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EXHIBIT 2

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COUNCIL ON AMERICAN-ISLAMIC RELATIONS ACTION NETWORK, INC., ET AL. v. GAUBATZ, ET AL. NIHAD AWAD HAMMAD

January 9, 2013

Prepared for you by

Bingham Farms/Southfield Grand Rapids Ann Arbor Detroit Flint Jackson Lansing Mt. Clemens Saginaw

Case 1:09-cv-02030-CKK Document 154-3 Filed 05/19/13 Page 3 of 33 NIHAD AWAD HAMMAD January 9, 2013 Page 1 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Pages: 1 - 162 Lee Bursten, RMR, CRR Deposition of NIHAD AWAD HAMMAD Washington, DC Wednesday, January 9, 2013 10:04 a.m. v. PAUL DAVID GAUBATZ, et al., Defendants. UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -x COUNCIL ON AMERICAN-ISLAMIC RELATIONS ACTION NETWORK, INC., et al., Plaintiffs, : : : : : : : Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly Civil Action No. 09-cv-2030 (CKK-JMF)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -x

Reported By:

Case 1:09-cv-02030-CKK Document 154-3 Filed 05/19/13 Page 4 of 33 NIHAD AWAD HAMMAD January 9, 2013 Page 2 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Pursuant to notice, before Lee Bursten, Registered Merit Reporter, Certified Realtime Reporter, and Notary Public in and for the District of Columbia, who officiated in administering the oath to the witness. CENTER FOR SECURITY POLICY 1901 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW Suite 201 Washington, DC 20006 (202) 379-4960 Deposition of NIHAD AWAD HAMMAD, held at the offices of:

Case 1:09-cv-02030-CKK Document 154-3 Filed 05/19/13 Page 5 of 33 NIHAD AWAD HAMMAD January 9, 2013 Page 3 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ON BEHALF OF THE CSP DEFENDANTS: DAVID YERUSHALMI, ESQUIRE CENTER FOR SECURITY POLICY 1901 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW Suite 201 Washington, DC 20006 (202) 379-4960 ON BEHALF OF DAVID YERUSHALMI, SOCIETY OF AMERICANS FOR NATIONAL EXISTENCE, AND THE CSP DEFENDANTS: ROBERT J. MUISE, ESQUIRE AMERICAN FREEDOM LAW CENTER P.O. Box 131098 Ann Arbor, Michigan 48113 (734) 635-3756 (Present via telephone) A P P E A R A N C E S ON BEHALF OF PLAINTIFFS AND THE WITNESS: GADEIR ABBAS, ESQUIRE NADHIRA AL-KHALILI, ESQUIRE COUNCIL ON AMERICAN-ISLAMIC RELATIONS 453 New Jersey Avenue, SE Washington, DC 20003 (202) 742-6033

Case 1:09-cv-02030-CKK Document 154-3 Filed 05/19/13 Page 6 of 33 NIHAD AWAD HAMMAD January 9, 2013 Page 4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ALSO PRESENT: CHRIS ALLEN GAUBATZ MARTIN GARBUS, ESQUIRE LAW OFFICE OF MARTIN GARBUS 3 Park Avenue 16th Floor New York, New York 10016 (212) 561-3625 A P P E A R A N C E S C O N T I N U E D

ON BEHALF OF THE GAUBATZ DEFENDANTS: DANIEL HOROWITZ, ESQUIRE LAW OFFICE OF DANIEL HOROWITZ P.O. Box 1547 Lafayette, California 94549 (925) 283-1863

Case 1:09-cv-02030-CKK Document 154-3 Filed 05/19/13 Page 7 of 33 NIHAD AWAD HAMMAD January 9, 2013 Page 5 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Exhibit 11 E X H I B I T S (Retained by counsel.) CSP DEPOSITION EXHIBITS Exhibit 10 Excerpt from Boim versus Quranic Literacy Institute deposition transcript Screenshot of CAIR website 128 PAGE 126 C O N T E N T S EXAMINATION OF NIHAD AWAD HAMMAD By Mr. Yerushalmi By Mr. Horowitz PAGE 39 116

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Is there any reason I should not be taking For example, are you under

your deposition today?

medication, under the influence of any drug or alcohol or suffering from any mental disease or defect? A Q No. And that's just a formal question, it What is

appears to me you're lucid and coherent. your formal legal name? A Q Nihad Awad Hammad.

And as I was beginning to ask you, I note

that on many legal documents and also publicly, you represent yourself as Nihad Awad, correct? A Q Yes. Why do you use that shorter name as opposed

to your legal name, for example on legal documents? A It's a cultural thing.

