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This
interview
was
originally
conducted
by
Dr.
Aneesh
Pradhan
in
Hindi,
and
is
available
at
http://podcasts.underscorerecords.com/
To
make
the
contents
available
to
non-Hindi
speaking
music
lovers,
it
has
been
transcribed,
translated
and
edited
by
Bharati
Nayak.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Namaskar
and
welcome
to
the
Underscore
records
podcast
series.
Nirmalji,
let
us
start
with
your
childhood
memories
and
your
association
with
music.
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
I
have
been
playing
music
since
1960.
I
got
involved
in
music
because
we
had
a
music
hall
in
our
house.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Where
was
this?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
This
was
the
Basanti
Music
Hall
at
our
home
in
Dadar,
where
all
the
music
Directors
rehearsed
and
had
their
sittings
there.
I
was
inspired
by
this
place
and
became
a
musician.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Did
this
hall
belong
to
your
family?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Yes,
my
family
owned
it.
It
was
a
very
old
one.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
So
was
the
hall
rented
out?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Sittings
took
place
there.
We
would
rent
it
out.
My
father
owned
it.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
What
did
your
father
do?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
My
father
was
a
producer.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Film
producer?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Yes,
he
was
a
film
producer.
He
frequented
the
Shrikant
Studio,
presently
known
as
RK
studios,
for
film
related
work.
He
was
also
involved
in
direction
and
photography.
He
was
a
trick
photographer.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Please
tell
his
full
name.
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Subir
Kumar
Mukherjee
All
rights
reserved.
No
part
of
this
work
may
be
reproduced
or
transmitted,
in
any
form
or
by
any
means,
electronic,
mechanical,
photocopying,
recording
or
otherwise,
without
the
prior
permission
of
the
copyright
owner/author.
The
author
asserts
the
moral
right
to
be
identified
as
the
author
of
this
work.
Page
1
of
15
Aneesh
Pradhan:
You
said
you
heard
these
sittings
at
Basanti
Hall.
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
As
these
sittings
were
right
at
my
home,
I
used
to
listen
to
it
from
behind
the
partition.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
What
type
of
people
frequented
your
place?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Hussanlal
Bhagatramji,
Bulo
C.
Rani,
C
Ramchandra,
Roshanji,
Sajjad
Sahab,
Laxmikant
Pyarelal,
all
of
them
rehearsed
there.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
What
was
your
age
then?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
I
was
ten
years
old
then.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Who
would
participate
in
these
sittings?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Many
musicians,
musicians
from
the
yesteryears.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Would
all
the
musicians
accompany
the
music
directors
or
only
a
few?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Only
a
select
few
would
be
present,
or
they
would
sometimes
have
a
full
rehearsal.
In
those
days,
there
would
be
rehearsals
-
they
would
practice
first
and
then
record.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Because
it
was
not
the
dubbing
era..
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Yes,
they
first
rehearsed
and
then
they
would
go
to
the
set
where
the
recording
would
take
place.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
So,
you
said
you
were
ten
years
old
then;
how
did
your
interest
in
music
grow
later?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
After
watching
all
this,
I
felt
an
urge
to
play
some
musical
instrument,
and
began
to
do
so
thereafter.
The
Cine
Musicians
Association
(CMA)
was
founded
at
our
place.
My
father
was
the
founder
member
of
the
CMA.
Three
associations
were
formed
in
our
house:
the
Cine
Musicians
Association,
the
Cine
Dancers
Association
and
the
Cine
Singers
Association.
We
had
a
big
house,
so
my
father
offered
some
space
as
office
premises
for
these
associations.
He
did
this
with
a
view
to
better
the
lives
of
practitioners.
I
became
a
member
of
the
CMA
in
the
year
1964.
I
was
fourteen
then.
Once
Laxmikantji
visited
our
home
for
a
sitting
and
saw
me
playing.
He
asked
me
to
come
to
his
place
at
Dixit
Road
in
Vile
Parle.
Later,
I
started
working
with
him.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Didnt
your
family
object,
since
you
were
only
fourteen
then?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
No,
I
used
to
go
to
school
then,
but
could
not
concentrate
in
studies.
I
was
interested
in
music.
I
also
played
concerts
with
Hazara
Singhs
orchestra;
he
stayed
in
the
adjacent
building.
The
orchestra
rehearsals
would
take
place
at
his
office
in
Dadar.
All
rights
reserved.
No
part
of
this
work
may
be
reproduced
or
transmitted,
in
any
form
or
by
any
means,
electronic,
mechanical,
photocopying,
recording
or
otherwise,
without
the
prior
permission
of
the
copyright
owner/author.
The
author
asserts
the
moral
right
to
be
identified
as
the
author
of
this
work.
