....' . ._ . ':-:'.

";>~.i: :






:~.;( ..

>L&.I = :c

. ...~.; ....

~ ....

. ..t-:-', ~ .





. .



. - . >,.. ~

. .": ....

.. .~. :. ~:
_. >. -..:==-.:



.~ ...




~~ ..... --:



Huey Newton interview originally pu blished in
THE MOVEMENT August 1968 Printed

Studen ts for a
Demo era ti C Society






1608 W. Madison~ Chicago

III inois 60612
MOVEMENT, 449 14th St .. . ,

San Francisco1 California
:i~~"~ ~: ~ .. .


H uey Newton photos; Jeff Blankfort Back page ph oto: Stephen Shames


.... :: .




n!~:).m t"S a vit~l one in the black

TIiE M0 VE~i ENT~ The questio n men t
t Q O-;JY _ Some ha ¥ e


r l]il.l~onmove-


between cultural ticnary nationalism. Would you comrnen t on the di ffe: ren ce s and S ~ve itS Y QU r

made a db ti nc ticn nationalism and revclu-

}TlJEY P. NEWTON: There are two kinds of nationalism, revolutionary nu{j orialism and reactionary nal!OfiUb1ffiRf-.yohH~Ofl~ ary y netic n alism is ftrst depe ndeot u ron a People's revoluticn with the ~end goal bei ng the peopl e ~n powerFhe refore to be a revolutionary nati orml j:st :(ou would by necessity have to be J SOCHLa~st. If j ()U are a reaction ary nationalist you are no l a 5D:ciali st ~l:fl:tJ y au r e 11d goa~ j s the oppress ~on {J f the peo ple, C u h ural n arion 8.J j:=H1.1. Of pOT k yh~p nationnlisrn, as I sometimes call ~t, ss basically a problem of having the: wrong politi cal perspective. It sc-ems to be _"21: reaction instead of re:spond ing t_0 p~ll ~ tical oppression, The cultural nationalists are concerned with returning to the old African C!] 1tu re and thereby regaini ng their identity and freedom, In otber words, they feel thai the African culture wiJI automatically y bring political "freedom, MaJlY times cultural na·ltonalisl5 fall into line afOj reactionary nationalists, Papa Doc in H~!ti is e n excellent example of reactionary y national ism. He oppresses t he. ~D p10 bu t he ~oes prompte the African culture, He's agarnst anything other then b1ack, W Q1(::h on the surface seems very good, but for him it is _-only to mislead the people. He m-erely kicked out the racists and rep laced them with hi·m5€ If us the 0 ppressor - Many of the national Est!; in th is CQU ntry seem to des ire the same ends. The B lack Pan ther Party which is a revel u rio nary y group (If black people, real izes that we h ave to have an lden t ity, We have to realize our black he.f.itaie in order to g ive us strength to move on and progress. But as far as rerurni ng to the old Afric an ell lture, .i t' S tl n n ecessary and ~ s no t advan tage 0 1l_!5 in .man y r' respectsW =2 believe that co lture jt5~lf will not liberate us. We~IT going to need so me 5 tronger stu ff.

be profits into the community. Th ats what socialism is al j abo u t in a nutshell Th e p eop 1 5 re pres en [£11i yes are in office e' strictly on the leave of the people- The wea] th of the coun try is con tro Lled by the people and they are considered _ whenever mcd1fic:Hjons in the industncs are made.

the peep le and ~eep them l n a state C) f shrve.ry. Th ey n ati 00 ~ al ized the indus try and plowed the wou ld~9U Id explo1t

The Black Panther Party tionary N atio nalist grou P

and ~e :ee a ma j 0 r centrad iction be t wesrn ca p ltalis m in this country and our interests. We realize. that this co un try bee arne veJ_y rich uyOtl s I avery and that slavery 1,s capitalism in the extreme. We have. two eV11s to fi ght, capi t alisrn and racl:S~~ We must destroy both racism and capi-

is a revoln-


MOVEMENT~ Directly r e l at.ed to !he question of nationalism .i~ the q\J.est:~n of unity within the b l ack c o mrnurnty. There has been some q lJ esri on abou t (his since the Black Panther Party has ron can di da tes ag ai 0 st othe r b 1ac k csndi dates in recent C ali foroia esectio ns, What is y OUT pos ition on this matter? HUEY: Well a VEry peculiar thing has happen ed. Historically you get what Malco.lrn X calls the field nigger and the house nigger. T~~ house ni ~cr had sorne

priv ileges,

black, He came to respect the master to such an eXI ent u nti 1 he identi fled wi th the master because he got a :few of the And throngh this identity with him, he sn w the s 11:1;11 e mast er" S in ter e s t as b ein g his 1 re rest Sornetlmes he W:()U ld n even pr-otect the slavernaster more than the sfavemaster would protect himself. Mal co lm makes the point that if the master' ::; house happen ed to. catch 0(1 fire the house Negro wi}] w-ork harder than the master to put the fire out and save the master' s house. V{bj le th e field Negro, the field bl acks Vi a:s pray in g that the

a Iittle more, He g ot the worn-out clothes of the master and be didn ' t have to work as bard as. the field




