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Lee Moore Because many here asked for some details on this current infighting our community has been hammered with I thought I would share this. Also in order to get this peace project up and running I am in dire need of supporting partners. If you have a group and wish to exchange flame wars for civil discourse I ask that you contact me and join in this effort. Without community backing I fear this will fail. Insight on the infighting. http://anr.apartmentj.com/?p=1029
Insight on the Infighting, An A-News Q&A With Justin Vacula anr.apartmentj.com A-News is continuing its commitment to do all that we can to help bring some of the current infighting within our community to an end. While we still plan to hold our proposed peace talks and are currently working behind the scenes to draft a cease fire agreement, we thought it might be wise to [.....
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Ophelia Benson Fabulous job. Who's next? "Commander Tuvok"? 10 hours ago · Unlike · 2
Lee Moore Well I did ask you. 10 hours ago · Unlike · 2
M O RE
Ophelia Benson And now we see why I said no. 10 hours ago · Like Lee Moore No actually I dont see what you said no (and actually you said you would let me know) 10 hours ago · Like Monette Richards Lee, if you can't find people who have been the victims of harassment to take you up on your idea, perhaps you need to sit back and consider that there just might be something wrong with your proposal. 10 hours ago · Like Lee Moore I have found many who have been the victims of harassment who have stepped up to be a part of this. There is just one group who refuses. 10 hours ago · Like Julie Grunewald Williams while our "heroes" are fighting online, many of us continue to fight in the flesh-world trying to combat b.s. from creationists and the right-wing, anti-science crowd... y'all need to resolve this and move on, please 10 hours ago · Unlike · Lee Moore Amen Julie 10 hours ago · Like Monette Richards Julie, I don't think you really believe that posting online precludes fighting in the flesh-world or you wouldn't be in this group. 10 hours ago · Like Monette Richards Lee, being called out for saying sexist things does not constitute being harassed. 10 hours ago · Like · 2 Ophelia Benson We are perfectly willing to resolve this. I've told Lee that, many times. Cease fire, by all means! Please! But it's the other "side" that refuses to cease fire - they want "talks" and "discussion 3
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of grievances" instead. 10 hours ago · Like · 2 Ophelia Benson Their "grienvances" are things like how old and ugly and sexually repulsive I am. What, exactly, am I supposed to "discuss"? 10 hours ago · Like Julie Grunewald Williams The other "side" wants an audience. Don't give it to them, whether online or in person. The slymepit will die a slow but sure death. 10 hours ago · Like Chat (113) Lee Moore Monette, do you really think thats all there is? 10 hours ago · Like Lee Moore Ophelia, how is anyone supposed to take that last comment seriously, you and I both know those are not their grievances, just kiddie cheap shots by some extreme idiots. 10 hours ago · Like Ophelia Benson No, the slymepit will not die. That's magical thinking. There's no magic mechanism that will cause it to die. There are lots of people who enjoy that kind of shit-flinging. 10 hours ago · Like Monette Richards For the most part, yes, Lee. I do think that is what Vacula's biggest complaint is. He even says it in the Q&A you posted. 10 hours ago · Like Ophelia Benson Lee I know no such thing. Don't tell me what I know. They yammer about it endlessly, they make long shouty videos about it. That's why I have zero interest in "discussing grievances" with them! 10 hours ago · Like Lee Moore Justin hasnt said sexist things to my knowledge yet he is labeled as a sexist/racist/misogynist. That is a problem. But that is just one of many problems. Just the one he focuses on. Ophelia, if you think I would propose a talk where any of that garbage was brought up as a legitimate grievance from their side you must hold me in very low esteem. 10 hours ago · Like Ophelia Benson Lee, if you think I want to "discuss grievances" with people who talk about me and others that way as long as they don't talk that way *in the discussion* you must think I'm an idiot. 10 hours ago · Like Lee Moore Considering I do not think you are an idiot and have not invited anyone to these talks who has said anything about you like that to my knowledge I would have to ask for a different reason for your lack of participation. 10 hours ago · Like Ophelia Benson "To your knowledge" - but as I've told you several times, your knowledge is very incomplete. 10 hours ago · Like Lee Moore Ok, update me. Show me where Justin Vacula or Karla Porter have attacked you personally in this manor. 