Eric Briggs(exert I!IO"#$
Ju%ge& Katherine Jackson versus AEG Live. Good afternoon. Okay. Someone wanted to talk to me?
's( C)h)*& Yes your honor. !here"s #ust a one$word errata correction to %r. Saunders" video that was
&layed on 'riday that we missed at the time( so for the #ury and for the record ) wanted to read the
correction *efore we *e+in with ,r. -ri++s.
'r( +)*ish& ) think you mean !hursday.
'r( +ut*),& !hursday.
's( C)h)*& !hursday.
'r( +ut*),& !here was an errata your honor that was overlooked( so #ust for the record at some
&oint we have to do it.
Ju%ge& Okay. .hat a*out what"s filed? %idn"t you already $$
's( C)h)*& .hat was filed was correct ) *elieve.

Ju%ge& Okay. You want to do that *efore we start?
's( C)h)*& Yes #ust for the record closer in time. !hank you your honor.
Ju%ge& And you"ll #ust announce what you"re doin+?
's( C)h)*& Yes.
's( Str-*g& 'or the record we did file a *rief your honor with res&ect to what was discussed at
side*ar yesterday with res&ect to ,r. -ri++s" testimony so you have that *rief now.
'r( +)*ish& .e #ust +ot it.
Ju%ge& All ri+ht. 'or the chart. And you #ust +ot it?
's( Ste..i*s& .e #ust filed it.
("he /-ll-0i*g r-cee%i*gs 0ere hel% i* -e* c-urt1 i* the rese*ce -/ the 2ur-rs$&
's( C)h)*& .hen we &layed the de&osition of %r. Saunders last week we inadvertently overlooked
one correction that he made to his de&osition transcri&t. /e was +iven the normal 01 days to make
corrections. And he chan+ed it to a word that should have *een made to his $$ a correction when his
video was *ein+ &layed. .e overlooked that and so ) wanted to read the correction and answer and
e2&lain the correction for the record now. !his is at &a+e 314 of the transcri&t for the record.
Q. And in your experience treating Michael Jackson, what medications was he on?
A. Well, the only two I knew of were demerol and morphine. The word morphine was changed !y
"r. #aunders to !uprenorphine. And the answer continues 5readin+67 I think I had gi$en him some
oral pain medications like %% I don&t know which, like $icodin or something of that %% of that type, so
pain medication.' Thank you, your honor.
'r( +)*ish& Your honor my screen is not workin+.
(.rie/ recess t)3e*$
's( C)h)*& 'or the record the correction was at &a+e 314 of the transcri&t. !he 8uestion and answer
run from line 3 to line 9 and the correction was at line :.

Ju%ge& !hank you. ,s. Stron+ you"re ready to continue?
's( Str-*g& !hank you your honor.
C-*ti*ue% %irect ex),i*)ti-* .y S).ri*) Str-*g&
4( Good afternoon ,r. -ri++s.
A( Good afternoon.
4( )"d like to turn *ack to the very first slide that you showed us which was e2hi*it 30:94. And to *e
clear your task in this case was to consider ,r. Erk"s earnin+s &ro#ections a*out what ,r. Erk said
,ichael Jackson would have done had ,ichael Jackson not &assed away correct?
A( !hat"s correct as &ertains to work$related income and ) distin+uished that from &assive income.
4( And so when you say ;work$related income; thin+s where ,ichael Jackson would have to +o out
and work and do somethin+ to +enerate the income correct?
A( <orrect.
4( Okay. And have you now talked to us a*out your o&inions with res&ect to the to&ics identified on
this slide?
A( Yes ) have.
4( And with all of your testimony in mind a*out these to&ics can you &lease tell us your fundamental
conclusions as to any &ro#ected earnin+s *ased on the &ro#ects that ,r. Erk said ,ichael Jackson would
have done?
A( ,y fundamental conclusions are one that it is s&eculative as to whether these &ro#ects would have
occurred( and two that the &ro#ections and num*ers set forth *y ,r. Erk are s&eculative.
's( Str-*g& Okay. And is the micro&hone on? ) couldn"t tell if it"s $$
Ju%ge& !a& it. Yes it"s on.
's( Str-*g& You mi+ht want to *rin+ it closer to you. !hat sounds *etter. At this time your honor
we"d like to &ass the witness.
Ju%ge& !hank you. <ross$e2amination?
Cr-ss5ex),i*)ti-* .y Bri)* +)*ish&

4( Good afternoon sir.
A( Good afternoon.
4( You"re not here as an inde&endent witness are you?
A( )"m not sure ) understand your 8uestion. ) was en+a+ed in this matter *y AEG and O",elveny =
4( Sir are you here as an inde&endent witness?
's( Str-*g& O*#ection( ar+umentative 04>.
Ju%ge& Overruled.
A( )"m offerin+ my inde&endent o&inion in this matter.
4( Sir you"re *ein+ &aid for your o&inions in this case aren"t you?
's( Str-*g& O*#ection $$
Ju%ge& Overruled.
A( ?o ) as an individual am not *ein+ &aid for my o&inion in this matter.
4( Your com&any that you work for is *ein+ &aid for your testimony here correct?
A( -y ;com&any; you mean '!) <onsultin+?
4( Yes sir.
A( '!) <onsultin+ is *illin+ fees in this matter yes.
'r( +)*ish& Sir $$ your honor ) would ask as ) did yesterday that we instruct him to answer the
8uestions already.
Ju%ge& Okay. Listen to the 8uestion answer the 8uestion that"s asked.
4( Your com&any is *ein+ &aid for your testimony in this case correct sir?
A( !hat"s correct.

4( And you"re not inde&endent you"re *ein+ &aid *y this side over here aren"t you sir?
A( ) don"t a+ree with your characteri@ation of ;inde&endent.;
4( Sir you"re *ein+ &aid $$ you"re on one side? You"ve never worked with this side of the ta*le have
you sir?
A( -y ;this side; you mean the &anish law firm?
4( ) mean the &eo&le *rin+in+ the case. ,rs. Jackson and her children. You"re not workin+ for them
are you sir?
A( ) am not &erformin+ work in this matter for ,rs. Jackson or the &anish law firm.
4( You"re workin+ for AEG And the O",elveny = ,yers law firm correct?
'r( +ut*),& O*#ection( misstates testimony. /e"s not workin+ for A.E.G.
Ju%ge& Overruled.
A( )"m en+a+ed as an e2&ert witness in this matter *y O",elveny = ,yers and AEG Live.
'r( +)*ish& !hank you.
4( So you are workin+ for AEG Live correct?
A( ,y firm is *ein+ com&ensated *y AEG Live for my testimony my firm has *een hired *y AEG
4( Okay. So you"re on one side. You"re not inde&endent you"re on that side of the ta*le ri+ht sir?
A( )"m not sure ) understand what your 8uestion is +ettin+ at.
4( Okay. .ell let"s talk a*out your &ay for your com&any. ?ow first of all sir since July 3Ath the last
two weeks how many meetin+s have you had with counsel?
A( ) #ust want to make sure ) understand your 8uestion. You said my &ay or do you mean &ay to '!)
4( Sir how many meetin+s have you had with counsel since July 3Ath?
A( A&&ro2imately four to si2 meetin+s with counsel.
4( So in the last two weeks four to si2. /ow many hours have you worked in the last four $$ last $$
since July 3Ath?

A( A&&ro2imately :1 or 41 hours.
4( .ell sir you were here all day yesterday ri+ht?
A( ?o. Yesterday was a half day sir.
4( %idn"t you +o to the law firm and meet with the lawyers *efore you came here?
A( ) went to the law firm very *riefly *efore ) walked $$ *efore we came over here sir.
4( %id you +o to the law firm today *efore you came here?
A( Yes.
4( And what time did you +et there today?
A( A&&ro2imately 3>711 o"clock.
4( Okay. And you went to the law firm how many other times this week?
A( .ell )"ve *een to the law firm $$ well today is $$ today is !uesday so )"ve *een there ,onday and
!uesday this week.
4( /ow a*out the week *efore? /ow a*out the weekend? %id you meet them on the weekend?
A( ) did not meet the lawyers this &ast weekend.
4( /ow a*out the week *efore that?
A( %urin+ the week *efore ) had +one to the law firm.
4( /ow many times?
A( ) *elieve ) went there every day.
4( Okay. So that"s five days last week you went there and two days this week so far ri+ht?
A( !hat"s correct.
4( And how many hours a day did you +o there last week?
A( ) was there *etween four and si2 hours #ust de&endin+ on the day. Some days many fewer hours.
4( %id you drive there from your house?
A( Yes.
4( %id you *ill for the time of travel?

A( ?o.
4( So you don"t *ill for travel time at A11 an hour?
A( !hat"s not my customary &ractice.
4( Okay. So you don"t char+e them to drive and travel( is that ri+ht?
's( Str-*g& O*#ection( asked and answered.
Ju%ge& Overruled.
A( ) did not char+e to drive and travel.
4( So you"re still +oin+ to stick with that :1 hours?
A( ) *elieve the answer ) +ave you is :1 to 41 hours as an a&&ro2imate. ) haven"t actually ta*ulated my
hours for the time &eriod.
4( Okay. .ere you u& in fifth floor watchin+ the trial when ,r. Erk testified?
A( ) was not.
4( Anyone from your firm there?
A( ?ot to my knowled+e.
4( .ho else from your firm has *een workin+ on this case since July 3Ath?
A( A +entleman *y the name of ,atthew ,ucinow 5&honetic6.
4( Anyone else?
A( ?ot materially. ) may have asked a 8uestion or two of some of my other staff mem*ers *ut nothin+
4( And how many hours has ,atthew worked since July 3Ath?
A( On the order of five to ten.

4( And ,atthew sir $$ strike that. .ho is the +entleman that"s sittin+ in the front row there with the
+lasses on that"s *een comin+ with
You? .ho is that? <ould you stand u& sir? And who is he?
A( !hat"s Bich -uckner from O",elveny = ,yers.

4( And has he *een workin+ with you to &re&are you for your testimony?
A( ) have *een in meetin+s with Bich -uckner in advance of comin+ here today.
4( /ow many attorneys have you met with in this case sir?
A( Just to *e clear ;met; you mean shake hands or ;met; s&ent time in meetin+s with? ) want to
answer your 8uestion as *est as &ossi*le.
4( Let"s start with shake hands since you *rou+ht it u&.
A( )"ve &ro*a*ly shaken the hands of five or si2 different attorneys from O",elveny = ,yers.
4( And how many that worked with you for your testimony in meetin+s?
A( !hree.
4( .ho were they? ,s. Stron+ ,r. -uckner and who else?
A( Ale2 %avis.
4( And did Ale2 $$ is that a male or female?
A( 'emale.
4( And did they +ive you a scri&t of the 8uestions they were +oin+ to ask you?
A( ?o.
4( Okay. ?ow sir so then if ) understand it ri+ht you"ve $$ let"s #ust say 41 hours times A11. !hat"s
:1111 ri+ht?
A( Okay.
4( .ell you"re the economist. )s that the ri+ht math?
A( )t sounds ri+ht.
4( And ,r. $$ ,atthew let"s say ten hours. /e"s at C041 an hour ri+ht?
A( ) *elieve so.
4( .ell sir in fact other than you the &erson that"s *illed the most hours on this case is ,atthew isn"t
A( ) *elieve so.
4( ,atthew has done the most work on this case hasn"t he?

A( ) don"t understand your characteri@ation of ;the most work.; if you"re sim&ly s&eakin+ to the
num*er of hours he worked ) su&&ose that"s ri+ht that sounds consistent.
4( .hy don"t you tell us what ,atthew"s e2&erience in the entertainment industry is for all the hours
of work he did in this case.
A( ,atthew"s *ack+round in the entertainment industry?
4( Yes. .hat year did ,atthew +raduate from colle+e?
A( ) *elieve in the last two years.
4( ,atthew has *een with your com&any for less than a year?
A( !hat"s consistent with my understandin+.
4( And ,atthew has a *achelor"s de+ree ri+ht?
A( !hat"s consistent with my understandin+.
4( And what was his ma#or sir?
A( ) don"t know.
4( You don"t know. So the man that worked with you other than yourself the most in this entire case
to run u& your *ill was ,atthew who"s *een out of colle+e less than two years and you don"t know
what his de+ree is in correct?
A( You"re &uttin+ a lot of thin+s in there. )"ve sim&ly stated that ,atthew *illed more hours than
&resuma*ly any of the mem*ers of the team( *ut your characteri@ation of ;worked as much; )"m #ust
concerned with.
4( )"m talkin+ a*out *illed hours sir. -ecause your firm $$ you +et &aid *y *illin+ hours don"t you?
A( Our firm +ets &aid in any num*er of ways de&endin+ on the en+a+ement.
4( )n this case sir how do you +et &aid?
A( )n this case we"re *illin+ hours.
4( And you kee& track of what you do don"t you sir?
A( .e kee& track of how many hours we work.
4( %o you kee& track of what you were workin+ on in those hours?
A( You mean in re+ards to a matter? .e kee& track that we"re s&endin+ hours on AEG

4( .ell you don"t say that ;)"m reviewin+ *ill*oard records; or ;)"m reviewin+ de&ositions; you don"t
s&ecify what work you did sir?
A( ?o as a &ractice ) have not done that.
4( And no one in your firm has done that?
A( .ell my firm has :111 &eo&le. ) can"t s&eak to the firm.
4( On this case sir.
A( Oh not to my knowled+e.
4( So you #ust +ive a *ill to the %efendants it doesn"t say what you did and they #ust &ay it( is that
A( !hat"s correct.
4( So no matter what you could #ust make u& a num*er of hours and they #ust &ay it no one checks
the work that you did in this case correct?
's( Str-*g& O*#ection( calls for s&eculation.
Ju%ge& Overruled.
A( <an you restate the 8uestion &lease?
'r( +)*ish& Sure. Let"s start with the amount of money $$ if we add in another :1 and ,atthew let"s
say :0111 D
4( /ow much sir has your law firm $$ e2cuse me. /ow much sir have you char+ed the %efendants
in this case without itemi@in+ the work you did?
A( ) *elieve our total *ills in this matter are on the order of E or C911111.
4( )sn"t it a*out 911111 sir?
A( ) *elieve our total *ills in this matter are on the order of E or C911111.
4( Okay. .ell you"re the economist. <an you add them u& for me sir?
A( )"m +ivin+ you a rou+h estimate. ) don"t have a total of the hours )"ve s&ent on this matter.
4( .ell how a*out E41 $$ how is that? $$ thousand?
A( !hat"s in the ran+e of that ) stated.

4( Okay. .ell would you acce&t that as $$ you #ust said that so it"s E41111( is that ri+ht? You tell me
what it is. Or should ) write E to 911111? .hat should ) write?
A( .ell ) stated E to 911111 so $$
4( Okay. And it"s your testimony that you"re here as an inde&endent witness ri+ht?
A( ) am offerin+ my inde&endent o&inion here today.
4( .ell sir ,atthew in your firm $$ strike that. %o you know there"s another e2&ert on $$ on the issue
of losses of ,r. Jackson in this case retained *y the %efendant?
A( <an you state $$ another e2&ert on the issue of losses?
4( Yes.
A( ) understand $$ if you"re referencin+ ,r. Ackerman ) understand ,r. Ackerman is doin+ work
involvin+ dama+es. ) $$ if *y ;dama+es; you mean ;losses; then ) a+ree.
4( .ell isn"t dama+e a loss sir?
A( ) don"t $$ ) don"t want to +et into le+al definitions. )"m tryin+ to answer your 8uestion.
4( Okay. So there"s another e2&ert #ust like you in the field of dama+es retained *y the %efendants in
this case ri+ht sir?
A( )f we"re talkin+ a*out ,r. Ackerman yes.
4( And you reviewed his de&osition didn"t you sir?
A( ) did.
4( And what did he *ill as of the time of his de&osition?
A( ) don"t know.
4( You didn"t see his testimony in that re+ard sir?
A( ) don"t recall what he *illed as of the time of his de&osition.
4( .ell sir as of your de&osition you $$ you testified under oath you"d only worked 301 hours ri+ht?
A( ) *elieve so yes.
4( .ell sir did you read your de&osition *efore you came here to testify under oath?
A( Yes( ) #ust didn"t memori@e this s&ecific num*er of hours.
4( .ell would you like to look at your de&osition and refresh your recollection what your testimony

under oath was as to how many hours you have worked u& to that time?
A( )"m ha&&y to take a look at that.
4( Okay. So you don"t have any idea as you sit here today( is that ri+ht sir?
's( Str-*g& O*#ection( misstates his testimony ar+umentative.
Ju%ge& Overruled.
A( ) stated ) *elieve that is a&&ro2imately correct when you stated 301 hours.
'r( +)*ish& .ell )"m not tryin+ to *e a&&ro2imate sir )"m tryin+ to +et what you testified D
4( .hen you testified under oath did you tell the truth?
A( Yes.
4( Okay. And do you remem*er testifyin+ under oath that as of your de&osition you worked 301 hours
on this case?
A( ) told you ) *elieve that"s correct.
4( Okay. And sir how many hours have you worked since your de&osition when you +ave your
o&inions in this case?
A( ) *elieve )"ve indicated durin+ direct a&&ro2imately 041 hours in total so a&&ro2imately >11
additional hours.
4( ,ore than you already worked ri+ht?
A( ) don"t understand the 8uestion.
4( Okay. .ell sir let"s mark e2hi*it 31:9 $$ let"s +o there. )f we can +ive counsel a co&y. !hese are
some of your *illin+ statements sir. ?ow sir you"re reviewed the *ills haven"t you sir? You"ve
reviewed your *ills *efore sir?
A( )n some cases yes.
4( )n this case?
A( ) haven"t reviewed all of the *ills in this matter. Some of the *ills ) was asked to take a look at
*efore they went to O",elveny = ,yers.
4( .ell does your com&any send out *ills that you don"t review?
A( )n some cases.

