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2011.06.24 How Do I Find Compelling Problems That Grab Student Attention

2011.06.24 How Do I Find Compelling Problems That Grab Student Attention

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Published by Colin Graham
Archive of the discussion held in #mathchat on Twitter on 24th June 2011.
Archive of the discussion held in #mathchat on Twitter on 24th June 2011.

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Published by: Colin Graham on Jun 24, 2011
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@ColinTGraham So are we chatting yet?

#mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:03:31 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84048975304466432 - #7

@stefras @ColinTGraham Waiting for you. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:03:42 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84049019525009409 - #8

@J0yfulOne Is it easier to engage students with current topics or interesting facts? #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:04:18 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84049171555946496 - #9

@ColinTGraham Don't always wait for me! Next week, especially I will be away from my usual set-up #mathchat!
Fri Jun 24 00:04:29 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84049215872974848 - #10

@stefras @J0yfulOne I think it depends on the students and the topic. re engaging students with current topics or interesting facts? #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:05:04 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84049361679560704 - #11

@stefras @J0yfulOne I think it also depends on whether something relevant is big in current events at the time. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:05:53 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84049567779270657 - #12

@ColinTGraham As always, if it's your 1st time, don't try to interact with everyone, it can move fast! Choose 1 or 2 people. Don't forget --> #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:05:55 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84049579032580098 - #13

@cybraryman1 Math teachers have a lot of problems! My Math Word Problems page:http://tinyurl.com/5vvsqy7 #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:06:27 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84049713334190080 - #14

@ColinTGraham If you are RTing someone, make sure the #mathchat is near the front so the archive can pick it up.
Fri Jun 24 00:06:43 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84049780375957504 - #15

@cybraryman1 RT @J0yfulOne: Is it easier to engage students with current topics or interesting facts? #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:06:46 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84049791377616896 - #16

@stefras @cybraryman1 Nice pun! #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:06:48 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84049797975261185 - #17

@J0yfulOne If you had to choose one or the other -- hot topic or interesting fact -- which do you think would be more successful? #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:06:58 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84049840882982912 - #18

Friday, 24th June 2011

How do I find compelling problems that grab student attention?

@ColinTGraham This week's topic is: "How do I find compelling problems that grab student attention?" #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:07:24 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84049951373533185 - #19

@PrincipalDolak RT @cybraryman1: Math teachers have a lot of problems! My Math Word Problems page: http://tinyurl.com/5vvsqy7 #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:07:28 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84049969027362816 - #20

@stefras @J0yfulOne Again, it would depend on the topic, students and current events. Also, what is "interesting"? #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:07:52 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84050068721762304 - #21

@stefras @J0yfulOne Perhaps an interesting fact that can be explored rather than told. Same with hot topic. Exploration/discovery is key. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:08:48 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84050301899915264 - #22

@shyj @ColinTGraham Not only grab their attention, but are authentic too. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:09:43 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84050534985773056 - #23

@J0yfulOne Ok, I'll answer my own question. In my experience, current topics have been more engaging for most students. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:09:50 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84050562500395008 - #24

@stefras @J0yfulOne It then falls to the teacher to determine if the cover story (hot topic, interesting fact) should come first or later. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:09:55 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84050583983624192 - #25

@ColinTGraham So, some areas to explore... attention grabbing= immediate, compelling attention-grabbing= suggests long(er)-term #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:10:05 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84050627780542464 - #27

@shyj My teachers need help making math "real" #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:10:12 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84050653361606659 - #28

@stefras @ColinTGraham Agreed. Good definitions. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:10:46 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84050796559347712 - #29

@ColinTGraham @shyj Authenticity is very difficult to define... for example, classroom classroomtype problems are authentic to the classroom... #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:11:04 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84050875554873344 - #30

@stefras @shyj What makes math "real"? #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:11:10 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84050897960841216 - #31

Friday, 24th June 2011

How do I find compelling problems that grab student attention?

