You are on page 1of 104






vs. No. CV-99 -04389-M,l,l

MARY V. KING, et a1.,




REPORTEÐBY: HOLLY D. H E N S Y E L , C . S . R . NO. l_0508


Certifïed Shorthand and Video Reporters
Street 505 W. WhittierAve. 516rtr. ShawAve., Ste.200
251 'üI. Jaclcson 300 J St¡eet,Ste200

& Sonor4Ca95370 Tncy,Cø-95376 Fresno,Ca"93704 Sacramento, Ca 9581

ffi Telephone;(209).532-9352Fax (209) 532,.9362



3 For P1aíntiffs:



6 126l Lincoln Avenue, Suite L11_

7 San ,.Tose, CA 9S12S

9 For Defendants:




t2 355 South Grand Avenue, 40th Floor

i_3 Los Angeles, CA 9007i--3101













z l/[ïTNESS



â, BY MR. PTERCE 4, 78

7 BY MR. KTLMER 28, 80


Ll_ No. Descript.ion Page

L2 i- Letter to Richard K. pickering from

l_3 Richard E. Wínnie dated August 23,

t4 ]-999 5

l_5 2 Ordinance No. O-ZOOO-]_1 5

L6 3 Letter to T & S Trade Show from

L7 Rick pickering dated Septembet 7,

l_8 l.999

L9 4 Ordinance No. O-2OOO-22

20 5 to Rick pickering from

21, Donald E. ,f . Kilmer, ,Jr., dated.

22 October 20, l99g

23 6 Letter to T & S Trade Shows from

24 Terri Eagan Thut dated January 5,

25 2000
1 EXHIBIT INDEX (Continued) ...

¿ No. Description Page

5 7 Letter to Richard Pickerinq from

4 Dona1d E. .ï. Kilmer, Jr., daÈed

5 February 25, 2005 5

6 Let.ter to Donald E. ,J. Kilmer, Jt.,

7 from Rick Pickering dated Marc}a 22,

B 2005 5

9 9 Packet of letters 39

1-0 L0 Invoice dated l0/3I/gg 40















that pursuant to NOTICE and on

3, 2005, ât the hour of l-0:05 a.m. at the

? ALAMEDA COUNTYFAIRGROUNDS, 450L pleasanton Avenue,

4 Pleasanton, California, personally appeared before me,

5 HOLLY D. HENSYEL, a Certified Shorthand Reporter for the

6 St.ate of Ca1ífornia,


I a deponent herein, who, being first duly affirmed, \^ras

9 thereupon examíned and Èestified as hereinafter set

10 forth:

l_l_ (Exhíbíts L through I marked for

t2 Ídentification. )




T6 O. Good morning, Mr. pickering. Could you state

t7 and speIl your fuII name for the record?

L8 A. Rick K. Pickering, R-i-c-k, and then the letter

T9 K., P-i-c-k-e-r-i-n-9.

20 O. We're here for your deposition today in the

2t case involving Alameda County's ordinance, whích bans

22 the possession of firearms on County-owned. property.

23 I'm going to ask you some guestions and I think

24 Mr. Kilmer is going to have some guestj-ons for you as

25 weII. Are you employed, sir?

l_ A. Yes, I am.

2 O. Vüho is your employer?

3 A. The Alameda County Agricultural Fair

4 Association.

5 O. What is your title?

6 A. Chief Executive Officer.

7 O. How long have you been the CEO?

I A. Since January 4, L999.

1 9 O. Cou1d you briefly describe your duties?

t_0 A. I am the sole employee of the Board of

l_l_ Directors under long-term contracE responsible for the

t2 operations and finances and upkeep of the property and

l_3 all of the programs produced here on the property, all

t4 of the subleases that exist and I report directly to a

L5 Board of 26 individuals and we are a nonprofit 5OLC3

t6 corporation.

t7 O. Do you recalI ín 1999 learning that Alameda

1_8 County had adopted an ordinance prohibiting the

t9 possession of firearms on County property?

20 A. Yes.

2t O. I'd like to refer you to Exhibít L, which has

22 been premarked, and I,m handing a copy of that to

23 Mr. Kilmer.

24 I'd like you just to read that letter, if you

25 could, please.
l_ A. Okay.

z O. What is this document, sir?

3 A. This is a letter from Chief Countv Counsel

4 Richard Winnie to myself.

5 O. Do you recaII receiving this letter?

6 A. Yes, I do.

7 O. I would now like to show you what,s been

I premarked as Exhibit No. 2. I belíeve vou have it

v there , Lf you could take a look at t.hat document.

10 A. Okay.

1l_ o. WhaL is Exhibit No. 2?

t2 A. ft appears to be the County's ordÍnance that is

L3 referred to in the August 23, '99 letter.

t4 O. Okay, thank you. And that was the ordinance

L5 Èhat was attached weII, v/as it att.ached to the

t6 that you receíved ;-.

from Mr. wt_nnr_e?

t7 A. Yes, it. was.

1_8 O. Do you recall after receÍving this letter from

L9 Mr. rrlinníe with the attached ordinance writinq a letter

20 to the Nordykes asking them t,o show how they would

2t conduct Lheir trade show in compliance with the

22 ordínance?

23 A. Yes.

24 O. I'd like to show you what,s been premarked as

25 Exhibit 3. I'm handing a copy to Mr. Kilmer. If you

L could take a look at Exhibit 3 and then identify it for

2 Lrs, please?

3 A. This is a copy of a letter dated September Z,

4 '99 from myself to T & S Trade Shows, Russ and Sa1lie

5 Nordyke.

6 O. Could you please read the third paragraph of

7 Lhe letter, the second sentence of the third paragraph

I of the letter?

9 A. 'twith regards to the potential of a November

l_0 gun show, T & S Trade Show must provide the AssociatÍon

l_t_ with a written plan by October 1_5th, tggg, âs to how it

t2 will conduct the gun show at the Alameda County

l_3 Fairgrounds and comply with Ordinance No . O-2OOO-LL.,'

L4 O. What prompted you to write this letter?

15 A. The letter from County Counsel. Let me back

t6 up. The August 23, ,99 letter from County Counsel.

L7 O. Why were you asking the T & S Trade Shows to

L8 provide an explanation as Lo how they would cond.uct a

t9 gun show or a trade show on County property?

20 A. The second paragraph of Mr. Winnie,s Augustr 23,

2L '99 letter stated that the ordínance would take effect

22 on September l-6th, Lggg.

23 He then referenced the operating agreement

24 between the Fair Association and the county of Alameda,

25 Sectíon L5, that states, r'The Fairgrounds must be

L operated in compliance with all applicable laws, codes,

2 regulations and ordinances, including the attached

3 ordinance,rr which referred to the gun show ordinance.

4 Therefore, I attached the gun show ordinance in

5 my letLer to the Nord.ykes and asked for a plan as to how

6 they would comply with this ordinance.

7 O. Prior to writing the lett,er to the Nordykes on

I September the 7tr}r, 1999, had you ever received. any

9 indication from the Nordykes or their Iega1 counsel that

1-0 they were not going Èo be able to comply with the

t_L ordinance?

L2 A. Yes.

l_3 O. Vüas that also ín part what prompted you to

I4 wrÍte the letter of September 7th, l-ggg?

L5 A. Yes.

t6 O. Do you recalI a few weeks after you wrote this

t7 letter of September 7E]n, L999, that the County amend.ed

18 its ordinance by addíng an exception to the ban on

L9 firearms possession on County property?

20 A. Yes

21 O, And how díd you come to learn about the amended

22 ordinance?

23 A. Scottish Caledonian Games approached us

24 indicating that they üzeren,t sure if they could comply

25 with this ordinance.

Pa e 9
l_ I sent them to the County of Alameda and said,

2 rtYou need to have that discussion with County Counsel

3 and the Sherif f ' s Deþartment. 'r

4 The result of those discussions came back, to

5 my understanding, came back with an amendment to the

6 ordinance which would allow possessíon of firearms under

7 certain circumstances .

I In the case of the ScotÈish games, it would

9 al1ow them to do a historical reenactment provided

l_0 certain safeguards were in place.

l_1_ O. Did the County forward a copy of the amended

t2 ordinance to you at some point?

t3 A. Yes.

I4 O. I'd like you to take a look at what's been

L5 premarked as Exhibit 4. f'm handing a copy to

l6 Mr. Kilmer.

t7 A. Okay. I've reviewed it.

L8 O. V'Ihat is Exhibit No. 4, sír?

T9 A. Exhíbit No. 4 is Ordinance O-2Ooo-22, which

20 appears to be ít states that it's amending the prior

2l ordinance.

22 O. Is this the amended ordinance that you received

23 from t,he County?

24 A. I believe it is, yes.

25 o. Now, at the time this amended ordinance hras

Pa e 1 0
l- adopted, what events had taken place at the Faírgrounds

2 where firearms were present? Any events in the past

3 where firearms were present?

4 A. fs your question between when I came on in

5 ,Tanuary of '99 through when this ordÍnance was amended?

6 O. Let's Iímit it to that time for purposes of Lhe

7 question.

I A. I believe there had been two gun shows,

9 possibly the September gun show. We had the August

10 Scott,ish Caledonian Games. I'm not sure how thaÈ date

l_l_ faIls within this amendment..

L2 0. Let me fo1Iow-up with t.he Scottish g'ames. Had

l_3 you ever personally observed the Scottish games?

t4 A. Not at this facility.

l-5 O. Had you personally observed them at some other

T6 facilitv?

t7 A. Yes, a smaller version of the Scottish games is

L8 conducted at the Orange County Fairgrounds in Costa

T9 Mesa, California

20 O. When did you observe those?

2t A. I was the Deputy General Manager at the Orange

22 County Fairgrounds for five years, so I obserwed them

23 for five years.

24 a. What is the main t,hrust of thaÈ event?

25 A. The Scottish Caledonian Games?

Ëd. 11
l_ O. Yes, sír.

2 A. Tt's been termed as the largest gathering of

Scotsmen outside of Scot1and. They consider it the

4 eguívalent of the ScotÈÍsh O1ympics, so heawy weights,

5 weightlifting, weight throwing, Èossing the caber,

6 bagpipes, Scottish Highland'dancing, fíve-on-a-side

7 soccer tour:naments, darts, híst.orical reenactments,

I historical vilIage, the garb that goes with the Scottish

9 clans that are here.

1_0 They bring in some British automobiles like the

l_L MG's and the MG Midgets. Normally, there is a pageantry

t2 display, a parade of people in costume, swords, knives.

1_3 Scottish garb is for sale, Scottish food is for sa1e,

l4 ethnic food. pertinent to the Scots specifically

15 There are normally dignitaries associated with

t6 the event such as Scottísh Ambassadors, British

t7 Ambassadors, mílitary personnel. There is normally a

18 Grand Marshal dignitary. This last year it was Colonel

L9 Doty, an Army colonel, from Camp parks. There are

20 normally battle scene reenactments, whether it,s swords

2t and. knives or firearms.

22 O. Okay. Does t,he Scottish games conduct their

23 events at the Alameda County Fairgrounds now?

24 A. Yes, each August.

25 O. Every August?

Pa t2
l_ A. Every August.

¿ O. And that,s still ongoing?

3 A. Correct,.

4 O. Are firearms used in the hístorical

5 reenactments?

6 A. They are.

7 O. Is there, to your knowledge, any restrict.ion on

I the use of firearms?

9 A. Yes, there is.

1_0 0. What are those?

l_l_ A. The restrictions outlined in the ordinance, all

t2 of the firearms have to have certain care and custody.

l_3 lVe turn that matter over to the Pleasanton police

L4 Department and the Alameda CounÈy Sheriff Department for

L5 review

t6 The care and custody of those firearms, they

t7 are to keep them under lock and key until such time as

L8 they are brought out for the historical reenactment.

L9 They are then supposed to go back under lock and key and

20 they are firing only blanks.

2t O. .A,re only those individuals who are authorized

22 participants in the Scottish games allowed to handle or

23 possess the firearms during these hist.orical

24 reenactments?

25 A. We've provided the organizers of the ScoÈtish

Pa l_3
1 Caledonian Games with a copy of the ordinance for them

2 t.o comply wíth as well as we provide the ordinance to

the Pleasanton Police Department and Countv Sheriff,s


5 O. When the Scottish games came to you after this

6 ordinance, after Alameda County, s ordinance had been

7 adopr-ed in its original form, did you telI them that

I they needed to explaín how they were going to comply

9 vüíth the ordinance?

L0 A. lle told them that unless the ordinance was

l_l_ ihanged., they would have to provide us with a plan as to

t2 how they could comply with the ordinance

l_3 O. Have you ever heard of an event ca1Ied an

1,4 Outdoor & Sportsmen's Show?

15 A. tüe have an International Outdoor & Sportsmen, s

t6 Show.

t7 O. When you say you have it, does that mean they

L8 conducÈ shows on the fairgrounds, Alameda County

L9 Fairgrounds?

20 A. They have for the past several years. They

2t have cancelled their show for 2006.

22 O. And before the 2006 cancellatÍon, were they

23 conductÍng a show annually on the Faírgrounds?

24 A. Yes, roughly February of each lear; February or

25 March.

Pa e L 4
1_ O. And have you ever personally observed an

2 Outdoor & Sportsmen,s Show on the Alameda County

3 Fairgrounds?

4 A. Each year sínce they came to the Fairground.s,

5 which may have been 20Oi- or 2002.

6 O. And what is the maÍn thrust of an Outdoor &

7 Sportsmen's Show?

I A. The show that takes place here is d.ifferent

9 than Èhe show that takes place in San Mateo, which is

L0 t,heír very large show in San Mateo.

l_1_ The show j-n San Mateo includes firearms r

l2 ammunÍtion, reloading material, gun leather holsters, êt

1_3 cetera, hunting trips, travel guides, fishing, gaming,

t4 fishing tríps, boats, fishingi gear, materials and.

l_5 supplíes for hunting and fishing.

l_6 When the show leaves San Mateo and then moves

t7 to Pleasanton, that show is not allowed to have firearms

l_8 as described in this ordinance or ammunition as

t9 described in t,his ordinance, so it is a símiIar show as

20 San Mateo wiLh the exception of no firearms or

2L ammunition, so there are hunting components, travel

22 hunting opportunities, boating components, fishing

23 components, adventure tríps for fishing and hunting and

24 then the relaÈed materials and supplies.

