Jackson V AEGLive May 16
Italian translation< CLICK 05/28/13 Please help us!
AEG Live Vice President of Event Operations Accounting
Direct examination from Brian Panish
Q. When were you promoted to vice president?
A. Don’t recall
Q. Was it within 5 years?
Q. And the individual who hired you was Mr. Tim Woolley
Q. He was the CFO of AEG Live
A. Yes, the chief financial officer is responsible for all financial matters of the company and
reporting financial activity?
Q. They are management of the company
Q. And the CFO report to the CEO
Q. That’s the chief executive officer that is what the CEO stands for, correct
Q. And AEG Live has a CEO
Q. That’s Randy Phillips
Q. Who else was working for AEG when you were hired?
A. Mr. Paul Gongaware. Mr. Paul Coatland?
Q. Do they still work for AEG
A. Yes, at that time Mr.Paul Gongaware was the company CEO of the Concert West division
Q. So prior to becoming AEG, he was the company CEO when you joined the company
A. Yes. Paul Gongaware, Meglen Had always worked in the capacity of CEO of Concert West
Division, Mr. Randy Phillips joined later
Q. Mr. Woolley was your soul supervisor is that correct
A. Yes, Mr. Woolley would oversee accounts and other matters such as profit designation
Q. When you were hired, you were an accountant
Q. Your duties Included, creating financial budgets for the company, keeping abreast of balance
sheets and transactions, financial documentations of all types, the money of the company was
Q. When you prepared your reports, Mr. Woolley would check them for accuracy and have the
A. Yes, that is correct he is my boss
Q. Was it under Mr. Woolley that you were trained and he made sure that you did your job
A. Yes, Mr. Woolley has many years long experience in the financial industry
Q. Was Mr. Woolley the tour accountant for This Is It
A. I don’t know if he was the tour accountant but he created and was in charge of the budget for
This Is It
Q. In what capacity did Mr. Woolley work for This Is It in 2009
A. I would say he was in my opinion; he had a broader role then what a tour accountant would be
considered to have
Q. Would you say that Mr. Woolley was management?
A. I would say that he was responsible for developing the overall budget. I can’t give you his
specific job description as I didn’t hire him
Q. Did you report to Mr. Woolley?
A. No I didn’t report to him
Q. When did you stop reporting to Mr. Woolley?
A. That would be in 2002
Q. That was the last time you worked on a project with Mr Woolley
Q Is he working now on a project
A. I’m not clear
Q. What was he working on when he was helping on a project that got nowhere on a Harry Potter
A. I’m not certain
Q. Is AEG now involved in promotions with Rolling Stones?
Q. Was Mr. Woolley involved in Rolling Stones
A. I had no involvement in that
Q. So you don’t know
A. No, I don’t know
Q. When Mr. Woolley became involved in This Is It he was living in Florida
Q. Who is the CFO now
A. Rich Webpain?
Q. And Randy Phillips is still the CEO, correct
Q. Your background…you’ve gone to college
Q. Did you get your degree in accounting?
A. No I did not
Q. Do you have a CPA LICENSE?
A. No, I have worked in accounting; I’ve been the assistant controller to the vice president since
Q. So the answer to my question would be yes
A. Yes. Generally I use the “GAP” system General Accounting Procedures, accounting
principles, standards and procedures to compile financial statements
Q. So it’s generally accepted in the accounting industry
Q. Before coming to AEG who did you work for Avalon Attractions
Q. Before coming to AEG you worked with Avalon Attraction
Q. When you were working for Avalon you were the staff accountant
A. Yes, I also worked part time as controller
Q. How many years were you employed there
A. I was there 15 yrs
Q. You stated that you began in 1984
Q. And then you left Avalon
A. Yes, I left by choice by in 1999
Q. Where did you work from 1999 until you began your work for AEG
A. I held the controller position at TVA Entertainment, I also continued handling accounting in
phoenix for a venue theater
Q. Your work during your career also included merchandising,
A. Yes that’s right, my first job in 1984 for the Jacksons Victory Tour
A. So that’s shirt and merchandise with logos on it, that sort of thing, is that correct
Q. Various forms of merchandise
Q. These things would be sold by the concert promoter
Q. Does a controller report directly to the chief financial officer?
A. I do
A. Yes unless they are in their own position such a Vice President
Panish Let me say something to you, can i finish speaking then you speak
Q. Would you like water
A. No I’m fine
Q. We were talking about being controller, you said you were the controller for AEG for 12 yrs.
As comptroller you’re responsible for all accounting transactions at AEG Live
A. Yes, and for AEG Live events we have a corporate controller
Q. Are you responsible for financial reporting?
Q. Did you give a deposition before this trial?
Q. Did you meet with AEG’s lawyers for those depositions?
Q. Who did you meet with?
A. I met with Ms. Jessica Stebbins Bina and Mr. Wang attorneys for O’Melveny and Myers
Q. How may time did you meet with the attorneys
A. Since or Now, , ermmm probably six meetings
Q. How many since your deposition was taken on November 8
A. Once briefly and twice recently
Q. When were the recent meetings?
A. Yesterday and today
Q. How many hours
A. Let’s see, about four hours yesterday then an hour and half today
Q. Five and half hours in the last two days
Q. Now did you review any documents in order to prepare for today’s testimony?
Q. Did this refresh your recollection?
Q. What did you review?
A. I reviewed some budget reports and a few emails and that’s mainly it.
Q. Mainly it?
A. Well I…there were budgets and emailed reports to management and ermm contracts with Mr.
Q. What emails did you review to refresh your recollection?
A. There were quite a few, from Mr. Woolley too that I may have been included on and emails
about settling payment with vendors
Q. Are they (emails and documents) here today?
A. There are now in my counsel’s possession
Q. This is all to help you
A. Yes when going over a lot of information in short time they have been helpful, its difficult to
recant so much from a long time ago
Q. How may emails have you reviewed that helped you refresh your recollection to testify here
A. I don’t know… dozens
Q. So dozens can be 24 emails
A. There were quite a few, exchanges and some schedules, I can’t say for sure
Q. You say schedules.
A. No not schedules in my mind they are what I call a budget or financial report
Q. did you review your deposition
Q. Did you review your exhibits in the deposition?
A. When I did… I did, not recently no
Q. They were not all documents were they?
A. Yes that correct, some documents may not have been in my deposition
Q. How may emails with Mr. Woolley did you review to refresh your recollection
A. I couldn’t tell you, I looked at a lot of things yesterday,
Mr. Panish: Only way to know is if we have them here today, can we produce to refresh her
Judge Palazuelos: You want them now
Ms. Stebbins: I don’t have issue
Panish: Who has those documents
Stebbing: Your honor I don’t think it fair to give them, as others may be in named in those
that are not relevant to his witness testimony….
Panish: I would like to see
Q. How many different emails are there regarding Mr. Woolley?
A. I really can’t tell you how many there are, it’s not coming to mind
Q. You told me there were several dozens
Q. Would you say there’s 24 to 40 different emails that you viewed to refresh your recollection to
A. There were several exhibits quite a few were emails, 20 to 40 that’s hard for me to say
Q. You know what exhibits are being used in this case
A. I know there were documents I was shown, that were marked as exhibits that were in my
Q. Were there additional exhibits that were not in your deposition?
Q. How many of those were they
A. I don’t know, you know… I didn’t sit there and count them
Q. What’s an estimate of how many documents you reviewed to refresh your recollection, that
were not marked as an exhibit with your deposition
Ms. Stebbins: Your honor, we will bring them all
Q. ma’am how many documents did you review, several dozen
A. My best estimate… there were many, probably in excess of 40
Q. In your deposition there were only 20, did you know that
A. I didn’t know, I don’t recall
Mr. Panish: Let me see if I can refresh your recollections so I will give you a copy of your
deposition; ok with your exhibits
*Mr. Panish gives Ms. Hollander a huge binder of her deposition and exhibits*
Panish: How many exhibits are here *Shows here there were 20*
Q. How many more were shown to you
A. Approximately 20 more
Q. And that was to help you refresh your recollection, so that you can give your best testimony
Q. Some emails reviewed were from Mr. Woolley
Q. Who were they addressed to
A. Some to me, some were addressed to Mr. Webking With me copied on them. Ermmm Some
may have been addressed to Ms. Medina one of the accountants on This Is It. Possibly emails
ermmm to Mr. Gongaware to my recollection
Q. Did you review emails to Dr. Murray from Mr. Woolley
Q. Let’s talk about your responsibilities, would say part of your responsible was creating and
keeping track of financial reports
A. Sure In my capacity as controller, I have a multitude of units I am responsible for, on this
particular tour I was responsible for overseeing the books and general ledger in our accounting
relating to this project. I want to call them books,
Q. Is it to report with accuracy
Let’s talk about AEG Live, they’re concert promoters, that’s their primary business. Are there
other businesses within AEG Live
A. We have done other business from time to time, like museum exhibitions, That’s mainly one
division from AEGLive
Q. Did you work in the exhibitions division?
A. I did many years ago
Q. Is someone else the controller for this division now?
A. It has been sold
Q. So the Only division left now is concert promotions
Q. You are the controller for concerts
Q. What is Concerts West?
A. It’s a brand name used by AEG
Q. What do you mean by that?
A. Concerts West is what we would call a DBA, doing business as. In this situation this is a
name that is attached to company. It’s your face to the public, its the company name you put out
there, it has history in the music industry included in it.
Q. So Concerts West has a name in the industry that is used by AEG
A. Yes to my understanding
Q. When you joined AEG Live, do you know how long they were in business, under current
A. Mr. Anschutz started AEG concerts and it became AEG Live in 2000 or 2001
Q. The concert division of AEG, used to be called what
A. AEG Concerts LLC
Q. And that changed to AEG Live
A. Yes, November 2000, ahhh ermmm. November2000 it was still AEG Concerts
Q. AEG Live is a division of AEG
Q. And when did Concerts West come to AEG Live
A. It was part of the organizations brand name used when AEGLive started in 2000
Q. AEG Live was first called Anschutz Entertainment Group
A. AEG Concerts LLC
Q. AEG Concerts LLC changed in May of 2000 to AEG Live
A. I can’t be sure it changed in 2000, 2000 or 2001, I don’t know
Q. When you began there, what name was being used?
A. It was operating under Concerts West
Q. Was that Anschutz Entertainment Group
A. It was AEG Concerts LLC
Q. AEG Concerts LLC was doing business as Concerts West
Q. AEG Concerts LLC changed their name to AEG Live but still doing business as Concerts
Q. It still the same but different name
Q. Does Concerts West have its own division
Q About how many people work for that company (Concerts West)
A. erm ahh, oh Maybe ten
Q. And the co CEOs are, John Meglen and Paul Gongaware
Q. And they report to Randy Phillips CEO/President of AEG Live
A. To my understanding, yes
Q. Was Mr. Gongaware and Mr. Meglen co CEOs before Mr. Phillips came
Q. When did Mr. Phillips come to company?
A. I don’t know
Q. More than 5 years
Q. Was it 10 years
A. I don’t know
Q. Was it shortly after you started with the company?
A. I can’t be sure
Q. Can you give an estimate?
A. If you want an estimate, probably in 2002
Q. Mr. Phillips definitely arrived after you were already employed with AEG
A. Yes that’s right
Q. You started in May of 2001
Q. So you’re there since May of 2001, maybe Mr. Phillips is arrives by 2004
Q. Sometime in that time frame, Mr. Phillips joined the company and you were already there
A. I’ve been there a loooooong time
Q. That would be precise
A. I’m pretty precise
Q. Now, the touring division is it a separate division of AEG Live
A. Can you define that
Q. AEG touring you work for them,
A. Yes they’re my responsibility
Q. How many divisions does AEG have in separate to touring?
A. We also have venues, many across the country, at least 20
Q. When you say venue is that concert stadiums
A. Yes but smaller, venues are not arena size
Q. What about the O2,
A. That is our parent company
Q. That has big capacity
Q. What about Home Depot is that part of AEG
Q. How big are some of these other venues
A. They seat 7000 or smaller
Q. So AEG owns arena that seat from 7000 to 1000
Objection: Over ruled
A. ermm we operate the venues, I cant give you an exact number, the cap tends to run from 7000
to 1000 that we just manage but now own.
Q. Are you the controller for the venue division as well?
Q. What else, what other divisions are you the controller for
A. We have regional offices that may produce one of our shows, we may rent out venues. I
oversee the accounts for those regional offices as well
Q. Any other division
A. Yes we have a festival division
Q. Are you the controller for that division?
A. I’m involved, but not controller
Q. Does this division have a separate controller?
Q. Does that controller report to you
Q. Any other division that you haven’t mentioned
A. I’m thinking off my head… we have a small corporate concert division. For companies like
Microsoft who want to have an employee summit, we would entertain that
Q. You do the day to day, you oversee the finances for all these divisions
Q. Anything else
A. No, not that comes to mind
Q. Ok now, it was the Concerts West division and AEG Live, which were slated to promote and
produce This Is It
Q. Mr. Meglen and Mr. Gongaware are in charge of Concerts West
Q. Are they still in charge today?
Q. And you were to oversee accounting for this project… set the financial procedure
Q. Are these procedure in writing?
A. Yes we have them in writing
Q. And this financial procedure is supposed to be followed by the company
Q. So all financial transactions have consistency that becomes a part of a financial report
Q. Within the touring division, there has to be financial projection for each tour
A. Yes and I’m responsible for making sure those books are maintained
Q. What do you mean by books?
A. Its electronic accounting system the basically, fundamentally it’s called a general ledger. We
make payments, tally expenses, and reconcile receipts, track revenue etc… and it’s all recorded
in a general ledger, aka books
Q. So these books you do, you have various codes assigned to these expenses
Q. Could you describe when and how a company sets that up
A. We have established a chart of accounting that can be based on the standard categories in any
business; let’s say this accounting chart is used uniquely to your operation
Q. Do you give a number to each of your accounts?
Q. So let’s say you have vendor who delivers paper clips
A. Yes there would be a number and account code that identifies that vendor
Q. So for that vendor you can see how much you paid and bought for that particular vendor
A. That’s right
Q. So you have a general amount and what you expect or allot to deal with this vendor
A. Yes each vendor is assigned a budget
Q. In 2009, This Is It was one of those projects, you were responsible for that account
Q. I believe you estimated that you were involved in 20 types of concert shows since working at
A. Yes that was my estimate, 20 tours not shows, there’s a big difference
Q. So Michael Jackson’s This Is It was that a tour
A. Yes that was classified as a tour
Q. Even though This Is It, was not on a route, would be at the O2 only, this was classified as a
Q. So Celine Dion in Vegas only is a what
A. That is classified as a residency
Q. What’s the difference between, This Is It only be at the O2 being called a tour and Celine
Dion only being in Vegas being called a residency
A. I can’t really tell you why somebody decided to call it 2 different things
Q. And it was Mr Webking the CEO who informed you, you would be working on This Is It
A. Sorry he is CFO
Q, Who is the CEO of AEG
A. Currently the CEO of AEG is Dan Bekerman
Q Was he the Tim Leiweke CEO in 2009
Q.. Tim Leiweke was let go from the company do you know why
A. He’s no longer with the company, I don’t know under which circumstances he was let go
Q. So the answer is you don’t know
A. Yes, I don’t know
Q. Have you ever met Mr Phillip Anschutz
A. Yes, I have met Mr Anschutz
Q. Would you agree that advances for This Is It required many financial documents that needed
to be prepared?
Q. And they were accurately and truthfully prepared
Q. This would include a budget
Q. Reports on cash flow
Q. Contracts with vendors
Q. Contract with independent contractors
Q. Contracts with employees
A. I don’t get involved with any employee contracts, they would never cross my desk ever
Q. Did you prepare the budget for This Is It?
A. No not my responsibility
Q. Did Mr. Woolley prepare the budget for This Is It?
A. Yes the budget for This Is It was Mr. Woolley’s responsible
Q. Did you ask Mr. Woolley to prepare the budget?
Q. So you never sent an email to Mr. Woolley saying Mr. Anschutz wanted to see budget
A. Well I may have sent that email, but preparing the budget wasn’t my responsibility
Q. Were you involved with the budget for This Is It?
A. I was provided with the budget
Q. You made sure it was accurate didn’t you
A. I was not responsible for preparing it, I was responsible for what was spent
Q. First of all, a budget is what you anticipated would be spent on This It IS
Q. And you keep track of what has to be spent
Q. And for This Is It, you were responsible for that project, the financial aspect, what money had
to be paid out
Q. Money due and anticipated to be owed and had to paid out, you took care of that
Q. So you get the budget, then you would check to make sure, whatever was reported to be spent,
Q. And you would check what anticipated to be spent was
A. Well anticipated is broad, it would have been to assure contracts have been fully executed,
I’m not verifying the anticipation of the execution
Q. Well your role was to focus on maintaining financial records, overseeing disbursements and
reporting to the executive management of the This Is It tour
A. Yes, yes, yes
Q. And that payment Paul Gongaware would meet and organize with the executive team
Q. Now the executive management that you had primarily reported to was Mr. Gongaware
A. Well actually it was Mr. Meglen
Q. Could you please look at your deposition?
Q. Does that refresh your recollection with whom you reported to in executive management?
Q. Yes or No?
A. Yes it says primarily I reported to Paul Gongaware.. But…
Q. Does that refresh your recollection of who you primary reported to, Paul Gongaware
Objection: Judge: Over ruled, finish the question
Q. There was someone who had to approve the budget for This Is It
Q. That was Paul Gongaware
A. Of the budget, Yes
Q We are just talking about the budget correct
Q. Does that refresh you recollection that you were primary reporting to Paul Gongaware
A. Yes, sir
Q. Now you also reviewed the budget
Q. And Mr. Woolley created it and Mr. Gongaware approved it
Q. When you were in preparing for your testimony, you received and evidence record
A. I received a summary report, not a detailed report
Q. Did you review all the summary reports to refresh your memory before you testified here
A. I don’t recall how many provisions were issued back in 2009, I reviewed two or three
Q. Did you bring a lawyer with you to review documents in preparation for this case
Q. So you only reviewed what AEG lawyers chose to show you
Q. Are these budgets, compilations of all the costs AEG were expecting to incur for This Is It
A. They were the costs that were expected to be incurred as long as, you know…those costs and
services were in line with what they were contracted for
Mr. Panish asks Ms. Hollander to turn to a page in here deposition so that she could have a
recollection of the compiled budget
AEG Objects, says it’s been a lengthy time since she gave her deposition;
Q. Is it true a that there is budget for compensation for this tour
Q. And you testified that in your deposition
Q. And when you were asked about the compensation section of the budget you didn’t mention
A. No I did not
Q. You were told you can review your deposition which you made under penalty of perjury. And
make any changes you wished
Q. And you made changes because of that penalty of perjury
A. I made one
Q. You never wrote in the deposition
A. I didn’t physically write in the deposition
Q. You were told to right the change in the deposition
Q. Your lawyer made the change
Q. You were told that we can read that deposition here in court in the AEG court hearing
A. That’s right
Q. The budget will include all costs for the tour
Q. Costs associated with performances
Q. Costs for taking the show on the road
Q. Getting all the gear to London
Q. Travel for some
Q. Housing for some
Q. Did I cover the a lot of it
A. Yes in broad strokes, yes
Q. These are just estimates and anticipations
Q. Cost that would have incurred by AEG would have had to be paid, right
A. According to our company policy payment would have been made by… execution of contract
Q. Do you have a document that say that
A. Yes we do, we have a comply users manual
Q. Mr. Gongaware could change that if he wanted on a case by case basis or otherwise
Q, He could ask for any of it to be changed, and you would change that, correct
A. Doesn’t mean we would change that
Q. People would work and he (Paul Gongaware) would pay them later
A. We had situations where contracts were signed later so pay was late. Due to the abrupt end of
tour, deals were renegotiated…
Q. Is it true, people performed services and then after Mr. Jackson died they were paid
A. Yes because the contracts required amendment due to early termination of the tour
Q. Ma’am isn’t true some people worked, then signed contract later, they got paid
A. This is correct
Q. Do you know Travis Payne?
A. I know him as part of cast and crew
Q. Did you know he had a contract with AEG?
A. Did you know he worked without a contract?
A. I don’t know who worked without one. As far as payment would have happened would have
been after serviced were rendered
Q. If a person performed their duties they were paid afterwards without a contract
A. It’s not my place to know that
Panish: takes deposition to witness, ask read line 3 through 14
Q. In your deposition it reads, IF AN INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR PERFORMS
HIS/HER SERVICES ON THE THIS IS IT TOUR, WOULD YOU EXPECT AEG TO PAY
A. TYPICALLY YES…. WE WOULD PAY
Q. Dr Murray was a Doctor performing his services to Mr Jackson..
Objection: by Stebbin, lacks foundation, Over rulled
Q. There is no reason whey they wouldn’t pay his or her obligations. Dr. Murray was the Doctor
performing his services for Mr. Jackson
*Objection lacks foundation, overruled*
A. My understanding was that Dr. Murray was part of the budget, his services was listed on the
budget for the tour on request of the artist
Mr. Panish can you read Ms. Hollander’s answer and my question back
Clerk reads back the question to Ms Hollander………..
Q. Answer the question please?
Objection by Stebbins, Overruled
A. Yes I have a problem with promising “Services” I don’t know what services were actually
Q. You saw Dr. Murray’s contract
A. I saw a draft at some time, I know I testified…
Mr. Panish: Ma’am you testified under oath in your deposition that you reviewed the
contract signed by Dr. Murray, let’s take a look at that
Q. Page 176, this is the contract between AEG Live and Dr. Murray
Q. Now here on the last page of the contract itself, page 6… this is the contract that you review
and was signed by Dr. Murray
Q. If we go to the effective date its May 1
Q. While the contract was agreed upon and finalized in June of 2009, the retroactive start date for
payment and acknowledgement of when Dr. Murray began work was on May 1
2009. Is that
A. Yes that’s correct
Q. Did you understand that Dr. Murray was providing services that day May 1
2009 until the
day Mr. Jackson died; isn’t that true
AEG Objection, Overruled
A. My understanding is limited to what you are showing me on this page
Q. So you don’t have any understanding of whether Dr. Murray preformed any services
A. I was in the accounting department, I can’t say for sure, not me personally
Q. Did someone from AEG tell you that Dr. Murray was performing services for Mr. Jackson at
his CarolWood Home?
A. No not in those specific terms that Dr Murray performed services to Mr Jackson at his
residence in Carolwood
Q. Who told you Conrad Murray was to provided services for Mr. Jackson
A. Tim Woolley advised me that Dr. Murray was being engaged at the request of the artist
Q. And Dr. Murray was retained AEG
A. The contract is with AEG, yes
Q. AEG are the producers of This Is It
Q. And AEG agreed to retain the services of Dr. Murray
AEG Objection by Stebbins, Overruled
Q. Is it true that this contract of Dr. Murray’s, you reviewed at the artist’s request its states,
producers retained Dr. Murray’s services, yet Dr. Murray will act in line with the instructions the
producers set forth and the producers a can terminate his contract if he doesn’t. What date does
the contract take effect
A. The contract says that it takes effect May 1
Q. You say draft when talking about the Murray contract, did you see the being done in the draft
A. I’m using draft because the contract is not executed, meaning all parties didn’t sign it
Q. If Mr. Jackson didn’t die and he signed the contract and AEG signed the contract, Dr. Murray
had already signed the contract…. AEG would owe Dr. Murray money right
AEG Objection by Stebbins: Overruled by Judge.
Q. If all parties singed the contract, it would have been a fully executed contract and I would
have to have, if those cost were approved. There’s no reason why wouldn’t have paid Dr. Murray
Q. If Mr. Jackson wouldn’t have died, you would have had to pay the doctor
A. If all the terms of the contract was adhered to and remained consistent then, yes
Q. Have you seen any other drafts of this contract?
Q. Now, the only reason why you say this is draft contract for Dr. Murray is because no one on
behalf of AEG had signed it
A. I say that because Mr. Jackson didn’t sign it.
Q. Mr. Jackson was dead and could not sign
Q. Do you have any evidence that Dr. Murray didn’t work for Mr. Jackson after being retained
Objection By Stebbins: states Dr. Murray was hired by AEG, Overruled
A. I have no evidence to the contrary
Q. In the budget you included $300,000 to pay Dr. Murray
A. I did not
Q. I’m sorry Mr. Woolley created the budget, per AEG’s agreement with Dr. Murary for the
current budget at the time for $300,000 because the doctor would be paid $150,000 a month.
This was for two months’ pay and the contract was finalized in June.
A. There was $300,000 allotted for Dr. Murray
Q. And that was approved by Mr. Gongaware
A. Yes, that eventually would have been approved by Mr. Gongaware
Q. And the finances for London, there was more than a million dollars put in then tour budget for
A. I don’t recall one million
Q. So that’s more than millions a million dollars, you’re an accountant can you please help me
out. How many months is that from July 2009 to March 2010
A. Its 9 months
Q. And what’s 9 times $150,000 and that would amount to over a million dollars budgeted in for
Q. So that we are clear, this budget was created by Mr. Woolley and approved by Mr.
Gongaware. This budget was to go through to March 2010 for Dr. Murray’s compensation
Mr. Panish: Ok let’s take a look at exhibit No. 179-2 This is the budget
AEG Objection, judge says to show the budget to Ms. Hollander and Mr. Panish shows it to
her. Ms. Stebbins approaches Mr. Panish while he is with the witness. (Side note from
TeamMichaelJackson: OMG STEBBINS LOOKS VERY NERVOUS, OUT OF CONTROL!
She walked up to the witness and Panish, she is NOT permitted to do so without first asking
the Judges permission)
Back and forth exchange ensues between Ms. Stebbins, judge Palazuelos and Mr. Panish:
Mr. Panish: Let me show you this, 641-13... Here’s a memo dated May 20
2009 did you
write this memo
Q. It was created May 11
2009 yet its dated may 20
Q. Do you remember you testified in your deposition that you this on created May 11
A. I really don’t know
Mr. Panish: Ok let look at next page
Q. Is this one of the documents that AEG lawyers showed you in order for you to prepare, for
your testimony today?
A. I’m familiar with this document
Q. Did counsel show you these documents?
A. Yes, I looked at it yesterday
Q. Just like they (AEG Lawyers) showed you all the other documents I presented to you today in
Objection: Stebbins: Judge calls a Sidebar:
BREAK: (Side note: WITNESS LOOKS EXTREAMLY STROPPY!!!! OMG JURY
WITNESSING ALL THIS. Witness is not being truthful, it’s evident to many, we are shocked
the judge didn’t to anything to this witness who is clearly be deceitful whilst under Oath.)
Q. Ms. Hollander is this notebook of documents which you reviewed before coming to testify in
A. It appears to be
Q. I added them all up, there seems to be 80
A. We flipped through it
Q. A Few have been removed? Did you know if there are any you didn’t review
A. Yes, Some were blank
q. And when you were in the hallway counsel removed some. I saw that
Q. Do you know by looking through here which ones were removed?
A. That I can’t answer
Ms. Stebbins: I removed the ones the witness didn’t see.
Panish: I was standing right outside the door, I saw exctly what was happening
Stebbins: I represent I gave to Mr. Panish every document the witness reviewed
Judge Palazuelos: Some were blacked,
Stebbins: Now they are all in full,
Panish: Your honore……
Judge: Let’s keep going
Q. AEG hired Michael Jordan
Court: Everybody burst out laughing…..
Panish: Sorry, yeah, I was watching something about him last night…. Hahah
Q. AEG made advances at least one to Mr. Jackson during preparations for the This Is It tour
Q. These advances were paid directly to Michael Jackson
A. I don’t know, I don’t have a recollection as to who the payee was
Q. Was there advance paid to Michael Jackson, yes or no
A. They were paid on behalf of, in effect to Mr. Jackson. I’m not trying to give an evasive
Q. AEGLive paid advance to Mr Jackson. Yes or No
A. Yes, but they are recoup-able at some point
Q. There were also advances paid to others that AEG wanted to get back from Michael Jackson
Q. Ant this is a cost, not advance
Q. And if it’s a cost not an advance, it should be reported as so, not an advance
Q. Otherwise it would not be done correctly
Q. Cost would be something AEG would incur and pay, correct
Q. And they don’t get paid back from the artist, do they
A. It depends on the situation
Mr. Panish: Let’s look at this exhibit No. …, you wrote this correct
Q. This was created May 11th 2009
A. Yes Im having problem with the date, its dated of May 20
Q. That was in the binder that you went over with counsel
Q. When you created it, it was in May 11th 2009
Q. And when was the tour supposed to start
A. My recollection is the first week of July
Q. So this was roughly created two months before the tour was supposed to start
Q. And this was procedure for the contracts and disbursements you prepared
Q. At the top of the document its says AEG Productions
Q. So this is also AEG Live
Q. You were the authorized person of AEG LLC
Q. AEG Live is a division within AEG LLC
Q. AEG’s other business is producing tours
Q. They also concert promoter’s, correct
Q. All contracts were supposed to be issued by AEG Live Productions, correct
A. ermm……….. This is the standard procedure was AEG Live Productions, yes
Q. Not all contracts should have been issued as AEG Live Productions
A. I don’t know if that was the preference or what the legal department asked
Q. Is the answer to the question yes
Q. Is there something you didn’t understand?
Q. So AEG Live Productions doesn’t have employees
Q. So AEG Live Productions employees and contractors were under AEG Live, and were not
employed contracted by AEG Live Productions
Q. And Mr. Gongaware and Mr. Woolley, were employed by AEG Live, correct
A. Mr. Gongaware yes… Mr. Woolley I don’t know… seriously I don’t know… his quote
unquote employer, as an independent contractor
Q. Are you in charge of people being paid exactly like Mr. Woolley?
Q. Who prepared the checks for payment, was it you
Q. Who gave instructions for these payments and how they should be paid
A. Mr. Woolley
Q. So Mr. Woolley gave instructions of those that had to be paid
A. Not everyone
Q. And this money comes from AEG Live, correct
Q. So do you know those that would be paid that were not employed by the company?
A. We have managers to process payment, ermmmm… like crew related payment, which was
agreed upon at the beginning of tour
Q. So you’re saying they are paid out monies of whatever amount at managers’ authority
A. No Mr. Woolley had to authorize and submit to payroll service
Q. So Mr. Woolley can say pay a million dollars to so and so
A. No he created and simultaneously submitted payroll report for approval and I get copy
Q. So all payment reports go to you
A. I was copied on them
Q. All payment budgets had to be reviewed by Mr. Woolley
A. They were submitted by Mr. Woolley based on projections and needs of the tour
Q. You didn’t have authority to make payments based on services?
A. As Vice President, I have certain authority
Q. Can you approve payment to any party on the tour?
Q. Mr. Woolley had authority to pay
A. Those needed to be paid was added to the budget
Q. Whose payments couldn’t be approved by Mr. Woolley?
A. Mr. Woolley submitted approved budget for payment to payroll. Mr. Woolley had authority to
pay (by submitting to payroll) who was established in the approved budget
Q. Was there anyone Mr. Woolley didn’t have authority to pay?
A. Now he submitted everything
Q. So it a yes
Mr. Panish: There was a payment matrix (pay structure) that Michael Jackson had, for the
tour. There is an Id on the statement that is specific to Mr. Jackson’s pay matrix.
I am going to present you with this exhibit. It’s an approval matrix for all payment
disbursements provided to MJ.
Q. Who is MJ?
A. That would be Michael Jackson
Q. So you’re familiar with this document
Q. And you reviewed this document before your testimony here
Judge Palazuelos questions the exhibit numbers.
Ms. Stebbins: Witness didn’t know if this was an exhibit or not, two docs were stapled
Judge: You can ask the witness.
Mr. Panish: I’m go to read the deposition, page 55 line 3 through 6. MJ approval matrix
Q. Pasted here it reads, last approval MJ matrix
Q. So these two pages, the last two pages is the MJ approval matrix
Q. OK, now your deposition *we can put that up* is this your deposition
Q. This is what you just testified under oath
Mr. Panish: Ok so, can we focus on the approval level
Q. Payment and amount of payments, approval was required
Mr. Panish: No questions to this exhibit, right.
Q. This is a document you wrote
A. I’m not going to argue with you.
Mr. Panish: You can argue. Judge: Mr. Panish no more comments.
Mr. Panish: No comment
Q. Ok… here we see $25,000 Siegel; that means Mr. Siegel can approve up to $25,000 on his
Q. Mr. Woolley can approve up to $50,000
Q. Mr. Phillips up to $250,000
Q. Now let’s go down to this line, $500,000 is that Mr. Gongaware
Q. Then we go to the $2.5 million dollar approval mark, signatures required are Paul Gongaware,
John Meglen, Rick Webking, Tim Leiweke and Dan Beckerman
Q. Above $2.5 million all the aforementioned people plus TNC Denver, and these initials stand
for The Nature Conservancy
Q. What’s that,
A the parent company of AEG Live
Q. That’s Mr. Anschutz company
Q. Now, Mr. Leiweke…that’s
A. Yes that’s Tim Leiweke
Q. And who’s that
A. I don’t know his exact title, he’s a senior reporting to Mr. Anschutz
Q. Do you update Mr. Anschutz on what’s going on?
A. Mr. Anschutz is the highest up, he know what’s going on. It’s not my duty to update Mr.
Q. We were talking about Mr. Anschutz being updated, here is email dated May 18
2009 to you
from Mr. Gongaware right
A. Yes that’s right
Q. And CC on it was Mr. Woolley, John Meglen and Jennifer
A. Yes that’s right and Jennifer was CC because she reports to me
Panish reads email, Dear Tim we are in the process of pulling together …… your update on
the forecast assumption is needed by tomorrow at the latest…. Wants to know if we
arein…. Respect of of the profit split between USA and UK
Q. Did you write that
Q. Request for an urgent forecast… made… for Mr Ansthutz
A. That’s what it says
Q. Do you generally get urgent emails like this
A. We do from time to time, this came from Mr Webking
Q. So there is another from Mr Webking.
A. I don’t remember
Q. Did he write to you or call you
A. I don’t remember
Q. So Mr. Anschutz wanted to know what kind of profits were to be made for This Is It
A. Yes he wanted to know a projections of profits
Q. He wanted to know how much money was made in the USA and UK
Q. Is it your job to gather that information and provide to Mr. Anschutz
A. Yes but Mr. Webking asked me for his info
Q. But you knew it was going to Mr. Anschutz
Q. Regarding the financial forecast, you have to keep updating
Q. You take the amount of revenue and put that against deductions and what’s left would be the
net profit, is that correct
A. Absolutely, in simple terms
Q. And you knew Mr. Anschutz would like to look at this information
A. I was told that information was needed for the company’s forecast
Q. So you wanted to make sure that the forecast was accurate before you sent it to Mr. Webking
to send to Mr. Anschutz
A. We would want to ensure that our forecast was accurate company-wide for anyone
Q. Did Mr. Gongaware had authority to make a contract within a contract?
Q. Negotiate a contract within a contract
Q. And you know there was a contract agreement between AEG Live GCA and Dr. Murray
Q. And you saw that agreement in 2009, didn’t you
Q. And it was your understanding, that AEG’s legal department were to determine the provisions
that was going into the independent contractor contract for Dr. Murray
A. Sorry can you repeat that
Q. And it was your understanding that someone in the legal department would be the one
determining what would be the provisions in the Murray contract
Q. How many lawyers worked in the legal department at that time
A. Ahhh, to my recollection it was about 3 lawyers full time
Q. One of the person in charge of that
A. Yes, Mr. Shawn Trell
Q. Is he here today in court
A. Yes he is here today
Q. In 2009, Mr. Trell was general council vice price of AEG Live
Q. Do you know if AEG Live ever performed a background check on Dr. Murray?
A. I’m not aware of anything in that regard
Q. For the This Is It tour, AEG Live included compensation in its budget for Dr. Murray
A. That’s correct
Q. But you don’t know who negotiated the compensation for Dr. Murray’s contract is that correct
A. Yes that’s correct
Q. And Dr. Murray was the only physician Mr. Gongaware for AEG Live had budgeted in for
this This Is It tours
A. That’s correct
Mr. Panish: I want to show you another exhibit and if you want to take a look please at
your deposition that’s fine
A. Im sorry
Q. That’s ok, this is the recording of your depostion
A, it says on this line, im confused
Q. Let me show you
Q. Ok now, this is an email again from Mr. Woolley, you don’t know who Mr. Woolley worked
A. No that wasn’t the intent, I didn’t know who or what legal entity he may have had a contract
Q. And you review all the paper work every month,
A. every other week (laughter)
Q. Was Mr. Woolley’s name on the list for compensation, for people that were to be paid?
Q. Who paid Mr. Woolley?
A. AEG Live
Q. And this email is to Mr. Phillips and Mr. Webking, the controller and you’re the controller and
Mr. Gongaware of Concerts West
Q. This says that there’s an attachment
Q. And this was sent by Mr. Woolley and what did he attach
A. Well it says, AEG O2 doc, that’s the description of the transaction. Which would be
compensation for the doctor in London. It’s an explanation of difference between compensation
in the US and the UK
Q. And the purpose of this email was to keep you in the loop that it would Dr. Murray and not
Q. So you were involved in the process, that’s you were on the email
Q. And on this page at the top, its talk about the expenses for the tour, rehearsals and various
Q. This is where you discuss, not you, Mr. Woolley discussed the change to the budget
Q. And this was provided to you
Q. And in the email where Mr. Woolley discussed the changes, did he also talk about the reasons
Q. And the first budget this was dated May 19
and was subject 16 of the email
A. Yes that’s right
Q. So Mr. Woolley prepared subject 16 and sent 19
A. Based on the description I would concur yes
Q. That changes discussed, was a renegotiation for Dr. Murray
A. Yes that’s common practice
Mr. Panish: Ok let’s go to number 29, this email is from May 16
can you read please
Umm the number Dr. Murray wishes to have to be permanent physician throughout the pre tour
and tour plus options is $150,000 and has be newly budgeted.
Q. That means $300,000 for the pre- tour which were the 2 months in LA, May and June, is that
A. Yes that’s correct
Q. And this was an expected payment…expense
Q. You don’t put in unexpected payments in do you
A. Umm well no
Q. You don’t say I have unexpected bills at McDonald’s
Q. So you put things in because you want to be as accurate as possible on what your expenses are
Q. This was put in the budget for Dr. Murray to receive $150,000 a month
Q. Did anyone ever tell you take that compensation for the doctor out?
A. It’s not my role
Q. Please answer ther question
A. No, no, no
Q. Did you speak to Mr. Woolley about including the $150,000 a month compensation for Dr.
Murray didn’t you?
Q. Why didn’t you?
A. I… I have the emails from Mr. Woolley, I’m sure we talked about at some point
Q. Did you speak to Mr. Trell general counsel about Dr. Murray’s compensation of
A. I spoke with him, but our conversation wasn’t about the budget
Q. You didn’t answer… did you speak to Mr. Trell about this budget allotted for Dr. Murray yes
*the courts waits, witness thinks*
Mr. Panish: Let me ask the question again… did you speak to Mr. Woolley, about the
150,000 compensation for Dr. Murray being added to the budget
A. I spoke to Mr. Woolley about the inclusions and my conversation with Mr. Trell we discussed
Dr. Murray and it was…..
* courts waits again*
A. Yes if you want to put it that way he (Trell) was anticipated being a part of this project
Mr. Panish wants to play more Of Ms. Hollander’s deposition from December 8
Ms. Stebbins looking and waiting
Mr. Panish we are waiting for you to play it.
Judge was it 84 line 17, we are referring to. Now some discussions with the judge
Q. So you talked to Mr. Woolley and Mr. Trell about inclusion of Dr. Murray in the budget
A. I talked to Mr. Woolley about the inclusion of Dr. Murray in the budget and would have talked
to Mr. Trell about details of that
Q. Did you discuss with Mr Woolley and Mr Trell about the inclusion of Dr. Murray in the
budget or the details of it, yes or no…?
A. In my answer I said I discussed with Mr. Woolley the inclusion, I don’t agree with the
Judge Palazuelos: You are saying yes or no
A. I’m not trying to evade anything
Judge Palazuelos: Play it (referring to Hollander deposition)
Q. Do you recall as you sit her now, ever telling anyone about AEG Live’s decision to include
compensation for Dr. Murray into the tour budget
Q. And who did you talk to about that decision
A. Tim Woolley
Q. Anyone else?
A. Probably Shawn Trell….. You know im a person who has not been through this sort of thing
before, I never said I didn’t speak to Mr Trell, it was an honest answer then, it’s a honest answer
Mr. Panish plays video recording of Ms. Hollander deposition, in the recorded depostion
when Mrs Hollander is asked “Did you discuss with anyone about including Dr Murray on
the budget for This Is It tour? SHE REPLIED “Yes Mr Woolley and Mr Trell”
Then Mr Panish shows Ms Hollander transcripts of her video deposition.
A. This is hard to read
Q. OK im going to blow it up for you, you have seen this before
Q. You reviewed this all in preparation for your testimony
Q. Let’s go to where it says… by the way is there a day on this, 16 of May 2009
A. I can see that
Q. Alright are you with me now
Q. So in a broader stoke this is a financial projection from May 16
Q. Expenses, medical management, medical… all included
Q. $300,000 is in one column, $450,000 in the next…. And finally $750,000
Q. And this is for Dr. Murray yes
A. In my deposition we established it was for Dr. Murray
Q. Is that a yes?
Q. Pre tour $300,000 and another $450,000 and this was as of May 16
2009. This what Mr.
Woolley sent to you and you passed it on to Mr. Webking who as you understand passed the
approved inclusion into the tour budget on to Mr. Anschutz; right….
A. Ummm yes
Q. If you add them all up $300,000 $450,000 $750,000 this comes to $1.5 million included in the
budget for Dr. Murray is that right
A. I can only speak for what’s on this paper, this is the only budget that I have seen
Q. Is this the budget that you reviewed and sent to Mr. Webking and then sent to Mr. Anschutz
A. This version does not say that
Q. Ok who was it to be paid to?
A. I doesn’t say $1.5 million
Q. Ok, this clearly reads for medical management and there is the numbers here
Q. Remember we are talking about number
A. Yes Ok
Q. What number is this?
Q. Whose number is that?
A. That is Mr. Woolley’s numbering system
Q. Mr. Woolley created that code as identifier for medical management daily care
Q. And that medical management daily care was referring to Dr. Murray
Q. The first $300,000 was referring to Dr. Murray’s first two month pay, right
Q Then we also talked about about $450,000 for Dr Murray
A. This only refers to $300,000
Q. As of,, we have largely budgetd for Dr Murray
Q. That was added after February 7th 2009
Q. That was the first budget update sent to Mr Anshutz.
A. Which one
Q. This one
Q. This budget here that we looked at from May 16th, it’s the first revised budget that was sent to
Phillip Anschutz regarding the This Is It tour
A. I can’t say for certain that this was the first one. It was part of that report created by Mr.
Q. Can you tell me if you have any recollection prior to this revised budget prepared by Mr.
Woolley was sent by you sent to Mr. Webking or Mr. Anschutz
A. No I have no recollection of any one prior to that
Mr. Panish: I’d like to show exhibit 179-3, can you take a take a look at this please
AEG Objection overruled
Q. Have you seen this document before, it says code 430 medical management
Q. It says medical management, see that
Q. Is it hard for you to see
A. I can see it
Q. 430, that’s the name of the code giving to Dr. Murray’s services. Is this your recollection
during this process, the 430 code was for medical management daily care
A. Yes looks like same the format,
Q. Do you have any reason, to believe it’s not an AEG Live coding, used for This Is It tour
Panish: she never answered the question.
Judge: have you seen this document before.
Ms. Hollander: I got updates all the time.
Judge: Did you see this type of thing.
Ms. Hollander: Yes.
Judge: Do you have any reason to belive it is not the document as statee
Ms Hollander: No, buts it a random document, it could have been prepared then sent to
someone else and not distributed to me
Q. Do you have any reason to believe he (Mr. Woolley) didn’t send this to you
A. Um.. its very possible, he could have
A. Not sure
Q. Did he ever do that?
A. I can’t say one way or the other
Q. Did you have any reason to believe you didn’t get them all?
A. I can’t say I didn’t get it and I can’t prove that I got them all
Judge: Alright off the record, show her the first part
Q. Okay, see this
Q. Do you have any reason to believe you did not get this
A. I have no way of knowing what was forwarded to me
Q. But it would be normal practice that these budget updates would be only sent to you, correct
A. They could have been sent to me, or not to me
Q This is a budget report
A. Yes, but Mr Woolley does not report to me
Q. Lets go to page 3 of you depostion
Q. Does that look like the type of budget Mr Woolley would prepare and send to you
Q. Any reason to belived that something sent to you was not recieed
A. I cant say I received every single report
JUDGE LET JURY GO HOME, WE CAN DISCUSS, 9.30 AM TOMORROW