4( Okay. .ell let"s look at the first &a+e. Let"s see how you *ill. Sir how do you know $$ do you kee&
track of the hours that you work?
A( Yes.
4( /ow do you do that?
A( ) tell my assistant what num*er of hours ) s&end on each matter.
4( And does she write it down?
A( )"m not entirely sure what she does with that.
4( %oes she ty&e it u&?
A( ) $$ )"m not entirely sure what she does with it.
4( .ell let"s &ut u& this e2hi*it first. Okay. So $$ so do you know if your secretary accurately *ills
what you did sir?
A( ) can"t s&eak to the accuracy of the ste&s she takes.
4( .ell let"s look at this *ill here. 39.0 hours CA11 an hour that"s you ri+ht sir?
A( !hat"s correct.
4( And the total *ill C444:1 ri+ht?
A( !hat"s what the document says.
4( Okay. .hat did you do in those 39.0 hours sir?
A( ) was &erformin+ work related to this case.
4( .hat s&ecific work were you doin+ sir?
A( )"ve done a lot of work in re+ards to this case. ) was &ro*a*ly reviewin+ documents &re&arin+ for
my de&osition any num*er of thin+s durin+ the course of that 39 hours.
4( Sir can you tell us here today under oath s&ecifically what you did to *ill that C30A:1 in this *ill
that you su*mitted?
A( <onductin+ research and &re&arin+ for my de&osition.
4( Okay. .hat were you researchin+ sir?
A( Fresuma*ly $$ &resuma*ly *ack+round related to ,ichael Jackson and other relevant matters.

4( %o you have $$ other relevant $$ what other relevant matters sir?
A( .hatever else mi+ht have come into &lay what $$ the nature was of his concerts or anythin+ else
that may have come u& at that &oint in time. As of that &oint in time ) didn"t have the o&&ortunity )
*elieve to review ,r. Erk"s analysis(
so it was more &re&aratory.
4( Sir you can"t tell us s&ecifically what you did durin+ that time can you?
A( ) $$ ) think ) was &retty clear ) was &re&arin+ for ,r. Erk"s de&osition $$
4( .hat did you research? %o you have any records of the research you conducted?
A( As ) sit here now ) don"t have records.
4( %id you kee& records of the research you did sir?
A( ) sus&ect to the e2tent there were articles or other documents we looked at they were ke&t *y my
4( .ell sir what you *rou+ht to your de&osition is the materials you +enerated in this case( isn"t that
A( !he materials $$ amon+ other documents yes.
4( Sir what $$ no no. You *rou+ht to the de&osition all the documents that you +enerated as you
worked &ursuant to the de&osition notice didn"t you sir?
A( Yes amon+ other documents.
4( And all that you *rou+ht to your de&osition were $$ the 8 scores you *rou+ht those ri+ht?
A( Yes amon+ other documents.
4( )"m +oin+ to +et to them. Sir can you answer my 8uestion &lease?
A( Yes.
4( !he 8 scores you *rou+ht some articles a*out concerts *ein+ canceled correct?
A( !hat"s correct.
4( You *rou+ht a two$&a+e list of your o&inions correct?
A( ) want to *e clear. !hat two$&a+e list you"re referencin+ is a series of notes and *ullet &oints as
reminders to me.
4( .hat does it say on the to& of that document sir? You"ve +ot it ri+ht there ri+ht? <an ) a&&roach
your honor?

Ju%ge& Yes.
4( )s that everythin+ you *rou+ht to your de&osition sir?
A( ?o.
4( Are these the e2hi*its to your de&osition?
A( E2cuse me. !hese are the e2hi*its to ,r. Erk"s trial testimony.
4( Are these the e2hi*its to your de&osition?
A( !hese are the e2hi*its to my de&osition and some additional documents that were $$ these are for
,r. Erk. !hese are e2hi*its from ,r. Erk"s de&osition.
4( So this is everythin+ that you *rou+ht all the work you did in this case written work for the
CE41111 ri+ht?
A( -rou+ht where?
4( !o your de&osition. !his is what you +enerated in this case ri+ht?
A( !hat is not the e2tent of the documents ) *rou+ht to my de&osition. )"ve said this a few times.
4( .ell sir here"s your de&osition. All the documents you *rou+ht were attached to your de&osition
weren"t they sir?
A( !hat"s not correct.
4( .hat wasn"t attached to your de&osition?
A( .ell ) *rou+ht the full de&osition transcri&ts of a num*er of medical e2&erts that were relevant in
formin+ my o&inion ) *rou+ht the full de&osition transcri&ts of a num*er of *usiness mana+ers that
were relevant in formin+ my o&inion.
4( Sir you didn"t +enerate those de&osition $$
Ju%ge& /e"s not finished ,r. Fanish.
'r( +)*ish& !he 8uestion was ;+enerated.; *ut +o ahead.
A( )"m s&eakin+ to what ) *rou+ht. ) wanted to *e as &re&ared as &ossi*le( and ) thou+ht ,r. Sanders
Flaintiffs" counsel would *e askin+ me very s&ecific to&ics ;what did you see in this de&osition a*out
,r. Jackson"s $$; ) wanted to *e &re&ared $$
'r( +)*ish& <an you #ust tell us what you *rou+ht?
Ju%ge& ,r. Fanish let him finish. /old on to your 8uestion.

A( As ) said ) *rou+ht full de&osition transcri&ts for a variety of *usiness mana+ers full de&osition
transcri&ts for ,r. Fhilli&s and Gon+aware full de&osition transcri&ts for medical e2&erts. ) *rou+ht a
num*er of articles 8 score data. ) *rou+ht the full de&osition for ,r. Erk ) *elieve &erha&s for ,r.
'ormu@is as well as the full e2hi*it set for ,r. Erk.
'r( +)*ish& So let"s +et *ack to my 8uestion sir. ) want to know everythin+ that you *rou+ht that you
4( You didn"t +enerate the de&ositions did you sir?
A( )f *y ;+enerate; you mean work &roduct ) cited no ) did not create the de&ositions.
4( And everythin+ that"s contained in your little file here is everythin+ that you +enerated on this case
A( ) a+ree.
4( Okay. !hank you. ?ow the first &a+e read what that is.
A( )"m sorry. ) $$ ) want to +o *ack to that &revious answer. -y your definition of ;+enerated; there are
documents here that were e2hi*its that ) clearly didn"t +enerate in the sense that this is an e$mail for
e2am&le *y Faul Gon+aware( and ) #ust want to *e &recise in my answer.
4( .e"ll +et to that.
A( Okay.
4( .hat"s the first e2hi*it?
A( E2hi*it 3.
4( .hat"s it entitled?
'r( +ut*),& Your honor does he have to *e u& there while he"s askin+? ) mean $$
Ju%ge& .ell do you have that at your $$
'r( +)*ish& ) don"t have it.
's( Str-*g& !hey"re e2hi*its to his de&osition your honor.
'r( +ut*),& )n order.
'r( +)*ish& <ome on.
Ju%ge& You can come u& and look at it too.

'r( +)*ish& You can come u& here too if you want.
Ju%ge& ,r. Fanish let me tell them.
'r( +)*ish& Okay.
4( ?ow can you read what e2hi*it 3 to your de&osition is sir?
A( You"d like me to read the to& of the &iece of &a&er?
4( )s there a title to it sir?
A( )t"s not really a total title it"s #ust a framework. !hese are #ust shorthand notes. -ut )"m ha&&y to
read it. ;O&inions re+ardin+ the dama+e analysis of Flaintiffs" e2&erts Erk and 'ormu@is o&inions
re+ardin+ the income +enerated *y E.,.J.; which is the Estate of ,ichael Jackson.
4( Okay. %id you &re&are that sir?
A( ) &re&ared this document.
4( Okay. !hat"s one thin+ you *rou+ht to your de&osition ri+ht?
A( !hat"s correct.
4( !he ne2t thin+ is what?
A( !his is a series of raw 8 score data that ) *rou+ht to my de&osition.
4( Okay. And the ne2t thin+ that D
Ju%ge& You"re +oin+ throu+h ta*s ri+ht?
'r( +)*ish& Bi+ht.
4( And the ne2t thin+ is a series of articles a*out canceled concerts? )s that a fair statement?
A( !hat"s correct. ) *rou+ht a num*er of articles a*out &rominent artists cancelin+ tours or cancelin+
concert dates.
4( )s that a yes?
A( Yes. )"m #ust *ein+ s&ecific.
4( Okay. And then tell me if ) miss anythin+ $$
A( You did. E2cuse me.

4( .hat did ) miss?
A( You missed two articles on cancelations of ma#or L)s Veg)s shows. !hese were *rou+ht to indicate
the fre8uency of cancelation of ma#or L)s Veg)s shows.
4( Sir )"m #ust askin+ you what ) missed. Okay? So ) missed two articles a*out L)s Veg)s shows.
A( !hat"s correct.
4( )s that ri+ht? Okay.
A( !here"s an article here a*out the low 'ace*ook &o&ularity of ,ichael Jackson *efore date of death
and after date of death.
4( Okay. !hen there"s your e2&ert desi+nation ri+ht?
A( Yes. !hese are documents that were not +enerated *y $$
4( And then there"s some e$mails. So really what you +enerated in this whole case was this much( is
that ri+ht?
A( Okay.
Ju%ge& )ndicatin+ what a*out an inch worth of &a&er?
'r( +)*ish& )"d say less.
4( -ut why don"t you tell us how much is that sir?
A( A*out an inch worth of &a&er.
4( Okay. So that"s what you +enerated in your firm for CE41111 in this case( is that ri+ht?
A( .ell if a+ain you"re definin+ ;+enerated; as &rinted &ieces of &a&er ) would a+ree with you. )f
you"re definin+ ;+enerated; as the testimony that ) offered durin+ my de&osition and )"m offerin+ here
today then it"s o*viously not com&rehensive.
4( Sir ) already told you the definition we"re usin+ for ;+enerated.; %id you for+et that?
A( ) #ust want to *e com&rehensive.
4( Sir everythin+ you +enerated work &roduct is less than an inch in this case ri+ht?
A( Fa&erwork &roduct yes.
4( And the ma#ority of that that you"re claimin+ you +enerated were 8 scores that were sent to you *y
the 8 com&any correct?

A( )t a&&ears so yes.
4( So you didn"t really +enerate them you asked for them and they sent these to you ri+ht?
A( A+ain in terms of &a&er documents ) +enerated those were documents that were &rinted and that )
*rou+ht with me.
4( So that"s a*out a half an inch ri+ht?
A( Okay.
4( )s that ri+ht?
A( )t a&&ears so.
4( Okay. So let"s talk a*out now sir the materials that you reviewed in this case. %id you &re&are any
de&osition summaries?
A( ?o. ) read all the de&ositions in full.
4( Okay. And all the de&ositions you read you didn"t take any summary notes did you?
A( ?o $$ ) didn"t take any written notes.
4( So you remem*er it all in your head?
A( ) remem*er the key &oints( and in many cases where there were critical &oints to formin+ my
o&inion ) noted them here on this o&inion sheet you referenced earlier.
4( )"m +oin+ to +et to that.
A( Okay.
4( !ell me how many de&osition $$ strike that. !ell me the names of all the de&ositions you reviewed
in this case sir. %o you have a list of that anywhere?
A( Of every sin+le de&osition )"ve reviewed?
4( Yes.
A( ) $$ ) don"t have a list of that somewhere.
4( .hy don"t you tell us from your memory $$ you didn"t write down and document what you
reviewed in this case sir?
A( ) wrote down and documented the de&ositions and the trial testimony $$ e2cuse me $$ the
de&ositions that were critical to formin+ my o&inion. )"m ha&&y to share that list with you.
4( Sir that wasn"t my 8uestion. <ould you &lease listen to my 8uestion. %id you ever make a list of all

the de&ositions you reviewed in this case?
A( ) did not create an e2haustive list of every de&osition ) reviewed in this case.
4( Sir you said you *illed 041 hours in this case( is that ri+ht?
A( !hat"s my testimony.
4( And how much of that time did you s&end readin+ the de&ositions?
A( A si+nificant amount. ) can"t s&eak to a s&ecific num*er.
4( ,ore than 311 hours?
A( )t"s &ossi*le.
4( ) don"t want to know what"s &ossi*le sir. ) want to know what you did to your *est $$ can you +ive
us an estimate of how many &a+es of de&ositions you read?
A( Fro*a*ly thousands.

4( ,ore than 31111?
A( ) don"t $$ ) don"t think more than 31111.
4( Less than 4111?
A( ) $$ ) don"t want to s&eculate.
4( So you"re una*le to +ive any estimate at all of the num*er of &a+es of de&ositions you read in this
case( is that ri+ht?
A( ,y estimate is thousands of &a+es of de&osition.
4( So anywhere *etween 3 and what 311111?
A( ) think ) stated my *elief was it was less
!han 31111.
4( -etween 3 and 31111 is your *est estimate you can +ive us here today?
A( )f ) had to +uess it"s &ro*a*ly closer to 31111 than 3111.
4( So on the 31111 &a+es how many hours did it take you to read that?
A( ) don"t know.
4( You don"t have any documented evidence of how much you s&ent on each de&osition do you sir?

A( ) do not.
4( You don"t have any summaries of the de&ositions do you sir?
A( Just to *e clear the &a+e references on my sheet of o&inions are indicative of the key &arts of the
de&ositions ) identified.
'r( +)*ish& Your honor could you ask the witness to answer the 8uestion?
Ju%ge& !he 8uestion was summaries. %o you have a summary?
A( !o the e2tent that"s not considered a summary ) don"t have a summary.
'r( +)*ish& Okay.
4( So tell us the names of all the de&ositions of the 31111 &a+es that you reviewed sir.
A( .ell ) can share with you the names of the &eo&le de&osed that were critical in formin+ my
o&inion. )"m ha&&y to do that.
4( ,y 8uestion a+ain sir &lease tell us all the de&ositions that you reviewed in this case to run u& a
CE41111 *ill.
A( ) cannot +ive you an e2haustive list of every &erson"s de&osition that ) reviewed in con#unction with
this case.
4( Okay. So without lookin+ at your notes tell me what you remem*er you reviewed sir.
A( %e&ositions?
4( Yes.
A( Sure. Earley %r. 'ormu@is %r. Shimelman %r. Schnoll %r. Levounis -ill Ackerman Faul
Gon+aware Bandy Fhilli&s -ranca Sherman .hitman Se+al Katherine Jackson Frince Jackson
Faris Jackson. ) think that"s the e2tent of my memory.
4( /ow many is that ,r. -oyle? 34 de&ositions you"ve reviewed. !hat"s your *est recollection you
can"t tell us anythin+ else in this case ri+ht?
A( !hat"s off the to& of my head.
4( )sn"t it true you reviewed ,r. /awk"s de&osition?
A( !hank you. Yes. ) did a*solutely.
4( ?ow tell us a*out all the trial testimony that you reviewed sir.
A( You mean individuals that a&&eared at trial?

4( .ell did you review testimony other than testimony of individuals at the trial?
A( ) reviewed the o&enin+ statements *y *oth &arties.
4( Oh you also reviewed the summary #ud+ment motion didn"t you sir?
A( )"m not sure s&ecifically what document you"re referencin+.
4( So you don"t remem*er testifyin+ under oath in your de&osition that you reviewed the motion for
summary #ud+ment the o&&osition to the motion for summary #ud+ment in this case?
A( ) $$ ) do recall that yes. ) know what you"re referencin+.
4( And you reviewed the court order re+ardin+ the summary #ud+ment in this case didn"t you sir?
A( !his is the #ud+e"s res&onse to these motions?
4( Yes.
A( ) recall them now yes.
4( You reviewed that?
A( Yes.
4( And you also sir reviewed trial $$ you reviewed ,r. Futnam"s o&enin+ statement( is that ri+ht?
A( And yours as well yes.
4( And is that common $$ well strike that. )t"s not common *ecause you"ve never come to court like
this and $$ and 8ualified as an e2&ert witness have you sir?
A( As ) testified )"ve only a&&eared in G.K. ta2 court ) was 8ualified in that realm.
4( Let me ask you a+ain sir. /ave you ever come to a court like this with a #ury and 8ualified as an
e2&ert witness yes or no?
A( ?ot like this settin+.
4( )s the answer no sir?
A( !he answer is no.
4( ?ow let"s +et *ack to the trial testimony you reviewed. !ell me all the trial testimony you reviewed.
A( A+ain this is off the to& of my head so ) mi+ht *e missin+ &eo&le.

