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THOMAS WOLFF, Ph. D. February 6, 2009 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT EASTERN DISTRICT OF LOUISIANA

THOMAS WOLFF, Ph. D.

February 6, 2009

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT EASTERN DISTRICT OF LOUISIANA

IN RE: KATRINA CANAL BREACHES CONSOLIDATED LITIGATION

CIVIL ACTION NO. 05-4182 K2 JUDGE DUVAL

PERTAINS TO: MRGO AND ROBINSON (No. 06-2268)

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Deposition of THOMAS F. WOLFF, PH.D., P.E., given at the offices of the United States Department of Justice, 400 Poydras Street, 9th Floor, New Orleans, Louisiana 70130, on February 6th, 2009.

REPORTED BY:

JOSEPH A. FAIRBANKS, JR., CCR, RPR CERTIFIED COURT REPORTER #75005

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS

800 562-1285

THOMAS WOLFF, Ph. D. February 6, 2009   Page 2   Page 4   1

THOMAS WOLFF, Ph. D.

February 6, 2009

 

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1 REPRESENTING THE PLAINTIFFS:

1

E X A M I N A T I O N

I N D E X

2 ELWOOD C. STEVENS, JR., APLC

2

3 (BY: ELWOOD C. STEVENS, JR., ESQUIRE)

3

EXAMINATION BY:

PAGE

4 1205 Victor II Boulevard

4

5 Morgan City, Louisiana 70380

5

MR. STEVENS

 

6

6 985-384-8611

6

E X H I B I T

I N D E X

7 - AND -

7

8 ANDRY LAW FIRM

8

EXHIBIT NO.

 

PAGE

9 (BY: KEA SHERMAN, ESQUIRE)

9

Exhibit 1

7

10

610 Baronne Street

10

Exhibit 2

11

11

New Orleans, Louisiana 70113

11

Exhibit 3

52

12

504-586-8899

12

Exhibit 4

142

13

- AND -

13

Exhibit 5

162

14

DEGRAVELLES, PALMINTIER, HOLTHAUS &

14

Exhibit 6

187

15

FRUGE, L.L.P.

15

Exhibit 7

220

16

(BY: MICHAEL C. PALMINTIER, ESQUIRE)

16

Exhibit 8

253

17

618 Main Street

17

Exhibit 9

259

18

Baton Rouge, Louisiana 70801-1910

18

R E Q U E S T S

F O R

I N F O

I N D E X

19

225-344-3735

19

20

20

NO.

PAGE

21

21

Request for Infomation 1

81

22

22

23

23

24

24

25

25

 

Page 3

 

Page 5

 

1

REPRESENTING THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA:

1

S T I P U L A T I O N

2

UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE,

2

IT IS STIPULATED AND AGREED by and

3

TORTS BRANCH, CIVIL DIVISION

3

among counsel for the parties hereto that the

4

(BY: RICHARD STONE, ESQUIRE)

4

deposition of the aforementioned witness may be

5

(BY: DAN BAEZA, ESQUIRE)

5

taken for all purposes permitted within the

6

P.O. Box 888

6

Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, in accordance

7

Benjamin Franklin Station

7

with law, pursuant to notice;

 

8

Washington, D.C. 20044

8

That all formalities, save reading

9

202-616-4289

9

and signing of the original transcript by the

10

10

deponent, are hereby specifically waived;

11

ALSO PRESENT:

11

That all objections, save those as to

12

DAVID DYER, ESQ.

12

the form of the question and the responsiveness

13

ANDREW CAPITELLI, ESQ.

13

of the answer, are reserved until such time as

14

14

this deposition, or any part thereof, is used

15

PARTICIPATING VIA I-DEP:

15

or sought to be used in evidence.

16

ROBIN SMITH, ESQ.

16

17

RICHARD PAVLICK, ESQ.

17

18

ELWOOD STEVENS, ESQ.

18

*

*

*

19

NICK DIETZEN, ESQ.

19

20

20

21

VIDEOGRAPHER:

21

22

TODD MEAUX (DEPO-VUE)

22

JOSEPH A. FAIRBANKS, JR., CCR, RPR,

23

23

Certified Court Reporter in and for the State

24

24

of Louisiana, officiated in administering the

25

25

oath to the witness.

