razgovarali interviewed by

fotograje photographs by

Vera Grimmer

Tadej Glaar

Ana Dana Bero

portreti portraits

Atelier Peter Zumthor & Partner (APZ) Hlne Binet (HB) ljubaznou / Courtesy of Verlag Scheidegger & Spiess, Zrich Damir Fabijani (DF), Thomas Flechtner (TF) Jiri Havran (JH), Walter Herfst (WH) Urszula Kijek & Ziemowit Maj (UKZM) Walter Mair (WM), Margherita Spiluttini (ms) Klemens Grund

Prostori puni emocija to je ono o emu sanjam

Mi dolazimo iz prirode i u nju se vraamo...Vidim veliki ciklus iji sam dio. Nisam postojao prije svog vremena i neu vie postojati poslije svog vremena. Ali u svoje vrijeme pripadam ivotnom procesu na ovome planetu; kratko sam vrijeme dio organizma ljudskih bia, ivotinja i biljaka koje egzistira na ovome planetu i daje mu ivot. (Peter Zumthor, Hortus Consclusus, 2011.) Isto tako kao to razmilja o svojem ivotu, Peter Zumthor razmilja o svom radu jer za njega je to jedno te isto. Empatija u odnosu na mjesto, ljude, okoli, povijest, u osnovi je njegovih majstorskih djela raenih po mjeri, kako to kae njihov autor, koji je ve kao djeak upoznao kulturu izrade valjanih i postojanih stvari.

Spaces Full of Emotion That is What I Dream of

We come from nature and we return to nature... I see a great cycle and I am part of it. I did not exist before my time and I will no longer exist after my time. But in my time, I belong to the process of life on this planet; for a little while I am part of the organism of human beings, animals and plants that exist on this planet and that passes life on. (Peter Zumthor, Hortus Conclusus, 2011.) In the same manner he contemplates life Peter Zumthor contemplates his work because for him, it is one and the same. Empathy in relation to places, people, environment, history is contained in the essence of his customized masterpieces, as their author says himself. Even as a boy, he was introduced to the culture of creating worthy and durable things.
Razgovarali u Haldensteinu 23. rujna 2011. Interviewed in Haldenstein, 23 September 2011

Peter Zumthor

Peter Zumthor

oris, number 73, year 2012

Peter Zumthor, Intervju

Peter Zumthor, Interview

Paviljon Serpentine Gallery, London, Engleska, 2011. Serpentine Gallery Pavilion, London, England, 2011 (WH)

OrisPodsjetila bih na pojmove koje spominjete u svom tekstu u knjizi Huser iz 1997. godine. Pojmove kao mjesto, materijal, prisutnost, pamenje, sjeanje, slika, ugoaj, zgusnutost, koncentracija, trajanje naveli ste kao bitne za va rad. Danas, nakon 14 godina ti pojmovi imaju isti sjaj i znaenje koje su i tada posjedovali. Peter ZumthorSlaem se, no uvijek opet razmiljam s pozicija novog vremena. ivot se mijenja, takoer i razmiljanje. Ne mislim da je spomenuto pogreno, ali uvijek mogu dati samo konkretne odgovore, ne apstraktne, uvijek u konkretnom sklopu.
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OrisI would like to remind you of terms mentioned in your text in the book Huser from 1997. You listed terms like place, material, presence, remembering, memory, image, atmosphere, density, concentration, duration as important for your work. Today, after fourteen years, these terms have the same sparkle and meaning they possessed in the past. Peter ZumthorI agree. Nevertheless, I think over and again from the position of a new time. Life changes and thinking as well. I do not think that the terms mentioned are wrong, but I can always provide merely concrete answers, not abstract ones, always in a concrete context. OrisIn other words the idea is in things. Peter ZumthorYes, I think you could say that, mostly. OrisThe term place is mentioned first. Do you think that some architecture can be successful and appropriate if it can be placed anywhere. For example, I would like to compare two stadiums. The Allianz Arena in Munich can be placed anywhere and nowhere, while the stadium by Sotto de Moura in Braga can be placed there and only there. You expressed the specific relation of your work to a place with following words: I would like to contribute to the richness of atmosphere in a place with my work. Can architecture without such a close relation to a specific place be sound? Peter ZumthorTwo paths are always possible; it is possible to react to a place, but there is also typological architecture. The same type can reappear in another place, but the building type then again reacts to a specic place. In the history of architecture there have always been both architecture that develops a relation to a place and typological architecture. Personally, I mostly prefer topological architecture, this seems to be the right path to me, but actually I can imagine different architecture as well. OrisWherever people have the possibility to survive and can make a home? Peter ZumthorYes, for example, nomadic architecture of tents also exists. I do not say that only topological architecture is good; it all depends on culture and function. I personally would not feel good in a tent; nevertheless, I can imagine a culture in which people would not feel good if they were always in the same place. OrisAnd another question the question of form. Hans Hollein once said that form is important and significant, and everything else results from a creative form developed by an architect. Peter ZumthorTo tell the truth, I do not start from the form, but from other things; however, I create the form eventually I have to create the form and then control it. OrisDo you not have aspirations for an arbitrary gesture? Peter ZumthorI also need intuition; I dont think one
oris, number 73, year 2012 Peter Zumthor, Intervju Peter Zumthor, Interview (UKZM) 9

Poljska kapela Bruder Klaus, Wachendorf, Njemaka, 2007. Bruder Klaus Field Chapel, Wachendorf, Germany, 2007 (WM)

OrisZnai ideja je u stvarima. Peter ZumthorDa, mislim da se to moe tako kazati, uglavnom. OrisKao prvi je naveden pojam mjesto, mislite li da neka arhitektura moe biti uspjena i prikladna ako se moe nalaziti bilo gdje. Kao primjer bih usporedila dva stadiona. Allianz Arena u Mnchenu moe stajati svagdje i nigdje, dok se stadion arhitekta Sotto de Moure u Bragi moe nalaziti ta mo i samo tamo. Osebujan odnos svojeg rada prema mjestu izrazili ste rijeima: elio bih svojim djelom doprinijeti bo gatstvu atmosfere nekog mjesta. Moe li arhitektura koja nema takav vrsti odnos prema nekom specinom mjestu biti postojana? Peter ZumthorUvijek postoje dva mogua puta, mogue je reagirati na mjesto, ali postoji i tipoloka arhitektura. Isti tip moe se opet pojaviti na nekom drugom mjestu, ali graevni tip onda opet reagira na specino mjesto. U povijesti arhitekture su uvijek postojale i arhitektura koja razvija odnos prema mjestu i tipoloka arhitektura. Osobno
oris, broj 73, godina 2012

