Transcript*Time*09:45* Real*Time*June*17,*2008,*11:33*pm

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D and, uh – S D

-- I asked him not to send me to

State. And, uh, he’s gonna recommend that, uh, I do a County lid. Ah – Does he have – is she gonna press charges? Or, you know, You know what, dude? It doesn’t matter. It doesn’t fucking

gonna cooperate and all that? matter. It – I’m telling you, dude. The fucking man-haters of the world, S D Yeah, well –

And it doesn’t matter. Once she makes those allegations, it’s <Cough>

over. So, you can – I don’t know if you can pick apart the charges or not. D D violation. S D S S I don’t think so. <Clear-throat>

Yeah. If you get that, dude, I’d take it and run.

know, some trustee job up at – D

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G G D G

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Yeah. Ah –

-- Wayside or something. <Cough/clear-throat> Any girl could express that I was never into their boobs. ***. <Cough> They are grabbing at straws there. Could be, man. They’re just saying –
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I am. I’ll take it. I’ll take a year. Hopefully I can do it, you

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But, I think I can probably get it to where it’s just a probation

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uh, have put – put this shit together.

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Transcript*Time*09:47* Real*Time*June*17,*2008,*11:35*pm*

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D G D G D

Yeah, how many guys like big But, I’m not into women like that, man. It doesn’t matter what kind. Doesn’t matter what kind.You Maybe I like em for what they are. Yeah, like talking to em. <Unintelligible background noises/voices> <Cough>

boobs? If you got two or three *** boobs.

like them for, uh –

G D

How could they involve the media in the courtroom? You know what, brother? I don’t know. I’ll tell ya, I don’t

know. That’s gonna be an interesting deal for you, because, uh – but, there and they say “We’re looking for any witnesses. Now, we think this G D G window. D night? They’re talking about an old guy, if he witnessed me going in Yeah.

there that night,

He didn’t – he just went and said that he witnessed me

knocking on the window and knocking on the door – or checking in the

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witnessesed me looking in the window and knocking on the door. <Cough/clear-throat> G I think they’re full of shit, though. He picked me out of a photo line-up, because I lived there and I used to talk to him all the time.
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I don’t know. I don’t know. And you say it wasn’t even at Of course, man. He just said ***– he just said he

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is the guy. Anybody that knows anything about this guy, uh, ***.” Yeah.

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this – the only thing I can think of, you’ve seen it when detectives get up

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Transcript*Time*09:49*

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D G D G D points ***.

Yeah. How come they didn’t come and Yeah. They’re making shit up.

Real*Time*June*17,*2008,*11:37*pm*

haul me in before, if that’s the case?

D

He recognizes you. You live there. Uh, if you – if you –

caught – if they caught you looking in the window, who the fuck cares? She’s a friend of yours. You know, you’re wondering if she’s home. If your booties, you know, are in her house, and it’s got your DNA on it, so probably blood everywhere. D G what? You gave her something. If it’s got blood on it, hey, there’s <Cough/clear-throat>

You could make up any number of stories. A jury will buy it. Yeah.

But, again, you need to do the heavy lifting for your attorney. <Clear-throat> D

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road ahead for me. <Unintelligible background noises> D G Yeah. Yeah, you’re probably right, man. You know how the How the fuck am I gonna get that type of money man?
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court’s just a mess.

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<Unintelligible background noises> Oh, man. As soon as I can get out, *** until after Christmas. <Clear-throat> You know, I’m not getting out – they said it’s gonna be a long

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<Clear-throat>

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Yeah, that’s –*** but like we talked about. You can explain all

Transcript*Time*09:52*

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<Unintelligible background <Cough>

Real*Time*June*17,*2008,*11:40*pm*

Ha, I’m just wondering if you even need to – I mean, it

sounds to me like you got things *** out. You got an explanations for you’re gonna have to worry about is, if they got some kind of evidence G D If they what?

If they have evidence that you don’t know about and they’re <Cough>

not telling you, then, you gotta worry.

were talking about another alternative – uh, a different story? ‘Cause –

Fuck that Boston cap is weird, ‘cause I gave her a cap like

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G D

– you know, if they’ve got something like, uh, -- uh, your blood
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Yeah.

If it was laying in her room? Yeah. Did she ever put it on? <Clear-throat> I don’t know, man, she ***. *** It’s got her fucking hair on it. <Unintelligible background noises> That’s a good way. I’m trying to think of what else they could

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that when I first met her. Of course, she would have it. They’re so full of

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<No audible response>

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And that’s what I’m saying that, you know – remember we

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that you don’t know about. Right?

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everything. The only thing – the only – I’ll tell you what. The only thing

Transcript*Time*09:54* Real*Time*June*17,*2008,*11:42*pm*

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inside, or – G D G D G D G D D G D G D D They don’t have my blood anywhere in that crime scene. Right ***. Cool. Or like any ***. *** DNA? Yeah. <Cough> known that – how long did you know her? Like a week. <Sigh>

Man, of course, my DNA is gonna be in there, anyway, dude.

Any – anywhere you go, man. How long have you

– hopefully, your DNA is all over that joint. Two or three times. Two or three times? Yeah. It’ll be all over the place, dude. That’s probably what

they’re holding back. You know, those guys never play everything. They always have an ace card.

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The witness that seen me go in there – Okay. Well, of course. That’s true. Yeah. Did they say when that was? Uh-uh. Okay. You know, if it was that same day, they would have came to
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Oh, okay. So, you were over there quite often? Or Hopefully

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Transcript*Time*09:55* Real*Time*June*17,*2008,*11:43pm*

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my place right away. D Yeah. But, maybe, you know, -- like maybe other people <Clear-throat> G No, he identified me at the time that it happened or whatever <Cough> G G <Cough> the case may be *** went there, too.

Don’t you think the jury would be like, “Wait a second. How

come they didn’t say– you didn’t arrest him earlier that if you witnessed him go in and out that day it happened?” D G D G G Yeah. Exactly. <Sniff>

You know, ‘cause I wasn’t there the day it happened.

Man, they’re playing me for stupid. They can arrest me and charge me with everything, man. <Unintelligible background noises> I can answer all their questions. That’s cool. <Water flow> <Clear-throat> <Unintelligible background noises> <Yawn> <Flush-toilet>
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They’re gonna do whatever they want, anyway like my mom always said.

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<Unintelligible backgound noises>

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Like what they are trying — they are trying to ***.

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Transcript*Time*09:57* Real*Time*June*17,*2008,*11:45*pm*

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G

I can answer any one of their

questions in front of an attorney. I don’t care. They’re gonna have nothing to arraign me on. <Unintelligible background noises/voices> G D G D G And they’re gonna arraign me anyways – a bootie and a hat. Yeah, especially, in the same complex. That ain’t shit. And I can easily say that I’ve been there. Of course. Yeah.

you knew the girl. So, fuck it.

I love how the detectives talk so high about people. I don’t

notice women like that. But, I don’t look at women like that. It doesn’t matter to me. D D G D G D Yeah. <Clear-throat> Yeah.

Is that how they were coming at you?

her like that, man. We just started talking and shit, you know.

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day. And she was like “Come by again tomorrow.” And my fricking girlfriend would get jealous, ‘cause she was pregnant. Grace was a nightmare. <Sniff> <Clear-throat/cough> G Like “Go fuck her.” ***. I said “What? I’m with you. Why
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Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. <Clear-throat> I helped her carry in the groceries and then, the laundry one

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She had a big bust, whatever. I mean, ***. I never even saw

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You know, so, they try to put it on the – the whole tit thing?

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Transcript*Time*09:59* Real*Time*June*17,*2008,*11:47*pm*

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are you jealous?” And the girl would tell me about her kids and everything. How in the fuck can I – would I know all that – where she worked? How the fuck am I gonna know all that, man? I’m not the person who knows it. And their acquaintances sit and talk with you? you’re a suspect. G was friends with them and I’m the one that did it. <Sniff> G D D Yeah. Yeah, just because you’re friendly doesn’t mean

-- They’re trying to link everything on my ass, man. Fuck, even if you did it, those fuckers are grasping at straws.

saw you do shit. It’s all circumstantial. me right away. D D <Cough>

Oh, you – you’d be in the bucket, man. It’s all circumstantial. <LAPSE TIME: no intelligible conversation; Transcript Time 10:01-10:02> <Sniff> <Cough> If they’re gonna arraign me ***-- take me to trial, why would I don’t know. <Cough/clear-throat> Hey, uh, those booties you had outside the door, man, your
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they want to still talk to me?

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‘Cause – ‘cause, if they did see me, they would have arrested

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You got *** explain every fucking thing away. Nobody saw shit. Nobody

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Well, according to all these people that died. They’re saying I

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Transcript*Time*10:02* Real*Time*June*17,*2008,*11:50*pm*

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neighbors would say that happened, right? G D G D G girlfriend. D G D problem? G D D know. G D D D G G Okay. <No audible response> That you always had booties out there? Well, even my ex could say that, ‘cause we always had to Okay. On the outside is what I’m talking about – *** see.

wear booties in the house. Yeah, of course. And I left them all over the place. Even my

That’s a fact – my wife now could even say that too that I That’s good. Have you had fuck – have you ever had a <No audible response> <Sigh>

leave them outside.

Hopefully, they’ve—ha--given you--they told you what they They said they had a lot of other physical evidence. They said that? Mmnh-mmnh. Did they tell you what it was? Yeah, it could be my hair and shit *** physical evidence. Yeah. Yeah, it would be inside the house. If you ever were <Clear-throat/cough>

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in there, then, ***. G They tried to scare me with the hat. There’s no way. Unless

they pulled it – unless they put that hat on me,
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Yeah, I don’t think you need my help on this one, man.

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Transcript*Time*10:04* Real*Time*June*17,*2008,*11:52*pm*

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D G D G D G knows? D G D G D G D G D D G G D G D

Uh-huh -- And they pulled it out of the garbage, there’s no way they Well, who knows where that came from? But, you know I gave her a Boston hat. I – yeah.

would have found that hat. what? Maybe they found it in the house. You said you gave it to her. Is that the hat? So, when you showed – they showed you.

Wait a minute. You gave her the one you were wearing? I dropped it off the next day. I was wearing a hat. She’s like Oh, I see.

“I love that hat.”

She touched it. And I said “I got another one. You want it?”

might have –

There’s no way they found that hat in my place with her blood Right. Oh. Oh, oh, oh. A brand new hat. You gave her a hat. Was it brand new? Yeah. Okay. So, -And the hat they had was brand new. It was a resemblance Is that what it was? <No audible response> Okay. So, you think that hat they showed you was not the
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of mine. They took it from my place, likely , to try to scare me.

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on it. There’s no way in hell. That’s what they’re trying to say.

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So, if they found it in your place, you can explain that? She

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It’s not the hat I wore, man. I may have wore it once. Who

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Transcript*Time*10:05* Real*Time*June*17,*2008,*11:53*pm*

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one that you gave her? G D G D G D D Who knows? They can lie and change things around. Like Yeah. ‘Cause they knew I liked to wear a Boston hat. Man, they’re Uh, yeah. Be nice to know what they have though. Well, I’ll find out at the arraignment, right? <Clear-throat/cough> they could find one in my place.

Yeah, I think. I don’t know if they have to give up everything. Usually, when you get an arraignment, you just walk in there

and – and they read the charges against you. And the judge asks you God, the, uh – the, uh – uh, preliminary – preliminary hearing. Huh. <Unintelligible Background noises/voices> D But, think about, uh, saying – ‘cause if they – if you find out they got other evidence, uh, that’s put you inside, then, you’re gonna need a fucking story. G D D D G D G G

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Evidence, like what, man ? I don’t know. They *** all that. I don’t know. I’ve been inside the house. Yeah, yeah. I – I understand that. My point is, you know – What else could they have, besides the hair? I don’t know. I don’t know. <LAPSE TIME: no intelligible conversation; Transcript Time
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Then, it’s your attorney’s job-- to find out what they have.

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how you plead. And then, after it, then, they set a date for, uh, -- what?

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fricking sheisters.

Transcript*Time*10:18* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*12:06*am*

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10:08-10:18> <Unintelligible background noises/voices> <Cough> <Beep> <Water flow> Oh my God, I’m freaking tired. Yeah. <Cough>

They woke me up and took me out at eleven o’clock. They Mmnh. <Beep> <Clear-throat>

said they were talking to my daughter’s mom.

See, my daughter’s mom’s not a good witness, ‘cause she She did? What the fucks that all about? A DUI accident. <Clear-throat> Oh. That’s not – -- That’s not gonna be good for her. What? Yeah, that’s not gonna be good for her. Not gonna be good for her in what way? Well, it’s a manslaughter charge. Are you gonna take the Yeah, that doesn’t mean shit. She – she was the witness for Yeah.
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word of a manslaughter person? You know? that I was home. She can lie and say I wasn’t.

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was in jail for five years for killing two people.

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Transcript*Time*10:20* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*12:08*am*

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*** no, she’s not credible. <Beep>

Hmnh-hmnh. But, she could be – she’s on the District Attorney’s side. D D G G D D G D That’s what I mean, you know-<Cough> Man, ***, <Cough> -- She’s seeing a psychiatrist. <Beep> -- If she’s got that kind of background.