10 hours ago · Like Ophelia Benson That's not what I said. You cited which people you've invited to "these talks" - I have no idea who those people are. 10 hours ago · Like Ophelia Benson I'm done. I don't want to discuss the minutiae of what I think is an ill-conceived project. 10 hours ago · Like Lee Moore You cant hold two people to blame for the attacks of others. They arent one big unified group. Also if you arent interested in backing up your claims how am I supposed to accept them as facts? As I have told you before, if you arent interested in this plan to promote civil discourse I will of course leave you in peace. 10 hours ago · Unlike · 1 Ophelia Benson I didn't say I'm not interested in backing up my claims!! I said you were talking about something else. 10 hours ago · Like Lee Moore No I wasnt. You said you didnt want to sit down and discuss grievances with people who attack you personally in such a vile way. I just pointed out that I wasnt asking you to, I found others to sit down and talk who havent flamed you. 10 hours ago · Like Gretchen Robinson hey, folks, there are ways to resolve conflicts, there are methods and procedures. We can't afford to fall into the traps that the theists fall into. Get into a room and talk it out. 8 hours ago · Like · 1
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Gretchen Robinson the internet and fb are terrible places to thrash things out. Plus we read something and can take it the wrong way, by assuming it means something it doesn't. At that point it's always good to ask 'what do you mean by....."---sometimes I manage to do this myself. Another thing is to take a couple day cooling off period and then come back. Say: "what I meant when I posted this was......" Apologize freely. It takes a 'big' person to apologize. But it's surprisingly freeing. 8 hours ago · Edited · Like · 2 Ophelia Benson How are people who are scattered all over the world supposed to "get into a room"? 8 hours ago · Like · 1 Julie Grunewald Williams Ophelia Benson, Lee Moore... y'all need to exchange phone numbers and talk to each other, sort it out, make it work... Online exchanges don't work. 8 hours ago · Like · 1 Lee Moore We do have virtual ones. I think that is what Gretchen meant. 8 hours ago · Like Gretchen Robinson conference calls. 8 hours ago · Like Julie Grunewald Williams pick up the phone! 8 hours ago · Like Gretchen Robinson Go to Meeting. 8 hours ago · Like Julie Grunewald Williams 8 hours ago · Like · 2
Ophelia Benson How do people who are scattered all over the world go to a meeting? 8 hours ago · Like · 1 Lee Moore Google hangouts are a good start 8 hours ago · Like · 1
Julie Grunewald Williams Lee Moore, call her! 8 hours ago · Like · 1
Gretchen Robinson this kind of thing happens in all groups, eventually. We get frustrated with wanting change to come sooner than it is. Change comes slowly. 8 hours ago · Like Ophelia Benson Not necessarily. Google hangouts aren't magic. Whether they work or not depends on a lot of factors. 8 hours ago · Like Lee Moore best option we have under the circumstances 8 hours ago · Like · 1
Lee Moore or skype calls 8 hours ago · Like · 1
Lee Moore there are formats that can work 8 hours ago · Like · 1
Ophelia Benson This exact kind of thing doesn't happen in all groups. I've certainly been in groups that didn't include systematic harassment of women. 8 hours ago · Like Ophelia Benson No, it's not the best option we have. 8 hours ago · Like Gretchen Robinson Go to Meeting gives you 30 days free trial. https://www3.gotomeeting.com/m/g2msem3.tmpl? Portal=www.gotomeeting.com&c_name=gg&c_mark=NAPPC&c_kwd=g o_to_meetingExact&c_prod=GTM&gclid=CMKAybfosbUCFYXc4AodQ3QAcw GoToMeeting : Web conferencing, Online Meetings, Net Meeting, Online Training, Web Conference, Prese www3.gotomeeting.com GoToMeeting: Specializing in web conferencing, online meetings, web conferencing... See More 8 hours ago · Like · 1
Ophelia Benson If it were that easy it would have happened by now! 8 hours ago · Like · 1 Lee Moore It can be that easy if folks are willing to try, I will just keep offering to build that bridge. 8 hours ago · Like · 2
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Ophelia Benson I am willing to try. Cease fire. Go right ahead: cease fire. I've said that 95 times. 8 hours ago · Like · 2 Gretchen Robinson Ophelia, maybe the group can contract with each others to hold to certain behavioral norms. That needs to happen when a group forms but can be done now, too. And them move forward. If someone breaks the agreement, they get called on it by the others. Everyone monitors the group. We're all adults here. 8 hours ago · Like · 1 Lee Moore That is what I am proposing we hammer out. 8 hours ago · Like · 1
Gretchen Robinson in religious groups it's call a Covenant. 8 hours ago · Like · 1
