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D = Detective Jerry A. JOHNSON

D: This is Detective Jerry JOHNSON. The date is November 5
, 2013, and the time is
9:21 a.m. This is an interview related to case 13-54055. And Im at Overlake Hospital in
the parking lot in my car with Daniel J. STRYCHARSKE.


D: Okay. And Im gonna spell that. Its S-T-R-A-Y-C-H-A-R-S-K-E.

S: Wait. Theres an A?

D: Okay.

S: If you have A-Y, thats wrong.

D: Okay, so how about this? You spell. Would you just give me your full name and date of
birth and spell your last name.

S: Yeah, yeah. Full name, Daniel James STRYCHARSKE. Last name, S-T-R-Y-C-H-A-R-S-
K-E. Date of birth, April 6
, 1986.

D: And do you go by Daniel or Dan?

S: Dan.

D: And, Dan, where do you currently live at?

S: I currently live at 4505 148
Avenue NE, Apartment KK-202, Bellevue, Washington

D: And how long have you lived at that apartment?

S: Since March.

D: And are you the leasee of that apartment?

S: I am.

D: And but you have people that are currently either living with you or staying with you, is

S: I have, I have two other people staying with me. One is more of a permanent occupant.

D: Okay. And who would, who are the people that are staying with you currently, and if you
can tell me how, what their status is then of


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S: Yeah.

D: Occupancy.

S: Jesse D. KAPLAN. He is essentially my roommate but he is not on the lease but he is
considered an occupant. David Richard SCHULTZ the second. He is a business partner
and he has been at the apartment for, perhaps a month or a little bit more than that. He
owns a residence in the southern part of the State, so he usually springboards back there,
and then, comes and stays with me for a bit

D: And how long has Jesse been staying there?

S: Since April.

D: Okay. Is that your move-in time?

S: My move-in time was in March. He was in a different apartment for a small overlap period
at the end there, so he finished out his lease term at a different apartment complex, and
then, moved in the end of April.

D: Okay. And your cell phone is 304-279-9135?

S: That is correct.

D: And what do you do for a living?

S: I am a computer programmer.

D: And how about Jesse, what is he doing?

S: He is a software developer, engineer and test, an _____ at Microsoft.

D: Okay. And David?

S: He is a, he has his own personal investments and businesses. So, hes an entrepreneur
or however you want to say that.

D: Okay. Does David SCHULTZ go by Richie?

S: He goes By Richie Rich usually.

D: Okay.

S: Yes.

D: Is he rich?

S: [laughs] I guess. [laughs]


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D: Is he? Okay. Alright. So, tell me a little bit about the layout of your apartment.

S: The layout of my apartment, the, upon coming into my apartment, theres an open space
that extends about 10 feet into the room, maybe 12 feet. This consists of the living room
on the left side and the dining room on the right side, going Theres nowhere for it to go
except patio door on the left side which then leads out of the apartment complex, the
apartment on that side of the wall. Going to the dining room, on the right side still, as you
continue into the apartment, youll come into the kitchen. That is a through-way kitchen
and that goes right into the bathroom door and into the bathroom. Going past the kitchen,
but before the bathroom, taking a left, theres a hallway that then leads to the two
bedrooms. The guest bedroom on, in, straight in front, and the master bedroom on the
right side, and the master bedroom is connected to the bathroom.

D: So, the apartment has only one bathroom that can be used by two entrances to the

S: Two entrances to the bathroom.

D: Okay.

S: Public and one private in the master bedroom.

D: And you were nice enough to help me out with the diagram of your apartment here while
you were

S: Uh-huh.

D: After your initial consultation with medical staff here, so I appreciate that.

S: Uh-huh.

D: And you drew, do you recall drawing this diagram for me.

S: I do.

D: And you indicated on the diagram that you primarily use the guest bedroom.

S: I, in fact, one hundred percent, use the guest bedroom as my bedroom.

D: And Im thinking thats, usually as a guest bedroom, its usually a smaller bedroom than
the master?

S: It is slightly smaller, yes, uh-huh.

D: Alright. Who, who normally is assigned to the master bedroom then?

S: Jesse has his stuff in the master bedroom.


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D: Okay. And that would be like his normal personal property.

S: You could say thats his, yeah.

D: Or beds and the like

S: Yeah, you could say thats his room.

D: Okay.

S: But, really, he stopped, he stopped using it for the last, like month or two, primarily
because the mold problem, and so, has been sleeping in the living room.

D: Okay. And would it be fair to say that the master bedroom is a corner bedroom and has
two windows in them?

S: Corner bedroom with two windows, one large window that opens, and another smaller
window that is sealed and unopenable.

D: Okay. And do you have like aso, youre on the second floor but it sounds like, from our
conversation here at the hospital, that the building is situated kind of in a hillside.

S: That is correct.

D: To where

S: The second level is actually at ground level.

D: Okay.

S: On my side of the building.

D: Okay. So, it would vary though.

S: But as you then go to the other side of the building, you go down

D: Okay.

S: Steeply to the point where there are two apartment units on the first floor. And theyre also
at ground level, so theres a hill that were on.

D: Okay, perfect. So, how do you, how do you know Jesse then?

S: I mean Jesse and I have been friends for, since 2009. We were together at a place called
Airtight Games.

D: Currently?


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S: Not currently, no, no. We worked there in 2009 for about a year. We worked together as
testers. And then, after that initial meeting and, and working together, weve just stayed
friends ever since.

D: And how long have you been in Washington State?

S: Um

D: Approximately.

S: Approximately since 2004, minus two years.

D: Your phone number is a West Virginia area code?

S: That is a West Virginia area code __...

D: Is that where youre born and raised?

S: No.

D: Okay.

S: I was born and raised in Wisconsin.

D: Okay.

S: My parents and family, for the most part, lived in West Virginia.

D: Alright. Thank you for doing the background with me on this. So, now, were gonna talk
about this morning.

S: Uh-huh.

D: And just, Ill probably interrupt to seek clarification on some things.

S: Okay.

D: But youre very articulate in terms of describing things for me, so just, I would like to either
go step by step if you canand hows the temperature doing in here? Is it good?

S: Were good.

D: Okay. Let me know if it gets too hot or if you want warmer, okay?

S: Okay.


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D: Alright. So, wont you go ahead and tell me about what happened this morning and how
you came to be at Overlake Hospital.

S: Okay. I guess, to begin, I found myself waking up this morning to falling debris and pieces
of wood to me where the apartment above me is coming down on me. The moment I
completely realized that this is what was happening, I bolted out of my room and not
through the door. I ended up going out through the wall because the, the way I was
seeing it at that moment, the apartment on top of me was coming down. The wall had
blown out from the apartment coming down and there was a clear exit for me. I literally
just got up and started running and realized I was outside of the apartment. At that
moment, I turned around and began to just see if, what has happened to Jesse and
Richard. At that point, that was when it seemed to me that the fire began, was at that
moment right then because there was no, there was no flames and, and fire before that.
And then, as soon as I started yelling for Jesse, I saw him beginning to come through the
debris, and he was like, Where was I? Was I in my room or the living room? Like he
didnt actually even know at that point. He was disoriented. I, and then, at that point, we
both were thinking about Richard, and that was when we started to see the fire. About 10
seconds, 15 seconds later, theres, a person approaches us through the debris, and its
Richard, and he is burned pretty badly, on his arms especially. Jesse seemed to be
maybe singed a little bit, but otherwise, he was looking physically okay. Obviously, Im no
doctor, so but he was talking. We were on our feet. Richard eventually had to sit down
and he was taken to the hospital by a private individual who was helping out at that

D: Okay. So, youre in bed, asleep when this whole situation occurs.