@shyj Lots of math teachers don't want any "long term" math. They have too many "skills" to teach. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:11:48 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84051057247911936 - #32

@J0yfulOne I think it's more challenging to find a fact that the majority of students will think is interesting. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:11:50 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84051068304101376 - #33

@stefras @ColinTGraham I think authentic should have some component of not contrived. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:11:50 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84051066169208832 - #34

@ColinTGraham @shyj "real" - relevant or related to something in the world or related to something in the students' lives or... ? #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:12:10 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84051149308706816 - #35

@shyj @stefras Real math is where there is a life problem that incorporates math skills. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:12:25 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84051212156153857 - #36

@stefras @shyj Ah the old deep math vs curriculum problem. Does all goood math have to be long? #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:12:37 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84051263121133568 - #38

@J0yfulOne But finding a topic the majority of students are talking about is right there in the cafeteria and the hall and probably in class #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:12:52 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84051326253801473 - #39

@shyj @ColinTGraham Exactly, real as in purposeful to real life problem solving life#mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:13:19 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84051438401097728 - #40

@stefras @J0yfulOne But wouldn't that challenge create a stronger AHA! Blow my mind. Wow! effect? #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:13:27 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84051471783575552 - #41

@shyj @stefras No, some math is just skills but we need to show kids how the skills are skillsused in everyday life. Connections #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:14:07 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84051639715115008 - #42

@J0yfulOne I agree with relevancy. Math that's relatable is easier for some students to understand #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:14:11 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84051657733832704 - #43

@ColinTGraham @J0yfulOne #anyqs with a one-minute video or a single picture whi minute which "screams" a mathematical question as first question = compel? #mathchat
Friday, 24th June 2011 How do I find compelling problems that grab student attention?

Fri Jun 24 00:14:22 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84051702621278209 - #45

@BobToms100 Use their world to relate to them. I combined ICT & Maths to create a spdsht to calc cost of a trip by car, any make & model #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:14:22 +0000 2011 - tweet id 840517 84051702013108224 - #46

@POWERORGmath RT @ColinTGraham: So, some areas to explore... attention attentiongrabbing= immediate, compelling suggests long(er) long(er)-term #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:14:33 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84051748892839936 - #47

@LaToniyaAJones RT @ColinTGraham: So, some areas to explore... attention attentiongrabbing= immediate, compelling suggests long(er) long(er)-term #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:14:35 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84051759097581568 - #48

@stefras @shyj But couldn't some math be fanciful? Pure? Fun? Why only real or practical? #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:14:45 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84051799304192001 - #49

@shyj @ColinTGraham I guess purposeful math - kids need to see correlations and how things are tied together #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:14:59 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84051860125786112 - #50

@ColinTGraham @J0yfulOne We need to decide if interest and grabbing attention are the same... #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:15:06 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84051887132905472 - #51

@BobToms100 Factors could be added in to show increasing costs of open windows, larger car sizes, & higher speeds #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:15:09 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84051902312103936 - #52

@stefras @shyj Agreed. So we need problem solving. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:15:17 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84051933417054208 - #53

@cybraryman1 @shyj @J0yfulOne My Making Math Relevant page: http://tinyurl.com/3lqsmuc #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:15:28 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84051979688611841 - #54

@J0yfulOne @stefras As a teacher, i'm not looking for a Wow. I'm interested in increasing student understanding #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:15:48 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84052064233197569 - #55

@shyj @stefras Sure, math should be fun, but even fun math has some use and thinking involved #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:15:52 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84052080230285314 - #56

@shyj @J0yfulOne What determines student understanding for you #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:16:22 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84052208928296961 - #57

Friday, 24th June 2011

How do I find compelling problems that grab student attention?

@stefras @shyj I agree with the purposeful math idea. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:16:40 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84052282727071744 - #58

@shyj @stefras Definitely! #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:16:45 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84052305397288960 - #59

@ColinTGraham @shyj There needs to be a reason why using maths or number work seems the best approach... albeit not only possible one. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:16:53 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84052335453679617 - #60

@BobToms100 Skills were taught in preceding weeks & then problem was set to students in guidance doc. More help given to sts meant lower mark #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:16:56 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84052351467520000 - #61

@stefras @ColinTGraham Grabbing attention hooks students, but interest maintains attention. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:17:24 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84052467729448962 - #62

@J0yfulOne Student understanding, to me, is the ability to use a math skill in a variety of settings, not just in canned problems. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:17:33 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84052504568020992 - #63

@ColinTGraham @J0yfulOne @stefras Do you think students may be looking for a Wow!, though? Not always every time, but... #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:17:58 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84052609081675776 - #64

@stefras RT @shyj: @J0yfulOne What determines student understanding for you #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:18:14 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84052678593888256 - #65

@shyj @ColinTGraham And I think the kids need to be able to determine the best approach. That would demonstrate understanding to me. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:18:39 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84052780502880256 - #66

@ColinTGraham @BobToms100 How did Ss respond to this type of 'reduced' grade? #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:19:23 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84052964850933760 - #67

@J0yfulOne Are students looking for a wow? Sure. Do they expect to find one in a math class. No. Do they need a Wow to learn? No #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:19:32 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84053002536763392 - #68

@shyj I'll b working with MS math Ts next year and really want to help them understand that math need not be a bunch of isolated skills. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:19:42 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84053045750665216 - #69

Friday, 24th June 2011

How do I find compelling problems that grab student attention?

