This action might not be possible to undo. Are you sure you want to continue?
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT EASTERN DISTRICT OF KENTUCKY NORTHERN DIVISION AT COVINGTON : : : : : : : : : - - TRANSCRIPT OF TRIAL PROCEEDINGS BEFORE WILLIAM O. BERTELSMAN UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT JUDGE APPEARANCES: For the Plaintiff: - - ERIC C. DETERS, ESQ. Eric C. Deters & Partners, PSC 5247 Madison Pike Independence, KY 41051 ALEXANDER C. WARD, ESQ. ALEXIS MATTINGLY, ESQ. Huddleston Bolen, LLP - Ashland 855 Central Avenue, Suite 301 P.O. Box 770 Ashland, KY 41101 and DAVID GINGRAS, ESQ. Gingras Law Office, PLLC E. Chandler Boulevard #106-243 Phoenix, AZ 85048 JOAN LAMPKE AVERDICK, RMR-CRR Official Court Reporter 35 W. Fifth Street, Box 1073 Covington, KY 41012 (859) 291-9666 Docket No. CV 09-219 Covington, Kentucky Wednesday, January 23, 2013 9:00 a.m. DAY 2 of 3
Proceedings recorded by mechanical stenography, transcribed by computer.
2 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (Proceedings commenced at 9:00 a.m.) THE COURT: Okay. Well, we laid down our ground Jury's all here, I
rules, I think, while we were in chambers. understand, so let's bring them in. COURT SECURITY OFFICER: Yes, sir.
(The jury entered the courtroom at 9:18 a.m.) THE COURT: Good morning again. Thank you for coming
in again and being on time.
We were discussing some matters I apologize
in chambers that will actually speed things up. for being a few minutes late.
The weather report is for some heavy snow Friday morning so we're going to try to finish tomorrow. To do that,
we may have to go a little later today, but the attorneys have told me they'll cooperate. They want to get finished, too.
As you know, sometimes people, when we have snow in this area, people have trouble getting in, getting out of their street and that sort of thing. possibly can. Toward that end, let's get started. plaintiff was on the stand. I think the You've been So we'll try to finish tomorrow if we
Come around, ma'am.
sworn yesterday and you're still under oath. cross. MS. MATTINGLY: THE COURT:
You may start
Thank you, Your Honor.
You may ask.
Jones - Cross 3 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Q. A. Q. witness? THE COURT: Yes, that's fine. BY MS. MATTINGLY: Q. A. Q. A. Q. Good morning, Ms. Jones. Good morning. How are you? I'm good. Thank you. CROSS-EXAMINATION
I want to begin by talking about some things that I'm going
occurred during your time as a Ben-Gal cheerleader.
to show you a document that we've premarked as Defendant's Exhibit A. MS. MATTINGLY: Your Honor, may I approach the
Ms. Jones, does this document look familiar? Yes, ma'am. Is it a fair and accurate copy of the rules by which you
were bound while a Ben-Gal cheerleader? A. Yes, ma'am. MS. MATTINGLY: Defendant's Exhibit A. THE COURT: MR. DETERS: THE COURT: All right. No objection. All right. Let it be admitted. Your Honor, I move to admit this as
(Defendant's Exhibit A admitted into evidence.) Now, according to these rules, Ben-Gal cheerleaders are
Jones - Cross 4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 role models in the community, correct? A. Q. Correct. And many of these rules address requirements regarding
personal appearance; is that correct? A. Q. Correct. Okay. Now, as part of your role, you even had what is
referred to as a glamour evaluation; is that correct? A. Q. Correct. Now, isn't that because as a Ben-Gal cheerleader, you're
in the spotlight at games and other public events? A. Not necessarily because we're in the spotlight. Because
we are -- we're supposed to just be held accountable for the way we look, as far as an NFL cheerleader. Q. Okay. Would you dispute that you're in the spotlight as
a Ben-Gal cheerleader? A. We're on the field, but as far as being in the spotlight, The only time
a lot of people don't notice us on the field.
that -- and we're out in the community a lot, but not necessarily in the spotlight. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Okay. And nobody knows my name as far as a Ben-Gal cheerleader. Okay. Okay. According to these rules, you were even allowed to do We'll get into that a little bit later.
paid appearances, provided you did so many charity events; is
Jones - Cross 5 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that correct? A. The coaches -- it's pretty much up to the coach. So if
you do a lot of charity events -- like, we have maybe 10 to 20 each month that we allot to each girl. the team. There's 30 girls on
And depending on if you volunteer for those, it's
pretty much up to the coach to say, hey, you've done this many charity events, you pretty much deserve a paid appearance, because we only got $75 a game. So it was kind of like your reward for getting out in the community and doing stuff like that. open to anybody. So it wasn't necessarily
The coach would have to select whoever
received a paid appearance. Q. Okay. But there were events where you could go and
receive payment just for appearing in your role as a Ben-Gal cheerleader; is that correct? A. You had to be selected; but, yeah, there were times when
you could get up to $50 for a charity event, something like that that was a paid appearance for somebody asking the Ben-Gals to be there. Q. But it was very rare.
And were you ever chosen for any of those paid
appearances? A. Over the time, I was the captain so I was also in charge
of choreography, so a lot of my time that I spent was on the choreography and stuff like that, kind of in the stadium working on dances and stuff. So I was chosen for a few, but
Jones - Cross 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. witness? THE COURT: Yes. not many. Q. Okay. And you also participated in fashion shows in your
role as a Ben-Gal cheerleader; is that correct? A. Not fashion shows. There was one time, one instance, We are kind of a
when Cincinnati Tan, they were our sponsor. separate entity from the Bengals.
Although we are with the
Bengal organization, we are in charge of all of our own clothing. We come up with all of our money to do all that. So
And a lot of that's from the proceeds from the calendar. things like that. Cincinnati Tan was our sponsor, and they had asked, I
believe, five to eight girls to come and do a fashion show, which it wasn't really a fashion show. lot. It was in a parking
And it was a designer of a bathing suit that was a local
designer, and she gave us each two outfits to wear, and we were just supposed to walk around in the parking lot, and like 25 people were there. So that was the only fashion show that
I had ever done with the Bengals. Q. Okay. MS. MATTINGLY: Your Honor, may I approach the
Sarah, I'm going to show you what's been premarked as Do you recognize this document?
Defendant's Exhibit B. A. Yes.
That's from the Cincinnati Tan fashion show.
Jones - Cross 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. witness? THE COURT: permission. You may. You can have blanket Q. Q. A. Q. Okay. Yes. Okay. MS. MATTINGLY: Defendant's Exhibit B. MR. DETERS: THE COURT: No objection. Let it be admitted. Your Honor, I move to admit this as And is this a fair and accurate depiction of you?
(Defendant's Exhibit B admitted into evidence.) Okay. You were also chosen to go to Germany, Iraq, and
Kuwait on behalf of the Ben-Gals; is that correct? A. My flight stopped in Germany, but I wasn't in Germany.
It was a -- we went from Cincinnati to New Jersey, from New Jersey to Germany, Germany to Kuwait. We did stop in So I
Kuwait, and then we flew on a C130 from Kuwait to Iraq. was only in Kuwait in a flight. Q. A. And that was part of a USO tour; is that correct? Yes, ma'am. MS. MATTINGLY: Your Honor, may I approach the
You don't have to ask it. Thank you, Your Honor. And do you
And this is marked as Defendant's Exhibit C.
recognize these documents? A. Yes, ma'am.
Jones - Cross 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 there. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Are these fair and accurate depictions of you? Yes, ma'am. And these are photos from that trip; is that correct? Yes, ma'am. MS. MATTINGLY: Defendant's Exhibit C. MR. DETERS: THE COURT: No objection. Let it be admitted. Your Honor, I move to admit these as
(Defendant's Exhibit C admitted into evidence.) And can you just describe for the jury -- I'm going to You can just tell them what they
put each one on the screen. are. THE COURT:
You have it sideways, upside down. I know. I'm trying to rotate it
MS. MATTINGLY: There we go.
This is the morning that we were taking off from This is in the Cincinnati Airport. And there
were -- yeah, there were eight girls selected so I was counting them. There were eight girls selected to go on the And
trip for ten days -- I believe it was ten to eleven days. that is on our day that we were taking off for New Jersey. Q. A. Q. And is that you kind of in the middle to the left? Yes. Okay. I'm the fourth one. Here's the next one. I'm in the middle. And this has to be either
Kuwait or -- it's Kuwait, isn't it?
Jones - Cross 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Yes, ma'am, this is Kuwait. We had a flight, like I
said, from New Jersey to Germany and then Germany to Kuwait. And it was -- and that whole flight, I believe, took 29 hours, and we had just landed. Kuwait. Q. And you're in the front row near the right; is that This is like 5:00 in the morning in
correct? A. Q. A. Yes, ma'am. Okay. Yes. Can you tell us a little bit about this one? This was in one of the places that we visited as And
far as one of the groups that we -- groups of soldiers.
we visited -- like I said, we started off in Kuwait, and we visited different bunkers and met with soldiers, some soldiers that hadn't had visitors in six months. those. And this is one of
And I believe this was on maybe the second-to-last day
that I was there. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Okay. And you're in the front --
Yes, ma'am. -- in the middle, correct? Yes. And these were all in 2011, January 2011? January, 2011. Okay. I left on January 18th.
And a little bit about this one, please? This is still
This one was one of my second days there.
in Kuwait, before we had taken off on a C130, and they were
Jones - Cross 10 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 showing us different helicopters. And we were -- we had to
ride in Blackhawks for transportation for security purposes at that time, and this is one of -- we didn't actually ride in a helicopter, but that was -- we just took a picture in front of it. And I am, I believe, bent down in front. Sorry. We all
have sunglasses on. Q. Okay.
I'm bent down in front, I believe. Can you tell us about this
And here's one final.
one, please? A. Yes. This is at one of the bases, and he's one of the And at each base that we stopped at, since we were
doing community service for the soldiers, they presented us with a certificate of -- for basically doing the charity work and coming and visiting the soldiers with it being in such a dangerous place. Q. Okay. Now, as a Ben-Gal, you also had a biography posted
on the Bengals web site, which was www.Bengals.com, correct? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. I'm going to approach with what's been premarked as
Defendant's Exhibit D. A. Q. A. Q. Thank you. Now, does this document look familiar? Yes, ma'am. Is this a fair and accurate depiction of your biography
that appeared on the Bengals web site? A. For one of the years, yes, ma'am.
Jones - Cross 11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. MS. MATTINGLY: Okay. Your Honor, I move to admit
this as Defendant's Exhibit D. THE COURT: MR. DETERS: Let it be admitted. No objection.
(Defendant's Exhibit D admitted into evidence.) And did you submit the answers for these questions? Yes, ma'am. Okay. I don't know if the jury will be able to see this
I'll try to zoom in.
Please read your answer to the question that says the most memorable Ben-Gal moment. A. "Most memorable Ben-Gal moment: Cheering in Miami for
the 2010 Pro Bowl, being named side captain in 2009, and getting the cover of the swim suit calendar in 2007." Q. Okay. So not only were you a Ben-Gal cheerleader, but
you were also the captain, correct? A. For -- not for -- I was there for six seasons, so I
wasn't the captain for all those years, but I was selected side captain in 2009, and then I was selected as -- right before we went to Iraq, I was selected as high captain. so that would have been 2010-2011. Q. Okay. And you were chosen to be on the cover of the And
Ben-Gals cheerleader -- or calendar, correct? A. Q. Yes, my second season with the Ben-Gals. And you appeared in the calendar in other years as well,
Jones - Cross 12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. correct? A. Yes, ma'am. That's part of the -- like I said, that's
our -- because we're a separate entity for the Bengals, we have to raise our own money for our uniforms. We pay for all
of our own uniforms, all of our music and choreography, cutting the music. cheerleaders only. All that stuff is generated by the We don't get money from the Bengals. So
in order to do that, we have to do a calendar that we shoot in either June, July, or August, and then it gets released in September. Q. And these are sold to the public, then, to generate those
funds, correct? A. Q. Yes. Okay. They're sold for $10 apiece. I'm going to approach you with these calendars Do you
that have been premarked as Defendant's Exhibit E. recognize these? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. Okay.
Are these fair and accurate depictions of those
calendars for each of the years? A. I sent them to you. MS. MATTINGLY: Defendant's Exhibit E. THE COURT: Let them be admitted. Yes. Your Honor, I move to admit these as
(Defendant's Exhibit E admitted into evidence.) I won't be able to put these on the screen so I'll just
Jones - Cross 13 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 show the jurors. A. That was the year that I was -- that's 2007, the year
that I was selected as the cover of the calendar, which was my second year. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. And this is another one, correct? Yes, ma'am. Yes. I believe it was maybe January?
And here you are January again?
January, um-hmm. Okay. And this is November? That was my last season with the Bengals.
So this would have been around 2011?
That was, yes, 2011, and the shoot was in June. Okay. And several of these you autographed; is that
correct? A. They're signed, yeah. We would do -- like we would sign And, as I
some of them before we sold them, for the pro shop. said, they're sold for $10.
And that money, we get $7 of the
money back, and then the pro shop, I believe, makes $3 off of them, or maybe the opposite way. don't know. I'm not exactly sure. I
But, as I said, that money comes back to us where
we can pay for our uniforms. Q. Okay. And I think you previously testified that you were
chosen out of all the other Ben-Gal cheerleaders to go to the Pro Bowl in Miami, Florida in 2010; is that correct? A. Yeah. 2010, we didn't have a contract with Hawaii, I
Jones - Cross 14 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. believe, so that was the only year that they sent girls to Miami. But I was selected in December of 2009 to go to the
Pro Bowl. Q. And a poster was made of all the Pro Bowl cheerleaders;
is that correct? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. I'm going to approach you with what's been marked as Is that a fair and accurate depiction
Defendant's Exhibit F. of the poster? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. Okay. MS. MATTINGLY: Defendant's Exhibit F. THE COURT:
Your Honor, I move to admit this as
Let it be admitted.
(Defendant's Exhibit F admitted into evidence.) This is going to be kind of hard to put up on the screen You are --
as well. A. Q. A. Q.
Close to the middle. -- right here; is that correct? Yes, ma'am. Okay. Right here in the middle.
Now, during that week, you had some public appearances, including radio appearances, television appearances, and a fashion show, correct? A. We did several -- there were four different groups;
Jones - Cross 15 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. AFC-1, AFC-2, NFC-1, and NFC-2. So we all didn't do each
appearance, but we were selected to -- like one group would wake up at 5:00 in the morning and go do this while the other group went to another appearance. So there were several
things, but we didn't get to do all of those. Q. But you did participate in some of those; is that
correct? A. Q. Some of them, yes, ma'am. All right. I'm going to approach you with what's been Do you recognize this?
marked as Defendant's Exhibit G. A. Q. A. Yes, ma'am.
Is this a fair and accurate depiction of you? Yes, ma'am. MS. MATTINGLY: Your Honor, I move for this to be
admitted as Defendant's Exhibit G. THE COURT: Let it be admitted.
(Defendant's Exhibit G admitted into evidence.) And this is a photo of you at the Pro Bowl week fashion
show, correct? A. Yes, ma'am. They tried to do something special for us,
since we weren't selected -- since we weren't going to Hawaii and we were staying in Miami, so we did a fashion show and we danced. They made this plastic runway over the pool and we
danced on there to represent our team. Q. Okay. Now, you'll agree with me, won't you, that these
Jones - Cross 16 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 opportunities -- these fashion shows, charity events with professional athletes, and traveling to foreign countries -these are opportunities that not everyone in everyday life has, correct? A. Not everyone, but we went -- we didn't do many things as
far as with professional athletes. Q. But you did -- you will agree with me that you did things
that, if you were just in your role as a teacher, you wouldn't have been able to do these things, correct? A. Not necessarily. I mean, anybody is able to do charity
But to go to Iraq and perform for troops, that would
be limited to a select amount of people. Q. Okay. Now, I want to talk a little bit about the
postings on my client's web site. A. Q. Okay. You -- do you have any personal knowledge that Nik Richie That he wrote any of them about
did any of the following: you? A. Q. A.
The actual postings or comments along with the postings? The actual postings. I have no knowledge as to who wrote them, so I couldn't
say if he did or did not. Q. Do you have any personal knowledge as to whether he paid
anyone to write those about you? A. I have no personal knowledge.
Jones - Cross 17 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Asked anyone to write them about you? Not that I know of. Or changed anything that anyone else submitted about you? I don't know who posted it so I don't know what the
original would have looked like, if it was changed. Q. Okay. And you previously admitted that at least some of
these photos were from you, that were posted to your Facebook page, correct? A. The two that contained the defamatory posts are not from The ones after, after I filed the lawsuit, where
they were -- it was where The Dirty Army had the war mentality and they kept posting me, those pictures were from my Facebook. But the original two with the defamatory statements
are public pictures that anybody could have had access to. Q. Okay. And with respect to some of them that were
admitted, the ones that you were talking about, you testified that whoever did this was a Facebook friend, correct? A. Q. A. Q. Whoever did the following posts, yes. Okay. But not necessarily the original two. Okay. And you've testified about some of the so-called
mean comments about you that appeared in the Comments section of my client's web site. You'll agree with me that you've
been written about on other web sites as well, other news media and whatnot, correct?
Jones - Cross 18 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Before February, 2011? No, at any time. I've been posted on different web sites based off of the But as far as thedirty.com, I've never seen
any negative comments on other sites about myself. Q. Okay. But since then, have you seen comments about
yourself, comments that you considered to be mean -A. Q. A. Q. Yes, ma'am. -- on other web sites? Yes, ma'am. After your "Anderson Cooper" appearance, did you look at
his web site and see any of the comments that appeared on there? A. Q. No, ma'am. Okay. Would it surprise you to find out that there were
comments there that said mean things about you as well? A. Everybody has their own opinion, so if somebody were to
make comments, they're not always in favor of me or always against me, you know, or against me. So it wouldn't surprise
me if there were any comments on there. Q. Okay. Now, in one of the posts for which you are suing,
the post says, quote, "Nate has tested positive for both chlamydia infection and gonorrhea so I'm sure Sarah also has both," end quote. A. Um-hmm.
Jones - Cross 19 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. Do you remember that posting? Yes, ma'am. Okay. Now, first of all, this doesn't really say that I mean, isn't this just an inference
you have STDs, does it?
that if Nate has STDs, then most likely you do as well? A. Q. No, ma'am, I did not take it that way. Okay. Do you believe it could be taken that way by some
people? A. I can't tell you what other people would take it as. I
can only tell you what I can take it as.
And with him saying
that Nathan has tested positive for STDs, that is a factual statement by saying he has two STDs; and by saying "I'm sure" means that they're positive, that they are sure that I have them as well -Q. A. as. Q. So you don't see any difference if that phrase was left Okay. -- because I had had sex with him. That's what I took it
out, the "I'm sure"? A. Q. No, ma'am. Okay. And you previously admitted, under oath, that you
have no firsthand knowledge as to whether or not Nathan Wilburn has been diagnosed with chlamydia or gonorrhea, correct? A. I have only told you that he has told me that he has
Jones - Cross 20 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 been -- that he has been tested and that he did not have two STDs. Q. And you'll agree with me that it is possible that he lied
to you, correct? A. Nathan has a track record of not being honest so he could
lie about that; but as again, I can only go off based what he told me, and that is that he was tested and that he didn't -he was not -- I actually heard a voice mail from the doctor, but I don't know of -- you know, they didn't go into detail. They just said, Give us a call. Q. Okay. And you didn't -- you didn't go to those
appointments with him? A. Q. No, ma'am. Okay. And you can't verify the accuracy of anything
about that? A. Q. No, ma'am. I'm going to approach you with what's been premarked as Ms. Jones, are these documents fair
Defendant's Exhibit H.
and accurate depictions of some of the medical records of yours? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. Okay. MS. MATTINGLY: Defendant's Exhibit H. THE COURT: Any objection? Your Honor, I move to admit these as
Jones - Cross 21 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. MR. DETERS: THE COURT: No. Let it be admitted.
(Defendant's Exhibit H admitted into evidence.) Now, this first one from 2007, it shows that you were
concerned about STDs and STD exposure, correct? A. Q. A. I had -- if you see on the second page, it says -Let's look at the first one first, please. Oh, yeah. Okay. But the reason I had went, I had gone
every time since I was 18, and I had found out that he was cheating, and that is why I was going to get checked for STDs anyway, because I got checked every year. Q. Okay. And specifically down here, the 9 -- I don't know
if it's a 2 or a 12 -- '07, this right here says, "Concerned about STD," correct? A. Just based off because I had been sexually active with
him one time and he had cheated. Q. A. Okay. And it says "STD exposure" right here, correct?
Well, that's not -- I wasn't saying I had an STD, if
that's what you mean. Q. I'm just asking you if that's what it says. Is that
correct? A. That's what the document says, but -THE COURT REPORTER: Okay. But I have the test down from this; and that as well, Please speak one at a time.
Jones - Cross 22 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that shows that they tested me for chlamydia and gonorrhea and they both showed negative. Q. Okay. And the medical records that we have from you, We didn't
those were provided by you or your lawyer, correct? get them directly from any facility; is that correct? A. Q. A. Q. Correct. And we only have what you gave us, right? I would assume, yes. Okay.
And we don't have any records for you for the year
2008; is that correct? A. Q. I'm not sure. Okay. Do you have any knowledge that you have given us
any records from 2008? A. I have given you every time I've gone to the doctor
regarding a gynecological appointment. Q. Okay. And all I'm asking is, do you have any knowledge
that you have given us any records from the year 2008? A. Q. No. Okay. Now, regarding the STD test that you said you had,
you would agree with me that a negative test one year and a negative test in a later year, that doesn't necessarily mean that a person didn't contract an STD between those two dates, received treatment, and then the records -- if you received treatment from another facility, those records wouldn't reflect that you had an STD; is that correct?
Jones - Cross 23 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. I've given you every record that I've ever gone to the
doctor for regarding an appointment about that, and I -- you can't just -- chlamydia and gonorrhea, you can't just let it go and hope that it goes away. And I have never been treated. You have to be treated for it. I have never had medicine
given to me to treat an STD, and I have all my gynecological records from year to year that prove -- that show negative for chlamydia, negative for gonorrhea, every STD test negative. Q. And I understand that's what you've told us and you've
testified to that -A. Q. Yes, ma'am. -- but that wasn't my question. I'm asking if you have
records from a certain clinic for one year and another year, that doesn't mean that you couldn't have contracted an STD during that time, gone to a separate clinic, received treatment so that it went away, so the subsequent year it would not show up in that record; is that correct? possibility that that could happen to a person? A. Q. A. Q. To a person, yes. Okay. But to me, no. Okay. And, in fact, you have been diagnosed with Is that a
hepatitis A, correct? A. Q. Yes. Could I tell you -- could I explain that? I want to put up this record. And
Just one second.
Jones - Cross 24 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. that's indicated in Question 15; is that correct? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Yes, ma'am. Okay. Could I explain that? Just one second. Okay. Are you aware that the Center for Disease Control
considers hepatitis A to be an STD? A. Q. A. Q. I'm aware that a type of that could be. Okay. But I'm -Okay. And are you aware that transmissions -Let her finish her answer.
I was just going to say that the way I contracted it,
through an inhaler and food, could not be considered an STD. Q. Okay. Are you aware that the Centers for Disease Control
has stated that hepatitis A may result from sexual activity that occurs because of fecal oral contact? A. Q. I am not aware what the Center of Disease Control says. Okay. And Ms. Jones, have you ever engaged in fecal oral
contact during sexual activity which may occur through oral anal sex? A. Q. No. Okay. MS. MATTINGLY: Your Honor, may we approach, please?
Jones - Cross 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 does. THE COURT: after the deadline. MR. DETERS: Thank you. She answered that she didn't. This is messages. MR. DETERS: That she had oral anal sex. As we had discussed yesterday, she THE COURT: THE COURT: Yes, go ahead. (Bench conference.) It's not working. All right. Well,
let's try to keep your voice at a level I can hear it but the jury can't. What's up? I wanted to ask her about these text
has now denied on the record that she has ever engaged in these acts. These text messages reflect that she intended to
do so; and therefore, it's reasonable to assume that she did so. you. MR. DETERS: Intended to. No proof that she ever She and Cody discussed, this is what I'm going to do to
(Bench conference concluded.) THE COURT: BY MS. MATTINGLY: Q. Now, Ms. Jones, as we sit here today, you are a convicted Objection sustained. You may continue.
felon, correct? A. Correct. I have pled guilty to a felony that's going to
Jones - Cross 26 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 be diverted, yes, ma'am. Q. Okay. I'm going to show you what's been premarked as
Defendant's Exhibit I. A. Now, before we get to this, do I get to answer the
hepatitis A question or no? Q. A. Q. I'm going to move on to this line of questioning. Okay. Now, in this document -- can you tell us what it is,
first of all? A. Yes, ma'am. I went through a criminal case, and I was
offered a plea deal the Friday before the trial, and this is -- these are the documents that the prosecutor and my attorney and myself sat down and came up with. Q. Okay. MS. MATTINGLY: Defendant's Exhibit I. THE COURT: Very well. Your Honor, I move to admit this as
(Defendant's Exhibit I admitted into evidence.) THE COURT: Ladies and gentlemen, this evidence goes It's limited to that
to the credibility of the witness. purpose. BY MS. MATTINGLY: Q.
And you'll admit that this document states that as of
today, you are a convicted felon until or unless you meet the requirements for the diversion program, correct?