S: Right, correct.

D: And I noticed in the hospital and I noticed it when youre looking at your diagram here that
you must wear some type of eyeglasses cause you have a hard time seeing close up.

S: Right. I definitely do wear eyeglasses. I also have contact lenses, all of those missing
now, so

D: Okay.

S: Right now, my vision is at a, about a less than one foot excellent focal visibility.

D: Okay. So, you wake up to

S: Chaos.

D: Okay. Can you differentiate it between hearing an explosion or just feelingI think you
mentioned the term pressure.

S: Right.

D: And debris.


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S: I, I, I guess I cant differentiate it because of the speed with which it happened and the
quickness with which I removed myself from it.

D: Okay.

S: It, definitely, there was like a weird point where I dont, again, I dont know if it was
disorientation or whatnot but there was perhaps one point where, as I was like crawling, I,
I, I maybe thought it was like hot. But then, I quickly was outside, and that was quickly
dispelled, so Im, you know, Im not sure what that leads to, but that was the only other
thing that I could, in a sense, recollect.

D: You have a wood, a window in your guest bedroom. Do you know along what direction
that wall is?

S: I, it is mostly east-facing.

D: Okay.

S: If Im not mistaken.

D: So, to help me clarify for the recorder, which is hard to do sometimes

S: Uh-huh.

D: Your laying in bed, you wake up to an event that is occurring immediately that caused you
to wake up.

S: Yup.

D: That includes the things that youve talked about which includes debris. It includes that,
the wall, your east wall then. Well just call it east wall.

S: Yeah.

D: That has the window. Has a hole in it or its

S: It seemed to, like it had

D: Its an opening at some sort

S: Theres a, there is now an opening and that, upon looking backso, obviously, things
were falling behind me, so I cant know if part of that was the wall afterwards but I had no

D: Okay. You

S: Outside of the things that where I was crawling over.


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D: Okay.

S: I had no resistance of a, of being able to crawl through my east wall, so.

D: Okay.

S: There was a hole or it had fallen down or had been shaken and crushed.

D: Okay.

S: Through this event.

D: So, what were you wearing then at the time that you escaped from your bedroom through
your east wall?

S: I was wearing a, a pair of pajama pants that are baggy and I was wearing a simple, plain
white T and nothing else.

D: Okay. Youre barefooted?

S: No socks, no underwear. No head gear of any kind.

D: No footwear?

S: No footwear.

D: So, you crawl out of your east wall outside your apartment and you turn around and look
at your building.

S: And I see

D: But now, can you see fairly decently then when things area way from you? And how far
are you from your building when youre making observations, approximately?

S: Okay. So, lets see. I am approximately 20 to 30 feet away.

D: Okay.

S: When making observations and looking back at it.

D: So, youre trying toand I dont want to put words in your mouth but are you trying to get
your mind about what the heck just happened and why am I crawling out of my wall?

S: Yeah. I, definitely, thats likethe crawling out was just like

D: Instinctive?


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S: Survival instinct.

D: Okay.

S: The moment I realized Im out, Im in a place. I went like, at first I thought it was a dream,
to be perfectly honest with you. I thought it was a dream at first and it was just chaotic and
I would wake up soon. When I realized I wasnt going to be waking up cause this was
real, I then realized that I was in the lawn in front of the LL building, which is the building
right next to mine. So, Im near the, theres a tree right out front and the carport. Im
basically between those two and Ive now gotten my head around the fact that this is real
and I just crawled out of my apartment and, in a way, I should not have been able to do.

D: Okay.

S: And then, I turned around and looked back and..

D: And what do you see?

S: I see the corner of the top apartment has bowed down now.

D: Okay.

S: At this point, probably four feet.

D: Over the corner of your master bedroom.

S: Over the corner of the master bedroom at that point.

D: Youre

S: Upon now looking back, it is clear the entire, either through this or some other mechanism,
the walls were, were down at that point. And, and

D: In 202.

S: In KK-202.

D: Which didnt provide support to the apartment above.

S: Above it, right. And so, at this point

D: And what else did you see?

S: Im looking into my apartment and Im basically looking like the wall of my closet, sodo
you have that picture still?

D: I do, I do.


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S: Theres on the, on the far side across from the window.

D: Here it had been

S: Of my room. Theres a closet.

D: Okay.

S: This wall, that closet wall was still intact.

D: So, its a closet along that would be along the hallway?

S: It

D: Side of your room?

S: Yeah. In my room, along the hallway closet. And then, that wall, the one that divides the
closet in the hallway, was definitely still there.

D: How about can you see into the master bedroom?

S: I could see into the master bedroom at that point most definitely. It looked like some of the
wall between my room and the master bedroom was still intact as well but, at that point, it
was, there, there was just a lot of debris flying around. I mean a lot of smoke and debris
and ashes and, and particles, sorry. Thats what I mean. Particles of stuff.

D: Okay.

S: Just kind of everywhere.

D: In the air.

S: Yeah.

D: In the air and on the ground?

S: In the air and on the ground. And then, at that point, that was when Im making these
observations and I am yelling and screaming my roommates name at the top of my lungs,
like, Jesse, Jesse, Jesse, cause Im thinking he might be dead.

D: Sure.

S: Like Ive barely got out of there kind of thing, like fuck. And so, I

D: Where did you see him come out of?

S: He comes out of essentially, like theI dont know exactly where he came out of because
when I, because I turned around, just sort of like, Help, like trying to see like


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D: Uh-huh.

S: Just tried to assess things somehow. By the time I turned back, he was already just
outside of the apartment, walking through the rubble like I had. He didnt go through the
front door either, right. So, hesand then, hes like then walking like towards me. I ran
to him and I helped him out. Hes okay but hes totally shaken up.

D: So, does is he coming out a wall?

S: I dontlike he is coming out the same east wall basically.

D: Okay.

S: So, the, the, like

D: Alright.

S: Say the east wall of the building, I dont know exactly where at what point he came from
but hes coming to me from the east, through the east wall.

D: You know, one of the things I forgot to do, since its, we have a recording going on, Ive
been holding the recorder, and I told you that, about the microphone and stuff, is it okay
that we record our interview today?

S: Oh, absolutely. Yes.

D: Okay.

S: Yeah, yeah.

D: Ive been holding the recorder here while were talking in my car, so I just, I forgot to put it
on the...

S: Huh.

D: Like the official record.

S: Yeah.

D: In the State of Washington, when somebodys recording your voice, you should get a
verbal acknowledgement from them. So, sorry. Im a little late but

S: Thats totally fine. I guess I, we had agreed upon that earlier, so.

D: Right. Okay, so when Jesse comes out, do you, is he disheveled or is he

S: Hes in his boxers. Nothing but his boxers.


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D: Okay.

