REGULAR MEETING MARION COMMON COUNCIL APRIL 3, 2012 7:00 P.M.

.M., CITY HALL The Common Council of the City of Marion, Indiana met in regular session on Tuesday, the 3rd day of April, 2012 at the hour of 7:00 p.m. in the Council Chambers, City Hall. On the call of the roll the following members were shown to be absent or present as follows: Present: Troxell, Luzadder, Nevels, Whitticker, Thompson, Brunner, Smith, French and Batchelor. Absent: None. The minutes of the previous regular meeting of March 20, 2012 were presented. On a motion by Nevels, 2nd by Smith, the minutes were approved as presented by a unanimous vote. COMMITTEE REPORTS: Councilman Jim Brunner reported that the Park Board met yesterday, their monthly meeting here in this facility. Among the things he was asked to report on, the Wave Pool is ready to go again for the new year. So is the Splash House. Looking forward to another great year there. Even though they probably could have had it open today, it will be opened Memorial Day Weekend and everybody should circle that weekend on their calendar. Theyve had some requests to the Park Board for them to explore the possibility of opening up a Dog Park. What that is, its an area of land, maybe four or five acres of land, where people who maybe do not have access to greenspace would be able to bring their pets and exercise them during sunup to sunset hours. He knows down in Bloomington, he drives by one there every time he goes down to Indiana University and its very well used. So thats something that the Park Board is exploring. In fact, he should have something maybe to report at the next meeting. There has been some concern about some vandalism at Matter Park and hes shared some of those concerns, as the Council liaison to the Park Board, with the Chief of Police and theyre hopefully going to get a little bit more, the presence of the Police Department there because theyve done some wonderful things with the park and they want to be sure that those are used, are safe. Theyve had some destruction of some of their property out there which they just cant tolerate so thats kind of a downside of the meeting but he did want to report on that because thats been passed .E NT on to the proper authorities. For those who like to play softball, he was asked to also report this. Theyve already had one meeting but softball leagues are forming so, Reggie, get the bat out and Brad, get your catchers gear out and sign up to play softball this year. So, very nice meeting. They have added Alan Beck, has joined the Park Board as a new member so they were glad to welcome him on board yesterday. So, thats what happened yesterday at their meeting and hell keep them posted, Brunner stated.

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Councilwoman Joselyn Whitticker said she attended the Lt. Governor, Becky Skillmans, Roundtable Intergovernmental Relationships on the 27th of March and what was discussed was intergovernmental relationships and how we get along and economic development and what has been on the legislative scene and what effects cities and towns and so on and how we work together with our local county officials from all over Grant County and also how we work with her (Lt. Governor) office with economic development and so on. So the informational article that accompanied that after, the day after, was also in the paper on the 28th. Moving right along, the Grant County Economic Growth committee, some information will be disseminated tonight with whats on the agenda and also the upcoming Masquerade Ball. There will be a press release for that, inviting the public, if they would like to purchase a ticket and so on, and working with that, and Rod Kauffman will be the person that will be the speaker this year, Whitticker said. UNFINISHED BUSINESS GENERAL ORDINANCE NO. 2-2012 3RD READING/PUBLIC HEARING (Was tabled on 3/6/12) An Ordinance amending Ordinance No. 14-1991 regulating the excavation and restoration of street and alley pavement (paved or unpaved) within the public rights of way under the City of Marion jurisdiction. Council President Don Batchelor said that General Ordinance No. 2-2012 has been pulled from tonights agenda so they wont be having a public hearing on the amending of the Street Cut Ordinance. That has been pulled from tonights agenda. Councilwoman Joselyn Whitticker told Council President Batchelor she has several questions concerning that whole matter. If this is being pulled, they gave, as a Council, a directive at their last meeting and that was for the three