¿> O. Have you ever seen a firearm on the Alameda

e l-5
L County Fairgrounds during an Outdoor & Sportsmen's Show?

2 A. Not as defined by this ordinance.

5 O. Have you seen a firearm outsíde of the

4 definition of firearms within the ordinance?

5 A. We have seen instruments that we have

6 guestioned whether they are consídered a firearm or not

7 as descri-bed by thís ordinance.

I O. What sort of instruments?

9 A. Specifically, the International Spor tsm en's

l_0 Show brought in a paínt ball gun and had that on

l_l_ dísplay, I believe, on a mannegui-n.

L2 O. okay.

1_3 A. And the vendor was a vendor that owned a paint

t4 ball practice range in either the Fremont or San ,Jose

L5 area and t.hey v\¡ere selling either a 910 or gL5 coupon

1,6 for people to go down to their range and engage in paint

t7 ball activities, but the paint ball gun was not for

1_8 sale, and the ammunition was not for sale, meaning the

t9 plastic paint ba1ls.

20 The other item that was referred Lo us for

2t consideration as to whether it was a firearm under the

22 terms of the ordínance, Internatíona1 Sportsmen, s Show

23 brought in members of the NRÄ, set up paper targets and

24 were using either spring or aÍr propelled soft peIlets,

25 which are a small plastic peIIet that pierced the paper

e L 6
l- target

2 In both of those incidents, we contacÈed

3 Lieutenant Knutsen, Lhe Alameda County Sheriff's

4 Department, and asked for Sheriff's interpretation as to

5 whet,her Lhose implements were encompassed in this

6 ordinance or whether the Sheriff believed t,hev were

7 exempted by this ordinance.

'8 And whaÈ was the

O. conclusion?

9 A. That they vüere exempted by the ordinance.

1_0 o. I just want to refer you to the ordinance,

i_l_ Exhibit 4, Paragraph D, whích seLs forth the definition

l2 of a firearm.

1_3 It says, rrFirearm is any g'un, pistol, revolver,

t4 rifle or any device, designed or modifíed to be used as

1_5 a weapon, from which j-s expelled through a barrel a

t6 projectile by Èhe force of an explosion or other form of

L7 combustion. r'

1_8 This paint ball rifle you referred to, was that

t9 ríf1e the barrel through which is expelled a projectile

20 by the force of combustíon or explosion?

2A A. ït is compressed air.

22 O. So is the answer to the question no?

23 A. According to Lieutenant Knutsen, the answer

24 would be twofold. One is that it is a comþressed air

25 cylinder. Two, it is not a metal projectile as

1 envLsioned in the original ord.inance, It is a plastic

2 ball with paint insid.e of ít.

3 O. With respect to an air soft gun you referred

4 to, is that capable of expelling any sort of a

5 proj ectile?

6 A. It expels a small sofÈ plastic projecÈile,

7 typically through the use of a spring or a cornpressed

I aír activity of a BB gun.

9 O. Is that a mechanical spring?

1_0 A. Yes.

l_l_ 0. So we're not talking about combustion?

t2 A. Correct.

1_3 O. I'm goíng to refer you back to Exhibit 3 for á

T4 minute, which is the letter that, I believe, you wrote

15 to the Nordykes. You \^rere asking for a written p1an,

l_6 correct?

17 A. Right.

l_8 O. Ðid you ever receive a response to thís letter?

a9 A. A verbal phone calI, but nothíng in writing.

20 O. Ðo you recall ever receivíng a letLer from

2t Mr. Kilmer on behalf of the Nordykes?

22 A. Yes.

23 O. I'd like you to look at what,s been marked as

24 Exhibit 5. I'm handing a copy to Mr. Kilmer.

25 If you could please read the letter, sir, and

t_ then teII me what it is.

2 A. I've read the letter.

3 O. Ànd what is this letter?

4 A. This ís a letter from Donald Kilmer, Jr., the

5 attorney for T & S Trade Shows, addressed to myself

6 dated October 20, a999.

7 O. I^trasit your understanding f rom this letter Lhat

I the Nordykes were not going to attempt to conduct their

9 trade shows under the ordinance?

l_0 A. WeII, Èhe letter states that T & S Trade Shows

1l_ intends to proceed. wíth the November 6th and 7th show

t2 until or unless the .Iudge declines to grant their

3-3 reguest for a Temporary Restrainíng Order as a result of

L4 the hearing scheduled for October 28th.

l_5 O. Was it your understanding from this letter that

L6 the Nordykes were not going to submit an explanation

t7 that you had reguested as to how they could conduct

l_8 their t.rade shows ín compliance with the ordinance?

L9 MR. KILMER: ObjecÈion to the extent that that

20 question cal1s for speculation.

2t THE WTTNESS: I could only refer to the closÍng

22 paragraph of Mr. Kílmer's let,ter that says, "I cannoÈ

23 find any language that requires them to submít a written

24 plan such as the one you requested. They do, in facÈ,

¿> have contractual obligations to comply with all federal,

l_ state and locaI laws. please be assured that my clients

2 íntend. to comply with all of their legaI obligations

3 both contractual and statutorv.'r

4 MR. PIERCE: e. Thank you. Before I go on to

5 what's been marked as Exhíbit 7, I want to go back for a

6 minute and fo11o\4r-uþ.

7 The paint ball gun that you referred Eo during

I t,he Out.door & Sportsmen,s Show,'had that been

9 pre-approved by the Fair Associatíon?

L0 A. It had not been pre-approved by the Fair

Ll_ Association.

t2 O. And how did you learn of its exístence on the

l_3 Fairgrounds during the Outdoor & Sportsmen,s Show?

L4 A. In the process of the show loading in, which is

t-5 when the show is actually setting up and the booth was

L6 set up, our staff normally walks through the

L7 buildings whether they are custodial staff,

l_8 maintenance staff or event sÈaff and saw the paint.

t9 ball display being assembled and contacted me.

20 I took a look at the display as it was 90r-ng

2L oD, asked were they actually selling paint bal1 guns and

22 htere they actually selling paint balls or not.

23 They ind.icaÈed all they were doing was s e l l i n g

24 a discount coupon to go to the paint ball fie1d. I then

25 contacted Lieutenant Knutsen who gave me his

l_ interpretation.

2 0. And what about with respect to the air sofÈ

3 guns you mentioned? Had Èhose been pre-approved by the

4 Fair Association prior to the commencement of the

5 Outdoor 6. Sportsmen, s Show?

6 A. Let me back up. Answering your first question,

7 the show had not commenced. It was in the process of

I setting the show up where our staff discovered the paint

9 ball gun.

l_0 O. okay.

L1_ A. We then received the verbal approvat from

t2 LieuÈenant Knutsen before the show opened.

l_3 fn the case of the air soft pe1let guns or air

L4 soft rifles, a similar situation. The show had actually

1_5 opened. Prior to the opening of the show, these pel1et

t6 BB rif les h¡ere not, on displai¡. It was in a children, s

t7 area ínside of a building where there, s large canvas

L8 walIs and that was all that was ín that site.

l9 When the show opened, these air soft rifles

20 came out. Gentlemen with caps hrere

2L standing there. Lit,tle paper targets went up against a

22 large canvas waII and they were allowing children to

23 have five shots wíth a littIe plastíc peIIet.

24 o. How many air rifles are we talking about?

25 A. I believe they had five or six firing stations

Pa 2t
1 in a líne and they were supervised one NR-A,capped person

¿ per firing sÈation working with each youth.

3 O. I want to show you what's been previously

= marked as Exhibit 6. I thÍnk I mistakenlv said Z

5 before, but we're looking at 6. I'm handing a copy to

6 Mr. Kilmer.

7 Mr. Píckering, if you could review this letter

I and telI us what it is.

9 A. This is a letter from Terrj- Eagan Thut,
l_0 T-h-u-t, the Events Coordinator with the Fair

t_l_ Association, addressed to T s. S Trade Shows,

t2 specifically SaIIie Nordyke. Enclosed with t.he letter

1_3 apparently was Check No. 3238, a refund of a deposít for

1,4 the year 2O0O event d.ates in the amount of $3,790.

L5 O. Do you recognize the signature?

1_6 A. Yes.

17 O. And you've seen Ms. Thut's signature on how

1_8 many occasions?

L9 A. V'Iehave more than 300 evenLs a yearr so on many

20 occasions.

2L O. As far as you know, \^ras Lhis letter sent to

22 T&STradeShows?

23 A. To the best of my knowledge, yes.

24 O. Did you receive a letter from Mr. Kilmer

25 earlíer this ]¡ear regarding t.he County, s ordinance? T

1 mean, the ordinance that bans the possession of firearms

2 on County property.

3 A. Yes.

4 O. I'd like to show you what has been premarked as

5 Exhibit 7. f'm handing a copy to Mr. KÍlmer.

6 If you could please review this letter and teII

7 us what it is, sir.

I A. Okay. L,ve reviewed. the letter.

9 0. And what is this letter?

l_0 A. This is a letter from Ðonald Kilmer, ,Jr. ,

1_L attorney for Russ and Sa11ie Nordyke dated February 25,

t2 2005 addressed to myself.

1_3 O. And did you ever respond to this

L4 A. Yes, I did.

l_5 O. I'd like to show you what,s been premarked

t6 Exhibit 8. I'm handing a copy to Mr. Kilmer.

L7 If you could look at thís letter and tel1 us

18 what it is, please.

L9 A. This is a letter from myself dated March 22ni,

20 2005, to Donald Kilmer, Jt., ín response to his February

2L 25th letter.

22 O. Now, you have responded here to Inguíry No. 1-

23 where it appears you,ve stated., rrAs a nonprofÍt

24 corporation, the Association is not aware that Ít has

25 any unique authority to grant exceptions to ord.inancês

1_ of the County of Alameda.'t

2 Am I correct to conclude that you were saying

3 that the Fair Association does not have the authority to

4 recognize any exceptions to the ordinance banning

5 firearms on County property other than Èhose exceptions

6 that are list.ed ín the ordinance?

7 A. V[e11, Ry response is rnuch broader than thaL.

I As a nonprofít. corporation, the Fair Association is not

9 aware thaÈ it has any unigue authority to grant

t_0 exceptions Eo ord.inances of thq County of Alameda.

t-L O. Okay. So your response is referríng not only

l2 to the ordinance at issue Ín this case, prohibiting the

L5 possession of firearms, buL you're referring to any

L4 ordinance?

15 A. That is correct.

t6 O. If I'm correct in understandingr 1zour response

t7 here would apply to the ordinance banning the possession

l_8 of firearms. Let's just. focus on that one. Wou1d that

l_9 mean that you're saying here that the Faír Association

20 does not have any authority to grant exceptions to that

2L ordínance other Ehan what míqht be in the ordinance?

22 A. And we would refer to the County Sheriff's

23 Ðepartment or County Counsel to determine an

24 interpretation of that exemptíon.

25 O. So the answer to my question is yes?

Pa 24
1- MR. KILMER: Objection. The wi-tness's resþorlse

2 is responsive to your ans\,ùer.

5 THE WITNESS: I believe Mr. Kilmer,s letter of

4 February 25, his first ínguiry is, trÏs the Fair

5 Association or I as the CEO able to grant exceptions

6 from any of the provisions of the ordinance forbiddíng

7 the possession of fj-rearms on County property?"

8 My response of March 22nd is that the Fair is

9 nonprofit corporation. The Faír Association ís not

1_0 aware that it has any unique authority to grant

l_l_ exceptions to ordinances of the County of A1ameda.'t

l2 It's implied that that íncludes the possession

1_3 of firearms and ammunition ordinance.

t4 MR. PïERCE: Q. What f,m getting at here is,

1-5 the Fair Association would recognize the exceptíons that

t6 are in the ordinance?

t7 A. That ís correct.

L8 O. Okay. That was the thrust. of my quesÈion"

L9 A. If there was any question as to, 'rÐid that

20 exempÈion apply or not, I' we would inquire of the County

2t Sheriff's Department as the chief law enforcement agency

22 of the County of Alameda for interpretatíon.

23 O. I'd like to refer you to Exhibit 4, which is

24 the amended ordínance.

25 A. Very well.

l_ O. I'd lÍke you t,o look at Subdivision F-4, which

2 is one of the exceptions. It,s on page 2.

3 If you could just read that to yourself and let

4 me know when you,re finished

5 A. Very well

6 O. Now, Ín your position as the CEO of the Fair

7 Association, do you interpret this exception as limited

I only to motion pictures, television, video, dance and

9 theatrical productions or could the exception

i-0 conceivably include other types of events, and since it

1_l- mentions events here, perhaps an event that is akin to

t2 the ScotÈish sames?

L3 A. Again, f would defer Èo the Alameda County

l4 Sheriff's Department as our chief 1aw enforcement agency

l_5 to int.erpret anything outside of television, video,

16 dance or theatrical production.

t7 I would indicate that the ScottÍsh Caledonians

r_8 believe their entire show or portions of t.heir show are

t9 theatrícaI productions, thus the pageantry, the parades,

20 Lhe announcements, the reenactment of their battles

2t either with swords or fírearms would be considered by

22 them to be a theatrícal production.

23 O. If the Nordykes were t,o submit a plan to you

24 explaining how they planned. to conduct their trade

25 shows, would you try and work with them to see if there

P e 2 6
1_ hTas a \á¡ay they could conduct as many aspects of their

2 trade shows as possible under the ordinance?

3 A. Yes, and we would also submit their plan to the

4 County Sheriff's Ðepartment for interpretation regarding

5 the CounLy's ordinance.

6 0. If Lhe Nordykes submitted a plan that only

7 authorized participants in their trade shows could use

I firearms and when those firearms were not in the actual

9 possession of those participants they were secured to

l-0 prevent unauthorized use, would that be a plan you,d

1_1_ seriously consíder approvÍng or recommending approval

L2 of?

1_3 A. We would forward ít to Countv Sheriff,s

L4 Department for review. In essence, the Fair Association

1-5 would not want to jeopardíze its operating agreement

L6 with t,he County of Alameda that requires the Fair

L7 Association to comply with all ordinances and laws.

