In The Matter Of

:
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
v.
JEFFERSON COUNTY, ALABAMA, ET. AL.
___________________________________________________

JEFFREY M. SEWELL ‐ Vol. 1
July 30, 2013

__________________________________________
  
                                                                            

JEFFREY M. SEWELL - 7/30/2013
Page 1
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ALABAMA
SOUTHERN DIVISION

CIVIL ACTION NO.:

CV-75-S-666-S

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,
Against,
JEFFERSON COUNTY, ALABAMA, et al.,
Defendants.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - CIVIL ACTION NO.: CV-74-S-17-S
JOHN M. MARTIN, et al.,
Against,
CITY OF BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA, et al.,
Defendants.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - CIVIL ACTION NO.: CV-74-S-12-S
ENSLEY BRANCH OF NAACP, et al.,
Against,
GEORGE SEIBELS, et al.,
Defendants.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - DEPOSITION
OF
JEFFREY M. SEWELL
JULY 30, 2013

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Taken Before:

Jane B. Elliott, CCR

2

ACCR #306 - Expires 9-30-13

3

Notary Public - Expires 11-09-16

4
5
6

A P P E A R A N C E S
FOR THE PLAINTIFFS:

7

CRAVATH, SWAINE & MOORE, LLP

8

Mr. Rowan D. Wilson

9

Worldwide Plaza

10

825 Eighth Avenue

11

New York, NY

12

(212)474-1348 - rwilson@cravath.com

10019-7475

13
14

UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE

15

Civil Rights Division

16

Mr. Jay D. Adelstein (VIA TELEPHONE)

17

Mr. Joseph J. Sperber (VIA TELEPHONE)

18

Patrick Henry Building, Room 4026

19

950 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.

20

Washington, DC

21

(202)514-3749 - jay.d.adelstein@usdoj.gov

20530

22
23
24
25

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(APPEARANCES)

2

FOR THE DEPONENT:

3

LOWE & GRAMMAS, LLP

4

Mr. E. Clayton Lowe, Jr.

5

Liberty Park

6

1952 Urban Center Parkway

7

Vestavia Hills, Alabama

8

(205)380-2499 - clowe@lowegrammas.com

9

35242

FOR THE DEFENDANTS:

10

MAYNARD, COOPER & GALE, PC

11

Mr. David W. Smith

12

Mr. James L. Mitchell

13

Mr. W. Thomas Mayfield, IV

14

Ms. Grace Robinson Murphy

15

1901 Sixth Avenue North

16

2499 Amsouth Harbert Plaza

17

Birmingham, Alabama

18

(205)254-1000 - dsmith@maynardcooper.com

35203-2618

19
20

RILEY, JACKSON

21

Mr. Jay E. Murrill

22

3530 Independence Drive

23

Birmingham, Alabama

24

(205)879-5000 - jay@rileyjacksonlaw.com

35209

25

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(APPEARANCES FOR DEFENDANTS)

2

Mr. Theodore A. Lawson, II

3

Assistant County Attorney

4

Room 280 Courthouse

5

716 Richard Arrington, Jr. Blvd. N.

6

Birmingham, Alabama

7

(205)325-5688 - lawson@jccal.org

35203

8
9
10

ALSO PRESENT:
Ms. Alaizah Koorji

11
12
13

* * *

14
15

I N D E X

16
17

EXAMINATION BY:

PAGE NO.:

18

Mr. Wilson.................................6

19

Mr. Smith..................................102

20

RE-EXAMINATION BY:

21

Mr. Wilson.................................220

22
23
24
25

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EXHIBIT INDEX

2
3
4
5

MAR
Sewell Exhibit
1
Copy of Al.com article, Wright,
4/7/13

39

2

Copy of April 2 memorandum,
Carrington to Sewell

50

3

Copy of letter, 4/8/13, Carrington
to Sewell

71

6
7
8
9
10
11

County Exhibit
1
Copy of resolution of organization, 105
11/10/10
2

Copy of Al.com article, 10/18/12,
Barnett Wright

108

3

Copy of Al.com article, 10/19/12,
Kennedy

112

4

Copy of Al.com article, 10/23/12,
Archibald

114

5

Copy of Al.com article, 11/1/12,
Archibald

118

6

Copy of memorandum, 3/13/13, Sewell 122
to Jefferson County Commission

7

Copy of series of e-mails, 2/25/13

8

Copy of resolution of organization, 152
Carrington

9

Copy of resolution of organization, 155
Sewell

10

Copy of settlement agreement

12
13
14
15
16
17
18
146

19
20
21
22
205

23
24
25

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I, Jane B. Elliott, Certified

2

Shorthand Reporter and Notary Public for the

3

State of Alabama, acting as Commissioner,

4

certify that on this date, pursuant to the

5

Federal Rules of Civil Procedure and the

6

foregoing stipulation of counsel, there came

7

before me at the Westin Birmingham, 2221 Richard

8

Arrington Boulevard, Birmingham, Alabama, on the

9

30th day of July, 2013, commencing at

10

10:00 a.m., JEFFREY M. SEWELL, witness in the

11

above cause, for oral examination, whereupon the

12

following proceedings were had:

13
14

JEFFREY M. SEWELL,

15

being first duly sworn, was

16

examined and testified as follows:

17
18
19

THE REPORTER:
stipulations?

20

MR. WILSON:

21
22

Do you have

We do not.

EXAMINATION
BY MR. WILSON:

23

Q.

Good morning, Mr. Sewell.

24

A.

Good morning.

25

Q.

Can you state your name for the

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record, please?

2

A.

Jeffrey M. Sewell.

3

Q.

And at some point in time you worked

4

for Jefferson County; is that correct?

5

A.

Yes.

6

Q.

When did you start working for

7
8
9

Jefferson County?
A.
believe.

The first time was in about 1982, I
I was in law school and I was a law

10

clerk in the office for a year.

Then went on

11

after law school into the Army in the JAG Corps,

12

and spent four years in the Army and then came

13

back, began working the second time, I believe,

14

on August 28, 1988.

15

Q.

In what capacity?

16

A.

As assistant county attorney.

17

Q.

Who was the county attorney at the

18

time when you came on in 1988?

19

A.

Andy Strickland.

20

Q.

And you reported to Mr. Strickland?

21

A.

Yes.

22

Q.

Did your position change at any time

23

during the course of your employment with

24

Jefferson County?

25

A.

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In November of -- I believe it was

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November of 2008, Andy retired and I was hired

2

or appointed, I guess, promoted, whatever the

3

word is, to county attorney.

4

Q.

So between August 28th of 1988 and

5

November of 2008 your position didn't change,

6

you were assistant county attorney?

7

A.

Correct.

8

Q.

Were there other assistant county

9
10

attorneys during that period of time?
A.

There were, there were other

11

assistants that preceded my second employment

12

and other assistant county attorneys that --

13

that were employed from 1988 up through -- up

14

through, you know, later in years.

15

Wagner is one of them who is now retired, and

16

Theo Lawson and eventually French McMillan and

17

Shawnna Smith.

18

Q.

Charles

Did the assistant county attorneys

19

have different responsibilities by subject

20

matter or type of work?

21

A.

Not in any official capacity, not in

22

any -- you know, there's no record of that, but

23

just by the way things worked out there tended

24

to be certain -- certain of us had certain areas

25

we did, you know, kind of -- I won't say

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specialized in, but that's just kind of what we

2

did and others did other things and we tried not

3

to get in each other's lanes as best we could.

4

Q.

During the time you were assistant

5

county attorney, did you have any responsibility

6

for the United States versus Jefferson case?

7

A.

This case?

8

Q.

This case.

9

A.

No.

10

Q.

During the period of time that you

11
12
13
14

were assistant county attorney, who did?
A.

Charles Wagner for -- for most of the

period of time, and then Theo Lawson.
Q.

And did either Mr. Wagner or

15

Mr. Lawson report to you while you were an

16

assistant county attorney?

17

A.

No.

18

Q.

They reported also to Mr. Strickland?

19

A.

Yes.

20

Q.

When Mr. Strickland was county

21

attorney, what authority did he have to direct

22

Mr. Wagner and Mr. Lawson as to their handling

23

of the U.S. V. Jefferson case?

24
25

A.

He was their direct supervisor and

department head.

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Q.

2

their work --

3

A.

Yes.

4

Q.

-- in that case?

5

So he had the ability to supervise

Did Mr. Strickland, while he was

6

county attorney, have the authority to direct

7

Mr. Wagner and Mr. Lawson as to the steps the

8

county would take to comply with the consent

9

decree -- consent decree in this case?

10

A.

He -- subject to the client, the

11

county commission, subject to their instruction

12

and direction, he did.

13
14

Q.

Then I think you said in November of

2008 you became county attorney?

15

A.

I believe that's right.

16

Q.

Okay.

17

And that was on

Mr. Strickland's retirement?

18

A.

It was.

19

Q.

Was there a gap at all?

20

A.

I don't think there was.

There is a

21

resolution of the commission that sets the date

22

that he retired.

23

I think it was October 31st, I'm not certain,

24

but I think the next Monday was November 2nd or

25

3rd, and I think that was my first day as county

1-800-325-3376

I don't recall exactly what --

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attorney.

2
3

Q.

Was there a -- do you know how you

were selected for the position?

4

A.

Oh, yes.

There had been -- I don't

5

want to get into the conversations with,

6

I guess, the commission, but there was a process

7

involved and it culminated in a vote of the

8

county commission and that would be recorded in

9

the minutes in around October or November of

10

2008.

11

Q.

12

commission?

13

A.

14

commission.

15

Q.

16
17

Were you interviewed by the

I was not formally interviewed by the

Do you know if the commission had

other candidates that were considered?
A.

There were other lawyers that had, I

18

will use the term "lobbied," for the job.

19

was aware of that.

20
21

Q.

And I

I tried to stay out of that.

Were those lawyers employees of the

county at the time?

22

A.

No.

23

Q.

Once you became county attorney, who

24

had the -- starting November 2008, who had the

25

day-to-day responsibility for handling the U.S.

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V. Jefferson litigation?

2

A.

Charlie Wagner.

He had entered an

3

appearance years ago.

4

if Theo in 2008, he probably had, I'm not going

5

to swear to that, I don't remember, but Charlie

6

was directly responsible for this case until he

7

retired at the -- I believe at the end of 2010.

8

I believe that's right.

9

Q.

And I don't really recall

Was Mr. Wagner also responsible until

10

the point that he retired for supervising the

11

county's consent decree compliance issues

12

related to this case?

13
14

A.

To -- subject to the client's

instructions and -- yes.

15

Q.

The client being the county

16

commission?

17

A.

Yes.

18

Q.

Are you aware that a contempt hearing

19

against Jefferson County commenced in March

20

2009?

21
22
23

A.

I am aware of it.

I was not present

at it but I know that it happened.
Q.

And were you aware that the county,

24

for example, submitted a -- a trial exhibit list

25

in October of 2008 in connection with that

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2
3
4
5

trial?
A.

Vaguely aware of it.

I don't recall

that I have seen it.
Q.

In October 2008, did you have any

responsibilities for the U.S. V. Jefferson case?

6

A.

No.

7

Q.

Are you aware that in 2009, in

8

advance of the trial, the county submitted a

9

pretrial memorandum of law in connection with

10

the contempt hearing?

11

A.

Vaguely aware of it.

12

Q.

Did you -- do you recall having any

13

involvement in directing or supervising the

14

county's 2009 trial strategy?

15

A.

I did not.

16

Q.

You had become the county attorney in

17

late 2008, I think you said.

18

issues were you focused on for the first several

19

months when you became county attorney?

20

A.

Were there -- what

The county's financial condition.

In

21

the early part of 2008, actually late 2007, the

22

financing structure of the sewer debt had begun

23

to collapse and it got worse over the course of

24

the 2008 period.

25

collapse, the occupational tax was invalidated,

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And the general fund began to

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and my attention was on the county's financial

2

condition.

3

Q.

Are you generally familiar with the

4

position that the county took at the

5

commencement of the 2009 contempt hearing?

6

A.

Not -- not really, no.

7

Q.

Do you know whether the county in

8

March of 2009 admitted any violation of the

9

consent decree?

10

A.

I don't know.

11

Q.

Do you know somebody named Janet

12

Thornton?

13

A.

14

she is.

15

Q.

Well, tell me what you know about

17

A.

As I recall, she's a consultant of

18

the county.

19

Q.

For what purpose?

20

A.

For this case.

21

Q.

And did you have any role or

16

22

I have met Mrs. Thornton.

I know who

I don't know her well.

her.

responsibility, involvement, in retaining her?

23

A.

I don't believe that I did.

24

Q.

Did you have any responsibility or

25

role in supervising the work she did for the

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county?

2

A.

No.

3

Q.

Have you ever read her deposition

4

testimony or trial testimony?

5

A.

I don't recall.

6

Q.

If I tell you she produced reports

7

for the county relating to this case in 2008, do

8

you know whether you had any involvement in the

9

supervision of that work?

10

A.

In 2008 I would not have, no.

11

Q.

Now, you're generally aware that the

12

trial that started in 2009 was adjourned for a

13

couple of years?

14

A.

Yes.

15

Q.

And that it resumed in December of

16

2012?

17

A.

Yes.

18

Q.

As county attorney were you involved

19

in the county's trial strategy at all for the

20

2012 resumption of the trial?

21

A.

Yes.

22

Q.

Were you aware prior to the start of

23

the trial that the county had admitted in its

24

pretrial memorandum of law that it was in

25

violation of many of the decree provisions?

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MR. SMITH:

Object to the form of the

2

question and object to the witness providing

3

communications between attorneys over that

4

litigation strategy.

5

MR. WILSON:

6

MR. SMITH:

7

Well, the witness is not

under my control, to my knowledge.

8
9

Is that an instruction?

MR. LOWE:

Right.

If you're raising

an attorney-client privilege objection, then I

10

would direct him not to answer anything that

11

would reveal such privilege.

12

And since we're on this topic, the

13

county has made it quite clear they're concerned

14

about Mr. Sewell revealing privilege in this

15

deposition, so I foresee additional instances of

16

this arising in at least three ways.

17

ask Mr. Sewell a question, he objects based on

18

privilege.

19

assert and not Mr. Sewell's, I'm going to direct

20

Mr. Sewell not to answer, like in this instance.

21

One is you

Since it's the county's privilege to

The second scenario I would see would

22

be you ask Mr. Sewell a question, Mr. Smith does

23

not object; however, Mr. Sewell believes that

24

his answer may reveal something privileged, he

25

will say let me confer with my attorney.

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I will

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in turn confer with Mr. Smith.

2

it's privileged, then I will direct him not to

3

answer.

4

If he believes

In the third scenario, you ask

5

Mr. Sewell a question, he doesn't object,

6

Mr. Smith doesn't object, Mr. Sewell answers

7

believing that his answer does not contain a

8

privilege, and indeed the county may think it

9

does, then I believe it's incumbent upon the

10

county to assert it at that point and we'll take

11

it up then.

12
13

Is everybody okay with proceeding
that way?

14
15

MR. ADELSTEIN:
it's Clay Lowell speaking?

16

MR. LOWE:

17

MR. ADELSTEIN:

18

MR. LOWE:

19

Am I correct that

Lowe, yeah, L-O-W-E.
Thank you.

I'm sorry, I forgot all

about you being on the telephone.

20

MR. WILSON:

That -- that is a -- I

21

guess the only thing I would ask is that if

22

Mr. Smith is making an objection that concerns

23

an assertion of privilege, that he put the word

24

privilege somewhere into whatever he puts on the

25

record.

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MR. LOWE:

I agree with that.

2

MR. WILSON:

Because the last one, I

3

couldn't tell if it was purely a form objection

4

or if there was some concern that there was a

5

privileged communication problem.

6
7

MR. SMITH:
note that.

8
9

In the deposition -- I'll

In the deposition, typically in a
deposition we stipulate at the outset that

10

objections other than as to form are reserved,

11

and of course privilege is an issue where the

12

county attorney is being deposed.

13

reserving other objections?

14

MR. WILSON:

Are we

I think the Federal

15

Rules reserve objections as to hearsay and so

16

on, but privilege I've never understood to be

17

that sort of a thing.

18

assert it if you intend to --

19

MR. LOWE:

I think you need to

And I understood at the

20

beginning we said there were no stipulations in

21

addition to what -- the rules that apply.

22
23

MR. SMITH:

So you said what about stipulations?

24
25

See, I didn't hear that.

MR. WILSON:

That there were no

stipulations, but I believe the Federal Rules

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explicitly preserve objections other than as to

2

form.

3

MR. LOWE:

But back to your question,

4

it would probably help to reread the question,

5

let him make his objection more succinctly and

6

move on from there.

7

How about that?

MR. WILSON:

That's fine.

If I --

8

sure, and just as long as I understand that you

9

have a privilege issue in the objection, that's

10

all I need.

11
12

MR. SMITH:

Sure, and I'll do my best

to articulate something about it.

13

MR. WILSON:

14

MR. SMITH:

Thank you.
And so to clarify, my

15

last objection was an objection to privilege

16

concerns.

17

be, but it was a question about information he

18

had, and not knowing the foundation of that at

19

all my concern is that I have to assert

20

privilege to the question as phrased.

21

I don't know what the answer would

MR. WILSON:

22

different question.

23

MR. LOWE:

24

Okay.

Let me try a

Are we withdrawing the

last one?

25

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Mr. WILSON:

Sure.

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MR. LOWE:

2

MR. WILSON:

Okay.
Well, there's been an

3

objection and an instruction, so we'll just

4

leave it at that and I'll move on.

5

MR. LOWE:

6

Q.

Okay.

(BY MR. WILSON)

Do you recall

7

reading the county's 2012 pretrial memorandum

8

before it was filed with the court?

9

A.

I do recall reading it.

10

Q.

And do you recall commenting on it at

A.

Yes.

11
12

all?

13

MR. SMITH:

14

MR. WILSON:

15

Objection.
To anyone.

To whom?
I didn't ask

for the substance of the comment.

16

MR. SMITH:

Object on privilege.

If

17

he provided legal advice about it, we assert the

18

privilege.

19

or you about it, then it wouldn't be privileged.

20

If he talked to Judge Smith about it

MR. WILSON:

Well, the fact that he

21

commented on it even to a client, unless I'm

22

asking for the substance of the comment, isn't

23

seeking privileged information.

24

information you have to provide on a privilege

25

log were there one.

1-800-325-3376

It's

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MR. SMITH:

Information you have to

2

provide on a privilege log what?

3

MR. WILSON:

Were there one.

All I'm

4

asking is whether a conversation existed.

5

the answer's no, then it's no.

6

yes, I'm not going to inquire about the

7

substance.

8
9

MR. SMITH:

If

If the answer is

And I suppose then it'd

be important to say that if the question is a

10

yes or no question, that the answer be limited

11

to yes or no rather than going on into what the

12

yes might have behind it so that we can judge it

13

one question at a time.

14

MR. LOWE:

That's fair enough.

I

15

think what he's saying, and you certainly

16

realize that if he asks you a yes or no

17

question, say yes or no.

18

don't divulge the explanation for the yes or no.

19
20

THE WITNESS:

I think I understand

that.

21
22

If he objects you

MR. LOWE:
Q.

He does.

(BY MR. WILSON)

So the question is

23

did you comment on the pretrial memorandum

24

before it was filed?

25

A.

1-800-325-3376

Yes.

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Q.

Are you aware that the county's

2

pretrial memorandum contains a number of

3

stipulations of violations of the consent

4

decree?

5

A.

Yes.

6

Q.

And you were aware of that before it

7

was filed?

8

MR. SMITH:

9

MR. LOWE:

10

MR. SMITH:

11

MR. LOWE:

Objection.
What's the grounds?
Privilege.
Direct him not to answer,

12

based on the county asserting the privilege and

13

it's not Mr. Sewell's privilege to assert.

14
15

Q.

(BY MR. WILSON)

Did you read a draft

of the pretrial memorandum?

16

A.

Yes.

17

Q.

And when you read the draft, did you

18

see stipulations of violations of the consent

19

decree in it?

20

A.

Yes.

21

Q.

In 2012, did you have the authority

22

to alter the contents of filings to be made with

23

the courts if you believed them to be wrong?

24

A.

Yes.

25

Q.

Is it a fair characterization to say

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that the county's position as to the

2

Martin-Bryant party's motion for contempt

3

changed between 2009 and 2012?

4

A.

Yes.

5

Q.

Did you have any role in that

6

change?

7
8

MR. SMITH:

Objection to the extent

it calls for privileged information.

9

MR. LOWE:

That was a yes or no.

10

MR. WILSON:

11

THE WITNESS:

12

MR. LOWE:

13

16

Answer?

Answering yes doesn't

reveal any privilege.

14
15

Just a yes or no.

THE WITNESS:

The answer to the

question is yes.
Q.

(BY MR. WILSON)

I don't recall

17

seeing you at the 2012 trial.

18

any portions of it?

19
20
21
22

A.

I did not.

Did you attend

I don't recall that I've

ever entered an appearance in that case.
Q.

Did you read any of the trial

testimony after it occurred?

23

A.

Yes.

24

Q.

Did you read any of the trial

25

testimony given by county commissioners?

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A.

Yes.

2

Q.

Did you read all of the trial

3

testimony given by the county commissioners?

4

A.

Yes.

5

Q.

Do you recall when you first did

6

that?

7

A.

Very soon after the trial.

8

Q.

And have you read their testimony

9

more than once?

10

A.

Yes.

11

Q.

Do you recall the -- let's start

12

slowly.

13

testifying to the following in response to a

14

question:

15

making sure the county comes into compliance

16

with the consent decree?

Do you recall Commissioner Stephens

Are you personally committed to

17

Answer:

18

Question:

One hundred percent.
Are you committed to

19

allowing Manager Petelos to take the steps

20

needed without interference from the county

21

commission?

22
23

Answer:

and uphold the law and that is the law.

24
25

Yes, sir, I agree to abide

Do you recall testimony to that
effect by Commissioner Stephens?

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A.

I recall reading that.

2

Q.

Yeah -- yes.

3

Sorry.

That's my

question.

4

Do you recall reading a colloquy

5

between Judge Smith and Commissioner Stephens

6

about an incident involving Commissioner

7

Stephens' interference with employment

8

decisions?

9

A.

Yes.

10

Q.

And do you recall -- well, do you

11

have any recollection of what your perception of

12

Judge Smith's comments were, if any?

13

A.

Yes.

14

Q.

And what was your perception of that

15

testimony?

16

A.

Of Judge Smith's comments?

17

Q.

Correct.

18

A.

That Judge Smith was making it very

19

clear what Judge Smith expected.

20

Q.

And what was that?

21

A.

Compliance.

22

Q.

Do you recall that Commissioner

23

Knight also testified at the trial?

24

A.

Yes.

25

Q.

And do you recall reading testimony

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of Commissioner Knight to the following effect:

2

Question, all right, do you plan in any way to

3

interfere with Mr. Petelos' duties as the

4

appointing authority of Jefferson County?

5

Answer:

No, sir.

6

Question:

Do you believe that

7

Mr. Petelos is committed to compliance with the

8

consent decree?

9
10

Answer:

I do believe that he's fully

willfully compliant with this consent decree.

11

Question:

Do you believe that the

12

commission is committed to compliance with the

13

consent decree?

14

Answer:

15

Question:

16

Yes.
What about you

individually?

17

Answer:

Absolutely.

18

Do you recall that testimony?

19

A.

I recall reading it, yes.

20

Q.

And do you recall Judge Smith having

21

the colloquy with Commissioner Knight as well in

22

which he used the phrase "heavy feet"?

23

A.

I recall reading it.

24

Q.

Did you attend a meeting of the

25

Jefferson County Commission's Administrative

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Services Committee on April 12, 2013?

2

A.

Yes.

3

Q.

And who was on the -- who were the

4

members of the administrative services

5

committee?

6

A.

All five of the county commissioners.

7

Q.

Do you know whether Mr. Petelos was

8

present at the meeting?

9

A.

I don't think that he was.

10

Q.

Were members of the public present at

11

the meeting?

12

A.

Yes.

13

Q.

Was the press present at the meeting?

14

A.

Yes.

15

Q.

Do you know whether the meeting was

16

open to anyone who wanted to attend?

17
18
19
20

A.

It was a public meeting under Alabama

Q.

So you didn't need an invitation, you

law.

could simply show up?

I could have shown up?

21

A.

Absolutely.

22

Q.

And I wouldn't have been turned away?

23

A.

Should not have been.

24

Q.

Were you there for the whole meeting?

25

A.

Yes.

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1
2

Q.

And do you remember speaking at the

meeting?

3

A.

I do.

4

Q.

Do you recall whether there was any

5

dispute about whether you should be allowed to

6

speak at the meeting?

7

A.

Yes.

8

Q.

And what do you recall about that?

9

MR. SMITH:

10

of the term dispute.

11

A.

Object to the form, use
You may go ahead.

I just -- I recall that there was

12

some debate between county commissioners as to

13

whether I should be allowed to speak.

14
15
16

Q.

(BY MR. WILSON)

And do you recall

who was on which side of the debate?
A.

Not really, to be honest with you.

17

-- I just recall that there was discussion

18

and -- which I stayed out of, as I recall.

19
20

Q.

I

And ultimately you were allowed to

speak?

21

A.

I was.

22

Q.

Do you recall saying at the meeting

23

that the awarding of a merit raise by Tony

24

Petelos is one of several personnel matters that

25

the commissioners have no role in anymore, all

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of you have made that clear in your testimony to

2

Judge Smith, do you understand that?

3

A.

Do I recall saying that?

4

Q.

At the meeting?

5

A.

I do.

6

Q.

Now, in October 2012, did the county

7
8
9

commission give you a pay raise?
A.

They -- they awarded a raise.

I

don't remember the exact date, but --

10

Q.

Somewhere in late 2012?

11

A.

Somewhere in that time, yes.

12

Q.

Do you recall seeing any statements

13

by Commissioner Carrington concerning his views

14

of the -- of your job performance?

15

A.

Yes.

16

Q.

And what do you recall him saying?

17

A.

To me or to others?

18

Q.

Either way.

19

MR. SMITH:

Yeah, I mean, we assert

20

the privilege.

21

talking about the media coverage, but we assert

22

the privilege over any communication that would

23

fall within, you know, attorney/client

24

privilege.

25

1-800-325-3376

I don't know -- well, you were

MR. WILSON:

So you're -- just so I'm

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clear, if Commissioner Carrington told

2

Mr. Sewell something about Mr. Sewell's

3

performance, you view that as attorney/client

4

privilege?

5

MR. SMITH:

Was the question limited

6

-- see, you've got your hand over your face

7

while you're asking questions and I am

8

struggling to hear you.

9

MR. WILSON:

10

MR. SMITH:

I'm sorry.
It's okay.

I -- but I'm

11

not playing a game about not hearing as well as

12

I'd like, but I thought that you were asking him

13

about statements Carrington made about his

14

performance and didn't limit it to statements

15

made to Jeff.

16
17

MR. WILSON:

I did not limit it to

statements to Jeff.

18

MR. SMITH:

And so if Commissioner

19

Carrington sought legal advice about that, then

20

that would be something that falls within

21

privilege.

22

scenarios that could be behind that.

23

Q.

And I don't know the various

(BY MR. WILSON)

All right.

Let me

24

ask you to exclude from your answer any legal

25

advice Commissioner Carrington sought from you

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about your job performance and instead ask --

2

well, and let's take it in little pieces.

3

you have any conversations directly with

4

Commissioner Carrington about your job

5

performance at or around the time the commission

6

awarded you a raise?

7

A.

Yes.

8

Q.

And in the course of those

9
10

conversations with Commissioner Carrington, was
he seeking legal advice from you?

11

A.

No.

12

Q.

Was he commenting on how well he

13

Did

thought you performed the job?

14

A.

Yes.

15

Q.

And tell me what you remember about

16

that conversation.

17

A.

It was all very positive.

18

Q.

Do you recall him saying anything

19

negative, room for improvement, critical,

20

anything like that?

21

A.

No.

22

Q.

How many conversations did you have

23

with him on the subject of your performance?

24

A.

I don't recall.

25

Q.

Do you recall any statements that

1-800-325-3376

Several.

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Commissioner Carrington made to the press about

2

your performance?

3

A.

I do.

4

Q.

And do you recall him saying

5

something to the effect of there is not a member

6

of the commission who has not told me how much

7

they value Jeff's knowledge and his guidance to

8

this council, we believe he's a valued member of

9

our team.

10

A.

I recall being present at a meeting

11

when those words were spoken and I recall

12

reading them in various media.

13
14

Q.

Somewhere around the time of your pay

raise?

15

A.

Somewhere around that time.

16

Q.

Do you recall at the April 12, 2013

17

committee meeting stating that on the afternoon

18

of April 2nd you got a memo from Commissioner

19

Carrington that outlined seven performance

20

deficiencies?

21

A.

Do I recall stating myself at the

22

April 12th meeting that I had received a memo

23

from Commissioner Carrington on April 2nd, on

24

the afternoon of April 2nd --

25

Q.

1-800-325-3376

Correct.

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A.

-- outlining seven performance

2

deficiencies?

3

Q.

Yes.

4

A.

Yes, I recall saying that.

5

Q.

Okay.

Did you also -- do you also

6

recall telling the commission at the April 12th

7

meeting that that was the first memo of

8

performance deficiency that you've ever

9

received, not just as an attorney for Jefferson

10

County for 25 years but also for four years

11

before that as a JAG lawyer?

12

A.

I recall --

13

Q.

Saying that?

14

A.

The substance of that, yes.

I don't

15

recall the exact words I used, but I do recall

16

saying that.

17

Q.

Was that statement in substance true?

18

A.

Yes.

19

Q.

So the April 2nd memo you got from

20

Commissioner Carrington was the first written

21

negative review of your job performance you had

22

received ever?

23

A.

Yes.

24

Q.

Now, earlier on the day of April 2nd,

25

2013, did you write or deliver a memo to the

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Jefferson County Commission?

2

A.

Did I write or deliver?

3

Q.

Let's say did you deliver?

4

A.

I did not deliver.

5

Q.

Did you write a memo to the

6

commission on April 2nd?

7

MR. SMITH:

Objection, work product.

8

MR. WILSON:

It was just a question

9

of whether a memorandum exists, not the

10

substance, but if you're going to instruct him

11

not to answer that --

12

MR. LOWE:

13

MR. WILSON:

14

MR. LOWE:

Well, it's up to me -Right.
-- to instruct him not to

15

answer, but he's making a work product

16

objection.

17

the objection?

18

asking the substance of it.

What's -- what's the substance of
Did he author a memo?

19

MR. SMITH:

20

MR. LOWE:

He's not

Are you --

Well, if he -He hasn't even identified

21

the memo, he just said did you write a memo on a

22

particular date.

23

MR. SMITH:

24

answer to did you write a memo.

25

1-800-325-3376

MR. LOWE:

All right.

I'll allow an

On whatever particular

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date.

2

Q.

(BY MR. WILSON)

April 2nd, 2013.

3

A.

I co-wrote a memo.

4

Q.

Okay.

5

A.

My memory is that the memo was on my

Who were your co-authors?

6

letterhead and my name was on it, along with

7

Theo Lawson, Ted Hosp and perhaps Grace Murphy.

8

If someone has the memo, then that would -- I

9

don't have it.

10
11

Q.

Do you know who prepared the initial

draft of that memo?

12

A.

I -- I don't remember.

13

Q.

Do you know whether it was you?

14

A.

It may have been.

I just -- you have

15

to understand, I write a lot of memos -- I wrote

16

a lot of memos.

17

Q.

18

advice?

19

A.

I think that it probably fairly did.

20

Q.

Did it provide legal advice to the

21

Did that memorandum provide legal

Jefferson County Commission?

22

A.

Yes.

23

Q.

Generally speaking, without revealing

24

the advice, was the subject whether the

25

commission's actions were consistent with the

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county manager law?

2
3

MR. SMITH:

Objection, assert

privilege.

4

MR. LOWE:

I agree with him on that

5

one.

6

reveal privilege, so I direct him not to answer.

7
8

I mean, the subject in that memo would

Q.

(BY MR. WILSON)

Did the subject have

anything to do with the county manager act?

9

MR. SMITH:

10

MR. LOWE:

11

Q.

Object, assert privilege.
Direct him not to answer.

(BY MR. WILSON)

Did the memorandum

12

contain any discussion about the contempt

13

hearing in the U.S. V. Jefferson case?

14

MR. SMITH:

15

MR. LOWE:

16

Objection, privilege.
I'll have to direct him

not to answer based on their objection.

17

Q.

(BY MR. WILSON)

Are you aware of an

18

article in "The Birmingham News," or AL.com that

19

describes the April 2 memo in the following

20

way:

21

manager the Jefferson County Commission has not

22

formally relinquished their oversight of

23

department heads and is out of compliance with

24

the county manager law, the county's attorney

25

warned this week in a memo obtained by AL.com,

Eighteen months after hiring a county

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"The Birmingham News."

2
3
4

MR. SMITH:

Objection, assert

privilege.
Q.

(BY MR. WILSON)

Well, I think all I

5

asked -- I may not have asked it.

6

reading an article that said that?

7

MR. SMITH:

8

yes/no answer to that question.

Do you recall

I don't object to the

9

A.

Yes.

10

Q.

(BY MR. WILSON)

When you read that

11

article, did you reach any conclusion about

12

whether "The Birmingham News" had actually

13

obtained a copy of the memo?

14
15

MR. SMITH:
second?

I need a minute to --

16
17

MR. LOWE:

That phone is getting

annoying.

18
19

May I have just a

MR. SMITH:

It compounds the hearing

problem.

20

MR. LOWE:

21

don't have a hearing problem.

22
23

MR. SMITH:

Yeah, mine too, and I

Ma'am, would you read

that question back to me, please?

24

(Whereupon the requested

25

portion of testimony was

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read.)

2

MR. SMITH:

If the question is, on

3

reading it if you had a mental operation about

4

whether they have it, then I don't object to

5

that, but if he undertook to investigate it,

6

then that's a separate thing.

7

your question does trigger the possibility of

8

privileged information being provided in the

9

answer.

So I think that

So without knowing the answer, we make

10

our objection that no privileged information

11

should be provided in response.

12

Q.

(BY MR. WILSON)

Okay.

To be clear,

13

I'm not asking whether you undertook any effort

14

at all.

15

it did you think that the paper has the article

16

-- I'm sorry, has the memorandum?

I'm asking purely about when you read

17

A.

Did I think that?

18

Q.

Uh-huh (INDICATING AFFIRMATIVE).

19
20

MR. LOWE:
can answer.

21
22

David's nodding that he

MR. SMITH:

And I -- I mean, if

there's an objection I'll say it.

23

MR. WILSON:

24

MR. LOWE:

25

MR. SMITH:

1-800-325-3376

Okay.

Good.

All right.
I don't mean to -- Jeff

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was looking at me that moment.

2

MR. LOWE:

3

we are a little --

4
5

Oh, I understand because

THE WITNESS:
(PHONE RINGING).

6

MR. LOWE:

7

THE WITNESS:

8

Was that you?
Unfortunately.

Thought

I turned it off.

9
10

So I can answer?

So I can answer the question, did I
think the newspaper had a copy of the memo?

11

Q.

(BY MR. WILSON)

That's the question.

12

A.

I don't recall thinking whether they

13

might have had a copy or not.

I just -- I don't

14

remember thinking that.

15

much about the article and I don't know if they

16

have a copy of it, or had a copy of it.

17

don't know.

I don't remember too

18

MR. WILSON:

19

Exhibit 1 a copy of the article.

I just

Let me mark as Sewell

20

(Whereupon, Exhibit 1 was marked for

21

identification, a copy of which is

22

attached hereto.)

23

MR. SMITH:

24

MR. WILSON:

25

May I have 30 seconds?
Of course.

Do you want

to take a copy with you?

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2

MR. SMITH:

I have one -- I will take

a copy.

3

(Whereupon, a short recess was

4

had, 10:36 a.m. - 10:38 a.m.)

5
6

Q.

(BY MR. WILSON)

Have you had a

chance to look at the article in AL.com?

7

A.

Yes.

8

Q.

I'm not going to read the whole thing

9

into the record or have you do that, but reading

10

it now, do you believe that the newspaper has a

11

copy of your April 2nd memorandum?

12

MR. LOWE:

Is your question to him

13

just from reading this did he assume that they

14

had a copy of it?

15

MR. WILSON:

16

would he draw that conclusion.

17

MR. LOWE:

18

As he reads it now, yes,

There's apparently no

objection.

19

MR. SMITH:

20

MR. LOWE:

21

MR. SMITH:

Well, let me say this -Or is he pondering?
It's -- my concern is

22

that we not have testimony that is protected as

23

privileged because it amounts to the county

24

attorney forming a legal opinion or -- or in

25

effect starting toward work product.

1-800-325-3376

And these

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are gray areas, they're certainly difficult for

2

me, so I don't know what the next question is,

3

but if the question, if I'm recalling the

4

question correctly and the question is from

5

reading this piece of paper here today, do you

6

think they have a copy, and that is the entirety

7

of the question, then I'm not going to object to

8

privilege on some thought he has here today.

9
10

MR. WILSON:
question.

11

MR. SMITH:

12

MR. LOWE:

13

That's the entirety of

A.

Thank you.
Go ahead.

I don't know if they had a copy of

14

the article or not.

15

there are several quotes that appear to be

16

quotes from the memo in quotation marks which

17

suggests to me that the author of the article

18

had at least seen the memo, but whether they

19

have a copy, I don't know.

20

Q.

I note in the article that

(BY MR. WILSON)

Do you recall at the

21

April 12th, 2013 committee meeting telling the

22

committee, there are changes in that resolution

23

that you need to make that -- that you need to

24

make to make that document comply with the

25

existing law of Alabama and you got the memo

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from me about that?

2

A.

I recall words to that effect, yes.

3

Q.

And the memo from me about that that

4

you referred to in that portion of the committee

5

meeting was the April 2 memo we've been talking

6

about?

7

A.

Yes.

8

Q.

Do you recall that Commissioner

9

Carrington started the April 12th, 2013

10

committee meeting by saying that the memo that

11

you sent expressed an opinion that the

12

commission's committee structure outlined in the

13

commission's organizational resolution that

14

Mr. Sewell participated in drafting and

15

recommended for adoption in 2010 was somehow

16

inconsistent with the county manager act?

17

A.

I recall words to that effect, yes.

18

Q.

That Mr. Carrington said at the

19

committee hearing?

20

A.

Words to that effect, yes.

21

Q.

Do you recall one of commissioners at

22

the committee hearing on April 12th saying that,

23

with regard to the April 2nd memo that you'd

24

written, we all kind of know what it said

25

because it was published in the paper, or pieces

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of it were?

2

A.

I don't have any memory of that.

3

Q.

Okay.

We're going to try and play

4

you an audio clip and see if you can identify

5

who this is.

6

A.

Okay.

7

Q.

This is an audio clip from a

8

recording produced to us by the county

9

purporting to be a recording of this committee

10

meeting.

11

(PLAYING RECORDING)

And -- and would

12

it be prudent for you as the county attorney to

13

say, hey guys, I've got this coming up?

14

know, you may have forgotten about it, I don't

15

know, you knew about it, and I don't know, I

16

don't feel like you communicated that to us.

17

The April 2nd memorandum is -- here we had this

18

organizational chart in 2010 when we came in and

19

it -- it says what it says.

20

consent hearing, the contempt hearing, and

21

several months passed by and the issue never

22

became paramount until April 2nd, 2010.

23

think that was in response to Mr. Carrington

24

putting forth a resolution to add another

25

committee for the county manager so that we can

1-800-325-3376

You

And we had the

And I

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kind of shift all those departments under county

2

manager to him, and -- and then had the county

3

attorney to have a committee.

4

and Mr. Carrington, I think y'all told me y'all

5

had talked, and we're in this committee meeting

6

and then you pull out a memorandum and put it

7

down, and we kind of stepped back and took that

8

deep breath, and then a few days later you came

9

with that other memorandum saying it was, I

And I know you

10

guess, an emergency.

And so I guess my question

11

is why did it become so, you know, a burning

12

issue on April the 2nd, because, you know, we

13

all know kind of what -- what it said because it

14

was published in the paper, or pieces of it

15

were.

16

going, hey, let's -- on the organization, we

17

need to address it -- (RECORDING STOPPED).

And so as opposed to the county attorney

18

Q.

(BY MR. WILSON)

19

if you know?

20

A.

21

Knight.

22

Q.

Okay.

Who is that,

That sounds to be Commissioner Joe

I had asked you previously whether

23

prior to April 2nd -- prior to April 2nd you had

24

ever received any written complaints about your

25

performance while employed with Jefferson

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County.

I think your answer was no.

2

A.

None that I can recall.

3

Q.

Do you recall ever receiving any oral

4

complaints about your performance prior to April

5

2nd from any of the county commissioners?

6

MR. SMITH:

Let me interject an

7

objection.

I'm concerned that if -- about

8

discussions between Commissioner Carrington and

9

Mr. Sewell can include topics that we will

10

assert privilege on and where -- where what they

11

disagree about is the county's legal strategy or

12

the approach to handling a legal matter, that

13

there's a privilege there.

14

that privilege objection at this point on the

15

topic of where the subject of the question is

16

performance concerns or some similar phrase.

17

MR. LOWE:

And so we assert

But just so we're clear,

18

you don't have an objection to him answering

19

questions regarding discussions that solely

20

involve performance issues?

21

MR. SMITH:

22

MR. LOWE:

Well -That don't overlap or

23

disclose anything about legal strategies, work

24

product or whatever?

25

MR. SMITH:

1-800-325-3376

Well, I --

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MR. LOWE:

And the reason I say that,

2

you allowed him to answer earlier about a

3

performance question.

4

now, are you?

5
6

MR. SMITH:
that.

7
8

So you're not backing up

Yeah, I'm concerned about

I -MR. WILSON:

Let me, if I can

shortcut this, not to interrupt you.

9

MR. LOWE:

10

MR. WILSON:

No, please do.
But all I asked was a

11

yes or no question about whether he ever has had

12

a discussion with a county commissioner in which

13

he received some sort of a negative evaluation

14

of his performance.

15

substance, just did the conversation express

16

this, yes or no.

17
18

MR. SMITH:

I didn't ask for the

All right.

No objection

to a yes/no answer to that question.

19

A.

You have to put a time frame on it,

20

before when?

21

Q.

(BY MR. WILSON)

Well, I initially

22

asked from the time that you started work for

23

the county as an assistant county attorney up

24

through April 1st of 2013.

25

A.

1-800-325-3376

I don't recall ever having received

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an oral --

2
3

MR. SMITH:

We were looking for a yes

or no, I think.

4

THE WITNESS:

5

MR. SMITH:

6

my concern is beyond yes or no.

7

MR. WILSON:

8

I'm sorry.
No, I'm only pointing out

Well, sorry.

Yes, no or

I don't recall, I think, would be acceptable.

9

MR. SMITH:

It would.

10

A.