S: [laughs] He, um, uh

D: Any injuries that you can overtly see that you were cognizant of or maybe

S: I, Im like, I, I went up and was like grabbing him by like the shoulders and whatnot and I
just, uh, he, he felt like he definitely had some, like he was pure skin. You know, he had
boxers on, so he had stuff. Like I dont know if it was like embedded in him or, or whatnot
but I was like brushing stuff off of him and I dont know how bad his injuries were.

D: Okay.

S: But he mentioned later that he was gonna go to the hospital with Richie because he
wasnt sure if he might have burn injuries as well or not.

D: Okay.

S: So

D: So, lets, lets clarify this for the record.

S: Uh-huh.

D: In terms of things being embedded or being on him

S: I dont know.

D: Would he

S: I would say they were on him because I was brushing them off of him. So, like as I was
holding him, I was just kind of like brushing.

D: Okay.

S: And, and that was about it really, so.

D: Did you see anything with hisso, Im always careful not to put words in peoples mouths
but in terms of overt injuries, it sounds like you didnt observe anything overtly.

S: Right.

D: Was there anything like anything on his face or

S: Um

D: Keeping in mind that you cant see when youre close up, so.


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S: Right. I mean like that, thats the thing. Like I, I wouldnt feel comfortable saying anything
about that.

D: Okay.

S: Because at that moment, like I, I couldnt actually see. It was very, it was also dusk or
dawn, I guess but, but it was not, it was pre-dawn at that point. You know, like

D: So, talk about that for just a second.

S: Okay.

D: So, whathow dark is it there?

S: Its like the sun is, its still the very dark-blue nature of the sky.

D: Okay.

S: You can tell the lights coming up in that, actually in the next like 30 minutes, were gonna
be having light.

D: Okay.

S: But at that moment, its like that pure, pre-dawn where visibility is very difficult and low
from low light. I, I dont know exactly when this occurred but I do know that after I ran out
and after wed assessed ourselves for a second, and we realized Richie needed to get to
the hospital. I asked

D: Before, before you do that

S: Okay.

D: Im sorry. And I, I warned you Id interrupt.

S: Yup.

D: So, in your mind, Jesse does not need any overt medical attention at that particular point.
Youre still assessing each other.

S: Right, right. Were still assessing each other.

D: And you

S: I know I can feel myself. I feel good and I feel like Im, Im pretty injuredly, injuredless.

D: Okay.


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S: With Jesse, I looked at him and I tell he was, whatever closer.

D: Okay.

S: To whatever it was. I can tell that he had a bigger impact than I had.

D: Okay.

S: However, it looked like he was on his feet. He was talking, he was breathing. No overt
injuries, though I can tell hes more shaken up than I am.

D: Alright.

S: Right.

D: But you still dont know where David is.

S: We still do not know where David

D: When did

S: Richard is, right.

D: And, and so, what do you want to call him? Do you want to call him Richard or David?

S: Richard.

D: Okay.

S: Richard would be easier.

D: So, well tell, well call David Richard SHULTZ II, well be calling him Richard from now

S: Yes.

D: So, when does Richard come out of the apartment and what does he look like when he
comes out?

S: Hes a mess. And thats aboutand thats also after the fire has started as well.

D: Okay. So, what

S: So

D: Give me a timeframe on what

S: So


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D: What happened when

S: Jesse comes out.

D: Okay.

S: I assess with him 10 seconds, 20 seconds, 30 seconds, probably later.

D: Uh-huh.

S: Were both at that point then, Wheres Richie at? Were both, you know, we both see
and look that a fire is starting. I

D: Where?

S: Uh Essentially, it looks, its, its definitely coming from my apartment at that point.

D: Okay.

S: Um

D: Any particular area?

S: I, thats, thats where its, its now trying to place it, just because of all theId say like, Id
say the kitchen. Like the, the, like where the dishwasher was in the kitchen, which is, you
know. So

D: Okay.

S: So, yes. I would say it came from

D: So, then

S: It started from the kitchen.

D: So, now, Richard comes out.

S: So, now

D: Whats he dressed in?

S: Then, at that point, were, yeah, were scream for Richard. We see a body coming, a
shape coming through but hes not responding to us, so we, we get close enough to him
and we start to pull him out, and he, he has clear burns like all over his skin.

D: Okay.


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S: Like on his, sorry, on his hands. Not all over his skin. On his hands.

D: Is he a black male?

S: He is, um, not black but he, I believe he is a mixed Native American, Caucasian.

D: Okay.

S: So, he, it looks like his hands got, got jacked pretty bad.

D: Okay.

S: Like it definitely looks like his, his stuff got messed up.

D: Is he

S: And it looks like

D: Is he coming out of the holes that you guys were coming out off, had come of?

S: It, it, it looked to me like Jesse and Richie, Richard came from the same spot.

D: Okay.

S: So, yeah. Like wherever exactly that was, it was somewhere coming through the east wall

D: Alright.

S: The door was not being utilized at that point.

D: And so, what was being said now to Richie, Richard?

S: Um, atwell, at that point, Richards just like, just like he basically literally is like shit. Like
the skin is melting off my hand. I looked at it and I can see that, yeah, theres a piece of
his hand is beginning to peel away pretty badly.

D: And youre talking about his right hand?

S: Um, my ride side, so his left hand actually.

D: Okay.

S: Uh-huh. And it looked, it looked actually like both hands were, were in pretty bad shape.

D: Clearly, it need medical attention.


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S: It clearly needed medical attention, and that was where, that was when like there was a
gentleman who had come out from the LL Building whos clearly obviously saw what was
going on and looked at Richard, was like just got his keys and everything. It was just like,
Get in here because you need it now. Like, The ambulance are gonna take time. You
need to get to the hospital right this second. So, hes, I dont know that gentlemans
name or any of his information.

D: He, he took Richard to the hospital?

S: He, Richard and Jesse both. Jesse accompanied Richard because also, at the same
time, he was saying, Im actually kind of feeling like I should get checked out. Like, right.
So, he took a precaution for himself. Richard definitely needed it, and I was staying
behind so that I could just, Im the one on the lease.

D: Okay.

S: I figured I needed to be there at that point.

D: Okay.

S: But, and

D: Did they say, did anybody, did Jesse or Richard say anything about what had happened?

S: No, no. Like neither one of us. Or, or I thinkuh, give, give me a second to try to like, uh,
remember exactly what was said during the, that moment.

D: Cause sometimes I think with roommates, youd go, What the hell just happened?

S: Right. I mean no, that, that was, that was definitelybut well, to be perfectly honest, my
first thought was, Holy shit! The dry rot and the mold and everything. But just, weve
been worried about the structure.

D: Okay.

S: And the safety and that the health, and our personal health and the hazards of the
building. Weve been worried about that. Those are some of the things wed brought to
the apartments attention. So, that was in my initial instinct, right. Then, when of course,
when I see the fire go up and I hear the, the remaining cans of butane that are in my
apartment pop off, thats when I, I start to think I cant believe it would have been anything
that had gone wrong in that process but its a possibility, you know.

D: Okay.

S: So, like thats, thats the part where I was thinking that I dont, I dont recall a, I dont think
we said anything to each other outside of like, What the hell was that? What, whats
going on, cause Richies basically in shock.