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GENERAL ORDINANCE NO. 2-2012 Continued contractors plus Vectren employee, two Council members and Mike Graft to meet. Did that ever occur? Batchelor replied, no, that didnt happen. Whitticker stated, okay, then she believes they need to go back to that and before its moved to committee or anywhere else, those gentlemen need to meet together and she believes that directive was given to Mr. Graft so she believes it falls back with Mr. Graft and the four people are the three contractors plus Utilities personnel to be at that meeting and they need to go on record as a second time that they would like this meeting to occur because this is about the citizens of our community and raising money because if this goes into effect without them making that discussing then that cost is going to be passed over to the citizens and they are in economic, dire straights. They need to say, if they are saying theyre going to do something, they need to follow through and they need to do that. So, before it goes back to Council, she would recommend that that meeting be held then it go into Council because they have two Council people who volunteered and that was Paul Thompson and also Henry Smith to work with them. Surely, theyve gone 30 days, they have another two weeks. Surely a meeting can be held and so on before it goes to Council, Whitticker said. Councilman Fred Troxell said, at the last meeting, they said that the contractors would have a right to speak at this meeting. Now theyre here. Batchelor told Troxell, theres no discussion because the Mayors Office and Mr. Graft have pulled this from the agenda. Theyre the ones that will be presenting it so therefore, thats why they want to let folks know upfront that that would not be discussed tonight because its been pulled off the agenda. Troxell replied, okay, just so these gentlemen and ladies in the audience know, its not their (Council) decision to take this off the agenda tonight. Ms. Whitticker added, with it being removed, shes going back to her same question. She would advise, since they are transparent and they say theyre transparent, that they allow the seven gentlemen to work together and then, if the Mayor and Mike Graft would like to put it back on Council or so on, get back with them. She has a problem with finding out something of this nature, and she found out yesterday, indirectly, that it was going to, she wasnt told it was going to be pulled. She was told that a person would not be here tonight to discuss it. That was not made transparent to the public. That creates hard feelings in itself and they said they were going to have a meeting. She has a problem with saying our word is one thing and they talk and .E NT walk something else, Whitticker stated. Council President Batchelor said, that seven member committee, they can meet and whoever will Chair the meeting and what have you, that can still take place but tonight, that has been pulled off tonights agenda. So do they have a Chair for that meeting, Batchelor asked. Whitticker replied, since they have, she is not on that committee, it would fall under Mr. Smith, Councilman Smith. Councilman Henry Smith said, they will take this up after the Council meeting so therefore, anyone who is interested in it, just stay after the Council meeting and they will take it up then. They will stay, in other words, plan for a meeting some time when everybody can be there and so they will meet with anyone tonight after the Council meeting so they can plan for another date for that. Batchelor asked, so everyone is clear on that? Councilman Smith will allow opportunity at the end of the Council meeting tonight to meet with those individuals that are on this committee and discuss a meeting time or whatever the case may be and the parameters surrounding that committee, Batchelor told the Council. Smith said that is correct.

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GENERAL ORDINANCE NO. 4-2012 2ND READING AND PUBLIC HEARING The City Clerk read General Ordinance No. 4-2012 by title only. An Ordinance to vacate a portion of a public way, vacate that portion of an alley located between 44th and 45th Streets in the block between Landess and Harmon Streets, common addresses being 4417 through 4401 S. Landess and 4402 to 4416 S. Harmon Street, all in Marion, Grant County, Indiana. Phil Stephenson, attorney for petitioner, told the Council as he indicated to them last time, the purpose of their request is an alley, which is located between Landess and Harmon and also between 44th and 45th. As they indicated to them, the purpose for that closing was the new seminary, which Indiana Wesleyan University is actually starting construction on in that area. While the building will not be over this alley, the alley is essential for access to that building. The University owns all the property around that building so, as a practical matter, no one would be affected in that block and they have already closed 45th Street so they couldnt take it through anyhow. At this point, it dead ends and they own all the property around there. They are aware that there are two utilities, I & M and also Vectren, who have utilities in that alley, however, they contemplated that in advance. If theyll look at the ordinance at Section 2, it is already provided in Section 2 that those easement rights would be retained in that alley and they have no intention, as he indicated, on building across that. So, theyre asking them, after the public hearing, they would like to see it passed to a 3rd reading, if that would be within their discretion, and that they would approve this for

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GENERAL ORDINANCE NO. 4-2012 Continued them. If they have any questions, Mr. McHenry from Indiana Wesleyan is also here and they would certainly try to answer any questions they may have, Stephenson said. Councilman Fred Troxell said, he went out and looked at this property and hed say he sees absolutely no reason why they shouldnt pass this to vacate the alley. Being no further questions or comments from the Council, Council President Don Batchelor said, this is a public hearing. Anyone that would like to speak for or against this ordinance, they ask that they approach the podium, give their name and address and turn the power button on on the mike. Being no response from the audience, Batchelor then said the Chair would entertain a motion. Councilwoman Joselyn Whitticker so moved with a second given by Councilman Troxell. Councilman Brad Luzadder called a point of order and asked can this be passed on the second reading with a suspension of the rules? Corporate Counsel Josh Howell replied, it may, it can. Luzadder then said, he would agree with Mr. Troxell that there shouldnt be any reason why they couldnt pass this since they (IWU) own everything. He asked Ms. Whitticker if she wanted to do that. Whitticker told Luzadder, no, she does not. She doesnt believe in suspending so they will do a voice vote from her perspective. Councilwoman Madonna French stated, they still can suspend. It only take a majority to suspend the rules. Batchelor told the Council, so the motion that is on the floor is to move it to 3rd reading. Luzadder added, the motion is to pass it on to 3rd reading according to what was made in the motion. Motion to pass to 3rd reading then failed by the following vote. Aye: Troxell and Whitticker. Nay: Luzadder (commented he wants to pass it on 2nd reading), Nevels, Thompson, Brunner, Smith, French and Batchelor. Motion was then made by French to suspend the rules on General Ordinance No. 4-2012 and pass it as a final item. Motion was seconded by Nevels. Before the roll was called, Councilman Jim Brunner called a point of order and asked Mr. Howell if that had to be a unanimous vote or just a majority? Howell replied, its a majority. They require a unanimous consent and a supermajority to pass on a single reading. They never require unanimous consent under the laws of the State of Indiana but this is on 2nd reading so its only a majority. Motion then carried by the following vote. Aye: Luzadder, Nevels, Thompson, Brunner, Smith, French and Batchelor. Nay: Troxell and Whitticker. Brunner then asked, dont they now need another motion? Howell stated, they will need another motion. They have suspended .E NT the rules and now they will need to make a motion to pass it as well. Motion was then made by French to pass General Ordinance No. 4-2012. Motion was seconded by Thompson. Before the roll was called, Councilwoman Whitticker told Batchelor she thinks he needs to say how they are passing it, by suspending the rules, so make it very clear. Mr. Batchelor stated, the rules have been suspended and they are now voting on final passage of this ordinance. Motion then carried by the following vote. Aye: Troxell, Luzadder, Nevels, Whitticker (said she would vote yes with the suspension), Thompson, Brunner, Smith, French and Batchelor. Nay: None.

