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Judge Yvette Palazuelos(JYP)
Attorneys Present in court:-
Third Party-Michael Jackson Estate – Patricia Millett(PM)
Jackson Family – Brian Panish(BP). Kevin Boyle(KB).
AEGLive. RP. PG – Jessica Stebbins(JS). Melvin Putnam(MP)
Michael Jackson attorneys was ordered to appear to answer in regards to documents they have
sealed and applied to Appeals court to seal what this court did not seal, also coalition specifics
PM. Your Honor the Estate did file yesterday response and respective questions in what we are
are seeking to have sealed.
JYP. We have not received this.
PM. Your honor we did send a courtesy copy also to be delivered it was filed late in the day.
JYP. Well we were not here yesterday.
PM. Here is a copy you honor
Judge is looking through documents
PM. Your honor I may have given you the wrong thing. This is the amended filing. There is a
motion to seal which will be heard in August in the Appeals court relating to Motions in Limine.
More Motions in Limine came in, we didn’t file another motion we just updated this one,
Including the additional which are all Medical records.
JYP. OK. Well let me ask you did you confer with counsel what it is that they introduced into the
PM. We have not done that.
JYP. Is there a reason why you didn’t
PM. I left to go out of town, I was out of town. All we are seeking to file were either filed in
Motion in Limine or Summary Judgment motion which has already been filed with the court,
either side has not provided us with exhibit list or specifics of medical records/information they
wish to use in trial. The protective order in place does state the anybody can use documents filed
can be introduced into trial. With subject to what can be introduced at trial, the highly
confidential records which are medical records. The designated parties need to give 5 days notice
as to what it is they wish to use. I did call the counsel to find out exactly what it is they want to
use. If they want to continue now we are happy to look at it.
JS. We do have a tentative your honor, we have not had chance to talk to Mrs. Millett
JYP. Ok do you have any objections to them being used in trial.
PM. We don’t not have objection to them being used in trial, depending which records you are
referring to, we do not want them being made public and spread around the world.
JYP. If they are introduced into trial, they will be public records, accessed by anyone. So you
must assume that now. So that assumption you to any of those medical records being suppressed
PM. If there is no protection. Maybe not put them up on a giant screen, and only provide them to
the jury and witness, maybe close the court room. I don’t knw what the actual records are in this
issue. The general public does not have right of access to /confidential medical information. The
Estate are a third party, we don’t have any financial interest in this case, all we want to do is
protecting Michael Jackson name and legacy against improper dissemination.
JYP. Have you read the court of appeals order.
PM. Yes and if you look at Exhibit E to what we submitted today, it states we have shown
sufficient cause to seal medical information. There are no further orders in the court of appeals.
They asked us to make a showing and we fulfilled that request, court of appeals are satisfied with
what we provided them.
JYP. For now. Im sure on the day of the trial where medical information will be submitted to
jury, the public
JS. We have no problem giving notice to the estate and they can come here and ague. We intend
to, and will be fairly evasive to introduce medical testimonies at trial. Potential witnesses will be
discussing it, physicians will be introducing Michael Jacksons “medical information” throughout
his life, want to seal some of that information. And may come to court with those orders. But
your honor will decide what can or cannot be sealed. we will certainly put together a list for the
Estate, and those physicians
JYP. The problem is I don’t want to be in the middle of trial, then every morning there is a
sealing order from physicians or estate asserting this claim that portion of something should be
sealed. Its not practical unless there is an absolute right. Even so then public interest is
outweighed by privacy which is not a absolute right. It’s a good idea you give them a list, and if
there is something in particular they object to. If we can eliminate a lot of that. Its going to be
uphill battle for the Estate.
BP. Your honor if some experts say something and we want to cross examine. they want 5 days,
3 says to derail, that said, we have attended that we are introducing only testimonies not records.
We can’t be hamstrung at trial by these orders.
JS. It may make sense to set some sort of hearing on specific medical issues, we can give the
Estate a list of physicians, ours is fairly extensive. A number testified on issues related on this
occasion, and that may change to. And there is value to resolving these issues now rather than
day to day basis in trial.
KB. Terms of the trial practicality is problem is paragraph 12 of protective order, requiring either
party to give 5 days’ notice as to providing confidential information prior to use at trial,
JYP is that the protect order or is that the?