L8 O. And one of those ordínances is the ordinance at

L9 issue here banníng the possessíon of firearms on County

20 property, correct?

2t A. That's correct.

22 O. Since this ordinance has been adopted and.

23 I'm referrÍng to in its amended form has anyone at

24 the County ever told you that the Nordykes could never

z5 hold. their .trade shows at the Fairground.s?

1_ 7\
They have not.

¿ Other than the one paint ball gun you mentioned

and the five or six aír soft guns you mentioned that

+ were present during the Outdoor & Sportsmen,s Shows,

5 have you seen any other guns or firearms whether or not

defined in the ordinance presenÈ during the Outdoor &

7 Sportsmen's Shows?

I A. Not that I recall.

v MR. PïERCE: I have no further cnrestions at

l_0 this Èime.




l4 O. Mr. Pickering, my name is Donald KíImer.

15 represent Russ and Sallie Nordyke.

t6 Have you ever had your deposition taken

l7 before?

1-8 A Yes, sir.

t9 o. On how many occasions? A rough estímate is

20 fine.

2L A. Close to ten.

¿¿ O. I see. Over the course of your career in

23 managing fairgrounds?

24 A. I spent L2 and a half years managing cities and.

25 the last. L2 years managing fairgrounds.

L 0. Okay. I just want to start with some foIlow-up

2 guestions that Mr. Pierce asked you.

3 You mentioned durinq a conversatíon we had

= prior Lo going on the record that there are Èhree active

5 campg'rounds on the faírgrounds? _,

6 A. Yes, sír.

7 O. These are people who come in wíth tents and

I moLor homes and RV's and set, up camp and. jusE enjoy the

9 fairgrounds?

l_0 A. Predominantly RV's associated with the shows

1_L taking place on the property.

l2 O. So you make these spaces available to the

13 promoters and the vendors. Is it also open to the

t4 public?

L5 A. It can be open to the public when it's not

t_6 being used by a show produced at the fairgrounds.

t7 O. Is Ít open to the public now?

1-B A. Yes, it would be. One of the three is open

i-9 now. One is under reconstruction.

20 O. One of the exceptions to the ordinance and

2l I'm going to refer you to Exhibit ¿ ís under,

22 - Sectiorr F-5,rr which says a person lawfully


23 transporting firearms or ammunition in a motor vehicle

24 or on a County road.

25 V,Iould that include, for instance, people who

l_ had had firearms for personal protection in their RV's?

¿ A. f would defer that to the County Sheriff's

3 Department to make that determination.

4 O. Have you made that inquiry to the County

5 Sheriff's Department?

6 A. f have not.

7 O. You mentioned in your testimony when Mr. Pierce

I was asking you guestions thaÈ the Scottísh Caledonian

9 Games had contacted you after the ordínance rlt¡aspassed?

L0 A. They did. speak with me, yes.

l_L O. Do you remember who the person was thaÈ talked

L2 to you?

L3 A. I don't remember the person's name. There are

t4 a number of Chieftains responsible for different parts

l_5 of the Scottish Caledonian Games. It more than likely

Iþ would have been a Chieftaín responsible for the

l7 pageantry display that included firearms.

l_8 o. Did they send you a letter?

L9 7\
Not that I recall.

20 a. So it was a telephone call or a meeting in

2t person?

22 A. Telephone caIl.

23 o. Did you take any notes during that telephone

24 call?

25 A. Not. that I recaIl, rfo.

Pa 30
l_ O. What was the substance of the conversation vou

¿ had with thís person?

3 A. To the best of my recollection, they asked me

4 if this ordínance applied to their historical

5 reenactment and I referred them to the County Sheri-ff's

6 Department and County Counsel.

7 They noted that County Supervisor Scott

I Haggerty had been an Honorary Chieftain of one of their

9 games and that they would speak with him directly as

1_0 well as talk wíth the County Sheriff,s Department and

1L CounÈy Counsel.

1"2 O. Was that the end of your involvement with this

L3 issue of how the ordinance affected the Caledonían

t4 shows?

L5 A. No.

1_6 O. What other involvement did you have wíth

l7 respecÈ to that?

L8 A. I received a call from Richard Wínnie and Eríc

L9 Chambliss representing County Counsel.

20 O. And what was the substance of that

2L conversation?

22 A. There was an inquíry as to what other

23 activitíes might take place at the fairgrounds where

24 firearms might be used.

¿> O. Vühat did you teII them?

ñ ^
.trd_ e 3 l -
l_ A. I reviewed hrith them the types of activitj-es

2 that take place at the fairgrounds. ï could not

3 d.etermine whether those activities would include

4 firearms or not.

5 I discussed the filming of TV commercials, the

6 filming of motions pictures, circuses, other shows that

7 take place on the fairgrounds.

I O. And what was their response?

9 A. Their response was that had been

l_0 approached by the Scottish Caledonian Games lookíng to

1_l_ see if there could be a potential historical reenactment

1-2 or pageantry exemption for what they do for their annual

1_3 August show.

t4 , O. Did that conclude your díscussions about Lhe

L5 Caledonian games and thís ordínance orwas there any

t6 further discussions with anybody?

L7 A. Only with my management sÈaff.

L8 o. Did you receive any letters or written

l-9 correspondence from the County about. the New Caledonian

20 Games and this ordinance, the issue with Lhís ordinance?

2L A. Not untíI I received the amended version of the

22 ordinance from the CounÈy.

23 O. Was there a cover letter specifically

24 referencing the New Caledonian Games that was includei

25 with this copy of the ordinance?

Pa 32
1 A. There was not.

2 0. Did the Scottísh Caledonian Games ever provide

a written plan as to how they would cgmply with the

4 ordinance?

5 A. Not to my knowledge.

6 O. Who was it that told you they were cleared to

7 have a show?

I A. Wel1, there's much more to their show than

9 theír display.

10 O. OkaY.

LL A. TheÍr battle scene reenacÈment.

l2 o. But did you, for instance, consult with the

t_3 Sheriff's Ðepartment?

L4 A. ¡lbsolutely.

l_5 o. Who did you speak to at the Sheriff,s

t6 Department?

l7 A. Lieutenant Knutsen. It may have been Sergeant

l_8 Knutsen at the time.

t9 O. And he specifically looked into the Scottish

20 games, the Caledonian Show, and t,hen got back to you

2t with an answer, rrYes, they could have a show"?

22 A. That's correct. There are many Sheriff

23 Deputies that participate ín the Scottj-sh Caledonian

24 Games due to t.heir Scottish heritage.

25 I believe Sheriff Plummer also supports a

e 3 3
l_ Scottish bagpipe band of Sheriff Deputies, so the

2 Sheriff DeputÍes have independent knowledge of the

3 activities of the scottÍsh caledonian Games at the

4 Fairgrounds.

5 O. Did you receive anything in from the

6 Sheriffs or the Sheriff,s Ðepartment saying that

7 caledonian shows will fit into the exception of the

I ordinance?

9 A. I díd not.

1_0 a. Now, with regard to the Sportsmen,s Show, you

i_l_ gave some testimony Èhat you made some specific

t2 inquiries to the sheriff's Department about air soft

l_3 guns and a paint ball gun. Any other specific

1 A

l_5 A. Not with regard to Èhe Sportsmen, s Show.

Iþ 0. Any other shows?

t7 A. Yes.

l_8 o. Can you please teII me what those were?

L9 A. Scottish Caledonian Games.

20 0. Oh, just them.

2L n
They desired to bring in a Hauwitzer type

22 cannon from Camp Parks, a military inst,allation in

23 Dublin. They wanted to include that in either Lheir

24 opening or closíng bag.pípe show

25 0. They wanted to fire it off?

Pa e 3 4
L A. That's correct.

z O. Did you refer them to the Sheriff's Department

3 or did you make the inguíry?

4 A. Both.

5 O. Vühat was the result of Èhat inquiry?

6 A. The first year, the Pleasanton Police

7 Department. asked that they not do it because that was

I followíng the year following g/ll in New York City.

9 The Pleasanton Police Department felt that that

l_0 loud of a percussion might generate phone cal1s to 91-l

l_l_ as to what was goíng on in the cornmunity, so they did.

L2 not fire a cannon that vear.

13 The next year, they did bríng in a smal1 cannon

L4 from Camp Parks conducted under Lhe fuII authority of

l_5 the military.

l6 O. I just want to get our dates correct. The New

L7 Caledonian Show usually occurs in August, I think?

1_8 A. Correct.

L9 O. And the events you described, September L1-th,

20 was weLl, actually it was September 1Lth, so that was

2L 2001. So it would have been the 2002 New Caledonian

22 Show?

23 A. Correct, 2002.

24 O. Just so \^re're cIear, ín 2002, Pleasanton Police

25 Department asked that there not be --

l_ A. A percussíon generated from a cannon.

z O. But, in 2003 there was?

3 A. ïn 2003 there was.

4 O. How about the show in

5 A. In 2005 there was, and f believe there may have

6 been in 2004. I don,t recaIl.

O. Are there antique shows that take place Ïrere at

I the Fairgrounds?

9 A. There are.

1_0 O. Do you know whether or not antigue firearms are

LL ever displayed?

1"2 A. I have not seen an anticrue firearm at the

t-3 Pleasanton Fairgrounds .

t4 o. So you have no personal knowledge if there

1_5 wag

t6 A. That's correct, nor has any of my staff

l7 reported that, to me.

L8 O. Do you know whether or not antíque fírearms

t9 excepted under the ordinance?

20 A. f do not know. T would refer that question to

2L the County Sheriff's Department.

22 O. hlas an inguiry ever made to the County

23 Sheriff's Ðepartment about firearms being an exception?

24 A. Not to my knowledge.

25 O. Did you ever inguire to the County and/or the

Pa e 3 6
1 Sheriff's Department if gun shows would be considered

2 exception to the ordinance under this Section No. 4?

3 A. Yes.

4 O. V[ho did you talk to?

5 A. Richard Vtinnie and Eric Chambliss.

6 O. What was the subsLance of that conversation?

7 First of all, Iet me retract thaL. lrÏhen did that

I conversation take place?

9 A. At the Èime thaÈ I receíved the amended

1_0 ordinance, I contacted County Counsel and asked for

Ll- their interpretation as to, ,tl¡lou1d Èhe gun show fit

l2 under these exceptions or not?'r

L3 0. Vühat did they tel1 you?

t4 A. Their response was that Èhey would need to see

t_5 a written plan, run it by the Sheriff,s Department and

T6 get an interpretation based on the components of that

l7 pIan.

1_8 A. Mr. Pierce had asked you a question that, "No

L9 one at the County told you that T 6c S could not hold a

20 show, I' and your response was, Do, nobody told you they

2T couldn't?

22 A. That's correct.

23 o. Did anyone teII you that they could hold

24 show?

25 A. Yes

Pa e 3 7
1 o. And who was that?

2 Richard frTinnie.

O. On how many occasions did he do that?

4 A. Several.

5 O. Can you please recount those for me and give me

6 approximate dates?

7 A. There 1¡¡ere roughly two verbal phone

I conversations in which Mr. v'Iinnie stated, yês, a gun

9 show could be conducted provided that there was a plan

l_0 in place that outrined how the show would. be conducted-

l_l_ wíthout possessíng firearms and ammunition as defined by

L2 the ordinance and that Mr. Winnie in the second phone

l_3 conversat,ion beIíeved that that might become the state

t4 of the art for future gun shows at the faÍrgrounds,

t_5 whatever this plan may look like

L6 O. That sounds like a pretty involved

a7 conversation.

l_8 How would it be possible for the new state of

L9 the art gun shows to be conducted without guns present?

20 MR. PIERCE: ObjecEion, cal1s for speculation,

2L but you could answer

22 THE WITNESS: I,11 answer as Èo what we talked

23 about in the phone conversation.

24 MR. KILMER: Absolutely

25 THE WITNESS: Specific suggestions related to

Paqe 38
1_ the internet, the display of firearms or ammunition via

2 the internet, the display of firearms or ammunitions off

3 site of the fairgrounds through technology on the

4 fairgrounds, a replica of firearms that might be

considered exempt under the ordinance so that somebody

6 could hold them in their hands, but Èhey would not be a

7 true firearm whether they were wood, rubber or

8 metal and maïI order business

9 Again, most of the d.iscussion revolved around

l_0 changing technologies. For example, Fairgrounds used to

LL have computer shows and we don'È any more because

t2 computer shows are passe. People buy the compuÈers

L3 through stores and over the internet.

l4 MR. KILMER: Q. And there was also the

l_5 August 23rd letter from Mr. Winnie. I'11 refer you to

t6 .E;Xlll_þl_tr l_.

l7 A. That's correct, referencing the original

1_8 ordinance before amended.

t9 MR. KILMER: Mr. Pickering, I'm going to show

20 you a copy and ï had prepared exhibits for you to

2t look at as well and Mr. Pierce has already pretty much

22 covered all of the correspondence but there was one

23 letter he left out, though, that I'm goíng Èo ask you to

24 idenEífy. Let's have this marked as Exhibit 9.

25 (Exhibit 9 marked for identification. )

Pa e 3 9
1 MR. KILMER: -Q. This exhibit is redundant of

z. a lot of exhibits that have already been admitted, but

there is only one additional letter in there that I

wanted to refer to and that's a December l-Oth, Lggg

5 letter.

6 Could you please look at that letter and Iet

7 know when you're done looking at it?

I A. Okay.

9 A. And this is a December L O t h l e t t e r addressed to

L0 T & S Trade Shows and ít,s also signed by Terri Eagan

l_l_ Thut, Events Coordinator?

t2 A. That's correct.

L3 O. And it's basically informíng the Nordykes of

t4 the balance due on their account and letting them know

l_5 that all of their 2000 dates have been released; ís that

t6 correct?

t7 A. That's correct.

l_8 MR. KILMER: Thank you. I,m going to show you

t9 a document I'11 have marked as Exhibit J-0.

20 (Exhibit l-0 marked for identif ication; )

2l MR. KILMER: Q. Take a look at this document

22 and let me know when you,re done looking at. ít.

¿5 A. Okay.

24 O. And this is an invoice generated. by the Alamed.a

25 County Fair Association and it,s dírected to T & S Trade

Pa 40
1 Shows. This looks like an invoice for mavbe theír

2 October show. Excuse me. It looks Iíke it,s the

3 November show or September show.

4 That would be aecurate, the September show.

5 The net invoice to the Nordykes is ç9,79O.50.

6 To the best of your recollection without having to

7 revíew your records, is that about the amount of revenue

I that the T & S Show gienerated for the County every time

9 it had a show?

1_0 A. Oh, it would have been more than that.

Ll_ O. How much more, if you could recaIl?

L2 A. WeII, shows also generate parking revenue and

L3 food reverfue.

t4 O. And all of that goes Èo the County?

l_5 A. None of it goes to the County.

t6 O. Excuse me, t.he Fair Associatíon.

t7 A. A port.ion of roughly 25 percent, of gross food

1_8 and beverage sales goes to the Fair Association.

l9 this point in time, wê had an independent contractor

20 operating the parking lots, so a percentage of the

2I parking revenue would have come to the Faír Association.

22 0. Do yor,r have in your mínd an estimate of the

23 amount of revenue that was generated per show by the

24 Nordykes including what they paid for rental and the

25 revenue generated for food and parking?

Pa 4L
L A. In l-999, Ry staff explained to me that Lhe four

2 gun shows produced by the Nordykes generated between

3 $80,000 to $100,000 in revenue to the Fai-r AssociatÍon.

That was not net. That was gross.

5 O. I understand. A:rd you understand. that the

6 Fairgrounds is not a party to this lawsuit?

7 A. To the best of my knowledge,'that,s correct.

O. Is there a 1aw firm that handles the

9 Fairground's Iega1 affairs?

10 A. There,s a variety of legaI counsel that is used

L1 based upon t,he issues.

l2 O. okaY.

13 A. For example, personnel claims, w€ would

L4 contract with an expert ín personnel law.

1_5 O. All ríght.

t6 A. Contract, land use, license and lease

t7 agreements.

l-8 O. okay.

L9 A. county counsel does not serve as counsel for

20 the Faír Assocíation.

2t O. Fair enough. That's where I was going anlrvray.

22 Thank you.

23 ï'm not asking for that advice. I,m just

24 asking if you sought any advice about this ritígation

25 and its impact on the Fairgrounds from any of these law

Pa 42
l- fÍrms?

¿ A. From our insurance carrier, Yês.

3 A. All right. Thank you. Your insurance carríer

or a law firm?

5 A. Oh, ï'm sorry. fnsurance carríer and. attorneys

6 representíng our insurance carríer.

O. Vühat guestions did you have for your insurance

I carrier?

9 A. The insurance carrier at the time when the

10 ordinance was adopted was representing the Faír

LL Association against a number of claims and a very large

t2 lawsuit from individuals that were ímpacted by the 1-998

l_3 shooting ín the carníval midway.

L4 O. That leads me to my next line. of quesÈionj-ng.

1_5 Before that, though, I do want to ask you a questíon.

L6 f'm not interested in whaÈ your salary is, but

l7 I'm interested if there is a component of your salary

l_8 that is generated by the profits generated by the

t9 Association or if you're on a straight salary?

20 A. There is no eguity participation at all.

2L o. So just straight salary?

22 A. That's correct.

23 MR. KILMER: Let's go off the record for

24 minute.

25 (Discussion off the record. )

Pa 43
MR. KILMER: Q. You had' mentioned earlier that

2 there was a shooting in the midway' That occurred

5 during the Annual County Fairt is that correct?

4 A. l-ggï Annual CountY Fair.

And you were not workíng here at that time?

5 O.

6 A. I was not.

So contrary to what sometimes ends up in the

7 O.

newspaper, which you are not responsible for, this


9 shooting did not occur at a gun show?

10 A. ThaE's correct.

Ll- o.And.therewasalawsuiÈfíledafterthe]-998

l2 shooting?

I5 A. There were many lawsuits fíIed after Èhe 1998

l4 shooting as well as insurance claims.

L5 o.Areyouawareofanyothershootingst.hathave

occurred at the Fairgrounds other than that incident?

l7 A. Not to my knowledge.

1_8 0.WastheFairgroundsnamedinthelawsuitthat

1_9 arose out of the L998 shootíng?

20 A. All of the lawsuits and claims, the Fair

2l .A.ssociation was named in to the best of my knowledge.

22 O. Do you remember the name of the firm that

23 defended the Fairgrounds?

24 A. Not off the toP of mY head.

25 O. If you know, and I concede this may be a 1ega1

Pa 44
L question, what r,tlas the theory for the Fairground's

2 tiability in that case?

5 MR. PIERCE: Objection, it caIls for a legal

+ conclusion.

5 THE WITNESS: I don't know what the legal

6, theory was. The claíms that were submitted were due to

7 tLre fact the incídent occurred on the Fairgrounds

I property and the Fair Associatíon was the custodian of

9 the property under a managiement contract with the County

1_0 of Alameda.

11 MR. KILMER: Q. Vühat was Èhe disposítion of

t2 the case? Did it go to t.rial or hras it settled?

13 A. Both. There were many cases. Some were

L4 settled by the ínsurance company. I believe l-8 ended up

.t_5 joÍning together for one they joined their litigatíon

_16 together into one tawsuit. It did go to trÍal. It did

L7 go through the appellate court as weII.

l_8 O. What was the result?

L9 A. The Fair AssociaÈion was found to have ímmuníty

20 for discretíonary 1aw enforcement decísions during the

2t run of the Annual Alameda County Fair.

22 O. So there was no liabíIity to the Fair

23 Association?

24 A That's correct

25 O. Do you know whether or not the person who díd

ñ -
Ed. e 4 5
1 the shooting was charged with the crime?

2 A. Yes, it was a separate court case.

3 0. Do you know the disposition of that case?

4 A. That went to trial. He was sentenced to prison

5 time.

6 O. Do you know how long gun shows have taken place

7 at the Fairgrounds? Obviously, f 'm asking a guest.ion

I that precedes your history, but if you know.

. Y
A. I do not know how long gun shows have taken

1-0 place at the Alameda CounEy Fairgrounds.

1_1_ O. Were they taking place before you got here,

L2 though?

l_3 A. Yes, they were. Roughly Èhree to four per

L4 year.

i-5 O. All right. You seem to have come in to your

L6 position here at the Fairgrounds just about the time

L7 this ordinance was passed and no more gun shows have

L8 Èaken pIace, but to t.he extent that you know, were the

t9 Nordykes good tenants?

20 MR. PÏERCE: Objection, vague and ambiguous as

2t to the term t'

22 MR. KILMER: O. Ðid they comply with theír

23 contracts, pay theÍr bil1s on time? Did they leave the

24 place in good order when thev were done?

25 A. I did have the opportunity to wítness two, if

Pa 46
1 not three, of tlre Nordyke, s gun shows on the property

¿ during 1999. To t,he best of my knowledge, they complied.

3 with the terms of their contract,.

4 O. Vüho has law enforcement jurisdiction over the

5 Fairground.s?

6 A. The County of Alameda Sheriff has ultimate

7 jurisdiction for law enforcement within the county of

I Alameda, to the best of my knowledge. llowever, the

9 Fairgrounds is incorporated into the city of pleasanton,

l_0 so the property is owned by the County of Alameda, but

l_1_ incorporated into pleasanton.

T2 O. Just so h¡e're clear, the Fairgrounds is County

l-3 property?

t4 A. The FaÍrgrounds is owned by the County of

15 Alameda, incorporated into the city of pleasanton.

1_6 a. Does the law enforcement jurisd.iction ever

t7 shift between events?

1_8 For example, is the City of pleasanton

L9 responsibre for Iaw enforcement most of the year, but

20 the sheriff's responsible for, for instance, the Annual

2t CounEy Fair?

22 Is there a sharing agreement like that or is

23 this something that the two law enforcement agencies

24 work out among themselves?

25 A. Yes.
l_ O. I deserve that answer. If you could explain

¿ how that works, if you know.

3 A. Absolutely, yes. The Fair Assocíation,s

management agreement with the county of Alameda reguires

5 the Fair Associatíon to use the County Sheriff,s

6 Department during the annual fair for on ground. security

7 and law enforcement purposes.

I Outside of the annual fair, the County

9 Sheriff's Department is actively involved wíth

l_0 activities that take place on the rairground.s since the

11 property is owned by the County of Alamed.a.

!2 Day-to-day 1aw enforcement issues and a number

13 of the year-round shows or activities that take place at

L4 the Fairgrounds are coord.inated with the pleasanton

t_5 Police Department. There are cert.ain shows in which

t6 both the Police Department and County Sheriff's

L7 Department are involved. in working through 1aw

l-8 enforcement plans and st.rategÍes ín add.ition to our

L9 cívilian contracEed security firm. That company is

20 named Security Eye.

2t O. And. they are a loca1 company?

22 A. They are headquartered in Livermore.

23 O. Do you have an opinion about what event or

24 events that take place at the Fairgrounds pose the

25 biggest securíty problem? If you d.o have an opinion,

Þ¡ 48
1 I'd like to know what that is.

2 MR. PIERCE: Objection, assumes facts not in

3 evidence.

THE WITNESS: The fíreworks show on thè 4th of

5 July.

6 MR. KILMER: e. What. are the concerns there?

7 A. The SherÍff,s Department will not support a

8 f ireworks show on the 4th of ,ruly at the Fairgrounds.

9 Therefore, our Ínsurance company would have

l_0 major guestíons íf we attempted. to conduct a firework

l- l_ display on the 4th of ,Ju1v.

t2 0. Is that because of safety issues or law

l_3 enforcement issues?

1 A
A. Both-

L5 O. Any other events that requÍre extraordinary

t6 security?

t7 A. Yes.

L8 O. What would be t.hose events?

t9 A. Presidentiar campaign stops, vice presidentíaI

20 campaígn stops, Governatorial campaigns and political

2A races typically require the use of metal detectors.

22 O. okay.

23 A. Not as a reguirement of Ehe Fair Association,

24 but as a requirement of their actual event. Ànd a

25 currently sitting president visíting the Fairgrounds.

Pa e 4 9
L O. Any cultural or holiday events that are a

2 particular security concern?

3 A. Yes.

4 A. What, would those be?

5 A. When the annual Afghan New year,s event moved

6, onto the Fairgrounds, they had had a troubled reputation

7 at other facilitÍes.

I Roughly 7,000 to B , O O OA f g h a n i s attend. that

event. They have now been here for four or more years

l-o and have had very successful events. The fírst event

L1- was a challenge.

t2 O. Any other events j-n that same category?

l_3 A. Any new show brings about a certain IeveI of

t4 concern depending on the t)rpe of a new show is, if it's

l_5 an event that has not been conducted here before.

i_6 o. Are you aware of any particular law enforcement

L7 concern that was raised regardíng the gun shows when

l_8 they h¡ere here?

L9 A. None to my knowledge.

20 O. I,m goíng to try and thread this guestion as

2t carefully as I can.

22 You received a lett,er from Mr. I¡üinnie on August

23 23rd, L999 as referenced by Exhibit r-. rs that the

24 first time you heard about an ord.inance that would. be

25 banning gun shows at the Fairground.s?

Pa e 5 0
1 MR. PIERCE: Objection, misstates the character

2 of the ordinance

3 THE VüITNESS: It is not the first time that I

+ heard that the County was considering the adoption of an

5 ordinance to address the possession of fi-rearms and

6 ammunition on County-owned property.

7 MR. KILMER: Q. When was the first time that

I you became avrare Lhat the CounLy wanted to implement

9 that policy?

1-0 A. In advance of the 1999 fair.

1_L O. How did you learn about it?

t2 A. ï was contacted by Supervisor Mary King.

l_3 a. And what was the conversati-on you had wíth her?

l4 A
She indicated that she had planned to introduce

L5 and announce an ordinance and that she wanted to do that

L6 the opening day of the 1999 fair.

L7 O. Did she te1l you why she wanted to do it then?

18 A. She indicated that because the shooting took

l_9 place in 1998, she felt an appropriate place to announce

20 the ordinance was the openíng day of the t999 fair at

2A the Faírgrounds.

22 A. And did she, in fact, make that announcement at

¿5 the ].ggg fair?

24 A. She did not.

25 O. Do you know why she didn't?

ñ^ e 5l-
1 A. r requested her not to do that in that we were

¿ attempting to recover from the shooting incidenÈ from

the l-998 fair and encouraged her to consider making her

announcement, perhaps, the cl0sing day of the fair so it

5 would not adversely generate med.ia attention to the

6 shooting from the prior year and give us the opportunity

7 to recover as best we could ín L999 from the impacts of

I the l-998 shooÈinq.

9 A. Díd she change her mind and. gÍve an

1_0 announcement at the end of the fair?

1_1_ A. Two days after the first phone caIl, she calred

L2 me back and indicated she would consider d.oing it the

l_3 closing day of the fair.

l4 O. Did she, in fact, make the announcement on the

l_5 closing day of the fair?

t6 A. r belíeve the announcement came one or two days

l7 after the faír closed and the announcement came out of

l_8 Downtown Oakland.

t9 O. Other t,han Ms. King trying t.o schedule this

20 announcement, díd she discuss with you any other aspects

2t of this policy she wanted to enacÈ into an ordinance?

22 A. Not that f recaI1. The gist of the phone

23 conversation was to seek my assi-stance in coordinating

24 the announcement of the ord.írrance opening d.ay of fair.

25 O. Other than Ms. King, did anyone else contact

Pa e 5 2
1 you from the county about this new policy t.he county

z wanted to enact?

3 A. I don, t, recaII.

O. Did anybody at all contact you about this

5 policy of banning guns on County property?

6 MR. PIERCE: Objectíon, vague as to time.

7 MR. KTLMER: Before t,he ordinance hras enacted.

I THE WITNESS: f don,t recaIl specífic

9 conversations with county offÍciars regarding the

l_0 ordinance before it was enacted, but there were many

l_1 conversations between me and the county sheriff,s

l2 Department related to the t-999 shooting, specifically

l_3 related to media inguiríes that would come at the Lggg

t4 fair as to what we were doíng to prevent a símilar

1_5 occurrence in i_999

t6 MR. KTLMER: e. What did you do in L999 to

L7 prevent a símilar occurrence?