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Mr. Awad, I have placed before you what has You'll

been marked as CSP Depo Exhibit Number 6.

notice that at the top of every page, if you open that three-ring binder, you will see a Bates number, as we call them. You can ignore the prefixes and go Do you see those? So

to the last Arabic numerals.

at the very top of the page, I'm now pointing to your first page. A Q You see this Bates 1265? Yes. And so when I refer to a page number or if

I might say Bates number, that's the number I'm referring to, not to any other page number that might appear on the document. A Q number. A Q Okay. And every page of Exhibit 6 has a Bates They run consecutively. Okay. I'm going to ask you to turn to Bates 1393 Okay? Is that agreeable?

of Exhibit 6. A Q This one? Yes. This is a certificate from the

government of the District of Columbia identifying the Council on American-Islamic Relations Action

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Yes. And do you see that it states that the date

of incorporation was the 15th day of September, 1994? A Q Yes. Now, in fact, when -- let's do something You're currently the executive

else for a minute.

director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations? A Q A Q Yes. Otherwise known as CAIR, correct? Yes. Now, when you -- strike that. You were one

of the founding members of CAIR, correct? A Q Yes. In fact, you were one of the founding

incorporators of CAIR, correct? A Q A Q Yes. And you founded CAIR in 1994? Correct. And in 1994, it wasn't referred to as the

Council on American-Islamic Relations Action Network Inc.; it was just referred to as the Council on American-Islamic Relations, Inc., correct? A I can't remember.

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CAIR that was founded in 1994 from its inception to today? A Q Yes. You also serve on the board of directors at

to this entity that was created in 1994 for which you've served as the executive director from its inception until today. A Q Yes. If I use a different name, for example, the Okay?

Council on American-Islamic Relations Action Network Inc., I'm referring to that specific entity, okay? A Q Okay. And if I refer to CAIR Foundation Inc., I'm Okay?

referring to a separate entity. A Q Okay.

What do you understand to be the difference

between the Council on American-Islamic Relations Inc. -- CAIR -- and the Council on American-Islamic Relations Action Network Inc.? A Q I don't know. I'm sorry?

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Council on American-Islamic Relations Action Network Inc. and CAIR Foundation Inc.? A Q Almost. Before we go to the "almost," let me ask

you, what do you understand the Council on American-Islamic Relations Action Network Inc. to be? A Well, over the years, the organization was Then the board met So

just at the beginning, one name.

and changed names and did different registration. I don't recall the similarities or differences between the organizations.

All I know now is we have

I believe CAIR Foundation and CAIR Action Network. Q So let's shorten the names, as you just If we say CAIR

have, I think that's a good use.

Action Network, we're going to be referring to the Council on American-Islamic Relations Action Network Inc., agreeable? A Q Okay. And that is the organization you just

described as CAIR Action Network, correct?

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referring to CAIR Foundation Inc.? A Q A Q Okay. Is that agreeable? That's fine. Now, you indicated that when you

incorporated CAIR Inc., and again, that's our shorthand for the Council on American-Islamic Relations Inc., correct? A Q Okay. And that was the organization that you

began in 1994, correct? A Q correct? A Q Yes. At some point in time, that organization's Yes. And you recall that being its name,

board changed its name; is that what you understand to have taken place? A Q Vaguely. My memory is vague.

So you're not sure whether they changed the

name of CAIR Inc. or whether they just started a new organization called CAIR Action Network? A Well, the board met several times with

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language that was used at the time. quite some time. Q

And just to be clear, I understand you're Are you?

not an attorney. A Q opinion. No.

And so I'm not asking for any legal I'm simply asking for your understanding And that's all I will ask for

and your knowledge. the entire day. A Q moment. Okay.

Okay?

I'll take CSP Exhibit 6 back for just a I'm going to hand you what's been marked as If you would open that

CSP Deposition Exhibit 5.

three-ring binder to the first page, which is Bates 1217. A Q Do you see the Bates stamp at the very top? Yes. Now, in addition, there is a second group Let me just for the record, and I

of documents.

already indicated when we were talking about all the exhibits, these documents were provided to us by your counsel, Mr. Abbas, yesterday, as an additional production in this case. And I'm looking at a Form Do you see that?

1120 dated 2010 on Bates 1217. A Yes.

