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where we we refer to each other as girls. I feel like I especially picked this up during my time at the Health Department because I was conducting outreach as part of my internship for the SHIN study. !t the beginning we were like" #How do we identify girls" or how do we not out them in a public setting$% !nd so what we did is we&d go up to somebody and be like" #'h" what&s the (" girl$% to kind of see how they reacted. )ut #girl% is *ust I guess something that I use with everybody—all the other trans girls—regardless of age. I think it *ust has to do with something about being trans girls and trans identified. It&s funny. Nia: (hat&s cool. (he way I was raised" referring to an older black woman as #girl% would be a big no+no" but I understand it&s different, Lexi: -eah" I&m not sure I&d do it to their face" .laughter/ and be like" #'h" hey girl.% )ut" that&s the lingo I guess. Nia: (hat&s cool.
.musical interlude/ Welcome to We Want the !irwaves. 0y name is Nia 1ing. (his week on the podcast I had the pleasure of interviewing 2e3i !dsit" who" until recently" was a student organi4er at San 5rancisco State. She is now working on organi4ing the first International (rans Women of 6olor Network 7athering with a number of other organi4ers" including 2ovemme 6ora48n" who was on the podcast last year. 9ust a little bit of housekeeping news: I&m going to be putting out one episode a month this year because I&m trying to *uggle a number of other pro*ects" and I want to make sure the episodes I&m putting out are ;uality. I encourage you to support the podcast by donating at artactivistnia.com. (hanks< Without further ado" here&s 2e3i. .musical interlude/ Lexi: 0y internship started this past summer with the Department of =ublic Health in San 5rancisco. It was a part of their SH!>= =rogram" which stands for the Summer HI?@!IDS >esearch =rogram" and so I was fortunate to be able to run a secondary analysis of semi+ structured interviews that were conducted with older" mostly !frican !merican" HI?+positive trans women. In their interviews it was ama4ing to go through" and it was also really emotional for me" because so much of their lives is in there" and so much history. I feel like especially for the trans community often that history isn&t told until we&re dead. !s you know" this has been the case with Sylvia >ivera" 0arsha =. 9ohnson and all the other trans women of color that haven&t had their lives told.
So I constructed this giant diagram" per se" kind of trying to map out how different factors such as race and labor and gender and transition and coming out all impacted their lives" and looking at specific instances where health disparities came up" because the interviews were initially focused on HI? treatment and getting these older women back into treatment or back on anti+ retrovirals. I had to have a health lens about it. So I was kind of looking at intersectionality and specifically how their e3periences would lead to health issues. (here was one girl who had been unable to enroll in this labor program because she had been HI? positive. It was so early in the epidemic that they didn&t know what to do with her" so they *ust kind of re*ected her. So she didn&t start getting treatment until she was in *ail. ven thinking about the fact that these are stories from the late ABCs" early ADCs" early ABCs, Nia: >eally not that long ago.
Lexi: It&s still not that long ago" and I think statistically" we&re seeing trans women of color e3perience these similar issues" especially with high rates of vulnerability such as survival se3 work" drug and alcohol abuse" homelessness and poverty and all that *a44 that gets so interconnected" especially with incarceration. (here&s an issue of medical treatment and I think that&s really tied to our value in society. Nia: -eah. I thought it was interesting that you mention the one woman that you talked to wasn&t able to get treatment until she was in *ail. Did you find that a lot of people were only able to access health care once they were incarcerated$ How common is that$ Lexi: I didn&t have a chance to actually speak to the girls because it was a secondary analysis. So what that means is" I *ust had the transcripts and also the audio recordings. Nia: Where did you find them$
Lexi: (hey were provided by my mentor at the =ublic Health Department. She had already written a piece on getting these girls into care and kind of what their stories looked like and why they had fallen out of care. (hat was the main pro*ect of my internship" to kind of go back through and see what I could find being a trans women of color and also having a fresher take on things in a sense. So I looked at intersectionality more. )ut I&m totally forgetting what your ;uestion was. Nia: It was whether you found a lot of people are only able to access medical care once they&re incarcerated. Lexi: 'h" right. What I found was kind of that being in prison was one of the few places where medical care was actually re;uired" in a sense. It was messy because even the girl who had gotten in and gotten care" they were still in an e3perimental phase with all the drugs. So she&d been receiving complications later because of being given those drugs so early on and them not really knowing what those drugs were doing.
