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Care and Support Meeting at Carlisle Business Centre on Thursday, 10 January, 2013

WELCOME AND INTRODUCTION Carlisle Business Suite was buzzing as more than 130 people gathered to exchange views and discuss the Care and Support Bill. The meeting, co-ordinated by Bradford Alliance on Community Care, had been called to enable people to put concerns and questions to Norman Lamb, MP, Minister of State of Care and Support at the Department of Health. Unfortunately, BACC were informed only 24 hours before the event that he was unable to attend. David Ward MP asked Baroness (Liz) Barker to attend and she was pleased to be given this opportunity. David Ward MP, Liberal Democrat Bradford East talked about key findings from a report prepared from research following the formal consultation last year. In addition, representatives from local organisations that submitted formal responses to the consultation had been invited to make short presentations outlining key issues. Phil Cutler, Bradford Alliance on Community Care welcomed everyone and said the turn out showed people regarded this issue very seriously.


SPEAKERS AND SPEECHES 1 David Ward MP (Liberal Democrat Bradford East) said he was delighted so many people had been able to attend and that the future provision and funding of social care was a key issue. He explained that work on the Care and Support Bill was continuing in Parliament. He summarised key points from a report prepared following last year’s consultation – ‘Reforming Social Care – Voices from Bradford East’ and said he hoped ‘the voices of Bradford residents are heard in the national debate that will shape the future of social care in the UK’. The key points included: future funding and the Dilnot proposals, maintenance of Bradford’s home care eligibility criteria, review and improvement of adaptation services, development of personal budgets, quality standards, combatting isolation amongst older people and housing representation on the Health and Well-Being Board. 2 Keith Nathan, Age UK Bradford said care provision was in crisis! He presented a short report stating the ‘social care system is careering towards breaking point, starved of funds, with investment failing to keep pace with the growing needs of a growing ageing population’. In Bradford, ‘more and more people are discussing concerns about declining standards/pressure on the deliverers of care producing less help, and not as it is needed by the client’. He emphasised that the key issue was ‘the urgent need to know …. how the Government plans to put the Dilnot reforms into action and ensure all older people receive the care and support they need’. 2

3 Paul Smithson, Dementia Shipley, Alzheimer’s explained that, although Bradford had a reasonable record on dementia care and was increasing the capacity of Memory Clinics, there are still a lot of people in Bradford not receiving the support they need as they remain undiagnosed. Interviews, with carers locally, revealed the key issue was ease of access to services and finding out what is available as they were too busy caring! In addition, concerns included: confidentiality issues, early diagnosis, a belief that people with dementia were financially penalised for having an illness, a postcode lottery of care, concern that the Bradford ‘moderate’ level of eligibility would be lost if a national set of criteria were adopted. They also felt the Dilnot recommendations should be implemented, but the limit of £35,000 was too high. 4 Anna Jackson, Carers’ Resource gave a vivid summary on three key concerns raised in their submission last year. Firstly identification and recognition of carers was vital to provision of services for carers. Carers should be listened to – they are expert when caring at home - but often ignored once the person they care for is admitted to hospital or another care setting. They must be differentiated from paid carers. Secondly, the Carer’s Assessment feels like a test – it should be aimed at the carer – a Carer’s Needs Assessment may be a better name. Standardisation across local authorities would be welcomed but may be difficult to implement. Thirdly, the Bill draws a distinction between services for the carer and the person they care for but provides no definition of ‘carer’ services. Anna said more details of the submission from Carers’ Resource, which is a generic organisation and works with all carers, is available. 3

5 Janice Simpson, Adult Services, Bradford Metropolitan District Council welcomed the opportunity to listen to the views of local people and organisations. BDMC had made a submission to the consultation. She commented that the White Paper reflected a good many issues and concerns and highlighted what she believed to be some of the positive aspects. These included: the duty on local authorities to ensure access to preventative services, a focus on outcomes, a reinforcement of the duty to provide social care allied to the integration with health care and creation of the Health and WellBeing Boards, the ‘portability’ of assessments between local authorities – i.e. people would be able to transfer their assessments when they move home, appointment of chief social workers with responsibility for quality standards, national eligibility criteria and market development. She believed, however, that sustainable funding was the key to successful implementation, social care funding had not kept pace with NHS funding and this needed to be addressed. Also, driving-up quality of care was an important role for statutory services. 6 Paul Anderson, Bradford & District Disabled People’s Forum said changes in benefits and cuts in services are affecting people now! He had seen this first hand from his work with the Forum and Contact Peer Support. He believes true choice can be achieved only by involving people. It was vital people were able to say what they needed not be told what was available as this may not be appropriate.


7 Consortium of Ethnic Minorities Mushtaq Hussain

The Consortia of Ethnic Minority Organisations are extremely pleased that this Care and Support Summit has taken very productive steps in listening to the various communities who are concerned about the draft Care and Support Bill. COEMO has been providing a range of services to ensure that the BME communities are represented in everyday life. The social care needs of ethnic minorities, particularly of the elderly community, has been a major area of concern in the district for many years- however very little has been undertaken to fully get to grips of what can be done to understand and address the needs of this specific group. Our latest investigation and report examined the specific social care needs of Muslim elders living in the District. Some of the key findings were – That some Muslim elders are living in isolated and vulnerable situations Muslim elders have an expectation that their children will look after them, however in practice this is not always happening Muslim elders are not using the care-homes because of the fact that care-homes are not fully adapted to meet their needs, such as prayer facilities, halal meat and fair treatment. We would like these issues to be fully examined and evaluated to ensure that the social needs of such communities remains at the forefront of any decisions. We do understand that this is an extremely challenging area but the growing elderly population, particularly in hard-to-reach and socially excluded communities, needs a clear focus to ensure that they are able to live in full confidence that they will grow older gracefully and with their dignity 5