@stefras @ColinTGraham I don't think they are looking for a WOW! but if they get one in addition to discovering concepts, they retain. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:20:08 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84053 84053156127969280 - #70

@shyj It seems to be the hardest for math Ts to get out of the skills based mode. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:20:11 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84053169264537600 - #71

@BobToms100 Use their world to relate to them. I combined ICT & Maths to create a spdsht to calc cost of a trip by car, any make & model #mathchat (1/3)
Fri Jun 24 00:20:21 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84053210465185792 - #72

@BobToms100 Factors could be added in to show increasing costs of open windows, larger car sizes, & higher speeds #mathchat (2/3)
Fri Jun 24 00:20:34 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84053262688468993 - #73

@BobToms100 (3/3) Skills were taught in preceding wks & then problm was set 2 students in guidance doc. More help given 2 sts meant lower mark #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:21:04 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84053388802801664 - #74

@J0yfulOne @shyj I agree that math skills can't be learned in isolation. If students don't see the connection, they won't retain #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:21:20 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84053458403082240 - #75

@shyj @ColinTGraham @J0yfulOne @stefras I don't think they always have to have a WOW but an "I get how to apply this" would be nice. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:21:44 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84053556507836416 - #76

@ColinTGraham @J0yfulOne That is a different question from the idea we are looking at, though... maybe it's about perseverance and practice too. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:21:52 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84053591760961537 - #77

@stefras @shyj In Alberta, our new curriculum deemphasizes skills and emphasizes problem solving. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:22:13 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84053677496741888 - #78

@ColinTGraham Let's bear in mind we are looking for practical suggestions about HOW to find compelling/interest-grabbing problems for Ss #mathchat grabbing
Fri Jun 24 00:23:06 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84053902361755648 - #79

@BobToms100 @ColinTGraham Such a challenge & method of grading levels explained b4hand. Spurred many sts on. Help given 2sts lackin confidence #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:23:19 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84053957646876673 - #80

@shyj @stefras We need to take that view here in the US! #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:23:20 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84053961384001536 - #81

Friday, 24th June 2011

How do I find compelling problems that grab student attention?

@J0yfulOne @colintgraham the topic tonight is how to Wow math students? students?#mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:23:33 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84054014941085696 - #82

@ColinTGraham Do we need to also consider WHERE to find such problems? problems?#mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:23:53 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84054098164449280 - #83

@stefras @shyj "I get how to apply this" was what I meant by WOW! AHA! etc. I.e. they discover the math and concept. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:24:02 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84054137377005569 - #84

@shyj @ColinTGraham It would be helpful if math could be taught in an interdisciplinary way. imho #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:24:10 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84054170381983744 - #86

@BobToms100 @ColinTGraham With a little help thro questionin & listenin, sts can produce results by thmslves, they just need that initial help #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:24:30 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84054252590342145 - #87

@shyj @ColinTGraham A look in the newspaper would be a good start! #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:24:35 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84054274883063808 - #88

@ColinTGraham The topic voted on was "How do I find compelling problems that grab student attention?" @J0yfulOne so the Wow! is the attention... #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:25:12 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84054428235206656 - #89

@shyj @BobToms100 Or just an initial problem so they can start gathering data and problem solving #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:25:23 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84054476159320066 - #90

@stefras @J0yfulOne Topic: "How do I find compelling problems that grab student attention?"#mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:25:40 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84054548754337792 - #91

@shyj @stefras Got cha! #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:25:57 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84054619348668416 - #92

@J0yfulOne @shyj i've seen teachers try to use a thematic approach in an attempt to bring in context, but they then often bend the math #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:25:58 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84054621890428929 - #93

@stefras @ColinTGraham Yes, finding where to find problems is essential. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:26:13 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84054686688227328 - #94

@ColinTGraham Should we be finding the problems... or should it be the Ss... or a mixture of both? #mathchat
Friday, 24th June 2011 How do I find compelling problems that grab student attention?