Gretchen Robinson This sounds like Elevatorgate all over again. 8 hours ago · Like Lee Moore I have had that same thought since I started offering the peace pipe. 8 hours ago · Like · 1 Lalit Mohan Chawla Which group and infights does this post talk about or is it generic? 8 hours ago · Edited · Like Lee Moore Its general. No actual concrete sides, just folks from random groups, random blogs, and random forums taking part in flaming those who disagree with them. 8 hours ago · Like Lee Moore So I am trying to get as many as possible (4 at a time) to sit down with me and a for mods to hash out a solid cease fire agreement and address these points of contention in a civil manor. The promotion of civil discourse should be our top priority within our movement and this plan aims to further that cause. 8 hours ago · Like Gretchen Robinson Lee, this is a typical for a group. The group is 'storming'--struggling together--the 'Chaos stage of group formation. Any group has to go through this stage to get to what's called True Community (and connection). When a group comes together, they can do a lot of effective work in short order (and may dip back into the chaos stage at other times). I've seen groups go through this dozens of times but it's scary when everyone thinks it will fall apart. 8 hours ago · Like Lalit Mohan Chawla Hope attempts to ceasefire won't mean attempts at silencing calling-out where necessary, because many groups do that, they try not to have any member speak about or against any popular member and try to silence it under the name of 'unity' 8 hours ago · Like Ophelia Benson Gretchen it's not "Elevatorgate" all over again, it's "Elevatorgate" still. With added "women talking about harassment" but still originally "Elevatorgate." 8 hours ago · Like · 1 Lalit Mohan Chawla I am sorry I don't get it, which group? if it is a generic post, how could it fall apart ? 8 hours ago · Like Lee Moore This effort in no way wishes to silence anyone. We just wish to promote civil discourse. 8 hours ago · Like Ophelia Benson Well, Lee? You're the expert. Who are the people you have in mind? 8 hours ago · Like Gretchen Robinson Okay, Ophelia. You are right about this being a continuation of Elevatorgate. Harassment stops all progress until it is addressed and lessons learned and new social contracts are in place. Silencing is out. Anyone who feels silenced should ask the group to help them process it. Women have been routinely and continually silenced throughout history. We are very touchy on this point. 8 hours ago · Edited · Like · 3 Ophelia Benson Exactly. I've been trying to explain that to Lee for 2 weeks! 8 hours ago · Like · 2 Lee Moore Well you are one of them Ophelia. 8 hours ago · Like Gretchen Robinson you two need to be talking in person.... 8 hours ago · Like · 1
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Lee Moore Gretchen, its about a great deal more than just the fact that there has been some harassment on both sides of this. 8 hours ago · Like · 1 Lee Moore We talk sometimes over chat, however we have yet to exchange phone numbers. 8 hours ago · Like · 1 Julie Grunewald Williams **pick up phone, dial number** 8 hours ago · Like · 1
Ophelia Benson No, we don't need to talk on the phone. This isn't personal. (Cue last scene of Casablanca.) 8 hours ago · Like · 1 Gretchen Robinson okay, I leave you too it. Remember: we need one another. 8 hours ago · Like Lee Moore I should add that I have a great deal of respect for Ophelia and her work and do not think that we are against one another. 8 hours ago · Like · 1 Lee Moore For instance both Ophelia and I agree that the harassment needs to stop, we just have different ideas on how to achieve that end. 8 hours ago · Like Julie Grunewald Williams well, it's the wild, wild, west over at the slymepit... why not for starters, tell the lead "spokesperson" for that cesspool-of-thought for a cease-fire... would *they* agree to that? 8 hours ago · Like · 1 Lee Moore they have no spokesmen and even if they did the slymepit is only one part of that "side". 8 hours ago · Like Janice Rael So, Happy Darwin Day, everybody. What's your group doing? 8 hours ago · Like · 1 Lee Moore I have however secured many folks from that camp who are willing to discuss a cease fire and be a part of my proposed talk. I have received zero interest or support from the main players on Ophelias side of this. 8 hours ago · Like Ophelia Benson I don't want to talk. I don't want to "discuss" a cease fire. Just cease fire. There's nothing to discuss; just stop firing. 8 hours ago · Like · 2 Ophelia Benson That's why you don't get support from our side. 8 hours ago · Like Ophelia Benson If somebody sets up camp in your front yard and keeps lobbing bricks through the windows, you don't "discuss" anything, you just say stop. 7 hours ago · Like · 1 Lee Moore In that situation I would hope you would call the police. I dont see people in this conflict destroying property or physically harming anyone. I just see reputations harmed and the convo steered away from those things that brought us all together. I want to see a cease fire but a real one that both sides can agree to 7 hours ago · Like Lee Moore To achieve that we need discussion 7 hours ago · Like Gretchen Robinson I'll say it: STOP. Now you see why equality is so hard and why churches (etc.) end up with top-down, authoritarian