 

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS

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THOMAS WOLFF, Ph. D. February 6, 2009   Page 6   Page 8   1

THOMAS WOLFF, Ph. D.

February 6, 2009

 

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1

THOMAS F. WOLFF, PH.D., P.E.,

1

fact produced any of the items listed?

2

2595 Robin's Way, Okemos, Michigan 48864, a

2

A.

I did not specific to Exhibit A.

3

witness named in the above stipulation, having

3

Q.

Okay. Now, I was handed when we

4

been first duly sworn, was examined and

 

4

walked in a CD. I don't know, is this a CD or

5

testified on his oath as follows:

5

a -- no, it's a CD, not a DVD, which is labeled

6

EXAMINATION BY MR. STEVENS:

6

Wolff Expert Report Reliance Materials and

7

Q.

Good morning, Dr. Wolff. As I

7

Publicly Available Documents.

8

introduced myself, I'm Elwood Stevens. I'll

 

8

Did you assist in any way in preparing

9

ask you questions today. If I ask anything you

9

this CD?

10

don't understand because lawyers and engineers

10

A.

Not that physical CD, no.

11

kind of don't speak the same language

 

11

Q.

Okay.

12

sometimes, I'm not precise enough, stop me and

12

A.

It's my understanding that the

13

we'll back up and start over. I'll warn you

 

13

Department of Justice attorneys compiled the

14

that I'm from Opelousas and I have sort of a

14

reliance materials that I had used and

15

long-winded way of asking questions. Make sure

15

furnished them and made that CD from that --

16

I finish my question before you begin your

 

16

MR. STONE:

17

answer. It will make the transcript read

17

Can I short cut this a bit for

18

better and you'll be answering a full question.

18

you? The thing that you won't have

19

Because Joe here is going to report it in it in

 

19

here is any communications between us

20

the same order that it's spoken.

20

and Dr. Wolff or any of his draft

21

 

Try to avoid nodding your head. Even

21

reports. Those are things that have

22

though we're on video, if Joe's is not looking

 

22

not been produced by anyone in the

23

at you he may miss your response. And he'll

23

litigation. And under the case

24

stop us if we're talking over each over. Or if

24

management order they're not required

25

you're giving non verbal responses, he'll ask

25

to be produced. So you have all those

 

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Page 9

 

1

you, did mean yes or no? So you might as well

1

reliance materials in advance and on

2

say it in the first place. Otherwise, I'll try

 

2

that disk.

3

not to take up too much of your time, but I do

3

EXAMINATION BY MR. STEVENS:

4

have a good bit of ground to cover. Your

 

4

Q.

All right. So we did get some

5

report seems to cover a lot of different areas.

5

reliance materials, I have those in a stack

6

So let's start with attaching a copy

6

here, but I didn't have this CD, per se. I

7

of the notice at Exhibit 1. I'll hand you a

 

7

guess it will just take a few minutes, let's

8

copy of Amended Notice of Deposition and ask

8

walk through. You will recall what you

9

you, sir, have you seen that before I handed it

9

provided to counsel to provide to us.

10

to you?

10

A.

Yes.

11

 

(Exhibit 1 was marked for

11

Q.

Is your engagement letter included in

12

identification and is attached hereto.)

 

12

the reliance materials?

13

A.

I saw this just a few minutes ago.

13

A.

I have a standard federal contract.

14

EXAMINATION BY MR. STEVENS:

 

14

Q.

Okay.

15

Q.

Attached to the Amended Notice of

15

A.

I don't know if it's on that CD.

16

Deposition is, on the third and fourth page,

 

16

Q.

I didn't see it in the materials that

17

called Exhibit A. Exhibit A lists sixteen

17

I reviewed and I don't see it listed on the

18

items, or categories of documents and things,

18

index that we printed out of the CD.

19

that you were called upon to produce. Have you

19

MR. STONE:

20

seen that Exhibit A before now?

 

20

And I'm sure we have not provided

21

A.

Just a few minutes before the

21

it, but if you need that for something

22

deposition.

 

22

I'll go back and see if we're allowed

23

Q.

So I trust that before appearing here

23

to provide that.