"fi el d

bl ack


did not

Revolu tiona ry

Nati onatism

ide n tifi ed with




A good example of, revolutionary nationalism was the revolution ~o Alg~n.~ when Ben B db took over. The Frenc h were kicked 01]t but It was a people's revoluti on bee a U Sf the peo p 1e ended up l n po wer ~ The leade I:'S til at t ook ove r We r~ not l nterested in the profit motive where

when the master would get sick the house Negro would say ~ "Ma.ster, wes sick !"

house black the mas ter so m uoh that


B Jack SOU rgeoisie
are the fi e]d blacks) we;)re hoping the master' dies if he gets sic k. The Black oo ur geoisie s eem
The B 1ack Pan the!


to be acting j n the role of the hou 5e Negro. They are pro-administration. They would like a few co ncessi ons mad e ~ but as far as the overall setup, they have a HtUe more: material goods ~ a little more advan tag e~ a few more pri Y i1e g es than the black have-nets; the lower class. And so they identify with the power structure and they see their interests as the power structure "s interest. In fa-ct ~ It':s against their interest, The Black Panther Party WaS forced to draw a line of dern arcation. We are for all of those who are for the promotion of the interests of the black havenots, which represents about 9 S% of blacks here in America, Were not control led by th e whi te mother co U IJ try rad ic al s nor are we con tro lled by tile b lac k bour ~ geoisie. We have a mind of our own and if the bIac k bourgeoisie cannot ali gn

j ection of the sy stern ~Qmcwh~! of an abstract th ing, Thev're 100kj 312 for ne w heroes. Th~y~re looking to v7a.sn away the hy p ocr isy th at thf:1 r fnt hcr s h 0] vc presented to the world. In dQlng Lhj:.; they see the peop 1e who·.are reaDy ~ f ght~ng for freedo rn. The)' :5-ee the peap le
who are really standi ng fer justice and eq uality and p:€~{:e throughout the world. They ar e rb e people o f Vi e tna rn, the Peopl e Qf Latin America, the people of Asia, the people of A f ri c a, and th e bbc.k people in th-e black colony herein America.


somewhat of a problem £0 the black revolutionarv

in m8UY ways

This presents


cornp lete program, then the black bourgeoisie sets Ltself up as our enemy. And they will be attacked


and treated as such,

white revolu uonaries because he can ~ t see why any-one white wouJd tum 00 the system, So they think (hat maybe this 1.0;; some more hypocrisy being planted by w hi te peo ple,

especi ally to the cutrura] nationalist. cultural nationali st doesn't understano

Th the


MOVEMENT: The B lack. Panther Party has had considerable contact with white radicals siuce its earliest days. What do you see as (he role of these white radicals? mother cou ntry radi cal is the 0 ff -spri n g 0 f the c hil dren 0 f the beast that has pi undere d the world exploiting aU people, concentrating on the people of color. These are ch lldren of th e beast that seek no w to be redeemed because (hey realize that their former heroes, who were sla v e masters and. murderers ~ pu t forth ideas that were on Iy f acades to hi de t he treachery the y inil icied up 0 n the w 0rld, They are tu rnin g t h eir backs 011 their fat hers. The white mother cou ntry radi cal, in resisting the system, becomes somewhite

H UEY : The

Black peQp j e in Awed ca and colored peop Ie throughout the world suffer not only from eRp lei ration, but they suffer from racism. Black p cop 1c here; in pressed because we~ re black and we ~re exploited. The whites are rebels, many of them from the middle class and as far as any overt oppression this 1~. not the case. So therefore I call their reAmerica, in the black colony, are op-


of an nbs tract thing because he" 5 not oppressed as much as black people are. As a matter of fact his oppression is so mew hat ab str act si mpl y because be. doesn' l have to Iive In :3 reality of . what

to realign themselves with man kind, and to mr)1I:. a reality out of the hi gh mora 1 standards that their fathers and forefathers on) y ex pressed. In press j ng for new heroes the yo ung w hite revolutic nari es foun d the heroes j 11 the black colony at home and in th e co Ion ies throughout the wor ld, The young white TCYO~ utionaries raised the cry for the troops to withdraw from Vietnam, hands off Latin America, with. draw from the Domimcan Republic and a150 to W J t hdraw from the black commu ni ty or the black colon 'i. So you ha Y¢ :a si ttl a.ti(,1 n in which the voung white revolutionaries are attempting to jden{i fy Vol ith the orp rexsed peopl e of th e colonies and agaj nst the exploiter, The problem arises then io what part they can play- How can they aid the CO'ony? How can they aid the Black Panther Party or any other bl ack revolution ary group? They can ~d the black revolution arie s first by simply turnm g away from th e est ab li shrne nt, :a nd ~GC ond ly by choosing [heir friends. For instance, they ha ve a cboice between w ~ et her they win be a friend of Lyndon B ames Johnson or 8: friend of Fidel Castro, A friend of Robert Kennedy Or a friend of Ho C hl Mi n h, And these are direct OPPQ sit es . A fri end of min e Or a friend o f Jonnsons. Af£er they make this choke then rhe white revolutionaries have a duty and :3 responsi bility to act.