Jones - Cross 27 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. As far as I know, it's not on my record. Like if
somebody were to do a background check, it would not be on my record because it is a diverted felony. So I am a convicted
felon, but if you were to check my record, then it will not show up as a felony. Q. A. Q. Okay. I just will have a misdemeanor on there. But you're not disputing that you are a convicted felon,
correct? A. Q. Yes, that's correct. Specifically, you were convicted of custodial
interference, a felony, correct? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. Okay. And you testified yesterday that you did not lure
Cody with any text messages, correct? A. Q. Correct. Okay. But you'll admit that you did exchange text
messages with Cody that were very sexually explicit and steamy, correct? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. Now, as part of your plea agreement, you've agreed that
you will never apply for or accept any teaching or coaching position at any school ever again, correct? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. Okay. Now, Ms. Jones, you've made a point to tell us
Jones - Cross 28 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that Cody was not your student at the time of the sexual relationship, correct? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. But before it became public knowledge that you were in a
relationship, you and Cody were trying to arrange for him to become your aide, correct, your teacher's aide? A. Q. He was my peer tutor his junior year, yes, ma'am. Okay. And this is at the time of the relationship,
correct? A. He was not my peer tutor at the time of the sexual
relationship, no, ma'am. Q. Okay. Do you deny that you were trying to find a way to
conceal it within the school administration? A. I deny that. There were -- there is -- how peer tutoring
works is you have to sign off -- the student has to get permission from the teacher. And I had, I would say, a good
10 to 20 students asking me to be their peer tutor, and I had about 10 peer tutors; and Cody is one of those that came and I signed his to be my peer tutor. And in order to give them
permission, you have to send e-mails to their counsellor to let them know that you would like to have them as your peer tutor. So yes, I did sent an e-mail to his counsellor, but I
also sent an e-mail to nine other student counsellors to request them to be my peer tutor as well. Q. Okay. And who is Tibbs?
Jones - Cross 29 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Mr. Tibbs? It just says Tibbs. I don't know who that is. He was the principal. He
Mr. Tibbs was Mr. Larry Tibbs.
was the assistant principal for my first three years of teaching, and then he was moved to principal my fourth year. Q. Okay. So November 15th, 2011, at that time, you had
already engaged in a sexual relationship with Cody, correct? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. Okay. Do you deny that you said to Cody, quote, "Tibbs You're my aide now and I can't get in
will never know. trouble. A.
I was so excited to come tell you"?
If it's in the text messages, then, yes, ma'am, I admit
that I said that. Q. Okay. But you just told us that at no point during the
time of your sexual relationship was Cody your aide, correct? A. Correct. He -- Morgan had gone to the administration, She didn't
and she basically told them what she had heard.
have any facts, but she had told them what she heard. And Mr. Tibbs called me down in September of 2011, and he said -- he asked me -- at that point in time, he was my aide. From August to September, he was my aide. But then Mr. Tibbs
and I decided that it would be best if Cody was removed from being my peer tutor. So at the time, he was removed So he was not my peer
September 9th, 2011 as my peer tutor. tutor in October and November.
Jones - Cross 30 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. But Ms. Jones, this text message in November of 2011
says, "Tibbs will never know that you're my aide now and I can't get into trouble. I was so excited to come tell you."
How do you reconcile that with your testimony that he was not your aide in two thousand -- in November of 2011? A. Because what -- he had moved -- because of his class
schedule, he had moved to another teacher's aide, so that teacher -- and that was my planning period. Because he was my
aide on planning period, and I had -- another class was using my class so I had to be in the library. And the library --
the librarian was who he got switched to, so he was in the library as well. So by stating that he was technically my
aide meant that he was going to be in the same area as I was going to be during that fifth period. So, yeah, that's correct in which I said that, but he was not -- he was not technically my peer tutor from a school standpoint. Q. Okay. Do you dispute that you told Cody, on
November 17th, 2011, after he got in trouble or got you in trouble for the aide situation, quote, "Our situation was perfect and no one knew about it. You just drew so much And if
attention to the fact that you're technically my aide. Tibbs hears that, I'm" -- and then you use an expletive. A. Yes. He had left -- since he was an aide, he had
baseball after school.
He had gone to his car, and I guess
Jones - Cross 31 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 somebody had seen him, and he -- he didn't get in trouble, but they had called and said where was he supposed to be, and he was supposed to be in the library. And I was the only teacher
in the library at that time to attest to the fact that him and three other students were in there. to come back on me that he left. Q. So you dispute that these text messages that I just So it was basically going
referenced show a scheme by you and Cody to conceal from the school administration that you had set up this system whereby Cody could spend time with you at school? A. No, I agree that we set that up. But you asked me if he
was my peer tutor during November -Q. I said the word "aide," which was actually the word that
you used, and you said no. A. My aide or peer tutor. He was not -- from a school
standpoint, he was not my aide or peer tutor so I answered that question that, yes, he was not at the time. see each other at school during that time? Q. But did we
And you referred to him as technically your aide,
correct? A. Q. In the text messages, yes, ma'am. Okay. Now, in the proffer that's attached to your plea
deal, you admitted that you, quote, "masked or changed phone numbers in an effort to conceal," end quote, communications with Cody York, correct?
Jones - Cross 32 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Yes, ma'am. And you admitted in your proffer that you accused other
students of lying when they outed your relationship, correct? A. Q. A. Q. Yes, ma'am. Okay. I admitted that in the plea deal.
Which was under oath, signed under oath, correct? Yes, ma'am.
Signed under oath, yes. Okay.
So with respect to the one student who outed you,
you even told Cody in a text message, quote, "She can really get in a lot of trouble for this," end quote, and that if she, quote, "does it again, I'm pressing charges on her," end quote? A. Q. A. Yes, ma'am. Okay. Not in reference to her telling on me, but in reference
to what she was doing on Facebook. Q. Okay. Do you dispute that the text messages that
surround that show that you were afraid of getting in trouble with the police and you were afraid that the police were on to you? A. And I can show them to you if you would like. No, ma'am. I was very scared. Yes, ma'am, I agree with
that. Q. Okay. And in the context of these text messages, that's
all that reveals, that, "Oh, I'm scared they're on to me. Morgan can get in a lot of trouble. charges"? I'm going to press
Jones - Cross 33 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. That is taken out of context -Okay. Okay.
-- because they're 30 days of our text messages. Okay. Right. -- right there in that same line of communication. Right. Okay. But you wouldn't have known if there were private -- if I'm just asking about those text messages --
there were other conversations to discuss that issue of Morgan. So I agree that those are -- those are my text
messages, but they are taken out of context because it's such a short, miniscule amount of our time, our communication. Q. So you deny that you considered taking legal action
against someone for accusing you of something that you, in fact, actually did, correct? A. We were discussing the Facebook. So at the time, Morgan She just had posted very
didn't have any factual information.
obscene things on Facebook regarding me, and that is what I was discussing as far as pressing charges, because I did. contacted the administrator. I
I contacted -- I discussed it
with my mom; what are my actions here if she continues to post on Facebook. Q. Okay. And that would be documented.
I would like for you to read this exchange, then,
to the jury, so that they can get the context that's present
Jones - Cross 34 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 2011. here in these text messages. MR. DETERS: that before it's read. approach, Your Honor? THE COURT: last time. (Bench conference.) MS. MATTINGLY: referring to, Your Honor. THE COURT: cumulative. MR. DETERS: It has nothing to do with credibility. Some of these But this here, Okay. Well, it sounds like it's This bracketed part is what I'm Come around and do it the way we had the Your Honor, I would like to be shown (Reviewing document.) Can we
And I'm choosing this fine line not to object. things she's getting over to whether she lied.
she admitted that she was mad about that, the context, so that statement right there has nothing to do with credibility. It
just happened to do with her wanting to kick somebody's ass. MS. MATTINGLY: No, we can leave the "kick ass" part
out if you want, Your Honor. MR. DETERS: That has nothing to do with the
credibility issue, and it's after the February, 2011 date. MS. MATTINGLY: THE COURT: Well, respectfully --
All of these are after the February, I think it shows
This is on the credibility issue.
that she was engaged in a -- conspiracy might be too strong a
Jones - Cross 35 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 her." "Surely. I guess they still are." A. BY MS. MATTINGLY: Q. Ms. Jones, beginning with "can you text me," I'd like for word, but some kind of a plan to keep this relationship from being found out, so I would admit it. MS. MATTINGLY: Can we read the entire portion? If
there's anything you don't want her to read, I'll leave it out. THE COURT: You can read it all. Thank you, Your Honor.
(Bench conference concluded.)
you to read until this red line right here. A. Q. A. Q. A. You want me to read the red as well? Yes, we'll need that. Should I just read my text messages or our text messages? I would like the whole conversation, please. "Kim text me and said they haven't found anything yet and Is that included?
it" -THE COURT REPORTER: Yes, ma'am. Please read a little slower.
"Kim text me and said they haven't found And my
anything yet and it should be over today, hopefully.
mom said she's going to beat her ass so Griffin doesn't have to." "Are they trying to find something still? And haha. Get
Jones - Cross 36 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. "How? "Yeah." "And what was said?" "Nothing new. anything. her." "Good. Do it. Thank you." This will be finalized and they won't find Did Kim talk to them?"
If Morgan does this again, I'm pressing charges on
And who is Kim? Kim is the former principal of Dixie. Okay. So she would have been considered school
administration for Kenton County, correct? A. That year, she was at -- she was with Kenton County. So
she was the previous principal, but she was in the school district. Q. Okay. And so you were having this conversation with Cody
about what Kim was looking into, correct? A. We had known that the police were contacted. I'm not
exactly sure what date that is. that was? Q. A. Yes.
Could you tell me what date
It was November 21st, 2011.
I was informed November 18th that the police were And I had
involved; and so at that time, I did know.
contacted -- I had discussed it with my mom, saying that the police are involved. but I contacted her. Again, my mom didn't know any details,
Jones - Cross 37 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 And Kim is also one of my mom's friends, so I was able to discuss this with them and see if the police were involved. And at that point in time, November 29th, I was told that the police investigation was over, so that's what I thought. Q. Okay. Now, the proffer that's attached to your plea
agreement, it also states that your romantic relationship with Cody York began in February of 2011, correct? A. No, ma'am. It just says that this relationship began in It does not say romantic.
February, 2011. Q. A. Okay.
What relationship began in February of 2011 then?
When we were sitting down with the prosecutor, they
originally had said that they would go with October, 2011, but we had to come up with a date that we both agreed with. February, 2011 is when we started texting. I was going -- as I said before, Nathan and I were going through a lot of issues so -- invitations, everything had been sent out; but I had found out that he was still currently on cocaine, and I had discussed a lot more closely with Cody on that because he could -- he has had -- his older brother was into drugs, so he was my support system. there. So the we -- the prosecutor, my attorney, and myself -sat down, and we all came up with -- they originally had "romantic" in there, but we said -- I said I cannot put romantic relationship in there if it's February, 2011 because So we did talk in And
Jones - Cross 38 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 it was not romantic until October, 2011. Q. But you previously testified that you knew Cody York for
years, correct? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. Okay. So to say that just a general relationship began
in February, 2011, that wouldn't be accurate either, correct? A. Q. A. Q. A. The pros -- correct. Okay. The prosecutor came up with this -Okay. -- and said is this something that you're willing to say; And I agreed that I could do that,
are all these things true?
and we just changed the date. Q. Okay. So under oath, you have agreed that your
relationship with Cody York began in February of 2011, correct? A. Q. A relationship, yes, ma'am. And at that time, you were engaged to Nathan Wilburn,
correct? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. And you later married Nathan Wilburn in the summer of
2011, correct? A. Q. Yes, July. Now, your romantic relationship with Cody actually goes
back a lot farther than 2011, despite what you've told the
Jones - Cross 39 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 jury, correct? A. Q. No, ma'am. Okay. You deny that you told Cody in November of 2011
that you, quote, "fell in love with him a long time ago," end quote, and that you loved him when you went to Iraq? A. I -- I'm not denying that I said that because if it's in
the text messages, ma'am, I said that. Q. A. Okay. And when did you go to Iraq again? It was January, I
I went to Iraq at the end of January.
believe, January 18th through -- I got back in February maybe. Q. And that was -- so obviously, that was before the date
listed in your proffer, correct? A. Q. That was -- yes, ma'am. Okay. Did you also tell Cody that you, quote, "knew from
the moment I saw you I was going to be with you your freshman year. A. Q. A. I knew from Day 1 that we'd be together," end quote?
Yes, ma'am, I said that in my text messages. Okay. And what year was his freshman year?
It was my first year of teaching, which would have been
2008. Q. And that was before anything was ever posted about you on
thedirty.com, correct? A. Correct. But again, those are my text messages; and, And at that point
like I said, that's a short amount of time. in time, we were in a relationship.
We were seeing each
Jones - Cross 40 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 other. And right or wrong -- absolutely wrong -- we were And when you're in a relationship,
still seeing each other.
when you say, oh, I was in love with you at first sight, we're taking that a little too literal here. When I first saw Cody, it was a long time ago, since I've known his family for so long. at first sight? No. So did I fall in love with him
But in a relationship, when Cody and I
have discussed things, he'll say, "Oh, you know, I was in love with you at first site. world." You're the most beautiful girl in the
Well, just because he thinks I'm beautiful doesn't It's all
mean that I'm the most beautiful girl in the world. out of perception and how you are talking about the relationship.
So, you know, those text messages are messages that were between Cody and I, and did I think the world was going to get to see those? No, I did not. They were wrong that I sent But did I fall in
them, but I still -- yes, I did say that. love with him when he was a freshman? Q. Okay.
No, ma'am, I did not.
But you keep talking about -- you use the phrase, We're talking about the
"We're taking things too literally."
face of what's on these text messages, correct? A. Q. A. Yes, ma'am. Okay. And this is actually what they say, correct? When you say, I told you
Yes, but it's also a hyperbole.
a million times, it doesn't mean I told you a million times.
Jones - Cross 41 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 It just means that I told you a lot. So that's what I mean by We're taking it --
saying that we're taking it literally.
when I say, "I've been in love with you from the first day I met you," that is not a literal term. exaggeration in a relationship. Q. Okay. It's interesting that you say that because with That is a -- it's an
respect to the posts on my client's web site, you want us to read those literally and on their face, without any kind of interpretation; but with respect to your own words, you want us to kind of look around things and read them differently than how they are on their face, correct? A. I can't tell you what those people meant by that. I can
just take it how I perceived it, just as how you're perceiving my text messages. Q. Okay. And if we read them on their face, they say you
fell in love with him his freshman year, correct? A. Q. A. Q. Correct. Okay. Yes, ma'am. And you said to him, quote, "May be weird, though,
because you were so young, but you can't help who you love. I've always wanted you, Cody." A. Q. Yes, ma'am. Okay. Did you say that?
If it's in the text messages, I said it.
And you said, quote, "It's weird because you were
like 14 and I was like 22," end quote, correct?
Jones - Cross 42 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. I said that if it's in the text messages, yes. Okay. But again, I -- and again, I'm not happy -- I'm not proud But
of myself for sending messages to a student at the time.
again, in my line, it wasn't a student-teacher relationship. I knew that I was going to be with him after the fact, which I'm still currently in a relationship with him. love with him. We are in a normal relationship that both of our parents are accepting of, and it -- those text messages are such a small amount from what you're seeing of a relationship. a 30-day time period. It's I'll still in
Again, I did send those messages, not So if
necessarily proud of it, but I -- those are my words.
you keep saying did I say it, if it's in the text messages, yes, ma'am, I said it. Q. Okay. And I'm just asking if that's what they say on
their face -A. Q. A. Q. Right. -- correct? Right. Now, did you deny, then, the text messages, you spoke to
Cody about the fact that you two would flirt when he was a freshman in your class? A. Q. Do you deny that they say that?
I don't deny that they say that. Okay. Now, this flirting would obviously have taken
Jones - Cross 43 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 place at school, correct? A. Not necessarily. As I told you before, our families have
been friends. Q. Okay.
We would go out to dinner together.
Now, in November -- the important date that you've
given us is February of 2011, correct? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. Okay. So in November of 2011, do you deny that you told That's
Cody you'd, quote, "been together for like a year. insane," end quote? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. It says "like a year." Okay. Which means that it's not specifically a year. Okay. Okay. Well, let's get to that.
You then said, quote, "Technically, we've been living a Not "like a year." "A year," end quote,
lie for a year." correct? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. Okay.
Yes, I said that.
And, quote, "We have to sneak around to see each
other, and we have to pretend to be single when we're in a serious, committed relationship," end quote? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. Okay. Now, did you deny that you told him that you
missed him the summer after his freshman year and that you've, quote, "known since Day 1 we were meant to be," end quote?
Jones - Cross 44 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. I don't deny that I said that. Okay. But again, I didn't just see him at school. We would see
each other at family events. Q. Okay. All right. Well, let's talk about something that
happened at school.
You told him that the last day after the
bell, during his freshman year, that you hugged him, you took a photo together, and you, quote, "had never felt that way" end quote. A. Q. Did you deny that you said that?
No, ma'am. Okay. And that would have been at school, correct, the
photo and the hug? A. Q. A. Yeah. Okay. That was not -- Cody was not the only student that came. A lot of the students
You know, I was a 22-year-old teacher. felt comfortable with me in my room.
Honestly, I had more
girls in my room more than guys, so I was taking pictures with several girls. It's the last day of school when you sign So Cody would not have
yearbooks and things of that nature. been the only person. Q. Okay.
Well, was Cody the only person that you had,
quote, "had never felt that way," end quote, about? A. Q. No. Okay. I mean, I said that in the text messages. Okay. And you said that you felt ashamed that you
Jones - Cross 45 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 could like him when he was a freshman; is that correct? A. Yes. I -- I know I sent all those messages. I sent them. Again, I
can't talk my way out of that. Q. A. Q. Okay. And it was wrong. Okay.
And in 2011, didn't you tell him that you're,
quote, "crazy in love with him and have been for years"? A. I said that I was crazy in love with him in November,
2011, yes, ma'am. Q. A. Quote, "and have been for years," end quote? I disagree with that. Yes, I agree that I said it, but I That was just a
have not been in love with him for years. term. Q. Okay.
Now, when the criminal investigation was going on,
you started taking additional steps to conceal your relationship with Cody, didn't you? A. Q. A. When -- after the police had been involved? Just anytime during the criminal investigation. No. They were -- they had questioned me November 29th,
and they had text messages, and I knew that there was nothing else that there was to be found on the relationship. I
believe you're discussing the birthday cards, and they were -Q. A. Q. I can tell you what I'm discussing. Okay. Did you ever instruct Cody to delete text messages, deny
Jones - Cross 46 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 everything, tell his friends to deny it, and, quote, "don't ever tell a soul," end quote? A. Q. I told him that, yes, ma'am. Okay. And didn't you also instruct him to delete Tweets
between the two of you? A. I did. But we had just had a Twitter -- like I had sent I just said happy birthday.
him a -- it was a public Tweet.
But our intentions were -- and I also gave him birthday cards throughout the years with our families. And our intentions
were just to basically get rid of anything that correlated the two of us -Q. A. Q. Okay. -- which is wrong; but, yes, ma'am, I did do that. And you mentioned the birthday cards. You also
instructed him -A. Q. A. Q. Yes, ma'am. -- to destroy birthday cards, correct? Yes, ma'am, Now, you'll admit, Ms. Jones, that you were on pretty I mean, you
friendly terms with students you taught, correct?
talk about hugging them and taking pictures with them, whether they be male or female, correct? A. I had a good relationship with students. I was younger We could talk
so they -- I could identify with them more. about football, you know, at the games.
I was on a different
Jones - Cross 47 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 level with them; but, yes, I still -- I still remained professional in that sense. Q. Okay. And you said that you mentioned that you could
identify with them more; is that what you said? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. Okay. And do you mean more than other teachers could Is that what you were referring to?
identify with them? A. No.
You were just saying that I was friendly with them.
Just because that you're friendly, I mean, I got along with them. I -- I told you I was five through nine, and I was
expected to get middle school level, but I ended up getting a high school -- a high school job. And I just -- identifying
well means that I could kind of -- they would talk to me more about it because I was younger. Q. A. More than who? In general. I would say that the students did enjoy Not necessarily more than other teachers,
being around me.
but they enjoyed being around me. Q. Okay. Do you -- did most of the other teachers hug their
students -A. Q. A. Q. Yes, ma'am. -- and talk to them about gossip and things like that? Yes, ma'am. Okay. I'm going to approach you with something that you
had given to the Court, I believe back in August of 2010,
Jones - Cross 48 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. during this lawsuit. MR. DETERS: I'd like to see it, please. Yes.
Do you recognize that? Yes, ma'am. Now, in this statement, you referred to teaching as your,
quote, "ministry," end quote, didn't you? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. And you've referred to teaching as your, quote,
"passion," end quote; is that correct? A. Q. Yes. Okay. I loved my job. Now, you've told this jury that the things posted
about you on my client's web site were devastating to you because you felt like your students didn't look at you or respect you the same after those postings, correct? A. Q. That was one of the reasons, one of the many reasons. Okay. Now, I want to reconcile that with some other
Now, despite all of that talk about your ministry and
wanting respect from the students, you chose to engage in a romantic and sexual relationship with a student, correct? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. Okay. But do you believe that rumors that you slept with
Bengals players, have STDs, and have sex with your fiance at school are more harmful to your profession, your ministry as you call it, than the truth you were having sex with a
Jones - Cross 49 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 student? A. No, ma'am. MR. DETERS: THE COURT: Objection. May we approach? I
Just make your objection from there.
think I know what it is. MR. DETERS: I object. I don't have any problem with
her making the statement. February, 2011.
My concern is, is it's past
So she's asking her -You need to stick to that timeline, the
timeline that we discussed in chambers. MS. MATTINGLY: I understand, Your Honor. I would
note that there, as we've discussed as evidence, that the romantic relationship predated February, 2011 so -THE COURT: Well, you can ask her that if you want. Okay. Can she answer the question?
She can't answer the question then? MR. DETERS: Your Honor, the question, she was asking
her to compare what hurt her career the most, and that's not the issue in this trial. THE COURT: Right. Ask her -- if you want to ask her
about when the relationship began, ask her when the relationship -MS. MATTINGLY: THE COURT: Cody began. Okay. And we've covered that.
-- when the improper relationship with
Jones - Cross 50 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MS. MATTINGLY: BY MS. MATTINGLY: Q. Now, you told Cody that the criminal investigation was, Okay.
quote, "worse than the web site stuff," end quote, correct? A. I explained to him that if it were to come out that I
was -MR. DETERS: THE COURT: Objection. It's the same, what's worse. I'm going to
This is after the deadline.
be pretty strict about that. MS. MATTINGLY: THE COURT: BY MS. MATTINGLY: Q. Now, you testified yesterday that having sex with Bengals Okay. Cutoff date, I mean.
With both sides.
players was a line that you didn't cross, correct? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. And that's a line that cheerleaders weren't expected to
cross, correct? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. But you've been convicted of a felony for crossing a line
with a student, correct? A. It was a consensual, sexual, romantic relationship that I
am still involved in now that I plan on marrying next year. Q. A. Okay. So, yes, as opposed to sleeping with 50 random people
that I don't know and the one consensual sexual relationship
Jones - Cross 51 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 with somebody that I love, yeah, there's a difference. Q. All right. What was the name of the "Dateline" episode
on which you appeared? A. Q. A. "Dateline"? Um-hmm. They had filmed -- they had followed the story for
months, but it was aired October 19th, I believe. Q. A. Q. Do you know the name of the episode, what it was called? It was called "Crossing the Line." Okay. Now, in this statement that we've talked about,
that you provided to the Court, you talk about the posts and your reaction to them, correct? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. Okay. Now, the first post, I think you testified, was
October, 2009, correct? A. Q. October 27th, 2009. And in this statement, didn't you say that pretty much no
one believed it? A. Well, it had said that I had slept with every single But the
Bengals player and -- it was a broad statement. people that know me knew.
People view cheerleaders very
stereotypically; and I knew that somebody, if they read that, they would think that was true. Again, like I said, I was
teaching 15-year-olds, so if they read it on the Internet, they assumed it to be true. And students even asked me about
Jones - Cross 52 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 it on several occasions; have you really been with all these Bengals players. So they didn't know me personally, but when I said that in my statement that people knew it wasn't true, that means if they knew me personally. My parents knew it wasn't true. My
close friends knew it wasn't true. didn't know it wasn't true. Q.
But the rest of the world
And you took it to the Ben-Gals organization, correct,
and someone told you that they knew this was a "jealous attempt to remove me from the team and supported me fully," correct? A. Yes, ma'am. Charlotte Jacobs is my -- she was my coach
at the time.
And again, she knew me personally so she knew But it still, from an outward
that that wasn't true.
perspective, if that was on the web site, regardless of whether she knows it's true in her heart, she still has a job to do and still needs to keep that organization professional. So I had no idea and she had no idea if I was going to even be able to stay on the team because of what the general public thought that I had done with the Bengals players. Q. But nothing did happen to you with respect to the You stayed with that organization at that
Ben-Gals, correct? time, correct? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. Okay.
In fact, after that post, you were even promoted
Jones - Cross 53 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 to the captain of the Ben-Gals, right? A. Q. A. Q. Was I promoted because of the posts? I'm not asking. I'm just saying --
Promoted afterwards, yes, ma'am. Okay. And also after that, you were chosen to go to the
Pro Bowl on behalf of the Ben-Gals, correct? A. At that point in time, Pro Bowl had already been It just had not been announced. According to my
coach, that she had selected it before the posts had been up, but it wasn't announced until I believe the Kansas City Chiefs game, which would be December 27th. So I didn't know that I
was going to Pro Bowl, but she had selected it far before the postings up on the web site. Q. And this post didn't affect -- several of these posts
didn't affect your ability to attend the Pro Bowl, correct? You were still -A. Q. A. The air -You were able to attend, and you did? They had already had all my airport stuff. So even if
they wanted to jeopardize that, it was -- I was selected and I was sent because everything had already been in the works so -Q. So you think nothing could have affected your ability to
go to the Pro Bowl at that time? A. I'm sure that if they didn't want me to go, absolutely,
Jones - Cross 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 they could have pulled me. Q. Okay. And they wanted you to go. They still wanted you
to go -A. Q. A. Q. To represent --- despite all these things on the Internet, correct? To represent the team, yes, ma'am. Okay. And you even talked about after the second and
third posts, that a lot of people defended you and supported you, correct? A. After the second -- after the previous -- after the And that was after
original posts, he continuously posted me. I filed the lawsuit. the lawsuit. Q. Okay.
