IN THE SUPERIOR

COURT OF THE STATE OF ARIZONA OF PINAL

IN AND FOR THE COUNTY MARTIN McDONALD, a married man,

Plaintiff, vs. CITY OF MARICOPA; KOLMAN, and ROGER
) ) ) )

No. CV2010-00775

Defendants.

)

--------------------------------)

DEPOSITION

OF ROGER

GLENN KOLMAN

Tempe, Arizona November 15, 2010 10:00 a.m.

Ottma« Er A~t"~
PREPARED FOR: MS. CLAIR W. LANE ATTORNEY AT LAW (COPY) Reported by: HALEY WESTRA, RPR Arizona CCR No. 50762 2800 N. Central, Ste. 150 Phoenix, Arizona 85004 (602) 485-1488 1 -866-485-1444

lVU/.

Roger
2
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

Glenn

Kolman

11/15/2010
4

2

DEPOSITION OF ROGER GLENN KOLMAN, taken on November 15,2010, commencing at 9:58 a.m., at the law offices of CLAIR WILLIAM LANE, LTD., One West Elliot, Suite 106, Tempe, Arizona, before HALEY WESTRA, a Certified Reporter in the State of Arizona. COUNSEL APPEARING: CLAIR WILLIAM LANE, LTD. BY: Mr. CIll,lrWilham Lane One West Elliot, Suite 106 TelJl~, Arizona 85284 dalrl§!cw lane.com Attorneys for Plaintiff TIIE DOYLE FIRM, P.C. BY: Mr. WIlliam H. Doyle 1313 East Osborn Road;::;uite 100 Phoenix lU1zona 85014 wdoyle@doylelawgroup.com Attorney for Defendant ALSO PRESENT: Mr. Martin J. McDonald Mr. Denis Fitzgibbons

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

EXHIBITS DESCRIPTION NO.8 Letter to Corrine Wilcox-Cornu from Martin J. McDonald, dated 1I10/2008","Re: Collegiate Pacific Purchase Order"

MARKED 29

No.9

BSN Sports invoice to City of 30 Maricopa in the amount of$l ,946.85, dated 1714/2008 46 54

No. 10 Letter to Mr. Sandler from Mr. Kolman, dated 6113/2008 No. 11 Letter to Mr. Sandler from Mr. Kolman, dated 6/25/2008, "Re: Mr. Martin McDonald"

10
11

10
11

No. 12 "Vendor History - With Description, 71 Transection Dates: OIlOl12003 1111312009," from the Caselle system No. 13 "Vendor History - With Description, 71 Transaction Dates: 01/01/2005 10/27/2009," from the Caselle system No. 14 Maricopa Justice of the Peacer State of Arizona; County of Pin a "Release Questionnaire No. 15 E-mail to Mr. Musa from Detective Theron Quaas, "Subject: RE: city 9fm~r~copa inyestiganon Ill,VO VLnjt8 fedex account," dated 1/2220ON 75 77

12
13

12
13

14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

14 15
16

17
18

19
20

*
REQUEST

*

*
REQUESTS PAGE 27

21
22 23

FLAGGED

DESCRIPTION

No. 148~equest for a copy of PO number No.2 Request for a copy of the cancelled PO file 70

24
25

3
1

5
1

INDEX PAGE 5 ROGER GLENN KOLMAN EXAMINATION BY MR. LANE EXHIBITS

ROGER GLENN KOLMAN, a witness herein, having been first duly sworn by the Certified Reporter to speak the truth and nothing but the truth, was examined and testified as follows: EXAMINATION BY MR. LANE: Q. Could you state your name for the record, please. A. It's Roger Glenn Kolman. Q. Have you ever had your deposition taken
A.

2 WITNESS
3 4 5 6 7 8

2 3 4 5 6

*

*

*
MARKED

EXHIBITS DESCRIPTION No.1

7

9 10
11

E-mail to ~. l.estt)e from 10 Mr. McDonal ,.' Su ject: One Last Favor'sNeed An Account Number," dated 116/2005 E-mail to Mr. McDonald from Ms. Jessee, "Su~ect: RE: One Last Favor'sNeed an ccount Number," dated 117/2005 Midwest Premiums {k Promotions invoice to ~itg: 0 Manc~a in the @?20untof 7 72, date 2(12007, wit ~uotep"No Vendor Rc to PO for Bil ing urposes."
II

8
9 10 11

No.2

12
13

12 before?

14 15
16

No.3

fi.

19

13

Yes.

14

Q. Okay. Even though you have, I want to go over One of the most important is that this is like a tennis match, so she can't take down both of us talking at the same time. There will be times when you the ball hits the ground first, then I'll stop, and A. Okay. Q. Okay. Nods of the head, she can't take down. same. So "yes," "no," "correct," "incorrect" would be

15 some basic rules.

17 18 19 20
21

No.4.

Midwest I?remi~s & Promotions invoice to ~I~ of anc~a m thB amount of 7 9.72 date 8/29/2 07, With quott)fu'~ei~ 0 ~ment history. He paid WI IS C ec 2397." CQm_; f a check from Mr. Mc'Qon~ld o to MI wept Pr~mlUms Promr:s In t e amount 0 $4, 35.13, ated 103/2007 Midwest Premiums & Promotions mvoice to ~I~ o$~ardcopa In the amount of 2, 9 .4, ated 911112007 BSN SP.ortt quotation t~ Cit~ 28 Mancofa m t e amount 0 $1, 4 .86, dated 1 I 0/2008 (continue)

20

16 17 18

No.5 No.6. No.7

fa

24 26

19 anticipate what I'm asking. So let's just wait until
20

21 then you can begin.
22 23

22 23 24
25

rg

24 The words "uh-huh" and "huh-uh" look strikingly the
25

OTTMAR

& ASSOCIATES

602-485-1488

Roger
1 appreciated. 2 3
4

Glenn

Kolman
1 2 3 4

11/15/2010
Page 8
A.

3

Page 6 Is that fair? Yeah. Okay. MR. DOYLE: Relax. A. Uh-huh.

Q.

Q.

1fT ask you a question and you don't

A. It was like July of2008. I'm sorry.

understand it, please tell me, and I'll try and assume you understood it. Is that fair? A. Okay.

5 rephrase it. So if you give me an answer, I'm going to
6 7 8 9

5 BY MR. LANE: 6

Q.

And that is when Mrs. Sneed became finance

7 director?
8 9

Q. Okay. Those are the basics.
MR. LANE: Is there anything else, MR. DOYLE: That's fine.

A. Like I said, I'm not sure if there was some overlap between.

10 Counsel, you want me to add? 11 12 BY MR. LANE: 13

10 11

Q.

Okay. That's fair. When you began with the City in May of

12 '04, was Marty McDonald working there?
13

Q.

Okay. You're presently the assistant city

A. I think Marty had been hired but hadn't

14 manager of the City of Maricopa? 15 16 17 18 19 20

14 actually started yet. 15

A. Yes.

Q.

Okay. And when he carne to work there, how

Q. Q. Q.
A.

And when did you start with the City? And what was your position at that time? And you've been employed by the City of Yes. As I understand it, at a certain time period,

16 many employees were there total back in the '04 era, 17 for lack of a better expression? 18

A. It would have been May of2004. A. Finance director.

A. When Marty and I started, there were two

19 employees that were actually there. It was Rick Buss 20 was the acting city manager and the clerk, and Vanessa 21 Bueras was the administrative assistant. 22

21 Maricopa since that time? 22 23

Q.

Now, I understand sometime in the October or

Q.

23 so time frame of '05, there was an issue with regard to 24 some FedEx shipping. Are you familiar with that issue? 25 A.

24 you were promoted to assistant city manager? 25

A. Yes. Page 7

Very vaguely, but ... Page 9 Do you understand if whether it involved

1 2 3

Q. Q.

And when was that? Did you also retain the title of finance

1

Q.

A. It would have been in July of2008.

2 billings from FedEx that were sent to the City? What's 3 your understanding of that, sir? 4

4 director during that time period?
5 6 7 8

A. My understanding of the issue was that the

A. I'm trying to remember, because I don't remember when Cynthia came. So there may have been some overlap in there.

5 City received a phone call from Federal Express 6 indicating that we were overdue on paying, on bill 7 payment.
8

Q.

Okay. Then Mr. Evans was hired when?

Q. Q.

And did you take that call yourself? Who took the call, if you remember?

9

A. He was hired by the council in December of

9 10
11

A. No, I did not take that call. A. It would have been either Corrine Comn or

10 2007 and started like January 23rd of2008. 11

Q.

And then did you go back being finance

12 director at that time? 13 14

12 Alina Mangru. 13 14 15

A. Yes.

Q. Q.

That's back in '05? And so Corrine Comn was working there in '05

Q.

And now you're what, an assistant city manager

A. Yes.

15 now? 16 17 18 19

A. Yes.

16 also? 17 18 19

Q. Q.

And when did you get that position? When did you rise up to that position from

A. Yes.

A. I didn't understand.

Q.
A.

What did you do with the information? Like I said, the whole -- my recollection of

20 finance director? 21

20 it is very vague at this time, but I -- the normal 21 process would have been to look to see if we had 22 actually paid any of those bills. 23

A. Oh, I'm sorry. I thought that was the

22 question you just asked. 23 24 25

Q. Q.

No. Mr. Evans carne in in the start of'08 -Right.