I don't recall any.

11

Q.

(BY MR. WILSON)

Prior to April 2 of

12

2013, did you believe that you had a good

13

working relationship with the commissioners?

14

A.

Yes.

15

Q.

Did you, prior to April 1st of 2013,

16

work with outside attorneys for Jefferson

17

County?

18

A.

Yes.

19

Q.

Often, not often?

20

A.

All day, every day.

21

Q.

On a variety of different matters?

22

A.

Yes.

23

Q.

From a variety of different firms?

24

A.

Yes.

25

Q.

Do you have any reason to believe

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that any of them prior to April 1st of 2013

2

questioned your abilities or competence?

3
4

MR. SMITH:

Objection, assert

privilege.

5

MR. WILSON:

6

MR. LOWE:

7

Just a yes or no?
Do you have a problem with

him answering yes or no to that?

8

MR. SMITH:

Not just yes or no.

9

A.

Please restate.

I'm sorry.

10

Q.

(BY MR. WILSON)

Sure.

Prior to

11

April 2nd of 2013, do you have any reason to

12

believe that any of the outside lawyers you

13

worked with had complaints about your abilities

14

or competence?

15

A.

No.

16

Q.

Before April 2 of 2013, had you been

17

notified by anyone that your management of

18

outside lawyers was deficient in any way?

19

MR. SMITH:

Sorry, just a second.

20

Will you read that back to me, please?

21

sorry.

22

(Whereupon, the question was

23

read.)

24

MR. SMITH:

25

I'm

Anything other than a

yes/no, I'd object to on the basis of privilege.

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2

THE WITNESS:
moment.

3

MR. WILSON:

4

MR. LOWE:

5

Let me talk to Clay a

Of course.
Do we need to get up, talk

about it?

6

THE WITNESS:

7

(Whereupon, a short recess was

8

had, 10:50 a.m. - 11:06 a.m.)

9

MR. WILSON:

10

Yeah.

I think we might have to

have the last question read.

11

(Whereupon, the question was

12

read.)

13

MR. LOWE:

14

That's a yes or no

question.

15

MR. SMITH:

And for the record, the

16

yes or no aspect is important but not

17

determinative for me.

18

based on the content of the question alone.

19

This question we do not assert privilege on.

20

A.

There could be concerns

You have asked me if there was

21

concerns about my management of outside law

22

firms?

23

Q.

(BY MR. WILSON)

24

A.

You have not asked me if there were

25

Correct.

concerns about outside law firms?

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Q.

Correct.

2

A.

About my management of firms, no,

3

there would have been no --

4

(Whereupon, Sewell Exhibit 2 was

5

marked for identification, a copy of

6

which is attached hereto.)

7

Q.

Let me show you what I've marked as

8

Exhibit 2, which is a letter to you titled Re:

9

Ongoing performance deficiencies dated April 2,

10

2013 from David Carrington.

11
12

It's always good to give counsel
copies first.

13
14

Do you recall receiving a copy of a
letter mostly like this on April 2nd, 2013?

15

A.

I do.

16

Q.

Okay.

Let me ask you just a couple

17

of things.

If you see under item three and

18

under item six, there's the word redacted?

19

A.

20

see it.

21

Q.

22

what I take.

23

April 2nd have the words "redacted" under items

24

three and six?

25

A.

1-800-325-3376

Uh-huh (INDICATING AFFIRMATIVE).

I

I take it that the -- well, forget
Did the version that you got on

No.

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2

Q.

And where the word "redacted" now

appears, was there some additional text?

3

A.

Yes.

4

Q.

Did the version that you received on

5

April 2nd have the word "confidential" on the

6

bottom of each of the two pages?

7
8
9
10

A.

I don't think so.

I really don't

remember, but -Q.

Do you have a copy of that memorandum

with you?

11

A.

Not with me.

12

Q.

Does your counsel have one?

13

A.

Probably.

14

Q.

Would you take a look at the original

15

and just tell me if the word "confidential" was

16

on the bottom of page one or page two?

17

A.

It is not.

18

Q.

How did you receive this letter?

19

A.

It was in an envelope -- or excuse

20

me, in an envelope.

21

lunch that day, I had a late lunch, I don't

22

remember why, and got back in a little bit late,

23

later than normal, and it was in an envelope,

24

I think, in my chair in my office, just the

25

envelope.

1-800-325-3376

When I returned, I went to

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2

Q.

Sitting on your chair or on your desk

somewhere?

3

A.

Uh-huh (INDICATING AFFIRMATIVE).

4

Q.

Somewhere in your office?

5

A.

I think it was in my -- I think it

6
7

was in my chair.
Q.

Are you familiar with the -- you're

8

familiar with the letter, I guess?

9

it, you read it on April 2nd?

10
11
12

A.

You've seen

I read it, yes, when I returned from

lunch that afternoon.
Q.

And you had a discussion that

13

afternoon with Commissioner Carrington and

14

Commissioner Little-Brown about it?

15

A.

I had a discussion, yes.

I had a

16

meeting that I was asked to attend that

17

afternoon.

18

Q.

With the two of them?

19

A.

She was -- well, yes.

20

Q.

You were going to say she was

21
22
23

something?
A.

She was not there for the entire

meeting.

24

Q.

Oh.

25

A.

She was in and out, and I don't

1-800-325-3376

Was she there at the beginning?

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remember.

2

when she was -- but she was in and out.

3
4

Q.

I don't remember when she was in and

Was the purpose of the meeting to

discuss the contents of the letter?

5

A.

That was my understanding.

6

Q.

And, in fact, was that what happened?

7

A.

Yes.

8

Q.

Now, prior to receiving this letter,

9
10

had any of the commissioners raised with you any
of the issues contained in the letter?

11

A.

12

Not that I can recall.

13
14

Let me look at this a moment. (PAUSE)

Q.

Do you know what the subject of item

six was?

15

A.

Yes.

16

Q.

And do you think you can describe the

17

subject without revealing any legal advice

18

sought or given?

19

A.

I would need to read it.

I just

20

don't remember, but we have -- if someone has a

21

copy, an unredacted copy, I'll be happy to read

22

it.

23

MR. LOWE:

24

MR. SMITH:

25

You want him to do that?
Is that what your

question is?

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MR. WILSON:

Well, yes.

If there's a

2

copy available to him that his counsel has,

3

then, yes, I would like him to read it, and then

4

the question will be if he thinks he can

5

describe the subject matter without revealing

6

any legal advice.

7
8

MR. LOWE:

Are you formulating your

objection, David, or can he answer.

9
10

So that's still a yes or no.

MR. SMITH:
wait, please.

11

Yeah, I'm retrieving --

(PAUSE)

Let me see yours -- I can't put my

12

hands on the one in my jacket.

13

question is?

14

MR. WILSON:

Thank you.

The

Whether he thinks that

15

he can describe the subject matter of item six

16

without revealing any privileged information.

17

MR. SMITH:

Yeah.

I do think that --

18

not intentionally, I know there was a different

19

phrasing in the question.

20

before did say legal advice.

21

concern here would be over an answer that gets

22

to any aspects of whether there is legal advice

23

or work product there, but he -- he can answer

24

that question, that one question.

25

1-800-325-3376

MR. WILSON:

I think the question
And the privilege

All I've asked is one

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question, and it's a yes or no or I don't know.

2

MR. SMITH:

3

(Whereupon the question was

4

read.)

5

MR. SMITH:

6

answered.

Read the question again.

That question may be

Thank you.

7

A.

Yes.

8

Q.

(BY MR. WILSON)

9
10
11

So without revealing

any legal advice, how would you describe the
subject of item number six?
A.

12

May I see it back?
MR. SMITH:

Rowan, my concern, and

13

I'm happy to have some dialogue about what the

14

right way to deal with this is, but that's a

15

county document.

16

fall within the scope of the third request for

17

production.

18

by August the 30th we'll provide a privilege log

19

about the documents being produced, and so

20

the -- you know, having this witness testify

21

about the -- what would be equivalent to

22

privilege log information that we would provide

23

in order to give a sufficient indication to

24

indicate why we're objecting, to have the

25

witness do that now is inconsistent with the

1-800-325-3376

It's a document that would

The agreement that we have is that

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schedule we have established for articulating

2

these privilege objections to documents.

3

-- so until we reach the point in our document

4

production schedule where we're called on to

5

articulate privilege objections, I don't know of

6

anything that's more appropriate for me to do

7

than to assert privilege based on what I know so

8

far, and not have testimony where I've redacted

9

it based on privilege already.

And so

So with that --

10

with that -- I'll be glad to hear you if you

11

have a different idea about it.

12

MR. WILSON:

Well, it's certainly

13

news to me that if a non-party pursuant to a

14

subpoena produces a document you can object to

15

examination about it and instruct the witness

16

not to answer on the ground that you're going to

17

produce it later pursuant to the schedule.

18

I -- that's foreign to me.

19

witness produced this document --

20
21

MR. SMITH:

So

It seems to me the

I'm sorry, it's foreign

what?

22

MR. WILSON:

To me.

The witness

23

produced this document.

24

it on the schedule that we agreed to, but that

25

doesn't restrict in any way my ability -- the

1-800-325-3376

The county can produce

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fact that we have a schedule doesn't restrict my

2

ability to ask the witness about it.

3

If you're objecting on the ground

4

that you don't believe anyone or this witness

5

can describe the subject matter without

6

revealing attorney/client information, you can

7

instruct him on that ground, but that has

8

nothing to do with any schedule we've

9

established.

10

MR. SMITH:

Well, without addressing

11

the last point, that would be my concern that

12

the witness could do that.

13

not going to instruct the witness at any time

14

today because I don't have that authority, but I

15

can assert the privilege as a concern that we

16

have over addressing these redacted parts of

17

this memo and we do that.

18

MR. WILSON:

19

MR. LOWE:

20

And therefore -- I'm

All right.
Can you restate your

question for us, please?

21

MR. WILSON:

Well, let me have the

22

question back to make sure that Mr. Smith is

23

going to assert that the county has a privilege

24

that would interfere with this answer, and then

25

I'll pose a question after that.

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(Whereupon, the question was read.)

2

MR. SMITH:

3

I'm asserting the

privilege objection to it.

4

MR. LOWE:

The question specifically

5

says don't reveal any privilege.

6

MR. WILSON:

It does, and the witness

7

has said he believes that he can, he's a pretty

8

experienced attorney, describe the subject

9

matter without revealing any privileged

10

information and that's what the Federal Rules

11

require one to do, but if the county's insisting

12

that -- I understand, Mr. Lowe, that you need to

13

protect your client and if the county is making

14

an objection, however unreasonable, the prudent

15

thing to do is to instruct your witness not to

16

answer.

17

MR. LOWE:

Thank you.

We'll have to

18

be prudent and direct him not to answer then,

19

although I also disagree with the validity of

20

the objection.

21

Q.

(BY MR. WILSON)

Do you recall

22

whether item six has anything to do with the

23

county bankruptcy?

24

A.

I recall that.

25

Q.

And does it?

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A.

No.

2

Q.

Do you recall whether item six has

3

anything to do with the resolution of

4

organization?

5

A.

I -- no.

6

Q.

You don't recall whether it does or

7

you do recall and it doesn't have anything to do

8

with it?

9

A.

The latter.

10

Q.

Do you recall whether item six

11

concerns an alleged performance deficiency on

12

your part?

13

A.

I recall.

14

Q.

And does it?

15

A.

No.

16

Q.

Do you recall whether item six,

In my judgment, no.

17

whether you discussed item six with

18

Commissioners Carrington and Little-Brown during

19

the meeting you had on April 2nd?

20

A.

I do recall that I did.

21

Q.

Do you recall whether Commissioner

22

Carrington or Commissioner Little-Brown

23

indicated that they were mistaken, or

24

Commissioner Carrington was mistaken about

25

whatever he wrote concerning item number six.

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2

MR. SMITH:

I'm sorry, I need to hear

that again.

3

(Whereupon the question was

4

read.)

5

MR. SMITH:

6

I'm going to

have to confer for a second.

7
8

I'm sorry.

MR. WILSON:

We don't even know what

the subject of item six is.

9

(Whereupon, an off-the-record

10

discussion was had.)

11

MR. SMITH:

Well, the question

12

about -- of whether the commissioners said they

13

were mistaken in item six where item six is

14

redacted entirely, we object to that as invading

15

the privilege.

16

where we have redacted based on privilege

17

paragraph six, we think that this question

18

requires assertion of privilege.

19

I don't know the answer, but

MR. LOWE:

Just so I'm clear, you're

20

saying any answer he may give you regarding

21

questions about item number six would

22

necessarily involve privileged information and

23

therefore you object, so therefore I should

24

direct him not to answer?

25

you're saying.

1-800-325-3376

That sounds like what

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MR. SMITH:

Well, I mean, I have to

2

leave directions to the witness to you

3

entirely.

4

MR. LOWE:

Right, but I want to make

5

sure you're saying any answer he gives with

6

regard to questions to number six you feel would

7

be -- would reveal privilege?

8
9

MR. SMITH:

No, I have already

allowed a couple of questions about six to be

10

answered, and so I'm trying to go one question

11

at a time and be as careful as I know how to

12

be.

13

asserting the privilege where we should, then I

14

know we'll hear that there's been a waiver and

15

-- at least assume that would be a part of what

16

course these issues run.

17

doing the best I know how to be selective and

18

exercise the best judgment I'm capable of.

19

that one question, yes, we'll assert the

20

privilege as to that potential response.

You know, the risk is on us if we aren't

21

MR. WILSON:

And so on the fly I'm

So

So to be clear, you're

22

going to assert that the county has a privilege

23

that prevents me from knowing, without knowing

24

what item six was, whether there was any

25

retraction during subsequent discussion about

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item six, even though I don't know what it is?

2

MR. SMITH:

Well, I have to

3

acknowledge that that's an interesting question

4

and one that I can't say I'm not perplexed a

5

little by, but I can envision scenarios where

6

asking questions around and about it where the

7

essence of it, the heart of it is privileged

8

material, invades that -- you know, inevitably

9

provides that information.

10

I know to do on that one question.

11
12

MR. WILSON:

Okay.

MR. LOWE:

14

MR. WILSON:

15

MR. LOWE:

My hands are tied.
Yeah.

Understood.

I instruct him not to

answer.

17
18

So I assume there

is then an instruction?

13

16

So -- so that's what

MR. WILSON:
Q.

Understood.

(BY MR. WILSON)

When you received

19

the memorandum, April 2 memorandum, did anyone

20

tell you that it was -- contained

21

attorney/client privileged information?

22

A.

No.

23

Q.

Did anyone tell you that it contained

24
25

attorney work product information?
A.

1-800-325-3376

No.

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Q.

Did you have an understanding that

2

the April 2nd memorandum prepared by -- well,

3

sent by Mr. Carrington, authored by

4

Mr. Carrington, was prepared in anticipation of

5

litigation?

6

A.

No.

7

Q.

During the conversation you had with

8

Commissioner Carrington and Commissioner

9

Little-Brown, did either of them tell you that

10

information in the April 2nd memorandum was

11

attorney/client privileged?

12

MR. SMITH:

Objection.

To the extent

13

that these questions -- I'm trying not to

14

intrude, I assure you, but where these questions

15

are did your client, Mr. Sewell's client, talk

16

to him about the privilege in a communication,

17

then -- which I acknowledge would be, you know,

18

often it's the lawyer who brings up the

19

privilege more than the client, but it could be

20

either way, that the questions about whether

21

they raised or asserted or invoked the privilege

22

for these conversations I think would be

23

privileged.

24
25

MR. WILSON:

All right.

So I take it

your -- I understand your objection is one of

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privilege.

2
3

MR. SMITH:

And I mean it to refer

back to these last three or four questions.

4

MR. WILSON:

So that you don't want

5

me -- well, you believe I'm not entitled to

6

inquire as to whether anyone -- well,

7

Mr. Carrington or Mrs. Little-Brown said that

8

the memorandum was privileged?

9

MR. SMITH:

10

We want to be careful.

We'll confer about it.

11

MR. WILSON:

12

(Whereupon, a short recess was

13

had, 11:29 a.m. - 11:41 a.m.)

14

MR. SMITH:

15

Okay.

Could we have the

question read back?

16

(Whereupon, the question was read.)

17

MR. SMITH:

Object on privileged

18

discussions between the attorney and the client

19

about the privilege.

20

MR. WILSON:

21

MR. LOWE:

Okay.
Although that's not the

22

question that was asked, I'll direct you not to

23

answer out of an abundance of caution.

24
25

Q.

(BY MR. WILSON)

Mr. Sewell, did

anyone tell you that the April 2nd letter, that

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you were expected to keep it confidential?

2

A.

No.

3

Q.

When you went to the committee

4

hearing on April 12, did you feel free to

5

discuss its contents if you so chose?

6

A.

Sure.

7

Q.

Up till yesterday, did you have any

8

reason to believe that the April 2nd memorandum

9

from Mr. Carrington was something that you

10

couldn't tell other people about?

11
12

MR. SMITH:

legal conclusion from the witness.

13
14

MR. WILSON:

MR. SMITH:

16

MR. LOWE:

18

I think that's just a

form objection.

15

17

Objection, calls for a

Yeah, it is.
It sounds like it.

It

wasn't a privilege objection, so you can answer.
A.

Would you repeat it?

19

MR. LOWE:

I'm sorry?

20

THE WITNESS:

21

(Whereupon, the question was read.)

22

MR. LOWE:

Repeat it.

You can answer that.

23

A.

No.

24

Q.

(BY MR. WILSON)

25

when you read the --

first read the April 2nd, 2013 memorandum, did

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you understand that the -- Mr. Carrington was

2

seeking legal advice from you?

3

A.

I did not understand that.

4

Q.

When you met with Mr. Carrington and

5

Mrs. Little-Brown that afternoon, April 2nd, did

6

you understand that they were seeking legal

7

advice from you in the course of your

8

discussion?

9

MR. SMITH:

Objection.

And the

10

question, by seeking legal advice, do you mean

11

to include covering privileged matters?

12
13
14

MR. WILSON:

No, I think I've asked

something different.
Q.

(BY MR. WILSON)

Did you understand

15

that the purpose of them having a conversation

16

with you was to seek legal advice?

17

A.

18

I'm -- that's a yes or no answer?
MR. SMITH:

I just have to note on

19

the record that if the conversation involved

20

matters that are privileged, then the privilege

21

objection is still properly asserted whether the

22

purpose was to seek legal advice or not if there

23

is a privileged matter being -- that is the

24

subject.

25

1-800-325-3376

MR. WILSON:

I think you're

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addressing a question I haven't asked.

2

MR. SMITH:

Well, I'm -- you know,

3

the deposition is something that I would like to

4

have addressed more in advance.

5

I've been working on your document production,

6

I'm doing the best that I'm capable of of

7

hearing questions for the first time and making

8

judgments about privilege.

9

obstruct.

I've got --

I'm not trying to

I -- I would like to see this

10

finished as well, but I've got the

11

responsibility to assert the privilege where it

12

may apply because I would be irresponsible if I

13

didn't.

14

MR. WILSON:

Okay.

But I still don't

15

understand whether as to this question you were

16

doing so or not.

17

MR. SMITH:

18

MR. WILSON:

Well -You just need to say the

19

word privilege, and then we know what Mr. Lowe

20

will do, or don't say it and then we know what

21

he'll do.

22

MR. SMITH:

Well, we can do it that

23

way.

I've been trying to articulate some

24

grounds because it seemed more appropriate to

25

allow you to fashion a different question, but,

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no, I can just start saying privilege.

2

MR. WILSON:

No, that isn't exactly

3

my point.

4

so far with regard to this question, I don't

5

actually know which -- what you're saying.

6
7

It's that whatever it is you've said

MR. SMITH:

I'm objecting -- I'm

sorry.

8

MR. WILSON:

9

MR. SMITH:

Go ahead.
No, no.

Sorry.

What I'm doing

10

my best to do is object by asserting the

11

privilege where the phrase "seeking legal

12

advice" has potential ambiguity and where other

13

elements of privilege, like work product or

14

references to privileged communications that are

15

provided in a document between the client and

16

the lawyer may be protected.

17

I haven't heard the questions before, I'm

18

hearing them now and I'm doing my best to --

19

MR. WILSON:

20

MR. SMITH:

21

MR. WILSON:

22
23

And so, you know,

That's what lawyers do.
I know.
All right.

Let me try a

different question.
Q.

(BY MR. WILSON)

What did you

24

understand was the purpose of your meeting with

25

Mr. Carrington and Mrs. Little-Brown?

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2

MR. SMITH:

I'm sorry, what was the

purpose of what?

3

MR. WILSON:

4

was the purpose of meeting them.

5

MR. SMITH:

6

MR. WILSON:

7

MR. SMITH:

8
9
10

A.

What did he understand

Meeting?
Yeah.
No objection.

To discuss the items in the April 2nd

letter from Carrington to me.
Q.

(BY MR. WILSON)

Did you understand

11

that there was any other purpose going into the

12

meeting?

13

A.

No.

14

Q.

Was there discussion about anything

15

other than the items in the memo during the

16

course of your conversation with Commissioners

17

Carrington and Little-Brown?

18

A.

Probably.

19

Q.

Was there any discussion with them

20

that concerned issues other than alleged

21

performance deficiencies?

22

A.

Yes.

23

Q.

Were those other issues not mentioned

24
25

in the April 2nd memo?
A.

1-800-325-3376

They were not.

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2

Q.

issues you discussed?

3
4

MR. SMITH:

7

Objection to the extent

that response provides privileged information.

5
6

Can you describe generally the other

MR. LOWE:

You'll have to use your

judgment on that one.
A.

I can describe them.

And I don't --

8

they don't -- I don't recall that any of the

9

other topics had anything to do with any of the

10

county's litigation or legal advice or legal

11

strategy.

12

about various things and unrelated to my job

13

performance, unrelated to this memo and

14

unrelated to the county's legal issues.

15
16

Q.

It was more a personal discussion

(BY MR. WILSON)

That's fine.

We can

leave it at that.

17

During your discussion with

18

Commissioners Little-Brown and Carrington, did

19

either of them tell you that you should keep

20

confidential what you had discussed?

21

A.

That's a yes or no question?

22

Q.

That's a yes or no.

23

MR. SMITH:

No objection.

24

A.

No.

25

Q.

BY MR. WILSON)

1-800-325-3376

Now, after April 2nd,

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were you at some point placed on administrative

2

leave?

3

A.

Yes.

4

Q.

Do you recall when that happened?

5

A.

The morning of April the 8th.

6

Q.

And did you receive a written

7

notification?

8

A.

9
10

MR. WILSON:

MR. ADELSTEIN:

MR. WILSON:

It's a single page.

Let

me identify it, Jay.

15

MR. ADELSTEIN:

16

MR. WILSON:

17

How many pages is

that exhibit?

13
14

I'm going to mark as

Sewell Exhibit 3 --

11
12

I did.

I think I have it.

Well, that's not going

to help me.

18

It's a single-page letter from David

19

Carrington to Jeff Sewell dated April 8, 2013.

20

(Whereupon, Sewell Exhibit 3 was

21

marked for identification, a copy of

22

which is attached hereto.)

23

Q.

(BY MR. WILSON)

Let me show you

24

what's been marked as Exhibit 3.

25

recognize that document?

1-800-325-3376

And do you

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A.

I do.

2

Q.

What is it?

3

A.

It is a letter or memo -- letter, I

4

guess, from David Carrington to me dated April

5

the 8th, 2013, subject, administrative leave

6

with pay.

7

Q.

When did you receive this?

8

A.

Approximately probably 8:45 that

9

morning.

10

Q.

Under what circumstance?

11

A.

As I was stepping out of my vehicle

12

in the secure parking area under the county

13

courthouse I was met by the county's HR

14

director, human resources director, Demetrius

15

Taylor, and an armed security guard, and she

16

handed me the -- this letter.

17

Q.

She, Ms. Taylor?

18

A.

Yes.

19

Q.

Do you know who the armed security

20

guard was?

21

A.

22

county.

23

Q.

24
25

I do.

Long-term employee of the

And he's employed as a security

guard?
A.

1-800-325-3376

I think he still is, I --

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Q.

Well, he was at the time?

2

A.

He was at the time, he was in uniform

3

with a gun.

4
5

Q.

Do you think that was an appropriate

way to put you on administrative leave?

6

A.

No.

7

Q.

Do you pose any security threat to

8

the county?

9

A.

I don't think so.

10

Q.

And at the time you didn't think you

12

A.

No.

13

Q.

Were you taken aback?

14

A.

Yes.

15

Q.

If you look at Exhibit 3, it starts

11

did?

16

out, in my capacity as your appointing authority

17

I'm placing you on administrative leave with pay

18

effective immediately until further notice.

19
20
21
22
23

Was Commissioner Carrington your
appointing authority?
A.

Depends on what source of law you

look at.
Q.

If you look at the resolution of

24

organization dated November 10th, 2010, is

25

Commissioner Carrington your appointing

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2

authority?
A.

Under that document, that document

3

designated him, I believe, and I would need to

4

refresh myself on that, because I think that

5

document in one of its forms designated me as

6

appointing authority.

7

look at that, but I'm not certain under Alabama

8

law, a single commissioner would be an

9

appointing authority over the county attorney,

10
11

I need to go back and

despite what a resolution might say.
Q.

Do you recall whether the resolution

12

of organization dated November 10th, 2010 says

13

that the county attorney shall report to the

14

county commission as a whole?

15
16
17

A.

I do recall that.

That would be

consistent with Alabama law.
Q.

When you were placed on

18

administrative leave on April the 8th, did you

19

have any question in your own mind about the

20

validity of Commissioner Carrington's action?

21

A.

I did.

22

Q.

And did you express that to the

23

commission during the committee meeting on April

24

12th, 2013?

25

A.

1-800-325-3376

Yes.

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Q.

Did Ms. Taylor, when she gave you the

2

letter that's been marked as Exhibit 3, tell you

3

that it was confidential?

4

A.

I do not believe so, no.

5

Q.

And when you received it, did you

6

believe you were free to disclose it as you saw

7

fit?

8

A.

Yes.

9

Q.

During the -- during your discussion

10

with Commissioners Carrington and Little-Brown

11

on April 2nd, do you recall there being any

12

discussion about the bankruptcy?

13

A.

Indirectly, yes.

Briefly.

14

Q.

Do you recall whether that discussion

15

concerned any suggestion that you had not

16

performed your duties in an acceptable manner?

17

A.

18

No.
MR. SMITH:

Objection.

Assert

19

privilege on any discussion between you and your

20

client about the bankruptcy proceedings.

21

MR. WILSON:

22

MR. LOWE:

23

He had already answered,

so if he wants to move to strike it later --

24
25

All right.

MR. SMITH:

He had answered?

I didn't hear what he said.

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MR. LOWE:

2

THE WITNESS:

3

Yes.

actually.

4

MR. WILSON:

5

MR. LOWE:

6

better than he can.

7

I thought I said no,

Q.

He said no.
Yeah, I can't hear any

(BY MR. WILSON)

When you look back

8

at Exhibit 3, the April 8th letter, were you

9

expecting it or were you expecting to be placed

10

on administrative leave with pay when you

11

arrived at work?

12

A.

Absolutely not.

13

Q.

When you received and read the

14

letter, did you have any understanding of why

15

you were being placed on administrative leave

16

with pay?

17

A.

No.

18

Q.

When you received and read the

19

letter, did you have any understanding that it

20

related to the bankruptcy in any way?

21

A.

No.

22

Q.

At some point, did you come to

23

understand that Commissioner Carrington believed

24

that the basis for placing you on administrative

25

leave with pay was related to the bankruptcy?

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A.

No.

2

Q.

Did Commissioner Carrington ever tell

3

you why you had been placed on administrative

4

leave with pay?

5

A.

No.

6

Q.

Did any of the commissioners ever

7

tell you why you had been placed on

8

administrative leave with pay?

9

A.

No.

10

Q.

Did any of them ever tell you why you

11

had been met with an armed security guard?

12

A.

No.

13

Q.

Did Mr. Taylor have any explanation

14

for the basis of placing you on administrative

15

leave with pay?

16

A.

No.

17

Q.

To this day, do you have any

18

understanding of why you were placed on

19

administrative leave with pay?

20

A.

No.

21

Q.

At the April 12th, 2013 committee --

22

A.

Let me -- let me correct my answer.

23

Q.

All right.

24

A.

I don't have an understanding, I have

25

a theory, but I don't have an understanding.

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Q.

2

theory.

Well, let me ask you for your

3

MR. SMITH:

4

MR. LOWE:

His theory?
If you think it involves

5

revealing privileged information you shouldn't

6

do that, but --

7

MR. SMITH:

The question was

8

incomplete.

You were asking for his theory on

9

why he was placed on administrative --

10

administrative leave with pay?

11

MR. WILSON:

12

MR. SMITH:

Correct.
And in itself the

13

question is one thing if the answer involves

14

privileged information.

15

MR. LOWE:

We can only listen.

And I trust that if he

16

unintentionally reveals something you will alert

17

us to that and move to strike or whatever.

18

my understanding that this deposition is subject

19

to a confidentiality agreement anyway, so

20

nothing should leave this room.

21

answer that question without knowingly revealing

22

some privileged -- attorney/client privileged

23

information or work product, or anything of that

24

nature, then you can answer it.

25

A.

1-800-325-3376

All right.

It's

So if you can

You had originally asked

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me if I had an understanding and I -- no one has

2

expressed to me why I was placed on leave with

3

pay, but the theory that I have is fairly

4

obvious that it was that placing me on leave

5

with pay was a -- was a reaction to the April

6

2nd memo.

7

Q.

(BY MR. WILSON)

Do you recall at the

8

April 12, 2013 county commission administrative

9

services committee meeting that you attended,

10

Commissioner Carrington stated that you were

11

placed on administrative leave with pay because

12

a majority of the commissioners felt he had not

13

acted in the best interests of his client, the

14

county, in bankruptcy settlement negotiations

15

with our creditors?

16

A.

I don't -- that was a multi-hour

17

meeting.

I don't recall those exact words.

18

not saying he didn't say that, I just don't

19

recall it.

I'm

20

Q.

21

or not?

22

A.

Not really.

23

Q.

Not really?

24

A.

I'm not saying that it wasn't said, I

25

Do you recall anything to that effect

just don't remember.

1-800-325-3376

That was a long meeting.

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Q.

Right, right.

Prior to the April

2

12th, 2013 meeting, had any of the commissioners

3

told you that they felt you had not acted in the

4

best interests of the county in the bankruptcy

5

settlement negotiations?

6

A.

No.

7

Q.

Do you recall Commissioner Carrington

8

saying at that April 12th meeting that on

9

December 11th, 2012, during the first afternoon

10

of an intense three-day negotiating session with

11

a significant number of our creditors in New

12

York City, Mr. Sewell instructed our outside

13

counsel to stop negotiations, even though

14

Commissioner Stephens and I were present and

15

actively involved and some progress was being

16

made?

17

A.

18

effect.

19

Q.

I recall him saying words to that

Let me see if we can play you

20

something again from the audio recording of that

21

committee meeting, see if you can identify the

22

speaker.

23

(PLAYING RECORDING)

24

On December the 11th, 2012, during

25

the first afternoon of an intense three-day

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negotiation session with a significant number of

2

our creditors in New York City, Mr. Sewell

3

instructed our outside counsel to stop

4

negotiations, even though Commissioner Stephens

5

and I were present and actively involved and

6

some progress was being made.

7

outside counsel convinced Mr. Sewell later that

8

evening that his instructions were not in the

9

best interests of the county and the

10

Fortunately our

negotiations proceeded for the next few days.

11

(RECORDING STOPPED.)

12

Can you identify that speaker?

13

A.

That's David Carrington.

14

Q.

Now, when representatives of the

15

county traveled to New York City in connection

16

with the bankruptcy, did they fly in private or

17

chartered planes or in commercial planes?

18

A.

I can only answer that with my own

19

experience, and my own experience would be in a

20

commercial airliner.

I don't know how -- you

21

know, I don't know.

I have an assumption they

22

traveled in commercial airliners, but I don't --

23

I don't know that.

24
25

Q.

Okay.

Do you know in late 2012, how

many nonstop commercial flights there are from

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Birmingham to New York City?

2

A.

I don't have any judgment of that.

3

Q.

What time of day they leave, when

4

they arrive?

5

A.

No, I don't know.

6

Q.

Okay.

I just don't know.

Now, if I tell you that

7

Commissioner Stephens, on December 11th, 2012,

8

was testifying in front of Judge Smith, do you

9

know of any way he could get to New York City on

10
11
12
13

a commercial airline by that afternoon?
A.

He was not in New York City.

No,

there's no way.
Q.

So you think Mr. Carrington is

14

mistaken when he says that on December 11th

15

Commissioner Stephens and he were in New York

16

City negotiating about the bankruptcy?

17

A.

Yes.

18

Q.

Do you remember an incident at all

19

like the one that Mr. Carrington described that

20

you instructed cessation of negotiations?

21

A.

I would not characterize my

22

instruction as a cessation of negotiations.

23

I have memories of -- of giving instructions

24

to the outside counsel for sure.

25

Q.

1-800-325-3376

While commissioners were present

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negotiating?

2

A.

Sure.

Oh, absolutely.

In some of

3

those negotiations I was present and there would

4

be times that I would, you know, instruct or ask

5

or -- certainly.

6

Q.

And you viewed that as part of your

8

A.

Absolutely.

9

Q.

And you think you had obligations

7

job?

10

under the Rules of Professional Conduct to do

11

so?

12

A.

Yes.

13

Q.

And you were using your best judgment

14
15

when you did so?
A.

16
17
18

Yes.
MR. SMITH:

Q.

Objection to leading.

(BY MR. WILSON)

Were you using your

best judgment when doing so?

19

A.

I was trying to.

20

Q.

How much time elapsed between the

21

time you sent the April 2 memo that you and

22

Mr. Lawson and lawyers from Maynard Cooper

23

authored, sent it to the commission and the time

24

when you received the performance deficiencies

25

from Mr. Carrington?

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2

MR. SMITH:

Objection to the

foundation of the question.

3

A.

Six hours.

4

Q.

(BY MR. WILSON)

You may answer.

How was the -- how

5

was the April 2nd memo that you co-authored

6

transmitted to the commission?

7

A.

The same way all other memos that I

8

send to the commission, of which there are many,

9

would be delivered by my former secretary, Hope

10

Cockrell.

She would have taken it around in an

11

envelope and put it in each commissioner's

12

office, or probably in their hands, is what they

13

preferred.

14

Q.

So it was received in paper form?

15

A.

Yes, and in their hand.

16

Q.

And I think you testified that the

17

performance deficiencies memo that you received

18

was sitting on your desk or chair when you

19

returned from lunch?

20
21
22

A.

It was about two o'clock that

afternoon.
Q.

It was a late lunch.
Now, do you recall telling the

23

commissioners at the committee hearing on April

24

12th that at the end of your meeting with

25

Commissioner Carrington and Commissioner

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Little-Brown, Commissioner Carrington said he

2

wanted to think about your request that he

3

withdraw the memorandum he had written?

4
5

A.

He wanted to -- he wanted to -- well,

I'll pause for an objection here.

6

MR. SMITH:

I'm sorry.

The question

7

was does he recall what Commissioner Carrington

8

said in the open hearing?

9

MR. WILSON:

10

MR. SMITH:

11

MR. WILSON:

No.
No?
No.

I'm not asking

12

about anything Commissioner Carrington said

13

directly.

14

Q.

(BY MR. WILSON)

Do you recall that

15

at the open hearing you said that at the

16

conclusion of the meeting on April 2nd with

17

Commissioners Carrington and Little-Brown when

18

you asked Commissioner Carrington to withdraw

19

the April 2nd memorandum that he had written

20

about your performance deficiencies, he said he

21

wanted to sleep on it?

22
23
24
25

A.

I do recall words to that effect,

Q.

And did that in fact happen?

yes.
Did

Mr. Carrington at the end of the meeting on the

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2nd of April say he wanted to sleep on your

2

request to withdraw the performance deficiencies

3

memo?

4
5
6
7
8

MR. LOWE:
A.

He did.

You can answer that.
It was not -- it was not

just my request.
Q.

(BY MR. WILSON)

It was who else's

request?

9

A.

The other person in the room.

10

Q.

Commissioner Little-Brown?

11

A.

Yes.

12

Q.

You also -- do you recall telling the

13

committee that you had prepared a written

14

response?

15

A.

I think I recall that.

16

Q.

Do you still have a copy of the

17
18
19
20
21

written response?
A.

That I don't know.

I don't have it

with me.
Q.

Did you ever share the written

response with anyone?

22

A.

I don't think so.

23

Q.

When you made remarks to the

24

committee, were you reading in part from the

25

written response?

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A.

No, I was not.

The written -- I did

2

draft a written response but I was never able to

3

deliver it.

4

That was my -- I had said I would wait till

5

April the 8th, but I never got in the building

6

that day.

7
8

Q.

I was waiting until April the 8th.

Where did you prepare the written

response?

9

A.

On a laptop.

10

Q.

In your office?

11

A.

No.

12

office.

13

don't -- I really don't remember.

14

you know, if I did it at my office I'm sure that

15

it can be retrieved from the county.

16

don't remember, but I probably would have done

17

that at home.

18

Q.

I don't have a laptop in my

I think I prepared it at home.

I

I may have --

I really

At the April 12th, 2013 committee

19

meeting, do you recall Commissioner Bowman

20

saying words to the effect of every question I

21

have ever had from Mr. Sewell, he was

22

forthright, frank and honest with me in

23

everything he told me.

24

occasion where he told me something misleading

25

or wrong.

1-800-325-3376

I have never had an

I trust him in his judgment.

He has

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had 25 years' worth of unblemished service to

2

this governmental body?

3

A.

I recall words to that effect, yes.

4

Q.

Now, during that meeting on April

5

12th, 2013, what action did the administrative

6

services committee take?

7

A.

I believe that there was a vote

8

taken, a committee vote taken, on a resolution

9

that I don't recall if there was a written

10

resolution or a verbal resolution, to terminate

11

my employment.

12

four-to-one vote to do so.

I think the vote was a

13

Q.

And do you recall who the one was?

14

A.

Bowman.

15

Q.

At some point were you given the

16

chance to retire instead of being terminated?

17
18

A.
that way.

19
20
21

I was -- I wouldn't characterize it

Q.

Tell me how you would characterize

A.

Well, it was an involuntary

it.

22

retirement, it was no choice.

23

any choice at all.

24

separated, there was no -- it's like a choice

25

between, you know, bullet in the head or knife

1-800-325-3376

I was not given

It was I was going to be

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2
3

in the throat.
Q.

I shouldn't ask which one you picked,

I guess.

4

If you had -- was there something to

5

which you agreed that ended up avoiding a full

6

commission vote?

7

A.

That day there was no written

8

agreement.

I think that day the -- well, I

9

think it was determined, let's just say, that

10

there needed to be a written agreement which

11

would take some time to prepare, couldn't be

12

done that quickly.

13
14

Q.

Ultimately a written agreement was

prepared?

15

A.

Yes.

16

Q.

And that is one of the three

17

documents you produced?

18

A.

Yes.

19

Q.

And did anyone tell you that you were

20

to keep that written agreement confidential?

21

A.

No.

22

Q.

Is there, to your knowledge, a

23

confidentiality provision in it?

24

A.

There is not.

25

Q.

Do you feel free to share it as you

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2

see fit?
A.

3

Sure.
MR. SMITH:

I should say that to the

4

extent the agreement contains a commitment on

5

privilege, privilege is a kind of

6

confidentiality, and so I would note that for

7

the record.

8
9

Q.

(BY MR. WILSON)

be clear.

All right.

Let me

I was asking about whether you, as to

10

the document itself, you believe that document

11

is something that you must maintain in

12

confidence.

13

A.

I believe it would be unlawful for me

14

to try to maintain it in confidence.

15

public record.

16

Q.

It's

Now, when you took over as county

17

attorney, were you aware that there was a

18

consent decree in place resulting in the U.S. V.

19

Jefferson County litigation?

20

A.

Yes.

21

Q.

That the county was a party to?

22

A.

Yes.

23

Q.

And you were aware there was -- this

24

was in late 2008, that there was an impending

25

trial on a motion for contempt?

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A.

I don't recall.

I don't remember

2

when the contempt proceedings got underway, when

3

the first motion, I just don't have any memory

4

of that, or that I wasn't aware, but I certainly

5

was aware of the consent decree.

6

Q.

Do you remember that a trial had

7

started and then was suspended because of Judge

8

Smith's health for several years?

9

A.

I do, I just don't remember what

10

year.

11

remembrance of what came first, which year it

12

started.

13

I just don't have any temporal -- not

Q.

Sure.

By the time the trial resumed

14

in 2012, were you more familiar with the issues

15

involved than you had been immediately upon

16

becoming county attorney?

17

A.

Yes.

18

Q.

When you -- say in 2012, were you

19

committed to bringing the county into compliance

20

with the consent decree?

21

A.

Yes.

22

Q.

Did you believe it was your

23

obligation to try to bring the county in

24

compliance with the consent decree?

25

A.

1-800-325-3376

Yes.

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2

Q.

You understood the consent decree was

an order of the court?

3

A.

Yes.

4

Q.

Do you believe you have a

5

professional obligation to give advice to your

6

client, even if it is advice that your client

7

might not want to hear?

8

A.

Yes.

9

Q.

Do you think you have any special

10

obligations in view of the fact that your client

11

when you were county attorney was an

12

organization rather than an individual?

13

A.

Yes.

14

Q.

And do the Alabama Rules of

15

Professional Conduct address that?

16

A.

They do.

17

Q.

And did you raise that with the

18

administrative services committee on the 12th of

19

April, 2013?

20

A.

I did.

21

Q.

Did you quote from Professional Rule

22

of Conduct 1.13?

23

A.

I believe so.

24

Q.

And the advisory committee?

25

A.

I believe I did.

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Q.

Do you remember telling them

2

something to the effect of that the rule --

3

rules comment reads, in a matter involving the

4

conduct of government officials a government

5

lawyer may have the authority to question such

6

conduct more extensively than that of a lawyer

7

for a private organization in a similar

8

circumstance?

9

A.

Yes.

10

Q.

And do you recall telling the county

11

commissioners on April 12th, 2013 that it was

12

your job to notify you if I think any of you are

13

drifting away from following the law or if a

14

county document needs to be changed, and I do

15

believe it needs to be changed?

16

A.

I recall that.

17

Q.

What document were you talking about

18

when you said I do believe it needs to be

19

changed?

20
21
22

A.

The document that was changed last

week, the resolution of organization.
Q.

When you say it was changed last

23

week, your understanding is the county adopted a

24

new resolution of organization?

25

A.

1-800-325-3376

Yeah.

I have not read it, but I read

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a newspaper article that it had occurred last

2

week -- I believe it was last week.

3
4

Q.

Is that new resolution of

organization a public document?

5

A.

Yes.

6

Q.

So any citizen could acquire it?

7

A.

Yes.

