a lot of action in it that’s, maybe, three hours long. And we’re about half an hour before the end when things are getting really exciting. We don’t know how it’s going to end, but it’s a great movie. It really couldn’t be more interesting. We’re in this movie. To change the metaphor, it’s like a virtualreality game. This is a spiritual game and this reality is a sort of illusion, as the Buddhists would say, but it definitely feels real. If we continue to talk about movies, we can talk about the movie The Matrix, when this may all be an illusion, in a sense, but it still feels very real and you can still get hurt in it. So, though it’s a game, there’s nothing trivial about it. If we have children and people that we care about and, if we care about this beautiful planet, then we have to take it seriously. But the theme of this conference is that this is the kind of virtual reality game that, by understanding that it’s a virtual reality game, we have the chance to create the outcome that we want. And have as much fun as possible while we’re doing it. So, this brings us right back – and here I’m going to finish – to what George Green was saying in his little booklet Messages For The Ground Crew. He was told that it’s nearly too late. But the most important word in that sentence is “nearly”. All the best movies have something that’s “nearly” going to happen and then it doesn’t happen. I’m a mountaineer, and the best climbs I ever made were the ones where I nearly fell, but I didn’t. Those of you who have a loving

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relationship may know that some of the best times are when your partner nearly left you, but they didn’t. [laughter] Because, after that, you’ve got an opportunity to figure out how to make it all work out much better after that. So, as a collective Ground Crew – and it’s not like the Ground Crew of different countries, this is just the Swiss Ground Crew and we say this as a bit of a joke – but we’re all the Ground Crew. It’s possible fifteen percent of the human race is a ground crew, really. What we urge you to do – and when I say we, I’m talking about the Swiss Ground Crew, and also speaking on behalf of Kerry Cassidy and myself, in Project Camelot. Some people write to us and they say: What can I do? What shall I do? And we say: Do what you can. Do something. Just START doing something. When Kerry Cassidy and I picked up this little consumer-grade camcorder and started talking to anyone who was willing to talk to us three years ago, we never imagined that the snowball could have become this big. If you dare to believe that things are possible, then anything is possible. Your ability to make things happen is only limited by what you believe. So do what you can. Talk to people. Collect people together. Form groups and communities. Keep people informed. Do everything you can do to wake people up, to support them in a transitional process of becoming more Awake and Aware, and to help them realize that there is a New World - If They Can Take It. Thank you. [applause]

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Project Camelot: Dr. Dan Burisch / Dr. Marci McDowell Zürich Workshop
Zürich, Switzerland, 10 July 2009
center, the center of a great mass of people that has no specific center aside from, hopefully, love. You’re the center of all of this, not we. We were simply... well, we drew that straw to do what we’re doing. And what we would like to say to you, the individuals who courageously came up to the stage, is: Wonderful. Thank you. And to those that we promised that we would put your letters on the front of Eagles Disobey, we will when we get home. We’ll get them scanned in and we’ll get them up as-is, no changes to them. You have a right to have your say, and that’s why Eagles Disobey exists. [Ed note: Normally the transcripts that had any parts in them that had been difficult for the transcribers to hear were put in “audibles” in square brackets in red for Bill Ryan to attend to, fix, then he’d post the transcript; however, due to unexpected interruptions in the normal working process in Project Camelot, this normal process was not able to proceed forward, so the audibles were left in the square brackets.] Before the Workshop begins: DAN BURISCH (DB): I could just keep talking and blabbering on for hours and hours and hours about how the immune system functions. That’s not our purpose here today. There’s something larger to our purpose here. But what we found out was this: We found out that somewhere in the back of the room there was a small group of individuals who... varied belief system. This belief system comes from another nation-state, from what we’re hearing. We’ve heard that this happened from two separate individuals. One individual told us about it who lives here in Switzerland, and another individual told us about it who lives in France, and they were independent pieces of information which came to us. AND WE SAID: Oh my God, a belief system. We were talking primarily about the science of the issues, not a belief system. This would be like a Christian telling a Muslim that they’re wrong or a Muslim telling a Christian. That may be the way that it was perceived, and it was never intended that way. We are speaking only for the science of the issue. And what we’d just like to say to those individuals, even to those... what word did they use? “Bullshit,” did I hear? [MANY VOICES]: Oh yes. [and other inaudible responses] DB: Because those individuals who courageously stayed – and this is why we invited people up onto the stage – you’re the To those individuals who “labeled,” acted fearful, acted angry, God bless you, and God bless them. God bless you and your belief system and we hope you have long and happy and healthy lives. What would you. . . Oh, oh, I tell everybody we have no real plans here this morning. This is up to you. AUDIENCE MEMBER (AM): A free-form forum. DB: What is behind us here is something which has never been broadcast to the people of Earth before. [side talk with audio engineer] AUDIO ENGINEER: We are streaming, yes. It’s live. We’re all on the air. [background voices discussing phone call] We’re just supporting it to include the people here... DB: [voices overtalking] All right, let’s leave this for a few moments to give the rest of the people who are intending on arriving... Maybe those present who know the individuals who are arriving can help us, we plead, to pass on the information that we’ve already provided, our feelings about these issues. We’d be grateful to you all. [background voices] GROUND CREW MEMBER: Ruth wants to have a couple of minutes to work around 10:00 to work with … DB: Sure, to speak with these individuals? RUTH: Yes. DB: Oh sure. Very fine, very fine. RUTH: Yes. DB: We’ll wait until you’re concluded with that, then we’ll continue speaking.

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MARCIA McDOWELL (MMcD): We didn’t realize that it wasn’t 10:00 o’clock yet, so... DB: I realized. I just started talking. [laughter] MMcD: No, I think she wants to work with all of us. MMcD: So we’re going to hold back just a little bit because there are still some people coming, and we want to make sure everybody gets in and gets seated. So bear with us a little bit. It’s going to go... DB: To those looking at my strange driver’s license, please return it, [laughter] because even though I don’t drive that much in Las Vegas, Marcia does most of the driving... MMcD: We really need it. AUDIO ENGINEER: This is an open mike setup. DB: Yeah. MMcD: So please give it back. [laughs] DB: So we’re going to wait just a few minutes and then Ruth, I understand, wishes to speak with everyone here. And to those listening on the Internet, Hi. Ah... we’ll just... MMcD: We’ll just kind of pause it. DB: All right. [background conversation, audience chatter] Everyone is going to hear a short audio clip with some images attached to it – it was easier to do it in Windows Movie format than bring an AVI [Audio Video Interleave, multimedia format by Microsoft] in here – from the morning of March 28 with Marcia actually speaking to the group the morning that the T2 date arrived. You’re gonna hear some anger at her because we had some representatives of the Illumes present, and specifically... AM: Illumes? DB: The Illuminati ...specifically individuals who had added my name to the treaty system that ultimately resulted in what you all heard last night. So there was some anger that you will hear in her voice. Please understand that this was anger toward them, not anger toward anyone else. MMcD: I haven’t told to... even if I have to... [inaudible] DB: Drag me and stop me? And did you say strangle? MMcD: No manually, if I have to stop you. We’re going to have a five-minute, and then a one-minute warning for tape change. A tape change takes about 30 to 40 seconds, so if I had to like drag you and stop you from speaking, I would have to do something drastic. DB: What happens if you’re speaking when this happens? Moses supposes that roses are roses, right? MMcD: Moses supposes erroneously. RUTH: We are all very much looking forward to this workshop... I would like to take two minutes just to get back to yourselves, back to your energetic flow in your body. Sometimes we get so much into our minds and so much into ideas and so much into emotions that we get drawn away. So let’s take a minute to get back in some kind of place, and I want to give you a sound that might help you to come back. [hits gong type of instrument which makes long reverberating sound; audience quiets down] I always like to connect myself with my Higher Self, with heaven, in a way, and let some energy flow from the third eye, to the toes, to the floor, and let all the heaviness run out into the ground so that my spirit can take over, that my Higher Self can take over because this includes the body and we are all friends up there. [silence for a moment] Thank you very much. Enjoy the workshop with Dan and Marcia. [rings gong softly once again] DB: Thank you. All right. The reason why this driver’s license was being passed around while some of you were coming in, is I had asked what the difference was between... MMcD: Stand up. They can’t see you. DB: They can see... You mean the cameras. Well. MMcD: I was getting a signal from the back. DB: We will just move this over here. It’s only for a couple of hours to stand. I had asked what the difference was between my personal driver’s license and the driver’s license of the Illuminati. One individual correctly indicated: The difference is they don’t have them. That kind of filth is driven around in limousines. AM: If you’re going to give us your ID, just pass your credit card and... [laughter] DB: You assume I have a bank account, dude? Speak to wife; she handles money. [laughter] Workshop begins: DB: All right. Do you want to have a seat here? MMcD: Yes, I think I will. Thank you. DB: Yeah, just move it aside. WOMAN FROM AUDIENCE: ...but I can speak out loud? AM: You’re going to stop her? [laughter / audience banter] DB: Should we step out while... I think it’d be...

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I had also indicated, at the risk of restating a few things which... [responding to Marcia] Yes, I’m going to get to the phone call. I’m not psychic, but yes, I’m going to get to the phone call. At the risk of re-stating a couple of things that you’ve already heard, we understand that there was a group of individuals who had a “belief system” present yesterday, and none of us, especially Marcia and myself, wish to offend anyone who was carrying a belief system reference the existence of bacteria, viruses, fungi, things like that. We were speaking from a scientific point of view, from the evidence that we know to be true, and we’re not wishing to collide at all with anyone’s belief system. Yet we must stand with what we know to be true as well, and we can always find common ground with one another. The common ground is always love. Yesterday, after the rather exciting evening that we had, Marcia and I were notified by one of our team members that a satellite call arrived through a sat-phone from one of our team members here in Zurich. We’ve got some of the Eagles team here in Zurich. I can actually show you... As long as they’re not placed on film whatsoever, maybe near the end, I will show you what some of our team members actually look like. Some of you may have seen our former Forum. In the Eagles team they use such avatars as Mongrel and Owl and Caspa and Camel Duster. Everybody knows about the Mongrel. [makes an animal noise] [laughter] When you see what this very strange and very loving man looks like, you’ll probably laugh again. But we received a satellite call from the former head of the Consistory of the Majestic. Yes, at least two to three of the former twelve were listening yesterday, and listening to you all. MMcD: Everybody. DB: I hadn’t heard this sound in his voice. [there is a disturbance in the room] Now we’re being interrupted! Now come on in, come on in. I can’t take such interruptions! [laughter] I hadn’t heard this kind of a crackling, this kind of a shaken sound in his voice since the 1990s. Of course, he’s retired back into industry now from government service, after the last administration departed. Well, he was already out and then he left. He was very afraid for Marcia and I because he was only hearing audio feed, and everyone knows that’s lovely, just the audio feed. We’ve asked Bill, by the way: Please rush the entire video out so that everybody can see everything in context. And he said he would do the best that he could. But he was very worried specifically for me, and we told him: Look, as we passed the phone back and forth, you sent us out here. Had you not given these orders... The original purpose of my debriefing was for archival purposes, Marcia’s private archive. DB: They had asked Marcia and myself for some suggestions for names, and that biological term, that term actually came from me, and it was adopted as such. Now, this statement which just went live over the Internet is now out there forever, and it will cause serious military-industrial complex problems within the shadow government, even in our own country. But, again, you have the right to know. An individual yelled out last night: Tell us all you know. MMcD: That’s a little difficult. [laughter] DB: I can tell you as we would proceed over the years, everything that I know and I understand and that I’ve been educated to understand... save those future issues that it’s truly my conviction, my heart, that should remain silent, those issues about a potential future, because I truly believe and I hope you all believe this as well, that we’re going to write our own future together. It’s ours to take. That’s the birthright that I was speaking about yesterday. MMcD: But the upshot to this conversation, the upshot to this conversation was that there was a question of whether people were capable of handling Disclosure. MMcD: I had intended to simply record for posterity as much as possible about Dan’s experiences so that if someday we needed them as a reference, they would be available. That was the whole purpose, the sole purpose, of trying to archive so much of his experience. Then it became more. DB: These days, these conferences, were never in consideration, never a thought of mine. I just wanted, and continue... and although I love every one of you... but I would want to continue just doing the research that we’re doing, and to back-engineer some of the devices that we spoke about. In the Lotus research that you will see, some of the images weren’t shown in any other places such as maybe even CalTech. [brief interruption and chatter as new people come in; new camera set up] In any case, I told him: You sent us out here and you needed to expect that the people would rightfully and rightly express themselves to us. After a few more minutes of conversation and some tears between him and I, I told him to listen to the peoples’ voices that he heard and to make sure that the videos which were coming out of this conference were forwarded to the group which took over after Majestic. [to Marcia] Should we just go ahead and name them? Name it? The group which took over... and this is going to be a very big problem, because this is streaming out live; it’s being maintained for public record. The new group which took over after Majestic is named Scion, S-C-I-O-N (not S-I-O-N as in the Priory of Sion) [laughter]... S-C-I-O-N, which means a transplant, such as when you would transplant a shoot of a tree onto another tree, it’s called a scion. It’s a biological term. MMcD: It’s a name alike but it is a spelling difference.

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DB: Mm, hm. MMcD: That’s why essentially we were sent out with the orders we were sent out with. I think it was a testing of the water. We said, we told them... DB: Yes. MMcD: ...that: These people can take it. DB: They can handle this. MMcD: They can handle this. They’re strong, they’re powerful, they’re not afraid. They’re not afraid to get like that with us. DB: No. MMcD: And we’re not afraid to talk. These people can take this. So take that back to the powers, the new group, and say: “Think about this and make sure you make the right decision. These people can handle this.” DB: I got to tell you, we, we... [indicating audience member should speak] Yeah, please... AM: I would like to know the background of the reason why Majestic has sent you out for this Disclosure. That is normally not in their politics at this time. Is that correct? DB: No, no, it is not. This argument, which culminated in 2002 inside of The Committee of the Majority, which was a cover committee over the Majestic, resulted in the Majestic literally fraying and falling apart. The reason that we were sent out is because Looking Glass data actually showed that a rise of consciousness in the world’s population prior and during this period of transition could actually benefit in our survival during it. So that’s why we say we’re not the center of this, you are. MMcD: It’s everybody. DB: It’s everybody who is, in my humble conviction and understanding, just saving the world. MMcD: [to audience member] Yes? MMcD: [inaudible] AM: Isn’t it more to the point that they’re fearful of not whether people take it, but more for their own safety? DB: Oh, absolutely they are! MMcD: Yeah. DB: Absolutely they are. I have rudely called them gutless before, and spineless, and have been in text, and in record, and even in interviews, labeling them. MMcD: Because they have a… [unclear]. They dumped … DB: They risked everything for themselves. Even though they’re not willing to come out of the hiding places, they risked everything for themselves that we might foment even greater problems for them. I know things about them, so does Marcia. We know dates, times, and meetings, where they met with whom in Washington D.C., account numbers, PIN numbers. We haven’t used them yet, [laughter] but Marcia has threatened once or twice. Account numbers, PIN numbers, also contract numbers, and these are contracts into places such as the Defense Department of DB: They still were. They still were as of last night when we received the telephone call. And one of the things which provoked a little spat between him and myself is I asked him why he wasn’t here. [laughter] I mean, it’s not like he’s short on money. He didn’t need to drive. He didn’t need to fly himself here. He had one of the VAH [searched terms: this could reference to heavy attack squadron planes] Well, I don’t want to... I think we all know who I’m talking about here. I have placed his name in affidavit under penalty of perjury and I do have a personal relationship with the man, a close personal relationship, but when push comes to shove we have to do what is right, each of us. MMcD: He knew the risks when he sent us out here. DB: It was his choice to pick the two, the one they have the orders read to, and initially the two to watch over me, as it was put, while the back-channel stuff was going on, while we were getting closer and closer to one another to be permanently with one another. This is something that he risked, and, ultimately, he and the last group of twelve risked. So they get what they get now, and I consider it fortunate to have been picked, though, for that. I really do. Sometimes it’s hard, but sometimes life is hard. It’s hard on all of you; it’s hard on us too. MMcD: But you’re right when you say they ran away. DB: Yes. MMcD: They do not want to take this heat. They do not want to be held accountable and responsible. So they run away and they’re protecting, yeah. DB: [to audience member dressed in purple] Yes, they are. Yes, Sir... in purple. AM: What was the risk that he took? DB: The risk that he took was that we might vary from the orders, and we might also be a little more forthcoming with you all, which is what has been happening, than what they actually anticipated. Now, I’ve gone on and on and on, and when I start speaking of the official… [unclear] had the tie on and all of that garbage... Like I say, this is us.

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the United States. And just the mentioning of the name is going to be a big enough problem for them. Ah well, like I said, they took the risk. MMcD: Why do you think some of the government and power echelon people love us so much? DB: After 20 years of working with them, I’m no longer a believer. I stopped being a believer the day that they raised the shade in the gallery and I saw Chi'el'ah [“Chi’el’ah” is the official spelling of this name for the JRod, from previous Burisch interviews] for the first time. My world changed, my universe changed. It impacted me so profoundly I had a hard time remaining standing up. [to audience member] Yes, Sir. AM: How is the U.S. government coping with the fact that they can’t use the Looking Glass anymore to fix appointments to, like for instance, presidency like what it has been happening in Australia... [inaudible]... to the... [inaudible]... and part of the decision in regard to... [inaudible]... DB: There are a number of governments across the Earth that are shaken at the moment because they feel the power structure slipping away and slipping into the hands of the people. And so be it, and good for us. Good for us, finally good for us. They had worked for decades with the Looking Glass technology and became accustomed to it as one would become accustomed to taking a shot of heroin. Now that that is no longer in their hands, they’re feeling the withdrawals. Well, my opinion is let them feel the withdrawals like we have to feel every day having to go to work and struggle in our lives. There’s no sympathy from us on that. [applause] I was very ginger while sitting on the stage talking about the components to the Looking Glass in that we have heard – that’s true – we have heard that the components not only were broken up, but separated from one another. But certain components, meaning the projection device, have been spirited away. Well, not only was the projection device spirited away, so was all the CAD [Computer-Aided Design] drawings and all of the general schematics for the devices. They don’t have them anymore. [audience member question, inaudible] DB: Yes, sir. Where they are? I love all of you. [audience laughter] I really do. I really do. [long pause] I don’t officially know. You’re hearing that word? I don’t officially know. They can go through their withdrawals and just have to come back to reality with the rest of us. [to audience member] Yes? AM: I know that you said that there was like 50-some devices, if I understand. DB: There were several.

AM: Yes. So you’re talking about every... each of them? DB: Yes. See, what happened is, they were broken into three separate pieces and then combined together by components such as A, B, and C. All the A’s were placed together, all the B’s, and all the C’s. Well, they lost one of those components. We know that there are individuals right now trying to back-engineer that extra component because they’re panicking inside. I’m not talking about the U.S. government panicking, I’m talking about the governments, all of the governments, who have been involved in this technology and who are addicted to it. AM: Can I have a second question? DB: Well, you can ask all you want. AM: I don’t want to press you or something, but... DB: Press me? AM: The question is, who can steal such a thing? Maybe I don’t understand, you know, who can steal such a thing. I know a couple of guys who steal bicycles, but... [laughter] DB: I didn’t know you were [inaudible]... Blame it on Fulcanelli! Blame it on Fulcanelli. [Ed. note: 19th century alchemist] MMcD: Okay, how did the Q-94 document get spirited into my hands? DB: Mm hm. That document, ladies and gentlemen, is quite real. It is a real draft document with all the errors that Steven and myself – Steven Mostow, the late Steven Mostow – and myself could type that day next to the clerk’s office. I actually put a “CMD” for Commander instead of “CDR” in it because I knew that it would irritate the clerk who was typing it. She was very mean to us. These were the days that we were actually using typewriters to type our draft reports. We’d have to pass the paperwork underneath a window, such as like a bank window, and what she would do, when she would get done retyping our reports back and putting signature blocks on them, is she would shoot the papers back and they would drop on the floor because she did not like us. So we did everything we could just to be irritable back at her. It was an inside thing that was going on at S4.

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The clerk’s office was located approximately in back of where the nurse’s office was located that Bob Lazar actually saw. So that’s where the actual typing of this document occurred. It was leaked out by Steven, who’s no longer alive – and probably as a result of that. MMcD: It came to me in a form that was very, very difficult to manage because it was an extremely poor version. It was gray and black, not black and white. It was horrible, gray and black, and it was in reverse, so the only way to see it... It was like it had been processed incorrectly. DB: He shoved it through the copy machine in the clerk’s office, but how he got it out of S4, I have no clue. I’m going to tell you something. Things generally could not be sneaked out of that facility. That was a highly guarded facility. We had what was called “Pan-and-Scan”. We would have to pan in, meaning weight, and have our irises, both of them, scanned before we could move from position to position. If we went to the rest room and lost weight because of voiding, we would have to re-Pan-and-Scan so that we would be identifiable by our weight and our iris. So those people that say: Well, this person may have sneaked a heavy element out of S4? Sorry. It didn’t happen. That didn’t happen. Paperwork? Possibly via a courier... possibly via a courier. That’s the only thing I’ve been able to guess from it. I never got a chance to ask him before he crashed with, I believe, another family member and some friends in his aircraft. They just mysteriously went down. My other friend from up there, Bob, Robert Schwartz, he was hacked to death, as I understand, by a boyfriend of his daughter. MMcD: With a sword. DB: Nobody understands why the boyfriend went kind of strange. MMcD: He was hacked to death. DB: He’s gone as well. There are two original members of the Aquarius team that are alive. That is myself and the man that I was speaking to on the phone last night, on the satellite phone. Everyone else is dead. [to audience member] Yes, Sir. AM: In your experience… [unclear] the P45s … [inaudible]… do you think… [inaudible] are they humans or not? DB: Were they humans? AM: No. Did they use… [inaudible] present-day humans? MMcD: You mean to the agreements? AM: Agreements. DB: The P52s were, to the best of my knowledge. The P45s violate any agreement that they can possibly get away with violating. They had an extremely, almost a fascist, intent about them. They didn’t care about the treaties, although they knew that they had to comply with them to a certain extent, and if they could get away with something they did, and do. I’m hoping at this time that the separation of the Timelines has been such that they no longer have contact with us. AM: I was going to ask that. Concerning the separation of the Timelines, does that mean that the Orions and the J-Rods will no longer visit us? DB: Yes, as I understand. However, I am in direct possession of information to suggest that they are still on orbit and also near our Moon for the purpose of removing heirlooms. Now, I had to suck this up pretty hard last night when David... he apologized to me actually, after. When we were sitting out here drinking, starting to drink this wonderful beer, [Ed note: David does not drink any sort of alcohol and has not done so for 13 or 14 years now, so it was Dan and possibly others who were enjoying drinks.] he apologized to me. HE SAID: I’m so sorry for putting you on the spot. I SAID: Why? I put you on the spot, because no one knew that he had suffered from swine flu. But it was a useful example at the time because we were talking about something that’s so important to all of us, and that’s our health. And so, I know he’s a giving, and a loving, and a wonderful and very bright man, and so I took that chance at that moment that his heart would extend in that direction, and it did. And then he took that same chance back at us. MMcD: Yes. DB: The reality of what was going on, if you’d like to know... When I was onboard in ’73, after I’d been abducted in Mae Boyar Park and came into contact with the former MJ1’s son who passed away onboard, that son was already onboard as a collateral heirloom – collateral, as in: I want collateral for a loan. The P45s took collateral for the loan to agree to the treaties. Well, that same collateral... After I accepted the final orders, I was informed that same collateral was then in place for me, which meant that my lovely six-year-old daughter would likely have been taken as collateral and not returned. The only way... It was not like... It was slightly misstated last night for me “to get out of Majestic”. No. It was for me to keep them here. I did what I had to do because the P45 J-Rods are extremely legalistic. They want the letter of the law rather than the spirit of the law, and it was required that anyone who had care, custody and control, and was called senior echelon... As soon as those final orders arrived, I was called senior echelon, the same as a Jnumber again; the same as one of the Twelve again. As soon as I accepted those orders, I was part of a treaty codicil, a separate portion of the treaty, of which I was unaware until I was informed of that.

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So when it came time for the divorce issue to proceed with the former wife, there was also a decision and a near-panic between Marcia and myself to get the divorce done before June 1st. Had that not been done before June 1st, I would have been in care, custody and control of those two young ladies, and one of them would not be here now. She would have been taken in the middle of the night and there would have been nothing that her mom could have done about it – in the same way that I was taken in the middle of the night on October 15th, with a full houseful of mature ladies and children, and no one heard a thing and all of my property was removed. MMcD: Exactly. DB: There was a group which was brought in called the “Ghost Riders.” They do not make sound while they work. That is their modus operandi. MMcD: I brought them in. DB: She brought them in to have me removed in safety. But there are other units like them and they would have come in and probably enforced the treaty issues for the J-Rods.,. and the child, this beautiful little child that I called Little Troll – she stands about this tall and she reminds me of a little troll – she would have been taken in the middle of the night. So what was I supposed to do? When you love someone, you protect them. AM: These “Ghost Riders,” are they present day humans? MMcD: Yes. DB: Yes. Oh yes. They’re operatives. MMcD: They’re a crack team. DB: Yeah. They’re operatives. DB: I’m looking for something here. MMcD: They’re absolutely a crack team. I brought them in on the project because I needed the best, the very best I could find, so I pulled some strings and I asked for some agents. I had Archie, who is loving and loyal toward us, just because they happened to have worked with Dan and built great friendships and become very fond of us all. Plus other Majestic operatives who were very skilled; they took control of the entrances and exits of the locations. DB: Mongrel and Owl were the two who actually removed me from the apartment. And if you know the names Mongrel and Owl – Steven and Ryan – they were the ones that actually came in. It was Steven who put his arms around me and told me I would be fine. They came in looking like The Borg. They had their night vision on and they had weapons out, for fear that members of the Illuminati were actually inside of the apartment and would have tried to hold me. They didn’t know for sure. They weren’t able to watch the apartment that well for fear of being seen themselves, so it was a situation of a surveillance problem that was going on at the same time. So they came in with full armor on, automatic weapons out, and extracted me. In silence, relative silence. MMcD: ...to save them. What are you doing? DB: I was looking for the card from Grandma and Grandpa but I’m not finding it. That’s fine. Is it in here? No. Here? No. AM: So these “Ghost Riders,” are they… [inaudible] cloaking? MMcD: Oh no, they’re just trained. DB: No, they’re trained: MMcD: Talented, and experienced at doing what they do. DB: After this experience... [digression] By the way, we went up to one of the nature parks near the Alps on the first day in. We have some Swiss patches. I’ve had now a Los Angeles Angels baseball hat on since I was a little boy. In fact, I had one on the day I was abducted... a different style “A” at the time, but nevertheless it’s the same MMcD: [talking at the same time as Dan] Yeah. They very quietly took him into a van. Then the “Ghost Riders” came in, and in absolute silence removed personal property, extraordinary amounts of personal property. DB: The 20-year-old, who was the two-year-old child of Debra when I married Debra, she actually came out into, as I understand, through the living room and into the kitchen wearing a nightie, got herself something to drink, something like a CocaCola or whatever, and the “Ghost Riders” were in the living room at the time and she never once saw them or heard them. And, she’s a pretty perceptive young lady. MMcD: Fifteen feet away. DB: Yes. Yeah. They’re very good at what they do, and I was happy that most of the property was removed because most of the property that I had in there was all of the Lotus data. MMcD: The Lotus research data – the CDs, and the background data, the tapes... DB: We’ve got hundreds of them. MMcD: There are hundreds, thousands of images that had been produced over the research. Plus items of personal property that had been passed to Dan through his family members. DB: My important hat. MMcD: His hat... DB: By the way... MMcD: His grandfather’s camera. Things like this that are irreplaceable were spirited out and placed was under lock and key in various locations, under various vaults...

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team. They were called the California Angels at the time. But I have never had anything aside from an angel in the center of it because I do believe in angels. MMcD: I think it’s because the angels believe in you. [laughter] DB: I’d appreciate that! Well, we got some patches. But after this experience with you all... for my entire life I’ve never placed anything except my name inside my cap, and this angel on it. I’m going to put the Swiss patch on my hat. AM: Atta boy, Danny! [audience comments/ laughter] DB: Yes. MMcD: Oh!!! [audience member produces an LA Angels hat] DB: Oh my, that looks like a block “A”. AM: It is a block “A”. DB: May I? Thank you. [audience laughter] Would you like to trade? [more audience laughter] AM: Sure. DB: You’ll trade? AM: Yeah, I don’t mind. DB: Thank you. See, I got the block “A”. [applause] Thank you! I got the better deal out of this, you see, because the style of the “A” in 1973 was approximately this same style... you see little picks-out, little stylized picks-out, on the side of the “A” for the more recent baseball caps. So this will be my new baseball cap. MMcD: What a treasure! Thank you. DB: Yes, thank you very much. We may have to place a sizer in it. Let’s see here. Well, why don’t I wear it like this [turns hat sideways; laughter] we’ll place a sizer in it. But this will be my new hat. Thank you. Thank you very much. AM: I bought it last week. MMcD: It’s the style of the “A” that’s so important. AM: I know. MMcD: Yes. AM: It was Burisch? AM: That’s why I [inaudible] MMcD: You don’t mind, really? AM: It says “fifty”. AM: So it was nothing to do with the legality... MMcD: It does? It does! DB: Yes, it was Burisch and she had the name Burisch. However the wife and myself had the name Crain, so I changed the name over to Burisch to make it easier on Tiffany. DB: I believe I already have. Let me see if the name... Now, you’ll probably see a very worn name Crain here. That’s actually my family name. Marcia and I are going to be legally returning to my first original name, hopefully within the next few months, so I will again be known as Danny B. Crain, my original name. AM: Why did you adopt the name Burisch? DB: Tiffany, the now 20-year-old, at the time was just going to be starting school. And so in 1995, I changed over to the name Burisch because her biological father obviously was not present. And what we did not want to do – because Deborah at that time was carrying the name Crain; it was Deborah K. Crain at the time – we did not want her to have questions asked her at school. So what we did, because she was carrying the name Burisch... AM: Deborah was you daughter? DB: No. Deborah was my wife. Tiffany was my daughter. Tiffany continued to carry the name Burisch at the insistence of her grandmother and her grandfather. Her grandfather has now passed away. Her grandmother is still living. AM: That’s my age. AM2: I got one in ’59 and that’s written inside as well. MMcD: It is! It is. DB: Wonderful. Would you sign this for us? MMcD: Would you sign this? DB: For us, please? So I can carry your name in this? I won’t tell anybody if you don’t want it known or anything like that. If you’d just... AM: Would you sign mine?

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DB: No, it was totally personal. It was a totally personal decision. [returning to hat topic] Thank you very much for the honor. Do you want me to place anymore than that in it? AM: It’s not a problem. DB: All right. AM: Yeah. DB: Thank you very much. I got the better trade! I got the better trade. [laughter] AM: [inaudible] I’d like to ask you... DB: Yes, sir. AM: ...the difference in the races, between the Orions and the JRods... DB: Yes. AM: By the way, as an aside, how did the name J-Rod come into use? DB: The name J-Rod was originated through communications between multiple J-Rods and a unit called Sigma. This was the communications and linguistics unit which was working for the Majestic. What he did is he identified himself as a number. And how he did that is he picked the J, which is the tenth letter in the English alphabet... They know what the J looks like! Well, what do you want me to do with this? [Marcia draws out a “J” and a horizontal rod to describe the “J-Rod” name.]They picked the tenth letter in the English alphabet, which is J. AM: So it was Ten or something. DB: That was Ten. And he pointed toward an inertial bar symbol which was also in the teleprompter system in the Clean Sphere, which looked like a rod or an inertial bar. To him that meant “Five” because it was a combination involving the Mayan number system. So Ten and Five was 15. The name J-Rod simply means 15. He identified himself as coming from a base, a temporary base, 15 light-years from Earth. That is the origin of the name J-Rod. AM: I like to ask a question about the Looking Glass. Is there an explanation why the Looking Glass could not see beyond 2012? Because there was... DB: It did. AM: Was it with time portals? There was something written... DB: No, there were views that went up for several hundred years past 2012. AM: David said it turned white. Let me explain something here for a moment, something that the listeners on the Internet may want to hear as well. We had mentioned about the INRI Cross of Hendaye*. In code, cross, should we pass... Now, the first two numbers for IN just so happen to add up to 60, which was the number of years that Majestic existed, leading us toward what was called the SHAR. That was 1510 as I understand, and then 200 and another 10... INRI, or 10 and 50 and then 210. [Ed. Note: The Great Cross of Hendaye is a stone cross located on the town square of Hendaye, in the Pyrénées-Atlantiques, in southwestern France. The cross is carved with alchemical symbols that occultists find to contain encrypted information on a future global catastrophe. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Cross_of_Hendaye] AM: That’s multiplication… [unclear]? DB: Sure. AM: That is the Kabbalistic approach that let us have an associated... DB: That’s Gematria. AM: Okay. But what I know is that in the Hebrew alphabet there are no vowels. DB: No...? AMs [many voices]: Vowels, vowels. DB: The Niqqud is a vowel system added to that. AM: Okay. Thank you. AM2: Can I ask you a question? DB: I’m not a linguist though, please... [to audience member] Sure. AM2: [inaudible] I want to know because the disaster is supposed to have happened right about now in the Timeline... Timeline One? DB: Yes. Well, that would have been what we nicknamed Timeline Two. AM2: Okay. DB: And it was a very dark nickname but it was a nickname nonetheless. AM2: So we’re now on Timeline One, are we? DB: That the Looking Glass turned white? AM: Yeah. DB: Maybe he’s talking about the Orion “Cube” because there were some issues involving the Orion Cube.

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DB: I’m not sure what we’re on right now. AM2: Okay. It doesn’t really matter how we designate it. DB: Right and that’s the whole point. AM: [inaudible] …and then the Orions were supposed to have left the Earth first and then... DB: Yes. Several thousand years after the disaster, yes. AM: There’s something that doesn’t quite stack up here. First of all, would they have had the technology to do that? DB: Several thousand years after the disaster, yes. We’re talking a large expanse of time after the disaster before they ever began reconstituting themselves, before we did on the surface of the Earth, reconstitute ourselves to the point to leave. AM: Okay. DB: We’re talking about a lot of time here. AM: Okay. But the Orions... You said the Orions, somewhere, I think it was on your interview on Camelot. You said the Orions left at the time of the catastrophe. DB: No. MMcD: No. DB: No, and if that’s written anywhere, please show us where because that would be wrong. MMcD: It has to be corrected. AM2: I think it was stated that they left 2000 years after this. AM1: Okay. Well, the site... DB: That’s fine. That’s fine. AM: And since they did that, does this mean... I think I asked this before... that we’re never going to see them again? Because we’re on the wrong Timeline. DB: Well, as I said, I understand a couple of different things. I understand that there were teams left behind in case the disaster still occurred. These individuals ostensibly would know that they may not be able to go home again. AM: Because it doesn’t exist? DB: Ah... well, they may not be able to traverse the wormhole system again after we get done with the transit. I’m not certain about that. AM: But does that mean that we’re never going to see any other aliens again? DB: No, and in fact this is why... this is why I raised... Oh, boy. I raised the specter of a couple hundred years of viewing with the Looking Glass. And I also raised the issue of INRI on the Cross of Hendaye. We mentioned the first two adding up to 60, meaning the number of years from the time of the inception of Majestic to its official ending, by the end of the orders, 2007. Now, of course, they officially broke off at the end of 2005, but the orders... they stood adjourned to the completion of the orders. The completion of the orders ended, technically, at the end of 2006. So if you count from 2007, and you add the last two numbers up on the Cross of Hendaye, that is exactly the date that was seen as the date of first alien contact. AM: Yes. Who were we contacting? Was it the J-Rods or the... DB: No. A true alien of non-human lineage. First true alien contact. That would place it along about 2217 or 2218. That kind of hurt me when I found out personally because I would like to meet a true alien. I have met an extraterrestrial but not an alien. I have met an extraterrestrial of human lineage, several of them, but not a true alien. AM: So we are not going to see any extraterrestrials of human lineage anymore? DB: We should not. The public should not. AM: [inaudible] How disappointing. DB: Thinking empirically, yes. AM: Are there existing records, including movie, film, or video, of the J-Rods? DB: Yes sir. Oh, yes sir. AM: [inaudible] ...of the J-Rods or anything... DB: Oh yes sir. For instance, all of my interactions – and there were well over 100 direct interactions in the Clean Sphere – all of the interactions were video/audio taped from multiple directions. Marcia, in fact, at her very short time when she toured S4, saw some of the videos. They are obviously highly secure and I wish they would not be. It’d be the greatest thing in my life, to be honest with you, with some of the questions that have been raised and some of the statements and the labels that have been applied to us, if they’d just release the darn videos and let it be and let people claim that they’re hoaxed. You know? Fine. Okay? But, you know, in any group... well, I can only speak for some of the UFOlogical groups that we’ve interacted with in the U.S. We’ve been treated... MMcD: Poorly. DB: ... much more politely here.

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MMcD: Oh. Here? Very polite. BD: Much more politely. In fact, while we were walking toward the Volkshaus for the panel interview that had not yet occurred, I looked over at Marcia and I said: This now raises the specter of my having to ask certain people in our beloved country who are involved in UFOlogical organizations: Exactly what is your major malfunction? [laughter] These people get it. What’s wrong here? Is it just anxiety because of our culture, or what? But... MMcD: Right. Our own UFOlogical people are basically... [makes a gesture that makes audience laugh] You know? AM: [inaudible] ... In the book of William Hamilton, Behold a Pale Horse, he mentioned that all the UFO magazines, that they penetrated... [inaudible] BD: Yes sir. At least most... well, I can say rather authoritatively that all of them within the United States have been. We have the Majestic Folkloristics Unit in place to provide as much disinformation to the population as they can foist on them. AM: They did a good job, yeah? DB: Yeah, they did a good job confusing people about this. MMcD: We are at the 5-minutte mark and I’ll give you a oneminute. DB: Then you drag me off the stage... AM: Dan, may I ask you a question? DB: No. [laughter] AM: Well, I asked you before on a post, and you had made a judgment. DB: And, and during the telephone call we had. Wonderful telephone call. AM: I was probably one of the last persons to talk to you over the telephone. DB: Via phone... that’s quite possible... AM: Okay. DB: ... given what Marcia’s intending. AM: Very nice. Thank you very much. DB: In fact, you, you, aside from our close personal friends, having to do with the Golden Thread, the dash golden thread dot proboards dot com. [ http://the-goldenthread.proboards.com/ ] MMcD: The real one. DB: The real one. AM: It maybe shifted because of all the [unclear; overtalking Dan] to avoid the … MMcD: The pleasant one. DB: The pleasant one, the polite one, the one where people who were from the original inception of the Golden Thread... we’ll call it Book One, and we’ll call this Golden Thread Book Two, kind of like The Tale of Two Cities. The second book is called the Golden Thread, but... ah... please, please. AM: Yes, I was just wondering if you had one of your drawings of the J-Rods with you? DB: Oh. AM: Because of course we would love to see how he would look like. MMcD: Yes. I don’t think we brought any here. DB: That one I didn’t plan. I’m not certain if I have one here or not. If not, we’ll put an image up on the front of EaglesDisobey.net for everyone to see. I have done one, a hand drawing, and I’ve done a couple of computer graphic drawings. Okay. AM: What is all this stuff going around relating to the alien ___ 2017? [inaudible] MMcD: That’s what’s encoded into the Cross of Hendaye. AM: Yes, but Dan just said that the first contact … [inaudible] DB: It’s 2200... 2217. MMcD: Maybe I mis-heard you. I’m sorry. AM: Well, he was saying 2017… [inaudible] And Dan was just saying 22 … MMcD: Well, I’m saying... the cross. DB: Well, in my opinion... my opinion on this? AM: Sure. DB: Is that absolutely it could happen. That’s my opinion. Being that we’re on a path that we do not know, who knows? Yet this was encoded... this was encoded via J-Rod contact. So that encoding, even the encoding on the Cross of Hendaye, it says that there are two catastrophes. Well, we’ve avoided one of them already. So why not the second catastrophe being avoided? And why not the date of first contact which was indicated on the cross be avoided as well? MMcD: It maybe shifted. DB: It makes perfect sense.

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DB: No, we do not have one of those images with us. I’m sorry. MMcD: We completely derailed the encoding because it was based on their history, whereas we have made significant changes now and made changes in the catastrophe. AM: So anything could happen … MMcD: So, we’re on a new path. AM: Right. So they could Disclose in my lifetime. MMcD: It could! We’re on a completely new path. DB: Yes, I’m hoping.... I am hoping it happens. I want to see it. MMcD: Me too, I would love it. DB: I want to see human beings on Mars. Obviously we have a certain fascination with Mars. When we get back, we’ll show some images, too. AM: If you could make this clear for me... once we went to a new line, Timeline, everything has to change. I mean, how is it possible that still some things from the other line can pop out in our new lines? [Everyone talking at once] DB: Well, reality... reality. [audience overtalking Dan] All right. Reality, as I understand it is... MMcD: Stop. Stop. [everyone talking] All right. Thank you, but could I have you please repeat your question? AM: The question is that once we have changed the Timeline, it’s like changing a railroad track, we go to a different direction. So therefore I don’t quite get it, how is it possible if we have avoided already one catastrophe... so we are already on a different train track. How is it possible that still future events can hop onto the next track? DB: Right, I don’t personally view it because of the contact with the J-Rods that they are separate physical Newtonian tracks as in physical... like if I drop this, it’s going to move toward the center of the Earth – Newtonian tracks. This is more a quantum issue that has actually leapt over into our reality, that our reality is actually a multiverse reality, yet the transducers that we have in our heads are allowing us to see only one of the universes. In other words, as he understood it and told me, which was quite mind-blowing to me, that when we pass away and these transducers are no longer functioning, we then become part of the multiverse, and so we find out that all of our other selves, even all of the other parts of ourselves, and everyone else, are all together in one location. That’s the unity which is underlying the system of reality, as he indicated. MMcD: Parallel. DB: Yeah. There is footage of that from the Orion Cube. This Cube, which was given to Eisenhower in 1954 as a gift, which was an exchange of technology at the inception of the treaty process... Depending upon the user, that gift you could have some influence on. Your personal disposition could cause what you were seeing to differ because of the probabilistic nature of it. And there were parallel issues seen which could not be subtracted out as just “probables” of us here and now, so in fact that’s probably substantiated, what you’re suggesting. And that also was a quantum over-the-horizon-looking device. AM: Do you think people are ready, if this… [inaudible] got to be released? Are the people living ready for them or not? DB: Given what I saw last night, and what I saw here today, and even the night before, the answer is: Yes. MMcD: Now, this gentlemen back here has been very patient. AM: [inaudible] Yes, ah... So things can phase in, things can phase out, and we may be looking across several Timelines at one another and may be actually reducing by agreement with each other – while we’re on the other side – reducing by agreement with each other what we’re willing to accept as reality. It’s a rather complicated thing and if you don’t understand it, you’re right with me, because I’ve been trying to understand that as well. [to audience member] Yes, Sir. AM: I would like to make a comment. DB: Yes. AM: I would like to make a comment. [inaudible] The different dates, 2017 and 2218... It could be there exists footage and nobody is aware, or very few people are aware of, of parallel worlds. DB: What? AM: Parallel worlds.

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DB: Oh, another question from our friend. No, that’s great. [laughter] MMcD: We’re looking at a four-minute window to a break. AM: What you’re saying is pretty much what I’m saying, or what I was told on the Internet about Michio Kaku He said that multiple universes exist, that every possibility in the other universe exists. So that means that you have today this shirt, but in other universe you choose other shirt, and in another universe you have coffee in the morning or don’t have coffee in the morning, and, you know... DB: Wait a minute now. I don’t... [laugher] AM: That’s what I wanted to ask, how you think about that. DB: Yes. [thoughtful pause] Yes. I can absolutely accept that within my personal philosophy. AM: To say that some things from the other Timeline can be true in this Timeline? DB: It can phase in and out. And I think that my agreement – given that there’s a unity underlying all of reality – we may have agreed to be, as Bill said, on this adventure together. AM: Yeah. DB: And that is a really cool thing. MMcD: I look at it a little bit differently, and I’m not sure if this makes sense or not. DB: Facets. MMcD: But I’m seeing it as facets. Look at a big gemstone... and you cut all these beautiful, beautiful facets in the big gemstone, beautiful facets, and every time you look into the gemstone, it’s a little bit different. Now, how you look into the gemstone is how you see the gemstone, but, it’s still the same gemstone. So maybe when we’re looking at the gemstone here [indicates a slant, then moves position]... and now we’ve made changes. Now we’re looking at [indicates straight position] this section of the gemstone. It’s the same gemstone. DB: Mm hm. When we finish after the break, we’re going to show you some images that you might enjoy seeing. We have images here with us from Emanation of the Solfeggio, which is our latest eBook that’s available on our website. The foreword is by Leonard Horowitz, Dr. Leonard Horowitz. See? So, if anybody asks about emerging viruses, issues like that, Leonard and we have a regular communication stream. We’re aware. We are aware and we’re just trying to be responsible with everything. [to audience member] Yes. AM: Do you share a point of view with David Wilcock on his overview regarding 2012? Or do you have, obviously, a different point of view? DB: I’m not understanding the... DB: Oh, yes. Yes. Well, we had some personal fear when we walked in on the morning of March 28, 2009, that the Pacific Ocean may be greeting us in a Las Vegas valley. We still knew in our hearts that we were going to survive, and that is exactly what we believe. [to audience member] Yes, Sir. AM: This is a simple question about the treaties. Can you elaborate which nations have participated and how their members have been selected? DB: The representatives were selected via the Committee of the Majority interaction with the United Nations. The person who actually brokered the political agreement creating the Committee of the Majority, and bringing the treaty system even more into an internationalized view, was Indira Gandhi. Most of the UN nations are treaty signatories to the OF-9 and Tau IX Treaties. However, they probably won’t tell you openly this. AM: So it’s a lot of countries, then? DB: Yes, Sir. AM: And within the countries, do you know how the representatives have been selected? DB: The representatives were selected at the times that the countries actually came into the information. The U.S. sat on it for a long period of time as a military issue. It was only in 1953, when the actual first Aquarius Project was formed, that they became certain that there were time travelers. Previous to that, I think it was 1941 or ’42 at Cape Girardeau... has anybody heard of that? A crash in Missouri? There was actually a [William] Huffman, a Reverend, who gave last rites over some crashed beings – beings – and no one understood at the time why he was giving last rites to them. He was giving last rites to them because there was a communication underway as they were dying that they were human beings, therefore the issue of last rites, as within our culture, was appropriate for them, that they actually sought it out via communication with him. But a number of countries and how those delegates were picked was via communication with the nation-states at the time, and then those individual nation-states selected individuals to the Committee of the Majority, and then they became parties to the treaty. MMcD: I don’t understand. AM2: Let me ask it: Do you agree with David Wilcock on his opinion about possible 2012 and... DB: Ah... specifically which opinion? AM: Well, he’s very optimistic. DB: Oh, yes. MMcD: Yes, optimistic.