young wh ite revolutionaries
cere in attempting



all y tni nk that there


are many


si n-

The. imperialistic or capitalistic system occupies areas- It occupies VIetnam n?w. They occupy them by sending soldiers there, by sending, policeman there, The policemen or soldiers are only a gun m the establishment's hand- They make the racist secure in his racism. The gun tn the establis hill en t ~ hand makes the estabs Iishrnen t secure in its exploitation. The first prob lern it seems is. to remove th_e g 11n from the es tablishmen t' s hand, Un 1J.l lately the white radi cal has seen no reason to come into conflict with the policemen in his own community - The reason I said until recently Is because there is friction now in the moth er CQ U ntry between the young white revolutionaries and the police. Because n ow the while rev oluti onaries are attemptin g to pu t some of their ideas in.to action, and there's the rub. We say that t t sho u1d be a permanent tb ing. Black people are being oppressed in the colony by white police men, by white yael sts _ Weare say in g they mus t wi tbdraw . We realize that it is not only the Oakland pol ice d epartme nt but rath er th e securi ty Jorces in general? On A pri 1 6 it w asn ~ t just th.e 0 akl and p 0 Iice d ep artmen t who am bu she d the Pan rhers. It was the 0 akland Polict department, the Emeryville police derartment and "I wouldn't be surprised i there wer others _ When the white revolutionaries went down to close

up the Army terminal in October 1965 it wasn ~t the Oakland police by themselves who tried to stop them. It was the Oakland police, the Berkeley police, the High way Patrol, the Sherriffs Department and the national guard Wa5 standing by~ So we see that tbey' re all part of one organization They"re all a part of the security force to protect the status quo; to make sure that the institutions carry out their goals They're here to protect the system, As far as I' m concerned tile only reasonabl e con cl usi 0 n W ould be to first re alize the enemy, realize the pIan, and then when something happens in the b lack colony -when we~re attacked and ambushed in the black colony--then the white revolutionary students and intellectuals all the other whites who support the colony should respond by defending us, by attacking the enemy in their community. Every time that we ~ attacked in our community re there should be a reaction by the white revolutionaries.they should respond by defending U.$_I by attacking part of the security force. Part 01 that security force {hat is determined to carty out the racist ends 0f the American institutions, As far as 0 ur P arty is c oncerned, th e Black Panther Party ·is an aU black party, because we feel as Malcom X felt that there can be no black-white unity until





aid from the mother country as tong as the mother country radicals real i:te. that we have, as Eldridge Cleaver says tn SOUL ON ICE, a mind of our own, We~ye re-

b lern in the bl ack cotony that is particular to the colony, but we're willing to accept

there first is bl ad

unity, We have a pro-

with the Party?

you commen t specifically


Peace and Freedom

on your alliance

gained. our mind th at w as take~. away from us and We will decide the political as wen as the practice] stand that we'll take. We'll make the theory and we) 11 carry ou t the practice. If is the duty of the white revolutionary to aid us in this. Sot he role of the mother country radi-

RUEY: We have an alliance with the Peace and Freedom Party _ Th e Peace an d Freedom Party has su pp o.rted our program in full and this Js the criterion for a coalition wi th the black rev 0lution ary group, If they

cal, and he does have a role, is to first c hoos e hi s frieud an d hi s en emy an d after doing tb is. which it seems he's already done, then to not only articulate h LS d esrres to regain his mo ral stand ard and aJign himself w lth ~umanlty, bat also to put this in to practi ce by a ttacki ng th e pro te ctors of the ins titu ti ons. You have spoken a Jot about dealin g with the protectors of the system, the armed forces- Would you like to elaborate on why you place so much emphasis on this? RUEY: The


had not supported OUT pro gram in fa tl, then we would not have Seen any reason to make an all'i an ce wi th th e OJ ~ because we are the reality of the oppressi Q n. They are not. They are only oppressed in an abstract way; we are oppressed in {he real way _ We are the real s laves! So it's a problem that we suffer from more than anyone else and it's our pr-oblem of Iiberation ~ Therefore we shou id decide what measures and what tools and what pro grams to use to become Ii berated _ Man y of the young w hi te rev 01 uti on aries realize this and I see no re as on not t.o have a coati lion with them.

that (feel

v ery

strong ly about dew ing 'With the protectors of the system is simply because without this pro tecti on from the army, the 'police and the rni litary, the institutions cou ld n-ot go on in their racism and exploitation.
dri vj ng the Ameri can imperialist out of Vietnam) it automatically

MOVEMENT: Other black group~ seem to feel that from past experience it is impossible f.or them to work with w h~tes and irnpossi b le for them to form alliances. What do you see as the reasons for this and do you think that the history of the Black Pa nth er Party makes thi s les 5: of a pro b ~


SNCC and Liberals
HUEY: T here was sornew hat of an unhealthy' relationship in the past with the w hi te liberals su pporting the black people who were tryin g to gain the ir freedom, 1 thin k th.at a good. exampl e of this w~ld ?e the relationship that SNCC had with ats whi te li berals. I call tb ern wh ite liberals because they differ strictly from the white radicals. The relationship was that the whites controlled SNCC for a very long time, From the Yery start of SNee Un til here recently whites were the mind of SNCC. They controlled the program of SN CC with money and they contra] led the ideo 10gy or the stands SN CC would take. The bl ads in SN CC were comp let ely controlled program-wise: they couldn't do any more than these white liberals wanted them to do, which wasn' t very mu ch. So the w h·ite liberals were not working for self-determination for the black community _ They



as the


stops the racist imperialist institutions of America from oppressing that particular COil ntry _ The country cannot implement its rae ist pra zra m wi thou t the gu as. And the guns are "the military and the police. If the mi11 tary were disarmed in Vietnam, then the Vietn amese would be victorious. We are in {he same situation here in Amen ca- Whenever we attack the system the first thing the administrators do is to sen d ()U t their stron g arm men, I f it S a. rent strike, because of the indecen t housing WE have, they wi II send out the police to throw the furniture on t the wi ndo w, They don' t come the rnsel yes. T hey sen d their protectors, So 10 dead with the corrupt exploiter you are going to have to deal with ids protector, which is the police who take orders from him. This is a must



