You are on page 1of 35

Working Copy Page

co
o
o
8/31/98 o
o
o
MOHAMED SAD10 ODEH was interviewed at Nairobi, Kenya, o
from August 15, 1998, through August 28, 1998. Also present
o
during these interviews werejnvestigators |^^^|ljj^^^^^^l
H^HH^^^^^^Hj^Hland, at times, Assistant United
States Attorney PATRICK FITZGERALD. OOEH was advised of the
identities of the interviewing agents and was advised that he had
certain rights. OOEH was asked if he understood English enough
to comprehend his rights and to answer questions if he chose to.
OOEH responded that he was comfortable speaking English and would
ask questions if he did not understand his rights or anything
investigators should say.

OOEH was then informed that the FBI agents were


representatives of the United States Government and that under
United States law, he (OOEH) had certain rights. It was
explained that the FBI agents wanted OOEH to be sure that he
understood those rights. ODEH was told that he did not have to
speak to the FBI or answer any questions, even if he had
previously spoken to the Pakistani authorities. ODEH was advised
that if he chose to speak, anything he said could be used against
him in a U.S. court or elsewhere. ODEH was further advised that
in the United States, he would have the right to talk to a
lawyer, to get advice before questioning and that he could have a
lawyer present during any questioning and that in the U.S. if he
could not afford a lawyer, one would be provided to him, should
he desire, before any questioning. ODEH was advised that should
he decide to speak with the FBI without a lawyer present^ he
could stop answering questions at any time and that refusal to m
speak could never be used as evidence against him in a U.S. o
i
court. a\M
I
ODEH then asked whether a Kenyan lawyer was available. CM
ODEH was told that under Kenyan law, the authorities were under H
no obligation to provide him an attorney and that he could be
questioned by Kenyan authorities but did not have to answer.
OOEH was advised that three possibilities existed regarding
8
CO

Case ID : 315N-NY-267856-30Z Serial : 1144


315N-NY-267856-S-1 103
Working Copy ---- Page
o
questioning. OOEH was advised that he could talk to both U.S. o
o
o
ODEHwasalsoadvised that no lawyer was available and should he
want a lawyer present during questioning, the U.S.
\ o
o
representatives would be compelled to leave. OOEH then asked if
it was possible to speak to U.S. authorities alone.

IAmerican authorities discussed that


issue outside^Uij_s_gresence, OOEH stated that he would talk to
both the FBI iHHJiJJillllllHH- °°EH was again
informed of his right to silence and that he did not have to
answer any questions. ODEH reviewed, read out loud, and signed
an improvised Advice of Rights form at 11:25 a.m. local time,
August 15, 1998. OOEH then asked a clarifying question as to
what would happen if he later changed his mind and decided that
he did not want to speak without a lawyer. It was made clear
that OOEH always had the right to change his mind and choose any
of the options outlined, including not talking to anyone. ODEH
then stated that the Pakistani authorities lied to him after he
told them (Pakistani authorities) the complete truth. OOEH
indicated that the Pakistanis told him that he would be let go if 9/11 Law Enforcement Privacy
he told the truth.

MOHAHHED SAOIQ OOEH, date of birth (DOB): March 1,


1965; place of birth (POB): Tabouk, Saudi Arabia; aka Abu Yasser,
Abu Muaath; current residence: the town of Witu, Kenya; is a
citizen of Kenya and Jordan. ODEH is of Palestinian heritage and
his parents reside in Jordan. ODEH is married toj en
a
o
i
at
ODEH stated that he is a member of AL QAEDA, known as (N
"the base," which is USAHA BIN LADIN's organization. OOEH stated
I
M
that he left Palestine to attend the Far Eastern University
located in Manila, Philippines, in late 1986 to pursue studies in ot
engineering and architecture. ODEH did not care about the Muslim 8
concept of "Jihad" (Holy War) at the time even though there was M
Jihad activity in the Philippines during that time but it was
isolated and far from Manila. OOEH states that after he became a
"good Muslim" he used to go to the Islamic Center in Manila. The
center was run by JAMITYA ISLAHIYTA and the KUWAITI ISLAMIC
in
Working Copy -- Page m
• o
o
REVIVAL and was located on Timog Avenue, in the Quezon City part o
of Manila. ]-..a Palestinian from Kuwait, age 32 at the o
o
time, was in charge of the center. An individual named! o
in charge of the library and used to give ODEH books o
and cassettes:

OOEH stated that while; in Manila he UvedjHth two


Palestinians, f" fj frcfli-.GSza. and/ \from Rama 1 1 ah.
Shortly thereafter.^^^^^^1I I
Cleaves and'^"*"*"*
I ""••-.. \•I takes res'ittence
with OOEH an OOEH stated that an hidfv^ual named
Palestinian
\s between the seventy Muslim student in electrical engifreejring,
sects. OOEH becomes"
supported by his father, began to teach OOEK and\e

conservative while/ [philosophically breaks away, however,


they remain living together. OOEH becomes .interested in Jihad
and the Mujahadeen via the KUWAIT! ISLAMIC REVIVAL at the Islamic
Center. ODEH is indoctrinated by watching video tapes and
listening to cassette tapes of ABOALLAH AZZAM, who is the leader
of the Arabs' fighting in Afghanistan. OOEH was inspired by these
tapes and people who were leaving the Philippines to join the 9/11 Law Enforcement Privacy
Mujahadeen in Afghanistan. OOEH's father sent him t 1,000 to
complete his thesis in school but he used the money instead to
travel to Afghanistan. ODEH stated that .he -GflHett Shei K.L-- _J
I tin Jordan to consuU if he (ODEH)
should complete his studies before traveling to Afghanistan.
ShetkF" ttotd uOEH to go to Afghanistan inmediately before
completing studies. ..

OOEH traveled withT L a Palestinian from CO


Kuwait, andl (from Muscat, Oman. The three of
them left Manila by air to Hong Kong, then Karachi, and overhand o
to Peshawar. Upon arrival in Peshawar, they stayed atl i
I inhere they Left, their luggageand
o>
Csl
received an identification card. From there, they and others I
9/11 Law Enforcement CM
were taken by small bus to the Afghan/Pakistan border, where they Sensitive
changed vehicles and were taken to the Al Farouk Camp. ODEH CX
stated that this occurred in October 1990. The leader of the
B
camp was|_ J froin Saudi Arabia. was
W
replaced after two weeks by an individual named /
from Mecca, Saudi Arabia.
(nickname)
/"(ni<
s
OOEH received two months of military training.
Working Copy Page VO
on
described as a basic course divided into three levels. The first o
o
level is with small arms such as the AK-47 assault rifle and on o
to more powerful belt fed light machine guns. The second level o
o
is topography/map reading and basic explosives. The explosives o
course is for the use of mines and grenades and then on to the o
use of high explosives such as C3, CA and TNT. The third level
is in the use of more complicated weapons such as anti-aircraft
guns, mortars and anti-tank missiles. ODEH recalled that there
were nine or ten instructors at the camp and remembered/

ODEH indicated that the students at the camp were


divided into groups of ia-16 people and that the camp held about
•'9/11 Law Enforcement Privacy
150-200 or more if necessary. After training, ODEH returned to
in Peshauar fr. mc^t fit-fro ,. trah^ ,>.„ ui M -rtaiA K~ ......
9/11 Law Enforcement Sensitive
deployed. ODEH explained that Arabs were deployed together as a
group and tended to stay together for reasons of culture and
religious variations between them and Afghans. An individual
namedl f from Saudi Arabia was in charge of sending the
recruits to their first assignments.

ODEH did not deploy at this time because he remained in ,.-•••'_','.•


Peshawar for a month to get dental treatment. ODEH was thet^ent
to Jalalabad in December 1991/January 1992. ODEH's assignment
was a rear or back line support group for the froritx' ODEH tended
to the injured and only went to the front line>6r one week and

o saw no action. ODEH only stayed at this assignment for one month
under the command of I I from.^audi Arabia. \H was transferred to:iahother nearby camp to teach

w

small courses on the AK:::«7 and worked for I J oi

n
L -' ODEH was there only one month, then sent
- • to
back - Peshawar.
-», While in Peshawar, ODEH meets) o\M
who'
' was in charge of the clinic in Jalalabad. CM
jinvited ODEH to return to Jalalabad to.be a medic for a
small salary. ODEH works for J fas a medic. While
Oi
at the clinic, ODEH is wounded in the head in an air raid and is
sent to Peshawar for ten days, then returns to Jalalabad. ODEH 8
remains at the clinic in Jalalabad for only one month because he to
was bored and returned once again to Peshawar.
Working Copy Page r-
<n
o
OOEH meets a friend namedL Jin Peshawar who o
encouraged him to take Islamic courses at a school called HAHAD o
AL OUITAB WA SUNNAH. OOEH went to the school for three months
o
o
until late 1991 and then decided that he wanted to remain in o
Afghanistan and become part of a group. OOEH was attracted to o
USAMA BIN LAD1N and the group AL QAEDA because it did not matter
what nationality you were. ODEH was not interested in joining
any Palestinian groups because its members took orders from a
chain of command and would often do things that were not
Islamically correct if ordered to do so.

