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21-08-2013 19:24 #21 yodajunkie yodajunkie is offline Private yodajunkie's Avatar Hearts of Iron IIIEuropa Universalis IV Join Date

Jan 2010 Location Virginia Posts 10 I seem to always have trouble with Crimea. It doesn't take many more shi ps and a decent admiral to keep the Ottoman navy in port and the straits blockad ed, but I find that unless I've really built up the navy (sometimes they don't g ive you that time) that Ottomans + Crimea is just too much. If you can, save Ath ens until you want to attack the Turks when they're all in Asia. That way, when you attack Athens instead of the Turks, the Ottomans will protect them and becom e war leader, but the war is without that additional Crimean navy. Reply With Quote Reply With Quote 21-08-2013 20:57 #22 lebigmac lebigmac is offline First Lieutenant EU3 CompleteEuropa Universalis IV: Pre-order Join Date Apr 2012 Posts 227 Seems to be pure damn luck more than anything else. I v tried the strats here and it takes ALOT of savescumming to get past the first 5 years. I v had several games where Ottomans attack less than a year after the g ame starts. I v had games where the ottomans invest in navy. 5 extra ships by the ti me I v made my navy and their admiral is FAR better than mine. I v had crimea come and attack at the same time as the ottoman fleet, 2 on 1. I v had venice attack while I m in my war with ottomans. I v tried funding rebels in a 10% province (knights) for 2 years with fu ll bar and nothing. I v even had ottoman religious rebels spawn in 2 out of the 3 provinces I was sieging in the same month, with 5% and a 12 man stack each, wiping out 2 o ut of my 3 two-man siegers. Stab hits. so yeah, luck. It really robs the fun of finally "managing" when you kno w its less than a 1 in 10 chance of working. I dont like winning based purely on luck. WaaaaaaaAAAaaay too much is based on luck in this game. I get that you ha ve to rely on it a bit as byz, but its just one more drop in the sea of things t hat depend on luck in eu4. The monarch being the big one.....

luck luck luck. Reply With Quote Reply With Quote 21-08-2013 20:59 #23 Lakedaimon Lakedaimon is offline Major Lakedaimon's Avatar Crusader Kings IIEU3 CompleteHearts of Iron IIIRome GoldVictoria 2 Victoria II: A House Divided500k clubEuropa Universalis IV: Pre-order Join Date Mar 2012 Posts 581 Don't fund rebels with a full bar, fund them with the minimum ammount of gold possibly, 0.01 They get the full 3% extra revolt risk, the extra money just makes them stronger which they don't need against the knights. Reply With Quote Reply With Quote 21-08-2013 21:03 #24 lebigmac lebigmac is offline First Lieutenant EU3 CompleteEuropa Universalis IV: Pre-order Join Date Apr 2012 Posts 227 thanks for the advice. Will bare in mind in future. still pure luck, and a lot of it, to pull any of these strats off though . playing "normal, historical lucky nations, no bonusses to anyone", btw. Reply With Quote Reply With Quote 21-08-2013 21:04 #25 Lakedaimon Lakedaimon is offline Major Lakedaimon's Avatar Crusader Kings IIEU3 CompleteHearts of Iron IIIRome GoldVictoria 2 Victoria II: A House Divided500k clubEuropa Universalis IV: Pre-order Join Date Mar 2012 Posts 581 Well luckily the luck all depends on the first few years, meaning restar ts are very viable. Unlike for example the american natives :P Reply With Quote Reply With Quote 21-08-2013 21:11 #26 lebigmac lebigmac is offline