24

today you didn't make any record search or file

24

MR. STEVENS:

25

review to determine whether or not you had in

25

Okay.

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS

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THOMAS WOLFF, Ph. D. February 6, 2009   Page 10   Page 12   1

THOMAS WOLFF, Ph. D.

February 6, 2009

 

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Page 12

 

1

MR. STONE:

1

Q.

Okay. And when did you first complete

2

But just let me know.

2

the report? I know the final final is in

3

MR. STEVENS:

3

December --

4

We asked for it, so I guess I'll

4

A.

We worked on that report -- I worked

5

say yes, we would like it.

5

on that report and, um -- all the way up to

6

MR. STONE:

6

within few days of that date.

7

That's a bit different than what

7

Q.

Okay. I'm just looking through your

8

you asked for, but --

8

invoice here. And your hourly rate, Dr. Wolff,

9

MR. STEVENS:

9

how much did you charge per hour on this

10

 

A copy of the engagement letter?

10

project?

11

MR. STONE:

11

A.

$200 per hour.

12

Right. He doesn't have an

12

Q.

Have you been asked to do any

13

engagement letter, it's a contract.

13

additional work beyond preparing for this

14

But we're not playing games.

14

deposition, issuing this report that we've

15

MR. STEVENS:

15

identified as December 18th, 2008, and

16

I understand.

16

preparing for this deposition? Have you been

17

MR. STONE:

17

asked to do any future work?

18

Let me see if I can get that for

18

A.

Not officially at this time. I

19

you.

19

understand that plaintiffs' expert submitted

20

EXAMINATION BY MR. STEVENS:

20

some reports late last week and that there may

21

Q.

So you had a standard government

21

be some additional work for me to do in that

22

contract.

22

regard, but that has not been formalized or

23

 

How long have you had a contract with

23

finalized.

24

the -- is it the DOJ or is it the Army Corps of

24

Q.

And do you know what the scope of that

25

Engineers?

25

work is, or the nature?

 

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Page 13

 

1

A.

It's the DOJ.

1

A.

I have downloaded his reports, I have

2

Q.

Okay.

2

looked at the table of contents to get the -- a

3

A.

I did bring invoices.

3

sense of the nature of those reports. In this

4

Q.

Okay.

4

short time frame I've not had the opportunity

5

A.

It appears that my first conversations

5

to read those reports.

6

with them were 1/30/08. And as I recall the

6

Q.

And the report is from whom?

7

contract was in that time frame, early 2008.

7

A.

Dr. Bea.

8

Q.

Okay. And since January 30th of '08,

8

MR. STONE:

9

how many hours have you billed?

9

That's the January 29 report.

10

A.

164.2.

10

EXAMINATION BY MR. STEVENS:

11

Q.

Okay. And is that a copy we can

11

Q.

Number 4 asks for preliminary drafts

12

attach?

12

of your expert report. Did you have

13

A.

Yes.

13

preliminary drafts of your December 18 report?

14

Q.

Thank you. We'll mark this as Wolff

14

A.

Yes.

15

Number 2.

15

Q.

And when was your first draft prepared

16

 

(Exhibit 2 was marked for

16

or circulated?

17

identification and is attached hereto.)

17

A.

Probably in the spring or summer of

18

EXAMINATION BY MR. STEVENS:

18

2008.

19

Q.

I have a copy of a report that you

19

Q.

Okay.

20

issued in this case dated December 18th of

20

A.

It may be reflected in those invoices.

21

2008.

21

It may or may not be.

22

A.

Yes.

22

Q.

I don't see anything that says draft

23

Q.

Is this the only report that you've

23

report or circulate draft here.

24

generated in connection with this litigation?

24

A.

I think you will only see wrote draft

25

A.

Yes.

25

report or edited draft report.

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS

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THOMAS WOLFF, Ph. D. February 6, 2009   Page 14   Page 16   1

THOMAS WOLFF, Ph. D.

February 6, 2009

 

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1

Q.

And did you circulate the draft to the

1

the reference section of your report that you

2

attorneys?

2

relied upon for your opinions in this case?

3

A.

I furnished the draft to the

3

A.

Not that I recall.

4

Department of Justice.

4

Q.

Okay. And just so we're on the same

5

Q.