4( -ecause you don"t have a list ri+ht?
A( ) didn"t *rin+ a list with me ) don"t have a list.
4( Okay. You didn"t *rin+ it or you don"t have it?
A( ) $$ *oth. ) don"t have a list ) didn"t *rin+ a list.
4( And you didn"t make any summary of any of the trial testimony did you sir?
A( <orrect.
4( Okay. .ould you tell us the names of who you reviewed?
A( Gon+aware Fhilli&s Schnoll 'aye Katherine Jackson ,e+len Erk 'ormu@is.
4( )s that it?
A( Off the to& of my head.
4( Anywhere in your head can you think of anythin+ else?
A( ) cannot think of anythin+ else.
4( Okay. ?ow you reviewed the e2hi*its to ,r. Erk"s de&osition correct?
A( <orrect.
4( Okay. %id you review *ill*oard ma+a@ine statistics?
A( !o the e2tent they were incor&orated as e2hi*its and they were yes.
4( And you relied on the *ill*oard records re+ardin+ attendance at concerts didn"t you?
A( .ell in re+ards to this matter yes.
4( ?o. Sir )"m only askin+ you a*out this case. Okay?
A( ?o ) $$ ) $$
4( %id you review *ill*oard ma+a@ine num*ers re+ardin+ concerts for this case?
A( Yes.
4( !hat"s relia*le isn"t it sir?
A( Are you askin+ me if *ill*oard fi+ures are relia*le?
4( Yes what you relied on in this case yes ) am.

A( ) relied on them. )n my e2&erience they tend to *e a *it inflated.
4( .ell why don"t you tell me a*out that sir. You"ve never &romoted a concert have you?
A( )"m not a concert &romoter.
4( You"ve never &roduced a concert have you sir?
A( !hat"s correct.
4( You"ve never re&resented an artist for a concert tour have you sir?
A( ?o. !he folks that re&resents artists normally hire us.
'r( +)*ish& <ould he answer the 8uestion &lease your honor?
Ju%ge& /e did answer it.
A( !he answer is no.
'r( +)*ish& Okay.
4( And you"ve never worked for a record com&any have you sir?
A( ?o. !hey"re our clients.
4( And you"ve never $$
A( )"m sorry. Sorry. ) want to +o *ack to your &revious 8uestion. ) did actually s&end a summer in
colle+e workin+ at ,.<.A( Becords *ut not formally.
4( And sir did you do any royalty audits when you were there sir?
A( )"ve not &erformed a royalty audit.
4( Ever?
A( ?o.
4( Okay. And you"ve never $$ and *y the way that chart that you had ,r. Jackson say all of his
records where did you +et that that information?
A( Your 8uestions directed to ,r. Erk.
4( ?o. ,y 8uestion is directed to you sir. You have made a chart with record sales information?

A( <orrect.
4( %id you verify whether that was true or not?
A( ) want to *e clear. ) was answerin+ your &revious 8uestion. !he fi+ures were from your 8uestions to
,r. Erk. ) didn"t verify those fi+ures. )n fact some of them seemed a *it off( *ut ) relied on that
testimony for sake of creatin+ the chart.
4( Sir where do you +o to find out what record sales are?
A( )t really de&ends. )t de&ends on if you *elieve claim sales or B.).A. Sales.
4( B.).A( what does that stand for?
A( )t"s a trade or+ani@ation.
4( .hat"s it stand for sir?
A( H1 &ercent of the time it"s one of those acronyms ) can"t +et strai+ht. Becordin+ institute somethin+.
4( You don"t know what it stands for sir?
A( Feo&le normally use B.).A( no different than ,.F.A.A( )t"s #ust an acronym.
4( Sir do you know what it stands for?
A( ) don"t recall.
4( /ow many al*ums do you have to sell to +o &latinum?
A( 3 million.
4( /ow many do you have to sell to +o +old?
A( 411111.
4( /ow many do you have to sell to +o diamond?
A( 31 million. )"m sorry. !o *e clear those would *e certified units #ust to *e clear under the B.).A( as
o&&osed to claimed units which is a different su*+rou&.
4( And the lar+est sellin+ al*um in the world history is ;!hriller;( is that ri+ht sir?
A( ) *elieve that"s correct.
4( And how many did it sell?
A( .ell the chart stated a*out E4 million.

'r( +)*ish& /ow many $$ your honor could we a&&roach the *ench for a minute &lease?
'r( +)*ish& Your honor ,s. Stron+ kee&s lookin+ over at me makin+ faces makin+ noises tryin+ to
disru&t me. )"ve looked at you three times to do somethin+ a*out it( and if the court"s not +oin+ to do
anythin+ then )"m +oin+ to have to take matters into my own hand and do somethin+. She should *e
admonished to sto& that. )t"s very distractin+ turnin+ at me makin+ faces and comments to me durin+
my e2amination. Last 'riday ) was chastised for not even makin+ an im&ro&er comment to the court
which you thou+ht ) did and ) was chastised for that. ,s. Stron+ continues to do it to me to disru&t
and u&set me. And if it ha&&ens a+ain )"m tellin+ the court )"m +oin+ to take action myself.
Ju%ge& .ell no you"re not +oin+ to take $$ you"re not +oin+ to take any action.
'r( +)*ish& )"ve asked you to do somethin+.
Ju%ge& .ait a minute. You"re not +oin+ to take any action that ) don"t +ive you &ermission to do first
of all.
'r( +)*ish& )"m askin+ you to &lease do somethin+.
Ju%ge& ) understand and )"m +oin+ to address it ri+ht now. ,s. Stron+?
's( Str-*g& Your honor ) have not made any comments. )"ve sat throu+h +ivin+ several e2aminations
with hearin+ ,r. Fanish in front of me audi*ly commentin+ on every 8uestion turnin+ around in his
chair and starin+ at me. ) never said a word a*out it your honor until the #ury left and you asked what
ha&&ened. ) never commented. )"m not makin+ any faces at ,r. Fanish. ) look at ,r. Fanish
occasionally. ) will try not to do that if that causes a &ro*lem your honor( *ut )"ve not said a word to
,r. Fanish )"ve not done anythin+ under my *reath unlike what ha&&ens with Flaintiffs" counsel
'r( +)*ish& !hat"s not true.

's( Str-*g& So ) really do not a&&reciate the alle+ations that are com&letely unfounded.
'r( +)*ish& Your honor ) looked at you several times and &ointed to her when she was doin+ that and
she"s $$
Ju%ge& ) didn"t hear anythin+. She has a much softer voice than you do.
's( Str-*g& ) didn"t say a word your honor.
'r( +)*ish& !hat"s not true and she"s doin+ it on &ur&ose.
Ju%ge& ,r. -oyle what"s +oin+ on?

'r( B-yle& She $$ there"s a lot of smilin+ lau+hin+ and +runtin+ and lookin+ over at me -rian the
Ju%ge& All ri+ht. .ell #ust $$ can you kee& your direction kind of forward( resist you know any $$
's( Str-*g& A*solutely. ) *elieve all of us look at the #urors occasionally as we are all tau+ht to do
your honor. -ut certainly.
'r( +)*ish& -y who? .ho tau+ht you to do that? !hat"s another im&ro&er thin+.
Ju%ge& !here"s nothin+ im&ro&er a*out that.
'r( +)*ish& She"s lookin+ at me your honor( and if she does it a+ain )"m +oin+ to do somethin+.
Ju%ge& ) understand.
's( Ste..i*s& Your honor #ust for the record ) want to make sure you"re not +ivin+ ,r. Fanish
&ermission to do somethin+ if he $$
Ju%ge& Of course not. ) made it clear to him.
'r( +ut*),& /e #ust threatened to do the same.
'r( +)*ish& )"m tryin+ to make the court aware of what"s +oin+ on. )f it doesn"t sto& and the court is
una*le to make it sto& we"ll see.
Ju%ge& ,r. Fanish there is no ;we"ll see; a*out anythin+. You can ask to a&&roach side*ar and ) will
deal with it. -ut there"s no ;we"ll see; a*out anythin+. Okay? ) think your voice carries a lot further( so
if ) hear you under your *reath it"s much easier to hear you than her. )f she"s doin+ somethin+ you
know &erha&s ) #ust don"t hear what"s +oin+ on. -ut )"m tellin+ her now kee& $$ kee& $$
's( Str-*g& ) did not make any comments and ) will not do so.
'r( +)*ish& She"s +runtin+.
's( Str-*g& Oh my +oodness.
'r( +)*ish& Yes you are. ) mean you can lie a*out it( *ut we all saw you do it.
'r( B-yle& You *oth are. -ut your honor $$
'r( +ut*),& ,e too?
'r( B-yle& $$ ,r. Futnam and ,s. Stron+ it"s like a little s8ueakfest of +runtin+ and lau+hin+. And the
#ury will see them. )f they think that"s their techni8ue to try to discredit ,r. Fanish *y doin+ that that"s
at their own &eril *ut it is distractin+ to the 8uestions.
'r( +ut*),& 'or the sake of the record we feel no need or desire to discredit ,r. Fanish in any
measure in his &resent 8uestionin+ of the witness nor are we tryin+ to do so.

'r( B-yle& ) note for the record the smirk on his face.
'r( +)*ish& .hich he continues to do and he thinks that"s funny his little smirk.
's( Ste..i*s& Sometimes &eo&le smile your honor. ) don"t think that"s distractin+ or offensive. )
&ersonally yesterday could not even hear ,s. Stron+"s testimony 5sic6 *ecause ,r. Fanish"s comments
were so audi*le. )"m sittin+ a few feet further *ack *ut ) do not *elieve these attorneys are intentionally
distractin+ ,r. Fanish. !hey"ll do their *est to not look at him.
Ju%ge& %on"t look in his direction no +runtin+ or +roanin+ or anythin+.
's( Str-*g& ) don"t think there"s any sound like that $$
Ju%ge& ,r. Fanish same to you.
'r( +)*ish& ) didn"t do one sin+le thin+ yesterday. ) didn"t talk.
's( Str-*g& !hat would not *e true.
'r( +)*ish& Okay. .e"ll see what ha&&ens.
("he /-ll-0i*g r-cee%i*gs 0ere hel% i* -e* c-urt1 i* the rese*ce -/ the 2ur-rs$&
Ju%ge& You may continue.
'r( +)*ish& ?ow sir in readin+ all the materials in this case you understand the %efendants say that
they"re not res&onsi*le for any dama+es in this case correct?
's( Str-*g& O*#ection( outside the sco&e of his o&inions to the e2tent he"s seekin+ a le+al conclusion
your honor in terms of lia*ility.
Ju%ge& Overruled.
A( <an you $$ can you restate the 8uestion &lease?
'r( +)*ish& <an ) have it read *ack?
Ju%ge& Yes.
(the 6uesti-* 0)s re)%$
A( )"m not entirely sure what the %efendants have stated they are res&onsi*le for.
4( Sir you listened to ,r. Futnam"s o&enin+ statement you read it didn"t you?
A( !hat"s correct.

4( And you read the summary #ud+ment motion didn"t you sir?
A( .e"re referencin+ the documents *ack and forth that $$
4( Yes.
A( Yes ) read that.
4( And ,r. Futnam said they"re not res&onsi*le and they owe nothin+ didn"t he sir?
A( )t"s &ossi*le. ) don"t really recall focusin+ on those s&ecifics as&ects of the ar+ument. ) was asked
here for a very s&ecific task.
4( So as far as you know then the %efendants may *e admittin+ that they owe dama+es( is that ri+ht
A( ) don"t *elieve the %efendants are admittin+ that.
4( Okay. So they"re not admittin+ it( *ut #ust in case you"re here in case they find they do owe money
to say whatever they owe is minimal( is that ri+ht?
A( ) don"t think you"re a&&ro&riately characteri@in+ my o&inion. ) was asked to offer an o&inion
re+ardin+ a Flaintiffs" dama+es analysis which ) came to find s&eculative.
4( You don"t have any o&inions of your own do you sir?
A( ) don"t understand the 8uestion. ) have an o&inion with res&ect to ,ichael Jackson"s future work
income. )"m ha&&y to share it.
4( And your o&inion as re+ards to ,r. Jackson"s future work income is that he would earn no money(
is that ri+ht?
A( ,y o&inion is that it is s&eculative to &ro#ect he would earn income from work as distin+uished
from income from other sources like his catalo+s and the like.
'r( +)*ish& Okay. Sir $$ your honor could ) $$
Ju%ge& Yes. You need $$ do you want it re$read?
'r( +)*ish& ) want him to answer the 8uestions.
Ju%ge& Be$read the 8uestion.
(the 6uesti-* 0)s re)%$
'r( +ut*),& And then he &rovided his o&inion your honor. /e +ave the answer.

'r( +)*ish& )"ll re&hrase the 8uestion.
'r( +ut*),& Should she re$read the answer?
'r( +)*ish& .e"ve +ot two of them +oin+ here at once coachin+ the witness. ) would ask that they
make le+al o*#ections and not try to coach the witness with the answer.
Ju%ge& !here"s no coachin+.
'r( +ut*),& !here"s no coachin+.
Ju%ge& ,r. Futnam let me make the rulin+s.
'r( +)*ish& Gee@.
4( Sir your o&inion is that ,ichael Jackson had he not died would not earn any money workin+
A( !hat"s not my o&inion.
4( Okay. !ell us how much money would ,ichael Jackson have earned in his workin+ concerts? /ow
much would he earn in concerts in the future sir?
A( ,y o&inion is that it is s&eculative to &ro#ect what he would have earned.
4( Okay. <ould he have earned money in the future sir ,r. Jackson?
A( 'rom workin+? ) #ust want to clarify your 8uestion.
4( Yes.
A( Sure. Anythin+ is &ossi*le.
4( And you can"t tell us $$ you don"t have an o&inion as to the difference *etween earnin+ ca&acity and
loss of earnin+s do you sir?
A( ) understand earnin+ ca&acity relates to e2&ected earnin+s from work in this matter.
4( Sir do you remem*er +ivin+ a de&osition in this case?
A( .ell ) don"t want to $$ yes ) do.
4( And did you testify under oath in your de&osition that you have no o&inion a*out ,r. Jackson"s loss
of earnin+ ca&acity yes or no?
A( ) think ) testified that at that time ) didn"t want to +et into le+al definitions or a le+al *ack and forth
*ecause )"m not an attorney.

'r( +)*ish& Sir $$ can we ask the 8uestion to *e read *ack a+ain? And )"d ask that the witness &lease
your honor answer the 8uestion.
Ju%ge& Be$read it.
(the 6uesti-* 0)s re)%6
A( ) $$ ) *elieve ) testified ) was concerned a*out le+al definitions and ) was uncomforta*le answerin+
that 8uestion.
Ju%ge& So does that mean no then? 'or whatever $$ whether you were uncomforta*le or whatever it
was no you didn"t have an o&inion concernin+ earnin+ ca&acity?
A( ) $$ ) *elieve that"s what ) testified at the time.
Ju%ge& !hat you don"t have an o&inion?
A( -ut to the e2tent that ,r. Erk"s analysis relates to earnin+ ca&acity of course then ) have an o&inion.
) was #ust concerned a*out the le+al definitions in this matter as )"m not an attorney.
'r( +)*ish& Let"s &lay the de&osition. Flay 0E0 lines 33 and 3>.
's( Str-*g& <an ) look at it a moment *efore you &lay it? -ecause ) have a feelin+ $$
'r( +)*ish& ) haven"t &layed it yet.
's( Str-*g& .hat was the &a+e num*er?
'r( +)*ish& 0E0 lines 33 to >>.
's( Str-*g& %o you have the testimony? )t"s not the same 8uestion that he"s askin+.
Ju%ge& ?o ) don"t.
's( Str-*g& Should we +et you a co&y?
'r( +)*ish& Let me ask one more 8uestion to make it &erfect.
4( You understand there"s a distinction *etween loss of income $$ or loss of earnin+ ca&acity and loss
of earnin+s correct?
A( ) have a +eneral understandin+ as a lay&erson yes. ) couldn"t $$

4( And you"re not here to offer an o&inion a*out the distinction *etween earnin+ ca&acity and loss of
earnin+s are you sir?
A( On the distinction s&ecifically? )"m not here to offer that form a le+al o&inion no.
4( And you"re not here to offer any testimony re+ardin+ the loss of earnin+ ca&acity in any way sha&e
or form are you sir?
A( ,y o&inion relates to ,r. Erk"s analysis which ) *elieve s&eaks to earnin+ ca&acity so my o&inion
relates to earnin+ ca&acity.
4( Okay. And earnin+ ca&acity means what someone could earn ri+ht?
A( Earnin+ ca&acity means to me what someone could *e reasona*ly e2&ected to earn.
4( Okay. .ell you don"t know what the definition of ;earnin+ ca&acity; is do you sir?
A( ;Earnin+ ca&acity; to me means what someone could *e reasona*ly e2&ected to earn.
4( .here did you +et that definition sir?
A( !hat"s my understandin+.

4( .ho +ave it to you?
A( )t"s a $$ it"s a su*#ect that )"ve discussed with the attorneys in this matter.
4( .ell have you seen the le+al #ury instruction for earnin+ ca&acity in this case?
A( ) *elieve so.
's( Str-*g& O*#ection to the e2tent he"s su++estin+ there actually is a #ury instruction in this case. )
don"t *elieve your honor has ruled on #ury instructions yet.
Ju%ge& ) haven"t ruled on #ury instructions true.
'r( +)*ish& -ut he talked to the attorneys a*out it and there is an instruction.
Ju%ge& Okay. /e"s talked to the attorneys. You can e2&lore that.
4( !ell me sir what is the le+al definition of loss of earnin+ ca&acity?

A( Loss of e2&ected earnin+ $$
's( Str-*g& Your honor #ust o*#ection to the e2tent that he"s askin+ this witness to o&ine a*out what
the law is. You will instruct the #ury on the law and he"s not here to recite the law for the #ury.
Ju%ge& Okay. /e"s not to recite the law to you. )"ll *e +ivin+ you the law at the end of the case. -ut )"m

+oin+ to allow counsel to e2&lore if he understands what the definition is *ecause some*ody else told
him what the le+al definition was he read it somewhere. )"m +oin+ to allow counsel to do that( *ut
ultimately )"m +oin+ to +ive you what the definition is.
'r( +)*ish& Earnin+ ca&acity.
4( !here"s differences *etween earnin+ ca&acity and loss of earnin+s isn"t there sir?
's( Str-*g& And same o*#ections your honor. )f ) can have a runnin+ o*#ection on this.
Ju%ge& You can have a runnin+ o*#ection. Overruled. ) instructed them already.
'r( +)*ish& %o you understand the 8uestion sir?
A( You"ve asked me if there"s a difference *etween the two of them( and as a lay&erson ) understand
there is a difference *etween a loss of earnin+s and a loss of earnin+ ca&acity.
4( So are you testifyin+ here as lay&erson or as a financial e2&ert?
A( )"m testifyin+ as a financial e2&ert and not a le+al e2&ert.
4( Bi+ht. .ell sir in fact you"ve never come to court and +iven an o&inion a*out someone"s loss of
income in a wron+ful death case have you sir?
A( ) have not done that.
4( And you"ve never assessed some*ody"s loss of income under the le+al statutes in a case other than
this in a wron+ful death case have you sir?
A( ?ot in a wron+ful death case.
4( )n a &ersonal in#ury case you"ve never a&&lied the standards for a loss of income for some*ody
that"s *een in#ured in a case that comes to court like this have you sir?
A( )n a &ersonal in#ury case no.
4( Bi+ht. And sir you"ve never testified a*out 8uantification of dama+es have you sir?
A( .ell much of the work )"ve *een de&osed re+ardin+ and testified re+ardin+ has involved
8uantitative analysis forecastin+ income forecastin+ risks and so forth. And ) *elieve ) testified in my
de&osition that analyses &layed into a dama+es calculation.
4( Sir $$ can ) have the 8uestion read *ack and $$ )"ll ask it a+ain. /ave you ever testified in a case
re+ardin+ 8uantification of dama+es yes or no?
A( ) *elieve so yes.
'r( +)*ish& Okay. Let"s look at your de&osition. And that will *e startin+ at &a+e >HA line 30 $$ let"s
start with that.

's( Str-*g& Okay. >HA line 30 to what? )s that volume >?
'r( +)*ish& )t"s actually &a+e >HH line 33 to >0 e2cludin+ ,s. Stron+"s o*#ections. <an ) &lay it now
your honor?
's( Str-*g& ) don"t know that it"s com&lete. !here"s more on 011 down to >3.
'r( +)*ish& You can read that yourself. )"d like to #ust +et some answers here.
's( Str-*g& Your honor ) don"t *elieve that it"s com&lete.
'r( +ut*),& )t"s his de&osition your honor starts on &a+e >HH and they"re askin+ to &lay $$
Ju%ge& .hat volume?
's( Str-*g& )t"s volume > your honor.
Ju%ge& Fa+e >HH?
'r( +ut*),& Yes your honor.
Ju%ge& Okay. And what $$
'r( +)*ish& ) want to read 33 throu+h >0 the e2act 8uestion ) #ust asked him.
Ju%ge& And you want to read to what?
's( Str-*g& 011 down to >3.
'r( +ut*),& Just continuin+ on your honor.
'r( +)*ish& ?o. ?o.
Ju%ge& ) don"t think they"re related.
'r( +)*ish& !hey"re not related. And ,s. Stron+ is coachin+ the witness too.
Ju%ge& ?o ,r. Fanish she"s not.
'r( +)*ish& .hat?
Ju%ge& Okay. You may read what you want to read.
("he /-ll-0i*g cli -/ Briggs 7i%e- %e-siti-* testi,-*y 0)s l)ye%$&
Q. #o you don&t know as you sit here today whether you, in any of the depositions you&$e gi$en
testimony, testified regarding (uantification of damages?

A. In each of the %% my recollection is that in each of the cases I ha$e testified there has !een a
(uantitati$e analysis. As I sit here today, I cannot say with certainty if that was part of a damages
aspect of a case or some other aspect of a case.
4( ?ow sir you"ve never done any &ro#ection of loss of earnin+s of anyone in any case ever have
A( ) have not done &ro#ection of loss of earnin+s in any case.
4( So the answer to that 8uestion is yes correct?
A( ) have not done $$ ) have not done that &ro#ection.
4( And sir $$ and you"ve never sir in a case ever +iven an o&inion or assessed the loss of earnin+
ca&acity of anyone have you sir?
A( ) have not.
4( And sir you told us you"ve *een workin+ for 34 years in your field( is that ri+ht?
A( !hat"s correct.
4( And that"s 34 years doin+ all as&ects of the work you do ri+ht?
A( !hat"s correct.
4( And in 34 years how many $$ do you work 41 weeks a year sir?
A( Sometimes more.
4( So do you work 44 weeks a year?
A( ?o.
4( So have you $$ do you work 4> weeks a year sir?
A( ) certainly have.
4( Okay. So how many $$ in 34 years in all 34 years you"ve worked 4> weeks a year is that what
you"re tellin+ us?
A( !hat"s not what ) said.
4( .hat"s the avera+e over 34 years?
A( ) would +uess 41.

4( Okay. So 41 times 34 that"s 941 weeks $$ ri+ht? $$ that you"ve worked in your work life so far?
A( Okay.
4( %o you a+ree with that?
A( Yes.
4( Okay. And you told us you"ve *een in a thousand entertainment &ro#ects where you"ve done
forecasts( is that ri+ht sir?
A( !hat"s correct.
4( And how many other &ro#ects have you worked on other than entertainment?
A( Fro*a*ly > or 011.
4( So you"ve worked on 3011 &ro#ects in 941 weeks( is that ri+ht sir?
A( !hat"s &ro*a*ly ri+ht.
4( And so the avera+e would *e a*out a half a week &er &ro#ect?
A( Oh a*solutely not. You"re #ust takin+ one divided *y another. !hat"s not $$
4( So the answer is no ri+ht?
A( ?o.
4( So can you tell us sir one of your o&inions you have on your sheet $$ let"s &ull that u&. !hat"s
e2hi*it $$ let"s see. !he first &a+e e2hi*it 31:4. ?o that"s not 31:4. )"m sorry. !hat is e2hi*it num*er $$
e2hi*it 3 to your de&osition. !hat"s e2hi*it num*er 3>H9H defense e2hi*it. %o you have it there sir?
%o you have it in front of you?
A( ) do.
4( You"ve yellowed certain thin+s. Are those critical to you?
A( !hey"re reminders.
4( Okay. And so sir in one of your o&inions as to why ,ichael Jackson would not +et any
endorsements you have $$ one of your *ases for your o&inion is de*t( is that ri+ht sir? Let"s &ut that u&.
)f we +o down under ;endorsements; *ullet &oints ;challen+es; you have ;dru+ usa+e child a*use.;
Are you sayin+ he was convicted of child a*use sir?
A( )"m not sayin+ that. !hat"s not correct.
4( .ell you wrote that there didn"t you ;child a*use;?

A( !o *e clear this is a reminder for me.
4( .ell no. -ut let"s +o to the to& and see what it says on the to&. %oes it say ;reminder; anywhere
A( ) testified to this durin+ my de&osition very clearly that this was a series of *ullet &oints intended as
reminders. !his is not a narrative o&inion.
4( <an you answer my 8uestion sir? %oes it say ;reminder;?
's( Str-*g& O*#ection.
Ju%ge& /old on.
's( Str-*g& O*#ection( ar+umentative. /e has *een answerin+ the 8uestions.
'r( +)*ish& /e hasn"t answered.
Ju%ge& ) don"t even remem*er what the 8uestion was.
'r( +)*ish& !he 8uestion is sir tell us is this your o&inions re+ardin+ the dama+e analysis of
Flaintiffs" e2&ert Erk 'ormu@is o&inions re+ardin+ the income +enerated *y E.,.J.? )s that what this
is sir?
A( !hat"s what the to& of this &iece of &a&er reads yes.
4( %oes it say ;reminder; anywhere in the title?
A( )n the title no it does not.
4( %oes it say it anywhere in the document?
A( ) don"t see the word ;reminder.;
4( Let"s +o down to where we were now and let"s look at these ;<hallen+es with ma#or advertisers
+iven history.; And one of them is de*t. %o you see that sir?
A( Okay. ) $$ the word ;de*t; a&&ears in that line.
4( %id you write that sir?
A( ) ty&ed that in yes.
4( And that"s one of your *ases for your o&inion ri+ht?
A( ) $$ ) would like to 8ualify the answer yes that $$ ,ichael Jackson"s history of si+nificant de*t
fi+ured into my o&inion as to why he would encounter challen+es in securin+ endorsements.
4( Okay. .hat"s the value of his A!I <atalo+ sir?

's( Str-*g& O*#ection your honor. Side*ar.
Ju%ge& ?o. ?o need.
'r( +)*ish& !here"s no need for a side*ar.
4( .hat"s the value sir?
's( Str-*g& O*#ection( outside the sco&e of his o&inion your honor. )t"s an issue that involves
discovery. !here"s a history there your honor.
'r( +)*ish& Your honor it"s not *eyond anythin+.
Ju%ge& .ell ) don"t know. %id you consider that in connection with your o&inions?
'r( +)*ish& /is de*t.
A( ) considered the s&ecific testimony re+ardin+ ,ichael Jackson"s si+nificant de*t in formin+ my
Ju%ge& ?o. )"m askin+ thou+h if you considered the catalo+ the $$ the value of the catalo+.

'r( +)*ish& ,y 8uestion is this. /e"s written down that ,ichael Jackson has challen+es with de*t.
,y 8uestion is he wasn"t in de*t and what"s the value of the A!I <atalo+ which he knows.
Ju%ge& )"m #ust askin+ him if in connection with his work he considered that.
'r( +)*ish& Assets.
Ju%ge& %id you consider that at all *efore we +et into an actual num*er?
A( ?o. ,y analysis was focused on work income not assets.
Ju%ge& Okay.
4( .ell how do you know if he"s in de*t if you don"t consider his assets?
A( !here"s si+nificant testimony on the record from his *usiness mana+ers on this $$ in this re+ard.
4( -ut you don"t know if that"s true. %o you know the value of the catalo+ sir yes or no?
's( Str-*g& Your honor $$
'r( +)*ish& Just a yes or no.
's( Str-*g& $$ can we have a side*ar?

Ju%ge& %o you have an o*#ection?
's( Str-*g& Outside the sco&e of his o&inion.
Ju%ge& ?ot that.
's( Str-*g& !here"s confidential issues.
Ju%ge& Asked and answered. /e"s already said he didn"t so $$
4( %o you know the value sir yes or no?
Ju%ge& Asked and answered. /e doesn"t know.
'r( +)*ish& /e does know. /e does a*solutely know your honor. /e hasn"t answered that 8uestion.
Ju%ge& Asked and answered.
'r( +)*ish& ?o no no. Let me ask the 8uestion and then he"s not +oin+ to +ive $$ )"m #ust askin+ him
's( Str-*g& Your honor $$
'r( +)*ish& ?o your honor. ?o no. /e does know the value.
Ju%ge& ) don"t want you to ar+ue with me.
4( %o you know the value of the A!I <atalo+?
Ju%ge& )"m +oin+ to sustain that o*#ection. You have to ask another 8uestion.
'r( +)*ish& .hen we +et to the *reak ) want to take it u& *ecause $$
4( Sir you don"t know what ,r. Jackson"s de*t is *ecause you didn"t assess his assets did you sir?
A( !he reference to de*t here relates to the testimony on record.
Ju%ge& Answer the 8uestion that"s asked.
's( Str-*g& O*#ection to the e2tent it calls for anythin+ outside the sco&e of this case your honor.
Ju%ge& Overruled.
A( Flease restate the 8uestion.
4( You don"t know ,ichael Jackson"s true de*t *ecause you didn"t assess his assets did you sir?
A( ) know ,ichael $$ no. ) know ,ichael Jackson $$ )"m really $$ )"m sorry. )"m havin+ trou*le
answerin+ this 8uestion.

Ju%ge& You"re confused?
A( )"m not confused. )t relates to the issue ,s. Stron+ would care to discuss with you.
'r( +)*ish& ?o no. /e"s +iven an o&inion your honor ri+ht here that ,ichael Jackson couldn"t have
endorsements *ecause he"s in de*t. )"m entitled to challen+e that o&inion that he wasn"t and he knows
the true facts that he wasn"t in de*t and that his assets were much +reater.
Ju%ge& ) think it"s fair to ask if you don"t know what the assets are how would you know if someone is
in de*t? !hat"s a fair 8uestion.
'r( +)*ish& And he knows what they are.
's( Str-*g& <an we &lease have a side*ar your honor?
Ju%ge& ?o. /e can answer the 8uestion.
4( <an you answer the 8uestion sir?
A( <an you &lease restate the 8uestion?
4( Sure. You did not $$ strike that. You know what ,ichael Jackson"s assets are don"t you sir?
's( Str-*g& O*#ection( va+ue.
Ju%ge& Sustained.
4( .ell sir do you know that ,ichael Jackson had assets that had value?
A( Yes.
4( And you know that the assets at least one of them well e2ceeded the value of that asset any de*t
that he had don"t you sir?
's( Str-*g& A+ain o*#ection your honor. !his is $$ ) re8uest $$ there"s confidential information that"s
not *een shared with the &arties in this case that we"d like to address with you your honor.
Ju%ge& Overruled.
'r( +)*ish& You can answer sir.
's( Str-*g& .ell your honor he"s $$ there"s confidential information that he"s not &ermitted to
disclose your honor. /e"s $$
Ju%ge& )"m not allowin+ him to disclose anythin+ e2ce&t whether he"s aware it e2ceeds the de*t. !hat"s
all )"m askin+.
's( Str-*g& Your honor $$

Ju%ge& ,s. Stron+ $$
'r( +)*ish& She"s made it five times.
's( Str-*g& $$ he $$
Ju%ge& )"ve made my rulin+.
4( <an you answer the 8uestion &lease sir?
A( )"m very concerned a*out client confidences even in answerin+ that 8uestion includin+ attorney
&rivile+e matters.
4( You"re an e2&ert witnesses sir in this case. Your firm is +ettin+ &aid u& to C911111. You have
written on this document that ,r. Jackson had a challen+e to +et any endorsements *ecause of his de*t(
isn"t that true sir?
A( !hat was a *asis of my o&inion( and yes ) have written it on this document.
4( Okay. And to make a true assessment of whether he was in de*t you would com&are the assets to
the lia*ilities wouldn"t you sir?
A( As an a*stract and +eneral conce&t yes $$
4( And you know sir don"t you that ,r. Jackson had assets worth well in e2cess of his de*t when he
died don"t you sir?
's( Str-*g& Same o*#ections.
Ju%ge& Overruled.
A( )n con#unction with that matter ) do not have that knowled+e.
4( ?o no. You know sir throu+h your own knowled+e that ,r. Jackson had assets well in e2cess of
his de*t when you wrote that on this sheet don"t you sir?
's( Str-*g& O*#ection. Same o*#ection. )t"s confidential information that the Estate of ,ichael
Jackson has not &rovided to us in discovery in this matter your honor?
'r( +)*ish& ?o.
Ju%ge& Overruled.
's( Str-*g& /e doesn"t have counsel here your honor.
'r( +)*ish& She kee&s o*#ectin+.

Ju%ge& ,s. Stron+ )"ve overruled every one of your o*#ections. )t"s the same +rounds.
's( Str-*g& Gnderstood. Gnfortunately ) don"t *elieve that $$
Ju%ge& You don"t have to *elieve. You #ust have to listen and a*ide.
'r( +)*ish& )"m +oin+ to ask that she sto& talkin+.
's( Str-*g& ) understand. -ut the witness is in an uncomforta*le &osition *ecause there is information
he can"t reveal.
Ju%ge& Let"s +o to side*ar.
's( Str-*g& Your honor there"s an issue $$
Ju%ge& ?o. You"re +oin+ to listen to me. ) have made a rulin+. )"ve listened to every sin+le o*#ection
and every +round and )"ve overruled every one. )"m not +oin+ to listen to any more.
's( Str-*g& Okay your honor.
Ju%ge& ) don"t care how uncomforta*le your witness is. .itnesses sometimes *ecome uncomforta*le
with 8uestions that are *ein+ asked. !hey need to answer them. )"ve overruled every one of your
o*#ections. ) don"t want to hear any more.
's( Str-*g& )t"s confidential information.
Ju%ge& ) don"t want to hear any more. )"ve heard your o*#ection.
's( Str-*g& /e can"t answer the 8uestion.
Ju%ge& )"ve heard your o*#ection )"m overrulin+ it.
's( Str-*g& -ut you haven"t heard me. <an ) &lease e2&lain the *asis your honor?
's( Ste..i*s& /e may *e sued.
's( Str-*g& /e"s su*#ect to confidentiality in another matter. )t"s not this case your honor.
Ju%ge& !hen he can #ust say ;)"m not +oin+ to answer.;
's( Str-*g& <an ) let him know $$ can ) s&eak with him?
's( Ste..i*s& <an we have a moment to $$
's( Str-*g& ) don"t want him to *e sued *y the Estate of ,ichael Jackson.

'r( +ut*),& /e was se&arately hired *y them in a different matter.
("he /-ll-0i*g r-cee%i*gs 0ere hel% i* -e* c-urt1 i* the rese*ce -/ the 2ur-rs$&
'r( +)*ish& Your honor ) would ask the 8uestion *e re$read and the witness *e instructed to answer.
Ju%ge& Be$read the 8uestion &lease.
5the 8uestion was read6
Ju%ge& You may answer the 8uestion.
A( ) have knowled+e re+ardin+ $$
4( Yes or no?
A( ) do not know that.
4( So you don"t know that ,r. Jackson had assets worth more than 0 or : or 411 million when you
wrote that sir?
A( You"re askin+ a different 8uestion now &lacin+ value on assets and ) $$ ) really do not feel
comforta*le s&eakin+ to that su*#ect.
'r( +)*ish& Flease answer the 8uestion sir.
Ju%ge& )f you know the answer answer it( if you don"t you don"t. )t"s #ust a yes or no.
A( )"m sorry. <an you &lease re&eat the 8uestion?
4( Sure. You know $$ you have knowled+e of ,r. Jackson"s assets *efore he died don"t you sir?
A( Some of ,r. Jackson"s assets yes.
4( .ell you have knowled+e of his most valua*le asset as far as you know correct?
A( !o the *est of my knowled+e.
4( And that asset is worth well in e2cess of the de*t that"s alle+ed in the de&ositions that you read in
this case and you know that don"t you sir?
A( ) do not know that.
4( Okay. %id you value that asset sir?
Ju%ge& )f we"re +oin+ to +et into num*ers )"m +oin+ to sustain any num*ers.

'r( +)*ish& )"m #ust askin+ did he value it.
's( Str-*g& 'or this case or for another matter?
'r( +)*ish& At any time. /e"s testifyin+ here.
Ju%ge& Any time.
A( Yes.
4( And you valued that asset and without tellin+ me the num*ers it"s $$ you valued it at well in e2cess
of 411 million didn"t you sir?
Ju%ge& You may answer.
A( )"m sorry. )"m havin+ trou*le here. )"m really tryin+ to &reserve client &rivile+e and confidentiality.
's( Str-*g& And to *e clear it"s not our client.
'r( +)*ish& )t doesn"t matter. /e"s *een offered as a witness. /e needs to answer this 8uestion.
's( Str-*g& 'or this issue he was very clear at his de&osition that this is not &art of his o&inion not
related to his o&inion in any way.
Ju%ge& )t may not *e *ut ) think it"s fair cross$e2amination. You may answer
A( Okay. <an you &lease clarify what you mean with res&ect to ;valuation;? Are you referrin+ to value
+ross of de*t or net of de*t a&&reciatin+ that there is a si+nificant difference?
4( .ell let"s take +ross.
A( Okay. <an you restate your 8uestion then?
4( You don"t remem*er it?
A( ) was focused on the *ack and forth and ) want to +ive you the *est answer &ossi*le.
'r( +)*ish& /ow a*out if ) have it read *ack?
Ju%ge& Yes.
4( !he asset that you valued of ,r. Jackson the +ross value that you &laced on it was well in e2cess of
the re&orted de*ts that you read in the de&ositions correct sir?
A( ) don"t recall the s&ecific num*ers referenced in the de&ositions *ut $$ ) do not have that
knowled+e. ) do not *elieve that is the case.
4( Okay. So the asset $$ okay. .ell the de&osition $$ you don"t remem*er what the de*t num*ers that
you reviewed were in this case?

A( ) have a +eneral recollection.
4( .hat is your +eneral recollection?
A( ) *elieve $$ ) *elieve testimony was that de*t associated with !he Sony A!I Asset was on the order
of C:11 million.
4( !hat was the de*t?
A( !hat"s my recollection yes.
4( Okay. And when you assessed the value of the asset the +ross value of the asset are you tellin+ us
that it was not in e2cess of the de*t in this case?
A( You"re instructin+ me to answer?
Ju%ge& Yes ) am.
A( Okay. !hank you.
Ju%ge& You don"t have to +ive a num*er #ust was it in e2cess of the de*t?
A( ?o.
4( .hat year was that sir that you did this assessment?
A( ) have &erformed this s&ecific valuation many times *ut )"m referencin+ June of >11H with re+ard
to my res&onses *ecause you clarified earlier June of >11H in your 8uestion.
4( %id )? Okay.
A( .ell we"re talkin+ a*out as of the date of death( and ) #ust want to *e clear with res&ect to that.
4( So you did an assessment a*sent this case of ,r. Jackson"s assets? )s that what you"re tellin+ us?
A( Gnrelated to this matter yes.
4( So you were workin+ with someone unrelated to ,r. Jackson or related to ,r. Jackson?
Ju%ge& You may answer.
A( -oth.
4( .ho were you workin+ for?
A( <an you $$ )"m sorry to do this. <ould you &lease instruct me #ust so ) feel comforta*le revealin+ all
these confidences? )"m sorry. )t"s very si+nificant to me.

Ju%ge& Let"s +o to side*ar.
Ju%ge& .hat is his &ro*lem?
's( Str-*g& /e was retained *y Sony at times and *y the Estate of ,ichael Jackson to value the
Sony A!I <atalo+ for years. .e have not *een &rivy to any of the information with it we"ve not $$ it"s
all confidential. ) don"t know the value of the Sony A!I <atalo+. .e asked for it in discovery from the
Estate. !hey wouldn"t +ive it to us. Flaintiffs are the *eneficiaries. Fresuma*ly they know the value of
the catalo+. -ut we made it very clear in his de&osition that he couldn"t reveal that. )t"s confidential
information *ased on his en+a+ement with the Estate of ,ichael Jackson. .e look like we"re hidin+
somethin+. )f any*ody can +et to it it"s the Flaintiffs as the *eneficiaries of the Estate of ,ichael
Jackson. Bi+ht there he was askin+ the 8uestion a*out the value of the catalo+. !hat"s com&letely
confidential. )"ve never *een told it. -ased on what he #ust said ri+ht there it sounds like the value is
less than the de*t :11 million. ,r. Fanish was tryin+ to +et him to say that it was more. All of that he
was very uncomforta*le doin+ *ecause he"s never told me the value we"re not allowed to know. /is
client confidence is with the Estate of ,ichael Jackson.
'r( +)*ish& !hey hired him.
's( Str-*g& )t has nothin+ to do with his o&inion in this case.
'r( +)*ish& )t does have to do with his o&inion and he"s not tellin+ the truth and he"s withholdin+ $$
e2cuse me ,r. Futnam $$ he"s withholdin+ evidence. And you know once you *rin+ an e2&ert in there
is no work &roduct attorneyJclient on issues that they"re talkin+ a*out in the case. And he s&ecifically
went out of his way $$ and )"m +oin+ to +et into other areas $$ to dirty u& ,r. Jackson and to make him
look like he"s not +oin+ to make any money and went way out on a lim* on these o&inions. And this
+oes directly to the heart of what his o&inion was. And if they didn"t want him to +ive that o&inion they
shouldn"t have let him write it out in the de&osition and +ive that in his de&osition. )t"s ri+ht on the sheet
that he &rovided at the de&osition. ) shouldn"t *e restricted on my cross and they kee& +ettin+ u& and
ar+uin+ and tryin+ to disru&t my cross$e2amination. !hat"s not a&&ro&riate.
's( Ste..i*s& Just for the issue your honor the witness feels uncomforta*le *ecause to testify to this
he has to *reach a confidentiality a+reement.
'r( +)*ish& /e"s +ot a conflict that"s the &ro*lem and he shouldn"t have *een in it #ust like we"re
claimin+ on the conflict of ,urray and AEG
'r( +ut*),& <ould you &lease not interru&t her while she"s s&eakin+ &lease? .e &rovide you with
that courtesy.
'r( +)*ish& ?o you didn"t.
's( Ste..i*s& !he witness is *ein+ forced to disclose somethin+ in violation of confidentiality and
&otentially +iven what he"s said on the stand $$ ) don"t know this $$ in violation of someone else"s
attorneyJclient &rivile+e. So he asked that the court $$ ) don"t know what $$ ) don"t $$

'r( +)*ish& /e"s not an attorney. /ow could there *e an attorneyJclient &rivile+e with an e2&ert?
's( Str-*g& /e"s not an e2&ert for them.
'r( +)*ish& /e"s not a client of anyone and not an attorney.
'r( +ut*),& $$ Estate of ,ichael Jackson.
'r( +)*ish& Just *ecause you"re an e2&ert there is no attorneyJclient &rivile+e.
's( Ste..i*s& Let me finish your honor. ) don"t know why he *elieves there"s a &rivile+e. .e"ve never
8uestioned him on that o*viously *ecause it was not the *asis of his o&inions. /is o&inion was *ased
on the testimony a*out ,r. Jackson"s de*t and the amount that was testified a*out. ) don"t think it"s any
of the *ases of his o&inion. An e2&ert is only to *e crossed on the *ases for their o&inion. )n terms of $$
'r( +)*ish& -ut if he says there"s de*t ) think it"s fair +ame.
's( Str-*g& -ased on testimony in the case.
'r( +)*ish& /e knows differently. .hat they"re tryin+ to do here is $$
's( Str-*g& /e actually doesn"t know differently.
'r( +)*ish& $$ &ull a rouse here with this witness. !hey knew all alon+ that this was an issue. !hey
chose to &ut him forward as an e2&ert. )f he"s not +oin+ to answer all of these fully his testimony
should *e stricken *ecause they &ut him forward your honor they knew $$ they have another e2&ert
*ut they wanted to use this +uy. !hey chose to &ut the testimony on. !hey were aware of this alle+ed
conflict they knew all a*out it yet they chose to +o forward.
'r( +ut*),& .hat"s the rouse?
's( Ste..i*s& !here"s not a conflict.
'r( +)*ish& !he rouse is $$
Ju%ge& ) want to hear ,s. -ina.
's( Ste..i*s& ) think the witness is #ust askin+ for the court to order him to testify so that he doesn"t
lose his #o*.
Ju%ge& Bi+ht. )f there"s a court order to do it ) don"t see how he could *e held in *reach when there"s
an order that he res&ond.
's( Ste..i*s& ) think that"s all he was askin+ for ri+ht now. )f the court is inclined to order him to
res&ond ) do think it"s *eyond the sco&e. .e"ve made that o*#ection you"ve ruled on it. 'or his own
comfort ) would ask that you order him $$
Ju%ge& Okay.

's( Ste..i*s& ) think that was the issue that came u&.
'r( B-yle& Just for the record as far as )"m aware there was no su*&oena to the Estate no su*&oena to
Sony to find out the value of the A!I <atalo+.
's( Str-*g& ) have it actually at my desk. !here were s&ecific re8uests and the Estate e2&licitly
refused. .e asked for information a*out the assets of ,ichael Jackson from Flaintiffs as well( they did
not &roduce that information. .e met and conferred with the Estate s&ecifically on the value of the
Sony A!I <atalo+ at the time of death( a+ain the Estate refused to &rovide it. A+ain the Flaintiffs are
the *eneficiaries of the Estate. )f they could release it $$ ) ima+ine that they could +et access to it your
honor as *eneficiaries to the Estate( *ut it"s somethin+ we"ve never had access to and it sounds like the
value of it is less than the de*t.
'r( +)*ish& !hat"s not true and then we"re +oin+ to now show $$ +et the documents to show it"s not
's( Str-*g& .ell you have access to them as Flaintiffs and *eneficiaries of the Estate. ) antici&ate
you have a *etter chance of +ettin+ it.
'r( +)*ish& .e"re +oin+ to issue a su*&oena ri+ht now for ,r. -ri++s who did the valuations.
Ju%ge& )t seems like it would *e easier to +et it from the Estate.
'r( B-yle& You would think.
'r( +)*ish& You would think *ut it"s not *ecause they"ve *een fi+htin+ us on everythin+ in this case.
's( Ste..i*s& !here mi+ht *e notice re8uirements to the Estate or what have you.
's( Str-*g& All of this we made very clear at the de&osition. !his issue did come u& your honor and
he said $$ we made clear that we don"t have access to it it"s not the *asis of o&inion to the e2tent he"s
s&eakin+ to the de*t. ,r. Ackerman has made o&inions with res&ect to the de*t *ased on financial
accountin+ records and *ased on information &rovided *y the *usiness advisors( and that"s the e2tent of
the de*t. !hey asked some 8uestions s&ecifically ;%o you know the value of the Sony A!I <atalo+?;
.hich drew u& this issue. )f they didn"t ask it in that way your honor he could have referred to the
evidence in this case that indicates that ,ichael Jackson had de*t at the time of his death.
'r( +)*ish& -ut he didn"t do that.
'r( +ut*),& .e"re not allowed this information. )sn"t this a collateral source rule? .e are +oin+ to *e
a*le to *rin+ u& now ) ho&e $$
'r( +)*ish& ?o. /e kee&s *rin+in+ u& the collateral source which is the &assive income. /e"s *rou+ht
it u& three times in violation of motion in limine.
's( Str-*g& %urin+ life.
'r( +)*ish& %urin+ your $$ no no. .hen ) #ust asked him a 8uestion a*out future earnin+s he *rou+ht
it u& in violation of the motion in limine.

's( Ste..i*s& ?o. )t was a+ain durin+ his life you asked what he earned.
Ju%ge& ) think he was tryin+ to *e clear.
's( Ste..i*s& Your honor if you would #ust order him if that is your order or if he has a moment to
talk to $$
's( Str-*g& )"m sure he would &refer not to talk a*out this issue +iven that he"s not *een cleared *y his
'r( B-yle& You would think he would have *een cleared. )f he acce&ted this en+a+ement to testify in
the ,ichael Jackson wron+ful death matter the com&any clearly knows he"s worked on the Sony
A!I <atalo+ a&&arently for years and they cleared him to testify so ) don"t see what the &ro*lem is.
Ju%ge& .ell the one thin+ ) do think would not *e relevant is the amounts. /e can testify whether it"s
in e2cess or *elow we can kind of leave it there for now.
'r( +)*ish& .e"ll see.
Ju%ge& All ri+ht. Let"s +o out.
("he /-ll-0i*g r-cee%i*gs 0ere hel% i* -e* c-urt1 i* the rese*ce -/ the 2ur-rs$&
'r( +)*ish& )"ll withdraw it ask a different 8uestion.
4( ,r. -ri++s do you have a conflict of interest in this case?
A( ?o.
4( /ave you *een cleared *y your com&any to testify in this case?
A( A*solutely.
4( And you can testify a*out anythin+ that you"re asked in this case?
A( !o the e2tent you"re askin+ me for confidential information or information under &rivile+e ) would
*e reluctant to testify re+ardin+ that. )f you"re askin+ me re+ardin+ my o&inion of course )"m ha&&y to
answer 8uestions.
4( Sir you"re not an attorney are you?
A( )"m not an attorney.
4( And you don"t have an attorneyJclient relationshi& with anyone outside of this case do you?
A( ) $$ my firm has attorneyJclient relationshi&s with many other law firms in con#unction with many
other en+a+ements.

4( %id a law firm hire you in that en+a+ement?
A( .hich en+a+ement are you referencin+?
4( !he one that you"re havin+ &ro*lems discussin+.
A( )n $$ in one &articular case a law firm did hire us yes.
4( Okay. And when was that?
A( Fro*a*ly end of >11H early >11H.
4( So after ,r. Jackson died?
A( !hat"s correct.
4( )"m talkin+ a*out now *efore ,r. Jackson died did any law firm ever hire you on this issue?
A( )t"s &ossi*le. ) don"t recall.
4( You"re unaware of any law firm hirin+ you correct?
A( A+ain s&eakin+ to this issue ) am unaware of any other law firm.
4( Okay. /ow many times were you retained on this issue to do work &rior to >11H June?
A( )n re+ards to this one asset that we"re discussin+ #ust to *e clear?
4( Yes.
A( ,ay*e five or ten se&arate en+a+ements.
4( Okay. So $$ and was this when you were '!) or your other com&any?
A( !hat was at the salter +rou&.
4( So when you were there you would have work &a&ers for the work you did?
A( Everyone defines ;work &a&ers; differently( *ut we ke&t a work file yes.
4( So you have in writin+ the work that you did on the issue?
A( Yes.
4( And you &rovided o&inions to some*ody( is that ri+ht?
A( )n $$ in those en+a+ements yes we did &rovide o&inions to some third &arty.