Page
2
of
15
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Which
songs
would
be
performed
in
the
concerts?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Old
film
songs
like
Dil
Tera
Deewana,
Mera
Naam
Chin
Chin
Chu.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Were
non
film
numbers
also
included
in
the
show?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
No,
mostly
film
songs,
including
some
bhajans.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
What
was
the
name
of
the
orchestra?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Hazara
Singh
Orchestra,
named
after
Hazara
Singh,
who
used
to
play
the
Hawaiian
guitar.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
How
many
musicians
were
in
the
orchestra?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
At
least
ten
to
twelve
musicians.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
How
many
shows
would
take
place
in
a
month?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
At
least
ten
to
fifteen
shows
a
month.
Wedding
shows,
Company
shows,
such
shows
would
go
on.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Were
you
paid
a
fixed
salary
or
paid
on
per
show
basis?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
We
would
be
paid
Rs.
5/-
per
show.
I
had
no
instrument
with
me,
so
he
(Hazara
Singh)
bought
me
a
bongo
and
I
started
playing
it.
On
Laxmikantjis
call
I
went
to
Vile
Parle
and
started
playing
with
his
group
and
considering
it
as
a
good
chance,
played
with
him
till
the
end.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Nirmalji,
everyone
knows
you
as
a
renowned
percussionist
of
the
film
industry,
but
did
you
specialize
in
playing
any
particular
instrument
or
always
played
a
variety
of
instruments?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
I
specialized
in
playing
the
3
piece
congo.
I
learnt
to
play
it.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Who
did
you
learn
it
from?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
From
Prabhakar
Mashelkar,
who
was
basically
a
tabla
player.
Initially
I
learnt
tabla
from
him.
But
he
passed
away
six
to
seven
months
after
I
started
learning
from
him.
I
was
reluctant
to
continue
learning
from
anyone
else,
since
I
greatly
admired
his
method
of
teaching,
which
was
very
different.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Do
you
remember,
who
Prabhakarji
had
learnt
from?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Prabhakar
Mashelkar
belonged
to
Goa.
As
far
as
I
recollect,
he,
Shashikantji
(Laxmikantjis
elder
brother)
and
Marutirao
Keer
(renowned
tabla
player
and
R.D.
Burmans
assistant),
all
the
three
learnt
from
the
same
guru.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
So
you
said
that
you
learnt
the
tabla
for
six
months
and
later.
All
rights
reserved.
No
part
of
this
work
may
be
reproduced
or
transmitted,
in
any
form
or
by
any
means,
electronic,
mechanical,
photocopying,
recording
or
otherwise,
without
the
prior
permission
of
the
copyright
owner/author.
The
author
asserts
the
moral
right
to
be
identified
as
the
author
of
this
work.
Page
3
of
15
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Later
I
started
playing
the
conga.
In
the
sitting
room
Prabhakarji
would
show
me
how
to
place
my
hands
on
the
conga
and
to
play
it.
Although
the
congo
is
a
western
instrument,
its
sound
can
be
blended
well
with
the
sounds
of
the
dholak
and
the
tabla.
I
play
it
with
the
dholak
and
the
Tabla,
in
the
Indian
type
of
songs.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
How
did
you
continue
your
journey
as
a
musician?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
I
played
many
songs
for
Laxmikantji.
I
used
to
play
mostly
with
them
(Laxmikant- Pyarelal).
I
also
worked
as
assistant
for
music
director
Rajesh
Roshan.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Would
there
be
separate
assistants
for
rhythm
arrangements?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Yes,
unlike
today
there
would
be
separate
assistants
who
would
set
the
rhythm,
and
the
preset
rhythm
would
be
played.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
So
who
were
the
different
rhythm
arrangers
with
music
directors
in
those
times?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Marutirao
Keer
arranged
rhythm
for
S.D.
Burman
and
R.D.
Burman.
I
got
to
work
with
them
too.
Prabhakarji
worked
for
Usha
Khanna,
he
introduced
me
to
her..
I
played
there
too.
with
Barkha
Rani
and
a
few
others.I
have
been
playing
for
Rajesh
Roshan
since
the
beginning
of
his
career
till
the
film
Khudgarz.
Khudgarz
was
the
last
one
played
by
me.
The
rhythm
for
almost
all
the
songs
were
set
by
me.
Many
of
the
films
like
Julie,
Kunwara
Baap,
Yaarana,
Swarg
Narak
(
Reddy
Saabs
Movie),
Prasadjis
movie
and
Rakesh
Roshanjis
movie
Aap
ke
Deewane,
then
Khudgarz,
Mr.
Natwarlal
and
Inkaar
(included
the
song
Mungda
Mungda).
Aneesh
Pradhan:
So,
you
worked
as
an
assistant
and
also
as
a
player,
a
performer,
played
the
conga.
Apart
from
this,
have
you
tried
your
hand
at
anything
else?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Apart
from
this,
at
times,
I
have
tried
composing
when
things
got
stuck
at
some
point
and
there
was
no
way
out,
or
when
some
songs
or
situations
warranted
giving
a
different
Indian
feel
or
lending
a
regional
(Marathi)
type
of
colour
to
it.
I
have
composed
for
Marathi
titles
and
have
also
arranged
Marathi
songs.