leadership. But as humanists we have to find a way to have a cease fire and go from there, without getting one's last licks in. 7 hours ago · Edited · Like · 1 Ophelia Benson Ok, different analogy then. You go to a talk by (say) Daniel Dennett. Someone in the audience keeps shouting insults at Dennett. No property destroyed, no one physically harmed, but a serious talk derailed and shut down. Do you have a "discussion" with the shouter? Do you talk about the shouter's "grievances"? Or do you just tell the shouter to stop. Unilaterally. No discussion, no negotiation, no mediators, no sitting down in a room, no conference call. Just stop. 7 hours ago · Like · 3 Lee Moore I see something different, let me change a few things from you analogy. Someone gives a speech, 1/4th of the audience walks out in the middle of it and has a talk criticizing him for something he may have said. Two or three of those started yelling at him during the conference. Now 1/4th are being blamed for the actions of 2 or 3.
7 hours ago · Like · 1
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Kim Rippere Seems to me that this idea has potential. I also understand why it takes so long to get people to the table to talk and why some "parties" might not be interested without clearly defined goals, outcomes, etc. That isn't yet present in this case. It is difficult to choose to participate in a "discussion" that appears to give voice to an idea that you don't agree with (and is anti-*you*) . . . all for the hope that in the end one or some small group might agree to a cease fire. Also, doing all this publicly isn't helping; IMO. There is a reason, again, why so much of the work is done behind the scenes. I applaud Lee Moore for having an idea and trying something. I am not sure that he had a clear idea of how difficult it would be or the plethora of issues/concerns involved before beginning this journey. Just getting people to the table it tough - more work needs to be done to get both sides to buy-in to this idea and believe that it is worth investing time and energy into. Without this initial buy-in the idea will fail. 6 hours ago · Like · 3 Ophelia Benson Quite so, Kim. I'm not interested in "discussion" of the proposition that I'm a cunt and I deserve to have acid thrown in my face. A lot of us take that view. 6 hours ago · Like · 2 Lee Moore Ophelia I have never asked you. Kim, thank you for your kind words. This very points you make are still being worked out behind the scenes. I will continue to post updates as they become available. 6 hours ago · Like · 1 Lee Moore Asked you to* as in asked you to discuss those points.. 6 hours ago · Like Gretchen Robinson There is a great need for men, in general, to listen, the whole way through. Non-defensively, no interruptions. Not calling what we are doing, venting. Men like my spouse have to listen to al the hurt, suffering, pain, women as individuals have been through. And the general horrors that continue to be done to women and their children, just because they committed the Original Sin of Being Born Female. On the other side this is a tremendous energy for forward momentum. But first the hard work. There are two books I would recommend about how patriachy harms women and men. One is Silencing the Self: Women and Depression by Dana Crowley Jack. and I Don't Want to Talk About It by Terrrence Real. Both men and women silence their real selves. Men by isolating and women by being 'too good' and self-sacrificing. Humanist/Atheist women refuse to do either. And we won't go back and we will no longer accept the crumbs that fall from the table where men hold their discussions, as if we weren't there. 6 hours ago · Edited · Like · 4 Ophelia Benson Yesssss. 6 hours ago · Like Lee Moore Gretchen I would argue that there is a great need for humans to sit down and listen regardless of their sex. After all this conflict has males and females on all of its many sides. 6 hours ago · Like · 1 Ophelia Benson "This conflict" is *all about* telling women to stfu. 6 hours ago · Like Ophelia Benson Pretending it's all just humans and nothing to do with anti-feminism is a complete dead end. 6 hours ago · Like Lee Moore I very much disagree with that. I have spoken to a large number of females who would take great issue with what you just said. Karla Porter, one of the folks who will be representing the other side in the proposed discussion is last I checked female. I do not think she has any interest in being told to STFU and doubt she would support that idea. There are many non feminists in this movement, some hostile to the concept, some indifferent. Either way you cant expect the movement as a whole to accept this ideology without a great deal of criticism. 6 hours ago · Like Ophelia Benson Yes, and let's agree to make common cause with racists, too, and with anti-Semites and homophobes and people who like to torture animals for fun. 6 hours ago · Like · 3 Ophelia Benson Forget it, Lee. I'm not having anything to do with a "peace" move that rules out feminism.
