BEFORE THE PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE AMY YIP-KIKUGAWA, presiding

Application of Pacific Gas and Electric Company for Approval of Modifications to its SmartMeter™ Program and Increased Revenue Requirements to Recover the Costs of the Modifications. (U39M) And Related Matters.

) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) )

EVIDENTIARY HEARING

Application 11-03-014; A.11-03-015; A.11-07-020

REPORTERS' TRANSCRIPT San Clemente, California December 18, 2012 Pages 904 - 981 Volume - 9

Reported by:

Ana M. Gonzalez, CSR No. 11320 Michael J. Shintaku, CSR No. 8251

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

905

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 MR. JINBACHIAN MS. HOFFMAN MS. DUELKE MS. LUBBRES MS. RAWLINS MS. SHELDON MR. SCHWAEBE MS. BRINCHMAN MS. BEARD MR. FRANK MR. FRANCIS MR. HOLTZMAN MS. BERCICH MR. DONOVAN MS. MYCENA MS. LEWIS MS. TAAR MS. HOMAN MR. SAVILL MR. BERECZKY MR. WILSON MR. BLACK MR. CORRIGAN MS. SCHLICHT MR. STEWART MS. RAMSEY

STATEMENTS

911 914 916 917 919 921 923 925 927 928 930 931 933 935 937 939 940 942 944 947 948 951 952 954 956 958

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

906

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

MS. GEERLINGS MS. LINSKY MR. SCHALLER MS. PLOURDE MR. TYLER MR. MASON MR. SMITH MS. MALLON MR. MAYALL MS. ANDERSON MR. McCULLOH MS. PERATA

959 962 962 964 965 967 968 970 971 972 974 977

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

907

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

SAN CLEMENTE, CALIFORNIA DECEMBER 18, 2012 - 6:00 P.M. * * * * *

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE YIP-KIKUGAWA: We'll be on the record. The Commission will come to order. This is the time and place set for the Commission for the Public Participation Hearing in Applications 11-03-014, 11-03-015, and 11-07-020 addressing cost and cost allocation issues related to providing an option for gas and electric utility residential customers who do not wish to have wireless smart meters installed in their location. And good evening, everyone. I am

Administrative Law Judge Amy Yip-Kikugawa. The assigned commissioner for this proceeding is President Michael Peevey. And to start off with, a Public Participation is exactly what the name suggests. I'm here to hear from all of you. And if you

I do want to hear your comments.

do wish to speak, you should have signed up with the Public Advisor's Office in the back. If you haven't done so, please do so now. UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: understand. I don't

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

908

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA:

Okay.

So I will be We will

calling for you to make a statement.

have everyone who has signed up will have an opportunity to speak. A couple housekeeping matters before we begin. today. I do have two reporters here

They will be taking down everything That transcript And they

and preparing a transcript.

will be given to the commissioners. will be reading it.

So I do ask that when you are called up to please speak slowly and clearly into the microphone. Please as audience members It's very

do not interrupt the speaker.

difficult for our reporters to get an accurate record if there's a lot of background comments from people as the speaker is speaking. This hearing is scheduled to last for two hours. And each speaker is going to We will also be

have two minutes to speak.

taking a short break about halfway through. And, again, please be sure all of you who wish to make a comment will have an opportunity to do so. And, again, since this is a Public Participation Hearing and to hear comments from all of you, there are no questions and

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

909

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

answers.

I'm not here to answer any It's really I

questions that you may have. want to hear from all of you.

So just a little background on how a decision will be made in this proceeding and what the process is. For the three

utilities -- Pacific Gas & Electric Company, Southern California Edison Company, and San Diego Gas and Electric Company -- they were ordered earlier this year by the Commission to modify their advanced metering infrastructure programs to include an option for customers who did not wish to have a wireless smart meter. As part of that order, there were interim fees that were adopted. And a second

phase was kicked off to consider what the permanent fees should be and also what costs should be recovered from the utilities. So that is where we are today. For

Southern California Gas Company, they do not have an opt-out option for their advanced metering program yet. That is something that

is currently pending before the Commission. A decision will be issued on that in the near future. The utility, however, SoCalGas, is participating in this proceeding. And we're

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

910

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

also as part of phase two looking at SoCalGas's cost and cost allocation issues. In terms of how a decision is going to be made, we have had evidentiary hearings in this proceeding already. For utilities as

well as various consumer groups have submitted testimony. We have had the And

witnesses subject to cross-examination.

the evidentiary hearings have been concluded. And we are now also going to be receiving briefs from all parties. And when I talk about the consumer groups, that includes the Commission's own Division of Rate Payer Advocates as well as outside consumer groups such as The Utility Reform Network and Aglet Consumer Alliance. The briefs and the evidentiary hearing testimony from the evidentiary hearings -- that makes up part of the record. Another part that we do consider is public input. And that is what we're here for

today, is to hear from all of you. When I conclude all the information that is submitted to me, when the briefs are filed, I will be looking at the evidence. I

will be preparing a proposed decision for the Commission to consider. The commissioners may vote out my

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

911

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

decision.

Or if one of the commissioners

wishes to have an alternate outcome, they can provide -- they can write what's called an alternate proposed decision. Whatever

decision is voted out by the Commission is the final say. So that's the process that we have. And before we go into public comment, what I'd like to do is just make a few quick introductions. And first is to my right is

Varoujan Jinbachian, who is from our Public Advisor's Office. And I'd like him just to

give a couple words about what the Public Advisor's Office does. STATEMENT OF MR. JINBACHIAN MR. JINBACHIAN: Thank you, your Honor. My name

Good evening and welcome. is Varoujan Jinbachian.

I'm with the Public

Utilities Commission with the Public Advisor's Office. Our office helps the We

public to participate in PUC proceedings. facilitate hearings such as this. And our

staff was outside signing up speakers. In addition to making verbal comments here today, you could also send us written comments. outside. We have our agenda

And I know a lot of you were On the backside of the

picking them up.

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

912

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

agenda, there's our contact information, both our mailing address and email address. If

you send us any comments, we'll route them to the judge and also to the offices of the commissioners so they will see your written comments. We also have a free subscription service where you can sign up electronically and you will receive updates on this proceeding or any other proceeding. Again,

on the back of the agenda, there is a link for the subscription service. You could just

follow the link, and you could enter this proceeding number to get updates. If you have any questions, please see our staff outside, or you could talk to me after the hearing and we'll try to help you as best as we can. welcome. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: For the other Thank you and

introductions, what I would like to do is introduce you to individuals that are from the various utility smart meter programs. And they are available to answer any questions that you may have about the opt-out costs or their proposals after the hearing. Or you can just step outside during the hearing if you wish to speak to them.

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

913

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

And if I could have Mr. Cave from San Diego Gas and Electric Company just wave and identify yourself, okay. We also have

Mr. Nicolatte (phonetic) from Southern California Edison Company. And we also have

Mr. Healy from Southern California Gas Company. So those individuals you may speak

with them after the hearing. We also have outside in the entrance area representatives -- customer service representatives from the three utilities. And they can help you with customer billing information that you may have or even if you wish to sign up for the opt-out program. if you wish to do either of that, you may also go out into the entry area and speak with them. Okay. I'd like to just proceed with When I call your So

the public comment period. name, please come up.

I'll be calling two

names at a time so that we can move a little faster. The other thing is we do have a timer here. She will be our timekeeper. And she will give a

There's two minutes.

warning at the one-minute mark, and she will also note when the time is up. Off the record.

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

914

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

(Off the record) ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Back on the record.

One other thing before we proceed is there is a request that all cell phones also be turned off at this point. So if you do

have a cell phone on, please turn that off. Okay. So let's begin with our We have first Cindy

public comment period.

Hoffman followed by Ann Duelke. STATEMENT OF MS. HOFFMAN MS. HOFFMAN: Wireless technology is I don't want

efficient, cheap, and it's fun.

wireless technology to be dangerous to our health. But after reading the many

independent research studies, I don't see how anyone can honestly come to any other conclusion but that wireless causes illness. All wireless devices emit radiation which builds up in the body over time. called time-weighted. It's

The FCC states that

wireless devices are safe on a thermal basis because the radiation they emit is too weak to thermally heat our tissue. Industry and the utilities hang their hat on this. They blatantly ignore the

nonindustry research that shows serious damage from a nonthermal biological effects at a cellular level.

