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Timothy Bowen interviews the chaos makers
Voices of Chaos
cc 2011 Timothy Bowen Voices of Chaos is licensed by a Published by Timothy Bowen Publishing Creative Commons Attribution-Share-alike 2.0 license Published by Timothy Bowen andTimothy Bowen Publishing © 2007 Thomas Bryan McSweeny
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Voices of Chaos is licensed by a
Other TitlesMouths of Babes to the Pit of Despair From the by Timothy Bowen All content* Arkansas © 2007 Timothy Bowen Hallucinating Arkansas Hallucinating Copyright
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and the perspective interviewee All rights reserved. No portion of this book can be reproduced without consent of the Jonesboria Discordia Voices of Chaos author(s), however I’m sure if you asked nicely everything would be cool.
Jonesboria I hope you realize what you can do. In that case Discordia
*Unless otherwise noted as “Kopyleft- All Rights Reversed- Reprint What You Like”Fanpage:http://www.facebook.com/pages/Timothy-Bowen/172138416174586
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Timothy Bowen Publishing is in no way connected to My Pineal Gland, KSC; which is a subsidiary of Jonesboro’s House of Eris’ are meant to be representative of JHESFC, Timothy Bowen Publishing, Lulu Press or it’s parent or affiliate companies.
ISBN-10: Fnord Committee. The interviews conducted here in represent the opinions of the person being interviewed and in no way Science and 1461175712
Library of Congress Cataloging in Publication Data Various Authors Voices of Chaos 1. Religion and Spirituality – Case Studies
2011 First Printing -2007
Adam Gorightly Reverend Loveshade Chaplin IM False, KSC Spratzaman Rojas Peter Carroll The Discordian Society LOB Rev.Dr. Jon Swabey BOB001 Rev. Ivan Stang Rev. St. Syn KSC JHESFC Beatus Ffungo Appendix Afterward
4 12 16 20 22 28 33 37 40 44 48 53 57 64 73
Do you consider what you wrote in your book, Prankster and the Conspiracy, about Kerry's predisposition towards sex with children to be metaphorical, satirical, or dog gone truth? Well, there are plenty of metaphors and satire in The Prankster and the Conspiracy, but the question you’ve asked falls more into the category of “dog gone truth”, although what the complete truth is regarding Kerry Thornley--in regards to many unanswered questions-who knows? And “truth” is something that can change, and will change, with the more information you process. So “truth” is a word I have issues with, as it’s so damn subjective, and nobody’s “truth” will ever be quite the same as the next persons. I just reported the story of Kerry Thornley as best I could, but as with so many questions concerning Kerry, the verdict is still out, such as: did he meet with Oswald in New Orleans; was he involved in the JFK assassination; was he a victim of mk-ultra mind control—or all the above. We’ll probably never know for sure—we can only speculate. But to answer your question, I wouldn’t say that
Kerry had a predisposition towards sex with children. However, he was an idealist about all matters sexual, and his philosophy was documented pretty thoroughly in a series of magazine articles he wrote in the early 1970’s entitled Erotic Minority Liberation, where he defended nearly every sexual taboo, including exhibitionists, voyeurs, fetishists, pedophiles, transvestites, nymphomaniacs, obscene phone callers, animal lovers and sadomasochists. Now, I wouldn’t classify Kerry as a pedophile, as the only documented instance--which I wrote about in the book--occurred in the early 1970’s with Grace Zabriskie’s daughter, Marion. It was an episode where Kerry fondled Marion, who was 8 years old at the time. Knowing what I do about Kerry, he probably thought it was all good, letting nature take its course, that type of thing. Just all part of this philosophical approach he had to sex. Perhaps, he was simply experimenting, wanting to try at least
intriguing because Kerry claimed that he’d had a decade long affair with Grace, although Grace contended that they’d just had a one night stand. Whatever the case, Kerry’s wife, Cara, felt that one of the main things that led to Kerry’s mental unraveling was the end of this affair, or relationship, or whatever it was, with Grace Zabriskie. Zabriskie, for those unfamiliar, is probably most recognized as Sara Palmer from the Twin Peaks TV series of the late 1980’s. Anyway, that’s an extended answer to a seemingly simple question, but, as Paul Harvey says, “Now you know the rest of the story”. What would you say is more productive for those of us with the Discordian persuasion to do with our time; build upon the works that have come before, or abandon everything to do with Eris, and create or become our own gods? Can a person do both? All three?
everything once. Kerry, if anything, was naïve. I don’t think he was manipulative, or a predator. But there’s more to this story, as I discovered after having finished the book. A couple years back I was contacted by Grace Zabriskie, who I’d previously interviewed. At that time, Grace was looking for DNA samples of Kerry’s, and I worked as an intermediary, getting her in touch with other old friends of Kerry who had envelopes presumably with his saliva, possibly containing DNA. As it turned out, Grace suspected--as did many other people--that Marion was Kerry’s daughter, as she looks a heck of a lot like Kerry’s son, Kreg, I’ve been told, and has a lot of the same mannerisms. All of this is very
Personally, I don’t have much of an interest in current day Discordianism, beyond the simple chaotic beauty of Eris worship itself. And I don’t really see the point of building upon the works of those who came before, namely Wilson, Thornley and Hill, as much of what goes on these days in the name of Discordianism just seems like so many stale riffs on a tired tune. This is not to say I’ll ever abandon Eris, because, really, there’s no way to, she’s impossible to escape, even if I wanted to, the crazy bitch. So you might as well enjoy the ride on the Goddess’s mad chariot, and hold on for dear life. But yes, in addition to Eris, I think we need to create and become our own gods. I have written about this in a
poem, from my book The Beast of Adam Gorightly, entitled, “The Word”: God came to me, and said, “I, your lord God, am not real, forget me, go on living. There’s so little time to do, don’t waste your time in thoughts of me. I am untouchable, unattainable in this revolving world of flesh. I come to you only when you come to yourself. Hold your heart in your hands and you will hold a part of me, or a measure of yourself reflecting my image.” “You are a child no longer. You need no father with invisible hands to guide you. If you do not scale the mountains yourself, how will you ever lose your fear of heights? If you do not plunge into the ocean, how will you ever learn to swim?” God said, “Kill me, so that you may learn to live.” Adam Gorightly, that's totally a pen name, isn't it?
small, but rabid cult following who dig my screwball work. So I stuck with the name recognition—or the name stuck with me. It’s like Eris—it’s kinda hard to shake. What was it like researching a book on Kerry Thornley? Oh, it was a blast writing the book. I got to meet a lot of cool people, some of the original Discordian conspirators, and out of that have developed some lasting friendships. In a way, it was also like being flung headfirst into a detective story, albeit a highly surreal detective story, what with trying to unravel the many strange spectres that surrounded Kerry Thornley throughout the course of this life. How did the simple word "KOPYLEFT" change the world? The concept of Kopyleft, or all Rights Reversed, has brought with it a paradigm shift of sorts to the planet, a concept which Discordianism was indeed a major precursor of. With the anarcho-libertarian possibilities of the Internet, this whole concept has run amok, praise Eris!, and even though corporations are continually struggling to fight this movement, this natural evolution, it seems like they’re
Yes, totally. I’m also known as The Wrong Reverend Houdini Kundalini of the Church of Unwavering Indifference, which is my name in The Discordian Society. But the reason I adopted the Gorightly non-deplume was due to certain somewhat controversial material I was writing in the early 1990’s that I didn’t want my real name attached to. This, in time, has led to a
fighting a losing battle, like Dinosaurs of old, they can’t keep up with the technologies that have made all this possible. My only concern is that the artists get their fair share, whatever that may be. And I’m not talking about Bono and U2, and the whining they did about Napster. I’m talking about the struggling writer or musician, who needs a piece of the pie to survive and continue doing their thing. On
the same token, the Internet has created an environment where you can do all these things (blogging, composing and podcasting music and hosting webradio shows) that allow people opportunities that were not present pre-Internet. Yes, this--in many ways--was a result of the early days of the Discordian Movement, this proliferation of information, including weird and funny information—or disinformation, as the case may be. Is magick real? Yes, magick is as real as you want it to be. Sometimes too real. There were a lot of magickal things, synchronous things, that happened during the course of writing The Prankster and the Conspiracy. One of the most noteworthy instances of this was receiving an email from a fellow named Bob Newport, one of the original members of The Discordian Society, during the period when I first started researching the life and times of Kerry Thornley, and not really sure if it was actually going to amount to anything, no less a book. Anyway, one day I received this email from Newport, in early 2000, as I recall, informing me that Greg Hill had died. And what was really strange about it was that I had no idea who this Newport fellow was at the time and, to boot, he contacted me at
sending the email. Sounds like Goddess intervention, if you ask me, because without Newport’s help, I probably never would have written the book, as he alone provided the most material, which included the bulk of Greg Hill’s Discordian archives. And without this material I wouldn’t have had much to work with it, as it not only included some of the original Discordian documents, but also numerous letters Thornley had written Hill over the years, really chronicling his life from the late 1950’s up until the very end. Newport also put me in touch with a number of key people, including Louise Lacey, another early member of the Discordian Society, who also contributed mightily to the book, and with her, as well, I experienced a number of synchronicities, one which is documented in The Prankster and the Conspiracy. There were several other synchronicities associated with the writing of The Shadow Over Santa Susana and The Prankster and the Conspiracy, One of these synchronistic threads started in the early 90’s when I contributed to Tim Cridland’s great underground mag of the period, Off The Deep End. In the final issue of OTDE, (published before Tim transitioned from zinester to a member of The Jim Rose Circus Sideshow) the cover art featured the creepily wonderful work of an artist known only as
a private email address, not the public one that’s listed on my website. Very few people know about this email addy, or that it belongs to “Adam Gorightly”. Later, when I asked Newport how he’d come to contact me, he had no idea, so this remains a perpetual mystery. I mean, Newport claims he had no idea who I was either, at the time, nor did he really remember
Years later, while working on The Shadow Over Santa Susana, I contacted Tim in an attempt to track down this mysterious artist about doing the book’s cover. As it turned out, Tim was still in contact with the artist in question, a lady living on the Oregon coast named Ashleigh Talbot, who at one time had been the official artist of Jim Rose’s Circus, and in fact had collaborated on a book about the
troupe entitled Circus of the Scars, cowritten with her husband, Jan Gregor, former manager of Jim Rose’s Circus. To promote their book, Ashleigh and Jan launched a website named, appropriately enough, Circusofthescars.com. Eventually, I made contact with Ashleigh and she agreed to do the cover artwork for The Shadow Over Santa Susana, which turned out to be as wonderfully creepy as anything else she‘s ever produced. (And that’s saying quite a lot!) In the meantime, I’d started contributing to Tracy Twyman’s Dagobert’s Revenge, and it was through this connection that I came into contact with James Bergman, a staff writer for the magazine. In due time, I discovered that James was a talented graphic artist, and approached him about taking Madame Talbot’s artwork and creating a graphic art design around it for The Shadow Over Santa Susana. This, of course, he did, to great effect. Anyway, unbeknownst to myself and Madame Talbot, the multi-talented Mr. Bergman was the leader of a musical group called Circus of the Scars, which turned out to be just one of many synchronicities associated with The Shadow Over Santa Susana. Bear in mind that James had no foreknowledge of Jan and Ashleigh’s Circus of the Scars book before I informed him of its existence some time after he’d finished the graphic design for The Shadow Over Santa Susana. And, in fact, at one point during this period, he tried to secure the circusofthescars domain name and discovered that someone else had already purchase it, who just happened to be….you guessed it, Ashleigh Talbot! Throughout the course of writing The Shadow and The Prankster, a pattern of synchronistic connections continually emerged, such as the one noted above. This synchronistic pattern continued
throughout my spring 2004 book signing tour when James Bergman helped arrange a signing at Perihelion Arts in Phoenix, AZ, an outsider art gallery/fringe bookstore operated by the dynamic duo of Douglas Grant and Amy Young. While in Phoenix, I was a guest at Bergman’s home. It was there I met his 23toed cat, Diablo. (I shit you not: the cat has 23 toes! Hail Eris, to the extreme.) As it turned out, Perihelion Arts was also home to a sinister black cat that lived there at the gallery along with an actual clown painting by John Wayne Gacy! My next tour stop was Austin, Texas, where I stayed at the home of my pal, Dave Reimer, who, by the grace of the dark prince, also had a black cat. I think the Goddess was trying to tell me something. You also did a book on Charles Manson, how was that different than the Prankster? What do they have in common? What started me initially researching Manson were all these conspiracy theories I’d heard over the years which involved some sort of military mind control experiment, and that the Manson Family were used as guinea pigs, which resulted in the Tate/LaBianca murders. And so I embarked down that path, or into the rabbit hole, I guess, and somewhere along the line I decided to go much deeper than just the conspiracy theory angle, and look at the whole Manson Family experience, in all it’s blazing gory. The Shadow differs from The Prankster in how I conducted the research. For The Shadow I read damn near every book, and any other Manson related materials I could lay my hands on, and constructed The Shadow in that manner, telling the whole psychedelically tragic tale, admittedly doing little, if any, first
hand research, but nonetheless giving my own unique spin on the tale. Whatever the case, The Shadow has been called the most comprehensive book on the Manson Family, weighing in at an alarming 576 pages. Whereas the research for The Prankster consisted of contacting as many of Kerry’s old friends as I could to put together the story of his tragic and colorful life. Robert Anton Wilson was another key person I interviewed about Kerry, and he also wrote the intro to The Prankster. Recently, I intended Wilson’s meme-orial service, where I met Scott Apel, a good friend of Wilson’s. Apel said that Wilson one day gave him a reading assignment, which was The Prankster and the Conspiracy, and said: “If you want to know what the early days of The Discordian Society was about, it’s all here.” That made my day when Scott shared that with me. Who really killed JFK? What does this have to do with Discordianism? If I knew who killed JFK I probably wouldn’t be here speaking to you right now….I’m not exactly sure that Discordianism had any thing to do with the JFK assassination, but Jim Garrison certainly believed that the Discordian Society was a CIA front, and that Kerry Thornley--a card carrying member of the Discordian Society--was a CIA operative who was part of a team that covered up the JFK assassination. Later, Kerry came to believe this very same thing, and that Robert Anton Wilson, another cardcarrying member of the Discordian Society, had been his brain washer and
mind controller, mk-ultra style. Wilson wrote about this period in his great book, Cosmic Trigger, and also in the intro to my The Prankster and the Conspiracy. What does "crackpot historian" mean? Crackpot history is a double-edged sword. I write about a lot of interesting and colorful characters who could be classified as “crackpots”. On the other hand, a lot of people suspect the same of me. Recently, I lectured at a UFO conference, and afterwards I had a table set up selling my books, with a little sign that said, “Adam Gorightly: Crackpot Historian.” And I had one fellow who approached me and started going on about crockpots. I just nodded my head, not knowing how to respond. So I guess now I’m a “crockpot historian”, as well! Hail Eris! What are you working on now? Currently, I’m working on a number of projects, including a biography of James Shelby Downard, who believed that a vast freemasonic conspiracy was behind the JFK assassination parade, as well as a huge book project which will probably take me the better part of this decade, chronicling my experiences in the realms of conspiracy theory and high weirdness. Also, a lot of time recently has been devoted to my web radio show, Untamed Dimensions, where I talk to folks on the cutting edge of conspiracy theory and paranormal research. Check it out at: www.blogtalkradio.com/Gorightly
What would you like to see people doing in the field of Discordianism? The Prankster and the Conspiracy, in many ways, was a historical document, in regards to the origins of Discordianism, and I would like to see other people also look into the history of the movement, and some of the more interesting people involved, like Camden Benares, Robert Anton Wilson, Louise Lacey and in particular Greg Hill. I also have a lot of rare Discordian artifacts which I intend someday (with the consent of certain unmade Discordians) to turn into a major Internet project, and/or a book project of some sort. But that’s a long ways off. However, I am encouraged to hear there’s a new version of the Principia Discordia that’s now out, with an outtro by yours truly.
