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BEFORE THE PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE AMY YIP-KIKUGAWA, presiding

Application of Pacific Gas and Electric Company for Approval of Modifications to its SmartMeter™ Program and Increased Revenue Requirements to Recover the Costs of the Modifications. (U39M) And Related Matters.

) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) )

PUBLIC PARTICIPATION HEARING

Application 11-03-014; A.11-03-015; A.11-07-020

REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT Santa Barbara, California December 14, 2012 Pages 710 - 821 Volume - 7

Reported by:

Wendy M. Pun, CSR No. 12891

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 SUSAN ROMANYK SALUD CARBAJAL JOYCE GYORFFY ROGER KNOX GILL KAZMERZAK DONNA TURNER BERIT STEN TRACY FERNANDEZ JUDITH ISHKANIAN STEPHANIE CREE SHOLOM JOSHUA LAWRENCE GUST HYLA FETLER GEORGE MILLER DIANE HAWKINS JOAN RENAHAM SASHA LETTERMAN ZAVIER CARBAGA CAROLINE ASLANIAN BOB HOLZ STACEY HALL LEROY MOORE SUSAN STEWART PEDRO NAVA

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MARGARITA CORRAL JULIE CRESSWELL BRUCE MCKAIG CASSANDRA AUERBACH DELFINA MOTT SUE WILLIAMSON PATTY PAGALING JOYCE HOBSON GARY VANDEMAN ANN CROSBY JEAN CHEESMAN LEIGH HYNDMAN JAMES CONGER Patty CLOSE CINDY SAGE WILLIAM SMOLENSKE JUDY TANAKA SHIRLEY FORCE DENNIS LAACK TERRY MC CULLOUH CURT JAHNKE LAWRENCE BOEHM ROBERT PLACE BRIAN ROSEN VERONICA HAVERBECK MICHELLE GOULD CHARLES HEWITT BARBARA SCOLLIN

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ROSS STEIN NANCY BERTELSEN GEORGE DAVIDSON

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SANTA BARBARA, CALIFORNIA DECEMBER 14, 2012 - 2:57 P.M * * * * *

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE YIP-KIKUGAWA: We'll be on the record. The Commission will come to order. This is the time and place set by the Commission for the public participation hearing in Applications 11-03-014, 11-03-015, and 11-07-002 addressing cost and cost allocation issues associating with providing an option for gas electric utility customers who do not wish to have a wireless smart meter installed in their residential location. Okay. Can you hear me now? Okay.

I need to talk right into this. everybody -- or good afternoon.

Good morning I am

Administrative Law Judge Amy Yip-Kikugawa. And seated to my left is Carol Brown, who is chief of staff for the assigned Commissioner, President Peevey. And a public participation is exactly what it sounds like. What we want is

to give all of you, the public, an opportunity to comment on this proceeding and to express your views. If you have not yet

done so and you wish to make a comment today,

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please go outside to the public advisors' desk and sign-in, and they will give me your name. Before we begin, I do have a couple housekeeping matters. court reporter present. First is I do have a So this hearing is

being transcribed, and the transcript will be provided to each of the Commissioners. So

when I call your name, please come up and speak into the microphone. Speak very

clearly, very slowly so that the reporter can get all of the information and properly record what you have said. interrupt one another. We are planning to run two hours for today's hearing, and there will be a 3-minute limit for speakers. I'm sorry. About 3:00 o'clock -Please don't

About 4:00 o'clock, we will be And

taking a short break, and then resuming.

again, because this is a public participation hearing, there is no question and answer session. We're not here to answer questions.

We're here to hear from all of you. What I'd like to do first is give a brief overview of how this procedure is going to be -- the procedural aspects of the decision and how a decision will be made. And it's helpful just so that you know how

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important the public participation hearings are for us as part of our decision-making process. Earlier this year, the Commission had issued three separate orders which directed Pacific Gas and Electric Company, Southern California Edison Company, and San Diego Gas and Electric Company to modify their advance metering infrastructure programs to include an option for residential customers to opt out of having a wireless smart meter at their location. The order

also established a Phase 2 to consider the cost that can be recovered from ratepayers as well as how those costs would be paid. And that's what we're doing right now is looking at, you know, cost and cost allocation of the opt-out programs that were offered for the three utilities. Now,

Southern California Gas Company has not yet been ordered to have an opt-out program. They do have an application in with the Commission. It is under consideration. But

in the interim, Southern California Gas and also actively participating in Phase 2 and working at providing their cost and looking at permanent opt-out fees. For this proceeding, we have had all

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three utilities serve testimony.

And the

intervenors, they are have various consumer groups, have also served testimony on what they felt the appropriate costs would be. We've had evidentiary hearings. Witnesses

have been subject to cross-examination, and we're now in the process of receiving briefs from the intervenors and from the utilities. And just so you know, the intervenors who are actively participating are consumer groups such as the Commission's own Division of Ratepayer Advocates, The Utility Reform Network, and other consumer alliances. Alliance. We also have the Consumer Power They are actively participating,

as well as a large number of other consumer advocates. For the proceeding, we are now going through public participation hearings where we're going to be getting input from all of you. And I realize that not everyone can

come out and speak at a public participation hearing. And I do encourage people to write

to the Commission care of the Public Advisors Office or even send e-mails to me expressing, you know, your concerns or your comments or observations about this proceeding and how the cost and cost allocations should be

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considered.

I do go through all the letters.

And I will just note that in the past week or so, I received a large number of letters from people saying I won't be able to come to the public participation hearing, but I want to let you know this is how I feel. read all the letters. So I do

These letters also get

passed to all the Commission offices, so I know Ms. Brown reads them all as well. Once the -- all of the evidence is put into the record and the proceeding is closed for additional evidence, I am going to be considering everything in the record in writing a Proposed Decision. And that

Proposed Decision will be given to the Commissioners for their consideration. And

the Commissioners may or may not adopt what I proposed, but if they do, that will be a -- a vote of the Commission. Okay. I would also like to, before

we go onto the public comments section, just introduce a couple people. First, right down

here to my right is Kyle DeVine, who is from the Commission's Public Advisors Office. what I'd like to do is just have her very briefly explain what the public advisor's office does. MS. DE VINE: Well, I'll be brief And

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because I know we're here to hear you speak, but the Public Advisors Office is here to facility the public hearings. I and my two

coworkers out there at the table are there if you have any questions about logistics or anything like that. Also, one of my

coworkers is fluent in Spanish, so if anyone needs some assistance in Spanish, please step outside and ask her for help. great. That would be

And thank you for letting me say

those few words. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: All right. Okay. Thank you.

The other thing to let

all of you know is I have Mr. Yamashita over here who is from Southern California Edison Company. He is with regulatory affairs. And

Mr. Behles also over here from Pacific Gas and Electric Company. If you have any

questions or concerns that you would like to direct to them, you may do so after the hearings. You can speak with them. You also have outside in the entrance customer service representatives from Pacific Gas and Electric Company and I believe Southern California Edison Company who can help with any billing questions you have. If you would like to sign up for the

opt-out option at this point, you may speak

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with them as well. Okay. So why don't we proceed with And when I

the public comment at this point.

do call your name, please come up and speak again directly into the microphone. And we will start with Susan Romanyk. If you could come up, please? STATEMENT OF SUSAN ROMANYK MS. ROMANYK: MS. BROWN: her? UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: MS. ROMANYK: you. The proposed fee increase will result in an excessive financial burden for me specifically because I'm already paying three opt-out fees, my own and the fees of my two neighbors on either side of my condo because their smart meters were causing me heart palpitations, which is triggering my tachycardia on a daily basis. After the smart meters were removed at my expense and at my request, my heart palpitations stopped. unbearable to live in. It made my house Currently my opt-out Hello? No. Hello? Thank Hello? Hello?

Can you in the back hear

fees now are $585 a year just for keeping this product from harming me in my own home.

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The fee increase is going to raise my costs to $864, plus $89 any time one of my neighbors moves because they are both rentals. This is an inordinate amount of money for me to pay just to avoid the detrimental effects of the device, one I feel has not been adequately evaluated adequately or tested given my experience. I can't think

of another instance in my consumer, customer life where I have to pay a company in order not to be harmed by their product. I ask the fee not be increased and that there's a metal disability waiver or reduction program implemented for customers like myself who are opting out just not to be effected by the smart meters, that entire condo and apartment complexes be allowed to opt out as well as local governments. So if

the opt-out program become unaffordable for my, I'm not sure where me or other people like me are going to live. As a cost-saving measure, I advocate that customers be allowed to read their own meters monthly, and then a field representative could read them quarterly so that could capture any misreads by the customer. I also advocate that more

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independent research be done on the health effects of smart meters in real life settings. Thank you. Okay. Salud

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA:

Carbajal, the First District Supervisor, please. STATEMENT OF SALUD CARBAJAL MR. CARBAJAL: Your Honor Yip-Kikugawa, On behalf

welcome to Santa Barbara County.

of the Board of Supervisors, I want to extend a warm welcome to you for taking the time to come to our area to address this very important issue. I also wanted to let you know that my staff are looking at how we can get maybe the Planning Commission Hearing Room also to become available so that we could lessen the crowdedness in the room and people could still have access to the hearing and then maybe come up and speak when they need to or you call their name. Thirdly, I wanted to draw to your attention that our Santa Barbara County Board of Supervisors is on record asking the PUC to consider a no cost opt-out option because unless -- unless it's truly an affordable opt-out option, it's really not a feasible mechanism for people to be able to pursue,

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especially our elderly or our low income individuals. So I just wanted to draw that We did submit a letter

to your attention.

dated July 25th, 2011, as such. And, again, just wanted to welcome you to Santa Barbara County and really appreciate you to taking the time to consider this very important issue in our community. Thank you. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Joyce Gyorffy. I'm Okay.

sorry if I'm mispronouncing the names. Yes. Knox. STATEMENT OF JOYCE GYORFFY MS. GYORFFY: And that will be followed by Roger

My name is Joyce Gyorffy.

I'm here with my husband from Newberry Park. We have opted out on the Edison meters. smart meters. opt-out fees. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: MS. GYORFFY: Louder. I'm The

So we have to budget for the

Can you hear me?

just a little nervous too. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Okay.

Let's go off the record. (Off the record) ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: record. MS. GYORFFY: Joyce Gyorffy from Let's go back on the

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Newberry Park.

We have opted out on the We are budgeting. We

Edison smart meters. are both retired.

To do this -- we do not

feel that we should have been put in this position in the first place to have to keep our old meter. We lived in our house for 37 years in that area. I understand that the gas

company now too wants to go to the smart meters. I object to that. I have just had a

new meter put in by the gas company, and if they're going to try the same thing with opt-out fees, I don't -- I don't understand this. Maybe somebody can explain this to me. I'm just nervous right

I'm -- I'm sorry. now.

I'm not used to this. I'm just thinking of all this money.

The taxes are going up.

Everything is just I -- I

-- just going out of sight for us. wish I could say more. upset over this.

I'm just a little

We were never consulted.

We don't even know that these smart meters are safe in any respect. opted out. And that's why we

And for the gas -- if we have to

do the same thing, I don't know where we're going to be monetarily wise. The economy for this state is bad as it is. Those people that were reading --

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that are reading the meters still continue to read the meters. You know, how can you do You say we were told I

away with their jobs?

that they're assigned somewhere else. don't believe this.

I have many questions to

ask of these people here from -- from the two utility companies. To be put in this

position to have to pay this extra fees -- if you wanted the smart meters, why don't you bill those people? Thank you. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Thank you. Roger That's all have I to say.

Knox, followed by Gill Kazmerzak. STATEMENT OF ROGER KNOX MR. KNOX: Yes. Good afternoon. I'm

Roger Knox, and I've been a resident in Santa Barbara for 47 years. The serious issues

concerning the installation and operation of these smart meters are many. After hearing

testimony about the safety and intrusiveness of these new devices, I have real concerns about the necessity of ever having them installed in our homes. I have personally talked with my current Edison meter reader, and he thanked me for saving his job. I watched a Corix guy

do an install job on one of the houses in my neighborhood. Here's the picture right here

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of this guy in action.