Q.

And what was your determination after that

A. Oh, no, no. I'm sorry. Just before that.

24 process? 25

A. I'm assuming that we determined we didn't pay

OTTMAR

& ASSOCIATES

602-485-1488

Roger
1 any of them, because nothing ever came of it.
2

Glenn

Kolman
1
2

11/15/2010
Page 12 A. I do not recall that.

4

Page 10

Q. Did you have a discussion with Mr. McDonald
A. I'm sure I did.

Q.
A-

Are you saying you don't -- you just have no I'm saying I do not recall that. Okay. I'm showing you what we've marked as

3 about those bills?
4 5

3 memory?
4 5 6

Q.
A-

Okay. Was he able to give you a response and Well, like I said, Mr. Lane, my recollection

Q.

6 an explanation about those bills or ...
7

Exhibit 2, ask you if you've ever seen that document
A-

7 before. Have you ever seen that document before? 8 9 10 11

8 is very vague on what the actual transcribed at the 9 time -- or transpired at the time. (sic) 10
11

I don't think I've ever seen this before. You don't recall, or you've never seen it? Okay. With respect to document number 1,

Q. Q.

MR. DOYLE: If you don't remember, just say you don't remember. Okay? If you remember him. THE WITNESS: Okay. (Exhibit No. I was marked.)

A. I can't say that I have ever seen it before.

12 something or you have a reasonable recollection, tell
13

12 do you recall placing it in a file?
13

A. Like I said, I can't recall having seen this

14 15

14 before, so ... 15

Q.

Now, I believe in 2007, Mr. McDonald filed a

16 BY MR. LANE: 17

16 complaint against you, did he not? 17 18

Q.

Let me show you what we're marking as MRDOYLE: Give me one.

A. Yes, I believe he did in April.

18 Exhibit I. 19 20 21

Q. Q.

And you responded to that complaint? I believe you stated to authorities that Marty

19 20

A. Yes.

MR LANE: Yeah. MR. DOYLE: You keep the originaL And

21 apologized to you for filing that complaint? 22 23 24 25

22 then when we're done with that one, you just put it 23 back over on the other side. 24 25

A. Yes, he did.

Q.

Did you ever apologize to Marty? MR. DOYLE: Object to the form. Page 13

THE WITNESS: Okay. Page 11

1 BY MR. LANE: 2
3

1 BY MR. LANE: 2 3

Q.

I'm showing you what we've marked as

Q.

If you know. MR. DOYLE: The response to the complaint

Exhibit I. Have you ever seen that document before? A. I -- yes.

4 5 6

4 contains an apology. What are you asking him? 5 BY MR. LANE:
6 7 8 9

Q.

And when did you first see it?

A. The first time I can recall having seen this

Q.

Did Marty ever apologize to you? MRDOYLE: Asked and answered.

7 would have been in 2008, maybe 2009. 8
9

Q.

Are you saying you never saw it before, or you

BY MR. LANE:

don't recall seeing it before? A. I am saying I do not recall seeing it before.

Q.

Go ahead.

10 11

10
11

A. Yes.

Q.

SO there's a possibility you saw it and just

Q. And how did he apologize to you? Was it in
A. It was orally.

12 don't remember? 13 14

12 writing, oral, how was that?
13

A. That is possible. (Exhibit No.2 was marked.)

14

Q.
A

Were you aware of any written document where I am not aware of any written document from It's also my understanding that that

15 BYMRLANE: 16

15 Marty apologized to you, sir? 16 17 Marty. 18

Q.

Rick Buss was the city manager during 2005;

17 is that right? 18

A. His title might have been acting city manager,

Q.

19 but, yes, I agree. 20 21 22 23 24

19 particular complaint was later withdrawn by Marty; 20 is that fair? Is that your understanding? 21 22

Q.
A-

He was the top dog -Yes. -- for whatever title he had; is that fair? Did you ever tell him you wanted to start a

A. That is my understanding.

Q. Q.

Q.

Now, as the finance director, did you set

A. Yes.

23 forth certain policies with respect to how bills are 24 paid? 25

25 criminal investigation of that FedEx account in 2005?

A. Yes.

OTTMAR

& ASSOCIATES

602-485-1488

Roger
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15

Glenn

Kolman
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12

11/15/2010
Page 16 MR. DOYLE: When? MR. LANE: In 2007. A. Process for getting the invoice paid. The

5

Page 14

Q. And give me, in brief, how it works. How does
an employee who wants the City to buy something, what's the first thing they do? A. Well, are you asking now, or are you asking back then? Q. Back then. A. Okay. Q. Let's go to the 2007 time frame, when you were finance director. A. 2007, because the entity would have been in evolution, so, of course, things kind of change as you grow up, but in 2007, they would have request -- put in a requisition to the purchasing department, gotten all the proper signatures, and purchasing would have ordered whatever item they were looking for by the PO. Q. When you say "they," that would be a department head or somebody that wanted the City to buy something for them? A. Yes. Q. Whether it's police cars or anything like that? A. Yes. Q. Okay. And the request is then given to somebody in the finance department? A. In purchasing. Page 15 Q. Okay. And is that a form? A. Yes. Q. Okay. And what does that person then do with the form, the request? A. Well, depending on what they were purchasing, they would have given to the purchasing people the requisition, they would've checked to see if the money was in the budget, all of that fun kind of stuff, and ifit was there, then that requisition would become a purchase order, and purchasing would have acquired the item; or if it was something they had to bid, they would have gone through the bid process. Q. Okay. So in some cases you need to get a bid first and then approve a purchase order? A. Yes. Q. Depending on the item? A. Yes. Q. And in some cases if they already had a cost that they were comfortable with, then they could just go straight to purchase order and eliminate the middle "getting a bid"; is that fair? A. Yes, depending on the size of the purchase. Q. Okay. Now, when an invoice comes in from a vendor, what's the process by which that invoice gets paid?

invoice would have come to the finance department, to the accounts payable clerks. BY MR. LANE:

Q. Okay.
A. They would have matched up the requisition and the purchasing order to the item and then gotten it -if they received it directly, then they would have gotten »- for example, office supplies. They would have just processed for payment. But if it was then they would have gotten somebody else -- the department head or whoever was responsible -- to sign off on the invoice approving payment. Q. In other words, if it was their own department, they already have the information, I would assume? A. No. For example, because purchasing -- we have a central receiving. Q. Sure.
A.

13 something that would have been received somewhere else,
14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

So for things like office supplies from

OfficeMax, they get all that stuff, so they already have that information. But if it was something -- I Page 17 don't know, baseballs-Q. Okay. A. -- they may not have necessarily have received that, so that invoice with the package would have gone out for approval. Q. It's my understanding that they actually had a stamp that they stamped the incoming invoice, one that had places for various initials.
A.

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1 2 3 4 5

3
4 5 6 7 B 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

That is true.

Q. Was that your procedure that you established as finance director? A. Yes. Q. And assuming that the invoice comes in and a stamp is placed on it by someone, what's the procedure to have, say, the various people approve it? A. Okay. Could you repeat that, please. Q. Well, assume that they stamp it. It's my understanding there's three lines on the stamp in 2007 -- department, purchasing, and finance. Is that fair? A. That's fair. Q. And I assume if it wasn't something finance already knew about, such as the supplies you talked about, there's a procedure by which it would be circulated to the department first -- or second,

OTTMAR

& ASSOCIATES

602-485-1488

Roger
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

Glenn

Kolman
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

11/15/2010
Page 20 Q. Is that the stamp that you're talking about

6

Page 18 doesn't matter -- right?
A.

Yes.

that says "Paid," or is there another stamp that has the department, purchasing, and finance on it? A. There's another stamp. Q. Can you explain to me if it was paid by the City, why it was paid without the stamp, sir? MR. DOYLE: Object to the form. If you know. And you've already said you THE WITNESS: I don't know. BY MR. LANE: Q. Okay. But is there any indication on this to indicate the department head paid for it -- approved it, rather?
A.

Q. And I assume that they would indicate, for example, that, "Yes, I got the product, and it's what I ordered. " Would that be fair?
A.

Yes. "Not broken or defective," correct? And then it goes to purchasing. Why does it

Q. Q.

A. Yes. go to purchasing, if you know? A. I think it probably would go to purchasing first because they would have to match the PO and the requisition order.

9 don't know. You've never seen it.
10 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

Q.

Okay. So let's assume it goes to purchasing

first. They then make sure that there is a PO issued for the item, correct? Is that fair? A. Yes.

The stamp that would be there isn't there, so

I can't tell you that. Q. Can you explain, assuming that it's a City of Maricopa invoice, why the stamp isn't there? A. No, I can't. Q. Okay. MR. LANE: 4, please. (Exhibit No.4 was marked.) (The witness and Mr. Doyle confer off the record.) Page 21

Q.

And that the invoice matches the PO they

issued as far as amount and items? A. Yes.

Q.
fair?

Then the department would then say, "Yes,

I got them in the condition" or whatever (sic); is that A. Yes.

Q.

And those are required before you cut a check? Page 19

1 2 3 4 5 6 7

A. Yes.

1 2

BY MR. LANE: Q. Look at number 4. Have you ever seen that A. I don't recall. Q. I notice .. forget the handwritten thing -- it says, "Paid, Check No. 6406." Do you know whether that's a City of Maricopa check? A. I can't tell you that that's a City check, but it looks -- the stamp looks familiar. Q. Okay. And it says "Budget Code" with the date of "9/28/07" under the word "Paid."
A.

