Thayer How India-Vietnam Strategic Ties Are Mutually Beneficial

How India-Vietnam Strategic Ties Are Mutually Beneficial | The Diplomat
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How India-Vietnam Strategic Ties Are Mutually Beneficial

Vietnams defense relations with India lessen its near total defense dependency on Russia.
By Carl Thayer December 03, 2013
Last month, after Russias President Vladimir Putin made a high-profile visit Image Credit: Wikimedia Commons to Hanoi that resulted in a marked step up in defense cooperation, the Secretary General of the Vietnam Communist Party Nguyen Phu Trong traveled to India with the same objective. Trongs visit signaled that Vietnam seeks to leverage Indias expertise and experience with Soviet/Russian military technology to its advantage and mitigate the risk of dependency on a sole supplier. Secretary General Trong successfully sought Indias assistance to modernize its armed forces. In response to earlier Vietnamese lobbying to purchase naval warships, India made the unprecedented offer of a US$100 million line of credit for the purchase of four Offshore Patrol Vessels. This was Indias first offer of credit for the purchase of military equipment to a country outside of South Asia. Another agreement related to the protection of defense-related information. India and Vietnam are reportedly negotiating the sale of the BrahMos cruise missile to Vietnam as well as cooperation in defense co-production. Shortly after Trong returned to Vietnam, it was announced that India would train up to 500 Vietnamese sailors in comprehensive underwater combat operations at its modern submarine training center INS Satavahana. This latest uptick in India-Vietnam defense relations has a long history. In 1982, a major milestone in bilateral relations was reached with the establishment of the IndiaVietnam Joint Committee for Economic, Cultural, Scientific and Technological Cooperation to oversee bilateral relations. India-Vietnam defense cooperation dates to the 1980s and 1990s. Major defense cooperation agreements were signed in September 1994, March 2000 and May 2003.
http://thediplomat.com/2013/12/how-india-vietnam-strategic-ties-are-mutually-benefi... 21/12/2013
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A major turning point was reached in November 2007 when India and Vietnam raised their bilateral relations to a strategic partnership during the official visit to India by Vietnams Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung. The Joint Declaration on Strategic Partnership included thirty-three points and mapped out cooperation in five major areas: political, defense and security; closer economic cooperation and commercial engagement; science and technology; cultural and technical; and multilateral and regional cooperation. The Joint Declaration set out six areas of cooperation under the political, defense and security heading: First, India and Vietnam agreed to hold a Strategic Dialogue at deputy minister level. These have been held annually since 2007. Second, India and Vietnam agreed to place future emphasis on defense supplies, joint projects, training cooperation and intelligence exchanges. Third, India and Vietnam agreed to enhance contacts and exchange visits between their defense and security establishments. Fourth, in light of shared maritime interests, India and Vietnam agreed to enhance cooperation in capacity building, technical assistance and information sharing between relevant agencies with a particular attention to security of sea-lanes, antipiracy, prevention of pollution and search and rescue. Fifth, India and Vietnam resolved to strengthen bilateral cooperation to combat terrorism and to promote cooperation in cyber security. Sixth, India and Vietnam agreed to cooperate to address non-traditional security issues including drug trafficking, natural disasters, climate change, energy security, HIV/AIDS, avian influenza and other epidemics. The defense component of the strategic partnership was acted upon immediately. In December 2007, Indias Defense Minister A. K. Anthony signed a Memorandum of Understanding with his counterpart, General Phung Quang Thanh, during a visit to Hanoi. The MOU included cooperation in national defense, navy, air defense and training. Anthony also announced that India would transfer 5,000 spare parts to assist Vietnam in maintaining its Petya-class ships and that India would send a team to Vietnam to assist in training for UN peacekeeping operations. Since 2007, under the strategic partnership, India and Vietnam exchanged high-level visits including heads of government, defense ministers and service chiefs. India also conducted regular naval port visits to Vietnam in April 2008, April 2009, May-June 2010, May 2011, July 2011, May 2012. In February 2008, Admiral Sureesh Mehta, Chief of the Army Staff Committee, held discussions in Hanoi with Senior Lt. Gen. Nguyen Khac Nghien, Chief of Staff of the Vietnam Peoples Army (VPA). In October the following year, a defense delegation let by Lt. Gen. Nguyen Thinh, head of the Defense Research Center, visited India for discussions with the Defense Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).
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General Thinh expressed interest in technical assistance in producing cruise missiles. In November 2009, Defense Minister General Phung Quang Thanh visited India. Lt. Gen. Pham Hong Loi, VPA Deputy Chief of Staff, hosted the visit to Hanoi by the Chief of the Indian Army, General Vijay Kumar Singh in July 2010. General Singhs agenda included cooperation in reciprocal language training, humanitarian assistance, search and rescue, and sharing of experiences in United Nations peacekeeping operations. Defense Minister A. K. Anthony returned to Hanoi in October 2010 to attend the inaugural meeting of the ASEAN Defense Ministers Meeting Plus. During his visit he held bilateral discussions with General Thanh. The two ministers agreed on future defense cooperation including exchange visits, joint training in mountain and jungle warfare, naval ship repair and maintenance, and search and rescue. India also agreed to assist Vietnam in training its forces for UN peacekeeping, establish a foreign language center, and exchange