He's dressed up like

a hazmat operator or a lab technician at the Livermore Labs ready to handle radioactive isotopes. Is there something about this that

I don't know? I have declined to have one of these radiation emitters mounted on the outside wall, 10 feet from our bedroom. I am part of

the opt-out homeowners who refuse to have installation of one of these things on my house and have said no to keep my original one that is still working just fine. And I

have to pay an extra $10 per month for the privilege of keeping old faithful. I have heard now that Edison and the Gas Company are ganging up on the homeowners to hand them -- or have them opt out bills -or hand them opt out bills for both companies. And to add insult to injury they

want to double the final opt-out fees just stay out of their monopoly. What a rip off.

This whole thing is causing nothing by trouble for homeowners who are happy with what they have. And I'm requesting justice

to be done to stop this nonsense and abuse of power. Thank you very much. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: And then the next

speaker will be Donna Turner.

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MR. KAZMERZAK: Kazmerzak?

You did say Gill

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Turner will be after you.

Yes.

And Donna

STATEMENT OF GILL KAZMERZAK MR. KAZMERZAK: My name is Gill

Kazmerzak, and I chose to opt out of the Southern California smart meter, and that was due to the uncertainties that I have been reading about on the internet and various brochures that were sent out. And it listed

all the dangers and possible public health issues associated with exposure to the radio frequencies being emitted 24 hours a day, seven days a week. These meters are located right outside our kitchen window. We're there

quite a few hours of the day, and so I was concerned and I did opt out. Now, there's also a letter from the Santa Barbara City Council that wrote to Southern California Edison for permission to opt out. And in there, the international

agency for research on cancer listed these radio frequencies as Group 2B carcinogens. And the long term effects of low emission radio frequencies on human body and brain are to this day unknown at this time.

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The cost to -- to -- to keep my own meter that has been operating for 50 years and also the -- there's also a $75 cost to do this opt out. And then in addition to that

there's a $10 per month to have my existing, original analog meter read. Now, I see where

the Southern California Gas Company is also proposing these smart meter for their facilities. And in their case, they're

asking or their proposing to add $126 to opt out of this cost and an additional $24 per month to read this particular meter. Now, Pacific Gas and Electric -- I'm just wondering if the water company is going to be next in line to try and get some extra funds. Thank you. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: very much. Ms. Turn followed by Berit Sten. After Ms. Turner will be Berit Sten. STATEMENT OF DONNA TURNER MS. TURNER: I appreciate the Okay. Thank you

opportunity to speak, and it's not going to be from any scientific knowledge that I've read. It's all going to be about me

personally. The problem is this. I first

noticed that I was having problems at home

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all the time. problems. what it is.

I was having all kinds of

And, you know, I try to figure out I found out that it was the And

television, and it was the computer.

thank God I have a scientific son that worked in science. And he purchased a bracelet for So I use that. I

me that works.

Now we have the smart meters. opted out. to kill me.

It's like, my God, they're going What good did it do because the

neighbors on the both sides did not opt out. Now I live with this night and day to stay alive because it really affects me personally. I was raised in Ventura County. I

graduated with about 300 students, and I will tell you that one-third of them are deceased. And I think I'm young. I'm only 76. They're

dead, and the majority of them have died from cancer. First we had the herbicides and

pesticides, and now we have the electromagnetic radiation that's trying to kill us. I understand companies. intelligent. They're

They go out and they look at We

all this and they say, "Wait a minute. can save all the money. thing.

We can do the right It's up-to-date.

This is very easy.

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The cell phones are worse. we're using are worse."

The things that

But what they're doing, then -- they don't realize when they test this -- they're adding to it. So when I was growing up, I

didn't even know what the word cancer meant. Now, we have -- we just had TB and polio. Now we have all these cancer wards every where. So if you think they aren't going to

be growing and more people are going to be dying, you're out of your minds. The day the smart meters went into effect, every bird -- I live in Minors Oaks. I'm under the oak trees. You can go out and

you could sit and you could watch the birds any time. They left. All of the birds left. I find that

They're smarter than we are. amazing. They all left.

And now -- they've

waited a while.

Some of them will come back But

because they know where the water is.

they know they can go back across the street to the hills and leave again. Down the street from us there were all the crows that have a favorite spot, and they started running around like they were mad wild. And the pigeons that were up by I don't know

Vons, they took off and left. where they went to.

I'm telling you the

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birds are smarter than we are, and we better watch out what we're doing to ourselves. Thank you very much. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: by Tracy Fernandez. STATEMENT OF BERIT STEN MS. STEN: My name is Berit Sten. I'm Berit Sten, followed

a residential homeowner in Summerlin. opted out. The reason is the meter is

I have

directly on the other side of where my bed is. I'm very concerned about that. I also

feel that the opt-out fee and the monthly $10 fee that I pay is extortion. on record for saying that. I have a feeling these fees will be found illegal down the road, and I'm hoping to get a credit at that time. But I am very I'd like to go

very concerned about the meter being directly on the other side of the wall where my bed is. And the contours don't allow for me to I'm also concerned that

rearrange the room.

my neighbor's meter is about 15 feet from my home. For financial reasons, she has not

opted out, but I'm concerned about the effect that has on me also. Thirdly, I'd like to say that a few years back in another home, I read my own electrical meter because we had a guard dog.

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It's very easy to read the meter. I had a postcard. circles.

Very easy.

There were five round

I filled in the arrows, and I

mailed it in. And I also feel that the utility agencies should hire a -- an independent contractor to read all the meters simultaneously. money. That would save a lot of

And if I didn't say it before, I

concur with all the prior comments, so I won't repeat myself. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Thank you.

Tracy Fernandez, followed by Judith Ishkanian. Ishkanian. STATEMENT OF TRACY FERNANDEZ MR. FERNANDEZ: The burden of Tracy Fernandez? And then Judith

guaranteeing the safety of the new meters falls on the utilities, but the data on the health effects of escalating cumulative exposure from multiplying sources over the long term, in my case over 20 years, and that of a child, 75 years, is woefully inadequate. To avoid the short term study that has suggested it is a health risk, the utilities now want me to pay every month on the CARE Program an exorbitant 240 percent more than my average of 13.46 for gas and an exorbitant

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300 percent from my average 10.30 for electricity, plus an absurd initial fees. It costs the utilities no more to continue on with the status quo. If anyone

should pay an initial fee, it is customers who will receive the expensive new meters, have them installed, tested, connected to new communications networks, and so forth. They're not charged an initial fee because we are all already paying for the research, development, manufacturer, testing, and so forth of the atrociously expensive new meter systems with the ever increasing rates for basic utility services, in addition to having the old meters read every month. And this at

a profit of close to 11 percent for the utilities. There's no talk about reducing these rates once the new systems are in place, nor have we been told when in the distant future the utilities will recoup the tremendous capital expenditures involved in establishing the new systems, if it will be -- if they will be less costly to operate than the old systems with meter readers. However, there's no need now or ever to have my old meters read every month. I

can read them myself as I do now and report

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the figures to the utilities myself.

Any

discrepancies can be easily tracked at any convenient time by, say, a part-time or contract worker who happens to be in the neighborhood on some new meter screw up. there could be a personality for underreporting. Right now I report my earnings for the CARE discount without the utilities checking my income every month. self regulating programs of giant corporations in lieu of more stringent environmental laws. It's simple. Opt out My motto is And

with no charges -- opt out with no charges and read your own meters. If I have time? Unless the

utilities plan to control night and day, there's no way I can change any gas or electricity use, which makes hourly metering useless unless the utilities want to use differential rates so then I have to have lights on at noon, cook at midnight, and heat during the summer so that I won't be charged extra. And they're also introducing these

rates for -- for businesses now. MS. DE VINE: MR. FERNANDEZ: knocking that off? Times up. Did that count with

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MS. DE VINE: MR. FERNANDEZ:

I gave you more time. Is that on the record? Thank you.

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA:

Judith Ishkanian, followed by Sally Jordan. STATEMENT OF JUDITH ISHKANIAN MS. ISHKANIAN: because of an illness. Ishkanian. Ms. Jordan had to leave I am Judith

I am speaking before you for And Judge Kikugawa, we

myself and family.

really thank you for the opt-out decision that was part of the Phase 1 of the decision process. And I have to say I was so thrilled

over the opt-out decision and not to have the smart meter in our home for health reasons that I'd rather ignore the opt-out fees. And this is Phase 2 specifically for opt-out fee consideration, so I'm going to concentrate on that. And I have a question.

Are these high opt-out fees -- do the utilities want to turn people away from opting out? Because I know many people who

have feared the opt-out fees and stayed with the smart meter. And I know smart meter And

people, they ask me why I'm concerned.

they don't even know they have a smart meter. And so it will take about a year for them to discover why -- that they have a smart meter

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and if it has problems that may make them want to opt out. And what will the fees be in a year from now because, as people have already mentioned -- I won't repeat it. The gas

company will combine with Edison for a double fee if it keeps going the way it is. So that

was brought home to me by a businessman friend and he said it this way that made my fuzzy brain understand it. But he said a fee

is a free unearned money to either a business or a government. If it is not part of And so he brushed

budgeted operational cost.

aside the $75 fee and pointed to the month by month fee as the sticking point. what? A fee for

And month by month from millions of

people is a huge slush fund of money that's beyond operational costs and should be considered in any deliberations. What is wrong with this picture? In California, which I'm a native Californian and so is my husband, we have a privileged position with our utility companies because they are both public monopolies but they also are private investor driven companies. So we

have then captive customers because of the utility monopolies. But we also have private So with these

sources of investment capital.

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captive customers -- which we are.

We must

pay for a product that we do not want and do not ask for and until the CPUC Decision of Phase 1, we could not escape. Thank you for allowing us to escape, but I would like to remind you what Supervisor Carbajal said. The County Board

of Supervisors voted five to nothing for a policy of no-cost opt outs for customers and. We as grassroots citizens and utility customers are advocating the same thing. We

are here to request the CPUC to do the right thing and order utility companies to pay for their own unsolicited programs and let them explain themselves to their stockholders. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Thank you.

Stephanie Cree followed by Sholom Joshua. STATEMENT OF STEPHANIE CREE MS. CREE: complex. Hi. I live in a condo

It has several buildings with 8 to The

10 apartments in each building.

electrical meters for each building are all in a closet at one end of each building. happen to live on the end with all the meters. That means I have 9 EMF producing I

meters on the other side of my kitchen wall. The meters seem to work in a series such that

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there is always one of them going 24/7, although this was one of the things I was told wouldn't happen. My washing machine is next to the closet. Whenever I do laundry, I experience

dizziness, and washing clothes in my washing machine was the only household chore that I actually liked doing. So now no more So I feel I

domestic goddess status for me.

have to move from my home of 22 years, being forced out in order to protect my health, which is vulnerable anyway due to respiratory problems. I cannot risk adding anything else, and the increased anxiety from all of this is too much. I don't -- don't know if I can Will anyone want it with Can I morally place Will I even

sell my condo.

these meters there?

someone else in this situation?

get the market value, or has my property value gone down as a result of these meters? I called to everyone that I could think of. City Council, got one snarky reply. Reps, no reply. State

The Governor, no reply.

Many times I called Edison and pleaded with them to not do this, to move the meters to the individual condos. Their

responses were mean and nasty, with only one

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exception, a very nice woman who then referred me to more nasty people. Then there

was the customer service person who outwardly tried to help, only to play cat and mouse with direct communication. I never spoke to

her as her evasion tactics were smooth. Edison Company is not my friend anymore. Are you going to listen? Are you

going to act on my behalf?

No one else has.

