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SAUL MARANEY: It is 9h35 p.m. in Johannesburg, South Africa. 09h35 a.m. in Hawaii and today is the 12th of August 2007. This is Saul Maraney and I would like to introduce my special guest, Mabel Katz, author of the fascinating book, “The Easiest Way”. The “Easiest Way” is a practical guide for applying spiritual principles to get past blocks of obtaining what you want in your life. It is based on Ho`oponopono, an ancient problem solving art from the Hawaiian culture, which teaches that life in fact can be easy. This is what Dr Joe Vitale, the co-author of “Zero Limits” has to say about “The Easiest Way”. “This is the clearest explanation of Ho`oponopono that I have ever seen”. The book is in-depth and at the same time concise, with examples of how to apply Ho`oponopono in our daily lives. Originally from Argentina, Mabel is a powerful woman, and in addition to being bilingual, Mabel excels in two totally opposite careers. In her first career, Mabel has built a reputation of
excellence as an accountant, where she helps her clients with audit and tax problems, and as a Business Consultant where she is dedicated to helping people create successful companies. It is her second career that she says really turns her on, as a radio host, speaker, author and Los Angeles TV host of her own show. On her shows, Mabel shares her knowledge and wisdom of Ho’oponopono. Mabel’s first training with Dr Hew Len was back in 1997, and since then, she has worked very closely with him. Mabel travels around the world talking about her book, fascinating large audiences with her knowledge of Ho’oponopono. For many years she has been a Foundation of I - Self I-Dentity through Ho’oponopono seminar leader, and now, she has been given permission by Dr Len and the Foundation to share this information independently, especially in the Latin American countries. Mabel’s work can be found at www.businessbyyou.com and
www.hooponopono.org and www.mabelkatz.com. All around the world, especially since the wonderful movie, “The Secret” came out, many people are beginning to wake up, and I am especially grateful that Dr Joe Vitale has found
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out about Ho’oponopono, and he is now letting the whole world know about it. He says that Ho’oponopono is the missing secret. So, Mabel, please could you begin by explaining; What is Ho’oponopono? What does this Hawaiian word mean? and What does Ho’oponopono mean to you? MABEL KATZ: Yes, well, I thank you for this opportunity Saul. Ho`oponopono has really changed my life. I did a lot of searching, I tried a lot of different methods and procedures I would say, but I thought there was something missing. I knew there had to be an easier and faster way. And I did find it in Ho`oponopono, which is a very ancient art of problem solving. Basically, Ho’oponopono means how to correct an error. And errors means all those memories of opinions and judgements, all those programs we accumulate through our life. You know when we think we are right, what we think is right and wrong, what we think is correct or incorrect. And basically, how to let go. I define Ho`oponopono as the delete key in our computers. SAUL MARANEY: Yes…
MABEL KATZ: And when the programme comes out in the monitor, you can just use Ho’oponopono, the delete key. Everything that doesn’t work in your life, you can just erase it. That is the possibility that Ho`oponopono is giving us. And basically Saul, when
something comes out in the monitor, you know, that doesn’t work, I mean it is not the monitor, it is just the programme, so we can talk to the monitor all day long, but the monitor cannot do anything. We just need to go to the delete key. SAUL MARANEY: Right, and would you please describe some of the practices that you
did before you discovered Ho’oponopono ten years ago? MABEL KATZ: Yes, well I did a lot of things you know. I was trying to do channelling, you know, because I wanted to hear and I wanted to see, and then I tried a lot of different meditation techniques. I went to a lot of different kinds of seminars, where they use
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different kinds of methods, but especially, and what it brought me to Ho`oponopono was Re-birthing. Something that has helped me a lot before, trying Ho`oponopono was Rebirthing. Re-birthing, because Sandra Ray, one of the founders of Re-birthing, actually she met Morrnah Simeona. She used to bring a lot of Ho`oponopono to her training, and that is how I found out about it. SAUL MARANEY: Whew! And in your book you talk about the fact that happiness only
comes from within. When you found Ho’oponopono, How did you know that this had been what you were looking for? MABEL KATZ: Well because, you know, whenever you do a training, you do something, you look like you are always missing something … and that there is always somebody else out there that knows more than you. In Ho’oponopono, it is about you connecting directly to The Source. The Source that created you. The Source that knows you better than anybody. The Source that is inside of you, and has all the solutions to all your problems, and all the answers to all your questions. So is not about depending on anybody else outside of yourself, it is just to be remembering. Ho`oponopono I always say, reminds people of something they forgot. The power we have inside of ourselves to change our lives, without depending on anybody else outside of ourselves. SAUL MARANEY: Whew! And from reading your book, “The Easiest Way” and the book
“Zero Limit” and listening to Dr Len on “News for the Soul”, a big theme that comes across is the idea of taking 100% responsibility for whatever appears in our lives. Can you expand on this and really explain what happens when we do take 100% responsibility? MABEL KATZ: Yes, yes. Saul, I say 100% responsibility is the easiest way, that’s the
