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Roy Warden Unlawful entry is NOT "immigration.

" The entrants complained of in the cartoon "immigrated" lawfully according to procedures set forth in law at that time. Mexican Illegal Aliens are JUST THAT, Illegal Aliens, no matter how many times you lefties try to change their legal status by calling them "Immigrants." ____________________ DemMessage comical. CenterAz Roy: Your revisionism is

There were virtually NO laws stopping European immigration until the 1880's, but there was a wave of

anti- "Southern European" (read Italian) immigration shortly thereafter. Irishmen could become immediate citizens by signing up for the Civil War but New England bluebloods opposed Catholics and Jews immigrating. Congress passed the "Chinese Exclusion Act" to keep Chinese from immigrating. Immigration has ALWAYS met with nativist opposition, no matter how you nativists try to cloak it. How long ago were your ancestors immigrants, Roy? You don't look Tohono O'otham in your picture. ____________________ Roy Warden YOU STILL don't get it! In America, We the People make our own laws and we expect those who wish to come here to respect it! Historically, those immigrants who came for whom some Americans complained about in the cartoon (and who cares that they complained) STILL CAME here WITH the permission of the American people as set forth in the laws in place at that time. Illegal Aliens do not come here with permission. They break the law and just show up, without any permission. And then YOU sensational people, YOU their left wing, Pro Raza supporters, proclaim: Today we march, tomorrow we vote! Viva La Raza! My ancestors came here legally, from Germany, England, Scotland, and Wales, etc.. They came with the permission of the American people who had come here



You just dont GET it. We follow the rules, YOU don't. And thats why I call you SILLY. ____________________ DemMessage CenterAz First off, Roy, my ancestors were here for the American Revolution, but even so, they weren't the first ones here. None of us asked the Native Americans whether or not their laws allowed us to settle here, so get off your high horse. I'll just bet your ancestors did not send a letter to the American people asking permission, they didn't "follow the rules," they JUST SHOWED UP, so again, get off your high horse. Your use of the word "immigrant" as a pejorative shows your ignorance. Your ancestors were immigrants. The word "Immigrant" means a person who leaves one country to settle permanently in another. It does not connote good or bad intentions, and it does not assign a value. So saying these people are not immigrants shows your lack of vocabulary skills. Finally, though trying to educate your closed mind is a waste of time, if anyone ever says "Tomorrow we vote," you should assume that whoever is saying it has the legal right to vote. Since there are virtually NO DOCUMENTED CASES in Arizona of people ineligible to vote actually casting votes (There was a case a year or two of a foreigner voting... he was a Canadian snowbird), you're making up stuff to worry about. ____________________

Roy Warden "Immigrant" is a word which designates a legal status; my earliest ancestors WERE here for the revolutionary war. After the war, WE the People set up a new government with a set of laws WE the People agreed upon. Subsequently; WE the People modified or changed OUR laws whenever it became necessary. Mexican Illegal Aliens now here have violated the law that WE the People wrote for ourselves. Yes, WHITE men took the land, by force, from the indigenous, who in turn took the land from those who came here before them. Genetically speaking perhaps as many as TWO different groups PRECEDED the group we now call "Indian." Each group "Stole" or took by force the land that once had been occupied by others. You "LEFTIES" just LOVE to change the clear meaning of words, to suit your political purposes. To call an "Illegal Alien" (precise legal terminology denoting legal status) an "undocumented worker" is like calling a rapist an "unsuccessful suitor!" You "LEFTIES" think you can change reality by using different terminology. Which is WHY I call you "SILLY!" ____________________ DemMessage CenterAz ""Immigrant" is a word which designates a legal status." No, it's not. Look up immigrant in the dictionary, Roy, if you don't believe it.

It does not designate ANY status, which is why the word legal or illegal has to be connected to it to make that connotation. "After the war, WE the People set up a new government with a set of laws WE the People agreed upon." No, WE didn't, unless you're only talking about property-owning white men. Indentured servants, non-land-owners, employees, women, slaves, Native Americans and many other groups were not included in the "WE" you're referring to. "WE the People modified or changed OUR laws whenever it became necessary." Exactly, and every time a law was changed there was someone like YOU whining about how things ought to remain the same. The laws YOU are trying to protect are laws that are in obvious need of change. When a farmer cannot hire seasonal workers, when employers can skirt the law and purposely hire (without real penalty) people not authorized to be here, and when immigrants must wait 13 years to apply for citizenship, the laws must change. And they will. Because WE the majority will always have more say than YOU. ____________________ Roy Warden You "Left Wingers" simply want Open Border Policy, to create an Hispanic ethnic plurality (majority) here in the South West, so you can effect your "Raza Revolution" or at least have a large population base so you can continue to appeal for their votes on the basis of race and ethnicity:

In other words: RACISM no different than the message promulgated by White Supremacists, or Nazis. YEAH, the "White" property owners set up the laws embodied in our Constitution. YEAH the White people failed to deal with the inevitable issues arising out of slavery. EVENTUALLY the White people DID deal with the inequalities THEY had created by fighting and dying in very large numbers the Civil War. And after the Civil Rights Movement of the Sixties it no longer WAS a government Of, By and For White People. And today it is a Government Of, By, and For people of ALL Colors: White, Black, Brown, Yellow, etc. And it is the law of all these White, Black, Brown and Yellow people which says, "You MUST have OUR permission before you may enter OUR country!" And it is precisely THIS law that you Left Wingers have encouraged the Mexican Poor to break, by "aiding and abetting, enticing and inviting" their entry. You Left Wingers helped the Arizona "Fat Cats" DRIVE down the value of labor, so that Hispanic citizens lost their jobs to Mexican Illegals willing to work twice as hard for 1/2 as much money. You Left Wingers have BETRAYED the lesson of history established by Cesar Chavez, who ACTIVELY fought against Illegal Mexican Aliens who were undercutting the wages he wanted to establish his American Farm Workers Union.

You Left Wingers have created immeasurable misery for millions of folks! And you are too intellectually deficient to realize it! And THAT'S Why I call you "SILLY!" Lets make this simple: tell me how, with a straight face, you can look at a picture of Cesar Chavez and not realize that by helping to supply endless impoverished labor you BETRAYED his dream of decent wages for farm workers, and put more money into the pockets of the "Fat Cats?" ____________________

DemMessage CenterAz Roy: I'm pretty sick of the way you lump me in with everyone you despise. I'm not an open border person, I'm not La Raza, I'm not You Left Winger. I have done nothing to betray Caesar Chavez, and I'm not aiding, enticing or encouraging anybody to enter the United States. People have warned me for months that you are a nut case and that I should avoid engaging you in conversation because you are mentally unstable. As I'm more open minded than many, I let you friend me and have allowed you to post freely on all my threads. But I've decided it's time to draw the line. I don't need to put up with your convoluted illogic and your incessant pigeon-holing to accommodate your threadbare hold on political reality. I don't need revisionist history lessons, confused economic lectures and uncivil civics lessons from someone who can't get along with anyone.

Best of luck fighting against whatever it is you think you're fighting against. But here's a life tip: Being against everything is not the same as actually being FOR anything. Peace out.