So people were in support of me filing
Well, did you say, quote, "In support to me, I had
a plethora of e-mails from my students' parents claiming their support of me in the lawsuit. My students baked me a cake and
signed a card that said how wonderful a teacher I was and that this web site was just an act of jealousy," end quote? all of those things happen? A. Q. A. Q. All of those things happened. Okay. But there were also other things that were very hurtful. Okay. But you said this was in support of you and your Did
lawsuit, correct? A. With having the courage to take -- you know, having the
Jones - Cross 55 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. courage to take on an entire web site that has 800,000 followers, people that get on there, it takes courage to do. Q. Okay. So obviously, if they believed these things about
you, they wouldn't have baked you cakes and sent you e-mails and cards telling you, yeah, go forward with this; we support you, correct? A. On a smaller scale. And I said, the people that knew me
But the general public, the world, did not know
that those things were not true. Q. Okay. But the world in which you mostly doubt, in your You didn't
Ben-Gals organization, it didn't hurt you there. lose your job as a result of this, correct? A.
Well, after I had filed the lawsuit, they -- people So I was getting the
continuously posted other cheerleaders.
brunt of that; that because I filed the lawsuit, everybody was coming down because of me. So I was given a very difficult
time with the cheerleading organization because they felt like they were being posted on there because I had decided to file the lawsuit. Q. A. So --
But you weren't removed from that position, correct? Regardless whether I was removed, several of the girls I mean, I had a
were not happy that I had filed the lawsuit. difficult time. THE COURT: No, ma'am.
The question was, were you removed?
Jones - Cross 56 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. THE COURT: Okay. Ask the next question.
And you were not terminated in your teaching profession
as a result of the things posted on thedirty.com, correct? A. It was discussed; but, no, the end result was that I was I did have to meet with the principal and the
superintendent to discuss if my position -- if I was going to be able to, because they did not think, with me being posted on there, that it was good. And that's when I discussed
yesterday, I had to sit down with each one of my classes, tell them -- read the posts and tell them that I -- in front of 30 kids that I don't have two STDs. Q. Well, obviously, the school believed you though because I mean, they wouldn't let you stand up So they
they let you do this.
in front of your students and lie to them, right? believed you, right? A.
They had to because they were getting so many parent
phone calls and saying, who is teaching our child that is sleeping with all these Bengals players and that has these STDs. Q. So they had to do something about it. But they chose to believe you. Had they not
believed you, they were not going to send you into a room full of students to let you tell them, oh, this is not true, if it was true, correct? A. I don't know what their intentions were; but, yes, ma'am,
I was not terminated for that reason.
Jones - Cross 57 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Okay. Okay. What was your salary at the time?
At the time that -- of what? The postings. 38,000. Okay. 38 or 39. I'm not exactly sure.
Did your salary take any kind of hit as a result of this
web site? A. Q. No, ma'am. Okay. Now, later in your statement, you said this:
Quote, "I had to read the comments about me, stating how ugly and fat I was and how disgusting I was, each time being extremely devastated and crying after I've read it. I would
have to read the comments about Nathan cheating on me with many girls, which hurt me severely emotionally and mentally." Is that correct? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. Okay. And you would agree with me that the part about
Nate cheating on you was true, correct? A. Q. A. Q. Yes, ma'am. Okay. No. Okay. So it sounds like, from reading this statement, And that wasn't confidential, was it?
that the things that you claim are false, the STDs, that no one around you in your immediate circles believed those. You
Jones - Cross 58 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 had support from your friends, your students, and all that. But the stuff that really hurt you were the things that were true, right, the things about Nate? A. No, ma'am. The things -- the most devastating thing to
me was that it said that I had two STDs, and I knew I had never -- I had only been with one person that I was marrying. Again, with -- I had only slept with him with a condom. never been with him without one. I had
So to know that people were
calling me a slut and a whore and those things when I was 23 and I had only been with one person was very devastating to me. Q. But you also said that hearing about Nate cheating on
you, quote, "hurt me severely emotionally and mentally," correct? A. Those were involved in the comments, yes, but the most
devastating was the STD comment. Q. Okay. And you go on a lot about, you know, the things --
the negative things that people were saying about you and the comments about being ugly and fat, which, you know, no one wants to hear that. You know, that's not fun. But you agree
that those are opinions, right? A. Q. A. Correct. You're not trying to hold my -It's defamatory. If anybody can -- if that's the whole
freedom of speech thing, they can say as far as opinionated.
Jones - Cross 59 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 But when they say factual information that I have two STDs, that is unacceptable. Because, you know, not many
27-year-olds can say they have only had sexual intercourse with two people, one of which they married, one of which that they are in love with. Q. Okay. Not many 27-year-olds can say that.
But several times, you've told the jury how it was
hurtful to hear these things, that they were calling you ugly and fat and things like that? A. Q. Yes, ma'am, very hurtful. But just so they understand, you're not contending that
my client should be held liable for that, correct? A. Q. For those comments, no, ma'am. Okay. And you understand that being an NFL cheerleader,
you know, you're out there on the weekends and people see you, correct? A. Q. People -- yeah. I mean, I'm at the games on Sundays.
And, you know, you may be shown on the cameras, the big
screen at the games, or even on TV, correct? A. Q. Very rarely, but yes, ma'am. Okay. And part of that, you know, you're going to have And like we said, you know,
people judge you because of that.
people calling you things that, you know, maybe aren't nice and you don't want to hear, correct? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. Okay. Now, you were interviewed by the Edgewood Police
Jones - Cross 60 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Department on November 29th, 2011, correct? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. Okay. And the officer who interviewed you was named
Officer Inman, correct? A. Q. Yes, Officer Julie Inman. Now, during that interview, did you tell Detective Inman
that you, quote, "won," end quote, this lawsuit? A. Q. I told her that I'd won a default judgment, yes, ma'am. Okay. Isn't that a little bit misleading -- well, you
said you won a lawsuit against my client, you won a lawsuit against Nik Richie? A. I said that I won a default judgment, which, again, we're Winning that default judgment was
basing this off money.
winning to me because, again, why would we publicize something, why would we publicize it if it was going to be damaging? If I would have gone in to the Judge and sat down
and said, I do have this STD, I did sleep with a couple Bengals players, he was not going to award a default judgment. He was only going to do that if I was able to present medical records, I was able to tell him I had only been with one person at that time. judgment. Q. Okay. That is why he gave me a default
So that is winning to me. But you understand that my client was not involved
in that in any capacity whatsoever, correct? A. Again, I never got into the legalities of the issue. I
Jones - Cross 61 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 had my attorney handle that. So I don't know. I, to this
day, cannot explain the whole wrong, who we sued that was wrong. Q. I don't know.
You don't believe that, to this day, you have a judgment
against my client, correct? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Correct. Obviously, we wouldn't be here today if -Correct. -- that were the case, right? Yes. So do you dispute that you told Officer Inman that, you
know, there was this stuff posted about you on this web site and you didn't know why you were there, but you thought it might be related to this lawsuit because you had won a judgment against Nik Richie? A. Do you dispute that?
At that time, whatever I said to Ms. Inman, I was being I was very scared. I didn't know
investigated by the police.
what they were asking me, why I was in there. At that point in time, I had no idea why I was in there. I had been informed that the police were involved, but I didn't know why they had -- why they had called me in there. So whatever I said to her, I said. But I did say that I won a
default judgment against, you know, a web site. Q. Okay. So you were trying to give her an image of
yourself, correct, so that maybe she wouldn't go further with
Jones - Cross 62 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 it or she might, you know, get this image that maybe, you know, you hadn't done whatever you were there to be investigated for; is that correct? A. No, I was just giving her background information on So -- just
things that had happened in the course of my life.
because she didn't know anything about me, I mean, other than what she was investigating. So I was just giving her
background, and that's a big part that you share. Q. Okay. But you admit that during that interview, you did
lie to her, correct? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. And specifically, she asked you whether you had ever
exchanged text messages with Cody York, correct? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. Okay. And I said that we had not, and we had.
And at that time, you didn't know that she had
copies of those text messages, correct? A. Q. No, ma'am. So you lied when you told her that you hadn't texted him.
You also lied when you told her that you had never had sex with Cody York, correct? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. You were interviewed by "Dateline NBC" as we discussed
earlier, and you told the interviewer that you lied about having sex with Cody because you, quote, "had no idea that it was even in the realm of possibilities that they had the text
Jones - Cross 63 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 messages," end quote, correct? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. And because you felt, quote, "blind-sided," end quote, by
them, correct? A. Yes. I thought in order for -- and again, this is I thought that in order to get
completely not knowing.
text-message records, that either -- that you had to have a victim go forward or that you had to get parental permission in order to review text messages. very close with them. And his parents were -- I'm
I knew that they weren't going to give Again, his
somebody permission to have their text records. phone records were not even under his name. his dad's.
They were under
So I had no idea that the text messages were going So that's what I mean by I was
to even be obtainable. blind-sided. Q. Okay.
So if you knew that she had proof, you wouldn't
have lied to her, correct? A. Well, I was being investigated by the police so I -- no
person that's being investigated would go in and say, yes, I did this. I would immediately -- if I had known that she had
my text records, I would not have -- I would have (A) not have talked to her. I would have had my attorney present. Because
then I would have let the justice system take its course rather than me sitting there saying yes, I did this. It wouldn't have been smart for me to admit to everything
Jones - Cross 64 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 in the police station without having a court case. So had I
known they had the text message, I would not have even been at the police station without an attorney. Q. And by that, you're admitting that you wouldn't have told
her, no, I didn't do this at that time, correct? A. Q. Correct. Okay. I lied to her, yes, ma'am.
And you told the "Dateline" interviewer that,
quote, "It would not be very smart of me on an interview to come out and tell you the truth when I had a court case in a couple of months," end quote, correct? A. Q. Correct. Okay. So you lied because you didn't want to get caught,
correct? A. Q. Correct. Okay. And you lied because you didn't want to hurt your
case, correct? A. If this criminal case wasn't here, there would be no -- I
mean, after February, 2011 is the only thing that's hurting me there. Q. No, I'm talking about you lied because you didn't want to
hurt your criminal case, correct? A. Q. Oh, yes, ma'am. Okay. Okay. Now, you testified yesterday that you
didn't start lying until after the Cody scandal or that you didn't lie about things that weren't connected with covering
Jones - Cross 65 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 up a scandal, correct? A. Yeah, I never said that I had never told a lie. But as far as on that realm
Everybody tells lies sometimes.
of things, yes, I had never -- I've never told a lie as far as anything on that big of a scale goes. entire Cody situation. Q. Okay. Is your testimony that you didn't lie about But I did lie about the
anything big that's unconnected to the Cody situation? A. No, my statement just meant that when you were asking me Yes. I
as far as -- I mean, have I lied before in the past?
don't think anybody could come under oath and say that they've never lied. Q. Okay. Yeah, I lied. And you testified in a deposition a few months ago
that you didn't want to marry Nate, correct? A. Q. Correct. Okay. And that you asked him to, quote, "push it off," And then in quotes, "And he
end quote, meaning the wedding.
told me basically, if you -- if you push it off, then we're not -- then we're not -- like we won't be together, and I won't testify for you," end quote. A. Q. A. Yes, ma'am. Okay. Is that correct?
I said that in my deposition.
And you separated from him --
August 24th, 2011, about a few weeks after the -- a few
weeks after I was married. Q. Okay. And that was also a few weeks after the
Jones - Cross 66 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 me. deposition, correct, that he gave in this case? A. Q. A. His deposition was August 4th. Okay. And again, in that course of time, I had thought -- when
I was engaged July 3rd, 2010, I thought that he had stopped doing cocaine, had stopped doing steroids, and stopped cheating. And it was great for -- up until January of 2011, But then I had -- I found the
and he had stopped doing that.
steroids, I found the cocaine, and I heard that he had cheated on me with two girls in Vegas on his bachelor party. So by the time that we were getting married, I did not want to get married, but the invitations, everything was paid for. And he specifically -- I wouldn't use the word
blackmail, but he told me, if you -- I just want to let you know, if you call this off or we don't get married, then you're going to regret it. And Nathan was very physically and mentally abusive to I told you several times in my deposition, he would make
me sleep on the floor, he would hit me with ironing boards. And he'll tell you that he was never physically abusive, meaning that he did not ever punch me in the face, and he was correct in that. But he was very physically and mentally
abusive throughout the entire relationship. Q. Okay. And all I'm asking you is, you told me that he
told you that he wasn't going to testify for you?
Jones - Cross 67 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Correct. Okay. Now, that was in -- the separation was in August
of 2011, correct? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. You were interviewed by Detective Inman in November of
2011, correct? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. So that was a few months in between, during which you
were not in a relationship with Nathan Wilburn, correct? A. Yes. We had discussed filing an annulment, but in order
to get an annulment in Kentucky -- we were going to do an annulment because the marriage had not been consummated. never had sex after we were married. Q. A. Okay. So we just -THE COURT: Ma'am, I think we ought to try just We
answering the questions. THE WITNESS: THE COURT: Oh, okay. Sorry. And --
Jury's going to need a break pretty soon.
How much longer do you have? MS. MATTINGLY: a half an hour. THE COURT: Okay. Well, let's assume it's going to I've probably got maybe 15 minutes to
be the half hour and take a break. All right. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll take your morning
Jones - Cross 68 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 recess at this time. Court. Continue to heed the admonition of the
Do not discuss the case among yourselves or with
anyone else; or if you have any access to any media, don't watch it, don't contribute to it. We'll take 20 minutes.
(The jury left the courtroom at 10:33 a.m.) (Recess at 10:33 a.m. until 10:57 a.m.) THE COURT: Please be seated. Ma'am, before the jury
comes back -- that's all right. you.
I wanted to say something to
If you're asked a question, just answer the question. THE WITNESS: THE COURT: Yes, sir. If you need to make some explanation, you
can ask permission to make an explanation. THE WITNESS: THE COURT: Okay. And maybe we'll move along a bit faster. Bring in the jury.
You may take the stand.
(The jury entered the courtroom at 10:59 a.m.) THE COURT: and gentlemen. All right. Good morning again, ladies
Thank you again for your continued attention. You may continue. Thank you, Your Honor.
Everybody may be seated. MS. MATTINGLY: BY MS. MATTINGLY: Q.
Now, Ms. Jones, when we took a break, we were discussing
your interview with Detective Inman, correct? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. And during that interview, do you remember telling
Jones - Cross 69 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Detective Inman that you had recently gotten married? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. Okay. And again, just so we can get back on track, that
interview was in November of 2011, correct? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. And you had actually separated from your husband back in
August of 2011, correct? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. Okay. Now, do you remember telling her that you had
recently, quote, "gone under oath," end quote, to testify that you had only slept with one person, who you identified to her as your husband? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. Okay. And you obviously intended to make her believe
that, as of November, 2011, you had only slept with one person, correct? A. She wasn't asking me if I -- she wasn't asking me about
my marriage. Q. Right. You were volunteering information to her,
correct? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. Okay. And that's how you worded it, that you'd only
slept -- you testified you only slept with one person, correct? A. Yes, ma'am.
Jones - Cross 70 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Now, at the time that you told her that, that was not You had slept with more than one person, correct?
true. A. Q.
Correct. Okay. I want to show you a couple of e-mails that you And I'm going to talk
sent to my client in November of 2009. about the bottom one first. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Okay. Does this look familiar to you? Yes, ma'am.
Do you admit that you sent those e-mails to my client? Yes, ma'am. Okay. Can you read -- well, what's the date? It's
November -A. Q. A. pic. November 19th, 2009, at 1:07. Okay. Can you read the highlighted portion, please?
"I was 19 years old on the top pic and 20 on the bottom I am now 25 and look much different. Those pictures are
horrible." Q. Let me get that back, please. Now, since this was
November 19th, 2009, there had only been one post about you on thedirty.com at that time, correct? A. Q. A. Q. Yes, ma'am. And was that the post with Shayne Graham? Yes, ma'am. Okay. And in this e-mail, you said that you were 19 in
Jones - Cross 71 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the first picture and 20 in the bottom one, correct? A. Q. Yes, I said that. Okay. At this time, were you a Ben-Gal cheerleader
during these pictures? A. Q. A. Q. Yes, ma'am. Okay. I was not 19.
Why did you --
Go ahead. But in the e-mail to my client, you said that you were
19, correct? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. I was hoping -- could I explain? Okay. Later in
Well, can I just read one thing first?
the e-mail, you said to him, quote, "People go on there and are calling a then-teenager a slut and ugly," end quote, correct? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. Okay. You were not 19 in either of these pictures,
correct? A. Q. A. Q. No, ma'am. You were not a teenager, correct? No, ma'am. You previously testified that at the time that you tried
out for the Ben-Gals, you had to be 21, correct? A. Q. A. Correct. So you lied to my client, correct? Correct.
Jones - Cross 72 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Okay. Now, you were on the "Anderson Cooper" show,
correct? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. Okay. And you went up there in November of 2011,
correct? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. Okay. And we have text messages between you and Cody
while you were there, correct? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. Okay. You were telling Cody about the interview,
correct? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. Okay. Do you recall telling Cody, quote, "Nik Richie And I
said, 'I think you got married to someone who cheated.' said, 'You live and learn, and I've learned from those mistakes, and I moved on.'
I said I had been only -- I had
only been with one person, though, because I had to for court," end quote, correct? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. Okay. And those text messages were dated 11/4/2011,
correct? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. So at that time, you had no knowledge of any police
investigation about you and Cody, correct? A. Correct.
Jones - Cross 73 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. So the court that you were talking about was this
lawsuit, correct? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. Okay. And just a few minutes later, you said, quote,
"I've been with two people, but they can't know that," end quote, correct? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. And during your deposition, you referenced this as
strategically wording, correct? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. Okay. Now, during the interview with "Anderson Cooper,"
you wore your wedding ring, didn't you? A. Q. A. Q. Yes, ma'am. And again, that was in November of 2011, correct? Yes, ma'am. We established earlier, you weren't with Nathan anymore
at that time, correct? A. Q. Correct. Okay. And you told Cody that Nik, which is my client
sitting here today, quote, "can't know I got a divorce yet," end quote, correct? A. Q. Correct. Okay. And all of that was dealing with this lawsuit, not That
any criminal investigation, not any criminal court case. was dealing with this lawsuit, correct?
Jones - Cross 74 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Yes, ma'am. Okay. So we're here in court today because of alleged
lies that you say were posted on my client's web site, correct? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. Okay. But we've established that in November of 2011,
you were trying to hide things from my client so that it wouldn't hurt you in this court case, correct? A. I did not want to be posted on there that I was going
through a divorce publicly, that's correct. Q. Okay. But you related it to, "They can't know that,"
correct, "because I had to for court," correct? A. Meaning that, yes, correct, that I didn't want them to
know that I had been with Cody. Q. A. Okay. It wasn't -- it was not about that. It was about the
criminal case -- or the civil case. Q. A. Q. A. Okay. You wanted to keep things from court, correct?
Yes, ma'am. Which is this court, correct? Not from the Court. I didn't want him to know. My
reason for saying those, I didn't want him to post on there that I was going through a divorce. Q. Okay. But you said that you said something, quote,
"because I had to for court"?
Jones - Cross 75 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Yes, ma'am, I said that. Okay. Okay. Now, you've previously told me in a
deposition that you never received monetary compensation for any interviews, right? A. Q. A. Correct. The "Anderson Cooper" and the "20/20," correct? Correct. They flew me there, but I didn't receive
compensation. Q. Okay. But in text messages to Cody, you said, quote, "I
got money for doing," end quote, "the 'Anderson Cooper' interview," correct? A. Q. I told him that, yes. Okay. And you also told him, quote, "I get money for all
those interviews," correct? A. Q. I told him that; but, yes, I -Okay. So you repeatedly told us that you're bringing
this lawsuit so that you can take a stand for others and to set an example, right? A. That's not the main reason; but, yeah, I filed the
lawsuit because those things are not true about me and he does this to the general public and it's not fair. Q. A. Okay. But you talked a lot to Cody about money, right?
We discussed money in issue, as far as having a family
together, buying a house together, future plans, several times.
Jones - Cross 76 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 enough. MR. DETERS: Okay. Your Honor, there's one other matter. Q. Okay. Do you remember telling Cody that you get your,
quote, "money real soon," end quote? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. Okay. And didn't you also tell Cody, quote, "Baby, as
soon as we get the money, it's ours," end quote? MR. DETERS: to credibility. Objection as to relevancy. It relates
It's past February 1, 2011, and it has
nothing to do with credibility. THE COURT: I'll allow that one, but I think that's
She had -- may we approach? THE COURT: You've exhausted the subject of money.
What's the next question? MS. MATTINGLY: Well, I was going to ask you
something about that, see if I could ask about it. THE COURT: Okay. Come around.
(Bench conference.) MS. MATTINGLY: Your Honor, she testified yesterday
that she and Cody were joking about the money situation. THE COURT: Right. And I've said to you, there are
additional text messages to show that's not the case; that it puts it all in context of this lawsuit. So that goes to a
Jones - Cross 77 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 it. that. THE COURT REPORTER: There's another one. I can read matter. credibility issue. And she told this jury that it was all in
context of joking, and it's not. MR. DETERS: No, she said the joking was about the That's what she said she was
pink house, the pink pool. joking about.
She was joking about the pink pool, the pink
bowling ball, the pink everything. THE COURT: Well, I think we're on a collateral
We're on the realm of relevance. MS. MATTINGLY: But, Your Honor, she testified as to
that yesterday. THE COURT: I'm going to say it's getting beyond
the -- it's getting repetitious and beyond what's probative. MS. MATTINGLY: THE COURT: Okay.
Time it takes is not what it's worth.
(Bench conference concluded.) MS. MATTINGLY: Your Honor, I don't recall if she
answered the last question that you said that you would allow that question but not this one. THE COURT: Okay. Let me check it out. You said it
was about this criminal case.
I'm not sure what she meant.
You can ask her that one again. MS. MATTINGLY: I thought it was a little beyond
Jones - Cross 78 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 THE COURT: previously told him? MS. MATTINGLY: I believe you said she could answer Okay. The one about the money, that she
that question, Your Honor. THE COURT: end of it. BY MS. MATTINGLY: Q. A. Q. Did you say that? Yes, ma'am. Now, Ms. Jones, we've gone through all of these lies that She can answer that question. That's the
you've told, correct? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. And you would agree with me that there have been a lot of
them? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. Including the fact that you'll lie if you believe that no
one can find the evidence to dispute it, correct, which you didn't believe she had the text messages, correct? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. Okay. So we're sitting here today because of a handful
of things, things that you call lies, that someone else, not even my client, said about you on my client's web site, correct? A. Q. I don't know who said them. Okay. Yet, it's okay for you to lie?
Jones - Redirect 79 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. BY MR. DETERS: Q. With respect to that last question, the text messages A. Q. It's not okay for me to lie. Okay. MS. MATTINGLY: THE COURT: Thank you. That's all I have.
Try not to be repetitious.
that you had between you and Cody and the lies that you told to the police officers, was that on a web site where the whole world could see? A. Q. No, sir. So did you ever think that the lies you were telling to
them would be seen on the whole -- to the whole world? A. Q. No, sir. All right. Other -- I've listened to the opening. I'm
listening to the cross-examination of you.
And I have heard
one lie that relates to this claim from the postings to February 1st, and that she just went over it. e-mail from November 19th, 2009, 1:07. in front of you? A. No, sir, I do not. MR. DETERS: THE COURT: Can I approach, Your Honor? You may. Can And it's the
Do you still have that
Counsel asked you to read the highlighted portion.
you read everything that follows the highlighted portion,
Jones - Redirect 80 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 please? A. Q. Should I read the entire thing? What -- after the highlighted portion. The jury's
already heard the highlighted portion. A. "I'm trying to be thick-skinned, but constantly reading People go on there and How is that
how ugly I am is really getting to me.
are calling a then-teenager a slut and ugly. possible?
I just really need you to please put yourself in my
position and see how you would feel if this was happening to you. Teaching high school, I know that rumors don't normally
come up from nowhere; but in this case, I swear to you that I have never been with, slept with, or associated with any Bengals players. Please, please, please take it down. The
entire situation has been so devastating." Q. Okay. Now, are you aware of a single lie that you've
told to anyone that caused Nik Richie to post what he posted in October of 2009? A. Q. No. Are you aware of a lie that you told that caused him to
post any of these postings? A. Q. A. Q. No. Have you told lies to cover up the postings? No. All right. They began their direct examination -- or Did
cross-examination with the Ben-Gal covers, the calendars.
Jones - Redirect 81 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 you like doing the photo shoots for the Ben-Gals? A. Q. A. Q. It was fun. Okay. It was a fun aspect of cheerleading.
Did you have any hopes of doing some modeling?
Not modeling outside of Bengals. Okay. Is there anything criminally wrong, that you're
aware of, of doing those calendar posters? A. Q. No, sir. Okay. The fact that you did those calendar posters, is
there anything that you're aware of that because if you're a Ben-Gal and you do a poster like that, that means that somebody could say you got chlamydia and gonorrhea? A. Q. A. No, sir. Explain to the -- explain to us how you got hepatitis A. In the seventh grade, I played basketball for my middle And I had
school, and a girl had gone into the locker room.
asthma at the time, sports-related asthma, and she used my inhaler. And she had contracted hepatitis. Her mom had
called my mom, and she had contracted hepatitis through food at Applebee's. And by her using my inhaler, it was
contagious; and afterwards, when I used my inhaler, I contracted hepatitis A through the inhaler. Q. A. Q. A. When did you learn about that? I was in the seventh grade. Okay. Did you contract hepatitis A by sex? I had not kissed anyone even at that time. How old were you?