What makes you smile? Roller derby girls hipping checking each other into submission! When you wake up in the morning, what is the first thing that you normally do? Piss, dodge the cats (who want to play/get fed and attack my ankles) on my way to a pot of coffee and then see what weird email awaits me in my inbox. That’s a typical morning. Pretty mundane and routine, I must admit. But once I get a head full of coffee, watch out! Would you rather have a normal life, life of meaning, or happy life? Is there a difference? If so, what? I think a life of meaning is a happy life.
A self-described “crackpot historian”, Adam Gorightly is the author of The Shadow Over Santa Susana: Black Magic, Mind Control, and “The Manson Family” Mythos and The Prankster and The Conspiracy: The Story of Kerry Thornley and How He Met Oswald and Inspired the Counterculture. Adam has been a guest on radio talk shows across the U.S. and Canada and his articles have appeared in numerous publications such as The Excluded Middle, UFO Magazine, Paranoia and SteamShovel Press. Contact Adam at your own risk at email@example.com Visit The Offical Adam Gorightly Blog for the most up to date musings inside his head. http://blogorightly.blogspot.com/
Why write and publish Ek-sen-trik-kuh Discordia? And who is Shamlicht? To misquote a line from The Blues Brothers movie-musical, "We're on a mission from Goddess." We believe that Discordianism is a valid philosophy that promotes accepting others by accepting different perspectives on reality. And we love its use of humor and even absurdity, for disorder really is as important as order. Some of our creative work actually involves rolling dice. We're using Ek-sen-trik-kuh Discordia: The Tales of Shamlicht to fight prejudice, particularly those varieties that are still generally accepted, such as sexism and ageism. We believe a person is a person, and shouldn't be judged and crammed in a box based on genitalia, summers lived, pigment, what kind of hat they wear to temple, body part size, or even who or what they like to get consensually intimate with. As part of this, we often use the word "e" as a non-sexist substitute for "he" or "she," "em" for "him" or "her," etc. As for Cherub Princess Shamlicht, our Patron Angel has the holy butt that oracular primates fly out of, and is the daughter of Eris/Discordia, Aneris/Harmonia, and the two-headed serpent Dildo Diploos. How long have you been working on it? On the book, or on Princess Shamlicht? I started writing Discordian pieces back in 1994 very shortly after I first saw Principia Discordia, which happened to be the Steve Jackson Games printing. First BloodStar and then several others posted some of my pieces online. One of them, "Five Blind Men and an Elephant," has since been included in several Erisian and even some non-Erisian publications and websites, and was even the subject of a commentary by a candidate for the U. S. Senate. Not bad for something I ripped off from the Hindus and Jainists and mercilessly twisted to make it Discordian. I didn't write any more Discordian stuff for 10 years. Then the conception for our book came on 2 July 2005, Mid Year's Day, while I was in hiding on a friend's small farm in
Texas. The inspiration largely came out of our battle with The Agents of Greyface, i.e. local, state and federal authorities, who seized many of our writings and other works, and even arrested some of us in their democracy-spouting fight against freedom. The book is our bit for freedom of speech, freedom of religion and other obscene Godless heresies. What sets this book apart from all the other "sequels" to the Principia? When Ek-sen-trik-kuh Discordia: The Tales of Shamlicht began, I had been in virtual isolation for quite a while and quite honestly wasn't familiar with any 21st century Discordian works other than Apocrypha Discordia. But they've been popping up like nipples at an ice-massage parlor. The vast majority of these works fall into one of two categories: literary Discordian compilations that are rooted largely in Principia Discordia, especially the excellent collections Apocrypha Discordia and The Book of Eris-get them both, now; and personal Discordian expressions that aren't necessarily very literary. That's OK; your personal expression can be whatever you want it to be, as long as it doesn't interfere with my right to be a social deviant. Our book is unique--or will be when we start looking for and find a publisher. It's a collection with many contributors, but most of the work was specifically created for the book, and it reveals a fresh Discordian and Personist perspective. It also has a lot more art, including original and classic photography, sculpture, painting, cartooning, etc. The vast majority of the writing was created or edited by professional writers, and our contributors include professional and published scientists, researchers, clergy,
activists, criminals, prostitutes, photographers, artists, as well as talented amateurs being published for the first time. Currently, our contributors hail from all over planet Earth (and supposedly from off planet), follow a great number of religious traditions and non-traditional philosophies, and range in age from 10 years old to senior citizen. Ek-sen-trik-kuh Discordia: The Tales of Shamlicht may also be the only Discordian work that had substantial portions of it seized by the authorities. That's with the exception of the seized play-in-progress West End Trash, a selection of which is included in our book. What that is written about you in your Uncyclopedia article is fact? The Uncyclopedia changes so fast it's hard to say what's true there now. But I like how the article currently relates "The Big Bang" to "The Second Coming." How do we advance the glory of Eris? I don't think we need to. Eris is glorious enough without our help. Especially when dressed in wet, thin white fabric with the sun shining through. Hot Damn! Explain what your "snooze letters" are and how readers can get them. They're our more-or-less monthly email letters that inform people what we're up to, let them tell others what they're up to, and include submitted writings as attachments, although that part is almost concluded now that the book is approaching completion. They can get them by looking for the email address on our website at discordia.loveshade.org, or see them on the site itself.
What would purple taste like? A bit like burgundy mixed with rose and violet. What are your goals for furthering the messages of Eris? I envision 6,000,000 people of all races, ages, sexes, etc. handing out Discordian tracts in all inhabited parts of the world on the same day while completely naked. Unfortunately, that's proved a bit difficult to organize. So for now I'll stick with the book and our website. Did I mention it's at discordia.loveshade.org ? What can an average reader of this book do to start down a path to enlightenment? Put down this book and feel the universe. Look at things as if you've never seen them before and don't know any words to describe them. Find beauty in ugliness, and music in what you think is only background noise. And find ugliness in beauty and noise in your favorite music. Smell something you've never smelled, eat something you've never tasted. Do something you've always wanted to do and something you've never thought of doing; go someplace you've never been where you know no one, preferably where you can't even speak the local language. Visit a palace, live on the street, attend a service for a religion you know nothing about, spend a few days in solitary confinement, share consensual physical intimacy with someone you would never think about sharing with. If someone was considering contacting Robert Anton Wilson's ghost, what suggestions would you give them for doing the séance?
I suppose I should come up with something witty for this question, but I still really miss the man who exposed me to the Illuminati and let me get away with calling em Grandbob. I guess you can read RAW's books, and have communion with the spirit of es writing. Adam Gorightly is totally a pen name, isn't it? No, it's a dessert topping. Really, I love es book, The Prankster and the Conspiracy, which is about Discordianism co-founder Kerry Thornley/Lord Omar Khayyam Ravenhurst and how e inspired the counter-culture. At Gorightly's request, we'll be featuring the book on our website. It tells how Thornley served in the military with Lee Harvey Oswald and was supposedly involved in the assassination of U. S. President John F. Kennedy. Sadly, the long-time mocker of paranoia went paranoically mad. I once heard Thornley rant about conspiracies when I was a kid hanging around a newspaper office in the very late 1980s or very early 1990s. This will make me sound really stupid, but I didn't realize it was Thornley I'd heard until last year. That's when I saw a 1992 photo from Tim Cridland in Gorightly's book. It's exactly how Thornley looked when I met em, even to the expression. Just how important are politics? Politics deals with access to limited resources. If you have two people who can't both have everything, you have politics. God really blew it when e made Adam's sex-changed clone Eve and put them in the same garden. If each of them and the serpent--and us--had our own homeland, we'd all be happily running
Eris is as real to me as Santa Claus
around naked, eating fruit and playing with animals all day. Of course our social and sex lives might be a bit limited. What can you do with a pineapple and a hamster? Hmm... What's going to happen in 2012? A major world figure will die; a shocking murder will happen on the American East Coast; there will be violence in the Middle East; people will support an utterly corrupt fool's rise to power; and a really stupid television program will get renewed for another year. Do you think Eris is a real being that can be contacted? Have you contacted her? Eris is as real to me as Santa Claus, Eristotle, Chao tse-Tung, the Perfect Orgasm, and a Just Government. I believe in them all, but don't see them very often. Are you being serious? The most obvious Discordian answer here is yes and no, in some sense. So I'll say no and yes, in nonsense. Aren't comic books really cool? Yes. Especially the ones you have to keep hidden from your stuffy aunt. And from The Agents of Greyface.
About Reverend Loveshade
The Rev is Episkopos of the Discordian Division of the Ek- sen-triks CluborGuild. A writer, theologist, polyamorist, naturist, philosophical humorist, and all-around good person troublemaker. Was the subject of a national investigation that tried to determine who e really was and what e was up to (yes, that part is true). Has a perhaps legitimate claim to official recognition by the United States of America as an infallible prophet of the All-Knowing God. (see site for details). "When I was a fifteen-year-old runaway, Reverend Loveshade saved my life. Because he was there for me, I never had to spend a single night sleeping on the streets. He gave me a place to sleep and live, and spent many thoughtful hours preparing me for a good-paying job servicing lonely men. Thank you, Reverend Loveshade!" Lxxxxx Sxxx "Before I met Reverend Loveshade, my life was purposeless and I was living in poverty. Now I'm making a very good living helping middle school and high school students find their way to happier and fulfilling lives using controlled substances." Dxxx Dxxxxx "Reverend Loveshade kicks ass! And when he does it, it feels sooooo good!" Axxxxxx Lxxxxx and then there’s these lies:
I've received some mailings from you and the 23rd street Cabal, and would like to know, how long you have been doing this, and what is your favorite thing to mail? I have been sending stuff through the mail for many years. The first thing that I recall sending is a cut out picture of Mr. Green Jeans pasted to a small postcard. For a few years I had access to a printing equipment and created lots of postcards, stickers, tickets, Discordian script, and stamps. My favorite thing to mail is a few of these items in the unsolicited postage paid envelopes that appear in the Chapel mailbox. I hope that the underpaid worker responsible for opening these things will stop working and have a Discordian moment. What is the 23rd street Chapal Headquarters? Is it somewhere people can visit? It is both my present day residence and a state of mind. Yes. If I decide to invite them into my home and yes if they have the will. How long have you been False? Assuming that you are referring to my Erisian name, Chaplin IM False, KSC, since 1992 or 1993.
Should there be Discordianism?
Nuns? What IS a Discordian Nun? In the Discordian hierachy that I am aware of there are Popes, Priests and Priestesses, Episkoposes, and Chaplins. I have never heard of a Discordian Nun... Why would anyone choose to become a Discordian Nun? Is a Discordian Nun similar to a Catholic Nun? Personally, I can not understand why anyone would choose to live a life that involves closing themself off to ANY experience because tenets and dogma says NO. Would you rather see Discordianism stay underground, or gather much larger numbers in global members? If the new members were ex-radical-right religious bigots... yes. The world might be a much better place to live in if more people stopped taking themselves so seriously and developed a sense of humor. The less Greyfaces in the wild - the better! Who would you cast in a movie about Eris? Forest Whitaker What role would Forest Whitaker play? Eris of course! You do realize that God¹s name is Eris and that He is a girl? Why would be the best person for that role? he
Dunno if I think that Forest Whitaker would be the _best_ person for that role but St. Gulik does. I know better than to argue with her! Is there such a thing as Too Much Discordianism? In what sense? Obviously, a sophisticated person like yourself recognizes that Eris is a Figurative Symbol for an Ineffable Metaphysical Reality and that The Erisian Movement is really more like a poem than like a science. Can one have too much poetry? Perhaps... Is Eris true? Reply hazy. Try again. Do you believe that? Is the 23rd Street Chapel really on 23rd street? Unfortunatly the rent in that part of town is more than the chapel treasury can afford. Someday, maybe... If you, or someone reading this, would like to offer the Chapel (and its tenents) a suitable living space on 23rd Street and pay the rent and moving expenses we would seriously consider relocating. Please send details to firstname.lastname@example.org. The Chapel Staph will consider your kind offer and respond in a timely manner. What is the deal with the number 23? Adding the two digits [two and three] together equals five. It is a prime number. It smells like honey barbequed
chicken. It sits between 22 and 24. It had the same exact rhythmic structure as the Turkey Curse. How much wood could a wood chuck chuck, that is, assuming a wood chuck could chuck wood? Many years ago I was told that, "he would chuck as much chuck as he could chuck." Today's politically correct textbooks state, "s/he would chuck as much chuck as s/he could chuck." which doesn't roll off the tongue as easily. Such is progress. You hear a lot these days about who and what God and Jesus hate. Who or what, would you say, Eris hates? Cabbages that try and impersonate human beings are the only things that Eris truly hates. So, how many times have you done the whole hotdog on Friday thing, really? Once as part of the Wholly Ritual of becoming a Chaplin as outlined in the Principia Discordia. One Friday a hot dog sans bun was ingested after dropping my nose printed Erisian Affirmation in the mail to The California State Bureau of Furniture and Bedding. Have you ever folded a single sheet of paper more than 7 times? No. I am more of a paper crumpler than a a paper folder. and one final question...
what goes on? 1. What Goes On (formerly known as The Block) is a yet to be aired television series on The N network. 2. What Goes On is a song by The Beatles. 3. What Goes On is a song written from The Velvet Underground's third album The Velvet Underground. 4. What Goes On is a fanzine on The Velvet Underground published between 1978 and 1996 by the Velvet Underground Appreciation Society. 5. What goes on according to Saint Frank
Zappa is Stops."
Could you write 5 Haiku's on Fnord? If so, do it.
