Transcript*Time*25:35* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*3:23*pm

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D G D G

Oh. “We just need an explanation.” And then, I said “You know Well – *** the guy. I could have been in the house like. “Okay.

what? I don’t know. I don’t remember.”

someone saw you come out right after the –“ <Whistle> J S D S J S D Mr. Baker, your attorney ***. Fucking A, It’s about time. ***show up? Mmnh. Yeah. <Open-cell door> ***. *** bastard. Hmmnh.

<Staley exits cell> <Transcript Time 25:36> <Clear-throat> J

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G U D G D G

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think they base it on the circumstance. But, you know what, dude?
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***.

<Unintelligible background noises/voices> *** in cuffs? Huh? *** out of hand cuffs ***. You’re here for murder. I’m here for beating my old lady. Isn’t he in for murder? Manslaughter. There’s a big difference, you know. They – I

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<Close-cell door>

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Well, anyways, we’re charging you, because we know you did it. And

Transcript*Time*25:37* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*3:25*pm*

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Don’t worry it. G I’m fucking scared of my life, dude. This is bullshit. <Unintelligible background noises> <Sigh> G They’re fucking tacking everything on my tail. Lying, <Sigh> G D G D They did? <No audible response> cheating, stealing.

I wonder what that’s all about. Why does – why does that <Chuckle>

even matter? D

Okay. So, you push the Downey one out the way. And now

them – making up shit. G D G D happening.

Man, that’s what –

They’re telling me they’re charging me for these. I understand that. Okay. You – you knew that was Yeah. Okay. They must have something in common that makes

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them believe that – that you’re the guy. Now, it could be just the MO. Or it could be some kind of evidence like an eyewitness or DNA, or both— <Sigh> D You know. You know? <Clear-throat>
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That’s what your attorney’s gonna find out.

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you deal with the other ones. Listen, I wouldn’t worry too much about

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They tell me I looked the first one in the eyes the witness.

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Transcript*Time*25:43* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*3:31*pm*

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G D

<No audible response> <Unintelligible background noises> Hmnh. <LAPSE TIME: no intelligible conversation; Transcript Time 25:40: 25:43> <Unintelligible background noises/voices>

U D

***. Huh, Hmnh. <Unintelligible background noises> <Water flow>

G D

Well, what are you facing, man?

You know what, man? I – uh, everything should go as – as I

which means that, if I – <Flush-toilet> D

<Unintelligible background noises/voices> I’ll probably get a year. ***, because it’s at the County, all I’m <Cough> D D D G D G G G gonna have to do is like, uh, 25 percent –

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Okay. This is how you do it. ***. Mmnh-mmnh.
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-- Which means three months. <Whisper> *** key *** I’ll make a key, Do you think it’ll work? I know. All right. It might. I will ***uh. <Whisper> ***. Well, ***, right? <Whisper> Oh, yeah. You know what? If ***. Yeah, it would work.

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think it’s gonna go. I’m probably gonna get, uh, uhm, a County lid, uhm,

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Transcript*Time*25:45* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*3:33*pm*

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D

Okay. You stick it in there where

that little slot is. You stick it in there and move it up against that round circle. And just drag it around. Okay. G D G D G D G D G D G D G D G D D D G D G G G ***. Yeah. Yeah--Yeah, yeah, yeah. ***. Mmnh-mmnh. *** flat. ***with it? You know what I’m saying?

Yeah. It’s a round circle with a – little a little slot --

***. Put it in the slot and move it up and grab it. It’ll work. Yeah. Yeah. Put it inside first. Then, move it around. Oh, we got a problem. Yeah, we got a problem. You gotta Shit. ‘Cause you do know that fucking conference room ***. Right up there. Oh, is that where you went? Mmnh-mmnh. I don’t know where that is – but – If you look this way, across the***. Oh, the one with the – with the, uh – the – with the No, it’s around –***. Oh, okay. Okay. ‘Cause ***. Yeah.
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get something stiffer than that.

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mirrored lining -- the mirrored glass, the conference room?

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Which conference room?

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Transcript*Time*25:46* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*3:34*pm*

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D

*** Well, you know about that shit <Clear-throat>

than I do, air conditioning guy. D G D You have to pick a time. ***. Well, you’re supposed to, if you’re a K-10 – you’re High <Unintelligible background noises>

fucked up. Yeah, you’re right, last night was. G D G D <Unintelligible background noises>

*** nothing to do with shit -- nothing. ***, dude. Okay. Well, *** only option you got, right?

people you don’t even know?

They got eyewitnesses. Uh, you’re gonna have a hard time explaining it. Can it be done? Yes, you can. Why? You’re a foreman. Or you’re – G D D G <No audible response> Okay. That’s enough. Right? <No audible response> Well, okay, so, we explain it away. You do like you’re doing you’re – you’re a heating electrical guy, right?

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right now, just fucking hammer at them. Hammer, hammer, hammer. Uh, no acting, uh, just fucking keep hitting ‘em. No, no, no, no. no. That’s one way. Right? It’s a hard way to go. Like I – I don’t know if I’d do it. I probably would. I don’t know. Uhm, -G D Dude, I can’t believe *** all this shit. ***?
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I don’t know. Let’s look at it, though. They got your DNA.

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How do you fucking come up with an option on a person --

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Power, you’re fucking locked up, dude. It’s like they have to. They

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Transcript*Time*25:47* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*3:35*pm*

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G D G D G D

*** case. Why don’t you make a deal? <No audible response> I’ll tell you. Fuck, I’ll tell you something. *** make a deal? Uh, shit, you don’t even know – Well, no, I – I meant – absolutely, no. But, if I – if I knew I <Cough>

was gonna get fucked, knowing that they got the goods on me – D

-- And they had the goods on me, then, what I would do – <Clear-throat>

fuck it. Let me tell you something. D

You know – you know those – you know all those girls that

families are calling those Homicide detectives every fucking day to find G D G D Mmnh-mmnh.

Okay. It’s very, very stressful and a lot of pressure for those Why would I wanna sit in jail for the rest of my life, when I I wouldn’t do any of it, dude. If you didn’t do it, fuck it. Fight it

haven’t done anything?

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and make them prove everything. That’s what I’d do. If you didn’t do it, fucking make ‘em prove – G D meds? G No.
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man. Hey, you – have you ever taken fucking meds? Like psych

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They’ll give me a fucking lifetime, even if you didn’t do it,

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guys, I’m sure. Okay. They are dying to clear cases.

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out what the hell happened to their – their precious little daughter?

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were killed, they all have families. Okay. And you don’t think those

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Transcript*Time*25:49* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*3:37*pm*

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D G D G D G D

Never? Do – do you ever feel like Maybe. Then, do you think maybe you could, uh, exploit that? Anxiety attacks *** defense. Hey, remember the guy that shot President Reagan? A guy Mmnh-mmnh.

you should?

named Hinckley.

You know what they did? You know – you know, when he

went home for a – well, hell, he might even be released. The guy that shot the fricking president, got out. And you – you think he spent a day in prison? <Chuckle> D G D G D G D D G For how long? Huh?

No. He spent it in fucking – he spent it in a psyche hospital.

For how long was he there? ***a long time, dude. But, my point to you is, if you didn’t do it, then, fight it. ***. Why not? Fucking ***. You know what I mean? *** doing

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that shit ***. So, if you’re a smart guy, and you know how to fucking play the game – G D ***. You probably have, uh, maybe ***, you know, once in a while.

But, most of the time, it’s just bullshit, you know. Uh, I don’t – I don’t think it’s ***. Yeah, It’s nothing like High Power either.
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Fifteen years.

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Transcript*Time*25:50* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*3:38*pm*

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G D G D G D G D way – G D G D

Dude, I can’t believe I’m looking Well, then fight it, uh, you know, -*** for one little case. *** fight it off – Fight fucking everything. If you didn’t do it, fucking fight it. Oh, dude. One little case.

at a jail term for shit I didn’t do.

But, if you did, start thinking – start fucking thinking, man.

Start fucking thinking. That’s all I can tell you. Start thinking about a Why would I wanna lose my family? No, I understand that.

No, you’re a businessman. You’re a smart guy. So, this is

what you do. If you did it, start thinking about – say, okay, “Fellas, I’m say “No, no, no,” say “Fuck it. Fucking everything’s off the table.” And they’ll fucking jump at you. *** -- but, that’s only if you did it. <Clear-throat> If you didn’t do it, fight on. Don’t you think my attorney would tell me what to do? Yeah, he’ll tell you what to do. When he meets with me? Yeah, he’ll tell you exactly what to do. He’ll assess it and

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G G D

look at it. The only reason I’m talking about it is that I get tired of – I hear people – I see people all the time that I talk to. And they – they sit
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gonna make a deal. You do this for me, I’ll do this for you.” And if they

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A smart guy like me? Why am I gonna be dumb?

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Don’t let them railroad you.

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Transcript*Time*25:52* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*3:40*pm*

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around and let their attorney come up with a – with a – the – the attorney come up with an alibi or – or a story. And you figure they could probably, if they’re smart enough, make up a much better story. That’s all. But, if I didn’t do it, I’d let my attorney do almost everything. If do everything. G D G D G D Man, I’m a hundred percent innocent. – honestly, if I was – if I was innocent of murder, I would let my attorney

Well, then, let your – fucking make your attorney work – earn A hundred percent. Yeah.

his fucking – earn his – earn his shit. Make him ***.

of one stupid case from my blood ***.

gonna be a long haul for you. But, I would not ever – ever tell you to, uh, plead guilty to anything that you didn’t do. That’s fucking bull-shit. Or they got shit that’s gonna put you there – I mean, I don’t know what they have. But, if they do, uhm, you better start thinking of shit, one way or the other. D J even making a deal. That’s not – fuck that. But, dude, if they got – if

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<Unintelligible background noises/voices> That was a short visit. <Unintelligible background noises/voices> Come on in. <Open-cell door> <Staley re-enters cell> <Transcript Time 25:54> That was a short visit.
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Mmnh. Make him – make him earn it, then, you know. It’s

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Transcript*Time*25:54* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*3:42pm*

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S J J S J J J J

That’s right. <Unintelligible background noises/voices> Hey. Hey, give me fucking Baker. Get him back over here. What? All right. Baker? Apparently, he is not done with you. ***. Are you coming? *** He’s coming. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Come on.

<Unintelligible background noises/voices> <Close-cell door> D D What the fuck? Huh.

<Staley exits cell> <Transcript Time 25:54>

<Unintelligible background noises/voices> <Chuckle> <Sigh> <Cough> G D D arrest me then?

If they have all this shit from years ago, then, why didn’t they I don’t know, man. I don’t know. That’s all I’m saying. Yeah. There’s no new developments. If they have witnesses from I don’t know. I know. They’re full of shit, dude. They’re doing everything to

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the beginning – what? They just have witnesses all of a sudden now?

plant – *** on my ass because they have no other evidence. They find
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I guess his attorney had more to say.

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Transcript*Time*25:56* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*3:44*pm*

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the one that’s got the record and now all this shit’s going down, and they place it on him. That’s what happens all the time, dude. <Unintelligible background noises/voices> G D D G D G D When I knew my DNA was taken, why would I be dumb Man, <Cough> I don’t know. ***. Maria Rodriguez, who the fuck is that? Who? Maria Rodriguez? I ‘ve no idea, man. enough to go into – into anyone’s house? They’re so full of shit.

about it. Worry about the other ones, dude. Seriously, worry about, the, fucking, uh – uh, whatever – the LAPD one the – the – the El Monte one. Was there another? G D G D D G D G G <No audible response> Chicago, El Monte, LAPD – I don’t know. You said that I’m fucking hungry, dude. You’re hungry? <No audible response> Did you eat those apples? <Chuckle> *** this one here, I’m gonna eat it though. Then, eat it , dude. Good for you. Oh, my God. They said they had other detectives that wants
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Downey is fucking out of the picture. Fuck it. It’s out of the picture.

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the ones that we’ve talked about. Worry about those – the Chicago one,

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Transcript*Time*25:57* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*3:45*pm*

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to come and speak to me from Monterey Park. D G D G G Really? Yeah. All right. Now, another fucking case – <Chuckle> Yeah

evidence and they’re gonna charge, because they have a witness, DNA. <Chuckle> G witness ***. D G uh, *** not – not too likely, I guess. It doesn’t make sense, huh? What’s the likelihood of a Well, you know, I’m thinking, uh, if, uh – if it’s done at night, If it’s for them to lie man and say this person’s in a lot of

trouble with this many homicides. Might as well just say he did it, they won’t let me go free. <Laughter> D gonna let go.

Yeah, man, they’re like dogs with bones, you know, they ain’t <Unintelligible background nosies /voices> So, what kind of – what you, what you think, uh, what kind of I ‘ve ***, dude. <Unintelligible background noises> If you decided to go that way, would you –sa –what – which I could say “I black out, I don’t remember.”
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mental, uh, problem do you got? Anxiety? G D G

one would you pick? Or which one are you?

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They all have the same story. They have my physical

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Transcript*Time*26:00* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*3:48*pm*

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D G

*** bi-polar, fucking manic Then—then, they give you fucking medicine , ‘cause I’m <Chuckle>

depressive, -gonna start freaking out, ‘cause you’re not *** – D you know. <UninteIligible background noises> D G D No, not if –Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, you know, what ***, man,

I mean, I don’t – I don’t know – what kind- what kind of ***got. Would you take medicines for shit that you weren’t? – ***. No, well I’ll tell you what. If – if it was – if it was that

choice, and you’d be, uh, maybe, uh – uhm, stay – uh, spend the rest of G D G D G D G D D G D I’ll have my attorney come up with a case *** . I’ll have my attorney come up with a – a plan that they’ve Yeah. It’s a tough one to prove, though, man. No way, man, they’re crooked. It’s been on the news. Ah – People-false line-ups. Detectives doing that – detectives But, you know— <Unintelligible background noises/voices> I ‘m just trying to be real here. I’ll like –I try to – They all have the same – how the fuck could they have the I don’t know.
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been throwing everything on me. That it’s LA and they’re crooked.

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doing that.

same evidence for every case?

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I’m sorry. You’ll have to say it again.

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my life in prison or worse, I might think about it.

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Transcript*Time*26:01* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*3:49*pm*

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G D G D D G D G D before. G D

It’s impossible. I don’t know. They all have DNA? They said they had the same physical evidence for every I don’t know. Maybe – I don’t know. I mean, you know— I don’t know. If they ha, if they had DNA and an eyewitness Every one they said they have witnesses. “Witness” could be Yeah. It doesn’t mean that –

case that link me to them. <Laughter>

– mean anything. That, they’ve seen me before.

So, yeah. Yeah. That’s right. You see, you – you got – it

seems to me, ***, uh, benefit of having a job like you have, and being in heating. G D D D G G G

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girls up. Right? Oh, God. hell, yeah. You know what they’re trying to do? Cause I used to pull up Bundy *** my wife ***. She’s doing the different
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Why would I be on the Better Business Bureau list then? I don’t know. A Triple A rating. Yeah. A triple A rating – the best – if I’m in so much trouble? Yeah, you get – too busy doing other things to be out slicing

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plenty of people’s houses. Everybody needs air conditioning and

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Doesn’t mean that they put me there.

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Yeah. Yeah. I know that guy, I’ve seen them around here

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for every single one that seems kind of unlikely to me. But, --

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Transcript*Time*26:03* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*3:51*pm*

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reports. They got that on my computer. So, that’s what they’re trying to S G D know. G D know. <Laughter> G D And I ***. G D G D G D different stuff. Yeah. Maybe serial killers do what? Oh, like serial killers ***? Yeah. Yeah. That’s what they’re doing, man. Yeah, could be. Could be, you know. But, you know, I don’t

You know what I mean? Look at the other people’s work, you

You, you’ve never looked up, uh, Bundy and all that shit?

Oh, is that right? For school? That was for her sake. Yeah. Yep, oh, I’ll tell you what. They were smart little <No audible response> You gotta admire that. You got to admire the John Gottis, uh, Did John Gotti die ? Yes. When did he die?
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fuckers, though, those ones whose names are out there, right? G D G D G

too, man, the one with the serial murders, ‘cause they’re smart crooks.

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‘Cause my wife was doing a report.

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I didn’t know much about him. I just pulled him up just

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Oh, sure, you know, I’ll watch – watch documentaries on it.

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know. Maybe guys – uh, uh, maybe serial killers do that shit. I don’t

Transcript*Time*26:05* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*3:53*pm*

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Uh, awhile back fuck, five years

ago, something like that – all I remember wa-was I thought it was cancer. I’m not sure. <Sigh> G D G D G D Isn’t that great? They all have all this physical evidence, but, Yeah. I mean, you know, I mean that’s --*** <Laughs> there’s no cuts on my hands, only one, no scars anywhere?

-- You know, I don’t know. I don’t know how they ***. He was looking at me like “Let me see your left hand. Let me *** So what if you do? What if you have scars? You know, <Cough>

see your palm.” Mmnh. you’re –you’re a – D G D G You have –

I’m just saying I don’t – that’s the thing. But, even if you did, you’re doing a job where you’re *** in air I know. But, still, I don’t – that’s the thing. <Unintelligible background noises> <Sigh> Where they’re gonna have me in fucking the prison now? *** Oh, okay. ***? Yeah. Phew, I don’t know, man. See, now, there’s – there’s – that’s

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G D G D

possible because if they feel they aren’t – if they’re not just pulling your leg. You’re here. You’re not watching TV. They’re not trying to scare you
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conditioning.

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Transcript*Time*26:06* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*3:54*pm*

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if they put out a press release. You’re not watching. Everybody else has been but you. So— I think what they’re trying to do is to get people to come forward. They feel they got enough to put out a press release then, wait for the phone calls to ring. Just a guess, ‘cause it doesn’t affect you personally. you know, and – and we’ll get him to come in and – and, uh, -- uh, happening. You’re in here. I don’t know. <Yawn> D G D G D G D G D G D My mom is dead. Really? Yeah. When did she die? How old was she? I mean, that – you know, they’re not saying “Ooh, we’re gonna scare him, confess to all these.” Uh, ‘cause you, you don’t even know what’s

What do your parents have to say about all of this shit, man?

Like two or three yr– two years ago. Sixty-two.

That’s too fricking *** *** aneurysm because of the-high blood pressure What the hell, man? She was too young to die then. <Unintelligible background noises/voices> What cell are they gonna have me in jail? They’re gonna Yeah. They’ll probably put you in High Power. In what? High Power.
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***constantly, tearing her door down every year, messing up the house.

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make it worse, huh?

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Transcript*Time*26:08* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*3:56*pm*

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G D G D G D

Where’s that? down there? Uhm – uh, -- uh, at, uh – uh, what’s it called? Central Jail. That’s where I’ve been – in High Power. Yeah. ***. <Sigh> <Unintelligible background noises> <Open-cell door> But, they put you down here.

<Staley re-enters cell.> <Transcript Time 26:09> U ***. <Close-cell door> D S D S D S S S D <Unintelligible background noises>

What the hell was that all about? Did, did your attorney have Yeah. I – I gotta sign some fucking papers. Yeah. You know, I didn’t – we got to talking and I didn’t fucking sign Uh-huh. So, he can get paid. Oh. Of course, he’s gonna call me back for that ***. <Cough/clear-throat> Well, they got to *** some point in time, ***. I said “So, what <Chuckle>

‘em when I walked back.

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do they got?” I said “Dude, what the fuck? I was hoping you’d tell me.” S It’s hot in here.
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a second, uh – uh, he forgot to tell you something?

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Transcript*Time*26:10* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*3:58*pm*

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D S D S D S

Yeah. It’s hot in the afternoon, get fucking warm –get you to work. Oh, yeah. ***. Yep. <Yawn> Well, he, uh – he got the paper work on the arraignment So, he doesn’t know what’s gonna happen with it?

bail reduction. D S D S D S D S Oh. Cool. Yeah. Then, what? Yeah.

So, if that happens, I might be able to make bail. Hmnh.

But, I don’t know. Uh, they may – you know, I don’t think

just stroking me. D found guilty?

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nine. It ain’t gonna be three, ‘cause I got prior shit. So, if I’m lucky, it could be six. D S beat it.
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Did he tell you how much time you’re looking at if you’re <Yawn> No. Shit, dude, I could be – I could be doing, uh, three, six or

Yeah, but, doesn’t he think you can beat your fucking case? Well, ***, I’m just saying if I get convicted of-– I think I can

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they’re gonna give me a fucking bail to be honest with you. I think he’s

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Well, fuck then – maybe I’ll get out here.

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today. Uhm, he’s gonna see about getting me fucking a bail deviation,

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Transcript*Time*26:11* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*3:59*pm*

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D S D S D S

***. You know what? That’s a – Yeah. Oh, I’ll fight it. ***. -- Yeah. ‘Cause that’s a fist fight, man. Oh, I’ll go with a fucking self-defense thing, man. This shit was four – four and-a-half years ago. There ain’t Yeah.

to me, that’s a case, uh, worth, uh – worth fighting right there, because –

begin with, so – D D D Yeah. <Clear-throat> You guys, you know what? <Cough>

You see the – you see boxers getting – uh, you know, during

fucking end up dying, later – S guys – D S D S

Yeah. Well, that’s, you know –uh, yeah, I – I’m sure there’s

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you go outside. Somebody throws a punch. Yeah. Well, the good news is they can’t interview that <Laughter> <Clear-throat> D That’s true.
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mother fucker.

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Yeah.

-- Getting paralyzed and shit, too. Yeah. But, you’re out, you know, you’re drinking in the bar,

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some kind of an exception if somebody goes - it’s like football and the

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– during the boxing match, uh – uh, if one of them go down, and – and

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gonna be nobody around remember *** ‘cause nobody was around to

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Transcript*Time*26:12* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*4:00*pm*

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 S D S D S D S S D D G S G S S D S D as shit. S D S S

<Unintelligible background noises> You got that right. <Yawn> Homeboy tell you about, uh – you know, the police Yeah. Fu-u-ck. Well, you know – **** – he, uh, was scared Yeah. Nobody wants to get the needle. <Cough/clear-throat> Me? Mmnh. department *** showing up?

Yeah. Been to Mexico lately? No, I’m just – if things get too fucking shitty – Yeah, you wanna go? -- I may, yeah – Yeah, well -- Retire down there, you know. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yep. When are you planning on getting up there? What’s that? Well, you mean, when you get out of jail? No, I mean, if it fucking – if I get convicted and they’re gonna
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Ah, no. It’s been years. Why?

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Uhm, when was the last time you were down in Mexico?

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Transcript*Time*26:14* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*4:02*pm*

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

give me – I’ll get hit with nine years, phew, fuck that. Prob-probably gonna go to Mexico, ‘cause, uh – G S Huh? Uh, well, both – I’m trying to get out on a – you know, on a,

uh, OR or bail or something like that. And, uh, -- if it’s looking like shit D S D S D S D S D S Yeah, yeah. And you can do a lot for yourself.

live that, uh – Yeah. Yep.

-- You know, like behind those compounds and shit --- To where they – I mean there-- Americans retire Yeah, the Mexican government doesn’t care. I mean, they Just gotta stay out of fucking trouble, man. <Cough/clear-throat>

down there. They buy property and shit.

don’t care about *** us *** this country anything. Yeah, that’s the problem. If you get 50 years in a Mexican prison, man, that’s 50

fucking years. It ain’t, uh, 50 years and one day, or 49 years and 364,

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you know. And it – it is ***. This would be like a presidential palace *** down there. I’ve got thrown in down there a long time ago, when I was a kid, down TJ. Stupid. <Chuckle> S D It’s fucked. Alotta kids do that. <Yawn>
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You know, they got a lot of places down there that Americans

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during the trial, fuck, I’ll just go on down south.

Transcript*Time*26:15* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*4:03*pm*

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S D S

Take all your fucking money. Yeah. Probably attorneys are shit *** *** bail, they don’t even call you. Fuck it, they give you a

phone call. And they – and then, they rob your fucking -- whoever comes to get you, and take all their fucking money. And then, they kick you <Clear throat> <Unintelligible background noises heard> S G S G D S you know? G S S D S D D If you ***. <Sigh> But, it’s a good place. What’s that? Those bars. Oh, dude, that looks tough. loose.

If we fucking pulled down *** we could break those bars.

I mean, how are you gonna do that with the camera, dude,

Well, uhm, I’m not saying that you never ***. But – I don’t know how you get through that shit. The I’m telling you dude that is steel or iron. Yeah. And it’s not – <Cough/clear-throat> -- And it’s not this pole ***. All those windows are reinforced <Unintellible background noises>

windows are easy. It’s – the bars. You probably had to take –

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with ,uh stainless steel kind of mesh. S Yeah.
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Transcript*Time*26:16* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*4:03*pm*

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 there. •••.

G D G D S D S the ***. D S D S G D D

Dude, but, I’m talking about these Okay. But, just like the other ones. They paint ‘em? Yeah, just painted. They’re just painted so you can’t look out. I’m sure they are.

Exactly the same.

Probably the same all the way down.

Yeah. I think there’s an easier way to get out—mmnh, if you I think he does. Like what? <Sigh> Tsk, well, look—

processed, in downtown, you know, off the bus, some weaknesses in S S

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Did you tell him about the interview room? ***. Well – Yeah. <Cough/clear-throat> Well, the *** talked to me. What’s that? Where are the flaws? Well, you know what I mean? When you hope that, uh, -424

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-- I know – I know that when you get -- when you get

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really wanted to.

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Look to see how these bars got this cross part right here on

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Transcript*Time*26:18* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*4:06*pm*

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when I *** the bar, ***the bus, and, you know, things like that, there’s ***, you know, you can – you can – you can do it. You know, *** you look around, you can see shit. Uh, you know and of course there’s the old wristband swap, you know, you know, I mean, saying “Yeah,” you know – you know, and some other guy’s going to***. D You know, that happens all the time probably. There’s so <Cough>

in the L.A. County Jail system. G D S Uh-uh. Yeah. <Clear-throat> S D S D S S

Okay. ***. I’m sure they mistakes all the time down there.

<Unintelligible background noises> mean, you gotta have somebody that’s – *** outside. You know, *** you get out of here, Who’s gonna give you ***. You need a support group. <Clear-throat> ‘Cause what happens is this. Let’s just say, for example— <Clear-throat> -- You get out of this place. *** around here. They’re gonna Bloodhounds. Huh? Bloodhounds. Yeah, dogs and all the other shit.
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set up roadblocks and – and helicopters and all that shit. D S D S

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You gotta have – uh – you got to have a plan, though. I

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many people. You know, you see how many people there are down in –

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Transcript*Time*26:19* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*4:07*pm*

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 D S S S S S G S

<Cough> If you’re still here, they got a pretty good chance of grabbing ***. But, I mean, you’re taking a chance with that, because, you your ass. But, if you get in a car, and fucking split, they’re –

I’m saying? And you’re talk — <Clear-throat> <Clear-throat>

You’re talking about – *** or something like that.

You know, that’s a – that’s gonna be a tough one. You’re –

you’re better off trying to get somebody, you know, to come and get you. I mean? If you’ve got somebody, I mean, on this, who’s gonna help you <Cough/clear-throat> <Chuckle>

It’s pretty hot *** over in the sun. Huh. It’s hotter than shit, I’m baking, yeah. <Cough/clear-throat> Maybe sit over there, *** man. I’m all right, dude. Uh, I don’t ***, you know. *** locked up, I Oh, by the way, this hallway out here, that is a keypad that at Uh-huh. They – they have keys, too, though. But, I don’t know if the

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D S D S

was fine. I’m used to being ***. the end to get out.

keys, that the jailers have, open up this door. But, I’m telling you, there’s
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out, then, you know for sure they are going to be there.

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You can’t be sure that a pickup truck is gonna come by. You know what

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know, the chance is – unless you know who’s driving ***. You know what

Transcript*Time*26:21* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*4:09*pm*

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a keypad behind this door right here. D S G S D G D G S D S ***. *** on the other end of the hall, too. Yeah, but, that –*** girl is with the camera. Mmnh-mmnh. ***. Hmn? *** big red button is it?

kinds of shit. *** the button. *** girl. Oh-- ***. Oh. Oh, okay. Well –

see who she’s opening the door for. <Cough/clear-throat> S G S G D D G *** at night. Yeah. Well. ***.

It may be on the outside.

*** trouble. <Whisper>

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person – one – one jailer comes to the door. Have to do it quiet. G D How hard is that ? I don’t know. Look. I got a pretty good arm. You know what

I mean? I – I – I can’t slip – I can’t stake my paycheck on the fact that *** out on the first punch. G Can you?
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I just don’t know how we’d do it, man. When you get one

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So that means – that means there’s a camera, so she can

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There’s a big red button. ***, that sets off the alarms and all

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Transcript*Time*26:22* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*4:10pm*

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S

Well, you gotta hit -- well, you

know, fuck here *** hit him in the right spot on that. I don’t know. I mean, I can *** to the spot. I just think, dude, that a full-on deal like that, isn’t gonna be as successful like what you’re talking about over there with the handcuff thing. I think that’s a smart fucking idea there, G S I’d never get the chance ***. because, I mean,

are going, shit, you might get three or more fucking whacks added. You know what I mean? You don’t how many fucking ***. Depending on ***, today. But, tomorrow, may be another story, you know. D S D D G S Court? You got court. <Clear-throat> And, uh, trying to think of something else –

You’re gonna be going to court. Right? <No audible response> Here’s another problem. Here’s another deal. Those guys

that talked to you today, they’re gonna come back and talk to you, again. All right. I can guarantee they’re not just gonna show up empty-handed. they’re gonna be coming at you, again. They’re gonna let you sit there

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and think about that shit. And they’re coming back and gonna give you a chance to, you know, come back around or whatever. So, you’re – you’re gonna get into trouble, man. ***. <Unintelligible background noises> <Cough/clear-throat> D S Man, you won’t be surprised next time. Yeah, *** be fucked up last night with that ***.
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You don’t know that dude – ‘cause the fucking way things

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Transcript*Time*26:23* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*4:11*pm*

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 is.

G D

They fucked me ***. You know, they -- *** I-I-I promise you, they *** speaking ***,

because, uh, you know, you got a certain security level on ***. You gotta be fucking *** handcuffs. S D S Yeah, that’s why they only handcuffed us. They should be Yeah. Uh, maybe. I don’t know. I don’t know what the cutoff I don’t know either. I know why they’re handcuffing you, <Cleaer-throat> S handcuffing me, though.

because of all this shit.

You got them all fucking creeped up and shit about it. Ugh –

fucking run – which they could. <Laugh> G S couldn’t. G D What’d you say?

They could catch me if I fucking had run. You, they probably ***. But, uh, *** but, the El Monte guys were like “We know Yeah.

you’re fast, and powerful.”

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They said ***. <Cough> <Unintelligible background noises> D G D Man, I wish I had a knock-out punch. In the throat. Mmn?
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“You’re not gonna do nothing, though, are you?” I said “No.”

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Plus, they could probably – think they could probably catch me if I had

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Transcript*Time*26:24* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*4:12*pm*

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 cars?

G D G D S G S

You him em in the throat. Oh, in the throat? Yeah. ***. Yeah. That’s true. I hit a guy in the throat one time, and I denied it. I missed. I Yeah.

I caught him right underneath the chin here. Fuck, man, he went down. D S G D G D S D G D S Yeah. <Cough/clear-throat> I went, uh – when I was a kid –

*** fucking ***. Yeah. ***.

You might as well turn on the lights while you’re doing it. I know. It’s not ***. <Laughter> *** Plus, she’ll be able to hear’em, too, ‘cause they’re – you hear Yeah. People would be talking about that one for a while. Yeah, take it all the way to Mexico. Yeah. Go right to the border with the siren on.
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the radio. D S D S

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I don’t know.

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Where do the—where do they keep the keys for the cop

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was just hitting in the head, in the face. And he fucking leaned back and

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Transcript*Time*26:26* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*4:14*pm*

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 D S D S D S G S D S G D S

<Laughter> That’d be cool. “Get the fuck out of the way.” Get on the fucking ***, dude, ***tracking devices on those cars. Shit, by now, they figured out whose car it was and shit, how <Cough/clear-throat> <Chuckle>

“Get the fuck out of the way.” ***.

It’s the one hauling ass out of *** down TJ. It’s the one not in El Monte anymore. Yeah, I know. Goes about 120.

Yeah. Fuck it, if you got a cop car, and you got a siren and Yeah, yeah I think so. And maybe even maybe even quicker, Yeah, if there’s no traffic, yeah. But, you can – shit, you Wouldn’t they stop you at the border, though? Well, you know what? me, personally, I wouldn’t try to cross

because ***. could take the –

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the border to – I’d just take it around the corner and stop it, get out and walk across is what I’d do, ‘cause, you know, once you’re there, I mean, G D G D Without an ID? Huh? You don’t need an ID or *** ? Oh, I don’t think so.
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lights on it, you could be to the Mexican border in probably two hours.

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would you know, you know?

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Transcript*Time*26:27* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*4:15*pm*

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S

Not to go into Mexico. But,

coming out of Mexico, back here, --Yeah, you need to have papers and shit. But, not to go south. <Yawn> D G S D G D S That’s part of the problem. People go down there. And they ***people ***. <Whisper> Well – <Clear-throat> *** don’t bring any shit. And they’re *** shit.

You saw that big motherfucker here last night. I – I know that. He’s a big motherfucker. I don’t know what See, my thing is, I – I think they’d be coming to you if you

if you got out of here, how do you get – ‘cause that door – I’m not sure what’s on the other side of that door. I think that door is going to the D G D D S G Listen, I don’t want to get shot. ‘Cause, you know who wants *** outside. to fucking die.

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here 24 hours a day. <Cough/clear-throat> S And I’m sure there’s some kind of a – I don’t know if they got
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Mmnh? Where are they gonna be coming from? I don’t know. Shit, it is a fucking police station, dude. There’s cops around

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were right here. But, I – I don’t see how you could get out of here. And,

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Transcript*Time*26:28* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*4:16*pm*

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panic buttons everywhere and they got cameras everywhere. And I don’t know who fucking – I can almost guarantee you there’s some kind of a dispatch person here who’s got – <Yawn> D S There’s got to be. -- All the jail shit, fucking parking lot cameras and looking at

the lobby cameras. This – this place here, they got some pretty good cars and shit, those are pretty high-tech shit they got. So, they got money. *** know – you know, my – I think your idea of the – of the

building is probably, by far, the best, because once you make the scene, like this what you’re talking about here -- once you make the scene, it’s of that, from in here, is pretty slim. Over there, they’re in – they’re in a G S G S G S *** five – five minutes or so. Five minutes? Yeah, they had me cuffed to the chair. Well, yeah, but, you got the fucking answer to that. *** And, you know what, they may not cuff you. next time, either. <Clear-throat> if you’re gonna go over there *** once ***or whatever, or if gotta go in forward direction until you are out of here. And the likelihood room by themselves. How much time would they give you by yourself?

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You know what? I’m just saying that – S

they do, they may not lock ‘em, ***. You know what, dude, about the locks. If they lock those cuffs ***, can you still ***-D I don’t, I don’t know. I was thinking about –I don’t know. I think he had – I think it takes something pretty stiff like metal, like a
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money in El Monte. They got some – you know, if you look at the cop

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Transcript*Time*26:29* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*4:17*pm*

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paper clip or – or maybe a staple or something. I think so. <Cough> S G D G D G D door. D G D S G D D D S G S G G they took me. circle like that. ***? I don’t know. But, uh – Have you ever been to the questioning rooms over there with Uhm-uh. Oh, the attorney rooms? Yeah.

How many are there? Do they have some here in the jail? Have you – have you been across the way? No. I – I had a – I had the interview room right here next Yeah, they took me down at the end of the hall here is where They took me across the way. And there’s a little – little *** Mmnh-mmnh. Yeah.

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and chairs – Yeah. -- And all that shit?
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Mmnh. *** on me. Mmnh. You think they have cameras? Probably. Does--Does it look like an interview room? It’s got a table

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your attorney?

Transcript*Time*26:30* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*4:18*pm*

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G S S

Yeah. It could be, yeah. <Clear-throat> But, again, you know, who’s gonna – who’s sitting there

looking at that while they’re in there interviewing, you know? I mean, it’s But, fucking they will find out how you got out of there. But, by that time, shit, you know. So – D S D S D G S G S A margarita. Yeah. Mmnh-mmnh.

Yeah, that’s what I meant to say “margarita.” I haven’t been to fucking Hussongs in years. <Unintelligible background noises>

It’s so easy, man, you just get out, step on the handle of the That part’s good. But, where do you go from there? You I get in a car. Well, yeah, rip somebody out of their car? Yeah. That’s a ***. What? Ripping someone out of a car. Oh, yeah, not a cop car ***. No, no. Just -- you know, somebody out on the street. Yeah. Yeah.
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door and hop up. gotta think about that.

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good idea. G D S D S D

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fuck, you know, you’re ordering a fucking martini down at Hussongs and

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probably got a camera somewhere. It’s probably taped or whatever.

Transcript*Time*26:31* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*4:19*pm*

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S

And you need a car that’s, you <Chuckle>

know, -- you don’t want a pink Volkswagon or nothing. S S S G S G S G S G S G S G D Grey you know Grey Nissan where there’s a million of em. <Yawn> <Sigh> wife and kids are. Ah, shit.

*** house ***. That’s *** my car. They don’t know about. Take the car that you *** him and dump it somewhere and let Mmnh-mmnh. Oh, yeah.

her pick you up in her car?

Yeah. Would she do that?

Yeah? Good girl. Keep that one. There’s no ***. *** here. *** Yeah. *** . What’s that?

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somewhere else? G D S Gotta do it from that room. How you gonna get over there, though? They’re gonna come and interview him. And they always

take him over there across the way.
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<Cough> So, how you’re gonna do it. Are you gonna do it from here or

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If you do that, they’re gonna go to your house where your

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Transcript*Time*26:33* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*4:21*pm*

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D Today? S G S D G D G me? Sh. S G S

When are they gonna ***? Dude, he’s been fucking yanked outta here. You were gone. *** What if they don’t do it? Hmn? What if they don’t yank you out anymore?