MOVEMENT: WouJd you like to be more specific On the conditions which must exist before an alliance or coal iti on can be formed with predominantly white groups? Would


were in teres ted in




few concessions




Carmichael came along and realizing'> this started to follow Malcolm X! 5 proW-am of Blac~ Po~e( - This frig ht~



ened many of the white liberals who were

supporting SNCC Whites were afraid when Stokely came along with Black Power and said that black people have a rni nd of their Own and that SNLC would be an allblack orzanization arnd that SNCC would seek serf-determination for the black commu ni ty . The white liberal s withdrew their support leaving the organization flu and ally ban krupt, The blacks Vi ho were in the organization, Stokely and H Rap Brown, were left very angry with the w hi te lib eral s who had bee 0 ai ding th em under the diggui. se of being sincere. They The resul t was that the ]eadershi p of SNCC turned away from the white liberal, which was very good- I don' t think they

our departure point, So we don' t sutter in the hangu p of a skin color ~ We don' t hate ;vhite people; we hate the oppressor. And if the oppressor happens to be whi te then we hate him. When he stops oppressing us then we no Ion ger hate him. And ri cr ht

now in .A..merica you have the sla ve- master being a w hi te group - We are pushing him out of office through (evolution in this

country ~ I think the responsibility of the white revolutionary will be to aid us in this, And when we are attacked by the po lice the murderers and to respond spond, to follow our program. as we re-


or ~y the military then it will be up to the w hi te ill other CQ n n try t adi cab (0 attac k

point of denying that the white revolutionaries could give SU PPQrt, by su pporti ng the programs of SN CC in the mother [;::01:1 ntry. Not by makin g any pro grams, not by being a member of the organization, but simply by resisting, Just as the Vietnamese people realize that they are su pp orted w henev er other oPEre.ssed people throughout the WOT ld rests t, B ecau se .1 the] ps divide the troops. It drains the country utili tarily and economically. If the mother country radic als are sin cere the n this will d efinitely add to the attack that we are making on the power structure, The: 81 ack

·betwe;:!(l the w hi te liberal and the white revolutionary, because (he w bite revo 1utio nary y is whi te also an d they are very mu ch afrai d to have an y con tact whatsoever with white people. Even to the distin guished

Slave Masters
MOVEMENT: Yon indicate that there is a psychological process that has historically e xisted in white- black relations in the U S~ that must change in the course of

rev 0 lution ary struggle. commen t on this? HUEY:

W on ld you like to relationship


Party's program Is a program where we recognize that the revolution in the mother country will definitely aid us in our freed om and has everything to do with our struggle 1

Hate the Oppressor
1 think that one of SNCC~J great probs J e ms is th at they were con tro lled by the traditional administrator: the: omnipotent adrnini strator, the white person- He ~as the mind of SN CC~ And S(I SN CC reo ained its mind, but I believe that it lost its political perspective. I think that this was a reaction rather than a response. The B1ack Panther P)ru-ty has NEVER been controlled by white people. The Black Panther Party has always been a black grou p- We have always had an integrati on of rot nd and body - We have never been controlled by w hi tes and there-

black and White here in America has been the rel ationship between the slave and the master; the master being the mind and the slave the body. Tbe slave would carry out the orders that the mind demanded him to carry out. By doing this the mas ter to 0k the ill anhood fro rn tb e s lave beca us€ he stri pp ed him of a mind _ He stripped black people of their uri n d. In the prOCCS:5 the 5 lavemaster stripped himself of a body- As Eldridge puts'it the slave master became: the omnipotent administrator and the slave became th e. super mas culine men ial. This puts the omnipotent administrator into the contro llin g posi tion or the front offi ce between relationship developed so that the omnipotent adrni nistrator and the So uperrnascu lin e meni al b ec arne oppcsi tes. The slave being a very strong body .doing all the practical things, all of the work bee omes very .masculine. The omni pote nt administrator in the process of removing himself from body functions real j ZC5 Ia ter th at he h as emascul a ted himself. And this is very disturbing to him. So the slave lost his mind and the slave- master his body, The

Yes. The historical

and the supermasculine field.


into the



f()r~ We don' t fe~r the :vhi te mother coun try
rad teals,

Our al liance rs one of organized black groups with organized white groups. As soon as the organized whi le groups do not do the thin gs that would benefi t us in our stru gg le for !iberation, that will be

Penis Envy
. This c aused the sIa ve- master to become very envious of the slave because he pictured the slave as being more of. a man ~ being -5U perior sexuallv because








the pen is 1s part of the body - The omnipotent administrator laid down a decree when he realized that his plan to enslave: the black man had a flaw ~ when be disc overed that he had etnascu lated h imse If. He attempted to bind the penis of the slave. He attempted to show that his penis could reach further than the ;super-

Re-capture the Mind
can not unite wi th the bo d y because the body is black. The body is symbolic of slavery and strength. It's a biological thing as he views it. The slave is in a much better situati on bee ause his not being a full man has always been viewed

