Transcript of the Testimony of Gary Shaw

Date: November 7, 2013 Volume: I Case: In Re: Joplin Critical Investigation

Printed On: November 13, 2013

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Gary Shaw

In Re:

Joplin Critical Investigation

Page 1

IN RE:

JOPLIN CRITICAL INVESTIGATION

SWORN STATEMENT OF

GARY SHAW

Taken on Thursday, November 7, 2013, from 10:15 a.m. to

10:34

a.m., at the law offices of Juddson H. McPherson, LLC, 626 S. Byers, in the City of Joplin, County of Jasper, State of Missouri, before SHARON K. ROGERS, C.C.R.650, a Certified Court Reporter and a Notary Public within and for the County of Jasper, and State of Missouri.

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In Re: Gary Shaw

Joplin Critical Investigation

Page 2

APPEARANCES

MR. THOMAS E. LORAINE Loraine & Associates, LLC 4075 Osage Beach Pkwy., Suite 300 Osage Beach, MO 65065

tellaw@loraineandassociates.com

Holliday Reporting Service, Inc. 417-358-4078

Gary Shaw

In Re:

Joplin Critical Investigation

Page 3

S T I P U L A T I O N

IT IS HEREBY STIPULATED that this Sworn Statement may be taken by steno-mask type recording by SHARON K. ROGERS, a Certified Court Reporter, and afterwards reduced into typewriting. It is further stipulated that the signature of the witness is hereby waived, and that said Sworn Statement of said witness shall be of the same force and effect as though said witness had read and signed Sworn Statement.

Holliday Reporting Service, Inc. 417-358-4078

Gary Shaw

In Re:

Joplin Critical Investigation

Page 4 I N D E X Page/Line DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. LORAINE . . . 5-4

E X H I B I T S

Exhibit #A.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

6-6

Advice of Rights

Note:

Exhibits in separate binder

(sic) - typed as spoken (ph.) - phonetic

Holliday Reporting Service, Inc. 417-358-4078

Gary Shaw

In Re:

Joplin Critical Investigation

Page 5 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Q. A. A. GARY SHAW Having been first duly sworn and examined, testified as follows: DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. LORAINE: A. Q. Boy, I didn't realize it was that involved. Yeah, I've been doing this probably, I've been doing a lot of this the last ten years and it's not fun, but it's a necessary job, I mean I can tell you. I'll make my statement and then I'll shut up. When I was Mayor we went through a deal where we had to deal with an ethics violation and I had to let one of the guys - and he was a former Mayor. Nice guy probably? He was. He just didn't realize there's some

duties that you can do as a Council person, certain that you can't. very helpful in that. It's a necessary task because unfortunately people do get out of line, and the real problem with it is there's really so much to be aware of these days and the pay is so great, you know. Didn't put me in another bracket by any Judge Curchin was

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Gary Shaw

In Re:

Joplin Critical Investigation

Page 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. means. Yeah. Shaw? Just Gary is fine. Okay. Gary, I have just given you the Advice You've read that Should I refer to you as Councilman

of Rights Form, Exhibit #A. and do you understand it? I believe I do.

So basically you're going to tell me the truth, all the truth, and nothing but the truth? Try my best to do that. And I've witnessed your signature and we'll mark that as Exhibit #A, is that okay? That's fine. As I understand it you're a former Mayor of the City? That's correct. And present Councilman? That's correct. The Mayorship revolves among the people that are on the Council to elect the Mayor? Exactly. So any one of you guys could kind of as you put it recycle?

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Gary Shaw

In Re:

Joplin Critical Investigation

Page 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Right. That's true.

You know that I've been hired, you're aware of my contract and what I'm doing here? Yes, sir, I am. And specifically I was asked to look at three major areas. Under my contract I was asked

to look at Mayor Pro Tem Scearce's involvement with bookmaking, the leasing of the building, et cetera and so forth; facts and circumstances surrounding the staff I guess of the handwritten note off of Manager Rohr's desk; and I'm asked to inquire as to Council member Woolston and Charlie Kuehn and Four State Homes and all its subsidiaries, and Wallace-Bajjali, all those issues for the sale and leasing of real estate for future development. That's true. In regards to number one it has come to my attention in talking with Lane Roberts, the Police Chief, that before you became Mayor he had a meeting with you and Mark Rohr, I think, concerning the history of Scearce's involvement with bookmaking. Well, not before I became Mayor. When I was