KB It’s the protective order which presumably what the sealing will be based off, this is what Mr
Panish is saying, nobody knows whats going to happen 5 days from now, I can put the Estate on
notice now, we are going to be using medical testimonies, but we don’t know what pacific
documents are going to be used but until direct examine, cross examine The Estate has notice as
to everyone that’s been deposed, they have been given access to that information, they can
monitor that daily and file a motion if they want to, but this notice is impossible
JS. If the court feels there are burden because of the protective order they may wish to modify
the provisions of protective order but it should remain in place, which was stipulated to the
parties with the consent of the estate and which defendants are willing to bide by. Though we are
not planning on doing this on a daily basis by not giving them a list up front and it may require
modification down the line. Information may come up which will be impractical to give 5 days’
JYP as long as decisions are made right away I get that
BP are we talking about medical records or are we talking about everything, for example they
have 23,000 exhibits, so are we ….. we cant even tell what they are because they don’t give any
descriptions, how are we to way which ones they are to begin with, that’s unfair if somebody
says something, and we want to cross examine, they will be “objection, highly confidential”
JS Highly confidential is only medical records and information relating to them. Nothing else.
Any emails or financial there is a notice on those.
JYP the only thing we are talking about is medical records
JS that’s the only thing requiring trial notice.
BP then they shouldn’t be getting protective orders for anything but medical records
JS this is the point of our brief there are two issues here, protective order which protects
everything produced in discovery that will never be used at trial, then procedures to what can be
used at trial, anything produced in discover is presumed private unless produced at trial then its
JYP right, but if they show up in cross examination because somebody says something, if its
designated highly confidential they can do it?
JS everything can be but medical records, obviously if I see a email address I may say can you
pull that down real quick so I can take out the email address they put it back up,
JS once it produced and used in trial it is public
JYP so the only thing that is an issue is medical records which are highly confidential because
they require 5 day’s notice?
PM practical suggestion is that sensitive exhibits list, we are willing to go through then provide
notice saying yes we wish to seal this or this. A lot of the medical providers who deposed are
outside of California, they may not be coming here, we do not have those depositions. We
attended a handful of depositions. We require list of people on the list and assuming there may be
people that didn’t make it to the list that are medical providers, I understand there are Voir Dires
under way, but before anyone gets into a situation, so as not to make it a last minute thing there
are 14,000 exhibits which must contain everything, we would like to jump ahead to resolve our
concerns which is to solely protect Mr Jacksons legacy from unwanted intrusion, if there is a
exhibit they want to use one line from a document, rest of which is not relevant, we will let them
use that one line, but will not allow the world to get this private information just because Mr
Jackson was celebrity
JYP what you are suggesting cannot work, I cant see how it will work
PM if we are given information prior, so we can have a general understanding…
JYP if you had the information ahead of time, you would be trying the case. Counsel on both
sides need to make snap decisions on those records
PM you honor that’s just………..
JS we can provide exhibit lists to see what medical records are on it, many of AEG’s records are
not medical records relating to Mr Jackson, but we don’t know if it will work.
KB Im not clear if they are talking about medical records or testimonies about medical
information, if they are concerned they can send us that information, but the Estate already
allowed medical witnesses to testify for hours on the stand, and by video, its already out there, so
how can they restrict us line by line on our. They are mixing words, are we talking about just
records or testimonies, Also stamped confidential by (I think AEG) and the Estate are things like
Kenny Ortega(show director) going on record talking about Michaels health, what he observed
with Michael now that’s all stamped confidential hes not a Doctor, this has gone beyond Medical
JYP the terms “Medical Record” is loose
JS medical records is clear some testimonies are no Highly confidential, confidential can be
used at trial, but not highly confidential Definition, “Medical records which are created by
provided to a medical provider regarding care ship of the patient as well as the document or
communication between patient and medical provider, so it does include testimony of the
medical provider. Its principally medical records and testimonies relating to medical records.
Many experts have discussed medical testimony and records. It’s not just records its testimony of
those experts also
JYP easiest thing would be to change the presumption, and that it will be produced at trial and
put the burden on the Estate to identify what it is so confidential and that it has not been
disclosed at the criminal case. They may come along and say there may be one line we don’t
want disclosed. Its not practical in case of the media and parties.
PM we don’t have all the evidence produced in discovery, we are not a party to the case, I
suggested give me exhibit list, give me depositions of the witness, am I asking you to give me
your trial testimony. I understand when someone is on the stand they may testify, that’s is not
what we are talking about, there is a pool of information out there that currently exist. We are
happy to go through and identify as potential, whats on the exhibit list, and depositions on the
JYP well ok, the witness list has been filed a long time ago, I don’t know why you are looking to
them to provide that to you. Its public record. All you have to do is pull up the docket
PM I don’t have the depositions.