Yeah. ***. You’ve got nothing to worry about there. So, they said that – they – they said they had other fucking, Hollywood station too was trying to nail me for shit.

trying to, you know, put all the similar type – <Clear-throat> G D whatever. G D G D G D -- Murders and say you did it? They’re all different. But, they’re trying to link them to me. Oh, okay. Well, if it’s DNA or if it’s people seeing you or Another one they tried saying I was doing it – or did it. Uh-huh. And I was on the phone with my girlfriend, at the time it Oh, is that right? Yeah. I told them, “Check the phone records. Do you

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happened.

understand? I was at home, on my home phone.”
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You think it was like what we’re talking about, like they’re

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uh, murders that they’re gonna try to link to you?

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Transcript*Time*10:21* *Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*12:09*am*

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D G

You have no worries there. Two of them. The one from fourteen years ago. Uh, two. <Clear-throat>

They said they had my blood there. ***. G That’s common. I used to – uh, my blood and skin – *** all <Unintelligible background noises> <Clear-throat> D G that – what did they say they had on you? Blood?

So, it was from fourteen years ago, and they two – you said They said they had my blood under the person’s nails. And I <Unintelligible background noises>

said “Well, -- or my skin under their – this person’s nails.” G I said, “That’s common.” I knew the person. They – all

<Unintelligible background noises> they put all the heat on the brother. And then, they started coming after me. I’m telling you, it was his fault that his sister *** – <Clear-throat> -- It was his fault that ***. <Cough> You think he did it, huh? No, I think he pissed someone off. Oh. There was no one near us. So – nothing to do with me.

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Nothing to do with him.
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See that case, man, from many years ago – strange – ‘cause

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they had to do was give me a hug. And I – I’ve seen the person all the

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over the place ***I – I’ve known the family for fricking my whole life.

Transcript*Time*10:22* Real*Time*June*18,*2008*12:10*am*

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D case? G D G D

Whatever happened with that It’s still going on. Oh. Now, they have a wanted thing for me out there. <Sniff> <Unintelligible background noises> They do?

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Yeah. They said they’re gonna be taking me to the Downey

station after this arraignment. And then, they’re gonna be taking me to Hollywood station and try to charge me for all the different cases. D G D G D G Uh, they’re gonna make you the, uh, scapegoat. The what? <Clear-throat> <Cough>

The other ones that they told me, uh –‘cause they—cause-uh Yeah.

questioned me, and then, let me go. Now, all of a sudden, they’re gonna

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charge me? D Yeah. You did good back then. No, I told them the people I knew them. What the hell? Just G

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‘cause I know someone, you’re – you’re trying to – and those detectives were like “You’re a killer.” <Chuckle> G Yeah, right?
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They have two detects – detectives together. They

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– detective was on my tail.

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They’re gonna make you the scapegoat.

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Transcript*Time*10:24*

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D G D

Yeah, you can tell, man.

Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*12:12*am*

Are you guys trying to pull my chain? What the hell am I The, uh – all the – you know, uh, on – on the cases that

gonna do that stuff for? they’re – They’re trying to pin on you, how many of them, uh, do you – G D G D G G D G Strippers? <No audible response> Then, it could have been anybody. <Clear-throat> <Cough> Yeah.

They’re just trying to see a pattern --

-- Wth my DNA there and the people died. Out of eight of them that died ***– my DNA was there, ‘cause

I knew the person. But, they – they link that. You know, his DNA’s here. dude. D

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the next one? The person was beautiful? <Unintelligible bakground noises> G *** other detectives will say – they’re gonna tell me “The <Clear-throat> G Since they’re beautiful girls and – and you did this to them
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reason we know you did it, because you –

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<Sigh> Mmnh. ***. What would my motive be? What’s the motive gonna be on

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His DNA’s there. The people died. That doesn’t mean shit, though,

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No, people that you know. Were some of them strippers?

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how many of them are *** from the people died that are, uh –

Transcript*Time*10:25* Real*Time*June*18*2008,*12:13*am*

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because you can’t have them?” D G D G D D loser. G D G D my ass, you know. Bullshit. What? I was like “Mmnh, that’s interesting.” I’m not even interested I bet you could have them, huh? You could’ve?

in all of them, though. But, that’s what they’re saying. Man, I have a beautiful wife. I’ve had beautiful girl friends Yeah, exactly.

spending time with *** – (Coughing heard).

Trying to pass it off that you’re – like you’re some kind of They’re just trying to frame my ass and hook everything on Yeah. I hear you. Huh.

coming around to question me, they said. They gave me their card. Dude, was there anything – I mean, aside from you knowing <Clear-throat> D uh – was there anything else that – that makes it look like, uh – all these, uh, girls, was, uh –

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my DNA was there-- just – just my hair or something. Yeah.
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An occasional, uh, DNA evidence, was there anything that, <Cough/clear-throat> -- You know, – like – like it was done by the same person? <No audible response> Is that why they’re fucking, uh, trying to railroad ya? No, they’re trying to railroad me. ‘Cause I knew the people –

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They’re gonna charge me. And they’re gonna still – still keep

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Transcript*Time*10:27* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*12:15*am*

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Tsk. None of the cases are the Yeah. Well, that’s helpful, I think. When you think about it, <Cough>

same, I think. So – you know, you got a guy – *** got hair. Uh, ***hair--D G D G G everyone? D G people. D D But, I would think so. -- You know, fucking, uh – uh, a choking here. Uh, how are

they gonna put that together?

*** –

I just know they’re trying to link it to me. <Unintelligible background noises>

Like all the other big time people, like Ed Gein, who’d eat the Yeah, those fucking freaks. <Chuckle> Eat people? Jesus. Well, at least, you got that in your favor.

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They’re all ***. All I know, man, I’m done with my fucking lady. That’s, uh it – it’s over. D Mmnh, Fuck her. <LAPSE TIME: no intelligible conversation; Transcript Time 10:30-11:02> <Unintelligible background noises/voices> <Cough>
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Yeah, I would think so. But, I don’t know much about that.

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Don’t you think a serial person would do the same thing to

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All I know is they’re different cases, man. And they’re trying

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Transcript*Time*11:02* Real*Time*June*18**2008,*12:50*am*

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G D G D

*** get the fuck out of here. Huh? I wanna get the fuck out of here. Hmnh. <Unintelligible background noises/voices> <Cough>

S G G S G S

What the fuck is going on out there? <Cough/clear-throat> *** the shit ***. Fucking shit, dude. <Clear-throat>

What’s the likelihood of me beating the every single case? The likelihood of you getting what? Beating every case?

Well, mmnh, if they got – if they got what you say they got, I

think, you know. You just gotta remove yourself from where you’re at, and put yourself in the jurybox, and listen to what you’re saying. And gotta – no matter what – what the truth is, necessarily. I mean, you want – that’s always the best. But, if you – <Clear-throat> -- Lightening doesn’t strike twice, most of the time. You <Cough/clear-throat> S G S here –
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know, that’s what most people believe. So, you gotta – gotta consider that. What do you mean by that? Well, like, in this case, where you, you know what you got

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that’s gonna – and you gotta be objective. You know what I mean? You

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don’t know. It’s, uh, – you know, a lot of it is all what the jury is gonna

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Transcript*Time*11:04* Real*Time*June*18*2008,*12:52*am*

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<Clear-throat> -- Is – uh – I think your problem is the bootie thing. Mmnh-mmnh. Trying to give a reasonable explanation as to why that is. I

think that the story that somebody found them in a trash can and put buy. G S G S No, I’m – I’m not saying that. No, I’m just coming to you – I’m saying I left them at my doorstep.

No. Yeah, I’m just saying that, you know, It is an example is <Cough>

what I’m talking about.

If you were a juror and you said – and you were feeling bad

responsible for ***. You know what I’m saying? S G S Mmnh. What do you think you would say, as a juror? Well, uh, that, I mean, that’s what I’m saying. That – that’s a <Sigh> -- You know, somebody went – So, if I leave my booties at my doorstep and I’m supposed to Well, see, what you’ve got to consider is what people are

better explanation than,

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be responsible for everywhere they go? gonna think, too. If that’s what happened, if you left those out there, and somebody grabbed them and put them on, <Clear-throat>
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about the booties that are at the doorstep, and they’re supposed to be

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them on – even if that’s what happened -- that’s hard for somebody to

Transcript*Time*11:06* Real*Time*June*18*2008,*12:54*am*

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S

-- The first thing I’m gonna think,

as a juror, is what are the odds this – that this guy that killed a girl – whoever did this – did the killing, walked to your house first, found those booties, and then, put em on and then, walked – G S *** live right across the way – It’s an apartment complex. Yeah, yeah – I’m not saying it’s not possible. I’m just trying –

you know, that’s what I’m saying, you got to remove yourself from where and – and told you that story, would you buy it? You know what I mean? G S S G S S To me, if – if –if the – the construction guy that has proof that Well— <Cleaer-throat> the street level? everyone’s door. <Sniff> things – S he’s leaving his shit there.

See, what I would look at is, first, can people see that from Oh, yeah, it was open road. You could see it. You could see That makes it where you want – if you have – Uhm, if – if everybody knows that you walk around with those <Clear-throat> Because, if that – if – if that – and I don’t know anything about

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the place, if it’s, you know – if it takes a key to get into that apartment complex, or if it’s a gated, you know, community, or anything like that. But, the – G Anyone can get in. And there were no cameras. <Clear-throat>
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you’re sitting and put yourself in the jurybox. If someone came to you

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Transcript*Time*11:07* Real*Time*June*18*2008,*12:55*am*

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S S

Well, I’m just saying that— <Cough> If somebody came wandering in off the street, and walking up

to your place and putting on booties and going to her place and killing her, uh, that is not likely. But, somebody that lives in there, those things on there, and knows where she lives, could set G S G though? S Mmnh-mmnh. <Cough> that knows you and knows that your shoes and shit always have something like that up. You know what I mean?

So, you know, you gotta think about that shit. What is the motive for me to do something that crazy, Hmnh-hmnh. Fuck, I don’t know. But, you know, motive’s a

try to put a square peg in a round hole sometimes with that. Motive’s good if they’re trying to hang you for something. You know, *** – S If you--if you were dating this girl or, you know, had <Cough>

something going on and got in a fight, and she got pissed off, or, you know, stuff like that, that’s – that shows motive. But, that’s – there’s no –

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nothing that’s happened or anything like that. There’s no relationship that exists, you know. G S Mmnh-mmnh. <Cough> People like to hear that there’s a motive. ‘Cause, if you think

about it, peop – human mind--always wants to know how come? After everything’s said and done, all the facts are out, there’s always the “Well,
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funny thing. Sometimes people just do shit just because. You know, you

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Transcript*Time*11:09* Real*Time*June*18*2008,*12:57*am*

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how come? Why did he do that?” And it’s, you know, if they don’t have a lot, it’s sometimes hard for them to think that it happened. G G S Mmnh. <Cough> blood on it, and fucking charge someone? You know, and— <Clear-throat> S So, they could just get a bootie and a hat and say there’s

it’s not just a bootie and a hat with blood on it. It’s – it’s the

bootie they’re saying is yours, ‘cause it’s got your DNA in it, and-- the <Cough> S G S

<No audible response>

That’s gonna be their case. Now, you – the thing is, you’re

explanation, if it’s sitting out front of your doorstep, and people know you had those things, if it’s somebody that lives in that building, that could be, you know, an explanation. But, you know—

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don’t – they got a lot of shit to do. They’re – and I don’t know who you talked to. I don’t know any of those guys or any of that shit. But, most of the time, they’re – I mean, they’ll bluff. But, I mean, I’d be—I’d be concerned about them, <Cough>
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<Clear-throat/cough> I’ll tell you this, though, most times, Homicide guys, they

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gonna have to figure out how to get around that – that bootie. And the

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You know what I mean?

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girl’s blood is on it. That connects you to her.

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Transcript*Time*11:11* Real*Time*June*18*2008,*12:59*am*

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S

So – ‘cause the stakes are high. <Water flow>

Hmnh-Hmnh G S G S G S G S If it was your tail, how would you explain it? What’s that? <Cough/clear throat> Well, I would—I would probably – *** talk quieter please. Sure. ***. If it was your tail, how would you explain it to the jury?

I would probably – humnh-humh--it all depends on, uh, -- on <Flush-toilet>

S

***, if I – uh, to be quite truthful, if I knew I did it, and I knew

they didn’t have shit, then, I’d roll the dice. Okay. And, if I knew I didn’t know they’re not gonna – you know, they’re not gonna come up with shit. Now, that being said, I think that there’s gonna be a – a time where you have to make a educated guess as to what they have. Now, are they

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holding anything back? G S G S They showed me the shit. Well, what I’m saying is, is that all they’ve got? You know What else – like what else have they got on this stuff? Well – <Clear-throat>
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what I mean? And this witness they say –

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do it, then, I wouldn’t be worried about them finding anything, because I

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Transcript*Time*11:13* Real*Time*June*18*2008,*1:01*am*

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S G S G S G S S

-- Let’s take that they’ve got a Not *** the same day. Right. But, I mean, but, you know, doing that kind of activity. Well, that’s common, isn’t it? To knock on the door and check? Sure. But, again, What?

witness who says they saw you.