Holliday Reporting Service, Inc. 417-358-4078

Gary Shaw

In Re:

Joplin Critical Investigation

Page 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Mayor. When you were Mayor. He actually made some

statements to you, Lane Roberts? I can't actually recall exactly how that transpired, but I was made aware when I was Mayor that the FBI was doing an investigation into some gambling going on in our city and Mr. Scearce was one of them that they were looking at. I don't remember the exact

details of how that transpired. But that's about all you were told? Yes, exactly. Subject to that? Yes, that was exactly. Did they tell you that he was not indicted? Oh, yes. And he has not been indicted? That's correct. And this is a twenty year old matter? Yes. So I have been doing that investigation, Police Chief Roberts told me just exactly what he told you, nothing more? That's right. Huh? That's true.

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Gary Shaw

In Re:

Joplin Critical Investigation

Page 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. A. Q. That's true. And he didn't tell me anything more than that. Okay. you? I'm telling you what he told me and what he told you are the same things? Yes. That's basically what the note says. you seen the note, the famous note? No, no. Here is the famous note marked Exhibit #1. You're one of my bosses, you ought to be able to know this stuff. Nothing very important on there. I don't see anything extremely important to me anyway. Got the names on there. Right. You see the editor's name, Stark? Uh-huh. You see the guy that went to prison's name, Lovett. Lovett, I remember that. Globe. Read that in the Have Are you talking about what he told

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Gary Shaw

In Re:

Joplin Critical Investigation

Page 10 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. You see some kind of contributing to a criminal investigation or something like that? Yeah, I don't know. I just know of the name

that I've heard from the Globe. And you see the date, 8/12/13? Yes, I do. All right. This is the note that was

allegedly stolen from -Mr. Rohr's desk. Rohr's desk. That's number two that I'm

supposed to investigate. I understand it was a little note. A little note, it's been blown up so we could try to read it. Right. I have gone over this with Mr. Rohr. He has

identified this is his handwriting, this is the note. Okay. There's not much on here except the editor's name and helpful and contributing to a continuing criminal - I guess what I'm telling you is this is all there is. all there is? This is it. Is that

Holliday Reporting Service, Inc. 417-358-4078

Gary Shaw

In Re:

Joplin Critical Investigation

Page 11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. A. Q. As far as I know that's all there is. I'm not particularly persuaded by this, are you? No, Mr. Rohr is one that in when dealing with him he makes notes and he has his notes available. I mean when we have briefings he

has a list and he has notes. I do the same thing. Only I try to make them in a more - you know, you can lose these things easily. Yeah. Suffice it to say that I want to make sure you're aware there was important information allegedly stolen and that it is. Okay. Chief Lane Roberts hasn't explained anything more to me. I guess he hasn't explained

anything more to anybody. No, he hasn't. Not to me anyway.

There is nothing else to explain apparently, and I'm not going to get that FBI report nor is anybody else. Mr. Scearce. It's not. Centered around a lot of other people that It's not centered around

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Gary Shaw

In Re:

Joplin Critical Investigation

Page 12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. A. Q. have got nothing to do with it. This guy was

questioned because he rented something. Yeah. Do you know anything more about that so I can go forward? As far as his association with gambling and that type of thing? Yes. I've known Bill for a number of years, you know, off and on. We've never been what you I knew

would call social buddies and all.

him vaguely when he worked for the City. What did he do for the City? He was in the Parks and Recreation Department, my understanding. Did you ever work for the City? No, other than do Council. Of course I was

on Zoning and Planning and Historic Preservation. You've been on the Council how long? This is my twelfth year. Okay. The next issue that I wanted to deal

with you because I was told that you were briefed on this gambling and I wanted to know if they told you anymore than they told me?

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Gary Shaw

In Re:

Joplin Critical Investigation

Page 13 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. No. So apparently not? No, it was just because he was a Council person and I was the Mayor at the time and the fact that something could come out of that investigation that might involve him that the City Manager and the Police Chief informed me it wasn't in the form of gossip or anything, it was just in the form of telling me what they knew so that I could be prepared if anything came out of it. Nothing

ever came out of it as far as when I was Mayor. No indictments, nothing else? No. Wallace-Bajjali, is there anything that you have, any fact or circumstance surrounding Council member Woolston's I guess relationship with Charlie Kuehn or Four State Homes, anything you know about that? The only thing that I know, of course I've known Mike. Mike and I have been on the Council for about the same number of years. I knew Mike's father before I knew Mike actually.