ODEH explained that AL QAEDA means the foundation or


the base and means it is the base of military support of the
Muslim people. AL QAEDA, according to ODEH, was looking for
common goals for all Muslim people. ODEH further stated that AL
QAEOA used to have 500 members but now has only 150, 50 of whom
are outside of Afghanistan. OOEH was first approached by AL
QAEDA while he was still at the basic training camp. ODEH's
behavior, hU ability to work with others, his knowledge of the
religion and respect towards others were the reasons he was
approached to join AL QAEDA. ODEH at first was not sure that he 9/11 Law Enforcement Privacy
wanted to make a commitment called beyat. A beyat, as explained
by ODEH, is to swear to Allah that you will follow USAMA BIN
LADIN as long as he follows Allah.

ODEH stated that eventually one year passed before he


decided to make beyat to BIN LADIN andI..AL OAtDA. During that one
year, OOEH spent time at another camp called! J
run by| Htil I then on to the!.......................Hor 9/11 Law Enforcement tn
more advanced training in mi I itary tactics. AflU THOMAMA was in Sensitive M
charge off f and some of the
«*)
from Saudi Arabia. SALEHEDDINE from Iran o
ov
J was the beginning of 199Z., CN!
M
After the additional training,^ ftold ODEH
that he was ready and qualified to go to Peshawar to make beyat.
ODEH wanted some stability and discipline in an organization that
didn't have a high turnover of members. ODEH made beyat and
8
officially joined AL QAEDA in March 1992. A representative of W
BIN LADIN named I > took the beyat from ODEH after/"""" I
got a letter of introduction (probably) from I I OOEH
00
Working Copy Page en
o
o
had to promise to help all Muslim people everywhere. o
o
o
After joining AL QAEDA, OOEH returned to the[_ o
I I Afghanistan, to get his assignment. Since ODEH o
had medic training;.he was sent back to the I I as a
medic in April 1992. OOEH remained there for two months then
attended an advanced explosives course at the in June
1992. OOEH stated that I I from the
Camp was in charge at .One of the instructors
was an Egyptian named C. '9/11 Law Enforcement Privacy
l ~"7 was skilled in explosives technology and instructed
students in the use of mathematical formulas to determine the
type and amount of explosives to do a job. OOEH took some
courses from I \and described him as an ordinary At ->
QAEDA member.! I was also an
explosives instructor at the camp. His course was on the use of
mines. ODEH remained at the camp for an additional month past
the course to perform guard duty and to rest. At this time ODEH 9/11 Personal Privacy
underwent treatment for I ^i
Pakistan, then went to Peshawar for further recovery.

Afterwards, OOEH went to retrieve his Jordanian


passport, which was left at the I I which uaa no
closed since the Afghan/Soviet war was winding down. His '9/11 Law Enforcement Sensitive
personal papers were transferred to the I . l
Pakistan. ODEH's passport had expired and he renewed it at the
Jordanian Embassy in Islamabad. This occurred at the. end of
1992. His new passport was due to expire in January 1998. After
getting the new passport, ODEH traveled'back to PeshawaAto a new CO
AL QAEDA house called thel -••' ... --t:-:-:;'6oEH stayed there
for several weeks and wasn't, interested in attending any more ... en
oi
camps. During thi* time,I H found ODEH at
o\M
[and told him (OOEH) to come to another house to meet a
leader, [ I in Hayatabad. OOEH was told by CM
that the Jihad in Afghanistan was over and that they were moving
to do Jihad elsewhere. OOEH was told to prepare for travel,
first to Kenya, then to Somalia. s

W
OOEH left Pakistan for Nairobi, Kenya, on a Pakistan
International Airways (PIA) flight in March of 1993. OOEH stayed
in Nairobi, Kenya, for about two weeks. OOEH stayed at the
Ambassador Hotel for the first night, then with a friend,
a\
Working Copy Page o
o
an AL QAEDA member from Oman, for two weeks. ODEH at o
o
first made arrangements to travel two weeks earlier to Somalia o
with|_ Jbut could not get the proper visa. OOEH wound o
o
up traveling on a smalt plane that smuggles khat into Somalia
with OMAR from Morocco. OOEH landed by the Kenya-Somali border
and waited for someone to come pick tiiiil up. OOEH waited in the
border town of Handera, Kenya, and was takwv:it> the town of
Belahawa in Somalia. ""-••.;;;--...

ODEH stated that his mission in Somalia was to train o


some of the tribes in fighting and to provide food and money.
ODEH participated in training people in small arms and medical
attention. These trainees 'in turn would be instructors for other
Somali's. During this time, OOEH was 600 km from Mogadishu, where
the United Nations (UN) had begun relief operations. OOEH
trained this tribe for three weeks.

Note: The interview was concluded at 6:00 p.m. local time on


August 15, 1998. During the subsequent interviews, ODEH
stated that he was in good condition and appeared well M'''9/ll
Law Enforcement
rested and fed. ODEH was asked at the beginning of each Privacy
session if he would like to continue talking, to which he
responded yes.

ODEH was asked to identify a picture of.an individual


known ««l I rfiEH was not told the name
of the pictured individual. ODEH stated that he did not
recognize the person in the picture. m
\....---"""
ODEH was also asked to review an eight picture footo
spread containing the picture of I ....-•-'" I oi
ODEH stated that he could not identify any of the individuals in o>
the photo spread. .. . CM
CM
ODEH stated that he was ordered to Somalia bv.l I

which was coming from USAMA BIN LADIN.Of the seventeen
different tribes in Somalia, AL QAEDA selected to help the one
which had the closest philosophical ties to AL QAEDA. The tribe
sto
selected was Urn Rchan. They were trained for seven months. This
tribe was affiliated with .UNITED MUSLIMS, AL 1TTIHAD ISLAMIYAA
and hadl las its leader. According to ODEH, the
time frame is April 1993. While in Somalia, ODEH hears that the
Working Copy Page
O
UN people in Mogadishu and Kismau are causing fear among the O
tribes because the tribes are afraid they will lose power if the O
UN takes over. The tribes were also afraid that they would be O
O
disarmed if they accepted aid. The position of AL QAEDA O
regarding aid to Somalia by civilian organizations was that it O
was acceptable, it was, however, unacceptable for U.S. armed
troops to be in Somalia. BIN IADIN/At QAEDA considered this
colonization. ODEH was asked if BIN LAD IN would have attacked
civilians and workers like he attacked U.S. troops. ODEH
answered no, but BIN LADIN supported the attacks in Mogadishu.

ODEH stated that he remained with the Um Rehan tribe


until November 1993. During that time, COEH and others refreshed
their own fighting skills. ODEH reported that I j.a
leader of a group in South Somalia, asked an AL QAEDA leader
naroedl Nor help. ODEH states thatr Vnhile
returning from Mogadishu, stops to take over from'
is described as a big leader of AL QAEDA and very close
to BIN LADIN-and has beenwith BIN LAOIN since the beginning.
\s Egyptian, about 42 yearsi old {at.the time in Somalia) and
was with the Hujahadeen in.Afghanistan. ODEH knows 'frow
Afghanistan. ODEH stated thatl
at the time. These people were]
Mil, \ Law Enforcement Pr

(0
ODEH and the above went to an area called Dobri and
made a camp. | | left and indicated he was returning t;b O
Sudan. I lhad made an agreement with/ ..-••-' if or the I
<y>
five trainers to travel to instruct people of the Ogaden tribe. <M
i
CM
ODEH recalled what he knew about I ^migginn to
Mogadishu. I I was sent by BIN LADIN to assess the
situation in Mogadishu. Somali leaders AIDEED and ALI HANI were
fighting each other as well as the UN and U.S. I Ttraveled
undercover as a businessman to Mogadishu in November 1993. fT
w
|__| reported that the UN had most of the area under their
control. AIDEEO's tribe (the Hawir) met with[. Jpnd an
Working Copy •<*
Page O
o
individual named either \_ J They O
o
agreed to cooperate with each other to take the UN out of o
Mogadishu by force in military fashion. I Huac happy about o
this meeting. ODEH knew that this would result in AL QAEDA
o
helping SAHAL in Mogadishu. ODEH stated that an individual named
I I s.t-onpgd at ODEH's camp on his way back from Mogadishu and
told ODEH that-he. participated in the actions against the UN in
Mogadishu and that the UN was leaving.

ODEH stated that while he was in Somalia, a shooting


occurred between people in OOEH's group and the UN contingent
while on the road. ODEH stated that his group was split into two
groups and the AL QAEDA group approximately 70 km ahead of him on
the road was involved in some kind of confrontation with UN
personnel.

