An Interview with Frater E.S.

Originally Conducted during October, 2013
Note: The original interviewer initials and their questions have been changed in order to differentiate from a postponed article for a service that will not be named. It is presented here for associates and all those curious about the subjects mentioned.


From your point of view, what is the DKMU, how did it get started, what was the significance of the Chelsea Ritual and how did you become involved?

ES: First, as to what the DKMU is: a loose collective of DIY magicians with, as Frater Isla put it, "some heavy nods to Chaos Magic and Discordianism", as a bare minimum of explanation. Looking back, I just sort of fell into it by happenstance. I've never been one for hierarchical groups or what they call circle-jerking today - everyone being on the same wavelength by some reinforced dogma. That's not what this is. By the averse, I've always known the function and purpose of groups in general, which is any collective under some sort of header or even vague modus operandi, however amorphous and allowing it might be. When you have a lot of people with some itch, some calling, even if they don't know what it really means, those are the types that end up making some waves - some real noticeable ripples on the pond. Surely, _______ is one of these as well. There is nothing much which subjugates the individual in these types of formations (unless an individual idealizes what he construes as a dogma therein, but this is his own problem and lust for such a thing), nothing demanding people to all think or act a certain way. I equate collectives like that to open-mic night at a poetry house. Poetry is obviously the goal in one form or another, but what type of poetry, and what style, that's a surprise. The DKMU is like that, with a more occult and mystery-oriented slant to it. That's just where our backgrounds fall at, and most of us want to keep exploring those types of mysteries by any means necessary, with whatever is novel and might really work. And a lot of things tend to work with the right style of thinking, which

is likely completely different from my own style of nonordinary (magickal) thinking, depending who you are. So, I sort of stumbled through the DKMU portal, and it wasn't even the DKMU back then - it was the Marauder Underground (the "MU" in DKMU.) This happened to come at the perfect time, even though I was no more but a lurker and lone wolf, because for two or three years prior I was really doubting if there was anything to all of this magick business, you know? Some piece of the puzzle was still eluding me, which means to say, some crucial aspect of my own personal style of magickal thinking was not yet in place - at least not how I intuitively felt I needed it to be. Luckily, the initiation I required was catalyzed in 2004 at the same time the Linking Sigil was developed. I attended a four months artists retreat and met a person whom I would entangle with. Two years later, we were sharing an apartment in Brooklyn. As for this time, I used to be fairly outspoken about it, suffice to say that it entailed connection and employment at a dominatrix dungeon in Manhattan. Anything you could imagine happening here probably fits the real bill. The clients were quite a trip, and this gave me a good scientific vantage point into the depraved and psychosomatic nature of mankind, this constant lust for the internal world to be made external. Lawyers, Wall Street types, upstanding businessmen, you name it - everybody had some sort of fantasy. Some of them were happily (or so they said) married, though couldn't share this one thing with their spouses or families, so took to the underworld to fulfill the wish. It was the girls job to help them create it - so, they were like witches or magicians in a sense; the doorway to another world. Though I hadn't performed the acts, I had

unlimited access to this information, so I took notes. These notes probably formed the spine of how I do magick, today. It is very psychological in nature. There were plenty of other times in Brooklyn I could bring up that helped fit the missing puzzle piece in place, including my first instances of undeniable success with ritual - some occurring the very next day, in fact, and in the face of overwhelming odds. But the real apex was the Chelsea Working. This was in 2007, after I had briefly joined the Freemasons and met a group of people who hopped across various esoteric orders in search of new information, new connections, etc. They called themselves the UCA: the Underground Citizens Association. Theirs was a physical and situationist approach, and to this day I haven't found any trace of them online (unless the title they presented was a jest!) Aside from some astounding conversations and being given a certain set of equally astounding rituals, this was largely the extent of my time with them. So, during 2007, the original Marauder Underground forum had already been hacked by a Turkish group, and the project appeared to be at an end except for a handful of persistent practitioners speckled here and there. It was also around this period that I met one Frater Sheosyrath on a thread at the now defunct, which was the number one online gathering place for occultists at that time. We struck up a relationship on a thread which dealt with a general dissatisfaction regarding the present state of the Chaos current, a dissatisfaction which I think still lingers bitter on the tongue to this day. I'm not sure how it happened, and as with all things which appear as fate in retrospect, the variables lined up in such a way that