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GENERAL ORDINANCE NO. 5-2012 2ND READING AND PUBLIC HEARING The City Clerk read General Ordinance No. 5-2012 by title only. An Ordinance authorizing the issuance of the City of Marion, Indiana economic development revenue bonds, and the lending of the proceeds thereof to Tree of Life Bookstores, Inc. and authorizing and approving other actions in respect thereto. Darren Reese, Director of Development Services for the City of Marion, told the Council, pitch hitting for Bruce Donaldson is Rich Starkey, a partner also in Barnes & Thornburg law firm. Hes also been before this body many times and served the city as bond counsel repeatedly. He also wanted to pass along an apology from Mayor Seybold for his absence this evening. He is actually with another development group right now and on his way to another community event. He would like Mr. Starkey to explain the Economic Development Commission meeting that occurred just previously to this meeting and theyll pick up from there. Mr. Starkey told the Council he is with the law firm of Barnes & Thornburg. The ordinance that is before them tonight is an ordinance for the issuance of economic development bonds. Those bonds they have seen in the past are bonds that are actually issued by the city but have a recommendation by the Economic Development Commission behind them and the reason for that is, under the statute, there is a retention or creation of jobs associated with the bonds. The Economic Development Commission met today at 6:00 pm and held the statutorily required public hearing for the bonds. There was a comment from the public that was received that was basically discussion construction jobs and wanting them to be local and that was noted. The Redevelopment Commission met earlier today to actually pass a resolution that would pledge the tax increment revenues that come off this project. As the renovation is completed, those extra TIF revenues which would be pledged to the bonds and would be the repayment source for the bonds. So the ordinance thats before them tonight is, as they just experienced with the prior

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GENERAL ORDINANCE NO. 5-2012 Continued ordinance, can be passed tonight and, as he said, there was a public hearing already today and noticed in the newspaper for that. If they have any questions at all, hed be happy to answer those, Starkey said. Councilman Paul Thompson said, his question would be to Mr. Reese. Is this bond for the KY building, is it the same property that theyre talking about? Reese replied, just as they talked at the last meeting, this is the facility that was commonly known as the old Hobby Lobby. Thompson then asked, what happens, theyve already been through a bond issue on that property. What happens to that bond and whos going to be responsible for the necessary payments that were supposed to be made during that? Reese said, this is the first bond allocation to that property. What theyve done previously was establish a tax increment district and never allocated those funds to anyone other than us so this is the same district that they developed previously but this is the first time that they are issuing bonds for a project on that site. Councilwoman Joselyn Whitticker told Council President Batchelor she had some questions for Mr. Reese concerning this issue. According to the Assessors record, they were told that they paid $1,500,000 for that property. Well according to the Assessors website, its $2,500,000. There is a difference of $1,000,000. Reese told Whitticker, yes, the previous owner donated $1,000,000 of that sale to the project. There was never any cash transaction. That was primarily to enhance their bottom line. They were asking $2,500,000 for the project when the city did purchase it many years ago and they were able to negotiate it to $1,500,000. Whitticker then asked, why does that not show in the records anywhere? This is the first time theyre discussing it, because she went back and did some more due diligence and, as always, she will question him about the taxpayers money and where we are going with this. Since they now know they gave us $1,000,000, how will that be reflected because nowhere else has she seen that? Reese responded, that was a donation in the form of a tax deduction. Again, there was no cash transaction with that $1,000,000. Ms. Whitticker asked, shouldnt that have been told to the city and the taxpayers at some point or another before she had to raise this question now? Mr. Reese said he believed that was fully disclosed at the time in the Redevelopment Commission and in the public meetings. Whitticker asked, before? Reese told her, yes. Whitticker stated, but since this is coming here and so much information is out there about this whole thing, it bothers her, shes coming on down to something else. .E NT When she was going through the records of the bills and so on for the city, it showed that we paid $53,000 or $52,000 and some odd cents for insurance. Why was the insurance paid on this and this has nothing to do with Mr. Campbell. Shes trying to figure that out. Couldnt Y2K and at some point or another, there was an article about a possible foreclosure and so on. Reese told Whitticker he would be very happy to speak with them in a more appropriate forum if they want to discuss the YK Furniture deal, as he has offered. They had to insure the building, as a city, as it was theirs and they wanted to make sure they were protected in case anything were to occur to that building. So, thats why they did that. Whitticker told Reese shes glad hes answering that question because it was there and, you know, it just kind of bothers her because shes dealing with, all the Council members are dealing with the welfare of the city and she comes back to something she keeps coming back to and some people feel is harping, but thats alright with her. $13,000,000 or up to $13,000,000 is a lot of money, not to mention the interest and so on, and these missing fragments bother her. Maybe it doesnt bother other people but it does her because shes working with somebody elses money and these questions that she raises are questions that people raise for her and she has a problem with doing private business when they say theyre going to be transparent and then she has to raise a question with him to get an answer here. Reese answered, again, they have made these aspects of these deals public in the past and his apologies for her not being aware of those. Sometimes its impossible to make sure everyone is aware of everything. He has to agree, hes very much concerned about the fiscal health of this community. He cannot speak to nor has no direct knowledge of the $13,000,000 that shes speaking of but they will not be able to continue to grow as a community if they are not financially stable. There is a difference between what sources of funds they are using within the Redevelopment Commission vs. what a General Fund burden may be. With this project today and with the projects they have done through the Redevelopment Commission, the general burden is not on the General Fund of the city. It is part of the TIF districts themselves. Whitticker said, that is true but doesnt the Economic Development run through the budget of the city and does not the city pay part of the bills and the salary and so on thats involved in that? Reese replied, he guessed he doesnt fully understand. His position is paid for through the General Fund, yes it is, but most of the economic development processes that they do are basically self-funded through future tax income, not taxpayer income. They do not impact negatively the traditional tax base. Just as with this project and they spent some time talking about it at the last meeting, it does not take away any taxes that are being paid today on this site. It only allows