(Unintelligible sounds/ background noises)

--You have to consider for everything that they’re gonna

throw, you’re gonna have to throw an alibi or some kind of a reason why it happened back. So, if I felt comfortable enough with the explanations I had, I’d roll the dice. If I knew there was something that was out there, that – you know what happened there. I mean, it’s just me and that other fucking dude. Now, I don’t know what he said to anybody, after we got in the know what happened after I left. head and fucking killed him. I don’t know. But, I got a pretty good idea fight. I don’t know if he went home and told somebody. I don’t even know, like – hmnh-hmnh, my case, for example, see, I know that the – I

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that it was probably as a result of my ass-whooping on him. <Clear-throat> But, I do know two things. I know one, all this DNA shit S

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they’re talking about, they probably got that, because there isn’t any other explanation as to why I’m sitting here. So, for me to try to fight that part, I think, is gonna be useless. So, pretty likely, that’s what happened. Now, if I knew I was
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For all I know, somebody else could have cocked him in the

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Transcript*Time*11:14* Real*Time*June*18*2008,*1:02*am*

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never in that fight, and they’re telling me there’s DNA, I’d laugh at them and say “Okay. Let’s go to a fucking trial date, ‘cause I know you’re not gonna produce that shit,” ‘cause you don’t have it, ‘cause I know it.” But, if I know they got it, then, I don’t want to start fighting that me, it changes my whole plan to thinking that, now, I’m gonna cut my battle, ‘cause, I’m, a, in the end, I’m gonna lose it. So, hmnh-hmnh, for losses, saying because of – for me.

Now, you’re in a different boat from me on this thing. If they make you a reasonable offer on this thing, fuck I’ll take it, because, tst, you know, if it’s – <Clear throat> S

odds are – depending on what the jury says – and mind you, juries aren’t about that. <Cough> S

about that bootie. I’d be worried about – because they’re gonna try to – they’re gonna go try to find all kinds of similar things now. If they find another witness somewhere else that saw you somewhere, stand by. It’s

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gonna get fucking ugly. <Unintelligible background noises/voices> How come they’re finding all these witnesses now and not I don’t know. Maybe they’re just now, uh, – and *** have they G S

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before? done any, uh – or maybe they didn’t know who the hell you were. You know, maybe you didn’t pop up on their radar until this whole thing over
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But – but, uh, in your case, you know, uh, I’d be worried

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all like the OJ jury. Most of them are not. You know, you gotta worry

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--Because of a fight, and I know they’re gonna fucking – the

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Transcript*Time*11:16* Real*Time*June*18*2008,*1:04*am*

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here in Santa Monica. So, they may not have known who you are. G S S S Everyone knew me in the building. Well, yeah, I know. But, that’s just that one building. That’s – <Cough/clear-throat> <Unintelligible background noises> Yeah – so –

here, a little bit there. But, if they start laying a whole bunch of little bits out there, pretty soon, you know, it starts adding up. And they’re gonna make you look like a dick. <Clear-throat> <Cough> S

shit and all the stuff detectives ***. They don’t tell you the whole story of what they got. There’s always something they hold back to lower the questions. And the questions they ask you, sometimes they already know the answers to. They’re gonna ask you those just to check to see if you’re lying to them or not, you know. boom at the last minute and you’re fucking – sometimes they ask you

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<LAPSE TIME: no intelligible conversation; Transcript Time 11:18-11:51> <Cough> <Unintelligible background noises/voices> <Sigh> <Yawn> <Blow-nose>
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Usually, though, it’s been my experience with guys, I know

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Transcript*Time*11:51* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*1:39*am*

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D

***. <Cough> <Unintelligible background noises>

G D G D G D

You know, fucking I’m sweating like crazy. It is hot here. *** cold. Really? You’re sick. ***. Ah 11:52-12:05> <Blow-nose> <Snore> <Cough>

<LAPSE TIME: no intelligible conversation; Transcript Time <Unintelligible background noises/voices>

S J D J D J J

What time is it?

It’s, uh, a little after 2:00. Me? Ugh

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Yeah.

<Cough> Okay. ***. What’s up? ***. <Duncan exits cell> <Transcript Time 12:06> <Close-cell door>

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Transcript*Time*12:06* Real*Time*June*18*2008,*1:54*am*

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<Cough> What did he say? What’s that? What did he say? I didn’t hear him. I asked what time it was. He said after <LAPSE TIME: no intelligible conversation; Transcript Time <Clear-throat/cough> <Snore> <Snore> <Cough>

<Unintelligible background noises/voices>

<Unintelligible background noises/voices>

Go ahead and stand to the left. <Open-cell door> <Duncan re-enters cell> <Transcript Time 13:05> <Close-cell door>

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*** have a visit. And, uh, thank God, we, uh – I talked to her out of it and she dropped charges. The only thing I have to worry about is my probation violation – which I can do. It means I don’t have to go to State.
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***.

Yeah, Ah. *** back in here again? Yeah. What are they doing to you now ***? Well, *** you should—uh – you talk to the watch commander

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2:00. I couldn’t hear what he said after that. Ugh.

Transcript*Time*13:06* Real*Time*June*17,*2008;*1:28*pm*

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I can do it all right here or in County Jail. <Sigh> <Cough/clear-throat> S are home? D G though. <Cough> D D D G D G D D G <Cough> <Cough> <Cough> Oh, is that right? You might, man. Yeah. Well, yeah, you know, I didn’t say that. But, -Mmnh, did you tell her you’re gonna kick her ass when you <Chuckle>

Man, I’m fucked, shit. Ugh. If your in my situation how do you explain that shoe cover? How do you explain what? That shoe cover to a jury. I don’t know. Ah. Let’s talk about what – I mean, you – you

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know, we – we’ve been talking about this shit. Uh, if you were on a jury, and you heard – <Unintelligible sounds/background noises> D D -- This stuff that you and I talked about, <Cough/clear-throat> -- You’d have to have an open mind but what would you
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Yeah, yeah, no shit dude.

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Oh, fuck. ***. Fucking *** glad that happened there.

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You might have the creepy crud *** fucking camped out.

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Man, I think I have pneumonia. Uh, it hurts when I breathe,

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Transcript*Time*13:08* Real*Time*June*18*2008,*2:56*am*

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think? G D Possible. <Unintelligible sound/backgroundnoises> You know what I mean? I – just that’s the problem, ‘cause, uh, hem, you know, I wasn’t there. And I – uh, I’m-I’m never gonna be a decent to me. Uh, seem like a nice guy. But, hmnh, if, uh, -<Clear-throat> D

It looks like, uh, you, uh, you know, – if all the girls you’ve

fucking, uh, know end up fucking dying, no matter where you go, what’s that tell ya, you know, where there’s smoke there’s fire. I’m – I’m just – I’m trying to be real here. D G D G D Without a plausible explanation, uh, you’re fucked. So, you If you were in my shoes, what would you do? I’m sorry? <Sigh> If you were in my shoes, what do you do? Well, look. Uhm, I wouldn’t do anything until I saw exactly <Cough>

what they had against me. But, let’s just pretend for a second that what

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the Homicide dicks tell you is true. And, you know what? They do have more – I’m sure. Uh, dude, I’m telling you, detectives would never give up all their fucking cards – ever. Hmnh, and that’s just – again, me trying to be real. I don’t mean to be gloom and doom, but, mmnh, hah, what you’re try to do is this. You’ve got one of several options. Uhm, I don’t – <Cough>
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gotta – you gotta come up with it, or think of another tact.

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judge, dude. to, You know, I’d never judge you. And, uh, you’ve been

Transcript*Time*13:11* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*2:59*am*

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if – if I – if I had killed somebody,

and as many people as they’re claiming you have, I know that in my *** – uh, I know that it would be, uh, a real problem physically and mentally. It would fucking eat me up, man. And just the stress of that, uh, would kill me, eventually. D And I don’t know if you have any physical ailments or not. <Unintelligible sounds/background noises>

peace, at all. And I’d have to make a decision what I wanna do.

Some people in your shoes might find – find God to ask forgiveness, because, ultimately, that’s where you go. Uhm, other people might fight it to the very end. And, yet, they’re still gonna have – – uh, under – understand that, you know, yeah I did these things, but, I’m I mean, there’s all kinds of people, uh, who have murdered plenty of folks in mental institutions. And you’re not in a lock-down cell. crazy type to me. D You’re actually fucking walking around. All right. You don’t seem like the they’re gonna be torn up inside. Uhm, mmnh, you know, the third is, uh, crazy. I have a mental – I have a mental problem.

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convince the –convince a judge to – to – to – to put you in a institution, because you need help. <Cough> D Uhm, so, you got three ways to go. If I’m looking for soothing

my soul because I can’t stand the fucking stress anymore, ‘cause my fucking guts are rotting out, I’d find Jesus. I’d find, you know, uh, you know, you throw yourself on his mercy and you hope for the best.
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<Chuckle> But, you might have a hang up or two that, uh, might

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But, it would fucking kill me. It – it, you know, it would. I’d have no

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Transcript*Time*13:14* Real*Time*June*18,*2008*3:02*am*

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Uhm, we all trust in God, at one point or another. And, uh, I I – I –I know, for a fact, that that would be the single best way not to have my fucking guts torn out. Uhm, you know, you could make an argument probably for every single case against you. Uhm, but, after a while, uh, lying, uh, they’re not gonna take that – you know, they’re not gonna like Now, the detectives, too – as much as we don’t like you know, the jury is gonna see a pattern. And, if they believe you’re that very much and they’re gonna fuck you over.

detectives – they do have a job to do. And there’s a lot of stress, uh, when there are murders like this that happen, I’m sure. It probably fucking kicks their ass. Uhm, they want to put all this shit behind them. your sentence if you help them out in their fucking caseload. again, I don’t want to pass judgement on you, because I don’t know. I – I I– what I’ve said – G D G D *** fucking harder on the sentence. I had nothing to do with it. I’m not saying either. I’m not asking for an explanation. But I’m just saying ***. Okay. then, then, you know what? You should never – you And they’ll probably do a lot. They’ll probably really work with you on Believe me, you know – and, you know – uh, you know,

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should never cop out to something you never did. I’m here to tell you, that’s the stupidest thing in the world to do. Right? Wouldn’t you agree? G D <No audible response> But, look. Mmnh, Ah <Sigh> if you can negotiate with the

detectives – if you did it – and you negotiate with the detectives, through your attorney <Sniff> it might come out okay. Uhm, at one point or another, you’re gonna have to be true to yourself.
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Transcript*Time*13:16* Real*Time*June*18*2008,*3:04*am*

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<Cough> You can pre – you know, if you did it, and yet you deny you did it to yourself, it’s gonna eat you up. If you did it, and you continue that sharade for the rest -- the rest of your life, it’s gonna fucking kill ya. Your family is gonna fucking – all the evidence, all the preponderance of have stonewall on it. And guys go to their grave that way. You know the evidence, is gonna be pointed at you. And you – and you’re gonna what? They live a very unhappy, uh, unpeaceful life.

Okay. Uhm, I will say this. That, if you are who they claim you are, you’re one of the most successful in history, ‘cause you’re a smart motherfucker. And you’ve stayed fucking that – uh, ahead of everybody. You know, for lack of a better term, notorious. Fucking We’re talking movie. You know – you know what I mean? you should be proud of yourself. But, I’m telling you one thing right now, you’re a smart motherfucker. That’s all I know. you various options. And, uh, whatever you do, you’re gonna have to make up your own mind – <Unintelligible background noises> -- You know. I feel for you. I’d hate to be in your shoes. <Cough> D -- The stress could kill you, <Cough> -- Uh, particularly, <Cough>
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<Sigh> But, I – I know one thing,

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Now, you asked my opinion, and I gave it to you. And I gave

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I mean, it’s fucking – if you – if you did it, I don’t want to say

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famous, whatever – you know, what – err, you know, we’re talking books.

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Transcript*Time*13:18* Real*Time*June*18*2008,*3:06*am*

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D

if I – if I was living a lie, if I <Cough>

couldn’t keep it real. D It would kill me. <Unintelligible background noises> D S D G S G D S D S D You all right, man? *** fuck ***. Oh, do you? I think *** got pneumonia. Yeah ***. *** pneumonia, dude. Well – Fucking pneumonia? Yeah. <Cough/clear-throat>

<Unintelligible background noises> <Unintelligible bacground noises> G S S G D G

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<Cough/clear-throat> What the fuck ***? Fuck. <Cough> Ugh. <Sigh> *** I woke up sweating. Yeah? Yeah? You woke up sweaty? <No audible response>
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Get--get you started on antibiotics or something.

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-- you’re gonna have to tell the jailer. Right?

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Transcript*Time*13:20* Real*Time*June*18*2008,*3:08*am*

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D D G D

Yeah, it could be. <Clear-throat> Ya still chilled? Mmnh-mmnh. Yeah, you got something going on in here, dude. You’ve got <Cough/clear-throat>

the two – of the three options I gave you, the ones I would – the two that I would pick would be, uh, Number 1, get rid of the fucking stress. I – I – that’s one thing I’d do. Or I would fucking – the whole insanity thing. <Cough> D D I’m here to tell ya <Cough>

give me – think it’s me – where there’s smoke, there’s fire – I would fucking, uh, claim I had a fucking mental hang-up, uh, that debilitated me. know the kind that Vietnam vets get? Something bad happened to you— D Uhm – Call it – you know, what’s it called? P, uh – post traumatic, uh, -- you

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get locked up in a, uh – the hospital or something. But –
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<Cough> when you were a kid or something, and, uh, it fucked you up. <Sigh> <Clear-throat> -- You know, I *** know— <Cough> -- People get away with shit all the time that way. They may

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--If – if I did it, and I knew that they had all that evidence to

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You wanna know what I would fucking do, man? Of the – of

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an infection or something.

