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To be honest I preferred the Necrons before they got their own codex.

Before then they were just these things that the Imperium saw on the edge of the map. Occasionally whole systems would go dark too quick for even a distress signal to be sent and no one could figure out what the fuck was happening. A ship would spit a floating mausoleum and the captain, if he had the clearance to read some of the more odd reports, would order all the windows barred, the engines shut down and every fucking thing turned off. Then they would drift by as it drifted by. He would be holding a gun, not to protect himself, that is a childish hope. It would be to go quickly should anything unexpected happen. There were vague things the Eldar sort of remembered from a time before humanity had even thought of climbing trees, let alone thought to come back down. Where they some sort of gods? Monsters? A race malevolent and terrible? Some sort of construct? No one remembers. The Harlequins, those great clown-historians, seem to remember something. You ask them questions on the subject and they claim ignorance, but they also stop smiling and how often does that ever happen? The Orks, long suspected by the Mechaincus to be an engineered race themselves, seemed drawn to the rumors of their positions like moths to flames. No one quite knew why and the Orks couldn't explain it. Even deamons refused to talk about them. Was it fear or disgust? And what was it behind the Gates of Vaul that scared them so? They were good in this role. They scared the shit out of any and everything ever. They were the ultimate 'shit got real yesterday, shit got soul-crushing today'. Now they are just a bunch of bickering old men in chrome and it saddens me that this is a step up from their most recent previous incarnation.

Yes. The feel of them is gone. Before they were some sort of faceless horror that left worlds barren when one of their vessels passed too close. They were as uncaring as gravity and as stoppable as the tide. No matter how big your empire, no matter how grand your armies or impressive you technology when one of these started to drift across your borders you ordered everyone to back the fuck away and let it drift by because it would annihilate

anything that got too close up to and including planets. And may the gods avert their eyes from your end should you actually wake them up. What were they? Old. Possibly metallic. Or where those metallic things just hand puppets for something far more malevolent and godlike. The greatest Ork WAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!s, of the monumental sort they only seemed to organize when these horrors rolled by, could slow them down for a while and maybe divert their course a little. Now we know what they are. They are a bunch of senile old men lamenting their past glories and complaining about next-doors children on their lawn. Now they let White Scar captains and Eldar rangers go in the name of fair play. The Firstcrons knew as much about fair play as the event horizon of a black hole. Now they team up with Blood Angels to kill Tyranids where once they would either have ignored them for the insects that they were or murdered the lot of them because cold-blooded death emanates from them like radiation from uranium. Now they write snarky letters to Inquisitors where the Oncoming Storm knew nothing of something as petty as ego.

Hey. Hey, here's an idea. They still have models, but still aren't a playable faction. They're an endgame. If the game "ends," on a roll of a 6 (Or . Can't remember if high or low = game over), the Necrons awaken. Each turn, a number of Necrons equal to (a number of 2d6 equal to the turn number) awaken and burrow out from beneath the earth. If the # rolled is >10, you get 10 Warriors and the remainder are Immortals. If >20, you get 10 warriors, 10 immortals, and 10 flayed ones. If >30, you get warriors, immortals, flayed ones, and wraiths. >40 adds Spyders, >50 adds a single Monolith (Regardless of how many is extra), and each additional 10 beyond 50 gives another monolith. Each unit deepstrikes 4d6" from the center of the map, and follows a simple flowchart-style diagram ("1) If enemy is within range, fire on them. If not, or if unit is Flayed ones, advance to 2) kinda thing). At that point, each player has the option at the end of each of their turns to either continue playing, with Necrons counting as enemy units for the purpose of KP or objectives, or retreat from the field. Necrons take their turn after all the players have, operating under the directions of the flowchart. If the Necrons ever have the highest # of KP of all the players, or if they control the majority (or 2/3?) of the objectives,

the Necrons win and both players lose. Otherwise, after the last player has retreated, the Necrons take their last turn and then the victor is assessed. It'd make the game last longer (Ugh), but add a fucking terrifying possible scenario (Fluff-wise) and a really, really sticky situation on the tabletop should it occur.

They should be very much at the height of their power. Then why do they not do all that much subjugating and other shit? Because they have already done it a thousand times before. They have already done everything before. Can you imagine something? Anything no matter how insane, inane, brilliant, petty, awesome, beautiful, horrific. They have done that as well. Don't care exactly what you were thinking. It doesn't matter. They have done it. Multiple times. They have done everything. In every variation and combination. So they sleep, because only nothing is left to do. They are still at the height of their power. We do not notice them because its a big galaxy and any assholes who encounter them are never heard from again. We never grab their attention because we are the ants that scurry across their lawn. Eye of Terror? How quaint. We built one of those once. Only on not such a meager scale, then we dismantled it because it looked untidy. Tyranids? We were here the 1st, 2nd and 7,632nd time they cycled through this galaxy. We we just as unimpressed the first time as we are now. Orks? You still have them? Eldar as well? They were mildly entertaining for a time. The Cadian Pylons and Lyrixia and such things are toys left over from their infancy or things made by latter and now extinct cultures aping their betters. But you never outright claim this or state it or write it down. You hint at it subtly with half-truths, contradicting creation myths and cautionary tales.