6 hours ago · Like · 3
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Gretchen Robinson Lee, I am a feminist, too. I find feminism a vital part of my humanism/ atheism. Feminism addresses all that has been ignored in and denied to women, the right to be equal. (Note, I am not an essentialist). IMO Feminism and humanism complement one another, at least until that time when we have a post-patriarchal world. Please have these women voice their views. Remember there are women who are like Margaret Thatcher, that is Junior Men, who want to out-male males with their adopted malestream thinking. I don't think that's what you mean so please clarify. Feminism means to think for oneself. To stand over and against group think and to stay in a discussion as long as it is civil and doesn't feature many of the stereotypes and put downs that have for millennia been used against women. Both feminists and humanists want human beings to flourish. And far too many women on this planet are being shot for asking for an education or gang raped and thrown out of busses (India), or drugged and dragged from one rape party to another unconscious (Stubenville, OH), simply for that Original Sin I spoke of earlier. 4 hours ago · Edited · Like · 2 Julie Grunewald Williams good post, Gretchen Robinson. I was a feminist long before I was an atheist. If I have to choose between the two, I'll have to choose feminism. I want my daughter to feel welcome in the A-movement in the future... that is what I'm fighting for and support Ophelia and the others who are doing the same. I just wish we could find some common ground... maybe it does not exist. 4 hours ago · Like · 1 Gretchen Robinson Thank you, Julie. I don't think many men 'get it.' Not in the slightest. Feminist poet Adrienne Rich wrote about "the Dream of the Common Language." Sometimes I think a common language only exists as a dream. Yet, I know men who were feminist before I was even aware of the term (my husband). So I know it's not a gender thing. Some of these 'gentle men' are theists so it's not a//theist thing. It's a human thing. I'd like to suggest the book The Gender Knot as explaining to nonfeminist women and men with open minds what's at stake here -accepting the full humanity and the full gifts of half the human species. Heretofore we've been systematically excluded. Books like that will have to do until you or I or Ophelia Benson write one of our own. I am finishing co-mentoring Class 17 of The Humanist Instutute in April. After that, I plan to undertake some kind of writing project. That's why I offer this suggestion. 4 hours ago · Edited · Like · 3 Lisa Ridge I'm also not interested in participating in discussions with "movement" people who do not identify as feminists. I don't even know what movement we're talking about, if that's the case. 3 hours ago · Like · 1 Lee Moore Well folks, I do not identify as a feminist. However let me make it clear that I believe in total equality between the sexes, equal rights treatment pay, and so on. I do not identify as a feminist because of its history and complexity. From my own understanding there are multiple types of feminists, from those who support the trans movement to those who are against it. Too many waves, too many camps. Seems quite a bit simpler to just stick my head out as an Atheist (to which I have always been) and a secular humanist when it comes to my own ideology. But thats just me, however I am not alone in that thought process. So please do not discriminate against those of us who choose not to call themselves feminists. It usually isnt because we are sexist. 3 hours ago · Like Gretchen Robinson well, for starters, a behavioral covenant between men and women or any two or more people about how we will maintain respectful, civil discourse. I guess you could call me an old line feminist but also a lifelong nontheist, who only was able to own my humanism/atheism at midlife. I don't mean feminist as a movement or as political stance. I also think that no one is educated in how oppressed women have been, white women, black women, etc. women within ALL religions. Recently in Massachusetts we had Elizabeth Warren running for Senate (she won!!) She was attacked using much racial and sexual sterotyping by a macho-mike, pick-up driving Republican yahoo who claimed to be bipartisan. He lost because women saw through his Tea Party rhetoric and knew that he would vote against women's reproductive rights, for one thing.