You
might
have
heard
songs
like
Chik
Motyachi
Maal,
which
must
be
around
12
to13
years
old.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Yes,
of
course.could
you
please
sing
it
for
us?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
(Sings
Chik
Motyachi
Maal.)
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Did
you
compose
and
also
arrange
the
music
for
this
song?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Yes.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
The
entire
melody
and
rhythm?
All
rights
reserved.
No
part
of
this
work
may
be
reproduced
or
transmitted,
in
any
form
or
by
any
means,
electronic,
mechanical,
photocopying,
recording
or
otherwise,
without
the
prior
permission
of
the
copyright
owner/author.
The
author
asserts
the
moral
right
to
be
identified
as
the
author
of
this
work.
Page
4
of
15
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Yes,
the
entire
song.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
What
instruments
or
pattern
did
you
use
in
the
rhythm
for
this
song?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
I
used
the
dholak,
tabla,
dhol,
the
stroke
section,
chorus
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Was
this
song
part
of
a
private
album?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Yes,
it
was
for
a
private
album,
produced
by
Melody
Cassette
Company
that
belonged
to
some
of
my
friends.
The
company
closed
down,
but
this
song
is
popular
even
today.
Twenty-five
to
thirty
record
companies
have
recorded
versions
of
this
song.
I
have
the
original
soundtrack
of
this
song.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
When
you
worked
as
an
assistant,
did
you
use
bols
(syllables)
to
explain
a
particular
aspect,
a
pattern
or
a
theka
to
the
other
performers?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
I
would
explain
it
to
them
by
playing
the
patterns.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
On
the
conga?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
On
the
conga
or
on
the
dholak.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
So
you
play
the
dholak
too?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Only
a
little
bitI
can
play
the
Dholak,
as
far
as
making
the
performers
understand
something
is
concerned.
I
am
not
an
expert
in
playing
the
dholak
or
the
tabla
for
that
matter.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
So
you
specialize
in
playing
the
conga.
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Theres
the
conga,
and
I
also
play
tumba,
darbuka,
duff.
I
play
almost
all
the
percussion
instruments.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
But
if
there
is
a
particular
instrument
like
the
darbuka,
which
is
not
an
Indian
instrument
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
it
is
an
Arabian
instrument
a
Lebanese
instrument
Aneesh
Pradhan:
How
do
you
work
on
such
instruments,
since
no
one
teaches
to
play
these
instruments
here?
How
did
you
start
using
it?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
I
had
been
to
Dubai,
for
Asha
Bhosles
show.
After
the
show,
there
was
a
dance
party
in
the
hotel
that
night.
The
darbuka
was
played
there
with
Lebanese
dancers.
I
sat
with
them
through
the
night
and
observed
their
style
of
playing.
The
player
was
cradling
the
instrument
on
his
lap.
Here
(in
India)
we
play
it
by
holding
it
between
our
legs.
There
are
many
ways
of
playing
it.
It
can
also
be
played
by
placing
it
on
a
stand.
All
rights
reserved.
No
part
of
this
work
may
be
reproduced
or
transmitted,
in
any
form
or
by
any
means,
electronic,
mechanical,
photocopying,
recording
or
otherwise,
without
the
prior
permission
of
the
copyright
owner/author.
The
author
asserts
the
moral
right
to
be
identified
as
the
author
of
this
work.
Page
5
of
15
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Earlier,
these
instruments
were
not
available
here,
now
they
are.
You
were
mentioning
that
you
learnt
this
instrument
just
by
observing.
Is
there
any
other
instrument,
which
is
not
available
here,
or
for
which
you
dont
find
teachers
.
.
.
which
you
learnt
in
a
similar
manner,
by
yourself,
or
just
by
observation?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Many
instruments,
like
the
bagalbaccha,
which
is
played
by
holding
it
by
your
arm
side
and
pressing
it.
Then
there
is
the
hudka,
which
Johar
bhai,
a
well
known
musician,
played.
Nobody
played
it
like
he
did.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
The
hudka
..which
is
played
by
applying
pressure.
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Yes,
he
played
it
tying
it
around
his
neck
with
a
rope
and
pressing
it.
I
have
never
heard
it
the
way
he
used
to
play.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Okay.
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
I
have
never
heard
the
hudka
being
played
the
way
he
did.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
So
you
have
worked
with
him?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Yes,
he
always
used
to
play
in
Ushajis
(Khanna)
team.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Which
song
did
he
play?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
He
played
for
Ushaji
as
well
as
for
R.D.Burmans
song
Jai
Jai
Shiv
Shankar.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Where
was
he
from?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
He
was
from
Assam.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
I
see.So,
Nirmalji,
tell
us
one
thing;
you
have
been
in
the
film
industry
for
a
long
time,
what
were
the
monetary
benefits
that
you
derived
during
that
time?
What
were
the
terms
like?
Who
paid
you?
The
music
director
or
the
producer?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
The
producer
paid
us,
but
it
would
be
arranged
through
the
music
director.
O.P.
