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7/23/2014 Threats of Violence and Death Against Doubletree Hilton in Detroit Over Mens Conference

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7/23/2014 Threats of Violence and Death Against Doubletree Hilton in Detroit Over Mens Conference
http://www.avoiceformen.com/a-voice-for-men/threats-of-violence-and-death-against-doubletree-hilton-in-detroit-over-mens-conference/ 2/18
May 30, 2014 By Paul Elam 423 Comments
Dear readers and supporters of AVFM and fellow MHRAs,
We have encountered what we hope and expect will be a temporary issue on our path to Detroit for the
First International Conference on Mens Issues in June.
As we have seen so many times before, gender ideologues who do not believe that any discussion of the
issues faced by boys and men should take place unless it meets a feminist (anti-male) litmus test, have
resorted to the tactic of threatening violence against innocent people in order to silence free speech.
I am just recently in receipt of a letter from the corporate management of Hilton Hotels. This letter leaves
little to the imagination about the kind of individuals we are dealing with, and what their intent is in this
matter. It is quite simply to make the conference event unsafe and cost prohibitive through threat and
intimidation.
There are two things I need to make clear. One, I have no animosity toward Hilton management regarding
this matter. In every interaction we have had with them thus far, they have been professional, courteous
and accommodating.
I recognize that they have valid concerns about the safety of their employees, other guests and indeed our
conference attendees. I share those concerns. This was clearly a hand that was forced on them, just as it
has been forced on us.
To ensure that there is no backlash against any individual at Hilton, I have had the individuals name who
signed the letter redacted.
The other thing I want to make clear is that we have every intention of making this conference go forward.
We have never given up on anything we intended to do, and we do not plan to start now. We will not fall
silent in the face of fascists and ideological thugs who would use heinous threats to maintain control of a
public discourse that is in dire need of balanced, sane change.
That being said, the prospect of 72 straight hours of coverage from 7 police officers is financially daunting.
We do not yet know what the costs associated with this will be but are now in contact with Detroit Police to
secure those services as well as securing the liability policy required.
It has been said, over and over again on the pages of this website, First they ignore you, then they laugh at
you, then they fight you and then you win.
SEARCH THE SITE ...


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7/23/2014 Threats of Violence and Death Against Doubletree Hilton in Detroit Over Mens Conference
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And so now, we are fighting. And we plan, regardless of the outcome here, to keep fighting. We will not be
silenced by bullies, nor will we be disheartened by the antics of those we have long known to be morally
bankrupt.
Please stay tuned, because we will be asking you to join that fight. There will necessarily be a fundraiser
established to help defray the cost of the added security and insurance. Look for that to commence in
about 48 hours or so. In the meantime, if you intend to help us with the added costs, please wait till that
outreach for funding is officially launched.
If you want to assist now with many of the other abundant costs of this event, of course you will find the
donation button at the upper right of this page.
One of the best ways you can support us now is to purchase one of the remaining tickets and to attend
the event.
We are making history here, folks. Sometimes, almost always in fact, that proves to be a somewhat messy
business. We are prepared to deal with that business and to emerge from it in a new era for men and
women in this culture.
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Filed Under: A Voice For Men, Featured, Feminist Violence
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About Paul Elam
Paul Elam is the founder and publisher of A Voice for Men, the founder of A
Voice for Men Radio, the AVfM YouTube Channel, and appears weekly on AVFM
Intelligence Report, Going Mental with Dr. Tara Palmatier and monthly on
MANstream Media with Warren Farrell and Tom Golden.
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7/23/2014 Threats of Violence and Death Against Doubletree Hilton in Detroit Over Mens Conference
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423 Comments A Voice for Men Login
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Guest 2 months ago
Clearly these feminists that are threatening the conference are domestic terrorists. They are using threats
of violence to force compliance from law abiding citizens. I certainly hope that the Department of Homeland
Security has been alerted to this threat.

109
Reply
Shrek6 2 months ago Guest
Nothing new. This happens all the time. They were particularly violent in Canada a year ago, which
really helped our cause tremendously.
I wonder if anyone from the Hotel chain has bothered to report the threats to the police or the Four
Bloody Idiots (FBI)?
Just wonderin is all!

38
Reply
sybilll 2 months ago Guest
Because they are not Veterans or Tea Party patrons.

9
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Reply
Guest 2 months ago sybilll
Are you supporting Domestic terrorism?

3
Reply
Matthew Lane 2 months ago Guest
Not terrorist, because terrorism actually has a specific definition that this doesn't qualify for.... But
wannabe fascists, you bet your Fedora.