name of my book. Because we realise that again, like I said before, that which we created, we can change it. We always feel belittled, we feel victims, we feel poor us because we are always thinking that we depend on this, on somebody else to change, somebody else
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to do, and things like that, in order for us to be happy. Here it is about that I created it, I can change it. I have all the power to change it, and it is all up to me. I do take 100% responsibility for things to start changing. I change, everything changes. So we are always at work, always in on the family, always waiting for somebody else to change, or do things for us to be happy, or for things to get better. And this is actually all the wrong way around, because when we change, everything changes. SAUL MARANEY: Whew! And Ho’oponopono has many tools to help us take good care
of ourselves, and that is something that Dr Len talks a lot about. He said that the most important thing is to know who we are, and to take good care of ourselves. Can you describe what this means? Does it mean putting ourselves first? MABEL KATZ: Exactly! That is something Saul, which had meaning in my life. You
know, especially as mothers, we think. you know; “Well now we have kids, and now the kids come first”. We do things to please people and when we learn to put ourselves first, to take good care of ourselves, like I said before, when we change, everything changes. If we are okay, then everybody is okay. I learned to take good care of myself, do what works for me, so if I am okay, then my kids are going to be okay, and when we do things to please other people, or we do things that don’t work for us, we have to know that if it doesn’t work for us, it is not going to work for others. So in the case of motherhood, if I do things because of my kids, and it doesn’t work for me, then its not going to work for my kids. SAUL MARANEY: Very interesting… You make reference to the fact that the intellect
thinks that it knows what is going on and what is best for us, but it is only our heart that knows. Are you suggesting that if something feels good in our heart, we go for it and we do it, and if it doesn’t, we should leave it alone? MABEL KATZ: Exactly, exactly. It comes more from our heart and our feelings than from our intellect, because our intellect really doesn’t know. And one thing that I have learned is,
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that you know; The intellect wasn’t created to know things, which we have misunderstood somehow. The intellect is the part of us that has a choice. It is always making a choice, you know? You can insult me and I can choose to take the insult, or let it go, or you can give me a compliment and I can still choose to take it or not. I can accept it or not. So we are always choosing. We just have to realise that we always have that minute or that second in the day to choose. Things are going to happen; things are going to come into our lives. What are we going to do with that? - This is the key. Are we going to let go, or we are going to engage? Are we going to worry and think how we are going to resolve it, or are we going to let go? And Ho’oponopono is about letting go. SAUL MARANEY: Right, and the moment that stuff comes up for us, we can either
choose to let go and let God take care of it, or we can engage with our minds and thoughts and try and solve it ourselves. MABEL KATZ: Exactly. SAUL MARANEY: Can you describe how you go about it when something comes up in
your accounting practice and what goes through your conscious mind before you can actually decide to let go? MABEL KATZ: Yes. You know regarding my profession, you know that being an
accountant and being a business consultant, I have to tell you that clients just come to me. I have never advertised. I never tell people that I am an accountant. They find out. And it is usually by word of mouth or people who refer people. And because they come to me, I usually don’t say no, because I am thinking that The Universe is bringing them to me to give me one more chance, to give me one more opportunity to do my cleaning, how we call it in Ho’oponopono; To do my erasing. If people come with problems, it is within me, it is
not them. It is just the programs! So I just need to get to the programs. I just need to erase on the programs. I have to share with you that I am right now in Hawaii, and not because I
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live here. I live in Los Angeles, but right now I am helping somebody with an IRS Audit, a Government Audit here in Hawaii. And basically, my specialities are a lot of this, because of the results that I get by taking 100% responsibility. It’s not my client’s problem, you know, this is an opportunity for me to clean, to take that 100% responsibility. And the results with Auditors is amazing, because when I practice this as much as I can, I keep my mouth shut. You know that one of the problems is that we talk, and that is what gets us in trouble. I take 100% responsibility. I just do my cleaning while I am in the audit and everything, and I can tell you amazing stories of the results that nobody can believe. But it is about letting go, and letting God handle the audit instead of myself. Instead of me thinking that because I have a degree or because I am smart that I am going to solve that. So the idea is how to get out of our own ways, because we are our worst obstacles in our own lives. SAUL MARANEY: Whew! And can you talk a little bit about the subconscious mind, The
inner child which holds all our memories and programmes? MABEL KATZ: Yes, sure. What we need to know is that one of the most important