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D: The medical, medical issues need to be addressed.

S: Right. And, and, and so, we were, we were just like weve got to do that. And Im running
to the LL Building and Im pounding on everybodys door like, Wake up, wake up, wake
up, fire. Like I woke everybody up in that building, got them up and out cause

D: Are they that close to you?

S: It, the thing is it looked like the, it looked like the flames were, were going to be potentially
encroaching on those. Theres, um, where my patio is, theres a small hill, and then,
bushes and the, and the building. So, its like its 5 feet.

D: Oh.

S: Like Im thinking no need to be taking stupid, no need to not tell everybody because
something clearly happened in this building and it is going up in flames. Everybody
around here needs to know that right now. So, I woke everybody up in the LL Building.
And then, and in doing that, yeah

D: This is four apartments?

S: Uh, the LL Building has one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eighttechnically, it has ten
but I only reached eight. I only, because at that point I noticed that the whole, everybody
was waking up on all around, all around us.

D: Okay.

S: All the buildings around us were waking up, so.

D: So, lets talk about then the, the butane canisters and stuff.

S: Uh-huh.

D: Tell me, tell me whats going on with what iswell, let, lets just get, before we get into
that, lets get this issue of mold and stuff in your master bedroom

S: Oh.

D: Out of the way here. So, theres been an issue in your apartment related to mold in the
master bedroom?

S: Uh, mold throughout the apartment but very much the master bedroom is the, the big spot.

D: And that has been something that youve been dealing with the apartment management?

S: Yup. Not only of the direct Hampton Greens management but also Riverstone Residence
who is the owning, the property owner, the managing owner.


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D: Okay. And through, along with the mold issue, youve had conversations with
management about a marijuana extraction.

S: That is correct.

D: Issue or

S: Uh-huh.

D: Process.

S: A process thats going on.

D: Practise.

S: Uh-huh.

D: Okay. So, tell me about, tell me about that.

S: Okay.

D: The marijuana extraction process thats going on in your, in your apartment.

S: Okay. Um, to give it a more specific name, its a hash oil butane extraction.

D: Okay.

S: Um, to just give a quick overview of the, the general process

D: Perfect.

S: You take cannabis material, you stuff it into a glass tube. You seal the open end of that
glass tube with a micron filter so that it filters certain, to a certain width. And then, at that
point, the tube is set up such as a can of butane can be pushed through it and it, it actually
takes the butane from gaseous form to liquid form. And the liquid butane then runs
through the cannabis, extracting the THC.

D: By gravity? By gravity?

S: By gravity.

D: Yeah.

S: Yeah. By, by gravity and pressure at that point but mostly the gravity helps a lot. And
then, at that point, the, the butane liquid is extracting the THC and CBD oils out of the, out
of the, the cannabis material.

D: And where do the oils go then?


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S: That then goes into a glass container or glass jar of some kind. The butane, and that
chamber can be put through a vacuuming process to stretch out and to more quickly
remove the butane that is still contained within the oil. Once this process is completed,
you have hash oil but the THC or CBD content of

D: CBD meaning?

S: Cannabinoids.

D: Okay.

S: Its a difficult word to say but its a, the CBDs are definitely the more of the, um, pain
reliever aspect, and the THC is more of the, the, the, like head high in that kind of
medicinal effect. So, its two different types of medicine at that point if, if you wanted THC
or CBD, all done through the same process though. At this point, that, that is, thats all
that the butane ends up being used for, the shot-through a tube. And then, at that point,
theres no, there are no flames and there are no ignition sources.

D: How big, how big of a container is the, are, is the butane in?

S: The butane is in a slightly bigger than a 12-ounch can, so I would say 14 or 16 ounces.

D: So, is it poured into the tube over the canabis or just squeezed in?

S: No. The way its, its, it is definitely a, its a pressurized, um, can.

D: Okay.

S: And it has a knob on the top, such that when you push down on the knob a little bit, theres
a hole in the middle of that knob, and thats where the, the gas shoots out of it The glass
tube is set up in such a way that it kind of has like a nipple at the end that then this knub
goes into.

D: Okay.

S: And as you push the can into it, shhhhhh (sound)

D: Okay.

S: The, the pressure inside or the pressure differential inside versus outside create, makes
the gas go immediately to a liquid. And then, it runs through and extracts out, um

D: And where does the liquid thenso, the liquid from the butane

S: And the THC and, and cannabis material

D: Is all, is mixed.


Page 21 of 45

S: Is altogether mixed at that point, and thats why

D: Thats at the bottom of the glass tube?

S: Right, through the screen that you put on there.

D: Okay.

S: That filters out. That makes sure you dont get any of the actual plant matter and whatnot.

D: Okay.

S: And then, you also can screen it to a particular level that you want. And then, that can be
for a different medicinal, medical reasons as far as like, um, how much THC, how much
CBD, et cetera.

D: Okay. So

S: That, that, all of that is a liquid form in the bottom. In, in like a glass, um, container of
some kind.

D: And then, the oil and the butane oil

S: The butane liquid at that point.

D: Butane liquid and the oil are combined. And how do you separate those two?

S: So, the, thats where the vacuuming process and evaporation comes into it. The
evaporation can occur naturally but its normally put through a vacuum. What the vacuum
does is it stretches out the air, thus pulling the oil apart and allowing more of the butane to,
to, to get out from the, the molecular structure of that oil.

D: So, is, is the glass that the butane liquid and the marijuana oil drops into, is that a kind of a
beaker that then can, a vacuum system can be attached to it then or

S: Um, right. It, it ends up being a, a, um, well, its actually more of a flat dish then, as that
gets to a certain point, cause it fairly quickly actually gets to a point of being malleable as
opposed to a liquid. So, then, what itthen, its scraped off and put onto parchment
paper. And then, the parchment paper is put into a vacuum tank. So there, so there,
there are two pieces of glass here. The one thats, when it comes down onto first initially
as a liquid.

D: Okay.

S: Very quickly, like within, I dont know, 20 minutes, it will become malleable. It is such that
you could like scrape it with something. And then, that gets put on to parchment. It will
get scraped out and put on the parchment paper. And thats when it goes in the vacuum


Page 22 of 45
chamber because the parchment paper is easier to work with inside of the vacuum

D: Okay.

S: So, the vacuum chamber is a, a cylindrical glass jar. Parchment paper goes into it. And
then, the seal top goes on. And then, the, the vacuum pump is turned on.

D: So, is this a kit?

S: Its not a kit. It is, uh, lab equipment thats

D: Okay.

S: So, so, this was not something that like all came together as one unit that was like sold.

D: Okay. So, is it something thatso, who, who developed the, the process and the

S: Richard.

D: And hes only been there for a few months.

S: Uh-huh.

D: So, did he bring that in with him or did he develop the process ?

S: Uh, he brought it in. He brought that to us. In a sense, its like we met at, at hemp fest.
And so, the, that was where the topic came up. And then, he showed us. And that was
where we were interested in it and wanted to, for, you know, to see it further basically.

D: Okay. So, the equipment belongs to Richard.

S: Um-huh.

D: And where was the equipment set up then to do the processing?

S: The dining room.

D: Okay. And so, the butane canisters, how many do you think were in your apartment
before the ex, the incident this morning?

S: Ten, a dozen maybe.

D: And how much marijuana was in there?


Page 23 of 45
S: Oh, actually, theres likebut heres another distinction. There was, there is actually like
bud level marijuana.

D: Okay.

S: And then, theres trim which is essentially bud level marijuana gets to that point because
its been trimmed.

D: Okay.

S: All the trimmings that have occurred, that actually was more what was in, in the apartment
and there was probably, __ a couple pounds.

D: Okay. So that

S: Cause it, it takes, it requires a good amount of trim in order to be able to do this.

D: Isnt trim noted, usually the kind of the waste product of marijuana plant?

S: Right but that, right. Its, its the waste product in the sense that the buds are what people
want cause it looks good, tastes good but the, the amount of THC and CBD in those
leaves and the trim

D: Okay.

S: Is still going to be high.

D: Okay.

S: And so, thats where, thats where its an extraction because you dont want to be using
that kind of trim to smoke or anything like that but it still has good stuff.

D: Okay.

S: So, you, you use some sort of a, um, like gas to liquid extraction like this. Um, and the,
this is a known process that has been developed and, and used in this industry for

D: Okay. So, the process doesnt include any open-flame device.

S: Absolutely not.

D: Okay. But it does include electricity for the vacuum system?

S: The vacuum and the butane are never on at the same time but in the sense of the process
that, yes, the vacuum at the end would require electricity, um, in order to, to turn on the
well, yes. Sorry, yes, huh. It still, it also uses, uh, uh, like vegetable oil to, to act as a


Page 24 of 45
lubricant and for the oil of thebut it is also plugged in to get the power because its a
vacuum, it requires a lot of suction.

D: Okay. And is it yourso, thats in the several months that Richards been staying there
that he, he set up that process. Youve been, youve been dealing with that process
because, its my understanding from our earlier conversation

S: Right.

D: In the hotel or the hospital, rather, that not only has management seen the equipment but
Bellevue Police had been over?

S: Right.

D: To check it out?

S: Right. So, about two and a half weeks ago, probably about three weeks ago now at this
point, um, there was a police incident that the management company, at the request of
one of the maintenance workers, not the construction workers but their maintenance
worker came in and fixed my, my shower was clogged. He obviously saw the equipment,
didnt know what it was, figured he, you now, I dont blame him, so he went to
management, told them about it. They decided to just call the police right away and get,
and send them over to my apartment. I was not there actually at the time. Jesse and
Richard were. Um, but that ended up, that entire conversation ended with the police
officer saying, You guys are doing nothing wrong and youre not actually running a
business out of your apartment, so thats not illegal either, and you all have your
paperwork. So, he

D: Okay.

S: He, at that point, was like, Uh, theres no reason for me to be here and there was actually
no reason for me to even have been called here. You guys are more than covered. So,
at that point, we, we just continued then doing, continuing on with the process at that
point, uh, and, uh, the apartment management hadnt brought it back up since and, and
so, it seemed to me like that entire conversation had been finished between myself and
the apartment complex.

D: And well get to that a little bit because I understand that you have some kind of awell,
lets, lets, lets try to, lets, Im sorry. Lets continue on with thenow, is there any kind of
state, medical recommendation that you have to, to do this process or

S: Oh, I, I

D: Can you tell me a little bit about that?

S: Yeah, I have a, like all three of us have have state medical recommendations which
allow us to, to a certain degree in a sense of amounts we can make.


Page 25 of 45
D: Okay.

S: Hash oils. We can grow plants, we can do X number of things legally.

D: Okay.

S: And we can legally have Y amounts of those things at any given time.

D: For your personal use.

S: For per, for personal use or use within the collective.

D: And you, youve dealt with, through your authorization, through the Hope Clinic?

S: Uh-huh.

D: And wheres that at?

S: That, in Downtown Seattle.

D: Okay.

S: I, Id be able to get you the exact address.

D: Okay.

S: But not just this moment.

D: And what is your medical condition that you went through this process to get the state

S: Yeah. In, um, in the 8
grade, I suffered a, uh, somewhat severe, uh, back twist, a back
injury basically and, since then, um, smoking marijuana has improved my quality of life.
So, that was the, thats the med, the reasoning behind why I have it.

D: So, the extraction, the extraction process is to get like hash oil then?

S: Uh-huh.

D: Is that, would be the

S: Yeah.

D: Okay.

S: Yeah.

D: And so, and hash oil then would be eventually a product that can be smoked then or put
on cigarettes or


Page 26 of 45

S: Uh-huh. Right. It, it actually can be a, mostly its vaporized. Um, meaning that theres a,
uh, a metal nail, for lack of a better terminology. Its the most common way of, of imbibing
it but basically you, you take a small torch. Um, like say a lighter torch, right?

D: Uh-huh.

S: And then, you heat up this nail or if you already have a

D: You mean like a nail that is

S: Like, like, its a, like a, a

D: To build something?

S: Yeah. I, I need to describe it a little bit more.

D: Okay.

S: Because its a nail but then, it has a fixture around it that has several holes in it for the air

D: Okay.

S: And then, a rim around it to protect the substance from getting out.

D: Okay.

S: So, its a bowl, but on the bottom of it is a nail. And you end up heating that nail up so that
you can vaporize the hash oil.

D: Okay.

S: And then, so then, youre doing it like a traditional water pipe at that point. In fact, you
could use a traditional pipe and just have a new piece put on it for this. So, thats, uh, the
butane or its, uh, the, the nail is heated up. And then, at that point, you just dab it. Its
often called dabbing. And because, you, you know, usually take a little stick and you have
a little bowl of it at the end and you just stick it on the nail and it vaporizes and heats
instantly, and so, then, you just inhale at that point.

D: Okay.

S: And its actually much safer and much more, um, uh, healthy for you because youre not
actually burning plant matter. Youre vaporizing good medicine.

D: Okay. Is the extraction process paperwork, is that different than

S: Um


Page 27 of 45

D: Paperwork that you have then?

S: Uh, the extraction paperwork, it, I guess that is where there might be a kind of gray area
because of the legality issues currently going on. However, I know that Richard has the
information that, cause he has been doing this in the, in California as well. Uh, and hes
been in this medical industry for 15 years, so he has the proper, um, license at that point
in a sense to be able to do this, though our medical recommendations, from the way I
understand it, allow us to do this up to a certain amount.

D: Okay.

S: What he provides us, just being able to, if we wanted to go past that at a certain point.

D: Okay.

S: So

D: So, the equipment that would be in your apartment in your living room area, including all
the glassware and anything, the paraphernalia related to doing the hash oil process, would
that be Davids or Richards stuff or

S: Yeah. And I mean I, it

D: Or you guys share costs

S: There, there could, there could potentially be one piece of glassware, like one of the bowls
that I grobbed from Goodwill.

D: Okay.

S: Or something like that. But, otherwise, the, the bigger pieces like the, the glass tubes that
the stuffed with the trim

D: Uh-huh.

S: The, the vacuum pump, et cetera, yeah, those are, those are his. He brought those with

D: And do youso then, the finished product is used by all three of you?

S: Right.

D: Okay.