Q.

Okay. In 2007, did the City order some

promotional items for a company known as Midwest Premiums & Promotions? Yes or no, if you recall? A. I do not recall. (Exhibit No.3 was marked.) LANE: Q. Look at Exhibit 3. Can you tell me what that is? A. Appears to be an invoice from Midwest Premiums
& Promotions.

3 document before, sir?
4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11

8 BYMR
9 10 11 12

12
13 14 15 16 17

Yes.

13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

Q. Does it indicate on there whether or not the
City paid it? A. No. There's no indication that I see on here. Q. Is it your contention that the City paid for this invoice? A. I don't know if the City paid for this invoice or not. Q. Does it contain the stamp that would be on a City invoice, sir? A. That may be the City's stamp. Q. It says "Paid." A. Yes, but the rest of it's illegible, so I don't know if it's the City's or not.

Q. Is that a budget code or just a date? A. That's just a date. That would be the date of the check. Q. Does this invoice contain the stamp that we previously talked about?
A.

18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25

It does not.

Q. And it would be fair to say that at least from this invoice, there's no indication that the department head signed off on it, right? A. It's not indicated here. Q. There's no indication that the purchasing department signed off on it? A. No.

OTTMAR

& ASSOCIATES

602-485-1488

Roger
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Glenn

Kolman
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11/15/2010
Page 24

7

Page 22 Q. Do you know whether or not the City has any document that indicates that the purchasing department A. I do not know that. Q. Would you like to tell me why -- let me back up. During that time, who was the one that made the final decision of whether to cut the check before you paid anybody? This is '07. A. Would've been '07, looks like it would've been September -- that would have been, probably, Corrine Cornn, Q. And that person worked for you as finance director? A. Yes. Q. But you would agree that this doesn't contain any departmental approvals on this? A. I would agree. Q. Did you tell any police officer that Marty McDonald approved the payment of this invoice, sir? A. I did not. Q. And so if they, in their report, said that you told them Marty McDonald approved this payment, they would be in error? Page 23
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14

head approved this? You said you thought it was Corrine Cornn. Is there anybody else that you can think of if it wasn't you? A. In 2007 -- I'm trying to remember who was working there at the time. It is possible at this time in 2007 that Rebecca Chitwood. Q. Okay. But definitely not you? A. Well, I don't see my autograph on here, so ... MR. DOYLE: No, no, not you who told the police. THE WITNESS: Oh, I'm sorry. BY MR. LANE: Q. You didn't tell the police about this invoice?
A.

3 approved the payment of this particular invoice?
4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14

7 8 9 10 11 12

13
14

No.

15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

Q. And you don't know whether or not you approved the payment indicated there? A. No, I do not see my signature on it. Q. Did Corrine Cornn have authority to issue checks? A. At this time, when I was serving as the interim city manager, Corrine had taken over several of my duties. Q. Is that one of the duties she took over? A. Yes. (Exhibit No.5 was marked.) Page 25 BY MR. LANE: Q. This is Exhibit No.5. that check before? A. I don't recall seeing this check before. Q. Are you saying you don't recall, or you didn't A. I'm saying I don't recall having seen this check before. Q. You're aware that Marty McDonald claims to have given that check to you? A. I am aware of that. Q. And it's made out to Midwest Premiums & Promotions? A. Yes. Q. And that was allegedly to pay for items purchased from Midwest Premiums & Promotions, correct, for the City? MR. DOYLE: Object to the form. A. Repeat the question. BY MR. LANE: Q. Well, it's my understanding that some items for Founder's Day were ordered from Midwest Premiums & Promotions. Is that your understanding in 2007, that you bought stuff from them for Founder's Day?
L_

MR. DOYLE: Object to the form of the question. It's misleading. Clair, you know that that report says Corrine Cornn, not Roger Kolman. Actually, there's no name in it at all. MR. LANE: That's my point. BY MR. LANE: Q. Do you know whether or not-MR. DOYLE: So don't be construing something that's improper. BY MR. LANE: Q. Let me rephrase it. Do you know whether or not Corrine Cornn told the detective that Marty McDonald approved this? A. I don't know that either. Q. And it would be either you or Corrine would be people that knew that, right, at this time? MR. DOYLE: Object to the form. BY MR. LANE: Q. Go ahead. MR. DOYLE: If you know who could know that. A. I -- repeat the question, again, please. BY MR. LANE: Q. Who would be the person that would know in the department at this time whether or not the department
______________________ ~

1 2 3 4 5

Have you ever seen

6 see it?
7 8

9
10 11 12 13

14 15
16 17 18 19 20

15
16 17 18 19

20
21 22 23 24 25

21
22 23 24
__

25

A. I don't -- I guess I don't know -- I don't

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OTTMAR

& ASSOCIATES

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Roger
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Glenn

Kolman
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11/15/2010
Page 28

8

Page 26 know ... Q. Let me back up. What is your knowledge of things that were purchased for Founder's Day 2007 from Midwest Premiums & Promotions? Do you have any knowledge of anything purchased from them, sir? A. I have no specific knowledge of anything that Q. Okay. But you are saying that you don't think you've ever seen this check before? A. Yes, I don't recall having seen this check before.
Q.

anymore, electronically, is it not? A. Depending on what it is, but they actually print them out. MR. LANE: Counsel, any problem with getting me a copy of 484? MR. DOYLE: No. Just send me an e-mail, tell me what you want.
MR. LANE:

8 we really purchased.
9 10 11 12 13 14

a BY
9 10 11 12

Q. Now, you're also aware there was another incident involving a purchase from BSN, are you not, for mini goals and fencing? You're aware of that issue, are you not?
A.

Okay. (Exhibit No.6 was marked.)

13 14

Yes. (Exhibit NO.7 was marked.)

15 BY MR. LANE: 16
17 18 19

15 BY MR. LANE:
16

Q. Look at number 6, please. What does that appear to be to you? A. Looks like it's an invoice from Midwest Premiums & Promotions. Q. Does it contain the stamp on it that we previously talked about? A. Yes, it does. Q. And it appears to contain initials where it says "Department"? A. Yes. Page 27 Q. Have you ever seen this invoice before? A. I may have seen this one when the detective interviewed me. Q. Okay. Do you know who -- or why the purchasing department did not initial this form? A. I do not know why they did not enter -- did not initial this form. Q. And it doesn't appear that finance initialed A. That is true. Q. But it does contain a PO number 484, does it A. Yes, that is written down here. Q. Does that appear to be a correct City of
A.

Q. Let me show you what we've marked as 6 -- or, A. I can't say that I have ever seen this document before. Q. Is BSN a vendor that the City deals with? A. I can't tell you whether they are or are not. Q. Now, as I understand it, sometimes a department head will get a quotation from a vendor first, is that fair, before they even ask for a PO? A. Yes, sometimes. Page 29 Q. Okay. And does this look like a typical bid you might get or a quote from a vendor? A. Yes. Q. Okay. No reason to believe it's not a quote from BSN? A. It says "Quotation" right here, so ... Q. Okay. (Exhibit No.8 was marked.) Q. Okay. Look at number 8, ask if you've ever seen that document before. (sic) A. No. Q. Okay. Assuming that a purchase order had been issued as a request from the department head, what is purchase order if it changed or got -- decided not to
A.

17 excuse me, 7. Have you ever seen that document before?
18 19

20
21 22 23 24

20 21
22 23 24

25

25

1 2 3 4 5

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

6
7 8

9 this form? 10
11

9 BY MR. LANE:
10 11 12 13 14

12 not?
13

14

15 Maricopa PO number for that date? 16

15 the procedure during this time frame to cancel that
16

I couldn't tell you if that's the right

17 sequence or not. 18

17 order it? 18
19

Q. Does the City of Maricopa keep copies of its A. Yes. Q. Can we get a copy of PO number 484? Is that available? A. We can probably pull it up electronically, if it's not in -Q. That would be fine. That's how they're kept

January of '08. Now, repeat the question,

19 old POs? 20 21
22 23 24

please. Q. Assume that a purchase order had been previously issued for some items, and now -- and it said, "Please cancel Purchase Order 11541," what is the procedure in your department for cancelling that, ifit gets cancelled? A. So if we are cancelling a purchase order, they

20
21 22 23 24

25

25

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Glenn

Kolman

11/15/2010
Page 32

9

Page 30
1 would have contacted the vendor, assuming that it had 2 been sent to the vendor -- the PO had been sent to the 3 vendor already. They would have contacted the vendor 4 and told them to cancel the order, and they would have 5 basically just written "Cancelled" across the top of it
6 7 B 9

1 be the department that's ordering this stuff? 2 3

A. No, it is not.

Q.

Is it initialed or signed by somebody from

4 finance? 5 6
7 8

A. No, it is not.

and then cleared it out of the system or clicked on "Cancelled" in the system.

Q.

Would you agree that if Purchase Order] ] 54]

was cancelled, that this invoice should not have been paid, sir? MR. DOYLE: Form. A. So ask it again. BY MR. LANE:

Q.

Okay. And I assume there's a checks and

balance so that if the invoice actually came in from a purchase order? A. It should, yes.

9 10
11

10 vendor, that would somehow be caught as a cancelled
11

12 13

12
13

Q.