relationships we have to really take care of, is the one with our inner child. The inner child is our subconscious, and this is the one that is holding all these programmes and all these memories. So it’s about creating a relationship with this inner child, and you can assure this inner child that you are not going to abandon him or her anymore. You are aware, you are sorry for the times that you did. This inner child will actually do this cleaning for you if you really commit. I always tell people that it is really important to ride one horse. No matter what that is. For some people it might be going to the Church on Sunday and that is okay. But whatever it is, you have to ride one horse, because otherwise that part of you gets confused and when the problem comes out, what are we going to do? So if you are consistent for example with this cleaning, this child, the subconscious mind that actually
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does the breathing for you without you having to think, is going to do the cleaning too for you. SAUL MARANEY: But sometimes when we try too many different tools and we are
thinking about which seminar to implement, the subconscious child gets confused and doesn’t know how to do it by itself as it regulates our breathing for us. MABEL KATZ: Exactly! Because it says: “Okay, now that I have this problem, what am I going to use?” You know, the lessons that I learned two weeks ago in that seminar, or the one that I just learned? So I am not saying that this is the only way, but I am just saying that whatever you are doing and it works for you, you have to keep doing that. So for me to find Ho’oponopono, I am seeing that this is what I was looking for. It gave me a lot of peace of mind, it gave me not only the tools, but it gave me the peace of mind to know that I created it, so I can change it. I mean, that’s incredible. Because right now, we are completely asleep, and we are think we are in control. We think that we know what is going on, and we really don’t. We really don’t, and this is an amazing way of really letting go and letting God. Realising that we don’t know everything and that only God knows. SAUL MARANEY: I think that is very exciting. From my reading and what I have learnt
about Ho’oponopono, one of the things that really gripped me is that we don’t know what is going on. And when our intellect tries to decide and work out everything and question it, we can feel ourself going in the wrong direction. I understand Mabel, that the intellect cannot communicate with The Divine, but it can make the choice to let go rather than trying to solve all the problems by itself. Can you explain what happens when the intellect makes this critical choice to let go? MABEL KATZ: Oh it is really amazing. Your life really changes. You know, I needed to understand it also. I have a very thinking mind, and I also want to know and understand. But when I realised that I didn’t need to know anything, that I didn’t need to understand
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anything, that is really when freedom came. And the idea is that what we need to know is trust. The intellect cannot connect directly with God. This is something that the intellect will never understand. And this is how Ho`oponopono works, or why it works. The intellect will never understand it, and I always say to people: “Don’t try to understand it. Just, if it feels right to you in your heart, you do it, and if it is not for you, you let go”. But the intellect will tell you a lot of things, and the intellect doesn’t know what God is. It has never seen It, never communicated with It, and never will. But the inner child, the subconscious mind knows exactly. So when you can connect with this, and you start having some
experiences, some things will start happening to you, that you will think: “Wow!” Can it be that we are so powerful that we can really change our lives like this? And the intellect starts letting go, starts accepting. You know? Sometimes, even myself, you know, find myself having this conversation with my inner child saying: “Hey, we have seen how God works, we know that God can take care of this. If this is maybe too big or too much for us, why don’t we let go?” Why don’t we just concentrate on doing the cleaning and allowing God to take care of my problems? So you know, the times that I see this working the most is when I really let go. So I consciously, 100%, just let go, and I trust, and I trust that maybe it will not come in the form or the time that I am expecting it to, but that God knows exactly how and when is the perfect time. SAUL MARANEY: Phew! So we think we know exactly what is going on and we tell God
exactly what we want, the colour of the car and when we want it, and when it doesn’t arrive, we feel that God isn't listening to us. Are you saying that by having expectations, we miss out on many opportunities that may in fact be perfect for us from God? MABEL KATZ: Exactly, you know when all this started to make sense and started
working in my life, was when I let go of expectations. Actually, I was one of those students that went to my teacher, and I said, “You know what? I cleaned and I cleaned, and this