seemed almost mathematical in their precision. Sheosyrath began writing "Occultus Conturbo", we titled the project to invigorate the Chaos current "Domus Kaotica" (the House of Khaos), gathered a few Marauders (those of the previous Marauder Underground), used the Linking Sigil to create a totemic sigil called "663" or "Doombringer" which would reinvigorate the current by death & rebirth, then went about selecting or positioning those who chose to participate into a reverse triangle formation that stretched across the United States. I would perform my part atop the Chelsea hotel in Manhattan, Sheosyrath in Texas, Damien Horizonstar in Maryland and Karma Mitchell in California. This shape was seen as the primordial waters, and the lightning bolt, whatever it was, which struck life into lifeless fluid. It was to be a fairly large undertaking, as magick goes. A brief but not 100% conclusive account of this ritual is still published. It may be found in either "Occultus Conturbo" or "The Assault on Reality: A Field Manual for the Strange Psyche", or elsewhere as a singular document. The result seemed to be answered by the creation (or re-invigoration, as we intended) of a current called 156/663. As I later found out, the 156 current was previously cracked open by one Joel Biroco in the 80s, whose work formed an alternative take on the Chaos current to that promulgated by the IOT. Due to the IOT flourishing in the USA with the publication of Pete Carroll's books, while Biroco's KAOS fell into silence, this aspect of chaos was little known in the States until the sudden return of Biroco and the publication of KAOS 14 in 2002. This work goes into great detail about the KAOS-BABALON 156 current, described earlier in the late 80s, and which is an

undermining of Thelema, subsuming it into chaos. It has become clear that during the heyday of the current in the UK in the 80s Biroco's KAOS was a formative influence and held a far more radical stance than that put across by the IOT, of which it was a critic. I continue to speak with Joel occasionally for the unique viewpoints he offers, which I am entirely grateful for. ( So, the Chelsea was a working of "whatever may come", at its heart. Any semblance of cognitive structure was abandoned in the act of exposing the mind to a variety of psychedelic agents which served the purpose of amorphous gateway. July 17th of 2007 marked the signature of the current - whatever might well up from the subconscious and beyond, and for how ever many years or cycles, this would be our exploration. The collective winds and waters would decide on the face of whatever catalyst or territory revealed itself, even if it meant "going beyond Khaos", as it were. Indeed, the individual might have his particular structure, and any number of them - to declare unto the many that "structure is prohibited" or that anything is prohibited, such is the way of dogma. What works for one or even a majority does not make up the manifesto, which is a thing written in invisible ink, and with letters that shift in the light. The Sutra of the Poison Buddha is a good analogy, here. With this re-lighting of the fire completed, some marauders began to send out the word that the project had evolved. This is where the combined name "DKMU" comes from, which is now recognized as the formal title of the experimentation. With this completed also, I myself became entangled within the newborn current to an at first alarming degree. It had become very successful, for one, as

far as grassroots formations like this go. Sooner or later, a great portion of the occult community had come to know of the Linking Sigil, or DKMU, or both, in one way or another. This was still mostly as a fringe curiosity, and this was blown up by some to mean "they are Khaos criminals, drug users, hackers, black magicians, graffiti artists", in other words, "stay away from them." This only served, as it always does, to cause ever more fascination. However still learning and still evolving myself, after some time a variety of members had begun to treat me as the voice of the current, which, to my mind, was an insult to the purpose of it. To accept a singular voice is to deny your own unique voice, to accept a singular leader-figure is to deny your own ability to be said leader. To want a leader, in any sense, is to deny the flow which doesn't respond to these figures in the first place. I began to detect this at around the period just before I moved to New Jersey with someone I would lock hearts with for a time. To make it brief: this New Jersey house would later serve as a real-time gathering place for DKMU associates across the country, and some who flew in from other countries as well, though as a note here, some meetings were held in different states. A large number of heightened rituals and occult experiences were held in all of these locations, some of which defy any rational explanation. (I would call this the phenomenon of Magickal Relativity, as it appears that when others with related expectations interact over a period of time, the shared reality by result may take upon itself an ever increasing malleability, relative to what is allowed by the collection of minds. This might be labelled merely subjective, if it were not for some contamination seen to bleed into the experiences of

disconnected persons in the immediate environment, and in a wholly objective sense!) From 2007-2010, the DKMU would continue to plunge the depths of whatever subject was blown into its immediate viewpoint. Work with the Linking Sigil (a massive, global spell in essence) continued with exponential growth, the delving of archetypes given modern masks meant to connect varieties of the related semiotic form (godforms) was explored and continues, novel pathworking, eclectic combination, theories on consciousness and magick, examinations of Spare's "Neither-Neither", media magick, digital and cyber magick, even post-Chaos magic... though a sort of degradation or collapse was had in 2010-2011, and for whatever reason. As of today, we might call it the birth-pangs of whatever would come next. If the DKMU were a deck of cards which attempted to order itself, that period was like the whole deck being flung in the air during a hurricane. Yet, the experiment continues. Although I will not be with it forever, and my time is drawing near, it is one of the most freeing, ecstatic and even, dare I say, jovial experiments on the long road of the esoteric progression that I have yet been involved in. The face of the future has yet to be pulled, though I am ever grateful to have had those strange winds push me into it, for whatever I'm worth to it (or what it has been worth to me), for whatever I might have assisted it with (for whatever it might have assisted me with.) I once yearned for that missing puzzle piece, I wouldn't have imagined it would be snapped into place with a changeling shape which might become anything I wanted it to be. As it stands, that is entirely the secret I hadn't grasped in the early years. The

