TO: EMAIL: OUR REF: DATE: RE:
Brendan Knudson email@example.com SVB:AW:120622 9 August 2012
REPLY TO: YOUR REF: OUR EMAIL:
ELLEN G WHITE ESTATE INC v BRENDAN PAUL KNUDSON – FEDERAL COURT PROCEEDINGS (P) QUD 374/2012
Dear Mr Knudson We refer to the above proceedings and our correspondence of 7 August 2012. We confirm that we have now received a response from Justice Greenwood and the orders made on 2 August 2012 will be extended until 4 September 2012. We now attach a copy of the correspondence received from Justice Greenwood for your reference. We have attended to the filing of further orders in the Federal Court of Australia to facilitate the extension of the 2 August 2012 Orders until 4 September 2012. We draw your particular attention to the effect of the Orders, which can be summarised as follows: 1. You are restrained from publishing, selling, distributing, copying or advertising for sale any documents or copies of documents obtained by you, directly or indirectly from our client’s database of writings of Ellen G White and/or the Ellen G. White Research Centres; Furthermore you are restrained from destroying or deleting, or parting with possession of, any documents in your possession or control: (a) (b) (c) That are documents or copies or documents that you have obtained from our client’s database of writings of Ellen G White or from any Ellen G. White Research Centres; That are arbitrations of the documents referred to in sub paragraph (a) above; Relating to the accessing of the relevant documents, this would include any documentation such as correspondence exchanged between yourself and other individuals who assisted you in obtaining the documentation; Relating to the copying or downloading of any of the documents; Relating to publishing, selling, distributing or advertising or sale of any documents.
2 Brendan Knudson 9 August 2012
If you breach these orders you are liable to imprisonment and/or punishment for contempt. If we become aware of you breaching these orders we will be notifying the Australian Customs Service. The reason we will be notifying the Australian Customs Service is so that you will be detained immediately upon return to Australia whenever that maybe. In accordance with the Federal Court Rules our client will be attending to the filing of a Claim and Statement of Claim in the abovenamed proceedings by 16 August 2012. In these proceedings our client will make claim for damages against you which will include but not be limited to amounts for legal costs, damages suffered by our client as a result of your illegal accessing of our client’s materials, an account of profits, etc. We are instructed that our client will also be seeking that you be permanently restrained from dealing with in anyway any materials of our client that you have obtained illegally. Our client will also be seeking orders that you be compelled to provide all documents you hold in relation to your accessing of our client’s materials illegally, including but not limited to, identifying all individuals and entities that have assisted you in accomplishing this task. We are instructed that our client would not proceed further against you and not make any claim for damages against you if you agree to the following: 1. You provide to our client any documents in your possession or control: (a) That of documents, or copies of documents, obtained by you, directly or indirectly, from our client, i.e. all illegally obtained writings of Ellen G White; (b) That are abduction of the documents referred to in sub paragraph a and all the various forms in which they exist (such as computers, iPads, Smartphones, zip drives, CDs, flash drives, etc); (c) Relating to the illegal obtainment of the documents from our client’s database and/or by any other means; (d) Relating to the copying or downloading of any document from our clients database and/or its Research Centres; (e) Relating to publishing, selling, distributing or advertising for sale of: i. Any documents or copies of documents referred to in sub paragraph a and b obtained from our client’s database and/or its Research Centres;
ii. Any documents or that are abduction of the documents referred to in sub paragraph e (i) (f) Relating to use of any trademark of our client, including ELLEN WHITE, EGW and ELLEN G WHITE; (g) Relating to Internet Websites and Domain Name accounts; 2. That you are permanently restrained from publishing, selling, distributing or copying or advertising for sale any documents, or copies of documents, illegally obtained by you, directly or indirectly from our client including any works from its database, its Research Centres, the Biblical Research Institute of
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the General Conference (specifically the Daniel and Revelation 7 Volume Set) and the Seventh-day Adventist Church; 3. 4. 5. Providing the details of any and all individuals and entities that have assisted you in obtaining all documents from our client illegally from its database and Research Centres. Providing satisfactory assurances of cooperation in any legal proceedings that might ensue, including arranging for acceptance of service of process for subpoenas for documents and testimony, Providing satisfactory assurances of cooperation that third parties will be advised regarding the illegal actions undertaken and that unauthorized distribution and sale of our client’s works must cease.
As you can tell from the investigations undertaken by our client, are detailed in the material provided to you on 7 August 2012, our client has a significant amount of evidence to prove that you have obtained materials illegally from our client. Furthermore it is without question, in our opinion, that copyright subsists in the works that you have obtained illegally. As a result you have breached our client’s copyright rights in the relevant works you have stolen. You have also acted illegally in hacking our client’s database. Our client is mindful of reaching a settlement with all individuals that have worked with you in undertaking the illegal activities that you have. Our client will identify these individuals one way or the other and if forced to, will commence legal proceedings against them also. Ideally our client does not wish to commence legal proceedings against any further individuals and as such would welcome those individuals forming part of any settlement agreement to be reached with you on the terms outlined above. The above settlement proposal is open for acceptance by you for a period of 7 days after which time it will lapse. Should you fail to accept the settlement proposal outlined above, our client rely on this correspondence to recover its legal costs from you in the proceedings moving forward. Please note that these legal costs will be significant and in excess of $200,000.00 if the matter proceeds to a Trial stage. We look forward to hearing from you. Should you have any queries please contact the writer. The writer will attempt to call you on 0240201015 at 4 pm 10 August 2012 Brisbane Australia time. If you do not understand any of the material that has been filed in the abovenamed proceedings or this correspondence we strongly recommend that you engage the services of a lawyer immediately. We can then liaise directly with your lawyer in relation to reaching an early resolution of this matter. Yours faithfully FERGUSON CANNON
PERSONAL ASSISTANT: ANGELA WILSON