Jones - Redirect 82 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. Okay. Do you see yourself as a public celebrity?
No, sir. When you walk into a restaurant -- well, take that back.
Prior to February 1st, 2011, prior to February 1st, 2011, when you walked in a restaurant, did people say, "There's Sarah Jones, Ben-Gal cheerleader"? A. Q. No, sir. Did people at the restaurant come up and ask you for your
autograph? A. Q. No, sir. Prior to February 1st, 2011, did you do any television
shows, radio shows? A. Q. No, sir. These charity events that they covered, could anyone go
to the charity event if they paid the money to go? A. Q. Yes, sir. Now, they went over a lot of testimony -- or questions
with you about how you didn't lose your job as a teacher, you didn't lose your job as a Ben-Gal. The fact that you didn't
lose your job and you didn't lose your job as a Ben-Gal, did you just -- does it not bother you? A. They were very devastating. These posts not hurt you?
I was extremely depressed
just because of the posts. Q. All right. Were you able to soldier on like a good
Jones - Redirect 83 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. At work, yes. At home, no.
What would happen at home? I would constantly cry. I'm constantly on that web site
reading everything that all these people have to say about me, and I would throw up. I lost weight. I had to go see my And that was It's a
doctor to prescribe me Lexapro for depression. after the posts.
And I went to go see a counsellor.
family therapist who talked a lot about -- my self-esteem went -- just completely plummeted after this, so I talked to a therapist a lot about self-esteem and the postings. Q. They covered your plea with the Commonwealth Attorney Were you required to
from Louisville that handled that. register as a sexual offender? A. Q. No, sir.
When you were sending all these texts to Cody York and
anybody else that they used to say that you lied, credibility, did you ever think anybody would ever see those? A. Q. No, sir. Now, the lies that you told between you and Cody York, up
until they were subpoenaed, did anybody see those besides you and Cody York? A. Q. A. No, sir. How many people saw the chlamydia and gonorrhea postings? I couldn't tell you. It was posted on the web site from
December 7th, 2009 till August 26th, 2010.
Jones - Redirect 84 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Now, we didn't -- relative to the site, in
cross-examination, she focused on your close-knit family didn't believe things. A. Q. A. Q. Yes, sir. Does thedirty.com have a special tab for Cincinnati? Yes, sir. Now, do you have any idea how many people in the Remember those questions?
Cincinnati area saw these postings about you? A. Q. I don't know. During the -- well, never mind. Do you have any
information or personal knowledge that thedirty.com knew about anything bad about you, anything bad about you and your reputation, up to February 1st, 2011? A. Q. No, they didn't have any information about me. All right. They brought up the idea of your interaction Were there
with the students because you're a young teacher. other young teachers at Dixie? A. Q. Yes, sir.
Did they have the same kind of relationships with the
students? A. Q. Yes, sir. Why was that? Why did a young teacher have a different
type of relationship with the students? A. Kids felt more comfortable to come to somebody that was
more -- that was closer in their age.
Jones - Redirect 85 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. DETERS: approach? (Bench conference.) Jim Grdina is a co-owner of the site, Q. Okay. Did you receive, at some point in time, an e-mail
from Jim Grdina that was also sent to Nik Richie and yourself and the lawyers for thedirty.com? A. Yes, sir. MS. MATTINGLY: Your Honor, objection. May we
and the purpose of this is they're making it -- they used the word "money grab," about this being a money grab, and she focused on the money. And what that e-mail points out is the
owner of the web site was actually on the same page as her, just take it down and it will end this. didn't listen to him. Of course, they
But that's the relevancy. Your Honor, my position would be
anything that we said was in an effort to avoid, you know, any legal cost of ours. It's in the realm of a settlement
negotiation or subsequent remedial measure, something that it has no relevance to show that -MR. DETERS: privilege. MS. MATTINGLY: It has nothing to do with privilege. That was copied to her. Loses all
I'm not making a privilege argument, Your Honor. THE COURT: MR. DETERS: Is this from your client? That's from Jim Grdina. The owner of
Jones - Redirect 86 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 avowal? it. the web site wrote it. THE COURT: MR. DETERS: Who's Dusty? I don't know who that is. He was an employee at the time.
MS. MATTINGLY: THE COURT:
That's an internal thing about settling
That's privileged. MR. DETERS: Even if it's copied? Note my objection.
Thank you, Your Honor.
(Bench conference concluded.) MR. DETERS: Can I submit this to the Court on
I'd like to have it. THE COURT: MR. DETERS: You can mark it as a tentative exhibit. Thank you.
BY MR. DETERS: Q. When the posting appeared relative to Nate on
thedirty.com, up till that time, did the general public -- do you have personal knowledge the general public knew about Nate's cheating on you? A. I think they knew -- the general public or -- my family
knew that he was cheating on me. Q. A. Q. I'm talking -- is your family the general public? No. My family knew.
Did the general public in Cincinnati, Sarah, know that
Nate cheated on you 50 times? A. No.
Jones - Redirect 87 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Okay. Once it goes up on thedirty.com, how did that make
you feel? A. Q. A. Q. Everyone knew about it. All right. Yes. You testified -- and there was some cross-examination And you Did it humiliate you?
questions about whether this is about money.
testified that you don't think it's ever going to end. During the course of this trial, has Nik Richie continued to post about you? MS. MATTINGLY: THE COURT: Objection, Your Honor. We have the time limit that Objection sustained.
you established and that's beyond it. Q.
The posting relative to Shayne Graham, did that cause any
problems between you and someone else, besides Shayne Graham? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Yes. Who? His fiance. And who was his fiance? Her name's Kate. Okay. I'm not -- I don't know her last name.
And what happened as a result of that?
When he had notified me, he was simply notifying me to
let me know that I was on the site, but also to confirm -have me confirm that this was not true to appease her, to let her know that we had never been together, because it was his
Jones - Redirect 88 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 fiance. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Did you have to kind of smooth that over -Yes, sir. -- to reassure her? Yes, sir. Did you ever receive e-mails to your professional e-mail
at school relative to these postings? A. Q. A. Yes, sir. And what did those say? Very derogatory e-mails. And they would post -- they Would make
would say, "You're really dirty, aren't you?" references to the STDs.
And those were coming as a smart
board in my classroom, so they were coming to my e-mail that would show on a public screen to my kids. Q. The second posting about the Bengals, who did you first Who was it that called you?
learn about those? A.
My coach, Charlotte Jacobs, from the Bengals called me on
that evening to let me know that I was posted. Q. you? A. I read it and I could not believe that the people are I didn't know who could do it. I was absolutely It And when she told you this on the phone, what happened to
saying this. devastated. was awful. Q.
That night was the worst night of my life.
And that was the chlamydia and gonorrhea post?
Jones - Redirect 89 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Yes. Did you go to school the next day? No. Why didn't you go to school the next day? I didn't even want to face anyone. I knew it was on the I
Internet so I didn't want -- I didn't know who had seen it. didn't know -- I didn't know how to take it. had e-mailed him. I didn't -- I
I already -- I knew it wasn't going to come
down because I had already e-mailed him, but I was hoping that if I kept e-mailing him, he would just take it down finally, and I could not physically get myself to go to school the next day. Q. A. Q. A. After the postings, did you consider quitting your job? Yes, sir. Why? I did not want -- as a teacher and with those things
being on the Internet stating that I had slept with 50 Bengals players or the entire time and that I had two STDs, I didn't want to be in front of kids. I didn't want them -- there were
comments that were saying, "This slut had sex in my classroom." I don't want to go in that classroom anymore. I
didn't want to teach anymore. Q. After you filed the lawsuit, do you recall Nik Richie
posting a public letter on the post? A. Yes, sir.
Jones - Redirect 90 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Q. "If you know the truth, then why do you care? With all
the media attention, this is only going to get worse for you. Your lawyer's trying to make a name for himself using you as his pawn. If anything, me just seeing your face on the news All you had to do
right now will get you fired from your job.
was read the FAQ section like every other normal person that gets stuff removed. You dug your own grave here, Sarah. Hope it was worth it. Nik." I'm
a very reasonable person. Is that what he wrote? Yes, sir.
Did you read the FAQ section like every other normal
person to get stuff removed? A. Q. A. Yes, sir. And what happened? I sent a removal request several times, and he never took
it down. Q. Did you cry when you had to address your 15-year-old
students? A. Q. A. Q. Yes, in front of the entire class, each class. Did you see a counsellor? Yes, sir. When you got to Miami during the Pro Bowl, did other
cheerleaders know about this battle that you got yourself in? A. Q. Yes, sir. All right. I want to talk -- ask you a few questions
Jones - Redirect 91 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 about your lying to Cody. You've testified that you lied to
Cody about the money, you lied to Cody about other little things. A. Q. A. Why did you -- why did you tell those lies?
The lies to Cody? Yeah. Like why would you tell lies?
At the time of the interviews that I was doing, he did He hates when -- he's very And he did not want me to do
not want me to do interviews. private. it. He hates attention.
And when I said that I had received money from the
interviews, I had received money as far as they paid for my flight, they paid for my -- for that aspect of it. They
didn't give me a check for doing an interview, but they paid for everything while I was there. Q. A. Q. Were you trying to impress him? Yes. All right. Did you do that during the course of your
relationship with him, even to this day, to try to impress him? A. Q. A. Q. I try to impress him every day. Does he try to impress you? Yes. You lied to law enforcement. You lied to your mother.
You lied to lots of people surrounding that investigation. Why did you lie to them? A. I was scared. I lied to the investigators because I was
Jones - Redirect 92 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. WARD: scared. I didn't know what was going to happen. And I lied
to my parents because I was embarrassed and I was ashamed. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Okay. Have you told the truth under oath here today?
Yes, sir. And yesterday? Yes, sir. Okay. MR. DETERS: THE COURT: Nothing further. All right. Any redirect?
MS. MATTINGLY: THE COURT:
Nothing, Your Honor. You may step down, ma'am.
(The witness was excused.) THE COURT: says the plaintiff? witnesses? MR. DETERS: THE COURT: around, Mr. Richie. I'll call Nik Richie. On cross-examination. All right. Come It's a little early for lunch so what Or does the plaintiff have any further
You can at least get started with him.
We'll take a lunch break when you start the witness. MR. WARD: THE COURT: Can we approach real quick, Your Honor? Very well. (Bench conference.) We might be able to get Nik done and her If you think we I know
today, but I don't want to bet on that.
can -- and I don't know how long you're going to go.
Richie - Cross 93 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MR. DETERS: Q. Mr. Richie, we've met one other time before at a Do you recall that? fine. MS. MATTINGLY: THE COURT: MR. DETERS: Kristy Molony, she's a teacher. we'll be brief with Nik. If you think we can, we can go ahead
and let him finish his case and then call Ms. Molony, but if not, we might need to call her out of turn. MS. MATTINGLY: And I think she's short. We might
get her done totally before lunch. MR. DETERS:
That's up to you. I
I would rather get started on Nik.
can assure you we'll get her today. MS. MATTINGLY: THE COURT: use the time. MR. WARD: If we're going to get her today, that's Okay. As long as you
Whatever you want to do.
All right. She'll be short.
DEFENSE WITNESS, NIK RICHIE, SWORN THE COURT: Okay. I'll break for lunch about noon.
If you reach a breaking-off point sometime before then, you can let me know. MR. DETERS: THE COURT: Okay. You may ask. CROSS-EXAMINATION
Richie - Cross 94 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Judge. Q. A. Q. A. Q. What is your name? My name is Nik Lamas Richie. Okay. And how are you employed? name is. MR. DETERS: I forgot. That's a good one. My bad, A. Q. That's correct. And how many times have you given a deposition in the
past, besides that one? A. Q. Two other times. All right. My first question is, why do you call your
site thedirty.com? THE COURT: Well, maybe you should ask him what his
I work for Dirty World, LLC. Okay. And the Dirty World, LLC owns thedirty.com,
correct? A. Q. Correct. All right. Tell us how thedirty.com evolved. In other
words, how you came up with the idea and how it started. A. It first started, I lived in Scottsdale, Arizona, and I
started as -THE COURT: Bring out his relationship -- for
technical reasons, bring out his relationship with this parent company. MR. DETERS: Okay.
Richie - Cross 95 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 THE COURT: Which one's incorporated, are they both
incorporated, or what. BY MR. DETERS: Q. it? A. Q. A. Q. LLC? A. Q. A. ago. Q. A. Q. A. Did you sell it or did you give it away? I gave it away. Who did you give it to? I believe -- I'm not sure of the entity name. I think No. All right. When did you transfer your ownership? Yes. All right. Were you also the manager of it? Dirty World, LLC, when it was formed, did you own any of
Managing member. Managing member. Okay. Do you currently own any of the
I'm guesstimating maybe three months ago, four months
it's iNetwork. Q. A. Q. A. What network? iNetwork. All right. Why did you give it to iNetwork?
iNetwork -- it's kind of technical because the company,
we took a loan for it because we're not making money, so it was to basically pay the debt.
Richie - Cross 96 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 site. THE COURT: All right. Now, what's the relationship Q. Okay. So you did receive money. You paid off a loan
with the -A. No, I didn't pay off the debt. They just -- they're
majority interest now. Q. A. Okay. And who are "they"?
They are just an entity that owns interest in Dirty
World. Q. Is it a publicly-traded company? Is it owned by a couple
guys? A. Q. No, it's not publicly traded. Who owns it? MR. GINGRAS: THE COURT: Objection, Your Honor; relevance. I'll allow it. I have a couple myself. It's just a company.
Let me ask a couple while I'm thinking about it. The LLC, when these postings were made, were you a shareholder in the LLC? THE WITNESS: THE COURT: Yes. Okay. Yes, sir. Does it have offices like a
corporation, a president and a vice president, et cetera? THE WITNESS: THE COURT: No. No. So did you have a title or anything
in connection with that? THE WITNESS: I was just the operator of the web
Richie - Cross 97 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 between the LLC and thedirty.com? Is thedirty.com just a
trade name, or is it a separate corporation? THE WITNESS: THE COURT: THE WITNESS: THE COURT: THE WITNESS: THE COURT: It's just a domain name. Pardon me? It's a domain name. Domain name. So it's really part of --
Dirty World, LLC is the company. Is it a function of the LLC, one of its
activities, a trade name that it uses? THE WITNESS: THE COURT: BY MR. DETERS: Q. A. Q. Does the Dirty World, LLC own the domain site? Yes. All right. At the time these were posted on October and I guess you could say that. Okay. All right. Go ahead.
December of '09, you were the managing member of the LLC and you were the editor of thedirty.com, correct? A. Q. Yes. It was your idea, was it not, to begin thedirty.com,
correct? A. Well, it evolved from DirtyScottsdale.com. Because when I was just
I first started the site, I was just my blog.
taking pictures of the kids and the nightlife, wearing funny clothes, and I would write, you know, my satirical humor to those posts. It evolved once we did a couple more cities and
Richie - Cross 98 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 we just made a domain, like a hub site, called it thedirty.com. Q. A. Okay. Why did you name it thedirty.com?
Only because Dirty Scottsdale, it was already originated,
so I just looked for domains that could be one-hub domains. So we purchased thedirty.com. Q. A. Why did you call it Dirty Scottsdale? Just because it was the nightlife scene, and it was just
the term "dirty," I thought it was catchy. Q. Definition of "dirty," according to the Miriam Webster
dictionary, is "not clean or pure, morally unclean or corrupt, likely to cause disgrace or scandal." You know that's what
people think when they think of dirty, don't you? A. Q. No. Okay. That's what the dictionary says. Isn't it true that thedirty.com provides a place
where individuals can submit to you dirt on others for your consideration to put on the site? A. They can submit whatever they want. I do sports. I do It's
I do, you know, celebrity stuff all the time. You can upload whatever you want.
like YouTube. Q. A. Q.
You're the editor? Yes. From your deposition, I understand that there are a
thousand submissions a day, and you take the top 150 to 200 that you select that get posted, correct?
Richie - Cross 99 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. That sounds about right. It's a little bit more or less It's as many posts
depending on the day, if I can get more.
as I can get up that I select that I think are worthy of going on the web site. Q. And it's -- according to your deposition, you have
600,000 hits a day, 18 million a month? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Yes. You're in 50 cities, including Cincinnati? Yes. You have a hundred subsections, including colleges? Yes. And you're in Canada, Paris, and Mexico? Yes. And you consider this the world's first-ever reality
blogger, yourself? A. Q. I was the first one to bring it to market, yes. Okay. You are paid a salary to operate thedirty.com,
correct? A. Q. Yes. And you also do, I think you said, tons of speaking
engagements on behalf of thedirty.com? A. They're not speaking engagements. They're celebrity
appearances. Q. A. Okay. You're a celebrity?
I would say -- classify it, yes.
Richie - Cross 100 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Okay. And isn't it true that the game plan was that, at
some point in time, to, quote unquote, cash out the web site, sell it to someone? A. Well, the game plan in any business is to establish the
business to get to profitability, and then hopefully if, you know, if I can sell the web site, that would be awesome. Q. And isn't it also true that traffic to the web site -- in
other words, the more people that go to it -- increases what you're able to sell in advertising dollars to advertisers that might want to advertise on your web site? A. Q. A. Q. It's true for any web site. Including yours? Yes. All right. Isn't it true that in 2009 and through 2010,
you were the sole person who decided what gets posted, what stays up, and what comes down? A. Q. It still is, yes. All right. And isn't it also true that you can edit --
you've edited postings? A. Q. Define the term "edit." All right. Somebody puts a post and you take a sentence
out of it? A. Q. A. No. You never edit a post? I'll put asterisks in bad words, but I don't edit the
Richie - Cross 101 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 third party -- whatever the third party writes. Q. Isn't it true in the past, and even to this day, you
sometimes write a post and you put somebody else's name to it? A. No. What do you mean? I do create content, if it's a
source of a celebrity story and I write it for them, yes. Q. No, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about Let's say
Let's say -- this just popped in my head.
you want to get me in trouble.
You could write a post Okay?
blasting a judge and put my name next to it.
Isn't it true that you do that from time to time; that you actually take some content that you write, and you put somebody else's name to it and attribute it to them, when they didn't write it? A. How would I put someone else's name to it? I'm not
understanding that. Q. Okay. So is it your testimony here today that you never
do that; that you never write a post and then put somebody else's name to it? A. I'm not understanding your question. Put someone else's
name to what? Q. A. Okay. I do create content. Like, for instance, I've been If I get a
posting this trial stuff from other media outlets.
story from someone, when they submit, if there's a phone number or a contact where I need more information, if it's a
Richie - Cross 102 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 breaking story, I'll create the content, yes. Q. That's not what I'm talking about. Here, I'm going to do
this. Now, what I'm going to put up here is a completely fictional, made-up comment that I'm using to make my point. And it's poorly handwritten because I did it in a hurry. "Judge Smith," a phony judge, "is a pedophile." Deters. Signed Eric
Do you write posts like this to where you'll write
something -- in other words, you would write "Judge Smith is a pedophile" -- and put my name to it and post it on thedirty.com? A. Q. A. Do you do that?
If I got clearance from you. Okay. So if I said it was okay, you would do that?
If you were the source and you gave me the information, I
would post it for you, yes. Q. Okay. Now, what if -- so you're saying that you would
only do that if I gave you permission? A. Q. Yes. So if I did not give you permission to post that, you
would not post it? A. Q. No. Okay. Thank you very much.
Do you know who submitted to thedirty.com the first post about Sarah Jones and Shayne Graham and having sex with every other Bengal football player?
Richie - Cross 103 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. No. No. Now, you approved that for posting, correct?
All right. Yes. All right.
And you also approved for posting the one
where it references Sarah Jones, her boyfriend being tested positive for chlamydia and gonorrhea, and that she must have it too, paraphrasing? A. Q. Yes. And you also approved the post about Nate Wilburn and her You also approved that post?
having sex in her classroom, on the football field, when she taught at Dixie, correct? A. Q. Yes. All right. Isn't it true that despite over 20 e-mail
requests -A. Q. Thirteen. All right. We'll go with your number. Over 13 requests,
you never removed those posts until the default judgment was entered against Dirty World Entertaining, LLC? A. I removed the posts, but it was after the -- I don't know
if you'd call it the fake lawsuit where you guys sued the wrong company. You sued the wrong company, Eric, and -- and I
got that information; but it was after that, yes, I removed the posts. The e-mails were actually the same e-mail, same I had three separate e-mails, but Sarah
just kept sending the same exact e-mail over and over.
Richie - Cross 104 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Okay. So you're saying that the e-mails that she sent
were the same over and over and they weren't different? A. Q. A. Majority of them were the same e-mail. All right. Why didn't you take them down?
To be honest, I didn't really think the posts -- like the It was about Nathan. You
first post wasn't really about her.
know, or the -- sorry, the Shayne Graham posts, they were both public figures. story. Q. A. Q. A. Q. her? A. It was referencing Shayne Graham. I referenced Shayne You considered Sarah Jones a public figure? I do, yes. All right. She's a Cincinnati Ben-Gal. All right. Now, so you didn't think that that was about He's a football player. It's a celebrity
Graham when I wrote my comment. of them, I guess. Q. Well, here's what it said:
You know, it was about both
"The Dirty Army" -- first
off, who's The Dirty Army? A. Q. A. Just fans of the site, you know. You like their war mentality? I know you use the "war mentality," but it could be Anybody could be Dirty Army.
What did you mean by that, when you said they got the war
Richie - Cross 105 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 mentality? A. Just an Army. It's like the blog nation. It's the same
thing. Q. All right. The Army, isn't it true The Dirty Army is
about finding the dirt in each city that can get posted on your web site to drive traffic? A. No. The Dirty Army's about a lot of things. You know,
The Dirty Army raises money for charity.
You know, we donate You know,
to Sarah Tara, which is a foundation in Kentucky. it's about a lot of different things. through the site. Q. Now, this post, "The Dirty Army:
It's a face page
Nik, this is Sarah J,
Cincinnati Bengals cheerleader.
She's been spotted around She has also
town lately with the infamous Shayne Graham.
slept with every other Bengal football player," that was about Sarah, wasn't it, not Shayne Graham? "She has slept with
every other Bengal football player," that was about her, right? A. Q. Yes. It's my understanding that you admit in your deposition
you don't believe that that's true. A. Q. A. It's an exaggeration. So you think she slept with one? I couldn't tell you. You know, after -- to this day, if She lies a lot.
you ask me now, I would say probably.
Richie - Cross 106 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. So you say probably? Yes, I think she probably has. Okay. In my mind. How many? I don't know. Well, what proof do you have? I don't. It's not my job to fact-check the stuff.
You decide what is posted and whether it stays up, and
it's not your responsibility? A. I get thousands of submissions and I have over a hundred It's impossible for me to
thousand posts on the web site. fact-check every single post. Q.
Then why do you let them post if you know some of them
are going to be untrue? A. It's not my job to decide what's true and what's not
true. Q. A. Q. All right. Yes. All right. When you post something on Facebook, Facebook Do you have a Facebook page?
doesn't come and edit it, do they? A. Q. A. Q. No. If you flagged it, they remove it.
All right. You know, there's no porn on Facebook. All right. Other than that, you can say Eric Deters is a
Richie - Cross 107 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 pedophile on your Facebook. that, is it? A. Q. A. There's nobody that's editing
It's just you, right?
No, because you can flag it to get removed. Well, how do you flag and get removed from your site? Just like any other person, you do a removal request. I
remove -- I review the link and tell you if I want to remove it. You know, if I think that there's -- if someone sends me
evidence that it's false, which Sarah never did, then I would remove it. Q. How do you prove you didn't have sex with every Bengal
football player? A. Q. I don't know. Well, isn't it true that she sent through you -- and
we're going to get to it -- that she sent you messages, that you got e-mails to remove this, and you refused to remove it? A. was. I didn't refuse to remove it. I just asked what the link
And then after the fact, something happened with Shayne
Graham because, you know, he was being promiscuous, and there was other posts about Shayne Graham on the site that weren't relevant to Sarah, but just his lifestyle, which Sarah agreed in an e-mail. Q. I don't represent Shayne Graham. I represent her. It
"Everyone in Cincinnati knows this kicker is a sex addict. is no secret. He can't even keep relationships because his
red rocket has freckles that need to be touched constantly.
Richie - Cross 108 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Nik." A. Q. That's about Shayne Graham. Exactly. But there's two pictures of Sarah Jones with The Dirty Army says, "She slept with every The girl's a teacher too! You would
Bengal football player.
think with Graham's paycheck, he would attract something a little easier on the eyes, Nik." posting. A. Q. A. Now, isn't it true -And then you made your
I didn't write that post. You didn't write the first part, you claim. I did not write the first part at all. It's not about
claiming. Q. A. Q. All right. Yeah. -- straight-faced, clear microphone, that you do not Are you telling this jury --
believe posting that and allowing someone to post that does not hold Sarah up to public ridicule? A. Q. A. She's a public figure. In your opinion? In the world's opinion. She's on national TV. She's a
Ben-Gal. Q. A. Prior to -Chad Johnson scored a touchdown and ran over to Sarah and Like, she's on TV.
gave her the football. Q.
When you go out to dinner in Arizona, did people
Richie - Cross 109 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 recognize you and ask you for your autograph? A. They recognize me, but I don't -- I can tell you I've
signed two autographs in my life. Q. Okay. The next post that I want to go over with you is And The Dirty
the post that appeared on December 7th, '09.