Transcript*Time*13:22* Real*Time*June*18*2008,*3:10*am*

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<Unintelligible background -- You know you may have the other problems. That’s just <Cough> You all right, big guy? Fuck. Maybe you got pneumonia. Holy shit, man. Yeah. <Chuckle> <Clear-throat/cough>

me, though. You’re gonna have to make a decision. <Sigh>

*** some codeine cough syrup. That will do it.

I don’t know, dude. I don’t know. I – I didn’t even look. They

pick me up – they open this up at 2:00 – 2:30. Yeah, I didn’t know I had commander. That’s fucking incredible. D S D S D

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charges. That’s true. All I got to worry about is my PO. I mean, my PO says he’s

gonna violate me. I ain’t worried about some violation.
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<Cough> I think she can sell, uh – uh, *** ice to eskimos man. Hmnh, yeah. Well, I’m glad. ‘Cause now – now, she’s gonna drop the

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***. I know they are ***. My old lady fucking talked to the watch

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What time was it when you got back in here?

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Transcript*Time*13:23* Real*Time*June*18*2008,*3:11*am*

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<Sigh> I could do that standing on my head. Yeah. ***, ha. Oh. 13:25-13:27> <Unintelligible background noises/voices> <Cough> Drink a lot of water man. Yeah. Yeah. I think he’s right. Yeah, it thins it out. 13:28-13:32> <Sigh> <Cough> Yeah, you’re majorly congested. <LAPSE TIME: no intelligible conversation; Transcript Time

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<Water flow> <Cough/clear-throat> <Yawn> <Cough/clear-throat> Cough’s getting worse, man. <Cough/clear-throat> Mine’s acid reflux too. <Cough> Oh, is it?
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Transcript*Time*13:32* Real*Time*June*18*2008,*3:20*am*

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G D

Yeah. Well <Unintelligible background noises/voices> <Cough/clear-throat>

D

Ugh. 13:33-16:15> <Unintelligible background noises/voices> <Cough> <Snore> <Cough>

<Unintelligible background noises/voices> <Unintelligible background noises/voices> J Rise and shine, time to get on up. <Sigh> D J G S S <Clear-throat>

Uh, thank you. Thank you. ***.

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<Unintelligible background noises/voices> Thank you. All right. <LAPSE TIME: no intelligible conversation; Transcript Time 16:16-16:18> <Sigh> <Cough> <Unintelligible background noises/voices>
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<LAPSE TIME: no intelligible conversation; Transcript Time

Transcript*Time*16:18* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*6:06*am*

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<Water flow/Flush toilet> <Cough> <Sigh> <Clear-throat> <Sigh> *** that dude yesterday? Yeah. Okay. *** shit. Ah. <Water flow> <Blow-nose> Ugh, shit. <Unintelligible background noises/voices>

I don’t get why the detectives, they all want to talk to you, if Why they want to talk to who? Why they’d ever talk to anybody if they’re gonna charge I don’t know.

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To get their side maybe. Oh, I don’t know. I wonder what time it is. You have to be questioned, man. I know they feed in the County at 4:00. Really. It can’t be that. I don’t know. It could be, uh –
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them, anyways?

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they’re gonna charge you anyways.

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Transcript*Time*16:20* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*6:08*am*

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S

You know, it’s hard to say, maybe <Sigh> <Unintelligible background noises>

6:00 or 7:00. That’s about right.

S D S D S

This shit’s terrible. They make a sausage and shit ***. Ah. <Sigh> ***. ***. But, you know – *** Just ***. Here.

Ah, thanks. Yeah, I am kind of thirsty. So, thanks. <Unintelligible background noises/voices> <Sigh>

S D S D

***. No.

<Unintelligible background noises/voices> *** probably sleeping too. <LAPSE TIME: no intelligible conversation; Transcript Time Yeah, me too. 16:23-17:00> <Unintelligible background noises/voices> <Yawn> <Cough/clear-throat> <Sigh> <Cough/clear-throat> <Sigh> <Cough/clear-throat> <Unintelligent background noises/voices>
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<Unintelligible background noises/voices>

Transcript*Time*17:00* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*6:48*am*

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 ***. G D it. G D G D G D U G

<Blow-nose> <Cough/clear-throat> <Snore> <Yawn> ***. <Sigh> <Yawn> Ugh—ugh— <Yawn> I wonder what time it is. <Unintelligible background noises> <Unintelligible background noises>

Yeah. *** detectives to call me out. I’m gonna cop out. Fuck You *** what? I’m gonna cop out, just because I’m the guy. But, ***. ***. What happened to you what are you gonna tell em? He said ***. And he *** and it was *** quite a few ***. *** <Cough>

Ah--My old lady dropped the charges.

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nothing I can do . D *** wouldn’t make a difference. So, I don’t think they will,

you know, it’s a lightweight crime. She doesn’t want to press charges. She’s not injured. <Sigh>
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I should call my attorney, huh?

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I don’t know. I think *** about 8:00, 8:30, something like that.

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Transcript*Time*17:01* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*6:49*am*

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D S D S D

You got a probation violation ***. *** that shit? What? *** make a deal *** able to do that? Yeah. Yeah. That’s it. Uh, I’m just – I’m just gonna ask him,

probation officer told me that, uh, he called the detective and ***. So, *** gonna ruin me moneywise. But, I still got a skill when I get out. You know. I don’t know. I hate jail. But—trying to cut your losses. D S G S D D S D S D D S D S Yeah. ***. Yeah, I got a prior though so. <Giggle> <Yawn>

Yeah? *** fucking sink your ass, dude. *** you’re catching a chain. My PO said I could do my time at County Jail, so. Plus, County Jail, they’re taking out early, too. Mmnh, Yeah. That’s true. Fucking ***. It’s overcrowded. So, I don’t know how it is now. It was like – I heard it was 10%. Yeah – <Chuckle> It was crazy shit. It was like, you know, one for ten. <Clear-throat> Uhm, ***. No. But, I’ll tell you what, it’s still, hey, what you got in the
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county lid *** that, you know. ***, which I can handle I guess. ***. It’s

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you know, “Hey, just let the probation violation kick in.” And *** the

Transcript*Time*17:02* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*6:50*am*

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inner or that they don’t fuck you over is when you – if you – if you cop out to a County lid. And then, you’ll get – then, they’re gonna give you a year. D S D S D S Yeah. Make sure that that’s the year. And then they take the – the Yeah. -- And make you stay there for a year.

Yeah, I will. Yeah. That’s – the one thing that I was gonna ***. I just – ‘cause, if you go there for the – if you – uh, and

ask the detectives about.

just let it ride, then, that’s fine. But, you got to make sure that you – in D S Yeah.

don’t do that. They don’t fuck you over like that, unless, you know, *** unless you’re being a dick or whatever ***. the cops on me and she doesn’t work. I’m the only money. S S S D S D D D D But, what gets me, though, is, you know, when, uh, she calls Well, she needed to get your ass outta there. Hehe. I’m the only money coming in. She’s gotta go – Yeah. -- Find some place to live. Yeah. ‘Cause, I’m gonna be locked down for whatever. <Sniff> But, she should have thoughta that yesterday. Yeah. I told ***. It’s all emotion. Females, they’re just, uh,
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-- That they don’t, you know, give you – and they normally

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the fine print –

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percentage off that, that they don’t give you three years –

Transcript*Time*17:04* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*6:52*am*

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you know – <Cough> S D Ah— <Yawn> Yeah, maybe – you know what? I might even be able to <Cough> D S D S D ***. S U U U Yeah, ah. Hopefully. Yeah. Not that I’m – make court today in the afternoon.

I don’t know what the fuck I’m gonna be doing. ***not that I’m getting tired of you alls company but, I would

For English, dial 1. Para Espanol – <Dial tone> <Dial> Dial the phone number now. Please say your name after the beep. <Beep> Michael, Anthony’s client. One moment, please. <Sniff> Thank you for using Inmate Communications. For a rate <Ring>

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quote, dial 7. U Hello 245

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<Unintelligible background noises/voices>

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Transcript*Time*17:06* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*6:54*am*

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U G U S

This is a collect call from Michael They’re not open yet. -- Using Inmate Communications. Yeah. ***. <Cough> <Unintelligible background noises>

Anthony’s client. At the *** --

D G charge. S

Yeah.

He would be able to explain and knock that shit out. But, the

thing is that he gonna show up, he don’t care. He just waiting for the full Most of the time, the arraignment, that’s just a formality.

That’s just – there is no evidence offered up ever for an arraignment. It’s guilty. So, it’s just a formality. That’s why – D D S even you – D S Nobody except me. <Chuckle>

Nobody except me. Well, yeah. I hear, well, you know what though, no, even – Yeah. Mmnh. -- You go to arraignment and you plead not guilty because Yeah. I’d make sure they’re not gonna – fuck you over -– No, you’re right. You’re right. Yeah, yeah. You’re right. ***. Trying – trying to quit – unless you make a deal when, you
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you ain’t made no deal yet. If you plead guilty— D S D S

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just whether you’re pleading guilty or not guilty. And nobody pleads

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*** my attorney was there at an arraignment -

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Transcript*Time*17:07* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*6:55*am*

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know, for the— D S D Yeah -- Mini-trial. My – my public defender will probably make a deal and tell <Cough> S

me not to *** shit. Shit, uh, I was – uh, I was at an arraignment one day. And,

D S

Really?

He told him, he said “I’m telling you right now, this isn’t the

place for that.” And, you know, and the guy said “Okay.” So, he pled not D S D D S Yeah. ***

<Clear-throat> due in court?

today. He’s supposed to be here. And, I think, that, uh –I think the

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detectives are gonna come back, talk to me at some point. D S D S G D Uh-huh. I hope *** don’t fuck it up. Oh, shit, man. *** while you’re in a hurry. I don’t know. Are those guys gonna come back and talk to you? Nah, they said I’m gonna have an arraignment. Oh, when?
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Yeah, I don’t know. I think—uh –I gotta talk to my attorney

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Yeah, fuck. Well, we’ll see what happens. When are you

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That’s why attorneys don’t show up to arraignments.

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guilty. And – and, I’m sure, later he pled guilty or something.

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Transcript*Time*17:09* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*6:57*am*

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G D G

Today. Today? And then, they said they’re gonna keep talking to me and <Chuckle> <Sniff>

hassling me the whole way through, they said. D G D G D That sucks, dude. I swear to God.

supposedly, have their case on me? I don’t know. Is that what they do?

Well, I mean—I don’t know. Let me think about it. ‘Cause,

we found this,” or “We talked to this guy.” And then, they want you to <Cough> D D

Uh, and you’re being falsely accused. Uh, you can always come to them and say “Listen, I had an

alibi.” And then they can check it out. And guess what? They’re not gonna press that charge against you.

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now?

know, they’re out there hoping they got – well, they don’t hope. But, they – they’re – they’re looking for the story, one way or the other. <Unintelligible background noises> D It’s easy, you know, *** . check with your airline. I was not in
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My daughter’s mom – an alibi, when she is against my ass, No, no. I understand. That’s what detectives do, I think. You

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<Clear-throat>

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explain it. Or – or let’s say you aren’t the guy—

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then, they may have a question for you. Then, they may say “Hey look,

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Why would they keep hassling me the whole way, if they,

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Transcript*Time*17:10* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*6:58*am*

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***. G D G D yesterday? G D D Mmnh-mmnh. Ahh. <Unintelligible background noises> know, think about it. If they can’t ***. <Cough> D G have – I don’t know. Hmnh. In this case, I was at home. Like, literally, at home with my Ah – ‘Cause she was pregnant. Oh, really? Is that the – the one that the detectives talked to daughter’s mom. But, she’ll lie and say “No, he wasn’t.”

Well, if you were home, think about it. Figure it out. You

***, you know. I don’t know. If you have receipts, or you They could just plant anything they want. They could grab a <Unintelligible background noises>

hat from my place. You know what I’m saying? D G D ***. Yeah, I think that they-*** lie and say *** problems *** They make up – make up, but, -- I don’t know, as much as we

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– huh, as much as we all really dislike detectives. Uh, I don’t – I don’t S D S D Well, they know we’re gonna say that. So, they usually take Yeah. -- You know, they’ll go ahead and talk to somebody or – Nothing personal with em.
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precautions that –

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Transcript*Time*17:11* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*6:59*am*

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 D G D G D D D me. D D G S

<Sniff> But, I don’t think you have anything, out, against me or any of But, they told me all the Sheriff’s Departments are against Well, I’ll tell you what. They got cases on you maybe. <Clear-throat/cough> know if it’s personal – <Sniff> us, you know.

That could – that could be a problem. Right, but, I don’t

You know. It *** – personal means start planting – planting Another detective that he mentioned – the crooked mother Yeah.