After Somalia, OOEH came to Kenya in August 1994 with


I I bv hired car. TWev lived together in
''IM'9/11 Law Enforcement Privacy
a rented house in the coastal town of Mombasa. ODEH states they
drove from Somalia to Nairobi, then tp..Mo(nbasa. Also arriving tn
Kenya was I | from Morocco, who he h.ad-met in Afghanistan
and later Nairobi. Other., individuals incinda!"" I :«ka
jWho he had been with in Afghanistan at the |
[ Gamp. ..OD.EJi..described L who
likes to joke and was nine years younger ttisnt himself-» ODEH
stated that l__^ was also a trainer iTi Somalia. Another .
individual was named EZIZIH who was with ODEH in Afghanistan 9/11 Law Enforcement
and Somalia. After arriving in Kenya, I Irigr.irigd to gp. to, Sensitive
CO
the Sudan and then Chechnya. ODEH believes that I Vis, now
in Afghanistan. ODEH himself desired Kenya because it Was a
quiet country and he wished to settle down and get married and o
reside in the Muslim area of Mombasa. . .. a\4
ODEH stated that in November 1994, I I came to
rH
visit him in Mombasa, i i-tias happy to see that ODEH was
married and gave ODEK a fiberglass boat to be used in a wholesale CX
fish business. The arrangement was that the business was for AL
OAEDA. ODEH was entitled to take money for his need to live and
s
W
give the rest to AL QAEDA and to employees that were in AL QAEDA.
ODEH stayed in the fish business for two years. ODEH further
stated that he was paid money by AL QAEDA on a yearly basis.
ODEH last received his yearly advance in November 1997.
CM
Working Copy Page 10 O
^
O
o
In March 1997, ODEH was given a mission by USAMA BIN o
o
LADIN to go back to Somalia to evaluate the situation there. The o
individual, according to ODEH, who gave him the mission on behalf o
of BIN LAD IN wasf\(with a last name that sounds like "el
From the description provided by ODEH,
it was then immediately determined by writer that the individual
named Q _1
converted Muslim o /who was in the
1 Irhad come to Kenya from Sudan and was a
.1 m ..Jl
Tanzanite business.I
friend of BIN LADIN who fought in Afghanistan. ODEtt further

ODEH described an Egyptian named £ (or


aka Khaled, as someone he knew from Afghanistan and
Somalia. |___| is *..memfaer; of AL QAEDA.. and had recently traveled
to Afghanistan; he has a wife arid two>'ctitIdrerv.:--f~~l introduced
OOEH to his -wife. L J left Ha4«>bi..on.August 1, 1998,
after receiving an emergency order to leave Kenya. I
also told ODEH to leave and that the orders were coining from 9/11 Law Enforcement Privacy.

Moofcasa. ODEH stated £__|was in regular contact with AL QAEDA


leadership in Afghanistan and was ordered to tell all AL QAEDA
people to leave Kenya.

ODEH stated that on August 1. 1998.1 lorderea' him


to leave and told him to be out of Kenya by August 6, 1998. ODEH
asked I l-tih"v they were leaving. FADEL responded that «
there was an emergency and there may be a need for them to return •
to Afghanistan. I I gave ODEH one thousand U.S. dollars <n
oi
($1,000) to travel to Karachi, Pakistan, and that someone would
o>
meet him there. ODEH traveled with\. ODEH got eg
caught by the Pakistani authorities and/_^^ was able to get eg
through.
a
ODEH stated that other Kenyan Al QAEDA people traveled
on that day. I frail
8
CO
traveled on the same flight on August 6, 1998. ODEH stated tht
the people traveling met at the Hilltop Hotel in Nairobi in the
days prior to traveling. ODEH stayed at the Hilltop two nights
after traveling by bus from Mombasa all night on August 3, 1998,
to
--•- Working Copy Page 11 «*
o
o
and arriving in Nairobi on August 4, 1998. OOEH slept at the o
Hilltop on August 4 and 5, 1998. OOEH registered with the fake o
name that he had acquired on a bogus passport provided by SALEH.
o
o
o
ODEH stated that I Icarng by the hotel three times by
car and understood that he drove a pick-up truck, according to
conversations. OOEH did not ever actually see| ~| tr.uck.
ODEH was in room 102B and\e in 107A.
I Icame to the hotel late on the last day. OOEH
stated that the others were staying at another hotel about 50.
meters from the Hilltop. OOEH indicated that on August 5, he
left the hotel around 2:30 p.m. to walk alongXpi Avenue to buy
clothes. ODEH purchased a Nike shirt and two books and returned
to the hotel at 4:15. ODEH stated that he did not know that the
American Embassy was located on Hoi Avenue and did not recall
seeing the Embassy. ODEH remained at the hotel until the
following day, August 6, until about 3 p.m. ODEH went out alone
to buy a jacket and towel and to get his shoes shined. When ODEH
returned to the hotel at 5 p.m., I las there. OOEH »nHl I
went out to eat at Malindi Dished I shined his shoes,' then
they both returned to the hotel for 6:30 sunset prayer and to get 9/11 Law Enforcement Privacy
ready to travel that evening. ODEH stated that.J -|:~:;"—==
1 •front'Tahtanfa had already traye.Led- that day at
approximately 3 p.m. via Kenya Airways to Karachi. ODEH and
travelled on Pakistani International Airways to Karachi the
evening of August 6.

OOEH was asked to review pictures taken at the morgue


in Nairobi of the bomb blast victims. ODEH refused to iW at (0
the pictures. .
on
o
ODEH then provided more detailed information concerning i
CTl
his final days in Nairobi. ODEH arrived in Nairobi ..from Mombasa CJ
on August 4, 1998, at 7:30 a.m. .after traveling all night alone. i
He then proceeded to the Hilltop Hotel, which was the prearranged
meeting point. SALEH and I ~~lwere already there. ODEH
went to sleep .until noon time. When ODEH got up, he met I T
i la* they were leaving. They stated that they were going
out to do a small job and would be right back and for ODEH to W
stay behind and rest. OOEH indicated that the "small job" did
not mean something trivial as shopping.
working Copy Page 12
O
ODEH stated that three months prior to his leaving O
O
Kenya, he was told by|_ Jflpt a message from USAMA O
BIN LAD IN that people in AL QAEOA must get ready to travel soon. O
O
OOEH assumed that it would also include his wife and child. He O
was told to get his travel documents in order. Later on, OOEH
left his home in witu for Mombasa to ask I khe details.
I I told OOEH that he had to be out of Kenya by August 6, 1998.
OOEH stated that for all the time he had been a member of AL
OAEDA, something this urgent had never happened to him before.
OOEH stated that he knew of the February 1998 BIN LAD IN fatwa
calling for all Islamic groups to make a front against Americans.
9/11 Law Enforcement Privacy

Approximately 40 days prior to August


IdeliVered"a" message to OOEH thatl
Somalia wanted to meet BIN LADIM and that .OOEH,
must take him to Afghanistan. There was also a message that BIN
LAO IN had new plans to fight and OOEH had to. travel to confer
with BIN LAD1N. OOEH stated that durrhg conversations with
I [stated he likes Kenya and would not do
an operation in Kenya, whereasF [disliked Kenya and wanted to
do an operation in Kenya.

OOEH then discussed some hypothetical situations with


interviewing agents. OOEH was asked if he would participate in a
BIN LADIN operation against the U.S. military in Saudi Arabia.
OOEH answered yes, if it were Islamically correct. He would,
however, first consult a scholar and added that he does not
follow blindly like a cat. OOEH was then asked if he uo\ild do an CO
operation against a U.S. building in Kenya if no Kenyans could be
killed. OOEH said no, because he likes Kenyans and Kenya. OOEH en
was asked if he would participate in an operation to bomb a U.S.
oi
building outside of Kenya in a place such as Tanzania if only o>
<M
Americans were killed. He stated that he would consider it if I
tslamically correct. He further stated that if an operation was
Islamically correct and ordered by BIN LAD1N, he would have no