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MMcD: Ladies and gentlemen, I was told to please engineer a break at 11:00 and it’s 11:01. [15 minute intermission, workshop resumes] DB: A question was asked during the break concerning the appearance of the J-Rod. I was asked: Well, was the J-Rod solid? Yes, the J-Rod was solid, but the J-Rod also appeared off-shifted in a strange way. That’s about the best I can explain it. I don’t really have words to indicate it save maybe to say he didn’t appear as though he “belonged”. You can look across the table and see another human being across the table and we know we belong here. There was something... Aside from what he looked like and how the communication was underway, there was just something wrong, and I think that something wrong was a separation issue. MMcD: Actually this is a segue and a very good relational question because I was asked at the break if I could propose a question to Dan on behalf of one of the members of the Ground Crew. She would like to know more about the occasion in the Clean Sphere when you were suited up and you happened to have a procedural break wherein the J-Rod stepped toward you out of the procedural format and you stepped backward, catching your foot. DB: Well, you know what? [to Marci] I’m going to go ahead and put you on the spot first, then, with this... MMcD: Oh no.... DB: ...which will ultimately probably not weigh well for me, but tell them about the first time that we met at Vashti’s. MMcD: [laughs] Well, all right, all right. The question actually segues, but the full question was: The communication that took place at that moment, could you elaborate slightly? DB: I understand. MMcD: The very first time that I met Dan was in 1980... DB: You’ll understand in a moment why I asked her. MMcD: ...at a party. I had been actually taken around Europe, taken around different parts of the United States and different parts of the world because my family was trying to introduce me to “the right people.” I didn’t know at the time that my father was a Majestic courier under the Forrestal administration. He was required to go from country to country to country carrying sensitive Majestic documents, but I never knew that. But they wanted me to... they were grooming me. So I happened to be at a party at Vashti Bunyan’s farm up in northern England, Scotland. DB: It was called Western Cumbersheeny [googled it, looked around on a map of the Cumbernauld area and did not find anything, so the spelling of this is just unclear] It was technically up in the Cumbernauld area of Scotland. MMcD: And this party... actually the father of Vashti Bunyan was the gentleman with whom Dan was staying in England and studying microbiology, working with him under his tutelage as a young man of my father’s, so he brought Dan to the party. I was having a wonderful time and I noticed this rather gangly 16-yearold young man... DB: Gangly? [laughter] MMcD: ...looking at me. DB: Gee, thanks. MMcD: His eyes went like that. [makes a wide-eyed expression] DB: A red-haired goddess walked in. MMcD: Oh... well, I was a lot younger and... [laughter] Anyway, he managed to step backwards toward the kitchen door opening and put his foot right into a silver trashcan, at which point he stumbled backwards right through into the kitchen... [makes falling flat gesture; audience laughs] That’s how I first remember him, and then met him. So when he fell backwards in the Clean Sphere, it was no surprise. [laughter] DB: It was for different reasons, though. I was not taken by the JRod as I was taken by you. [laughs] It was a whole different series of emotions, trust me. What happened is when we were introduced, we would go through medical checks, be actually suited, initially deconned [decontaminated] and then placed in a gantry ramp and wheeled over to the Clean Sphere. We would then have to hose into the Clean Sphere, open up air lines and emergency ducts, and also do communications checks. While all of this was going on, I was supposed to be having all of the information about what I was supposed to do inside there already memorized, look good doing it, because if you didn’t, the number Two Channel that was going up to the surveillance unit inside of S4 would be telling you to get back to work. And then I would be introduced into the Clean Sphere. I was to step to the right. There was an anthropomorphic symbol, a symbol of a human being giving [demonstrates friendly wave of hand]... a friendly symbol, which was a real joke for Chi'el'ah because I would stand there and go like this [raises hand to wave hello] and he would be laughing at me while I did it. [laughter] And then I was supposed to do the “bridal step” toward him, indicating that I was a friend stepping toward him inside of the unit that I had mentioned before for the linguistics, the Sigma Unit’s protocols. So I would do a “bridal step”. [demonstrates] Well, he got a little cheeky one day with me, and as I took a step forward, he took a step forward. Now, I kind of suppressed my emotions about it at that point, because no matter how friendly he was with me and I was with him – even unbeknownst to Majestic

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in there and the operations team, how much we were talking amongst each other – he was still who he was and I was still who I was... and he was handling who I was a lot easier than what I was handling who he was. I then summoned my guts up and took another “bridal step” forward. And when he stepped forward again at me, still laughing at me – and I could hear him laughing through me as I kind of felt like I was falling toward him – I panicked. I had this visceral response. I panicked and I stepped backward. As I stepped backward I hit either my right or my left shoe, I don’t remember which, to be honest; however, that video, I hope to God, is never played. [laughter] But I stepped backward and caught one of my heels on one of the grates. As I did so, I fell over backward. Now, I was in a very unwieldy suit which was slightly too small for me. I was in a woman’s totally encapsulated... essentially Moon suit. I’m not that big of a guy and the only thing that would fit me, the only totally encapsulated unit that would fit me there, was the one female biowarfare suit that they had. So they would fit the bell on me and it was slightly too short on me, so the bell would actually press down on the top of my head with a ring on the inside of the bell, and it was actually painful. It was also very difficult to walk... essentially an Apollo-type Moon suit that one would expect. Well, when I fell over backward I was lying... MMcD: He looked like a cockroach. DB: A cockroach [flailing his arms] doing this business. [laughter] Well, when I began reaching out... I was panicking, as it was, when I fell backward and I began stretching my arms out trying to right myself. At that point he continued to step toward me and actually walked up onto my chest. Now I’m in a worse panic, but he began to entrain me and raise the Hertz level that he was entraining me with, to begin flooding me with the enkephalons, the opiates, with which to calm me. MMcD: To calm him down... [inaudible] DB: To calm me. Now, I knew at that moment that I was okay. Well, you have enough opiates flooding your brain, you’re going to think you’re okay anyway, no matter what. But I felt fine. And then I was listening at that same time between Channel 1 and Channel 2, flipping back and forth inside of the bell, because I could hear it literally ringing inside of the bell from my earpiece that they were preparing to change the pressure inside of the Clean Sphere to harm the J-Rod. That is how they... It’s a process called intumescence, where they would actually cause pain by changing the atmospheric pressure. You know, if you fly your ears might hurt? Well, they can change the pressure enough to cause extreme pain to the body, and his body was of less density – and I don’t mean as some people have described third, fourth and all that density; that’s a little bit beyond my understanding – as in mass-overvolume-density, physical density. He was of less density than We’ve got 450 volumes of it. Most of the time that he was downloading the information, it simply streamed into my brain looking as what you see here. This was written by me from right to left, and if you think of 450 diary volumes full of it, that is what Marcia is the caretaker of. AM: You wrote it, actually? DB: Yes. It has been projected into a negative for the purpose of the showing today because Stan Goldstein, the former chief psychologist for the Consistory of the Majestic suggested that it might be less—I don’t know why—less shocking. My concern was this: I had a concern about showing this at all. Marcia wanted me to show it. I was concerned that being an abductee myself, that some of you may have seen something of this nature. In fact, this was planned to be shown the first night, the first interview, but everything was somewhat moved, derailed and shifted and changed in the conversation. MMcD: Rearranged. what we are, given his physical conditions under which he grew. So they were getting ready to fire the repress valves in there. MMcD: They were getting ready to hurt him severely. DB: Yes. To knock him off of me. They thought I was being attacked. I may have been, but it was not with a negative intention from him. I then fell back into... I was lying down. I’m saying I drifted back into what he was communicating, and had very little command over what I was doing at that point. The communication went on for some time and all I remember seeing are streams of... [speaking to Ground Crew member] Can you put Zurich 15 up, if you please? Thank you very much. There it is... streams of that. [picture of very jagged lines] That is what their shadow language actually looks like, or looked, depending upon your personal consideration about what happened to them. I’d like to think looks, because he had a boy and I hope that he’s at home with his son now. Marcia has presently in Las Vegas 450 diary volumes full of that. AM: What does this represent? DB: That is in fact the shadow language of the J-Rods. They would hold their hands – some of you can see the shadow here? – under a projected light and they would actually communicate as a passing screen was recording it. Their language is composed of three separate parts: a central feature reading from right to left, but a central feature which is either an ideogram or a constant, and then vowels. So if you see items like this, for instance from the P24 crafts, the I-beams from Roswell, those are actually vowels that are on the Ibeam. [pointing to screen]

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DB: So this was actually written as a black on white paper. It’s all written with black on white paper. So I had this streaming in, and at the same time I found myself inside of what appeared to be another reality, a 3-D hologram, like a holodeck from Star Trek, and was being shown other items... for instance his home; items concerning historical items, which I honestly have to... Our own historical items, which I have to be very careful about because there are many perspectives in this room, and I don’t wish to offend anyone, so I will be very reticent to speak about certain things. For instance, we don’t go to religious issues. I feel that we’re put here to understand one another and to exist with separate religions – this is my personal feeling – to exist with separate religions so that we can understand God via our differences and where we can find common ground. So the specific items that he may have shown me concerning that genre, I would be very reticent to... MMcD: He showed you images of his home. DB: He did. His planet, his society, his school, where he functioned. He showed me the Gliese system [Gliese 581] where they departed from, and many other things. This is in fact [points to lines on screen] part of the actual decode which contained the March 28, 2009 date. It was cut off because... well, the line just continued, so I took it where it mentions March 28, 2009, but I should not – I beg your forgiveness – I should not say where it says March 28, 2009 in it. That will provide a potential for a linguist’s primer as to how to read their language. Now, if they have been part of us but were separated as a partition from our species, this language may never officially exist, even though you’re seeing it. It may never officially exist. If it is decodable from what we have up here, then so be it, we’ve shown you the truth to that extent. So be it. But we should not give a dictionary: this is what an “A” looks like, this is what a “B” looks like. That would be a very bad idea, personally, I feel right now. At least right now. I mean, my opinions could change but personally... [to audience member] Yes, Sir? AM: Can you read it yourself? DB: Yes sir. Marcia has, in fact, had me... This was the inception of the big problem for March 28, 2009, save the date itself. This indicated March 28, 2009. This is actually the transliteration into English, the best one that we could form. Now, you may see the word at the start... Beanie / B-N-E. That’s what he personally called me because I was asked about my childhood when he was talking to me about his childhood, and I told him that I was a great fan of Cecil and Beanie, a cartoon, a US cartoon. MMcD: In the United States, a cartoon back in the ’50s and ’60s. I used to watch it, too. It was cute. DB: Earth was referred to as E-R-T. This is actually the date for three days, and it placed it at MARSAY [or MARS-A] which is March. E-N-G was his way of speaking about Great Britain, and that’s why I said the only country on the Net... in tight [or type] testimony, the only country that was actually named in this was England. But that is how they remembered the name for England. It was just called E-N-G.

MMcD: Well, you have to think what do we exactly know and remember from 2000 years ago? How much do we? We weren’t there, so how much do we really remember and know? How about if you were to try to remember what happened 52,000 years ago? How much would we know for sure and remember? We would have at best bits and pieces of it. I think it’s the same type of thing. DB: And this was the greatest concern, too. The greatest concern for us was March 28, 2009... we’re talking a 52,000 year difference. AM: Does this describe catastrophe? DB: Yes. In fact it says: Join no more sea, a specific indication concerning the moment of the beginning of the catastrophe which would result in our partitioning. But the thing which gave me hope, great hope when I read it, was Time Ancients – that’s us, the cavemen and women – Time Ancients must decide joining. And that’s all of us. MMcD: We have to decide. This is up to us. DB: And when that was decoded with it -- that gave me a great deal of hope for our future. AM: What was the catastrophe about? ... [inaudible]... forward looking ... DB: The catastrophe was approximated with the use of a wormhole access technology on Earth which then caused a between 1-and-4-degree geophysical Pole shift of the planet Earth. The mantle and crust slid. It was an aesthenosphere situation where it slid and some waters actually poured out, some of the mantle waters under high pressure that have been discovered, poured out as well, and there was a great inundation. Now, one individual walked up after the interview and showed me a photograph of a rainbow. And so that’s the one thing, a

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rainbow, that personally, from my own personal history, that has really lifted me up inside, emotionally, spiritually, lifted me up. His bow and the clouds. MMcD: Bow -- a rainbow in the clouds. MMcD: We were pretty upset about that. DB: We were promised in the Hebrew holy books that we would not be destroyed by water again. MMcD: And the evidence of the rainbow in the clouds gave us great hope. DB: Great hope. MMcD: Great hope. DB: So anyway, the download, the majority of it, looked and looks like this. And so Marcia has had me decoding now, slowly moving through the books and decoding the diaries. I didn’t know what I was writing when I wrote it. It was simply shoved in and then pushed back out onto the papers. AM: Were you in a trance when you wrote this, or can you translate it? [inaudible] DB: No. I can go page by page only somewhat now. It’s starting to fade. MMcD: Let me give you an example. DB: I can only remember so much. MMcD: When Dan reads, because of the way that his mind is wired to function and designed, he does not read so much as memorize. For example, when on one occasion, I needed to go to a certain image in order to facilitate the research, I asked him if he could remember what book it came from, and he went: The book name, the book page, halfway up the page, located at this shelf over to the right, this level of the library, there. I went: Huh? I went there. DB: I’m not special, I’m just different. MMcD: I went there. I went to the book. I opened the book up. I opened up the page and there was the image. DB: Now, perhaps these ladies and gentlemen would like to hear you on the morning of March 28, 2009. Now, I had previously indicated – I’m not sure if this was before everybody came into the room or not – that you might hear some mean tones out of Marcia. We had people that were present who helped sign the treaties. We lured them. With them not knowing that March 28, 2009 was the date, we lured them to Las Vegas and had them put up in hotels in Las Vegas. We made sure Stephen and Brian were in charge of the operation. We made sure because we had enough people there that they would be unable to leave the night before the meeting. I don’t want to... MMcD: They were our guests. DB: Well, yeah, because I never assented to my name being added to the treaty system, but... MMcD: I wanted to make sure they had a ringside seat. [laughter] DB: They had a series of western-facing rooms between 15 and 25 floors up. We did, in fact, have the bolts removed from the windows in this particular hotel in Las Vegas, Nevada. In case they would happen to see the oceans coming from the West, they were welcome to leave their room by any means other than the room’s door. [laughter] MMcD: They were not real happy with us. DB: If humanity was going to drown like rats, so were they. AM: What is the status of the treaty? DB: The treaty is going to be expunged at the end of 2020. We were told right before the operation happened where Marcia actually had me extracted. She and I were having conversations about that and we said we can’t wait another twelve years. We’d waited 18 years to be together – 18. Add another twelve to that? We wanted some life left in us, and not to be held apart any further, and so we took the risk. She took the risk that day. MMcD: Damn right. DB: We figured that they would be too busy with the formation of the new group, the new group of Illumes that came into the five councils. There are five separate councils, five councils that are called the Areopagites of the Illuminati. I cannot officially name them, meaning who is seated at the heads of those five councils, or that would be considered something that they would directly eliminate me for. So, I’ve got to be honest: Marcia and I do want a future together for ourselves, too. If we can do anything from behind the scenes to get them outed by other means, that could happen, but directly naming them... nobody appointed me, and even if they did, it doesn’t matter. I’m not somebody who’s willing to spread his arms out and have nails put in them. I’m just a human being and I just want a life with my wife, so I’m doing the best I can. [applause] Thank you. [to audience member] Yes, Sir. AM: What is the best way to learn more about the content of the treaties? Are there records somewhere, or have you spoke in interviews, or...? DB: Not much. Not much. Marcia and I have been considering doing an entire DVD concerning the specific content. We just haven’t gotten to it yet. It’s a matter of time. We’ll get a copy of this record. I’m sure I’ll remember it and we’ll consider doing it. The next DVD I think she wants us to do is about the Q-94. DB: They were our guests whether they wished to remain our guests or not. [laughter] Another reason is, a couple of the people that we had present were those who had my name added to the treaty system as well.

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MMcD: The next DVD I actually have asked him to do is a lineby-line examination of the Q-94 document with attendant science. DB: There have been criticisms of that document. Let me find something here, briefly… There we are. Most of the criticisms of the document have come from unnamed sources. One person was allegedly the head of a medical school on the east coast of the United States and said: Oh, this is just all gobbledy-gook. Well, to start with, if you sit in a chair as a professor, at least within the United States... I can’t speak about other universities around the world... there is a great deal of pressure to keep your job, to conform to dogma. Initially the individual with whom I had a conversation about the Q-94 document was a Ph.D. in neurophysiology. His name is, well, we’ll just say Dr. Green, who is associated with people who are associated to a group called the Aviary. Now remember what I said about the Aviary. Here was, from Monday February 2, 2004, my birthday, a message that came via Skywatcher22@hotmail.com– and that’s Bill Hamilton, a UFO researcher. “Subject: One more comment and message for Dr. Dan. Today I wish to offer Dr. Dan Burisch a happy 40th birthday. May you one day be recognized for your work. Dr. Green wrote, “It would be foolish for me to ask about a specific area of molecular biology in which I am not as advanced as is he, Dan. His writings on profound biochemical and genetic postulates are beyond my single medical school course in pathophysiology.” Yet, when I refused, right around the same time that I refused to buy into the garbage, the disinformation coming from the Aviary having to do with Serpo – Oh, right! It’s right out of a Stargate movie – with Serpo, with what mysteriously happened at Gate 3, yet they couldn’t find even our names in a search string prior to us going to CalTech to speak and our names were on the CalTech website. MMcD: For about a year. DB: Well, you can still find the abstract there. They have such deep contacts, they claim, inside the United States government that they can’t do a simple search on the Internet? Something wrong here! Now all of a sudden, it’s allegedly all gobbledygook. MMcD: We won’t buy in, so suddenly they change their tone. DB: So, what I’ve been asking ever since that day is: Who is the person saying this? Because this person was allegedly a female doctor, head of a medical school, and member of the National Academy of Sciences. Oh, boy! Give me her name because I’m going to marry her to her comments, forever. I’m going to go line by line, one way or the other, through the Q94 document and we will reference the comments in the Q-94 document to published peer-reviewed literature. So let them keep talking. [to audience member] Yes sir. AM: You mentioned Serpo just then. What do you make of that whole...? DB: It’s disinformation. MMcD: Total garbage. AM: Is it true? DB: No. It’s total garbage. MMcD: It’s garbage. DB: There was no exchange program like that. AM: Perhaps this was a way to... who went through... [inaudible] DB: No, no, no. AM: I wrote a story about it. [laughs] MMcD: [talking over Dan] This story’s all over the place, but it’s garbage. DB: I know, I know. I’m sorry. If you wrote a story about it, you obviously referenced the individuals who were claiming things. AM: Yes. DB: There’s nothing wrong with that. I wrote about it, too. The name Serpo is an old K-4, and old NATO K-4 code that they appropriated. The individuals involved in the Aviary are well aware of that, at least one of them, because he was involved in the military... well, a couple of them were. But it’s an old K-4 code that was written backward, the word Opres, the word for Operation Rehearsal. At the same time that we were coming up with the information that we were coming up with, and told to tell the truth to the public, what they were doing is that they were doing a rehearsal to see how much garbage they could purvey on you. [laughter] [to audience member] Yes, Sir. AM: What venue is the connection between these councils of Majestic – Scion – and top government officials, heads of state? DB: If you go to the Project Camelot website, the signed affidavits sworn under penalty of perjury... we placed our liberty on the line. We placed our liberty on the line for this. If anyone wishes to challenge those affidavits anywhere in the world, as long as we’re appropriately transferred to those locations, we’re happy to do this. In one of those affidavits I named the names of the last Twelve, who are the seated last Twelve. As a follow-on to that, as Scion took over, the number was reduced from twelve to nine individuals. Those individuals... I’m in approximately the same position about naming those individuals as what I am concerning the five Areopagites. Very dangerous.

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MMcD: I can’t ask him to go there because of safety and security reasons for us. AM: Can I ask a question about the Serpo? DB: [to audience member] Yes, Sir, I saw you. AM: You mentioned Bill Hamilton. I have a question about what you mentioned yesterday about reverse-engineering for, you know, free energy purposes. DB: Yes. AM: I understand from an interview that Project Camelot did with Gordon Novel that he’s supposedly doing the same and since I’ve heard his name on that also, I’m trying to put the facts together. Are there different groups trying to reverse-engineer stuff? Are they disconnected or the same people involved in different things? DB: Okay. We’re going to go ahead and get difficult here. Everyone knows or may know about the issues that I’ve had with one Mr. George Knapp of KLAS-TV8. All right. He and I had an issue which occurred in 1990, and he’s had some issues with me ever since. I love the guy. He’s a good jovial investigative reporter, kind of. MMcD: Just as an aside... there was a panel in 1990. He tried to pin Dan down about a statement about where he was working, which was at the time Area 51, and he was a big company man. I’m not going to talk about it. He tried to pin him down about it, and Dan was ready for him, and he embarrassed him in front of a whole live audience, and George has never forgiven him. DB: I was a company man at the time. I didn’t even know that ETs existed, not for sure. I had been abducted out of the park, but I really didn’t know what happened way earlier in 1973. I only really learned about what happened many years later. And so I was thinking at the time that I was simply working for the United States government, via the United States military. It was a defense issue, a biological defense issue, is what I was thinking. So I was basically telling him: Why are you opening your mouth with such a beautiful flag standing behind you? – meaning ’Ole Glory was standing there at the end of our panel post, our flag, and it irritated the man. And I also, well... MMcD: It was a little bit more than that. DB: Dale Etheridge, who was the planetarium coordinator for the Clark County area did a stunt with me where he said: I’m going to tell the truth about you, Dan. HE WAS RIGHT IN FRONT OF GEORGE AS GEORGE SAID: I’ve got information on you, Dr. Crain, that you are part of the Saucer Program. And then Dale Etheridge looked over at me and he says... and we’ll get to Gordon here in a moment – “a Gordon”. I’m not going to say the Gordon; I’m going to say “a Gordon”. You’re going to hear “a Gordon” in a few moments, actually hear him on our answering machine. [laughter, audience comment] Dale raised this bag up from under – it was a preset joke – raised this bag from out underneath the table. AND HE SAYS: I’ve got the goods here on you, Dr. Crain. I SAID: Okay, fine. Show the goods, show the goods. And he pulled out an Alf doll. You know the old Gordon Shumway, the little Alf creature, the alien life form creature that liked to eat cats? I SAID: There you are, George. There’s your extraterrestrial. Well, that was a very embarrassing thing for George because we were laughing. We were laughing at it, at the time. Again, I had no idea. So I was a very, you know, company man. I was a lot more brash at that time, and I was a lot more willing to deal with him that way. MMcD: So he never exactly forgave Dan. DB: Right. Now, the reason why you’re being told this is, George indicated that he never called my home... and I’m going to get to Gordon, but George indicated that he never called my home. Would you be so kind as to bring up the GK [talking to slide projectionist]. Yes, if you please, Oh one says GK and one says GN. Go figure. Okay, the one on the right-hand side, if you would be so kind. From 1991, Ladies and Gentlemen. [playing of George Knapp audio message from Dan’s telephone, muffled, inaudible] … European AK 42 I don’t know what to tell you, … Dictaphone, Dictaphone … give me a call … DB: He claims he never called me. [audio clip played again] He had some inside information and he got ahold of my home phone number [audio still playing] Okay. Thank you. Now we are moving to EBE – Extraterrestrial Biological Entity. Now we’re going to move forward into 2009. [Marcia in background writes on board: J scribble EBE K.] Would you be so kind as to do the GN – whomever that may be – the GN 2009 wave files? Here is coercion coming. AM: Would you also have the volume up slightly? It was pretty much down. [plays phone recording] Dan, this is Gordon. I’m getting ready to leave Vegas and I had lunch with your old buddy George Knapp and I’m not going to mention any of our faux pas. DB: It would be so good of him not to mention it. [recording continues] All I wanted to do was to thank you for the Shirley Bassey thing. It’s brilliant and excellent. I would like meet this Goldstein and Dan Steele if they’re real... DB: Forget it. What is “incrediblize”?

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[phone recording continues] ...I hear that they’re incredible and some of it’s real. So I’m sure you know what Mr. Knapp has to say, etcetera, etcetera, but we still want to talk business, and we can’t do business without talking business. It seems to me to be mandatory to be able to talk about what you can deliver and find out what you’re offering, and... [answering machine voice cuts in, giving date and time] Tuesday, 3... DB: He ran out of tape time. [recording begins again; Dan speaks to sound engineer: That’s fine. Thank you.] He ran out of tape time. He just kept talking, and our answering machine eventually just cut off, thank God. But what happened was, we met with “a certain Gordon” – I’ll just say “a certain Gordon” because we’re dealing with issues here – and he wanted to offer me to back-engineer a Looking Glass device, as a time issue. And: We want Argo for the carbon dioxide sequestration; we’re not going to be playing with these time issues. AND HE LOOKED OVER AT MARCIA AND SAYS: Well, you’ve been concubining for a long time. AM: Concubining? MMcD: Yeah, he called me a whore. AM: [inaudible] DB: I looked at her and asked her what her intentions were for me, reference him, at that moment, whether or not she wished me to act in certain ways toward Mr. No... toward “a certain Gordon”. She indicated no. She told him that she had been deeply offended, and I stood there and continued to wait to see what she wanted to telegraph me to do. HE APOLOGIZED AND THEN HE CAME BACK AND MADE ANOTHER SEXUALIZED COMMENT, SAYING: Well, you’re more the sergeant anyway, meaning a control issue involving our sexuality. AT THAT POINT, SHE LOOKED AT ME IN HER LADYLIKE WAY AND SAID: Isn’t it time for us to leave? AND I SAID: Yes, it is. SO WHAT WE DID, SHE THEN LOOKED AT GORDON AND SHE SAID: Have a good dinner, Gordon. AND WE TURNED AROUND AND WALKED AWAY TO HIS YELLING: Hey guys! Guys! We should have learned by now. I mean, we’re capable, if we get hit with a stick over our head enough, of learning. AM: He also claims he does it for energy reasons. MMcD: He claims a lot of things. He claims it’s for energy but what he wants is control. He wants control of energy and he wants control of the technology that allows forward looking. AM: Okay. MMcD: [inaudible audience comment] No, he is a dumb-ass. DB: Now, we had agreed to meet “a certain Gordon” at Ellis Island Hotel-Casino in Las Vegas for dinner. MMcD: He wanted to discuss business. DB: And this was a follow-on to that night where we were supposed to have dinner. We walked up. He had a lovely lady with him, this “certain Gordon” did. We began to have a conversation. AND HE SAID: So you two are getting married. Now, a certain divorce action was going on at the time and we were doing everything we could to get that done with as quickly as possible because of the issues involving the children that we’ve mentioned. AND I SAID: Yes, next month we’re going to be married. DB: Now, this might be very irritating to some people. I actually have a publication here which is being used by his group, “a certain Gordon’s” group. AM: Is it available? DB: [laughs] There are separate teams. There are separate teams attempting to back-engineer said devices. He, in fact, is involved with one of those teams and he doesn’t have the full device specs. He wants to fly a disk. He does not have an inertial integrator and injection unit. I happen to know how that’s put together. MMcD: Remember what I told you about his memory and how when he looks at a schematic or he looks at a mechanical, he memorizes when he looks at those things. As a follow-on, the next day, that recording arrived on our home answering machine and you can see the use of the name George Knapp as an issue of: Well, I’m not going to talk anything about our faux pas. But there was no faux pas. He acted like a... MMcD: Dumb-ass. DB: Right. [Marcia laughs] Now, there are separate teams.

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DB: Oh, I don’t think it’s available via the Internet. It was an unfunded study done by – I’m not going to name the individual, but if I happen to lay it here people will see it or whatever – by a Ph.D. out of Florida. The study’s name is Resolving the Psycho-social Paradoxes Associated with Gravity Nullification, Time Travel, and Propellantless Energy by Blank, Blank, January 24, 2006. Very few individuals [in the study]. It was basically a question-answer format and then this certain Ph.D. came up with certain conclusions. But it’s the selection... it’s the unbiased selection... when you do a real study like this, a sociological study, you have to have an unbiased selection of individuals. Well, there is a very strong leaning in this paper on quotes such as this: Most people commute to work. Duh, right. And since larger industries would break down with the elimination of fossil fuel, people might be more inclined to remain in their communities and thus would be a breeding ground for fanaticism. Speak to Brian O’Leary about the reality involved with this, because this is, in my personal view, a line of garbage. That’s my personal view of this because, as I said, we have a birthright. This is associated with “a certain Gordon’s” group, “a certain Gordon” is associated with the Aviary, which does not have your best interests at heart, in my personal view. MMcD: “A certain Gordon” is trying to back-engineer or create... DB: Power, power, power. MMcD: He’s trying to gather power and influence by creating a flight device based upon back-engineered specs, but he doesn’t have all the specs. He knows that somebody in this room has memorized specs, mechanical drawings, everything that he wants. He’s been approaching, pleading with Dan to help his project. DB: He wrote an email: Oh, you gave up a lot of money and a lot of power. MMcD: That’s what he said to us. MMcD: We finally ordered him to stop harassing us. DB: Well I didn’t... I came close to telling him to stuff his money and his power. AM: [two audience members talking at once] Wouldn’t you take… [inaudible] other measures? Remember, my question was specifically about Bill Hamilton. DB: [answering inaudible question buried in overtalk above] That’s his choice. AM: I didn’t say it. DB: No, I’m just saying that’s his choice. If he wishes to take other measures, if you mean maybe even toward us, because “a certain Gordon” has a certain bravado? That’s his choice. We have team members, too. DB: [to audience member] Yes, Sir. AM: Have you ever had experience with remote viewing? DB: Myself, no. AM: No, okay. DB: No. I did in fact use some remote viewing results for Lotus because on more than one occasion with Lotus I got to the point where I did not know where we were going with it because it’s such a strange phenomenon. Debra, in fact, my former wife, was the individual. AM: Remember, my question was initially specifically about the role of Bill Hamilton. Remember he was close with you about, and also about his book. DB: Bill Hamilton is a very intelligent, big-hearted, good man. AM: He’s on Gordon’s team, is he not? DB: No, no. Okay, let me tell you about “a certain Gordon’s” team. “A certain Gordon’s” team doesn’t exist. Okay? “A certain Gordon’s” team is an email loop that contains about everybody on the face of the Earth except for maybe the people in this room. I was on the email loop and I was never a part of “a certain Gordon’s” team. MMcD: He kept saying that Dan was involved in the elite part of his management team... DB: ...he’s calling something like Knights Templorum, or some weird... MMcD: I talked to the guy and I said: Take him off your email loop. There is no contract, there is no agreement, you have given no consideration, there has been no agreement to associate with you. You simply asked us to listen to a proposal. We listened to your proposal. WE SAID: “No”. Enough! And he didn’t get it. He still doesn’t get it. DB: Well, most of the emails have ceased now because, at least for a time, we put all of his emails and that phone call on the open Internet, so everybody could hear it. AM: Why did you do that? MMcD: We were tired of it. DB: Including all of this business of, you know: You turned down all this power and this money, and even an admission of what he called her. We just put it on the Internet because I was frankly sick of getting harassed by this guy.

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[short break for change of tape; audience member asks about Bill Hamilton again] DB: His name in fact was in an email group – we’re talking about Bill Hamilton – was in an email loop with “a certain Gordon”. However, aside from... well, I don’t want to get into personal issues involving Bill. Ah... I’m just weighing something here. He indicated to me in an email that he didn’t really expect much from him. All right? He’s a good man; Bill Hamilton is a good man. [to audience member] Yes, Sir. AM: Thank you. I feel like I should turn off my cloaking device. [laughter] DB: And you’ve not asked any previous questions whatsoever during the forum. AM: Yes, I was wondering on the treaty question, that who guarantees the treaty for the, let’s say, the P54 or 52, or whatever. As you said, there’s no, or not too many records or whatever you said. DB: Well, he may have had to sign... [audience member talks over Dan] AM: If there is a treaty there has to be some guarantee that the treaty will be kept. So... DB: What guarantees do you want? AM: So what guarantee is there for them to, you know? MMcD: What are you saying... what’s in it for them to keep the treaty? AM: No. For us. What guarantee that we will keep, you know, our side of the treaty? DB: Well, some of which were the handing over of heirlooms... children. Other issues involved détente between the signatories. As long as détente was in existence, a hot war would not break out. There have been a few issues about people firing at people, including US authorities firing at certain craft, and you may have seen certain STS videos of projectiles being fired up through the atmosphere at craft. Those were some hot war provocations. They were violating... there was a specific one that I remember seeing where there was actually a violation and they were not supposed to have a number of craft in our atmosphere. They came in with an extra craft and a shot was fired at them, a couple of shots, I believe. There was a right-angle turn on a craft, and you can see it exiting off over the limb of the Earth. [to audience member] Sir. AM: I understand you are a microbiologist. DB: Yes, Sir. AM: Have you had any new information on cancer? DB: [Marci consults with Dan] Would you hand this to the gentleman, please? [hands paper to questioner] MMcD: Ladies and gentlemen, I have been advised about the requirements of the hotel and the room. We are only going to have 5 minutes. [to Dan] You wanted to hear this tape. DB: Of you? Okay. [Dan speaks with sound engineer: This is going to be Zurich 2009. Okay, that would be... Go ahead and run with the photograph of Marcia. Let’s try it. That’s it, if you want to hear her that morning.] It’s an audiotape of the morning of March 28, 2009, while we were addressing the individuals that we had as guests in Las Vegas, Nevada, the morning and the moment that the T2 event was supposed to have occurred. MMcD: [audiotape plays; sound quality not clear] We began that simple unity flyer program while… [unclear] were being produced. We did this so we would meet or exceed that pre-set Looking Glass quota and the… [unclear]. We accomplished the first goal by September 2006. And do you know the expected way information spread? The last numbers… [unclear] by the end of 2008. [Unclear]… We actually surpassed that number by the middle of 2008 due to the other events that drew attention to Dan and myself. DB: CalTech. MMcD: [audiotape continues] The next number of… [unclear] remains the embodiment of… [unclear] means… [unclear] that we are the human species for which that wonderful decision, that moment of bifurcation, the moment of collective truth, the time that the cycles cross, moment when we must focus upon the… [unclear] solutions of all of fragile life here every one of you. We shall survive this time the cycles cross, the time of the predicted catastrophe of Fulcanelli and reality has chosen to refuse the path that would lead us to schism. We have refused to perish in the wilderness. We are destined as children of the stars. DB: That was cut off.... you heard that little wisp at the end. That was the team and those assembled, the good guys, whistling and stomping and all of that, but we‘ve tried to cut most of the team’s voices off, for their own lives. Most of them are retired now. That gives you an idea. [applause] Thank you, thank you. [to audience member] Yes, Ma’am. AM: I have two questions. The first one is the Omnicron Treaty was scheduled for 2009. And I was just wondering if that happened, or if it’s on schedule, or if it happened, what was the outcome? Or if it hasn’t happened. DB: That was... it has not happened. They were no-shows. They didn’t show up for it.

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AM: And second question, I was wondering if there are any other treaties or communications in place, other forms of black... [inaudible] DB: None to my knowledge, Ma’am. Thank you. [to another audience member] Yes, Sir. AM: This idea that I have, I don’t know if it’s true, if we can refer to it. Could it be that you’re a little bit sidetracked? Because, the thing is actually, you’re talking with J-Rods? As far as I know, visitors from the future are Grays. I’ve been working with the Grays. They are pretty tough stuff, but the real danger out there is the Anunnaki, the reptilians. I mean, these are the real danger for the future of humanity. I mean, in the whole story, I hope these don’t come back and... DB: Well, I can speak to the issue of Anunnaki being a Sumerian influence, or a cultural archetype, or gods of their belief system. I can speak to the reptilian issue because while being entrained by P45 J-Rod, they appear due to their neuropathy, their stance, their calcain/ caucaine-like [word unclear] disease stance, to be very lurching and extremely reptilian in appearance. extensive, has been extensive, with more than one branch of the United States and what I would call foreign militaries, militaries from other nation-states... extensive cooperation. [to another audience member] Yes, Sir. MMcD: One minute. DB: One minute, Ladies and Gentlemen, thank you. AM: I just wanted to ask you if you can confirm some images that are around on the Internet that P52… [inaudible] look like, because even if you draw ... [inaudible] DB: There are no, to my understanding, actual images of an extraterrestrial placed on the Internet. None. AM: You mean it’s all disinformation? DB: Ah...I don’t know what the intent... MMcD: [talking over Dan] I have not seen every image on the Internet. DB: Okay. I don’t know what the intent is. For instance, if somebody looks at a picture and they truly believe that that’s what they saw, or they draw it, then that’s what they believe that they saw and I’m not going to impeach that for any reason. However, photographs, to our knowledge, videos of them? None. MMcD: To our knowledge, none have been posted or released. DB: And I would give my canine eyeteeth for one. AM: Do they exist? Aside from that, I cannot account for any of the other accounts concerning alleged Grays of non-human lineage. I don’t have that information and I cannot account for that. After 20 years of working with the folks that were under affidavits, signed as having worked with, it was not in our standard operating procedures or protocols. It was never spoken about, save – and no ill intent or umbrage to be taken – save I heard a lot of the senior operators snickering about the folklore that was injected into the UFOlogical communities worldwide. And that doesn’t mean that it’s not happening. I don’t know everything. All I know is what I’ve experienced and what I’ve learned during my 45 years. AM: As part of this disinformation about Serpo... it’s part of the story also that the Zetas are cooperating with the U.S. Army. Is that part of disinformation or is that true? DB: Well, I wouldn’t call them Zetas because they’ve never called themselves that, the ones of which I’m aware, anyway. But I’m not aware that they call themselves that. It’s like... I met an individual and I don’t want to apply a label to that individual that he would not want to apply to himself, like I wouldn’t want a label applied to me. The cooperation was DB: Oh yes, the photos exist. Yes. AM: The one they operated on. What about that one? They showed it... MMcD: The operation... the autopsy. DB: Oh... the alien autopsy business? AM: Yeah. DB: I’ve looked at that film very closely. That appears to be a reverse-engineered autopsy of a dead human being. [audience laughter] Appears. In other words, my best guess is that a cadaver was lying in a prone form on her tummy, had her back opened up, items placed inside, including phony organs, etcetera, turned over, and then they came in. None of these individuals, none of them who walked in with an alleged alien would have been dressed as you saw dressed. None of them. It was totally hokey to me. That’s the best word I could use. It just looked hokey and it frankly upset me a great deal because the polydactylist female – I believe there was more than five fingers – yeah, a normal human genetic condition, polydactyly as well as syndactyly. But... No.

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AM: Just one thing, there was a... about there being a… [unclear] I think about 50 cm and about his dressing, the Russians did the autopsy too? And I think they don’t dress like, you know, or, you same, in a fancy suit or expensive suits? DB: Bill Uhouse correctly testified to a P45 J-Rod at the Los Alamos National Laboratory with whom he worked for the use of diagnostic equipment for propulsion and avionics systems. I saw the benefit given to S4 of what he built, and in fact in our one DVD, his son, Will, and myself talk about what Bill developed with the particular J-Rod, the P45 J-Rod. That P45 J-Rod was onboard at the same time as Chi'el'ah, the P52 that I met that crashed in 1953. Ah... we’re running out of time? MMcD: At the end. AM: [inaudible] I realize you don’t speak about things religious but… [unclear] a time traveler. [laughs] DB: We’re all time travelers. [laughter] Now, wasn’t that diplomatic? Thank you.

**Transcript provided by the hard-working volunteer members of the Divine Cosmos/ Project Camelot Transcription Team. All the transcripts that you find on both sites have been provided by the Transcription Team for the last several years. We are like ants: we may be hidden, but we create clean transcripts for your enjoyment and pondering.**

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Project Camelot: Brian O'Leary's Presentation - Zürich Conference On Free Energy Joined By “Henry Deacon”
12 July 2009
expression that we know that something is wrong, or at least there’s something that is happening, something that is changing. It’s not necessarily wrong, but we are in the midst of a big change. It’s with great mixed feelings that I come from America. When I was a little boy and I was told by my parents that we won World War Two -- that was a good feeling. I didn’t, of course, know all the details, but I was raised with a feeling that we could do anything. Now, when I was eight years old, I wanted to go to the Moon. I would read the writings of Wernher von Braun and Arthur C. Clarke, and everybody thought I was crazy. When I was a senior in high school, I was asked to write an essay on an important topic. I wrote it on space satellites. The history teacher handed the paper back to me and said: Well-researched, but not relevant. [laughter] The following fall, Sputnik went up and twelve short years later, man allegedly landed on the Moon. [laughter] I use the word allegedly, because I don’t know, personally, whether the Moon landings were a hoax or real. How am I to tell, if I didn’t go there? And then, this raises the nagging question of epistemology: How do we know what we know? Well, when I was in school I became an Eagle Scout. I climbed the Matterhorn in 1962, and I was appointed as an astronaut to go to Mars, in 1967. So, you could see, I was raised with the point of view that we could do anything. But, a few things happened on the way to the vision. One was the war in Vietnam. That was in 1968, when I was told by the president of the United States then, Lyndon B. Johnson, that we would scrub the later Apollo flights and the Mars mission. Needless to say, I was very disappointed. So, I went to Cornell University to teach astronomy alongside Carl Sagan. And I became a peace activist, and I have been ever since. It was interesting last night that there was this feeling of anger that continued when we went to the Chinese restaurant to have roast duck, and a very angry man came up to our table and said: You Americans! Oh, Obama is bad schlesht. [laughs] [Ed note: We don’t know if this word is a made-up word or an actual foreign word.] So, you see, the tradition of anger continued, and the last thing I want to do is support any kind of effort towards war and torture.

[Ed note: Normally the transcripts that had any parts in them that had been difficult for the transcribers to hear were put in “audibles” in square brackets in red for Bill Ryan to attend to, fix, then he’d post the transcript; however, due to unexpected interruptions in the normal working process in Project Camelot, this normal process was not able to proceed forward, so the audibles were left in the square brackets.] BILL RYAN (BR): Are we live? TRANSLATOR: Yeah. BR: Ladies and gentlemen, my friend, colleague, and fellow retired mountaineer, Brian O’Leary. BRIAN O’LEARY (BO’L): Well, thank you. Sometimes I don’t even know what to say. I’m just overwhelmed with good feelings about all of you. Even those of you that are sometimes angry... [laughter and applause] …because, as you know, anger is a very important part of the process of transformation. Some of you may know about the work of Elisabeth Kübler-Ross -- about the phases of grief -- because, you see, we are grieving an old paradigm. We all know that we’re messing up the planet and we need all the help we can get, whether it’s through our ET visitors, or ourselves. Elisabeth Kübler-Ross did the very important work that we must go through, the experiences of the emotions of grief. The first stage is almost always denial, and most of humanity is in denial. Our beautiful, precious planet and all of nature is in danger and it’s with that kind of motivation that I approach what I will be sharing today. The second phase, and it’s not necessarily a linear progression, is anger. We heard that last night, and that’s perfectly okay. That’s much better than murdering and torturing people. It’s a healthy

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So, what I thought I’d do, to center myself and all of us, I’m going to play the piano for about five minutes. [applause] It helps center me. And, then we’ll kind of invoke positive energy here, so that we can go on with the talk. Thank you. [applause] [Brian plays piano for several minutes.] [applause] BO’L: Thank you. It was interesting that Bill introduced me last night as being the oldest person on the panel and I sometimes wonder what happened to all those years! All I know is that I’m acting as if this last trip is our last, and there’s a big job to do, if it is. But, I don’t think it is [laughs] because the world situation... let’s face it -- it’s very, very difficult. It’s easy to get angry. It’s easy to place blame on those that are suppressing things. And I, being a peace activist – and peace activists act in different ways – I visualize a big field of love enveloping everything, and that’s where the negativity dissolves. There’s a piece of the whole transformational picture, which I’ve taken it upon myself to have a good look at. That is: What should we do about the energy crisis? I’m sure most of you are aware of how deep the environmental problems of the Earth are. In 1975 I was an advisor – energy advisor – to the U.S. Congress, and I worked with Congressman Morris Udall, who was running for president on an environmental platform. In the effort, I was able to learn about what many of the options were for our energy future. But, at that time, I was very much in the mainstream, so the notion of free energy, or zero-point energy, or various advanced hydrogen and water chemistries, and cold fusion, didn’t occur to me. So I became a solar/wind advocate, and it’s still something that could, conceivably, solve our problems. But, all of this was part of a track that I was taking in my life, was to envision what realistically we could do, as humans, to create a sustainable future for humankind. In the process, I also went through a period of intense metaphysical exploration. That began to happen in 1979 when I was on the physics faculty at Princeton University. I started to have remote viewing experiences. I had a near-death experience, and I had various healing experiences. At that point, I began to realize that science, Western science, was very limited. And, because the other physicists at Princeton, my colleagues, six of whom were Nobel Laureates – there were 40 of us and we were all men – didn’t believe anything in the paranormal was real. So, I felt very lonely and felt compelled to leave Princeton, and it was at that time my career became endangered. [laughs] At this point, having now been in this outside-the-box mode for 30 years, I’m feeling more comfortable with it. Now, it was hard, financially, for me to get my children through college, but I really have enjoyed these 30 years. Because, not only was I able to explore many metaphysical concepts and have spiritual growth as well, but I was able to check in with new scientists and observe their experiments, all over the world, about the realities of paranormal phenomena. So, if it’s the healing, or whether it’s remote viewing, or morphogenetic fields, or UFO/ET phenomena, the power of positive intention, the power of meditators being able to change the properties of water, or free energy... every time I began to discover for myself the value, the importance, of these new sciences. And, the really good news about this is that the epistemology of this new science is exactly the same as that of mainstream science. So, you can have it all ways. What I’d like to do today is focus on one aspect of new science, and that’s the promise of clean, cheap, decentralized energy. So, now I’m going to sit down and take you on a little slideshow: The Energy Solution Revolution, which is also the title of my latest book. What I’m looking at now, because I think this is where the real answers lie. Having visited the laboratories of several dozen socalled free energy inventors, I have absolutely no doubt the technologies are very real. The concepts have already been proven. The Wright Brothers have already flown their first airplane, but we haven’t put it to practical use yet. So, the real action in this issue is not technical... it’s social and political. It’s very clear that these concepts have great promise for a sustainable future for the Earth, but the technologies have been suppressed, especially when they get to the point of being available to the public. And I began to learn how difficult it really is to get to the point of implementing technologies such as this, because it threatens vested interests. So, very appropriately here, and I think, maybe, if we turn the lights down a little… I love this quote from George Orwell, the author of 1984: In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. And we are certainly in one of those times. The great, late science fiction writer Isaac Asimov said: When stupidity is considered patriotism, it is unsafe to be intelligent. I’m going to talk a little bit about an example of the great threat to our precious planet Earth. Meredith and I live in Ecuador. We live in a beautiful spot that is in the Andes, which reminds me very much of the Alps... without the snow. Just to the east of us is the Amazon Basin. It’s the world’s largest intact rainforest, consisting of an area [the size] of most of Western Europe, and there are many indigenous peoples who are voluntarily isolated. It’s the rainforest with the greatest

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biodiversity on Earth and absorbs more carbon dioxide than just about any other area of the Earth. What you see here on this map, on the upper left side, is the country of Ecuador. It’s this area right here. [indicating map] So, this is Ecuador, and we live right here, and the Amazon is all in here. This is Peru here, Brazil, Bolivia, Colombia; and the yellow areas are all areas in which oil-drilling leases have been issued. There’s about a trillion Swiss Francs-worth of oil under the ground in these areas, and the governments, generally, would like the oil companies to come in and drill, because of their huge indebtedness to banking institutions in the First World. So, about one month ago, the indigenous peoples of Peru occupied a bridge to prevent the oil companies from coming into the rainforest. The president of Peru ordered helicopters with machine guns to murder them. This is an example of the kinds of things that are happening right now. This is the kind of news that’s hard to get on CNN. You have a little better opportunity here. But this is an example of just the kind of thing... You know, I often reflect about the green movement, and the green movement is moving too slowly. So, this is a quote from a writer from San Francisco, the San Francisco Chronicle. This is Mark Morford and he says: Much as I love the green movement, in the face of countless billions to be made by raping the planet for oil, they’re merely the equivalent of trying to water the rainforest with an eye-dropper. its most beautiful, biodiverse, rainforest national park, if the world community could match funds with lost revenues with Ecuador. Unfortunately, that’s 350 million dollars, or Francs. Three-hundred-and-fifty-million dollars per year to keep the oil in the ground; those are the revenues that would be lost. AUDIENCE MEMBER: Millions, or billions? BO’L: Millions. That’s still a lot. Does anybody have $350 million, maybe, to keep oil in the ground in the Amazon? [laughter] Because… AUDIENCE MEMBERS: [very faint; offering suggestions of who may have the money] BO’L: The Federal Reserve, yeah; AIG; maybe Goldman Sachs, the Lapis Pig. Anyway, this is an innovative idea. It’s a step in the right direction. But, solutions to the energy crisis do exist, but are suppressed by governments and industry through the profit motive [snorts like the Lapis Pig], self interest, and – this is a big word – incrementalism, meaning a little bit at a time, eye-dropper. It’s very clear that, if you were to really look at the data on what’s happening – regardless of how you come out on the global warming / climate change debate – because, even if it’s a whole reenergized, new energy solar system concept, the loading of carbon dioxide in the Earth’s atmosphere, through the routine burning of hydrocarbons, is acidifying the oceans and causing enormous amounts of pollution, respiratory disease, and at least some contribution to global warming and climate change. But, that’s just part of it. The amount of water pollution is enormous. The threats to sustainable agriculture are huge. So, we need new human systems that are Earth-oriented and visionary. As I pointed out the other night, we need to adopt the precautionary principle which states, basically, that we can’t go on as we’re going on. We will someday reach a tipping point that no amount of chemtrails, or other gross macro-engineering projects, will be able to solve. So, let’s create a much-more sustainable, friendly world for ourselves. What kind of criteria would we develop for our energy sources? They need to be clean, cheap, decentralized, and safe, as well as publicly accountable. In other words, the green movement has not been very effective. If we really want a sustainable solution for the Earth, we’re going to have to have clean energy. We’re not going to be able to do it with carbon cap and trading – carbon cap and trading: that’s a scheme to, basically, charge the polluters more money to… it’s a financial solution to a nonfinancial problem – or to sequester the carbon in caves. These are very gross solutions. Now, the president of Ecuador, who’s an interesting guy, has proposed that, maybe, Ecuador could keep its oil in the ground in This is a very, very tall order. No weapons use, no secrecy, no greed. You see, we need a whole new social contract, and it’s going to be up to us to create that. Now, most of the energy we now use is unsustainable. It’s very obvious that we’re going to wars of conquest for the oil... and the pollution, and climate change, etcetera, etcetera. Among the net energy non-solutions, of course, are hydrocarbons or fossil fuels – oil, coal and natural gas. Terrible! Terrible!

