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E31 Parts Value Questions

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Thread: E31 Parts Value Questions


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Yesterday,

01:47 PM

#1
Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 3,010 My Cars: '00 528iT/5 & 2003 M3

e30polak
Member

E31 Parts Value Questions


Hi Everyone, So I've had a monster 8 series project idea for the longest time that I think I'm finally going to take on. What is the value of a good running, low mileage M70, with a strong transmission, and a matching cluster? How much is a clean, complete interior worth, including the dash and the center console? Reason I'm asking is I basically want to take the 8 series shell and start over with it. I want to save a good amount of weight, mainly from the interior, motor, transmission, and possibly the entire suspension. The plan is to get a fiberglass mold of the factory dash and center console, put in 2 bucket seats, custom aluminum door panels, lightweight after market carpet, all sound deadening removed, etc. I don't want to go full race car, but just a very lightweight, minimalistic E31, that's both streetable and ready for the track. For suspension I would either switch to a complete E46 M3 suspension, with subframes, or an E9x non-M set-up. I think I can safely get the E31 down to 3,500lbs or less, which is around the weight of both the e46 m3 or the e9x, so the suspension should work well for my application. I would get a

custom quick ratio manual hot-rod style steering rack and pinion, and probably an E36 or E46 M3 steering column. Motor wise I will either go LSX or big turbo S52. Essentially I want to build the next modded GTR, C6 Z06, 997 Turbo killer for 1/2 mile airstrip events. But I also want the car to be an animal on the road course. Any help would on realistic part values would be much appreciated. I essentially want to build something similar to the red 8 series race car that's powered by the supercharged aluminum m52, but heavier and with MUCH more power. I'm no noob to building highly modified/motor swapped/forced induction cars, and money isn't too big of a concern. I'm not here to waste anyone's time, just wanted some reliable and factual input from the 8 series community! Thanks in advance!
Last edited by e30polak; Yesterday at 05:07 PM.

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Yesterday,

02:10 PM

#2
Join Date: Location: Posts: My Cars: Dec 2007 Dallas, TX 8,029 '93 850Ci- Daily Drivers

TxGR8White

Sick Puppy Motorwerks

All I can say is good luck with that! There have been a few LSx conversions, there have been several attempts at shaving off some weight, but you need to keep in mind that almost 100% of the parts on this car are E31-specific. There would be a lot of fabrication. As for using the suspension from an M3, you won't save any weight here, as the individual components basically are similar in weight - it's like swapping a Red Delicious for a Granny Smith.

The E31 is just a heavy GT Luxury cruiser - trying to drop 1000 pounds is very ambitious...

'93 850Ci 251,002 miles '93 850Ci 125,500 miles

...the price of cool ain't cheap!

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Yesterday,

02:26 PM

#3
Join Date: Location: Posts: My Cars: Jan 2005 Laurel, MD 4,097 Driveway Full

Ahmed303

Learning to be Faster

Agree with Tx. Losing he first 200 lbs is very easy. it gets exponentially harder after that.

Faisal in Laurel, MD.

1994 BMW 850Ci - Orient Blue/Dove

2011 GMC Acadia SLT1-AWD (Winter Daily Driver) 2003 Pacific Blue Jaguar ARDEN X-Type 2002 Topaz Blue BMW 330Ci (Summer Daily Driver) 2010 Platinim Bronze BMW 328Xi (All Season Family car) Work/Project in progress

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Yesterday,

02:50 PM

#4
Join Date: Location: Posts: My Cars: Oct 2008 Seattle 1,374 E31 E38 E65

DriftGirl

Professional HighSider

Stripping and unbalancing car doesnt make for a "better" car my friend.

www.850BMW.com *~*Yamaguchi-gumi Syndicate Member #59,005 *~* [ Bippu Couture ] ( D_G ) [ FALKEN Tires]

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Yesterday,

03:11 PM

#5
Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 3,251 My Cars: 1994 840Ci, 1995 740i

olinjohnston1
Opinionated Member

Originally Posted by e30polak

How much is a clean, complete interior worth, including the dash and the center console?

Translation: "How much money do you think I can get from you guys to help subsidize a project that I will likely give up on, and never show you." We've seen a few of these "potential race 8s" before...