Fri Jun 24 00:26:14 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84054688646955008 - #95

@BobToms100 If set a problem, esp when there's a real consequence, we freeze. Clarification & help is needed, which shudn't be graded harshly #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:26:23 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84054727331028992 - #96

@shyj @J0yfulOne Yes, it tend to get artificial. I'm not much on thematic, I like PBL better #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:26:41 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84054803726077952 - #97

@J0yfulOne @colintgraham Oh! I don't translate Wow as "attention". Now i'm on page. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:26:57 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84054871078211584 - #98

@shyj @ColinTGraham I think Ts may have to model at first, then do a "with" approach, then the Ss #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:27:23 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84054978473361408 - #99

@stefras @shyj Interdisciplinary teaching is true for all subjects. Yet in Canada, some attempts at this have less than spectacular results #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:27:26 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84054991303749632 - #100

@ColinTGraham @J0yfulOne @shyj "bendy" = starting towards the pseudo pseudo-context or 'artificial' elements which tend to be too prevalent. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:27:46 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84055077261803520 - #101

@stefras Current events. RT @shyj: @ColinTGraham A look in the newspaper would be a good start! #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:27:51 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84055097910378496 - #102

@shyj I kind of like when kids are studying a topic and the math gets snuck in because the kids realize they need it. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:28:22 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84055228806205441 - #103

@BobToms100 Sts set hwk task to find out which make & model their dad's car was b4 spdsht creation. Sts researched MPG internet in class @shyj #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:28:57 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84055372167524352 - #104

@stefras @J0yfulOne Bending the math to fit a cover story is often a big problem we have to deal with. Should bend cover story. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:29:19 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84055466715516928 - #105

@J0yfulOne I think students can bring in questions. It always helps with engagement if the students are invested #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:29:21 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84055474772783104 - #106

Friday, 24th June 2011

How do I find compelling problems that grab student attention?

@J0yfulOne I think students can bring in questions. It always helps with engagement if the students are invested #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:29:21 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84055474772783104 - #107

@ColinTGraham @J0yfulOne Wow! = grabbing attention, in this context, as opposed to say the "fantastic/super" meaning... how to build from Wow! #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:29:56 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84055622106099713 - #108

@shyj @BobToms100 That makes great sense to me. Math is needed to solve the problem and so it isn't so isolated #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:30:02 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84055645443211265 - #109

@stefras @ColinTGraham Students and teachers should find problems. Could have "research" groups to do this. Then jig jig-saw. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:30:10 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84055679043780608 - #110

@stefras @shyj What is PBL? #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:30:44 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84055821058719745 - #111

@shyj I had my Ts do several experiments and record their reaction times. The math grew out of that and lots of questions. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:30:50 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84055848212631552 - #112

@stefras RT @shyj: @ColinTGraham I think Ts may have to model at first, then do a "with" approach, then the Ss #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:31:04 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84055905922068480 - #113

@J0yfulOne Agreed @stefras about the cover story. I find it a harder challenge to find a cover story with math that is suitable for my class #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:31:05 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84055909051011073 - #114

@shyj @stefras Problem based learning or some would say project based learning. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:31:17 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84055962104758273 - #115

@shyj @stefras I think there is a difference between the two #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:31:44 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84056075220959232 - #116

@BobToms100 @ColinTGraham We can create environment for sts to come up with probs that need solving (to understand maths) & surprise us #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:31:48 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84056092711206913 - #117

@stefras @shyj That is cover story and problem solving. Sneaking math into topic students are studying. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:32:05 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84056161757835265 - #118

Friday, 24th June 2011

How do I find compelling problems that grab student attention?

@ColinTGraham @shyj So a problem from the context... not the same as going in with something that Ss automatically say: "Oh, we need maths" #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:32:38 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84056299767218176 - #119

@shyj @stefras Oooo- sounds sneaky! #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:32:55 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84056371993116672 - #120

@shyj @ColinTGraham Yeah, in that way kids can see how math fits into every day problems.I think it helps build connections and transfer #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:33:46 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84056586229792768 - #121

@ColinTGraham @J0yfulOne @BobToms100 How would you handle a problem which might need advanced calculus, brought in by, say, a 12yo? #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:33:50 +0000 2011 - tweet id 8405660390038 84056603900387328 - #122

@stefras Discussion and feedback of a problem enriches the learning of math. math.#mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:34:00 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84056646548078593 - #123

@shyj I really want to get my teachers out of the "math is a set of skills that must be taught by me" mode this year. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:34:38 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84056806049067008 - #124

@ColinTGraham @stefras PBL can be problem based learning or project problem-based project-based learning... each slightly different in approach/outcome #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:35:05 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84056918737428481 - #125

@J0yfulOne @colintgraham usually there is a brute force way to handle a problem so that calculus isn't needed. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:35:23 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84056994880831489 - #126

@shyj @stefras Exactly! There must be some kind of reflection after the problem/project. SO many connections are created at that point! #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:35:24 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84056995765829632 - #127

@J0yfulOne #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:35:26 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84057004825518080 - #128

@stefras @J0yfulOne I think this is where math labs and math projects come in. Problem questions are like minis of these. re covery story #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:35:29 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84057016993202176 - #129

@BobToms100 @ColinTGraham Tbh, task was hard for most of the class More modelling was needed beforehand. Learning for me as a teacher. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:35:32 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84057029 84057029064400896 - #130

Friday, 24th June 2011

How do I find compelling problems that grab student attention?