August 13 Dear Samuel, We have put together a counter-offer to your client to begin our side of negotiations. The document is attached to this email as well as a zip file with supporting documentation for the perspective with which we view the White Estate as found in the document. I look forward to hearing from you Regards
August 11, 2012 Dear Mr Barber, I thank you for the documents you have forwarded to me from your client, the Ellen G. White Estate, Inc. regarding affidavits and proceedings thus far. I am also thankful for the discussion we could have this morning (my time), to clarify some of the concerns of your client. As I stated in our phone conversation, I have authority to speak on behalf of all who are members of the online group, SDAnonymous. Therefore I will be speaking for both myself and that group in outlining how we best believe this matter can be resolved. Position of SDAnonymous towards the Ellen G. White Estate, Inc. and the Writings of Ellen White The members of SDAnonymous represent a wide cross-section of Seventh-day Adventism – culturally, geographically, professionally, and ideologically. We are composed of members across all 6 major continents, representing about a dozen different cultural backgrounds. I am the only nonmember of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, yet I still self-identify as Seventh-day Adventist. There are Church employees, volunteers, students, and laity represented among our movement. Doctrinally, we hold to a variety of views on both sides of major issues, such as Righteousness by Faith, Women’s Ordination, the Trinity, etc. We are united in spite of these diversities by a desire to see the full writings of Ellen White readily available to laity and researchers of the Church. We respect the Church structure, even those who hold different views. We realise that it is impossible for accurate conclusions to be reached on the belief and teachings of Ellen White towards practically anything without access to the resources to engage in thorough hermeneutic analysis. Let me say with emphasis that I and the members of SDAnonymous have a high level of respect for the position the Ellen G. White Estate are entrusted to by God as trustees over the writings of Ellen White. We are neither hostile nor antagonistic to the Ellen G. White Estate, Inc. as it seeks to promote the study of the life and writings of Ellen G. White. Where we disagree with its policies we do not harbour any ill-will to the staff and trustees or even the incorporated institution. Even in those instances where we believe they have operated in ways which betray their sacred trust, we do not condemn them and have avoided, in all online ministry performed by SDAnonymous, to promote a negative image of the Ellen G. White Estate, Inc. Contrary to their public statements to the affirmative, the Ellen G. White Estate, Inc, was not created by the last will and testament of Ellen G. White. It is a creation of five men who were named in said will, 20 years after the will is dated. Also, contrary to the popular mindset, the Ellen G. White Estate, Inc, does not stand as owners of the writings of Ellen G. White. While they hold possession of the letters and manuscripts and copyright over all works published since 1923, as custodians or trustees they exist as an entity to carry out the wishes of Ellen G. White towards the intended beneficiaries of her writings. In terms of ownership, the writings of Ellen G. White ultimately belong to the beneficiaries. Ellen White’s last will and testament is not explicit in naming the beneficiaries of her writings, however it is very implicit. This will states that, “Then my said trustees shall use the overplus for the improvement of the books and manuscripts held in trust by them, and herein provided; for the securing and printing of new translations thereof; for the printing of compilations from my
manuscripts.” Ellen White, in a letter to one of the future trustees named in her will, wrote in 1907, “My writings are kept on file in the office, and even though I should not live, these words that have been given to me by the Lord will still have life and will speak to the people.” (Letter 371, to F. M. Wilcox, October 23, 1907) Here can be seen that the implicit intended beneficiaries of Ellen G. White’s will, in terms of her writings “kept on file in the office” are “the people” which we can interpret as all who should read “these words that have been given… by the Lord”. We at SDAnonymous believe that anyone who holds to a high respect of the mission and message of Ellen G. White as a messenger of the Lord is numbered among these beneficiaries and it is for the benefit of all these for whom the Ellen G. White Estate, Inc. exists. In the U.S., as of 2003, the copyright for the unpublished writings of Ellen G. White, including all the manuscripts and letters held in trust by the Ellen G. White Estate, Inc. now reside formally in the public domain with rights matching the true ownership. According to 17 U.S.C. § 303 of the Copyright Act 1976, “Copyright in a work created before January 1, 1978, but not theretofore in the public domain or copyrighted, subsists from January 1, 1978, and endures for the term provided by section 302. In no case, however, shall the term of copyright in such a work expire before December 31, 2002; and, if the work is published on or before December 31, 2002, the term of copyright shall not expire before December 31, 2047.” The implications of this section for unpublished works such as those of Ellen G. White is that because the entire manuscript and letter collection was unpublished by December 31, 2002, they passed into the public domain on January 1, 2003 (see http://www.copyright.gov/pr/pdomain.html). The registrations held by the White Estate for compilations taken from the Manuscripts and Letters of Ellen White do not create a copyright in the pre-existing material, according to U.S. Law. 17 U.S.C. §103 states, “The copyright in a compilation or derivative work extends only to the material contributed by the author of such work, as distinguished from the preexisting material employed in the work, and does not imply any exclusive right in the preexisting material. The copyright in such work is independent of, and does not affect or enlarge the scope, duration, ownership, or subsistence of, any copyright protection in the preexisting material.” Evidence of the Intent and Ability of the Ellen G. White Estate, Inc. to Release all Writings by 2002. We are aware through our investigations that the Ellen G. White Estate, Inc. had digitised the entire Manuscript and Letter file by the year 1990, when an announcement was published in Adventist Currents, July 16, 1990, stating, “The unpublished Ellen White writings (letters, manuscripts, diarys (sic)) have been stored electronically by her estate and can be searched by computer for key words or combinations of words. But you cannot purchase or rent this unpublished library – no matter how inspired or inspiring it is.” The affidavit of Darryl Thompson confirmed that this digitisation was completed by 1988. Queries about the unpublished writings of Ellen White between the years 1995-2001 were met with the response that they were intended to be published around that time. William Fagal (then Director of the Ellen G. White Estate Branch Office at Andrews University) responded to a query on August 25th, 1995, “By the way, we expect in a couple of years to have the whole letter and manuscript file available on a CD-ROM, so those intending to do extensive work in the letters and manuscripts will be able to do it right on their own computers.”