8

Q.

Could request it and obtain it?

9

A.

Yes.

10

Q.

You haven't read it?

11

A.

I have not.

12

Q.

Now, in your April 2nd memorandum you

13

were proposing a change to the resolution of

14

organization; is that correct?

15

MR. LOWE:

16

Do we have an objection to

that?

17

MR. SMITH:

Yeah.

Are you about to

18

be on this for a minute, resolution, that

19

process?

20

MR. WILSON:

21

MR. SMITH:

I don't know.
All right.

Without a

22

clear answer, then, I'd like to talk, I'd like

23

to confer for a minute about --

24

MR. WILSON:

25

(Whereupon, a short recess was

1-800-325-3376

Sure.

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had, 12:18 p.m. - 12:32 p.m.)

2

MR. SMITH:

3

Can you -- was there a

question that was at the very end?

4

(Whereupon the question was

5

read.)

6

MR. SMITH:

The beginning of that was

7

and in your April 2nd memorandum you were

8

proposing?

9

(Whereupon, the question was read.)

10
11

MR. SMITH:
privilege.

12
13

We object and assert

MR. LOWE:

Then I must direct him not

to answer.

14

MR. WILSON:

15

MR. SMITH:

Okay.
This is the April 2nd

16

memo that we've been talking about.

17

more than one April 2nd memo; right?

18
19

MR. WILSON:

MR. SMITH:

MR. WILSON:

That's the one we're

talking about.

24
25

Yes, and that's the

one --

22
23

There's only one that he

authored.

20
21

There is

MR. SMITH:
Q.

1-800-325-3376

All right.

(BY MR. WILSON)

So --

Do you recall at the

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April 12 committee meeting telling the

2

commissioners, I can't violate Alabama law

3

because one commissioner tells me who I can't

4

talk to and we can't have a situation where one

5

commissioner is trying to control information to

6

the four of you and control your access to the

7

county's lawyers?

8

A.

Yes, I recall that.

9

Q.

Who is the one commissioner you were

10

talking about?

11

A.

Carrington.

12

Q.

Did you also tell the commissioners

13

that you believe that in 1997 when the

14

commission was voting on the sewer debt, that

15

you believed that several of them didn't know

16

what they were voting on?

17

A.

Yes.

18

Q.

And do you recall telling them at the

19

April 12th meeting that you believed that when

20

the commissioners were voting in 2002, 2003 on

21

the refinancing of the sewer debt, that several

22

of them didn't know what they were voting on?

23

A.

Yes.

24

Q.

And particular commissioners that you

25

called out by name were ones who had ended up

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convicted of felonies?

2

A.

Some of them.

3

Q.

And did you say at the April 12th,

4

2013 meeting with reference to the memo that you

5

wrote on April 2nd that you were determined you

6

were not going to see that mistake made again?

7

A.

I believe that I said that.

8

Q.

Do you think there is any connection

9

between the Martin-Bryant plaintiffs' noticing

10

of your deposition and the recent amendment to

11

the resolution of organization?

12

MR. LOWE:

Does that ask him to

13

speculate as to what your intentions were in

14

noticing his deposition?

15

MR. WILSON:

16

MR. LOWE:

17

I'm sorry.

What --

I'm not real clear on

that.

18
19

No.

MR. WILSON:
Q.

Sure.

(BY MR. WILSON)

Do you have any --

20

do you have any view as to whether the fact of

21

the receipt of notice for your deposition

22

influenced the county in its decision to adopt a

23

new resolution of organization?

24

MR. SMITH:

25

speculation.

1-800-325-3376

Objection, calls for

And if it involves privilege, then

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I have an objection, but I don't know.

2
3

MR. WILSON:

Well, I think the notice

came after his termination.

4

MR. LOWE:

Yeah, it is asking him to

5

speculate, but he can speculate.

6

MR. WILSON:

7

objection, so --

8
9

Well, it's a form

MR. LOWE:

I mean, it's a form

objection, you're correct.

10

A.

I have such a speculation, yes.

11

Q.

(BY MR. WILSON)

12

to you?

13

A.

When did that occur

When I learned of the effort to go

14

and -- to amend the resolution of organization,

15

I think I heard of it in the media, yeah, that

16

occurred to me.

17

Q.

Sometime in the last couple of weeks?

18

A.

Yeah.

19

Q.

Now, thinking back over your

20

testimony today, is there anything as to which

21

you've testified that you would not like to have

22

in the public record?

23
24

A.

Let me talk to Clay about that for a

moment if I may.

25

1-800-325-3376

MR. WILSON:

Of course.

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THE WITNESS:

Let me, before we go,

2

in the public record, you mean in the federal

3

court trial --

4
5

MR. WILSON:

Yeah, unfiled, unsealed

in federal court.

6

THE WITNESS:

7

MR. LOWE:

8

THE WITNESS:

10

MR. LOWE:

You think is legally

MR. WILSON:

No, no, I'm not asking

about legally, just his own personal --

14
15

Not like.

improper or confidential?

12
13

That he would like or that

is --

9

11

Okay.

MR. LOWE:

Just his own personal

belief?

16

MR. WILSON:

Yes.

Is there anything

17

here that you would say to yourself, gee, if I

18

could avoid having this filed in federal court,

19

that would be better for me?

20

THE WITNESS:

21

(Whereupon, a short recess was

22

had, 12:36 p.m. - 12:40 p.m.)

23

THE WITNESS:

24

Give me just a minute.

Could you repeat the

question one more time?

25

1-800-325-3376

MR. WILSON:

Sure, sure.

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Q.

(BY MR. WILSON)

Thinking about your

2

testimony today, is there any portion of it that

3

you would prefer not be available to the public

4

by way of a file in Federal Court?

5

A.

No.

6

Q.

Let me go back to ask you for a

7

moment about the April 2, 2013 performance

8

deficiencies memorandum.

9

MR. LOWE:

10

Q.

11

2.

12

valid?

Exhibit 2.

(BY MR. WILSON)

I think it's Exhibit

Do you believe any of these criticisms is

13

A.

No.

14

Q.

Did you tell Commissioner Carrington

15

and Commissioner Little-Brown that?

16

A.

I did.

17

Q.

And did you ask Commissioner

18

Carrington to withdraw this?

19

A.

I did.

20

Q.

And did Commissioner Little-Brown ask

21
22

the same thing?
A.

23
24

She did.
MR. WILSON:

I have nothing further.

Thank you for your time.

25

1-800-325-3376

THE WITNESS:

You're welcome.

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1
2

MR. WILSON:
United States has any.

3
4

I don't know if the

MR. ADELSTEIN:

The United States

does not have any questions.

5

MR. SMITH:

We're going to have a lot

6

of questions and we'd like to talk about what --

7

what is best for doing that efficiently.

8

suggest we take a lunch break and if there is a

9

preferred idea, I'm happy to talk about it.

10
11

MR. WILSON:

That's -- I have nothing

to say.

12
13

I

MR. SMITH:

You have -- does that

mean you don't have any problem with that?

14

MR. WILSON:

I'm here, the deposition

15

has been noticed, you have a right to

16

cross-examine and everybody's probably hungry,

17

but it's not my witness.

18

stay for your questions or I can leave.

19

MR. SMITH:

20

MR. LOWE:

21

MR. SMITH:

My option is I can

Indeed.
Do we have that option?
Well, in any event, if

22

it's reasonable, how about taking an hour and be

23

back at a quarter till?

24

MR. WILSON:

25

MR. LOWE:

1-800-325-3376

Is that okay?
Okay here.

I don't think we have any

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choice.

2

MR. MURRILL:

There will be no

3

questions for the sheriff's office.

4

MR. ADELSTEIN:

5

Could you repeat what

time you would like to reconvene?

6

MR. LOWE:

7

MR. SMITH:

8

(Whereupon, a lunch recess was

9

had, 12:42 p.m. - 1:46 p.m.)

10

1:45 Central.

MR. SMITH:

Thanks.

Thank you very much for

11

the break, and I'll start with my questions.

12

Initially let me say -- and I will

13

refer to you as Mr. Sewell -- that based on this

14

morning's testimony I've reviewed what I intend

15

to cover and I'm going to try to make my best

16

judgment about what to cover.

17

intention to elicit any privileged information

18

from you, so if you would, please, remember your

19

independent responsibility, and if there is a

20

question that would draw privileged information

21

out I'd ask that you raise this issue and we

22

will revolve it as best we can before you

23

answer.

24
25

1-800-325-3376

It's not my

Is that okay?
THE WITNESS:

Yes.

EXAMINATION

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BY MR. SMITH:

2

Q.

While you worked for Jefferson

3

County, the county was at all times the client

4

in your attorney/client relationship; is that

5

right?

6

MR. LOWE:

Well, that's vague and

7

overbroad.

8

client, what are you talking about?

9
10
11
12

The only client, the client, a

MR. SMITH:

I think I said it was

always the client.
Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

It was the client,

wasn't it?

13

A.

It was a client.

14

Q.

Okay.

15

A.

The general retirement system, the

And who were the others?

16

county, the election commission, probate judges,

17

tax collectors, tax assessors, coroners.

18
19

MR. LOWE:

And those are just what he

recalls at the moment.

20

A.

Right.

21

Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

But as between -- in

22

terms of your work for the county, the Jefferson

23

County Commission was the voice of the county as

24

your client; is that right?

25

A.

1-800-325-3376

Not necessarily.

The Jefferson

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County Commission is the governing body of the

2

county.

3

Q.

And --

4

A.

But you have -- today you have county

5

managers, you have other -- you have department

6

heads, you have other elected officials.

7

don't think it's as simple as --

8
9

MR. LOWE:

Yeah.

I

I think we could

term that as a legal question, too, although

10

he's certainly qualified to answer legal

11

questions perhaps.

12

situation?

13

and I think we both know that the entity itself

14

is the client, not the individual or collective

15

commission.

16

Q.

But who's the client in that

That's a legal question and it --

(BY MR. SMITH)

Throughout your time

17

at the county, Jefferson County was your

18

employer; is that right?

19

A.

Yes.

20

Q.

And your service in the capacity of

21

county attorney only existed by virtue of that

22

employment as an employee there; is that right?

23
24
25

A.
question.
Q.

1-800-325-3376

I don't think I understand your
I mean -Were you ever hired as outside

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counsel?

2

A.

By Jefferson County?

3

Q.

By Jefferson County.

4

A.

No.

5

Q.

So all of your service as an attorney

6

of Jefferson County was in the capacity as an

7

employee; is that right?

8
9
10
11
12

A.

I think that would be right -- as

opposed to a contractor?
Q.

As opposed to outside counsel or

non-employees?
A.

Yeah.

That would be -- I think so.

13

MR. SMITH:

14

THE REPORTER:

15

continue the numbering?

16
17

MR. SMITH:

Mark that as an exhibit.
Do you want to

No, I'll make that County

1, if that's okay.

18

(Whereupon, County Exhibit 1 was

19

marked for identification, a copy of

20

which is attached hereto.)

21

Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

Is this the

22

resolution of organization that was in place in

23

Jefferson County from November 10th, 2010 until

24

July 25th of this year?

25

A.

1-800-325-3376

It appears to be.

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Q.

And what are the provisions that

2

establish your position or your place in the

3

organization?

4

A.

I'm sorry, repeat that.

5

Q.

What part of the resolution provides

6
7

for your place in the organization?
A.

Paragraph -- excuse me, page four,

8

midway down the page has the sentence, the

9

at-will county attorney shall report to the

10

commission as a whole.

11

referring to?

12

Q.

Is that what you're

Well, that's what I see as a

13

provision that has you placed in the

14

organization.

15

meaning the county attorney?

16
17
18
19
20

A.

Are there any others -- you

Well, I'm not the county attorney

anymore, but -Q.

No, I -- my questions relate to when

you were.
A.

The -- I think the term county

21

attorney is mentioned in several other places in

22

that document.

23

read the document?

24
25

Q.

I have not sat -- you want me to

Do you agree that you were an at-will

employee?

1-800-325-3376

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A.

Of Jefferson County?

2

Q.

Of Jefferson County.

3

A.

Yes.

4

Q.

And is there any provision in the

5

resolution of organization -- strike that.

6

Is the president of the commission

7

the appointing authority of the legal

8

department?

9

A.

This document suggests that the

10

answer to that question would be yes, would

11

serve as an appointing authority over the county

12

attorney's office.

13
14

Q.

And when this document was approved,

you were the county attorney?

15

A.

Yes.

16

Q.

I believe there were questions asked

17

earlier about an issue of your compensation in

18

October, November 2012.

19

asked about that?

Do you remember being

20

A.

I do.

21

Q.

And my memory of your testimony, and

22

to some extent my notes, were that Commissioner

23

Carrington made a statement quoted in the media

24

that was favorable toward your contribution to

25

the county.

1-800-325-3376

Is that an accurate paraphrase?

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A.

I think so.

2

Q.

Let me give you what I've marked as

3

County 2.

4

you.

5

And I don't mean to throw that at

A.

That's okay.

6

MR. ADELSTEIN:

Excuse me, could you

7

tell me how many pages it is and what the title

8

of the document is?

9

(Whereupon, County Exhibit 2 was

10

marked for identification, a copy of

11

which is attached hereto.)

12
13

Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

You've got County

Exhibit 2 there?

14

A.

Yes.

15

Q.

Is that a newspaper article from

16

AL.com, October 18?

17

MR. LOWE:

Are you asking him to

18

authenticate an AL.com article or comment on the

19

hearsay contained therein, or where are we going

20

with this?

21

MR. SMITH:

Well, it's similar to

22

Sewell 1, which was, you know, an article from

23

AL.com.

24

it.

25

1-800-325-3376

So I'm not asking him to authenticate

MR. LOWE:

Okay.

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2

Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

Did you read this

article?

3

A.

Probably.

4

Q.

And as I understood earlier, you read

5

some of the media coverage at that time because

6

you were familiar with Mr. Carrington's

7

statement?

8
9
10

A.

Well, I was -- I was in the meeting

present when the statement was made.
Q.

And so was this a topic at the county

11

courthouse in the legal department, your -- your

12

demand for a pay increase in October of 2012?

13

MR. WILSON:

14

MR. LOWE:

15

A.

Objection, form.
Yeah, same objection.

It's also vague.

Is this a topic in

16

the legal department or -- I'm unclear as to

17

where exactly this was a topic.

18

about with the commission, the county in

19

general, the legal department, if you can be

20

more specific?

21
22

Q.

You talking

Sure, let me try to ask a better

question.

23

MR. ADELSTEIN:

Could I also

24

interject, could you give the date, October

25

18th, what year, and possibly the style of the

1-800-325-3376

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article so I can access it?

2

MR. SMITH:

Sure.

It's October the

3

18th of 2012, AL.com, the article's title is

4

"Jefferson County's top lawyer who makes

5

$375,000 could leave in dispute over pay raise."

6
7

Q.

MR. ADELSTEIN:

Thank you.

(BY MR. SMITH)

Now, when we look at

8

the article there has been some reference to --

9

there is reference, I'll read from it.

It says,

10

it is unclear when Sewell might leave, but boxes

11

in his office were packed this week and his desk

12

was clean.

13

dispute were expected to continue through next

14

week.

15

However, talks to resolve the pay

My question to you is do you regard

16

this as a cordial circumstance between you and

17

the commission, or would you regard it as more

18

of a controversy?

19

MR. LOWE:

Well, what circumstance

20

are you talking about?

21

office?

22
23

That's what you read.
MR. SMITH:

Yes, having boxed up his

office over a pay increase demand.

24
25

Having boxes in his

MR. LOWE:

That may not be his

interpretation of why there were boxes packed up

1-800-325-3376

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in his office.

2

something some reporter gleaned from a

3

conversation apparently with someone other than

4

Mr. Sewell.

5

Q.

6

the question?

7

A.

You're asking him to comment on

(BY MR. SMITH)

Okay.

Can you answer

I don't regard it as cordial or

8

confrontational.

9

office for 25 years, in the hallway, everywhere,

10
11

I've had boxes packed in my

just like your office.
Q.

I'm sure there were boxes somewhere,

12

but -- but is it correct that you situated your

13

office to vacate it?

14

A.

No.

15

Q.

That it was packed up?

16

A.

No, no.

17
18

If I had intended to vacate

my office, it would have been vacated.
Q.

Well, I didn't ask if you intended to

19

vacate, I was asking whether it was situated so

20

that you would be able to vacate it if you

21

didn't get the pay increase you were demanding.

22
23

MR. WILSON:
A.

Objection.

I don't really follow your question.

24

If I wanted to leave the county, I could have

25

left any day.

1-800-325-3376

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Q.

I know that, but was your boxing up

2

of your office unique on this occasion compared

3

to the routine existence or presence of boxes in

4

the office?

5
6

MR. WILSON:
A.

No.

Objection to form.

The office was cleaned up.

7

Everyone in the office cleaned the office up.

8

It was a mess.

9

Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

Okay.

So the media

10

coverage about your having packed this week and

11

your desk clean, the coverage indicating that

12

that was a standoff about your leaving is

13

inaccurate?

14

A.

It is greatly exaggerated, yeah.

15

Q.

And so to what extent is it true?

16

A.

I don't recall ever making a demand

17

or threatening to quit.

That is not at all

18

correct.

19

know, a media report of something that is

20

sensationalized or exaggerated.

21

will notice in the article that I've declined to

22

comment.

It's not uncommon to have a -- you

You will -- you

23

(Whereupon, County Exhibit 3 was

24

marked for identification, a copy of

25

which is attached hereto.)

1-800-325-3376

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Q.

Let me show you what I'm marking as

2

County Exhibit 3.

3

you were familiar with when it was issued?

4

Is this press coverage that

MR. LOWE:

5

vague question.

6

more specific.

Still, that's sort of a

Did you read this article is

7

MR. SMITH:

8

And for Jay's benefit, with my

9

Yeah, sure.

apology, this is an article of October 19, 2012,

10

and the title is -- it's an AL.com article and

11

the title is "County Attorney's timing In

12

Demanding a raise couldn't be worse, but not as

13

bad as Kenneth Klee trying to stop the story."

14
15
16

Q.

MR. ADELSTEIN:

Thank you.

(BY MR. SMITH)

Did you read this

article on or about the day it was issued?

17

A.

I don't know.

18

Q.

As you look at it now, are you

19

familiar with it as an article from that time

20

period?

21

A.

Honestly I don't remember it, but I

22

don't -- there is -- as you know, as you're

23

learning, there is something in the paper about

24

Jefferson County every day all day.

25

read all of them.

1-800-325-3376

I don't

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2

Q.

And is this story related to your

demand for a pay increase?

3

MR. LOWE:

4

MR. WILSON:

5

MR. LOWE:

Object to form.
Objection to form.
He said he didn't demand a

6

pay increase.

7

A.

I don't think I demanded anything.

8

Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

9
10

Did you request a pay

increase?
A.

I requested an increase for everyone

11

in the county attorney's office that would be

12

compliant with the county's own resolutions that

13

set the pay scales for everyone in the office,

14

including myself, but there was no demand or

15

threat or --

16

Q.

17
18

Did your negotiation about that

include discussion about leaving?
A.

Not that I recall.

19

(Whereupon, County Exhibit 4 was

20

marked for identification, a copy of

21

which is attached hereto.)

22
23

Q.

Let me show you what

I'm marking as County Exhibit 4.

24
25

(BY MR. SMITH)

MR. SMITH:

Jay, County Exhibit 4 is

an AL.com article dated October 23, 2012.

1-800-325-3376

The

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title is "Give Jefferson County lawyer Jeff

2

Sewell what he's asking for, a kick in the

3

pants."

4
5

Q.

MR. ADELSTEIN:

Thank you.

(BY MR. SMITH)

Mr. Sewell, do you

6

recall reading this article on or about the date

7

when it was issued?

8
9
10

A.

I do recall reading this article.

I

don't remember when, but I recall reading it.
Q.

And outside the commission, did you

11

receive criticism from members of the public

12

about your request for a pay increase to go from

13

three seventy-five to -- to something over four

14

hundred thousand?

15

MR. LOWE:

16

MR. WILSON:

17

MR. LOWE:

18

MR. SMITH:

20

MR. LOWE:

Criticism from the

Yes.
Personally?

Did they call

him, write him --

22
23

Objection to form.

public?

19

21

Object to the form.

MR. SMITH:

Those would all be

answers, those would all be responses.

24

A.

25

public?

1-800-325-3376

No, I did not.

Criticism from the

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Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

I'm just asking if --

2

did you get, for example, were there web sites

3

that you saw where people commented negatively

4

on what you were requesting?

5

A.

Such as what?

6

Q.

Such as -- let me give you a second

7

to read this article.

8

the comments being made here by John Archibald,

9

that kind of criticism is what I'm asking

10
11

And along the lines of

about.
A.

No, not -- I mean quite to the

12

contrary.

13

including lawyers in your law firm, that this

14

should be -- the county's attorneys should be

15

paid in accordance with their -- county's

16

resolutions.

17

criticism.

18

Q.

I got lots of calls from individuals,

I wouldn't characterize that as

So other than John Archibald in this

19

article, you didn't hear criticism or negative

20

sentiment about your request from anyone else?

21

A.

I don't recall hearing it.

I mean, I

22

don't think that John Archibald and -- his

23

opinions about things are just his opinions.

24

He's entitled to his opinion.

25

to affect --

1-800-325-3376

That's not going

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Q.

I'm not trying to offer him as an

2

expert witness or a character reference for

3

anybody here.

4

with what was publicized at the time and just

5

wanting to know if your recollection today is

6

that this article was the only negative

7

sentiment you heard about the request you made

8

in October of 2012 for a pay increase from three

9

seventy-five to something over four hundred

10

I'm asking -- I'm presenting you

thousand in annual salary?

11

MR. WILSON:

12

A.

Objection to form.

Let me clarify your question for

13

you.

I didn't make a pay request for myself.

14

made a request of the commission that the

15

commission follow their resolution that set up

16

all of the attorneys' salaries in the county

17

attorney's office, and to treat the lawyers in

18

the county attorney's office the same way that

19

all of the other employees of Jefferson County

20

were being treated.

21

of this.

22

I

That's the context of all

There was no demand, there was no

23

threat.

24

given to John Archibald and how it was spun to

25

John Archibald I was not part of.

1-800-325-3376

How this got played and how this was

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John Archibald never called me before he wrote

2

this.

3

been a much different article or would not have

4

been written at all.

5
6
7
8

Had he done so, I suspect it would have

Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

If he had called you,

you would have said no comment?
A.

I would have listened to what he had

to say and what his questions were.

9

(Whereupon, County Exhibit 5 was

10

marked for identification, a copy of

11

which is attached hereto.)

12

Q.

All right.

And then if you could

13

look at County Exhibit 5 -- have you had a

14

chance to look at it?

15

A.

16

Yeah.
MR. SMITH:

All right.

For Jay's

17

benefit, this is an article dated November 21,

18

2012, AL.com, "Jefferson County attorney who

19

earns $375,000 to get $18,750 pay raise."

20

MR. ADELSTEIN:

21

MR. SMITH:

22

Q.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

(BY MR. SMITH)

And you were asked

23

earlier about quotations attributed to

24

Commissioner Carrington.

25

see about the middle of that first page there is

1-800-325-3376

In this article as you

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a quotation there that says we've completed our

2

evaluations of the county attorney's office and

3

we find their performance to be satisfactory.

4

Is that a statement that you heard him make in

5

an open forum too?

6

A.

Possibly.

7

Q.

Okay.

I don't recall.

And then there's another

8

quotation below that attributed to Commissioner

9

Carrington that says Jeff is all in, we're

10

moving forward.

11

public or in some open setting?

12

A.

Did you hear him say that in

David, I don't remember -- David

13

Smith, I don't remember if David Carrington said

14

that in a public setting or -- I just don't

15

remember.

16

Q.

Okay.

And --

17

A.

I think that he did.

I think I was

18

sitting at the bench looking at him, but I won't

19

swear to it because I just don't remember.

20

Q.

Okay.

So the public comment here is

21

that what's being -- the work being done by your

22

office is satisfactory.

23

issue -- well, beg your pardon.

24

that quotation.

25

take issue with that evaluation of being

1-800-325-3376

Is that -- did you take
We've looked at

My question to you is did you

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satisfactory?

2

A.

I don't take issue with that quote.

3

Q.

But was that evaluation provided at

4

that time?

5

MR. LOWE:

I object to the form.

6

What evaluation is there in this?

And this is

7

an article from Barnett Wright with AL.com; who

8

knows whether he's quoting correctly,

9

paraphrasing or what.

I mean, there's no reason

10

for us to even believe that he's accurately

11

quoting.

12

something that we don't even know whether it's

13

authentic?

So why are you asking him to validate

14

MR. SMITH:

15

MR. LOWE:

The -This isn't a quote by

16

Jeff, this is a quote presumably by David

17

Carrington who Jeff has said he doesn't recall

18

whether he made it or not.

19

MR. SMITH:

I just didn't remember

20

these objections being made this morning when

21

questions were asked about quotations that were

22

perhaps more positive.

23

MR. LOWE:

I thought you were

24

objecting, saying that it would invoke

25

privilege, and in most instances we didn't

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answer them.

2
3

MR. SMITH:

applied to that question.

4
5

I don't think that

MR. LOWE:

Well, that's not what

we're talking about now.

6

MR. SMITH:

I'm just saying.

No, what we're talking

7

about now is newspaper quotations, and the

8

precedent in the deposition --

9

MR. LOWE:

Right.

And they're

10

hearsay and they're -- he's said he doesn't

11

remember being made.

12

MR. SMITH:

13

MR. LOWE:

I'm not -Look, just go on.

14

made my statement.

15

let's quit wasting time.

16

Q.

Let's go on.

(BY MR. SMITH)

I've

You're right,

Ask your questions.
Well, there's a

17

quotation here that says we've completed our

18

evaluations and we find their performance to be

19

satisfactory.

20

heard at that time?

21
22
23

A.

Is that an evaluation that you

I don't remember what I heard at what

time.
Q.

Okay.

And so as of this time frame,

24

October up to November 1st of 2012, you don't

25

remember how the commissioners evaluated the

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performance of the legal department, do you?

2
3
4
5

MR. LOWE:
Q.

Or do you?

(BY MR. SMITH)

You just said you

didn't, as I heard you.
A.

You used the word evaluation.

I

6

don't recall ever seeing an evaluation or being

7

given an evaluation -- a written document.

8

Certainly no criticism of anything.

9

Q.

And so satisfactory would be -- you

10

wouldn't regard the satisfactory rating as being

11

in any way critical of you?

12

A.

No.

13

(Whereupon, County Exhibit 6 was

14

marked for identification, a copy of

15

which is attached hereto.)

16

MR. SMITH:

17

Okay.

Let me show you

what I'm marking as County Exhibit 6.

18

Jay, this is a memorandum to

19

Jefferson County Commission from Jeff Sewell,

20

County Attorney, March 13, 2013, subject,

21

recommendations to reduce outside legal

22

expenses.

23
24
25

Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

Is this a memorandum

that you prepared?
A.

1-800-325-3376

Yes.

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MR. LOWE:

Let me interrupt for a

2

second.

3

deposition, are you saying this is in no way

4

subject to the attorney/client privilege and

5

that he can respond to anything in it?

6

By introducing this into this

MR. SMITH:

I want to ask a couple of

7

foundation questions.

8

to ask him about it until now, and so until I --

9
10

Mr. LOWE:

I haven't had the chance

Well, you have marked it

as an exhibit in this deposition.

11

MR. SMITH:

12

MR. WILSON:

I have.

I have.

You've provided it to

13

me, I'm not somebody in privity with the

14

county.

15

MR. SMITH:

16

MR. WILSON:

Correct.
And I don't think you

17

have a choice at this point, you've marked it,

18

it's on the record, it's been exposed to me, I

19

don't think you can make a claim that anything

20

in here any longer is privileged.

21
22
23

Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

When you issued this,

this went to the public; isn't that right?
A.

Not by me it didn't.

If it did, it

24

was -- I mean, I recall there being a newspaper

25

article about this, so it --

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Q.

2

issues?

3

A.

4

The subject line is recommendations

to reduce outside legal expenses.

5
6

Is this about managing budgetary

Q.

In terms of the -- the expenditure of

money on lawyers?

7

A.

On outside law firms.

8

Q.

Right.

9
10

Which is a budget matter that

requires commission action to pay the lawyers;
right?

11

A.

It requires commission action to

12

establish a budget which includes a lot of

13

things, including paying outside lawyers.

14

Q.

It would be a yes, wouldn't it?

15

A.

It would be what it is.

16

Q.

And this is all public information,

17

isn't it, the rates you're paying the lawyers?

18

A.

19

The --

20

MR. LOWE:
sure.

21
22
23

Look through it to make

A.
this.

I mean, I don't know what you mean by
The --

Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

The information here

24

is -- is what's being paid by Jefferson County

25

to lawyers?

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A.

The dollar amounts that are in here

2

are the hourly rates and such and so forth, yes,

3

that's all public contracts, public contracts or

4

public records or both.

5

Q.

And in providing the -- this

6

evaluation to the county commission, did you

7

have as your ultimate recommendation that the

8

size of the legal department under your

9

supervision be increased?

10

A.

That was an -- a recommendation.

11

Q.

Yes.

12

A.

Yeah.

13

Q.

That was a recommendation in

14
15

connection with the March -A.

Yes.

This memo was the result of a

16

request made to me by the commission or someone

17

on the commission as to, you know, how can we

18

reduce, what can we do to save money on the

19

outside lawyers.

20

to a request for the information.

21

Q.

This was written in response

And this is the subject of the memo

22

that's been marked earlier as Sewell Exhibit 2;

23

is that right?

The --

24

A.

I don't think I have kept that, so --

25

Q.

Item four; is that right?

1-800-325-3376

Is that

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2

not still over there?
A.

No.

3

MR. WILSON:

We'll find it.

4

THE WITNESS:

5

Which exhibit -- what's the date?

Which one is that?

6

Q.

7

memo to you.

8

A.

From David Carrington?

9

Q.

From David Carrington.

10

A.

And then what was your question?

11

Q.

And I'm saying this memo is the

12
13
14

(BY MR. SMITH)

It's the April 2nd

subject of item four on this memo; right?
A.

Your Exhibit 6 is the subject of

paragraph four of the --

15

MR. LOWE:

That was his question.

16

A.

-- of Number 2?

17

Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

18

A.

Yes, it is.

19

Q.

And so is it correct -- have you got

20

That's my question.

2 in front of you as well now?

21

A.

Yes.

22

Q.

Thanks.

I'm reading from paragraph

23

four of Sewell Exhibit 2.

24

evaluation of billing rates was grossly

25

misleading in that it compared apples to

1-800-325-3376

It says your

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oranges.

2

understand that sentence when you reviewed this

3

memo?

4

A.

Do you know what that means?

Did you

I -- I can read the sentence, but I'm

5

not -- the purpose of the memo was not to

6

evaluate billing rates, the purpose of the memo

7

was to -- I mean, the billing rates are what

8

they are, they're -- that's absolutely factual.

9

The purpose of the memo was to try to figure out

10
11

a way to do more work in-house at less cost.
Q.

But would you agree that what you did

12

in the memo was make a comparison between

13

expenditures on the outside lawyers and how it

14

could be different with a larger legal

15

department reporting to you?

16

A.

17

comparison.

18

the facts are the facts.

19

Q.

Well, I don't think I made a
I think I stated what the facts --

Well, all right.

If the word

20

comparison isn't appropriate, then did you

21

describe how much money would be saved by

22

growing the legal department reporting to you as

23

compared to engaging outside counsel to the

24

extent the county was at the time of these

25

papers?

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A.

2

itself.

3

Q.

4

I think that the memo speaks for

But you can still answer the question

whether it does or not?

5

A.

I can -- I mean, I can answer the

6

question, there's no comparison in here.

7

don't really understand your question.

8
9
10

Q.

When you give a five-million-dollar

figure, is that based on comparing one thing to
another?

11

A.

12
13

I

What are you referring to?
MR. LOWE:

Where is that stated in

here?

14

MR. SMITH:

I'm sorry, guys.

Let me

15

be sure that that's -- that this is where I get

16

that number.

17
18
19

(PAUSE)

No, it's a fair question.

Let me

withdraw mine.
Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

The memo, the April

20

2nd memo goes on to say, as I've shared with you

21

before, billing rates for outside attorneys

22

include items that are not paid by in-house

23

attorneys, items like client development,

24

vacation days, sick days, holidays, staff

25

payroll and benefits, employer contributions to

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health insurance, employer contributions to

2

Social Security taxes, overhead contributions

3

for rent, utilities, insurance, et cetera.

4

that true?

5

true?

6

A.

Is

Is that statement in this memo

I don't know if it's true or not, I

7

don't understand the statement or what relevance

8

it has to this memo.

It is in the memo.

9

Q.

It's in the April 2nd memo?

10

A.

Uh-huh (INDICATING AFFIRMATIVE).

I

11

mean that, what you just read is in the April

12

2nd memo, but it -- I don't know --

13

MR. LOWE:

You're asking him to

14

explain David Carrington's thought processes,

15

which may be impossible to do.

16

A.

I mean, it suggested to me how

17

hastily this was prepared, how quickly the April

18

2nd memo was thrown together without a whole lot

19

of thought.

20

this March 13 memo was also referenced in item

21

number five of the April 2nd memo.

22
23
24
25

Q.

And I believe this memo is also --

(BY MR. SMITH)

And is the

information in paragraph five correct, too?
A.

No.

Carrington is completely wrong.

It's completely false.

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Q.

Okay.

2

A.

Yes.

Will you explain that?
If you read on April -- the

3

April 2nd memo, paragraph number five,

4

Mr. Carrington refers to a memorandum, this

5

County Exhibit 6, dated March 13, 2013.

6

that I represented that your -- my office had

7

reviewed 1298 contracts in the year 2012, and

8

that is a correct statement.

9

a detailed review of the 2012 -- commission

He says

It says, in fact,

10

agendas is what he's referring to -- indicates,

11

A, the total number of contracts and amendments,

12

many of which were minor -- and so forth and so

13

on -- that were presented to the commission for

14

consideration was approximately one-half that

15

amount, indeed the total number of items on all

16

commission agendas was actually less than 1298.

17

When I read this I realized how

18

quickly again this was -- it was thrown together

19

because the assumption that underlies that

20

statement is that a contract only is reviewed

21

one time in the county attorney's office.

22

That's wrong.

23

a contract that is reviewed in the county

24

attorney's office ever makes it to the county

25

commission agenda.

1-800-325-3376

The other assumption is, is that

That's also wrong.

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Q.

So --

2

A.

It is -- when a contract comes in for

3

review in the county attorney's office it almost

4

always is incomplete, something's not right, it

5

is logged in, it is logged out, it goes away for

6

days, weeks or months, it comes back, gets

7

logged in, it gets logged out again.

8

1298 is absolutely one hundred percent accurate.

9

The secretary in the office keeps a log of these

The number

10

and that number was derived from that log and

11

there were 1298 contract reviews in the year

12

2012.

13

Q.

And if a contract, single contract,

14

was reviewed five times, is that a one or a

15

five?

16

A.

It's five.

17

Q.

That's a five in the 1298?

18

A.

Absolutely.

And there also -- it is

19

very common for contracts to be reviewed that

20

never make it to the agenda and never get voted

21

on because along the way it just falls apart.

22

Q.

Is there anything in the memo that

23

explains that where one contract is reviewed

24

multiple times, that you treated that as a

25

multiple as opposed to the one for the

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contract?

2

A.

Everyone that works for Jefferson

3

County that is involved in the contract process

4

that has any experience or tenure there knows

5

that.

6
7
8

Someone who had some experience -Q.

I think my question was is there any

reference in the memo to that?
A.

There's no reference to that, there's

9

no reference to where the elevators are or the

10

public restroom, because people that have been

11

there a little while understand that.

12
13

Q.

Well, I don't know -- no one there

has been there as long as you had; right?

14

A.

Almost no one.

15

Q.

And so in the memo it doesn't explain

16

that 1298 represents the multiple times one

17

contract would be reviewed as opposed to just

18

the number of contracts themselves?

19

MR. WILSON:

Objection to form.

I

20

mean, you're going around and around.

21

document says what it says, and the document

22

doesn't actually say contracts reviewed, it says

23

contract reviews.

24

THE WITNESS:

25

MR. SMITH:

1-800-325-3376

The

Plural.
Is that an objection to

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the form?

2
3

MR. WILSON:
the form.

4
5

That is an objection to

MR. LOWE:

And thank -- thank you for

making it.

6

A.

So the point is, is that on April

7

2nd, paragraph number five of the April 2nd memo

8

was just -- it's just false, it's wrong.

9

Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

Did the commission

10

approve your recommendation in the March 13

11

memo?

12

A.

Let me look at my recommendations.

13

(COUNSEL AND WITNESS CONFERRING.)

14

I recommended that the office be

15

comprised of six qualified competent in-house

16

attorneys with adequate skill sets, along with

17

some clerical positions being created.

18

aware that those recommendations were ever

19

implemented.

20

done so since I am not there anymore, but I'm

21

unaware of it.

22

Q.

I'm not

It's certainly possible they have

(BY MR. SMITH)

The last you knew,

23

this recommendation had not been approved in any

24

way, had it?

25

A.

1-800-325-3376

I think that's right.

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Q.

And did you provide them any

2

comparison in this analysis of the compensation

3

in the Jefferson County Legal Department to the

4

legal department of any other local government

5

subdivision?

6

A.

Not in -- not in this memorandum, I

7

did not.

There had been previous conversations

8

and discussions with this and former commissions

9

that go back for years that looked at the

10

workload done in-house at Jefferson County

11

with -- you know, comparing that to similar

12

in-house legal offices in other parts of the

13

United States, including Jacksonville, Florida,

14

Duval County, Florida, and other counties around

15

the country, but that was not in this document.

16
17
18

Q.

But in -- that would be relevant,

would you agree?
A.

That was not what I was asked to do.

19

The purpose of the memorandum was to advise

20

about how to save money on the cost of outside

21

counsel, what to do to accomplish that goal.

22

Q.

If you were a decision maker about

23

how to manage this money, would you be

24

interested in knowing how do the salaries in

25

this department compare to similar departments?

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A.

If I had -- if I were a decision

2

maker I would -- and I wanted to know that, I

3

would ask for it.

4
5

Q.

So you -- but you would regard it as

relevant?

6

MR. WILSON:

7

A.

Objection to form.

If I were a decision maker?

I don't

8

know if it would be relevant -- to whom it would

9

be relevant to, but if I wanted to know I would

10

ask for it.

11

Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

And did you

12

understand when you reviewed the April 2nd memo

13

that Commissioner Carrington wanted that kind of

14

information or would have found it useful?

15

MR. LOWE:

Object to the form.

It's

16

asking him to speculate what Carrington wanted.

17

He's already told you what he was directed to

18

do.

19

A.

If Mr. Carrington had wanted that

20

information he could have asked me for it, but

21

he didn't.

22

Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

Do you know, as of

23

this time period of March 2013, how the

24

compensation in your office compared to any

25

other Alabama local government legal department?

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MR. WILSON:

2

A.

3

compensation?

4

Q.

5
6

Objection to form.

You talking about the in-house

(BY MR. SMITH)

Yes.

I do, yes,

uh-huh (INDICATING AFFIRMATIVE).
A.

I had just general knowledge of how

7

it would compare to the compensation, not just

8

in Alabama but in other parts of the country

9

with similarly sized counties with similarly

10
11

sized legal issues and problems.
Q.

And what is your understanding of how

12

your salary compared to other people in similar

13

positions across the country?

14

A.

Well, you have to understand that in

15

March of 2013 there was no other county in

16

the -- that I'm aware of in the United States of

17

America that was going through what Jefferson

18

County's going through.

19

county's -- Jefferson County's compensation

20

scales to let's just say Pike County, Alabama,

21

would, in my judgment, that would be an apple to

22

orange comparison, but perhaps a comparison to

23

Duval County, Florida might not be, where the

24

county attorney earns substantially more than

25

$375,000 a year.

1-800-325-3376

So to compare the

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Q.

But if you went back, you say the

2

county circumstances were peculiar in 2013, your

3

salary increases had been on what percentage

4

increases for the three years before?

5

A.

Zero.

6

Q.

And so in 2010 your salary was three

7

seventy-five?

8

A.

9

following this.

10
11

I think you -- perhaps you're not

Q.

I may not be.

I thought you said you

had zero percent increase for three years?

12

A.

I had no increase despite -- despite

13

the resolution of the county commission that set

14

up a ten-step 5 percent per year increase.

15

Q.

Let me ask a better question.

16

MR. LOWE:

You know, let me interject

17

a second.

18

issue in this employment lawsuit that -- why are

19

we delving into why he got paid, when he got

20

paid?

21

county that ended all issues and disputes

22

between Mr. Sewell and the county.

23

to delve into those for the rest of the day?

24
25

I don't -- is Mr. Sewell's pay an

He signed a separation agreement with the

Are we going

And, by the way, I'll raise the
seven-hour limit rule since it looks like we're

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going to bump into that on this deposition.

2

I mean, where are we going with all this?

3

So,

You get to cross-examine him within

4

the scope of what he asked this morning, but

5

admittedly I'm not up to speed on what the

6

issues are in this lawsuit, but I don't think

7

anything has anything to do with what, you know,

8

he made and his salary and why he got an

9

increase or not.

I mean, if you want to talk

10

about why he got terminated, I guess -- I'm not

11

even sure that's relevant, but --

12

MR. SMITH:

13

MR. LOWE:

14

That was a polite way of

saying --

15
16

Well, what I'll say is --

MR. SMITH:

I know what you're

saying.

17

MR. LOWE:

-- I think you're really

18

outside the scope of what's going on.

19

getting late in the day, it's getting more and

20

more tedious.

21

we cut to the chase?

22
23
24
25

A.

It's

I don't know, I'm just saying can

I don't remember your question.

I'm

sorry.
Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

In 2010, was your

salary approximately $375,000?

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2

A.

My salary was exactly $375,000, two

thousand eight, nine, ten and eleven.

3

Q.

The circumstances in 2013, which were

4

being in bankruptcy, weren't the same in those

5

years, was it?

6

A.

I don't follow your question.

7

Q.

We weren't in bankruptcy, Jefferson

8

County was not in bankruptcy until 2011 as I

9

recall; is that right?

10
11

A.

Jefferson County had not filed a

petition until November of 2011.

12

Q.

My point is this:

You responded a

13

moment ago that -- that your salary was

14

justified, my word, because being in the county

15

attorney's office in 2013 was so uniquely

16

demanding.

17

said?

18

A.

Am I paraphrasing correctly what you

I don't feel like I'm trying to

19

justify my salary.

20

question.

21
22

MR. LOWE:

I don't follow your

And it's not relevant to

this case.

23

MR. SMITH:

Well, the commission's

24

dissatisfaction with Mr. Sewell is.

25

issue in my mind in the consent decree

1-800-325-3376

It's not an

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litigation --

2

MR. LOWE:

Okay.