Army says, "Nik, here we have Sarah J, captain cheerleader of the playoff-bound Cincy Bengals. Most people see Sarah as a Yes, she's also
gorgeous cheerleader and high school teacher. a teacher.
But what most of you don't know is her ex, Nate, In that
cheated on her with over 50 girls in four years.
time, he tested positive for chlamydia infection and gonorrhea, so I'm sure Sarah also has both. What's worse is
he brags about doing Sarah in the gym, football field, her classroom at the school. She teaches at Dixie Heights."
What evidence did you have, when you decided to leave this post up and let it stay up, that Nik had tested positive for chlamydia infection and gonorrhea? A. Q. A. I didn't test positive. Excuse me, that Nate did. The post was about Nate primarily; and, you know, I But it sounded -- if you
didn't have any evidence whatsoever.
read the post, it sounded like someone, maybe a girl that slept with Nate. And to me, I was like, okay, well, those It's pretty specific.
STDs, it's not just STDs. Q.
So you're saying this post with Sarah's Ben-Gal
Richie - Cross 110 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cheerleading picture was more about Nate? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. If you read it, it's about Nate. All right. No. Is there a picture of Nate?
There's a picture of --
Picture of Sarah. Cheerleader. And doesn't it say, "So I'm sure Sarah also has both"?
Isn't it true, Mr. Richie, that you allowed to be posted and stay posted, up till February 1st, 2011, that Sarah Jones was sure to have chlamydia infection and gonorrhea? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. No, that post was removed before that date. When did it get removed? After the lawsuit, right?
Which not, to me -- the fake lawsuit? Excuse me. Against who? The Dirty World Entertaining Recordings, LLC. Yes. All right. And that's when you took it down finally? Yes. After the default judgment, it got removed?
Yes, I think.
And based on the volume of numbers of thedirty.com,
600,000 hits a day, 18 million a month, isn't it true that millions of people saw that Sarah Jones was sure to have chlamydia and gonorrhea? A. No, because it was just a one-day -- if it goes on -- if
it's on the main page, I'm guessing that post probably got
Richie - Cross 111 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 50,000; in Cincinnati, probably 300 people. Q. Okay. So only 50,000 people saw it and only 300 in
Cincinnati, according to what you're testifying to? A. Q. A. I'm guessing, based on traffic. Don't you think that's 50,000 and 300 too many? It's the Internet. It's like going on YouTube and
It's the same thing.
Is it your position that with the Internet, that you are
allowed to post things that you know are not true about another person because it's the Internet? position? A. My position's freedom of speech, and people are entitled This is America. Is that your
to their own opinions. Q. All right.
You have given press conferences and you have
been -- you are an advocate that you think this is about freedom of speech, correct? A. It's about what Congress passed, to me, I believe. You
know, technically, I'm supposed to be protected under the Communications Decency Act. Q. All right. Are you aware of any law that you've read,
you've personally read, that says you're allowed to libel and slander people on the Internet? A. I'm not doing anything that's illegal. I'm doing what
every other -- if you look at YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, it's all the same.
Richie - Cross 112 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Okay. Now, isn't it true that you continued with yet In other
another post that you allowed to go on, correct?
words, there was another post that you posted later with her and Nate? A. Q. A. Yes. All right. Yeah. And that post stayed up as well; did it not?
I think I removed all of them around the same -But was that the one where she's at
the same time frame. Disney World? Q. A. Q. Yes.
Yeah, she's wearing her bathing suit at Disney World. I got to ask you a question. Why did you remove them
after the default judgment against a corporation that didn't exist anymore? A. Q. A. Q. I don't even know what that corporation is. Did you get scared? No. This is that post. "Nik, okay, you all seen the past Well, here
posting of the dirty Bengals cheerleader teacher. is her main man Nate. couple.
Posted a few pics of the infected
Oh, and for everyone saying Sarah is so gorgeous,
check out these nonphoto-shopped pics." And then your comment, "Cool tribal tat man." tribal tat man? A. Well, looking at the image, it's pretty obvious. Nate. Who's cool
Richie - Cross 113 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. All right. "For a second yesterday, I was jealous of
those high school kids for having a cheerleader teacher, but not anymore. Nik."
Now, isn't it true, as it's recorded here, 32 responses to Bengal cheerleader boyfriend, and isn't it true that what follows is basically just like with the other posts, there's a lot of trashing of Sarah Jones? A. It's comments. You can say whatever you want, like every
other web site. Q. Now, those comments, isn't it true that a lot of those Most of those comments are
comments -- take that back. anonymous? A. Q. I would agree, yes. All right.
So isn't it true, so I have this right, you You're the editor that
have a web site called thedirty.com.
decides what goes up, what comes down, how long it stays on; and you know that the comments that follow those posts, after you make your comment, are from anonymous people that are free to fire shots and no one ever know who they are? You provide
that service to the United States of America in the business of commerce, correct? A. Yeah, but I don't see the difference between that and It's the
Facebook or any other, or even if you have a blog. same things. MR. DETERS:
This would be a good place to stop.
Richie - Cross 114 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 to raise? MR. DETERS: THE COURT: jury in, please. (The jury entered the courtroom at 1:19 p.m.) No. No. Let them come in. Bring the exit. (The jury left the courtroom at 11:58 a.m.) (Lunch recess taken.) (Proceedings resumed at 1:17 p.m.) THE COURT: jury comes in? MR. DETERS: THE COURT: MR. DETERS: you ready -THE COURT: No, I said do you have anything you want Yes, Your Honor. You do? Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you said are Okay. Anything to bring up before the THE COURT: I think so. All right. Ladies and
gentlemen, we'll take a break for lunch until 1:15. Continue to heed the admonition of the Court. Do not
discuss the case among yourselves or with anyone else, not with the press. Don't consult any media about it or publish
anything in any media about it, including Facebook, Twitter, or anything like that. All right. We'll be in recess until 1:15. Please rise for the jury's
COURT SECURITY OFFICER:
Richie - Cross 115 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 THE COURT: You may be seated. BY MR. DETERS: Q. Nik, do you -- what are your thoughts about the fact that Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Witness is on the stand. You may ask.
Sarah sent you -- and you say 13 e-mails asking you to take it down? And isn't it true that a lot of her messages indicated
she didn't want to file a lawsuit; she just wanted to take -you to take the postings down? That's true, isn't it? That's
what -- she says that in her messages to you, doesn't she? A. I believe the first e-mail she sent me, she didn't -- she If you can remove them,
said, "I understand it's business. that's great. Q.
If not, no -- not a problem." And then as they progressed, isn't
That's the first one.
it true she was begging you to take them down? A. I wouldn't say begging. Every e-mail was different. But
to be honest, she kept saying -- sending the same repetitive e-mails so I didn't really -- I didn't take like notice of it because it just seemed like, when I opened them, it was the same e-mail. Q. Did you receive -- this is Plaintiff's Exhibit 1, which It's the And
has already been shown to the jury and witnesses. October 27th, '09 first posting on thedirty.com.
Plaintiff's Exhibit 2 is October 29th, '09, a MySpace message sent to you by Sarah Jones. A. Did you receive that?
Do you have -- could I see it --
Richie - Cross 116 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. Sure. -- just to refresh my memory? Sure. MR. DETERS: THE COURT: MR. DETERS: May I approach, Your Honor? Yes, go ahead. And may I leave this with him? It will
probably be easier because I'm going to go through some. THE COURT: MR. DETERS: THE COURT: MR. DETERS: BY MR. DETERS: Q. A. Q. Just keep that with you. Thank you. It's Exhibit 2. We've got a blue cover sheet in between There's a 39 at the bottom quarter Can you do what? Can I leave this at the stand? Yes. Thank you.
them to help identify. there. A.
Do you remember receiving that message? This is the message
It was sent to my MySpace, yes.
where she said, "If you're unable to do so, I'll understand and move on." Q. Okay. Now turn to page -- Exhibit 3, which is November
1st, '09, removal request to Nik Richie via a g-mail account at 7:09 p.m. A. Do you remember receiving that? And this is one of the To be honest, when I read
Yeah, I received this message.
ones she sent over and over again.
Richie - Cross 117 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 it, she claimed that it was at a charity event; but the image, the post itself, she said it was one event at Benihana or something. If you look at the post, it's actually two So she kind of lied so I just brushed it
different images. off. Q. Okay.
And then Exhibit 4, November 6, '09, removal
request, g-mail account, at 6:58 p.m., is that again the same message that you were talking about? A. Q. Yeah, it's the same e-mail. Exhibit 5, November 8th of '09 at 7:17, again, same
message? A. Q. A. Q. A. Same e-mail. Resent? Yeah. Did you respond to any of these by e-mail? I remember -- not these particular ones, but I remember Yeah, this next one I responded to. November -- Plaintiff's Exhibit 6, 11/9/09,
removal request to Nik Richie via g-mail account at 6:08 a.m., now, this is different. It says, "Hi, thanks for responding." The link -- and she gives the
So you must have responded. link.
It is the fourth one down entitled "Graham Does it "This entire experience has been devastating due to
the fact that someone who obviously doesn't know me very well sent a pic off my Facebook and told you false statements about
Richie - Cross 118 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. me and decided to state that I was a teacher. Not that you
care, but this was the only time I've ever encountered Shayne Graham at a charity event because I refused to associate with the players. can move on. I just want it deleted as soon as possible so I I truly appreciate you doing this for me.
Thanks so much, Nik." A. Yeah. There was no promise of removal. All I asked her
was where the link was. THE COURT: Now it's too soft. THE WITNESS: THE COURT: know I can't. THE WITNESS: DEPUTY CLERK: THE COURT: BY MR. DETERS: A. As I was saying, I responded to the e-mail -THE COURT: Can you hear him, ladies and gentlemen? What that I don't want to bump into it. Just talk into it. I can't hear myself so I apologize. I don't think the jury can hear you. I Before, I think the mike was too loud.
Try it now.
-- as to what I wrote here, what is the link.
is, it's a hyperlink, basically a direct link to what the post was. Because at that time, I honestly, I didn't know who I get tons and tons of submissions, so I was
Sarah Jones was.
trying to see what posts she was talking about. She then, Mr. Deters, sent me the link to the entire
Richie - Cross 119 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Cincinnati section. know. And why I asked for the direct link, because it saves me time in my day so I can evaluate the post right away and either remove it or move on. Q. All right. Plaintiff's Exhibit 7 and Plaintiff's Exhibit And So at that time, I still didn't really
8 are some e-mails to you relative to that link issue. then we get to Plaintiff's Exhibit 9, November 12, '09, removal request, g-mail account, 12:03.
And at the bottom of
the next page, which is the exhibit, it's an e-mail to you. "I had two students come to me today and had a parent call about this web site. People are making comments regarding my This isn't personal
career and I need them off immediately. anymore. educator.
It's affecting my professional career as an I asked a lawyer what I could do to protect myself,
and this is considered defamation because the statements are false. Please remove the link as soon as possible before my Thank you."
other students and colleagues find it. You received that, didn't you? Yes. All right.
Next page, Exhibit 10, November 13th, '09, And again, that was the same e-mail
removal request, 8:45. sent again, right? A. Yeah.
I believe I responded to tell her that she sent me So at that time, I still
all of the Cincinnati section.
Richie - Cross 120 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 was -- once again, I didn't know Sarah Jones. following this. hundred thousand. I wasn't
It's just one post -- this is one post of a So I was just trying to clarify exactly
what the situation was. Q. Okay. And Exhibits 11, 12, and 13, again, she's sending
that e-mail to you again, and you're trying to square away what the post is, right? A. Let me catch up with you. Yes, she sends me the correct
link. Q. All right. And this is Exhibit 14, a November 19, '09 And this is to you -- or no, this
removal request at 12:53.
is -- the end of my last e-mail, "I was 19 years old" -- well, no, this is your e-mail to her. A. Q. That's her e-mail, the 19. Right. But you say, "Not coming down," from you to her. I'm sorry. "I understand" --
At 12:39, you say to her -- and this is Plaintiff's Exhibit 14 -- "Not coming down now. A. Q. A. Correct. What did Graham do to piss you off? I'm trying to remember. It was 2009. It's such a long Graham pissed me off."
time ago, but it's unrelated probably. some sort of nasty letter or something. Q. A. Did he complain about the post? I don't recall.
He must have sent me I don't know.
I don't remember what it was, but it was
something he did publicly or --
Richie - Cross 121 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. You were pretty rough on him, calling him red rocket, his
freckled -- you were rough on him, weren't you? A. I treat -- I don't treat him any different than anyone It was a joke referring to his promiscuity. So then she responds to that at 12:53, Sarah
does, "I understand that he upset you, but can't you just find another picture of him and start a new post? to do with him. I have nothing I literally
The blog is damaging my career.
have never been associated with him. have, but that doesn't include me.
Other girls on the squad I have a serious boyfriend
who I've been dating since high school." A. Yeah, this was the e-mail where she confirmed that Shayne
was having relations with other girls on her cheerleading squad. Q. She says, "I cry every time a new post is made. I showed Your
Students and faculty have asked about it.
site's been blocked districtwide."
And then at 1:07, "To add
to my last e-mail," and that's the one that your counsel covered with Sarah. Now, from that point on, had you decided because Graham had, quote unquote, pissed you off, you weren't going to take it down? A. It was a combination of things. At that time, the
Cincinnati Bengals, you know, the players were getting in a lot of trouble in the media. Sarah was a public figure. She
Richie - Cross 122 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 was a cheerleader. You know, I looked at it as more of a
celebrity-type post, you know, not a private matter. Q. I'm going to violate a rule of lawyering, ask you a Can you name me one NFL cheerleader
question I don't know.
from the Arizona Cardinals? A. If I saw them, I could tell you. I don't know what their
actual names. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A.
I could tell you random names.
You live in Arizona? No, I don't. You live in L.A.? I live in Southern -- Orange County, Southern California. Name one cheerleader from the San Diego Chargers. I'm not a fan of the Chargers, to be honest. Name one NFL cheerleader by name. Kelly. Kelly who? Dillard. What squad? I think Cowboys. Name another. Couldn't tell you. I don't -- I'm not a fan of
cheerleaders -Q. A. Q. Isn't it true --- watching them. Isn't it true that NFL cheerleaders are pretty unknown
Richie - Cross 123 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. figures? I mean, as a squad, people know them as, okay, this
is a Ben-Gal; but individually, not too many people know who they are? A. I wouldn't agree with you. You see them on TV. You see
the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders have their own TV show. Q. You're a man about town, because of your web site you're
in all these cities, and you could only name one cheerleader. A. Because I don't associate myself with them or football
cheerleaders. Q. Plaintiff's Exhibit 16, December 07, '09, second post of We've already covered that. Now, this is a new
Exhibit 17, 12/8/09, removal request. request based upon what you posted.
And she mentions in here,
among other things, "You, however, are enabling people to single-handedly ruin someone else's life. Your rude and
hateful comments about me being a high school teacher are unnecessary and ridiculous. I want them removed immediately."
I mean, she's begging you, isn't she? I don't think -- I wouldn't call this begging. Exhibit 18, 12/8/09 e-mail from -She did lie in that last e-mail. Huh? The last exhibit, she did lie in that e-mail. Well, the I don't know if you --
reason -- the real reason why I read this e-mail and I saw who she cced, and she said it was the district -- the district
Richie - Cross 124 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 principal of the district. I, at the time -- you know, And she said
obviously, I didn't know who Sarah Jones was. she cced, and it was actually Cheryl Jones. Cheryl Jones. Q. A. Q. Okay. So I wanted to cover that.
And I didn't know
I just assumed it was Sarah's mother.
I don't have any questions about Exhibit Number 18 and Okay, Exhibit 19, 12/09/09, e-mail to Nik Richie.
And this is from Cheryl Jones on Tim Jones', her father's account. A. Yeah. Now, you received this e-mail, right? It was confusing to me because I thought it was
coming from her father and it wasn't. Q. All right. It says, "I e-mailed the other night and I don't know if you have kids
asked you to remove the posts.
or even care, but please understand your web site is ruining a career and a beautiful young woman. not very pretty. than the outside. moral reputation. Maybe in your mind she's
Pretty on the inside is much more important The girl's lived her life building a strong She's never had a drink in her life." On 12/9/09, other than
I've got to ask you a question.
what you allowed to be posted, the chlamydia and the gonorrhea and sex with every Bengal, other than those postings, what's in there, can you name me -- as you're sitting there right now, Mr. Richie, could you name me one thing about Sarah Jones, other than those, that spoke to a bad reputation, as of
Richie - Cross 125 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 12/9/09? A. Q. I'm not understanding. All right. At 12/9/09, it's Sarah's position, all the
way up to February 1st -- or excuse me, until your postings -that she had a good reputation. In other words, before the And then
October, '09 posting, she had a great reputation. you did these postings. Okay?
Can you name one thing, from the time that she was born through high school, college, teaching career -A. Q. I don't know Sarah. Can you name one bad thing about her, that you know
about, or you knew about at the time, on 12/09, up till your first October, '09 posting? her that you knew? A. Once again, I don't know Sarah Jones. I don't know her Can you name one thing bad about
All I know is when people submit to my site, I ask
them, through the submission, for truthful and honest posts. So there's no way of me telling you if what was true could have been true. Q. I believed it was true, you know.
So isn't it true, the only witness that you're going to
call relating to her reputation is going to be Cindy Molony? She's going to be called? A. Q. Sure. Yes. Other than what she's going to testify to,
though, you cannot dispute her position that she had a great
Richie - Cross 126 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 reputation until your posts? A. You can't dispute that, can you?
That's like saying Lance Armstrong won all the Tour de It makes no sense.
Frances, he never doped or anything. Q. A. Q. I'm glad you brought that up. Okay.
Isn't it true that until the doping scandal broke, isn't
it true -A. Q. He lied to everybody. Yeah. But isn't it true up till that time, his Beat
reputation in the general public was outstanding? testicular cancer. Won the Tour de France.
Isn't it true
that it was stellar until the doping scandal broke? A. Mr. Deters, you know, when I look at these -- at least
when I look at The Dirty, I look at people and I want to see the best out of people. people. lying. Q. A. Q. No. You know, I want the truth out of
What you're telling me is, why didn't Lance just keep That's what I'm getting from you. Sarah Jones -That's wrong.
That's just wrong.
Sarah Jones' reputation -- I'm going to move on. Plaintiff's Exhibit 20 is the last posting about with her
and the lollipop.
Exhibit 21, 12/28/09, removal request to "I am begging you,
Nik Richie via g-mail account at 2:38 p.m.
before you ruin my reputation, to please remove my photos from your web site." And you respond, "Did you e-mail remove
Richie - Cross 127 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 thedirty.com? A. Also, what are the links?"
Correct, because at that time, I still -- as much as
Sarah was e-mailing me, I still didn't remember her from the other e-mails. So I was still -- like I didn't know Sarah
Jones, so I was trying to get -- refresh my memory on what she was talking about. Q. A. Q. A. So despite being a public figure, you didn't know her? Despite being what? A public figure, you didn't know her? Well, what I'm saying is that I didn't know who this
e-mail was from. Q. Now, the next e-mail, she sends you the links that you
request on December 28th, 2:09. A. Q. Correct. And then you respond, December 28th, 2009, 5:08, to her,
"Removal Department, please do not remove anything until we get okay from Legal. According to the press, she had sued us
so freeze everything for now." A. Q. Yeah. So the fact that she sued you, then you weren't going to
take anything down? A. No, it wasn't that. It was the Associated Press released
something that you guys sued Dirty World, is it Recording, something like that? Q. Dirty World.
Richie - Cross 128 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. No, Dirty World -Entertaining, LLC. Yeah, the wrong web site. I believe it's dirt.com or
something like that.
And at that time, you know, generally
when stuff like this happens, when you sue something, you know, media picks up, which they did, and they basically reprinted all of Sarah's posts on other web sites. So it just
made it more public so there was no point in removal because they were on other sites. Q. Exhibit 24, December 28th, '09, fourth posting -- let's Isn't it true that if you removed
stop there for a minute.
the postings, you wouldn't have been sued? A. Q. I don't know. If you would have sued me, yes.
I'm going to mark this Plaintiff's Exhibit 44. MR. DETERS: THE COURT: May I approach, Your Honor? Go ahead. And isn't it true that
This is Plaintiff's Exhibit 44.
Sarah Jones sent, from her g-mail account, a request, like you said she needed to -- and the date's on there. I think. A. Q. Yeah, this is of the same time. She sent the removal to the place that you told her she December 9th,
needed to send the removal to? A. Yeah, but this is after the fact. Because you look at
the dates, they don't match.
This was during the same time I
Richie - Cross 129 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. asked her to freeze it. Q. Well, December 9th, '09, she sent it to you to be
removed, right? A. Yeah, but this is after the lawsuit. MR. DETERS: Your Honor, I move to introduce this
exhibit, Plaintiff's Exhibit 44. THE COURT: MR. GINGRAS: THE COURT: Any objection? No, Your Honor. Let it be admitted.
(Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 24 admitted into evidence.) Now, Exhibit 24 of the plaintiff's, December 28th, '09, And that's when you
is the fourth posting on thedirty.com. brag about your legal team, right? A. Q. A. Where? Exhibit 24. Yeah.
This was submitted in reference to the lawsuit Someone submitted it. It was
that was all over the media. another lawyer, obviously.
And I wrote as a joke, Cochran Cochran
Kardashian, is what I joke I call my lawyer.
Kardashian is kind of like he's a mix between Johnny Cochran and Robert Kardashian. Q. Now, Exhibit 26 is the fifth posting. And that's when Right?
you included a picture of other cheerleaders, correct? A.
Yeah, I said something I just saw on the Huffington Post,
which is another web site, about the Bengals cheerleading
Richie - Cross 130 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 squad. Q. Made a comment about how ugly they were. You heard
Sarah's testimony about how it started causing friction -A. Q. A. Q. I didn't call them ugly. The Dirty Army did. It's the comments. Let's read your comment. "I think they all should be Note
kicked off and the Cincinnati Bengals should start over. to self: A. Never try to battle The Dirty Army."
Yeah, I was referencing it because now she made the story
a million times bigger and it was on national web sites like the Huffington Post, pretty much like, you know, it magnified this thing times 50 when it didn't need to be. Q. Now, isn't it true that Sarah Jones, because she sued
you, was punished even more because she did? A. Q. That was Sarah Jones' doing, not mine. I accept that if that's your position. In other words,
she filed it so she paid that price, right? A. Q. I can't control what Sarah Jones does. You can control what thedirty.com, though, because you
run it and you're the editor. A. Correct. But all I was doing was duplicating articles
from other media sources. Q. All right. I got to ask you some more questions here to
You have been on television shows, correct?
Richie - Cross 131 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. Yes. Talking about your site? Yes. Including "20/20," "Anderson Cooper," "Nancy Grace,"
"Dr. Drew," and "Dr. Phil"? A. Q. Correct. And isn't it true that on November 11th, 2010, you
appeared on "Dr. Phil" to discuss your web site, and it was called "Dirt, Lies, and the Internet"? A. Q. A. Q. A. Correct. And you've seen this episode, correct? Yes. Why did you go on that? I went on -- sorry. I went on the show because the
person that was on the show -- I believe her name was Britta, Bruta -- she was an aspiring model, and I went there to give two sides to the story. Because originally, they were
planning on just having her go on the show, similar like what Sarah was doing going on those shows. I always said, hey, you So that's
know, can I at least speak my side of the story. why I went on that show. Q. A. Okay.
And it's edited because it was actually three other web
sites, but they cut it down to one actual other -- two other web sites. Facebook was excluded. But they edited it into
Richie - Cross 132 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 just The Dirty. Q. Isn't it true, though, that the show that appeared on
television, that the things that it shows you saying are accurate? In other words, I understand that not all the
footage that was shot went into the show, but isn't it true that everything that is spoken by you on the "Dr. Phil" show, on November 11th, 2010, as it aired, was true? A. I don't know. It's sensationalized. When you go on
shows like this, they're talk shows. ratings.
They're there for the
They're looking for Jerry Springer-type reaction.
And they were kind of using this show to kind of show the Internet, you know, there are people out there, how to protect yourself. I'm for that. I promote that. I don't -- I don't
look at my site and say, hey, who am I going to ruin today. It doesn't work like that. Q. It's very open-ended.
Well, you gained, did you not, from going on this show,
because "Dr. Phil" has a huge national audience, so you going on this show benefitted you? A. I would say yes, I would agree. You know, anytime you go I've done, you
on these talk shows or you talk on radio.
know, a hundred different appearances for just different media things. Q. It's to promote the web site.
Now, when I play this for viewing to the jury, are you
saying that when it shows you speaking, that the words coming out of your mouth have been edited and they're not your words?
Richie - Cross 133 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 You're not saying that, are you? A. No, but on the show, Dr. Phil put me in a corner and
named names of people that were not even related to thedirty.com, and he was just trying to get my reaction out of it. Q. A. Okay. But it's an accurate depiction of what you said?
Well, the words out of my mouth, but I am an entertainer. I did a TV show.
You know what I mean? Q. A. Q. A. Q. A.
Strategically speaking? What do you mean? Did you strategically speak on there? No. Have you ever told a lie? Of course. THE COURT: Let's nail down whether the disk is
accurate or not.
Does the disk show what you said? I don't believe it's -- sorry. I don't
believe it's a depiction of my character, no. THE COURT: No, all we're asking, the question is --
it's a simple one -- does the disk show what you -THE WITNESS: THE COURT: THE WITNESS: THE COURT: MR. DETERS: Yes. -- said? Yes, Your Honor. All right. Your Honor, I do not have a laptop on me
Richie - Cross 134 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 upon. MR. GINGRAS: of this at all. at the moment. THE COURT: MR. DETERS: MR. GINGRAS: THE COURT: You can play it through that. Okay. Good.