Again in 1997 William Fagal wrote in reply to another query on December 2nd, “Sometime this coming year the White Estate will publish a CD-ROM that has the entire letter and manuscript collection on it. That way anyone can read and search everything that we have without having to come to a White Estate facility.” Replying to yet another query on April 9th, 1998, Fagal said, “The White Estate is now engaged in developing a CD-ROM that will have all of the letters and manuscripts of Mrs. White on it. We had thought it might be available by the end of 1997, but that proved too ambitious. Now we hope it will be out before the end of 1998. Even that goal may be beyond our reach--time will tell. But we are moving toward completing the project as quickly as possible.” In a book prepared on behalf of the Ellen G. White Estate, we find this answer to have been declared publically in 1998. “With the passage of time, and increased research needs, the release policy of the White Estate was changed from asking, ‘Why should it be published?’ to ‘Why not publish it?’ This eventually led to the decision to make all of Ellen White’s letters and manuscripts available on CDROM.” - Herbert E Douglass, Messenger of the Lord (Pacific Press, 1998), 529. The preface of this book contains a recommendation by “The Board of Trustees of the Ellen G. White Estate, Inc.” As late as the end of 2001, the evidence suggests that this was the intention of the White Estate to release the entire contents of the letters and manuscripts of Ellen White to researchers. On December 10th, 2001, Director Fagal wrote again that, “Yes, the White Estate is working on producing a CD-ROM of the letters and manuscripts. (I have not heard that the plan is to combine this on one CD with the published writings.) Currently there is no schedule for its release. The White Estate has been understaffed for years, and there is much yet to be done on the project. But we do hope to move it forward. I just can't predict when it will be ready.” Now, in the affidavit of Darryl Thompson, paragraph 37, we have direct evidence that the work on this CD-ROM was completed in 2002 as one of cost estimations includes “Conversion to Folio Infobase”, which is the format used by the White Estate to release their Complete Published Works CD-ROM. Had the White Estate carried out their intention and published the CD-ROM in 2002, declared for over half a decade in private communication and in print, they would have retained copyright of the entire Manuscripts and Letters of Ellen White for another 70 years. At some point in 2003, it appears that the decision to release the writings on searchable CD-ROM was superseded by a new plan to release print volumes of the Letters and Manuscripts with historical annotation. The first volume was announced for release as early as 2005 when the Adventist Review carried a story on the work of the White Estate with the words, “The work of annotating all of Ellen White's unpublished letters and manuscripts was started in 2003, with the goal of publishing the first volume in late 2005. It will cover the years 1845 to 1859. Subsequent volumes will appear as they are ready.” (Jim R Nix, Adventist Review, June 30, 2005) The annotation project has now blown out to a decade for only 13 years of manuscripts and letters, from 1847-1859. Considering that there are some single years in Ellen White’s later literary career which rival the output of these 13 years combined, it is highly probable that it will be many more decades before the entire series is completed. It has been stated that the pace will increase as the foundations have already been laid for the project. However, given that estimates increased from 2 years to complete the first volume to an entire decade, it seems that it will still be a very long while before the writings are in the hands of the people who greatly desire them.
There is no reason why an annotation project should not be engaged upon. Historical research is a good thing and can only help understanding. However, there is also no reason why the release of the remainder of Ellen White’s writings must wait for an annotation. My Personal History with the Ellen G. White Estate Inc. and the SDA Church - A Case Study. I write this account as symptomatic of a larger issue which many other members of SDAnonymous can relate to along with hundreds of individuals who have contacted the Unpublished Ellen White ministry in the short months since it has been active. My personal views on the trinity are not shared by all in SDAnonymous, but all agree with me that the use of the Ellen G. White Estate, Inc. by the Seventh-day Adventist Church as a means of answering doctrinal matters is an abuse of its trusted position as an unbiased custodian of Ellen White’s writings. I was baptised as a member of the Seventh-day Adventist Church on August 21, 1999 after attending Bible Studies through the Adventist High School, Northpine Christian College in Dakabin, Australia. Through my Bible Studies I came to believe in the majority of truths that the Seventh-day Adventist Church taught and came to appreciate the writings of Ellen White as instructive for Christians in these days. The doctrine of the Trinity was not taught in detail at this time. I attended the Adventist tertiary institute, Avondale College in 2000-2001 where I became acquainted with the Ellen White Research Center there. I had a very friendly relationship with then Director of that Center, Allan Lindsay and was taught by him and visited with him often. In 2005, while volunteering in youth ministry in the Seventh-day Adventist Church in South Queensland, through giving Bible studies with an ex-World-wide Church of God lady, I was asked questions about the trinity doctrine held by the Seventh-day Adventist Church that I could not honestly answer. I came to understand, from the Bible, a different view of Christology and Pneumatology which did not detract from the Deity of Christ or the Personality of the Holy Spirit, yet which answered all the questions. Through research, I discovered that the Seventh-day Adventist Church (officially organised 1863) was not initially Trinitarian, but that the majority of leaders and members of the Seventh-day Adventist Church held different Christological and Pneumatological views during the first 50 years since its inception between 1846-1848. When I shared and questioned my mentors in the Church at the time, I was instructed that such views were no longer tolerated in the Church and that I should accept that God is a mystery and that the doctrine of the Trinity explains that mystery. The leading theologian of the South-Queensland Conference, now President of the same, held a 3 hour “Study” with me where his entire argument was centred around the idea that “we can’t know God, but He’s a trinity.” I was not able to comfortably accept such self-defeating logic. At this time, I was handed two compilations of Ellen White’s statements purporting to affirm the Trinity doctrine. The first compilation is a small section of the book Evangelism, published 1946. The second compilation is found in Appendix A of the Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary, Volume 7A, published 1970, but was originally published in Ministry Magazine, May 1956 and appearing in Seventh-day Adventists Answer Questions on Doctrine, published 1957. Many, but not all, of the quotes from the latter collection were compiled to first appear in Ministry Magazine, May 1945.
It was presented to me that I had to either accept the trinity doctrine as truth or to give up my belief in Ellen White as an inspired writer. At no time did anyone seek to answer my Bible-based questions on the Trinity doctrine. I struggled with these two alternatives until research allowed me to understand the contextual setting of the statements. I found that many other statements made by Ellen White could not be harmonised with the Trinitarian hypothesis and reflected the belief system of the other non-trinitarian founders of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, including her husband and two sons. I discovered early on that the two sets of statements mentioned above were initially compiled with the sole purpose of eradicating any disagreement to the Trinity doctrine in the Seventh-day Adventist Church in the 1940s. Evidence from the correspondence of the Seventh-day Adventist Ministerial Association founder, LeRoy Froom shows that pressure from the Seventh-day Adventist leadership was exerted upon the White Estate to this end. He wrote in his letter to fellow Ministerial Association member, Roy A. Anderson, in 1966, “I am sure that we are agreed in evaluating the book, Evangelism, as one of the great contributions in which the Ministerial Association had a part back in those days. You know what it did with men in the Columbia Union who came face-to-face with the clear, unequivocal statements of [Ellen White] on the Deity of Christ, personality of the Holy Spirit, the Trinity, and the like. They either had to lay down their arms and accept those statements, or else they had to reject [Ellen White]. I know that you and Miss Kleuser and I had considerable to do with the selection of these things under the encouragement of men like Elder Branson [President of the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists from 1950-1954] who felt that the earlier concept of the White Estate brethren on this book on Evangelism was not adequate.” (Letter dated January 18, 1966) My decision to hold to belief in Ellen White, accepting all that she said and refusing to ignore the inconsistencies in what was presented to me by leadership of the Church resulted in my ostracisation within the Seventh-day Adventist Church. For a short period of 2 months, due to the social upheaval I experienced as a result of discrimination over honestly held convictions, I entertained grave disapproval of the Church and asked for my membership to be removed when I was threatened with disfellowshipment. I have since moved past the pain of this treatment and regretted my decision to drop my membership, wishing only to rejoin the Seventh-day Adventist Church. In the time since 2006, I have focused my efforts in both Biblical investigation and defence of selfconsistent teachings on Christology and Pneumatology, as well as study of the history of the Seventh-day Adventist Church with one main area being the writings of Ellen White and their context. Among those things which my research has uncovered is that the context of many of the compiled statements in favour of the Trinity doctrine presents a different reading and sometimes reverses the meaning as Ellen White is shown to be interacting with the writings of Trinitarians and modifying their words to reflect her personal theology. This research is very difficult with the monopoly that the White Estate holds over the out-of-copyright and unpublished letters and manuscripts of Ellen White. Research of other non-trinitarian Seventh-day Adventists has demonstrated instances where Ellen G. White Estate, Inc. editorial staff have intentionally altered statements to reflect a stronger Trinitarian bias. In the 1995 devotional compilation, Ye Shall Receive Power, sections from an article published in Signs of the Times Magazine, September 17, 1899 were altered from impersonal pronouns for the Holy Spirit (it) to the personal pronoun (Him).