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Gary Shaw

In Re:

Joplin Critical Investigation

Page 14 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. What did Mike's father do? Mike's father had a car lot, a used car lot, nice guy. In fact, he took a set of Titlist set of golf clubs in on a car and I bought the golf clubs. I haven't played in six But

years, but I bought them from Dale.

actually my knowledge of Mike has just been since he's gotten on Council. I did ask, you

know, being 72 years old and being on the Council now for my twelfth year there are people in town that ask me, you know, what I think of this person and what I think of that person. When this information came out in

the meeting, which again I think sometimes we act like children rather than adults when we start accusing one another, the accusation or the inquiry that Dr. Rosenberg wanted to make with Mr. Woolston came out and became knowledge to the paper I had people call me and wanted to know what I know about it. I did, I went to Mike and I said, Mike, is there anything that you've done that's questionable or that's out of line because people are asking me about whether they should support you or not, and I said I just So

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Gary Shaw

In Re:

Joplin Critical Investigation

Page 15 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. need an answer from you, is there anything you've done? not. And he said, no, Gary, there's

So that's the only discussion I've had

along those lines. Have you had the same discussion basically with Scearce? I never did ask Bill. I never did ask Bill. I deal with

Bill is a different personality.

people, I'm a church administrator by trade, and I deal with a lot of people. kind of a little bulldog. Bill is

I get aggravated

with him sometimes because he doesn't see anybody else's point of view but his own, but still he has a good heart. I see some of the In fact,

things he's done for other people.

to my surprise a year or two ago when his stepfather-in-law passed away they brought him back here from Florida and Bill asked me to do the graveside for him, which I did. I mean other than on the Council that's the only interaction I've had with Bill. We So

don't eat out together, that type of thing, it's just mainly professional through the Council. What do you know about City Manager - what's

Holliday Reporting Service, Inc. 417-358-4078

Gary Shaw

In Re:

Joplin Critical Investigation

Page 16 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. A. your relationship with the City Manager? Well, I think he's done an outstanding job for us and I'll be honest with you I have maybe a closer relationship than a lot of people. What is that relationship? Pardon me? What is that relationship? That relationship is he's a member of our church. That relationship is that several That

years ago I married him to his wife.

relationship is that when children are born I go to the hospital and see them, but other than that we don't - I think that over the years that Mark has been here his wife and my wife and I and the two of us had dinner maybe once or twice together. Mark and I have gone I have a

to lunch once or twice together.

great deal of respect for Mark and I've let it be known publicly. My understanding is you're basically the pastor of his church? I'm the church administrator. pastor. We have a

There are actually eight of us that

are considered pastors of the church.

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Gary Shaw

In Re:

Joplin Critical Investigation

Page 17 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. So you're kind of like a council or something? Yeah. What church is that? Central Christian Center. address is 410 Virginia. Do you feel that relationship, have you ever felt that relationship requires you to when he's questioned about his involvements do you believe you should refrain or abstain because of your knowledge of his -I haven't gotten into any situation where I felt that our relationship as pastor and church was a conflict, no. If it would I The mailing

certainly would try to be knowledgeable of that. I told you I'm not a real sociable In other words I love people

type person.

and we do a lot of things, but at this point in my life by the time I start working at - I get up at 5:30 in the morning. When the

evening comes I'm ready to go home and put my feet up and enjoy the dog and my wife, you know, so I don't do a lot of other things. But, no, to this point have I stood up for Mark in some situations? Yes, because I

Holliday Reporting Service, Inc. 417-358-4078

Gary Shaw

In Re:

Joplin Critical Investigation

Page 18 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. thought he was right. friendship. So essentially anything else I can glean from you as to anybody you would refer me to to further my investigation, any names that you can give me that you would be interested in me talking to these people to acquire additional information? Concerning any of the three issues? Any. You know, really I don't think so. I think Not because of our

you probably have as much knowledge on them as I. I have a tendency to be the type that

does the job that I'm asked to do and was elected to do and I let people take care of their own lives and I take care of my own life. If I'm asked to be involved I am, and if I don't I don't normally stick my nose in where it's not supposed to be. I mean you would be disappointed in me if I didn't follow any potential lead and that's what I'm here for? Absolutely, yeah. If I thought that I had

information that needed to - I don't go looking for things like that, but certainly