5 Haiku's on Fnord Testy Culbert. No vocal cords. It protrudes. Harry Houdini.
Chaplin IM False: A Biography
I requested of the Goode Chaplynne that she send me something resembling an autobiography (I told her that it should be about her life, but that it need not be entirely accurate. Okay, I asked her to lie, if you must know). She was only too happy to comply. I was born in a small log cabin in Illinois. No, wait, that's our 16th Prez, Mr. Lincoln. Actually, I was the 3rd miscarriage and sole surviving humanoid type child of the pairing of the two people I like to call by parents. After they abandoned me in a nearby dumpster, I crawled out and found them, to their utmost dismay. Since the authorities had been notified that they were my parents they were now forced to feed, house and such me for the next 17 years. As a small child, it was noted that I had a certain flair for questioning and confusing anything that happened into my path. This annoyed most people, but by this point my parents had given up and had decided to just leave me alone since it caused them less distress. Thus, I was on the less traveled path of Discordianism. Many times during my childhood my parents tried to move away and leave me behind, but I always managed to find them due to the radio transmitters I had installed in their inner ears. We traveled from Massachusetts, my birthplace, to New York. From there, to Tierra Del Fuego. From there, Nome, Alaska. This pattern followed through Paris, France, Zurich, Switzerland, Johannesburg, South Africa, Kona, Hawaii, Denver, Colorado and finally St. Louis, Missouri. Because of this constant movement, I became aware of the ins and outs of dealing with authorities (passport peoples, customs peoples, etc.). I learned to question everything, since eventually they will stop hearing you in self-defense, and you can get away with just about anything. Other than that, I have been a ``workin' class hero'' and have been in a variety of positions (watch your dirty mind!). I have been a table busser, frame maker, batikist, nanny, chauffeur, food finder, gallery co-director, operating room technician, counter person, xerox machine key operator, printer, lithographer/press operator, and general pain in the ass. KooKooKaChoo. [About two weeks later, she wrote me again to clarify some points that she left out:]
For lack of a nail, the shoe was lost; for lack of a shoe, the horse was lost. For lack of a horse, there were no Westerns to watch and my parents out of boredom had sex. Hereafter, a child was born, and lo and behold it was I. There was no room at the Inn. I was born in a hospital because I wanted to be close to my mother. My family lived in ``projects'' the first few years of my life, since my father was newly discharged from the Coast Guard, and the price of a six pack of beer was quite costly. After collecting 23,232,235 bottle caps, the price of a down payment on a house was saved. This was quickly squandered and our small family moved into a shoe box on my father's father's back porch. Things were good. My father found a job working at a small city newspaper as a Linotype operator. My mother tried to hide from my grandfather when he was in port. Grandpa was the captain of a fishing boat and was out on the Atlantic hunting for mackerels and such most of the time. When he was in port, at the close of a fishing trip, after visiting the local bars, he would crawl home and demand fishcakes. Mom hated making fishcakes, thus she hid when Grandpa was in port.
I spent my formative years sitting under the old chestnut tree in the back yard. Learned about gravity after being struck on the head numerous times by falling chestnuts. The also explains my AbNormal way of looking at and dealing with the world in later life. To this day, I avoid walking under chestnut trees. At the age of 6, the authorities insisted that I come out from under the chestnut tree and attend ``school.'' They felt that it was necessary to instill in me the qualities that define a good citizen, namely to blindly obey any edict espoused by them with power. Fortunately, for me at least, all those chestnuts hitting me in the head caused their conditioning procedures to backfire and I grew up to question every edict espoused by THEM. This, in turn, to my utmost chagrin, annoyed THEM to no end. I had learned a cheap, entertaining method of passing the time while waiting for the next chestnut to fall. Questioning everything. Quite happy, embraced by the arms of Eris. Keep your eye to the 8-ball, your nose to the wheel and your ear to the ground and eventually you will have the skills needed to become a contortionist.
Self portrait^ and hugging a tree.>
Tell me about all of your various projects. What are you most proud of? I do rock and rap music, because I want to get laid. I am a sex person. I am most proud of our hit single "Come With Me" which made a lot of white chicken scream and blow my cock off.
their bums and think about their relatives. How can kids today get the things in life that they want? - I dunno, they should probably obey their parents and also please them orally. Describe Bulgarian politics. - Mafia. What's the deal with your record label, Fak Yer Records? We get to sign 50 bands a year, and lots of them have much success in the future. Founding a record label was a huge investment for me, and it paid off very well on NASDAQ. Haha, my partners are gonna be mad, because I touched my genitals, on a business meeting, that is! Any new projects?
What role do you see your band Electric Dragon playing in the future of Global Discordianism? - I'd like to think it's gonna take a huge role in the pop scene, near great bands like Fallout Boy. But yeah, I think the new album might move all the Discordian people and make them shake
- I'm working on a new post-modern r'n'b project. I'm gonna be working with the great and talanted black singer Carolyn Burns, and we're fixing you a great deal of music here! It's gonna have lots of snapping and claps, a bit of crunk, and lots of love.
What are your thoughts on open source materials (ie-books, music, ect)? - I appreciate the idea. People can have a lot of fun with those things. They're like human male's private parts, except they cannot ejaculate LOL! What is the spiritual landscape of your group of peers in Bulgaria? Mostly atheists, also many christians. I myself love Jesus Christ because he gives me eternal life. He'd also forgive all my sins cuz we made a deal - I just gotta give him and Saint Peter some of my bitches. Also oral love, but that happens... How would you change the world? - I will change my world with my everlasting love. Love will save the world for it is the engine of all things! It needs lots of oil and other lubricants as well. Why do you use a stage name?
- It is a place for degrading teenagers. A place where all the sickos rule. The rise of the new decadence has begun. If someone was considering contacting The Notorious B.I.G.'s ghost, what suggestions would you give them for doing the séance? - Go to a black hood, dress in white, have your hoodies on, and burn a cross. To summon his ghost, repeat "White Power". What is the most enlightened television program on air right now? - Adult Swim would be my call. I love the "Tim And Eric Awesome Show, Great Job!". What were your inspirations for the lyrics to the song "Robbery," and how did you write such an amazing hook in that song? - I realised that white people are the biggest robbers, they should be extermenated, along with the black and yellow assholes. But seriously, education nowadays gives me the craps!
- Because it's not who I am. I am not a nerdy virgin in real life - I work out a lot, I fuck thrice a day (each time with a different chick), and I've got my own family business, including real property. Spratzaman is a character - he is a loser and I hate him. What are the internets?
Spratzaman is a Tasmanian successful musician/producer/actor. He lives now in LA where he married beatuful porn starlette Sunny Lane. He's been through all, including poverty, femine, cancer, AIDS. He's currently working on a new album with his pop project, Electric Dragon.
Sorry, no picture, secret identity to protect.
Have you ever done magical workings involving Eris? Yes, the first was at one of the big bashes I did in an Austrian castle. We performed an Eris Invocation, Litany to the crazy goddess, apple with a K cut in it, wild circle dance, divination taken from the number of seeds found in the apple, all the usual sort of ingredients of a chaos ritual. My Paramour of the moment took the lead role, and she became even wilder afterwards. All in all it was an outstanding afternoon.
What would your suggestions be to someone who might like to do evocations or other such rites involving Eris? Nothing succeeds like excess.
How can a Discordian world-view help a practitioner with their magick? Does anyone know exactly what constitutes a Discordian World View? From my point of view the idea says to me that we should take an antinomian view of everything, always looking at the opposite of so called truths. As something of a Pantheist I also like the idea of god forms of choice, and Eris seems to fit with the capricious and chaotic way the universe works.
It has been said that when writing your Principia Chaotica, you were influenced by the Principia Discordia. Is this true? If so, to what degree? If not, what are your thoughts on the Principia Discordia? See above.
What do you have to say to skeptics out there who say that magick is nothing more than selling books and fooling people? The royalties from all the books I’ve ever sold over the years would not cover the cost of the cigarettes I smoked whilst writing them. Well of course magic is all about fooling people into actually trying it because nobody starts off believing that it works. However in my experience quite a few of them find that they can actually make it work for themselves, if you can persuade them to have a go. You're no longer involved with the IOT. What are your thoughts on it now, seeing it from the outside? The conventions of discretion I put in place are observed fairly rigorously, hence they do not tell me much, but I understand generally that things continue well, with new temples springing up all over the place, and innovative material being created. Did you achieve everything you wanted with it? Pretty much yes. It was hard work organising things and coming up with new material and calming squabbles. I took a decision to go off and pursue business and family and theory once I had put it into a form that had every chance of survival. I have so much I want to do in this life and I was glad to be able to hand the IOT leadership over to its experienced members, once Frater UD was out of the way. Would you ever take up the reigns again? Well, never say never, but I very much doubt it, it needs younger people with more time and energy anyway. How is your new book, The Apophenion, coming along? What can long time fans expect from this work that will set it aside from your other works? There will be a resume of some of the 3 dimensional time material that appears on Specularium, but in terms of its applicability to magic. There will also be some extended meditations on the philosophy, psychology, and metaphysics of magic with sections on quantum panpsychism and pantheism. The ideas presented will be rather antinomian, against the grain of most conventional and scientific thought, I guess there will be things there which will annoy and intrigue almost everyone.
You've currently opened a school of magick, Arcanorium College. How are things going so far? Would you say this project is more or less rewarding and productive than the IOT? Well it’s totally different. Its open 24 hours a day and has members from all over the world so participants can dip into it at any time. There is a very eclectic mixture of participants and activities and at least half of those involved are female at both staff and member level, which makes a change from the IOT as I knew it, when it was only about a third female. At the time of writing we have only had it up and running for about 5 months but already it has proved a very fertile tool for the exchange of ideas, techniques, and mutual encouragement. What is the first thing you would tell someone to do if they said they were interested in practicing magick? Go forth and actually do it. Pick up that wand and conjure, or get out those tools and divine. That was the message of my first Book, Liber Null and Psychonaut, you don’t need to absorb reams of arcane knowledge to get started, and the basic techniques are fairly simple, so just try them out. What are your thoughts on Kopyleft, or Open Source works? Do you see a place for them in the magickal world-view? Well it all depends on what you want to publish material for. Making money has never been a significant motive for me, and I never pursue any of the people who have spread my material around the internet. I publish for the contacts and feedbacks and ideas and spin offs it brings me. I make my living from running my own fairly conventional business in another field. Magic is something I do for itself, its my passionate interest. However we do charge a membership fee for Arcanorium College which pays for a professional to maintain the website, but mainly to ensure that we don’t get nuisance visits from people with no real commitment to the subject. I’ve seen several free forums collapse under the strain of spam and flaming and general silly behaviour, the people you would really like to have just get fed up and drift away. Arcanorium maintains high standards of debate and civility and the members take a pride in maintaining such standards. From an outsider's perspective, what you call "chaos magick" has a lot of rules, discipline, and order involved, and doesn't seem very chaotic at all. What would you say to such a person? I differentiate sternly between Chaos and Entropy. Only highly ordered and structured systems can display complex creative and unpredictable behaviour, and then only if they have the capacity to act with a degree of freedom and randomness. Systems which lack structure and organisation usually fail to produce anything much, they just tend to drift down the entropy gradient. This applies both to people and to organisations.
You seem to be a very serious, and intense person from what I've read and the dealings I've had with you. Would you say that humor is a big part of your life and your work? What about immaturity? I’m told that its because I’m a Capricorn and have the name Peter which means rock, but I suspect its because my English teacher once said to me that ‘only mediocrities fail to organise their time and material’, and my science education imbued a fierce sense of analytical thinking. I am not noted for my appreciation of slapstick humour, I prefer to find humour in the strange syncronicities incongruities and inconsistencies in life, I enjoy sharp satire, and I have on occasion laughed out loud at items of mathematics. When it comes to immaturity, I have a large collection of toys and board wargames which I play with much younger opponents, and I’m still trying to improve my naff surfing at an age where most guys gave up the sport ten years earlier. One of my absolute favorite ideas you have shared with me is the concept of the insubordinate. Can you elaborate on this idea, and explain it's purpose to readers? The last thing you really need in any organisation is a system where only positive feedback flows uphill. This causes those at the top to become deluded whilst those beneath them are tearing their hair out. I want my subordinates to point out my mistakes to me without fear that I will react badly.
A brief Autohagiography on Peter Carroll.
My family name goes back to at least the 11 th century to the Irish clan of Cearbhall, later anglicised to Carroll. The name originally meant 'fierce in battle'. The clan's heraldic arms depict the magic sword of Ely supported by two lions rampant. My clan stood at the right hand of the High King of Ireland at the battle of Clontarf, AD1014, where we defeated a combined Danish and Norwegian Viking army that had ravished our lands. To emphasise our displeasure at their incursion we wound the entrails of the Vikings we had slain about the trees of Clontarf. Things then go rather quiet for nine centuries until my nativity on the south coast of England in AD1953. A great grandfather appears to have moved to England rather than to America. I later discover that my nativity marks an exact conjunction of Sol and Uranus and that this apparently explains it all. However I decline to invest belief in astrology. I spend much of my childhood with the Knights Templar to whom I feel oddly drawn. My father made the wooden castle and I collected hundreds of the little armoured figures in the white robes with the red crosses. I spend my early adolescence making rockets and explosions without loosing any fingers or eyes, despite some close calls. I spend my late adolescence reading up everything on the occult in the library. Books cost a lot more money then and we had little to spare. As I grow up I come to realise that I have a very intelligent but frustrated mother and an underachieving but amiable drunk for a father. At school I tend to come out bottom in most subjects except chemistry where I come top. I open my own private laboratory at home and the explosions get more impressive. The lab technician at school has very poor inventory control. I disdain team sports but excel in individual sports such as javelin and swimming. Somehow despite my humble origins and the distractions of late adolescence I win a place to study science at London University. In those days the government paid the whole bill for the tiny minority that qualified for college. At college I find the wonders of science reduced to mind numbing dullness by academics whose talent for tedium surpasses even that of my schoolteachers. I resolve to devote my time to sex and magic, because drugs and rock and roll tend to get boring after a few hours. I enjoy 'the sixties' immensely. In England this cultural period extends from about 1968 to 1978. The women wear flared jeans and long hair and take the pill. The publishing houses reprint Crowley and a tidal wave of esoterica follows. Soon I start doing this stuff for real, I get my own black robes and together with the London Illuminati of the day, start conjuring in gothic graveyards and luridly decorated bedsits. I scrape through college with a precisely calculated minimum pass, 'a gentleman's degree' as we call it. After college, having no real profession, I do a bit of schoolteaching to save some money and to enjoy the long holidays, and then set off for the mystic east with my girlfriend. The backpacker groove has yet to become well established, so we stand on the outskirts of London with our thumbs out holding a piece of cardboard saying India. Several months later we arrive, having crossed Europe, Turkey, Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan, and having lost a fair bit of weight to dysentery. We spend the next four years wandering in India and the Himalayas, with occasional excursions to Australia and Britain to earn some money. Down in India we build a boat and survive inadvertently sailing it through a typhoon During all this time I write and meditate furiously and debate with the adepts and mountebanks from dozens of traditions. Wherever I go I tend to fall in with the local wizards for some practical metaphysics. Upon returning finally to the land of my birth, I decide to have a go at fortune, family, and a discreet amount of fame. Accordingly we hitch hike to an agreeable provincial English city (London having passed its best) to give it a go. I marry my girlfriend and start a business in a rented shed. My booksales get me an invitation to a lecture tour in Europe, out of this I develop the IOT Pact. The business thrives. I write more and lecture in the USA where the order now has temples. Disagreeably messy and noisy babies arrive, but they grow into utterly delightful children. I look back on it all with some satisfaction; the business now has its own fine premises and trades internationally. I had the privilege of leading a radical and innovative magical order for five years. I shall not forget those riotous, scandalous, and notorious annual general meetings held in fantasy castles in central Europe. The order continues to flourish but I retired as grandmaster to pursue many other commitments. I particularly wanted to conduct a research project into an intuition that had developed from my magical quest, that time has several dimensions. This quest has taken me into some strange realms indeed. I practise magic mainly for my own needs now and rarely accept invitations to teach, research has become my main priority. Current findings appear on my website: www.specularium.org
Why The Discordian Society? Is it strictly for the flyers? What a silly question to ask ..... why NOT The Discordian Society ..... apparently you aren't familiar with our bassist and front man Davz Not Here, who is after all the Avatar of Eris ..... so that would be why the name is as such ..... the prebuilt in fan base is kinda nice too but thats just a perk Yes, prebuilt fanbase can be a good perk, but has it ever turned out to be a bad thing? like, are there any real wierdos out there you've met that have tweaked you the wrong way?