Well, just ask him

3

questions about their dissatisfaction and

4

I'll --

5
6

MR. SMITH:

Well, this is a subject

of the memo.

7

MR. LOWE:

8

MR. SMITH:

So I am.

9

MR. LOWE:

All right.

10

MR. SMITH:

Okay.

Keep going.

But I'm happy to -- I've

11

cut out a lot of my outline during lunch, so I

12

wouldn't be so pessimistic.

13

can't get an answer to the question and so I can

14

go to the next one --

15

Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

But -- but if I

You were a very

16

highly paid county attorney by any standard,

17

wouldn't you agree?

18
19

MR. WILSON:
A.

Objection to form.

When I took the job as the county

20

attorney I agreed to accept the job at $88,000 a

21

year less than my predecessor, with the

22

understanding that there would be a pay scale

23

established as a matter of public record that

24

would treat all of the lawyers in the county

25

attorney's office the same as other employees of

1-800-325-3376

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the county who all have a ten-step 5 percent pay

2

scale by operation of the merit system.

3

that was the first time that had ever been

4

done.

5

And

And that was a requirement of mine in

6

order to -- there were two requirements that I

7

had when I took the job.

8

must create the same pay runway for the lawyers

9

as they -- as was created for all other

One is the commission

10

employees of the county.

11

requirement.

12

there would be a unanimous vote of the

13

commission to hire me as county attorney and if

14

there was not going to be a unanimous vote I was

15

not going to accept the job --

16

That was one

The other requirement was that

What had happened by March of 2013,

17

all of the other employees of the county who

18

were now reporting to the county manager, all of

19

their 5 percent merit raises had been reinstated

20

a year earlier, but the commission was the

21

appointing authority for our office.

22

office they had not been restarted, so we were

23

being treated odd man out from all the rest of

24

the employees in the county, which was a premise

25

that all of the commissioners understood fully.

1-800-325-3376

In our

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So it's very disingenuous to suggest

2

there's something sinister about all of our pay

3

which was established years earlier.

4

Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

I don't know why you

5

read my question that way.

6

you to confirm that you were aware in 2013 that

7

your salary was a particularly high salary level

8

for the position you occupied in the market

9

across the country.

10

MR. LOWE:

11

it's been asked and answered.

12

MR. SMITH:

13

MR. LOWE:

14

MR. SMITH:

15

MR. LOWE:

16

others, no.

17

several times.

18
19

I'm simply asking

I object to the form, plus

Did he answer?
Yeah, he has.
What's the answer?
He said compared to

And he even said Duval County

MR. SMITH:

He said Duval County

once, and I don't know --

20

MR. LOWE:

21

Q.

No, he said it --

(BY MR. SMITH)

But is there --

22

other than athletics coaches, was there anyone

23

paid higher as a public employee in Alabama than

24

you?

25

A.

1-800-325-3376

Absolutely, yeah.

Carroll Garrison,

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Malcolm Portera, the chancellors, the CFO of the

2

University of Alabama system.

3

college systems all through Alabama, yeah,

4

absolutely.

5
6

Auburn, yeah, the

Paul Hubbert.

MR. LOWE:

The junior college

systems.

7

A.

The junior college systems.

8

Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

9
10
11

Make more than

$400,000?
A.

Yeah.

The AEA director, and just go

on down the line.

12

Q.

Okay.

13

A.

And if you will actually go do the

14

research, you will find that a $375,000 annual

15

salary for a county attorney in a similarly

16

sized county with a similar number of years of

17

experience is -- that's not out of line.

18
19

Q.

Not out of line with other county

attorneys?

20

A.

Correct.

21

Q.

And who are all the county attorneys

22

by whatever location that you include when you

23

say that?

24
25

A.

The ones that come to my mind right

here, sitting here today, are Duval County,

1-800-325-3376

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Florida, Broward County, Florida.

2

others around the country.

There are

3

Q.

Okay.

4

A.

Including Jefferson County Alabama in

5

the 20 or so years before I became the county

6

attorney.

7

Q.

And so your testimony about your

8

salary level, would it be fair to summarize it

9

as being you thought it was at a completely

10

appropriate level?

11
12
13

MR. WILSON:
A.

Objection to form.

If I didn't think it was an

appropriate level, I would have objected to it.

14

Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

15

A.

The county commission established the

16

salary.

17

Q.

You did object to it.

18

MR. LOWE:

19

MR. WILSON:

20

MR. LOWE:

Objection.
It's not a question.
That's arguing with him.

21

A.

It really is.

22

Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

23

But you did object to

it, didn't you?

24
25

Well, you did.

MR. WILSON:
A.

1-800-325-3376

Objection to form.

What is it?

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2

Q.

A.

4

No.

No.

MR. LOWE:

He's already answered

that.

6
7

To your salary level

not being enough?

3

5

(BY MR. SMITH)

Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

The memo that's March

13th, had that analysis been done before that?

8

A.

What analysis?

9

Q.

Had you ever done a previous similar

10

analysis?

11

A.

To what?

To Exhibit 6?

12

Q.

Yes.

13

A.

I had done -- actually I had not

14

done, the -- my predecessor had done an analysis

15

and had a file that went back many, many years.

16

And when attorney compensation for the county

17

attorney's office was his concern and not my

18

concern, he had quite a file on this matter and

19

from time to time over the last 25 years, the --

20

you know, the pay was adjusted for the lawyers

21

in the county attorney's office.

22

to work for Jefferson County in 1982, my pay

23

was, I think, if I recall, was less than $3 an

24

hour.

25

Q.

1-800-325-3376

When I started

Well, so your answer about whether

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that analysis had been done by the county

2

attorney's office before, the answer is no?

3

A.

No, the answer is there had been an

4

analysis before of, you know, compensation type

5

analysis for the lawyers, in-house lawyers, but

6

it predated me as county attorney.

7
8

Q.

Comparing outside lawyer rates to

in-house lawyer salaries?

9

A.

I -- yes.

Yeah.

Yes.

10

Q.

But the outcome of the March 13th

11

memo was no change was made in the face of your

12

recommendation?

13

A.

14
15

I think that's right.
MR. SMITH:

Okay.

Can we take 10

minutes and let me sort out my outline?

16

THE WITNESS:

Sure.

17

MR. SMITH:

18

(Whereupon, a short recess was had,

19

2:47 p.m. - 3:21 p.m.)

20

MR. SMITH:

Thank you.

All right.

21

We can go back on the record.

22

is that right?

Thank you.

I have 6 marked;

23

THE REPORTER:

24

(Whereupon, County Exhibit 7 was

25

marked for identification, a copy of

1-800-325-3376

Yes.

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which is attached hereto.)

2

Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

3

MR. LOWE:

4

MR. SMITH:

5

My question to you --

Hold on.
Have we got it marked

yet?

6

THE REPORTER:

7

MR. WILSON:

Yes.
You might want to

8

identify it for the record and for Jay's benefit

9

too.

10

MR. SMITH:

What we have marked as

11

County Exhibit 7 is an e-mail sequence where the

12

last e-mail of the sequence is at 9:30 p.m. on

13

February 25th, 2013.

14
15
16
17
18

Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

Is this, Mr. Sewell,

an e-mail sequence that you've seen before?
A.

I think it's part of an e-mail

sequence I've seen before.
Q.

Is this a correct presentation of

19

these -- of the dialogue had on this occasion by

20

these e-mails?

21
22

MR. WILSON:
A.

Objection to form.

It's probably correct.

I don't think

23

it's complete, but the part that's here I think

24

is correct.

25

Q.

1-800-325-3376

(BY MR. SMITH)

Okay.

And this --

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the e-mail responses that are attributed to you

2

here are statements that you typed for yourself?

3

A.

Probably.

I think so.

4

Q.

All right.

Thank you.

5

In the public hearing on April 12th

6

that's been talked about before, Commissioner

7

Knight, you may recall, raised the subject of

8

Commissioner Carrington having made a proposal

9

for an amendment to the resolution of

10

organization to add a committee for the county

11

manager and to add a committee for the county

12

attorney.

13

up in that April 12th -- I'll call it a

14

hearing -- committee meeting?

15

A.

Do you remember that subject coming

Committee meeting.

I remember Knight

16

saying something along those lines, but it was

17

not -- it was not a -- what he was referring to

18

was not a proposed amendment to the resolution

19

of organization.

20

what he said -- may be what he said, but that's

21

not what the document was.

22

Q.

That's not what -- that's not

Well, let me read an unofficial

23

transcript of it, and that's what I acknowledge

24

to you it is, it's a transcript of the hearing

25

that day that's been typed for my use.

1-800-325-3376

I'm

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reading from commission -- what is attributed to

2

Commissioner Knight:

3

for you as the county attorney to say, hey guys,

4

we've got this coming up?

5

have forgotten about it, but I don't know, but

6

you knew about it and I don't feel like you

7

communicated that to us.

8

memorandum, because here we had this

9

organizational chart of 2010 when we came in and

And would it be prudent

You know, you may

The April 2nd

10

it says what it says, and we had the consent

11

hearing, the contempt hearing, with several

12

months passed by and the issue never became

13

paramount until April 2nd, 2010 -- I'll tell you

14

is what he said, I believe he meant 2013.

15

Continuing with reading Commissioner Knight:

16

think that was in response to Mr. Carrington

17

putting forth a resolution to add another

18

committee for the county manager so that we

19

could kind of shift all those departments under

20

county manager to him and then have the county

21

attorney to have a committee.

22

and Mr. Carrington, I think y'all told me y'all

23

had talked and we're in this committee meeting

24

and then you pull out a memorandum and put it

25

out and we kind of stepped back and took that

1-800-325-3376

I

And I know you

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deep breath.

2

Do you remember that subject coming

3

up that day?

4

A.

I remember trying to follow what --

5

that rambling discourse, and I didn't understand

6

it then.

7

Q.

Was there a committee meeting that

8

was open to the public on or about March 26th,

9

2013, where Commissioner Carrington discussed

10

making adjustments to the resolution of

11

organization?

12

A.

13
14
15
16

There are -- all committee meetings

are open to the public.
Q.

Well, if you could answer about the

one I'm asking about.
A.

I don't remember dates.

I don't -- I

17

couldn't tell you about dates, but I don't

18

recall -- I don't recall Commissioner Carrington

19

coming forward with a -- with an amendment to

20

the resolution of organization.

21

think that's right.

22

Q.

No, I don't

Was there a meeting -- well, first,

23

do you dispute that there was a committee

24

meeting on March 26th?

25

A.

1-800-325-3376

I don't know.

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Q.

Do you have any reason to say that

2

didn't happen, like you were out of the country

3

or --

4

A.

I wasn't out of the country.

5

Q.

Okay.

6

A.

I mean, there were committee

7

meetings, I guess, every other Tuesday.

8
9

Q.

But was there a meeting where you

came in with an amended redlined resolution of

10

organization where in an open public meeting you

11

passed it around to all the commissioners?

12

A.

Yes.

13

Q.

And in that meeting before you did

14

that passing out of your draft, had Commissioner

15

Carrington's idea of adjusting the committee

16

structure to have these other two committees

17

discussed?

18

A.

19
20

I don't remember -MR. WILSON:

Could I have that read

back?

21

(Whereupon, the question was read.)

22

MR. WILSON:

23

missing.

24
25

I think there's a word

MR. SMITH:
complete.

1-800-325-3376

It does seem less than

Why don't I -- if there's no

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objection, I'll just try to state it again.

2

A.

I didn't understand that.

3

Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

At this meeting where

4

you handed out your redline of the resolution,

5

had Commissioner Carrington discussed in that

6

meeting the idea of making committee adjustments

7

to add these other two committees?

8

A.

I don't remember.

9

Q.

Okay.

10

Do you deny that he did that

before you handed out your version?

11

A.

I don't -- I don't remember.

12

Q.

I understand.

13
14

I'm asking whether you

deny it or not.
A.

15

I don't remember.
MR. LOWE:

16

question.

17

or affirm it, so --

He's answered the

If he doesn't know, he can't deny it

18

MR. SMITH:

19

MR. LOWE:

20

press him to do so.

Okay.
It would be unfair to

21

(Whereupon, County Exhibit 8 was

22

marked for identification, a copy of

23

which is attached hereto.)

24
25

Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

Let me show you what

I'm going to ask to have marked as County

1-800-325-3376

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Exhibit 8.

2

exhibit.

3

Let me ask you to look at that

MR. SMITH:

And for the benefit of

4

Jay, this exhibit is four pages of type, and on

5

the front page it begins, "Now therefore be it

6

resolved by the Jefferson County Commission."

7

And there's a handwritten note on the right

8

corner of it that says "134 Carrington

9

Resolution."

10
11
12
13

Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

you get the water?
A.

No.

I'm -- I've got a little bit

over here.

14

MR. LOWE:

Y'all don't need to wait

15

on him, he'll be fine.

16

THE WITNESS:

17
18

So my question -- did

If I choke and hit the

floor, go get water.
Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

My question about

19

County Exhibit 8 is, if you look at that, does

20

it give you any recollection of whether that's

21

something that you had seen either in that

22

meeting -- well, first, in that meeting before

23

you handed out your version?

24
25

A.

This -- this does -- I've seen this

before, but I don't remember when I saw it and

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whether it was before or after, same time.

2

just don't remember the temporal flow of what

3

you're trying to ask me about.

4

Q.

I

Well, in the hearing -- the committee

5

meeting of April 12th, did you take issue, to

6

your recollection, with Commissioner Knight

7

saying y'all both had your ideas being advanced

8

in that meeting and -- and it became something

9

of a battle of ideas at that point?

10

MR. WILSON:

11

MR. LOWE:

Objection to form.
Object.

12

A.

13

was saying.

14

and broken and made no sense at all to me.

15

Still doesn't.

16

Q.

I didn't understand what Joe Knight
I couldn't -- it was just rambling

(BY MR. SMITH)

All right.

And so my

17

question, I guess, is when you handed yours out,

18

what was the context of it, what did you say as

19

you handed it out in this open meeting?

20

A.

Words to the effect that I'm -- let

21

me pass this report out to you that you -- that

22

I was asked to prepare and here it is.

23

wasn't -- that wasn't done as a random act of

24

something -- you know, I was doing that at a

25

request of a -- commissioners, more than one

1-800-325-3376

That

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commissioner.

2

(Whereupon, County Exhibit 9 was

3

marked for identification, a copy of

4

which is attached hereto.)

5

Q.

Let me ask you to look at what I'm

6

going to ask to have marked as County Exhibit

7

9.

8

if you'll take a second and let me know if that

9

appears to be the document that you handed out

10

in a committee meeting on or about March 26th,

11

2013?

And ask you to take a second -- Mr. Sewell,

12

A.

13

handed out.

14

don't recall the circumstance of who was -- who

15

said what, when, where at that meeting.

16

Q.

This appears to be a document that I
I don't recall the date.

I just

Well, let's put it at least in some

17

context whether you remember March 26th or not.

18

Can you confirm that was before Monday, April

19

1st?

20

A.

No.

I don't remember when -- in

21

March and April when committees met.

22

remember the dates -- I just don't remember,

23

David.

24
25

Q.

I don't

I'm sorry.
Well, but, you know, April the 2nd is

the day you've testified a great deal about and

1-800-325-3376

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that's a Tuesday, I'll represent to you.

2

Monday, April 1st, is the first day of April,

3

and I'm asking about a late March committee

4

meeting.

5

as you put that in context whether you can say

6

one way or the other whether you presented the

7

commission in an open committee meeting your

8

proposal about this amendment to the resolution

9

of organization?

So it seems -- I'd like to ask again

10

A.

Did I present it?

11

Q.

Did you present it before April 1st?

12

A.

I don't know.

13

Q.

You just don't know one way or the

14

other?

15
16

A.

I don't remember -- I don't remember

when the committees were meeting.

17
18

Yes.

Q.

Do you have any reason to believe

that you did this after the April 2nd memos?

19

A.

I don't know.

I don't remember when

20

the meeting -- when the committee meeting was or

21

this was passed out.

22

Q.

Well, let me ask it a different way,

23

then.

24

about performance deficiencies that's marked as

25

Sewell 3, after you got that did you ever

1-800-325-3376

After you got your April 2nd counseling

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present the commission -- did you ever present

2

the commission -- Sewell 3 is what I said.

3

A.

I'm sorry.

4

Q.

That's okay.

It's the April 2nd

5

counseling on -- according to the document,

6

performance deficiencies.

7

MR. WILSON:

8

MR. SMITH:

9

My apology, it's Sewell 2.

MR. WILSON:

I saw that here

somewhere.

14

MR. SMITH:

15

THE WITNESS:

16

MR. SMITH:

17

Are you okay?
Yeah, fine.
I mean, do you need water

before we keep going?

18
19

I'm

sorry.

12
13

I'm thinking that -- have

I said the number wrong?

10
11

3, here we go.

THE WITNESS:
Q.

No.

(BY MR. SMITH)

Okay.

Do you have

20

any recollection of providing a redlined amended

21

resolution of organization after the time when

22

you had counseling with Commissioners Carrington

23

and Brown on April 2nd?

24
25

MR. WILSON:
A.

1-800-325-3376

Objection to form.

I don't remember when I -- when the

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meeting was when I handed -- I'm sorry, I just

2

don't remember when the meeting was.

3

Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

All right.

So if the

4

-- if what Commissioner Knight was saying in his

5

statement here can be boiled down to there was a

6

meeting and both Carrington and Sewell presented

7

their thoughts on the resolution of

8

organization, if that's what he's getting at,

9

your testimony is that you don't have any

10

recollection at all of when that was?

11

A.

I don't have a recollection of when

12

that was, but the way you phrased your question

13

is not what he -- is not what he was getting

14

at.

That's not what happened.

15

Q.

Well, those are two different things.

16

A.

I don't think you understand what

17

happened.

18

Q.

Well, I wasn't there for sure.

19

A.

I was.

20

Q.

But I'm using the same meeting

I don't remember when it was.

21

information that was the subject this morning,

22

and so that's the way I'm trying to get into the

23

fact that there was a meeting.

24

don't remember when the meeting was, but you do

25

remember handing out your redlined amended

1-800-325-3376

So -- so you

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2

resolution of organization?
A.

I do -- I remember handing out -- you

3

know, drafting and handing out a -- this

4

exhibit, County Exhibit 9.

5

remember when it was.

6

Q.

All right.

I just don't

And can you confirm for

7

me that when you did that, it was the first time

8

you had ever submitted that document to the

9

client?

10

A.

To the county commission?

11

Q.

Yes.

12

A.

No, cannot confirm it.

13

Q.

You don't know one way or the other?

14

A.

No, I do know.

15

Q.

When was this distributed before?

16

A.

It had been discussed in executive

17
18

session prior to the meeting.
Q.

Well, I don't want to get into

19

executive session, so -- so we'll move to strike

20

that testimony.

21

that happened in executive session.

22
23

MR. WILSON:

Well, you asked -- you

asked the question.

24
25

Assert privilege over anything

MR. SMITH:

I know that, but that

doesn't change his responsibility where I don't

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know the answer to --

2

MR. WILSON:

He didn't tell you

3

anything about the substance, he simply answered

4

your question about whether it was discussed

5

with the commission before.

6

Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

All right.

So if the

7

question to you is whether you knew Commissioner

8

Carrington had some ideas about amending the

9

resolution of organization in late March, your

10
11
12
13

answer is yes or no?
A.

Commissioner Carrington was not

trying to amend the resolution of organization.
Q.

Okay.

So your testimony would be

14

that he had no ideas that he put forth in this

15

open meeting on March 26th about amending the

16

resolution of organization at all?

17

A.

That would be correct.

18

Q.

Okay.

And what you've got over there

19

as County Exhibit 8, does it relate to the

20

committee structure?

21

A.

It would -- it would -- if this, if

22

Exhibit 8 has been adopted, it would have

23

circumvented the resolution of organization.

24

didn't amend, it was -- if you look at it

25

carefully, it purported to amend the resolution

1-800-325-3376

It

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of organization without following the procedure

2

in the resolution of organization for amending

3

the resolution.

4

Q.

It was circumventing it.

I'm not saying that this was

5

presented as a motion.

6

that he asked for this to be approved in a

7

motion in this open meeting of March 26th?

8
9

A.

Do you have some memory

I think that what I would have to say

about what his intent was and what he expressed

10

to me would be covered by the attorney/client

11

privilege.

12

Q.

No, I think what I asked was in this

13

meeting of March 26th, wasn't there some motion

14

to approve this as an amendment?

15
16
17
18
19
20
21

A.

I think you would have to go back --

not as an amendment.
Q.

And so was this a discussion of ideas

about how to adjust the committee structure?
A.

There had been a -- I'm going to say

a very little bit about this.
Q.

Well, I don't want you to go to

22

privileged information.

23

March 26th and whether you can say whether or

24

not this was a part of a discussion on how to

25

amend the resolution and structure committees?

1-800-325-3376

I'm asking about the

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2
3

A.

It was not a discussion about how to

amend the resolution of organization.
Q.

Was it a discussion about the

4

committee arrangement in the resolution of

5

organization?

6

A.

No.

No, it was not.

It was quite

7

the opposite of that.

8

subject of discussion in an executive session.

9

Q.

10

And it had been the

I'll ask another question.
Now, in County Exhibit 9, in the open

11

meeting, do you remember -- and I'm talking

12

again on March 26th and you've said you don't

13

remember the day -- but the meeting where you

14

handed out your redlined version, do you

15

remember that it was an occasion where -- where

16

after you handed out yours that there was

17

discussion and then consensus that we'll review

18

this and then come back to it?

19

A.

I don't remember that.

20

Q.

Do you have any basis for denying it?

21

A.

Yes.

22

Q.

In that open committee meeting that

23

day, did you provide any recommendations in that

24

meeting for your version to be approved as read?

25

A.

1-800-325-3376

Not in that meeting.

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Q.

Did Commissioner Carrington's

2

document say anything explicit about not

3

complying with the county manager act?

4

A.

Which document?

5

Q.

County 8.

6

A.

I don't think so.

7
8
9

I don't think it

addressed the county manager act at all.
Q.

Did the -- did Mr. Carrington's

document say anything about not complying with

10

the Federal Employment Discrimination Consent

11

Decree?

12

A.

Exhibit Number 8?

13

Q.

Yes.

14

A.

I don't think it mentions the consent

15

decree.

16

Q.

Does the document that Mr. Carrington

17

submitted in that meeting, which I'm handing to

18

you as County Exhibit 8, did it recognize the

19

role of the county manager more than the

20

resolution of organization that was in place at

21

that time?

22

MR. WILSON:

Object to the form.

23

A.

I don't think so.

24

Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

25

Does the -- does the

existing resolution of organization provide for

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the county manager to have a committee?

2
3
4
5
6

MR. WILSON:

Objection.

Now I don't

know which -- what's the existing?
A.

Yeah, I don't know either.

I haven't

seen the current one.
Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

All right.

Your

7

version, which we've got marked as County

8

Exhibit 9, was a comprehensive amendment of the

9

resolution.

10
11
12
13

Is that a fair description?

MR. WILSON:
A.

Objection to form.

My version was a lawful amendment to

the resolution.
Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

What I mean to ask is

14

it was, from beginning to end, the version of

15

the existing resolution of organization with

16

redlining to the extent you thought it should be

17

changed?

18

A.

It was that.

19

Q.

But was it that?

20

A.

It -- it was that, but it was more

21
22

It was more than that.

than that.
Q.

Well, I'll ask the next question.

23

And your version changed the committee structure

24

within the commission from five committees to

25

one committee; is that right?

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A.

It proposed that.

2

Q.

Yes, I understand it was never --

3

A.

Approved.

4

Q.

-- acted on in the way of approval.

5

A.

Right.

6

Q.

And what did your version provide in

7

the way of an amendment for elected officials or

8

agencies that didn't report to the county

9

manager?

10

A.

The document that I drafted, that I

11

handed out that I don't remember when I handed

12

it out, I don't remember the day --

13
14
15

Q.

But you do acknowledge it was a

public meeting?
A.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, absolutely -- well,

16

when it was handed out, when this version was

17

handed out, it was a public meeting.

18

been prior executive sessions which we're not

19

going to get into.

20
21
22

Q.

There had

Well, which I didn't ask about and I

don't want to have testimony about.
A.

Okay.

This Exhibit 9 was -- was a

23

proper and lawful amendment to the resolution of

24

organization which was never approved.

25

Q.

1-800-325-3376

My question was did your draft

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provide any amendment for the elected officials

2

or the agencies that don't report to the county

3

manager?

4

A.

I don't remember.

5

Q.

Well, look if you would and let me

6

know what, if any, change of that sort was

7

made.

8
9

A.

If you look at the two exhibits, A

and B, that were lined through, I don't see any

10

reference at all to -- in the original version

11

or the revised version to elected officials

12

other than the county commission.

13

understand your question.

14

Q.

Maybe I don't

Well, did you make provision for the

15

fact that there are people in the county who

16

don't fall under the county manager and how --

17

who their appointing authorities would be or how

18

they would be fit within the organization?

19

A.

The -- this document would not be the

20

place, you would not put something in this

21

document about an elected official reporting to

22

the county manager in a situation where the

23

elected official doesn't report to the county

24

manager.

25

independently elected, either statutory or

1-800-325-3376

An elected official is an

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constitutional office in the State of Alabama,

2

and would not report to the county manager or

3

the county commission.

4

Q.

And so is that addressed in any way?

5

A.

I'm not following you.

6

Q.

The place of elected officials or

7

their relationship to the county committees or

8

who's a liaison to what, does it address those

9

in any way?

10

A.

The -- again the elected officials

11

are independently elected officials, they

12

don't --

13
14
15

Q.

But what about the agencies where

they are?
A.

If you have something in here you'd

16

like me to look at, I'll be happy to look at it,

17

if you can just direct me to it.

18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

Q.

You've struck a lot of language on

page six; is that right?
A.

There is -- there is redlined or

lined out language on page six.
Q.

And is any of that provided for

elsewhere or is that just all deleted?
A.

I don't remember -- without sitting

here and going through all of this, I don't know

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2
3
4

if it was moved or -- I don't remember.
Q.

Does the county manager act require

that the county have just one committee?
A.

The county manager act makes the

5

county manager directly and solely responsible

6

for all operating departments of the county.

7

Q.

That wasn't my question.

My question

8

was does the county manager act require that the

9

organization of the county be one that has only

10
11

one committee?
A.

It doesn't expressly state that, but

12

I think that is a fair inference of the act and

13

I think that is clearly the legislative intent.

14
15

Q.

So am I correct that your answer is,

no, it doesn't?

16

MR. WILSON:

Objection to form.

17

A.

My answer is my answer.

18

Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

But is it a correct

19

answer to say, no, the county manager act does

20

not address the number of committees that are

21

permissible?

22

MR. WILSON:

23

MR. LOWE:

Objection to form.
Asked and answered.

24

Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

25

A.

I've answered your question.

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Is that right?

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Q.

Can you point me to any provision in

2

the county manager act that addresses the number

3

of committees?

4

A.

No.

5

Q.

Can you point me to any provision in

6

the county manager act that specifies who can

7

chair a committee?

8

A.

No.

9

Q.

Can you point me to any provision in

10

the county manager act that says what a

11

committee's agenda may consist of or not?

12

A.

Yes.

13

Q.

Okay.

14

A.

I can't quote you the page and verse,

15

but the county manager is given the exclusive

16

and sole authority to supervise the operating

17

departments of Jefferson County.

18

means, among other things, that a county

19

commissioner does not have the authority to

20

supervise an operating department.

21

a committee in place that suggests that a county

22

commissioner is supervising an operating

23

department of the county is not -- is not

24

appropriate.

25

Q.

1-800-325-3376

To me that

And to have

I did not say anything in my

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questions about supervising anybody.

2

question was -- and I'm asking a different

3

question obviously rather than reading what I

4

just said, but does the county manager act have

5

rules about the way that the committees are

6

organized at all?

7
8
9

A.

My

I think -- I think the county manager

act informs how the committees are organized.
Q.

All right.

And by answering it as

10

you did, I assume that there's nothing explicit

11

there about committees, is there?

12

A.

The word -- I don't remember the word

13

"committee" being used in the county manager

14

act, I don't recall that.

15

Q.

All right.

And so would you agree

16

that changes made to the resolution of

17

organization as you have made them in County

18

Exhibit 9 are not the only way to bring the

19

resolution of organization into full compliance

20

with the county manager act?

21

A.

I would -- no, I don't know that I

22

would agree with that.

23

Exhibit Number 9 is "a" way.

24

"the" way, I haven't thought about that.

25

Q.

1-800-325-3376

I would agree that the
Whether it is

Well, that's my question.

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A.

But it's clearly in my judgment the

2

best way to bring it into compliance with the

3

law.

4

Q.

I'd suspect that since you handed it

5

out to everybody, but my question is, is it the

6

only way?

7
8

A.

I don't -- I would have to research

that and study that.

9

Q.

I don't know.

It may be.

And how can you make a case when the

10

county manager act says nothing about

11

committees, that perhaps the only way to be in

12

compliance with the county manager act is to

13

make changes so that it has one committee by

14

your design?

15

A.

Because when you take the label of

16

operating department away from the name of the

17

committee, you no longer have any practical way

18

to differentiate among the committees, and you

19

no longer have any need, practical need, to have

20

five separate committee meetings when one would

21

do.

22
23
24
25

It makes no sense.
Q.

These were ideas you chose to advance

in this open meeting; right?
A.

These -- well, this was an effort to

bring the resolution into compliance with the

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2

county manager law in the best possible way.
Q.

Does the county manager act prohibit

3

having a committee of the county manager's

4

domain for the county manager to chair?

5

prohibit that?

6

A.

Does it

The -- the county manager law does

7

not address a committee -- it doesn't address

8

committees for county managers.

9

Q.

And does the county manager act

10

prohibit having a committee of the county

11

attorney's domain for the county attorney to

12

chair?

13

A.

Again, the county manager law does

14

not address, to my memory, a committee for a

15

county -- it doesn't address it.

16

Q.

Now, looking at the transcript of the

17

April 12 proceedings of the administrative

18

services committee, let me read again -- and

19

everything I read from this is -- is unofficial

20

and prepared simply by my office, but I have

21

reviewed it and I'll represent to you that I did

22

my best.

23

In the context of Mr. Knight's,

24

Commissioner Knight's statements about this

25

March 26th meeting and the drafts being

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discussed, presented, handed out, you were given

2

an opportunity to respond and the response I'll

3

read.

4

compliance with the county manager law and need

5

to amend the resolution was one of a longer list

6

of items that I had finished going over with you

7

in an executive session.

8
9

You said in the hearing, the issue of

Now, did you tell the commissioners
before you said that that you were going to go

10

into privileged communications without

11

authorization?

12

MR. WILSON:

Object to the form of

13

the question.

14

he's told you he doesn't know the date as March

15

26th.

16

Commissioner Knight at the April 12th hearing or

17

meeting, whatever you want to call it, said

18

March 26th, you've asked an improper question.

19

You asked him several times and

Unless you're representing to me that

MR. LOWE:

No, now also it sounds

20

like he's insinuating that he did something

21

improper at this meeting by raising some

22

privileged information in an open meeting.

23

After he was terminated from his employment he

24

entered into an agreement where it washed away

25

any prior problems that may have been had.

1-800-325-3376

If

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we're going to sit here and rehash that, we're

2

leaving, because that has nothing to do with

3

this lawsuit.

4

Now, if you're talking about that's

5

one of the reasons he was terminated, then we

6

can get into that, but it wasn't on his list of

7

reasons or issues he had with him that

8

Mr. Carrington came up with.

9

point in going through this or insinuating that

10

Mr. Sewell did anything wrong because it has no

11

relevance to this case.

12

Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

I don't see any

I'll read the entire

13

response:

14

county manager law and need to amend the

15

resolution was one of a longer list of items

16

that I had finished going over with you in an

17

executive session on March 14th, and it was

18

canceled.

19

the executive session was canceled doesn't

20

change my obligation to inform you and tell you

21

what my advice is.

22

going to read another Rule of Professional

23

Conduct.

24

organization for a client, and specifically a

25

governmental organization.

1-800-325-3376

The issue of compliance with the

The fact that your -- the fact that

Let me read another, I'm

It involves a lawyer who has an

Before I read that

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to you, though, before I forget, let me tell you

2

that, you know, why was this a burning issue on

3

April 2nd.

4

Mr. Knight said yeah.

5

Then you said:

There are a lot,

6

Jefferson County's got a lot of burning issues

7

and all of them came across my desk in the

8

intervening period from March 14th and April

9

2nd, the other things that were the higher

10

claims.

11

Circuit brief which had to be substantially

12

revised and edited, which was done the week of

13

March 18th.

14

an audit opinion letter I had to do to Warren

15

Averett regarding the school's warrant fund.

16

There was the mediator's statement that we were

17

working on, plan docket we were trying to

18

prepare, disclosure statements we were trying to

19

get done, and all the other hundreds of things

20

that occupy my time day and night.

21

2nd when I finally got around and transmitted

22

the memo to you and that's just because there

23

were so many things ahead of it that were even

24

higher points.

25

1-800-325-3376

The buildup included our Eleventh

All that had to be done.

There was

It was April

So as I understand what you were

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saying in the public meeting, between a March

2

14th meeting that was canceled and April the 2nd

3

when a memo was sent you were busy with other

4

issues and it was April 2nd before you finally

5

got around and transmitted the memo.

6
7

MR. WILSON:
Q.

8

Objection to form.

(BY MR. SMITH)
MR. WILSON:

Objection to form.

9

A.

Which memo?

10

Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

11

14

The only one that you

wrote on April 2nd that I know of.

12
13

Is that true?

MR. WILSON:
A.

Objection to form.

No, there probably would have been

more memos on April 2nd.

15

Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

16

A.

There would have probably been more

17
18
19
20
21

I'm sorry?

than one memo.
Q.

Are you really saying you don't know

which one I'm talking about?
A.

I'm -- I'm assuming you're talking

about the April the 2nd memo to the county --

22

Q.

The privileged memo?

23

A.

-- to the county commission, the one

24
25

that's been redacted.
Q.

1-800-325-3376

No.

No.

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2

A.

No, no, I mean the one -- I'm sorry,

the one --

3

Q.

No, no.

4

A.

Yeah, I know which you're talking

5

The privileged memo --

about, the one delivered was that morning.

6

Q.

It was being talked about in the

7

April 12th hearing, so my question again is

8

between March 14th and April 2nd you were busy

9

with other issues and it was April 2nd before

10

you finally got around and transmitted the memo;

11

right?

12
13

A.

MR. LOWE:

Object to the form.

I'm lost.

I'm sorry.

Mr. Knight, if

14

I heard what you said, Mr. Knight brought up the

15

date of April 2nd in his question to me.

16
17

Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

Right?

He does make

reference to April 2nd.

18

A.

I don't -- yeah, I don't recall

19

referring to an April 2nd memo.

20

but I don't really understand what you're asking

21

me.

22

Q.

Maybe I did,

Well, let me try to do a better job.

23

Your statement in the opening proceedings to all

24

assembled was that the reason that the April 2nd

25

memo did -- went out when it did was that that's

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when you finally got around to it because there

2

were so many burning issues for the county to

3

deal with.

4

A.

Is that true?
I suppose it is.

I don't have any

5

reason to think that it isn't, if that's what I

6

said.

7

Q.

The delay from March 14th which you

8

mentioned in your statement as the date a

9

meeting was canceled, the delay was due to the

10

volume of major issues you had to handle; is

11

that right?

12

A.

13
14
15
16

19
20
21

I don't

have what you're reading from.
Q.

Well, I'm reading from questions that

I wrote up, so -A.

17
18

I don't have -- excuse me.

That's why I don't have them.
MR. LOWE:

That's why they're

confusing, too, apparently.
A.

I don't -- I'm sorry, I just don't

have it.
Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

Well, I'm sure I'm

22

not doing the greatest job, but I mean my

23

question should be clear and if it's not then

24

I'll ask it again.

25

A.

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I think it would be safe to say,

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David, that there was -- there were a multitude

2

of crises that had to be dealt with almost every

3

day for several years.

4

today in July of precise dates and moments and

5

times when meetings occurred, I just don't

6

remember.

7

access to records and things, but sitting here

8

today I don't remember the precise dates and

9

when something happened.

10

Q.

When -- I've lost track

I could reconstruct it if I had

What I'd like to confirm at this

11

moment is simply this:

12

2nd you weren't trying to get everyone in the

13

county courthouse to pay attention to the

14

compliance through revising the resolution.

15

was some -- everybody was busy, it came up in an

16

open meeting and -- and everybody was busy.

17

MR. WILSON:

18

MR. LOWE:

From March 14th to April

It

Objection to form.
Object to the form.

19

Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

Isn't that right?

20

A.

No, that's not right.

21

Q.

You just said that you were so busy

22

with so many crises between those two dates that

23

that's why you were delayed.

24
25

MR. WILSON:
Q.

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Objection to form.

(BY MR. SMITH)

Isn't that right?

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A.

No.

The -- the assumption behind the

2

question is not right and the question omits

3

facts.

4

Q.

Well, I -- you know, I don't envy me

5

deposing you or anybody deposing a lawyer, but

6

the fact is that I'm trying to confirm that

7

there wasn't some big defiance going on at this

8

point, there was discussion going on about

9

revising the resolution, wasn't there?

10

MR. WILSON:

11

MR. LOWE:

12

A.

Objection to form.
Objection.

There had been discussion going on

13

about doing that very thing well in advance of

14

March 14th.

15

Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

Now, was the

16

importance of bringing the resolution of

17

organization into compliance any different on

18

April the 1st, 2013 than it was in October 2011

19

when Tony Petelos started?

20
21
22
23
24
25

A.

I don't think so.

There was a

practical difference.
Q.

Well, I understand the time --

passing of time, but -A.

The county manager on the first day,

week, month, six weeks was not --

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Q.

Can I ask you to wait for a question?

2

A.

Sure.

3

Q.

Is that fair?

4

A.

I'm trying to answer your prior

5
6

question, but if you would like to, that's fine.
Q.

Now, you were asked questions today,

7

this morning, about the -- the memo of April 2nd

8

that you delivered and -- and then getting

9

summoned to a meeting that same day, I think you

10

said six hours later.

11

correctly?

Am I recalling that

12

A.

That's right.

13

Q.

And is it your testimony that

14

Commissioner Carrington decided for the first

15

time that morning when he got your memo that you

16

were not performing your position to his

17

satisfaction, prepared a two-page memo outlining

18

other deficiencies, arranged Commissioner

19

Brown's attendance and participation in the

20

meeting and met with you for three and a half to

21

four hours about his concerns?

22

testimony?

Is that your

23

A.

My testimony is my testimony.

24

Q.

Well, is what I just summarized your

25

belief?

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MR. LOWE:

Well, I object to the

2

form.

Why do you need to summarize his

3

testimony when he's testified?

4

MR. SMITH:

5

MR. LOWE:

Well, I'm not -You just said I summarized

6

your testimony for you and do you agree with my

7

summary, and the answer is no.

8
9
10

Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

Your theory is that

the April 2nd memo led to an outcome; is that
right?

11

A.

It clearly did, yes.

Yeah.

12

Q.

And the outcome that you've talked

13

about in part was the counseling on that same

14

afternoon; right?

15

MR. WILSON:

16

MR. LOWE:

Objection to form.
Objection.

In part.

17

A.

In part.

18

Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

19

you is this:

20

that before receipt of a memo from you on April

21

the 2nd, 2013, that Commissioner Carrington was

22

entirely satisfied and pleased with your

23

performance as county attorney?

24
25

A.

And so my question to

Is it your testimony here today

Well, if you believe what he said in

the newspaper in October, November, whenever, I

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would have to believe he was telling the truth

2

in November of the prior year.

3

that was the first I'd heard of any concern that

4

he had about my job performance from him or

5

anyone else.

6

Q.

7

Do you have Sewell 3?
MR. WILSON:

Here you go.

8

A.

Yes.

9

Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

10

I don't know --

Thank you.

Am I correct that this is the memo

11

that you got on the morning of April the 8th of

12

2013?

13

A.

Yes.

14

Q.

And that you were put on leave with

15

pay; is that right?

16

A.

That's right.

17

Q.

So as of the point of going on this

18

leave, was there any financial sacrifice of any

19

kind?

20

A.

For me?

21

Q.

For you, yes.

22

A.

Well, it was leave with pay.

23

Q.

So no benefits or any other --

24

anything else, nothing else was taken away while

25

you were on leave when you went on leave; is

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that right?

2

A.

Well, I mean access to my office,

3

access to my personal stuff, things of that

4

nature were inherent in this.

5

Q.

You were given access to your office

6

to the extent you needed access to any personal

7

items; right?

8

A.

9

in.

I was given the opportunity to get

I mean, it was -- it was clear -- it was

10

clear to me when I got this on April 8th that I

11

was going to be fired.

12

been made simply because this document told me,

13

I think, that -- yeah, please let me know if

14

you want to schedule a mutually convenient time

15

to remove my items from the office.

16

very clear to me that the effort was going to be

17

made to terminate me that morning.

18

Q.

The decision had already

That seemed

On Monday, April 8th, you've

19

described some of what went on that morning.

20

you have a concealed weapon permit?

21

A.

I do.

22

Q.

And do you carry a concealed weapon

23

at any time?

24

A.

25

I have -- I keep one or sometimes I

have one in my vehicle.

1-800-325-3376

Do

I've never had one in

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my vehicle on county property.

2

one in the courthouse, I've never had one on my

3

body, on my person, while on duty as the county

4

attorney or as assistant county attorney.

5

Q.

I've never had

But carrying a weapon doesn't make

6

someone an automatic threat that they're about

7

to use it, does it?

8

MR. LOWE:

9

speculate.

10
11

That's asking him to

A.

I can't tell you what's in someone

else's mind, I don't know.

12

Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

Well, you've made

13

emphasis, as I heard you, about the security

14

guard who came down there being armed.

15

MR. WILSON:

Objection to form.

16

A.

Just fact.

17

Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

It is just a fact.

18

So what I'm asking you is, isn't he armed all

19

day?

20
21

MR. LOWE:
point to this?

David, I mean, is there a

I mean, I --

22

MR. SMITH:

23

MR. LOWE:

Yeah, there is a point.
Well, ask him a direct

24

question about guns or knives or bombs or

25

something.

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Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

Well, that is a

2

direct question, does he wear his gun in the

3

regular performance of his duties at the

4

courthouse?

5

A.

That security guard?

6

Q.

Yes.

7

A.

I guess.

8
9

I suppose.

He had it on

that day.
Q.

There's no reason to imply that -- no

10

reason to think that he armed himself to come

11

excuse you from the property?

12
13
14
15

A.

Other than the fact that he was

there.
Q.

I'm saying that he armed himself to

do that?

16

MR. LOWE:

I think the point is they

17

didn't need an armed guard or guard or any

18

escort, period.

19

the letter.

20

I mean, if you've got some points to make with

21

this witness, let's make them.

22

ridiculous.

The woman could have handed him

Now, I don't -- it's getting late,

That's

23

MR. SMITH:

I have questions.