choice but to do it. ODEH further stated that if he wanted to
kill Americans he could have taken a machine gun and gone after
and strafed American tourists he noticed in Mombasa. ODEH then
8
V)
feigned shooting a machine gun while making a "rat tat tat" sound
with his voice.
Working Copy Page 13 in
o
OOEH left Mombasa in December 1997 to relocate to a o
small town called Uitu. During the feast of Ramadan (March o
o
1998),I I had a business idea to open a o
furniture business because there was good wood in that area. o
OOEH returned to Mombasa withl I While in Mombasa. OOEH met
o
withl ~l who told him to come to a meeting in the town of
Marindi. Later at the meeting is OOEH, I
Iwas supposed to come but was not there. I . Istated
that he had recently come from Afghanistan and that BIN LADIN was
calling all Mujahadeen to return to Afghanistan. OOEH talked to
I I alone, telling him that n'fr-wou.ld relocate to Afghanistan '"---..
because it was at> Islamic country and it would be his -duty to
return. OOEH toldl '^:that he would try to get as,.many
passports as he could. However, 1 l:enly wanted OOEH id get.
one passport. After that, OOEH returned to wTui':'fof:;.wprk and to
wait for hie Jordanian passport to be renewed. OOEH also ^'slded......
I I to Kelp get him a Kenyan passport. Again OOEH related the
story t h a t r I c a m e to visit ItmlnWitg (April 1998) with a
message frorrj \that BIN LADIN had called for us to return ta
Afghanistan, especially AL QAEDA and Mujahadeen.
'9/11 Law Enforcement Privacy
OOEH talked tol tabout BUI TAD1Ndeclaring war
against American people in his last two fatwas. They discussed
if AL QAEDA was right in doing this, they were concerned if they
were ready to face such an enemy. I Istated that the
Hujahadeen in Sudan were against attacking U.S. targets. They
feared that the U.S. was too powerful. Even AL QAEDA in
Afghanistan was questioning BIN LADIN but they still wanted to be
ready to back up BIN LAOlN's fatwa. They were not happy about O
0)
BIN LADtN's first fatwa from one and a half years ago because BIN
LADIN was all alone. .,=="""' en
oi
OOEH further described |_ ...f:as a good friend O>
who enjoys talking about philosophy, has a similar mind set as 04
himself, is stoic and not very sociable. , .. CJ
rH
OOEH stated thatL Jcame to
visit him in Witu about 40 days before ODEH's travel date to give
him two messages from^^^^ ^he first message was about L^_^_T CO
I Ifrom Somalia wanting to see BIN LADIN. The second message
was regarding the latest fatwa from BIN LADIN and how BIN LADIN
got other Islamic terrorist groups to join the front against the
Working Copy Page U V0
o
American people and because of this they all have to travel to o
see BIM LADIN. | [stated that he would return to Afghanistan o
o
to help people in agriculture which is his field of study. I I o
had no travel documents but would.travel even if it meant getting o
fake ones. I I told OOEH to travel ASAP even if he didn't have
o
correct documents. OOEH stated that he became anxious to get his
affairs in order before leaving, OOEH wanted an.additional 10
days because his wife was now in Mombasa with her family. After
| Heft, OOEH remained in Witu for ZO days and left on July 13
for Mombasa. ODEH slept in the town of Marindi tha.t night and .
arrived in Mombasa on July 14. On that day, he tried to .locate
r~"~*\ilLHont)asa. OOEH located 1 \JnOld Town, Mombasa, and.
asked\1 if he needed to travel. [ l told him to try and
get good documents. '|__|:;St.r 11 didn't explain what the rush was
for traveling. ODEH apologized toi \r being late arid:ttasn
asked I ~~\ money in order to get travel documents, I |
directed ODEH to go and find I lwha..o.wns a shop in Mombasa.
OOEH explained that he couldn't findI ZlbeeauseJ t-wgs...iii
Tanzania buying clothes to sell in his shop. ODEH waited for a
few days, then went to another friend calledl I at the
Amani Mosque where OOEH used to pray. / Igave ODEH 6500 ;;:••' 9/11 Law Enforcement Privacy
shillings and OOEH told| [that \d pay him baclc. 1i i '
1 1 descent. He was in
Afghanistan and owns a small trucking business.

ODEH stated that he saw|__-Jthreei days later


regarding his travel documents. They also talked about Kenya
becauseF tcomplained that he can no longer-remain in Mombasa
because he is bored, lonely and misses; tifs wife and it-Hs a
non-Islamic area. ODEH recattcd that three days before August 1, he
tried to meet I Tait the mosque but | "| never showed Up. '..Oh
August 1 he..B3ain arranged to meet| fat the mos^i-ie but;:igain o
i
I [didn't show. ODEH left the mosque, then returned because en
he forgot his umbrella, and met I .--•"' r^Jaho were looking , 01
for ODEH. ODEH stated that he had hoped the trip was canceled so CM
that he could return to Witu. F 1 totd OOEK that other people
were traveling and that! /was scheduled to travel today ,
(August 1, 1998)-to Afghanistan. They told ODEH that \1 was
looking for him to give.htin money to travel. At this point,
U)
I I was shouting at OOEH in the street that h^, must travel.
ODEH told I Tthat he has no papers. I I stated he had a
passport for ODEH and that he (ODEH) only had to get a picture.
Working Copy Page 15
O
O
ODEH told to meet him at[_ Jho O
that night to get the pictures. O
O
O
Within an hour, OOEH loeatedl j.at his home at the O
time of evening prayers. I igave OOEH tl.OOOv.f 1'told
OOEH that| ~|ordered him to travel tociay, \H he
thinks something is going to happen very soon,; that is whythey
had to rush. I tstated that\s traveivng.with
jto[Nairobi, and that Sheik\h them. would be traveling

ODEH left to go tol Ihouse to meet I I


came with I I on. a motor bike. WhenCZ^|]-Masi,alone, he asked
him about the passport. I leave--::;,..
ODEH an expired passport
;
with'
'IB^^^^^M
someone else's picture. There was no vis>"f«r:,Pakistan. I \
told ODEH he would get a visa, renew the passport and buy the
airline ticket. OOEH aave I 1*400. The next day was Sunday,
August 2, and everything was closed including the immigration
office. They could not get a visa until Monday, August 3rd.
ODEH then decided to take advantage of this and left Mombasa on
'!)•
Sunday, August 2, to go to Marindi to see his wife's aunt to , 9/11 Law Enforcement Privacy
settle some furniture business. While there.<.-OOEH get -an -angry
phone call *r«y ~luag looking for ODEH. / /
told ODEH thatt___/was traveling today to Nairobi and he wanted
to see ODEH before he traveled. OOEH complied and traveled to
Mombasa by bus and made arrangements to meet/-•"""/ at the bus
stop at 7:30 p.m but didn't .actually arrive until 9:00 p.m. OOEH
tried to find I rbut couldn't, and found that SALEH had.--"'""
traveled. OOEH returned to hi si istetfp. CO

On Monday, August 3,1 I picked up ODEH at 7rOQ. a.m.


o
in a white Toyota Corolla. They went to the Immigration Service .. i
to get a visa for Pakistan. ODEH asked I H to pick up, tfie..visa, o>
<M
while OOEH went back to hi a I il-'n mat:e arrangements 1
(N
for his wife and child to live with him in Mombasa. .|;> |tater r-l
met ODEH there and they both went tobuy airline tickets on PIA
from Nairobi to Karachi. OOEH and| I purchased the tickets

from the EAGLE TRAVEL AGENCY. I | tnirf nnFH that he had to
travel that day to follow SALEK to Nairobi. ODEH then purchased 0}
a bus ticket to Nairobi. I I remained behind while ODEH
traveled alone all night to arrive at Nairobi at 7:00 a.m. on
s*
Tuesday, August 4. I Istatcd that he had something to do and
00
•»
Working Copy Page 16 O
o
O
Mould leave the next day. I lhad given ODEH the address of o
the Hilltop Hotel and told him to meetI 1there. ODEH checked o
into room 1028. ODEH stated that there Were no telephones in the
o
o
room and the only phones were at reception arid-9 public phone in
the lobby.

After checking in, ODEH saw I las they


were leaving. I I gave ODEH a pair of pants and a shaver..
(razor) in order for 00EH to shave his beard. This was done in
order to conceal OOEK being a Muslim while he traveled. ODER
actually shaved the next day. I I stated that they
were on their way out to do a small job. OOEK then went to
sleep, woke up around noon and then went to check on I I
I | uho.uog elppninn inl "T-Foom. OOEH at first did not
recognizeI I but then recognized him as the.trainer in 9/11 Law Enforcement
explosives/mines from the I |:i«;:Afghanis,tah::and from Iris Sensitive
time in Somalia. ODEH stated that he was not surprised to see
I I surprised to see him. OOEH
stated that -they were both AL QAEDA and were traveling on BIN
LADIN orders back to Afghanistan. |_ Jhad been Hving 9/11 Law Enforcement Privacy
at the Hilltop Hotel for the past two months. He left Mombasa
because he was too tempted by the Arabian women living there,
according to ODEH. I has to'travel on August 6th.

At about 4:00 p.m.. I ~ returned ..to the


hotel. They talked about shopping and what..they b^gghfl' ODEH
believes that/ | was not or would not b^tfa'veling. That
evening.* I left withf .. ^Jand they stayed away all W
night. ODEH was talking withC___|that evening and spVnt the
night ln| "Iroom. They talked about an article..in a <n
magazine called MAJALLA about Islamic Egyptian radicals wanted by o
Egyptian authorities.. They wondered if I I woml<f be <t\
mentioned in the article, but wasn't. ODEH stated thatj I•'"..••'''
| |had taken his luggage out of I jroom so that is why .
ODEH slept there. ::
H
o
OpEH stated that on August 5th he noticed T .- Twas
eating breakfast in SALEH's room at about. 7:30 a.m. W
ODEH to wait forl lit the hotel. OOEH
asked i'to get him a travel bag, socks end a shirt. Later,
| j-eturned with I land took lunch at the
hotel. ODEH left the hotel to go out to buy himself a shirt and
O>

Working Copy Page 17 o
o
o
a cheap jacket. ODEH stated that I I were out all o
night of August 5th into the 6th. ODEH believes that o
\nOnthe
the morning of o
to sleep or spend the night atP o
August 6th, ODEH sa
arrived from r
f who just
Iwer
ere staying in
another hotel close to the Hilltop, approximately 50 meters away
on the same side of the street. 1^-^-1 returned-vittHl-a*-
about 9:00 a.m. I I was happy, which vas in contrast to'"the"" 9/11 Law Enforcement Privacy
way he had been behaving the past few days. I tseemed"normal
and happy. Both were wearing the same clothes fraj..the day
before. Nobody said what they had been doing all night,
then told I 1 to help him with papers and they left.

OOEH
V stated that he concluded that the bomb was built
at house in Hairobi. He assumes that it could have been
built
Ut by|_ ^ who were in Nairobi for a while.