should contemplate forever. Nevertheless, Hollein talks about the same thing that I do. I talk about the form in the end, but I can understand that, for him, the form is in the rst place. I think it is not very important how an architect talks, but it is important what he or she builds. OrisYou do not give interviews very often. Is this because of your opinion that architecture should be experienced, and not so much talked about? Peter ZumthorI give enough interviews, but I try to nd a normal measure. I primarily work, but I also gladly talk about my work. Nonetheless, I cannot always talk about my work therefore I cannot accept every interview. This is not about ideology, its about my concentration on work. OrisLet us go back to the theme of topological architecture, specifically to the Serpentine Gallery Pavilion in London. You said in one interview: I am a passionate architect, I love projects into which I can put my heart. Can you explain how
oris, number 73, year 2012

uglavnom preferiram topoloku arhitekturu, to mi se ini pravim putom, ali zapravo mogu zamisliti i drugaiju arhitekturu. OrisSvuda gdje ljudi imaju mogunost egzistencije, mogu se udomiti? Peter ZumthorDa, na primjer postoji i nomadska arhitektura atora. Ne kaem da je samo topoloka arhitektura dobra, sve to ovisi i o kulturi i o funkciji. Osobno se ne bih dobro osjeao u atoru, no mogu zamisliti kulturu gdje se ljudi ne bi osjeali dobro da su uvijek na istom mjestu. OrisJedno drugo pitanje pitanje forme. Hans Hollein je jednom prilikom rekao da je upravo forma vana i bitna, a sve drugo proizlazi iz kreativne forme koju je razvio arhitekt. Peter ZumthorDakle ja ne polazim od forme, ve od drugih stvari, ali na kraju moram napraviti formu pa je zatim kontrolirati itd. OrisNe teite za svojevoljnom gestom? Peter ZumthorPotrebna mi je takoer i intuicija, ne mislim da tre ba promiljati u nedogled. Ipak Hollein govori o istome kao i ja. Ja govorim o formi na kraju, ali mogu razumjeti da je za njega forma na prvom mjestu. Mislim da ne igra vanu ulogu kako arhitekt govori, bitno je to to gradi. OrisNe dajete esto intervjue, je li to zbog vaeg stava da arhitekturu treba doivjeti, a manje o njoj govoriti? Peter ZumthorDajem dovoljno intervjua, ali nastojim nai neku normalnu mjeru. U prvom redu radim, ali rado i govorim o svom radu. No, ne mogu uvijek govoriti o svom radu, pa zato i ne mogu prihvatiti svaki intervju. Nije rije o ideologiji, ve o mojoj koncentraciji na rad. OrisVratimo se na temu topoloke arhitekture, konkretno na paviljon Serpentine Gallery u Londonu. U jednom ste intervjuu rekli: Ja sam strastveni arhitekt, volim projekte u koje mogu unijeti svoje srce. Moete li objasniti kako je bilo upleteno Vae srce u tom vrlo konkretnom sluaju u Londonu? Peter ZumthorDa, tamo je mnogo toga vezano uz vrt, uz krajolik. Vrt i krajolik me ve dugo i sve vie zaokupljaju. Bilo je lijepo vidjeti to se dogaa kada u sreditu nije ovjek, nego je u centru vrt oko kojeg se ljudi okupljaju. Dakle sredina nije tu za ljude nego za vrt. Situacija je drugaija nego kada kroz vrt moete prolaziti jer tamo to nije mogue. Tamo se ljudi okupljaju oko biljaka koje su u sreditu. U cjelini parka vrt funkcionira kao povealo, tu nalazimo, primjerice, velike ljiljane. Kroz jednu tamnu zonu dolazi se u vrt, gdje se mogu promatrati pojedinane biljke, vidi se detalj. Tu priroda ima drugaije mjerilo. OrisTu se tematski pojavljuje hortus conclusus, to je na neki nain sluaj i kod Muzeja Kolumba. Tamo je vrt svoje vrsni ltar koji zgradu titi od banalne okoline. Peter ZumthorTamo je bilo vano da zgrada dobije stranje
Peter Zumthor, Intervju

your heart was involved in this very concrete case in London? Peter ZumthorYes, many things are related to gardens there, to landscape. Gardens and landscape have been more and more of an interest of mine for quite a long time now. It was nice to see what was going on when people were not in the centre, but a garden, with people gathered around it. Therefore the centre here is not for people, but for the garden. The situation is different than when you can pass through a garden. It is not

Poljska kapela Bruder Klaus, Wachendorf, Njemaka, 2007. Bruder Klaus Field Chapel, Wachendorf, Germany, 2007 (WM)

possible to walk through the garden here. This here works in such a way that people gather around plants that are in the centre. In the entirety of the park, the garden functions as a magnier; here, we nd large lilies for example. The garden is accessed through a dark zone, individual plants can be seen, and details are visible. Nature has a different measure here. Oris Hortus conclusus appears here thematically, which is in a way also the case with the Kolumba museum. There, the garden is a kind of filter that protects the building from banal surroundings. Peter ZumthorIt was important there that the building got a backyard which offered a certain intimacy, like a small monastery garden. This is excellent for that museum to have this intimate zone opened. It is less a matter of protection from banality, but more of the possibility to go out into this open intimate space. OrisPositioning is also a theme. For example, William Curtis writes that there is intuitive positioning in your work,
Peter Zumthor, Interview 11

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dvorite, koje poput maloga samostanskog vrta prua odreenu intimnost. To je sjajno za taj muzej, da se otvara ta intimna zona. Manje je rije o zatiti od banalnosti, a vie o mogunosti izlaska u taj otvoreni intimni prostor. OrisPozicioniranje je takoer tema. Primjerice, William Curtis napisao je da vi na intuitivni nain pozicionirate svoje graevine, odnosno da postavljate zgrade kao objekte u krajo lik. U tom smislu prisjetila sam se razgovora s Adamom Carusom, koji je izrazio svoju fasciniranost kapelom Bruder Klaus, odnosno time da kapela izdaleka djeluje znatno vea
Kua i atelijer Zumthor, Haldenstein, vicarska, 2005. Zumthor house and atelier, Haldenstein, Switzerland, 2005 (DF)

placing a building into a landscape as an object. In this sense, a conversation with Adam Caruso crosses my mind: he expressed his fascination with the Bruder Klaus chapel, namely with the fact that the chapel looks significantly bigger from a distance than from close by. It is not entirely rational that such wondrous effects can be achieved with one building. How does one achieve this? What would be the relation to an object and what to a place? Do you establish what is characteristic for a place and then observe in what manner to approach it with your object? Or, do you perhaps look for the

