ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164

) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

Detective Sergeant Daniel NIELSEN:

Alright? Okay?

Detective Mary VRUNA:

Ya (UI)

NIELSEN:

It’s Tuesday, January 25th of 2011. The time right now is 10:01 a.m.; I'm Detective Sergeant Daniel NIELSEN, 5-8-0-9 of the Toronto Police Service Homicide Squad. I’m in room B029 of Maplehurst Correctional Institute with my partner, Detective Mary VRUNA , spelled V-R-U-N-A, badge 7-1-6-4. Ah, we have asked to see inmate Richard Esbar KACHKAR, spelled KA-C-H-K-A-R. Ah, security officers Zolten RONKAI and Darren JONES have gone to get him from the medical wing of the Institute.

MALE:

Well, there's a cell unit I would have taken normally but ah they got him in the shower.

NIELSEN:

He’s in the shower?

MALE:

He’s in the shower and so.

NIELSEN:
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Okay.

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

MALE:

We’re gonna (sic) be delayed by a few minutes.

NIELSEN:

A few minutes?

MALE:

Yeah. 5 or 10 minutes or however long it takes him to have a shower and get dried off and get clothed and so.

NIELSEN:

So okay. Well, we’ll wait.

VRUNA:

M-hm.

MALE:

Was in the shower - -

NIELSEN:

Sure.

MALE:

- - as we speak and when we walked in.

VRUNA:

Okay, do you want to re-start?

MALE:

Yeah.

VRUNA:

Okay and just maybe the time again?

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Yeah and we've been told the inmate ah Mr. KACHKAR is in the shower and we’re gonna (sic) be delayed.. So we're gonna (sic) off the recording at ah 10:03 a.m.

MALE:

I wasn’t expecting that (UI)

NIELSEN:

Ya we (UI) that that has to be turned off.

VRUNA:

Oh, sorry.

(Tape stopped) (01:48mins)

VRUNA:

Okay, we’re going.

NIELSEN:

Okay. We’re on video and um and we’re being recorded again and ah it's Tuesday, January 25th 2011 and the time right now is 10 - 10 a.m. and we're at the Maplehurst Correctional Institute; room B029 which is the Halton Police Liaison Team Office. We're in the main office. I'm Detective Sergeant Daniel NIELSEN, badge 5-8-0-9. My surname is spelled N-I-E-L-S-EN. Present with me here is my partner, Detective Mary VRUNA, badge 7-1-6-4 and the spelling is V-R-U-N-A and we’re with the Homicide Squad. We have asked to see inmate Richard Esbar KACHKAR , spelled K-A-C-H-K-A-R.

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

(Background noise.)

NIELSEN:

And we’re waiting for security officers; Zolten RONKAI, and the surname is spelled R-O-N-K-A-I and Darren JONES to bring him from the medical infirmary wing of the Institute.

VRUNA:

We need to know the time when he's in the room.

(Speaking in the background – inaudible.)

NIELSEN:

Hi Richard.

Richard KACHKAR:

Hi.

NIELSEN:

How are you? Come on in here. I'm Detective Sergeant ah NIELSEN and this is my partner De’- Detective VRUNA.

VRUNA:

Hi.

KACHKAR:

Nice to meet you.

NIELSEN:

We’re with the Toronto Police Homicide Squad and uh I'm just gonna (sic) ask you to sit over there okay and the time right now is 10:13 a.m.

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

Okay.

NIELSEN:

Richard and we've never met---

KACHKAR:

No.

NIELSEN:

---and um just so you know we’re being - we are on video camera and we’re being recorded okay? Um, I'm just gonna (sic) introduce more formally who we are. Ah, Detective VRUNA and I are the lead Homicide Investigators into the death of Ryan RUSSELL okay. We didn't see you at the hospital. Ah, some other officers met went and they (UI) arrested you and charged you. Okay? But we’re gonna (sic) ask you some questions; but before I get into that, I'm just gonna (sic) go through a few things. Um, we’re in a – an office right now um it's room B029 of the Halton Police Liaison Team Office. Ah it's normally occupied and it's not occupied ah and so we can sit here and talk to you today okay? Um the door is shut behind me, there's a window and it's clear ah it's not blocked. Ah security officer Zolten RONKAI and Darren JONES are just in that room, it’s called a DNA testing room. Um, they have a clear view in here but they can't hear what's being said okay? Um, for the record

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

um do you see anybody else in this room other than ah Detective VRUNA and myself?

KACHKAR:

No sir.

NIELSEN:

Okay and yourself -- there's nobody else in this room?

KACHKAR:

No sir.

NIELSEN:

Okay. So what I'm gonna (sic) start ah Richard um I know you were arrested -- I'm just gonna (sic) run through what you were arrested for okay; and you - and you have been charged and I know you've been to court. The First Degree Murder is in relation to a police officer by the name of Ryan RUSSELL and that occurred in the early morning hours of January 12th of this year just a little over a couple weeks ago, alright; So those are the charges that you're facing and you’ve been formally charged. You’ve been to court now I think twice is that correct? Okay. Now I just wanna (sic) make sure that you understand your rights before we talk any further. Do you understand what you've been charged with?

KACHKAR:

I mean what you've told me. I mean.

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Okay.

KACHKAR:

M-hm.

NIELSEN:

You understand? Ah, it's my duty to inform you ah that you have the right to retain and instruct counsel without delay. You have the right to telephone any lawyer you wish and you also have the right to free legal advice from a Legal Aid Lawyer. If you are charged with an offense and you've been ah charged Um, you may apply to the Ontario Legal Aid Plan for assistance, 1- 800- 265- 0451 is a toll-free telephone number that will put you in contact with a Legal Aid Duty Counsel Lawyer for free legal advice right now. Do you understand that?

KACHKAR:

I did that already.

NIELSEN:

Okay so do you understand that?

KACHKAR:

Yes.

NIELSEN:

Okay. Um, do you wish to call a lawyer right now?

KACHKAR:

I need a lawyer to help me, I don't know what happened. I don't know what's going on here.

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Okay. I'm just -- do you want to speak to a lawyer before you speak to us or are you okay to speak to us?

KACHKAR:

No, I should speak to a lawyer; I should have my lawyer please.

NIELSEN:

Okay.

KACHKAR:

Because I'm ah---

NIELSEN:

Have you retained a lawyer by the way?

KACHKAR:

I'm in the process now of calling some people and---

NIELSEN:

Do you have a lawyer?

KACHKAR:

Not yet.

NIELSEN:

Okay. So you’ve ah - you've not retained any lawyer?

KACHKAR:

No, because I just got applied for Legal Aid and - and then just applied for Legal Aid so now I'm looking for a lawyer.

NIELSEN:
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Okay. So what I’m going to do is there's a telephone here---

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

Okay.

NIELSEN:

---um before we go any further so what I'll do is - and we'll ah bring you into the next room and I'll put the telephone there and we’ll give you privacy okay. Now I – I should tell you that we can’t hear what you say because of the circumstances you will be under observation. Do you understand that?

NIELSEN:

Okay, I will call duty counsel and um actually we have to call them first is how it's gonna (sic) work and we’ll call duty---

KACHKAR:

I called one this morning.

NIELSEN:

Did you?

KACHKAR:

Yeah, I called a lawyer cuz (sic) I have a list. So, I called a lawyer, said she’s gonna (sic) get back to me or I should call back at 2 or something after lunch to see if - if she's gonna (sic) be ah available so I have a few that I want to call.

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Okay. Um we were provided the name of a la’- of a lawyer – of a - a lawyer by the name of ah Magdalena WISOMUSKA. Have you spoken to her? (KACHKAR shaking head) So what's your preference, would you like us to call a – a certain lawyer or would you like us to call Duty Counsel to see if you can get some legal advice?

KACHKAR:

Well, in court already they said that um I should call the - I should have some lawyers that I should call.

NIELSEN:

Okay. But I'm asking you what - what – what do you wanna (sic) do right now?

KACHKAR:

Right now probably just call those – ah call them and then - and then listen to what they have to say. Cuz (sic) I don't kn’- I don't know what happened officer; I really don't. I'm running very scared. It never happened to me in my life. I don't know why I did it or what happened? I don’t have a – and---

NIELSEN:

Okay. But – but you know listen, before you go any further we'll ah - what we'll do is - so you don't have - I just want to make sure I'm - I understand that you have not spoken to a lawyer, you’ve not retained a lawyer?

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

Yeah. No.

NIELSEN:

You understand what's involved in that?

KACHKAR:

Legal Aid, like a Legal Aid they proved that and then find a lawyer who wants to---

NIELSEN:

So you’ve not actually been interviewed by a lawyer? (KACHKAR shakes head) Okay what I'm gonna (sic) do then based on what you're telling me is um we will call um Legal Aid, the number, and put them in - put you in touch with a lawyer so you can speak to a lawyer and get some legal advice okay? We'll do that. So we’re gonna (sic) have to make a phone call and what I will do is I’ll have the officers um - actually, I'm just gonna (sic) speak to them and see what the best way of coordinating that is okay. Let me just ask them. (NIELSEN off camera) What he wants is - we're gonna (sic) call a – ah Duty Counsel so I think probably the best thing for us to do is to make the call, we’ll let you take him back to his room.

MALE:

Okay.

NIELSEN:

Ah, subject to what you think I’ll call Duty Counsel and Legal Aid and wait for them to call me back.

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

MALE:

Alright.

NIELSEN:

When they call me back---

MALE:

M-hm.

NIELSEN:

---um maybe we can bring him back and he can speak to counsel---

KACHKAR:

Okay.

NIELSEN:

---ah here or is there some other area where he can speak to Legal Aid?

MALE:

Um---

NIELSEN:

And if they call here can we ---

MALE:

Well, why don't – why don’t we try calling them while we have him here?

NIELSEN:

Yeah. They won't - they won't answer ah it's the 1- 800-number and we have to give them information to call back.

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

MALE:

Oh, okay. Okay.

NIELSEN:

That’s how it works.

MALE:

So um, I think here is as good as any.

NIELSEN:

Okay. So in the meantime while we’re waiting and we’ll – and we’ll – can we take him back to his room?

MALE:

Now the only other thing that we can do is he's entitled to a - he's able to make a collect call from his cell. We have one of these (inaudible) telephones.

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

MALE:

Um, that ah - if the duty counsel calls - calls back and like if he gives you a phone number---

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

MALE:

---that he can call collect.

NIELSEN:
13 of 259

M-hm.

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

MALE:

Then he can call the Duty Counsel from his cell.

NIELSEN:

Why don't I try that. So what we’ll do is ah - we’re gonna (sic) do that okay Richard? I’m gonna (sic) call Duty Counsel and the officer is gonna (sic) take you back to the secure area---

KACHKAR:

M-hm.

NIELSEN:

---and we’ll call duty counsel and when they call me; I'm gonna (sic) get a number that you can speak to somebody okay?

KACHKAR:

Thank you.

NIELSEN:

Okay. So it's ah 10:21 a.m. and these officers are gonna (sic) take you back to your area okay?

KACHKAR:

Okay. (Tape stopped)

NIELSEN:

Okay. It’s Tuesday, January 25th, 2011, and the time now is 11:34. I’m Detective Sergeant Daniel NIELSEN, 5 8 0 9 of the Toronto Police Homicide Squad. Maplehurst Correctional Institute in room B029; I’m with my partner Detective Mary

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

VRUNA and Richard KACHKAR and we’re in the DNA room with security officer Zolten RONKAI and Darren JONES. And Richard, we are being recorded again and we have a Duty Counsel Lawyer by the name of Susan PORTEUS on hold. Okay Richard, you have asked us to speak to a – a lawyer and so we have a duty counsel lawyer ah we’re gonna (sic) forward you some privacy and for the record the officers will be just outside this door.

KACHKAR:

Okay.

NIELSEN:

We’ll be just inside this door. Ah, because of the security measures we’ll be able to see ah and we ask that you remain seated where you are and you have privacy. We can’t hear what’s being said okay? So when you’re finished the phone and I’ll just ask you to hang it up and then ah we’ll speak to you okay? So we’re gonna (sic) shut the doors right now and the time right now is ---

VRUNA:

Hi, Ms. PORTEUS? Hi, I’ve got Richard KACHKAR here um and I’m gonna (sic) give him the phone and then we’ll be leaving the interview room okay? Yes, he does. Okay and there – there you go.

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Okay it’s ah 11---

KACHKAR:

And what were we talking about?

NIELSEN:

2011 and the time by my watch right now is 11:34 a.m. I'm Detective Sergeant Daniel NIELSEN, 5-8-0-9 of the Toronto Police Homicide Squad, Maplehurst Correctional Institute in room B029 and this is my partner Detective Mary VRUNA and ah Richard KACHKAR and in the DNA room um with security officers; Zolten RONKAI and Darren JONES and ah Richard we're now being recorded again. Um you just got off the phone with a lawyer, Susan PORTEUS is that correct?

KACHKAR:

Yes.

NIELSEN:

Okay. I'm just gonna (sic) accompany us back in the interview room. Just have a seat over there okay? Thank you. You understand we’re still being recorded right Richard?

KACHKAR:

Yes sir.

NIELSEN:

Okay. Have you spoken to a - a lawyer?

KACHKAR:
16 of 259

On the phone.

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Susan PORTEUS on the phone?

KACHKAR:

Yeah.

NIELSEN:

Alright. I'm just gonna (sic) go over a – a couple of things. Um, I told you what the charges you're facing are. I’m just gonna (sic) recite them again just so you’re clear. It’s First Degree Murder and it's in relation to events that took place on January 12th a little - almost 2 weeks ago ah in the morning of January 12th 2011 okay? Um, in relation to one witness - or one victim is a a police officer by the name of Ryan RUSSELL and ah he died. Those are the charges that you're facing alright. I explained them earlier. Um and do you wish to say anything in answer to the charges? You're not obliged to say anything unless you wish to do so, but whatever you say in relation to the charges may be given as evidence. Do you understand that?

KACHKAR:

Yes sir.

NIELSEN:

Okay. In your words, what does that mean to you?

KACHKAR:

It means that I whatever I say could be used as evidence.

17 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Okay. Alright and we’re being recorded ah and we’re taking some written notes as well okay; and ah the other thing I wanna (sic) ask you is if you have spoken to any police officer before you met us or to anyone with authority and that includes the Security Correctional Service people. Um or if any such people have spoken to you in connection with this case, I want it clearly understood, I don't want it to influence you in making any statement. Do you understand what that means?

KACHKAR:

Yeah. People talking and since everybody knows something anyways but I don’t know.

NIELSEN:

Yeah. But did you under’- what - in your words what does that mean to you?

KACHKAR:

That they’ll say a lot of things but it hasn’t - it’s not what you're talking about. You’re saying you’re…

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

What ah - and what that means is has anybody made any promises to you to say something to us? Ah, anybody made any threats to you to say anything to us or not say anything to us?

KACHKAR:

No.

NIELSEN:

How have you been treated in the facility here?

KACHKAR:

Very nice. They treat me nice here.

NIELSEN:

They treat you well? Okay and since your arrest, how have you been treated?

KACHKAR:

Well, I don’t know because I’ve never been arrested before so just standard I guess, I’m just being put in my room and wait there and they have somebody watch me and I’d be eating my food and have my bandages checked and that’s it. I haven't had any communication.

NIELSEN:

So when you went to the hospital, how did you get treated there, how were you - how did you feel you were treated there?

KACHKAR:

I don't recall. I don't recall the hospital incident and everything. I don't recall that.

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Okay. Alright. Ah, I'm just gonna (sic) ask you a couple things and um maybe a little bit about yourself and ah and it's up to you whether you want to answer it or not? I mean it's um - I have spoken to your wife, Maro. I understand um that you've been married for quite some time is that right? Ah, how – how long have you been married for?

KACHKAR:

20 years or 22 years.

NIELSEN:

20 years?

KACHKAR:

Yeah.

NIELSEN:

You’re very soft-spoken Richard and I'm just gonna (sic) ask you to try to ah---

KACHKAR:

22 years sir.

NIELSEN:

22 years? Okay.

KACHKAR:

M-hm.

NIELSEN:
20 of 259

And um and you have a couple of kids?

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

Yes.

NIELSEN:

And that's ah as’- Ashley and Berj is that right?

KACHKAR:

Yes sir.

NIELSEN:

Okay and um we’re gonna (sic) speak to that and just to - I have spoken to Ashley by the way. She asked me to pass the message on to you, I promised that I would. I'm gonna (sic) do that now. She asked me to tell you that she loves you.

KACHKAR:

Okay.

NIELSEN:

Alright? So, I did tell her that I would say that.

KACHKAR:

M-hm.

NIELSEN:

Um, have you seen them? When’s the last time you seen them?

KACHKAR:

I don’t know, I think after New Year's or New Year’s.

NIELSEN:

After New Year’s?

21 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

Before New Year’s.

NIELSEN:

Yeah?

KACHKAR:

Yeah, because um I'm not working and things like that and at home you know I'm kind of just - because it's not my house so I just stay there sometimes when I don't I stay at my place. I have a little building that I stay at and---

NIELSEN:

Okay. Which now - which - and when you say it's not your house, which house are you talking about?

KACHKAR:

My wife’s place because it’s like a kind um – um a co-op housing.

NIELSEN:

Okay.

KACHKAR:

She’s there because she has like a medical condition.

NIELSEN:

Alright.

KACHKAR:

And it when our and – and she needed to get her time together so she was – she’s with the kids there and so me going there sometimes puts stress on her and you know she doesn't have time

22 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

for me she doesn’t have you know she wants to water her plants or something you know she's not - I have to call her.

NIELSEN:

Okay so were you - were you staying there?

KACHKAR:

No. No.

NIELSEN: KACHKAR:

No and then ah - I’m just wondering; is that the – the co-op I'm not supposed to be there it’s just I go see my dogs there. I have some dogs there.

NIELSEN:

How many dogs do you have there?

KACHKAR:

I have three.

NIELSEN:

Three dogs and they – and they’re your dogs?

KACHKAR:

Ah, the one that – that one um and the miniature pincher, from the other apartment – I got, I got that when she was in the hospital.

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

23 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

And then the other one too; the other Chanel is my dog too. They’re hers, she takes care of them. They’re her dogs.

NIELSEN:

She takes care of them?

KACHKAR:

Yeah, they’re her dogs.

NIELSEN:

They’re her dogs?

KACHKAR:

Yeah she registered them and gets their shots and everything.

NIELSEN:

Okay. Now how long is your – has your wife ah lived there at that address?

KACHKAR:

2005?

NIELSEN:

2005?

KACHKAR:

Yeah.

NIELSEN:

And did you live there with her at all? (KACHKAR shakes head) So you - you never lived there with her?

KACHKAR:
24 of 259

No.

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

And – and – and am I right in saying that your wife lives there with your two children? (KACHKAR nods head) Ashley and – and Berj?

KACHKAR:

Like on occasions, I do – I go there, I visit you know a day or like oc’- occasions I go there and visit, but I'm not welcomed there. I’m not.

NIELSEN:

You're not welcomed there?

KACHKAR:

No.

NIELSEN:

Now why is that ah Richard?

KACHKAR:

I don’t know. I don't know. Again, I don't know. You know, I – I - doesn't matter where and if I’m on the other side of the world, I'm concerned especially about Ashley and Berj; you know who they go out with like the wi’- the wife will tell me oh she's got this boyfriend or whatever so I'll make sure I’m there. You know where are they going and you know they think they're going camping or they think they're doing a lot of things. So, I have to say to her you're not doing that, you're coming home at 11. But she was working and she's coming home and she wants

25 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

to go somewhere else at 12, I says you're not gonna (sic) do that. Her mom doesn't have that ability. Her mom is just a nice lady and everything and she just doesn't like arguments. But---

NIELSEN:

Okay. So you - you're talking about your daughter now?

KACHKAR:

Yeah.

NIELSEN:

And your son?

KACHKAR:

For my daughter and my son, I’m all – you know and I'm always there. Even though I'm not wanted there, I'm not supposed to be there, at least I do that, whether they like it or not. You know because I know there were some things involved and kids in high school what they do. So, I – I always wanted to be part of that. Now when they got older ah Berj is doing his thing and he has his construction and his - and his friends he's older; and Ashley is at her school. I'm fine now. Her mom is ah taking care of things.

NIELSEN:

You think ah your wife is looking after things better now?

KACHKAR:

Yeah.

26 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

So it wasn't so good before?

KACHKAR:

Yeah. Because kids were younger and they’re swearing at everybody and everything like that you know and---

NIELSEN:

Yeah.

KACHKAR:

---and at their mom and everything.

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

So mom sort of got used to that thing and I don't get used to it. When they swear that says that’s it you’re out of here. There’s no way you can, it’s not your house. I said I don't care whose house it is and those kind of issues so.

NIELSEN:

So will you have an arg’- did you have arguments with each other?

KACHKAR:

Well, not arguments but they’re like - because they know they can't argue with me---

NIELSEN:

Okay.

27 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

---when I say 11 o'clock, you be home at 11 o'clock.

NIELSEN:

So you're more of the - of the disciplinarian than---

KACHKAR:

That’s right.

NIELSEN:

---and your wife has a heart and she's more soft is that what you're saying?

KACHKAR:

Yeah. She's like you know lets guys go up into her room and they hid in her room and I say no it's not going on. Let them go get their own room that's not how it works. You don’t do that around here. Because they’re coming there smoking - smoking things and stuff like that in the house and I said that not going on and my wife would go and come and tell me; oh and so she leaves and come back and she says oh and they’re smoking, smoking stuff and whatever, whatever. I says you know what those guys you’se (sic) bring over if I – I kept them on the side and I said well - I don't want to repeat it now. But - but I just explained to them that you know - don't do that around here.