Nayyarsahab
started
the
trend
of
paying
daily
wage
basis
in
cash.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
How
was
it
paid
earlier?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
We
were
not
paid
in
cash.
Musicians
had
to
frequent
to
the
producers
office
for
months
or
years
together.
But
the
payments
were
always
delayed
or
not
received.
The
amount
too
was
paltry.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
How
much
was
it?
All
rights
reserved.
No
part
of
this
work
may
be
reproduced
or
transmitted,
in
any
form
or
by
any
means,
electronic,
mechanical,
photocopying,
recording
or
otherwise,
without
the
prior
permission
of
the
copyright
owner/author.
The
author
asserts
the
moral
right
to
be
identified
as
the
author
of
this
work.
Page
6
of
15
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
The
top
grade
artist
was
paid
Rs.140/-
It
started
with
Rs.
40/-
then
Rs.
62.50,
Rs.85
and
Rs.140.
These
were
the
scales.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Was
this
the
remuneration
for
the
percussionists?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
It
was
according
to
the
grades.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Which
year
are
you
talking
about?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
This
was
before
the
1960s.
Then
the
rates
increased
gradually
by
20%
each
time
in
1964,
then
in
1968
and
then
in
1969.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Did
the
CMA
decide
the
pay
hike?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Yes,
the
CMA
decided
it.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
So,
did
any
of
the
members
like
you
have
a
say
in
the
meetings
regarding
the
hike?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Yes,
they
were
quite
vocal
about
it.
Gradually,
we
started
being
offered
a
conveyance
of
Rs.30/-,
towards
taxi
fare
apart
from
this.
The
musicians
with
bigger
instruments
like
the
double
bass,
congo,
dhol,
etc.
were
paid
Rs.30/-.
In
those
days
the
taxi
fare
inexpensive.
Now
a
days,
this
will
not
suffice,
now
the
conveyance
is
Rs.150/-.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Is
it
a
CMA
rule?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Yes,
according
to
the
rule
Rs.150/-
has
to
be
paid.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Who
monitors
if
these
rules
are
followed
or
not?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
In
some
places,
the
work
is
based
on
personal
relations,
some
places
it
is
community
based.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
What
do
you
mean
by
a
community?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
I
mean
to
refer
to
separate
groupsbasically
Hindus
and
Muslims..it
has
taken
a
twist
Hindus
are
doing
relatively
lesser
work.
A
majority
of
the
work
is
now
done
by
the
Muslims.
It
is
now
divided
between
groups.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Are
these
prejudices
region
based
too?
Like
Rajasthan,
etc...
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Yes,
thats
whatsome
Rajasthanis
play
ravanhatta,
most
of
them
are
percussionists;
tabla
players
like
Bhavani
Shankarji
and
dholak
player
Roshan.
Many
of
them
are
from
that
region.
But,
by
and
largeit
is
all
drifting
apart.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
So,
was
it
not
like
this
earlier?
All
rights
reserved.
No
part
of
this
work
may
be
reproduced
or
transmitted,
in
any
form
or
by
any
means,
electronic,
mechanical,
photocopying,
recording
or
otherwise,
without
the
prior
permission
of
the
copyright
owner/author.
The
author
asserts
the
moral
right
to
be
identified
as
the
author
of
this
work.
Page
7
of
15
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
No,
it
was
not
so
earlier.
In
the
past,
everyone
worked
hand
in
hand.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
What
may
have
been
the
reason
for
this?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
The
reason
cant
be
deciphered.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
You
must
be
feeling
bad
about
this.
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Of
courseI
feel
bad
about
it.
But
what
can
be
done
about
it?
We
cant
do
anything.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Did
you
ever
discuss
this
with
anyone?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Yes,
I
did
talk
to
many
people
about
this.
They
feel
that
we
let
it
go
on,
as
it
is.
People
are
feeling
indifferent
about
it.
Many
musicians
who
are
getting
old,
feel
that
they
have
to
continue
only
for
a
few
years
more
and
hence
can
pull
on
it
will
be
difficult
to
even
find
a
musician
in
future.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Why,
what
about
their
kidsthe
next
generation?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
No,
the
next
generation
is
not
too
keen
on
learning.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Are
the
musicians
not
teaching
or
the
kids
not
learning?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
They
are
not
learning,
because
they
see
their
fathers
unemployed.
How
will
they
be
inclined
towards
learning
in
this
situation?
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Why
is
there
paucity
of
work?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
It
may
be
due
to
the
electronic
media
having
set
in
or
because
of
communal
prejudices.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
So,
there
is
no
single
reason
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
No,
you
cannot
pin
down
just
one
reason.
The
lump
sum
as
they
call
it,
has
made
a
difference
too.
Earlier
the
producers
cashier
would
come
down
to
the
studio
to
finalize
a
list
of
musicians,
after
which
they
would
disburse
the
payments.
Nowadays,
the
music
director
has
a
budget,
say
up
to
six
lakhs
to
ten
lakhs
and
the
song
has
to
be
done
in
the
budget
allocated
to
him.