information on their navies and air forces. Vietnam offered to provide facilities to repair, maintain and fuel Indian naval ships. In July 2011, Vice Admiral Nguyen Van Hien, Chief of Naval Staff, made a visit to India to solicit assistance in constructing Offshore Patrol Vessels and Fast Attack Craft. Hien received assurances that India would continue to train its naval personnel and help Vietnam maintain Russian equipment. Indian Defense Secretary Shashi Kant Sharma attended the annual Strategic Dialogue in Hanoi in September 2011. The two sides discussed measures to boost cooperation between their navies, air forces, infantry and defense industries. Sharma offered to provide naval training facilities and assist in capacity building. A month later, President Truong Tan Sang made a state visit to India to meet with his counterpart. President Sang also met with Defense Secretary Shashi Kant Sharma and Minister of State for Defence Pallam Raju. Sang requested Indian assistance in four areas: the training of submariners, pilot conversion training to fly the Su-30, modernization of Nha Trang port, and the transfer of medium-sized naval warships. Sang also asked India to consider providing Brahmos cruise missiles. Indian defense officials reaffirmed that India would continue to assist Vietnam in military training, human resource development and information sharing. Deputy Defense Minister and Chief of the General Staff, Lt. Gen. Do Ba Ty visited India in September 2013. He held discussions on future enhanced military cooperation with the Defense Secretary and Chairman of the Chiefs of Staff Committee who is concurrently chief of the Indian Air Force. General Ty paid visits to the Eastern and Western Naval Command. India and Vietnam have convergent security interests, including maximizing their room for maneuver in dealing with China and other major powers within their respective regions. Indias relations with Vietnam provide a basis for a larger Indian role in East Asia, particularly in the maritime domain. For example, India uses its military relationship with Vietnam to apply counter pressure on China for its support for Pakistan.
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Defense cooperation is mutually beneficial. India gains from the sale of military equipment, platforms, technology and services to Vietnam. India also benefits from Vietnams political support including dialogue partner status with ASEAN, membership in the ASEAN Regional Forum and Indias candidature for permanent membership on the UN Security Council. Indias sale of arms, equipment, spares, technology and services enhances Vietnams ability to modernize its armed forces and strengthen its capacity for the repair and maintenance of air and naval platforms. In other words, Vietnams defense relations with India lessen its near total defense dependency on Russia.
An Nam December 4, 2013 at 05:04
Good to see how India, Vietnam and Japan working together to stop the madness from China. The bear of Russia and USA will be the end for China also. Let start the WAR China.
Reply nirvana December 4, 2013 at 00:29
As one admiral (?) has reminded us here, Vietnam having received a good lesson from China in 1978, can explain to India what they have learned. But the admiral also gave us a hint. The next battle will not be waged with tanks but firstly with missiles, then jets and submarines as end game. What the French know, the US know, but the Chinese have forgotten, is that teaching a resilient nation like Vietnam is not a piece of cake, especially when you have to play end games. But I wish all my heart that Vietnam will not be dragged into such a war again. They, as well as the 2.5+ billions of people living in this region deserve more than Cold War rhetoric and medieval thinking. Stopping putting up walls, lets communicate.
Reply Little Helmsman December 4, 2013 at 05:35
@nirvana, Your BS is getting boring! You keep making comments about how Vietnam fought France, US, etc. Those wars were a lot more complicated than simple propagandistic narrative by a totalitarian party. Its a nice David and Goliath story but thats not entirely
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truthful! For one thing, not every Vietnamese fought for uncle Ho. Many Vietnamese fought against him, died, and imprisoned by him. He was simply one clown out of many political clowns in Vietnam. The only legacy uncle Ho and his clownish commie party accomplished for Vietnam was to be an independent, turd world toilet with no technology, no education, and millions of Viet refugees scattered all over the globe. Please do not insult of the intelligent people everywhere by parroting Hanois crude official propaganda. Propaganda does not work in free society. People in the free world can think for themselves because they have the free will to so and have access to independent information. We do not accept VC perverted and distorted history. The VC founded a crude dictatorship based on Soviet and Chinese model because VC were unimaginative and uncreative to do so on their own. VC are so dumb they have imitate and mimic all the bad ideas discarded throughout the world. This is 2013 and your dummy VC party is out of ideas. The only idea the VC party can think up is to imitate and mimic the Chinese Communist Party! So laughable! Btw, I noticed you do not live in Vietnam which your uncle Ho made for you! Why not live in the same VC toilet your VC party created for you? Why do 86 million Viets have to endure VC toilet while you live in a democratic country with free speech, religious tolerance, etc.? I dont expect an answer from you because I know opportunists rarely have the ethics and morals to be truthful about their blatant contradictions.
Reply Mark Truong December 4, 2013 at 14:24
Your long rant offers no fact and rehashes anti-Vietnam arguments that only a bitter, beat-up, unhappy, expatriated and retired former South Vietnamese could. Youre your worse enemy as you cant comprehend the complex but effective geopolitical maneuvers to protect independent and sovereign Vietnam, by the capable generation of determined Vietnamese. The more Vietnam demonstrates her capability to stand up and push China back, the more painful it is for you because you may not be around to witness the ugly dream of a defeated VCP government.