Did you furnish it to any other

5

page, you have a copy of your report here?

6

defense experts?

6

A.

Yes.

7

A.

No.

7

Q.

The references are listed from

8

Q.

Okay. I like your invoice for

8

pages -- on Pages 51, 52 and 53; correct?

9

August 5th, it says, ditto, two hours. I like

9

A.

Yes.

10

that. I know it refers to what you did the day

10

Q.

Okay. I'll come back to that in a

11

before, but that's the first invoice I see

11

bit, but I just wanted to confirm that those

12

somebody could bill two hundred bucks an hour

12

are -- the four corners of those three pages

13

for ditto. I like that. I'll borrow it if you

13

contains the universe of references that you

14

don't mind.

14

rely upon for your opinions in this case.

15

Which reminds me to ask you, in

15

A.

Yes.

16

connection with your report, did you have

16

Q.

All right. I didn't see any

17

direct consults or communications with any

17

photographs listed. You don't rely upon any

18

other defense experts?

18

photographs?

19

A.

There was a period of time where there

19

A.

I have relied on photographs that are

20

were some routine conference calls among the

20

in these various references.

21

experts and the Department of Justice,

21

Q.

Okay. To the extent that you relied

22

generally in the fall of 2008.

22

on photographs, they're in those reports or

23

Q.

And can you tell me who those experts

23

documents that you list as references.

24

were?

24

A.

Yes.

25

A.

Not specifically because various

25

Q.

But separate and apart from those, you

 

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1

people were on at various times. Dr. Mosher

1

haven't done any review of other photographs.

2

was on at various times, Mr. Baeza, Mr. Stone,

2

A.

Not for this case.

3

I'm certain Mr. Ebersole was on there, and then

3

Q.

Okay. And when I say photographs, I'm

4

at various times there may have been other

4

talking about photographs of the New Orleans

5

parties on there.

5

levee system --

6

Q.

What about Mr. Britsch, Mr. Barras,

6

A.

Let me -- permit me to clarify.

7

did you ever consult with them?

7

Q.

Yeah.

8

A.

I could not say for certain, no.

8

A.

My report will show that I was a

9

Q.

Dr. Resio?

9

member of the American Society of Civil

10

A.

What I remember better is that the

10

Engineers team in New Orleans in October, 2005.

11

subject matter was mostly around hydraulic

11

Q.

Okay.

12

models, so I would expect that the experts

12

A.

I took photographs during that time.

13

around modeling would have been --

13

Q.

Okay.

14

Q.

Did you consult with Steven

14

A.

I did not use any of those specific

15

Fitzgerald?

15

photographs, nor did I have anything in those

16

A.

No.

16

photographs that provided me anything better

17

Q.

All right. Let me go back to the

17

than the photographs that were in the IPET

18

Exhibit A. It says, a copy of all documents

18

report, the ILIT report, the experts' reports.

19

and photographs reviewed and relied upon by you

19

Q.

Okay. Got you. In a sense, the

20

in, you know, formulation of your opinions in

20

photographs that you reviewed back then relate

21

this case, obviously. Are all the things that

21

to this case but they weren't for this case.

22

you reviewed or relied upon listed in the

22

A.

That's correct.

23

section called references with your report?

23

Q.

All right. I didn't see a list of

24

A.

Yes.

24

depositions. And it may be here. Actually, I

25

Q.

Anything other than what's listed in

25

remember seeing a bunch of lawyer names.

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS

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THOMAS WOLFF, Ph. D. February 6, 2009   Page 18   Page 20   1

THOMAS WOLFF, Ph. D.

February 6, 2009

 

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Page 20

 

1

A.

I believe I was looking at that right

1

than ten, twelve years old.

2

before the deposition. If my memory is

2

Q.

The attorney who retained you was

3

correct, on Page --

3

David Landry?

4

Q.

Consulting?

4

A.

Yes.

5

A.

On Page 71, the last case in which I

5

Q.

I see some of our Acadian cousins have

6

was deposed was either in 1995 or 1996.

6

migrated north. But Mr. Landry represented the

7

Q.

71?

7

plaintiffs?

8

A.

Yes. 71 is my curriculum vitae.

8

A.

Yes. He took the case over from an

9

Q.