This is not fair, not equitable, not moral. I am frustrated beyond my ability to deal with this. This has stressed me out far too

much and has impeded my continuing effort to heal from respiratory ailments, which if I lose, I could backslide. Opting out is pointless unless everyone else in my building opts out. With

a cost attached, my neighbors won't do it. They did until there was a fee. care. They don't

It's not affecting them because I'm

the only one within the 10 feet problem. MS. DE VINE: MS. CREE: Times up.

Times up? Yes. Yes, ma'am. Thank you. Thank you very much.

MS. DE VINE:

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: MS. CREE: Okay.

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA:

Sholom Joshua, followed by Lawrence

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Gust. STATEMENT OF SHOLOM JOSHUA MR. JOSHUA: Honor. Good afternoon, your

I'm glad to be here as I'm a strong I

believer in public participation hearings. only have one caveat on that, and that is that we're having this hearing way along the line after just about all the smart meters have already been installed. Why didn't we

have public participation hearings before any meters were installed? I want to add some things that I found from my own research not provided by Edison, though I did read everything that Edison made available. I found out that

there has been no real world testing of these meters. The -- this is not from some

disgruntled blogger on Youtube or anything of that nature. This is coming from the

California Department of Public Health, Environmental Health Division. They have

pointed out that any testing of these meters have been done in controlled situations, not in the real world where children are walking by them, putting their hands on them. are living 6 inches away from them. In Ojai we have people that even have these meters inside their house. They People

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are really panicked, and yet they are stuck with that. You know, what strikes me all

through this is this thing about having a guiding principle on the part of corporations, and in this case obviously Edison. Where was their guiding principle?

I am pretty informed about what's happening in my community and in the state and so on, but I -MS. DE VINE: MR. JOSHUA: One minute. Thank you.

I didn't know about these meters until they were already rolling out in Northern California. some kind of notice? Why weren't we given Why weren't we given

some kind of questionnaire by Edison saying, "Do you really want a wireless meter? really want this kind of microwave environment created in your community?" I live in Ojai. natural environment. We like to have a Do you

We like to have an It has become

uncluttered life up there.

very cluttered because of these meters, and this isn't fair to these people. We need to

have an opt in for those few strange people who wanted this and not an opt out for everybody like everybody here. We can all go

home happy if we just remove these things and

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go back to the original meters. MS. DE VINE: MR. JOSHUA: Time. Thank you. Thank you.

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA:

Mr. Gust, followed by Hyla Fetler. STATEMENT OF LAWRENCE GUST MR. GUST: Your Honor, thank you for I'm Larry Gust. I

the opportunity to speak.

have an education in electrical engineering, and building biology. And I teach about the

effects of electromagnetic radiation for the International Society for Building Biology and Oncology. I had a career before this

with Dow Chemical. My clients are referred to me by MDs who have problems with their environments, and my job is to check these environments and make recommendations on what to do. And in

my practice, environmental or rather electric hypersensitivity syndrome was nothing in 1993 when I began this, and today it's a major portion of my practice. MDs are reporting to

me that 3 percent of their clients or patients are arriving the day that smart meters are installed with problems -- health problems, and that another 15 percent of their clients or patients are arriving within a month or so after these meters are

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installed. I think that the smart meter rollout where people who are wanting to opt out and have medical problems are said to be -- are head cases. They have psychiatric problems.

And they have credibility because of the number of people who are coming down with these problems just after these meters are installed. Everybody couldn't be crazy. This malady knows no particular sex, race, or income level. There are many people

who are in poor health who are seeming to have these problems. It is unfair to have a

opt-out fee imposed upon people who cannot barely afford their own living requirements. So I think that opt-out fees should be removed totally. minute -MS. DE VINE: MR. GUST: comment. Yes, one minute. And since I have one more

-- let me make one more

The choice of these meters

transmitting by RF through the environment is only one choice. They. Could be

transmitting through the internet through hardwired connections. of doing these. They're all capable

It's only the utility's

resistance that's keeping this from happening.

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In addition, with 42 seconds to go, there are problems with the power supplies for these meters. They are generating their

electricity, which is coming into the houses on wires. The power supplies for these

meters need to be changed to provide better filtration to remove this electromagnetic interference as it's called in the trade. MS. DE VINE: MR. GUST: Time. Thank

So that's my piece.

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA:

All right.

Thank

Hyla Fetler, followed by George

STATEMENT OF HYLA FETLER MS. FELTER: I request that there be no

charge for people who choose not to have this stupid smart meters. The electric and gas

company have been able in the past to make -UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: MS. FELTER: Louder.

Have been able in the past I

to make large profits using meter readers. know it costs a lot to test and install this new system, but the burden of paying for it should not be on people who did not want it and do not believe they can benefit from it.

I believe this system is bad for my

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health and the health of my neighbors.

I

know many people think there is no problem, but think how long it took for many people who realize there was a health problem with exposure to asbestos and cigarette smoke. Many people do not think pesticides, X rays, and even nuclear radiation much of a problem except in extremely high doses. that group. I believe it was a mistake to allow this system to be activated at all with the present state of our knowledge of its possible effects. I do not have any wireless I am not in

things, and I don't have a cell phone. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Thank you.

Mr. Miller, followed by Diane Hawkins. STATEMENT OF GEORGE MILLER MR. MILLER: Honor. Good afternoon, your My name is

Thanks for hearing us.

George Miller.

I'm a retired management

consultant from Oxnard and a proud opt-out customer of SCE. Do most of you know that the cost of natural gas has plunged 80 percent in recent years. No. Has your bill gone down 80 percent?

In that vein, let's talk about smart I also represent the Tea

meters as well.

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Party Action Alliance primarily in Ventura County consisting of 1600-plus members. We

object not only to the increase in opt-out fees, but the opt out fees themselves. And

even the existence of smart meters, which are a questionable benefit. I realize there are some benefits but there are some risks that more than offset the benefits in the area of costs privacy and RF radiation hazards. get into the latter one. I will not

I will focus mainly

on the privacy and the cost issues today. The potential abuse of the system far outweighs the benefits, mainly in surveillance and controlled technology. Smart meters are capable of monitoring your usage 24/7 in near real time and also in the future even down to the specific appliance being used with the ability to shut off the entire service for the house or for individual devices when that technology is fully implemented. that. I object to

I think a lot of people in this room

do and would if they knew about it. As for the fees they are highly unreasonable. $10 a month fee would be $500

just for my block every month for everyone to opt out. That is a ridiculous absurd amount

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of money.

There's no justification possible

for $500 for my block every month, which comes to -- excuse me $60,000 a year. That's

a pretty good return on investment for the company. I also object to the entire infrastructure of smart meters. An enormous

cost was expended in the meters themselves, the installation cost, the huge infrastructure required to monitor the computer activity for the entire network, and the ongoing maintenance for that. Balanced

against the questionable value, I submit from our research that this thing was not done on a cost basis at all, but rather it was done on a controlled basis. The so-called sustainability movement -- dare I say it, Agenda 21 -politically correct people don't use that term, folks is really what's at fault. My

meter doesn't cost you a damn cent than it did before you put the smart meters in. So I

want to know why I'm being assessed $75 plus $10 a month. If anything, the people that Of course you If

don't have it should pay more.

folks are saying this is saving money.

it's saving money, when the hell is our bill going down. Thank you.

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ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA:

Thank you.

Diane Hawkins followed by Joan Reneham. STATEMENT OF DIANE HAWKINS MS. HAWKINS: Thank you, your Honor, My name is Diane

for hearing us today. Hawkins.

I'm a residential home owner in

Ventura County, and I also represent the Ventura County Libertarian Party today. We all understand we have limited choices with regard to how our utilities are delivered to us. Most homeowners have to

accept how gas and electricity is delivered through the utility company, and very few have the luxury of going off the power grid. That makes utility companies a monopoly. That's a given. We all understand that, but I think that's all the more reason that there should be an obligation for the utilities and the CPUC to allow some freedom of choice where people without penalty for exercising that freedom. Offering opt out of smart meters

with a consequence of that choice being a fee or a tax or a penalty, call it what you will, is to offer a false choice. It's much like

if I were asked whether I wanted my right ear cut off or my left ear. Neither choice

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really serves me. Opt-out fees are coercive. People

have valid reasons for not wanting a smart meter, whether their concern is about RF emissions or privacy issues, we ought to have a right to keep our meters, without negative consequences to our wallets. Utility

companies project major cost savings when smart meters and smart grids are in full operation. Wouldn't it be appropriate, then,

for a percentage of those savings to cover the cost associated with those properties that do not utilize smart meters? That seems

feasible and fair and responsible, and I would ask the CPUC to give serious consideration to eliminating opt out fees entirely. Thank you. Okay. Joan Reneham,

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA:

followed by Sasha Letterman. STATEMENT OF JOAN RENAHAM MS. RENAHAM: Thank you, your Honor, Is that

for the opportunity to speak. better? UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: MS. RENAHAM:

Yes.

I'm going to read a

letter that I wrote to Southern California Edison. "Dear sir or madam. This week were

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we great letter surprised to find there is a new digital meter on our house where our perfectly functional analog meter used to be. This was done with no notice whatsoever either before or following installation." "We find this most objectionable because of health concerns, we ask that you remove this meter and replace it with our old analog meter or one like it within 10 days. Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter. Yours sincerely, Joan Reneham and

John Reneham," with a copy to the CPUC. Since that time, a couple of things have happened. We have two houses, one is a We've

rental in San Luis Obispo County.

requested opt-out from both PG&E and SCE. The response we got from PG&E was courteous and prompt, and it's quite unlike the response we got from Southern California Edison, whose first response on the phone when we first called was to say, "You don't have any say in this. rights. You don't have any

We can do whatever we want with the

meter that's on your property." And we still have not had a really meaningful response from Edison. this letter was May 2nd, 2011. still waiting. The date of So we're

It's over a year-and-a-half

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now.

We're still waiting, and we still have And since we have gotten

the smart meter.

the smart meter, we've had certain problems, such as our brand new washing machine that was -- was maybe about a year-and-a-half old, got a burned out computer panel. replace the whole washing machine. We had to And the

cost to do in a and install it and the prior money we spent trying to repair it was about $2,000. You can imagine we were very

disappointed and angry that we had given away our old, 40-year-old Maytag washing machine that worked perfectly. So we now have a new

washing purchase -- another new washing machine, and it's showing signs of the same computer problems. It is still running, but

I think it's only a matter of time. Our car radio settings, which we had 12 of, were mysteriously obliterated quite recently. This has never happened in my 5060 Our TV reception is being Our computer and our Two

years of driving. interfered with.

printer don't function properly anymore.

of our electrical receptacles, which became smart receptacles when we remodelled our house, got very hot to the touch and had to be replaced when sparks began coming out of them.

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MS. DE VINE: MS. RENAHAM:

Time. One of these smart But

receptacles stopped working entirely.

more alarming than just the monetary effect is the fact that I have more headaches I. Have more heart palpitations and now I have tachycardia where as I had none beforehand. MS. DE VINE: MS. RENAHAM: MS. DE VINE: MS. RENAHAM: Times up, ma'am. Pardon me? Times up. I ask you to please come

and take it away and don't charge the $98 initial fee that I see is newly being touted in your -- in the Edison bills. very much. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Thank you. Thank you

Sasha Letterman, followed by Zavier Carbaga. STATEMENT OF SASHA LETTERMAN MS. LETTERMAN: Your Honor, thank you

so much for coming to Southern California with the hearings. I wish had you come

before this whole thing had started, but better late than never. Ventura County voted four to one for no cost opt out of smart meters. Carpenteria

voted four to one for a no cost opt out of smart meters. Ojai City Council voted four

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one to ban the installation of smart meters. That -- that's what's going on in this territory. Smart meters are not mandatory for electric or gas. Thanks to your decision for

the opt out and also under the energy policy act of 2005, it only mandates utilities to offer smart meters to customers who want them and to only install them at customers' request. Corix has been installing them like

bandits in the night, even when people have opted out, invading private property and violating civil rights. This woman was in The Corix man

the shower and she comes out. was in their house.