OOEH was asked if he had any knowledge on how '•'9/11 Law Enforcement Sensitive
explosives could be snuggled into Kenya. OOEH stated that
hypothetically speaking, a good way would be to put explosives in

OOEH also spoke of his knowledge and training regarding


the logistics of carrying out a terrorist operation. OOEH stated
that in order to attack a target you must have two groups. The
first group does the intelligence work, such as procuring
supplies, doing surveillances, vehicles, planning, etc. The
first group would try to determine weaknesses in the target; they
may test the target by sending someone in to determine the CO
security. Also, they must determine the material used in the o
I
construction of the target to determine the amount and type of 0)
explosives. ODEH stated that if a physical surveillance is too M
I
obvious, then the first group may surveil the target byF CM

I T h e second group are the ones who carry out the 01


attack. These people are good Muslims but they are not experts 8
in anything that would have a long-term benefit to the rest of w
the group.

ODEH stated that he did once go by the U.S. Embassy in


Nairobi in 1994. ODEH claims that he doesn't know where it is
O
Uorking Copy Page 18 m
o
o
located. He stated that while looking for the Djibouti Embassy o
to renew his Jordanian passport, he happened upon the American o
o
Embassy and stopped at the gate. OOEH asked the security guard o
where the Dibouti Embassy was located. o
OOEH stated that the best way to destroy a building is
to put the explosives inside the building. This is the most
efficient way because the explosive power is in an enclosed area.
If this cannot be done, the other option is to get as close to
the building as possible.

OOEH talked about the friends of AL QAEDA as being


different than AL QAEDA members who have made beyat or pledged
allegiance to BIN LAD1N. Friends of AL QAEDA support BIN LADIN
and his goals but are not formal members of his army. They would
assist AL QAEDA in business ventures or operations if they could.
Host friends have been Mujahadeen fighters in Afghanistan but
some friends may have no military experience. OOEH then provided
some names of people considered friends of AL QAEDA.

OOEH stated that an individual named/

Living in Kenya. is also an associate of \


I lused to live in Sudan and work with BIN LADIN. As a
friend of AL QAEDA, L^J could be used for a variety of things
from being involved in social help, humanitarian relief, NGO's to
"'9/11 Law Enforcement Privacy
intelligence gathering on related targets./"

n
ro
o
Another AL QAEDA friend is I Ifrom the Pokstan ...-• i
area by Mombasa. He is a Kenyan national born' in Uganda. He is
<*
CJ
likely a friend of AL QAEDA based on his Afghan experience. ODEH . I
<M
was with him during the last Week of July to buy a cassette
tape of songs without music on Bashara Street in Mombasa.- r ~^
is also a friend of I 1 ODEH once triedLto talk to j^
§
about his experiences in Afghanistan but! ~l stated he
forgot everything. OOEH described I las a very nervous to
person who could only be used for very limited roles..

ODEH stated that he last saw two years ago but


Uorking Copy Page 19 in
o
o
]had asked about him while at the Hilltop Hotel the night o
they discussed Majalla magazine. ODEH doubted that I I o
o
would be used to carry out such an action. I IMould not o
agree Kith hitting a target in Kenya because he likes Kenya and o
wouldn't want to be associated with.jAL QAEDA and bring troubte to
himself. I I was cautious and really didn't like to be around ..
AL OAEDA.

ODEH referred to an individual named I L.


an Oman! from Tanzania, i msed to come to Mombasa--and was a
friend ofl ~1 An. individual named | [from Tanzania
is also a friend of AL QAEDA. T"7"' ... V
traveled to Somalia and Afghanistan, and spends a lot of time in
Kenya. ODEH recalled someone who came to visltl "}
named CH3 an Egypt <an.. from., theUnited States. OOEH also saw
I I in Afghanistan and thatr t was in- charge of facilitatinn,
travel. He was once jailed in Peshawar but was taken out of jail 9/11 Law Enforcement Privacy
by an American. ODEH last saw! I in Mombasai two"and a half
years ago. '

ODEH stated that was., in Bar es Salaam because


OOEH was calling him there was working with] |-fh
his business. ODEH indicated that tad relocated t;o Bar
es Salaam since March/April 1998 to do his)
with I "I would travel there frequently-by bus from
^^^^^A
Mombasa. \H letl
^*^^^^ I use his^^^^™"™"^
car.
--"
was good friends with and would visit him in Car es
Salaam.
\: M
OOEH stated that the last time he was in Somalia
(August 1997), he was with / ..-••'' Also o
there was J_ .. loDEH i
stated that me to work in the fishing business with two
men. JSnd another. I (stated that he would use
the fishing business as a cover to support AL QAEDA.

ODEH stated that|_ Jcould have traveled to
Nairobi to build the bomb used there after building the Dar es
8
Salaam bomb. ODEH believes the explosives were obtained in one CO
place in Tanzania because it would be difficult to get explosives
in Kenya. I I told OOEH about two and a half years ago that it
is easy to get explosives in Tanzania in the Harosha area. At
CM
Working Copy Page 20 m
o
that time, |___|brought OOEH a small sample of TNT and an o
o
electric detonator to ask OOEH to evaluate. I Istated that o
there was too much TNT available in Tanzania. The THf sample was o
o
pale/green with no wrapper. 'OOEH stated that the best TMT is o
yellow. OOEH stated that if I I located a source of
explosives, that information would be important for BIN LAOIN and
AL QAEDA to know in case they needed explosives in the.future.
Such information would be reported back up the chain of,'camnand
in Afghanistan. |__| traveled to Afghanistan one year later.
He also tried to go to London but-was sent back to Kenya. OOEH
recalled that | [was called by| prom; either Sudan or
Afghanistan.

OOEH indicated that I Intent ioned to him in recent


meetings that he I I was -in contact with I """^find that
they were going to change the line. OOEH could riot define vhat
that meant. He assumed he meant a telephone line.
,1 I!
,.••' 9/11 Law Enforcement Privacy
OOEH stated that if someone were to build a bomb, it
would be okay to buiId the bomb long in advance. I 1: I I

m1
9/11 Law Enforcement Sensitive

J OOEH stated that for CM


the Oar es Salaam blast, all the preparation was done in. Tanzania i
because everything is available there. ODEH denied ever being in CM
Oar es Salaam or Tanzania but indicated thatl H-HP Egyptian
was in Oar es Salaam. O»

ODEH stated that the reason he was talking to CO


investigators about these matters was because those people were
pushing him and pushing him and then got away, while he is now
facing problems.
CO
Working Copy Page 21 in
o
o
o
OOEH stated that he knew the ABU U8AIOAH who died in o
the ferry boat accident. He was a different ABU UBA1DAH than the o
o
explosives trainer discussed earlier. ODEH last saw UBAIOAH when o
UBAIOAH came from Sudan to discuss and encourage OOEH to work
hard in the fish business that had been set up with the help of
L .OOEH reported that ABU UBAIDAH and |_ Jranked
equally as the two. top guys at AL QAEDA. ODEH met UBAIDAH in
Mombasa two times and described him as someone who conducted
himself in a "top secret" fashion.

OOEH indicated that he had known the individual


arrested in Thailand for the World Trade Center bombing. He was
very famous in the Hujahadeen and Jihad arena. His name was the
Afghani word for "lion." OOEH stated that he once heard several
years ago that BIN LAD IN stated that AL QAEDA would strike in
Thailand because this individual who was described as a "friend"
of AL QAEDA was arrested there.

OOEH stated that an individual. I t a..h.iah-ranking member in AL QAEDA, decided to cooperate, with the Saudi
Arabian authorities. This caused great concern to the point'
where there was talk of killing ABU FADEL because he was a spy
and forced AL QAEDA to change its operations. ODEH believes that
"'""' 9/11 Law Enforcement Privacy
BIN LADIN is no longer wealthy because his money was seized by
authori t i esI h ODER
indicated that BIN LADIN's bank accounts were held.irt-the names
of his friends and that I I knew all the details of these
arrangements. ...
w
ODEH remembered some additional information regarding
L J Since AL OAEDA people believed that I was <n
talking to the FBI. .1 3 who in turn.told OOEH, o
i
that I l<ias okav. After BIN LADIN transferred f.r.orti the 01
CM
Sudan to Afghanistan.[_ "| went to see BIN LA0IN. This i
occurred shortly before^ l.left""for .th* 'United States. OOEH CM
heard that one or two American officials and the Kenyan
authorities searched^ Jhouse in Nairobi more than one Oi
year ago and that the Americans took papers, a Macintosh computer
and a typewriter, OOEH was informed of this by| \. co
who was present inl I house when the search occurred.
I I traveled back to Afghanistan six months ago. was
born in Kenya of Yemeni .descent and lived in Mombasa.
Working Copy ----- Page 22 U)
o
o
o
OOEH was asked if he knewj_ OOEH o
stated that he had only heard of him. Regarding! o
o
OOEH stated that that is the name he used to callA OOEH o
did not knowL J

OOEH stated thatV


Jhouse when it was searched. /
Somalia used to come to Kenya.
business dealings with BIN LADI& in SudanTL
I lis AL QAEDA from Qatar.

ODEH stated tha'tf--...

I went
to look for UBAIDAH after he drowned in a ferry accident to
confirm his death.