Oh, it's been separated. Okay. Thank

9

earlier attorney that may be listed in here.

10

you.

10

If you go to the previous page, 17, near the

11

A.

It's Page 18 of my CV.

11

middle, Ed Suprinski originally had the case

12

Q.

Got you.

12

and it was passed along to Mr. Landry.

13

A.

I have served as an expert witness.

13

Q.

And were the plaintiffs successful in

14

Some cases I've been deposed, some I have not.

14

that case?

15

Q.

Have you testified in court, appeared

15

A.

I do not know.

16

in trials?

16

Q.

Your opinion, if you will, in

17

A.

Once, as I recall.

17

connection with this drowning case, was it your

18

Q.

And where was that?

18

opinion that the dam operator or -- who was

19

A.

That was in Bay City, Michigan, and it

19

responsible for that dam?

20

was on a -- it would be at the top of Page 18

20

A.

A power company in Michigan.

21

of my CV, expert witness on drowning below

21

Q.

Okay. They were responsible for the

22

hydropower dam. 1993.

22

lack of warnings?

23

Q.

And what was the nature of your

23

A.

I don't recall that I issued an

24

testimony in that case?

24

opinion. I answered various questions about

25

A.

Um -- a young man was fishing below a

25

common practices and what was in various

 

Page 19

 

Page 21

 

1

dam, and with waders on, and there was a hole

1

regulations about dams.

2

below the, a -- below the water was a deep

2

Q.

Okay. So you didn't go the next step

3

scour hole due to the outflow of the hydropower

3

to say whether the regulations were violated or

4

facilities, and he slid down into the hole, his

4

not?

5

waders filled with water and he drowned in view

5

A.

I may have. I do not recall.

6

of his wife and young children. My role was

6

Q.

All right. Let's --

7

largely to explain to the attorneys and the

7

A.

The regulations -- I don't recall.

8

judge various features of dams and to what

8

Q.

In any of the cases listed here in

9

extent there were various Federal Energy

9

your CV where you were retained as a consultant

10

Regulatory Commission requirements about

10

or an expert in connection with any kind of

11

warning signs and so forth on dams. So I

11

litigation, are any of them particularly

12

served as a person knowledgeable on dams.

12

relevant to the issues which you address in

13

Q.

And you were retained by the

13

this case?

14

plaintiffs or the defendants in that case?

14

A.

There was one that involved levees.

15

A.

I was retained by the plaintiffs.

15

Q.

Okay. Which one?

16

Q.

Okay. Did you give a deposition in

16

A.

That would be in the middle of

17

that case?

17

Page 71. Ruman, Clements, Tobin and Holub.

18

A.

I believe I did. That's been more

18

This was a levee near Hammond, Indiana, near

19

than fifteen years ago.

19

Gary, Indiana, east of Chicago, and a party

20

Q.

Would you still have copy of your

20

constructing I believe a parking lot for a bus

21

deposition in your files?

21

terminal had degraded part of a levee. A flood

22

A.

I do not know.

22

came along and flooded an area that would not

23

Q.

Okay.

23

have been flooded had the levee been

24

A.

I moved to a new home last year and

24

degraded --

25

probably threw away some things that were more

25

Q.

Had the levee not been degraded.

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THOMAS WOLFF, Ph. D.

February 6, 2009

 

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1

A.

Had the levee not been degraded. And

1

Q.

Okay. Well --

2

I was called on the answer a number of

2

A.

There are various reports about

3

questions about levee design and levee height.

3

levees.

4

Q.

Okay. And who owned the levee in that

4

Q.

Right. And we're going -- we'll get

5

case?

5

to those, too.

6

A.

My recollection was that it was a

6

Now, Number 7 asks you to produce a

7

levee -- local levee district, county or

7

copy of any exhibits, animations or

8

township levee district. It may have been Lake

8

demonstrative evidence which you might use at

9

County, Illinois. And I believe it was a Corps

9

the trial of this case. Do you have anything

10

constructed levee turned over to local

10

other than what's included in your report that

11

interests.

11

you intend to use if this case goes to trial?

12

Q.

And was there any issue in that case

12

A.

No.

13

about why the levee breached?

13

Q.

Okay. We have your CV. I trust this

14

A.