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Nuclear power is expensive and unsafe. Remember Chernobyl? And there’s no safe disposal of the high-level radioactive waste. There’s the potential of global proliferation of the technologies and weapons. So, some people say: Well, let’s have a hydrogen economy. Hydrogen burns clean. But hydrogen costs more to… it takes more energy to produce the hydrogen than you get out of the fuel, unless you do things to the hydrogen to manipulate its chemical nature. And, then, we have a form of over-unity, or free energy. Biofuels; biofuels, such as corn -- ethanol from corn -- don’t work. It’s another way of burning carbon. It burns a little bit cleaner, but you need a whole, big infrastructure to develop it. So that’s not gonna work, and it competes with agriculture! One sports-utility vehicle’s tank-full of biofuel... one tank-full of the sports-utility vehicle of biofuel could feed one hungry person in one year. Yet, in North America and parts of Europe, there’s a huge amount of corn being grown for ethanol. And that’s burning food! Solar and wind suffer from high cost. We’re talking somewhere in the vicinity of $20 to $40 trillion dollars for a solar or wind economy to replace current energy demand. It takes great materials and land use, and is intermittent and diffuse – meaning that it only works when the wind blows and the sun shines, and it’s not very concentrated. I would love for solar and wind to be the answer, but I think we’re in a new century now and we need to look forward rather than backward. So, the new energy technologies include the so-called zero-point energy devices. Yes, these are basically electromagnetic devices that, through the use of vibrating electrons – either through the rotary motion of a wheel with magnets or electromagnets, or through the vibrations of electrons within a solid-state device – can tap the enormous potential energy field of the vacuum. This field is called many different things; sometimes it’s called the etheric field; sometimes the zero-point field; sometimes it’s called the orgone energy field. There are many, many different words for it, and I believe it’s the same field that also underlies our consciousness, that we can truly be magicians and extract energy and information out of that field through our conscious intention. So, someday I see, envisioned, small solid-state devices that could go into your circuit breaker box or under the hood of your car. There’s also cold fusion, which is also called low-temperature, non-radioactive nuclear reactions. There’s a lot of confusion about cold fusion. [laughter] Two University of Utah chemists, Stanley Pons and Martin Fleishmann, discovered that, when you put a palladium cathode into a solution of heavy water, nuclear reactions would occur on So, if we look, for the past one hundred years – since the time of Tesla -- there’ve been hundreds of new energy researchers, but they’ve been suppressed by powerful interests. Only with modest investments, can we make the necessary breakthroughs. Okay, okay. Now, many mainstream scientists, including myself about 30 years ago, quoted our own bibles that basically said this violates the laws of thermodynamics. Well, the laws of thermodynamics are not laws. They’re only theories that apply to a certain narrow range of conditions. This is one case in which mainstream science is corrupted; many other examples, too. Another myth of free energy is that it’s so advanced [that] it must be further off into the future. So, let’s do what’s in front of us – windmills and solar collectors. And, I’m not saying windmills and solar collectors are bad, by the way. I think they’ll have many practical applications, especially at remote sites. But, to make this assumption that it’s so advanced, would be like to debate whether... airships, dirigibles, or balloons... which one to choose after the Wright Brothers first flew in 1903. The final myth is that we can trust governments and the marketplace to support the research and development. Nothing could be further from the truth! So, who are the suppressors of new energy? It turns out to be just about all of us, [laughs] and that’s why we don’t have it. There are the scientists, and we have already heard this, that scientism -- which itself is a religion, the religion of science, as it’s currently exercised in the Western world -- totally ignores the effects of consciousness, healing and other… many, many other new sciences that are longing to be born. The environmentalists are suppressing new energy – the people that call themselves environmentalists. And if you don’t believe me, try to reach Al Gore or any of the Green Party people. Mainstream environmentalism is very cautious. The most powerful governments and the large corporations are also suppressing free energy, because their own vested interests are threatened. So, they’re in denial of it, while some of the rest of us get angry. [laughs] Sort of like the denial, and then anger… the cathode. No radioactivity, but a great deal of heat resulted in the reactions and the formation of helium from hydrogen. Since 1989, there have been many replications of these experiments and yet, 20 years later, the mainstream media is just beginning to discover cold fusion. Then we also have advanced hydrogen and water technologies. These are special forms of hydrogen and water that can actually produce more energy than goes into the system, as measured by traditional means.

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And, by the way, Elisabeth Kübler-Ross’s next phase of grieving is usually bargaining: Yeah, maybe this part of the government will support the work. Maybe this corporation over here would want to do it. But it’s like fitting square pegs in round holes. And we have the mainstream media. Oh boy, do they ever love to spin stories! And now, 20 years after the cold fusion discovery, with hundreds of replications and a worldwide scientific community of cold fusion researchers, 60 Minutes on CBS finally ran a segment on cold fusion. But, they act as if: Well, you know, this thing isn’t real; but, maybe, it is after all – because they discovered it! So, so many vested interests are threatened by the possibility of an abundant, sustainable future with clean, breakthrough energy. We had a number of meetings among some of the well-known inventors and researchers of new energy, in Colorado, in 1993 and ’94. There’re some very well-known people in this picture, including Stefan Marinov, who was the physicist on the physics faculty, University of Graz, in Austria. He fell to his death a few years ago... likely not to be a suicide. Okay, so what we’re going to do in the very near future is to break for air, because it’s my understanding, it’s rather hot in here, isn’t it? We’re gonna have a five-minute break for air, so we can breathe. [applause] [resuming after the break] BR: Life may sometimes be full of surprises and we’re all creating this experience that we’re having right now. So, ladies and gentlemen, I would like to introduce to you my friend and colleague, Henry Deacon. [applause] HENRY DEACON (HD): Hello. I’ve been waiting many years to say something. Three years with… what, three years with Camelot? BR: Three years. HD: Waiting for a moment to feel right. Just a little thing inspired me [that] Brian said, about cold fusion. So many people I know don’t believe… still don’t believe it’s real. I’m still unsure about saying this, but once you say it, it’s over. Here's my American passport. [holds up passport] Notice its color. DAVID WILCOCK (DW): It's brown, for those of you who can't see it from the audience. HD: It's not the normal color, okay? Just to show that my background is different. It's a government passport, for official business. So, it's just a very small thing, but it definitely makes it very solid and real, and I've identified a location. So, as of this... once it hits the Internet... TRANSLATOR: Excuse me, could you say the geographic location again? HD: Monterey, California, near Carmel, California. I worked with different professors on many different projects, including a space satellite that went... was launched on the Space Shuttle mission one hundred and something, with John Glenn, his last mission. A hundred and fifty, or something like that. I don't want to go anymore, because I don't want to take any more time, but just that is enough. This could go on forever. BO'L: It's a special capacitor that produces over-unity energy. It's been shown, time and time again, in various physics laboratories. And it's been demonstrated in several laboratories. HD: To use the... it's to tap the zero-point energy. BO'L: That’s correct. HD: And, it wasn't even in a classified room; but, unless... if you walked by and didn't know about it, you wouldn't know what was going on. Because, it's in the postgraduate school environment, which caters to military and government – the civilian component of the government of high rank – who go there for graduate, postgraduate-level research. HD: I no longer... I have not been employed. I have no income, other than disability for four, five years now, since I left everything. What I'd like, simply, to address the cold fusion. I mentioned to Brian that, when I was at the Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, California, it was open to the public. I don't think it is now; it may not be. But, this is strongly identifying the location at that time, the location of what I'm about to talk about. In the basement of the Physics Department building, there were some experiments on the Casimir Effect. [to Brian] What is the Casimir Effect? DW: It says Official on it and has special government identification inside which he's showed me and I can verify.

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[applause] I do want to thank David for sharing the room. [David laughs] Except, I wish he didn’t read my mind all the time. [laughter] DW: Well, the fact of the matter is that my other witness, Daniel, confirmed that Monsanto made a little box about this big, and you could run your whole house on it. They were used in many, many space probes, and it has been available since at least the ’60s. [to Henry] Can you confirm that? HD: Oh, yes, absolutely. And then, Brian, talking about palladium... well, I actually purchased some palladium a few years ago. [laughs] It has very interesting properties of absorbing hydrogen and being able to separate... it’s a great storage medium for hydrogen gas, a safe storage medium. So, maybe, it’s above value now; we don’t know where it will head. [laughs] BO’L: Yeah. The point here, really, is that there are so many technologies. Even in the break, some people came up to me and said: Did you know about this person, or this person, or this person? It’s everywhere and, yet, it’s still been held back. So, at this point, our job is to become more public about it, and to demand that we are allowed to develop this in a way that’s socially responsible. The photographs that I’m about to show are of some of the inventors, some of the many inventors, that are very lonely and isolated. There’s this device here; there’s this device that’s official. So we’re dealing with almost an embarrassment of riches, meaning there are so many different devices, so many technologies -- any one, or some of which, could do the trick. In a way, it’s really remarkable how complete the suppression has been. And yet, to my way of thinking, it’s our next step in our quest for a new science and a world of sustainability. AUDIENCE MEMBER: Is he putting his life on the line by coming out on this stage? [Referring to Henry Deacon.] DW: You bet your ass he is. [applause] HD: Someone last night told me I had gray hair. [laughs] So, yes, a friend. BO’L: But it isn’t white yet. [laughter] HD: It may turn that way pretty quickly now. [laughs] I would like to mention something else that’s offline for just a minute, if it’s okay. It had to do with something last night, but it’s positive. Dr. John Mack of Harvard University who... how many people here have heard of him? Okay. DW: About half. HD: Someone explain who he was. I can’t exactly do that. The first day I went, it was in the Student Union, and they had an advertisement on the wall; it says the meeting is at this night, at this time. And I would look in the door -- many doors where the meetings were, for different clubs -- and I looked in the door and it was dark, like nobody there. So, I tried next week... still dark. So, I just opened the door, and there’re some people; they’re all just sitting on the floor, complete silence in the dark, and they’re all Chinese. I sat down, and I understood what was going on after about a week or so, [laughs] and I started practicing this method. And, anyway, I won’t go into Yang Chen Qi Gong anymore at the moment. But, later, I learned that Dr. Mack went to China, not too long before he died, to investigate some phenomena with his BO’L: I could. He was a good friend of mine, a close colleague of mine. He was a professor of psychiatry at Harvard University, who did extraterrestrial abduction research. He was, unfortunately, killed in an automobile accident – this one may have really been an accident – in London about three or four years ago. His abduction research is very important, because he discovered that the most common denominator of the messages that the ETs gave to the abductees, was to express how perilous our environmental situation is on the Earth. And this is directly out of his latest book, Passport to the Cosmos. And I share that concern. You can see that Meredith and I are both just tremendously concerned about the future of our Earth. And, as the result of this research of John Mack’s, he came to the same conclusion. HD: He had a... before I go on with that. I realize more and more -- especially since I, for some reason, started working with David, even at a distance -- once you get locked in and go with the flow of the Universe, for lack of a better word, something very magical happens. Everything you are [gets] synchronized in; everything happens in amazing ways; and each of us can do, no matter who you are, can change the whole future of the whole world – each of you. [applause] Yes, you have to be patient, sometimes, and wait and not push things. Back to Dr. John Mack: When I went back to school, and went back to graduate school for further education; I was at Purdue University, and I learned something new, a new technique. It was called Yang Chen Qi Gong.

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abductees. And, in general, many of his abductees had been practicing this. It’s a meditation, a form of meditation. And two of the people that were advanced there were well known and documented in the university, and now they’re all professors in different places in the world. Well, especially, one named Dr. Fonzu; [Ed note: Unsure about the spelling.] he was in a state of non-eating for many months. He didn’t have to eat anything; it’s called bigu. What I’m getting at with John Mack is that, I think, I said his abductees -- many of them had been practicing Qi Gong; but, I believe it also applies to other forms of meditation, and it appears that it opens yourself up to contact – and they can be good or bad contact. But, I just want to make you aware of that, if you practice. So, when you’re practicing, you know, it’s almost like you’re opening yourself up to that. It’s like a beacon. Okay. Thank you. [applause] BO’L: Thank you. Well, we have just had a Deacon Beacon, [laughter] shedding light on a very important topic. And again, the point is that the number of devices and inventors are scattered all over the world. About 10 years ago, I made a point of traveling around the world and this [unsure of this word “this”] visiting some of them. So, now I’m about to show some photographs of these fellows, if that’s appropriate. BR: Just before you start that, Brian, I just want to publicly thank Henry for his contribution here. It’s an act of great courage and great service. And, I want to thank you for your friendship, your support, and your huge contribution to everything that we are trying to do here, all of us together in this room. HD: This is why I came here. BR: And, on behalf of Project Camelot, I would love to invite you to the Camelot Conference in Los Angeles in September, if you’d be willing to take the stage and share more of your personal perspectives on the New World that we have waiting for us. We’re not putting you under pressure for any kind of an answer, but is this something you would consider? HD: Can I come in through the Mexican-California border? [laughter] BR: We’ll smuggle you in, don’t worry. BO’L: You have an official passport. [laughter] BR: Okay... [applause] HD: You remember 2001: A Space Odyssey? [At] the end of the movie, there was a star-child. This may have been mentioned already, a metaphor: This world is not ending at all. It’s just going through birth pangs, birth pains. A new child, you know? That’s all. [applause] DW: Could you briefly say something about what the other people [Ed. note: referring to ETs] that you’ve met are like to be around? HD: They make you feel very, very happy and good -- almost all of them. When he says people... just we’re all people in this Galaxy -- maybe a little bit different-looking; but, it’s like different flowers, that’s all. So, usually, it’s a very elating, uplifting feeling. You may laugh. The first time -- you’ll be laughing, that’s all. So, if you see something -- like in the Report from Iron Mountain -- many of the possible things to... alternatives to war, creating fictitious enemies; one of the things that was listed in there in the early ’60s was a threat from outer space. You can look at that report. It is not fictitious at all. President John Kennedy asked that the Rand Corporation think-tank about the desirability of ending wars and bringing about peace – what the feasibility and possibility would be. So the conventional-thinking geniuses came up with alternatives; that’s all, alternatives to war. They thought that, if they took all the money that went into war and into the national reconnaissance organizations, that they would be able to feed and house everyone on the planet. And then what would the people do? So, we have to have something; so, we create enemies. Just like George Orwell... we create threats. We create environmental menace. That was mentioned: environmental menace. This was written... this report was put out in the ’60s. You can see -- it’s all happening. BO’L: It’s very sobering, isn’t it? The conventional thinkers and the scenarios they come up with, which always seem to involve control. We have to think differently. HD: Think different. ...Apple computer. [laughter] DW: I would like to say, while we’re on stage, that there was one time when I was on the phone with Henry. HD: No. Mr. Neumann, the real name. DW: Mr. Neumann, the real name, and he was called by one of these clandestine agencies, and he put it on speaker phone on his cell phone. I witnessed the entire conversation take place between them. For someone to try to tell me that he set this up is pathetic. It was completely random, after we’d been talking for three hours. HD: That’s how you run away, and it’s like the movie, The Prisoner. You run away, and then they find you, and they offer you work, and then you run away again, and they offer you another job.

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DW: I would say that Henry, or Art, as his real name is, is the most-knowledgeable witness ever to come forward in human history about these projects. I again want to personally thank you for volunteering to do this for all of us. I do consider you a hero for doing this. HD: It’s just what I came here for. [applause] [Ed note: ‘Henry Deacon’ is Art Neumann for the record, so all references to ‘Henry Deacon’ (HD) will include Art Neumann, hence (HD/AN) from this point on.] DW: Brian, what world would we have if these technologies get freed up? What can we visualize for the future? BO’L: It would be a world of great abundance, if it’s properly managed. It’s a big IF. And so, it’s up to us to create social systems to facilitate the ethical use of these technologies. They are truly breakthrough. For example, you could have pure water simply by desalinating the ocean water. But there are many, many other things that can happen, too. You can have abundant food. Because, you see, energy no longer is a block. The kind of new world that one visualizes here very quickly becomes a very, very good world. And, part of the good news about this is that we can plan it. We can plan this program, the whole thing, including making the transition as painless as possible. The United States Department of Energy recently issued a request for proposals about new energy technologies. I responded to the proposal, and I called it Impacts of a Breakthrough Energy Economy. In the proposal, I proposed a novel idea, which is to develop – even if it’s hypothetical – a question: What are public attitudes toward a world of breakthrough energy? Let’s bring this discussion out to the public. Let’s be open about this. So, that was part of the proposal. The other was to get together a number of people, like as an advisory group without vested interests, to advise on scenarios of a clean breakthrough energy future. So far, that hasn’t been done. It’s been kept secret, and now we have to be willing to be bold enough to think about such a future. Guess how much money I asked for, for the study. One dollar. [laughter]The reason for that, of course, is that energy, like everything else, should be our birthright. At the very least, a world of breakthrough energy will buy us some time, so that we can truly plan a sustainable future for the Earth. DW: I’d be interested in seeing more of these slides. Do you have other technologies? BO’L: Yes. Let’s look at that. DW: But, that was great; that was great. [applause] BO’L: Well, let’s do it. Okay. DW: Because this is provable stuff. You’re saying these guys have hardware and it already works, right? BO’L: Oh yeah! This is a trip I took about 10 years ago, all around the world. For example, Paramahamsa Tewari has a magnetic motor which the government of India has given him, actually, money and laboratory space to develop this. He starts it up as a generator, then he unplugs it and it’s a freerunning motor – or a free-running generator. It’s the other way round. He starts it as a motor and, then, it becomes a free-running generator. Suji Inumata had another such device in Japan. Some of you may have heard of Yull Brown. He developed Brown’s gas, which is a very special form of water, which people are now using to burn cleaner fuels, as additives, and also to actually run cars on water. Next one: This is a welding device that Yull Brown developed from Brown’s gas, which is really extraordinary. Sparky Sweet – I talked about that in the workshop this morning. He’s a retired engineer from General Electric, and he has in his hand a specially-conditioned magnet which lit up a bank of light bulbs. Next slide, please: John Hutchison, Canadian inventor, who is sort of like a reincarnated Nikola Tesla, and is able to create antigravity. This was an aluminium – that’s how Canadians call aluminum – bar, and he thrashed it with huge amounts of energy he was able to generate. Next slide: Tom Bearden – with a little artistic license here – Tom is still with us on the Earth, and he’s a brilliant theoretician of free energy. How many of you have heard of Tom Bearden? Yeah, about half of you, a little less; he wrote a book called Energy from the Vacuum. It’s very technical, but he, basically – his bottom-line message is that the electrical engineers have Maxwell’s equations all wrong. They neglect the most important term in Maxwell’s equation, which is the so-called scalar term, which contains, basically, the information you need to extract energy from the zero-point energy field. These things are very hard to explain, by the way, and you probably want to see a device right on the table now in front of you. For that, I apologize. What we really need to have is a concerted effort among engineers and inventors to bring this to the next level of proof. Many people think you can just go down to Wal-Mart and buy your own free energy gizmo, but we’re not there yet. It takes time and money and effort to get to the point where we’ll have the gizmo on the table. So, at this point, the important thing is to visualize that it’s possible to have this. You don’t even have to believe it; [laughter]

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just visualize the possibility, and, then, ask the question: Why aren’t we doing it? DW: I was talking yesterday about how all 4,000 pyramids and ancient sites have been built on this geometric grid around the Earth. These geometric lines represent where the most torsionfield energy comes from. When you have a cold fusion device on or near one of these lines, it will work very well. The 60 Minutes documentary he spoke of revealed that, in some places, it doesn’t work at all. This is almost certainly because those areas are not on the grid. I would also like to say something about Dr. Eugene Mallove, if you don’t mind. BO’L: Go ahead. DW: He had a working tabletop device that always worked. The only person he told about this was my colleague, Richard Hoagland. They were about to go to Washington, D.C. and show it to Senators. They were going to announce this on the air with me on a Saturday night. Friday afternoon, [speaking emotionally] Dr. Eugene Mallove was bludgeoned to death in his back yard. [sighs] The killing has to stop. [applause] BO’L: I know. It really upset me a great deal when it happened, because at the time, I had founded the New Energy Movement, and he was going to be the keynote speaker. And I became the keynote speaker and moved to Ecuador. [David laughs] Not out of fear, actually, because Meredith and I enjoy our life there very, very much. So, that wasn’t the only reason, but I was very upset for quite a while when that happened. And another tragic example is Stefan Marinov. Actually, he’s in that picture too. He’s the man on the right and up a little bit. DW: In the gray sweater. BO’L: Okay, the one in the middle. That’s Stefan Marinov. I knew him well. He was a physics professor at the University of Graz in Austria. He was found jumping – but I think the right story is falling – from the 10th story of the library building at the University of Graz about four years ago. He was a very jolly person. And one eyewitness saw him falling backwards, falling backwards, as if he were pushed. He left no suicide note, and he was one of the most positive, highly-spirited persons I’ve ever met. He was sort of like the head of the European free energy movement. This happened about four years ago. HD/AN: Don’t be afraid of dying. It’s just changing form. [applause] BO’L: That’s why the concept of karma is so important. HD/AN: It all depends on what you want to do here, if you can, first. BO’L: By the way, the other scientist on the left here, Randall Mills, he founded BlackLight Power, which is a very special

Should we not leave no stone unturned in our quest for clean energy? It’s a very logical question, if we want a sustainable future for planet Earth. Next slide: This is a very sad story. Eugene Mallove was editor of Infinite Energy magazine. He was the chief science writer for MIT, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, and he was assigned the job of debunking or ridiculing the original discovery of cold fusion. Some nuclear physicists at MIT were not... or claimed not to be able to replicate the experiment. But these were nuclear physicists who had a very strong vested interest in their own hot fusion Tokomak reactors, a concept that has, so far, cost the U.S. government and taxpayers tens of billions of dollars. HD/AN: It keeps them employed, though. [laughter] BO’L: But they knew nothing about electrochemistry, which is what this concept is all about. So Eugene Mallove discovered that the nuclear physicists actually committed fraud and fudged the data, so as to make it look like they did not replicate it, which led the late Sir Arthur C. Clarke to say: This could well be the greatest scandal in scientific history. This was in 1989, 1990. And now, for 20 years, hundreds of people have replicated and done successful cold fusion experiments. And then, we’ll interject something here that David just informed me about. Because you would think that: Okay it works -where’s the tabletop device? Let’s make one. Let’ just do it! It should be easy. Well, it hasn’t been quite as easy as you might expect, for at least two reasons. The one reason that I am familiar with is that many of these free energy devices respond to the consciousness of the experimenter. This is reminiscent of particle physics experiments, in which the observer changes the properties of the observed. So, many rigorous scientists have not touched cold fusion because they believe that because it doesn’t work all the time, it doesn’t work any of the time. And, David, you have another explanation about why it may work sometimes and not work sometimes.

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form of hydrogen in which he found that energy states of hydrogen can be lower than the traditional ground state. HD/AN: How low can you get? BO’L: Quite low and you can get about 100 times more energy out of a hydrogen plasma tube, than you could get with ordinary hydrogen. And he’s discovered... well, he’s made many discoveries in this and has even developed a theory around it called Classical Quantum Mechanics. I think that, having been in the world of physics myself -- it’s fair to say that physics is in for a big change. And unfortunately, like the particle collider here in Switzerland, and many other state-ofthe-art kinds of directions, it’s not as fertile direction as free energy and the new science of consciousness. And, isn’t it interesting that quantum theory itself predicts and shows that consciousness does exist? Because the act of observation creates the physical reality you observe! Most physicists ignore that fact and go about their materialistic ways. HD/AN: Well, at Livermore many, many, many decades ago, I found it quite novel that, after some research of the top scientists under Edward Teller, they were passing around a book to each other called The Tao of Physics. [inaudible comment from audience] HD/AN: The Way – it was a metaphysical book, you know, because they realized what was going on a long time ago at the Q-level clearance, Above Top Secret. BO’L: Edward Teller, by the way, is the father of the hydrogen bomb; basically originated the Star Wars program for Ronald Reagan, and loved to create chemtrails and other things in space to screen out sunlight to offset global warning – and does it with great delight, like Dr. Strangelove. HD/AN: Edward, would you please explain where you’re coming from? I still don’t understand you. BO’L: And, by the way, he’s passed over, but he was certainly quite a stereotype of a boss. HD/AN: His two babies were Los Alamos National Labs – that was his big baby – and then Livermore National Labs, which was Livermore Labs, his second baby. DW: But you wouldn’t know anything about those? HD/AN: No. And then, [it was] interesting how they kept changing the name, and that [was] very expensive, changing the name of Livermore Labs. It was Lawrence Livermore Labs; then they changed it to Lawrence Livermore National Labs – and, at the same time, it was the United States Atomic Energy Commission – and, then, it was the U.S. Energy Research Department – ERDA. BO’L: Oh yes, Administration. Energy Research and Development BO’L: And, that’s what you were told at the meeting. It’s obvious. It’s out there in the public domain. I think some of the scarcity is created artificially. But, regardless of how you think of it, the hydrocarbon age that we’re now in is a dinosaur. Literally. HD/AN: Oh, one simple thing. I keep interrupting. BO’L: Go ahead. HD/AN: I wanted to mention that I was very surprised... because, you know, it’s over for me now. Bye-bye. No... [laughs] Project Shiva – Shiva Nova – a laser fusion project; you can look it up on the Internet. It’s on BBC lately: Oh, laser fusion. Something new. That’s what they finished in the ’70s. Most American scientists were not even allowed access to that project. When I went in to the project, I was very surprised at the scientists I saw there, where they were from. Red China! Our technology, that technology, American science technology at the highest levels, was being given to the top Chinese people, in Red China -- what does that mean? HD/AN: And, then, it was Energy Research and Development Agency, so they had to change all the paperwork again. Then they changed it to the Department of Energy. It was all the same thing. I don’t understand that. BO’L: By the way, the U.S. Energy Department spends approximately... I think it’s $30 billion dollars a year, maybe it’s more now, and it’s almost all on fossil fuel and nuclear energy research and nuclear weapons. HD/AN: In 1976 or so, we had a meeting. I had to go a big meeting, a high-level conference, classified conference, in a big auditorium and they put up a graph up here, a projection of oil reserves. And, then, they said in 30 years, we’ll be running out of oil, and that was Top Secret. I don’t understand what’s going on. It’s confusing. Why was that Top Secret? And is it true, we’re running out of oil? BO’L: Yeah. The known oil reserves on the Earth will give us another 30 to 100 years, depending on how fast we gobble it up. There’s a whole movement called the Peak Oil Movement, who believes that we’re now at the top, at peak production of oil, and then we are going to descend the slippery slope of scarcity. HD/AN: That’s what we were told at the meeting.

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BO’L: Okay. Maybe we should move along here, and I’ll show a few more here, because we have been told we’re going to have a break at 4:30, which is 15 minutes from now. So, like David yesterday, I’m going to fast-forward! [David laughs] What I want to point out is that we have had a few meetings among free energy researchers. This is quite a distinguished group, with a little artistic license as well. I’ll just mention a few names: Tom Bearden, Hal Puthoff, Peter Graneau from MIT. [indicates a man in photograph] That’s Peter Graneau, me, Meredith. And Jim Carrey! What is Jim Carrey doing in a group of free energy eggheads? Well, he was filming Dumb and Dumber, while we were trying to get smart and smarter! [laughter, applause] There’re some other distinguished… There’re Stefan Marinov; Paramahamsa Tewari from India; Suji Inumata; and many, many other recognizable people. Unfortunately, the software billionaire that funded this effort, decided not to fund any of our work, because we were not dipping into the river of optimized profits. [snorts like a pig] Next slide: We’ll go through these rather quickly. Let’s just go on. Two more. A good Tom Bearden quote, but not enough time. Adam Trombly. Adam is a close colleague of mine and somebody who came up with a free energy device way back, about 30 years ago. He was told by the U.S. Department of Defense to never work on this again, and had his device confiscated. So, he started Project Earth, following the tradition of Buckminster Fuller. I think it’s a wonderful quote and I’ll say it: There is a limitless and practically-useful energy anywhere you stand or sit. We can feel it and we can be it. We can tap into this with real technologies. We can light our homes and drive our quiet clean vehicles as the wounds of our tortured Earth are healed forever. Let’s take our planet back. Let’s start now! [applause] Okay, now we have to really move fast because my preprogrammed talk is being truncated. Here’s Buckminster Fuller. Shortly before his death, Buckminster Fuller came into knowledge that free energy existed. And he was such a positive thinker. He was overjoyed. He said: I’m glad I have lived long enough to see this. It is simply wonderful! I hope and pray you will live long enough to see the principle upon which this artifact is based become the new energy source for all passengers on Spaceship Earth. Next slide: At Montesueños, our retreat, we had what’s called the Phoenix Gathering about a year ago. This was a group of visionaries that flew in from all over the world, and we were given one question to ask ourselves: How can we create a sustainable future for the Earth? What I discovered during the course of this one-week intensive workshop was that there were different cultures represented, who weren’t talking with one another. And so, for example, the issue of free energy was not considered important, because the people came in with pre-conceived ideas about what kind of future we should have. It brings back the famous Bertrand Russell quote: The resistance to a new idea increases as the square of its importance. So, we’re talking about supplanting a multi-trillion dollar hydrocarbon / nuclear energy economy. Next slide: This is just photographs of the conference. And, so we had these different cultures. We had the pragmatists lead by a progressive lawyer from New York; and, because I couldn’t give him a ten-minute explanation for free energy, he denied it. Then, the deep ecologists – these are the people that really think the Earth is in deep trouble. But, they also, maybe, reflect a lot of the Green Movement, in that they’re not looking at visionary solutions, but going back to the farm. Then there are the truth-seekers, which is represented by a lot of people in this room, that really want to know what’s going on behind the scenes. And, then, the spiritualists—these are people that see the Unity in everything. But, the people weren’t talking with one another, and I’m going to suggest that we need some of all of these features to do the necessary synthesis. Next slide: Arthur C. Clarke, the late Arthur C. Clarke: Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. Next one: Martin Luther King: To ignore evil is to become an accomplice to it. And that doesn’t mean that we need to go and blame evil, and fight them, but we should be willing to understand that malevolence does exist, and we need to do something about it. Next slide: So, this is the conclusion of this talk in my new book: Embracing the Possibility of Breakthrough Energy, or what I call an “energy solution revolution,” should be our Mandate, not an idle speculation to be ignored, ridiculed, or feared. Next slide: Well, I’m just going to show about four slides. I was going to do a whole piano/slide gig, but I’m not going to do that now... VOICE: Boo... [laughter] BO’L: ...because I want to give Bill his allotted time. But these are photographs... Basically Meredith and I, over the past five years, have created a beautiful retreat in the Andes of Ecuador. For example, last January, Bill, and Kerry, and George Green came, and we had two conferences, actually. One was called “Crisis and Opportunity.” The other was called The Camelot Conference, appropriately called, because I’m sure that, in coming up with the name Project Camelot, it goes back to the days when there was visionary thinking, where there was the Good King, or the energy of the Good King, that wanted to help humanity. Even the years of John F. Kennedy were called “The Camelot Years”.

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Our goal in creating Montesueños, which is really Spanish for “mountain dreams”, was to hold these kinds of events, to create a new world, if we can take it. And so, in the next three or four slides, we’ll just show you some architectural shots. It’s one of the most beautiful spots I’ve ever seen on the planet. So, we have two main buildings, eight bedrooms, plenty of conference space, and we warmly invite you to come to one of our conferences or to just stay and relax with us. And this is the new book, The Energy Solution Revolution, which this talk was all about. The next slide is the last slide. Well, that’s the next-to-last slide, I think. [laughter] That’s one of the views from Montesueños. And I know, Bill, you had a good time. [laughter] I have to explain this for one minute [referring to last slide], if I may have one more minute. You heard a reference last night to the Lapis Pig. Here he is, the original. Now, he has a swelled head. He believes that the bankers have it right, and that the military-industrial complex is very good. So, even though he has been designated guardian of our Treasury, he has this vision of having a statue created of himself, 100 meters high, made of pure lapis lazuli. He’s just collected $287-billion dollars on credit default swaps with AIG, and now wants to drill the Amazon for one trillion dollars worth of oil and become the world’s first trillionaire. This is an example of reducing what’s going on to absurdity. We have to have fun with this and at the same time experience the emotions of change. The next slide, and I believe the last slide, is our information. The last slide gives the information about how to reach us. What I’d like to do is conclude with a one-minute meditation. David suggested this last night. I think it’s a wonderful idea. And so, just kind of relax, loosen your clothes, your body and so forth. And just close your eyes and breathe a deep breath in. Feel the love and light that’s present in this room right now, then let go of any negativity in your out-breath, any tension, over-active mind, stress. Just let it all go with each breath, breathing again deeply from your stomach. Ahhhh... then exhale. And, then, imagine now a bright light coming through the top of your head with each breath in, and allow that light to surround your head and your whole body. And let that light spread out to the universe for the highest good of everybody. Let it wrap over the planet Earth, and let us become empowered to transform ourselves to the light we really are and the beauty of Nature all around us. Just stay with that for about a few seconds. As you breathe in, with each breath, allowing the light to spread more and more... to your neighbors, to this room, to the city of Zurich, Switzerland, this beautiful country; and let the light spread around the world to everybody. Let all negativity dissolve within this light, because, from the darkness dawns a new light. And one more deep breath in. Then exhale, and then gradually come back into the room. We give thanks for this opportunity to come together at the Volkshaus, and with gratitude toward Bill, and Ruth, and the Ground Crew, the other speakers, the translators, that we can create a truly new world. Thank you. [applause] RUTH HUBER (RH), translator, speaking German and then English: Bill made the suggestion to finish off the conference and round it up right now.

BR: I didn’t really have any rousing speech finished for the last section of today; and, even if I did, I couldn’t possibly cap the presentation and the finale that Brian, aided by Henry and David, has just offered you here. What I do want to do... I want to ask if Dan and Marci are in the room. Are they here? RH: No. BR: They’re not around. I don’t blame them at all, actually. I understood they held a wonderful workshop this morning, and they deserve a little bit of time and space, and that’s wonderful. What I do want to do is just stress again that here we’ve seen in front of us the opportunity that we have of creating the experience that we want. I want to thank everyone who made this possible. I want to thank Ruth, who’s shared this vision with me, and held it through a lot of interesting times for many months, and, without whom, this would not have happened. [applause] I want to thank the Swiss Ground Crew, because it wouldn’t have happened without them either. [applause] Stand up, please. Stand up. Tina, stand up. RH [in German, then English]: They did a tremendous amount of work, all together.

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[applause while Ground Crew, all in red t-shirts, assembles in front of stage] BR: We’re going to have to do this again sometime; otherwise, I don’t know what people are going to do with these t-shirts. [laughter] And this isn’t just the end of a conference. I want you to consider this as being the start of something else. I want you guys to organize conferences of your own. I want you guys to speak at conferences of your own. I want you guys to encourage others to hold conferences of their own. Kerry Cassidy and I are going to be in Barcelona in two weeks’ time. We invite you all to come to Barcelona. Art, do you want to come to Barcelona? RH: Yeah. [applause] HD/AN: I’ll be there, too. I’m trying to find my Excalibur Sword. [laughter] BR: There’s a bunch of people holding a conference in Amsterdam on the 1st of August. So, find anyone with a badge with a Dutch flag on it and ask them what’s going on and they’ll tell you. I’ve been invited to Poland on the 5th and 6th of September. I’m delighted to be going there. I’ll go anywhere you like, if you make the coffee good enough. [laughter] And, so probably would Henry, except that he likes Lahsee. [unsure of word] And I have a very strong feeling that all kinds of amazing things are going to happen at the Camelot conference in Los Angeles on the 19th and 20th of September. David Wilcock will be there. Henry will be there, I hope. HD//AN: Immigration problems. BR: Immigration problems. Oh, right! Doctor Pete Peterson has told us that he will be there. And, based on our experience this afternoon, who knows who else will be there? It’s possible that the next time the Swiss Ground Crew will be wearing their red shirts is for another event here in Zurich, where David Icke is coming on the 14th of November. And so, there’s a lot going on, and there has been talk just today of an event held by the German Ground Crew, and this is being created as I speak. Meanwhile, Brian is holding his own event in August... and I cannot remember the dates, Brian. BO’L: 22nd and 23rd. And I think George Green will be there. We hope you will be there, but we realize you’re traveling a lot, so we can create another Camelot conference at Montesueños and we hope you can come. BO’L: This is actually new to me, but it’s in Switzerland. [translator gives details in German] BR: Everything that’s happened this weekend is going to be on the Internet in some form and, for all I know, some of it may already be; and so, all of this is recorded for a lot more people to be inspired by than the 300-plus who are here in this room. I jumped the gun there, actually, because David, I wanted to ask you, is there anything that you are doing that you would like to mention here and invite people to take part in? DW: I will be speaking at The Secrets Conference in Phoenix, Arizona, [November 21-24, 2009] and I’ll be sharing the stage at some point with Disclosure pioneer, Dr. Steven Greer, which I’m very happy about. I’m also doing an event in Toronto in September, and that’s the weekend of September 11th. I’ll be speaking the entire weekend and singing some of my new music, so you get about 16 hours of the kind of lecture content you saw yesterday. In November, I have a five-day resort getaway vacation in Hawaii that will be happening; and, next summer, we’re going to have a crop circle tour in England for a week. In general I just want to thank every one of you for being here. I only see reflections of myself and I’m very pleased with it. I do believe there’s only one of us here, so please don’t tear me to pieces as I’m trying to leave the room. [laughter] But, seriously, I hope that what we can all take from this experience is the gratitude for knowing the truth and the challenge to use it. Thank you Bill, for bringing us out here. And Ruth. [applause] BR: I want to thank the people who’ve been manning the cameras. It’s been quite hard work and you’ve done an incredibly important job back there. Just give a round of applause to the camera people, without whom this would not be made available to the rest of the world. [applause] BR: Art, are there any immigration problems going to Ecuador? HD/AN: Not that I know of. BR: I think you’d really like Vilcabamba. HD/AN: I could live 156 years, like I was supposed to. [laughs] BO’L: Right. It’s the Valley of Longevity and very healthy. Fresh organic food and perfect climate. [applause] BR: It’s the most wonderful food I’ve ever tasted in all of my life. I’ve been asked to mention the Free Energy Congress. Brian, you know exactly about as much of this as I do.

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I’ve spent a lot of time on a lot of different planets in the last few million years, and none of them have had as many countries and languages as this one. [laughter] So, I want to thank the translators for doing an invaluable job here this weekend. [applause] Ruth Huber...? RH: OK. Ja. Ruth Huber is my name. Ja. [laughs] BR: You German-speaking people who are interested in anything to do with spiritual growth, you’ve got to read her book. [applause] Rob Fleischer from Exopolitics Germany, [applause] who is going to be speaking in Barcelona at the Exopolitics Summit. Thomas Kirschner from NEXUS Magazine, who has given us a huge amount of support. [applause] Kristina Hollenvager. [sp?] Kristina, are you in the room? [applause] Tell her to stand up. So, it takes a lot of people and lot of work, a lot of intention, and a combined vision to hold a conference like this. It’s not easy, but it’s worth it. So, don’t do the things in life, which are easy -- do the things in life, which are worth it. I want to thank you all for being here. We’re going to be around for a little bit, I think, to talk to people. This is the intention that we have, is to make ourselves available to talk to people. But, more importantly, make sure that you talk with each other. This is a networking event. We do hope to see you here again in Zurich sometime. Thank you. [applause] [ends with Brian O’Leary playing piano and the murmur of voices, people talking to each other in the background] **Transcript provided by the hard-working volunteer members of the Divine Cosmos/ Project Camelot Transcription Team. All the transcripts that you find on both sites have been provided by the Transcription Team for the last several years. We are like ants: we may be hidden, but we create clean transcripts for your enjoyment and pondering.**

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Project Camelot: Dan Burisch at the Zurich Conference
His Statement, 16 July 2009
"Hello, great people. Marcia and I were so blessed to have met such wonderful people in Zurich, and Bill Ryan and the Ground Crew treated us wonderfully. We thank them all! We will have more to say about this in the near future, after I have rested. On an "off the subject matter," I was also told that another major researcher may be available to speak with us, about Lotus, in Spring 2010, and we will keep everyone informed of the possible venue. It will be by invitation only - remember the GOLDEN EAGLES tickets? SOMETHING ABOUT IT. We are not new to difficult subjects and can quickly see through someone 'talking the talk, but not walking the walk.' I will not argue the validity of basic germ theory, an underlying motive from only a few (amongst the many good people) we encountered, in any effort to counter their "belief system." Germ theory is our best explanation given the empirical evidence. Period. One can argue "scalar waves" or transient reality variations, all they want, but VIRUSES EXIST. Period. This was something, quite frankly, I thought had been long ago put to rest, right along with wondering if rats and mice could be spontaneously generated from piles of dirty rags. Simply put, resistance and immunity all have different levels, and the materials (such as vaccines) must be applied correctly to receive the desired immunity, in an effort to protect the wider population. After the panel, in Zurich, I was asked, "What would you do if some places in your country mandated vaccinations?" I responded, 'They do. Schools require it. Every public school I ever entered or entered a child into, required it.' This aforementioned question brings into stark relief the issue of "ethno- and/or ego-centrism" within the claims against my perhaps not knowing what was happening in any given community, worldwide, now doesn't it? We are not so unlike each other, now are we? But I have called no one of them a "name." I was also asked: 'What would you say if you were told you had no choice to give, that whatever was put in front of you would be injected into you?' I answered, 'I would tell them to go to hell! That's my decision to make. I have asked others assist us, to open the databases, but some are content to scream.' During the panel I said that vaccines can confer immunity, and that everyone needs to look into the eyes of their children and make their own decisions. How does one jump from there to "encourage the use" unless one's own conscience is in the mix somewhere? Once more, listen to/watch the WHOLE video, BEFORE making a decision for yourselves. My God, a man showed me his "L.A. Angels" baseball cap, at the Sunday "workshop" which had been made plain would be about the subjects raised by the audience. (People have to own their behaviors. Would we have likely been willing to act like we were "force feeding" people our own agenda, the following morning after the vaccine question was raised?) As I suggested we trade, his for mine, someone actually wrote claiming that it was a DISINFORMATION act. What? FOR GOODNESS SAKE, IT WAS A BASEBALL HAT WE TRADED! Do you perceive something "unusual" in such a claim against us? I do. Is that their New World? I came there expecting that I could be arrested, and that is the best the negatives could offer? My goodness, what could be the result of finding out that a 24 year resident of Zurich brought me

I have directed this post to be made public. We are aware of what is going on, and David can confirm I had hard biological material with me to describe the H1N1/H5N1 issue and lack of biomarkers present which I would expect for a biodefense weapon. I also told him, somewhat directly, that my experience has indicated that should either of these two viruses have been a biodefense weapon, those whom I have known would have been fired for incompetence, due to lack of mortality rate. I also had some Baxter information with me, but NEVER compete for attention via sound level. Why should I? If they prefer hearing the sounds of their own voices, I am most happy leaving them to them. Perhaps more empirical evidence of claims and less shouting through the same fear the same others would have so eloquently pleaded they disrobed from, in L.A.? I hope so. I do not enjoin in the driving of fears, whether about Planet X, vaccines, or any other matter, but rather seek to find out what truths are seated behind the lies- both from the governments and from individuals from within the conspiracy genre. Look at what Marcia presented about Global Warming, Food, and the Illuminati? While she possesses the ability, do you think she created the material which she presented, without my input? Who wrote "Food for Thought" on the SAME SUBJECT on the now closed Eagles Forum? It was on that forum, in that publication, where I first accused the Illuminati of trying to kill the people of the 3rd and 4th worlds by starvation. Why does anyone think we started Angel Eagles and have called the Illumes "filth"? Yes, the actions are 'just because it's the right thing to do' - but also as a symbol to you all that one of your conspiracies is TRUE. When we find out such a thing, we scream it from the roof tops, then we do more than yell or talk - we DO

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a 1973 vintage Angel's baseball jacket, after the workshop was done...a sign of the New World Order? What could this mean? Another conspiracy, or just maybe some good people spent some time with other good people and gave of their hearts too. (KIM_1.jpg and KIM_2.jpg) I bet that those who find conspiracy in that would really like to see the secret handshake exchanged between David and myself before departing from the hotel to the airport! (JOKE_1.jpg) If you believe that's real, then how about the photo of David and myself, after an alleged drinking binge in downtown Zurich? (JOKE_2.jpg) Are they real or are they jokes? If anyone thinks they are real, please refer to the following link: www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsKO_r76kfQ The information that we approached a certain Senator about a database is true, and has already been presented on the Eagles Disobey website. Yes, we have written to a Senator and have thus far received little action. Why? We are going to try to find out. We will take further steps. The unusual thing is that NO ONE, not a soul we heard at the conference asked us what database we were talking about! Review the video/audio. Of course it is the "CDC's VSD" - but no one even asked! Why? When something is important to me, I ask questions. I even asked others to help, or that we would join them in their efforts. So far, we have received no such efforts. We will publish the written comments offered at the conference. If we do, we will do what we can to help. Otherwise, our offer for their voices to be added to our own will remain, and we will take those actions we feel appropriate to investigate this issue. We have been suggested many things which we should say. The most sensible and simple of which is that "we oppose mandatory vaccinations." Well, we do oppose mandatory vaccinations on a personal level of choice, but the world and these issues are much more complicated than would allow for us to make such a blanket statement, regarding the ethical/moral implications for whole societies. Where does any given society have the right, as a whole, to make a decision for its own best benefits? Who is keeping anyone a member of that society, once such decisions are made? Who relieves anyone of their responsibility to DO SOMETHING about conditions they feel are wrong? If people don't like our solution, our investigative manners, they are free to do something else! There are more of us (we the people) than there are more of them (gov officials), aren't there? Where does individual responsibility kick in, versus the willingness to make a charge, or running away into the darkness, or the hiding behind anonymity on the internet? "My name is Dan. What's yours?" The writer of the single negative email to us, out of 629 received was listed as "Joe Public." Right. The next one may have the name "Mr. VOX POPULI VOX DEI." We filed his/her letter with "Jane Doe's" from a few years ago. (Moreover...Marcia and I are doing what we can, with a cutting edge project, we call Project Isis...in a near future attempt to help people. We don't believe, that in the 21st century, we should be having to use NEEDLES AT ALL! We see a future for humanity where disease prevention, diagnosis/treatment, is done with the use of LIGHT and SOUND. Help us, help us get there? Let us know if you wish to.) I made it very clear to some individuals...and will continue to do so as necessary...that while bloggers and certain websites have the liberty to make blanket sociological statements, without fear of much legal, ethical or moral ramifications, we at Eagles Disobey, due to my professional status, do not possess that comfortable latitude. Social responsibility as we see it will be carried through, no matter how popular or unpopular. It's just that simple. The one greatest seeming worry, of just two of those individuals who screamed and ran out, with whom we later met privately, was that because Eagles Disobey has so many hits, our efforts may encourage people to become vaccinated against things like the Mumps, Polio, etc. He said, "They listen to you." ...but he did buy me a cup of coffee, and I thanked him for the coffee. For some reason, he seemed...worried about our website. We have taken note. For some reason, I had deja vu of 2005 and my trip to Brussels? Why? Could it mean that the real conspiracy is 100% the opposite than being described by a few (in comparison to the true population)? Could vaccinations be a threat, for other reasons? In our continuance of telling you all the truth, we have come across evidence, real evidence, of what might be behind some of the recent ongoings - including H1N1 - and we will report it publicly, BUT NOT BEFORE the information is trackable. Too many people say "I heard..." I have done the same, but have tried to parse out the quality of evidence, and be OPEN with what is more credible or less credible. But...too many say "I heard" and other people take that as Gospel, when it is not! We, at Eagles Disobey, try to qualify information BEFORE we pass it along. For instance... We had an unanticipated 24 hour layover in Zurich, before returning home. On arrival at the airport we were told by Delta Airlines that the Flight Crew had been given a 3 hour later time for the departure (instead of 1pm, it would be 4pm), and that they (the Flight Crew) were being told of the error and we should be departing on time. On arrival at the gate (together with David) we were told that the departure would be delayed by one hour, due to the same issue. Almost immediately, the rumors started. The best ones I heard were that the Flight Crew (1) decided to make us wait, (2) were drunk, or were (3) shopping in downtown Zurich. In my view...they were told late, that 1pm was to be the real departure time, and collected themselves to get there as quickly as possible. (During the day prior, if they had not done the right thing, by now the word would have probably been that David, Marcia, and myself perished in the North Atlantic with the rest of the passengers and crew. But...they did what was COMMON SENSE TO DO...NO MATTER HOW UNPOPULAR IT SOUNDED...AND WE ALL SURVIVED.) On the second departure day, the gate employees were screamed at, by some in the crowd who possessed the same amount of

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evidence under hand as what we faced a few days before that time, on the panel, by those who ran away out the doors. Just because they had no real evidence, did that stop them? No! They yelled names at the gate employees and called them "a- holes!" Are they "a-holes"? No. They are good people doing the best jobs they can, under difficult circumstances and passing along information which some might not find..."welcome." But...they had enough intestinal fortitude to do their jobs and not "weanie out" to look good...for a short time. We feel ourselves in good company with such hard working people as those we met at the Delta Airlines gate in Zurich. While in that unanticipated 24 hour layover (due to our jet's mechanical difficulties), and in between calls into Pakistan (due to the bombing that happened there), Marcia and I quietly left the hotel and began our investigation of this matter in the place which said it wanted it raised: Zurich, Switzerland. A photographic essay of the beginning of the investigation was made, with specific photoshots conducted to look into certain businesses. (We photographed certain information at a certain place and I conducted a short "interview" with someone....details later. That place was clearly marked with signs that told me not to enter! Did I listen to those signs? No. Why not? Concerns about health were raised, and that meant more to me than the sign that warned me.) When Eagles Disobey is enjoined to look into a matter, one must always consider just what impact may result by what is shaken from any given tree. My MOM (whose name is Doreen Aglaie Crain [maiden LaPierre], not "UNDISCLOSED SOURCE" or "I HEARD") was the victim of Poliomyelitis (Polio), prior to the advent of the Salk vaccine, and was lucky to have survived the disease. I remember her last sets of braces, when I was barely old enough to walk, and she was still in treatment at Rancho Los Amigos, in California. I remember my Dad carrying her to a vehicle, to transport her for treatment. www.rancho.org If you look up the address, at the link, you will find out that it was right next door to where I lived (Lillian Lane) in my early years, and even right near where I went to Middle School (West Middle School) a few years later. Real world here, not the B.S. of "I heard." I was the victim of a formaldehyde carryover + errant vaccine load, into the vaccines I was given, in the early 1970's. I never had Polio. It just so happens that someone who was really there and watched the reality of "iron lungs"...who had not been given the opportunity to benefit from such a vaccination as it had yet not been developed...wished better for her son. I thank God she did. For those who don't "believe" in vaccinations, does that make her a worse person than me because she had the disease? I mean, it couldn't have been given to her by the vaccination, AS SHE NEVER HAD ONE. Or is this just another case of something which must remain just out of everyone's reach, like Planet X hiding behind the Sun each time we look for it. I find that many find it very easy to speak against issues, after possibly benefiting from same. They almost seem outnumber those who would do just about anything to look good for political expediency. We, Marcia and I, don't choose to follow those paths, but we will investigate matters and report what we find. I look forward to reporting on what we find, as a result of this investigation, in Los Angeles, at "Awake and Aware." The bottom line is that when Project Camelot is presenting the information which we are all saying, and cutting edge new information, they are doing an invaluable service to humankind. They are shaking that tree, but what will fall out of it may be shocking to some, difficult for others. Marcia and I both support their efforts to present the material and LET OTHERS make up their own minds. That has been the philosophy behind Eagles Disobey, and continues to be. But... if anyone is afraid to cross post this...DON'T. We are quite used to the conduct we faced from a few (amongst a mass of great people), a few days ago...and there is plenty of darkness...of human-self-making...to hide within. The Illuminati didn't cause a few people to behave that way...or did they? Bill... and as the travelers said to Corso... had it right. It's a 'New World, If You Can Take It.' Either way, our investigation will be published on Eagles Disobey. Chat with you all, when I am next privileged to do so. Love (which comes in many packages), Dan"

THIS MAY BE CROSS PUBLISHED ANYWHERE, AND WAS ESPECIALLY DESIGNED FOR PROJECT CAMELOT, BUT WILL BE POSTED ON THE GOLDEN THREAD. www.the-goldenthread.proboards.com .