There's always tweaked out weirdos ..... some might say i'm one of them, some might say i'm not ..... and is it right for me to judge some beadie eyed little republican facist who won't let us play because if you don't bring 50 people in yer not allowed to play and who cares that it's only 10 pm and 38 people are already here and you drove 4 hours in a downpour with hail the size of pearls ..... ya know ..... geeze STAY AWAY from ZIG's in Alexandria, VA. Shouldn't a Discordian band make less sense? ahhh the popular misconception about chaos and discord ..... this things need not be confused ..... or confusing for that matter But can one even conceive chaos, much less misconceive? i feel like i have a fairly decent grasp on chaos ..... and i'm sure i've misconceptions about chaos shatter in my face as well ..... such is the wave we surf called life What is your favorite Discordian Holy Book? You must be kidding ..... you think i actually read that stuff and waste
precious brain space remembering it ..... they are all in my bathroom magazine rack and have long since lost their covers ..... HAHHAHA!! Trust me, as a guy who spends much of his time writing, compiling, and publishing the things, that's ALWAYS good to hear!! Now, if there were to be a Holy Book of Discord that would be worth more than a toilet read, what would you like to see in it? Morals and Dogma by Albert Pike ..... talk about a mind fuck And your least fav? The Holy Bible really sucks Would you consider that a Discordian Holy Book? (I do, my slave-name is Timothy, and I get 2 books in it!!) no i wouldn't consider it discordian ..... do sub-genius books count as discordian cause if so Apocrypha was just so-so Who are you? (holy names) Davz Not Here: Avatar of Eris and Great Grand Master of Idiosyncrosocratics Any others? Any other what? How long has it been since you had sexual activities with a child? thats not even funny since Davz Not Here is a parent ..... it's actually REALLY offensive and not in a good way UNDERSTOOD. Now, keep in mind I asked that out of basic humor from the original Principia (question 6 on page
23- I have ceased raping children| | yes | | no -- reason . . ), as well as the Ek-sentrik-kuh Discordia's legal woes. So, are you firmiliar with any of that? Does that kind of stuff ever come into play when dealing with the wierdos addressed earlier? nah never had to deal with weirdos like that ..... i'd expect i have a very violent reaction to them though if i did ..... as far as in humor yeah i can laugh at kiddie porn jokes ..... What kind of freak are you? thats not the kind of thing that can be describe in words ..... if your a girl come on over and me and my GF can show you ..... if yer a guy ..... you'll never know Would you consider yourself homophobic? Or just secure in your sexuality? secure ..... chicks with dicks is as far as i'll goo ..... i meant go ..... yeah no guys sorry ..... List below any gods, demons, or people you wish to claim as Satan, Agents of Satan, or False Prophets. If you have more than three (3) Dark Foes you wish to claim, you must instead use a vague clause condemning a Satanic archetype, who is legion. Specify the general terms of your archetypical enemy below: a. Most governments in the world Considering you said MOST implies there are SOME that don't fit into that catagory, which ones are those? i dunno ..... but everything has an exception or two
b. All religions except a few of the eastern ones Again, can you be specific? i could but i'm not gonna ..... HA !!!!! c. All corporations WORD. Thou shalt know my enemy by this sign: The Illuminati symbols is a good start ..... and corporate logos Define Illuminati. ya know those few rich ass families who have been around for like 1500 years and what not ..... Funt? tnuf ? Cucking? gnikcuc ? Frank Zappa: Greatest Man ever, or Great Man? both ..... but that isn't 5 words That song "Spyware" rocks, doesn't it? i think so ..... the main riff was one of the 1st bass lines i ever wrote sometime back in '92/'93 ..... it wasn't untill about 3 years ago i fianlly finished the song enough to play it with other people Do most of your songs take so long to finish?
nah ..... Deja Vu i wrote in 30 mins or something ..... i had been sick and woke up like 2am or something with a 103 fever and it was in my head so i got a beer and a cigarette and went into the studio to work on it ..... i was back in bed by 3am ish Who DID write the book of love? i dunno i never read it If you were offered a free copy, would you read it? sure why not ..... Are you in "The Know" about Our Records? if no, what do you think about a record company with a Kopyleft philosophy? would you be willing to submit something to it? yeah i've heard of them ..... there are also alot of other anti-intelectual property groups and record companies now adays on the indie level ..... i copywrite my music ..... alot of people think it counter to what a talk about, ya know being anti-corporate and such, i personally think thos folks can stuff it ..... i copywrote the band name too HAIL ERIS MOTHERFUCKERS RIGHT THE FUCK ON MAN!!! Of course one would think right away that a BAND with such a name would follow the basic guidelines of the Society it claims to represent, but in doing so, would that not be less Discordian? i follow my own rules ..... and THAT is discordian ..... unless it's punk rock, or the hip thing to do or some other flakey trend some bastard is trying to push onto me .....
Why can't you handle you? i'm not sure ..... some days are just rough like that Which days? Can you site specific examples? well there is the lack of money to get hamburgers on Tues. ..... never fails .....
ENOUGH OF THIS!! GIVE ME THE SIMPLE PATH TO ENLIGHTENMENT IN FIVE EASY STEPS!!
So what to you think about the contemporary scholars who dispute your historical existence? well they are kinda write ...... my name is Davz Not Here after all So if you are NOT Here, where are you? well right now i'm here, ..... kinda like you are there but different cause i'm here NOW ..... if i were NOT here which i'm not, then i would be there ..... see now if i were there i could possibly be not here, cause i wouldn't be, i'd be there but at the same time i could be not there and here which still makes me Davz Not Here ..... ya follow ? Why are Men With BeardsDead to Stephen Colbert? no clue ..... seems kinda silly but hey we all have things we hate right ? Hate is such a strong word. I like to refer to it as Beardism. There's an Ancient Greek Saying that goes: Two types of people walk the earth without beards; boys and females, and I am niether. Discuss... wait.wait. ..... who is Steven Colbert ? Who? What? Where?
bah i like the hard path ..... the lessons stick with ya alot better Can you summarize some of these lessons? yeah like DUI or Pride (in the same tragedy) Wie ist das Grün Pferd? no clue what that means ..... i know it's German though I believe it means "how is the green pony?" But I'm not certain, I only speak English and Arabic. ok whatever How should themselves? Discordians look at
with a mirror i suppose ..... Would not a block of wood be more in the true spirit? true spirit of what ?
Why a question like this would even pop up i have no clue ...... When it does, it's all about How you answer it ..... And just how would you answer it?? ????? um ...... like i just did ..... most likely ..... i think yeah just like that .....
Is Eris real? no more or less than any other mystical almighty deity shaking it's finger at you from someplace you can't fathom
Don't you think Eris would rather shake her booty at you than her finger? GODS i would LOVE her to shake her booty ..... the GF would be down too i willing to bet
The Discordian Society, formed in Oct 2001 by bassist/ frontman Davz "Not Here" Annarelli, is an eclectic combination of funk, jazz and rock. With influences that range from Frank Zappa to John Zorn, Jaco Pastorius to Primus, The Discordian Society has awed crowds across the country. The Discordian Society's ability to take crowds on a musical roller coaster has started to become talked about among followers of all genres. Taking the elements of their influences to the extreme, The Discordian Society will play a hardcore intro, and with a stop, fall into the smoothest of jazz runs, easily teasing into a hard driven funk rhythm, the song progresses until everybody is on their feet and the groove has been established. The Discordian Society will trade licks with each other, and then, in the blink of an eye, they fall into a waltz, which soon gives way to the strangest rock opera you have ever heard. Before you know it 10 minutes have passed and you have heard 7 different styles of music played in only 1 or 2 songs. Beyond The Discordian Society's ability to play with mind-blowing tightness. The bands ability to jam is also well known. When not riding scale runs that thrill and inspire, The Discordian Society likes to fall into a pounding thump of a groove, giving their fans ample time to shake it out and get down before the next wave of rhythmically ridiculous changes that will take the song back to it's front end. http://www.thediscordiansociety.com/
You founded Thee Instagon Foundation quite some time ago and it's become quite a force in the underground art world. What would you say is your proudest moment with Thee Foundation? Thee Instagon Foundation was founded in 1993. Since then we have published zines, books, flyers, started a record label, hosted art shows, radio shows, hundreds of live events.. blah blah blah.. I really do not think i can put my finger on any one proudest moment, as with so many faces and personalities, TIF has done alot of things, and im really proud of all of it.
spark and energy of that TAZ ceased to be and it faded away..but for awhile there it seemed really special, not only to me..but to everyone involved... i would say that those couple of years were probably the proudest time. You claim that Instagon, the band, not the foundation, has had 350 different participants IN the band. Is this true, and if so, how do you keep in touch with all of your "band mates"? That is right there are 2 distinct separate entities. Thee Instagon Foundation is a collective doing many creative projects.. the sound project INSTAGON, is ONE of those projects.. its also a schizophrenic .. it may appear as a "band" .. but i would not really call it that.. its a sound project .. an audio deamon we invoked in 1993.. and has since grown and grown to be something really unique.. the number is more like 450 .. the data base is in need of being updated badly..but the data to do so is available and has been collected and preserved.. I dont really keep in touch with EVERYONE.. alot of players are just one time sit ins.. and others are not.. but there is an extensive database at the INSTAGON webpage (www.instagon.com) that has names of everyone that has appeared. I stay in contact with those that are really interested in playing again.. I have made many many great friends over the years with this project... We started the Instagon website in 1994.. at that time the net was really a baby.. there were under 800 webpages on the net.. so we got in really early.. so most people that have had any
But, there was a time period during the mid 1990's.. like 1994-1997.. those couple of years.. during that time TIF had a solid TEAM.. there was a good crew, and we were doing great things as that team.. time wore on. some of the people involved moved away to other locations and this
interaction with Instagon, know that we have a web presence.. and they stay in touch that way. In it's over 300 shows since 1993, how have you been able to maintain a reputation of never having the same ensable twice? Recently we played our 436th ensemble.. so its much more than 300.. and i wouldnt say Instagon has a reputation for never repeating a line up.. its just that is what the concept of the project is.. it’s a conceptual sound project..and so to make a new line up EVERY time, is what the project is about.. so its not really a reputation.. more of just the foundation of what it is.. most shows this fact comes as a surprise .. unless you are aware of it previously. What are your early memories of TOPY? What has changed? early memories: postal mail, propaganda, raves, electronic music, pretty girls, chaos, interesting reading, zines, newsletters, communications with others that were somehow outcasted by general social structures, sigils, magick, postal mail, raves, propaganda.. what has changed is a tough question.. as things have changed.. but things have stayed the same too.. and that stagnation of staying the same has in effect become a change of its own.. and that change was to lethargic progression.. a long standing time period where TOPY did nothing at all except stay the same.. and while TOPY stayed the same.. the world around TOPY moved onward.. and now TOPY is in state of re-thinking itself, and re-designing itself to be more progressive.. so everything has changed, but mostly the change is towards DOING instead of NON-DOING.
Would you say TOPY is a larger part of Instagon, or that Instagon is a larger part of TOPY? I would say neither.. INSTAGON was started as a TOPY project.. but it has progressed way beyond that.. it still claims itself as part of TOPY.. but it has its own thing too..and isnt exclusivily that. TOPY and INSTAGON have had a fabulous partnership.. nothing too stressful on either end.. and that is just find.. INSTAGON was started using theories that TOPY was started with.. so they naturally go hand in hand. but are not reliant on each other at all. When did you become Station Head? Can you explain what this means, what the job entails, and what you consider to be your best accomplishments since receiving the title? The actual title is "Station Coordinator". There's no "head" of TOPY. I became Coordinator in the early part of the summer of 2004 after the previous Station in State Collage,PA closed down. What that means is that I became the responsible party that answers the mail, and handles the business affairs of Thee Temple...in general its a management position. I became the General Manager of TOPY.. its an office job at the core. Its one that has been held by others previously.. and some have been lazy managers, and some have been agenda minded managers.. im one with an agenda.. im working on reestablishing TOPY in the new aeon as a progressive and open minded occult group. Trying to bring back alot of the original ideas and re-introducing them to a new generation of individuals that have been touched by the 23rd current (what we call those that come with interest and trust looking for TOPY) So far my best accomplishment has been re-establishing
TOPY as a publishing house. We have printed a few publications already in the past couple of years and have more in the works, plus sound projects and other things too.. so just the resurgence of actual OUTPUT from TOPY.. makes me feel great! TOPY is going through changes, what will be different, and what is AOT23? AOT23 stands for Agents Ov Thee 23rd current we have expanded the name of TOPY to include this new title. DUALITY.. we live in duality on a regular basis.. TOPY has become 2 groups in one group.. and so it becomes a group with 2 names. This is part of the changes within the structure of TOPY that is occurring.. When an individual joins Thee Temple.. they are either quiet and on their own personal path.. or they are ACTIVE and involved with the network and putting forth new ideas and concepts.. TO ME.. those that are quiet members are those that follow the path of TOPY.. and those of us that are ACTIVE with our propaganda and progressive ideas and concepts for TOPY and things within TOPY.. we are the AGENTS OV THEE 23RD CURRENT.. 2 personality types.. 2 groups in one group, 2 names.. one group. .. And its not really anything that can be identified until an individual has already become ACTIVE and involved with the structure ov Thee Temple.. Nothing is really changing as far as how the Individual becomes involved with TOPY.. what is changing is how TOPY interacts with the individual.. when i first was ACTIVE.. the involvement from the Station was cool.. it was pretty regular.. it was very personal and just having feedback from the Station was very helpful in my magickal process.. and then in the 1990's.. the interaction became exclusively ONLINE.. via group Email lists.. and the
personal feeling and interaction that was a major aspect of TOPY ceased to be.. This needs to be reversed, and personal contact needs to be re-evaluated and implemented, IMO. I'm working in a management mindset to find solutions to this problem and bring more POSTAL, off line interactions with members to happen.. OFF LINE IS REAL TIME. So "different" would actually be something really relative to weather or not you were previously involved with TOPY, and if you were, when that was. If an individual had never been previously involved with TOPY.. it should appear really fairly close to the way it has always appeared. If you were a member in the 1980's/early 1990's.. it will appear to you as very familiar and friendly.. . but if you were a member in the late 1990's and into the current century.. and have been gone for a couple of years.. it will shock you.. because you are used to NOTHING happening.. and now there is stuff HAPPENING.. and you were not told it would be like this.. in fact you were told NOTHING.. so now we are sharing INFORMATION with you.. and showing you what you were supposed to have been told already AS a member of TOPY.. so.. these are how the recent changes will appear.. i suppose.. What is the most success you've had with sigil magick? I once did a sigil for new tires for my car, and 2 days later a friend called me and said his dad owned a tire shop that he was selling and wanted to know if i needed new tires for really cheap. How does Discordianism and Eris play into Instagon and TOPY for you? well.. with Instagon.. the chaos factor is very prominent.. its foundation is chaos
theory.. so Discordianism and Eris just fall in that catagory really.. each of these concepts and theories in fact have INSTAGON as THEIR CORE!. Each of these notions are outcroppings of spontaneity, of improvisation, of things changing in flux, regularly and instantaneously.. INSTAGON as a word was created to describe that moment.. when something is GONE in an INSTANT.. becoming something else.. is this not pure Discordianism?? TOPY is different for me.. as im really running the office right now.. so its very orderly and controlled from my end.. but when i was on the other end.. it was very not so much order or control.. and so I work hard on this end to keep that notion alive.. its very tough to describe. How important is humor in your life? What about your rituals? I think humor is very important in my life..laughter is the keenest buzz! humour in my rituals happens sometimes.. it really depends on what the ritual is about and if laughter is just out of place or not. What was your first, honest to Eris, magickal experience?