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GENERAL ORDINANCE NO. 5-2012 Continued them to incentivize the growth and ultimately more local option income tax and generation of jobs and interest in the community to be able to grow ultimately the tax base as a whole. So, he knows thats scratch your eyes out with sandpaper sort of stuff but what they are doing does not have a negative impact on the current tax base or the General Fund of the city. Ms. Whitticker told Reese, maybe from his perspective but they need to have that discussion but she wants that discussion to be open for the public to understand whats going on because if the people understood, they would not question her about that. Reese told Whitticker, oh, he gets questions all the time, too, so his sympathies and every one of them hes sure do get that and he will make himself and continue to make himself available to this body, to them individually, to work through what are generally complicated things but, for those interested people and the public in general to make sure that they know that theyre not doing anything that is going to be of damage to them. Whitticker stated, question. Since we paid insurance, the liability on that so if something had happened to the building, it would have been insured. Now, will that money be deducted from the price thats going to be paid to YK? Reese said they have not defined exactly. He believes that was actually repaid by them already. Hell take another look but he does believes that was part of their.. And again, certainly no disrespect to the Councilwoman but before them, they have the opportunity to grow a local company in a facility that desperately needs renovation in a way that they are going to be able to do it to where they reach their ultimate end which is where they wanted to be no matter what with the revised corner of 16th and the By-Pass that they can all be proud of, that has economic development being generated at a higher level than it is today in it so he would urge that they focus on that right now. Councilwoman Whitticker said, well, since this is all a part of that focus and so on, she thinks all of that needs to be made clear because none of them in this room, theyve all said they are in support of Mr. Campbell and that growth and so on. What they have concerns with which was not clear, its been made more clear after she questioned him (Reese) about it and did some due diligence on her own to look into the information about that whole thing. Had that been on the table, maybe some of the skepticism surrounding some things would not have been there. Reese commented, skepticism is a bad thing. He would agree. Councilman Fred Troxell told Mr. Reese he said he would rather talk in private. Now this is what . Campbell would NT makes people have questions. Now, for an example, hes got real questions about it because if Mr.E just sit back and waited, they were going to foreclose on this property. It would have been another deal where he could have picked it up for a lot less money. Now he feels like hes (Campbell) being taken advantage of. Thats his opinion. But why would he be willing to pay off the $1,500,000 debt when he could have waited when they foreclosed on it and bought it like they have other buildings here in Marion. This is why they have real questions, Troxell said. Councilman Brad Luzadder said, he would say that they move on to the subject at hand for Mr. Campbell and can discuss the rest of the things with YK at a later date. Reese said, he doesnt believe in any way that its appropriate to elude to the fact that someone is trying to be taken advantage of in this, Mr. Troxell, and he is only respecting that the agenda that has been published be reflected in the conversation. Troxell told Reese he didnt accuse anybody of anything. He said because of his (Reese) statement to Mrs. Whitticker, why dont they talk about this so the public doesnt hear it? Thats the way it came across to him. So, he just said, thats why he has questions, Troxell said. Reese replied, well, hes sorry that he understands it in that light but he has repeatedly made himself available and said that he will continue to make himself available. It is in his best interest for the community and all of them to understand what is and hes very happy to do that. Troxell stated, again, they made it clear, he thinks they all are for Mr. Campbell and the project but theres a lot of questions. Councilwoman Madonna French said, she would like to recommend that they ask Mr. Reese to come back to their next meeting and discuss this other subject in detail with them here in their meeting so the public can see and she would also like to move General Ordinance No. 5-2012, move for final passage. City Clerk Kathleen Kiley asked, suspend the rules? French replied, they dont have to, according to Mr. Starkey. Starkey stated, well, as he understands it, its possible they have local rules. Corporate Counsel Josh Howell added, yeah, go ahead and suspend the rules and move it. They are going to ask that they do it in that fashion. Councilman Jim Brunner called a point of order and said this is a public hearing. Batchelor stated, that is correct. Reese commented, it was advertised as such. Ms. Whitticker told Batchelor, she thinks at this point, going back to what Mr. Brunner said, this is a public hearing and at this time, he (Batchelor) would entertain public comments concerning this matter. Council President Batchelor asked, okay, does anyone from the public have any, want to speak for or against Ordinance No. 5-2012? Lucinda Caudill 809 E. Marshall Street, Marion told the Council they make it kind of intimidating to come up here because they think everything they say is going to be pulled apart and taken a