NIELSEN:

Okay and how did ah - how did your children accept that from you?

28 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

Um, I think they - I think they – they – they - I think it’s – it’s like me being here, how do I accept it? I don't wanna (sic) be here, but I'm here and you know I have to live by the rules, and the rules are right. So whether I wanted to complain or not you know it's my business.

NIELSEN:

You respect the rules?

KACHKAR:

I respect the rules. I respect what's happening and - and that was the whole reason I went to the shelter and everything. Because I---

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

---I need to get up early, have a little breakfast and have my coffee and go do my work. I’m a toolmaker. I - I get up early and do my thing and go to work; after work come home you know and have a nice dinner, go for a walk but that's all.

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

It’s simple.

NIELSEN:
29 of 259

I understand.

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

So it got too complicated and I don’t want to – I kept up getting up at 12 and then eating this and that and coming home at (UI:01).

NIELSEN:

I’m just gonna (sic) - I’m gonna (sic) get back to that. But I wanted to ask you and you said something um about your house um – um – the one on Welland where your wife and your children live? You said you're not welcome there; what do you mean by that?

KACHKAR:

Every time I go it's like what's he doing here and you know something’s wrong there something -- they just don't like me.

NIELSEN:

Okay.

KACHKAR:

C-cuz (sic) I take up their time, my mom's time, and she pays attention -- just kid stuff officer, just kid stuff - nothing, normal, nothing you wouldn't have in anybody's family; anybody could have that.

NIELSEN:

It sounds like that to me. But---

KACHKAR:
30 of 259

It is – it is - there’s nothing – there’s nothing.

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

---I’ve got teenagers so I can - I can relate a little bit ah and that sounds like what you're describing.

KACHKAR:

Yeah and the thing is I’m kind of---

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

---I’m kind of um - I'm just a normal person too so when things have not – and when things happen you know, could happen. Like they start smoking drugs at school or whatever you gotta (sic) accept it. It happened. That's what they're doing. There's hundreds of kids, they're getting pregnant, they're doing that. So, I don't know if you ah - there's a way to prevent it in every family good or bad.

NIELSEN:

I don't think there's any perfect way other than to understand your - your child's life---

KACHKAR:

Yeah.

NIELSEN:

---and then they try to be the parents.

KACHKAR:
31 of 259

That’s what I did and---

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Is that what you were doing?

KACHKAR:

That’s all what I was doing officer and like and I’ve even one time when – when she went there, she moved to her place, I went to go get my place. There’s many people. I used to go and you know especially these um accommodations and so many people wanted me to live with them and I'm a really good person to get along with and cook and---

NIELSEN:

You’re pretty easy going?

KACHKAR:

Easy going; I never have a problem officer with anybody.

NIELSEN:

Okay.

KACHKAR:

So, but that wasn't the point, I didn’t -- the point was I had to finish this and make sure she’s okay and even until now to go to school. I made sure she - you know she had to go to school, do her student loan, get her things going and it's tough.

NIELSEN:

It seems to me that – that you're trying to be a good dad.

KACHKAR:
32 of 259

That’s all.

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

That’s all you're doing?

KACHKAR:

That’s all I'm doing.

NIELSEN:

Okay. Now is - is there some um - is there some legal um – is there some legal reason why you couldn't go back to the house?

KACHKAR:

No because we've had arguments and things like that. Arguments, my wife used to go you know I don't know when she's coming home. We had that pulling and that tugging and they were calling the police and this happened.

NIELSEN:

Okay.

KACHKAR:

I was never charged or anything. I’d always wait there.

NIELSEN:

Is that on the Welland Avenue house?

KACHKAR:

No, that wasn’t even when I moved to Toronto -- I had a hou’- I had a house in Toronto at Bangor and Sheppard.

NIELSEN:

Okay.

33 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

So that was co’- that was - I was paying over like $2500 dollars for that and the hydro and everything.

NIELSEN:

But did you rent or did you own that house?

KACHKAR:

I was renting.

NIELSEN:

You were renting it?

KACHKAR:

I was working with a company at the time and when it came so it was okay because I was getting okay and then that company moved to Florida so I thought I’d stay. I liked Toronto and my wife liked it here.

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

But she - I wanted - and we needed to scale down. We needed to do something, but she has no communication skills - I mean absolutely.

NIELSEN:

Maro?

KACHKAR:

Yeah. She can't. She knows it. She kind of always takes things as if…when you tell her - when I talked to her she seems to

34 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

know it already and – and ah you know and we can't just say – and say look and we’re in this situation, we need to scale down. Why don't we go take a look at houses you know and it’s in a – and not a - this could be an enjoyable time. But everything seems to be oh no we’re moving again and so I - I have to – I walk lightly. I walk on egg shells. So if we had a chance to drive out - we were driving out to Niagara Falls just for a hou’for a visit---

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

---and everything. She didn't want to come or whatever. But she came and then we stopped at St. Catharines and we found a little apartment there for like $800 dollars or $700 dollars and that's it and we decided to move there with the family; and we moved there ri’- right away and she moved in. It was nice and ah then and then the kids put them to school.. She put them in school, nice schools there.

NIELSEN:

This is in St. Catharines and when - and what – and what year was that ah Richard?

KACHKAR:

About 2004; I think.

35 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

2004? So you moved from Toronto to there?

KACHKAR:

M-hm.

NIELSEN:

Okay and how long had you worked in Toronto?

KACHKAR:

I've been in Toronto since probably May of 2000.

NIELSEN:

So about four years?

KACHKAR:

Yeah or little bit more.

NIELSEN:

Always at that same address on Bangor?

KACHKAR:

Ah, no I was in - I was staying alone at one time when I was working with the company because my family was in Vancouver still. So I was working with the company and then I was travelling like every two weeks I was going home for the weekend. Like I’d leave at night, fly to Vancouver---

NIELSEN:

Oh.

36 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

---see the kids and then go out. I’d leave in the evening and I’d come to take the – the 11 o’clock flight and then go to Toronto, go to the office in the morning.

NIELSEN:

That must of been pretty stressful?

KACHKAR:

Mostly on the kids, not on me.

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

For me it was like you know and was it just a – it was hard.

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

But that’s - I thought that was gonna (sic) at least help me---

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

---and you know my future---

NIELSEN:

Okay.

KACHKAR:

---instead of sitting back. It was hard. I never had a dull moment.

37 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

What company were you working with at that time?

(Background noise.)

KACHKAR:

At that time; Misa Pharmaceuticals.

(Background noise.)

NIELSEN:

Misa? And what were you doing for them?

KACHKAR:

I was just like office manager and helping them. Like tooling and things like that.

NIELSEN:

And when did you start working for – for Misa Pharmaceuticals?

KACHKAR:

I think 99.

NIELSEN:

1999? And you said you were living in Vancouver; were you living in Vancouver at the time? (KACHKAR nods head) Like whereabouts in Vancouver were you living?

KACHKAR:

I was in North Vancouver.

38 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

North Vancouver?

KACHKAR:

On um – on ah Phil Avenue (ph).

NIELSEN:

Phil Avenue (ph). So you were there with – with Maro and your children and ah how did you get this job with Misa Pharmaceuticals?

KACHKAR:

Um, I don't know through family, through ah – ah my uncle came and I don't really remember that. I don't recall all those things now.

NIELSEN:

Your uncle? What's your uncle’s name?

KACHKAR:

Ah, Fred.

NIELSEN:

Fred? What's his last name?

KACHKAR:

KACHKAR.

NIELSEN:

Fred KACHKAR?

KACHKAR:

M-hm.

39 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

So did he - did he have a - a high position at the company or was it his company?

KACHKAR:

No, it was his son's company.

NIELSEN:

His son’s company?

KACHKAR:

M-hm.

NIELSEN:

And who’s his son?

KACHKAR:

Um, Jack.

NIELSEN:

Jack? So Jack actually owns Misa Pharmaceuticals?

KACHKAR:

I think so, I don't know.

NIELSEN:

Is it and that’s - so that's how you got the job? (KACHKAR nods head) Okay so you started working in Vancouver and you were an office manager?

KACHKAR:

Yeah and he was buying a factory in ah - and buying a factory and ah so I was just doing the due diligence on the - on the acquisition.

40 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Where was that?

KACHKAR:

Ah in New Jersey.

NIELSEN:

In New Jersey?

KACHKAR:

In Ferriton (ph). So I was sent out there and stayed late.

NIELSEN:

What’s the name of the town or city?

KACHKAR:

In Ferriton (ph).

NIELSEN:

Ferriton (ph)?

KACHKAR:

Ferriton (ph).

NIELSEN:

Okay.

KACHKAR:

By Vineland

NIELSEN:

Okay, I don't know New Jersey very well and so.

KACHKAR:
41 of 259

M-hm. So it was a rough place---

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Yeah.

KACHKAR:

---so they found the right guy. I get in there and it's all the comp’- the factory is all dysfunctional and everything so they wanna (sic) sell it and they have their list of all their things.

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

So now I'm gonna (sic) check it, check their software and all that and things are winding up, that’s it.

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

Like that’s what was my job and then from there I would fly back and---

NIELSEN:

Back to Vancouver? Okay so was Misa based out of Misa – Misa Pharmaceuticals?

KACHKAR:

No out of Edmonton.

NIELSEN:

Out of Edmonton? Okay so did you work out of Vancouver or Edmonton?

42 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

Edmonton. Sometimes I would take the lap top, but mostly, I would be in Edmonton. So I've been away from my family since 1999 or so.

NIELSEN:

Since 1999 - that's a long time.

KACHKAR:

I've been with them, but because of the travel and that Y2K thing and all that.

NIELSEN:

Oh, yeah. I remember that.

KACHKAR:

I handled all that because I had my computer; I had my ah you know skills in that area.

NIELSEN:

Are you – you good with the computer?

KACHKAR:

Yeah.

NIELSEN:

Where did you learn that?

KACHKAR:

I've learned that at um (UI:01) College because I studied architecture.

43 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

I heard that and – and---

KACHKAR:

I studied architecture in Armenia. My background is Armenian.

NIELSEN:

Okay. Are you Armenian?

KACHKAR:

Yeah. Well, my - I'm adopted.

NIELSEN:

Oh, you are adopted?

KACHKAR:

I’m adopted into an Armenian family.

NIELSEN:

Okay and then what were you - what are you - your parent’s names? Your adopted parents?

KACHKAR:

Um Betty and Esbar KACHKAR.

NIELSEN:

Esbar?

KACHKAR:

Yes.

NIELSEN:

Betty and Esbar? Okay. Are they still alive? They're not eh? Were they living in Vancouver and they adopted you?

44 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

Yeah, but in Edmonton. I think.

NIELSEN:

In Edmonton?

KACHKAR:

Yeah, I have three older sisters.

NIELSEN:

Okay. Did you have a - another name before you were adopted?

KACHKAR:

Um, see I had -- we had never been told my – my – and I was never told that. People when I - I was never told---

NIELSEN:

Okay.

KACHKAR:

---I was adopted. I was treated nice and everything and then few times it came up and my wife always says oh we need to know who you - I really didn't need to know. I really didn’t want to know because my parents weren't that good. My parents - like people like they’re hard to explain. But where they take their adopted people and they take better care of it so um s’----

NIELSEN:

How old were you when you were adopted?

KACHKAR:
45 of 259

Just a baby.

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Just a baby? So did you - did you ever find out - have you ever met your ah your---

KACHKAR:

No, I---

NIELSEN:

---your birth mother?

KACHKAR:

No. No. I was in Vancouver and in Toronto once and I phoned cuz (sic) I was in Toronto and I - when I was there working and I called - there’s some - there’s now an adoption - an open Adoption Registry and everything like that. So, I was in the process of that.

NIELSEN:

Okay.

KACHKAR:

Like after that I don't know and they sent me a letter or something, but I don't know where that letter is or no - no follow-up.

NIELSEN:

So you – you - you don't -- you had no other name that you knew of that you went by until you were born? (KACHKAR shakes head) Okay and so you - you were adopted in Edmonton when you were a baby?

46 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

M-hm.

NIELSEN:

Okay. Where did you grow up?

KACHKAR:

In Edmonton.

NIELSEN:

You grew up in Edmonton? Okay and do you have any brothers, sisters?

KACHKAR:

Just three older sisters.

NIELSEN:

Three older sisters?

KACHKAR:

Yeah.

NIELSEN:

What are their names?

KACHKAR:

Grace, and Da’- Ingrid and Daisy.

NIELSEN:

Grace?

KACHKAR:

Ingrid and Daisy.

47 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

And Daisy - and were they adopted as well? (KACHKAR shakes head) Okay, so they---

KACHKAR:

I don't think so.

NIELSEN:

Okay. So you---

KACHKAR:

But - I don't think so. It's something like they knew something was different you know and there was always something -normal stuff.

NIELSEN:

How did you find your life in Edmonton when you were growing up?

KACHKAR:

It was rough and it was a tough city you know? You know a tough city. I used to go to c’- store, the corner store and get robbed and punched out, and get robbed as a young kid. From day one, right out in from of the store.

NIELSEN:

Yeah?

KACHKAR:

Just running all the time. School and always running and running and always people just running and problems and---

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Did you um - you went to school in Edmonton I take it? How far did you get in school?

KACHKAR:

I went to high school. Archbishop. I went to Our Lady of the Victories in elementary and then St. Paul's a Junior High and ah high school, I went to um Archbishop MacDonald.

NIELSEN:

How far did you go in high school?

KACHKAR:

Grade 12.

NIELSEN:

Grade 12? How did you do in school?

KACHKAR:

Um, some things I did well, some things I didn't.

NIELSEN:

What were you good at?

KACHKAR:

Like um math and machining and ah - something language arts and either I did really well – really well or I did really bad.

NIELSEN:

What did you do bad in?

KACHKAR:

Um chemistry and stuff like that. It wouldn't make sense to me

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

What was your favourite subjects when you were going through school? I personally, I hated math but ah I liked the sciences.

KACHKAR:

Drafting and things like that. Machine shop, machining.

NIELSEN:

Okay. Were you good at it? Did you have a lot of friends Richard when you were in school? Yeah?

KACHKAR:

Some. A different – some - and some friend. Like I had a few friends, a few certain friends. We – we had certain friends in high sc’- in ah - in high school.

VRUNA:

(Clears throat.)

NIELSEN:

What did you like to do when you were in school? Did you have any hobbies? Did you play sports or anything like that?

KACHKAR:

Yeah. After school we’d – you know our my buddies and I we would do street hockey, do normal things.

NIELSEN:

Yeah? You play hockey?

KACHKAR:

Like I didn’t go into the - I wasn’t able to go play, but I played. I played ah with them - with them when I could.

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Right.

KACHKAR:

I’d find a stick here and tape it up or whatever.

NIELSEN:

Just a regular---

KACHKAR:

Yeah.

NIELSEN:

--- a regular Canadian kid who played street hockey.

KACHKAR:

That’s it. Because my parents brought me up different. I - I started working when I was young I was working when I was 14 working at dishwashing in my first year.

NIELSEN:

Oh, yeah?

KACHKAR:

So, I worked all summer and then---

NIELSEN:

Where was that?

KACHKAR:

That was at Mayfield Inn in Edmonton because my uncle would take me right?

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

14? So, you were young when you started working then?

KACHKAR:

My uncle was the manager there and I liked that and then that school, I had my car. I always had a car when I was 14 even.

NIELSEN:

You had a car when you were 14?

KACHKAR:

When I started to learn my learners---

NIELSEN:

Your learners?

KACHKAR:

---when I was 16 my dad gave me his car and---

NIELSEN:

He gave you the car? What was the first car you had?

KACHKAR:

It’s um a 1978 Meteor Monte Carlo. Because I’d go use that to go pick up my mom and ah from work - she worked at the hospital until 11.

NIELSEN:

So you must of been pretty popular, a 16-year-old with a car?

KACHKAR:

Yeah, I did - it was okay. To a lot of people it was okay, I had a lot of friends and there was no reason to not to be any problems.

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Did you have no - no problems in - in school?

(Background noise - phone ringing.)

KACHKAR:

A couple of times there were some guys, I don't know where they pop out of ah - I don't know like (phone ringing in the background) – KACHKAR we’re gonna (sic) kill you or whatever. Come after me with a knife and---

(Telephone ringing in the background.)

KACHKAR:

---some guys from other schools.

NIELSEN:

Now why would they - why would these---

(Telephone ringing in the background.)

NIELSEN:

---people be saying that to you?

KACHKAR:

Just like bullies, just like today, bullies. They always come out with their plan because I went to an academic school---

NIELSEN:

Right.

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

I need to do my thing and there's some guys that have been in jail already since 12 years old stealing cars or whatever.

NIELSEN:

Okay.

KACHKAR:

So now they're still on - you know I maybe asked his brother – oh, where's your brother and how come he's not in school or whatever and that’s it. They’re chasing me around and keep coming to me Rich and you know the guys wants to kill you with a knife so I’d take off already out of the back door.

NIELSEN:

Were they - was it just you in particular or were there other people?

KACHKAR:

No, it was just me.

NIELSEN:

Or were they be treated the same way?

KACHKAR:

No, it was just me.

NIELSEN:

It was just you eh?

KACHKAR:

Just me.

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

And that sounds pretty tough, but you're finished school right?

KACHKAR:

Yeah.

NIELSEN:

So what did you do when you finished high school?

KACHKAR:

I was working um - with um – with a rental company; I got a job rental - a rental company and he had contracts with um apartments and things. So you find - you call them and we pick you up and then I find you a ten – I’d find accommodations for you like if you called and you said you’re new in town. I'd come and pick you up and he's telling me oh I want to go check out some places and then I know - and that’s it and then I get um a commission. 50% of the first month rent.

NIELSEN:

It sounds pretty good.

KACHKAR:

Yeah.

NIELSEN:

And I mean for a young guy and right out of school?

KACHKAR:

Yeah, I would be a – a lot of my friends always would ask me they need a job, and they need a job and everything. But you

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

know what to go get a job, you have to go get a job that's the first thing.

NIELSEN:

That’s right.

KACHKAR:

You know I can ask and I can do, and I can have contacts, but you really need to just go and get one. So that was that and then – then ah it was just – and people were growing up in high school with hockey and everything and then those years maybe. At la’- after high school my family friend came and he studied in Armenia.

NIELSEN:

Who’s that?

KACHKAR:

His name was Raffy BALIAN (ph). He was a - a doctor.

NIELSEN:

Raffy BABIAN (ph)?

KACHKAR:

BABIAN (ph). He’s a friend and so he's a friend of my - well sister’s husband’s from Lebanon or something so when he came to ah - he came to Edmonton to visit so I went to pick him up, I was like younger too and you know he was older than me. He was a doctor; I think so.

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

How old were you then do you think?

KACHKAR:

Probably, 18.

NIELSEN:

18?

KACHKAR:

So, him – yeah, I helped – and I would go pick him up and go stay at his house because I didn't like my place at home. I didn't like it you know. I wasn't able to do much and---

NIELSEN:

How come?

KACHKAR:

I don't know and you know girls and they always do their own thing. My parents were smoking, chain smokers all the time.

NIELSEN:

Did you get along with your parents?

KACHKAR:

Ah, I did because I – I did - I just did.

NIELSEN:

Yeah?

KACHKAR:

But if otherwise, I didn't because you know I wouldn't. Um, I don't know. Sometimes they did and sometimes we didn't it would all depend on their mood. It wasn't a normal relationship.

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Wha’- what makes it not normal? In your mind?

KACHKAR:

Well, I never seemed to be able to do anything right and---

NIELSEN:

You?

KACHKAR:

M-hm. Yeah.

NIELSEN:

But then now who - gave you that idea?

KACHKAR:

I don't know, just the way it is. You know like I’d go to work.

NIELSEN:

Was it your mother or your father?

KACHKAR:

Kind of yeah and the sisters. Like ah they always knew something I didn’t you know. I’d come - I’d be adopted and then when I was 15, I was like working in the kitchen---

NIELSEN:

Right.

KACHKAR:

---and making prep things and everything so we had to peel garlic right? I peeled - peel bags of garlic. So, I remember when they used to come and pick me up they’d like be ewe and what's

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

that smell? That kind of stuff, stupid stuff. Like now I would of said it’s garlic you know, get used to it. Then I was just a youth, I didn't understand.

NIELSEN:

Okay. So is that the extent of why you didn't think you had a - a great relationship with them?

KACHKAR:

I---

NIELSEN:

Or is there something else? Did you get along - did you get along um better with your dad or your mom?

KACHKAR:

Well, I think with my dad I used to get along and they had a business and everything and I always used to go help them in their business after school or---

NIELSEN:

What, what was the business that they had?

KACHKAR:

A men’s wear store.

NIELSEN:

Men’s wear?

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

And they had it - it was on the other side of the city so after my dad was working, working for the Government all day then he'd go to the store.

NIELSEN:

So he had two jobs? He worked – what did he do for the Government?

KACHKAR:

He was a communication’s technician and operated Government telephones.

NIELSEN:

And then they had a store as well?

KACHKAR:

And then he bought a store.

NIELSEN:

So he was doing both at the same time? What - what was the name of the store?

KACHKAR:

Dior’s Men's Wear (ph).

NIELSEN:

Now was that in Edmonton as well?

KACHKAR:

That was in Edmonton North Town Mall so it was really and I’d have the suits - I remember we came here to Montréal to - and from Tor’- we were in Edmonton and we drove to Montréal and

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

he’d buy the suits and he’d make – he’d make and he would have the things made by Shipley and Ricky Allen. Nice suits.