Kua i atelijer Zumthor, Haldenstein, vicarska, 2005. Zumthor house and atelier, Haldenstein, Switzerland, 2005 (DF)

nego izbliza. Nije posve racionalno da se jednom zgradom mogu postii tako zaudni efekti. Kako se to postie? Kakav je odnos prema objektu, a kakav prema mjestu? Utvrujete li to je za mjesto karakteristino, pa onda gledate kako ete mu se pribliiti svojim objektom? Ili moda traite upravo kontrast? Peter ZumthorZapravo je to jedan klasian primjer. Tamo je otvoreni krajolik u kojem nadaleko stoji samo jedna graevina kapela. Kod starih dvoraca u planinama imamo osjeaj da se nalaze ba na pravom mjestu. U odnosu na jednu izgraenu poziciju tamo je neto lijevo ili desno, straga ili sprijeda, istono ili zapadno. Kao kod Heideggera
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contrast? Peter ZumthorActually this is one classic example. There is this open landscape there and merely one building, the chapel, is alone with nothing around. When an old castle in the mountains is concerned, one has a feeling that it is in exactly the right place. In relation to a built position, there is something on the left or on the right, behind or in front, to the east or to the west. Like with Heidegger, when he writes about the bridge: suddenly there is something above the bridge, under the bridge, etc. Focusing on an object is so strong that it becomes huge; it is given enormous meaning because it is the only building with architectural form. It
oris, number 73, year 2012

kad pie o mostu: odjednom je neto iznad mosta, ispod is elevated in an architectural sense. Such buildings have a mosta itd. Fokusiranje na objekt je tako snano da postaje tendency to be large, but there is also the opposite situation. golem, dobiva ogromno znaenje, jer je jedini objekt koji When we see big hotel palaces in the mountains, they actually ima arhitektonsku formu. Izdie se u arhitektonskom smislu. look as if they are small. We sense the dimension of the Alps Takvi objekti imaju tendenciju da budu veliki, no postoji i if there is a big object there. obratna situacija. Kad vidimo velike hotelske palae u pla- OrisWhat does monumentality mean to you today? Is ninama, izgledaju zapravo kao da su male. Osjeamo dimen- classic monumentality still interesting or can we talk about ziju Alpa ako se tamo nalazi veliki objekt. a differentiated monumentality? Peter ZumthorThere Oristo danas za vas znai monumentalnost? Je li kla- is more than one denition of monumentality. In the sense sina monumentalnost jo zanimljiva ili se moe govoriti o too big it is not good. When non-experts talk about monudiferenciranoj monumentalnosti? Peter ZumthorIma mentality, they think of too big. A monument is good in a city,
Peter Zumthor, Intervju Peter Zumthor, Interview 13

vie denicija monumentalnosti. Ako se odnosi na neto pre veliko, to nije dobro. Kad nestrunjaci govore o monumentalnosti, misle na preveliko. U gradu je monument, tj. spomenik u redu, dobar spomenik nije prevelik, crkva nije prevelika, a u pravilu ni vijenica nije prevelika. Drugim rijeima, ako neki spomenik ima svoje znaenje i smisao, to je dobro jer zrcali drutvenu zajednicu, grad, odnosno krajolik. Meutim monumentalnost u smislu deplasirane veliine nije dobra. OrisAko govorimo o traenju arhitektonske atmosfere, to stvarno uspostavlja odreenu arhitektonsku atmosferu? Peter ZumthorSve. Oblik prostora, stvari uokolo ko je reektiraju svjetlo. Atmosferu uspostavljaju materijali, energija. OrisModa i ulni karakter materijala doprinosi odreenoj atmosferi? Peter ZumthorDakako, materijale moemo tako kombinirati da zajedno djeluju loije ili bolje. OrisNa primjer barunasti sjaj betonskih zidova u vaoj kui ili u Kunsthaus Bregenz, ili pougljenjeni tragovi drveta u kombinaciji s blistavim kristalima u kapeli Bruder Klaus; potie li takav izbor materijala iz razliitih prijanjih doivljaja, iskustava, moda i iz literature? Peter ZumthorMislim da sve to ljudi rade kada neto stvaraju, potjee iz njihove biograje, a to znai iz neega to sam vidio i iskusio. Sve to mogu zamisliti je tijesno povezano s mojim biografskim iskustvima. Moja saznanja su gotovo stopostotno povezana s radovima ljudi koji su prije mene djelovali, veina od njih je ve mrtva. Izgraeni svijet stvorili su ljudi iz carstva mrtvih, iz povijesti. To me je formiralo i iz tog poriva radim. Volim tako raditi, pa i ne mislim da ako radim na taj nain, nisam moderan. OrisDakle osjeate se dijelom dugakog lanca, ali tko su druge karike tog lanca, koje su vama vane osobnosti? Peter ZumthorOsobnosti nisu vane. OrisAli njihova djela, djela tih mrtvih ljudi? Peter ZumthorTo nisu osobe, to su ljudi koje uope ne poznajem. To su brojne stvari koje su me se dojmile, zgrade, ulice,

a good monument is not too big, a church is not too big and a city hall is not too big either. In other words, if a monument has its meaning and sense, then it is good because it reects a community, city or landscape. However, monumentality in the sense of inappropriate grandeur is not good. OrisIf we speak about the search for architectural atmosphere: what truly constitutes a certain architectural atmosphere? Peter ZumthorEverything: the shape of a space, things around that reect light... An atmosphere is established by materials, energy. OrisPerhaps a sensual character of materials also contributes a certain atmosphere? Peter ZumthorOf course, we can combine materials in such a manner that together they leave an impression which can be better or worse. OrisFor example, the velvet glitter of the concrete walls in your house or in Kunsthaus Bregenz, or charred traces of wood in combination with shiny crystals in the Bruder Klaus chapel... Does the origin of such choices of materials lie in different earlier perceptions, experiences, perhaps in literature as well? Peter ZumthorI think that everything people do when they create has its origin in their biography and this means I saw something, I experienced something. All I can imagine is closely related to my biographic experiences. My cognitions are almost one hundred percent related to works of people who acted before me, and most of them are already dead. The constructed world was created by people from the kingdom of the dead, from history. This formed me, and I act out of that urge. I like to work like that and I do not think that working in this way means that I am not modern. OrisSo, you feel as if you are part of a long chain, but who are other links of this chain who are important to you? Personalities? Peter ZumthorPersonalities are not important. OrisBut their works, works by these dead people? Peter