@J0yfulOne @colintgraham depending on the student, I will take him/her as far as they can go with the math they know #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:36:19 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84057226628702208 - #131

@ColinTGraham @J0yfulOne The keypoint is whether the teacher can recognize this, though... requires skilled/confident mathematics teachers ; #mathchat ;-)
Fri Jun 24 00:36:21 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84057235138949120 - #132

@DrMorpheus Taking class time for students to find problems is worrisome. I see students for 80 minutes every other day #mathchat #time
Fri Jun 24 00:36:27 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84057262301265920 - #133

@stefras @shyj Not all problem solving need be project based. Could be just questions. http://bit.ly/stefpolymult #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:37:01 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84057402323910656 - #134

@ColinTGraham @shyj Do you think the "set of skills", which should be taught I think, ends up being "set of procedures" in many teachers' minds? #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:37:26 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84057507970039808 - #135

@stefras LOL! Aren't we devils. RT @shyj: @stefras Oooo sounds sneaky! #mathchat OoooFri Jun 24 00:38:06 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84057675473764352 - #136

@shyj @J0yfulOne @colintgraham Why slow a S down if they can handle it? So much lrning takes place when there is a need. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:38:15 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84057712924696576 - #137

@J0yfulOne In order to do any REAL math, you need skilled, qualified math teachers #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:38:15 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84057714413670400 - #138

@BobToms100 @ColinTGraham #mathchat @J0yfulOne I'm not a maths specialist, s I so can't say. Is there a simpler way to solv… (cont) http://deck.ly/~y7fx6
Fri Jun 24 00:38:20 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84057737004204032 - #139

@shyj Why does math learning have to be on a schedule? I never did understand that! #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:38:47 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84057849826787328 - #140

@stefras @ColinTGraham Can this advanced calculus problem be solved visually? #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:38:58 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84057893439152128 - #141

@ColinTGraham @BobToms100 So, in some situations, if you exploring a problem, you may need to do a lot of scaffolding of tasks to succeed? #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:39:03 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84057915253735424 - #142

Friday, 24th June 2011

How do I find compelling problems that grab student attention?

@stefras RT @J0yfulOne: @colintgraham usually there is a brute force way to handle a problem so that calculus isn't needed. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:39:30 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84058030550949888 - #143

@shyj @ColinTGraham Yes, I do, procedures that are unrelated to other things. That's partly why kids don't internalize the learning. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:39:33 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84058041577783296 - #144

@J0yfulOne @shyj that's why I said it would depend on the student. If the student can handle the math, i'd take them there #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:39:34 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84058044543156224 - #145

@shyj @J0yfulOne I wish more Ts would do just that! #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:39:57 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84058142878605313 - #146

@suehamilton @stefras I can access samples of exams from any grade. I teach gr 7/8 so will try to upload something #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:39:57 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84058142081695745 - #147

@ColinTGraham @stefras The main point I'm making is that we don't often think about a student-oriented way of approaching solutions. #mathchat oriented
Fri Jun 24 00:40:12 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84058203398225920 - #148

@shyj So where Do you guys get your math ideas from? I'm going to steal -errrr-borrow ur ideas! #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:40:58 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84058398689202176 - #149

@ColinTGraham @stefras When we 'know' the most efficient way is to, say, integrate, we forget that the 'brute force' method can work too... #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:40:59 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84058401214181376 - #150

@J0yfulOne @colintgraham you have to know your students to be effective. If you don't come close to an approach they can relate to, u'v lost #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:41:56 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84058641547796480 - #151

@stefras @DrMorpheus In this case we need to provide a problem story or puzzle http://bit.ly/stefmathlabs. Students discover/solve it. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:42:02 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84058668131303424 - #152

@BobToms100 @ColinTGraham #mathchat Absolutely, skills work & coaching. Litt by Little little, lots of practice. Can't expec… (cont) http://deck.ly/~oHjRT
Fri Jun 24 00:42:20 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84058742148182016 - #153

@stefras @ColinTGraham Skills as procedures . Yes. Either because of time constraints or lack of confidence in math. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:42:58 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84058899422003200 - #154

Friday, 24th June 2011

How do I find compelling problems that grab student attention?