Based upon your procedures in place from your

Q.

Should. Do you know whether it was in this

finance director, if, in fact, Purchase Order 11541 was

14 instance? 15 16 17 9. 18

14 cancelled, isn't it true that your checks and balances 15 should have caught that coming in? 16

A. I do not know that.

Q.

Let me show you the next exhibit. It will be (Exhibit No.9 was marked.)

A. Yes. If the system -- if the invoice -- or

17 purchase order was cancelled in the system, then, yes, 18 it should have caught that. 19

19 BY MR. LANE: 20

Q.

And part of your checks and balance system

Q.

And on that last exhibit, Corrine Wilcox-Corrin

20 established with your finance director to prevent that 21 was to require the purchasing department to confirm 22 it's a valid PO at the time an invoice is received; 23 would you agree with that? 24 25

21 was one of the people working in finance? 22 23

A. Yes.

Q.

And that appears to be a memo from the -- from

24 Marty McDonald to her indicating the department needed 25 to cancel that purchase order?

A. Yes.

Q.

And would you agree that there's no initials Page 33

Page 31
1 2
3

A. Yes.

1

by purchasing on this form? A. Yes.

Q.

Look at number 9 real quick. Have you ever

2
3

seen number 9? A. I do not recall having seen number 9.

Q.

Would you also agree that part of your checks

4
5 6

4 and balances is to make sure the department head signs 5 offto indicate whatever was ordered was received in
6

Q.

Okay. And it indicates -- this appears to be,

what, an invoice from BSN Sports? A. Yes, it indicates it's an invoice.

the proper condition, et cetera; agree?
A.

7 8

7 8
9

Yes. And would you agree that that is not

Q.

Okay. For the two items that were on the

Q.

9 previous quote we just looked at? 10 11

initialed? A. Yes.

A. Yes, that appears to be.

10
11

Q.

Okay. And it refers to Purchase Order 11541

Q.

Would you also agree that somebody from

12 handwritten at the bottom, does it not?
13

12 finance department would be in the loop, for lack of a 13 better description, and they should have signed off on 14 this? 15

A. Yes, and it's up here at the top also.

14

Q.

Okay. Would you agree that the memo dated

15 January l Oth was supposed to cancel that purchase 16 order, sir? 17 18

A. Well, the finance department, part of it,

16 ceased when we started doing the purchase orders, 17 because they signed upfront saying that there was 18 budgetary dollars available. 19

A. Yes.

Q.
A.

Now, there's also the stamp on the front of Yes, there is. Is that stamped area initialed by the

19 number 9, is there not? 20 21

Q.

But that gets caught by purchasing on a

20 purchase order? 21 22

Q.

A. Depends on what it was.

22 purchasing department? 23 24

Q.

Okay. But something like this, we're talking

A. No, it is not.

23 about 300 feet of green fencing and some SmartPole 24 ground sockets, right? 25

Q.

Is it initialed or signed by and dated by

25 anybody in the department, which I would assume would

A. Yes.

OTTMAR

& ASSOCIATES

602-485-1488

Roger
1

Glenn

Kolman
1 2

11/15/2010
A.

10
Page 36

Page 34

Q.

That would be something you'd probably get a

That's fair. And who else besides Corrine could have

2 request from a department to order for you, not 3 supplies? 4
5

Q.

3 approved the issuance of this check without the boxes 4 being initialed?
5

A. Yes.

Q.

SO this would be something that the procedure

A. Well, I think, in theory, Rebecca Chitwood

6 should be followed? 7 8
9

6 could have, but -7 8
9

A. Which part of the procedure?

Q. Q.

In practicality, that wasn't -Would it be fair to say that you and Corrine

Q.

Well, getting purchasing to acknowledge it,

A. -- in practicality, probably not.

getting purchasing to confirm it's a valid PO, correct? A. Yes.

10
11

10 were probably the only two on any normal basis that
11

Q.

And I assume since finance is going to cut the

approved checks to be written? A. Yes.

12 check, they would already have knowledge of whether 13 there's money in the budget for that item? 14 A.

12 13

Q.

Okay. And you would agree that PO 11541

Yeah. Well, they check upfront to make sure Right. There wouldn't be a PO number ifthere

14 should have been cancelled but wasn't? 15

15 that there's money in the budget. 16

A. It should have been cancelled based upon this

Q.

16 memorandum from Marty to Corrine. 17

17 was no money upfront; is that fair? 18 19

Q.

And would you say that paying it was, MR. DOYLE: Form.

A. That is fair.

18 therefore, a mistake? 19 20 BYMRLANE: 21 22

Q.

Or you'd have to go back to council to take

20 some contingency funds or something; is that fair? 21 22

A. Or move money internally.

Q.

Or error, whatever word you want to use. MR. DOYLE: Form. Assumes it was paid.

Q.

But you would agree that this does not contain

23 the purchasing or department signatures on it? 24 25

23 BY MR. LANE: 24 25

A. I would agree.

Q.

Let me back up. It's my understanding that one of the Page 37

Q.

Do you know who approved this payment, sir? Page 35

1 2
3

A. I do not.

1 contentions in this case is that the City paid for 2 these fencing and sockets.
3

Q. Q.

And you were the finance director at the time? And which people in finance could approve a

A. Yes.

MR. DOYLE: Hang on. Which case are you MR.LANE: This case.

4

4 talking about? 5 6
7

5 check other than you for something like this? 6
7

A. Corrine could and so could Rebecca Chitwood.

MR DOYLE: Okay. MR LANE: You put it in your disclosure MRDOYLE: Well, you know, none of these

Q.

And I understand that it was Corrine that got

8 the memo to cancel this PO, correct?
9

8 statement, Counsel. 9 10 questions have anything to do with this case. I'm
11

A. That appears to be who it's directed to.

10

Q.

SO as far as you know today, Rebecca would

11 have been the only one to -- that had the authority to 12 cut a check for this invoice? 13 14

happy to let you ask him, but it has nothing to do with MR. LANE: Okay. I'm just going to get MR. DOYLE: No, you're not. In fact,

12 this case. 13 14 his side of the story. 15 16 what you're doing is asking him questions about 17 invoices and POs that he doesn't know anything about, 18 that he's never seen, there's no foundation for and 19 don't have any relevance at all to the claim that 20 Mr. McDonald's made against the City, which arise out 21 of the prosecution relating to the FedEx account in '07 22 and '08. So if you want to ask about those questions, 23 have at it. 24

MR. DOYLE: Form. A. Okay. Repeat.

15 BY MR. LANE: 16

Q.

Okay. I assume as finance director, you could

17 have authorized the issuance of a check. You're the 18 boss. Is that fair? 19 20

A. Q.

That is fair. And your statement is Corrine Wilcox-Cornn

21 also had that authority in January of'08? 22 23

A. Yes.

Q.

And that's because though Kevin had been

24 hired, he wasn't here yet, so you're wearing both hats 25 at that time. Is that a fair characterization?

MR LANE: Okay. I'm going to ask him

25 about this one.

OTTMAR

& ASSOCIATES

602-485-1488

Roger
1 BY rvrR. LANE: 2

Glenn

Kolman
1

11/15/2010

11
Page 40

Page 38 that Marty McDonald had.

Q.

Do you know whether or not the City paid this

2

Q.

And you were aware that Marty McDonald had his

3 invoice? 4

3 own account, weren't you? 4 5

A. It appears that the City's normal stamp is

A. I guess.

5 there, marked "Paid."
5 7 8 9

Q.
right?

Well, from 2005, you were made aware that he

Q.

Okay. Now, at some point in December '07, my

6 had his own account and there was some problem with it,
7 8 9

understanding is your department got a call again from FedEx similar to the -- or it was a call about a collection from FedEx. Do you recall that? A. Yes.

A. Like I said, I'm vague on the whole issue, but I suppose I knew that.

10
11

10
11

Q.

And you also knew that he participated in the

Q.

And do you remember who took that call?

Fantasy Football operation, did you not? A. Yes, I did.

12

A. I don't know who took the call, but I know

12 13

13 Corrine Wilcox-Comn is the one that told me about it. 14

Q.

And you also knew that he sometimes shipped

Q.

And do you remember what she said to you when

14 things as part of his Fantasy Football involvement? 15 16

15 she came into your office about this call? 16

A. I don't know that.

A. She said that the City had received a phone

Q.

You never saw him ship anything from City

17 call from Federal Express indicating that we were 18 behind on our payments. 19 20 21 22

17 Hall? IB 19

A. I never saw him ship anything.

Q. Q.

And what did you do at that time? And, specifically, what did you ask her to do?

Q.

What did Mr. Evans ask you to do after your

A. I asked Corrine to look into the matter. A. I asked her to find out the details of it,

20 phone call? 21

A. Mr. Evans asked me to report the incident to

22 the police chief to see what he had to say about it. 23 24

23 what are they really talking about, get them to fax 24 over the statement saying that we're behind. 25

Q.

And did you report it to the police chief?

A. I went over to report it to the chief, but he Page 41

Q.

At some point it's your understanding she got Page 39

25 was not there, so I reported it to the assistant chief.

1 those statements? 2 3

1 2 3 4

Q. Q.

And who was that? Did he tell you what they were going to do?

A. Yes.

A. Kirk Fitch. A. Mr. Fitch indicated that he didn't think there office.

Q.