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Yesterday,

03:14 PM

#6
Join Date: Location: Posts: My Cars: Dec 2006 Sunny Cali, 6,782 6.5 second 69 Camaro

8eights

Ultimate Machine Driver

The brite side! This type of hacking will eventually just make our cars go up in value as they get to be even fewer available as possible parts cars.)

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Yesterday,

03:38 PM

#7
Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Santa Ana, CA Posts: 732 My Cars: 95 740, 97 840, 98 528

840rod
Member

Agreed on the hacking 8eights... it is the bright side. Bucket seats... EZ Aluminum door panels... OK What I want to see is the R&R on the dash... I wouldn't volunteer for that misery. I'll get me a 65' Falcon to cut up before I destroy my 8 To each his (or her) own I reckon...

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Yesterday,

03:58 PM

#8
Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Vancouver Isl, BC, Canada Posts: 1,044 My Cars: 92 850i,92 525,02 330i

legoman67
Member

go buy an e46 m3csl and supercharge it. youd be way further ahead time and money wise for a track machine

- 84 325e...M50 swap, GC Coils, New paint,etc (SOLD) - 88 325IX... M52 OBD2 swap, S52 cams, 5 speed (project...future winter toy) - 92 525i (Daily Driver) - 92 850i... CSI kit (Summer toy) - 02 330i... (future daily driver)

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Yesterday,

05:20 PM

#9
Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 3,010 My Cars: '00 528iT/5 & 2003 M3

e30polak
Member

Originally Posted by TxGR8White

All I can say is good luck with that! There have been a few LSx conversions, there have been several attempts at shaving off some weight, but you need to keep in mind that almost 100% of the parts on this car are E31-specific. There would be a lot of fabrication. As for using the suspension from an M3, you won't save any weight here, as the individual components basically are similar in weight - it's like swapping a Red Delicious for a Granny Smith. The E31 is just a heavy GT Luxury cruiser - trying to drop 1000 pounds is very ambitious...

As for E31 specific parts, I'm not interested in keeping pretty much anything from the original car aside from the physical body. I'm fully aware of the fabrication required, this isn't some noobish build. I'm part owner of Castro Motorsport, and we've built a few custom race cars, let alone tons of highly modified, motor-swapped and turbocharged BMWs. The weight of the M70 is around 500 lbs fully dressed, not including the heavy and massive automatic transmission that has to be between 150-200lbs. So drivetrain alone we have 650-700 lbs. I went with a turbo S52, the motor alone is 340 lbs fully dressed (a 160 lb weight savings) - this amount is with the weight of the A/C bracket, compressor, and the power steering pump and reservoir. All of those would probably equate to 30-40lbs. The turbo set-up would add roughly 50-60 lbs to the front of the car, so let's say the total motor and turbo set-up would be between 350 - 370 lbs. A fully dressed ZF 5 speed is about 50-60 lbs, or a Getrag 6 speed from an e46 m3 would be about 65-80lbs. Therefore, total weight on the motor, transmission and turbo setup would be between 400 - 450 lbs, depending on transmission choice, flywheel, etc. I would also move the motor and transmission back about 6", for better weight distribution. Total weight savings for powertrain alone on the s52 set-up would be between 150 - 200 lbs. The complete LSX + T56 set-up without power steering, or A/C weighs in at around 525 - 540 lbs (575 - 590 fully dressed). This is still between 110 - 125 lbs lighter then the M70 set-up. Just

as with the s52 turbo set-up, I would move the motor back between 4-6" for better weight distribution. Considering the LS motor is 2 cylinders shorter, it would already have better weight distribution then the M70, sitting in front of the stock firewall. The factory A/C condenser, fan, and lines have to weigh between 25 - 40 lbs. Next, I would be doing a custom engine and body wiring harness, for either motor which would probably save anywhere between 25 -100 lbs alone. Not sure how heavy the E31 body, engine and transmission harnesses are, but considering the V12 has an electronically controlled transmission, and there are quite a few different modules controlling all the electrical components which would all be removed, I'd imagine it would all add up to well over 50 lbs of weight savings. If we take at least another 50lbs off for wiring, we're at 225 - 290 lbs of weight saved with the s52 turbo set-up, or 185 - 200 lbs saved with the LSX set-up. Factory stereo, speakers, amps and wiring would probably make up between 20 - 40 lbs. Instrument cluster, heating control assembly, heater core, blower motor, wiring for those, etc. would be at least 25 - 40 lbs. A fiberglass dash and consoles would probably save at least 10-20 lbs. (might just gut the stock dash and center console) Now to the heavy stuff - the door panels, rear panels, and the seats! The front seats alone have to weigh around 80-100 lbs or more each plus I'd imagine at least another 50-70lbs between the door panels, rear panels, rear deck, rear seat belts, armrest (s) and rear seat. Let's ball park 200 - 300 lbs for complete interior. This would be replaced with 2 bucket seats with brackets, the driver's side having and adjustable slider, along with aluminum door panels and rear panels, etc. The new interior might weigh between 70-100lbs. Total weight savings of between 100 - 230 lbs. The sunroof motor and controls would be removed, not sure if I'd spend the money to get rid of the panel itself, but I figure the motor, sliders, etc, have to weigh at least 10 - 20 lbs. Lastly, carpet, foam and sound deadening. I'm not familiar with the weight of the stock carpet, or if there's any sound deadening that can be removed, but I'd imagine the carpet on it's own has to weigh 30-50 lbs, let alone if there's any serious sound deadening weight. OK so let's tally up the 2 potential set-ups and their weight savings. S52 turbo = Approximately 410 lbs - 690 lbs (I think it would realistically be 460 - 520 based on actual weights) LSX set-up = Approximately 370 lbs - 615 lbs (I think it would realistically be 440 - 500 based on actual weights)

I was a bit off on my initial goal of 3,500, as I thought the 850 was around 4,000 (which is roughly what the 840 weighs), instead of 4,350. Either way, I think a 450 - 550 lb diet is easily achievable on the car, with just a different powertrain, and interior removal. This would put the car at 3800 - 3900 lbs, which is liveable. I know there is probably at least another 100 - 200 lbs on the table, but I wouldn't want to guesstimate too much without actual facts. I'd say the suspension and brakes would be a wash as far as weight, but they would be exponentially better from a handling stand point!

Originally Posted by Ahmed303

Agree with Tx. Losing he first 200 lbs is very easy. it gets exponentially harder after that.

I think my above weights are pretty accurate, the motor and transmission ones are confirmed. The seats and panels alone would make up for the initial 200, let alone the much lighter and better balanced motor and transmission set-up.

Originally Posted by DriftGirl

Stripping and unbalancing car doesnt make for a "better" car my friend.

I never gave such a vague blanket statement, however I would be making the car better in many ways for MY purposes and liking. From a performance stand point the motor and transmission I choose will be lighter, better balanced, much more efficient, and MUCH more potent. I don't see how I would be UNbalancing the car in any way by the weight reduction I would be doing. Removing weight makes the car more nimble, it will handle better, and because of my powertrain and suspension plans the car would be MUCH better balanced in every way from a performance and handling perspective.

I'm not here to appease the masses, and I'm far from a purist. I recently sold my S54 swapped E30 M3, which got all the s14.net enthusiast's panties in a bunch. I'm simply looking for some realistic parts values for this project, so I can come up with a realistic budget. My motivation for this project is to have one of the sexiest looking BMWs ever built, that will out perform most super cars. The fact that wil some fender work you can fit 18x10.5s all around with 305s, makes the project that much more enticing, especially if I can get it between 3500 - 3700 lbs! Couple that with 600-800whp and 500-700wtq, and we have the makings of one of the craziest, well balanced BMWs PERIOD!
- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by olinjohnston1

Translation: "How much money do you think I can get from you guys to help subsidize a project that I will likely give up on, and never show you." We've seen a few of these "potential race 8s" before...

I could care less If I make a few hundred back on the interior, motor and transmission just for my time of taking them out, which I already plan to do. I'm simply asking a question. This project is a huge undertaking, but I'm well aware of what's required, and our shop is plenty capable. This won't be some rushed hack job either.

Originally Posted by 8eights

The brite side! This type of hacking will eventually just make our cars go up in value as they get to be even fewer available as possible parts cars.)

Considering the prices are already pretty low, then I don't mind upping the value of the rest of your 8s!

Originally Posted by 840rod

Agreed on the hacking 8eights... it is the bright side. Bucket seats... EZ Aluminum door panels... OK What I want to see is the R&R on the dash... I wouldn't volunteer for that misery. I'll get me a 65' Falcon to cut up before I destroy my 8 To each his (or her) own I reckon...

Dash will have to be worth the effort, might just gut the stock dash if the weight savings aren't worth it.
Originally Posted by legoman67

go buy an e46 m3csl and supercharge it. youd be way further ahead time and money wise for a track machine

I already have a lightweight E46 M3 that I'm about to swap an LS6 with 6 speed into. However, that's to develop our E46 M3 LS swap kit, this is more of a dream project I've always wanted.
Last edited by e30polak; Yesterday at 05:23 PM.

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Yesterday,

05:58 PM

#10
Join Date: Location: Posts: My Cars: Mar 2011 Northern CA 761 1997 840, 1998 Volvo S70

toomanyparts
Member

Originally Posted by olinjohnston1

Translation: "How much money do you think I can get from you guys to help subsidize a project that I will likely give up on, and never show you." We've seen a few of these "potential race 8s" before...

Who pissed in your coffee? Sorry, but I feel you are way out of line here. I understand and respect your desire to preserve a factory car, but this sort of presumptuous behavior doesn't make you a mind reader.

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Yesterday,

06:36 PM

#11

olinjohnston1
Opinionated Member

Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 3,251 My Cars: 1994 840Ci, 1995 740i

Originally Posted by toomanyparts

Who pissed in your coffee? Sorry, but I feel you are way out of line here. I understand and respect your desire to preserve a factory car, but this sort of presumptuous behavior doesn't make you a mind reader.

I am home sick, and very uncomfortable, so maybe I was too harsh in my wording...but who does he think his market is going to be for these interior parts? It just seemed like a "what would you pay me" kind of inquiry. Plus, this same track-car-E31 idea is proposed every few months here, with the same result - the OP falls off the face of the Earth after promising to show us the progress of his creation. Like these: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...eries-race-car http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...-Car-motorswap Of course several track E31s HAVE been made, but my point is that my "presumptuous behavior" had a reason behind it.

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Yesterday,

06:57 PM

#12
Join Date: Location: Posts: My Cars: Dec 2006 Sunny Cali, 6,782 6.5 second 69 Camaro

8eights

Ultimate Machine Driver

One thing Olin is correct about, We have seen atlease 7 of these converted race cars that never made it back as a finished product inside the US, Would be nice to see one worth seeing, And finished! With all the lite weight efforts and vette engines transferred into them, None of them can hang with a TT or a 6L car which still resembles a E31 100%, I would think a Molded lite weight example would be the best way to get real results, Low 3k lbs area would be very nice in a finished replica imo.

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Yesterday,

07:17 PM

#13

e30polak
Member

Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 3,010 My Cars: '00 528iT/5 & 2003 M3

Originally Posted by olinjohnston1

I am home sick, and very uncomfortable, so maybe I was too harsh in my wording...but who does he think his market is going to be for these interior parts? It just seemed like a "what would you pay me" kind of inquiry. Plus, this same track-car-E31 idea is proposed every few months here, with the same result - the OP falls off the face of the Earth after promising to show us the progress of his creation. Like these: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...eries-race-car http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...-Car-motorswap Of course several track E31s HAVE been made, but my point is that my "presumptuous behavior" had a reason behind it.

This car will primarily be built for half mile roll race events, which we attend with Shift S3ctor here in CA: http://www.speedhunters.com/tag/shift-s3ctor/ http://shift-s3ctor.com/airstrip-attack-april-6th-7th/ That being said, with the right suspension I think it would do well around the road course as well. I understand your lack of faith, as I've seen the same problem with 6 series and 8 series projects, both of which I plan to build. This would be a longer term project, but one well within our abilities. We're not scared to take on crazy projects, we've currently started an LS7 powered E46 M3 race car project for a friend, and I have an E46 M3 I will be swapped a cammed LS6 into. The LS7 e46 m3 project at this point

Our 500whp s50 turbo, fully caged, E30 race car, which competed at the April Airstrip Attack event

Frank Ocean's right hand drive converted, RMS stage 2 supercharged, s54 swapped E30

Sebo's 440whp s50 turbo e30 that competed at last October's Airstrip Attack

A 2.8L m20 swapped, custom turbo E21 Baur we're building

An s52 turbo E30 m3 and my former s54 swapped e30 m3, that were both built and sold to Frank Ocean

Shafique's S54 swapped E36

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Yesterday,

07:27 PM

#14
Join Date: Location: Posts: My Cars: Dec 2006 Sunny Cali, 6,782 6.5 second 69 Camaro

8eights

Ultimate Machine Driver

looks to be a easy task for you. Please update on the progress. ***Subscribed***

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Yesterday,

07:27 PM

#15

olinjohnston1
Opinionated Member

Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 3,251 My Cars: 1994 840Ci, 1995 740i

Well please keep us posted on the E31 as it comes along.