This is a really tough question to answer for as children we all experience magickal happenings on a regular basis, but we really are not old enough to notice the difference yet.. so it not easy to truly identify ones REAL first magickal experience. so..when i was in 2nd or 3rd grade.. i used to use this method of holding my fingers in certain position, squinting my eyes, and projecting really hard on making the other guy miss his shot in basketball while playing "HORSE". and it ALWAYS worked.. never failed. i would ALWAYS win.. and im not a great shot..but they would always miss when i wanted them to.. i believed it to be MY WILL .. and thus i was working sorcery's ideas when i was very young. What bands are currently moving you? I like Nick Caves new project GRINDERMAN. I like CIRCLE from Finland. I like NURSE WITH WOUND. there are always too many bands that im into on a daily basis.. this question really dates this interview.. so im trying hard to be ambiguous
please visit http://www.ain23.com/
Dr. Jon Swabey
Why did you feel the need to make the Apocrypha Discordia? I'd been planning on putting together a bok of the Discordian fragments I held, for about 10 years before the final flurry, and then it kinda came together in two weeks. I was just about to go in for minor surgery on my leg, and I had a funny feeling I should finish the thing *just in case*. So it sort of suddenly cohered together. Which was an Odd Thing, but there you go. As it turned out, it was a false alarm. But I think if I hadn't, I'd still be working on the thing. So I suppose it was a blessing in disguise. The whole story's in the general cutup mishmash which comprises the Eristroduction to the Apocrypha Discordia. Feel free and try and make sense of it there. How long did you work on it? Over 30 years. I started collecting the various fragments which went to making the work in the late 70s. In the Eighties, I started collecting internet-sourced material as well. It kinda snowballed. "It just grewed", as I believe one of your USAnian fictional saints once said. The core of the book was always the uncollected stuff from Greg Hill, Kerry Thornley and Bob Wilson, but you've also got works from the entire period that the book was compiled during. Again, much of the story's in the Eristroduction. Strangely enough, nobody's found the secret code in the book yet, either. I've heard some talk of the book cover getting you into legal troubles, would you care to discuss? The cover hasn't gotten me into any legal troubles as yet. It turns out the image is a copyrighted one--I didn't know that at the time, I thought it was in the public domain. Quite a famous image, in fact, amongst ASCII fans.So I'm currently looking for a cover model for the next edition. But I'm a shambling wreck of a man, and I suspect that this might be negatively impacting on my quest. Any Erisian Avatars out there who are interested in being ASCIIfied are free to send me try-outs. What is the Appendix Discordia, and how long have you been working on it? Is it an on-going project?
The Appendix is a general electronic collection of Discordian writings. It's been online for two years. As things of note turn
up (or I write them!) they go online. I'm currently chasing another very rare and old piece of Discordiana, for instance. So yes, it's on-going. How exciting was it getting the First Edition Principia together? I was too excited to be terribly excited about it. It was more just hard work, painstakingly transcribing the texts by hand. And terribly, terribly exciting, of course. How did you get access to the JFK files? I said "Please, can I have access to the JFK Files?" and they said okay. I'm from a Library background, so I had contactz and skillz which helped with tracking it down, and in the end I also had the Good Rev.Karl in the neighbourhood, who kindly did the legwork for me. I'm tall, but I'm afraid my legs weren't actually long enough to reach Maryland on their own. There's more of the story to be read in the Afterword I wrote to the First Edition. What, in your opinion, is the best Discordian Holy book (Apocrypha and Principia excluded)? Why? I'm currently working on a monograph on the history of Discordian "holy books", so ask me again when I've finished! There's an extraordinary amount of ignorance when it comes to the work of modern Discordians. Apart from a handful of wellknown works (and some not-so-worthy), I've got something like 30-35 different works on file. That's complete works, not fragmentary ones.
What would you like to see Discordian's spending their time doing? WAKE UP, SCHMUCK!!! ;}P> If you were to predict the future of Discordianism, what would you see? I would see Eris sneaking up and poking me in the third eye with Her Divine Index Finger. We're Non-Prophet, remember? Are you working on anything new? Most certainly! I'm working on a number of projects. Lots of backburner stuff, like my reconstruction of the 3rd Edition, the Discordian Holy Books monograph, the Secret Project involving a rare and old piece of Discordiana I mentioned earlier, and a translation of an Ancient Discordian Classic which I hope to finish this year. I'm hoping that I can find an honest-to-gosh publisher for that one. How did the Apocrypha change your life? I get fan mail. Well, fan email. Its an interesting thing, to have people email you out of the blue and tell you they like your stuff. Other than that, it's opened my eyes to the broad reality which is Modern Discordianism. When you finished the Apocrypha, were you convinced right away to make it a Kopyleft work, or did you have some urges to Copyright it? The Apocrypha was always conceived of as a Kopyleft project, and given it's full of Kopyleft material from other people, the whole copyright thing never entered the picture. Besides, in a way the Apocrypha was always going to be spread virally, and
that's only going to be expeded by a kopyleft release. And it was: at least three different publishers have released it so far. That was never going to happen if I'd copyrighted it. What is the closest you've ever come to direct contact with Eris? We're just good friends. Please ignore the rumours of video footage, that's not me in
those tapes, it's another guy who looks like me but with a much bigger whanger than mine. Ironically enough, they call them "Stunties" here in Australia. But that's because we're perverse. Do you think Eris would be a good lay? A gentleman never speculates on such things.
--><-His Wholiness the Fairly Rev. DrJon is not a real Doctor, but he is a real Jon. He received ordination in the Universal Life Church in 1998, but has since defected (refected?) to the ranks of the Discordian Movement, having been a member there since 1978. He has a slight flaw in his character. His philosophical position might be Wilsonian Postmodernism, and is having an affair with Sophia behind Eris's back. He was once told that if you can reach the age of 40 without growing up, you don't have to. His friends are now tired of the joke. He has far too many interests. He knows far too many people. He writes Haiku and other poetry under the name
(The Gaijin Haijin, or "Foreign Haiku Poet"). Some of it doesn't suck. He has a chapbook coming out soon. Once upon a time he was a minor Filk Star. He lives in Brisbane, Australia. He never walks alone. He walks everywhere that he doesn't bicycle. He is 6'2" and his ponytail reaches his bum. Both of his grandmothers thought him very handsome indeed, bless and rest their souls, but wished he'd get a haircut. He wishes he'd chosen a safe, respectable deity like Glycon to worship, instead of Eris.
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REV IVAN $TANG
What, in your opinion, are the real differences between Subgenius and Discordianism? And the similarities? One smart-ass SubGenius said, "The only differences between the Discordians and the SubGeniuses is that the SubGeniuses are getting laid." I thought that was mean, and also not necessarily accurate. Some of the SubGenii and Discordians seem to feel there's competition. Sure, but only for fun. Anybody who takes either one seriously enough to lose any Slack over it probably wasn't really much of a SubGenius or a Discordian to begin with. There are a zillion similarities and a zillion contrasts, and none of them make a whole lot of difference unless you're REALLY FUCKING CONCERNED about whether you kiss "Bob's" ass or Eris's. I seriously doubt that either of those noble worthies could give a flying fuck about whose lips are brushing their Divine Hineys in adoration. That's their VERY CHARM in fact. The biggest practical difference is that the SubGenius Church has always had an "official" HQ and PO box, a central place to send money and be listed, whereas the Discordian thing is definitively decentralized. But then, there's no SubGenius rule that you HAVE to mess with SubGenius Foundation. The only real rule is "Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke." We will however pursue trademark violations. That is only to protect ourselves from Disney and Fox, however. SubGenii and Discordians have the MOST IMPORTANT thing in common no matter what: neither has ANYTHING in common with the Conspiracy of the Normal People. Would you recommend someone to be both a Subgenius and a Discordian, or do you think people should make up their damn minds and just pick one? WHY NOT BOTH!?!? Discordianism is slightly cheaper, but you get a lot more impressive looking fake documents with SubGenius. Besides, these days the Flying Spaghetti Monster is the Religious Satire du Jour . I'll be surprised if they have staying power, though. But who knows. FSM might be a Saturday morning cartoon show by next year. But we all know they're just a SATIRE whereas Discordians and SubGenii are REAL fanatics.
What are your fondest memories of Robert Anton Wilson? How did his passing affect you? I thought about this at length. Definitely my fondest memory is getting to sit in a cabin at Winterstar, lurking basically, while Pope Bob and his pal Robert Shea (also a guest that Winterstar) sat and yakked for hours about MOVIES. Both those guys are movie buffs and it was a joy just listening to these two funny codgers bullshit about recent movies. I could be wrong but I think Hugh Romney (Wavy Gravy) was there too. I regret never getting to meet Mrs. Pope Bob, Arlen Wilson. I did get to edit one of her old Winterstar lectures though. Was Robert Anton Wilson really Bob Dobbs? NO! I don't mind people thinking that (from that Santa Cruz newspaper article I guess) because if anybody WOULD be who "Bob" is based on, it's Bob Wilson. But RAW himself has several articles in which he describes hanging out with "Bob". I have said MANY times and in mahy places however that if there hadn't been an ILLUMINATUS trilogy, *I* would probably not be involved with Church of the SubGenius. That's not JUST true of RAW/Shea (it's also true of Lovecraft and Warner Bros. cartoons) but more true of them than most.
I read about Discordianism in that book but I thought it was something they made up. I didn't know the Principia Discordia was REAL until about 6 months after we'd printed SubG Pamphlet #1. When I finally saw one -- it was just a bootleg xerox then -- I about shat, because I figured people would think we'd ripped them off. If we did we only did so SUBCONSCIOUSLY, you might say. Though the SubG Membership Card has a line or two lifted directly from the Pope Card. We actually stole a lot more from Scientology and the Rosicrucians, though. "Bob" isn't based on anybody. "Bob" is just "Bob." Look through the hammock and fishing-bait ads in any old Pink magazine and you'll see that that Pipe Guy has ALWAYS been around. Since it's beginnings, The Church of the Subgenius has only required $30 for membership. Have you ever considered raising that price due to inflation? HAR! It became $30 in 1994 when REVELATION X came out. It was $10 from 1979 to 1984 or so and then was $20 for about 10 years. No doubt I SHOULD raise it. Boy, you're gonna wish you hadn't asked. How can a person open their third nostril on their own? A magician cannot give away his tricks like that!
How often have you eaten the fuck out of a hamburger? EVERY time. For EVERY burger is the ULTIMATE burger, that's one of the cult secrets released in the new book. What's new in the world of Bob? That's "BOB"! Without the quotes it's just another Bob. Most common name in English. The ONLY way to stay caught up with SubG and Dobbsly news is by constant attention to the horrible newsgroup alt.slack (use Google Groups to access it unless you're an old Usenet pro). The latest SPAM is always on SubSITE and of courtse Hour of Slack is broadcast fresh and new every single week in many cities and via many webcasts as well... all at subgenius.com What are you working on currently? I'm recutting the 1998 X-Day video somewhat before finally putting it on DVD. It hold up very well! The huge amount of nudity on the part of young Connieites helps in that respect. After that I am gonna see if I can develop a SubGenius movie script finally. That's been a back-burner project for 20 years but a famous movie star's production company started asking about such a thing so I decided I should rough that out before The Conspiracy does, Last winter I started doing an online course in cult-building and SubGenius History, with Maybe Logic University... that'll be offered every year I believe. How was teaching a class at Maybe Logic Academy? Anything really awesome happen? Yeah, I figured out WHAT HAPPENED! And organized all my old shit into
new plastic boxes instead of old rotting cardboard boxes. The collected mess of words, scans, audio and video fit on 3 DVDs which we're hoping to turn into a book/multimedia set. Do you consider yourself a people's person, like someone that can be approached by people on the street, or do you think of yourself as more of a reclusive hermit-religious leader? Good question! I much prefer to be a hermit but I am forced to pretend to be a "people person" in order to do "Bob's" work and get paid. I don't go out to parties much. My wife, Princess Wei 'R.' Doe, is a local peace activist and folk singer, and a big part of the Starwood festival, and she forces me to be nice to the humans we must deal with. She's like Ann Darrow to my Kong. How important is humor in religion? It's the only thing ABOUT religion that ever caught my interest. Who would be more fun at a party, Bob Dobbs, or Eris Discordia? DAMN!! I HOPE TO FIND OUT SOME DAY!! But I never get invited to THOSE parties. What is the REAL relationship between Bob Dobbs and Eris Discordia? In BOOK OF THE SUBGENIUS it says that "Bob's" mentor, the space alien god JHVH-1, used to be MARRIED to ERIS... so I can see how that might be a touchy question in some social circles. How should readers of this book deal with Pinks?
That's TOTALLY up to the individual, as is every question regarding Slack. We generally advise kids: You will never be able to actually BEAT the Conspiracy... but what you CAN do is MAKE YOURSELF STRONGER and ever less depoendent on Them. When is the next X-day? It's ALWAYS July 5, 1998... if the real 1998 ever gets here. However we hold the big Drills at Brushwood outside Sherman, NY every July 5 weekend. This year there's also a teX-Day near austin on May 5 and an Amsterdam smoke-out X-Day in Holland a week or so later. See SubSITE for details, videos, etc. Did you know Rachel Bevilacqua (AKA Rev. Magdalen)? What are your thoughts on her case? Her husband was BUSINESS MANAGER of the Church from 1996 to 2005 or so and they lived in Dallas much of the time, so I know her and the little boy quite well. Knowing what nice people they are I am even MORE horrified by the whole case than most people. It's just about the only thing (besides SubGenius Kooks) that make we wish I'd never gotten involved in this thing. But it's not our fault, it's the fucked-up redneck judge's fault, being so incredibly meanspirited and ignorant. We are all eagerly awaiting a completely new trial next month! I am damn lucky it didn't happen to me. Through the 80s and 90s I had two little
kids and my wife was an elementary school teacher. In fact that's the only reason I started using a fake name instead of my real name, Doug Smith. I didn't want redneck fuckwads to mess with my family. Now it's a moot point, my kids are grown and my former wife isn't a teacher any more anyway.
Stang, Princess Wei, Pater Nostril, Robert Anton Wilson
I have left off a biography for Rev. Stang.. if you don’t know who he is, get a clue!