NIELSEN:

All high-end stuff?

KACHKAR:

And then there was a lot of people that - from you know on the oil rigs and things like that they come in. He set them up nice, a suit on and everything like that.

NIELSEN:

So did they - and did the business do well?

KACHKAR:

The business did really well. It was doing well and my mom would work there too, but she - she worked in the hospital and an administrator in the hos-- hospital.

NIELSEN:

Which hospital was that?

KACHKAR:

Royal Alexander Hospital.

NIELSEN:

So your mom worked in a hospital and your dad worked for the Government and he ran ah the store?

KACHKAR:

And she did - she worked at the store until… she used to work at the store and it could be the morning until he gets there so she

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

can go to her job, so basically we kids were at home and do – just do what we do so when I used to come home and try to make something to eat and---

NIELSEN:

So it sounds to me like your parents were out a lot because of the jobs? So – now, I – I didn't ask you, but are your sisters older than you or younger?

KACHKAR:

Older than me.

NIELSEN:

They’re all older? Now you're 44 right? And how old are your sisters?

KACHKAR:

I don't know a little older than me. 45 or 46 and I mean 48 and ah Daisy 50 something. I lost communication because when my mom was sick and – and I was working and she was sick I came um - I came to see her because she was sick and it's hard - it's hard for me to fly back and forth. Like I had my time every two weeks I could say I’m going home and I could fly out.

NIELSEN:

When was that?

KACHKAR:

Ah, when I started working like with the Pharmaceutical Company.

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Okay.

KACHKAR:

So when my mom was sick and I don't recall the year so I wasn't able to go out that much so when she did pass away and I went there they would - nobody would even hugged me or anything so it was over and it’s just as well.

NIELSEN:

So you weren't very close at that time?

KACHKAR:

I was very close with my mom. My mom.

NIELSEN:

What about your sisters? That's what I'm - is that what you're saying to me?

KACHKAR:

Yeah. But that was just weird and they - and they were just weird like and they were just weird and I didn't have anything to do with them.

NIELSEN:

Why do you think that was?

KACHKAR:

I don't know. I don't know. They enjoyed their lifestyle there and my parents and---

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

So at some point ah when you were growing up with your sisters were you - were you not close with them or you - you weren't? You weren't?

KACHKAR:

No.

NIELSEN:

So and – ah just to get back to what you are talking about with this ah - ah this doctors and is it Ra’- Raffy? This doctor?

KACHKAR:

No.

NIELSEN:

No? What happened there?

KACHKAR:

So, when he came he was a cool guy and everything he said um and he sa’- he told my parents you should send Richard to Armenia.

NIELSEN:

Okay.

KACHKAR:

So that was a surprise to me.

NIELSEN:

And you were 18 at this time?

KACHKAR:
64 of 259

I was 18.

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Yeah.

KACHKAR:

And when he said it, I said I don't think so. I mean, I'm just getting ready now and I'm ready to go because I didn't have any girlfriends or anything like that. We weren't allowed to have…like, guy friends.

NIELSEN:

Yeah.

KACHKAR:

But there was none of that kind of relationships stuff.

NIELSEN:

Were your parents strict?

KACHKAR:

Not really, no.

NIELSEN:

No?

KACHKAR:

No, I could go out and come. They trusted me a lot and I had good friends.

NIELSEN:

How come you didn't have girlfriends?

KACHKAR:
65 of 259

No, I had friends like girls.

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Right.

KACHKAR:

But not those kind of girls that we bring home and sleep with them and stuff like that doesn’t go on like that.

NIELSEN:

And why is that?

KACHKAR:

Just apparently – and just we’re not like that you know?

NIELSEN:

Okay.

KACHKAR:

The same with my wife, she's the first person I met and like the first person I’m with. And I met her in Armenia.

NIELSEN:

Okay.

KACHKAR:

So, I had lots of - I had lots of girls coming and going or whatever.

NIELSEN:

You didn't have like a steady?

KACHKAR:

No.

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Intimate girlfriends?

KACHKAR:

No. No, never.

NIELSEN:

And growing up?

KACHKAR:

No. No.

NIELSEN:

Your wife was the first one is that what you're saying? The first ah woman that you were intimate with? Okay. So Raffy says to your folks you…

KACHKAR:

I should go to the Armenia.

NIELSEN:

Armenia? Okay.

KACHKAR:

So at first I said oh I don't think so and you know and this and that; and ah so I went and I did some research and then when my mom said oh you're going to Armenia. I said, I knew that, then then I better go because my mom made - my mom would then tell me---

NIELSEN:

She wanted to go?

67 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

She said you should go

NIELSEN:

Okay. Do you speak Armenian by the way?

KACHKAR:

Yeah.

NIELSEN:

Did you learn that growing up?

KACHKAR:

No. So, when I went there I didn't speak any language or anything. I went by myself and I had a few hundred dollars in my pocket and a suitcase and - and then go to Montréal and then I went to Moscow and then when I was there um---

NIELSEN:

So you're 18, pretty young?

KACHKAR:

Yeah.

NIELSEN:

It must of - now did you go by yourself?

KACHKAR:

By myself.

NIELSEN:

And so what happens when you get there?

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

Ah my flight I kind of figured out and a flight goes there you know I'm kind of like ah - ah I'm kind of shy type so I go and and I’m looking for my flight. My flight’s there and it's gone because I have the ticket from here. The flights gone, flights gone and maybe three days in the – in the airport in Moscow.

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

So my flight is gone and there’s just - and they’re just ignoring me so finally somehow they put me on a plane and I flew there and my relatives picked me up there and I don't know where we were and what was going on.

NIELSEN:

This is Moscow?

KACHKAR:

In Armenia now.

NIELSEN:

Armenia?

KACHKAR:

Armenia and I was coming down with other people and they grab you and everything you know.

NIELSEN:

Is there a city in Armenia?

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

Yerevan.

NIELSEN:

Yerevan?

KACHKAR:

Yerevan.

NIELSEN:

So that's where you landed? Yeah and that's why your relatives went there?

KACHKAR:

Yeah. They picked me up and - and brought me home.

NIELSEN:

Which relatives met you there?

KACHKAR:

My mom's - mom’s older relatives because they're from Egypt. Because there was a geno - in 1915 or something there was a genocide and half my family flew back went to - and stayed in Russia. Some went to Egypt and my mom was born in Egypt.

NIELSEN:

Your mother was born in Egypt. How about your dad?

KACHKAR:

I think my dad was born in Lebanon.

NIELSEN:

Lebanon?

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

Yeah.

NIELSEN:

And they - and they ended up in Russia?

KACHKAR:

No, they never went to Russia.

NIELSEN:

Or Armenia?

KACHKAR:

No they never did. They met in – in Egypt and then my dad they went to – Europe, to Sweden. My dad was setting up the phone systems in the Middle East and my dad’s a phone technician and my mo’- and my mom was setting up the embassies also in Saudi Arabia.

NIELSEN:

Okay.

KACHKAR:

And so.

NIELSEN:

So it's from there that they came to Canada?

KACHKAR:

Yeah and they – and my dad says he liked it there and he had prob’- he liked Beruit he says. But there's always problems and fighting and he says he'd come back to ah - go back to Canada and he came to Edmonton. Actually, he came from some - I

71 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

don't know where Vancouver or something working in factories and so on. But Edmonton is where he - we started in 1964 or something.

NIELSEN:

That’s when you came to Canada? In 64?

KACHKAR:

My two other sisters were born in I think Lebanon. But me and Grace - Grace and I were born in Edmonton.

NIELSEN:

You were born in Edmonton? Okay so this ah - and when you get to Armenia and you’re - what's the name of the town? Yerevan?

KACHKAR:

Yerevan.

NIELSEN:

Yerevan.

KACHKAR:

So it's a preparatory school, a University just for thing, so they give you a little room and then you – you go to class and brandnew language. I thought I was gonna (sic) study Russian and they said no and you're gonna (sic) study Armenian; and Armenian is a very difficult language, 36 letters, complete different and everything.

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

That’s university?

KACHKAR:

Yeah.

NIELSEN:

Okay.

KACHKAR:

I went to university. So we started, started giving me the lo’- the letters of the alphabet and go home you know and then when you go home there’s a lot of students there that already know the language from Lebanon, from different countries. Syria. So they're all partying because that first year is like preparatory for them, next year you go to University.

NIELSEN:

Okay.

KACHKAR:

So again, I had to be alone and now I had problems with them again. I had problems again.

NIELSEN:

What kind of problems?

KACHKAR:

Like um I was learning the language rapidly, I learned it rapidly like it was - it didn't take me long, I could start communicating.

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Did you have like a - do you have a knack for picking up languages?

KACHKAR:

I picked it up quick.

NIELSEN:

Okay.

KACHKAR:

It wasn't a knack. I’m I’m when I'm able and I'm comfortable in everything like anybody else. Have the ability, you can do it. So I remember going to the - I don't know it was a party, a New Year's party and I guess these guys were gang were - and those people I want with and they were from Lebanon and they spoke English. So, I was always hang – hanging – I was with them and then I would - we’d sit there and then um just dancing - you know they dance there and they eat and they dance and everybody was dancing around.

NIELSEN:

Sure.

KACHKAR:

Some guy head butts me or whatever in the - and comes like that pushes me around on the floor. I’m just about to come after him too; and one of my buddies says no don't – don’t do that or whatever.

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Why did he do that to you?

KACHKAR:

Well, I - I don't know maybe I don't know what he was on. It was just I guess there were gangs; two gangs.

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

So, I says - so I sat down for awhile I says better leave and then when I left - I started to leave, I saw those guys – and there’s a whole bunch of guys at the door and all that so.

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

So a big confrontation with them. Pulled out knives and everything and cut me up everything.

NIELSEN:

Where did you get cut?

KACHKAR:

Like on my back and my shirt. It wasn't bad because they were hitting me and it wasn't really - it wasn't really putting me down so I just pu’- did what I could do and then I moved on and then the next day they round all these guys up and find out that um they were after me already.

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

And why? Did you ever find out why they were after you?

KACHKAR:

Because I was with the other group and, you know.

NIELSEN:

They thought you were part of the other group?

KACHKAR:

Yeah and you know where I go, we have fun. I don't hang - I don't like trouble and if I – my and even my – my best friend or something never liked trouble; not even downtown I have a friend and I stay with him. He drinks too much and everything I tell you - you know and I'm---

NIELSEN:

What friend is that?

KACHKAR:

Stevie B - Stephen BROWN.

NIELSEN:

Stephen BROWN?

KACHKAR:

He has an apartment there. He's a nice kid. He's a nice boy.

NIELSEN:

Yeah?

KACHKAR:

He does his Tin thing and everything. He’s just - you know, just a man trying to survive.

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

How long have you known him for?

KACHKAR:

Ah, I met him when I was in Toronto. I met him through some friends because I was – through Stap’- I was getting orders through Staples delivery.

NIELSEN:

Okay.

KACHKAR:

And so I met one guy and he was nice and he had me - after work we met up.

NIELSEN:

Which guy was nice?

KACHKAR:

Norman.

NIELSEN:

Norman?

KACHKAR:

Norman and he was a nice guy and I was new to Toronto and because we had people coming in from the UK and stuff too and they said oh don’t you have any friends or mates? I said; no. So when you - when I don't have I just I don't know it just happened I just pray and I had some friends. So they - and then I met them and then through them I – I’m - I went to s’- the – like oh

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

and we’re going to a birthday party and come along, come along. So that's how I met, that’s how I started to meet my friends’ downtown.

NIELSEN:

In Toronto?

KACHKAR:

In Toronto.

NIELSEN:

Just kind of going to parties, social - regular social events.

KACHKAR:

New experiences for me officer. New experience. I've never been there. Especially in Regent Park there and ah---

NIELSEN:

Yeah.

KACHKAR:

---that corner where I - and why would I go there? I would never go and I don't even know like what - and I go there at night.

NIELSEN:

So these guys are your - and that's where they were living or staying?

KACHKAR:

Yeah. No that's where they live.

NIELSEN:
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That’s where they live?

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

They live. So I see you know where they're living and they ah that life and everything and---

NIELSEN:

When was that - when did you meet ah - when did you start meeting these people in Toronto?

KACHKAR:

It was like 90 um - I just remember 93 or so.

NIELSEN:

93 and that’s when you?

KACHKAR:

No. No, later. Later. Later. 2000. 2003, I think.

NIELSEN:

Okay. Is that when you were here living with your family?

KACHKAR:

Yeah, on Bangor Street in Toronto.

NIELSEN:

Is that when you started meeting these guys?

KACHKAR:

Yeah. I met one guy and then I met his friend; and he was a really nice guy. He's from Jamaica.

NIELSEN:

Which guy is that?

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

His name is Peter.

NIELSEN:

Peter?

KACHKAR:

Peter.

NIELSEN:

Do you know his last name?

KACHKAR:

Um, I do. Peter um PASOA (ph).

NIELSEN:

He’s from Jamaica?

KACHKAR:

Yeah. So, he's nice.

VRUNA:

Sorry, what’s his name?

KACHKAR:

POASA. P-O-A-S-A. POASA. So, he was always nice. When he started working, he started working at Krispy Kreme and driving and we always used to – I always used to call him he and he got - and we always used to talk about work and everything like that. You know, I would tell you officer and if we were - if I was messing around with him, I would - I would tell you know and we’re doing this and that; but we weren't and we were just chilling.

80 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Just doing the - and just regular buddy stuff? Hanging out. What kind of things would you do?

KACHKAR:

Just buy a six pack and sit down you know and then talk about things and because we were older. So now when we were older, a lot of these younger kids are just coming around and this and that. So we started to like you know put - put kids in their place too especially around there. Kids were coming around and - and you know they'd respect us and---

NIELSEN:

So when you were hang around with these guys, you were hanging around Regent Park? That’s where most of um - your buddies lived? This gu’- this guy Steve um how long have you known him for?

KACHKAR:

I just met him at - and he - I met him and he - he was there at one party or something like that. When I was going there ---

NIELSEN:

Yeah.

KACHKAR:

--- It - it was very strange for me. It was strange. The lifestyle was strange so.

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Strange in – in what way?

KACHKAR:

Everybody’s there and going and coming, and they're smoking all that you know and---

NIELSEN:

When you say smoking what do you mean?

KACHKAR:

Well, they’re smoking weed and that.

NIELSEN:

Weed?

KACHKAR:

Yeah.

NIELSEN:

Okay. Not cigarettes, smoking weed?

KACHKAR:

Smoking weed like it’s nothing; I guess.

NIELSEN:

So you were doing drugs?

KACHKAR:

Drinking. Yeah. So for me it was like unusual.

NIELSEN:

Okay.

KACHKAR:
82 of 259

And---

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Did you get into it?

KACHKAR:

No. No.

NIELSEN:

Do - do you smoke ah - you don’t smoke weed? Ever?

KACHKAR:

No, I use to take you know I used to try and everything. But I don't smoke.

NIELSEN:

No? Any other drugs you take?

KACHKAR:

No sir.

NIELSEN:

Never tried ah any other illegal drugs?

KACHKAR:

No.

NIELSEN:

Okay.

KACHKAR:

No. Even - even when I drink if my in-laws are home; I says we’re gonna (sic) drink they say; no, no we don't wanna (sic) drink and so um---

83 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

You don't drink either?

KACHKAR:

I do drink, but I – when I drink, I just become you know I become more open and---

NIELSEN:

You lose your inhibitions.

KACHKAR:

Yeah, I just say things that I say and---

NIELSEN:

That you ah, wouldn’t say when you are…

KACHKAR:

No, I would say it; but when I'm drinking it’s like it's different. It's hard to explain. It's better I don't anyway. It's not good for you.

NIELSEN:

Okay. Do you drink a lot?

KACHKAR:

No. Not even beers.

NIELSEN:

No.

KACHKAR:

Not even beers. No, sir.

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

So when you drink and what – and what would you normally drink?

KACHKAR:

I drink, I don't know maybe make a drink with the wife, a cocktail or something – and if it’s something nice and then we drink it and I just giggle.

NIELSEN:

You just get happy?

KACHKAR:

Yeah. I just giggle.

NIELSEN:

Do you ever have any - any problems with ah drugs or alcohol?

KACHKAR:

No sir.

NIELSEN:

Never?

KACHKAR:

No.

NIELSEN:

This guy Steve; so you know him since about 2000? When’s the last time you seen him?

85 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

By New Year when I came to town and that's why I'm having all these dates um one - I thought it was just after New Year's because on New Year’s, I went - wanted to go home.

NIELSEN:

Yeah.

KACHKAR:

I went home because I was - I went home and they were eating and they just didn't – they were standing by the door and when I came in, my kids said, oh, he's here again, he's here back so.

NIELSEN:

So when you say New Year's are you talking about January 1st?

KACHKAR:

Something like that.

NIELSEN:

Like regular New Year's or some other New Year's?

KACHKAR:

No just regular New Year's.

NIELSEN:

Okay.

KACHKAR:

So then I just turned around and I walked back to um – walked back to ah the bus stop.

86 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Now when you say you went to see them you're talking about your wife and your children?

KACHKAR:

Yeah.

NIELSEN:

Is that the last time you saw them? Can you tell me about that, what happened then? Okay, this is New Year's?

KACHKAR:

I think so.

NIELSEN:

And you went to their house?

KACHKAR:

I think they were eating and getting ready to eat or whatever and I just went in and – I didn’t - I just went in and they were all looking.

NIELSEN:

You went inside?

KACHKAR:

No, just a little bit.

NIELSEN:

So you’re just in the doorway and what happened?

KACHKAR:

They just said you're not welcome and I was prepared for that already. I knew that. That happens often.

87 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Why? Why were you not welcome?

KACHKAR:

I don't know. They don’t tell you - they wouldn't tell me you know?

NIELSEN:

They wouldn’t tell you? Is it – is this – was that something that had been going on for a while ah Richard, that you weren't welcome there?

KACHKAR:

Ah, like when her parents came and I went picked up her parents from the airport, everything is cool and when they wanted to go to Niagara Falls it's all cool we go; they buy their shirts and everything and we get home, come downstairs; “oh you have to go” um.

NIELSEN:

Now whose parents is that?

KACHKAR:

My wife's parents.

NIELSEN:

Your wife's parents?

KACHKAR:

They came in from town and all their relatives came into town; I said fine I'm in and out. You know what I know it's - I know it's

88 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

not right. It’s like right now you could say okay get lost and then - and then and then say okay Richard come in and get lost you know; I - I would go with it. Because you have your authority and you have your right you're an off’- you know and you – you have---

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

---I'm just saying manners is your own business people.

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

If you wanna (sic) tell me, you tell me. But if you don't want to tell me, you don't have to tell me. But they weren’t telling me and then they says oh you have to go so here I go.

NIELSEN:

When was that?

KACHKAR:

Like in summer; like when her parents were here in summer.

NIELSEN:

Last summer?

KACHKAR:

It was hotter days.

89 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Was it last summer of 2010?

KACHKAR:

This this last summer we had the eight. Yeah, the last summer.

NIELSEN:

Of 2010?

KACHKAR:

Yeah.

NIELSEN:

So her parents came to town?

KACHKAR:

Her parents - her parents - her – her sister and brother from Iran. Her other mother-in-law, their two kids. Had like 12 people in the house and they just didn't want me around for sure. So, I just packed my bag and I go. I go to Stevie's house because I had a key for Stephen's house.

NIELSEN:

Is this Stephen BROWN?

KACHKAR:

Stephen BROWN.

NIELSEN:

Stephen BROWN---

KACHKAR:

Yeah.

90 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

---in Regent Park?

KACHKAR:

Yeah and he had a room on.

NIELSEN:

Okay.

KACHKAR:

But he's a nice guy, You know he cooks and everything and we’re okay and nobody comes in that room when I'm there.

NIELSEN:

You guys are good buddies?

KACHKAR:

Yeah, I think so. He – he does his thing. He respects me a lot and you know he does and he always helps me.

NIELSEN:

So you had some problem with your wife's parents?

KACHKAR:

No, I didn't have any problem--- it was nothing just - they just came and after we went out to Niagara Falls and everything and I came down. It’s like oh good we’re gonna (sic) have an evening and go to - and she just said – she said you have to go.

NIELSEN:

Who said you had to go?

KACHKAR:
91 of 259

My wife.

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Your wife. How did you feel about that?

KACHKAR:

Just - used to it already. I was used to having my bag ready already that's how I am.

NIELSEN:

Now you told me initially that you weren't living there at that time?

KACHKAR:

Yeah.

NIELSEN:

Now were you staying there from time to time? (KACHKAR nods head) How often would you stay there?

KACHKAR:

Few days. You know a few days here and there and then. Any time I was there I would be like in the basement. I wouldn't even come out of the basement and that would make her mad and she - and she was mad because I'm not allowed to be there. Because they gave her that on special condition.

NIELSEN:

M-hm. You mean the?

KACHKAR:

The apartment.

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

The ah – the unit?

KACHKAR:

Yeah, the unit.

NIELSEN:

So did they - the understanding was that she could live there---

KACHKAR:

With the kids.

NIELSEN:

---did that, did that have to do with um some kind of income she was getting or?

KACHKAR:

Income and our arguments, and our misunderstanding with the kids.

NIELSEN:

So um when did that become an issue?

KACHKAR:

Those things are always like issues and ever – and every movement with her is like kind of like that you know? I can - I can go there I know the managers there and everything---

NIELSEN:

Yeah.

KACHKAR:

go walk the dogs. I don't have any restraining order or anything like that.