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doesn’t work”. And he didn’t say anything, but then he came back and said no expectations. And since then Saul, is that I swear by Ho`oponopono, because here when we do something, we aren’t expecting certain results. And when you realise that you don’t know what is right and perfect for you, and when is right and perfect for you, and you let go, you will be amazed. You will be so surprised of the way that God works. Now sometimes people perceive God as a concierge, you know, we tell him what we want, when we want it, and when it doesn’t show up that way, we say: “See, we are not heard, or this is not working.” But the thing is that everything that is perfect and right for us is right there, sometimes right in front of us, and we don’t see it because we are stuck in the expectation. We are stuck with; “How is it going to come?” And it doesn’t come that way, then we say; “This doesn’t work”. SAUL MARANEY: And you Mabel are a business consultant, and an accountant, and I am sure that all of this was a little bit weird for you too when you first started finding out about it. But now you know in your heart that these tools really do work. MABEL KATZ: Saul if it feels weird for you, for me it is still weird. You know, for my kids, its still weird. Like my youngest son said one day: “Yeah mum, I know this is weird, but it works.” SAUL MARANEY: Can you talk a little bit about the basic Ho`oponopono cleaning tools, the “I love You” and that process, and how that works? MABEL KATZ: Yes, yes, Saul, there are two basic and very important tools in
Ho`oponopono like “Thank You” and “I love You”. So basically you know, you have heard about loving your enemies and showing the other cheek. So Ho`oponopono is about showing the cheek of love, and also you know, thanking our enemies. Our enemies are our problems; We are not cleaning not to have problems. While we are going to be here, problems are going to come, so the idea is: What are you going to do when they come? So
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really, problems are just an opportunity. So if you let go, amazing doors will open, and amazing things will come to you, and you won’t have to go that way anymore. So its about that we create with our thoughts, so that is why its so powerful that instead of thinking: “How am I going to resolve this?” or “Who am I going to blame?” or “How come she did this to me, that I am such a good girl?” If you get into just the cleaning in your mind, sometimes you are not going to feel like saying “I Love You”, you know, to the other person, or saying “Thank You”. But if you are just willing to repeat it in your mind “Thank You”, “Thank You”, “Thank You” or “I Love You”, “I Love You”, “I Love You”. You know, even if you don’t feel it, this works. You do not need to feel it. The “I love You” or “Thank You” are just some pass codes. It’s a pass word to go into the programs. So the idea is that when things come, then it’s just an opportunity for it to work, to take 100% responsibility by saying “I am sorry, please forgive me for whatever is in me that has created this”. So we are not coming from guilt, we are not coming from, you know, that we are sinners. We are coming from, that there is a program. It is not us; it is just a program that is playing. And we have the ability to stop it. When we say “Thank You” or “I love You”, then this is what we are doing. We are taking 100% responsibility by saying “I am sorry. Please forgive me for whatever is in me that created it”, and by just saying “Thank You” or “I love You” is that we are doing all that, and something amazing happens. The program stops. But we are giving permission to God to erase that. We are not the ones erasing, it but we are giving permission. And we never know what we are erasing. We think we are working on our problem, or maybe on our boss or somebody, or something someone said. It doesn’t matter what it is, it is just a program, and the problems come only to give us one more chance. The chance to take 100% responsibility and say: “I’m sorry. Please forgive me for whatever is in me that created this.” SAUL MARANEY: Very nice, and we all have inner voices that talk to us, perhaps are saying that we are not good enough, or the mental chatter. And I want to ask you about
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going to bed. Is it very advantageous to use the cleaning tools as we are falling asleep in bed so that we can clean in our sleep? MABEL KATZ: Yes, I found that, you know, this cleaning can really go on for twenty four hours a day, seven days a week and 365 days a year, and that is what we really want. We want it to be in our hearts. I find myself even cleaning during dreams, you know, just remembering the dream. But I also use it a lot to go to sleep, because sometimes you know, like you said, those voices that tell us bad things about other people, the how comes? or the worries that we have of: How are we going to make it tomorrow?” or “How the money is going to come to pay the rent?” Or whatever it is. So I find myself always going to sleep by cleaning. So whatever it is that I am concerned about, I am making sure that, you know, I don’t get in the way. And sometimes you get this all in a dream. Sometimes it gets resolved, you know, unexpectedly, and solutions just comes as I am getting up in the morning or during the night or during the next day. But the idea is that we want to do this cleaning all the time. You know, maybe saying “Thank You” and “I love You” might look really simple and easy and yes it is easy, but what is difficult is how to do it all the time. How not to react, how not to blame, how not to think. So this is something that we want to do day and night. SAUL MARANEY: Very interesting. So when we have a problem, we sometimes think that we will let go, but we keep on worrying and we keep on trying to work it out for ourselves. And Dr Len said that we can only serve one master at a time: Inspiration or memories. And if we are thinking too much or worrying, does that actually prevent God from coming in and helping us with our problems? MABEL KATZ: Totally! You know the one thing that we can do when a problem comes out is clean or worry. Because when we do that, we are actually telling God: “Let me handle it, I know better.” Because what is happening, is that God is only asking us to take good care of