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

915

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

Everybody's different.

But when

your radiation bucket's full, you get sick. It may take 10, 20, 30 years. did your last 20 years go? Smart meters emit radiation every 20 to 30 seconds every hour every day. this because I don't own a meter. metered many of these. I know And I've But how fast

As a consumer, you

are powerless to stop it unless you pay for a safer meter. I've talked to folks in apartments with banged up meters on the wall. And

they're despairing because they might opt out but the other four, five, six, ten are still there. I talked to business owners. don't understand. residence. business? They

They've opted out of their

But they can't opt out of their Doesn't make sense. I've talked to many folks who don't

want a smart meter. the opt-out already. unconscionable.

And they can't afford To charge more is

The CPUC's mission statement states "The CPUC serves the public interest by protecting the consumer and ensuring the provision of safe, reliable utility services." I don't think the CPUC is meeting

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

916

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

their own mission statement.

Most people are

here tonight because they're taking on the job to protect the people that the CPUC should be doing. We implore you please recommend approval for community opt-out, business opt-outs, and no increase in the opt-out fees. Or, better yet, let anyone who wants That would be

to opt out do so at no cost.

the moral and a just decision for the people of California. (Applause) ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Thank you.

Ann Duelke followed by Marie Lubbres. STATEMENT OF MS. DUELKE MS. DUELKE: Hi. My daughter has She was

lustemic (phonetic) Lyme disease.

doing much better until October of last year when six smart meters were installed in her unit in Turtle Rock Condo. At that time, her health deteriorated rapidly. dizzy. She became extremely They're

She's had two MRIs.

perfectly fine. MRI.

Everything is fine on the

But her eyes were so heavy during the

month that these smart meters were installed that she couldn't see straight. She had to

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

917

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

keep other eyes closed. of her during that week.

I had to take care

She has weakness in her arms since October when they were installed. with a shuffling gait at times. She walks She's had

nausea, headaches, insomnia -- a gamut of neurological symptoms. I'm a nurse. And I

started to research what the damage from these smart meters could do. also. My daughter is going to be forced to relocate because of the neurological symptoms she still has off and on. And, frankly, And she did,

after I read the literature, I had my smart meter removed from our home. So I hope the

powers that be will take this into consideration. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Thank you.

Marie Lubbres followed by Sharon Rawlins. STATEMENT OF MS. LUBBRES MS. LUBBRES: I'm a nursing resident.

I opted out of the smart meter program out of concern for my health. I have to pay $195 a I

year in addition to my electricity bill. strongly object to these fees.

I consider it

as unlawful to ask opt-out people to pay when opting out when the federal government never

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

918

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

made smart meters mandatory. CPUC Code Section 745(d) says residential customers have the option to not receive service pursuant to time-variant pricing and incur no additional charges as a result of the exercise of that option. appears then that making people pay for opting out is a violation of the law. The electricity company pretends that the opt-out people costs them money, but we actually save money and energy. The It

traditional meter has a longer lifespan than the smart meter and uses less electricity to function. Connecticut has asked to terminate its smart meter program after a pilot study showed that there were no energy saving. Many families' electricity bill is extremely low. We do not need a smart meter to know

how to keep our energy consumption low. People can be educated about that. They

don't have to be forced into an unhealthy system. I want no special fee for opting out. I'm not prepared to bear additional fee I demand that the opt-out option

next year.

should be extended to local governments and communities and that business should be

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

919

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

allowed also to opt out.

Besides it's very

discriminatory if you have to pay to opt out because some people cannot afford it. it. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Thank you. ] That's

Sharon Rawlins followed by Dorothy Sheldon. STATEMENT OF MS. RAWLINS MS. RAWLINS: I'm not going to talk

about the meter itself, because I don't have one. I'm going to talk about how aggressive

the electric company has been to come into my property and force them on me. I had to call the police finally. The first time they came into my backyard, my backyard is fully fenced with locks on them. They come early in the morning. your backyard. They come in

They pound on your windows

and wake you up, and I'm in the bathroom in my robe. I come out, and I look to see who

is in my backyard, and he ran away and disappeared on -- a gate we didn't have a lock on. I didn't know who it was. So I

called the electric company they said nobody was sent to your house, which was a lie. Anyway, they came again later. And

they squeezed through a gate that we had a fifth wheel pushed up against and broke the

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

920

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

gate because the pushed it in backwards.

And

I did hear him, and he pounded on my window again, woke me up out of a dead sleep, scared me. And I went out and I saw him taking the I told him to stop. He was behind the The police came He said my I

glass off my meter.

was calling the police.

locked gates in my property. and told him he had to leave.

name was on a list for him to come and change the meter. And I told him no, I don't want They have been very

my meter changed. forceful.

Then they sent me a letter a week and a half ago saying thank you for joining the opt-out program. I never joined the

opt-out program either verbally or in writing. but lies. And the whole letter was nothing And I wrote back to them and told

them that I did not join verbally or in writing. I just mailed that yesterday. So they've been extremely aggressive to me the whole way. And trying to force

this on me and breaking into my yard and saying that they weren't sent. And it is

just has been ridiculous and scaring you early in the morning coming and your property. So that is about all. Thank you. Dorothy

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA:

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

921

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

Sheldon followed by Michael Schwaebe. STATEMENT OF MS. SHELDON MS. SHELDON: Why were these smart

meters deployed without customer consent. Increased fees, unjust, and punitive, arbitrary, and unreasonable which violates the California Public Utilities Code 451. What is the price of our families' health, safety and privacy? This infringes

our constitutional privacy and property rights. It is wrong to charge extra rate

increases for customers to choose the healthful, analogue electric meters. this called legalized thievery? I did not want a smart meter on my home. Both my husband and I have pacemakers Isn't

that are affected by radiofrequency radiation. My doctor warned both of us to We have been

use cell phones with care.

extra cautious to keep away from radiation from all sources such as WiFi, cell phones, et cetera. As a senior citizen living on a fixed income, we do not have the luxury in our budget to spend hundreds of dollars to maintain this opt-out program. Why are we

being forced to spend our precious little funds of protecting our health from these

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

922

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

smart meters.

The analogue meter that is By

currently on my home works just fine.

billing me for a meter a higher rate than those without my disability, some would call this discrimination. My husband and I are

forced to pay higher rates due to our disability. Unjust and illegal. Everyone

should pay the same. It is criminal that a United Nations request, not a U.S. federal mandate, has forced all homes in a America to get the new smart meters which are hazardous to our health, an invasion of privacy, and can be hacked. This has been stealthily done. People were given no prior information that the new meter causes health problems. There was no information about

radiofrequency microwave emissions every six to seconds, eight to 10 times a minute, 14,000 times a day, 24/7. How can all these People

RF signals not destroy our health?

will be sick and will not know it, will not know why. There will be an increase of This will destroy our This is What we are It is

childhood leukemia.

health at the cellular level. dangerous, invasive, expensive.

doing to people should not be done?

not just health, but our bills will go up

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

923

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

four or five times higher than it has been shown already. This is disaster killing by smart meters. NASA published a 1984 report. Ma'am, you need to

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: end. MS. SHELDON: Okay.

Thank you. Michael Schwaebe

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA:

followed by Susan Brinchman. STATEMENT OF MR. SCHWAEBE MR. SCHWAEBE: Schwaebe. My name is Michael

I'm a professional engineer. Microscope,

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: please. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: MR. SCHWAEBE: Schwaebe.

Microphone.

My name is Michael I'm

I'm a professional engineer.

from Encinitas, California where I've resided for more than 30 years. I worked for Southern California Edison in the San Onofre Nuclear Generating Station for more than 20 years. a head bump. I hurt my head. There I had From that

point more than 15 years ago I became environmentally sensitive, that includes electric. And it took a long time to figure out my life, and I did. And it caused me to

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

924

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

learn about electric and how it affects me, how to measure it. me. The smart meters affect

I wasn't home, I was away when the smart I would have never

meters were installed. given permission.