No, the levee had been deliberately

14

is the latest version --

15

breached for this construction.

15

A.

Yes.

16

Q.

Okay. Do you have a deposition in

16

Q.

-- most recent version of your CV.

17

that case?

17

You gave us your invoice.

18

A.

Yes.

18

Now, Number 10 asks for you to produce

19

Q.

Or did you give a deposition in that

19

maps which would identify all points of

20

case?

20

measurements by latitude and longitude and

21

A.

Yes.

21

identify referenced landmarks for water heights

22

Q.

Did you issue a report in that case?

22

and/or land heights used in connection with

23

A.

I do not -- I may have issued a

23

your report. I know you talk about some

24

report. I do not recall.

24

subsidence and whatnot in your report.

25

Q.

And do you have a copy of your

25

What is the source of your information

 

Page 23

 

Page 25

 

1

deposition from that case?

1

about those elevations?

2

A.

Again, I don't know without looking at

2

A.

The IPET report, the ILIT report,

3

this point.

3

um -- the Woolley and Shabman report, various

4

Q.

Do you remember the name of the case?

4

reports that are in my reliance materials.

5

A.

I do not recall the specific name of

5

Q.

All right. Other than those three

6

the case. It may have had the term Lake

6

sources, and you listed IPET, ILIT and this

7

County, Indiana in the title.

7

decision-making chronology report from Woolley

8

Q.

Okay. And were you retained by the

8

and Shabman, any other sources of information

9

plaintiffs or the defendants?

9

for identifying points?

10

A.

Plaintiffs.

10

A.

Let me clarify. I was using those as

11

Q.

Same thing; I would ask for a copy of

11

example sources of my entire set of reliance

12

that deposition if you can locate it.

12

materials. I have --

13

 

MR. STONE:

13

Q.

Okay.

14

Dr. Wolff, I'm asking you now to

14

A.

-- as you're aware, a substantial

15

search when you get back home and see

15

number of various reports related to this case

16

if you have those.

16

that are listed in my reliance materials.

17

THE WITNESS:

17

Q.

But in forming your opinions in this

18

Okay.

18

case, did you rely upon any specific set of

19

EXAMINATION BY MR. STEVENS:

19

measurements for --

20

Q.

Are any of these other cases that you

20

A.

I did not make any measurements or

21

list here on your CV, are any of them other

21

rely on any specific set of measurements.

22

cases involve a levee?

22

Q.

All right. Did you rely on

23

A.

No.

23

hydrographs at all in forming any of your

24

Q.

Okay.

24

opinions in this case?

25

A.

Not legal cases.

25

A.

I have certainly looked at hydrographs

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1

that, for example, show the water higher than

1

A -- and it takes a lot of discipline to walk

2

the top of the levee. And I did not produce

2

through this, so bear with me.

3

any hygrographs. I did not do any modeling or,

3

MR. STONE:

4

I don't believe, any calculations even in this

4

Take your time.

5

work.

5

MR. STEVENS:

6

Q.

And can you tell me the source of the

6

I'm not very good at being

7

hydrographs you looked at, who did generate

7

disciplined.

8

those hydrographs?

8

EXAMINATION BY MR. STEVENS:

9

A.

The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers.

9

Q.

Number 12 asks for copies of documents

10

Q.

Okay. Can you steer me to the

10

cited or referenced in your expert report.

11

specific ones, are they referenced in your

11

Now, to go back to the references, Page 51, you

12

materials, which ones you used?

12

told us earlier that is the universe of

13

A.

I don't believe that my report points

13

references you rely upon.

14

to specific hydrographs. My general

14

A.

That is correct.

15

understanding is that the actual hydrographs

15

Q.

Okay. If you have Page 51 in front of

16

used in various places in this matter go back

16

you, of your report, I just kind of want to

17

to the hydrographs in the IPET report which

17

check them off because there are only --

18

were assembled by recognized experts.

18

there's three pages but it will go pretty

19

Q.

Right.

19

quickly. The American Society of Civil

20

A.

And then there are various calculated

20

Engineers, Hurricane Katrina External Review

21

hydrographs made by different modelers. But

21

Panel. Right? "What went wrong and why?"