S: And its, its used between the three of us and we, at that point, it is a donation, uh

D: If you give it to somebody else.


Page 28 of 45

S: The industry, I, I wont give it to anybody else and I wont sell it to anyone. But if they want
to give me a donation

D: Uh-huh.

S: Thats perfectly fine.

D: And they are allowed to use it?

S: Then, theyre allowed if they have, they, and they, of course, always have to have their
paperwork, right.

D: Do they have to, are they allowed to use it then in your apartment?

S: Um, yes, because, at that point, we would both haveI wouldnt want them to, but legally
speaking, they would be able to. However, we did not do any of those sort of dealings out
of our apartment because of the fact that, on the lease, it says we cant. So, we cant
actually run a business, which technically its not, but even if they wanted to look at it that
way, we werent running the business out of the apartment.

D: Okay. So, when you find yourself out of the apartment, you were, youre, you have no

S: Uh-huh.

D: Your contact lenses are out.

S: Right.

D: You have no, you have a, I dont see that youve had a cell phone.

S: No, my phone is probably gone and burned and melted at this point.

D: Youre, and youre dressed in your pajamas.

S: Yeah.

D: Basically. Richie, what was he, Richard, what was he dressed in?

S: Uh, he was dressed in, uh, jeans. Um, I think he had like a, a pair like snow pant overalls,
like snow pants with the, the overalls on.

D: Like ski bibs?

S: Like kind of, yeah, ski bibs actually, exactly.

D: Shirt?


Page 29 of 45

S: He, yeah, shirt. Um, a T-shirt as well as, I want to say, a long-sleeved shirt.

D: Okay.

S: Uh, over that, a hat on, a green hat that he usually always wears.

D: Stocking hat or baseball cap?

S: Um, stocking hat. Uh, yeah, like an elf hat actually.

D: Elf?

S: And awell, its, its long and it hangs.

D: Okay.

S: Like kind of back and down, so.

D: Like an elf in the North Pole?

S: [laughs] Something like that, right.

D: Okay. Yeah, okay.

S: Yeah, yeah, exactly though.

D: Yeah. I havent seen it, so I, its the first thing that popped into my mind.

S: Um, yeah. And then, I think, I think he wears like kind of bracelets andnot like bracelets
but he had like a, a thick thing on. Uh, I forget exactly what it was.

D: Okay. So, if Not a So, if an explosion in there, theyre still sorting through all those


D: I havent really followed through with it. Its an explosion of sorts related to theis this a
Well, let me back up.

S: Huh.

D: The process of using butane under pressure to, to put through the marijuana cut

S: Uh-huh.

D: To be able to provide you with a hashish oil, slash, butane-fluid type product, that then the
butane is siphoned off as best as possible.


Page 30 of 45

S: Uh-huh.

D: To leave a, as clear, as pure of a hash oil product as you can get that stuff. Thats the
whole thing, right?

S: Oh, yeah.

D: Okay.

S: Nice. Youve explained it very well too.

D: Okay. So, that is not done with any fire process but if there is a fume process, fumes in
your apartment from the butane, and somebody uses one of those hot lighters to heat,
heat up

S: Uh-huh.

D: Your nail to be able to use some hash oil

S: I, um, I have a, a, Ive watched the extraction process go on as the nail was being heated
across the room.

D: Yeah.

S: And Ive actually seen that dozens and dozens of times. In, in sense of Ive seen what
it, youre talking about as the potential for it.

D: Okay.

S: And it has not happened many, many times before.

D: But

S: Not to say that it couldnt this time.

D: Especially when youre sleeping.

S: Uh-huh.

D: And would it be fair to say you dont know whats going on in your apartment or this place

S: Right, at that point in time, while Im sleeping, I do not know whats going on out there.

D: What, what time, what time did you go to bed?

S: It was approximately 3 a.m.


Page 31 of 45

D: Okay.

S: Between 2:30 and 3 a.m.

D: And who is in your apartment when you went to bed?

S: Jesse and Richard, thats who.

D: Okay. And so, after 3 a.m., so youve beenthis, this event is occurring. I get here at 8
oclock in the morning. So, youve been in bed for maybe just approximately 3, 4 hours or

S: Right.

D: Maybe. Around that period of time.

S: Yup.

D: While youre sleeping, you dont know whats going on in your bedroom with Jesse and

S: In the, for the rest of the apartment, right.

D: Cause you dont know if Jesse went to bed? You dont know if Richard ever went to bed.

S: Right. I

D: They may, they may be up.

S: They very well.

D: Doing things, yeah.

S: They could be doing things, yeah. Uh, I, I will say that I actually have no, I do not know
what they are doing in the 4 hours that Im asleep before the event happened.

D: Okay, alright. We took some pictures of some of your superficial scrape injuries.

S: Uh-huh.

D: In the, in your emergency room cubicle. And I did that with your permission, is that

S: That is correct.

D: And, in fact, you helped me.


Page 32 of 45
S: And I held ruler up and everything like that.

D: Used this. Okay.

S: Uh-huh.

D: And currently I have your clothing that you were wearing at the time. And at some point at
the end of the investigation, whatever it will be, Ill return that to you. Is there anything
thatI am, I am certain at this particular point that an explosion occurred in your
apartment related to some Oh, before I, before I get to that, but keep that in mind, that
little comment of mine. Lets go back to, whats the construction going on in your

S: Uh. The construction that was going on outside of my apartment, not inside.

D: Okay.

S: Um, well, scratch that. Mostly outside, and they were coming inside occasionally. Um,
the patios and windows were all being replaced across the entire apartment complex
across every single building because there was a known mold issue with all of those
windows. There were mold factorys. There, it, and I wont get into that detail

D: Okay.

S: Too much right now but it was so, it was extremely bad and it has prompted me, it had
prompted me to, half a dozen to a dozen times, bring it up to the apartment complex to the
point where this morning, Jesse and I, barring any of this happening, were actually going
to be speaking to a lawyer about the potential action we could take against the apartment
because of it.

D: Okay.

S: Um, so, the construction was like five, six-man crews were supposed to be going on each
apartment and, from the outside onlywell, initially, I was told from the outside onlyto
pull the patios and windows out and pop new ones, and then, seal them up. Um, this
ended up getting to the point where they did but they, they told us, Oh, they do have to
come inside to remove blinds, and things like that. And, through that and the interactions
between one of the construction workers and Richard, that was how the police ended up
getting called, along with what the maintenance worker had seen when he came to fix
Cause that actually ended up happening at the same time.

D: Okay.

S: So, I think the maintenance worker also overheard the construction worker soliciting
Richard for medicine. And through all that, I think he got the impression that, as they put
it, we were running a drug ring. The police officer showed up and was like, You guys
arent running a drug ring. In fact, youre doing everything within the legal law, the legal
limits, right, so


Page 33 of 45

D: And that was a couple weeks ago?

S: This was two and a half to three weeks ago, right.

D: Do you have gas for your cooking or is there any

S: No.

D: Natural gas products?

S: No, theres no natural gas line, as far as I understand, in the apartment.

D: Alright.

S: But youll want to probably ask them about that to be sure.

D: Okay. And so, but you dont have a gas-fired

S: No.

D: Fired fireplace?