nirvana December 5, 2013 at 02:39
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@ Mark Truong, I am not sure that Little Helmsmans opinion is representative of expatriate South Vietnamese. He has a lot of grievance towards the Vietnamese government and the VCP (many Vietnamese do I must admit). But what strikes me is that there is not much Vietnameseness left in him. Of course the Vietnamese are divided, abroad or in the country. They often were in their history. But when the critical time comes, I am pretty sure they will get united, as they always have shown.
admiral Cheng December 3, 2013 at 19:26
India and Vietnam are reportedly negotiating the sale of the BrahMos cruise missile to Vietnam as well as cooperation in defense coproduction. How dare these two third world poor countries try to hold China at ransom? If things were continue in the same direction China is left with no alternative but to teach a severe lesson to both these rogue nation states. Vietnamese should think they share more in common with China than the alien Indians.
Reply Cam December 4, 2013 at 04:47
Well, admiral, we think you are much more familiar with kitchen stuffs in any chinese restaurants than talking about war and teaching lessons to others. Did you learn any lessons from Sino-Vietnam war in 1979? if I were you, I should take care of the dirty pile of dishes first. LOL.
Reply An Nam December 4, 2013 at 04:57
The Chinese arrogant is the reason for all the conflicts in Asia. Most the countries in the region want peace. But if the Chinese force to war, then let it happen. This time, Vietnam is not fighting alone. Vietnam people are ready to die for their county. Are the bullying Chinese ready too? or they are busy to bring their greed money to USA and let the uneducated Chinese die for them. The world is fed up with the Chinese arrogant. They do not learn from Nanking and Changhai. Let start the WAR Chinese men. But dont cry then.
Reply
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C V Joglekar December 4, 2013 at 17:22
Scared of Bramhos?
Reply arnab December 5, 2013 at 00:30
Admiral Cheng, First of all you may want to do a quality audit on all your weapon system. You counbtry CHINA cannot even make a good quality coat hangar or a good quality spoon.. your weapons are the same..
Reply Aseem December 3, 2013 at 17:21
With a common neighbour like China which keeps trying to dominate and claim others territories both Vietnam and India have no option but to enter into defence cooperation. Post Soviet era both countries had to restrategise their foreign relations. Russia, China and India are ranked 2, 3 and 4 in military power by global fire power. Today Japan is realizing what it is to ignore ones military growth and is depending on its allies. Vietnam can gain from Indias naval and military training infrastructure & missile technology and it can offer its expertise in jungle warfare. By coming together they can only gain be it defence, economy or tourism and culture.
Reply Von December 3, 2013 at 16:18
To the author: Admiral Sureesh Mehta, was not the head of the Chief of the Army Staff Committee, as no such committee exists. He was the Chairman of the Chiefs of Staff Committee.
Reply Nguyn December 3, 2013 at 11:39
There is certainly a lot of room to grow between Vietnam and India. For one, Vietnam can certainly provide its ready hand to upgrade Indias military hardware because Vietnam is very experience with Russian weapon system and India purchase a lot of Russian weapons.
Reply
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TDog December 3, 2013 at 11:13
Im not so sure Indian gear and training are something Vietnam needs or should even be pursuing. In regards to training, Vietnam did well enough on its own against the French, Americans, and Chinese while Indias military ventures have been a bit of a mixed bag. Where military gear is concerned, Indian military hardware has been of very questionable quality. Their homegrown tank, the Arjun, is beset with problems. Their homegrown fighter jet, the Tejas, is inferior in many respects to even the MiG-21, to say nothing of Chinas J-8 and J-10 fighter jets. India does possess some very efficient naval vessels, so Vietnam can benefit in that respect. In conclusion, I think Vietnam requires very little from India.
Reply C V Joglekar December 3, 2013 at 16:16
As ranked by Chinese media, Arjun is one of the best tanks at present at world stage. In March 2010, the Arjun was pitted against the T-90 in comparative trials and performed very well. Source: http://asitimes.blogspot.in/2013/06/chinas-media-report-ranking10-world.html http://forum.pakistanidefence.com/index.php?showtopic=88342
Reply TDog December 4, 2013 at 03:52
A blog and a forum are your references? Oh boy God bless the Internet and the credulous for they are a match made in heaven. First observation: the trials were conducted by the Indian Ministry of Defence, an organization which had a vested interest in seeing the Arjun outperform foreign tanks. The Indian Army itself had no interest in ordering more than the initial batch of 124 tanks, but these tests magically proved that the Arjun was superior in every way to the T-90. If you dont think politics was involved in the testing process, you need to open your eyes some. And by the way, the details and official results from that test are still classified. What was leaked was what the Indian MoD wanted leaked to further their agenda.
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Second observation: the Arjun is slow. With a cross country speed of 25 mph, it is outclassed by the Chinese Type 99 (40 mph cross country), and comparable to the T-90 (which is also 25 mph cross country). Third observation: It is relatively underpowered. At 23.9 hp/ton, the Arjun has less horsepower per ton than the T-90 (26.3 hp/t), the Type 99 (28 hp/t), M1A1 Abrams (24.5 hp/t), and the AMX56 (27.2 hp/t) to name but a few. Admittedly, it is cheap. At a cost of about $2 million per unit, its a very reasonably-priced piece of heavy equipment. Furthermore, as it has not been tested in combat, it is hard to say whether or not its good, bad, or somewhere in between. But looking at its figures, its not a very good tank.