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ourselves and say “I’m sorry for whatever”. We don’t need to know what this is. Nothing. But that is giving God permission to take care of the problem. God gave us a gift, and that’s free will. We are always choosing. We are going to do it ourselves, or we are going to give it to God? Are we going to do it our way, or are we going to do it God’s way? So we are always choosing, and God will not invade our privacy. So, we actually have to give permission. We actually have to ask. We actually have to know that God will help us, or He will not, because He has created us. So the idea is that as soon as we give permission to God, you know, this is not about today. It is not about “go away, I am working”, or “This is my nap time”, or “We are closed, come back tomorrow.” This is something that works 24 hours a day, and it has to work. It is a natural law of The Universe. When you ask, the answer comes, when you knock, the door opens. There’s no “I don’t feel like it today” you know? SAUL MARANEY: Very interesting. Mabel, do memories get erased every time we use the Ho`oponopono cleaning tools? MABEL KATZ: Can you say that again Saul? SAUL MARANEY: cleaning tools? MABEL KATZ: I think, I am sure that there are other methods. I am sure people probably that are listening have different ways of doing it. Maybe they are doing it in a different way and they didn’t even know they are actually applying Ho`oponopono. I think that there are different ways of doing it. But, definitely, there is no way that thinking or worrying will erase programs, or something like that. It is about letting go. Somehow you find that it works for you when you are really letting go. Letting go, especially of opinions, judgments, you know, ideas. The thing that we would rather be dead right, you know, have the last word. It doesn’t matter that we are dead, but we were right.
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Do memories get erased every time we use the Ho`oponopono
SAUL MARANEY: So when Dr Len cured that entire ward of the criminally insane at the Hawaii State Hospital in the late eighties, using Ho`oponopono and not seeing any one of them on a one to one basis, was that because he took full responsibility for whatever he saw in those patients, knowing that in some way a programme or memory in him had been responsible for creating it, and by him opening up the door for God, that is what cured them? MABEL KATZ: Exactly! What happened is that he knew that the problem wasn’t with the other people, you know on the patient, but the problem was with him. The problem wasn’t the criminally insane people, it wasn’t him, it was a program. So somebody had to get to the program. Somebody had to work on the program. “Whatever is in me that has created that”. So he would work on these programs even before showing up to work, then showing up at the hospital, you understand? He cleaned during, he cleaned after, and he didn’t even work directly with the patient. It wasn’t like a usual session, you know, where he sees the patient and he is listening to their stories or what they have to say. But working on himself and the memories, and the programmes that caused them. Whatever got erased from him got erased from them too. That’s why this thing is so important for family relations, or any business, or whatever. Whatever gets erased from me, it gets erased from everybody else. That’s the beauty of it. So you can do this work even from home, you want to do it from home, you want to do it before you get up, you want to do it before you pick up the phone to call back clients, or call them first. You always have to be constantly cleaning. Be cleaning always. You don’t want to wait for something to show up to do that. He (Dr Len) didn’t have to be in the presence of the patients to see the changes, because when he took responsibility and erased those programs, they got erased from the patients too.
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SAUL MARANEY: Very interesting, And Mabel, what is the message here for Healers from this story and from what Dr Len achieved? Is it that they have to work on themselves, and clients actually come to them so that they can work on themselves to heal the clients? MABEL KATZ: I would say that it’s about knowing that the problem is not in the patient.
The problem is not, you know, out there, or your kids or your boss, it’s just a program. So when you take 100% responsibility, again, you can erase them before they even show up. So then you are going to say: “Oh, this doesn’t work”. But what happens is, that you don’t know what would have showed up, if you didn’t do the cleaning. You are never going to know of the things that you avoid from coming, that you prevented from coming because you did the cleaning. SAUL MARANEY: Whew … so Mabel, each time Ho`oponopono is used and you make that conscious decision not to engage, even though we may not see any results straight away, we could have been preventing something much worse from coming that has been cleared now. MABEL KATZ: That is a lot of my experience, a lot of my experience. And sometimes its by confirmation, you know, in the meditation or something like that, things come what we think are bad, then we realise what could have happened without the cleaning. And believe me, it could have been much, much worse. But again, it’s that judgement part of us that thinks it knows or thinks that it knows what it good, and what is bad. SAUL MARANEY: So only God knows what memories we are letting go of when we clean, and I have heard you and Dr Len talk a lot about it, and you said again today, that we don’t treat God as a servant, but we allow God to help us. When we allow God to help us and those memories get erased, can you explain how that works in simple terms so that I can better understand that?