First Lieutenant EU3 CompleteEuropa Universalis IV: Pre-order Join Date Apr 2012 Posts 227 incidently and somewhat related to this.... its really annoying that ships can make a shattered retreat out of a blo ckaded port. As in, you blockade it, force them out with a land army by sieging it, and they try to fight the blockade, get defeated and get "LOL IMMUNE" and ge t to run away. that. is. bullshit. Reply With Quote Reply With Quote 21-08-2013 21:15 #27 kraussda kraussda is offline Lt. General Crusader Kings II Join Date Mar 2012 Posts 1,404 Quote Originally Posted by lebigmac View Post Seems to be pure damn luck more than anything else. I v tried the strats here and it takes ALOT of savescumming to get past the first 5 years. I v had several games where Ottomans attack less than a year after the g ame starts. I v had games where the ottomans invest in navy. 5 extra ships by the ti me I v made my navy and their admiral is FAR better than mine. I v had crimea come and attack at the same time as the ottoman fleet, 2 on 1. I v had venice attack while I m in my war with ottomans. I v tried funding rebels in a 10% province (knights) for 2 years with fu ll bar and nothing. I v even had ottoman religious rebels spawn in 2 out of the 3 provinces I was sieging in the same month, with 5% and a 12 man stack each, wiping out 2 o ut of my 3 two-man siegers. Stab hits. so yeah, luck. It really robs the fun of finally "managing" when you kno w its less than a 1 in 10 chance of working. I dont like winning based purely on luck. WaaaaaaaAAAaaay too much is based on luck in this game. I get that you ha ve to rely on it a bit as byz, but its just one more drop in the sea of things t hat depend on luck in eu4. The monarch being the big one..... luck luck luck. I would argue that dealing with bad luck is part of the game. Getting a comet stab hit and getting a 0/0/0 ruler are both luck based, but one is a game design problem and the other is not. A stab hit is something the player has tool

s to work around and deal with. Your ruler's stats are the source of literally a ll those tools AND you have no way to influence it. The problem isn't that monar ch stats are random, or that there is randomness in the game in general. My typical reactions to these different forms of randomness: Get a stab hit: "Well, how do I want to deal with this?" Get a bad monarch: "Looks like I'm waiting for monarch points to build f or much of the next century." I think that really highlights the difference between randomness working and not working. Saying the game is waaaaaaaay too luck dependent is ignoring t he ways that, in most cases, the player is given tools to use finite resources t o deal with that randomness. Reply With Quote Reply With Quote 21-08-2013 21:23 #28 Phi Phi is offline Colonel Phi's Avatar Cities in MotionCrusader Kings IIEU3 CompleteFor the MotherlandHearts of Iro n III Majesty 2March of the EaglesEuropa Universalis: RomeSemper FiSengoku Victoria 2Victoria II: A House DividedVictoria II: Heart of DarknessRome: Va e Victis500k club Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order Join Date Jul 2008 Posts 1,033 Quote Originally Posted by SirRobin View Post First Idea? Religious. You're going to have a lot of converting to do so you'll need every bonus you can get for it. I would advise against this. In my current Byzantium game Judea, Mecca, Rome, and Defender of the Faith give me +5 missionaries. Decisions and the Byzan tine ideas increase my missionary chance by +6% (or something similar). Even mor e with an appropriate adviser. Byzantine traditions already give me an incredibl e tolerance towards Orthodox. In my opinion taking the religious tree is a waste of idea trees (besides the fact that you really need your Admin points for othe r things in the early game). Former Minister of Demographics and Migration of the Victoria 2 Realism and Rebalance Project Reply With Quote Reply With Quote 21-08-2013 21:26 #29 Lord Finnish Lord Finnish is online now Jackals! Vultures! Lord Finnish's Avatar Arsenal of DemocracyCrusader Kings IIDarkest HourEuropa Universalis 3Divine Wind For the MotherlandHearts of Iron IIIHeir to the ThroneSemper FiVictoria 2 Victoria II: A House DividedVictoria II: Heart of DarknessMount & Blade: War band500k clubEuropa Universalis IV: Pre-order Join Date Sep 2006 Location European Union

Posts 9,381 Blog Entries 2 Don't forget the sweet CB you get on all non-Orthodox with Religion idea s. That alone made it worth it IMO. Mod: Byzantium - Imperial Restoration for Darkest Hour Empire of Pohjola for Crusader Kings II AAR: The Nazi Time Machine - A Strange Story of the First Reich (CK2) Dead du e to save game corruption. Will restart eventually. Reply With Quote Reply With Quote 21-08-2013 21:27 #30 lebigmac lebigmac is offline First Lieutenant EU3 CompleteEuropa Universalis IV: Pre-order Join Date Apr 2012 Posts 227 kraussda sure.... use your resources to deal with a combination of the things I d escribed. You make sound like its manageable. Often it is not. Getting dowed by venice in the middle of a war with the ottomans, 4 years into the game, and them showing up with a 30-navy and invading corfu with a 7 stack, isnt survivable, p eriod, and there is no way to lower the chance of it happening. if it happens yer ded. plenty of other combos can happen as byz that end you right at the start . Reply With Quote Reply With Quote 21-08-2013 22:03 #31 Phi Phi is offline Colonel Phi's Avatar Cities in MotionCrusader Kings IIEU3 CompleteFor the MotherlandHearts of Iro n III Majesty 2March of the EaglesEuropa Universalis: RomeSemper FiSengoku Victoria 2Victoria II: A House DividedVictoria II: Heart of DarknessRome: Va e Victis500k club Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order Join Date Jul 2008 Posts 1,033 Quote Originally Posted by Lord Finnish View Post Don't forget the sweet CB you get on all non-Orthodox with Religion idea