*** they fucking yanked him out three times. *** like two or three times.

Yeah, they said – trust me. Why would Downey come after They’re gonna come and get you again. May not be today. They may – they may come after him and – come talk to him

because he didn’t say anything. About ten , fifteen minutes trying to spend any time talking to ‘em. They just sat down and said their shit and D S Oh. he didn’t talk.

gonna work on him.

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that door’s open. ***.
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So, they brought him back. So, they’re gonna – they’re Yeah. Maybe they’ll take him back over there in that room – Yeah. Yeah. Get up there and look, dude. Look straight across. See,

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tomorrow or the next day. But, they’re gonna come talk to him again,

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Transcript*Time*26:34* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*4:22*pm*

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G S G S G S G S G S

Just look straight ahead. Is that the one with the big mirrors-- windows? Yeah. Is that the one ***? No. I go a little bit behind there. <Unintelligible background noises> Yeah, right under there. Yeah. Yeah. <Clear-throat> <Cough> Where that tower is?

Oh, okay. Yeah, *** – the street’s over that way, right?

<Unintelligible background noises heard> G S G D D G D G D G Yeah. That’ll take you right in there. You’d have to drop ***. Yeah, ***. <Cough> ***, left. Oh, yeah. Huh? To the left. Oh, I’m looking at – okay. See the left? Oh, I see – yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that’s – okay. Yeah. The door’s wide open. Yeah. That’s interesting.
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<Unintelligible background noises>

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Does that building go out to the street?

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<Unintelligible background noises>

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Transcript*Time*26:35* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*4:23*pm*

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S

Hey, is there—is there a gate <Unintelligible background noises>

down here? *** S G S ***. ***? Yeah. **. Yeah. Well, I think you’re right. Better to get out here than try

and get out at the County. The County is just too fucking ***. I mean, kinda blend in with somebody – G D G S *** we should talk a little quieter. You think so?

They’re standing right there, they can sneak up on you.

fucking keys around that belt though. S G S G D

You could hear them coming with those keys in the hallway. ***. Yeah.

<Clear-throat>

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warm as it was yesterday. I was dying yesterday. Yeah, it’s not quite as bad. But, you know what? <Clear-throat>
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*** you got your ***. Yeah. <Unintelligible background noises> <Cough/clear-throat> <Unintelligible background noises> This sandwich is pretty good, actually. I don’t think it’s as

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<Chuckle>

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that – If you get out of County, then, it’s a lot harder to do. You gotta

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Transcript*Time*26:38* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*4:26*pm*

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S D

The sun is still – got a couple Yeah. <Clear-throat/cough> <Unintelligible background noises>

more hours creeping on that wall, too.

today? <Cough/clear-throat> G D D S D S S that’s got – S S D S <No audible response> <Clear-throat>

They come at you today? Santa Monica? I wonder why? Everybody else did.

They probably already had their say in. <Sigh>

And that guy – they, uh – -- You’ll probably hear about it. There’s a dude Downtown <Clear-throat> They let him go accidentally***-Hmnh. He walked out. Took his, uh – his fucking shirt off. Mmnh-mmnh. Called a cab-cab picked him up and took him to his fucking

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house. The cab driver never fucking noticed that he was fucking, you know, inmate *** -440

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<Unintelligible background noises>

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Huh.

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The Santa Monica PD-uh police come back and talk to you

Transcript*Time*26:39* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*4:27*pm*

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

G S S ‘cause ***. G S S

*** breathing *** or something? Uh, there was uh*** – orange or some shit but– and, uh – <Cough> -- They’re – they’re gonna try to ***. But, they couldn’t, <Cough> Did the guy get away ***. <Cough>

But, they fucked up and released him. And he was a

Mexican or something named – it was Jose Rodriguez. And there was like – you know, probably like than 25 in the jail and they grabbed the <Clear-throat> <Sigh> S D S S S D D wrong one.

<Unintelligible background nosies> Down there, there’s so much movement. That’s where the Yeah. weakness is in County.

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That’s – that’s the biggest weakness down there. Not like here. They got you one-on-one. <Cough> S ***. It’s fucking – you’re just one of thousands. Follow the
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In the County. Uh, yeah, I know that. There’s so many people moving back and forth. Yep. You don’t know who’s who. Yeah, that’s – it’s hard to for them to keep track of everybody.

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That was at, uh, -- it was Downtown somewhere ***.

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Transcript*Time*26:41* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*4:29*pm*

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

white line. Follow the red line. Follow the blue line. Fuck, those could go for miles. The red line guy ends up on a blue line. You know, he said “Fuck it. I got lost.” And they just send him back to where he’s supposed to be. But, you get ***. G S G S G D S S G S Hmn. The key down there is to get trustee. Yeah, all these guys *** you’re crazy, dude. <Cough/clear-throat> want get trustee. crazy, dude.

But, no, seriously. But, if you know the trustee, if they trust What do you mean? Scope it out.

you, then, you know, have them do you some little recon and shit.

Here, I think I’ll make a trustee – <Chuckle> huh. I’ll tell you what, though. Those trustees – they’re supposed to be guys who don’t have

any – uhm, big charges and stuff. But, there was a dude that I knew

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who was down there. And he was a trustee. They had him on some little dope thing. That mother fucker done time for murder. But, that’s not what he got arrested for, he just got arrested for some stupid shit that was, you know, dumb shit. D S Yeah. And they gave him trustee based on this charge. And they –

they didn’t check his background to see who the fuck – what he had
442

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<Cough/clear-throat>

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Transcript*Time*26:42* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*4:30*pm*

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

been doing. They got that mother fucker pushing and scooting up and down the hallway with a mop who’s a straight-up fucking killer. I was like “Ssh.” D S D S ***. I mean, he – he didn’t do shit. But, he wouldn’t do ***. Yeah, he could, you know. But, he didn’t – he wasn’t looking He could’ve –

he’s a hard-looking dude. He’s a – he’s a full-on AB guy. Big old shamrock tattoo on his chest and shit. D S No, shit?

Yeah. He – he’s a fucking – he’s fucking – I’m surprised they <Clear-throat>

cops down there took one look at him and said “Hey, come here.” ‘Cause he was a trustee for about a week. And then, he was done. He <Cough> S was gone. I know he had some fun *** –

with the Arian tattoos. Those are gonna – you want to be friends with

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those guys. U S D S D S Hmnh. Getting hot over there, yet? Mmnh-mmnh. ***. ***. You know, I slept – I slept like shit last night. You’re gonna be the only guy coming out of the jail with a tan.
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But, he *** at county ***, you know. And you see those guys

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I don’t think he lasted very long. I think those fucking gang

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even put him down there.

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at no time or nothing. So, he wasn’t gonna fuck around with it. Yeah,

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Transcript*Time*26:44* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*4:32*pm*

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D S D S D S D S D S D S D S D S D S D U S D S D

Yeah. *** though. ***. I slept all right. I just kept waking up, and fucking coughing, Yeah. What do you do for a hobby, man? Hey stretch, okay. Hey stretch, what – what do you do for a hobby? Oh, I go fishing. Fishing, huh? Hmn. How about you? I like to lake fish. Huh. I do ***. That’s cool. <Cough/clear-throat> Hmn?

Saltwater fishing. Yeah. But, I don’t do that very often.

Go to movies and shit. <Unintelligible background noises> Yeah. Yeah. I like going to movies and shit. *** <Cough/clear-throat> My old lady, we always go back and forth. She likes all those Yeah. ***. Yeah, that’s typical all right. Hmnh. That’s my old lady, too. The feel-good movies.
444

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chick flicks. And I like all the fucking scary gory shit.

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Transcript*Time*26:46* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*4:34*pm*

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 D them soon. S S D S D S D

<Chuckle> That’s all right, though. Thank God for DVD’s, huh? Mmnh-mmnh. Dollar Tree Rentals. There you go. You just gotta wait forever for the new ***. Mmnh-mmnh. You know, the Bou- -- uh, what is it? The

Bourne, uh, movies? The Bourne Supremecy? Uh, have you seen S D S D S D S D S Yeah. Those are pretty bitching. Yeah. I like them. Yeah. The Matrix. A lot of action in them.

Yeah, that’s another good one. Those are pretty good, uh, special effects. Yeah. Yep, I like those movies. I’m looking forward to seeing Have you ever seen that ***? Yeah. *** That was one ***. But, uh, ***. <Unintelligible background noises/voices> Hmnh. ***. Hmnh? ***. *** the – that, uh, Wayside down there ***, uh, ***. <Clear-throat>

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D S

They used to show movies. The deputies would bring them in and plug them into each dorm’s got TV in it.
445

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those?

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Transcript*Time*26:47* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*4:35*pm*

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 pigs.

D S D S D S

Like living rooms? Yeah, they bring in – they – they plug it in up at the office. Yeah? And it plays on all the TVs. Oh, yeah. Okay. So, uh, the guys that, uh, worked, uh, the graveyard shift, *** <Clear-throat>

bringing different shit. D S fuck, dude. D S D S D S Yeah. That’s cool, man.

They’d bring us like slasher movies and all that shit. Like,

staring with a chainsaw.

Shit, trying to sleep here. tsk, <Sound effects> ***. Yep. That’s funny. A lot of good clean fun. They had –uh- they had this fucking deputy up there that

everybody be screaming.

mnh, he used to – he used to – hell he had a video on how to castrate

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pig farmer. Like he used to show that fucking thing all the time. Good God. <Laughter> D S Castrate the pig? Yeah.
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What? Yep. It was an instructional video. He was some kind of a

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*** Yeah, that’s fucking – yeah.

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You try to sleep and fucking they’re all there watching Jason

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Transcript*Time*26:48* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*4:36*pm*

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

D S D S D S D S D G S S D G D S S

Oh, yeah. Fucking pig – you got the trustee holding the pig shut and – Huh. Fucking makes me squirm just thinking about it. <Unintelligible background noises> They’d show that? Yeah, they’d show that video. Yeah. Nice. Did they turn the A/C on? Sounds like, huh? Yeah.

his mouth shut. And –

To – to whatever how many thousand inmates or whatever?

<Unintelligible background noises> <Chuckle>

Yeah, open up the door? While you were sleep, he came through in here with a mop, Oh, I didn’t even notice. Yeah didn’t say shit. Was it one of the jailers? I don’t know. I couldn’t tell. They don’t have trustees here, I No. Unless he’s in a jail. <Cough/clear-throat>
447

like a dust mop.

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guess.

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I wonder what were they doing?

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Yeah, It didn’t last long.

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Transcript*Time*26:50* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*4:38*pm*

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

S D D S D S D S D S D S oneliners. D D

They only have those at – at, uh, Oh, okay. Yeah. <Yawn> I like those James Bond movies, too. I love those fucking *** movies. Mm-hm. I like Clint Eastwood. Heartbreak Ridge. Yep. Yeah. Yeah.

Sheriff’s places.

Yeah. Yeah. He – he’s – he’s the king of cool, man.

All those fucking spaghetti westerns he did. The Dirty Harry movies and shit. There’s some great <Clear-throat> <Yawn>

Yeah. Yes, he did.

Man, I hope my old lady comes down and visits me again

tonight. Or she gets the-- I don’t know if she get the watch commander to let her in here , but uh—how she gets ***.

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D S D S

pissed off at her or be having ***.
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In this place, she might. That’s what I’m saying. <Clear-throat> It worked last night. That’s what I am saying – ***. I – I wouldn’t know whether -- I wouldn’t know whether to be

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Transcript*Time*26:51* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*4:39*pm*

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 her.

D D S D know. S D G D G D

Nah. <Laughter> Yeah. No, she’s a good girl. A good girl? Man, you’re ass is sitting in here because of Yeah. Well, I know, now that I know the end of this, you Yeah, now it’s okay. *** <Clear-throat> And she dropped charges. Still, man, for you to land up in jail? You do?

I know. But, you know what? I wanna go back her. So – I do, yeah. Yeah, I – I know I talk shit and – but, you know,

“Fuck you, I’m out of here?” G D G D No.

I don’t fight with women. Oh, ok. Yeah, I just – I did it. I mean, you know – you know, <Cough> D -- Jerry Springer show. And uh, I swear up and down

***. And fucking it’s a full-on—

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that I’m not fucking go back and next thing I fucking know. How do you not fight with fucking girls, dude? G D G I don’t – uh, I don’t waste my time, man. Waste your fucking time? I mean, look. They say things – A girl starts to fight; I walk out.
449

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You fucking leave?

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how many times you ever have fucking fight with a woman you don’t say,

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Transcript*Time*26:52* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*4:40*pm*

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 do.

D G D G D G D G D G D S D G D S S S D S

They do things different than we It doesn’t matter. I walk out. I don’t pay a – Like I said I don’t Yeah, but, doesn’t that piss them off? They don’t fucking hold it over your head or fucking talk shit? Later on, though. That’s true. Why do you *** going there? <Chuckle>

pay attention to women like that, man. They get pissed. But, let ‘em get pissed.

