Excerpts from Interviews re: the Shoot-down order Arnold-3 S [roughly 55 minutes to 1 hour in

Commission staff reviews with Arnold the first appearance of the Region Commander shoot down order at NEADS (Major Ovens - "We need to read this...")- Arnold recalls: "My memory of that is we're still thinking United 93, I believe, at this time...is this well beyond that as far as you know?" "Sir this is at 10:32," says Kevin Shaeffer. "Good Lord. 10:32. Hm. He went down at 10:03 huh? Well, I recall, here's what I recall, whether it's right or wrong, it's just what I recall: We were thinking of United 93 at this particular point in time and as we're sitting there watching D.C. and we get a call that the United 93 is their initial plot was conning, and the initial thought was we would go and intercept that aircraft. We talked about it we said well at 50 miles or 100 miles we'll go intercept him...we will try and intercept him, try and deviate, see if we can get his attention, and if doesn't then we will either seek authorities or we will shoot him down. And I talked to Bob Marr about that...and now also talking to NORAD as I recall about a course of action here. To my knowledge during this time frame or sometime after I do recall somebody telling me that we had authority to shoot down aircraft after United 93 was confirmed down. That's when I remember it coming. If it came that late that's surprising to me but time was pretty much a blur at that particular moment....when we were talking about shooting down 93 I didn't have any clearance from any authority other than outside the military chain. But I do recall a Presidential, whether Vice President or President I don't know who...I assumed it was the Vice President because we had the President in Sarasota." Kevin Shaeffer asks him if he was sure that at this time they knew of a UAL 93 by name. Arnold responds, "We knew there was a Delta flight in there, course we didn't know where he was going and that was part of the confusion...! recall us being concerned about United 93 when we talk about shoot down authority 'cause it's the only one where we have it."

Marr-7 S [41 minutes in]:
"The call that came to me was we will take lives in the air to save lives on the ground."

Marr-8 S [20 minutes in]:
Commission staff reviews with Marr the various chat logs that are maintained within the NORAD system, and how they word the initial Regional Commander shoot down order. Marr explains that on the chat system, to his

knowledge, an entry can be cut and pasted. This is how such an order would be passed "on several different chats at the same time." Commission staff questions Marr if he heard of the shoot down order first over the chats, and Marr responds: "The first that I recall hearing about that is over the red switch from General Arnold, which was the call I told you about earlier that I can't give you a specific time...urn...and generally I wouldn't be surprised in a normal situation that he would give me a heads up that something is in fact coming that is along those lines." Marr continues by discussing what he would do with such an order: "If there's a circumstance where I'm afraid that it might be misunderstood when I'm going to tell somebody that we're going to have kill authority you don't want to use those words because someone might only hear 'kill.' So I can't tell you exactly how it worked in that circumstance - exactly when I told the floor...! did tell the Battle Cab as I was on the red switch, or immediately after, but I can not tell you exactly when and how I passed that to the floor."

Fox [31:15 minutes on]
Kevin Shaeffer relates to Fox that Sgt. Beluschio recalled receiving clearance to kill a track that was identified as UAL 93. Fox replied "I do not recall ever passing that. At one point as the fighters were approaching Washington I received direct guidance from Col Nasypany to pass to the fighters to be prepared to do that if necessary if the situation arose. This being at a point that we had no specific target, we were just prosecuting, we were just getting them up to Washington...! do not recall ever passing an order to kill anything...Colonel Nasypany told me just to pass to the pilots to be prepared to shoot down anything that might pose a threat - any further targets that might come in that might pose a threat to any assets that we were protecting. At which point I went directly to my controller and just told them 'pass to the pilots to be prepared to' - I don't remember the exact verbiage we used, shoot-down or engage - 'any targets that might pose a threat to anything we're protecting. I remember telling them 'we don't have any targets at this time, just get them [them pilots] in the frame of mind that they're prepared to do that...I don't recall the exact timing on that." Fox stated that he does not recall any of the details of changing ROE or DEFCON.

Otis Duffy-1 [41-44 minutes in]
After listening to this exchange I seriously doubt NEADS WD passed a shoot down order to PANTA flight. Duffy explains that he believed on 9/11 the President was the only person who could pass an order to shoot down a civilian aircraft. He explains that they had no mission passed beyond ID, type and tail, and discussed how both TRACON and NEADS was "snapping" them to ID targets in the CAP. He then discussed receiving orders and authenticated Transition ROE. He explains that Transition ROE communicates "a heightened state" and "gives a little bit more freedom if I'm being fired upon."

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