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

So you got no legal restraining order or nothing? So um---

KACHKAR:

It’s when they need me basically they need me; when they don't need me they kick me out of the house, that’s all.

NIELSEN:

Okay. Were you providing any source of ah financial support to your family?

KACHKAR:

Well, when I work, I was working – I’d always work. I’d go work with agencies and ah they’d always call me.

NIELSEN:

Right.

KACHKAR:

So, I'd get up early 4 o'clock, she would make breakfast you know I take my little lunch, and go work and that's what was happening; my – my first job was like working at um – this plastic company in Belleville in the plastic company they make hand dispensers. So, I do really well when I go into these companies---

(TIME IS 1:00:43 VIDEO RECORDING STOPPED
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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

WORKING THE FOLLOWING PORTION IS AUDIO)
NIELSEN: M-hm.

KACHKAR:

---with my tool making experience. I do really well and I get even the jobs $10 dollars an hour but they're paying the $15 dollars an hour so I've got a $10 dollar attitude and they've got a $15 dollar expectation. So, but it didn't matter; I would work always and they would pick me up and plus they pick you up and you - and they charge you $10 dollars.

NIELSEN:

So you – you're making your - you're making money by doing temporary jobs?

KACHKAR:

Ah, yeah and I’ll get – and not only temporary, I worked at Sleighgrove (ph). Any job I get into, I get in.

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:
95 of 259

Nice and welcomed.

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Did you stay long there?

KACHKAR:

Oh, yeah. I stayed long like six months, seven months.

NIELSEN:

Then how would - why would you leave the jobs that you got?

KACHKAR:

It’s over the contract but they’re making heaters and things like that so when that's over I just have to look for a new job.

NIELSEN:

And this is through a job placement agency so there's like a contract they go to the agency---

NIELSEN:

---look for people for a certain period of time? Is that what you're talking about you would say for that length of time; and sometimes I know ah from ah other people's experience ah people get to stay on of those jobs. Did that ever happened to you, did anybody ever offer you---

KACHKAR:

Um---

NIELSEN:
96 of 259

---full-time jobs?

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

---that would be creepy and it had become such a - such a big deal for those people like---

NIELSEN:

Okay.

KACHKAR:

---I was working for Ferrero Roche, Ferrero Roche the chocolate factory at the time.

NIELSEN:

Right.

KACHKAR:

Packaging and everything. I mean you know they got the brown shirts and then the blue shirts and all that; and I have my white coat, I'm happy with my white coat. I'm happy; I don't need a brown shirt or anything.

NIELSEN:

So when you would make money would you provide some some money to your wife?

KACHKAR:

Oh, yeah.

NIELSEN:

How often would you do that?

KACHKAR:
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Every - anytime I had money. I would---

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Yeah.

KACHKAR:

--- go shopping or - or pay something. Pay for my ah, pay for something.

NIELSEN:

Okay. Now are we talking recent - recently?

KACHKAR:

Ah, recently it was hard. Ah recently I was working with a construction company and we were – I was - I was supervise the the um 333 ah the Bay - Adelaide Centre.

NIELSEN:

So you were gonna (sic) supervise?

KACHKAR:

Supervise the construction project at - for the – for that – for the downstairs.

NIELSEN:

The project?

KACHKAR:

Yeah.

NIELSEN:

And what’s ah - what are - are you trained to do that?

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

Yeah, supervise - well, in construction, I’m - with my architecture and the plans I can read drawings. I'm very good at reading drawings.

NIELSEN:

Were you actually working for a company?

KACHKAR:

M-hm.

NIELSEN:

What was the name of the company?

KACHKAR:

The company was um Renovate All and it’s, so I was helping him with other projects, but he wanted me to manage that project. So I was---

NIELSEN:

Who - who's he?

KACHKAR:

Um, Maroon - Marone ZATAR.

NIELSEN:

Marone ZATAR? So he was your boss? He hired you - when did he hire you?

KACHKAR:

I don't remember the date exactly it was in ah May or something. So it was on and off.

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Of last year?

KACHKAR:

Yeah.

NIELSEN:

And he hired you to be a supervisor at a construction site?

KACHKAR:

No he hired me first just to come on and we were building a house and doing things though.

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

So, he eventually – um and you know he's got that leave – ah the new contract.

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

So he wanted me to be supervisor and be there and ah do those things. I am good at that. I am good at that because---

NIELSEN:

You are good at?

KACHKAR:

Making sure, like, the protocols with the security downstairs. No contractors - you don't leave doors open; I had no problem

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

telling contractors or whatever move their vans or – I’m kind of always out there.

NIELSEN:

So you're a good supervisor? A good site supervisor? Are you still working for him? When did you stop working for him?

KACHKAR:

Like I was working and then I called um - then he called me, he said oh job starting, but I had already started working with ah Ferrero Roche in the chocolate factory.

NIELSEN:

When was that?

KACHKAR:

May again; I don't know.

NIELSEN:

Of last year?

KACHKAR:

Yeah.

NIELSEN:

Of 2010?

KACHKAR:

Yeah.

NIELSEN:

So---

101 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

I started with him. I went in to work with him, and doing construction and doing that and cleaning up the houses, getting them ready, waiting – kind of supervisor labour work.

NIELSEN:

Okay.

KACHKAR:

I mean his house was finished and he thought that we – we would go to other projects too to fix, he would have these other homes to go to. He would also take me, we’d go fix them up and things like that. I’d use his van and so on - so then now this - this one came along and this to the building of a sushi restaurant – for Blow Fish Sushi Restaurant.

NIELSEN:

Right. Where’s that?

KACHKAR:

The one on King Street. I've never been to that one.

NIELSEN:

In Toronto?

KACHKAR:

In Toronto.

NIELSEN:

Okay.

102 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

So he now wanted me to supervise that project. So I had already started when I go into the building I always have to go downstairs with my ID you know for the ah security and so on. Any contractor who comes in had to come with me. Even in the beginning there the first contractor would come in and I say hold on here is different. So I was just – I’d just be myself. So that's what I'm saying and then - and then I really wa’- I want it and then I would come back for some meetings and so on that's when my in-laws were in town. So about when that happened then I came back and the agency called me again. The agency calls me almost every morning.

NIELSEN:

Okay and what agency is that?

KACHKAR:

I think um Universal Staffing or CNN Staffing.

NIELSEN:

Is that in Toronto?

KACHKAR:

In St. Catharines.

NIELSEN:

In St. Catharines?

KACHKAR:

Every day they’d call me even if for issues - they’d call me.

103 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

And - and is that because you’re a good ah - you're a good worker?

KACHKAR:

Yeah, I'm a good guy. I get out there, I do my thing and nobody - and nobody ever heard prob’- problems you know and they like me a lot. So ah you know when they call, if they have a nice job; I don't like to go out to those other chicken places, killing chickens and whatever. I don't do those things and certain jobs. So---

NIELSEN:

Just ah – this so the job that you were doing like a construction supervisor; why is it that you stopped working there?

KACHKAR:

Well, it - it was on hold because he was getting - they were getting their contractors together. They had to get some funding together, proof of funds to get their contracts together – to get their team together.

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

So I went back to St. Catharines ah for money. As soon as it's not working there because I’m staying at Stevie B’s. Steve Stephen's house.

104 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Right.

KACHKAR:

And as soon as this - this job is not right and so after work I’d come there and after and then - and then he says oh he’d call me he says, oh, I don't need you for this week. That's it, I go, I go home now. I come back to St. Catharines. So then I go to St. Catharines and try - I go to the wife’s for a few days you know hang out there until - until waiting that – so when I got there the next day - Universal Staffing - when I'm working at Universal when I'm working ---

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

She - I can - I can be there. You know I can stay there and just mind my business and come and go. That's what happens.

NIELSEN:

When you're working for Universal?

KACHKAR:

When I'm working; yeah, I have a pay cheque and I - I can come home.

NIELSEN:

And – and your wife doesn't mind it?

105 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

No. Because she's on a limited budget, I understand her too and even when she is, I don't take from her budget you know and if we eat - we eat a little sandwich or whatever. We’re not big spenders.

NIELSEN:

Right.

KACHKAR:

So when I came, I already had that job with um Ferrero Rocher and I was there and it was a good job it was like - it was good for me. It was a big, big factory and I was working on a line and everything. He said come back he says, I need you. I says well I need like a week.

NIELSEN:

Is that in Toronto Ferrero Rocher?

KACHKAR:

No, they’re in Brampton.

NIELSEN:

In Brampton?

KACHKAR:

But that's through an agency in St. Catharines.

NIELSEN:

Okay.

106 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

So that's how much I work I go I get it through an agency and go there and they would pay $15 dollars to take you out there in the van - and they’d pick you up and then they bring you home.

NIELSEN:

From where - where were you living when you were working in Brampton?

KACHKAR:

I think I was staying in my building. I have a shop in Geneva Street in St. Catharines. I have a little shop there that I stay---

NIELSEN:

Okay.

KACHKAR:

---when it's warm. Because I was trying to winterize it---

NIELSEN:

Okay.

KACHKAR:

---because I’m waiting for my GST back and everything.

NIELSEN:

Is that 70 ½ Geneva? How long have you had that for?

KACHKAR:

Like 2005, I bought that.

NIELSEN:

You bought that?

107 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

Yeah when the wife moves there I bought that and I was living there.

NIELSEN:

How much did you pay for that?

KACHKAR:

$29,000 dollars.

NIELSEN:

29,000 eh?

KACHKAR:

I didn't even know that building; ah because I didn't even know when I found it and I went. It's a small building. I needed a place for me. So there was---

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

---a little shop there and the guy had a good little day room in there. But I did some renovations; I took everything out and then I tried to stay there. I had my couches and everything and I changed it again.

NIELSEN:

So you were living there---

KACHKAR:

Yeah.

108 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

---part of the time?

KACHKAR:

Yeah. I put a new door up and things. It's a dangerous area there though. So I'm not dangerous; but it's a weird area.

NIELSEN:

Weird – weird and dangerous how? What do you mean?

KACHKAR:

Um like those guys at night time. Those crack heads and things on - by the Salvation Army. It's Queen – are you familiar with St. Catharines?

NIELSEN:

I've been there a couple of times. Yeah.

KACHKAR:

Yeah, there’s some weirdos (sic) out there walking around.

NIELSEN:

Okay. So that - that's the kind of danger you’re talking about?

KACHKAR:

Yeah, like my neighbours even the neighbours there or I bring---

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

---I brought couches and things like to move in and I went to Toronto and I came back and everything is gone and my

109 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

neighbour says well those guys took it. So from day one, I had problems again. Well, probably.

NIELSEN:

Richard, you - you said that ah your wife didn't mind you staying um on Welland Avenue when you were working. Were you working all the time or were there times were you wouldn't be working?

KACHKAR:

Um no, mostly I was working or going to training. I did ah – I was working with Krispy Kreme Donuts driving there and do doing deliveries.

NIELSEN:

Where is that?

KACHKAR:

They’re in Mississauga on Mavis. Mavis and um a big area there; Heartland.

NIELSEN:

Okay.

KACHKAR:

That area there.

NIELSEN:

When did you do that?

110 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

It was in 2007. So I was driving the trucks and I - so I would leave here at 5 - I would leave here like 4 in the morning, catch the first bus to - to Toronto and then get - get back on the Go train and go back to Mississauga and then catch the bus and go to work get my truck and go do my deliveries out in Oakville and then out back to Brampton, back to Whitby, Ajax. Basically finish at about 9 or 10 and then come back and go back and get back downtown and go back home. Because I had nowhere to stay in Toronto.

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

It was just like---

NIELSEN:

How long did you work for Krispy Kreme for?

KACHKAR:

For over a year.

NIELSEN:

For over a year?

KACHKAR:

Over a year. I was just delivering to their Sobey’s stores going there, picking them up, delivering them. They lost the contract so I was on unemployment.

111 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

You were on unemployment?

KACHKAR:

After that. So unemployment; I went to the I was at this um - I followed a program---

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

---and you could upgrade your skills and everything so I took heavy equipment - heavy equipment operator and truck driver training.

NIELSEN:

Where did you take that?

KACHKAR:

At um - in St. Catharines at um – a Truck - Canada Transport Ca’- Transport Canada Training.

NIELSEN:

In St. Catharines?

KACHKAR:

In St. Catharines.

NIELSEN:

Okay. When did you take that?

112 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

It was maybe 2008. But you do … I’m I'm not sure of the dates. All the dates - like really they’re different. I mix up days a lot. But it was after that.

NIELSEN:

It was after that?

KACHKAR:

After the Krispy Kreme. I went and did a – like there’s a way you take your … you go and you do your resume then you get upgraded and then they take your um - they take your um - not everybody gets it … a lot of people want to do things.

NIELSEN:

How did you get it though?

KACHKAR:

Just by being – ah being um qualified to – to do that; to do the heavy equipment and the truck driving so.

NIELSEN:

But had you had training or experience in that before?

KACHKAR:

Ah, I operated equipment; heavy equipment like that.

NIELSEN:

When you say qualified, what do you mean?

KACHKAR:

Like I'm technically able to do that---

113 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Okay.

KACHKAR:

---to drive those things and stuff like.

NIELSEN:

Based on your experience and education?

KACHKAR:

Yeah, I think so and - and it was something, it was definitely something new.

NIELSEN:

Alright.

KACHKAR:

So to hop in a - in an excavator.

NIELSEN:

Right.

KACHKAR:

First you know to - they teach you what this is and that it is and then you just get in it and there's a big area and then you just start going; and then you just start learning the scoop and you start learning all the techniques and what it is and how to put the foot and all the ah landing gear down and so I became like an expert in ah heavy equipment. Bulldozer and backhoe, ah an excavator and um grater.

NIELSEN:
114 of 259

It’s a lot of heavy machines.

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

I operated all those. I did all my times, the morning until night I was there, to do three shifts.

NIELSEN:

Now how long did you go to school for that for?

KACHKAR:

That I went for just a few months. A few months and then after that was finished, I went back to class for my ah AV.

NIELSEN:

Right.

KACHKAR:

So, I ah got in the - the truck. The big 18 wheeler.

NIELSEN:

Right. What happened?

KACHKAR:

I started to use that thing too. First to start to get it going.

NIELSEN:

Yeah.

KACHKAR:

Get gears and get going and---

NIELSEN:

Were you good at it? Yeah. What, did you get a certification?

115 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

So then I did - and I started to hook up the trailer, back up the trailer and I jumped in the trailer, drive around. I used to drive around all the Niagara region you know. Keep it on the road Ritchie, stay on the road because sometimes - it's a technique for a 53 foot truck.

NIELSEN:

I imagine it would be.

KACHKAR:

Yeah. It's hard to keep – and plus in Niagara---

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

---the roads the way they are it's bumpy rough roads. So I - I think I did well with that and then at that time there was ah that strike. I went to go - to get my license. I have my licenses for heavy equipment.

NIELSEN:

Right.

KACHKAR:

But to do you get your license for your AV, you have to go to um the Ministry there and you have to drive out to Brantford or somewhere because they were closed on strike; and ah I got – I did my ah – I got my air brake the Z and everything and I went for a ride with a guy---

116 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

--- it seemed okay. But I was nervous or whatever, I was grinding too many gears and I was grinding some gears and then I was at the intersection I let some lady go and I – I’m in the intersection.

NIELSEN:

Right.

KACHKAR:

So, I said let her go and he said you’re not supposed to do that or something - you know and then backing up - backing up and I - I was okay but I don't know the guy - one of my trainers told me not to look out the window or whatever and so I - I didn't pass that test.

NIELSEN:

Okay. So you didn't get your AZ?

KACHKAR:

I didn't, I got my Z but not the AZ.

NIELSEN:

And you didn’t get ah the A part?

117 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

Yeah and so I called the school and everything and they said well they couldn't really do much. So now here I spent all that time and I spent $18,000 dollars grant.

NIELSEN:

Where did you get the grant from?

KACHKAR:

That’s from the government they give that.

NIELSEN:

To take that course? Okay.

KACHKAR:

$18,000 dollars.

NIELSEN:

$18,000 dollars worth?

KACHKAR:

Yeah.

NIELSEN:

So at the end of it all did you - did you graduate? Did you graduate?

KACHKAR:

I graduated and they said oh there’s a work placement and everything and that started to become all kind of fake too. There's no work placement.

NIELSEN:
118 of 259

So you never got a job?

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

No. I was---

NIELSEN:

In that – in that line of work?

KACHKAR:

There’s no bulldozer, no heavy equipment going on or whatever. So I have all those certificates so here I am and---

NIELSEN:

Have you worked with heavy equipment after getting that certificate? Never eh? Listen I sort of would like to take you back again to um - we've talked about a lot of stuff. But you were talking about when the last time is that you saw your wife is New Year’s – New Year’s you think it was?

KACHKAR:

I don't think I was well. Something was wrong with me.

NIELSEN:

What do you think was wrong with you?

KACHKAR:

Well, I was just walking around and well I have no family and - I just don't have and I didn’t – I felt bad.

VRUNA:

I'm sorry, I can't hear you.

119 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

I just felt bad like. Like I just felt bad walking around and I didn't have family and so I was staying in - that shelter in St. Catharines.

NIELSEN:

Which shelter is that?

KACHKAR:

A shelter in Southridge.

NIELSEN:

Southridge?

KACHKAR:

Yeah.

NIELSEN:

How long had you been saying there?

KACHKAR:

Like a week or so. I was staying there and everything was fine there, but I didn't like it either. It was weird. People at night getting up and going in and out and---

NIELSEN:

Where you staying before you went to the shelter?

KACHKAR:

At home.

NIELSEN:

What shelter was that?

120 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

In - on Welland Avenue.

NIELSEN:

On Welland?

KACHKAR:

Yeah.

NIELSEN:

With ah Maro and – and the children?

KACHKAR:

Yeah. Yeah. But I – know like – that I knew that morning I’m gonna (sic) go, I have to go you know. I knew that I wanted to go. Because I could feel - somehow they like it just to give me the boot.

NIELSEN:

What do you mean – whose they?

KACHKAR:

My wife and the kids and my son. Like my son won't come out; if I'm at home, he doesn't come out and eat.

NIELSEN:

Why is that? Ah, do you have a problem with your son?

KACHKAR:

No. Um I went - he was sick last year or last Christmas whatever and he got very sick and I was there for him. I helped him out and everything and then he just - he just has his own private - private things. He goes out he does his things.

121 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

So up to um - before you went to the shelter you were staying at home with your wife and children?

KACHKAR:

Ye’- well, yeah but it was a - it was ah like that one of those um … I'm really not supposed to be there at that time you know that's - sometimes they don't want me there even in the morning to go walk the dogs or whatever.

NIELSEN:

Now when you say stay there like you - you're sleeping there?

KACHKAR:

I’d stay on the couch in the basement. Yeah.

NIELSEN:

So you're not sleeping with---

KACHKAR:

No.

NIELSEN:

---with Maro - and how---

KACHKAR:

I sleep alone.

NIELSEN:

---and how long had you been staying there?

KACHKAR:
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Like off and on all these times.

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Off and on? Now when you say often on and you go to stay there, how long would you stay for?

KACHKAR:

Three, four days.

NIELSEN:

Okay and then why would you leave?

KACHKAR:

Because even when I get there, it's like “you're not staying long are you?” It's like..

NIELSEN:

Who’s saying that?

KACHKAR:

Like the wife and my kids – “why is he here?”

NIELSEN:

So both your kids and your wife don't want you there? You wanna (sic) be there because they're your family right?

KACHKAR:

I do. Yeah.

NIELSEN:

Is that the reason you go back? But you're saying - did they actually tell you they don't want you there? How does it make you feel? It's got to be pretty tough.

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

Yeah. Well, I'm sure it happens to people so I just walk out.

NIELSEN:

Yeah, people have their problems is that ah – and how long has that been going on for like that?

KACHKAR:

I think for a long time she's been doing that to me since I met her.

NIELSEN:

and you keep going back?

KACHKAR:

It's not that I'm going back, like I’m just you know it’s like you go to a job and you have somebody there that's always doing that and right you go there.

NIELSEN:

Right.

KACHKAR:

I have my job. I take care of my kids’ right?

NIELSEN:

Now when you go back, are you being asked to come back or are you going back unannounced?

KACHKAR:

No, I go like - I go – I go back quietly again. Just sort of go back again and like---

124 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Is it kind of the same thing every time? You stay for a few days and then they ask you to leave? How do they ask you to leave? What do they say?

KACHKAR:

Just like even at night time, we’re there, we're sitting; my wife’s there, we’re sitting, we’re having tea and my daughter would just like tell me to F off and just like for no reason.

NIELSEN:

No reason, just tells you to F off?

KACHKAR:

I look at the wife and the wife is like smiling and ah – you guys are strange and I go start putting – I go start putting on my coat and I'm gone.

NIELSEN:

Why would they say that to you? Had you - had you said something to your daughter or your wife that - that would cause them to say something like that? No. So they told you and they asked you to leave?

KACHKAR:

Lots of times.

NIELSEN:

And where do you go when you - when you leave?

125 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

I just go walk. I walk all the way. I’d walk to St. Catharines. I walk downtown St. Catharines. I walk all those places. That's how I meet all these people; street people.

NIELSEN:

And when they - when they ask you to leave how do you feel?

KACHKAR:

I don't know. I'm just like - I just feel ah I don't know. Like you go to a job and you get fired and you – you know?

NIELSEN:

It can't - it can’t make you feel very good.

KACHKAR:

No, I don't feel good, but again – again like I don't really take it to heart really. I do - I get upset and everything and I just – I just go walk it off.