Did you later determine that those statements

4 were not the City of Maricopa statements? 5
5 7

A. Corrine indicated to me that they were not the same account number.

5 was anything to do about it, and so I returned to my
6

Q.

Did you make any determination whether or not

7
8

Q. A. Q.

SO after Checking with Mr. Fitch -- and he's

8 the City had paid any of those accounts? 9

part of the Maricopa Police Department? Yes, he was the assistant chief Did he tell you he didn't think there was a

A. I asked Corrine to go look at the anything on that account number.

9 10
11

10 Federal Express files to see if we had ever paid
11

crime, no problem? I mean, tell me how his attitude --

12 13 14

Q. Q.

And what did she report to you at that time? Okay. What happened next in your involvement

12 what did he say to you? As clear as I can, what 13 Mr. Fitch said. (sic) 14

A. She reported to me that we had not.

A. I believe what he said was that he didn't

15 in that FedEx issue? 16

15 think there was anything there for them to investigate. 16 17 1B

A. Once we had determined that it was not the

Q.

So, basically, there's no crime here, correct? MR. DOYLE: Object to the form.

17 City's account, I called the incoming city manager and 18 gave them a heads-up about the issue. 19

A. I don't know that.

Q.

Exactly if you can remember what you told him,

19 BYMR.LANE: 20 21

20 what did you tell him? 21

Q.

Okay. What did you do then? Well, let me ask you. Did you report

A. I just told him that there was an invoice --

22 or we had received an indication -- or received a phone 23 call from Federal Express saying that we were behind on 24 payment to a -- on our bill, and that when we looked 25 into it, it was actually an invoice from an account

22 that, what Mr. Fitch said, to Mr. Evans? 23 A.

No, I don't think so, because by the time

24 I got back to my office, the chief of police was on the 25 phone, and he wanted to run this by his affiliate in

OTTMAR

& ASSOCIATES

602-485-1488

Roger
1 Phoenix to see what they thought about it. 2

Glenn

Kolman

11/15/2010

12
Page 44

Page 42
1 interviewed by someone from the Phoenix Police 2 Department. 3

Q. And the chief, at that time, I believe, was A. Patrick Melvin. Q. SO it was Patrick Melvin's idea to, quote, run A. Yes. Q. And after that point, I believe there was a Detective Quaas that came into the scene. Do you A. I heard it from these guys. I never met Q. SO, evidently, Chief Patrick contacts, A. You'd have to ask Patrick about that. Q. SOyou don't even know what department he A. No. Q. And you had no contact whatsoever with a A. No. Q. Never talked to him? A. No. Q. SO if other people claim that you talked to Page 43

3 Patrick Melvin? 4 5

Q. Okay. Did you give any instructions at all to

4 Ms. Comn of what she should do or not do in talking to 5 the detective?
6

6 it by somebody in Phoenix?
7 8 9

A. I told her to cooperate fully, answer any that they may request. Q. Did you ever tell her which documents to give A. No. I had no idea what they were looking for. Q. SO you had nothing to do with the A. (Nodding head.) MR. DOYLE: Say your answer out loud. A. Yes. THE WlTNESS: I'm sorry. I'm used to MR. DOYLE: That's all right. Q. And as far as you know, it was either

7 questions they had, and provide them with documents
8

9

10 remember that name? 11 12 Mr. Quaas. 13 14 I guess, City of Phoenix; is that fair? 15 16

10 them? 11 12

13 investigation at all, basically? 14 15 16 17 18 nodding. 19 20 BY MR. LANE: 21 22 Detective •• somebody from the police department •• 23 could have been the chief or Corrine .. that actually 24 talked to Quaas, as far as you know? 25

17 contacted? 18 19

20 Detective Quaas? 21 22 23 24

25 Quaas, they would be mistaken?

A. As far as I know. Page 45 Q. Let me just back up. There's a floating issue around here

1 2

A. They would be mistaken. Q. Are you saying you don't remember talking to A. You know what, I can't say 100 percent where

1 2

3 him or you flat did not talk to Quaas? 4 5 I've never met anybody, but I do not recall ever having 6 met or discussed anything with Detective Quaas, 7
8

3 regarding Mr. McDonald forging documents. Are you 4 aware of whether or not the City got any mini goals in 5 in January, February of '08, one way or the other?
6

A. I'm not aware of anything that the parks and Q. Now, at some point in time, I believe you were

Q. I can assume that if you met him, it would be a cursory, "Hi, how are you?" something like that,

7 rec department may have.
8

9 nothing of substance with respect to this 10 investigation? 11

9 made aware that there was, in fact, an investigation 10 involving the FedEx bills.
11

A. Like I said, I can't say that I've ever met Q. I just want to know whether you're saying you

A. Yes. Q. And tell me what your personal knowledge was of that investigation, just from what you've heard or A. Okay. So please repeat. Q. Well, you understood there was some A. Yes. Q. Involving Marty McDonald, right? A. Yes. Q. And involving FedEx? A. Yes. Q. And what was your understanding of what the MR. DOYLE: If you know.

12 the guy, so ... 13 14 never met him at all or you've never met him and talked 15 about this at all. I understand you might have met him 16 in passing. I understand that. Like you meet a lot of 17 people. 18 19

12
13

14 what you -- however you learned it. 15 16

17 investigation going on? 18 19 20 21 22 23

A. I suppose that's possible. Q. But it's your statement that, to your

20 knowledge, you never talked to him about the FedEx case 21 at all? 22 23 24

A. Absolutely. Q. Do you know who he did talk to? A. I'm assuming, of course, that he talked to the

24 problem was? Why were they investigating Marty? 25

25 chief of police, but I know that Ms. Comn was

OTTMAR

& ASSOCIATES

602-485-1488

Roger
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

Glenn

Kolman
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

11/15/2010
Q. The last sentence. All right. I got it.

13
Page 48

Page 46 BYMR. LANE: Q. If you know. A. I don't know. Q. And would it be fair to say that you had already been advised, at least yourself, by a Maricopa detective or officer that there was nothing they could find here that was wrong? A. The assistant chief told me, based on a conversation I had with him, that he didn't think there was anything to investigate. Q. And it was the chief that called you and said he wanted to contact another department to take it further? A. Yes. Q. And, of course, you would not know what the chief had as far as his information that you didn't have? A. No. I'm assuming that the assistant chief would have called the chief and that's how he knew to call me. (Exhibit No. 10 was marked.) BYMR.LANE: Q. At some point in time, were you made aware that there was, in fact, the investigation going on, and Pinal County Attorney's Office was involved in it? Page 47
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

Just tell me which parts of it.
A.

That first sentence is true.

Q. Which first sentence? A. About Marty helping us out with FedEx issues. Q. All right.
A.

In the first sentence of the third paragraph,

I did not receive a call from F edEx. It was someone on staff. Q. Okay. What else about that third paragraph?
A.

10
11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

The discussion about the shipping of World

Championship Fantasy Football, I don't recall that. Q. You don't recall it or you didn't make it? Is that an inaccurate statement or you don't recall that particular thing?
A. I don't recall that particular discussion.

Q. Okay.
A.

As is the discussion about his personal

account becoming linked to the City of Maricopa. It's all very vague to me. Q. Are you saying you just don't remember now, or it's just a vague memory?
A.

It's all very vague.

Q. Second sentence, do you agree with that? The second sentence of that paragraph _. or the Page 49 following -- or the second sentence on page 2, "He attempted to resolve this matter in November of2005." Do you remember that? A. I don't recall how the whole matter was -_ as I said earlier, I don't recall how the matter was resolved. Q. All right.
A.

A.

Yes. MR. LANE: What number is that? THE COURT REPORTER: 10.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

Q. Okay. Look at the next exhibit.

BY MR. LANE: Q. Look at 10 and ask you if you recognize that document. (sic)
A.

This appears to be the letter to the charging

I suppose that's possible.

(sic) attorney in Pinal County that Marty drafted for Q. And I believe you did not sign this letter?
A.

9 10
11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

Q. Next paragraph. A. I didn't contact Marty immediately. I did call him the next day, I believe. Q. Okay. So the word "immediately" you're objecting to. Okay. Go ahead. A. I have no understanding of whether Marty ever received payment or not. Q. Okay. Keep going. A. And I have no idea whether that account's been linked or unlinked or whatever it would be through FedEx or not. Q. Okay. A. The last sentence is true. Q. Okay. A. I have no idea on that last sentence of paragraph whatever -- the last full paragraph. Q. The last sentence?

10 my signature.

ai
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

I did not sign this letter.

Q. Is there anything in the letter you disagreed with? A. In the first paragraph, it talks about advising us on his first day of employment that he had set up his personal account. I have no knowledge of that. Q. Okay. MR. DOYLE: Go through it line by line. BY MR. LANE: Q. Paragraph or line, just tell me what you disagree with in this letter. A. On the last sentence of the second paragraph, I have no knowledge of that.