3
Reply
Sadman365 2 months ago Matthew Lane
Then you have the wrong definition of "terrorism". What these TERRORISTS are doing
can't be defined any other way other than TERRORISM. They're not domestic terrorist.
They are INTERNATIONAL terrorists because they work globally.

2
Reply
Matthew Lane 2 months ago Sadman365
"Then you have the wrong definition of terrorism"
/facepalm.
No its not MY definition of terrorism, its the FBI's legal definition of terrorism. Well
done, you've just demonstrated why its not just feminists who try to change the
definition of words to suit there cause.


Reply
Danny 20 days ago Matthew Lane
Then you have the wrong definition. Look it up in a dictionary, not a law book. They're
damn terrorists. From Dictionary.com:
terrorism [ter-uh-riz-uhm] Show IPA noun
1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political
purposes.
terrorist
[ter-er-ist] Show IPA
noun
1.a person, usually a member of a group, who uses or advocates terrorism.


Matthew Lane 20 days ago Danny
Sure Danny & feminism is an equality movement because
feminism
1. the doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to
those of men.
2. ( sometimes initial capital letter ) an organized movement for the attainment of
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Reply
2. ( sometimes initial capital letter ) an organized movement for the attainment of
such rights for women.
3. feminine character.
Now you would agree that women deserve social, political, and all other rights of
women equal to those of men right Danny? Great, Danny you must be a feminist,
because the dictionary told me so.


Reply
Razedbywolvs 2 months ago Matthew Lane
https://www.aclu.org/sites/def...

1
Reply
Matthew Lane 2 months ago Razedbywolvs
That link does not change the fact that they are not terrorists, because they do not fit
into the legal definition of terrorist nor terrorism. I know that's a buzz word for
Americans, but its not terrorism.

3
Reply
Razedbywolvs 2 months ago Matthew Lane
Yes that link does change the fact. Read it stupid.

3
Reply
Razedbywolvs 2 months ago Matthew Lane
Here il make it real simple. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
"There is neither an academic nor an international legal consensus regarding the
definition of the term terrorism.[1][2]
Various legal systems and government agencies use different
definitions. Moreover, governments have been reluctant to formulate an
agreed upon, legally binding definition. These difficulties arise from
the fact that the term is politically and emotionally charged."

3
Matthew Lane 2 months ago Razedbywolvs
See this is why we can't have nice things: Because people are google-stupid.
You didn't actually read what was written did you. You've missed the salient words in
the aforementioned text: "There is neither an academic nor an INTERNATIONAL
legal CONSENSUS regarding the definition of the term terrorism."
This is 100% true: However there is a legal definition in America, which the American
law enforcement agencies apply.... This conference taking place in America, is
under the purview of the American law enforcement & intelligence agencies to whom
the above comments were appealing to.
The FBI definition of "domestic terrorism" means activities with the following three
characteristics:
1. Involve acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
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Reply
1. Involve acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
2. Appear intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the
policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a
government by mass destruction, assassination. or kidnapping; and
3. Occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S.
An as such does not count as terrorism. In the future, do some actual real research,
don't just look for something that confirms things you already think you know.

3
Reply
Incubus 2 months ago Matthew Lane
I would say threatening to pose as hotel guests in order to kill other guests,
employees, and conference attendees if the conference isn't cancelled counts as
involving "acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law," appears
"intended to intimidate or coerce a civilian population," and occurs "primarily within
the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S."
As a matter of fact, it sounds almost identical to the things that some groups that are
labelled terrorist groups have done.
Perhaps you're arguing that because they've only issued threats, rather than actually
doing these things, it doesn't qualify as terrorism? To my knowledge, once threats of
these actions have been made, or attempts have been made to bring about these
incidents, the label can be applied, even if the action doesn't end up taking place.

21
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Matthew Lane 2 months ago Incubus
No mate, they are just talking shit, which is perfectly legal. Stupid, but legal.... Its
literally covered under freedom of speech. Now if they were to call the hotel &
threaten to kill some people that would be a threat.... But talking shit in your facebook
group is just talking shit.

3
Reply
Len Firewood 2 months ago Matthew Lane
"The threats have escalated to include death threats, physical violence against our
staff and other guests as well as damage to the property. The callers have indicated
that they will be stationed within the hotel as guests, which raises our level of
concern. "
This is well beyong just "talking shit on Facebook" - maybe you should get a job as
PR for the group(s) involved as you are doing a determined attempt at apologia so
far.

11
Steve Struthers 2 months ago Len Firewood
Uttering death threats and threats of physical violence is pretty serious and could
easily qualify as terrorism. Across the river in Windsor, making such threats would
actually constitute a crime and the cops in Canada tend to clamp down pretty hard
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actually constitute a crime and the cops in Canada tend to clamp down pretty hard
on such things.