So were they testing out these new drugs on prisoners$
Lexi: It seemed like that might have been the case. I&m pretty sure it was only with prisoners who had contracted HI?" but it seems like that was the case. Nia: Do you know if there&s more documentation about stuff like that happening" or you *ust came across this one instance$ I know that wasn&t the focus of your research. Lexi: I&m not sure and it&s been interesting because I think if we were to do a historical analysis of trans women in not *ust medical care but medical care while imprisoned" it would shine a really big light on some atrocities. I remember reading in my undergrad about Sylvia >ivera even receiving e3perimental hormones and her boobs had at one point secreted yellow pus because there was something in her body that wasn&t supposed to be there. I think that&s something that&s really missing" too. Nia: It sounds like there are two things that could be potentially going on and it&s hard to discern which is actually happening. 'ne is" there is a history of things being tested on prisoners that are completely unethical and because they&re a super+vulnerable population they&ve been e3perimented on" but the other is" ;ueer and trans folks *ust trying to do anything they can to get hormones or get HI? treatment and being willing to try things that maybe aren&t necessarily #approved%. Lexi: -eah. So one of the other women" or girls— Nia: -ou can say girls. It&s all good.
Lexi: She had been in *ail for a minute and she had a lover" and so they were together for like" five or si3 years in *ail. (hen she had gotten out and it had been a few years and then he had gotten out. He had come out to the )ay for her but she had been putting down money for all his e3penses. (hen there was a point where he was stealing from her for drugs and other things. She had been doing really well" she had gotten a *ob with some non+profit organi4ation here in the )ay. So this re+visit from the guy almost got her back into her former behaviors of doing drugs and whatnot. So she reali4ed it was really important to cut him out and make sure that she didn&t fall back into that behavior" which I thought showed a really strong resiliency. I&ve never personally had issues with drugs or alcohol or anything but I think that&s something that I see a lot in fellow trans women and trans women of color is that kind of resiliency to be able to recogni4e the issues in our lives and whether we can actually do something about it or not. So" yeah" that was one of the bigger stories that hit home for me. I *ust thought that was a really great moment of resiliency and adaptation. Nia: -eah. Her reali4ing she had to get rid of this guy because he was a bad influence$ (hat&s really tragic.
Lexi: >ight$ Nia: )ut it&s also important to be able to identify when someone&s not a positive force in your life. Not all of the women whose transcripts you were reading were in prison" correct$ Lexi: No" not all of them had e3perience in prison. 'ut of a total of like eight" I think maybe three had not been in prison. Nia: 5our of your papers are on your website and I think they&re all about trans women of color" so you&ve obviously done a lot of research on that topic in addition to" obviously" your own lived e3perience. Do you find it difficult to, I guess on the one hand it&s pretty well+known that because trans women of color face challenges at every turn whether it&s education or *obs or housing or medical care that a lot of them do end up in prison or doing things that could land them in prison. Do you ever find it challenging to" I want to say" represent your community in a way that doesn&t reinforce stereotypes$ )ut I feel like stereotype kind of oversimplifies it" right$ (here&s the reality which is there are a lot of barriers to trans women of color being able to make an #honest living"% but then also you don&t necessarily want to reinforce the idea that all trans women are drug dealers and prostitutes. Lexi: >ight. Nia: Is that something you struggle with" or what are your thoughts about that$
Lexi: I guess it&s not something I struggle with anymore personally. (o share a little bit of my coming out story" I guess" I started identifying as transgender and I came out to my parents my sophomore year in college" which is about four years now. 5our years and a month. !nd so what happened was my mom had a really huge problem with it" so there was a point where they were about to give me an ultimatum about whether to continue to receive funding for school or go in transition. I was totally prepared to go in transition. It was a mess because thinking back on it I didn&t have resources or any sort of fallback option that would make any sort of sense for a ED+ year+old trans girl" but that&s when my mom received a diagnosis of advanced esophageal cancer. Nia: Wow.
Lexi: !nd so for the ne3t two years we had as a family really worked on dealing with the cancer and fighting the cancer. So to make a long story short she passed away in !ugust FCEF and then I started hormones three weeks after. 0y dad and I have had a really good relationship and he&s been e3tremely supportive. (hat&s kind of how I&ve been able to transition safely" but I personally do have a history of doing se3 work. I don&t talk about it as much as I could. Nia: Is it something you&re comfortable having on the record$
Lexi: -eah" absolutely. !nd so it&s interesting to think of that #stereotype% or image of the trans women of color who goes and deals drugs or is a se3 worker. I have a lot of friends who have done that or who still do that and do it successfully and safely" too" in a sense. !nd I think it&s interesting to see because I know more prominent trans women of color who also have gone through that and are sharing that in their books or in their own stories. !nd so I think for me being someone that&s an #accomplished% or #successful% trans woman of color" I think it&s important to own that personal history and know that it&s a part of who I am and it&s a part of what I&ve done in the past. Nia: So that sort of combats the stereotype of the #tragic se3 worker% or that there&s something inherently sad about having done se3 work. (hat makes a lot of sense. Speaking of being a successful and accomplished trans woman" I was asking you earlier what you were most proud of" and you were telling me about an award that you won at S5 State which you *ust graduated from. 6ongratulations. Lexi: (hank you" thank you. So last spring I was awarded one of two social *ustice awards from our dean of students and they throw an annual Student 2eadership !ward ceremony. (he Social 9ustice !ward is probably the biggest award out of all of them and it&s awarded to individuals whereas some of the other awards get awarded to groups or faculty sponsors or something. So a lot of the groups that often get invited to the Student 2eadership !wards are involved in student life or sororities and fraternities. Historically" there hasn&t been a ton of ;ueer representation. I know there have been a few other organi4ations on campus that may have won an award or two but I don&t think we&ve received anything of the Social 9ustice !ward magnitude. Nia: Is it usually sort of campus Democrats or environmental+type stuff$
Lexi: -eah" so the 1+D 6lub. Nia: I don&t know what that is.
Lexi: I think they&re a volunteer organi4ation. So yeah" a lot of those groups are the ones that are involved and I had been nominated by one of my friends from my department" which was the Women and 7ender Studies department" and she had written this beautiful essay about all the work I&ve been doing in the past year. I guess I can talk about the work. So I founded and chaired the Gueer -o& 0ind 6onference for two years. (he first year it was a one+day conference and we got over FCC people and then the second year was a two+day conference and we got FCC people on the first day and over EHC people on the second day. Nia: !wesome.
Lexi: So it&s the only ;ueer conference that we&ve had in a really long time. !lso it was uni;ue in the sense that a part of our mission was to build these bridges between academia and ;ueers in academia and ;ueers in the community" and specifically talking about race and class and gender
and ability and everything else. So that was probably one of the most fun conferences I&ve been to" and I might be a little biased" but we had some really great folks. We were getting a lot of undergraduate+level ;ueer folks of color from Hampshire and Southern 6alifornia. Nia: 'h" wow" I didn&t reali4e it was a national conference.
Lexi: 0mmhmm" and at one point it was international because we got some folks from 6anada so we count that. !t one point there was also a person from 7ermany. I don&t think they totally intended to come to the conference months in advance" but they were in town so we count that" too. It was really e3citing and it was really fun. So that was part of the work that I had done and I had also been involved in our 5eminism in !ction group on campus which was also housed through our Women and 7ender Studies department. (hat was fun because our leadership was all ;ueer women and mostly women of color. Nia: (hat&s awesome. (hat&s kind of not what I would e3pect from a #5eminism in !ction% group. Lexi: >ight$ I know the leaders of it now are two ;ueer women of color" so it&s really good and I think we laid a good foundation for years to come. So those were the main pieces of the work that I had done on campus as well as" it wasn&t something that completely gets recogni4ed" but *ust being a trans woman of color on campus and doing the organi4ing that I had done also played a key role in the creation of a ;ueer resource center on the campus. So that was another part of it. 'ur dean of students had chosen me as one of the recipients of the Social 9ustice !ward. It&s this gorgeous black frame that was created by some of our ceramics students or something" but it&s this gorgeous frame" and it&s up in my room. -eah" it was great" and I think the best part for me was because there was a little competition between me and some of the other nominees. (here was some drama with S5 State" as there is at every college campus" right$ I was up against one of those people that I really disliked. It was one of the best moments to be able to *ust go up and accept my award. Nia: It sounds like it would make a great movie.