Th e white man cannot gain his manhood ~

museu line

the omnipotent administrator access to the black woman."
attraction feminine




said ':'~I,

rnascu line men: al then h ad a psycholo gical
to (be white woman (the ultra freak) for the simple reason

The super-


to be satisfied but simply to confirm his man hood. Because if he can only satlsfy the self-reliant Amazon then he would be sure that he was a man, Because be doesn't have a body, be doesn't have a penis, he p5 ychol 0 gically wan ts to castrate the' black man- The slave was constantly

fruit The omnipotent administrator decreed that this kind of contact would be punished by death. At the same time in order to reinforce his sex ual desire, to confirm, to assert his manhood, he would go into the slave quarters and have sexual relations with me black women (the self-reliant Amazon).

that it was forbidden

psychologically. And its always. easier to make a psychological transition than a biological one. If he Can only recapture his mind, recapture his balls, then be

wil l lose

determine his destiny. This is what is happening at this time with the rebellion of the wor 1d's oppressed p eop Ie ag ai n s t the controller. They are regainin g their mind and they're say.inr: that we have a

all fear


w ill

be free


po wer stru cture today in America defines itself as the mind. Thel want to control the world. They go of and plunder the world. They are the policemen of the world exercising control especially over peop]e of color.

unity within himself; a mind and a body. He always wanted to be able (0 d ecid e, to gill n res peet from h is woman" Because women want one who can control. 1 give this on rline to fit into a framework of what is happening now. The white

want freedom of our people, thereby uniting the mind with their bodies. They are taking the mind back from' the omnipotent administrator, the con troller ~ the exp Ioi te r. In America black people are also chanting that, we have a mind of our own. We must have freedom to determine our destiny. Ir' s almost a spiritual thing, this unity" this harmony-This unity of the mind and of the body ~ this unity of man within himself. Certain slogans of Chairman Mao I think demonstrate this theory of uni ti ng the rnind wi th the body within the man. An example is his call to the intellectuals to go to the countryside. The peasants in the country side are all bodi es . th ev' re t he workers. And , he sent the intellectuals there because

mind of



re saying that we to determine the destiny


the d j crator shi p of ih e p r<d etar i at has no morn for the omnlpo tem ad min j_1j U-a-to.r::
there ~:s no room

reaUy, done a favor, because the people for ce h im to uni te his mind wdh his body by puttin g them both to work. At the s ame tlrne th~ inteH~~tua] teaches the people political ideology ~ he educates them .. thus u t1 itjng the rni nd and the bod y j n th e Peasant. Th e ir minds and bodies arc united anrl they control their country _ 1 thi nk thi s is a very good example of this uni ty and it is. my jdea of the pe rfect rnan.

,go to the countryside ~o .regai n his body: he must work - J-Ie



the exploi ter - So

bee n the workers, b ave reg aine d OU r min ds and we now have .9: uni ty of mind and body. .~10·~"""EME.NT; Would you be willing to ex tend rh~s formula in terms of white rad~ al~ ~ to say that one of thelr stru gg les c today 1:8 to get back their bodies.

HUE Y: Yes- r thought 1 made (hat de ar. The w)1:ite moth~r .:CQuntry radical By bec~m~n¥ an acuvist is attempting (0

re g as n his body- By being an activist and not the traditional theoretician who Q: U tU ~3es the ~1aIJ as the Cornmun ist Party has been rrying [0 do for ever so lon ~~ o .

The Guerri Ita
point that man and to fit in a political on this?


mentioned aJ another the zuerril1a was the perfect this kind of formulation seffn3direct Iy w~th the guerri 11 as. a rnan, \VouJd you like to comment The g u err i]]a
j save


(he w h 1te roo ther cou n try rad ica 1 IS reg ai ni ng his body. The resistance bv w hi te r~.ic a15_ in Berkek:y ?u~ng th e p~t three nigh ts .IS a good in dication th at the w hi te radi c als are on the way home - They 11 ave iden tifi ed t heir en ernics. 1 be w hite radi ~
They reauze the system is reaJ ~ne.my but in order to attack Arnerrcan system they must attack or d i nary C op~ In order to attack educ arional system they must attack
c als h~ve~~ integrated th 0ry

7 American

with practice,

the the

H U E·Y : Yes.


u nique man, 'Th i~ is ~ contrast to Marx 1Stn Len ~ ist Qrthod?~ theor!,es w here ,the part yo II controls the mll~tary - 1 he guerrilla is not on1 ~ the W arrior ~_ the mil itary fighte r; he )~ abo the mil itary commander as well as the po J j ~i a I !h cote heian. .De bra y c :say:, "poor 'the pen without the g uns, PO?f ~e gun wi thout the pen". The pen bel ng J ust ,an ex tensi on of the mind. a tQO I to wnte down concepts, ideas, The gun is only an ex tension of the body the ex tension of ou r fanged teeth tha t w~ ~~~t through evolution. ·It',~ the weapon., It s the \"::l~ws ~al we l?~l~ ifs tile body, The guemlla l~ the rm litary comman-der and the political theor-eti-cian all jn one. _ In B clivi a C he sald that he got very h HIe h el p from th ~ Co mm unist Party there, The Communist Party wanted to be tile rnind, the Com rnunis t Party wanted to ,h_a ve "tun con tro I of ih e gu erri 11:a acuvrty. ,But yet weren ' t tak ing part in the pr acti cal w ork 0 f the g tl e rri Has. Th e guerrilla on the other hand is not only un ired w jthin. hirnsel f, bu t he also attemp ts to sp~ad th LS to the peep le by ed uca t l ng the ~Ll1agers" _ g~vlng them, poluical perspecn ve , pomung out things, eo nearing them politically, and arming the people.
T h erefore

tb e

o rd in ary teacher. J ust as the Vi ern amese people to attack. the American system rn u~ t arrack the ordinary 50 ldier - The wb ite mother country radicals nOW are ·rega.in!~g their bodies and they' re also :n~cogn IIIng that the black rnan has a mind EJld that he is a maoyou comment DO how Hu s P s y ch 0] og 1cal underst andi ng aids. in th e .revo Iutionary s tru g gl e?