The smart meter is gone

now, but I had to live with it for more than a year. It hurts my head. It hurts a lot of

people's heads. So if we look at the smart meter, if you look at the whole radiation industry, it looks like they've never been proven safe. They have never been proven safe. The smart

meter never had an environmental impact study and said it was safe. criminal nuisance. I consider it to be a

And everyone should have

a right not to have a meter at no cost to them. Here I have a book, it is called Cellular Telephone Russian Roulette by Robert Kane. years. He worked in the industry for 30 He died of brain cancer. And he

writes in here that the microwave was known to be a health hazard, and known to cause cancer four years ago. So this is what we

are up against, long-term health and neurological consequences. I urge you to represent this and the others in just this way of like it is not

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

925

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

right. fees.

We need to have the options without Thank you. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Susan Brinchman

followed by Sarah Beard. STATEMENT OF MS. BRINCHMAN MS. BRINCHMAN: Brinchman. Hi. My name is Susan

I live in La Mesa, California.

And I'm here representing myself and also a party to the opt-out proceedings, but I'm not representing my organization, the Center for Electrosmog Prevention at this time. I'm a person who has been profoundly affected by the smart meters. Before the

smart meters were put on my property I had a gas smart meter and an electric smart meter. Before they were put on my property where they remained for two years, I had no symptoms of electrosensitivity. even really know what that was. I didn't And I was

able to use other devices without any problem problems that I could detect, such as cell phones or computers or, you know, microwave ovens, et cetera. Now since the smart meter was put on my home, within six months I became sensitive to cell phone radiation to, computer emitted radiation, to any form or RF radiation that is in a microwave range. I cannot use

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

926

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

microwaves anymore. It has completely disrupted my life. They gave me headaches dizziness, heart palpitations. I listed 15 different symptoms Now I can't

that came from the smart meters. be on WiFi.

All the buildings have WiFi now. The

So it ruined my health and my life. quality of life is destroyed.

Also a company can save money on meter meters and gouge us. I want no fees.

I think anyone who wants to get rid of this disastrous device until they are all banned. I think they should be all banned. they should not pay a dime. (Applause) MS. BRINCHMAN: immediately. health. And Judge Kikugawa, you can do something about this. I ask as a mother, you They should be removed I think

Not one.

It is a menace to public

are a mother, you wouldn't want your children to end up like I am. happen to them. And believe me, it can

It can destroy their lives. Don't listen

Children are more susceptible.

to anyone except these people and make the right decisions. Thank you. Thank you. Sarah

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA:

Beard followed by Bill Frank.

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

927

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

STATEMENT OF MS. BEARD MS. BEARD: CPUC, do your job. Your

job is to protect, defend our God-given human rights from privacy violators, safety violators, health violators. Your job is --

the Legislature finds California Public Utilities Code Section 328, no customer should have to pay separate fees for utilizing services that protect the public or customer safety. I cannot be charged money for a benefit of exercising any of my God-given human rights. Smart meters are not safe, not That threaten my life,

healthy, not private. my liberty.

As such, they are I never gave up any of my It is my

unconstitutional.

rights, of any of those rights.

duty and my right to defend my life, my privacy, my safety, my health against smart meters. As such, I should not be charged for

the benefit of exercising any of these God-given human rights treating them as a benefit. The 9th and 10th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution states, a certain rights should not be construed to deny or retain -others by the people. of these rights. We never gave up any

You can't take them away

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

928

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

from us and charge us for them. is immoral.

That

I already gave this all to you. that is basically it.

So

I hope you will judge

in the correct way and not judge like the Supreme Court Judge as Dred Scott, blacks can't be citizens. There has been a lot of Follow your We are not

judges that have judged wrong. own laws, protect the people. going to stand up to this.

This is a joke. We It is

It is sick, and we were not doing it. have the right to opt out for nothing. our human rights. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: by Dave Francis. STATEMENT OF MR. FRANK MR. FRANK: wife.

Bill Frank followed

I live in Santa Ana with my

We purchased a home there about 18 And at that time I wasn't aware

years ago.

of the fact that previous owners had installed on the air conditioner some kind of regulator that Edison put on where they could control the electricity going to that air conditioner. So we ended up with -- during that hot streak that we had like four days of triple digit weather, my wife cannot handle that kind of heat. The air conditioner

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

929

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

worked fine like for the first day or two, and the next day it would not come on. So obviously I called the tech. The

tech came out and said you got this gadget on there that Edison is controlling. They shut

the power off, so we had no air-conditioning. I'm really afraid that the smart meter has that capability to shut it off when it is needed most, in our case for the air-conditioning. That is wrong. We should

not be subject to that. So I opted out of the program, excuse me, I'm paying $195 a year for something that was mandated, that I didn't want, don't need, and I think it is illegal. What gives the CPUC the right to force me to pay money that I shouldn't have to pay? is extortion, pure and simple. (Applause) UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: want it. The people don't Listen It

The people don't need it.

to the people. MR. FRANK: The other thing we are It

susceptible to is hackers, cyber hackers. is all over the world.

I can be on the smart

meter too so some kid or the adult can shut our power off, if they are smart enough to do it. It can be done.

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

930

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

It is wrong.

I don't want to pay It I

the extra fee of $195 dollars a year. should be free. don't want it. money for it. I didn't ask for it.

I don't want to have to pay Thank you. Dave Francis

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: followed by Joe Holtzman.

STATEMENT OF MR. FRANCIS MR. FRANCIS: Francis? ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: MR. FRANCIS: Yes. It is my turn, Dave

My name is Dave Francis.

I initially refused to have the meters put on my house, mainly out of respect and concern about the meter readers, being a working guy myself. I've worked all my life ]

since I was a little kid. And then I got started thinking about it because of my last 20 years of employment with the government, I realize

they could program our keycards to open since 9-11 for security. From a building to three stories up away, if it quit working on the doors in our building, they could hit a few keys on a keyboard to open another building. sudden my keycard worked. All of a

I thought holy

mackerel this thing can be remotely

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

931

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

controlled. And then I found out about the health concerns. I went to couple meetings

with some of these people before, which I kind of suspected. And it's kind of like

other things in my life I found out that the more I find out and get knowledgeable of a subject, I realize the more I really don't know. And these -- as some of these people have pointed out, they can be -- thank you. Little warning thing there -- they can

be hacked by these computer guys without a doubt. And health concerns are definitely bad buggy. And also the fact that they can

be remotely shut off for whatever reason is not good. Thank you. (Applause) ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Thank you.

Joe Holtzman followed by Gayle Bercich. STATEMENT OF MR. HOLTZMAN MR. HOLTZMAN: Mission Viejo. Yeah, Joe Holtzman, I

I'm a ham radio operator.

have been since 1956. are RF.

So I know the dangers And

And I know the part 97 reads.

it's much more restrictive than what they put

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

932

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

on these meters.

So there is a health issue. And I've had And I'm I've had

I'm also a solar guy.

solar on my house for three years. going to provide you this document.

ten straight months where I provided excess energy to the grid. Why should I have to pay a monthly fee to have my meter read? It's ridiculous.

There is a yearly true-up period when they come out and they say okay, this is what you owe us or what I am owed by Edison. now I'm owed by Edison $236. pay a monthly opt-out fee? (Applause) MR. HOLTZMAN: In addition, there's Right

Why should I

some other things that I'd likes to go over. It's an invasion of privacy. If you don't

think it's an invasion of privacy, when they start selling the data that you're up at 2:30 in the morning maybe to go to the bathroom and turn your lights on, you'll know about it. The health issues have been covered tonight. And Cindy Sage has written And I got a copy of this in And it defines it very

dissertations.

here -- a report. well.

There's no siting rights for an

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

933

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

antenna on my property.

It is an invasion.

I have written the CPUC on this, and I've got nothing but nonsense back. Now, in addition, there's firmware problems in the present Edison meters. I

know this because there is a whole bevy of people every day, every morning, leaving the Holiday Inn at Lake Forest to go out and change the meters. trucks. Here's a picture of the

I'm going to give this to you. In addition, the health issues are

covered by the Sage report. talked about this.

And the people

And I have measured them.