1
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Matthew Lane 2 months ago Len Firewood
Its not apologia, its just not a threat. The same way its not stalking when one of the
AVFM writers writes about a particular outspoken feminist, just like its not a rape
threat when we one of us tells a feminist her opinion is wrong.
I'd be more worried about eating poorly prepared con food & dying from terminal food
poisoning then anything these feminists would do. That's a much more real concern.


Reply
Dagda Mr 2 months ago Matthew Lane
Yeah Erin Pizzey would disagree with you there.
Also what are you smoking, you're comparing critical analysis of wildly flawed
theories to someone threatening to kill people! What crackpottery is this.
And given the political and legal aims of the MHRM this does qualify as terrorism
under at least two of your three criteria, almost certainly all three.
You need to take off your feminist coloured glasses mate, threatening violence is
never just "talking shit", especially from a notably violent group.

12
Reply
Matthew Lane 2 months ago Dagda Mr
"Also what are you smoking, you're comparing critical analysis of wildly flawed
theories to someone threatening to kill people!"
Not at all, what we are talking about is the difference between your over reacting in
opposition to something & feminist over reacting in opposition to something.... An
sadly those two things are exactly the same thing, the only difference is whose doing
it.

1
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Len Firewood 2 months ago Matthew Lane
If this was just talk on blogs, Facebook or Twitter I would be more inclined to see
your point but since these are threats delivered directly to Hilton management &
employees you are well overplaying the role of devils advocate.

11
Reply
Len Firewood 2 months ago Matthew Lane
I don't know how much more explicit they would have to be unless you think the
Hilton Management is lying about all this!

6
garyonthenet 2 months ago Matthew Lane
I think others here are right, you just do not know american civil rights, or criminal
law.
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law.
Making a generalized statement of discontent, even rhetorically saying you wish
something bad would happen, that may be covered by free speech.
But when a threat is direct and violent and specific, that is absolutely not covered by
free speech protections. That is a crime pure and simple.

1
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John Davis 2 months ago Matthew Lane
Agree. i'd argue flinging the word "terrorist" around is exactly the kind of hysterical
baloney that this conference aims to dispel.


Reply
Sadman365 2 months ago Matthew Lane
Really? Terroristic threats are "freedom of speech"? Ok. I don't think you understand
the law then. Go ahead and call a school or a hotel or any public place and threaten
to kill civilians and see what happens to you.

6
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Incubus 2 months ago Matthew Lane
It's actually not considered freedom of speech under the law to make threats of
violence. And they did, in fact, call the hotel and threaten to kill people.

8
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Matthew Lane 2 months ago Incubus
Except no threats of violence were made. A threat must be communicated to the
intended target for the purpose of inciting fear. So if I say "fuck that Paul Elam is a
dick, I wish someone would kill him" that's not a threat. If I say "fuck that Paul Elam is
a dick, we should kill him" still not a threat.
Now if I contact Mr Elam himself & say "Paul Elam, I am going to murder you", now
you've got a threat.
Much like terrorism, these words have a legal definition.

3
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DestroyErase 2 months ago Matthew Lane
You're talking in circles and being intentionally dense. From Hilton's own account,
there were a number of explicit threats of violence towards Hilton staff and guests.
Using the definition of domestic terrorism you provided, they would be considered
domestic terrorists under the law.
Fuck your Feminism apologia.

12
Mark 2 months ago Matthew Lane
Did you read the letter? "The threats have escalated to include death threats,
physical violence against our staff and other guests as well as damage to the
property" - I mean, since we're learning of them second-hand, we're dependent here
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on knowing how the hotel management define "death threats" but I imagine they
mean threats of death, unless the hotel is exaggerating.

11
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EndlessWinter 2 months ago Mark
The letter is no longer available (unless you use a webcache of some variety),
reporting 403 Forbidden error. Anyone know why it's down (or rather, why internet
users have been blocked from accessing it, because if the file wasn't there it would
404 rather than 403 -- 403 means the user doesn't have permission to access)?


Reply
Incubus 2 months ago Matthew Lane
That is what they said. The article you're commenting on right now makes that very
clear.

3
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Matthew Lane 2 months ago Incubus
No it doesn't. Nothing in that raises to the level of threat.