@shyj @ColinTGraham What is meant, exactly, by "brute force? #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:43:12 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84058960214237184 - #155

@J0yfulOne My ideas come from what I see everyday. When I see a topic students are interested in, I start looking for the math #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:43:16 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84058977431855104 - #156

@ColinTGraham How does the nature of compelling problems and attention attention-grabbing change as Ss get older... or does it? #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:43:41 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84059080196493312 - #157

@shyj @stefras Neither of which is a benefit to students' learning. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:44:08 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84059193291714560 - #158

@stefras @shyj Math learning shouldn't be on a schedule, but the curriculum is. Limited time, lots to learn = schedule. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:44:20 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84059243921162240 - #159

@DrMorpheus @stefras Thanks for link. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:44:22 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84059251697397760 - #160

@J0yfulOne Brute force is the less elegant, heavy lifting method....like doing guess and check instead of writing/solving equation #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:44:34 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84059303119556608 - #161

@Teacherhorizons RT @ColinTGraham: How does the nature of compelling problems and attention-grabbing change as Ss get older... or does it? #mathchat grabbing
Fri Jun 24 00:44:48 +0000 2011 - tweet id 840593607 84059360732512256 - #162

@ColinTGraham @shyj eg: a 'brute force' method would be drawing lots of small unit squares under a curve & counting, as opposed to integrating #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:45:07 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84059440692736000 - #163

@shyj @ColinTGraham I think as kids get older they sometimes prefer the spoon spoon-fed method. Less work on their part. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:45:08 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84059444257886208 - #164

@shyj @ColinTGraham Got cha! Thanks #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:45:33 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84059549958545408 - #165

@BobToms100 @ColinTGraham #mathchat T&L has to be differentiated. If one has the L resources, put them online or paper versi… (cont) http://deck.ly/~9OOPg
Fri Jun 24 00:45:52 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84059629549662208 - #166

@shyj @stefras Seems like a broken system to me #mathchat
Friday, 24th June 2011 How do I find compelling problems that grab student attention?

Fri Jun 24 00:45:53 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84059634532483072 - #167

@stefras @shyj I left some links in this chat. See archives. Feel free to use what you like. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:46:21 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84059754879664128 - #168

@ccampbel14 #mathchat I find great problems from John van de Walle, Marilyn Burns & Marian Small resources for K-9.
Fri Jun 24 00:46:26 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84059772390871040 - #169

@J0yfulOne As students get older, I think you have a lot more compelling topics...and you can solve problems they are experiencing #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:46:53 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84059889101570048 - #170

@shyj @ccampbel14 Thanks for the resources! #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:47:15 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84059978918408192 - #171

@ColinTGraham @BobToms100 Maybe gifted/talented students are more likely to be 'hooked' early and/or lose interest early, so yes differentiate #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:47:20 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84060000770736128 - #172

@stefras @ColinTGraham True. Often we forget the basics in light of the most efficient. Some times the best teachers don't know the topic. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:47:33 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84060054206169088 - #173

@shyj phone call....darn it...got to take it #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:47:35 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84060062372466688 - #174

@stefras @ColinTGraham I am not sure that the nature of compelling problems and attention-grabbing one do change; the problems do though. #mathchat grabbing
Fri Jun 24 00:49:04 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84060436739276800 - #175

@BobToms100 @ColinTGraham It's all about getting to know one's sts & preparing for them when they are ready to engage w/what u offer them #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:49:10 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84060 84060462131593216 - #176

@ColinTGraham @stefras I think, also, it's easy to forget the process we each went through ourselves before the 'light switch' moment of got it! #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:49:29 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84060539508097025 - #177

@stefras @ColinTGraham We look for novelty. Wha tis novel to the young is ho ho-hum to the old. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:49:33 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84060559795953664 - #178

@EmergentMath RT @shyj: I really want to get my teachers out of the "math is a set of skills that must be taught by me" mode this year. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:49:53 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84060641660370944 - #179

Friday, 24th June 2011

How do I find compelling problems that grab student attention?