ljudi koje ne poznajem, moda poznati, moda nepoznati, ne znam. Od tek malobrojnih svojih doivljaja poznajem izvor, znanstveni izvor. To nije povezano samo s uvenim arhitektima. Za vrijeme studija postoje uzori, trai se. Meutim u trenutku kada sam poeo s vlastitom praksom, uzori su postali manje vani, bilo je vano biti u svijetu. OrisSvijet je harmonian ili nije harmonian. Kakav je va odnos prema disharmoniji? U umjetnosti to moemo pratiti, primjerice, kod Boscha, poslije kod Goye ili u poeziji kod Lautramonta sjaj zla u Maldororovim pjevanjima poslije su preuzeli nadrealisti. Moderna je glazba napustila harmoniju ve poetkom 20. stoljea i dospjela je do vlastite negacije u djelu i idejama Johna Cagea, do potpune tiine. Peter ZumthorDisharmonija mi u arhitekturi ne treba. elim raditi mirne prostore, mirne kue. Kad bih moda jednom radio neki disko, to ne bi bilo tako mirno, ali disharmoniju kao princip kompozicije ne trebam. U arhitekturi se na taj nain ne izraavam. Potrebna mi je pojaana energija i napetost, ali to se poslije opet izgubi. Ipak, u suvremenoj glazbi nije tako da je melodija nestala ili da vie nema baroknih principa harmonije. Postoje i apstraktne slike koje su vrlo harmonine. Nije neophodno potrebna melodija i ne trebamo nuno vidjeti zalaz Sunca da bismo postigli i stvorili apstraktnu harmoniju. Harmonija i napetost su u
Peter Zumthor, Intervju

ZumthorThese are not personalities; these are people I do not know at all. These are numerous things that have left an impression on me: buildings, streets, people I dont know, perhaps famous, perhaps unknown, I dont know. I know the sources, the scientic sources of few of my experiences. This is not related only to famous architects. During the studies, there are models, one is searching. Nevertheless, at the moment I started my own practice, models became less important, it was meaningful to be in the world. OrisThe world is harmonious or not harmonious. What is your relation to disharmony? In art, we can for example follow it in works by Bosch and later on Goya; or in poetry, in works by Lautramont, the splendour of the evil in The Songs of Maldoror was later on taken over by surrealists. Modern music abandoned harmony at the beginning of the 20th century and reached its own negation in the work and ideas of John Cage: total silence. Peter ZumthorI do not need disharmony in architecture. I want to create calm spaces, calm houses. If at one point I created a disco club, this would not be so calm, but I do not need disharmony as a principle of composition. I do not express myself in architecture in that manner. I do need intense energy and tension, but this is again lost later on. Nonetheless, it is not that melody has disappeared in contemporary music or that there are no more
Peter Zumthor, Interview

Obnova De Meelfabriek, Leiden, Nizozemska, 2002., rendering i maketa Redevelopment of De Meelfabriek, Leiden, Holland, 2002-, rendering and model (APZ)

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Kue za Annalisu i Petera Zumthora, Vals, Leis, vicarska, 2009. Log houses for Annalisa and Peter Zumthor, Vals, Leis, Switzerland, 2009 (HB)

Kue za Annalisu i Petera Zumthora, Vals, Leis, vicarska, 2009. Log houses for Annalisa and Peter Zumthor, Vals, Leis, Switzerland, 2009 (HB)

redu, ali ne provokacija i agresivnost njima u mojim kuama nema mjesta. Orislvaro Siza je jednom prilikom rekao da u ovo ubrza no doba arhitektura mora biti vrlo polagana. Moete li nam neto kazati o svom radnom procesu? Peter ZumthorSpomenut u dvije stvari. Prvo, ja sudjelujem u razvija nju programa, ne provodim ve zadano. Kada doe investitor, zajedniki promiljamo to elimo graditi. Zatim se proces nastavlja, a mene u tome najvie zanima sadraj. Ne bih radio lijepu formu za glupi sadraj. Ne bavim se uslunom djelatnou. Drugo, radim unikate po mjeri, koje radim od poetka do kraja. To znai da ne radim ideje po mjeri, ni projekte po mjeri, radim kue po mjeri za koje radim sve. Kako bih tako mogao raditi, moram raditi vrlo brzo, izvanredno brzo. Ali ja sam i samokritian, projektirano mi se mo ra sviati, a za to mi je uvijek potreban odreeni proces naprijed i nazad, lijevo i desno dok sve napokon nije zaista usklaeno. Moda jo neto tree, radim samo originale, ne ponavljam se. Nastojim napraviti original za odreenu zadau i konkretno mjesto. Original predajem tek kad smatram da je dobar, prije toga ne gradim. Sve to radim relativno brzo, ali u usporedbi s radom drugih arhitekata to djeluje polako. No ja ne radim polako, radim brzo. OrisTo to ste rekli podsjetilo me na jednu emisiju na austrijskom radiju u kojoj ste govorili o svom obrazovanju, o
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baroque principles of harmony. There are also abstract paintings that are very harmonious. Melody is not necessarily needed and we do not necessarily have to see the sunset to create an abstract harmony. Harmony and tension, but not provocation and aggressiveness: there is no place for such things in my houses. Orislvaro Siza once said that in a time of acceleration, architecture has to be very slow. Can you tell us something about your work procedure? Peter ZumthorTwo things. First, I participate in the development of a programme, I do not execute the already dened. When an investor approaches me, we think together what we want to build. Then the process continues: I am interested in contents. I will not create a beautiful form for stupid contents. I am not a service provider. Second, I create unique works, customized unique works and I do the work from the beginning to the end. This means that I do not make customized ideas or customized projects, I create customized houses and I do everything on them. In order to be able to work like that, I have to work very quickly, extremely quickly. But, I also possess self-criticism: I have to like what was designed and for that, I always need a certain process yonder and back, left and right until nally everything is truly harmonized. Perhaps third as well, I only create original works, I do not repeat myself. I try to create an original work for a particular task and concrete place. I hand over the original work
oris, number 73, year 2012 Peter Zumthor, Intervju Peter Zumthor, Interview 17

svom razvojnom putu kao arhitekta te da je bilo vano da ste se ve u djetinjstvu, u radionici vaeg oca upoznali sa stolarskim alatom. Bilo je rijei o ponosu obrtnika da svaki predmet uradi dobro i ispravno, bez ieg suvinog. Kazali ste da je to bilo ak vanije od studija u New Yorku te takoer da je obrtna kola bila za vas vana. Peter ZumthorDa, to je bilo od velike vanosti. Mislim da je za arhitekta, koji eli graditi kue, potrebno da zna poneto o kulturi izraivanja, da za to ima osjeaj. Napokon, kue jo uvijek najveim dijelom nastaju radom ljudskih ruku.
Muzej Kolumba nadbiskupije u Klnu, Kln, Njemaka, 2007. Kolumba Art Museum of the Archbishopric of Cologne, Cologne, Germany, 2007 (DF)