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GENERAL ORDINANCE NO. 5-2012 Continued different way and mentioned later so its kind of hard, shes just a factory worker. She thinks its important to follow proper procedure and rules unless theres some dire need not to because she thinks perception is 90% of most things. Most people cant come to the Council meetings or choose not to. Some cant watch it on television. Some dont get the paper. But its important, she thinks, to look aboveboard. Now, one of the rules, she thinks, is just like Fred Troxell is her Councilperson. Proper procedure is shes going to him. Thats one thing. She looks around this circle here and she doesnt see anyone, in all honesty, that wants anything but the best for Marion and she doesnt think any of them would do anything to jeopardize that. Even if the powers that be would come to them, she honestly thinks she knows most of them well enough to know that theres a lot of integrity here but she also thinks when theyre dealing with people like her, rank and file, high school education, and the voters, the people that put them in office, its so important to think how things are perceived by those people that support them and deleting the rules, bypassing, some of the standards of the hearings or whatever, she doesnt think it looks good. It might be good. At their meeting they had, Mr. Campbell and Mr. Reese, neither one said anything about bypassing a rule that there was any rush on this so she really doesnt understand the rush. She gets a lot of phone calls too and has to kind of separate Marion and Jonesboro and Gas City. Shes not in any position to really help anybody but, you know, people call anyone sometimes and this is some of the questions. They need to know they can trust them and theyve already bypassed one rule tonight. Shes not sure why. Nobodys against it, shes not against it. But again, they bypassed a rule, a hearing. Now, they may say its not a rule because they can vote to (inaudible) the 3rd hearing but shes telling them it doesnt look good to people like her, the uneducated people that they represent, it doesnt look good. Shes had people say, well, do they just want to skip it so they dont have to bring it up at a 3rd meeting, take a little longer? No. Nobody here would do that. Nobody here wants to skip through and make a meeting fast by passing something on the 2nd reading. She doesnt believe that. She doesnt believe any of them would. Shes talking about not reality. Shes talking about perception and she thinks, when you represent the public, she wants them to have confidence in this Council and in Marion and the way Marion is headed. She does think it is important to be above reproach. It doesnt .E NT mean theyre doing anything wrong because they vote on it. They do everything legal. But she does think it is important just to take those extra steps. Theres sometimes no rush so why not just take the extra time and make everybody feel a little more confident in what theyre doing because, like she said, shes met with them before and she watches them on television and she has confidence in all of them. She really does. She knows shes a Democrat but shes known them and seen them in the community long enough to know that theres nothing going on here but the public needs to know that. They need to know that theyre going through every step, every hearing. Theyre doing all they can to research these things, that theyre transparent. Thats just her two cents. Thank you, Caudill said. Steve Henderson 622 E. Stephenson Street, Marion told Reese, getting back to the ordinance itself, he had a couple of questions maybe he could come back up and answer for him. Hed like to know some of the terms of the TIF that theyre dealing with and also is the Tree of Life Bookstore, are they a non-profit C-3 organization or not and how will that affect the payback on the TIF since that organization doesnt pay property taxes? Mr. Reese told Henderson, excellent questions. Yes, they are a for-profit company. That is one of those things he had in the back of his head over the last couple of weeks to make sure he said this evening so thank you, Mr. Henderson, for bringing that up. Basically said, if theres no taxes, theres no TIF so they are a for-profit company. What they have is the ability to bond, if this is moved forward, they have the ability to bond up to $10,000,000. The TIF that is generated from that site will be used as an income stream to assist in paying that back so thats the model. Someone asked whats the time limit and Reese said the time limit is 20 years. Mr. Campbell told the Council, the Tree of Life Ministries is probably the non-profit hes (Henderson) thinking of which has property on 18. Theyre not associated with that non-profit. Mr. Reese said, yeah, Mr. Campbell has suggested there may be some confusion with the religious organization on State Road 18 which is the Tree of Life Ministries. They are non-profit. And he also has been questioned and its primarily due to the basis of their business and relationship with the colleges and things like this but this organization that they have before them today is a taxpaying community citizen. Councilman Paul Thompson told Reese he wanted to thank him for clarifying that. The only reason he brought this up was he wants to see everything cleared up from YK Furniture Company and make sure when the Tree of Life comes in, they dont have any problems and they can progress as quick as they would like to and he apologizes for this hold up this evening but he thinks they know a little bit more now and he appreciates the information that has been shared and he, too, would like to see them move along with this. James