Holliday Reporting Service, Inc. 417-358-4078

Gary Shaw

In Re:

Joplin Critical Investigation

Page 19 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. if they come to my knowledge I would be more than happy to whether it had to do with Mark or Bill or Mike, either one, any of the three, but I really don't have. I think you

probably with the information is given you you probably know as much about most of it as I do. I'm starting to acquire a good deal of information about your city. Well, it's a great place. it. I'm very proud of

I have traveled in the past to thirty

countries in the world as part of my job years ago with another organization and to say that you love an area people think it's a little old and corny, but I do. why I'm on the Council. And that's

It's not because I

feel like I know more than anybody else, I just want to give back. Other men and women

have volunteered to serve, that's why our city has been what it is, and it's a great time to be a part of it. I think it is. good Council. divided, but -I think you've got a pretty Right now I know it's somewhat

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Gary Shaw

In Re:

Joplin Critical Investigation

Page 20 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. Q. A. A. Well, it is, and from that perspective I think that there's been a little alignment going on, you know. Posturing. Posturing, exactly. that. And I don't approve of

When I got on the Zoning and Planning

was the first one where you were put in a position to make decisions that affected citizens and everything. I was instructed

that you would be given information and you would go and look at the property that you were going to be zoning and that type of thing, but that all your decisions both in the Zoning and Planning and Council you're like a judge. That you made the decisions in

the presence of and based on the materials that were brought before you. to operate that way. That's what I'm trying to do. I understand that very much. And it's a tough situation to be in, but I do want to - I have been in this for a number of years trying to get to these kinds of things and I have acquired certain expertise in trying to get there. So I've tried

Holliday Reporting Service, Inc. 417-358-4078

Gary Shaw

In Re:

Joplin Critical Investigation

Page 21 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. A. Q. Absolutely. And I will be making some recommendations to you all, but I would be remiss if I didn't pursue absolutely everything. I understand that. And, you know, if there's

anything that - again I have a tendency to deal with things that need to be dealt with and then move on and if there's things that come up that you'd like to ask me about I'm free any time to answer anything that you want to ask me. I'm going to give you one of my cards and if something does come up to your attention that we have not talked about that you think, hey, Mr. Loraine is not doing his job unless he looks at one more issue please feel free to call me. Oh, I will. Okay? I'll do it. Thank you, Mayor. Anybody that ever gets to

that position has my admiration because it is a tough job to get there and a Councilman is a tough job. Well, really our Mayors are not like a lot.

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Gary Shaw

In Re:

Joplin Critical Investigation

Page 22 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. Q. A. There's some of them that do a little politicking to get where they were. If that

was any indication in my case I wouldn't have done it because I don't do that. sorry, I don't. I'm just

That's not my personality.

But I had a young engineer with MoDot ask me one time we were at a Life Choices banquet and he was impressed to be with the former Mayor, but that doesn't really mean anything to me other than he asked me, he said, what was your most favorite thing about being Mayor, and I kind of blew him away when I said going to the schools and reading books to the kids and being involved in their lives because it meant something to them for the Mayor to come to their school. Sure does, yes. And that's what my whole life I've been involved in. I've been blessed by the people

and I just want to try to help people. Thank you for your time. Nice to meet you. My pleasure, sir. coming in here. I really do appreciate you

Holliday Reporting Service, Inc. 417-358-4078

Gary Shaw

In Re:

Joplin Critical Investigation

Page 23 1 2 3 4 (SWORN STATEMENT CONCLUDED)

Holliday Reporting Service, Inc. 417-358-4078

Gary Shaw

In Re:

Joplin Critical Investigation

Page 24

REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE

STATE OF MISSOURI ss. COUNTY OF JASPER I, SHARON K. ROGERS, Certified Court Reporter in the State of Missouri, do certify that pursuant to the foregoing Stipulation the witness came before me on the 7th day of November, 2013, was duly sworn by me, and was examined. That examination was then taken by me by

steno-mask recording and afterwards transcribed; said Sworn Statement is subscribed by the witness as hereinbefore set out on the day in that behalf aforesaid and is herewith returned. I further certify that I am not counsel, attorney, or relative of either party, or clerk, or stenographer of either party or of the attorney of either party, or otherwise interested in the event of this suit.

_________________________ SHARON K. ROGERS, CCR-650

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