KB My understanding of how this is worked out between the Estate and AEG. When we signed
off on the confidentiality we didn’t stipulate this, we did it to ease not to bother the court, the
Estate had been the “Gate keeper” of all the medical records and depositions, the Estate has
redacted certain medical information before it was produced. Im confused because everything
has already been filtered by the Estate. They know it all
BP they cite specific experts testimonies in the depositions and experts to exclude, its obvious
they have seen something. Same thing should be with the protective order if anything they feel is
“Highly confidential” they should tell us or it shouldn’t apply
JYP They have already stated nothing is “Highly confidential” except for medical records and if
you want to use them at trial, you are free to do so
BP and confidential too with the presumption, nothing ….
JS the protective order provides for parties and producing parties to designate what is
confidential, there are over 50 third parties that have produced confidential information, Plaintiff
had opportunity to know this, they have contacted us before filing, “Hey can we file this.” I said
yes. There hasn’t been any documented.. and none of that is an issue for trial, because at trial all
of that can be used.
JYP OK, protective order can remain in place for things that are “highly confidential”
“Confidential” material can be used at trial
KB the protective order states confidential material can be used in “good faith” that is not
happening since over 90% of documents produced by AEG are stamped confidential, I am
referring to emails from AEG to reporters, how is that confidential. They have justify what they
did by focusing on personal email address. Tim Wooley’s personal email address, was tour
accountant working for AEG, he was operating the “This Is It” tour from that email address.
Sending emails around the world, to all kinds of outside parties. How is that a confidential email
address? That has been put into the public domain, its no longer a “Private email” address. We
are being made to retract all emails, they should be asked to send all their documents with those
email addresses retracted.
JS the court of Appeals have made an order saying that private emails and phone numbers meet
the standard of “Private.” Also your honor ordered those should be sealed and since we are
taking about a third parties email address its not relevant in any way to this case, he is a non
party to this case, there is no reason to make that public.
JYP. that can be used as long as the “email address” is redacted.
KB but we do not want to be accused of giving it out if one document with that email address is
misplaced. We are the only gate keepers of the documents, according to the protective order AEG
who stamped those emails confidential, especially states they can violate the order at will, so the
huge burden is on us
JS the protective order does not say AEG can violate it at will, it says any party who produces it
can do with it what they want. If AEG start handing out confidential documents loosed its status,
and of course we have not done that. Plaintiff have designated confidential Prince and Paris
depositions, we can not give those out that how a protective order works.
KB yes, but how does a email reach sealing standards. A document that was sent around the
world. Defendants asked for emails addresses on the record, they asked for cell phone numbers.
Mr Wooley sent out over 18,000 around the world, now those emails are confidential. It’s a gag,
this is not right
JS plaintiffs said they had no problem redacting private email address, we are not trying to
burden them, we can bring that down a little, there are lots of options and ways to show the jury,
I don’t think it is a hamstring, if it is your honor can revisit it and unseal everything, I wont say
pull that unless it is something that legitimately needs to be protected. Designated documents
confidential emails did contain some confidential information, sometimes they relate to other
artist in different parts of AEG operations they have had years to challenge that and they haven’t
done it. None of that is a issue for trial, we are past filing stages, so there is no burden
JYP I agree, protective order will stay in place, and private emails, telephone numbers under seal
unless court of appeals says otherwise, which I don’t think they will
KB what is a private email
JYP emails used privately other than for business
JS any emails with @AEGlive or @AEG are not private
KB every document they gave us was were personal and were related to the case.
JYP what value is there to an email, if it says Tim Wooley why does it matter where it came from
BP that is the point, if he is using it for business how is it private
JS again your honor just because someone uses a email it doesn’t mean it should be placed in a
public file and shared around the world, many people on this tour have their social security
numbers in those correspondence for many reasons, that does not make them presumptuously
public. It could be used for business but still private
KB we are talking about a lot of documents here, if they feel it contains private into in the emails
they should provide it to us redacted
JYP we have already done that
JS there is no problem in this, plaintiff can use whatever they like if we see it at trial we will pull
it. At the end of trial before exhibits are placed in the public we go back in and remove
anybody’s SS number or private information. Then we are not talking about hundreds of
thousands of documents, we are just talking about the ones used at trial.
