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Esther Vilar VS.

Alice
Schwarzer

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>>AS: That's how you look like. Ok.

transcript

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>>Host: Go ahead and argue pretty.

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ALICE vs. ESTHER

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>>Host: Leave something for others.

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A disputation between Esther Vilar and Alice
Schwarzer

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>>AS: May I sit there?

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>>Ev: Now it's getting serious.

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>>EV: I don't know. Something is supposed to be
white wine, right?

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>>Host: Alice!

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>>AS: Yes. This will hopefully be it.

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>>AS: I am sorry. I played by the rules.

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>>EV: Not that I get drunk while it's you who wants
to get drunk.

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>>EV: Yeah?
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>>AS: I'm being growled at.
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>>AS: I know you already, Miss Kring.
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>>Host: Yes.
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>>AS: You, I don't know you, Miss Vilar.
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>>EV: Good day!
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>>Photographer wants to take a photo.
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>>AS: Did you come from Munich now?
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>>EV: Yeah. Where do you live? I thought in
France.
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>>AS: That used to be.
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>>EV: Not anymore?
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>>AS: Meanwhile I am living in Berlin.

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>>EV: Yes. ...because you did an interview with
Sartre
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>>EV: recently that's why I thought you live in
France.
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>>AS: Yeah, well ...half. Still a little bit. I still have a
residence.
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>>EV: When should we start?
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>>AS: We can start now, Miss Vilar. That's fine with
me.
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>>EV: Yes? For heaven's sake!
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>>AS: May I attack you with a question which I
have contemplated.
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>>EV: Yes. Go ahead.
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>>AS: Well, it caught my eye that friends are saying
that there are some people who believe that what
you have written isn't pure stupidity or something
but instead a satire
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and in truth you are a secret feminist who wishes
nothing more dearly then that women react with a
lot of revolt towards your books and emancipate
themselves now.
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I myself don't believe that, mind you. I am leaning
toward the first interpretation.
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I want to ask you that question now:
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Is it a satire or are you serious about it?
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>>EV: I am serious and I am not a secret feminist
but an open feminist
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and in fact I represent a feminine feminism
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while I think that you and the opposite side
generally,
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the feminists, the orthodox feminists represent a
masculine feminism
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because what you call feminism now is a male idea.
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It is made by men. Men who believed what their
mothers told them about women.
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So for example by: Freud, Marx, Engels, Bebel and
so on.
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>>AS: I have read that in your books. Yes.
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>>EV: But I think you shouldn't take those things
seriously as a woman.

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You shouldn't imitate those ideas.

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>>AS: Really? Do you think so?

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It's the same with saying that the world is ruled by
men.

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>>EV: First of all the attachment figures for little
children, who set the norms for the future life are
women

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That's as paradox as saying that seafaring is ruled
by sailors because in reality...

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and so it goes on later. 70% of the pedagogy
students are already women

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>>AS: What do you mean by feminine feminism?
Could you tell in a few sentences...?

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the teachers in elementary schools are women and
in the nursery schools

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>>EV: That you look at women as women and in
fact from a female perspective, that you recognise
that system from the inside and not from the
outside like men see ...or do

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and in the whole education in general you only
meet women.

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because men only know about women what their
mothers have told them from an early age on
about women
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and I think that is just the wrong basis to think like
that about women.
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>>AS: By the way there aren't only the mothers I
think. There is also a public, an environment and a
school and education which forms you.
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There aren't only the mothers.
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>>EV: Yes, but it's usually ...it's mostly ruled by
women because the first...

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>>AS: But therefore most of the headmasters are
men and also the writers of the
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frame guidelines, the writers of the schoolbooks
are men, the responsible editors for children- and
schoolprograms are men.
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I think that men, I don't want to go into too much
detail what you have already written, what can
already be read, I actually wanted to discuss on
another level
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but I think that men set the frame in which women
are allowed to maneuver
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there you are right but it is a somewhat short sight
to mistake the performer for the person in charge,
am I right?

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>>EV: Yeah, there you're talking like a man again
when you say that.
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>>AS: Yeah, what is that "talking like a
man"? ...Yeah?
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>>EV: Excuse me please but it is a male idea! Men
believe that they set the frame
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in reality they do all the annoying work for us and
we amuse ourselves at their expense.
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Women are, so to say, bon vivants ("art of
living") at men's expenses.
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I have nothing against bon vivants but I don't like
that you use another gender for that.
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>>AS: We amuse ourselves at our ...at their
expense? At the expense of men?
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We are standing in the kitchen and we amuse
ourselves while men drudge. ...Yeah.
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>>EV: We are living at the expense of men. We are
living at the expense of men because you must not
forget that men are imprisoned most of the time
from their 16th year on till their 63rd.
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They are thrown in prison. If they have to go for a
walk for an hour, they have to lie.

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They have to say they need to go to the dentist or
they need a medical certificate.
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That's not us.
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>>AS: Miss Vilar, so I have looked at your books
very carefully yesterday and I have seen therein,
among other things, that I am, according to your
definition
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a so called public child...
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>>EV: Yes, you are.
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>>AS: Right. ...of which, I am going to explain what
it is to the viewers soon if you haven't read the
book, the most important job-legimitation is the
vagina.
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A public child is, according to your definition, one
of those women who parrots those men, who have
invented that all, who say women are not well off
and
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they need to emancipate themselves...
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>>EV: Yes.
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>>AS: ...and what we are saying and writing there
is the biggest nonsense ever and if we wouldn't be
women, we could not write that all.
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I must say, to put it mildly, I feel myself just
defamed by you. I could imagine by the way, that
according to the code of law, that it would be
possible to
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prosecute this or something like that...
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>>EV: Well, you can try! Please. ...Yeah.
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>>AS: I might imagine. Maybe I don't want that
really. What are you actually thinking when you're
writing about this?

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>>EV: Yeah, I am always happy when someone is
amused when I say something...
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>>AS: But I just want to answer to something
because I just hadn't the time to respond to it
because I actually don't like it that we're just
repeating what
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we both have in store but we should try to look
("scratch") behind some things in order
to see what's hiding there.

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When you write about me and my colleagues that
we are parrots and our most important tool is our
vagina, what are you imagining there?

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Like you have describe us now, which means the
women who give those things some thoughts,
about the situation of women in society and who
talk and write

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EV: Well, I say that for those ideas that you stand
for, you don't need neither courage nor originality
nor initiative. It is very, very simple.

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about it, that description actually fits exactly you. I
can say to you bindingly I am a journalist since 9
years, I have taken my time to establish myself,

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You have to give men what they love to read the
most, which is that they are the strongest, that
they rule the world and they are happy

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ok, that aside I don't have too many troubles at my
job, and I can really say to you that nothing is more
difficult to write and to publish than the so called

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and I think the mass media is dominated by
women.

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women topics. I can write about everything... ...but
they have...

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>>AS: But Miss Vilar, that is so funny that I hardly
can go into it. I mean, you should know, and
everybody here knows and all viewers and all those
who

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>>EV: Yes, because it's so wrong. Of course.
Nobody wants to read that.

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read newspapers know, that it is the opposite.

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>>AS: Yes, but you just said men want me so dearly
to write about it and they're making it so easy for
me.

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>>EV: Yes...
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>>AS: There is not one newspaper, I can tell you for
me, and now explain to me how this comes, am I
the big exception here, and I belong now to the
most
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exposed journalists regarding that topic, there is
not one newspaper where it would be easy for me,
if it's not accidently the year of the woman or a

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to you "Dear, good Miss Vilar, the moon is
yellow. Just look at it!"
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then you will respond again "the moon is
blue". What should I tell you then?
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>>EV: I am not concerned with your moon. I am
only interested in my moon.

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special day or someone now grants one the luxury
of writing an article, to say something at all.

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>>AS: Yeah, listen, something about your moon,
you should actually know, if you're already talking
about history it's cringeworthy nonsense that you
have

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I for example was forced to write books to be able
to write about abortion,

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written there, historical and amongst other things,
on the other levels, that

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to write about occupation from my perspective
and my books have the circulation

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for example Engels has been strongly influenced by
Flora Tristan, a woman.

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which is in relation to the PR that a male publishing
company makes.

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The same with Marx. In no way did men invented
that, that Freud was a man

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Your books on the other hand have come at a
moment where the women's liberation wave has
already started, which by the way has been
initiated by women,

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who rationalized that in a moment where it was
obvious to women that the

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>>EV: No, by men. That is a very old story.
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>>AS: Well you can sit there and say to me ten
times "the moon is blue" and I say

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malaise and the contradictions have broken up,
that today the second
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women's liberation movement has been initiated
solely by women, that

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is grotesque!

>>EV: I had a very intelligent man with whom I was


married and I would be very proud of him had he
written that book. All of my books.

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>>EV: It's supported by men.

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But he isn't interested in that topic at all.

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>>AS: It's not a Mister Sartre who invented that
but it was Beauvoir who analyzed that.

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>>AS: No, I do think that you have written it
yourself. Right?

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>>EV: Ah Beauvoir has only copied! She's the
biggest imitator who ever lived!

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>>EV: Is that so? I am pleased to hear.

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>>AS: Who did she copy then?
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>>EV: She wrote a male book and signed it with a
female name. That's not an original idea.
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>>AS: Aren't you ashamed of yourself? Miss Vilar,
you should know that there's the rumor circulating
about you that your husband has written the book.
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It's being said about every woman. It's even being
said about you. I really find it to be smeary.
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I believe that it's from you. I absolutely,
Wholeheartedly, believe that you have written that
what's standing there.
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And to repeat such a grotesque defamation
Beauvoir didn't write her book herself, you
couldn't actually aim that low, could you? Don't
you have any better ideas there?
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>>AS: Yes, I can't imagine that such a confusion,
such a disorder and such contradictions, where you
are obviously affected yourself,
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that a man could write that down. Not because he
is smarter but because he is not that affected,
because he can't be so full of contradictions.
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>>EV: I think we should get a little more concrete.
Could you tell me maybe why you think that
women are being oppressed and I will answer you
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totally concrete why I think that women are not
oppressed?
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>>AS: I will answer that in a second. I do wanna
talk about that gladly.
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But before that I want to ask you something: What
drives you personally to write these books?
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I mean, you are completely on your own with


them. You are a caller in the desert. You suddenly
say, everything is inverted and you say
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exactly the opposite of what others are saying or
the others aren't saying anything and don't have a
real opinion. How come...
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What actually motivated you to say women are
dumb, women can only keep their legs spread at
best, don't have any ambition?
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How did you acquire that disrespect for women
and that glorification of men? How did you get
there?
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>>EV: Because I can no longer listen to the
nonsense that you and your comrades are
spreading in public.
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>>AS: The nonsense?
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>>EV: Yes. The rubbish.
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>>AS: What nonsense am I talking about? Go
ahead and tell me! For example...?
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>>EV: That women are oppressed. There is no sign
that women are oppressed.
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>>AS: There isn't?
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>>EV: No.

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>>AS: Good.
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>>Ev: Not a single one. Please!
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>>AS: You had...
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>>EV: Give me an example!
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>>AS: ..., as so often, the opportunity to spread
yourself over many pages in the STERN magazine
with your UNO proclamation...
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>>EV: ...and the STERN magazine had to go to the
German Press Council because of that article. Did
you hear that as well?
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>>AS: Thank God! Yes. I have also signed that.
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>>EV: Yes. I thought so.
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>>AS: Thank God! And there it says amongst other
things, let's get to the facts now, that women let
themselves be kept by men.
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>>EV: Yes, that is correct.
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>>AS: ...that men are working for women. Now
let's be totally concrete! Let's leave the
metaphysical plane, let's talk facts and figures!

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In the Federal Republic there are, I am repeating
arguments of mine which are known and I am
giving you a chance to rebut or disagree with it,
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in the Federal Republic there are 52 Billion
wagelaborhours per year.
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According to the calculation of the domestic
economy society (registered society) in Frankfurt,
which by the way goes conform with the
calculation

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>>AS: This domestic work, as is known, it has been
recently confirmed by Miss Pross(?) again, is being
done overwhelmingly almost completely alone by
women.
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Even if you look at employed women only every
third husband is helping, employed women mind
you, for three or more chores and he only helps
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because it still stays her job in the household. Yes?
Good. That's one point.

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of other institutions in this and in other countries,
there are 45 to 47 Billion hours of free work in this
country.

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The second point: One third of wagelabor is being
done by women in this country.

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That means, work that is invested into the
household which is necessary in order for us to be
able to live at all

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Underpaid by the way, as we know. Every second
woman earns less than 600 Mark a month (average
1975 is 1817,33 Mark).

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and into the education of the children which is
necessary for the society so that it can reproduce
itself.

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>>EV: Yeah, yeah.

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A socially important task. Good. That means, that
the domestic work, the hours of the domestic work
are nearly the same as those of the wagelabor.
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>>EV: Then why are women so crazy about it?
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>>AS: May I just finish this?
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>>EV: Please. Go ahead.

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>>AS: ...and that's not because it's fun for her. At
the assembly line or as assistant.
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>>EV: I refer to the same statistics as you.
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>>AS: Good.
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>>Ev: You ain't telling me nothing new here.
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>>AS: Then let me make my conclusion. That


means, one third of the wagelabor is being done by
women, they do the whole free work, right?
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If you put those two stacks together now, you have
here 3/6 and there 3/6. 3/6 free work completely
done by women and 1/6 wagelabor done by
women
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equals two thirds. That means, in this society, in
the Federal Republic 1975 in the year of the
woman two thirds of the work in society as a whole
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is being done by women and one third by men.
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For that they get either nothing or 600 Mark and in
exceptional cases, sometimes if they almost
escaped - a male salary.
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>>EV: Yeah that calculation would bring tears to
my eyes if it was true. But it's not.
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>>AS: You refer to same facts, don't you?
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>>EV: I refer to same facts but first of all the work
of a housewife isn't free work because she gets the
salary of her husband and she manages the
payment of her husband...
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>>AS: She is being fed and given clothes if she is
lucky.
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>>EV: Yes, of course.
197

00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:08,500


>>AS: Right.
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>>EV: And not only if she is lucky but most of the
time. If she is working...
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>>AS: She has to or she can't exist.
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>>EV: ...there are, and that is important for me,
there are almost no women in the Federal Republic
who feed their family a whole live long - a man and
her children.
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They don't exist. And that's what you have to refer
to if you're talking about occupation.
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>>AS: What do you actually mean by feeding? Do
you think that a woman, I can read the numbers to
you, we can throw numbers here at each other,
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but there is a common ground on which we can
agree on, right?
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The labor hours of the housewife with children,
96% of all housewives in Germany have kids, ...it
isn't like that that those few creatures, which also
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don't exist like you describe them, which also do
their work, as if those few luxurious creatures,
there aren't so many luxurious men,
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they have become rare in this society, the upper
class isn't that big and also the woman of the rich
and priviliged man...

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>>EV: I am not talking about the upper class.
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>>AS: even she has to represent, has to be chic,
has to be sexually availabe for her husband, has a
household to lead, has to be present, has to
recharge him
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emotionally if he comes home exhausted, if he's
drained, if his career isn't going anywhere she has
to talk to him and give him courage again and has
to
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say: Oh Darling! But you are so brave! You are the
greatest! Believe me and if no one believes in you, I
will believe in you, that means,
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women are constantly giving to men and get
completely drained in the process ...don't they?
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>>EV: Aww. Those poor women. And they live so
much longer. Six and a half year longer but they
collapse from it.
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>>AS: But dear, good Miss Vilar, you just were at
the UNO. You should have learned there that the
newest statistics for the industrial countries
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say that all women with double pressures, ...well,
the tendency is that women only take a break for a
few years if they have kids and
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basically all women are employed and housewives.
90% of all housewives who live in the Federal
Republic were employed and want to be employed
again.

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...So, that women in industrial countries with
double pressures are dying five years earlier than
men. Those are the newest figures.
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>>EV: Yes but most, and that is the average value,
the average woman lives sixyears longer.
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>>AS: No.
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00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:04,000
>>EV: You cannot deny this. Those are also the
newest figures in this country.
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>>AS: I am not denying it. There are new statistics
from the UNESCO, your old ones are dated, we
have heard it long enough now.
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In the industrial countries women, employed
women with that kind of double pressure are dying
five years earlier than men. That used to be.
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>>EV: I am not at all for that double pressure. The
most grotesque thing about this feminism, about
your...
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>>AS: So what do you say on that matter that the
women are always dying earlier? You keep on
saying the lay fat and lazy on their backs and eat
their chocolates.
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>>EV: It shows that work makes you sick and that's
why men keep on dying earlier.
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00:15:29,500 --> 00:15:32,000

>>AS: I just told you women are dying earlier.


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>>EV: Some of the women who are employed die
earlier. Of course. That's a physological process.
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00:15:34,500 --> 00:15:37,000
>>AS: No. 90% of all housewives are not only
housewives.
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>>EV: But women live six and a half years longer.
That's just a fact. You can't lie that away.
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>>AS: I just told you that the newest fact is exactly
the opposite.
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>>EV: That women die five years earlier in
industrial countries that doesn't exist. It is
completely untrue. There are women who work
more and who are under more

>>AS: We will later enjoy that pleasure and the


viewers can do the same.
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>>EV: ...That's impossible. You cannot make me
believe that as a medic.
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00:16:23,500 --> 00:16:28,000
>>AS: ...Yes, you "as a medic". It's
getting old. Now I want to ask you something else.
What about your sexuality?
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You started your last book with a nice sketch. I
wanna tell it.
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It is about two lovers, right? He says to her: The
moon shines
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beautiful and so on ...well, back and forth and then
she says:

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pressure and those die earlier but the average is a
six and a half year higher life expectancy.

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Listen I have to confess something. I have a new
boyfriend. Right?

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>>AS: Good. Miss Vilar, let's not bore each other
here. What I just quoted here can be looked up in
all archives. Those are the newest UNO statistics.

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And then he says: ...This is how you start your
latest book...

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But I wanna get to sexuality now.
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>>EV: I am talking about the statistical yearbook
from the last year in Germany. Within one year the
life expectancy doesn't change about eleven and a
half years...
235
00:16:18,500 --> 00:16:21,000

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and then he says: That's nice. I am happy for you.
And then you
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interrupt that fictional dialogue and say at the
latest at this point,
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it is a treatment for a movie, the producer calls the
author and

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00:17:02,500 --> 00:17:10,000
says: Have you gone completely insane? What
have you written there? That's not a love story! No
man would do that! A decent man beats his
woman up at this point.
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>>EV: Uhum.
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>>AS: There you are right. Very well observed! And
now you still want to tell me this conception of
sexuality and "love"
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...like I do actually agree sometimes partially with
what you percieve as actual state ...partially I agree
...that's probably your secret, right?
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That mixture of half-truths and complete untruths
and then such a weird metaphysical philosophy.
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00:17:30,500 --> 00:17:35,000
>>EV: You can voice any opinion about my books
you want. That's why we are here.
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00:17:35,500 --> 00:17:37,500
>>As: Yes. That's why we're here for.
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>>EV: You just shouldn't think that I will share it
with you.
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>>AS: Yes, but now my question: Do you still want
to claim that this conception of sexuality, which
you describe yourself in that manner,
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which is namely dominated by violence among
other things ...not always, you cannot generalize,

that those are invented by women and that


women
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are in charge and they are the third party who
benefits from a division between two others?
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00:17:51,500 --> 00:17:57,000
>>EV: I say that love contains jealousy. That's
something completely different and I don't think
that if you are in love that you
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wanna share your lover with somebody else. I
don't believe that. I have a very old-fashioned
conception of love.
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00:18:02,500 --> 00:18:05,000
>>AS: We share that. We both have that.
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00:18:04,500 --> 00:18:15,000
>>EV: My last book hasn't been read at all and
indeed I was so careless to attack the journalists
and they have reacted as if stung by an adder
(tarantula).
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I sometimes have the feeling that if a journalist is
writing about me he is in a state of reduced sanity
with very few exceptions.
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00:18:21,500 --> 00:18:27,000
>>AS: But Miss Vilar! I am seeing you on all screens
and on all front pages since years and I am thinking
to myself: Does it never end?
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You are so well sponsored! All the other female
journalist can't even get a toe on the table.
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You could write such blackbooks about what's
happening also with journalists but also way more

with female journalists at the public institutions, in


the
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newspapers. I mean, you are a lucky fellow but
even now you still complain...
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>>EV: It's always the same old story. Ask how male
journalists are doing!
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>>AS: Yes. Yes. No. But what do you want? You are
one of the most famous writer in this country?
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>>EV: Journalism is one the most difficult jobs of all
and actually writing and it is nearly impossible to
earn money with that.
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>>AS: I know that but I am going back to violence
now.
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>>EV: ...and I know that I have been very fortunate.
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>>AS: I want to go back. I want to be very
penetrant. After this dialogue couldn't you have
written at the latest the producer stops at that
point
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and says: "Are you nuts!? That's not a love
story." If it had been reversed, if the man
said to the woman: "I have to confess
something - I am seeing
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someone else." Right? Then the producer
wouldn't be able to say at the latest at this point
she kicks his ass.

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>>EV: Yes that is my starting basis for the whole
book in order to show that there are two kinds of
love between man and woman and that one kind
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is being abused by the woman in order to get
sponsored. That means that the woman...
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>>AS: She who ...The part that gets beaten up
abuses the other part who...
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00:19:35,500 --> 00:19:41,000
>>EV: ...that the woman acts like an object that
needs protection.That the woman tries that the
men treats her like a child. That means like
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someone who has to be protected, someone for
whom one likes to work and she has very often and
very much success with that and that is the
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state which I wanted to clarify so that men are able
to defend themselves because men usually don't
know what's happening to them.
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>>AS: Yes. But Miss Vilar, you can ...to me...
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>>EV: And they don't want to know!
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>>As: You can of course recite the content of your
books without pause now but now I want to know
who is behind that?
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How did you reach the decision to write something
like that? Tell me something about your life!

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I will gladly tell you something about mine too.
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>>EV: I just said to you that I couldn't bear that
nonsense anymore...
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00:20:09,500 --> 00:20:10,750
>>AS: How do you live? Why?
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00:20:10,500 --> 00:20:13,000
>>EV: ...which you and your clique are writing and
that's why I wrote books.
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00:20:13,500 --> 00:20:18,000
>>AS: Well so strong... Me and my clique we have a
small book in a random series ...ah well
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00:20:15,500 --> 00:20:18,750
>>EV: Your clique spans around the whole world.
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00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:23,000
>>AS: Well, we didn't get our act together that well
yet. That will happen soon though but tell me now:
What actually motivates you?
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What actually motivates you? How do you live
actually? Are you...? Have you behaved in the same
way the women did that you described?
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Are you one of them?
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00:20:30,500 --> 00:20:30,950
>>EV: I am no exception.
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>>AS: Have you exploited men?
295
00:20:31,500 --> 00:20:33,500

>>EV: I have always said that I am no exception.


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00:20:32,500 --> 00:20:34,500
>>AS: Well, did you exploit your husband?
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>>EV: I never answer personal questions in public.
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>>AS: Ah, so you think there is a private life and a
public.
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00:20:40,500 --> 00:20:43,500
>>EV: I am not asking you about your husband or
about your children if you have any...
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00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:45,500
>>AS: You can ask me. You have a child. You have
the advantage.
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00:20:44,500 --> 00:20:46,000
>>EV: ...and I myself don't want...
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00:20:45,750 --> 00:20:47,000
>>AS: You are a mother. I am not.
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00:20:46,500 --> 00:20:56,000
>>EV: ...I don't want to be asked about that
because in my opinion I could indeed talk about my
private life but I would have to get the permission
of a partner
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who used to live with me or who lives with me now
or from my child and I don't have the right to do
that without their permission.
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00:21:03,500 --> 00:21:10,000
>>AS: Yes. I didn't actually want to go into intimate
details with you. I just want to address that if
you're writing about women today ...right?
306

00:21:10,500 --> 00:21:17,000


...then you know that this so-called private life is
that terrain where everything is happening. The
most important thing, the thing which
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concerns us in the most fundamental way are the
questions about love, partnership, motherhood
and all those things. Most of the time we are
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00:21:24,500 --> 00:21:28,000
laboring in the kitchen, we experience the most
degradation in the bedroom...
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00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:29,000
>>EV: Really?
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00:21:27,500 --> 00:21:29,500
>>AS: We do, don't we?
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>>EV: And in the bedroom we probably are
abused, right? That's what you wanted to say next.
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>>AS: Amongst other things.
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>>EV: Oh god!
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>>AS: By the way men aren't always happy too. We
both know that. I agree with you on that. Those are
the few pages on which you describe men ...
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00:21:40,500 --> 00:21:47,000
very nicely observed how damaged they are, how
grotesque they can be sometimes with their whole
career play, with the suits ... I completely agree
with you on that.
316
00:21:47,500 --> 00:21:55,000

I also don't think that the man is a free and


emancipated creature. I think that he has to
bethink himself but let's get back to the woman.
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00:21:55,500 --> 00:22:02,200
What about you? I want to allow myself to insist in
this manner anyway because I think there is no
private life: If you write all that, if you defame
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women in such manner, degrade them in such
manner, insult them in such manner, ...You have,
amongst other things, written in you last book:
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Women shouldn't make such a fuss. According to
Kinsey the coitus frequency would be two times a
week and they just should spread their legs those
times.
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>>EV: No. That's not what I said.
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00:22:18,500 --> 00:22:20,500
>>AS: I think...
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00:22:19,900 --> 00:22:26,000
>>EV: I said, yes I have this ...this quote is right but
I have said it in another context.
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00:22:25,500 --> 00:22:27,500
>>AS: I can tell you the context, too, Miss Vilar.
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>>EV: Yes, please.
325
00:22:28,500 --> 00:22:30,500
>>AS: I have looked at it very carefully.
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00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:31,750
>>EV: Please read it out loud.
327

00:22:31,500 --> 00:22:40,000


>>AS: Can you see what's written here?
"Sexual exploitation is out of the
question" ...of men by women... err...of
women by men... right?
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00:22:40,500 --> 00:22:50,000
...well, "The average coitus frequency after
ten years of marriage lies for example in the USA
at, according to Kinsey, ...at two times a week.
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Even for a frigid woman, and with any other it
wouldn't be exploitation, this isn't a pretty big deal.
330
00:22:57,500 --> 00:23:04,000
>>EV: Yeah I am talking about the frigid woman. I
am not talking about the woman who likes sex and
for her two times a week is way too less.
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All in all. Right? I'd say that.
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00:23:06,500 --> 00:23:10,000
>>AS: I don't know. I mean, we could gladly ...you
did not want to go into a private discussion ...if we
want to do that now...
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00:23:09,500 --> 00:23:12,500
>>EV: No, it's not private. I am talking in general.
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00:23:10,500 --> 00:23:13,000
>>AS: I don't know.
335
00:23:12,900 --> 00:23:15,000
>>EV: Because I think sex is something very
beautiful.
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00:23:14,500 --> 00:23:21,000
>>AS: But let's stick to your quote. I think it is so
cynical. You are assuming that a woman is a
housewife, that she is economically dependant,
337

00:23:21,500 --> 00:23:29,000


that she doesn't have autonomy, that she depends
on her familiy, that she is a housewife because she
wants to raise her children well because she
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believes in that myth of motherhood, not in that
way that she has children - a woman can have
children, that's not the point to judge that or to
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00:23:38,500 --> 00:23:45,000
condemn that but she believes in a myth because
she was willing to be there first and foremost and
this woman who is now so drained and who maybe
340
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doesn't have the right relationship to her husband,
maybe because of this dependancies, maybe
because she is so insecure and has such complexes
and
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maybe just because they aren't able to talk with
one another. Right? And those who cannot talk
with each other, I think, cannot sleep with each
other.
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Otherwise it's really perverted. Right?
343
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:01,000
>>EV: Yes. It would be possible. Theoretical it
would be possible.
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00:24:01,500 --> 00:24:07,000
>>AS: Yes it is possible. I know. In this perverted
society. This woman, who is frigid now, you are
telling her: My dear, don't make such a fuss. You
can do
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00:24:07,500 --> 00:24:14,000
it two times a week. Don't make a scene. I think
that someone who is as cynical and as mean as
you, who writes such things, I am surprised actually

346
00:24:14,500 --> 00:24:17,500
that women haven't attacked you...
347
00:24:16,500 --> 00:24:19,000
>>EV: They already have.
348
00:24:18,500 --> 00:24:23,000
>>AS: Right. Right. ...should ask you about your
private life. And now I am asking you, Miss Vilar:
How did you get there? What have you done until
now?
349
00:24:23,500 --> 00:24:27,000
How are you living? Why do you write things like
that?
350
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:33,000
>>EV: I am a writer and I describe what I see as
exactly as possible and as honest as possible. That's
my maxim.
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00:24:33,500 --> 00:24:40,000
>>AS: Yes. But I think you are first and foremost
looking at yourself because here you have
described yourself very well. You are an (female)
author about
352
00:24:40,500 --> 00:24:47,000
whom couldn't be said anything, an author let's
stick to the neutral ...to the neutral, masculine
form, if it weren't for the fact that you have
353
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a female gender. If a man namely had written
those things then nobody would care.
354
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>>EV: He would be laughed at. People would say
he had no success with women and he has to take
revenge now.
355
00:24:55,500 --> 00:24:58,000
>>AS: Right. ...Right. ...Very confused.

356
00:24:57,900 --> 00:25:01,000
>>EV: That's why only a woman could write those
books.
357
00:25:01,500 --> 00:25:05,000
>>AS: Yes. The charm of your books exists namely
in self-denial and in betrayal.
358
00:25:05,500 --> 00:25:12,000
You are renouncing your own gender, you are
renouncing yourself and you are betraying your
gender and that's why you get used by men and
that I think,
359
00:25:12,500 --> 00:25:19,000
and that's why I actually don't like to really attack
you, and that's why I actually haven't really done
that so far because somehow I think you are a
360
00:25:19,500 --> 00:25:27,000
tragic figure. Don't you know that men who use
you in the media, in the STERN magazine, on TV,
everywhere, that they use you as an excuse,
361
00:25:27,500 --> 00:25:32,000
that they insult women, that they are mean and
that they laugh about you, that they think you are
stupid, that they think you are treacherous.
362
00:25:32,500 --> 00:25:34,500
I am dead serious about that.
363
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:35,500
>>EV: Yeah.
364
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,300
>>AS: It's not polemic.
365
00:25:35,900 --> 00:25:37,900
>>Ev: You see it that way.
366

00:25:37,500 --> 00:25:40,000


>>AS: Don't you know that? Don't you see that?
367
00:25:39,500 --> 00:25:45,000
>>EV: I don't know. If you are saying that I believe
it but it doesn't touch me at all. Listen, I don't
believe that it is a betrayal of my own gender.
368
00:25:45,500 --> 00:25:54,000
Quite the opposite. I think it is a rehabilitation of
my gender what I am doing and I think if somebody
is betraying my gender then it's you and your
clique because...

377
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,500
>>AS: ...and no female leaders.
378
00:26:12,500 --> 00:26:20,000
>>EV: For example I don't get it how women can
accept something like the year of the woman. It's
unbelievable! Even if ...even if women would be
379
00:26:20,500 --> 00:26:27,000
oppressed then one shouldn't accept that because
it goes against any honor.

369
00:25:53,500 --> 00:25:56,000
>>AS: Who is my clique then?

380
00:26:27,500 --> 00:26:31,000
It's not like that, that women are oppressed but
even if that was the case

370
00:25:55,500 --> 00:25:59,000
>>EV: The feminists with whom you are together. I
am under the impression...

381
00:26:31,500 --> 00:26:35,000
it makes women so small and even more it makes
them ridiculous. I don't know.

371
00:25:58,500 --> 00:26:01,000
>>AS: The public children?

382
00:26:35,500 --> 00:26:39,000
A man who takes that year of the woman seriously
to me is a ridiculous figure.

372
00:26:00,500 --> 00:26:02,900
>>EV: Yes, the public children. I am under the
impression...
373
00:26:00,700 --> 00:26:03,000
>>AS: I felt like a grown-up.
374
00:26:03,500 --> 00:26:08,000
>>EV: I am under the impression that you are
something like the head of the German feminists
or am I wrong here?
375
00:26:07,500 --> 00:26:10,000
>>AS: You are too flattering. We actually don't
have any leaders...
376
00:26:08,500 --> 00:26:10,500
>>EV: Yes.

383
00:26:38,500 --> 00:26:40,700
>>AS: But Miss Vilar...
384
00:26:39,500 --> 00:26:43,000
>>EV: It's like he would write ...err celebrate the
year of the woman in the century of the dope.
385
00:26:42,500 --> 00:26:44,700
>>AS: But Miss Vilar ...but Miss Vilar
386
00:26:43,500 --> 00:26:48,000
>>EV: We are in the century of the fool and not in
the year of the woman.
387
00:26:47,500 --> 00:26:53,000
>>AS: Whether Miss Mller from Gelsenkirchen
accepts that the UNO in New York declares this is

the year of the woman, you know, nobody really


cares about

00:27:28,500 --> 00:27:31,000


>>AS: Of course.

388
00:26:53,500 --> 00:26:56,000
that. That is the power of men. Do you
understand? It's proclaimed...

398
00:27:29,500 --> 00:27:32,500
>>EV: ...because for this idea that I am
representing, which

389
00:26:55,500 --> 00:26:59,000
>>EV: Have you read the newspapers and
magazines the last few days?

399
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:37,000
I am representing as the only one in public, I need
as much PR as I can get.

390
00:26:58,500 --> 00:27:05,000
>>AS: First of all. Second. A second point. The only
one who has used it so far completely for her PR
that has been you. You flew (by jet) to New York
and

400
00:27:36,500 --> 00:27:41,000
>>AS: You are getting those with those books. They
did came out at the right moment.

391
00:27:05,500 --> 00:27:12,000
dramatically read out a proclamation in which you
called for the declaration of this year to be the year
of man, which is kinda amusing, so...
392
00:27:12,500 --> 00:27:15,000
>>EV: No, that's not what I have said. I said...
393
00:27:13,500 --> 00:27:17,000
>>AS: I mean, beside you no other woman in this
country did take that serious on this level.
394
00:27:16,500 --> 00:27:23,000
>>EV: I said that men should defend themselves
against this year of the woman and that they finally
should start thinking about themselves during this
year
395
00:27:23,500 --> 00:27:25,500
>>AS: They haven't done that so far, the poor
things! Yeah.
396
00:27:24,500 --> 00:27:29,000
>>EV: And of course, and I am saying that very
clearly, my trip to New York has been a PR - gag...
397

401
00:27:37,500 --> 00:27:41,700
>>EV: I am one and you are a whole battallion.
402
00:27:41,500 --> 00:27:47,000
>>AS: Yeah, I can't afford that. I would like to do
some nice PR too. Well, I can't afford that but let's
not grief about that. It's just, you earn
403
00:27:47,500 --> 00:27:50,000
your money and you deserve it then, right?
404
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:52,000
>>EV: Do you know...? Do you know...? May I...
May I say something on earning money?
405
00:27:51,500 --> 00:27:53,500
>>AS: Yeah.
406
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:56,000
>>EV: I do earn money with my books. I earn a lot
of money with my books.
407
00:27:54,500 --> 00:27:56,800
>>AS: No. No. It's granted.
408
00:27:56,500 --> 00:27:59,500
>>EV: Yes. But...

409
00:27:58,500 --> 00:28:00,500
>>AS: That's ok. I think that's right.
410
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,900
>>EV: ...you can't judge my books on that basis...
411
00:28:00,700 --> 00:28:04,000
>>AS: One can never earn too much.
412
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:05,500
>>EV: ...you have to look at the idea, if the idea is
correct or not.
413
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,000
Whether I have a mother- or a father complex,
whether I want to be a
414
00:28:09,500 --> 00:28:13,000
millionaire or something else that's not important
at all for my ideas.
415
00:28:13,500 --> 00:28:21,000
Important is what is written in my books and
important is whether that is right for you or not. I
know that it isn't right for you, for me it is and
416
00:28:21,500 --> 00:28:25,500
other people on the other hand have a different
opinion on that.
417
00:28:24,500 --> 00:28:28,000
>>As: It's not right in itself. It isn't just not right for
me, if we ...that here ...we don't have the time for
that within this time frame.
418
00:28:28,500 --> 00:28:31,000
This book is from page to page, by the way, no one
needs to buy it, it's
419
00:28:31,500 --> 00:28:36,000

all written on those two pages in the STERN


magazine, I want to say that directly, I don't want
to do any PR for this book, right?
420
00:28:36,500 --> 00:28:39,000
It sums up in twelve theses but ...here are...
421
00:28:36,900 --> 00:28:40,000
>>EV: Yeah, I think this way you're helping me the
most if you say that.
422
00:28:39,500 --> 00:28:43,000
>>AS: Well, I don't know. I don't know. Maybe one
should have said that earlier. It has been said too
late.
423
00:28:42,500 --> 00:28:44,700
>>EV: Yes. Sure.
424
00:28:44,500 --> 00:28:46,700
>>AS: Because so far we have... yeah...
425
00:28:45,500 --> 00:28:48,000
>>EV: But you didn't have any opportunity to write
so far.
426
00:28:47,500 --> 00:28:50,000
>>AS: I did. There isn't any lack...
427
00:28:48,500 --> 00:28:51,000
>>EV: You just said that.
428
00:28:50,500 --> 00:28:54,000
>>AS: No that... No, it's not exactly like that. I just
said it's not that easy. Wait a minute!
429
00:28:53,500 --> 00:28:58,000
>>EV: Your colleagues, the other oppressed
(female) journalists have given their best to hush
up the book or to roast it...
430
00:28:56,500 --> 00:28:59,000

>>AS: Right. Right.


431
00:28:58,500 --> 00:29:01,000
>>EV: ...so you can be satisfied.
432
00:29:00,500 --> 00:29:06,000
>>AS: We were wrong because I honestly must say
when this started three years ago I thought to
myself, well for heaven's sake, what's up with this
433
00:29:06,500 --> 00:29:14,000
confused stuff, you don't need to respond to that,
you would just be advertising it but it now seems
like you came just in time for a society,
434
00:29:14,500 --> 00:29:18,000
that thinks some ideas that came from our corner
stink and that you are
435
00:29:18,500 --> 00:29:21,000
propagandized to such an extent so that indeed
you don't have to deal with
436
00:29:21,500 --> 00:29:25,000
your so-called ideas, that's not what I'm here for,
but I think one has to
437
00:29:25,500 --> 00:29:30,000
deal with the fact that you are given such space
with those stories in all
438
00:29:30,500 --> 00:29:34,000
the media and in the public in general. First of all.
And secondly one
439
00:29:34,500 --> 00:29:40,000
finally needs to stop jesting, I mean I prefer
laughing instead of being dramatic too, that fits my
temper better...
440
00:29:39,500 --> 00:29:42,500
>>EV: Are you sure?

441
00:29:41,500 --> 00:29:47,000
>>AS: Yes, I am very sure about that. About that I
am very sure. But this isn't the moment. I really
think that your books, I have been through them
again
442
00:29:47,500 --> 00:29:51,000
systematically yesterday, because I wanted to
know with whom I'm dealing,
443
00:29:51,500 --> 00:30:00,000
I think that your books are so outrageous, such an
insult, so infamous, that today I am really
contemplating if women shouldn't inform
themselves, should
444
00:30:00,500 --> 00:30:05,000
check if there can be filed a lawsuit against you
because, and that's what I
445
00:30:05,500 --> 00:30:10,000
want to ask you now, if you would replace the
word 'woman' in your books by
446
00:30:10,500 --> 00:30:16,500
the word 'jew' or 'negroe' then your writings would
be fitting (ripe) for the "Strmer" (right
extremist newspaper in Nazi-Germany). You are
not only...
447
00:30:15,500 --> 00:30:19,500
>>EV: You are talking such a mad nonsense. You
above all knows that best.
448
00:30:18,500 --> 00:30:22,000
>>AS: That's not a mad...! You are... You aren't just
a sexist, you are also a facist.
449
00:30:21,500 --> 00:30:24,000
>>EV: Yes, is that so?
450
00:30:23,500 --> 00:30:30,000

>>AS: I want to say that and that is a very serious


accusation and looking at your personal situation it
weighs even more heavy but I want to say that,
yes.
451
00:30:29,500 --> 00:30:36,000
>>EV: I think your argument is a typical facist
argument. That's how the facists argued at that
time. With such words. I think we're not getting
anywhere this way...
452
00:30:35,500 --> 00:30:38,000
>>AS: With what word? With the word sexist?
453
00:30:37,500 --> 00:30:44,000
>>EV: No. By using the most extreme formulation
to add a label to someone.
454
00:30:42,500 --> 00:30:46,000
>>AS: That's not extreme. I am also not the first
person to say this. It's not
extreme at all.
455
00:30:45,500 --> 00:30:48,000
>>EV: Yeah, shall we...
456
00:30:46,500 --> 00:30:50,000
>>AS: One can prove that with your book ...if you
say for example all women are
457
00:30:50,500 --> 00:30:54,000
stupid, all women let men work for them, all
women do this and that, as well

00:31:07,500 --> 00:31:10,000


have been rejected in certain areas.
461
00:31:09,500 --> 00:31:13,000
>>EV: Ah stop it already with those ridiculous
comparisons! Let's talk concrete here!
462
00:31:11,500 --> 00:31:14,000
>>AS: What do you mean by ridiculous? It's the
same with women.
463
00:31:13,500 --> 00:31:21,000
>>EV: Let's talk really concrete. I want to tell you
some disadvantages for men now and you should
tell me what you think about them:
464
00:31:21,500 --> 00:31:25,000
Why do men get to retire three years later than
women with the exception of public servants?
465
00:31:25,500 --> 00:31:28,000
>>AS: Five, right?
466
00:31:26,500 --> 00:31:30,000
>>EV: Three years. According to the new law three
years.
467
00:31:28,500 --> 00:31:30,500
>>AS: I'll happily accept a correction.
468
00:31:30,300 --> 00:31:33,000
>>EV: There's the flexible age limit now.

458
00:30:54,500 --> 00:31:00,000
has been said all jews are cheap, all jews just make
business with money,

469
00:31:32,500 --> 00:31:35,000
>>AS: Well, I suppose that you add motherhood to
the equation, right?

459
00:31:00,500 --> 00:31:07,000
you know very well, I probably don't need to tell
you, that those were, amongst other things,
cultural results, that for example jews or blacks

470
00:31:33,500 --> 00:31:36,000
>>EV: Is that so?

460

471
00:31:35,500 --> 00:31:38,000
>>AS: You embarass me. I really don't know.

472
00:31:37,500 --> 00:31:41,000
>>EV: At that age you really believe that with 62
years of age you still have to take care of children?
473
00:31:40,500 --> 00:31:44,000
>>AS: That in the end everything is being added
together. I don't know what law makers thought at
that moment.
474
00:31:43,500 --> 00:31:46,000
>>EV: Well, that's one disadvantage so far which I
am talking about.
475
00:31:45,500 --> 00:31:48,000
>>AS: And you want to cancel that? What do you
mean that everybody should retire at 65 or 60?
476
00:31:47,500 --> 00:31:52,000
>>EV: I really don't care. I want equality for man
and woman.
477
00:31:51,500 --> 00:31:57,000
>>AS: I would care. I'd like that too but I'd say I
want retirement at 60 then. I wouldn't advocate
the negative adjustment, and now you will talk
about
478
00:31:57,500 --> 00:32:01,000
the military service, but instead the positve
adjustment.
479
00:32:00,500 --> 00:32:04,000
>>EV: I said, I wouldn't care. I said, I wouldn't care.
I am not in the position to decide that.
480
00:32:03,500 --> 00:32:06,000
>>AS: You don't care. Alright.
481
00:32:05,500 --> 00:32:09,000
>>EV: I just think that it is very unfair that men get
to retire three years later than women and that's
why...

482
00:32:08,500 --> 00:32:12,000
>>AS: I mean, they only work one third of the time.
I mean, actually women should retire one third of
the time earlier.
483
00:32:11,500 --> 00:32:15,000
>>EV: You really won't get away with this naive
fallacy when dealing with me.
484
00:32:15,500 --> 00:32:23,000
Another disadvantage: For example that men have
to do military service or alternative service while
women don't need to.
485
00:32:23,500 --> 00:32:30,000
That you just, so to say, erase 15 months of their
lives while women can follow their career plans.
What do you think about that?
486
00:32:29,500 --> 00:32:33,500
>>AS: 15? - Isn't it one year?
487
00:32:32,500 --> 00:32:34,900
>>EV: 15 month.
488
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,000
>>AS: Alright. I thought 15 years for a moment. I
almost said: For heaven's sake! Another reform!
489
00:32:36,500 --> 00:32:39,000
Yeah, I can tell you what I think about that. First of
all women get
490
00:32:39,500 --> 00:32:42,000
the children on their own and pause for years. First
of all. So I think
491
00:32:42,500 --> 00:32:48,000
that this is compensated by the motherhoodthing.
Not nullified but women
492

00:32:48,500 --> 00:32:51,000


accomplish quite a lot for society because the
society can't ...itself,

503
00:33:26,500 --> 00:33:29,000
>>EV: Me neither. What do you think?

493
00:32:51,500 --> 00:32:54,000
...can't exist any further if someone isn't taking
care of reproduction.

504
00:33:28,500 --> 00:33:31,000
>>AS: ...young men have to go there. So I am not
going to be grotesque and say

494
00:32:54,500 --> 00:32:58,000
The woman is, in biological terms, solely capable of
pregnancy, nine month,

505
00:33:31,500 --> 00:33:35,000
women should go into the barracks too but I can
say at this point I hope

495
00:32:58,500 --> 00:33:03,000
the woman has been sentenced to social
motherhood on her own, which means

506
00:33:35,500 --> 00:33:38,000
that the young men don't need to go into the
barracks either. There I am,

496
00:33:03,500 --> 00:33:08,000
she raises ...she above all raises the children so
those 15 month don't weigh that heavy.

507
00:33:38,500 --> 00:33:41,000
just like you, for equality. There we fully, fully
agree with each other.

497
00:33:07,500 --> 00:33:10,000
>>EV: Really?

508
00:33:40,500 --> 00:33:48,000
>>EV: Yes but it's just that society, especially the
voters want ...do want
this social basic order...

498
00:33:09,500 --> 00:33:12,000
>>AS: And also, at this point, second part of the
answer, I want to respond to
499
00:33:12,500 --> 00:33:17,000
you with what I said to the reform of the pension
...of...of the retirement pensions, to the age limit
500
00:33:17,500 --> 00:33:20,000
>>EV: ...also because of the kids.
501
00:33:19,500 --> 00:33:23,000
>>AS: There I'd say as well ...There I'd say as well I
prefer the positive adjustment instead of the
negative adjustment.
502
00:33:23,500 --> 00:33:27,000
I actually don't like the military that much and I
think it's very sad that the...

509
00:33:47,500 --> 00:33:51,000
>>AS: ...the voters, yes...
510
00:33:50,500 --> 00:33:54,000
>>EV: ...in which we are living here in West
Germany and I think one has to respect that.
511
00:33:53,500 --> 00:33:57,000
>>AS: I don't have ...I don't mind the social basic
order. We are on the same ground there.
0:33:57.500,0:34:01.000
>>EV: Yes and I think that the children aren't an
argument because if someone
512
00:34:01,500 --> 00:34:05,000
has to suffer because children are being born then
it is the man and not

513
00:34:05,500 --> 00:34:09,000
the woman because if a man becomes a father it
means that he already got, so to speak,
514
00:34:09,500 --> 00:34:13,000
the ticket in his pocket for live-long jailtime
because it means that
515
00:34:13,500 --> 00:34:18,000
he can never stop, if he has at least some sort of
conscience, until
516
00:34:18,500 --> 00:34:23,000
he finally retires. So men have to sacrifice much
more when children are born as women.
517
00:34:22,500 --> 00:34:25,000
>>AS: Yeah. With what... With what doesn't he
stop? With what doesn't he stop?
518
00:34:24,500 --> 00:34:27,800
>>Ev: With work.
519
00:34:27,500 --> 00:34:30,000
>>AS: Well, for example there's an estimate of a
federal German court,
520
00:34:30,500 --> 00:34:33,000
since we like to talk so much about our federal
German ground on which
521
00:34:33,500 --> 00:34:37,000
we are moving, that housework should actually be
paid, a fictional salary
522
00:34:37,500 --> 00:34:43,000
of 1800 Mark. Women never stop with that kind of
work. Twenty years for a
523
00:34:43,500 --> 00:34:48,000
child. It takes twenty years to raise a child. Ok, I am
not saying that men don't do anything...

524
00:34:47,500 --> 00:34:52,000
>>EV: Thank God! I wouldn't be surprised anymore
though.
525
00:34:51,500 --> 00:34:54,000
>>As: ...and the phenomenon, which you ...which
you are describing,
526
00:34:54,500 --> 00:34:58,000
you are somewhat right about that. It is true that
women and men alike are
527
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:03,000
being made unhappy with this conception of
parenthood, of family, so that
528
00:35:03,500 --> 00:35:08,000
...this fixation on each other, that women want to
have children maybe even
529
00:35:08,500 --> 00:35:12,000
if they don't want them that much or something,
that they think they need to
530
00:35:12,500 --> 00:35:15,000
do achieve that and that men need to make a
career then and this whole
531
00:35:15,500 --> 00:35:18,300
pressure, you are somewhat right about that, it's
just so that I now take
532
00:35:18,500 --> 00:35:21,000
the liberty... This all is conceded. It exists. There is
machismo, there is a
533
00:35:21,500 --> 00:35:25,000
suffering from the male role, I know a lot of men
who look into that subject
534
00:35:25,500 --> 00:35:30,000

subtly, right? But I just believe that in this society,


as I have said,
535
00:35:30,500 --> 00:35:36,000
man and woman are victims, but that women are
the victims' victims, that women are another step
lower...
536
00:35:35,500 --> 00:35:39,000
>>EV: I know that you believe that.
537
00:35:38,500 --> 00:35:41,000
>>AS: ...that the housewife, that the wife of a
worker, when he comes home after
538
00:35:41,500 --> 00:35:45,000
laboring the whole day and got insulted by his
foreman, that he goes home
539
00:35:45,500 --> 00:35:49,000
and then says: "What?! Here! Why isn't my
food on the table?!" and then
540
00:35:49,500 --> 00:35:52,000
there will be hell to pay, that she is even more
dependant, that she is
541
00:35:52,500 --> 00:35:55,000
even worse off. That's what it's all about. It's not
about saying men are
542
00:35:55,500 --> 00:35:59,000
doing fine. It's about saying that women are
additionally a victim of a very
543
00:35:59,500 --> 00:36:03,000
specific discrimination and not only does society
profit from that
544
00:36:03,500 --> 00:36:07,000
in a very abstract way, it does too because it's
getting the children

545
00:36:07,500 --> 00:36:11,000
delivered for free and many things more, right?
...and underpaid work...
546
00:36:10,500 --> 00:36:13,000
>>EV: The society consists of men and women. You
shouldn't forget that.
547
00:36:12,500 --> 00:36:16,000
>>AS: Right. The society in an abstract manner.
Also every single man does
548
00:36:16,500 --> 00:36:20,000
profit from that. Every man that sits and reads his
newspaper while his
549
00:36:20,500 --> 00:36:24,000
wife is washing the dishes. It's so trivial. So
ordinary.
550
00:36:23,500 --> 00:36:26,000
>>EV: Now I am going to tell you about a newer
research in Germany...
551
00:36:25,500 --> 00:36:29,000
>>AS: Yes. With source please!
552
00:36:28,500 --> 00:36:31,000
>>EV: ...published one year ago in the news
magazine DER SPIEGEL and
553
00:36:31,500 --> 00:36:34,000
according to it the thing with the double pressure
of the employed women is just a myth and
554
00:36:34,500 --> 00:36:41,000
indeed up to a big percentage rate because it
emerged that men who have a
555
00:36:41,500 --> 00:36:45,000
employed woman ...first of all, nobody has double
pressure because the

556
00:36:45,500 --> 00:36:49,000
children are not under the care of the woman who
goes to work during the day,
557
00:36:49,500 --> 00:36:53,000
double pressure is already the wrong word, but
that men who have an
558
00:36:53,500 --> 00:37:00,000
employed wife have to do 85% extra work just like
the woman. They may indeed not always wash the
dishes and so on...
559
00:36:59,500 --> 00:37:03,000
>>AS: But Miss Vilar!
560
00:37:02,500 --> 00:37:05,000
>>EV: ...but they do the gardening, they wash the
car, they also do
561
00:37:05,500 --> 00:37:09,000
extra work which is important for the duration of
the family.
562
00:37:08,500 --> 00:37:11,000
>>AS: But Miss Vilar the garden is being dug over
once a year in spring and
563
00:37:11,500 --> 00:37:14,800
the dishes are washed every day. Please stop with
that monkey business! And maybe they also
change a tire twice a year!
564
00:37:14,500 --> 00:37:18,000
>>EV: I am sorry. That is an inquiry which hasn't
been made by me but somebody else.
565
00:37:17,500 --> 00:37:21,000
>>AS: Yes. The two largest inquiries were made by
Helge Pross (?), right?
566

00:37:20,500 --> 00:37:22,000


>>EV: Yeah. Right.
567
00:37:21,500 --> 00:37:24,000
>>AS: One, a year ago on housewives
568
00:37:23,500 --> 00:37:26,000
>>EV: Yeah, that is one...
569
00:37:24,500 --> 00:37:27,000
>>AS: ... and another one, three years ago, on
employed women.
570
00:37:26,500 --> 00:37:29,000
>>EV: ...that is one of those inquiries.
571
00:37:27,500 --> 00:37:29,800
>>AS: I know the numbers. We can both check
them again.
572
00:37:29,500 --> 00:37:32,000
>>EV: Yeah. Me too.
573
00:37:31,500 --> 00:37:35,000
>>AS: As I have said, one third of the husbands
doesn't help their employed women at all, right?
574
00:37:34,500 --> 00:37:37,000
>>EV: They do something else instead.
575
00:37:36,500 --> 00:37:38,000
>>AS: No.
576
00:37:37,500 --> 00:37:40,000
>>EV: As I have said, they take care of their car...
577
00:37:39,500 --> 00:37:41,000
>>AS: So what are they doing?
578
00:37:40,500 --> 00:37:44,000
>>EV: ...you need that too.

579
00:37:43,500 --> 00:37:46,000
>>AS: Maybe they go out for a walk or lift
dumbbells or something. That may be possible.
580
00:37:44,500 --> 00:37:47,000
>>EV: They take care of the children...
581
00:37:46,500 --> 00:37:48,000
>>AS: No. No.
582
00:37:47,500 --> 00:37:49,800
>>EV: ...they take care of the tax return, they go to
authorities, that is...
583
00:37:49,500 --> 00:37:52,000
>>AS: Miss Vilar...
584
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:53,000
>>EV: I am sorry. That is statistically proven. That's
not something I am making up here now.
585
00:37:52,500 --> 00:37:55,000
>>AS: You are making that up! One moment! I can
even see it in front of my
586
00:37:55,500 --> 00:37:59,000
eyes that research, ok? Doesn't help at all ...one
third of the husbands
587
00:37:59,500 --> 00:38:02,000
doesn't help at all neither in the household nor
with the education of the
588
00:38:02,500 --> 00:38:05,000
children. One third helps with one or two tasks like
going down into the
589
00:38:05,500 --> 00:38:09,000
basement to fetch some beer or to dry up the
dishes. One third helps with

590
00:38:09,500 --> 00:38:15,000
three or more tasks. I want to ask you to pay
attention to the word 'helps',
591
00:38:15,500 --> 00:38:19,000
right? Best case, if men are nice, and nice men do
exist, then they will
592
00:38:19,500 --> 00:38:23,000
help their wife. They never learned it differently.
That's correct now.
593
00:38:23,500 --> 00:38:26,000
So they help their wife. They are gracious and help.
By the way if they're
594
00:38:26,500 --> 00:38:29,000
not gracious and they don't feel like doing it, they
won't do it, right?
595
00:38:29,500 --> 00:38:32,000
The woman depends on their mercy. But it always
says men are helping women.
596
00:38:32,500 --> 00:38:35,000
This all remains women's work. A woman can work
eight hours a day in the
597
00:38:35,500 --> 00:38:39,000
office or somewhere else, she still is responsible.
She hears the
598
00:38:39,500 --> 00:38:43,000
ambulance sirens outside, if she has a child at
home, and thinks: Hopefully that's not my child!
599
00:38:43,500 --> 00:38:46,000
She is conditioned this way, and you have
described that also, you don't
600
00:38:46,500 --> 00:38:49,000

argue in a biologistic manner, right? You are not


saying, if I understood
601
00:38:49,500 --> 00:38:54,000
you correctly, "That is so by nature"
but you're saying: "This is our
education." Right?
602
00:38:53,500 --> 00:38:56,000
>>EV: Yeah. Of course.
603
00:38:55,500 --> 00:38:58,000
>>AS: We have been drilled to be man and woman.
The difference is, where we
604
00:38:58,500 --> 00:39:03,000
differ, I say the man profits from this drill and you
say the woman profits from that drill, right?
Correct?
605
00:39:02,500 --> 00:39:06,000
>>EV: I'm not only saying it, I am also proving it.
606
00:39:05,500 --> 00:39:09,000
>>AS: But how, dear good woman?! You are not
proving it! You swim against the
607
00:39:08,500 --> 00:39:15,000
tide on your own and the macabre thing is that you
can proclaim this light-heartedly and you even
seem to believe it yourself.
608
00:39:14,500 --> 00:39:19,000
>>EV: Yeah, there are obviously still a few other
people who believe that beside me.
609
00:39:19,500 --> 00:39:22,000
>>AS: Yes, but who? I am convinced to the core
that your book is read by
610
00:39:22,500 --> 00:39:25,000
...let's say about three quarters by men ...deeply
...is bought

611
00:39:25,500 --> 00:39:27,000
...to the core. I don't know if there have been any
studies.
612
00:39:26,500 --> 00:39:28,000
>>EV: You...
613
00:39:27,500 --> 00:39:30,000
>>AS: I can't imagine that women are reading this!
614
00:39:29,500 --> 00:39:31,000
>>EV: You can't?
615
00:39:30,500 --> 00:39:32,000
>>AS: Nah.
616
00:39:31,500 --> 00:39:33,000
>>EV: I know a few who have read it.
617
00:39:32,500 --> 00:39:34,000
>>AS: "A few"? Ok.
618
00:39:33,500 --> 00:39:36,000
>>EV: Who even liked it...
619
00:39:35,500 --> 00:39:38,000
>>AS: That's interesting.
620
00:39:37,500 --> 00:39:40,000
>>EV: ...you know those are not women who are in
the public view, no journalist, but women who are
at home...
621
00:39:39,500 --> 00:39:42,000
>>AS: Yeah, I know those as well.
622
00:39:41,500 --> 00:39:44,000
>>EV: ...and who know that they have the better
part in life...

623
00:39:43,500 --> 00:39:45,000
>>AS: Yeah.
624
00:39:44,500 --> 00:39:48,000
>>EV: ...and what I accuse women of is not only
that they aren't doing anything or that they abuse
a certain situation...
625
00:39:47,500 --> 00:39:50,000
>>As: But I am telling you: They work!
626
00:39:49,500 --> 00:39:53,000
>>EV: That is easy because they are women. What I
accuse women of is that
627
00:39:53,500 --> 00:39:58,000
above all they always whine and I think that is
unworthy. This... This...
628
00:39:58,500 --> 00:40:00,000
>>AS: Who is whining?
629
00:39:59,500 --> 00:40:02,000
>>EV: ...This can't be.
630
00:40:01,500 --> 00:40:04,000
>>AS: Whom did you hear complaining so far?
Where has one actually hear a woman whine?
631
00:40:03,500 --> 00:40:08,000
>>EV: So there are no women who whine? No
women who are complaining? According to you?
632
00:40:07,500 --> 00:40:14,000
>>AS: No, women so far have only complained
individually. Women could cry to their mother or
to their friend...
633
00:40:13,500 --> 00:40:17,000
>>EV: That's what I mean, that individual
complaining to the man.

634
00:40:16,500 --> 00:40:19,000
>>AS: ...but it has been said to each woman that
this would be her very own
635
00:40:19,500 --> 00:40:22,000
private problem, right? That she is a bimbo who
isn't satisfied with that.
636
00:40:22,500 --> 00:40:26,000
Until now, until a few years ago, it never has been
said in public that this
637
00:40:26,500 --> 00:40:30,000
is a social problem, that there is a system behind it,
that all women, if they
638
00:40:30,500 --> 00:40:33,000
just sit at home looking at their four walls around
them and wash the same
639
00:40:33,500 --> 00:40:38,000
dishes everyday are not satisfied, are frustrated,
have complexes, have minority complexes...
640
00:40:37,500 --> 00:40:42,000
>>EV: No, two thirds of all women claim to be
happy, of all housewives. You probably know this
inquiry as well.
641
00:40:41,500 --> 00:40:45,000
>>AS: The same study. Yeah. Right. Even though,
you have to look closely here
642
00:40:45,500 --> 00:40:50,000
as well, Miss Vilar, this is relative. If you go and ask
someone: "Are you
643
00:40:50,500 --> 00:40:53,000
happy?" First of all it is a question that
implies a certain expectation,
644
00:40:53,500 --> 00:40:58,000

you surely are unlikely to say, if you can't escape


the situation, "I am unhappy!" First of
all.

random standards that have to be established


again or some frames you put

645
00:40:57,500 --> 00:41:01,000
>>EV: That is a theory of yours.

655
00:41:34,500 --> 00:41:37,000
around people whether they fit in them or not and
I just can tell you I

646
00:41:00,500 --> 00:41:04,000
>>AS: Secondly. Secondly, that is a theory but now
comes something ...now comes

656
00:41:37,500 --> 00:41:41,000
have spoken very, very much with women in my
life, and especially in the last

647
00:41:04,500 --> 00:41:07,000
a hard fact: If you say "I am happy!"
then you have to let the people

657
00:41:41,500 --> 00:41:44,000
years, and I never had any interest in suggesting
them something and if you

648
00:41:06,500 --> 00:41:12,000
define what they think happiness means and
women are used to be being humble. Women
already say...

658
00:41:44,500 --> 00:41:47,000
let those women, who answer you spontaneously
"Yes, I am happy!", talk for

649
00:41:11,500 --> 00:41:16,000
>>EV: Women have the right to their own
definition of happiness and if they
650
00:41:16,500 --> 00:41:19,000
think of themselves as happy then I respect that
and then I say 'In God's
651
00:41:19,500 --> 00:41:24,000
name! They think of themselves as happy, so they
are happy. I can't dictate to anybody how he has to
define happiness.
652
00:41:23,500 --> 00:41:27,000
>>AS: Yes, but Miss Vilar who is dictating
something to whom? I, for example, never have
653
00:41:27,500 --> 00:41:31,000
dictated women anything and I think nothing is
more cynical than some
654
00:41:31,500 --> 00:41:34,000

659
00:41:47,500 --> 00:41:51,000
half an hour then you will hear things. Then you
will notice that that
660
00:41:51,500 --> 00:41:54,000
what those poor women, and I'm not saying
"poor women" in a pitiful way,
661
00:41:54,500 --> 00:41:58,000
that is our situation, call "happiness"
isn't all that much.
662
00:41:57,500 --> 00:42:01,000
>>EV: Let the men talk too, then you'll see what
comes out of that.
663
00:42:00,500 --> 00:42:04,000
>>AS: That is your privilege. You are talking with
men. I take the liberty of
664
00:42:04,500 --> 00:42:08,000
talking with the other half of humanity now. It has
been heard far too less

665
00:42:08,500 --> 00:42:11,000
so far and they are also 51%, too. We can talk
about that too.
666
00:42:10,500 --> 00:42:14,000
>>EV: I talk to women sometimes too. You might
be surprised.
667
00:42:13,500 --> 00:42:17,000
>>AS: Yeah? Well.