24

MR. LOWE:

Okay.

25

MR. SMITH:

I'm continuing to ask

1-800-325-3376

Ask them.

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them and I'm addressing things that only came up

2

this morning.

3

MR. LOWE:

I don't think there was

4

any emphasis on the fact that he was -- he may

5

have been intimidated by someone that was armed.

6
7

MR. SMITH:
Q.

I disagree.

(BY MR. SMITH)

Did you understand

8

from your April 8th memo that you got that the

9

county was reminding you of the attorney/client

10
11
12
13

privilege?
A.

I understood that David Carrington

was saying whatever David Carrington said here.
Q.

14

Excuse me -- pardon me.
In the April 8th memo it says, during

15

this time period you are instructed to have no

16

verbal, written or other contact with any county

17

employees or any professionals hired by the

18

county, including but not limited to the

19

county's legal staff and the county's outside

20

legal counsel.

21

received the memo?

22

A.

Did you read that when you first

Not when I first received the memo.

23

I read it later in the day.

24

sentence, put the memo in my vehicle and spoke

25

to the security officer and -- and Demetrius and

1-800-325-3376

I read the first

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told them that I knew they were probably very

2

embarrassed to be doing this, and I left.

3

read the remainder of it later in the day.

4

Q.

And I

In the April the 12th, 2013 hearing,

5

Commissioner Carrington spoke at the beginning.

6

Let me read you what he said.

7

some questions about it.

8

starting at the end of the first sentence, so

9

I'm going to start with the second sentence:

Okay?

I want to ask you
And I'm

10

Mr. Sewell was placed on administrative leave

11

with pay because a majority of the commissioners

12

felt like he had not acted in the best interests

13

of his client, the county, in bankruptcy

14

settlement negotiations with our creditors.

15

When placed on administrative leave with pay on

16

Monday, April the 8th, 2013, Mr. Sewell was

17

instructed in writing to have no verbal, written

18

or other contact with any county employees or

19

any professionals hired by the county, including

20

but not limited to the county's legal staff and

21

the county's outside legal counsel, yet Monday

22

evening after being placed on administrative

23

leave with pay earlier that morning, Mr. Sewell

24

instructed the county's outside counsel that

25

they were not authorized to attend a previously

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scheduled creditor negotiation session in

2

Dallas, the very next day, Tuesday, April 9th,

3

that they were not authorized to negotiate with

4

the creditors on behalf of the county even

5

though Commissioners Stephens and Knight would

6

be participating in the negotiations, and they

7

would not be paid for any of their legal fees if

8

they attended the negotiations in Dallas.

9

Now, did you hear what I read?

10

A.

Yeah.

11

Q.

Okay.

And my question is I'm not

12

aware in the committee meeting of April 12th of

13

your denying that allegation.

14

allegation true?

Is this

15

A.

What is the allegation?

16

Q.

That on the night of that -- on the

17

night of April the 8th at 9:30 p.m. Central

18

Daylight Time, that you made such communications

19

to the county's outside counsel.

20

isn't it?

21

A.

That's true,

You -- I'm sorry, I'm confused.

22

You're asking me if something that David

23

Carrington read on April the 12th which

24

referenced the reason that I was put on

25

administrative leave the morning of April the

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8th was because of something I did the evening

2

of April the 8th?

3

Q.

No.

4

A.

Because that's what I thought you

5

said, and I don't understand how I could be put

6

on leave on the morning of April the 8th for

7

something that had not occurred.

8
9

Q.

That was not my question.

If I

phrased it that way, that was not my intention.

10

I was reading what he had read in the hearing.

11

My question is simply this:

12

meeting the subject was raised that after you

13

were put on leave on the morning of the 8th,

14

that on that night of the 8th, some 12 to 14

15

hours later at 9:30 p.m. that night, that you

16

did communicate and issue directives to outside

17

counsel as Mr. Carrington said in his statement?

18

A.

In the committee

Not as Mr. Carrington said in his

19

statement.

His statement contained

20

inaccuracies.

21

Q.

But putting aside what Mr. Carrington

22

said, is it true that you contacted the county's

23

outside counsel on the night of April the 8th at

24

9:30 p.m. and told them that they were not

25

authorized to make any settlement officer --

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offer to any GO creditor or warrant holder?

2
3

A.

the county's outside attorneys.

4
5

It's true that I responded to some of

Q.

Is it true that you said what I just

read?

6

A.

What you just read was part of

7

discussions that had gone on.

And it's not true

8

that this was not addressed at all in the April

9

12th hearing.

It was addressed, but it was

10

addressed in a way that would not reveal what

11

communications occurred between the outside

12

lawyers and me.

13

part of that, David, was -- was the discussion

14

on April 12 about what a lawful order is and is

15

not.

16

Q.

And that was part of the --

And I want to ask about that.

I'm

17

just -- before we go to your view on those

18

rules, I just wanted to get the facts there.

19

Did you communicate with those lawyers?

20

THE WITNESS:

21

(COUNSEL AND WITNESS CONFERRING.)

22

MR. LOWE:

Let me talk to you.

All right.

If you're

23

going to question him about communications with

24

outside counsel, are you going to waive the

25

privilege on it, on what his answer may be?

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I mean, you've sat here and you've read certain

2

alleged comments that were made to and from

3

these outside lawyers.

4

this or --

5

MR. SMITH:

Are we going to get into

All I have done is we've

6

provided this transcript to the plaintiffs --

7

not the transcript, the recording.

8
9

MR. LOWE:
question.

Well, it's a simple

Since I'm asking the questions now,

10

it's a simple question.

You want to get into

11

this?

12

you have to waive the privilege.

13

these questions about conversations with outside

14

counsel, he's going to have to invoke the

15

privilege.

If you do and you want him to answer it,

16

MR. SMITH:

Otherwise, all

And is that different

17

than the statements that he made in the hearing

18

that day?

19

MR. LOWE:

He was asked to respond to

20

things during the hearing.

21

can ask him to confirm or deny the statement he

22

made in the hearing, but if you're asking

23

specific questions about conversations he had

24

with outside counsel at a particular place and

25

time, then I think he's going to have to invoke

1-800-325-3376

I don't know.

You

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the privilege or either you're going to waive

2

it.

3
4
5

MR. SMITH:

Well, we'll withdraw that

question.
Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

The -- do you

6

remember what your response was in the meeting

7

as to whether you did make contact with outside

8

counsel?

9

A.

My recollection of what was said in

10

the meeting on April the 12th was -- was no

11

discussion at all about any substantive contact

12

or discussion between me and outside counsel.

13

That's my memory of it.

14
15
16

Q.

And so did you in the meeting deny

doing it?
A.

I don't -- I don't recall whether I

17

did or didn't.

18

there or here communications between me and the

19

county's outside counsel.

20
21
22

Q.

I did not want to discuss either

And so -- so you didn't admit it or

deny it?
A.

I think I made a statement.

I don't

23

-- I'm not positive of this, but I think I made

24

a statement that I was not going to address the

25

substance of any communications between the

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outside counsel and me.

2

words to that effect.

3

MR. LOWE:

I think I said that, or

I think Mr. Carrington

4

opened the hearing by making that accusation,

5

because I was in the hearing.

6
7

MR. SMITH:

Well, that's what I just

read.

8

MR. LOWE:

9

accusations.

10

denied them.

11

Q.

I know.

He made the

I don't think he confirmed them or

(BY MR. SMITH)

Well, I'm going one

12

question at a time to the -- the -- and so my

13

question was, did you deny it in the hearing

14

as -- as a contact that you made on the night of

15

April the 8th?

16

A.

My recollection, what I said in the

17

hearing had to do with the validity of this

18

purported order that he had given me.

19

recall trying to explain how an order can be

20

unlawful and how a lawyer cannot be ordered to

21

do something that violates the Professional

22

Rules of Conduct.

23

There was a lot of discussion of that.

24
25

Q.

And I

That was not a lawful order.

What I mean to be asking is, in the

meeting you explained why you did it and why you

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thought it was appropriate to do it; isn't that

2

correct?

3
4

A.

I don't -- I don't think that's

correct at all.

5

MR. LOWE:

Well, if you have a

6

transcript, don't you think that would be

7

helpful?

8
9

MR. SMITH:
foundation for --

10
11

MR. LOWE:

MR. SMITH:

MR. LOWE:

MR. SMITH:

17

MR. LOWE:
on hard.

MR. SMITH:

I am coming on, I'm coming

All right.

Should we

take a break?

21
22

Come on, come on.

Get -- cut to it.

19
20

Show him the transcript,

read it, if you want to know what he said.

16

18

Well, but the transcript

is --

14
15

You laid the foundation,

there was a hearing, there's a transcript.

12
13

I'm trying to lay a

MR. LOWE:

No, we don't need to take

a break, we need to terminate this deposition.

23

MR. SMITH:

Well, then let me ask my

24

questions.

25

know these are appropriate questions.

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These are appropriate questions, you

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2

MR. LOWE:

It's redundant,

repetitive, irrelevant.

3

MR. SMITH:

Bad lawyering, stupid

4

counsel, you can put any label you want to on

5

it, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't keep going

6

ahead.

7

MR. LOWE:

I'm not calling you that.

8

I wouldn't signify anyone that.

9

MR. SMITH:

10

MR. LOWE:

Well, I -And don't -- look, you're

11

making similar insinuations to things he did and

12

that's -- that's not what we're doing.

13
14

MR. SMITH:

MR. LOWE:

MR. SMITH:

18

MR. LOWE:

Good.

Good.

And get the truth out of

him and let's go.

20
21

I want you to get to the

point and ask whatever you want.

17

19

I've

asked --

15
16

No, that's not.

MR. SMITH:

Good.

A straight answer

would be helpful.

22

MR. LOWE:

Well, you got to ask a

23

straight question, you can't ask these

24

convoluted, rambling questions.

25

MR. SMITH:

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Well, come on, Clay.

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2
3

MR. LOWE:

Come on, David.

You come

on.
Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

Mr. Sewell, in the

4

meeting, you've discussed here today that you

5

talked about an unlawful order; is that right?

6

A.

Yes.

7

Q.

And it was your judgment that being

8

told not to talk to outside counsel was an

9

unlawful order; is that right?

10

A.

It was my judgment that an order that

11

had on its face or in its effect a directive for

12

me to violate the Rules of Professional Conduct

13

is unlawful and is not to be followed.

14

Q.

Well, I'd rather get a direct answer

15

and then allow you to explain.

Were you saying

16

that the order in the April 8th memo was such an

17

unlawful order as it pertains to not having

18

contact with outside counsel?

19

A.

I believe I said that.

20

Q.

And so am I correct that because of

21

your application of the rules of ethics and

22

professional conduct, that you had that conduct

23

anyway, that conduct with outside -- contact

24

with outside counsel, excuse me.

25

A.

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I -- outside counsel contacted me all

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2
3

through the day of April 8th.
Q.

And so is that a yes, that you had

contact?

4

A.

It is what it is.

5

Q.

Well, I mean, I know it is what it is

6

you say.

7

asking did you contact them?

8
9

You say they contacted you.

A.

I'm

I -- I answered a question, several

questions, from outside lawyers all day long

10

that were contacting me with requests for what

11

is going on and what are we supposed to do.

12

Q.

And did you -- am I correct, then,

13

that you didn't comply with the directive of

14

April 8th?

15

A.

The directive of April 8th put me on

16

administrative leave with pay.

17

left the courthouse.

18

Q.

I complied, I

I mean in terms of the paragraph that

19

says don't have contact with the lawyers, you

20

did have contact with outside legal counsel?

21
22

A.

I spoke to lawyers several times

during the day.

23

Q.

After you got the leave notice?

24

A.

Yes.

25

Q.

And did those contacts continue up

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until 9:30 that night?

2

A.

I don't remember what time they

3

continued to.

4

Q.

5

on that late?

6

A.

Okay.

Would you deny that they went

I don't know.

I spoke with county

7

commissioners calling me on April the 8th, and

8

county employees and county department heads,

9

all of whom were calling asking for guidance

10

about what to do with a particular matter.

11

not believe that it's a lawful order to order me

12

not to talk to my clients or to the lawyers that

13

I supervise.

14

commissioner acting alone has no such authority.

15

Q.

I do

I don't -- I think one

And is there any documentation,

16

without getting into its content, is there any

17

documentation on April the 8th, before you had

18

contact with outside counsel on the subject of

19

this objection you had to the instructions in

20

the memo?

21

A.

I don't understand your question.

22

Q.

Did you -- is there any evidence of

23

your objection to the lawfulness of this

24

directive other than you saying it now?

25

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MR. WILSON:

Objection to form.

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A.

Let's just say that April the 8th,

2

Exhibit Number 3, was not the first time I had

3

been given a purported instruction to not talk

4

to or withhold information from other of my

5

clients or some of the county's lawyers.

6

didn't consider it then, I don't consider it now

7

to be lawful.

8

Q.

9
10

(BY MR. SMITH)

And I

This memo doesn't say

anything about withholding information, does it?
A.

It says you are instructed to have no

11

verbal, written or other contact.

12

broadly, if I'm called and asked a question, I'm

13

not to answer the question.

14

Q.

Applied

Is it correct that after your meeting

15

with Commissioners Carrington and Brown on April

16

the 2nd, that you had contact -- without getting

17

into the content of it, that you had contact

18

with outside counsel that was contrary to an

19

order given to you?

20

A.

There was no order given to me on

21

April 2nd.

I'm sorry, you're confusing me with

22

your date, you said April 2nd.

23

Q.

I did.

24

A.

I don't understand your question.

25

Q.

On the April 11th transcript, still

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in this opening statement, the following is said

2

by Commissioner Carrington:

3

first time that Mr. Sewell had tried to

4

arbitrarily stop previously scheduled bankruptcy

5

settlement negotiation to the detriment of the

6

county.

7

six days earlier on Tuesday, April 2nd, that led

8

a majority of the commissioners to decide to

9

place Mr. Sewell on administrative leave with

This is not the

In fact, there was a similar event just

10

pay.

Commissioner Brown and I met with

11

Mr. Sewell for several hours in the afternoon of

12

Tuesday, April 2nd.

13

had a lengthy discussion about Mr. Sewell's

14

improper attempt to arbitrarily stop bankruptcy

15

negotiations in December 2012.

16

2012, during the first afternoon of an intense

17

three-day negotiating session with a significant

18

number of our creditors in New York City,

19

Mr. Sewell instructed our outside counsel to

20

stop negotiations, even though Commissioner

21

Stephens and I were present and actively

22

involved and some progress was being made.

23

Fortunately our outside counsel convinced

24

Mr. Sewell later that evening that his

25

instructions were not in the best interests of

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During our conversation we

On December 11,

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the county and the negotiations proceeded for

2

the next few days.

3
4

Did you deny that in the committee
meeting of April 12, 2013?

5

A.

Did I deny what?

6

Q.

Those facts that involved you?

7

MR. WILSON:

8

MR. LOWE:

9

MR. SMITH:

MR. LOWE:

MR. SMITH:

15

MR. LOWE:

17

You said do you deny those

facts.

14

16

Yes, those accusations.

I asked if he denied it.

12
13

Those -- do you mean

accusations?

10
11

Objection to form.

I first said -Look -- listen, do you

have an answer to whatever it is he asked?
A.

I don't recall, sitting here today,

18

what dates or times I may have given

19

instructions to outside counsel about

20

negotiations.

21

occurred frequently.

22

Q.

I mean, that's something that

(BY MR. SMITH)

The next thing said

23

in the hearing transcript is that during the

24

April 2nd conversation -- April 2nd

25

conversation -- Mr. Sewell was clearly told and

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he acknowledged that he was the attorney and

2

that the county represented by the commissioners

3

was the client.

4

frankly shocked to learn that several hours

5

later Mr. Sewell arbitrarily canceled a

6

previously scheduled general obligation debt

7

settlement conversation at 10:00 a.m. the next

8

morning, Wednesday, April 3rd.

I was disappointed and quite

9

In the committee meeting of April

10

12th, 2013, did you make any denial to that

11

statement?

12

A.

Which part of the statement?

13

Q.

Any part of it or all of it.

14

A.

I don't remember.

15

MR. SMITH:

16

THE WITNESS:

17

MR. WILSON:

About how long do you

MR. SMITH:

You know, I don't know,

18

Can we take a break?
Sure.

expect?

19
20

but I'm not going to be trying to go the seven

21

hours, there's no doubt about that.

22
23

MR. LOWE:

took was 35, 40 minutes.

24
25

Well, the last break you

MR. SMITH:

Yeah, I'm going to do

better this time.

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MR. LOWE:

Does that mean more?

2

MR. SMITH:

No, of course not.

3

MR. ADELSTEIN:

4

definite time?

5
6

Why don't we set a

MR. SMITH:
enough.

Sure.

No, that's fair

Let's say 15 minutes.

7

MR. ADELSTEIN:

8

(Whereupon, a short recess was had,

9

4:39 p.m. - 4:53 p.m.)
(BY MR. SMITH)

Thank you.

10

Q.

Let me know when

11

you're ready.

12

A.

I'm good.

13

Q.

Was one of the concerns about your

14

style expressed to you by Commissioner

15

Carrington in the meeting with Commissioner

16

Brown about how aggressive and seemingly

17

motivated by self-interest you were at times?

18

Was that a topic presented to you?

19

A.

No, not that I recall.

20

Q.

In the committee meeting of April the

21

12th, did you say in one context, this is my

22

instructions, if I say we need to go neutral, we

23

need to go neutral, when I say speed up, we need

24

to speed up.

25

1-800-325-3376

Do you remember saying?

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2

A.

Vaguely.

I don't remember the

context of it.

3

(Whereupon, County Exhibit 10 was

4

marked for identification, a copy of

5

which is attached hereto.)

6

Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

Before we look at

7

County Exhibit 10, as I recall your testimony

8

earlier about the privileged memo of April 2nd,

9

you said that the names of the senders on that

10

memo are you, Theo Lawson, Ted Hosp and Grace

11

Murphy.

12

Murphy, but is that your memory of the four

13

names of who sent that memo?

And you were less than sure about Grace

14

A.

Yes.

15

Q.

And is that the memo that your theory

16

is led to your separation?

17

A.

Yes.

18

Q.

And have any of the other three been

19

separated from their job assignment with the

20

county?

21

A.

Yes.

22

Q.

Mr. Lawson still works for the

23

county, doesn't he?

24

A.

Yeah, he does.

25

Q.

And so your colleague in the county

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attorney's office who was on the memo is still

2

performing the same job as before; right?

3

A.

I don't know if he's performing --

4

he's still employed.

5

performing the same --

I don't know if he's

6

Q.

You don't know what he does?

7

A.

Right.

It's my understanding that

8

Ted Hosp, who was the lead outside lawyer at

9

your law firm, has been taken off the case.

10

I may be wrong about that.

11

Q.

Do you have any evidence of that?

12

A.

I do, but I think it would be

13

privileged.

14

Q.

15

He's still of record in the case and

he's moved to Montgomery.

16

A.

Okay.

17

Q.

Do you -- and Ms. Murphy is here with

18

us today; is that right?

19

A.

She's sitting in the room with us.

20

Q.

So according to your testimony, four

21

people sent the memo and one got fired?

22
23

MR. WILSON:
A.

Objection to form.

And the other -- other three got

24

their relationship and representing the county

25

in this case significantly altered, is my

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2

understanding.
Q.

But again, you know --

(BY MR. SMITH)

Are you the only one

3

who's been terminated from employment of the

4

people who sent the memo?

5

A.

As far as I know.

6

Q.

All right.

Let me ask you to look at

7

County Exhibit 10.

Is this the agreement that

8

represents the terms of your settlement with the

9

county?

10

A.

Appears to be.

11

Q.

And you were in this April 12th

12

committee meeting that we've talked about during

13

your testimony today when the beginning of this

14

deal was struck; is that right?

15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22

A.

Well, when -- when the need for an

agreement was first broached, yes.
Q.

And then the broad financial terms

were outlined; right?
A.

Well, the broad terms generally were

outlined.
Q.

At the end of the April 13th

committee -- that was really my question.

23

A.

April 12.

24

Q.

Excuse me, April 12, 2013 meeting;

25

right?

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A.

The -- yeah.

2

Q.

All right.

Now, I want to ask you

3

about the context in which that occurred.

4

correct that this committee, the administrative

5

services committee, when it takes action it's to

6

be referred on to the full commission in a

7

regular full commission meeting; is that right?

8
9

A.

Is it

In -- in the normal course of things,

that would be the normal course of operations.

10

Q.

Yeah.

11

A.

Of course, there was nothing normal

12
13

And so in this meeting --

about this event.
Q.

But in the meeting of April the 12th,

14

the discussion was had and then a vote was

15

taken; is that right?

16

A.

There was a vote taken.

17

Q.

And the vote in the committee was to

18

consider a resolution to terminate your

19

employment for cause; is that right?

20

A.

I think so.

21

Q.

And --

22

A.

Although I never saw -- I never

23

saw -- I don't recall having seen any document.

24

I just don't know -- I don't know that.

25

I think there must have been something to vote

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I mean,

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on but I don't think I ever saw it.

2

Q.

If your employment had been

3

terminated for cause, it would have had the

4

effect of denying or nullifying or preventing

5

the payment of the retirement conversion

6

benefit; is that right?

7

A.

No.

8

Q.

Well, if it were for cause and that

9

I don't believe that it would.

were upheld as the state of things, if that were

10

the outcome, does it have any effect on your

11

retirement conversion benefit at all?

12

A.

I don't think that it does.

13

Q.

So your testimony today is that at

14

the end of the committee meeting on April 12th

15

when they voted to pass a resolution

16

recommending that your employment be terminated

17

for cause, that you were not in any peril of

18

having the approximate nine-month salary

19

continuation period be pulled away and not owed

20

to you?

21

A.

22
23

Is that your testimony?
Not my -- my testimony is what I

said.
Q.

Well, I'm asking -- why I'm seeking

24

clarification is, are you saying that it wasn't

25

at risk with that vote?

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A.

I told you -- you asked me the

2

question, I told you what I thought.

3

whether it was at risk or not or who might have

4

thought it was at risk, I mean, I -- I don't

5

know what other people were thinking.

6

Q.

No, I'm not asking what other people

7

were thinking.

8

at risk potentially?

9

A.

I didn't -- did you think it was

Well, everything was at risk

10

potentially.

11

Q.

12

I don't --

Including the retirement conversion

benefit in the face of that vote; right?

13

A.

Potentially.

14

Q.

And so the resolution that was made

15

after the vote that -- in which you kept the

16

retirement conversion benefit was -- was that

17

item that possibly was at risk; is that right?

18

A.

I don't know.

I --

19

Q.

The retirement conversion benefit is

20

paid to you under your severance agreement; is

21

that right?

22

A.

That's right.

23

Q.

That's my term.

It's called

24

agreement, what we've marked as County Exhibit

25

10.

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So other than the retirement

2

conversion benefit, were you paid any money

3

as -- in your settlement deal?

4

A.

I believe so.

5

Q.

And I'm including in the retirement

6

conversion benefit there the vacation pay, which

7

is some -- some number of weeks, I think; is

8

that right?

9

A.

Right.

10

Q.

So other than that amount, whatever

11

that is, there wasn't any other money paid to

12

you in the context of your involuntarily

13

retiring, was there?

14

A.

Not that I'm aware of.

15

Q.

And were you represented by counsel

16

on April the 12th personally?

17
18

A.

represented or not.

19
20

I don't know if I was officially

Q.

Your counsel here today, Mr. Lowe,

was with you that day; is that right?

21

A.

He was in the room.

23

Q.

He was there as a colleague, friend?

24

A.

He was there.

25

Q.

All right.

22

He wasn't with

me.

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And did you have any

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thought that you had a claim as some sort of

2

whistle blower?

3

A.

When?

4

Q.

April 12th, the day that this deal

5
6
7
8
9

was made?
A.

I don't recall when I might have had

a particular thought.
Q.

In the settlement you weren't paid

any money separate from involuntary retirement

10

in the sense of different money for other

11

claims, were you?

12

A.

No.

13

Q.

And as a lawyer, you're well versed

14

in what rights you may or may not have; is that

15

right?

16

A.

I -- I'm a lawyer.

17

Q.

But your -- your honest assessment

18
19
20
21

would be that you're a good lawyer, isn't it?
A.

I'm a lawyer.

I'm not here to boast

or brag or denigrate or anything else.
Q.

All right.

If you look at paragraph

22

five of the County Exhibit 10, am I correct that

23

you have received no greater benefits, rights or

24

privileges than anyone who takes involuntary

25

retirement?

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2
3

A.

I'm not aware that I've received any

additional, extra, greater things.
Q.

All right.

Paragraph eight of County

4

Exhibit 10 provides confirmation of your

5

professional responsibility and imposes

6

contractual consequences for a breach of that;

7

is that right?

8

MR. WILSON:

9

MR. LOWE:

Objection to form.
Asks for a legal

10

conclusion.

11

this case or -- what's the relevance of going

12

through his agreement?

13

going to contest it for some reason, are you?

14
15

MR. SMITH:

MR. LOWE:

I'm getting so close to

I know, but this is

important.

18
19

Are you -- you're not

being finished.

16
17

Are we contesting his agreement in

MR. SMITH:

It is important,

absolutely.

20

MR. LOWE:

I mean, he has an

21

agreement with the county.

22

questioning the validity of it, are you?

23

MR. SMITH:

24

MR. LOWE:

25

You're not

Oh, no.
You're not questioning

whether he's complied with it, are you?

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MR. SMITH:

2

ask questions, not answer them.

3

questions --

4

MR. LOWE:

5

litigation.

6

his life.

7

Well, today's my day to

Questions relevant to this

We're not here to open the door to

MR. SMITH:

You produced this

8

document, so it's clearly --

9

MR. LOWE:

It's a public record.

10

MR. SMITH:

11

scope of what we're here about.

12

And these are

MR. LOWE:

I'm saying it's in the

I don't see it and I don't

13

believe the plaintiffs' attorney would agree to

14

that, but, you know, finish up.

15

I want to know if you're contesting his

16

compliance with this agreement.

17

MR. SMITH:

Ask him --

And I want to know

18

whether you're instructing him not to answer my

19

questions --

20
21

MR. LOWE:

Did you hear me

say that?

22

MR. SMITH:

23

MR. LOWE:

24

No, no.

-- unless I answer you.
No, I'm asking you a

question.

25

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MR. SMITH:

I know, I'm saying --

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MR. LOWE:

2

it, though, are you?

3

MR. SMITH:

4

You're not going to answer

I'm trying to get

finished and I'm close.

5

MR. LOWE:

Well, let's make a point.

6

Let's -- this has nothing to do with this case.

7

All you're doing is berating him about an

8

agreement --

9
10

MR. SMITH:

That is not true.

That

is not true.

11

MR. LOWE:

12

MR. SMITH:

13

MR. LOWE:

14

MR. SMITH:

15

MR. LOWE:

Yes, it is.
I am not berating him.
Oh, yes, you are.
This is -- no, I am not.
You're intimidating him

16

with this agreement.

17

that he has some obligation that he's violated

18

with the county.

You know you are.

19

MR. SMITH:

20

MR. LOWE:

21

way I'm reading it.

22
23

No -Yes, you are.

MR. SMITH:
counts.

24
25

You're absolutely implying

That's the

Well, you're wrong on all

You're absolutely wrong on all counts.
MR. LOWE:

Okay.

Well, then let's go

through it some more.

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MR. SMITH:

And -- and this is a case

2

that involves issues about privilege and I am

3

confirming a privileged topic right now for my

4

record.

5

MR. LOWE:

He will admit and confirm

6

to you all day and all night that he has a duty

7

to protect the privilege of the county.

8

MR. SMITH:

9

MR. LOWE:

10

you it sounds like.

What are you doing now?
I don't know, arguing with

11

MR. SMITH:

12

beating me up to prolong this.

13

MR. LOWE:

14

No, I'm not beating you

up.

15

MR. SMITH:

16

MR. LOWE:

17

You're really just

Yeah, you are.
All right.

Let's stop.

Ask your question.

18

MR. SMITH:

19

MR. WILSON:

Come on.
The only thing -- I did

20

not show him this agreement.

21

asked about is whether he considered it

22

confidential.

23

that I'm going to -- not argue that it's

24

invalid, I'll give you that stipulation.

25

not sure what this has to do with anything.

1-800-325-3376

The only thing I

If you want a stipulation from me

I'm

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MR. SMITH:

Well --

2

MR. WILSON:

You could just ask him

3

is it a binding agreement -- says it's a

4

contract.

5

MR. SMITH:

You know, if we had

6

talked before the deposition about what

7

everyone's objectives were, then that would make

8

some sense, but as it is, I think I just need --

9

MR. WILSON:

Go ahead.

10

MR. SMITH:

-- to do the best I can

11

to ask the questions about it.

12

MR. WILSON:

13

MR. SMITH:

Okay.

Go ahead.

And I think that in this

14

case where your objectives are what they seem to

15

be, that this is highly relevant.

16
17

MR. WILSON:
Q.

Go ahead.

(BY MR. SMITH)

Now, to go back and

18

cover what I was in the middle of trying to

19

cover, is it true that you did not receive any

20

money on top of retirement or sick leave

21

conversion benefits to compensate you as a

22

whistle-blower victim of some unlawful

23

retaliation?

24
25

Is that true?

MR. LOWE:

Where does it say whistle

blower in here?

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JEFFREY M. SEWELL - 7/30/2013
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1

MR. SMITH:

2

MR. LOWE:

3

that in here?

4
5

It doesn't.
Well, why are you throwing

Your question -- I'm confused.

MR. SMITH:

Well, just let me --

please, please.

6

MR. LOWE:

That's -- I just think

7

that's an improper question, but -- now that I

8

know that, just ask it again, that that's not

9

part of the document.

10
11

MR. SMITH:

Would you please read my

question?

12

(Whereupon, the question was read.)

13

MR. LOWE:

14

MR. WILSON:

Object to the form.
Asked and answered.

15

Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

Please?

16

A.

As I've told you before, the only

17

compensation that I'm receiving is sick leave,

18

retirement.

19

Q.

20

I think we've covered that.

Has the county performed as of today

all of its obligations under the agreement?

21

MR. WILSON:

Objection to form.

22

A.

I don't know.

23

Q.

(BY MR. SMITH)

To your knowledge,

24

have they complied with the agreement as of

25

today?

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A.

I don't -- they have complied as of

2

today with paying the sick leave conversion

3

benefit.

4

if it fully paid other benefits or not.

5
6

Other -- other benefits, I don't know

Q.

Do you have any knowledge of any

failure to perform as of today?

7

A.

Yes.

8

Q.

All right.

9

A.

Pay the health insurance claim.

What is it?
I

10

don't have any evidence that has been paid.

11

I'm getting letters that it has not been paid as

12

recently as about -- I don't know, about 10 days

13

ago.

14
15

Q.

And what is the dollar amount of this

item?

16

A.

I think it's $800.

17

Q.

And is this the one that we've

18

addressed previously?

19

A.

20

previously.

21

Q.

22
23
24
25

And

It's the one question we've discussed

And is it the one that I understood

has been corrected?
A.

The one that you represented has

been, yes.
Q.

1-800-325-3376

Have you communicated with me before

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JEFFREY M. SEWELL - 7/30/2013
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1

this moment, again, that it hasn't been

2

resolved?

3

A.

No.

4

Q.

All right.

Well, then send me the

5

collection notices because it's not my error and

6

it's not the county's error --

7

MR. WILSON:

8

MR. SMITH:

9

MR. WILSON:

10

No, it's not.
I thought we were here

to ask questions.

11
12

Is that a question?

MR. SMITH:

No, it's not, it's a

debate because we're having debates.

13

MR. WILSON:

14

having a debate about whether an

15

eight-hundred-dollar claim has been paid.

16

right?

17
18

MR. SMITH:

So don't spend my time

Break for a couple of

minutes.

19

MR. WILSON:

20

(Whereupon, a short recess was

21

had, 5:15 p.m. - 5:17 p.m.)

22

MR. SMITH:

23

All

All right.

Okay.

Thank you.

We

don't have anything further.

24
25

1-800-325-3376

MR. WILSON:

I have one.

RE-EXAMINATION

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JEFFREY M. SEWELL - 7/30/2013
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1

BY MR. WILSON:

2

Q.

Mr. Smith asked you about County

3

Exhibit 9.

Do you have that there?

That is the

4

redlined version of the resolution that you

5

discussed.

6

A.

Yes.

7

Q.

Now, I want you to listen to a

8

portion of the April 12th, 2013 administrative

9

services committee meeting, and tell me if you

10

can identify the speaker.

11
12

MR. SMITH:

Excuse me.

Can you pause

that one second?

13

MR. WILSON:

14

MR. SMITH:

Yeah.
Can you identify the time

15

point in the tape?

16

track that, you know.

17

MR. WILSON:

Can we?

18

MS. KOORJI:

I can give you the exact

19

point in the tape.

20
21

I mean, sometimes you can

MR. SMITH:
know.

22

MS. KOORJI:

23

MR. SMITH:

24

Yeah, just so I could

Sure.
That would help me find

it on mine.

25

1-800-325-3376

MS. KOORJI:

Yeah, no problem.

It's

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JEFFREY M. SEWELL - 7/30/2013
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34 -- 34 minutes.

2
3

MR. SMITH:

Okay.

Thank you.

Who is

the speaker going to be?

4

MR. WILSON:

Well, I'm asking him.

5

That's the question.

6

MR. SMITH:

7

MR. WILSON:

Start it again, Alaizah.

8

MS. KOORJI:

Okay.

9

THE WITNESS:

10

All right.

Thank you.

Ready?

Yeah.

(PLAYING RECORDING.)

There are

11

changes to the resolution that you need to make

12

to make that document comply with the existing

13

law of Alabama and you got the memo from me

14

about that.

15

A.

It's me.

16

Q.

(BY MR. WILSON)

(RECORDING STOPPED.)

That's you, and you

17

recognized yourself as saying there are changes

18

in the resolution that you need to make to make

19

that document comply with the existing law of

20

Alabama and you got the memo from me about that?

21
22

A.

I -- I didn't hear all of it, but I

recognize my voice.

23

Q.

Okay.

24

A.

Sounds right.

25

Q.

Was Exhibit 9, which is your redline,

1-800-325-3376

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JEFFREY M. SEWELL - 7/30/2013
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1

the proposal you made in your April 2 memo to

2

bring the resolution of organization into

3

compliance with the law?

4

MR. LOWE:

Is that privileged?

Do

5

you need to take another break to think about

6

that one?

7
8

MR. SMITH:
me.

I can't think of any --

9
10

It seems privileged to

MR. WILSON:

Number 9 was discussed

publicly, you established that, at a hearing.

11

MR. SMITH:

12

MR. MITCHELL:

13

You talked about it in

the context of the March --

14
15

I understand.

MR. SMITH:

I was talking about it

only in the context of an open meeting.

16

MR. WILSON:

17

MR. SMITH:

18

into something else.

19

Do you have -You're trying to make it

MR. WILSON:

Well, I'm asking if this

20

was the implementation of what he was

21

recommending.

22

then I think you probably waived the April 2

23

memo.

If the answer to that is yes,

24

MR. MITCHELL:

25

MR. LOWE:

1-800-325-3376

Not on that basis.

Does anyone have a copy of

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JEFFREY M. SEWELL - 7/30/2013
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the April 2nd memo that -- could reference this?

2

MR. SMITH:

3

on that question, respectfully.

4
5

MR. LOWE:

Well, that settles it for

them, so --

6
7

We assert the privilege

MR. WILSON:
does.

8

MR. SMITH:

9

MR. WILSON:

10

I suspect Barnett Wright

I'm sorry?
I suspect Barnett Wright

has a copy.

11

That's fine, if you're asserting

12

privilege, I would like that on the record.

13

then --

14

MR. SMITH:

15

MR. WILSON:

16

THE REPORTER:

17

MR. LOWE:

Was I on the record?
Was it?
Yes.

And then as we've done all

18

day, I instruct him not to answer based on

19

privilege.

20

MR. WILSON:

21

Nothing further.

22

And that's fine.
Thank you very much

for your time.

23

THE WITNESS:

24

THE REPORTER:

25

And

Thank you.
One thing I need to

put on the record, this is a read and sign?

1-800-325-3376

Merrill Corporation - New York
www.merrillcorp.com/law

JEFFREY M. SEWELL - 7/30/2013

1

MR. WILSON:

2

THE REPORTER:

This is a read and sign.
Thank you.

3
4

FURTHER DEPONENT SAITH NOT

5
6

(Said deposition was concluded at 5:20 p.m. on

7

the 30th day of July, 2013.)

8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

1-800-325-3376

Merrill Corporation - New York
www.merrillcorp.com/law

JEFFREY M. SEWELL - 7/30/2013

1

CERTIFICATE

2
3

STATE OF ALABAMA

4

AT LARGE

5

I hereby certify that the above and

6

foregoing deposition was taken down by me in

7

stenotype and the questions and answers thereto

8

were transcribed by means of computer-aided

9

transcription and that the foregoing represents

10

a true and correct transcript of the testimony

11

given by said witness upon said deposition.

12

I further certify that I am neither

13

of counsel nor of kin to the parties to the

14

action, nor am I in anywise interested in the

15

result of said cause.

16

I further certify that I am duly

17

licensed as a Certified Court Reporter by the

18

Alabama Board of Court Reporting as evidenced by

19

the ACCR number following my name below.