arnab December 5, 2013 at 00:32
Tdog.. why dont you go under a rock and hibernate for the next 1000 years
Von December 7, 2013 at 01:36
To TDog the trials were conducted by the Indian Ministry of Defence, an organization which had a vested interest in seeing the Arjun outperform foreign tanks. You dont seem to have much idea about the workings of the Indian Ministry of Defence or the procurement policies of the Indian Army/MOD. If you had, you would know that the Indian Armys Director General of Armour, and the overall Indian Army itself was highly favouring a large follow-on order of the T-90S tanks. The MODs DRDOs efforts to produce a modern MBT Arjun were viewed with enormous doubts within the Army. The Indian MOD does not conduct any trials, which are done by the three services. The tank comparison trials were reluctantly carried out by the Indian Army, on the repeated insistence of DRDO, the tanks maker. Hence, it was a big shock to everyone that the Arjun could out-perform the T-90, as now the Army could not lobby the MOD to place a new order of foreign tanks, when the indigenous tank seemed good enough. The T-90 and Arjun are not comparable tanks to begin with, the latter is 50% heavier than the former, with a lot of heavy armor, and enhanced crew protection. But eventually, the Army had to
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concede that it was a good tank, but still complained that at 60 tonnes, it was too heavy, and required revamping of the entire logistical/transport setup of the armys three strike corps, if they were to use Arjun tank in them.
Their homegrown fighter jet, the Tejas, is inferior in many respects to even the MiG-21 Can you provide any references for that? Last i heard, it was comparable to the Mirage 2000.
Von, Tejas (data courtesy of the Indian Defense Ministry): Max speed: Mach 1.8 Range: 850 km Combat radius: 300 km Maximum payload: 6800 kg MiG 21 (data courtesy of Janes, FAS): Max speed: Mach 2 Range: 1110 km Combat radius: 330 km Maximum payload: 4700 kg As you can see, the MiG-21 has a greater combat radius, greater range, and greater speed, hence my assertion that the Tejas is inferior in many respects to the Mig-21. And it is nowhere near the same class as the Mirage 2000. Without any insult meant to India or Indian engineers, France simply has more experience at designing fighter jets. It would be unrealistic to expect India to catch up to Western aircraft designers with their second go at making a fighter jet.
Sir, those figures are comparable because the Indian Air force wanted them to be so. It was designed to be a Light Combat Aircraft (LCA). Any aviation expert will tell you such figures can only show comparability in role, not performance.
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In fact, being a multi-role aircraft with advanced multi-mode radar, avionics, engine and flight control systems, is it far ahead in terms of performance from the Mig 21. In fact, by your analysis, even the Swiss Gripen is a Mig 21-comparable plane, but that does not mean anything sensible. In fact, both Gripen and Tejas are advanced fourth-generation low-cost light fighters and cannot be compared to a 3rd generation fighter design.
C V Joglekar December 4, 2013 at 17:07
Yes, Arjun has weight problem. But it has armed better than many other tanks. Its armor includes One 120 mm gun, one 7.62 mm MAG coaxial machine gun, one NSVT 12.7 mm anti-aircraft machine gun, 2 x 9 smike grenade launcher with Laser range finder, automatic fire detection and suppression system, computer firing system, night vision, NBC protection system You have got wrong details about its speed. Check the specifications at
http://www.armyrecognition.com/india_indian_army_tanks_heavy_armoured_vehicles_uk/arjun_mk-i_ma It has max speed of 70Km/hr, and 40km/hr for a heavily build tank it is a great speed. In fact the latest, MK-II version has cross country speed of 60Km/hr. Comping to the second point, after Arjun outgunned T90, the arms lobby sensed a loss of commission and started spreading rumors about the capability of the tank. check the latest details at http://world-defece-review.blogspot.in/p/arjun-mk-2-features.html The new Arjun MK-II tank has begun field trials http://www.defencenews.in/defence-news-internal.asp? get=new&id=1777
CV Joglekar, My speed figures are in miles per hour, not kilometers per hour, so they wind up being the same. :)
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In regards to the capabilities of the Arjun II, it certainly seems to be a very capable machine. My reluctance in calling it a world class tank, however, rests with the fact that the DRDO is relatively new at the tank-designing and building game. The Arjun is their first attempt and its unrealistic to expect them to turn out something that can rival the Russians most modern tank on their first or even second try. We should also note that blogs are hardly the best source material for analysis. For example, the second source you cited claims the Iron Active Protection System will be installed on the Arjun II. The Iron Fist APS, however, is still undergoing development (check out IMIs webpage) and has yet to be fully deployed. It is unlikely it would be committed to use on a foreign tank before the IDF gets it. And the Iron Dome anti-missile system is not capable of being mounted on a tank for close in defense. The Arjun is likely a disappointment in most categories, but that is not anything that should be laughed at or made light of. It simply means the Arjun is an evolutionary step in Indias tankmanufacturing learning process and any problems or shortcomings the Arjun has now are unlikely to be repeated in future designs. In other words, if the Arjun is a mediocre tank overall (and it likely is), it doesnt mean Indians are stupid or incapable, it simply means they have a learning process like the rest of us. No one beats the record on their first try and Im sure the next DRDO design will be superb.
Hyd December 6, 2013 at 17:27
ATLEAST they dont copy and steal designsand build on their own..which china can only dream since its busy copying.all 1.3billion chinks are copies
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How India-Vietnam Strategic Ties Are Mutually Beneficial | The Diplomat