QUESTION AND ANSWER SESSION Panel: Baroness (Liz) Barker and Guest Speakers

A host of questions was posed from people and whilst every effort was made to record these accurately, please contact BACC if you would like to clarify your question or response. Q1: The report is wishy-washy it does not adequately reflect the change in demographics within Bradford. Also, combatting loneliness for older people needs to be pushed up the agenda. Answer: David Ward MP The report tabled is the Executive Summary – the full report makes points about changes in the demography of Bradford. A copy of the full report is available at/from David’s constituency office 460 Killinghall Road, Undercliffe Bradford BD2 4SL Comment: Baroness Barker She has an affinity with the area, as her mother was from Saltaire. She believes it is impressive that groups have worked to come together today – achieving a consensus about what is fair and right is very important. Q2: Norman Lamb MP said recently that carers were putting parents into care homes instead of facing up to their responsibilities – how can he justify such an argument? Answer: Baroness Barker The Minister is not here to answer but it may be he meant that communities need to be resilient – she would go back and pose this question to him. Q3: It is unclear if a decision has been made about the proposed cap on care home fees, following yesterday’s mid-term statement from the Prime Minister. Has it happened? Answer: David Ward MP No. It is hoped a consensus between parties can be reached. It is unlikely the government will agree to as low a level as that included in the Dilnot proposals, ie £35,000. 6

Q4: What about support for young carers? Answer: Anna Jackson, Carers’ Resource The current White Paper makes little reference to young carers, nor parent carers, and this needs addressing to ensure adequate recognition and support. Answer: David Ward MP I would agree, it is important that young carers are considered in their own right. Q5: In what way is charging people for social care fair and right? What is the difference to health care? Answer: Keith Nathan Age UK Bradford Austerity measures are a concern. Debt after the World War II was twice what it is now relative to the size of the economy, yet we were able to establish the NHS. Unless there is a fundamental will to fund care there is a danger things will get worse. There is a need to establish ‘A National Care Service’ alongside the NHS. Comment: Combatting the fear of older people about ‘what will happen to them’ is vital. I want care and support when my needs are ‘moderate’. I beg politicians to ‘look after people’, this country has history of doing so and is not poor! Answer: Baroness Barker Technology and innovative and cultural changes may provide some of the answers to combatting fear and provide new ways of delivering services.. Q6: Austerity can be solved. We cannot let the bankers continue as they are. Why can’t we increase the money supply to allow investments? Answer: David Ward MP The Vickers Report is addressing some of the excesses of the banks. Q7: What about care and funding for working age people? We are being penalised for being careful and for being ill. What about funding for younger people? Answer: Janice Simpson The personalisation agenda may provide some sort of answer. 7

Answer: David Ward MP The level of the cap on contributions to long term care needs to be carefully considered. Q8: Politics is about challenging decisions. The Liberal Democrats are in a powerful position, there are choices but this government has made a cynical decision to reduce spending. Why are you supporting this? Answer: David Ward MP Yes there are choices and lots of things are being looked at, such as whether people living abroad should continue to receive winter fuel payments. Comment: The numbers are insignificant and why shouldn’t they get it if they are entitled and have contributed? Comment: The problem is the profits made by private health and care firms who pay low wages. Money is going into private care. We are all equal. Banks are running this country. Comment: I am in receipt of care and am appalled at the level of wages some paid carers receive, they do not get a living wage nor regular hours and pay. I would like a regular carer not to be at the back of the queue. Also, I suffer as I used to work and have some savings. Q9: Regarding the disabled parking blue badge scheme – why do people who misuse the parking spaces not receive points on their driving licence so as to deter this behaviour? Could you bring this issue to the attention of Parliament? Q10: We are a small group of people who continued to meet following attendance at a 12 week chronic pain course. We have tried to raise a small amount of funds so we can continue to meet but have been told we cannot hold such things as raffles as we do not have a license. Why can’t we get a small amount of funding to help? Answer: Sue Crowe Bradford Talking Media and Disabled People’s Forum. I have some information which may help. Please contact me after the meeting. Q11: How can you help create better public perception of people on benefits. The % of fraud is very low but people believe it to be 8

much higher. Disabled People’s organisations are reporting an increase in hate crime. What are you doing about it? Q12: I’m involved in a group called Positive Minds which is about improving mental health for older people. Concerned that funding will be reduced for preventative services which will lead to increased costs to deal with crisis later on. Answer: Janice Simpson Prevention and early intervention are really important. Austerity is causing a massive challenge as the council has less money to spend. Adult Services are seeking to consult with people about the eligibility threshold to access services, whatever happens there will still be a need for preventative services. The quality of care particularly around dignity & respect are fundamental issues. Q13: People in receipt of housing benefit are being moved out of their houses if they are deemed as having too many bedrooms. This is false economy if they are getting support from relatives and friends nearby but will need paid help if they move. What can be done? Answer: Keith Nathan Age UK The so-called ‘bedroom tax’ excludes older people but not many disabled people..

Thanks and Close David Ward MP and Phil Cutler BACC David thanked everyone for their contribution and emphasised that this work was continuing and today’s event was not the end of the discussions. Phil said the time allotted had gone and Baroness Barker and a number of others had to leave the meeting. He thanked everyone again for attending and said a report of the day would be available on the BACC website: Details of the White Paper and the Draft Bill including an easy read version of the white paper can be downloaded from: