IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF OHIO EASTERN DIVISION

Edward Patrick, Plaintiff, VS. Cleveland Scene Publishing, LLC, et al., Defendants.
) )

CASE NO. 0 5 - ~ ~ - 2 7 9 j

1
)

Videotaped deposition of Michael Bowen, a witness herein, called by the Defendant for cross-examination pursuant to the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, taken before Susan Sharp, videographer, and Renee Rogers, Registered Professional Reporter and notary public within and for the State of Ohio, at the offices of Robbins, Kelly, Patterson
&

Tucker, LPA,

7 West Seventh Street, Suite 1400, Cincinnati, Ohio, on Wednesday, February 7, 2007, commencing at

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 2 of 218

Page 2
1 APPEARANCES :

2 On b e h a l f o f t h e P l a i n t i f f : 3
4

5

J e f f r e y Blankenship, Esq. Monohan & B l a n k e n s h i p 7 7 1 1 Ewing B o u l e v a r d , S u i t e 1 0 0 F l o r e n c e , K e n t u c k y 41042 ( 8 5 9 ) 283-1140
N.

6
7 8

Randy J . B l a n k e n s h i p , E s q . Robbins, K e l l y , P a t t e r s o n & Tucker, The F e d e r a t e d B u i l d i n g , S u i t e 1 4 0 0 7 West S e v e n t h S t r e e t C i n c i n n a t i , Ohio 45202 ( 5 1 3 ) 721-3330

LPA

9
1 0 On b e h a l f of t h e D e f e n d a n t s :
11

12 13
14

K e n n e t h A. Z i r m , E s q . W a l t e r & H a v e r f i e l d , LLP The Tower a t E r i e v i e w 1 3 0 1 E a s t N i n t h S t r e e t , S u i t e 3500 Cleveland, Ohio 4 4 1 1 4 ( 2 1 6 ) 781-1212

15 A l s o P r e s e n t : 16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23

Edward P a t r i c k

24
..-I+ S A C

.-

LIX-__Y_I--_T

=----=&_L__ ". .. _4*1__.___n_-_A__

1

.

Case I :05-cv-02791 -LW

Document I 21

S T I P U L A T I O N S

It i s stipulated hy and mqng counsel f o r t h e

5

&en

may be taken at t h i s time by t h e Defendant as

6 upan crosa-ex$miriatlan pursuant to the. Federal Rules
7 og Civil Procedure and p u r s u a n t t o N u t i c e and

8 agreembnt of counsel as ta the time and place; that

9 the depositidn may be' t a k e n by Qideotape arid in
10 s t e n o t p y by the notary public-court reporter, and

11 txansqribed by her out a£ the presence of the
12 dtnesjs, and that examination and signature to t h e 13 tl-ansdribed deposmition is hereby waived.

I

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 4 of 218

Page 4
1

I N D E X

2
3 Witness

Cross

Examination

4 MICHAEL BOWEN
B y Mr. Zirm By M r .
J . Blankenship

Recross
By M r .

Zirm

214

E X H I B I T S 11 12 Defendants' Exhibit Number 1
13 Defendants' Exhibit Number 2

Marked
9

49 60
68

14 Defendants' Exhibit Number 3 15 Defendants' Exhibit Number 4 16 Defendants' Exhibit Number 5 17 Defendants' Exhibit Number 6 18 Defendants' Exhibit Number 7 19 Defendants' Exhibit Number 8 20 Defendants' Exhibit Number 9 21 Defendants' Exhibit Number 10
22 Defendants' Exhibit Number 11

75

23 Defendants' Exhibit Number 12

24 Defendants' Exhibit Number 13

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 5 of 218

Page 5

1
2 Defendants' Exhibit Number 14

Marked 101 106 107

3 Defendants' Exhibit Number 15
4 Defendants' Exhibit Number 16

5 Defendants' Exhibit Number 17 6 Defendants' Exhibit Number 18 7 Defendants' Exhibit Number 19 8 Defendants' Exhibit Number 20

9 Defendants' Exhibit Number 21
1 0 Defendants' Exhibit Number 22

11 Defendants' Exhibit Number 23 12 Defendants' Exhibit Number 24 13 Defendants' Exhibit Number 2 5 14 Defendants' Exhibit Number 26 15 Defendants' Exhibit Number 27 16 Defendants' Exhibit Number 28 17 Defendants' Exhibit Number 29 18 Defendants' Exhibit Number 30 19 Defendants' Exhibit Number 31
20 Defendants' Exhibit Number 32

21 Defendants' Exhibit Number 33

22 Defendants' Exhibit Number 34

23 Defendants' Exhibit Number 35 24 Defendants' Exhibit Number 36

15-cv-02791-LW

Document I 21

Marked
157

3 Q e f e n d k n t s ' Exhibit Number 38
4 Defendants1 Exhibit Number 39
1

177

Case I :05-cv-02791-LW

Document I 21
:

I
:t
2
3
IL

\

/
:
A

$& ? ! . ,

,@% ,,....

.a&,
,
7 ,

I

s 4 +
$:,
I +
I
.. .-

g& &$,..+ .g @ & ! - &a: ;q&@ 'md-ay g a '$w . .
.,.?JF&&! , : --: ..
. . .. .
?.<

-t b .e
,

I
1

!
.. .

c--..C

. .

>.-.

.- , .

5

emwfiq
,.- . . . S";:: .<.>
\

&&&;&$: y m * m
. -..,,.
%

;:&==

\
!

&
2'

I

..

.<.

'

:

Y

,&

;rl:r*yF ~ase w&r
3;~,f ; .&
,
I

p3-+f&qy$ f
;#&$&& . .. ; g $ j & $j m
C..

I
I

@

I
I

+..>

I .

.... < . = =

@
1 4

I I

th,rnsejya&,,&*, this

kim.

M I ? . ZIRM:

I

&=g

4 - .,
..

.., += =-.

+

Defendant Scene PYbli$&sS& .
, . . . ....

@
p j &

MR. ,-.Fl?R EY BLANgENSHI P,: Jeff
% ~ a n ~ e n ~ca:a,.l;i , ~ ~ p PfJ o r the p l a i n t i f f ,

I
I

'

k&qard Pat,ric,k,MR. RANDY ~ K E N @ H I ~ B - Randy, :
&= +& :.&,&f&+&@,, m 7 ;:e 6g6@g-fiLE-* $ & & & w a g ... .
I .

1 3

II
" I

I

I
1

?@

w--ip.#

$3
I;&
- --

,

I

.-, * - . - r - . - '-

-

I3
..
I

tM,w.A.
%

..

.

.

, ,

,

I

_

>

-. . .,.P

,r& :; -.--. ; ... - amw-#>i cw $&,- .. , .;:
& ? I ,
,
I.

.r

.. -:2-. -

i
--

I

. --

- -

, ,

;.-='-.-

:b

*.

>!c..

>.,.I.C - ,

. !$&, * .-. ;
..

&klB!

V&@X

*;)
MY.
. <-:---

I

2-3

I

i $ # & ,

. ~ a e r )m , y name is .K&n
,,

!

i

2:g 33
24
I
I I

a & : *-!>.
.

qQYf
: '

$ & $ .-

-

--

,lust Ma.,? ..

:p.@g, -.
L-.,

-;a,
. .

wm p&~;@&$@g;
1

I
. . . . .. . .

-

.

I

Case I :05-cv-02791-LW

Document I 21

i n the lawsuit that's heen filed against u s
by Dr. Edward P a k r i c k .

I'm g o i n g to a s k you

a series of q u ~ s k i a n stoday r e l a t e d to that lawsuit.
Let me first ask you whether gouJve

ever had your depasitian taken before?
THE WITMESS t

Na

.
The prbees3 is a

MR- Z I W r

Okay.

f a i r l y simple one.
I

You're under oath,
FleaSe,

I

will ask yau qUesti,ahs.

iE

YOU

don't understand my question, a s k me, I i l l

t r y to rephrase it.

THE WITNESS:

Sure,

MB* ZIRM:

It's h p o x t a n t that wetre on

t h e same page arid uaders%,anding e a ~ h other

as best we can.
The only ather f o r m 1 i n s t > r t t c t i a n X 1 l l

give

yo^

is that if you wait a n t i 1 I finish

my question, I'IP wait until you finish your
I

answer.

It m a k e s it easier on the c a u r t

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 9 of 218

I
1

Page 9 MICHAEL BOWEN,

I I
1 1 1 1 I I

2 of lawful age, as having been duly sworn, was

3 examined and testified as follows:

CROSS-EXAMINATION

Q

Could you please state your full name

7 and address for the record.

Yeah.

Michael William Bowen, 7725

9 Anderson Oaks Drive, Cincinnati, Ohio 45255.

Q

How long have you been at that

lo 11 residence address?

About 18 and a half years. And did you receive a subpoena to be
14 here today?

I did.

Several.

Q

And I apologize for that.

I wanted to

17 cross the T t s and dot the I t s , so we served you a 18 second time because I believe your wife accepted 19 service the first time.

I

I can't remember.

I got one myself on
I accepted that

1 21 Friday evening probably about 9: 15.
22 personally. 24

(Whereupon, Defendantst Exhibit Number
1 was marked for identification.)

Case 1105-cv-02791-LW

Document I 21

Filed 0210712008

Page I 0 of 21 8

Let me hand you what I'm marking as
2 Defendantsf Exhibit 1 and ask you if that's an
3 accurate copy of

--

hat would be

-$ ~ g m f * @ FewQlk
-7%

,

,

& &

-

&&2A&1 m:t

&eke:,@WW&&t -- , jm gg?itz*v

p@

p w

Bamn?

'

MR. XFFREH BLAHKENSHIP:

.

1'11

.waive objeyetians to the n o t i c e and the

Mr. Bawen, what haye yay &me, if
15 anything, to p r e p a r e f o r today's deposition?
Really n o t much.

Did you review any documents?

There Mere some documents I believe
19 t h a t were sent maybe on a n o t h e r subpoena t h a t came to
20 me, b u t t h e documents were very difficult to read.
2 1 It looked like a verification I had done p r i o r , but 2 2 other t h a n that, no, I've r e a l l y not.

Thank you very much,
24 reviewed D r .

And you've not

Patrick's f i l e as maintained by Jewish

Case 1105-cv-02791-LW

Document I 21

Filed 0210712008

Page I Iof 218

No.
3 well,

Becaus,s I : f e l t I ,know it p r e t t y

4

I IQ

0 I didn't t h i n k

there was any need to.

Any meeting* with csGns'Grl?

Not d i r e c t l y .
6 just i b r Dm.

Per phone g e t t i n g --

-- Mr.

Harris just ,asking what w e n w d e d

7 ta do, l e t hkm know when I gat this j u s t
8 you kn$w,

to REV h i m ,

abreast of a11 of what was going on.
Any meetings with either Jeff a;r Mndy

Nu, s i r

I j u s t met them t h i s morning.

Any di;scussi,sns with Ds, Paiyick i k i t h e

13 weeks or months leading

-I j u s t met ax, P a t r i c k this

Nu, s i r
i

15 m a r n i 1 2 ' ~ f o r the firs't time. DO you ~ e c a l l
17 *Ben

--

you say you may have

yne

v e r i f i c a t i m that you had previbxzsly --

Them was something that came I
19 belie*

--

l i k e I s a i d , I got multiple subpoenas, and

20 I believe I gat one m a y h t w o weeks aga t h a t these
21 was another document attached,

I

It laaked l i k e a

22 Qi2rifi.Gati0a; But, agaifi, at t h e Wt.tm of it t h e r e
23 *a$ s b w t h i n g I wrote,
2 4 kind bf cut o f f .

I couldn't

read i t .

1

It was

Case 1 105-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 0210712008

Page 12 of 21 8

Page 12
Do you remember what h o s p i t a l ox
2 institution

I

'
I

---you were responding to?
sir.

1
I

It
I

I don't remember.

I

Just a l i t t l e b i t of b a c k g r ~ u n d , Mr,
T

1

1

mwen.li DQ you have a college degree?

i

!

I do.
From where?

I r v e gat many.
may.

I catl

--

g e t your pen out.

1 4 m writing.

1978, physician a s s i s k a n t s t u d i e s at
15 ~incidnatiTechnical College.

17

18 tjnivexait y of C i n c i n n a t i evening college; 1908,
1 ' 9 bachelor's -degree fram t h e University of C i n c i n n a t i ;
20 198>5,nursing degree from F h r i s t Hospital;
I

I

I

-Q
3

Okay

.

1979# en assaciat.elsdegree frAm the

199@,

21 @aste$@s in employment and labor relations,
22 ~ n i v e k s i t of ~ Cincinnajti.

What was yabr b%c:Ere1azt s degree from
24 the V iversity of C i n c i n n a t i ?

P

f
1

Case ,105-cv-02791 -LW
I

Document 121

Filed 0210712008

Page 13 of 2 18

Page 13

PSI
I

It's a multi

--

i t was

--

1 Bad fop2

2 majors/in it, psych, social a W n affairs,
3 cgiminklogy, Pad ccrrectlons.
4

-.
I

L

i
I

! 2

hnid you said, your l a s t was a fnastWTs
&

1

%&sk

I

--

and labor relatlerns-?
T h e MZiLER program, 1998.

I

Yes.

1
!
I I

1 don't want to %go in to too mueh
10 &tail,,
11

i
1
I

but where

--

A

Sure,

I

12
I

cl
t

Let's s t a c t with your present Pbnre are you p~esentlyemplayed?

I (
1

13 =iplo*nt.
14
I

I

A

I'm currently ehploysd a t the

I

I

15 U-nive ity HospitaL, and I'm the manager fax graduate

i

4"

I

16 medicdl adueatian and mid-level providers.

II

17

I

'I
i I

Rnd &at

daes that

--

what a m the

1 f? duties and re#pmiSiMlities of that position?

19

20 f u n e t l o n s of the office for graduate rnedieal
2 1 , education-.

Il

I

.a

Well, basically I manage t h e every day

22
23 -5nt

2 4 c o n t r cts.

-

1i
4

St's a very l a r g e job.

I
I

Yau have 585 residents aTid f a l l m s . databases f o r t h m , vexificatiuns,

We

i
/

ifi the

' B a ~ i o a l l yeverything that keep5 those
t

.

- .
1
I

--

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 14 of 218

Page 14 1 residencies running, make sure they're in
2 accreditation status.

We monitor that.

We do

3 budgets.
4

And then in addition to that I oversee

5 and manage the physician assistants, what's called 6 mid-level providers.
7

Q

I was going to ask about that.

That

8 refers to physician's assistants? 9 A Physician assistants and nurse You might hear that term -- several

1 0 practitioners.

11 terms, to mid-level providers, physician extenders, 12 basically the same thing. 13
14

Q
A

And you, yourself, are a physician's -I am.

-- assistant; is that correct?
16 17
A

That's correct. Do you work presently as a physician's

Q

18 assistant? 19
A

I currently have not done any clinical

2 0 work in about ten months.

I would like to.

21

Q

And University Hospital is currently

22 owned by Health Alliance; is that correct?
23

A

I believe they are. Does your paycheck come from --

Q

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 15 of 218

Page 15 It comes --

-- The Health Alliance?
It comes from The Health Alliance. Okay.
5 superior?

And who is your immediate

6

A

My immediate superior would probably be

7 Susan Greenwood Clark.
8
9

Q
A

And what's her title? She's the director of medical

1 0 education.

11 12 position?
13

Q

And how long have you held your current

A

I took that job on March 9 last year.
Of ' 0 6 ? Yes. And what was your position prior to

14

Q
A

16 17 that?
18
A

Prior to that I was the manager for

1 9 Division of Education at the university

-- for the

20 Department of Surgery, would be UC Surgeons.
21

Manager for the Division of --

22

A

Division of Education, correct.

And,

23 again, also mid-level providers. 24

Q

So part of your position was the same?

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 16 of 218

Page 16 Yes. The part regarding the mid-level? Med-levels. Correct.

So that didn't change in March of last

5 year?
6

A

I just moved over -- I didn't have as

7 much direct supervision of PA's when I moved over to

8 the manager for graduate medical education.

When I

9 was in the Department of Surgery, I had direct
10 supervision of them.
11 supervision now. 12

I don't have -- I have indirect

Q

And what were your duties and

13 responsibilities as the manager of the Division of 14 Education for the Department of Surgery?

Again, we had

-- the Department of

16 Surgery has I believe nine divisions: trauma, burn 17 surgery, thoracic surgery, vascular surgery,
18 urology.

I may be missing some.
And I was working in the Division of

19

2 0 Education to help maintain their accreditation, kind

21 of be the go-to person when it comes to helping with
22 their documentation to get their accreditation

23 status, help coordinators with the paperwork for

1 24 their programs.

Case 1105-cv-02791-LW

Document I 21

Filed 0210712008

Page I 7 of 218

Page I7

4

5

Most ,bf them aka accredited by what's
Cauricil f o r Graduate

7 dd'icail Education.

I1
I

4

So you're still involved with the

f~s3cWmta

1
I

-w*

%
Ql

-- in
Urn-h,

khat position?

&
I

Yeah.

@'

So haw l s n g d i d ypu hold thag position?

a
$av~ $ad t h a t

I task t h a t job on January 21, 2 0 8 3 .
S.0

I

:@'

a 1 P k t 1 , e aver three ybats ybu w u l d

17
1B

i

19 p o s i t m a

If
I

A

~~rrqct.
A n d

Q

prior to that what was ymr

A n d what was yous poetitba~t h e r e ?

Admf ndsksati've 4ireota.r af the
23 pepaWaene ,of &urrg-&~y.
24
1

I

And what

were those duties and

Case 1105-cv-02791-LW

Document I 21

Filed 0210712008

Page I 8 of 218

Page 18

2

3 sdmini&ration f o r t h e hgartnlefit of S u r g ~ r y , 1
I

I

'

A

Oversee t h e &$ly

~pe~atfana f a t khe

4 wsuld

m~r~e th a e s u r g i c a l seaidency program,
re~idsncy pxsgrm, and the surgical house

as t h e p h y s i c i a f i T s a s s i s t a n t s and n u f s e
7 @kactikionezs T and surgical assistants
I

I

.

13

9 &siti/on .am$ manages of the b%visi,onof Education, t h e
1

I

9

Let me back up ane ae,c:pnd. In your

10 DeparGment of S u r g e r y at University Hospital, who was

Ha was at t h e the?

Case 1105-cv-02791-LW

Document I 21

Filed 0210712008

Page I 9 of 218

I
1 ~ewish2
2
I

Fagq .%B

I

I
!
1 1

A

Yes,
Z l r r d

Yes.
$0

3

'

P

there'fare he wae you2 baas th-e!

4 entire t i m e ?
5
A
I

He was M e bass,. correct.

6

.Q

Who holds <that position now at Jewish

!

7 H'cr&pital?
I

1

I

8

,
I

A

Elliott Fegelma.

I

9 F-E-G-E-L-M-A-N.

11 sapiEal to go owes to University H o s p i t a l ? lo I 12 I A well, I had been at J e w i s h a long

I

11
What was your reason
~ Q Y leaving

Q

Jewish

II
3
v

13 time. The University Department of Surgery wanted to
14 develop a mid-level pkdvider program, a p h y s i c i a n
15 assistant progsarn, and they basically c m e t~ me and

'

!

1
I

' I

16 ~ s k e dme+ ' ,if I wquld be i-rrterast~d in, t3;tartirarg onex

I;

II
I

I

i

17 That . as p r e t t y much Mhat 1,ed me ta

T
1

--

thatT'$ what -1

I
I

18

l i k e to do.
€2
I

li
A t Jewish you had

1
I
h

19

no r e s p a n ~ i b i l i t yfor

i

20 khc ghysician assistants?

I
1

21
22

A

Oh, f b i d .
Oh, you did3

I

I

23
I

I
I

Q

1
also was a p r a c t i c i n g But this

1 did.

And I

24 phys&ian
I

assletant w i t h i n the department.

I
L

1

Case 1:05-cv-02791 -LW

Document 12 1

Filed 0210712008

Page 20 of 2 18

Page 20

BW ;m,sr. p.&@e; g
$,&. . . ,

....
\.?

& & &
,-.=,.
>>
..A

a * * . ; ;-=;
t

1I

* ;@*,@&&@
". - -.

.,.,

a; j s $ &
..

.-g:; , @$ ;;; &y

&&&(

lr;s'@&@f

4 g d

B&$q&$.B

Yes.

-- at

t h e time you made the switch?

Uh-huh.
Sa

Yes.

yaur ultimate employer didn'k:

I
I

11

h
I

Well, a c t u a l l y it did,
:Okay.

12
13

.. -

Q

I

!

A

When X I e ' f k Jewish I left The Health

14 ~llia$ce to j o i n wha.t was called UC Surgeons,.

1

i
&.
24 pos-i$an. .

@&&

J

, U I L ?

I
t

i
-

Y

I

Case 1.05-cv-02791 -LW

Document 121

Filed 0210712008

Page 21 of 21 8

Page 21
B

1
1

So your employer frm '83 to '06 w a s .

f ! \
!
I

UC Sargeorrs.
I

-Q

I

Surgeons?

'rn@@@dP,

&QDQ ~ W B my m %*a$*@mtkv%

I 1

i
I
I

i q k thatTs p r e t k y ql>ose,
I

11

!

(r A

p~ior ka t h a t what d i d you da?.

12

I
I

I

I worked ther& at $&wish Hd:spLtal, I
I
t

house staff g h g s i ~ h n assistant, and I considered what ma called a supervisor
15 F ) f th

I I

i

16' @ t a f f kand then was promoted up t i r administrative

I

f
I

physician assistants, or surgical a s s i s t a n t

1I
I

17 @irecpor.

i
I

I

A

W e l l , actually, I : s t a r t e d r k g h t out of
was there thraugh

--

I I

I'm t r y i n g to

22 t h i n d
I

i

-- probably August of
-- senior

'£31 I left f o r about nine

! 24 a&nidi&tr8tive

23 montds, went to t h e University of C i n c i n n a t i , was

I

administrative assistant in

I

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 22 of 218

Page 22
1 the operating room until April 1 of '82, and I

2 returned back to Jewish.
3
Q

Prior to '91 when you took on the

4 administrative director position, did you have any

5 responsibilities towards any of the residency
6 programs --

7
8

A
Q

No.

-- at Jewish?
Not really. In 1978 when you first started at

9 10

A

11 Jewish Hospital, what residency programs were

12 available at Jewish Hospital, accredited residency 13 programs?
14

A

The only ones I was aware of were

15 internal medicine and surgery. 16
(1

At some point in time you became aware

17 of a residency at Jewish Hospital which was termed a 18 flexible or rotating residency? 19 20
21

A

It's not a residency. Okay. Tell me what it is.

Q
A

You're either going to have an internal

22 medicine residency or you're going to have a surgery
23 residency.

24

Q

Okay.

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 23 of 218

Page 23 1
A

Now, many, many years ago residencies

2 -- positions in residencies were called different
3 things.

They were called interns.

They may have

4 been rotating internships.
5

They have evolved over time.

People

6 used to say interns.

That used to be considered a Well, that term has kind of

7 first-year resident. 8 gone away now.

Back in those days they used to have 10 what was called a flexible rotating internship. 11 These were for physicians who would come in and they 12 would get a month rotation in surgery, a month 13 rotation in orthopaedics, a month in internal 14 medicine. 15 It was flexible, just what it said. So

16 it wasn't an -- it wasn't -- it was still within the 17 Department of Surgery surgical residency program. 18

Q

Earlier when I asked you in '78 when

19 you started there you were only aware of the internal
20 medicine and surgical residency?

21
22

A

Um-hmrn. Were you at that time aware of the

Q

23 flexible rotating internship -24

A

No.

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 24 of 218

Page 24
1

Q
A

-- that you just described?
I was not aware of that. When did you first become aware that at

2
3

Q

4 some point in its history Jewish Hospital offered

5 such a program?
6

A

I don't know exactly.

As I said, I was

7 learning the process.

And, again, nomenclature

8 changed throughout the years.

9

It probably wasn't until I took on my

1 0 administrative job in '91 that I was aware that other

11 things existed, other kind of different -- I wouldn't
1 2 say programs.

It wasn't a program, just different

13 terms to rotations, I think I would say.

14

Q

Okay.

And I encourage you, as you just

15 did, to correct me, because I want to make sure we're
1 6 using the right terms.

17 18

A
Q

Oh, absolutely.

If I slip in "internship" when it

1 9 should be "residency," at least based on your 2 0 understanding of how you just defined it -21

A

Oh, absolutely.

I have always done

22 that and I will continue to.

I

23
24

And I will not

--

Because many people don't quite

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 25 of 218

Page 25
1 understand this business.

2 3 you do.

Q

Right.

And I will not be offended if

4

Oh, that's okay, and I'm not either. At any time in any of your positions at

5

6 either Jewish Hospital, UC Surgeons, or University

7 Hospital have you had any PR or media
8 responsibilities? 9
10

A

No. Is 1991, when you took on your

Q

11 administrative position at Jewish Hospital, is that 12 when you first became involved in responding to 13 verification requests for residents?

I want to say it is. And at that time how did Jewish

1

16 Hospital maintain its files for its past residents?

They were in a locked
18 always locked up.

--

they were

And if I recall, they were up on It was just where

1

1

19 the fifth floor of the hospital.

20 the things were under lock and key.

And how were they organized? Alphabetically. Alphabetically by resident? Yes. Per

--

just alphabetically by

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 26 of 218

Page 26
1 name.
2

Q

Were they divided between internal

3 medicine and --

4

A

NO, sir.

-6
7

surgery?

A

No. Did that change at all while you were

Q

8 administrative
9
10

--

A

No.

Q
A

--

director?

No. So the filing system was pretty much

12

Q

13 the same? 14

A

Absolutely.

There was no need to

15 change it.
16 17
Q

And did you have a key to the lock?
I did.

A

18

Q
A

From the beginning, from 1991? Yes. Because what we -- the way it was

19

20 is that the Department of Surgery offices were on the

21 first floor, internal medicine was up on the fifth
22 floor, and they had more access

-- they needed more
I wouldn't do that

23 access to the files than I did.

24 many verifications.

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 27 of 218

Page 27
1 2

Q

Okay. They did them pretty much every day.

A

3 So it was more of a logistics thing for them.

And why is that?

Why did they do more

5 verifications?
6

A

Well, they had much more residents.

7 Their residency is much, much larger than the

8 Department of Surgery's residency program.
9

Q
A

Give me an idea. They

--

they would

--

at one time I And the general

11 believe they had 1 8 or 2 5 residents.

12 surgery program is only 12 residents, and those

13 people would stay with you anywhere from one to five
14 years.

So we didn't -- we didn't have that many

1 5 verifications to do.

16

Q

Is there anyone that assisted you with

17 responding to verification requests? 18
19

A
Q

No.

I did.

Tell me the procedure you went through

20 when you received a request from an institution.

21

I would get the request, I would look

22 just to see where it was coming from, whom it was 23 for, because I had been there for a long time and 24 many times I might even know the person.

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 28 of 218

Page 28
1

I would go pull the file, I would

2 review the file, and pretty much we would

-- they

3 would ask the same questions, were they there, yes or
4 no, what were the dates, yes or no, and you would 5 sign your name.

And that was my process.

6
7

Q
A

Would you respond to verbal requests? No. I would pretty much require we

8 would like to have a waiver of liability preferably
9 from the applicant releasing us to release that 10 information. 11 12 13 Correct. 14

Q
A

So you required a written request? Something that showed that signature.

Q
A

I'm sorry. Written release or Yeah.

--

16

Q
A

-- waiver?
Waiver of liability with the applicant

17
18

-- or the person -- you know, the physician saying

19 it's okay to release that information 20

.

Q

And did you also require a written

21 request from the institution, or would you respond to 22 a verbal request if you got the waiver?

23

A

No.

As long as I had the

-- for

24 instance, the physician who

--

for instance, if you

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 29 of 218

Page 29 1 wanted me to release your information, I would want 2 your signature on the waiver okay'ing me to give that
3 information to the next party.

4 5

Q
A

Okay. No. At no point -- no. It has to come

6 from you, the person who's requesting it, you, as the
7 physician.
8

Q

Okay.

And how about a hospital that is

9 requesting verification

--

10 11 12
13

A

Same --- of a resident's --

Q
A
Q

Same thing. Okay. They have to give me something from the

14

A

15 -- them to release it. 16 Okay. Do they need to send you some

17 kind of separate form as well with their request?
18

A

I just

-- I

want something in writing

19 that says I can release, you know, the names, the 20 dates and the -- because, again, my policy is I'm -21 all I'm releasing is dates and attendance. 22 nothing else to release. We have

We're not releasing

23 anything about character, about somebody's technical

24 ability.
..
a

It's basically yes, you were here.
>

That's

.

LL,

-

>

-

- --

-=,

'.

-

: -7-

-

.

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 30 of 218

Page 30
1 all we have.
2 3 through

Q

And 1'11 be

--

we'll be going

-Sure.

4

5

-- a number of verifications.

And I've

6 seen on a number of them sometimes the institution 7 will request questions about character
8

--

A

Correct.

9

-Q

or qualities and --

10
11

Right. Were there ever occasions where you

12 would respond to that?

A

Typically not.

If there was a question

14 about that, what I would try to find in the file, if

15 I could, is something that might help them, as far as
16 a letter from the previous program director, 17 something of

-- I'm not qualified to give it.
So if I could help them, I would say,

18

19 well, here's a previous letter from the chairman who

20 might help your process. 21

Q

And would you personally go up and get

22 the file from the fifth floor? 23

A

Yes. You wouldn't send an assistant --

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 31 of 218

Page 31 No.

-- up to do that?
No. 4 Okay. You would refer to the file,

5 respond to the request?

6 7

A

I'm sorry? You would refer to the file and then

Q

8 prepare a --

Yes. 10 11 12 myself. 13

-- response to the request?
And then I would take the file back up

Q

Okay.

What documents would you expect

14 to find in a resident's file? Well, it can vary, because it depends 16 on how long ago the resident was at the institution, 17 and, again, how many years they spent with us at the 18 institution. 19 A surgical resident who may have been

20 there for a total of five years certainly would have 21 a bigger file than an intern or somebody who was 22 there only for a year. 23

Q

Okay.

Let me ask a few -- would you

24 expect to see a medical school transcript in that

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 32 of 218

Page 32
1 file?

2
3

You would hope to. Okay.

I would hope so.
i

4

Not -- not

--

I will share with you,

5 not every file had all the documentation in it.
6

Q

Sure.

Would it cause you any concern
I
h

7 if it didn't

--

if you didn't find a medical school

8 transcript in one of the resident's file?

9

A

Well, I would want to find out for Yeah.

10 myself some proof that the person did.

I

11 mean, I'm basically the -- you know, I'm the last 12 person. 13 So, yeah, I would like to see the

14 verification that they went to medical school.

I

I

15 even like to see some of the -- maybe the contract
16 that they signed for the institution, if it was

And also letters of reference that were 20 done while that resident was there at the hospital
21 by

--

you know, if he was in internal medicine, I

1

!

22 would like to see

--

just, again, that helps me
a

23 understand what I was doing.

Okay.

Would you expect to find

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
I

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 33 of 218

Page 33
1 evaluations done of the resident while he was a

1

2 participant in the program?
3

A

I would hope to see some.

Correct.

4

Q

And what's the norm for a resident at

5 Jewish as far as how often written evaluations are
6 completed for a resident?

7

A

Well, it

--

it's changed.

Back then

8 the requirements were a lot different than they are 9 today.

You might see them in the file after they

10 changed each rotation.

11

Q
A

Okay. You might see them every three It was

12

--

13 quarterly, every six months.
14 variant.

--

it was

Okay. Because, again, the requirements back

I

17 then

-- today if you're a resident we're requiring
Things have changed, so. But even

18 almost a written evaluation quarterly and it's got to 19 be in the file.

20
21 clear --

Q

Okay.

-- and just so we're

22

A

Correct.

-- back then we're referring to
24 basically the seventies or

--

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 34 of 218

Page 34 Yeah.

-- eighties?
Yeah. Okay. 5 6

A

Late seventies, early eighties. Okay. Based on your experience in

Q

7 reviewing resident files from that time period, what

8 did you typically find with regard to evaluations, 9 the frequency of written evaluations? 10 A It almost seemed like when they did --

11 they finished their rotations, perhaps, their month, 12 if they were on orthopaedics maybe the orthopaedic 13 surgeon would send a note in, handwritten note. 14 15
16

Q

Okay. But, again, it would be variant. Correct. Some I would see more frequently than

17 18 others. 19

Okay. There really wasn't anything consistent

21 about it.

22

Q

Would you expect to find even from that

23 time period the rotation schedule that the resident

24 followed?

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 35 of 218

Page 35 Not necessarily. Okay. Not necessarily. Would you find that today for the more
5 recent resident? 6

A

Probably not.

You won't see a rotation

7 schedule in their file.
8 that information.

We don't

--

we don't have

Now, the department might, but

9 you wouldn't see that in a personnel file.
10 be

You would

--

you would be lucky if you did, but typically

11 you would not see that. 12 13 you this:

Q

Okay.

I understand -- well, let me ask

What kind of licensure, if any, does a

14 resident need to have to participate in a program?

Currently you need either a full,
16 unrestricted license to practice in the state of 17 Ohio.

It's called a resident training certificate.

18 Training certificates are given each year.

19

I believe you can have up to six
You know, each

20 individual training certificates.
21 year you get it renewed.

And that gives you a

22 license to practice as a resident or a fellow. 23

Q

And do you know how long that

24 requirement has been in effect?

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 36 of 218

Page 36 1 2 A

I do not.
Do you know, if we go talk again about

Q

3 the back then period in the seventies and eighties,

4 what requirement a resident needed to have as far as
5 licensure?

6 7
8

A
Q

I don't know. Okay.

A

I wouldn' t know.
And that training certificate, would

9

Q

10 that be in the resident's file?

11

A

If I recall back, we would send a

12 letter to the medical board with the following
13 physicians that would need a training certificate, 14 and I can't tell you back then if we got a copy in 15 each file. 16

I know we had to send it on, the

17 medical board would get it, and they would issue a
18 training certificate. 19 individual in there.

I don't recall seeing an

20

Q

Okay.

And you would send a letter to

21 the medical board listing the individuals who were in
22 the

-When I did the --

23
24

-- residency program?

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 37 of 218

Page 37 1 A At one point I was involved with that.

2 They would say, okay, we have to issue training
3 certificates; who are the following residents that

4 need them.

You would fill out a document and send it

5 to the medical board.
6

And I don't recall ever getting

7 individual certificates on them to put into their
8 file.

If they occurred, I did not do it, was not

9 aware of it.
10
1 1

Q

You didn't put it in the file? No. Did you see them in the file when you

A

12

Q

13 would do verification requests?

14

A

I can't tell you that I did.

No.

I

15 really didn't.

It hasn't really been until recently

16 that we're starting to see those in files, but back

17 then I don't recall seeing them.
18

Q

Okay.

And when you say recently see

19 them in files, can you give me an estimate of how
20 many years?

21

A

Actually, since I

-- the last four
I

22 years since I've been here at the university. 23 mean, it's

-- again, the requirements and the

1

24 verification stuff has just gotten even more

I

Case 1 105-cv-02791 -LW

Document I 2 1

Filed 02/07/2008 Page 38 of 2 18

g
.. -

,.

(..I

::

i

, & % m i
..

.

,. .

z
3 has ch,angcd.

M d t h e medical. boZard,.t.0 t W i P : ' z & d i t , , .

They have a website that now we. c$n go

&

can

;p-,

:w

: & $ c e n m$@E+r@N@@% + f:
: ,

: , @ ~ , .->.: ~ ~g .,.? ~ ?q& .@&g .-... ;
8
?

*

g~@&@j@@ g

&j

=&EgaW.&%

i
I

I

from medf.~ai 3 1 .
&@ &&@&?& @&
--,

x&'*l&j

B 3 5 W W F

m& > ;,

k&&&,&!

I
* :

2:

+-.:>.

,-,>,--,

:

:m.

g w *g@j

&;g &-@$a;&; *. ...L-. -~;'; ,;
>
:

~

w

M ~ >g@H *

&
I

~

1

,

&+*

&hanged ,al o t .
I

A

1

t

A

I
1
4

@

I I

I

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 39 of 218

Page 39
1

'

A

Yes. Okay.

Actually, they had many.

2
3

Q
A

I can tell you there was a young lady There

4 by the name of Christine Rupkey, R-U-P-K-E-Y.

5 was somebody by the name of Sandra Fist, F-I-S-T.
6 And, again, I'm only getting that because I've seen

7 them in files that I've recently done.
8

Q
A

Sure. But they had a lot of turnover. Okay.
You didn't necessarily have

)

I

9
10

Q

11 contact with that person
12 13

--

A

No.

Q
A

-No.

on a daily basis? No, sir.

14

15
16

Q
A

Okay. I may talk to them once every six

17 months.

Would the resident file contain a
19 certificate of completion with regard to the 20 residency program?

MR. JEFFREY BLANKENSHIP:

You mean now,

or back then? Let's start with back then. Back then, not necessarily. I can't

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 40 of 218

Page 40
1 remember seeing many, if they did.
2

Q

And would that span your entire time at
t

3 Jewish you don't remember seeing many?
4

I can't

--

to be quite frank, I don't

5 remember seeing a lot.
6
Q

Are you familiar, does Jewish issue a
d

7 certificate of completion?

8

A

They have -- yes, they do.

They do.

9 The problem is, is a lot of times when they

--

these

10 were issued they wouldn't necessarily make a copy and

11 put them in the file unless somebody was heads up and
12 did it.
1
f

13

They would typically give it to the

14 resident, the resident would take it and go on about

15 their business.

They wouldn't make a file and put it

16 in -- a copy and put it in the file.
17

Q

And were you at all involved in the
I

18 processing, for lack of a better word, of the
19 certificate of completion? 20

,

A

No.

All we would have to do

--

we

21 would have to submit -- I did it on several
22 occasions, the name, the years of attendance.

23

We would give it -- they would print

24 out a certificate, we would get it on their

--

the
--

_ _ I

__-m____W-

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 41 of 218

Page 41
1 certificates were printed outside of the 2 organization.

They were brought back in. We would get the signatures of the

3

4 hospital, Dr. Wright, CEO of the hospital, and then
5 it would be presented to the residents at their
6 graduation ceremonies.
7

Q

So your role would be to submit names

8 to the outside organization?
9

A

Yeah.

They would go out and print

10 these nice-looking little documents, and we would 11 bring them back and present them to them. 12 print them inside.

We didn't

13

Q

And did your office or you have the

14 responsibility for actually getting the signature of, 15 say, the director of surgery?

16
17 18 them? 19

Yes.

Yes.

Give him a stack and he would sign

A

Well, we're only talking three.

Yeah.

20 He would sign them.

I would stand there and watch

21 him, make sure he did it. 22
Q

Okay.

To your knowledge does Jewish

23 maintain separate employment-type files on its
24 residents?

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 42 of 218

Page 42 1
2
A

No knowledge.

Can't tell you.

Q

Would you find in the resident files

3 that you're familiar with compensation records?

4

A

You might. Okay. You might. Like payroll stuff? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. You might,

11 12

Q
A

But in the matter of course did you? Some I did, some I didn't. Again, that

13 would help with verification.

When I would get a

14 verification to prove that somebody was there, I 15 would like to -- I would like to see things that, 16 like I said, a signed contract, employment -- pay 17 stubs or something from the benefits office, that 18 would do it.
19

Some might have it, some might not. So there's a separate what you call a

Q

20 benefits office? Well, no. Not -- no. No. What this

22 is is back in the old days they would try to put

23 everything in those files.
24 kinds of communication.

I mean, you would see all

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 43 of 218

Page 43 But, again, it was very dependent on
2 who was putting the documents in the file, would it

I 1 I I
1
1

3 get into the file.

But you would hopefully see some

4 of those things.

Q

Did there ever come a time where

6 you're -- in response to a verification you're
7 seeking more information about that resident and you

8 would go to another resource --

No.

-A
12

within Jewish?

Pretty much not.

I mean, most

everything I needed was pretty much in their files. Okay. When we moved from downtown out to
15 Kenwood, there were files that -- old files, very, 16 very old, of physicians that I believe were left in
1 7 the Alliance Business Center, but I really very

18 seldom had any access to get to those.

Like old But we

1

1 9 X-rays.

There was a lot that were archived.

20 only had one file.

Okay.

And when did that move occur?

November 1997. And when you were describing the
24 physical layout, that the files were on the fifth

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 44 of 218

Page 44 1 floor, were you describing the Kenwood facility or
2 downtown?
3
4 5

A

Downtown facility. And then what was the setup in Kenwood? Well, we had two. When we first moved

Q
A

6 to Kenwood we moved out to the new facility and we
7 were I believe on the seventh floor. And all the 8 resident files

--

we shared offices with internal

9 medicine, and we had an open space, and all the files
10 were right there where I could see them. 11

Q
A

Okay.

Still under lock and key?

12

Urn-hrnrn, They were locked. And still maintained the same way by --

14 alphabetically by resident? 15

A

Yes. What would the bare minimum be for you

16

Q

17 to -- let me rephrase that. 18

What would you need as a minimum to

19 verify residency, to find in the file?
20

Probably

--

it's like putting a puzzle

21 together.

I would go through the file -- and, again,

22 as I got to do this I would know many of these
23 residents, so I knew they were there.

I could prove

24 that.

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 45 of 218

Page 45 1 For people I did not know back before

2 my time, I would take the file, I would look to see 3 if there was payroll information, letters of
4 reference, anything that I could do to kind of really

5 verify that that person was actually there, any kind 6 of documentation that we could find.
7

Not one particular -- I didn't look for I tried to look

8 one particular piece of information.

9 for multiple, just to verify the dates, that they
10 were correct, everything that was factual.

11 12 documentation.

So it may be several pieces of It may be a -- it may be an

13 evaluation, a letter from the chairman, things of 14 that nature. 15

Q

Would you verify a request if the only

16 thing you found in the resident's file was the

17 contract? 18 19 that's
20
21

A

If it was strictly just a contract and a verifiable --

-Q
A

Nothing else. I would be hard pressed to do that. Was it signed? Did the person
I

22 mean, a contract?
23 actually attend?

I would have to see proof that they

24 were there.
- _
I . .
- 1

"-

2

.

ZL--

r.-

-_ ,

_ ---_ =--. - --

-=-

m x r -

-

--,

->

.

--

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 46 of 218

Page 4 6

1

Q

Okay.

And you say you've been -- you

2 were working -- started at Jewish in 1978?

Yes, sir. But I think you said that today's the
5 first time you met Dr. Patrick?

I've never met Dr. Patrick until this

Did you know of him -I --

-- at that time?
NO, sir, I did not. The other thing I wanted to tell you,
13 Mr. Bowen, is whenever you want to take a break, let
14 me know.

Fine. Can you think of an occasion where you

I
I

17 ever provided a verification without a release from
18 the physician?

I can't remember too many times I would
20 do that.

So you may have? I don't think I ever did. Who is Pam King? Pam? Pam is the resident coordinator

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 47 of 218

Page 47
1 for internal medicine.

2 3

Q
A

That's her current position? That's correct. And I believe her name

4 now is Wilson, but it was Pam King.
5
6

And that's at Jewish Hospital? Correct.
Did she work with you while you were at

7 8 Jewish? 9

Yes. What was her -- was she -- did you

11 supervisor her?

12

A

No.

We were -- she was resident

13 coordinator, and we would work as -- together on

14 things that came up in the residency.

She maintained

15 internal medicine residency stuff and I did surgery, 16 so we would work collegially. 17

Q

Okay.

So she would -- she would be

18 responding to internal medicine verification -19
20
21

A

That's correct,

Q
A

-- requests?
Um-hmrn .

22

Q

I'm going to show you a series of

23 verifications.

24

A

Okay.

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 48 of 218

Page 48
1

Q

As you may or may not know from Mr.

2 Harris, we did subpoena records from Jewish
3 Hospital.
4

A

Okay . They provided a lot of records. MR. ZIRM: Jeff, I assume that the last

batch of documents we sent you we said we weren't sending you the Jewish Hospital records. MR. JEFFREY BLANKENSHIP: already had them. MR. ZIRM: them. MR. JEFFREY BLANKENSHIP: Right. You Because you already had Because I

had already provided them to me.

I don't

think they were Bates stamped yet, so I can't verify that we got every page. There's so many volumes. MR. ZIRM: Right. But we did

MR. JEFFREY BLANKENSHIP: receive a group of documents --

MR. ZIRM:

Right.

MR. JEFFREY BLANKENSHIP:

-- that you

labeled as Jewish Hospital documents.

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 49 of 218

Page 49 MR. ZIRM: Okay.

(Whereupon, Defendants' Exhibit Number
2 was marked for identification.)

Q

Let me hand you, Mr. Bowen, what I've Exhibit 2 is a

5 marked as Defendants' Exhibit 2.

6 three-page document, the first page of which is a
7 letter addressed to the director of medical education

8 from a Rita Doebert at the Practitioner Credential 9 Verification Center.
10 at this?

Have you had a chance to look

Um-hmrn. All right.
13 before?

Have you seen this document

A

Well, obviously I saw it back in 1995. Let me -- the first question I wanted

Q

16 to ask you -- well, I guess the first question I'll
17 ask you is on page two there's a signature at the
18 bottom with your printed name.

Is that your

19 signature? That is correct. Okay. So apparently you signed this on

22 June 14, 1995, correct?
23

A

Correct. And on the first page, if you look at

24

Q

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 50 of 218

Page 50
1 the verification

-- I'll call it request -- it

2 indicates that Dr. Patrick has made application for

1

3 medical staff privileges to an area hospital.
4 According to the application, Dr. Patrick served an 5 internship at your hospital, and it labeled it
6 1975-1976 transitional.

Do you see that?

I see that. What did that mean to you? Nothing. Is that a term of art? No. Okay. Because as I tried to explain to you
14 this morning, people use terms very interchangeably

It doesn't mean anything to me.

I

15 in this business.

And it's trying to educate people.

So when they said transitional,
17 flexible, you know, we can -- these terms are
18 interchangeable.

That did not mean anything to me.

Okay. A Because I

-- because, again, as many of

I

21 these as I've seen, typically nomenclature is
22 incorrect when we get these.

Okay. And there's a lot of stuff that's lost

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 51 of 218

Page 51 1 in translation. And I will share with you some of

2 the verifying people don't know what they're asking

3 for.
Okay. Okay. So when I got this --

So to you transitional didn't -Didn' t mean --

-- mean a thing? -- beans.
Because if you look at my

10 second page, I restated exactly what he had done at
11 Jewish Hospital.

12 13

Q

Okay. If I -- I want what he did, what says

A

14 it in the file, and that's what I put there.

Okay.
16

And according to your response

-- and, again, is this all your handwriting?
A
That's correct. Okay.
So

17 18
19

Q
A

Dr. Edward --

It's pretty good, actually. Not bad.

20
21 22

Q
A

I can read it.

It's pretty good. And I noticed that you often would It wasn't

Q

23 respond with just a handwritten response.
24 necessarily --

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 52 of 218

Page 52 Yeah.
I --

--

a formal, d i c t a t e d l e t t e r ?

Heck no. Okay. No.
6

I t ' s t o o much t i m e .

Q
A

Okay.
I d o a l l my own s t u f f by m y s e l f .

7
8

Q

Okay.

You d i d n ' t h a v e a s e c r e t a r y a t

9 your d i s p o s a l ?
10
A

I did, but I d i d n ' t use it.

I ' m pretty
I come

11 much

-- I d o my own t h i n g s b e c a u s e , a g a i n , i f

1 2 t o a n i n c i d e n t l i k e t h i s , I'm t h e o n e r e s p o n s i b l e f o r
13 t h e s e t h i n g s .
14

Q

Okay.

Dr.

--

l e t me j u s t p r e f a c e t h i s

1 5 by s a y i n g t h a t t h i s

--

b a s e d on t h e r e c o r d s w e

1 6 r e c e i v e d from J e w i s h H o s p i t a l , t h i s was t h e f i r s t

--

17 c h r o n o l o g i c a l l y t h e f i r s t v e r i f i c a t i o n t h a t I could
1 8 f i n d t h a t you 19
A

-Okay.

20 21

Q
A

---

s i g n e d o f f on

--

Okay. i n 1995.

That's f a i r . Would you s u r m i s e t h a t t h e r e w e r e n ' t

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 53 of 218

Page 53
1 any between '91 and '95 because you didn't get any 2 regarding Dr. Patrick?

3

A

All I can tell you is what you see. Okay.
If this is what you have, I -- you -- I

6 can't tell you.

I honest to gosh don't know.
And I may

1

Q

Okay.

--

there are a couple

8 of earlier ones I may show you in that time period

--

Sure.
10 11

And if I --

Q
A

-- and we can talk about i,t.
-- had done earlier ones, I'm not aware

12 that I did. 13 14

Q
A

Okay. But if they're there and I've signed

15 it, then obviously I did. 16

Q

Okay.

And your response was that Dr.

17 Edward A. Patrick served 18 19 20 21

--

served?

A

Served.

Q
A

-- a rotating -A rotating internship.

Q
A
Q

--

internship?

22 23

Urn-hmm

.

--

from September 1, 1975 through

24 August 31, 1976 with an emphasis on surgery?

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 54 of 218

Page 54 1 2 A Correct. My question to you is, where did you

Q

3 get that information from?
4

A

I believe that was in his file.

Again,

5 this -- everything that I get is from a file.
6

Q

As you sit here today do you recall

7 what particular pieces of paper you -8
9

A

No.

Q
A

-- referred to?
(Shakes head. ) As you sit here today do you recall

11

Q

12 what

--

because over the years you had a number of

13 occasions to look at Mr. -- at Dr. Patrick's file. 14 Is that fair? 15
16

A

Correct. Okay.

That's fair.

Q

As you sit here today do you

17 recall what you found in Dr. Patrick's file when you 18 checked?
19
20 There

A

Well, there was many documentation.

-- I believe there was some payroll information
Because as I started to do verifications

21 in there.

22 and as I saw more than one for Dr. Patrick, I wanted 23 to make sure that I had the exact information, that 24 it was factual and correct.

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 55 of 218

Page 55
1

So I went through the chart just for my Is this what we've got, do we have
1 I

2 own knowledge. 3 it.

Because, again, it's like anything else, you're And I would not

4 only as good as that documentation.

5 want to put anything on a piece of paper that was not 6 factual. 7
i

So I had things that I looked at.

To

8 this day I can't remember, but there was some -- when 9 he was paid, may have been some -- that he had
10 rotated in 11

--

rotated on different services. Do you remember what document that was
?

Q

12 indicated on? 13 14 15

A

No. Okay.

It was a document in the file.

Q
A

Again, it was probably, you know, like

16 some of the guys

-- like you asked before about
I believe Dr.

17 schedules, some people may have it.

18 Patrick's did have it, where it would say he may be 19 doing orthopaedics, he might be doing internal

20 medicine, he might be doing surgery, things of that
21 nature. 22

Q

Okay.

Do you remember any other

23 documents that you saw in his file over the years?
24

A

I can't right at this moment.
-.

...--

-.----.

-____..

__

_ _ l m l i P i _ : l i =

_ . .

L

I

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 56 of 218

Page 56
1

Q

Did t h e r e come a p o i n t where you would Patrick

2 get a request f o r verification regarding Dr.

3 a n d you w o u l d n ' t n e c e s s a r i l y g o u p t o t h e f i f t h f l o o r

4 a n d g e t t h e f i l e a n d l o o k a t i t b e c a u s e you h a d

5 become f a m i l i a r w i t h h i s f i l e ?

6

A

No.

No.

I s t i l l would -- I would

7 still hold t h e file.

Because, a g a i n , I wanted t o

8 h a v e i t b e f o r e m e , b e c a u s e I l o o k e d a t what I h a d
9 written before.

Okay.
11

And would t h a t be i n t h e f i l e ?

I would h o p e e v e r y -- e v e r y t h i n g t h a t I

1 2 d o f o r a n y f i l e I make a c o p y a n d p u t i t i n t h e f i l e .
13
14 15

Q
A

And d o you p e r s o n a l l y do t h a t -I d o --

Q

-- y o u r s e l f ?

--

personally do t h a t . You make y o u r own c o p y ?

Okay.

I m a k e my own c o p i e s .

And p u t i t i n t h e f i l e ?

Put i t i n t h e f i l e , hand d e l i v e r t h e
2 1 f i l e where I g o t i t .

Nobody d o e s i t f o r m e .

I ' m not

22 -- I d o n ' t h a v e t h a t l u x u r y . 23

Q

Okay.

Is t h e r e a -- d i d a n y o n e e l s e

24 h a v e t h e key t o t h a t --

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 57 of 218

Page 57
A

I believe Pam

-I

Q
A

-- filing -Pam King did. Okay. Was there ever a time where you

!

Q

5 went and a file wasn't there you were looking for? 6

A

No.

I can't say that there were.

The
,

7 problem we had sometimes is that they might not be
8 alphabetized, and placed back in the wrong spot.
9

i

But, no, pretty much once -- and

10 especially with foreign physicians, you don't know if

11 their first name is their last name, so you may have
12 to do some hunting and pecking.

But they were there.

13 I've never had a problem where I couldn't find a

14 file.
15

Q

Was there any kind of -- did you have

16 to sign the file out?

No.

No.

With regard to Dr. Patrick's file, was
19 there ever a time where you sought additional 20 documentation to put in his file

--

--

from anywhere else in the hospital?

There was no need to. Was there ever a time when you

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 58 of 218

Page 58

1 interviewed anybody, talked to, discussed, asked
2 people at Jewish about Dr. Patrick?

3

A

I think Pam King.

Because if I -- if

4 you look in your -- I think Pam had done some 5 verifications.

6
7

Q
A

Okay. And I had asked Pam, I said, did you do

8 some verifications on him, and she had acknowledged
9 that she had,

And, again, if you look at people

10 before me that maybe have done some stuff, too. 11 12
13 do this?

Q
A

Okay. But other than that, no, just did you

Yes.

Okay. Nothing more than that? Huh-uh. Did you ever have a discussion with

14 15

Q
A

17 Creighton Wright about Dr. Patrick?

18

A

I don't -- I think I told him in the

19 early -- or later in the process that I had done 20 verifications on this particular individual more than
21 once.

22

I kept him abreast of it.

But it was

23 on -- it was no more than a laundry list of things

24 that we would discuss in a day.

It wasn't anything

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 59 of 218

Page 59

1 that was highlighted.
2

Q

Do you remember the context of that

3 conversation with Dr. Wright at all?

4
5

A

(Shakes head. ) Do you remember anything about what

Q

6 else might have been discussed in that conversation?
7

A

No.

Typically I would keep him And

8 apprised of what would go on in the department. 9 the reason I would speak to him about this is
10 because, again, I would get

-- you know, we would get

11 multiple verifications.
And I said, I just want you to know
13 I've done it, this person -- well, I've done it, just
14 so you're aware of it.

Not

--

not out of fear, not

15 out of concern, just FYI. Because it had been multiple? It had been multiple. But as we all

18 know, with emergency-medicine physicians, they do

19 locum tenens, they

-- they go multiple places, and we

20 see multiple requests, which isn't unusual for

21 emergency-medicine physicians.

Do you recall Dr. -- I'm getting them
23 confused in my head
24

--

Creighton Wright -Um-hrnrn.

A

Dr. Wright.

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 60 of 218

Page 60
1

Q

I know a Creighton Miller.

Dr.

2 Wright's response when you informed him that there
3 had been multiple verification requests regarding Dr.

4 Patrick?
Not really.
6 response to be made.
7 information sharing.

There was nothing -- no

It was -- again, it was just

Turning back to Exhibit 2, to your

1

9 handwritten notes, after you indicate that he had

10 served a rotating internship, you indicate having not

11 worked or known Dr. Patrick, I cannot answer any of 12 the above questions.
13 before --

I think we talked about that

That's correct.

-- when they got in to qualifications

You would see, I suspect, as you've
18 researched this, it's pretty consistent across the

Okay.

I am not qualified to give it.
(Whereupon, Defendants' Exhibit Number

3 was marked for identification.)

Q

Handing you what has been marked as

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 61 of 218

Page 61
1 Defendants' Deposition Exhibit Number 3.

Take a

2 moment and review that document. 3 4
5
6 mine.

A
Q A

(Peruses document.) Mr. Bowen, can you identify Exhibit 3? I can exhibit -- I've not -- that's not

7
8

Right. Correct. Can you identify what it is? It looks like it's for the Alabama

9 10

11 Board of Medical Examiners, requesting verification

1

12 for Dr. Patrick.
13

Q

It appears to have been signed --

14 filled out by a Steven D. Friedmann? Correct. Who was he? Steve was a colleague of mine. He had He

18 -- he actually had my position before I got it.

19 was administrative director for surgery, and then got 20 moved up to medical -- you know, director of medical 21 education for the hospital. And Steve had done

22 verifications on this prior to.

Q

Any explanation as to why he was

24 responding to this one in October of 1995?

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 62 of 218

Page 62
1

A

The only thing I can see here it says It was directed -- it

2 medical education director.

3 went to him.

Some of these verifications as we get

4 them require certain signatures.

5

Although I was administrative director,

6 it says here director of medical education, which he

7 was. 8

And that's why he did it. To this day we will see verifications,

9 and it is not appropriate for the manager for
10 graduate medical education to authorize them,

11 particularly with the medical boards. 12 They want program director, they want

13 chairman, or they want the -- what's called the DIO,
14 designated institutional official, and

-- especially

15 with the medical boards.
16

I can tell you that not anybody's
And in this case, this

17 signature is what they want.

18 would be appropriate for the director of medical 19 education to sign it, because that's what they asked.
20

Q

So if you saw that the signature line

21 called for the medical education director, you might 22 forward it to them?
23 24
..
4 .

A Q
*

Oh, it wouldn't be might. Okay.
I
I

I would.

..

--i

X 2

2

W A 7

r

-7

r -

=1

L

*-

-

.. . .

,

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 63 of 218

Page 63
1

A

Because, again, that's what's required. Okay. They're very specific. And, as I said,

2
3

Q
A

4 in verifications there are some that are very
5 specific and some that are not.
6 those that I'm permitted to. 7 8 that
9

And I only answer

Q

And would you pull the file for him on

-Probably

--

10

-- occasion?
A Not necessarily, unless I was asked

11
12 to.

And Steve's office at the time was up on the

13 fifth floor with medicine, so he may have gotten -- I 14 mean, I don't know how it went about, but

-I I

Q
16

Okay.

-- that would have been his call.

17 would have not gotten

--

there would have been

--

18 wouldn't have even known this existed. 19 20

Q
A

Okay. Because, again, I will share with you

21 that when the -- when paperwork would come to the 22 hospital, it might be specifically stated director of

23 medical education.

So I may not have even

--

I've

24 never seen it.

Case 1 :05-cv-02791 -LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008 Page 64 of 218

Page 64 1 2 3

Q
A

Okay. So it may have bypassed me altogether. You see that the dates of the

Q

4 internship or first-year residency given in this 5 document are July 1, 1976 to June 30, 1977?
6

A

That's what it says. Okay. And if you look back on Exhibit

7

Q

8 2, those are different than the dates you gave?
9

A

Correct. Any explanation for that?

10 11 12

Q
A

I cannot explain it.
What's the typical start date for the

Q

13 residency -- the surgical residency program? 14

A

Well, it -- it varies.

You'll see some

15 residents start on July 1, you may see some start

16 before, and you may see some starting after July 1.
17 It just depends.

18

Q

But don't the majority start on the

19 same date? 20

A

Not necessarily.

Again, some

21 residencies start them a few days earlier, some start 22 them on the 1st. Some like them to come in early,

23 get acclimated to the system so they can hit the door
24 running on July 1.

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 65 of 218

Page 65
1

Q

So is July 1, though, a -- from Jewish

2 Hospital's perspective the -3

A

I think July 1 was --

4
5

Q

-- typical start date? -- pretty much the start date.
Yeah.

6
7 it?
8

And that's kind of nationally, isn't

A

Well, not necessarily -- well, yes.

9 You're within about two weeks of that start date.

10 the University some come in about the 20th and start,
11 some people
12

-The 20th of June? The 20th of June. Okay. They get them in, they're interns, we

Q
A

13

14 15

Q
A

16 put them through training so that when July 1 gets

17 here they're up and running so much in the
18 institution.
19

Some folks are what's called For various reasons they're coming from

20 off-cycle.

21 different residencies, they have paperwork that

22 they -- Visa's, things like that.
23 until the middle of the month.

They may not start

But pretty much we

24 try to shoot for that July 1 date.

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 66 of 218

I
1

Page 66

Q

I understand at some point Medicare

2 became a funder for residency programs?

3
4

A

Correct. Do you know about when that occurred?

Q
A

5 6

I do not know.
Okay. Was that the case the entire

Q

7 time you were administrative director at Jewish
8 Hospital?

9

A

I don't -- I don't have much knowledge
I know that

10 about the Medicare funding.

--

you know,

11 obviously if you're a teached institution you get X 12 amount of dollars to train residents, but I can't 13 tell you when that came about or how much. 14

Q

And there's a specific number of slots

15 in the residency program

--

16
17
18
19

A

Correct.

Q
A

--

available every year?

Correct. And I think your testimony is it's --

Q

20 for the surgical residency program at Jewish it's 21 about 12?

22

A

Well, it is currently.

But back many The

23 years ago it wasn't as regulated as it is today.

24 ACGME back when I started at Jewish

--

and I could be

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 67 of 218

Page 67
1 wrong

--

there were 18 residents in surgery. Q Okay. So

2 3

A

--

and back then residencies were They had what's

4 different than they are today.

5 called paramatal systems.

You would bring in 35

6 residents, and through the process they would work
7 their way up and they would only graduate X.

So they

8 would have more residents than they had spots.

But residents would come in, spend
10 maybe one or two years of training, and move on to 11 some other specialty.

But now the ACGME is pretty

12 much regulating how many residents, and you're not 13 permitted to have paramatal tracks any more. 14
15

Q
A

Do you know when that change occurred?

I would have to tell you it was -- I -I'm guessing. Late nineties.

16 late nineties.
17

Q

Did you ever see anything in Dr.

18 Patrick's file that explained to you why he was

-- he

19 started on September l?

Huh-uh.
21
22

Q

Did you ever ask anybody that question? Huh-uh. Because as I just said before,

A

23 it's not -- back then people were coming in to

24 programs, they would be off-cycle.

They still do

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 68 of 218

Page 68
1 it.

I didn't -- didn't think too much of it.

2
3

Q
A

So you saw that a lot?
I'm sorry?

So you saw that a lot? 5 A I would see people starting on It didn't

6 different times.

-- it didn't concern me.

7
8 9

(Whereupon, Defendants1 Exhibit Number
4 was marked for identification.)

Q

Handing you what I've marked as

10 Defendants1 Deposition Exhibit Number 4. 11 12

MR. ZIRM:

I think I have an extra copy

of almost all of them. MR. RANDY BLANKENSHIP: Thank you.

13
14

Q

Have you had a chance to review this

15 document? 16 17

A

Um-hmrn

.

Q

It's a two-page document which appears

18 to consist of a verification request and response. 19 I'll ask you again on the second page is that your

20 signature -21

A

That's correct.

22
23

Q
A

--

Mr. Bowen?

Urn- hmrn

.
. . -.
&

24
-

Q

So apparently you signed this on
.

. -. ..------..

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 69 of 218

Page 69
1 February 7, 1996?
2
3

A
Q

Correct.
And this is a form they provided for

4 you; is that correct?

5
6
7
8

I believe it looks like part of a form.
!

Q
A

Okay. Because we put a letterhead to it.

1

Q

I see.

I'm sorry.

This is all a
i

9 response?

10

A
Q
A This is your response? Um-hmm . I'm sorry. No. That's I misspoke earlier.

11 12 13 14

Q
A

--

this is

--

obviously I
I

15 didn't hand write this one, but -16 17 A Right. Because, again, I put additional

18 information on it for them, but this is the document.

19

Q

And on the

--

if you look at the top
I

20 of the second page it's got the re line, regarding
21 line, where it 22
23

-talks about regarding Edward

!
!
\

A

Yes.

Q

--

I

24 Patrick, M.D., date, 7 - ' 7 5 to 6-'76, transitional

i

.-

I _

-.

-

_-,_ = _

_ _ I _ * ,

-

-7

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 70 of 218

Page 70 1 internship? 2
3

A

U r n -hmrn . So again we see that transitional term? Correct. It didn't mean anything to you? Also the dates. You see the wrong dates? I see the wrong dates. Okay. And then your handwriting says

Q
A

1 0 it's from September 1, '75 to August 31, '76?

11

A

U r n -hmm . Type, flexible intern? U r n -hmrn .

12 13 14
15

Q
A

Q

Am I reading that correctly?
Urn- hmrn

.
Is that what it

16
17 says?

And then for one year?

18
19

It says yes, for one year completed. Okay. Because he was there for a total of 12

21 months. 22

Q

Okay.

And then your cover letter

23 indicated that, same thing, he served as a flexible
24 intern -- you're using that term -- with emphasis on

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 71 of 218

Page 71
1 surgery?

2
3

A

Um-hmm

.

Q

Do you recall where you learned that

4 there was an emphasis on surgery in his flexible

5 internship?
6

A

Because he was assigned, if I believe,

7 to a Department of Surgery contract.

8
9

Q
A

Okay. So, I mean, it wasn't internal

10 medicine, so.

11

Q

And then again you -- the second

12 paragraph of your cover letter is kind of begging off
13 on the questions regarding 14

--

A

Pretty much.

15
16

Q

--

character?

I said it then and I say it today.

17
18 Center
19

Q

Okay.

Did you know Dr. Shaw at Medical

-A No.

20 21

Q
A

-No.

Hospital in Chillicothe?

22

Q

Do you recall having any follow-up

23 conversation with him?
24

A

No.

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 72 of 218

Page 72 1

Q

Did it cause you concern when you saw

2 that the request had wrong dates? A 4 5 6 7 No. Okay. It happens today. Okay.
As I said to you earlier, the

Because that's pretty common.

Q
A

Q
A

8 verification people don't always have their

9 information correct.
10 have wrong titles. 11 correct it.

They have wrong dates, they

And typically it's my job to

The only thing I can tell you, it's

12 consistently inconsistent. 13
Q

Okay. And that is true today. And the verification requesters

A 15

Q

16 typically get their information from where? 17 A I don't know.

I believe they get them I

18 from their applicants.

But, again, I don't know.

19 don't know if the applicant is having someone do it 20 for them.
21

There's too many folks that are

22 involved.

I can't answer that question.

But by the

23 time it gets to us who are doing the verifications,
24 many times it's incorrect, and it's our job to

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 73 of 218

Page 73
1 correct it.
2

Q

Let me go off track just for a second.

3 Is there any kind of professional association that
4 conducts, say, seminars, or occasions where you can
5 get together with these folks as a verifier, getting
6 together with folks who are asking for verifications

7 about how it's done and talks about the industry?

8 Has that --

If there is --

--

ever happened?

-- I'm not aware of it.
Okay. If there is, I'm not. Are you

--

are you a member of any

15 professional associations that revolve around 16 residency programs?
17

Not revolve around, but

--

A

Are involved with it? Yes.

18
19

Q
A

I can't say I'm a member.

I attend

20 what's called the ACGME, Accreditation Council for 21 Graduate Medical. 22 been to They have yearly workshops.
11 in a row.

I've

-- I went to

I haven't been in

23 the last couple of years.
24 that I'm involved with.

That's about the only one

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 74 of 218

1

Q

Ever attend a workshop where this kind

2 of -- where the verification process was discussed?
3

A

Actually, no.

But I'm interested in it

4 personally.
5

Q
A

Sure. I did my research paper for my master's

6

7 program on reference checks and the problems there
8 that lies.

So, yes, I'm kind of interested in this It kind of intrigues

9 from a professional standpoint. 10 me.

11
12 that.

Q

So tell me a little bit more about

That was for your master's program -A Correct.

13
14
15 16 19

Q
A

--

in --

Here at the University of Cincinnati in

-Q
A

17
18

In labor relations?
Yes. Labor Relations. That was my

19 research project.

20

Q

I imagine there's a more formal title
Is there a -- is this a

21 to that master's paper?
22 thesis that you did?

23

A

Yes.

I think Reference Checks, comma,

24 Pitfall.

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 75 of 218

Page 75 1

Q

Okay.

And was that broader than the

2 medical industry, or was that

---

That was broader

--

based on --

-- than the medical industry.
Okay. (Whereupon, Defendants' Exhibit Number
5 was marked for identification.)

Q

Handing you what I've marked as Take a minute to review that

1

10 Deposition Exhibit 5.

11 document, tell me whether you can identify it for me.
12
13

A

I can identify it. What is it? It looks like it's another verification

Q
A

14

15 or request for Dr. Patrick from

-- it looks like here

16 in Cincinnati, Academy Services, Med Chek.
17

Q

Med Chek.

Okay.

And, again, you

18 apparently successfully obtained a secretary to do
19 this for you.

Who's JMT? Jackie Tribble was an administrative

20

A

I

21 assistant for me.

Jackie Tribble? Tribble, T-R-I-B-B

-- I think it's L-E.

Is she still employed at Jewish

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 76 of 218

Page 76
1 Hospital?

2

Yes, sir, she is. Who does this now at Jewish Hospital? I do not know. Do you know who succeeded you when you

3
4

5
6 left? 7

A young lady by the name of Mary Kirk,

8 but she has since left.
9

Q

Mary Kirk? Mary Kirk, K-I-R-K. And she left And there's another

11 employment about two weeks ago.

12 person, her name is Theresa Schindler. 13 that's her name.
14

I believe

Q
A

Okay. And, again, I don't know if they're I don't

15

16 doing these, or if it's done differently. 17 know.

18

Q

Okay.

Generally I pulled the request

19 with the response if I had it, so I may not have had
20 it in the file.

21

A

That's what's concerning me, there's

22 more to this than I see.
23

Q
A

Yes.

Okay.

And why do you say that?

24

Because I wouldn't just write that

Case 1105-cv-02791-LW
I
I

Document I 21

Filed 0210712008

Page 77 of 21 8

m#@ T:?:
< 2 . . .

..

-

!

.-.

'

>.

H
<.'<
-1-

I I

!

' * a t ' s
Do yog

cwrrift,

I

know ThaTe:sg m-&$b?

Mo, sir,, I donrt

.
I I

What is Med 'Chek?

That's my understanding.

Again, 1

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 78 of 218

Page 78
1 contact with them over the years in this capacity?
2

A

As far as I've done verifications on

3 their behalf, correct.

Q

Any other contact with Med Chek No.

--

-- for any reason?
No. Just requests. Do you know anybody at Med Chek? No.
10

(Whereupon, Defendants1 Exhibit Numbers
6 and 7 were marked for identification.)

11 12

Q

I'm going to hand you two letters that

13 I've marked as Deposition Exhibits 6 and 7, ask you

14 whether you can identify -15
16 17

MR. JEFFREY BLANKENSHIP: These I
believe

--

oh, okay.

Same person.

Q

Again, to -- well, let me ask you

18 whether you can identify these two exhibits, Mr. 19 Bowen.
20

A

Well, again, obviously I wrote them,

2 1 but that's all I can tell you.

22

Q

Okay.

The second one is a little

23 harder to see, but they appear to have been sent on

24 February 7 and February 8 --

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 79 of 218

Page 79 Yeah.

--

1996?

Yeah. To the same person
Urn-hmm

--

.

-- Leigh Farrington at Team Health?
Urn-hmm .

1

Q

Do you have any recollection of this

I

9 circumstance that caused you to write her twice --

No.

-- in a row like this?
I wouldn't know why I would even have
done it. Okay. There would be no -- yeah. 16 have been all I would have needed to do. 17 same thing.
I don't understand.

Once would It says the

I I
I

l8

Q

Right.

So no recollection as to why

19 there's two letters in the file? The only

-- the only thing I could

21 surmise from it is sometimes people want the 22 verifications quickly, and they will send you

1 23 repeated requests literally one day after another.
24 And that would be my only reason to do

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 80 of 218

Page 80 1 it, but -- and I don't know why I would have done
2 it.

I would have done one and sent the request.
Don't know. Okay. And it appears that the

I

3 can't answer.

1

5 difference between the two is that the second letter 6 has your

-- the paragraph that indicates -A Right.

7
8

Q

-- that addresses the emergency

9 residency program?

10
11 probably

And that's why I believe that I

-- I did them separate because, again, it

12 looks like I was addressing two different questions

13 here.

So they were probably separate, but asking two So that's why you have two here.

14 different things.

15 One would have not sufficed that.
16

Q

And, again, you would expect there to

17 be more in the file, including the physician release?
18

A

Yes, sir. Are you familiar with Team Health in

Q

20 Knoxville, Tennessee?

21

A

NO, sir, I'm not. Now, if you look, I believe the date on

22

Q

23 the Med Chek verification was February 7 also of
24 1996?

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 81 of 218

Page 81 1 2
A

Urn- hmm

.

Q

Is it unusual for you to be sending out

3 two verifications on the same physician on the same
4 day to different institutions?

5

Not necessarily.

Again, it can go

--

6 it can be very cyclical.

If somebody is changing

7 positions or getting a new job, you may be getting
8 requests from insurance companies, you may get a

9 request

--

I may get one request for the same

10 physician, or I may get four different -- different

11 places.
12 And there's -- there's no

--

there's no

13 rhyme or reason for it.

Again, if their -- for Again, if It's not

14 insurance purposes, moving practices.

--

15 emergency medicine people jump around.

16 unusual.
17

Q

Tell me a little bit more about that.

18 You mentioned insurance companies may send you a

19 verification request.

20

A

I think I've seen

-- not on Dr.

21 Patrick, but I think in the past I've seen stuff.

22 They may say, you know, when they were a resident did
23 they have medical ma1 -- what kind of medical

24 malpractice does the hospital cover, things like

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 82 of 218

1 that, then I would have to send that off. 2
3 file?

Q

That wouldn't be in the resident's

4

A

No.

There would be no need for that. If

5 We would make a copy.

-- again, anything that
But that's a

6 theylre requesting would go in there.
7 rare. . .

8

Okay. (Whereupon, Defendants1 Exhibit Number

10 11

8 was marked for identification.)

Q

Handing you what I've marked as Could you identify

12 Defendants1 Deposition Exhibit 8.
13 this document for me? 14

A

Yeah.

Something I wrote back in 1996.

15
16 17

Dated July 9, 1996?

A

Urn-hmm

.

Q

To a licensure coordinator at HKA Locum

18 Tenens, Inc.? 19

A

Urn- hmm

.
--

Are you familiar with HKA 21
22

A

Urn-hmrn .

Q
A

-- Locum Tenens?
No, sir. And this one looks like somebody else
-

23 24
P

i

Q

--

--

,

_

_ *

-----

I

-.

....

. = .

4-

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 83 of 218

Page 83
1 typed this for you?

2

A

Yeah.

This was Mary K. Reiner.

She

3 became our administrative assistant to myself and Dr. 4 Wright.

5

Q

And, again, youtre confirming flexible

6 intern with emphasis on surgery care? 7

A

Urn-hmm . (Whereupon, Defendants' Exhibit Number

8

9
10

9 was marked for identification.)

Q

I'm handing you what I've marked as It's a two-page document.

11 Deposition Exhibit 9.

12 Take a minute to review this and identify it for me 13 if you can. 14

A

Again, it's a document that I saw in

16

Q

It appears that the first page is a

1 7 verification request? 18

A

Um-hmm . To Jewish Hospital from Columbia

19

Q

2 0 Northridge Medical Center in Prattville, Alabama?

21 22

A
Q

Um-hmm . And then the second page appears to be

23 at least part of a form that you may have filled out 24 and sent back?

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 84 of 218

Page 84
Urn-

hmm .

Is this your handwriting? That looks like it. Okay. So at least on this page you're

5 verifying that Jewish Hospital of Cincinnati and the
6 dates

-A Correct. And I noticed up here the

7

8 dates were incorrect.

9

Q
A

On the letter? Correct. Okay. So you've corrected those dates?

11 12
13

Q
A

Correct. And it

Q

--

also the letter says he

14 states in his application that he completed an
15 internship and residency -16 17 18 19
A
Urn- hmm

.
.

Q

-- from 1975 through 1978?
Urn- hmrn

A

Q

So essentially your procedure when you

20 got this was merely to put the correct dates down?

21
22
23

Urn-hmm .

Q
A

Not necessarily to add information? Well, it kind of concerns me, because

24 there's probably more to this file

--

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 85 of 218

Page 85 Okay.

-- than you have.
Okay.
4
5
6 you --

You would have

--

And that's their

--

Because you would sign it, wouldn't

7
8

Yeah.

--

someplace? There's got to be another page

9
10 to this. 11 12 13 to this.

Yeah.

Q
A

Okay. I'm afraid we're missing some documents

14
15

Q
A

Okay. Yeah. Absolutely. And then if the

16 case would have been -- if this would have been, 17 let's just say this is all we would have had, I would 18 have signed my name at the bottom --

19

Q
A

Right.

20

-- with my title, my date
Right.

--

--

so forth.

Okay. So this looks incomplete to me.

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 86 of 218

Page 86 1

Q

Okay.

And based on our earlier

2 discussion, though, what Columbia Northridge Medical 3 Center is stating in the first paragraph of its 4 letter is incorrect, based on what you found in Dr. 5 Patrick's file, correct?
6

A

I just disregard what they ask.

7 Because, as I've said before, typically it's not
8 correct, dates arenlt correct, and they're not asking

9 for the appropriate information.

10
1 1

Q

Okay. So I look at that and then I go back

A

12 and write exactly what we have in the file. 13

Q

So in this case this is one of those

14 situations where the description and the dates are
15 incorrect? 16 17 A According to this they are. And according to what you signed in

Q

18 response?

19 20

A
Q

Yes. And that was based on what you found in

21 the file? 22 23 24 Correct. (Whereupon, Defendants1 Exhibit Number 10 was marked for identification.)

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 87 of 218

Page 87 1 Q Handing you what I've marked as Could you identify this

2 Defendants' Exhibit 10.

3 document for the record?

Again, it looks like Kentucky Board of 5 Medical Licensure. And this one asks that -- I can

6 sign it as the administrator or the program director.
7
8

Q
A
Q

So that's why -That's why --

9

-- you felt comfortable?
Right. Correct. Because it gives me

10

A

11 that option.
12 at the time.

And then it was notarized by our notary

13

Q

Okay.

Was she kind of the notary for

14 the hospital, or within --

A

There were several, and she was one

16 that worked in my area that I could get and it was 17 very easy. 18

Q

Okay.

Did the state medical boards

19 generally require notarization? 20 21
22
A

A

Not necessarily. Okay.

Some do, some don't.

Again, the documents -- the

23 verification process is kind of all over the place, 24 and different people require different things.

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 88 of 218

Page 88 1
2

Q
A

Okay. As I said earlier, you know, program

3 directors can sign, director of medical education,

4 administrators.

5
6
7

Q
A

Okay. Some do, some don't. Is this all your handwriting in the

Q

8 bottom half of the page? 9

A

No.

The only thing that's not mine is

10 where this -- Edward A. Patrick is not mine. 11 12

Q A

Okay. And resident one is not mine. Jewish

13 Hospital is not mine. 14

Q
A

Okay. And that's not mine, but this part

16 right here is. 17
Q

Okay.

So the -- from resident one

18 Jewish Hospital below -- everything -19
20

A

Right.

Q

-- below that in handwriting is your

21 handwriting?

22

A

Yeah.

And basically because this was

23 done by a notary, she would have filled in that 24 part. I filled in my part. That's how that -- she

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 89 of 218

Page 89
1 worked this.
2

Q

Okay.

Well, who filled in resident

3 one, Jewish Hospital Cinti?

It looks like she would have done that.
5

Q

Okay.

And she would have also filled to 8 --

6 in the dates 9-1-75
7
A

That's not my --

8 9

Q
A

--

31

--

Correct. Okay. Given what I had told them. Okay. This is the first time I've seen

10
11

Q
A

12

Q

13 the resident one designation. 14

A

Urn- hmm

.

Why did you use that designation at
16 this time?

17

A

He was a first-year resident. As I

18 said before, you will see

--

in documentation you

19 will see internship, you will see down the road

20 what's qualified PGY-1.

Again, all these terms are

21 interchangeable with the same -- meaning the same

22 thing.
23

That's why it can be somewhat confusing.

Q

So you're saying that resident one is

24 interchangeable with flexible rotating internship?

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 90 of 218

Page 90
1

A

Again, internship, first-year residency

2 are interchangeable. 3

Q

And I'm just wondering what made you

4 change to use resident one here instead of the
5 flexible intern -6

A

Oh, I can't --

7 8 9

Q
A

-- that you had been using?
I can't answer that.

I don't know.

Q

Do you recall learning any new

10 information at this time? 11 A

No.

This

--

again, as I said, many

12 times this wouldn't have -- this doesn't really -- it 13 says what it really was. 14 He was there for one year.

Q

And then you've checked a specialized

15 residency program in general surgery? 16 A Urn-hmm. Because it really wasn't a

17 transitional internship, to my knowledge. 18

Q

Okay.

So here you're checking that it

19 was a specialized residency program in general

20 surgery? 21 22 A U r n -hmm. Although prior to this you had labeled

Q

23 it as an internship, but you see no distinction? 24
. - 2 + L

A

I don't see any distinction.
-

No.

--

-*. ..-*

,

-

-->-->-.

-- ---

A

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 91 of 218

Page 9 1
1

Q

Doesn't a first-year resident within

2 the business imply that it's a multiyear residency?

3

A

Not necessarily.

Residents can spend

4 anywhere from one to 12 years in residency. And you would label -- typically label
6 a one-year residency that was completed, if that's

7 all it was, as resident one?
8

A

I would say R-1, PGY-1.

Back then the

9 word "internship" -- an internship done for a year. 10 Again, there were a lot of terms used for the same 11 thing. 12

Q

Okay.

And I guess, as you said, as you

13 sit here today you can't recall why you used that
I

14 term -15

No.

I

16
17

-- in this particular occasion?
No, sir.

I don't know.

18

Q

And before you had indicated in

19 previous verifications that it was a flexible

1
I

20 internship with an emphasis on surgery? 21
22

Surgery.

Um-hrnrn.

Q

Do you see that as the same as a

23 specialized residency program in general surgery?
24

A

I feel this is all the same.

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 92 of 218

Page 92
1

Q

And then you filled in the 12 for 12

2 months of clinical experience? 3
4

A

Yes. Do you see that?
Urn- hmm

Q
A

5 6
7

.
It

Q
A

And how did you know that? Because I went back to the file.

8 clearly states the dates that he was there. 9 had 12 months of credit.

So he

Q
11 the 12

And would that have been required for

--

for a certificate of completion, 12 months?
A

Most often residents at least get their I mean, that would give you And that's what

13 12 months of training.

14 basically a year of education.
15 they're based on, years.
16

And, as I said, some people start So you would like to see that they got 12 And, again, it could be

17 mid-cycle.

18 months of experience.

19 August, you know, through the following July, but as 20 long as it's 12 months. And a lot of times the

21 documents will ask for total months of completion.

22

Q

Isn't that a

--

kind of an

23 accreditation requirement?

The hospital

--

24

A

Well --

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 93 of 218

Page 93
1

Q

-- doesn't have the option to set the

2 length of the
3

-No.

A

Q
5 A

-- residency, does it?
The hospital does not. It's really for When you

6 accreditation purposes, or for your boards.

7 take your boards, when you sign off, it says I've
8 done X amount of years.

You know, you have to sign

9 that away.
10

And then the board will say, okay,

11 you've had X amount of years of

-- months of

12 experience, now you're qualified to sit for your

13 specialty boards.

So it's more of a board

14 requirement.

How about within Jewish; if, say, the
16 records show -- or if, in fact, a physician only
17 completed 11 months of a one-year flexible 18 internship, would Jewish issue him a certificate of

19 completion?
20
21

A

Back then, I can't answer. How about today? Probably not. You would

Don't know.

Q
A

22

--

or you

23 would get a letter stating that you've only completed

24 11 months.

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 94 of 218

Page 94
1

Q
A

Okay. I mean, you -- you wouldn't give them a

2

3 certificate, because really it's a 12-month program.
4 Now, some residents will do -- you know, do 11 months

5 and a month of a research, but then that would be
6 indicated in the full residency program, a 12 months.
7

Q

Okay.

And typically a resident gets a

8 couple weeks vacation in a year, right?

Correct. 10

Q

And I guess to be more precise, by a

11 couple I mean two generally.
12

A

Some programs nowadays are getting

13 four.

I don't know what they got back then. I don't know.

14 Anywhere from two to four weeks.

15

Q

Okay.

And that would be generally

16 written out in the contract? 17

A

It's usually stated out in the Um-hmm. (Whereupon, Defendants' Exhibit Number

18 contract.

19

11 was marked for identification.) 21

Q

Handing you, Mr. Bowen, what I've Take a moment

22 marked as Defendants' Exhibit 11.

23 to

--

this is a letter that you may or may not It's apparently a

24 recognize or be familiar with.

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 95 of 218

Page 95
1 residency request.

It's referring back to the

2 Kentucky verification

--

3

A

Um-hmrn .

-- which apparently was HKA Locum
5 Tenens involved with?

6
7

A

Um-hmrn . Do you recall anything about this

Q

8 letter?
9

No, I can't.

Because I don't --

10 there's something else that goes with it that I -11 12 13 on. 14

Q
A

Okay.

No.

This doesn't give me a lot to go

Q

Right.

This letter and some of the

15 others that we'll look at, when they're requesting a 16 verification, will give Dr. Patrick's Social Security

17 number and date of birth? 18
19
20

A

Um-hmrn . Was that significant to you at all? I always like to cross-reference it. Okay. Yeah. Absolutely. If I see that, then

Q
A

21
22

Q
A

23 I go to the file, look to make sure that we're still

24 talking about the same person.

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 96 of 218

1

Q

Did you ever cross-reference

-- do you

2 have any recollection of cross-referencing Dr.

3 Patrick's birth date and finding an erroneous birth
4 date had been given?

5 6
7

A

Not to my knowledge. Would that have caused you any concern?
If there's something that is

Q
A

8 questionable in a file, yeah, 1'11 be concerned.
9

Q

Okay. Sure. But to your memory

--

Not to my knowledge.

-No.

you don't recall --

-16
17

a discrepancy?

I don't remember, but I don't think so.
(Whereupon, Defendantst Exhibit Number

18
19

12 was marked for identification).

Q

Handing you what's been marked as This is a fax again from HKA

20 Defendantsg Exhibit 12.

21 Locum Tenens, dated February 11, 1997 that was
22 produced to us by Jewish Hospital, and it was to Pam

23 King?
24

Correct.

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 97 of 218

Page 97
1

Q

And the letter again is referring to

2 Dr. Patrick and to request for verification in

3 addition to the state of Kentucky that apparently

4 recently had done that we've just looked at?
5 6

A

Um-hmm . Do you have any recollection of

Q

7 receiving this request, or why Pam King might have

8 received this request?

Well, as I said to you earlier, a lot
1 0 of times things will get sent to the hospital, not
1 1 necessarily

to the right person, and they'll get to

1 2 the person.

I still believe on this document there's

13 things that are missing from it.
14
15

Q

Okay.

Sure.

But because Pam received it, no.

1 6 Again, as we've said, things will come to their 1 7 office wrongly to internal medicine department, and 1 8 conversely to me in surgery we would get verification 1 9 for somebody who actually had done an internal 2 0 medicine residency.
21

Q
A

Sure. So my name would appear, but I would

22

23 give it to Pam and say, Pam, this is yours.

24

Q

And you would expect her to do the

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 98 of 218

Page 98 1 same?
2

A

And she would take

--

yeah.

3 Absolutely.

Do you know Tracy Post? No. And the last page is

--

is this a

typical waiver that we've discussed that the physician -Yes.

-- provides?
And it has Dr. Patrick's signature. Okay. MR. JEFFREY BLANKENSHIP: Ken, are you

at a spot where we can take a -MR. ZIRM: Sure.

MR. JEFFREY BLANKENSHIP: minutes break? MR. ZIRM: Sure.

-- few

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: record.

We are off the

The time is 10:50. Okay.

MR. JEFFREY BLANKENSHIP:

(A brief recess was taken.) THE VIDEOGRAPHER: record. We are back on the

The time is 11:03.

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 99 of 218

Page 99
1

(Whereupon, Defendants' Exhibit Number
13 was marked for identification.)

2
3

Q

Mr. Bowen, I'm handing you what I've Is that your

4 marked as Defendants' Exhibit 13.

5 handwriting on the bottom of this form?
6
7

A

Yes. It appears to be another verification

Q

8 dated March -- well, your signature is dated April 8,
9 1 9 9 7 to ECC, Emergency Coverage Corporation. 1 0 familiar with that? 1 1 12

Are you

A

No. That request has a date of birth of Dr.

Q

13 Patrick up top, if you see, of 1 0 - 7 - 4 7 ?
14

A

Correct. If it turned out that was not the

16 correct birth date or year, again, do you believe you
1 7 would have noticed that in your verification process?

18
19

A

I would have.

Q

Okay.

It says the above-referenced

2 0 physician has made application to work with our group 2 1 in the capacity of emergency physician, and states he 2 2 completed his medical residency at your institution 2 3 in June of 1 9 7 6 .

24

Again, I know you don't put stock in

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
-

Document 121
-

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 100 of 218

Page 100 1 what they say, but that's not correct, is that?
2

A
Q

That's correct. A medical residency would be --

3

4 wouldn't that imply an internal medicine residency to 5 you? 6 7 A
Q

Yes. Okay. And then you down below

8 indicated that he completed one year as, quote,

9 flexible surgical internship, correct?
10

A

Correct. And you see that essentially as

11

Q

12 consistent with how you've been answering these up to 13 now? Correct. 15

Q

And then you have the years, although This form

16 technically I guess it's not a graduation. 17 asks for date of graduation. 18 A

It does ask for that, but I always just

19 put these are the dates.
20

Okay.
A

21
22

And let them take it from there. But internally you wouldn't refer

Q

23 to that as
24

--

that 8-31-76 date as a graduation

date --

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 101 of 218

Page 101 1 2 3 4
5

No.

-- would you?
No. (Whereupon, Defendantso Exhibit Number 14 was marked for identification.)

6

Q

Handing you a multipage document that I Just take a

7 have labeled Defendants1 Exhibit 14.

8 couple minutes to page through this. 9

A

(Peruses document.) Have you had a chance to page through

10

11 this, Mr. Bowen?

12 13

A

Yes. I'd like to first turn your attention

Q

14 to -- well, I guess the first question is on the 15 first two pages, is that your signature at the 16 bottom? 17
18
A

Yes. And then the third page is apparently a

Q

19 fax cover sheet to you from Linda Seals, Medical
20 Staff Services Memorial Hospital in Seymour,
21 Indiana.

Do you know Ms. Seals?
A

22
23

No. Do you recall having a telephone

Q

24 conversation with her before or after receiving this
~

-

-.

.,.

-

- < -

-

,

-

---

.----

- -

=

.

.

.

A

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 102 of 218

Page 102 1 fax? A
Q

I do not recall. She says: Mike, I am hoping that you

4 will be able to help me out with Dr. Patrick. 5 sent two separate letters for verification. 6

I have

And then you see following that is

7 letter number one dated January 15, 1998?

8

A
Q

Correct. And this letter seems to be asking

9

10 regarding

--

or says that this physician stated he

11 received a rotating internship from your institution 12 which began 1975 through 1976. 13 14 Do you see that?

A
Q

I do. And then if you go a couple pages And do you

15 beyond that do you see the second letter?

16 see in the first paragraph, second sentence, Ms. 17 Thomas is saying this physician stated he received a 18 special residency in emergency medicine from your 19 institution which began 1976 through 1978? 20 21 A I see that. Okay . So there's kind of two separate

22 -- she's asking you to verify the rotating internship 23 as well as a special emergency medicine residency, 24 correct?

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 103 of 218

Page 103 Correct.

I
1

Q

So in response -- I'm just trying to

3 put this kind of in logical order -- are the first
4 two sheets, correct?

Correct. And in the first one in your
7 handwriting at the bottom it says:

Dr. Patrick

8 served as a flexible surgical PGY-1 resident here at
9 Jewish Hospital?

10 11

A

Correct. That's the first I think we've seen

Q

12 this PGY-1 designation? 13 A Correct. What does that mean? We discussed that earlier, postgraduate

Can you recall why you decided to use
18 that designation in this verification?
19

A
Q

I cannot tell you why. And, again, you're -- you believe this

20

21 is consist -- entirely consistent with what you've 22 been saying in your past verifications? 23
24
A

Yes, sir. So a PGY-1 resident is similar to a --

Q

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 104 of 218

Page 104
1 2

A

First year.

Q

-- flexible rotating intern? You

3 better repeat that.

4
5

A
Q

Yes, sir. The first year

-- you had talked when I

6 was talking, so I was asking you to repeat that. 7

A
Q

My apologies.
That's all right. So let's just get it

8

9 straight on the record.

The PGY-1 resident is the

10 same as a flexible intern, in your view?

11
12

A

Yes. Then on the second page, again, in your We have no records on file

Q

13 handwriting, you state:

14 to indicate that Dr. Edward Patrick has received 15 special residency training here in emergency 16 medicine? 17

A

That's correct. And we'll see that you do this on a

18

Q

19 number of occasions with regard to the emergency 20 residency. 21

A

Correct. And my question is, do you recall ever

22

Q

23 getting a follow-up call from any of these requesters 24 asking you more information about that?

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 105 of 218

Page 105
1 2 A

Not to my knowledge. Did it concern you that apparently the
L
1

Q

3 applicant was indicating to the institution that he

4 had served a special emergency medicine residency at
5 Jewish Hospital?

MR. JEFFREY BLANKENSHIP:
assumes facts not in evidence.
8 9

Objection;

You may answer.

A

It did not concern me, in the fact that

10 as I've indicated prior this morning that many times 11 the verifications weren't always what they appeared 12 to be coming from the verifier 13 sending it to us.

--

or the people

So, no, we just

--

I just facts --

14 I just stated the facts.

Okay.

Would there come a time that if

16 you saw a number of requests asking you to verify an 17 emergency medicine residency that did not occur where 18 that would concern you? 19

A

It would not concern me.

Again, I

2 0 would put what I pretty much have done on the

21 documents, our records don't indicate that he had
2 2 that here.

23

Q

Okay.

And you essentially felt you or

24 the hospital had no other obligation other than to

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 106 of 218

Page 106 .
1 correct 2

-A

give out the correct information? Correct.
I

3
4

(Whereupon, Defendants' Exhibit Number
15 was marked for identification.)

5

Q

Handing you what I've marked as Will you take a moment and

6 Deposition Exhibit 15.

7 identify that document if you can. 8

A

It appears that it is another

9 verification. 10

Does that appear to be your signature

11 at the bottom? 12 13

A

It is.
Okay. And this one is -- your
1
1

Q

14 signature and the letter are both dated March 27, 15 1998 from and to Alliance Community Hospital? 16 17

I

That's correct.

Q

And on this one you just wrote -- is

I

18 this your handwriting at the bottom? 19 20

A

That is. So you wrote: Dr. Edward A. Patrick

Q

21 served a flexible surgical resident here 22 sorry

--

I'm
I
1

--

served as a flexible surgical resident here

23 at Jewish Hospital from September 1, 1975 through 24 August 31, 1976, correct?
.

.

. .-

..

. ..

'arirra -2.

-

n*

r

1

- -r

- .

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 107 of 218

Page 107 1

A

Correct. Okay. And in the body of the letter it

2

Q

3 indicates again that they had had incorrect

4 information?

5
6

A

That's correct. Okay. Do you recall any further

Q

7 conversation other than this letter with anyone at 8 Alliance Community Hospital about Dr. Patrick? 9

A

Not to my knowledge. (Whereupon, Defendants' Exhibit Number

11
12

16 was marked for identification.)

Q

Handing you what I've marked as

13 Deposition Exhibit 16. Much of this is illegible,
14 and I apologize.

It's the best copy we got.

1'11

15 just ask you about your handwriting, which is 16 legible.
17
18

A

Okay. Have you had a chance to review this

Q

19 three-page document --

20

A

I have.

-- I'm sorry, four-page document?
22 appears to be a fax transmission from an entity
23 called EmCare in Laurel, Maryland.

It

Are you familiar

24 with EmCare?

Case 1 :05-cv-02791 -LW Document 121

F i l e d 02/07/2008 Page 108 of 218 Page 108

1
2

A

No. Do you recall having ever -- any other

Q

3 contact with EmCare? 4
5

A

No. I'm going to just ask to see whether

Q

6 it's possible -- see at the bottom of page two
7 there's some handwriting that's cut off.

Do you know

8 if that's your handwriting? A 10 It appears, but I can't read it. Okay. I was going to ask if you would

Q

11 be able to read it. 12 On the third page of the document, is

13 that your handwriting?
14

A

Correct. And your signature dated May 29, 1998?

15
16

A

Yes. Is that May? Yes. Is that May? You indicate that Dr. Is that your handwriting?

17
18

Q

A

19

Q

20 Patrick served as a flexible resident one from
21 September 1, 1975 through August 31, 1976?

22 23

A

Correct. I'm just curious. You seem to be very

Q

24 precise about how you went about doing this, and so

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 109 of 218

Page 109 1 I'm curious as to why you didn't use the exact same 2 term every time you described this flexible 3 internship.

A

Well, as I said to you before, in my

5 nomenclature there can be some differences, PGY-1,

6 resident one, and my understanding of the business 7 it's all the same thing.

I'm not -- we're -- was he

8 a flexible resident, was he a PGY-1, was he an R-1,

9 it's all the same to me, 10

Q

Okay.

Were you at all concerned about

11 how it would be received, though, by using different 12 terminology? 13 14

A

No. (Whereupon, Defendantst Exhibit Number

17 was marked for identification.) 16 You might want to keep Exhibit 16 out This appears to be a

17 as I give you Exhibit 17.

18 letter from you to Ms. Bethann Shares at EmCare dated 19 June 1, 1998. Do you recall whether this accompanied

20 your response that we looked at in Exhibit 16 to 21 EmCare? 22 23

A

I can't say that it did or it did not.
You indicate that he served as a

Q

24 flexible intern, correct?

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 110 of 218

Page 110 1
2

A

Correct. And then the first time I see you in According to our records, Dr.

Q

3 a verification say:

4 Patrick was felt to have excellent professional 5 ability, moral and ethical standards, character,

6 integrity and personality.
7
8

A

Correct. You talked before how generally you

Q

9 declined to offer these -- this observation and
1 0 opinion.

Why did you do it here? A

11

I believe there's more to this

12 document, and it would help me to look at that, why I
13 did that.
14

Q

Okay.

And just so you know, I'm not

15 withholding additional documentation, but based on
16 what Jewish Hospital turned over, this is all I could

17 find regarding EmCare. 18

A
(r

Correct. So you don't recall as you sit here

19

20 today why you would have offered this opinion on his

21 ethical standards and character when you generally 22 did not do that? 23 24 A
I can't answer that today.

Q

Okay.

Do you recall what record you

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 111 of 218

Page 111
1 referred to?

You say according to our records. That would be the resident file that we

2
3 have

A

-- that I used for all his verifications.
Do you recall any specific documents

5 within that resident file that you referred to to be
6 able to give this opinion?
7

A

There would have been something in

8 writing where this would have come from perhaps -9 and, again, I don't know where this came from in that
1 0 file, was it from Dr. Heimlich or one of his --

11 someone else who had done evaluations.
12

Q

So you believe it would have come from

13 a written evaluation of some sort?
14

A

That's correct.

Because I wrote here

1 5 according to our records.

And it did come out of his

16 file. 17

Q

Okay.

And I see you put in quotes

18 excellent.
19
20

A

(Nods head. ) Would you believe that to mean that you

Q

21 were actually quoting from an evaluation that you

22 saw?
23

That's correct. (Whereupon, Defendants1 Exhibit Number

24

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 112 of 218

Page 112
1

18 was marked for identification.)

2

Q

Handing you what I've marked as The first page appears to be

3 Deposition Exhibit 18.

1

4 a letter from you to Gracie Jones at Betsy Johnson

5 Regional Hospital regarding Dr. Patrick; is that
6 correct?

7
8

A

Correct. Just curious, because most of the

Q

9 letters I've seen from you have your signature copied

10 in the file.

This one doesn't.

Any explanation?

It concerns me, too. Okay. That would not be your normal

Correct. Okay. Would it -- would anyone ever

16 have permission to send out a letter over your name

17 without you signing it?
18

A

No.

Also, with the error

--

I noticed

I

19 that they crossed through a typographical error.
20 And, again, that would not -- this would be atypical.
21

Q

Okay.

You generally would proof it,

22 make sure it's correct, not do something as

-- I'll

23 use the word "sloppy," but you would want it to not

24 container errors like that and corrections like that?

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 113 of 218

Page 113
1

A

That's correct.

Plus, it would also

2 include my signature, which this one doesn't, so I am 3 -- it would concern me.
4

Q

Okay.

And, again, MKR typed this up.

5 Have you given us her name before?

6
7 appears.

A

Mary K. Reinhart.

That's what it

8

Q
A

And is she still at Jewish? No. Do you know where she works presently? She works in the public relations

10

Q
A

11

12 department for The Health Alliance.
13

Q

And as we've seen before, you're

14 confirming the flexible intern in those years and

15 then indicating that there is no record of an
16 emergency medicine residency for Dr. Patrick at 17 Jewish, correct?

18

A

Correct. And if you look at the next page -The letter

19

Q

20 well, we'll see why you're saying that.

21 from Betsy Johnson Hospital to the director of 22 internship residency program. Do you see that letter

23 where they have the -- it's the second page of the
24 exhibit.

Yes.

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 114 of 218

Page 114 1
A

I see it.
Where they say rotating 1975 to 1976, So that is why

2

Q

3 emergency medicine 1976 to 1978.

4 you're responding the way you're responding,
5 correct?

They've asked you about the -- or they've

6 noted an emergency medicine residency, correct?

7
8

A

Correct. And then the third page is a release

Q

9 from Dr. Patrick, correct?
10

A

Correct. And then the next couple pages appear

11

12 to be forms that were filled out by Dr. Patrick. 13 What is that indicating to you? 14 Was this something that you typically

15 get with verification requests, kind of a multipage 16 form of different procedures or privileges that are 17 being contemplated? 18 A Sometimes we will get them, sometimes It just varies. Did it have any meaning for you? No. Would you review it with care to see

19 we won't. 20 21
22

Q

A
Q

23 what was being contemplated?
24

A

No.

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 115 of 218

?age 115 1 Q Because, again, your job you felt was

2 just to confirm the attendance and the dates?

3
4 5
6

A

Yes. (Whereupon, Defendants' Exhibit Number

19 was marked for identification.)

Q

Do you recall ever having a

7 conversation with anybody at this Betsy Johnson

8 Regional Hospital about Dr. Patrick?
9

A

I don't recall.
Handing you what's been marked as This is a

10

Q

11 Defendants' Deposition Exhibit 19. 12 four-page exhibit.

The first page is a letter from

13 you to Sonia Lineoak at Columbia Northwest Medical

14 Center in Russellville, Alabama.
15 signature?

Is that your

16 17

A

Correct. Similar to the last exhibit, you're

Q

18 confirming the flexible intern with emphasis on

19 surgery and disclaiming the emergency medicine 20 residency, correct?
21

A

Correct. You see on the second page -- and,

22

Q

23 again, your practice was not to -- it appears that

24 you did not address the emergency medicine residency

.--

+ . d "

---~-&*-.>J~?L~...>-&

"-.--d".L-"-

T-.--.

& * + = L L > 2 > > . =

, , .

.

*

\

A * . ,

.

-

1

.

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 116 of 218

I
1 unless the requester was asking you about it,
2 correct?

Page 116

Correct. And in this case on page two it appears
5 that they are asking you about it, correct?

Correct. So by this time in 1998 on multiple

I

8 occasions you have sent verifications that disclaimed 9 emergency medicine residency for Dr. Patrick,
1 0 correct?
11

A

Correct. Did you ever mention that to Creighton

12

Q

13 Wright that you were getting requests to verify an 14 emergency medicine residency that did not occur?
15 16

A

Not to my knowledge. You never discussed it with anybody at

Q

17 Jewish Hospital?

A

I probably discussed it with Pam King

19 to ask her, you know, just say, hey, this is coming

20 up, is there anything to your knowledge that I'm not

21 aware of. Okay. But other than that, no. I think early on today you were -- you

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 117 of 218

Page 117
1 testified that you didn't get that -- strike that.
2

Rather than try to paraphrase you, let

3 me ask you if you could give me an estimate, say, in

4 the years 1995 to 2000 about how many verifications

5 you did on a monthly basis, average?
6
7

A

Ten. Okay. Let me ask you whether there is

Q

8 any other physician for whom you received more 9 verification requests than Dr. Patrick during those
1 0 years?

A

Don't know.

Don't know of any.

Q
A

Don't know of any? No. Okay. Do you recall receiving more

Q

15 than 20 verification requests for any physician other

16 than Dr. Patrick in all your years at Jewish?
17

A

Not that I recall. (Whereupon, Defendants' Exhibit Number

18 19 20

20 was marked for identification.)

Q

Handing you what I've marked as It's a two-page

2 1 Defendants' Deposition Exhibit 20.

22 exhibit which purports to have your signature on both

23 pages.

I just want to confirm that that is your

24 signature on both pages?

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 118 of 218

Page 118 Correct. Both signatures are dated July 27,

4
5

A

Correct. The first verification request is

Q

6 addressed to the program director rotating
7 internship, and on the first page you are confirming

8 the flexible resident one for Dr. Patrick, correct?

Correct.
10

Is that your handwriting on the second

11 page where it is stated that our records do not 12 indicate that Edward Patrick, M.D. served an 13 emergency medicine residency? 14
15

A

Correct. Is that your handwriting? Yes, it is. And, again, that's reflected on what

Q
A

16 17

Q

18 you found in his file?

19

A

Correct. A number of the verification

21 requests -- if you look at the second page of this 22 document, of Exhibit 20, at the top it has program
23 director emergency medicine, Jewish Hospital, and

24 then in parentheses under Dr. H. Heimlich.

Do you

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 119 of 218

Page 119
1 see that?

2
3

A

Yes, sir. Was that, the mention of Dr. Heimlich,

Q

4 significant to you in your role as verifying this

5 residency or not?
6

A

No.

The only thing was that Dr.

7 Heimlich was the program director prior to my
8 arriving and he was director of surgery, and then Dr.
9 Ronald Fegelman took over the position from him.

10

And obviously his name and the So

11 procedure, and it was done at Jewish Hospital.

12 other than that, no.
13

Q

Okay.

And you say that he

-- that Dr.

14 Heimlich was program director and director of
15 surgery? 16 17

Well, one in the same. Okay. That's what I was going to ask

18 about.
19

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: minutes.

You have five

20

MR. ZIRM:

Okay.

We're going to go off

the record so she can change the videotape. THE WITNESS: Sure. We are off the

THE VIDEOGRAPHER:

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 120 of 218

I
record. The time is 11:31.
(A brief recess was taken.)

Page 120

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are back on the record. The time is 11:38. This is tape

two of today's deposition. (Whereupon, Defendants1 Exhibit Number
7
21 was marked for identification.)

8

Q

Mr. Bowen, I'm handing you what I've This is a On the third page,

9 marked as Defendants1 Exhibit 21.

10 three-page

--

four-page exhibit.

11 is that your signature?

Correct. Is that your handwriting? Yes. And your signature was notarized by

Correct. 18
19 20

Who we've mentioned before? Correct. This is a response to a request --

21 verification request from HKA Locum Tenens apparently 22 assisting Dr. Patrick process his Georgia medical

I I

23 board application.

Is that unusual for you to get a
24

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 121 of 218

Page 121
1 request from a third party to submit information to a

2 state medical board?
3

A

No. So it didn't cause you any -- it didn't

5 raise any eyebrows when you received it? 6
7

A
Q

No.

On the third page with your handwriting

8 there was a

--

this is a form that they provided to

9 you, correct?
10

A

Yes. And you see that there's an option for

11

Q

12 you to check either resident or intern, correct? 13
14

A

Correct. And why did you check intern instead of

Q

15 resident?
16

A
Q

Because he had done an internship. Although we've seen that you have

17

18 previously used the term "resident," correct?
19

A

Correct.

This form

--

again, in some

2 0 eyes people would say it's a resident, it's an

21 intern.

I asked

-- they asked for an intern,

I was

22 able to give that to them.
23

Q
A

So based

--

24

It would not have been wrong to put R-1

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 122 of 218

Page 122
1 resident.

It's all the same. Okay. So given the choice based on

3 your knowledge of his file, if someone's asking you

4 to describe it as a residency or internship, you

5 would choose internship?
6

A

I would choose what's correct.

And in

7 this case they asked for internship, and I was okay 8 with that. Between internship and residency you 10 thought that was a better choice? 11 12
13 14

A

In this particular case, yes. (Whereupon, Defendants' Exhibit Number

22 was marked for identification.)

Q

Handing you, Mr. Bowen, what I've This

15 identified or marked as Defendants' Exhibit 22.
16 is a six-page exhibit.

17

The first page of which is a letter

18 unsigned from a Deborah Stevens, who is identified as
19 administrative assistant, internal medicine, to Lori

20 Burnside at Davis Memorial Hospital at Elkins, West
21 Virginia.
22

Have you ever seen this letter before? A
Q

No, sir, I have not. Did you -- you knew Deborah Stevens? She worked for -- as an administrative
I<.-->
L . ~

23

24
a

A
-

--

-=

.-

_---_AL

___-

Z

G

_ A I

-_--_- .-_

.

>.

7

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 123 of 218

Page 123
1 assistant in the Department of Internal Medicine with

2 Pam King.
3

Q

Do you know why she would be responding

4 to a verification request regarding Dr. Patrick?
5

A

I have no idea. If you were absent, let's say these

6

Q

7 came in on your vacation, what was the instructions

8 you left for verification requests regarding surgical 9 residents?
10

A

It would be waiting for me when I

11 returned. 12

Q

Did anyone have permission to do a

13 verification in your absence?

14

A

No.

And no one would want to.

And why is that?
16

A

Most people don't want to do It's paperwork. I did

17 verifications.

--

I did them

18 all for the Department of Surgery, and everybody knew 19 that I wanted to be the one who did them. 20

Q

Does it surprise you to see this

21 document?

22
23

A

Very much so. Do you ever recall having a

Q

24 conversation with Deborah Stevens about doing

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 124 of 218

Page 124 1 verifications for surgical residents? 2
3

A

No. It was just known that that's what the

Q

4 division was between internal medicine and surgery, 5 you did the surgical and somebody else did the
6 internal medicine?

7
8

A
Q

Yes. And who would Deborah Stevens have been

9 working under at this time in May of 2000?
10

A

Dr. Steven Goldberg, director of

11 internal medicine. 12

Q

And was Pam King employed in that

13 department at that time in May of 2000? 14 15
16

A

Yes. (Whereupon, Defendants1 Exhibit Number

23 was marked for identification.)

17

Q

Handing you what I've marked as The top page is a

18 Defendants' Exhibit Number 23.

19 letter from you to Patricia Swiz at Deaconess
20 Hospital in Evansville, Indiana, followed by two

21 other pages

-- one, a verification request from

22 Deaconess to Jewish Hospital, and the third, a 23 release form signed by Dr. Patrick. 24
,

Is that your signature on the front
.

-

,

-

.

.,

-

=:

+

.

.

.

L . " . .

I...

HI-^

-.-.

-2-

.. .-.-.

-

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 125 of 218

Page 125
1 page of this letter?

2
3

A
Q

Yes. So we can assume this is an accurate

4 copy of a letter you sent to her on that date?

Yes.

1
1

Q

And you're indicating in the letter

7 that Dr. Patrick -- you're using the term "PGY-1

8 flexible resident," as we've discussed before,

9 correct?

Correct. And then you're addressing the
12 emergency medicine internship and that he did not
1 3 serve that while at Jewish Hospital?

14

A

Correct. And you're doing that because on page

15

Q

16 two they -- well, I guess the question is why you're
17 addressing that in this letter.

A

On page two where it's talking about

19 program internship emergency medicine, I was stating
2 0 the facts.
21

Q

So you felt you should address that in

22 your response?
23

A

Absolutely. And also we see that on page two they

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 126 of 218

Page 1 2 6 1 have the year -- the date is incorrect as well.
2 you see that?

3
4

A

Correct. Do you recall any follow-up

Q

5 conversation by telephone with Ms. Swiz or anyone at
6 Deaconess Hospital in Evansville?

7

A

Not to my knowledge. Do you recall ever having a telephone

8 9 call

Q

-- receiving a telephone call from someone to
Dr. Patrick

1 0 whom you extended verification regarding

11 asking for additional verification about Dr. Patrick?

12 13

A

I don't recall any. Would it be your practice

Q

-- was it

1 4 your practice to put notes of any kind that you made

15 regarding a resident into a resident's file?
16

A

I don't recall doing any notes.

Pretty

17 much when I did the verifications, that was my -- I
18 would refer to those.

I don't remember putting any

19 other notes in the file.
20 21 22 23

Okay . (Whereupon, Defendants' Exhibit Number
24 was marked for identification.)

Q

Handing you what I've identified as Can you identify this

24 Defendants' Exhibit 2 4 .

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 127 of 218

Page 127 1 document, Mr. Bowen?

2

A

Again, it appears to be a document, a When

3 verification that I had done back -- let's see.

4 was that?

Back in 2001, it appears. And on the third page of the document,

That is. Is that your handwriting at the bottom? That it is. And in your handwriting it says: Our

12 flexible intern with an emphasis on surgery from

I

13 9-1-75 through 8-31-76, correct? Correct. Is there a reason you would sometimes 16 put flexible intern in quotes? No reason for it.

Q

You see at the top of the page : h e

19 typing under number one, apparently -- well, let me 20 ask you.

Is this the information they were sending
You see the years, and

1

21 to you about his internship?

22 then they call it rotating, dash, emergency medicine?

I

A That would be my understanding that's 23 24 what they're requiring.

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 128 of 218

Page 128
1

Q

Okay.

And if you look at the page

2 before that, this is their verification request to
3 you?

It is.
5

Q

Now, this one has attention Mike Bowen, Many of them just come to

6 Department of Surgery.

7 Jewish Hospital to a title, like a program director
8 or a residency director or something like that.
9 you know why they knew to send it to you?

Do

10 11

A

Don't know. Do you recall any prior conversation

Q

12 with anyone at Phoebe Putney Memorial Hospital? 13 14

A

No. Do you know George M. Chastain, M. D.? No. (Whereupon, Defendants' Exhibit Number

Q
A

16

17

25 was marked for identification.)

18

Q

Handing you what I've marked as It's a two-page document, and

19 Deposition Exhibit 25.

20 the second page appears to be Dr. Patrick's release.
21 Is that your signature on the first page?

22
23

A

Yes.

Q

Do you see at the top where the

24 information regarding Dr. Patrick is listed, and it

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW Document 121

F i l e d 02/07/2008 Page 129 of 218 Page 129

1 says University -- University of Cincinnati at Jewish
2 Hospital?

I see it.
4
Q

Was there any connection at that time

5 between the University of Cincinnati and Jewish
6 Hospital?

7

A

You want to rephrase that?

Was there a

8 connection between the University of Cincinnati and

9 Jewish Hospital during which time?

10

Q

Well, let's see.

It looks like you

11 signed this on

-During 2001?

12 13

A
Q

-- July 2, 2001.
No, there was not. Okay. Did that cause you concern when

A 15

Q

16 you saw that reference to University of Cincinnati at

17 Jewish Hospital? 18

A

No.

As I've said many times this

19 morning, that many times the things that were sent

20 like that are incorrect.
21

Q

So essentially on this one you checked

22 the box that he completed the internship, correct?
23

A

Correct. And you put the dates?

24

Q

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 130 of 218

Page 130 A Correct. Are you aware of any joint residency

Q

programs between University of Cincinnati and Jewish Hospital that occurred in the seventies, eighties, nineties?

A
wrong, late

Back during -- I may have my dates

--

I think it was the early eighties,

there had been some thought that the Department of Surgery at Jewish Hospital would be working a little bit more collegially with the Department of Surgery at the University of Cincinnati. We would be sending residents -- some of their residents would come over and work at the Jewish Hospital, some of our residents would go to the University and work. And, in fact, they did.

And they did that up until about 1998 until Dr. Ronald Fegelman died unexpectedly. After his death, Jewish Hospital chose to maintain their independent residency. the only thing I was aware of. And that's

Q

And so you're identifying that for

about an eight-year period during the nineties?

A

That's what I was aware of.

If it was

earlier, I was not aware of it.

Case 1105-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 0210712008

Page 131 of 218

Da yGu r ~ c a 1 3this document?

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 132 of 218

Page 132 Okay. Yes. And you're using the term "PGY-1 4 flexible resident," as we've discussed before in this
5 one, correct?

And this is your signature?

6 7

A
Q

Correct. And I'm looking to see why you're

8 addressing the emergency medicine internship
9 question.
10

Do you see -Looking at the document I believe it's

A

11 page two, talking about privileges in emergency 12 medicine. 13
14

Q
A

I see.

I was responding to that.
Are you surprised at the number of

16 verifications I'm showing you regarding Dr. Patrick?
17 18

A

No. (Whereupon, Defendants' Exhibit Number

19 20

27 was marked for identification.)
Q

Handing you what's been marked as The first page of this

21 Deposition Exhibit 27.

22 exhibit appears to be a copy of a letter you sent to
23 Vickie Hadley at Frankfort Regional Medical Center on

24 September 20, 2001 regarding Dr. Patrick.

Is that

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 133 of 218

Page 133
1 your signature?

Correct. Do you recall this letter? Only from the fact that I wrote it.
5 2001.
6

Q

Here you're using the flexible resident

7 one designation, correct?
8
9

A

Correct. And you're addressing the emergency

Q

10 medicine question indicating there is no 11 documentation to confirm that.

And I'm looking to

12 see why you're addressing that in this letter. 13

A

That is correct, I am addressing it,

14 and for the emergency medicine delineation of
1 5 privilege form that they're requesting.

16

Q

Which is the third page of this

17 exhibit, correct? 18 19

A

Correct. So sometimes you would address the

Q

20 emergency medicine question even if they haven't
2 1 specifically asked whether he completed an emergency 22 medicine residency? 23

A

No.

There would be something in the

24 verification request that would stimulate that

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 134 of 218

Page 134
1 response.
I !

2
3

Q
A

Okay. Either they asked for it or they sent

i
I

I

4 me a document like this, because obviously that's

5 what they're requiring.
6

They don't have to ask for it.

When I

7 see a delineation, I respond to their delineation.

8 So we always had something that they were asking. 9

Q

So the delineation of privilege form,

10 what is that signifying to you? 11

A

Well, this is a form that's filled out

12 by the physician when he's entering a hospital to get
1

13 privileges to do the following procedure. 14 15

I

Q
A

Okay. And that form is sent to us. Okay. And if you saw a form like this,
!

16

Q

17 then it would trigger you to respond and address the

18 emergency medicine residency question?
19
20

A

That s correct.
I

Q

And so by this point, by 2001, and the

21 number of verifications you've gotten, you know by 22 this point that Dr. Patrick

-- or at least some

i
I

23 institutions are asking whether Dr. Patrick completed
24 an emergency medicine residency at Jewish Hospital?
-. -.

..

.

-

.---.

.-

...

_ , T v -

-

LA

-

-. . ..

-

. .

.

-----

----z

.

-L

--

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121
- -

Filed 02/07/2008
-

Page 135 of 218

Page 135 Correct. (Whereupon, Defendants' Exhibit Number
28 was marked for identification.)

Q

Handing you what I've marked as Just as on off-shoot, I'm

5 Defendants1 Exhibit 28.

6 going to ask you about on the first page your

7 educational delineations. MA is your master's?

8
9

A

Correct.

Q
A

RN, is that registered nurse?
Correct. And PA-C? Physician assistant, certified. Is that a state certification? It's national. National? Okay. The second page of

16 this exhibit appears to be a copy of a letter you

17 sent to Rhonda Regan at Vista Staffing Solutions in 18 Salt Lake City on September 25, 2001.
19 signature?
20

Is that your

A

Yes. Do you recall this letter?

22

A

Only from the fact that I wrote it some

23 time ago.
24

Q

Again, addressing the same two issues

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 136 of 218

Page 136
1 in your letter that you have in the last couple 2 exhibits regarding the flexible resident one and the

3 emergency medicine program, do you see why you're
4 addressing the emergency medicine program in this

5 exhibit?
6

Based on their request on -- I guess

7 this is page three, they provide this and I respond

8 to that request. 9

Q

And youtre referring to on page three

10 of the exhibit it says type of training, emergency 11 internship, slash, residency? 12 13

A

Correct. Mr. Bowen, in the resident file as you

Q

14 maintained them, you know, we see a number of these 15 documents have your response, the request, Dr. 16 Patrick's release, sometimes a delineation form. 17

And I have, you know, stapled them Would

18 together when they appeared to go together.

19 you do that in the file?

Would you clip them or

20 staple them together as a packet?
21

A

I would put all of it together, each
That would have been

22 one together as one document.

1

23 my routine.
24

Q

By the time you left Jewish Hospital,

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 137 of 218

Page 137
1 how big was Dr. Patrick's resident file?

And by that

2 I mean can you give me a width of the documents

3 inside of it?

I -- I couldn't venture to guess.
5 donft know.
6

Q

Physically was it -- was it one manila What

7 folder?

Was it an accordion binder like this?

8 physically were the resident files kept in?
9

A

Typically they would be in a folder

10 such as that.
11

Q
A

Okay. And then we would put them in another

12

13 file

--

another folder, like a green -- so it can

14 kind of hang in the --

Okay.
16

-- like a hanging file.

It would fit

17 in to one of those.

18

Q

Would you just add more of these if a

19 physician file was getting fat 20 of them? 21

-- or too fat for one

No.

We would just, again, put it -- it

22 would accommodate a fair amount of paper.

23
24

Q
A

In the hanging folder part of it? Correct.

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 138 of 218

Page 138 (A discussion was held off the record.) (Whereupon, Defendantsf Exhibit Number 29 was marked for identification.)

Q
5 29.

Handing you what I've marked as Exhibit

This is a document provided to us by Jewish It appears to be a fax cover sheet to you

6 Hospital.

7 from a Jennifer Hayward at Vista Staffing Solutions.

8 The last exhibit we looked at was also related to

9 Vista, I believe. And it says in handwriting down below
11 in the comments:

Michael, here is the letter from

12 Dr. Heimlich.
13 able to find.

Please let me know what you have been

14

Can you put any context around this

15 statement?
16 17 18

A

No.

Q
A

Do you recall this at all?

No.
Do you recall ever having a

19

Q

20 conversation with Jennifer Hayward of Vista Staffing
21 Solutions regarding a letter from Dr. Heimlich?

22
23
1

A

Not to my knowledge. (Whereupon, Defendantsf Exhibit Number

24

30 was marked for identification.)

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 139 of 218

Page 139
1

Q

Handing you what I've marked as 1'11 ask you if you can

2 Deposition Exhibit 30.

3 identify that document, Mr. Bowen.
4

A

It appears to be a verification.

5 However, there's -- part of this document is missing.

6

Q

Why do you say that? Because my signature is not on it. Okay. And it looks to me like there will be

11

Q

Okay.

Does that appear -- does it

12 appear to be your handwriting that's on this page?
13

A

It is. And in response to -- under the

14

Q

15 verification on this page, 1 (b) -- (a) asks for date 16 and type of residency, and (b) says successfully 17 completed, yes or no.
18 there.

And you put a question mark

Why is that?
A

19

Again, not seeing the rest of this I don't know.

20 document I really can't comment.

21 There's more to this that I would like to see.

22

Q

Okay.

And is that -- am I reading it

23 correctly, you say he was here for only one year? Correct.

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 140 of 218

Page 140
1

Q

So you could be indicating that

2 something wasn't completed?
3

A

No,

He was only there for one year. Twelve months --

4 We have proof of that.

5
6

Q
A

Okay.

-- of training.
Okay. So you're not sure why you put

7

Q

8 the question mark there?
9

A

No.

A number of these I see ask about
11 sanctions or disciplinary actions taken against him 12 during the residency, and you've consistently checked 13 no. 14 And that would be noted in the file if

15 it had been -- if he had been sanctioned or 16 disciplined during his residency? 17
18
19

A

Correct.

It would have been.

(Whereupon, Defendants1 Exhibit Number 31 was marked for identification.)

20

Q

Handing you what I've marked as
Can you identify this

21 Defendants' Exhibit 31.

22 two-page exhibit, Mr. Bowen? 23
A

Again, it appears to be a verification

24 that I had completed.

Case 1 :05-cv-02791-LWDocument 121

F i l e d 02/07/2008 Page 141 of 218 Page 141

Q
A

And is that your signature on page two? Yes. And you appear to have completed this

Q

4 on July 10, 2002, correct?

5
6

A

Yes. And I see that on the first page, the

Q

7 fax cover page, that Elliott Fegelman is now listed

8 as director of Department of Surgery? 9 10 A
Q

Correct. All right. And you may have told me

11 this before, but when was that transition from Dr. 12 Wright? 13

A

I believe that Dr. Wright stepped down

14 as chairman -- I'm going to have to think about the 15 dates. 16 2002. 17 18 It was some time I believe in the fall of

Q
A

Okay. It was either like in June or Jcly,

19 somewhere in that vicinity. 20

Q

Okay.

So this may have been -- this
It could be

21 one is signed by you on July 10, 2002.

22 just after Dr. Fegelman took over that position? 23

A

Yeah.

I believe Dr. Fegelman took over

24 what we call the academic year, July 1, but I think

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 142 of 218

Page 142
1 he was in about May, June somewhere.

2

Q

Okay.

Did you ever have a discussion

3 with Dr. Fegelman about the number of verification 4 requests you were getting for Dr. Patrick?

5
6

A

No. Did you ever have a conversation with

Q

7 Dr. Fegelman about the number of requesters that were 8 asking about Dr. Patrick's participation in an 9 emergency medicine residency at Jewish Hospital? 10 11

A
Q

No. Does Jewish Hospital even today have an

12 emergency medicine residency program? 13 14

A Q

No. Based on your knowledge of Dr.

15 Patrick's file, resident file, do you believe it
16 would be proper to refer to Dr. Patrick as a surgical

17 resident? 18

A

He was in a surgical residency program

19 as a flexible intern for one year; therefore, he was 20 a surgical resident.
21
22
23

(Whereupon, Defendants' Exhibit Number

32 was marked for identification.)
Q

Handing you what I've marked as Exhibit

24 32, ask you if you can identify this document.

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 143 of 218

Page 143 1
A

Again, it looks like a verification

2 that I had done for somebody.

1

Q

This one appears to be from a Jim Dear Mr. Bowen, per our

4 Bentley, and it says: 5 telecon.
6

Do you recall a telephone conversation

7 with Mr. Bentley prior to this letter?
8 A

NO, I do not. And if you could just read your

9

Q

10 handwriting in to the record for me.

11

A

Dr. Edward A. Patrick served as a

12 flexible resident one in general surgery here at 13 Jewish Hospital from September 1, 1975 through August 14 31, 1976, signed by me. 15

Q

So that's your signature and the date

That would be correct. 18

Q

So it looks like you responded the same

19 day that you received this letter? Correct. Do you know anything about Jim Bentley?
22

A

I do not.
Would you have expected that he would

23

Q

24 have sent you a physician release or waiver before

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 144 of 218

Page 144
1 you would have responded to this?

2

A

Yes.

And that's

-- I think there are

3 some things again missing from this, again, from the

4 documentation.

5
6

Q

Okay. (Whereupon, Defendants1 Exhibit Number

7
8

33 was marked for identification.)

Q

Handing you what's been marked as This appears to be copies of

9 Deposition Exhibit 33.

10 additional correspondence from Jim Bentley dated July 11 15, and the second one dated July 16. 12

Again, they appear to be letters to you Is that your

13 to which you respond to at the bottom.
14 handwriting at the bottom of each page? 15

A

Yes. And on the first one could you read

16

Q

17 that in to the record for me, your handwriting?

18

A

Jim, Dr. Heimlich no longer is with He is retired.
I am not sure if

19 this organization.

20 he is still in the area. 21

Signed, Mike B.

Q

So this letter was requesting

22 information regarding the employment dates and job 23 titles of Dr. Heimlich, correct?

According to this, yes.

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 145 of 218

Page 145
1

Q

And then the second page, if you could

2 read your response again.

3

A

Jim, I am sorry I will not be able to

4 help you with this.

I do not have this

--

that

5 information, and I'm not sure who in this hospital
6 would.

We have moved from the old Jewish Hospital,

7 so I'm not sure where the records would be.

8

Q

Was it unusual for you to receive a

9 request like this regarding, say, a physician on
1 0 staff at Jewish Hospital?

11

A

On occasion I would receive something I didnlt think this was too far off,

12 like that.

13 because I had been in the organization a long time

14 and had probably as much knowledge more so than
1 5 anybody about other physicians.

16
17 there.

And this was asking about him, was he And I did not have any problems giving that

18 information, because I gave him nothing. 19

Q

And if you knew, you would have given

20 him the information? 21
A

Well, I wouldn't have had the That's just it. A lot of this, again,

22 information.

23 as I said, it's in the old building.

I don't have

24 that information.

And typically if it was about a

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 146 of 218

Page 146 1 physician, not a resident, it would go to the medical 2 staff office.

Q

Okay.

Do you recall whether you

4 referred this request to the medical staff office?

5

A

I probably didn't, because I knew the

6 medical staff office out at Kenwood didn't have this

7 information. And, again, it was asking about him, 8 and what I gave, I gave him nothing because we didn't

9 have anything.
10 11 12 13 Okay. (Whereupon, Defendants' Exhibit Number 34 was marked for identification.)

Q

Handing you what I've marked as Exhibit

14 34, a two-page exhibit, a fax sheet from Staff Care,
15 Inc., it says date 9-25, but from the fax imprint it
16 seems to be of 2003, to Jackie apparently at Jewish

17 Hospital. 18

Do you know who Jackie was or is? That would be Jackie Tribble, who was

A

19 administrative assistant. 20

Q

Okay.

And in September 2003 you had

21 left Jewish Hospital, correct? 22 23 24

A

Correct. You left earlier that year, correct? January 21.

Q
A

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 147 of 218

Page 147
1

Q

And so that would explain why you're

2 not responding to this verification request?
3
4

A

That would be correct. And this one -- have you ever seen this

Q

5 document before?

6

A

First time I've seen it. And you see on page two that the

7

Q

8 response was
9 Harris?

-- the verification was signed by Gary

10 11

A

Correct. Mr. Harris signed his title there as

Q

12 risk management and corporate compliance officer.

13

What kind of dealings did you have with

14 Gary Harris while you were at Jewish Hospital?
15

Well, he was our legal counsel.

He

16 would be our go-to person if we had questions of any

17 issues that came up.
18

Q

Did he also wear other hats other than

19 legal counsel? 20 21

A

If he did, I'm not aware. Do you see right above his signature The

Q

22 it's typed in next to an asterisk, it says:

23 one-year residency was not part of an emergency

24 medicine program?

So that's consistent with what you

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW Document 121 Filed 02/07/2008 Page 148 of 218

Page 148
1 had been verifying over the years. 2

And then he says:

The residency did What does

3 not result in any clinical designation.

4 that mean?

5
6

Don1t know.

Didn't write it.

Q

Okay.

Based on your experience in the

7 business, do you understand that some residencies do

8 result in a clinical designation?
9 10

A

Yes. And what does that mean? What is a

Q

11 clinical designation? 12

A

I would assume that they would have

13 clinical responsibilities on the floors, in the 14 operating room, taking care of patients. 15

Q

So in some residencies when they're

16 completed a doctor has the ability, then, to take 17 care of patients, be on the floor?

Is that -- am I

18 interpreting that correctly?
19 20 21

A

Not necessarily. Okay. It's a long process. As I said earlier

Q
A

22 this morning that, you know, residencies can be
23 anywhere from one to many, many years, and you need 24 certain amount of months of training to be able to

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 149 of 218

Page 149 1 sit for a board certification, and typically it's
2 clinical. 3

Q

At the time you left Jewish Hospital in

4 January if 2003, was Dr. Patrick's resident file

5 still kept with all the other resident files?
6
7

A

I don't know.
Was there a time before you left Jewish

Q

8 Hospital where you delivered Dr. Patrick's residency

9 file to Gary Harris?

10
11

A

Yes. Tell me about that. Prior to my leaving in January, I think

Q
A

12

13 I took it down to Gary.

I

-- again, I don't remember -- it may

14 the dates.

It may have been in December

15 have been in January before I left. 16 The reason was, was that I was

17 uncertain who was going to do verifications for
18 Jewish. Because this one had been verified so many

19 times, and I thought there would be concerns.

20

So I wanted to make sure that it went

21 to him in a secure

-- so we could take care of it as
--

22 these verifications would continue to come through, 23 because it was uncertain when I left Jewish who

24 was Mary going to do it, who were going to do

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 150 of 218

Page 150
1 verifications.

2

Q

Did you give any other resident files

3 to Mr. Harris at that time?
4

A

There are some old resident files down

5 in ABC, Alliance Business Center still. 6 give it to him.
7 archive files.

I didn't

They were still down there, the old

8

Q
A

So Dr. Patrick was the only one -Correct.

10

-- that you physically gave to Gary
A

1 1 Harris?
12

Correct. And when you say you thought there

13

Q

14 might be concerns, would be concerns, what were you
1 5 thinking of?

16

A

I think prior to my leaving -- again,

17 we had done multiple verifications, and I think there
18 was starting to be questions, if I recall, about the
1 9 accuracy of did he actually do this residency, if 20

I -- some things are coming back.

And I just felt

21 that I wanted his file to be secure and make sure it

22 stayed in the right hands.
23

Q

So your recollection is prior to you

24 leaving, some questions were being raised about the

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 151 of 218

Page 151
1 accuracy of his actually completing this residency?

2
3

A

Correct. Do you recall anything specific about The press? The

Q

4 who had raised these questions?
5 media?

Reporters?

Anything like that?

6

A

Not to my knowledge.

I do recall some

7 questions, again, not particular who they were from,

8 about the legitimacy of this.

Did you relay that to Mr. Harris?
10

A

I did. Had you had a conversation with Dr.

11

Q

12 Fegelman about that, about those questions being

13 raised? 14 15

No.

Q

Conversation with anybody else other

16 than Gary Harris about those questions being raised?

17
18

A

No.
(A discussion was held off the record.)

19

(Whereupon, Defendants' Exhibit Number
35 was marked for identification.)

21

Q

Handing you what I've marked as Can you identify this

22 Deposition Exhibit 35. 23 document, Mr. Bowen?

1 24

A

It appears to be an application for

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 152 of 218

Page 152
1 employment to house staff at the Jewish Hospital that 2 was completed by Dr. Patrick.

3

Q
A

Have you seen this document before? I can't say that I have. You don't recall that this was in his

4
5

Q

6 residency file?
7

A

It could have been.

If it was, I've

8 seen it and I don't remember seeing it.

Okay.

Does this look like a form you

10 were familiar with from other resident files? 11

A

This is a standard Jewish Hospital

12 appointment to house staff, and it -- there could be 13 very well in other resident files. 14 there I've just not seen them. 15

If they were

Q

Okay.

So it's just not a form you're

16 particularly familiar with?

17
18

A

Not exactly. (Whereupon, Defendants1 Exhibit Number

19

36 was marked for identification.)

Handing you what I've marked as
21 Deposition Exhibit 36.

It's a six-page document.

If

22 you could just take a moment to page through.
23

A

(Peruses document.) Have you had a chance to review this

Q

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 153 of 218

Page 153
1 document, Mr. Bowen?
2

A

Yes. The first page appears to be a letter

3

Q

4 to Dr. Patrick appointing him as a flexible resident

5 one, signed by a Robert A. Carney.
6 with Robert A. Carney?

Were you familiar

7
8 9

A

No. Do you know that name at all?

Q
A

I believe he was the chief executive

10 director before Mr. Falberg was appointed, and during
11 the seventies.
12

Q

By the time you got there in 1978 was

13 he there to your recollection?
14

A

To my knowledge he had moved on. And the second page appears to be a

16 one-page form called residency agreement.

Have you

17 seen that document before?
18

A

I don't recall seeing this before.
Okay. Did you see a form like this

19

Q

20 before in any file?
21

A

Yes. Does this look like the typical

22

Q

23 residency agreement form used by Jewish Hospital
24 during that time period in the mid-seventies?

--

s-.<-

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 154 of 218

Page 154
1
2

A

Yes. And as you sit here today you don't

Q

3 recall whether this form was in Dr. Patrick's

4 resident file?

5
6

A

Not to my knowledge. Not

Q

-- you don't recall, or to your

7 knowledge it was not?

8
9

A

I dontt recall.

Q

Would you expect the form -- this form

10 that would be in a residentts file to be signed by
11 the resident? 12

A

I would assume, given what I see here,

13 that the resident gets it and he has to acknowledge
14 it and sign it.

So I would assume it should be

15 signed by a hospital representative in addition to 16 the resident representative -- or the resident.

17

Q

Okay.

And you see there's a -- the

18 next page to the agreement 19 documents together.

-- and, again, I put these

I t m not making any

20 representation that this is how they've been produced

21 or how they are maintained.

22

But the next document is a one-page

23 document called supplement to residency agreement.

24 Have you seen this document before?

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 155 of 218

Page 155
1

A

I believe I have seen this.
Do you believe you saw this in Dr.

2

Q

3 Patrick's resident's file?

I do.
Do you know whether you've ever seen a
6 signed copy of this document?

That, I don't recall. Did you rely on this document in

9 responding to verification requests?

I went through his file basically from
11 front to back, and any documentation that I could use 12 to answer any questions that could come before me.

13 Having seen this before somewhere in that file, I 14 could see that it was a true rotating internship.
15

Q
A

Okay. And to be very precise about my

16

17 verifications, I wanted to make sure that I wasn't

18 missing something, that we did have a residency in
19 emergency medicine.

So to satisfy my own self, I

20 went through the documents to make sure that I was
21 very factual in what I presented.
22

Q

Okay.

Under

-- if you look on this

23 document, under where the months the rotations are

24 laid out, the next paragraph starts with the sentence

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 156 of 218

Page 156
1 that says:

A program designed in this fashion will

2 fully satisfy the requirements of a flexible program

3 of the Jewish Hospital which is a joint program under

4 the auspices of medicine and surgery.
5

Were you familiar with this flexible

6 program?
7
A

No. Were you familiar with any requirements

8

Q

9 that related to the flexible program?

10

A
Q

No. Do you know Dr. Gordon Margolin?

11

12
13

A
Q

I do.
Did you cross paths at Jewish Hospital Were you there at the same time? Yes. Is he still at Jewish Hospital?

14 with him?
15

16
17

I d o n u t believe so.
Was he still there when you left? No. Did you ever have a conversation with Dr. Margolin about Dr. Patrick?

18
19

20
21

22
23

A

No. Do you recall seeing any other document

Q

24 in Dr. Patrick's resident file that delineated the
--*I?

.

-

I

*

".--*..----

, =---

-

,-d__

I

.----->

-_--

_

1

f

-- --

I

,-

---7-

*

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 157 of 218

Page 157 1 monthly rotations in this or a similar way? 2
3

A

I don't recall. (A discussion was held off the record.)
(Whereupon, Defendants' Exhibit Number

4
5
6

37 was marked for identification.)

Q

Handing you what I've marked as Mr. Bowen, have you ever

7 Defendants' Exhibit 37.

8 seen this document before? 9

A

I believe I have.
Was this in Dr. Patrick's resident

10
11 file?

12
13

A

I believe it was.
And is this the certificate that you

Q

14 testified about earlier today that was sent out to a

15 vending company to prepare -- or a vendor to prepare?

16

A

This would be similar.

Now, what they

17 did back then, I can't answer. 18
19

Q
A

I understand.
What we do today, so. This is a

20 certificate, although it's very difficult to read.

21
22

Q
A

Right.

I don't know how they did it, but this

23 is basically what I was speaking of.

24

Q

Okay.

And is this -- a certificate

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 158 of 218

Page 158
1 like this is something that you generally saw in

2 residents' files?
3

A

When they provided us copies. As I said before, some residents had

4 had them, yes.

5 them in there, some didn't. 6

Q

Okay.

And this appears to be typical

7 of the form that Jewish Hospital was using in the

8 mid-seventies?

A
10 it

Well, having not seen a lot of them,

--

again, I can't read these signatures, but I

11 would assume that it was.
12

Q

What if a former resident at Jewish

13 Hospital years later contacted you and asked for a 14 copy from his file.

Would you give it to him?

15

If it was there.

16

Okay.

You would have no problem doing

17 that?

18
19

No. Okay. Typically what we would do, though, is

21 I would ask the person to send me something in

22 writing requesting that.
23

Q
A

Okay. We would make a copy and put it in the

' 24

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 159 of 218

Page 159
1 file so people can see that we have done that at

2 their request.
3

Q

Can you recall any instances where that

4 request was made of you?
5
A

No. Do you recall ever seeing a certificate

6

Q

7 other than Dr. Patrick's that identified -- that used
8 the term "resident one" to designate the

-- what had

9 been successfully completed?

10
11 else. 12

A

I don't know if I've seen anything

I don't know.

Q

Okay.

Well, that may have all seemed

13 like a prelude.

Now I'm going to start asking you

14 about the article that's the subject of this lawsuit 15 and your contacts with Tom Francis, the reporter 16 who's a defendant in this case. 17

Tell me what you recall about your

18 first contact with Tom Francis.

19

A

I don't remember if

--

I believe the

20 first time I spoke to him he called my office I 21 believe after I had left Jewish Hospital.

I want to

22 say it may have been in the spring of 2004.
23

Again, I'm kind of

-- and it may have
I think I spoke

24 been before that.

I don't remember.

Case 1105-cv-02791-LW

Document I 21

Filed 0210712008

Page 160 of 218

1 to him an kw,d ~ccasions.
2
1

Q

Okay.

3

A

If memory sexvas me r i g h t ,
@ -:

l$@ &&3ephbne?

5
6
-7
,

W

Correct.

t l
A

Okay.

'
I

And he was asking m e about the

@ residmcy programs and t h i n g s of t A a t naturg and
9 about Dr. P a t r i c k .

10

11

w u

c n sacall, as best $mi mn delineate t h e t w o ,
I

U $our $if%

i
I

& : E

we Ban, let's try to focus on what

Crsnvex'satLlon with hgm,
Very diffi~ultt~ ~wember.

13
14

,A

Q
i

Qkay

.
a ~ 6 .w t b

15

16 gbeut t h e residency, very much l i k e you hage asked
$7 t h t s &mLng,
!

l A
Q
A

I ifb remember h . a L

a d u t resieents- I will t e l l you ag

18 $rantlthat he did n m understand it at all.
19
And what makes you say that?

283

Because when I: wqulc?. e x p l a i n to him, h e

21 would s t i l l w n k i n u e to ask me the same quaati~n.
2(2 And 2 t h i n k him being a reporter that's j u a t h5m
I

23 doingj his job.

Case 1105-cv-02791-LW

Document I 21

Filed 0210712008

Page 161 of 218

Page 161
I

A&x:

m&&* ,ma%@& @a @%34+lpQ W? && - m ~ ~ r $3 ~'wM% g % W a-* hut = @ m p a @ y
& * @ -&

/
I I

g

E

,

And was very factual about my conversation w i t h
4

-&

*

,

, .

. -

r m ,&@* .,. .,
<

,

. ? . .

,

I

i

Did he i d e n t i f y himself as a r e ~ x t e r ?

11

I want to say t h a t he did.

nid he i n d i c a t e to you what he w a s
I

16

.&
r

17

Q

Had you had any

prior experience In
!

18 dealihg with reporters?
19

2 0 limited basis,

I

A

I have dealt with reporters on a very
When I have, I've always, you know,

b

I

I

21 Been very f a c t u a l , and not

22

I mean, things t h a t I have very concrete,

I

--

it's n o t discussing

-C

ye@, the

23 person was whatever, and t h a t was it.
24
I

Q
I

Did you have any warning t h a t Mr.

i

i

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 162 of 218

Page 162
1 Francis would be calling you before he called?
2

A

Not to my knowledge. Did you have any hesitancy in talking

3

Q

4 with him?
5
6

A

No. Did you at all consider -- well, let me So you had left Jewish Hospital, you

Q

7 ask you this:

8 were still with Health Alliance? 9

No, I was not. You were with UC Surgeons?

10 11
12 correct.

I was with UC Department of Surgery,

13

Q

Okay.

But there had

--

were there any

14 kind of policy at your place of employment about

--

15 did UC Surgeons have a PR person or a communications
16 person?

17
18 19

No.

Not at the time.

Did Jewish Hospital? Yes. Okay. Was there a policy at Jewish

20

21 Hospital about media inquiries and how they should be 22 handled?

23

A

If there was, I wasn't aware of it. Okay. So you had no problem talking to

24

Q

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 163 of 218

Page 163
1 Mr. Francis?
2

A

No.

I've always spoke the truth. I'm factual. I've been

3 There was nothing to hide.

4 consistent.

I didn't feel there was any reason that

5 I wasn't going to do

-- say anything that was not

6 going to be truthful.

7

Q

When you indicated earlier that you

8 thought he didn't understand because he kept asking
9 the same questions over, do you have any examples?

10 Do you remember what questions he kept asking?
11

A

Well, he kind of wanted to put words in

12 my mouth that, you know, did the guy

--

was he there, We kept going

13 did he actually do emergency medicine. 14 back to the same

-- same comment.

15

And I got a little upset with him and

16 said don't you 17 telling you?

--

aren't you listening to what I'm

This is how it is. Did you sense that he was getting upset

18

Q

19 with you?

No.

I was probably getting a little

21 more upset with him because he wasn't listening to 22 what I was trying to tell him. 23

Q

Do you recall whether you discussed

1 24 with Mr.

Francis, as you have with me, kind of

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 164 of 218

Page 164 1 whether there was a distinction between internship
2 and residency and some of these terms that we've 3 talked about today, PGY-1, flexible, that kind of

4 thing?

5

A

Absolutely.

I discussed with him in

6 length in detail just as I have with this group this

7 morning.
8

Q

Did you

--

did he indicate to you, do

9 you recall, that he had any documents in front of him
10 that you had signed any of the verifications,

11 anything like that?