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Project Camelot: Barcelona Exopolitics Speakers Panel On Disclosure
23 July 2009

Featuring (left to right): Paola Harris, Brian O'Leary, Bob Dean, Stephen Bassett, Kerry Cassidy, Bill Ryan, Michael Salla, Alfred Webre, Nick Pope, and Robert Fleischer. Dr Steven Greer was invited by the Barcelona conference organizers, but declined to take part.

[Ed note: Normally the transcripts that had any parts in them that had been difficult for the transcribers to hear were put in “audibles” in square brackets in red for Bill Ryan to attend to, fix, then he’d post the transcript; however, due to unexpected interruptions in the normal working process in Project Camelot, this normal process was not able to proceed forward, so the audibles were left in the square brackets.] Part 1 Of 2 BILL RYAN (BR): So this is Bill Ryan here, and… KERRY CASSIDY (KC): Kerry Cassidy... BR: ...from Project Camelot and we are honored, genuinely honored, and privileged to have been invited here to the Exopolitics Summit in Barcelona. And the date today, somebody, is? NICK POPE (NP): Twenty-third of July, 2009. BR: Excellent. [laughter] This is the guy from the Ministry of Defence, who always knows what day it is and what’s going on. Thank you very much, Nick. What we are doing here is we’re gathering the opportunity to talk with most of the speakers, who are appearing here this weekend on Spain’s first Exopolitics Summit. This is a formal/informal gathering, a meeting of great minds, considerable experience between us, I think. I won’t add up the number of years -- it might be embarrassing. We’re just going to talk about the general subject of Disclosure and just see, once we kick that ball off, where it might go in the next hour and a half. Kerry...

KC: [laughs] I would like to say that we are going to do a transition about an hour and half into this, onto live radio. So I just want to say that caveat right at the beginning. On top of it, we decided we would start out with introductions, so we’re going to go around the table and do some brief introductions of all the speakers here. I want to start off with Paola, Paola Harris. PAOLA HARRIS (PH): My name’s Paola Harris. I’m a little old American journalist. I’ve been working in this field for 30 years. I began working with Dr. J. Allen Hynek, astronomer, researcher, professor at Northwestern University, because he was a consultant to Steven Spielberg for Close Encounters of the Third Kind. And so I saw the film and I went to see him and he was my teacher for 6 years. I knew this was real, because I started with a scientist who was working in this field. I just want to say that I graduated – because I’m a teacher; I also have a Masters in education – from ecology to what I call Exopolitics. And my definition of Exopolitics is: the formal academic study of the UFO phenomena and contact and its political and sociological implications for the planet. So now I am mainly in that field and I’ve written three books, the last one All Of The Above, which talks about possible protocols of Exopolitics. Protocols -- things like we need to look at a universal and planetary involvement. This is not an American problem; it’s not a French problem; it’s not a German problem -- it is a planetary problem. So that’s where I’m coming from. That will be my focus, that will be my talk, and that is what I’m interested in. BR: Paola, thank you very much. Dr. Brian O’Leary...

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Dr. BRIAN O’LEARY (B’OL): My name is Brian O’Leary. In 1967 I was appointed to go to Mars by NASA, as an astronaut. Then, when the U.S. got involved in Vietnam, I became a free energy activist and a peace activist. The contact experience and the whole UFO phenomenon, to me, ushers in many more things that can help us with our own problems here on the planet. My principle activity over the last several years has been to visit the laboratories of some of the best and brightest so-called zeropoint and other breakthrough clean energy concepts. My latest book, The Energy Solution Revolution, talks about the politics and the social implications of a breakthrough energy economy. I think that the energy – and because of the suppression of free energy technologies, which has been rampant, and the high danger of doing this kind of work – makes it extremely symbiotic with the whole question of UFO/ET disclosure. So to me Exopolitics means going outside the box of normal inquiry and being able to embrace those technologies which can truly create a sustainable future for planet Earth. BR: Wonderful. STEPHEN BASSETT (SB): You know, Brian, they are sending people to Mars now, so you still have a shot. [laughter] KC: And, from what we understand, all you do is walk into a sort of, like, elevator or ‘jumproom’ to Mars, and so there’s no flight actually involved. B’OL: Well that sure beats chemical rockets. BR: You bet. KC: So, that’s another story. And now... BR: [to Bob Dean] Do you know what? I’d love to call you Dr. Bob Dean. I think we should start calling you Dr. Bob Dean. BOB DEAN (BD): Call me anything you like, as long as I’m not late for dinner. KC: But didn’t you say Sergeant Major? BR: Command Sergeant Major. SB: Command Sergeant Major. KC: Okay. BR: Bob, who are you? Tell the world. This is your chance. BR: Anger is a great motivator. BD: I have to stand up. I don’t talk well sitting down. I confronted the sheriff, who happened to have the hiring authority at the time, and I was told that: Well, you’re one of those people who speaks out a little bit openly about UFOs. I can’t have you working in here, in the Department of Emergency Services. And if you’ll forgive my French, I got myself the meanest lawyer in town and I sued the son of a bitch. I went through two years of litigation, spent $20,000 of money that I did not have, and, after two years of litigation, I won the lawsuit. I got the job; I got the back pay; and I got $100,000 of tort damages. But I was so outraged at these two incidents – that I had been denied a job promotion, and my good friend had been sent to Newfoundland without his family -- I reached such a level of outrage, frustration, anger, aggravation, that I began to violate my National Security Oath and speak openly about what I had learned, what I’d been shown, what I had been told... because I had had Top Secret clearances all my career. BR: Very good. BD: I first became aware of the extraterrestrial presence 45 years ago, but I didn’t come out and start speaking about it until 1991. I took an Oath when I was in the military. I had Cosmic Top Secret clearance while I was at SHAPE [Supreme Headquarters of Allied Forces in Europe] Headquarters in Paris and I took an Oath not to divulge any of the classified material that I had learned while I was in the service and while I was in Paris. I kept myself to that Oath until 1991. A couple of events occurred in 1991 that outraged me to such a point that I could not keep quiet any longer. A good friend of mine, an Air Force fighter pilot, had just gotten back from a full tour in Japan. He was flying his jet over Florida and he had an incident in the sky at 40,000 feet, where he looked out of his canopy to the left and he happened to see a circular disk with a dome and he found himself looking into the face of another human being looking at him. When he got back on the ground, he had to talk to somebody about it and explain what happened. Well, speaking openly about it was his mistake. The Air Force grabbed him, sent him to Newfoundland, to a United States Air Force base in Newfoundland, without his family. Now, back in those days, they did things like that. I’ve been told that they don’t do those things anymore, but I don’t believe it. Another thing that brought me out of the closet, as it were – a figure of speech – I was denied a promotion for a job. I was working in Pima County as an Emergency Services Special Operations, Field Operations. My boss retired; I applied for his job, I went through the entire hiring process, and I was turned down for the job.

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BD: You see, I’m not an easy person to get along with, sometimes, by the very nature of the fact that I retired as a Command Sergeant Major. We had a reputation, all of whom retired Command Sergeant Majors have a reputation of being able to chew ass and take names, as they used to say, [Kerry laughs] so I have no patience and I have no toleration for lies. BR: Bob, thank you so much for that. BD: So, I came out of the closet in ’91. I’ve been speaking openly and bluntly about this subject. And I want to say to you all who are here that this is the greatest, most important subject in the history of the human race, because, essentially, it is the story of the human race. Ladies and gentlemen, good friends, all of you -- we are not alone and we have never been alone. We have had an intimate interrelationship with advanced extraterrestrial intelligence from the beginning of our history, and that interrelationship is still going on. I’m very gratified to be a part of this conference here in Barcelona. And I want to make it very clear to anyone who’s interested is that I take my hat off to the sponsors of this program for having the courage to do what they’re doing here. This is important, so pay attention, and listen -- because you ain’t seen nothin’ yet! [laughter] Thank you. BR: Bravo. VOICE: Wow! BR: Okay. KC: Stephen Bassett... BR: Following that, Steve, are you an angry man? STEPHEN BASSETT (SB): Mm, not at the moment. First and foremost, I think, it’s important that I say that I speak for all of us, when I say that we have nothing against the perfectly fine Canadian province of Newfoundland, and I look forward to going there someday and talking about Exopolitics. So, for you Newfoundlanders out there -- it’s okay, no problem. I’m Stephen Bassett. I founded the Paradigm Research Group in 1996 for one reason only – to pursue the political resolution of the UFO issue. That’s it and that’s all that I’ve done for the last 13 years. The science and the UFOlogy and the study of the sightings and all that had gone about as far as it could, in my view, by then, and it was clear that the government had a policy of withholding the truth and acknowledgement. So that had to be addressed. In the early days, back then, ’96, ’97, we were looking for new terms, a new lexicon, and we talked about the politics of UFOs, which is kind of a bridge term. And then we talked about the concept of Disclosure. That word turned up. So this conference is part of that. I’m glad to be a part of it and I look forward to presenting on Sunday. BR: Very good. BD: Bill, may I interject something? Make your needs known and there will be somebody who’s listening. [Kerry, Bill laugh; background chatter] SB: I need a milkshake, but I don’t think I’m going to get it. BD: To your health -- to all of you, to your health. SB: Very good. BR: [to Kerry] Who are you? KC: Oh, well, no, no, no. Actually, I would like to continue around the circle here. BR: You don’t want to say anything about Camelot? KC: Well, I think, in the end, we can. BR: Well, okay. Okay. But in 2000, the word Exopolitics turned up, and that was due to the gentleman sitting to my left, Alfred Webre, and, very quickly, he was joined by others, in particular, Dr. Michael Salla. But the moment I heard Exopolitics, that term... the moment I heard it, instantly, I knew that that was the umbrella under which we were going to proceed. That was the boat that we would sail in. And, so within a few days, I think within a week, I contacted Art Bell. And there was something else going on at the time involving Danny Sheehan, an activist Attorney, and I said: We need to get Alfred and Danny Sheehan on the show at the same time, because I was doing that for them back then, helping them put together some shows. So Danny Sheehan and Alfred Webre came on. Danny was talking about some events that occurred in the Carter administration and Alfred was talking about that as well. They both had a connection with the Carter administration and that was the reason, but, of course, Alfred was talking about Exopolitics. And so from that day forward – 2000 – we had that new term. In only nine years, it has now become on the edge of being a very significant change in thinking, in terminology, a new field of study. When you Google it, you can get, I think now, something like 180,000 returns off of Exopolitics. There’re no extra pages; it’s all about the UFO/ET issue. It has no other use in the English language. Six hundred thousand, I think, on Yahoo. It’s on the verge of being in the dictionary. So that’s in nine years. A new field has developed and you need that. You need language in order to move forward. You need new language to go into new places.

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KC: All right? I think the next person that we need to introduce is Dr. Michael Salla. Dr. MICHAEL SALLA (MS): In 2001, I was a professor at a university in Washington, D.C. – American University – and I was teaching international politics. I had graduate-level classes. I saw the video of the Disclosure Conference, the Disclosure Project Press Conference, and that really startled me. I just had no idea that this kind of information was out there. Prior to that, I always thought that extraterrestrial life was real, but, you know, some day in the future, they’ll contact us, and wow, the world will change. So, when I saw that press conference, my world kind of really crumbled in terms of how I understood international politics and what was happening in the world. And so, one of the first things I did was I showed the press conference video to a class. The class was on Theories of Conflict, Violence, and War and I showed it to the class, 25 graduate students; very progressive Liberal Arts students at American University. I showed them the press conference and then I said, you know: What do you think? And I asked the students: Well, line up in terms of... line up. There’s going to be a line on the extreme right. If you agree strongly that this video is real, that you agree with that very strongly, then get on the right. If you disagree strongly, then get on the left. If you’re kind of neutral, get in the middle. So I asked them to separate themselves, where they fit in on that line. And, of the 25 students, two agreed, one strongly; and one moderately agreed that the video was real, that the testimonies were valid; the other 23 were either strongly opposed or kind of neutral about it. That shocked me because, basically, what I was seeing was that university students weren’t ready to accept this information as real. They just came up with many of the standard responses: Well, they’re making it up. How do we know it’s real? CNN would tell us if it were real. So that was kind of an important eyeopener for me. I found that the university administration was similarly not very impressed with this topic. So that led to my forced removal from the university and I’ve been studying Exopolitics ever since, which for me, really involves looking at three different processes, or three different things. It’s looking at: What are involved with the question at, say, the role of the Kennedy, and so forth – extraterrestrial life. the main actors, or the individuals, of extraterrestrial life? So we looked presidents – Truman, Eisenhower, how they dealt with this issue of Then I looked at what are the processes involved here? Some of the processes are like maintaining secrecy, maintaining a psychological warfare program to discredit, debunk this whole question in the general public arena, and also funding these projects, which are occurring behind the scenes. So those are the questions and the issues that I’m very interested in. I’ve been doing this now for eight years and I’m still learning and still finding things to be amazed at. So, this is truly an amazing field. The more years you put into it, the more things that you have more questions about. I haven’t yet reached that point where I feel that I’ve understood the big picture. BR: That’s right. The more you find out, the less you know. [laughs] Thank you. Alfred? ALFRED WEBRE (AW): Thank you very much. As I was saying, I’m a futurist, an activist, and a lawyer. KC: Are you Doctor Alfred Webre? AW: You know, I always think that the lawyers tried to get a phony PhD? [Kerry laughs] Because I got an LLB and the Legal Association then changed all law degrees to JD. So, technically, are we lawyers -- doctors? Doctor? What do you think? SD: You’re a Juris Doctor, which sounds even better. AW: Yeah, I’m a Juris Doctor, but I think that it’s kind of back door. [laughter] That’s kind of how I am. I always question things, and, well... I think that Steve has really given sort of a contextual background to what has happened over the first ten years of Exopolitics. What I’ve come here to this Summit to really talk about is the next ten or eleven years, and that is in terms of what the larger astronomical and cosmic cycles that will be occurring – in an amazing synchrony – that will serve as motors or propellants of the process of Disclosure, and more deeply, the process of a transformation of our reality and the reality of all living things, I think, which includes animals, plants, and minerals… [laughs] according to some of you. I just want to bring all that kind of cosmic consciousness here, because I think that that is really what Disclosure is about, and what will fuel Disclosure will be an interactive elevation of the consciousness of... …and I see a gentleman back there, who will remain nameless, who is saying: Yes! So, just very briefly, we’re talking about the solar cycle-24 from 2009 to 2020, with solar maximum at 2012 to 2013. And, by the Index of Human Excitability that goes back to 500 BC, we know that all revolutions, wars, riots, and the fundamental fixing of things in society happens during the solar maximum, which NASA tells us now is in May of 2013.

The second is we look at the institutions. What are the main institutions that are being involved with this issue? So, straight away, we come up with, say, the different intelligence departments, especially the CIA Counter-Intelligence, the National Reconnaissance Office [and] the NSA. So those are some of the institutions.

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So, in that general term, we’re in for some really dynamite stuff. If we want to be changing agents in a positive way, now’s the time to put out our agenda, as Dr. Bob Dean says. [laughter] Another cycle is the cycle of the Matrix of Time Acceleration, which Dr. Carl Johan Calleman and Barbara Hand Clow, a colleague of mine who lives in Vancouver, Canada, also, talk about. That is, where time is accelerating, the rate of change is accelerating; the rate of our consciousness is accelerating. And there will be, probably, according to this theory, 20 times as much change in the year 2011 as there was between 1999, when the Internet started, and the beginning of 2011. So that’s the backdrop for how Disclosure can take place. And, finally, there are the larger Galactic and cosmic cycles, sort of the source of our thoughts; of our reality; of our DNA, as well; of the stars; the black hole at the center of our Galaxy – most galaxies have black holes – and how it will be programming the other 97 percent of our junk DNA in the coming years, so that we can become more capable of interacting and, therefore, things will be disclosed. So I look forward to this process, and the process of the weekend. BD: Very good. BR: Thank you, Alfred. I just want to say here that this idea of an Index of Human Excitability – I just think that’s such a wonderful name, I just love it -- I take it very seriously; but, for me, it’s like: How appropriate is that? How excitable are we all now? You know. And where’s it going to go? KC: Okay. Well, calm right down. [laughter] BR: Oh, I’m getting too excited. KC: You’re getting too excited. And let’s introduce… BR: Nick. NICK POPE (NP): Okay, I’m just plain Nick Pope -- no doctor, nothing like that. My background is government, British government. I worked for the Ministry of Defence for 21 years. I did about seven or eight different jobs in that period and the one which has lead to me sitting at this table is a job that I did from 1991 through to 1994, when I was responsible for researching and investigating the UFO phenomenon for the British government. The brief was to look at the two or three hundred UFO sightings we had each year to see whether they were already defensesignificant, which rather cleverly, in government terms, is something that we didn’t actually ever define. Perhaps that’s a point for later. Anyway, my views on this were that most of these things, of course, turned out to be misidentifications. There were plenty of cases where these things were seen by pilots and police officers, where they were tracked on radar, performing speeds and I left the Ministry of Defence in 2006. I now work as a freelance journalist, a media commentator, not just on the unexplained, but on conspiracy theories, some political and some defense issues. That’s me. BR: Very good. I like it. BD: May I ask a question, please? NP: Sure. BD: The material that has been released so far – and I assume you’ve checked it, looked at it, read it – is there anything in there of any real substance? [Kerry laughs] NP: Yes, there is. I think what there isn’t… Let me answer that in reverse. There isn’t – and I don’t mean this in a disparaging way, but it’s a neat sound bite that I have used before – there isn’t a spaceship-in-a-hanger smoking gun. That said, there are plenty of those sorts of cases that I was mentioning where things have been tracked on radar performing some quite remarkable speeds, plenty of police cases, plenty of military cases. The one that really stood out, and I discussed it on Fox News, amongst others, was the case of Milton Torres, the fighter pilot who, in 1957, whilst a United States Air Force pilot posted over to the UK, was ordered to shoot down a UFO over the mainland UK. So that’s a case that I’m going to be discussing in some detail at this conference. PH: I want to add that I interviewed, as a journalist, Milton Torres. This goes to show that, yes, he was ordered to shoot down a UFO in 1957, so there are shoot-down orders. maneuvers which seemed to go significantly ahead of anything in our own inventory, including prototype aircraft and drones. So my position on the UFO phenomenon is that, I think, whatever it is – and I’m not one of these people that have a neat answer -- I’m sure, perhaps, there aren’t any neat answers in this business. I think there are probably lots of different things going on, lots of overlap. But my position is, whatever the nature of this phenomenon, or phenomena, I believe it raises some interesting and important defense, national security and their safety issues. Other issues too, which others better qualified than me here are going to discuss on the societal implications, the sociological implications. That’s probably less my field. What I’m here to really talk about at this conference is something which has been going for about a year and a half now – the British government’s ongoing program to declassify and release, to the National Archives, the entire archive of British UFO files going back to the ’50s and coming into the present day. So it’s interesting times in the UK and it’s been a story all around the world.

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But what I saw on a human level, and this is part of Exopolitics also, is that he was very emotional about telling the story. He told it at the X-Conference with Nick at Stephen Bassett’s XConference in April. But as a journalist, when I interviewed him, he was very emotional, because his father had died two years ago, and he had kept this secret for so long. He began to cry and was very emotional about it. These people keep these secrets so long, until the Ministry of Defence released these files. It’s a huge burden, and there are so many of them. I think more countries should release their files. BR: And it’s happening. KC: Absolutely. BR: It’s happening. KC: Well, Disclosure... That’s what it’s all about. BD: Did the Ministry of Defence ever, ever take a position on Peter Horsley’s memoir, where he said that he spent an afternoon having tea with an extraterrestrial? And Peter Horsley was a retired Air Marshall. NP: Indeed. The Ministry of Defence, as far as I can tell, made some efforts to, shall we say, brief against him. In other words, a quote ended up in the media which was – and I’m doing this from memory -- but, it was something like: How unfortunate that a man, when he was posted to Strike Command at that level and had his finger on the nuclear button, has been seeing aliens. So, behind the scenes, they were disparaging him. BD: Isn’t that sad. NP: It is sad and it’s disrespectful. KC: It is disrespectful. NP: Of course, I mean, the other important thing is, of course, that person, as is often the case – well, always the case in this situation – didn’t give their name. They were just listed as a defense source. BD: Uh-huh. NP: A senior defense source told us... BD: Peter Horsley was one of your top people; he was an Air Marshall. I would have thought they would have paid attention and given some respect to his opinion. NP: No, they just... they deployed the usual line, which is: Let’s put in a slightly disparaging comment, but see if we can get the phrase “little green men” somewhere in there and let’s hope everyone just moves on. BD: Thank you. I’m glad they got that on film. Then, like five years ago, I think, I stopped working for television, because I finally understood that the reason why these important things which we are discussing here – which is the alien presence and free energy and consciousness. Why that is not in the mass media is not because people there -they never think about doing that on the media – no; it’s just because they don’t have the chance to do that, because television is simply not the right medium to do that. People don’t want that on television, because television has a certain control in our society, a certain control function. So, I stopped working for television when I came across a kind of free energy device, made a TV report about it, and they wouldn’t let me report on it; they never actually broadcast that. Then a couple of years later, I also came across the Disclosure Project Press Conference on the Internet and that kind of triggered my curiosity again in this field because I thought: How the… [laughs] It’s impossible that, in the mass media, you always hear about weather balloons or whatever, and then there’s these highlycredible military witnesses and insiders -- all of you just sitting BR: Okay. Thank you, Bob. Rob... ROBERT FLEISCHER (RF): Yes! BR: …you’re waiting very patiently. KC: Say your whole name and your background. RF: All right. My name’s Robert Fleischer. I’m the founder and coordinator of Exopolitics Germany and it’s a great privilege to be sitting here at this table with these brilliant minds. I’ve studied a lot and read a lot of things you’ve said and, I have to say, I’m just so curious how this is all going to unfold. I’m going to make it short, as I don’t even have the smallest part of the background that you all have. I came in touch with this field when I was 16 years old when I first met the author, Erich von Däniken, who wrote Chariots of the Gods in 1968 or something, and became friends and whatever. He was in my region and we met, and we had discussions and conversations. We spent hours sitting on the lawn talking about God and the world and the extraterrestrials. It was so exciting for me at the age of 16. So, you know, it kind of made me curious about what else was there? And wouldn’t it be important for us all to know about it? And why isn’t that on the media? So I started a journalist career. At a very early age, I started working for a local newspaper. Then I was a presenter on a local television show. So I kept working in this field and did my university degree at the same time.

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here at this table -- how is it possible that I’ve never heard about that? So I thought about what could I do? So I founded Exopolitics Germany, which is, as Stephen said, an umbrella for all kinds of activities in this field, which are necessary to bring this issue forward. It’s such a huge field; it’s physical evidence, cover-up [and] Disclosure. But, what I’m interested in -- and that’s my personal interest in this -- is the fact that these craft appear and disappear, shows that our reality is obviously much greater than what we ever thought it is. It’s not just three dimensions, plus linear time. No, it’s much more than that. And I wanted to find out: What is it? And, if these extraterrestrial visitors master these dimensions -these superior dimensions, or supplementary dimensions, or however you want to call them -- what does that mean for their states of consciousness? How are they thinking? What kind of consciousness level must they have to be able to adopt to – to master – these dimensions? And what will it mean for us to understand how they think? Or, to put it in another way, what would be the next level of evolution in human consciousness? Because we might assume that we would also come across these other dimensions sooner or later. So, that is what I’m actually interested in most. But what really interests me the most is the consciousness thing and I’m strongly convinced that everything is actually, in the end, a question of consciousness. [to Brian] Yes, please. B’OL: Yeah, I was just going to say that: Yes, the more recent experiments that are being done among humans is the incredible power of positive intention; that people coming together in groups with an intention can actually create that reality. It’s interesting that you have these two parallel tracks going on. One is science, very good science, being done here on the Earth by university scientists and, at the same time, you have the ETUFO-Disclosure issue, and the two are very intertwined, because the ET/UFO phenomenon just points so clearly towards this. We need to know this and we need all the help we can get from our off-plant/on-planet people that are going against the grain of Black Ops, and going against the grain of these horrible agendas, that we can actually heal the planet; we can have a sustainable future. So, from my own point of view, I’m just very grateful to be here among you and to be able to interact in this way. BR: That’s wonderful, Brian. Thank you so much. Let me have a go here, [to Kerry] then I’ll let you have the last word. KC: Absolutely. BR: For me, having this kind of conference sometimes feels like a group of fishermen on a little island in the Pacific Ocean who are sitting around a campfire trying to figure out whether there’s anyone else in the world. And what are these funny, shiny things Then many of us waited for what was next, what was going to happen after this. Where was the Disclosure Project going to go next after this incredible public relations feat which they created? One of the things that happened while we were waiting is that Kerry Cassidy picked up a consumer-grade camcorder that is that they see up in the air? Do you believe that I saw this thing up in the sky? It’s like: What is that thing? Is that real, or what? Our level of sophistication in asking these questions may not come close to the level of sophistication that’s needed in order to get the answers. This is a bridge over, I think, into the world of Exopolitics. Because, while those islanders around this campfire in the South Pacific might be arguing with each other about whether they’re all alone in the world and what are these metal things that some people say that they see in the sky, what we’re really interested in is – assuming that there are other people in the world and assuming that they do fly around in these metal things in the sky – what are their agendas? What are they doing with the world? What are they doing with our world? What is it that they might be doing that we might need to know about on our little island? What might be their agendas for us? What’s it all about, and who are we, and how did we get here in the first place? And if we look at the political implications of that, the questions are so enormous and so far beyond the questions that one might get in – I don’t know – in a media article about: Is it possible that aliens could really exist? It’s like, come on! This is a given! But who are they? Where are they from? When are they from? What are they doing? What’s our place in the universe and what do we need to know in order to understand these things? What do our own governors and politicians and military intelligence specialists know that we are not being told? And why are we not being told? I believe that the Exopolitics movement is trying to speak to those issues and this is one of the directions in which, I think, that this whole conversation would like to go. Before I introduce my colleague, Kerry Cassidy, I want to say that several people here have talked about Steven Greer’s Disclosure Project Press Conference and I remember exactly where I was when that happened. I was driving down a Scottish road at about two o’clock in the morning and this was coming over on live BBC Radio. I was so astonished that I stopped my car to listen to it, because I didn’t know whether this was a joke. Then I realized this was real, this was being streamed live. And I thought: This is amazing! This is now going to turn the world on its head. This is extraordinary what Steven Greer is doing. I wish he was here right now because I want to acknowledge him for that. That was an incredible thing.

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about as big as this wine glass, from what I can remember, and started going to UFO conferences to talk to them, because somebody had to do that job. It doesn’t matter whether you’ve got money, it doesn’t matter whether you’ve got high technology, what you need is the intention to start talking to people, because this is a process that is, ultimately, all about communication and that’s all. [to Kerry] And you’re a master communicator. So I now want to introduce you with that. Tell us about Project Camelot. KC: [laughs] Well, okay, thank you, Bill. That was a lovely introduction. Obviously, we’re Project Camelot. We’ve been asked to come and host this panel discussion. We’re actually going to sit back and just moderate. In many ways, we’re not going to be speaking. But just to introduce us as the moderators, we formed Project Camelot because we met at Laughlin and, actually, Bill was one of the people I interviewed. He was one of my first interviewees, if you will. When I interviewed him on the subject of Serpo, I was very impressed by his balance, by his command of the language, by his sort of good will towards what I knew were probing questions that I have, sort of a… BR: That’s a euphemism! [laughs] KC: ...sort of a talent with handling. He really rolled with it very nicely; he handled it well. And yet he was very, very straightforward. He wasn’t taking sides, other than to say that the Serpo story was something that he felt was important enough [that] it needed to be discussed, it needed to be understood and it needed to be talked about; it needed to be explored and investigated, and he was there to encourage that process. I think that, in many ways, what happened when we formed Project Camelot is that we really wanted to extend what was the initial impulse of what -- I guess you could call the Disclosure Project initially -- which was to go out, to put a camera in front of somebody’s face, to ask them questions, to let the audience decide. And that’s really been our mission from that day forward. We decided this in Tintagel. We really connected there. We connected with the past of King Arthur and the Roundtable and the idea of, not a hierarchy, but a sort of a utopia in which all people were equal and all opinions would be listened to. That’s really what we wanted to do with Project Camelot. We wanted to allow the camera and the power of the Internet to connect these people. It’s been an incredible journey. We’ve gone all over the world. We’ve interviewed some of the most charming, brilliant minds, I have to say, that are here on planet Earth at this time. We’ve been fortunate in that way. Some of those people are sitting around the table today with us. Some are in the audience. So it’s been very exciting. It’s been a lot of work, hard work. We’ve gotten tons of support from the audiences around the world. We want to thank all of them, at the moment, for that. BR: This is a bridge into our most recent whistleblower interview. It has not been published; we’re still waiting for the okay to do that. This is with Dr. Pete Peterson. We interviewed him; it is nearly four weeks ago now, and he was a man who had some extraordinary things to say. This is now our intro into one of the main topics of this conference. KC: Yeah, absolutely. What we’re covering here is really Disclosure. And I want to say that, in many ways, what it’s really all about is truth. That’s what we’re interested in seeking with Project Camelot, but it’s also what this conference is about. We’re really trying to get to the bottom of: What is truth? What does it mean to be human? What does it mean to be a member of a Galactic Community that involves peoples and extraterrestrials, interdimensionals, all kinds of beings, all kinds of places, all kinds of levels [and] all kinds of dimensions? And to take that holistic view, and the fact that we are multidimensional beings, simultaneously here and many other places. We are time travelers, all of us. We are ETs, all of us. And those are extensions of the concept. So to get back to the discussion... BR: What did Pete Peterson say? KC: One of the things that our recent whistleblower was talking about was the fact that there... Okay, well, you’re supposed to talk about this topic. BR: I’m supposed to talk about this topic? Okay. What Pete Peterson told us, on camera, is that he had heard from somebody who had already booked the time with the networks, that there is to be a planned Disclosure towards the end of this year by President Obama, who will confirm the reality of contact with four or five or six -- we don’t quite know the number -friendly ET races. That was what he was prepared to say on record. Now, this is the kind of thing that Stephen Bassett has been waiting for, for the last 13 years, or longer... SB: It seems like 30 years, actually, Bill. BR: ...and what you’ve been saying on record, that Obama is going to be the Disclosure President. Now, maybe none of us should hold our breaths, because it’s quite a long way to hold our breath until the end of the year. And Peterson was also anxious to say that, just because it’s planned, it

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doesn’t mean it’s going to happen. But we believe him when he tells us that, at the moment, this is being slated. There are all kinds of reasons why this might be true. Because, as Stephen has pointed out, in his many, many on-record comments about all of this, America is under quite some pressure to disclose, because how embarrassing would it be for them if some other little tin-pot country like... Great Britain! [comments, laughter] Or France! [laughter, comments, everyone talking at once] KC: Okay, before we get into name-calling, I think we should start off, on the question of Disclosure, knowing what our recent whistleblower was talking about. Could you talk about how this affects your view – and we want to hear from everybody – on whether you think this is possibly going to happen, whether you think it’s not going to happen and why; and also what are the implications if it does? BD: May I? BR: What are the implications for Exopolitics if it does? And how does Exopolitics respond, etcetera? BD: It’s been my observation that, when you get 25 people into a room, you have 25 separate visions of what disclosure really means. KC: Mm-hmm. BD: And my point is this: I think Disclosure is underway and has been underway for quite a while. I do not believe that you’re going to have Obama getting on national television and saying: Gee whiz, guys, we’ve got some news for you. [Kerry laughs] We’re not alone. We’ve been visited by guys from other star systems and other planets. Whoopee! And everybody gets excited, you know. They all run to the door to get it on the evening news. That’s not the way it’s going to happen. Now, that’s my view, and I’ll be the first to admit that it could happen that way, although I doubt it. [Kerry laughs] But you know, you cannot come out on TV and say: Oh, lookee! We’ve known this for years. We’ve kept it from you because we didn’t think you could deal with it, but now we’re going to level with you and tell you the truth. Isn’t that nice? BR: Okay. BD: It’s like opening Pandora’s Box. BR: This is where we start to get some really interesting reactions from people. Already people are leaning forward in their seats because they want to… BD: You’re not going to get a Disclosure like that. Recognize that it is underway. It’s taking place. It’s been underway for some time and it’s the form of subliminal education. When I made a presentation some time back at Laughlin, Nevada, I spoke about The Three Stevens and the Apocalypse and this one... [indicating Stephen Bassett] SB: I was the Apocalypse. [laughter] BD: …this was one of the Three Stevens that I spoke about – Steven Greer, Stephen Bassett, and Steven Spielberg. BR: Mm-hm. BD: And I also gave the definition of the Greek word apocalypse, which is not at all what most fundamentalists think it is, that of the Four Horsemen riding... what is it? AW: Armageddon. BD: War, famine, plague, pestilence, and all that. The Greek word simply means the disclosure, the unveiling, and the revealing. Really. That’s been underway now for over 20 years, and Steven Spielberg has played a major role in that... KC: Absolutely. BD: ...with his movies, and that TV special he did was dynamite, really. Was it Taken? KC/PH: Taken. BD: Yeah. BR: Taken. BD: That was so filled with real truth… KC: Yes. Yeah, absolutely. BD: …that I would like for them to run it again, and maybe they will. But you’re in the midst of Disclosure, my friends, and it’s happening right around you every day. BR: I want to ask... Michael Salla wants to jump in. KC: I don’t think anyone would disagree with that. BR: Michael wants to jump. KC: I think we’d all agree; we are part of Disclosure. BR: Michael wants to jump in. KC: But Stephen was supposed to have a chance.

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SB: No, no, no. Michael can jump in any time he wants. I always defer to Michael -- that way I keep getting asked back to Hawaii after his conferences. [laughter] KC: I’m deferring to Michael! MS: I have an idea as to what might be released at the end of this year. One of the things to keep in mind is: What does the government know about this? One of the things that I think is very important is that, in 1969, there was [a] memorandum released by a Brigadier General called the Bolender Memo, and that basically said that UFO reports are separated in terms of their national security implications. Those that weren’t very significant went into the Blue Book system, and we know that Blue Book ended in 1969. Those that had significance in terms of national security went into the cIrvis system, which is The Communications Instructions for Reporting Vital Intelligence Sightings, and that went into a separate body for study and analysis, because it had national security implications. So you have two bodies of information concerning UFOs – those that are kind of like just the sightings that are recorded by radar that became part of the Blue Book system and were eventually released in ’69 or up to ’69; and those that concerned more significant events, such as crashes of UFO disks, that went into the CIRVIS system. So, eventually, where did all of these reports end up? I believe that the CIRVIS reports went into the archives held by various corporations that have been studying these files for reverse engineering applications, for then contracting out to the military services that might want to use some of this technology. And the other stuff that didn’t have national security implications just became available through the NGO [Non-Governmental Organizations]. So what is going to be released at the end of this year? I think the key is that what you mention by Dr. Pete Peterson was, you said up to six races. Well, I have a kind of memory about who’s talked about up to six races. In 1977, there was a Congressional Research Study done that was exploring the question of UFOs: What’s out there? It was President Carter who asked for this to be conducted, because he asked the CIA to be briefed on UFOs and he was told: No – Bush said no to him. So he couldn’t get his hands into what was actually in the archives. He couldn’t find out, but he asked the Congressional Research Study to go out and do a study on this. This was done by Marcia Smith, who was a senior congressional science investigator. She went out and she came up with a report that between two to six extraterrestrial civilizations have been visiting the Earth. SB: There’re two basic kinds of Disclosure, okay? One is selfdisclosure. That’s when the nations of the world go to their people – right? – the ones that they have this social contract with to govern, and say: Look, this is what we know; we’ve got these beings here; we know this about them; don’t be alarmed, be alarmed, whatever and we’re going to try to inform you about this. And then over a period of time, weeks, months, years, the public will, I’m sure, be quite interested in learning everything they can. That honors the social contract. That’s the way governments are supposed to operate; that will instill a certain... at least assure that the contract is honored. That’s one kind. The other kind is force majeure Disclosure. That’s where the governments keep going: I don’t know anything; nothing here; nothing going on; nothing to see; no problem –and, all of a sudden, big ships start appearing over the cities of the world. Well, yeah, now the government has to come forward and say: Well guess what? Yeah, they’re here and we didn’t tell you. Everybody, of course, is scared to death. So, in that version, the social contracts of all the First World nations – Third World nations have other things to worry about – is broken. You didn’t tell us? You lied? Here they are. What are we going to do? And so, that is a much more traumatic, much more disruptive process that will lead to a lot more problems. And it’s non-trivial; the difference is quite profound. That report was not compartmentalized. That was something that Danny Sheehan says he has a copy of that. He never released it, but he has a copy of that. So I think, if Peterson is correct that towards the end of this year, we’re going to have a Disclosure, I think what that could be would be something like Obama ordering the Congressional Research Service to make this document publicly available. So you’ll have a Congressional Research Study becoming available saying that up to six extraterrestrial races are visiting us. BR: Is it possible that the ETs could force our hands by making appearances that would require that there be a governmental response? SB: It’s possible but it would not be a good thing. BR: It wouldn’t be a good thing? SB: No. BR: Why is that? SB: There’re basically two kinds... By the way, there’re a number of things I’d like to comment on at some point. BR: Yeah. KC: Well, no. Yeah, I think he…

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Now, the ETs can do it anytime they want, but I can’t worry about that. They’re going to do what they’re going to do. They don’t tell me what they’re up to. All I can do is try to help us get this self-disclosure process out of the way. BD: I’d like to ask a question, if I may, and I want to ask it of Alfred. Do you believe that this extraterrestrial presence should be a national security issue? AW: Well I believe yes and no. The yes part is, as researchers, we have come across the fact that, de facto, it is. The extraterrestrial presence is… has been handled since at least the ’50s on a national security level. For example, I worked with a researcher, Andrew Basiago, who in the company of his father, who was a CIA official, in 1981, at an Air Force base – at Wright Air Force Base in New Jersey [Ed note:googling “Wright AFB” brings up Wright-Patterson AFB in Ohio; googling New Jersey AFBs brings up McGuire AFB in Wrightstown, NJ] – had a meeting with three Martian astronauts from the intelligent civilization that lives under the surface of Mars. Now, they were there on a visit, on a coordinating visit, with the Central Intelligence Agency, which means that, if this version is true, since at least 1971 – just that data-point alone – the US Central Intelligence Agency, and perhaps other intelligence agencies, have some sort of a strategic alliance within our Solar System. Now, that may be a legitimate matter of national security. But now we have a whistleblower coming forth who is alleging this and who has a lot of data to back it up. So that may be a Disclosure, the issue of the U.S. presence on Mars. C I mean, Mr. Basiago in 1981 went to Mars via teleportation from a CIA teleportation launch room in El Segundo, California, in the company of then-CIA agent Courtney Hunt. These are all actual names. And Virginia Olds, a lifetime CIA employee, called him in January of ’09 to confirm that the CIA knows that there is an intelligent civilization under the surface of Mars. She said a million. I have no idea whether that is effective or not. So the ship is leaking. And whatever the matter of national security was in 1971 that caused these astronauts to come and have their liaison meeting, those matters should become public. And, if there is an Obama announcement... I mean, I’m just saying this from the particular view that our organization is pressing Obama to disclose the U.S. presence on Mars, and to disclose the strategic alliance that it has with the intelligent civilization on Mars. BD: Now, do you believe the American public, just as an example, and the public in the world at large, can deal with this information? AW: Yes. And, you know, we have objective data for that. If we go to the 2002 Roper Report, which is available on the Internet, there was a specific question that asked in that way. And the answer came back that 85 percent of the American public – and, by extension, I would imagine most adult publics – are congruent in terms of their religion, their personal values. The question was: If the government announced that there was an extraterrestrial presence, how would this impact you? And the answer was 85 percent: It’s congruent with my religion, with my personal values, and it would not ruffle any of those very much. So we say: The time is now, the place is Mars. Now, will the U.S. do it? They may not, because in certain ways, according to certain military plans or intelligence plans, it’s possible the U.S. base on Mars, or bases on Mars, may be considered one of the most strategic and important as a gateway to occupying the Solar System via teleportation. BR: I’d just like to say, Alfred, for the benefit of the cameras here and for anyone here who doesn’t know this story, that Henry Deacon, who is here at this conference, who was here in this room – I can’t see him right now -- is he there? SB: No. He stepped out. BR: He stepped out. He’s just coming in. Here he is. KC: Okay, well... go ahead, yes. BR: But we can talk about his testimony because we’ve already got it on the Camelot site and he supports this fully, as best as I’m aware. The Mars base has got a population, a peak population of 670,000. They travel there... KC: Give or take... BR: Give or take a few. You know, it depends on what you call human and what you don’t. They look like us pretty much. People can commute from this planet. KC: They’re known as the Anunnaki. That’s the name they go by. BR: Some of them are. Some of them are the Anunnaki of old, the same ones Sitchin talked about, who are now in a couple of factions. But there is a wide range of races, basically, who all look like humans, just as we do. And the travel is through... ah ... essentially, it’s teleportation. And this is one of the biggest secrets. They’ve got this huge base there. It’s a multi-functional base. KC: Okay. But we’re allowing the panel to talk here. BR: Exactly, but this is important information to put on camera. KC: Yes. It is. BR: And we just wanted to support you and we also want to support Andrew Basiago who we also know. We’re saying the

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guy’s not crazy. We’ve got somebody here in this room who can support this story. He doesn’t want to go on camera, but he can speak to the microphone, if he wants to. KC: Okay. What about some of the other panelists here? What is your point of view of Disclosure? PH: First of all, what you’re saying is probable, Alfred. I will say this now, but I will also disagree as far as going to the public with Grade Twelve, when we haven’t done Grade One, Two, Three, Four, and Five of Disclosure yet, because for me, as a teacher... And this is teaching the public, because they may be able to assimilate this information, but it’s hard to digest. It changed my whole entire life. When I met Hynek, [Ed note: Dr. Josef Allen Hynek] it took a long time for me to understand that contact was real. I didn’t want to believe that. I was a nuts and bolts UFOlogist. I wanted to look at the craft, the sightings. I did not want to go to the contact part. That was very hard for me, because it changed reality. So I disagree with saying that the general public could swallow this very easily. But I will support Alfred in this way: I did do an interview with Pierre Giorgio Agina, who was Marconi’s partner, and while I was doing that, he mentioned that Marconi, with the Vatican, had had Martian contact is 1939. And I knew this material. I did not put it out there, because the implications of the Vatican with Marconi and extraterrestrials are very heavy, but I will talk about it today. I’m not sure that the general public can go there, if they haven’t understood the nature of Roswell; the nature of the cover-up; the nature of visitation due to, maybe, our use of nuclear and the fact that all aliens are not Grays. These are things that we need to get straightened away, because I can tell you from having lived in Europe, where aliens look like us -- the Pleiadians, Billy Meier -- and that there are people in the universe who look like us. And then I go and move to America, and on every single magnet, t-shirt, magazine and everything, I see only the stamp of the Gray being. That is where they want us to remain in America, because, if you believe that these extraterrestrials could be – and the Martians are some of them that look like us, you know, if you believe that -- then it becomes very dangerous. As Colonel Corso said: We weren’t afraid of the Extraterrestrial Biological Entities – he said at the Pentagon – because they were Extraterrestrial Biological Entities; we were deathly afraid of their creators, or what could be walking in the halls of the Pentagon. So this is very complex. I’m not sure the general pubic, the whole world and everybody needs to have the whole, entire thing in one big swallow, because it’s very difficult to digest. BR: Yeah. Thank you, Paola. I want to bring in Brian here, because I have a sneaking idea that I know what he’s going to say, but I’ll ask him this question, which is: Have we got time to be precious about this Disclosure issue? Do we have time on planet Earth, do you believe? B’OL: Well, we’re obviously at a huge crossroads here and I’m aware of the psychological implications of the grieving process that’s going on right now, that we’re grieving an old paradigm and transforming to a new. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross, in some of her work, talks about the phases of grief. We’ve been in a state of mass denial, denial always being the first stage; the second stage is usually anger. I had this bumper sticker for a while that said: The truth will set you free, but first -- it’ll piss you off! And I think that we’re poised on that. People are getting very angry and outraged by these cover-ups, so there has to be a process that, maybe, we can help engineer – and I know, Steve, you’ve been involved in this – of creating some sort of negotiating where the transition isn’t too painful for any particular group. And that we can get out of this swamp you referred to, Bill, the swamp of deceit and lies and spin. We’re, I think, in a situation now where, maybe, we can discuss with our adversaries. Obviously, the darkest agendas we hear about -- like eugenics and so forth -- are horrible and we don’t have to do that. I’d like to be able to discuss that, ultimately, with the rest of the world, or even with those individuals who are in charge, to be able to say: Well, maybe we can do something else? Maybe we can have a world of free energy? Maybe we can support the current population? Maybe we can make the contact experience a positive thing for all of us? And that is the direction I’d like to see us go in. Rather than coming out fear, come out of a sense of diplomacy and understanding all around. BR: That’s a great bridge into the potential role of Exopolitics. I wonder who wants to pick up that ball and run with it. RF: Can I say something? BR: Rob. RF: Now, you are all great researchers sitting on this table and it’s doubtlessly so interesting listening to all of the insider stories and all of the testimony; but, what you just said actually means that we need to find a way to -- and Paola said that, too -- we need to find a way to prepare the understanding of the whole thing. We need to make people aware that we are not looking at something like at a bottle, like I’m looking at the bottle and, you know, after five minutes, I will have looked at it from any perspective possible and I will have understood it entirely. No, it’s the opposite.

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We are on this tiny little planet. We’re looking outwards. That means that anything’s possible in the universe, so I think that’s the paradigm thing that we have to prepare, but how do we do that? I think the strategy is probably not in telling everything we know and giving out the information like that. I think it’s much more basic than that. It’s like... Well, yeah, let’s [unclear] evidence, first of all. And then I think it’s also about showing relationship between the UFO cover-up and certain other things that are going on in the world. I think that’s also important. When we talk about the understanding of the greater reality that these visitors live in, it’s also important to know that we wait for the paradigm shift, but there are also people in quantum physics who’ve been waiting for paradigm shifts for almost one hundred years now, [laughs] you know? So, maybe, the third thing is cooperation with certain other groups; anyway, I think the nuts-and-bolts thing is the most important. B’OL: And I just want to return for a moment to the question of how much time do we have? I happen to feel that the ecological condition of the Earth – just giving my research – is so grave that we’re going to have to create the foundation of cooperation in the very near future. To be able to come up with new paradigms of Disclosure that will allow us to develop the new paradigm; to develop the energy sources we need to tide us over; to be able to directly confront alternative agendas and be open about it, at least with those who are in control now. And, in terms of the release of the information, that it would be based more on just reasonable – ah, how should I say it? – a reasonable, but chaotic transition period. BR: [laughs] That’s great! KC: Well, I sort of want to say that, in answer to what Bob Dean is talking about, Disclosure is happening. It has been happening. We’re part of it – Camelot; Paola, one of the early pioneers in this area; Alfred Webre, Exopolitics; you know, Michael Salla, etc. – it’s already been done, you know, if you will, the work has been done. This is the funny thing about all this. Obama’s announcement is actually coming at the end – I’m just positing here for your consideration, from my point of view – the end of the process rather than the beginning. It’s already out there. Spielberg did it for you. We did it. It’s been done. The fact is, what we’re really talking about, is something coming at the tail end for the people who have not gotten clued in up to now. Now, I’m well aware, it’s the majority of the populations out there, quite possibly, but I actually have a sort of optimistic view of the level of intelligence out there, and the fact that we are all ETs anyway. So you have to keep in mind that we came here – these bodies are temporary, okay? It’s a much bigger reality, and even the most silly, dumb person out there has consciousness of having been able to go other places -- in their dreams, if nowhere else. So the consciousness is actually out there. It’s like, it’s ready; it’s primed. And it’s been primed in part by the controllers, if you will, as well as us – okay? – who have picked up the ball and run with it; and we, hopefully, have run with it farther and faster than they wanted us to. BR: Maybe it sounds as if the ground … perfect [overtalk], I mean, is this perfect timing now? KC: Well, listen to what Alfred Webre’s talking about, and the sun cycle 24, and actually what we’re moving into, which is the period between now and 2017. BR: The Matrix of Time Acceleration... how about that? KC: We’re talking about a consciousness change that’s making all of this possible and accelerating it all very quickly, so that change is not going to happen in the same way it’s happened in the past. It can’t. Brian O’Leary, you’re right. So where do we go from here? How do we get it out there even further? And if the government... the government is coming at the tailend, because the government is not in control; Obama is not in control. We all know that. He’s the front guy. Okay? They’ve got technology, according to our whistleblowers, that is quite likely 10,000 years in advance of anything we are dealing with right here and now in this reality. We’ve been held back for a very long time on this planet. It’s time that we actually take this baton in our hands, and say: Okay. You want to run with this, Obama? We’re going to give you a run for your money. And, actually, that’s what this is all about, okay? We’re going to release this video. It’s going out there and we’re going to say: You know what? We already know. We don’t need Obama sitting on a pedestal to tell us that Disclosure is now. Disclosure is. It has been, and we are clued in. Now, if the rest of the people out there aren’t clued in, we’re going to continue to do our jobs. We’re going to wake up the planet. Obama is just one individual and he’s only representing a very fake part of the government anyway. So let’s say Disclosure is Us, in a certain sense. PH: Very briefly, can I remind you of one scene in Close Encounters? And this is very brief.