OrisKada je rije o radu ljudskih ruku, kako stoje stvari s jednim relativno velikim projektom kao u Leidenu? Kako se odvija prijelaz od jednoga relativno malog mjerila na mjerilo jednoga grada? Rije je o itavoj gradskoj etvrti koja e biti obnovljena. Vjerojatno je to prilino komplicirano zbog ukljuenosti razliitih faktora. Peter ZumthorNe vidim velike razlike. Postoji osjeaj: ako znamo kako se radi soba, znamo i kako se gradi kua. Ako se gradi kua svjesno u odnosu na njezin utjecaj na okolinu, onda se ima pojam o tome
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only when I think it is good; I do not build before that. All this I do pretty quickly, but in comparison with other architects it seems slow. Nevertheless, I do not work slowly, I work quickly. OrisThis reminds me of a radio show on an Austrian radio station in which you talked about your education, about the path of your development as an architect, and about the importance of the fact that you had already met ca bi netmakers tools in childhood in your fathers workshop. You
oris, number 73, year 2012

to bi mogao biti grad i tako dalje. To znai dakako mnogo vie rada, u igri je mnogo vie faktora, sve je sloenije, ali zapravo volim taj rad. Ne slijedim neku teoriju, moj postupak je vie fenomenoloki. Gledam gdje lee problemi, kakva su mogua rjeenja pa nastojim nai jednostavne, direktne odgovore. To je esto vieslojno, treba dati odgovore u odnosu na velike i na male stvari. OrisKako znamo su evociranje emocija i materijalnost od znatne vanosti za va rad, kao i intuitivna strana vae
Peter Zumthor, Intervju

spoke of the pride of a craftsman in making each and every object well and correctly, without anything redundant. You said that it was even more important than your studies in New York and also that vocational school was important to you. Peter ZumthorYes, this was very important. I think that it is necessary for an architect, who wants to build houses, to know something about the culture of making, to have a feeling for that. After all, houses have still been for the most part created by the work of human hands.
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osobnosti, kakva je, s druge strane, prema vaem sudu uloga inteligencije, intelektualnog ina u procesu projektiranja? Peter ZumthorZa na ivot je vrlo znaajno da posje dujemo intuiciju, ali imamo i mozak. Mozak je sporiji od intuicije jer intuicija je neposredna, a mozak treba neko vrijeme da procesuira informacije. Intuicija je opsena, iroka, na neki nain je nalik otrom nou. Stoga je vrlo vano da imam osjeaj kako mi intuicija govori da neto uinim, a nakon te reakcije svojom pameu nastojim saznati zato. No intuicija je prva. Dakako, mladi arhitekti, koji dolaze sa sveuilita, navikli su da misle kako je dobro samo ono o emu se moe govoriti. Ako neto moete dobro objasniti, moglo bi biti dobro. To je ono to ue u koli. Moraju nauiti da prvo dolazi intuitivna, emocionalna reakcija, a tek kada se to dogodilo, slijedi pitanje zato je osjeaj takav kakav je. Budui da intelekt otkriva zato je neto dobro, zato loe, iz kojeg razloga je neto pogreno, treba ga koristiti, ali ne obratno. OrisMoete li objasniti na primjeru projekta Vals tu interakciju izmeu intuicije i intelektualnosti? Peter ZumthorDa opiem proces koji je trajao sedam godina? Bio je to kontinuirani proces. Proces je uvijek isti: prvo nastaje osjeaj. No mogue je takoer da imam apstraktnu ideju koja zvui dobro, ali osjeaj e rei je li mogua ili nije. Kad osjeaj nije dobar, znai da moram saznati to nije u redu. To je kod svakog projekta isto to je projektiranje. Neki ljudi kau da je projektiranje odluivanje, no dakako treba dati i formu. Takav je moj radni proces. OrisAli za proces je bolje ako je osjeaj snaniji od misli, od racionalnosti? Peter Zumthorelim rei kako osjeaj zna puno, a glavom ga se moe kontrolirati ili glava zna mnogo toga, a osjeaj e onda kazati je li to ispravno.

OrisWhen we talk about the work of human hands, what is the situation like in a relatively big project like the one in Leiden? How does the transfer from a relatively small scale to the scale of a town develop? This is an entire town block here, which will be renovated. It is probably quite complicated due to involvement of different factors. Peter ZumthorI do not see a big difference. There is the feeling: if we know how to build a room, we also know how to build a house. If a house is built consciously in relation to what it means for its surroundings, then there is an idea about what a town could be and so on. This does mean far more work, there are many more factors in the game, everything is more complex, but I actually like this work. I do not follow a theory, my procedure is more phenomenological. I observe where the problems are, what the possible solutions are, and I try to nd simple, direct answers. Frequently, this has a multi-layered quality, one ought to provide answers in relation to large and small things. OrisAs we all know, evoking emotions and materiality are quite important in your work, as well as the intuitive side of your personality. What role does the intelligence, the intellectual act, play in the design process? Peter ZumthorIt is very important in our lives that we do have intuition and that we also have a brain. The brain is slower than intuition: we know that intuition operates immediately, and the brain needs some time. Intuition is extensive, wide, like a sharp knife to some extent. Therefore, it is very important to feel in what way my intuition tells me to do something and after this reaction, I try to nd out why with my mind. But, intuition comes rst. Of course, young architects who come from university have this habit of thinking that only what you can talk about is good. If you can explain something well, it might be good. This is what they

Dobro je da ljudi imaju obadvije mogunosti, ali na kraju mora i glava biti suglasna, inae ne mogu raditi. OrisMoete li nam rei neto o odnosu izmeu arhitekta i investitora? Ima li sluajeva da su investitori ponekad preoptereeni zbog vae sklonosti perfekciji, zbog elje da se sve napravi dobro i tono? Peter ZumthorInvestitori su uvijek poneto preoptereeni, naime oko sredine graevnog procesa gube strpljenje, ali kada je zgrada dovrena, situacija je opet dobra, onda su zadovoljni. Mi radimo ekstremno tono i s golemom panjom. Na poetku, jo prije izvedbe, dok je sve jo samo na rijeima, investitori to vole: Super je da radite tako precizno, ali nastaju tekoe kad to postaje stvarnost. Doivio sam to gotovo u svakom sluaju. OrisVi ste istovremeno takoer investitor dviju kua u Leisu, u planinama, za vau enu i za vas, koje su vrlo razliite od kue u Haldensteinu. to vas je navelo na tako radikalnu uporabu masivnog drveta? Due vremena ste se bavili tradicionalnim graenjem u Graubndenu, ak ste o tome izdali i knjigu, jesu li te nove kue reeks toga? Peter ZumthorIz dva sam razloga gradio drvetom. Jedan je da su tamo gore u planinama mnoga mjesta graena takvim gredama, pa se tako postaje novim susjedom iz iste obitelji. Za tako maleno mjesto to nije loe. Tamo neemo rei dolazim iz Amerike To je mogue ako se hoe, no za mene je bila vana nova interpretacija starog naina graenja. Znam to je kod toga pozitivno, to su nedostaci, to slabosti i to se mora napraviti. Imao sam ideju kako napraviti velike otvore, a da se takav nain graenja ne povrije di. Drugi je razlog bio da je moja ena oduvijek eljela drvenu kuu, a ja dijelim njeno miljenje da se ovjek u takvoj kui osjea posve drugaije nego u kui od betona. Fantastino je stanovati u kui od masivnog drva i to predstavlja gotovo luksuz, privilegiju.