18 A. We purchased walk-through metal detectors.

t9 O. AI1 right.

20 A. hÏe put together a media protocol. vrrehired. a

2l professíonal crisis communication consultant to coach us

22 behind the scenes. we expanded our on-ground public

23 address system. rve instituted crear beverage cups for

24 alcohol and soda and other d.rinks. we instituted a
25 program where the beverage cup for alcohol had a yell0w

Pa ê q ?
L logo on it and nonalcoholic drinks had a blue 1ogo.

2 That allowed law enforcement a beÈ.ter opportunity to

3 identify someone consuming alcohol, partÍcularly if they

appeared to be a mÍnor.

5 We put together extensive evacuation

6 pIans. I,,Iehad a number of law enforcemenL and safetv

7 servj-ce coordination meetings with County Fire,

I Livermore/Pleasanton Fire District, pleasanton polÍce

9 Department, Highway patrol, Caltrans, the Sheriff,s

10 Department, Èhe state of carifornia Department of Food &

l_1 Agriculture, Division of Fairs & Expositions.

t2 v'Ie also put together a tabletop exercise. All

1_3 of the individual agencies r mentioned as welr as

l4 members of our Fair Board and arl of our management team

l_5 participated in a tabletop disaster exercise. Those are

1_6 some of the technigues thaÈ we were developing to emproy

l7 at the tggg tair.

1_8 o. would it be fair to characterize those ster¡s

t9 you took as a success?

20 A. we did not have a shooting at, the tggg fair.

2L T ¡ ü ea r s o c l o s e d , r believe, at 5:oo or 6:00 on the 4th of

22 ,Iuly and díd not conduct a fireworks show.

23 o. And the county Fairs since rggg up through the

24 most recent one have also been a success or at least --

25 let me rephrase that

1 You haven,t had any firearm problems at any

2 County Fairs since 1999?

3 MR. PIERCE: Objection to fírearms problem.

ït' s vag'ue.

5 MR. KILMER: you can answer if you think you

6, can. Ot,herwise, I, 11 try and rephrase .

7 THE IVITNESS: f would not classify them as a

I firearm problem.

9 MR. KILMER: e. you haven,t had a shootíng at

1_0 the Fairgrounds during a County Fair sínce tggg?

l_1_ A. Not at the Alameda County Faír, but at oÈher

t2 fairs in California.

1_3 O. The metal detectors, are they still at the

L4 entrance to the Fairground.s?

l_5 A. They are. rn fact, ürê rent our metal detectors

t6 to six other fairs in the Bay Area.

t7 o. And they are used every time there is a public

t-õ event, not just for the county Faír; is that correct?

t9 A. They are predominantly used at the fair, but

20 Lhey are used at, some other events on the Faírgrounds

2L depending on the type of event.

22 0. For instance, wirl patrons have to pass through

23 the metar detector to go to the Hura show this weekend?

24 A. They will not. They did. have to pass ttrrough

25 metal detectors to go to the Hot rmport Days car show

1 three weeks ago.

2 O. Who makes the decísion about whether an event

3 requires the use of metal detectors or not?

4 A. The decision is jointly made between the Fair

5 Associatrion, law enforcement and the event Þromoter.

6 However, in some cases, the event promoter chooses to

7 use metal detectors.

I For example, in the case of political ralIies,

9 it is normally whoever is renting the property,

1_0 whichever political party, chooses to rent, the metal

t_1_ detectors.

L2 O. Do you have a set of criteria that you have

t_3 that you will reguire Èhe use of metal detectors for an

l4 event?

15 A. Depending on a hi_story of a particular show at

t6 other facilities.

t7 For example, when the Afghan New year,s Show

18 first ,came here and there had been weapons issues wíth

L9 them at other facilities, we dÍd requíre the use of

20 metal detectors.

2L O. In the discussions you had prior to the

22 enactment of the ordinance wíth representatives of the

23 county, were you asked about any 1aw enforcement issues

24 relating to gun shows?

25 A. I believe I was gueríed by the County Sheriff,s

e 5 6
l_ staff on my knowledge of gun shows at the orange county

2 Fairgrounds.

3 O. I¡üere you asked about the Nordyke shows at all?

= A. was asked if the Nordykes produced the show

5 at the Orange County Fairground.s and they d.o not..

6 O. Are you aware of any security issues

7 specifically related to the shows that the Nordykes put

I on?

9 A. No.

l-0 O. Are you aware of any safety issues specifÍca11y

11_ related to the shows that the Nordykes used to put on?

t2 A. No.

i_3 o. Do you know whether or not the Nordvkes híred

l4 their own private security for their shows?

15 A. They have indicated to me that they did provide

L6 security.

L7 O. Díd you have a way of verifying that?

1-8 A. v'Ie produce a pre-event t.abretop for most of our

t9 shows, whích involves 1aw enforcement, safety service,

20 medics, security Eye paÈrol, event promoter, âny major

2t sub-events that are taking place within an event, so

22 through the process of pre-show evaruatíons and planning

23 as well as post-show wrap-ups, those discussions wou.rd.

24 have taken place with our staff.

25 A. Do you know whether or not the Nordykes

Pa 57
1_ híred off duty sheríffs to provide security for their

z shows?

5 A. I do not know.

4 A. You said you vùere the Assistant Ðirector of the

5 Oranqe

6 A. The Deputy General Manager of the Orange County

7 Fairgrounds.

I O. And how long did you hold that position?

9 A. Five years.

i_0 O. Did you do similar work before that?

l_t_ A. I was involved ín city manag'ement for 1,2 years

t2 prÍor to that.

13 O. And was your work in city management at all

t4 paraIleI or similar to the work you're doing for the

1_5 Fairground?

L6 A. yes.

L7 a. And what would that involve?

l_8 A. Pub1ic safety, police, fire, construction of

t9 infrastrucÈure, roadways, police stations, fire

20 stations

2t o. For instance, lvere you managing events in that

22 sense?

z5 A. We cert,ainly had events in our parks. We had.

24 celebrations ín our parks. i¡rlealso íssued permits,

25 parade permits, event permj-ts, for very large festivals.

1 a. How would you characteríze the events that take

2 prace at the orange county Fairgrounds as opposed to the

3 Alameda county Fairgrounds? Are t,hey similar or are

4 there differences?

5 A. Yes.

0. That's another fair shot. What would be the

7 differences?

I A. The orange county Faírgrounds has in excess of

9 four mílIion patrons a year come to the property.

1_0 Alameda county Fairground.s has in excess of three

Ll_ million patrons a year coming to the property.

L2 The 20-plus day annual Orange County Fair wílI

l_3 have close to one million people come through during

l4 their annual fair event. The Alameda county Fair will

l_5 have in excess of 4oo, ooo patrons come through a l7-day

t6 fai-r each summer.

17 The largest amount of year-round. attend.ance at

18 the orange county Faírgrounds was generated. from t,he

l9 orange county Marketplace, which can have 2s to 2g,000

20 people every saturday and every sunday on an asphalt

2L parking Iot. The majority of patrons coming through the

22 Arameda county Fairground.s on a year-round basis are

23 comj-ng to 300 plus different shows.

24 o. All rÍght. Did the orange county Fairgrounds

25 al-so have gun shows, dog shows, antique shows,

l_ sportsmen' s shows simílar to the Alameda Countv

2 Fairgrounds?

A. I don't recalI a sportsmen,s show, but yes, the

= other shows are similar. The other major difference is

5 that the Orange County Fairground.s ís a state agency

6 fair known as a District AgriculÈural Assocj-ation,

7 whereas we are a nonprofi_t corporation.

I O. Other than the August 23rd, J,999, letter from

9 Mr. lüinnie and the two copies of the ordinance, have you

L0 received any oÈher wriÈten material from t,he County

t- l_ having to do with this ordinance?

T2 A. Not that f reca1l.

l_3 O. Did the County ever ask you td post notice of

L4 the ordinance on the Fairgrounds?

15 A. Not that I reca1l, rro.

T6 a. I noticed when f walked in today there Ís a

l7 blue sign on Èhe post at your gat.e here and-it talks
i - !

l_8 about restricÈions on Èhe Fairground.s.

l9 For instance, there, s motor scooÈers and

20 skat,eboards and there's actually also a prohibition of

2T firearms. Do you know when that sign was posted?

22 A. T do not. I could find out, but I don,È know


24 O. Was it here when you started. working here?

25 A. It may have been. f don, t know.

l_ O. There are other notíces posted at the

2 Fairgrounds, though, for instance, reg'ulating alcohol,

3 smoking, dogs and parkirg; is that correct?

4 A. That,s correct. Care and cust.ody of the

5 property has been delegated to the Fair Association.

6 O. Has Èhere been any boat shows here at the

7 Fairgrounds?

I A. Yes.

9 O. And car shows?

l-0 A. Yes.

11 O. Home shows?

t2 A. Home and Garden Showsr 1r€s.

1_3 O. Dog shows?

t4 A. Big DeI Val1e Dog Show.

L5 O. And I am partial to cat,s, but cat shows, too, f

L6 imagÍne?

l7 A. There have been cat shows.

l-8 0. Computer shows are one thíng that have gone

t9 away?

20 A. There are computer elements of a number of

2t shows now, particularly wíth web technology, but the

22 original compuÈer show that traveled the fair circuit

23 does not exist any more.

24 O. Do you do any marketingi research about the

25 types of people that will attend different types of

Pa e 61-
1_ shows here at the Fairgrounds?

z A. Yes.

3 O. What kind of research is that?

4 A. Vüehave explored the possibility of building a

5 new l-00,000 square foot exhibition haIl, so we hired

6 several different companies Lo do market analysis,

7 market saturat,ion in the Bay Area, ilCould such a

I faciliËy generate enough revenue for debt service and

9 operational costs? r'

l_0 O. Any other kind of marketing research?

l_L A. Yes.

t2 O. What kind would that, be?

l_3 A. v,ïe do demographic studies rerated to our annual

t4 fair patrons. we do exit surveys. we do phone call

1_5 surveys. We,ve done focus groups.

t6 O. Has any of this research ever related to qun

L7 shows?

L8 A. Not specifically. In the case of the larse

t9 building, j,"r"
they took a look at what types of shows

20 beÍng produced in the Bay Area market or what tlpes of

zt shows would like to make enLre into the Bay Area market,

22 something smaller than Mosconí center, but bigger than

23 t-he buildings we have available now.

24 O. Who was making that Ínguiry?

25 A. Rod Markin & and Associates.

L O. Who are thev?

2 A. They are a professional consulting firm that

3 develop economic impact studíes for fairs and other

+ sports facilíties and entertainment venues throughout

5 the United States.

6 O. Would it be fair to say you have a 1ot of

7 experience, professional experience, with regard to what

I kind of events might be successful and whj-ch ones might

9 be not as stríke that.

l_0 Would you say that you have guite a bit of

1L professional experíence with regard to what type of

t2 events would be well-attended and what type of events

L3 might not be wetl-attend.ed at the Fairqround.s?

L4 A. There are some events that we encouragie not to

take place because we do not believe they will generate

t6 att,endance.

L7 For example, there hras a new women's event that

1_8 they tit,led. themselves in such a way that we felt the

t9 public wourd have no clue what that event would be.

20 They had one show and went bankrupt.

2t O. f see. Any other t14>e of

22 A. There are shows that we would not aIIow to come

23 to the property. For example, a11-night shows.

24 O. All right.

25 A. Raves.
1- O. All riqht.

2 A. We don,t. alIow raves. We do not allow

5 all-night dance parties, partícularly for teenagers.

4 O. All right. I guess piercing and tattoo shows

5 might be out, too?

6 A
Not necessarily.

7 O. All right.

I A. f 've done Harley shows. I' ve done Easy

9 shows. Body art and piercing has been part. of those

L0 shows. fÈ's occasionally parÈ of the car shows as welI.

11 o. All right. Fair enough. Ðo you have an

t2 opinion as to whether or not people would attend a boat

L3 show at the Fairgrounds if there were no boats present?

1 A
MR. PIERCE: Objection, caIIs for speculation.

15 MR. KILMER: I,m asking if he has an opinion.

t6 THE WTTNESS: f d o n ' t know. I web surf to look

l7 at boats onÍ

18 MR. KILMER: e. yeah, but I think my question

t9 was a bit more specific. Ðo you think the publÍc would

20 attend a boat show knowing that there would noÈ be boats

2L present?

22 A. I don,t know

23 O. All right. Do you think people would attend a

24 car show knowing there would. be no cars present?

25 MR. PIERCE: Same objectíon.

Pa e 6 4
1- THE WITNESS: Agiain, it depends on how__€he show

¿ is produced. There are no homes at the home show.

3 MR. KILMER: e. Fair enough. Ðo you think

= people would atLend a dog show if there were no dogs?

5 A. It depends on what they were looking for.

6 O. So if people were actually going there

7 expecting to see boats and there were no boats, they

I would be disappointed?

9 A. I would be disappointed if I went anywhere

l_0 expecting to see somet,hing and ít wasn, t there.

1L O. All right. Fair enough. So is there any

L2 reason to think people would atÈend a gun show if there

13 were no g'uns present?

l4 MR. PIERCE: Same objection, speculaÈion.

l_5 THE V\IITNESS: In my experience, there are

L6 components of different shows that drive attendance.

1-7 MR. KILMER: e. And guns would be a critical

18 component of a gun show to drive attendance?

L9 A. There are hunters that attend the sportsmen, s

20 show that does not have guns because they are looking

21 for other t14>e of gun-related. paraphernalia.

22 O. But thaÈ would be people att,ending a huntíng

23 show?

24 A. Sportsmen's Expor fês.

25 O. Right. Arrd people an advertised gun

Þa e 6 5
1 show wourd probably expect to see guns present, wouldn,t

2 they?

3 MR. PIERCE: Same objection.

4 MR. KILMER: e. you could answer if you think

5 you can.

6 A. If they had been to a gun show that had guns

7 present and it was the same promoter, Lhey would more

I than likely be anticipating the same type of merchandise

9 that they had experienced. in the past.

l_0 O. Do you have an opinion about whether or not

1l- this ordinance was d.rafted with the specific intent of

t2 banning gun shows?