He
gets
the
entire
amount.
Then
it
is
up
to
him
to
decide
how
much
is
to
be
spent.
He
may
finish
off
in
one
and
a
half
lakhs
or
even
spend
ten
lakhs
for
the
same.
Previously,
the
producer
would
spend
the
money.
So
he
would
calculate
the
amount
to
be
disbursed
taking
into
account
the
total
number
of
musicians.
Suppose
there
were
eighty
musicians
that
would
cost
him
around
two
lakhs
then,
for
instance.
Today,
even
four
musicians
may
cost
him
two
lakhs.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
I
see.
So,
were
the
arrangements
separate
for
the
background
score
and
for
the
songs,
earlier
and
now?
All
rights
reserved.
No
part
of
this
work
may
be
reproduced
or
transmitted,
in
any
form
or
by
any
means,
electronic,
mechanical,
photocopying,
recording
or
otherwise,
without
the
prior
permission
of
the
copyright
owner/author.
The
author
asserts
the
moral
right
to
be
identified
as
the
author
of
this
work.
Page
8
of
15
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Yes
separate.
A
standard
shift
would
be
six
hours
for
a
song
and
eight
hours
for
the
background
score.
They
are
the
same
even
now.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Were
you
paid
separately
and
if
so,
on
what
basis?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Yes.
For
example,
if
we
would
get
Rs.
1,800
for
a
song
recording,
we
would
get
Rs.
2,700
for
a
background
score.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Around
when
was
this?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
This
continues
till
today.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
It
also
might
be
so
happening
that
you
are
not
required
to
play
the
entire
session?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
No,
not
the
entire
session,
but
as
far
as
a
background
score
was
concerned,
I
was
expected
to
wait
for
at
least
eight
hours.
Even
if
I
had
to
play
four
pieces,
I
had
to
wait
till
it
was
completed.
Everything
was
operated
manually.
It
would
be
controlled
by
the
arranger
and
he
would
guide
us
on
when
to
start
and
stop.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Would
they
screen
the
film
for
you?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Yes,
we
would
work
watching
the
film
sequence
and
its
timing.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Does
it
happen
the
same
way,
even
today?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
No.
Since
everything
is
computerized
now,
a
whole
day
is
spent
in
setting
up
the
click
in
different
tempos
and
then
it
is
fed
in
the
computer
from
the
beginning
till
the
end
for
the
background
score.
Earlier,
we
would
move
scene
wise
and
would
play
when
signaled.
It
is
not
so
now.
It
works
at
the
press
of
a
button
and
we
play
from
the
start
to
the
end
of
the
reel.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
So,
you
dont
need
to
watch
the
film
now?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
No,
we
play
on
cue,
the
bars
assigned
on
the
click.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Do
they
tell
you
what
to
play?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Yes,
they
tell
us
what
to
play
or
they
give
us
the
click
on
which
we
play
the
desired
portion
and
once
we
finish
playing,
they
paste
it
wherever
required.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
But
how
do
they
tell
you
the
pattern
to
be
played?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
They
already
have
the
patterns
recorded,
and
since
everything
is
programmed,
we
have
limitations
on
what
is
to
be
played.
Hence,
we
cant
play
beyond
the
predetermined
structure.
Earlier,
while
doing
the
background
score,
it
was
not
so,
we
had
the
liberty
to
play
and
respond
to
what
we
felt
about
the
music.
All
rights
reserved.
No
part
of
this
work
may
be
reproduced
or
transmitted,
in
any
form
or
by
any
means,
electronic,
mechanical,
photocopying,
recording
or
otherwise,
without
the
prior
permission
of
the
copyright
owner/author.
The
author
asserts
the
moral
right
to
be
identified
as
the
author
of
this
work.
Page
9
of
15
Aneesh
Pradhan:
So,
now
it
is
quite
restricted
.
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Yes,
now
it
is
quite
limited
and
there
is
no
feel
to
it.
We
recorded
live
earlier
and
just
on
the
arrangers
signal
to
play
sixteen
rhythm
bars
extra
if
needed,
we
would
promptly
do
so.
Now
if
we
have
to
play
sixteen
extra
bars,
a
whole
day
is
wasted,
as
it
has
to
be
fed
in
the
machine.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
So,
Nirmalji,
when
you
played
at
the
recordings,
suppose
there
was
a
song
being
recorded,
there
would
be
changes
in
the
theka
and
in
the
rhythm
patterns
too,
so
how
would
you
remember
all
these
changes,
of
course,
there
would
be
rehearsals
as
you
mentioned,
but
still..
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Earlier,
we
had
rehearsals
of
the
song
from
9am
to
11am.
The
final
rehearsals
would
start
after
11am.
Till
then
all
the
parts
would
be
memorized.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Did
the
singers
come
for
the
rehearsals
from
the
beginning?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
No,
they
would
come
after
11am
and
we
would
then
have
the
final
rehearsals
with
them.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
So,
did
you
then
start
with
dummy
voices
till
then?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
No.no
voices,
we
rehearsed
only
the
music
till
then.