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All the witnesses that had seen the lights came to a press conference, something like this, and they all said: I saw this light, and everybody in the media believed them. They were, you know, they were talking about their experiences. Then, out of the blue, this man stands up in the back and says: And yeah, I saw Bigfoot the other day. Right back – I saw Bigfoot – and Bigfoot exists, so let’s not even go there. I closed down the whole entire truth-saying, because Spielberg was trying to say that people cannot digest too much, too fast. BD: Speaking of digestion, do you believe – and I’ll throw this out to the panel – do any of you believe that the American public, en masse, can deal with the reality of having been lied to and cheated for the last 65 years, if they were to learn that we have a separate space program? KC: Didn’t you learn it? Didn’t you deal with it? BD: Yeah, and my whole damn paradigm collapsed around me! That’s why I’m sitting here angry today! You know, I have guns in my home [Kerry laughs] and I’m almost to the point of grabbing my American flag, putting on my old uniform, and going into the damn streets and causing a riot, because of the fact that I have learned how many lies have been told for the last 65 years. Now, take Joe Blow, Joe Six-pack out there in Kansas, and he finds out that he’s been conned for so damn long... PH: [laughing] It’s true. BD: ...by a bunch of stinking politicians in Washington. And he’s going to find out that he’s got a separate space program? That NASA is a joke? And we are on Mars and we can step through a portal in S4 and end up in Pine Gap? These are realities and facts, and it took me a hell of a long time to digest this and not lose it, you know? Because I’m a typical Joe Blow. I was trained to be an infantryman. I’ve been a grunt. I’ve been in two wars. I was this close to going out there and beating the hell out of some of those government authorities. Do you think that the average American is going to be able to handle it? KC: They just found out that the government has been lying to them and stealing their money right, left, and center. They’re still not in the streets. BD: They are suspicious and they have feelings that maybe they’ve been conned. But the con is so big... KC: Absolutely. PH: Yes. BD: ...that when the average guy out there in the street in Kansas City or Sacramento or wherever, when this really hits him, the impact is going to be devastating. BR: There’s a possibility here that they might ameliorate their own problem of Disclosure by giving us some other problems, as well to take our minds off this. This is beyond the scope of this conference, but if they crash the dollar... KC: No, actually, let’s look at this. Why now? Think about this. Let’s have some... step up to the plate here, Michael. What do you think? Why now? MS: I think that a big factor that’s driving this is that there is a major dispute between the controllers. On the one hand, you’ve got those that are tied up with the corporations -- Majestic, who have trans-nationalized this whole ET phenomenon; reverse-engineering going to corporations, and enormous profits beings made, deals being made, ETs being involved in these deals. And, on the other hand, you have a kind of more constitutional group -- which is lead by the U.S. Navy -- that has traditionally been more tidy with representing the national interests. The Navy, as I understand it, is very upset with the way the whole management system has been trans-nationalized, has been taken out of the hands of constitutional government in the U.S., and that the Navy is fighting back. And I think it’s very important to point out the role of the Navy in the Obama administration. His Director of National Intelligence, Dennis Blair, is an ex-four-star Admiral. His National Security Advisor, Jim Jones, is a four-star Marine and the Marines are traditionally Navy; they’re a kind of sub-service of the Navy. And now you’ve had recently the appointment of a NASA administrator who is an ex-Marine, a General, again, in the Marines. What you have here is, in the background, a process by which these... and all of these people that I’ve named have been briefed fully on the UFO issue. They know about the black projects. And I think they are the ones that are preparing the groundwork for this to be moved forward. I know that the Navy has been also involved in other things, such as the 2008 disclosure of secret meetings at the UN concerning UFOs; and, that a senior Navy UFO working group was involved in that; and, I’ve recently been out to confirm that two of the Vice-Admirals, three-star Admirals, that were involved in that were -- there was a blowback for that -- and they were basically forced into retirement; and, I can’t name them at this point. But there’s been a struggle. The Navy took the initiative, disclosing these UN meetings; there was blowback; two threestar Admirals were sacked, but that was kind of 16 months ago, so there’s been time for the Navy to reorganize.

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Now you’ve got these Navy people surrounding Obama, so I think we are going to see this moving forward and the Navy’s going to be playing a big role in that. BD: Do all of you remember the movie called Seven Days in May? MS: Sure. BD: And you know what the gist of it was, that a bunch of admirals and generals were going to take over the country? KC: Mm-hm. BD: Let me tell you something – and I have this from first-hand sources – there is a whole passel of Generals and Admirals that are so pissed off about this cover-up and the lies that are being told that they’re this close to... I don’t know whether they want to take over the country, but I think they damn well want the truth to come out. KC: Yeah. I think we can see some of the resignations that have been happening as a result of that. BD: These guys are honorable men. They give their lives to their country and they’re not going to put up with this crap any more. KC: I mean, we’re talking about the United States and this is a worldwide situation. What’s interesting is that Henry Deacon is in the audience and he is nodding yes to what you’ve just said. And in fact, Camelot is alive and operational – and we have been told this by a number of people on the inside – because, we are protected by just such people, which we call White Hats. It’s just a terminology. BD: The reason I’m alive is because of some of those people. KC: There you go. Part 2 of 2 KERRY CASSIDY (KC): So, certainly, the White Hats have been behind the scenes working to make this Disclosure even possible. In a sense, our Pete Peterson is a White Hat. His background is ten years as a Marine. Okay? You wanted to say something, Rob? ROBERT FLEISCHER (RF): Yes, and then I will give it over to Dr. O’Leary. I just wanted to say... I mean, I’m the only German guy here. You’re mostly Americans. [comments, crosstalk, responses, laughter] PAOLA HARRIS (PH): British. NICK POPE (NP): British. RF: …you know, in my sense, I think that’s the best thing we can do, to have a multi-polar world. And, then, I think Disclosure will be much more likely than what we have right now. [to Brian O’Leary] Now, please... BRIAN O’LEARY (BO’L): Yeah. I was just going to return to this issue of anger, because I think that’s the largest obstacle to Disclosure, just in general, is how are people reacting, or going to react, to Disclosure... BOB DEAN (BD): ...having been conned for so many years... BO’L: …having been conned for so many years. And, to my way of thinking, this is the kind of... anger management might be the right kind of approach for this, especially in America. And I think you’re right, the multi-polar world, I think, if America could recognize that a little bit more and kind of loosen up a little bit, that, maybe, there is a way of slipping through this period, which is... RF: Yes, British. I’m the only German guy. I didn’t say I’m the only non... and Australian, of course, and British as well. But this is like the Anglo – how do you say? – the Anglophobic world. I think that there is a real chance for Disclosure when the AngloSaxon banking system goes down. And I think that there is a good chance that this can happen quite fast. I mean, all of the sort of debt of the United States is actually in the hands of the Chinese. And you have emerging states, like, especially, the Chinese, the... ah... you have India, you have Russia and you have Brazil. So, all of these countries, they deal with the UFO issue in a much more open way than the Americans do, for obvious reasons. I mean, like, in Brazil, they have open UFO files with UFO encounters in the jungle, which is amazing. In India, they have the flying vimanas and it’s part of their culture, actually, the flying gods that came from heaven and helped to create human culture. So, for them, it’s not such a big issue that there’re extraterrestrials. And, just recently, I talked to a Chinese master of a spiritual... ah... a spiritual thing. I don’t know how to describe it now in English. Anyway, she told me that she knows that extraterrestrial contact is actually something considered official in China, that there are university professors openly dealing with the content of what the contactees are being told by them, and how it all relates to quantum physics and stuff. I think that this is actually a very interesting thing, and that this might emerge when we live not in a mono-polar world, but in a multi-polar world, which I hope will happen soon. Excuse me for that. [laughs] I don’t want to offend you Americans, but… KC: Absolutely.

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Obviously heads are going to roll. There are going to be a lot of vindictiveness and anger; and, somehow, that needs to be managed in a way that’s for everybody’s benefit. And that’s the big issue. BD: You live out of the country at the moment. BO’L: Yes. BD: So, you may have lost touch with a few things. And I’m not saying this in a negative sense. I live in Arizona, and there is a run on ammunition. People are buying guns and ammunition in the Southwest to such a level that the sporting goods stores and the gun stores cannot keep a stock on hand, because the minute they get a shipment, the shelves are cleaned out! Now, this is the group of people that I happen to know pretty well, because I came from that group. They are stockpiling guns; they’re stockpiling ammunition; and, when the word comes out how they’ve been conned and lied to for so long, you’re going to have blood in the streets. And, I think, the Obama crowd, being sharp, know this. I don’t believe that Obama is going to let this... he doesn’t want this on his plate right now, because he’s got so damn many other things to deal with. BILL RYAN (BR): Steve, what do you think about…? BD: When you start thinking about how many people out there throughout the country are buying guns and stockpiling ammunition, that is an indication that there is a level of frustration and anger out there in the American masses that the politicians in Washington may not even be aware of. BR: Stephen talks to politicians all the time -- don’t you, Stephen? STEPHEN BASSETT (SB): Not exactly. But, one of my concerns here is we’re about to go on the radio in a couple of minutes. BR: Yep. We’ll just continue as... SB: But, I mean, there’s... that audience is coming in… BR: Right. KC: That’s right. SB: ...so they don’t know what’s going on. So, I’m going to make a very quick comment, because there’re a lot of things I’d like to comment on, but there’s no antecedent for the audience. I’ll have to kind of re-up it, but, let me just say this. This is very short and sums up a lot of things. I believe that the principle reason that Americans are experiencing so much angst and frustration, cynicism and SB: Why? I’m talking about extraterrestrials in the sense of nonhuman beings, as we understand them, with technology beyond what we have. Whether they’re from the Inner Earth, from another dimension, from the past, from other star systems – Occam’s razor would say from other star systems – wherever they’re from, right? It is a major event and a significant thing for the world’s population to know this, and that crossing point, when that selfacknowledgement occurs, is a big deal. Now, the particulars: We know there’s a huge sub-story here. We know that behind this is a massive story. It’s huge and broad, and everybody is trying to understand it. Everybody knows a little about it, a little here, and so forth. Nobody knows the full story; nobody’s got it all right. They know a little piece. BD: Robbed! Robbed, for God’s sake! SB: ...and stolen blind. So, I sort of view it the other way. If you want people to stop being paranoiac and stop being distrustful of the government and stop arming themselves, you need to start telling the truth. If you start telling the truth and things’ll get better. Acknowledging the ET presence is a big, big one and that’ll get the ball rolling. Hopefully, it will lead to a – how would you say? – a reformist era, where the truth becomes Standard Operating Procedure. Holding back, waiting [and] somehow keeping the secret longer? I don’t think it’s going to make it any better; it’s only going to get worse. And the last thing I’ll say is this: ETs aren’t just here for the Americans. They didn’t come all this way because This America thing, we got to tell them the truth. Right? They’re here engaging the entire planet. We [Americans] represent five percent of the world’s population. It comes down to this: It doesn’t really matter whether the Americans are ready or not, or the Bangladeshis, or the French, or the Russians. They’re going to deal with it, whether they like it or not, because it’s going to happen, whether they like it or not. It’s unavoidable and inevitable. BD: Make a point, Stephen, that the ETs are not visitors, for God’s sake. SB: Well, again, I’m... BD: They’re not just visiting here. They’ve been here from the beginning of our history. SB: But that distinction doesn’t affect my political point. BD: Well, it ought to! paranoia, the principle reason that they are buying guns and/or expressing themselves in ways which are concerning, is not because they’ve been told terrible truths, but because they’ve been lied to extensively for the last, well, going back to the Vietnam War, primarily, the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution...

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The dilemma is that the political process, or the social transition, is not about figuring the whole thing out and bringing it out to the public and saying: Here. We can’t do that. Disclosure is nothing more than the first step towards that process. Because, once the governments formally acknowledge this reality and the schools can teach it, and the philanthropists can fund it, and the media can cover it, and the intellectuals can discuss it -- then we can start sorting the whole damn thing out and say: This is nonsense; that’s not true; this person’s a fraud; that person’s the real deal; that story’s good; that story’s bad. And, actually, create a real history of this issue as best we can. But, until Disclosure takes place, that’s not going to happen. We’re going to continue to churn, and churn, and churn. And remember that this arena, this hall of smoke and mirrors we’re in, we didn’t build it -- the government built it. The government put those mirrors up; put the smoke in the hall. They have deliberately made it very difficult, if not impossible, to have a clear understanding. That was a government policy. We have to end that policy, and Disclosure is the end of that policy. And that’s Disclosure with a capital D; a formal acknowledgement of the ET presence. That’s it, nothing more. Disclosure with a small d has been going on for a long time, no question, an unfolding of information, citizen process, misinformation; all mixed in. That’s small d. All right? That’s been happening, absolutely, no question. BUT in spite of all that disclosure with a small d, do the universities teach it? Does the press properly cover it? Does the government fund it? Do we have, you know, think tanks devoted to it? No, we don’t. What government does -- matters. What Obama and the administration does -- matters; and, so they have to act. You can’t ignore government, right? You know, people want peace and they say: Well, I want peace, so the government doesn’t matter... until the government comes and takes your son or your daughter and sends them off to war. What government does -- matters; so, we have to engage it, and we have to deal with the process, using the institutions we have, to get the proper result. BD: You all are aware of the Pandora’s Box story, the legend going back to ancient Greece. Pandora’s Box had all the Furies in Hell of the entire world, locked and sealed. You open Pandora’s Box just a little tiny bit and all Hell breaks loose, because you can’t release just a little tiny bit. If you release just one little tiny bit, you’ve got a million questions and a million pissed off people wanting to know the rest of it. And I don’t believe that our government, at this moment, is in any position to even begin to tell them the rest of the story. Because do you know about the impact on theology? You know what the Brookings Report said. You try to tell the people out there that Jesus of Nazareth was one of Them [points up] – and the evidence we’ve all had is: Yes, he was. Now, how do you tell that to fundamentalists? RF: Excuse me... BD: Look at the Muslim world right now. RF: The Brookings Report, that was in 1961 or something. BD: ’61. Yes. RF: I mean, now we have 2009. BD: Robert, it’s still national… RF: [unclear] ...as a kind of representative of the younger generation... BD: ...policy, sadly enough. RF: Okay, okay, okay. Maybe, you know, in many generations – it’s a problem for many generations, obviously. But I have to tell you. I belong to a younger generation. I know many people my age and younger. For them it’s not so unimaginable. It’s not so... When you say: You know, the American government, or certain people in the military-industrial complex, covered that up. They say: All right. Yeah, yeah, I can imagine that. You know, it’s not a big deal for them. [laughs] [everyone talks at once] KC: Okay. Let me... Hello, hello, hello! Let me interrupt. We’re going on the air. Bill, are you announcing? Are we on the air? We should be on the air at the moment, according to the time. [Kerry and Bill discuss computer setup for radio broadcast] KC: Go ahead, you guys. Let’s continue this. The younger generation... you want to say something, Brian? BO’L: Yes. What I wanted to say is that it seems like that the problem... you know, we obviously have a tiger by the tail here, [Bob Dean laughs] and that we all recognize that anger is an initial reaction once Disclosure really unfolds with a capital D. So, if we can recognize this, and our so-called adversaries, let’s say the keepers of the secrets, can sit down at a table and negotiate the release of the information where, in their perception, it wouldn’t hurt them that much – just maybe that’s the opening. It seems like that’s the nub of the issue is that the cover-up and the encrustation of cover-ups going on for the last 65 years has created this Pandora’s Box which, if opened, could lead to a process of truth and reconciliation – which would, just perhaps, launch us into the new paradigm, which is so badly needed anyway, in order to save our precious planet.

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So that’s the way I’d like to see it, is to provide the basis for some sort of negotiation, or process of truth and reconciliation, to be able to create certain levels of amnesty and... BD: You want us to forgive the sinners, do you? [laughs] BO’L: Well, eventually, yes. PAOLA HARRIS (PH): It’s going to happen. [vigorous crosstalk] SB: We do it all the time. VOICE: Yes, I’m sorry. KC: The filmmakers have something… VOICE: Yeah, I just have one thing that I want to put out there, because we’re talking about two scenarios at a time, because the real thing -- what’s going on, the cover-up? I’m afraid, certain of the third phenomena, it’s the counterfeit. I mean, the black operations, the manifestations, the false Second Coming, the manufacture... KC: Project Blue Beam. We’re getting to that, actually, yes. VOICE: [continues speaking but is inaudible] KC: Okay. The filmmakers would like to us to address that. Yes. That’s important. Okay. We’re going there. Actually, just so you guys know... BD: False... KC: Yeah, one of the... yeah. What we’re talking about here is when I said: Why now? Part of the question is: Why now in this juncture? And what is it, as part of the possible agenda, what these people have in mind? Because they don’t do things without sort of a self-serving angle involved, and it may be that they’re preparing the groundwork for what will be a false alien invasion scenario. NP: I’ll speak to this, because I’ve actually been accused of playing a part in this. KC: Oh great. Go ahead. NP: If you Google the phrase false-flag alien invasion, you’ll obviously, as you’re well aware, find a lot of material -- quite a lot of it increasingly being pegged on 2012, which has been linked in. Specifically, in some instances, pegged on the Olympic Games to be held in London, and possibly some event supposedly taking place at maybe the closing ceremony. Now, my involvement with this is that, in amongst my freelance journalism work, I’ve done, I guess, about two or three things, which kind of went on the radar with certain people, if you’ll excuse the pun. The first was I wrote an op-ed in the New York Times, which went out under the title Unidentified Flying Threats. That went out, I think, on July 29th last year [2008]. A very interesting thing for the conspiracy theorists was right underneath – if you’re one of these people who looks for juxtaposition of headlines – was an unrelated (or was it?) article entitled Can Obama Handle the Offense? So a lot of people read something into that. I also do a lot of work with The Sun; Britain’s best-selling national daily newspaper. I worked on a story, which went out under the headline Shoot Down the UFO. That, then, got picked up by Fox News and, as some of you may have seen, I was interviewed by Bill Hemmer on that show two or three months back. So, I’m sort of sounding a little bit defensive here, because, when you mention things like Blue Beam and False-Flag Alien Invasion, because of those media things I’ve done, I’ve actually been put in the frame as one of the guilty parties, and I’d like to absolutely assure everyone that I’m not. BD: You’re innocent? NP: Yeah. I’m innocent. Can I get back to a question, which you asked about half an hour ago, which I didn’t get to answer, and I’m going to give you an answer. KC: Sure, absolutely. NP: You mentioned Pete Peterson, who I don’t know and haven’t met. No reason to doubt his bona fides, or anything. But my personal answer to the question you asked of Paola: Will this happen? Is No. I say that for a boring statistical reason, really, but one that can be verified. Out of all the predictions of either (A) some sort of landing or undeniable alien intervention, or (B) all the predictions of Disclosure... out of all the ones that have been made, a grand total of zero have actually come to pass. So just from a boring statistical point of view, I’m reasonably confident that the deadline... I think you were saying November, this year? KC: Well, actually we were saying end of the year. NP: It, I think, will come and go without incident. Can I pick up on point also that I think Bob made? It’s something that’s been running through a lot of... or all of us seem to leave out – lack of trust in government. I’ll just throw this out in a wider point of view. Something Robert said, that people of his generation, if this was unpacked to them that they’d been lied to would just say: Yeah. So what? We thought that was probably true these things were going on. We never did trust the government.

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I’m from the UK. Trust in government in the UK at the moment, on just about every issue, is at an all-time low. I don’t know how many of the British news stories have made the media, but our members of parliament have been making bogus claims for expenses and the most outrageous things that we, the taxpayers, have been paying for. Some of them have resigned. Most have not. Just today it was announced on the news, possibly 100,000 cases of swine flu just in the last week, according to some statistical analyses. BD: In the UK? NP: In the UK alone. Now, that’s at the high end of the estimate scale, and estimates of deaths are about 100 from that, depending on whose figures you listen to. My point is, the other story that came out today was that the Help Line, which has now gone live – this is the government Help Line, arguably one of the most important issues affecting the British people. The people who are manning the Help Lines are not medically trained. Some of them were not even interviewed for those jobs. And, guess what? It doesn’t matter anyway, because the website’s down, because too many people are trying to log on and get through. So I think a lot of discussions... I know I’ve gone slightly off topic; but, actually, you know, I probably haven’t, because I think faith in government and institutions is at an all-time low. So if it does transpire they’ve lied to us about this, yes, it’s a massive lie, but people won’t be surprised. AW: It can’t get any worse. SB: The point of pride… BD: Let me remind you of something. I know that in the UK they don’t trust their politicians. We don’t trust our politicians. But your politicians caused a scene in 1776 and look what happened. Now, that could tell you what politicians screwing things up can do! NP: Yes, but [overtalk] BD: …Revolution, in 1776. That spirit, Nick, let me really tell you, and let me reassert this. That same damn spirit exists in the American people today, and they are as capable in 2009 of doing what they did in 1776. That’s what I’m concerned about. KC: Yeah. I think that’s important. Absolutely. As a moderator, I want to say here that there’s a youth and age part of this story. Because the anger, I’m going to say, is in the people who’ve been around a long time with the cover-up. The youth have not. Okay? At least not in this body. And I want to say that anger is not so much an issue over this particular thing – the cover-up – as it is that in a certain sense the youth will turn on a dime, often, will understand, and they’re being sold movies out there that older people don’t even go to. BD: Our Director of Homeland Security recently went public on national media and expressed her view that the returning veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan are not to be trusted, because they know how to use guns. And they’re coming back, and they look around, and they’re pissed off. Now this woman used to be the Governor of Arizona. She’s now Director of the Department of Homeland Security. She went on national publication and said: These guys are dangerous, you know? They know how to use guns and they’re coming back and they’re angry. Well, she touched the tip of the iceberg, let me tell you. Who the hell do you think are out there buying the guns and ammunition? A lot of them are the guys coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan. Actually, they want chaos because they want to eliminate a large number of the population, and the viruses, and the chemtrails, and what’s going on, is contributing to that. [to the audience] Go ahead... [unclear comment from off stage] I go to them, so I know they’re out there. I know they’ve been taught a lot of information, secret information, in the guise of what looks like a childish story. So, I have to say that, in some ways, it’s true what you’re saying, Rob. It’s not going to blow them away, if some President gets up there and says: Hello, ET’s real. Of course they’re real! That’s going to be the attitude. I know that would my attitude, especially if I was that age, and I know that it’s going to be true of a lot of kids. But, there’s another side to this, and this is also valid, and it is that there are Americans preparing, as we speak, for the dissolution of what is, in essence, the American government. Okay? That the cracks... the ship is leaking and has been leaking for a very long time; that patriots and people that have come from the military are fed up; that there’s a huge contingence of that going on. And that this Disclosure issue of truths in general – that they’ve been lying on the money, the financial end of things; the society, the way they’ve been brought up, the things they’re supposed to do with their lives... The paradigm, the old paradigm, is crumbling. And, within the crumbling and the dissolution, the controllers know damn well [that] if you just take one more thing and tip the straw off the camel’s back – it’s going to be the Disclosure issue in terms of ETs. There will be chaos. They’re causing chaos. In fact, that’s what they want, I would suggest, and you can all address this, if you will. But they’re not looking for things to go smoothly right now.

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KC: Well, I have to say that... well, I shouldn’t name names, but some of our whistleblowers have actually said the exact same thing. BD: Yeah. Well... KC: And they are, themselves, preparing. Let’s put it that way. BD: I know that. BO’L: And they’re young people. BD: Well, to me, anyone under 50 is young, you know? [laughter] KC: But most of our whistleblowers are not young. They’re actually older than the age 50. SB: Are we on radio yet, by any chance? KC: [to Bill] What’s going on? [Bill and Kerry converse re: broadcast situation; Bill confirms the panel is streaming live audio.] KC: Okay. So let’s continue with this. SB: I would like to comment here, because there’re a lot of things being said that I don’t agree with and I think I need to make a point, lest I be accused of agreeing. I am reminded of Jefferson’s quote, that, on occasion, the Tree of Liberty needs to be fertilized with the blood of revolution. But, that said, I don’t believe there’s going to be a revolution. I don’t believe there’s going to be violence in the wake of Disclosure at all. I don’t think there’s going to be a substantial panic. I don’t think anything’s going to happen in that regard. As I’ve said, I believe that Disclosure will be two things in one. It will be the most profound event in human history, and it will be the most anti-climactic event in human history – thanks to 60some years of information upon information, and media, and everything else. I mean, we have saturated the world with this issue. And the ETs, of course, have helped by constantly coming and going. In the world today, the most-known acronym is USA. The second most-known acronym in the world today, amongst everybody, all six billion: UFO. Everywhere. And then, the average population of Iran, thirty-three. [Ed note: meaning average age] So, look, there’s going to be some angry people, and there’s going to be some people that have grudges, and there are issues to address. But, the first thing that will happen with the acknowledgement of the ET presence is the world will want to know: What, Why, Where, and When. Tell me more. Tell me more. The issues and the grievances will be shoved completely aside. And for the next weeks, months, or whatever, there’ll be some sort of information exchange. The government is not stupid. They’re not going to come out initially with the stuff that’s going to make them look awful and flammable. BD: Some of them are. I’ve met them, dammit. SB: Other governments may choose to... BD: Some of them are stupid, because I’ve met them. Nick will tell you, some of their politicians are stupid. SB: Well hopefully they won’t do that. I would think that they will come out with those things which are relatively positive and reinforcing, and over time, we will get into some of the wilder and crazier stuff. They’ve had 60 years to plan this. It’s not going to be a random event, unless the ETs force it. And I say this, because, look -- I respect all of my colleagues’ opinions, believe me. I respect Bob tremendously. But, feeling as I do, I don’t want to be going to the public on the air, and on radio and television, and telling millions of people there’re going to be blood in the streets, there’s going to be a revolution. PH: No, I don’t want to do that to people either. SB: If I thought that, by God, I’d say it. But, I think we have to circumspect here, because we are dealing with a profound thing. PH: I agree with Steve. SB: There’re a lot of reasons for people being angry with government right now. Without any ETs, you still have lots of problems, and we’re going to still have those problems the day after Disclosure. But, ultimately, when the government starts telling the truth, things are likely to get better. And the last thing I’ll say is this: When the Vietnam War ended, one of the first questions that, I think, was posed to the Vietnam War activists was: All of your anti-war stuff all of these years -can you tell us that you shortened the Vietnam War by a single day? And the answer is: It wasn’t really clear. May not. Probably didn’t. And we’re going to be asked the same question: You rattled our cages for all of these years. Did you bring Disclosure one day sooner than the government would have done it anyway? And the answer is: I don’t know; very likely not. But it doesn’t matter, because all of this has raised the public awareness and brought these issues out and spread them around the globe, on the Net and every way, so hundreds of millions of

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people are getting a sense, an understanding, an awareness. So, when it does happen, they’re going to be a little more ready. And, if some fool in some government somewhere says: Let’s take advantage of this big deal. Let’s concoct something. I think if we get an alien war thing out there, we’re going to be able to spend trillions of dollars, and I’ve got companies we can fund… I think the Internet, and you, and your colleagues are going to shred it in about 24 hours, break it out in the open, and these people will already be on their way to jail. We are raising public awareness to get Disclosure. When it’ll happen? Hopefully soon. But, it’s not simply about Disclosure; it’s about understanding. KC: Okay... BD: We don’t have enough jail room to handle all of the government people, like the guys in the House and the Senate, who should go to jail. SB: We’ll put ’em in the FEMA camps. [laughter] KC: All right. This is good energy! Let’s let Alfred have his say here. AW: I’d like to jump in here on a couple of points to make; first of all, to make the point of – and raise the awareness – that we’re talking about a planetary issue and not an issue of the U.S. And Steve mentioned Iran. Well, it just so happened; I want to make an announcement that I was contacted by Iranian National Television, and they will be calling in tomorrow at 5 pm – I’ll take it on my cell phone – to interview me on the subject of the extraterrestrial presence on the Moon. So, this is breaking through all of the national stereotypes that we have. If we look at the era that we’re in, it’s an era of Galactic consciousness, and that is moving beyond being Spaniards, or being Americans, or Canadians, and moving beyond even being citizens of planet Earth -- to being citizens of an organized and populated Galaxy. That’s where the leading edge of Exopolitics is, really. Now, jumping to the second point, this thing about the dissolution of the US -- I can remember being a futurist at the Center for the Study of Social Policy at Stanford Research Institute in 1977, the same year that we were doing the Carter White House extraterrestrial-proposed study. It was common parlance –- in the halls –- of the plan to break up the US into five or six contiguous regions; Washington and Oregon was Ecotopia, you know? [laughs] And there were various names for the other regions. So, I think that those of us who can appreciate that there are trans-national forces running some of the shadow government elements of the US, the whole plan for the dissolution of the US now is really a trial balloon that has been in the planning, in the think-tanks, for over 40 years: Oh yeah, let’s dissolve the US and, you know, we do a Soviet Union on it, and then we go on to some other market. I think I’d like to really appeal to the patriotism of Robert Dean here and to what Steven said that, on some esoteric levels, the United States is supposed to be an expression of the Enlightenment; kind of an inheritor of the Enlightenment of the days when Egypt and Mars were one civilization – we have some proof of that now from the Mars Rover photographs. So, I would tend to resist identifying with disintegrating the US now, because I think it’s part of a manipulation. Finally, I’d like to put my vote – I could be wrong – more on the 2002 Roper Report, rather than on the Brookings Report. That means that, when queried, 85 percent of people were completely congruent, were totally cool, with the specific question: If the government were to announce an extraterrestrial presence, how would you react? And eighty-five percent said: It wouldn’t bother me a bit. I think that the opposite could be true, and that is that there would be celebrations. You have even activists in our camp who talk about having rock extraterrestrial concerts to welcome in this age. It’s kind of a falling of the Berlin Wall, and it’s more of a birth, rather than a death of the old system. There’s always been kind of a bifurcation in Exopolitics, which, I think, Michael and Paola and I were talking about today. That is, do we focus on the short Grays and the Reptilians and their reported plans for extermination of two-thirds of the human race with the H1N1 virus, or some other virus? For which there is some possible evidence to start thinking that way. You know, there’s been research informally that has surfaced here that there may be negative extraterrestrial influence behind the chemtrails phenomenon, which I think has been mentioned in some contexts as possibly carrying a precursor of the H1N1 virus. – Or, do we concentrate on the positive leading edge of the evidence that there’s a strategic alliance of ethical upperdimensional extraterrestrials -- the White Hats -- I think, that people were talking about? I could easily see a scenario, if we have the government that has the courage to do it – and I don’t know whether the Obama administration that hasn’t been able to close Guantanamo, which is a blatant war crime – could do that. But they could spin it to say: Look, for national security reasons, we have maintained diplomatic relations, and we’ve had strategic alliances with the following... and, for national security reasons, we’ve had to withhold that from you for 60 years, for the following reasons. And there could be plausible reasons there, including military attacks by the Grays. I think that a population would be more in relief and celebration, rather than reacting violently and with despair.

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SB: Alfred, when the University of Exopolitics is finally founded, we’re only going to let you teach the graduate courses. [laughter] BO’L: Yeah, I see what’s going on right now is this two-edged sword. There is, on the one hand, the perception that anger could be released. That would, obviously, be a perception shared by those keeping the secrets; then, on the other hand, a time of great celebration for the new paradigm. I see it as a concomitant process that both of the above will be happening and there will be a period of chaos. It’s a time of crisis and opportunity, and a group like this can mediate those discussions and bring it out into the open. NP: I think Steve’s right with his When, What, Why kind of point. You know, in my experience of the media, if an announcement was made, almost the very first thing is going to be: What do they look like? Can we see a picture? Where do they come from? What’s their home look like? We’re not going to get into these deeper issues before we’ve done the very basic tabloid stuff. PH: I agree with Steve, too. I want to go on record as saying I will not buy into the anger, everybody-shooting-each-other ridiculous scenario. [laughs] I think that people are intelligent, and I think there is a third thing might happen: Some people maybe don’t care. Because, I have spoken to a group of people that just don’t give a darn, whether it’s announced, it’s not announced. It’s not going to affect their reality. So, it’s not just rejoicing or let’s run in the street and kill people and be angry. There’s a whole level of people that have told me: Frankly, Paola, it doesn’t affect me at all. And we have to remember those people. NP: Well, Paola, this probably isn’t the right thing to say to you, but maybe this is a good time to quote John Alexander. PH: Oh, yes. I know what you’re going to say now. [laughs] Yes. NP: Didn’t he say, you know, didn’t he end a presentation with all this talking about Disclosure and say: Well, Joe Blow, Joe Sixpack, whatever, his question is: “Does any of this mean I don’t have to go to work tomorrow?” KC: Actually, that’s the point. It does. It quite possibly could mean that. And that’s actually getting to the root of the matter. What you are talking about is a revolution in a paradigm. It may not mean blood in the streets, exactly, but it could quite possibly mean a rebellion in consciousness that results in people becoming co-creators of this world in a conscious way, such that they don’t go to work tomorrow, because they realize that one of the things that comes out of UFOs is free energy. It opens up that Pandora’s Box such that the possibilities... because the ETs come from a very advanced scientific future, and that much is obvious. They’re visiting us, they’re dealing with our government, the government’s been dealing with them. This is the other side of that story, is: What does it mean for us? And certainly, in the eyes of the Powers That Be, will Disclosure happen? Because, what it means is that it’s a relinquishing of power on a certain level. If they are not in complete control of this world, because they don’t have the highest technology, the highest intelligence [and] they’re not the man on top anymore. Okay? Then who’s on top? And that becomes the question. So, maybe, Joe Six-pack doesn’t realize that right off, but maybe he does. Maybe, on a subliminal level, he realizes the controllers are not in control, that the game has changed, that it’s thrown wide open, and that all things are suddenly possible, and that we can rework this thing, and we can also take down the... As John Lennon would say, that there are no countries anymore, that there are no borders anymore; and that we are humans – all of us; we are united -- all of us; that we are One People; and that these aliens -- who look like us -- may be our brothers and sisters and fathers and ancestors, whatever you want to say. It changes the entire paradigm in every way. It’s like the cards... where does the expansion end? And these are the possibilities. So, what I would say is that let’s talk about... Once you open the door of Disclosure, there is a sense in which Pandora’s Box will open, and there is no limit to the questions that can be asked. Not just the people -- like this in this room -will be asking those questions, but that average people will be. MS: I think that we need to kind of open or expand the vocabulary, because we’re kind of assuming that there’s going to be a transition from secrecy or denial to Disclosure. I think, actually, we’re missing an intermediate step, which is Openness. There’s going to be a transition from Denial to Openness; and, after we’ve have Openness for a few years, then we’ll have Disclosure. At the secret UN meetings that I mentioned, that occurred in February last year, one of the things that had been agreed upon by the national delegates that were attending, was that, beginning in 2009, they would begin a process of international openness on these issues. When you look at what’s been happening over this year, it’s like, well, what we’re seeing is not so much Disclosure; what we’re seeing is Openness. We’re seeing files being released. We’re seeing the media tackling these issues in an objective way. Now, I think, that is how you will prepare the groundwork for Disclosure, maybe in 2011, or 2012. So, I think we need to kind of accept that the people that are moving forward are very rational. They’re not going to try to panic people. They’re going to try to prepare people through a very-well-thought-out process of releasing more and more stuff, getting universities to deal with these issues in a systematic way... BR: There are a lot of researchers -- now turned to journalists -being allowed to do this work.

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MS: Exactly. So, I think, we’re going to have this process of Openness, maybe, for two years, three years, accelerating. And, then, eventually, we’re going to have Disclosure. What you’re saying, like at the end of this year, 2009, you know, by just releasing this Congressional Research Report, that’s not so much Disclosure, because they didn’t find the answers for Carter. But what they did was, they prepared him for: this is what might be going on. So there’s an Openness process at work here, and I think that is what we are now witnessing and are in the midst of. SB: Well, if they think they can stretch this out for three more years, my hat’s off to ’em -- but I’ll take the bet. Right? I mean, what was that phrase? If you want to make God laugh, tell Her your plans? Right? SEVERAL VOICES: Right. Yeah, right. SB: They’ve had 62 years to plan out something, right? So this idea: Okay, now we’ll go through enlight… you know; nah, I don’t think so. But, let me comment on something that Kerry said, because I’m going to get into this a little bit on Sunday. Without getting into the outcomes, predicting any outcomes, I do believe – and I’m speaking from a more nuts and bolts sense – I have this hunch that Disclosure media presence will trigger, very possibly, the greatest era of reform in history; going back to the Sumer, to the flood. In other words, it’s going to create a kind of cascading effect in which, because of the fact that the world’s attention will suddenly be focused pretty much in the same direction, through billions of eyes focusing in the same direction, then everything sort of is tossed up in the air, everything goes on the table suddenly – which happens once in a while... That the reformist movements that are out there – and there’s reformist movements everywhere, right? You just don’t hear about them, but they’re out there struggling along, working out of their basements – will suddenly be given life, and energy and money. And you’re going to see, literally, a systemic, I think, spectral, reform that will be staggering in its size and scope. Now, will it lead us to wonderful things? Will it all work out? Will it be like the French Revolution – you start off with a good idea and, the next thing you know, you’re lopping heads? I don’t know. But, I know that the opportunity is there. And, for me, that’s one of the reasons to keep going and do this. It’s not just: Oh, they’ll tell us the ETs are here. We have a world that has basically been shoving stuff under the rug for a couple of centuries – putting things in the closet, sticking them in the attic, not taking care of business, not dealing with what has to be done – and that was going to catch up with us. I think this is the trigger that suddenly says: Okay, we’ve got to clean out the basement; clean out the attic; we’ve got to cut the lawn; we’ve got to take care of business; we’ve got to clean up the secret empire; we’ve got to start filming the Bilderberg meetings; we’ve got to toss the Skull and Bones idiots off the Yale campus. We’ve got to do a lot of things. We need monetary reform. We need doctrinal reform in the Christian church, the Islamic faith. We’ve got to take care of stuff, because a lot of stuff is stupid, right? It’s ridiculous. But we’re locked up. After the last few thousand years, we’re just completely all locked up and can’t move. And so, you go to the Congress for some simple thing and the Congress is going: I can’t move. And you go to the Islamic faith and say: Look, we need a little change here. We’re going to have a world threat -- “We can’t act.” Catholic Church can’t change its policy on birth control. We can’t get anything done. All of a sudden – BOOM -- into this, comes the biggest event of all time. So, what happens after that is up to us. I just look at my job as trying to help people look and see and, maybe, be part of the post-Disclosure world. But we, hopefully, earned our right to be on stage; hopefully, we’ve earned the right to be heard -- but not necessarily so. The mainstream may come and say: Look, you guys have been bugging us about this for 20 years. Yeah, you were right. Now go away. We hate you. Right? [laughter] We’ve got PhDs from Harvard and Yale and I’ve been working with the government for 40 years and I really know all about this stuff. You-all go away. We may have to stand together hard, because the mainstream will want us to go away. We’re going to have to fight for our postDisclosure opportunities and positions, which is why I hope that the tensions and disagreements that exist -- particularly between the Exopolitical field and the old guard UFOlogical field -- don’t get worse. NP: Is this thing worth addressing here? SB: Oh yeah. Sure. PH: It could be worth addressing, but could I add something to that? I was told, by people in the Intelligence Community, when they tried to hand the phone over to Paul Hellyer, ex-Minister of Defence, because they were going to talk to him about keeping quiet. You know Paul Hellyer, ex-Minister of Defence? [He] read Corso’s book that this was a very serious situation we needed to deal with. We were in Hawaii and the phone was going right across me, and they said to me: Paola, you people do not know what you’re doing. We’ve got it handled. SB: Who said this to Paul? PH: The Intelligence Community. I don’t want to mention the names, but they were people that I know that are working on that side of the fence in the UFO question. SB: Right.

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PH: They are very well-known people and their connection with money, and so forth; and, when they tried to hand the phone to Paul Hellyer and I would let the phone go by, I said he’s on his honeymoon, you can’t talk to him – they said to me: Paola, you people are amateurs. You do not know what you’re talking about. We have it handled. Now, the words: we have it handled. And my brain was going: What do you have handled? [laughter] Who do you think you’re dealing with? SB: Yeah, they have it so well-handled that we have two fine Trade Center buildings in New York just standing tall there. You can go see them right now. PH: And so he never got the phone call that time. He got it later, because they wanted to make sure they told him to calm down and stop speaking. KC: Okay. But, I have a question here. I have a question that’s going to blow this thing wide open. BR: Uh-oh. KC: Actually, it’s two-pronged, but… one: What if Disclosure is the only thing that can happen prior to a real invasion scenario that’s been going on, while we’re here on the planet, the whole time? SB: Then it would be a... KC: What if... SB: And it... KC: What if the days are numbered for that scenario, that’s real – I’m positing it as real. And, what if there is only, as our recent witness is saying, there’s only about three years left on this planet before -- if we continue at the rate we’re going -- there’s no, I don’t know, oxygen; the whole thing is trashed? Now, what if we’re actually living a timeline that doesn’t just go out, stretching out there for all these different educational processes to take place, but we’ve actually reached a kind of End Game, in which humanity has no choice? That a choice has to be made, and some people have decided they’re going to make that choice for us? What if? SB: Well, Kerry, everybody has to die. I would rather die knowing the truth of this world, than die with a head full of government lies. BR: That’s a good [overtalk]. KC: Okay. I’m saying Disclosure happens; Disclosure is happening; it’s happening right here today -- but what I’m suggesting is something that hasn’t been talked about, and is never talked about, okay? It also has to do with their relationships with these ETs that we’re saying we know are here. But deals have been made. Deals in our name have been made, on the good side with the good guys and on the bad side with some of the bad guys – if the information that we at Camelot have been getting is true. So I’m just throwing this open to make it a little bit wider, a little bit more outrageous, and just see what… AW: Yeah. I thank you for widening our concept. I really think this is what Exopolitics is all about. We have a false-flag alien invasion, on the one hand, that the government... Because, I don’t know if people out there have seen my video sighting that I had at Lake Geneva, you know, one night, of this gigantic craft that was clearly, at least to me, being driven by not only our guys, but maybe a couple Reptilians at the helm, so to speak. I mean, what you have to deal with is that we may be reaching... according to the whistleblower that we started this whole conversation with, positing that Obama’s coming forward with this information. On top of it, that same guy, who is an insider with what he says, is a higher clearance than presidents, okay? His access is higher than the president today. And he is saying, number one: Prepare. Number two: You’ve got no idea what the real story is. That it’s not even being talked about -- even in our circles. We still haven’t gotten to the very bottom of the story. It involves things like race; like a whole, huge slew of robots, okay? It involves travel outside this Solar System that we’ve been involved in – we, the government. It involves so many different levels... to say: They’ve got it handled. Well, they just might. And, what they’ve got handled is not necessarily something in our favor. You know, I know we’re laughing and there’s possible, and there could be a lot of different levels. There’s a false-flag idea, but there are agendas at work here and there may be things that have not been dreamed of here in your philosophy. And I have to say that ‘Henry Deacon’ is sitting out there in the audience and, at any time now, [addressing Henry] because you have a certain degree of knowing, you’re welcome to join us here. But, what was drilled into ‘Henry Deacon’ from day one, once he joined these black projects, was: We are the wolves and they are the sheep. Okay? There’s a sensibility about... a perception about... an attitude that goes behind that. And that is not to do with being a member of the United States – it’s being a member of a secret government that’s worldwide and has an agenda. Okay? And is teaching their military employees a certain line of reasoning that has to do with: we have no choice. It’s on the Georgia Guidestones: We plan to make this Earth a better place and the way we’ve going to do that, guys, is to eliminate, whatever, two-thirds of the population? It’s a plan.

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To bring this back to the topic at hand, which is Disclosure, there’s a way that the Disclosure movement is the modern abolition movement by which slavery was abolished in the United States by a movement, an abolition movement, which started in the UK, which then went worldwide. I mean, we’re still feeling the effects of it. Fundamentally the Disclosure movement should be a movement to free us, the slaves, from our metaphysical slavery at being denied the true concept of what’s going on, and at stopping any plans for our projected demise. Because we are free and sovereign souls on this planet, in this dimension, and citizens of the Galaxy, and no other sovereign has the right to deny that to us. So the Disclosure movement really takes on, and has to take on, the moral force and breadth of the abolition movement that, in centuries past, abolished physical slavery. This is – we’re talking about consciousness slavery. So, I really support your bringing in that wider concept of discussion. SB: I second that in this regard, and I’ve been talking about this of late. I believe that – and Hegland talks about this, the Presidential candidate that split the TM movement – I believe that the suppression of reality from the citizens by the state – meaning: telling you that, say, the sun actually goes around the Earth and not the other way around – is in fact a violation of natural law. It violates a fundamental law. It’s beyond the law of the state. Now, what do I mean by that? I think you would agree that if any nation, any country, were to, say, pass a law in their legislature that you could murder anybody you wanted to – meaning, just kill somebody, it’s okay, it’s legal – that they would say: No, no. Whatever your constitution, whatever, that violates a fundamental natural law that’s beyond the law of man, in a sense, and you just don’t do that. Well, I think this is also true. So this violation of actually denying the reality to the people, there is no law that can justify it. There is no law that man could pass that can justify it. So, we’re really dealing with something at that transcendent level. And, as long as that is the case, it’s virtually a toxic poison that just seeps down and corrupts everything. Everything you can think of. So, it has to end. I don’t care what the what-ifs are; it doesn’t matter. It simply has to end. Right? And once it’s ended, once that denial of reality is ended, we will try to deal with what-ifs in the best way we can. VOICE FROM AUDIENCE: …[unclear, lots of echo] …the secret ... and join once together and ... bringing the values, the UFO issue... there’s no... the secret... [continues, unclear] Why are the governments keeping secrets from the public? BR: This is a voice from the audience. Could you tell us who you are, because you’re not on camera? VOICE: What? KC: I think you have to repeat the question. VOICE: [lots of echo, barely audible] ... It’s not easy. In every country in the world they are going to... [camera pans to man holding paper sign up to panel] KC: Stop the secrecy. BR: Top secret. Oh, I see the... that’s very nice. VOICE: There are people, Alex Jones’s people and my people have a lot of help [unclear] and all are focused on the secrets. So that we have to go to the point in which, denying, the states to keep secrets from the public. In this moment we can join all the different movements that are fighting in its own fight and we can all together, the world united in demonstration. That is what I ask of you all, to help make a world demonstration in which the public, the humankind, denies to the governments to keep secrets from them.... [continues, unclear, lots of echo] and then there is disparity … all… BR: Yeah. For the sake of the camera, please tell us who you are. Nobody knows who you are. VOICE: [unclear] … I wrote a book called Extraterrestrial … and all the information they gave to me. I am a sort of you, but now say in Spanish the thing that… you have to hear us also, because it’s not, as you said, something from the USA. You are not going to win this fight alone. BR: Absolutely. SB: That’s why we’re here. VOICE: We’re going to win, all of us together, all of humankind and the thing... [unclear] there are people who don’t care about the rest of us. PH: Who don’t care? [laughs] VOICE: They don’t care. But, how can we approach to them? Because we are in a higher position, we have to approach to them, not them to us. So we go to Alex Jones and say: OK, what we have in common -- what secrets? Do the governments have the right to keep secrets from the public? [unclear] Above all, this is the reasoning for me: If something is good, why keep it secret? You only have secrets when it’s bad, no? If it’s good, be transparent, be clear, no? BR: Okay, now… KC: That was my point. And now Michael has to leave. BR: Michael has to leave. We invite you to have a last word. I don’t think it’s going to be the last word, but it’s an opportunity for you to say your piece here before you have to leave, but I

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have the feeling that this conversation is going to continue for a while. SB: What, you’ve got an audience with the king, by any chance, Michael? BR: There are a lot of people listening on audio now. MS: Well, I want to emphasize again that, as far as the United States is concerned, because it is the most powerful nation when it comes to managing the extraterrestrial secrets, that there has been a fundamental struggle between... On the one hand, trans-national organizations and actors – and the neoconservative agenda during the Bush administration was one of the focal points of that – and the constitutional forces in the United States government, the so-called White Hats; people associated the Navy and the other kind of loyal constitutional forces. Now, 9/11 – September 11, 2001 – was, I believe, the first in a series of false-flag attacks which would culminate in something along the lines of an alien invasion. I think it was the first of many and the reason it did not occur was that the constitutional forces were strong enough to prevent the trans-nationalists from moving forward with this sequence of false-flag events that would culminate in a nuclear attack in the United States, and then an eventual false-flag attack, which would create a chaos around the world. With the Obama administration, I think, what we have now is that there’s an ascendancy of the constitutional forces. So, I am far more optimistic that the transition to Disclosure is going to be much more harmonious, much more thought-out in a way where the public is properly prepared, so that, when the truth finally does emerge – whether it’s at the end of this year, or in three years’ time – that it will be done in a way where we can all be confident that there’s not going to be two-thirds of the population wiped out in some kind of cataclysmic attacks that are false-flag operations, but a much more positive and harmonious transition. So I’ll leave on that very optimistic note. BR: Thank you, sir. Well done. Brian O’Leary... BO’L: I was going to say that I live in Ecuador and the government of Ecuador, well, actually, the people of Ecuador, just ratified a new constitution. And in the constitution – and this is unprecedented, as far as I know – is that Nature has rights. And although it hasn’t been enforced yet, it’s going to natural law. Natural law is becoming more and more of an inspired common denominator of the world community and that’s really good news, because the opposite extreme is the agenda of Black Ops. So, I think places like Ecuador could become a kind of a world focus of what alternatives can happen. Now, the government of Ecuador is also kicking out the U.S. Air Force, the Manta Air Force Base, at the end of this year. And these are all positive signs that the imperial powers, the secrecy, the trashing of the Earth – that it is beginning to unravel. And so natural law, I think, needs to kind of dictate the future agenda. SB: This gentleman made a comment I want to comment on very quickly. He pointed at something, which is very important. There are right now around the world and in the United States, many, many activist movements trying to get at fundamental government lies of some kind or another -- institutional lies. But, by and large, none of these movements are getting anywhere. The secrecy reform is one of the least funded of all, but they’re all passionate and they want to get forward. The ET issue is, because of its incredible profoundness, has got the potential to break through. And, what happens if we break through that window, that door, these other reformist operations and secrecy movements are going to be able to go through and start working to resolve their issues. In other words, it’s like somebody breaking through the line and everyone follows behind them. That’s non-trivial. There are many, many lies, many governments out there that have created false realities and the people have a chance to, maybe, deal with that, finally. But, we will be kind of the point of the spear. If that’s the way it is -- that’s the way it is. But, I try to keep that in mind. I have tried to network with some of these other groups. Some are environment, some are in peace, landmines, whatever; but, because of the stigma of the UFO thing, they do not want to sit and break bread. I understand that. VOICE: It’s about how can we approach the [unclear]. SB: It’s not easy, but it’s getting better, you know, and we may start to see more collaboration. But, probably, we’ll see Disclosure first. Paola, once Disclosure comes, I think all of us are going to be very popular, and people will want to come and talk with us, and we can network, and we will hopefully help each other out. BR: That’d be nice. PH: I agree with what he says, as far as: I remember, during the Vietnam War, the Native Americans took over Wounded Knee. We had a lot of other groups come through and there was change in society over the Vietnam War question. If you remember, the Native Americans took up and did the same thing. However this is a discussion that is a part of what we’ve been talking about. There is a chapter in my new book, All of the Above, called Alien Racism. I have made so many mistakes, because I do not know who’s visiting us, I do not know where they come from, and I have no idea how they think, because they are alien. And one of the problems I’ve had with all of my stories is that I have interviewed people like Dr. Michael Wolf whose contact was a Gray, but it was a baby Gray cult; it was not The Gray.