4( And that"s five or ten times you"ve done that &rior to June of >11H?
A( !hat sounds ri+ht yes.
4( Okay. And you were the one doin+ the work( is that ri+ht?
A( !hat"s correct or overseein+ a team. -ut ) was intimately $$
4( .as it the same third &arty or different ones?
A( ) think different.
4( /ow many different third &arties?
A( )"m $$ )"ll answer your 8uestion( *ut ) think in one &articular case it was also &re ,ichael Jackson"s
death under attorneyJclient &rivile+e as well #ust to *e thorou+h. Fro*a*ly three or four different
4( So you"re not $$ you didn"t have any attorneyJclient relationshi& with anyone you weren"t a client
were you?
A( )n those &articular en+a+ements they were all confidentiality &rovisions. !here was not an attorney
involved e2ce&t *ut for &ossi*ly the one )"m thinkin+ of now.
4( )"m talkin+ a*out *efore the death.
A( Okay.
4( You didn"t have any attorneyJclient relationshi& with anyone did you?
A( )"m not a law firm. E2ce&t *ut for the one en+a+ement )"m now thinkin+ of there was not a law firm
on the other side.
4( All ri+ht. And these five se&arate clients you said that $$ that you worked for $$
A( ) think ) said five to ten se&arate en+a+ements and ) think ) said three or four se&arate reci&ients.
)"m a&&ro2imatin+. !his was years a+o hundreds of en+a+ements a+o.
4( .as one of them Sony?
A( Yes.
4( .as one of them 'ortress <a&ital?
A( )"m sorry. Let me +o *ack. !o *e clear Sony A!I the music &u*lishin+ or+ani@ation as o&&osed to
Sony cor&orate a&&reciatin+ there"s a difference. One of them involved 'ortress <a&ital. ) don"t recall
if 'ortress was a direct $$ a direct$claim client or received our work &roduct in con#unction with an

4( So other than 'ortress and Sony A!I anyone else?
A( ) recall a law firm and there may have *een other financial institutions that also re8uested our
4( Goldman Sachs?
A( )t"s &ossi*le.
4( )t"s more than &ossi*le they did didn"t they sir? Betained you to assess some work they were +oin+
to do with ,ichael Jackson?
A( )t"s &ossi*le. ) mean like ) said ) work on over 311 en+a+ements a year. )t"s hard to kee& every
third &arty strai+ht.
4( )"m only askin+ a*out this third &arty sir. Goldman Sachs. You do work for Goldman Sachs don"t
you sir?
A( )n +eneral sure.
4( Are they an entertainment com&any?
A( Entertainment? ?o. !hey are involved in entertainment assets.
4( And loanin+ money?
A( )nvestin+ loanin+.
4( )nvestin+. And Goldman Sachs hired you relatin+ to ,ichael Jackson didn"t they sir?
A( ) don"t recall that s&ecific en+a+ement. )t"s &ossi*le.
4( .ell you have records of all this ri+ht?
A( !here are records somewhere in re+ards to &revious en+a+ements sure.
4( All ri+ht. And you are familiar then with records and sales and royalties ri+ht sir?
A( As a +eneral conce&t sure.
4( .ell you told us you did an internshi& at a record com&any ri+ht?
A( Yes durin+ colle+e.
4( And how lon+ was that for?
A( ) +uess three months or so. )t was a lon+ time a+o.
4( And you never worked for a record com&any as a real em&loyee ri+ht?

A( <orrect.
4( You haven"t *een in an audit ri+ht?
A( )"ve never &erformed a record com&any audit no.
4( ?ow sir $$
Ju%ge& .e have $$ need to take a *reak.
'r( +)*ish& Oh sure. Sorry.
Ju%ge& <an we take #ust a ten minute *reak?
("he /-ll-0i*g r-cee%i*gs 0ere hel% i* -e* c-urt1 -utsi%e the rese*ce -/ the 2ur-rs$&
Ju%ge& !here was a note &rovided *y some*ody from the audience. ) &rovided it to *oth counsel.
,ake of it what you will.
'r( +)*ish& !hank you your honor.
'r( +ut*),& !hank you your honor.
("he /-ll-0i*g r-cee%i*gs 0ere hel% i* -e* c-urt1 i* the rese*ce -/ the 2ur-rs$&

'r( +)*ish& ,r. -ri++s *efore the *reak ) asked you a 8uestion a*out whether you were u& in the
fifth floor watchin+ the testimony.
4( %o you remem*er that 8uestion?
A( You asked me if ) attended the testimony of $$ or ) *elieve the $$ the trial testimony of ,r. Erk.
4( ) *elieve ) asked you of any testimony *ut )"m +oin+ to ask you ri+ht now sir. .ere you u& there
watchin+ testimony of any witness in this trial?
A( Yes ) did see the trial testimony of ,r. ,e+len at least &art of it while ) was waitin+ to come here(
and ) *elieve one of the doctors as well. ) can"t recall his name.
4( So how many days were you u& there?
A( ) think one or two &erha&s.
4( And who were you there with?

A( Sa*rina stron+ Ale2 %avis and ,r. -uckner.
4( !hree of the attorneys you"re workin+ with?
A( !hat"s correct yes.
4( ?ow sir *efore you +ot involved in this case you knew that you had done work relatin+ to
,ichael Jackson *efore ri+ht?
A( Yes.
4( And did you advise the lawyers of that when they were askin+ to retain you in this case?
A( Yes.
4( And did you advise the lawyers that you had a &otential conflict of interest?
A( .e discussed it yes.
4( Okay. .ell did you advise them? %id you say ;hey )"ve done this. ) may have a conflict of
A( )n effect yes.
4( And the lawyers told you that ;don"t worry a*out the conflict of interest;( is that ri+ht?
A( ) think the collective view was that my work done under &revious en+a+ements had nothin+ to do
with what ) was doin+ here.
4( So the lawyers told you it was okay as far as they were concerned there"s no conflict of interest
A( .ell they may have thou+ht that. .hat"s more im&ortant to me is what the +eneral counsel of '!)
<onsultin+ thinks and his view is there was no conflict here.
4( So they thou+ht that there"s no conflict( therefore you can come and work on this case and *ill E or
911111 ri+ht?
A( ) think the determination was there was no conflict. ) don"t think we had any idea at that time what
the *illin+s would *e.
4( -ut sir you had confidentiality a+reements si+ned in &lace with certain entities relatin+ to ,ichael
Jackson *efore you si+ned on to do this case didn"t you sir?
A( .e $$ we had an en+a+ement a+reement with a num*er of entities that had confidentiality

4( %id you show those to counsel to see if it was okay that you could *e a witness in this case?
A( ) don"t think so no.
4( %id you discuss that you had confidentiality a+reements with entities and relatin+ to ,ichael
Jackson *efore you si+ned an a+reement to *e an e2&ert in this case for the %efendant?
A( ) went a ste& further. ) told them ) was not sharin+ anythin+ in re+ards to those other matters.
4( %id you contact all of the &revious clients that you had confidentiality a+reements with and have
them si+n off for you to *e in this case?
A( !hose that were more current yes.
4( Okay. So who did you call and have them si+n off?
A( )"m +oin+ to start revealin+ some client confidential information here.
Ju%ge& ) think you"re #ust askin+ for the clients not $$ #ust the identity.
4( .ho did you call and have them si+n in writin+ that they"re waivin+ any &otential conflict of
interest for you to testify in this case?
A( ) don"t *elieve we have anythin+ si+ned in writin+.
4( Okay. .ell who did you call and tell them that you were +oin+ to *e in this case and you wanted to
make sure it was okay with these &eo&le that You had confidentiality a+reements with?
A( ,y recollection is the most si+nificant call was with the attorneys for the Estate of ,ichael
4( And who did you s&eak to?
A( ) don"t recall. ) don"t recall if it was me or my &artner.
4( So you don"t recall if you called someone and asked for a waiver of a confidentiality a+reement?
A( ) recall there was a call that took &lace. As ) &reviously testified )"m involved in over 311 matters a
year all the s&ecifics and lo+istics are hard to kee& track.
4( Sir you were retained in this case in march( is that ri+ht?
A( 'e*ruary A.
4( 'e*ruary A si2 months a+o ri+ht?
A( !hat"s correct.
4( And did you call someone from the Estate sir?

A( ) don"t recall if it was me or my &artner.
4( So as far as you you don"t recall any conversations with anyone $$ is that ri+ht? $$ re+ardin+ this
A( .ell at or durin+ the time of en+a+ement ) don"t recall whether it was me or my &artner.
Su*se8uent to the time of en+a+ement )"ve had conversations.
4( .ho did you talk to?
A( ,s. Gerald <ohen.
4( .ho is that?
A( Gerald <ohen is a ta2 attorney for the Estate of ,ichael Jackson.
4( And what firm is she in?
A( !he /offman firm in Los An+eles.
4( /offman or /awkman?
A( /awkman is in %.<. /offman is in west L.A. .
4( Okay. So you s&oke to Gerald <ohen and she told you it"s okay for you to testify in this case?
A( You"re summari@in+ the conversation( *ut in effect that was $$ that was the s&irit of the
4( ) want to know s&ecifically did you ask Gerald <ohen if you could testify as a witness in this case?
A( !he conversation ) recall was she was sharin+ she was well aware of everythin+ that was +oin+ on
and &erfectly in a&&roval with it. And ) e2&ressed to her durin+ that conversation ) very much res&ected
the client confidence here ) was very sensitive a*out everythin+ that was *ein+ done. ) told her that )
had no interest in sharin+ information in re+ards to the en+a+ement ) had done on *ehalf of the Estate
and everythin+ would *e done com&letely se&arate.
4( %o you know if she"s an attorney for the Estate sir one of the $$ did you s&eak to the e2ecutors of
the Estate?
A( ) did not no.
4( %id anyone from your firm to +et &ermission for you to come and testify in this case?
A( ) don"t know.
4( ?ot to your knowled+e ri+ht?

A( ) don"t know.
4( .ell you don"t know if anyone talked to anyone that"s a trustee or e2ecutor of the Estate to +et
&ermission for you to testify ri+ht?
A( ) don"t know s&ecifically.
4( Okay. And when did you s&eak to this ,s. <ohen and +et her &ermission?
A( .ell initial &ermission would have *een o*tained at or around the time of the en+a+ement( and
su*se8uent to that ) think ) s&oke with her a month or two a+o. ) can"t recall s&ecifically.
4( So you +ot &ermission a month or two a+o from her?
A( ?o that"s not what ) said.
4( Okay. .ell when $$ you +ot &ermission *efore 'e*ruary Ath when you were retained? )s that what
your testimony is?
A( ) understand that"s the case yes.
4( Okay. %id you call her and ask for &ermission?
A( ) already told you ) $$ ) can"t recall whether it was me or one of my &artners.
4( Okay. So let me #ust see if ) understand. ?ow in 'e*ruary $$ you si+ned a written contract with this
law firm here to work on this case ri+ht?
A( An en+a+ement a+reement yes.
4( And *efore you si+ned that sir you or someone that you don"t know of called ,s. <ohen and +ot
her authori@ation to testify in this case correct?
A( !hat"s my understandin+.
4( .ell did it ha&&en or not?
A( ) told you that"s my understandin+.
4( -ased on what?
A( -ased on my knowled+e of how the conflict check &rocess works at '!) <onsultin+.
4( Okay. So you don"t +et written conflict waivers?
A( %e&ends on the situation and circumstances.
4( Okay. And then two months a+o you s&oke to ,s. <ohen yourself ri+ht?

A( A&&ro2imately yes.
4( And she then a+ain +ave you &ermission to testify( is that ri+ht?
A( ) wouldn"t descri*e it as +ivin+ &ermission. )t was more #ust an acknowled+ment.
4( .ell you"d already done all your work *y then two months a+o hadn"t you sir?
A( ) consider *ein+ here work so no.
4( .ell you"d already *illed over 411111 *y that time?
A( ) don"t know.
4( So what )"m tryin+ to understand is who is the &erson from your com&any that called ,s. <ohen
and +ot &ermission for you to work on this case?
A( ) can"t tell you s&ecifically.
4( .ould you e2&ect your com&any to have records of that?
A( ) don"t know.
4( .ell you descri*ed you"re familiar with how the conflict &rocess works. )sn"t there a written$out
&rocedure at your com&any '!) with :111 em&loyees that you"re su&&osed to follow when a conflict
arises &otentially?
A( )"m sorry. ) miss&oke earlier. !here is a written record of a conflict check that was &assed yes.
4( Okay. And who si+ned it?
A( .ell it"s authori@ed *y the +eneral counsel of the firm ) understand.
4( And who s&oke to ,s. <ohen?
A( ) told you ) can"t recall.
4( And what"s the +eneral counsel"s name?
A( Eric miller.
4( Eric miller. )s he in Los An+eles?
A( ?o.
4( .here is he?
A( ) *elieve -altimore.

4( %id you s&eak to ,r. ,iller a*out this?
A( ) may have.
4( You may have. So you don"t know whether you ever s&oke to ,r. ,iller? )s that a fair statement?
A( .ell )"ve s&oken with him many times. Like ) said )"m involved in so many matters it"s hard for me
to kee& track of whether ) s&oke to him on this &articular matter.
4( ) don"t want to know a*out any of your other matters. You don"t have to tell me a*out the other
matters you"re in.
A( All of these 8uestions relate to unrelated matters.
4( )"m only talkin+ a*out this matter sir. %id you s&eak to ,r. ,iller a*out a conflict check in this
A( ) don"t recall.
4( ?ow sir you were tellin+ us a*out all your en+a+ements. And you do fairness o&inions( is that
A( !hat"s correct.
4( .hat"s a fairness o&inion?
A( A fairness o&inion is on *ehalf of one &arty in a transaction where*y a financial advisor comes in
and effectively states from the &ers&ective of that &arty they"re +ettin+ a fair deal. !his is often done in
com&le2 transactions where a *oard of directors is seekin+ a third &arty"s &ers&ective that they"re doin+
somethin+ that at least financially makes sense and we do a fair *it of that work.
4( /ow many of those have you done yourself in 34 years?
A( ,ay*e 34 or >1.
4( !hat"s $$ that"s the first thin+ you list on your we*site under your 8ualifications isn"t it?
A( 'airness o&inions is a sin+le *ullet? ) don"t know. )t"s &ossi*le.
4( Okay. You also do strate+ic &lannin+( is that ri+ht?
A( !hat"s correct.
4( Liti+ation su&&ort. .hat is liti+ation su&&ort?
A( Assistin+ clients and &re&arin+ for liti+ation matters or a&&earin+ at trial or a&&earin+ at de&osition.
4( )s this liti+ation su&&ort what you"re doin+ here today?

A( ) consider it.
4( Okay. Your firm also has #ury consultants ri+ht?
A( ) don"t know. )t"s &ossi*le.
4( /ave you ever looked at your we*site sir?
A( Sure. ,y com&any has :111 &eo&le doin+ all sorts of different thin+s.
4( .ell isn"t it listed on your we*site how you have #ury consultants witness &re&aration &eo&le
e2&ert witnesses? All of those services are one of the *i+ services &rovided *y your com&any?
A( ) think my com&any"s we*site &ro*a*ly lists 41 different services( and the ones that are really
s&ecific to liti+ation ) don"t have dee& knowled+e of *ecause liti+ation has really never *een the focus
of my work.
4( <ould you try to answer my 8uestion &lease sir?
A( Sure.
4( %oes your com&any $$ so you"ve never looked at your com&any"s we*site to see what services you
advertise that you &rovide( is that a fair statement?
A( ) have looked at my com&any"s we*site to see what $$ what services my com&any advertises it
4( And do you +et &aid a salary?
A( ) do.
4( And do you +et a *onus?
A( ) ho&e ) do.
4( .hat is your salary?
's( Str-*g& O*#ection your honor( 04> irrelevant.
Ju%ge& Sustained.
'r( +)*ish& .ell is your *onus *ased on how much you *ill?
's( Str-*g& O*#ection your honor. Same o*#ections.
Ju%ge& Overruled.
A( ,y *onus is *ased on the &erformance of a division not my s&ecific efforts.

4( .ell &erformance is assessed *y money *rou+ht into the com&any isn"t it sir?
A( .ell loosely yes.
4( .ell
you"re in a money$makin+ *usiness aren"t you sir?
A( )f *y ;money$makin+; you mean ;&rofita*le; yes '!) <onsultin+ +enerates &rofits.
4( And how much did you +enerate last year sir your firm?
A( .e were *rou+ht into '!) in January( so s&eakin+ to the time *efore that that was at the salter
+rou&. !hat was a different time.
4( )"m talkin+ a*out '!) sir. -efore you #oined the com&any you reviewed the financial situation
didn"t you?
A( Sure ) did yes.
4( And your firm advertises on its we*site how much they *rin+ in and market and $$ in revenue a
year don"t they sir?
A( .ell '!) is a &u*licly traded com&any( they have &u*licly filed financial statements.
4( /ow much was it last year sir?
A( ) think it was a&&roachin+ C> million a&&ro2imately.
4( ?ow $$
A( )n revenues. E2cuse me. Just to *e clear.
4( Bi+ht. ?ow sir you told us that your $$ your $$ one of your #o*s is to assess risk ri+ht?
A( !hat"s correct.
4( And that"s what you do when you forecast you assess risks ri+ht?
A( ) view them as +oin+ hand in hand.
4( And when you assess risk you"ve +ot to determine what the risk is and whether or not it can *e
miti+ated correct?
A( ) a+ree.
4( And when you assess risk you look at what could *e a &ro*lem and how can that
Fro*lem *e miti+ated ri+ht?

A( !o the e2tent it can *e within reason yes.
4( Okay. And on that e2hi*it $$ can we &ut that u& e2hi*it $$ his o&inions? ) for+ot the num*er here.
Just a sec. 3>H9H. Let"s look at the first &art ri+ht here. /ere sir you said in your o&inion there"s no
way to a reasona*le de+ree of certainty that the 41 shows would ever occur ri+ht?
A( !hat"s what the document reads.
4( .ell that"s what you testified to yesterday and today ri+ht?
A( !hat"s correct.
4( And you &ut the risks of why the &ro#ect wouldn"t +o forward ri+ht?
A( !hese *ullet &oints are summaries of the risks ) identified in re+ards to whether one could *e
reasona*ly certain these 41 shows would occur.
4( So is that a yes?
A( Yes.
4( Okay. And sir your definition of ;reasona*ly certain; is more &ro*a*le than not isn"t it sir?
A( ,ore likely than not yes.
4( %o you remem*er testifyin+ in your de&osition ;more &ro*a*le than not;?
A( ) may have said ;more likely than not; or ;more &ro*a*le than not.;
4( Or ;more likely true than not true;?
A( ) *elieve ) said ;more likely than not; or ;more &ro*a*le than not.;
4( And you +ave an o&inion in your de&osition that ,ichael Jackson would die in one week ri+ht?
A( ) did not offer that o&inion. Flaintiffs" e2&ert %r. Shimelman stated very clearly that ,ichael
Jackson"s life e2&ectancy was one week as of his date of death.
4( .ith %r. ,urray treatin+ him ri+ht?
A( Given all facts and circumstances that were availa*le to %r. Shimelman to review.
4( %r. Shimelman testified sir isn"t it true that with %r. ,urray takin+ care of ,ichael Jackson he"d
*e sur&rised if he lasted another week? )sn"t that true?
A( ) *elieve his statement was his life e2&ectancy was one week.
4( .ith %r. ,urray treatin+ him?