M .:() V ErvrE NT:

HU EY; You can see that in statements unti I recently black pe-ople who haven ~ t been e III ightened ha-ve defined t_h e white
is making this decisi on, "The Man l' th i s and "The Man" that. The black w 0 m an to un d it di ffi cult to respect the b~ack man because he didn't even define hi rnse lf as a man! Because he did n ~t have a mind, because the decision maker was outside of himself. But the vanguard g:-Otl p... the B lack Panther Party along WIth _ all revolutionary black groups have rega1ned our mind and our manhood. Therefore we no longer define the ornnipote nt administrator as. "the Man" , ~ or the authori ty as "the MAN'" _ Matter o~ fact _ the o~l pore nt adtninistrator along '"" th l his sec uri ty a gen ts are less than a





him "the MAN.



peasants they've


of the mind


and the body - Black here in America, who have long

g uerr il la i13 gj v jn,g the and workers a mind. Because already got the body you get a the



WE define


as pigs!


I think that this is a revolutionarv thj ng ~ j n .i ts elf. Th a f s po li t l ca I p o W e r. - T h a r s power itself. Matter of fact what is power other than the abi lity to define p he nornenon and [hen make it act In 11 des ire d m an net? W 11 II b 1ac k peopl e start e defining thi ngs and making it act in a 5~red manner ~ the n we cal] this B Iac k

HUE Y: Y ~:5- The
CDD1pr onus e. compromise our fre~dom
bee au se [he

fe¥Q~U ti onary see s no We w~U not compromise

j S5 QC


out revolution out. And we refuse to remain slav es. As E ld ri dge says in SOUL ON ICE "a slave who dies of natural causes wiH not balance two dc~d flies on the scales

s.-eHi ug \V-e will be ;i:elHng the

is s 0

w~U be


1 f we

MOVEMENT: Would you comment On w hat you mean by B lac k Po wer?
HUEY: Power, Panther


B lack

pe oples The Black Panther Program, Power as we can it, w il l im-


is real ly

W go on wah the slavery that we're In. Once we compromise we: win be: compromising not on Iy 01) r freed OlD. but a lso "Our man 11 cod. w_ e realize th at we~re go·~ng.up against a high Iy technical country ~ and we r~i11 ize

we would




As. far as we're ratner be dead than


about Latin America for the Latin A meri ca ns. Cuba Si and Yanq u i, Non. It' 5 not that (hey don' 1 want the Yankees to have any power they j us! don' t want


pl ement th is people ~s power ~ We have respect for a] I of humanity and We rea lize that (he people should ru le and deterrni n e their destiny. Wipe .01.1 t the controller. To have Black Power doesn "t humble or subj ug ate anyone to sla very or oppression. Black Power lS gi ving power to peop le who have not had power to deterrni ne their dcsri ny. We advocate and we aid any people who are struggling to derermi ne th eir dcst iny, T'hi S i:') regardless of color. The Vietnamese say Vietnam should be able to dererm ine irs own destiny. Power of the Vietnamese peopl c. We a lso chant _power of the Viet ~

Map say s , OUl real tigers JOO because they have the abi lity to i~~lughter many peo ple. E at in the long run, they wi ll prove rh ernsel ve s paper tigers because they) r e nor in line VI ith humanity; they are di"Vorce.d from (he people. We know th at the en em y L~ very po werfu 1 and .~ hat our rn a n hood is at stake, but vY'e feel it necessary to be victorious in regai III ng o IJ r sel ¥ es ~ re gaini ng OlJ r manhood ~ And this is the basic point, So ei ther we wi 1] do thi s or W~ WDn 'r have any freedom. Either we wil] win or We will die :trying

lh at they

are not only paper tigers,


to win.





talki ng

Mood 01 Black PeopJe
MO\/ EMENT; How woul d YOU cbaracte rize the mood of black. people in America toda y? Are lhf:Y disenc hanted ~ wan ring a larger sl ice of the pie, Of al ienated, not w anti ng [0 j ntegrate j nto a burnin g house, not wan ring to in reg rate in 10 Bab y~ Ion? Wh at do you think wj! I take for them to bee-om e alienated and revel utionary")

to b ave power over them- They can have power over themselves. We in the black colony in America want to be able to have pOWEr over our destiny and that's black power. A lot of white radicals are roman ti c about what C he said: .., f] a re vol uI tion one wi ns or dies . , For most of U 5 it is really an abstract Qr theoretical question, It' s a real question for you and d like you 10 rap about how You feci adout Lt.