And it's measured in milliwatts per meter squared. Okay. And I have taken measures When I've

where their excess background is 0.003. you get up to 0.3, you've got problems. seen where it's gone up to 1.7. fry your brains.

That will

So I'm going to provide you

these details, and it's all in here all specified. Thank you. (Applause) ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Thank you.

Gayle Bercich followed by Louis Donovan. STATEMENT OF MS. BERCICH MS. BERCICH: Hi. I'm Gayle Bercich. And the

I live in a retirement community.

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

934

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

houses were built in the 70s.

And all of the

Edison meters are attached to bedroom walls. I've had the smart reader for my neighbor read inside my bedroom. And it spikes every If a

minute to the caution and danger zone. smart meter were installed on my bedroom

wall, it would be six inches above my head. I have written three letters to Edison and CPU with suggestions for my reading the meter on a monthly basis. could enter it on the website. it in. form. I could call it. I

I could email

I could mail a

They could read the meter on a

quarterly semiannual annual basis and then mail me the difference or credit me. They have never addressed -answered or addressed my suggestion on any of my repeated paragraphs in each letter repeating their rights and comparisons of their meter to my microwave and cell phone usage. Excuse me. I choose when to use

those, and I don't sleep with either one of them. Now Edison wants to increase our monthly fees. I feel this is an extortion.

The meter reading fees were always included in our monthly rates. If they are so desperate for

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

935

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

revenue, they might take a look at the salaries of their CEO, which is 11 million, some of their high-paid executives. And what

happened to the money that they're gaining from firing all the meter readers? I respectfully request that they discontinue any meter reading fees. (Applause) ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Thank you.

Louis Donovan followed by Myra Mycena. STATEMENT OF MR. DONOVAN MR. DONOVAN: Your Honor, ladies and I'd

gentlemen, my name is Louis Donovan.

like to share with you my health and smart meters. Smart meter radiation interfering

with my heart's electrical system. Cardiac arrhythmia began after electrical smart meter was installed on my home alongside my bedroom window. I was

hospitalized with cardiac arrhythmia and stabilized on 8-17-10 to 8-20-10. Then eight months later, I was hospitalized with cardiac arrhythmia again. I was stabilized 4-23-11 to 4-26-11. Angiogram performed on me found unblockages in any arteries of the heart. Defibrillator and pacemaker installed 4-26-11

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

936

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

to 4-29-11. Six months later, smart meter stopped my heart completely. shocked my heart back to life. Defibrillator Smart meter

turned off my defibrillator pacemaker. Created arrhythmia again. Hospitalized.

Restabilized 10-26-11 to 10-20-11. At this time, I was informed about smart meter's effect on heart's electrical system, cardiac arrhythmias and the smart meter's effect on defibrillators pacemakers. I moved from my bedroom to sleep in the garage to get away from the smart meter. I thought it was safe. Did not know

radiation from the smart meters radiates throughout the whole house. Two months later hospitalized with cardiac arrhythmia V-tach again. 12-24-11 to 12-28-11. Then informed Southern California that their smart meter was killing me. Sent Stabilized

them medical information and legal documents to have the smart meter changed. Edison informed me that their smart meters were not responsible for my cardiac arrhythmias or any other medical problems. They did nothing. I then had the smart meter changed

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

937

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

back to the original analog meter. better after the change.

Felt much

But the next door

neighbor's smart meter was ten feet away from my house. Radiate from the smart meter

affected me nine months later. Hospitalized with cardiac arrhythmia V-tach again. Stabilized 9-16-12 to 9-20.

Southern California Edison now has an opt-out program with smart meters back to analog meters. Both my neighbors have

changed back to original analog meters. My heartbeat is now better. thank you for this chance to talk. (Applause) ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Thank you. And I

Myra Mycena followed by Jeannie Lewis. STATEMENT OF MS. MYCENA MS. MYCENA: Mycena. Your Honor, I'm Myra

And I would just like to say that

for every individual here, if the public had been as well informed as we are now right here, we would have a thousand people for per person right here. The reason why you don't

have more opt-out people is because they don't know about the dangers. not well informed. You know, I'm a PhD in clinical The public was

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

938

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

psychology. important.

And I'll tell you why that is I deal with people that have They're

problems that are invisible.

intangible, emotional problems, psychological problems, spiritual problems began very invisibly. Nobody knows they have them until

they get to a point where it becomes intangible and it starts intruding in on their personal and professional lives. And why is that important? Because

the nature of EMS, these electrical magnetic forces, is you cannot see them. So by and

large, people don't feel threatened by something that really is so damaging to them. And by the time it is damaging, it's too late. So let me just bring something up about it. In the 50s and 60s, there was a I'm going to bring this

thalidomide tragedy.

up because thalidomide was a drug that was presented as harmless. pregnant women. And it was given to

It was a sedative drug.

And over 10,000 babies were deformed. Many were killed. And the women,

the mothers who took this drug -- they had these symptoms. coldness. feelings. They had numbness. They had

They had all kinds of tingly

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

939

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 Taar.

And they were told, you know, that's just a side effect of the drug. is okay. Everything

Well, many of those mothers -- they And look

did not recover from these effects. at the babies.

We know because we can see.

You understand EMS you cannot see. But the tragedy of so many things that were said on this thalidomide we know now: deformities, arms that range -- that

stem out from their shoulders, deformed eyes and ears, so many things. We should not have to pay for something that is going to kill us. you. (Applause) ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Thank you. Thank

Jeannie Lewis followed by Mireille

STATEMENT OF MS. LEWIS MS. LEWIS: Yes. I'm just repeating

what you've already heard everyone else say on guess the opt-out -- the fees that are charged. Most of the time these opt-out

fees, the people who really need to opt out the most are the people who can't afford to. They can't and yet they have to do it because like the defibrillators, and that's the kind of things are so harmful to them.

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

940

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 Homan.

And I wonder why this is that we have to pay that when the federal government hasn't even made these meters mandatory. Also, I have a big concern -- I've been in data management for years -- of the privacy issue because when we're at home, the hackers can go in and tell -- even though Edison wouldn't do it, I'm sure. wouldn't do it. The CPU

But there's hackers that

know when we're home and when we're not home just due to these meters. They know and they

can sell this information to anyone who pays them the right price. So they know when to come in and to -- they know when to come in and to do harm to our homes when they can come in and steal when we're not there. They know when

we're asleep and when everything is quiet. And this is just an issue that I don't think is right for the public to know. We should

feel free behind our own closed doors. (Applause) ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Thank you.

Mireille Taar followed by Maureen

STATEMENT OF MS. TAAR MS. TAAR: My name is Mireille Taar. Frankly, your

I'm a resident of Irvine.

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

941

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

Honor and members of the CPUC, I do not see what else I can add to what people have been talking about since the beginning and what anybody else can add further except bring personal testimony to this situation. I really feel that it is time for big companies to start listening to the people. under. For years and years, we have plied We have opened up all that we could And I think

do to listen and to follow. those times are over.

So I would like to tell the California Public Utilities Commission and the Edison Company that they had better start listening because you can see from the events that we've had yesterday -- I mean, the few days ago in Connecticut that people are on the action. And they are not going to quit.

So it's time for this other side to start thinking about what it is that they're doing to the world, which is being followed by other nations. We are the teachers of the

world that we are at this time getting very very bad example around us. But we are

starting to wake up and not take what it is that we are being thrown under without our will and for the wrong consequences. In my case, I found out about it.

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

942

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

And about three or four days later, when I called, I found out that they had already been put in my home. And the idea that I

would have to then go back -- I have a husband who has cancer, and it is very bad thing for him to be under this kind of situation. I live in a condo, and I know

that one foot away from me left and right they're all there. So I've been thinking about whether it's even worth taking it out -- me, personally. this. However, I am going to be doing

But for us to be paying for this is

incredible. I think everything has been mentioned so far: extortion, thievery, lies.

Whatever you want to call it, it's there. And it's enough, and it's time to stop. And

I think you're going to be hearing about it and it's not going to go away. hopefully, you will. (Applause) ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Thank you. So,

Maureen Homan followed by Ben Savill. STATEMENT OF MS. HOMAN MS. HOMAN: these hearings. Thank you, your Honor, for We appreciate that.

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

943

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 headboard.