learn at school. They have to learn that the intuitive, emotional reaction comes rst and when this happens, the question why follows: Why is this feeling like this? Since the intellect reveals why something is good, why something is bad, why something is wrong, one should use it, but not vice versa. OrisCan you maybe explain this interplay between intuition and intellectual by the example of the Vals project? Peter ZumthorTo describe a process that lasted for seven years? It was a continuous process. The process is always the same: a feeling comes into being. Nevertheless, it is also possi ble that an abstract idea occurs to me. It sounds good, there is something there and the feeling will tell whether it is possible or not. Sometimes, it does not feel right, that means there is something there, but I have to nd out what. It is the same in each and every project it is designing. Some people say designing is making decisions, but naturally, you also have to provide the form. This is what my working procedure looks like. OrisBut, it is better for the process if the feeling is more powerful than thought, than rationality, isnt it? Peter ZumthorI want to say that the feeling knows a lot, and the head can control it or the head knows a lot and the feeling will then tell whether it is right. It is good that people have both options, but in the end my head has to agree as well, otherwise I cannot work. OrisCan you tell us something about the relationship between architect and investor? Are there cases in which investors are sometimes overburdened because of your tendency for perfectionism, your desire to do everything well and correctly? Peter ZumthorInvestors are always somewhat overburdened; that is, somewhere around

Steilneset, spomenik rtvama progona vjetica u Finnmarku, Vard, Norveka, 2011. Steilneset Memorial for the Victims of the Witch Trials in the Finnmark, Vard, Norway, 2011

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OrisU kojoj vam je mjeri vana empatija pri projektiranju i graenju? Neki se arhitekti postavljaju u poziciju demijurga koji ljudima donosi dobro i lijepo. Peter ZumthorUvijek pokuavam zamisliti kakvu bih ja kuu volio, kako bih je nap ravio da pripada meni. Jedan od Kan tovih kategorikih imperativa glasi uvijek u drutvenoj zajednici djeluj tako kako bi sam htio da rade i drugi. Tako i nastojim djelovati pa nisam imao loih iskustava. Do sada je uvijek bilo tako da ako se meni dopadalo, onda se svialo i mnogim drugim ljudima. OrisKada govorite o graenju masivnim drvetom, predstav lja li to u vaem radu svjesno etiko opredjeljenje u od nosu na odrivost? Peter ZumthorMislim da je odrivost preduvjet, drvo je dio diskursa, no to je samo jedan od brojnih aspekata, nije prevladavajui aspekt. No, mislim da moramo o odrivosti voditi rauna koliko je mogue. Za ovu drvenu kuu mogli smo eventualno dobiti nagradu za energetsko graenje, tako je dobro izolirana i slino. Nakon to je sve provjereno, reeno nam je da ne moemo
24 oris, broj 73, godina 2012 oris, number 73, year 2012 (JH) Peter Zumthor, Intervju

the middle of the building process they lose patience, but when a building is completed the situation is good again, then they are satised. It is extreme how precisely we work and how much care is involved. In the beginning, even before execution, while everything is just words, investors are happy: It is great, when you do things precisely... but difficulties arise when this becomes reality. I have experienced that in almost every case. OrisYou are also the investor in two houses in Leis as well, in the mountains, for you and for your wife. These are very different houses from the one in Haldenstein. What motivated you to use massive wood so radically? For quite some time, you dealt with traditional building in Graubnden; you even published a book about it. Are these houses a reflection of what you were dealing with? Peter ZumthorI was building with wood for two reasons. One is that up there, in the mountains, many places were being built with such beams and if you build in such a manner then you become a new neighbour in the same family. It is not bad for such a small settlement. We will not say there I am coming from
Peter Zumthor, Interview

Steilneset, spomenik rtvama progona vjetica u Finnmarku, Vard, Norveka, 2011. Steilneset Memorial for the Victims of the Witch Trials in the Finnmark, Vard, Norway, 2011 (JH)

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Muzej rudnika cinka Almannajuvet, Sauda, Norveka, 2003., maketa Almannajuvet Zinc-Mine Museum, Sauda, Norway, 2003, model

dobiti nagradu, jer je jedan veliki prozor orijentiran prema sjeveroistoku. Taj prozor ima pogled na lijepu planinu. OrisJo jedna velika tema bila bi graenje u kontekstu. Radili ste ovdje u Kantonu Graubnden vie godina u Slubi za zatitu spomenika. Zacijelo ste tako stekli dobar odnos prema povijesnoj gradnji. Izvrstan primjer za to je dakako projekt Muzeja Kolumba. Mislim da je tu vrlo istinita reenica Novo nam omoguuje da staro vidimo bolje. Peter ZumthorDa, katkada je to tako da je onda staro mogue vidjeti bolje. Novo mora razviti pozitivan odnos prema starome, ali ne smije rei da je mnogo bolje od starog. Mora postojati odreeno potovanje. To mi je vrlo vano, ali samo ako staro zasluuje potovanje, to naravno nije sluaj sa svime to je staro. OrisU Muzeju Kolumbe to posebno dolazi do izraaja u ar heo lo koj dvorani. Da bi se pokazalo staro, iznaen je pos ve novi materijal, Kolumba-opeka, to je omoguilo do vo enje svjetlosti i atmosfere do iskopina. Peter ZumthorZapravo nikada nisam vidio neto dobro kod iskopina nita to bi izazvalo ugoaj. Nastojao sam napraviti okvir koji moe pomoi da se vidi staro, da se u prostoru pojavljuje u lijepom svjetlu. OrisTamo se pokazuje cijeli povijesni kontinuitet mjesta od rimskog razdoblja, preko srednjeg vijeka do pe de se tih godina, do kapele Gottfrieda Bhma. Peter ZumthorDa, to je poput vremeplova.