Your Honor, may we approach? All right. (Bench conference.) Your Honor, I don't see the relevance
I think he's trying to impeach him with prior
consistent statements. THE COURT: to show malice. MR. DETERS: MR. GINGRAS: THE COURT: Right. By using another conduct -He says in the transcript -- it's been a I'm checking No, I ruled on this before trial. It was
month or so since I read it -- those things. them out. MR. DETERS: MR. GINGRAS: just don't understand. duplicative. MR. DETERS: MR. GINGRAS: check facts. Right. Right.
It's undisputed that that's true. I think it's irrelevant.
I think it's
Will he stipulate he did it for malice? No, he's going to testify he doesn't
He's already testified to that. Your Honor, this has already been ruled
You said if he verifies it.
Richie - Cross 135 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 THE COURT: transcript. overruled. (Bench conference concluded.) MR. DETERS: Your Honor, we have a laptop in the car. I did rule on it. I've read the Objection's
I think it goes to show malice.
We can play it through that. THE COURT: MR. DETERS: THE COURT: Fine with me. Thank you. All right. We'll take 15 minutes.
Ladies and gentlemen, continue to heed the admonition of the Court. (The jury left the courtroom at 1:49 p.m.) (Recess at 1:49 p.m. until 2:10 p.m.) THE COURT: MR. GINGRAS: Are we ready? Your Honor, before we begin, I'd like Can I
to renew my objection and clarify what I said before. do that? THE COURT: speak from there. MR. GINGRAS: Yeah. The jury's not here.
Your Honor, just to be perfectly clear,
we're objecting to the playing of the video under both Rule 403 and 404(b) of the Federal Rules of Evidence. And, Your Honor, if you recall, at the start of this case, you met in your chambers, you said that this was an important case and you wanted to have a very clean record to
Richie - Cross 136 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 go to make sure that either side, if they wanted to appeal, wouldn't get bogged down with a lot of collateral issues. Well, here we have one, Your Honor. If you allow this video to be played, which is absolutely irrelevant to anything to do in this case and the only purpose that it's being offered for is to show that some other person had a negative experience, which may or may not have been true, Your Honor, I believe you're going to commit reversible error on that issue and we're going to have a much more complicated appeal than necessary. video on that basis. Mr. Richie's already testified as to the way the web site's run so the video's not going to help us on that, and all we're going to do is hear another person crying about how someone posted negative comments. That is irrelevant, and So we object to the
that's exactly what 403 -- 404(b) precludes. MR. DETERS: THE COURT: MR. DETERS: Among many things, this shows -I thought it just showed Mr. Richie? No, this show shows Dr. Phil and a --
and a person that he's vilified, and it explains how he runs his site. THE COURT: MR. DETERS: That I recall. Goes to support malice. It also
contradicts some of his testimony already on the stand. THE COURT: I think it's relevant for other reasons
Richie - Cross 137 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 besides what I said before. First it's relevant to show the
existence of malice; not malice in the common parlance like you hate somebody, but malice in the libel sense if you're posting things frivolously or with an improper motive to take money out of it. MR. GINGRAS: THE COURT: Your Honor -And I think further that if the jury
decides to award punitive damages, this is relevant to the amount of punitive damages they might want to award. objection is overruled. MR. GINGRAS: Your
I ruled on this a month ago at least. Your Honor, I don't believe you allowed
the entire video to be played. Your Honor, the other issue is, there is a second appearance on "Dr. Phil" when Mr. Richie went back. praised him. Praised him. Dr. Phil
And now I wouldn't even attempt to
offer that video because I don't think it's relevant, but it certainly would be necessary to respond to this one. MR. DETERS: Your Honor, we were supposed to, under I submitted this as part of our He didn't.
26(a) -- I got beat up.
exhibits and what we're going to use long ago.
Based on a subsequent "Dr. Phil" video, he never did -THE COURT: MR. DETERS: THE COURT: I ruled on this a month ago. I know you did. I agree, you did. It's admissible.
I said it's admissible.
You have your objection.
You can have an exception.
Richie - Cross 138 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 here. THE COURT: MR. DETERS: THE COURT: Okay. The transcript -Well, can you edit out what the other it. that. MR. DETERS: THE COURT: There's no commercials so it's nice. Refresh my recollection. Who else is on it? Dr. Phil is on MR. GINGRAS: THE COURT: Thank you, Your Honor. I don't think it's necessary anymore. I
don't think it's necessary anymore. All right. How long is it? MR. DETERS: THE COURT: It's about 36 minutes, Your Honor. Oh, okay. I thought it was longer than Bring in the jury. Play them the video.
Mr. Richie's on it. MR. DETERS:
Somebody that was a victim of the site,
for lack of a better word. MR. GINGRAS: object to. Your Honor, and that's the part we
We don't know if this person was a victim because This woman never
we have no opportunity to conduct discovery.
sued Nik, never filed a lawsuit, never asked for $11 million. We don't know if she's coming -THE COURT: I think that part is -- I don't remember
that part from the transcript I read. MR. DETERS: Your Honor, the transcript is what's on
Richie - Cross 139 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 you want. MR. DETERS: Well, would you like me to edit -- how person said, because she's not here to be cross-examined. MR. DETERS: THE COURT: asked questions. MR. GINGRAS: Well, and, Your Honor, you just helped Again, Well, neither is Dr. Phil. Well, he didn't hire -- well, he just
me out with a hearsay objection as well to the extent. I don't -- the part that I'm concerned about is not Mr. Richie. And also -Okay. Then we'll play Mr. Richie.
THE COURT: MR. DETERS:
The other thing, Your Honor, you ruled
is I'm allowed to use other examples of people -THE COURT: Yeah, but you have to have evidence.
They have to be in evidence. MR. DETERS: THE COURT: Okay. So you can ask him about that woman if
do you want me to edit this tape? THE COURT: Well, can you, when you get to what she
says, fast-forward it? MR. DETERS: THE COURT: Yes, I can. She participated in dialogue? I only
recall him and Dr. Phil on there. transcript. MR. GINGRAS:
Maybe I had a different
Your Honor, if I could also add one
Richie - Cross 140 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that. of? MR. DETERS: THE COURT: Yes, it is, Your Honor. All right. Well, I think we can explain Act. other thing. objection. And I'm not even sure how to explain this I was on this TV show with Mr. Richie. I sat
there and talked to Dr. Phil because he asked me to be there and explain the law to him. I'm deeply concerned.
First of all, I argued the Communications Decency I explained it to Dr. Phil. At the time I made that or
had that discussion with him, Your Honor had not ruled on the Communications Decency Act issue in this case. And I'm deeply
concerned that if the jury sees me talking about that legal issue -THE COURT: Is this the same one I saw the transcript
You have your interpretation of the law; I have mine. Either some other
I think I'm right; you think you're right.
court will decide it or Congress will change the law, whatever. I, myself, do not think -- as I've said before, the law was ever intended to be interpreted this way, and the Ninth Circuit correctly recognized an exception to it where people -- the sole purpose of the site is to publish legal material. Now, I'm not concerned about what Counsel says. can make his argument wherever it's heard. I am concerned He
Richie - Cross 141 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 about this witness, this woman that's on there, who's not here to be cross-examined. MR. DETERS: tell you this. That's hearsay. Is Shayne the wife? Your Honor, I can
The first six, seven pages of the transcript, So I want the
the witness does not come on until page 8.
Court to know that I think that we could go from there -- I mean, we could take this to a -- I'm just offering this. could get on -- I could send one of my staff members to go edit out her comments and questions, and then we -THE COURT: MR. DETERS: thing in the morning. THE COURT: All right. If we can do that, then edit That's what we usually do. Okay. And I'll have it ready first We
out -- can you edit out counsel as well -MR. DETERS: THE COURT: them both out. Yes. -- since he's concerned about that? Edit
I'm just admitting what Mr. Richie said. Okay. Of course, as I recall what Dr. Phil
MR. DETERS: THE COURT:
said, he just asked him questions. MR. DETERS: edit out everything -THE COURT: what this woman said. MR. WARD: Your Honor, I'm not trying to interject Edit out what counsel said and edit out Okay. So we'll edit out -- so we'll
Richie - Cross 142 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 today. MR. DETERS: Okay. And, Your Honor, tomorrow morning sir. too much. There is one part where Dr. Phil starts talking to
Nik about the impact of his conduct on the law and Dr. Phil's opinion of what that is on the law. I think that that
probably should come out because Dr. Phil says, You know this is going to affect your court cases going forward, or something like that. law. THE COURT: that much. I don't know that that will hurt anything It's like Dr. Phil's commentary on the
There's been a lot said about the law, by the Well, some of it isn't even controversial Others, some other higher court will have
witness and others. that's not the law. to decide. Okay.
So you can go on with other things. Yeah, we'll go on with other things,
I'll continue to cross-examine him, and then I think
we're going to call a witness out of turn after I'm finished crossing him. THE COURT: MR. WARD: Okay. We might not have to if the video's not
too, we'll redact everything in the transcript except Dr. Phil and Nik. THE COURT: this all the time. Okay. That's the way to do it. You do
Richie - Cross 143 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Bring the jury back in now? ready to have the jury come back? MR. DETERS: THE COURT: Yes. Okay. Yes. Yes. Mr. Deters, are you
Bring the jury back. The jury's in.
COURT SECURITY OFFICER:
(The jury entered the courtroom at 2:13 p.m.) THE COURT: gentlemen. All right. Good afternoon, ladies and
We were having some technical problems with the
video so we'll proceed with other evidence and show that in the morning. You may proceed.
BY MR. DETERS: Q. Isn't it true that you operate this web site -- well, I just want to get a You have -- what is this
first off, I got to ask you this.
clarification if there's any reason. first name? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q.
I don't want to mispronounce it.
It's Hooman Karamian. Okay. Yes. Okay. What nationality is that? And is that your birth name?
It's Iranian. Okay. And you're from immigrant -- I'm not saying You're immigrants. Your mother and father were
immigrants, correct? MR. GINGRAS: THE COURT: Objection, Your Honor; relevance. Well, he has these three names. I don't
Richie - Cross 144 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 think there's anything too prejudicial about being an immigrant. We're all -Right. Yeah.
MR. DETERS: BY MR. DETERS: A. Q. A. Q. A.
They moved out here from Iran. Okay. I was born in New Jersey. Okay. Corbin Grimes?
That was my -- I was a music -- I did music management
for hip hop stuff. Q. A. Okay. I use that like -- kind of like how Puff Daddy and I was always Hooman Karamian aka Corbin Grimes. It
was a name that I used as my middle name. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Okay. Then Nik Lamas Richie is your adopted name?
That's my -- yeah. Okay. And Lamas is?
My wife's last name, Shayne Lamas. All right. Now, you operate this web site without any
office. A. Q. Yes.
You do it from a laptop, correct?
And you have subcontractors and about four paid
employees, correct? A. Q. Yes. And you look for the stuff that's more realistic, in your
Richie - Cross 145 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 opinion; and you're like the lifeguard, correct? A. Yes. If I didn't -- if I just let every post go up, then
you'd have -- you know, you could have rape, you could have really bad things. possible. Q. Okay. Do you remember when I took your deposition by So I try to protect the site as best as
video? A. Q.
We mentioned that at the outset of your testimony.
Yes. Do you remember testifying that you control comments and
you delete stuff and that you look for stuff that is more truthful? A. Q. Yes. And when your name appears on the web site, Nik, that is, In other words, when you have "Nik" next to
in fact, you?
something, that is you? A. When contact comes, people upload it, and the nonbolded
Dirty Army part, that's the third party; and then the bolded beneath it is my little commentary. Q. And you work 12 hours a day editing, and this is a 24/7
job that you eat, breathe, and sleep? A. Q. A. Q. Yeah. Okay. It's part of my life. And the Removal Committee is you?
My lawyer removes stuff, you know, from time to time. And it's your job to put up truth -- stuff that you
believe is truthful?
Richie - Cross 146 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Well, once again, I'm not a fact checker, but I don't put
up stuff that I read that is not anything -- that, you know, is too crazy. anything. Q. I've got to make sure that I don't miss anything. I mentioned before about lying. everybody lies, correct? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. I didn't say everybody. Okay. I've admitted to lying before. You say you've lied, I don't want -- it's not a porn site or
Have you lied by text message?
I don't recall. Have you ever lied to the police? I don't recall. Have you ever lied to your mother? I don't recall. Have you ever lied to your wife? No. Okay. When you say you don't recall, that means you may
have; you just don't remember? A. Well, I'm thinking in my head when I was a little kid,
you know. Q. A. Q. Okay. Elementary school or something. Okay. Isn't it true the fact that you put -- you allowed
these posts to go up and stay, that that was an intentional act on your part? In other words, you intended these posts to
Richie - Cross 147 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 go up, and you intended them to stay? A. Q. No. I remove a lot. I remove like 20 posts a day.
I'm talking about Sarah's, the ones at issue in this You intended those to go up, and you intended them to
stay, correct? A. Q. A. Q. No, because I removed them. Well, you removed them after the default, right? Yeah, but that wasn't why. Well, isn't it true that a year went by before you
removed them? A. Q. No. Let's assume -- well, first of all, do you believe Sarah
had gonorrhea and chlamydia? A. You know, I couldn't tell you if she was lying or telling
the truth. Q. Okay. If she did not -- in other words, if she did not
have chlamydia and gonorrhea -- don't you agree that allowing that to be posted is offensive? A. Q. A. You're asking me if like -Yeah, if? What if she has it, though? I don't understand what
It's like if I was a football player, I would
score a touchdown. MR. DETERS: Honor, at this time. That's all the questions I have, Your
Molony - Direct 148 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MS. MATTINGLY: Q. Good afternoon, Ms. Molony. Honor. THE COURT: All right. Ladies and gentlemen, because THE COURT: MR. DETERS: MR. GINGRAS: You reserve the right to play the video? Yes. Yes.
Your Honor, I think we're going to go
out of turn because we have a witness waiting. THE COURT: MR. DETERS: THE COURT: THE WITNESS: THE COURT: That's fine. I consent to this. You can step down, Mr. Richie. Thank you. Who's witness is it, defense? It's the defendant's witness, Your
of the witness' schedule, they're going to call the witness out of turn. that video. The plaintiff hasn't rested yet. He still has
This is going to be a defense witness. Your Honor, the defendants call
MS. MATTINGLY: Kristy Molony. THE COURT: THE CLERK:
Come around, ma'am. Raise your right hand.
DEFENSE WITNESS, KRISTY MOLONY, SWORN THE COURT: All right. You may ask.
Thank you, Your Honor.
Molony - Direct 149 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. Hi. How are you? Good. Thank you for being here. Now, you're here today
pursuant to a subpoena that we issued to you, correct? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Yes. Okay. Yes. Okay. No. Tell the jury a little bit about yourself. Do you live You didn't just volunteer to show up, right? And that compelled you to be here, correct?
around here? A. Q. A. Q. A. I do. Okay. I've lived in Kenton County all my life. In which town do you currently reside?
Edgewood. Okay. I do. Do you have any family? I have three children; and one is 23, one is 19,
and the other one is 14. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Okay. Where are you currently employed?
At Dixie Heights High School with Kenton County Schools. And how long have you been employed at Dixie? Since 2000, August of 2000. And prior to that, did you teach anywhere else, or was
that your first teaching position? A. That was my second one. I was in Cincinnati, Cincinnati
Molony - Direct 150 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Public Schools. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Okay. What do you teach?
Social studies, mainly world civ. And what ages? Sophomores. Do you know the plaintiff, Sarah Jones? Yes, I do. Can you tell the jury how you know her? She taught at Dixie with me. Okay. When did you first meet her? I would say probably '08, I
The day -- when she started.
think she started at Dixie, but I can't be for sure. Q. All right. Now, are you aware of what Ms. Jones'
reputation was during her career at Dixie, specifically involving her relationships with students? A. Q. Only speculation. Okay. Can you give me -- and for this jury, tell us what
you believe your opinion of her reputation with students is. A. I didn't think it was inappropriate except for the
closeness that she seemed to develop with students just calling her by her first name. Q. A. Q. A. And that's really all I heard.
Was that common for students to do with other teachers? No, absolutely not. So that was unique to Ms. Jones? Yes.
Molony - Direct 151 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. Do you allow students to call you by your first name? I do not. Okay. Do you have any knowledge of any conduct, other
conduct, by Sarah you consider to be inappropriate for a teacher? A. Q. A. No, I do not. Was it common for teachers to text students? I don't know. I mean, I can't specifically answer that It's not something that -- it's
For myself, no.
something that's frowned upon. Q. And when you say it is frowned upon, who frowns upon
that? A. I would say the administration and the profession
overall. Q. What about having students as, quote, friends on
Facebook? A. I personally have never had a social media network. I've
never been on the web sites at all.
And we have just recently
been told by the Board that really is not something that's acceptable when they, before that, swayed us away from it but didn't restrict us from it. Q. Did you ever have any conversations with Ms. Jones about
her relationships with students? A. Q. Can you be more specific? Have you ever spoken with Ms. Jones about what is
Molony - Direct 152 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 appropriate or inappropriate interactions with the students? A. Q. A. Yes. Can you please tell the jury about that? She came into my room before school started one day and
said that she had heard that I was saying things about her at school. Q. A. Q. A. Had you been saying things about her at school? No, I had not. Okay. She had said that she had heard that -- I can't remember But basically,
the context. It's been a couple years ago.
that she had heard that I was saying things behind her back or spreading rumors. said no. I don't know which word she used. And I
And she said, "You've never said anything about me?"
And I said, "The only thing I have against you is the fact that you allow students to call you by your first name." Q. Did she say anything in response to you during that
conversation? A. After -- I mean, like I say, I just can't say. It She
probably lasted all of five minutes, the conversation.
said that, yeah, some students had called her by her first name. I said, you're really not supposed to let that happen.
I said, it's disrespectful to you, as well as teaching in general. And she said that there had been some comments made
to her by students and she really wasn't sure how to deal with
Molony - Direct 153 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 them. And I may not be using the exact words that she used.
And I said that you really had to shut them down; that you had to shut it down or you had to ignore it, depending on the severity of the comment. And she suggested to the fact that I was somewhat more experienced than her, obviously teaching longer, and that I may have had those kind of comments said to me in my earlier years. room. And it was kind of laughed off, and then she left the I assured her that if she ever had anything to question
me about or talk to me about, she was more than welcome to come in my room. Q. Okay. And can you be a little more specific about she
said that you suggested you might have had these comments made about you earlier in your career. we talking about? A. I don't -- "inappropriate" was the words that were being And it all stemmed from calling her At that time, we didn't What kind of comments are
used, nothing specific.
by her first name, I mean, really.
talk about texting or anything like that. Q. Do you believe that her relationship and her interactions
with students might have led them -- might have fostered that, for them to think that that's okay for them to do? A. yes. Q. Okay. Did Sarah's role as a Ben-Gal cheerleader affect I don't think it was an intentional thing if she did, but
Molony - Direct 154 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 her reputation at the school? A. Q. A. Adversely? Just in any way. I mean, was it something --
Well, I'm sure her popularity was there because she was But as far as a bad thing,
known to be a Ben-Gal cheerleader.
like people talking bad about her, I don't necessarily think that. I mean, just the fact that she was a Ben-Gal
cheerleader, I don't think that would be the result of some things that may or may not have been said. Q. Okay. Now, did your reputation -- did your opinion of
Ms. Jones change in a negative way as a result of the postings on thedirty.com, or did you even know about them? A. I did not even know about the postings on thedirty.com I'm not even quite
until well after it was said and done. sure how I knew.
Like I said, last year, my son was a senior
at Dixie, and there were talks among students that there was a web site. But I can be honest with you, I don't think I even
saw, to this day, the web site comments personally. Q. Okay. And Ms. Jones has testified that after the
postings went up and before she filed this lawsuit, that it was kind of the talk amongst school that students were talking about it, teachers were talking about it. But from your At least you
testimony, it seems that that wasn't the case. didn't know about it, correct? A.
I didn't know about what was said on the web site.
Molony - Direct 155 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 did not. Q. And would you consider yourself to -- well, do you have
friends at school, other teachers? A. Q. A. Q. Oh, sure. And you talk to people on a regular basis, correct? Yes. Okay. Yes. If something is the talk of the school, would you
think -- do you typically hear about it if it is the talk of the school? A. Q. Yes. Okay. Do you believe that Sarah's own actions had any
effect on her reputation as a teacher at Dixie Heights High School? A. Q. Again, adversely? Any actions. In any way?
Not anything in particular, but, yes, just
any of her own actions. A. Really, I think on my part, that would be speculation. I mean, I didn't see the adverse effect take And, you know, I don't I
place until the last couple years.
know if that was the result of the web site or the other thing. Q. I don't know. Now, Sarah's counsel has brought up Zeke Pike and
questioned her about any relationships that she had with Zeke Pike. Have you ever heard anything about that or do you know
anything about that?
Molony - Direct 156 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. I don't know anything about an inappropriate
relationship, just a conversation that I did have with Zeke Pike. Q. A. And what was that? Sophomore year, his sophomore year. I know this because
it would have also been my son's sophomore year. Q. A. Q. A. And what year would that have been? '09-2010. Okay. I had him in class. And I totally believe, 100 percent
sure, that was the only time he was ever in my classroom, under my supervision, and he asked if he could go to his girlfriend's room. And I felt that funny because his current
girlfriend, on and off again, I guess, was in my room at the time. And I said, "I don't know who you're talking about," I said, "I'm not sure which Sarah I honestly drew a blank when he said
and he said, "Sarah's." you're talking about." that.
And he pointed above me, and her room was above me. And I said, "You mean Ms. Jones?" And he said, "Yeah,
And I said, "You really shouldn't call her that."
And no, I didn't let him go. And then another student was in the room, or a couple other students in the room, said she lets us call her Sarah; she doesn't have a problem with that. And I said -- and I
looked at Zeke and said, you shouldn't call her your
Molony - Cross 157 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MR. DETERS: Q. Based upon your knowledge of Sarah Jones and her girlfriend. It's inappropriate and disrespectful, not just to
her but to all teachers, that you would call her by her first name. Q. A. Q. And he said that she didn't mind, she didn't care.
And did that concern you? Sure, it did. Okay. And that's not something -- is that something that
you would have allowed as a teacher? A. No. My kids have friends there, and I've known them I've known Zeke forever. And they've always called
me by my first name, but not at school. Q. A. And you said it was the '09 or 2010 school year, correct Yeah, the school year that ran from '09 to '10. Sorry.
That would have been the sophomore year.
And I teach only
sophomores, and I did have Zeke in my class. Q. Do you know what time of year it was, whether it would be
fall or winter or spring? A. Q. A. It would have been fall or winter. Okay. We have three terms, three trimesters. MS. MATTINGLY: that I have for you. CROSS-EXAMINATION Thank you, Ms. Molony. That's all
reputation in the community, particularly at Dixie Heights
Molony - Redirect 158 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MS. MATTINGLY: Q. Now, you said that her reputation was good, but that's High School, isn't it true that up until the scandal at Dixie Heights with Cody York, isn't it true that Sarah Jones' reputation was good? A. Q. I would believe so, up until that time. Okay. MR. DETERS: THE COURT: Thank you. Anything else for this witness? Your Honor, just one follow-up.
MS. MATTINGLY: THE COURT:
Okay. REDIRECT EXAMINATION
notwithstanding the concerns that you previously discussed, correct? A. Right. It was the concerns -- I mean, I don't want to
venture into water-fountain talk or whatever, but it was just the first-name calling possibly, and then there were rumors, of course, about texting. But as far as inappropriate
behavior, I personally did not hear relationship things with students. room. But I kind of keep myself secluded in my own little
So I don't think that it was a damaging reputation that
she had prior to the web site or the scandal. Q. Okay. But these were concerns that you have and things
that, as a teacher, you would not have allowed or thought to be appropriate for yourself, correct?
Molony - Recross 159 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MR. DETERS: Q. A. Q. A. Q. I tried to keep it short. You're fine. This thing with -- how long have you been a teacher? I've been a teacher for 17 years. Isn't it true that high school boys and their A. I absolutely would not have allowed, and I know that the
profession tells us not to allow those things. Q. And all these things that we're talking about, these
occurred prior to her -- the public knowledge about her relationship with Cody York, correct? A. Q. Yes, ma'am. And prior to you having any knowledge of anything posted
on this web site, correct? A. Yes. MS. MATTINGLY: Thank you. That's all I have.
testosterone sometimes gets away from them? A. Q. Yes. And like, for example, Zeke Pike and other boys saying,
you know, "That's my girlfriend," and asking teachers to proms and all that, that goes on, doesn't it? A. Q. A. I've heard of it. Your son, Mike Molony -Yes.
Molony - Recross 160 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. -- was in her class? Yes. Loved her? He -- yeah. He never complained. As a matter of fact, I
have the capability, because I teach there, to choose the schedule; and I believe Ms. Jones was new the same year that class came as freshmans, and I chose her as a teacher because I'm familiar with her mother. Q. It sounds like you gave her some good advice; that you
need to put a little wall up there -A. Q. I tried. -- you know, relative to texting, Facebook, first names,
because as an experienced teacher, you understand how those young men could take advantage of that? A. Q. You hear about it all the time, yes. Right. And you're saying that the school's now adopted a
policy, no more -- you shouldn't have Facebook? A. That you should not have. I don't think they've actually
barred us from it, but it's actually been in discussion at the beginning of the school years now that we really shouldn't have social media contact. Q. And it sounds like you two handled that situation very
professionally in your dialogue? A. Q. Um-hmm. I think so.
Molony - Recross 161 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 about. THE COURT: MR. DETERS: THE COURT: All right. Yes. All right. You might as well get started Just the video? A. I didn't think another thing of it when she walked out of
my classroom. Q. A. And her reputation was good? Just the little -- I mean, letting people call her by her
first name, perceived to let them call her by her first name. Q. But that's an isolated thing. That's not the big-picture
Big-picture reputation was good?