OOEH gave) some material he


received fro Jof Somalia. is returning from
Afghanistan with a cassette tape of BIN LADIN's fatwa,OOEH gave '9/11 Law Enforcement Privacy
|^__Jthe tap*', ai letter'and some reports from the Saudi
opposition in London. This material was glvervtcrOOEH in Mombasa
to deliver it to I hareuod July 30. 1998. ODEH stated that
I Iwas still in Mombasa at the .time so he gave the reports and
tape back to

OOEH stated that|_ Jiiacl a car in Kenya.,wh1ch


was delivered from the Emirates. OOEH described the vehicle as a
Toyota double cab-pickup truck, white in color with a blue line.
OOEH vaguely recalled the plate number as KAG 488 plus one .
o
additional letter at the end .and"knows that it was registered to i
~~l :bDEH remembeps: this vehicle,, because ' en
N
was stored at his,.residence f.or & while. OOEH figures that l
CM
took possession of I , 'Icar even though he never saw .it with
I at the Hilltop Hotel. OOEH stated that | | Was supposed
to drive himself andI \to the airport on August 6, which
a
canceled. OOEH and\ took a taxi to the airport to get
the 10:00 p.m. PIA flight to Karachi. CO

OOEH stated that^^^ is a good typist, very clever


but jokes too much. He types reports for top AL QAEDA leaders in
in
Working Copy Page 23 in
o
o
Afghanistan such as| o
in turn brief BIN LAOIN. | may use the computers at\ o
o
print reports, then fax them to Pakistan. The reports are o
brought by courier to Afghanistan because there is no way to fax o
It there direct. OOEH has visited! J OOEH further indicated
that the reports prepared b y l [ a n d alsol | for AL QAEDA
were referred to as the\. ! .

registered in the name|_


of Yemeni descent but is-Kenyan and took care of the
cars

I He has a sharp nose, is normally clean shaven and looks


Somali. I I has explosives training. OOEH stated that if
| | »s-involved-; the bombrousthave tseen bxiiIt at his house in '9/11 Law Enforcement Privacy
Nairobi. Jgets financial support from
services of a Pakistani bank called Habib Bank
ank.l

I is not allowed to make overseas phone


calls on behalf of AL QAEDA, onlvl "Tis allowed. He..does,
however, have personal contact with Sudan and the Comoros. ODEH
remembered some of the code words! ~~|used in his reports:

9/11 Law Enforcement to


Sensitive
o
i
<f,
CM
CM
ODEH Indicated that |__|*tated he would be going to
O
the Comoros and.-if he couldn't get out,..-he would try to stay in
the Somali community in Nairobi to hide. ODEH indicated that
I mas capable of building the bomb that blew up the U.S. w
Embassy. When asked ifj J was better at explosives than ODEH,
ODEH stated that [__jwas not.
vo
Working Copy Page 24
in
o
o
On August 6, 1998, while at the Hilltop H o t e l . I I o
o
told OOEH that the people in Kandahar have already relocated in o
order to avoid retaliation from the Americans. OOEH asked I"" i o
what he meant, to whichl Treferred to the possibility of the
o
U.S. Navy sending in war planes or missiles to retaliate. OOEH
stated that he did not pursue or follow up on I "Tstatement.

OOEH stated t I gave him an"-...


identification card for th OOEH used this
card that gave him a title to show his wife's family that he was
employed. OOEH invitedP l-to the wedding and asked I it or
'•r'~\e use of his car. OOEH considered] ... I"

I drove OOEH and his wife home after the wedding...

OOEH was put in contact with I "lin 1.994 when he first


came to Kenya after Somalia. |__[had-been..jn..l<;enya since 19921
I Iws a personal IFvend of BlH..lADI.H..and acted, as an
advisor to the younger guys like ODEH,\H stated that I I must knowl |: "ool^ii trusted!"1:::
lP 9/11 Law Enforcement Sensitive
much and considered him a very close friend and a good Muslim,
OOEH was shown a picture of himself taken while in custody. ODEtt
was asked if| iwould recognize the picture as that of ODEH.
OOEH responded that of course^^^would recognize the picture^::--

ODEH stated that an individual.namedf" Ivias an....--


Egyptian from America, i reave 'training in Afghanistan on
matters such as avoiding capture and countering interrogation.

o HE described I las strong looking, tough, with a shorV beard..

OOEH stated that talked about an individual named o


n

i
o>
CM
CM
ODEH mentioned a person namtidr j whichmeans/^ |.-
in the Afghan language. I I had his own group-in Jalalabad O»
and is close to BIN LADIM. BIN LADIN announced that he would 8
take revenge for the U.S. incarceration of.!'' T'' OOEH w i
indicated that he has never metf

ODEH stated that he took an advanced 40-day explosives


ai
course at the Seddiq Camp in Afghanistan. This camp was lead by
Working Copy Page 25 o
o
o
an Egyptian, and AL QAEDA member. OOEH used to
practice making explosives and read military manuals from o
o
different countries. OOEH.,again spoke of the use of detonators. o
o
J OOEH stated that the amount of explosives that '9/11 Law Enforcement
would be needed to attack the U.S. Embassies in Nairobi and Dar Sensitive
es Salaam could not be determined without looking at the Embassy
building but that the height of the building would not matter ..
much because if the first floor were taken out, the rest of the
building would come down. OOEH further stated that it would take
at least 600-700 kilos of TNT. OOEH stated that TNT is a safe
explosive to handle; it can be set on fire and struck with a
hammer without exploding. TNT can be stored safely without a
detonator, as compared to dynamite, which deteriorates. OOEH
also stated that|
V
OOEH explained that for a charge large enough to attack
Law Enforcement Privacy
the U.S. Embassies, shaping of the TNT would not be necessary.
OOEH also talked about various detonators such as mechanical and
electrical. He also has no knowledge of anyone testing ....
explosives outside of Afghanistan or Somalia. ....

OOEH stated that) was in Somalia and headed by an


individual named| and another n»renn_.
the manager.

OOEH stated that he test sawj^ ~ [jn late 199? at the


3-'"'n Afghanistan. In the camp! | was knowVi as ABU «
L L an Egyptian, was well trained and proficient in
martial arts. on
o
i
OOEH was angry and disappointed at the performance of
the AL QAEDA cell leader I I OOEH stated that if they CM
couldn't get the pick-up truck into the garage of the embassy,
then the occupants of the truck must die trying. They should not
have left the truck there to explode and kill so many people.
OOEH stated that nobody, even BIN LADIN himself, could be happy
with the results of the bombing. OOEH stated that the operation
conducted against Khobar was 100 times better than Nairobi.

OOEH further stated that the position of the pick-up


•j,- •••?:• oo
Working Copy Page 26 |£J
O
O
was a mistake ,'v.:: • ' , o
f i;i' §o
•v*: !;!
/ ODEH stated that
he accepts responsibility for the bomb because he is part of the 9/11 Law Enforcement Sensitive
8EX:' ;/!
group and it was a big mistake and SALEH blundered. ODEH again
stated that the|

ODEH stated thatl ~


of AL QAEDA. His real name is]

9/11 Law Enforcement Privacy'


llv "

SALEH went to Afghanistan about eight years ago and joins AL _...-••"
QAEDA. He received training and relocated to BIN LADIK's
headquarters in Khartoum. In 1993, he went to Somalia at BIN
LADIN's request and winded up in Mogadishu. He returned to Sudan,
for a time and then went to Afghanistan-and was then sent to
Kenya approximately ten months ago. While in Khartoum, he was Cn
o involved in obtaining counterfeit rubber stamps for passport type
fraud. He is close to BIN LADIN and would arrange travel for
people. I lhas been to Tanzania and his .family remains in o
n

Afghanistan. ,• . • i
en
csj
OOEH stated that I 1 has lived in Mombasa at leas.t CM
six months. In March of 1998, ODEH cat'LedP" \from his
home in Witu for business. AHMED stated that [ I was here and, 0«
that ODEH should come to see I I ODEH agreed but met I
_Jhouse in Marindi. This meeting was
about going back to Afghanistan to live for cultural and CO
religious reasons. Three months later, ' '«•«
tell ODEH to emphasize the move to Afghanistan. ODEH was told to
get documents in order to travel. ODEH resisted because he
Working Copy Page 27 in
o
o
wished to remain in Kenya and had trouble getting good documents. o
o
About 40 days before the travel date (August 6, 1998).! Tgave o
OOEH a message in I I to hurry up and get documents. o
for travel, even if they are fake. OOEH stated that all AL QAEDA o
members had recently been summoned to Afghanistan but that there
was a member in London whose last name was I I
ODEH indicated that I I is associated with an organization .
whose name he pronounced in Arabic which included the words
"~~^~~~~~^^~^^~I -. goEd took 2Q ,jays..to close his furniture
business in Witu and move his *tife and chiltf to I
\n Mombasa. Around July 15, 1998, in Mombasa, ODEH
saw\ and'they calmly discuss ways of "getting travel ...
documents. I I was ri&t Bortravino this as an emergency
situation. Two or three daVs later.1 ""Itold ODEH that he
expected to leave Kenya very soon. On o> about Ju\ 25, 1998,
ODEH gave|___.l • letter from! ~1 of Somalia, who was