20
21
22
23

Jane B. Elliott, CCR

24

ACCR #306 - Expires 9-30-13

25

Notary Public - Expires 11-09-16

1-800-325-3376

Merrill Corporation - New York
www.merrillcorp.com/law

JEFFREY M. SEWELL - 7/30/2013
Page 1
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a
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174:15,23,24,24
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1-800-325-3376

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107:4,13,21,21 108:3
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216:17 217:2,11
116:6,16 117:1
218:8 220:10
118:24 121:23 122:4
asked
122:10,17 123:10
37:5,5 44:22 46:10,22
125:7,17,22 126:20
49:20,24 52:16 54:25
127:22 128:20
64:22 66:12 67:1
131:24,25 132:13,13
78:25 85:18 107:16
132:17 135:4,22
107:19 118:22
139:8 140:19,23,25
120:21 134:18
141:9,9,13 142:23
135:20 138:4 142:11
144:9 146:6 147:10
154:22 159:22,23
149:3 152:25 154:18
161:6,12 168:23
154:23 155:6 156:5
173:13,18 181:6
156:24 160:19 161:5
192:19 196:14
161:14,16 162:24
200:12 202:11,16
163:18 164:7 170:9

1-800-325-3376

210:1 216:21 218:14
221:2
asking
20:22 21:4 30:7,12
34:18 38:13,14 62:6
78:8 85:11 90:9 98:4
99:12 108:17,23
111:1,19 115:2 116:1
116:9 117:3 120:11
129:13 135:16 142:5
150:15 152:12 156:3
161:22 170:2 177:20
185:8,18 189:22
192:9,22 194:24
198:7 199:9 209:23
210:6 214:23 222:4
223:19
asks
21:16 213:9
aspect
49:16
aspects
54:22
assembled
177:24
assert
16:19 17:10 18:18
19:19 20:17 22:13
29:19,21 36:2,9 37:2
45:10,13 48:3 49:19
56:7 57:15,23 61:19
61:22 67:11 75:18
95:10 159:20 224:2
asserted
63:21 66:21
asserting
22:12 58:2 61:13
68:10 224:11
assertion
17:23 60:18
assessment
212:17
assessors
103:17
assignment
205:19

assistant
4:3 7:16 8:6,8,12,18
9:4,11,16 46:23
185:4
assistants
8:11
assume
40:13 61:15 62:11
170:10
assuming
176:20
assumption
81:21 130:19,22 180:1
assure
63:14
at
6:7,9 7:3,17,22 10:19
11:21 12:7,7,22 14:4
15:19 16:16 17:10
18:9,19 19:18 20:4
20:10 21:13 23:17
25:23 27:8,10,13
28:1,6,22 29:4 31:5
32:10,16,21 33:6
38:14 39:1 40:6
41:18,20 42:18,21
45:14 51:14 52:24
53:11 57:13 61:11,15
70:16 71:1 73:1,2,10
73:15,22,23 74:7
76:8,11,22 77:21
79:7 80:8 82:18
84:23,24 85:15,15,25
87:12,14,17,18 88:15
88:23 95:3,25 96:18
97:3 101:23 103:3,19
104:17 108:3 109:5
109:10 110:7 112:17
113:18 117:4 118:4
118:13,14 119:18,18
119:23 120:3 121:20
121:21 123:17
127:10,24 133:12
134:9,10 140:20
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Merrill Corporation - New York
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athletics
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attached
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attempt
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attend
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attendance
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attended
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attention
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attorney
4:3 7:16,17 8:3,6 9:5
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11:1,23 13:16,19
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43:12 44:3,15 46:23
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149:21 172:11
182:23 185:4,4 203:1
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attorneys
8:9,12,18 16:3 47:16
116:14 117:16
128:21,23 133:16
143:19,21 191:3
attorney's
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117:17,18 119:2
130:21,24 131:3
139:15 140:25
145:17,21 146:2
172:11 206:1
attorney-client
16:9
attorney/client
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63:11 78:22 103:4
123:4 161:10 187:9
attributed
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149:1
at-will
106:9,24
Auburn
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audio
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audit
175:14
August
7:14 8:4 55:18
authentic
120:13
authenticate
108:18,23
author
34:17 41:17
authored
63:3 83:23 95:19

authorities
166:17
authority
9:21 10:6 22:21 26:4
57:14 73:16,20 74:1
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141:21 169:16,19
199:14
authorization
173:11
authorized
188:25 189:3 190:25
automatic
185:6
available
54:2 100:3
Avenue
2:10,19 3:15
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175:15
avoid
99:18
avoiding
89:5
awarded
29:8 31:6
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28:23
aware
11:19 12:18,21,23
13:2,7,11 15:11,22
22:1,6 36:17 90:17
90:23 91:4,5 133:18
136:16 142:6 189:12
211:14 213:1
away
27:22 93:13 131:5
171:16 173:24
183:24 209:19
a.m
6:10 40:4,4 49:8,8
64:13,13 203:7
B
B
2:1 6:1 166:9 226:23

back
7:13 19:3 37:23 44:7
48:20 51:22 55:11
57:22 64:3,15 74:6
76:7 98:19 100:6
101:23 131:6 134:9
137:1 145:15 146:21
149:25 151:20
161:15 162:18
217:17
backing
46:3
bad
113:13 196:3
bankruptcy
58:23 75:12,20 76:20
76:25 79:14 80:4
81:16 82:16 139:4,7
139:8 188:13 201:4
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Barnett
5:11 120:7 224:6,9
based
16:17 22:12 36:16
49:18 56:7,9 60:16
102:13 128:9 224:18
basis
48:25 76:24 77:14
162:20 223:24
battle
154:9
be
8:24 11:8 16:22 18:16
19:17 20:19 21:9,10
22:22,23 28:5,13,16
30:20,22 38:11,12
41:15 43:9,12 44:20
47:8 49:17 53:21
54:4,21 55:5,21
56:10 57:11 58:18
61:7,9,11,12,15,17
61:21 63:17,19,22
64:9 67:12 68:16
74:8,15 76:9 81:19
83:4 84:9 87:15
88:23 89:10,11 90:9

Merrill Corporation - New York
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JEFFREY M. SEWELL - 7/30/2013
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beating
216:12,13
became
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because
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become
13:16 44:11
becoming
91:16
been
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35:14 42:5 48:16
50:3 61:14 67:5,23
71:24 75:2 77:3,7,11
91:15 95:16 101:15
110:8 111:17 118:3,4
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141:22 142:11 145:7
146:1,3 148:6,25
159:16 160:22
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173:25 176:13,16,24
180:12 184:12 187:5
200:3 205:18 206:9
207:3 208:25 209:2
219:10,11,22,24
220:1,15
before
2:1 6:7 20:8 21:24
22:6 33:11 46:20
48:16 54:20 68:17
99:1 102:22 118:1
128:21 137:4 144:5
145:7 146:2,4 147:15
147:17 148:6 151:13
152:10 153:22,25
154:1 155:18 156:11
157:17 159:15 160:5
173:9 174:25 175:1
176:4 177:9 182:20
191:17 199:17 205:6
206:2 217:6 218:16
219:25
beg
119:23

began
7:13 13:24
beginning
18:20 52:24 95:6
164:14 188:5 207:13
begins
153:5
begun
13:22
behalf
189:4
behind
21:12 30:22 180:1
being
6:15 12:15 17:19
18:12 32:10 38:8
55:19 66:23 75:11
76:15 80:15 81:6
88:16 107:18 116:8
117:20 119:21,21,25
120:20 121:11 122:6
122:10 123:24
124:24 133:17 139:4
139:14 141:23 144:9
145:2 154:7 170:13
172:25 177:6 185:14
188:22 197:7 201:22
213:15
belief
99:15 181:25
believe
7:9,13,25 10:15 12:7,8
14:23 17:9 18:25
26:6,9,11 32:8 40:10
47:12,25 48:12 57:4
64:5 65:8 74:3 75:4
75:6 88:7 90:10,13
91:22 92:4,23,25
93:15,18 94:2 96:13
97:7 100:11 107:16
120:10 129:19
149:14 156:17
182:24 183:1 197:19
199:11 209:7 211:4
214:13
believed

22:23 76:23 96:15,19
believes
16:23 17:1 58:7
believing
17:7
below
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bench
119:18
benefit
113:8 118:17 147:8
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210:12,16,19 211:2,6
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benefits
128:25 183:23 212:23
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berating
215:7,12
best
9:3 19:11 61:17,18
67:6 68:10,18 79:13
80:4 81:9 83:13,18
101:7 102:15,22
171:2 172:1,22
188:12 201:25
217:10
better
76:6 99:19 109:21
137:15 177:22
203:25
between
8:4 16:3 23:3 25:5
28:12 45:8 64:18
68:15 75:19 83:20
88:25 97:9 103:21
110:16 127:12
137:22 176:1 177:8
179:22 191:11
193:12,18,25
beyond
47:6
big
180:7
billing
126:24 127:6,7 128:21

Merrill Corporation - New York
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JEFFREY M. SEWELL - 7/30/2013
Page 10
binding
217:3
Birmingham
1:14 3:17,23 4:6 6:7,8
36:18 37:1,12 82:1
bit
51:22 153:12 161:20
blower
212:2 217:25
Blvd
4:5
Board
226:18
boast
212:19
body
88:2 104:1 185:3
boiled
158:5
bombs
185:24
both
104:13 125:4 154:7
158:6
bottom
51:6,16
Boulevard
6:8
Bowman
87:19 88:14
boxed
110:22
boxes
110:10,20,25 111:8,11
112:3
boxing
112:1
brag
212:20
BRANCH
1:17
breach
213:6
break
101:8 102:11 195:20
195:22 203:15,22

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214:14 217:8 218:7
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breath
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179:21
by
but
44:8 150:1
brief
4:17,20 6:22 8:19,23
8:22 9:1 10:24 11:6
11:11,13 20:6 21:22
12:5,22 18:16,25
175:11
22:14 23:16,25 24:3
19:3,17 29:9,21
Briefly
24:25 28:14,23 29:13
30:10,12 33:10,15
75:13
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34:10,15 38:5 40:9
bring
36:17,25 37:4,10
41:3,18
45:17
46:10
91:23 170:18 171:2,25
38:12 39:11 40:5
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41:20 42:10 43:8,21
54:23 55:14 56:24
bringing
44:18 46:21 47:11
57:7,14 58:11 60:15
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brings
55:18 58:21 62:5,18
67:10,14,25 74:7
63:18
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77:25 78:6 79:3
broached
66:10,14 68:10,23
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69:10 70:15,25 71:23
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72:13 76:7 79:7
103:21 104:4,11
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85:14 86:7 90:8
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97:19 98:11 100:1,4
115:9 119:18 120:3
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104:16,21 105:2,3,21
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111:5 112:9 113:15
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116:8 118:5,22
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157:23 200:15 201:10
119:21 120:15,16
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Brown's
123:2,21,23 124:21
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126:6,17 127:21
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133:9,22 135:11,22
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140:15,16 141:2,16
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144:14,22 145:1,6
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180:23 181:5 185:5
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149:12 152:3,24
187:18
188:20
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190:21 191:9 192:22
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157:19 158:3 160:6
193:23 195:12 196:5
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burning
164:13 168:18,24
206:12 207:1 208:13
44:11 175:2,6 178:2
170:9 171:13 172:20
209:1
212:17
213:16
busy
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JEFFREY M. SEWELL - 7/30/2013
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207:2 211:15 217:17 canceled
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candidates
11:16
C
cannot
C
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can't
call
54:11 62:4 76:5 96:2,3
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169:14 185:10
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200:12 210:23
capable
calling
61:18 67:6
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capacity
calls
7:15 8:21 73:16
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came
61:11 64:9
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91:11 98:3 149:9
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Carrington
179:15 185:14 187:1 5:5,6,20 29:13 30:1,13
can
30:19,25 31:4,9 32:1
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32:19,23 33:20 42:9
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59:18,22,24 63:3,4,8
57:5,6,15,19 58:7
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68:25 69:9,17 70:18
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71:19 72:4 73:19,25
78:14,20,24 80:19,21
75:10 76:23 77:2
81:12,18 86:4 87:15
79:10 80:7 81:13
95:2 98:5 101:17,18
82:13,19 83:25 84:25
102:22 109:19 110:1
85:1,7,12,17,18,25
111:5 123:5,19
96:11 100:14,18

1-800-325-3376

107:23 118:24 119:9
119:13 120:17 126:8
126:9 129:24 130:4
135:13,16,19 148:8
149:16,22 150:9,18
152:5 153:8 157:22
158:6 160:8,11
163:16 174:8 181:14
182:21 187:11,12
188:5 189:23 190:17
190:18,21 194:3
200:15 201:2 204:15
Carrington's
74:20 109:6 129:14
151:15 163:1,8
Carroll
142:25
carry
184:22
carrying
185:5
case
9:6,7,8,23 10:4,9 12:6
12:12 13:5 14:20
15:7 23:20 36:13
139:22 171:9 174:11
206:9,14,25 213:11
215:6 216:1 217:14
cause
6:11 208:19 209:3,8
209:17 226:15
caution
64:23
CCR
2:1 226:23
Center
3:6
Central
102:6 189:17
certain
8:24,24,24 10:23 74:7
192:1
certainly
21:15 41:1 56:12 83:5
91:4 104:10 122:8
133:19

CERTIFICATE
226:1
Certified
6:1 226:17
certify
6:4 226:5,12,16
cessation
82:20,22
cetera
129:3
CFO
143:1
chair
51:24 52:1,6 84:18
169:7 172:4,12
chance
40:6 88:16 118:14
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chancellors
143:1
change
7:22 8:5 23:6 94:13
146:11 159:25 166:6
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changed
23:3 93:14,15,19,20
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changes
41:22 170:16 171:13
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character
117:2
characterization
22:25
characterize
82:21 88:17,19 116:16
Charles
8:14 9:12
Charlie
12:2,5
chart
43:18 149:9
chartered
81:17
chase
138:21

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choice
88:22,23,24 102:1
123:17
choke
153:16
chose
65:5 171:22
Circuit
175:11
circumstance
72:10 93:8 110:16,19
155:14
circumstances
137:2 139:3
circumvented
160:23
circumventing
161:3
citizen
94:6
City
1:14 80:12 81:2,15
82:1,9,11,16 201:18
Civil
1:6,11,16 2:15 6:5
claim
123:19 212:1 219:9
220:15
claims
175:10 212:11
clarification
209:24
clarify
19:14 117:12
Clay
17:15 49:1 98:23
196:25
Clayton
3:4
clean
110:12 112:11
cleaned
112:6,7
clear
16:13 25:19 29:1 30:1
38:12 45:17 60:19

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clearly
168:13 171:1 182:11
202:25 214:8
clerical
133:17
clerk
7:10
client
10:10 12:15 20:21
58:13 63:15,15,19
64:18 68:15 75:20
79:13 92:6,6,10
103:3,7,7,8,10,11,13
103:24 104:11,14
128:23 159:9 174:24
188:13 203:3
clients
199:12 200:5
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12:13
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43:4,7
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213:14 215:4
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3:8
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142:22
Cockrell
84:10
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13:23,25
colleague
205:25 211:23
collection
220:5
collective
104:14
collectors
103:17
college
143:3,5,7
colloquy

25:4 26:21
come
76:22 143:24 162:18
186:10 195:16,16
196:25 197:1,1
216:18
comes
24:15 131:2,6
coming
43:13 148:12 149:4
150:2,19 195:17,17
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12:19
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14:5
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6:9
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20:15,22 21:23 93:3
108:18 111:1 112:22
118:6 119:20
commented
20:21 116:3
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20:10 31:12
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25:12,16 116:8 192:2
commercial
81:17,20,22,25 82:10
commission
5:17 10:11,21 11:6,8
11:12,14,15 12:16
24:21 26:12 29:7
31:5 32:6 33:6 34:1
34:6 35:21 36:21
74:14,23 79:8 83:23
84:6,8 89:6 96:14
103:16,23 104:1,15
106:10 107:6 109:18
110:17 115:10
117:14,15 122:19
124:9,11 125:6,16,17
130:9,13,16,25 133:9
137:13 141:7,13,20
144:15 149:1 153:6
156:7 157:1,2 159:10

160:5 164:24 166:12
167:3 176:23 208:6,7
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6:3 24:12,25 25:5,6,22
26:1,21 29:13 30:1
30:18,25 31:4,9 32:1
32:18,23 33:20 42:8
44:20 45:8 46:12
52:13,14 59:21,22,24
63:8,8 73:19,25 74:8
74:20 76:23 77:2
79:10 80:7,14 81:4
82:7,15 84:25,25
85:1,7,12,18 86:10
87:19 96:3,5,9
100:14,15,17,20
107:22 118:24 119:8
135:13 148:6,8 149:2
149:15 150:9,18
151:14 152:5 154:6
155:1 158:4 160:7,11
163:1 169:19,22
172:24 173:16
181:14,18 182:21
188:5 199:14 201:2
201:10,20 204:14,15
commissioners
23:25 24:3 27:6 28:12
28:25 42:21 45:5
47:13 53:9 59:18
60:12 69:16 70:18
75:10 77:6 79:12
80:2 82:25 84:23
85:17 93:11 96:2,12
96:20,24 121:25
141:25 151:11
154:25 157:22 173:8
188:11 189:5 199:7
200:15 201:8 203:2
commissioner's
84:11
commissions
134:8
commission's
26:25 35:25 42:12,13
139:23

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commitment
90:4
committed
24:14,18 26:7,12
91:19
committee
27:1,5 32:17 41:21,22
42:4,10,12,19,22
43:9,25 44:3,5 65:3
74:23 77:21 79:9
80:21 84:23 86:13,24
87:18 88:6,8 92:18
92:24 96:1 148:10,11
148:14,15 149:18,21
149:23 150:7,12,23
151:6,15 152:6 154:4
155:10 156:3,7,20
160:20 161:18 162:4
162:22 164:1,23,25
168:3,10 169:7,21
170:13 171:13,17,20
172:3,7,10,14,18
189:12 190:11 202:3
203:9 204:20 207:12
207:22 208:4,5,17
209:14 221:9
committees
151:16 152:7 155:21
156:16 161:25
164:24 167:7 168:20
169:3 170:5,8,11
171:11,18 172:8
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169:11
common
131:19
communicate
190:16 191:19
communicated
43:16 149:7 219:25
communication
18:5 29:22 63:16
communications
16:3 68:14 173:10
189:18 191:11,23
193:18,25

1-800-325-3376

compare
134:25 136:7,18
compared
112:2 126:25 127:23
135:24 136:12
142:15
comparing
128:9 134:11 146:7
comparison
127:12,17,20 128:6
134:2 136:22,22
compensate
217:21
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107:17 134:2 135:24
136:3,7,19 145:16
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48:2,14
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133:15
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44:24 45:4 48:13
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147:23 151:25
completed
119:1 121:17
completely
129:24,25 144:9
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12:11 24:15 25:21
26:7,12 36:23 91:19
91:24 170:19 171:2
171:12,25 173:4
174:13 179:14
180:17 214:16 223:3
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26:10 114:12
complied
198:16 213:25 218:24
219:1
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10:8 41:24 198:13
222:12,19
complying
163:3,9

compounds
37:18
comprehensive
164:8
comprised
133:15
computer-aided
226:8
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184:20,22
concern
18:4 19:19 40:21 47:6
54:21 55:12 57:11,15
145:17,18 183:3
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16:13 45:7 46:5 69:20
75:15
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29:13 59:25
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17:22 19:16 45:16
49:17,21,25 59:11
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concluded
225:6
conclusion
37:11 40:16 65:12
85:16 213:10
condition
13:20 14:2
conduct
83:10 92:15,22 93:4,6
174:23 194:22
197:12,22,22,23
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16:25 17:1 60:6 64:10
94:23
CONFERRING
133:13 191:21
confidence
90:12,14
confidential
51:5,15 65:1 70:20
75:3 89:20 99:11
216:22
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78:19 89:23 90:6
confirm
142:6 155:18 159:6,12
179:10 180:6 192:21
216:5
confirmation
213:4
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194:9
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216:3
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111:8
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189:21 218:3
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178:18 200:21
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12:25 13:9 81:15 97:8
125:14
consensus
162:17
consent
10:8,9 12:11 14:9 22:3
22:18 24:16 26:8,10
26:13 43:20 90:18
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163:10,14
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213:6
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200:6,6 208:18
consideration
130:14
considered
11:16 216:21
consist
169:11
consistent
35:25 74:16
constitutional
167:1
consultant
14:17
contact

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193:11 194:14
197:18,23 198:3,7,19
198:20 199:18
200:11,16,17
contacted
190:22 197:25 198:6
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198:10
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198:25
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17:7 36:12
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53:10 62:20,23 108:19
190:19
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22:2 90:4
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12:18 13:10 14:5 23:2
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49:18 199:16 200:17
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22:22 53:4 65:5
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213:13
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213:10 214:15
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117:20 154:18 155:17
156:5 172:23 204:21
205:2 208:3 211:12
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209:19
continue
105:15 110:13 198:25
continued
199:3
continuing
149:15 186:25
contract
130:20,23 131:2,11,13
131:13,23 132:1,3,17

1-800-325-3376

132:23 217:4
contractor
105:9
contracts
125:3,3 130:7,11
131:19 132:18,22
contractual
213:6
contrary
116:12 200:18
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107:24
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128:25 129:1,2
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16:7 96:5,6
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110:18
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184:14
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21:4 31:16 46:15 63:7
66:15,19 69:16 111:3
201:12 202:24,25
203:7
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11:5 31:3,9,22 63:22
134:7 192:13,23
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209:5,11 210:11,16,19
211:2,6 217:21 219:2
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97:1
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81:7 201:23
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196:24
Cooper
3:10 83:22
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50:12
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5:3,5,6,9,11,12,14,15
5:17,18,19,21,22
37:13 39:10,13,16,16
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40:14 41:6,13,19
50:5,13 51:9 53:21
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112:24 114:20
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110:16 111:7
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153:8
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103:17
Corps
7:11
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7:4 8:7 17:14 25:17
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123:15 126:19
129:23 130:8 143:20
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195:2,4 197:20
198:12 200:14 208:4
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219:22
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41:4 120:8 139:16
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127:10 134:20
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9:3 27:20,20 30:22
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110:5 111:24 118:12
127:14 135:20
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151:19 179:6 186:18
190:5 217:2 221:20

224:1
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18:3 65:10 89:11
113:12 150:17
154:13
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32:8
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6:6 50:11 51:12 54:2
80:13 81:3,7 82:24
105:1,10 127:23
133:13 134:21
187:20 188:21,24
189:19 190:17,23
191:21,24 192:14,24
193:8,12,19 194:1
196:4 197:8,18,24,25
198:20 199:18
200:18 201:19,23
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226:13
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156:23 157:5,22
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134:14 136:9
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134:15 136:8,13 142:9
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215:23,23
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1:9 4:3 5:9,17 7:4,7,16
7:17,24 8:3,6,8,12,18
9:5,11,16,20 10:6,8
10:11,14,25 11:8,21
11:23 12:15,19,23
13:8,16,19 14:4,7,18
15:1,7,18,23 16:13
17:8,10 18:12 22:12
23:25 24:3,15,20
26:4,25 27:6 28:12
29:6 33:10 34:1
35:21 36:1,8,20,21
36:24 40:23 42:16
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JEFFREY M. SEWELL - 7/30/2013
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80:4 81:9,15 87:15
90:16,19,21 91:16,19
91:23 92:11 93:10,14
93:23 97:22 103:3,3
103:16,22,23,23
104:1,2,4,17,17,21
105:2,3,6,16,18,23
106:9,15,16,20 107:1
107:2,11,14,25 108:3
108:9,12 109:10,18
111:24 112:23 113:2
113:11,24 114:11,19
114:23,24 115:1
117:16,18,19 118:9
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122:13,17,19,20
123:14 124:24 125:6
127:24 130:5,21,23
130:24 131:3 132:3
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136:20,23,24 137:2
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139:10,14 140:16,19
140:24 141:1,10,13
141:17,18,24 142:16
142:18 143:15,16,18
143:21,25 144:1,4,5
144:15 145:16,21,22
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149:20,20 152:21,25
153:6,19 155:2,6
159:4,10 160:19
162:10 163:3,5,7,18
163:19 164:1,7 165:8
166:2,12,15,16,22,23
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168:6,8,9,19 169:2,6
169:10,15,17,18,21
169:23 170:4,7,13,17
170:20 171:10,12

1-800-325-3376

172:1,2,3,4,6,8,9,10
172:11,13,15 173:4
174:14 176:21,23
178:2 179:13 180:24
182:23 185:1,3,4
187:9,16,18 188:13
188:18,19 189:4
199:6,8,8 201:6
202:1 203:2 205:3,7
205:20,23,25 206:24
207:7,9 210:24
212:22 213:3,21
215:18 216:7 218:19
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12:11 13:14,20 14:1
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114:12 116:14,15
136:18,19,19 175:6
187:19,19 188:20,21
188:24 189:19
190:22 191:3 193:19
200:5 220:6
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15:13 50:16 61:9
98:17 123:6 220:17
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1:1 20:8 92:2 99:3,5
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226:18
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4:4 72:13 109:11
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198:17
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22:23
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102:15,16 217:18,19

coverage
29:21 109:5 112:10,11
113:2
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161:10 218:18
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66:11
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84:5
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35:4
co-wrote
35:3
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2:7
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141:8
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133:17 141:9
creditor
189:1 191:1
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79:15 80:11 81:2
188:14 189:4 201:18
crises
179:2,22
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31:19 122:11
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115:11,17,24 116:9,17
116:19 122:8
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100:11
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101:16 138:3
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11:7
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164:5
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138:21 140:11 195:18
CV-74-S-12-S
1:16
CV-74-S-17-S
1:11
CV-75-S-666-S

1:6
D
D
2:8,16 4:15
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189:2,8
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6:4 10:21 29:9 34:22
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50:9 71:19 72:4 73:24
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150:16,17 155:22
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38:19
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6:9 10:25 33:24 47:20
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148:25 150:3 155:25
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180:24 181:9 185:19
186:8 187:23 188:3
189:2 192:18 198:1,9
198:22 211:20 212:4
214:1 216:6 224:18
225:7
Daylight
189:18

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days
44:8 81:10 128:24,24
131:6 201:7 202:2
219:12
day-to-day
11:25
DC
2:20
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55:14 155:25 178:3
207:14 211:3 212:4
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179:2
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28:12,15 220:12,14
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220:12
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13:22 96:14,21 203:6
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201:8
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97:22 134:22 135:1,7
184:11
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25:8
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112:21
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10:9,9 12:11 14:9
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91:5,20,24 92:1
139:25 163:11,15
deep
44:8 150:1
Defendants
1:10,15,20 3:9 4:1
defiance
180:7
deficiencies

1-800-325-3376

32:20 33:2 50:9 69:21
83:24 84:17 85:20
86:2 100:8 156:24
157:6 181:18
deficiency
33:8 59:11
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48:18
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204:4
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178:7,9
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167:23
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33:25 34:2,3,4 87:3
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84:9 177:5 181:8
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137:23
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137:19
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109:12 110:23 112:16
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114:7
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72:14 187:25
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203:10
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212:20
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152:9,13,16 192:21
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162:20 189:13 209:4
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73:21
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131:10
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74:10 137:12,12
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130:9
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49:17
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62:19,23 63:1,9,15
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76:19,22 77:2,6,10
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85:24,24 86:5,20
87:1,7,14 88:5 89:19
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96:12 97:3 98:11
100:14,16,17,19,20
100:22 109:1 113:5
113:15 114:8,16
115:10,20,24 116:2
119:10,17,22,24
123:23 125:6 127:1
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differentiate
171:18
difficult
41:1

1-800-325-3376

direct
9:21,24 10:6 16:10,19
17:2 22:11 36:6,10
36:15 58:18 60:24
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66:10 67:20,21,22
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85:14,22 86:12,16
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93:1,10,14,18 94:15
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97:20 100:11 101:20
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115:5,8 122:1,2
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129:15 134:18,21,24
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138:7 143:13 148:12
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152:20 156:17
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157:16,19 158:24
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159:2,14 161:5
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25:25 26:2,6,9,11,18
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175:17
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132:21,21 134:15
58:21,22 59:2,3,7,7
148:21 155:9,12
59:10,16,20,21 62:10

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153:14,25 154:2
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1-800-325-3376

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156:19 157:25 158:2
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24:25 26:1 32:5 40:25
42:2,17,20 79:20
80:18 85:22 87:20

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73:18
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175:10
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102:17
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2:1 6:1 226:23
else
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elsewhere

1-800-325-3376

167:23
else's
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embarrassed
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44:10
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4:17 6:11,21 56:15
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examined
6:16
example

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exclude
30:24
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exists
34:9

1-800-325-3376

expect
203:18
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fashion
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finish
214:14
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67:10 173:6 174:16
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111:23 117:15 139:6

1-800-325-3376

139:19 150:4
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73:18 100:23 220:23
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3:10
game
30:11

1-800-325-3376

gap
10:19
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142:25
gave
75:1
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99:17
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191:7
good
6:23,24 38:23 47:12
50:11 196:17,17,20
204:12 212:18
got
13:23 30:6 32:18
33:19 41:25 43:13
50:22 51:22 67:4,10
87:5 91:2 108:12
116:12 117:23
126:19 137:19,19
138:8,10 147:4 149:4
153:12 156:23,25
160:18 164:7 175:6
175:21 176:5 177:10
178:1 181:15 183:11
184:10 186:20 187:8
196:22 198:23
206:21,23 222:13,20
governing
104:1
government
93:4,4 134:4 135:25
governmental
88:2 174:25
Grace
3:14 35:7 205:10,11
GRAMMAS
3:3
gray
41:1
great
155:25
greater
212:23 213:2
greatest
178:22
greatly
112:14
grossly
126:24
ground
56:16 57:3,7

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JEFFREY M. SEWELL - 7/30/2013
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grounds
22:9 67:24
growing
127:22
guard
72:15,20,24 77:11
185:14 186:5,17,17
guess
8:2 11:6 17:21 44:10
44:10 52:8 72:4 89:3
138:10 151:7 154:17
186:7
guidance
32:7 199:9
gun
73:3 186:2
guns
185:24
guys
43:13 128:14 149:3

137:11,12 139:10
141:3,7,16,19,22
145:7,9,13,13,14,15
145:18 146:1,3,18
147:19 149:8,10,23
151:14 152:5 153:21
154:7 157:22 159:8
159:16 160:8,14
161:19 162:7 165:17
173:6,25 174:7,16
175:11,13,14 178:10
179:2,6 180:12 183:4
184:11,25 185:1,2
186:7 188:12 190:7
190:10 191:7 192:23
194:17,18 197:11,22
198:2 199:17,19
200:2,16,17 201:3,13
204:8 208:14 209:2,3
212:1,6 217:5 220:21
half
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181:20
had
hallway
6:12 8:24 10:1 11:4,15 111:9
11:17,24,24 12:2,4
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13:16,22 15:8,23
30:6 84:15
19:18 32:22 33:21
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37:12 38:3 39:10,13
72:16 152:4,10 153:23
39:16 40:4,5,14
154:17,19 155:9,13
41:13,18 43:17,19
158:1 162:14,16
44:2,5,22,23 46:11
165:11,11,16,17
47:12 48:13,16 49:8
171:4 173:1 186:18
51:21 52:12,15,15
handing
53:9 59:19 60:10
158:25 159:2,3 163:17
63:7 64:13 70:9,20
handle
75:15,22,24 77:3,7
178:10
77:11 78:25 79:1,12 handling
80:2,3 83:9 85:3,19
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86:13 87:4,21,23
hands
88:1 89:4 91:6,15
54:12 62:13 84:12
94:1 95:1 96:25
handwritten
99:22 102:9 111:8,16 153:7
118:2,5,7,13 123:7
happen
130:6 132:5,13
85:24 151:2
133:23,24 134:7
happened
135:1,19 136:6 137:3 12:22 53:6 71:4

1-800-325-3376

141:16 158:14,17
159:21 179:9
happy
53:21 55:13 101:9
140:10 167:16
Harbert
3:16
hard
195:18
has
16:13 32:6 35:8 36:21
38:15,16 40:10 41:8
46:11 53:20 54:2
57:7,23 58:7,22 59:2
61:22 68:12 79:1
87:25 101:2,15 106:8
106:13 110:8 120:17
129:8 132:4,13 138:7
142:13 160:22 168:9
171:13 174:2,10,23
199:14 206:9 213:20
215:6,17 216:6,25
218:19 219:10,11,22
219:23 220:15
224:10
hasn't
34:20 220:1
hastily
129:17
have
6:18 8:19 9:5,21 10:6
13:3,4 14:13,21,24
15:3,10 19:9,19
20:24 21:1,12 22:21
23:5 24:8 25:11
27:20,22,23 28:25
29:1 31:3,22 35:9,14
35:14 36:7,15 37:5
37:14,21 38:4 39:13
39:16,23 40:1,5,9,22
41:6,19 43:2,14 44:3
45:18 46:19 47:25
48:6,11 49:9,10,20
49:24 50:3,23 51:5,9
51:12 53:20 55:13,17
55:24 56:1,8,11 57:1

57:14,16,21 58:17
59:7 60:6,16 61:1,8
62:2 63:1 64:14 65:7
66:18 67:4 70:5
71:15 74:19 76:14,19
77:13,17,24,24,25
79:3 81:21 82:2,23
84:10 86:16,18 87:11
87:13,16,21,23 91:3
91:10 92:4,9 93:5,25
94:11,15 96:4 97:19
97:20 98:1,10,21
100:23 101:4,5,10,12
101:13,15,20,25
104:4,4,5,5,6 106:22
111:17,24 112:18
118:2,3,6,7,13 123:9
123:11,11,17 125:7
125:24 126:19
132:10 133:19
135:14,20 136:14
141:1 144:13 146:21
147:4,10 149:5,20,21
151:1,16,19 152:25
155:6 156:17 157:8
157:19 158:9,11
160:22 161:5,8,15
162:20 164:1 165:21
167:15 168:3 169:19
169:20 170:4,17
171:7,17,19,19
172:20 173:25
176:13,16 178:4,12
178:13,16,20 183:1,6
184:20,24,25 186:18
186:23 187:5,15
188:17 192:5,12,14
192:25 195:5 198:19
198:20 200:10
202:16,18 205:18
206:11 208:25 209:3
209:10 210:3 211:25
212:6,14,23 218:24
219:1,5,10,25 220:23
220:24 221:3 223:16
223:25

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Page 24
haven't
67:1 68:17 94:10
123:7 164:4 170:24
having
13:12 26:20 46:25
55:20 66:15 99:18
110:20,22 112:10
148:8 172:3,10
197:17 208:23
209:18 220:12,14
he
9:21,24 10:1,5,10,12
10:22 12:2,4,6,10
16:17,24 17:1,5,23
17:24 19:17 20:17,18
20:20 21:16,17,21
26:22 27:9 31:10,12
31:12 34:17,19,20,21
38:5,19 40:13,15,16
40:20 41:8 46:11,13
54:4,4,8,14,15,23,23
58:7,7 59:25 60:20
61:5 69:3 72:25 73:1
73:2,2 75:22,23,24
75:25 76:4,6 78:9,15
79:12,18 82:9,11,14
82:15 85:1,2,3,4,4,7
85:19,20,20 86:1,5
87:21,23,24,25 95:18
98:5 99:7 103:18
114:5,5 118:1,2,5,7
119:17 120:17,18
121:10 123:5 130:5
135:17,20,21 137:19
137:19,20 138:4,8,8
138:10 142:12,13,15
142:16,18,20 145:18
148:17,20,20 149:14
149:14 152:9,16,16
158:13,13 160:2,3,14
160:14 161:6,9
173:14,20,23,23
174:5,7 177:16
181:15 182:24 183:1
183:4 185:18 186:2,7
186:10,12,14 187:4,4

1-800-325-3376

188:6,12 190:10
192:17,19,21,23
194:8,9,18 195:15
196:11 202:11,16
203:1,1 205:23,24
206:6 211:21,21,23
211:24 213:20
215:17 216:5,6,21
223:20
head
9:25 88:25
heads
36:23 104:6 199:8
health
91:8 129:1 219:9
hear
18:22 30:8 56:10 60:1
61:14 75:25 76:5
92:7 116:19 119:10
189:9 214:20 222:21
heard
68:17 98:15 117:7
119:4 121:20,21
122:4 177:14 183:3
185:13
hearing
12:18 13:10 14:5
30:11 36:13 37:18,21
42:19,22 43:20,20
65:4 67:7 68:18
84:23 85:8,15 116:21
148:5,14,24 149:11
149:11 154:4 173:3
173:16 177:7 188:4
190:10 191:9 192:17
192:20,22 194:4,5,13
194:17 195:11
202:23 223:10
hearsay
18:15 108:19 121:10
heart
62:7
heavy
26:22
help
19:4 71:17 221:23

helpful
195:7 196:21
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2:18
her
14:14,16,22 15:3
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41:5,8 43:17 54:21
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116:8 117:3 119:20
121:17 123:20
124:23 125:1 128:6
128:13 143:25,25
147:23 148:2 149:8
153:13 154:22 157:7
157:12 158:5 167:15
167:25 174:1 179:7
182:19 183:7 187:12
192:1 193:18 197:4
202:17 206:17
211:19 212:19 214:5
214:11 217:25 218:3
220:9
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226:5
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39:22 50:6 71:22
105:20 108:11
112:25 114:21
118:11 122:15 147:1
152:23 155:4 205:5
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43:13 44:16 149:3
he'll
67:21 153:15
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21:15 26:9 32:8 34:15
34:17 58:7 72:23
104:10 115:2 116:24
120:8,10 121:10
130:10 135:17 145:4
152:15 158:8 173:14
173:20 182:3 192:14
192:25 206:3,4,4,14
206:15 213:25
215:17

high
142:7
higher
142:23 175:9,24
highly
140:16 217:15
Hills
3:7
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16:10 17:2 19:5 22:11
29:16 30:12 31:18,23
32:4 34:10,14 36:4,6
36:10,15 40:12 44:2
45:18 46:2 48:7
53:23 54:2,3 57:7
58:18 60:24 62:15
63:16 74:3 80:17
87:25 95:12 97:12
98:4 108:17,23 111:1
115:21,21 117:1
119:4,10,18 120:11
123:8 129:13 135:16
138:3 140:2 144:20
149:20 152:20
153:15 173:13 174:7
183:4 185:8,23
186:18 191:23
192:11,21 195:14
196:19 214:14,18
215:7,12,15 216:20
217:2 222:4 224:18
himself
186:10,14
hire
141:13
hired
8:1 104:25 187:17
188:19
hiring
36:20
his
16:24 17:7 19:5 29:13
30:13 32:7 46:14
54:2 78:3,8 79:13
81:8 87:25 97:14
98:3 99:13,14 110:11

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JEFFREY M. SEWELL - 7/30/2013
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111:1 116:22,23,24
118:8 126:15 138:8
145:17 158:4 159:25
161:9 173:23 174:6
177:15 181:16,21
182:2 186:2,3 188:13
190:17,18,19 191:25
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214:6,15
hit
153:16
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147:3
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191:1
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128:24
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87:12,17
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28:16 87:22 212:17
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113:21
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84:9
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35:7 205:10 206:8
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101:22 145:24
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125:2
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84:3 181:10,21 190:15
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11:2 19:6 31:12,22
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88:19 101:22 108:7
117:23,23,24 121:25
125:17 127:13,21
129:16,17 130:17
134:20,23,24 135:23
136:6,11 161:18,24

1-800-325-3376

162:1 166:16,17
170:8 171:9 190:5
194:19,20 203:17
204:16
however
16:23 58:14 110:12
HR
72:13
Hubbert
143:4
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72:14
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24:17 115:14 117:9
131:8
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175:19
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101:16
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4:15 6:1 7:8,9,9,13,25
8:1,2,25 10:13,15,20
10:22,23,24,25 11:4
11:6,13,17,18,19
12:3,5,7,8,21,21,22
13:2,3,15,17 14:10
14:13,13,14,17,23,23
15:5,6,10 16:9,15,21
16:25 17:2,9,14,18
17:20,21 18:1,2,14
18:17,19,22,25 19:7
19:8,10,16,19 20:9
20:14 21:8,14,19,19
23:16,19,19 24:22
25:1 26:9,19,23 27:9
27:20,22 28:3,11,11
28:13,16,17,18,18,21
29:3,5,8,19,20 30:7
30:10,12,16,21 31:24
32:3,10,11,21,22
33:4,12,14,15,15
34:2,4 35:3,8,12,12
35:14,15,15,19 36:4
36:5,6 37:4,4,5,7,14

37:15,20 38:4,6,17
38:21,21,25 39:2,4,8
39:9,9,12,13,13,14
39:15,16,23 40:1,1
41:2,13,14,19 42:2
42:17 43:2,14,15,15
43:22 44:3,4,9,10,22
45:1,2,25 46:1,6,7,10
46:14,21,25 47:3,8,8
47:10 49:9 50:15,19
50:21,22 51:7,7,20
51:20,21,21,24 52:5
52:5,8,10,10,15,15
52:16,25 53:1,12,19
53:19 54:3,11,17,18
54:19 55:1,11 56:5,7
56:18 57:14,14 58:12
58:19,24 59:5,13,20
59:20 60:1,15,23
61:1,1,4,8,11,13,17
62:1,2,4,5,10,11,15
63:14,17,22,24,25
64:2 65:13 66:3,12
66:18,25 67:1,3,9,9
67:12,12,14 68:1,4
68:17,20 70:7,7,8
71:8,15,15 72:1,3,11
72:13,21,25,25 73:9
74:3,3,4,6,15,21 75:4
75:25 76:2,2,5 77:24
77:24,25 78:15 79:1
79:1,2,3,16,17,18,24
80:14,17 81:5,18,20
81:21,21,22,23 82:2
82:5,5,6,21,23 83:3,4
83:19 84:7,16 85:22
86:15,15,18,18,22
87:1,1,2,3,4,4,5,11
87:12,12,12,13,13,14
87:15,16,20,23,25
88:3,7,9,11,17,17,22
88:23 89:2,3,8,8 90:3
90:6,9,13 91:1,1,3,4
91:4,9,9,10 92:20,23
92:25,25 93:12,14,16
93:18,25,25 94:2,11

94:20 95:12 96:2,3,8
97:7,7 98:1,1,2,8,10
98:13,15,15,24 99:17
100:10,16,19,23
101:1,7,10,17,18,25
102:12,14 103:9,9
104:6,8,13,23,23,24
105:8,12 106:12,18
106:20,22 107:16,20
108:1,3 109:4,8,8,23
110:1 111:7,16,18,19
111:23,24,24 112:1
112:16 113:17,21,21
113:24 114:7,7,10,18
115:8,8,9,24 116:11
116:12,16,21,21,21
117:13,13,25 118:2,7
119:6,12,13,14,17,17
119:17,18,19 120:2,5
120:9,19,23 121:2,21
121:21 122:4,5 123:6
123:7,8,11,11,16,18
123:24,24 124:21,21
125:24,24 127:4,4,7
127:16,16,17,17
128:1,5,5,5,6,15
129:6,6,10,12,16,19
130:6,17,17 132:6,12
132:19 133:14,20,25
134:6,18 135:1,1,2,2
135:2,7,7,9,9 136:4,6
137:8,10,10,12,17
138:2,6,9,10,15,17
138:20,22 139:6,8,16
139:18,19 140:8,11
140:12,13,19,20
141:6,7,14 142:4,10
142:19 144:5,12,13
145:13,13,21,23,23
146:9,13,21 147:16
147:22,23 148:3,15
148:23 149:5,6,14,15
149:21,22 150:4,5,16
150:16,16,17,18,20
150:25 151:4,6,7,18
151:19,22,25 152:2,8

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JEFFREY M. SEWELL - 7/30/2013
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152:11,11,12,14
153:16,25,25 154:1
154:12,13,17,22,24
155:12,13,13,20,21
155:22 156:10,12,15
156:15,19,19 157:2,9
157:12,16,25,25
158:1,1,11,16,18,19
158:19 159:2,2,4,14
159:18,24,25 161:8,8
161:12,12,15,21
162:19 163:6,6,14,23
164:2,4,4,13 165:2
165:10,10,11,11,12
165:20,20 166:4,9,12
167:24,25 168:1,12
168:13,14 169:14,25
170:3,7,7,10,12,14
170:21,21,21,22,24
171:7,7,8 172:19,20
172:21 173:6 174:8
174:16,25 175:1,14
175:21,25 176:11
177:1,4,14,18,18,19
177:20 178:4,4,5,12
178:12,15,16,19,19
178:22,25 179:5,6,6
179:8 180:4,4,20,22
181:1,9,10,24 182:1
182:5,25 183:2,10
184:2,8,9,10,10,13
184:21,24,24,24
185:10,11,13,20,21
185:21 186:7,7,16,19
186:20,23 187:3,6,11
187:22,23,23 188:1,2
188:2,6 189:9,24
190:1,4,5,5,8,10
191:2,4,16,18 192:1
192:5,20,25 193:16
193:16,16,17,22,22
193:22,23,23,24
194:1,1,3,5,6,8,9,16
194:18,24 195:3,3,17
196:5,8,9,15 197:19
197:19,20,25 198:5,5

1-800-325-3376

198:8,8,12,16,16,18
198:21 199:2,6,6,10
199:13,13,13,21
200:2,5,6,23,24
201:10,21 202:5,11
202:14,17,18,20
203:3,14,19 204:19
204:22,23 205:1,7
206:3,4,10,12,12
207:5 208:2,20,22,22
208:23,24,24,24,25
209:1,1,7,12,21
210:1,2,2,2,4,4,4,7
210:18,18 211:4,7,17
211:17 212:6,6,16,22
213:16,20 214:12,12
214:15,17,22,25
215:12,14 216:2,9,19
216:20 217:8,8,10,13
217:18 218:6,7,18,22
219:1,3,9,12,16,21
220:9,24 221:7,15,18
221:20 222:21,21,21
223:8,11,14,22 224:6
224:9,12,14,18,24
226:5,12,12,14,16,16
idea
56:11 101:9 151:15
152:6
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154:7,9 160:8,14
161:17 171:22
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39:21 50:5 71:21
105:19 108:10
112:24 114:20
118:10 122:14
146:25 152:22 155:3
205:4
identified
34:20
identify
43:4 71:14 80:21
81:12 147:8 221:10
221:14
if

11:15 12:4 15:6 16:8
17:1,21 18:3,4,18
19:7 20:16,18 21:4,5
21:9,16,17 22:23
25:12 30:1,18 34:10
34:19 35:8 38:2,3,5
38:21 39:15 41:3,3
41:13 43:4 44:19
45:7 46:7 49:20,24
50:17 51:15 53:20
54:1,4 56:10,13 57:3
58:11,13 61:12 65:5
66:19,22 67:12 73:15
73:23 75:23 78:4,13
78:15,20 79:1 80:19
80:21 82:6 87:14
88:9 89:4 92:6 93:12
93:13 97:25 98:24
99:17 101:1,8,21
102:18,19 105:17
109:19 111:16,18,20
111:24 116:1 117:5
118:5,12 119:13
123:23 127:19 129:6
130:2 131:13 134:22
135:1,1,7,8,9,19
137:1 138:9 140:12
141:13 143:13
144:12 145:23
150:14 151:25
152:16 153:16,19
155:8,8 158:3,4,8
160:6,21,21,24 166:5
166:6,8 167:15,17
168:1 173:25 174:4
177:13 178:5,23
179:6 181:5 182:24
184:13 186:20 189:7
189:22 190:8 191:22
192:11,22 195:5,15
200:12 202:11
204:22 206:3,4 209:2
209:8,9 211:17
212:21 214:15
216:22 217:5 219:4
221:9 223:19,21

224:11
II
4:2
immediately
73:18 91:15
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90:24
implementation
223:20
implemented
133:19
imply
186:9
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215:16
importance
180:16
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21:9 49:16 213:17,18
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213:5
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129:15
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99:11 173:18,21
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12:19,25,25 13:4,7,7
13:9,13,16,20 14:7
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15:12,15,19,23,24
16:14,16,20 17:1,4
18:6,8,8,20 19:9
22:19,21 23:5,20
24:13 26:2,21 28:25
29:1,6,10,11 31:2,8
32:12 33:17 36:5,13
36:18,19,25 38:8,11
40:6,24 41:14,16,22
42:4,12,14,15,25