And – and he’s like “Since you’re not helping us out with this Yeah. And, you know, they – <Clear-throat> That’s what they say, man. That’s the secret, you know. You <Cough> -- Make it personal. You don’t want to make it personal for

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don’t want to— D

them, you know. Uhm, you know, you’re just another – another guy that comes through, if you do it right. Uhm – S D I’ll tell you what. Just in here – Yeah.
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case,” he’s like, “Fuck, you’re going down. It’s just a matter of time.”

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fucker – he took my blood.

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shit, you know. I don’t know. Maybe your, uh – your old girlfriend –

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Transcript*Time*17:13* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*7:01*am*

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S

-- If – if I am sitting here, if I’m

sitting where you’re at, and I did it, and I did more shit, I – I wouldn’t want them digging around looking at other shit. D S D S Yeah. Yeah. So, I’d do what I could fucking focus on this – you know –one -- One thing. Because, what’s gonna happen, they start One – one crime.

find--find people, knock on doors. I don’t know. Mmnh, Mmnh G D S G S shit out of me. Hehe It’s just – uh –

They’ve been doing it for years with me, man, hassling the

Every little case, they’ve come to my ass.

fucking things that it’s gonna be – they’re gonna make it look like a big time, mmnh. I don’t know. They – you know – only a few. S D G And they really don’t – they don’t have a lot of cases. There’s Yeah.

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candy bars here, you know. We’re talking about – If I – -- Dead people. They’re not, necessarily, talking about dead people.
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Yeah, ***. <Unintelligible background noises> Stupid things that – W’re not talking about – we’re not talking about, uh, stealing

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Well, sooner or later, they’re gonna build up enough little

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poking around at other shit. Fuck, you don’t know what they’re gonna

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Transcript*Time*17:14* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*7:02*am*

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D people. G D G about? D G D G D G D G

Oh, they’re not? What are they

accusing you of? I thought we were – we were talking about dead No. This case is--- but the other cases. Yeah? It’s all here and there. Who knows what they’re talking

<Cough> Not after ***. But, they said, uh, one? Two?

So, how many – how many murder raps are you looking at? Two murder raps, and then, plus the original charge you’re Yeah. Okay.

here, right. Which is uh – attempt murder and burglary?

But, see, that stuff, I mean, – the first one, they were trying to

talk or rat someone out or – D about?

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together. They can either take the out of state one and bring it here. Or they could do one of them here and take it out of state. D this, uh –
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Oh, is that one of the murder charges they were talking Yes. ‘Cause that’s – that’s out of state. Yeah, but, I’ll tell you something. They can wrap that all

You – you know, you – on that – yeah. And you said that, uh,

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connect me. *** One’s from maximum14 years ago, because I wouldn’t

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Oh, I thought they were talking about there were dead, uh –

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Transcript*Time*17:15* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*7:03*am*

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G D G D G D G

But see the one back home. Yeah. My mom even stated that I was sick that night -Yeah? -- and that I was at home. But, she’s not here to state that, Yeah.

parents knew I was at home that night. <Cough/clear-throat> D G D G nails – D G D D S Blood? like DNA. Right? I’ve known the people for 14 years?

Uhm, then, that case – on that case, too, though, they had Man, how could you not have my DNA in a house that they – Man, that’s true. Yeah, you got it. Yeah. Of course, it had my DNA all over the place – blood, hair and

I had – when you work on cars – you cut yourself? Oh, yeah. Oh, I see what you’re saying. Yeah. Yeah, that’s true. Try to Yeah. You know, I was – You’re gonna have to get that shit together,That’s all I know, This time they’re gonna hit all the common denominators, you Where’s the – where was the blood found?
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get a jury to see that, though, man. D S know. D

You’re gonna have to think of a good one.

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And my dad even went to a place to get me soda. So, my

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‘cause she died recently.

Transcript*Time*17:16* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*7:04*am*

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G D G D G D

No, they didn’t say. Oh. They just lie. Okay. Well, what if they say “Well, fuck, uh, the blood, uh, Mmnh Mmmh, They didn’t say that. They said it was found Oh. Well, if they said it was on her – you know, on her

was found, uh, on her clothing?” Then, what? on the keychain.

clothes or something, that’d be kinda tough – but, on a keychain, easy, especially, if you’re, like you said, working on cars. G It’s bullshit, man. I’m not – I mean, how am I supposed to <Sigh> S D G Mmnh. Mmnh-mnh-mnh.

worry about this stuff? They just keep trying to tack stuff on.

I don’t know what they have, What they say – they just keep <Cough>

making up stories. G D D G G D G S

And want me to speak about shit I don’t even know about. Yeah. Yeah. How am I supposed to know about that when I’m sitting at Yeah, I can see that. So, what’s gonna happen when they I was at home. I mean, like an eyewitness or fucking blood on, uh,
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home? come at you with just –

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Transcript*Time*17:18* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*7:06*am*

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something? G D G D G D G D G S G D G D G D Yeah, *** – Then, you’re gonna have to explain that one, right? If there is eyewitnesses, why would they wait 14 years? You’re right. There are elements of time. I understand. But, They come at me, anyway. So, they might even say that. Yeah. How did you see the person? Yeah, and I understand that.

I’m a hundred feet away at – at, uh – one in the morning. Wow, you must have good eyesight. Why? You must have good eyesight. Yeah. You’re right. That’s what attorneys do. I could see if it was broad daylight. But, nighttime, when Yeah.

people – people are able to pick you out in a photo line-up – G D D G D

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some tampering right there ***. Yeah, that’s true. <Cough/clear-throat> Is that the Chicago one? No, man. Everything’s mixed. I don’t know what they’re Right.
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talking about, you know.

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-- At nighttime? That’s kind of odd. The detectives are doing

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That’s what the attorney does in court. ***.

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But, I wasn’t. So, and then, you break it down and say “What time is it?”

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what if they do come at you? What are you gonna do?

Transcript*Time*17:19* Real*Time*June*18,*2008;*7:07*am*

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G D G D G D J D G S J S D S J J

There’s not – there’s not – *** a Well, you know, you can’t – how –you’re gonna -- how are Now they – they said they’re gonna take me to Downey, after City of Downey? Yeah, and I never even lived out there. <Unintelligible background noises> Can you tell me what time it is? Yeah, I sure can. It-is, uh, 7:30. Thank you. Thanks so much.

case that they lied. you supposed to know what to do if they’re lying to you? this. And I don’t even know for what.

Sir, I have meds I gotta take, at some point.

Nice. <Laugh>

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doctor prescribed? Uhm, sorry, I know nothing about that. *** get you right here. <Close-cell door> Thanks. Ahh.
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Yeah. Sir?

Otherwise, I wouldn’t give them to you. Ahhhh – Yeah? Were you able to contact my congestion medicine? That—the

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Yep. I got them right here. The watch commander reminded

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Transcript*Time*17:20* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*7:08*am*

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G S G phone. G D G on ‘em. D G D S D S D D

That’s your medicine. What Man, I don’t know. They asked me if I wanted to call my wife last night from their Oh? Did you? No. Why not?

about mine? Hmn?

*** Call my wife from their cell phone. ‘Cause I have my eyes Oh, I see what you’re saying. Yeah. They’re gonna hassle her anyways. Yeah. Huh, oh, yeah. *** water. <Yawn> Thanks. Cool. <Unintelligible background noises/voices> <Sigh> You don’t know when the detectives are gonna talk to you? Huh? You don’t know when the detectives are gonna talk to you? They said they’d be back today. I don’t know if they’re gonna Yeah. <Clear-throat>
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D S S D D

come by this morning, or – or what.

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Want a cup, an extra cup of water?

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<Cough/clear-throat>

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Transcript*Time*17:23* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*7:11*am*

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I ’ll find out when that door opens, <Yawn> <Cough/clear-throat> <Sigh> <Unintelligible background nosies>

I guess. Mmnh. Oh, boy.

G D G D G

Those guys, I know they make up shit, because – Mmnh-mmnh. -- The one from a long time ago, -Mmnh-mmnh.

-- Supposedly, the time that they said it happened, I – I was

even on the phone – I was sick and with my fiance. At home sick and she got home. And we talked for a while. The whole thing that my D G D G D Is this in – in Chicago? Yeah.

I think 17. That’s bullshit, man. It – it has nothing to do with Yeah.

the house. It has nothing to do with me.

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friends. The other friend was getting hassled too, holy shit. How’d she end up dying? I have no idea. <Cough> I don’t know the full details. Mmnh.
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The brother had – the brother had – was gonna *** and old

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How old were you, man?

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phone record called-- So, that *** was me being at the house.

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she was taking care of me then she went home. And I called her when

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Transcript*Time*17:25* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*7:14*am*

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G D G D

I don’t know the full details on any Mmnh-mmnh. That is – Well, yeah, yeah. I – I get it, dude. I get it. I’m just – just, you

of these cases, man. They just try to throw shit on me.

on you, there’s – there’s usually – if they can pile it on, there’s a reason

goes in with – with a, uh, porky pig – porky pig mask, uh, in every one of them. It’s probably a good bet, that’s he the one doing all of those, you know. <Chuckle> G D S Mmnh-mmnh.

Only one thing I can say is, you know. That – that’s a good *** this one that, uh – that you’re in jail for, right now, is the –

the Santa Monica one, how did they get you? Did they get you through G S No witness or nothing *** nothing else. See, now, here’s the problem you got. Uhem, uhem. If –

again, you got to put yourself in a juror’s mindset. They’ve got blood on

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you in Chicago. They’ve got blood on – on you in – in Santa Monica. And they say they have blood on you in this bootie thing on, uh – G S D S Not my blood, though. Oh, your DNA. That’s right. Well, Skin DNA Still, I mean, that’s, you know – <Clear-throat>
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somebody – CI or –

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bet, you know. Uh –

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for it. They MO thing you know, like, uh, armed robberies. Some guy

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know – I mean, you wonder how much, uh – if they – if they try to pile it

Transcript*Time*17:26* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*7:15*am*

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 else.

S

-- And, even if you can explain all

three of them, it’s weird. Just looking – I’m thinking to myself, out here, you know, is you’re – by putting myself in this jury box – I’d be thinking, how come all three of these, you know, crime scenes, you got some kind of DNA connection to em? You know what I’m saying? know their life and they’re a stripper and there’s someone after them. S G Right. No, I – I get all that. But, what – G Right? Because think about it, man. You know someone, you don’t

Or – or yet another one that they have – have, uh, ex-

husband or ex- marriage after them or whatever the case may be. You don’t know about it. You’re just the people person going to their house. G S G And they look at just the DNA. They don’t look at nothing No, I – S Yeah.

But, if you – if you had marital problems, and your wife says

guy made it to her house. “Can I touch you right now?” even though ***. S G S S

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seeing if she was – *** Right. -- *** his DNA is here *** how is that possible? If – what I’m saying is, if you’ve got – if you’ve got DNA G

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connection to all three of those things, you’re going to have to really have some good explanation as to why all three of them there, ‘cause, it’s--I mean, think about it, dude, seriously. Statistically-speaking, uh, I – I
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Mmnh-mmnh. Right. But, if you’re – But, they don’t look at that. They’re looking at me like *** and

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to you “You have marital problems.” I’m *** with you guys right now. A

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Transcript*Time*17:28* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*7:16*am*

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

hang out with some pretty far-out folks sometimes. D S Boy scouts? Yeah. Not so much in my – not now. But, back in my wild

reckless youth. And-- I – I’ve never known three people that have gotten contact with. I’ve had one real close friend. And I was there when he got But, you’re gonna have to worry about that shit with the, uh – with the jury. G That’s – that’s right. These are people I didn’t even know that

were dead. They’re coming up on me now saying people are dead. I’m D Yeah. But, you know, that – ***, you know, uh, I think the <Cough> D

-- Now is, were they all killed the same way? You know, that

Monica case, the girl got stabbed. But, did the other girl, you know, -were these two other, uh, girls stabbed? Or were they shot, or, you know --

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I don’t know if it was a girl or a guy in the Santa Monica case. Oh, you don’t know? No. Mmnh. I have no idea man. It doesn’t say—doesn’t say ***. Oh, I see. Well, when you talk to those detectives, I’d be trying to pump
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kind of shit. You know, you talk about – you’ve talk about the Santa

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question here is *** _

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like “What?”

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killed. But, you know, I mean, I ain’t no boy scout. So, I expect that.

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murdered. I know about people. But, not three people that I’ve had

Transcript*Time*17:29* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*7:17*am*

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

them for information on that. Did you try? G S G S G D G S Uh, the one in Santa Monica or wherever it was? Well, on any of them, yeah. My attorney will do that. Well – They’re not gonna give me shit, man. They just – when they Oh, okay.

tell you you did it, or whatever, err, they’re not saying I did anything.

They’re just saying “We have this evidence and you’re gonna Well, if they’re saying you’re gonna get arraigned, they’re <Cough>

be arraigned.” saying you did it. Mmnh. S D S

Well, I can – I can almost bet you, dude, they got more than Yeah.

They got the answers to some of the questions, I mean.

gonna tell the truth about stuff, man. If you don’t, they’re not gonna reveal their shit until they go to court. <Cough> *** that’s how they play the game. Yeah. Wow, aren’t they slick. They tried to take a Boston hat, like

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the one I – I wear all the time, to try – they said they took it out of my place with the persons blood on it. It wasn’t my hat, though. <Cough> G The one I gave –
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what they’re telling you.