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this particular IRS document, Council on American-Islamic Relations Inc.? A Q Yes. And you see at the bottom of this page that

the date of the preparation is 9/16, 2012? A Q Yes. If I ask you to turn your attention to the

box on the form labeled B as in boy, it's right underneath the 2010 top right. A Q Which one? The box labeled B. And it has a number for Do you see that?

the employer identification number 04-3617757. A Q A Q This one. Okay.

Do you see that? Yes. Are you familiar with CAIR Inc.'s employer

identification number? A Q No. Are you familiar with CAIR Action Network's

employer identification number? A Q No. So that number doesn't mean anything to

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bottom of the page, do you see where it has a signature line and it has a printed box, "Sign here"? A Q Yes. And then if you follow that signature line

across, you see that there's a place for signature, a date, and it identifies the signor as a director. you see that? A Q A Q Yes. Are you still a director of CAIR Inc.? Yes. And would you be the one that would sign Do

this IRS filing? A Q After the CPA prepares it. Have you seen this document before? And in

fact, it consists of several pages, and you can flip through it if it would help, through Bates 1239. That would be the end of that Form 1120. Okay. So...

Are you familiar with that document? I can't remember. Do you recall signing this document? I have to see if I did. But you don't recall sitting here today

whether you signed it or not?

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the IRS, but I need to see the actual one to see if I did or not. Q I understand. I'm simply asking, do you

recall today having signed the document? A Q I have to see if I did or not. Right. Meaning that you don't recall

sitting here, without the document in front of you, signed -A Q A Q A Q Yes. -- whether you signed it or not? Yes. I can't tell you.

Again -Unless I see the actual document. Okay. Again, I'll ask both of us to slow

Let me finish my question and then when you

respond, okay? A Q Sure. At the bottom of Bates 1217, the first page

of this document, at the bottom of the page, it says, "Paid preparer use only," and there's a name, G. F. Joey Musmar CPA of Miller Musmar PC. that? A Q Yes. Do you know who that individual and that Do you see

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what this filing is for? A 2010." Q And it's for the Council on It says "US Corporation Income Tax Return,

American-Islamic Relations Inc., correct? A Q Yes. And that is the organization that you

founded and for which you serve as the executive director? A Q Yes. Are you paid for your services as an

executive director of CAIR Inc.? A Q Yes. And have you been paid for your services

throughout CAIR Inc.'s existence? A Q Yes. Now, we talked a little bit earlier about

CAIR Action Network and CAIR Foundation, correct? A Q Yes. And you had some idea about the distinction

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you understand to be the difference between those two entities? A Q No, I cannot tell you exactly. Do you serve in any official capacity for

CAIR Action Network? A Q I think I'm a board member. A board member. Are you executive director

or an officer of that company? A Q I'm executive director of CAIR Foundation. So you serve as the executive director of

CAIR Inc. and of CAIR Foundation? A Q CAIR Foundation. Did you not testify earlier that you serve

as the executive director of CAIR Inc.? A Q A Q A No, I said CAIR Foundation. Okay. So again, looking --

I told you that -- are you done? Please. The names have changed over the years. And

I'm not privy to the exact distinction between the various organizations. I serve in my capacity as And I have a

executive director of CAIR Foundation.

good understanding of what this organization is. Q I didn't hear the last part.

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what that represents, and my capacity in that organization. Q I direct your attention again to the first And we were talking

page of CSP Depo Exhibit 5.

about the Council on American-Islamic Relations Inc. Form 1120 2010 filing. A Q A Q This one? Yes. Yes. And I asked you if you were the executive And your answer was Do you see that?

director of this organization. yes.

Is your answer now that you are not the

executive director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations Inc.? A Q A Q A Q Okay. I think you're confusing me.

And I don't mean to. Okay. So let's start over. Okay. What is your relationship to the Council on

American-Islamic Relations Inc., the organization that filed this Form 1120 in the year 2010, which is CSP Depo Exhibit 5, Bates number 1217? MR. ABBAS: Objection, mischaracterizes the

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doesn't have my signature. document where I can verify? Q question.

Do you have the original

Well, that would be an interesting This is the document that your attorneys

provided to us yesterday. A Q Okay. As the most recent filings of the Council And I'm simply

on American-Islamic Relations Inc.

asking you what your relationship is to this organization, the Council on American-Islamic Relations Inc. know. A Q A Now, if you don't know, you don't

It's not a trick question. It does not have my name here. Right. So if I have my name, I will have better

memory to answer your question more correctly. Q Okay. Now, you do recognize that CPA firm

we just looked at at the bottom, Miller Musmar PC. A Q Yes. And they are the accounting firm for which

organization?