12

A

I want to say that he had seen I don't remember.

13 something or knew of something.

14

Q

Can you estimate for me how much time

15 passed between your two conversations with him?
16 17

A

May have been several months.

Q

And is there anything you can recall

18 about the second conversation specifically?

19

A

I think the second conversation was

20 more, again, repeating what we had said about the
21 first conversation.

I know my second conversation

2 2 was more pointed to him trying to get him to 2 3 understand about residencies, how they work.

24

I explained to him.that back then

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 165 of 218

Page 1 6 5
1

emergency-medicine physicians did not require Many

2 fellowships to practice emergency medicine.

3 times physicians would get their M.D. and they would

4 go moonlight in emergency rooms, and that was

5 perfectly acceptable.
6

Not everybody needed to be board And today if you go

7 certified in emergency medicine.

8 in to emergency medicine departments in small towns, 9 I'm sure you will find physicians who are not board
10 certified in emergency medicine.

11

So this was a bone of my contention

12 to get him to understand that someone could actually 13 go through a residency and then go work in an

14 emergency room, and it would be perfectly acceptable
15 back then.

So you felt that was something he was
17 asking about, trying to understand with regard to
18 emergency-room physicians?

19

A

He was trying to understand.

I kind of

20 wonder if he got the point after I spoke to him.

Okay.

I was hoping he would understand that.
Okay. Again, and we were also talking about

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 166 of 218

Page 166
1 resident education, the process.

So I didn't --

2 again, I did not feel uncomfortable speaking to him.
3

Q

And did he ask you specific questions

4 about Dr. Patrick?

5

A

I think he had spoke with Dr. Patrick
And I said, yes, our records indicate

6 at Jewish.

7 that he was there for one year.
8

Q
A

Okay. Pretty much what I have said all along. Do you recall any other questions that

9

10

Q

11 he asked you that may have been specific to Dr.

12 Patrick?
13

A

No.

You know, the typical question,

14 you know, was there emergency medical residency.

15 And, again, I would go back and say, no, we didn't
16 have one. 17

Q

And of course you were aware at that

18 time based on a lot of these verification requests 19 that some people seemed to believe or had been asking
20 you about Dr. Patrick and an emergency medicine 21 residency?

22

A

Right.

But then I also understand that

23 people are not always knowledgeable in what they're

24 asking for.

And knowing the field of medicine and

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 167 of 218

Page 167
1 especially residencies and especially emergency

2 medicine, it's very confusing, as we have found out.
3

But it was my job to educate and to

4 verify what really does occur in real life, and
5 that's what I did.

6

Q

Was there any part of your conversation

7 with Mr. Francis that you asked to be confidential or
8 off the record? 9

A

No. Have you ever

--

you say you've had Have you ever used

11 limited contact with reporters.

12 that term in discussions with reporters about I'd

13 like some of this to be off the record, or I'll just 14 talk to you off the record?

15
16

A

No. Okay. When you were describing getting

Q

17 a little upset with Mr. Francis, was that in the
18 first conversation, the second, or both? 19

A

Mostly the second, I believe. Okay. Do you recall telling Mr.

20

Q

21 Francis that you had done more verifications for

22 Dr. Patrick than any other physician while you were
23 at Jewish?

24

A

I don't recall.

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 168 of 218

Page 168

1

Q

Now, you indicated that before you left

2 Jewish that you were aware that some concerns had

3 been raised about the accuracy of Dr. Patrick's
4 residency, correct?

5

A

Not so much the accuracy, but there

6 seemed to be multiple people requesting information

7 about it.

8

Q

Okay.

Okay.

Multiple people other

9 than just institutions requesting verifications?
10
11

A
Q

Correct. When you were -- when you talked to

12 Mr. Francis, were you at all familiar with Scene,

13 Cleveland Scene?
14 15

A

No. Did he at all, say, during the second

16 conversation tell you more about what kind of story
17 he was working on? 18

A

I believe he informed me that it was

19 about Dr. Heimlich, I believe, if memory serves me

20 correctly.
21

Q

Okay. And some of the things that Dr.

22

A

1

23 Heimlich had done as far as some of his -- the 24 Heimlich maneuver and things of that nature.

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 169 of 218

Page 169 1

Q

Okay.

D o you r e c a l l him e v e r t e l l i n g

2 you t h a t h e was w o r k i n g on a s t o r y a b o u t D r . P a t r i c k ? 3
A

I c a n ' t s a y t h a t h e s a i d h e was w o r k i n g

4 on a s t o r y .

H e wanted i n f o r m a t i o n a b o u t D r . Okay.

Patrick.

5

Q

D i d h e a s k you a n y t h i n g a b o u t

6 D r . Heimlich? 7
8
A

Not t o my knowledge.
1'11 show you t h e a r t i c l e i n a m i n u t e ,

Q

9 a n d I ' l l h a v e some q u e s t i o n s f o r you a b o u t i t . 1 0 came o u t i n O c t o b e r 2004.
11 f i r s t r e a d i t ?

It

Did you

--

when d i d you

12

Well, l e t m e a s k you f i r s t , h a v e you

13 r e a d t h e a r t i c l e a b o u t D r .

P a t r i c k t h a t Tom F r a n c i s

1 4 wrote?

15 16 one

You may h a v e t o h e l p m e .

Was t h a t t h e
I d i d read

-- I

g u e s s t h e r e was a n a r t i c l e

--

17 t h a t , b u t I t h i n k I h a v e r e a d -18
19

Q
A

T h e r e were t w o a r t i c l e s t h a t h e w r o t e . T h e r e were t w o I b e l i e v e . Yeah.
I

20 t h i n k I ' v e s e e n them a l l . 21

Q

Okay.

One p r i m a r i l y a b o u t D r . H e i m l i c h P a t r i c k --

22 and one p r i m a r i l y a b o u t D r .

23
24

A

I believe t h a t ' s

--

Q

--

d o you r e c a l l ?

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 170 of 218

Page 170 1
2
A

Yes. Okay. Do you recall whether you read

Q

3 the one about Dr. Heimlich before you saw the one 4 about Dr. Patrick?

I read the first one when it came out.
Okay. 7 copy? Did you read it online? Hard

How did you -- in what form did you read these

8 articles?

1

A

I want to say that I read them -One also appeared I

10 perhaps they were online.

11 believe in the Business Courier. 12 where I read them. 13 14 15

I don't remember

Q A

Okay.

I don't know.
After talking to Mr. Francis but before

Q

16 the articles came out, did you talk with any of your

17 colleagues at work about your conversation with Mr. 18 Francis?

11

A

I think I called Gary Harris just

l9 20 to inform him that I had spoken about this and just

21 to let him know.

Because, again, he was legal

Legal counsel for -For The Health Alliance.

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 171 of 218

Page 171
1

Q

So he really had no position with UC

2 Surgeons?

3

A

Correct. Okay. No. So you let him know that you had talked

4

Q
A

6

Q

7 to a reporter?
8 9

A

Correct. Do you remember what you told him about

Q

10 your conversation with the reporter?
11

A

I said that I had been contacted by the

12 reporter, he was asking about Dr. Patrick, Dr.

13 Heimlich.

I had said that I had told the same thing

14 repeatedly, yeah, he was there, we can prove it. 15 And, again, I indicated, you know,

16 here's -- you know, here's what residents do, here's 17 how emergency medicine works, and pretty much tried 18 to give him the information that I had given to the

19 reporter.

20

Q

Do you recall whether that conversation

21 was after your first conversation with Mr. Francis? 22 Second? 23 In between?

A

I believe the two times that Mr.

24 Francis contacted me that I was -- I called Gary and

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 172 of 218

Page 172
1 said, just to let you know I've spoken to this

2 person, I just want you to be aware. Anybody else -No.
5

Q

-- thac you recall taking to about your

6 conversations with Mr. Francis?

7
8

A

No. How about when the article came out -Is it your recollection

Q

9 and you read both of them.

10 that you were only quoted in one of them? 11 12

A
Q

I believe so.
Okay. And I'm talking about the When that came --

13 article that you were quoted in.

14 when you read that article for the first time, did 15 you -- who did you talk to about it, if anyone? 16 I think that I spoke with Steve

17 Friedmann, who is still a colleague of mine. 18
19

Q
A

Okay. And I think I also spoke to Gary Harris

20 again. 21

Q

What do you recall about your

22 conversation with Steve Friedmann? 23
24 at it.

A

I said this article is coming out, look

Because, as you can see, he had verified --

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 173 of 218

Page 173
1

Q
A

Right.

2

-- this file.

And said, I just want

3 you to see it.

Did you talk at all about anything
5 specific that was in the article?

6
7 said.

A

I said that it certainly is not what I

And as I said to you prior, that when you try

8 to tell the reporter how the business really works,

9 it certainly wasn't written that way.
10

Q

Did Mr. Friedmann ask you any questions

11 about your article -- the article or your 12 conversation with Mr. Francis? 13

A

No. Did anybody, after the article came

14

Q

15 out, say anything like -- to you like why the heck

16 did you talk to a reporter?
17

A

No. After the article came out when you

18

Q

19 spoke to Mr. Harris, what did you tell him?

A

I had spoken to the reporter, it has to

21 do with Dr. Heimlich, Dr. Patrick, be aware of it.

22 You know, there's
23 written.

--

I guess there will be an article

We'll wait and see what

--

pretty much

24 again just information sharing.

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 174 of 218

Page 174 1

Q

And you t h i n k you t a l k e d t o M r . H a r r i s

2 a g a i n a f t e r t h e a r t i c l e came o u t ?
I t h i n k I l e t him know when i t came
4 out.

I s a i d , Gary, h a v e you s e e n t h i s , you know, you

5 may w a n t t o l o o k a t i t .

6

Q

Did you t e l l him a n y t h i n g more a b o u t

7 t h e article?

8
9

A

No.
Did you g e t a n y o t h e r r e a c t i o n when t h e Anybody c a l l you a n d s a y I saw you Patrick?

1 0 a r t i c l e came o u t ?

11 were q u o t e d i n t h i s a r t i c l e a b o u t D r .

12 1 3 from

A

I want t o s a y t h a t I r e c e i v e d a c a l l

--

i t may h a v e b e e n Pam King a t J e w i s h p e r h a p s .
Okay.

15 16 out. 17

J u s t t o s a y , hey, t h e r e ' s a n a r t i c l e

D o you remember h e r s a y i n g a n y t h i n g

18 e l s e ?
19 20 No.

8

Do you remember you s a y i n g a n y t h i n g t o

21 h e r about t h e a r t i c l e ?

22 23
24 S u r g e o n s ?

A

Nothing p a r t i c u l a r .

Q

How a b o u t anybody you worked w i t h a t UC

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 175 of 21(

Page 1;

1
2

A

No. So this article, when it came out

Q

3 regarding Dr. Patrick, was not a topic of

4 conversation at work?
5

A

Not really. How about the one about Dr. Heimlich

6

Q

7 that came out a little earlier?

8 9

A

Not really. Did you have any conversations with Is that the correct

Q

--

10 is it Susan Greenwood Clark?

11 name? 12
13

A

Correct.
Did you have any conversations with her

Q

1 14 about either of your conversations with Mr. Francis

15 or the article?

16

No.

The only thing she knows is I told

17 her I would be in this deposition today.
18

Q
A

Oh, okay. I had to let her know that. Have you talked to anybody else that And I'm thinking of Dr.

19
20

Q

21 was quoted in that article?

22 Margolin, Dr. Canestri or Dr. Matern?
23

No.

24
b

And you say you do know Dr. Margolin.

-

7

;

.-<

.- - .

= r -

---------

_-.---I---

-

--

-

-7

-

-I

-

-.

Case 1 :05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 0210712008

.- ..
J

I

!

-1

.1-1-\

Page 176 of 21 8

1
2

$WU

mot^ Dr. c~snes~tri2
iA
1 dt3.
t a l k e d to h i m abog$ thig

3
4 lawsuit?
6
I

g
&

%. pmbably s i x

yaam.
Ei* yeass?

7
8 Matesn.

fl

Okay.

I

Dbl ym k m w him?
W
f h o w hfrd w@ll.

9

Dx. Ma-tBfn k$loc&tmi

lo
12

to Hain@
J

three years @go, and I haven't spoken

11 ta

aiinoe,

Q

Mdyuu say you WowhirnweZl,

R@w&~

13 pa@ Lrrpw; him sa w e l l ?

I

14
I

A

When I 4kart& a t Jewish Ln 1478 w
was a p ~ e ~ e p k o . o2 3

-- '4%~

hine, &a I w o r k e d

1% s i d s by dide .with h i m .

8 % was my *trending surgeon

17 th&

1 wmld work 'Chr-h

as B physician sspiaiskant

ld s-k~~mfi-k, land w e bwame trxlfy p a d *&ends.
39

$2

Since ponrve mentioned I t , 1'11 a s k
seen it b e e r e .

"2.0 ~ Q U . I
21
A

Whatys a Weceptsr?

n p&&capt&f $%; a pemk2.a that basically
and sfipmise y@ur wcwkYngs:

22 will t a k & you

I

Bka3.

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 177 ot 218

Page 177

A mentor?
Mentor, exactly. Okay. (Whereupon, Defendants1 Exhibit Number
38 was marked for identification.)

Handing you what I've identified as
7 Defendants1 Exhibit 38, which is a printout of the

8 online version of the article entitled Playing
9 Doctor, written by Thomas Francis, that was published

1 10 in Scene hard copy on October 27, 2 0 0 4 .
11

When is the last time you've read this

Probably when it came out. You did not read it in preparation for

1 15 this deposition?
Not really.

I1
t

Q

If you could turn to page three, at

l7 18 least on the online version that's where your name
19 appears most prominently.
20

Oh, yeah.

I want to kind of just go through the

1

22 references to you and the quotes attributed to you

I

23 and ask you about each of them.

Okay.

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 178 of 218
--

Page 178 1

Q

I f you go down to the -- I think the

2 fourth full paragraph, these are all short

3 paragraphs, but where it says before hiring a

4 physician.

Do you see where I am?
Urn- hmrn

5
6

A

.
Before hiring a physician a

Q

It says:

7 hospital checks the doctor's work record.

At Jewish

8 Hospital, Mike Bowen handled verification requests 9 relating to residencies, and he soon learned of Ed

10 Patrick. 11 12 statement? 13 Do you agree, or disagree with that

A

Well, when we're hiring a physician, They do the

14 that's the hospital, and they do.
15 verification, primary source.

16 17

Q
A

Okay. At Jewish Hospital Mike Bowen did

18 handle the verifications for surgery.

19 20

Q
A

Okay.
It says related to residencies.

No.

21 That is a fallacy. 22

Surgery. Relating to surgical

Q

Okay.

23 residencies?

24

A

Surgical residents.

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 179 of 218

Page 1 7 9 Okay. Surgical residents. Okay.

4

A

Okay.

And as soon as he learned of

5 Edward Patrick
6 means.

-- I'm not sure what that statement
Do you believe it's inaccurate

7

Q

Okay.

8 or false that you soon learned of Edward Patrick in
9 that role? 10

A

I don't know what it means. Okay. In my role I learned of a lot of And, yes, I learned

11
12

Q
A

13 residents long before my time. 14 of Dr. Patrick.

No different than anybody else. The next paragraph: By the

Okay.

1 6 mid-1990s, Bowen had accumulated a massive file of 1 7 verification requests for Patrick. 18

We'll stop there.

Do you believe that

1 9 is accurate, or inaccurate? 20

A

It's inaccurate. Okay. And what's inaccurate?

21
22
23

Q
A

A massive file? What's massive?
Okay. Would it have been accurate to

Q

1

24 say it was a larger file than most of the residents

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 180 of 218

Page 180

1 that you did verifications for?
2

A

I'm not even sure I would have It was a file. Didn't you have

3 commented on it.

4

Q

Okay.

--

did you have

5 no discussions with Mr. Francis about the volume of

6 verifications you had done for Dr. Patrick?
7

A

I think I probably would have said I

8 had done numerous.
9

Q

Okay.

Is it possible that you may have

10 told him that you had done more for Dr. Patrick than 11 any other physician?
12

A

Probably not.
MR. JEFFREY BLANKENSHIP: MR. ZIRM:

13
14 15

Objection.

I'm sorry? Objection;

MR. JEFFREY BLANKENSHIP:

asked and answered.
17

Q

Okay.

So anything other in that

18 sentence regarding the massive, the characterization
19 of the file as massive that you believe 20 what you believe is inaccurate in that?
21

-- that's

A

I believe the word "massive" is

22 inaccurate.
23

Q

Okay.

And then it says:

Who is

24 circulating his bizarre resume far and wide.
,.-.-

--

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 181 of 218

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 182 of 218

1

I imagine you have no knowledge of

2 that?
3
4

A

I have no knowledge of that. It naturally raised eyebrows

Q

-- and

5 then it goes in to a quote:

In my business if you

6 see something time and time again, you start to

7 wonder, says Bowen.

It didn't take a rocket What

8 scientist to figure out something was amiss.

9 was this guy up to?
10

Is that an accurate quote?
Part of it is and part of it isn't. Which part is accurate and which part

11
12
13 is 14

-A
In my business if you see something That is

15 time and again, you start to wonder.
1 6 correct.

17

Q

Okay.

And did you say that to Mr.

18 Francis in the context of Dr. Patrick?
19 20

A

Correct. And then the second part? That -- I wouldn't say that something There's nothing to amiss because I verify

Q
A

21

22 is amiss.

23 somebody multiple times.

24

Q

Okay.

So it didn't take a rocket

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 183 of 218

Page 182
1 scientist to figure out.

Do you recall using those

2 words in talking to Francis about a rocket scientist?
3

A

I don't recall that.
Okay. But you don't believe you said

4

Q

5 that something was amiss?
6
7

A

No. Do you recall saying to Francis what

Q

8 was this guy up to, in a questioning way?

9

A

I don't recall that.
Okay. The next one: Good question,

11 but Bowen ignored it.

Over the next several years he

12 received requests from hospitals around the nation 13 asking about Patrick's credentials.

14

Bowen was aware that Patrick's claim to

15 an emergency residency was false -- no such program 16 had ever existed at Jewish

-- but he verified the

17 residency anyway.
18

Well, there's a number of sentences in Tell me what you believe is accurate and

19 there.

20 what's inaccurate.

Good question, Bowen.
22 sure what that means.

I'm not really

I guess it's referring to the previous
24 quote, what was this guy up to.

And he's saying good

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 184 of 218

Page 183

I

1 question, but Bowen ignored it.

2
3 inaccurate?

Do you believe that's accurate, or

Inaccurate. What's inaccurate?

11

A

In the fact that I would be very I don't leave things

7 specific about what I said.

8 open-ended.
9

Q
A

Okay. Over the next several years he received

10

11 requests around the nation asking -- I wouldn't say
12 Patrick's credentials.

I would say his verification.

Okay. This is not about his credentials. Okay. Bowen was worried that Patrick's 17 emergency residency was false.

I wouldn't -- no.
19 false.

We didn't say it was We don't have

We said it never existed.

Okay. And what I said, no such program ever

24

Q
.

Okay.
-Cz_-:iil

So that's accurate?
__..*.L_._~-W__

.-

I----.-=-

.-

-

+

... .*

I---

i : . i

._

..- _'.

_ -_f

_

.r_-

.

r

:

-

. ..

.

I

.

- .

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 185 of 218

Page 184
1

Right.

But he verified the residency

2 anyway.
3

What residency are we talking about? That's in

I

4 verified that he was there.

-- I did

5 verify residency, a flexible internship one. 6
7
8

Q
A
Q

Okay. According to this. Okay. It's wrong.

If that is indicating that you

9 verified the emergency medicine residency, that's

10 false, you believe? 11 12
A

Correct. Okay. The next paragraph: From my

Q

13 standpoint, I knew -- it was a quote:

From my

14 standpoint, I knew he was at Jewish for a year, says

15 Bowen.
16

That's -Correct.

17 18

-- accurate?
Yet he admits he knew nothing about

19 what Patrick was actually doing there, and he never 20 alerted hospitals that were considering hiring 21 Patrick about this fact. Is that accurate? Inaccurate. What's inaccurate?

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 186 of 218

Page 185
1

A

I think by the verifications today

2 we've certainly said that he was there as a flexible

3 rotating internship.

4
5

Q

Okay. And we let everybody know exactly, per

6 your documents, that we have.

7

Q

Do you recall having a conversation

8 with Mr. Francis about whether you could

--

whether

9 you knew actually what Patrick was doing day to day
10 while he was there during that residency?

11
12

A

No. Okay. So you believe that the

Q

13 documents show that you did know actually what he was

14 doing there, he was doing the flexible rotating

15 internship?
16

A

The documents verified that. Okay. And then the next part says:

17

Q

18 And he never alerted hospitals that were considering
19 hiring Patrick about this fact. 20 21 22 23

Is that accurate, or inaccurate? A That's false. Okay. What's false about that?

Q
A

Well, as I said just a moment ago, it's When we did

24 not our job to alert hospitals.

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 187 of 218

Page 186 1 verifications, as we have seen this morning time and

2 time again, it's been very factual.
3 this was negative. 4

So I just think

Q

Okay.

So it's not -- the fact that you

5 never alerted hospitals is not necessarily false,
6 because that's not your job?
7

MR. JEFFREY BLANKENSHIP:
the form of the question.

Objection to

8 9

Q

Do you believe it's your job to alert

1 0 hospitals of exactly what Patrick was doing in his
11 residency?

12

A

My job was to verify the information,

13 which we did correctly. 14 15
16

Q
A
Q

Okay. That's my job, and we did it. Okay. And if there was something that

17 the hospital was asking about, that based on your 18 review of the file you knew was inaccurate, you did 19 not believe it was your job to alert the hospital

20 about that; is that correct?
21
A My job was to verify the information

2 2 requested.

As we have seen in documents this

23 morning, I would give them exactly what they asked 24 for.
.
^"

Emergency medicine, no.
I

It didn't exist.
. -.
-

---.,

-

1

*

.-.. .,--,-.-

r . n _ L -

I=--

-

L z i _ -

=--*snc--il---r..-

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 188 of 218

Page 187 1 2 saying:
3 my job.

Q

Okay.

And then it quotes you as That's not

I'm not a policeman, says Bowen.

Is that an accurate quote? 5
6
7

A
Q

I think that's inaccurate. You think it's inaccurate? I don't think I said it. Okay. Do you recall using the word

A

8

Q

9 "policeman" at all when you spoke to Bowen 10 sorry -- when you spoke to Francis? 11 12 A

--

I'm

I don't recall using that term. Okay.
Do you recall ever saying,

Q

13 that's not my job, about anything to Francis?

14

A

Possibly. Okay. Do you recall what context that

16 might have been in? 17

A

No. Patrick, it seems, seized this

18

Q

19 opportunity, applying for licenses in four states

20 during Bowen's tenure. 21 residency. 22 23 24 Accurate?

Each time, Bowen verified his

I would say so. Okay. Bowen says he once mentioned

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 189 of 218

1 Patrick's name in passing to someone from the Ohio

2 Medical Board, but doesn't remember whom.
3

Is that true? False. Okay. Did you discuss -- did you

4
5

6 mention Patrick's name to anyone from the Ohio

7 Medical Board at any time?

8

A

After the articles came out I did speak

9 to Tom Dilling, executive director.

So before the articles came out you had 11 never mentioned Patrick's name to anyone at the Ohio
12 State Medical Board?
13

A
Q

No. And you never told Francis that you

14
15 had?
16

A

No. He assumes the board looked in to the

17

Q

18 matter.

If those officials never found cause to yank

19 Patrick's license, that's good enough for him.

20

True or false? True. Did you ever tell Patrick --

MR. JEFFREY BLANKENSHIP:

Were you

asking if he said that, or are you asking if

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 190 of 218

Page 189 the statement itself is true? MR. ZIRM: Well, let me clarify. All right.

MR. JEFFREY BLANKENSHIP:
4

He assumes the board looked in to the

5 matter.
6

At the time this article was written,

7 is that true, or false?
8 9 1 0 there.
1 1 telling

A

True. Well, there's a little inconsistency

You didn't -- before the article you're me you didn't mention Patrick to the Ohio

1 2 State Medical Board? 13

A

That's correct, I did not. Did not. So it wouldn't make sense,

15 would it, that you assumed the board looked in to the
1 6 matter?

Or were you assuming that they had from

17 other complaints or sources looked in to Patrick's --

18 the Patrick matter?
19 2 0 license.

A

No.

My assumption was he has a

The medical board does their due diligence That's my assumption. So that if the Ohio

21 to give these licenses.
22

Q

I see.

Okay.