S: No. No, no, no, not.

D: Or cooking stove?

S: Nope, not. The stove is, um, electric, um, grill top. Uh, theyre coil tops. And then, the,

D: Your furnace?

S: The furnace is just electrical.

D: Okay. Alright. If it turns out that thean explosion of sorts originated from your
apartment, what do you think, what, do you have any opinion as to what would have
caused that?

S: A really, really massive fuck up.

D: Of what?

S: Uh, uh, like thatand, and, honestly, I cant.

D: Okay.


Page 34 of 45
S: Like, like it is to the point of, its impossible for me to think that, through the processes that
Ive seen happen over the last couple months, that it got screwed up so bad as to have
caused that.

D: Okay.

S: Like it just doesnt, itso

D: So, now

S: I understand that its definitely a possibility, but for me, as the question is being asked, I
actually cant see anything reasonable having gone wrong. Something awful must have
happened basically.

D: So, how long does the process take and how much butane is used to do like a

S: A single

D: A single

S: A single tube that holds maybe

D: Youre indicating what, three-foot long?

S: Im indicating about a meter long?

D: And how, how, whats the diameter of your tube?

S: The diameter of the tube would be about two to three inches.

D: Okay.

S: In diameter.

D: And you pack that with marijuana.

S: And you pack that with the trim or marijuana or, you know, just the

D: Do you have a special tool for that to

S: Um, it, its literally just like a, um, you know, like a bed rack and like the sliding poles that
can come on them. And its literally just like a pole that has a

D: Okay.

S: Um, a flat end on it.

D: Okay.


Page 35 of 45

S: To just help pack it down.

D: Do you pack it down as hard as you can?

S: Um, within reason.

D: Okay.

S: Its like, obviously, there are pressure concerns, uh, with that. So, you cant

D: Pressure.

S: Like as the, I mean as the gas is going in and turning into liquid and coming out, its, its, it
is pressurizing a little bit inside the glass tube.

D: Okay, okay.

S: Thats also why specific glass tubes are used.

D: Okay.

S: Which, uh, Richard has a wholesaler, uh, license, so hes able to go to the wholesaler and
get them for fairly cheap actually.

D: How many, how many tubes are in there?

S: Um, well

D: In your apartment?

S: There were only two, up until a few days ago. And then, he had wanted to replace a
couple of them, so there were more like four or five but not all of them being used and
certainly not all being used at the same time.

D: Okay.

S: They cant be. They can only be used one at a time.

D: So, the, the glass tube is about three feet long.

S: Yup.

D: And with a three-inch diameter approximately.

S: It is, yup.

D: And its supposed to be made for this extraction process.


Page 36 of 45

S: Yeah, theyre, theyre made for these extraction processes.

D: And

S: Cause you can do this, would be on just

D: Okay.

S: Marijuana. Thats all.

D: Okay. And then, so, the bottom of the tube has a filtering system to keep out debris.

S: Uh-huh.

D: As the liquids start to drop into a glass container.

S: Right.

D: On the top of the tube is there, theres a special

S: Theres an inlet hole thats very specifically made for a can of butane.

D: Is there, is there a cap that goes over the glass?

S: Yeah, yeah. Theres, its glass.

D: That has that hole?

S: Its a, its glass with a hole in it basically, and its usually a spiral hole.

D: Okay.

S: Um, then, a little plastic, uh, safety condom, I guess, for lack of a better word. And then,
and then, the can ends up pushing into the piece of plastic.

D: That was

S: And that, it has a hole in it which allows it to flow.

D: Since I have, since I havent seen the butane cans, theyre 12 ounces?

S: Uh, sure. Lets just call it 12 ounces, yeah.

D: Is it the size of a coke, Coca-Cola can?

S: Its a lit, its just a little taller than that, so thats why Im saying maybe like 16.


Page 37 of 45
D: Is it circular or

S: Its a, a drum. Its cylindrical.

D: Okay. And it has some kind of a, a, does it have a flip up?

S: No, no. Its a, its just a straight can. And then, at the top is sort of a, a, a circular, sort of
has a mound, like a little, almost like a little hill.

D: Uh-huh.

S: And then, a, basically a spike. And what that spike is, its a, its a hole. And its, as you
push down on the spike

D: So you take

S: So, you push down on the edges of the spike, gas will come out from the middle of it.

D: So, if youre holding on toand I appreciate your going over this with me.

S: Uh-huh.

D: Im holding, if Im holding onto the or the butane cane, am I gonna insert that spike into
the top of

S: That plastic knob on the glass tube.

D: Okay.

S: Uh-huh.

D: Does that have to be replaced then each time?

S: Um, not each time.

D: Okay.

S: But, obviously after certain uses, youll want to replace it.

D: So, whenso, the can is under, as the can is filled

S: The can is pressurized as well

D: Pressurized, okay. So, so, the pressurization of the can plus the tube and all that stuff, the
whole thing is related to pressure and pressure, pressure and, pressure, pressurized
butane that turns into a liquid inside the glass tube that helps with extracting the

S: THC off of the


Page 38 of 45

D: THC out of the trim but

S: To help with that.

D: If you would drop them, would there, with the, have you ever had where the glass

S: Uh, yes. We had actually had a tube crack before and

D: Under the pressure of the contents of the whole, whole thing.

S: Right, right, because, right, because

D: Of the butane.

S: Of the butane.

D: Okay.

S: Because also, what, what happens is that it gets, uh, a bit, it gets fairly cold as well
because of that sudden state change.

D: Okay.

S: Um, and so, so, you have to have, uh, wear a glove while youre holding the tube because
eventually the tube is gonna get actually kind, a little bit icy. So, we have definitely had it
before where a tube cracks one, ruptured.

D: Do you

S: You know, like, and

D: Do you have to hold the tube or do you have a stand or something?

S: That, that goes back and forth. Some, some of the tubes are smaller. I indicated the
longest one that we had.

D: Uh-huh.

S: So, like the smaller one especially, you can just sit with it basically. The bigger one, you,
you generally will hold it yourself. Um, but, but, occasionally, theres an apparatus thats
used to help stabilize it at the same time, so.

D: So, if somebody was doing the process with the tall glass, would he like hold on to the
tube, and then, hold on to the can and just send, sit there in a chair and pull it through your


Page 39 of 45
S: Uh, more, more. I mean more or less kind of. I mean its it, its slightly different than that
but youre pretty much there. Youre right on with that.

D: Would be, thered be variations

S: Therell be, there, there could be variations on that. Its depending on his mood if you
want to stand or sit or whatever. But like really, at that point, youre right. He, its one
hand on the tube, one hand on the butane can and a glass jar to catch it underneath.

D: And how fast is it going before youre then done? Or do you

S: Um

D: Do you do the whole can of butane?

S: The, the butane, the butane part of it takes all of 15 minutes at most.

D: Okay.

S: Like its one can. And then, depending on the side of the tube and the amount thats in
there, a second or third can, right?

D: Okay.

S: But theres no more than, I think on the biggest extraction, six cans might be used on like
the, the largest tube that we have but I think thats actually over. I think its, its only four or

D: How do you know when the process is finished?