JYP ok lets get back to the Estate, I think the burden of proof is up to you to show me what you
think is so private and highly confidential that is shouldn’t be disclosed
PM I am happy to do that, but I don’t have the material to look at, I need the exhibits and the
JS we will give you our witness list and exhibits if you don’t have that information we will get it
JYP we will give it to you? We need to have a date
JS I don’t know how much it is, I can get you the list this afternoon, I think this should be
resolved quick. I don’t know how many medical records we actually got
JYP they produced medical records to you, now you are going to tell them what it is you are
JS we will give them the exhibit and witness list, then they are going to inform us, the Estate
have already viewed the medical records, the questions is the depositions. The Estate attended
some but not all, they certainly have not attended the recent depositions by experts many discuss
medical information. Its not a problem to get to them those depositions as soon as they identify
which ones they don’t have. The Estates order contains third party records but that wont be a
JYP the medical information contains information relating to third parties?
JS the depositions do, for example LAPD coroners, its not big deal they can decide which and
which way they want to go.
JYP presumably they were from criminal trial
JS not all of them, and some of them are extensive files
KB we are not trying to burden the Estate here, but they basically go through the list mark every
doctors testimony sealed, we know what they want sealed, a doctor testifying medical
information of Michael Jackson, that is everything.
JYP well that order will be denied, a whole deposition should be sealed, is not going to happen
PM what Mr Boyle is looking at is a motion, a response we gave with respect to documents that
have been filed previously either In connection with Motion in Limine or Summary Judgment
papers, which we did get copies of those filings AEG and Mr Boyle, beyond that we don’t know
what they intend to use at trial. There were dozens of depositions from medical providers and I
anticipate a lot of it wont come in. if we have a procedure that’s workable.
JYP well contact the plaintiffs see what they have, im sure they have Doctors, you can look at
their depositions im assuming?
KB AEG did not move to seal “Plaintiffs oppositions to summary judgment.” The Estate has
moved to seal our opposition and sound like that’s not an issue any more concerning medical
JYP is that true
PM Plaintiffs filed their entire summary judgment under seal, we were only interested in
redacting or removing confidential medical information, over the weekend we have had someone
go through and have done a blacked out version containing the medical information, we were
never moving to seal it. They should have done a redacted version, not the whole thing under
seal. Our order was only concerning the medical information. We have copies here for everyone.
BP So you will give us a copy
PM Yes, we have created a public version taking out the stuff we care about the rest can be
JYP that’s a step in the right directions, I don’t know if we are there but…..
KB I am just talking about the actual oppositions portion I am not talking about the..
PM there is this
KB yeah that should not even be sealed, we have already filed our brief in court of appeals, it
says the same thing to your honor so I don’t know why that should be blacked out or sealed
JYP I need the lawyers to come up with the date when they can…
KB You honor this is all blacked out
BP this is opposition points of authorities … this is
JS I think most pages are like that… Your honor we can give them the list this afternoon. Can
you give us back a list of things you don’t have?
PM by tomorrow
JS by tomorrow
JYP don’t file
PM I cant file its not my job, we just done it to identify the material we care about, this is motion
already been ruled upon
Jackson's attorneys looking through all the pages blacked out
KB when we filed provisionally under seal we had no obligation to file it under seal, we have no
idea what others want redacted
JYP yes I get it
JYP you did it as caution to others, a lot of people do that, motions were on calendar so it wasn’t
ordered so you were being fair about it
JS we have had another two third parties, medical providers who want us to file under seal, I
don’t know what their orders are, but at the same time if they are going to be excluded at trial
because of motion in limines then that may be appropriate but that’s going to be up to your
honor. However medical information should be used at trial, however your honor wants to use
those, but they are essential to our case and to present to the jury
JYP which means they will be public they will not be sealed, so what I need is a date by which
the estate will tell me what documents they want under seal, unless this is what this is, what you
have just handed me
PM what was provided only relates to law and motion matters, if I get a list today, do you have
an estimate when.
JYP I have another week or two
PM if it’s going to be another week or so we can definitely get that done
JYP what about ten days
PM that’s fine
JS ten days your honor, we have a number of hearing on the 24
, perhaps you can make
it on those two days
JYP right 25
Jacksons attorneys still talking between themselves looked through the blacked out version of
their opposition to summary judgment, memorandums points of authority
JS your honor will be deciding on motions of experts on that day so you will have a better idea of
what is at hand
PM what time your honor
Thursday at 9. Wednesday at 9.30
Disclaimer:- These are not verbatim as they are taken from hand written notes,