Merrill Corporation - New York
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JEFFREY M. SEWELL - 7/30/2013
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56:25 59:15 60:13
63:4,10,16 66:7 67:4
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72:12 73:2,16 74:5
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78:12 79:13,14 80:3
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81:17,19,22,24 82:8
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84:11,12,14,15 85:8
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87:10,11,22,25 88:25
89:1,23 90:11,14,18
90:18,24 91:14,18,23
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99:2,2,5,18 100:4
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109:8,11,12,15,18
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111:9 112:3,7,21
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117:8,10,16,17
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136:8,8,12,14,15,16
136:21 137:2,6,18
138:6,19,24 139:3,4
139:4,7,8,14,15,25
139:25 140:24 141:5
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143:15 144:4 145:21
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148:13 149:9,16,23
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160:9,14 161:2,6,7
161:12 162:4,8,10,10
162:22,23,25 163:17
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166:10,15,20,22
167:1,4,9,15 169:1,5
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170:17 171:1,11,23
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174:9,16 175:7 176:1
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180:18 181:19
182:13,16,17,24,25
183:2 184:4,9,25,25
185:2,10 186:2
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188:12,13,17 189:1,6
189:8,12 190:10,11
190:17,18 191:8,10
192:17,22 193:6,9,14
194:5,13,16,24 197:3
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201:18,25 202:3,23
203:9 204:15,20,21
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208:10,13,17 209:17
210:12,15 211:3,5,12
211:21 212:8,10,14
213:10 214:10
217:13,18,25 218:3

221:15,19 222:18
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190:20
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112:13
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Indirectly
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initial
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initially
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inquire

Merrill Corporation - New York
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JEFFREY M. SEWELL - 7/30/2013
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insinuating
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insinuations
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intentions
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interested
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136:11 137:17
138:12 139:9,12,24
140:5 141:7 142:21
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Merrill Corporation - New York
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JEFFREY M. SEWELL - 7/30/2013
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156:22 158:19 159:5
59:16,17,25 60:8,13

Merrill Corporation - New York
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JEFFREY M. SEWELL - 7/30/2013
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64:5 65:19 66:17
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153:12 154:20 155:5
220:11 221:25
155:23 156:3 157:3,8
222:15
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IV
161:4,19,22 162:11
3:13

1-800-325-3376

163:17 167:5 170:2
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176:20 177:1,13,13
178:14,19,21,21
180:6 181:4 182:4
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192:9 193:23 194:11
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117:24,25 118:1

Merrill Corporation - New York
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JEFFREY M. SEWELL - 7/30/2013
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Joseph
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122:3 129:11 131:21
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170:4 175:22 178:19
179:5,21 181:24

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182:5 185:16,17
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JUSTICE
know
2:14
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139:14
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154:6,12 158:4
206:3,4,6 207:1,5
173:16 175:4 177:13
208:24,24 210:5,18

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19:18 38:9 61:23,23
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LARGE
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145:19 147:12
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late
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lay
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listen
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listened
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looked
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looks
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manager's
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market
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MARTIN
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47:2,5,7,9,11 48:3,5
48:6,8,10,19,24 49:3
49:4,9,13,15,23
53:23,24 54:1,7,9,14
54:17,25 55:2,5,8,12
56:12,20,22 57:10,18
57:19,21,22 58:2,4,6
58:12,17,21 60:1,5,7
60:11,19 61:1,4,8,21
62:2,11,13,14,15,17
62:18 63:3,4,12,15
63:24 64:2,4,7,9,11
64:14,17,20,21,24,24
65:9,11,13,15,16,19
65:22,24 66:1,4,9,12
66:14,18,25 67:2,14
67:17,18,19,22 68:2
68:6,8,9,19,20,21,23
68:25 69:1,3,5,6,7,10
70:3,5,15,23,25 71:9
71:11,13,15,16,23
75:18,21,22,24 76:1
76:4,5,7 77:13 78:3,4
78:7,11,12,15 79:7
80:12 81:2,7 82:13
82:19 83:16,17,22,25
84:1,4 85:6,9,10,11
85:14,25 86:4,7
87:21 90:3,8 94:15
94:17,20,21,24 95:2
95:6,10,12,14,15,18
95:20,22,24,25 97:12
97:15,16,18,19,24
98:2,4,6,8,11,25 99:4

1-800-325-3376

99:7,10,12,14,16,25
100:1,9,10,23 101:1
101:3,5,10,12,14,19
101:20,21,24,25
102:2,4,6,7,10,13
103:1,6,9,11,18,21
104:8,16 105:13,16
105:21 108:6,12,17
108:21,25 109:1,6,13
109:14,23 110:2,6,7
110:19,22,24 111:4,5
111:22 112:5,9 113:4
113:7,14,15 114:3,4
114:5,8,22,24 115:4
115:5,5,15,16,17,19
115:20,22 116:1
117:11 118:5,16,20
118:21,22 120:5,14
120:15,19,23 121:2,4
121:6,9,12,13,16
122:2,3,16,23 123:1
123:6,9,11,12,15,16
123:21 124:19,23
126:3,6,15,17 128:12
128:14,19 129:13,22
130:4 132:19,25
133:2,4,9,22 135:6
135:11,15,19,22
136:1,4 137:16,17,22
138:12,13,15,17,24
139:21,23,24 140:2,5
140:7,8,9,10,15,18
142:4,10,12,13,14,15
142:18,20,21 143:5,8
144:11,14,18,19,20
144:22,24 145:1,4,6
146:14,17,20 147:2,3
147:4,7,10,14,14,21
147:25 149:16,22
151:19,22,24 152:3
152:15,18,19,24
153:3,10,14,18
154:10,11,16 155:7
157:7,8,12,14,16,19
157:24 158:3 159:22
159:24 160:2,6 163:8

163:16,22,24 164:2,6
164:10,13 168:16,18
168:22,23,24 172:23
173:12,19 174:8,10
174:12 175:4 176:6,7
176:8,10,12,15
177:12,13,14,16
178:17,21 179:17,18
179:19,24,25 180:10
180:11,15 182:1,4,5
182:8,15,16,18 183:7
183:9 185:8,12,15,17
185:20,22,23 186:1
186:16,23,24,25
187:3,6,7 188:10,16
188:23 190:17,18,21
191:22 192:5,8,16,19
193:3,5 194:3,3,6,8
194:11 195:5,8,10,12
195:14,16,17,19,21
195:23 196:1,3,7,9
196:10,13,15,17,18
196:20,22,25 197:1,3
197:3 199:25 200:8
201:3,9,11,13,19,24
202:7,8,10,12,14,15
202:22,25 203:5,15
203:17,19,22,24
204:1,2,3,5,7,10
205:6,22 206:22
207:2 211:19 213:8,9
213:14,16,18,20,23
213:24 214:1,4,7,9
214:10,12,17,20,22
214:23,25 215:1,3,5
215:9,11,12,13,14,15
215:19,20,22,24
216:1,5,8,9,11,13,15
216:16,18,19 217:1,2
217:5,9,10,12,13,16
217:17,24 218:1,2,4
218:6,10,13,14,15,21
218:23 220:7,8,9,11
220:13,17,19,22,24
221:1,2,11,13,14,17
221:20,23 222:2,4,6

222:7,16 223:4,7,9
223:11,12,14,16,17
223:19,24,25 224:2,4
224:6,8,9,14,15,17
224:20 225:1
Mrs
14:13 64:7 66:5 68:25
Ms
3:14 4:10 72:17 75:1
206:17 221:18,22,25
222:8
much
32:6 39:15 83:20
102:10 118:3 127:21
224:21
multiple
131:24,25 132:16
multitude
179:1
multi-hour
79:16
Murphy
3:14 35:7 205:11,12
206:17
Murrill
3:21 102:2
must
90:11 95:12 141:8
208:25
mutually
184:14
my
8:11 10:25 14:1 16:7,7
16:25 19:11,14,19
25:2 35:5,5,6 40:21
44:10 47:6 49:21
50:2 51:24,24 52:5,6
53:5 54:11,12 55:12
56:25 57:1,11 59:15
62:13 68:3,10,18
70:12 72:11 73:16
77:22 78:18 81:18,19
82:21 84:9 86:6 87:4
87:11,14 88:11
101:17,17 102:11,15
102:16 106:18

Merrill Corporation - New York
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JEFFREY M. SEWELL - 7/30/2013
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107:21,22 110:15
111:8,17 113:8
119:24 121:14
126:17 130:6 132:6
133:12 136:21 139:1
139:12,14,19,25
140:11,21 142:5
143:24 145:14,17,22
146:15 147:2 148:25
153:10,18 154:16
157:10 164:11
165:25 168:7,7,17,17
169:25 170:1,25
171:1,5 172:14,20,22
174:20,21 175:7,20
177:7 178:22 181:23
181:23 182:6,18
183:4 184:2,3,15,25
185:1,2,3 187:24
189:11 190:8,9,11
193:9,13 194:12,16
195:23 197:10
199:12 200:4 204:21
206:7,25 207:22
209:21,21 210:23
214:1,18 216:3
218:10 220:5,13
222:22 226:19
myself
32:21 74:4 114:14
117:13
N
N
2:5 4:5,15
NAACP
1:17
name
6:25 35:6 96:25
171:16 226:19
named
14:11
names
205:9,13
nature
78:24 184:4

1-800-325-3376

necessarily
60:22 103:25
need
18:17 19:10 27:19
37:15 41:23,23 44:17
49:4 53:19 58:12
60:1 67:18 74:3,6
153:14 157:16
171:19,19 173:4
174:14 182:2 186:17
195:21,22 204:22,23
204:23 207:15 217:8
222:11,18 223:5
224:24
needed
24:20 89:10 184:6
needs
93:14,15,18
negative
31:19 33:21 46:13
116:19 117:6
negatively
116:3
negotiate
189:3
negotiating
80:10 82:16 83:1
201:17
negotiation
81:1 114:16 189:1
201:5
negotiations
79:14 80:5,13 81:4,10
82:20,22 83:3 188:14
189:6,8 201:15,20
202:1,20
neither
226:12
neutral
204:22,23
never
18:16 43:21 87:2,5,23
118:1 131:20,20
149:12 165:2,24
184:25 185:1,2
208:22,22

new
2:11 80:11 81:2,15
82:1,9,11,15 93:24
94:3 97:23 201:18
news
36:18 37:1,12 56:13
newspaper
39:10 40:10 94:1
108:15 121:7 123:24
182:25
next
10:24 41:2 81:10
110:13 140:14
164:22 189:2 202:2
202:22 203:7
night
175:20 189:16,17
190:14,15,23 194:14
199:1 216:6
nine
139:2
nine-month
209:18
no
1:6,11,16 4:17 8:22
9:9,17 11:22 13:6
14:6 15:2,10 18:20
18:24 21:5,5,10,11
21:16,17,18 23:9,10
26:5 28:25 31:11,21
38:10 40:17 45:1
46:9,11,16,17 47:3,5
47:6,7 48:5,7,8,15
49:13,16 50:2,3,25
54:6 55:1 59:1,5,15
59:15 61:8 62:22,25
63:6 65:2,23 66:12
66:17 68:1,2,9,9 69:7
69:13 70:21,22,23,24
73:6,12 75:4,17 76:2
76:4,17,21 77:1,5,9
77:12,16,20 79:1
80:6 82:5,11,12 85:9
85:10,11 87:1,11
88:22,24 89:7,21
97:15 99:12,12 100:5

100:13 102:2 105:4
105:16 106:18
111:14,16,16 112:6
114:14 115:24
116:11 117:22,22
118:6 120:9 121:6
122:8,12 123:3 126:2
128:6,17 129:24
132:8,9,12,14 136:15
137:12 142:16,20
145:3,3 146:2,3,11
150:20 151:25
153:12 154:14
155:20 157:18
159:12,14 160:10,14
161:12 162:6,6
168:15,19 169:4,8
170:21 171:17,19,21
173:19 174:10
176:13,25,25 177:1,1
177:3,3 179:20 180:1
182:7 183:23 186:9,9
187:15 188:17 190:3
193:10 195:21
196:13 199:14
200:10,20 203:21
204:2,5,19 209:7
210:6 212:12,23
213:23 214:20,20,23
215:14,19 216:13
220:3,8,11 221:25
nodding
38:19
None
45:2
nonstop
81:25
non-employees
105:11
non-party
56:13
nor
226:13,14
normal
51:23 208:8,9,11
North

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JEFFREY M. SEWELL - 7/30/2013
Page 38
3:15
NORTHERN
1:2
not
6:20 8:21,21 9:2 10:23
11:13 12:4,21 13:15
14:6,6 15:10 16:6,10
16:19,20,23 17:2,7
19:18 21:6 22:11,13
23:19 27:23 28:16
30:11,11,16 32:5,6
33:9 34:4,9,11,14,17
36:6,10,16,21 37:5
38:13 39:13 40:8,22
41:7,14 46:3,8 47:19
48:8 49:16,19,24
51:11,17 52:22 53:12
54:18 56:8,16 57:13
58:15,18 60:24 62:4
62:15 63:13 64:5,21
64:22 66:3,22 67:8
67:16 69:23,25 71:16
74:7 75:4,15 76:12
79:12,18,21,22,23,24
80:3 81:8 82:11,21
85:11 86:5,5 87:1
88:22 89:24 91:10
92:7 93:25 94:11
95:12 97:6,16 98:21
99:9,12 100:3 101:4
101:17 102:16
103:25 104:14
106:16,22 108:23
110:24 112:17,18
113:12 114:18
115:24 116:11,24
117:1,25 118:3
120:18 121:4,12
123:13,23 126:1
127:5,5 128:4,22
129:6 131:4 133:17
133:20,23 134:6,6,7
134:15,18 136:7,23
137:8,10 138:5,9,10
139:8,10,21,24
141:14,15,22 143:17

1-800-325-3376

143:18 144:19 145:2
145:13,17 148:17,17
148:18,19,19,21
152:13 155:17
158:13,13,14 160:11
161:4,16,24 162:1,6
162:25 163:2,9
165:18 166:19,20
167:2,5 168:20
169:11,19,23,23,25
170:18 172:7,14
178:22,23 179:20
180:2,25 181:16
182:4 187:18,22
188:12,20,25 189:3,7
189:11 190:7,8,9,18
190:24 191:7,8,10,15
192:7 193:17,23,24
194:22 196:7,12,13
197:8,13,17 199:11
199:12 200:2,3,13
201:2,25 203:20
204:2,19 209:17,19
209:21 210:3,6
211:14,18 212:14,19
213:1,12,21,24 214:2
214:5,18 215:1,9,10
215:12,14 216:13,20
216:23,25 217:19
218:8 219:4,11 220:5
220:6,8,11 223:24
224:18 225:4
Notary
2:3 6:2 226:25
note
18:7 41:14 66:18 90:6
153:7
notes
107:22
nothing
57:8 78:20 100:23
101:10 170:10
171:10 174:2 183:24
208:11 215:6 224:21
notice
73:18 97:21 98:2

112:21 198:23
noticed
101:15
notices
220:5
noticing
97:9,14
notification
71:7
notified
48:17
notify
93:12
November
7:25 8:1,5 10:13,24
11:9,24 73:24 74:12
105:23 107:18
118:17 121:24
139:11 182:25 183:2
now
8:15 15:11 29:6 33:24
40:10,15 46:4 51:1
53:8 55:25 68:18
70:25 81:14 82:6
84:22 88:4 90:16
94:12 98:19 110:7
113:18 121:5,7 123:8
126:20 141:18 153:5
162:10 164:2 172:16
173:8,19 174:4
180:15 181:6 186:19
189:9 192:9 199:24
200:6 208:2 216:3,8
217:17 218:7 221:7
nullifying
209:4
number
22:2 55:10 59:25
60:21 61:6 80:11
81:1 126:16 128:16
129:21 130:3,11,15
131:7,10 132:18
133:7 143:16 157:9
163:12 168:20 169:2
170:23 200:2 201:18
211:7 223:9 226:19

numbering
105:15
NY
2:11
N.W
2:19
O
object
16:1,2,23 17:5,6 20:16
28:9 36:9 37:7 38:4
41:7 48:25 56:14
60:14,23 64:17 68:10
95:10 114:3 115:15
120:5 135:15 142:10
144:17,22 154:11
163:22 173:12
177:12 179:18 182:1
218:13
objected
144:13
objecting
55:24 57:3 68:6
120:24
objection
16:9 17:22 18:3 19:5,9
19:15,15 20:3,13
22:8 23:7 34:7,16,17
36:2,14,16 37:2
38:10,22 40:18 45:7
45:14,18 46:17 48:3
54:8 58:3,14,20
63:12,25 65:11,14,17
66:9,21 69:7 70:3,23
75:18 83:16 84:1
85:5 94:15 97:24
98:1,7,9 109:13,14
111:22 112:5 114:4
115:16 117:11
132:19,25 133:2
135:6 136:1 140:18
144:11,18,24 147:21
152:1 154:10 157:24
164:2,10 168:16,22
176:6,8,12 179:17,24
180:10,11 182:15,16

Merrill Corporation - New York
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JEFFREY M. SEWELL - 7/30/2013
Page 39
185:15 199:19,23,25
202:7 206:22 213:8
218:21
objections
18:10,13,15 19:1 56:2
56:5 120:20
objectives
217:7,14
objects
16:17 21:17
obligation
91:23 92:5 174:20
203:6 215:17
obligations
83:9 92:10 218:20
obstruct
67:9
obtain
94:8
obtained
36:25 37:13
obvious
79:4
obviously
170:3
occasion
87:24 112:2 147:19
162:15
occupational
13:25
occupied
142:8
occupy
175:20
occur
98:11
occurred
23:22 94:1 98:16
179:5 190:7 191:11
202:21 208:3
October
10:23 11:9 12:25 13:4
29:6 107:18 108:16
109:12,24 110:2
113:9 114:25 117:8
121:24 180:18

1-800-325-3376

182:25
odd
141:23
of
1:2,7,14,17,23 2:14
5:3,5,6,9,9,11,12,14
5:15,17,18,18,19,19
5:21,21,22 6:3,5,6,9
7:23,25 8:1,4,5,9,15
8:20,22,24,25 9:1,10
9:12,13,23 10:13,21
11:7,9,19,19,20 12:7
12:21,25 13:2,8,9,11
13:21,22,23 14:5,8,8
14:17 15:9,13,15,20
15:22,24,25,25 16:1
16:15 17:23 18:11,17
19:18 20:15,22 22:2
22:3,3,6,15,18,18,22
23:18,21,24 24:2
25:11,11,14,16 26:1
26:4,24 27:4,6,10
28:10,15,18,23,24
29:1,14,14 31:8,23
32:5,6,8,13,18,24
33:7,14,21,24 34:9
34:16,18 35:11,15,16
36:17,22,23 37:13,25
38:7 39:10,16,16,19
39:21,24 40:11,14
41:5,7,9,13,17,25
42:4,21,24 43:1,2,9
44:1,7,13,14 45:5,15
45:15 46:13,14,24
47:11,15,21,23 48:1
48:1,11,12,16,17,25
49:3,18,21 50:2,5,13
50:17 51:6,6,9,16
52:18 53:3,4,9,10,13
54:15,22 55:10,16
56:5 57:16 58:19
59:3 60:8,12,18 61:9
61:15,18 62:7,7 63:4
63:9,25 64:23,23
66:7,15 67:6,6 68:13
68:24 69:2,4,16 70:8

70:9,19 71:5,21
72:11,21 73:21,23
74:5,12,20 76:14
77:6,10,14,18 78:23
79:12,13 80:2,4,10
80:11,20,25 81:1,9
81:14 82:2,3,8,9,20
82:22,23,23 83:2,6
83:10 84:2,8,24
85:16,25 86:1,16
87:20 88:1,16 89:16
90:5 91:4,5,7,11 92:2
92:10,14,18,22 93:2
93:4,6,12,21,24 94:3
94:13 95:6 96:6,15
96:21,22 97:1,2,10
97:11,20,21,23 98:13
98:14,15,17,25 100:2
100:4,11 101:6
103:22,23 104:1,20
104:21 105:5,6,19,22
105:24 106:5 107:1,2
107:5,6,7,17,21
108:8,10 109:5,12,25
110:3,18,25 112:2,3
112:19,24 113:4,9,25
114:20 115:11 116:7
116:9,12 117:8,14,16
117:19,19,20,21,25
118:10,25 119:2,25
121:23,24 122:1,8,11
122:14 123:6 124:5,5
124:12 125:8,15,21
126:12,13,14,16,20
126:23,24 127:5,6,9
127:24 129:19,21
130:9,11,12,15 131:9
132:18 133:7,15,21
134:2,4,12,19,20
135:13,22,23 136:6,8
136:11,15,16,16
137:13,23 138:4,13
138:18 139:11 140:6
140:11,23,24,25
141:2,5,10,12,16,17
141:17,18,23,25

142:2 143:1,2,16,16
143:17,18 146:4,10
146:11,25 147:12,16
147:18,19 148:7,9,19
148:23,24 149:9,19
149:25 150:10,20
151:2,4,9,14,15
152:4,6,22 153:3,4,8
153:20 154:2,5,9,9
154:18,23,25 155:3
155:14 156:2,9
157:20,21 158:7,10
158:11 159:1 160:9
160:12,16,23 161:1,2
161:7,13,17,24 162:2
162:4,7,8 163:19,20
163:25 164:8,14,15
165:4,7,23 166:6
167:1,6,18,22,25
168:6,9,12,20 169:3
169:11,17,23 170:16
170:19 171:15,16
172:3,10,16,17,23
173:3,5,6,12 174:5,6
174:13,15,15,22
175:6,7,12,19,23
176:11 177:15
178:10 179:2,4
180:13,16,16,23
181:7 182:20 183:2,3
183:11,11,17,17,18
184:3,19 186:3 187:9
188:3,8,11,13 189:4
189:7,12,12,16,17,25
190:1,2,6,13,14,23
191:2,6,12,13 193:9
193:13,23,25 194:14
194:17,22,23,23
196:18 197:12,20,21
197:21 198:1,13,15
198:18 199:9,18,22
199:23 200:4,5,17
201:5,8,11,16,18,25
202:4 203:9,12,13,13
204:2,13,20 205:2,4
205:8,9,12,13,18

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JEFFREY M. SEWELL - 7/30/2013
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206:11,14 207:3,8,13
207:21 208:8,9,11,13
209:4,5,9,14,17
210:12 211:7,12,14
212:1,10,22 213:3,4
213:6,11,22 214:11
216:7 217:18,20,22
218:9,19,20,24 219:1
219:5,6,14 220:17
221:4,8 222:13,19,21
223:2,8,13,15,20,25
225:7 226:3,8,10,13
226:13,15,18
off
39:8 206:9
offer
117:1 191:1
office
7:10 51:24 52:4 84:12
87:10,12,14 102:3
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1-800-325-3376

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1-800-325-3376

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1-800-325-3376

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pretrial
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32:4,13,16,25 33:3,5
33:13,17,19,24 34:3
34:5 35:2,4,10,13,17
35:20,23 36:7,11,17
37:4,10 38:12,18
39:11 40:5,8 41:20
42:3,8,18,21 43:3,7
44:18,22 45:3 46:21

1-800-325-3376

47:11,15,19,21,23,25
48:10,16 49:23 50:1
50:7,16,21 51:1,4,9
51:12,14,18 52:1,4,7
52:12,18,20,24 53:3
53:6,8,13,16 55:8
58:21,25 59:2,6,10
59:14,16,21 62:18,23
63:1,7 64:24 65:3,7
65:24 66:4,14 68:23
69:10,14,19,23 70:1
70:15,22,25 71:4,6
71:23 72:2,7,10,17
72:19,23 73:1,4,7,10
73:13,15,23 74:11,17
74:22 75:1,5,9,14
76:7,13,18,22 77:2,6
77:10,13,17,21,23
78:1 79:7,20,23 80:1
80:7,19 81:14,24
82:3,6,13,18,25 83:6
83:9,13,17,20 84:4
84:14,16,22 85:14,24
86:7,10,12,16,20,23
87:7,10,18 88:4,13
88:15,19 89:2,13,16
89:19,22,25 90:8,16
90:21,23 91:6,13,18
91:22 92:1,4,9,14,17
92:21,24 93:1,10,17
93:22 94:3,6,8,10,12
95:25 96:9,12,18,24
97:3,8,19 98:11,17
98:19 100:1,6,10,14
100:17,20 103:2,11
103:14,21 104:3,16
104:20,25 105:3,5,10
105:21 106:1,5,12,18
106:24 107:2,4,13,16
107:21 108:2,12,15
109:1,4,10,21 110:7
111:5,11,15,18 112:1
112:9,15 113:1,15,18
114:1,8,16,22 115:5
115:10 116:1,6,18
117:1 118:5,12,22

185:17 186:1,6,9,14
119:7,16,20 120:3
187:7,13 188:4
121:16,23 122:3,9,23
189:11,16 190:3,8,21
123:21 124:1,5,8,14
191:4,16 193:5,14,20
124:16,23 125:5,11
194:11,24 197:3,7,14
125:13,21,25 126:6,9
197:20 198:2,5,12,18
126:11,17,19,22
198:23,25 199:4,15
127:11,19 128:3,8,19
199:22 200:8,14,23
129:9,22 130:1 131:1
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131:13,17,22 132:6
132:12,15 133:9,22
203:13 204:10,13,20
134:1,16,22 135:4,11
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135:22 136:4,11
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137:1,6,10,15 138:24
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139:3,7,12 140:15
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209:2,8,13,23 210:6
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144:22 145:1,6,9,12
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161:21 162:3,9,20,22
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64:15,16,22 65:21
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66:10 67:1,15,25
183:6,9,14,17,21,23
68:4,22 70:21 74:19
184:5,18,22 185:5,12
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rating
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190:10 191:5,6 192:1
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32:11,16,21 33:4,6
33:12,15,15 37:5
39:12 41:20 42:2,8
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recommendations
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1-800-325-3376

recommended
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recommending
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record
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140:22 141:2
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seconds
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77:11 129:2 185:13
186:5 187:25
see
16:21 18:22 22:18
30:6 43:4 50:17,20
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seeing
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204:16
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13:3 41:18 52:8
147:15,17 153:21,24
164:5 208:23
SEIBELS
1:19
selected
11:3
selective
61:17
self-interest
204:17
send
84:8 220:4
senders
205:9

1-800-325-3376

sensationalized
112:20
sense
154:14 171:21 212:10
217:8
sent
42:11 63:3 83:21,23
176:3 205:13 206:21
207:4
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106:8 127:2,4 187:24
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116:20 117:7
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147:11,12,15,17
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5:18
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107:11
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27:1,4 79:9 88:6 92:18
172:18 208:5 221:9
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165:18
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114:13 117:15 137:13
204:3
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setting
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settlement

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seventy-five
115:13 117:9 137:7
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198:21 201:11 203:4
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210:20
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16:17,20,22,23 17:5
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42:14 45:9 50:4
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16:19 22:13 30:2
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shown
27:20
sick
128:24 217:20 218:17
219:2
side

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sign
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signed
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significant
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signify
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52:1 84:18 119:18
143:25 167:24 179:7
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situated
111:12,19
situation

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six
50:18,24 53:14 54:15
55:10 58:22 59:2,10
59:16,17,25 60:8,13
60:13,17,21 61:6,9
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16:22 17:1,6,22 18:6
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20:16,18 21:1,8 22:8
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25:19 26:20 28:9
29:2,19 30:5,10,18
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55:2,5,12 56:20
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60:11 61:1,8 62:2
63:12 64:2,9,14,17
65:11,15 66:9,18
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103:21 104:16
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105:13,16,21 108:12
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177:16 178:21
119:20 120:11
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121:23 122:9 123:8
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167:4 168:14 170:15
217:1,5,10,13,17
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1-800-325-3376

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stepping
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still
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stuff

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stupid
196:3
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talks
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tax
13:25 103:17,17

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taxes
129:2
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terminated
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1-800-325-3376

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101:7,12,13,20,23
102:13,20,21,23
103:4,24 104:9,11,13

Merrill Corporation - New York
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JEFFREY M. SEWELL - 7/30/2013
Page 55
104:18,21,22 105:7,8
105:12,13,16,22
106:1,4,10,13,22,24
107:5,9,10,19,22,24
107:25 108:3,15
109:5 110:24 111:12
111:15,20 112:1,11
112:12,17,19,21
113:2,19 114:11,12
114:16,18 116:3,9,13
116:16,22 117:6,14
117:15,18 118:25
119:1,4,4,8,9,10,14
119:17,21,22,24,25
120:2,3,4,10,12,21
120:24 121:2,3,17,19
121:19,20 122:24
123:5,19,22 124:8
125:1,7,10,13,23,24
125:25,25 126:4,15
126:25 127:1,2,11
128:1,9,12,15,15,16
128:22 129:4,4,11
130:1,6,6,8,13,14,19
130:19,20,22,23
131:10,10,14,19,22
131:23,24,24 132:2,3
132:4,5,7,8,10,11,16
132:25 133:2,6,14,18
134:9,9,11,15,16,18
134:21 135:2,13,13
135:19 136:14,16,17
136:21 137:13,18,21
138:1,13 139:9,13,13
140:22,23 141:3,3,5
141:6,10,11,25 142:5
142:6,6 143:14,22,23
143:24 145:5,7,7,15
146:1,22 147:15
148:1,2,12,13,25
149:7,16,18,25 150:2
150:3,5,7,23 151:1
151:13,14,19 152:2,5
152:9,9 153:1,8,19
153:21,21,22 154:8,9
154:20,21,21,22,23

1-800-325-3376

197:10,10,16,19,20
138:11 143:17
154:24 155:8,9,12,15
197:22,22,23 198:2,2
144:20 145:6 146:13
155:18 156:5,18,25
198:10,13,18 199:1,4
147:23 148:6,19,19
157:8,12 158:9,10,12
199:5,11,12 200:1,14
148:20,23,25 150:21
158:21,23 159:7,7,8
200:16,17,18 201:3,7
153:20 156:1,24
159:20,21,24,24
201:24,24 202:3,6,20
157:4 158:8,14,22
160:14,14,17 161:4,6
202:23 203:1,2,4,10
170:25 174:4 175:22
161:8 162:7,15,16,17
203:21 204:1,18,19
176:24 177:25 178:5
162:19,22,22,23,25
205:9,9,12,13,15,15
178:16,17 179:20,23
163:16,17,20,21
206:7,10,11,18 207:7
181:5,12 183:16
164:9,18,18,19,20,21
207:12,14,22 208:3,4
185:8 186:21 189:19
164:25 165:1,8,10,10
208:7,9,15,19,24
190:4 193:13 194:6
165:11 166:2,6,9,15
209:6,7,8,9,12,13,16
195:3 196:12,12,13
167:4,19,22,23 168:3
209:17,20,24,25
202:20 204:5 210:22
168:7,8,9,11,12,13
210:12,14,15,16,17
210:23 215:20 218:6
168:14,20,24 169:2,6
210:17,21 211:8,10
218:7,8 222:5,16
169:10,17,18,21,21
211:11,14,20,20
224:11,20
170:5,10,14,16,21,22
212:1,4,14,18,22
the
170:22,24 171:4,8,8
213:1,6,7 214:14,21
171:11,13 172:5,21
1:1,2 2:6 3:2,9 6:2,4,5
215:9,9,17,17 216:2
173:6,9,9,15,20,25
6:7,8,10,11,18,25 7:8
216:6,23,23,24 217:7
174:1,2,6,7,9,16,18
7:10,11,11,12,13,17
217:13,15,19,23
174:18,25 175:2,9,13
7:17,23 8:2,18,23 9:4
218:3,7,8,8,17,18
175:16,20,23 176:2,7
9:6,10,12,23 10:1,6,7
219:10,11,17,21,23
176:10,11 177:5,24
10:7,8,10,10,21,21
220:1,7 221:3,3,4,12
177:24,25 178:3,5,11
10:24 11:3,5,6,7,9,11
221:16,23 222:11,12
178:14 179:1,2,19,21
11:13,15,18,18,20,21
222:14,18,19,20
179:22,25 180:6,6,13
11:24,24,25 12:7,7
223:4,6,10,21,24
181:3,8,9,10,13,15
12:10,10,13,15,15,23
224:1,3,4,12 226:5,9
181:15,21 182:8,9,12
13:5,8,8,10,13,16,18
226:12,16
182:13,20,21 183:3,3
13:20,21,21,22,23,24
that's
183:10,11,14,15
13:24,25 14:1,3,4,4,5
184:1,3,10,13,15,16
14:7,8,18,25,25 15:7
9:1 10:15 12:8 19:7,9
184:17,19 185:6
15:8,11,19,19,20,22
21:14 25:2 38:6
186:1,5,8,9,10,12,14
15:23,23,25 16:1,1,2
39:11 41:9 49:13
186:15 187:1,4,5,8,8
16:6,12,18,21 17:4,8
54:6 55:14 56:6,18
187:11,20 188:1,23
17:9,19,21,23,24
58:10 62:3,9 64:21
188:24 189:3,13,16
18:2,6,8,9,11,14,19
65:13 66:17 68:19
189:16,18,22,24
18:21,25 19:4,9,16
70:15,21,22 71:16
190:7,8,9,9,12,14,14
19:18,20,23 20:7,8
75:2 81:13 95:20,22
190:15,15,22,24
20:15,15,17,20,22,22
101:10 103:6 104:12
191:2,4,7,8,10,12,13
21:5,5,6,9,10,11,18
105:17 106:12 108:5
191:16 192:2,16,17
21:18,19,22,23 22:1
110:21 113:4 116:24
192:18 193:3,24
22:3,9,12,12,15,17
117:20 121:4 125:3
194:1,2,4,14,18,21
22:18,21,22,23 23:1
125:22 126:17 127:8
194:22,23 195:1,6
23:1,7,11,14,14,14
128:15 130:22,25
196:5,7,8 197:4,5,7,9
23:17,21,24 24:2,3,7
131:17 133:25
Merrill Corporation - New York
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JEFFREY M. SEWELL - 7/30/2013
Page 56
24:11,13,15,16,19,20
24:23,23 25:23 26:1
26:3,7,11,12,21,22
26:24 27:3,3,4,6,8,10
27:11,13,13,15,24
28:1,6,9,10,15,22,23
28:25 29:4,6,9,14,20
29:21,22 30:5,21
31:5,5,8,13,23 32:1,5
32:6,13,16,17,21,24
33:6,6,7,14,15,19,20
33:24,25 34:5,9,16
34:17,18,21 35:5,8
35:10,20,24,24,24,25
36:5,7,8,11,12,13,18
36:19,19,21,24,24
37:1,7,12,13,18,24
38:2,7,8,9,15,15,16
39:4,7,9,10,10,11,15
39:19 40:6,8,9,10,23
41:2,3,3,4,6,7,9,14
41:14,16,17,17,18,20
41:21,24,25 42:3,4,5
42:9,10,11,12,16,18
42:22,23,25 43:8,12
43:17,19,20,21,25
44:2,12,14,15,16
45:5,11,12,14,15,15
46:1,14,15,22,23
47:4,13 48:12,22,25
49:1,6,10,11,15,15
49:18,18 50:18,21,22
50:23 51:1,4,5,5,6,14
51:15,16,24 52:7,8
52:18,22,24 53:3,3,4
53:4,9,10,10,13,16
54:4,5,12,12,15,19
54:19,20 55:2,3,9,13
55:16,16,17,18,19,20
55:21,24,25 56:3,15
56:16,17,18,22,23,24
56:25 57:2,3,5,11,12
57:13,15,21,23 58:1
58:2,4,6,8,10,11,13
58:14,19,20,22 59:3
59:9,19 60:3,8,11,12

1-800-325-3376

60:15,15 61:2,12,13
61:16,17,18,19,22
62:6,7,19 63:2,7,10
63:12,16,18,18,19,20
63:21 64:8,14,16,18
64:18,19,21,25 65:3
65:8,12,20,21,24,25
66:1,7,9,15,19,19,20
66:21,23 67:3,6,7,10
67:11,18 68:10,11,15
68:16,17,24 69:1,4,8
69:8,11,15,15,15,24
70:1,3,8,9,14 71:5,5
72:5,12,12,13,16,19
72:21 73:1,2,8,10,23
74:9,11,13,13,18,19
74:22,23 75:1,9,12
75:20 76:2,8,13,18
76:20,24,25 77:6,14
77:21 78:7,12,13
79:3,5,7,12,13,13
80:1,2,3,4,4,9,20,21
80:24,25 81:8,9,9,10
81:14,16 82:16,19,24
83:10,20,21,23,23,24
84:1,2,4,5,6,7,8,16
84:22,23,24 85:3,6,8
85:15,15,16,19,25,25
85:25 86:2,9,9,12,16
86:20,23,24 87:1,3,5
87:5,7,15,18,20 88:5
88:11,13,15,25 89:1
89:8,16 90:3,4,7,10
90:18,21 91:2,3,5,13
91:13,14,19,20,23,24
92:1,2,10,14,17,18
92:24 93:2,2,3,5,10
93:13,20,21,23 94:13
95:3,4,6,9,15,20,22
95:25 96:1,6,6,9,12
96:13,14,18,20,21,21
97:3,4,9,10,11,20,21
97:22 98:2,13,14,15
98:17,22 99:1,2,2,6,9
99:20,23,23 100:3,7
100:21,25 101:1,3,14

102:3,11,24 103:3,3
103:7,7,10,11,14,15
103:15,16,19,22,22
103:23,23,25 104:1,1
104:11,13,14,14,17
104:20 105:6,14,15
105:21 106:1,2,5,6,8
106:8,8,9,13,15,16
106:20,20,23 107:4,6
107:6,7,7,9,11,14,23
107:25 108:7,8,18
109:5,8,9,10,11,16
109:18,18,19,24,25
109:25 110:2,3,8,12
110:17 111:6,9,21,24
112:3,4,6,7,7,9,11,21
113:10,11,13,16,23
114:11,12,13,13,25
115:2,6,10,11,15,17
115:24 116:7,8,11,14
117:4,6,7,14,14,16
117:16,17,18,18,19
117:20 118:25 119:2
119:18,20,21 120:5
120:14 121:7,8,25,25
122:1,5,10 123:4,7
123:13,18,22 124:3,5
124:5,9,17,17,18,22
124:23 125:1,2,5,6,7
125:8,14,15,16,17,18
125:20,21,21,23
126:4,5,6,11,13,14
127:4,5,5,6,6,7,9,9
127:12,13,17,18,18
127:19,22,23,24,24
128:1,3,5,19,19
129:7,8,9,11,17,21
129:22 130:2,7,9,11
130:13,15,19,21,22
130:23,24 131:3,7,9
131:9,11,17,20,21,22
131:25,25 132:3,7,9
132:9,15,16,18,20,21
132:24 133:1,3,6,7,9
133:10,14,22 134:2,3
134:3,9,12,15,19,19

134:20,24 135:12,15
135:23 136:2,7,8,13
136:16,16,18,23
137:1,4,13,13,20,22
137:23,23,24,24
138:4,5,18,19,21
139:3,4,14,23,25
140:6,13,14,19,19,20
140:21,24,24,25
141:1,2,3,7,7,8,8,10
141:11,12,15,17,17
141:18,20,20,23,24
141:24,25 142:8,8,9
142:10,14 143:1,1,1
143:2,5,7,10,11,13
143:21,24 144:2,5,5
144:15,15 145:6,14
145:16,19,19,20,20
145:21 146:1,2,3,5
146:10,10,11,16,21
146:23 147:6,8,11,12
147:19,23 148:1,5,7
148:9,10,11,18,21,24
149:3,7,10,11,12,18
149:20 150:8,10,13
150:14,20 151:2,4,11
151:15,21 152:4,6,15
153:3,5,6,7,11,16,16
154:2,4,4,18,20
155:9,13,14,22,24,25
156:2,6,6,8,13,16,18
156:20,20 157:1,2,4
157:5,9,15,18,21,25
158:2,3,7,12,20,21
158:22,22,24 159:7,8
159:10,13,17,23
160:1,3,5,6,8,12,15
160:19,23,25 161:1,2
161:3,10,18,22,25
162:2,3,4,7,7,10,13
162:13 163:3,7,8,10
163:14,16,18,19,19
163:22,24,24 164:1,3
164:5,8,12,14,15,16
164:22,23,24 165:4,7
165:8,10,12,23 166:1

Merrill Corporation - New York
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JEFFREY M. SEWELL - 7/30/2013
Page 57
166:2,2,8,10,11,12
166:14,15,16,18,19
166:19,22,22,23
167:1,2,3,6,7,10,10
167:13 168:2,3,4,4,6
168:8,8,9,12,13,19
168:20 169:2,2,6,10
169:14,15,15,16,19
169:23 170:4,5,5,7,8
170:12,12,13,16,18
170:18,20,22,24
171:1,2,5,9,11,12,15
171:16,16,18,25,25
172:1,2,3,4,6,6,9,10
172:11,13,16,16,17
172:23,25 173:2,3,3
173:4,5,8,12,13,14
173:16 174:5,12,13
174:13,14,18,18,19
175:7,9,9,10,12,15
175:16,19,22 176:1,2
176:5,10,21,21,21,22
176:23,23 177:1,2,3
177:5,6,10,12,14,23
177:24,24 178:2,7,8
178:9,9,22 179:8,12
179:13,14,18 180:1,1
180:1,2,6,9,15,16,18
180:22,24,24 181:7,7
181:14,19 182:1,7,9
182:12,13,21,25
183:1,2,3,10,11,11
183:17 184:6,8,11,15
184:16 185:2,3,13
186:2,3,11,12,16,18
186:19 187:4,8,9,14
187:17,18,19,21,22
187:23,23,24,25
188:3,3,4,4,5,8,8,9
188:11,12,13,16,19
188:20,21,24 189:2,4
189:4,6,8,12,15,16
189:16,17,19,23,24
189:25,25 190:1,2,6
190:6,10,11,12,13,13
190:14,22,23,23

1-800-325-3376

191:3,8,11,12,13,18
191:20,24 192:6,7,7
192:9,12,14,17,17,20
192:21,22 193:1,5,6
193:10,10,14,18,24
193:25 194:4,5,8,12
194:12,13,14,15,16
194:17,21,24 195:10
195:12,14 196:15,18
197:3,12,16,16,21
198:1,13,15,17,18,19
198:22,23 199:7,12
199:17,18,19,20,23
200:1,2,5,13,16,17
200:25 201:1,2,5,5,8
201:11,16,25 202:1,1
202:2,3,22,23,23
203:1,2,2,3,7,9,12,16
203:20,22 204:13,15
204:20,20 205:1,8,9
205:9,12,15,18,19,22
205:25 206:1,2,5,8,9
206:14,19,21,23,24
207:2,3,4,7,8,8,13,15
207:17,19,21,21
208:1,3,4,6,8,9,13,13
208:14,17,17 209:3,5
209:5,9,10,14,14,18
210:1,11,12,14,15,15
210:19 211:1,5,6,12
211:16,21 212:4,8,10
212:22 213:11,21,22
214:5,10,13 215:18
215:20 216:7,7,19,20
217:6,10,11,18 218:9
218:12,13,16,19,20
218:24 219:2,9,14,17
219:19,21,23 220:4,6
221:3,4,8,10,14,15
221:18,19 222:3,5,9
222:11,12,13,18,19
222:20 223:1,2,3,13
223:13,15,20,21,22
224:1,2,12,14,16,23
224:24,25 225:2,7
226:5,7,9,10,13,13