I preferred the pre-C'tan Necrons too. The thought of a silent army marching forward destroying everything so completely that it may as well have never been there in the first place is a fantastically terrifying prospect. This vast army of ghostly spectres that can't be reasoned with, phasing in and out of existence as they stride across the city. Las and autocannon fire tearing swathes through one of them but unseen hands seem to quickly piece it back together. The other undying monstrosities around it carry on unphased by the incoming weapons

fire. Until the last of the defenders is vanquished and the city is silent except for the metallic clank of robotic feet in the concrete and the other worldy shriek from their weapons as they begin deconstructing the city. Soon nothing is left of the city or its occupants. No craters or evidence of a battle. A ship arrives to answer a distress signal from the city but finds nothing. It is as if the city never existed in the first place.

>The great modern fantasies were written out of religious, philosophical and psychological landscapes. They were sermons. They were metaphors. They were rhetoric. They were books, which means that the one thing they actually werent was countries with people in them. The commercial fantasy that has replaced them is often based on a mistaken attempt to literalize someone elses metaphor, or realize someone elses rhetorical imagery. For instance, the moment you begin to ask (or rather to answer) questions like, 'Yes, but what did Sauron look like?'; or, 'Just how might an Orc regiment organise itself?'; the moment you concern yourself with the economic geography of pseudo-feudal societies, with the real way to use swords, with the politics of courts, you have diluted the poetic power of Tolkiens images. You have brought them under control. You have tamed, colonized and put your own cultural mark on them. vis. >But I can't build a TA Rhun-heavy Mordor army unless I know the exact nature of Sauron and everything about Mordor and the political structure of Rhun!!

Honestly I'd like a mixture of both Oldcrons and Newcrons. I liked the Newcron fluff initially because then they weren't space terminators working for 2 space soul-vampires (one of which had no personality and one which was just as 'Bond villain' as the current Necron characters); they could have a bit more personality to them. But after reading posts like these two: >>19832599 >>19833201 I realized that the 'unknown robotic horrors' feel does work pretty well for them. But I also like the feeling of an ancient empire waking up and finding a bunch of upstarts in their old territory. So combine them. The Necrons are coming back and they aren't some fallen empire. They have power beyond what any other factions can imagine. Much of the workings of reality are at their cold, metal fingertips. To all the other races, they seem impossible to read. They don't display emotion, they don't gloat, they don't make speeches, they don't speak, they don't communicate with outsiders at all. They just come, do what they want, then leave. They seem soulless and robotic to everyone. But they aren't. At least when it comes to the higher ups. The Lords and Crypteks can think for themselves and make their own plans. They're just really fucking old, so their goals and plans don't always make sense to the insects scurrying around in their old stomp-grounding.

Sometimes what the Necrons want is kind of obvious. They suddenly arrive in an Imperial system and wipe out any human influence there. People are slaughtered, buildings razed, space stations destroyed. They clean the system of humanity's taint. Other times people are confused as to what just happened. A necron force shows up in a system, then lands on seemingly random planets, ignoring others entirely. And they don't properly take control of these chosen planets, they just take control of specific areas. Any intrusion is dealt with harshly, but they leave everything else alone. The Imperials can see they're doing *something*, they just can't tell what. And just as suddenly, they vanish, taking everything they brought, and possibly more, with them. The Imperials call it a victory, say they stopped the Necrons, but they never figure out just what they were there for in the first place. Make that their fluff. They can do all sorts of shit that most races could only dream of. They can swat most resistance aside. They regard most races as nothing more than upstarts that aren't worth their attention. The only ones they remember, the Eldar and Orks, are nothing more than children playing with their parents' toys and a hard to cure disease respectively. The leaders of the Necrons can think for themselves and have their own agendas, but they are all so old, so beyond mortal wants and desires, their actions don't make sense to anyone not thinking in the extremely long term. That's how I want Necrons portrayed.

The C'tan were the VERY FIRST beings to EVER EXIST. They were ethereal, incorporeal, invisible, intangible. They were extremely vast clouds of pure energy. They fed on stars. They didn't give a shit about other stuff, they were just hungry (thirsty?), and fed (drank?) constantly. Sooner or later, they realized "Hey! I'm an extremely huge mass of energy! And I eat stars! And stars live a long time, but my eating them significantly quickens their inevitable death! I should fly!", and so they did, and they "evolved" wings, allowing them to fly to other stars. They were so above everything, they didn't even notice the Old Ones. So, the Necrons find the Nightbringer eating on their star. Via technowizadry, they sucked the C'tan - the huge ethereal star monster - into a Necrondermis (Living Metal) body. They did this with many, many, MANY more C'tan. The C'tan are not "gods" in the same sense that the Warp Gods are gods. Think of it this way; imagine dropping a chemist, or a physicist, into the Neolithic era. His knowledge would be absolutely lovecraftian to the Neolithics. Why? Because while it is totally possible and understandable, they lack the knowledge to understand it. That's how the C'tan are. They are beings of pure energy, and as such, moving atoms around, or fucking with time, or just obliterating shit, is fully within their realm of possibility. They are scary BECAUSE they are "Science" and not "magic". The cold reality, is that something so terrible, so horrible, is possible. It's not something from space-hell, it's something from HERE and NOW. You cannot understand them in the same way a Neolithic Man could not understand quantum physics. It's just beyond you.