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GENERAL ORDINANCE NO. 5-2012 Continued Hollingsworth told the Council he lives in Marion, Indiana. He agrees with the first speaker about following procedures established and gaining public confidence so he doesnt have to address that issue. His main concern is that this YK situation is a speed bump in this process, that there has to be full disclosure about involvement, previous commitments of YK industries and also, you know, when you get somebody who says, you do something for me, Ill do something for you, he wants to know what deal was made with YK to give up the situation. If Mr. Reese is going to come back to the Council and ask for something additional for YK Industries, he thinks they need to investigate this YK thing as part of the Tree of Life thing to be completely transparent on all aspects of it. Another point hed like to make is about taking future tax money away from the schools. At the last meeting, Mr. Reese said that there would be additional students and student funds coming from the state. Thats not always true. He would like to see some backing for that statement. His cronies are constantly talking about vouchers and freedom of choice, school choice and theyre giving away the tax base of our public schools. Its been going on for years. While Mr. Reese can say theyre not taking anything away now, theyre taking away something in the future. He thinks that should be a major consideration. Another aspect he wishes to address is the retail aspect of this. Its not just a storehouse or anything. Theres the intention here of building retail space on the parking lot area and theyre going to be giving retail businesses tax advantage over other businesses on the By-Pass. He constantly sees in Marion where one business will leave and another business will come in to take its place, like Hobby Lobby or Carsons or Steve and Barrys. Somebody leaves and somebody comes. A community has a caring capacity for economics and if they get new retail business in, there might be an (inaudible) reach on the part of Tree of Life to go into this retail situation but its an advantage that they couldnt gain anywhere else so its probably an advantage for them selecting this site. But, the point hes trying to make is, it might be putting other businesses on the By-Pass out of business to gain business at another location through tax advantages that they dont have presently. And, its been mentioned by Mr. Reese that other Administrations have used this TIF thing before and so forth but it seems to him theyve seen a lot of Mr. Reese in the years and somebodys making a career out of this, which may not be Mr. Reese himself. In fact, he has a lot of .E N hes respect for Mr. Reese. Hes on the front lines. Hes coming up here and hes facing the public and T facing the Council and he feels hes being prepared for something bigger and better because its a tough job and hes criticizing him but he understands that he has taken upon himself to be on the front lines and go forth on this. Thats all he has to say, Hollingsworth said. Mr. Reese thanked Mr. Hollingsworth and told him he had him until the bigger and better thing and he does appreciate him taking the time to pay so much measure to his comments from the last meeting. A few of his points he (Reese) feels are appropriate are and for everyone to be aware of, YK Furniture did not receive a dollar from the city in their efforts to grow their business in Marion. At latest count, they have spent north of $500,000 on their venture. They are not leaving the community. They are getting out of the way of this other opportunity. Again, he doesnt want to take it too far down that path but he does respect that there would be and are some questions about that project. Thats fine. Thats natural and fair to be part of the conversation but that is a very different and independent project than what they are talking about today. He does feel like hes been up here too much but he thinks thats because they actually had a lot more opportunities to do things like this than they have had in the past and he thinks thats a reflection of how the community is becoming more and more vibrant. The retail question about creating an unfair situation, he believes that as early as the next meeting, theyre going to be talking about doing this very same thing with the mall. They established their district at the end of last year for their rehabilitation. They are nearing the place where theyre ready to also finance that reconstruction which would mean that they would go through the process again, just as they are here, to offer bonds for the benefit of that organization. Much of the retail corridor across, you know, the non-By-Pass By-Pass that we have is in the TIF district and depending on the scale of the project, its available as a district so its not On a case by case basis, he can understand how it seems like there would be a specific advantage or disadvantage but that is one of the things that the Councilors that are on the Economic Development Commission also review and they agree that we are not creating an unfair advantage to anyone. Yes, retail stores come and go. It happens. Their goal is to just get more and more of them and lose less than they get in. Projects that they bring will fail. The only way that they know theyre not going to fail is to never do anything but thats another soapbox. The school system, he does, and go back to any capital concerns that they would have going forward, which would be possibly impacted by property tax, they would love to take into consideration in their planning. So, while there is no conversation or no projects on the table now, they would certainly do that and he hopes