S: Because you can actually see the, um, the color of the liquid. It immediately is, is a, like a,
a green-yellow and it is, it, it basically gets clear, uh, at the point of, of its done. So, youll
see like one clear or one yellow drop for like four or five clear drops, and thats when
youre done.

D: Okay.

S: That, theres a, theres a very clear part of when its done.

D: So, so, during the process, you keep adding cans of pressurized butane to the glass
nipple or the nipple on top of the glass cylinder.

S: Right.

D: Until, until the color of the liquid coming out shows you that its done.

S: That, that the oil


Page 40 of 45
D: Okay.

S: The THC and the CBDs have been extracted because now its all, the butane, liquid
butane is coming through clear, meaning that its not pulling anything through anymore.

D: And so, and that process can go as long as, depending on how hard you pack the, the
material or how much material is in it or how, how long your glass tube is.

S: Its, its more about the length of the glass tube and the amount of material. And those two
are very dependent on each other.

D: Alright.

S: Thats a lot. And that is the time factor, the dependency, and it only takes about a minute
per can of, of pushing it through at that point. So, really, the entire butane process of it
takes all of five to ten minutes. And then, at that point, like the actual amount of butane is
far less than the number of cans because some has already evaporated in the air. And
then, the rest is trapped.

D: Through where?

S: In the liquid. Like, like as, as its being pushed, some butane will pop up the side, right.
And, and thats a slight amount to get it to evaporate into the air. But this is, again, its
also something that Ive seen happen while the, the flamewell, then, the nail was being
lit on the other side of the room, so thats what Im saying, like knowing a little bit actually
about the chemistry of this as well, it would have required like a dozen of those butane
cans, all going into the, at, into gas, atmosphere for that to have caused enough to have
caused an explosion, like, one

D: Yeah. You dont, you dont have first-hand knowledge as to that?

S: Uh, I, I mean I dont necessarily have first-hand knowledge.

D: Okay.

S: As I know I, Ive studied math and chemistry.

D: Okay.

S: And especially this stuff because Im, it, Im involved in it in a sense.

D: Uh-huh.

S: Like I, its going on. And so, I wanted to know about it. And so, that was why I felt
comfortable having, having it done in the apartment because there was no, as far as I
understood, there was no way this could happen. Unless, again, something

D: Happened in the night you didnt know


Page 41 of 45

S: Either happened in the night or my, my whole thing is I think its something that none of us
knew about.

D: Okay.

S: And thats how it, it came to be but I dont, so.

D: Okay. Would it be fair to say that fumes from the butane can get out when the can is
being put into the top of the glass tube? It can be...

S: Un, it would be fair to say. Yeah, itd be fair to say that a small amount could escape.

D: And some fumes can be developed when the in-product comes out of the bottom of the
tube, along with the, the hash oil.

S: At that point, um, at that point, the, the only amount, its the, theres the liquid butane, and
the thing at the bottom

D: Uh-huh.

S: And thats very slowly evaporating.

D: Okay.

S: Uh, so, at that point, yeah, there would be a small amount of butane gas also going into
the atmosphere at that point.

D: Okay.

S: Um, but all

D: Okay.

S: But it, it generally goes very quickly into the vacuum chamber, so then, that butane is

D: And then, when it goes into the vacuum chamber, the fumes then go where?

S: Uh, in fact

D: Outside?

S: And, yeah, inside the vacuum chamber would like, cause you have to mult you have to
vac it multiple times, so you like vac it up. It sort of honey-combs out, and pour, it gets
porus. The gas releases. You extract, you undo the vacuum and you let that gas out, and
we would do that next to the patio door.


Page 42 of 45
D: Okay.

S: Yeah. So, then it was going outside.

D: So, if it wasnt being done

S: Thats, again, well, another wrong word. Its like

D: Possible.

S: It probably is not

D: Possible source of

S: I, I, yeah, in that sense but

D: Something thats potential.

S: Yeah, but, but it would, again, its, the jar is like this big.

D: Which is During a recorder you cant see.

S: Oh, Im sorry. The, the diameter would be, um

D: Eight inches?

S: Eight inches, six to eight inches. And the depth would be maybe a foot.

D: Uh-huh.

S: To ten inches. Uh, and, and then, that, that is the size of the chamber that is what the
vacuum stuff...

D: Okay.

S: Going up there.

D: And if, and if Richard has these severe burns on his hands, what do you think?

S: Uh, well

D: Do you have an opinion about that?

S: The opinion I have about that is if, no matter what happened exactly, it seemed like I was
on like the edge of it.

D: Okay.


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S: In a sense.

D: Alright.

S: Because I got away by pretty awesome actually.

D: Yes.

S: Um, those two did not end. The timing of when the fire occurred versus when Richard
came out, Im afraid that he might have been passed out for a second from the initial

D: Okay.

S: Bam. And he was, was too close to the flames.

D: Okay.

S: As they came up. That, thats one scenario thats gone through my mind then.

D: Okay. Yeah, theres beenand we then, since we werent there, we dont know.

S: And, and

D: I dont know that.

S: Right, right. I dont know either. Like all I know is that I saw the building come down. I
turned around, the building is down. I get my roommate. I looked back at the building.
And now, suddenly its, its starting on fire.

D: Okay.

S: And its starting on fire like pretty quickly too.

D: Right.

S: Like it wasnt just a

D: Perfect.

S: Uh, uh, like, Oh, I can see the smoke. Its like, phoo, phoo.

D: And then

S: And then, that is when I started running to the other building so then, like, wow, that just
went up.

D: Okay.


Page 44 of 45
S: Like I need to warn people, so.

D: And then, you hear some canisters going off?

S: And then, and then, right then, that would have been the last of like a box of twelve butane
canisters that we had in there.

D: Did they come in a box?

S: Yeah, they, yeah, they come in a box of, its either twelve or nine.

D: Okay.

S: You know, so we would have had twelve or eighteen at that point.

D: Where do you buy that?

S: A box or two box. Again, he gets that at the wholesaler. Uh, you can also go to, um, uh,

D: Head shop?

S: Tobacco shop, head shop.

D: Okay.

S: And theyll be able to provide you with

D: Okay.

S: With that. I believe you can, I mean the butane, you can basically pick up anywhere, like
Fred Meyer.

D: Okay.

S: Um, Sears.

D: Alright.

S: Youd be able to pick that up anywhere.

D: Alright. Well, thank you very much for your very candid interview here on this.

S: Okay.

D: It would have been disastrous for me to write this down, and weve been on the recorder
for an hour and eight minutes.


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S: Awesome. Okay.

D: So, I appreciate that.

S: No problem. Whatever helps you out.

D: Investigation will be continuing and see where we go.

S: And I just want to make sure that, I just hope everyones okay.

D: Okay.

S: Like, and thats the big for me, is I just, like thats, uh, an insane thing to have, to suddenly
happen and it caught me off-guard and I, the people in the room above me, like thats kind
of where I really hope they werent there.

D: Okay.

S: You know. [laughs]

D: Anything else you think we should add to your interview at this particular point before we
stop the recording?

S: I do not think that theres anything else.

D: Okay.

S: Nothing with that.

D: So, lets, lets stop this atthe date is still 11/5/2013. The time is now 10:30 a.m., and Ill
be stopping the recording.