s. That alone made it worth it IMO. The diplomacy ideas are far more useful for that. In particular as Byzan tium you get a lot of free BYZ specific casus bellis from missions against thing s in your neighborhood. You get the free claims in India from this generic missi on. You get the free claims in China from this generic mission. Former Minister of Demographics and Migration of the Victoria 2 Realism and Rebalance Project Reply With Quote Reply With Quote 21-08-2013 22:07 #32 Lord Finnish Lord Finnish is online now Jackals! Vultures! Lord Finnish's Avatar Arsenal of DemocracyCrusader Kings IIDarkest HourEuropa Universalis 3Divine Wind For the MotherlandHearts of Iron IIIHeir to the ThroneSemper FiVictoria 2 Victoria II: A House DividedVictoria II: Heart of DarknessMount & Blade: War band500k clubEuropa Universalis IV: Pre-order Join Date Sep 2006 Location European Union Posts 9,381 Blog Entries 2 Quote Originally Posted by Phi View Post The diplomacy ideas are far more useful for that. In particular as Byzan tium you get a lot of free BYZ specific casus bellis from missions against thing s in your neighborhood. You get the free claims in India from this generic missi on. You get the free claims in China from this generic mission. How do they even remotely compare with a free CB against everything that is not Orthodox, with 50% AE reduction no less, and even war score demand reduc tion from what I understand. India and China are petty gimmicks, with Holy War c b you can take vast amounts of land quickly and painlessly. Mod: Byzantium - Imperial Restoration for Darkest Hour Empire of Pohjola for Crusader Kings II AAR: The Nazi Time Machine - A Strange Story of the First Reich (CK2) Dead du e to save game corruption. Will restart eventually. Reply With Quote Reply With Quote 21-08-2013 22:08 #33 hajutze hajutze is offline Captain Crusader Kings IIEU3 CompleteMount & Blade: Warband Join Date Sep 2011 Posts 328 Just a note for after you take Greece back.

Dont go conquering left and right on the northern countries. Go for vass alising and liberating (for example taking 1 county from Hungary which is a croa tian core -> make croatia a vassal -> liberate the rest after the peace -> annex ). This way you wont have a direct border with Poland and Austria which is quite useful until you become stronger In short Turks and arabs - conquer Europeans - Vassalise Heck with some luck you can PU Hungary, Poland and Luthiania. Reply With Quote Reply With Quote 21-08-2013 22:14 #34 aqvamare aqvamare is offline First Lieutenant aqvamare's Avatar Crusader Kings IISemper FiVictoria 2Europa Universalis IV Join Date Aug 2010 Posts 284 If you use this tactic, support rebell mission works wonder. You donot n eed annex everything to free all culture cores. Only wai when they crumble and y ou se nice nations forming. Reply With Quote Reply With Quote 21-08-2013 22:38 #35 Phi Phi is offline Colonel Phi's Avatar Cities in MotionCrusader Kings IIEU3 CompleteFor the MotherlandHearts of Iro n III Majesty 2March of the EaglesEuropa Universalis: RomeSemper FiSengoku Victoria 2Victoria II: A House DividedVictoria II: Heart of DarknessRome: Va e Victis500k club Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order Join Date Jul 2008 Posts 1,033 Quote Originally Posted by Lord Finnish View Post How do they even remotely compare with a free CB against everything that is not Orthodox, with 50% AE reduction no less, and even war score demand reduc tion from what I understand. India and China are petty gimmicks, with Holy War c b you can take vast amounts of land quickly and painlessly. These are the relevant casus belli: Code: # Holy War cb_crusade = { prerequisites = { is_defender_of_faith = no is_neighbor_of = FROM