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GENERAL ORDINANCE NO. 5-2012 Continued that he did convey that they are not hurting their public schools in any way. They are trying to make it an environment where people will want to be and thus recruit people that may be of childbearing age to bring students to our schools which does have state money following it. Those are his notes. He does appreciate Hollingsworths comments and hes sure the Council does too, Reese said. Councilwoman Joselyn Whitticker told Mr. Reese, if that is the case, the next business venture then they can say that our library and our school will have a certain amount that is coming out of the TIF because that can be written into the contract and she has read that in other cities and communities and so on and since they have this, shes looking at the CReED information and so on and we have a larger TIF district than Marion County, which is Indianapolis. So, what shes going to do, with taxpayers listening, is hold him (Reese) to that point, that at some point in the near future, not distant future, that our school district and our library system does receive some of that funding and so on. It can be done the way the contracts are written up, Whitticker said. Reese replied, absolutely and he appreciates her passion towards that, obviously, but the financial impact statements are made on a per project basis to the taxpayers that have the opportunity to come in. While hes not going to commit to setting aside a certain portion that may not be necessarily used because theres no reason to just let taxpayer money sit and not generate some sort of return, they absolutely do take it on a case by case basis as to what the needs of the community are and they do that and have done that. Whitticker told Reese, and she will hold him to it. Mr. Reese told Ms. Whitticker, he has no doubt. Frances Marley 1936 W. 16th Street, Marion told the Council his question is, he noticed in the last month or month and a half, theyve been marking up 16th Street out there on different markings and stuff and hes wondering if they were going to do some major roadwork out there to accommodate this move out there. Since he lives on 16th Street, he would have some input on that if there was something like that going to be done out there since 16th Street isnt very wide and the people that live down through there, their homes are pretty close to 16th Street also. So he was wondering if there was going to be any major roadwork done out there to accommodate this Tree of Life coming in, Marley asked? Reese responded, to his knowledge, he doesnt know what that is. This project would be self-contained on its parcel. He doesnt see any specific need to upgrade 16th Street but he doesnt have any .Etold N knowledge of anything there. The Engineering Department may have a better idea. Ms. WhittickerT Mr. Reese, before he leaves, since Mr. Marley brought that up, that may be something he needs to check into as a part of redevelopment because that street is a part of that whole corner and so on. Reese answered, absolutely and they have looked into that so they dont see any necessary upgrades to that street related to this project. They have explored that. The one other point and its difficult to take (inaudible) an extended conversation because he certainly doesnt want to create a specter of a rush or something that isnt necessarily, he guessed, aboveboard. He does appreciate Ms. Caudills comments towards that effect and yes, perception is something they all need to be very aware of. But also, the speed of business is something that they all need to be very aware of. Every day that they dont start on that project is a day that they dont get that project done. So thats something that they take into account. Some projects do have harder deadlines than others but every project, every time they bring a lawyer into the room, that does cost money and the projects pay for those one way or another. So, its certainly not their intent to pressure or assume but theyve had significant conversation about this particular project. Certainly they have shown the appetite for others conversations and he still stands by his willingness to communicate those, as he can. But he does urge, if there is a way to expedite this process, it would be appreciated, Reese told the Council. Mr. Starkey added, he just thought that they might benefit, just from his experience with other Councils around the state, hes been doing this for 28 years and hes not aware of any Council that actually goes through three meetings to pass an ordinance. Now, they do three readings but they do the 2nd and 3rd reading on the second meeting, together, to pass an ordinance. Now it may be that they have local rules that require that and so that would be a different situation but in most communities or in every community hes ever been in, they take two meetings to pass an ordinance. They introduce it, they come back and pass it, 2nd and 3rd reading, on the second meeting. For what thats worth, he just thought they should know that, Starkey said. Reese added, and that may be something that the Chair or the Ordinance Committee wants to take on as a codification of a rule or not, for what thats worth. Being no further questions or comments from the audience or the Council, motion was made by French to suspend the rules on General Ordinance No. 5-2012. Motion was seconded by Brunner and carried by the following vote. Aye: Luzadder, Nevels, Thompson, Brunner, Smith, French and Batchelor. Nay: Troxell and Whitticker. Motion was then made by French, 2nd by Brunner to pass General Ordinance No. 5-2012.