NIELSEN:

Okay.

KACHKAR:

Go downtown and I talk to people or whatever. It's just---

NIELSEN:

So when you leave, where - where would you stay at?

KACHKAR:

I just go to my shop – my building.

NIELSEN:
126 of 259

To your shop? On Geneva.

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

Geneva. Yeah. I put the heat on – yeah, I put the heat on there, stay there. The next thing you know people are coming there bringing me stuff from the Salvation Army; food and---

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

It’s the weirdest thing.

NIELSEN:

Tell me about the last time that you – you saw your wife on New Year’s?

KACHKAR:

There was like – when - they didn't even want to see me. I just turned around.

NIELSEN:

Who did you speak to when you went there?

KACHKAR:

I think my wife was there, my son was inside and Ashley was inside.

NIELSEN:

Okay and what was said?

KACHKAR:

You can't come - you can’t come here, you can't stay here.

127 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

And who told you that?

KACHKAR:

I think Mar’- Maro did. Maro.

VRUNA:

Pardon me? I’m sorry?

KACHKAR:

Maro, the wife.

VRUNA:

Maro?

KACHKAR:

M-hm.

NIESLEN:

So Maro told you – you can’t stay here. And did you say anything to her?

KACHKAR:

No.

NIELSEN:

And what happened after that? What did you do?

KACHKAR:

I just turned around and I started walking back to um - takes like an hour to walk. I had my sweater and my coat. That's what I remember it was cold out, but I had no gloves on, I had no hat, but I wasn’t feeling cold.

128 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Alright.

KACHKAR:

I just walked back and then I walked back and – and um I just walked back and went to the bus station.

NIELSEN:

Okay.

KACHKAR:

I bought a ticket. Was a ticket, the next ticket to Toronto, 7, 8 o'clock. I came back.

NIELSEN:

Did you get on the bus? Were you by yourself? So what happened after you got on the bus?

KACHKAR:

I just arrived to Toronto, got off the bus, I walked downtown. You know Toronto of course?

NIELSEN:

Yeah.

KACHKAR:

I walked down Dundas Street just I walked all the way to my ah - I didn't even have any clothes with me.

NIELSEN:

Did you have um - a suitcase or anything like that? What did you have with you?

129 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

Nothing - just my coat, my shoes.

NIELSEN:

Just what you were wearing?

KACHKAR:

Yeah.

NIELSEN:

Did you have money on you?

KACHKAR:

No.

NIELSEN:

You had no money? How much did it cost you for the bus ticket?

KACHKAR:

Like $22 dollars I had. Because I saved when I was staying originally at this house which they were giving us two dollars a day or something. I was saving that.

NIELSEN:

That’s the only money you had? Just what you got from the shelter? Did you have any money in the bank? Do you have any credit cards? Um are you under any financial, do you have financial problems?

KACHKAR:

Not really. No. No.

130 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

No. You just don't have any money in the bank?

KACHKAR:

No money, no.

NIELSEN:

Okay.

KACHKAR:

I have a – I had a jeep and it was stolen. I was parking it across the thing and one day I come and it’s gone. That’s normal all my stuff was stolen; couches, everything I have.

NIELSEN:

Yeah.

KACHKAR:

So – so – so sometimes they even give me insurance if I go out to buy a couch and they say oh and do you need insurance I say, no, no, I don’t need it and … we - and we’ll give it to you. So, I would call the police. I called the police a lot over there. It's better now, way better now.

NIELSEN:

On Geneva Street?

KACHKAR:

Before you couldn't leave your bike out there one second. People would jump on it. It’s weird.

131 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Ah, just to go back to your ah – so you - you got a ticket to Toronto. Why would you – why would you do that? Why did you get a ticket to Toronto?

KACHKAR:

Just I wanted – I said – I said you know that’s it I’m gonna (sic) go to Toronto and start working ah in Toronto.

NIELSEN:

Okay.

KACHKAR:

Because if I work in St. Catharines, I need my wife's support to go there you know to have some lunch and have something I’m cooking. It's not that I can't, but when I'm alone I get depressed or whatever. I've been alone before. I used to live there on Vine Street.

NIELSEN:

Yeah.

KACHKAR:

I used to live by myself.

NIELSEN:

Vine Street in St. Catharines?

KACHKAR:

Yeah. I had to do that when she moved – new - and went from – we moved from the apartment she went to a house. I needed to go out get my own house too so I got a - a little apartment there;

132 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

and all those guys downstairs all the crack heads or whatever making noise and everything. But the guy told me upstairs don’t bring problems.

NIELSEN:

Did you get depressed?

KACHKAR:

I get very depressed by myself and - and sitting there and---

NIELSEN:

Now when you say depressed?

KACHKAR:

I don't want to eat, I don't want to go anywhere. I just – and I - I don't want to hear anything and I just don't.

NIELSEN:

Have you seen a - a doctor for depression? Have – have you ever um---

KACHKAR:

No.

NIELSEN:

---so you were getting sad -- is that what you’re saying?

KACHKAR:

It’s not sad it's just like you lose all your – anything. You just lose everything. You don’t care about things. Like if I – if I was ah walking across the street and it’s a red light and I’m walking

133 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

and the cars are gonna (sic )come and hit me and I’m just walking.

NIELSEN:

And that’s because of how you’re feeling?

KACHKAR:

Yeah.

NIELSEN:

like you don’t care?

KACHKAR:

I don’t care.

NIELSEN:

Is that what it is? Is that a good way of saying it?

KACHKAR:

M-hm.

NIELSEN:

And so you’ve never seen a doctor about that?

KACHKAR:

I went – I went like in Toronto, I went and even that day I went to the hospital. I wanted to see somebody … she says oh you have to wait and see. It was one of those things that was never gonna (sic ) happen.

NIELSEN:

Which day is that – that you went?

134 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

I don’t recall. It was like the same day that I went to the shelter. I went there and then I went back to the shelter. So she said oh you wait, so you wait and I said I’m gonna (sic) fall down I’m not feeling good. I really feel bad. I never felt that bad in my life -- I don’t know why, but it was happening to me.

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

And ah when I was staying there, there was other people saying oh my mom’s got –they’re yelling at me my mom’s got cancer she has to wait or whatever and I remember somebody fell out of their chair or something.

NIELSEN:

And this is in the hospital?

KACHKAR:

In the waiting room. Yeah.

NIELSEN:

But do you remember which hospital that was?

KACHKAR:

I think it was St. Beadman or something. I don’t remember; I just came through the side.

NIELSEN:

This is after you came to Toronto?

135 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

Because when I went to Stevie’s house---

NIELSEN:

Right.

KACHKAR:

---he’s weird. Stevie’s weird - drinks too much, talks too much. I have no idea what he’s talking about. They have inside jokes right?

NIELSEN:

Okay.

KACHKAR:

Their own thing - I don't get involved in that. You know at – at night time when I’m trying to sleep, they’re still playing cards and he drinks and so---

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

---I even sit in the hallway and there’s so many times I’m telling him I got to go I can’t stay here. He holds me back. He thinks he can hold me back.

NIELSEN:

He doesn’t want you to leave?

KACHKAR:

Yeah. I told him, I says don’t do that one time, two times; don’t do that.

136 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Okay.

KACHKAR:

Never do that I’m gonna (sic ) lie down if you make noise, I’m gonna again try it again - and that’s it. I’d push him to the side, I move out.

NIELSEN:

So tell me about – so you get on a bus to Toronto and um what happens when you get to Toronto? You don’t have anything you don’t have any money, you have just the clothes that you’re wearing? What do you do?

KACHKAR:

I just get to um – to ah – I go to Stevie B’s house.

NIELSEN:

So you went to S’– you went to Steve B’s house. And uh was that at night or was it day time when you got there?

KACHKAR:

Night time.

NIELSEN:

Night time? So you actually got to his house at night time did you go into his house? Okay. Do you remember what time you got there? Steve B’s house?

KACHKAR:
137 of 259

In the evening or something.

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Evening?

KACHKAR:

7, 8. He was surprised to see me, but that’s how I am.

NIELSEN:

Okay. But he let you come in?

KACHKAR:

M-hm.

NIELSEN:

And tell me what happened. Why did (Inaudible) how long did you stay with Steve B?

KACHKAR:

To that I don’t – I remember I went to the shelter.

NIELSEN:

You went – you stayed until you went to the shelter?

KACHKAR:

No, I went that night. I didn’t sleep but the next day I says, I – the next day I said I better go to the shelter. I walked all over Toronto and then I went to the shelter.

NIELSEN:

So you walked all over Toronto? And ah which shelter did you go to?

KACHKAR:
138 of 259

Ah one on um Dundas – on Dundas and Parliament.

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

VRUNA:

I’m – I’m sorry Richard?

KACHKAR:

I don’t know the name of it.

VRUNA:

You’re covering your face so I can’t hear you.

KACHKAR:

Sorry, I don’t know the name of it.

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

Was the name of Good Shepherd; I think.

NIELSEN:

Okay. So had you ever been there before?

KACHKAR:

So, I lined up and then we went and had lunch and saw a few guys oh Richie, Richie. I know a few guys from there.

NIELSEN:

Richie?

KACHKAR:

They call me that.

NIELSEN:

That - is that what they call you?

139 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

So we had our spaghetti. It was nice because I wish I had known earlier. I wish I had known earlier about that place.

NIELSEN:

Now you said something about um you went to the hospital. Did you go to the hospital before you went to the shelter?

KACHKAR:

I thought I had to go to the hospital because I wasn’t feeling good. Like now I’m not feeling good.

NIELSEN:

Okay. How are you feeling right now?

KACHKAR:

I’m feeling bad. I’m feeling the same way like that. Confused I don’t know why? Time when I went or why and I’m just – I’m just confused.

NIELSEN:

You feel confused right now?

KACHKAR:

Yeah and the – the – my - I'm not supposed to even be talking he says I'm not supposed to talk. I'm supposed to wait for a lawyer.

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

140 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

But you're asking me questions just pertaining to you know these facts so.

NIELSEN:

You - you know if you want to answer you can, if you don't that’s up to you, it’s your choice.

KACHKAR:

Yeah. Up to this point, after this point I think – I think it was right what you asked because it’s – about that guy you know. Anyways, I’m gonna (sic ) be honest there’s no um – and there’s no other way. But up to this point, I don’t know somebody – did somebody put pills in my drink or what happened like that. That’s where I’m at right now.

NIELSEN:

Okay.

KACHKAR:

And – and it’s very unusual for me and - and it seems that way. It seems that way for me.

NIELSEN:

Somebody put some pills in your drink?

KACHKAR:

I wasn't sure what happened, but I wasn't normal. Because if I was normal and you met me---

NIELSEN:
141 of 259

M-hm.

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

--- you would see I'm a different person. I’m different - I go to work. I come to work, you see me having my break. But now I feel different. Something happened to me. So after this - after that---

NIELSEN:

So today you feel different than when?

KACHKAR:

Well, I - no I’ve been feeling bad; the same way I've been feeling bad. I went to the doctor’s on that day.

NIELSEN:

The day you went to the shelter?

KACHKAR:

The day I went to the shelter---

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

---I said where’s the clinic – where’s the clinic? I have to speak to somebody really somebody like.

NIELSEN:

Who did you ask that to?

KACHKAR:

To the - there's a community centre that they aro’- around around Regent Park. That one on um---

142 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

The Regent Park Community Centre?

KACHKAR:

Yeah, the centre there.

NIELSEN:

You spoke to somebody there?

KACHKAR:

Yeah, I spoke to a lady and she says oh you have to go to the doctor's office. I went around the corner went there was a girl there, she her - she her veil on.

NIELSEN:

A veil?

KACHKAR:

Yeah.

NIELSEN:

And - and what kind of - what do you mean by that?

KACHKAR:

Just a veil like and she was in a---

VRUNA:

(UI:01)? A hajib?

KACHKAR:

---yeah. But in the doctor's office. Like I need to see a doctor please I'm not feeling good. I'm not feeling - is very important

143 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

and um I was just losing everything, I don't know what it was. I felt something was wrong with me.

NIELSEN:

So when you say you weren't feeling well was it - did you feel, was it because you were depressed or something else?

KACHKAR:

I felt so empty and dreamed and I didn't know where I was going, what I’m doing. Like how I'm here even. That's continuing now so after that and then all those events. I don't don’t know and even how I get here and now I’m in prison? Do you think I ever dream of that?

NIELSEN:

Okay.

KACHKAR:

And---

NIELSEN:

Had you seen a doctor that day?

KACHKAR:

No. He came, he looked he said oh you seem okay. I said okay.

NIELSEN:

So the doctor did look at you? Now this – this - is it a hospital or is it a clinic?

KACHKAR:
144 of 259

I think it's a clinic.

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Near the community centre? Now how far away from the – the shelter is this community centre?

KACHKAR:

Like the shelter is there and you know Parliament goes this way; I think. I just came on Parliament and it’s in the back there and on - on ah Parliament or maybe Gerrard Street.

NIELSEN:

That’s where the clinic is?

KACHKAR:

I - Detective I'm not kidding. I'm so disoriented, I don't remember all those things, those things, where I went, which corner. I couldn't recall it.

NIELSEN:

Okay. That's fair enough. I mean you don't---

KACHKAR:

I wouldn't---

NIELSEN:

---live in Toronto so it’s---

KACHKAR:

No, but I know the places. Like usually I’m there, usually if I’m there I get up early at 5 o'clock on days - on days that I'm working I'm up – I’m up at 5 boom, I’m gone. I get up, I get on the bus and go somewhere, I'm gone. I'm working.

145 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

It’s not normal for me. For me to walk around and do it's not normal.

NIELSEN:

So what you're - what you're feeling now had you felt this way before? How about in St. Catherine's? Like when you said that you were depressed?

KACHKAR:

You know I would go for a while and then I’d come back. The only thing that bothers me is even - even in the morning see.

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

We’re all at home a Sunday morning or whatever and I says all we’re gonna (sic) do is have a cup of coffee, take our dogs for a walk, enjoy our day.

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

just start with me early in the morning – “ you’re this, you’re nobody. I can’t walk with you. Don't even think you're coming

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

with me” stuff like that. You know I used to talk a lot. Now I just keep my mouth and it's whatever.

NIELSEN:

You used to?

KACHKAR:

I used to like say you know talk. I said, well, who do you think you are and blah, blah, blah.

NIELSEN:

You’re talking to your wife?

KACHKAR:

Yeah.

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

So, I told you that. I haven't done that in a long time.

NIELSEN:

When you have an argument with – with your wife, how do you – how does that make you feel?

KACHKAR:

I don't have arguments with her anymore.

NIELSEN:

No?

KACHKAR:
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A long time. No, there’s no arguments.

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Alright. So getting back to you see – you saw a doctor he took a quick look at you?

KACHKAR:

Yeah at Regent Park he looked and I says I'm not feeling good.

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

He goes well, you seem okay. But even my friends there that I know them from before---

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

---they come by and um I don't know, you know there's a - it's a different lifestyle. It was introduced to me because I - you know at that time I didn't have anybody, so people are nice to you know. You know maybe you know maybe that guy is a thief or whatever, he does this he does that they're all doing that. It's all lifestyle they have. I don't get involved in that. I don't and I would always discourage them to do that. Why are you doing that? Especially they come and ask for money I says no and I'm not giving you any money. I am different there. I mean if you know some people that know me there quite a few people know me there. I just go and you know?

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

And they’re friendly?

KACHKAR:

They’re friendly to me. You know nice people. I don't deal with them and I don't have any business with them; and I don't sm’smoke with anything and so.

NIELSEN:

So after you saw this doctor what did you do? Is that when you went to the shelter?

KACHKAR:

Yeah, I was hungry.

NIELSEN:

You were hungry?

KACHKAR:

I was hungry.

NIELSEN:

Were you hungry? Okay and so you - is that why you went to the shelter?

KACHKAR:

Well, no, I went to the shelter because yeah I thought I could go there and get um like signed up for um you know a program or something – a place to stay. So - because it's hard.

NIELSEN:
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M-hm.

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

I really came to the point where I know I'm really in bad shape. Because my wife can’t help me, I don't have any money.

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

So basically, I'm on the street like all these other people.

NIELSEN:

Okay.

KACHKAR:

So, I said it’s better just go through this.

NIELSEN:

Is that why you went there?

KACHKAR:

So, I went there and I started to feel okay. Had dinner, had everything and they says oh you come back at night in there and that.

NIELSEN:

So you had dinner during the daytime?

KACHKAR:

In the afternoon.

NIELSEN:

Okay.

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

VRUNA:

The evening is that what you said?

KACHKAR:

In the evening; yeah and there would be cookies, they would put cookies and everything. So I did that and then I don't know was it after that of before that? I don't recall. That's when I went to go see – see the doctor.

NIELSEN:

Alright.

KACHKAR:

Because the guys I know from there too they came and sat with me too. I know if you guys - he saw me he says - he goes, Bro, you're not looking good there’s something's wrong.

NIELSEN:

Who said that?

KACHKAR:

One guy I know from there from a while I don't remember his name. But he knows me.

NIELSEN:

Did – are you talking in the shelter?

KACHKAR:

In the shelter. Yeah.

NIELSEN:

Is it like a worker or is it just---

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

No.

NIELSEN:

---he was just standing there?

KACHKAR:

Just ah somebody that I know from the - from the park there, would come and go.

NIELSEN:

Okay. So you go there during the daytime---

KACHKAR:

M-hm.

NIELSEN:

---and you had something to eat; did you then leave?

KACHKAR:

I think I went to the - to the doctor's office.

NIELSEN:

Okay and what did you do after the doctor's office?

KACHKAR:

I walked around or whatever.

NIELSEN:

Did you talk to anybody?

KACHKAR:

No.

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Anything thing happen? Did you have any arguments with anybody; any problems? How were you feeling after you left the doctor's office?

KACHKAR:

The same. Worse.

NIELSEN:

Worse and how can you - can you describe worse?

KACHKAR:

Scared, like something is going on, something's happening to me. You know what was going on, something was gonna (sic) happen.

NIELSEN:

Something’s gonna (sic) happen?

KACHKAR:

Yeah.

NIELSEN:

Was this something - was this a physical feeling or … I'm just trying to understand how you were feeling.

KACHKAR:

No, in my mind it’s like something was happening and I think I was being surrounded by this environment. It just came - it just come, something happened. I don't know what happened?

NIELSEN:
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When you say this environment can you---

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

Everybody's out there waiting to eat, it's a normal lifestyle for them.

NIELSEN:

Okay, being on the street?

KACHKAR:

Being on the street.

NIELSEN:

And that – and that was making you feel?

KACHKAR:

It made me – it did something to me. It made me feel just distraught.

NIELSEN:

Because you’re on the street?

KACHKAR:

Yeah.

NIELSEN:

With no money?

KACHKAR:

Yeah.

NIELSEN:

M-hm. Alright. Did you ever go back to the shelter?

KACHKAR:
154 of 259

At night time.

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

You went back at night? Okay did you talk to anybody before you went in? Did you take any drugs before you went in? Were you drinking? So what happens when you go in? What did they do?

KACHKAR:

I don't know we ate or whatever.

NIELSEN:

Did you have to sign in or is there a form or something that you have to fill out?

KACHKAR:

See, I - you know what after that I can't recall now what happened? I don't remember now after that what happened?

NIELSEN:

Well, what do you remember about going into the shelter?

KACHKAR:

I don't remember.

NIELSEN:

You don't remember anything at all? Do you remember going to sleep? Nothing at all? Do you remember speaking to anybody inside there?

KACHKAR:

Remember people were speaking, saying things, whatever.

155 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

What were they saying?

KACHKAR:

I don't know. They were talking non … I never heard such nonsense. It was just nonsense or whatever and blah, blah, blah, talking. Yeah.

NIELSEN:

What does that mean blah blah blah?

KACHKAR:

I don't know.

NIELSEN:

What kind of nonsense?

KACHKAR:

I don't know. It's unusual for me to be somewhere where people are speaking and sleeping and talking like that.

NIELSEN:

How did you feel about being in that shelter?

KACHKAR:

Good.

NIELSEN:

Was it a good shelter? Was it clean?

KACHKAR:

Well it seemed okay.

NIELSEN:
156 of 259

Yeah?

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

The best shelter I've been in, besides that. Yeah.

NIELSEN:

You’ve been in the one in St. Catharines right?

KACHKAR:

Yeah, the one in St. Catharines.

NIELSEN:

How did it compare to the one in - in St. Catharines?

KACHKAR:

Massive, it was bigger.

NIELSEN:

Just bigger eh?

KACHKAR:

And I didn't like the one there---

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

---in St. Catharines. People getting up at night and kind of like walking around. Apparently there's a lot of drugs there. People getting kicked out for drugs.

NIELSEN:

This is the one in St. Catharines?

KACHKAR:
157 of 259

Yeah.

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

What about this one in – in Toronto?

KACHKAR:

This one, I didn't have the chance to know. I don't know.

NIELSEN:

No? Did they ah - what time did they make you go to sleep? Or is there a time?

KACHKAR:

I don't remember. I don't remember.

NIELSEN:

You don’t remember that at all? Okay. So do you remember ah going to the hospital?

KACHKAR:

When?

NIELSEN:

When you got injured. I know the doctors and the nurses were talking to you.

KACHKAR:

I really don't recall. All I remember is just like - I don't recall much.

NIELSEN:

What do you recall?

KACHKAR:
158 of 259

Just like looking in the ambulance. Sitting in the ambulance.

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Yeah?

KACHKAR:

I was just taking a couple of breathes and that's it; breathe, breathe and that was just it.