Synaptyclypse Generator is your Discordian Publishing House, you've been at it for a couple years now, and have published a great wealth of books. What started you on this quest, and how successful would you say it's been? Has it met your expectations? I got into this brain melt after I read bits of the Principia Discordia on the website http://jubal.westnet.com/hyperdiscordia/. I happened upon the site whilst bored out of my tits at work one day back in December 2004. It wasn't like anything I'd ever read before and on the strength of those snippets, ordered a Loompanics yellow edition (which has since passed into the hands of Padre Slyph Fandango). I then bought three or four more copies with the intention of slicing one up and pasting pages all over town, keeping one, reading the shit out of one and giving another to a friend. I never did slice up that book, but since I have the electronic master of my own Principia Discordia edition now, it would be cheaper to print it (sneakily) on my bosses laser printer that go about slicing up perfectly good books. I got interested in publishing Discordian works after I discovered the wonders of Kopyleft ;) and the further Discordian wonders of Apocrypha Discordia, which I published via cafepress.com. I was all weirded out to have produced a PDF and then see it physically in a squid juice and mashed, dead tree format. Obviously I didn't write or edit the thing, but it gave me a thrill anyways. It was only after I put this out that I thought to contact DrJon and say, 'hey, great book, I've published it btw, hope that's ok.' He was okay with it and even bought a copy for himself (thanks man) Synaptyclypse Generator has been successful in that I have sold a handful of books to people all over the world. I've made a little (very little) money on the side
of that, it usually goes into my bank account to offset the cost of running http://poee.co.uk which grows inorexably as I find more Discordian material to archive. I don't know that I had any expectations of this gig, I'm mostly in it for the love and preservation of the material. It has, naturally, taught me a bit about selfpublishing and I've had a load of fun putting the books together. How long did you work on the Metaclysmia Discordia, and how has publishing this book changed your life? I can't remember how long I spent on it, a few months maybe. It really got my juices flowing. I drafted in articles from friends and acquaintances from several Discordian sites and managed to produce about 40% of the material (including artwork) myself. I don't know that it changed my life, but it certainly put a kink in my reality for a while. It still gives me a giggle when I go back and look at it. I'm looking into expanding it substantially and publishing a paperback 2nd Edition with ISBN, etc. For years there were only a few companies out there publishing the Principia, and the sequels were mainly an online thing. What do you think is the importance of having publishing houses like yours to bring the message of Eris to the masses? I like to hold a book in my hands and I thought others might too, it's pretty much as simple as that. Besides, I hate reading books online and onscreen (I get serious eyestrain). I felt ink and paper editions were what people wanted. I may be wrong about that, but it's what I wanted, so I went ahead and did it anyways. Buy my books, you know you want to.
A while ago you told me you started messing around with Chaos Magick. How has this been going? Anything work for you in a way that's surprised you? Currently, I'm way too busy to fit in a serious, continuing study of Chaos Magic. The dabbling I did resulted in the start of something, a chain of small events that are leading to a major change in my life. This is why I'm so busy now - I want to see this thing through. I'll get back to the study eventually. I'm interested in the process behind it. You don't have to believe in it to get results, though seeing results that way implies that you have to believe. It's a bit of a paradox. A lot of what is said about Chaos Magic by it's adherents and detractors is just so much argumentative back-biting its off-putting and pointless. There has to be something in it for people to continue to practise it, or why bother? Even if it's just a delusion, it's a fun one. I dunno man, I'm the eternal skeptic, but I do have a nagging respect for the synchronicities surrounding Chaos Magic and Discordianism. Besides the Metaclysmia and Principia, what are your favorite Discordian books, and why? Adam Gorightly's Prankster and the Conspiracy..., great insight into the early days of the Discordian Society. DrJon's Apocrypha Discordia for showing me that it was worth collecting and printing Discordian writings. The Summa Discordia for the sheer thrill of rescuing the remnants of that book form Internet oblivion. Principia Entropius. Entropius is interesting as it covers a branch of Discordia on the dialup bulletin boards of the early nineties before the Internet was big. The book of Eris author/compiler, St.
Verthaine is just about the most touched up by Eris dude you'll ever bump into - I have much love and respect for Verthaine. I haven't yet read RAW's Cosmic Trigger, so I might surf on over to Amazon later for that one. Recently you finished a hardcover Principia. What inspired that? What makes it different than other copies for sale? How did you get that awesome cover? Loompanics was closing down and I panicked that the PD would disappear for good. At that point I had no idea that Ronin had that (awful) paperback cut-up edition in the works, so I decided to scan a Loompanics edition and republish that. It kind of grew legs and ended up being entirely re type-set. It features Kerry's intro, RAW's intro and I managed to get 'outroductions' from DrJon and Adam Gorightly (can't thank these guys enough). There are also some extra bits floating around in there. Nothing to change the world, just little things, you know, like a musician that's contracted for a new album, but releases a best-of with two new tracks instead - fans lap it up. ;) On the side you do webhosting and build webpages for people. How has that beeing going, and what's the strangest site you've worked on? I'm developing that into paying work, so fingers crossed. The strangest site I've worked on is a secret, but the next strangest is POEE | UK itself, then grumpycunt.com - oh my. What makes POEE | UK different from POEE? POEE was just a short acronym which made a good, memorable domain name for
a Discordian web site. We don't cover all the bases that POEE does, just a small section of them. If you look at the POEE DISORGANISATIONAL MATRIX on page 00020 of Principia Discordia, POEE | UK falls into a number of the categories. We start off in III) THE HOUSE OF THE RISING HODGE - A. The Bureau of Erisian Archives (obviously). And as a rank amateur symbologist and with the work 'toa', myself and others did on the Fnord v2.0 font I see us in sub-section C. The Bureau of Symbols, Emblems, Certificates and such. The sites community forums covers the entirety of section II) THE HOUSE OF THE RISING COLLAPSE and section I) THE OUT HOUSE. We don't cover the other angles, because other sites and projects do that quite adequately. I've said before that the site for POEE/UK that you run is by far the best Discordian site online, (I'd even say better than ohmyeris.com ). How often do you update or work on it? How important would you say web-presence is for Discordians? Thanks man. I update it when I can, there is no dedicated timescale or regular schedule (as it should be). I'd like to write more, but I don't think I'm all that great a writer compared with others in the world wide Discordian community. SO SEND ME YOUR STUFF!!! I just consider myself lucky to have these folks post and play on my/their site. A web presence is fairly important for Discordia. If not for the Internet, I think Discordianism would have stagnated and died. It would be remembered by Illuminatus! fans and counterculture historians, but there would be little else. Isolated pockets maybe, doing their own thing. At least on the web, these pockets, you might call them Cabals
(heh), can interact and share ideas and insults if they wish. In the Metaclysmia Discordia you detail the rites for a Discordian wedding. You are married right? Was your wedding anything like that? Sorry to disappoint yet again, but no. It was a nice sunny day in February 2001, three whole years before I even heard of Discordians and their odd little philosophies. It was non-Christian except for the inflexible legal/Christian vows, which I had to repeat to get the bit of paper. We had our reception in a Mexican restaurant. Being Scottish, I wore my clan (MacBeth) tartan and got drunk as a skunk before heading off to Dublin for our honeymoon. Not Discordian in the slightest, but we had fun. What are your plans for future projects? Are you working on anything now? Weeeeeeellll. Like I said earlier, I'd like to revisit Metaclysmia Discordia and do a second, expanded edition of that. I'd like to update POEE | UK more often and I'd like to own a Shelby convertion Ford Mustang. We'll see which happens first. ;) What would Discordianism? you do without
Be a bored sci-fi/computer/web geek instead of a Discordian sci- fi/ computer/ web geek. Adam Gorightly, that's totally a pen name, isn't it? Adam's real name is James Hildegoird Tordson, so you can see why he uses the Adam Gorightly moniker.
Funt? Only if you bring the cherry bakewells, a good quality earl grey and scuba-diving gear. How would someone go about summoning a Scrid? It's complicated, but if you filter the Necronomicon through a l337-speak filter like the one at http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/leet.php and have your screen reader read it backwards whilst performing the Erisian Caffiene Ritual Bonanza (below - thanks to John Wilkes Harvey Oswald/lunaticxfringe) that'll usually get their attention. 1) Brew some coffee 2) Have a cup 3) Perform the Wholey 5 Star Mega Apostolic Banishing Ritual 4) Have another cup 5) Sit in the lotus position and take 5 deep breaths, exhaling them as slowly as possible 6) Have another cup 7) Attempt to visualize a golden light traveling through your body 8) Fidget around a bit and move out of the lotus position 9) Have another cup 10) Shaking, attempt to regain your composure 11) Get the jitters and knock over the ritual incense 12) Extinguish the carpet which is now on fire, and take a deep breath 13) Have another cup 14) Angrily decide that maybe this is all fucking bullshit, until your vision starts to get blurry 15) Have a vision of Eris 16) Lather, Rinse, Repeat Alternatively, they enjoy observing human social interaction and make the meanest DaiquirL imaginable, so you'll find them applying for bar work in the most interesting drinking emporiums on the planet.
Rev. St. Syn, KSC is a real Reverend, and has been since 2002. He was always Discordian, but just didn't know what to call it, until that fateful day in 2005, when some obscure link, lurking in the darkest corner of a forgotten web page, led him to Eris (the web is her favorite hang-out these days). He read and re-read Principia Discordia and lacking toilet paper at the time, decided to order a copy from little book shop called, of all the unlikely names for a book shop, "Amazon". And lo he was converted from something vaguely resembling a human into a Discordian, or a Fake Discordian if the Real Discordians are to be believed (only they're really the Fake Fake Discordians and will destroy us all given half a chance). The Rev has since built "The best slice 'o' Discordia - this side of Phobos" according to some Martians, at his home on the web: The POEE|UK Resource Centre. He became the Polyfather of the POEE|UK After a brief, but bloody power struggle with Richard Nixon's festering corpse in which the Rev nicked his pinkie on a sharp bit of bone sticking out of the former US president's right eye socket. The POEE|UK forum still bears the name of this honoured foe in respect of the mind fuckery he unleashed on the global public in the 1970's. Latterly the Rev has taken to publishing sacred Discordian texts and is planning something rather special for later in the year (now 2007). Currently he uses Cafe (spit) Press and Lulu.com to publish his theived texts. When he is not wrestling with the undead for control of his webspace, he enjoys writing about himself in the third person and making up crazy shit for the sake of it. He also makes crocheted bobble hats and lies about it.
Jonesboro’s House of Eris’ Science and Fnord Committee
Those interviewed will go by the following abbreviations: Rev.Col. C-Dub Carver Chosen = RCCCC Rev. Mailboxhead, KSC = RMBH Kernal Go!♥ = KGo!♥ Dr. Choise, KSC, Matress Prince = DC Keeper of the Hellacious Confection = KHC Rev. St. Pope Ol Boy Floats, HC = OBF What does Discordianism mean to you? KHC: So earlier I was listening to the radio and they were talking about Jamie Kennedy. He was talking about how he just shot a pilot with Lee Majors called “Me and Lee,” where Jamie Kennedy gets in a car accident and Lee Majors kidnaps him and makes him into a bionic man. RMBH: Nice! KHC: It looks all right to me. KHC: It would be better if it didn’t have Jamie Kennedy. DC: Can you tell me what other movie Lee Majors played himself in? KHC: No I can’t. DC: “Scrooged.” (at this point there is some confusion). Why is Jonesboro, Arkansas a suitable home for a group of Discordians? RMBH: See, I don’t acknowledge the question. I think that Jonesboro, Arkansas doesn’t exist. I think that Discordianism doesn’t exist. And suitable places don’t exist. KHC: See, RMBH’s been on this kick recently about how Jonesboro isn’t real. He keeps talking to me about it, man. RMBH: Remember those memories for a second then remember today. All I’m saying, is there are more trees. I don’t remember there being this many trees. KGo!♥: He’s fucking right. RMBH: Thanks. That the first thing I noticed, all the trees. RCCCC: I veto your response. There are less than to the same amount of trees. (at this point there is loud argument) RMBH: No, but wait, yeah wait, yeah OK. Remember when we first moved down here like years and years and years ago? DC: Y’all ain’t from ‘round here. RMBH: Everyday I wake up and it’s like a splinter in my mind. It’s like I’m watching a TV Show. KHC: We’ll just be driving around and he’ll be like, “Is this real? Does this look real?” RMBH: I doesn’t. It doesn’t look real to me at all.
How did the Jonesboria Discordia Change your lives? KHC: It gave me that recipe for that pot drink that we drank. (unanimous agreement)
KGo!♥: GOOD ANSWER!! DC: I didn’t ask to be born! What is the most Discordian thing you’ve ever done? KGo!♥: NOT THIS!!
DC: What page number is that on? OBF: It’s in the back somewhere. KHC: I don’t know where my copy went. It vanished. (unanimous agreement with some descent) RCCCC: I’m now in a book. KHC: Yeah. Fucking yeah, that too. DC: I don’t have to move. It got me addicted to drugs and made me run my car into a train. I blame the literature. RCCCC: I now get 75cents a trick instead of 50. What does Eris mean to you? RMBH: It’s the tenth planet in the solar system. KHC: That it is, amongst other things.. KGo!♥: Tits, man! KHC: YEAH! RCCCC: I agree with both of those statements. KHC: It’s a constant jack off fantasy. DC: I don’t know! I don’t know what things mean! That’s not my job! KHC: Yeah, definitely not sitting around TALKING about Discordianism. The fact that I go around and barely acknowledge the “Sect” or whatever makes me the most Discordian guy ever. KGo!♥: UU! KHC: And the fact that you go around talking about it all the time makes you the least Discordian guy, which is funny cuz you’re the one doing all this shit. RMBH: We just redefined Discordianism to include PROFIT! KHC: Yeah ok! Profit is good! What is really going on with hot dog buns? KHC: Everything, and nothing. DC: They improve regularity cuz they include whole grain. KGo!♥: La la lala lalala la! RCCCC: They’re killing you. RMBH: It’s like with peanut butter. RCCCC: Whiter your bread, sooner you’re dead. KGo!♥: McGriddles!!
What do you suppose the Cat-Bun Wars is a metaphor for? RMBH: It’s a metaphor, like all science fiction, for bestiality. KHC: I just thought they were really high, but yeah that answer makes as much sense. RMBH: Bestiality plain and simple. It’s men having sex with pigs, and that’s not right. Pigs are for eating. KHC: Not for ‘eating out.’ What is Jonesboro’s House of Eris’ Science and Fnord Committee? RMBH: A website that you run. KGo!♥: It’s your mom. RCCCC: A brothel on Huntington Ave. DC: I don’t have an answer for that question.
together! I don’t need this kind of shit from you OBF! OK? Like, it was two whole pages and a letter in the back! God damn! KHC: I was just high and lazy. I thought about revising shit, but then I was like, ‘nah.’ DC: I’m not a writer. KHC: Well, neither am I. I was on sleeping pills for most of it. DC: Oh yeah, sleeping pills. RMBH: WHAT!? What’s the Jonesboro music scene like? RMBH: Well he’s about sittin’ right there. He’s got blue jeans on. KHC: He likes red-heads and Asian girls. DC: Nurse play! KHC: I like a girl that will wear some scrubs! DC: There’s nothing wrong with that. KHC: It’s fucking hot! RCCCC: Jon Middleton making people dance. KHC: Oh FUCK YOU it is not Jon Middleton! KGo!♥: Your mom.