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GENERAL ORDINANCE NO. 5-2012 Continued Motion carried by the following vote. Aye: Luzadder, Nevels, Thompson, Brunner, Smith, French and Batchelor. Nay: Troxell and Whitticker. At this time, Councilwoman Joselyn Whitticker said, before Mr. Reese takes his seat, he made a very important statement, that they would be discussing Y2K at the next meeting and she wants this to go on general record that they will be discussing YK and before Mr. Campbell. Councilwoman Madonna French said, excuse me, Mr. Campbell wont be on the agenda. Whitticker stated, before Mr. Campbell purchases the property. She doesnt believe any of them in this room have a problem with Darren Campbell. What they do have a problem with is some of the dealings and the lack of transparency that has gone on along with YK and thats what she wants to have discussed. Mrs. French said, they cant dictate to Mr. Campbell and the owners of that property when they can transact their deal. Thats not in their realm of responsibility or authority. They can have Mr. Reese come and speak to them about all the questions that they want but it cant be tied to they cant do their deal until they talk to Mr. Campbell. Thats not fair or Mr. Reese, thats not fair to Mr. Campbell and the progress of his project. Whitticker said, if she understood, what was just placed, Mr. Batchelor, on the floor that Councilwoman French suspended the rules so they would not go to a 3rd meeting so Mr. Campbell is effectively, if she understood what went down, what her motion was that she voted against, to move it from the 3rd. She was not voting against Mr. Campbell. What she was voting against was the suspending of the rules. Since they have done that, thats correct and thats what was on the floor. French told Whitticker, they had two motions on the floor, one was to suspend the rules and that passed 7-2. The second one was to pass the ordinance and that passed 7-2. The ordinance is passed. Whitticker replied, that is correct and she said, just a minute ago, they would be discussing YK without the ordinance of the Tree of Life. Councilman Paul Thompson told the Council, at their last Council meeting, they had a lady that came up to him after the Council meeting and was concerned about some unsafe structures around the property that they had just purchased NT on South Adams Street and intend to put a lot of money into it. To his knowledge, they have not.E for any help asked from the city as of yet but he went down to look at that piece of property on South Adams, hes speaking of Mrs. Wiseman and her husband, and they have a situation down there thats kind of a bad situation in regards to the neighborhood and the money that theyre putting in there. While he was there visiting with her, Larry Richardson was there as well and they were talking about some of the concerns there and he (Thompson) had concerns about some of the other areas in the City of Marion and Mr. Richardson gave him a copy of a list of properties owned by the City of Marion. At that time, he and Richardson took a ride around town and he saw a lot of unsafe structures and properties that need attention that are not on this list, fortunately for them as property owners. He gave this a lot of thought and he thought, they need to know what they are voting for or against when people come in and want to take possession of a residence or a vacant lot. Its very hard for all of them to get the time to go around the City of Marion and look at all these areas. Now, he sat down quickly today with this list and they, according to this list, are owners of 111 houses, 480 lots, one church, one funeral home and two large buildings and one apartment building. Now, they have passed ordinances to create clean-up programs. They have created Property Maintenance Ordinances and thats something that has been talked about for 22 years and never really been completed. The Administrations spent a lot of money, trying to clean up the city and get properties taken care of but, right now, were in a financial bind, as far as money to do this. He thinks that they all need to look at these properties together and he has arranged with Mr. Lawson, who is the Director of the Marion Transportation Department, to provide them with a bus and he can take as many as 20 people from the City Council, the Board of Works, he talked with them yesterday. Theres some members there that would like to take that trip. Hed like to invite the Police Chief, the Fire Chief, the news media and lets take a tour of the city and see what they do own and the conditions of it so that when its brought back to the Council, they will know whats going on in their city and they will be more comfortable with appropriating the money as needed for these areas that need to be addressed. So, he has passed out a list to everyone here this evening, as Council members, and this bus trip can be taken April 18th or the 25th. After 3:00 pm, the buses shut down and drivers will be available and the bus will be available. So, he would like for them all to get together and give him a date that they would be interested in going on this trip and seeing the city so that theyll all benefit from the sites of the city. Now he rode around on his motorcycle Sunday and he has no business out there on that thing but gas costs so much, thats the cheapest way he

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could get around and he stopped at a four-way stop and killed the motor and a lady said, go ahead grandpa and he thought he doesnt need to be out here so he would like to make this trip in a bus. So, if they would please, give him a date and lets make that trip together and lets try to do what they can for the City of Marion to make it better, Thompson said. Council President Don Batchelor asked, what are those two dates again? Thompson told him, April 18th or the 25th at 3:00 p.m. He thinks they would all benefit by that. Councilwoman Joselyn Whitticker said they have several things, number one, she believes some of the contractors in this room Saturday worked with Councilman Thompson and also Troxell in cleaning up one of their blighted areas and she would like them, as a Council, no shes not going to speak for the Council. Shes going to speak for Joselyn Whitticker to say thank you to the people who came and worked to clean up those areas and she does know, some of those areas had been called in and so on, but thats citizens having a need and a care and seeing that something is done in blighted areas and she too went with Councilman Thompson yesterday to look at some areas and so on. So she thinks thats something that needs to be discussed and they need to take that bus trip. They need to find the time, Whitticker commented. Councilman Fred Troxell said he wanted to thank Councilman Thompson and the gentlemen (inaudible), there were about 30 of them that helped clean up two areas in Marion thats been.. One property owners been complaining for eight years. Now this is a matter of record, hes going to say this. Its not about Democrats or Republicans and hes been ridiculed by some of the legal staff here in Marion, but anyway, hes talked to people in his ward and other parts of the city. Theyre very upset by the rules for getting problems addressed that the Mayor has imposed on is ward. They believe the Mayor is carrying out a personal vendetta against him but he is not only discriminating against him but against every citizen in his ward. Hes asked for the changed rules in writing for what people in his ward have to do. Hes still not gotten any information at all from this Administration. Hes done some checking and this is a violation of his First Amendment, Freedom of Speech. Its not only a violation of his First Amendment but the First Amendment of everyone that lives in his ward and this is a violation of the United States Constitution and as a Councilman, his vote affects everybody in the City of Marion, not just Ward One. If the Mayor .Ein N can get away with doing this to the citizens in his ward, he can get away with doing this to anybodyT the city and he calls on the Mayor to rescind these rules and treat everybody in the city equally. Now, hes always been man enough to face anybody he has a problem with and Mr. Luzadder reminded him here at a Council meeting to do his dirty laundry some place else. Its a violation of the law. Its not dirty laundry and he does have a right to speak up and he will speak up. But again, he wants to thank the gentlemen and the contractors that helped him and he appreciates them coming here tonight and its not his fault that they dont get to speak tonight. They did have that right and they deserve that right, Troxell said.

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Before the meeting adjourned, Council President Batchelor said, the contractors can meet with Councilman Smith and Councilman Thompson. They can meet here in the Chambers after the meeting has adjourned. And, just as a reminder to the Council members to go down to Clique Photography right across the railroad track here tomorrow between the hours of 9:30 am and 11:00 am to get their photos taken for the citys new website. Being no further business to come before the Council, on a motion by Thompson, 2nd by Brunner, the meeting adjourned. Time being 8:10 p.m.

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