My name is Maureen Homan, and I'm a certified public accountant from Tustin. I've been researching smart meters in the smart grid for over a year now. And I'm

disgusted that these devices have been forced on homes, schools, offices, without anyone's consent. My electric meter is five foot from My gas meter is two feet from my I have a right to be

daughter's headboard. safe in my home.

Smart meters directly

assault this right to my family's safety. They're not healthy, and they emit microwave radiation, which is a known Class 2B carcinogen. The U.S. military has known this

since the 70s. They are not secure and can be hacked, as professed by former CIA director James Woolsey. fire. He's stated this. They catch

They're not even UL certified. They collect private data as far as

living patterns on how we live our lives, as professed by CIA Director Petraeus in a recent interview. This private data will be

collected and permanently stored and sold to big corporations like IBM, Siemens, and Microsoft. revolution. They call this the big data It's valueless, priceless.

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

944

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 Bereczky.

Now I'm forced because I don't consent -- I'm forced to pay a fee. extortion. arbitrary. These fees are unjust. This is They're

They're unreasonable, which

clearly violates the Code 451. I will pay for a billing system that delivers electricity to my home. However,

opt-out fees make me pay for two billing systems. Electricity, gas, and water are

basic essentials, and those essentials are provided by a monopoly service provider. can't go anywhere else. Because the price is so expensive, this opt-out option is only for the rich. What about the poor? What about apartment I

dwellers that can't get away from banks of meters? This is a debacle. And we shouldn't

be forced to pay for it. (Applause) ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA:

Thank you.

Thank you.

Ben Savill followed by Emil

STATEMENT OF MR. SAVILL MR. SAVILL: Ben Savill from Tustin. I

have some photos of the bank of smart meters on my neighbor's wall. I've written to the

CPUC and the Public Advisor about this several times. I've never had a straight

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

945

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

reply. to you.

I'd like to disseminate these photos

This is not my home, fortunately. It's my neighbor two doors down. And I'm

here on behalf of a little boy name Vincent who lives in that home. He has 11 smart He has five

meters underneath his bedroom.

gas meters that will no doubt soon have smart meters in their place. Soon after the installation of Southern California Edison's smart meters, he started waking up in the middle of the night repeatedly crying, screaming, banging his head, hitting his head against the side of his crib. His parents had to take him away. And as soon as he went to stay with relatives, the problem went away. As soon as

he came back home, the problem reemerged. The opt-out doesn't help Vincent. His parents opted out. You'll see in the

picture there are two out of the eleven meters have the orange opt-out symbol. One is mine. The only reason I was

able to opt out is that I have a disabled son, so I qualify for the discount. But I

won't be able to if you allow Southern California Edison to increase the fee.

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

946

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

I'm not aware of any research in the long-term health effects of having banks of smart meters outside a children's bedroom. But I suspect if the research was done, it would not be good. I really think the CPUC has got to take this issue seriously. letters. You've ignored my

You've probably ignored hundreds of You need to institute

other letters already.

a moratorium immediately on the installation of banks and multiple smart meters and waive all fees to customers whose smart meters are part of a bank of smart meters. You can't leave it to the policy and the inaction of neighbors to opt out when they have no incentive to do so. They're not

directly affected by these banks of smart meters, so they don't see the need to pay for it, even if they have the ability to pay. And your failure to take action on this issue is potentially very discriminatory against people on a low income, people with disabilities, and minority communities who tend to live in apartment communities and condo communities such as ours, which is designed for people on a low to moderate income. I really urge you to take action.

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

947

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

We can choose not to use the smart phone. can choose not to use WiFi in our homes. But, as everybody said, this is a monopoly utility. We have no choice in the matter.

We

You have to give us a choice, and it has to be a free choice. (Applause) ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Thank you.

Emil Bereczky followed by Eric Wilson. STATEMENT OF MR. BERECZKY MR. BERECZKY: I'm Emil Bereczky. And

my wife is with me in the audience because she shares my concerns as well as several members of our family who have their own homes in Orange County. We have been concerned and objected to having these smart meters forced on us first because of concerns -- health concerns and then -- so the other thing we were concerned about is the cost later on because there are several ways that the utility actually is collecting money unfairly from us. First of all, to the best of our knowledge, these smart meters are more accurate. And when new equipment turns on,

they draw extra current for a extremely short

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

948

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

time.

And the old analog meters did not pick But these do. So we were kind of surprised that we

these up.

had to pay $75 and $10 a month.

And now

we're even more surprised that the utility has the nerve to ask us now for more money for opting out. And I believe $24, in other This is

words more money, for every month. really plain highway robbery.

They're saving

money, and they're charging for us. They're also saving money on doing away with a lot of meter readers, for example. So I was looking -- naively,

looking for a reduction of my electric cost. Instead we are getting paid more. So I request that the Public Utilities Commission summarily reject any increased monthly or opt-out fees for those who are concerned because of health effects or whatever good reason they want to opt out. Thank you very much. (Applause) ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Thank you.

Eric Wilson followed by John Black. STATEMENT OF MR. WILSON MR. WILSON: Okay. I want to thank you

for letting us speak. anything prepared.

I don't really have

Everyone here has pretty

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

949

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

much covered the same thing that I came up with. But I just want to say that personally I've been worried about these smart meters for a long time because I studied all the technology. And this WiFi

way that we're going -- everything's going WiFi. It's not going to stop with the Then it's

electric company, the gas company. going to be the water company.

Then it's

going to be smart appliances in your house. And they're all going to -- I mean, this is just going to go on and on and on. And this WiFi -- it goes off into the ionosphere. I mean, it's going to

change -- it could change the weather, the weather pattern. You know, we're having all I mean, I

this crazy weather, earthquakes.

think we're going to new technology when we really don't know what the long-term effects are going to be and what we're doing to the environment. You know, they talk about global warming and all this stuff. What about this I mean,

stuff that's going off into space? this is just the wrong way to go.

And it's all about the dollar. These companies -- they -- (applause).

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

950

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

They want to switch to time of use. They're going study the patterns of everybody when they use their power, and then they're going to go place them in this rate structure where it's paid time of use. And it's just

going to keep going up and up and up. And they've sold it to everybody that they're going to save money because they can get on-line and view their -- you know, when do they use electricity. bunch of bull. And, you know, I have so much information that I'd like to tell you, but it would take hours. We've wrote several And That is just a

letters to you guys, to Michael Peevey.

we just get this standard bull crap letter back saying "Tough luck. You're going to

accept this one way or another down the line." You know, I followed Edison. don't have a smart meter, but it doesn't matter because my neighbors have them. the one points right at my daughter's bedroom. And just last week -- she's And I

fifteen years old -- we thought she had the flu. She had the flu for like three days.

She's throwing up and everything. Take her to the hospital. Type 1

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

951

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

diabetes just like that. on.

A switch got turned And

I don't even have it in our family. Something

it's like the DR3, DR4 gene. turned it on.

And I think it's this WiFi because it goes right through your body. splits the DNA. That's it. And it

(Applause) ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: by Matt Corrigan. STATEMENT OF MR. BLACK MR. BLACK: Tustin. Hi. John Black from North John Black followed

I think the testimony here by

different people has already covered just about everything including the fact that the federal government did not mandate these meters. So this whole facade that we have to pay fees and all that -- where does the CPUC get off on doing that? What authority do

they have to charge us fees and try to keep up this game that the meters are mandated when the feds didn't have it mandated? And I appreciate what Marie Lubbres had to say about the corporations better wake up because we're not going to roll over anymore. This is getting old. We shouldn't They should

even have to have these meters.

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

952

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

be banned.

And definitely no fees.

But we The health

shouldn't even have these meters. effects are unacceptable. (Applause) ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA:

Thank you.

Thank you.

Matt Corrigan followed by Kathy Schlicht. STATEMENT OF MR. CORRIGAN MR. CORRIGAN: Honor. Good evening, your I'm a 20 year old

And Matt Corrigan.

from Mission Viejo. but I've opted out.

I do have a smart meter, I haven't quite

understood that yet how I have a smart meter but I've opted out. sticker on my meter. They put an orange Don't know whether I'm

not getting a signal or whether I'm not on-line, but that's another issue altogether. I have two concerns -- two major concerns. The first one is the opt-out

customer is taking the brunt of the economic impact on this. That should not be.