VRUNA:

Sorry, Richard.

KACHKAR:

I just said a couple - just take a couple of breaths and just keep breathing, keep breathing.

NIELSEN:

How did you feel?

KACHKAR:

I didn't feel anything.

NIELSEN:

Were you hurt?

KACHKAR:

I guess so.

NIELSEN:

What - what did you feel?

KACHKAR:

Not much; I didn't feel much.

NIELSEN:
159 of 259

You didn't feel much?

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

No. Just pain and hurting.

NIELSEN:

Where were you hurting?

KACHKAR:

I don't know. Like all over here and I don't really recall.

NIELSEN:

In your body? Your upper body. And that's when you were in the ambulance?

KACHKAR:

I don't remember how I got out. I don't remember, I don’t remember what happened and then I just was in the ambulance. My arm was broken or something twisted the other way.

NIELSEN:

Your arm was twisted? Which arm? You're looking at your left arm the one you've got in a sling?

KACHKAR:

Yes, sir.

NIELSEN:

You’ve got a bandage there.

KACHKAR:

All stitched and everything.

NIELSEN:
160 of 259

What happened to your arm?

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

I don't know. It was all broken, twisted off and just---

NIELSEN:

It was all broken? And that you remember that?

KACHKAR:

I don't … I just remember my arm was hurting, I looked over and it wasn't there, and my arm wasn't there.

NIELSEN:

In the ambulance?

KACHKAR:

Yeah.

NIELSEN:

And what else happened in the ambulance? Do you remember the ah paramedics talking to you?

KACHKAR:

I don't remember … they were just putting things on me and---

VRUNA:

Sorry, Richard you've already---

KACHKAR:

I don't remember much. I don't remember anything. Just the – just seeing the ambulance go I thought I was dying.

NIELSEN:

You thought you were dying? What kind of things were they putting on you?

161 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

I don't remember.

NIELSEN:

But you thought you were dying? Why did you think that?

KACHKAR:

The ambulance and I don't know.

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

I couldn't breathe. I saw some blood coming out. I was on the snow, I think they pulled me out.

NIELSEN:

You were on the snow?

KACHKAR:

I think so.

NIELSEN:

Okay.

KACHKAR:

I saw blood everywhere.

NIELSEN:

So when they pulled you out, do you remember who pulled you out?

KACHKAR:
162 of 259

ah---

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

What I'm gonna (sic) ask you is when – um do you remember how you got there? You don't remember anything about how you got there? So what's your - your earliest memory you had before you got in an ambulance?

KACHKAR:

I do not remember.

NIELSEN:

You don't remember; and when you get to the shelter, do you remember signing into the shelter at night?

KACHKAR:

Yeah. It's weird because I was sleeping on the - on the plastic, I was sleeping. I was so tired.

NIELSEN:

You were sleeping on the plastic?

KACHKAR:

On the steps there that go up into the shelter?

NIELSEN:

Right.

KACHKAR:

I was just sleeping there.

NIELSEN:

When was that?

163 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

At night

NIELSEN:

At night?

KACHKAR:

I think so.

NIELSEN:

Okay. So you were sleeping on the steps? Outside or inside?

KACHKAR:

Inside.

NIELSEN:

Inside. How long did you sleep there for?

KACHKAR:

I don't remember. I don't remember. Isn’t it better that I get a --I speak to my lawyer and they help me out and I go all over all these things with them and then they speak to you? Isn't it better to give you a - because these answers are all like s’- I don't know like.

NIELSEN:

Well we’re just --- I mean and that's up to you Richard; what we're trying to do is understand what's happened okay?

KACHKAR:

Yeah. You're asking about my family and everything.

NIELSEN:
164 of 259

M-hm.

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

The lawyers clearly told me don't have to, you shouldn’t say anything if you don't have a lawyer. I mean maybe I shouldn't have.

NIELSEN:

That’s your choice.

KACHKAR:

No but it –it – it I'm just saying, there's got to be some - there's got to be something happened here right?

NIELSEN:

Well?

KACHKAR:

Something happened. I was involved.

NIELSEN:

We’re - we’re trying to understand what happened.

KACHKAR:

So.

NIELSEN:

That’s why were talking to you?

KACHKAR:

Yeah. So---

NIELSEN:

Yeah.

165 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

--- since I haven't – haven’t had a chance to talk to anybody and understand or what happened and everything like that; it's probably better I wait and call - call them – um that lawyer and then - and that way we can talk. You know I've answered you guys a lot of questions about my past and what I do and the family and everything like that. Even if my lawyer asked me not to say that or what – see, I don't know - I've never worked with a lawyer.

VRUNA:

M-hm.

NIELSEN:

Right.

KACHKAR:

So.

NIELSEN:

You’ve never had a lawyer before?

KACHKAR:

No. Why? Usually when I have to do something, I do it and a lawyer just snaps or whatever? I don't know. What do you need a lawyer for? There's a code book, everything’s booked, everything is a lie, everything has a sub-thing, it’s all - you do it. But I've never been involved like this. So at this point; I need to tell you those things.

166 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Okay.

KACHKAR:

Yes.

VRUNA:

Could I just ask a couple of questions to clarify something? Like with the stuff that you've already told us?

KACHKAR:

Sure.

VRUNA:

Okay. When was the last time you stayed at your Geneva address?

KACHKAR:

I don't know exactly.

VRUNA:

You don't know? Was it like - how about like - let's break it down.

KACHKAR:

Just before I came here.

VRUNA:

Just before? So---

KACHKAR:

I'm always there - everyday I go there.

VRUNA:
167 of 259

Everyday?

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

That’s where I spend my days there.

VRUNA:

Yeah?

KACHKAR:

I get my heater going and I stay there.

VRUNA:

Yeah and what kind of things do you do there?

KACHKAR:

Just sit, read, write my notes.

VRUNA:

What kind of notes do you write?

KACHKAR:

Like business things, what I want to do. I want to open a pizza place. Ah, I got to fix, what I got to fix; the doors, the roof---

VRUNA:

M-hm and -- and where do you get the money to pay for all that for?

KACHKAR:

Well, there’s some grants available. Rehab um res’- residential rehab programs are gonna (sic) gonna (sic) have money available for that.

VRUNA:
168 of 259

M-hm.

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

Or I was gonna (sic) work, do some jobs again and work---

VRUNA:

Okay. Um so---

KACHKAR:

… pay me …

VRUNA:

---you’re saying so you remember going to see your wife right and had you – you were - but you all of a sudden went to stay at the shelter at which? Southridge right? Now was that because you couldn't stay and I'm trying to - and we’re trying to figure out why you went to stay at the shelter.

KACHKAR:

Oh, that already needed to happen because me, I like to have aroutine.

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

Get up early, have my breakfast, do my job, go get my work and go---

VRUNA:

Okay.

KACHKAR:
169 of 259

---because that's it and---

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

VRUNA:

And you couldn't do that at Geneva?

KACHKAR:

You can’t - I can't do that at home or anything because she's like retired, she lives her life.

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

Like she’s retired, like she has her dogs and everything like that--

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

it's good for her.

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

But not good for me.

VRUNA:

Okay what about at the Geneva address? Do you have like a fridge and stove to be able to do that there or a bed?

KACHKAR:

I used to. I used to.

170 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

But I cleared it out now so I can work. So I can um I wanted to insulate it.

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

---and use it. I have my microwave and everything, my heat I turned all that off because I was gonna (sic) insulate it this year and I do it. I have a little stove and stay there.

VRUNA:

Okay. Alright so I - I understand. I was trying to understand what came - how you came about doing that.

KACHKAR:

Even at home when they tell me to leave, I would go to Geneva. I have a chair there or whatever, I have a blanket.

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

Then I stay there for a few hours.

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:
171 of 259

Ride my bike.

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

Even in the winter.

VRUNA:

Where is your bike now?

KACHKAR:

Probably in the store.

VRUNA:

At the store? Did you have your bike that day when you went to see your wife. You said that you walked – you walked?

KACHKAR:

No. No, I just walked. I didn’t ride my bike.

VRUNA:

Yeah. Okay. Um you were telling us that ah the agency, this employment agency that ah you ah um called – you call every day right; where would you call from or they call you?

KACHKAR:

No, they called - they called my wife’s house.

VRUNA:

Your---

KACHKAR:

they called my wife's number.

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

VRUNA:

Okay, and how does she get a hold of you?

KACHKAR:

I usually check in right? I'm usually there, come in or ph’– phone her from – from my job search.

VRUNA:

Okay.

KACHKAR:

I’m either at my job search.

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

I’m at my shop.

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

Or I’m working.

VRUNA:

Is there a phone at your shop?

KACHKAR:

No.

VRUNA:

Do you have a cell phone? Or did you have a cell phone?

KACHKAR:
173 of 259

Ah, I had one. But, I don't usually ah - it's not usually on---

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

VRUNA:

Okay.

KACHKAR:

---unless I'm starting my work every day.

VRUNA:

Oh, okay. What number is that and do you - do you remember the number for it?

KACHKAR:

Um, not really. It's a little black one I had in one of my bags where I left them; I don't know.

VRUNA:

Okay and where is your bag now? What kind of phone is it? Like is it with a dealer?

KACHKAR:

No, it’s a pay and talk. I think Virgin, it's a black one, I opened it---

VRUNA:

Yeah.

KACHKAR:

it’s a 647. I don't hook it up much. I don’t. Because a lot of people say get a phone, get a phone. Why do I need - I don't really need a phone.

VRUNA:
174 of 259

Yeah. Is that phone under your name or under your?

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

Um, I think it's my daughter's phone because she got a new one.

VRUNA:

Okay. So your daughter gave you her phone? Okay.

KACHKAR:

Its’s like a pay month to month.

VRUNA:

M-hm and how much do you pay for it?

KACHKAR:

If I put $15 dollars, it will last me a long time.

VRUNA:

M-hm. Okay. So these companies you work at and do they usually pay you cash money or do you make---

KACHKAR:

No, they pay me every week.

VRUNA:

And how do they pay you?

KACHKAR:

Just with a cheque.

VRUNA:

And you have a bank that you deal with?

KACHKAR:

Yeah. CIBC, I cash it.

175 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

VRUNA:

In St.?

KACHKAR:

In St. Catharines?

VRUNA:

In St. Catharines. Okay. So when was the last time you got a cheque?

KACHKAR:

The last time I got paid? October.

VRUNA:

October?

KACHKAR:

M-hm.

VRUNA:

Was the last time that you had got money?

KACHKAR:

October or September.

VRUNA:

Were you were you actually got a pay cheque and?

KACHKAR:

Yeah so I was working at Ferrero Rocher factory; I remember that. Because I was called back to this construction company and he said come back. If you don't come back tomorrow, don't come back. So I really wanted to come back but I had a job there, so---

176 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

---I was staying there.

VRUNA:

Okay.

KACHKAR:

But then that job too. They put me on a shift and they’re telling me this and that, I said no, please. No, thank you and I just … and that’s it, and then the next day they said we don't need you back.

VRUNA:

Okay and ah so what did you - who - where did you get money in –from October ‘til now? How were you surviving? Like it's difficult right and winter is coming and---

KACHKAR:

I know, I - I don't like I do work here and I don’t know, I just have some money.

VRUNA:

Like are you getting social services giving you money? Do you qualify for like a family allowance pay or?

KACHKAR:

I don't know. I already tried.

177 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

VRUNA:

Well, make sure you call.

KACHKAR:

I do qualify. Because I went to the shelter they would (sic) sign me up on that.

VRUNA:

M-hm. But you never actually physically got a monthly cheque from them?

KACHKAR:

No. No and I didn't need much money because like I said you know if I had stayed with the wife, I would have a little breakfast and then I'm gone all day.

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

And then I - I have the real food I buy from ah Giant Tiger or whatever? Sardines or whatever and eat them.

VRUNA:

But you need money from somewhere. So is it money that you ah saved or you had in the bank or?

KACHKAR:

I didn't have money.

VRUNA:

Do you have any? You said you have a CIBC account, do you have any money in that account? Nothing eh? What about um

178 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

your identification now like your - do you ever carry a wallet or a---

KACHKAR:

I usually just carry my license, my health care and my bank card and whatever and SIN number.

VRUNA:

And where - where is that identification?

KACHKAR:

Probably in the hospital or whatever cuz (sic) they were in my pants right?

VRUNA:

M-hm.

NIELSEN:

I don’t know.

KACHKAR:

I don't know either.

VRUNA:

Yeah.

KACHKAR:

That’s why I'm saying?

VRUNA:

Okay. Okay. Alright. Um, have you stayed at the Good Shepherd house before?

179 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

No.

VRUNA:

Had you stayed in any shelter in Toronto before?

KACHKAR:

No.

VRUNA:

No? Okay. What about um - what about … do you know how long you stayed with Steve when you came?

KACHKAR:

Ah, Stevie B; sometimes I stay with him for weeks.

VRUNA:

Okay. But, I mean this time.

KACHKAR:

This time, I don't remember; a few days or something.

VRUNA:

A few days? Yeah and do you remember wha’- what those few days were about or anything between you and him? I know you said he drinks a lot and plays some cards.

KACHKAR:

Normal - normal stuff, normal stuff. He’s always talking about his girls and stuff like that stupid stuff.

VRUNA:

M-hm. Do you have a girlfriend? No? No? Other than your wife? I mean you pay - you –you sound it and---

180 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

Yeah.

VRUNA:

---you have a treacherous relationship with ah your wife right?

KACHKAR:

Yeah. I have a lot - all the girls that come by, they like to see me and we talk and nice. I respect them. They’re all like my sisters.

VRUNA:

Okay, which girls are these?

KACHKAR:

Like friends like Stevie B has – all of - every day has new girls coming over with friends and---

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

---a lot of girls he has---

VRUNA:

Okay.

KACHKAR:

---coming over.

VRUNA:

Okay.

181 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

So they come, say hi, hi Richie, how are things talk to me; The only thing I talked to them about, I want to fix my place in St. Catharines and come help me.

VRUNA:

Yeah.

KACHKAR:

Basically that's why I'm there. There’s got to be … if they're not in a good situation they got to find somebody to come help me.

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

So that's the reason I was there too because I don't find myself any better than anybody else and I don't have any family.

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

You know they have a family and things like that.

VRUNA:

And they sort of took you in right?

KACHKAR:

Yeah.

VRUNA:

Yeah.

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

They've always been nice to me. Even I remember sometimes I didn't have money they ordered chicken they eat, we eat or I would cook at his house. That's all.

VRUNA:

Yeah. Did you ever – did he ever ask you for money to pay him?

KACHKAR:

Steve B.?

VRUNA:

Yeah.

KACHKAR:

Not really.

VRUNA:

Yeah. You said he drinks a lot, so if he was there drinking, would you partake in drinking? You don't drink anything at all? No? What do you normally drink?

KACHKAR:

I usually drink - well, nothing, just a juice or whatever.

VRUNA:

Like for breakfast when you get up in the morning what was your – what’s your ideal break’- breakfast?

KACHKAR:

I just make tea or have some toast or something. He doesn't have much food. Make some eggs or whatever.

183 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

Or go to McDonald's---

VRUNA:

Yeah.

KACHKAR:

---for coffee.

VRUNA:

And how do you pay for McDonald's?

KACHKAR:

Well, in fact usually I have some money on me.

VRUNA:

Yeah?

KACHKAR:

This last time I don't know what happened. This last time was something in my … it must be something in my – something.

VRUNA:

M-hm. What about drugs that Stevie B used? Does he do any drugs like? Not prescription drugs, like crack and?

KACHKAR:

I don't know.

VRUNA:
184 of 259

You don't know?

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

No. No. No. No.

VRUNA:

What about weed?

KACHKAR:

I don't think so.

VRUNA:

Have you ever participated in any of that? No? Have you ever tried to purchase drugs on the - on the – on the street or?

KACHKAR:

No.

VRUNA:

What about um you know in times where you needed to get money and you were really sort of destitute, did you try to - did you ever steal, rob or? For money? You're shaking your head; but?

KACHKAR:

No.

VRUNA:

No? No. Okay. I just have a couple more.

KACHKAR:

Because I don't need to - I don't need to rob. I have some clothes. I have my - you know some food.

185 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

I never had to.

VRUNA:

Yeah. So if you wanted to get your things right now, where would they be?

KACHKAR:

I don't know.

VRUNA:

You don't know?

KACHKAR:

No.

VRUNA:

No? Okay. Does anybody else have other than yourself, who has access to your Geneva address?

KACHKAR:

Just my wife.

VRUNA:

Yeah. Okay. How does she have access?

KACHKAR:

She just has a key, she goes checks on it and stuff like that.

VRUNA:

M-hm.

186 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

She checks the mail or whatever.

VRUNA:

M-hm. Okay. Um, I just want to understand, I'm trying to understand and - I think you might have explained it but the reason why you weren't supposed to be at your wife's house.

KACHKAR:

M-hm.

VRUNA:

You keep saying that I'm not supposed to be there, I’m not supposed to be there. Um is there - like what's---

KACHKAR:

When we moved to St. Catharines and I had the apartment everything was fine.

VRUNA:

Yeah.

KACHKAR:

She does her thing again. She goes out at night. I don't know where she goes. Like the same thing that you know like I had. I did.

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

She goes out, I don't know where. She walks around and then and then she checked herself into the hospital.

187 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

She checked herself in the hospital. Then she had to stay there. She was there about a month.

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

And since she was there for a month then the Child Protection Child Protection Services called me, and I says well, I'm not working right now and things like that and come you know. Basically, this has happened before. She leaves me with the kids, she goes, I take care of it. But this time, I said she was there I says I can't.

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

So they said okay wait, wait, wait. So they came and they interviewed me and so on and they found out that things were not so bad. I could take care of the kids.

VRUNA:

M-hm.

188 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

While she was in the hospital, we do with the kids now the kids will have to make dinner together. We make food together. She used to get mad when I’d have the kids, I would wash my car have the kids clean the rims.

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

She’d have a problem with that. Clean the rims of the car. So I'm - I'm getting them to clean the rims, to feel good about themselves, clean the rims to go for a ride.

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

So, I don't know, understanding difference like that. But as far as the - your question again was – was for what?

VRUNA:

Why you weren't supposed to be there? You keep saying, I - I wasn't allowed to be there.

KACHKAR:

Because she - she got that place in emergency situation because ah there were problems at home; violence at home or problems in the house.

VRUNA:
189 of 259

M-hm. Between you and her or?

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

Well, you know, I never had a chance to say anything so all I know is that she went and said something. I don't … without you know we could of gone to a counsellor or whatever we were having issues. But she sort of went and did her thing told them her thing. And they interviewed me and basically they said this girl needs her own place---

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

---and I shouldn't be there.

VRUNA:

Okay and you too’---

KACHKAR:

And I shouldn't have gone back there.

VRUNA:

So basically it was the ci’- the city or the government gave her that housing on the condition that she was gonna (sic) be a single mom living there?

KACHKAR:

Yeah.

VRUNA:

Is that?

190 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

Yeah. Because they thought---

VRUNA:

Yeah. You---

KACHKAR:

… that her …

VRUNA:

(UI:01) the gist of it?

KACHKAR:

Yeah.

VRUNA:

Okay.

KACHKAR:

Because her condition gets bad when we argue. If somebody's not in a good shape and they argue, it makes it worse right?

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

Especially, somebody like me.

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

So that was the thing.

191 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

VRUNA:

Okay you just - you just said something that just - you said that she had the same thing that you have where she left at night. What - what does that mean?

KACHKAR:

Like just the way when the would just walk around all day like when you have nowhere to go.

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

But she had a home.

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

she - nobody would tell her anything.

VRUNA:

Okay.

KACHKAR:

She was on her own.

VRUNA:

Well why is that the same with you are – I’m not…

KACHKAR:

What when – no – when - but she comes home.

VRUNA:
192 of 259

M-hm.

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

I don't tell her to leave. Maybe I had dinner ready, usually I do. Dinner is ready---

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

--- kids are clean everything. But she still prefers to go out like after work and when she was in Toronto ah we were in North York, she would be there by Finch and the Tim Horton's or wherever she was working there.

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

She would work like 15 hours a day or whatever and then she’d come home and then she’d go back, go shopping again. Like just stuff like that, all night.

VRUNA:

M-hm. But how is that the same as you?

KACHKAR:

So now when she used to – so she used to just leave - so now when - that's her house, it's my house she tells me that every day this is my place. So you have to go, you have to go---

VRUNA:
193 of 259

M-hm.

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

---and I get up and I go.

VRUNA:

M-hm.. Okay. So let me understand. When you go to a shelter you're only allowed to stay there between a certain hour – and for a certain hour right? Is that correct?

KACHKAR:

No. No.

VRUNA:

Like what were the rules for the Southridge?

KACHKAR:

The shelter? (U:01).

VRUNA:

What were the rules for Southridge? What time did you have to present yourself?

KACHKAR:

Just in the morning you get up and you have a shower and you have breakfast and - and you sleep and you go into the room and you can either go to prayers or whatever.

VRUNA:

M-hm. So if you wanted to stay at the shelter during the daytime you could?

KACHKAR:
194 of 259

Yeah.

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

VRUNA:

Oh.

KACHKAR:

I did. That’s what I was doing.

VRUNA:

Okay. In St. Catharines?

KACHKAR:

M-hm.

VRUNA:

And then - but if you wanted to leave for the day what time would you have to be back by?

KACHKAR:

Oh, by 10.

VRUNA:

At night? Okay. So - so did you – in those - in that period did you ever leave there and---

KACHKAR:

Yeah. A couple times.

VRUNA:

And where would you end up going?