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understanding, for the entities that -- under the auspices of the organization. Q And to the best of your understanding, what

are those organizations that are under the auspices of CAIR? A I do not have exact description of those But I know that this CPA that you

organizations.

mentioned does accounting for the organizations that we are involved in. Q Now, I don't want exact descriptions. I

just want the name of those organizations that fall under the auspices of CAIR. A You mentioned several names for me. So I speak to the Court now. And So if

it's confusing.

I do not know exactly, I should not tell you something I'm not 100 percent sure. Q A Q That's absolutely correct. Yes. And so the answers to various questions can

be a substantive answer if you know, if it requires a specific answer. question. know. A It can be a yes if it's a yes-no And it can be I don't

It can be a no.

Correct? Yes.

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organizations "under the auspices of CAIR"? A Q I know that I work for CAIR Foundation. Is there a name of any other organization

under the auspices of CAIR? A I think our attorneys have a better grasp And since I'm speaking to the

of those entities.

Court, I will not be accurate if I give you a different answer than what I gave you. Q of CAIR? A We have been using the CAIR name in Is CAIR Foundation Inc. under the auspices

different capacities now from the beginning of this deposition, so do you mean "CAIR" equals CAIR Foundation, in your question to me? Q No. Let's define -- and to be clear, it So

was your term, "under the auspices of CAIR." let's just put that aside for now. A Q Maybe that wasn't accurate.

And sometimes my questions aren't accurate

as well, and the record will make that clear at the end of the day. So let's step back for a moment.

And you see the address on this Form 1120, 453 New Jersey Avenue, Southeast, Washington, DC, 20003? A 453 New Jersey Avenue, Southeast, yes.

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CAIR, C-A-I-R? A Q Yes. Are those the offices of the organization

you sometimes refer to as CAIR National? A Q Yes. When you use the word "CAIR" alone and

"CAIR National," are you referring to the same organization? A Yes. The organization I work with, which And sometimes people refer to it

is CAIR Foundation.

CAIR, and sometimes they refer to it CAIR National. Q So you refer to CAIR or CAIR National -When you refer to CAIR or CAIR

strike that.

National, you're referring to CAIR Foundation Inc.? A Q The organization I work for. Are there any other organizations related

to CAIR Foundation Inc. that exist at that address, 453 New Jersey Avenue, Southeast, Washington, DC, 20003? A That's a technical question. And I think

our lawyers would have a better description and ability to answer that. Q Do you know of any organizations associated

or related to CAIR in any way, shape, or form that

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executive director of CAIR Foundation, correct? A Q Yes. And how long have you been the executive

director of CAIR Foundation? A Q A Q A Since it was registered. And when was it registered? I don't recall exactly. Would it be approximately 1994? Well, from the beginning of the deposition,

we said that I was one of the incorporators of the name you mentioned to me. Then CAIR Foundation I do not

probably took this name at a later date. have that date. Q

Is it your understanding that CAIR

Foundation is a successor entity to whatever that organization was in 1994? MR. ABBAS: Objection, vague as to what

"successor entity" means. A I do not understand your question.

BY MR. YERUSHALMI: Q Fair enough. I'm going to take CSP And I'm going to put

Deposition Exhibit 5 back.

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Mr. Awad,

are you at Bates 1394 of CSP Deposition Exhibit 6? This number at the top. A Q Yes. This is a certificate from the government And it reads as Do you see that?

of the District of Columbia. follows:

"This is to certify that all applicable

provisions of the District of Columbia Nonprofit Corporation Act have been complied with and accordingly this certificate of incorporation is hereby issued to Council on American-Islamic Relations Inc. as of September 15th, 1994." Do you see that? Yes. Did you have anything to do with the

founding of the Council on American-Islamic Relations Inc. on September 15th, 1994? A Q Yes. And what was your involvement in 1994

post-September 15th with the Council on American-Islamic Relations Inc.? A I believe I was one of the incorporators,

if I'm not mistaken. Q Other than being an incorporator, did you

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any relationship or association with the Council on American-Islamic Relations Inc.? A I just needed to know if -- what you mean

by any role besides my being an incorporator. Q Fair enough. Did you serve on the board of

directors at any time from September 15, 1994 until today, on the Council on American-Islamic Relations Inc.? A It's been 19 years, so I don't have exact

memory of how these evolved over time. Q present. But my question was from 1994 to the So it includes very recent memory. So I'll

ask it again. A Q again. I -One second, Mr. Awad. So I will ask it

Have you served on the board at any time from

September 15th, 1994, until today, on the Council on American-Islamic Relations Inc.? A I served as a member of the board on

Council on American-Islamic Relations, abbreviated with CAIR, since the beginning, 1994. Q When you say "abbreviated with CAIR," what

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been saying since the beginning of the deposition varies. It's confusing. And I'm not an attorney.