@BobToms100 @ColinTGraham ...which will be on the back of what they want to do, cos you involved them in the process & not just told them #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:49:56 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84060 84060655338004480 - #180

@stefras Lost context! :( RT @shyj: @stefras Neither of which is a benefit to students' learning. #mathchat Seems like a broken system to me
Fri Jun 24 00:50:14 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84060729807863808 - #181

@ColinTGraham @stefras Novelty, maybe, but "magic" has a way of drawing people in, whatever the age... as does demonstration of 'real' talent? #mathchat ever
Fri Jun 24 00:50:38 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84060832228585472 - #182 4060832228585472

@DrMorpheus @shyj Agree. I have 8th grd who aren't motivated.. Want answers given to them. Probably what they had been getting before #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:51:13 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84060976009314304 - #183

@stefras So lazy or busy? RT @shyj: @ColinTGraham As kids get older they sometimes prefer the spoon-fed method. Less work on their part. #mathchat fed
Fri Jun 24 00:51:15 +0000 2011 - tweet id 840 84060984603459584 - #184

@EmergentMath @ColinTGraham I don't think it does change. Engagement, collaboration, relevance all equally important to all Sts #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:52:11 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84061219811622913 - #185

@ColinTGraham I am constantly surprised (shouldn't be though), that adults and children alike are fascinated by simple origami "action toys" #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:52:19 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84061254272024577 - #186

@J0yfulOne I don't want students to think math is "magical". Magic is an illusion and unattainable to most. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:52:22 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84061268276805632 - #187

@BobToms100 @ColinTGraham All sts are individuals & thus progress & readiness is indivdual. Differentiate for every child is ideal, but tough #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:52:54 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84061403266297857 - #188

@shyj @stefras Both? #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:53:07 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84061457670619136 - #189

@ColinTGraham @J0yfulOne But 'magic' tricks and puzzles, juggling, etc. can be ways of "grabbing attention"... How does that card trick work...? #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:53:25 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84061532002070528 - #190

@stefras RT @ColinTGraham: "magic" has a way of drawing people in, what ever the age... as does demonstration of 'real' talent? #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:53:35 +0000 2011 - tweet id 840615742219 84061574221934593 - #192

Friday, 24th June 2011

How do I find compelling problems that grab student attention?

@J0yfulOne @colintgraham when you find people in awe over origami, are they interested in learning themselves, or do they just want to watch #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:53:51 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84061640345137152 - #193

@BobToms100 @ColinTGraham #mathchat Tough on the teacher. Get to know kids early on will help you - traffic light paper cups system is great.
Fri Jun 24 00:53:52 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84061642412920832 - #194

@EmergentMath Places to find interesting math problems: everywhere. #mathchat #notveryhelpful
Fri Jun 24 00:53:58 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84061668111429632 - #195

@suehamilton @stefras try this bit.ly/mFmTU8 its a June exam gr 7. 2 parts, situational problem 120 min, application questions 120 min #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:54:13 +0000 2011 - tweet id 840617305 84061730501689344 - #196

@stefras @ColinTGraham But origami is fun and mysterious. You see the roduct "bloom" from folds that don't make apparent sense. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:54:51 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84061889973325824 - #197

@ColinTGraham @J0yfulOne Well, that's the point... some want to learn how to make it, others just enjoy the "wow!" moment... #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:55:20 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84062013164232704 - #198

@stefras @J0yfulOne Worng kind of "magic", same as "WOW!" #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:55:21 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84062015714369536 - #199

@stefras Yes lost context for both. :( RT @shyj: @stefras Both? #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:55:48 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84062132324417536 - #200

@stefras @J0yfulOne I think some want to watch and some want to try. I know most want to learn and try from experience. #origami and other #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:56:54 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84062406074056704 - #201

@ColinTGraham I tend to think the most compelling types of problem are those which offer complexity from something apparently simple. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:57:05 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84062454782 84062454782500866 - #202

@stefras @suehamilton Thanks. I am sure we will all look at it. Join #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:57:39 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84062597153964032 - #203

@J0yfulOne @colintgraham that is why I would avoid Wow moments. I want to engage. I don't need another reason for S's to sit back (content) #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:58:04 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84062702359691264 - #204

Friday, 24th June 2011

How do I find compelling problems that grab student attention?

@J0yfulOne And think they can't do math #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:58:20 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84062766897430528 - #205

@ColinTGraham The final five minutes, now.... any last thoughts/comments about "How do I find compelling problems that grab student attention?" #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:58:30 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84062812489523200 - #206

@stefras Yes! RT @ColinTGraham: The most compelling types of problem are those which offer complexity from something apparently simple. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:58:31 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84062816516055040 - #207

@shyj Sorry I had to bail...still on the phone...really enjoyed this chat! #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:59:40 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84063104761208832 - #208

@ColinTGraham @J0yfulOne Yes, there is a danger of too much grabbing attention and not enough compulsion! Entertainment versus engagement... #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:59:54 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84063161321406464 - #209

@stefras @J0yfulOne But the nature of the WOW! is to draw them in, to want to try, not to watch. Wow is in the context; not presentation. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 00:59:59 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84 84063183849013249 - #210