I've seen them This is

strong-arming old people in my town. not correct. in America.

This is not what should go on

Now, to charge people who want these things is one matter. But to attempt to bill

people for not buying a smart meter is criminal extortion. Have you ever been

charged for not buying something, for what you didn't buy? I never heard of that in my

life, and I've been on the planet more than half a century. That is totally absurd and

outrageous and violates our fundamental rights of law. The CPUC exists to protect

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the public.

I demand the CPUC stop -- I

demand the CPUC stop this extortion racket immediately and refund any of these illegal charges to opt out to not buy a smart meter. The World Health Organization classified EMFs as a Class 2B carcinogen, like lead and DDT in May 2001. The radiation

from smart meters is 40 times higher than from a wireless router, and you can't turn them off. They are always on. Why has the Until

CPUC allowed Edison to install them?

these not so smart meters are proved to be safe, I request the CPUC ban their installation and operation for electricity and gas. The entire state of Michigan has banned smart meters. Vermont has a no fee The parliament of

opt out for smart meters.

the UK say smart meters only benefit the utilities. Let's wake up and ban these

hazardous meters before it's too late to protect our children and our pets and ourselves. kill people. U.S. military tests show EMFs can Studies show that electric They do not

rates triple with smart meters. save energy. continuously. zone. They emit high EMFs

So high they're off the red

We measured them in my neighborhood.

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Edison is required to prove their save under FCC regulations, and they have not done so because smart meters are not smart and not safe. They're not reliable, and

they're a danger to public health. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: MS. DE VINE: MS. LETTERMAN: Thank you.

Times up. Collection stations

they install every 500 houses are as bad as having a cell phone tower on your house. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Thank you.

Zavier Carbaga, followed by Caroline

STATEMENT OF ZAVIER CARBAGA MR.CARBAGA: HI. Thank you for letting

me speak, letting all of us speak. With each passing day more and more people in this country and around the world are realizing the dangers of smart meters, and more and more scientists and scientific studies, those not funded by the utilities or by industry, are seeing the obvious truth, that human beings especially children cannot live healthfully amidst an environment with electromagnetic and RF and microwave radiation from cell phones, wifi, and now smart meters. I believe the utilities are

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privately well-aware of this problem, and now it's about them trying to save face and especially save profits. Specifically, it is

unfair to burden utility consumers with increased opt-out costs. end? But where will it

How much will they raise the next time? The smart

Sure, the utilities need money.

meter system I believe is backfiring on them, and I think they know it. Believe the true numbers of people who have opted out of the smart meter program have been grossly understated to trivialize the dissent. The protests will not go away

because increasing numbers of people such as myself who suffer heart palpitations, headaches, and ringing ears in the presence of high radiation fields must continue to do all we can to protect ourselves and our families. For this reason, concerned communities must have the right to opt out of the grid. Mark these words. The smart grid

will ultimately fail because we are not backing down. But only after mounting

protests and suites and after billions of dollars -- most of it they're try to pass on to consumers -- have been wasted. We are

calling upon the PUC to look beyond the

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utilities, the size of these, you know, enormous corporations and their corporate interests and their wealth and their banks of lawyers who -- who are -- since they're on staff they can simply say, "Hey, let's ask for more money." MS. DE VINE: MR.CARBAGA: 1 minute. And -- and the health of

the people of California is what you -- this is Commission charged to protect. So we need

a hero for truth to stand up for us against the utilities. Studies showing that there

are know green benefits to smart meters. That's just a PR tactic. We, the informed

citizens of California, are asking the CPUC to be that hero and to stand up for the public interest rather than those of the utilities. Thank you. Thank you.

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA:

Caroline Aslanian followed by Bob Holz. STATEMENT OF CAROLINE ASLANIAN MS. ASLANIAN: Hi. Thank you for

letting us speak, and I hope our voices are going to be heard. I don't want to repeat I just want to

what everybody else has said.

speak for where I'm coming from, maybe perhaps speak on behalf of other people who

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may not want to speak. I'm a parent of three children. live in Oak Park, and group of eight of us from the neighborhood have decided to come all the way out here to have our voices heard. We feel like our voices are not being I

heard communicating with Edison and utility companies and CPUC. I've written letters

many, many times asking for simple questions to be answered, and they're dancing around the questions. I have a very simple question, and I know you can't answer. But I hope it Who does

resonates and it gets echoed back. CPUC represent?

Who do they stand for?

Because it surely does not seem like they're representing us, they're standing for our rights. It really looks from our side that

they're representing the utility companies. And I just wish that there was some organization -- our voices -- we're pretty loud here. And I hope there's an

organization that can hear us and stand on behalf of us. That's it. Thank you.

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA:

Bob Holz followed by Stacey Hall. STATEMENT OF BOB HOLZ MR. HOLZ: Well, I really don't have

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much new to say in regard to the -- except the fact that I'm surprised there hasn't been a class action suit started already. because that's the way we're headed. Actually, I'm not a homeowner. I rent an And --

apartment, and I -- but really, if I was a homeowner, you wouldn't see any operating of those units near me because in self-defense, I would smash every single fucking one of them. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Thank you.

Stacey Hall followed by Leroy Moore. STATEMENT OF STACEY HALL MS. HALL: us. Hi. Thank you for having

I live in Thousands Oaks, and I'm an Unfortunately, my mom is

opt-out customer.

75, just went in for a heard surgery due to her tachycardia ever since she had the smart meter installed on her home. It's unconscionable to charge customer fees to avoid something that is harmful, and it's doubly unconscionable to charge the exorbitant fees in both of the applications. These amounts are punitive in

an effort to force customer to comply with this ill-advised technology. no additional fees to opt out. There should be We are

already paying for smart meters through

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increased ratepayer fees and as taxpayers through billions of dollars in government subsidies. Thank you. Thank you.

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA:

Leroy Moore followed by Susan Stewart. STATEMENT OF LEROY MOORE MR. MOORE: Thank you, your Honor. Louder.

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: MR. MOORE:

Thank you, your Honor and I want to just add some

esteemed customers.

facets on to what has already been talked about. I am a MD. I have a license here I'm very

from the State of California.

concerned about complementary and alternative medicines since my ex-wife died of breast cancer a couple decades ago. So I've been

going to different meetings like ACAM and American Academy of Environmental Medicine. And the last conference that I went to was the American Academy of Environmental Medicine in Saint Petersburg, Florida in October. And it had to do with the

environmental effect on the brain and nervous system. Now, I went on the internet today,

and I copied off two documents from the American Academy of Environmental Medicine. One document is approved July 12th, 2012, by

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executive committee of American Academy of Environmental medicine submitted by Amy L. Dean, DO, and William M. Jay, MD. MS. DE VINE: MR. MOORE: One minute. One minute left? Okay.

Now, briefly, the smart meters emit nonionizing radiation. Other forms of

nonionizing radiation are wifi and cell phone. Now, there is -- when you have

nonionizing radiation, it bears a heat form. Theoretically, watch out there's harm. However, we don't see this with this thing. So however there is two forms of physics. One is the Newtonian physics, and now we have the new quantum physics. MS. DE VINE: Times up, sir. Mr. Moore, you're If you

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA:

going to have to wrap it up, sir.

would like, you can sum it up and give me a copy of what you would like to share. MR. MOORE: the summary. I'll write down and give

The American Environmental

Medicine asks for immediate caution on smart meters and installation due too potential harmful RF exposure. Accommodations for

health consideration regarding EMF and RF exposure, including exposure to wireless smart meter technology, independent studies

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to further understanding the health effect of EMF and RF exposure. Recognition that the

vector's hypersensitivity is a growing problem worldwide. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Mr. Moore we're

going to have to ask you to wrap it up. MR. MOORE: sentences. Understanding that the control of the electrical and environmental bombardment for the protection of society, consideration and independent research regarding the quantum effect of EMF and RF on human health, use of safer technology, including smart meters -- for smart meters such as hardwiring, fiber optics, or other non-harmful methods of data transmitting. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Susan Stewart. Thank you. And after Ms. Okay. I just have three

Stewart, we're going to take a short break. STATEMENT OF SUSAN STEWART MS. STEWART: My name is Susan Stewart.

I live in Westlake Village, California. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: MS. STEWART: Can't hear you. I live in

Susan Stewart.

Westlake Village, California.

If approved by

the CPUC, these two applications -- it would amount to approximately $200 additional and

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$48 per month, which is to me highway robbery. There's a large body of scientific

literature showing biological impacts of nonthermal radiation, such as that from smart meters, including DNA breaks which are precursors to cancer, changes to the blood brain barrier, and other troubling effects. Other concerns with this technology as been mentioned, cost, privacy, sabotage, et cetera. All of these risks could have

been avoided by doing hardwired fiber optic network, which was -- I understand the original application was for a hardwired technology. The environmental impact report

that was submitted with that was approved, and then the technology -- wireless technology was -- it was changed to wireless. And no subsequent environmental impact report was required. That's a big question in my

mind when that happened. I feel it is unconscionable to be charging something to prevent harm to ourselves. We are already paying. Those of

us that opt out, we are paying for this technology. And I feel that the fees, if

there is increased fee, should be spread out across everybody because we're paying for smart meter technology that we don't want and

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feel we're being harmed from. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA:

So --

Thank you very much.

We are going to take a break and then we will resume. We're off the record. (Recess) ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Back on the record.

We're on the record now, and it is Mr. Nava. STATEMENT OF PEDRO NAVA MR. NAVA: Thank you, your Honor and

Mrs. Brown for -- thank you, your Honor and Mrs. Brown for conducting the hearing here in Santa Barbara. And let me express my

gratitude to all of the people in this room for taking the time out of their schedules to ensure that they can petition their government so that they can be heard. It is

the most critical and vital component of what makes this country great. part of it. I'm proud to have been the assembly representative for most of the people in this room as well. Part of what you, the I'm proud to be

Administrative Law Judge, and the CPUC has to do is not, as President Clinton said, arithmetic. the equity. It is not the arithmetic. It is the responsibility to It is

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evaluate how all of the customers as well as the industry are being impacted by what's being proposed. And I hear the opt out being described as a program. The opt out should The opt out is

not be considered a program.

part of the larger activity by the utility. And the reason why that is important is because the opt out should not be treated as an orphan. It is in fact an important

element of the advanced metering program that the CPUC consider when they laid out the rules, and it will make all of the difference in the world as you evaluate the calculations as to who should pay what. It's very clear that the majority -the overwhelming majority in this room don't believe they should have to pay anybody for something they don't want. And it's also

clear to me that we should spent some time in the next 57 seconds talking about Senate Bill 17, which is the legislation that created this advanced metering program. Part of what

was required to be evaluated was whether or not it would improve reliability. think that's been established. Part of what was required was full cybersecurity. That has not been I don't

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established.

Part of what was required was

they be implemented in a manner that does not compromise customer safety. that's been established. I don't think

And we have to have

technology to improve worker safety as well. What we're focused on today is how much it's going to cost people to get rid of a meter they don't want. What we ought to be

considering in addition to that is how the overall advanced metering program has impacted everyday citizens in their lives, and I respectfully ask the Court and the CPUC to please do equity, to please be fair to the consumers. Thank you. Thank you.

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA:

Ms. Corral, followed by Julie Cresswell. STATEMENT OF MARGARITA CORRAL MS. CORRAL: -UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: The red light is out. MS. CORRAL: MS. DE VINE: MS. CORRAL: Corrall. mom. Okay. Perfect. My name is Margarita It's not on. Hi. My name is Margarita

I'm not only a consumer, but I'm a

My biggest concern and my biggest

responsibility is my family.

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I am also an opt-out customer. opted out for the safety of my family.

I My

meter is located in my kitchen, and that is the place where I spend so much of my time and where we eat at the dinner table as a family. I'm not willing to use my family as

a science experiment to find out in the end the negative effects that this may have to health. I realize we are exposed to all kinds of toxins outside of our home, which we had no control over. But our homes should be

the one place where we do have control and choose to do what we feel is necessary to support the health of our bodies and our spirits. The current smart meter program

undermines and threatens not only our health, but our piece of mind as well. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Thank you. Julie

Thank you.