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He has yet to 'get it' and he's not alone. Every man and woman who voted for Warren was voting out of a feminist conviction, whether they would name it as such. They wanted women to have equal rights to reproductive healthcare. 3 hours ago · Like Julie Grunewald Williams Is "feminist" a toxic word for some men, and women, to identify with? If not identify with then to at least accommodate and not be hostile towards? Webster: feminist = advocating social, political, legal, and economic rights for women equal to those of men. Reminds me of the fear and terror that the word "atheist" instills in non-believers. 3 hours ago · Like · 1
Lee Moore Had I been in your state I would have voted for Warren, not because of her sex but because of her relentlessness and her policies. I was very excited when I heard she had won. I voted for Jill Stein for president, not because of her sex but once again because of her policies. Many of us have the attitude that sex shouldnt be a factor in these things (or much of anything other than choosing a mate based on your own personal sexual preference). 3 hours ago · Like · 1 Gretchen Robinson Yes, Lee, it is complicated. But it's simple too. No one can possibly know everything about any issue--and there are so many. You value and have committed to equality between the genders as well as due diligence toward other equalities. Whether or not you call yourself a feminist or not is up to you. I personally can accept that with one proviso. And that is that you and others don't close down or get overwhelmed at the magnitude of the suffering of women (or any marginalized group). That is why I asked you (plural) if you were able you hang in there and listen to the hurt, and yes, fear, that lies behind some of the posts. That's the one thing we can do for one another, to understand how hard it has been for the other human being across from us or across the country. Give people the benefit of the doubt. 3 hours ago · Like Lee Moore Julie, I wouldnt know if the word itself could be described as toxic to some men. I know I have a few personal experiences with feminists back in the 90's, there was a great deal of male hate n those circles so I turned away from it. I am glad to see that my experience was with the fringe elements of the movement at that time. However It did cause me to want to stick with concepts that did not have fringe elements such as secular humanism. 3 hours ago · Like Lee Moore and I really need to proofread before I post. 3 hours ago · Like Gretchen Robinson I think the term 'male hate' can be about male fear of strong, smart women who have found their voices. I'm not saying you. I'm saying this is a cultural meme. I'm saying, again, that if you listen, and ask some questions, and listen some more, and don't get defensive, you will learn something about half the human race. And women, too, need to listen to your comments and not blame all men. I did that as a new feminist. I don't know much about the 90s feminism. But I've moved more towad inclusive humanism than toward feminism. 3 hours ago · Like Gretchen Robinson “I myself have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is: I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat.” ― Rebecca West 3 hours ago · Like Lee Moore If my views get me labeled as a feminist so be it, I just dont identify as one. I hoever have seen some men (mostly republicans) fitting your description to the letter. The male hate I was referring to had to do with a series of statements that add... S ee M ore 3 hours ago · Like · 2 Gretchen Robinson I think we all make our commitments to different perspectives that make sense to us. Ultimately, I hope humans get beyond categories of race and gender, etc. But first there needs to be a lot of healing and recovery effort. And most of that is still... S ee M ore 2 hours ago · Like · 1 Roxie Deaton When are you going to interview PZ Myers? 2 hours ago · Like · 1
Gretchen Robinson PZ is one of the problem people. Never forget the nasty thing he said about Paul Kurtz. Uncalled for and unkind. The Dalai Lama said, "My religion is kindness." We humanists would do well to take that on, too.
2 hours ago · Like
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Roxie Deaton Bull. He's a participant, and an important one. Who are you going to make peace with if not your enemies? 2 hours ago · Like Lee Moore A request was sent, waiting to hear back. Though he blasted any plan for civil discourse and probably isnt interested in speaking with me. 2 hours ago · Like Lee Moore Also the only way I have found to reach him would be from his Facebook. I do not have his email addy. If one of you has a better way of reaching him please forward a request to be interviewed. 2 hours ago · Like Roxie Deaton His writing was confrontational, but I happen to be a fan, so I didn't mind. How do you anticipate laying out the terms of the cease-fire, as was mentioned in his blog post? I have been an observer from the sideline, but a supporter of Skepchik's, and from what I see the positions are mutually exclusive. I wish you well, but my intuition says your time is better spent in other pursuits. about an hour ago · Like Lee Moore Roxie, my time is better spent in my own outreach work, however as this conflict has directly effected that work I have felt the need to do something about it. I used to be a fan of PZ until I started taking notice of some of his practices against a... S ee M ore about an hour ago · Like Write a comment...