Economic class -- whatever, unemployment, inability to pay that fee, whatever it might be, it began with the $75 fee and $10 a month. Now I understand it's higher. So we have a mandatory agreement, and we're supposedly a voluntary opt-out customer. I don't quite understand the

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

953

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

enigma of that language. understand that.

I don't quite

My second concern -- and I stated this. I have two concerns -- is security.

The third-party analysts that are involved in analyzing the data -- that can go just about anywhere as we found out with privacy issues that are predominant in our society right now. The second issue is when the power goes, whether through a mandatory shutdown or through the opt-out program, that power is the only thing in most cases that controls the burglar alarm. And so when there's an

automatic shutdown, everyone knows that anyone with a burglar alarm system is automatically a new candidate. hasn't been answered. So that

So there's a lot of

questions that haven't been answered about this. The other thing about privacy is seems to be a main concern of a lot of people here tonight. And I think it's a pertinent So And

one and one that needs to be answered. it's an economic issue, a privacy issue. I think those are the main concerns that almost everyone in this room shares. thank you, your Honor.

And

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

954

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

(Applause) ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Thank you.

Kathy Schlicht, after which we're going to take a short five-minute break. STATEMENT OF MS. SCHLICHT MS. SCHLICHT: is Kathy Schlicht. Good evening. My name

An opt-out option is a

full choice if the fees are unaffordable. Why should any ratepayer have to pay a dime towards opting out? Maybe the ratepayers

should have been given the opportunity of opting in. Why should a ratepayer pay for Why should a

something we do not want?

ratepayer have to pay an extortion fee to protect one's privacy and security? As these smart meters are to control the usage, why should a smart meter ratepayer be penalized for opting out of conservative incentive by not reducing power usage during peak billing cycles? How our businesses and commercial centers able to take advantage of conservation incentives and not negatively impact its bottom line? Either way,

businesses lose by either loss of business hours or penalty for operating during peak high hours. ]

This is government institution at

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

955

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

its worse. My analogue meter works fine. smart meter ratepayer I haven't seen any significant decreases in their bills. read accounts where utility bills have doubled. Is this true? I have read accounts Is I've As a

where smart meters have started fires. this true?

I have read accounts where smart

meters have interfered with household devices, garage door openers, security sensors. heard. PG&E is replacing thousands of its smart meters because they are not working properly and are not giving proper readings. SCE is quitely replacing due to firmware problems. Why should ratepayers be punished Is this true? Pacemakers, we just

for not wanting problems from smart meters that are not safe and are a hazard, that are not properly functioning and given that they are an intrusion to personal lives? This is unjust, unreasonable, needs to be rescinded and our fees refunded. Smart

meters are unconstitutional unless ratepayers want to opt in. It is the duty of CPUC to ensure that we all have fair equal, access to the grid. Not punish those of us who wish to

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

956

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

protect our constitutional rights.

If

Americans are fully aware of Agenda 21, we would all rescind these smart meters. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: (Recess taken) ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: record. Our next speaker is Gary Stewart followed by Bernie Ramsey. STATEMENT OF MR. STEWART MR. STEWART: Your Honor, thank you for Let's go back on Off the record.

the opportunity to come speak before you. I'm Gary Stewart, I live in Mission Viejo. I would like to voice my objection

smart meter installation and to the fees involved in this application. We currently have a multitiered phone, or billing system which penalizes you quite severely for over tier usage of your utility. I realize that is not my real-time

application, but it does in some part make people think about their electrical usage and perhaps moderate the usage, especially when they know there is a time of fee. The newspapers and the radio system are real clear when we have a brownout situation so a prudent person shut down the application, washing their clothes, whatever

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

957

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

needs to be done. Because most of the items have already been mentioned, there is one thing I would like to touch on, and that is the mechanical device itself that transfers the information to the electric company. Now, in reading the information on the website, it says that the whole house is going to be wired, your radios, your refrigerators, all of these appliances are eventually going to have this type of system on it. Well, the question is who created I mean

this little magic little black box?

did Edison do it, or are they picking up the technology from another utility, another resource, another application? The point is if this technology is transferred to all these other appliances, this costs money. costing us money. month plus 10. We already know it is It is costing us $70 a

That means all of these

appliances that are purchased in the future are going to have to be more sensitive because all this new technology is going to have to be sold on it. This is not like a computer system where, you know, they are going to sell 10 million, 6 million. Wow, that is quick.

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

958

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 Thank you.

I object to the increase in prices.

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA:

Thank you.

Bernie

Ramsey followed by Barbara Geerlings. STATEMENT OF MS. RAMSEY MS. RAMSEY: evening. Yes, your Honor. Good I live

My name is Bernie Ramsey.

in Corona, obviously I'm opposed to the smart meter installation. I think everyone before me has spoken my passion, and my ideas. What I want

to suggest to you is that somehow we get some feedback as consumers as to how you guys make your decisions, and what part of what all has been said at these meetings was taken into consideration on the part of the consumers? Also, to the outcome of the CPUC meetings. The smart meter that was installed on my house was done so without my permission. I have a locked gate. I was on

the phone talking to a friend telling him about these smart meters and saying, well, mine isn't done yet. But I go out the next I said

day, sure enough it is on my wall.

who went into my property to install the smart meter? The meter that is on my house is attached to my bedroom wall. The gas meter,

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

959

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

they should install one, would be attached to my daughter's bedroom wall against the bed which she sleeps. For obvious reasons that

we've already heard here, I don't want that to happen. I want it removed. I prefer

analogue meter. cable TV.

I don't have a smart phone,

(Applause) MS. RAMSEY: To not be given a choice

whether or not I want this smart meter is just insulting to me and undemocratic to, say the least. So I hope that we are not just exercising our lungs here tonight, and that you take our considerations and our concerns back to the Commission and, you know, make a just decision based upon -- we are representative. We are not just here, one or

two people speaking from one or two organizations. We are representative of a

lot of people that are not here able to speak for themselves. consideration. I hope you take that into Thank you. Barbara Geerlings

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA:

followed by Patricia Linsky. STATEMENT OF MS. GEERLINGS MS. GEERLINGS: The smart meter program

was initially projected to cost $1.5 billion

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

960

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

but a reports the actual budget was 5 billion. Quite a short fall. We were told electric bills would go down, but in fact those who have analogue meters replaced by smart meters have had higher electric bills, in some cases substantially. Was this to make up the 3.5

billion shortfall in Edison's initial budget estimates? It certainly does not have

anything to do with the opt out, since the original budget or plan did not did not include an opt out. Is the move to overcharge those who opt out merely a ploy to force them into the program? In any case, the proposed fees are

unreasonable and pricing for essential service from a monopoly should not be based on the type of meter that is on their home. Edison is a monopoly and forcing us to either comply with their wishes or have services disconnected. Since they are a

publicly funded entity, they do not have that right in a free society. That is tyranny.

The CPUC's purpose is to regulate this monopoly. If Edison cannot handle

running two programs side by side the smart meter opt out, then break the monopoly and let other companies bid to do their job.

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

961

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

(Applause) MS. GEERLINGS: competition. Edison needs I

Are they incompetent, inept?

don't know, but if they can't run these programs, either is a possibility. just a money grab from them? The public needs to be protected from the oppressive tactics being used by these out-of-control entities. We look to Or is it

you to correct this and stand up for us, not promote agenda. My husband wanted to be here but works until 5:45 near John Wayne Airport. Unfortunately, a location that was selected that would prohibit him and most from attending forcing us a day before Christmas during rush-hour traffic? (Applause) MS. GEERLINGS: CPUC is doing whatever

possible to discourage public comments and information. Finally, perhaps they can fully fund the opt-out program by printing their advertising in smart meter promotional literature on other than four color very pricey glossy stock. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Patricia Linsky

followed by Eric Schaller.

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

962

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 installed. Mesa.