23 State Medical Board granted the license, that's good 24 enough for you?

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 191 of 218

Page 1 9 0
1

A

Absolutely. Essentially that's what you're saying

2

Q

3 is accurate, if that's what this is saying?

4
5

A

Yeah.

Right.

I mean, it's --

Q

And if they found no cause to yank his

6 license, that's good enough for you?
7 8

A

Correct. Tell me about your conversation with

Q

9 Tom Dilling after the article came out.
10

A

The article came out I believe

--

I

11 think I saw it on a Friday.

I gave Tom a call at the

1 2 board and just said, hey, Tom, I just want you to

13 know there was an article that came out and it
14 discusses about the Ohio State Medical Board, and 1 5 just wanted you to be aware of this. 16

Q

Did you tell him anything about your --

1 7 did you make any statements about the statements in 1 8 the article attributed to you to Mr. Dilling? 19

A

I told him that I was interviewed for

2 0 this article, and wanted you to be aware that it's 2 1 out, you may want to review this.

22

8

Okay.

And did you tell him that the

23 article misquoted you? 24

A

I said there were some inaccuracies in

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 192 of 218

Page 1 9 1
1 the article.

2

Q

Did you relay those inaccuracies to

3 anything you were attributed to saying?
4

A

Not particularly. And what did Mr. Dilling say to you? He said that he would take a look at

5
6

Q
A

7 the article maybe later in the day if he had some

8 time.
9

Q

And did you have a subsequent

1 0 conversation with him about it?

11

A

No. And had you had

12

Q

--

did you have a

13 relationship with Mr. Dilling?
14

A

No. Did you

--

was that the first time you

16 ever talked to him?
17

A

No.

I'm appointed to the State Medical

18 Board to represent PAts on the PA policy committee.
19
20

Q
A

Okay. While a member there, Tom was still the

21 executive director.
22

Q
A

Okay. So I worked with him in a professional

23

24 manner.

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 193 of 218

Page 192 1
Q

Okay.

So you had a professional

2 relationship with him prior to this?
3
4

A

Correct. (Whereupon, Defendants' Exhibit Number

5
6

39 was marked for identification.)
Q

You told me -- you believe you've told

7 me about every conversation you recall having with

8 anyone about either of your conversations with Mr. 9 Francis or the article?

10

A

The only other one was I believe the

11 statement -- the deposition you're going to show me, 12 I spoke to I believe Dr. Patrick's counsel. 13 14 39. 15
16

Q

Okay.

Good segue.

Showing you Exhibit

Can you identify this document for me?
F.

Correct. What is it? It's an affidavit that I did apparently

Q
A

17

18 in March 2006.
19

Q

And you recall signing this affidavit? Correct. And this affidavit is accurate and true

20 21

A

Q

22 to the best of your knowledge and belief?

23

A

To the best of my knowledge and belief

24 it is accurate.
r
l l

>

.

6

-

..-..- *.
n

--,,. - - _ -n, .

I

=---

.

-_=

-_-- __ _

*_1_

-1.

* . * u

7

r

.>

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 194 of 218

Page 9 3
1

Q

Look at paragraph three:

During our

2 conversation, Mr. Francis repeatedly asked questions
3 as to Dr. Patrick not having completed his emergency

4 medical residency at Jewish Hospital. 5

I informed him at least three times
Instead, Dr.

6 that no such program was in existence.

7 Patrick completed an approved flexible rotating
8 internship.

Was that the conversation you testified 10 to about earlier where you felt he wasn't 11 understanding you or hearing what you were saying? 12
13

A
Q

Correct. Now, paragraph four -- let me ask you

14 this:

When you talked to Mr. Francis, you were aware

15 that you had been requested to verify an emergency

16 medical residency for Dr. Patrick, correct? 17 18
19

A
Q
A

Correct. On more than -- on multiple occasions? Correct. Didn't it seem -- so it must not have

21 seemed unusual or surprising to you that a reporter 22 might be asking about an emergency medicine residency 23 for Dr. Patrick, was it? 24

A

No.

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 195 of 218

Page 194
1

Q

So what got you I guess a little upset

2 was that he didn't seem to be understanding or

3 accepting your explanation?
4

A

That's correct. Did you feel he was confronting you? Yes. And what particular issue do you feel

5
6
7

Q
A

Q

8 he was confronting you, or issues?
9

A

I think it had to do with the education

10 process of how an emergency-medicine physician would 11 get their job without a residency. 12
13

He could not understand the fact

--

didn't understand or didn't want to understand, or

14 was looking not to understand this.

Q
16
17

I see.
I was very specific about how this

A

works and how they get in to the business and you

18 don't need this particular education.

19

Q

I see. And that's what you address in

20 paragraph four of your affidavit?
21
22 23

A

Correct. You say:

Q

Mr. Francis raised his voice

at me as our conversation continued. Is it fair to say that you also raised

24

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 196 of 218

Page 195
1 your voice with him as a sign that you were getting

2 upset?
3

Correct. Okay. In response, I asked him why he

5 was trying to put words in my mouth, and finally said
6 to him, quote, goddamn it, what is it you don1t
7 understand about this, close quote.

8
9

I assume that's an accurate quote? That's very accurate. Okay.
A
Q

I'm surprised I didn't say worse. Okay. Upset. Okay. When you said that to him, do So you were very upset?

A

Q

15 you recall what his response was?

16

A

He was coming back at me, you know, He

17 again, wanting information, don't understand it. 18 got belligerent about it. 19

Q

Okay.

So it sounds like the two of you

20 may have been yelling at each other?

No.
22
Q

Not yelling. Do you feel he was conducting

Okay.

23 himself unprofessionally?

A

In some ways, yes.

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 197 of 218

Page 196 In what ways? Again, it was my feeling that when you
3 speak to somebody -- and I think I'm an expert in

4 this field.

When I give you the documentation and

5 the verification and I tell you exactly how it is,

6 but then you don't get it on the third time, there's
7 something more to this.

So I did feel somewhat taken

8 back by it.

9 10 A

Okay. And knowing it was a reporter, we know

1 1 how things work with them.
12

Q

And I've got to ask you what you mean

13 by that. 14

A

They're going to write what they want

15 to write.

16

Q

Okay.

What words did you think he was

17 trying to put

in your mouth?
I think he was trying to tell me that

18

A

19 Dr. Patrick, how could he be an emergency-medicine
20 physician without ever having done this residency.

21
22

Q
A

Okay. And was he truly at Jewish Hospital. Okay. You say Dr. Patrick -- the last

23

Q

24 paragraph:

Dr. Patrick's residency at Jewish

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 198 of 218

Page 1 9 7

1 Hospital is valid and approved by the accrediting
2 body.
Correct. What's the basis for that statement? That he was at Jewish Hospital, he was
6 there for the time that I said he was.

The residency

7 was approved, fully approved by the accrediting

8 body.

I'm not sure if it was the AMA at the time or

9 the ACGME

.
And how do you know that?

10

Q

I mean, how

11 would I go about demonstrating that that one-year

12 flexible rotating internship was approved by the
13 accrediting body at that time?
14

A

You would probably have

--

again, I You

1 5 don't know if it was AMA approved or the ACGME.

16 would have to research either the ACGME or the AMA to
1 7 ask what programs were approved back during that

18 time.
19

Q

Okay.

And you would expect there would

20 be some written historical documentation indicating
2 1 what programs at Jewish Hospital were approved 22

--

A

That s correct.

-- and accredited?
Yeah. This is one of the older

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 199 of 218

Page 198
1 surgical residencies in the country, 1933.

Q

Okay.

Now, when you're saying that his

3 residency was valid and approved, are you referring

4 to the surgical residency?

5
6

A
(1!

Correct. You're not necessarily asserting that

7 the flexible intern

--

flexible rotating internship

8 was separately accredited and approved?
9
10

A
Q

No, sir. So because you

--

that was through the

11 Department of Surgery, you are concluding that it was

12 accredited and approved?
13

MR. JEFFREY BLANKENSHIP:

Objection to

the form of the question.
15
16

I'm not sure what

you mean by the "it."

Q

Is that his flexible -- you articulated

17 very well earlier in the deposition when you said his

18 flexible rotating internship was under the auspices
19 of the Department of Surgery, and therefore was 20 accredited and approved; is that correct? 21 22

A

Correct. So thatls the basis for your making

Q

23 this statement

--

24

A

Correct.

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 200 of 218

Page 199

-3

in your affidavit?

Correct.

Q

A11 right.

But just so I'm clear, in

4 your view, based on your knowledge of Dr. Patrick's

5 residency file, if he claims to have served a two- or
6 three-year emergency medicine residency -- or

7 completed a two- or three-year emergency medicine

8 residency at Jewish Hospital, that would be a false 9 statement?
10

A

I could not verify that. And you never saw any evidence in

11

Q

12 Dr. Patrick's residency file that he participated or
13 completed some kind of specially designed emergency 14 medicine residency under the supervision of Dr. 15 Heimlich, did you?

16
17

A

I never saw one. MR. ZIRM: Give me one minute. I may

18
19

be deferring to you. THE VIDEOGRAPHER: off the record? MR. ZIRM: Yes. Please. Do you want to go

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are off the record. The time is 1:17.

(A brief recess was taken.)

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 201 of 218

I

Page 200 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: record. We are back on the

The time is 1:21.

Q

Mr. Bowen, I appreciate your time.

I

4 only have one more question for you, then Mr.

5 Blankenship has the opportunity to question you. 6

My question has to do with Dr. Matern, Do you know what

I

7 who you say relocated to Maine.

8 town, city in Maine he relocated to? 9

A

I do not. MR. ZIRM: Okay. Thanks for your

time.

Appreciate it. Thank you. Mr. Bowen, I

THE WITNESS:

MR. JEFFREY BLANKENSHIP: have a few questions.

I will be nowhere
I'll try

near as long-winded as Mr. Zirm. to be brief. EXAMINATION

I

18 BY MR. JEFFREY BLANKENSHIP:

Have you seen any documents in all of
20 the documents that we saw or in Dr. Patrick's
2 1 resident's file that were signed or authorized by Dr.

22 Patrick in which he indicates that he did emergency
23 internship or residency anywhere? 24

A

No.

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 202 of 218

Page 201

1

Q

Do you know if Dr. Patrick had actually

2 done additional residency work beyond that which he
3 completed at Jewish?

4

A

I'm not aware of any.

5

Q

Would you -- if it were done somewhere

6 else, would you have that in your file?

7

A

No. Do you recall what level education and

Q

9 state licensing was required in 1975, or do you know,
10 before a medical school graduate could begin his 11 residency?
12 13

A
Q

I do not.
Let me call your attention to Exhibit

14 3, which Mr. Zirm had shown you during your

15 examination.

I believe you indicated this document

16 had been completed by Steve Friedmann; is that
17 correct?
18 19

A

Correct. And his title at the time he completed

Q

20 this was what?
21

A

Director of medical education, or

22 medical education director. 23

Q

Okay.

Do you recall -- were you still

24 at Jewish at the time he completed this document?

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 203 of 218

Page 202
1

A

This was -- I'm looking to see what

2 date this was here.

3

Q
A

I believe it's October of 1995. I was.
Okay. Do you recall ever seeing this

5

Q

6 request for this verification yourself?

7
8

A

No. Do you know how Mr. Friedmann would

Q

9 have gotten Dr. Patrick's file in order to verify his

10 residency?
11
A

He would have gone to the

--

either he

12 would have gone to the file where we have the files, 13 or asked Pam King to get this file. 14

As I said earlier, that these documents

15 sometimes would come to the Department of Internal
16 Medicine or up to Steve's office.

They were sharing

17 an office.
18
19 know how

But, again, I would only

--

I don1t

--

if he would have pulled the file or Pam

20 would have pulled the file. Did he have a key to the cabinet as

I believe he did.
Okay. One more question about that

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 204 of 218

Page 203
1 document.

At the beginning -- someone has circled

2 the word "administrator" at the beginning of the 3 document next to Steven Friedmann's name.

Do you see

4 that?
I do.

As opposed to having circled medical

I

7 education director or director of radiology.

Do you

I do see it.
That is actually a mistake, isn't it? I would say so. He was not the administrator, was he,

1

13 at that time?
14

A

Not according to this.

He was -- he

15 should have 16

-- medical education director.
Okay. In a number of the documents

17 where you were requested to respond to Dr. Patrick's

I

-- excuse me

-- requested to verify Dr. Patrick's

19 residency, you had made the statement that your

20 records do not indicate that he completed an ER
2 1 residency, emergency medicine residency, correct?

22

A

Correct, In 1975-1976 when Dr. Patrick was doing

1

23

Q

24 his flexible rotating internship at Jewish, was there

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 205 of 218

Page 204 1 anywhere in the nation an emergency medicine

2 residency?
Not to my knowledge. Do you know when that began?
5

A

If memory serves me correctly, it began

6 here at the University of Cincinnati back I believe

7 in about 1978, I believe.

1

Q

All right.

Did you explain to Mr.

9 Francis when you spoke to him that when Dr. Patrick

10 did his rotating internship

--

flexible rotating

11 internship to which we've alluded, that there was no 12 emergency medicine residency anywhere in the country? 13 14
15

A
Q

Yes. You did explain that to Mr. Francis? Yes. Did he seem to understand it? MR. ZIRM: Objection.

A

Did his responses to you indicate 19 whether or not he understood it? Yes. What -- his responses indicated that he
22 did understand that at that time there was no
23 emergency medicine residency?

24

A

Yes.

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 206 of 218

Page 205
1

Q

What response, specifically, if you can

2 recall, indicated that to you? 3 4

A

I think he said okay. Do you specifically recall making it

Q

5 clear to him that there was no emergency medicine
6 residency anywhere at that time?
7

A

I believe I did. Let me call your attention to Exhibit

8

Q

9 13, please, and also to Exhibit 19

--

I want to make

10 a point here in a moment, if you will indulge me just 11 a moment, Mr. Bowen 12 lastly Exhibit 31.

--

as well as Exhibit 15, and

13

For the record, would you identify the

14 date of birth for Dr. Patrick that is given to you in

1

15 each of these distinct documents.

Well, this one obviously -Please identify by exhibit number, if
18 you would.

1

l9 20 birth.

A

Exhibit 31 has an incorrect date of Other documents

It's dated here 10-7-1937.

21 have the date as 22 dates 10-07-47. 23 24 34.

--

document 13, 15 and 19 have the

Q

Okay.

And let me also show you Exhibit

What date of birth does that one give you?

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 207 of 218

Page 206

I

A

According to this Exhibit Number 34, it

2 says date of birth 1 0 - 0 7 - 1 9 3 7 .
3

Q

So there's a ten-year distinction

4 between the two sets of documents, isn't there?
5

Yes.

1

Q

Do you recall whether you noticed that

I

7 when you got the documents -- the document requests 8 in? 9

No. You don't recall, or you didn't notice

10
11 it?

12

I didn't notice it.

1

Q

Okay.

I think you testified earlier

14 that you thought you would have noticed something
1 5 like that, but apparently you didn't, did you?

16

A

It is possible that I could have missed

17 some of those, the date of birth.
18

Q

Now, if you had noticed that the date

1 9 of birth was wrong, would that be the type of thing

20 you would have corrected in your response?
21

A

I would have probably wrote a note out

22 to the side, questionable date of birth.

But I also

23 like to look at the Social Security number to be 24 correct.

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 208 of 218

Page 207
1

Q

Okay.

Is the Social Security number
z

2 more important to you than the date of birth in 3 verifying that you're talking about the same
4 individual?

5 6

A

Yes.
<

Q

Were there any other Edward Patrick's

7 that you're aware of that had done a residency on

8 whom you had a file?
i

9
10

A

Not to my knowledge. At any point in time in either of your

11 two conversations with Tom Francis of Cleveland Scene 12 did Mr. Francis ever point blank ask you if Dr.

13 Patrick could have done any additional residency
14 beyond that which he completed at Jewish Hospital? 15 16

Not to my knowledge.

Q

May I take those exhibits back,

17 please.

Thank you. In your questioning by counsel you went

19 through a number of statements in the article. 20 you recall that?

Do

Correct.

I want to call your attention, if you
I

23 would, please, again to page three of five of the
24 article, and ask you to -- I want to ask you to

i

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 209 of 218

Page 208 1 comment on the paragraph that begins: By the

2 mid-1990s, Bowen had accumulated a massive file of
3 verification requests for Patrick, who was

4 circulating

--

and I'm quoting the article

--

his

5 bizarre resume far and wide.
6

Did you ever characterize Dr. Patrick's

7 resume as bizarre?
8 9 resume.

A

I would never have commented on his

10
11

So that did not come from you?

A

No, sir. Okay. At the bottom of the first page

12

Q

13 there's a quote by the author of the article, 14 underneath the photograph of Dr. Patrick, apparently

15 an older photograph of Dr. Patrick, referring to the

16 fact that there's no evidence that Patrick has an 17 emergency doctor's training, so his presence in the
18 ER is worrisome.

19

Do you see that?

Do you see that quote

2 0 right below Dr. Patrick's photograph?

MR. ZIRM:

Just to clarify, I don't It's just a statement

think it's a quote. hels making.
A

Oh.

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 21 0 of 218

Page 209 1

Q

You didn't say anything about Dr.

2 Patrick's presence in the ER being worrisome, did 3 you?

No, sir.

5

In fact, if I understand your

6 testimony, you tried to explain to him that that's 7 not uncommon? 8

A

That's correct. And for the record can you explain one

9

Q

10 more time why that's not uncommon? 11 12 13 14

MR. ZIRM:
answered.

Objection; asked and

Q
A

You can go ahead and answer, It is not uncommon for physicians to

15 have gotten their medical license, gotten some form

16 of training, and have gone in to work in emergency 17 departments, particularly in a small rural community. 18 In major metropolitan areas typically the 19 emergency-medicine physicians are board certified. 20 But, again, prior to about 1978 there

21 were no residencies, and a lot of physicians earned a
22 lot of income in emergency

--

doing emergency

23 medicine work. 24

Q

Do you know if Dr. Patrick ever became

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 21 1 of 218

Page 210
1 board certified?

2 3

A

I have no knowledge. That wouldn't be in your residency

Q

4 file, would it? 5

It would not.

6

Q

What's the significance of being board

7 certified if you're a physician?

8

A

Currently it has to do with being able

9 to get -- to get liability insurance, professional
10 liability insurance.

The third-party payors now, if

1 1 you're not certified, basically they're not going to
1 2 pay for your services. 13

It's a higher standard now.

Q

How does an emergency-medicine doctor

14 become board certified? 15

A

They do

--

they do four years of

1 6 pre-medical, they do four years of medical school, 1 7 and they do anywhere from three to four years of

18 emergency medicine fellowship or a residency, and
1 9 then they sit for the national certifying boards.

20

Q

Now, as I understand it, once they

21 obtain that board certification, that's not the end 22 of it, is it? 23

A

Well, a resident of emergency medicine,

1 24 they have to maintain continuing medical education.

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 212 of 218

Page 211
1 Typically it's a hundred hours every two years.

2

Some certifying boards now require that

3 you be recertified, taking an examination.

I do not

4 know if emergency medicine falls in to that group.

5

Q

Okay.

Let me call your attention to a

6 statement below the middle photograph on the right
7 section of page two of five of the article which is
8 at issue in this case about Dr. Heimlich and Dr.
9 Patrick having credibility problems.

Do you see

10 that? 11

A

Yes, sir. Did you say anything like that to

12

Q

13 Mr. Francis?
14

A

No. There's a quote in the article

16 referencing the conversation with you by Mr. Francis

17 which states, quote:

Yet he

--

referring to you

--

18 admits he knew nothing about what Patrick was

19 actually doing there -- being at Jewish

--

and he

20 never alerted hospitals that were considering hiring 21 Patrick about this fact.

22

Now, when Dr. Patrick was at Jewish you

23 werentt there?

24

A

Correct.

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 213 of 218

Page 212
1

Q

So the only information you would have

2 had about what Dr. Patrick was doing at Jewish would

3 have been based upon what you found in his residency

4 file or what other people told you, correct?
5 6 A
Correct. And you said I believe previously that

Q

7 you didn't discuss Dr. Patrick's residency with 8 anyone in terms of what he was doing during his
9 residency; is that correct?

10 11
12 file? 13
14
15

A

That's correct. So all you knew was what was in the

Exactly. At any point

-Five minutes and

THE VIDEOGRAPHER:

16 17

1'11 need to change the tape.

Q

At any point did you tell Mr. Francis

18 that he needed to consult with other persons about
19 the extent of Dr. Patrick's residency to determine if

20 he did anything else after his residency at Jewish?

21

A

I don't believe I said that to him.
In paragraph of your affidavit

22

Q

--

of

23 the affidavit that you provided to our office,
24 Exhibit 39, paragraph two, you referred to the fact

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 214 of 218

Page 213
1 that you told Mr. Francis that no such emergency
2 medicine residency was in existence.

3

You were not -- do you see that

4 statement in paragraph two?

5
6

A

Urn-hmm. You need to say "yes.(I Yes. When you made that statement to Mr.

Q
A

7
8

Q

9 Francis, were you referring to the fact that Jewish
10 had no such residency, or that nobody had such 11 residency? 12 A

We, at Jewish Hospital, had no such

13 residency in emergency medicine.

14

Q

Okay.

But when you made that statement

15 to Mr. Francis, were you just referring to Jewish, or 16 were you referring to the fact that there were no 17 emergency medicine residencies anywhere at that time? 18

A

Well, when we were discussing Jewish Then we

19 Hospital, no, there was nothing at Jewish.

20 went on to -- I went on to elaborate that they didn't 21 exist back then.
22 23

Okay. MR. JEFFREY BLANKENSHIP: finished.
I think I'm

1

24

If we can just take a moment,

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW
-

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 215 of 218

Page 214 please. MR. ZIRM: Sure. We are off the

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: record.

The time is 1:39.

(A brief recess was taken.) THE VIDEOGRAPHER: record. We are back on the This is tape

The time is 1:42.

three of today's deposition. MR. JEFFREY BLANKENSHIP: further questions, Mr. Bowen. your time. THE WITNESS: MR. ZIRM: Thank you.
I have no

Thank you for

I just have a few based on

questions that Mr. Blankenship asked you.
15 1 6 B Y MR. ZIRM:

RECROSS-EXAMINATION

17

Q

Have you ever seen one of Dr. Patrick's

1 8 resumes or CVs?

19

A

Not to my knowledge. Do you have any knowledge of any

Q

2 1 additional residency training that Dr. Patrick may 2 2 have had after the one-year flexible rotating

23 internship at Jewish Hospital?

1

24

A

I have no knowledge.

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 216 of 218

Page 215 1

Q

So you have no personal knowledge as to

2 whether Dr. Patrick has sufficient training to be an
3 emergency-room physician, do you?

4

MR. JEFFREY BLANKENSHIP:

Objection;

asked and answered previously. You can answer. I have no knowledge.

I

Q

When you began at Jewish Hospital in

9 1978, was Dr. Heimlich still director of surgery?

He was not.
MR. ZIRM:

That's all the questions I

have.

MR. JEFFREY BLANKENSHIP:
further. THE VIDEOGRAPHER: record.

Nothing

We are off the

The time is 1:43.

(Deposition concluded at 1:43 p.m.) (Signature waived.)

---

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 217 of 218

Page 216
1
2 STATE OF OHIO

C E R T I F I C A T E

3

: SS:

4 COUNTY OF HAMILTON :

5

I, Renee Rogers, the undersigned, a duly

6 qualified and commissioned notary public within and 7 for the State of Ohio, do hereby certify that before
8 the giving of his aforesaid deposition, the said 9 Michael Bowen was by me first duly sworn to depose

10 the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 11 truth; that the foregoing is a deposition given at 12 said time and place by the said Michael Bowen; that 13 said deposition was taken in all respects pursuant to 14 Notice and agreement of counsel as to the time and
15 place; that said deposition was taken by videotape

16 and by me in stenotypy and transcribed by 17 computer-aided transcription under my supervision;
18 and that review of the videotape and examination and

19 signature to the transcribed deposition are expressly

20 waived.
21

I further certify that I am neither a

22 relative of nor attorney for any of the parties to 23 this cause, nor relative of nor employee of any of
24 their counsel, and have no interest whatsoever in the

Case 1:05-cv-02791-LW

Document 121

Filed 02/07/2008

Page 218 of 218

Page 217
1 2

result of the action.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I hereunto set my hand
and official seal of office at Cincinnati, Ohio, this 23rd day of February, 2007.

3
4

5
6
7
8 9

M y commission expires:
April 13, 2011

Renee Rogers Notary Public-State of Ohio

Sign up to vote on this title
UsefulNot useful