Harry Shaughnessy I am proud to share our new documentary designed to expose the abusive methods of Child Evangelism Fellowship and their 'Good News Club' events. Members of Triangle Freethought Society went 'under cover' to get footage inside a Good News Club event. We were able to capture the organizers and members sharing their crazy beliefs on camera! We have already been contacted by a concerned parent in PA who will be sharing this video with other parents at their school which recently announced a new club. Please share this link with your members to learn more about how you can fight this fundamentalist attack on our public schools.
Sophia Investigates The Good News Club www.youtube.com In 2001 the Good News Club won a 6 to 3 Supreme Court case that gave them the right to set up evangelical ministries in public elementary schools. This docum... Like · Comment · Follow Post · Share · 3 hours ago Lisa Ridge and 4 others like this. Julie Grunewald Williams watched it today, very good!! about an hour ago · Like Write a comment...
O LDER P O ST S
Teresa MacBain The Clergy Project makes a BIG announcement!! http://clergyproject.org/news/2013/02/12/the-clergy-project-announcesthe-addition-of-employment-transitional-assistance-grant/
The Clergy Project - Announcing Employment Transitional Assistance Grant For Non-Believing Clergy www.clergyproject.org The purpose of The Clergy Project is to provide a safe haven for active and former clergy who do not hold the supernatural beliefs of their religious traditions. Like · Comment · Follow Post · Share · 16 hours ago Brian Fields, Lisa Ridge, Adam Brown and 19 others like this.
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Bruce Press I wonder if Mr Ratzinger is going to take advantage of this opportunity? 16 hours ago · Like · 8 Marilee Harrison Wonderful news! 14 hours ago via mobile · Like Write a comment...
Lisa Darlene Before you see Jesus and freak out...please take a look at this organization. Their goal is to unite non-believers with (progressive, liberal, open-minded) believers to make the world a better place. I really think they are on to something great.
We Occupy Jesus -What is "We Occupy Jesus"? A movement for all individuals, regardless of their own personal beliefs or disbeliefs in any god, who identify with the positive message of the Jesus narrative, who can unite under common principles and practical goals to make the world a better place through tolerance... Page: 811 like this Like · Comment · Follow Post · Monday at 10:10pm near Tucson, AZ Gretchen Robinson likes this. View 3 more comments Brian Fields I agree with the Charles and Carl - Jesus is a symbol for Christians that means one thing, but to those of us familiar with ALL of the Christian narrative, Jesus means something else. If you want to get nonbelievers involved, it'd be better to have a slogan based on what it's about, rather than a religious figure. 16 hours ago · Like Sheila Jean Cole I appreciate the effort and strive to do the same thing with our atheist group, but the name will be an instant turnoff as many atheists don't believe Jesus existed either. 16 hours ago · Like Write a comment...
Scott Rhoades The Secular Coalition of Pennsylvania is proud to announce the opportunity of a lifetime! Professor Richard Dawkins will meet with a small group of lucky people for an intimate lunch in Philadelphia on March 13, 2013. Tickets for this event will be extremely limited and priced accordingly. The organization’s goal is to improve the lives of secular Americans in Pennsylvania by lobbying for the separation of church and state in Pennsylvania. Proceeds will benefit the Secular Coalition of PA and help us to achieve our goals for 2013. This will not be an event where the speaker stands apart from the audience. In addition to sharing his experience and ideas on the subject of church/state separation, Professor Dawkins is interested in conversing with participants in order to gain a better understanding of the political landscape in this country and the hurdles we face. The small number of guests attending this lunch will take an active part in this conversation with Professor Dawkins as we sit and break bread together. I don’t think I can overstate what an extraordinary opportunity this is for the small group of people that will receive tickets for this event. Ticket prices, where to purchase them, and other information will be forthcoming soon. If you are interested in having lunch with Professor Dawkins and SCP or have any further questions please contact us at Pennsylvania@secular.org or keep an eye on the Secular Coalition of Pennsylvania website (http://secular.org/states/chapters/pennsylvania) for updates. While there you can also sign up to receive alerts and updates about matters concerning all secular Pennysylvainians.
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The Secular Coalition for Pennsylvania | Secular Coalition for America secular.org Despite the fact that there are tens of millions of nontheistic Americans, we remain one of the most marginalized groups in the country. The Secular Coalition for America is working to make sure that we are heard on Capitol Hill. We fight in Washington DC against religious privileging on a federal… Like · Comment · Follow Post · Share · February 9 at 10:04am Brian Fields, Lisa Ridge and 3 others like this. View 1 more comment Janice Rael Message forwarded to the Philadelphia Atheists Meetup. Monday at 2:22pm · Like · 3 Scott Rhoades Thanks Janice. That really bumped up our responses. Monday at 3:28pm via mobile · Like · 2 Write a comment...