I have found that the White Estate staff are generally friendly and respectful of requests. Staff in Australia have been suspicious and at times uncooperative, hindering research based on the bias with which they view my personal theological perspective of research. One major problem which characterises contact with many of the White Estate research centers is that they are understaffed and queries can take days and sometimes even weeks to be responded to. I have often been frustrated by the large obstacles to research met within the White Estate system. I have presented this reflection on my own history with the SDA Church and the Ellen G. White Estate, Inc. as one who holds to the belief that Ellen White was a messenger of God, but who differs from current SDA Theology. Most people in SDAnonymous (more than half of which are Trinitarians), have revealed similar frustrations in Ellen G. White studies due to the unreleased writings which hinder research. On many different issues, there is a desire to search everything she wrote for thorough comparison. Summary of Views of SDAnonymous and Myself Regarding the Ellen G. White Estate, Incorporated. 1. We hold to a belief that Ellen G. White was a messenger of God to the Seventh-day Adventist Church and that her writings are instructive to people today. 2. We accept as fact that Ellen G. White, in her last will and testament, intended her writings to be held in trust by five men “and their successors”. The five men she left this trust to later established the Ellen G. White Estate, Incorporated. 3. We believe that the level of Ellen White’s inspiration does not extend to those who hold her writings in trust. 4. We respect that the Ellen G. White Estate, Inc. have a solemn responsibility of custodianship over the writings of Ellen White to serve the beneficiaries of that will. 5. We understand that the beneficiaries of Ellen White’s writings are all the people who hold her writings as inspired. 6. We believe the Ellen G. White Estate, Inc. has moved from being an unbiased custodian of Ellen White’s writings to allowing itself to be used by the SDA Church in doctrinal politics since at least the 1940s. This has included the compilation and even alteration of statements to serve the doctrinal directions of the leadership. 7. We accept as fact that the White Estate recognised that the limitations against release had passed and that the time had come to release all the writings for research needs in the late 1990s. 8. We accept as fact that the means to release these writings commercially was achieved sometime in 2002. 9. We accept as fact that the copyright on the letters and manuscripts of Ellen White passed into the public domain in the United States on January 1, 2003. 10. We believe that the continued delay in releasing these writings perpetuates questions that members have as to context of partially published statements, stifles thorough hermeneutic research in Ellen White studies, and fuels suspicions of those hostile to Ellen White that there are statements to be embarrassed about. 11. We believe that all men have a God-given right to research and discover the meaning of God’s messages for themselves and that the general agreement upon both trustees and
beneficiaries from the late 1990s onwards points to the fact that the writings are now overdue for being in the hands of those who desire them. 12. We believe that while there is great value in a historical annotation project, the current schedule of release (or lack thereof) is unacceptable to the majority of the Seventh-day Adventist constituency who hold the writings of Ellen White in high regard and desire free research access to these works without having to be located near an Ellen G. White Estate Research Center. Response to the Offer Extended on behalf of the Ellen G. White Estate, Incorporated, dated August 9, 2012. Pursuant to our discussion this morning, I repeat that my attention to the orders of the Federal Court are based upon respect for the Australian Court System and for the Ellen G. White Estate, Incorporated, even though I am legally outside the jurisdiction of the orders. I am seeking to carry out these orders to the best of my knowledge in a show of good faith in the face of negotiations, though I am responding to some of the legal action taken in the United States regarding the DMCA takedown notices I have received. SDAnonymous, in furtherance of the good faith desire for amicable resolution with the Ellen G. White Estate, Inc. have ceased all active promotion of their Unpublished Ellen White Ministry, but have not entirely removed it. With regards to the terms of the initial offer of the Ellen G. White Estate, Inc, one non-negotiable point which I will mention at the outset involves the identification of other members of SDAnonymous. As mentioned in our phone conversation, it was intentional that all clues identified me as being involved with the actions regarding the Database hacking even though I was not personally involved with that part of operations. This is because I am the only person who does not hold membership with the Seventh-day Adventist Church, subject to internal discipline. If the Ellen G. White Estate, Inc. sincerely wishes to negotiate, it should not seek to uncover the identities of anyone else. However, its concerns regarding the existence of SDAnonymous will be answered in our counter-offer. With regards to the extensive requests for the provision of documents obtained from the Database, I cannot comply with many of the particulars personally. SDAnonymous understands the motivation and concerns behind these requests and we will seek to address them adequately in our counteroffer. Let it be said that we have a very large collection of manuscripts and letters obtained through scanning and copying under normal research provisions at Ellen G. White Estate Research Centers around the world. As a personal note, I would like to reflect that the specific mentions of the “Biblical Research Institute of the General Conference” and “specifically the Daniel and Revelation 7 Volume Set” were rather surprising in the notice. I would like to point out that neither I, nor any member of SDAnonymous, digitised these books or uploaded them onto the internet. I found them online in the course of responding to the questions regarding the Sanctuary (my personal hard copies of several volumes are of no help to me in Australia) and because they were in Copyright I acted responsibly to inform the BRI of their existence, even sending copies of them to the BRI. Counter-Offer from SDAnonymous toward Amicable Resolution to Proceedings
We at SDAnonymous have presented our philosophy and concerns regarding release of the complete writings of Ellen G. White. We have also presented our evidence, including that supplied by the Ellen G. White Estate, Inc. through affidavits that this was the intention until 2002 when the material was prepared to be released commercially. Since launching the Unpublished Ellen White ministry, we have been swamped with messages from Seventh-day Adventists. About half have been supportive of the ministry, and this includes a very large number of people who have availed themselves of our Ministry Store. Another half of messages have come from those who like the idea of having access to the complete writings, but are uncomfortable getting these outside the official channel of the Ellen G. White Estate, Inc. One thing in common among all correspondents is that there is a very real, wide and present desire out there for these writings among those who hold Ellen White in high esteem. We understand the belief of the Ellen G. White Estate, Inc. regarding presumed copyright to the writings of Ellen White. We have presented strong evidence that copyright does not subsist in the originating country, and therefore in most other countries. We have also hoped to point out what we believe to be the original duty of the Ellen G. White Estate, Inc. in regards to the beneficiaries of the will, the people who wish to read counsel given by God to Ellen White for the Church. We understand the desire of the Ellen G. White Estate, Inc. to gain financial reward