Lexi: >ight$ I mean" yeah" that would be a good movie. !nd it was funny because I dressed like a ho that day" too. I was like" oh" it&s the dean of student awards. I was talking with my other leadership members of 5eminism in !ction and I was like" #0aybe we should all dress up<% I was like" #'h" we should all wear dresses.% She was like" #No" I don&t wear dresses.% I was like" #'kay" fine" we won&t wear dresses. I&m gonna wear fishnets and short shorts and my cut+up .'akland/ !&s t+shirt and we&ll *ust go like that.% 'riginally I had planned to change before the ceremony but I was like" #Whatever" we&re probably not gonna win. We&re too radical for this.% So I was in short shorts and fishnets and all of a sudden they&re calling my name and I&m like" oh
my 7od" what$ I ran up there and there&s this great picture of me beaming ne3t to our new president and he&s *ust like" #Ihhhh,% It was *ust" oh my 7od. Nia: =lease send me that picture.
Lexi: It was *ust a funny moment. -eah. I will. It was *ust one of those moments" like yes" this is the minute. Nia: So you were glad you made that wardrobe decision at that time$
Lexi: 'h" absolutely. I mean" I don&t regret it" that&s for sure. )ut everybody else was dressed up in bla4ers and pantsuits and everything else. Nia: So this is a big deal. =antsuits$
Lexi: I was like" oh" that&s funny. Nia: I didn&t think young people wore pantsuits.
Lexi: I know. I saw somebody in a pantsuit. It wasn&t the cutest but" yeah, It was interesting. Nia: So you received the award for your work with both Gueer -o& 0ind and also 5eminism in !ction" and those were sort of the two main activist pro*ects you were involved with on campus. !nd then the Gueer -o& 0ind 6onference was for two different years you did that$ Lexi: -eah. Nia: How long did it take to plan that conference$ How many months in advance were you working on it$ Lexi: I feel like the first one we took a year. We had taken a break I think for summer because originally coming up with the idea for the conference was part of a class I took that spring of my sophomore year. !nd so I was like" #'h" let&s *ust throw together a conference for !pril and it&s 5ebruary"% and I was like" #Whatever" I&ve done this before. It makes sense.% Nia: -ou&ve thrown together a conference in three months before$
Lexi: No" I haven&t thrown together a conference in three. I guess I might have but it was like where all I had to do was one thing out of the hundreds that are involved in organi4ing a conference. (hat was due to the work and commitment of a lot of great folks through our Gueer !lliance and Student Success program" they were a part of it. )ut also our counseling and psychological services and the different groups that are run through there" like Safe Space which is our Se3ual !ssault 5ree nvironment group. !nd so those folks dedicated a lot of time and some money and they were super responsible and I have to give a big shout out to them because I feel like sometimes I forget to. 5or helping make that happen. 5or helping make the first year happen.
!nd how big was the team of folks who were coordinating to put this together$
Lexi: (he first year it was about EF" maybe EH. We did have a separate team of volunteers which ended up being another EF or EH. !nd I feel like that year I had a really good volunteer coordinator so I didn&t have to be micro+managing everything. We had done a good *ob coming up with a schedule and things that should be happening. Nia: So they reported to you and then you were the H)I6.
Lexi: -eah. =retty much always how it goes. !lso our keynote was 0ia 0ingus who was ama4ing. I love her.J Nia: Is she local$
Lexi: She is local" yeah. I like to say we&re )55s. I say I&m )55s with everybody. 2ike after this I&ll say I&m )55s with Nia" and it&ll be great. )ut we&re )55s and so we had met at this workshop series" so I asked her to be the keynote for this" and it was phenomenal. She did an ama4ing talk on ;ueerness and disability *ustice and being a transracial K Nia: !doptee$
Lexi: !doptee" yeah. !nd transnational adoptee. !nd so that was phenomenal. Nia: Is there a recording of it anywhere$
Lexi: I don&t think so. I&d have to double check but I don&t think so. We weren&t as technologically capable at that point in time but after that first conference" I was totally ready to call it ;uits because putting together a conference was no easy task. It&s a lot to handle and a lot to organi4e and I was getting tired of the people I was working with. I don&t know if they were getting tired of me. I have short patience for certain types of people. )ut then my mentor and friend" who&s a black ;ueer woman who teaches at San 5rancisco State" totally talked me back into it. So" Gueer -o& 0ind always happens in the fall and so it had happened in" I want to say 'ctober of whatever year that was" like FCEE. I was totally ready to go into the summer thinking" oh" whatever" I don&t have to do this anymore. (hat&s fine. 'ne year" call it ;uits" it&s all good. !nd then my friend talked me back into it. So we spent the entire summer kind of constantly meeting with a smaller committee and getting a lot of admin stuff done and conducting outreach to you know" Stanford and )erkeley and local ;ueer groups and organi4ations. (hat was a lot to do. (hat was the summer that my mom passed away so it was cra4y to come back into school like" two weeks" maybe even a week after" and still be organi4ing a conference and be taking a full load. I think it&s something that I didn&t reallyKI don&t think I was fully aware of how much was going on in my life.
2ooking back on it" I definitely shouldn&t have done that much work. It was a little cra4y. So I wasn&t fully present with that process and I had a lot more folks involved who I wanted to be involved and who I wanted to work with. So I felt really bad because I wasn&t as present with that process. I think being able to hold myself accountable to the duties that were involved. (hat conference was the two+day conference and our keynotes ended up being !le3is 7umbs and ric Stanley. (hey&re both ama4ing and they&re also both phenomenal and so" yeah" I was *ust not completely present. (he spring semester was much simpler so I only took classes. Nia: -ou say #only took classes like%,<
Lexi: I know" as if it&s so easy" which it&s not.
Nia: #So" I only had the responsibilities that most other students have instead of all this other stuff on top of that.% Lexi: -eah" so I didn&t organi4e that semester. (hat was the conferences. and they were super fun" and I think that e3perience is always something I will rely on as I go forward. I have such an easier time with my upcoming pro*ects because of these e3periences that I had organi4ing Gueer -o& 0ind on campus. So it&s good. Nia: (hat was a really great transition to talking about your upcoming pro*ects" but there are so many things I still kind of want to ask you about Gueer -o& 0ind. I will ask you this one last ;uestion. I feel like it was an intentional choice to make it Gueer Yo’ 0ind. 6ould you talk a little bit about that$ Lexi: -eah" so at the time" a lot of people were pushing me to make it #-our 0ind% but I was like" we&re not that formal. We&re not being that formal and we&re not being that academic because our work isn&t reliant upon this white ;ueer theory and this white ;ueer studies that is so prominent that" you know" it&s important to keep it #-o.&% We didn&t have as much of a conversation or tools to think about the place of black ;ueer studies and I think blackness within our conference" but we were blessed to be able to have a really rich diversity of ;ueer people of color come and occupy space and talk about their ;ueerness and their ;ueer academic work. (hat is really important and really ama4ing. -eah" and so it was really intentional. I had this conversation with a person I was dating at the time" and they were like" if you changed it to #-our"% you would get so many more people. !nd I was like" but what would those people be like$ Who would those people be$ !re those people we even want to sit and have a conversation with$ I don&t think so. I&m glad we kept it as Gueer -o& 0ind. It&s gonna come back. I kind of handed it off to our Gueer >esource 6enter and they are planning for this upcoming fall. Nia: (hat&s awesome.