1_3 A. f do not.

l4 O. Are you aware that, there was a 1awsuit

15 involving the banni-ng of gun shows at the santa crara

t6 County Fairgrounds?

l7 A. Yes.

18 O. How do you know about that 1awsuit?

t9 A. f believe I was still at the Orange County

20 Fairgrounds when that was taking pIace. r believe

2t something similar took place at the LA County

22 Fairgrounds at some point in t.ime

23 o. You stated in your earlier testimonv that in

24 1999 you installed metal detectors at the ent.rance to

25 the Fairgrounds and that they are being used. for every

e 6 6
1 County Fair and some other events as we1l.

2 Do you know whether or not any weapons have

3 been confiscated. at the

4 A. Yes, they have.

5 O. And were there arrests made?

6 A. We have had arrests at eventsr 1r€s.

7 O. No. I mean, were there arrests made for trying

I to bring the weapons onto the County property?

9 A. The typical weapon which we would confiscate

l-0 would be knives that exceed the County,s three-inch

L1_ blade under the county ordinance or under the county

L2 Sheriff's Department guidance.

l_3 There are indivíduals that have attempted to

L4 walk through the metal detectors with a firearm in Èheir

1_5 possession.

16 I belíeve each and every one of Èhose

I7 incidents weII, all except one of those incídents

l_8 ínvolved off-duty law enforcement personnel with a

L9 permit to carry a concealed weapon and we do have a

20 protocol in place should they choose to continue onto

21, the property with a concealed weapon.

22 A. All right.

23 A. 'They have t,o check in

with the Sheriff Deputy,

24 Lhe Sheriff Deputy keeps a 1og and advíses them --

25 encourages them not Ëo consume a l c o h o l .

Pa e 6 7
1 VIe did have a cowboy type entertainer who had

¿ replica of a pistol in his duffel bag as part of his

3 regalia. As he attempted to walk through the metal

detector, the metal detector went off. As they opened.

5 his bag, they saw his pistol. They didn't know íf it

6 \^tas a replica or not, so it became an immediate law

7 enforcement issue.

I O. Is that the other incident,, the one incident

9 you saíd did not result in an arrest?

l_0 A. None of the ones f mentioned resulted in an

1_t_ arrest.

L2 O. A1I right. Are there any incidents that have

l_3 resulÈed in an arrest?

1,4 Let me narrow the focus of the cruestion. Do

15 you know whether or not there have been any arrests

L6 pursuant to the ordinance for bringing a firearm onto

L7 the Fairgrounds?

L8 ' A- There have been no arrests, to the best of my

L9 knowledge.

20 O. Does the Fairgrounds have any facility for

2t storing firearms on the premises?

22 A. If you could define that for me.

23 O. Are there, for instance, âfly vüeapons lockers aE

24 the entrances?

25 A. Nó- There are hording cells that the sheriff

L uses duri-ng the annual fair, but to my knowledge they

2 are not used to contain weaponry.

3 A. Now, you mentioned earlíer in your testimony

that you're the sole employee of the Fair Association?

5 A. Correct. Excuse me, Èhe Fair Board.

6 O. So there are other employees of the Fair

7 Association?

I A. Of the corporation, that,s correct.

9 O. And those would be the staff here and the

L0 grounds keepers and the custodial workers?

Ll_ A. lVe have roughly I_40 fuII-time equivalent

L2 positions.

l_3 O. And. they are all employees of the Assocíation?

L4 A. Under the terms of our bylaws and articles of

L5 incorporation, they are.

L6 O. Do you know whether or not any steps were taken

t7 to inform those employees that they could no longer

l_8 bring firearms or ammunition onto the Fairground.s after

L9 this ordinance was passed?

20 A. I'm not ahrare that anv employees were bringing

2t firearms or ammunition onto the Fairgrounds in advance

22 of this ordínance.

¿5 O. ?[as there ever a memo generated after the

24 ord.inance was passed. telling employees, ,ryou couId. no

25 longer bring f irearms onto the property'r ?

Pa 69
L A. Not to my knowledge. We conduct quarterly

¿ safety meetings with alr of our employees in compliance

3 with osHA regulations. tve also do our employee of the

4 guarter awards and we do tailgate safety meetings at the

same tíme and all of the employees would have been

6 briefed on this new ordinance.

7 O. So would that be documented in an agenda for

I one of these meetings, for instance?

9 A- Probabry not. The agenda doesn't go into that

10 level of detail.

1L O. Who conducts these safety meetings?

L2 A. A variety of Índividuals participate, myself,

L3 any number of our six department heads; vicki Hunter,

L4 who is our Human Resources offieer, depending on what

L5 we're discussinq.

t6 0. I want to refer you to Exhíbít 3. That,s the

l7 sept,ember 7tr}: letter from you to Russ and sallie asking
l_8 for a written pIan.

L9 Were there any other let,ters Iíke this

20 generated to any other promoters during thís time

2L period?

22 MR. PIERCE: Objection, vagiue as to "lÍke

23 this - 'r

24 MR. KILMER: e. Was there ever any other

25 letters reguestíng a wrítten ptan from any promoters

L how they would comply with Alameda Ordinance 0-2OOO-t_L?

2 A. Not to my knowledge.

3 O. So your Èestimony ís that only the gun show

4 receíved a letter of this type?

5 A. Specific to this ordinance.

6 O. okaY.

7 A. A,nd thaL was due to the Nordyke,s telephone

I conversation with me indicating that they did not

9 believe they could comply with the ordinance.

l_0 O. Do you have a standard contract with a1I of

t_l_ your promoters and exhibitors now?

t2 A. We have IÍcense ag:reements, correct.

13 O. Ðo those license agreements contain a provision

t4 reçriring compliance with this ordinance?

15 A. Yes. It requires complíance wíth all

t_6 ordinances, laws, rules and regulat j-ons.

l7 O. Does t,he license ag'reement specifÍcalIy

l_8 reference this ordinance?

t9 A. No.

20 O. Are the promoters and exhibítors given notice

2L of this ordínance?

22 A. If they reveal to us thaÈ they are planníng on

23 having a firearm as part of their show, y€s, they would

24 be advised of it.

25 O. But there is no policy or practice for doing

l- that wi-th all exhibitors or all shows?

2 A. They are not given a copy of all fire

3 ordinances for fire codes or fire lanes. they are noÈ

4 given a copy of all ordinances as to how their

5 electrical eguipment should be set. They are inspected

â, to Èhe County standards.

7 O. But most people know that they have to comply

I with Federal and state 1aws. very few people know that

9 there may be a county ordinance forbidding possessíon of

L0 a gun, so it's somewhat of an unusual ordinance, isn, t

l_t_ ir?

t2 A. There are many county ordínances that we

l_3 enforce that may be different than state or Federal Iaw,

T4 partícurarly when it comes to health and safety and food

l-5 services.

1,6 MR. KTLMER: ï need to take a break to qo to

t7 the rest room.

L8 (Brief recess taken. )

l9 MR. KILMER: e. I believe that Mr. pierce may

20 have asked you this guestion, but I just want to get

2A clarification,

22 Referring to Exhibit No. 4, the current

23 ordÍnance, do you have an opinion as to whether or not

24 the gun shows as the Nordykes had historically conducted.

25 them would fit into any of the exceptions listed in

Pa e 7 2
1 Section F of the ordinance?

2 MR. PÏERCE: Objection, calIs for a lega1

5 conclusion.

4 THE WITNESS: I do not know. Any plan that

5 they would submÍt to me, I would submit it to the County

6 Sheriff's DepartmenË and County Counsel for revíew of

7 compliance with t.he County ord.inance.

I MR. KILMER: Q. So you would see yourself

9 prímarily as a conduit, not rea1ly making the decísion

l_0 at all?

l_t_ A. WeIl, if somebody came onto the property and we

L2 saíd, trThe Fire Code reguires a 2}-foot separation

l_3 between your Èwo portable trailers, r' and they said., rVüe

t4 don't believe that it does. V,Iehave a d.if f erent

l_5 interpretation,rt we would turn that over to the county

t6 Fire Department.

l7 The same thíng on materials of tent fabric.

L8 Vühen different promoters bring in different tent

l9 fabrics, ür€ refer Èhem to the county Fire Department to

20 make sure they have fíre clearance on the fabrics.

2t O. For instance, if the Nordykes had submitted a

22 plan regardless of what t.hat plan would be wou1d.

23 you review the plan and t.hen pass it on to the Sheriff,s

24 Department with a recommendation one way or the other or

25 would you simply pass it on?

Pa e 7 3
1_ A. I would simply pass it on because there's been

2 ongoing litigation between the Nordykes and. the county.

3 O. And you would abide by whatever d.ecision the

4 Sheriff's or the County made with regard to the gun

5 show?

R, A. Under the terms of our contract, \^¡e are

7 required t.o comply with all ordinances and. it would be

I awkward for us to re-interpret an ordinance that the

9 County adopted.

1_0 O. fn other words, if the County turned to you and

L1_ said, trThe Nordykes look like they are putting on a

t2 theatrical production. co ahead and ret them have their

l_3 shows,I' you would say, "Okay, finer'?

l4 A. I would say, 'rpuL it in writínç[. "

l_5 O. But you would make sure the County put, it in

16 writing for you?

l7 A. Absolute1v.

L8 o. You menttorr"u ín your earli-er test,imony that if

t9 you thought any particular show might include a firearm

20 component that you would raise thaL issue in pranning

2L the event.

22 Other t,han the Gun Show, the New Cated.onían

23 show, the sportsmen's show, and we'll go ahead and ad.d

24 Antique show to that, are there any other events that

25 fa1l into that category that you would presume there

Pa e 7 4
1 might be firearms and you want to brj_ng that to their

z attentíon?

3 MR. PIERCE: Objection to the question in so

+ far as the Antíque Show. That misstates the testimony.

5 MR. KILMER: I'11 withdraw the Anticrue Show


7 THE I/üITNESS: For example, we hire a fair time

I entertainer. ÌVe have, what we calI, the four horsemen

9 who d.ress up like a cowboy on a horse, but the horse is

10 actually part of their costume. If I were to notice

l_1 that they had a pistol in a holster, we would have them

t2 immedÍately and r have had Èhem immediately go the

13 sheriff's Ðepartment and have the sheriff verify that

t4 it's a replica and it has no firing capacity.

15 MR. KILMER: e. Fair enough. Any other event,

l-6 you could think of?

l7 A. hlell, certaínIy polítical ra1líes when they

L8 híre privat,e security that wÍIl have f irearms. lrle

t9 request that they go to t,he pleasanton police Department

20 and/or County of Alameda Sheriff,s Department for

2t verification thaÈ they have proper permits for those

22 weapons.

23 For example, a gover¡ror political ra11y, from

24 time to time, in addítion to State po1íce and Highway

25 Patrol, Èhey may hire private-armed securíty

Pa e 7 5
1 O. All right.

¿ A. An exampre wourd. be a concert during fair time

3 whereby Mya was here and she had armed security. That

4 armed security had. to check in with the county.' sheriff,s

5 Ðepartment and show a permi_t for their firearms.

O. okaY.

7 A. This last year was Raven Simone from rrThat,s So

B Raven. r' she had tü¡o armed security with firearms in

9 their fanny packs and they were required to check in

L0 with the sheríff's DeparÈment for verificat,ion that they

l_L were properly licensed and permitted to have those

l2 weapons.

1_3 o. You mentioned t,hat the Fairgrounds has its own

t4 private securiÈy company or firm.

1_5 A. We do not have a company. We contract.

l6 O. okaY.

L7 A. we just, issued. a Reguest, for proposals this

t_8 week. Every so many years we competitively bid

t9 different contracts.

20 O. What training is provided to those security

2t guards with respect to this ordinance?

22 A. A successful bidder wil1 have to províd.e State

23 of california Guard cards and certification that they

24 have been officially trained and hold. current

25 certification in the State of California.

1_ a. I'm going to refer you again to Exhibít 4,

2 which is the ordinance. For example, there is an

3 exception to the ordinance

4 A. Yes.

5 o. under F-3 for a person holding a permit to

6 carry a firearm issued pursuant to penal Code Section

7 ]-2050.

8 A. Security Eye in advance of each annual fair

9 brings all of their personnel together who will be

l-0 working at the annual fair and the sheriff,s Department.

1_L brings ín a special instructor to go through with each

L2 of the Security Eye personnel how to man and how to

l-3 staff the metal detectors and. what to do if they come

L4 across a fírearm, what would be considered a valid

15 permit or not.

1_6 Any fírearm that comes through a metal d.etector

t7 has to be immediately that indívíd.ual ís immedíateIy

l_8 detaíned until such time as a sheriff Deputy can come

t9 and make personal contact, so security Eye would not be

20 asking them, trl,et,s see a copy of your

2t O. So Èhe protocol is for them to get a peace

22 officer involved. and then they make the determination?

23 A. We have Sheriff, s deputies at all of our

24 admission gates.

25 MR. KILMER: Fair enough. Let,s take a qþÍck

Pa 77
l_ break.

2 I just want to revíew my complaint, and your

3 answers real quick and t,hen r think r might be

4 (Brief recess taken. )

5 MR. KILMER: e. Mr. pickering, you mentioned

6 off the record that sometímes graduation ceremonies for

7 Sheriff's deputies occur here at the Fairgrounds; is

I that correct?

9 A. That,s correct.

L0 O. On average, how many tímes do those ceremonies

LL occur per year?

t2 A. Perhaps once Ín the last five or six years.

L3 MR. KILMER: Al_I ríght. I have no further

1 A

1_5 MR. PTERCE: I just have a couple of

1,6 folIow-ups.




20 O. With respect to the Scottish giames, are you

2L aware that anyone other than an aut,horized. particÍpant

22 in the scottish games has used a gun during the scottish

23 games?

24 A. I'm not aware of anyone eIse.

25 t2. Are you avrare whether or not there,s ever been

Pa 78
1 any gun Ieft. unsecured when not in the immed.iat.e

2 possession of an authorized participant in the scottish

3 games?

4 A. There has been no allegations of that nature

5 that have come Èo my attention.

6 O. My final question is, you stated., I believe,

7 that Exhibit 3 was the only letter you had sent to

I the operator of an event on the Fairgrounds reguesting a

9 pIan, but I just want to make sure I,m c1ear.