NOT = { is_year = 1650 } OR = { religion_group = christian religion_group = muslim } NOT = { religion_group = FROM } OR = { AND = { FROM = { is_crusade_target = yes } religion = catholic } cb_on_religious_enemies = yes } } war_goal = superiority_crusade } # Defender of the Faith cb_defender_of_the_faith = { prerequisites = { is_defender_of_faith = yes OR = { religion_group = christian religion_group = muslim } NOT = { religion = FROM } cb_on_religious_enemies = yes is_neighbor_of = FROM } war_goal = defend_country_faith } # Purging of Heresy cb_heretic = { prerequisites = { is_neighbor_of = FROM cb_on_religious_enemies = yes religion_group = from NOT = { religion = from } } allowed_provinces = { always = yes } war_goal = superiority_heretic } As you see there are two cases: If you are not the defender of your faith, then you have a free casu s belli to attack all your neighbors which are not Christians until 1650. If you are the defender of your faith, then you a free casus belli t o attack your neighbors which are non-orthodox.

In both cases you can always purge heresy in neighboring countries. What are the conditions? For the first casus belli: Code: superiority_crusade = { type = superiority attacker = { badboy_factor = 0.25 prestige_factor = 1.25 peace_cost_factor = 1.0 allowed_provinces = { always = yes } po_demand_provinces = yes po_annex = yes country_desc = ALL_INFIDELS prov_desc = ALL_PROVS } defender = { badboy_factor = 0.25 prestige_factor = 1.25 peace_cost_factor = 1.0 allowed_provinces = { always = yes } po_demand_provinces = yes po_annex = yes country_desc = ALL_INFIDELS prov_desc = ALL_PROVS } allow_leader_change = yes war_name = CRUSADE_WAR_NAME } defend_country_faith = { type = defend_country allowed_countries = { religion = ROOT } badboy_factor = 0 prestige_factor = 2 peace_cost_factor = 0.5 po_release_vassals = yes po_release_annexed = yes

po_revoke_cores = yes po_gold = yes po_concede_defeat = yes allow_leader_change = yes war_name = DOF_WAR_NAME } superiority_heretic = { type = superiority badboy_factor = 0.5 prestige_factor = 2 peace_cost_factor = 1.0 allowed_provinces = { always = yes } po_change_religion = yes po_demand_provinces = yes country_desc = ALL_HERETICS prov_desc = ALL_PROVS war_name = HERETIC_WAR_NAME } So the badboy value is significantly cheaper for all three casus belli, the peace costs only for the defender of the faith. In my opinion only the casus belli of the defender of the faith is really good. I would think about taking i t as a fourth idea group or something like this without unlocking more than the first idea of the religious tree if I plan to by the defender of the faith a lot as Byzantium. As Byzantium I like to get into the Indian trade. There the religious ca sus belli are not useful, since you are not neighboring Indian or Chinese states , but you still get your free claims cheaper with the diplomacy idea group. Former Minister of Demographics and Migration of the Victoria 2 Realism and Rebalance Project Reply With Quote Reply With Quote 14-09-2013 03:19 #36 LittleBill LittleBill is offline Corporal LittleBill's Avatar Crusader Kings IIEU3 CompleteHeir to the ThroneVictoria 2Victoria II: A Hous e Divided 500k clubEuropa Universalis IV Join Date Nov 2012 Location Beijing Posts 32 Another fun strategy.