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There are several types of Grays. That particular Gray was a positive Gray. It was from another place. And I have interviewed people who have been contacted by different races that appear ugly. And I do not think that we have the time to say this good, bad, evil, or whatever. I was very embarrassed by something that happened to me. I was talking about the Reptilians over dinner with some Native American people, and one of those women was a shaman. She was a medicine lady. And she said: How dare you? She said: Our ancestors were the Serpent People and they carried The Knowledge. She said: The Serpent People from our ancestors were not evil and they were very wise people. And she said to me: Quetzalcoatl is called “plumed serpent” in Mexico. A lot of cultures have these Serpent People. And we just called all Reptilians evil! I’d like to know how they would think of us. If we’re on another planet, they show some pictures of us and say: These people are evil, they are pedophile; they have sex with their children. These people are good, because these people are Tibetan; what they do is they are Tibetan monks and they meditate all day. These judgments on these races of aliens cannot be made just like this: good, bad, Reptilian, Gray, blondes – because, maybe, some of the blondes and some of the Pleiadians, who are coming here, are not exactly positive. So, in my chapter, I say: It is according to the agenda of the race – why they are here. Some of them are here, maybe, for their agenda -- like hybridization, because they need survival and they’re using our egg and sperm, because they need to survive. For them, that’s good. For us, that’s not so good; they didn’t ask permission. But, you know, let’s look at this before we go and brand Reptilians, Blondes, and Nordics are good… Colonel Corso told me there were 57 different races of aliens; and, just from Paola, I have to say aliens, for me, are alien. I have no idea how they think. I don’t have any idea why they’re here, and I’m not going to take the government’s testimony as gospel as to why these people are here. And, when we get as angry as I’ve heard us be, let’s remember that there’re whole groups that are here that are spiritual lightbeings. They’re interdimensional. They are also inspiring us. They’re spiritual light-beings that are not... I don’t know why we call them aliens. They’re just beings. They’re souls from other places. Why do we brand those people aliens? They’re giving us inspiration every day to go and do things; and, whether they appear as light, whether they appear as people, whether they appear whatever... To me, I still think we need to be careful about alien racism and putting that out there, because people are going to be afraid. And then I had an Indian shaman lady saying: Watch what you say about the Serpent People. BR: I’d like to support that with a piece of second-hand testimony that I can report from Barbara Lamb, who’s done a lot of work with Experiencers. I met her at the Conscious Life Expo in Los Angeles this February. She told me a personal story about how a Reptilian had appeared in her room, out of nowhere, had held her hand and looked her in the eye for two minutes, and communicated with her that he had been bred to communicate with certain people, to spread the message that they are not all bad. And that’s very, very interesting to me. PH: We have to be careful, because the UFO community is putting everything in boxes: this is the way it is and this is the way it is and this is... BR: Because it’s convenient for us to... PH: Well, we’re human. That’s why we do that. BR: That’s right. We’re always judging and we’re always putting things in boxes and the truth might be much more complicated than that. PH: I think it’s very complicated. KC: Well, it is very complex, and thank you, Paola. I believe that that is something, that, actually, in the community – if you want to use this in a very loose sense – that there are all different kinds of beings, that that’s really what we’re talking about, and widening the perception of the kinds of beings and the multidimensional nature of all of life, us included. That’s what we’re here to talk about. That’s what we’re opening the doors to. What happens is -- you’re right, when it gets to sovereignty, that’s one of the most important aspects of what we’re talking about here. What we’re talking about here is a transition that we’re going through, humanity and the planet. In fact, possibly the Galaxy; galaxies, are all in a state of evolution, ETs included, okay? ETs, interdimensionals, you name it; they’re all spirits inhabiting bodies, inhabiting light bodies, if you will. It just depends. We’re all spirit. So, at any rate, what Brian’s saying is also valid. In other words, this is Gaia, this Earth, and we need to actually protect her, allow her to thrive. And this has been held in slavery for too long. Okay? This being, this whole being we call the Earth, is a being. So, actually, you know, it is a movement towards freedom, of breaking the chains. It gets that wide, but it’s also a question to be asked of every, you know, visiting... even people that are here, even subterranean beings. We’re talking about: Is the Earth and is humanity allowed sovereignty? Are we each individually allowed sovereignty to grow and thrive to the best ability that we have to do so? BR: And can we assure [or show?] that we’re capable of it?

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KC: We’re doing so at the moment, I would surmise. But, you know, what we’re saying here is, basically, that some of these beings are coming here with an agenda, just like some of the controllers, so-called, whatever you want to term these people. They are not alien; they are us. Okay? Nonetheless they have chosen to control. And we have given them that ability to control. We’re taking it back, slowly, but surely. That’s what it’s all about, is taking back the control of our own sovereignty and saying: No! Enough! You won’t make decisions for us. We are co-creators and we’re going to do this together. But, not to also allow more advanced races to take us over, to determine our path, etcetera, etcetera. So, there are many levels to this Exopolitical view of how we’re dealing with this future that we’re fast approaching. BR: I was going to say that I’m thinking that we need to wrap this quite soon, because, otherwise, we won’t have anything to talk about this weekend. [laughter] And this is the start of a conversation, rather than the finish of one. I was going to propose that Alfred, as the founder of the term Exopolitics, might usefully be able to make a little final summation, if such a thing is possible, and then we can continue this conversation elsewhere and else-when. AW: Well, I will attempt one, but I will be very humble. [laughs] I think that what we have touched in this conversation really is a reflection of the multi-dimensionality, as you were saying, of the multiverse reality in which we live. And Exopolitics as a social science – the science of relations between our human civilization and other intelligent, highly intelligent, civilizations in the multiverse – can serve as an interface. We were all able to encapsulate and hold this entire conversation within the discipline of Exopolitics, as we would have within the discipline of Anthropology, were we studying some tribe that we had discovered on an island. So I want to thank you for advancing the discipline in this conversation and we look forward to many more in its evolution. BR: Steve...? SB: I don’t want to... not wrap it – but, rather, I want to put something on the record, since we’re on camera that I think is important. I should have done it sooner. Forgive me. Namely this: that the umbrella of Exopolitics allows us to engage a much broader, almost infinite, array of issues of past, present, and future without question, and that’s where I want to be. But, I think, we must remember that all of us stand on the shoulders of a group of individuals who plowed through this issue, starting in the ’40s, from primarily a pure research kind of forensic approach – scientific – creating organizations, and doing research and sighting reports and what have you. And they had to do this during the heart of the truth embargo, when the government was absolutely opposed in every way to this going forward. It was brutal. It was difficult. And many of them haven’t live to see this kind of discussion. We just lost such a person recently, just a few days ago – Richard Hall, legendary researcher – died. Others are going to die. As it happens – and this is not surprising; it’s happened before – as we transition from the UFO Research Era to the Exopolitical Era, very serious tensions have developed between these oldguard researchers and the Exopolitical activists and what have you. They’re not foundless. There are reasons for it and they need to be appreciated and they’re growing. I wanted to be clear that I, for one, know that, without them, I couldn’t be doing what I’m doing, and I have every intention as this goes forward... I’ve been graced with the opportunity to do lots of media and get out there. Okay, fine. But as this thing culminates and we move past Disclosure, I have every intention to do everything I can to ensure that these researchers, these founding fathers and mothers of UFOlogy, are given the credit that they deserve. That they are able to participate in the post-Disclosure world and not be shut out by a bunch of smart-ass scientists from Harvard that just got religion; that they will be respected and honored. This is important and I want to put that on the record. Thank you. BR: Hear, hear! Wonderful. That’s right. We’re standing on the shoulders of giants here. There are a lot of very brave men. One of the names that immediately occurred to me when you say that, of course, is Donald Kehoe... PH: Yes, [unclear]? SB: Sure. BR: ...and his whole... They were heroes all. SB: Kehoe. Hynek. PH: McDonald. SB: McDonald. But there’re a lot of them. Berliner and, ah... BR: It’s a huge list. BS: Oh God, I’m sorry. The name escapes me. But there are plenty still alive. AW: Yeah. Dr. John Mack. PH: John Mack. Yeah. BR: Absolutely. We’ve got a bunch of them that we pay tribute to on the Camelot site, and there are many more who we may never even know about. It’s a team effort, and many of these people who have gone before us... and I hope that not too many will have to go after us, because, with a little bit of luck, we might be able to wrap this thing up, between us. There are people all over the world, many different countries, many nationalities, people of different experience, different color.

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We’re all working together on this, because this is about the human race, and this is a thing that we have to work together on. SB: I wish there was a way to reconcile, that we all get together on the same page, but, I think, it’s just the nature of things that that’s not probably going to happen. But, it won’t hurt if, when we have the opportunity, to acknowledge them the best we can. I think that will help, and we’ll see where things go. VOICE: …In relation to many of my people in this conference, because there are not... [unclear] ... there is an issue of getting my people. I think that Gary McKinnon… SB: I don’t know the person. PH: Gary McKinnon. SB: Oh, Gary McKinnon. [many voices overlapping] VOICE: …[unclear] we have to [unclear] ... somebody to say something. SB: You think somebody’s going to mention the Gary McKinnon case? KC: Well, Gary McKinnon has been getting... VOICE: [unclear] SB: …[unclear] agreement, probably. KC: Well, we interviewed Gary McKinnon, and you certainly are welcome to view his video on our website. He’s getting a lot of attention in the UK. He’s got a lot of well-known musicians now backing him. There have been fairly successful moves to keep him from being extradited from the UK to the US to stand trial. Whether or not that will ultimately be successful, I think there is a final ruling coming through, actually in the next week or two, I was told. So I don’t know where that’s going to go. They’ve put through a number of different defenses for Gary. We at Camelot were consulting behind the scenes on that. However, I have to say that Gary McKinnon and his group decided, in terms of defending him, not to raise the real card that he holds, which is that he found evidence of fleet-to-fleet transfers and off-planet, non-terrestrial officers that indicated what we know of as the secret space program, and therefore they decided not to use that in his defense. Okay? That was pretty much pushed to the side. They are using another defense that we at Camelot did not recommend, but we wish him the absolute best. He’s a brilliant musician, I have to say. If you haven’t heard his music, I encourage you to do so. But, on top of that, he’s also a brilliant mind, and he did come across some very interesting information when he did his hacking; and he was very naïve. He was incredibly brilliant at the same time as being naïve. But, he’s being used as a scapegoat by the Powers That Be. What he could have done was to actually take this issue that we’re all discussing right here and now into a courtroom, which might have resulted in Disclosure on a whole different level; but, at the moment, it doesn’t appear that’s going to happen. Okay? Now, whether he will be saved because he went this other route, I don’t know. But in answer to your question, that’s the story with Gary McKinnon. VOICE: Well, I want to ask to make a mention of him and this issue. SB: I’m sure David Griffin is going to mention him. He is Exopolitics United Kingdom. I think he’s speaking on Sunday. VOICE: Because I think we have to take him as our hero and as the proof. Why is he still in jail if he didn’t find anything? So, … show a reference to him and the government… [unclear] BR: We can do that, and we just have. VOICE: [unclear, overtalk] KC: Well, we’re going out over the airways. BR: We just have. VOICE: [unclear] Man has the right as [unclear] his own self, the right of humankind of knowing these secrets. BR: Yes. KC: That’s right. BR: But he’s one of many heroes. This is the point. [voice continues to overtalk] BR/KC: Yes. Yeah. VOICE: …[unclear] meet all together in two hours … make a short statement … and there is going to be a lot of press conference here [unclear] KC: We’re happy to raise it tomorrow in the press conference. We’re happy to do this. We’ll raise the Gary McKinnon story. SB: Well, the press can raise it. Let them ask. VOICE: Don’t’ talk by yourself, as media, as a group, okay? Let’s meet all together and say we are going to say something about Gary McKinnon, and he represents humankind and wants to know this kind of secret.

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KC: Desire to know the truth. SB: Gary McKinnon is not going to be extradited. The Obama administration has no desire to do that. The reason they haven’t done anything immediately is because it would look awkward. It’s like a matter of priority of issues and so... but it’s inconceivable to me that it will happen. But, of course, he has gone through a lot; but, that said, I, for one, do not support or encourage anybody to hack into government computers for any reason. Right? It is a form of civil disobedience. If you do it, be prepared to pay the price. VOICE: Why not? They hack into ours. [laughter] SB: And they should pay the price for that, right? VOICE: …[continues overlapping] talking / unclear / other voices KC: It’s a revolution in consciousness. BO’L: Yes. BR: Wonderful. SB: The Truth! What a concept! BO’L: It’ll set us free; but, first, it’ll piss us off. KC: [laughs] SB: Right. Okay. Thanks, Kerry. I appreciate it very much. KC: Okay, thank you. Thank you very, very much. AW: Thank you so much. SB: No, no. I’m just saying… BR: Thank you, Alfred. [voices overlapping / unclear] [crosstalk, music fades in] SB: I don’t want him to be harmed. BR: Good job. BR: Steve is saying that... SB: ...out in the world... you guys are the hardest-working people in the field. KC: But, what we are all about here is getting to the truth. That’s what this discussion has been about. We are claiming our right to know the secrets and there is a reason for that. So, with that, is there anyone else that wants to say a closing statement or a suggestion or... BR: I want Brian to say the last word. BO’L: Well, just a quick remark and that is that almost everything that applies to ET/UFO/Disclosure also applies to free energy. It’s amazing how parallel and similar they are. It’s also amazing how many heroes in the free energy field – who’ve been assassinated, who’ve been threatened. Now, it’s time for us all to stand and be counted, and to create the revolution – peaceful revolution.

KC: Let’s see, there’s a saying, and somebody, if I get the quote wrong, can correct me: In a time of deceit, acting in defense of the truth is a revolutionary act. BR: Telling the truth is a revolutionary act -- that was George Orwell. KC: And I have to say that that, in my opinion, what Gary McKinnon has done, and that, if we go fast-forward to the future, let’s say, the year 2050, when we all know the truth, Gary McKinnon will be in the forefront as one of the people that we have to thank as a revolutionary for being a hacker. That’s my opinion of it, okay? And I understand that, Steve, you have a different view.

**Transcript provided by the hard-working volunteer members of the Divine Cosmos/ Project Camelot Transcription Team. All the transcripts that you find on both sites have been provided by the Transcription Team for the last several years. We are like ants: we may be hidden, but we create clean transcripts for your enjoyment and pondering.**

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Project Camelot: Bob Dean At The Exopolitics Summit Press Conference: Introduction To Press Transcript
Barcelona, Spain, 24 July 2009
But in 1963 I received an assignment to the Supreme Headquarters Allied Powers in Europe. At that time this was considered to be a choice and plumb assignment in the United States Army. I was excited about the assignment. I took my wife and my children to Paris, France. My children went to high school in Paris and learned to speak fluent French. And I was given an assignment to the Supreme Headquarters Operations Center, a place we called ‘SHOC’. I’m not trying to make a joke, but when I arrived, I was shocked at what I learned. It appeared that an event occurred on the early morning of the second of February, 1961, that almost started World War III. Large numbers of circular craft of some kind flew over Central Europe out of the Soviet sector toward the west over NATO and Allied lines. These objects were circular, metallic, flying at a very high altitude, and flying at a very high rate of speed and they flew in formation very obviously under intelligent control. They would generally fly to the west and they would turn north over the English Channel, the southern coast of England and disappear from NATO radar over the Norwegian seas. In the early morning of February ’61, World War III almost began. The Soviets went on red alert. All NATO forces went on red alert. Our fingers were poised on the triggers and over those red buttons. And the whole thing was over in about 20 minutes. A British Air Marshal by the name of Sir Thomas Pike decided to initiate a study to find out what the hell was going on here. They conducted a three-year study. I arrived in the summer of 1963 and learned that it was underway, and they published the study in 1964. All of us who worked in the war room and all of us who had a Cosmic Top Secret clearance were shocked and stunned by what we read. They concluded that the human race and the planet Earth had been under some kind of observation and study for a very long time. They -- whoever they were -- were deeply interested in us and had been obviously observing us and studying us for a tremendous amount of time, hundreds --if not thousands -- of years. The study concluded that if they had been hostile or malevolent, there was absolutely nothing we could do. The study, titled An Assessment, also concluded that some kind of a program was underway. Even today we still don’t know what that program is all about. Ladies and Gentlemen, that was the beginning for me. I spent the last 45 years trying to determine what this is all about and what does it mean. And I have concluded that this, indeed, is the greatest story in human history. We are and have been members

[Ed note: Normally the transcripts that had any parts in them that had been difficult for the transcribers to hear were put in “audibles” in square brackets in red for Bill Ryan to attend to, fix, then he’d post the transcript; however, due to unexpected interruptions in the normal working process in Project Camelot, this normal process was not able to proceed forward, so the audibles were left in the square brackets.] BOB DEAN (BD): Ladies and gentlemen, let me express my deep appreciation for your attendance here this afternoon. It’s gratifying to me to see such a turnout from the Spanish media. In my country you have to grab the media by the throat and drag them kicking and screaming to pay attention to this subject. So I’m grateful and have much gratitude for your attendance here this afternoon. Let me apologize to the beautiful translator / interpreter to my right. [laughter] I am notorious for not following script or instructions. So I will deviate somewhat from my prepared comments this afternoon, and I will tell you essentially what I have seen, and what I have learned, and what I have concluded about what I consider to be the greatest story in the history of the human race. It is not merely the study of the history of the human race or in the history of the human race. It is really essentially the study, the conclusion of the history of the human race. Ladies and gentlemen, we are not alone and we have never been alone. [applause] We have had a history of an intimate interrelationship with advanced extraterrestrial intelligence from the beginning of our human history. I spent 27 years on active duty in the United States Army. I led combat troops in Korea in 1951 in one of the bloodiest wars we’ve ever fought. I gathered intelligence in Southeast Asia in Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos in 1970.

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of, apparently, an intergalactic culture and civilization and a community of intelligent life. We are dealing with four particularly different races. They are all humanoid, but one group is totally human just as we are. The conclusions are that we are hybrids -- we humans are hybrids. Our relationship with them is one of a fellowship and a brotherhood. And they are assisting us and trying to come to terms with who we are and why we are here. The biggest question, basically, is: Where are we going? Do we have a future as a species and a race? And I will tell you bluntly and honestly that I believe that our destiny is in the stars. [applause] Now we talk about... forgive me for deviating again here sweetheart, I am so sorry. Just last week my country celebrated 40 years of anniversary of the landing of the Apollo on the Moon. They take great pride in saying: Look what we did. Isn’t this neat? We went to the Moon! But what they didn’t tell the American public is that NASA purposely erased 40 rolls of film about the Apollo landings. They purposely erased 40 rolls of film on the Apollo landings and would not release this information to the American people. The big secret was what we found when we got on the Moon. We found overwhelming evidence that we were not alone. They followed us all the way to the Moon. They followed us around the Moon. They followed us all the way home. And they watched every move we made while we were on the Moon. All of this was filmed. That explains to you why those 40 rolls of film were erased. But not all of those pictures disappeared. There were some honest people working in NASA back in those days, and some of those pictures survived. And I have brought a considerable number of photographs of those NASA pictures with me to this conference and I am going to share them tomorrow night. [applause] I must tell you they are shocking; they are stunning, and to some people, they will be literally overwhelming. But I will say to you as I will say to the American people and have for the last 20 years: Damn it! You have a right to the truth! And to use a military term: You have a need for the truth. And I want to thank you and Good Evening.

**Transcript provided by the hard-working volunteer members of the Divine Cosmos/ Project Camelot Transcription Team. All the transcripts that you find on both sites have been provided by the Transcription Team for the last several years. We are like ants: we may be hidden, but we create clean transcripts for your enjoyment and pondering.**

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Project Camelot: Bob Dean - Barcelona Exopolitics Summit Transcript
25 July 2009
But here I am in Barcelona in 2009 with some of the most delightful people I have ever met. And looking back, I find that the journey was worth the effort; it was worth the pain; it was worth the heartbreak. I’m delighted to be here and I’m delighted to see all of you out there. This is such an encouragement to me that people are beginning to demand the truth. They know they have been lied to from the very beginning, and they want to know. And I’m going to -- here, this afternoon, hopefully -- contribute one small measure to helping you understand and helping you know. Most of my adult life, or most of the first part of my adult life, I was a professional soldier. I was in the army. I joined the army in 1950 to avoid the draft, ended up going to Officer’s Candidate School (OCS); and, so help me God, while I was going to OCS at Fort Riley, Kansas, the North Koreans invaded South Korea. The next thing I know I’m on the front lines in Korea being shot at by a bunch of pissed-off Chinese and North Koreans who tried to kill me -- and I had nothing against them; I didn’t want to kill them. Here I am, in 1951, leading combat troops in Korea in one of the bloodiest wars we have ever had, and the rest, I guess you could say, is history. I led combat troops in Korea in 1951; I spent 27 years on active duty and I also was involved in the war of Southeast Asia in 1970, where I was part of an organization that gathered intelligence in the jungles of Southeast Asia: South Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia. Let me tell, you some of those years were rather harrowing. The most harrowing experience I was to have was when I was assigned to Paris, France, in 1963, to what we considered in those days a plush assignment, a plumb assignment. I was able to go to Paris, France, take my family with me and my children went to high school in Paris and, as I said, this was a plumb assignment. I had no idea what I was to find when I got there. When I arrived in the summer of 1963, I arrived with a Top Secret clearance. When I arrived at the Supreme Headquarters Allied Powers in Europe, which was located at that time in a small town known as Rocquencourt, right outside of Paris, my security clearance was upgraded to Cosmic Top Secret, which was then -- and still is today -- the highest level of security classification that NATO has. I had to have a Cosmic Top Secret clearance to work in SHOC, Supreme Headquarters Operations Center: the war room. I was a Senior Master Sergeant at the time and, when I was assigned in SHOC, I was given the job of maintaining the Duty Roster. We worked on a 24-hour basis, day after day after day. And I was given the job of running the Duty Roster when I worked in SHOC.

Bob Dean (BD): I hope I can be heard. Will someone turn this on? Before I begin, I would like to say a couple of words of deep appreciation for the sponsors and people who have put this program together. I have been involved in speaking publicly all over the planet and all over the United States. I have been to conferences here, I have been to conferences there, and I know how terribly difficult it can be to put a program like this together. I have to say I have tremendous respect and admiration for the people who have done this. Most of all, I respect their courage for dealing with a subject like this where most of the elite leadership and the power groups of the world want this subject to go away. And these courageous young men who have put this together are brave and they deserve your respect and your admiration, and I want to say I thank you because I know what you’ve been through. [applause] Now, I must explain something else to you. I never read from a script. I don’t have a prepared script to follow. I get up on a stage and I talk to people like yourselves and I kind of wing it. I have so much material and I have such a problem of keeping it under the allotted time that I’ve been given. I have come today prepared to speak to you for three hours. I am only allowed one hour and fifteen minutes. So something is going to have to give. But bear with me, I’ll do the damndest job I can. It’s important that you see the photographs of the NASA pictures that I have brought with me. Now, my journey began 45 years ago. I began a journey that, if I had known then what I know now, if I had known the pain, the anguish, the heartbreak that I was going to experience over these 45 years, I might not have started that journey at all.

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Back in those days -- let me tell you, the war rooms were somewhat primitive. You’ve seen pictures today; I’m sure, of the control centers of the most major installations like S.A.C. [Strategic Air Command] in Colorado Springs. Everything is electronic. Everything is demonstrated on the wall extensions just like this mural that’s up here. Back in those days we had teletype; we had field telephones and, if we wanted something on display, we had to go up and take a pin and put it on a wall and show the controllers where this division was, where that Soviet regiment was and so on and so on; very primitive. When I arrived in the summer in 1963, I heard rumors about a study that was underway. Now, it interested me instantly, because the study was about UFOs and I was intrigued by that possibility. I was curious about UFOs and had no idea then what they represented. But we used to discuss this in SHOC, in the war room, that something was underway. What was it about? What happened? Well, it appears that on the morning of the 2nd of February 1961, World War III almost began. It was involved in the flyover of large numbers of circular metallic craft, flying in formation, very obviously under intelligent control. They would fly out of the Soviet sector in the Warsaw Pact toward the U.S. in formation at a high rate of speed and at a very high altitude. They would turn north over the English Channel over the southern coast of England and then they would disappear off of NATO radar over the Norwegian Sea. On that morning of the 2nd February 1961, World War III almost began. The Soviets went on red alert. The NATO forces went on red alert. Everybody was, you know … fingers on their triggers, thumbs poised above those red buttons. And World War III was just moments away. Within 20 minutes, it was all over. The objects flew, turned north and disappeared off of radar. It was all over. After this event occurred, a British Air Marshal, by the name of Sir Thomas Pike, who was a Deputy Supreme Allied Commander in Europe at that time; he was the deputy to my boss, General Lyman Lemnitzer, an American Four-Star General who was known as SACEUR, Supreme Allied Commander of Europe. Air Marshal Pike says: I’ve had enough of this. These objects had been showing up regularly, from time to time. As I said, they almost triggered a war.Air Marshal Pike said: We are going to come to terms and find out what the hell is going on here. I want to know. So he began a study. He initiated a study in SHAPE [Supreme Headquarters Allied Powers Europe] headquarters that was to last for three years. They published it and issued it in the summer of 1964 while I was there working in the war room. They titled it An Assessment: An Evaluation of a Possible Military Threat to Allied Forces in Europe. That’s all it had. Just a title head and front, couldn’t learn very much about that: An Assessment: An Evaluation of a Possible Military Threat to Allied Forces in Europe. I was working in the war room one early morning around 2:00 or 3:00 a.m. and, as I jokingly used to refer to it, the coffee was too black to drink. We read all the newspapers and magazines. Many of you have heard military life is about 99 percent boredom broken up with one percent of sheer terror. And that’s the way it used to be and that’s the way it probably is even today. I’m sitting there nodding off, and this American Air Force Full Colonel looked at me and he says: Wake up. He went over to the vault. The vault at SHOC was a walk-in safe. You opened the door and walked in and we kept classified documents in there. The colonel went over to the vault, the file, and pulled out this document and threw it on my desk and he says: Read that; that’ll wake you up. Ladies and gentlemen, my life changed. I opened the first page and I couldn’t put it down. I read and read and read. And I read it every time I was on duty in the war room. I was shocked; I was stunned by the implications of what I read in that study. As I said, my life has never been ever quite the same. The study, briefly -- and I have to briefly lay this out; I could talk for two hours about this -- but the study simply concluded this: Is there a threat to Allied Forces in Europe? Apparently not. They concluded that the planet Earth and the human race had been under some kind of survey or observation going on for hundreds, if not thousands, of years. They concluded, in 1964, that there were at least four different groups coming here, observing us, surveying us, analyzing us, closely watching us, what we were up to, what we were doing. They concluded that it did not appear to be a military threat involved, because their repeated demonstrations of incredibly advanced technology demonstrated to us that, if they had been hostile or malevolent, there was absolutely nothing we could do. If they were evil in their intent and they were hostile toward us, it would have been over a long time ago. So, the conclusion was there were four different groups involved. They have been coming here for a very, very long time. Apparently they were not malevolent or hostile. The question was: What the hell are they doing here? Why are they here and why are they interested in us? Well, we did not know in 1964 what their agenda or their motives were and I will tell you, honestly and frankly, that even today our authorities, our senior military, our national security people still don’t totally grasp what their motives are, what their agendas are. Well, this study in 1964 was simply a beginning for me. As I said, I was never really quite the same again. I jokingly say I’m usually a normal human being. And, after I read that study and launched on my 45 years of research, I lost all aspects of normality. I will be frank and tell you that over the years of my study, and the material that I have learned and gathered has brought about in me a complete destruction of my old world view, my old world paradigms. The world view that I held since I was a kid growing up -everything made sense, you know. I knew why I was here and I knew where I was going, what was taking place. After I spent 45 years on this, it all collapsed around my knees. That was the destructive aspect of my personality. That was the part that

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changed me completely from the kind of human being that I had been before into the kind of human being I am today. Ladies and gentlemen, I am totally alienated. [laughter] No pun intended. I said in a couple of interviews and previews and such: I have had -- for many, many years -- a love-hate relationship with the human race. One moment I love you. The next minute I hate your guts. One minute I adore you for the potential and the beauty of your music and your literature and your art and the next minute I’m saying: To hell with all of you. Blow them up. Let them blow themselves up. Clean the planet off. Get rid of them. That’s part of the struggle of having lost your old worldview when your whole paradigm collapses around your knees. So the man standing in front of you here today is literally a human wreck, as compared to what I used to be. But I feel pretty good about it. I lost all my old illusions. I opened my eyes and I saw the future. And I’m very happy about what I see. I have learned over the years from an infinite variety of sources here, there and everywhere. I didn’t retire from the army until 1976 and I kept my Top Secret clearance up until that moment. After I retired, I went to work for the Federal Emergency Management Agency and worked another 14 years for the U.S. government, where I had a Top Secret clearance. So I have a total of 41 years of federal service to the United States. But I’ve heard things over the years that literally still today stun me and shock me. I’ve learned that the human race is a hybrid race. I’ve learned that we are not merely alone; we have never been alone. We have had an intimate interrelationship with advanced extraterrestrial intelligence from the beginning of our history. And let me tell you that that intimate interrelationship is still going on. This one race, in particular, apparently reengineered us as a species about 200,000 years ago. What we are here today is what we call homo sapien sapiens -- you’re an engineered creature. Your genetics have been manipulated. You’re not the same as what you were and you are not the same as to what your children and grandchildren and great grandchildren will be in the next hundred years. The human race is going through a transition. It’s more than a transition. It’s what I have learned to be a transcendent transformation into a new race, into a new future. And your descendants will be as different from what you are here today as what you are from the old Australopithecus happened to be many years ago. That’s not something to be afraid of. It’s something to look forward to. You’re growing, you’re developing and you’re becoming a new race, a new species. Your grandchildren, your great-grandchildren and the descendents on in the next century or two have destiny in the stars. Don’t you doubt that for a minute. This species, this race, this troublesome bunch of monkeys, has a destiny in the stars and we are a part of this infinite universe filled with intelligent life. And we have been from the beginning but we are only now beginning to wake up and see it. Only now are we beginning to open our eyes and listen with our ears and look out there and say, all right where have I been? What am I now? Where am I going? As I said, your destiny is in the stars. Your generations to come, your descendants, your grandchildren and your greatgrandchildren will go out there and they will claim their rightful place. [applause] In a universe filled with intelligent life. Your place out there belongs to you. You have a right to that and you will claim it. There is so much to talk about. I’ve got some slides that I have to share with you. Would you gentlemen please put the first picture up on the screen? I’m being assisted by some very wonderful people back behind the scenes. I like to start with a shot like this. Pictures of this nature inspire me. It gives you a glimpse of the community you are a part of, a little glimpse of the stars out there, the nebulae. That’s where you’re from and that’s where you’re going home again to. That’s where you belong. Next picture, please. I love these; they’re so beautiful. I have some of these on my wall at home. They inspire me. I look at them and I have the sense of recognition that I’ve been there before and I know that I’m going back. But something happened in my country over the last few years that I am very, very troubled by. Just last week the United States celebrated the 40th anniversary of putting a man on the moon. They went through this whole whoop-dee-do of patting ourselves on the back. Gee, wasn’t that neat. Armstrong, Aldrin, you know, Collins up there in orbit, on the moon. Aren’t we great people, aren’t we magnificent? Look what we did. Well let me tell you about a couple of things they did that you may not have ever have heard about before. They took the few pictures they had; they had it all televised. Everybody -- Rock, Walter Cronkite and all of them were looking up. Golly, gee, isn’t this great, isn’t this neat? We’ve got a couple of guys on the moon. Ladies and gentlemen, my government, NASA, which many of us in the United States say stands for Never A Straight Answer, proceeded to erase 40 rolls of film of the Apollo Program -- the flight to the Moon, the flight around the Moon, the landings on the Moon, the walking of guys here and there. They erased, for Christ’s sake, 40 rolls of film of those events. Now we’re talking about several thousand individual frames that were taken that the so-called authorities determined that you did not have a right to see. Oh, they were disruptive, socially unacceptable, politically unacceptable. I’ve become furious. I’m a retired Command Sergeant Major. I was never famous for having a lot of patience. The idea, when I found out, that they had erased 40 rolls of film involving of several thousand individual shots about what really happened up there, I became so furious that, you know, I could have punched the director of NASA in the nose. I’m not the easiest man. I like to tell people that, like Henry Higgins in My Fair Lady, I have the milk of human kindness by the quart in every vein, so I really am a gentle man. But I have

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the capability, the potential of being rather dangerous and violent. And these lies and these cover-ups that I have learned about firsthand over the years literally infuriate me. And I hope it infuriates you, because these authorities, these nitwits in high positions of power who are proceeding to spend all the money the American people make for their own use, their own private programs, and then lie through their teeth about what the truth really is. Well, thanks to the idea that there were a few employees in NASA 40 years ago – even today there are some good people working there, decent people, honest people – I have some film that they preserved, that was not destroyed. Gentlemen, put up the next picture for me. [applause]

This is a NASA photo. This is Apollo 12, Apollo Systems 12, roll number 50, negative number 7348. They were flying over the Moon before they landed. They went into orbit around the moon, as many of you know. I’m sure this is no secret. They went into orbit around the Moon and, while they were there in orbit around the Moon, a number of anomalous artifacts began showing up showing interest in them. Next picture, please.

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Ah, this picture was taken by Neil Armstrong. While looking out of their window of their little craft, this object flew by. There is the moon in the background, of course, below the object that flew by the window of that little craft that they were riding in. Neil took the Hasselblad camera that he had, put it up to the window and snapped this picture. Next picture, please.

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Ah, NASA Apollo 12, roll 51, negative 8653, something like that. Now this is a good-sized object. This is several hundred feet in diameter that came up next to the Lander and flew along beside them for a time. The guys in the Apollo craft put their camera to the window and snapped the thing, and I’ve always jokingly said there were guys inside of this, taking pictures of the NASA craft. We were photographing them; they were photographing us. Next picture, please.

This appears to be what was shown above. It is not a UFO.

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Photo NASA Apollo Systems number 14 – Apollo 14 – roll 70, negative, what is it -- 9837 or 9887? This is the Lansberg crater on the moon. The guys in orbit above the Moon were particularly fascinated by Lansberg. They had been given a special assignment to take pictures of Lansberg, because the crater, which they designated as the Lansberg, had things going on in the crater that were very anomalous. There was construction going on. There were enormous facilities in the crater up there. So they were specifically designated and assigned to photograph Lansberg to see if they could figure out what the hell was going on down there in the crater on Lansberg. While they were looking at Lansberg, this object happened to express interest in them and flew by. Now this line is an artificial line that was drawn to show you the … it gave the direction that this object was going. This is a good-size object flying past the Apollo Lander.

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God, I’m so glad that some of these were saved. I still get angry, 40 rolls of film, for Christ’s sake, and they erased them. Anyhow, next picture, please.

This is the same photo of Lansberg, but the next negative, 9838 of this object here flying by. Next picture.

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Ah, now we’re getting into some nitty-gritty. I want to give you just a brief little bit of history here. Back in the early days of NASA and the Apollo programs, I got this picture from the Japanese space agency, the Japanese NASA. They have a tremendous program going over there in Japan. You know the Japanese are bright people. The Japanese space agency signed a contract with NASA years and years ago, to buy copies of every picture NASA took during the Apollo Program. And I’m sure the Japanese people paid a sizeable amount of money for this contract. And as the films were developed and the photos were made, they shipped them off to Japan and the Japanese had a tremendous reservoir of goods of regional NASA pictures. They bought them. They paid for them. So this photograph was released by the Japanese space agency; you can see the Japanese writing here.

This was taken by Apollo 13. Now, you’re all familiar, I’m sure, with Apollo 13. That was the aborted mission that was going to the moon to land and they had an accident on the way. They couldn’t land. They damned well barely got back. While they were on the way to the moon – here’s the moon – a number of things began happening. Some strange objects were appearing outside the windows of the spacecraft so the guys grabbed their Hasselblad cameras and start taking pictures. This photograph shows three different objects. This looks like a circular object with an enlarged dome on top. This is a smaller object with a circular kind of disc-shaped craft, but coming in from the right margin of this picture is this. Next picture, please.

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Here we are. This is a blowup of the positive in the photograph and here is a blowup of the negative of this object here. Ladies and gentlemen, this particular object is five miles long. I’m tempted to use the term big mother. No pun intended because it appears to be a mother ship. It’s gigantic, five miles long and here are these NASA guys are up there in this little cramped Apollo capsule, and they look out their window and they see something that is five miles long. It shakes them up a little bit. And when it got back to NASA, these pictures shook them up a hell of a lot. Next picture, please.

Ah, this is the next sequence. Here this large mother has moved into the middle of the frame and something else has come up over here, which has been estimated to be two miles long. But this really upset the guys. I have never been able to find out which one of the three Apollo members of the Apollo 13 group would admit to ever having taken these pictures. So, as you know, the Apollo astronauts were threatened with their lives, I kid you not. They were threatened seriously. They even threatened their families if they ever divulged any of the information that they knew. Next photo, please.

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Here we are. Here’s the big mother; here’s the other one two miles long. Here’s a picture of the positive; this is the negative. This mother is five miles long. Up here you can see what appear to be two circular objects, either arriving or departing from that particular big ship. I can almost understand why the authorities in NASA, why the authorities in the space program didn’t want this information to come out. They were frightened; they were stumped; they couldn’t deal with it themselves and they figured, if they couldn’t handle it, you couldn’t handle it. There would be social disruption; I believe is one of the terms they used. They would disturb the body politic; I believe the term they used. So they clamped the lid down on this and it is still down and it is going to stay down, I’m afraid, for some time yet, until people like yourselves and me and the rest of the people here on this stage, by pushing and prodding and chipping away at this lie and the secrecy, until, eventually, we will succeed. And, don’t you doubt that for a minute. [applause] Ah, now I’m in for another photograph which I think will shock you some. In 1980, NASA -- Never A Straight Answer -- launched the Voyager program to Saturn. They launched this little mechanical space ship filled with cameras, film and so on. They wanted to go to Saturn because something had been going on in the rings of Saturn, around the moons of Saturn that didn’t make a lot of sense. Some anomalous events were taking place in Saturn, near Saturn, at Saturn. So they launched the Voyager in 1980. The pictures they got back from Voyager was so stunning and so shocking that they just locked them up in a safe. Fortunately I met and developed a friendship with a retired NASA scientist by the name of Norman Bergrun. Norman Bergrun worked for NASA for about 30 years. He was a technician, a scientist on the Voyager Program to Saturn in 1980. Norman decided, after waiting a number of years for NASA and the authorities to be candid and honest and forthright and tell what they really found up at Saturn. And Norman got so frustrated he wrote a book. [Ed Note: The Ringmakers of Saturn]

I think he couldn’t publish in the United States; no American publisher would even touch it. Norman Bergrun had to go to Scotland, for God’s sake, to Aberdeen, to get his book published. And he published it. He did succeed. He got his book. It’s a piece of genius; it’s a beautiful piece of work, and the things that they photographed near Saturn appeared in print for the first time.

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This is the A-ring of Saturn. I think you’re all familiar with what Saturn looks like; it’s a beautiful planet. It’s a giant, but it’s got rings all around it. Well this is the A-ring and here’s the object that is self-luminous, obviously artificial, larger than our moon, that seems to be moving all around throughout the rings of Saturn and among the moons of Saturn; and Saturn’s got a couple dozen moons. This object here, as I said, larger than our moon, moving all around apparently under intelligent control in the rings of Saturn. Now, try for a moment, if you can, to imagine the kind of a technology that is capable of constructing something larger than our moon, that’s artificial, that moves around wherever it wishes to go that has probably got several thousand guys inside. That is shocking to some people. Next picture , please.

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Ah, this is the pièce de résistance, I guess, as the French say. Here you have another self-luminous, artificially constructed object, circular in shape, larger than our moon that is also moving here, there and everywhere throughout the rings of Saturn and among the moons of Saturn. You know, there has to be intelligence aboard.

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But this is the one that really blew the NASA people on the Voyager program out of the water. This object – this is an object guys – is 2000 miles long. It’s 400 miles in diameter, and it is an artificially constructed… Norman calls them an electromagnetic vehicle. He says they appear to be making the rings. This is one of the rings of Saturn; I think this is B-ring. Bergrun says he thought they were probably making the rings. I said: Norman, you have to consider the possibility they may be mining the rings. I think the rings are probably rich in nutrients, in minerals probably, and an incredibly advanced civilization I think would work out some system of mining those rings for all the minerals up there and utilizing them because space is filled with wealth; energies of all kinds. They never have to dig another hole in the ground like we do down here. Space is filled with energy. This is 2000 miles long and here on this end, there seems to be something like an exhaust or a flare of energy of some kind. It’s probably the result of engines of some type inside this thing; but, whatever it’s doing, it’s there, and it’s a recognition and representation of an advanced intelligence. And that’s one of the things that they don’t want you to know -- that we are confronting and relating with an intelligence that’s so far beyond our own; we’re looking at and talking about what’s known as a Type II civilization. Now, for your own interest -- I suspect most of you suspect this -- but you are all members of a zero-zero-type civilization. Beyond us, hopefully in a century or two, we might become a Type I. But this is a representation of the Type II civilization. Michio Kaku, the famous Japanese-American physicist in New York, has put out this concept about Type II, 0, I, II, III and IV of the kind of advanced cultures and civilizations we will probably meet out there. Well, we’ll probably meet out there; we have already met them. They’re here; they’re in our midst. [Ed note: The Type I through IV civilizations were first conceived by a Russian, Nikolai Kardashev] So, I brought about 15 or 20 of these pictures but I simply have no time; I don’t have the time to show them all. So I’ve shown a few here and I think I’ve piqued your curiosity. And, I think most of you are pretty bright people and you know you’ve been conned. You know you have been lied to. You’re not fools and I think you know who you are and why you’re here and where you’re going. [applause] Next photograph, please.

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Ah, this is a photograph taken by our Mariner space vehicle that we launched back a number of years ago. This is a picture of a facility on the surface of Mars. Now, this facility is located on the equator, and it’s on the surface, and those of us who have studied it and discussed it with each other, call it the airport. I said this is the parking lot (oval flat area). This is the administration building here (raised semi-circular area adjacent to the left of the oval); this is the main terminal here (structure directly behind the oval flat area), and I imagine it is a pretty busy facility, you know, with ships coming and going, but it’s not an airport. It is very likely a spaceport. It is on the surface and it’s on the equator of Mars. And if you are ever interested in launching a vehicle from a planet, you put it on the equator and you take advantage of the rotation of the planet to assist in the launching of your vehicle. You can take the momentum of the movement of the planet and it helps you get the thing off the ground. So, it’s exactly on the equator; it’s on the surface and it’s massive in size. So maybe that is the parking lot; I don’t know. Maybe that is the admin building, but there is something going on, on Mars, and I’ve been going back and forth with Richard Hoagland now for years, where Richard, who I know most of you are aware of, is convinced that Mars is covered with ruins. Well it is. But it is not just ruins. There are things going on, on that planet; on the surface, under the surface, continually so. Next picture, please.

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Ah, this was published in a German magazine but this is a Soviet photo. This is from their Phobos 2 spacecraft. This is a city under the surface of Mars that is the size of Chicago. Chicago is one of our biggest cities. Several million people live in Chicago. This is under the surface. You can see the city block … breakdown here portions of the neighborhoods here or whatever it is, but it is generating an enormous amount of heat. And they picked this up on the infrared when Phobos was going around the planet snapping pictures like crazy. The Soviets were pretty open about releasing some of their photos, contrary to the United States, where lying has become a fine art. Don’t get me started on my politicians. Phobos 2, the city on Mars, under the surface; you can see the streets, Broadway, First Avenue, whatever. People have said, well, who’s there? And I says: For God sake, it’s the Martians who are there! What a silly question to ask: Who’s there? [applause] Next photo, please.

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in the human spirit that will survive and will prevail. That will survive and prevail and there is a tiny brilliant light burning brightly in the heart of man that will not go out no matter how dark the world becomes. And in the years ahead when things are difficult and economic problems take place, there will still be disruptions, fear, hope; sadly enough, I’m afraid, there will still be blood in the streets, here, there, and everywhere. This coming out of adolescence is not an easy process. But then what do you do when you leap beyond adolescence? You reach adulthood. You grow up. And we’re growing up. Now, ladies and gentlemen, my journey is coming to an end, but for many of you out there your journey has just begun. And I want to show something to you before I leave the stage this afternoon. No matter how dark the world becomes, you can be sure, as Tolstoy said, there is a spark, there is a flame burning in your heart that will never go out no matter how dark the world becomes. And as my journey is coming to a close, and for some of you your journey is just beginning, I wanted to say to you in a term that I think is absolutely appropriate – you Spaniards have got some beautiful terms in your words – Vaya con Dios. [Ed. note: Go with God] [applause] She is our source of life on this planet. We needed her. We need her now. We wouldn’t be here if it were not for her. We talk about holy lands: Mecca, Jerusalem, here, there, everywhere. That is the holy land, people -- that beloved planet that we are on. Next picture, please. I spoke to you earlier about the fact that your grandchildren, great-grandchildren and so on -- the generations yet to come -have their destiny in the stars. And meantime, they will go out there and claim their rightful place in that infinite community of life. You can believe that and you can accept that with an assuredness and truth that goes beyond doubt. The destiny of this species and this race, this troublesome clan of monkeys, is in the stars and there is your destiny. I want you to understand that and have some hope, and don’t get depressed, because you are going to be undergoing some very difficult times in a few years left ahead. We are going through this transition, this transformation, this transcendent transformation into another species, into another race. And, if you remember your own adolescence, it was a painful time. The species, the race, is going through adolescence, but we’re not alone. We’re getting helpers. We have family out there that’s helping us and they’ve been helping us for a long time. They’ve been trying to encourage us and nourish us and trying to point the right direction for us to go, because we are a troublesome adolescent children, and we are going through that transformation. But my point is that there is no doubt about the inevitable destiny and truth of the human race. Now, I want to quote something for you if you’ll bear with me here. One of my favorite authors, poets, was a man I’ve admired for years: Count Leo Tolstoy. Tolstoy said that there is something Kerry Cassidy (KC): Everyone, I’m Kerry Cassidy, from Project Camelot. This is Henry Deacon. Henry has something he wants to say to Bob. Bob? This is Henry Deacon and we just want to say something here. This is Henry Deacon from Project Camelot for those of you who are familiar with our website. He’s here today, and he’s here at the conference. He has something he’d like to say, Bob, about Mars. I’ve never been to Spain before, but it’s one of my favorite places. I love you guys, and now I’m learning to love the Spaniards. In Italian I learned to say this and I will say it to you and I understand you know the meaning. In closing I want to say to you all: Keom [Ed. note: phoenetic!] [applause]

Now, I love this picture - Earth. I love this lady. Your ancestors and mine called her Gaia. She was feminine. She was a goddess. She was sacred. This beautiful lady has a respiratory system, she has a circulatory system and she has a heart.