22

again, my work has been more related to the

22

Have you produced that report?

23

design history, and I have taken those

23

A.

It is my understanding that the

24

hydrographs as background information and not

24

Department of Justice attached those materials

25

have done any work very specific with those

25

to the CD. This is a publicly available book.

 

Page 27

 

Page 29

 

1

hydrographs.

1

Q.

Is that on the CD?

2

Q.

All right. Now, a hydrograph used in

2

MR. STONE:

3

the IPET report, for example, those would be

3

We've tried to produce everything

4

easy to kind of figure out. When you say you

4

for you here, again, so that you'd

5

used hydrographs from other modelers, did you

5

have it today. But it's all been

6

use Dr. Westerink 's hydrographs?

6

produced in the past, too, so.

7

A.

I've not looked at Dr. Westerink 's

7

A.

That is a soft bound book widely

8

report.

8

available.

9

Q.

Can you tell me whose -- which

9

EXAMINATION BY MR. STEVENS:

10

modeler's hydrographs you looked at?

10

Q.

Okay. Then the next one is the

11

A.

I have reviewed reports by both, um --

11

Deposition of Baumy, Naomi, Powell and O'Cain.

12

Dr. Mosher, I have looked at some degree to

12

We have those, we attended those depositions,

13

Dr. Ebersole 's report, and I have read

13

so you don't need to produce those. I guess

14

Dr. Bea 's reports. All of those include

14

while I'm doing this we might as well kind of

15

hydrographs. But as a geotechnical engineer,

15

kill two birds with one stone.

16

the focus of my work has been that of matters

16

That first report you list, can you

17

related to the soil. And as a broader civil

17

tell me what specifically about that ASCE

18

engineer with experience in the overall design

18

review panel report you relied upon in forming

19

of flood control structures, levees and so

19

your opinions in this case?

20

forth, I have, um -- reviewed some of the

20

A.

I've looked at many things. I'd have

21

design history of this project, but I have not

21

to go back to my report. I believe I quote

22

had any need to do any work very specific to

22

part of that in my expert report. The one

23

hydrographs other than to generally understand

23

thing that comes to mind is, as I recall, the

24

the nature of the high water.

24

ASCE report states that the breaches in

25

Q.

Okay. Item Number 12 on the Exhibit

25

St. Bernard Parish along the MRGO were caused

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1

by overtopping.

1

declarations.

2

Q.

And you accept that as an accurate

2

MR. STONE:

3

assessment?

 

3

Can I just say something again?

4

A.

Yes.

4

If there is something here that you

5

Q.

Okay. Anything else about that

5

don't have, whether we failed to

6

report?

6

produce it or you just didn't bring it

7

A.

Not that I recall unless I'm

7

with you, if you give us a chance to

8

specifically pointed to something.

 

8

try to bring it around for you we can

9

Q.

And we'll go into it in a bit, but I

9

probably go pull it up here in this

10

just want to go through and ask you what you

10

office.

11

consider to be significant, as you recall, for

 

11

MR. STEVENS:

12

each one of these. The depositions of Baumy,

12

Okay. Very good. Thank you.

13

Naomi, Powell and O'Cain. Can you tell me what

13

MR. STONE:

14

about those folks' testimony you rely upon in

14

At least we'll try.

15

forming your opinions in this case?

 

15

MR. STEVENS:

16

A.

I don't recall that I relied on

16

We'll see as it goes. For now, I

17

anything specifically. I believe I mentioned

 

17

want to do what we're doing, and I

18

those in my report as documents reviewed.

18

thank you for bearing with me.

19

Q.

Okay. But as far as any one of these

19

EXAMINATION BY MR. STEVENS:

20

folks, let's say Nancy Powell, for example,

 

20

Q.

There was a second declaration by

21

anything that she might have testified to in

21

Dr. Bea dated September 17th of '07 regarding

22

her deposition that --

22

manmade features bordering the MRGO. Anything

23

A.

I don't recall getting anything

23

in particular about that "dec?"

24

particularly useful to my report out of those

 

24

A.

Again, if I refer to my specific

25

depositions of Corps personnel.

25

statement, it would be difficult without

 

Page 31

 

Page 33

 

1

Q.