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MABEL KATZ: Yes, again this is not about understanding, because the intellect will never get it. Okay? So we have to forget from that part. But basically, like I said before, people that come into our lives, its just the person, you know, pushing the buttons, or you know, that person triggering something in us. They are triggering actually, those are programs in us that we play. Now, those programs are always playing. Sometimes we explain it like this: If you can imagine a CD playing music. So we hear, and we know that that’s a problem, or “How am I going to pay the rent?”, or “What am I going to do with my kids that don’t listen to me?”, or “What am I going to do with my boss that is not treating me well?” So no matter what it is, is just what we call a memory. It’s just a CD playing. Now sometimes the CD player has the volume down, so we are not consciously aware, but the problem is already there. The data is always playing, the CD is always playing. So somebody comes and suddenly puts the volume up, we are aware that something has come up, and we think that is what we are cleaning with, that person or that situation. But we never know. Something just triggers, it just makes us more aware. When we just go to the cleaning, always, always that CD is stopped. Always! Even if we cannot hear it or feel it, even if we cannot see it. We cannot tell. It always stops! That it is God erasing, and God knows what we are ready to let go of at that time. So, a lot of those CD’s or memories are interrelated. So maybe when you say “Thank you”, I don’t know, maybe thousands of memory go right there. But that, only God knows. Only God knows what we are ready to let go of. Some people say: “How come you can’t let go of everything at once?” Yes, God could do that, but our bodies are also memories, so we will go like “poof”. You understand what I mean? We couldn’t take it, if all the memories would go at once. SAUL MARANEY: So Mabel, that’s the secret to seeing Ho`oponopono working in our life is really not expecting to see any specific results, and admitting to ourselves that we don’t
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know exactly what is going on in our life, and really allowing God to guide us, and leave it in His hands. MABEL KATZ: That is my experience Saul. I always tell people if I could have written the list of the things that I wanted, I would not have a quarter of what I have right now in all areas of my life. So, the idea is that you will love to realise that there is somebody that knows better than you, and that knows exactly what you need, and when you need it. So, somebody is always taking care of you, protecting you, if you allow it. If you give permission. So I feel it, because I also did a lot of those seminars when you write the list, and also when you have to feel like it is already happening, but what you need to realise is that while you are doing that, there are millions of memories and programmes running at the same time that you are thinking positive. And at the same time that you are making the list, and at the same time that you are feeling that you already have that car or that you have the house or that husband or wife. I mean, we are not in control at all. We fool ourselves thinking we are. And I agree that those things work, because we are that powerful. But what if I ask for something that wasn’t right for me? Why not let God do it? God can do that for us if we give permission. And when you let God … God knows better than us. Again, when we need Him, then we need to let Him in. So, we need to go back to being like children, like it says: “To go back home”, we need to become children. We need to start playing more. Again, let go of so many opinions and judgements, and allow God, and play with God. Ihaleakala says that God has a great sense of humour. It’s great to hang out with God, you know? So the idea is that we need to go back to Him. We need to go back to that. We need to also stop thinking that there is somebody out there on the earth, that knows better about our life. Nobody does! SAUL MARANEY: And in your book, you talk a lot about being happy and grateful, and what wonders that works. How does that tie in with Ho`oponopono?