David Williamson Those of us in the freethought community agree that there should be no “battle” for the souls of our children in public schools. If, however, those in power decide there must be such a battle, then let us also agree that reason and science must be defended. While there will never be clear winners and losers in this fight, non-theistic students must know there is a place for them in our ranks and let’s together welcome them into our community.
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Noelle Dildine George Has anyone developed a comprehensive list of all the secular/freethought organizations that a local group can join as an affiliate, team, ally, chapter, etc.? If so, where is it?
Like · Comment · Follow Post · February 7 at 3:32pm near Houston, TX View 8 more comments Chris Dees Here is a list of a few, everything on our website is a work in progress and can be updated at any time. http://www.sauceforall.com/resources/get-affiliated/ Sauce For All – Get Affiliated! www.sauceforall.com SAUCE FOR ALL stands for "Southern Atheists United for Candid Expression, Freeth... See More February 9 at 8:48pm · Like Noelle Dildine George Greg Langer can you send me an e-mail about it? Is it the same thing Todd Stiefel has been working on? February 9 at 9:57pm · Like Write a comment...
Chris Dees Everyone now and then our group here at MS State holds join meetings with our Philosophy and Religion Club, which is mainly comprised of Christians. They asked me to give a talk to their group since they said
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that we always bring interesting discussion to the room. I agreed to the talk and ended up giving a presentation on understanding what atheism is and trying to clear up a few misconceptions about us. This was my first presentation so there is definitely need for improvement, but I was going to see if I could get some feedback from ya'll. I tried to make it fairly informative and I included several things from Dr. Darrell Darrel Ray's Clergy and Secular Therapist projects, to some of the main NPOs such as Secular Students, American Atheists, and the America Humanist Association. It's about a 30 minute talk so if ya'll aren't too busy maybe ya'll can give it a gander and tell me how it can be improved upon as far as the presentation goes as ...
See More "What is an Atheist? - A Better Understanding of the Godless" - Chris Dees www.youtube.com On January 24th, 2013 Sauce For All Co-Founder Chris Dees gave his first presentation at Mississippi State University on positive atheism with hopes to clear... Like · Comment · Follow Post · Share · February 9 at 4:31pm near Starkville, MS 2 people like this. Chris Dees Every* February 9 at 4:31pm · Like Write a comment...
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Member Directory * If you are going to add your information or edit the document, please post a message on the group wall first and delete your message when you're done. If two people try to edit the document at one time information can be lost. Please use a browser other than Internet Explorer as there are known problems when trying to edit FB Docs with IE and... Continue Reading Like · Comment · Unfollow Post · February 9 at 3:26pm Gender Equality, John Kieffer, Ayanna Watson and 11 others like this. View previous comments 2 of 53
Matthew Foltz The info is in the directory, but the spacing is off. January 13 at 1:14pm · Like Derek Johnson I fixed. January 13 at 1:21pm · Like · Write a comment... 1
Marissa Torres Langseth http://forum.patas.co/topic/179-how-important-is-money-to-youwhat-isyour-concept-about-money-as-an-atheist/
How important is money to you..what is your concept about money as an atheist. - Philosophy forum.patas.co PATAS is a social organization that provides social action for the promotion of atheism and agnosticism in the Philippines. Like · Comment · Follow Post · Share · February 9 at 10:09am near New York, NY Mike Smith likes this. Write a comment...
Debbie Allen All publicity is good publicity. Rick Stravinsky had an excellent editorial in yesterday's UT about the San Diego secular community. http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/feb/07/tp-secular-san-diegansnot-faceless-unknowns/
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Timeline Photos All publicity is good publicity. Rick Stravinsky had an excellent editorial in ... See More By: Debbie Allen Like · Comment · Follow Post · February 8 at 5:20pm Dan Ellis and Bill Flynn like this. Write a comment...
The Unbelievers - Official Trailer www.youtube.com 'The Unbelievers' follows renowned scientists Richard Dawkins and Lawrence Krauss across the globe as they speak publicly about the importance of science and... Like · Comment · Follow Post · Share · February 8 at 5:08pm Lisa Ridge and Rose Jansen like this. Josh Combs in case you wanted to try and get a screening February 8 at 5:09pm · Like Write a comment...
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