for the estimated $145,500 spent in digitising the writings for the original Folio Database release intended for 2002. We also understand that the huge figure $1 Million estimate for the Roland Karlman Annotation project, and 10 years of effort also deserve a reward. (Estimations here are according to Darryl Thompson’s affidavit, paragraph 37.) We understand the concerns of the Ellen G. White Estate, Inc. regarding what they believe to belong to them. This includes knowledge of the computer file systems. SDAnonymous has no interest in any special software systems relating to the online database. The only concern of SDAnonymous was the content of the writings missing from their pooled resources. We understand that the White Estate does not wish to see a repeat of the actions of SDAnonymous in the future and that its request for identification of those involved is to safeguard against any repeat attempts to overcome Technological Protection Measures in the future. We hope that our proposed actions will satisfy the underlying requests behind the proposal of the Ellen G. White Estate, Inc. to Brendan Knudson on August 9, 2012. SDAnonymous is willing to take the following steps should the Ellen G. White Estate, Inc. agree to actions which would address our own concerns, raised in the earlier sections of this document. 1. Provide a copy of all information obtained from the https://egwwritings.org database and destroy all copies held by any in SDAnonymous other than those obtained through legitimate research requests and/or copying made at Research Centers. 2. Provide a detailed explanation of the measures used to gain access to the database for the purposes of future protection, as well as other vulnerabilities we know of. 3. Disband SDAnonymous and cease all online activity promoting the independent release and sale of the complete letters and manuscripts of Ellen White.
4. Promote, as one final act, to all our supporters so far, the projects of the Ellen G. White Estate, Inc. to release the complete letters and manuscripts of Ellen White and to digitise other holdings relating to Adventist Heritage. 5. Make an online apology on http://egwletters.webs.com to the Ellen G. White Estate, Inc. for working independently of the official channel of the Church. 6. Channel existing funds received by SDAnonymous into the Ellen G. White Estate, Inc translation work as well as the project outlined in point “C” of the expectations of the White Estate below. In addition, I, Brendan Knudson, am willing to perform these additional actions on condition of actions of the Ellen G. White Estate, Inc. which address SDAnonymous concerns. 7. Provide details for the online location of the infringing copies of the 7-Volume Daniel and Revelation Committee Series, if it hasn’t already been located. 8. Make a transfer gift of the following domain names to the Ellen G. White Estate, Inc.: i. ellenwhiteletters.com ii. ellenwhitemanuscripts.com iii. unpublishedellenwhite.com iv. ellenwhiteunpublished.com In return, we would expect to see the following actions on the part of the Ellen G. White Estate Inc. A. That the Ellen G. White Estate, Inc. enter into a binding undertaking that the complete letters and manuscripts of Ellen G. White will be released by the end of 2012 in searchable Folio Infobase format, both as a CD-ROM purchasable at Adventist Book Centers around the world and downloadable online via donation at http://partner.egwwritings.org a. That all manuscripts and letters in the files are represented in this project. b. That the Ellen G. White Estate provide information online regarding the reassigning of numbering and years associated with letters and manuscripts for the purposes of tracking where missing numbers exist. B. That the Ellen G. White Estate, Inc. provide the ability for members who purchase the Folio Infobase of the complete letters and manuscripts to register for permissions to access and search these writings online at https://egwwritings.org C. That the Ellen G. White Estate, Inc add the following materials to their online Database and the next edition of the Complete Published Writings CD-ROM for a new release in 2013: a. The text of the original 30-volume Testimony series. b. The text of the first edition of Steps to Christ. c. The text of original editions of works such as Desire of Ages prior to the 1940’s editing. (SDAnonymous will provide the text of these editions at the request of the Ellen G. White Estate, Inc.) D. That the Ellen G. White Estate, Inc. in conjunction with the Branch Offices and Research Centers (including the Center for Adventist Research at Andrews University) : a. begin an online page to receive donations for the digitisation of the letters and manuscripts in (1) the Ellen White Office Received Letters File, (2) the W. C. White
Letter File, and (3) the Special Collections files contained at these centers. This page should specify specific needs so individuals can direct donations to specific equipment or projects. b. begin work on these as an open source project where these letters and manuscripts in possession by the Estate (most of which will also be public domain) are made available on the internet as soon as they are processed for perusal of researchers. i. The letters and manuscripts to be first made available online as direct scans. ii. Then volunteers who may apply (without having to be in proximity to Research Centers) to be part of the project may key in and proof-read the text of these writings from anywhere in the world and be submitted to a searchable index. c. make provisions for volunteers to attend to the scanning work in the Branch Offices and Research Centers which possess holdings of these writings as well as to apply from around the world to aid in typing up or checking the works as they are prepared for searchable reference. (SDAnonymous will channel existing funds received by the ministry into this project and will direct those who have desired to volunteer to such a work to make application to the Branch Offices and Research Centers which are a part of this project.) E. To cease claiming copyright over the letters and manuscripts now lying in the public domain. This will protect the Ellen G. White Estate, Inc. from the criminal offence of making fraudulent copyright notices under 17 U.S.C. § 506(c). F. To discontinue the policy of limiting researchers’ requests to 10-20 documents total loan in the case of out of copyright letters and manuscripts. This issue may be entirely done away with in lieu of the release of the complete letters and manuscripts on CD-ROM. G. To enter into a binding undertaking, in conjunction with the Biblical Research Institute of the General Conference, to make the 7 Volume Daniel and Revelation Committee Series available on the “Recent Authors” section of the “Words of the Adventist Pioneers” available on the next release of the Complete Published Works CD-ROM. (This is added due to the inclusion of the Biblical Research Institute as part of these proceedings and with a desire to see the valuable work of that Committee of benefit to more researchers.) I and SDAnonymous are eager to resolve this through mediation as much as possible. We do not wish to see any embarrassment come to the Ellen G. White Estate, Inc. through attempted legal proceedings and associated publicity. Nor do we wish to see money that should be better spent on translation projects and other ministry projects spent on litigation. Moreover we are happy to comply with any confidentiality arrangements on these proceedings. We hope that we have identified the concerns of the White Estate and have presented a path which honours those concerns while also honouring the concerns of beneficiaries to Ellen White’s writings as represented by SDAnonymous and hundreds of people who have contacted our ministry. By taking on the actions we have set forth in this document, the Ellen G. White Estate, Inc. would be covering all the projects for which SDAnonymous exist thus negating our reason for continuing. We are praying that God’s will be done in these negotiations. Mr Barber, if you have further need to discuss with me, please let me know 24 hours in advance.