DKMU might have given it, though it is wholly mine to use as I see fit. Magick was not to be found in dusty books, and much less the ones with shinier covers. These may present some fleeting idea or taunt, or tease, and if that's what you need, all the power to you. Crowley, Spare, Carroll, Sherwin, Hine, Mckenna, Anton Wilson, Bey, Biroco, Nameless, and so on, get what I'm saying? Eventually, it must be lived and enacted, if you feel that call. Maybe you don't, but if it puts you there anyway, then that's what you needed from it. One does not merely read the story, one becomes the story. If the story no longer serves you, always feel free to kill off your own character. 2) What are your thoughts on magick, and how do you generally approach it? ES: I've always been one of those types of practitioners who don’t put much space between "media / the medium" and "magick." Whether it’s a sigil created, a seal drawn, information read and applied or information written to cause a change in perspective (in myself or others), a painting, a graphic, a video, a song, graffiti on a wall, a cognitive connection between seemingly unrelated forms, your "identity", spoken word, even emotions or physical actions; anger, annoyance, elation, exercise, yoga, meditation, whatever. All of these things, states, thoughts, practices or actions, they're all mediums and conduits for intent (or Will, if you prefer.) Some of them work better than others, depending on the nature of the intent. Aside from that, there aren't many rules. Simple guidelines, perhaps, and even those can be discarded in favor of whatever the muse might be gravitating towards at any given moment.

So, I tend to treat these endeavors as a mixed-media canvas. This approach has worked in chasing off multiple forms of restriction and bias, although restriction utilized in an artistic sense might result in unexpected feats of creation, all the same. So long as that restriction is being used as an artistic tool in much the same way a band will limit their options in order to fine-tune a unique sound for the next album, and not something assumed or debilitating, yeah, even restriction can be a helpful tool whenever that certain color is wanted. If reality (and consciousness) can be equated to your canvas, anything imaginable can be equated to the colors you have available. The largest, wildest palette any artist could want is always ever at our immediate disposal, formally called "the fucking Universe", or "God" by some, particularly if they have a dirty mouth. It's just information, information that can be used, abused, linked together, bent and warped into different shapes. That information becomes a conduit for intent when the shape you're after reflects that intent. Organic matter can take a lot of different forms, but if someone cannot speak, say they're missing a tongue or larynx for example; the only device that will do the job in any adequate sense will be something that takes the form of and functions as a tongue or larynx. Magick is a lot like that, but so is everything else. Whether that particular shape is created by the laws of physics, natural evolution, artistry or engineering, it's all the same game - form and function; function and form. Literal formlessness might have been the trend before the creation of the Universe, but it's an aesthetic that's largely gone out of style. Hell, even black holes have a peculiar form and function about them. They appear to play a role in galaxy formation, as an example. Whatever shapes the information assumes it will essentially

be composed of the same "stuff" it always was - just another variation in the existential gallery. Now, as conscious human beings, we have a terrific opportunity at hand to peek behind the veil and get to know that information face to face, in whatever form it takes. The scientific method is a great way of doing this, psychology is another, philosophy, religion, shamanism, mysticism and magick are all others still. All of these disciplinary locations deal cards with the types of information they are best equipped to deal cards with, some are better tools for different sorts of information and the interpretations of that information, and they all overlap to some degree at the foundation. The experiences and interpretations derived from the language and style used by one may not make much sense in the language and style used by another. Some deal with external data as it exists unto itself, for example, and others deal with the qualia the subjective experience an individual might receive, or his personal relationship to a set of data. No matter the area of specialization, we're dealing with all of these experiential layers at the same time in one way or another, and dependent on our viewpoints, or what Robert Anton Wilson called "reality tunnels." Given that, there's no need to insulate ourselves into any singular one. It is completely possible in this day and age to become multidisciplinary and multilingual when dealing with a variety of ways to approach, interact and "have fun" with existence. We might, as contemporary citizens entertain a scope which seeks to include the many instead of singling out a one. Indeed, there is no pressing need but for selfsatisfaction to triumph any one viewpoint above another, unless that viewpoint is being actively used to cheat,

beguile, swindle or otherwise cause some measurable, objective harm to an individual or collective. Aside from that, which is certainly a problem on a case by case basis, we don't need a Belief Police running around. The best way to actively learn is to arrive at a conclusion on your own and by your own efforts, not have it mandated by a majority, whether that's the Catholic Church, the Golden Dawn or even the Illuminates of Thanateros! Keep on your toes, stay sharp. Be open minded, but also be the perpetual skeptic. Try and think in less black and white terms, because you'll need those shades of grey to make sense of a complex existence. A Latin maxim goes, "de gustibus non disputandum", or, "In matters of taste, there can be no disputes". I would however make an addition, "Unless it tastes like cyanide where you were promised chocolate pudding!" I think that's a good note to end on. Travel often. Fra. E.S.


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