the iUu.sion that we had freedom co un try ~ This <jo-riety is defi n i j tel

HUEY: I w-as going to say disillusioned, but I don'( think we were ever under

in this

u deca-

!l dent one and we realize it, Black people are realizing it more and more. We cannot gain our freedom under the present system; rhe system that i5 carryi ng 011 t t rs plans of instituti cnaliz ed racism. Your question ..is what will have to be done to stimulate them to revolution. I think it) s already being don e. ie s a matter of time now for us to educate them to a program and show them the way to liberation. The Black Panther Part y is the beacon light to show black people Cu ba where it was necessary for twel ve. men with a leadership of Che

colonized people. The same thing happened

the way to liberation You notice the insn rrections that have been going on throughout the country ~ in Walts, in New ark, in Detroit. They were all responses of the people demandin g that they h a ve freedom to de te rmi ne their destiny) rejecting exploitation. Now the Black Panther Party does not think tha t the tradi tl 0n a1 ri ots, or j ns urrec ti 0n s that have taken place are the answer. It is true {hey have b e en against the Eatablishrnent, they h ave been agai nst authority and oppres si on within the ir com-

munity, but they have bee n unorganized. Ho wever, black poop 1e le arned fro m each of these insurrectionsTh ey Jearn ed from V{ atts _ I 'rn sure the peopl e in Detroit were edu c.ated by what happened in Watts. Perhaps this was wrong education. It sort of missed the mark. It w asn't quite the. correct acti vi ty ~ but the people were educated through the acti v.ity _ The people of Detroit followed the example of the people in Watts, only they added a Ii ttle scrutiny to it. The people "in Detroit learned that the way to put a hurt on the adrnin istratio n is
to make MQlotov cocktails and to gQ into

same things that were done in Cuba because Cuba is Cuba and the U-S- is the U. S . ellba has many terrain s to protect the guerri l1a:> This COIl ntry i5 mainly urban. W -e have to work out new sol ut ions to offset the p ower of the count r y':s technolo gy and communication; its ability to communicate very rapidly by telephone and .te letype and so forthWed 0 h aye so luti ons to thes e pro blems and they will be put in to effect. ] wouldn ~ t
want to go into the ways and means of this> but we w UI educ ate throng h acti on.

and FIde} to take to the bills and then attack the corrupt administration: to attack the army who were the protectors of the ex plei ters in Cuba, They could have leafleted the community and they could hay? written books, but the people would [lot respond- They had to act and the people could see and hear abo U t it and therefore bee orne. educated on how to re spon d to oppress ion In thi s c-ountry black revoluti onaries have to set an exarrrp le. We can' [ do the

We have to engage in action to make the people want to read onrTi terature. B eel use they are not attracted to an the writing in this country; tbere' S too




h-ooks makes One

Threat from Reformers
M 0 V EI0ENT: Kenn edy before hi s death, and to a lesser extent Rockefeller and
Lindsay and other establishment liberals h av e been talki n g about rnaki ng re forms to give black peo.p1e a greater share in the pie and thus stop any developing

the street in mass nn mbers - So this was a matter of learning. The slogan went u p ''"Burn ~ baby ~ burn" . Peop le. were educated through the activity and it spread throughout [he country. The people were educated on how to resist, but perhaps .inco rrec 11y ~

rev 01utionary movement. Won ld



Educate Though Activlty
to do as a vanguard of the r e vo lut ion is to correct this through acti vity. The large majority of b1ac k p eop le are either ill iter ate Or semi11 te_rf!_te - They don) t _read, They need act! vity to follow. This rs [rue of any What we have

ment On this? HUEY: I would say {his: If a Kennedy or Lindsay or anyone else can give dec ent housin g to all 0 f QU r peop le; j f they call give full employment to our peop Ie with a high stan dard: if they can give fun control to black people to determine the destiny of their communi ty: if they can give fair trials in the court system by turning over the stru cture to the cornmu ni ry; if they can en d their expl 0 itali on of people throug hout the world; if

mmgs they would have solved the. prob-

they can do aU of these

lems, But I don ~ t believe that under this present system. under capitalism, that they win be able to sol...... these pob lerns e

:po yerty pro gram is jus t what .i [ says it is, a. p ro gram to keep p eop le in p ov ~ erty, So I don' t think that there .is any



from tb c refo


MOv"-EMENT~ Would you like to say somePeople Must Control I don'> t think black people
dung about the Panther's organizing pecially in tenus of the youth? es. be because every promises the


fooled by tbeir come-ens one who gets in office sarne thing _ They pro mise full employment and decent housing; the G real S ociety ~ the New Frontier, AU of these names, but nor e a I ben e fi t.s N 0 e f fee ts are felt in the black community and black people are tired of bei ng deceived and duped. The peop le m USi have full control of the means of production. Small black businesses cannot compete with General M otors _ Th at' s j U5t ou t of the question. General Motors robbed EJS and worked us for nothing to r a cou p le h undred years and took our money and get up factories and became fat and rich and ~ then talks about giving us some: of tile crumbs. We want full centro]. We~re not in teres ted j n anyo ne p romi si n g that the private owners are going to all of a sudden become human bet ngs and gi ve these things to our community, It hasn ~t ever happened and, based on empincal ev idence, W~ d-on~ t ex pect them to become B udd hists over night.