All right. The next one is the

1

looking at those materials to recall which of

2

declaration of Dr. Bea regarding failures along

2

his statements were in which declarations.

3

the IHNC dated April 16, '06. What about that

3

Q.

And then he gave a deposition dated

4

declaration did you rely upon in forming your

4

November '07. And again, anything about that

5

opinions in this case?

 

5

depo you recall?

6

A.

Dr. Bea has published many

6

A.

Not with any specificity.

7

declarations, and it is frankly difficult to

 

7

Q.

And then I'm going to ask you the same

8

recall which was said -- what was said in which

8

thing. You have Dr. Bea listed four more

9

of his many declarations. What I have focused

9

times. Declarations dated March 25, '08, A and

10

on across the breadth of those declarations, as

10

B. Anything about those you recall? And you

11

a geotechnical engineer, is his method of

 

11

have the list in front of you so I'm not going

12

taking samples, his reliance on the erosion

12

to recite what they say.

13

function apparatus, issues related to levee

13

A.

Again, as we get more recent in time,

14

settlement, slope stability, factors of

14

um -- did I not list the July reports --

15

safety -- essentially, he discusses a number of

15

declarations? My recollection is that Bea

16

geotechnical matters that I have read and have

16

issued July declarations where he spent a

17

then referred to at various points in my

 

17

larger amount of time speaking for the erosion

18

report, particularly the nature of the staged

18

and the modeling. And those may not have, as I

19

construction of these levees, um -- his coinage

19

see here, been listed in the references.

20

of the term earth berm spoil bank as it -- as

 

20

Q.

Okay. Anything in particular about

21

he attempts to differentiate that term from

21

the July 2008, I trust --

22

levees, his use of the erosion test, his

22

A.

Yes.

23

attempted modeling of erosion and so forth.

23

Q.

-- declarations of Dr. Bea?

24

Q.

Okay.

24

A.

As I recall, those declarations, um --

25

A.

That crosses a number of these

25

produced much more information regarding

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1

LS-DYNA modeling, regarding his use of

1

complex flow regime, and its effects on soil

2

parameters from the erosion function apparatus

2

erosion.

3

test, his use of a time step integrated damage

3

Q.

Anything else?

4

accumulation model, um -- and related matters.

4

A.

Not that I recall at the moment.

5

Q.

Okay. Anything else about the July

5

Q.

Okay. And you list one more thing by

6

'08 declarations of Dr. Bea?

6

Dr. Bea, along with a person named Storesund,

7

A.

Not that I recall at the moment.

7

s-T-O-R-S-U-N-D, dated same date, March 25th,

8

Q.

Okay. Again, we'll come back to that.

8

2008 entitled Analysis of Breaching of MRGO

9

There is one big inventory here -- we've got a

9

Reach 2 EBSBs -- earthen berm spoil bank,

10

lot of topics. This might should have been a

10

right?

11

two-day depo.

11

A.

Yes.

12

 

(Off the record.)

12

Q.

Go ahead.

13

EXAMINATION BY MR. STEVENS:

13

A.

The previously cited report or

14

Q.

Now, the next one listed is, it's Bea

14

appendix on the two structures and the report

15

and Cobos-Roa, Analysis of the Effects of U.S.

15

now cited are essentially dealing with the same

16

Army Corps of Engineers IHNC Lock Expansion

16

area, and it is likely that the erosion testing

17

Project.

17

and modeling matter that I just discussed is

18

 

Anything about that technical report

18

probably in this particular report rather than

19

that you specifically rely upon in forming your

19

the previous.

20

opinions in this case?

20

Q.

As far as any specific reliance by you

21

A.

No.

21

on that report, it would be the same thing that

22

Q.

Okay. And then the next one is the

22

you just described from the two previous

23

same two authors, same date, Analysis of

23

appendices.

24

Breaching of the MRGO, Bayou Dupre and Bayou

24

A.

Yes, sir.

25

Bienvenue Structures.

25

Q.

All right. Now you list Dr. Briaud --

 

Page 35

 

Page 37

 

1

Anything about that report?

1

A.

Briaud. Jean-Louis Briaud.

2

A.

Those were, as I recall, essentially

2

Q.

Sounds kind of Cajun.

3

appendices to the declaration, and those