Cresswell, followed by Bruce McKaig. STATEMENT OF JULIE CRESSWELL MS. CRESSWELL: Cresswell. speak here. Hi. I'm Julie

I thank you for allowing us to Your Honor, everyone that came

here is did so so passionately and so informed about this issue. I'm really

concerned that these type of proceedings were not publicized more they were publicized in

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2006 when this program was put into effect. And so as a -- I think if they were publicized, more there would be 10 times the amount of people here saying the same thing, saying the health issues that they're experiencing from these meter installations. Because we all as a human being -- nobody's addressed this. They've addressed the But we as human We resonate

different health issues.

beings resonate to a frequency.

to a hertz, which is usually between 62 and 68 hertz. And these electro magnetic frequencies are impacting us. have health issues. This is why we

If you drink a cup of And.

coffee, it lowers your frequency.

These are things that need to be addressed. And what I actually would like to say is that myself -- as a family, all three of us we're out of work. We're living on a fixed income.

We're having trouble affording our utilities right now because of the economy. because we're not willing to work. trying to find jobs. But if you're going to impose fees for us to have something that we don't want, to opt out, it's going to increase our utility bills three times. And we can't It's not We're

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afford them now. So what's going to happen to all the people that this is impacting, mostly the elderly and the children? These are the two

group that's have no income to afford these things and have barely any decision making in the process of this kind of thing. what I came here to say. listening. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Thank you, ma'am. So that's

Thank you for

Bruce McKaig, followed by Cassandra Auerbach. STATEMENT OF BRUCE MCKAIG MR. MCKAIG: Hello. I'm Bruce McKaig.

Can you all here me? Okay. I don't know about you, but

I'd love to have a business that forced people to buy my product. And also if they

didn't buy my product, I could charge them for not doing so. That's one issue.

The other issue that hasn't been brought up that I think should be a concern of all of ours is the privacy issue. The

smart meters as you know transmit your usage of electricity through the air. way, somebody can intercept that. And in that And

somebody knows whether you're home or not. And I don't like that.

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Right now if you look on the internet, I was surprised to find out that you could look at -- look at not only somebody's backyard, what they're doing, if they're there sunbathing or not, but you can also go to their front door. thing is a big issue nowadays. The privacy One of the

most sophisticated aircraft carriers in the world has a -- a room of computers this big, but they don't -- they rely on a person to actually move -- the -- the aircraft by hand and via one person's technology, not a computer. So anyway, I wanted to bring that up to people so that if you aren't home, somebody knows you're there. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Thank you.

Cassandra Auerbach, followed by Delfina Mott. STATEMENT OF CASSANDRA AUERBACH MS. AUERBACH: Well, thank you for Hopefully we haven't

coming to listen to us.

started being too repetitive. I'm coming -- I'm a smart meter opt-out person, and I just found out that the cost for opting out of the gas meter is actually going to cost more than my bill every month, more than my usage for all but

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three months a year.

I use only about 14 or And the fee

$15 or less of gas every month. would be more than my usage. unreasonable to say the least.

This is

I happen to have lyme disease, which is a hidden epidemic all over the country and also in Ventura County and Santa Barbara County. Every single park in Ventura County

have a little sign at the beginning saying, "Ticks in this park are known to carry lyme disease." imitator. Lyme disease is called the great It's closest to syphilis. It is

transmitted by ticks and other biting insects, and it may be unknown to you that almost all known institutions were emptied pretty close when they found penicillin kills syphilis because it attacks the brain. These bacteria have been found by Dr. Dittrich Klinghart, who is the most successful physician to treat lyme disease, to reproduce in the presence of these electromagnetic radiation fields. His

patients are required to sleep in a -- in a net that protects them from radiation, to turn off the -- all of the circuit breakers to their bedroom while they're sleeping, paint the outside of their house with electromagnetic radiation repelling paint,

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and various other things to protect them from dying a horrible, lingering death, a brain obliteration from these bacteria. Please, it's already costing me -- I can't work full time because I -- I have to take a nap. I don't know -- I have seizures

from this bacteria that I contracted in -- in a Ventura County park. It is totally not

okay with me that we didn't know about this going on in 2006, and now finally they're starting to become scientific evidence to show that this radiation are harmful. They

do affect things that are toxic to people in very nasty ways. And now we're having to pay

to not have these destroy us is completely unacceptable. Thank you very much. Thank you.

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA:

Delfina Mott, followed by Sue Williamson. STATEMENT OF DELFINA MOTT MS. MOTT: Yes. I'm Delfina Mott.

Thank you for the opportunity to speak today, and thank you for hopefully listening. I

hope that we will gain something from this. I opted out -- or I called PG&E because I have a place north of here with PG&E. I deal with Edison with a place here.

I contacted PG&E who told me that the

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SmartMeter would be installed.

I could not

opt out of the program prior to that, but once the SmartMeter was in that I could opt out, which didn't please me. I didn't have time to get a hold of Edison because I didn't know that they were around in my neighborhood unbeknownst to any of us. But PG&E had told me that they had

notified the customers but other companies that were going to install the device was going to do it without the customer knowledge. And I did find out that that did

happen because Edison put it in when I wasn't there. I'm just going to address a couple of issues rather than the health issues and so forth, because they've been covered very adequately. The opt-out fee should be

abandoned because I don't feel that it's an option. It's a penalty. And that's what is The $10 a month

very disturbing to me.

should also be abandoned. I have an alternative. And I sent

this alternative to the Public Utilities Commission in April of 2012. they answered. In May of 2012

They sent me a letter, didn't

even address the question -- the alternative that I suggested or anything in my letter.

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And so I will tell you what the alternative was. What they could do is they require the customer to notify the electric company in writing with a registered receipt return. MS. DE VINE: MS. MOTT: present meter. One minute.

-- as to the read out of the Not the smart meter, but the You

-- if you opt out, that's what you do. notify them every six months.

Notify the This

electric company every six months. could be on a yearly basis.

But historically, the electric companies did institute this method in the past. It was called estimated rural It doesn't necessarily have to be It could be in

call-ins. rural.

It could be anywhere.

the city of wherever.

This was done in the

1940s and 1950s, and it was very successful. There's no reason it couldn't be done now, and there would be no $10 monthly fee. is just about -MS. DE VINE: MS. MOTT: you. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Sue Williamson, Times up. Thank That

-- all I had to say.

followed by Patti Pagaling. STATEMENT OF SUE WILLIAMSON

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MS. WILLIAMSON:

Hi.

I'm Sue

Williamson from Ojai, who voted to ban the meters completely. town. I just would like to know where is the CPUC? Why aren't they sitting here This -- this to me is just We don't want them in our

listening to us?

-- I was coming here expecting to actually speak and talk to people who made the decision to put this in. Just speaking now

with the electric company, they said, you know, they were directed by the CPUC to do this. This was not the electric company's The CPUC has all the

decision actually.

power here to change this. What's clear to me from all my communications with employees from the PUC is that -- that they -- they really -- they're not interested in the least about public opinion, and they're not interested in our public health safety. They don't care to

listen about the research that has been proven, how dangerous and deadly the effects of wireless communication systems are on the human brain and ultimately on the body and the massive increase in cancer since the introduction of wireless technology really doesn't seem to concern them in the least.

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They're refusing to even hear these arguments. Just as a note, I -- I just spent two -- two -- three weeks in Europe in Spain and France where the wireless was terrible I have to say. Came back here -- and I don't I opted out. Wireless technology

even have a smart meter. Still, my neighbors do. is every where.

I immediately have not been

able to sleep since then for more than four hours. in the ear. I got headaches. I got ringing

And I thought I was impervious It just goes You don't

to this until I got out of it. to show how it sneaks up on you. even really notice.

I just buried a friend of mine who was 47 years old who spent his life day in and day out in front of a computer. of cancer -- of brain cancer. MS. DE VINE: One minute. The amount of breast Everyday I hear of He died

MS. WILLIAMSON: cancer has increased.

another young person coming down with some deadly cancer. Breast cancer -- it's a big The whole

business in the United States.

atmosphere of the United States has become permeated with electromagnetic frequencies. They've been shown to disrupt the glands'

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ability to produce melatonin, which is the body's main defense against cancer. should all be taking melatonin. It doesn't really concern the PUC. That's what concerns me. They're willing to So we

force this dangerous technology and make us pay for it and pay even if we refuse it. didn't have any bill because I have solar power. Now I have to pay $75 and $10 a I

month, and I can't even go off the grid because if I put in the batteries to back up my solar system, they're going to say you still have to be on the grid. The whole

thing is a such a horrible monopoly. MS. DE VINE: Times up. It's going to take

MS. WILLIAMSON: lawsuits.

I'm going to say the to the PUC if

you're listening that your karma is going to bite you in the butt, and the devil does get its due in the end. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Thank you.

Patty Pagaling, followed by Joyce Hobson. STATEMENT OF PATTY PAGALING MS. PAGALING: Thank you, your Honor.

And I believe you're a representative for -you said for? MS. BROWN: President Peevey.

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MS. PAGALING: MS. BROWN:

President Peevey.

Of?

The California Public He's one of the five

Utilities Commission. Commissioners. MS. PAGALING:

Okay.

I just wanted to

say on behalf of us and everyone that we can actually work together. We can create a

health world for the sake of us, our children, for all beings on the planet. With

that as our purpose if we look forward for what we intend for this meeting, it's not just to list all the illnesses that we could report to you. Isn't it to work on creating a world that we actually could enjoy and not worry about going home and having these EMFs going through our walls even if we choose not to have the smart meters? So I just really

implore us to look at each other as human beings and not as the bad guys and the good guys, the big corporation versus the little people. But how can we work together to

create this healthy world that we all want? It's 2012, and in 2012 we have great minds and technologies that we could put to use. We don't have to use the technology I can -- I can tell you

that's hurting us.

that when I opted out and my neighbors didn't

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because at first they thought they wouldn't -- they were told by someone that it was very likely that our smart meters wouldn't even work in the canyon where I live. Well, they

do work, and they have three-watt smart meters on the houses. pretty high. And I think that's I can

And I -- I'm sensitive.

feel all the time the energy going through my house, and I have a hard time sleeping deeply and soundly like I used to before. MS. DE VINE: MS. PAGALING: One minute. So anyway, I just really

implore you as a representative of the CPUC and your Honor to to work together to create a healthy world for us all. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Thank you.

Thank you.

Joyce Hobson, followed by Gary Vandeman. STATEMENT OF JOYCE HOBSON MS. HOBSON: Honor. Good afternoon, your

We would like to thank you for taking

the time and the effort for being here today. It's greatly appreciated. you as well. I of course am one who chose to opt out for personal reasons, as everyone else did in this room. choice. It's called the freedom of We paid $75 And the rest of

And we paid for that.

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up front and 10 a month.

Now, if we can't

see that these fees are reversed -- I'm not a very trusting person. capped. Okay? I want to see them

Because I know coming down

the pike we have the gas company, et cetera, which I'll go into later. But one of my concerns is that those who chose to opt out with the stickers, et cetera, have experienced coming home and finding a smart meter. daughter. It happened to my

As everyone knows, the company is When

only as good as the money on the top.

hiring, I'm sure they have handbooks -- it's usually the norm -- of dos and don'ts. Corix should know the rules. And

Whether or not

they're paid by the meter, I really don't care. They're actions have been deplorable,

and it certainly is not the American way. Our next option, I'm sure -- opt out rather is going to be the gas company, and those fees are absolutely ridiculous. cheap. Gas is

The concern they should be worried

about is the infrastructure with new valves on shut offs for leaks as not to experience San Bruno or as in last Wednesday night's news, West Virginia. In the past I've read

that, "Well, to put these valve in is too expensive." That doesn't say much for human

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life, does it? It's very distressing. These are

just my thoughts and as far as I'm concerned, common sense. And I do thank you. Thank you.