Why didn’t you work harder on the Jonesboria Discordia? RMBH: OK! I put two pages in that motherfucking thing! OK!? TWO! TWO! It took me like 15 min to put that shit
KHC: Who’s mom? KGo!♥: Garza’s. RCCCC: Yeah!
vagina much like Dr. Phil uses to stuff Oprah’s money into. DC: OH Dr. Phil shoves SO MUCH money into Oprah’s vagina!! KHC: All that jizz… RMBH: …yeah KHC: Runnin’ out yo snizz… At this point in the interview chaos took over, stupid questions were given stupid answers, general disarray swept the group, OBF threw up, and really none of it is worth printing any more than the garbage you’ve read so far. The editors of this work have not omitted the rest of this interview out of censorship, spite, or whim, but out of nothing more that simple good taste, and to not be accused of cramming this work with extra bullshit filler to up the cost. JHESFC Can be contacted for full transcript or tape of the interview. They can be reached at the following website: http://ohmyeris.com or http://www.myspace.com/ohmyeris
RMBH: The Jonesboro music scene consists of her, Hellcake, and Jon Middleton. KHC: NO! Is Jon Middleton in Hellcake!!? No he’s fucking not! KGo!♥: Yes! Yes he is! KHC: The FUCK he is! KGo!♥: LIAR!! KHC: GOD DAMN IT!! DC: Every body simmer down. Have you created an actual career, marketing or business plan? (unanimous laughter.) RMBH: I have. Actually I have. KHC: I got a 401K RMBH: I got a whole fucking seminar. DC: I don’t. RCCCC: I’ve been working on creating a
---What all went into writing the Summa Discordia? Excuse me – I'll need a tweed jacket and some sort of glasses for this bit…. Back in nineteen-diggity-four, just as the interwebs were starting to take hold, I ran into a site called "Hyperdiscordia" and learned all about Discordianism. I started a website of my own called "Cabaret Discordia" that I filled with a bunch of my writings, Discordian stuff, Dada texts, and the best Stupid Web Tricks a geek like me could muster. After a while, it occurred to me that I had a pretty good-sized collection of Discordian writings – some original, and some based on interpretation or expansion of material in the Principia Discordia. I ended up dividing the site into a couple of threads that one could follow by clicking an icon on the bottom of each page to get to the next one. The thread that dealt directly with the PD stuff was called the "Gemerah" (since it was similar in execution to the rabbinical work of the same name) and the more original stuff I called the "Summa Discordia." Some pages were in both threads, so there wasn't a strict boundary between the two. ----How did it affect your life? Packaging it all up was actually a lot of fun. Once I had those pages chained together, some obvious lacunae presented themselves. It led me to write a lot more, since there was a certain amount I had to get before it felt at all "done". In the outside world, my site was one of an increasing number of Discordian sites that started popping up as the community grew online. I was reasonably active in Discordian newsgroups and the like, but after a while I just kind of moved on. I started a blog with a friend, and I started pouring all my geekery into that. After a while, I didn't even bother re-hosting the Cabaret Discordia stuff when I changed providers. A few months ago, I did a vanity search on "Ffungo" just to see if any echoes were still out there. I discovered that there were a good number of references to me as the author of the Summa Discordia, and that there were even copies of it for sale! It was a huge surprise, and I found it really satisfying that some people cared enough about the material to go through the hassle of grabbing it from a web archive and formatting it and everything. Before the days of cheap scanners and PDFs (again with the tweed!), I made a Microsoft Word
version of the PD and it took forever. That's why I'm appreciative of the work that went into the published version. (As an aside here, I found several quotes attributed to me in different places – The Apocrypha Discordia, different web pages – that were spurious. It wasn't that the quotes were objectionable or anything, but they weren't things that I wrote. Here we have a case where a person's original writings are available in their original form, and in the process of collecting them different corruptions occurred. It amazes me that this sort of thing happens all the time, and yet Biblical literalists believe that this sort of thing never happened at all to writings that were copied and re-copied over thousands of years from lost original versions.) ----It's been quite some time since you did work on the Summa, how are you different now? What thoughts or opinions about Discordianism that you had then have changed? I think when I was originally drawn to Discordianism I was attracted by its irreligious nature and by the fact that the stuff was just plain funny. After a while, my irreligious side faded a bit (more because of the futility of arguing against faith than a softening of my anti-religious outlook) and I started to be more attracted by the idea that Chaos could help save me from a wasted life. To me, the weightiest words in the PD are when Eris says, "I am Chaos. I am Alive, and I tell you that you are Free." When you realize that you really can try to do anything you want, the world becomes instantly more fascinating and more terrifying than before. People always seem to try to blame some outside force for making their lives boring and uncreative, but I think the sad truth is that we do it to ourselves. It's easier to conform, to do what's expected, than to take heat for doing something different. Embracing the aspects of Chaos in your life comes down to understanding that There Is More Than One Way To Do It, but you don't necessarily *have*to do it differently unless you'd rather. If you want to be an accountant who makes street art or a mother of three who writes manifestoes in between runs to the dry cleaners, go ahead. Being different because people expect you to be different is no better than conforming for the same reasons. I think that growing older has helped me get comfortable with the more "normal" aspects of my life while also being more comfortable with the "weird" bits as well. I'm trying to weed out my unexamined conformities and make active decisions about the ways I spend my time.
----Have you ever contacted Eris directly? If so what happened? If not, what do you think would happen? I think that contacting Her directly is probably a pretty bad idea. In fact, I think the Discordian idea about prayer is one of its soundest dogmas. Praying people tend to drift into a kind of "Santa Claus" mode where they ask for special favors constantly. When you're not allowed to pray for outcomes you desire, you're reminded that you either need to exert a direct influence on events or get happy with the idea that there's nothing you can do. Either way, I think that's a lot better than believing that if you hope hard enough and are a good enough person that you'll get what you want. It's sort of a weird combination of not taking credit for your successes and accepting improperly assigned blame when circumstances fail you. One time I did falter, though. I was having a tough time with something and I asked Eris for a message, which I generously allowed her to send me using the "Shuffle Songs" feature on my iPod. The song that came up – and here I shit you not – was a 30-second file of silence. It was sweet of Her to send me a warning. ----Should Discordians stick apart? Or is following the rules and suggestions in the Principia Discordia completely missing the point? I do feel like there are some Discordians that get too hung up on Scripture, but when people say we should break all the rules in the PD because we need to follow the rule in the PD about breaking all rules it makes my head hurt. I think that it's entirely possible to miss the point by adhering too closely to the PD, but I think it's far more common to miss the point by giving in to mandatory chaos, or worse – to mistake enforced conformist silliness for chaos. I think we need to look at the PD rules like any other – if they seem like good ideas, run with them as long as it makes sense to you. ----Do you still hold to the idea that "Eris may or may not want you?" Totally. Perhaps even more so than I did when I first wrote that. There are people out there who say, "Ok, yeah, it's funny and all, but you don't *really* believe in Eris, do you?" I tell them that I believe in Eris as much as I believe in their god, but they parse that as me saying, "No, not really." People like that either don't need or can't use what Discordianism has to offer. It takes balls to build
your own religion. You don't have an unassailable text to fall back on, you don't have centuries of tradition – you're really on your own. A lot of people don't want to take that journey, but I say fuck 'em – the loss is theirs. ----What do you think of this new breed of Discordian popping up in the past few years since the deaths of Thornly, Hill and Wilson? In some ways, having the founder of your religion or movement hanging around is the worst thing that can happen to it. All movements evolve over time, and creative minds always come along and try to fix problems that the Founders didn't anticipate. If that Founder is still around, it can induce a kind of "chilling effect" on this kind of innovation. Getting them out of the way allows a movement to flourish. As a result, Discordianism has taken on a stronger DIY ethic than it used to have. The Summa was the first post-PD "book" that I was aware of, even though there was a lot of really good Discordian writing going on in a lot of places. It seems like more and more people are assembling these works into coherent works ("coherent" being relative – these *are* Discordians, after all) and distributing them. I think that's beautiful. ----Will there ever be a sequel to the Summa? Or another Ffungo Discordian Work?? I dunno. I may write something else. I think I need to feel like what I have to say is enough to fill a book. You know how you go through periods in life where you feel like, "I've really got my act together!" and then others when you think, "Wow. I really have no idea what's going on here…."? I'm sort of in one of the latter periods. Maybe it will be followed by some great insights and I'll bust out another volume. ----What are you working on now? I'm kind of writing less and doing more right now, which is fine. I have bits and pieces of different things lying around, so I'm never sure when they'll coalesce into some kind of Thing like the Summa did. ----What would be the ideal future for America, in your opinion?
As an American, I truly never thought I'd say this, but ideally we'd become a little more like Canada. Or Western Europe, maybe. I'm really embarrassed that so many in my country treat evolution like it's a new idea that needs a little more investigation or that we get really upset at the thought of two dudes falling in love or some adult getting baked in his living room and laughing at cartoons. I think the heart of it comes down to Doubt vs. Certainty. When you're Certain, you know you're right and you've already made that decision for other people. Doubt lets you make a case for what you think is right, but is always open to new evidence. Religion is Certain, but science thrives on Doubt. I really believe that organized religion is like a cancer in the American bloodstream, and until we're able to chuckle at preliterate creation myths I worry for our future. ----What are your thoughts on the connection between worship of a Female Goddess, and a good sense of humor? When I first got into Discordianism I had a lot of habits of thought from my religious days. For example, I used to instinctively ask God for help whenever I was worried about something. I think I'm not alone in that – I think a lot of people when faced with some trouble instantly envision a benevolent God up in space somewhere watching over them and nodding approvingly, like "It's all gonna be ok, baby." Even though that God is no different from a childhood imaginary friend, that perception of the relationship there really colors how those people see themselves in their lives. It sounds insane, but these little mental tics reinforce a way of behaving – in this case, you're passively hoping that a Big God will keep you safe. The idea of Eris is really liberating. She's more pleased with you when you're doing something clever, creative, and awesome. Your servility makes Her wrinkle up Her Divine Nose at you. Instead of having a plan for you, She wishes you'd get off your ass and go do something already. I think Her gender is important for people who grew up in a modern monotheistic culture because it's a simple, clear way to signify that She's different from that other God, about whom little is funny but much is ridiculous. With Eris, the ridiculous is embraced instead of denied, and I think that's the spark that draws people with a sense of humor to Her. ----What would you say is more productive for those of us with the Discordian persuasion to do with our time; build upon the works that have come before, or abandon everything to do with Eris, and create or become our own gods? Can a person do both? All three?
Building on what has come before can be really useful. For starters, it increases your knowledge of the original material and forces you to consider relationships and ideas that you may have missed. When I was doing the Gemarah, I really spent an embarrassing amount of time studying and considering the PD and I stumbled upon a number of things that I had missed during my first readings. It also gives you a vocabulary to use and a sympathetic audience for the ideas you generate that spring from the original materials. At some point, though, I think it makes sense to abandon Discordianism. There's that old line from Alan Watts talking about using psychedelics where he says, "Once you got the message, hang up the phone." I think that applies to pretty much everything. At its core, Discordianism should teach us that everything is ephemeral and that nothing abides. This is a tough concept for me to truly embrace, because when I'm in the grasp of a moment of happiness I do my best to engineer its permanence. People (including me) have done that with philosophies as well. If any belief system suits you well for a long period of time, it usually means neither of you are changing. By developing Discordianism, you can help enhance it with things you've learned and have some fun along the way. Eris has a lot to teach you on some trips, but not so much on others. I think it's important to make sure you're on the correct path, not just the one your familiar tour guide can lead you down. ----If you were to predict the future of Discordianism, what would you see? I used to joke with my friends that I wanted to become the St. Paul of Discordianism – I'd recast everything in a form that was more palatable to the general public, sell it out, and become famous. That was tongue-in-cheek, but I do sometimes worry about Discordianism becoming more mainstream. If it hadn't been for the success of the Illuminatus! trilogy, Discordianism could have faded away into obscurity like so many other whimsical inside jokes. I wonder what the impact would be if a movie or TV show featured Discordian characters or themes. I can envision the "Hot Topification" of Discordianism, where golden apple earrings are sold at Urban Outfitters to people who don't really Get It. I think that Discordianism is best served by being a little obscure – people should have to work for it a little bit, so they value it more.
----Any final thoughts? I sort of expect that my Final Thought, as I lie there on my deathbed in a hospital or in the bent wreckage of a car, will be a vision of Our Lady Herself, and she'll say to me, "Ffungo, why were you such a pussy? You were never in any real danger…." -^00^ ____ (oo)\__/ ___ \ ___/| || \___/ \____/
Greater Poop interview with Mal2 Norton Cabal interview from 4th Edition Principia Discordia
Perhaps the best and most famous interview in Discordian history is this one. It’s one of the first things most people read when introduced to Discordianism, since it’s in the very beginning of the Principia. I’ve reprinted it here for reference and tribute, since this entire book you (hopefully) have just read is entirely indebted to this simple line of questions. KOPYLEFT- All Rights Reversed- Reprint What
You Like Some excerpts from an interview with Malaclypse the Younger by THE GREATER METROPOLITAN YORBA LINDA HERALD-NEWS-SUN-TRIBUNE-JOURNALDISPATCH-POST AND SAN FRANCISCO DISCORDIAN SOCIETY CABAL BULLETIN AND INTERGALACTIC REPORT & POPE POOP. GREATER POOP: Are you really serious or what? MAL-2: Sometimes I take humor seriously. Sometimes I take seriousness humorously. Either way it is irrelevant. GP: Maybe you are just crazy. M2: Indeed! But do not reject these teaching as false because I am crazy. The reason that I am crazy is because they are true. GP: Is Eris true? M2: Everything is true. GP: Even false things? M2: Even false things are true. GP: How can that be? M2: I don't know man, I didn't do it. GP: Why do you deal with so many negatives? M2: To dissolve them. GP: Will you develop that point? M2: No. GP: Is there an essential meaning behind POEE? M2: There is a Zen Story about a student who asked a Master to explain the meaning of Buddhism. The Master's reply was "Three pounds of flax." GP: Is that the answer to my question? M2: No, of course not. That is just illustrative. The answer to your question is FIVE TONS OF FLAX!
The Forth Edition of the Principia Discordia is the first version I ever read. It was the fist edition to really get people’s attention, that was published in a nice format, and somewhat easy to obtain.
This interview was originally published in that edition, and is reprinted here also out of prosperity and tribute. I only see it fitting that this book should close with these immortal words.
KOPYLEFT- All Rights Reversed- Reprint What You Like
INTERVIEW WITH NORTON CABAL by Gypsie Skripto, Special Correspondent
It has been ten years since I net the mysterious Malaclypse the Younger. I was free lancing for the underground papers and went to POEE Hear Temple at 555 Battery Street to try for an interview. I found him in the Temple PO Box busy wrapping up the new Fourth Edition of PRINCIPIA. He seemed impatient with me, insisting that he didn't have the time or inclination for foolish questions from reporters. Undaunted, I burst out with questions like whether he preferred Panama Red or Acapulco Gold and how the fuck did we manage to fit inside of a tiny post office box and other things apropos a naive young semiliterate dropout hippy writer. He asked me if I wanted to drop mescaline and fuck all night and said he knew how to turn himself into a unicorn and there might be room for a tiny interview on the cover of the PRINCIPIA if I wanted to work for the GREATER POOP so I said sure, OK, I've never dropped mescaline in a post office box before. It turned out I was among the last to see Malaclypse. As subsequent issues of GREATER POOP revealed, he was to disappear and POEE business was to be assumed by his students at Norton Cabal. Professor Ignotum P. Ignotius, Department of Comparative Realities, was assigned the Trust of the POEE Scruple and Rev. Dr. Occupant became Keeper of the Box. The newly published copies of PRINCIPIA were distributed by Mad Malik, Block Disorganizer, who had distribution contacts with the Aluminum Bavariati. Practical relations remained in the hands of concept artist G. Hill. When the 1000 PRINCIPIAS were gone the GREATER POOP stopped publishing, Head Temple closed down and the Cabal just seemed to evaporate. Finally even the box was closed. But over the years I noticed that copies were still circulating, and that independent Discordian Cabals would occasionally pop out of nowhere (and still do). And I would wonder what ever happened to Malaclypse. When I read the ILLUMINATUS trilogy I resolved to again find and interview the denizens of Joshua Norton Cabal of the Discordian Society.