L
other top people to)
n
returning from Afghanistan, this letter was from BIN 1AOIN and
| the letter was addressed
refers to "the state of Allah.
read the letter in front of ODEH and commented that this was
nothing new. "iihti

i i;|l "'9/ll Law Enforcement Privacy


The next scheduled meeting withl I didn't occur
because they migsed..each, other. They next meet on August 1, in
Mombasa. I [stated thatl \was traveling that de»y..«nd
P""" ^^^"^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^•^^B^—..
that \s looking for ODEH. I T was excited and ordered
ODEH to travel. OOEH told I 1 he couldn't travel without
documents. \d he would get OOEH a passport and for OQEH
to get a photo. 1 I told ODEH..to-g6^ findT ^fce.ca'yse he
had the money OOEH would need for travel, nncu.«rii I »^rf
00
received $400. out of $1000 avai lable. ..OOEH inadearrangefwnjs for o
I I to come to his brother-inrlaW's at 6:30. I Isaid I
there is an emergency situation that is goirtgi. to occur.. At 9:QO- ..
p.m., ODEH metf"~~j a\.ong withT j ODEH talked to/ ... \ CM
alone nnd\ that there was an emer.gerx:y and..everyone . rH
must travel. He gaves OOEH the passport that is expired. OOEH CX
gave $400 to I I and returned the passport back. I Iwi11
get the entry visa to Kenya and update the passport. This was
the last time he saul Ifn Mombasa.
to
OOEH next saw on August 4, at the Hilltop Hotel.
ODEH had received his passport back fromQ Jgave OOEH
Working Copy Page 28 O
10
O
pants, shaver and socks. OOEH fell asleep in I [room. OOEH O
stated that I Iwas doing a prayer that indicated he was. afraid O
O
and worried. They were also looking at the magazine article O
about the wanted Egyptian brothers. . O
O
On August 5th, OOEH sawf [eating
breakfast at 7:30 a.m. i"\" 1 at the hotel. I OOEH to wait
Ttold
\return later with
They took lunch at the hotel. |_
were out all night and returned to the HU.ltop on the morning of
August 6th. OOEH thinks that | | house all
night. Upon their return.) .| Iwas happy.I luas noriiiat and
they were wearing the same1clothes. Nobody said what they were
doing all night. [_ Jto help him with papers.
OOEH concluded at time of interview that the boot was built at

n house. He assumes that it could have been built by I


ndl l-whiy:were::?h::>ft4Pobi:::for::soBie::tifl>e. OOEH stated
that at the time he didn't think something was going to happen in
Kenya because he is not being consulted or informed.
I

9/11 Law Enforcement Privacy

OOEH described!

believes thatj had been in Nairobi, Kenya, for three


months. OOEH first met[ | in the beginning, of"V992 in
Afghanistan at an explosives course. This course was 40 days in
duration and was advanced, and[ ..--••' Itiae the instructor at-
the I_^^^_^_ •He--tau^t--t^e-%i»uriS'e'*th''nTnesl'''siPe:fj^Eie^''9nd''hou '9/11 Law Enforcement
CO
to set charges for TNT and C-4. I Itauoht this course Sensitive
with | | "After the course, OOEH left the "camp and went en
to Somalia. OOEH later met! I in .Somalia in the town o
of Horihan in 1993. rat the time was ordered to
Somalia and was on his way to Mogadishu but was in Horihan for CM
approximately one week. OOEH further stated that I 1
could have traveled to Oar es Salaam to construct the bomb before H
he sawi Hri Nairobi during the first week of August.

When asked about Dar es Salaam, OOEH denied ever being


saen
there or in Tanzania. OOEH stated that when he went to Somalia
in late 1997 he told his family and friends that he went to Dar 3
es Salaam to conceal his movements. In addition, ODEH stated
•• Working Copy VO
Page 29 O
O
that M0ar es Salaam" means Muslim land and that is how he thought o
o
of Somalia. o
o
The next time OOEH sawL Jwas at the Hilltop
o
Hotel in Nairobi, Kenya. OOEH was on his way to room and
thought it was' \When OOEH walked into the room, he
saw that it wa | knew that ODEtt. was .
around but ODEH didn't know that\) I ODEHh stated
Twas in the
thatgroup
they were happy to see .each other.

J kriow..each other longer than OOEH knows


them both. ODEH indicated I-*« a member of AL
QAEDA and was with BIN LADIN in Sudan. ODEH met I I
later in the day for prayer and lunch and were later joined by
i«t about 4:00 p.m. OOEH stated that hdbody in
the group discussed the upcoming.emergency travel because it was
assumed that everybody knew i t was an emergency and that no
further questions were required. | """•--l.ieft the.
hotel while OOEH stayed behind with\d
I Idid not return to the hotel until the following day, August
5th. ODEH observed that I l:»as favi:hg::bmkfast :withf

a [ was hot p'resent. After breakfas


left the hotel. ODEH asked if there was anything he could
do, to which] [responded for him to stay in the hotel and
9/11 Law Enforcement Privacy
wait for\| ODEH stated that I I returned to
the hn»»l aft»r\ had already returned at
approximately 1:30 p.m. All four had lunch together .and
discussed normal everyday events until approxiliiately 4:3p.-p-:C,
when they all participated in afternoon prayers....- oOEH stated
that I I went to call I ..l-fh" Mombasa -to as4c where. n
he was and why he was late in getting to.Nairobi. ODEH reports
en
thati ~tstay out al.L nfght and return.the next day, o
August 6th, to the HilltopHbtel. OOEH remained at the hotel ot
with| [alone until approximately 9:30 p,m; They were M
looking at a magazine called Hajalla that had.pictures of twelve (M
people wanted by the Egyptian authorities- They thought that AL
QAEDA leader I Iwould be one of them. OOEH stated ttrtt he Ol
went to bed at approximately ?:30 p.m. and I I remained
in his room. The following morning at approximately 7:00 a.m.,,
10
ODEH saw I I and asked him about fTt>einQ out of .the
hotel all night. Then,.at approximately 8:30 a.m.,I land
' [arrived at the hotel from Mombasa.
Working Copy Page 30 3oo
OOEH stated that) I used to reside in Mombasa o
but could not stay there becausel coqld not resist o
o
the Arabic women in that town, so to fight temptation he o
relocated to Nairobi. OOEH stated that at about that time, o
andl ""Ireturned to the hotel and that now there were a total
of six people scheduled to travel that day to Afghanistan at the
hotel at about 9:30 a.iti...l~~ l-f rom Tanzania came to
meet them at the Hilltop to take, a bath because the water was not
working at their hotel, which was approximately 50 meters away on
the same block. OOEH andl 3went upstairs to his..room
to iron a shirt. At approximately 12:30 J
t started to get ready'for.
Ltraveling. acquired false documents from
I I gave 500 U.S. dollars to every person that would.be
traveling that day. I ~lstated that the cash was to bribe
officials in case they were stopped and for other miscellaneous
expenses. I jleft for
the airport at that time to catch a 3:00 p.m. Kenyan Air flight
to Karachi. -

OOEH describes| "'''9/11 Law Enforcement Privacy

lOOEH was at\e the day before he (OOEH)


traveled to Mairobi.\d at the H HI top Hotel on
August 6th and traveled with ODEH on Pakistani International «
Airway* flight to Karachi. I I made -Tt" through the checkpoint
and is currently in Afghanistan." fO
oI
ODEH stated that he used to see\ I since the beginning of 1996. OOtH stated that
o\J
04
not encourage ODEH to get to knoVi I ~ sajd;:tha rH

I
was In Afghanistan and had some information regarding ODEH,
...--' ' T*tated that I I knew that they. Here
a
in Afghanistan and knew the nicknames of OOEti.l [
I Ididn't like the fact that ^^^knew so much about them . 10
and thought that this could eventually lead to trouble.
received training in Afghanistan after trying ta get training in
the Sudan and Yemen. OOEH stated that| ]was a young person
m
10
Working Copy Page 31 o
o
searching for Jihad and even paid for his own travels, o
took an advanced explosives course that cost approximately 6,000 o
o
U.S. dollars while in Afghanistan. ODEH described this course as o
very comprehensive and that it was approximately 60 days in o
duration. After the course, I Icame back to Kenya. I I
came to OOEH's house to inquire about groing to Bosnia. OOEH told,
him that they have no people in Bosnia and that, he could not help
him. I I thought that ODEH could help him in this.matter
because his friendr* i stated that he f ^.coutd help,
but FAHAD was not able to fInd].... • ... \at the time. ODEtt .stated
that he didn't like the fact that 1 Vvould ask such questions,
without knowing him well. : ::":i "!