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA:

Gary Vandeman, followed by Ann Crosby. STATEMENT OF GARY VANDEMAN MR. VANDEMAN: Gary Vandeman. Good afternoon. I'm

I'm an electronics engineer,

amateur radio operator, life long geek, technology advocate. I'm also an opt-out

advocate for several reasons. The first -- I started reading about the smart grid about 15, 20 years ago in the journals. Sounded like a really great idea. You could

Talked about it being voluntary. sign up.

You could adjust your power usage

with -- in cooperation with the utility companies. There's no cooperation here. The smart meters allow the utility company computers to turn off an individual customer's power, either individually or in groups, intentionally or accidentally. accident could be from software errors. hear of software error? rogue employee, hacker. The action of a Right now I'm paying The Ever

$10 a month for protection and paying to have

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my electric power assured by not having it arbitrarily shut off. And I think this is The meters

something that's very important.

should not be fielded until the customers are protected against accidental shut off. Historically, they have unplugged the meters if you don't pay the bill. unplugged the meter. power can be shut off. They

Any time, anywhere your And I would like to

see that capability taken away from the utility companies. Thank you. Thank you.

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA:

Ann Crosby, followed by Jean Cheesman. STATEMENT OF ANN CROSBY MS. CROSBY: Your Honor, thank you for I know you

coming today and for hearing us. came a long distance.

And you can -- I hope

you can tell how much we appreciate this. It's -- a lot of it is heartfelt, and it -we are grateful for this opportunity. It is

rare that it happens, so thank you for coming all the way. My name is Ann Crosby. I live in

the Eastern Goleta Valley in my home for 32 years. I'm an opt-out customer. I invested

in a pretty good sized solar panel system so that I am producing power on my bill. It has

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always been negative.

And so right now the

only thing I'm paying is the $10 opt-out fee. As to fees since this is so much what this is is about. We understand the $75

one-time fee and $10 monthly fee are just interim fees that they could be substantially increased. So that is of great concern. And

I have heard that Edison, for example, is asking that the final fee be double the interim fee. So instead of seventy five it

would be $150 one-time fee and then a $20 monthly fee. us. So that is of great concern to

And then of course there's the Gas

Company which has a higher fee structure to start with. So I've been doing arithmetic as people talk, and I -- my calculations are that in the first year the one-time and then the twelve-month fees -- the whole thing for the first year would probably be close to $800. So that is also a great concern. It seems that these two huge companies have created a fee structure that completely invalidates the opt-out option by becoming too expensive for nearly everyone. This is, as you know, for something that we do not want. We wonder how would these

utility companies, who are supposed to serve

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the public, can charge us fees for something that they are not providing, that they are not installing, and something that we do not want. Since -- and we think there should be

not fees required since they are not providing any additional services to us or products. I also wanted to briefly address in Phase 2 the community opt-out option, which I'd like to wholeheartedly endorse and recomment that our community, Santa Barbara County, be given the community opt-out option. That would certainly cover all the

apartments and people who cannot decide on their own. And you've heard about that for

them how important that is to them. And then the the last cost is that this year Edison informed one-third of their employees that they would be laid off by the end of the year because smart meter would be doing their jobs. So in summary, we don't We don't want to be But since there's no

want the smart meters. charged opt-out fees.

change to our current situation, there's just no rationale since we're not receiving additional product or service from either of these two companies. Thank you. Thank you.

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA:

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Jean Cheesman, followed by Leigh

STATEMENT OF JEAN CHEESMAN MS. CHEESMAN: Afternoon. I didn't

know I was going to say anything, but I'd like to make a few comments. I have So

chemical sensitivity and EMF sensitivity. I knew I wanted to opt out. MCS lists, one from Canada.

I'm also on five So I've been

reading about smart meters for many months. I have opted out as far as I know. However, I now have a digital meter which was put in without my knowledge or permission and I'm having health problems from that. When I

called to ask if I could get an analog meter back, I was told no way. know why not. So I would like to

So that's one problem.

As for the fees, even though I'm on the low income fee, that's still handicap. Also, I was reading one of the MCS lists this morning which had information about smart meters, and someone had commented on it. She

said under the ADA, it's illegal to charge a disabled person for an accommodation; is that right? I'd like to know. So that's about all I have to say. But I'm glad to see all this discussion. Thank you very much.

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ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA:

Thank you.

Let's go off the record for a minute while we fix the microphone. (Off the record) ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Back on the record.

STATEMENT OF LEIGH HYNDMAN MS. HYNDMAN: for coming here. in Ojai. We are a hardworking family, and at our own cost installed solar for power rather through Edison because it has to be. We've Thank you, your Honor, I live

I'm Leigh Hyndman.

researched the smart meter issue from the start, and we make responsible decisions based on education. From the start, the

management of smart meters has been poorly instituted. Numerous smart meters were

installed in our town without owners consent, and removal process is unbelievable. As homeowners we opted out and yet four months ago a smart meter was installed on our rental, which is on our residence property. The tenant did not sign for it.

As it was being installed, I happened to come down and asked the Edison employee to remove it. He refused to do it even after talking It is still not removed..

to a supervisor. I'm livid.

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That is not the issue today.

Edison

obviously did not do adequate preliminary research regarding this device has been forced on us. There's ample evidence showing

the meters that the meters are a potential risk the public regarding health and privacy issues. The customers of Edison should not

be required to pay for the company's errors in judgment or management. Edison is

responsible for the costs related to this bad decision. We have no option to change electric We're held hostage. The proposed

increase in fees is not an adjustment for normal costs for running a business. The

increased fees are due to poor management of this issue. Edison is responsible for those It's morally

decisions, not the public. wrong to decide other wise.

I understand parts of our own state and federal government encouraged the development and use of smart meters. It is

part of a grander design to gain more control over individual freedoms to reduce liberty and to exploit property owners. unscrupulous. This is

Our laws and our lawmakers are

supposed to represent the people and they are supposed to protect individuals from being

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plundered by others or other entities. I'm patriotic. I follow our laws. I'm a good citizen.

I respect our elected

officials, unless they are in our disrespect. I have a strong moral compass. And when law

and morality contradict each other, I suffer from losing my moral sense or losing respect for the law. The proposed increase in rates

by Edison to cover Edison's mismanagement is an active plunder. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Alice Edwards. is not here. Thank you. Okay. Alice Edwards And that

Conger James, please.

will be followed by Patty Close. STATEMENT OF JAMES CONGER MR. CONGER: James Conger, Carpenteria.

And it turns out these smart meters are not so smart. Early Sunday, the 25th of

November, an inebriated driver smashed into an Edison power poll in Redondo Beach. About

2000 of their customers with these meters were treated to a power surge and then an outage. Most of these customers suffered

multiple failures of devices, including TVs, DVDs, Comcast DVRs, dishwashers, washers and driers. The Edison legal department has found Edison not at fault, but I'm certain

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they're smart meters recorded this incident faultlessly. How could they possibly design

a new meter at good expense that doesn't protect the households? What advantage do

these meters provide for the consumer other than constitutional questionable 24-hour surveillance? Most of us can and are encouraged to pay our bills online. If Edison actually

wanted to reduce their meter reading expense, I would be glad to read my meter for them for a $10 reduction of my bill. Instead they

have arranged with this not very smart program. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Thank you.

Patti Close, followed by Bill Warnekros. STATEMENT OF Patty CLOSE MS. CLOSE: Hi. My name is Patti, and

I was alerted quite awhile ago to the smart meter controversy. I've been to meetings,

done research, read mailings, and I have yet to hear one good reason why smart meters are good for customers. When I was informed about the outrageous fees to not have something, I was shocked. people. This is a very hard time for many I know many middle class,

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well-educated families who are barely making ends meet. How are low income families to These charges are an

absorb these costs? extreme hardship.

It seems totally wrong to me to have to pay the outrageous, unreasonable, unaffordable fees to not have something which is dangerous to our health and a violation of privacy. The danger to children alone should

be reason enough for us to be able to opt out without penalty. I have two grandchildren,

and the most dangerous age for children is under 10 years old and between maybe 3 and 6 years is the -- because they're skulls are still soft. And I don't believe that I

should be charged to protect my grandchildren. This feels like an assault, and in my lifetime, I've never remembered such a difficult time in our economy and in our country. How can it be even considered to

put this hardship on the public to not benefit anyone except the utility companies, who are supposed to be serving us not assaulting us? ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Bill Warnekros? Okay. Cindy Sage? Thank you. Okay. Clare Moser?

And that will be followed

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-- she'll be followed by William Smolenske. STATEMENT OF CINDY SAGE MS. SAGE: being here. here. A lot of things I would have said to you have been covered very eloquently here, but I do believe we're here to look for a solution out of a mess that consumers did not create. And we would really like to look for I believe that the opt out for Your Honor, thank you for

Carol brown, thank you for being

solutions.

consumers who opt out -- these people as individuals should not be bearing the weight or the burden -- the financial burden, especially if it isn't capped. Secondly, I don't think Southern California Gas Company should be given the right through the Commission to install wireless meters. We don't want these meters.

Consumers have already paid the first time around for their analogs that work perfectly well. Consumers then had to pay -- all of us

paid for the smart meters, even if we didn't want them. And now we're being asked to --

and our family has done this in the two places we live -- to pay to get rid of them and either keep our analog or go to an interim digital RF meter, which you've heard

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and which I can tell you is still a source of health problems. This is a failed corporate policy. Wireless was never mandated. The

shareholders may be the only people that the electric utilities will listen to. And it is

the shareholders if anyone who should bear the full cost of opt outs. One thing that

hasn't been covered today -- I want to talk to you about from our personal experience. In the last couple of years the electricity that we pay for is -- is becoming filthy. is filthy with RF interference. unfiltered. It is And It

It is a polluted product.

if any water company tried to sell a product that filthy, we wouldn't buy it. drink it. We wouldn't

But here I have no choice. Southern California Edison in

addition to how -- really, they should absorb these opt-out costs. But if they're going to

get these high of profits, they really ought to use part of the money, the billions they collect, to go back and clean up the power that is now so filthy. It is on our plumbing. the ground and the air. and you regulate it. Finally, I brought a copy of our It is on our wiring. It is coming through It is their product,

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property bill.

And I wanted to tell you

about our neighborhood but I won't have time. What I wanted to do is look through the impairment areas through our electric meter, which is now on solar, and our gas meters. We pay a lot of the fees you heard about, but in addition, it takes about a quarter of our square footage in a small house we bought in 1979. And the loss is probably $100,000.

And the loss every year in taxes that we pay for property taxes -- and I see I'm out of time -- is $450 per year, every year. shielding we did already is $960. The

And we may

have additional Southern California gas fees. So it hits people really hard. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Thank you. William

Thank you.

Smolenske, followed by Judy Tanaka. STATEMENT OF WILLIAM SMOLENSKE MR. SMOLENSKE: Hello. I'm like a I have a solar

couple of these people here. voltaic system. electricity.

So I don't use Edison's

I put back into their system.

So -- and I also have an agreement slash contract that I pay my bill once a year, plus or minus, whatever it is. I don't need Whatever

somebody to come and check a meter. it says once a year, I pay it.

So I --

that's why I'm not interested in this whole

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thing. I get -- I don't know if you guys get this. from Corix. doing. I get one or two of these a day Yeah, this is what they're I

This is where the money is going.

get a phone call -- approximately a two-minute phone call from Edison everyday. I have do not -- I'm on the do not call list, but we know what that does. And I just don't

-- I'm not sure -- I -- I don't know -- I'm not sure the definition of -- between reminder and harassment is on having this done. Five people have come to my house to change the meter. Luckily, I'm at home. They pound on the So

they come to the door.

door, and I come to them and I explain to them I've opted out. It's on the meter. And

they try to talk me into changing it. you know, they get a commission.