***. You walk. You take off. They – they can’t do nothing.

Yeah. Yeah. *** front lawn, right. You walk. You don’t say nothing. They just get mad at Yeah, that’s true. Well, you know, I never thought of that. Better man than Iam, I can’t do that shit *** – Yeah, we got to fucking fire right back, man. ***she starts talking shit *** and start get ***my back. <Clear-throat/cough> If I walked out out, *** my motherfucking truck would be on ***. Shit, *** be sitting there in the middle of the street--on fire.
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But, I always thought, you know, --

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fire.

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themselves. For what?

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Come back and *** chill.

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Fucking demons now got a cell phone.

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When you’re – when you’re gone, how can they?

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Transcript*Time*26:53* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*4:41*pm*

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D S G about. D G D G S D

Mmnh, funny shit. Mmnh. <Unintelligible background noises> You’ve got to be crazy, I would think, you could get away with

lying and trying to make me on another case that I don’t even know Well, you don’t have anything to worry about, man, ‘cause, But, why – I promise you, ***. ***. But, why did they come to me? ***

heard it from him, uh, if it’s like a big old effort, like they – said “Hey, let’s fuck with him,” – which I don’t think so – uh, or they got something on you. What, who knows? big fish to them. In fact, you probably are. But, I don’t know what their – what their reasoning behind ***. I don’t know. G It’s just like ***. And they link them all together and just try to <Cough> It’s gonna take more than that, dude. It’s gonna take more S I don’t know. That they –I mean, you know, maybe you’re a

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put it on one person. D

than that to – to convict you of those crimes. Okay. Look, you do one. The Santa Monica one, hey, you did it. But, everything else you’re gonna have to prove – each individual one. And that’s all. They have to. They could throw it on there. Take it down to the District Attorney’s
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they just did – one right after the other – either they all got together and

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-- *** – you know, I think you heard it from me, and I think you

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Transcript*Time*26:55* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*4:43*pm*

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Office and file it. But, that doesn’t mean you’re convicted. S U S G needed. <Unintelligible background noises> D G D G D G D D D G D G D G G they got a DNA. They got – they got to prove each and every count. It doesn’t Yeah. Maybe they’re doing that just because a confession is matter how many they throw in. Each – each one they have to prove. So, they might be wasting their time.

Maybe. Well, I can’t imagine why a confession is needed, if DNA just puts me there. It doesn’t mean I did it.

and who knows if they really did have an eyewitness or not. eyewitnesses.

Do you know what they’re talking about when you said “some Yeah, I used to talk to him all the time. So, he knows you? Mmnh-mmnh. Did he ever catch you looking in somebody’s window? Uhn-uhn. Why would they say that? All I know is *** with – with anyone. No one told *** that. ***. So, he’s not gonna ***. So, what’s the big deal? It isn’t.
452

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old man or something lived downstairs?”

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Man, they can make up anything and – and make a false

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Okay. It puts you there. But, if you have an eyewitness –

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Transcript*Time*26:56* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*4:44*pm*

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G D G D G D G

He’s saying ***. It doesn’t mean nothing. Nothing to be afraid of fucking seeing if someone’s home. Come on, dude. No. Yeah, It’s American. Yeah, you’re right. Nothing to worry about, man. this. There’s nothing wrong with that, like what they are saying. I’m telling you, by the end of this, the *** are gonna be like <Unintelligent background noises/voices>

D G D G picture. D G D S S G S G G G

Tssh. Why? What are you saying that for? How do you know? ‘Cause they told me. ***. <Cough/clear-throat>

They had my picture and they had a knife right near my Really?

Oh, my God.

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That’s fucked up. It looks like a machete. Did they say that that knife was – Mine. -- Yours? Yep. Mmnh-mmnh. They said they have physical evidence on it and that I used

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Transcript*Time*26:57* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*4:45*pm*

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gloves. You could use gloves. But, it doesn’t matter. We’ve got your physical evidence on the body. <Sigh> G D S U S They’re so full of shit. I’ll tell you what happens. *** gloves, you don’t get prints. Hmn Well, unless your hair fell out, huh?

--And when you get – if you have ‘em on for a long time, and

you sweat--the sweat drips out of the fucking glove. They may have that. So, that’s – that’s got DNA shit on it, too. But, if – S G D G D G D D S D G Even if you’ve never touched a knife? ***. If they have – Yeah.

Well, that I don’t know about the knife. But, if – if – You’re talking about that Downey case again, brother? You don’t have to worry about that case. I’m just saying. It’s fucking unreal how they could just come Are they gonna file charges? Did they tell you? Yeah. But, you know what? I’d – I’d wait and see. ***, bring it on. That *** read me my rights. Mmnh. Well, that doesn’t mean nothing. That doesn’t mean

to me and throw stuff on me.

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anything. They just – they just wanna – they just wanna – they just wanna be able to talk to you without having to worry about, you know,
454

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But, when you’re – when you sweat—

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Transcript*Time*26:58* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*4:46*pm*

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losing, confession or something in – in court. That’s all that is. That’s all. But, that doesn’t mean you’re guilty. S D S I know. How many times ***-You got—you gotta look at– and I’m here to tell you – there

jury is gonna think. <Cough/clear-throat> S

That’s the whole – that’s where it comes all down to is what

that jury is gonna think. Did they say – anybody tell you where they’re gonna –where they’re gonna try you? in any particular place? G S that? G D G D them two. G one in Santa Monica. they’re saying? Uhn-uhn. Is it gonna be Downtown? Is it gonna be here? Anything like They just told my attorney I had two other cases, after this So, are they – are they saying they’re all alike? Is that what Yeah.

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there’s a witness that seen me. That’s impossible, dude. Unless they set it up to have witnesses, it’s impossible. What’s the likelihood of someone seeing the same person D So, the’re saying– <Cough>
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come out the – the seven – uh, five different places? You just see him?

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Is that what the deal is? You know, they’re all related to

All they’re saying is they’re all stabbing deals. And *** and

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are a lot innocent people sitting in jail. You gotta worry about what that

Transcript*Time*26:59* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*4:47*pm*

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D G D G D S

Look – And especially if the person’s wearing a mask. Yeah? Uh-huh. It’s impossible, then. <Cough> I’m just saying if they did. If you wore a mask, it’s impossible. Unless you – unless it’s They may be able to say they saw somebody coming out with

taken off, you know. Uh—

– with a mask on – he might be able to describe the mask. You know, <Unintelligible background noises/voices> G D G uh, a photo line-up. *** didn’t – didn’t –

You know, they’re saying they picked out of a photo line-up –

They never had me in the center. They always had me in the bottom left or right corner. D G D What’s that mean? Does it have to be in the center? Do you understand who it – it was – it was on the news. It Mmnh-mmnh. No, I hadn’t heard. But, -Oh, yeah. That’s the first – when you put down a photo line-

was faulty –photo line-ups. And cops are being prosecuted for that.

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up, where’s the first place you look? In the corners. Left to right, right to left. D G D I go left to right. There you go. So, if I’m in the bottom left, the first person Yeah, I see what you’re saying. Yeah.
456

you’re gonna see is me and say “Oh, yeah.”

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But, did you notice how they had me in the photo line-up?

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Transcript*Time*27:00* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*4:48*pm*

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<Cough/clear-throat> <Unintelligible background noises/voices> And they put me up against being all tired and fucked up. To make you stand out? <Sigh> we’re looking at. Do you know this person? And he’s wanted for this D G D But, before, they – they’d say “Hey, this is the person that

Yeah. They whisper in their ear and they got their mind set. They’re crooked, man.

That’s fucked up.

Well, you’re biggest problem is – right now is, you know, if

wouldn’t have these problems right now. D G D G D G D D *** that work? ***. Well, how is it? They had not seen me, --

The person doesn’t know me.

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nothing.

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that weren’t similar to the other ones, so similar that they think, “Huh, it must be the same guy.” G That’s what I’m saying.
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I said what’s the deal with Santa Monica. ***. My blood there – that’s it nothing else. No one – there’s So, that person doesn’t know your face? <Cough/clear-throat> *** blood there that put you there, you got problems. So, if

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I was not seen.

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you hadn’t – if you hadn’t been seen at the, uh, Santa Monica one, you

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many homicides.”

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Transcript*Time*27:02* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*4:50*pm*

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D G D S news ***. D G D S D

Not – when you think about it That’s what they did. That’s what they did. That’s why they Maybe there’s a copycat.

being – put yourself in the detective’s shoes and – are all after me, man. That’d be — that generally doesn’t happen unless it’s on the Yeah, that’s true. That’s true. What? But –

Copycat stuff doesn’t happen unless it’s all over the news. The – the, uh – I’ll tell you what, though. If – if he were

got a problem. S G D Yeah.

Well, I know it was on the Internet, right? You were talking

said the cops took out your fucking computer or something? G J

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G S J D G J

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Yeah, they burned my computer. And they ***. <Unintelligible background noises> ***. Thank you. Thank you. You’re welcome. It’ll be hot. Be careful. Okay. Sounds good. Thank you very much. Mmnh-mmnh.
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about pulling up on the – after the – the El Monte one. And that’s – you

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Do they have this shit on the news?

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wearing a mask, and the people are saying that he looked like you, you

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Transcript*Time*27:03* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*4:51*pm*

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G S D S U D G D G D G D D G D S

Oh, thanks bro. <Unintelligible background noises> Bread – Bread? Man, who wants to give me a bread? ***. It’s hot. Well, then, lemme tell ya. Ha, I just don’t get it, dude. Okay. So <Unintelligible background noises/voices>

They just pulled -You know what it is? They’re just pulling up Yeah, I know. I know. If they – if they can’t match them, how I don’t know.

the nature of all of them. the fuck they’re gonna ID you?

*** – like you said, *** mask or something. <Unintelligible background noises> *** just ***? Yeah. Now, you got a problem.

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I can do *** D Mmnh-mmnh. The crazy thing is --*** what the fuck? This mother fucker did (Unintelligible background noises heard). G

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all they said, said – *** looking me in the eye not even getting upset, huh. D That’s a mess. So, they’re even thinking you’re a fucking
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Maybe you had his eyebrows. You had his eyebrows *** shit.

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Transcript*Time*27:05* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*4:53*pm*

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psycho mother fucker. G D G D G D G D G ***? D G D G S G D D G D G ***.
460

All they said is “I know that your mind is ruined.” ***. Man, but, you – but, you get that fucking stare, that thousand I’d just look em in the eyes and look down, it was like – <No audible response> That was ***. <Unintelligible background noises> *** they may not know. Mmnh?

mile stare, and they’re – they don’t know what the fuck you’re thinking. Yeah, bring it on. Right?

Probably the – they had a problem with their eye *** guilty, Yeah, that’s true. Well, --

Yeah, you’d be looking at it. And then, you know. I just looked at it. And I was like “Fuck, yeah, I know these Were they pictures of ‘em after they got killed? Or were the Just pictures. Mmnh. I looked at it for a few seconds. It was like -So what? -- Well, what are you getting at? Really? Two years ago, they showed me the pictures of the body all

pictures of ‘em before they got killed?

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people. “ ***

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Or when they see the picture of the person staring, like --

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Transcript*Time*27:06* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*4:54*pm*

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D G

Mmnh. The one from El Monte A few different ones. I couldn’t have looked at ‘em, man. I <Sigh>

that popped up? almost threw up. <Unintelligible background noises> G D G D S could I be living a normal life like it never happened? I don’t know. It’s impossible. Yeah –You know, you’re right.

And that’s another thing. If they claim I did all this, how

***. You look at that – that dude – what’s that guy that the, uh

a fucking double life like a mother fucker. S D G

It doesn’t happen very much. But, -Hey, you could be a fucking psychopath, man. You know? And, by the way, just tell us what happened. Maybe you’re <Laughter> And we’ll make a deal with you. Mmnh. *** spent two days in jail with a fucking crazy mother fucker. I’m not crazy, dude. No. Do I look crazy to you? No.
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just some crazy psychopath.

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G D S G D G D

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Who knows?

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Wow.

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– that BTK – bind – bind, torture and kill guy that was a minister. He led

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Transcript*Time*27:08* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*4:56*pm*

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 face.

G D S G S D G D G D G D G G D G D D G

I don’t know. I’m ***. No. ***. ***. Would a crazy mother fucker be scared? <Sigh> Yeah, I don’t think you’re crazy. <Unintelligible backgrond noises> You know – Mmnh? Mmnh-mmnh. No.

-- I mean, that’s the same *** person in, uh, the first case--- I couldn’t identify him, ‘cause he had a hoodie over his A hoodie over his face? <No audible response> (No audible response.) How did that happen? The same thing *** couldn’t identify. Oh. Like a hoodie-type hood, something like that? Uh-huh. Yeah. Well, is that – you’re talking about Santa Monica, right? Mmnh-mmnh. Yeah, that’s right-right there, man. Well, the problem is you didn’t even know – fucking know that No, but, all these other cases, what makes you think that
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Unintelligible background noises heard).