25

OTTMAR

& ASSOCIATES

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Roger
1

Glenn

Kolman
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

11/15/2010
Q. Okay. And the next sentence says, "It is very

14
Page 52

Page 50 A. Yeah, as to whether it was a FedEx mistake or Q. Well, the first paragraph -- first sentence says, "IfI thought he was attempting any kind of fraudulent activity," blah, blah, blah, "I would have dealt with the situation quite differently." Do you agree with that statement? A. Yes. Q. Okay. And "This is not the case here," you're saying, because you didn't know? A. I'm saying that the City of Maricopa was not defrauded. Q. Okay. MR. DOYLE: Wait, wait. Let's back up for a second. Excuse me. Let me object to the form of the question. The question which was, "Are you saying you didn't know?" Object to the form of the question. Mr. Kolman didn't write this letter. All right. So it's an improper question. The question is: "That is not the case here," do you agree with that or not? is the question. You didn't write the letter. Go ahead. THE WITNESS: Well, now, you both confused me. Page 51
1 2 3 4 5

2 not.
3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13

possible that FedEx made an internal mistake in linking his personal account," blah, blah, blah. Are you saying you didn't make that statement or you didn't write this? Do you agree with that statement that it's possible FedEx made an internal mistake? A. I don't know whether FedEx made a mistake or not. Q. Okay. The very last sentence, do you agree with that statement? MR. DOYLE: Which? Where? MR. LANE: Right above "Sincerely." MR. DOYLE: No. There's a second half to that last sentence of the last full paragraph. MR. LANE: Okay. I'm assuming you're MR. DOYLE: "To the best of my knowledge Mr. McDonald did make multiple attempts to rectify the situation." BY MR. LANE: Q. Okay. And you're saying you don't know what attempts he made? A. I don't know that at all. Q. That's a fair comment. Thank you. Is it a fair statement in the very last Page 53 sentence? A. As it pertains to the City of Maricopa, yes. Q. And do you know whether or not in this FedEx case the City of Maricopa desired prosecution? A. I don't know that at all. Q. Are you aware of anybody at the City of Maricopa that desired prosecution? Obviously, you correct, sir? A. Well, 1-Q. From what you knew only.
A.

9
10 11 12 13 14 15

14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21

16 saying=17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

22
23 24 25

25

BY MR. LANE: Q. Okay. With respect to you saying you didn't write this, "This is not the case here," talking about him committing fraud, did you feel that was a correct statement even if you didn't author it? A. No. What I said -- what -- now I'm really confused. Q. Okay. A. Start again. Q. Let me back up and try to clarify it. You said the first thing you agreed, though you didn't write it, that "IfI thought Marty was attempting any type of fraudulent activity that would have placed the City of Maricopa in financial risk or cause the City to be an injured party, I would have dealt with the situation quite differently." Do you agree with that statement whether you wrote it or not? A. That is true. Q. Then the next one says, "That is not the case here," as far as you knew at the time? A. So the question is: Was the City at risk for fraud from this? Q. Correct. A. That is true.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7

6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

8 didn't desire prosecution by that one statement,
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

Right. As far as the City was concerned,

yeah, absolutely. Q. From you only, you didn't desire prosecution. Do you agree with that statement, that last sentence? A. Okay. So ... Q. You personally, Roger Kolman, as of the date of this letter, didn't desire Marty to be prosecuted?
A.

As far as the City was concerned, there was

nothing -- the City hadn't been defrauded, so I would have no reason to. Q. Do you know if anybody else -- whether it be counsel, mayor, police chief -- from the City of Maricopa that did desire prosecution?
A.

25

I don'! know anybody at the City of Maricopa

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& ASSOCIATES

602-485-1488

Roger
1 2 3 4

Glenn

Kolman
1 2 3 4 5

11/15/2010

15
Page 56

Page 54 that desired prosecution. Q. Did anybody ever tell you they desired prosecution? A. No. (Exhibit No. 11 was marked.) BY MR. LANE: Q. Look at number 11, a letter dated June 25th, 2008. Did you write that letter? A. Yes. Q. Okay. You actually wrote this letter, or did Marty draft it for you? A. No. I took the letter that Marty drafted and added some things, exchanged it back and forth with the city manager and the city attorney. Q. Okay. And here it says, in paragraph 3, you were experiencing billing problems and service issues with FedEx; is that fair? A. Yes. Q. What were you talking about? A. We were having problems, Ithink --like I said, this was a long time ago -- but Ithink it was Q. It also says in paragraph 4 you did have some vague recollection oflate '05 or early 2006 that there was a contact from FedEx? Page 55
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

whose fault it was. Q. Last paragraph. "The unfortunate part of my professional career." Do you see that sentence? A. Yes. Q. What acts of fraud have you had to be involved A. Thefts.

s
6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

6 with that you're talking about there?
7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14

Q. Q.
there--

From what? Which agencies? What governments?

A. From governmental agencies. A. Weston County, Wyoming; the city of Casper, Q. Okay. MR. DOYLE: Where were you? (Laughter.) BY MR. LANE: Q. City employees sometimes steal stuff, 1assume? A. Yes. Q. And that's part of the job, that you have to deal with that issue when it comes up?
A.

15
16 17 18 19

20
21

20
21 22 23 24
25

22 having them pick up things. 23
24 25

Yes.

Q. Okay. Next one, "1 do not believe the City of Maricopa was purposefully injured." What did you mean by that, sir? Page 57
A.

A.

Yes.

1 2

Just trying to say that the City was not

Q. But you had a vague memory of it? A. Yes. Q. The last sentence ofthe second page, it was your understanding that Mr. McDonald had resolved the conflict with FedEx?
A.

injured by anything that Marty did. Q. Well, you said "purposefully injured." That indicates that they were injured, does it not, sir? MR. DOYLE: Form. A. I don't think that indicates that at all. BY MR. LANE: Q. Okay. So was it your belief they were injured
at

3
4 5 6 7

Yeah, because we never were contacted by FedEx

again. Q. Did you work with Marty on drafting this letter, or was this just your own after looking at his draft?
A.

8
9 10 11

all?
A.

No, 1 don't think the City was injured at all.

Q. Okay. Now, you're aware that approximately May 5th of2009, Mr. McDonald was put on administrative leave? Are you aware of that? A. I'm sorry. Say it again. Q. Approximately May 5th of2009, Mr. McDonald was placed on administrative leave? A. I don't know the date. Q. Assume that's the date. Okay? A. Okay. Q. What was your position with the City of Maricopa at that time? A. In May of2009, would have been assistant city manager. Q. And who was the city manager? A. Kevin Evans.

No, we exchanged it back and forth.

12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2S

Q. Okay. And go back to page 1, paragraph 4, second sentence. "It was discovered that the account that was overdue was Mr. McDonald's personal FedEx account that was somehow linked to the City's account." Would you agree with that statement?
A.

Yeah.

Q. And, therefore, Marty had done nothing wrong? A. I'm sorry. Repeat that. Q. And Marty had done nothing wrong; it was FedEx's problem linking it?
A.

20
21 22 23 24

I don't have that understanding at all. I have no understanding of the issue as to

Q. What is your understanding?
A.

25

OTTMAR

& ASSOCIATES

602-485-1488

Roger
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

Glenn

Kolman
1 2 3 4

11/15/2010
A. I'm assuming that it would have been

16
Page 60

Page 58

Q. Do you know why he was put on administrative
leave? A . You know what, Kevin doesn't share that -didn't share any -- all that kind of stuff. Q. You're aware the City issued a press release not only Marty but several leave?

Corrine Cornn,

Q. Did you give her any instructions
A.

whatsoever

of what to do with respect to the investigation? The only thing I gave her to do was make sure gave them whatever documents that they

5
6 7 8

about that time regarding other employees A.

she cooperated, asked for. Q. Okay.

put on administrative

Maybe I did. Were you aware that according to the

Did anybody,

to your knowledge, were available?

ever

Q. Okay.

9 tell them what documents 10 11

City, they were put on administrative problems

leave because

A.

I had nothing

to do with the investigation,

so

11 there were budget

within the City? I guess. budget problems? all the time

I don't know. Q. And at that point in time, with respect to the
shipping matter in '05 -- or '07, what documents in the finance department regarding the were available FedEx file? A. What documents would have been in the file?

12
13 14 15

A.

That is vaguely

familiar,

12

Q. Was the City experiencing
A. now. Q. Okay. And sometimes

13 FedEx 14 15

Cities are facing budget problems

16

it's necessary

to lay

16
17

17 people 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

off; would that be fair? Unfortunately. was

Q. Well, let's start with this first. What files
A. I don't know specifically what files were

A.

18 were there? 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

Q. And you're also aware that Mr. McDonald
indicted A. Q. on approximately May 6th, the next day? If that was the date, I guess. And you weren't involved in any of that, so

there, but there would have been an AP file -- or should have been an AP file that would have contained all of the paid bills. Q. And I'm assuming that stands for accounts

you don't have any information between

with -- any connection between the two;

the two or lack of connection

payable? A. Yes. Page 61

would that be fair? Page 59

1 2

A.

Repeat that, please.

1 2

Q.

SO that would

have contained

the invoices,

Q. Well, you weren't in the loop, so to speak,
leave and/or being indicted, correct?

copies of checks paid -- it would be the history of FedEx for shipping? Not copies of checks paid, but the invoices. Okay. And where was that file located? in the finance

3 with Marty being put on administrative
4 5 6 7 8 9

3 paying 4 5 6 7

A. Q. A.

A. Yes.
Q. That was, what, Kevin Evans and others; is that fair? MR. DOYLE: Object to form. Are you

It would have been located

department.

8

Q. Do you know whether or not in that file there
about the 2005 FedEx problem? A. I do not know that. Okay. Do you know whether or not? the AP file was

asking about the administrative

leave or the

9 was any information

10 indictment? 11 12 13 14 15

10 Well, both. Well, they're different, and
11 12 13 14

MR. LANE: MR. DOYLE: the City has nothing BY MR. LANE: Q. Okay.

