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At the risk of sounding a bt highbrow: Do you know
Baudiltard's essay Kool Kller or the insurrection of
signs? Let me quote a small part: '(.) The
Sratft!?ts
ient further, in that they opposed pseudonyms rather
than Mmes to anonww' They are seeking not to
ascape the combinatory in order to regain an idiltity
(which is impossible in any case), but to tum indeter-
'minacy
against the system, to tum indetorminacy into
extermination.' To ctarify, making your pseudonym
famous, while wanting to remain anonymous and
invisibte, is the paradox of graffiti writing' What do you
think about that?
Ah! tknow Baudriltard, but ldon't exactly agroe with that
vision, it's a bit oversimplified, in the field of urban
protest, I rarely agroe with the more or less stereotyped
essays or analyses wriften by sociologists about graffiti
anryay. But to answer your question, I'l! say that if there
realty is a paradox, it's not characteristic of graffiti' I think
it's ihe paradox related to every pseudonym. Why have
a pseudonym for something else than hiding an identity
you want to preserve from the consoquences of a
'certain
activity, most likely an illegal or marginal one, in
aid of another activity
you would want to be subiect to
fame, or at least distinguished
gratitude? I don't
necessarity enioy haing a pseudonym. I rather see that
as an oppoftunity to pick a name and some letters' But
having ono or several ones can also lead ta a psycho-
togical condition of dual porsonality, if not worse. lt's a
kind of schizoprenia; like an actor, for example. Except
that in his case, each new character has a limited life
span. lt onty tives during the time of the shooting or the
performance. Wen it comes to graffiti, it's different
because it's not the same time limit. You chose a new
name and it comes alive forever the first time you paint
it. And this is confirmed by the moing madiums that are
subways and trains. As soon at it stafts moving, the
name comes alive and becomes independent. Then it
disappeArs, goas to meet new people, new horZons,
new adventures.
Paranoia and schizophrqia: How can you live with
sevenl PsaudonYms,
and whY?
Everyone knows why. And what appeared to be
parinoia to some poople recently tumed out to actyally
'be
carefulness, forestatling, and common sense, "How'
is another story, because evontually pseudonyms and
made-up alter 6goes increasingly bacoma paft of your
main life. Until you sometimes ask yourself who's in
charge, kinda tike in Fight Club! But let's not go too far'
t don't feel like l'm spending my life hiding' l'm protecting
myself. Why several names? To cover my tracks, and
atso to avoid dullness and being trapped in a specifia
letter combination. To work on difforent letters or letter
sequences like everyone else, I guess. And to approach
new styles without corrupting yourself as well' Those
differmt names can also stand for various facets of
one's self, or even for fullfledged individuals' lt's
amuses me to imagine or even notice that some
personalities change depending on the name, without
even taking styles into ansideration. The magic of
ubiqu$ oporates with the help of those identity'shifts,
those multiplications. t have a special attachment to this
phenomenon. For that mattar, I treat that subiect'
among others, in a book l'm currontly witing' Putting
your name on disptay everyvvhere, a chosen name,
several names'it eventually refers to tha same uniquo
person, so that your own self is present averwhere at
the same time. How to multiply? Or why? Probably to
defeat the fatatism of lonetiness and baing imprisoned in
the social status of a useless and forgotten pawn.
lJbiquity: Attompting to be everwheie at once, and.
unideniifiable. Wy the choice of going elsewhere, and
how is it possible to be overywhere at the same time? ls
it a practice of anqueing?
Ah yes, why? Concerning, the travels, I believe mine is
the same motivation as everyone elsa's: Novelty,
diversity, to see new places, new people, other cuftures,
taste difforent food and different products. The
adventure, the unknown, and of course painting new
subway and train models. But the other quostion is a
more canceptual
question. The image of travel. Why
should I give lffe to facets of myself if it is to make them
go away, in a mission of freedom, of getting some air. A
conquest? No, not at all. I don't think of travels with a
feeting of appropriation in mind, au contraire,
What is the imporlance of contacts during an lnterrail
trip?
First, it's the fun of moeting people who share the same
passion with me. Having the opportunity to exchange
paints of iew among different cultures, having the
opportunity to paint together, for the experience, the
memories, the graphic attraction, etc. Now I sometimes
enjoy coming back to a city more for the people I know
there than for the painting. Even if they go hand in hand
most of the time. I never
practiced the commando
tntenail like somo do, with a precisaly set list of targets'
and considering the hosts like tour guides' I sae it more
like an undefined adventure. This made me meet
unexpected
people, or end up sleeping alone outside in
a new city to go bomb a yard. But after several nights
spent that way and hours, even days on trains, you
definitely enjoy the hospitalry of your contacts. ln time' I
would rather call them mY friends.
Are you among the people who paint at all costs, no
matter how it's done or how long the checking and
painting is going to take, and who refuse to come back
empty-handed?
Obviously, most ot the time the preliminary phase takes
a long time. But it is essential. I love that phase. lt's a
phase of apprehension, of obiective analysis, of doubt.