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Yesterday,

07:29 PM

#16
Join Date: Location: Posts: My Cars: Dec 2009 Malm, Sweden 299 1990 BMW 850. BMW 120D

IvanHansen
Member

Originally Posted by legoman67

go buy an e46 m3csl and supercharge it. youd be way further ahead time and money wise for a track machine

+1
Last edited by IvanHansen; Yesterday at 07:31 PM.

"Adversity cause some men to break; others to break records." -William A. Ward "There" is no better a place than "here." When your "there" has become a "here", you will simply obtain another "there" that will again look better than "here."

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Yesterday,

07:32 PM

#17
Join Date: Location: Posts: My Cars: Mar 2011 Northern CA 761 1997 840, 1998 Volvo S70

toomanyparts
Member

Originally Posted by olinjohnston1

Well please keep us posted on the E31 as it comes along.

Someone stole my unicycle.

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Yesterday,

07:42 PM

#18
Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 3,251 My Cars: 1994 840Ci, 1995 740i

olinjohnston1
Opinionated Member

Huh?

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Yesterday,

08:27 PM

#19
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Puget Sound, USA Posts: 822 My Cars: 96 850ci, 06 325xi

smc850ci

I think I 8 too much

Considering the LS motor is 2 cylinders shorter, it would already have better weight distribution then the M70... I sure hope that was a typo!

Oxford Green Metallic, Parchment leather, 854 badge, EDC stock struts, M-Sport springs, 3.91 LSD, CSI rear sway, 18" M-Pars, M-Sport wheel w/flappy paddles, CD-43 head unit, Strong Strut brace, Euro FTPs, CSI rear defuser

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Yesterday,

09:35 PM

#20
Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 3,010 My Cars: '00 528iT/5 & 2003 M3

e30polak
Member

Originally Posted by 8eights

looks to be a easy task for you. Please update on the progress. ***Subscribed***

Not "easy," but well within our abilities.


Originally Posted by olinjohnston1

Well please keep us posted on the E31 as it comes along.

Not anytime soon. We're focused on finishing both LSX powered E46 M3s before touching this project. Looking at a few cars that may be worth jumping on, but I may hold off till fall or winter to start. Luckily I have a spare s52 and a spare LS1 already, so both motor options have been acquired. Again this thread is for me to see what my budget will realistically be.

Originally Posted by IvanHansen

+1

I'm already building an LS6 powered E46 M3 for myself, which will be just as much fun as a supercharged CSL. Plus we never received the CSL in the US. I'm taking on this kind of project because I want to build something different, which will truly give any spectators that "WOW!" factor. My reasons for choosing the E31: 1) Long and wide wheel base 2) Ability to put very wide wheels and tires under the factory fender, and even more so if modified. 3) Even though I want to remove a bunch of weight from the car, it will still be heavy enough to handle the big power I will be putting in it. 4) Fairly aerodynamic, and does well at high speeds - making it a suitable option for half mile races. 5) It's an iconic BMW that many people love and the end result will bring a lot of exposure for our shop. 6) Once the project is completed and tested, it will bring good money to the right buyer. 7) It's one of the sexiest looking BMWs ever built!
Originally Posted by smc850ci

I sure hope that was a typo!

I guess so. V12 has 6 cylinders on each side, vs a V8 with 4 cylinders on each side. So technically 4 cylinders total shorter if you combine both sides of the motor, but the length of each side of the motor is 2 cylinders longer.

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Yesterday,

10:45 PM
Join Date: Location: Posts: My Cars:

#21
May 2013 Malibu calif 110 850Ci, E9,SL65,911S+246

execmalibu
Member

I am interested in some of your interior parts... I am in Malibu execmalibu@earthlink

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