Q.
A. Q.

given to the detective

to do with --

I do not know that.
In fact, you don't know exactly what was given do you?

With respect involved

to the administrative in that loop, basically?

15 to the detective,

16 leave, you weren't 17 18 19 20 21

16
17

A. Q.

I do not. Yes, I do not know.
Now, you're aware that Rick Buss has testified him two documents in '05 regarding

A. No. Q. And you don't know anything about the
indictment A. Q. itself? I wasn't in that loop, I guess. Okay. Do you know which person for providing in the City

18 that you showed 19 20

FedEx? A. Mr. Fitzgibbons told me that, yes.

21
22 23 24 2S

Q. And you have no memory of getting those two
documents? A. Q. I do not recall that. He also said you told him you're going to put of that?

22 was responsible
23 24 25

the City of Phoenix documents they needed

Police Department

with whatever

during their investigation? as far as you know?

Who would that have been,

them in a file. You have no memory

OTTMAR

& ASSOCIATES

602-485-1488

Roger
1 2 3 4 5 6

Glenn

Kolman
1 2 3 4 5

11/15/2010
Q. Was that different from the stuff the City

17
Page 64

Page 62 A. I have no memory of that. Q. Did you have anything to do with the negotiation of the termination or severance agreement with Mr. McDonald and the City of Maricopa in May of '09? intended to buy? A. I have no idea what the City was intending to buy. Q. Well, you said that you were expecting $10,000 to buy things for the library. What things? A. I do not know. Q. Okay. And who initiated that investigation,

7
8 9

A. Q. A. Q. Q. Q.

Had anything to do ... With the severance agreement between I made some calculations. Some financial calculations? Sick leave, holiday, those numbers? Okay. Do you know why the approval of a

6 7 8

Marty McDonald and the City in May of '09?

9 so to speak, using my phrase? You were the one that 10 contacted Cara, right? 11 12

10 11 12
13

A. Yes. A. Yes.

A.

Yes.

Q. Were you the one in charge of, quote, checking

13 it out? 14 15 16 17

14

A.

Yes.

15 severance agreement was tabled by the city council? 16 17 18
19

Q. Who asked you to check it out? A. Mr. Evans. Q. And tell me exactly what you did. We know you A. Uh-huh.

A. I do not know that.

Q. Q.

Do you know what date it was tabled? Okay. Did you interview a Cara Cameron on

A. I do not know.

18 interviewed Cara, right? 19 20 21

20 June 19th of '09? 21 22 23 24 25

Q.

What else did you do?

A. Yes, if that's the right date.

A. I looked at all of the invoices and receipts

Q. Q.

The library director? Why did you interview her? Page 63

22 from the prior payments from the Pinal County Library 23 District to see where those accounts -- where those 24 checks went, whether we got them, deposited them, and 25 what we spent them on.

A. Yes. A. Because we had discovered that monies that were supposed to come to the City of Maricopa for use of the library had been diverted to the Friends of the Library. Q. You used the word "diverted." Did the funds go to the Friends of the Library? A. Yes. They were deposited by the Friends of the Library. Q. Now, it's my understanding that was a Pinal County account, where they had some funds to be used A. I don't know all that. Q. Were you aware that they were sending a check

Page 65
1

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

Q. A. Q. Q.

Did you refer that to the police department at No. Do you know if Mr. Evans -Do you know if Mr. Evans referred it to the

2 all? 3
4

5
G 7 8 9 10 11

A. Oh. No. No. City of Maricopa Police Department? A. I do not know if he did or not Q. Do you know if the City of Maricopa -MR. LANE: Oops. That's my bait trap chair. That's why I sat you in it, so you could fall

10 for libraries? 11 12

12 down. Somebody was supposed to come by and fix it last 13 week. There's a lifetime warranty on those things.
14

13 to the City that was to be given to the Friends of the 14 Library for use? 15 16

BY MR. LANE: Q. Do you know if anybody had an investigation other than you interviewing Corrine? A. Yeah, I do not know if anybody investigated Q. Did you find any wrongdoing? A. The wrongdoing was depositing the funds into

A. Were we -- I was not-Q. Why were you investigated? What was the A. The problem was that the City was expecting a check from the City -- or from the Pinal County Library

15
16

17 problem? 18
19

17

18 anything, other than what I looked at 19 20

20 District to pay for library materials, and it never 21 arrived. It was instead deposited by the Friends of 22 the Library. 23

21 the library account, and they referred it to the city 22 attorney. 23 24 25

Q. And it's my understanding that the Friends of A. Yes.

Q. That's Mr. Fitzgibbons? A. Yes. Q. It's my understanding that the check came to

24 the Library then bought library stuff? 25

OTTMAR

& ASSOCIATES

602-485-1488

Roger
1

Glenn

Kolman
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

11/15/2010

18
Page 68

Page 66 the City and was given to the Friends?
A.

investigation of some kind involving the Friends of the Library? A. I'm sorry, please repeat that. Q. Were you involved in any way with a later investigation of the Friends of the Library funds? A. Very briefly. Q. And tell me what your involvement was. A. Mr. Evans asked me to look at the activity Friends of the Library had. I looked at maybe like three things, saw an invoice that had the City of The City had paid that invoice, and they bundled it all up and gave it to Kevin Evans and told him, "You probably ought to ship that out to somebody else." Q. Now, this account -- you call it the PRL accounts. My understanding is that we have a Friends of the Library that's a separate group from the City; is that fair? A. That is true. Q. And they had established a separate account to buy things for the City's use -- for recreation, for libraries, things of that nature. Is that fair? A. I believe so. Q. And it's also my understanding that they got
~@

2
3 4 5 6 7 B 9

Yes.

Q. It was made out to the -- I think it was made out, if! recall, to the Maricopa County -- Maricopa Library. Do you recall that? A. I don't know who -- what entity it was exactly made out to.

Q. And the Friends then deposited the check?
A. Yes. Q. Were you aware if whether -- who made that decision to give it to them? A. The only knowledge I have is that Cara said that Marty directed her to do it. Q. And do you know whether or not the library A. The -- what library committee? Q. Well, it's my understanding they had kind of a -- well, the library was being built during this time; is that fair? A. Yes. Q. In fact, it was near completion, is my understanding? A. Yes. Q. And there was a committee of Cara and Marty and other people involved in the opening of the new
~~

9 account, whatever it's called, the PRL account that the
10 11

10
11

12
13 14

12 Maricopa's name on it, and looked it up on our system.
13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

15 committee also was aware that that was the procedure? 16 17
18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

25

1 library that would meet on a regular basis?
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13

1 private funds, for the most part, donated to that
2

A. I don't know that to be true, but it sounds possible. Q. It's my understanding that it was that committee that decided to give the money to the Friends of the Library when it came in? MR. DOYLE: Is that a question? BY MR. LANE: Q. Is that your understanding also? Is that what you discovered? MR. DOYLE: Object to the form. He already answered that question. BY MR. LANE: Q. You don'! know? MR. DOYLE: No, that's not -- don't misconstrue what he's saying, Clair. He's already testified the only knowledge he had is Cara told him Marty directed it to be done. MR. LANE: Okay. MR. DOYLE: Right, Roger? THE WITNESS: Yes. MR. DOYLE: Roger, don't let him misconstrue what you say. BY MR. LANE: Q. Were you involved in any way with a later

account?
A.

3
4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

Yes.

Q. And but for the Pinal County funds, no city funds were ever put in that account? A. I didn'tlook at it far enough to know, but I don't believe that ever happened. Q. And you said you found a couple invoices that appeared the City had paid? A. Yes. Q. Which invoices were they? A. I do not recall. Q. And you said one of them, I believe, was the BSN invoice that we talked about here? A. Maybe. I don't have my notes with me, so I can't ... Q. Okay. Do you know whether or not that memo to Corrine that cancelled the BSN invoice is in a City file? A. I do not know that. Q. And you were the finance director at the time? A. Yes. Q. Assuming that that memo was given to Corrine cancelling the PO, should a copy be in the City records somewhere, sir?

14
15 16 17 18 19

20
21

20
21 22 23 24 25

22
23 24 25

OTTMAR

& ASSOCIATES

602-485-1488

Roger
1 2 3
4 S

Glenn

Kolman
1 2
3

11/15/2010 Q. Q.
A.

19
Page 72

Page 70 A. Absolutely. Yeah. And you don't remember what invoice that was? You don't remember whether it was BSN or I do not recall that. And you're aware there was a second

Q.

And what file would it be in?

A. No.

A. They must have -- I'm assuming that they have a cancelled PO file where they keep voided things, and that's where it would be filed.

4 Midwest?

s
6

6

Q.

Would you get or provide us a copy of that

Q.

7 cancelled PO file?
8

7 investigation done by the Chandler Police Department 8 into some problems with the PRL account?
9

A. I can--

9 10
11

Q.

I mean, it's available, I would assume?

A. Yes, I'm aware of that.

A. I'm saying I'm assuming that that's what they would do with it.

10
11

Q.

And you had nothing to do with that?

A. I have met with the detective one time when he

12 13 14

Q. Q.

Do you know who Clint Sandy is? Did you ever use an Internet name like

12 asked me some questions, but that was the extent of my 13 involvement with that. 14 15 16

A. (Nodding head.)

Q.
A.

Were you and Marty ever friends? I thought so. Were you social friends, business friends?

