Transcript of Canadian Glen's interview with freelance journalist Amy MacPherson on 'The View Up Here' September 4, 2014.
http://theviewuphere.ca/amymacpherson/
Transcript of Canadian Glen's interview with freelance journalist Amy MacPherson on 'The View Up Here' September 4, 2014.
http://theviewuphere.ca/amymacpherson/
Transcript of Canadian Glen's interview with freelance journalist Amy MacPherson on 'The View Up Here' September 4, 2014.
http://theviewuphere.ca/amymacpherson/
September 4, 2014 3 4 http://blogtalk.vo.llnwd.net/o23/show/6/861/show_6861619.mp3 5 6 7 Glen: Well well, what do you know? Now I can hear the song. Welcome to 8 The View Up Here. Tonight we have Amy MacPherson on our show. And 9 the songs fading in and out from when I can hear it. So I hope somebody 10 can hear me. Blogtalk Radio. What a joke. Well, well be taking about 11 CSEC and private members bill C-622 from Joyce Murray. Well be 12 talking about the Canada Pension Plan and whats happened to it, hardly 13 anybody knows about it. Well be talking about fracking close to Lake 14 Huron, and storing nuclear waste. Only 40 million people at risk there. 15 Whats the big deal? And well talk about the price that Amy paid by 16 digging into this fun by the Harper government. So hopefully the song 17 will finish and Ill bring her on and everything will work. See what 18 happens. Welcome to The View Up Here. 19 20 Okay Im looking at the chat. Can anybody hear me? Come on, somebody 21 tell me. Alright. Excellent. Somebody can hear me. Well okay, so you 22 must have heard what I said during the song, so well carry on. I have my 23 guest here in the studio, and now shes live. Good evening Amy, can you 24 hear me? 25 26 Amy: Hey Glen, I can hear you. How you doing? 27 28 Glen: Yay! 29 30 Amy: (laughs) A little bit of technical difficulties? Its all good. It could be 31 CSEC, you know. (laughs) 32 33 Glen: Well, unless CSEC actually runs BTR, this is standard for the course. But 34 whatever, youre here now, welcome to the show. 35 36 Amy: Thanks so much. 37 38 Glen: And uh, I think I pretty much covered it. Were gonna go over CSEC and 39 C-622, the Canada Pension Plan and our wonderful friend Nigel Wright 40 and the rest of the connected Board, and then well move over to Ontario, 41 and uh as I said in a couple tweets earlier today, you know if you wanna 42 look into some fracking and nuclear waste and Bruce Power, couple of 43 cabinet ministers gee, you wouldnt think that youre gonna end up 44 under surveillance but surprise! 45 46 Amy: Thats exactly what happened. 47 48 Glen: Well, well get along to that and then as I said to listeners, youve paid 49 quite a price, ongoing, for dealing with these people. And uh, Im sure not 50 everybodys aware of the story and well, its not a story, its a non-fiction 51 story, but a story it is. 52 53 Amy: Well call it a saga, hows that? 54 55 Glen: That is-- that is accurate. I agree, that is a very good thing to call it. So, 56 where would you like to start? Would you like to start with Joyce 57 Murrays private members bill and what its trying to accomplish? Would 58 you like to start with CSEC? 59 60 Amy: Sure. Um, now Joyce Murray does have Bill C-622, its a private 61 members bill, and they dont have very much chance of passing, so it 62 might be that its generating conversation right now, but its one that 63 needs to be had. And Ive read over the bill, and it still-- it still doesnt 64 have as much teeth as I would like it to have but at least its a starting 65 place. So what shes done is shes uh made a proposal for there to be 66 oversight of CSIS and CSEC with a parliamentary committee which 67 would be similar to the congressional oversight that the United States has. 68 And the Commissioner would report to the Committee and uh, the 69 information would be available to government and to the Prime Minister, 70 and they would need to justify, um, you know at least be documenting 71 what requests are made of them from other surveillance agencies, whether 72 the NSA, GCHQ, so on and so forth, um, what theyve fulfilled or not, and 73 if there are any issues that might put Canadian privacy at risk to be 74 reported so that they can go over it. But the problem that I have with this 75 bill is that um, ultimately it gives the Prime Minister a veto, so if theres 76 any information in these reports that should be available to the public that 77 the Prime Minister for any reason whatsoever says they dont want to 78 share, uh then it wont be shared. Um, so you know in a situation with the 79 Harper government that has been very closed to releasing any information, 80 I think that could be quite a stumbling block, I dont know if it would be 81 the same in the future but right now it-- it-- it seems a bit complicated. 