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Henry Deacon (HD): I don’t have any words, but Bob has expressed everything that I would have said and I can confirm, because I’ve been working in Top Secret for 30 years at above Top Secret. We share a common background, but I just met him recently here and I can only say that: Yes, there’s life on Mars. There are bases on Mars. I’ve been there. [applause] BD: I didn’t even get started in telling you some of the things that I wanted to share this afternoon about who and what is on the moon, and Mars that Henry knows. HD: It’s a long story, as he said. There is not time to put it all together. Except that it’s a positive story, it’s not one of fear. He showed a picture of Mother Earth and it’s giving birth and there are birth pangs, but there is a child that is being born. And just forget about the fear, because that’s just really a temporary thing. KC: There she is. HD: So a friend of mine, Angelica, who no one knows, she calls this the emerald planet and it’s alive. Yes, it’s very much alive. We’re a part of that lithe life form and life spreads throughout this whole galaxy and the rest of our family is watching and waiting, and helping quietly behind the scenes. And I’ve been fortunate enough to be able to meet family that don’t just live here on terra for a long, long time even before I was in government work, so thank you. This is for Hoagland. [laughter] I attended my son’s retirement ceremony in Washington D.C. in November. My boy retired in November in Washington as a Full Captain in the United States Navy after 30 years of service. And while I was at this retirement party, the room was filled with Admirals and Generals and retired Commanders and Captains and so on. And we all had something cool in our hands and we were all moving around each other amiably and relaxed, you know. A retired navy scientist, whose name must remain untold, came up to me, nudged me and said: I know you. And I said: Yes, I’m Eric’s father. No, no, no., he said: I know you. You’re that notorious retired Command Sergeant Major with the big mouth. And I said: Yes, I’ll go with that. He said: I have to share something with you before the party is over. He said: I retired several years ago. My last job was at a government laboratory in Nevada a few miles from Las Vegas. I'm a plasma fusion physicist; that’s my expertise. That’s my training, my background, my occupation. Not being a scientist, I go: What? What? A plasma fusion physicist? He said: Yeah. I worked at this laboratory outside of Las Vegas. It’s not commonly known; it’s fairly secret. I worked five years with two guys who are not from here. They were from somewhere else. They were delightful people. They were scientists; they were working with us. They were assisting us. They were encouraging us and offering us ideas and possibilities and one thing and another in plasma fusion, which is infinite energy forever. And he says: I got to know them pretty well. He says: After a couple of years I went up to one of them and I said, “What do you guys really think of us human beings?” And this chap from somewhere said: "Well, since you’ve asked, we think you are – how did he word it? – A primitive, savage, and dangerous race." [laughter] KC: Thank you. Henry Deacon, for those of you who don’t know … BD: Ladies and gentlemen … am I still broadcasting here? Announcer: You’re still broadcasting. Audience: Tell us about Mars and the moon. Screw the breaks. [Kerry laughs] BD: I’m going to share a small story with you before I run out of time and I’m going to ask the gentlemen to please bear with me and give me just a few moments. [applause] And the scientist said: I had to agree with him. We are. We are a primitive, savage and dangerous race at the moment. The other chap was standing there who had been listening in. He was also from somewhere else. He said, “You also smell bad. [laughter] You humans stink. Nothing personal, mind you. We find that you don’t smell good.” And the scientist said: My first thought was, you know, I didn’t spray under my arms this morning, maybe. And they tried to explain that we humans have a psychic odor about us that they pick up and they find it terribly offensive. So it hit me between the eyes because, when I was a boy growing up,

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my grandmother used to say: If we could only see ourselves as others see us. It would help so much to develop our integrity and our character and all that, and this remark of my grandmother hit me that we were getting this so-called from the horse’s mouth from one of our extended family out there that: you’re primitive, savage and dangerous, but you also stink. I thought that was humorous and I shared that with Gogo and she said: Please include that in your presentation. So Gogo, bless your heart. I did that for you, you know. Goodnight everybody. [applause] HD: One sentence. It relates directly to what Bob has said. If you want contact, raise your spirit high. That’s what they want because they don’t want to mix with you if you’re savage beasts. It’s that simple. Just relax and be happy and work with each other. It’s a very simple message. BD: Thank you, Henry. HD: Thank you. [applause] KC: If you want to learn more about Henry Deacon, he's on our site. We have a lot of very long transcripts all about who he is, some of where he worked, and about Mars. We also have a video called Jumproom to Mars, in which David Wilcock, Bill Ryan and I discuss some of what he told us. We’re looking for, maybe a fifteen-minute, maybe half-hour tomorrow when Henry Deacon can address you and maybe tell you some of the details. Thank you. BD: Let me add one more sentence. [laughter] I must add this. I have traveled all over the planet and I have spoken to conferences all over the world and all over the United States. I have never been to a conference of this nature without there being at least one, and generally two, of the others in the audience. I want you all to think about that and look around you and know that in your midst... [laughter] you have good friends in high places, and they’re in your midst, and I’ve learned over the years to recognize them. HD: It’s your family. BD: Exactly, they’re family. But like Ingo Swann, I’ve developed the intuitive ability to spot them and recognize them and now I have them coming up to me at conferences, introducing themselves to me. There are no limits. Life is infinite and forever. God bless all of you, and I will tell you goodbye this time. [applause]

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Project Camelot: Futuretalk 5: Time for Truth Robert O. Dean, “Henry Deacon”, Dr. Alfred Webre
Barcelona, Spain, July 26, 2009
[Ed note: Normally the transcripts that had any parts in them that had been difficult for the transcribers to hear were put in “audibles” in square brackets in red for Bill Ryan to attend to, fix, then he’d post the transcript; however, due to unexpected interruptions in the normal working process in Project Camelot, this normal process was not able to proceed forward, so the audibles were left in the square brackets.] BILL RYAN (BR): This is Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy from Project Camelot and the date is... we can never get the date right! What’s the date? Kerry Cassidy (KC): The 26th. BR: The 26th of July, 2009. We’re at the Exopolitics Summit in Barcelona, Spain, and it’s our huge privilege personally, I must say... I want to ask Kerry in a moment to add to my introduction here. I’m going to introduce you, Alfred Webre, who’s never appeared on camera with us before. Alfred, it’s a privilege to be talking to you. ALFRED WEBRE (AW): Thank you. BR: I’ve been an admirer of yours for many years. Bob Dean, who has become a very close personal friend over the last couple of years, and he blames us entirely for his new-found popularity among all the young ladies in the world who are following Exopolitics. [Kerry laughs] BOB DEAN (BD): Shame on you. BR: It’s either you or Sean Connery. He’s just not available anymore. KC: All right, absolutely. BR: And all this kidding notwithstanding, we want to introduce somebody who we have presented to the world over the last three years, somebody who we also know and love dearly and who’s become a personal friend for even longer than Bob has. We’ve called him “Henry Deacon”, which seemed like a good idea at the time. I can’t even start to call him his real name, because I can’t even remember it, because, for me, he’s forever Henry. And Henry, it is entirely up to you whether you want to reveal your name again. ‘HENRY DEACON’ / ARTHUR NEUMANN (HD/AN): I’ll just say my name’s Arthur [Arthur Neumann]. BR: His name’s Arthur. Okay. Do you want to be—and this is a serious question—do you want to be known as Arthur or Art? HD/AN: Yeah, just Arthur, thank you. I’m tired of the Henry thing. BR: You’re tired of the Henry thing. Henry is dead. Long live Arthur. HD/AN: And Camelot. BR: And Camelot, exactly. It’s got something to do with King Arthur. KC: See, he stole your name. There you go... in this life. BR: I’m taking up valuable time here... because we’re under some limited time because Bob’s in demand, as I just said, and he’s got to rush off to his next appointment. One of the reasons why this is an important conversation is because yesterday afternoon at the Exopolitics Summit when Bob Dean was giving what I have put on our website and described as the most magnificent presentation at any UFO conference that I have ever heard, and I’ll say this again on record. It’s fabulous and you’ll be linked to that here. He was affirming the reality of bases on the Moon and Mars and showing us photographs that have never been shown before, as least as far as I’m aware, and it’s extremely important testimony. In a minute Bob will tell people, I’m quite sure, how he feels now that he is “under orders” from someone, somewhere, to speak out like he hasn’t spoken out before. We salute you for that. This is a very brave thing that you’re doing and it’s incredibly important. One of the things that links the three witnesses that we have here—we can call you witnesses—is something we could dub The Martian Connection, and with that, I’m going to hand over to Kerry because I’m talking too much already. Kerry... KC: Okay, well, just hold on one second. Let’s let Arthur... HD/AN: Just something really simple, before it slips my mind. I was just sitting in the audience during the conference and the cameraman was next to me and something popped up on the news that was on C-Span that I sent you, and I just wanted to remind about that. It was one of the astronauts was talking about this too. KC: Buzz Aldrin was talking about having what was a... HD/AN: A monolith on one of the moons of Mars.

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KC: A monolith on the Moon. HD/AN: And that just popped up in the last couple, three days. KC: On the Moon? HD/AN: No, on Phobos. KC: Oh. On Phobos, on the moon of Mars, right. Okay. And you knew that, right? HD/AN: Well, no, I wasn’t aware of that. No. KC: You weren’t? HD/AN: I didn’t... KC: But you told us about a monolith at one point. Do you recall that? HD/AN: Yes. I have. Uh huh. BR: That was a different monolith. They’re all over the place. KC: There you go. [laughs] HD/AN: I was hoping that you’d have a chance to see Arthur Clarke several years ago. KC: Oh, we wish! HD/AN: But, it just didn’t work out. BR: It didn’t work out. KC: Actually, it’s interesting you mention him because we just talked to another whistleblower this morning and he knew Arthur Clarke, also, so the two of you have something else in common. HD/AN: Mm hm. KC: Okay, so here we are. I’m Kerry Cassidy, this is Bill Ryan. We’re Project Camelot, for those of you that don’t know, and this is going to be just some open conversation. What we want to do is talk about the future, because what this really is, is what we call a Futuretalk. It is a conversation. That means Bill and I are going do something really annoying -- we’re going to talk from time to time, more than normal. But, we really want to hear from you guys. And what we’d like to talk about is your visions of what’s coming in the future, in the fairly-near future ideally, but you can go as far out as you’d like. And why don’t we start with Alfred Webre? AW: Oh, thank you. Well, I see the future as being shaped by two fundamental forces, perhaps three. One [is] a series of cosmic cycles which are sychronistically happening at the same time during solar cycle 24, which is 2009 to 2020, with the solar maximum being around 2013... 2012 to 2013. I was looking at a little child yesterday, a little girl, and seeing her eyes and I just... I could see the difference, you know, of the next generations. You can see it, even in someone, maybe, 20 years old, that they’re already very advanced, consciously advanced. BR: Arthur, when we met you for the first time, which is almost three years ago, I remember very, very clearly that this is one of the first things that you told us. You said the big issue right now is that everything is happening at once or just about to. HD/AN: Yes. BR: Can you delineate, can you list, what are those factors that are happening at once? Just so people know what we’re looking for. HD/AN: Well, the physical factors already just mentioned: The cyclic factors, very long cycles and short cycles; the effect of the star, the Sun, here... the spectral changes in the Sun, and things that I guess can’t be measured. I don’t know. For me, it’s an intuitive type of feeling and not a scientific thing. I’m not sure. BR: But, there are things that you have been briefed on. KC: Well, you’ve already talked the environment. You talked about what was planned in terms of viruses that were planted [Two], the Time Acceleration Matrix, which is an adaptation of the Mayan calendar, so that as we move into 2011, the black hole at the center of the Galaxy, which really mediates a lot of our thoughts, will be slipping over into Universal Consciousness, non-dualism. And finally, what some people call “Galactic genetic engineering.” That is the power of the black hole at the center of the Galaxy really kicking in to activate our DNA, ninety-seven percent of which, I understand, is not active now—they call it “junk”. BD: They call it junk, but it isn’t junk. AW: Right, exactly. So, these are all sort of raising the capacity of not only the human beings, but of all living things, to a new frequency, a new understanding, a new kind of social contract, if you want to put it that way. KC: Yeah, and I think, Arthur, you could, maybe, talk to that because you might have a different... I don’t know if you call yourself a physicist officially. HD/AN: No, no. KC: But, you certainly have some expertise in that area. HD/AN: Well, I don’t have expertise. But, in some of what you just said, you took some of the words out of my mouth, so you already said some of what I would have said about all these, well, as David Wilcock’s talking. He’s making a movie called Convergence, and this is what’s happening. All these various things are all just converging.

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around the world, sort of like time bombs somewhat. And you also talked about a roll-out that would affect our economy, etc., etc. HD/AN: Well, these are different from the changes... Okay, I mentioned Novelty Theory, which Terence McKenna, who’s deceased now, who lived on the Big Island of Hawaii, I believe. He talked about, he had, I guess, a calculation for it, and that mathematical equation can be found on the Internet, I guess. And you can see that it comes down to zero at 2012 approximately, from what I remember. KC: And that means what? That novelty goes down to zero? HD/AN: Well, Novelty. It becomes more novel, in my opinion. KC: Okay. That’s what I’m asking. HD/AN: Yeah. To me it means more novel... well, novel to me means -- I would laugh, you know, about it, but it’s not -- I don’t have the words. I don’t have the ability to put things into words that some of these gentlemen do, to put things in words. BR: Let me interpret this for you, then you can check my reflection. HD/AN: All right. BR: I read a book called Future Shock by Alvin Toffler many, many years ago, who said that the rate of change is accelerating. HD/AN: Oh yeah. BR: So, you’ve got a logarithmic change here, such that everything is starting to change. HD/AN: Exactly. BR: And it’s like there are statistics, which I can’t quote off hand, but it’s like 99 percent of all the innovations in human history have happened in the last year. HD/AN: Yeah. BR: Or something like that. And the whole thing is going vertical. HD/AN: My feeling is that, as of about two months ago, just because there’s no direct marker, that maybe two months ago, when I started weaning myself off of morphine for four years... BR: Because? You were on morphine because...? Just for the record. HD/AN: I don’t know how to say it. They couldn’t come up with any lab tests that were conclusive, so it was by exclusion, and they said it was just a peripheral neuropathy and exhaustion. But, that all happened suddenly when I left my last classified work, just coincided with that. What it means, nobody knows; there’s some guessing. BD: Isn’t that an interesting coincidence? KC: Arthur, I have to say actually two months ago, I would agree with you that there seemed to be a transition that happened. There’s nothing marked in terms of in the news but there was a sense that things started escalating, almost like rolling downhill quicker. That was the sense I got and it’s interesting that you say that. And you did; you sort of came awake and started on this sort of move that has put you on stage twice now. HD/AN: But something... something’s happened to where something that was incurable... just, all of a sudden, I’m coming back to normal. AW: From the point of view of the Time Acceleration Matrix, that would have been the sixth day of the Galactic Era, and, in this particular window, which goes from November ’08 to November ’09, there are many, many sorts of breakthroughs. So, if we’re all feeling that general breakthrough feeling in our individual lives, that may be coming from the programming put out by the electromagnetic emanations from the black hole at the center of the Galaxy that the Mayans called Hunab-Ku, which is the center of all things. I see -- and this to ask in particular of Bob Dean and Arthur, because they’ve dealt so much with the area of secrecy -- I find myself as one who did not come up in the culture of secrecy, but see secrecy as one of the most powerful forces between the Open Culture and this breakaway civilization that is the Secret Civilization. Then, two months ago, something told me: You have to stop this. No one else is going to wean you off this medicine. So, I made a spreadsheet out and every hour of the day that I was taking it, because I lost of track of how much I was taking. It was like 180 milligrams of morphine, probably, a day. It was out of control. And so something said: You need to wean yourself off now... and I don’t wish that on anyone to do that. But, I got off slowly and two days, approximately two days before, all of a sudden, the Zurich Conference happened, which was a week or so ago? I had just weaned myself off and I didn’t even know about going to the conference or anything. It just happened. So the timing is such that it’s a message to me that, yeah, now’s the time when everything starts to really move quickly. HD/AN: Yes. KC: I was going to say: what a coincidence! HD/AN: But, when I said good-bye suddenly and ran away, instead of them controlling me, and then, I had this shock, shocks to my system. But, the thing is, about two months ago, something in my subconscious... I had just been waiting patiently, basically in bed in this room for three or four years in severe pain, screaming in pain every day almost... and Bill experienced pushing me around in a wheelchair one time. But, I thought: Just be patient. Be patient, and, using the mind, I got through that.

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I’ve found one of the most consciousness-raising aspects, to me, is to hear of secrets, like the teleportation corridors to Mars, like the forward positions on Mars, the stargates to Australia. To just begin to see all of these secret programs is really consciousnessexpanding. KC: Well, exactly. Information... I mean the information itself, just to hear it, like what happened for these people yesterday on stage when you were showing photographs that were really revolutionary, because they had been hidden for so long. And then to have a person who actually would get up on stage and say: I’ve been to Mars and here I am -- a human. That was, I think, mind-expanding for the audience in ways that we won’t be able to even trace. BR: It’s historical, no? KC: Yeah. And, obviously, I don’t even know if it’ll go out around the world other than because Camelot will do our bit, right? But, this is the kind of thing that changes consciousness. And one of the things I have to say is that consciousness changes drastically, all of a sudden. It’s not like a slow, gradual... it goes along, goes along, and, from what I understand, change actually happens like that [makes hand gesture of 90-degree turn upward]. HD/AN: Well, even greater and faster than logarithmic, is my feeling. BR: The step changes. HD/AN: Well, I don’t know if the step changes or not. I don’t know if it’s like that or not. But it... digitized or not. KC: So Bob, what would you say? Because you have kind of a little more pragmatic view -- correct me if I’m wrong, along with the spiritual insight -- but, I think you’re seeing these changes or you know of things that are coming down the pike that are very pragmatic for peoples’ lives. BD: Well, I found secrecy, actually, to be corrosive to the human soul and that’s one of the reasons I have been speaking out so bluntly and so loudly over the last few years. I noticed among the masses of people that I’ve confronted in conferences here and there, an over-riding sense of fear, and the secrecy had been taking its toll on those people. They were fearful and they didn’t believe they had a future. They began to think there was no future, that we’re all doomed. And one of the reasons I came to this conference—and I gave it a lot of thought before I accepted the invitation, because I don’t like traveling anymore. I really don’t like flying in airplanes anymore. I came here to, I think, alleviate in one small way the secrecy that I had observed that was corrosive to the human soul, and I wanted to tell the people in this audience in particular... to meet some people like Alfred here, who is a man I’ve respected and admired for years. There is hope in spite of all the darkness, in spite of all of the fear. I would like to say to the people who are interested and listening that there is a tomorrow. There is a future, and they and their children and their grandchildren and so on, the generations yet to come, do, indeed, have a future and it’s glorious. They’ve got to hold on to that spark of belief. They’ve got to hold on to that hope. That’s why I quoted Tolstoy yesterday when I was speaking, when he mentioned that there is something within the human spirit that will prevail and endure. There’s a spark that’s burning in the human heart that will not go out, no matter how dark the world ever becomes. I’ve tried in my small way to convey that to the people. And I was so gratified at the response that I got. They’ve come up to me, literally by the hundreds. I mean, I say this in no negative intent, but they haven’t let me alone! The idea that I said something hopeful in telling them they do have a tomorrow, [that] they have a future, that their children and grandchildren will go to the stars... that is the one thing that they need to hold onto. There is a future. There is a destiny for the human race in the stars. And that’s why I’m here. That’s why I came to add my small two or three cents to this whole thing. KC: Well, I would also say that another thing that you tell them is that they have a right to know. BD: Oh God, they do indeed! KC: And I think that just gets a fire burning inside them. BD: Well, I’ve been furious. The fire burning inside of me has erupted several times, and it’s dangerous. My very nature... back when I was an infantryman for years and years and years, I was not a gentle man. You pushed my buttons, pushed me just a little too far, I had the tendency to become somewhat explosive and, need I say, I had a tendency to be a little bit dangerous. It’s one of the reasons why the Black Ops people have left me alone. [Kerry laughs] Because I put the word out that... you know, I had been followed in black sedans for a long time. At night I had the midnight phone calls. I had the black helicopters over my house. I put out the word that I was a veteran of two wars. I suffered from Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome, and I could not be trusted emotionally; and if you push me a little too far, I was an expert marksman and I carried a gun. Beware, you know, you mess with me, I might end up shooting a bunch of you guys. And you know, the black limousines stopped following me, the black helicopters disappeared, and the midnight phone calls stopped. So, the word evidently got out that... don’t push this old bastard, because he can be dangerous, you see? KC: Except you also had White Hats behind you. BD: Oh listen! Let me tell you, honey, I have a lot of good friends in high places, and I admitted at this conference things I’ve never admitted publicly before. I do, indeed, have good

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friends in high places and I say that with a little bit of tongue in cheek because these high places... KC: They go up and up and up. BD: They go out and out and out, yeah. HD/AN: Yeah. The conference... You know, for the last few weeks the ones—whatever they are—the invisible part of the whole thing is... whatever it is, it’s very powerful and everyone feels it in the conference. In the conferences, they’re all expressing the same feelings, I think, at least 98 percent. BD: Arthur, the human race is a work in progress. HD/AN: Yeah. BD: And who has been running this experiment? [points upward] HD/AN: Who’s been running...? Yes, well, but they’ve given us the freedom, too, at the same time. BD: Oh, well, you know, we’re an adolescent species. We haven’t quite graduated yet. HD/AN: We just need to learn that we’re to work as a family instead of fighting each other. BD: We are not quite adults yet. We are troublesome adolescents almost on the edge of being adults... but we’re going to make it. AW: Now, just to pick up this thread here, of secrets, and of the deconstruction in making public the secrets, yesterday here at the Summit, the high point of the Summit was when, after Bob spoke, and revealed a number of fundamental secrets, Arthur came on the stage spontaneously and also revealed a number of secrets. HD/AN: Not much. AW: No, but I mean... KC: Enough. AW: In context, it was a revelation that our Solar System is inhabited and that Earth is part of the functioning social system. And that was the high point of this conference. Literally the consciousness of the conference was raised. KC: A complete change. AW: Yes, and that was acknowledged—right?—by people. People acknowledged that. I think, just as you were coming in, it was acknowledged. So, if we take this, ending the secrecy, I think is going to be an important function of the consciousness-raising, and having Henry and Bob come forth in settings like this to reveal secrets which they’ve lived with for so many years is like a baptism to the people, and an empowerment. BR: Yes. HD/AN: Bob was a chief soul for me, because I spoke to Bob privately just momentarily, because he’d been very busy with all these other people wanting to talk with him, and we have some common connections throughout time, different places we worked... in Belgium and such, and other places. And we both have an Army background, enlisted, and just different places at different times. But you’re like... it was a confirmation to me, you know. I finally met someone that, you know, could kind of reinforce my background. And -- before -- I felt alone, you know. BD: There, there. You’re in good hands. You’re in good hands. [laughter] This experience for me has been, and I say this not with any animosity, but this experience has been for me like a Catholic going to confession. [laughter] You know, they say that confession is good for your soul. Well, speaking bluntly on secrecy and some things that have been covered up for so long, I felt an overwhelming wave of relief to have finally gone public on a couple of things that I have found to be factual and true. One of them is that deep underground facility outside of Las Vegas where this Air Force Colonel friend of mine went through one door in Nevada, and in two minutes, he was in Pine Gap, Australia. Now, that kind of secrecy, that technology that allows that to happen, stuns people. Do you mean that we’ve done that? We’ve got that? We can do things like that? What have they been keeping from us? KC: Okay, well... HD/AN: I don’t like flashing credentials or anything, but it’s my credentials. Inside this passport that I stole from my job, there just happens to be a... what do you call it here? KC: A stamp? HD/AN: It’s so simple. BR: Can you show it to the camera? HD/AN: It’s a stamp in here that says: The bearer is a member of the civilian component as defined by Article One of the Agreement between Australia and United States forces in Australia signed at Canberra on May 9, 1963. It’s just one of the visas, you know, in this passport. This one’s for Japan. BR: Could you show just the front of the passport for the camera? It’s a brown cover, official passport. It’s not a normal passport. KC: And we do want to say for the camera that we’ve actually been to... I can’t say we went inside, but to the outside of this person’s place of work, one of them. I’m not going to say where AW: Because secrets are disempowering. KC: That‘s right.

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on the globe it was or anything else, so don’t worry, Arthur. But I will say that we have gotten substantial verification that Arthur is who he says he is. BR: I would say total verification as far as we’re able to. KC: And it was quite extraordinary. HD/AN: Actually I tried... I encouraged them, wherever this place was at one point that we traveled, I encouraged them to come and meet the security people who I knew by first name and they were kind of reluctant to do that [laughs] at that point. BR: That was when we were a little more nervous than we are now. What we did do, just for the record... it was quite fun. We accompanied Arthur into a bar where the local employees in this establishment would go in the evenings, and we just sat in a corner and watched all his old colleagues welcome him and say: Hey, we haven’t seen you for a while. And that was quite fun to do that. KC: Yeah. BR: Anyway... I’m a little concerned here, Bob, that you were interrupted just now because you were telling the story about two things that you felt gave you a great sense of relief when you disclosed them yesterday. One of them was the reality of the stargate, the portal, the wormhole, the jump room, the network so that you could one moment be in Area 51, the next moment in Pine Gap. And that prompted Arthur to show his Australian visa in his ... Was it a visa? HD/A: It’s a visa. KC: More than that. BR: And the second thought? Please continue, because I want to hear this one. BD: It’s a matter of interest to me and it always has been, that one of the largest national security agency facilities in the world is at Pine Gap, but what most people have no understanding of is that underground at Pine Gap is one of the largest extraterrestrial facilities on the planet! Our remote viewers have been looking in on that place for years and years and years. And what I found terribly amusing -- not that there’s that much humor in this whole damn thing -- but that facility in Australia at Pine Gap apparently is an extraterrestrial R & R center. And people say: What do you mean, R & R? It’s a military term meaning rest and relaxation. And I thought, how obvious, you know. It makes sense. Aliens are here, having to deal with the human race, they need rest and relaxation. BR: They need some... BD: I deal with the human race and I need rest and relaxation! Which is what I’m going to get when I go home tomorrow, you see. But I found it amusing, out of all the four major facilities on the planet, the one in Australia is an R & R center for the guys from out there. BR: Arthur, have you been there? Or would you rather fix me with a steely eye and not answer? HD/AN: Well, let’s talk about something else! [laughter] KC: Well, let me say that you were nodding, so I thought that was... HD/AN: I would like to say something -- it’s just simple -- that may be slightly off course here, but a couple of things. One is we’re talking about secrets and stuff, that a lot of stuff gets classified “Secret” or whatever; just because you’ve got a stamp there and you have to do something with it. [Kerry laughs] You know, it’s not... BD: They’ve gone wild with it. They’ve gone mad. HD/AN: And they stamp everything and it gets filed away and then it has to get declassified, you know. It’s just routine to stamp everything. BD: The Navy keeps secrets from the Army. The Army keeps secrets from the Air Force. The FBI keeps secrets from the CIA, and that all led to 9/11. That’s where the secrecy leads, to disasters like that. HD/AN: Yeah. And the thing is, someone needs to interface between all these different groups and try and help them to communicate with each other while respecting their own boundaries. KC: And are you willing to agree with me that you were one of those people that kind of crossed some of those lines? HD/A: Yes. Yeah. KC: Between the various agencies? HD/A: Yes. My “customers” were the whole spectrum. KC: Which is why you kind of have the level of knowledge about the overall big picture, as we call it. HD/AN: That’s why I’m a big picture person and always a general person and not focused in one area. And I didn’t ask for it, believe me. It just happened. You know, you just get a phone call and you just... nothing else but a phone call: Would you like a job? “Yes.” Okay. “What is it?” Well, you just have to be patient and find out. It’s that kind of thing. The other thing is at some levels, people are saying that the governments -- like the presidents or whatever, or the leaders of the country -- should release these secrets. But they haven’t had access to this information. They get the tours of certain things, but it’s very limited. They get to see blinking lights or whatever, like... you know, and that’s as far as it goes, as far as I’ve ever been aware.

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BD: Arthur, the incident involving President Carter some years ago, where the President of the United States was told by the Director of Central Intelligence: Mr. President, you don’t have a high enough security classification for us to tell you all this information and, sir, you don’t have a need to know. Now, who was the Director of Central Intelligence at that moment? George Herbert Walker Bush, who became President -that’s how damn bad it’s become over the years. That’s how corrosive secrecy can be, not merely to the human soul, but to the constitutional system of government. It’s corrosive as hell and it’s got to stop! And I know you agree with me. HD/AN: Yes, the fear thing’s got to stop and we need to alleviate the fear for people, because all of these things, most of the things that we see in the press, are just created and planned long ago -fictitious enemies. There are enemies, but a lot of them are manufactured and some of them aren’t even real. Okay? And there’s a long list, and they’re almost at the end of their list. They’re at the very end of their list now, the timing, so there’s nothing else, no more rabbits to pull out of the hat. KC: Wait a second. I want to actually say... [to Arthur] what was your level of clearance? Because his [Bob Dean] was Cosmic Top Secret. HD/A: Cosmic Top Secret, because that’s a NATO classification. BD: That’s NATO. And there are levels above that. There are two “Q” clearances above that. KC: You had a “Q”. HD/A: My first one was a “Q” clearance, with certain letters. BD: Special Access Programs. HD/AN: Yeah, but it was “Q” clearance and that was through the Department of Energy, it was the Energy Research and Development Agency. Before that, it was the Atomic Energy Commission, and they keep changing names and you have to keep reprinting the paperwork and everything. I don’t know why. But, yeah, it was a “Q” clearance, and then it went to... basically from there it varied. It went up and down from Secret up to Top Secret and over a period of 30 years or more. And then it ended up with Top Secret SCI and then Top Secret with a bunch of letters which I still... I don’t know. It doesn’t matter. But they were... it was basically... KC: You’re not sure if you can’t say what it was. HD/AN: Yeah... It doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter. KC: Okay. BR: I would like to ask—because this is sort of meant to be a Futuretalk as it were... I fully understand and agree with you when you talk about the agenda of hyping up fear in order to AW: No, no. Sure. But, whether or not they are supra governments, they are still subject to natural law and universal law, and they can be called before a court empowered under natural law to stand trial for war crimes. But we don’t want to go And so we have rights, we have inherent rights in the same way I think under natural law, which will invoke that, which were expressed in the Declaration of Independence of the US. They were expressed in the US Constitution, the Canadian Charter of Rights, in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, various documents in our terrestrial human culture. And those include rights as sovereign citizens in the universe. Therefore, if our governments are now engaged in long term... I mean these things go back at least 20 or 30 years. That’s just from people who I’ve talked to. KC: Treaties have been made... HD/AN: I have to remind you that the “governments”... it’s not the Presidents and down, or the queen and down. It’s agencies above that. So, you can’t blame the governments that we normally call governments. make people more easily controllable. But let’s ask the three of you: What is worth being concerned about and what is a distraction? What should we be focused on as issues for the human race in the next few years? And what just is something that is a misdirect, like a magician on a stage that we shouldn’t even be worried about, but they’re trying to get us to think that way? How can you separate these things out for people? This is a really important opportunity to make a statement. BD: Alfred probably is best qualified to answer that. AW: Well, as a general answer to that, I would say that anything associated with the current world economy, which is an economy based on the manipulation of the dialectic of enemies, is a fundamental distraction, so that the entirety of the arms race, the entirety of the strategic balance of forces using threat of war, is a distraction. BR: So, don’t fall for the war rhetoric? AW: Right. And number two, the area that these gentlemen have worked in, I think, is the cutting edge of human consciousness moving to the next level and that is... HD/AN: I think it’s you [who are] working in the area of human consciousness! AW: Well, no, but understanding that an extraterrestrial presence is not just an abstraction, but, rather, it’s a human race very much like our own... HD/AN: It’s an extension of our family. AW: Yeah...that lives under the surface of Mars, with whom our secret government now has contact.

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that direction. The direction that we want to go is to have that secret world become transparent, and integrated with our world, for which we have an inherent right under natural law. BR: Bob, you have your hand raised. You wanted to say something? BD: I simply must apologize that I have an appointment I accepted for an interview in about five minutes and I do want to say I’m sorry, but I will have to take leave of you illustrious personalities here for a while. I have to go. I’m sorry, Kerry. KC: Okay. It’s okay. Is there anything you want to say before you leave, Bob, about the end of secrecy and the beginning of what’s coming next? Because just as I went to get you today, you were addressing a group and you said there’s going to be in the next 12 to 18 months some things that people need to prepare for. BD: Yeah. Well, the gentleman I was talking to was an economist and a bit of a banker and he’s been looking at the statistics, the data, and he’s been watching what’s been going on in the world markets and he’s troubled by what he sees. He’s convinced that we’re not out of the woods yet on this economic thing. He asked me what did I honestly think the next year or so had coming? I said, as I said yesterday, we’re in for some bad times. We have not seen the worst of it yet, and I hate to tell you that, but that’s true. We have not seen the worst. The other shoe has not dropped yet. The only thing I can tell you is that, within the next year and a half, we’re in for some events on the world scale that is going to make 9/11 pale in comparison. And that is sad and tragic. But to leave you with this, I must leave you on an up-note for the viewers who will be seeing this and as Tolstoy said: There is that spark that burns deep within each of us. It will not go out, no matter how dark the world becomes. I want to leave this with the people who will see this tape: There is a tomorrow, the future of this species is glorious; it is in the stars. And they’ve got to have hope and not be afraid. That’s all I can say in closing. KC: Okay. Thank you, Bob. BD: Thank you, sweetheart. KC: It’s an honor, as always. BR: Thanks so much, Bob. BD: It’s always a pleasure. Read this gentleman’s book. [Ed. note: Alfred Webre, Exopolitics: Politics, Government, and Law in the Universe] KC: Absolutely. Yes. Well, I’ve read his work. Actually I read his book a long time ago. Before the organization of Exopolitics was ever created, this man had the vision of something. BD: He’s a true visionary. HD/AN: Yes. KC: Oh yes, absolutely. I don’t think people even realize that that this man is a true futurist, actually. BD: Well, if someone would be kind enough... KC: And, he should be listened to in that way, because what he says today is not often not understood, but I think it’s always the kind of thing that years in advance, years later, they’re going to say he was one of the first, if not the first, in certain areas. It’s a gift. BD: We need our prophets and we need our visionaries. And here sits one. KC: That’s right. HD/AN: I just feel that we need to realize that the rest of our family has been here visiting us, and also slightly off the planet, and other places in there. They’re interested in watching and they would not have survived as long as they have if they hadn’t gone through this transition that we’re about to go through. And so, you have to realize that they’re friendly and not evil, mean creatures out there like in some science fiction movies. BR: All of them? HD/AN: Anyone that’s survived. Generally, anyone’s that survived that’s worthwhile, I mean, the majority. Otherwise they would have destroyed themselves by now. BR: Yeah. You’re not saying that 100% of the extraterrestrials races are friendly. HD/AN: Well, they have a different way of... they have a different way. KC: Some are service-to-self; some are service-to-others. Service-to-self actually means that they... what you’re... what they’re... because you haven’t actually met them all, right? HD/AN: No, that’s impossible. KC: You were only exposed to a few. HD/AN: Yeah. I mean, you’re talking about particular groups. But, the thing is that in general... I mean, there was this Type 0 that was talked about, and Type 1? They wouldn’t have survived this Type-0-to-Type-1 transition if they hadn’t raised their consciousness to some degree. In general, that’s the case. And, then, it may have been some exceptions, but they’re such a minority that... [Ed note: Just google “ Kardashev scale ” to learn more about the “Type 0” theory.]

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KC: Well, actually, our government, their liaison, is often with these service-to-self. HD/AN: Yeah. That’s right. BR: And the evil forces on this planet aren’t doing it all on their own, right? They didn’t think up all this stuff on their own. KC: We, actually… humanity isn’t doing it all on their own. They’re being pushed and prodded by some unseen forces and unseen beings. It may be a philosophical difference. HD/AN: It’s a philosophical difference. That’s what it is, yeah. BR: By recognizing their existence, I’m not giving them power. I’m just saying we’ve got to tell the truth here. There is evil out there in the universe. It doesn’t just stop at the Illuminati. HD/AN: Well, there’s darkness, but darkness is for me... I view it as ignorance or, ultimately, the absence of light. It’s not an opposing force, ultimately. There’s light and then there’s no light, or the interference... BR: I was talking about functionality here. KC: Okay. So, maybe, we can actually... even you could talk about, Alfred, what we’ve been talking about off camera a little bit, in terms of there is investigation at the moment going into some of the relationships that are going on behind the scenes with various races. AW: Yes. Sure. Just to keep it down to specific data-points, we know what Arthur has said here, that he’s been to Mars. We also have another very credible whistleblower who we’ve talked about, who in 1980, went to Mars twice. BR: This is Andrew Basiago. AW: Yes, in the company of a CIA officer, Courtney Hunt, just to put that on the record, through a Mars jump room, a teleportation jump room, from El Segundo, California, to one of the sort of bunker-type bases right out on the surface of Mars, and who walked around on the surface of Mars. And, who in 1971, in the company of his father, who was a CIA contract officer type, met three Martian astronauts who were on a liaison and coordination visit at Curtis Wright Air Force Base. [This reference is unclear. Google: Curtiss-Wright is a manufacturer of jet fighter aircraft. In the Barcelona panel discussion, he called this Wright AFB in New Jersey. There is no listing for that in NJ, although there is a McGuire AFB in Wrightstown, NJ. Otherwise, there is Wright-Patterson AFB in Ohio.] So we know that from at least 1971, there’s been a coordinating and liaison type function for relationship between the Martians and the U.S. government. Well, from what I’ve read, the Martian civilization is a positive, ethical civilization. So, to counteract, our strategy should be as citizens to encourage an open strategic alliance between our culture, our Open Culture, and the Martian culture, and to make that available immediately at the highest level, which is a Presidential acknowledgement of the existence and relationship with the civilization on Mars. BR: And that’s one of the founding principles of Exopolitics. AW: Exactly. KC: Yeah, but I would like to say that you [Arthur] are nodding, so you’re kind of recognizing some of the testimony... HD/AN: Yes. I never heard of this until now, this person or anything, and it’s like: Ah! Someone else! You know? BR: Another one... yeah. HD/AN: It sounds like a very similar kind of work, too. Very similar. KC: But, I would like to say -- and I’m throwing this out here -- I am familiar, because I’ve had some personal contact with some, what I know of as Annunaki, and that there are some positive Annunaki and there are some more negatively oriented. You know, just like there are humans, good and bad, you know, there are different Annunaki. And I have to say that they’re interacting with individuals, because I have had some interaction. They have made their presence known to me. And I know Bob isn’t here to actually talk about this, but Bob has had his own interaction with Annunaki that he has talked about with us, and I think he met them. HD/AN: Well, the Annunaki are the exception that I was talking about where it’s... but I really didn’t have any time to even really communicate, because it’s always at a table in a room and it’s just... That wasn’t my function, to get to know everyone intimately, you know. KC: Right. HD/AN: But, it was similar to what you [Alfred] were talking about, liaison and things like that. BR: But, the table you’re talking about is a table surrounded by humans not from this planet, right? HD/AN: Yeah. Well, they look like humans in general. Yes. Uh huh. KC: And this took place at times also on Mars, right? HD/A: That’s where they all took place for me. For me. KC: Did you ever meet with these people here? Because as Bob was saying, he met with, a scientist was... HD/AN: No. Not here. KC: I see.

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BR: I just wanted to jump in before the end of the tape to say that we... HD/AN: I’m sorry. I made a mistake. Did I ever meet with them when I was not working? Yes. But that’s another story, a long time ago. BR: That’s another interesting story. KC: Oh, right. Okay. BR: I just want to say on record that the person who Alfred Webre is talking about is Andy Basiago. We’ve been in touch with him for 18 months. We haven’t met him personally, but I personally spoke with him 18 months ago for four hours continuously, which is one of the more extraordinary conversations I’ve had in my life. I’ve had quite a lot of extraordinary conversations now. KC: And I lasted about two hours. I couldn’t last the whole time, to be honest. BR: And as far as we are able to determine, and I’m just speaking epistemologically here, we fully support Andy’s story and we fully support his own intention to release his story to the world. He’s only told a tiny part of it so far. What’s really interesting here is that this dovetails fully with Arthur’s personal experiences to do with time travel, to do with wormholes, to do with the relationship with activity on Mars, and a whole complexity here that’s very hard to swallow, but it’s extremely important to understand. I just wanted to add our own support to that. This is something else that we’ll pick up and roll with later, because it’s way beyond the scope of this conversation. KC: Okay, but I had a conversation today with one of our whistleblowers and he actually was talking about the amount of radiation on Mars and questioning... BR: No, he wasn’t. He was talking about the radiation in the Van Allen Belts. KC: No, he actually also talked about the radiation on Mars and I was asking him about that and I said that the bases were underground. Is there radiation on Mars in excess of what we have, for example, here on Earth? HD/AN: Because of what I was doing there, I wasn’t even focused on thinking about those things. I simply was going there for an hour—[laughs] it sounds strange—for an hour meeting and then I’d leave and come here. And so for me, because of the way my life’s been like this for forever you know, nothing was unusual. I didn’t even think about things like that, whether there was radiation or not. Those things were just handled by the way the system was set up there, or is set up, or will be set up. I don’t even know what time period it is now. That’s another subject. KC: Well you had physiological reaction to having gone through that process. Is that right? HD/AN: Right. Yeah. That’s another thing, because of the kind of like jetlag kind of thing. There is medicine that I was taking that, when I quit, I actually forgot about, because everything happened so suddenly when I quit that it was not available any longer. But that’s another subject again. BR: Well it’s tough to be, yeah... earlier, at the start of this conversation, Arthur made a joke and said that he ran away. This is not true, and I didn’t want that to be misunderstood. It was after a disagreement at work; you basically handed in your notice. HD/A: It was kind of... it was not even a disagreement, it was... BR: It was a conflict. HD/AN: Mm... It was just… I got very tired, because things were becoming more and more restricted in my life, to the point of where I could no longer even call my friends or email my friends, and instead of just trying to sit it out and go through all the massive paperwork and things, and waiting, I just decided, you know, I would make the decision instead. BR: So, basically, it was a relatively sudden departure. HD/AN: Very sudden. BR: Rather than being gradually rooted out, and that involved your suddenly not taking any more of a particular medication. HD/AN: Which I forgot about because I just... I literally left everything behind in my home and just went to another country. BR: Yes. What I’m stating here is that the medication you took was something called ‘Lorenzil’ [Ed note: Could not clarify this word ... Lorenzo’s Oil? Used in treating certain neuropathies. Lorenzol? Used in veterinary medicine.] which if you suddenly withdraw from that... Sorry. That the effects that the Lorenzil is designed to ameliorate is something that’s called transdimensional disorder. HD/A: Well, this is something that I understand from someone else that I didn’t know about. BR: Okay. This is another thing that’s beyond the scope of this conversation. It’s got to do with a zero time reference that Peter Moon talked about in his first Montauk books and so on and so forth. For the body it’s very disorienting when it’s going through jump gates, or jump rooms, or whatever it is you want to call these things. There’s a certain medication that one has to take in order to ameliorate that. If you suddenly withdraw from that, then you’re in big trouble, and this is one of the things that you are up against. KC: Right. And I think that, at another point, we can talk in more depth about that. But, for the purposes of this conversation, we’re really talking about the future of humanity and our interaction with, well, certainly Annunaki on Mars. But, we have a statement that was made, which was actually said to us by Robert Dean and also some other whistleblowers, that

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the Annunaki are running things from behind the scenes here on Earth. And I wonder if you, Alfred, would address that at all. BR: Or try to. AW: Right. Well certainly I’ve heard that there are various... That is, to take a model of how decisions are made here on Earth, there are various models which have some evidence for them. One model is a more drastic model than the Annunaki model. That involves—whether or not this is a true model or is the model based on disinformation—involves the existence of a reptilian race in the fourth density, that is one more density up from us. They have more control over time, and that density has been behind the phenomenon of alien abductions. Now, there are researchers, like Dr. Steven Greer, who believe that all abductions... the Roper Poll shows that about two percent of the US population, or about 6 million people, have been abducted, which is a substantial number of people. And there are researchers, like Dr. Steven Greer, who believe that all of the abductions are psy-ops, and are essentially done by elements of the US government, as psychological warfare both against the human population and against the ethical extraterrestrial population, to stigmatize them. Whether or not that’s true or not, there is certainly evidence that both small Gray-looking beings and reptilian beings have been engaged in extraterrestrial abductions of a substantial number of people, with a high strangeness theme. And these have been with secret contracts. KC: But the fourth-dimensional aspect, which is the interdimensional quality of this interaction and the fact of these beings, is a little different, I would say, than what we interact with in terms of the Annunaki—in theory anyway. AW: Yes. Yeah, this is a different sort of interaction. BR: One second. We’ve got to stop. We’ve got one minute. KC: Okay. Then let’s do some sort of a summation and I’d like you [Alfred] to handle that, if you wouldn’t mind. AW: Okay. Well, first of all I think that we’ve established that the release of secrecy, we know empirically from yesterday, is a great consciousness-raising event and it will be the deconstruction of secrecy, with these great cosmic cycles, that will mediate a positive human future. BR: That’s great. HD/A: A natural, almost natural event. AW: Yeah. BR: Arthur, Alfred, thank you so much for spending so much of your time with us. We’ll continue this conversation later. And we have to come to an end here because we’ve got no more digits. And, Kerry, thank you too. KC: Absolutely. Thank you so much. This has been a fun, but enlightening event we’ve got going here, and we’re going to continue this conversation for years to come, I’m sure.

**Transcript provided by the hard-working volunteer members of the Divine Cosmos/ Project Camelot Transcription Team. All the transcripts that you find on both sites have been provided by the Transcription Team for the last several years. We are like ants: we may be hidden, but we create clean transcripts for your enjoyment and pondering.**

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Project Camelot: Dr. Steven Greer - The Unknown Agenda
Barcelona, Spain, July 26, 2009
We listened to his presentation today and learned that he is stating to the world that the secret government has no ongoing dealings with any ET races -- the worst kind of disinfo. He is also telling people that ALL ETs and interdimensionals are positively oriented -- in other words STO (service-to-others) -- and this is also false. Many are friendly... but some are hostile. The trouble with this type of approach is that it leaves the fate of Earth and humanity vulnerable to take over and interference by races who do not have our best interests in mind (or heart). In doing so, he ignores the critical issue of sovereignty for humanity and this planet within the galactic community. We do not agree with Greer's position and consider this dangerous and insidious. As a final statement, we were disappointed to learn that our interview request was declined by him: it would have been an interesting and valuable conversation. --Kerry We had only weeks previously been explicitly told by Dr Pete Peterson that most ETs were friendly, but some were not, and that was the main reason why he continued to do work for the US Government. We spent two full days talking with Dr Peterson on this and other subjects: his statement was compelling to us, and rang true. After we had stated our opinion on our site, we were approached by Dr Greer's PR representative and were informed that he would do an interview. What you see here was hastily arranged, for which we apologize. We needed to catch the moment while it was available. What you will see in this 70 minute video is an impassioned, articulate and intelligent discussion which has as its central theme the most important question that may be faced by the human race: Can we trust ALL the visitors to Planet Earth? To risk a simplistic paraphrase, Dr Greer says Yes, and Project Camelot says Not Necessarily. The debate is well-informed and vigorous. We thank Dr Greer for appearing with us, and he gave a good account of himself. And so did we. Enjoy... and we would like to emphasize again what we stated clearly in the video: that none of us can know with certainty the agendas of all the many visiting ET races, and to presume that one does may be irresponsible and premature. Informed by what we know, we stand by that view - and we look forward to further discussion as more information continues to become available.

--- The fact that you and I are still breathing the free air of Earth is abundant testimony to the fact that these civilizations are not hostile. -Dr Steven Greer talks to Art Bell on “Coast to Coast AM” 8 August 2004 [read full interview at end of this interview]

Dr Steven Greer of the Disclosure Project is almost too wellknown in the UFO research community to require an introduction. His ground-breaking Press Conference, in Washington in May 2001, was one of a number of influential factors which inspired us to found Project Camelot five years later. Our intention was to support his initiative and add further momentum, and information, to the disclosure moment at a grassroots level. Yet, all was not well. Whenever a correspondent wrote to Steven Greer asking him about Project Camelot, they received a standard letter back from his office stating that Project Camelot was disinformation. And despite being extremely accessible on the UFO Conference circuit over the last three years, we had never once had the chance to meet or speak with him. Since we were all attending the Barcelona Exopolitics Summit in July 2009, we were looking forward, at last, to the opportunity to talk. More than one person in his entourage was also supportive of our meeting, as they themselves had been following Camelot's work for long enough to know that our intentions were honorable. However, Steven Greer ignored us, and declined to appear at the pre-conference panel discussion which we had been specifically invited to Barcelona to moderate. Disappointed, we attended his main conference presentation and heard him state explicitly (as he has done on many public occasions) that all the ET visitors were friendly. In response to this, we made a statement on the 'What's New' section of our site, making clear our disagreement and that this unilateral position was, in our informed opinion, dangerous and premature: On Dr Steven Greer:

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We have entitled it The Unknown Agenda. Few have tackled Steven Greer as openly and honestly as this in the public domain. This is part of the job we do: to ask questions that our listeners would want us to ask. We care deeply about the views we expressed and feel they are of the utmost importance. --Bill This is not a conventional interview, but a contentious, frank exchange of views. It is a debate on a very important subject. For those of you who prefer to hear more from Greer where he is uncontested we encourage you to visit his website or watch other interviews on YouTube. Our approach in this interview is purposeful and we do not apologize for insisting on sharing equal ground with Greer to discuss this important subject. --Kerry Enjoy... Start of Interview Kerry Cassidy (KC): Hi. I’m Kerry Cassidy from Project Camelot. Bill Ryan (BR): And I’m Bill Ryan. This is Sunday, the 26th of July, 2009. Have I got that right? I personally want to say that I’m delighted to be here with Steven Greer. Of all the people who we get emails asking us to interview, you are number one on quite a long list. The reason for that is that people see Project Camelot as continuing to kick the ball that was kicked off by the Disclosure Project back in 1993. You started something that we’re doing our best to support you with in terms of bringing the truth to the world. Steven Greer (SG): Oh, good. Thank you. BR: We want to thank you for that. SG: Oh, you’re welcome. Thank you. KC: So we have some questions for you, but they might not be the most comfortable of questions. SG: Oh, I can take any questions. KC: Okay. And we’ve heard that you’re not a wilting violet, as they call it, or whatever. So what we’re wondering here... because we have different philosophies, I think, and different approaches, and I think that’s really interesting. I know that we started out, maybe, at the same place in terms of we’re taking witness testimony – and certainly you did – and that tactic was very effective and has stimulated us to go down the road we went on. We’ve been doing this for a little over three years now. BR: We agree with that. KC: [laughs] Yeah. SG: Okay, so that was one area. But the largest one... and this is when everything went deep black in October 1954 – we know it to the day – was because they had actually figured out, and mastered, the electromagnetic / gravitic propulsion systems. So that was 55 years ago. KC: Right. SG: Okay, so 55 years ago there was the ability to master those technologies. And obviously, when the Rockefeller Commission, that reorganized the Department of Defense and the CIA, was put together by Eisenhower, what they did was reorganize it in a way so that these sort of issues were handled under work for other programs, and aerospace contracting entities, and high-tech entities, and really took it out of the oversight of the president and the Congress. I mean, it’s time people who think the world’s 6,000 years old and we rode dinosaurs bareback need to get a life. I had a junior Jet Propulsion Laboratory scientist say the reason that some of the information about the ancient structures on Mars has been withheld is that it would “collapse the foundations of all orthodox religions in the world.” To which I said: Great! I just wondered if you have a philosophy that you feel like, or a trajectory, that brought you from witness testimony to free energy, and if you could talk a little bit about that road. SG: Well, obviously the Disclosure Project involves many elements. One is the disclosure of the fact that we’re not alone. The other is that there are highly classified projects that have been run illegally for about 50, over 50 years, dealing with this. And, number three, you cannot say that this has been kept secret and it’s real without giving la raison d’etre... Why would something like this be kept secret? Now, in the early days it could be argued that, well, there were religious issues, that the people would panic at the idea that there was life in outer space... or that there were theological objections. And in fact these still exist.