15 Clint Sandy? 16 17

A. No.

Q.

Q.

Do you know anybody that uses that name,

17 How would you describe that? 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

18 Clint Sandy? 19 20

A. We did things socially on occasions.

A. No.

Q. Q. Q.
A.

Like what? Like what? Which games? Went to some Cardinals football games. Okay. Anything else? Page 73

Q.

As part of your --looking at the Friends of

A. Like football games. A. Went to football games.

21 the Library account, did you get the records for the 22 BSN inventory history to see what the City had 23 purchased from BSN? 24 25

A. I -- (Nodding head.) MR. LANE: Let me show you the next Page 71

Q.

1 exhibit. 2 3

1

A. We drank at the bar every once in a while

(Exhibit No. 12 was marked.) A. This appears to be a vendor invoice -- or

2 after council meetings. 3

Q.

Typical activity with the group, kind of as a

4 vendor history from the Caselle system for Collegiate 5 Pacific.
6

4 group --

s
6 7 8

A. Yes.

BY MR. LANE:

Q. Q.

-- you're saying, not just the two of you --- but people who get a drink after a council

7
8

Q.

Do you recall getting a copy of this from the

A. Yes.

City records? A. I don't recall specifically.

9 10 11

9 meeting, fair? 10 11 12 13 14

Q.

Okay. But this is an official City record?

A. Yeah.

A. It appears to have been generated by the (Exhibit No. 13 was marked.)

Q. Q.

Did you ever work out with him at the gym? Where?

12 Caselle system.
13

A. Yeah. A. We worked out at The Villages, which is the

14 BY MR. LANE: 15 16

Q.

What does that appear to be?

15 housing development Marty worked out at; and then I 16 can't recall ifhe ever worked out with me at the gym 17 that we joined, but it's possible. 18 19 20 21

A. This would appear to be a vendor history for

17 Midwest Premiums from the Caselle system. 18

Q.

Did you, in your review of the library funds,

Q. And what gym was that?

19 discover what you thought was a problem with the 20 Midwest account? 21

A. Q.

Extreme Fitness. There you go. Did you ever have a Fantasy Football

A. I can't tell you what vendor it was without or Q. Was there OTIe two -- was there one vendor

22 having my notes, but maybe. 23 24 or two that you found problems with? 25

22 league together? 23 24

A. No.

Q.

Did you ever participate in Fantasy Football

A.

I think it was just one invoice.

25 yourself?

OTTMAR

& ASSOCIATES

602-485-1488

Roger
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

Glenn

Kolman

11/15/2010
finance manager as being an unauthorized

20
Page 76

Page 74 A. Yeah. I don't think I actually participated, one season, ran the board for him
1 Maricopa 2 3

but I did the drawing in the draft. Q. So something

Maricopa A. Q. A.

FedEx account."

Okay. You were the finance manager No, I was the finance director. at the time? I'm assuming which would

Marty had put together

for the

4 5 6

City staff or people in Maricopa? A. Q. It was for people in Maricopa. Okay. Did you ever go to a daddy daycare camp

that that refers to the budget manager, have been Corrine Q. Okay. Cornn.

7 8 9

with him? A. Q. A. Q. Yes. Prior to the adoption Yes. It's my understanding his wife was expecting, plans? of your child?

So you didn't provide

any of the -any of that

you're saying that you didn't provide information? A. Q. A. Q. That's what I'm saying. That it all came from Corrine? Yes. Okay. I'm assuming

10
11 12

10 11 12 13

13 and you had some adoption
14 15 16 17 1B

that it came from Corrine. "Both FedEx You

A. Q. A.

Yes. Okay. Where was that held? Hospital, or one of their

14

The very last statement,

15 and the City of Maricopa 16 never made that statement?
17

desires prosecution."

At the Chandler buildings

ancillary Q. A. Q.

up there.

A. Q.

I never made that statement. And you're telling us today you don't know who

Do you know who Steve Dudley is? The name doesn't sound familiar. Okay. Do you know what records the City of received?

18

19
20 21 22 23 24

19 made that statement? 20
21 22 23 24

A. Q.

I do not know who made that statement. Okay. MR. LANE: Take a short break, Counsel,

Maricopa A.

has with respect to shipments

Do I know what records to shipments received --

the City of Maricopa

has with respect Q. A. Shipments Yes.

when you're ready? MR. DOYLE: Sure.

by the City. report that Page 75

25

There should be a receiving

25

Page 77
1 2

1 comes 2 3 4

in from the vendor. And are they kept in a file in City Hall? Yes. They're attached to the requisition and

(Recess

taken from 11 :23 a.m. to No. 15 was marked.)

Q. A. the PO. Q. A.

11 :33 a.m.)
(Exhibit BY MR. LANE: Q. I want you to look at what we've marked as Exhibit No. 15 and ask you if you've ever seen this document A. Q. before, sir. before.

3
4

5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12

Does that file have a particular Well, it's all attached is completed,

name?

5 6 7 8 9

to the invoice when

the process Q.

so it would be in an AP file. include the shipping

SO the AP file would

I have never seen this document Was it your understanding from the City of Phoenix of the FedEx?

information A. Yes.

of when this stuff arrived?

that a Detective was conducting the

10 Quaas

(Exhibit BY MR. LANE: Q.

No. 14 was marked.)

11 investigation 12

A.

As I stated earlier, I had no idea who from was.

13

We've marked before?

14. Have you ever seen that
so.

13 the City of Phoenix

14 document 15
16 17 18

14

Q.

One thing I just want to clarify, This e-mail to say, "I was told by the Director -- see that? of

A. Q.

I do not believe

15 attempts
16 17 18

Look at page 2, and there's a typewritten along there. Do you see that?

Finance" A. Q.

It's about the fourth sentence.

paragraph A. Q.

Yeah. Yeah.

That last full sentence?

Okay. Why don't you take a minute to read that and then I'm going to ask you some questions

19
20

19
20 21 22 23 24 25

Is Detective the title "Director

Quaas mistaken

when he uses that was you

paragraph, it.

of Finance"?

Because

21 about

at this time, was it not, sir?

22
23 24 25

A. Q.

Okay. Look at where it says, "It was also learned was an unauthorized City of by City of

A. Yes.
Q. SO he's mistaken of Finance"; when he says he was "told by is that fair? the Director A.

that this FedEx account Maricopa

FedEx account which was verified

That is fair.

OTTMAR

& ASSOCIATES

602-485-1488

Roger
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15

Glenn

Kolman

11/15/2010

21

Page 78 Q. And I think your position to Corrine Wilcox-Comn, is he's really the budget --

referring A.

Budget manager.

Q. -- analyst, that he kind of one time called
her, what, finance -- budget director, A. right? Well, I believe in this filing with the--

Q. 14. A. -- justice of the peace, that he referred to
her as the finance manager, statement. if that's Detective Quaas's

Q. Right.
analyst?

Andher real title is, what, budget

A. No, budget manager.
Q. that. Budget manager. Okay. Were you ever made aware of a memo that Mr. McDonald of'08 prepared regarding and gave to Mr. Evans in his version of the FedEx Okay. Ijust want to clarify

16
17

18 January 19 incident? 20 21 22 23 24 25

Yes or no? of that.

A.

I have no knowledge

Q. Never saw it. Okay.
Were you ever told at any time that Mr. Evans had cleared Mr. McDonald January of2008? MR. DOYLE: Object to the form. Page 79 of any wrongdoing in

1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Go ahead. BY MR. LANE:

Q. Were you aware of that at all?
A. Oh, okay, so ask me again.

Q. Were you ever told at any time by Mr. Evans or
anybody else that Mr. Evans had cleared Mr. McDonald of any wrongdoing? MR DOYLE: Form.

8
9

A. I don'! recall anybody telling me that.
Q. A. One way or the other? One way or the other.

10 BY MR. LANE: 11 12 13 14 15 16

Q. Okay.
MR. LANE: CounseL MR DOYLE: MR LANE: You're done? Yeah. All right. We'll read and I have nothing further,

17 18
19 20 21

MR. DOYLE:
sign. (11:36 a.m.)

22
23 24 25

ROGER

GLENi<.f KOLMAN

OTTMAR

& ASSOCIATES

602-485-1488

Roger

Glenn

Kolman

11/15/2010

80

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9

STATE OF ARIZONA COUNTY OF MARICOPA

SS.

BE IT KNOWN that the foregoing transcript was taken before me, HALEY WESTRA, a Certified Court Reporter in the State of Arizona; that the witness before testifying was duly sworn by me to testify to the whole truth; that the questions propounded to the witness and the answers of the witness thereto were taken down by me in shorthand and thereafter reduced to print under my direction; at the witnessrs request, notification was provided that the transcript was available to read and sign; that the foregoing pages are a true and correct transcript of all proceedings, all done to the best of my skill and ability.
I further certify that I am in no way related to

10 11 12 13 14
15

16 17 18
19

any of the parties hereto nor am interested in the outcome hereof.

I

in any way

Dated at Phoenix, Arizona, this 30th day of November, 2010.

20 21 22 23 24 25
OTTMAR & ASSOCIATES 602-485-1488

HALEY WESTRA, RPR - Digital Signature AZ Certified Court Reporter No. 50762