82 And as well it doesnt-- it doesnt define the nature of privacy, and thats 83 at the core of the problem here. We have a lot of conversations about 84 metadata, and people have-- most people have no idea of what that 85 means, and they often think that it relates to telephone records, you know, 86 what number you dialed, how long the telephone call was, but now we 87 have the advent of the internet and its a lot more complicated than that. 88 And um, Ann Cavoukian, the Privacy Commissioner of Ontario has taken 89 issue with the way information is being collected from the internet and she 90 says that although social media does have public features, that the mass 91 collection of information from these sites is an invasion of privacy, that 92 we do have some right to feel protected using these sites, so shes taking 93 up that cause and that is-- thats part and parcel to all of this, and as we 94 get further in our conversation Ill explain some more about that, because I 95 can tell you exactly how its been used to harm me and my family as a 96 journalist in a way that I alleged is meant to suppress the news. 97 98 Glen: Well I agree with that, I mean uh, the definition of metadata is not well 99 defined. I mean it applies to posting a picture, a picture has metadata on 100 it. Uh, your ISP connection has metadata on it. It is very extensive, and 101 they dont really care to expound on that or explain it too much. This is 102 true, but when Ive been looking at 622, the big part if it is Part 2 of the 103 Act, which is basically an act to establish the Intelligence and Security 104 Committee of Parliament. And I agree that it is very similar to the House 105 Intelligence Committee in the U.S., but you know we dont have it 106 currently, but about the biggest thing that I saw in it that would maybe 107 help maybe is that this Committee will be composed of three members 108 of the Senate, six members of the House, and none of them can be a 109 Minister of Government or a Parliamentary Secretary to a Minister of 110 Government. So, it kind of makes it sound like its outsiders within the 111 House, and no more than four members of the entire Committee can be of 112 the same party. So, I would have to say 113 114 Amy: I agree with all of that and I-- I definitely support Joyce Murrays bill. 115 Its just that it doesnt go nearly far enough. Itwhat it does is it 116 addresses oversight of CSEC, but it does not address what CSEC can and 117 cannot do. 118 119 Glen: Thats true. Thats true, but then that is basically covered every year in the 120 defence bill. So that is similar to the NDAA bill in the States, but I mean 121 you know with-- with whats going on, and with ALEC being up here 122 helping write laws, you know thats-- thats, you know, it is progress 123 but yeah, I agree its gonna be one step at a time. I also see here in our 124 chat to inform you that uh, this show tonight is going out on 125 www.livestream.com / OccupyToronto. So thank you very much for doing 126 that 127 128 Amy: Oh great! 129 130 Glen: Yeah, thank you very much. 131 132 Amy: Thats great. Yeah. 133 134 Glen: Some other things that are in the bill in Part 2, theres not to be any extra 135 pay for anybody serving on this committee, so you know, especially when 136 were talking about the Harper government since almost half the entire 137 caucus is making extra cash from either being in cabinet or being a 138 Parliamentary Secretary to a Minister or on committees, that may kind of 139 get it across that youre not gonna do this just for some coin. And the one 140 that comes to my mind right off the bat is Sleepy Anders who is on the 141 committee for Veteran Affairs and couldnt even be bothered to stay 142 awake, he just wanted the extra coin. So maybe shes gonna get something 143 across with that. But I mean yes I agree, there is security and 144 confidentiality provisions in the bill, and uh anybody who does sit on this 145 committee, even when theyre done when theyre no longer a member of 146 the Senate or the House, theyre not gonna be able to tell us what they 147 know. So, I guess 148 149 Amy: No, its sworn to secrecy for life. 150 151 Glen: Yeah. So I-- I do understand what youre saying that, you know, it 152 doesnt really go far enough, but this committee will have powers with 153 this bill that other bodies like Elections Canada dont have, which they 154 should but they dont, and the mandate is to review the legislative 155 regulatory policy administrative framework for CSEC and other bodies 156 that come in contact with it, and this committee will have the power to 157 summon before it any witness and require them to give evidence, orally or 158 in writing, under oath, you know, solemn affirmation if they cant be 159 sworn to oath so you know, these are things that Elections Canada and a 160 lot of other federal operations should have but of course, they dont. So 161 you know 162 163 Amy: It is 164 165 Glen: shes trying to get it in there, you know? 166 167 Amy: Its a definite starting place, its-- its a place that we must begin at, 168 because at present we have virtually no oversight of CSIS and CSEC, 169 there is a single judge with a very, very small um, staff to be working on 170 everything that theyre trying to keep oversight of it all, they cant speak 171 out of school to anyone else thats not right within that industry, so 172 theres-- theres no public aspect making sure, you know, whats 173 happening in all these gray corners, that its okay and-- and we-- we need 174 to have that, like there has to be some mechanism to say this is right or 175 this is wrong, and we dont even have that right now. 176 177 Glen: This is true. This is true, there is absolutely