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bitch. And –

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Transcript*Time*27:09* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*4:57*pm*

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they’re, supposedly think – that I did it? And they’re trying to ***. D Maybe – maybe they didn’t all know. Maybe they all didn’t know that, uh, -- they – they were talking about the same people – the same person, though. Maybe that’s why it took so long. <Chuckle> D G D G D G Yeah. I think they’re fishing. <Unintelligible background noise> Mmnh-mmnh. G They were probably trying to ***. That’s impossible.***

All I’m saying is I can’t tell you if I was there or not. I don’t know. I don’t know if I did a job. I have a business. Oh, I see what you’re saying. I thought you meant – yeah. “Well, anyways, we wanted to hear your side, so we know

that you’re not the one that did it.” And then, after, when I don’t give witness saying that they saw you do it.” D G S

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occurred. G D S

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of the house. I’ll tell you what, if it was me, and I didn’t do it, I’d get on the They asked you take a lie detector?
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fucking lie detector, dude. I swear to God.

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That saw you do it? Or they saw me coming out of the house after the homicide Yeah. They tell you that if you don’t tell ‘em shit, huh? They all say the same thing -- the witness saw me coming out

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them what they want, “Anyways, we got physical evidence. And we got a

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Yeah, I got you. Yeah. Mmnh-mmnh.

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You guys want me to remember every single thing.

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Transcript*Time*27:11* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*4:59*pm*

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

D fucker. S G S D S D D S That’s why. D S D S D G D D D G D G

Go out and prove it, mother Did they ask you to take a lie detector? Uhn-uhn. No? How come? Well, I don’t know-<Clear-throat> --Because that’s the end of their case. They won’t.

Oh, you know what? Lie detector is not, uh – not admissible. Mmnh. True.

The courts only, uh – they ***.

I’d be demanding to take one, if I didn’t do it, though. Fuck it. You know, ***. Don’t be pinning shit on me. ***. They asked me if I robbed the house. I didn’t do it. Well –

And, uhm, I failed a lie detector test. They even asked me –

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-- “Did you kill your mom?” I said “No.” And I failed it. You did? Yeah. Oh, you actually have taken it before? Mmnh-mmnh. “Did you kill your mom?” They ask you stuff like that. My mom died of natural causes.
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<Unintelligible background noises>

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Transcript*Time*27:12* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*5:00*pm*

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 here. G D G D D G D G D S D S D G

<Cough/clear-throat> Mmnh. Well, -But, it showed that you – it showed that you killed your mom? Fuck.

Is that what they said? Wow. Did they arrest you for that, too? “Did you kill your ex-girlfriend? Did you shoot her?” I failed it. <Cough> Um. That’s fucked up.

Uh, they had all my ***-- physical evidence, and everything, What? Really?

***, shooting her, supposedly.

And, there, they got the gun.

They found me guilty. They have the gun. Mmnh-mmnh. Where? ***. Oh. Oh. Oh, I see what you’re saying. So, his – his – her It was my girlfriend. Yeah? And he was – he was obsessed with her and shot her. Oh. Oh, I see what you’re saying.
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(Coughing/clearing throat).

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G D

boyfriend or husband or something actually did the killing? G D G D

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They found you guilty?

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Wow. If they got that, we wouldn’t be talking to you right

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And here they *** murder.

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Transcript*Time*27:13* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*5:01*pm*

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G D G D G S D G D D G D G D S G S D

Over – over a drug deal. Mmnh. But, the cops were going around saying I’m the one that shot Mmnh, damn. I know. I know. *** fucking ***. So, how did they know it was him? Oh. Okay. <Cough/clear-throat> Mmnh-mmnh. Mmnh. No? What?

– that killed her. Look at how filthy my socks are.

Because they traced the gun back to all the four murders.

All I’m saying they have no physical evidence. It’ll all come out ***. It’ll all come out in the long run what they’ve got. Yeah. Hope so. This is the thing. They think, because they got my DNA, I’m Yeah. DNA just places me there. Yeah, it does. It doesn’t tell you what time I’ve been there. Yeah, that’s true.
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gonna be freaked.

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And he was – he was down south in Mexico?

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(Clear throat).

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Transcript*Time*27:15* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*5:03*pm*

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G D

It doesn’t have a time of what Yeah, that’s true. Yep. You got a really– you got a good <Cough/clear-throat>

time I was there. reason for being there sometime. You’re good. S D S D S D S I think they can tell – well, at least with blood DNA – Mmnh-mmnh. -- If – like a time frame, only like in months. Oh.

Not – not time, specific, because blood breaks down after a Yeah.

period of time to where they can’t even get DNA out of it.

not necessarily gonna show who said that, you know, I don’t know how check the DNA out for it. So, they can say that that blood was there. G *** they have – it’s the hairs that they took. They took over <Unintelligible background noises> S G D 75 hairs of mine.

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do that if they weren’t planting them in all different places? Well, I’ll tell you what. Was this in Chicago? <Cough> G D Years ago. Okay. So, this is – this is – okay. Then, if they took 75 hairs

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– let’s pretend it’s 75 – and they put those into evidence, you have to account for every single one of those hairs.
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They took ‘em from you? Yeah. And cut ‘em and did everything. Now, why would they

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many – eight weeks or whatever – it’ll break down where they can’t even

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So, if they get something – some blood DNA – uhm, that’s

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Transcript*Time*27:16* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*5:04*pm*

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 you?

G S G

Well, they didn’t. They didn’t do Oh, they didn’t? No, they said “The detectives want to take more hair.” And

it. They didn’t care. They didn’t put a count on it.

they were pulling my hair for a half hour. There’s no witnesses there. blood stuff from me, too. D D G D G D G D G D D G D G Wow. <Sniff>

And why you? Of all people in this fucking world, why you? ‘Cause it’s from the Chicago case. That’s what’s started it. Oh, the one with uh– yeah, okay. Your friend’s fucking -And I wouldn’t cooperate. So, they said “Fuck it.” And *** Oh. Well, you said her brother or something fucking blamed Yeah. <Chuckle>

hassle me. I know nothing.

where it happened, supposedly, and he didn’t hear his sister get killed?

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have heard it. He didn’t hear a thing, he said. Well – ***
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He was laying there right in front of the door on the couch – God. How did she get killed? Uh, it was like a *** stabbing or something. Well, if he stabbed her – if somebody stabbed you, you’d

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He blamed everybody else?

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That’s not on camera. They do whatever they want. And they took my

Transcript*Time*27:17* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*5:05*pm*

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D

-- that’s fucked up. Mmnh. Wait a

minute. Is that the one that your like blood DNA underneath her fingernails or something? G D G D G D G D G D G D G D That’s what they said. They did not, though. Don’t you think Yeah, you’re right. <Cough/clear-throat> and the scars? I don’t know. This is the thing ***, but-Yeah. it’s crazy that all of that blood DNA and there’s no scratches on me?

Yeah. Even if there were, it’s easy to explain away. Install – heating and air conditioning.

were like “Wait. Don’t you do heating and A/C?” They what? They were telling me “Don’t – didn’t you do heating and A/C?” Yeah, right. What’s that all about? <No audible response> <Unintelligible background noises> I don’t know whether that’s important. *** fucking trying to – Well, it’s important because I could have went and ***. Oh. I used to live in Bellflower I told ‘em. Mmnh. <Cough/clear-throat>
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Actually, I did a few jobs in Downey. I don’t remember the streets.

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You know what? They were getting to the point, where they

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No scars, even *** business ***. Where are the scratches

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Transcript*Time*27:19* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*5:07*pm*

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D G D G D G D G D G D G D G D G

Isn’t that right next door to – Yeah. -- Yeah, Bellflower, Bell, or something. Man, my flyers went all over the place. Yeah. May be. They got a flyer. Maybe it was in the dead person’s house. Mmnh-mmnh. Yeah. ***. That’s why. That’s the physical evidence.

It said – it said my company – and the person died. It’s just a – that’s their physical evidence.

***This – that’s all this is. <Sigh> <Cough/clear-throat> <Unintelligible background noises/voices>

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Ahh.

Go ahead. You should eat them now. *** maybe you *** it later. <Cough/clear-throat> Yeah. You’re right. *** quick. You gonna eat the rest? Done with it? Yeah, thanks, brother. <Unintelligible background noises> Ugh, fucking detectives.
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Yeah. That’s not – that’s not gonna convict you.

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Transcript*Time*27:20* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*5:08*pm*

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G G

My family needs to get a loan off Team of fucking lawyers. <Blow-nose> <Cough/clear-throat>

their house, man, get the team of –crooked cops.

D G D G D

They have to – do they get along with you?

percent behind me. You got any family out here? Chicago.

You know, they still can do it from back there. Ahh—You <Cough/clear-throat>

G you know – D G D G D G D

I should have threatened the cop and said “You know what?

Because you’re lying, and, uh, it’s against the law for you to be lying, as Yeah. Yeah.

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number and – and all your information?” Yeah. You know, the cop that got to me, investigated everything. Phew--I don’t know. <Clear-throat>
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Are they allowed to lie to people like that?

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-- There’s so much crooked stuff going on, --- I’m gonna report you to Internal Affairs. What’s your badge

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<Unintelligible background noises>

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wonder how come they haven’t done that yet. Fuck—Whew –

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Yeah, my family loves me. They said they’re a hundred

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They have to, dude.

Transcript*Time*27:23* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*5:11*pm*

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D D S

I don’t know. <Cough/clear-throat> I don’t know. ***. they do. <LAPSE TIME: no intelligible conversation; Transcript Time <Sigh> <Unintelligible background noises> <Cough/clear-throat> <Cough/clear-throat> 27:23-27:29>

<Unintelligible background noises/voices> G D G I’m fucking sweating like crazy. Yeah, it’s a little warm in here. <Clear-throat>

you know, you think I should talk to my family, though? <Cough> G D G D G G D You think I should call him ***? Even if it’s past 5:00? probably won’t be there. He’s You think the line will shut off? Or no? You’re paying him. My family knows that they were hassling me for years. <Sniff> So, they just find some physical evidence, and they charge Well, I don’t think so. I think they need other things, because,

probably a 9:00 to 5:00 guy, man.

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you. That’s all they need, huh? uh, if you – like you say – you got a good alibi, and you got a – you did
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*** should call my attorney or call him tomorrow with it. But,

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Transcript*Time*27:31* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*5:19*pm*

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some work in somebody’s house, then, your – your DNA’s gonna be in there, but when – time of the murder a week before? G D G D G D G D I don’t know. The police took all of my records. What do you mean? What records? Oh. -- From that, they took all my invoices. Oh. What’s that gonna prove? Yeah. 27:32-27:56> When – then they swiped my car, *** my girlfriend’s –

It would prove that I did work on the person’s house. <LAPSE TIME: no intelligible conversation; Transcript Time (Unintelligible background noises heard.) <Snore> <Dial tone>

<Unintelligible background noises> U U U For English, dial 1. Para Espanol – <Dial tone> Dial the phone number now. <Beep> The number you’ve called is not allowed. <Dial tone> <Beep> <Dial tone> U For English, dial 1. <Beep>
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<Clear-throat/cough>

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Transcript*Time*27:58* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*5:46*pm*

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 S S U U U G U U U

<Dial tone> Dial the phone number now. <Beep> Please say your name after the beep. <Beep> One moment please. <Beep> <Unintelligent background noises> quote, dial 7. <Beep> <Ring> Hello? Michael, Anthony’s client.

Thank you for using Inmate Communications. For a rate

<Unintelligible background noises/voices> This is a collect call from – (Unintelligible background noises heard.) <Sigh> It’s hot in here. ***. Hmnh. That wall is probably smoking hot, huh? <Unintelligible background noises> Yeah, it’s warm. <Cough/clear-throat> <Unintelligible background noises> <Sigh> G S G *** fucking freaking out. I don’t believe this shit, man. Mmnh? I don’t believe all this shit, man. Coming from all different
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Transcript*Time*28:02* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*5:50*pm*

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places. This is ridiculous. I don’t know how they could be allowed to do that. <Cough/clear-throat> S I don’t know. But, you definitely got it coming out of the <LAPSE TIME: no intelligible conversation; Transcript Time 28:02-28:06> <Unintelligible background noises/voices> <Cough/clear-throat> G S D G D G D G D S those detectives and make ‘em look like fools. Yeah. You should. woodwork. Mnh-mnh.

You know what? This makes me wonder if I were to tell all

I run a business. You got all my stuff. Pull all that out. That’ll Yeah. Yeah.

So, I think you guys need to look somewhere else. What are you clowning me? I should tell them “Are you Exactly. What type of idiot do you think I am? Yep. Well – I should have just told them straight on, “Are you clowning Yeah, maybe they are. I think you guys are clowning, trying to freaking scare me.
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clowning me?”