I think so. MR. DETERS: THE COURT: Thank you. Anything else? Nothing further, Your Honor. You may step down, ma'am.
MS. MATTINGLY: THE COURT: Thanks for coming in.
(The witness was excused.) THE COURT: MR. DETERS: Do you have anything further, Mr. Deters? No. I mean, just what we already talked
with your part of the witness. MR. GINGRAS: Well, I thought a short break would be
in order to let me get my laptop plugged in. THE COURT: All right. That will be fine. I'm sure
the jury won't object.
162 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 15. (The jury left the courtroom at 2:36 p.m.) (Recess at 2:36 p.m. until 2:59 p.m.) THE COURT: So we're going to proceed with your It will be direct, your All right. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll have another
break, again to get set up for the next part of the case. Continue to heed the admonition of the Court. the case among yourselves. Do not discuss
If you have any access to any We'll be in recess.
media, don't use it for this purpose. How much time do you need? MR. GINGRAS: THE COURT: Ten. All right.
We'll be in recess.
direct examination of Mr. Richie? side of the case. MR. GINGRAS: THE COURT: witnesses? MR. DETERS: MR. GINGRAS: THE COURT:
It will be direct and it will be short. Okay. And do you have any other
No, Your Honor. No, Your Honor. Well, good. We will finish tomorrow. Okay. Bring them in, I
can get these instructions done. please. COURT SECURITY OFFICER:
(The jury entered the courtroom at 3:00 p.m.) THE COURT: Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.
Richie - Direct 163 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MR. GINGRAS: Q. Nik, we've heard a lot about Sarah Jones so far in this THE COURT: MR. GINGRAS: MR. GINGRAS: I'm sure you'll be glad to hear, unless something very unforeseen occurs, we should be able to finish tomorrow. have this one last witness and the video to play in the morning, and then we'll be ready to take it to the jury. you may be seated and call this witness. Call your witness. MR. GINGRAS: THE COURT: Mr. Richie. Your Honor, defendants call Nik Richie. All right. You're already under oath, So We
This will be on direct examination. Your Honor, can we approach for one
second very, very quick? THE COURT: Okay. (Bench conference.) I just wanted to make sure, Your Honor,
because we've done a few things out of order, that the plaintiff has not technically rested, right, so they would have to make their motions? THE COURT: MR. WARD: Right. Okay. (Bench conference concluded.) You may ask. Thank you, Your Honor. DIRECT EXAMINATION Not till the video's done.
Richie - Direct 164 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 case. We've heard some about the web site and some about you.
And I know it's getting near the end of the day, and I'd like to kind of be as quick as I can, but I want to fill in some blanks that the jury hasn't heard about yet. There was -- initially, there was some discussion about whether you lived in Arizona or California. clarify? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Can you sort of
You're currently living in California?
I currently live in Orange County, California. Okay. Yes. Okay. And you previously lived in Arizona? I used to live in Scottsdale, Arizona. Do you remember when you moved to California?
I would say about a little over two years. Okay. Are you married?
Yes, I'm currently married. How long have you been married? Almost -- coming up almost three years. And who is your wife? Shayne Lamas. And do you have any children? I have one child, one daughter. Okay. I'm not sure if I heard anything about this
before, but is Shayne well known for anything? A. Yes. My wife is an actress. She's the daughter of
Lorenzo Lamas. Q. Okay.
Her grandfather is Fernando Lamas.
And has Shayne been on any television programs in
Richie - Direct 165 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 her lifetime? A. Yeah. She was a regular on a TV show called "General She also won "The Bachelor," and she had her own And we were just on
TV show on E called "Leave it to Lamas." a VH1 show called "Couples Therapy." Q. You've answered my next question.
In addition to running
the web site, you do some other things, don't you? A. Q. Yes. One such thing being you were just on a reality When was that?
television program. A. Q.
I think it aired in November of last year. Okay. Do you remember how many -- was it one episode or
was it more than one? A. Q. No, it was ten episodes. Okay. And you've done a lot of national media interviews
regarding thedirty.com, haven't you? A. Q. Correct. Okay. Do you remember, just kind of off the top of your
head, how many? A. Q. I would have to say over a hundred. Okay. And I think Mr. Deters mentioned "Nancy Grace."
Did he mention "Nancy Grace" with one of them? A. Q. A. He didn't; but, yes, I've been on "Nancy Grace." Okay. "Anderson Cooper"?
Richie - Direct 166 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. More than once? Twice. Okay. Twice. Okay. "20/20"? "Dr. Phil"?
One time. Okay. And some of those interviews had to do with this
case and some didn't, right? A. Q. Correct. Okay. Regarding the national media interviews that had
to do with this case, did you solicit the media to come talk to you about the case? A. No. Every media outlet that contacted me said, you know, We're interviewing Sarah Jones; we
we want to get your side. want to get your take. Q.
So you didn't ask the media to promote this case.
just did it on their own? A. Q. Yes. Okay. Nik, some people think that when you're on
television a lot, if you're on a reality show or whatever, that you must get paid a fortune for all these TV appearances. Has that been the case for you? A. No. I've never got paid on any of the "Dr. Phils" or any
of those things. Q. Okay. So "Dr. Phil" didn't pay you anything?
Richie - Direct 167 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. No. "Anderson Cooper" didn't pay you anything? No. "20/20" didn't pay you anything? No. Okay. And how many local television or newspaper
interviews have you given, approximately? A. Q. I would say over 500, between radio and print. Okay. And again, separate and apart from thedirty.com,
you also do -- I think we initially called them public speaking appearances, but they're not really speaking appearances. A. Q. A. Yes. Can you explain what sort of appearances you do? Nightclubs from all over the country pay me to show up
for a couple hours to -- as like a celebrity appearance, to show up at their venue to draw crowds. Q. Okay. And you've been doing that kind of thing, that
sort of public appearance and public television appearances and so forth, for a number of years, right? A. Q. A. Yes. Do you remember kind of when that first happened for you? I want to say the first -- the first one was Dallas about
four years ago. Q. Okay.
Richie - Direct 168 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Three years ago, four years ago. I don't know if you can see on your monitor. I've got
something displayed there.
Do you remember back when you
started, initially you told Mr. Deters when you started thedirty.com, it was called Dirty Scottsdale, right? A. Q. A. Q. Correct. And for those who don't know, Scottsdale's where? It's in Arizona. All right. And so when you were in Arizona and you were
running Dirty Scottsdale, at some point, did that site grab a lot of attention? A. Yeah, it got a lot of media attention and it was the buzz
of the town. Q. Okay. And as part of that -- are you familiar with
AZCentral.com? A. Q. A. Q. "Arizona Republic," yes. It's the "Arizona Republic" newspaper's web site, right? Yes. And did they name you one of the ten most fascinating --
fascinating Arizonians in 2008? A. Yes. They named me in print and they named me, I
believe, on their TV channels. Q. Okay. I want to briefly talk about DirtyScottsdale.com
because I think there's some confusion over which site is relating to what.
Richie - Direct 169 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Okay. Tell us, when you first started Dirty Scottsdale, could
users upload anything to the web site? A. Q. A. No. Okay. Describe briefly what that web site was about.
Dirty Scottsdale was just kind of mocking the -- I call
it 30K millionaires, the kids that think they're rich and they want to show off at the nightclubs. fun of the town. within Arizona. Q. Okay. And so again, when you first started Dirty Kind of, you know, made
Also, it covered a lot of celebrity stuff
Scottsdale, none of the content on that site was user generated, was it? A. Q. No. Okay. And when you were first running Dirty Scottsdale,
is that when you first began using the term "reality blogger"? A. Q. Yes. Okay. And what's a blog, because some people don't use Can you generally
the Internet, don't know what a blog is. explain what that is? A.
Blog's kind of like -- I would say kind of like a diary
of, you know, someone's personal web site. Q. A. Q. And that's sort of what Dirty Scottsdale was, right? It was; but it evolved into, you know, a gossip site. And do you remember -- and the gossip site became
Richie - Direct 170 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 thedirty.com? A. Q. Yeah. Do you remember when that changed generally, kind of
month and year when that happened? A. I would say 2009, you know. I'm not sure of the exact
date it was. Q. Okay. Now, just before we leave Dirty Scottsdale, at It became
some point, that site became not a general blog.
where users could submit their own posts; is that right? A. It became a third-party platform, like a YouTube or, you
know, Facebook. Q. Okay. And so at some point -- initially, you said that
when you first started the web site, 100 percent of the content was from you -A. Q. Yes. -- and zero percent was from users. And then over time,
eventually more and more content started coming from users? A. I would say over -- yeah, it formatted into 99 percent of
the content, which is all user based. Q. A. I'm sorry. You said 99 percent today?
Yeah, if -- unless I put some article up that's in the
media that's just there. Q. Okay. You heard Mr. Deters talk, I think more than once,
about how content on thedirty.com -- I think he read a dictionary definition and called -- you know, the word "dirty"
Richie - Direct 171 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 means filthy or soiling. on thedirty.com. But let's talk about actual content
Is every post on the web site -- first of
all, you've looked at presumably every post on the site, right? A. Yes. MR. DETERS: THE COURT: MR. GINGRAS: BY MR. GINGRAS: Q. A. Generally, what kind of posts are there? It's everything across the board from, I would say, You know, it Objection; leading. That's all right. Okay.
celebrity -- we get a lot of athlete stuff. could be the person next door. It's totally open. want. Q. A. Q. A. Q.
It could be charity stuff.
You can pretty much submit whatever you
Do you ask users to submit anything specific? No. Do you ask users to submit about any specific person? No. Did you ever ask anyone to submit anything regarding
Sarah Jones? A. Q. No. Okay. If somebody wants to post something on
thedirty.com, if I wanted to do that, how would I do that? A. There's a button on the top right-hand corner called
Richie - Direct 172 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 "submit posts," and you can upload your image and, you know, your information to the image and leave your contact info. It's pretty much just like YouTube. Q. Okay. Nik, if you could look at the monitor for just a
second, do you see what's there? A. Q. A. Q. Yes. Is that the Submit Posts page that you just described? Yes. Okay. And looking at this page, it says, "Send us your Tell us your side of the
news tips, pictures or videos. story."
And then scrolling down, what information do you
require or does the form require? A. It usually requires where the post comes from, like your
city or your college, also the category, sometimes, you know, if it's athlete related. We have different subcategories.
And, you know, obviously you put the post title, your name. Q. Okay. Yeah, so there's a box that says -- and I don't Oh, maybe it's not 100 percent
know if the jury can read it. there. A.
Yeah, but there's also a check box, which is our terms of
service. Q. I'll get to that in one second. It's more or less
So the Submit Posts page, there's basically a blank
box that says "Your Post Title," right? A. Correct.
Richie - Direct 173 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Okay. And can a user -- what's a user allowed to enter
in there? A. Q. A. Q. Anything that they want. Okay. Yeah. E-mail address optional. The user can categorize what And then it says your name, phone number optional?
city or college. Hot Tips"? A. Q. A. Yes. What's that?
And then do you see a box that says "Your
That's where the user puts in the information.
you see on the site where it says The Dirty Army, that's the information that gets published. Q. Okay. So just to clarify -- for instance, I'm calling There's several different posts about Ms. Jones,
this a post. correct? A. Q. Yeah. Okay.
And this is what we call a post.
And the actual
text that shows up on the web site, beginning with The Dirty Army -- first of all, the user doesn't write "The Dirty Army," do they? A. No, it automatically -- it automatically puts that when
it gets published. Q. Okay. So when I -- if I were to log in and create a hot
tip, the actual text that goes into that hot tip box, where
Richie - Direct 174 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 does that show up on this page? A. Q. That's The Dirty Army part. So after where it says Dirty Army in bold colon, and then
in this example, it talks about, "Nik, here we have Sarah J"? A. Q. A. Q. That's the hot tip. That's the box where it says "Hot Tip"? Correct. And then below that, below the user-submitted text,
that's a part in bold? A. Q. A. Q. That's my writing. And that's always in bold like that? Yes. Okay. If it says dash Nik, it's from me. Can we go back? So looking back at the
Submit-the-Post page, okay, after the user submits their hot tip -- and again, do you ever ask people to submit -obviously, dirt gets submitted, but do you ever ask for anything about any particular topic? A. No. And I get stuff that's R rated all the time that We just delete it.
doesn't make the site. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A.
Do you allow nude images on your site? No. Do you allow pornography? No. How about profanity? I try to monitor it as best I can. You know, if someone
Richie - Direct 175 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 says the word "fuck," we put an asterisk in the U. Q. Okay. In terms of what other material a user can submit,
they can submit images using these Choose File buttons; is that right? A. Q. Yes. Okay. And then do the users have to agree to your terms
of service before they can submit something? A. Yes. They have to read the terms of service, click the
box, before it can get to me. Q. Okay. And are you familiar with the terms of service of
the web site? A. Q. Yes. Okay. As part of your operation of the web site, do you
want people to submit false information? A. Q. A. Q. No, not at all. Is that good for business? No. In fact, it costs a lot of money to defend lawsuits when
false information gets on the site, right? A. Q. Very much so. Okay. So looking at -- one last question about the Was the form
Submit-the-Post form that we just looked at. like that during all of 2009? A. Q. Yes.
And do you know, from looking either -- from looking at
Richie - Direct 176 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Yes. THE COURT: Okay. Overruled. whatever, do you know how the posts about Ms. Jones got on the web site? Because people could also e-mail you directly and
say, here's some information; make it into a post, right? A. Q. A. Q. Yes. And is that what happened with these particular ones? No. This is just a submission. So whoever submitted this had to agree to
your terms of service? A. Q. Correct. And looking at the terms of service -- is this the same
general terms of service that's been on the site for a long time? A. Q. Yes. And do you specifically tell people that you don't want
defamatory information -MR. DETERS: Objection; leading.
Do your terms of service also -- what do they say
about -- is Dirty World accepting responsibility for everything on the web site? Do you guarantee that everything
is fact-checked, everything's accurate? A. Q. A. No. Does it say that in the terms of service? I believe so. It says that in the disclaimer, too, that
Richie - Direct 177 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 we have on the site. Q. Okay. Look at paragraph 3. Do you see paragraph 3? I'm
trying to put it to the middle there. A. Q. Yes. Beginning with "By submitting photos." It says here,
"Comments or any other material which is false, defamatory, or otherwise unlawful is not allowed." in place in all of 2009? A. Q. Yes. And that's been the case since the beginning of the web Was that term of service
site, has it? A. Q. Yes. How do you know when something's unlawful? If I wanted
to go and log into your web site and post something, how do you know whether what I'm posting is unlawful? A. Q. A. Q. No. Do you fact-check everything that appears on the site? No. It's impossible. Do you?
How many posts -- and again, a post meaning like a
stand-alone thing like that. A. Q. A. Q. Yeah. How many posts like this are on the web site as of today? I would say around 120,000. Okay. And then in addition to the posts, there can be
comments about posts submitted by users also?
Richie - Direct 178 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Correct. Do you know, as we sit here today, how many comments
about posts there are, approximately? A. Q. A. Q. I would say over 2 million. Okay. How many new posts do you get every month?
That I actually published or? Yeah, the ones -- overall submissions, whether published
or not. A. Q. A. Q. I would say around 25 to 30 thousand. Okay. And how many of those make the web site?
If I'm doing -- on a good month, I would say 2,500. Mr. Deters talked before about the fact that you want
traffic to come to the web site, right? A. Q. A. Q. Yes. Like any web site? Yes. The more traffic hits your web site, the more value you
can offer to advertisers, right? A. Yeah, like -- like TMZ. That's like, yeah, the same
thing. Q. Has it been your experience running the web site that the
more content you have, the more traffic you get? A. Q. I don't really look at it like that. Okay. But I'm wondering why don't you allow everything You said that thousands of things are submitted
Richie - Direct 179 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 and you block apparently, presumably, a large number of those submissions. A. Tell us why. You know, I want If I
It's just part of my editing process.
to keep the site pretty neutral and across the board.
let everything go on the site, it gives the site no meaning. Like it just would be a whole bunch of garbage, a lot of negative stuff. Q. Nik, did you ever -- do you recall ever receiving a post
about Sarah Jones that you did not publish? A. Q. in? A. It was -- I'm not sure on the date, but I know it's Yes. Do you remember generally what time frame that post came
before the last hearing when I came out to Kentucky. Q. If I told you the last hearing was December of 2011,
would that kind of jog your memory? A. Q. Yeah. It was right at the beginning of December.
Do you remember what the nature of the post was, what the It was about Ms. Jones?
subject matter was? A. Q. A. Yes.
And what did the poster say about Ms. Jones? The poster said that Ms. Jones was sleeping with one of
her students; and that was, you know, pretty much of the gist of the post. Q. Okay. I don't want to get into the graphics.
And do you remember, when that post came in,
Richie - Direct 180 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Ms. Jones had not yet been publicly accused in any way of the Dixie Heights scandal, as we referred to it eventually? A. No. It was -- she wasn't -- I don't know if she was It wasn't out yet, no.
being investigated. Q.
So that post that came in about that allegation against
Ms. Jones was before all that was known? A. Q. A. Q. A. Yes. And you didn't publish it? No. Why not? Honest answer, I thought it was Sarah and her counsel
trying to set me up on, you know, something. Q. Okay. And to this day, you never -- when a post comes in
and you don't approve it, where does it go? A. Q. A. Q. It goes to the trash. Okay. A folder of posts that we don't publish. So to this day, though, you've never activated or
published that thing that came in regarding Sarah and the Cody York situation? A. No, not that post, but I have put up other posts from
other media outlets after she was charged, yeah. Q. Well, since this case has been filed in, I think it was
December of 2009 it was first filed, there's been a huge amount of media coverage of the case, hasn't there?
Richie - Direct 181 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Correct. And what kind of web sites have you seen news coverage
about this case? A. Every single one. Like you name it. Huffington Post,
"Anderson Cooper." Q. So when Sarah said before that you had reposted her over
and over again -- I think the number was like 40 times -- was that post like the sort of rumor gossip that we saw here or -A. No. It was just duplicating articles that were already
published on line. Q. Okay. Nik, a lot has been made about the fact that Sarah
wrote to you and asked you, begged you, pleaded with you, to take these posts down and told you that they were false; and at least for a period of time you kind of -- you didn't remove the posts, right? A. Q. No. Have you ever -- first of all, how many times do you
remove posts on a daily basis? A. On a good day, I'll remove like 40 posts. I remove stuff
every day. Q. A.
I would say 10 posts to 15 on average.
Why do you do that? Just because if someone proves to me that, you know, it You know, if I look Like I -- you
is not factual, then I'll remove stuff.
at the post -- you know, I try to play fair.
know, what -- what blows my mind most is that, you know, I try
Richie - Direct 182 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 my best to play both sides. And I'm not a judge by any means,
but I can't fact-check, so I do remove stuff when I feel like it doesn't need to be on the site. Q. Okay. Nik, have you ever removed anything based on
someone telling you, here's a post about me and it's false, and you then removed it and later found out that it was actually true? A. Q. Yes, all the time. Okay. In fact, have you ever removed a post in that kind
of a situation, based on a request, before a lawsuit was filed, and then gotten sued anyway? A. Q. A. Q. A. Yes. Do you generally -- you know who Kristen Creighton is? Yes. Who is Kristen Creighton? Kristen Creighton is a girl from Houston who was accused I removed the posts
of having STDs, and they wanted money. anyway. say. it.
They wanted money because I said that -- or I didn't I removed
The submitter who posted said she had STDs.
Later they sued us, and then she actually got an STD test
and she was found positive that she had herpes. Q. A. Q. Okay. And she sued me because -But before the lawsuit was filed and before the post was
removed, did Ms. Creighton or her attorney represent to you
Richie - Direct 183 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that the actual allegations were completely untrue? A. Q. A. Q. Yes. And did you believe that? No. Okay. I didn't know what to believe. But whether you believed it or not, you did take
the post down -A. Q. Yes. -- based on that threat. Okay. And that didn't stop
them from suing you, did it? A. Q. A. Q. A. No. Okay. No. Okay. Is that the only instance of that happening? It happens a lot. Who is Carrie Prejean? She was running for
Carrie Prejean was Miss California.
Miss America. Q. A. And did somebody submit her to the web site? Yeah, she got submitted to the web site. I guess the
pageant rules are pretty strict, and she got submitted, a topless photo of herself in her underwear. Q. Okay. And at the time that post regarding Ms. Prejean
came up, she was involved in something of a scandal based on her answer to a question in the Miss U.S.A. pageant. generally remember that? A. Q. Yeah. Okay. It was all over the media. And as part of that scandal, do you remember her Do you
Richie - Direct 184 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 giving interviews where she said that she'd never actually taken topless photos? A. Q. A. Q. Yeah. And was that true? No. But she told you that there weren't any -- I'm sorry. At
some point, she contacted you and asked you to remove the one photo that was there, right? A. Q. A. Q. Yes. And did you remove it? No. And did she then tell the media that she actually -- that
was the only photo that had ever been taken like that? A. Q. A. Yes, that's what she told the media. And that was a lie, wasn't it? Yes. Their lawyers reached out and told us that was the
only photo and we should remove it. Q. A. Okay. Do you know what happened to Ms. Prejean?
She was -- they found out she was lying the whole time
and she got her crown taken away. Q. A. She was kicked off the Miss U.S.A.? Yes, because we got more pictures of her topless and
posted them, and she was caught with a lie. Q. Nik, at some point during this case, you and Sarah Jones
went on the "Anderson Cooper" show together to talk about this
Richie - Direct 185 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 case, right? A. Yes. The first time we've actually talked. I guess you
can call it talking. Q. And when that interview happened, you actually weren't You were via satellite?
live in the studio. A.
No, I was having my child at the time so I couldn't make
it to New York. Q. Okay. But you went on the web site -- or you went on the
"Anderson Cooper" show and talked about the web site. Ms. Jones talked about her side of the story and you talked about yours, correct? A. Q. Correct. Okay. After that show aired, Anderson Cooper actually
had his own blog as well, or a place where people can place comments about the show, right? A. Q. AndersonCooper.com. Yes. After that show aired, did people say -- did people
post comments about the program? A. Q. A. Q. Yes. Did they post things about you? Yes. Nik, I put on the display a comment that was posted on
AndersonCooper.com after you and Ms. Jones appeared there. And it looks like somebody named Ed posted that you're a pedophile with a huge collection of kiddy porn, you rape young
Richie - Direct 186 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 boys under ten years old and have HIV, you were caught selling drugs to teenagers and elementary school kids. true? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. No. Did you ask Anderson to remove that? No. What effect did that comment have on your life? Zero. Did you think about suing Anderson Cooper because of Is any of that
that? A. Q. A. Q. No. Why not? People are entitled to their own opinions. Mr. Deters has implied, I think, that you use You've heard
thedirty.com to ruin people's lives for profit. him say that? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Yes. Okay. No.
Does thedirty.com make a lot of money for you?
Are you familiar with the thedirty.com's finances? Somewhat. Okay. The posts that Ms. Jones is suing over are from Maybe just 2009. Do you recall generally how
2009 and 2010.
much money Dirty World made in 2009? A. I believe we didn't make any money in 2009. I think we
Richie - Direct 187 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 lost about -- if I had to guess for the year, we were probably in the red 200K. Q. And the year before that, 2008, do you remember how much
money Dirty World made? A. I would say we were in the red maybe 300, 400K. I don't
know the exact number. Q. So you lost $300,000 in 2008. And you lost how much in
2009? A. Q. Around 200, probably a little bit more. Okay. In order to keep the web site going, did you have
to -- could you keep the web site going with those sort of numbers? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. No. At some point, did you wind up having to borrow money? Yes. Okay. How much did you borrow?
I believe it was around 700,000. Okay. Yes. Okay. Nik, I think we talked about -- again, I don't We talked about the posts And is that money still owed today?
want to beat a dead horse. regarding Ms. Jones.
The actual text -- I'll shorten it down.
The statement that she had STDs, did you write that? A. Q. No. Do you know who did?
Richie - Direct 188 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. No. Did you ask anybody to do that? No. Same question with regard to her sleeping with the entire Did you say that yourself?
Bengals team. A. Q. A. Q. No.
Did you ask anyone else to say that? No, I did not. Okay. Did you even know who Sarah Jones was before this
case? A. Q. No, not at all. And you didn't know her husband, her then boyfriend and
then became husband, Nate Wilburn? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. No. You did know Shayne Graham, though? Yeah, technically. Okay. I saw him kick a couple times.
But you knew him as a fan?
As a football player, yes. Okay. Is there any specific reason why you would have
wanted to hurt Ms. Jones? A. Q. No, not at all. Before these posts appeared on the web site, or the
database that you clicked publish, did you know if the facts in them were true? A. No.
Richie - Direct 189 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. Did you know if the facts were false? No. Well, actually, some of the facts in them are true,
right? A. Q. Yes. Okay. For example, Sarah was an NFL cheerleader. That
turned out to be true? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Yes. She's a high school teacher. Yes. She had a boyfriend who cheated on her. Yes. So the parts that weren't true were the STDs, the That was true? That was true?
sleeping with the Bengals players, and that Nate may or may not have bragged about having sex with her in the school? A. I couldn't even tell you if that's not true or true or
false. Q. At the time that these posts -- again, I understand
you've said it probably 20 times already, that you didn't know Sarah, you didn't know Nate. But when these posts went up on
the web site, did you have any reason to doubt their reliability? A. Q. No, not at all. Okay. And I think Mr. Deters asked you before whether Somebody
you had any reason to believe that they were true.