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And that’s when it all “went south”and has been that way ever since. The reason for that is because, if you acknowledge that UFOs are real, the very next thing that any bona fide scientist or policy analyst is going to ask is: Well, how in the hell are they getting from one star system to another? And when that question is asked, it will be answered, because we have people on our team who can answer it in great detail. BR: Yeah, they’re not going around in rocket ships. KC: Oh, really? Okay. SG: And when that is answered – I’m trying to finish one thought here – when that is answered, you’re going to then see the end of oil, gas, coal, nuclear power, all of it. There’s a fivehundred-trillion-dollar asset base that they’re sitting on and protecting. Two or three hundred people in corporations in the world control half the wealth of the planet – the net worth of the planet. So the secrecy has to be understood within a larger macroeconomic geopolitical crisis where there’s been accretion of enormous power in the hands of relatively few people, and that this has gotten worse, not better, since the gilded age of the Industrial Revolution’s dawn. It’s actually worse now than it was in the time of Cornelius Vanderbilt and the Rockefellers. It’s worse now than it was. KC: Yeah, I definitely understand. SG: So that, I think is… And so our focus, as we’ve learned more and more about the reasons for the secrecy and the kinds of technologies that are extant, is that we have concluded that it’s very, very important to be able to bring out those energy systems – at least what I call the “Level One” systems, the ones that you could put on a box over here... something about the size of a coffee table. And I’ve seen these. Now, of course, seeing them and being able to bring them out and having people release them is another matter. But I’ve seen them. They extract energy from... some would call the zero-point energy field, some would call it the quantum vacuum flux field... whatever you want to call it. But in the fabric of space-time around us there’s enormous electromagnetic potential that can be touched into and brought out, and that is one of the practical implications of disclosure. I mean, there are many implications. One is informational, one is diplomatic contact, and one is the issue of the science and technology which could transform the planet, get us off of oil, stop global warming, end the crisis of the have and the have-nots and the poverty in the world. So that, I think, resonates with many people. There are a certain number of people who are interested in extraterrestrial life. There’s a much larger number of people who are concerned about the environment, energy crisis, the poverty in the world, etcetera. SG: Number one is CSETI, the Center for the Study of Extraterrestrial Intelligence, which is an interplanetary, interstellar, diplomatic initiative. That was the founding entity and it’s still the primary focus. The second is the Disclosure Project. That started as Project Starlight when I was briefing the CIA director and the Clintons and all these people. It then evolved into the Disclosure Project when Clinton said: I won’t do it because I’ll end up like Jack Kennedy. And the Congress people that we met with said: This is too big a fish for us to reel in. We’re not going to do it. So it kind of devolved onto our shoulders. Then that’s why we did in 2001 – to correct the date – the National Press Conference event and the Disclosure Project. And that still continues. We still continue to do that. Then the third is the OrionProject.org and the focus on trying to identify people who have an understanding of these new physics and sciences so we can bring out some of the practical applications. KC: Okay. SG: So those three things are going on with equal bore. We have teams of people working on all of them. KC: Oh, I see. SG: I’m sort of the coordinator or head of those three projects, but they’re interrelated. They’re actually three sides of a pyramid or whatever... not pyramid, but three sides of one entity and three facets that are interlocking. KC: I had a misunderstanding. Part of the reason is because… SG: No, that’s good that you brought it up because a lot of people do have that misunderstanding. KC: …we get a newsletter. The Orion Project, or however you refer to it, newsletter comes into my inbox and it is, you know, exclusively talking about more of the free energy side of things. So it’s a misconception, you know, but is out there, as you say. It’s very interesting to hear that you’re continuing these other… KC: So, is what you’re saying that what you were propelled towards is the latter? Because I know your emphasis is now really free energy, or it seems to be. SG: No it isn’t. No, no, no. KC: Well, it seems to be. Maybe I misunderstand… SG: You need to not mis-state my priorities. Let me be very clear on this. We have three programs going on with equal bore – equal bore – simultaneously.

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SG: Yeah. And people have to understand... You know people say: What about disclosure? I say: We have the testimony of 110 of these military witnesses out there. We have DVDs and other materials and books out there with thousands of pages of government documents. We have put this positive proof and testimony out there and that then has launched a worldwide disclosure movement in many, many countries, as you know. KC: Mm-hm. SG: At this point, when we started that endeavor, it was 30 or 40 percent of the public thought these were real. Now it’s 80 percent. Some countries – in polls that they did recently here in Spain it was 90-some percent – think that we’re not alone and ETs are real. So we feel that the big over-arching strategy of establishing that fact happened. What has not happened is, at least within America, an official acknowledgement of the issue and the ending of the secrecy. But this is due to a complex problem that I work on behind the scenes, for that’s where the problem is. The problem is within Majestic. And the problem is within conventional political leaders and the military-industrial complex. When we started this effort I had about a third of this Majestic group who thought what we were doing was something they would support. Now it’s 70 percent. Now the other 30 percent would probably like to see me dead. But the point is – and they’re vicious – there are 70 percent of them now who are really lining up. This includes the elements within Majestic that are in Europe, that are within the Masonics, that are within a lot of secret organizations that are fed up with the secrecy and know that we’re at the end of how far we can take this silly game of secrecy and secret power. So a lot of the work that I’ve been doing, and it has directly to do with disclosure, has to do with trying to fix that highly dysfunctional dynamic which cannot be ignored. You cannot pretend like those lions aren’t out lurking in the jungle. You don’t have to capitulate, but you have to try to educate them and give them another vision. One thing I say to the people is that people who are addicted to secret power, it’s... Kissinger once said power is the ultimate aphrodisiac... that then the secret power would be that on steroids and Viagra and every other thing – quite blunt. And so, one of the real issues becomes what can you… You can’t just take away. You have to give. So my job is to try to also give some of these leaders, both conventional leaders and people who are within these classified projects, a new vision – a vision that can guide the world out of its current direction, into a path of peace, safety, justice, free energy, and a whole new transformation of our civilization on this planet – very quickly. Because, you know, we’ve run out of time, in my opinion. I don’t think we have another 50 or 100 years to fritter away. KC: As it happens, neither do they. I mean, what we get from our secret witnesses and from people that are exposed to the Illuminati philosophy constantly is that our time is running out, in terms of… Like, we just heard from a secret witness – and I’m running this by you to hear whether this coincides with what you know – that there is around ten months left of food before it runs out on the planet, and that there’s another three to four years’ worth of oxygen. I mean, I don’t know if this is down to the minute or not, or whether it's more vague than it was stated to me, or more... You know, where you would fall in that category, in terms of how you understand that. SG: Let me say that there are a lot of… My father-in-law used to famously say: Paper does not refuse ink; and in the modern era, that the computer screen does not refuse digits. So, in other words, anything can be said. Now, one has to… My own assessment of that is that there are competing interests that try to use whatever axis that they have to provide a certain paradigm that is highly eschatological. The eschatological axis within Majestic is a very powerful one. I remember meeting with a member of a Royal Family in Europe back in the ‘90s and his entire purpose in providing funding to abduction researchers was to – and I know who they are, all the mainline ones – was so that they would put the information out to the public so that the public would learn to hate enough of the aliens so that we could have an interplanetary war, which would be the Armageddon that would precipitate the return of Christ. KC: Yeah, we’ve heard this. SG: Now, this was a very specific Opus Dei perspective and that is really what is driving… It’s like Ahmadinejad in Iran saying that, well, it’d be okay if we went to nuclear war with Israelbecause that would force this Twelfth Imam, which is their return of their Christ, to return to Iran. KC: Sure. SG: So this eschatological end the world perspective is… KC: So you’re actually saying... Just to cut to the chase here, you’re saying that this man’s testimony, to what I just said about ten months and four years, is basically him being programmed by the controllers, in a certain sense. SG: Well, it’s “through a glass dimly”. In other words, yes, we’re headed for a crisis. Yes, we’re headed towards a hiatus, can I call it that, in the situation.

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But what they don’t understand is that it is the end of one era and the opening of another. It isn’t the end of life on Earth. It is not going to be the end of the human race on this planet. These are all… KC: We would certainly agree with that. SG: This is… And so the conflation of certain misinterpreted spiritual traditions, whether it’s from the Book of Revelations or elsewhere, or the Mayan calendar and 2012, has created this sort of eschatological juggernaut – which is very Scientological, it’s very Majestic, and it has a lot of underpinnings within the philosophy of why the secrecy has continued on like it is. This is one major axis of why the secrecy is continuing. The other one is the technological and money and control, the macroeconomic control of the planet. My point to people is that... For example, now I’ve been doing this for 19 years and I’ve had… You know, if you brief the CIA director you’ve had some good access, and that’s 16 years ago. My family put the first man on the Moon. So I have had access to people within classified projects for a lot of my life. For example – and I know that we’re going to probably disagree on this because I saw what you wrote on your blog after my talk last night – there are people who have been exposed to what they wanted them to see. This Bob Lazar was one that they then allow to speak out. Now the question is: What’s the agenda behind that allowing? I have had more than a dozen people who have worked in facilities in Dulce and in Pine Gap in Australia and other places where they have actually been growing the Gray and Reptilian species that people think are ETs. And the people who’ve been in the projects think they’re working alongside an alien – and they’re not. They’re absolutely what are called nano-bio-machines and they are Programmed Life Forms. There is no question that that is going on. So the larger question becomes: If someone comes up to you with just an empirical observation, what is it they’re seeing? Now I’m going to cross over into something even more controversial. We have some people at Lockheed, and another program... I can’t say where it is but it’s in the South in an underground facility, and its chief scientist is someone I knew very well. They have developed electromagnetic systems where they can put someone into a state, and they can go into – and this gets into a cosmological, complex discussion now – a lower astral, or denser astral field. And some would call this demonic. They can actually see beings and creatures there and bring them in three-dimensional and materialize in flesh and blood – through these electronics. So a lot of these things that people are seeing have nothing to do with interstellar and extraterrestrial. So when I’m talking... when I talk about the interstellar civilizations that also have transdimensional capability... You can’t go through interstellar space at the speed of light or less. KC: Right. SG: But there’s a cosmological indigestion happening within Ufology and disclosure that I find disturbing because people are conflating interdimensional with extraterrestrial with PLFs, that are Programmed Life Forms, man-made. All of this is being put together as if it is one thing, and it isn’t. It’s, unfortunately, much more complex than this. This is exactly why… BR: We would agree with that as well. It’s very complex. SG: This is why, when Martin Cannon, back in the late ‘80s, put together a 2000-footnoted paper and collection proving the military-human involvement with abductions, and that the creatures they were using were not ET... It wasn’t some alliance between Majestic and these ETs. The ETs wouldn’t bother with ’em. Now, I say they’re aliens, but they’re not extraterrestrials. Okay? And now we’re getting into… and people say I’m being cheeky. I’m not, because these are very bizarre creatures. Some of them even… I’m going to take it one step further. You’ve all heard of Roswell, and you’ve all heard that there have been a number of electromagnetic weapons systems that have targeted and knocked down interstellar vehicles... not at a great kill rate in the early days. – I hate to use the words kill rate. It’s terrible. – But it’s become more and more efficient since SDI, and since the ‘90s, particularly in the last five or ten years. What happened, however, in the early days... They had enough crude stuff. And of course, we had things like the Philadelphia Experiment – which did not happen in Philadelphia. It happened in Rhode Island. That was just a cover story... that’s another whole discussion. But that was in the ‘40s. So there were very advanced electronics that were already being used. And by the time the extraterrestrials showed up when we were detonating nuclear weapons, we were able, at Roswell, at our only nuclear bomb squadron, to have one of these weapons and a radar dome, or configuration, that caused the two of those to crash. KC: Right. SG: There were bodies on that. Some of them were living, and I have a witness who actually handled one of the living ones as late as 1950-’51 here in Virginia not far from where I live, at Camp Pearry [spells] P-E-A-R-R-Y, a very top secret facility. [Ed note: Greer means Camp Peary, Army experimental training center near Williamsburg]

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Now, what’s interesting is that that genetic material from some of those bodies has subsequently been cloned, from a number of different species. Now, you know, I have a daughter with a Ph.D. in neuroscience and genetics from the most prestigious university in the world. What I’ve done is, I’ve looked at this, sort of... What the current state of neuroscience is in the non-classified world is that if they wished to, they could take cells from a human and clone them. Absolutely. BR: Sure. KC: Yes. Congress, to interplanetary war, which is the World War III they want. KC: Right. SG: So most of retail UFOlogy – I would say 90-plus percent of it – has embedded within it this message and this information and these images for the purpose of Majestic. Now, I think people do it completely innocently because… KC: Right. BR: I want to ask a direct question here because this is personal, and I haven’t said this on camera before. So here we go. I’m an abductee, and I’m a mountaineer. I was abducted out of my tent in December, 1981 in the Himalayas on the slopes of Makalu, which is in Nepal on the border of Tibet. And that wasn’t done by the military. This was done in December, in winter in the Himalayas. I was taken out of my tent, floated over the glacier in the middle of the night and it was minus 40 degrees. This wasn’t the military who were doing that. They couldn’t do that. SG: I’m not saying all contact has been military. I’m being very specific. I’m saying that there’s enough… Let’s look: If you have a nugget of gold and you dump a whole bunch of fool’s gold on it… SG: Now, imagine what has existed within the classified world, because these were the people who were the… These were the humans who were the spiritual descendants of Mengele and the Nazis, Wernher von Braun and that whole cell. KC: You’re talking about the scientists. SG: The scientists who were brought into these classified projects, and who were at the foundation of the CIA and the early space program. So the highly compartmented programs that deal with this issue… KC: Yeah. SG: And this is the thing: Everyone talks about antigravity and this and that, but what they forget are the enormous advances that have happened between the early ‘40s and now in genetics and bioengineering and neuroscience. Those have gone into application where they now have created these creatures that people think: Oh, that’s an extraterrestrial. I say: It is NOT an extraterrestrial! So the whole thing has deliberately become confused so that people will make an assessment that there are the good aliens and the bad aliens. And if we step into that “cowboys and Indians” mindset, they can then divide the human race into another war footing that will fulfill the Majestic plan that was hatched in the ‘50s, that will take us, as Douglas McArthur said in his last address to the BR: Sure. SG: …and no one’s doing an assay. And the question becomes: What part of it is extraterrestrial, what part of it is interdimensional… KC: Exactly. SG: …what part of it is manmade? And what part of it is some mixed-up, where people...? And here I’ll make it a little more complicated. There are people who’ve had ET contact and when these classified projects find out about it they will then target them for an abduction so that their paradigm and their perception of this will become confused. This is… KC: Okay. I think what happens here... We are aware of this level that you’re talking about. We’re aware of all these different dimensions because we’ve basically... (“dimensions” – not dimensions, but “dimensions of this argument”) ... because we’ve been exposed to these levels by different secret witnesses, okay? But, and I think if we have a disagreement, what it is, is... I don’t know if it’s completely, you know? It’s not an either/or question. It’s a how much? It’s a percentage, as you say. It’s going to be: Is there, sometime, abductions that are ETrelated that are real ET-related – okay? – and handled by a certain group of ETs? Is there a MILAB element to it, and is that maybe the largest portion? Highly probable. Okay?

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But is it exclusively that there are only good ETs? I think that when you extrapolate that, that’s where I have a problem. SG: I think the problem is with the caricature of the… KC: Because I think that that’s, philosophically, a problem of a limited way of looking at reality. SG: No, I think the problem is a Manichaen view that has to divide entire species into good and bad. This is precisely what Hitler did when he would say, you know, the Jews are bad and they’re dirty and they’re this… I think we have to be extremely careful… KC: I don’t think it’s necessary to do that quite so much as it is in terms of the overall… I mean, were talking universes. Okay? We’re talking multiple species out there that go beyond this solar system, certainly… SG: Oh, I’m very aware of that. KC: …and we’re talking about life in general, okay, so… SG: But the point is that… KC: I don’t think we can sit here and make a statement like what I heard you say on stage yesterday, which was: There are no bad ETs. I mean, how absurd. SG: No, I think you could say that there is no evidence that the planet has been invaded by hostile – is the word I used – civilizations that have an intent… KC: So far, to you; that you have not… In other words… SG: You can’t prove a negative. This is axiomatic. What I can say… KC: Well, then we have a problem. [laughs] SG: You can’t prove a negative. KC: In other words, that’s the point. SG: No, no. But it is the point. You can’t prove a negative, but what you can do is go with the evidence that you do have. One of the sets of evidence we have through CSETI, which has gone around the world and made contact all over the world with thousands of people... We have never had a harmful event happen. We have never had anything resembling anything that has frightened or harmed anyone on the contact team. On the other hand, we have had members of our team that have been targeted with these psychotronic-related military-type abduction events, including myself. KC: Right. I agree. SG: So, what I have to go with is the evidence that I have. I also know that there’s the stage craft, to use an Institute for Strategic Studies document that I have, that talks about the stage craft of abductions because of its psychological warfare value to the agenda of an Us versus Them Manichaen worldview that would redound to the benefit of the military-industrial complex. So this is very circular. I think that what I’m saying is one has to be very careful if you’re going to be involved with disclosure and contact in saying: This group is bad, this group is good. We’re good and we’re bad. And we’re slipping right back into the Israelis versus the Palestinians, the Jews versus the Christians, the Muslims versus the whatever… KC: Okay, but this is not where we’re going… SG: But if you say that there are bad aliens that are working with a secret government, then… KC: The language is actually Service to Others versus Service to Self, and that, in itself, is also a matter of degree. So it’s not really good. Anyone…

SG: But you can’t judge. See, here’s the problem. KC: Well, none of us can. That’s my whole point here. SG: Well, that’s my whole point! KC: It’s a matter of degree. SG: And I think before one starts going down the path of The sky is falling! and we start unleashing this Manichaen worldview of Here are the ones that are Service to Others and here’s the ones that are selfish... I would say that there’s some enlightened selfinterest everywhere. KC: Right. SG: And let’s back this up just a little further. Let’s say that these civilizations… KC: Especially by the invaders. SG: By the who? KC: [laughs] If there’s an invasion race, then enlightened selfinterest is going to be the predominant model by which they’re going to operate, right? SG: And, you know, you’re entitled to that. I think you’re… KC: I’m positing. All I’m doing here… Look, until it actually happens in black and white…

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SG: Look, where have they invaded? Who has been invaded? And here’s the… KC: There is evidence. In other words, you can get evidence on both sides of the question. SG: Well, but to characterize it as an invasion... What if there is an interstellar group that have different… Different ones of them have different functions. For example… KC: Right. SG: Okay, I’m going to take this a little further. There’s one group that has a very specific function. You might call this the Noah’s Ark function, that this planet is under tremendous environmental stress. We’re losing thousands of species and plants and animals. I have spoken with people about the landing in Provence, of this ET craft in a lavender field, and there were these little ETs out picking lavender. It sounds hilarious. What were they doing? BR: Just like the movie, yeah. SG: Absolutely happened and it left physical trace. Could there be a human genome project that’s trying to protect the human genome and a genome project for Gaia, the Earth? There could be all kinds of things going on that are beyond our ability to say: That’s happening by people who are selfish and invaders. And that’s happening by people who are the good ones. KC: Exactly. Yes. SG: I think that that sort of dichotomy and dualism that I read on your blog is the exact script that Majestic would want people to buy into to support interplanetary war. I think that there is another… KC: Yeah. I think that the paranoia over interplanetary war per se, and that scenario, is laudable, okay. In a certain way we understand that you’re coming from a heartfelt perspective when you talk about Let’s not get caught up in polarities. Okay? But what we don’t want to do is analyze this scene, this scenario, and the realities that are out there, and say we’ve come to definitive statement where we can say: There are only good ETs. Now, let me tell you why that’s dangerous as well, because what that does is leave people, humans, and humanity possibly in general, in a vulnerable position. They are then going around following ET like the Pied Piper down whatever road they’re taken. SG: No. I’ve always said, and unfortunately you haven’t read my books and things, but… KC: Actually I have. SG: I didn’t deify them and I didn’t demonize them. My point is that we’re living in a universe together; we’re going to have to live together in that universe. KC: Absolutely! SG: The solutions are not going to be name-calling and We’re better than you are and Those are in service to self and Those in service to others and this whole thing. I think we have to look at this from a much larger picture, and that is not only Earth, but the whole cosmos is going through a quantum moment. KC: Right, that’s true. SG: It is not just an Earth moment. It’s a universal moment… KC: Okay. SG: …the hallmark of which is universal peace, the hallmark of which is that. And so it is also true... KC: The ideal would be... SG: ...that interstellar civilizations are not allowed to leave their biosphere until they have become in agreement for peace. Now, and… KC: That’s an assumption. SG: This has been proven, because if these civilizations… KC: No way. Nothing’s been proven on this planet to that degree of sophistication. There’s no way… SG: Well, if they were here and they were invading and they were hostile, they would not have waited for us to have the kind of weapons we have today. They would have absolutely shut this civilization down in 1945. KC: On the contrary... I mean, we have to actually get into a whole socio-political look at what it is to be an ET space-faring culture in search of planetoids or planets, and building new environments, and then what you do with them. SG: Well, I have made it very clear that there are two things that are equally dangerous – the deification of these visitors or the demonization of them. KC: Exactly. SG: Both are equally dangerous, and I’ve said this since the ‘90s. KC: Then we’re in agreement. But what you said on stage was not that.

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In a sense, you can actually take the Earth as a microcosm and you can look at How did it go when we took over different continents here… SG: Yeah. But see, this is the whole problem… KC: …and what was the model? Then we get to space and we also have to figure… SG: This is a huge problem. You’re engaging in an anthropocentric projection onto interstellar civilizations… KC: As above, so below. In other words… SG: Well, so in your belief. But I think that you’re completely involved in this. KC: All I’m saying is that we’re part of the universe and you can’t eliminate... And there’s no definitive decision on this part. You’re making absolute statements. SG: Do you think our classified projects have traveled interstellar yet? BR: Let’s hear where this goes. I’m interested. BR: Yes. KC: Absolutely. SG: They have not. KC: We’ve got evidence that they have. SG: Well, I’d love to see you prove it. BR: We don’t have evidence but in May 2001 you said that they have superluminal capability. SG: Yes. BR: What have we done? Gone to Pluto with superluminal ability? It takes five seconds. SG: No, because they’re not allowed to use it. Now here’s something that… There is a quarantine on this planet until we become peaceful. This is why, if you look at… KC: There is a philosophy that there’s a quarantine. SG: No. There is. If you look at even what Neil Armstrong said after… KC: Why? Because an ET told you? I mean, really, let’s get down to it. We’re all in communication with different races… SG: Well, let’s get back to the cover-up with what Neil Armstrong was heard saying. It’s in Timothy Good’s book, Above Top Secret. You can read it. SG: He said that when... We were basically warned off the Moon, and that’s why we didn’t continue to go. KC: And I believe these warnings exist. There has been evidence that we’re warned off Mars because certain craft have never made it there, have been shot down, have disappeared, have had technical problems that haven’t been explained by NASA. SG: Well, and one can put a xenophobic spin on that. Or one can say that perhaps there’s a wiser cosmic order that says that until a civilization reaches a certain amount of civility for the civilization, and peace, they are not allowed to travel amongst the stars; that the entry ticket is peace. And I think that is the situation. KC: Okay, I understand that’s your philosophy. SG: No, it’s not my philosophy. It’s what the evidence… This is not how I started out. This is what I have found to be true from many different witness testimonies and the observation overall and accurate… KC: But our witness testimony would contradict that. So what do you do with that? SG: Well, fine, I’d like to speak to them. KC: Yeah, absolutely, and maybe we’ll have to compare notes. You know, really, to be honest with you, this is valuable, because what happens, for better or for worse, is we’re both out there. We’re both investigating these questions and they are open questions. Actually, the information has… SG: They are. But I think it’s rather unhelpful that you go onto a blog and say that what I’m saying and doing is sinister. BR: Yep. SG: And I’m sure you have. You’ve read it. KC: A mind-controlled astronaut is what you’re talking about. You’re gonna give me testimony from a mind-controlled astronaut. SG: No, no.

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KC: But I said it was… SG: I think that, you know, I have never said anything harmful about you. KC: It’s insidious. The reason it’s insidious is because… SG: Insidious and this and that. KC: …it leaves the Earth vulnerable… SG: And I think this is exactly the kind of thing, and I’m going to absolutely... You know, you invited me to an interview. KC: Sure. SG: I’m going to provide an interview. If you want to over-talk everything I say, you can over-talk what I say. KC: You over-talk us. SG: But I am telling you that… But I’m being interviewed. So the point is… KC: [laughs] It’s mutual. See, you don’t know this and I’m sorry we didn’t have time to tell you our philosophy of how we conduct an interview, but I did kind of warn you… SG: You obviously want to have a debate. KC: … that we have differences of opinions. SG: We have differences of opinion, and that’s fine, but I think the most dangerous thing we can do is with... See, everyone has partial information. KC: Right. SG: To start making sweeping judgments that are negative... And you can say: Well, it’s not negative. We’re just saying that they’re in service to self versus service to others, and couch it however you wish. But if we go down that path, we’re already creating a new cosmological Us versus Them, which is the absolute recapitulation of the mistake on Earth for the last 10,000 years. I think we can do better than that. I think we have to learn to look at these things… And let’s say that everything that your philosophy and how you’re viewing this is correct. If it’s a hundred percent correct, I would still say the path of wisdom is education… KC: Absolutely. SG: …elucidation, engagement peacefully, higher states of consciousness – all of this. BR: Yep. I think that actually we’re going to go through a quantum transformation that’s global and interplanetary that will make this quite clear in the coming years, if not months. I think that time is getting very short for how much more time we’re going to have before there’s this large transformation. And I think the other thing is to say... I would say to people: If there is a civilization that is here for their own purely selfish interest, and have not a shred of altruism or concern for humanity or Earth, those are the beings I would want to meet with first. And I’ve said this for years, because you need a diplomatic initiative to North Korea and Iran and China more than you do to Great Britain, if you’re an American, let’s say. So this is… KC: Absolutely, but you can’t be in denial of the potentiality… SG: There’s no denial here. I’m not some sort of Pollyanna fool. And that characterization of me being in denial... I’m not in denial about anything. I’m just saying that... KC: Well, I… Wait, wait, wait. You’re personalizing this in a way that it’s not personal. In other words, what I said is I didn’t direct it at you. I said… SG: Jan can give me what you wrote on the blog. I’ll show you what you wrote on the blog. But if we go down that path, what we’ll be doing is that we’ll be dragging the baggage of the old era into this pivotal time, this embryonic time, where we’re trying to transition to a new civilization – the hallmark of which will be universal peace. I don’t think we’re going to be going into a period of time of competing planetary systems having wars. I think that this is – all of that – is the Scientological view and it’s many of the eschatologists’ view. SG: I don’t think it consists in characterizations, name-calling, what have you. Now that goes on on the diplomatic front and between nations on the Earth, and I think we have to be very careful not to engage in that sort of anthropocentric projection of the current state of duality of the human condition on these visitors. I think it may be much more difficult to make those kinds of assessments.

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KC: Excuse me. I said that what you said on stage was insidious. And it’s insidious because what it does is leave, again, humanity… Look, let’s both agree here… BR: It’s a real misdirect. KC: That’s the other discussion. We can talk… That’s spiritual. KC: We both love… SG: It is spiritual, and this is the chief purpose of CSETI. BR: It’s a real misdirect. SG: [to Bill] [unclear] BR: It’s a misdirect. KC: We both love humanity. We’re both here to make sure that we make it through this next era. Okay? SG: Right. KC: And we can say we have a common goal, in that sense. SG: Absolutely. KC: When I say it’s insidious, I’m not saying you personally are insidious. What I’m saying is what you’re saying leads to an insidious state of affairs if people out there were to become disarmed and completely vulnerable and allow, like I said, ET to take over “the sovereignty” of the Earth and of humanity to develop… SG: This is not at all… I never suggested that. KC: … to develop on its own. But there are implications to what you’re saying when you say: All ETs are good. SG: Your implications about that. KC: When we’re using the words good and bad... Let’s be honest, we’re using the words good and bad because we have to use language and we’re just using it in a simplistic way… SG: Right. KC: … to cover a very wide spectrum of what it means to be good, philosophically, and what it means to be bad, philosophically. We’re not naïve, and we’re not looking at this in a black and white way, so let’s not go there. SG: We have to be very careful because that slips into that very quickly. That language slips into that paradigm very, very quickly. KC: Sure, and it could be misleading. I appreciate that. SG: And I think it is misleading, but I think the other thing, that it’s also very dangerous. I’m not at all suggesting that humans disarm. My whole message is about humans empowering, not only in consciousness, but in organization and every other way. KC: Knowledge is to question constantly. What we’re not positing is answers here, so much as Let’s keep exploring. And at no point do we decide that “all ETs are good” because suddenly we have a paradigm that says: You cannot leave the planet beyond a certain point unless you believe in “peace” and unless you have obtained a certain level of civilization. That means that you are there for good, all good, and therefore better than humanity. There’s sort of an implication under there. SG: And your alternative would be what? Conflict with the ones who aren’t good? BR: No, that’s polarizing it in a way that we are not. KC: It’s a model of universes, multi dimensions, that is more complex. BR: You’re polarizing it. SG: What’s your answer then? BR: We agree. SG: And moreover, you said that we need to be armed. Well, yeah. Armed with what? I think that knowledge…

BR: My answer… SG: What’s your answer to these ones that are in service to self? KC: It’s complex. It’s more complex. SG: The ones that you see… KC: There are no limits. Go ahead. BR: Okay. My response to this is to agree with you that it’s a very complex situation and there may be alien agendas that we are not able to understand. Just like the farmer can understand

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what the farmer’s doing, but not what the veterinary surgeon is doing. You know? If you approach a wild animal because you want to give it some food, the wild animal’s going to run away because it doesn’t trust the human. SG: Right. BR: There are all sorts of aspects to this that we may be very presumptuous in our ability to understand. But my point is that it’s dangerous... And I’m not even saying that it’s a deliberate misdirect, but I do believe it was... Personally I believe it was a misdirect to lead people to believe, with the authority position that you have in the UFO community, that if anybody feels that all… that anything other than All ETs are friendly, then they’re somehow working on the side of the Illuminati! That’s a polarization that’s not true. We don’t agree with that – at all! We think that there’s a big maybe category, where for sure some ETs are friendly. KC: Absolutely. BR: I’ve met some of them, personally. SG: Right. BR: I don’t even think that my abduction was ill-intended. I think that this was a program in some way for something, which I’m doing now. You may have had a parallel experience. But I don’t know what’s happening. I’m willing to roll with that wave, because I don’t think they intended any harm to me. But they sure as hell weren’t military. That wasn’t a MILAB operation. SG: No, but my point is… Here’s what I said. BR: But we don’t know these things. We don’t know… SG: My point is that there’s no evidence that these visitors are hostile… BR: Sorry. Give me 20 seconds, yeah? KC: Actually, there is… BR: But we don’t know – hang on. We don’t know, but neither do you. And you shouldn’t say that you know and you don’t. That’s my point. SG: Well, actually… KC: [unclear] KC: Yeah, let’s get to the place where, you know, the fact is… SG: Let me finish. SG: I’m saying there is… BR: …irresponsible because he doesn’t know, and you’re presuming to know… KC: Exactly. BR: …and you’re capitalizing on your authority position in the UFO community and that’s irresponsible. You’re leading people who are feeding off your words, and you shouldn’t do that. You should be very… SG: No, I am totally not irresponsible. I’m trying to do this very responsibly… BR: Okay. SG: …because I know what’s at stake if people are lead into the path of panic and polarity and duality. BR: But we’re not doing that. SG: And this is absolutely the impression… BR: And you’re giving the opposite impression, saying: Don’t worry about a damn thing. SG: No, no. BR: And that’s equally bad! SG: I’m not saying Don’t worry. I’m saying… Let me tell you… BR: Okay. KC: Why not just enlighten awareness. SG: Can I answer any of this? BR: Do it. Go on. SG: It’s too long… KC: [laughs] I think you’re answering it. I think you’ve been answering, but go ahead. SG: Is that? Because no, you haven’t heard my answer yet. My answer is what I consistently say, is that there’s no evidence that they’re hostile and that we have to be in an armed position, in a Star Wars SDI position. And that dealing with it in that way is the last thing that we should be doing. BR: I agree with that. SG: So, whether or not…

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BR: Wait a minute. SG: I cannot say that there is… You can’t prove a negative. I’ve said this three or four times. I can go with the evidence I’ve seen. Moreover, I can go with the experience of 19 years, of thousands of people in CSETI expeditions and experiences we’ve had with these visitors... none of which has been fearsome, negative, invasive. None of this sort. The other point that I have to make is that if it were true that there were civilizations that had self-interest and were going around the cosmos colonizing and invading different worlds or planetoids or what have you, then I would say that those are the civilizations we need to find a way to engage. And it isn’t going to be down the barrel of a laser weapon or an electromagnetic pulse weapon. BR: True. KC: I think you’re making a jump. I mean, I have to say here... Is it a coincidence that the sort of Pandora’s Box that opened when we started detonating thermonuclear weapons was because it was having an effect beyond just the Earth, transdimensionally? Is it possible that the trajectory they saw our civilization going on, these ones you think may not have our best interest in heart, may have seen us going on a trajectory that, if it continued on that trajectory would lead to us going into their neighborhood with weapons of mass destruction, with our unchecked simian tendency towards war-making and what have you? So, I’m trying to say let’s look at this for just a moment through another perspective that’s non-human, if we can. It’s very difficult because we are human. I think… KC: I met Robert Solace. He watched the craft fly over, okay? In Montana, the missile silos, and turn them off. I’ve talked with him in his house about these experiences, as you have in your Disclosure Project… SG: Right. KC: We’re totally on the same page on that. There’s no doubt whatsoever that they came and they are absolutely adamant that this technology not go... first of all, not happen on the Earth… SG: It would destroy the planet. KC: …but second of all, not go beyond. It’s actually interdimensional in its destructive ability. SG: Correct. Yes, I’m very aware of this. KC: So, I think we’re in agreement on that. SG: In other words, what kind of hornets nest did we pick? And therefore, what kind of provisions and things are going on as a consequence of that? So, I always say… You know, everyone starts getting into the, oh, This alien agenda and That alien agenda, and I would say: What would be more constructive is that the human agenda be fixed. That we learn to live on this planet and fix… SG: Okay, but let’s say that’s true. I don’t think it is true but maybe I’m wrong. It’s possible, I mean. I don’t pretend to know everything. Maybe I’m wrong. But let’s say that’s true. What might have instigated that? Now, let’s go back 100 years. We’re in horse-and-buggies and rifles and things. My grandmother, born in the late 1800’s postreconstruction South, saw her son design the Lunar Module, put the first man on the Moon, and now her grandson doing what I’m doing. We’ve gone from horse and buggies to the capacity for interstellar travel and antigrav, and dematerialization and transdimensional technologies, from gunpowder and the early stages of the Industrial Revolution. At the same time we’ve gone from rifles and machine guns to thermonuclear weapons.

SG: Let me finish. I haven’t finished my answer. KC: You’re making a jump to Star Wars from us just saying there may be ETs with some self-interest guiding their paradigm. SG: Well, but let’s take a step back from humanity for a moment and look at this through the eyes… Let’s say there is a civilization like you’re describing. BR: What civilization are we describing? SG: The ones that you think are not in service to others, but in service to self. BR: We think they may have agendas that are not necessarily in our interest. That’s not a polarized position. KC: Right. SG: Right. But let’s say that’s the case… KC: And it doesn’t mean we want to shoot them in the head, either.

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KC: No disagreement there. SG: …fix our own home. Create a peaceful civilization rather than worrying about other motives from other civilizations. Here’s what I predict. I predict that if we were to do that, and learn to live together without clubbing each other over the head and killing each other on this planet – as below, so above – that we would see a change, perhaps, in the cosmic order for that reason. So, rather than engaging in debates and speculation about the agenda, perhaps harmful aliens and this and that, I would say why don’t we create a civilization of abundance and of peace and of enlightenment here? And go into space with that intent and see what the response to the cosmos will be then? It may be the response that we’re getting now is a directly proportional response, karmically and otherwise, to what we have been doing to each other. KC: Absolutely. We are attracting... like a mirror. SG: You know, in the last 100 years we have killed 160-million of our own fellow humans. I think that if you reflect on that... And I was seeing an interview with Robert McNamara towards the end of his life where he was reflecting on the terrible mistakes he made in Vietnam and the other wars of the 20th century. What I think is that there needs to be a sort of Let’s look at ourselves and I think that many times… KC: But let’s not do that to the exclusion. It’s not an either/or question. In other words, what I hear you saying is let’s be a little more sort of Earth-centered in our view of reality and not worry about the agendas of those other beings out there. And let’s concentrate on building our nest and making it a good, healthy place, and playing nice with each other. There’s no disagreement with that. SG: No, it’s not either/or. I’m saying let’s do that. That’s why we’re doing the OrionProject.org. KC: We have absolutely no disagreement with that. SG: That’s why we’re also doing the contact, diplomatic effort. And we invite all these… We always invite all these civilizations to make contact. KC: But actually you’re assuming that there’s no intervention going on. And I think this is getting to the root of the question. In other words, do you know about screen memories? You must know about them if you’ve been as deep as you have. SG: Well, yeah, the psychotronic programs that have been in existence for many years… KC: All right, because you obviously have a positive view of all your interaction. And, you know, not to get personal on this level, but to say that if I meet a being who thinks they’ve only had positive interactions with certain ETs or animals or whoever they are, then I might look at that person and I might question... This is my issue – I might question whether or not that person really knows what they’re having because they might be screenmemoried and they might actually be having some negative interaction in there and not know it. Now, obviously I’m not… SG: So you’re back to the positive and the negative and the polarity… KC: But we live in a 3-D level and we are moving to the 4-D… SG: And see, this is... The whole point is that… KC: Actually it goes beyond that, so don’t interrupt me, because I want to finish here. SG: I don’t think it’s that simple. KC: Absolutely, and we agree on that. It is very complex. SG: Right. KC: We’re multidimensional beings. We live on lots of different levels. We are spiritual beings first… SG: Mm-hm. KC: …and humans second. Okay? We actually are just inhabiting these human bodies at the moment, in my view. Okay? SG: Correct. Short-term lease. KC: I have had a number of Samadhi experiences myself, so I totally know where you’re coming from with that, and I appreciate that. But that doesn’t change the fact that it is extremely complex, this picture of what’s going on here. None of us have all the answers, and to make definitive statements that we feel you are making out there – okay? – and to actually limit... to put blinders on to such an effect to say: There is nothing to be worried about, at all, humans out there. Just worry about your own little playground. And meanwhile, out there, are... Because I got to tell you, if you’re aware of psychic and you have psychic perception, you know there are entities that do not have bodies that are negatively oriented. Now “negative,” again, becomes a judgment. And how do you want to call negative… SG: Those aren’t extraterrestrial. Now you’re confusing the whole cosmological… KC: I’m not confused. On the contrary, I’m using an example… SG: I’ve never denied that there were those kind of entities... KC: Okay. Fine.

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SG: But those aren’t extraterrestrial, physical… Some of this may be definitional. KC: I know that. Let’s extrapolate from there. I’m simply focusing, right now, on what you might term a “negative entity” that doesn’t have a body, and I’m saying… Or you could even say fire. Now, fire is an entity. It’s a non-… It doesn’t have a body, and yet it has a power, it can create itself. So, in a sense you could say it’s negatively oriented if it burns your house, but on the other hand it could keep you warm. So by the same token we could find entities that are in physical bodies – again, spirits having a physical experience – which could be an ET, it could be us… it’s so multidimensional. Don’t you see what I’m saying? SG: Oh, absolutely. KC: In other words, if they are spirits as we are spirits, then they can be moved by the positive polarity as they could be pulled by the negative polarity. It could look, from the dimension of being in this 3-D world that we’re inhabiting called Earth, in this human body, in this experience, and how they impact us, could in fact be ultimately negative to our growth cycle. That is, in fact, something that has been posited as a very real possibility. SG: Well, anything is possible. I mean, obviously. I just don’t see the evidence for that. I do see the evidence for humans killing each other. I do see weapons in space where we have targeted these visitors… KC: I appreciate that. SG: … and all of that. So, I mean, we can talk in circles all day on this. KC: Yeah. Sure. SG: My position is that there has not been an action against the Earth and humanity from an extraterrestrial, interstellar, physical civilization to here, that I think would cause us to want to have a sort of armed conflict response. Now, are there experiences people have that they interpret as negative? Absolutely. I’m going to tell you something, and people don’t like to hear this, but in a major trauma case, if a child comes in and there’s no time for anesthesia, and I have to put a chest tube in the chest wall of that child, I must look like the most horrible monster and devil that ever lived. My motive is to save that child. My motive is to help that child. But to anyone seeing it who would just walk in from another planet or off the street, they’d go: What is that monstrous doctor… or What are they doing? BR: You’re doing what you must. SG: And what my motive is that I’ve got five minutes or less to save that child’s life. So, all I’m saying is that this sort of anthropocentric… KC: It’s a matter of perspective. SG: … and it is a matter of perspective. I think that’s why I prefer to be cautious, cautiously optimistic, put out a positive view on how we should be interacting with this thing. It is not irresponsible. I am not insidious. I think that these sort of characterizations are highly offensive, as I have never attacked you folks publicly. I found I was attacked on your blog today. It was unfortunate. But my perspective, I want to be very clear… KC: No, no. Your philosophy was attacked. You were not attacked.

SG: Yeah, well, whatever. KC: Actually, you were complimented. SG: But I just have to say that that is why we’re wanting to be cautious because it is so easy for humans… I mean, look what happened after 9/11. It is so easy for humans to take shreds of information and then go on a war footing or go on a conflict footing. BR: We agree with you. SG: This is the inherent danger of some of the things that you’re saying, is it can shove humanity. KC: Yeah, okay. I understand. SG: Okay. And there’s one thing to have a private conversation about speculating about the motives and the agendas of the aliens, but when you start talking to the people of the planet about this and you start putting out… and positing that there are these – and to use your word, and the polarity negative and this and that – this would throw the planet into… And it would also throw the planet completely into the camp of Majestic, who for years has been trying to... and has also taken presidents aside, like Reagan, and tried to convince them of exactly the argument you’re making so that he would spend

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hundreds of billions of dollars on SDI. I think this gets into serious policy issues. KC: Yeah, yeah. SG: Okay. And I have responsibilities here that you’re not aware of. So to say I’m irresponsible... You don’t know what my responsibilities are. And therefore… BR: I want to… SG: No you do not! What I’m saying here is that… BR: I want to ask a question which is very… I want to take this back, now. Just wait a second, let’s cool down and I want to just make an analogy. Now, an analogy that I sometimes use, and it usually results in nods of agreement, is that we’re like fisherman on a South Sea island, in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, having believed for generations that we’re the only people in the whole world. We’re sitting around a campfire cooking our fish and we’re trying to figure out: That big metal ship on the horizon, what do they want with us? That metal bird that keeps on circling around our island, what are they doing? Is it real? And Did you see it? And all this kind of stuff. We’re trying to figure out the intentions, assuming that we believe in their existence, of these other beings that we’re suddenly starting to realize might exist in our universe on this little tropical island. Now, the problem is that if we really do look at this as a human situation which is quite real, really, what experience do we have as South Sea island fishermen to figure out – Maybe they want to cut our trees down. Maybe they want to save us because the sea level’s rising and they want to take us to another island. Maybe they want our minerals, or maybe they want to convert us to Christianity. Maybe they want to eat us, kill us, or maybe they want to make friends. How do we know? The danger is – and this is a question now – the danger is that I’m here around this campfire with you guys and I hear you saying those other men in those big ships and those metal birds must be friendly. And I’m saying: Wait a minute. We need to be a little bit careful here because, actually, even though we do get into fights on this little island every now and then, how do we know we can trust them? Maybe we can, maybe we can’t. What’s your experience? That’s an attempt to characterize, by analogy, how complex this is. That’s why I said that it was irresponsible, as I would do if I was around that campfire, as an elder of this community saying: They’ve got to be friendly, we’ve got to trust them, you’ve got to trust them. This is what the Incas said about the Conquistadors! SG: Yes, but your metaphor is, again, an anthropocentric projection onto something that I think is non-applicable. I think that, in addition to that, our... I keep coming back to this. Not only in my personal experience, but the experience of hundreds of people, thousands of people, that we have had involved with our diplomatic contact programs, have not had any of this sort of experience that would lend us to believe that there are civilizations that are hostile to the Earth and to humanity. On the other hand, I have had many sources describe to me the Programmed Life Forms, the military involvement with hoaxing abductions, a false-flag operation to create an alien threat that we can unite against. So I have to go on the knowledge and the experience I have, and it isn’t just observing something from afar, because we’ve actually had contact. We actually have more information than something just floating up above the island. So the analogy breaks down very quickly. And even if there was this potential for one or more of these planetary civilizations to be of concern to us, my answer would still be the same: There needs to be engagement. There needs to be a diplomatic détente. There needs to be a rapprochement. There needs to be an enlightened approach to this where we really move out of a sort of duality that leads to conflict on Earth. I think that regardless of what your assessment of the agenda, the path of wisdom and safety is that. KC: Okay, we don’t disagree with that, okay? Let’s talk about where we agree… BR: I agree fully, and it needs to be in the public domain. KC: I mean, we certainly agree on the end objective. Okay? The end objective, from our point of view. Okay? We are not part of the military-industrial complex. Okay? We’re doing what we do because we believe in truth, because we’re dedicating our lives. And, indeed, our lives literally have been in danger because of what we believe. We do it on a daily basis and you, of all people, should understand this. SG: Mm-hm. KC: So we’re not taking this lightly. Our end result is not to be what they may desire as their ultimate end-game. In other words, we’re not here to support their end-game and we’re not naïve about what we’re doing either. So neither of those things is true. Okay? We are not trying to promote sort of a fear-based paradigm such that people get into a place where the only thing they can think of is to shoot ET in the head, to be graphic, or to allow for spacebased weaponry. I mean, we basically agree with your philosophy in that way, wholeheartedly. In fact, I would say, we are dedicating our lives to that.

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However, on the other hand, we are also not going to sit here and pretend that we know all the answers. And we’re also not gonna assume that all contact is positive. On the contrary to what your… SG: You’re going to say whatever you think. KC: Yeah, obviously we are. But in terms of this discussion and for the reason that we… You know, you’re sort of saying our blog thing, our posting, you found offensive because we’re saying... What you’re saying on stage, and again, you’re on stage. You’re on stage actually more often than we are, far more often – and I have to say, therefore your responsibility is great. Perhaps your approach is a bit simplistic in that you are assuming that if you talk about the potential that there are other things going on, or a potential for other ways of looking at the question, that the jump that the whole audience out there is gonna make immediately is to fear and panic. And that they’re gonna jump on this bandwagon of the military-industrial complex, and all go out and grab their guns and knives and want to go shoot ET and fight with each other and other worlds, and so on. That’s not... In other words, you’re going from... SG: But the problem is, is that I’m completely aware that my position is the minority position. Okay? I’m acutely aware that. KC: Actually, that’s not true either. I mean, there are plenty of people out there that are advocating peace and love, and getting on their cars and jumping up and down: Please, ET, come save us because you’re all good. SG: No. I would actually challenge you to look at Hollywood, the UFO community, the books and videos that are out on this subject. They are overwhelming negative and terrifying. I think that this is one of the problems. BR: I don’t think so. SG: I think that one of the problems is that we have to look at this with a long view. And the long view, as I see it... And this is all I can do is go by my own moral compass and what I think is right. I don’t think I’m irresponsible. I don’t think I’m simplistic, and all these sort of characterizations. I think that I have a responsibility to help articulate a path forward that is wise and that does not redound to further fear and panic and negativity on this planet, but that moves us forward in a positive way and that can lead to what I’m certain will be the future for this planet. That’s one of, not only world peace, but universal peace and a wholly, completely new, transformative civilization on this planet that isn’t thousands of years off or even decades off now. I think it’s very, very near. So, I think that that’s what I wish to articulate. There’s no simplicity to it. It’s actually a rather complex concept. It’s also a way of engaging spiritually. I want to share a dream I had. I don’t share this very often, but... Back when my friend Shari and I and another member of my team all got metastatic cancer in the same month and we were all going to die. She died, but she was still alive. And Bill Colby had I had a dream – I think I was in England doing some crop circle work – and in the dream there were these giant lions that were stalking me. They were going to try to kill me. (It’s funny because Dr. Tom Bearden talks about “the lions” of this cabal, and I’d never heard him use that term at the time I had the dream.) But here were these huge lions, and they were stalking me and they were going to kill me. And it was this lucid, lucid, full-color dream. I didn’t run. I didn’t get angry. I didn’t have hate in my heart. I opened my heart and went to a place of universal love and consciousness and I engaged each lion in their eyes. We were doing this, following each other around, and eventually they became so engaged with that energy that, even t