So just my affiliation with the organization is being an executive director of CAIR. Those names have changed over the time. There have been some registration and reregistration. I'm not privy to the details of the variations of the names, if any. Q Thank you. A Q Okay. I would have you turn to the next page, And you will see And that's a perfectly legitimate answer.

Bates 1395, of CSP Depo Exhibit 6.

that this document represents the articles of incorporation that were filed on September 15, 1994 of the Council on American-Islamic Relations Inc. in the District of Columbia. through Bates 1399. Are you familiar with this document, And this document runs

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tooth, it's an even longer period of time. A Q Exhibit 6. A Q Right. Let me ask you to turn to Bates 1398 of Are you there, Mr. Awad? Yes, sir. You see under article IX, a listing of the

directors of the Council on American-Islamic Relations Inc. which is also referred to as CAIR? A Q Yes. Could you read those names that are listed

there, please. A Q A Q From the top? From the top. Rafeeq, R-A-F-E-E-Q, J-A-B-E-R. Let me just repeat for the record so Rafeeq Jaber, R-A-F-E-E-Q,

everybody can hear. J-A-B-E-R. A Q Correct? Yes.

And do you know a Rafeeq Jaber?

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directors of the Council on American-Islamic Relations in 1994? A Q A Q Yes. And would you read the next name, please. Omar Ahmad. And again for the record, that's spelled

O-M-A-R, last name A-H-M-A-D; is that correct? A Q Yes. And do you recall Mr. Ahmad serving on the

board of directors of the Council on American-Islamic Relations Inc. in 1994? A Q A Q A Q correct? A Q A Q Correct. And would that be you? Yes. And do you recall serving on the board of Yes. And do you know a Mr. Omar Ahmad? Yes. And the last name, please. Nehad Hammad. And that's spelled N-E-H-A-D, H-A-M-M-A-D,

directors of the Council on American-Islamic

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focus your attention to article X. of Exhibit 6.

Can you read the names of the initial

incorporators, please. A Q Rafeeq Jaber. And was that the same Rafeeq Jaber that we

saw above as a board member? A Q A Q It looks like it. In fact, it's the same address, correct? It looks like it. And the next name on the list of initial

incorporators, please? A Q Omar Ahmad. And do you know if that's the same Omar

Ahmad that's listed as a board member? A Q I believe so. Do you recall that Mr. Jaber and Mr. Ahmad

were your co-incorporators in 1994? A Q Yes. And of course, the last name under article

X is your name, correct? A Q Yes. So the three of you gentlemen served as the

Case 1:09-cv-02030-CKK Document 154-3 Filed 05/19/13 Page 32 of 33 NIHAD AWAD HAMMAD January 9, 2013 Page 72 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 initial incorporators and also the initial board members, correct? A Q can recall? A Q No, I can't recall. If you turn to the next page, just for the Correct. Were there any other board members that you

record, Bates 1399 of CSP Depo Exhibit Number 6, you see the signatures of all three of you gentlemen, and they're all notarized. A Q Yes. Does that appear to be your signature under Do you see that?

the "Nehad Hammad" signature line or above it? A Q Yes. Now, I'm interested in Mr. Ahmad, Omar

Ahmad, who served with you as a co-incorporator and co-board member for CAIR Inc. or Council on American-Islamic Relations Inc. And if I say "CAIR"

or "CAIR Inc.," we're referring to this organization that we have been looking at now, the Council on American-Islamic Relations Inc., incorporated in 1994. Is that agreeable?

Case 1:09-cv-02030-CKK Document 154-3 Filed 05/19/13 Page 33 of 33 NIHAD AWAD HAMMAD January 9, 2013 Page 74

3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22

Other than serving as a board member and as

the initial incorporator of CAIR Inc., did you have any other role over the years with CAIR Inc.? A As I said, I have been the founding

executive director of CAIR from day one until now. Q A Q Until now? Yes. Now, Mr. Omar Ahmad served as an initial

board member with you in CAIR Inc., the Council on American-Islamic Relations Inc., and as a co-incorporator. with CAIR Inc.? MR. ABBAS: BY MR. YERUSHALMI: Q A Q A Go ahead and answer. For a number of years. Do you recall when his relationship ended? I can't exactly remember the date; but yes, Objection, relevance. How long was Mr. Ahmad involved

it ended years ago.