Kindest Regards Brendan Knudson The Republic of Armenia Kotayq District, Dzhrvezh Village, Street 42, House 6 Telephone (+612) 4020 1015 P.S. I am attaching also documents which are referenced in this Proposal with the email.
August 17 Dear Samuel, I have tried several times to contact you via email and phone. I have no acknowledgement of receipt of the documents I sent you with aims towards negotiation. Am I to interpret the filing of action as a breakdown of the desire to negotiate on the part of your clients? How your client feels about negotiation will influence what documents I submit to the Federal Court in response to the Statement of Claim. Regards -Brendan Knudson
Dear Brendan Thank you for your email. Please do not think that my client is not interested in negotiating. The material that was provided to you today had to be filed yesterday. I am waiting on instructions on how to respond to your negotiation correspondence. As soon as those instructions are to hand I will forward correspondence to you.
Kind regards Samuel Barber Director
TO: EMAIL: OUR REF: DATE: RE:
Brendan Knudson firstname.lastname@example.org SVB:AW:120622 23 August 2012
REPLY TO: YOUR REF: OUR EMAIL:
ELLEN G WHITE ESTATE INC v BRENDAN KNUDSON
Dear Mr Knudson We refer to the above proceedings and previous correspondence. We are instructed that our client is still willing to resolve all matters that are the subject of the abovenamed proceedings and various other issues that are of concern to our client on the grounds outlined in our correspondence of 9 August 2012. We are instructed to reject the Offer of Settlement that you have made to our client. We once again suggest that you accept the settlement by the letter presented by our client in the attached correspondence dated 9 August 2012 that we sent to you. We suggest that you attend to this prior to the Hearing on 4 September 2012 as this will go to our client not pursuing you for costs. We expressively reserve our client’s rights to recover any loss and damage our client suffers as a result of your actions including but not limited to legal costs. Yours faithfully FERGUSON CANNON
PERSONAL ASSISTANT: ANGELA WILSON
August 23 Dear Samuel, I have attached a response to your Client's rejection of our first Negotiations Counter-Offer. I draw your attention to the two requests we make of you in the last paragraph as to how we would like this to proceed. Regards -Brendan Knudson
August 23, 2012 Dear Mr Barber, Thank you for sending through the response of your Client, the Ellen G. White Estate, Inc. I can personally say that I am very disappointed in the attitude of your client towards negotiations. We sent you a fair and equitable offer which satisfied the intent behind your Client’s initial Offer of Settlement. As Christians, your Client has already breached Biblical instruction (1 Corinthians 6) and the instruction of the person in whose trust they are bound by engaging in Legal Action as a first resort (3SM, chapter 37). To this they are compounding their guilt by taking a casual attitude towards negotiations while giving lip-service to the desire to settle peaceably. We are more than open to a series of negotiations in which movement is made towards a middle-ground. I point out that your Client’s first Offer of Settlement was received by myself on Thursday the 9th of August. I spoke to you on Saturday the 11th of August to receive some clarification on key points. Our counter-offer was prepared by myself with the aid of a few others and is dated the same day. After a few changes by members of SDAnonymous, it was approved unanimously by those who were able to be reached and sent to you on Monday the 13th of August. SDAnonymous are located all over the world and acted promptly, showing the serious attitude we have towards negotiations. Your Client’s response to our Counter-Offer took a lot longer, in contrast. Moreover, instead of showing a desire to reach a middle-ground, it seems that they have thrown out any of the fair concerns we have raised. By pointing to their first Offer of Settlement rather than sending a modification which interacts with our own, it would appear that they are not supporting their stated desire to settle peaceably. I am instructed to inform you, on behalf of myself and SDAnonymous, that refusal to take negotiations seriously is not in the best interests of your Client on many fronts. From myself, personally, they have no hope to receive any damages at all, should they actually win any of the litigation they have started, as I am heavily invested in several projects and do not have anything of material value for them to take. We are hoping that you might be able to urge upon your client the futility of engaging in costly legal action which has no hopes of reward or even recovering costs, even if victorious, when there is a chance to negotiate. We would appreciate if you would do two things for us, Mr Barber: 1. Send me a confirmation of receipt as soon as you receive this email. 2. Confer with your Client and reply within 48 hours of receipt as to whether your Client is serious about the desire to negotiate - whether they are willing to come to the table, or whether they see negotiation as a one-sided affair. We strongly desire to settle peaceably, as the teachings of the Bible and Ellen White are in favour of. Knowing your Client’s attitude is imperative for us to choose which strategy to move ahead with. Yours faithfully, Brendan Knudson
August 24 Dear Brendan I confirm receipt of your email. In my opinion, it would assist negotiations if you could identify which aspects of my client’s offer are acceptable to you and SDAnonymous. It will then be clear as to what concessions my client will have to make to satisfy you. Thank you for your assistance in this regard. Kind regards
Dear Samuel, I have prepared a new document here which addresses the Offer of your Client one point at a time and ties them to the points in the Counter-Offer of what SDAnonymous and myself are prepared to comply with. I hope this assists you and your Client in seeing that we have engaged with the desires of your Client and that in some cases we have exceeded them. It is our own concerns and wishes that need to be met before we are comfortable to carry out the points which we have stated in our Counter-Offer. Thanks for being so patient with all of this. Regards Brendan
Dear Mr Barber, Pursuant to your advice that it would assist negotiations to share which aspects of your Client’s offer are acceptable to SDAnonymous and me, I submit this commentary on the demands of your Client. It would be equally helpful if your Client could do the same so we can see where they are coming from. Your Client’s offer is in Red Font
1. You provide to our client any documents in your possession or control: (a) That of documents, or copies of documents, obtained by you, directly or indirectly, from our client, i.e. all illegally obtained writings of Ellen G White; (b) That are abduction of the documents referred to in sub paragraph a and all the various forms in which they exist (such as computers, iPads, Smartphones, zip drives, CDs, flash drives, etc); In Point 1. of our Counter-Offer, it states that we are prepared to provide a copy of all information obtained from the https://egwwritings.org database and destroy all copies held by any in SDAnonymous other than those obtained through legitimate research requests and/or copying made at Research Centers. (c) (d) Relating to the illegal obtainment of the documents from our client’s database and/or by any other means; Relating to the copying or downloading of any document from our clients database and/or its Research Centres;