And,

I'm trying I He

to protect your jobs so you have a job. have another friend who has a system.

opted out and of course they changed his meter as well. I want to know -- I don't know if there's any lawyers here if they come on my property and I shoot them for trespassing, am I liable there? Because I've told them I

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don't want them on my property. check that?

Could you

Also the last thing I would like to know, the -- the -- Edison considers me a power company because I produce my own electricity, and I feed it back into the grid in the middle of the day at high rates. Since I'm a power company, can I charge them whatever rate I want to if they want to check the meter because they're checking my power company? Anyway, that's all I've got to say. Thank you. Judy Tanaka? After

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Judy Tanaka?

Ms. Tanaka, it will be Karen Cooper. STATEMENT OF JUDY TANAKA MS. TANAKA: Thank you for your time.

I come from a little different perspective. I hear a lot of the common remarks that everybody -- everyone is concerned with, and I appreciate the time to put the comments in the right place rather than complain to neighbors. I'm an independent health insurance broker, and I'm very, very alarmed about decisions in my industry about having to pay for not buying something. I'm beginning to Is

wonder is this the further extension? this the next step are you looking at

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something that's down the road? I'm extremely alarmed because there was a letter that was written to Mr. Peevey of the Public Utilities Commission, and it's from the American Academy of Environmental Medicine. And the letter, which was written

on January 19th, says: "Dear Commissioners, The Board of the American Academy of Environmental Medicine opposes the installation of wireless smart meters in homes and schools based on a scientific assessment of the current medical literature. request." "Chronic exposure to wireless radio frequency radiation is a preventable environmental hazard that is sufficiently well-documented." I won't go through all the specifics and the hertz and all of that. But at the References available on

end it says, "Given the widespread, chronic, and essentially inescapable EMF, RF exposure of everyone living near a smart meter, the Board of the American Academy of Environmental Medicine finds it unacceptable from a public health standpoint to implement this technology until the serious medical concerns are resolved. We consider a

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moratorium on installation of wireless smart meters to be an issue of highest importance." I also was concerned because I had to make a decision. get one? Do I get one? Don't I We're very

So I did some research.

fortunate in Santa Barbara to have an environmental consultant company called The Sage. You can go online, Sage Consultants.

You can see their report, which is a little technical, but you get the idea that it's a bad thing. Also on the side, there are letters from experts all over the world. And. I'm

not going to argue with these people who know better than I do. There are reports they're

from Israel -- from Israel is the medical epidemiologist who says, "It is fair to say that we are no longer talking about mere precaution of uncertain risks but about prevention of highly probable and known risks. Based on the accumulating evidence,

it is now fairly certain that there will be widespread adverse public health impacts." And it goes on and on. And there's

reports from Canada, from Australia, from the British Isles, from every where. And there's

no question in my mind that this is a danger. So I have --

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MS. DE VINE: MS. TANAKA: smart meter.

Times up. -- opted out from the

I also wrote a letter to the

city, and what I want to know is is the next step -- are we going to have to have our own smart grid to monitor our usage and forced to buy smart refrigerators? MS. DE VINE: MS. TANAKA: Times up. Which GE -- so this whole

thing can be a very failed experiment -ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Ms. Tanaka, times

MS. TANAKA:

-- which I don't want to

participate in, a failed experiment. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Thank you. Ms. Okay. Is

Cooper, followed by Shirley Force. Ms. Cooper here, or Ms. Force? MS. FORCE: I am. Okay.

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA:

Please come

STATEMENT OF SHIRLEY FORCE MS. FORCE: being here. I'm local. Boy, am I learning a lot more. beyond furious. I am Your Honor, thank you for I am Shirley Force.

Thank you.

How dare the utility company

be allowed to extort money from us to not have something installed that we don't want?

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It is extortion.

That's the word for it.

SCE is a monopoly, so I can't just go to another company. I was given a choice,

accept a smart meter or pay $75 opt-out fee, then pay $10 a month forever. To add insult

to injury, the bastards couldn't even wait a month to start charging the $10. My first

month was $85 above my electric cost. They are unsafe. unhealthy. They are

No big brother spying wanted.

We've become a socialist country slip-sliding into communism. God help us all. Wanda Harrison?

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA:

Wanda Harrison, followed by Dennis Laack. Okay. right. Ms. Harrison? Okay. Mr. Laack? All

And then Terry McCullouh. STATEMENT OF DENNIS LAACK MR. LAACK: Thank you, your Honor, for My name is Dennis Laack of

listening to us.

Camarillo, and I'm still undecided about the smart meter. I wrote a letter to Mr.

Furakawa, who sent a letter to me advising me about the opt-out option, and that was the beginning of August. I still have not

received a response despite the fact that I've called about five or six times. I

talked to Rene Porter and Mr. Molina, and they all promised to get back to me. Now I'm

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not even getting a return call when I leave a message. The question I asked or concerns I have were voiced here. They're unwilling to

put them in writing, and unless I get a response in writing, I am going to opt out. If I opt out, I was willing to pay the $70 and the $10 a month. here. But then I see Phase 2

Phase 2 talks about all these programs

that they're going to institute to manage the opt-out program. Actually, these programs are a continuation of what's being done now for the standard meters and what was done in the past. They're just adding on now costs to

try to recoup their costs of the smart meter program. They have assumptions in their

program in their plans for Phase 2, assumptions which appear ridiculous. For

instance, they estimate that 56 percent of the opt-out people will need new meters, new analog meters. assumption. That seems like an awful bad They're basing the costs

And.

on those assumptions. So I think I recommend the PUC have independent management company come and audit their plans, not only for the assumptions and the costs, but to look at if there's any

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better simpler way of collecting the data like self-reporting, rather than hiring outside company to come and do the meter reading. Thank you. Thank you. Bonnie Okay.

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA:

Raisen, followed by Terry McCullouh.

Either Bonnie Raisen or Terry McCullouh. Okay. And June Johnson will be after. STATEMENT OF TERRY MC CULLOUH MR. MC CULLOUH: Thank you, your Honor.

My name is Teri McCullouh from Redondo Beach. I'm an opt-out customer also. couple -- does that sound okay? I'm here to accomplish a few things. Basically I wanted to look at the SCE cost -they're cost proposal of 11/28/2011 and share with you my experience with the opt out with Southern California Edison. First of all, the -- going through the SCE opt out proposal, which was the justification for -- presumably the justification for the opt-out fee. I've I just had a

looked at the three largest basically budgets or impacts for opt out. operations. One was the network

It's a -- it's an RF mesh

network, which is inherently re-configurable. They talk to each other. It's in the weeds

of network stuff, but there's absolutely no

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reason for that being an opt-out problem. It's automatically -- it's in their nature. The second one is something like $36 million I think it was the two-year, '12 and '13 costs that they were using for the network. And they had another $20 million

for office and maintenance to deal with the legacy system with the old analog meters. And if you think about it, your Honor, the billing record for this new -- for the analog meter compared to the billing record for a new smart meter is a very small insignificant subset. There's no reason why the old analog

meters couldn't be incorporated into this new system, this new back-end office system. They want $20 million. It just doesn't make

sense something is not computing there. And the third the last one was -and I think the only legitimate expense -was associated with reading the meters themselves. They made a big comment in the

text of the report about accuracies of reading the meters, self-reads but they never really mentioned that in the actual budget -budgetary numbers. And. I -- I'm not going

to have time to share with you, but I did offer a quad chart that I put forth outside. Hopefully, you'll make it part of the record.

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Anyway, my personal experience.

I

had a smart meter installed, and when I opted out, basically they put in an analog. And

they basically started estimating bills for the next three months without any real reads. And while I'm paying the -- I paid the 85, 75 plus 10. MS. DE VINE: Time. I understand -- I've I have historical I have several

MR. MC CULLOUH: actually calculated up.

data on these properties. properties. And.

They didn't estimate

anywhere close to the historical averages for the properties. And I basically wanted to

bring that to your attention that it's not -it's not -- the opt-out fee is really not fair. It's really not needed. It should be

held under the general rate cases now. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Okay. Thank you.

June Johnson, followed by Curt Okay. Okay. Is Ms. Johnson here? Mr. Curt Jahnke, J-a-h-n-k-e.

And after Mr. Jahnke will be Teresa Seiler. STATEMENT OF CURT JAHNKE MR. JAHNKE: Your Honor, my name is I've lived

Curt Jahnke from Santa Barbara. here for 52 years.

I came as a kid.

A couple things I thought I would

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get half of the afternoon to tell you, but so many have done so well. And I would just Your Is that

like to ask a couple of questions. Honor, are you appointed or elected? a fair question or no? ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: MR. JAHNKE:

I'm civil service.

Pardon me? Civil service.

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: MR. JAHNKE:

So who appoints you? Nobody.

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: MR. JAHNKE:

I was -- I heard one lady

talk about in a rather animated fashion why isn't the Public Utilities Commission here because it seems to me we have bellyached and bitched I should say about Edison and Corix and so on and so forth. And they are

probably -- but we as the public look to you for protection. sorely missing. And to me that is sorely, And I hate to be critical

but that's the way I feel. One of the things that's most alarming -- you know, we've all heard the adage about the fox guarding the chicken house, and that's the way I feel about part of the Public Utility Commission. When I

read that Michael R. Peevey was a Chief Executive Officer of not only California Edison but California -- or Southern

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California Edison International, and he's on the Public Utilities Commission. expecting him to be my advocate? MS. DE VINE: MR. JAHNKE: One minute. That's a big stretch. Not And. I'm

only is he the only one from SCE, there is another member. But having said that, I

liked what the gentleman -- he spoke very articulately, and he was dressed in a blue suit and a tie. And he talked about a -Not a law, but a --

what do you call it?

that was before the Commission that had listed several items that needed to be decided before smart meters would be initiated. And in every case, as I recall, Why do we today have

that had not been done. smart meters hounding us? MS. DE VINE: MR. JAHNKE:

Times up. And we're fighting about

the fees when it was never, ever approved in the first place according to the rules and regulations set forth. It seems incredible.

And I would beg and pray that the PUC will step to the plate and make things right. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Kathleen Leer? B-o-e-h-m? STATEMENT OF LAWRENCE BOEHM Thank you. Lawrence Boehm,

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MR. BOEHM: issue of RF.

I'm here to address the

And I have a neighbor that put

in a real strong wifi system, which blasted 600 feet around the area where I live, and within a year I came down with cancer. since then I had my doctor say I am wifi sensitive. wifi. I get migraine headaches from And

Nothing is being done. I have this article from the cancer

center.

Good Health.

It says here, "Tips And it has

for improving your sleep."

different ones, sleep in separate bedrooms if your bed partner is disruptive, so whatever. But this one here says, "Turn off your wifi and cell phones which emit electromagnetic fields, EMFs, which may negatively effect the function of the gland can which helps the body secrete growth hormones and melatonin." I've heard more and more people who have smart meters put on their homes. can't sleep at night. What. They

Kind of country

is this that comes around, jams this on your house without your permission. I'm a history

teacher, and I've taught over forty-some years. And this is starting to smack like Thank you very much. Thank you. And he will be

1938 Germany.

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Robert Place?

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followed by Brian Rosen. STATEMENT OF ROBERT PLACE MR. PLACE: know it's late. Thank you, your Honor. I

I'll just be very brief and

talk about my personal experience. I've done the opt-out program on the smart meter program because I was made aware of it by my older sister in San Francisco, who I think Cindy knows, who is one of the three people leading the protests against smart meters up in that area. Anyways, even though I opted out and don't have a smart meter on my house, I had a medical condition that arose about four or five years ago called atrial fibulation of the heart, and it's an electrical malfunction. And I had a very complex,

7-hour surgery about a little over three years ago that pretty much fixed the problem except for maybe two or three incidents maybe a year. But what I've noticed -- and correct me if I'm wrong. I think it was in June and

July they started putting in smart meters in Santa Barbara on a widespread scale, and I didn't even make the connection until August that starting at that time I started having daily incidents again of atrial fibulation,

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which continued.