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G D G D G

me?”

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state that I did a job in their house. It doesn’t mean I’m a killer.

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Transcript*Time*28:06* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*5:54*pm*

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 there. D G D them? G D noises> G D G D G S G S G S G

<Unintelligible background -- Saying they got physical evidence. Yeah, ha. What kind of an idiot do you think I am? Physical evidence Yeah. -- When I’m doing a job. Yep. Why would he be pissed? That I’m talking to ‘em. Oh.

I should’ve. My attorney would be pissed, though.

But, you know what? That’s gonna all come down to it, man.

Right. Yeah, as long as you had a fucking job there. Yeah. So – and you could do that for every single one of What?

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with the receipts or records of every single – every single address. G D G D Listen, man. Why else would my DNA be there? I don’t know. They could say what they want, ‘cause they’re detectives. Yeah. <Cough/clear-throat>
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I mean, as long as you can – as long as you can come up

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I’m gonna say directly to my attorney, “This is bogus.”

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Like – like there’s– there’s no reason that I shouldn’t have not been

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could be anything – a hair dropping in a house –

Transcript*Time*28:08* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*5:56*pm*

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D G D G

Yeah. Physical evidence means anything. Yeah. True. <Clear-throat> We drop skin cells all day long. Bullshit. You don’t – you

peeling in order to drop a cell – a skin cell. They try that , you know what D G D G D G D G D G D Yeah. And I’m very familiar with all that stuff. Oh, really?

So, if they tell you -- if they tell you something, you’ll be Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

-- as a typical person. But, to me, -<Chuckle>

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they’re not the medical examiner. <Clear-throat> D G Nope. <Cough/clear-throat> Just because they find a skin cell in the house does not mean you’re a murderer.
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-- I’ve gotta confess,” –

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scared and like “Oh, shit, --

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they try to do? They tried to talk like medical examiners.

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don’t drop skin cells. What type of idiot do – I am? You have to be

Transcript*Time*28:08* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*5:56*pm*

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D

Yeah, that’s a great – uh, that’s a

great, uh, tact, though. Think about that great story. Every single one of the places – <Yawn> <Unintelligible background noises> Make ‘em prove it. G D G D G D G D G that did it. D G D And just because the person died, -Yeah. -- Does not mean I did it. True. Sure. That’s true. D -- Has your DNA. You must’ve had a reason for being there.

You state to the fucking jury, “I have a business and I go in Yeah. Yeah. True.

They could die, at any time. I don’t – with *** the customers

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trying to link together. You’re right. That’s one cap – one percent. It doesn’t mean that I know the person. <Unintelligible background noises> D G That’s true. And it gives you a reason for being there. Wouldn’t they have to have – don’t – besides DNA, I’m
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Mmnh, good point.

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that I have, ten of ‘em could get murdered. It doesn’t mean I’m the one

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“And how am I supposed to think that someone’s gonna die?”

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people’s houses. Am I supposed to be worried?”

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Transcript*Time*28:10* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*5:58*pm*

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saying I was there. Okay. So – D G crime? D G I would think so. Yeah. Make them prove it. ‘Cause, if they’ve got a DNA case, it’s because the person’s Yeah. -- Don’t they need someone seeing me actually doing the

saying they weren’t there. And they go “Okay, well, there’s DNA there. D G been there. <Chuckle> G Yeah.

This – the funny thing is they’re stating that they know I’ve

So, how in the hell do they think they’re gonna scare me int – I’m not reason to be there. D G D Good point.

physical evidence is there. G D

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just try to talk in medical terms to scare me. Yeah. Yeah. *** was at that house a week before. <Unintelligible background noises heard> G D G D Think about it, man. If you’re a juror – Yeah. -- You got a business guy that’s going into other people’s – Yeah.
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Yeah. And there’s just no time stamp on it. Yeah. It’s not – not that it’s not supposed to be there. They

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So, they just contradicted themselves. They know my

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saying I wasn’t there. If they know I was there -- and I had to have a

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“You’ve been there many times at these different places.”

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So, we know he did it.”

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Transcript*Time*28:12* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*6:00*pm*

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G D G D G D G D G D G random – D G

-- House all day long. Okay. Yeah. You got the guy that’s on the stand. Right. Or that they’re, I guess, in the – at the prosecutor’s thing. Yep. What? Am I supposed to be feared – <Clear-throat> Yeah. Yeah.

-- That’s something’s gonna happen to these people? Uhm, I’m supposed to know that someone’s after ‘em – at Nah.

-- At any time, random within years? Someone could come in

and kill that person. And I’m supposed to know about that and fear, <Unintelligible background voices> G D D a second. His DNA’s all over the place.

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talking about. That’s – that’s the kind of stuff— <Cough> D -- That, uh, your attorney probably never would have thought

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What are you gonna think, as a juror? This guy’s right? Wait Yeah. But, he’s supposed to know, oh, that someone’s gonna die? Exactly, man. Yeah. I – I agree. I mean, that’s what I’m

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‘cause I’m a businessman and I’m ***?

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And he’s saying “Yes, I’ve been in all these houses.”

Transcript*Time*28:13* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*6:01*pm*

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G D G D

What? Are you not supposed to Yeah. If somebody might be killed, you might get blamed for Now, it’s different if I didn’t own a business. <Sniff> <Sigh>

go work in someone’s house? it? Yeah. You’re right, man. That’s it. Legitimate business.

G D G D G D G G D G D D S S G

If your girl calls me to go do a job, -Yeah. Ha. Yeah. Yeah.

<Unintelligible background noises> I’m gonna be – I’m gonna be on the stand fucking being Yeah. You know what? You’ve gotta wonder about that. -- I was supposed to know -Yeah. -- That something’s gonna happen to everyone? Okay. Who else’s DNA would be in virtually every person’s Yeah, I was just gonna say. Just – <Chuckle> -- Playing devil’s advocate here. What they would say is, you know, the gas company guys are in there.
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house? Mail man?

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convicted of a crime, because –

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And she gets stabbed one certain way,

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-- Somehow, you hired a hitman to kill her.

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Transcript*Time*28:14* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*6:02*pm*

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D S D S

Yeah. The mail man’s there. The guy that put the rugs in was there. Yeah. <Yawn> -- Zeroed in on you. They’re gonna say none of their shit was

You know, whoever cleaned the furniture is there. But, they –

– had, you know – they didn’t have any of their, you know, hair or D S Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

So, that’s – you need to think about that, ‘cause they’re

allowed to say “There’s all kinds of people there, in and out of houses. But, your name keeps coming up.” So, you’ve gotta have a – they’re G out, dude. S G D G D D G D G D G Well, of course, their DNA is there. They’re just singling me Well, that could be. <Clear-throat> Yeah, Yeah, because they have a – they have one that they Uh-huh. -- And it’s easy for them. Yeah. Yeah. But, it’s easy for you to say ***. Think about it, man. Yeah. Maybe the mail man – maybe the fricking carpenter – Yeah.
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Because of the case I’m in now. Do you see it?

know you were at. Then, they can hang *** –

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gonna have something to say to that.

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whatever is there.

ns

Transcript*Time*28:15* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*6:03*pm*

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

G D G D S DNA? G S G G S G G G U

-- Who’s DNA wasn’t in the Yeah. --Is in the database. That’s true. Yeah, if you’re not in the databank, your name Do you know -- do they have any un- -- uh – unrecognized ***. <Cough>

database. The first thing they pull up – bing. This guy is one that, uh,

DNA from somebody they don’t know who it is? Did anybody It won’t come up. <Sigh> Mnh. <Cough>

mention that?

You know what I’m saying? They’re not trying to complicate. -- The one that comes up the most frequently *** for them. <Cough/clear-throat> Even if I pass out a flyer. Think about it. I’m in the system Yeah. <Sigh> <Yawn>

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already. I go do jobs. Or my flyers get passed out.

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I’m in the system. Were you – what got you in the system? The thing back
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That’s what they’re doing. They’re zeroing-in on me, ‘cause

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All they care about is the – bing.

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doesn’t pop up.

Transcript*Time*28:17* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*6:05*pm*

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

there in Illinois? G S D G D G case ***. D G D G D G D G D right? Yeah. <Sniff> Even ***. Yeah. Mmnh-mmnh. Mmnh. <Sigh> Yeah, but, that didn’t catch up with you. You didn’t go to prison for that. What?

<Unintelligible background noises> Yeah. Yeah.

-- If all these have happened at nighttime – -- How do they have an eyewitness? I don’t – yeah, good question. Most people are sleeping, Well, how do you see a person in the dark? Yeah. Are you sure they all happened at night? That’s what they said, yeah. That’s good to know. I’m just being framed because of my shit being in the system. Yeah. <Sigh>
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G D D G D G

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I’m just curious, because ***, when they talk about it –

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But, they have my DNA in the system. So, I made *** other

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Transcript*Time*28:19* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*6:07*pm*

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G D G D D

So, they can’t go back to the They can’t go back and add your blood to the knife? Mmnh-mmnh. No, because— I would think, that it’s already – since it’s already in custody, <Clear-throat>

evidence room – add my blood to the knife or whatever?

because blood is kind of— <Cough/clear-throat> D

-- Easy to destroy, you know, you’d think that, uh, they – the

first thing they would’ve done is, uh, get a DNA test done, so, it just down pretty quick. That’s my – that’s why my attorney told me not to S D S D S Well, that depends on what it is. Blood – Yeah. Yeah. -- Is like that. But, if you get – -- If you get a – like a chunk of skin you peel off, fuck, that Yeah. -- Years. No, that’s true. No, I’m talking about blood. Yeah. And any of the liquids – blood, saliva – Yeah. But, he’s talking about his blood on that knife. Yeah. If they see blood on a knife – Yeah.
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could sit there for –

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D S S D S D D

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worry about DNA too much, unless it’s brand new fresh.

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doesn’t sit around, ‘cause, DNA, you know, -- you know, DNA, uh, breaks

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and it’s already, uh, an evidence piece, it’s kind of controlled. And,

ns

Transcript*Time*28:21* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*6:09*pm*

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S

-- On any – any weapons like

that, most of the time, they check it real close. They put one of those lights and stuff. And then, they, uh – they send it to the lab. G S U G D So, then, I don’t have to worry? If there wasn’t any knife – blood on the knife, they’re not Mmnh.

fingerprint on the knife? to put DNA on a – on – <Cough/clear-throat> D G D G D G D

No, man. Everything is time-stamped. And they’re not going

know. Just like some kind of a, you know, check-in, check-out – Yeah.

In that case, then, I’m not worried.

the Downey case –

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knife, what’s to worry about? It’s the ones you did do, you gotta worry about. So, that’s what you got to – that’s what I’m saying. You gotta ***. G D G D G Which I didn’t do. So, I’m not worried. Well, then, you shouldn’t worry, at all. I’m not worried, now – now, that I know that. Fuck. Yeah. I’m not worried about any of ‘em.
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Uh-huh. -- And if you didn’t do, don’t worry about it. If that ain’t your

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Yeah, I wouldn’t worry about it. Remember we talked about

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Okay. Well, that makes – that makes me feel better.

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-- The cops, uh, they have to send it to like a crime lab, you

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They can’t just lie, later on, and say that they found a

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gonna go add it.

Transcript*Time*28:22* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*6:10*pm*

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D

Yeah, I – I mean, you really, <Unintelligible background noises>

honestly, dude, you know— D G D G D D S G D S G S G S G D G D G D The stuff that anybody did – *** – you know, righteously, did, I’m a businessman. I’ve been in and out of houses. Yeah. Yep. That’s a good point. Simple answer. <Sigh> <Cough/clear-throat> Uhn-uhn. I don’t know. What was that? Mmnh.

you know, don’t worry about it.

When is my woman gonna come in and visit me? It’s crazy. Will they let your attorneys call here, do you guys know?

Unless they were in lock-down. How much is your attorney? Mine? 5 grand - retainer. Fuck. Mine’s gonna be like a half a million retainer, now. How you gonna afford that, man? ***. <Unintelligible background noises> I guess if your people jump in there, man. I hope my sister fucking jumps in, ‘cause she makes about 15 She does what?
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million a month.

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Of course, my DNA’s gonna be there. What else you got?

ns

Transcript*Time*28:24* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*6:12*pm*

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G D G D G D G D G D S D S G D G D G D D G D

Fifteen million. She owns the Dang, dude. How come you’re not working for her? Well, she offered me five million a year to work out there. Really? What happened? Yeah.

largest construction company in Chicago.

I don’t know why you’re not working for her, man. Ssh, working in Chicago? You’re crazy? Yeah. But, I know if it was me, I’d – Yeah. <Laughter>

Five million bucks, you could buy a jacket.

Yeah, these socks are dirty. <Cough> Yeah. Yeah, I just got *** bottom, so. My feet are itching like crazy. Are they? It’s cause they’re so dry, man. I’ve been in the same clothes. Really? They haven’t give me no change. Oh. No deodorant, nothing. I’m washing my armpits with fucking Yeah.
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I’ve been in the same clothes for the last three weeks. G

toilet paper, dude.