10 You did ask the Scottísh Games to submit a plan

l_i_ prior to the amendment of the ord.inance? you just

L2 didn't send them a letter asking for the plan?

t_3 A. I believe the ordinance had. been adopted, but

L4 was not yet effective, in effect, during that particular

l_5 scot,tish Games, but we brought to their attention that

L6 that ordinance would be in effecË for their next year, s

t7 game and that, they would need to explaín to us how they

l_8 could comply to that ordinance.

L9 O. Okay. you didn't send Èhem a l_etter sayíng

20 that? That was a verbal conversation?

2L A. It was whíIe they were here during theír

22 show.

23 a. But you didn't send them a letter?

24 A. I did not send them a 1etter.

25 MR. PIERCE: I have no further cnrestions.



3 o. Has the scottish games ever submítted. a writcen

4 plan about how their show will comply with the

5 ordinance?

6 A. They went to the County and had. the ordinance

7 amended and the Countlr Counsel and County Sheriff has

I assured me that t,hey do, in fact,, comply with the

9 ordinance as amended-

L0 MR. KILMER: Nothing further.

l_L (Discussíon off the record. )

l2 MR. PIERCE: I propose t.hat we fol1ow the

i_3 procedures in Rure 30 of the Fed.eral Rures of civil

l4 Procedure, which will be that the reporter will prepare

l_5 a Èranscript of your testímony and wirr provide iÈ to

l6 Mr. Pickering. Mr. pickering wíI1 have 30 days to

L7 review the transcript and. make any changes to the

i_8 original and will notify the court reporter if any

t9 changes have been made and they wirl be incorporated

20 into the Lranscript, by the courL report,er.

21, I, as the noticing attorney, will keep the

22 original of the deposit,ion transcrípt in the condition

23 that it will be usable and ï will make it available to

24 Mr. Kilmer upon reasonable request.

25 ff for any reason the origÍnal becomes

1 destroyed, a certified copy may be used in its place.

2 MR. KILMER: So stipulated.

(Discussion off the record. )

+. THE REPORTER: V,IouId you like a condensed

5 transcript, an index or an Ascii?

6 MR. PIERCE: I think an index would be he1pfu1,

7 yes.

I THE REPORTER: titrould you like a copy?

9 MR. KILMER: T,11 order a copy and I would like

10 an r_ncex.


L2 (Whereupon the deposition conclud.ed at

l_3 approximately L2ztt p.m. )


1-5 (llo stipulation being entered to the contrary,

L6 the witness shaIl have 30 d.ays after the

L7 completion of the transcription of the

t_8 foregoing deposition within which to revíew,

T9 correct and sign the original of said

20 transcript; and thereafter, the original

2L Eranscript will be forwarded by the court

22 reporter to MR. PIERCE,S office, to be by them

23 mainÈained j-n a sealed cond.ition pursuant to

24 Code until further order of the Court.)

t_ I hereby declare under penalty of perjury that

2 r have read the foregoing deposÍtion transcrj-pt and. have

3 noted thereon any comments, changes, corrections or

4 addÍtíons r feel are necessary to accurately reflect my

5 ansl^Iers to the guestions propounded therein to the best

of my knowledge and belief.

Signed at on















Page 82
¿ ) ss-
5 On this day of before
, -,
6 rfl€,
, a Notary
7 public in and for the state of carifornia, d.uLy
I commissioned and sworn, personally appeared

l- l-

1-2 known to me to be the person whose name is subscribed.

13 to the within deposition, and. acknowledged. that they
1-4 have read, corrected.'rnd. the same
t l

1"6 rN vÍrrÌ{Ess IÀII{EREOF,r have hereunt,o set my hand, and.

L7 affixed my seal t,he d.ay and. year first above written.

' t v







I-, Ho11y D. Hensyel, a licensed, Certified

5 shortand Reporter, duly qualified. and certified as such

6 by the State of California, do hereby certify:

7 That prior to being examined, the witness

I named in the foregoing deposition was by me duly

9 affírmed to testify to the truth, the whole truth, and

10 nothÍng but the truth;

1_l_ That the said depositiorl r¡asby me recorded

t2 stenographically at the time and prace first herein

i_3 mentioned; and. the foregoing pages constitute a fuIl,
l4 Lrue, complete and correct record of the testimony given
15 by the said wítness;

1"6 That I am a disinterested. person, not being in

t7 any way interested Ín the outcome of said action, nor
l_8 connected wíth, nor related to any of the parties in
L9 said action, or to theír respective counsel, in any
20 manner what,soever.

2t ïN VüITNESSVüHEREOF,I have hereunto set my

22 hand rhis AàJ- day or ny,^Mll , 2oos.


Page 83


5 I, HOLLY D. HENSYEL, a Certified Shorthand Reporter

6 in the State of California, License N o . 1 O 5 O Bh e r e b y

7 certify that the foregoing transcript is a true and

I corcect copy of the original deposition transcript

containing t.he testimony of RICK K. PICKERING, given

10 under oath on NOVEMBER3 , 2OOS.

Lt_ Dared rhis Ð nfLday or ÑWr^tll¡, 2005.




1_5 NO. l_0508










Page 84
CertifiedShorthandand Video Reporters
Main Bookkeeping
and Calendaring
251 WestJackson Street. postOfficeBox362
. (209) ss2-93s2 FAX(209) s32-s362
(800) 347-218s
NOVFìÍBER22, 2005




You now 'haveanopporbuitypursuæt tüscivil

1o ÇodeofProcsftrc tp lwburthe hæsorþtof yourd€positioü
abiwemctt€rwi&io-3o-dcys¡iøtomaftemyadditions*o*nroti*lyoodä;ä-õ, itr tåe
bsfûr€aNotûypuuilffimc" mdtosigqthedç,"sirioû
i"f.{p*trtb. cioil cø""fno"oirr. toprovidethatshouldypufonauyrenson
rwieryandsþyourdepositionqd¡rlfolh, not
aboveliæ, itwillbeik@çd nie"rdtyyd ol.t*ã; m¿çân'beusd*tnorg
sügnÊd andappreved byyou
Acc@ingþ' ty- . óncuu¡na zi ' zoo5
seeledmnditiooto &u upptop -rj-oTotrïrüiufonrs¡düeotiginaltræsÉrÞtfu a
ftrtbero¡aterof úe court
Ifyou *ish 1orcviervmdcorrcotandsþ yourdepositiø,i *ry * d*
ir ;""irry rhosecheck
markedbelosn "rîóijfu"¿*e
- ua5roallus7 daysin advmceÛosetw ro *ppoinheuf to rsview yorrr
¡¡¡You tauscrÍptbçfûrça Notarypublicin
, xx Yoümry revi€'w¡ copyútainedtbroughycrur 1 alton¡syandbecaaaôuise rtis otgcehy letterof ooycorrectirxsor
. additiorcyonmaywishtomelce.
_You nry reviewúe encloseit cffriûÈ{:gey, CONSTILïyOuR. Á.TïORNEY¡F yOt¡RU pARTy,
yourconunflús ontheenelosedtist, A mnk
sigtrthe usr üd¡eturnrhetistintheeaclosed_¡"uaoi"iaad&essedøvelope.
', Youm¿vrwieçv
t**tpt, coNsìtli-foun nrtoRhiEy pARTy,
linrctümughthe wordsycnrwishto
fu ?ouru ¿ &aw¡
ch{ng;,tebg ore¡dnot tom¡keúe *igi*l*r"d_,*rudrtle, ddffiúltyuriteyour
comm€rüs sbovsüe s'iol€Nrw-ord+ page*. ufy
fign nenarfof p*.i"qr-;ãrsrur; aË;öd to theaddress
üe etolosedslaryd addrÞsæd enrreþe. V* *oul¿ *t n t" #üruo*-to ûfhing bütyorumswers. i'disated .cau or
yolrrcotm€ûtsonthee'nclosedlist or yoo make
tignthelist aadftetanseiptatrschthelisrn*"lt"iJru
w -.! sv+' v¡ u @ositionandmailitintre
. enclosed eavelo¡le,
Dü€to theupcomingtiayarbitutiorldare,pleesçrespmdby mailingyow
uy , or forinsusrcepyby- - ,- . ,:. _ po w9 am conv€yyouroomest
ÚaitimoryÛo¡11souûselin üræ. If ]ry aee{to nake ö*"g@
pi"rrË*t ø }Ðür{üûrr€y.


cc. AII Couosel
Job# 5ggg

505-1 "S" Street Main Street#1 39 '

40108Hiehwav49 505 WestWhittier.Avenue 2847 North "C" Street
Highway 49, Suite 232 Manteca,CA 95336 Suitet-'lg' Trary,CA 95376 Merced,CA.95340
Jackson,C/.95642 Oakhurst,CA93644:.
Sonora, Catifornia95370


Dear Sin

f havereceived , ¡cviewþ the ORIGINAL-COPY- of the tanscript ofmy dçostion-

( ) I have¡eadit and.sigrred
it underpenaltyofpet'ury andam retunringit herewithwith no correctíonsfo bcnoted.

( ) I havç readit and signeilit underpenaltyof perjtrryandamrehrningthe kanscriptherewithwifh my corrections


( ) I havereadit a¡d im sr¡brnittinque cogec$-9ns listedbelow,andI fiuther certifyunde,rpenaltyofpqrjury that

, Subjectto samecgrrections,saidtranscriptis anclcorrcci,to thebestof -y tnoú"Ag".





OF: nrcr x. prcrsnrNc

3, 2OO5



JobNumber 5OBB




( ,
vrlot/ ty.J5 t7: ll 925-426-7699 A-A'IEDACOI¡.ITVFAIR PAGE ø4

llt .OakStreet,Suft€46g.Oaktârrd,
-.-'-fu* e4ø12-aZS6 4IçHAFDE, WNNI€
(6t0)272-0700 CouNffcouNsEL


RichardK. plckerlng,
e -oÕ
t q
4501Pleasanton Avenue Ë ?i¿tcerinq :-
Pleasanton, g4566

Re: Gun shows; oijlqrye ProhlbltlngthE possesston

No.0-2000_1 of Ftrearmeon county property;

As yo.uknowtheAlameda
9,,.]1v Boerdof supervlsorsadoptedtheabovereferencsd
l,'."iffi! ;"itåil|îåfr¡:fåús;ä;' '"ábing
Theordinance willtakeeffect.on.septembe-r
rg 1999.puor"nitô seclion
foroper:ationh" fi;;i; l5 oftheconlraçt
beoperared öJrlntyÈar,tsepieäleîäs,rsez¡th. Faírsrou¡¡ds
"r wirrãnâ-frråï" musr
incompfiance ra*r;lñË:;öiltiionç andordinancès,
theattachodordinance. incruding
we recognizethatsornemediarcports
isnolüreoase'Gunsr¡gws lhatthisordlnanceprevenlsgun$hows,This
'.i Ë ;rrd;i"d ;; rÈ.Ë¡iöìrîdï, provrdad rharrheycompry
oniÀããii'i,üi,L.."1rreuims"aài'ä-mmun¡r¡on wrth
and. otheipäãpdffi; rnatarenoiLittrin on Gounty properry.
ortheordinance mav:bqo¡sálâiãããä'Ï¿io ilä o*nniuons
thesaleof'flrearms ,¡ anv'åìî'-¡îåw. r¡e ordínancoàfço
oi tt*urtion-provrJnä tir"i;;Ë';,ii.resceôriotb€
firemisles. onrhe




07-t8-05 llz24 Ftc' 'ards,lYatãon
û Gar¡hon gg.
+714 T-532 P.002/005


ORDINANËE . z ?i cKer\n
þnoniÉff¡NcTHEPossEssloNoF FIREARMS


That the OrdinanceCode of the Countyof Alamedashallbe amendëdto add
read as follows:

9.12.120Possessiortof Firearmson county FropertyProhibited

(a). Findings. The Boardof Supervisors findsthat gunshotfatatitiesand injuriesare

of epidãmicproportionsin Alameda County. DurÍngthe first five yearsof the
lggb's gZg ñonì¡ciAes we¡^e cornfiitted using firearms, and an additional1,647
victimswere hospitalized with gurtshot injuries. Firearms are the leadingguse
of deathamong young people between the ages of 15 and 24 in Alameda.County-
BetwðènJury t-,iSUoänd iune 30, 199¿ 136 juvenileswere anestedin Oatdand
for gun-retatädotrenses.CInJuly4, 1998a shootingincidentol lh9 Alameda
CoüntyFairgrourrds rÊsultÈdin severälgunshotwounds,otherinjuriesand panic
' amongfair gìers. Prohibitingthe posseçsionof fireannson countyproPÊdy'
with tiie exåpfion of law enforcemèntpersonnelin the performanceof officiel
duties,wiUprbmotethe publiehealthand safetyby contributing to the reductionof
gunshot fatalitÎesand injuriesin the county

(b). Misdemeanor. Everypêrsonwho carriesonto Çountyof Atameda(hereinafter

.Çounty*)propertya fire¿rm.loadedor unloaded,or arnmunition
for a firearm,is
guiftyof a misdemeanor.

(c). County FrOperty. Countypropertyincludesreal properlyownedor leasedby

the County,and ¡rrCounty'sPossession, or in the possessionof a publicor
frivate eniiþ under contraetwith the County to performa publicPurposè.By wäy
;l*;.*pi;,'it att
inctudeç pubticbuildingsand tfr.esuroundinggroundsownedor
¡àaseddy tre Countyîn th'eunincorporatedand incorporatedportionsof the
County,åuchas the AlamedaCountyFairgrounds jn the Cityof Fleasanton.

(d). Fire'arm.'Firearm"is any gun, pistol.revolvêr,rifleor any device.designedor

modifiedto be usedas a weapon,fromwhichis expelledthrougha banela
projectileby the force of an explosionor other for¡'nof combustion-lt also
inciu¡esany insi¡umentwhichexpelsa metalllcprojectile,suchas a BB or a
pellet,throuih the forceof air pressure,CO2presËure,or springactiort-

(ei. Ammunit¡on, "Arnmunitlon" meãnsa cartridgeor cartridgescomposedof

pgw-derdesignedlot u¡e in any
cartridgecases,primers,bulfets,or pro-pellant doesàot include from
cartridges which the propellanthasbeen
removedand the primer Permanenüy deactivated.