Imagine being a Neolithic man. Your new "Sie-En-Tist" god-king looks down at your tools, and says "No! You men, go take your rocks, and bang on this specific stone!". And you do. He then lights a fire like it was nothing. Fire is precious, a gift from above, because of how hard it is, and this sie-en-tist just makes it like it was nothing! He then loads the rocks you broke up into the fire. And from it, comes this amazing new metal! It doesn't break, it can be hammered into shape! And then he shows you that he can make a liquid that burns like fire, and can be made into bars to clean with! Imagine that for a minute, the absolute mindfuck it would be like. That's the C'tan. They are so incredibly powerful - because they ARE energy beings put into metal bodies, after all - that they just will shit to happen, and it does. The C'tan feed off of energy. They don't eat souls. They "eat" the bio-electric signature from living beings. They find it tastier than stars, but unlike stars, this bio-electric food is infinitely replaceable, and doesn't make you as full as quickly. Stars are an infinity of whitebread, humans are a caviar plate on the run. The C'tan only "fear" one thing: The Warp. They cannot interact with it. It doesn't make sense. The C'tan are beings of pure logic and science, the Warp is illogical, and makes no sense. That's why the C'tan wanted to "Shut down" the Warp. That's why the Pylons exist. That's why the Pariah gene was implanted into humanity. The C'tan want an endless, regenerating buffet of organics. That didn't work for them. That's why I like the new fluff about the C'tan better. The whole "More than just 2, there's fucktons of shards out there" thing. Why? Because the Necrons shattered the C'tan. It says something about the implacable horde that is the Necrons. Through sheer determination, they turned those star gods into shards. And now, those horrible, evil, Lovecraftian monsters? They're in pieces, and are nothing more than willing servants. Imagine the U.S. shattering Cthulu and using his shards to fight Russia. That's what they did. And it also opens up a wealth of new possibilities. The Deciever plots and schemes, and infiltrates human society? Yeah. It's part of a bazillion year scheme that the individual shard's Overlord owner has in play. The implacable evil horde is still possible. Hell, it's better now. The OldCron fluff sucked, let's be honest. Rewind a few years back, and EVERYONE was saying they wanted EXACTLY WHAT WE GOT NOW. The Necrons are still the monsters that make the gods themselves shit themselves. The Necrons are still the horrible beings that are exterminating the Frogs creations. They just have personality now. The Dolmen Gates thing is pretty pooey, I do agree. But that's just long distance travel. They can still rocket forward into space, just crashing their ships through Imperial cruisers and continuing on their journey. The Dolmen Gates are just used to move shit from one end of the galaxy to another.

Since the earlier posts in this thread brought up the Old Ones. If they arn't the Slann, there's a possibility I've always liked on the identity of the Old Ones, mentioned in Warpstone magazine. So, Just Who Were the Old Ones? This is very much the realm of individual GMs. Originally, the Old Slann were the shapers of the Warhammer World (formally named hear with the Old Slann project code WW1983/HAP.BA) and its races, but as the Warhammer game developed the Old Ones took over and the Slann became their subordinates. I've mostly gone with this idea, but I view the Old Slann (those of the First Spawning) more as junior partners or employees than as servants. I also view the skinny frogmen Slann of earlier editions of Warhammer Fantasy Battle as descendents of the Old Slann, but born outside the traditional spawning pools that gave rise to the current bloated Slann Mage Priests. So, just who were the Old Ones and why were they wiped out by the collapse of the warp gates? My answer begins with the idea that the Old Ones were not entirely destroyed. Every member of the Old One race living on the planet was psykically linked to the warp gates in some incomprehensible teknopsykic fashion. When the gates collapsed, the Old Ones were struck by a massive wave of uncontrolled warp energy, no matter whereabouts on the planet they were. The shock killed the majority of them, but some went mad and some became twisted by Chaos or Law. All of them lost their memories, completely forgetting who and what they were, forcing them to set out on a new road, forging new personalities and goals. The effects were passed on to their offspring. Only a few of the first Old Ones still live, but most are asleep. However some of their descendants live on. Here's the idea: the Old Ones and their descendents are the Dragons. For me this explains the Old Ones affinity for lizard races (including the Zoats) and the willingness of some Dragons to interact with the Elves, a race those Dragons felt they recognised for reasons they could never quite remember. It also gives the Dragons a place in the world, rather than leaving them as something a fantasy game has to include by default. So yeah, heavily centered on Warhammer Fantasy. But I kind of like the idea of the Old Ones as ancient draconic beings, who are remembered only in myths. They were around on terra when dinosaurs were, who they probably picked as their inheritors, until the Necrontyr and C'tan started wiping them out, leaving the Old Ones to uplift mammals instead.