A( ) *elieve he was takin+ into consideration many factors includin+ %r. ,urray includin+ the
decades of dru+ a*use includin+ the lastin+ im&act of the use of dru+s the method in which he was
takin+ dru+s and the si+nificant likelihood of rela&se.
4( .ell let"s look at what he said sir. 'irst of all you"re not a medical doctor are you sir?
A( )"m not a medical doctor.
4( <an you tell us sir how many or+ans there are in the *ody?
's( Str-*g& O*#ection your honor( outside the sco&e 04>.
Ju%ge& Sustained.
4( .ell sir you reviewed %r. Shimelman"s testimony at &a+e 94 didn"t you sir?
A( .ell my sheet here references &a+e 94 so &resuma*ly &a+e 94 had one of the key statements that
were relevant in formin+ my o&inion. Fresuma*ly it was the statement a*out $$
4( And when he was asked ;so ) would ask in your o&inion how lon+ do you think that ,ichael
Jackson"s life e2&ectancy was?; did he answer ;if <onrad ,urray continues with him?; did he answer
that sir?
's( Str-*g& O*#ection to the e2tent $$ if he"s readin+ somethin+ from the document it mi+ht *e
a&&ro&riate to allow the witness to review it as o&&osed to doin+ a memory test.
Ju%ge& .ell first $$ no. )f he has a failure of memory then we can +o there. Overruled.
A( ) don"t recall that s&ecific wordin+. )"m ha&&y to look at the &a+e with you.
'r( +)*ish& Are you aware the internal revenue service is investi+atin+ whether or not the &eo&le that
hired you re+ardin+ the A!I <atalo+ undervalued it?
's( Str-*g& O*#ection your honor( outside the sco&e irrelevant 04>.
Ju%ge& Sustained.
'r( +)*ish& Okay. .ell let"s take a look at %r. Shimelman"s testimony sir that you were #ust referrin+
Ju%ge& .here did that come from?
's( Str-*g& Good 8uestion.
'r( +)*ish& .ell do you want me to answer that? )"m ha&&y to tell you where it came from.
Ju%ge& ?o. Let"s #ust move on.
'r( +)*ish& Okay. -ut you asked me.

Ju%ge& ) know ) did. -ut move on.
'r( +)*ish& ) was askin+ $$ he knows a*out it. ?ow let"s +o to %r. Shimelman. And let"s take a look $$
do you have that transcri&t? Let"s see $$
4( Sir you"re relyin+ on %r. Shimelman as &art of your o&inion aren"t you sir?
A( !he four medical e2&erts ) reviewed the testimony of all four. )"m relyin+ on the testimony of all
4( Are you relyin+ on %r. Shimelman as &art of the *ases for your o&inion yes or no?
A( Yes as &art.
4( -ecause %r. Earley he wasn"t a*le to +ive a life e2&ectancy of ,r. Jackson was he sir?
A( )"m not sure ) a+ree with that statement.
4( Okay. So you say $$ it"s your testimony that %r. Earley +ave an o&inion a*out ,ichael Jackson"s life
e2&ectancy( is that true?
A( %r. Earley said he was effectively &layin+ russian roulette in the manner in which he was takin+
dru+s. !hat to me s&eaks as a lay&erson to the su*#ect of life e2&ectancy.
'r( +)*ish& <ould he answer the 8uestion?
Ju%ge& /e answered it.
'r( +)*ish& !hat"s not $$ all ri+ht. .ell we"re +oin+ to +et to all of that sir. Let"s start with
Shimelman. <an we &ut that $$
Ju%ge& .ait a minute. Shimelman? /e said he didn"t recall the testimony of Shimelman( so *efore we
do any &layin+ of the de&osition you need to show him first. Show him. /e did say he didn"t recall it.
'r( +)*ish& Let"s &ut it u& for you on the screen sir. Let"s start at &a+e 94 line A to >:.
4( !hat"s what you relied on isn"t it sir?
A( )n &art yes.
4( Okay. .ell what &a+e $$ let"s &ut u& this e2hi*it and let"s see what &a+e you wrote on your e2hi*it
that you"re relyin+ on sir. .hat did you write on your e2hi*it?
A( ) wrote &a+e 94 referencin+ ) was relyin+ on that in &art.
4( So did you write any other &a+es than 94 on your e2hi*it sir?
A( ?ot s&ecific to %r. Shimelman.

4( So is that a yes or a no?
A( ) said yes in &art.
'r( +)*ish& All ri+ht. .ell let"s +o now to %r. Shimelman"s testimony.
Ju%ge& !his is the &art you"re #ust +oin+ to show the witness.
'r( +)*ish& Bi+ht. So let"s show him $$ ) have the transcri&t. .hat did ) do with it? Okay. Kee& +oin+.
4( %id you read that sir?
A( !hat"s correct. ) can"t state whether this is &a+e 94 ) can only see a few lines here( *ut ) recall this
testimony yes.
4( All ri+ht. Let"s +o now to the ne2t &a+e. Let"s +o to 99 line 39. Actually it +oes all the way to 9A$4.
You mi+ht as well &ut it all u& with the o*#ections. Okay. .hy don"t you read that.
A( )"ve reviewed this.
4( %oes that refresh your recollection that %r. Shimelman testified if %r. <onrad ,urray continues to
treat him $$
A( .ell he states you can"t look at that num*er referencin+ one week without includin+ <onrad
4( %oes that refresh your recollection is the 8uestion.
A( Yes.
4( Okay. And sir %r. ,urray that was a *i+ risk to ,ichael Jackson wasn"t it sir?
A( )"m not sure ) understand the 8uestion.
4( .ell you were assessin+ risks and his health( and %r. ,urray was a *i+ risk to his health wasn"t
he sir?
A( ) wasn"t focused on an individual *ein+ a risk ) was focused on a medical e2&ert who is lookin+ at
the record after the fact $$
4( Sir $$
A( $$ and identifyin+ a week life e2&ectancy.
4( Sir %r. Shimelman said $$ you told us you assess risks every day that"s what you do ri+ht?
A( !hat"s correct.

4( And %r. Shimelman said %r. ,urray was treatin+ him may*e a week left ri+ht?
A( /e connected %r. ,urray to that one week.
4( Bi+ht. So that"s a risk to his health isn"t it sir %r. ,urray?
A( !he document says what it says. ) mean it a&&ears *ased on what $$ could they &ut it *ack u&
's( Str-*g& <an we #ust +ive him a co&y? /e was shown e2cer&ts. %o you have a co&y to show the
'r( +)*ish& )"m ha&&y to &lay it so we all see it.
Ju%ge& ?o no.
'r( +)*ish& !he answer is not in the transcri&t. Okay. So let me $$ your honor )"m tryin+ to ask $$ is
this coachin+ the witness?
Ju%ge& ?o.
's( Str-*g& )"m showin+ the &ortion of the transcri&t that you"re referrin+ to.
'r( +)*ish& .ell she #ust told him somethin+.
A( She #ust directed me to $$
'r( +)*ish& )"m not askin+ you a*out that now.
A( Okay.
'r( +)*ish& /ello? ,y 8uestion a+ain %r. ,urray was a risk to ,r. Jackson"s health wasn"t he sir?
's( Str-*g& A+ain o*#ection your honor to the e2tent that this is somethin+ that was assessed *y
medical doctors and he"s indicated he"s reviewed the medical testimony.
Ju%ge& Overruled.
A( !he risk that ) viewed here was his life e2&ectancy. )t a&&ears $$ it a&&ears that in determinin+ that
life e2&ectancy %r. Shimelman took into consideration <onrad ,urray.
4( And to miti+ate that risk you could remove %r. ,urray and have a fit and com&etent doctor to
remove that risk assessment couldn"t you sir?
A( ) think you"re askin+ me for a medical o&inion that )"m not &re&ared to +ive.
4( You assess risks. )f %r. ,urray is not in that e8uation the risk isn"t there is it sir?

A( .ell there are many other medical risks that are identified( risk of rela&se risk of the method in
which he"s takin+ dru+s and so forth.
4( <ould you answer the 8uestion sir?
Ju%ge& Answer the 8uestion that"s asked.
A( <an you restate the 8uestion &lease?
4( ,ay*e you should &ut that down *ecause )"m not askin+ you a*out that ri+ht now.
A( )"m tryin+ to +ive you the *est answers &ossi*le and they relate to medical testimony and ) don"t
want to offer it.
4( You assessed risks *ased on medical testimony in this case didn"t you sir?
A( !hat"s correct yes. ) didn"t assess medical risks thou+h.
4( You assessed risks *ased on medical evidence didn"t you sir?
A( ) a+ree.
4( Okay. And you know how to miti+ate risk( and if the risk is the doctor and you take the doctor out
the risk isn"t there is it sir?
A( ) +uess the $$ it would seem that one risk would *e removed. )t"s hard to say how many other risks

4( .ell we"re +ettin+ to that sir. )"m talkin+ a*out this risk the first one on your chart. Let"s &ut that
u&. )"m talkin+ a*out the first one you &ut down. Your o&inion that ,r. Jackson is +oin+ to die in a
week is *ecause of %r. ,urray treatin+ him accordin+ to %r. Shimelman isn"t it sir?
's( Str-*g& O*#ection( misstates the testimony.
Ju%ge& Overruled.
A( ) don"t a+ree with that.
'r( +)*ish& .ell let"s &ut the testimony u& then &a+e 99 since you don"t a+ree with it and let"s look
at it.
Ju%ge& .hose testimony? You"re &uttin+ u& Shimelman?
's( Str-*g& !he relevant testimony *e+ins at &a+e 94 as ,r. -ri++s identified on his sheet.
'r( +)*ish& <ould ) ask counsel not to $$ to make le+al o*#ections *ecause there"s $$
Ju%ge& Are you &uttin+ u& the testimony that you showed him on the $$

'r( +)*ish& ) was +onna *ut he already admitted to it.
Ju%ge& Overruled. Fut it u&.
4( You"ve already admitted that %r. ,urray was a risk ri+ht sir?
A( A+ain you"re askin+ me a*out a medical risk that ) can"t s&eak to. )"m not a doctor. )"ve *een very
clear a*out that.
4( You relied on %r. Shimelman"s testimony that ,r. Jackson was +oin+ to die in a week if %r. ,urray
was treatin+ him didn"t you sir?
A( ) a+ree with that summary.
4( Okay. So that means that %r. ,urray under that scenario is a risk to ,r. Jackson"s health correct?
A( ) mean the document says what it says. /e states he cannot $$ he cannot assess life e2&ectancy
without <onrad ,urray in the &icture effectively. /e doesn"t really offer a s&ecific o&inion as to the
im&act of <onrad ,urray s&ecifically so ) can"t +ive you an answer.
4( Sir you"re the risk e2&ert aren"t you?
A( .ith res&ect to financial and &ro#ection analyses yes a*solutely.
4( And you consider medical testimony in assessin+ those risks don"t you sir?
A( Yes.
4( And your first $$ one of your reasons here is %r. Shimelman"s testimony that ,ichael Jackson is
+oin+ to die in a week you say any ni+ht ri+ht?
A( !hat"s correct.
4( And that was *ecause of the treatment that %r. ,urray was &rovidin+ correct?
A( ,y understandin+ is it was a result of many factors which the medical e2&erts have offered their
views on not one s&ecific factor.
4( So tell us all the factors that you"re aware of of why ,ichael Jackson died sir.
A( ) can only s&eak to them from my memory *ased on readin+ these( and of course )"m s&eakin+ to
them not as a medical doctor.
4( Sir did %r. Shimelman determine what killed ,r. Jackson?
A( Killed him? ) don"t recall that s&ecific testimony.
4( So let"s +et to that. .hat is your understandin+ of why ,ichael Jackson died sir?

's( Str-*g& O*#ection your honor( outside the sco&e 04>. Goin+ way out of *ounds your honor.
Ju%ge& .hy don"t you #ust show the Shimelman de&o.
4( Sir your o&inion is that he would die any ni+ht ri+ht?
A( ) want to *e very clear. !his is not my o&inion. ) am not a doctor. !here is a doctor that has testified
on the record that"s Flaintiffs" e2&ert that his life e2&ectancy was one week. ) can"t offer a medical
o&inion )"m not a doctor.
4( Okay. %id he die under the care of %r. ,urray?
A( ) $$ ) understand that to *e the case.
4( And you relied on %r. Shimelman $$ ri+ht? $$ as one of your *ases?
A( Yes in &art.
4( Okay. And in &art *ecause he said he could die any time *ecause %r. ,urray was treatin+ him
A( /e said his evaluation of the circumstances included %r. ,urray yes. ) don"t $$ ) really didn"t see it
linked to %r. ,urray"s treatment s&ecifically #ust that %r. ,urray was &art of his assessment.
4( Okay. Let me +o now to %r. Earley. Okay? And you said %r. Earley +ave an o&inion a*out life
e2&ectancy( is that ri+ht sir?
A( .ell from a lay&erson"s &ers&ective he stated that the way ,ichael Jackson was takin+ dru+s was
the e8uivalent of Bussian roulette.
'r( +)*ish& Your honor could ) ask him to &lease answer the 8uestion?
Ju%ge& ) think he"s answerin+ the 8uestion.
4( %id %r. Earley +ive an o&inion yes or no a*out ,ichael Jackson"s life e2&ectancy sir?
A( As a lay&erson his comment yes.
4( Okay. .ell let"s see what he testified to. Let"s first +o sir $$ is it true that %r. Earley said when
asked a*out the life e2&ectancy that he wasn"t asked to o&ine on that matter in this case?
A( ) don"t recall.
4( )s it true that %r. Earley said ;) don"t have any &articular num*er that ) can +ive you in this case;?
A( ) don"t recall that s&ecific testimony.
4( )s it true that %r. Earley testified that he doesn"t *lame ,ichael Jackson at all for the use of any &ain

A( ) *elieve ) recall that testimony.
4( And then he said that if anyone were to *lame ,ichael Jackson he would *e a+ainst that didn"t he
A( ) think ) recall that testimony.
4( .ell didn"t he say sir that anyone who"s tryin+ to &ut the *lame on ,r. Jackson would *e doin+
somethin+ wron+?
's( Str-*g& O*#ection your honor( outside the sco&e. !his is not relevant to this witness"s $$
'r( +)*ish& Your honor he reviewed all of these transcri&ts.
Ju%ge& Overruled. /e"s talkin+ a*out earley and life e2&ectancy. Overruled.
's( Str-*g& ?ot in terms of *lame. -ut understood your honor.
Ju%ge& Overruled.
A( ) don"t recall that s&ecific testimony.
'r( +)*ish& Okay. .ell let"s see if we can refresh your recollection sir.
4( !hat"s *ecause you didn"t take any notes of this other than these little sentence $$ little three words
you wrote a*out %r. Earley ri+ht?
A( ?o that"s not correct.
4( Okay. .here"s your other notes?
A( You asked me the reason ) didn"t recall that is *ecause ) didn"t take notes. !he reason ) didn"t recall
that is you"re askin+ me 8uestions a*out *lame and ) was $$ and ) was asked here to talk a*out
forecastin+ income and assessin+ risk not *lame. ) can"t s&eak to *lame.
4( )"m askin+ you what %r. Earley testified. You reviewed his entire transcri&t didn"t you sir?
A( !hat"s correct.
4( And you know $$
A( 'rom de&osition. /e hasn"t a&&eared in trial.
4( /e actually has sir. -ut you understand as an e2&ert witness when you review somethin+ you can
*e cross$e2amined on the document don"t you sir?
A( ) understand that.

4( And you reviewed his entire testimony didn"t you sir?
A( !hat"s correct.
4( And he didn"t *elieve that ,ichael Jackson"s $$ any addiction or de&endency was ,ichael Jackson"s
fault did he sir?
A( ) *elieve ) stated ) recalled testimony to that effect a+ain a&&reciatin+ it was outside the sco&e of
my focus.
4( )s that a yes sir?
A( Yes.
4( %id he +ive an o&inion %r. Earley a*out how lon+ ,ichael Jackson was +oin+ to live sir?
A( .ell a+ain to a lay&erson his statement a*out &layin+ Bussian roulette seemed to indicate life
e2&ectancy to me.
4( %id he +ive a $$
Ju%ge& !he answer is stricken. Just focus on the 8uestion.
'r( +)*ish& Answer the 8uestion &lease.
A( ) don"t recall him statin+ a s&ecific num*er if that"s what you"re askin+.
4( %id anyone that you $$ *y the way you reviewed Kenny Orte+a"s testimony too didn"t you sir?
You for+ot that?
A( !hat"s correct ) did review Kenny Orte+a"s testimony. !hank you.
4( %id any doctor in this case +ive an o&inion as to the a+e at which ,ichael Jackson would live to?
A( .e #ust reviewed the testimony of %r. Shimelman who stated one week. So yes he did.
4( All ri+ht. Let"s eliminate %r. ,urray. Anyone without referrin+ to %r. ,urray +ive an a+e that ,r.
Jackson would live to?
A( You mean without referrin+ to %r. Shimelman or %r. ,urray?
4( .ithout Shimelman.
A( Sorry. ) #ust want to *e clear.
4( Any doctor.
A( ) don"t recall a s&ecific num*er other than %r. Shimelman Flaintiffs" e2&ert.