The
obbligato,
interludes,
the
introduction,
the
first,
second,
third
music
pieces
and
so
on,
would
be
rehearsed
till
then.
Then
we
used
to
have
the
full
rehearsal
and
note
the
changes
in
the
song.
Once
the
whole
song
was
put
together,
we
would
get
an
idea
of
the
position
of
the
changes
and
the
requisite
changes
were
incorporated
accordingly.
Everything
was
fixed
and
predetermined
then
and
if
at
all
anybody
had
a
slip
up,
it
was
cut
there
and
the
whole
thing
had
to
be
redone.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
I
asked
this
because
in
some
sections
of
the
orchestra
they
did
use
notations
too..
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
The
violins,
stroke
parts,
clarinet,
flute,
etc.
used
notations.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
In
the
western
style?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
In
either
the
Indian
or
the
Western
style,
according
to
their
convenience.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Would
the
rhythm
section
have
notations
too?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
In
the
rhythm
section
mostly
no
one
wrote
down
the
notations,
they
played
by
memorizing
their
parts.
Now
we
have
to
write
down,
since
we
have
to
play
with
the
machines.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
In
what
system
do
you
write
it?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
We
write
it
bar
wise
and
if
and
where
there
are
changes
in
the
pattern,
we
write
down
the
thekaswe
write
down
the
changes
in
the
theka
All
rights
reserved.
No
part
of
this
work
may
be
reproduced
or
transmitted,
in
any
form
or
by
any
means,
electronic,
mechanical,
photocopying,
recording
or
otherwise,
without
the
prior
permission
of
the
copyright
owner/author.
The
author
asserts
the
moral
right
to
be
identified
as
the
author
of
this
work.
Page
10
of
15
Aneesh
Pradhan:
The
complete
theka.
and
its
bols
(syllables)?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Yes,
we
make
a
note
of
the
bols
(syllables)
which
makes
us
figure
out
the
changes
to
be
done,
like
which
pattern
has
to
be
changed,
where,
following
which
one,
so
on.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
I
have
heard,
for
instance,
Keherwa
is
a
cycle
of
eight
or
four
beats;
usually
it
is
seen
that
Keherwa
is
not
played
in
the
same
manner
everywhere,
its
patterns
change
according
to
the
song;
it
is
so
even
with
Dadra.
So,
do
you
have
specific
names
for
those
patterns
or
beats?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
As
an
example,
if
the
3/4
beats
are
to
be
played
in
a
slow
tempo,
we
note
the
pattern
as
slow
3/4.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
So,
if
you
mention
3/4
to
someone,
they
understand
that
it
is
the
beats
pattern.
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Yes
as
we
played,
we
would
explain
that
this
is
the
type
of
the
slow
3/4
beats
pattern
and
on
moving
ahead,
it
has
to
go
double,
thus
making
it
the
6/8
beats
pattern.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Can
you
recite
the
patterns?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
(Recites
the
first
rhythm
pattern)
Aneesh
Pradhan:
What
pattern
is
this?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
This
is
the
3/4
pattern.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Next?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
(Recites
the
second
rhythm
pattern)this
one
is
played
on
the
brush,
the
first
one
is
played
on
the
tumba
(plays
the
rhythm
pattern)
and
on
the
tabla
(recites
the
rhythm
pattern)
Aneesh
Pradhan:
How
would
it
sound
on
going
double?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
(recites
rhythm
pattern).it
would
be
6/8
then.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Any
patterns
of
Keherwa?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
In
the
2/4
rhythm
pattern,
it
would
sound
like
this
(recites
two
patterns
in
2/4)usually
played
on
the
dholakon
going
double
it
will
be
(plays)
and
double
speed
of
this
too.
(recites
the
pattern)so
we
move
stepwise
like
this.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
So,
did
it
ever
happen
that
some
thekas
used
in
some
film
songs
became
popular
and
they
got
associated
with
the
song
or
the
music
director?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Yes,
there
is
Rajesh
Roshans
song
Dil
Kya
Kare
(recites
the
pattern
used
in
the
song),
then
theres
Laxmijis
song
Buddhu
Pad
Gaya
Palle
(recites
the
pattern)
for
which
I
had
composed
the
rhythm
pattern
and
had
played
it
too.
All
rights
reserved.
No
part
of
this
work
may
be
reproduced
or
transmitted,
in
any
form
or
by
any
means,
electronic,
mechanical,
photocopying,
recording
or
otherwise,
without
the
prior
permission
of
the
copyright
owner/author.
The
author
asserts
the
moral
right
to
be
identified
as
the
author
of
this
work.
Page
11
of
15
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Which
instruments
were
used
for
this
song?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
We
used
the
dholak,
tabla
and
conga
combination
while
composing
the
theka
for
this
song.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Apart
from
this
particular
film,
was
this
pattern
used
in
other
films?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Many
used
this
theka
played
for
the
song
Buddhu
Pad
Gaya
Palle.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
So,
the
musicians
remember
where
and
in
which
film
they
had
heard
a
particular
pattern
being
played.