Facsimil-e Received on 7/L8/2005 11:31:16 AM
07-f8-05 llt24 tror,' ¡rards,l{atson
t Gsr¡hon +7t4Sgt T-532 P.003/005

( f ) . P e a c e Q f f i c e r . A " F e a c e o f f i c e f ¡ s . a n y p e r s oPenal
n w hcode
o i s a(sectiorts
p e a c e o830
definedin Tlle 3, part2, chäË; +-giiiri" california
ef seq')'
( g ).Ë xce p ti o n s'S e cl i o n 9' 12' 120( b) doesnot,ap"plytoaFeaceoffic an er ;aguar dor
of a financiat ¡nEi¡tuì¡ón,a gua¡dof a contractcarrieropefat¡ng
armoreåv;;ñ¡.l- iüìtát- inËstigator'Fatroloperâtor' or ãlarm
compaiyö;;ff oi unifoiåeUsãcuritygî_a¡oas theseocc'pationsaredefined
1203ïidiandwh'oirotds a validcertificateissuedby the
in penat-Code section
section 12033, whileactually
o*partmuntor consume., eÈàiåînoàr Penal code
and preservins propertvor lifewithinthe
*'lìp,ovää'åiî ãngág*di" üot-rtr"g holdinoa valid license to carrya
scapeof friuoi nit Jmptoyment; a-p-erson
t ãoso;a person lawri.rll
¡r""rm-ir.Lä' óäirùãrinóiãitJr êãã ã sect¡on motor vehicleortCourttyroads;a pÉrson
transporting firearms o,. in a
onöË.oi*cl-bYlheAlameda CôuntySheriff;a federal
Ë; n* Ënrsicêment officeçor s memberof themilitary
"¡m¡nårîñu;"i,î,å; c;tiù;;äor;f
ror.*räi'ü.,;êìäîå;f the unitedstateswhileensasedin the
Performance of hisor herdutY;

paisageit sharbe_publishedoncewith
passãgeand beforeffi;;;-;*iËn oinneei Jãvi anei¡tÉ in thetnter-CityExpress' a
the namesof the.n**ð"-oîot¡t,g for andagái¡istthe
Ëir¡siäã punrished in the Çountvof Alameda'

Adoptedby the Boa¡dof suçervisors.of thecountyof Alameda'stateof califomia'on the lTth

oáv'àr{"e- 1999,by thefollowing calledvote:
AYES: Superwisors Carson, Kfcg, Steele  Preçtdenc Chan 4
NOEE; Superviçor ÉaggertY - 1

Presidentof the Eoardof Supervisors

Countyof Atameda'Stateof Califomia

of thã Boardof $upervisors'êountyof Alameda


'i3 ôa7
F a c . s i m i l e R e c e i v e d o n ' 1/ I B / 2 0 0 5 1 1 : 3 1 : 1 6 A M
ø9/t.7lLgeg 1?t11 ;-.426-7693 AI-AÈ1EDA ' FAI.R PAGS Ð2


' . :

4501 P¡råsaÀton
Avenue rAx (925)
. : 426.7599

Via: Fax
? '\-/
a I
T & S T ra d e S h cw e c c \
gordykc ä ?ìirefìnq *
å{4i Ru¡rft,S¡lIiç
Willqrvr,CÂ 9S98s

QearMr. & MIs.Nordyk-e:
Asyoparça.ware,rhp,{l$ûeda^Courty FarrAisosi¿tioo (esrociariOn) iË.¡uon.profit
corpoaatioqwhichthou$.n_Og$rlrg,Ágrçcme¡¡t withtt¡e;CoooiíofÃffiiü.''
.FulBo4O¡¡ o.fthpFaffioundr.-Sdion tl oftlrio,onc*i¡s:rqreentd;i
{Çguirrs to operæc
[d coilpliurce
with ¡ü f.øe,-if:St*ã;ñi¿øúuty
rggulatious^: ..:
S?ú* b qynr of Atrmq{aCouutyi.p Orrti¡a¡çç
lr[e.O¿qOOi prolúbirc
r r,,{rioU rh€
c,ounry-property: ¡lgo:rlu¿alÊd íi e to
tbeA¡soçìuio¡&o.rutiob¡rd B.Wisú!, CouÉyC.r;rrl.. .' : ,

i Ì .i.'l
øslø7/L999 17:11 5-4?6-7699 ALAI1EDA
CL V FAIR p¡eE a3

T & S ftuù ShowLtr .

No 0'2000-tr. TheÁssociatron wilr hordthedarøofNovetpber -Ê,
openfo1¡guh ls aud
F: þp-qrrfrt p"i ,i"w ¡nay*otinue a¡ctùein comptiance
theCountyof ,{lamed¡.'¡
ø thi{ matt€r.TheA¡sociationrook¡forwsrdro d-
y/ithT & S ira¡;¡n*r.*-""-


sc: FairBoard
Cou¡tyBoa¡dof Supervisors

( "
07-ls-85 ll:25 Frofi-' 'ds,flat¡on
t ûarshon +711SS0 T-532 F.004/005F-26S


Ê ^--- cñ
ã ftcKerintl -l-

That the OrdinanceÇode of the Countyof Alamedashalfbe amendedby revisingSection

9.12.120to read aËfollows:
g.12,120Fossession of Flrearmson county Froperty Prohibited

(a) Firrdings, The Boardof Supervisorsfindsthat gunshotfatafitiesand injuriesare of

epidemìcproportionsin AlamedaCounty. Duringthq IFt fiv.e,y-e3¡ oflhe 1990's879
hbmicides were cûmmitted using firearms,and an additional1,647victimswere
hospitalizedwith gunshotinjuries. Firearmsare the leadingcauseof deathamong
youirgpeoplebetfueenthe àges of 15 and 24 in AtamedaCounty.BetweenJuly 1, 1996
ånOJilne io, 1ggz,156juveñileswere arrestedin Oaklandfor gun-related ofienses.on
July 4, 1998a shootingincident the Alameda Çq"nty Fairg¡oundsresultedin several
gunshotwounds,othei injuriesand panic amongfgf S.oery...Prohibitingthe possession
õf f¡r".rms on Countypropertywilt promotethe public heatthand safetyby contributingto
the reductionof gunshotfatalitiesand injuriesin the County-

(b) Migdemeangr. Everypêrsonwho bringsontoor pos$esseson Çountypropeftya

fireann,loadedor unloaded,or ammunitionfor a firearmis guil$ of a misdemeãnor'

(c) County Property. As usedirrthis SeÇtion, the term Cour¡typroperlymeäns- real

properiy,incìudiñgany buildingsffiereon,ovrnedor leased by the Countyof Alameda
.Couãty"),and in ti'reCounty'spossessio¡,or in the possession of a p_ublic
òr private entityunáel contractwith the County to perforrna pubticpurpose' includingbut
noi l¡m¡te¿ re¿l propertyowned or leasedby the Çourrty in the unincoçorated and
incorpootud portiðns'oftíre County,srrcfias ùie Countypark in Sunoland the Alameda
C;"rity Fairgioundsin the City of Fleasanton,but does nqtincludeany "localpublib
buildirrg'aslennedin PenalCodeSection171b(c),wheJ¡the Stateregulates
possess¡o,r of fi¡:earmspursuantto FenalCodeSection171b.

(d) Firearm,'Firêârm"is anygun,pistol,revolver, or modified

rifleor arrydevice,designed
to be useda5-aweapon,nómwt¡Lgb-E-E¡pelled througha banela bytheforce
or ãn-erÞlG¡oÞroúreriorm o@mUusn'òþ"Fireann"doesnotinclude imitatiort
firesrfisþEg-guns ánaair riflËnãEïeffi-d In Governrnent GodeSection53071.5'

(ê)' **un,Oorri**un¡t¡lli, unyammunitiçn Section

as definedin PerralCode
(f) Ëxceptions.
' subsection 9.12.1?0(b) doesnotqPplIJothefollowing:
(l ) A p"J"* officeras oefin'eúin Ttle 3, Part2, Ghapter4.5of theCalifornia

F a c s i m i l - e R e c e i v e d o n 7 / 1 , 81 2 0 0 5 1 1 : 3 1 : 1 6 A M
û7;18-05 ll r25 From-' ''ds,Watson
t tarshor +7t4gg0 T-532 P.005/005

PenalËode(seotions'830 etseg')'
(2) A guardor messênger åf a financidlinstitution, a guardof a contract carrier
operatingan ãrmoiedvehiÇle, å l¡censed privateinvestigator, pâlloloperãtor, or afarm
çompanyop"iát*, oÍ unifonned securitygtlardas.theçe occupations arp defined in
penåtCäOËse"t¡oh12091(d) andwhofroidsa validcedificate issued þy the Department
of Çonsume.Ãffairsunderþenal Codesection12033,whileactually employed and
engagedin protecting and preserving property or lifewithin the scope of hisor her
. emploYment;
' '(g)
a valid.licençe
A personholdirrg to carrya firearmissuedpursuant to Penal
- - - section
Çode 12050;
(4) Thepossåssionof a fiçãrm participant in a motionpicture,
or theatricalproäuction
tetevisiòn,v¡oãð,-oãnce, or event.whentheparticipant lawfufly
ùsesthenre"*'aï partofthatproduöt¡on or event, provided that when such firearm is
notin the actr¡alpossessionof theauthorized participanl it is secured to prevent
unauthorized use.
(g) A pJoOnlawtutlytrarrsporting firearmsor amrnunition in a motorvehicleon
County roads;
A petsonlawfr¡lly by theAlamedaCounty
or law enforcementofficer:or
(7) A federaløimïnalinvestig,ator
the United
iAi e måmnerof the militaryforces of the State of Californiaor of
states ,arrrile
engagedirr the performanceof his or her duty.

(S) SeverabÌlity. lf any provisionofrhis sedion or the applicatiortthereofto flY personor

circumstanceis heid'¡nvalid,such invalidityshall not affectany otherprovisionor
applicationof this sectionwh¡chçan be give-n_effect wähoutthe invalidprovisionor
aþþt¡cation,and to this end the provisionsof this sect¡onare seveEble.
This ordinanceshatt take efiectand be in force thirly (30) days from and after the date of
;å*dõ äf¡*toi* the expirationof fifteendays aner its passageit shall be publishedonce with
tt e naînesof the *emUers'uotingfor and againstthe samein tre lnter-ÇityËxpress,a
newsFsperpublishedín the Ëountyof Alameda.
the 28'
Adoptedby the Board of $upervisorsof the Coynty of Alameda,Stateof Califomia,on
day of Septernber,1999,by the followtngcalledvote:

AYES: Cdrson,HaggertY,
Supervisors , and Steele- 4
NOËS; ntne
EXCUSED: PresidentChan'1

Vice.Presidentof the
çöu-rftyof ?\lameda,Ståteof Califomia

of the Board of $upervisots,Countyof Alameda

Facsimife Received on 7/L8/2OO5 11:31:16 AM

,DonaldE.J K¡:.ler,Jr.
'n,, n, n
oTccou2f4 oTEJ-aat

E'f*Á*g ltt'o -tiß..ry""/ Ø.oþrþ Avenue

126| Lincoln ' Suite108
Telephone 998-8489
October20,1999 (40S)998:8487
Via: U.S.Mail and Facsimile
Rick K. Pickering,GeneralManager
AlamedaCounfyFair Association
4501 PleasantonAvenue
5 f\
Pleasanton,Califomía9 4566


Re: T&S TradeShow- Event CurrentlyScheduledforNovember6 817

Dear Mr. Pickering:

My firm hasbeenretainedto representRussand SallieNordyke in a lawsuit againstthe

County of Alameda. I first want to thank your for extendingyour October 15,1999deadlineto
October 20, 1999,,for your requestthat the Nordykessubräita written plan as to how theywill
conduct a gun showat the Fairgroundsthat will comply with the AlamedaCount¡rOrdinance
No.: 0-2000-ll.

Unfortunately,sinceHis Honor has set a hearingon this matterfor October 28,1999la

copy of that orderis aftachedfor your records],itwill not be possiblefor my clientsto respondto
yoìrr requestby that October20, 1999deadline.However,.T&STrade Show intendsto proceed
with the November6 & 7 show until or unlessthe Judgedeclinesto grant their requestfor a
TemporaryRestrainingOrderas aresult of the heanngon the 28ù of October.

In reviewingthe Nordyke's contractwith your organization.I cannotfind any language

that requiresthemto submita written plan suchasthe oneyou requebted.They do in fact have
contractualobligationsto comply with all federal,stateand local laws. Fleasebe assuredthat my
clients intendto comply with all of their legal obligations-both cónhactualand st4tutory.

Pleasefeel free to contactmy office if you have any questions.Thank you. '


Donald E. J. Kilmer, Jr.

Attorney for T&S Trade Shows

Ulients- via fax: 5301934-9107

4501Pleasanton .
Avenue Pleasanton, .
CA 9+566 (gZ5)426-7600 FAX (925)476-7599
( p i I

PicVrinq +
T& STradeshows
P. O. Box 871
Willows CA 95988

Attention: SallieNordyke

Deai Sallie:

Enclosed,please;findyour check#3238in the amountof $3,790.50which you had

subrnittedas a depositfor 2000 eventdates.As you areawarethe Countyof Alameda
hasadoptedan ordinancewhich precludesthe possession of fi¡earmson Countypropert!.
Until suchtime as f g S Trade Showcomesforward with a plan to comþly with this
ordinancq the Fair Associationcannot reservedatesfor thiStype of event. You were
notifiedbyletter @ecember10, 1999)that al! holdson 2000dateshavebeenreleased.

As shownin the statementof December10, 1999,your depositof $2750.00was applied

to Invoice #227-D{ from the 1999Septembershow. The correctbalancedue on your
accountis $1,040.50.Pleasefonvarda checkfor that amountas soonas possible.

Thank you for your assistancein this matter. If you haveany questions,pleasedb not '
hesitateto call.

Very tplq yours, ,.-

t l / )
/ / /, /
li útnþ(tl\4k
Terri EaganThut,

CC: Rick Pickering,GeneralManager