4( %id anyone say he would only live three weeks other than Shimelman?
A( ) don"t recall that s&ecific testimony.
4( Okay. ?ow let"s talk a*out %r. Earley. %id %r. Earley say he"s not in the *usiness of +ivin+ &eo&le
estimates of how lon+ they"re +oin+ to live *ecause he"s never dia+nosed ,r. Jackson and never took a
look at him?
A( ) don"t recall that s&ecific testimony.
'r( +)*ish& Okay. Let"s look at &a+e 3>E lines 31 to >0 see if this refreshes your recollection
without &uttin+ it u& on the screen. Just &ut it u& for the witness.
's( Str-*g& )t"s 30E?
'r( +)*ish& 3>E lines 31 to >0.
's( Str-*g& %o you have a co&y of this for the witness?
'r( +)*ish& ) can read it to him. %o you want me to +ive it to him?
4( .hile they"re doin+ that sir were you &rovided the coroner"s testimony *y counsel $$ strike that.
You have the testimony.
A( Okay.
4( %oes that refresh your recollection?
A( ) recall this testimony.
4( And was $$ did %r. Earley testify that he wasn"t asked to o&ine in this matter to a reasona*le de+ree
of medical certainty a*out ,ichael Jackson"s s&ecific life e2&ectancy?
A( !his is what $$ ) mean the testimony s&eaks for itself.
's( Str-*g& Your honor can ) a&&roach and +ive him the full testimony? )t"s #ust showin+ e2cer&ts.
'r( +)*ish& )"m #ust tryin+ to $$
Ju%ge& ?o. ) think $$
4( Sir does he say he wasn"t asked to o&ine on his medical life e2&ectancy yes or no?
A( /e states he was not asked to o&ine in that manner.
4( %oes that refresh your recollection?
A( )t refreshes my recollection that he stated he was not asked to o&ine in that manner.

4( Okay. %id counsel $$ did you rely on the lawyers to show you all the relevant information?
A( ) relied on the attorneys to &rovide me the information.
4( Bi+ht. And when you"re assessin+ risk would $$ would all of the relevant information *e im&ortant?
A( )t"s a +eneral statement sure.
4( And when you"re assessin+ someone"s life e2&ectancy or whether they were +oin+ to
%ie in a week or a month would havin+ all the information of &eo&le that e2amined the &atient *e
A( .ell #ust to *e clear ) can"t assess anyone"s life e2&ectancy. )t"s what you asked me sir.
4( )n makin+ an assessment as to whether a &ro#ect will +o forward like 41 shows at the 1> arena
when you make a statement that ,r. Jackson"s health would have &revented that would it *e im&ortant
to have all the relevant information?
A( Sure.
4( And do you rely on the attorneys to +ive it to you?
A( ) relied on the attorneys to +ive me the information in this case yes.
4( And were you aware of the coroner"s testimony re+ardin+ ,ichael Jackson"s &hysical condition?
A( Yes.
4( Okay. !hat"s somethin+ else you reviewed you for+ot to tell me a*out?
A( You asked me if ) was aware of the testimony. ) was aware of the testimony *ut ) focused on the
testimony of the four medical e2&erts )"ve already identified that had that testimony availa*le to them
or the coroner"s re&ort.
4( Sir the coroner didn"t +ive a de&osition did he?
A( ) don"t *elieve so.
4( !hose witnesses didn"t have the coroner"s testimony availa*le to them did they?
A( ) said ;or coroner"s re&ort; and ) understand they had the re&ort availa*le to them.
4( %id you review the coroner"s testimony? %id counsel &rovide that to you?
A( !hey may have. ) don"t recall.
4( .ell ) asked you what you reviewed earlier. You didn"t mention that.

A( Like ) said ) don"t recall. ) don"t recall reviewin+ $$
4( %o you remem*er readin+ that the coroner felt that ,ichael Jackson had no &resence of
A( ) really didn"t focus on the coroner"s testimony and re&ort as ) understand it was made availa*le to
the four medical e2&erts who are e2&erts at reviewin+ this ty&e of thin+.
4( Sir )"m talkin+ a*out the coroner"s testimony under oath in this trial. !he auto&sy re&ort have you
reviewed that?
A( ?o. ) have no a*ility to review an auto&sy re&ort.
4( You know Arnold %ickie don"t you sir?
A( ) know of him.
4( %oesn"t he work for your com&any?
A( ) *elieve he is a consultant to '!).
4( .ell your com&any *ills for his services in this case don"t you sir?
A( ) really don"t know what they *ill for related to him.
4( .ell let"s take a look at the *ills. You didn"t look at the *ills that your com&any sent from Arnold
%ickie in this case sir?
A( ?o. .hy would ) do that?
4( .ere you served with a su*&oena to &roduce the *ills yourself &ersonally?
A( Yes( and ) handed it over to my assistant and the +eneral counsel of the firm.
4( And you didn"t look at what you &roduced in res&onse to the su*&oena to you?
A( ) handed it over to the +eneral counsel and trusted in his a*ilities to *e res&onsi*le.
4( %id you *rin+ the documents and +ive them to the lawyers?
A( ) did not.
4( .ho did?
A( ) $$ ) don"t know. ) assume the +eneral counsel.
4( !he one in -altimore?

A( ) assume so yes.
4( %id he come out here and &rovide the documents the +uy from -altimore?
A( ) assume he &rovided them electronically.
4( And did you read ,r. %ickie"s testimony in this case sir?
A( ) reviewed his de&o transcri&t.
4( So that"s another one that you for+ot to tell me a*out?
A( !hat"s correct.
4( And he couldn"t &ut a s&ecific life e2&ectancy on ,r. Jackson either could he?
's( Str-*g& O*#ection( misstates the testimony out of sco&e out of $$
'r( +)*ish& /e"s reviewed it.
Ju%ge& Overruled. )f you know or remem*er.
A( ) don"t *elieve he +ave a s&ecific num*er.
4( /e was una*le to wasn"t he sir?
A( /e stated that normal actuarial ta*les don"t a&&ly to someone with the conditions and *ehaviors of
,ichael Jackson ) *elieve or somethin+ to that effect.
4( Sir he was una*le to +ive a s&ecific life e2&ectancy for ,ichael Jackson( isn"t that true?
A( /e stated he was not a*le to for the reason ) +ave at least in my recollection.
4( ?ow let"s talk a*out $$ some more a*out %r. Earley. Earley you relied $$ let"s &ut *ack his e2hi*it
3>H9H. And let"s take a look at that. So first is %r. Earley. /e mi+ht *e first. Let"s see. Earley is the first
one $$ ri+ht? $$ that you relied on correct?
A( !hat"s correct in &art.
4( Okay. And he was una*le to +ive a s&ecific life e2&ectancy *ecause he wasn"t retained to do that in
this case correct?
A( !hat"s correct a&&reciatin+ that my reference here to life e2&ectancy was wron+.
4( %r. Shimelman said one week if %r. ,urray continued to treat him ri+ht?
A( Effectively yes assumin+ %r. ,urray was &art of the &icture his assessment was one week.
4( %id you &ut any other doctors u& there sir?

A( ) didn"t list them on this &articular sheet of &a&er.
4( And now do you want to add two other doctors to this?
A( .ell ) &reviously testified that ) reviewed %r. Schnoll and %r. Levounis as well.
4( %r. Schnoll did you review his trial testimony?
A( Yes.
4( %id you review where he said ,ichael Jackson could *e a&&ro&riately treated *y a fit and
com&etent &hysician?
A( ) recall testimony to that effect.
4( And %r. Levounis that"s one of the defense e2&erts in this case?
A( Schnoll and Shimelman are the Flaintiffs" e2&erts earley and levounis are the defense e2&erts yes.
4( ) #ust asked a*out %r. Levounis sir. )s he a defense e2&ert?
A( !hat"s correct.
4( %id he +ive a s&ecific life e2&ectancy for ,ichael Jackson?
A( ) don"t *elieve so.
4( %id he say ,ichael Jackson couldn"t have done 41 shows at the 1> arena?
A( ) don"t *elieve he was asked that 8uestion so ) don"t *elieve he stated.
4( %id any doctor in their de&osition or trial testimony say that sir?
A( .ell %r. Shimelman stated a life e2&ectancy of one week. ) don"t know how someone could
&erform for nine months $$
4( -efore %r. ,urray killed him ri+ht?
's( Str-*g& O*#ection your honor( 04>.
Ju%ge& Overruled.
A( <an you restate $$
'r( +)*ish& Let"s +o *ack to your miti+ation. -ecause you $$
Ju%ge& )s there a comment or somethin+?

'r( +)*ish& .ell ) don"t want to $$ sir $$ yes there was your honor( *ut )"m not +oin+ to make an
issue ri+ht now.
Ju%ge& All ri+ht. ?o comments.
's( Str-*g& !here was no comment *y this side of the ta*le your honor.
'r( +)*ish& !here a*solutely was.
4( Sir AEG thou+ht ,ichael Jackson could do 41 shows didn"t they sir?
A( !o the e2tent you"re askin+ me to s&eak to a state of mind as of a moment in time that"s not really
the focus of what ) was tryin+ to do here.
4( <ould you answer my 8uestion &lease sir?
A( .ell AEG /ad a &lan for 41 shows. !hey had a *ud+et for 41 shows they were interested in doin+
41 shows.
4( !hey thou+ht $$ did you read ,r. Gon+aware"s testimony where he said when the li+hts went on
,ichael would *e there he would do 41 shows? %id you read that sir?
A( ) don"t recall his s&ecific affirmation that he would do 41 shows. )f you"d like to show me
somethin+ and refresh my memory )"m ha&&y to look at it.
4( .ho knows more a*out tourin+ you or Faul Gon+aware?
A( ) +uess ) would ask what as&ect of tourin+ s&ecifically. )f you"re referencin+ &roducin+ a tour )
would +ive that to Faul Gon+aware.
4( .ell tell me what as&ect of tourin+ you"re more knowled+e a*out than Faul Gon+aware or Bandy
A( ) can"t s&eak to their s&ecific knowled+e of forecastin+ and assessin+ risk which is what )"ve done
Ju%ge& You need to listen to the 8uestion.
'r( +)*ish& )"ll ask that it *e read *ack &lease.
Ju%ge& You may.
5the 8uestion was read6
A( ) $$ ) don"t know.
4( So if $$ did AEG $$ have they ever hired you to see whether they should do a concert whether it"s
+oin+ to +o forward or anythin+ like that?

A( AEG /as not hired me as an individual in the &ast.
4( /ave they ever hired your com&any to $$ to assess health and risk and &recedent to see whether or
not some*ody could do a concert?
A( ?ot to my knowled+e.
4( .as AEG 'raudulently sellin+ tickets for this 41 shows?
A( ) can"t offer an o&inion on that su*#ect. ) don"t know anythin+ a*out fraud.
4( .ell sir you"re sayin+
there"s no way that the show would ever +o forward ri+ht?
A( -ased on everythin+ we know today with years of discovery and all the record )"ve had the
o&&ortunity to review not as of that moment in time.
4( .ell if you were hired *y AEG you would have advised them not to do the show. %idn"t you
testify to that sir?
A( )f ) was hired *y AEG )n June of >11H knowin+ everythin+ ) know now that would *e $$ ) would
have told them my o&inion that it is s&eculative the nine months of &erformances would have taken
&lace and they will end u& doin+ what they do. Sometimes our clients take our advice sometimes they
4( And you"re not always ri+ht in your advice are you sir?
A( )"m not.
4( .ould you advise them to fire %r. ,urray?
's( Str-*g& O*#ection your honor( outside the sco&e.
Ju%ge& Sustained on that. .e"ve +ot a cou&le of minutes and then we have to ad#ourn.
'r( +)*ish& Okay. .ell let"s talk a*out AEG sir.
4( !hey didn"t think there was no reasona*le de+ree of certainty that this concert was +oin+ to +o
forward when they sold 41 shows to the fans did they?
A( )t"s hard for me to s&eak to s&ecifically what they knew. )t a&&eared they *elieved the shows were
+oin+ to +o forward.
4( -ut now you"re here to tell us there"s no way the shows were +oin+ to +o forward now that this
lawsuit has *een *rou+ht correct?
A( !hat"s not correct.
4( ?o*ody ever consulted you until this lawsuit and the claim for the loss of income was made

A( .e were not hired until early >13>.
4( ?o one consulted with you in any as&ect of this tour until si2 months a+o correct?
A( !hat"s correct.
4( !hree
And a half years after ,ichael Jackson"s death?
A( Okay.
4( )s that true?
A( Yes.
4( /as livenation hired you to assess concerts and the feasi*ility for them sir?
A( ?o.
4( /ave other concert &romoters hired you to assess feasi*ility of concerts?
A( ?o. ,ost of the time our work involvin+ $$ no. )"m tryin+ to +ive you as fulsome of an answer as
Ju%ge& All ri+ht. )t"s :734. H7:4. H7:4.
's( Ste..i*s& Your honor can we talk a*out this *efore the #ury $$ may*e they can come a little later
in the mornin+ so we have time to $$
Ju%ge& ?o( )"ll make you come a little earlier. H7:4.
("he /-ll-0i*g r-cee%i*gs 0ere hel% i* -e* c-urt1 -utsi%e the rese*ce -/ the 2ur-rs$&
Ju%ge& -y ;this; you"re referrin+ to Bandy Jackson?
's( Ste..i*s& ) had su++ested to ,r. -oyle that we review it toni+ht attem&t to meet and confer and
discuss any issues we have with the court in the mornin+ so we have a chance to +et it cut and lined u&
for &layin+ if there"s a +a& in any of the witnesses.
Ju%ge& .hy don"t you come at H701.
'r( +ut*),& )f you want us to do it another time we can.
Ju%ge& ?o. H701.
'r( B-yle& .e"ll try to *e ready. )"ve only +one throu+h one &a+e of the rulin+.

Ju%ge& Just to +ive you a head"s u& ) had some issues with the Bwaram*a $$ her testimony and at
times ) felt like it wasn"t *ein+ offered for the truth and there are other times when ) felt like it was. So
you may stru++le with that as well when you see the rulin+s. !here may *e some times where
o*#ections are sustained and then other times where they"re overruled and you may *e wonderin+ why
is that ha&&enin+. )t"s a little inconsistent. )"ll +ive you a head"s u&.
'r( +ut*),& .e can look at it with that in mind.
's( Ste..i*s& !here"s a cou&le of those your honor where ) would &otentially a+ree with your honor
as to half of the statements *ut not the other half *ut we"ll discuss that tomorrow.
Ju%ge& !hat"s why )"m raisin+ it so you"re aware that )"m aware of that ) know that focus on it and
we"ll talk a*out it.
'r( +)*ish& Your honor ) would like to have com&liance with the order on the su*&oena.
Ju%ge& Okay. You did +et my tentative $$
'r( +)*ish& )t was ordered forthwith at 3701.
Ju%ge& .ell ) had #ust issued it at 3701.
'r( +)*ish& ) understand. ) would like to have that information for further cross$e2amination of the
's( Str-*g& )t looks like with res&ect to ,r. -ri++s ) *elieve that '!)"s res&onse with res&ect to the
su*&oena directed to him is that '!) maintains the records and &roduced what they had in res&onse to
the su*&oena directed to '!) they were identical su*&oenas one to ,r. -ri++s and one to '!).
'r( +ut*),& )f he has anythin+ further you"re sayin+ he"s su&&osed to +ive it.
's( Str-*g& .e"ll let '!) know. ) don"t know that there"s anythin+ additional that they"ll &rovide *ut
we"ll +ive it to them.
'r( +)*ish& )nformation for the secretary that was ty&in+ u& the time sheets.
Ju%ge& !hat"s what ) assume Flaintiff was askin+ for were time sheets for him individually.
'r( +ut*),& .e"ll find out.
's( Str-*g& .e"ll +ive it to '!) and let them $$
Ju%ge& ) said forthwith so you need to call them ri+ht away.
'r( +)*ish& .hen do you think ) mi+ht *e a*le to +et some res&onse?
Ju%ge& )f there are documents.

'r( +ut*),& .e"ll ask. !he time difference hel&s us.
's( Ste..i*s& /e was 8uestioned that he didn"t kee& itemi@ed time sheets #ust track of the time in
Ju%ge& )t sounded like what he said was he would tell his secretary how much time he s&ent on a
client $$ it sounded like &er day. ,ay*e he has somethin+ with some descri&tion.
'r( +ut*),& .e"ll find out.
's( Str-*g& .e"ll certainly find out. ) *elieve the +eneral counsel is in maryland *ut we will reach out
to them.
'r( +ut*),& !hat hel&s *ecause we can +et them in the mornin+ *efore we +et here.
Ju%ge& And then ) wanted an estimate as to when. Advise him that it"s forthwith.
's( Str-*g& Gnderstood. .e"ll certainly do that.
Ju%ge& Okay. )s there anythin+ else?
'r( B-yle& !hank you your honor.
's( Str-*g& !hank you very much your honor.
's( Ste..i*s& !hank you.
(C-urt )%2-ur*e% t- 8e%*es%)y1 July 311 20131 )t 9&30 ),$

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