HUE Y:The panthers


older people as weH as younger people, The younger people of COUDe are the ones who are seen On the streets. They are th e activist s,. The, y are lh e real vanguard of change because they ha ven ~ t been in ~ do ctrina ted and they ha v en ' t sub rni tte d ,

sectson of the black community _ We have


a cross

been beaten in {O ] ine as SOme of the older people have. But many of the older peo p le realize that we ~ waging re a just fight against the oppressor- They are aidi n gus and toe y are tab ng a part


in the pro grant

.M 0 V E Ms N: T: Tell us something your relati -0 ns with the prise ners jail. about in the

HUEY ~ The black

prison ers as well as

MOVEMENT: We raised this question not because we fee] that these reforms are poss lble, but rathe r to get yonr id eas on what effects sue h attempted reforms .mi g h t h ave on the developmen t
of a reyol utionary struggle.

HU E Y: 1 thin k that reforms pose no real threat: The revolu tion has always been 10 the hands of the young. The youg always inherit {he revolution. The "young population is growing at a very rapid rate and they are very displeased with the an thorit ies. They want control. I dou bt th at und er the present sy stem an y kind of program can be launched that wilt be able to buy off all these young

many of the white prisoners identify with the program of the Panthers, Of co urse by the yery n atore of their bein g prisoners they can see the oppression sn d they 've suffered at tb e hands of {he Gestapo, They have re acted to .iL The: black p ri son ers b ave all j oine d the Pa nthers, about 95 % of them. Now the jail is all Panther and the police are very worried about this- The white prisoners can iden ti fy with us bee au Be they realize that th ey are not in CDntro l, They realize there ~ someone con { .rolling them and the s rest of the world with guns, They want some control over their lives also- The Panthers in jail have been educating them and s 0 we are going along with. the revolution inside of the jail. MO VEMENT: Wh ar has been the effect of the demonstrations. outside the jail calling for )'Free R ue y' ~?

people. They have not been able to do
able to employ all of its people simply because ie s too interested in private pro p erty an d the profit rno rive, A bi g ger

it wi rh the poverty program. the great soci ety ~ etc, This country has never been

HUEY: Very demonstration,

which one, a co u P Ie of trustees, white trustees ~ held a cardb oard sign out the laundry window reading "Free Huey". They say

p osi rive reections. I don" t remember



'people saw it and responded

They were very en th usi astie abo u t th e demo nstrators 'because they too suffer from bel ng treated unfai rl y by rh e paro lea nthto it,


and by the police

here in the jail.

Open or ·Underground
MOVEMENT~ The Panthers orgaruz mg efforts have been very op en 11 p unti 1 this point. Would you like to comment about the question of 3JI underground political organization versus an open organization at this point in the struggle?

HU E Y : Yeah. Some of the black nati onalist group:5 feel that they have to be un dergroun d bel: au s e the j) 11 be atracked ~

the. people while we can So W e're very open about this education. We have been attacked and we will be attacked even more in the future but we're not going to go underground until we get ready to go underground because w? have a mind of our own .. We're not going to let anyone force us to do anything. Were going to go underground after We edu c ate all of the black people and not before that ti m, Them ! won't really be necessary t for U8 to go underground because you c an see black anywhere. We w ill just have the stuff to protect ourselves and the strategy to offset the great power tb at the stro ng - arm illen of the estab li shment have and are planning to use against us-


Bat we don' t feel that you can romanticize

man tic because we're tryin g to live revoIn tionary lives, and we arc Dol taking precau tions. But we say that the only way we wou 1d go undergron nd is if we re


.say we) re ro-

White Organizing
MOVEMENT: Your comments about white prisoners seemed encouraging. YDU see the possibility of organizing w hi te Panther Party i11 opposi ti on to estab li shment possi hly among poor the the and
Do a

driven underground. All real revolutionary movements are driven underground Take the revolution in Cuba The ag.itation that was going on while Fidel was in law schoo I was very mu ch above ground. Even his existence in the hills w as ~ so to s peak, an above the g round affair because he was letti n .... it be kn 0 wn w h Q g was doing the damage and why he was doi ng the damage. To catch hi m was a di fferen t story. The only way we can educate th e peop 1 is by settin g an exe amp 1e for them _ We fee! th at this j s very n e ce;:ss ary . This is a pre-revolutionary period and we feel it is very necessary to educate




themselves. We can tell them what they should do, what their res ponsi bility is if they' re going to clai m to be white revolutionaries or white mother country radicals, and that is to arm themsel yes and support [he colonies around the world in their just struggle agai nst imp eri alism . But an ythi ng mo re than that they wi 11 have to do on their own.

Power is people's power and as far as organizing white people we give white people the privilege of having a mind and we want t bern to get a body, Th ey

V{ell as I put it before








subscribe to new left notes

find what SDS is about learn our plans for the future read the ongoing debates inside the organization read about your brothers and sisters in other parts of the country $5 for members ($1 for sub, $4 for dues) $10 for non-members I would like to join SDS and receive 'New Left Notes (dues $5/year) - Sen d m e __ more copies of this pamphlet at .15 each _Send me a complete list of SDS publications Send me further info on SDS



(city? state, and ziQl

1608 West Madison, Chicago 60612 (312-666-3874)


.,.. .

.._-:..- .



Please send me the next 12 issues of MOVEMENT

Enc}osed is $:2~OO


.. ~ ..... £EFETE




ZIP ....

449 . 14th STREET SAN FRANCISC0 CALIF~ 94103

Sign up to vote on this title
UsefulNot useful