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Transcript*Time*17:31* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*7:19*am*

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D G S G S G D G D S

You gave to the girl? Yeah. Well, see, how did they know that you had a Boston hat like ‘Cause all the pictures they take from my house, it shows me Oh. But, it’s not that one. So –

that, though? wearing a Boston hat.

This was the new one. This is the one you gave the girl? Oh – <No audible response>

Well, if that’s all they got, to hang their hat on so to speak. Oh, but, you know what, though? I mean, the reality of it is,

picture of the exact car. But, they’ll take a picture of the same make and model – D S D S S D S Mmnh-mmnh. -- And the same color and say “It’s not this car. But, it looks Mmnh-mmnh. They’ll – they’ll do the same thing with that hat shit. <Clear-throat> You know, if all they’re worried about is a hat – Yeah. -- You know, unless, there’s like what he’s talking about, if

just like this car.”

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there’s blood on the hat, then, they’re not gonna be able to reproduce that. But, if they got –
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it’s just like when – when they’re looking for a car, they may not have the

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<Unintelligible background noises/voices>

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No way. It’s not that one. They didn’t show me that one.

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Transcript*Time*17:33* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*7:21*am*

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D on it, right? G D G blood. D G D G D G J S J S J J J D S G D S S

I think her – you said her blood is They said they found it, in my place, with her blood on it. They found it in your place with blood on it? Something like – I don’t know—may not the –***, but there is Man, that would be hard to explain. And it belongs to you. But you know that isn’t true, right? I think it’s – uh, no, it’s not true. Oh, okay. ***.

But, what they were doing is trying to startle me and scare Baker? <Cough> Yo. <Sigh>

***. You *** are going to court. One more time? Huh? One more time? You’re going to court today. Oh. *** See you, brother. All right, gentlemen. Good luck. Good luck.
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me and say ***.

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Transcript*Time*17:34* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*7:22*am*

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J S J G J G J S D S G S

*** trash, throw it away. ***. Yeah – you gonna eat that? Yeah. You want it? ***.Ok. You have everything? ***. ***. Take care man. Good luck ***. ***. <Close-cell door> Yeah. I’m gonna ***.

<Staley exits cell> <Transcript Time 17:34> G D You have court today?

I’m gonna try to get into court – this afternoon. But I – I’m

get a trustee job. G D G D G D G D

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the whole way? Yeah. They were? Oh, I – I thought, when you have an attorney, they can’t touch you. I don’t know. I don’t know if they were hassling him or not.
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I’m so confused. Yeah. When OJ got arrested, were the detectives still hassling him

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Hmnh.

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Transcript*Time*17:35* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*7:23*am*

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They were probably watching him. I’m gonna put this mattress back up here. *** you know we’re gonna ***, yeah. G D G D G D G D G D G D G D What’d you say? I said “You know we’re gonna have more people in here.” I think they said today I’m going to Monterey Park. Monterey Park. You have court there? For what, I don’t know. Huh, like a new case in Monterey Park?

Los Angeles, man. Man. <Sigh>

Something to do with my daughter’s mom. Probably, put a Oh. ***, that’s all you need. Of course, that’s small potatoes I wanna know why my attorney’s not here.

restraining order on me, so she could get full custody of my daughter. for you, right now.

up here, you know. $90,000?

No, he won’t come *** me. Just yo have them call me. No, not yet. It’s gonna cost the 90 plus15. Ugh. Well, all these other cases, they’re piling up fast, man. The detectives tells me, “You had a nice long career.” <Chuckle> Nice long career? Yeah. I was like “Uh, sorry, sir. I can’t talk to you. Please Uh, they’re used to that, though. Hmnh, Nice long career?

That’s gonna cost you too. ***. I guess it’s your freedom at stake, so.

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G D G D

call my attorney.” They got pissed.

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Transcript*Time*17:37* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*7:25*am*

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G D G D G

Why do they get pissed if they, Well, they don’t– uh, you know what, man? I got to be honest Oh, he was pissed. He’s like “You know, man, okay. You don’t want to talk,”

supposedly, have everything they need for a case? with you. I don’t think they get pissed. Was he?

people we can contact. And if we contact the people that know of you, that are close to you. And if you contact them, you’re –*** the court.” They can’t do that to my wife though. Can they? D G D G D G No.

Yeah, Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Yeah?

Even my– my –uh-even my, uh, wife can’t stand her. That’s

threats all the time. D

somebody like that. You know, in the cops corner.

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G D G

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an ex.

shoot her and her parents. Shooting has nothing to do with these cases.

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Yeah, that’s why you need to – a fricking murder beef with Well, what does that matter? She’s vindictive and – and she’s Yeah. Well your attorney has to show that. <Sigh> Then, she would lie and say that I threatened to shoot – to

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why we’ve been arguing because of my daughter’s mom , probably ***

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Man, she’s against me no matter what. She’s vindictive.

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They’re talking to my daughter’s mom.

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nuh, nuh, nuh, nuh, nuh. He’s like “Dude, this one case, there’s plenty of

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Transcript*Time*17:39* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*7:27*am*

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 suck.

D G D D

Oh, is that right? I don’t even have a gun. That’s a problem ***. <Laughter> What are you gonna do? Well, on the, uh – on the case we

out what you’re gonna do with that? G D G D G D I don’t know ***.

Yeah. Well, you’re all, they’re both good case scenarios. All I know is what they’re saying is not true. That’s a fact. Ok. Right. 17:40-17:44> <Sniff> <Sigh> ***. There’s no attempted murder of nobody. <LAPSE TIME: no intelligible conversation; Transcript Time

<Unintelligible background noises/voices> D I wonder how his case is gonna turn out? Hmn. That would <Sigh> <Cough> <Sniff> I think he’s got a good – I think he’s got a good chance of

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beating that, ‘cause, yeah, DNA and all that – I mean, he’s just got in a fight. And all bets are off when you’re in a fight– both sides are fighting each other. And, later on, he dies? Fuck. He didn’t mean, you know – he didn’t even mean to kill him.
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talked about yesterday, the, uh – the Santa Monica case, did you figure

Transcript*Time*17:45* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*7:33*am*

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 ***. G D G covers. D D G D G D G D D D

<Sniff> I think – uh, I’ll bet – *** if I was a betting man I would say, he’s probably gonna walk on that case. Or he could plead guilty to some lesser – lesser charge, you know – public drunkenness or something. <Sigh> <Unintelligible background noises/voices> <Yawn> Ahh – Ah, boy. This sucks. They search dumps? Yeah. In all different towns? Yeah. But, sometimes, they do. They can’t hold him responsible for that.

Do detectives search the dumps like crazy, right?

– I don’t know. You could – it probably depends. <Sigh> ***. What they’re charging me for, the detective ***. Which one? The one in ***? The one with the fucking shoe cover, man. That *** shoe Yeah, *** on what – regarding ***. No, I – I was just wondering that. Because my place is kitty <Sniff> G When the girl was telling me her husband was after her and

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corner to ***.

took the kids – four – four kids from her, because of a domestic dispute

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You know what? I don’t know, man. I don’t know. You mean

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Transcript*Time*17:48* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*7:36*am*

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 ***. right?

D G D G D what? G D

Yeah. Yeah, it could be him, Who knows? I don’t know. It could. I don’t know the status of what happened to her. Uh, she ended up dying with a – with a – uh, with a knife? Or I have no idea.

Oh. You know, it was her blood. But, they said that her shit

on – on, uh – on the bootie. So whoever did it was wearing the bootie. G was you.” D G D G D G D D G And, because I had old booties, they’re trying to say “Oh, it Yeah. And you said something about skin DNA. Yeah, that’s what I mean. It could be – you could have Or she had them there already. Yeah, *** True.

touched them, or somebody took them off the porch.

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across it and waving —boy, I don’t know. I have a hard time believing – if I am the jury, I’ll have a hard time believing that—the juror--the killer was gonna kill her, kill this lady – went – went searching *** until he found booties. And he found your place, and then, walked over, you know.
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***, she could ‘ve been wearing em when uh—when uh-Yeah, maybe it was just laying around, and she walked

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Well, that just – means you touched the person.

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Transcript*Time*17:50*

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G D G D G D G D G those?” D G D G D G covers. D G D everytime?

Or *** sitting at her front door. Well, yeah. No, *** Listen, I kept them at my front door. Yeah.

Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*7:38*am*

And I came home from work one day, and I was helping her. And I put’em on. Yeah.

And she’s like “Oh, those are cool. How do I get some of How come you keep them at your front door, man? Because you don’t get your carpet dirty. <Clear-throat> Yeah. Oh. Kind of crazy – ***.

You – take your shoes off. And ***, instead of taking your shoes off you just wear the Smart.

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around Koreans. That’s what they do. G So, if a person just moved in or so, and I don’t want to get their carpet dirty, you take your shoes off. And I’m like “Here. I got these.” “Oh, could I have some?” D G Yeah? What am I supposed to say? No?
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What else are you supposed to do? Take your shoes off Yeah, I guess, that’s what they do, you know. I grew up

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Uh-huh.

Transcript*Time*17:51* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*7:39*am*

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D

Yeah, I understand, I understand.

Yep, now you don’t have to convince me, man. Remember I told you I’d help you out and ***? Listen. I’m creative. I think you’re creative. G D G D I’m just telling the facts. That’s what’s-And that’s it. Sure. Sure. But, you need to come up with a fricking idea, That’s why *** cover’s there.

counter it with other than, “It wasn’t me,” <Chuckle> D G D -- That’s not gonna fly.

Why else the blue cover –err– the boot covers be there. No, it musta fell off somebody’s foot. I don’t know. <Sigh>

G trouble. D G D D D G G G

Just a scare tactic, because of boot covers there I’m in Yeah.

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supposed to mean.
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What about the weapon, the eyewitness? Yeah, well, -On that date that it happened. You know what happened? Uh-uh. They have your DNA. They got her DNA. And, uh – <Yawn> No idea, ***skin fell on the boot cover. ***. What’s that

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That’s just kinda ***. Nobody would just drop it there.

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man. The- if they have something, you need to – you need something to

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Transcript*Time*17:52* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*7:40*am*

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D G blood. D G D G D G D

Uh, I understand. But, that’s my You know, that’s kind of odd that there’s only one drop of Uh, yeah. I don’t know. But, how was she killed, man? You It doesn’t make sense. That just one drop of blood ***. They say. Yeah, they say. Right. ***.

point. The facts are that your – your skin DNA –

Yeah, you said, uh, the detectives kept harping on the fact <Laughter>

D G D G

I’m in Southern California, man. I don’t even look at that shit. Uh-uh, my wife even tells me “Babe, how come you don’t Wait a minute, you’re a dude. You got to look at that shit.

care about my breasts?”, God—I don’t get – I’m not into that, man. I’m into a woman for her.”

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lunches, cook. Yeah. you’re not into physical attraction? My wife doesn’t have big boobs. My girl from before no.
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You’re into the personality? A woman that ***. You’re the perfect man for – for a – A woman that’s gonna cook and do all the shit – make

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Pretty much. I don’t ***.

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that she had big – big boobs, huh?

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You’re right, you’re right.

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know, if she was strangled, you know –

Transcript*Time*17:54* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*7:42*am*

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D G D G D Right? G D G D G D

Yeah. My son’s mom- small. C-cup, D-cup. Yeah. This other girl that I dated before-- nothing. What does big I don’t know, man. Well, you know how – you know how

boobs have to do with anything, man? guys are. mmnh hmnh, some of them – everybody’s got preference. What does that have to do with a homicide case?

Yeah, I don’t know, man. Maybe they’re trying to say all No. nah. Huh? There’s *** shit. Okay. <Sigh>

these – any – any girls got – that got killed, all had big boobs.

<Unintelligible background noises> D Well, if they all got big boobs, and they all got stabbed, and

you lived, you know, a couple feet away, or something, maybe that’s what they’re looking at. I don’t know. <Unintelligible background noises> Haha, you know, big man over here had a point though, you

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know. Mmnh mnh-mmnh. I think—uh-- I’ve been around. But, I can’t think of, uh more that one or two people, in my entire life that I had been near when murdered. Uhm – G D G Listen, I’m a business guy. Yeah. I’m in anyone’s house.
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Transcript*Time*17:55* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*7:43*am*

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D G D G then, ***. D G D

Hmn, hey, you knw what, you *** am I supposed to know who’s after you and who’s after – You don’t know, you don’t know. As a matter of fact, uh – I’m supposed to be there working in their house. ***– and You’re right.

don’t have to convince m – I’m just saying.

Yep. Well, hopefully, they’re just lying to you. ‘Cause if you

are living a few -- a few doors down and – and all the victims were, uh – uh, girls with big boobs, and, uhm, they all got stabbed-G D G D big boobs? G D G D D G D G No. Okay. Well, -- yeah. <Sniff> mentioned that to me. There’s no – There’s no victims like what they are saying.

Oh. So, it’s not like – it’s not like a – like just everybody had

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boobs, beautiful body.” Yeah. Everyone used to look at her. Was this the girl he’s talking about here in – in El Monte? Yeah. She had big boobs? I didn’t know that.
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Ah hah, I thought that’s what he was talking about. No, he just said “Oh – I’m sure you remember the girl – big

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It would be different if I was in there – it’s only business.