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Yes,
they
would
remember.
Some
patterns
or
thekas
would
have
their
names,
like
the
Saajan
theka(plays)
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Why
Saajan?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Because
it
was
played
in
the
film
Saajan.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Who
did
the
music
for
the
film?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Nadeem-
Shravan.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Was
this
rhythm
pattern
composed
by
them
or
by
some
percussionist?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Some
percussionist
might
have
played
thisdesigning
it.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Could
you
recite
it
again?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
(Recites
the
Saajan
pattern)
Aneesh
Pradhan:
In
which
song
was
this
pattern
used?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Dekha
Hai
Pehli
Baar,
Saajan
Ke
Aankhon
mein
Pyaar.
(sings
the
song
and
recites
the
pattern)
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Any
other
songs?
Aneesh
Pradhan:
I
have
heard
about
the
Sargam
pattern
too
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
In
the
film
Sargam,
the
duff
was
used
in
the
song,
Dafliwaale
Dafli
Baja
(sings
the
song
and
recites
the
pattern).
Many
ambient
instruments
were
usedtabla
and
dholak
were
also
usedthey
were
mixed
together.
in
Laxmijis
recordings.
Laxmijis
film
Shor
had
a
song
Ek
Pyaar
Ka
Nagma
Hai..
(recites
the
pattern)these
types
of
thekas
were
played
in
Laxmijis
recordings.
The
All
rights
reserved.
No
part
of
this
work
may
be
reproduced
or
transmitted,
in
any
form
or
by
any
means,
electronic,
mechanical,
photocopying,
recording
or
otherwise,
without
the
prior
permission
of
the
copyright
owner/author.
The
author
asserts
the
moral
right
to
be
identified
as
the
author
of
this
work.
Page
12
of
15
aspect
of
creation
was
seen
in
a
select
few
creative
Music
Directors
like
Kalyanji-Anandji,
Laxmikant- Pyarelal,
and
R.D.
Burman
were
the
only
music
directors
who
offered
a
variety.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Variety
as
in
rhythm
or
in
every
aspect?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Variety
in
everything.
R
D
Burman
was
exceptional
with
the
rhythm
and
its
combinations.
If
anybody
wanted
to
learn
the
combinations,
he
should
have
worked
with
R
D.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Did
you
work
with
R
D
Burman?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Yes.
I
played
the
song
Muthu
Kodi
Kawwadi
Hadathat
was
my
first
song
with
R
D
Burman.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
So,
did
you
play
conga
in
the
song?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Yes,
I
played
the
conga
for
the
song.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
So,
how
was
your
experience
with
him?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Very
good.
He
was
a
very
nice
person.
I
have
not
seen
anyone
as
jolly
as
he
was.
He
sat
with
the
musicians,
ate
and
mingled
with
them.
He
was
never
partial.
He
respected
the
musicians
and
appreciated
especially
the
ones
who
played
well,
because
he
himself
was
a
musician.
Panchamda
(R
D
Burman)
was
a
musician
(he
even
played
the
mouth
organ).
Aneesh
Pradhan:
He
also
used
to
sing
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Yes,
he
used
to
sing.
Pyarelalji
had
arranged
the
music
for
R.D.s
first
film
Bhoot
Bangla,
in
the
song
Jaago
Sone
Waalon.
They
had
very
friendly
relations
and
would
call
up
each
other
often.
I
have
also
worked
with
S.D.
Burmansahab,
in
the
film
Abhimaanthe
song
Loote
Koi
Man
Ka
Nagar
Ban
Ke
Mera
Saathi(sings)....I
have
played
in
the
song.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Who
had
arranged
the
music
for
it?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Basu
Manohari
and
Marutiraoji.
In
those
days,
S
D
Burman
and
R
D
Burman
had
their
hands
full
with
several
assignments.
Famous
Studio
in
Tardeo
and
the
Film
Centre
were
located
close
to
each
other.
Once,
S
D
wanted
to
go
to
the
studio
where
Panchamda
was
recording.
So
he
told
me
to
supervise
the
work,
which
he
had
set
and
arranged.
I
also
played
the
song
Baagon
Mein
Jugnu
Chamke
from
the
film
Jugnu,
for
S
D
Burman.
In
short,
I
did
a
lot
of
work
with
S
D
Burman.
I
also
worked
with
Madan
Mohanji.
I
played
for
his
film
Mausam.
The
song
Dil
Dhoondhta
Hai
in
the
film
was
played
by
me.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
So,
Nirmalji,
did
you
ever
teach
anyone
either
from
the
film
industry
or
anyone
from
outside
the
industry?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Yes,
I
taught
many
people,
including
Pratapji
(Pratap
Rath,
a
well-known
percussionist
from
the
film
industry).
Many
of
these
musicians
are
earning
good
money
abroad.
I
am
All
rights
reserved.