KACHKAR:

I - I'd go to the ci’- I would go to the job-search bank on Church Street.

195 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

I do job search and things like that. And then um was it one night? One night … I really liked it there.

VRUNA:

At Southridge?

KACHKAR:

Yeah.

VRUNA:

Yeah? Well, that's good. That's good.

KACHKAR:

I did.

VRUNA:

Yeah?

KACHKAR:

I liked it. I told the lady too; I liked it.

VRUNA:

And what - did what you like about it?

KACHKAR:

And that was like---

VRUNA:

And what did you like about it? What did you like about it?

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

Just the consistency and you could eat and you could you know and you could---

VRUNA:

They took care of you right?

KACHKAR:

Well it's not that it's that is, it’s not that. It's not even the money it's that they have a program and then you could eat and its done and you're done now you can go do your job or do whatever; and I needed to speak to somebody there about my issues.

VRUNA:

Okay.

KACHKAR:

So and---

VRUNA:

And what were they?

KACHKAR:

I think I spoke to somebody lightly, but then I the lady came from um – from welfare---

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

---to get me set up. So I think she got me set up there.

VRUNA:
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M-hm.

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

Well, she must of. I started setting up like that.

VRUNA:

Okay and so what issues did you need to speak to somebody about?

KACHKAR:

Like why I’m – ah you know even though they were kicking me out of the house, I feel like I still want to go and be there or I'll let, you know, be there---

VRUNA:

Right.

KACHKAR:

--- I don't want to leave ---

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

---it’s not that I don't want to leave like I usually … I like to finish my thing you know so.

VRUNA:

Finish your thing?

KACHKAR:

Well the kids aren't ready yet. They're still young, my kids are still young and like at least I'd be in the picture somewhere they can call me.

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

I don't need to be there all the time; but just in case they need me.

VRUNA:

M-hm. Yeah.

KACHKAR:

Oh, dad here’s this. Oh, I went - she wants to go camping, she wants to sleep over at a boy’s house.

VRUNA:

You wanted to be part of their lives?

KACHKAR:

Yeah. I said I don't think so. You know - so that was it.

VRUNA:

M-hm. Okay what about – so you were saying religion; are you a religious person?

KACHKAR:

Not really, no.

VRUNA:

No? Do you go to church? Were you raised in a certain kind of religion? Do you ever practice religion while you were married with your wife?

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

No. Like I go Catholic school whatever, but I just --- that – I don’t know ---

VRUNA:

Catholic?

KACHKAR:

--- hope been there and maybe get some shut eye or whatever. I don't know what um---

VRUNA:

Did you go to church while you were in the shelter?

KACHKAR:

I went a few times.

VRUNA:

Now do they pray at the shelter?

KACHKAR:

If you want to.

VRUNA:

Yeah and did you?

KACHKAR:

A few times.

VRUNA:

Yeah? Yeah? Okay. How do you feel about religion?

KACHKAR:

Um, like I feel it's your conscience … how you feel.

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

You know like I feel it's like how you feel like um – um it's how you are like sh’- it's your conscience. Like – like um - and you know even like abortion I feel is wrong.

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

You know, I don't like them.

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

I don't feel they're right. You know that … I don't think those things are right. So---

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

---I went through one of those and I never - I can’t I still don't forgive myself you know?

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

My wife was young, we were just new in Vancouver and I never accepted that yet you know. Took a life and---

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

VRUNA:

Your wife did that? I'm sorry?

KACHKAR:

Yeah.

VRUNA:

That after your two children were born? Okay.

KACHKAR:

So you know I never really get closure on that.

VRUNA:

No? Did you ever try talking to your wife about that; and what did she tell you?

KACHKAR:

She wasn't well and they had to do it. She wasn't well.

VRUNA:

After she did that?

KACHKAR:

No, even before she wasn't well.

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

We had two kids and a little apartment and everything and finances and stuff like that.

VRUNA:
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So is that the reason why that happened?

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

No there - there came a point, because I was married in Armenia, there –there came a point even when my – and with my first son.

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

We went to the hospital - we were students and went to the hospital and even the doctor came out say oh you should get abortion. So, I don't think so like it wasn't even a question. So I had my son and I grew up my son. I wasn't - you know I grew up my son there and then - and I had to move around. I had to find a new house and like I’d find a house next to the – we’d live at student hostels right?

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

But I'd find a house with water and gas and I’d say take it. The wife would always say oh you just want to take me away from my friends and stuff like that so.

VRUNA:

M-hm.

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

So it’s always something like that. I took her to Edmonton she say oh I didn’t like Edmonton and it’s all something. It was always something.

VRUNA:

M-hm. So there was always a problem?

KACHKAR:

Always a problem. Always I never did it right. I always did---

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

---things like that.

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

I'm not sure what that has to do with this but.

VRUNA:

No, we’re just – we’re just ah you know … we don’t know, we’d like to know who Richard is right, and you’ve been very helpful.

KACHKAR:

Well, yeah---

VRUNA:

Right?

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

---and I - and I hope that it ah you know this - this follow-up I’m just telling you from my point of view how it is.

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

But I'm just - tomorrow you could see me and it won't affect me you know? I go do my work and it doesn't affect me. It used to affect me to go to work.

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

But I became immuned to it or.

NIELSEN:

It used to affect; what do you mean?

KACHKAR:

I’d go to work; in the morning I would argue with the wife and I would go to work.

NIELSEN:

But it bothered you when you went to work?

KACHKAR:

Well yeah. Because I had the tool, I had the machine I started thinking about what I'm doing or. Honey, what are you doing, what are you making today? Or something it’s always that. So my work was always affected; and they liked me at work. In

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

Vancouver I worked with ah some big companies, nice companies. High tech companies. (UI:01) technologies with smart car company and everything, but there’s always some kind of little problem you come you know - would come with your little baggage of problems.

VRUNA:

M-hm. So has - obviously, you were in the hospital right? You know that right? You were.

KACHKAR:

I don’t recall.

VRUNA:

At all when you were in the hospital?

KACHKAR:

No. No, nothing. I black out.

VRUNA:

So are you not wondering how you’re - you came about here? Have you not questioned it or?

KACHKAR:

I remember - I remember getting up or just opening my eyes and there’s like security there and then the guys come out or other guys come out say oh we discharge you and bang they just took me away. Until this day.

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

VRUNA:

Are you not wondering what - what the circumstances are or what it's about or why you’re here?

KACHKAR:

I have. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

VRUNA:

Yeah? Have you asked anybody about it? You haven’t? So aren’t you anxious to know why you're here? Like other than we've told you you've been charged right and you've had a couple of court appearances. Have you not inquired about what the circumstances that or particulars did you tell anyone?

KACHKAR:

Not really because there's nobody I mean so the security, Warden and everybody’s giving their little opinions … something - something's going on that they know and I don't know. That's what's happening. And I've never been in trouble before and I’ve never been in jail before. I've never had this suit on before, I've never been shot at before---

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

---or anything like that. Something happened to me tragic, I don't know why and now I'm sitting in there so.

VRUNA:
207 of 259

And how does that make you feel?

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

You know it makes me feel like day-to-day, if something's happened; I'm hoping that I can call my lawyer, I was supposed to call at 1, but I’ll call them back. I hope I have somebody who can clear me up and explain to me and sit - I'm not well now either. Like I might not even – you know, it's hard for me to recall this. Probably, I’m gonna (sic) go like that - like that, like back like a zombie again.

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

So I go lie down in my cell. I really appreciate speaking to you. Um um - couldn't imagine - like now somebody has no daddy, has no wife and trag’- what a tragedy and what a person like ah – ah I don't know what to say. What is – what a thing to say. What a thing to happen. I don't know these people. I don't know why I did it. I don't know people are telling me everything. It's like – it’s like a bad dream.

NIELSEN:

Now have you ever in your life have you ever had like a time period like you're – you’re describing where you don't remember? Has this ever happened before?

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

Yeah, like things when my dad passed away and stuff like that. He passed away he called me down and I had to go down. I – I went with my friend Peter from here, from Toronto. He was working at Krispy Kreme. Ah, I can't move, I can’t - I'm so weak when I went to Toronto I had to pack his furniture. I - how could I go into my dad’s little apartment. He had a house and he had an apartment. They tell me, oh you have to pack his apartment. Why do I want to pack his apartment if he has nice things there and everything I want to just leave. I don't feel people like are gone like that, gone and gone. He might not be there but he had instructions for me. He wanted me to take the car for his son and everything and this and that. Then the girls would come … yeah it's the same situation I feel.

NIELSEN:

But what - what my question was clearly you remember, but what I'm asking you was there ever a time period … we've asked you about what you said you can't seem to remember is when you went to the shelter in Toronto and when you were put in the ambulance.

KACHKAR:

I don't. I don't.

NIELSEN:

Is that - have you ever experienced that before in your life?

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

I don't think so.

NIELSEN:

And you're telling us today you didn't take any drugs? You weren't drinking?

KACHKAR:

I remember coming and looking over the bridge there and going like to Regent Park.

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

Looking over the bridge, I was gonna (sic) go – I had my head over, I was just ---

NIELSEN:

What were you thinking?

KACHKAR:

I’m gonna (sic) jump. I was gonna (sic) jump.

NIELSEN:

You were gonna (sic) jump?

KACHKAR:

Easy.

NIELSEN:

When was that?

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

That was the day the same day; the morning of all that or the eve - one evening.

NIELSEN:

The evening?

KACHKAR:

Yeah. One evening I don't remember. I was going to Stevie's house.

NIELSEN:

Now is this when you were going to Stevie B’s house or - or after you left the shelter?

KACHKAR:

No, before the shelter.

NIELSEN:

Before the shelter?

KACHKAR:

Before the shelter and then that - then that was the evening, so that why the next morning and I think I went to B’s house stayed outside his house because he was inside drinking.

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

So, I slept in the hallway. And that next morning I started to walk over, went to the hospital. I started saying I'm not feeling well; they have no room, I had to wait in line and then I went

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

there, I walked away, walked all – where did I walk? I walked down - I don't remember and I walked far.

NIELSEN:

So you were looking over a bridge?

KACHKAR:

Yeah on the way home.

NIELSEN:

And you’re - you said you were thinking of jumping?

KACHKAR:

Yeah. It's clear you know … something like that---

NIELSEN:

And when you were doing this---

KACHKAR:

---It never happened to me before.

NIELSEN:

That never happened to you before?

KACHKAR:

No.

NIELSEN:

Would you say that's the worst you ever felt in your life is that fair?

KACHKAR:

I don't even know why.

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

I don't even know why. I had hope you know. Okay and so what, my wife doesn’t like want me there and the kids. I thought I was over that you know --I really.

NIELSEN:

So it sounds to me um like - what seems to be the ---

KACHKAR:

M-hm.

NIELSEN:

---thing that you bring up more than anything in the time we've been talking quite a bit … your relationship with your wife seems to be something that upsets you.

KACHKAR:

Not really, the relation with her; it's really not that important because you know what she's an adult, I'm an adult, I move on you know and---

NIELSEN:

Right.

KACHKAR:

---and in anything, I can move on, I move on. But it's a matter of me being there in case something happens to her. Who's gonna (sic) help her kids? Who's gonna (sic) - whose gonna (sic) sup’you know these kids they go one day on the street and they end

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

up - one day you go a kid on the street they end up giving you dope and whatever and whatever or.

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

Right? Guys out there, what do they know what they’re doing? At first it could be crack and then tell you to do this and do that. So for me, I'm too worried about that because she's a - she's a vulnerable kid. She only has me and her dad; she doesn't have any grandparents or any cousins or anything like that.

NIELSEN:

Your daughter?

KACHKAR:

Yeah and she doesn't get along with the wife either. Always arguing, always arguing, swearing again at her too.

NIELSEN:

Okay. Did you have any recent ah arguments with your daughter?

KACHKAR:

I don't know. Not really recent. She wanted to go get an iPod and I says why don't you - she wanted to get an I’- one of those iPods and I said well why don't you look at another one or whatever. She got mad, threw all my clothes down on the floor and whatever. So my wife just goes out and buys it for her. You

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

know if I kept my mouth shut, let them do it, I think they would go on, they’re okay maybe, they are okay. I don't know. They don't need me. They hated me.

NIELSEN:

So you know the same thing that I asked you from ah - from my perspective um seems to me what seems to make you upset is your relationship or issues with your - your wife and your children.

KACHKAR:

Well it doesn’t really make me upset.

NIELSEN:

Yeah.

VRUNA:

Well, how - how about it affects you right? and that has from---

KACHKAR:

It doesn't really affect me because in the end I can't help it anyways. In the end; I can't help my daughter has some eating disorder, what can I do she has to go to the doctor and follow the doctor’s orders. I don't get involved, I never get involved when I can. They come to me ask something about tubing or – something about a car or something, I can help them. But I never get involved with people and their gossip and blah, blah, blah or pills or wh--. I don't know, I'm not a professional. So at that point, that's why I said at this point it's better I leave,

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

because they're fine. They know they have their doctors, they have their school, they have themselves, they can deal with themselves. They don't need me anymore. I'm not even upset, wasn't even affecting. It wasn't affecting me. I wasn't always distraught leaving my wife and things like that. It wasn't that it's better. It was a good - it was a good time because they knew and I knew and it was a good time for me to move on. I wasn't even gonna (sic) contact her. I don't even contact her. The, the lieutenant let me call her a while ago, just a few days, otherwise, I wouldn't even of called.

VRUNA:

Where were you going to move on to?

KACHKAR:

Just get my job and get my apartment and start my work. That's all I wanted to do. But there's a lot of jobs now here with my heavy equipment and everything. I know I can do it. But not like going back like this and back-and-forth. I needed to stay now. That was my point and I was ready. And now that - that thing happened, whatever at night I don't remember. I don't know what happened. That's what I need to - I need to put back together; I don't know.

NIELSEN:

You don't remember what happened?

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

No. Obviously, it wasn't part of my … obviously, I wasn’t plan it or anything like that. It was just so weird.

NIELSEN:

What was weird?

KACHKAR:

Just everything, even going to a shelter. I didn't have to go to a shelter. I could of called friends, I have other friends here I could of said you know, I need a week to stay with you and they would of. I don't know why I ended up like that.

NIELSEN:

This thing when you - when you went to the bridge. How long did you stay at the bridge for?

KACHKAR:

I was standing up and seeing the water, water and I said, I said then I said that's gonna (sic) be weird because - it's gonna (sic) be weird. People are gonna (sic) be concerned about me and you know because I know they care about me. I know my family cares about me.

NIELSEN:

Right.

KACHKAR:

So, I just did it on the spot. I never had those feelings before. I don't know.

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

How long did you stay on the bridge?

KACHKAR:

Five minutes or a few minutes, I stayed there.

NIELSEN:

And where is this bridge again?

KACHKAR:

Just the one on um ah - I think Gerrard Street, just Gerrard Street by - by River.

NIELSEN:

So it's over the water?

KACHKAR:

Over the water.

NIELSEN:

Now you say that you never felt like harming yourself before? That's the first time in your life?

KACHKAR:

Um like that? Yeah.

NIELSEN:

What do you mean like that? Have you felt like harming yourself in another way before?

KACHKAR:

Not harming, but just like getting out of the picture.

NIELSEN:
218 of 259

What do you mean by that?

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

Like feeling that I'm always causing problems for people and so I don't want to be a problem for people. So I just wanted to, you know, what do you do? You're always there. Like say I'm here now and we - and we’re eating but we’re here and then somebody comes and says oh, what are you doing here? That's enough to just ruin my evening. Really. Maybe it's a joke or not a joke, but it doesn't happen to me outside, usually people don't … have the opposite. Usually people are happy and I'm happy to see people. I’m even happy to see you here

NIELSEN:

How do you feel - are you saying that you felt like a – a burden to people is that fair?

KACHKAR:

Yeah. Like they’re up high and they started cutting, they start cutting the tree and leave me out of it.

NIELSEN:

How does that make you feel?

KACHKAR:

It makes me feel I want to get out of this situation. It makes me feel I'm out of here like.

NIELSEN:

And when you mean - when you say out of here; and what do you mean?

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

Like just don't exist.

NIELSEN:

Do you want to die?

KACHKAR:

I don't know. Like I wish I would just go like, just go away somewhere. Just, where, I just would be somewhere else. No, I don't feel like I want to die, but I just don't feel like there. Like if I could be lifted up and go somewhere else like not –I don't feel - I don't like those countries. I don't like those are - those Middle Eastern countries. Those Armenia those place - I don't like those places. They have no rules, everybody does what they want to do. They - I don't like those. I just need - want a place. I don't know.

NIELSEN:

Richard, what do you think of suicide? What's your personal opinion on suicide?

KACHKAR:

I don't think it's right at all.

NIELSEN:

No?

KACHKAR:

No.

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Now is that because of - why is that? Is it because of religion?

KACHKAR:

No, because I just didn’t feel it is right, just take your life like that. I think it's sick, it causes sickness around you. And you hurt people around you. It's just not something - I mean---

NIELSEN:

I'm gonna (sic) ask you a question Richard; I know you’ve said you don't remember. It sounds like you're feeling -- not feeling very good about yourself. Is that fair? When you came to Toronto?

KACHKAR:

Even before.

NIELSEN:

Even before? How long have you been feeling not good about yourself?

KACHKAR:

It’s been a long time. Like even in the summer when her relatives came from - from Iran and---

NIELSEN:

Last summer?

KACHKAR:

You know they ate and then they told me to leave. I says can I just a piece of watermelon they said no. Like they cut watermelon and ate…

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

And then they say you have to go after they cut the watermelon.

NIELSEN:

So that - you've been feeling bad about yourself a long time. And you've described a number of reasons for it. You've told me how you feel about suicide. You've also said that you’d like to, because of how people leave you out or make you feel that you are a burden, you'd like to ah go away or not exist?

KACHKAR:

Yeah just be away.

NIELSEN:

Is that fair?

KACHKAR:

Yeah. Like if I go to Stevie B’s, I don't tell people I'm there. I don't have a phone. I don't want people to call me. I don't want to call anybody. I just want to be alone.

NIELSEN:

Have you ever thought of any other ways where you wouldn't or you couldn't exist? Now you told me you were thinking of jumping off a bridge. Have you ever thought of any other way?

KACHKAR:
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Yeah, like moving.

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Moving away?

KACHKAR:

Just moving away.

NIELSEN:

But that's a big difference to me - moving away and jumping off a bridge . Jumping off a bridge is taking your own life.

KACHKAR:

Yeah. Doing that, you know, I'm just telling you because it’s the truth what happened.

NIELSEN:

I appreciate that.

KACHKAR:

Yeah, I wouldn't just sit make that up. Like I never looked off like I go over - over bridges I'm even scared of them.

NIELSEN:

And that's why I would bring it up because you said that.

KACHKAR:

Yeah, I go over bridges I'm scared of them. I go, you know, life’s important. I have my daughter, she's asking for me. People have – the other man has his daughter.

NIELSEN:

On this occasion you said you were thinking of jumping?

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

No, it wasn't I was thinking. It was like---

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

---it just became something possible. It became a possibility.

NIELSEN:

A possibility?

KACHKAR:

Yeah. Like---

NIELSEN:

But it didn't last though?

KACHKAR:

No, I said that’s - I better get out of here and go like shake my head, walk back.

NIELSEN:

Have you ever thought of suicide?

KACHKAR:

No.

NIELSEN:

No?

KACHKAR:

I know I'm - I know I could I'm helpful to people. I go to – when I go myself to people like even to Regent Park. I've never been there right? I don't know, my friend took me there. But I met

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

nice people there. There's people who, nice people there. Working people, after work, you know they come, they have a beer or whatever. That's good for me. I used to finish work, have a beer and sit outside, talk about things. So anywhere I go, new, I work and people like me I'm okay. So, I needed a - just a start somewhere. I needed a start – just start to do something and be useful with what I have.

NIELSEN:

Richard, what do you think about police officers? What's your experience with police officers?

KACHKAR:

I have all respect for them, love them. Take care of people, have hard jobs. Protect people, they're always there for you.

NIELSEN:

You’ve ever had a problem with police officers?

KACHKAR:

No.

NIELSEN:

Police officers came to your house a couple of times. How was your dealings with them? How did you find him just?

KACHKAR:

I appreciated what they did. They came, just told me to cool down and---

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Yeah they treated your wife okay? And they treated you okay? And your children? You said something ah earlier when De’Detective VRUNA was talking to. You said something about being shot. What do you remember about being shot?

KACHKAR:

I don't recall.

NIELSEN:

Why did you make that statement? Is that because of your wounds or you actually know?

KACHKAR:

No, because they told me.

NIELSEN:

You were told eh?

KACHKAR:

I wouldn't have known. They told me. They said here, here, here, here. Here. I still don't believe it.

NIELSEN:

You’ve never asked anybody about what the allegations are? You were in court. Did ah you not talk to Duty Counsel about the allegations against you are? What we’re alleging that you did. Did that - that lawyer didn't explain that to you?

KACHKAR:

I didn't have a lawyer.

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

There was Duty Counsel – in -in court---

KACHKAR:

She was---

NIELSEN:

---when you appeared in court and they had a synopsis of charges about the allegations there. Did not anybody go over that with you?

KACHKAR:

Yeah, they said I'm – I’m being charged with Murder. Just like they said in the court here.

NIELSEN:

Did they say what - what it involved? What were the circumstances that they told you?

KACHKAR:

Yeah it's Murder in one because it’s a police officer.

NIELSEN:

M-hm. So they told you that.

KACHKAR:

They told me that.