How India-Vietnam Strategic Ties Are Mutually Beneficial

How India-Vietnam Strategic Ties Are Mutually Beneficial | The Diplomat

How India-Vietnam Strategic Ties Are Mutually Beneficial | The Diplomat

How India-Vietnam Strategic Ties Are Mutually Beneficial | The Diplomat

An Nam December 4, 2013 at 05:04

How India-Vietnam Strategic Ties Are Mutually Beneficial | The Diplomat

nirvana December 5, 2013 at 02:39

How India-Vietnam Strategic Ties Are Mutually Beneficial | The Diplomat

admiral Cheng December 3, 2013 at 19:26

How India-Vietnam Strategic Ties Are Mutually Beneficial | The Diplomat

C V Joglekar December 4, 2013 at 17:22

How India-Vietnam Strategic Ties Are Mutually Beneficial | The Diplomat

TDog December 3, 2013 at 11:13

How India-Vietnam Strategic Ties Are Mutually Beneficial | The Diplomat

arnab December 5, 2013 at 00:32

Von December 7, 2013 at 01:36

How India-Vietnam Strategic Ties Are Mutually Beneficial | The Diplomat

Von December 3, 2013 at 16:20

Von December 6, 2013 at 20:27

How India-Vietnam Strategic Ties Are Mutually Beneficial | The Diplomat

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How India-Vietnam Strategic Ties Are Mutually Beneficial | The Diplomat

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