Lexi: Which is really awesome" yeah. Nia: Did you find on the day or the days of the conference that having that many ;ueer people of color on campus sort of changed the demographic or the feeling" or was it *ust like another day$ I don&t know how many ;ueer people of color are already going to S5 State and are out or whatever. Lexi: !t S5 State" maybe E@L to MCN of our ;ueer population might be ;ueer people of color. Nia: !nd how big is the ;ueer population compared to the student body$
Lexi: It&s not that big. It&s really small. It&s pretty much like if you know somebody then you can get an in to knowing everybody. I think there are definitely isolated cases of people who *ust don&t want in to the campus community" per se. )ut the day of the conference was I thought more fun *ust because, and I felt more at home. I think" and maybe not because they were e3clusively like G='6 but also because they were like G='6 academics. Having that kind of academic community that also was looking at research and looking at pro*ects they were working on and papers they were writing. (alking about ;ueer theory and all these other academic sub*ects that we had studied together. I think that&s what gave me more of a home" because I don&t have that conversation with a lot of our ;ueer community on campus" because we&re all there for different reasons" right$ So yeah. Nia: So you mentioned ;ueer theory a couple times. I guess I&m interested in what appeals to you about doing activism within the academy" because you&ve done organi4ing" but you&re also creating a body of academic work and research that is centered on trans women of color" which feels inherently political. Lexi: -eah" yeah. So it definitely is inherently political and I guess I&m not sure" and I think I have a lot of my ownKI guess you could call it concerns. Nia: It sounds like you have a little bit of a love@hate relationship with the academy. Is that fair to say$ Lexi: I absolutely do. (he academy is kind of a mess. It&s hard to succeed already as a trans woman of color *ust getting my )achelor&s" so I&m very wary of having K Nia: Did you go straight through your undergrad$
Lexi: I was done in M.H years mostly because of the stuff that came up with my mom. )ut yeah" that&s a lot sooner than most people at San 5rancisco State. Nia: -eah. I feel like ;ueer and trans people of color in particular generally do not finish in four years because they have so much other bullshit they have to deal with besides *ust getting grades.
Lexi: !bsolutely" and there&s a very small amount of fellow trans women of color that I even see pursuing 0aster&s programs and even a smaller amount pursuing =hDs" especially in something like sociology or women&s studies or ethnic studies. (hat&s obviously something I think about a lot" because I don&t know whether it&s a glass ceiling or a concrete ceiling or whatever. It&s been lonely to go through that on my own and not really have that similar community as I would have in organi4ations" accessing services in a sense" as I would being in a classroom. So that&s something that I&m very conscious of: who takes up space in the academy and who gets prioriti4ed. 0aybe I will be one of the first to get my =hD. I&m sure there are others out there that I haven&t heard of" but it&s definitely something that I&m conscious of. I love my academic work and I love being able to do this academic work but it&s a *ourney and it does have a toll with it. Nia: -eah. (ell me about your upcoming pro*ects. -ou&re working on some really e3citing stuff right now. Lexi: I am. So I&m part of a group with four other ama4ing trans women of color organi4ing the first Network 7athering of (rans Women of color at the !llied 0edia 6onference this coming year. Nia: !nd that&s international" right$
Lexi: -eah" so our network gathering is international. So two of our organi4ers are located in 6anada" but we&re also trying to be very intentional about reaching out to trans women of color in other communities" so that&s going to be a big chunk of our process" as well and really fundraising to get as many trans women of color as possible there. -eah" it&s kind of historic. It&s like the first ever and it&s really e3citing. We&ll be launching our call for participation which involves looking for workshop leaders and facilitators" because the !06 is basically giving us a whole day before the actual conference starts to have our network gathering. (hat includes space and stuff and so we have eight hours to schedule the first trans women of color network gathering and we have to figure out what we&re going to do and what we want to spend that time doing. )ut that also involves allowing the community to shape that space and figure out what they want that space to be for. -eah" that&s one of my upcoming pro*ects. I guess I&m polishing up some of my papers" which are also available on le3iadsit.wordpres.com. I&m going to be submitting some of those. 0y goal is to have at least one academic *ournal done in the spring" and so hopefully I will be getting published very soon. Nia: !wesome. (hat&s really e3citing.
Lexi: (hank you. Nia: !nd is your Word=ress the best place for people to go if they want to learn more about you and your work$
Lexi: -eah. !nd all my handles are Osistahmama;ueen" so that includes (umblr" (witter" Instagram. (hose are all the big ones. -eah" so you can absolutely find me there" too. Nia: 'kay" awesome. !nything else you want to plug or final thoughts before we wrap$ What do you want people to most know about you and your work$ No pressure< Lexi: I guess that we trans women of color are taking over the world. -eah" I think that&s about it. Nia: 'kay" awesome. (hanks so much for coming over and having this conversation. !nd I also wanted to thank you for all the support that you&ve given for my Indiegogo campaign. It will be over by the time people are listening to this" but you&ve been super instrumental in helping get the word out and I really appreciate that. Lexi: (hank you. I think your work is phenomenal and ama4ing" and so I am *ust honored to be here and I wanted to make sure that, I like to tell all my friends that when you&re my friend" I take care of my own. !nd so" I wanted to help promote that as much as possible. Nia: !www" shucks<
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