America... It is possible if one wants it, but for me, a new interpretation of the old way of building was important. I know what the positive sides are, what the disadvantages are, what the weaknesses are, and what has to be done. I had an idea how to create large openings without disturbing this style of building. Another reason was the fact that my wife always wanted a wooden house, and I agree with her opinion that a person feels completely different in such a house in comparison with a house made of concrete. In other words, massive wood is a fantastic surrounding, and residing in such a house is almost a luxury, a privilege. OrisTo what extent is empathy important to you while designing and while building? Some architects take the position of a demiurge, bringing people something good and beautiful. Peter ZumthorI always try to imagine what kind of house I would like to have, how I would build it if it belonged to me. The German philosopher Kant said something like this: In a community, always act in the same manner you would want others to act. In other words, the categorical imperative. This is how I try to act and I have not had bad experiences. It has always been like that so far, if I like something then many other people also like it. OrisWhen you talk about building with massive wood, is there a conscious ethical commitment with regard to sustainability in your work? Peter ZumthorI think

sustainability is a precondition, wood is part of the discourse, nevertheless this is merely one among a number of aspects, it is not a predominant aspect. But I think we should take sustainability into consideration as much as possible. This wooden house could have possibly won us an award for energy efficient building: it is well insulated and so on. After everything was checked, we were told we could not be given the award due to one big window facing north-east. This window has a view of a beautiful mountain. OrisAnother large theme would be building in a context. You used to work for a number of years in canton Graubnden in the Department for the Preservation of Monuments. Therefore, you must have acquired a good relation to buildings of the past. An excellent example of that is certainly the Kolumba project. We think that in this case the sentence The new enables us to see the old better is very true here. Peter ZumthorYes, sometimes it is true that one can better see the old in such a case. The new has to develop a positive relation to the old. The new must not say that it is much better than the old. A certain respect has to exist here. It is very important to me that the old should command respect, although naturally that is not the case with everything which is old. OrisIn Kolumba, this is of particular importance in the archaeological hall. In order to show the old, an entirely new material was invented, Kolumba bricks, and this enables OrisNemogue je u vaem radu previdjeti spiritualnost, bringing light and atmosphere to excavations. Peter ali ne mislim pritom na za vas u publicistici upotrebljavane ZumthorActually, I have never seen a good something epitete poput mistiara, amana i slino. No, na primjer novi around excavations... something that would create an projekt u Norvekoj za vjetice iz Varda povezan je s povijesti atmosphere. I attempted to create a frame that can help in mjesta i ljudskom povijesti. Tu je jo i krasni objekt Louise seeing the old, that can make it appear in the beautiful light Bourgeois. Kakav je bio proces pronalaenja toga dugakog in space. niza u kojem je za svaku rtvu predviena posebna elija? OrisAn entire historical continuum of the place is displayed Peter ZumthorProzor, za svaku pojedinu rtvu je tamo there from Roman times, to the Middle Ages, to the fifties, poseban prozor i tekst s njenim ivotopisom. Kako je tamo to the chapel by Gottfried Bhm. Peter ZumthorYes, bila 91 rtva, zgrada je postala dugaka, kroz nju moemo it is like a time machine. prolaziti i itati 91 biograju. Predloio sam Louise Bourgeois OrisIt is impossible not to see spirituality in your work. I za kreiranje umjetnike instalacije. Ta dugaka graevina s do not refer here to epithets assigned to you in publications, prozorima bila je moja ideja na koju su me potakle dvije stvari like the mystic, the shaman and similar. But, for example, koje sam tamo vidio. Naime u Skandinaviji me se dojmilo da the new project in Norway for the witches from Vard is kada su tamo ljudi kod kue, jedan je prozor osvijetljen, to je related to the history of a place and human history. There njihova tradicija. Druga su stvar bili dugaki stalci za suenje is also that wonderful object by Louise Bourgeois there. It ribe koje nalazimo kod starije arhitekture. Nakon to sam to is all marvellous. What was the process of finding this long vidio, forma je prirodno proizala iz toga. To sam i objasnio line in which a special cell was anticipated for each victim? prigodom inauguracije, a poslije sam saznao da su mjetani Peter ZumthorA window; there is a special window prvi put rekli: O, pa to ima veze s nama. Opet u ii tamo i for each individual victim and a text with her biography. Since odrati predavanje za kolu i za mjetane. there were 91 victims there, the building became long; we can
Peter Zumthor, Intervju Peter Zumthor, Interview

vicarski Sound Box, vicarski paviljon za Expo 2000., Hannover, Njemaka, 2000. Swiss Sound Box, Swiss Pavilion Expo 2000, Hannover, Germany, 2000 (TF)