If the Ottoman navy is smaller than yours they usually park it in Edrine . Rather than using your whole fleet to block the strait you can put the bulk of your fleet in the Agean and leave one galley in Marmara to stop the Turkish arm y from crossing (that is assuming there are no enemy naval units in the Black Se a, of course.). You can blockade more ports that way, and when you capture Edrine you fo rce the Turkish fleet out into the Agean where most of your navy is waiting to d estroy it. I usually manage a complete naval blockade of Turkey in the first war . Reply With Quote Reply With Quote 14-09-2013 13:08 #37 Mgoblue201 Mgoblue201 is offline Second Lieutenant Mgoblue201's Avatar Crusader Kings IIVictoria 2Victoria II: A House DividedEU3 Collectors Editio nEuropa Universalis IV: Pre-order Join Date May 2012 Posts 118 The only two factors that really matter to surviving past the first few years are Byzantine naval power and the missions that the Ottomans select, and t he second factor is obviously well beyond your control. If the Ottomans choose C ity of the World's Desire or Conquer Southern Greece as their first mission, the n that means they'll soon declare war against Byzantium, probably without even l eaving Europe. It took me three separate attempts before the Ottomans finally cr ossed the strait back into Anatolia and only then because they demurred from sel ecting a mission. Once the Ottomans commit to attacking the Anatolian nations, t he first war against them is fairly simple. The one thing that really requires a lot of strategy is what you do after you win the first war, because Byzantium i s still at an enormous military disadvantage even if you reclaim all your cores. Anyway, I'm nearly 60 years into my Byzantium game, and I wanted some ad vice about what I should choose for my second idea (naval was first). Admin poin ts are kind of scarce right now, but religion seemed like the best choice becaus e I really want the holy war CB against the Ottomans and the improved ability to convert their conquered provinces. Reply With Quote Reply With Quote 14-09-2013 17:26 #38 xnao xnao is offline First Lieutenant Crusader Kings IIDeus VultEuropa Universalis 3EU3 CompleteDivine Wind Heir to the ThroneMarch of the EaglesEuropa Universalis: RomeSengokuRome: Va e Victis Mount & Blade: WarbandMount & Blade: With Fire and SwordPride of NationsCK2: Holy Knight500k club Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order Join Date Sep 2006 Posts 269 Religious if you ever want the restore the pentarchy mission to stop pop

ping up. 1111 days to convert rome. There are also other nice bonuses to it, tho ugh I have a feeling the -1 stab event concerning narrowminded approach to ideas is tied to it as well. Reply With Quote Reply With Quote 14-09-2013 17:39 #39 zodium zodium is online now Colonel zodium's Avatar Europa Universalis IV Join Date Sep 2013 Location The Netherlands Posts 1,061 Quote Originally Posted by Mgoblue201 View Post The only two factors that really matter to surviving past the first few years are Byzantine naval power and the missions that the Ottomans select, and t he second factor is obviously well beyond your control. If the Ottomans choose C ity of the World's Desire or Conquer Southern Greece as their first mission, the n that means they'll soon declare war against Byzantium, probably without even l eaving Europe. It took me three separate attempts before the Ottomans finally cr ossed the strait back into Anatolia and only then because they demurred from sel ecting a mission. Once the Ottomans commit to attacking the Anatolian nations, t he first war against them is fairly simple. The one thing that really requires a lot of strategy is what you do after you win the first war, because Byzantium i s still at an enormous military disadvantage even if you reclaim all your cores. Anyway, I'm nearly 60 years into my Byzantium game, and I wanted some ad vice about what I should choose for my second idea (naval was first). Admin poin ts are kind of scarce right now, but religion seemed like the best choice becaus e I really want the holy war CB against the Ottomans and the improved ability to convert their conquered provinces. Religious ideas are your bread and butter as Byzantium. I wouldn't even push admin tech past 7 until you complete it, because you need both the CB and t he +relations (for AE management), as well as the +missionary (for conversion). Given that you went Naval Ideas (probably not a good pick, honestly, since Byzan tium has little use for navies after the 1400s), you might want to take it to 10 for Diplo ideas, but then you should really finish Religious. Reply With Quote Reply With Quote 14-09-2013 18:12 #40 Mgoblue201 Mgoblue201 is offline Second Lieutenant Mgoblue201's Avatar Crusader Kings IIVictoria 2Victoria II: A House DividedEU3 Collectors Editio nEuropa Universalis IV: Pre-order Join Date May 2012 Posts 118 My rationale for picking naval was twofold. First, since the Ottomans ha d already chosen naval ideas, I was at an enormous disadvantage in morale. I had already lost one battle to the Ottoman fleet, and the only reason it didn't cos t me is because their army was distracted by the Mamluks and they didn't have an

y troops near the Sea of Marmara. Second, the Ottomans had about 30 ships, and m y economy was already suffering as I was well above my force limit. Since my obj ective was merely to take back former Byzantine territory, and since I don't rea lly want to play too deep into the game, I did what was best in the short term. Besides, I am only now reaching the stage where religious ideas have actually be come useful. The aggressive expansion penalty has not been an issue, and I haven 't needed the extra missionary strength until now. Reply With Quote Reply With Quote + Reply to Thread Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst Previous 1 2 3 Next LastLast Previous Thread | Next Thread Posting Permissions You You You You may may may may not not not not post post post edit new threads replies attachments your posts

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