And you love your piece even more aftervvards, when
you know you spent hours in the ald or in the rain,
waiting and having doubts! But sometimas (most of the
time) that phase is not enough, and a last moment of
uncertainty remains. You have to find enough
motivation, switch into action mode, where there's no
altemative,
just one goal. During a ceftain period of time,
I couldn't even imagine leaving a spot or even a cW
without doing what lwas there for. Failure or resignation
was not an option, avan if I had to run' And when I was
in that state of mind, nothing was unraachable
Sometimes
you nead this motivation, espocially when
the difficuw level is high' Or else as soon as the first
obstacle comes, you give up' using it as a prebrt b hide
your fear or your lack of bravery. But let's not exaggerate
things. lt all comes back to the famous question: ls the
juice worth the squeeze? We all asked oursefues that
question once. Am I ready to pay full price: Getting beat
up, getting fined or going to
iail.
All that
iust
to have one
more little picture, or to brag about this or that new train
model you have. Actually, I think it's a different question
each time, depending on the circumstances, depending
on the people. You have to weigh the pros and cons, be
fully conscious, and if you're going, you have to know
the risks and know what you have to win, and more
importantly what
You
have to lose.
ls taking a good picture of a piece also part of the
accomplishment?
/t's definitely
gradually turning into a big
accomplighment. Probably like many people, I wasted
hours, even days, hoping to get at loast a picture in
traffic. Sometimes it's the only picture, and most of the
time it's an unsuccessful attempt' But I love
photography. I take a lot of pictures' So I like the hunt,
the chase. You have to get the right place, the right time'
atc. I don't aasily give up. lt's too much of a pain in the
ass when you have a bad picture of a pixe' or even no
picture at alt. L-ater you forget about it, but on the fly you
feet tike it was a big fuss for nothing. You can seek
comfotl by salng to yoursolf that you're not doing it for
the pic, and that onty the memoies will remain in the
eni. But you still have a tittle feeling of failure, of defeat'
you feel like the mission wasn't completed. To me, it's all
-about
the winning trio theory: The train model (color'
shape, city, line); the quality of the piece; and the qyality
of the picture. Succeeding in all those fields i$
uncommon. tt's the ultimate
purpose, but there often is
a problem at some point. What is a good picture? Truly.,
the question can be asked. Actually,
you could think rt is
a picture with a clear shot of the piece, by day, fulliace'
bright tights, without anything hiding it. That's already
something, and I would have loved to have at least that
every tima! lfind a picture beautiful if it's lively' ff you can
see tho train in its context, its environment, even at
night-a station, a stop, a tunnel' a landscape or people,
eien if it's at the expense of the details in the piece' That
way, its reason for existence kicks in, and it blends into
an essential whole.
What can one think about the system collectors? Acting
like war aviators, they put a cross on the fuselage every
time they shoot down an enemy, and the quality of their
piace doesn't reallY matter
'Hahaha!
Let's not
go there. To pull myself out of this' l'll
just say that everyone does what he wants. There are no
'rules
in graffiti, and it's that particular freedom that
makes it-enioyable. lf you want to collect every subway
in Europe or in the world' why not? After all' that
intention is like evety other. Basides, it makes you travel
and builds you up! The question that might come to
mind, is "what now?" I have to admit that I'm always
attracted by models I have yot to paint, obviously'
Especially if I tike the shape and colors. The cW is also
importantit doesn't matter whether it's a subway or a
commuter. People have to stop sanctifying subways'
There are cities where suburban trains and subways are
equally beautifut, if not more (especially when you see
new iubways). But anway, I don't see it as a hunting
trophy or a prize, more liko encounters, adventures' As
foi th'e crosses, where am I supposed to do that? I don't
have a portfolio, neither do I have an airplane!
Concerning the qual$ of the piece, it's
iust
a matter of
subjectivity. Some may find a 1'minute piece way botter
than a 3}-minute piece, lt's even frequent. No need to
add many things to make it cool. But since you mention
it, I wilt be a liftle more citical, regarding the standardi'
zation of styles. Especially for the stuff you see on
subways. Okay, because
yau don't have much time' you
go straight to ihe point: 2 colors for the filling, a very dark
Zutline most often, a background, a second outline if it's
possible, highlights and there you go-but nobody gives
'a
damn abAd the letters! As basic as possible, kinda
soft, or even improved bubble letters. Most of the time it
works, true, but eventualty it gets boring. And obviously
in that case, you appreciate the peiormance more than
the finat work. Maybe this is a little simplistic' I love
seeing newer, more personal stuff, even if it doesn't look
so good.
Are you an 'ignorant afi' fan, or do you see it as a
regression?
Tiat's a vast subiect! I can't reatly take position on the
whote thing. Actually, I dont really get the crrteria and
the limits of what we call "ignorant arI.' ! think that
concept is a bit too simpla and peiorative, even if there's
a sonse of irony in the expression. But I seo what you're
talking about. lt would be more like'original
graffiti" or
'gheio art' or even raw, simple, naive graffiti, lt's hard to
ilassify things anyvvay, Beside, who caresl ls it a
regression? I don't think so. Except if evaryone were
doing it. Because everyone does what he wants, there
are no rules, no forced style. Diversity is always a
valuable resource. But as always, the main citerion is
authenticv. lf it's sincare, then why not? The names
coming to my mind are the ERS, RNB, VOL from
Barceiona, uT in Bertin, 1003PV in Lisbon, etc' But you
still can ask yourseff: Whera is it going to stop? Because
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