ODEH stated that he would occasionally seel Jin


Mombasa in the company of^^^^^J.....OO.E.H reported that in August
of 1996,L._3 approach&d him with a sample of TNT <3!!x3" square)
and a detonator. |__| stated, that "Ke acquired. .thei TNT in
Tanzania and asked ODEH for his opinion. OOEH stated that! I
was attempting to show that he was a Mujahadeen and that he was
committed to Jihad, i I actually had more training in
9/11 Law Enforcement Privacy
explosives than ODEH and probably was not looking for technical.
advice from OOEH. ODEH described I las very hot-blooded arid
extremely anxious to join a Jihad operation and see some action.
I I was disappointed that ODEH was not enthusiastic about his
sample of TNT. Some weeks later,] J brought an English book
on explosives for ODEH to see. F^........Fwanted to know if. .he could
use this book tojielp with Jihad and Hujahadeen. OOEli used to
the Has j id Ali in Mombasa- -with .--""
was in the trucking business, arid I lused to drive Y&r him. w
ODEH also observed/ I staying with an individual namgdf~ ..-.-.t:'.--'
• f . •I ...-"' ...;:••
(not the saroey I previously discussed), who was in th.e::cinder o
block business. ODEH stated that this latter |~~"|:ttent to i
Afghanistan three months ago and is a friend of AL QAEDA. OOEH
recalled that in the latter part of 1996.. I ' [went to
i
CM
Afghanistan to stay at a camp. CZZZ] stayed one month, while
( remained in Afghanistan for over one year and returned to ,. O«
Kenya in late 1997. OOEK stated that he s a w j t i n Mombasa in
December 1997. I to
W
acquire a passport is a member of AL QAEDA and was an
associate of

After OOEH relocated to the town of Witu, he had


•- Working Copy Page 32

contact with from Uitu in order to give a message to/


L ybecause ODEH could not contact him, ODEH stated
that the message was about owing him 2,000 shillings. ODEH
stated that the next time he saw Iwas on July 15, 1998, in
Mombasa. |__|came to,his brother-in-law?* house in Mombasa to
tell ODEH that if he ted to sgp I \. :^imH help. ODEH
went to look for the..previous day but .couttin/.t: find him
and left a message wi e, for|
in touch with OOEH. ODEH both went to seel
traveled to/ ] icar. When'ttiey-asrrived atj
location, I told to Walt, in the car and 'returned to tell
ODEH that I | said the area was too., busy and for Iviifrno.t
to come to see him a' moment. I jdjdh't want ODEH to be
seen by| ~| hous 'EH stated that I Tnow .seemed to bg
at a higher level wi ftfie ALQAEDA cell than ODEH. ODEH .!"
believed that I ~~l :ome close to I l-bccausgi "*l.u»e
in Afghanistan for a year. I l-oave a message fb'f"OOEH..to
the next t the...f.ootbaU court. obEH"si:ated-that
[then traveled t«?%ar es Salaam, Tanzania, two days later... *( * (
( ' '
and stayed there for one week. Upon/ | r'e'furn""to"Hciiitoasav 'i ':
1"^*^^^ ^^«J r^^^*~ i •- —..,».
I I gave a-letter to-OPEH from^7—rJ regarding -QOEtt going back
to Uitu. l l wanted 'to see COEH'before"Bb'EH" returned to Witu. 9/11 Law Enforcement Privac"y

ODEH stated that the next time he saw | lMasi;ofi;i;^;:


August 1, 1998, in the company of I l:::-OPgH::sfated that this
was the time wheni "'Iwas extremely excited and was yelliria at
him that he must prepare for emergency travel. OOEH-Stated ..that
he did not like being yelled at in front.-qf 1 ... Mater
contacted OOEH in Marindi by phone and tolcl.OOEH to come\back to
Mombasa to see I tbefore he traveled on to Nairobi. On August
2nd, ODEH traveled back to. Monfcasa to meet I I at a
bus stop but did flot meet them. On the following morning, August
3rd.I Tcame to ODEH's house with ODEH's passport and stated
that they must go to the immigration office to get a visa. OOEH
stated that after that day, the next time he saw I 1 was in
Nairobi. CX

ODEH stated ttiat(_ 10


resided in the town of Marindi and was originally from al

J OOEH has known AHMED since 1992, when


Uorking Copy
in
vo
Page 33
o
o
they met in training camp in Afghanistan. | o
o
o
I at the o
Camp. C^3.was .an instructor in the use of PKM machine guns. o
He is a member of AL QAEDA and made beyat a long time-before
ODEH. I__Jknows tlSAMArBIN tAt»N personalty. ODEH later savr
i i at i-ht» l~ "t.":ah"»re-:Beruas also an instructor, and Law Enforcement
then at the I t where tTw'as a student in explosives Sensitive
with OOEH. They were together in Somalia in the town, at Morihan.
OOEH stated that \never went to Mogadishu. AHMED also knows
and has met with I when he visited the camp in Somalia.
After Somalia, they both traveled to Kenya together and they.both
wanted to find women to marry. I I itiarripH nf tor tun::mnrifh-;
and then relocated to Khartoum, Sudan. CZH^as' working in
USAMA BIN LADIN's business in the field 6f agriculture, I' ' ' 1
was working with finances and selling agricultural products.
i i remained in the Sudan for one year and'caiiie 'to-ICenya in
early 1996 to tfie town of Marindi. .ODt-H Stated that he ran into
I tbv accident in Harindi-.t '.-- is'tarted a business of buying
and selling clothes and was- doing..okay. About 40 days prior to ,
OOEH travel ing.. I --" (came to see him in Witu to give a,.message , 9/11 Law Enforcement Privacy
from I It'b get ready for travel, even if ODEH has- to get fake
documents. I I has more authority than ODEH in AL QAEDA ' . - ,
because he is older. ODEH stated that the next time he'saw I ^
was on July 30 or 31 at| ,.-•' ..-• ..-• .,-' |
Mombasa. The message from I Iwas 'thatl jmusj: travel ,
before Sunday, August Znd. 1 A was told bvV''~-'^~l that if .he
didn't come by August Znd tliat he should not ..bother coning at
all. That was the last .time that. ODEH, iawf J left
Kenya on August 1st with! .-•' .-•' S
o
OOEH stated thitI ' towns the house that I I rented i
in Mombasa butj | actually lives in the town of Marindi. (A
CM
i i tnlri ODEH that .if he comes to Mombasa, he would put OOEH in
contact

OOEH stated that/"


of August uithj
10

J BAHAMAD is a friend of AL QAEDA who has spent


Working Copy Page 34 vo
o
time in Afghanistan with |_ Jjust took the basic o
o
courses in military instruction and then returned to Kenya. o
I 1uanted to go to Afghanistan to live because he felt that o
the religiousatmosphere there was better.A \owns a truck o
o
business and I T sometimes drives for him.\s hot
ordered to leave Kenya byf• "; lor AL QAEDA. \d to
leave because! \e good
friends with/ ]but i&:;pnly an
acquaintance ofL Kenyan paispor.t and
traveled on August 1st "ithl ltd ftfohanistanii: .

OOEH stated thatL J born in 9/11 Law Enforcement Sensitive


Egypt and is a member of AL QAEDA. Op.E.H..me.t-tvm-in T992 at the
OOEH stated thatj Twas not a student but
just came to visit people at the camp. go with OOEH
to Somalia and did not travel to Mogadishu. came to
Kenya before OOEH and got married before OOEH. is Law Enforcement Privacy
married to|

J went to the Sudan for approximately six months^4n"


early 1995 to work for USAHA BIN LADIN. intended to
relocate there but changed his mind and returned to Mombasa,
where he opened °^ - ;
|studied English and computer science and tried to help
OOEH in the fish business. OOEH stated that I ItJos in.Oar ...
es Salaam, Tanzania, for approximately one and a half months;"
before traveling on August 1st. OOEH stated that I . I is in.,
the import/export business and that I ""Itielps him by ,..-•''

O transporting merchandise from Tanzania to Kenya. I


use any private trucks from\. "Ifor this venture but
hdid not ... 03

used public transportation only.y L-eturned to Mombasa m


only one or two days before traveling with I .-•'' \to , oi
Afghanistan. I ihas basic explosives training but is well en
trained in other matters, including topography. <M
i
csi
OOEH described!
TanMnian. OOEH first saw) Jin Hombasa with]
approximately one year before in 1997. I l,introducedr~~l as
a good person who wag helping him in his business/ \s a (0
contact number for! I while/ [was working in Tanzania.
/ /met through I I from Tanzania is
considered a friend of AL QAEDA. The second time ODEH met)
Working Copy Page 35 VD
O
o
is at the Hilltop Hotel. OOEH stated that he was surprised to O
see him at the Hilltop. SALEH knew that I "l^as traveling with o
o
the group. OOEH didn't know if I I had received any training o
in Afghanistan. I I arrived at the Hilltop Hotel on the 6th .of o
August and left that day. OOEH stated,, that he did not have much
interaction with[

OOEH later stated that in regards to what he totd-.the


Pakistani authorities, he had fabricated his involvement in the
bomb plot to make the Pakistanis happy. OOEH further stated that
the Pakistanis did not use any physical force against him but did
state that he was not given sufficient sleep and that he was in 9/11 Law Enforcement Privacy
the glare of bright lights.

On Thursday, August 27, 1998, at 4:00 p.m., while on


board United States Air Force aircraft (C-ir>, the following
occurred:

OOEH was given his Advice of Rights in bo.tJi English and


Arabic. He acknowledged that he understood his rights and was
willing to answer questions. He was told that if he started to
answer questions, he may stop at any time. ODEH was shown a
picture of I I 'ODEH studied the picture carefully. ODEH
stated that the picture was not familiar to him and that he might
look more familiar if he had a heavier beard. ODEH and
investigating agent used a black magic marker to fill in the
subject's goatee to make a heavier beard. Upon completion, OOEH
still indicated that he did not recognize the individual. ODEH
was never told the name of the individual or where he w^s from,
and was asked if he ever saw him in Afghanistan or any other
country that he may have visited. OOEH responded that he had
never seen the individual in the picture. The interview was
concluded at 4:10 p.m. CM

<y
CO