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OrisDakle mogu se identicirati i vide da je njihova po- pass through the building and read 91 biographies. I suggested vijest revalorizirana. Peter ZumthorUpravo tako. that Louise Bourgeois create the artistic installation. My OrisAli postoji jo jedan projekt za Norveku. Peter idea was this long building with windows. I was impressed ZumthorDa, Muzej rudnika cinka Almannjuvet u Saudi. in Scandinavia by the fact that when people are at home To su naputeni rudnici. Projekt jo nije dovren, bit e gotov there, one window is lighted. This is Nordic tradition. The tek sljedee godine. other thing was the fact that we can nd long racks for drying OrisKakav je projekt u programskom smislu? Peter sh there in older architecture. If this was visible, the form is ZumthorDjelomino sadri lokalnu povijest, odnosno understandable. On the occasion of the inauguration, I said rudnike cinka, a treba voditi rauna i o injenici da to malo that I had this idea when I saw the racks for drying sh and mjesto Sauda, mali industrijski i ribarski gradi na kraju svijeta, lighted windows in the houses. Later on, I found out that the ima izvjesne socijalne potrebe, zato se tamo nalazi i kavana locals for rst time said: Oh, but this has something to do i nekoliko drugih mogunosti koje stoje na raspolaganju with us. I will go there again and hold a lecture for the school mje ta nima. Zatim je tu muzej u kojem nema mnogo toga and local inhabitants. za pokazati. Jedan knjievnik je izdao knjigu, antologiju ru- OrisTherefore, they can identify with it and see that their darstva, o egzistenciji ispod zemlje; opisuje objekte koji se history is revalorized. Peter ZumthorExactly. mogu vidjeti u originalu u tom muzeju. Ima voenih raz gle- OrisBut, there is yet another project for Norway... Peter davanja rudnika. To je tipian projekt u kojem sam sudjelovao ZumthorYes, the Almannajuvet Zinc Mine Museum in u razvijanju programa. Sauda. These are abandoned mines. The project has not been OrisRekli ste da je gotovo idealna situacija ako radite s completed yet. It will not be nished until next year. jednim jedinim investitorom. to ini neku narudbu ideal- OrisWhat is the project like in programmatic sense? nom? Peter ZumthorPotreban mi je netko tko ima u Peter ZumthorIt partly contains local history: there mene povjerenja, tko voli moj nain rada, kome se svia to are zinc mines, and one should also take into consideration to radim. Mora postojati povjerenje. Ako narudba ima samo the fact that this small settlement, Sauda, a small industrial komercijalni karakter, nisam zainteresiran. and shing town at the end of the world, has certain social OrisNeki vai radovi su ve dvadesetak godina u posjedu needs and therefore there is a cafe there and several other svojih vlasnika. Jesu li investitori i nakon deset, dvadeset go- possibilities which are at the disposal of the local population. dina sretni u tim zgradama? Peter ZumthorKau da And then, there is also the museum, there is not much to su svi vrlo sretni. Neke od njih ne volim, ali oni su sretni s show. One writer published a book, an anthology of mining, kuama. One su najbolji advokati mog rada, a ne rijei, planovi about existence underground; it described objects, the ili modeli dovrena zgrada je dokaz. No ponekad taj put nije originals of which can be seen in this museum. There are nimalo lagan. tours through the museum with a guide. It is a typical OrisSpomenula bih jednu vau zgradu, vjerojatno ih je project and I participated in development of the programme vie, koja nije bila graena da traje zgrada za Expo Hannover. for this project. to se dogodilo s njom? Peter ZumthorBila je prodana OrisYou said it is almost an ideal situation working with za potrebe graenja kua. just one investor. What makes a commission ideal? Peter OrisDakle bila je uspjeno reciklirana. Znate li to e ZumthorI need somebody who trusts me, who likes se u budunosti dogoditi s paviljonom Serpentine u Lon- the way I work, who likes what I do. There has to be trust. donu? Peter ZumthorBit e uniten. Biljke e poslati If a commission is of solely commercial character, I am not u Yorkshire jer ih je tamo kupila jedna dama. Mi emo na- interested. praviti novu verziju za Nmes u Francuskoj, bit e to ista geo- OrisSome of your works have been held by their owners metrija s novim materijalom i novim biljkama prikladnim za for some twenty years already. Are your clients equally Francusku. happy in these buildings after ten, twenty years? Peter OrisModa jo jedno pitanje o utjecajima koji ne potjeu ZumthorThey all say they are very happy. I do not like samo iz domene graenog, iz arhitekture, ve su mnogostruki, some of them, but they are happy with their houses. They are a odnose se na glazbu, na literaturu. Jesu li to tek poticaji ili the best advocates of my work; not words, plans or models, postoji dublja povezanost, na primjer, s literaturom? Sada ne but a completed building is the proof. Nevertheless, to get bih govorila o Adalbertu Stifteru, koji je vjerojatno prije bio there is sometimes not easy at all.
28 oris, number 73, year 2012 Peter Zumthor, Intervju Peter Zumthor, Interview

Peter Zumthor, Terme Vals, Graubnden, vicarska, 1996. Peter Zumthor, Therme Vals, Graubnden, Switzerland, 1996 (MS)

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vaan, ali moda je sada neto drugo, pa i neka druga glazba, prije je to vjerojatno bio jazz. Jesu li u vae djelo upleteni i utkani svi ti utjecaji jer negdje ste rekli: Sve upuuje na sve? Peter ZumthorUpravo tako. No to nije nita naroito, to je kao u svih ljudi. Kada itamo i sluamo, moe nas u vlas titom radu inspirirati ponekad ovo, a ponekad ono. Ipak moram rei da to to smo moja ena i ja napravili u Valsu u arhitektonskom, ali i u sadrajnom smislu u pogledu hotelskog koncepta, ljudi tamo nisu razumjeli koliko je tu bilo bavljenja literaturom, suvremenom glazbom i umjetnou. Zanima me kultura, mnogo sam doivio, radoznao sam, poneto se razumijem u umjetnost, u suvremenu glazbu, u staru glazbu i sva kako u literaturu. To je iroka lepeza interesa koja je svojstvena i brojnim drugim umjetnicima i intelektualcima. Orisivite na selu, je li vam potreban mir, odvojenost od vanjskih zbivanja kako biste mogli zaista mirno i nesmetano raditi? Peter ZumthorZapravo je to sluajnost, nema veze s arhitekturom da sada ne ivim u Baselu, ali i sluajevi mogu biti dobri. Zadovoljan sam, mislim da mi je ovdje posve dobro. Ovdje ne idem tako esto u kino, a u Zrichu bih moda iao znatno ee. Morao bih davati manje intervjua i ii ee u kino.

OrisI know that one of the buildings, but probably there are more than one, was not built to last the Expo Hannover building. So, what happened to that building? Peter ZumthorIt was sold in order to build houses. OrisIn other words, it was successfully recycled. Do you know what will happen with the Serpentine Pavilion in London in the future? Peter ZumthorIt will be demolished. The plants will be removed to Yorkshire, a lady there bought them. We will make a new version for Nmes in France. It will have the same geometry, but with new material: new plants suitable for France. OrisPerhaps one more question about influences that do not originate merely from the domain of the constructed, from architecture, but are manifold, relate to music, to literature. Are these solely motivation or is there a more profound connection, for example, with literature? I would not like to talk about Adalbert Stifter at the moment, who was probably important before. Nonetheless, perhaps something else is significant now, even another kind of music, earlier it was probably jazz. Has this then been intertwined and interwoven in your work because you said somewhere: Everything refers to everything else. Peter ZumthorExactly. But, this is nothing special; it is like with all other people. When we read or listen to something, sometimes this and sometimes that can inspire us in our own work. Still, I have to say that what my wife and I did in Vals in terms of architecture as well as contents concerning the hotel concept there was so much involvement in literature, contemporary music and art people there did not understand it. I think that I know quite a lot, I am interested in culture, I have had a lot of experience, I am curious, I have some knowledge about art, about contemporary music, about old music, and certainly about literature. It is a wide range of interests that is typical for numerous other artists and intellectuals. OrisYou live in a village. Do you need peace, isolation from worldly events in order to really work in peace and undisturbed? Peter ZumthorActually its a coincidence that I dont live in Basel at the moment, it doesnt have anything to do with architecture, but coincidences can be good as well. I am content; I think its just ne here. I dont go that often to the cinema here; in Zurich, I would perhaps have to go to the cinema much more frequently. I would have to give fewer interviews and go to the cinema more frequently.

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oris, broj 73, godina 2012

oris, number 73, year 2012

Peter Zumthor, Intervju

Peter Zumthor, Interview

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