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Transcript*Time*17:57* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*7:45*am*

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D G D G D G could tell. D G D G D G D-cup. D G

Come on. You – at least, saw – I don’t know, man. Seriously, I don’t. Well, I mean, you don’t have to sit there and like big boobs. I don’t know, man. To me, big boobs would be F-cup like my brother’s wife. You An F-cup, huh? <Chuckle> That’s nice.

It’s ridic- -- that’s – that’s the extreme. That’s that big. If it’s not like that, it’s not big to me.

Yeah. So, *** small – like a B-cup. Right? An A-cup is the That’s not big to me, man. That’s – you can hardly tell it’s a Yeah. You do not need – in other words, not that big a deal? Well, see, the things is, when you’re not into that, you don’t

look into that – like my buddy used to look into Playboy all the time. And I didn’t care about that. I rather read a book, than Playboy. I never

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watch porn. And me, my deal is making money, man. D D G D G Yeah. There’s something to be said about that. <Chuckle> ***-Not worried about women that are gonna cause problems. Yeah. I’ve got enough headaches with my daughter’s mom.
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same as a D-cup to you?

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Okay. She might’ve had small ones?

Transcript*Time*17:58* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*7:46*am*

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D G D G D G

Yeah. So what do you do for fun Work and travel, man. Hmnh? Work and travel. Just wherever we can travel. Near the – Santa Barbara is Travel where?

and excitement?

anywhere. I just gotta fight ***. D D G D G D G D me. D <Sigh> I like fishing. What? I like fishing.

Well, that’s true You’re gonna be locked down for awhile.

I love it. Relaxing, you know. Yeah, it’s a lot of fun. Uhh. Ah – shit. I don’t know what that is. I don’t know. He said it was, what? Uh, 7:30? So, it must

be at least 8:00 now. The detecitve ought to be coming in pretty soon for

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wash cars at Wayside and get some work time – good time work time behind me. Mmnh--Get some double-ups. <LAPSE TIME: no intelligible conversation; Transcript Time 18:00-18:01> <Water flow> <Flush toilet>
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<Sigh> I wanna just get this behind me, man. I want to go out and

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good. What does that matter, man, ‘cause I’m not traveling

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Transcript*Time*18:02* Real*Time*June*18,*2008;*7:50*am*

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<Unintelligible background noises> For English, dial 1. <Beep> Dial the phone number now. Please say your name after the beep. <Beep> Michael, Anthony’s client. <Beep>

One moment please. Thank you for using inmate <Beep> <Ring> Hello.

communication. For a rate quote, dial 7.

They’re not there. They figure-- you know, they’re so funny, Yeah.

‘cause they figure. Not only ***. ***, man.

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would – what if they got you dead to rights, would you ever confess? G What was that?
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It’s a tough case. They could say whatever the fuck they want. <Sniff> Well – And I’m not confessing to something I didn’t do. No, I – I wouldn’t think – I don’t think you should. But what

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This is a collect call from –

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Transcript*Time*18:02* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*7:50*am*

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D G D G D G

If they got you a hundred percent, Man, if that was something I did, of course. <Sniff> Yeah. Yeah. And then, made a deal.

would you confess , ever? Or would you just go all the way?

these fuckers have been fucking with me, man. And there’s nothing personal about it. If – ‘cause they didn’t get what they want from me – to rat someone out that I didn’t know about the case – tell me I’m holding something back. And, then, now – now, they want to come at me with all D G D G D D Sure. this other stuff.

do their shit – You’re right.

Yeah. Well, what *** yeah, I mean, you can – well— <Unintelligible background noises/voices> I’d have to – it would have to be an elaborate – an elaborate

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thing for that to happen. And they’d have to manufacture evidence, manufacture witnesses. They’d have to spread your DNA around –***. G Why is it – why is it that all this stuff they, supposedly, have against me, but they don’t have eyewitensses against me on the day that it was done? D G I don’t know. They have eyewitnesses that saw me look in the window or
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-- and frame my ass.

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How do I know the detectives aren’t sending someone out to

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But, I’ll fight it to the last bound, because I’m telling you,

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Transcript*Time*18:03* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*7:51*am*

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use the handle to see so-and-so. To see if someone *** Well, what does that matter? D G D G D G D G D G D Yeah. I don’t know. It must – you know, must be saying How is that stalking? ***stalking from wherever--*** for her. *** looking in the window. If you did a break-in, you were

check it out, you know, I don’t know. the door and see if they’re home. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Nothing. ***. And, if they’re not home, you leave. So, what’s wrong with that?

You’re just – no, no. You’re just talking about looking in the

windows. It depends. Front window? Or, you know, a side window? G D The front door – window. Nah, it’s not – that’s not so bad. <Unintelligible background noises> Anyone – even my house. My wife – to see if my wife’s Oh, yeah, that’s normal, man. You have nothing to worry They just make shit worse than it is. Yeah. *** such a bad person.
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G D G D G

*** home, I’ll look to side to see if she – about.

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Back window?

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When you fricking go to someone’s house, and you knock on

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Transcript*Time*18:04* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*7:52*am*

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D G D G D G G D G D G D G D G D

Yeah. And shit, man I’m – I am just a working person, man. Trying Yep. <Sniff> Yeah. -- ***. <Sigh> It’s easy if it’s working person and try to have a life –

to make a living.

They came after me. That’s the thing. No other reasons but One of your cases is weak, man. Let’s hope it is. *** Yeah. I don’t know. Yeah.

the other bootie that ***.

But, if they have such a solid case, why wait two years – -- To question me now ***. I don’t know. Like I said, the only thing you have to worry

about is like – uh, new witnesses. That’s the only thing that come up. I

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mean, you know, they start checking people and sometimes ****– G D G D G A witness comes up two years out of the blue? Man, I don’t know. I’m just saying that-uh– if I’m – if I’m You know what? No. Another – and then, another thing –
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thinking about it practically –

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Why wait two years?

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And – and ***. They would’ve came after me already.

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Transcript*Time*18:06* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*7:54*am*

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D G D G D G D G D G D G

Mmnh-mmnh. That other – this case that I’m fighting, they said the girl Which girl? The one in Santa Monica? His or her. Him or her, a girl or a guy. And they identified you? Okay. They told me – The one in Santa Monica? Listen. Yeah. Oh.

identified me, as being there at the crime scene.

person, his or her, can’t remember. They identified him out of a photo D G D G D D G G D G So, – so, it’s opposite what they told you? *** The girl– him or her had identified you. We wanna hear Okay. That’s reasonable. ***. But, It doesn’t support – it’s not supported by the paper work. So, my attorney, when I saw the paper work – Yeah? -- I said “That the person who did not see the face of the Oh. -- Saying, that they knew the person that said “hi” or “good-

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person, but identified them on the side –

bye” to the person ***.
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your side of the story.

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line-up without them being at the scene.

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When I got the paper work from my attorney, it says the

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Transcript*Time*18:07* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*7:55*am*

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 me.

D G D

Oh. Oh. Somebody ***. *** few times in the last few months. Well, that could be a problem. ‘Cause if you walked in here

sideways this, you know, just looking at the wall, I don’t see a front full shot. Uh, I – I still know it’s you, if I – if I’m familiar. bye” to everyone. D G D G D G D G D stranger, it would be different, though. For all I know – person, here and there. Yeah. G When you share the same alley way, you say “hi” and “goodEverybone, you’re right. You’re right. If you were a total

*** the person says, uh – I said “hi” and “good-bye” to the

Say it again about the fears.

the photo line-up – Yeah?

him.” It didn’t say him or – or he –or she– nearby, you don’t know who this person was that got stabbed?

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claiming. I’m assuming it was some girl – if they said it is him or her, , uh, saying “hi” – “hi” and “good-bye.” There’s only a few people that I say “hi” and “good-bye” to. D G Yeah. That I see them in the morning leaves at the same time as

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Okay. So, you don’t – you don’t know, uh, if – if – if you lived Man, there was no intent to murder, like what they’re

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-- She said Yeah. I know – uh, him or her – “I don’t know

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Like when she – she said – when they asked her to put me in

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And that, uh, so, she – she had fears for that?

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Transcript*Time*18:09* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*7:57*am*

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D G G D G D

Yeah, working people. Yeah. I don’t ***. <Sniff> ‘Cause you see ‘em in the alley, doesn’t mean you know Yeah. True.

where – they live in the building. It’s all fucked up, man. Mixed up *** link stuff. They’re trying Yeah. <Close-cell door> D Ah---Come on. <Sigh> G D G D G D D D G D G G G

<Unintelligible background noises/voices>

<Unintelligible background noises/voices> can prove ***. ***. Why ***? ***. *** .

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‘Cause that’s a – ‘cause that’s a perfect ***. ***. How am I supposed to know why *** there? ***. Yeah. You explained to me why *** there -Yeah. -- One – ***one – one kind of a hat that -Yeah. -- I gave the person.
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Doesn’t it make sense, yeah, I knew the person ***. ***. I

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to link charges. Then, the detectives, they’re trying to link them.

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Transcript*Time*18:12* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*8:00*am*

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D G D G D G D G D G D G

Yeah. That I don’t even wear. It’s not my hat. Mmnh. ‘Cause it was given over to another person. Hopefully, it didn’t have any hair in it. I don’t know. Tsk. Man, they’re trying to hang a lot of shit on <No audible response> <Chuckle> What type of person lose their hat ***?

You got Downey. You got Downey detectives after your ass, Ahh, for what? That, I have no idea. That’s bullshit, dude. Monterey Park? That’s my daughter’s mom. They’re just trying to scare me. I <Sigh>

– I never even been to Downey. D G D D G G

‘cause they haven’t been able to catch you.

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man. I’m not dumb. <Sniff> G D I’m not dumb to do something like that. Oh, I’m not saying. Again, I’m just saying you’re a smart
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I’m not smart like that. Bullshit, dude. I can tell you’re smart. ***. I can tell you’re smart. Smart about what dude? I don’t fucking go after shit like that,

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Well, all I know – is, if you did it, you’re a smart motherfucker,

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you, brother.

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Transcript*Time*18:14* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*8:02*am*

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mother fucker, you know, if – you did – if you actually did it, you’re a smart motherfucker to keep all those homicide detectives at bay. Mmnh-mmnh. G Nah, dude, they’re just coming after my fucking ass at fucking random. They think they have answers. They figure charging *** they’ll D into that. G a knife. D G D G D D Yeah. Yeah. Man, the charging – charging is one thing. Hmnh-

<Unintelligible sounds/background noises>

Ah, shoot. They need to prove that I carry knives or I *** with

Anyone I know – whoever has *** to do about, has fricking Yeah, man, I got ***.

I’ve never had a gun. Uhm but I love ‘em. How about a knife? I’ll tell you what. I do not use knives. <Chuckle> I would hurt myself. <Laughter> Well, in fact, any of the records – Mmnh-hmn? Yeah? Any of the record, like the – the ***, haha , it was the Mmnh-mmnh. She was – she was manic depressive. I went to her house
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G D G D G

celebrity’s ex-wife.

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<Unintelligible background noises>

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guns. I love guns.

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hmnh. It’s not a conviction. *** you just get charged. A lot of work goes

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find *** break and lie to – “Oh, yeah, I know something about it.”

Transcript*Time*18:15* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*8:03*am*

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

and the next day she was like “Who are you? What are you doing at my house?” D G D G D G D G D G D G D G D G D G D D G D She said that to – you? Yeah. And I was pissed – So – So – celebrity’s wife? Yeah. No shit? So, it was an ex-wife? Yeah, ex-wife. What celebrity? Oh. Oh. Yeah. Some Mexican singer. She – she lied and put a restraining order on me just –

We dated for six months. I moved in with her.

Famous Mexican singer. So, she lied. And they did a ***. <Laughter> ‘Cause she got mad that I would go and talk to my son’s Oh. She got jealous? You know, I told her I was going out one night. Yeah. And she asked me “Where you going?” So, I took the car – Yeah.
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mom. So, she – G

uh-her car –

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Transcript*Time*18:16* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*8:04*am*

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G

And I came over to see my son’s <Sigh>

mom. And ***. So, then, she came and switched the cars-G D G D G D G D G -- Followed me everywhere I went. Like I was a terrorist. She was stalking you? ***. And she wanted out of it. Yeah. Yeah, even though I was dating her.

And I tried to explain it and explain it. *** it’s not what you Mmnh-mmnh, mnh-mnh.

think, you know we’re together. I love you.

have sex. That, uhm – I put my hands on her neck and forced her to shit. D

Yeah, but that doesn’t mean shit – okay, a restraining order is <Sigh>

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G D D G D G

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don’t want to see her. And that’s it, right? You didn’t have to go to court? ***-No. Did you have a trial or anything? ***. That’s – nothing, huh? <No audible response>
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Whatever happened with that? Did they find you guilty? Well, I just told them to put the restraining order on her. And I

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one thing. To be found guilty of that is another.

