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Why the Ascendant (Lagna) Sub Lord Should be Changed with the Ruling
Planet Moon and not vice-versa?
Dr. Andrew Dutta
Rectification of birth time has always caught the fancy of very many astrologers. There are various
techniques of birth time rectification (BTR) present in the fields of Vedic and Western astrology that provide
us with accurate birth time. KP astrology also provides us with BTR techniques. One of the earliest
techniques was given to us by the inventor of this method himself. With the span of time, many new
techniques have come into practice. These techniques have their own share of accuracy and all these BTR
methods yield practically the same result.
However, as scientific minded astrologers we need to periodically appraise these methods for the
inbuilt logic that they contain. It is only when we will have the courage to question our practice theories that
we will grow up into a matured science
This article is an attempt to provide the underpinnings of the logic of birth time rectification as per
the classical KP principles. Classical KP principles never used Sub-Sub or any further micro divisions of
star. These were later developments by practitioners after the demise of the inventor K. S. Krishnamurti.
However, there is nothing wrong in using further micro divisions of a star as long as we are following
correct KP rpinciples. The main purpose of this article is, therefore, to illuminate the readers with the real
and simple logic underlying the practice of birth time rectification.
Why the Ascendant (Lagna) Sub Lord
In the April 2008 issue of the KP EZine, evidence was provided by Dutta as to why arbitrary changes in the
sublord cannot be undertaken. (Readers are requested to read that article as a background study in order to
make sense of this article). We have seen that changes in the 1
cusp sublord should only be undertaken for
any horoscopic rectification. This is because; the 1
cusp sublord ties with it all the other 6 cusps (as per the
Placidus House Division) and binds the destiny of the individual. Therefore, any change in the sublord
arising out of birth time rectification should be exercised on the Ascendant cusp alone.
However, the question is why only the Ascendant cusp sublord should be changed? The reason is
not very difficult to understand. The reason I provide here is a very fundamental and basic logic which can
be found in many ancient and classical texts. A little careful thought applied on the logic will make clear the
crux of the idea.
Universally, horoscopes are prepared with the given time – either the birth time or the question time.
Upon receiving the time, the astrologer calculates the Houses of the chart and determines the cuspal
positions. The ‘time’ that is used has 2 fundamental uses in astrology.
1. Determination of the House cuspal positions
2. Determination of the Planetary positions at Birth (or Prashna place)
So, unless we have any ‘time’ with us we cannot determine the House cuspal positions and the
planetary positions at birth. And if we cannot determine the planetary positions at birth, including that of
Moon’s longitude we cannot make any predictions and cannot get the Dasa balance, be it Vimsottari or
Asttotari or any other. We can express this logical flow with the following diagram.
In simple astrological common sense we can see that unless we have a ‘time’ with us we cannot proceed.
The ‘time’ comes first and then the planetary position. It is not the other way round. We are sometimes
suggested that in order to rectify a birth time, we must first fix the natal Moon position with the help of RP
Ascendant. This means that we are suggested to fix a planetary position first --- be it Moon or any other
We must bear in mind that unless we get a corrected birth time, we cannot pitch upon the
planetary positions. The basis of planetary position is the given ‘time’. So, planetary positions are
derivatives of the time and not the other way round. Changing the birth Moon first is therefore, not the first
logical step in birth time rectification procedure. How can we arrive at the natal Moon position when we are
‘Time’ given to
used for erecting
unsure of the ‘time’ that gives rise to various planetary position—is a question that requires serious attention
The logical first step in birth time rectification would be to first arrive at the correct Ascendant,
which would show us the corrected birth time, and with this corrected birth time we need to embark upon
finding the true planetary position—be it Moon or any other planets How we can arrive at the correct
ascendant is open to many theories and ideas. Many astrologers, both KP and non-KP use a variety of
techniques that has proved valuable to them. And classical texts have all opined that rectification of birth
time should only be done on the birth ascendant. It is only when we have arrived at a ‘rectified’ birth time
that we can safely find out the planetary positions using the new (rectified) birth time as the basis.
Other misconceptions that need to be pointed out
I would also like to point out some misconceptions which were propagated by that author in his article in
Astrovision, April 2008 issue. It is necessary that such misconceptions are cleared to the KP fraternity so
that the body of KP knowledge remains in its true color and practitioners are not misguided.