Reply
Incubus 2 months ago Matthew Lane
"Regarding the International Conference on Men's Issues scheduled at our hotel, the
DoubleTree Suites by Hilton Detroit Downtown - Fort Shelby, we have received
numerous calls and threats and are concerned for the safety and well-being of our
employees, our guests and your attendees. The threats have escalated to include
death threats, physical violence against our staff and other guests as well as
damage to the property. The callers have indicated that they will be stationed within
the hotel as guests, which raises our level of concern."
You don't think that raises it to the level of a threat?
Even if it didn't, I'm fairly certain most criminal court judges would agree that warning
one might get "trigger happy" at an event one is protesting is very clearly a threat. I
guess we'll have to agree to disagree if you don't think so.

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Introspectre 2 months ago Incubus
People have been brought in for questioning, for less.

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Matthew Lane 2 months ago Introspectre
They were then let go without charge & the people who brought them in were told to
stop waste resources.


Matthew Lane 2 months ago Incubus
"Fort Shelby, we have received numerous calls and threats and are concerned for
the safety and well-being of our employees, our guests and your attendees."
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the safety and well-being of our employees, our guests and your attendees."
No, I think its fear mongering, but its not a threat. I mean so far they appear to be
"threatening" to pay to book rooms, oh the horror, who will think of the children.
"Even if it didn't, I'm fairly certain most criminal court judges would agree that
warning one might get "trigger happy" at an event one is protesting is very clearly a
threat."
An I can assure you, if you did a court judge would be more likely to fine you for
wasting his or her time.

1
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Incubus 2 months ago Matthew Lane
Somehow, I don't think you can assure me of any of those things.
I'm ready to start agreeing to disagree now.

8
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ForTheLulz 2 months ago Matthew Lane
If it's not a threat then why are they saying they were threatened? What kind of
douche are you to so harshly downplay formal informing of death threats? you won't
be happy until someone dies? Sound like a feminist hoping some random guy dies
just for having been present.

5
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Concise Noise Fractionale Ltd. 2 months ago Matthew Lane
I am so bedazzled by your contortionist act!! I've never seen someone's head so far
up his own ass to be able to smell his own larynx!!
Letter from hotel management: " ...threats have escalated to include death threats,
physical violence against our staff and other guests..."
Matthew Lane's brilliant assessment: " ....no threats of violence were made... Hotel
is over reacting and fear mongering... just shit talking here... just a bunch of kind
lassies having a polite disagreement with the MHRM's political stances, yup. DERP!"
Gee, I wonder how the legal expert Matthew Lane would handle the case if he took
the call?....
Lovely feminist darling: "If your hotel continues to host the men's rights conference
beginning on the 26th of this month, we will retaliate by killing and injuring many
people there... attendees, staff, guests... no one is exempt. Also, to make sure you
know we mean business, we will have plants renting out your rooms and walking
among the gathering."
Matthew Lane (L.D.): "Well, I guess you're entitled to your own opinion as is
protected under the First Amendment of our great Constitution! Bye bye and have a
good day, ma'am..... Oh, I forgot one thing: will you be requiring a king-sized bed?"

1
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Len Firewood 2 months ago Matthew Lane
Give it up Matthew saying black is white doesn't change the fact that black is black.

5
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Sadman365 2 months ago Matthew Lane
Just shut the fuck up

2
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garyonthenet 2 months ago Matthew Lane
Ok, well now you are just making phun.
You says it is, and we says it ain't.
Ok, you have lost any real credibility with this last comment here.


Reply
Guest 2 months ago Matthew Lane
Then it is surely meets the definition of terrorism.

3
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garyonthenet 2 months ago Matthew Lane
Making specific threats of violence, encouraging others to violence, shouting "a
BOMB" in a crowded theater.
These are not protected forms of free speech. They are crimes, under the imminent
risk of danger standard.

2
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Matthew Lane 2 months ago garyonthenet
Not its not legal, but talking about how someone should shout "fire" in a crowded
theatre is legally protected speech, right up until the second someone puts it into
action. No action has yet been taken & as such is still covered by freedom of
speech.


Reply
G Trieste 2 months ago Matthew Lane
Directing someone, or even encouraging it, might be a crime.
Direct incitement to violence.


Reply
Matthew Lane 2 months ago G Trieste
"Directing someone, or even encouraging it, might be a crime."
Sitting around talking shit on a facebook page is not directing anyone. It is covered
under freedom of speech. Seriously, for a country that has freedom of speech, its
citizenry is incredibly ignorant to what it does and does not cover.


Masculist Man 2 months ago Matthew Lane
You don't know shit,dude. Making threats is not covered by freedom of speech. If you
don't know American law then don't say you do.
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ALSO ON A VOICE FOR MEN
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don't know American law then don't say you do.

2
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Danny 20 days ago Matthew Lane
No, dude. It's called a Terrorist Threat and is very illegal.


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