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have sex, after it, shoot her and smack her asshole. See, that stuff ***

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And she put a restraining order on saying that I forced her to

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Transcript*Time*18:17* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*8:05*am*

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D G D G D G D G D G D G G D D

And you don’t go see her Not even that. I never even had a sniper rifle. Yeah. Anyone that’s ever complained about me has complained Yeah. I’m telling you, man, knives scare the shit out of me. I But, it this way. I cut myself as a kid one time. One girl – Yeah?

anymore? She’s crazy?

she, uh – I had this knife on me. Yeah? <Yawn>

And she says, uhm –

herself if someone put a knife on her. G

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you know how to use one. Who the fuck cares? I mean that doesn’t mean you’re a fucking, uh, ax murderer. Right? G D I don’t know how to use a knife, dude. Whatever. I don’t know. I hate knives. I – fuck, I told you, cut

my fucking self as a kid. And it hurt so fucking bad. I’m done. I hate knives. Did you see the big-man’s finger?
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Okay.

Okay. So, how does that look bad on me? It doesn’t. It doesn’t. A lot of people know how to use knives. So – so,

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-- She said that, uhm, I was teaching her how to defend

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-- In the record, ‘cause the detectives came down on me –

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know I will fucking cut myself --every fucking time. I know it.

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about guns – never a knife.

Transcript*Time*18:19* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*8:07*am*

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G D G D

No. You – you know it was kind of in a curl? Uh-huh. He told me he can’t – he got that with a fucking knife. Yeah, <Unintelligible background noises>

knives are dangerous as fuck. D Oh, boy. <Sigh> <Unintelligible background noises> G D G D G D ***.

Yeah. I’ll keep my fingers crossed for you, man. Don’t you think I would have a bigger record of women You would think so.

Unless – unless, it’s like I said, that you’re just the smartest <LAPSE TIME: no intelligible conversation; Transcript Time 18:21-18:23>

fucking guy around. Uhmn, umn, or you’re super human or something.

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<Clear-throat> <Sigh> <Unintelligible background noises> <Yawn> <Sniff> Ah – Oh, boy. <LAPSE TIME: no intelligible conversation; Transcript Time 18:24-18:33> <Unintelligible background noises/voices>
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More restraining orders and shit.

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complaining about me if I was such a bad person?

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Transcript*Time*18:33* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*8:21*am*

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<Yawn> <Unintelligible backgroud noises> <Yawn> <Cough> <Yawn> Uh-uh, no, no, no. I’ll probably eat mine later***. Do you want this?

want it you can have it. Thank you, man. Ah-- Fuck me. <Cough> <Blow-nose> <Spit> <Unintelligible background noises>

<Water flow>

<Flush-toilet>

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Ah –

<Unintelligible background noises/voices> Brooks? Sir. I have a detective that wants to talk to you. All right. Cool. Put your hands in the box, please. Come out. <Unintelligible background noises> <Sniff>
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<Unintelligible background noises/voices>

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***, I can just -- it doesn’t look that appetizing. I mean, if you

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Transcript*Time*18:38* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*8:26*am*

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 U U U U U G U U U

<Duncan exits cell> <Transcript Time 18:38> <LAPSE TIME: no intelligible conversation; Transcript Time 18:38-18:41> <Dial tone> For English, dial 1. <Beep> <Dial tone> Dial the phone number now. <Beep> Michael, Anthony’s client. One moment please. <Beep> quote, dial 7. <Beep> <Ring> <Beep>

Please say your name after the beep.

Thank you for using inmate communication. For a rate

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County Jail using Inmate Communication. The charge for this call is $6.60 for the first minute. One dollar for each additional minute. To refuse the call dial 5 and hang up now. Your call was refused. <Dial tone> <Beep> For English, dial 1. <Dial tone>
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Hello. ***. This is a collect call from Michael, Anthony’s client, from the

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Transcript*Time*18:43* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*8:31*am*

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 U U U G U U U U G please. U U

<Beep> Dial the phone number now. <Beep> Please say your name after the beep. <Beep> Michael, Anthony’s client. I need to speak to Anthony, <Sigh> quote, dial 7. <Ring> Hello. This is ***.

Thank you for using Inmate Communication. For a rate

County Jail using Inmate Communication.

The charge for this call is $6.60 for the first minute. One <Beep>

dollar for each additional minute.

Thank you for using Inmate Communication. Hello? Yeah, Anthony? Uh, no, this is David, actually. Anthony’s not in. I’m another Uhm, I talked to Anthony yesterday. He’s my, uh, attorney for Okay. Is this Mr. Gargiulo? Yes. Okay. Hi. How are you doing?
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one of the attorneys. How can I help you? G U G U another case. They have me in an El Monte Jail.

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<Unintelligible background noises>

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This is a collect call from Michael, Anthony’s client, from the

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Transcript*Time*18:44* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*8:32*am*

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G

I’m not doing good. Uhm, the

Homicide detectives started talking to me yesterday. Uhm, they tried saying there was a Homicide case in my building a while back, and saying that, uhm, they found, uh, a baseball cap and a shoe – they found physical evidence of me in the place to the Homicide case, uhm, and that Santa Monica – U G Mmnh. they found a shoe cover -- like the ones they pulled out of my car back in

-- With – with the person’s blood on it, that was left behind Now, the case, err, being whatever the physical evidence, I –

with – with my skin evidence on it.

I knew the person-- was an acquaintance with the person. Uhm, and, me for the – the Homicide, because the shoe cover was left there and U G Okay.

Uhm, I didn’t talk to them. Uhm, and they said they’re gonna

against me and, uh, for other Homicide cases or whatever the case may be. They said they talked to my daughter’s mom – which I don’t get along with. But, rr—regarding that supposeable case out here, I don’t

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know much about – but, it was just an acquaintance of a person I met. And, of course, they would have physical evidence in the place. As fars as the shoe covers, uhm, I can answer to that, or whatever the case may be. U G Hmnh. I mean, they would have to explain why the blood’s on there.

Ha, You know what I’m saying?
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arraign me because there’s been other – uh, many other detectives

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other physical evidence.

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but, they’re trying to say that I’m responsible and they’re gonna arraign

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Transcript*Time*18:46* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*8:34*am*

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U

Yeah. I know what that means.

Okay. So, when – when, uhm, -- did they say when they’re going to arrange – or arraign you? G I don’t know. But, they said there’s many – different detectives are after me from different towns. So, they’re gonna – they’re – it’s just getting out of hand. U G U G U G That’s ridiculous. So, you – are you still in El Monte now? Yes, I’m in the El Monte Jail. Yeah. And this is just getting out of hand.

And they’re taking you to Monterey Park now?

They’re like “You don’t wanna speak. That’s okay. You’re gonna have a uh, time. Uh, if you don’t want to talk, that’s fine. U G ***. But – but, through the whole case or whatever, we’re gonna

keep hassling you and hassling you and hassling you. And this is just not gonna go away.” U Okay. Do you have – do you have the detectives names by Yeah. And they said “Are you – are you willing to sit down

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chance? G

and talk with an attorney present?” I said “If my attorney advises me to, sure.” U G Alright. Uh – the, uh-the- they said, uhm, “Other detectives have

been hassling you. And, uh, you’ve just got cases building up.” Uh, they
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long trial ahead. We’re gonna keep on hassling you through the whole,

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I don’t know what the deal is. They – they were getting mad.

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gonna – I’m gonna be in Monterey Park today for another case. And this

Transcript*Time*18:47* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*8:35*am*

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were just – they came at 11:00 at night trying to scare me, saying they found a hat, uhm, with the person’s blood on it, in my place – which is bullshit. They’re lying. Uh, it’s a – it’s a hat that’s simulated the hat that I wear. But, it’s not my hat. U G U G U G U G U G U G U G Uh-huh. Okay. -- 890-5587. Okay. And it’s Joe Purcel. He’s a sergeant. Okay. Uhm, his cell phone number – Okay. -- 323- -Mmnh-mmnh. -- 574- -Okay. Uhm, 323 –

mom. She’s vindictive, trying to get full cont- -- custody of my daughter. My wife even didn’t want me to deal with my daughter, ‘cause she said she’s a crazy nut. But, during this time, uhm, when this happened, I was

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at home. And she was pregnant with the baby. But, she’ll do whatever to lie to fucking – you know what I’m saying? U U G U Yeah. So, she was, basically, telling them that, you know, --- *** -- She, all that – the detectives said that she had some very Okay. I’m just taking some notes here, so give me a second.
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interesting stories about me.

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-- 4637. And, uhm, they said they’ve talked to my daughter’s

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Transcript*Time*18:48* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*8:36*am*

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G

Uhm, as far as the shoe cover,

uhm, that they, supposedly, found, and that they’re stating, I keep shoe covers at my house. I’ve always kept them for my job. Uhm, and, also, I’ve offered em to many people. So, I don’t know how they’re gonna hang me on a shoe cover. G And they said they had other physical evidence. I don’t know U Mmnh, yeah.

– uhm, been there a few times. They – they said they had a witness stating that, uhm, I would go to the handle and look in the window. Uhm, but, uh, if it was that day that it supposedly happened, it’s impossible, because they would have arrested me a long time ago. G U G U What was that? U One would think, yeah.

Yeah. They wouldn’t wait a year and-a-half after. Well, unless, they were – unless, they were putting

were just putting everything together. G U the person that says witnessed me, I used to talk to all the time. So, --

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yeah, come on by tomorrow. Let’s talk.” Yeah. And, uh, wasn’t it a common thing to do was knock on the Now, is this a building in El Monte?
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door and look in the window to see if someone’s home?

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Well, the thing is, I lived in the building. And I – whoever is Mmnh-mmnh. And it – it would be common sense if someone told you “Hey,

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everything together. I mean, you know, it’s theoretically possible they

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One would think that that – they would have, yes.

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what. But – but, I was an acquaintance with the person. And – and, uh,

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Transcript*Time*18:50* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*8:38*am*

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G U G

Yeah – where I used to live. Okay, okay, that’s where *** just trying to figure out why it But, I – you know, uh, to prove that I knew the person, I know

was out there. Okay. a little bit about the person, ‘cause the per – the person sat down and oh, she was so beautiful, and this and that. But, I didn’t look at her like

and help her with her – her – if I could bring her clothes in. And we just – an acquaintance, talked. And – and whatever she said, she was, uh, divorce or whatever the case may be. And – so, I’ve been to that place a few times. U G stuff, uh – U G U U U G –address. U And what street it was on even?
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So, as far as them saying they have physical evidence and

Okay. What – what was her name? <Unintelligible background noises heard>

G G

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gonna try and look up some information on it. Oh, fuck. Uhm –oh, shit. I don’t remember my old – the add-

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Not even her first name? The first name? Yeah. I believe it’s *** marie *** Maria. Okay. And what was the address of the building? I’m just

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I don’t know.

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stuff, uh, of course, they have physical evidence. As far as any other

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Mmnh-mmnh.

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that. She just, one day, asked me to, uhm, help her with her groceries

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talked to me a few times. And they’re trying to make it look that she –

Transcript*Time*18:51* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*8:39*am*

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 ‘em. sort.

G U G U G U G U G U

Lower Azusa. Okay. 91731. What was my address back then? How long ago did you live there? About a year and-a-half ago. Okay. Did they tell you the date that this was supposed to I don’t remember. They said it was in November of some Okay.

have happened?

November or December. I don’t really – I didn’t really talk to Yeah, I understand that– I didn’t know if they were telling you

anything or what. Okay. And, I mean, your best course of action, at this look into this and see if we can’t get any more information to see if they – you know, if they’re actually, uhm, filing a case against you, on – on this G a hat? U Why would they arraign me based on a shoe cover and – and If they – I mean, you know, honestly, if they have any sort of one or not and see – see what’s going on. So –

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physical evidence, whatsoever, they can – you know, they can put things together. G U What do they mean by “physical evidence?” Uhm, whether it be – well, physical evidence would be the –

you know, the shoe covers, the hat – you know, any DNA-type stuff. You know, *** anything proving that you were there, at that time, I guess. G Well, regardless, the hat – the hat they showed me, -299

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point, is to – to keep not talking to them, because I’m gonna certainly

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Transcript*Time*18:53* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*8:41*am*

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U G

Mmnh-mmnh. -- Uhm, I could – uh, I was wearing a Boston hat of my own.

And the person asked me “Hey.” So, I gave the person a hat. But, I don’t even know if I ever wore it or not. So, that’s just common sense why it would be there. not you can explain anything away, doesn’t make a difference in – in like – your ability to – to – say there’s a – you know, a reason for anything, is something that comes out later, unfortunately. It’s not something that they’re gonna, uhm – G They’re just trying to tack everything on to me. And then, U Yeah. Well, I mean there’s explana – obviously, whether or

back home in Chicago. There was problems in Hollywood. The those cases. And they’re just trying to nail everything on me for my case a long time ago – I didn’t cooperate, ‘cause I knew nothing about it. And -- Because what I was saying is “I’m a business guy. And, if I meet people, how do I know their problems or if anything’s gonna happen to them?” And I go in their house and my DNA is there, and my – a hair they’re – st – you know

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drops in their house, and something happens to them, uh, you know what I’m saying? U G U G U Yeah. This is just getting out of hand. Well, do you have, uh, fairly regular access to a phone? I have this phone. That’s it. No, I know. But, you can – you can make a call later today
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detectives are gonna be questioning you again and hassling you on

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they tell me they’re taking me to another court. There was problems

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their eyes, at this point. If they have something, you know, that’s – that’s

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