@EmergentMath @ColinTGraham Design problems with multiple entry points. Make it accessible to all students right from the start. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 01:00:37 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84063341252845568 - #211

@stefras @EmergentMath Also with multiple solution routes and exit points. points.#mathchat
Fri Jun 24 01:01:02 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84063447666540545 - #213

@suehamilton My friend taught probability to gr 4 5 with playing black jack LOL 4-5 LOL#mathchat
Fri Jun 24 01:01:23 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84063534954184704 - #214

@ColinTGraham For me the Wow! is ... "Is this something I can do?" as against "No way I could do that!" We should be aiming for the first one. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 01:01:33 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84063579938103296 - #215

@stefras @EmergentMath So an open ended puzzle works, particularly if assumptions must be made. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 01:01:41 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84063611785457664 - #216

@J0yfulOne Language is a big issue in math. If you are using Wow and Magic to explain the type of problem you are looking for, you will ... #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 01:01:42 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84063615166070784 - #217

Friday, 24th June 2011

How do I find compelling problems that grab student attention?

@MariaDroujkova @ColinTGraham Pose problems with infinitely many answers & let students name answers after themselves: it's compelling! #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 01:02:02 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84063701036 84063701036052480 - #218

@BobToms100 Last 1 from me, ecology meet maths: calculate area of a tree's leaves use area calcs for juniors & counting leaves for infants #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 01:02:07 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84063719369355264 - #219

@J0yfulOne Continue to present problems that make students step back and think they can't do it, #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 01:02:15 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84063754383400960 - #220

@suehamilton The problem will grab attention if I make it 'sound' exciting #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 01:02:20 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84063774373462016 - #221

@ColinTGraham @suehamilton I learned card counting by playing whist with my grandparents when I was 5 or 6yo... #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 01:02:31 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84063821806837760 - #222

@MariaDroujkova RT @davidwees: @stefras Here's the link for the open discussion group on "A Mathematician's Lament" http://bit.ly/iwYj4w #mathchat /cc @ ...
Fri Jun 24 01:02:36 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84063843533328384 - #223

@stefras Wow! RT @MariaDroujkova: Pose problems with infinitely many answers & let students name answers after themselves: it's compelling! #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 01:02:45 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84063878220234753 - #224

@J0yfulOne I agree, @colintgraham we need to shoot for problems that will make students want to know how to solve, rather than be in awe #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 01:04:20 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84064277891268609 - #225

@ColinTGraham OK, thanks for your contributions everyone! Check out #anyqs if you haven't seen it. That's one way to introduce 'compulsion' #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 01:04:59 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84064442484133888 - #226

@stefras Grab attention + keep + compel to solve = wow! http://bit.ly/mCR0FJ and bit.ly/mCR0FJ http://bit.ly/l8UwqW #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 01:05:42 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84064620431675393 - #227

@delta_dc RT @MariaDroujkova: New blog post: Metaphors explaining Khan Academy http://t.co/l5Vgn3y #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 01:05:49 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84064653398900736 - #228

@ColinTGraham Follow @mathchat to keep updated, and also follow some of the new Tweeps! #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 01:06:07 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84064725536751616 - #229

Friday, 24th June 2011

How do I find compelling problems that grab student attention?

@ColinTGraham We revisit today's topic on Monday... details on the #mathchat Wiki: http://bit.ly/codZeQ
Fri Jun 24 01:06:56 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84064931560947712 - #230

@stefras Thanks again @ColinTGraham. Good topic. See you Monday. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 01:07:02 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84064957863436288 - #231

@stefras RT @cybraryman1: I have some origami sites here: http://tinyurl.com/6l3bqyt Tesselations here: http://tinyurl.com/yfub9qx #mathchat tinyurl.com/yfub9qx
Fri Jun 24 01:07:35 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84065097844133888 - #232

@ColinTGraham I may not be with you next week on Thursday or the following Monday, so do #mathchat without me... you're old enough to do it yourselves!
Fri Jun 24 01:08:15 +0000 2011 - tweet id 840 84065263905013761 - #233

@stefras @ColinTGraham Oh ... I don't know... #mathchat ;-) You might come b ) back and find it broken!
Fri Jun 24 01:09:11 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84065500228890624 - #234

@shyj Finally off the phone...thanks so much for the great #mathchat everyone!
Fri Jun 24 01:14:37 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84066864933765120 - #236

@stefras @shyj Thank you. #mathchat
Fri Jun 24 01:14:53 +0000 2011 - tweet id 84066934408216577 - #237

Friday, 24th June 2011

How do I find compelling problems that grab student attention?

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