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MABEL KATZ: Well basically, looking at things and being grateful because you know there are opportunities for you to clean, and that if you clean, you will be highly rewarded in every way. The idea is that even if you don’t feel attracted to Ho’oponopono, I always said that going to the gratitude state where you can … and I know there are a lot of things that could be happening to you, but I am sure that if you pause for a second and you say: “What are the things that I can be grateful for?” – You will be amazed of the things. And usually, that energy of gratitude, definitely puts you on another level. You see, we always want to be on a level where we are above our problems. And we don’t engage, and we don’t think we are the problem. We are much more than that. We are above that. So gratitude usually puts you above the problem, so that you can better live, you can have a better life, and you can have a better understanding. I always say; “You have the possibility of going to the top of the mountain and seeing the whole picture”, but we usually, you know, engage with the problems, and we forget to go up to the mountain to see. We forget to go up to the mountain to reflect or to have a better view, or to have a better understanding. We just engage with it and everybody that shows up in our lives. SAUL MARANEY: And Dr Len says that if we could see what our cleaning was doing, then we would never stop doing it, because we are unaware of what we are surrounded by, so we should be cleaning 100% of the time. Is it because Mabel, that if we are not cleaning, then automatically we are going to be coming from memory and almost self-sabotage ourselves? MABEL KATZ: Well that, and also Saul, we have to know that there are energies around that, that maybe we are not aware of, and maybe they are not influencing us positively. For example, you know how a lot of people could be depressed and they cannot explain it? Maybe, you know, they are attracting certain energies around them, that maybe they are not aware of, that could be feeding from that depression. Sometimes these entities feed
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from our sorrows, feed from our anguish, from drugs, from alcohol. They are usually very much around that emotional environment, because they feed from that. So sometimes we don’t know how to get out of certain feelings or states, and the cleaning does that. The cleaning cleans with all of that. So, there are two things that I always remember for myself and people like me, that maybe we call ourselves normal you know, but we cannot see them, and maybe we are not aware of those things around us. There are two things that I always remember: One is that if we only knew what happened every time we say “Thank You” or “I love You”, or every time we use any of the tools of Ho`oponopono, we would always be cleaning, and if we could really see the way that God works, we wouldn’t stop cleaning. Now the other thing is like you mentioned, because we aren’t aware of the things that are around us, and we are only aware of minimum stuff, like people who come into our lives, you know? But if we would be aware of other things that we don’t see that are around us, we also we would be cleaning on those problems. SAUL MARANEY: Whew, and I think you said before, that Dr Len is able to see a lot of these things that you said that us normal people aren’t able to see, and we are very fortunate that we are not able to see them, because I am sure its quite frightening what is out there. MABEL KATZ: Yes, well sometimes when I mention that to him, he says: “You don’t want to see. It’s really scary. It’s better that you don’t see it.” SAUL MARANEY: So Mabel, what you are really saying, and I have really enjoyed
speaking to you, and it’s really put more into context the whole Ho`oponopono, and how to use it in my life. Is Ho`oponopono about being at peace within myself no matter what is going on around at the moment, and actually a wonderful tool to keep us in the present? MABEL KATZ: Yes, exactly! You know, I would like to remind you of what I told you before. We don’t know, no expectations, the idea is that whatever is right and perfect is
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going to come, and how important it is for us to know, again, that we are well taken care of, and that no matter what it is, it is not that we are not going to have problems, but we do this to be at peace no matter what is happening around us. So the idea is that, no matter if we have a sickness, or we have money, or not, or whatever situation it is; How to be at peace. Because the problems are going to come anyway. Ho`oponopono or no Ho’oponopono. But now we are going to see them as opportunities, and we are going to be able to let go faster and easier. And the idea is that as we do this, we are going to feel at peace, and we are going to be at peace. Because it is not that we need to do something, or there is something that we need to know that will save us. Again, we are taken care of, we are protected. SAUL MARANEY: Great, and I know that you touched on it earlier but following on from the point you just made; Is Ho`oponopono a meditation within itself, because people ask how does meditation tie into Ho`oponopono, and meditation has become a big thing around the world, is this Ho`oponopono something that can replace meditation? MABEL KATZ: I don’t know that you can replace it for people that do their meditation that works for them. What I found is, I didn’t find a meditation that will work for me, that will really calm my mind. I actually couldn’t let go of all of myself. So for me, Ho’oponopono is 24 hours mediation. This is how to work by God’s hands all day long, and not just fifteen minutes in the morning, and fifteen minutes in the night. This is how to work with The Divinity all the time, all the time. And again, it’s like being walked by the hand of God, and its being able to do it God’s way, not my way. SAUL MARANEY: And I like in Dr Len’s online speech “Who’s in charge?”, it’s quite like what you are saying, that when we actually say to The Divine “I am sorry and please forgive me for whatever is going on with me that I am not aware of, that is causing this situation”. It’s actually a wonderful relief to know that we don’t need to know what’s going
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on, and God can take over from there, because by intellectualising it, there is just absolutely no answer that way. MABEL KATZ: Oh yeah, and again, that will also give you a lot of peace of mind. So we definitely don’t know that we don’t know, and we need to wake up. SAUL MARANEY: So a big part is, as you say, to really not have expectations and to not treat God as a concierge. What is the difference Mabel, between letting go and letting God and giving up? Some people think that by letting go and not thinking about that wealth that they want all the time, that they are giving up. What is the difference between the two? MABEL KATZ: You know there is a great poem that really defines that. Letting go is everything just started, letting go is all the possibilities that I have. So if you allow me I am going to email you this poem, and maybe you can read it. SAUL MARANEY: I heard that poem on Joanie interview with you and it was excellent. It is a wonderful poem! MABEL KATZ: I think you can read that poem because that will tell you everything about what really letting go is. SAUL MARANEY: Great! MABEL KATZ: Letting go is magical, letting go is magical, we just started, and everything is possible. SAUL MARANEY: And Mabel, I don’t know if you personally have received rude emails about how Ho`oponopono works, or if you try to explain it to someone else, and they come across as if they don’t believe this stuff; Is that a programme within us, that they are reacting to? MABEL KATZ: Everything is a program. Everything is a program. So the idea is that we take 100% responsibility, by saying “I am sorry, please forgive me for whatever it is in me that people are reacting to, or people don’t believe. And you know what Saul?