STATEMENT OF MS. LINSKY MS. LINSKY: Patricia Linsky from Costa

I'll be short and sweet, because we

have heard a lot from everyone. Basically I have a smart meter I was given no choice. The

reason I came to be involved because my Edison bill increased by as much as 20 percent per month for the same usage. The opt-out program came after the smart meter was installed to only protest -sorry. I not only protest those latest

opt-out increases, but the fact that there should be an opt-out penalty at all. I am the sole support of my 96-year-old mother who lives with me. As you

may guess, health of a woman that age is very fragile. I do not want her health

jeopardized because I cannot afford to pay an inflated Edison bill. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Eric Schaller Mr. Schaller,

followed by Elizabeth Plourde. S-c-h-a-l-l-e-r.

STATEMENT OF MR. SCHALLER MR. SCHALLER: I think that is me. I

can't walk up to the front.

I don't know if

you can hear me from back here? ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Ladies and

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

963

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

gentlemen, I want you to be very quiet because our reporter does need to hear as well and take down what he has to say. MR. SCHALLER: Over five years ago I I The It

decided to get rid of my cell phone.

haven't had a cell phone in five years. reason why I got rid of my cell phone. was disastrous to my health. it. I haven't had one since.

I got rid of

Over five years ago I got rid of my microwave oven. I got rid of the microwave

oven for the same reason that I got rid of the cell phone, it was not good for my health. I also got rid of all wireless in my home. I don't like people to use the cell

phones when they were around me because it emits dangerous radiation. I've never heard of a smart meter until about a month or two ago, and I found out that there were 12 of them against my bedroom wall, 12, and that they have been there for a year half. During that year half

my health came screeching down where I can't even walk anymore all because of the smart meter. So I'm -- I don't think that these utilities should be a monopoly. They don't

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

964

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

deserve it. people.

And they should take care of the

And it is not right to -- I mean I could have

they could have told me. avoided it, you know. phone.

It is like a cell

I can choose not to do a cell phone,

but you can't choose not to do the smart meter. is it. They put it in there on you, and that That is all I have to say. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Thank you.

Elizabeth Plourde followed by Dale Tyler. STATEMENT OF MS. PLOURDE MS. PLOURDE: Plourde. My name is Dr. Elizabeth I've

I'm a medical researcher. I'm a menopause

written three books. practitioner. the nation.

I do health consulting around

I became aware of smart meters when PG&E started putting them in in Northern California several years ago, because I got insomnia, headaches, heart palpitations, skin rashes. People are totally miserable, unable

to stay in their houses, having to leave their houses. In working with those people,

I realized I didn't want them in Southern California, and I did my best to try to stop them from coming in Southern California. Well, now my awareness is absolutely increased again because it is all the same

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

965

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

symptoms to the people here, the migraines, the insomnia, the skin rashes, it goes on. So I decided to start in -- looking at it, because I've been a researcher looking at biochemistry of our hormones. appalled. I am

I spent four months, and there is

absolutely no doubt that the chemical effect on every cell in the body, the blood cells, every single cell, the gut lining are responsible for. The absolute increase

in autism, increase in Alzheimer's, the increase in obesity, the increase in asthma. This is absolutely proven. I've

submitted a portion of my book to you, because there is just no doubt. And these

costs to our society are absolutely tearing our fabric of our families apart. is absolutely destroying us. is destroying us. The autism

The Alzheimer's

And these all have been

rising since electromagnetic radiation has been around. There is no doubt that they

have studies now, 13-year studies of following children on the obesity epidemic. So anyway, electromagnetic radiation, they should be banned completely. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: by Mark Mason. STATEMENT OF MR. TYLER Dale Tyler followed

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

966

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

MR. TYLER:

Yes, my name is Dale Tyler.

I live in Mission Viejo. I kind of think that the fees associated with opting out from the smart meters are unconscionably large. There

doesn't seem to be any support for the amounts that they are charging much less the increased proposed. I'd offer you a couple of suggestions. One suggestion is the day I

believe all the electric companies in the state offer a level pay system where you settle once a year based on your total usage for that year. That means that effectively

they can read the meter physically once a year. That physical reading should cost very

little, but maybe $50 if you want to use that. That should be the only charge to the

customer is that single reading for the year. It has also been pointed out to me what Southern California Gas, I believe, offers self-reading where you can go in and read your own meter and send a little postcard and send you a bill based on your reading. In addition to all of this, I've been in contact with San Diego Gas and Electric, because I believe that I've been

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

967

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

experiencing harmful interference with telemetry equipment in my home. And I've not

received any information from Southern California, San Diego Gas and Electric rather, or their representatives regarding the exact mechanisms their meters use to communicate with frequencies, and so forth. I think that -- I've reported a Part 15 violation to the FCC, and I think San Diego Gas and Electric should be responding, but they are not. Thank you. Thank you. Mark

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA:

Mason followed by John Smith. STATEMENT OF MR. MASON MR. MASON: Hello, your Honor. My name

is Mark Mason from Nuevo, California, which is in Riverside. I have a smart meter, and I also put on solar panels on my house to reduce my electricity usage. Since they put the new

smart meter in, my electricity usage has gone up considerably. why that was. And I couldn't understand

Why would it go up just I asked my

because of a new meter?

neighbors, their usage went up. And what is happening is the way they -- when they use the analogue meter, you would get 16 units in the summertime for

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

968

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

every day times 30 days in a month. now they -- you get the 16.

Well,

If you don't use

that full 16 units, they reduce it for that day. So before you know it you don't get any The next day you

of that portion back again.

turn your air-conditioning on, you are 9 tier, and they charge you 32 cents for that unit. The next day when I sell units, they So that is how they are

pay me 13 cents.

raising the rates without raising the rates. So people don't understand how that is happening. I think that no one should have to opt out of the smart meter; and if they do opt out, they shouldn't have to pay a fee. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Thank you. John

Smith followed by Sarah Mallon. STATEMENT OF MR. SMITH MR. SMITH: Hi, John Smith. I'm here

to address specifically the gas company's proposed fees for an opt out. My gas bill is only about 20 bucks a month. Their opt-out fees, they want to add

an additional $24 to my gas bill. In addition to that, they want to charge one-time penalty fee of $179 which is almost a year's worth of gas. Somehow this I

is a reasonable rate for an opt-out fee?

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

969

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

mean these numbers, if you look it, it is almost abusive. It is really, really bad.

I have a reasonable solution for people that want to opt out. In lieu of

paying any fees whatsoever, why not -- why doesn't the CPUC endorse any kind of self-metering program? nothing to this effect. You guys have done You guys have been

told about it, and there has been no push to endorse this whatsoever. I mean people can

report their readings either via website or phone system. readings. statistics. If the meter reading sounds abnormally low, they can send somebody out to verify the reading. But I mean that would be They can report their meter

The company already has

a reasonable compromise in place of paying any penalty fees whatsoever for an opt out. Just have customers enroll in self-metering program. solution. pushing it. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: average it anyways. meter. MR. SMITH: I've seen the utility They just It sounds like a reasonable I don't know why you guys are not

They don't read the

companies make up readings when they don't

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

970

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

have them.

These numbers are not that At the end of the day

necessary for them.

people are billing the utility. And the other issue is, you know, utility companies are supposed to be in the business of providing utilities gas, water, and electric, not selling people's personal information. This is not something they They should be in the

should be able to do.

business to provide power, electricity, et cetera, safely. Thank you. Thank you. Sarah

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA:

Mallon followed by Bruce Mayall. STATEMENT OF MS. MALLON MS. MALLON: My name is Sarah Mayall.