No
part
of
this
work
may
be
reproduced
or
transmitted,
in
any
form
or
by
any
means,
electronic,
mechanical,
photocopying,
recording
or
otherwise,
without
the
prior
permission
of
the
copyright
owner/author.
The
author
asserts
the
moral
right
to
be
identified
as
the
author
of
this
work.
Page
13
of
15
satisfied
that
by
Gods
grace
they
are
earning
a
decent
livelihood.
I
have
never
charged
anything
for
teaching
others
because
I
too
was
not
charged
a
fee
by
anyone
who
taught
me.
Prabhakarji
never
charged
me
any
fees
and
taught
me
with
great
love
and
affection.
Kawas
Baba
taught
me
how
to
hold
the
triangle
or
the
maracas;
these
are
the
people
who
actually
groomed
me.
They
greatly
inspired
me;
they
shared
their
skills
about
the
manner
in
which
a
particular
instrument
is
to
be
played.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
I
have
observed
that
percussion
players
play
many
instruments
whereas
other
instrumentalists
specialize
in
their
own
instrument.
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Yes,
for
instance,
a
Mandolin
player
will
play
at
the
most
the
Banjo,
the
Guitar,
the
Oud,
the
Rabab
or
the
Electric
guitar.
He
wont
go
beyond
that.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Like
Sitar
players
will
play
only
Sitar
but
percussionists?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Because
there
is
a
huge
range
of
percussive
instruments.
There
is
a
lot
of
scope
to
play
these
instruments;
also
the
style
of
playing
differs
with
each
of
them.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Also,
nobody
(percussionist)
refuses
to
play
other
instruments.
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Nobody
refuses,
and
if
the
musician
is
willing
to
play,
he
can
actually
do
so.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Suppose
you
play
more
than
one
instrument,
now
that
it
is
the
dubbing
age,
for
a
single
song,
are
you
paid
separately
per
session?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Yes,
we
are
paid
separately
for
each
session.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
What
about
double
tracks?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Yes,
we
are
paid
accordingly.
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Some
people
dont
pay
or
dont
want
to.
Or
we
forego
any
extra
payment
if
someone
requests
us,
or
if
one
of
our
musicians
is
recording.
We
dont
mind
even
if
he
asks
us
to
play
for
ten
different
tracks,
keeping
in
mind
that
he
is
getting
an
opportunity
and
he
should
be
able
to
establish
himself.
If
he
does
well,
the
rest
will
also
be
employed.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Nirmalji,
you
have
played
in
so
many
songs,
have
you
ever
got
an
opportunity
to
note
down
anything
related
to
the
song,
or
have
notated
any
of
the
pieces
or
the
thekas
that
you
played
or
anything
for
that
matter?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
Till
now,
we
played
by
rote
in
most
cases.
Now,
we
are
required
to
notate.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Now,
once
you
notate,
do
you
save
it
or
dispose
it
off
after
the
sessions?
Nirmal
Mukherjee:
No,
no
one
keeps
the
notations
after
the
sessions,
once
the
song
is
recorded.
Aneesh
Pradhan:
Nobody?
All
rights
reserved.
No
part
of
this
work
may
be
reproduced
or
transmitted,
in
any
form
or
by
any
means,
electronic,
mechanical,
photocopying,
recording
or
otherwise,
without
the
prior
permission
of
the
copyright
owner/author.
The
author
asserts
the
moral
right
to
be
identified
as
the
author
of
this
work.
Page
14
of
15
Nirmal Mukherjee: Nobody keeps it, only the violinists parts are preserved. Aneesh Pradhan: Who keeps it? Nirmal Mukherjee: The arranger collects it and hands it over to the music director. Aneesh Pradhan: Do the music directors preserve it? Nirmal Mukherjee: Yes, they keep them. Even today, you can still get some old files from Laxmikant Pyarelals time. Everything is written down there. And as far as the rhythm part is concerned, everyone knows and remembers the parts that have been played and we play that by rote. Whenever we play for our boss, (we call Pyarebhai the boss), or play in some show, whenever he has asked us whether we remembered a particular song, we always said yes. Aneesh Pradhan: So, you still play for shows? Nirmal Mukherjee: Yes, even now. Aneesh Pradhan: Do you play only the congas in the shows? Nirmal Mukherjee: Conga, tumba, duff or any instrument that the song demands. . Aneesh Pradhan: Do you also go abroad for shows? Nirmal Mukherjee: I have travelled abroad many times for shows. I worked with Asha Bhonsale for four years and been abroad for her shows during these four years. I also visited America with her. Aneesh Pradhan: Nirmalji, it was really nice meeting and talking to you. You are such an experienced artist from the film industry. Thanks for sharing all this information with us. Your fans and all of us will keep listening to your music in the years to come. Thanks a lot! Namaskaar!
All rights reserved. No part of this work may be reproduced or transmitted, in any form or by any means, electronic, mechanical, photocopying, recording or otherwise, without the prior permission of the copyright owner/author. The author asserts the moral right to be identified as the author of this work. Page 15 of 15