In Point 2. of our Counter-Offer, it states that we are prepared to “provide a detailed explanation of the measures used to gain access to the database for the purposes of future protection, as well as other vulnerabilities we know of.” (e) Relating to publishing, selling, distributing or advertising for sale of: i. Any documents or copies of documents referred to in sub paragraph a and b obtained from our client’s database and/or its Research Centres; ii. Any documents or that are abduction of the documents referred to in sub paragraph e (i)
We are not prepared to provide documents relating to this specifically, however the underlying desires in Point 2 of your Client’s Offer below and our response should satisfy this. (f) (g) Relating to use of any trademark of our client, including ELLEN WHITE, EGW and ELLEN G WHITE; Relating to Internet Websites and Domain Name accounts;
I personally have stated in Point 8. of the Counter-Offer that I would “make a transfer gift of the following domain names to the Ellen G. White Estate, Inc.: ellenwhiteletters.com, ellenwhitemanuscripts.com, unpublishedellenwhite.com, ellenwhiteunpublished.com”
2. That you are permanently restrained from publishing, selling, distributing or copying or advertising for sale any documents, or copies of documents, illegally obtained by you, directly or indirectly from our client including any works from its database, its Research Centres, the Biblical Research Institute of the General Conference (specifically the Daniel and Revelation 7 Volume Set) and the Seventh-day Adventist Church; In Point 3 of our Counter-Offer, it states that we are prepared to “disband SDAnonymous and cease all online activity promoting the independent release and sale of the complete letters and manuscripts of Ellen White. In fact, I go further to personally add in point 7 of our Counter-Offer that I am prepared to “provide details for the online location of the infringing copies of the 7-Volume Daniel and Revelation Committee Series, if it hasn’t already been located.” 3. Providing the details of any and all individuals and entities that have assisted you in obtaining all documents from our client illegally from its database and Research Centres. 4. Providing satisfactory assurances of cooperation in any legal proceedings that might ensue, including arranging for acceptance of service of process for subpoenas for documents and testimony, This we are not at all prepared to do. Before the points in our Counter-Offer, it states that “one nonnegotiable point which I will mention at the outset involves the identification of other members of SDAnonymous.” 5. Providing satisfactory assurances of cooperation that third parties will be advised regarding the illegal actions undertaken and that unauthorized distribution and sale of our client’s works must cease. Point 3 of our Counter-Offer also satisfies this point that we are prepared to “disband SDAnonymous and cease all online activity promoting the independent release and sale of the complete letters and manuscripts of Ellen White.” Moreover, we go further by stating in Point 4 that we are prepared to “promote, as one final act, to all our supporters so far, the projects of the Ellen G. White Estate, Inc. to release the complete letters and manuscripts of Ellen White and to digitise other holdings relating to Adventist Heritage.” This would point others to the efforts of the White Estate. Finally, we go as far as to say in Point 5 of our Counter-Offer that we are prepared to “make an online apology on http://egwletters.webs.com to the Ellen G. White Estate, Inc. for working independently of the official channel of the Church.”
As you can see, Mr Barber, we have fully engaged with the Offer of your Client. We have tried to speak to the underlying desires of your Client, even where we cannot accommodate their exact requests. In fact, we have gone beyond some of the desires of your Client in order to show good faith and our desire for peace.
We would like to see your Client engage in a similar manner, rather than outright dismissing our Counter-Offer. Since negotiations began with your Client’s first offer, instead of show they are serious about settling peaceably, they have begun simultaneous litigation in the US. This has really started to alert the media over there. As a result, spokespersons on behalf of your client have been quoted by reporters on the case. In contrast, we have committed ourselves to not reacting, showing our desire to resolve things through negotiations. I have already been approached by several reporters. We are truly hoping that your Client chooses to show themselves sincere in the 48-hour window we have given you. Kind Regards, Brendan Knudson
August 26, 2012
Dear Samuel, Please let me know if you have heard from your Client. Cheers Brendan
August 27, 2012
Dear Brendan The relevant representatives of my client will not be in a position to meet to discuss your most recent proposals until Wednesday this week (US time). As such I will not be in a position to revert to you until after then. If you intend to rely upon affidavit material at the hearing on 4 September 2012, could you please forward a copy of all such material to me as soon as possible so that I can have time to consider it and provide it to the Counsel I have briefed. This will increase the chance of the hearing not having to be adjourned on 4 September 2012. If you have any queries please contact me. Regards
Dear Brendan Thank you for your email. I am still waiting on instructions from my client in relation to settlement negotiations. In the premises it would seem that the Hearing will proceed on 4 September 2012. I look forward to receiving any material that you will seek to rely upon at the Hearing on 4 September 2012. For your reference I now attach correspondence received from the Federal Court of Australia Registrar in relation to the proceedings. I will forward sealed copies of the originating application and statement of claim (copies of which have already been provided to you) once I collect same from the Federal Court of Australia. Regards
August 31 Dear Brendan Knudson We refer to the above matter. We are yet to receive any new instructions from our client in relation to settlement negotiations. That said you do have our clients settlement proposal and you have chosen not to accept that proposal. We now attach by way of service a sealed copy of the originating application and statement of claim that have previously been provided to you but were ultimately filed today. Yours faithfully --
September 6, 2012 Dear Samuel, Is there any word yet from the White Estate regarding negotiations? We really are hoping your client avails themselves of this opportunity. If you think it prudent, I can put together another letter formally addressing their lack of attention to this matter. It seems to many of us that your client is stalling. I will get that Notice of Address for Service to you by next week. Cheers Brendan
September 7, 2012
Dear Brendan Knudson Thank you for your email. Please forward the Notice of Address as soon as possible so that the issue of where you currently reside can be resolved with the Court once and for all. Obviously at the moment the Court is not completely convinced that you are actually in Armenia. The Lodgment of the Notice of Address for Service will resolve this. If you provide a scanned signed copy of the Notice to me with an authority to file it on your behalf I can attend to the filing of the Notice for you. In relation to settlement I see no harm in you providing another letter to me to provide to the Estate. In the interim I have asked that they provide further instructions to me in relation to settlement as soon as possible. Yours faithfully