So I think there's a pretty

good idea, especially from hearing everyone else talk today, that there's a pretty direct correlation. Plus, my arthritis in my thumbs from doing years of massage. Also, I noticed -- I

wasn't even aware that smart meters affected arthritis negatively until I talked to my older sister three or four weeks ago in San Francisco has gotten at least two times worse in terms of pain and inflammation. As many people here, I ask for a no fee opt out on our program, and also on medical smart meter freeze out for people that have strong sensitivity to EMFs. you very much. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Rosen. STATEMENT OF BRIAN ROSEN MR. ROSEN: We seem to be on attack Thank you. Brian Thank

from all different fronts these, days whether it be the National Defense Authorization Act where they can hold -- where they did away with habeas corpus and can hold us citizens indefinitely without trial, whether it be smart meters, or a host of other problems by government that is out of touch with the constitution and the people of this nation.

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We have a Public Utilities Commission that's basically owned by the power companies. our government. We've lost confidence in The constitution gives

everybody the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Being subjects to all

kinds of possibly unhealthy frequencies is clearly unconstitutional. The constitution is constantly ignored by our government every step of the way, and we are owned by big corporate America. Big corporations rule this country.

And I'm not convinced the Public Utilities Commission -- you may do something if you get enough -- an outpouring of support -- of the huge support. But if -- if your hearts were

in the right place, we wouldn't even have to be here. How many people on the Public Utilities Commission represent the regular people? How many people on the Public

Utilities Commission represent groups like The Utility Reform Network? I think that

it's a wiser -- if we had a better government, there would be more consensus here. We wouldn't just try to throw -- force We would get

things down everybody's throat.

a consensus whether it was dangerous or not.

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We don't just force things down people's throat. It's not the respectful way to go. We should have done these hearings -- many hearings. done surveys. We should have

We are not getting an accurate

count of people who don't want smart meters because most people can't afford the opt out fees. So everything is skewed. If there

were no opt-out fees, what would the percentage be then? MS. DE VINE: MR. ROSEN: One minute. One minute left. So we --

I -- I -- we might be able to not have you charge an opt-out fee if we have incredible outpouring of support. But it's not going to

be easy for us given who is on the Commission. It's time to stop this program. It's time to stop our Public Utilities Commission, which is own the by the power companies. be united. do it. It's time for each one of us to I'm not sure how we're going to

We have to boycott, refuse to pay our

bills, refuse to pay our taxes, refuse to support this government when it gets out of line, which is all right under the constitution of the United States. It's so disrespectful this whole

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thing.

Why isn't this a survey given to

everybody before you started this program? And the idea of putting smart meters on people's homes who have already opted out, the robber barons are back again. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Thank you. Okay. Why

Veronica Haverbeck.

don't we have Veronica Haverbeck come up, please? Gould. STATEMENT OF VERONICA HAVERBECK MS. HAVERBECK: Good evening. I came And she'll be followed by Michelle

here from Thousand Oaks hoping that my voice would count. And though I echo the

sentiment, my basic concern is the health concern with the so-called smart meters and the invasion of privacy. And thirdly, the

unaffordable extortion from a super powerful company. Although I am a CARE customer, meaning low income, their rates -- their opt-out rate I can't afford. And the saddest

thing is sitting here, driving here -- and what the question is -- in reading what the purpose of this meeting is has nothing to do with the concern of our health, whether we want them or not. It's a done deal. The

only purpose of this meeting is the -- the --

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the proposed rate increase for opt-out customers and to see who is going to pay how much. Should -- you know, should the opt-out

customers pay more or, you know, all that. But it has nothing to do with what has been said here in terms of the concern for our health and our privacy and the unaffordability of this robbers. wasting time? So are we And I

What are we doing here?

just hope that what has been said here will count. Thank you. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Thank you.

STATEMENT OF MICHELLE GOULD MS. GOULD: Ms. Yip-Kikugawa. Thank you, I've written you numerous

times on the subject, so I'm glad to speak with you personally. I support all the Obviously I was I think

things that I could hear.

watching my child in the other room.

the last speaker obviously hits home to me too. These concerns are not about fees. We have major concerns about even having this. I protested numerous times against

Corix to try to keep them off my property. I'm an apartment renter. We had 12 smart

meters on our wall, five inches away from our bed. And we could not rearrange our room.

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We slept in the front room. five months for a new home. one. I'm commuting to work.

We looked for We finally found

These are not safe for anybody. did our opt out.

We

There were two other people The other ones

who opt out of the 12. couldn't afford it.

The people who you see

that have smart meters, it's not because they're for the smart meter. they can't afford not to be. should be a consideration. The other thing. our privacy concerns. a preschool teacher. It's unsafe. It's It's because So I think that

The little guys -- I'm And I look around at I went looking There's In my

all the apartment complexes. for five months for a home.

apartment complexes in banks of them.

research, you can be a collection meter, so you could be collecting 500 meters other input, unbeknownst to you. There's also the

other antenna turns on sometime that is 2.4 gigahertz more that nobody knows about. The Corix people that were putting it in had no facts. In fact, they kept

saying I was wrong, that you don't know what you're talking about. So they're getting

paid well to put them in, but we're removing the people that had jobs to read the meters.

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I'm really concerned about the children out there, and if I can speak for them -- there is children that don't know that are playing around banks of them. Banks. They have no idea, and they're So please, can you

sitting there playing.

please think about the future generations? This should not even be here. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Thank you.

Thank you.

Mr. Hewitt, followed by Barbara

STATEMENT OF CHARLES HEWITT MR. HEWITT: Thank you for having this We are counting on

hearing in Santa Barbara.

each of you to represent us. I have a few questions. A few

studies have said smart meters are safe, but I'm not aware of one incredible study that says no one will be affected. Are you?

Furthermore or in addition, cell phone companies pay for transmitters located on private property. Shouldn't Edison pay --

pay me to locate a transmitting smart meter on my private property? Lastly, the proposed fees for reading meters monthly as part of Phase 2 cost about as much as hauling the trash from my place once a week. How can Edison be

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charging that much possibly?

There should be

a no cost opt out for people with health concerns. Thank you. Thank you.

ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA:

Barbara Scollin, and then Teri Lynn Langsev. STATEMENT OF BARBARA SCOLLIN MS. SCOLLIN: Hello, your Honor. I

just wanted to thank you for coming.

And

I've never been at a public hearing like this before and it's a nerve-wracking. I don't

know how you can stand listening to all of this being so polite and patient to all of us, but we appreciate that. I wasn't going to talk today, but I feel there's a couple of things that haven't been said. My husband and I opted out. We

have the little stickers on our meter, but Corix came a week and a half ago and was going to take our analog meter away anyway. The cost of the fees -- yeah, I can stretch somehow and pay those, ,but that's not the only cost. The cost has been

listening to a panel of all different people from all spectrums liberal, conservative, whatever. And you can seize by the passion

and the words and all the people that are coming here today -- we feel very strongly.

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We are customers.

We don't think you should Our analog

fix something that's broken.

meters seem to be working just fine. At this point the cost of all of the time we're reading about this, to become educated about all of this EMFs -- I'm not a doctor or a scientist or engineer. Taking

the time to go through all of this, taking time out of work to write letters and all the rest, there's more cost involved here. And I'm reminded of David versus Goliath with the Erin Brockovich story against PG&E. It seems insurmountable right

now, but I hope both of you will do all in your power to do the right thing. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Thank you. Teri

Thank you.

Lynn Langsev, L-a-n-g-s-e-v? Ross Stein? Bertelsen. STATEMENT OF ROSS STEIN MR. STEIN: Hi. Thank you for I just start And followed by Nancy

facilitating this this evening. off by saying I am her neighbor.

Unfortunately I don't have the -- we have 10 smart meters above my bedroom wall. haven't left in a week. four times a night. I

I wake up three or

I am dizzy about 6:30,

7:00 o'clock at night whenever people come

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home and start using their electricity. fact is we shouldn't even be here because

The

these meters shouldn't have gone in period. SCE is acting in a criminal manner as much as I would put some chemical waste behind your bedroom wall. And the CPUC is I want the Not the

facilitating their criminal act. meters removed now. next day. Now. Not tomorrow.

It's infringing on my right

for health, and I can guarantee there will be a legal reckoning. And remember that I said this today. I'd like to let this gentleman know the reason that Magna Carta was signed because the sheer volume of people that showed up. It's absolutely outrageous I pay so much as I do to live close to a clean area of the ocean to breathe clean air, and now I have to deal with I can't sleep. muscle spasms. I'm dizzy. I'm having

And they're the meters.

That's all I have to say. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Nancy Bertelsen,

followed by George Davidson. STATEMENT OF NANCY BERTELSEN MS. BERTELSEN: So I'm Nancy Bertelsen. I pay

So far the gas company has been fair.

only for the gas that I use, unlike other utility systems that have a block system and

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other fees.

We should not be charged for

something we're not using. Also, the proposed opt-out gas meter fees are outrageous, especially for those of us with lower incomes. This is a democracy. I choose to keep

We have freedom of choice.

my home environment as healthy as possible and free of electromagnetic frequency. sure that the vast majority of people educated on the subject also choose to opt out of gas smart meters and fees. very much. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Mr. Davidson? STATEMENT OF GEORGE DAVIDSON MR. DAVIDSON: here. Thank you for being Thank you. Thank you I'm

My name is George Davidson, and I'm

pleased to see how many of the other speakers are producing Edison's electricity. How many

of us are having solar systems or wind systems? Has anybody ever gotten a check?

We have the privilege of producing the electricity for Edison at great expense of our own, and yet we get to pay $75 to not have a meter and then $10 a month. Does anybody keep track of how much money Edison pays to us to produce electricity? Maybe they're smart meters

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aren't so smart.

When they came to my

property to look at the meter, I told them not to change it. He didn't because my meter At $10 per

was spinning so fast backwards.

household, how many meters can a man read in a day? Can a woman come along and read these I doubt the

meters say 20 or 30 an hour?

meter reader is getting $300 an hour, but yet the public is being charged that outrageous rate of $10 a meter. You saw today how many of us are paying $75 a month. Multiply that times the

thousands of dollars Edison is getting. That's one hell of a Christmas bonus. producing electricity. We're

We don't get anything

for it, and yet we're being advocates for clean energy. That's it. I'm just one more

voice that is against this meter system, and I cringe to see how the rates are going to continuing to go up. here. ALJ YIP-KIKUGAWA: Thank you very much. Thank you for being

That is all of the names that I have on my list. Is there anyone else who had not

signed up to comment who would like to make a comment at this point? I want to thank all of you for coming today and for providing us your input

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and what your thoughts are on the smart meters and the opt-out program as well as the fees. out. I do want to assure you that the transcripts are provided to the Commissioners. Their advisors do read them. We really do appreciate that you came

I used to be a Commissioner's advisor, and I read transcripts from public participation hearings. And I took them very much to heart

because that is when I get to hear from ratepayers. coming. There are no further matters in this proceeding at this point. and off the record. We are adjourned Again, thank you very much for

Thank you.

(Whereupon, at the hour of 5:37 p.m., this matter having been continued to Monday, December 17, 2012, at 6:00 p.m. in Los Angeles, California, the Commission then adjourned.) * * * * *

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BEFORE THE PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA

Application of Pacific Gas and Electric Company for Approval of Modifications to its SmartMeter™ Program and Increased Revenue Requirements to Recover the Costs of the Modifications. (U39M) And Related Matters.

) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) )

Application 11-03-014; A.11-03-015; A.11-07-020

CERTIFICATION OF TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDING I, Wendy M. Pun, Certified Shorthand Reporter No. 12891, in and for the State of California do hereby certify that the pages of this transcript prepared by me comprise a full, true and correct transcript of the testimony and proceedings held in the above-captioned matter on December 14, 2012. I further certify that I have no interest in the events of the matter or the outcome of the proceeding. EXECUTED this 14th day of December, 2012.

_________________________ Wendy M. Pun CSR No. 12891