I was engaged to a national security councilman that runs the Rain Corporation. Since then I have been able to contact people that are the top scientists of this nation and other nations, and they are saying how dangerous this is. It was the U.N. that pushed the USDA to write a tag bill and put it on the Baylor's (phonetic) bank out, which us the taxpayers are paying for. We are paying for

these murder readers to be put on our homes. Folks, wake up. fraud. This is the biggest

And on top of it, you know, the NASA

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

971

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

report that this lovely woman back here was talking about, they have mountains of documentation of how dangerous this radiation is for our health, our children. And for God sake -- I'm part of the niche and bitch society, we can find out where people live, who works on your car, what you are doing, who is dating who. honey, we can make your lives horrible. And I

want all these politicians that are pushing this stuff, they better wake up, and they better wake up quick up. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Bruce Mayall

followed by Linda Anderson. STATEMENT OF MR. MAYALL MR. MAYALL: I've lived in the same

house using the same analogue meter for 27 years. The meter served Edison quite well,

and now I'm having to pay $10 a month, plus $75 initial fee just to use the same meter in the same house. wrong. I do not approve of that at all. There should be no rate at all. Whatever I find that fundamentally

that has been paid should be returned to people that have paid them. about the opt-out rate. The thing that bothers me, first of We are talking

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

972

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

all, I'm sort of a techie, an old techie would be the way to put it, I guess. I would

love to be able to monitor the energy use of my house very closely minute by minute. But

that is my business, that is nobody else's. I do have an 8 kilowatt solar system on my home. So it actually applies to me a

whole lot, because for the most part I generate the energy that I use plus a little extra sometimes. If I generate extra and I'm

using a smart meter, am I going to get a better deal from Edison because of the fact that I put energy back into the grid? Will

they give me a better price for having done that? I'm very much opposed to that. the violation of privacy I think is absolutely terribly. If you accept this, And

then the next thing the government gets in and you were really controlled. I have M.S., a heat-sensitive disease. If you shut off my air conditioner

in the middle of the summer because of the smart meter, I'm going to be one unhappy camper. Thank you very much. Thank you. Linda

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA:

Anderson followed Terry McCulloh. STATEMENT OF MS. ANDERSON

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

973

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

MS. ANDERSON:

This is not easy for me

public speaking, but I became homeless because Edison came in and installed a grid of 5 smart meters on the apartment building I'm moving in, and there is another five right in front of me, another five. apartment, so 20. I felt it immediately when it clicked into the building. And then I told He Lots of

the guy, please take that off right now.

took off one, and he left on the other four. I said I can feel it in my head, I feel it in my feet. Anyways, I had to move out of my apartment and put everything in storage. It

took me 10 months to find somewhere to live because everywhere you go, there are smart meters everywhere. I have sensitivity to it. I

I've worked on the computer many hours. didn't know the things at my feet were radiating me.

So now I know all about it.

It is unbelievable that people do not listen. And I have clients that have I'm a travel agent. I

actually died.

believe people that have decide in their 30s from cell phones, from radiating themselves and they don't know it, the headaches, the heat, all the symptoms.

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

974

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

It is really a terrible thing. I'm, you know, 10 months I was homeless. finally found somewhere that doesn't have cell phone towers around it. everywhere. They are

So I

If you look on antennasearch.com

everywhere you look they were putting more and making people ill and making people die of cancer, little children, all ages, teenagers, 20 year olds, 30 your olds, people don't have a clue. serious problem. Thank you. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Thank you. It is an extremely People need to listen.

STATEMENT OF MR. McCULLOH MR. McCULLOH: to see you again. I wanted to finish up where I started off last time. I just wanted to I guess I'm last. Good

reiterate a couple of things I heard here. The health effects, notwithstanding, but they are scary, that is not really my beef. beef is really the justification the utilities' have done to justify the cost and actual opt-out fee. I would like to say I'm a retired communications network engineer, semiretired because I still have two kids in college. I've installed communications with military My

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

975

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

and commercial customers.

And then utilities

are using the FCC radiation when -- that is kind of a joke, it is not a task, neither the NTIA or FCC for biological radiation limits. Their main task is interference between services, that is their main. Anyway, in terms of the costs associated -- the network operations costs, it is a mesh network that should not be even considered because networks inherently -- so that is not an issue. There is some

development costs that are associated with it. Something is going on there. The O&M, Legacy with the old billing system they mentioned -- the billing system, the billing record for a analogue meter, it is small subset. The new billing system

should easily incorporate the old Legacy system without any overhead or any headaches for migrating or integrating. The biggest cost, the only one that is legitimate is the meter reading. And I've

communicated this with my utility over the years. They can be easily handled with Almost everyone

innovative Web techniques. has a cell phone, Internet.

Most of those, I mean those costs $30-40 dollars, 1.4 percent of the population

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

976

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

that they didn't say are opt-out customers. This just doesn't -- that really doesn't pass the smell test. And then, you know, the self-read could easily be done. They talk about how

inaccurate it is, but I have data to share with you. I put another chart in for the

record for this one, basically my own personal experience with a couple of properties -- I know it is up. one, sorry. In one case it is formation of a dispute. I had smart meter, and June I opted I'm the last

out and had to put the analogue back in. They came and couple of weeks, two weeks apart and then stopped estimating. It

stopped reading and started estimating way higher than even historical. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Mr. McCullough, you

are going to have to conclude. MR. McCULLOH: Okay. I've heard in the

past somehow these meters are overcharging. I figured it has to do with them estimating high, way high. And then basically on

estimates on top of estimates it gets -- and then when I push back, it gets paid for what I actually use, and late fees on charges that was never really clear.

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

977

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

So basically I'm going to use a formal dispute. I have similar properties Thanks. Thank you,

very similar situation. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Mr. McCullough.

That is all the speakers who have signed up for comment. Is there anybody else

who has not signed up who wishes to commitment at this point? STATEMENT OF MS. PERATA MS. PERATA: Yes. Ma'am, if you would

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA:

like to make a comment you can come up. Please state your name, spell your last name. You will be given two minutes. MS. PERATA: I'm Virginia Perata.

I propose that you ban them totally. You are destroying people's health. evident. It is

My daughter who runs five miles a And she is a

day, very active, exercises. real estate broker.

She was showing a house,

and all of a sudden she couldn't climb the stairs. Her heart was pounding, she just So that happened

couldn't catch her breath.

a couple more times, she said, gees, I've got to do something. She went to the heart doctor. The

heart doctor put her on the MRI, checked her

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

978

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

out, no problems.

Put her on a monitor for

two days, no problem, and told her she was probably stressed out. Well, when I was talking to her I said did you have a smart meter put in? said gees, I don't know. she did. She

Then she found out She found

She got on the Internet.

out they could affect your health, your heart. And so she said she called up Edison and she said you know what, come take it out. They said you've got to pay $75. don't care. I don't want. She said I

She is fine now.

So if it is that and all the things that you heard that these people said, how can you even think about leaving them there if they are there -(Applause) ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Ma'am, I'm sorry, if

you need to say anything, can you please come up. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: wanted one more minute. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: are off the record. (Off the record) ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: record. We will go on the No, we're not. We Yes, I just ]

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

979

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

We are concluded with this hearing. We are now off the record. (Whereupon, at the hour of 7:37 p.m., this matter having been continued to 2:00 p.m., December 20, 2012, at Santa Rosa, California, the Commission then adjourned.) * * * * *

PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

980

BEFORE THE PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA

Application of Pacific Gas and Electric Company for Approval of Modifications to its SmartMeter™ Program and Increased Revenue Requirements to Recover the Costs of the Modifications. (U39M) And Related Matters.

) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) )

Application 11-03-014; A.11-03-015; A.11-07-020

CERTIFICATION OF TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDING I, Michael J. Shintaku, Certified Shorthand Reporter No. 8251, in and for the State of California do hereby certify that the pages of this transcript prepared by me comprise a full, true and correct transcript of the testimony and proceedings held in the above-captioned matter on December 18, 2012. I further certify that I have no interest in the events of the matter or the outcome of the proceeding. EXECUTED this 18th day of December, 2012.

_________________________ Michael J. Shintaku CSR No. 8251

981

BEFORE THE PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA

Application of Pacific Gas and Electric Company for Approval of Modifications to its SmartMeter™ Program and Increased Revenue Requirements to Recover the Costs of the Modifications. (U39M) And Related Matters.

) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) )

Application 11-03-014; A.11-03-015; A.11-07-020

CERTIFICATION OF TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDING I, Ana M. Gonzalez, Certified Shorthand Reporter No. 11320, in and for the State of California do hereby certify that the pages of this transcript prepared by me comprise a full, true and correct transcript of the testimony and proceedings held in the above-captioned matter on December 18, 2012. I further certify that I have no interest in the events of the matter or the outcome of the proceeding. EXECUTED this 18th day of December, 2012.

_________________________ Ana M. Gonzalez CSR No. 11320

Sign up to vote on this title
UsefulNot useful