September 9, 2012
Dear Samuel, On the understanding that your Client has not yet responded regarding a desire to engage in negotiations, I am sending you the following documents 1. New Communication Regarding Negotiating a Settlement, dated today, September 9. 2. Original Counter Offer, dated August 11 and sent to you on August 13. 3. Respose to the Rejection of our Counter-Offer, dated August 23. 4. Comparison of Counter-Offer with your client's original Offer. If you have already received a response from your Client, please disregard this email and forward the response. Otherwise, please feel free to forward our sentiments on to your Client. Yours Faithfully Brendan
September 9, 2012 Dear Mr Barber, It has now been over two and a half weeks since I sent to you our repeated Counter-Offer after your client turned it down at the first. In that communication, I stressed that we wished to hear from you an answer as to whether your Client was serious about negotiating a Settlement, or whether they were only interested in dictating terms. We initially gave 48 hours to hear a simple answer to this question, which we extended to 7 days so that your Client could discuss it at their board-meeting. At our last communication on Thursday, I note that you had not yourself heard word from your Client to deliver to us on this question. We are not asking immediately for a full response to our Counter-Offer in working towards a middle ground. We understand that that can take additional time. We are asking for an immediate answer to your Client’s attitude towards Settlement negotiations. I urge again that your Client can have little hope of any financial reward from their litigation either in Australia or the US, if successful. The Copyright case in both Australia and the US is not solid. As well as this, there are major jurisdictional problems in both countries from the advice we have. We are hopeful for settlement primarily because it is in the best financial interests of your Client. There is a growing media interest in this case which has a high potential to be damaging to the public image of the White Estate and even the Seventh-day Adventist Church. The longer this is drawn out, the more press this will generate. SDAnonymous held off on requests for a press statement from several reporters covering this story during the 7 day period we set for an answer. From the comments on the stories found below, there is a high support for the objectives of SDAnonymous, even if some are not comfortable with all the actions taken.
The power to resolve this matter promptly and peacefully rests with your Client engaging with the Counter-Offer of August 11. We are hoping and praying that your Client chooses to come to the negotiating table. SDAnonymous are not now, nor have we ever been hostile to the White Estate, we have only disagreed with some of its policies and acted on our own beliefs and policies. Since we do not wish to see your Client come to further loss over this matter, either publically or financially, we renew our urge that the Counter-Offer of August 11 be seriously considered. Because we understand that your Client conducts its board meetings on a Wednesday, we hope to hear by close of business on Thursday, September 13 (U.S. Pacific Time) an answer as to whether your Client will engage in negotiations with us or not. If I do not hear from you by midday on Friday, Australian EST, SDAnonymous shall proceed, legally and publically, on the assumption that your Client does not wish to settle peacefully. Kind Regards Brendan Knudson
November 1 Dear Samuel, I note that it has been six weeks since you updated me on your client's willingness to negotiate. At that time you had drafted a new offer and stated you would send it on as soon as you had approval from your clients. Despite repeated requests for an update, you have never addressed this matter since then. I am writing to appeal one last time for negotiations to go ahead. I am instructed to inform you by others in SDAnonymous that if your client does not attend to negotiations immediately, the manuscripts and letters of Ellen White will be uploaded simultaneously to multiple file-sharing websites and peer-to-peer file sharing services for free. The results will be that your client will lose all control over the release of the writing and will never be able to hope to contain their dissemination by the public. We are offering your client one last chance to come to the negotiating table and preserve their desire to control how these writings are released. I stress to you that these actions will be taken by other individuals independently of myself and upon whom I have no control over. I point out to you that I have represented repeated appeals in past correspondence to your client to negotiate in an attempt to allow them to maintain some authority in the release of documents. I can only say I am disappointed about the lack of response from your client, and the misrepresentation that a response would be forthcoming. With hope Kind regards -Brendan Knudson
November 2 Dear Brendan Thank you for your email. I am still in the process of obtaining final instructions from my client in relation to settlement. If you disseminate the material as foreshadowed in your below you can rest assured that my client will never negotiate with you and move to bankrupt you in Australia when the time arises. There will of course be other actions that my client will take at various locations around the world against you and the other members of SDAnonymous. I recommend that you delay and dissemination action until you have heard further from me which will not be until early next week. At that time you will receive further and better particulars from me. You should also receive further correspondence in relation to settlement. Regards
Dear Samuel, Thank you for your reply. Just to clarify and reassert, it is not I who would be disseminating the material, it is others who possess copies of the same material. You must understand from our perspective it appears that your client doesn't wish to negotiate. They have certainly dragged their feet on the matter for many weeks. Any attempt by your client to "bankrupt" me in Australia has little chance of being successful, from my understanding of the facts. I expect the case to be dismissed in the Federal Court when my documentation is submitted. Even if your client is successful, I have no qualms about starting over in another country financially, and countries in this part of the world have a very low cost of living. I believe in this matter strongly enough to fight it as long as it takes me. That said, I will make sure that others in SDAnonymous hold off from disseminating the material on the provision that you secure a reasonable offer which interacts with our negotiation counter-offers and send it through before next Friday. After that, I can promise nothing in regards to the others who have been patient for almost 2 months while hearing nothing from your client. New press statements are going out to various media outlets covering this story this weekend regarding the delay in negotiations. Thanks again for answering the questions. We had hoped that it wouldn't have to come to us making threats of further initiatives to bring your client to the negotiating table. All we want is for the right thing to be done and this material be released for the many thousands who want it. If your client will not be the one to do it, it will be done by others. We are trying to give your client the chance to control the release, but it has to be done within months, not years. Have a great weekend. Cheers Brendan