As I cabled over Nob to San Francisco's Station 'O' Post Office I couldn't help but wonder at Goddess' hand in assigning street addresses to Her outposts. Mal2 had told me that Good Lord Omar always filed everything under "O" for OUT OF FILE. "Maya is marvelous" I was thinking when I rapped on the little metal door and was greeted warmly by a huge beard who introduced himself as Professor Ignotius. He ushered me into a spacious wood paneled and tapestry hung parlor where three others were laughing and passing around a wine jug. The sunny one in a tunic was the Reverend Doctor Occupant, the trim khaki and jeans was Mad Malik and the wine jug claimed to be Hill. I got the recorder on.... GYPSIE SKRIPTO [in response to a question]: ...1969 but only briefly. I guess I missed you guys.
MAD MALIK: No wonder, he was pretty much a one man show then. We were just his students and were usually off on errands. You worked for the POOP? Gypsie: Well, for one night anyway. The interview is in the PRINCIPIA. REV. DR. OCCUPANT: Malik was the only one he would ever let write for the POOP or get on the letterhead. Gypsie: Did you [Malik] have higher authority than the others? Malik: No, [but I was allowed to speak in the POOP] because [Malaclypse the Younger] hated politics. He was infuriated with Johnson and Nixon over Viet Nam because it was turning the renaissance into a political revolution and was stealing his sacred thunder. So he trained me in Zenarchy, which he learned from Omar, and I was the official anarcho-pacifist for the Cabal. Also I was liaison to The Ancient Illuminated Seers of Bavaria, the Chicago Discordians. Later Omar activated the Hung Mung Cong Tong and ELF, on Zenarchist principles, and also Operation Mindfuck. I was also into those. Though at the time I was masquerading in GREATER POOP as a created cabbage to throw off the FBI. Gypsie [to Hill]: Since you wrote it, I take it you are an anarchist? G.H. Hill: Since then I have given up anarchy. Too many rules-- hating the government and all that stuff. IGNOTUM PER IGNOTIUS: It's like hating your own fantasies. Malik: [Anarchy] is also standing up and proceeding forward, fantasy rule or not. The condition is the same. Occupant: Brother needs some wine! Malik: We have had this argument before, Reverend Doctor Brother. But wine before platitudes, fill it up. Gypsie [to Hill]: And pacifism? Hill: I'm not sure I ever was one. Mal2 was not, Malik was. Personally I accepted self defense yet I could never reconcile that with the ideal. I finally gave up on that one too. Actually I just gave up on idealism. Ignotius: Idealism lives with rules. Realism lives with rocks. Hill: Yeah. I get along better with rocks. Malik: Mal2 once told me that pacifism was a dilemma. If everybody was a pacifist then everything would be perfect. But nobody is going to be a pacifist unless I am first. But if I am and somebody else is not, then I get screwed. He said that there were five choices under that circumstance. The first was napalming farmers and the second was executing your parents. The third was hypocrisy, the fourth was cowardice, and the fifth was to swallow the dilemma. Zenarchists are trained in dilemma swallowing. Occupant: So are other Erisians, like POEE. Ignotius: That is characteristic of the Discordian perspective. Hill: But of course training contradicts Discordian principles.
Malik: Oh so what. Contradictions are nothing to Discordians. Occupant: Dilemma, Schilmemma. [to Gypsie]: What do you think of this, pretty ma'am? We don't get to hear your thoughts. Gypsie: I'm reporting now, you talk. Occupant: Later then? Gypsie: Perhaps. Later. Occupant: You are smiling. Gypsie: Hey, guy, later. [to Hill]: Doesn't this leave you a little schizy? Hill: It's OK, I'm half Gemini. Gypsie: What's the other half? Hill: Taurus. That makes me a stubborn schizy. Ignotius: I'm a Whale. Occupant: I choose Satyr. Malik: Spirits don't have signs. Hill: A character can have a sign if I want it so. Occupant: Well I can have a sign if I want to and screw both of you. Malik: Come on Greg, you just think that we are your characters.... Occupant: You were inhabited by Malaclypse the Younger. He caused you to create roles and those roles are being performed by us spirits. Ignotius: A perfectly normal pagan relationship. Hill: Well you can look at it like that if you want to, but I created Mal2 to my specifications just as I conceived all the rest of you. Occupant: You didn't invent Eris. She caused you to think you created the spirit of Malaclypse. Hill: Oh bull! Besides, I changed her so much the Greeks would never recognize her. Occupant: That's what She wanted! Ignotius: Deities change things around all the time. Malik: What you don't realize is that a spirit has a self identity.
Hill: Nope. A spirit is a product of definition and the one who is doing the defining around here is me. Your identity is what I say it is. Just to prove it, I'm going to change your name. SINISTER DEXTER: It's OK with me. Fate is fate. I never much liked "Mad Malik" anyway. Ignotius: Besides people confused him with Joe Malik in ILLUMINATUS. Dexter: I sort of enjoyed the confusion part. Occupant: Doesn't prove anything anyway. Gypsie: That name sounds familiar. Where is it from? Hill: It's a name I came up with in the old days and never used it much. Its on page 38 of the PRINCIPIA referring to Vice President Spiro Agnew. I always thought I invented it but now it sounds like a Stan Freberg name now that I think about it. It may have stuck in my preconscious memory from early TV. Gypsie: Can you use it without his permission? Hill: If it is his? I don't know. I hope so. It means "left right" in Latin and is a perfect name for a libertarian anarchist. Actually in my kind of art the question of what can I use freely and what can I not is a very tricky problem. Gypsie: How do you mean? Hill: Well, take a collage for example. Like the early one on page 36 of the PRINCIPIA. Each little piece was extracted from some larger work created by some other artist and published and maybe copyrighted. I find them in newspapers and magazines mostly. Often from ads. With a collage you select and extract from your environment and then assemble into an original relationship. The PRINCIPIA itself is a collage. A conceptual collage. All of it happens simultaneously. But visually it is a montage, passing through time, like a book does. There is a lot of pirated stuff in the PRINCIPIA, especially in the margins. But also I sympathize with artists who must own and sell their works to earn a living. Art, like knowledge, should be free fodder for everyone. But it isn't. It is perplexing. Gypsie: Where did all the things in PRINCIPIA come from? Hill: Well, a full answer would take another book in itself. Most of the writing credited to a name is a true person and almost always a different name means a different person. Most of the non-credited, you know, Malaclypse, text is mine although some things credited to either Mal2 or Omar were actually co-written and passed back and forth and rewritten by each of us. The marginalia, dingbats, and pasted in titles and heads and things came from wherever I found them--some of which is original but uncredited Discordian output, like the page head on 12 and other pages which is from a series of satiric memo pads from Our Peoples Underworld Cabal. All page layout is mine and some whole graphics like the Sacred Chao and the Hodge Podge Transformer are mine but mostly I just found stuff and integrated it. Mostly I did concept, say 50% of the writing, 10% of the graphics, all of the layout. Gypsie: Specifically, what are some of the sources?
Hill: Well, the poem on the front cover is by Walt Kelly and was spoken by one of his characters in Pogo. The government seals starting from page 1 are from a book of sample seals from the U.S. Government Printing Office. Western Union on page 6 got into the act because I used to be a teletype operator and had access to blank forms. Rubber stamps came from all over the place and some, like the apple on page 27, I carved myself. A few I ordered to my specification, like on page 1. The quote on the top of page 8 might be from Barnum, I'm not sure. The jumping man on page 12 is from an advertisement. I recognize the style--a popular commercial artist--but I don't know his name. The Chinese on the page is a grocery ad, I think. The Norton money on page 14 is historic, plus my little additions. The apple on page 17, as well as the triangle on 23 and the Sacred Chao on 50 are, believe it or not, pasteups of mimeographs, from Seattle Cabal. That group produced the best damn mimeography I've ever seen. The Lick Here Box on page 23 is one of many tidbits making the rounds in alternative/underground newspapers in those days. Trip 5 page header on 29 was a chapter title in one of Tim Leary's books. The Knight on the bull with the TV antenna on his helmet on page 46 came from a very artistic magazine called Horseshit and put out by two brothers from Long Beach. I don't remember their names. Wonderful magazine. Occupant: Eris told Mal2 what to use and where to find it. Hill: Yeah, in a way that is right. That is why my name does not appear anywhere on the PRINCIPIA and why it was published with a broken copyright-- Reprint What You Like. I knew I was taking liberties and didn't want my intentions to be misunderstood. It was an experiment and was intended to be an underground work and that involves a different set of ethics than commercial work. Gypsie: There are no real names at all? Hall: Oh, some. Camden Benares is a real name because he legally changed his original name to his Holy Name. Also, instead of using Mordecai Malignatus I used Bob Wilson's real name on page 12 because Werewolf Bridge was a work before Discordianism. And of course real people like Neils Bohr crop up in quotes. Gypsie: What do you think about the PRINCIPIA now? Would you want to change it? Hill: I consider it a successful work and I wouldn't want to change it. In some ways it is immature and I am not the same person I was 10 years ago, but it accomplished the objectives I set for myself and it has the effect I wanted it to have. There are a few errors though. Gypsie: Like what? Hill: Oh, I changed a quote from Tom Gnostic on page 61 and I don't think he ever did forgive me for it. He's right. Starbuck's Pebbles should have been preceded by the Myth of Starbuck which was being saved for something else and never got used. I should have used it when I had the chance. And then Eris did a neat little trick on me by having IBM make the Greek selectric typewriter element not coincide with all the characters on their keyboard. So the little "kallisti" that appears on the title page and lastly on the back cover came out "kallixti" and I was too dumb to know the difference. Gypsie: Will there ever be a Fifth Edition? Hill: There already is a Fifth Edition, by Mal2. It is a one page telegram that reduces everything to an infinite aum. I found it at Western Union where a machine got stuck and kicked out hundreds of pages of nothing but m's. He made it the Fifth Edition and then left. Principia/Malaclypse was a very personal work for me and actually took 10 years to culminate. It was one single statement that included my adolescence in the 50's and my young adulthood in the 60's. When I
finally had the paste-ups done I knew that I had finished it. That is why, quote, Malaclypse left. I knew it was finished. I didn't know exactly what it was, but it was done. Occupant: See? Gypsie: Earlier you said that you met your objectives. Just what were those objectives? Hill: Well, that's hard to answer because it kept refining itself over the years. In 1969 I mainly though of myself as a cosmic clown and I set out to prove, by demonstration, that a deity can be anything at all. In other words, people invent gods and not the other way around. Later I decided that I was doing some kind of conceptual art. In the 50's my culture taught me that I was created by and for a deity, a specific male deity, and that all other deities are FALSE. Yet my growing experience showed me that any deity is true in some sense and false in some other sense. So I set out to do what my society told me is impossible--make a real religion from a patently absurd deity. In the 50's a female deity was blasphemy. In the 70's a humorous deity is still considered impossible, ridiculous, and blasphemous. As far as I'm concerned, I have proven my point. Eris is a real deity and even though I don't promote Erisianism as a serious religion.... Occupant: I do! Dexter: You speak for yourself. Ignotius: Here, here. Hill: ...I do point out that it makes just as much sense from its own perspective as all the others do from each of their own perspectives. Occupant: I think paganism is a valid spiritual path. I encourage Erisianism because it makes fun of itself. I think this is healthy. Ignotius: If you can live rewardingly with Goddess Eris you can live with any deity, including none at all. Dexter: I don't much go for the worship business but I argee with Occupant about the spirit of the thing. We live in a time of turmoil, the whole planet is in a state of change. If we, as a species, cower from the confusion then we die with the dying. This is revolution. Ignotius: I am an athiest myself. There is no Greg Hill. [laughter] Gypsie [to Hill]: What do you think of ILLUMINATUS? Hill: Oh, I love it. I was finishing PRINCIPIA when Shea and Wilson were working on ILLUMINATUS. It took Dell five years to publish it...maybe that is significant. The 1969 Discordian Society was a mail network between independent writers of various kinds. Norton Cabal was just me and my characters and I used the other Cabals as sort of a laboratory. In return other Discordians would bounce their stuff off of me. We would toss in ideas and anybody could take anything out. It was a concept stew. The exchanging of ideas and techniques broadened and encouraged all of us.
I like ILLUMINATUS for the surrealism. A very effective method of writing. Ignotius: I got misquoted. Worse, I wasn't even in that scene and if I had been then I would have said something else. Dexter [to Ignotius]: That was me in that scene. Ignotius: Oh, is that what that was? Dexter: He got our names mixed up. Hill: He got mixed up about me too, in COSMIC TRIGGER. Bob says that when Oswald was buying the assassination rifle, my girlfriend was printing the first edition of PRINCIPIA on Jim Garrison's Xerox. It wasn't my girlfriend, it was Kerry's; it wasn't the FIRST ED PRINCIPIA, it was some earlier Discordian thought; it wasn't Garrison's Xerox, it was his mimeograph; and it wasn't just before Kennedy was shot but a couple of years before that.* The FIRST ED PRINCIPIA, by the way, was reproduced at Xerox Corp when xerography was a new technology. Which was my second New Orleans trip in 1965. I worked for a guy on Bourbon Street who was a Xerox salesman by day. Dexter: I think that George Dorn took too much guff from Hagbard. If someone pulls a weapon on me, I'm more inclined to either leave or kill the sonofabitch. Occupant: You are supposed to be a pacifist. Dexter: I'm speaking figuratively of course. I'll tell you more tomorrow. Gypsie [to Hill]: Did you really translate erotic Etruscan poetry? Hill: Sure, but I used a pen name. I signed it "Robert Anton Wilson". [A quick rap is heard on the door] Gypsie: I have only one question left... Dexter: I'll get it. Gypsie: ...what I really want to know is how can we all fit inside of a tiny little post office box? Dexter[to Gypsie]: It's a telegram for you, from Mal2. Gypsie: To me? [Paper tearing] Gypsie [reading]: "If I told everybody how they could live inside of a post office box then everybody would stop paying landlords and go live inside their post office boxes. It would collapse the building! Can you imagine, post offices collapsing all over the country, the hemisphere, the PLANET! The whole world's communication system would be destroyed. No,no, I must not say. I dare not!
It took me years to get around to actually publish this. Not that it took that long to edit or anything, I just procrastinated for no real reason. Hail Eris. I hope someone smiled while looking at this. I want to fuck all of you.
TIMOTHY BOWEN a silly man with many silly names 2011
please note that these interviews were conducted online. I did not edit the grammar or spelling of myself or the person I was interviewing, as to keep a conversational feel.
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