VRUNA:

So what about the circumstances that were surrounding---

KACHKAR:

I don't remember anything.

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

VRUNA:

---to that charge? You don't know what led up to that?

KACHKAR:

No, because I didn't have a lawyer - I didn't have a lawyer to speak to and I didn't ask.

VRUNA:

So do you have any questions for us about that?

KACHKAR:

I - I should have a lawyer with me. I should have a lawyer with me that---

NIELSEN:

It’s you asking questions of us; do you have any questions of us about it?

KACHKAR:

No, because I because I know I did something wrong. I know I did something wrong, I did something stupid. I'm having a hard time recalling it. I’m mixed up. I've never had a pol’- I've always had highest regards for police and all my - and all things. I always even wanted to be police. But why – you know why would I do that? And even if it was let's say, you know, it could of been anybody. It could. It could of been much worse too. It could of been a group of kids and a bus stop … they shoot. This could have been disastrous. But it wasn't. It didn't have

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

anything to do with police. That's when the wife calls the lawyer on the newspaper cop killer everything. I said wow. Wow.

NIELSEN:

I'm trying to get ah when you - maybe I'm misunderstanding; you said it could of been worse?

KACHKAR:

Yeah. It could have been. Well, I mean it could.

NIELSEN:

A - a young man lost his life.

KACHKAR:

Yeah. What happens if I - what happens if I had hit a whole bunch of people?

NIELSEN:

If it was somebody other than a police officer that would make it worse in your mind?

KACHKAR:

No, I'm saying police officers is - is tragic.

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

But any life is tragic as well.

NIELSEN:

Okay.

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

Police officer is tragic but that’s his job; same thing with these Wardens here. They're taking care of people. They – taking care of people with disease, with AIDS - you get AIDS through blood right, through a fight.

NIELSEN:

And that's just part of the - that's the nature of the job – the job?

KACHKAR:

Well, the nature of the job but plus the person goes out (Inaudible) I’m seeing that. It's tragic what happened. I can't believe what happened.

NIELSEN:

Okay.

KACHKAR:

I don’t know how it happened.

NIELSEN:

Did what happened - all this happened. Did it happen because you were upset with yourself and your life? Is that what the what the problem is?

KACHKAR:

I don't know. I really don't know. I don't know.

NIELSEN:

You don't think so?

KACHKAR:
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No, because I have a good life ahead of me.

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

My kids are older now and everything. I don't have a bad life. I have a good life. I have all my skills, everything ready to go. Just – this is just a training part, it's just a matter of - of making sure they're okay, that's all.

NIELSEN:

Like going back to what you've told us. You went to see your wife and your kids and they didn't let, they didn't want you in the house. When you left you had 20 - $22 dollars to your name. You had no other money. You had only the clothes on your back. You came to Toronto. It sounds to me like you weren't very happy.

. KACHKAR: No officer; I’m happy because I know here Stevie B’s got some clothes for me. They'll help me out and one day I get a job when I want to. The reason before I couldn't is just because I was also going back and forth, back and forth. But now when I came this time---

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

---it was here to stay so they were gonna (sic) I could get help, I could go to the next morning. I could go down to the job place and get a job. I was ready this time.

NIELSEN:

You also said you weren't feeling very good. In fact, I think I asked you this ‘is this the worst you felt in your life’ and you you agreed with that. Is that true? Is that a fair statement?

KACHKAR:

Um, yeah. But it's separate from that. It wasn't because I'm here or there. I wasn't feeling good just because - just like if you were eating and then you told me to leave.

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

Say if the food came and you said leave; I would feel like bad. That's all it was.

NIELSEN:

So when you say you felt bad, bad enough to go to the hospital or clinic, because you wanted to see a doctor? That's what you said right?

KACHKAR:

Yeah.

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

And I asked you if this was the worst you felt in your life and you said yes. But was it bad like you just described, somebody asking you to leave and you don't want to or is it bad for some other reason? Because the way I understood it, it's not---

KACHKAR:

Bad becauseI know I'm not gonna (sic) go back anymore. That's the end of it.

NIELSEN:

Back to?

KACHKAR:

Back home, or care or anything. Even if the call and say oh Ashley's in trouble; I can’t help you anymore.

NIELSEN:

Had you made that decision?

KACHKAR:

I did make that decision.

NIELSEN:

When did you make that decision?

KACHKAR:

When they – that - when I left Toronto that night.

NIELSEN:

You said?

KACHKAR:
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When I left St. Catharines that night.

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

So that was a pretty final decision on your part?

KACHKAR:

A very final decision.

NIELSEN:

You said you weren't gonna (sic) go back?

KACHKAR:

Ah, it's not that I wasn't gonna (sic) go back, but I'm not gonna (sic) go here and there and call and everything that’s - that’s, this was decided. That was after the shelter I think um - in St. Catharines. That was the purpose of that.

NIELSEN:

Alright.

KACHKAR:

I could have stayed at the house too. I could have stayed. Even at night they didn't want me there, I couldn't have said oh please can I stay, they would of let me stay. But I had enough of that.

NIELSEN:

You had enough then?

KACHKAR:

Yeah. It wasn't – it wasn’t right for me. It wasn't right for them They don't want me around, they want their privacy. I respect that. Just like I knock on the door and I'd say can I come in you say no you’re busy.

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

And so when you went - you said you went to Toronto you made the decision that you weren't gonna go back?

KACHKAR:

No. I wasn’t gonna (sic) go back. I was gonna (sic) stay, find a place and go for the housing, get my housing, and whatever whatever to get my work going.

NIELSEN:

So again, this - you don't think this happened, this incident you can't remember - you don't think it happened because you were upset with your life?

KACHKAR:

No.

NIELSEN:

Do you have any explanation why something like this would happen?

KACHKAR:

I've been way more upset in my life. I've been upset with my dad, what happened, my sister. I've been upset before, with the wife and and a lot. This wasn't upsetting this was a a good - it was a - it was a almost a good time. You know kids are older now. They are, they’re 21 and 18. That's it, they got to be okay. I've got to move on. I don't know what happened to me.

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Is this the first time that you made this decision that you were gonna (sic) move on?

KACHKAR:

Yeah. But even before when I was here, always I’m thinking that I'm gonna (sic) go on the weekends, go back home see the kids when I'm working here.

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

Always I’m going back. Even the bus driver was asking ‘you're spending more money on the bus than you’re um – than you’re ah making.’

NIELSEN:

Do you have any questions of me or do you have any more questions?

VRUNA:

No, I just ah - when you went to the hospital you actually went into the hospital, did you register when you were there or?

KACHKAR:

I think so.

VRUNA:

Did you tell the reception there that … you went into the Emerge or where did you go?

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

I went into some – through this - I went through there the security guard took me and took me there.

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

And I think I gave her my name maybe. But there was like five people, six people there. The lady with cancer, another old lady there. There was a whole bunch of people there.

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

And I said and how am I supposed to do that? How am I supposed to wait? She said look everybody's waiting.

VRUNA:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

And then somebody yelled at me and a guy says oh I'm a med student, and my mom has cancer and we’re waiting.

VRUNA:

Okay. But you gave your name?

KACHKAR:

I think so.

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

VRUNA:

Yeah. I got … the only question I have is um you know the family of this officer right is gonna (sic) wanna (sic) know that ah Detective Sergeant NIELSEN and myself have spoken to you.

KACHKAR:

M-hm.

VRUNA:

Is there anything you want us to say to them?

KACHKAR:

I'm just so um sad that I did something like that tragic. Now they don't have a daddy and their kids and everything like that. It's just - it's just horrible thing. Horrible thing. I don't even know why - why or how or? I'm sorry. Sorry is not even a word. What do you,what … it was an accident. It wasn't meant to be. Kids without their daddy not coming home and the wife has no husband and all their family and friends and a man of such nice position.

NIELSEN:

Can I ask you something about what you just said? If you don't remember, how do you know it was an accident?

KACHKAR:

Because I never planned it. Never did any – never went on purpose. It was some - something happened.

NIELSEN:
238 of 259

Like how do you know it was an accident?

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

Well, because I never planned it never.

NIELSEN:

Because you didn't plan it ahead of time? You just kind of just did it?

KACHKAR:

But that I did it. Driving was night time. I don't know what happened.

NIELSEN:

Just because it was night when you were driving, do you have a hard time remembering?

KACHKAR:

I don't remember any of that.

NIELSEN:

You don't remember any of it?

KACHKAR:

The cars coming and going this way and that way and I can't turn and just confused.

NIELSEN:

What was making you confused? The cars or because it was night?

KACHKAR:

Just like, I didn't even know what I was doing. Where I was going.

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Where did you think you were going?

KACHKAR:

Just running.

NIELSEN:

Just running?

KACHKAR:

Yeah.

NIELSEN:

What were you running from?

KACHKAR:

I don't know. That's what I'm saying. I really don't know what happened. It's weird … I don't know what happened.

NIELSEN:

Do you remember hitting any cars?

KACHKAR:

I don't know, there's something's coming …

NIELSEN:

I know.

KACHKAR:

… flashing everything. But, I don't know. I can't recall what’s happened that night.

NIELSEN:
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What kind of things are flashing?

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

Just lights and cars and I'm driving and that's all. I don't remember---

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

---any of those details.

NIELSEN:

Okay. Now do you remember how it is you got to be driving?

KACHKAR:

No.

NIELSEN:

And you don’t remember hitting anything? So what are some of the details that you do remember?

KACHKAR:

I don't remember anything.

NIELSEN:

You don't remember talking to anybody when you were driving? Do you remember anybody, anybody saying anything to you?

KACHKAR:

Someone with me when I was driving?

NIELSEN:

Saying anything to you while you were driving? No. You just remember driving back and forth?

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

I don't even remember. I just don't - I don't even remember that.

NIELSEN:

But you said that, that's why I'm asking you that.

KACHKAR:

It’s like a dream or something.

NIELSEN:

It’s like a dream? What about the lights? What kind of lights?

KACHKAR:

Cars. The cars - like I would go this way and then they would stop and then they would put me this way and then I would – would sort of blackout or something like that and then I’d back up and I’d go again and make things happen.

NIELSEN:

So you’d back up?

KACHKAR:

I don't remember. I'm just … I mentioned, that’s the kind of lifestyle I had now I do something like that. It doesn't – it doesn’t---

NIELSEN:

Oh, so it sou’- it sounds to me like some of it is coming back to you?

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

Well, whether it's coming back, I don't know where, how and what, so? If I get – if I sit in - if I sit with somebody---

NIELSEN:

M-hm

KACHKAR:

---and – and learn and understand more and more details, I could do better. I could do more, I could explain more. But right now I can't recall. Especially, I'd remember um - all I remember, even in the hospital, getting up and they say just wake up. Yeah, that's weird. One minute I'm there, one minute I'm there in the shelter one minute –next minute I'm in the hospital. That's what I'm seeing.

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

And all those little flashes of how I wish I could tell you. Has it happened to somebody else, I - I don't know. But in your career you, have you heard of such - such a thing?

NIELSEN:

Well it's entirely different. It's---

KACHKAR:

M-hm.

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

--- I've been doing this for a long time, so every case is different and this - and this one is different. Every case is different.

KACHKAR:

Yeah. I never hurt a fly in my life … I never hurt nothing and everything I have always helped - helped people. Then have something tragic like this happen. So either I'm sick, sounds like I'm sick.

NIELSEN:

What do you remember about the vehicle you were driving? Did you have a hard time driving it?

KACHKAR:

I don't remember.

NIELSEN:

Remember how you were dressed?

KACHKAR:

No.

NIELSEN:

What about the weather, what do you remember about that night outside? Was it cold?

KACHKAR:

I don’t remember.

NIELSEN:

You don't remember?

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

Isn’t it better I get a - I get the lawyer and we go over that and get that? Isn't that better in you - in your opinion?

NIELSEN:

What I tell you is that’s up to you, that's your choice.

KACHKAR:

I need to do that officer. I've been saying that from the beginning. I need to do that and maybe I'm sick. Obviously I'm sick.

NIELSEN:

You think you're sick?

KACHKAR:

For sure I'm sick. Something’s wrong with me. Of course, who would do that? A normal person wouldn't do that?

NIELSEN:

What do you think is wrong with you?

KACHKAR:

I don't know, maybe I have some kind of disease in my head or something? Mental illness.

NIELSEN:

Have you – have you ever seen a psychiatrist before?

KACHKAR:

A few times.

NIELSEN:
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You have seen? Okay. Because I asked you that.

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

No, I know. But they don't take me in. I go there to see them. People have recommended me. I go there, I see them, they look at me, says no, you go and you're okay.

NIELSEN:

Who recommended you to see a psychiatrist?

KACHKAR:

Like my mom and my - other people and - and in Vancou’- in ah Toronto.

NIELSEN:

Who in Toronto told you to go see a psychiatrist?

KACHKAR:

Like my workplace.

NIELSEN:

Which workplace?

KACHKAR:

At that pharmaceutical company.

NIELSEN:

They asked you to go see a psychiatrist?

KACHKAR:

Yeah like things happen they say---

NIELSEN:

Who – who - who in your workplace asked you to see a psychiatrist?

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

I don’t remember, one of the workers. One of the girls there. “He’s crazy. Ritchie, you're crazy or whatever.”

NIELSEN:

So just sit down and talk or?

KACHKAR:

Yeah, just like that.

NIELSEN:

Did they say---

KACHKAR:

No. No, like that. Like talking. Like we’re doing something about paperwork or whatever, and I ask this and that and like an argument and they’re – they’re in an argument and … You should go in crazy house or whatever.

NIELSEN:

Anybody else?

KACHKAR:

Well, in St. Catharines when I, when I broke up with my wife, they said I should go; and I went and he said---

NIELSEN:

You went to see a psychiatrist?

KACHKAR:

Yeah, I got to see him. Yeah.

247 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Which one did you go see?

KACHKAR:

I don't know, the Canadian Mental Health Association in St. Catharines. I don't know even if he is a psychiatrist. No, I don't believe he was.

NIELSEN:

When was that?

KACHKAR:

Maybe 2005.

NIELSEN:

2005? Like who recommended that you do that?

KACHKAR:

Like Child Protection; I think.

NIELSEN:

So the Children's Aid or?

KACHKAR:

M-hm.

NIELSEN:

Child Protection or Child and Family Services? That type of thing?

KACHKAR:

Um, I don't think they meant specifically, but they said you better go get help. Oh, my mother-in-law. Last when we we talked.

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Okay.

KACHKAR:

Did I mention that?

NIELSEN:

Yeah. Did you actually go get help? Did you see the psychiatrist?

KACHKAR:

That’s why I went to Southridge. That's why I went to Southridge. I went there, told them I'm here and I went and had a good time. My family was here and they said that's I need – they need – I need to see - um my mother-in-law said I need to go see a psychiatrist and take medicine.

NIELSEN:

Why?

KACHKAR:

I don't know.

NIELSEN:

No one’s ever told you why? And did you actually ever go and meet with a psychiatrist?

KACHKAR:

Not really. I always meet with the - with the social worker and everything. And then that's it. I never really go see a psychiatrist. I’ve never seen a psychiatrist.

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

In - in your whole life? So you've never and truly?

KACHKAR:

I've been in their offices and everything but never go inside and visit with them, no.

NIELSEN:

Do you have appointments?

KACHKAR:

I think so. Like in Vancouver my mom made me one and he said get out of here, he says who told you to come here I said oh my mom. He goes oh that's garbage.

NIELSEN:

You’ve made appointments but you never actually sat down in an office with a psychiatrist who asked you questions. That's never happened? So you've never been treated for any sickness of the mind?

KACHKAR:

I think I have that.

NIELSEN:

You think you have that. Why - why do you say you think you have that?

KACHKAR:

Just look at my actions. Look at my actions. What everybody's saying I'm doing now. I’m in jail. There’s something wrong

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

with me. I wouldn't be here. I would be out cleaning my sister's place or cooking food or being with my dogs. Why would I be here? Something's wrong with me.

NIELSEN:

And that’s your explanation for that. You have no - other than – because this has never happened to you before?

KACHKAR:

Opposite. Opposite. I've always been caring. Even coming home off of the bus. Somebody's causing a ruckus on the bus, I'll – I’ll make sure he's okay and sit until the bus stops. I'm there you know? Car accidents, I'd be driving my truck and would be doing my deliveries and (Inaudible) puff of smoke everybody is driving by. I would stop my truck, go help the people out if they're stuck in the guardrail. A lot of accidents. That's what I'm saying. It’s very unusual. It's the weirdest thing that ever happened to me.

NIELSEN:

It’s the weirdest thing?

KACHKAR:

Yeah.

NIELSEN:

It’s the weirdest thing in - in your life that's ever happened?

251 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

Of course. Weird is not even - I took a li--- I did a lot of damage.

NOTICED THAT VIDEO CAMERA STOPPED WORKING ATTEMPT TO RESTART IT WAS MADE TIME ON AUDIO PORTION IS
VRUNA: Um---

NIELSEN:

Okay. Our camera is not working and it’s um - we just noticed it at 2:03 p.m. but our audio recorder is still working.

KACHKAR:

So ah - so – sorry, officer may have the time please?

NIELSEN:

It’s 2:03.

KACHKAR:

2:03. So when I go back to my thing, I'm definitely gonna (sic) call some help.

NIELSEN:
252 of 259

That’s up to you.

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

KACHKAR:

I have to.

NIELSEN:

Okay.

KACHKAR:

Because I don't recall. I would tell you. I would tell you everything. I don't know what's going on.

NIELSEN:

Okay.

KACHKAR:

It’s so - so out of character, out of touch. As far as the family and everything, how - how - it will be like my whole family. It's my whole family, that what happen. Even I feel that now I did that. How could somebody prepare for that like? Like I'm driving on anywhere or do anything to cause that? Or in the army or somewhere and you do that. I never take or hurt nobody. Now I have to … you know?

(ATTEMPT TO RESTART THE VIDEO CAMERA AND IT
253 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

STARTS RECORDING HERE)
They must - I hope they're not angry. I hope they're not angry.

NIELSEN:

Who’s - who's they?

KACHKAR:

The family.

NIELSEN:

The family of?

KACHKAR:

Of the victims. I hope they're not angry.

NIELSEN:

Well, they're upset.

KACHKAR:

Yeah. Ah – ah but angry. Because I know, because I'm sick so.

NIELSEN:

They’re devastated at their loss.

KACHKAR:

Yeah. But I’m - something's wrong with me. That's all I think about is that loss.

254 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

(VIDEO STOPS WORKING AT THIS POINT THIS REMAINING PORTION IS CAPTURED ON AUDIO ONLY)
I'm not worried about this even the rest of my life, I'd stay here. What is mine. I did that. I caused that much damage. What could, why – what how can I – ever, how can I ever be?

NIELSEN:

How much damage do you think you caused?

KACHKAR:

A lifetime damage for people. No father now, I feel bad. Irreparable. Like if this happened to your family or my family or anybody's family. It happened to somebody's family. A nice family.

255 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Well, what would you like - would you like us to say anything to the family?

KACHKAR:

Just like that he’s my own family, my own father too that I did it. It was like - my own father. My own son, my own kids, the same. I feel the same---

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

---it wouldn’t be. (Inaudible) So those things never should of happened.

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

I shouldn't of been out there you know I shouldn't - it shouldn't of happened. I put his life … it shouldn't of happened. And if I spend the rest of my life in thing that's still nothing. I've never spent a – a day in these places and now I’m here? It's so weird for me, really. It not weird; it's just I’m - do you see I'm not well when you look at me? Do you feel something's wrong? You must feel that?

256 of 259

Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Ah, again to be fair, you seem pretty normal to me. I mean we've been able to converse for I think three hours now or 2 and a 1/2 hours. Um yeah, I'm just trying to understand what happened. That's what I see.

KACHKAR:

I don't even know that area. I don't even know that.

NIELSEN:

M-hm.

KACHKAR:

I come from a good family. I don’t know what happened to me. I just feel in my own family. I’m very, very, very, very, very sorry that never um - and – and my family too. My family must be so disappointed in that. We don't see people in our lives - we don't see people different like that. It happens to anybody, it happens to us. I don't feel different. My kids. My kids, I don’t feel that.

NIELSEN:

Well, Mary do you have anymore questions?

VRUNA:

No, I don't.

NIELSEN:

Okay. We've been talking for quite a long time um which -ah the time right now, what we’re gonna (sic) do is we’re gonna (sic) get the – the guards are gonna (sic) take you back to the

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

infirmary okay? Um, the time right now is 2:08 p.m. I'm just gonna (sic) get up---

KACHKAR:

Okay.

NIELSEN:

---and I’ll have you stay there until I get them to come and get you okay?

MALE:

Yes sir.

NIELSEN:

If I could get your names? What are your names?

CUMMING:

Fred CUMMING.

HARDING:

Kyle HARDING.

NIELSEN:

Alright. Do you have badge numbers or anything?

CUMMING:

0343

HARDING:

0194

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED INTERVIEW OF RICHARD KACHKAR BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT DANIEL NIELSEN (5809) AND DETECTIVE MARY VRUNA (7164) ON 25TH, JANUARY, 2011, AT 10:01 HOURS

NIELSEN:

Okay. Richard it's ah – it’s now 2:09 p.m. There’s two security officers here ah Fred CUMMING, badge 0343 and Kyle HARDING, 0194. They’re gonna (sic) escort you out okay?

KACHKAR:

Thank you

NIELSEN:

Okay. There’s Darren JONES here as well. I'm turning the recording off at ah - it's just after ah 2:09 p.m.

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Interviewee: Richard KACHKAR Job No.: 5735 Accused: Richard KACHKAR

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