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Buy fucking socks with fucking heaters in ‘em.

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I don’t think she’ll jump in, though, dude. If she did, I’d be ***.

ns

Transcript*Time*28:25* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*6:13*pm*

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 D G D G D G D

<Yawn> Should I call ACLU? What would you tell them? That they’re just throwing shit at me and making cases and I Yeah, you could. You could. Although, I think, uh, -- I think it <Cough/clear-throat> what I mean? <No audible response>

have nothing to do with them. And – would be better if you have a lot of – well—

-- It would be nice to know what you have first. You know

They may say certain things. I – I don’t know if the ACLU

‘cause the cops had lied to you. They’d certainly get into it if they planted G D G D Who would?

The ACLU. Yeah, they’d do it. But – Uhm, just they police the police, <Cough/clear-throat> <Unintelligent background noises> -- You know. The ACLU is not a -- a police agencies. You But, Internal Affairs, I

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know what I mean? They can’t put you in jail.

mean, enforce – make sure that laws are being adhered to. Again, I don’t know if they’d respond because you – you know, they lied – because you’re being lied to. But, they might – they’d probaby respond if – if they knew that they were planting evidence. Although, we’re talking about, what? Five different police
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What’s the whole point of Internal Affairs?

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evidence on you.

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would get in on a lie. In other words, I don’t know if they’d respond just

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Transcript*Time*28:27* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*6:15*pm*

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agencies, everybody planting evidence? I mean – G D G D G D G D G witnesses. G D G D No, I’m not saying planting evidence, man. They’re saying Yeah. Sure. Sure. But, what would you tell the ACLU or Internal They’re charging me and ruining my life – false charging. ***. False accusations. Yeah. that my – they have physical evidence on me. I’m not saying no, they don’t. I – I could easily explain.

-- They don’t have any witnesses that I was in there. And That’s – that’s what your attorney is paid for. <Cough> *** defaming my character. Well, your attorneys have to find out, uh, what they lied

they’re lying. They’re lying to people.

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about. Then, you can decide what to do. It’s kind of hard to do right here from a jail cell. <Sniff> <Unintelligible background noises> <Clear-throat> D probation.
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Well, I guess, I’m gonna have to sign some papers, man, for

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<Unintellligent background noises>

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Lying to people. Lying to witnesses so they could get

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Affairs? I mean, you know what I mean? Uh--

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Transcript*Time*28:29* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*6:17*pm*

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 G D D G D G D

<Cough/clear-throat> ***. That sucks. I wonder why we’re here so long, though. Yeah, I don’t know. Maybe we’ll catch a bus tomorrow. <Blow-nose> Yeah, my, uh – my PO told me to-

‘Cause I’m done.

case – my first case ***? <Clear-throat>

Uh, I don’t know. I don’t know when they – when that

happens. If – if – the first one, uh, I guess, they could hold – that thing ‘Cause I had a double – I had a double case when, uh -- they arraigned them to combine the two cases.

<Cough/clear-throat>

***my attorney stating, “He’s a business guy and he’s in their house. Is he supposed to be afraid of something happening in the house?” D Yeah, I mean, that – I mean, uh, see, that’s what – I think

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that’s the point of the whole justice system, you know, is, ***, you could get accused. But, if you’ve got a good – you – if you have – if you have, uh, an excuse, uh, for why you’re there, then, that’s why you go to a jury and tell the jury. And your story may – may, uh, exonerate you. That’s exactly what the justice system’s for. G You think a jury convict – they convict people that say they were there?
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What would the judge say? They have all the things that –

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me when they got the other case together. And – uh- and it allowed

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would hold you over – hold you in custody. And they could arraign you.

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Do I have to go to an arraignment? Or do I wait til my next

ns

Transcript*Time*28:31* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*6:19*pm*

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 hell.

D S D house, no.

Well, not if you’re – Depends on the circumstances. Not just for that. If it was just because your, uh, skin DNA was everybody’s <Chuckle>

S D around. G D G D G D G D G D D

I think blood’s harder to explain than the skin being there.

They don’t have my blood anywhere. What’s that? Oh. They don’t have my blood anywhere.

In the first case, possibly. But, any other case, no way in Yeah. Yeah.

That’s a hundred percent accurate. Definite. You know, the cops aren’t that bright. They’ve been doing it Yeah. Nah. “We drop DNA all over the place. We drop skin cells all the – Mmnh. <Clear-throat> Well, that could work against them, huh?
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for a long time.

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G G S D

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every other minute.”

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But, did you hear what they told me?

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Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And a strong wind could blow, uh, skin

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No way.

Transcript*Time*28:32* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*6:20*pm*

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G

You – you – no. You were in the

house. And you can’t tell us why you were in the house, so, we’re gonna fricking charge you. D S G Well, they’re not gonna have any case, then. Yeah. And then, I’m – I’m -- and then, my attorney’s gonna say

“Regardless, he’s not saying he wasn’t in the house. Of course, he D G D G D G D G D D Yeah. “He did a job there.”

Yeah. Yeah, that’s a lot easier to explain. You know, the No, man, I’m thinking – I’m thinking real though – I didn’t think Mmnh-mmnh.

cops, uh, when they’re having to spread your DNA all over the place. one – I thought, because there’s been a lot of corrupt things, uh – -- Dealing with evidence box and doing stuff. Uh-huh. Well, I – I know what you mean. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. You’ve heard about that? There’s been a lot of crap done. <Cough> Yeah. But, uh, what you’re saying – what you’re saying is

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like you got every reason. You got every reason to be in people’s houses. G That one detective said “You’ve been there many times. And

I still know – you know, I still don’t think you’re getting it. I have witnesses. I – I will prove that you’re the one that did it.” D G Which one said that? Small – the Hollywood one.
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dropped skin cells and hair and other things.”

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Transcript*Time*28:33* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*6:21*pm*

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D G D G D G D G D G D G D G D

Oh. “I know you – I know you’ve been in the house many times. Phew. Yeah. I hope for his sake he does. Well, how the fuck does he have a case, then? He even told me straight up, “You’ve been in and out of the But no time-stamps, like you said. <Unintelligible background noises> I don’t know.

There’s proof for that.”

And what does he want me to say? He was probably waiting Yeah. Like psychology. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. And hang myself.

for me to say “Hell, no, I don’t know her. I wasn’t there.”

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of this one case I’m in – Yeah. -- I’m the one that did it? Yeah. Why didn’t they arrest me before? Yeah.
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<Water flow> <Cough/clear-throat> And, like I told them before, I’m now, all of a sudden, because

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It’s possible. I was *** there.

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house many times.”

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Transcript*Time*28:34* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*6:22*pm*

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G

He had all the same old evidence.

He had nothing – he has nothing else. He just has these cases. That’s – that’s what he means by “Oh, we know for sure because of the case in Santa Monica and because all these other people have tried to come in.” That’s what he means. night. And it’s a house that’s all closed up and locked. How the fuck did D G S G S G S D S I don’t know. They didn’t. They’re lying. And the Hollywood one, it happened at like 7:00 or 8:00 that anyone see someone coming from the house?

He was at the place where there’s no lights and stuff? <Unintelligible background noises> Mmnh-mmnh. Man, he couldn’t see.

He said it’s all closed up for – for *** .

front door. I’ve been to the house many times. Yeah. <Cough/clear-throat> I don’t see how that happens unless they had some kind of Special forces. They’re just up to no good, man, in all their cases. You know Really? They make $386 a day for each, uh, inmate. Oh, I see what you’re saying. I thought you meant the – the We’re paying for their ***. ***?
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special night vision goggles or something. That’s not gonna happen.

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G D G D G

they make money on us –the more people they put in jail?

investigators were doing something.

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Yeah, you have to go up the driveway. And then, go to the

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Transcript*Time*28:35* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*6:23*pm*

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D G D G S D G D G D S D

Yeah. Yeah, I know that. Uh, the detectives get bonuses when they file a case. And, Is that right? Of course, dude. 40 to 50 grand? Forty – yeah. I ‘m in the wrong fucking business. <Unintelligible background noises> Yeah. Sneaky bastards. Why do you think they’re so crooked? How much they get?

they solve a case like 40 or 50 grand.

Well, look, I think you’ve got a – I think you have a great

– something like that. G house. D J S

<Clear-throat/cough>

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Yeah.

Baker? Thank you, man. <Close-cell door> <Staley exits cell> <Transcript Time 28:36> ***. <Unintelligible background noises> To the left. Face towards the wall. What’s it about?
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I’m a businessman. And I get paid to work in someone’s

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explanation, man. That’s exactly what I thought you might come up with

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Transcript*Time*28:37* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*6:25*pm*

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D

I don’t know. I was wondering

about that. Maybe he’s got a visitor. Uh, does your – does your, uh, lady know you’re here? G D G D G D visit you? G D G D G that ***. D G D G D D No. Why not? They won’t let her. Who won’t let her? No, she doesn’t have a phone. How about your, uh, -- I thought – I thought your, uh, attorney No, I called ***. I don’t know, man.

Well, she’s gotta be worried sick. She come down to

She said they came – she came or she called, and they said Huh, well, this is the perfect place here, though. I can’t get a hold of her. Yeah. You don’t think your attorney could, huh? Uhn-uhn. Do you, uh – does your lady have fucking, uh, -I can’t. I have a restraining order. If I were to call her? You know what, dude? I don’t know. I – I – it’ll – it’ll give me

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could you collect call her? G

– I – I promise you, it’ll fuck me up. Listen. She’d come. You know the worst part is? She’d come visit me. G But, listen, if I collect call, you’re not contacting her. If I talk to
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Oh, back ***? How come you didn’t call your lady?

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was gonna call?

Transcript*Time*28:38* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*6:26*pm*

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her, saying I’m an inmate with – with your boyfriend, -<Sigh> D G D G D G D I don’t want her to fuck up my shit, dude. You’re not allowed to contact her? I can’t. The only thing I can do is talk to her at a visit – like So, there’s a restraining order? There’s a restrain – restraining order.

she can come over here and visit.

Oh, dude, then, you can’t contact her anymore. No. She can visit me and talk about shit, about, you know,

family and – and bills and things like that. But, she’s gonna, uh, G D G D G D D G G D D G I don’t think my wife will see me. ‘Cause –

What the fuck, man? I thought she – I thought she was loyal Yeah. But, but still – She believes in you, right? Yeah. We’ve argued a lot over my kids and the mom. Yeah, but, this doesn’t have anything to do with that. Uhn-uhn. <Sigh> She doesn’t believe you’re a cold-blooded killer. <Unintelligent background noises> Ahh. *** physical evidence.
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and nice – she was your lady and all that?

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Why?

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hopefully, come tonight.

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Transcript*Time*28:40* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*6:28*pm*

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D G D G D G D G D G D G D G

Well, if it’s flaky skin, like you say, It’s not my blood. Exactly. <Unintelligent background noises/voices> Yeah. Umn I am not gonna go crazy over this.

you’ve got nothing to worry about.

Well, if you didn’t do it, then, you shouldn’t be scared. All this shit they’re saying is to make me give a confession. Maybe. Yeah, but, you’re not gonna confess to something No. But, what I’m saying is, they don’t want to take the Mmnh-mmnh.

you didn’t do. risk of going to the jury –

-- *** wholes in the case. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So, you think they’ll drop charges if you No, they’re not gonna drop the charges. But, they’ll put it –

I’m telling you, man, if you were a detective, wouldn’t you want to hear from the person themselves?

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Then, you have a fucking attorney – defense attorney who slams ‘em.
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Oh, yeah. I mean, I would think so. If you don’t – Like TV, Mmnh-mmnh. Where they sit there “Oh, okay. Okay.” That doesn’t happen. If you don’t have a confession, you don’t have to talk to ‘em.

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don’t confess?

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I am not gonna be scared because there is nothing I can do.

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Transcript*Time*28:41* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*5:29*pm*

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“Yeah, you have all this physical evidence. Sure. That’s great.” D G D G D G D G D G G G D No confession. Now – now, how the hell are you gonna prove that he was Yeah, you’re right.

there at the same time? Prove it right now. Prove it that he was there exactly at the same time, even Yeah. Time-stamp.

Another one -- all of them may have been murdered by a leftI don’t know.

hander or a right-hander. Could they tell the difference? Well, here’s what I’m thinking. I don’t know if they could tell. <Sigh> Here’s what I’m thinking--

If I came at you like this – come over here, man. ‘Cause I’m not stupid. ***? <Chuckle> No. If this is – <Flush-toilet> <Unintelligible background noises> Yeah. If I come at you like this. It’s gonna be a downward cut. It’s the same thing. Yeah. You’re right. It’s the same slice, right or left.
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D G D G D

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<Clear-throat>

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though he’s a business guy who’s been in their house several times.

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