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Ho`oponopono is not for everybody! For example, when I am invited, you know, to have this moment with you, in conferences, you know I travel quite a bit, giving conferences in Spanish in Latin American countries too. I am not trying to convince everybody. I always tell people: “If I get one of you to do the cleaning, whatever gets erased from you, will get erased from me”, and that is why I do it. Now for me, I always tell people on radio, an on my TV shows, I always tell people: “I feel my mission is to wake up people, and then you have to find your own way”. If it is Ho`oponopono that’s great. Ho`oponopono is not going to hurt you. Ho`oponopono will help you to see more clearly, and maybe confirm that you are on the correct path, or that you found your way, or whatever works for you. But the idea is that we need to wake up. No matter what we do. Like I said before, if you find it in the Church, then go to the Church, but lets do something. We cannot continue feeling we are poor victims, that we don’t have any power to change our lives, or that we depend on somebody else or certain circumstances to be happy or to change our lives, because it’s all up to us. You take 100% responsibility, and as I said before, if we created it, then we can change it. SAUL MARANEY: I think its very interesting because Dr Len, I heard him say, that he actually welcomes those rude emails or people that are rude to him, because that’s the data that he wants to delete, which is very interesting, and a wonderful way to look at that. MABEL KATZ: And something Saul that is very important and that I learned also from Dr Len, is that the intellect is cruel. The intellect kills really. The intellect will do whatever to be right. So you actually don’t want to fight against the intellect. So you see, you come from your heart. And definitely, we can use Ho`oponopono for bad things too, because that is the power that we have. But the idea is, in the other things, there is a lot of manipulation of owning 5% or 1% of what you think you are in control of. Because like I said before, that while you are doing all those things, how many bits of information, how many programmes
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are running? Do you understand? We are not in control at all. So with Ho`oponopono, we don’t visualise, in Ho’oponopono, we don’t give orders, or write out the things we want. We just come from: “I don’t know anything. You know better. Please help me.” SAUL MARANEY: So we come from finding out who we are, and connecting to our
subconscious mind, which is the only part that can erase, through The Super Conscious and The Divine? MABEL KATZ: Exactly! The process is that the intellect has to make a choice. The
intellect is making the choice to let go. That is an order to the inner child, and the inner child makes the connection with the spiritual part of us that is perfect, because we are perfect. Okay again, what is not perfect are the programs. And we do have a part in us that is perfect; The Super Conscious. And that part of us knows exactly who it is, and that is not run by problems or things. And that is the part, that kind of defines our petition, and resents it to The Divinity. Then it’s The Divinity, the Hawaiians says that it is The Manna, which erases all these memories and all these problems. SAUL MARANEY: And that is the only part and the only thing. It is only The Divine that can erase the programmes, and not ourselves, which we sometimes think that it’s our own achievement and that we are doing the erasing, but we are not. MABEL KATZ: No, we are only giving permission. We are only giving permission to stop the tape, and to erase it. SAUL MARANEY: Great, well Mabel, I really want to thank you once again for speaking to me this evening and I really enjoyed it, and your wonderful answers made me even better understand Ho`oponopono. And I hope that this will enable a lot of people to spread the word, and to learn about it, and to help themselves. And I would like to leave you with that thanks again, and we really do appreciate it, and I hope to speak to you again soon.
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MABEL KATZ: It’s been wonderful and like I said, I am always happy to be able to share this, and if I have one second more, I would like to finish with, I am going to read you another tool of Ho`oponopono; It is called The Peace of “I”. SAUL MARANEY: Okay… MABEL KATZ: And this is great to close anything, a meeting, a day at work or a meal, or whenever you feel inspired to. You can just repeat the - The Peace of “I” in your mind, like “I love You” or “Thank you”. SAUL MARANEY: Okay… MABEL KATZ: The Peace of “I” says; Peace be with you , All My Peace, The Peace that is “I”, the Peace that is “I am”, The Peace for always, Now and forever and evermore. My Peace, “I” give to you, My Peace “I’ leave with you, Not the world’s Peace, but only My Peace, The Peace of “I”. interview. - So God bless you, and thank you so much Saul for this
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