Many people suggest that “Calculate the position of Natal Moon up to sub-sub level. Then with the
help of RP Ascendant and given time of birth correct the longitude of Natal Moon up to sub-sub level”
Firstly, nowhere in the 6 Readers written by Prof. K. S. Krishnamurti or in the Astrology and
Athristha magazine edited by him and articles written by him in it from 1963 to 1972 March has he ever
used ‘sub-sub lords’. KP astrology uses only the sublords for each of the 27 stars according to unequal
proportions of the Vimsottari Dasa system. KSK never used sub-sub lord. It is only some modern
practitioners who, using the same formula of proportions of Vimsottari Dasa, have made micro
divisions of the star and named it as ‘sub-sub lord’, ‘sub-sub-sub lord’, ‘sub-sub-sub-sub lord’. Such
divisions of the star may continue until we reach to the level of nanoseconds in the pursuit of perfection!
BUT THIS IS NOT KRISHNAMURTI PADDHATI! It is something else definitely. So, usage of sub-sub
lord is not what comprises KP for the simple reason that all the principles KP are based only on the sub and
not on any of its further divisions. We must remember that just by using the term ‘SUB’ in various
formats does not make a new technique worthy to be categorized as KP.
Secondly, there is also the view that, “Then with the help of RP Ascendant and given time of birth
correct the longitude of Natal Moon up to sub-sub level”. Already the given time of birth is faulty and now
we are told to use that faulty time to arrive at the correct birth Moon and that too at the sub sub
level!! Readers must understand that the faulty birth time has given a wrong longitude of Moon. This is
because all planetary positions are derived from the birth time. It does not matter ‘with what’ we are
attempting to rectify the birth Moon—the RP Ascendant or anything else. What is more important is that
first changing the birth Moon without knowing what is the correct time of birth is simply putting the cart
before the horse!
Readers must be aware that at very high Latitudes such as at 65N in Angmagssalik in Greenland for
Moon to change 1 degree of arc, the Ascendant changes approximately 17 degrees of arc and the birth time
elapses for almost 2 full hours with a Placidus House Division. Similarly, at Equator in Borneo in Indonesia
for Moon to change 1 degree of arc, the Ascendant changes approximately 27 degrees of arc and the birth
time elapses for almost 2 full hours with a Placidus House Division. So, at lower Latitudes there is a
possibility that the birth Lagna sign may get altered for the same 1 degree change in the arc of Moon.
Mathematically oriented readers may please do the above calculations with Tables of Houses, Sidereal Time
and KP Old Ayanamsa correction to get deeper clarity.
So, using a fast moving parameter (RP Ascendant) to rectify a slow moving parameter (birth Moon)
is a gross mathematical folly. On the other hand, if we use a slow moving parameter (RP Moon) to rectify a
fast moving parameter (Birth Ascendant), then we find that even for the biggest KP sub to be altered at
the birth Lagna level (that is, Venus sub with a arc of 2 deg 13 mins 20 secs) only the RP Moon sub is
more than enough. This is because at 0 degrees Latitude, for the elapse of the Venus sub, the Moon
only needs to travel approximately 7 minutes of arc. The span of the arc decreases as we move up to
higher Latitudes. This means that we need to handle only about 2 subs of RP Moon to get the correct
Ascendant sub lord compared to the one suggested by that author where we need to deal with stars and sub
and add to our already existing confusion.
And as soon as we arrive at the rectified time we can simply recast the horoscope and find out all the
house cuspal divisions and the planetary positions including that of Moon. Hence, that author’s suggestion
to reverse the process suggested in Dutta (2008; January) is devoid of mathematical logic and surpasses KP
What is the Original KP BTR Method?
The birth time rectification technique that was originally taught by late K. S. Krishnamurti can only
be found in Astrology and Athristha magazines. The same technique was taught to me by my Guruji Sri P.
V. K. Punneswara Rao ji. It is one of the most simple and amazingly accurate method and any predictions
based on this is bound to be correct provided one applied the correct KP principles too.
Stating in brief, the original KP BTR depends only on the Basic RP and the 1
cuspal position and
the birth Moon position. It is a process of simple matching that provides amazingly correct results.
Unfortunately, many today do not know these original techniques and those who know it keep it closely
guarded with them. I intend to write about this technique in some later.
This article is not written to disprove any method or to support any one particular method. This
article was meant to provide the real mathematical logic and the astrological common sense that is in vogue
for centuries. Readers with careful insight and scrutiny will find the truths revealed through this article. It is
only when some ill-informed students make illegitimate claims on the truth or falsity of one method over the
other that it becomes an imperative for serious thinkers of astrology to come out the truth for the benefit of
larger sections of the society. The problem is accentuated when such students read a few books albeit
superficially without understanding the real import of the logic that such run of the mill garbage is emitted.
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