Richie - Direct 190 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 submitted those to the web site, right? A. Q. Yes. And somebody clicked your terms of service, agreed that
it wasn't false or defamatory, and submitted this to the web site, right? A. Q. Yes. And then based on those representations to you, you
allowed it to appear on the web site? A. Q. Correct. And at the time you did that, there was no other
information you had that could have told you that this wasn't true? A. Q. No. Okay. After the posts appeared on the web site,
Ms. Jones contacted you and then challenged the accuracy of the posts, right? A. Q. Correct. Okay. But again, at that point, you had her telling you
that it was false and you had the person who submitted it maybe saying that it was true. Did you have any way of
reconciling which party to believe? A. Q. No. So you just published it to allow the world to see it and
make their own decision? A. Correct.
Richie - Direct 191 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. I think earlier, Mrs. Jones or Mr. Deters made a comment Do you
about you making posts in other people's names. remember that? A. Q. A. Q. Yeah.
Do you have any idea what that's talking about? No, I don't. The posts regarding Ms. Jones are not signed by anyone, They're not signed by Eric Deters as the author or
Nate Wilburn or anyone else? A. Q. A. Q. No. They're just anonymous, unsigned? Correct. How many posts -- how many times are posts on the web
site like these, how many times are they ever signed by anyone? A. If someone's not being anonymous, I've seen it at times
they'll put their name in. Q. A. Q. Where you cite a source or something? Yeah. Okay. But when you make your own comments on the web
site, you always sign them "Nik," right? A. Q. A. Q. Correct. In bold? Yes. There's some dispute, Nik, over when you actually removed
Richie - Direct 192 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 these. I think Ms. Jones says that it was when she got a
default judgment against Dirty World Entertainment Recordings, which was August of 2010. them on the site that long? A. I couldn't tell you the exact date; but, no, in my mind, Do you think that you actually left
I felt they were only on the site for 60 days. Q. Okay. And Mr. Deters was very clear with you that you
had, I think you said, 18 million hits a month to your web site? A. Q. Yes. And the posts, three posts, were there for at least a few
months, right? A. Q. Yes. And so he was suggesting that perhaps millions and
millions of people had seen these particular posts? A. Q. A. Yeah. That's not true.
How do you know that's not true? Because when I put up a post, it's like a roll. You You
know, the first post goes to the top of the main page.
know, that post is probably on the main page for six hours, seven hours at least, and then it just goes back into archive. Q. Okay. Mr. Deters previously graced us with some of his I'll do the same.
When posts are submitted to The Dirty -- first of all, does thedirty.com have a main page?
Richie - Direct 193 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. It's just the home page. So if I go to thedirty.com, that's what you'd call the
main page? A. Q. A. Q. Correct. And then are there sub-pages underneath that? There's sub-cities like categories. Okay. So you could click on a category like Cincinnati,
for example? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Yeah. And that would take you to a different page? Yes. With different content? Yes. It's not necessarily -- material can be on both a
city-specific page and on the main page, right? A. I look at the main page as kind of like not an all-star
page, but just more relevant content from around the world, because this is not -Q. To use a different analogy, the main page is kind of like
the front page of a newspaper, right? MR. DETERS: THE COURT: Okay. Objection; leading again. That's all right. Let's move along.
Mr. Richie, first of all, do you know, these posts
regarding Ms. Jones, did they appear on the main page or some other subset of pages?
Richie - Direct 194 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. They appear on both. Can you tell by looking at the actual post where it
appeared? A. It says above on the top it was posted in Cincinnati,
Dirty Cheerleaders, and The Dirty. Q. A. Q. in? A. Q. A. Q. No, the user does. The user does that when they do the Submit Post form? Yes. Okay. And when a post appears even on the main page, how Okay. So it appeared in three different categories?
Correct. Did you select which categories this post would appear
long is it actually there? A. Q. It depends on the day, but I would say six hours. And why only six hours? And I can kind of direct your
attention -A. Q. A. As a new post comes in, it gets bumped down. So -So if you look at Sarah Jones' post, for instance, it was
probably on the main page; and in six hours, it maybe got like 30,000 views, 50,000 views at the most, you know, if it's a good traffic day. Q. Okay. And then after a post is initially submitted to
the web site, it kind of moves down?
Richie - Direct 195 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Yeah. It goes to what I call archive, like the next page
back. Q. Okay. And then over time, it just keeps moving back
further and further away from the main page? A. Q. Yes. So do you have any knowledge of how far back people Can you
usually scroll when they're reading your web site? track that with some kind of technical method? A.
We average, you know -- our traffic usually only goes --
we have a high bounce rate, so they go to the first page and they usually -- sometimes they'll go to the second page and then they're on to their next web site. Q. Okay. I know a little bit about Internet and stuff, but
I don't know what a high bounce rate is. A. Bounce rate is what you call when a person -- like a time If you have like a 90 percent bounce rate, that
means people come to your site really quickly and they bounce to another web site. Q. Okay. So regarding the posts with Ms. Jones, at some
point in time, they would have left the main page and gone further back? A. Q. Yes. And that would have reduced the amount of people -- does
that reduce the amount of people that see them? A. Yes.
Richie - Direct 196 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Okay. Does that sometimes play into your decision
whether or not to remove something that's older, it's old news? A. Q. (Nods head affirmatively.) Okay. Nik, in the posts about Ms. Jones, one of them,
you made a comment, "Why are all high school teachers freaks in the sack?" A. Q. A. Correct. What did you mean by that? I know this is kind of weird, but the media tends to -Do you remember that?
other web sites and the news tend to really love the teacher-student relations, sexual relationships. At that
time, mentally, to me, I looked at it like why are all teachers freaks in the sack in that regard. Q. Okay. And that was referring to stories like Mary Kay
Letourneau -A. That was referring to teachers. It wasn't Sarah Jones.
It was my opinion of, you know, why are all teachers freaks in the sack. Q. When you made that comment, did you mean to tell people
that you were adopting the text regarding her having STDs? A. Q. No, because the text was about Nate. Okay. MR. GINGRAS: THE COURT: One second, Your Honor. All right.
Richie - Recross 197 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. BY MR. DETERS: Q. Nik, first post was October 27th, 2009, and it was That's ten months, isn't it? MR. GINGRAS: THE COURT: No further questions, Your Honor. Anything further for this witness? RECROSS-EXAMINATION
removed August 26th, 2010. A.
Am I just supposed to believe it from the paper, this
piece of paper? Q. A. Yes. Do you deny it?
Well, I don't remember when I removed the post, to be
honest. Q. Well, Sarah Jones has testified that it was removed First post was October 27th, 2009.
August 26th, 2010. A. Q. A. Q.
I find that hard to believe, but -Did you save the binder that I gave you? No. It's on the desk. Look at Exhibit 34, Bates stamped -May I approach the witness? Yes.
MR. DETERS: THE COURT: -- 350. Thank you.
Now, you just went through defense counsel with how this It says, "With over 20 million
isn't a big deal to advertise.
viewers per month, thedirty.com is a great place for your company to bring in new business. With tons of pricing
Richie - Recross 198 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 options, we can cater to your target audience and stay within your budget. Need advertising in a specific area? Don't
forget to ask about our geo-location-based advertising packages." Now, 20,000 a month coming and going, and this was up ten months. And I think you said before that you think -- you
admit that probably 50,000 saw it nationwide and 300 saw it in Cincinnati. A. Q. Yes. Cincinnati's not a big market for us. Ten months. Twenty -- is that true? Is that
true, 20 million viewers a month, or is it not true? A. Q. It's around 18, 20, yeah. Isn't it true that your -- the overwhelming majority of
posts that come to you are people who are talking about their ex-wife, their ex-girlfriend, revenge, something dirty? A. Q. A. Q. I wouldn't say dirty, but we get a lot of cheaters. Ninety percent or more, isn't it? No, I wouldn't say that. Well, if I were to put up on this laptop that I have here
your web site, and I started scrolling through it, how long would it take for us to find a charity event? A. Q. I don't know. What if I were to tell you at lunchtime I looked at that
and I can't find one? MR. GINGRAS: Objection, Your Honor.
Richie - Recross 199 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 THE COURT: MR. GINGRAS: It's cross-examination. Is Mr. Deters going to testify? I'm
happy to cross-examine him if he is. THE COURT: Question is, what if I were to tell you The gist being how common --
that, what would you say? A.
I would say that you're lying because I know -THE COURT: Let's move along, fellas.
BY MR. DETERS: A. I would say that you're lying because I put up something Might be on the second page.
before we got to court today. Q. A. The second page?
I remember seeing pictures of me helping kids in Haiti
when I went out there. Q. A. Q. You're broke, right? I guess you could say that. Well, I saw where you're going to London, England to see You're seeing a Manchester
a soccer match at Manchester. soccer match. A. Q. A. Yep.
You're going to Haiti. What does that mean?
How do you pay for all this travel? Well, the soccer match, my parents actually, for my
birthday in February, they're paying for the plane ticket. Q. A. Q. Got a reality show? I was on a reality show. Okay. Isn't it true that Monday is your biggest day?
Richie - Recross 200 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. GINGRAS: Monday is the important date in your business? A. Q. A. Q. No, Wednesday. Wednesday. And why is that?
Just the middle of the week. Now, your counsel asked you what I mentioned about ruin Isn't it true that you use dirt that comes
lives for profit.
to you, and that you will agree to take it down or put it up if people pay you money? A. Q. A. Q. No. You deny that? Totally deny it. Have you ever hired a lawyer with a contingency fee
agreement to do that to a professional baseball player? MR. GINGRAS: THE COURT: Your Honor, can we approach? Okay. (Bench conference.) I think I said before, and I'll just This is a
say it again, this is completely irrelevant.
different bad act he's attempting to prove that is two years after these posts, has nothing to do with it. collateral issue. this case. MR. DETERS: Credibility is always an issue. He lied It's a
It's inflammatory, has nothing to do with
and just said he never does it, Your Honor, and I got black-and-white proof that he has.
Richie - Recross 201 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 THE COURT: MR. DETERS: Just the one instance or other instances? Well, other instances, but my rebuttal
witness is coming tomorrow morning, and she ought to be allowed to testify, because he just lied. THE COURT: I think it's admissible not so much on
credibility but on malice. MR. DETERS: MR. GINGRAS: Malice, right. That's right.
Your Honor, she doesn't have an
extortion claim in this case. MR. DETERS: MR. GINGRAS: includes a claim -MR. DETERS: Your Honor, I've got a fee contract Oh, yes, she does. I'm sorry, I've read no pleading that
where Nik Richie and her signed the same fee agreement with the lawyer to get confidentiality from Barry Larkin for $500,000. MR. GINGRAS: Your Honor, that's a 403(b) different
bad act he's trying to use solely to -MR. DETERS: MR. GINGRAS: It is. It's malice.
First of all, malice is not an
exception to 403(b); and secondly, malice toward a third party, Judge. A third party. He's trying to show malice
toward a third party to imply there might be malice toward his client. to have. Again, this is a different appeal issue we're going
Richie - Recross 202 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MR. DETERS: Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Did you deny that? Yes. You know a Heidi Heiser? Yeah. It's your client. appeal. MR. GINGRAS: THE COURT: I'm just making my record, Your Honor. This is like I see it. It will be like site. MR. DETERS: I'm going to ask him the question, too, THE COURT: He's trying to show what kind of web
were you waiting for the Joneses to pay you some money. THE COURT: MR. GINGRAS: I think it's admissible. Your Honor, I think it jeopardizes the
appeal we're going to have. MR. DETERS: You keep threatening the Judge with that
they see it on the appeal. (Bench conference concluded.)
Do you know a Jorge? No. Hold on a second. I might mispronounce it. Do you know
a law firm of Jorgensen & Salberg? A. Q. Yeah, they do -- they're actually my wife's law firm. All right. Isn't it true that that law firm, Jorgensen &
Salberg, entered into a fee agreement with both you and Heidi
Richie - Recross 203 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Q. Q. A. Heiser to negotiate a confidentiality agreement concerning Barry Larkin? MR. GINGRAS: Objection; foundation, Your Honor.
If it is, I've never seen it. THE COURT: Excuse me. He's laying the foundation.
He's asking him if it's true or not. A. Q. A. If it is, I haven't seen it. You've not seen it? No. MR. DETERS: May I approach the witness, Your Honor? Look at Exhibit 42,
Or actually, you can look at that.
please. THE COURT: the podium. MR. DETERS: THE COURT: Okay. I want to see what the question is. Just hand him the document and return to
This is Plaintiff's Exhibit 42. THE COURT: Okay. The question is, did you enter
into this agreement? THE WITNESS: No.
Did you enter into a fee agreement with this law firm
with Heidi Heiser? A. Q. A. No. Were you planning on it? No.
Richie - Recross 204 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Can you explain why your lawyer has your name and her
name on a contingency fee agreement? A. it. Q. A. Q. First time you've ever seen it? Yep. Isn't it true that you went to Heidi Heiser's house to This is the first I've ever -- first time I've ever seen
get her cell phone? A. Q. No. You deny that? THE COURT: line of questioning. Okay. I think we're going afield on this
On a question like this, you've got to
take the witness' answer. MR. DETERS: THE COURT: to something else. Q. A. So you deny it? Heidi Heiser is a person who reached out to us. She had All right. So he denies any such agreement. Go on
a 20-year affair with Barry Larkin.
Her -- Barry Larkin's
attorney, who was Frank Keyes, I believe, was a friend of yours. And what happened with Heidi Heiser is she wanted to We posted it on the web site. She was very upset because
get her story out.
She had a 20-year affair.
Barry Larkin got inducted into the Hall of Fame and she had been sleeping with Barry Larkin; and she had images and
Richie - Recross 205 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. pictures of the affair, and she submitted it. And I sourced
it, put the story up, and I even put on the post that -because Frank Keyes, who was their attorney, wanted to pay to get the digital rights to the images or whatever it was, and I said no. Q. My final question to you on this matter is: Did you
enter into an agreement with an attorney and Heidi Heiser to extort money from Barry Larkin to take it down? MR. GINGRAS: irrelevant. A. Has nothing to do with Sarah Jones, but my answer's no. THE COURT: My answer is no. So you deny it. Okay. He's already answered it, hasn't he? Objection, Your Honor; argumentative,
This is the first I've ever seen it. Moving on. This thing doesn't even have my signature. What is this?
Now, you've testified that those posts that were up there
on Sarah, those three main ones that we allege, that you say you don't know if they're false or not, right? A. Q. Correct. Did you hear your lawyer, in his question, say the only
thing that was false was the STDs, the sex with the spouse at the school, and sex with every Bengal, and then you corrected him and said you don't know? Do you remember that exchange?
Richie - Recross 206 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Can you repeat it? Well, I'll just do it. So you're saying that you don't
know whether or not those are false, right? A. I don't know if they're true and I don't know if they're I don't fact-check.
false. Q. A. Q.
You do acknowledge they're about Sarah? Sarah's within the posts. And you do acknowledge they were published, to use your
word, 50,000? A. Q. They were published on The Dirty. Okay. Now, your lawyer went through with you the terms Remember that, your agreement that you have on
your web site, it's called the Terms of Service? A. Q. Yeah. And it's my understanding, Mr. Richie, that someone
submits it to the web site, they have to click on and agree to the terms, right? A. Q. A. Q. Yes. And then they submit something anonymously? Well, no. They can source themselves.
Well, what good does it do, sir, to agree to terms of
service if they're anonymous? A. Q. I don't understand. You don't understand? THE COURT: He said something I didn't understand.
Richie - Recross 207 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 What do you mean, they can source themselves? Q. In other words, they can't identify -THE COURT: MR. DETERS: THE COURT: Hold on. I'm sorry. He said -- you say, then they submit
something anonymously, and he said, no, they can source themselves. Q. A. Q. A. Q. What does that mean?
What does that mean? It means they can put their real name if they'd like. But if they don't, they're anonymous? Yeah, they can submit anonymously. So isn't it true that your lawyer established that people
could agree to the terms of service and then submit some libel anonymously? A. The terms of service, what we request is that they submit
truthfully, but it's not my job to fact-check that. Q. Well, if they lied, you're not going to know who they are
because they're anonymous. A. Q. A. Q. Well, Sarah lies all the time. Okay. Yeah. Isn't it true you don't know who submitted these posts Got to ask you this. We all know who she is.
because they were anonymous? A. Q. Yes. All right. Now, you know that. So since you're the
Richie - Recross 208 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. editor and you know people are submitting things anonymously, and you know that they're punching terms of service that you can't track them, isn't it true then, you know that there's a likelihood of what you put up and let stay up is false? MR. GINGRAS: speculation. THE COURT: I'll overrule it. He can answer. Objection, Your Honor. Calls for
It could be true, could be false. All right. But you don't police it because you can't
track them down, right? A. No. Well, I have IP addresses if I really wanted to
track them down, but that's not what we do. Q. Well, did you really -- wait. We asked for discovery for
who posted it. who posted it? A.
Did you get the address so we could find out
You asked me if I could.
I said yes.
He said, okay.
We'll reach out and do that. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Are you sure about that? Check the deposition.
You never did.
Did you check out who it was? No. You never asked me to.
I'll check the deposition. Do you know a Jorge -- and I'm sorry, I don't know
Spanish so I'm going to spell it. A. Yeah. It's pronounced George.
J-o-r-g-e, Jorge A. Lopez?
Richie - Recross 209 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. Okay. Jorge Lopez. How do you know him?
He's dealt with legal matters for my wife, Shayne. And he's the lawyer at that law firm we spoke about
before, correct? A. Q. Correct. Now, Plaintiff's Exhibit 31, if you could turn to that.
Isn't it true that this is a letter that you sent to Sarah after the "Anderson Cooper" show? A. Q. Do you know what page it is? Exhibit 31. Just look at the blue cover sheets. You'll
find it. A. Yeah, I sent this e-mail. Yeah, I remember this was the
day my daughter was born. Q. Now, isn't it true that you testified at your deposition
the things that you block and you don't put up are usually really, really nasty things like "Jim Johnson raped that girl," things that are way over the line? A. I believe I told you I was like a lifeguard. If there
wasn't a lifeguard, then, you know, you can throw anything into the pool. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Okay. Are we going to talk about the e-mail? No. Okay. Now, you said you didn't understand -- when I asked this That's all I wanted to ask you about it.
Richie - Recross 210 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Honor. before, you said to your counsel, when posting in another name, you didn't understand so I'm going to explain it again. What I put up before was, I was saying Judge Smith is a pedophile, and my name is signed to it. And what I asked you
is, do you ever write something -- and you would be writing "Judge Smith is a pedophile" -- and then putting somebody's name to it which didn't write it? And what you testified to, I understand, during your cross-examination is you would never do that without their permission, correct? A. Q. Correct. All right. You are aware that the comment, "Why are all
high school teachers freaks in the sack?" that we're not making any claim to that? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. You do know that, don't you? Sarah admitted that she was.
Yeah, from what I heard. What is Slangville? It's a web site.
Is there a connection to thedirty.com to Slangville? No. Okay. MR. DETERS: That is all the questions I have,
Thank you very much. Any further questions? About three or four follow-ups, Your
THE COURT: MR. GINGRAS:
Richie - Redirect 211 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MR. GINGRAS: Q. Nik, did you ever ask Sarah Jones for money to remove her THE COURT: Okay. That's fine. Go ahead.
posts? A. Q. A. Q. Never. And you, in fact, did remove them, right? Yes. Okay. I just heard Mr. Deters talk to you about the fact You
that comments are submitted anonymously to the web site. remember talking about that? A. Q. Yes.
When a comment is submitted anonymously, you, in fact,
today, have a way of tracking who submitted that comment, don't you? A. Q. A. Yes. Explain what that process is. I see IP addresses on the back end. The servers log IP
addresses. Q. Okay. So to use our -- to go back to our example, if I
wanted to log in to thedirty.com and use the Submit Post form to submit a comment about Judge Smith or whoever Mr. Deters was saying, would -- your system, your computer system, would capture my IP address? A. Correct.
Richie - Redirect 212 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. And what is an IP address? IP address is like a number that is assigned to a
computer or I guess you could say your Internet browser so you could actually find the location of where the submission came from. Q. Okay. So if there's a post on your web site and I feel I
have been defamed by it, I could submit a subpoena to you to ask you to reveal the IP address and use that to track who defamed me? A. Q. Correct. Okay. Is there some reason why the IP addresses of the
posts about Ms. Jones weren't tracked or weren't available? A. Well, back then, we weren't logging IP addresses. We
were transferring servers for some reason. Q. Okay.
It wasn't visible.
So back in 2009, due to some technical difference
in your computer system, IP addresses were harder for you to locate or before maybe unavailable? A. Q. A. Q. Correct. Are they available now? Yes. Does that include retroactively? Can you go back under
your new system and find IP addresses that you thought weren't available? A. Q. I don't know. I don't think so.
Do you have a technical person who handles that sort of
Richie - Redirect 213 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 thing? A. Q. Yes. Okay. But as of today, as of 2013 and 2012 and 2011, are
all IP addresses logged for both posts and comments about posts? A. Q. Yes. So if somebody wanted to accuse you, for example, of
creating a post, you would have an IP address that actually identified the original source from which that content was posted? A. Q. Correct. And does that give you some comfort that when the user
submits something to your web site, agrees to your terms of service, agrees not to defame anyone, agrees not to lie, that if they break those rules, there might be a way to hold them accountable by tracing their IP address? A. Correct. It's third party. You know, it's not me saying
It gives it more validity. And when courts issue subpoenas and you receive
them, do you comply with them? A. Q. Yes. Okay. MR. GINGRAS: THE COURT: No further questions, Your Honor. Stick to the scope.
Richie - Further Cross 214 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MR. DETERS: Q. With respect to the IP addresses, you are aware that lots FURTHER CROSS-EXAMINATION
of people use fake IP addresses? A. Q. I'm not -- I'm not aware of that. All right. First question he asked you, Sarah Jones,
offering money, her and her family offering money to take it down. Do you remember that question, first question that he
just asked? A. Q. Yes. I thought of something. They asked for you to take it
down, according to you, 13 times, according to her, over 25 times. down? A. Q. A. No. That's ridiculous. Were you waiting for them to offer money to take it
It's ridiculous? Yeah. MR. DETERS: THE COURT: MR. DETERS: THE COURT: THE WITNESS: Thank you. Is that all for this witness? Yes, Your Honor. You can step down, sir. Thank you.
(The witness was excused.) THE COURT: MR. DETERS: Plaintiff have anything else? Your Honor, other than the television
215 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 commercial and the rebuttal witness tomorrow morning, which will be short, that's it. THE COURT: MR. DETERS: THE COURT: MR. DETERS: THE COURT: will be short? MR. DETERS: THE COURT: further evidence? MR. GINGRAS: THE COURT: No, Your Honor. Okay. Well, we should be able to get it Unfortunately, I do not know. Does the defense anticipate having any Television commercial or "Dr. Phil"? "Dr. Phil." Okay. Misspoke. Long day. I'm sorry.
And you have another witness that you say
to the jury tomorrow, then, before the snow hits, although now they say it's not going to be as bad as they did this morning. All right. So I'll excuse you overnight. Counsel
can come into chambers afterwards and we'll try to deal with the instructions. As far as your part is concerned, I'll excuse you overnight, ask you to return at 9:00 in the morning so we can get off to a good start again. jury by noon. Hopefully, we'll get it to the
The instructions won't be long because we're And the closing arguments
working hard to keep them short. won't be that long either. MR. WARD: Yes?
No, Your Honor, I was just standing up.
216 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 apologize. THE COURT: All right. They probably want more than
the five minutes I'm inclined to give them, but I'll keep them to about a half hour, probably, each. I think everything can
be said in a half hour that needs to be said. So ladies and gentlemen, I'll excuse you overnight. Return at 9:00 tomorrow morning. say. You know what I'm going to Don't
Continue to heed the admonition of the Court.
discuss the case among yourselves. anyone else.
Don't discuss it with Don't Don't
Don't go on line and look at anything.
Google any witnesses.
Don't post anything on Facebook.
read anything on Facebook. talk about it all you want.
When the case is all over, you can Overnight here, let's not ruin One more night to exercise
the case by spoiling everything. self-restraint. All right.
We'll see you at 9:00 in the morning. Let me see if we can deal
Let me see counsel in chambers now. with these instructions.
(The jury left the courtroom at 4:01 p.m.) -
C E R T I F I C A T E I, JOAN LAMPKE AVERDICK, RMR-CRR, certify that the foregoing is a correct transcript from the record of proceedings in the above-entitled case. _\s\ Joan Lampke Averdick____ JOAN LAMPKE AVERDICK, RMR-CRR Official Court Reporter _ March 6, 2013 Date of Certification
217 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 INDEX
SARAH JONES Cross-examination........................... Page Redirect examination........................ Page DEFENSE WITNESSES NIK RICHIE Cross-examination............................. Direct Examination............................ Recross-examination........................... Redirect Examination.......................... Further cross-examination..................... KRISTY MOLONY Direct Examination............................ Cross-examination............................. Redirect Examination.......................... Recross-examination...........................
Page Page Page Page Page Page Page Page Page
93 163 197 211 214 148 157 158 159
Exhibit No. 24, Fourth posting on thedirty.com, 12/8/09 Admitted........................................... Page 129 DEFENSE EXHIBITS Exhibit A, Ben-Gal Cheerleader Regulations Admitted........................................... Page Exhibit B, Photo of Sarah Jones Admitted........................................... Page Exhibit C, Photo of Ben-Gal cheerleaders' trip to Kuwait Admitted........................................... Page
3 7 8
218 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Exhibit D, Biography of Sarah Jones on Bengals website Admitted........................................... Page Exhibit E, Ben-Gal cheerleaders' calendars Admitted........................................... Page Exhibit F, Poster of Pro Bowl cheerleaders Admitted........................................... Page Exhibit G, Photo of Sarah Jones at Pro Bowl Admitted........................................... Page Exhibit H, Sarah Jones' medical records Admitted........................................... Page Exhibit I, Sarah Jones' plea documents in state court Admitted........................................... Page -
11 12 14 15 21 26