226:14,17,19
theory
their
77:25 78:2,3,8 79:3
9:22,24 10:2,11 24:8
182:8 205:15
36:16,22 84:12,15
there
116:15 117:15 119:3 6:6 8:8,10,10,23 10:19
121:18 140:3 141:19
10:20,20 11:2,4,6,17
158:7 166:17 167:7
13:17 18:4,4,20,24
189:7 205:19 206:24
19:6 20:25 21:3
them
27:24 28:4,11,17
8:15 22:23 32:12 48:1
32:5 41:15,22 45:13
52:18 63:9 66:15
49:17,20,24 50:3
68:18 69:4,19 70:7
51:2 52:22,24 54:18
70:19 77:10 93:1
54:22,23 61:24 62:11
96:15,18,22 97:2
66:22 69:11,14,19
113:25 121:1 134:1
75:11 81:25 83:3
170:17 175:7 178:16
84:8 88:7,9,24 89:4,7
186:21,24 187:1
89:10,22,24 90:17,23
188:1 190:24 194:9
90:24 95:2,16 97:8
194:10 198:7 214:2
98:20 99:16 100:2
224:5
101:8 102:2,19
themselves
104:22 106:14 107:4
107:16 108:13 110:8
132:18
110:9,25 111:11
then
113:22,23 114:14
7:10,12 9:13 10:13
116:2 117:22,22
16:9 17:2,9,11 20:19
118:25 119:1 120:6
21:5,8 30:19 35:8
123:24 126:1 131:11
38:4,6 41:7 44:2,6,8
131:18,22 132:4,6,11
54:3,3 57:24 58:18
132:12,13 133:20
61:13 62:12 63:17
134:7 136:15 140:22
66:20 67:19,20 78:24
141:6,12,14 142:21
91:7 94:22 95:12
142:22 144:1 146:3
97:25 118:12 119:7
150:7,12,22,23 151:6
126:10 127:20
151:8 158:5,18,23
149:20,24 150:6
160:18 161:13,19
156:23 162:17,18
162:16 165:17
174:5 175:5 178:23
166:15 167:20,20
181:8 192:25 195:23
170:11,11 175:5,13
197:15 198:12 200:6
175:16,22 176:13,16
207:17 208:14
178:1 179:1,1 180:7
215:24 217:7 220:4
180:8,9,12,20 183:18
223:22 224:13,17
185:14,20,22 186:13
Theo
187:3 191:18 193:18
8:16 9:13 12:4 35:7
194:23 195:11
205:10
199:15,16,22 200:20
Theodore
201:6 208:11,16,25
4:2

Merrill Corporation - New York
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JEFFREY M. SEWELL - 7/30/2013
Page 58
211:6,11,13,23,24
58:15 78:13 100:21
221:3 222:10,17
128:9 180:13 202:22
therefore
216:19,20 224:24
57:12 60:23,23 153:5 things
therein
8:23 9:2 50:17 70:12
116:23 124:13
108:19
158:15 169:18 175:9
thereto
175:19,23 179:7
226:7
184:3 187:1 192:20
there's
196:11 208:8 209:9
8:22 20:2 38:22 40:17
213:2
45:13 50:18 54:1
think
61:14 82:12 95:18
10:13,20,23,24,25
119:7 120:9 121:16
13:17 17:8 18:14,17
128:6 132:8,8 142:2
21:15,19 27:9 35:19
151:22,25 153:7
37:4 38:6,15,17
170:10 186:9 195:11
39:10 41:6 43:23
203:21
44:4 45:1 47:3,8
these
49:9 51:7,24 52:5,5
40:25 56:2 57:16
53:16 54:17,19 60:17
61:16 63:13,14,22
63:22 65:13 66:12,25
64:3 100:11 120:20
71:15 72:25 73:4,9
127:24 131:9 147:19
73:10 74:4 78:4
147:20 151:16 152:7
82:13 83:9 84:16
171:22,24 192:3,13
85:2 86:15,22 87:12
195:24,25 196:23
88:11 89:8,9 92:9
214:2
93:12 97:8 98:2,15
they
99:10 100:10 101:25
9:18 29:8,8 32:7 38:4
103:9 104:7,8,13,23
39:12,15 40:13 41:6
105:8,12 106:20
41:13,18 45:10 59:23
108:1 114:7 116:22
60:12 63:21 66:6
119:17,17 121:2
69:25 70:8 80:3
123:16,19 125:24
81:16,21 82:3,4
127:16,17 128:1
84:12 92:16 96:16,22
132:6 133:25 137:8
115:20 127:8 133:19
138:6,17 144:12
141:9,22 166:18
145:23 146:13
167:11,14 186:16
147:16,22,23 148:3
188:1,25 189:3,6,8
149:16,22 150:21
190:24 198:6 199:2,4
151:22 158:16 161:8
209:15 217:14
161:12,15 163:6,6,14
218:24 219:1
163:23 168:12,13
they're
170:7,7 178:5,25
16:13 41:1 121:9,10
180:20 181:9 184:13
127:8 178:17 185:6
186:10,16 187:3
thing
192:25 193:22,23
17:21 18:17 38:6 40:8

1-800-325-3376

194:1,3,9 195:3,6
138:1,2,4,6 139:12
199:13 206:12
139:22 140:5 145:18
208:20,25 209:1,12
147:14,18,19,25
210:7 211:7 217:8,13
149:4,8,23 152:3
218:6,18 219:16
153:4,24,24,24
223:5,8,22
154:19,21 155:12
thinking
156:8,18,21 158:21
159:3,15 160:14,21
39:12,14 98:19 100:1
161:4,6,7,12,14,17
157:8 210:5,7
161:20,24 162:18
thinks
165:16,22 166:19,20
54:4,14
167:25 171:23,24
third
172:19,24 173:21
17:4 55:16
174:3,9,11 175:2
this
179:10,11 180:7
6:4 9:7,8 10:9 12:6,12
181:7 182:19 183:10
14:20 15:7 16:12,14
183:17 184:4,10,12
16:16,20 26:10 32:8
185:21 186:21 187:2
36:25 40:13,19 41:5
187:15 188:2 189:13
43:5,7,9,13,17 44:5
190:11 191:8 192:4,6
45:14 46:8,16 49:19
192:11 193:23
50:14 51:18 53:8,11
194:17 195:22
55:14,20 56:19,23
199:19,23 200:8
57:4,17,24 60:17
201:1,2 203:25
67:9,15 68:4 70:13
204:21 206:25 207:7
72:7,16 77:17 78:18
207:11,13 208:4,10
78:20 88:2 90:23
208:12 212:4 213:11
94:18 95:15 99:18
213:16 214:4,7,16
100:18 102:13,21
215:6,6,14,16 216:1
105:21,24 107:9,13
216:12,20,25 217:13
108:20 109:1,10,15
217:15 219:14,17
109:17 110:11,16
220:1 223:19 224:1
112:2,10 113:2,5,9
224:25 225:1
113:15 114:1 115:6,8
116:7,13,18 117:6,21 Thomas
3:13
117:23,23 118:2,17
118:24 120:6,6,15,16 Thornton
14:12,13
120:20 121:23
122:18,23 123:2,2,3 those
11:20 31:8 32:11 44:1
123:10,17,21,22,25
69:23 79:17 83:3
124:1,16,22 125:5,15
103:18 115:22,23
125:19,21 126:11,12
133:18 137:23 139:4
127:2 128:15 129:4,8
148:16 149:19
129:17,19,20 130:4
158:15 167:8 179:22
130:17,18 133:23
191:17,19 198:25
134:2,6,8,15,23,25
202:6,8,10,12
135:23 137:9,18

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Page 59
though
62:1 80:13 81:4 175:1
189:5 201:20 215:2
thought
30:12 31:13 39:7 41:8
76:2 120:23 129:14
129:19 137:10 144:9
164:16 170:24 190:4
195:1 210:2,4 212:1
212:7 220:9
thoughts
158:7
thousand
115:14 117:10 139:2
threat
73:7 114:15 117:23
185:6
threatening
112:17
three
16:16 50:17,24 64:3
89:16 115:13 117:8
137:4,6,11 181:20
205:18 206:23
three-day
80:10,25 201:17
throat
89:1
through
8:13,14 46:24 110:13
124:19 136:17,18
143:3 166:9 167:25
174:9 179:14 198:1
213:12 215:25
Throughout
104:16
throw
108:3
throwing
218:2
thrown
129:18 130:18
tied
62:13
till
65:7 87:4 101:23

1-800-325-3376

time
7:3,8,13,18,22 8:9 9:4
9:10,13 11:21 21:13
29:11 31:5 32:13,15
46:19,22 57:13 61:11
67:7 73:1,2,10 82:3
83:20,21,23 89:11
91:13 99:24 100:24
102:5 104:16 109:5
113:19 117:4 120:4
121:15,20,22,23
127:24 130:21
135:23 141:3 145:19
145:19 154:1 157:21
159:7 163:21 175:20
180:22,23 181:15
184:14,23 187:15
189:18 192:25
194:12 199:2 200:2
201:3 203:25 204:4
220:13 221:14
224:22
times
83:4 103:3 131:14,24
132:16 142:17
173:13 179:5 198:21
202:18 204:17
timing
113:11
title
108:7 110:3 113:10,11
115:1
titled
50:8
to
5:5,7,17 6:4 7:20 8:3
8:24 9:3,15,18,21,22
10:1,6,7,8,10,11 11:5
11:19 12:5,5,12,13
12:13 13:23,24 15:7
15:22 16:1,2,7,10,18
16:19,20 17:2,10
18:10,15,16,17,18,21
19:1,3,4,12,14,15,19
19:20 20:13,14,18,21
20:24 21:1,6,9,11

22:11,13,22,22,23,25
23:1,7,14 24:13,13
24:14,18,19,22,24
26:1,2,7,12 27:16,16
28:5,9,12,13,16,19
29:1,17,17 30:8,14
30:15,16,17,24 32:1
32:5,7 33:25 34:5,10
34:11,12,14,14,24
35:15,20 36:6,8,10
36:15,16 37:7,8,15
37:23 38:4,5,12,25
39:25 40:6,8,12,23
41:7,7,15,17,23,23
41:24 42:2,4,17,20
42:23 43:3,8,9,12,16
43:23,24 44:2,3,15
44:17,20,23,23 45:4
45:12,18 46:2,8,18
46:18,19 47:11,15,25
48:1,7,10,11,20,25
49:1,4,9 50:8,11
51:20 52:16,20 53:3
53:8,19,21,23 54:2,3
54:22 55:13,14,21,23
55:23,24 56:2,4,6,7
56:10,13,13,14,16,16
56:17,18,18,22,24
57:2,8,13,22,23 58:3
58:11,12,15,15,15,17
58:18,22 59:3,7 60:1
60:5,6,14,24 61:1,2,2
61:4,6,6,9,10,11,17
61:20,21,22 62:2,10
62:15 63:12,13,16
64:2,3,5,6,9,22 65:1
65:3,4,8 66:11,16,18
66:22 67:3,8,9,11,15
67:18,23,24,25 68:4
68:10,14,18 69:8,9
70:3,5,9,12,13,14
71:9,17,19 72:4 73:5
73:7 74:3,6,13,22
75:6,23,23 76:9,20
76:22,25 77:17 78:17
78:17,19 79:2,5,20

80:1,13,17 81:3,15
82:1,9,24 83:10,16
83:19,23 84:1,6,8
85:2,4,4,18,21,22
86:1,2,23 87:2,20
88:1,3,10,12,16,23
89:4,10,11,20,22,25
90:3,9,14,14,21
91:19,23,23 92:5,5,7
93:2,5,12,14,15,18
94:13,15,17,22,23
95:13 96:4,5,5,6 97:4
97:6,10,12,13,20,22
98:4,12,13,14,16,20
98:21,23 99:17 100:3
100:6,18 101:5,6,9
101:11,15 102:5,13
102:15,15,15,16,17
104:10 105:9,10,14
105:25 106:9,11,18
106:22 107:10,22,24
108:3,17,21,23
109:16,21 110:8,12
110:13,15 111:1,13
111:16,18,20,24
112:3,5,15,17,18,21
113:13 114:1,3,4
115:12,13,13,15,16
116:7,11,24,25 117:1
117:5,9,11,17,24,24
118:7,8,14,19,23
119:3,8,19,24 120:5
120:10,11 121:3,18
121:24 122:18,21
123:4,5,6,8,12,18,22
124:4,9,11,19,25
125:6,16,17,18,20
126:7,25 127:5,7,9,9
127:10,15,22,23,23
128:9,11,20,25 129:1
129:8,13,15,16 130:4
130:10,13,24 131:19
131:20,25 132:7,8,9
132:17,19,25 133:2
134:3,11,18,19,20,21
134:21,23,25 135:2,6

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JEFFREY M. SEWELL - 7/30/2013
Page 60
179:13,17,18,24
135:8,9,9,15,16,17
180:6,10 181:1,4,5,9
135:24 136:1,7,12,14
181:16,20 182:1,2,9
136:18,20,21,22
182:15,18 183:1
137:23 138:1,3,5,7,9
184:2,3,5,6,6,8,10,11
138:21 139:18,21
184:14,15,16,16,17
140:10,13,14,18,20
185:7,8,15,21 186:9
141:6,13,14,15,18
186:10,10,14,20,25
142:1,6,10,15 143:24
187:15,18,25 188:2,6
144:8,11,13,17,22,24
188:9,17,20,25 189:3
145:1,11,11,19,22
189:19 190:14,16,25
146:7 147:2,7,21
191:1,2,16,17,18,20
148:1,9,10,11,17,18
191:23,24 192:2,3,6
148:24 149:1,3,7,16
192:10,11,12,14,14
149:17,20,21 150:4,8
192:19,19,21,25,25
150:10,13,19 151:1
193:1,7,17,24 194:2
151:11,16 152:1,7,19
194:12,17,19,20,24
152:20,25,25 153:1
195:1,8,15,18,21,22
153:14 154:3,5,10,14
196:4,11,15,15,22
154:20,21,22 155:5,6
197:8,8,12,13,15,17
155:6,7,9,12 156:1,4
198:11,21 199:3,10
156:8,17 157:5,24
199:11,12,12,12,19
158:5,22 159:8,10,17
199:23,25 200:3,4,7
159:18,19 160:1,7,12
200:10,13,18,19,20
160:19,25 161:6,8,10
201:3,5,8,8,14,19
161:14,15,18,19,21
202:7,16,19 203:4,10
161:21,24 162:1,18
203:20,20,24 204:14
162:24 163:17,22
204:18,22,23,24
164:1,10,11,13,14,16
205:16 206:15,20,22
164:24 165:8,19,21
207:6,10 208:2,5,6
165:23 166:2,10,11
208:17,18,25 209:15
166:21,23 167:2,7,8
209:20 210:20
167:16,16,17 168:16
211:11 212:19 213:8
168:19,22 169:1,5,9
213:13,14 214:1,4,5
169:16,17,19,20
214:5,13,15,17,18
170:16,18 171:2,5,7
215:1,3,6 216:6,7,12
171:11,12,18,19,22
216:23,25 217:10,11
171:24 172:4,11,14
217:14,17,18,21
172:21 173:2,5,9,12
218:13,21,23 219:6
173:15,17 174:1,2,11
220:10 221:7,7 222:3
174:14,20,22 175:1
222:11,11,12,18,18
175:11,13,14,14,17
223:1,5,5,7,17,21
175:18,22 176:6,8,12
224:18,24 226:13,13
176:21,23 177:12,15
today
177:17,19,22,23
178:1,2,5,9,10,25
41:5,8 57:14 98:20
179:2,7,10,11,12,13
100:2 104:4 117:5

1-800-325-3376

143:25 179:4,8 181:6
182:19 197:4 202:17
206:18 207:13
209:13 211:19
218:19,25 219:2,6
today's
214:1
together
129:18 130:18
told
30:1 32:6 44:4 80:3
87:23,24 135:17
149:22 173:14
184:12 188:1 190:24
197:8 202:25 210:1,2
218:16
Tony
28:23 180:19
too
37:20 39:14 104:9
119:5 129:23 147:9
178:18
took
14:4 44:7 90:16
140:19 141:7 149:25
203:23
top
110:4 217:20
topic
16:12 45:15 109:10,15
109:17 204:18 216:3
topics
45:9 70:9
total
130:11,15
toward
40:25 107:24
track
179:3 221:16
transcribed
226:8
transcript
148:23,24 172:16
192:6,7 195:6,11,12
195:14 200:25
202:23 226:10

transcription
226:9
transmitted
84:6 175:21 176:5
177:10
traveled
81:15,22
treat
117:17 140:24
treated
117:20 131:24 141:23
trial
12:24 13:1,8,14 15:4
15:12,19,20,23 23:17
23:21,24 24:2,7
25:23 90:25 91:6,13
99:3
tried
9:2 11:19 201:3
trigger
38:7
true
33:17 112:15 129:4,5
129:6 176:7 178:3
189:14,19 190:22
191:2,4,7 215:9,10
217:19,23 226:10
trust
78:15 87:25
truth
183:1 196:18
try
19:21 43:3 68:21
90:14 91:23 102:15
109:21 127:9 152:1
177:22
trying
61:10 63:13 67:8,23
83:19 96:5 113:13
117:1 139:18 150:4
154:3 158:22 160:12
175:17,18 179:12
180:6 181:4 194:19
195:8 203:20 215:3
217:18 223:17
Tuesday

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JEFFREY M. SEWELL - 7/30/2013
Page 61
151:7 156:1 189:2
201:7,12
turn
17:1
turned
27:22 39:8
two
51:6,16 52:18 84:20
139:1 141:6 151:16
152:7 158:15 166:8
179:22
two-page
181:17
type
8:20 146:4 153:4
typed
148:2,25
typically
18:8
U
uh-huh
38:18 50:19 52:3
129:10 136:5
ultimate
125:7
ultimately
28:19 89:13
unanimous
141:12,14
unaware
133:21
unblemished
88:1
unclear
109:16 110:10
uncommon
112:18
under
16:7 27:17 44:1 50:17
50:18,23 72:10,12
74:2,7 83:10 125:8
149:19 166:16
210:20 218:20
underlies
130:19

1-800-325-3376

understand
19:8 21:19 29:2 35:15
39:2 58:12 63:25
66:1,3,6,14 67:15
68:24 69:3,10 76:23
104:23 127:2 128:7
129:7 132:11 135:12
136:14 150:5 152:2
152:12 154:12
158:16 165:2 166:13
175:25 177:20
180:22 187:7 190:5
199:21 200:24
223:11
understanding
53:5 63:1 76:14,19
77:18,24,25 78:18
79:1 93:23 136:11
140:22 206:7 207:1
understood
18:16,19 62:14,17
92:1 109:4 141:25
187:11 219:21
undertook
38:5,13
underway
91:2
unfair
152:19
unfiled
99:4
Unfortunately
39:7
uniform
73:2
unintentionally
78:16
unique
112:2
uniquely
139:15
United
1:1,7 2:14 9:6 101:2,3
134:13 136:16
University
143:2

unlawful
90:13 194:20 197:5,9
197:13,17 217:22
unless
20:21 173:15 214:22
unofficial
148:22 172:19
unreasonable
58:14
unredacted
53:21
unrelated
70:12,13,14
unsealed
99:4
until
12:6,9 43:22 56:3
73:18 87:3 105:23
123:8,8 139:8,11
149:13 199:1
up
8:13,13 17:11 27:20
27:20 34:12 43:13
46:3,23 49:4 63:18
65:7 89:5 96:25
110:22,25 111:15
112:1,6,7 117:15
121:24 137:14 138:5
148:13 149:4 150:3
174:8 177:14 178:15
179:15 187:1 198:25
204:23,24 214:14
216:12,14
upheld
209:9
uphold
24:23
upon
17:9 91:15 226:11
Urban
3:6
us
8:24 43:8,16 57:20
61:12 78:17 120:10
149:7 206:18,19
use

11:18 28:9 70:5
148:25 185:7
used
26:22 33:15 122:5
170:13
useful
135:14
using
83:13,17 158:20
utilities
129:3
U.S
9:23 11:25 13:5 36:13
90:18
V
V
9:23 12:1 13:5 36:13
90:18
vacate
111:13,16,19,20
vacated
111:17
vacation
128:24 211:6
vague
103:6 109:15 113:5
Vaguely
13:2,11 205:1
valid
100:12
validate
120:11
validity
58:19 74:20 194:17
213:22
value
32:7
valued
32:8
variety
47:21,23
various
30:21 32:12 70:12
vehicle
72:11 184:25 185:1

Merrill Corporation - New York
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JEFFREY M. SEWELL - 7/30/2013
Page 62
187:24
verbal
88:10 187:16 188:17
200:11
verse
169:14
versed
212:13
version
50:22 51:4 152:10
153:23 162:14,24
164:7,11,14,23 165:6
165:16 166:10,11
221:4
versus
9:6
very
24:7 25:18 31:17 95:3
102:10 131:19
140:15 142:1 161:20
180:13 184:16 188:1
189:2 224:21
Vestavia
3:7
VIA
2:16,17
victim
217:22
view
30:3 92:10 97:20
191:17
viewed
83:6
views
29:13
violate
96:2 197:12
violated
215:17
violates
194:21
violation
14:8 15:25
violations
22:3,18
virtue

1-800-325-3376

135:19 191:18
wanting
117:5
wants
75:23
warned
36:25
warrant
175:15 191:1
Warren
175:14
was
6:15 7:8,9,9,17,25 8:1
9:20,24 10:5,16,18
10:19,20,23,24,25
W
11:2,6,13,19 12:6,9
W
12:21 13:25 14:1
3:11,13
15:12,24 18:3,4,4
Wagner
19:15,17 20:8 21:24
8:15 9:12,14,22 10:7
22:7 23:9 25:14,18
12:2,9
25:20 27:3,7,9,13,15
wait
27:17 28:4,11,15,17
54:10 87:4 153:14
28:21 30:5 31:9,12
181:1
31:17 33:7,17,20
waiting
34:8 35:5,6,13,24
87:3
37:25 39:1,6,20 40:3
waive
42:5,15,25 43:23
191:24 192:12 193:1
44:9,14 45:1 46:10
waived
48:18,22 49:7,11,20
223:22
50:4 51:2,15,19,23
waiver
52:5,6,16,19,20,22
61:14
52:24,25 53:1,2,2,3,5
want
53:6,14 54:18 55:3
11:5 39:24 53:23 61:4
58:1 59:24 60:3,10
64:4,9 92:7 105:14
61:24,24 62:20 63:4
106:22 123:6 138:9
63:10 64:8,12,16,22
147:7 159:18 161:21
65:9,21 66:1,16,22
165:21 173:17
68:24 69:1,4,11,14
184:14 188:6 191:16
69:19 70:11 71:20
192:10,11 193:17
72:11,13,20 73:1,2,2
195:15 196:4,15,16
73:4,19 75:3 76:25
208:2 214:15,17
78:7,9 79:2,4,5,5,16
216:22 221:7
79:25 80:15 81:6
wanted
82:8,11 83:3,19 84:4
27:16 85:2,4,4,21 86:1
84:5,14,18,20,21
111:24 135:2,9,13,16
85:7 86:5,5,7 87:1,2
104:21
voice
103:23 222:22
volume
178:10
vote
11:7 88:7,8,11,12 89:6
141:12,14 208:14,16
208:17,25 209:25
210:12,15
voted
131:20 209:15
voting
96:14,16,20,22

87:3,4,21 88:7,9,11
88:13,17,21,22,22,23
88:23,24 89:4,7,9,13
90:9,17,21,23,24,24
91:5,7,22 92:1,11
93:11,20,22 94:2,25
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158:21,23,24 159:5,7
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161:3,4,9,12,17,24
162:1,3,6,6,15,16
163:20 164:8,11,14
164:18,18,19,20,20

Merrill Corporation - New York
www.merrillcorp.com/law

JEFFREY M. SEWELL - 7/30/2013
Page 63
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way
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99:1 101:8,20,25
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1-800-325-3376

170:25 171:24
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165:15,20 166:5,14

Merrill Corporation - New York
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JEFFREY M. SEWELL - 7/30/2013
Page 64
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what
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1-800-325-3376

155:15,20,21 156:16
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14:7 15:8 21:4 27:7,15
28:4,5,13 34:9 35:13
35:24 37:12 38:4,13
39:12 41:18 44:22

Merrill Corporation - New York
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JEFFREY M. SEWELL - 7/30/2013
Page 65
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1-800-325-3376

88:13 96:3,9,25
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193:7 194:17 197:18
197:23,24 198:10,13
198:16,19,20 199:6
199:10,18 200:15,18

Merrill Corporation - New York
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JEFFREY M. SEWELL - 7/30/2013
Page 66
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8:25 119:18

1-800-325-3376

word
8:3 17:23 50:18 51:1,5
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33:25 34:2,5,21,24
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109:14 112:14 113:7
118:15 125:12
142:13,25 143:2,3,10
146:9 157:15 164:4
165:15,15 175:4
177:4,18 182:11
184:13 185:22
189:10 203:24
205:24 208:1,10
216:15 221:13,20,25
222:9
year
7:10 91:10,11 105:24
109:25 130:7 131:11
136:25 137:14
140:21 141:20 183:2
years
7:12 8:14 12:3 15:13
33:10,10 88:1 91:8
111:9 134:9 137:4,11
139:5 142:3 143:16
144:5 145:15,19
179:3
yes
7:5,21 9:19 10:3 11:4
12:14,17 15:14,17,21
20:12 21:6,10,11,12

Merrill Corporation - New York
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JEFFREY M. SEWELL - 7/30/2013
Page 67
21:16,17,18,25 22:5 yet
22:16,20,24 23:4,9
147:5 188:21
23:10,12,15,23 24:1 York
24:4,10,22 25:2,9,13 2:11 80:12 81:2,15
25:24 26:14,19 27:2
82:1,9,11,15 201:18
27:12,14,25 28:7
you
29:11,15 31:7,14
6:18,25 7:3,6,18,20
33:3,4,14,18,23
8:6,14,22,25 9:4,5,10
35:22 37:9 40:7,15
9:15,15 10:13,14
42:2,7,17,20 46:11
11:2,2,11,15,23
46:16 47:2,6,7,14,18
12:18,23 13:4,7,12
47:22,24 48:5,7,8
13:12,16,17,18,19
49:13,16 51:3 52:10
14:3,7,11,15,21,24
52:15,19 53:7,15
15:3,6,8,8,18,22
54:1,3,6 55:1,7 61:19
16:16,22 17:4,17,19
66:17 69:22 70:21,22
18:17,18,23 19:8,13
71:3 72:18 73:14
20:6,10,19,24 21:1
74:25 75:8,13 76:1
21:15,16,17,23 22:1
82:17 83:12,15 84:15
22:6,14,17,17,21,23
85:23 86:11 88:3
23:5,17,17,21,24
89:15,18 90:20,22
24:2,5,5,8,11,12,14
91:17,21,25 92:3,8
24:18,24 25:4,10,10
92:13 93:9 94:5,7,9
25:22,25 26:2,6,11
95:20 96:8,17,23
26:15,18,20,24 27:7
98:10 99:16 102:24
27:15,19,19,24 28:1
104:19 107:3,10,15
28:4,5,8,10,14,16,19
108:14 110:22
28:22 29:1,2,7,12,16
115:19 122:25
29:20,23 30:3,8,12
124:14 125:2,11,15
30:24,25 31:3,6,10
126:18,21 130:2
31:13,15,18,22,25
136:4,4 145:12 146:9
32:4,16,18 33:5,5,19
146:9,23 147:6
33:21,25 34:3,5,18
151:12 156:10
34:21,24 35:10,13,13
159:11 160:10
35:14 36:17 37:5,10
162:21 163:13 165:2
37:11,22 38:3,13,14
169:12 182:11 183:8
38:15 39:6,24,25
183:13,21 186:6
40:5,9,10 41:5,11,20
197:6 198:2,24
41:23,23,25 42:4,8
202:10 205:14,17,21
42:11,21 43:4,4,12
207:16 215:11,13,20
43:13,14,15,16 44:3
219:7,24 221:6
44:6,8,11,12,19,22
223:21 224:16
44:23 45:3,18 46:2,4
yesterday
46:8,19,22 47:12,12
65:7
47:15,25 48:6,11,12
yes/no
48:16,20 49:20,24
37:8 46:18 48:25
50:7,8,13,16,17,22

1-800-325-3376

51:4,9,10,14,18 52:7
52:9,12,20 53:9,13
53:16,16,23 54:7,12
55:6,9,20 56:10,10
56:14 57:4,6,19
58:12,17,21 59:2,6,7
59:10,16,17,19,21
60:20,23 61:2,6,12
62:8,18,20,23 63:1,7
63:9,14,17 64:4,5,22
64:25 65:1,3,4,5,7,9
65:17,18,22,24 66:1
66:2,4,6,7,10,14,16
67:2,15,18,25 68:16
68:23 69:10 70:1,2
70:19,19,20 71:1,4,6
71:23,24 72:7,19
73:4,5,7,10,10,13,15
73:17,21,23 74:11,17
74:18,22 75:1,2,5,5,6
75:6,11,14,15,19
76:7,8,9,10,13,14,15
76:18,19,22,24 77:3
77:3,7,7,10,10,14,17
77:18 78:1,4,5,8,16
78:20,24,25 79:7,9
79:10,20 80:3,3,7,19
80:21 81:12,20,24
82:6,8,13,18,20 83:4
83:6,9,9,13,14,17,21
83:21,24 84:2,5,16
84:17,18,22 85:14,15
85:18 86:4,12,12,13
86:16,20,23,24 87:7
87:14,19 88:13,15,19
88:25 89:2,4,5,17,19
89:19,25,25 90:9,10
90:11,16,17,23 91:6
91:14,15,18,18,22
92:1,4,4,9,9,11,17,21
93:1,10,12,12,17,18
93:22 94:10,12,17
95:2,7,25 96:6,9,12
96:13,15,18,19,24
97:3,4,5,5,8,19,20
98:12,21 99:2,10,17

99:23 100:3,6,11,14
100:17,24 101:12,13
101:15 102:4,5,10,13
102:18,18,21,22
103:2,8 104:4,4,5,5,6
104:25 105:14
106:13,14,19,22,24
106:24 107:14,18
108:2,4,6,17,22
109:1,4,6,17,19,24
110:6,15,15,16,17,20
110:21 111:5,12,18
111:20,20,21 112:18
112:20,20 113:1,3,5
113:14,15,18,18,22
114:8,22 115:4,5,10
116:2,3,4,6,19 117:3
117:7,7,13 118:5,6
118:12,13,20,22,24
119:4,10,22,24,24
120:11,23 121:19,24
122:1,2,3,3,4,5,9,11
122:16,24 123:3,9,16
123:19,21 124:21
125:6,17 126:7,19,20
127:1,1,2,11,11,15
127:20,22 128:3,8,11
128:20 129:11 130:1
130:2 131:24 132:13
133:4,22 134:1,11,17
134:22,23 135:4,4,11
135:12,17,22 136:2
136:14 137:1,1,8,10
137:10,16 138:3,7,9
139:12,16 140:15,17
142:4,6,6,8,24
143:13,14,22,22
144:9,14,17,22,23
145:9,20 146:4,17,20
147:2,7 148:1,2,4,7
148:12,24 149:3,4,4
149:6,6,13,21,24
150:2,14,17,23 151:1
151:2,8,10,13 152:4
152:9,10,12,24 153:1
153:11,19,20,21,23

Merrill Corporation - New York
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JEFFREY M. SEWELL - 7/30/2013
Page 68
203:10,17,19,22
154:5,17,18,19,21,21
204:7,14,17,18,21,25
154:24 155:5,7,9,17
205:9,10,11 206:6,11
155:18,24 156:1,5,5
206:17 207:1,2,6,11
156:6,11,13,17,18,23
208:2 209:17,20,24
156:25,25 157:1,14
210:1,1,2,7,15,20
157:16,19,22 158:9
211:2,12,15,20,25
158:12,16,23,24
212:1,8,11,14,21,23
159:2,6,7,8,13,22,22
213:12,13,22,25
160:2,7,7,24 161:5
214:7,14,20,22,23
161:15,21,23 162:11
215:2,13,18,18,20
162:12,13,14,16,20
216:6,8,10,13,15,22
162:23 163:18
216:24 217:2,5,19,21
164:16 165:13 166:5
218:2,10,16 219:5,23
166:8,14,20 167:5,15
219:25 220:22 221:2
167:17 169:1,5,9,14
221:3,4,7,9,11,14,15
170:10,15,17 171:4,9
221:16,18 222:2,6,11
171:15,17,18,22
222:13,16,16,18,20
172:21 173:1,3,6,8,9
223:1,5,10,12,16,22
173:9,13,14,17
224:21,23 225:2
174:16,20,20 175:1,1
175:2,5,22,25 176:3 your
176:4,10,18,18 177:8 6:25 7:22,23 8:5 19:3
177:10,14 178:1,7,10
25:11,14 29:1,14
179:12,21,21,23
30:6,6,24 31:1,4,23
180:4,5 181:1,5,6,8,9
32:2,13 33:21 35:4
181:15,20 182:2,5,6
38:7 40:11,12 44:24
182:6,19,20,24 183:6
45:1,4 48:2,13,17
183:7,9,11,14,21,25
51:12 52:1,1,4 53:24
183:25 184:5,6,14,20
54:7 57:19 58:13,15
184:22 185:10,13,18
59:12 63:15,25,25
186:11 187:7,8,9,15
66:7 67:5 68:24
187:20,20 188:6,6
69:16 70:5,17 73:16
189:9,18,21 190:4,12
73:19,25 74:19 75:9
190:15,22 191:4,6,19
75:16,19 78:1 83:6
191:20,24 192:10,11
83:13,17 84:18,24
192:11,12,20 193:5,7
85:2,20 86:1 87:10
193:14,20 194:13,14
89:22 91:22 92:5,6
194:25,25,25 195:5,6
92:10 93:12,23 94:12
195:10,15,24 196:4,4
95:7 96:6 97:10,13
196:7,15,16,22,23
97:21 98:19 100:1,24
197:1,4,15,15,22
101:18 102:18 103:4
198:2,6,6,6,7,12,13
103:22,24 104:16,17
198:19,23 199:4,17
104:20,23 105:5
199:19,22,24 200:10
106:2,2,6 107:17,21
200:16,17,19,22
107:24 109:11,11
202:3,6,8,12,12,15
111:10,12,23 112:1,2

1-800-325-3376

112:10,11,12 114:1
114:16 115:12
116:13,20 117:5,12
119:21,23 121:15
125:7,8 126:10,13,23
128:7 130:6 133:10
135:24 136:11,12
137:2,6 138:22,24
139:6,13,19 142:7
144:7,7 145:1,25
146:11 151:14 152:4
152:10 153:23 154:6
154:7 156:7,23 158:9
158:12,25 160:4,9,13
162:14,24 164:6,23
165:6,25 166:13
168:14,25 171:14
174:18 177:23 178:8
181:4,13,15,16,21,24
182:6,8,19,22 184:5
187:8 189:13 191:17
193:6 197:7,21
199:21,23 200:14,22
200:24 204:13 205:7
205:12,15,16,25
206:9,20 207:8,13
208:18 209:2,10,13
209:16,20 210:20
211:3,12,19 212:17
212:17 213:4 216:17
217:14 218:3,23
222:25 223:1 224:22
yours
54:11 154:17 162:16
yourself
99:17 148:2 222:17
you'd
42:23 167:15
you'll
70:5 155:8
you're
15:11 16:8 29:25 30:7
34:10 46:3 52:7
56:16 57:3 60:19,25
61:5,21 66:25 68:5
98:9 100:25 106:10

111:1 113:22 118:21
121:14 124:17
129:13 132:20 137:8
138:15,17 154:3
173:15 174:4 176:20
177:4,20 178:13
189:22 191:22
192:22 193:1 196:10
200:21 204:11
212:13,18 213:12,21
213:24 214:15,18
215:1,7,15,16,22,23
216:11 223:17
224:11
you've
30:6 33:8 52:8 68:3
98:21 108:12 123:12
123:17 147:15
155:25 160:18
162:12 167:18
173:18 182:12
184:18 185:12
186:20 192:1,1 197:4
y'all
44:4,4 149:22,22
153:14 154:7
Z
zero
137:5,11
$
$18,750
118:19
$3
145:23
$375,000
110:5 118:19 136:25
138:25 139:1 143:14
$400,000
143:9
$800
219:16
$88,000
140:20

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JEFFREY M. SEWELL - 7/30/2013
Page 69
#
#306
2:2 226:24
1
1
5:3,9 39:19,20 105:17
105:18 108:22
1st
46:24 47:15 48:1
121:24 155:19 156:2
156:11 180:18
1.13
92:22
1:45
102:6
1:46
102:9
10
5:22 146:14 205:3,7
207:7 210:25 212:22
213:4 219:12
10th
73:24 74:12 105:23
10/18/12
5:11
10/19/12
5:12
10/23/12
5:14
10:00
6:10 203:7
10:36
40:4
10:38
40:4
10:50
49:8
10019-7475
2:11
102
4:19
105
5:9
108
5:11

1-800-325-3376

11
201:15
11th
80:9,24 82:7,14
200:25
11-09-16
2:3 226:25
11/1/12
5:15
11/10/10
5:10
11:06
49:8
11:29
64:13
11:41
64:13
112
5:12
114
5:14
118
5:15
12
27:1 32:16 65:4 79:8
96:1 172:17 190:14
191:14 202:4 207:23
207:24
12th
32:22 33:6 41:21 42:9
42:22 74:24 77:21
80:2,8 84:24 87:18
88:5 92:18 93:11
96:19 97:3 148:5,13
154:5 173:16 177:7
188:4 189:12,23
191:9 193:10 203:10
204:21 207:11
208:13 209:14
211:16 212:4 221:8
12:18
95:1
12:32
95:1
12:36
99:22

12:40
99:22
12:42
102:9
122
5:17
1298
130:7,16 131:8,11,17
132:16
13
122:20 129:20 130:5
133:10
13th
145:7 146:10 207:21
134
153:8
14
190:14
14th
174:17 175:8 176:2
177:8 178:7 179:11
180:14
146
5:18
15
204:6
152
5:19
155
5:21
18
108:16
18th
109:25 110:3 175:13
19
113:9
1901
3:15
1952
3:6
1982
7:8 145:22
1988
7:14,18 8:4,13
1997
96:13

2
2
5:5,5,11 36:19 42:5
47:11 48:16 50:4,8,9
62:19 83:21 100:7,9
100:11 108:3,9,13
125:22 126:16,20,23
157:10 223:1,22
2nd
10:24 32:18,23,24
33:19,24 34:6 35:2
40:11 42:23 43:17,22
44:12,23,23 45:5
48:11 50:14,23 51:5
52:9 59:19 63:2,10
64:25 65:8,25 66:5
69:8,24 70:25 75:11
79:6 84:5 85:16,19
86:1 94:12 95:7,15
95:17 97:5 126:6
128:20 129:9,12,18
129:21 130:3 133:7,7
135:12 149:7,13
155:24 156:18,23
157:4,23 175:3,9,21
176:2,4,11,14,21
177:8,9,15,17,19,24
179:12 181:7 182:9
182:21 200:16,21,22
201:7,12 202:24,24
205:8 224:1
2/25/13
5:18
2:47
146:19
20
144:5
2002
96:20
2003
96:20
2007
13:21
2008
8:1,5 10:14 11:10,24
12:4,25 13:4,17,21

Merrill Corporation - New York
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JEFFREY M. SEWELL - 7/30/2013
Page 70
13:24 15:7,10 90:24
2009
12:20 13:7,14 14:5,8
15:12 23:3
2010
12:7 42:15 43:18,22
73:24 74:12 105:23
137:6 138:24 149:9
149:13
2011
139:8,11 180:18
2012
15:16,20 20:7 22:21
23:3,17 29:6,10 80:9
80:24 81:24 82:7
91:14,18 107:18
109:12 110:3 113:9
114:25 117:8 118:18
121:24 130:7,9
131:12 201:15,16
2013
1:25 6:9 27:1 32:16
33:25 35:2 41:21
42:9 46:24 47:12,15
48:1,11,16 50:10,14
65:25 71:19 72:5
74:24 77:21 79:8
80:2 87:18 88:5
92:19 93:11 97:4
100:7 122:20 130:5
135:23 136:15 137:2
139:3,15 141:16
142:6 147:13 149:14
150:9 155:11 180:18
182:21 183:12 188:4
188:16 202:4 203:10
207:24 221:8 225:7
202)514-3749
2:21
205
5:22
205)254-1000
3:18
205)325-5688
4:7
205)380-2499

1-800-325-3376

3:8
205)879-5000
3:24
20530
2:20
21
118:17
212)474-1348
2:12
220
4:21
2221
6:7
23
114:25
2499
3:16
25
33:10 88:1 111:9
145:19
25th
105:24 147:13
26th
150:8,24 155:10,17
160:15 161:7,13,23
162:12 172:25
173:15,18
28
7:14
28th
8:4
280
4:4
3
3
5:6,12 71:10,20,24
73:15 75:2 76:8
112:23 113:2 156:25
157:2,7 183:6 200:2
3rd
10:25 203:8
3/13/13
5:17
3:21
146:19

30
1:25 39:23
30th
6:9 55:18 225:7
31st
10:23
34
222:1,1
35
203:23
35203
4:6
35203-2618
3:17
35209
3:23
35242
3:7
3530
3:22
39
5:3
4
4
5:14 114:19,23,24
4/7/13
5:4
4/8/13
5:6
4:39
204:9
4:53
204:9
40
203:23
4026
2:18
5
5
5:15 118:9,13 137:14
141:1,19
5:15
220:21
5:17

220:21
5:20
225:6
50
5:5
6
6
4:18 5:17 122:13,17
126:13 130:5 145:11
146:21
7
7
5:18 146:24 147:11
71
5:6
716
4:5
8
8
5:19 71:19 152:21
153:1,19 160:19,22
163:5,12,18
8th
71:5 72:5 74:18 76:8
87:3,5 183:11 184:10
184:18 187:8,14
188:16 189:17 190:1
190:2,6,13,14,23
194:15 197:16 198:1
198:14,15 199:7,17
200:1
8:45
72:8
825
2:10
9
9
5:21 155:2,7 159:4
162:10 164:8 165:22
170:18,23 221:3
222:25 223:9
9th

Merrill Corporation - New York
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JEFFREY M. SEWELL - 7/30/2013
Page 71
189:2
9-30-13
2:2 226:24
9:30
147:12 189:17 190:15
190:24 199:1
950
2:19

1-800-325-3376

Merrill Corporation - New York
www.merrillcorp.com/law