nothing right now, so I mean 178 yeah, I understand it, and it is a private members bill so I mean, even the 179 chances of it getting even to third reading is pretty slim. 180 181 Amy: There-- it is slim, but it is also not unheard of if there is enough public 182 support. So thats-- you know, part of the issue in speaking about it with 183 everyone to educate them about it, let them know that it exists so they can 184 start talking to their friends, we really need to develop this conversation in 185 the Canadian consciousness. As soon as anybody says CSEC or CSIS, 186 everyone just cowers, hides their heads you know, Oh better not talk 187 about that, we dont know anything about it, were not allowed to know 188 anything about it, its just you know, the spooks in the darkness and it 189 cant stay that way. We are a democratic country! (laughs) You know? 190 191 Glen: I agree with that. I mean, there does-- there should definitely be 192 accountability and a certain degree of transparency, which you know, Im 193 not saying that the little guy from Shawinigan and Paul Martin were any 194 better at it, but uh, its certainly disappeared. With Harper. And I do 195 agree, that is a very good point that private members bills have a much 196 better chance of getting somewhere when constituents are aware of them, 197 and they let their representatives know that they are aware of them. That 198 is true, I will agree with that. 199 200 Amy: And the other complicated part about this, um, journalism is the fourth 201 estate, um, it is a mechanism to keep a democracy in check, to keep 202 politicians in check, and to be operating honestly, thats the job of a 203 journalist is you know, to be checking what everyones doing, make sure 204 that its kosher, do your investigations when somethings fishy and what 205 not. But because of the state of things right now, and the attitudes of 206 many current governments, especially the Canadian government, the 207 powers to oppress through CSIS and CSEC and our law enforcement and-- 208 and without these regulations about uh metadata and whats public and 209 whats private on the internet, it is being used to oppress journalists 210 directly. So 211 212 Glen: Indeed it is. 213 214 Amy: So the fourth estate has also been hobbled from being able to do its job. 215 So now you have, um, a very powerful division of government that is 216 answerable to no one, and journalists are not even allowed to do their job 217 to look into things. 218 219 Glen: Yeah, its not only that uh, but that is-- that is totally valid, and you will 220 explain it to us later on in the show. But its also this corporate media 221 club, you know weve been hearing about it out of the States somewhat, 222 you know,theres stuff that the New York Times or the Washington Post 223 has, and then they get a phone call. Well, wed appreciate it if maybe you 224 kept that to yourselves. And they cooperate. Well this happens in Canada 225 all the time. 226 227 Amy: Even worse. 228 229 Glen: Yes and we 230 231 Amy: Thats what people dont realize, its even worse. 232 233 Glen: Yeah, and we dont hear about it. You know-- you know, people can say 234 what they want about the New York Times being a crock of shit now 235 compared to what it used to be etcetera, but at least their editorial board 236 actually comes out at some point and says that they were requested under 237 uh national defence to-- to squash some information. But I mean we 238 dont even hear about it here. And that-- you know, we are behind the 239 Americans for example, and the British I would say, and as far if-- if you 240 really want to go out on a limb, were far behind the Israeli press. I mean 241 for the longest time, except for maybe the last ten years, the Israeli press 242 was the freest press that I knew of anywhere in the world for the longest 243 time. You know? So I mean it-- it can be done. It can be done. Its just-- 244 is there a willingness? 245 246 Amy: I can give you examples of where very established journalists with major 247 productions in Canada have written stories about Canadian intelligence 248 that have been scrubbed from the internet. I do actually have proof of that. 249 250 Glen: Oh, I believe it. I believe it and I mean... 251 252 Amy: And in the United States-- in the U.S. there is such a strong culture behind 253 civil liberties. And Canadians were known for being very polite and 254 reasonable and hearing, you know, both sides of things and not getting too 255 fired up, you know, emotionally without all of the logic behind it, and 256 sometimes we look at Americans as being truly driven by emotion. But on 257 this one theyve got us beat hands down. We need that type of fire in 258 Canada, to start protecting our civil liberties because we are losing them 259 by the day, especially under this state of surveillance. 260 261 Glen: Yeah, I agree. I-- I definitely agree, and uh, you know Harpers trying to 262 make this into something similar to the United States with a separate 263 executive branch, with the Prime Ministers Office and the Privy Council 264 Office to an extent, but he cant do it, its illegal, its against the 265 constitution. I mean a lot of things that they do are against the constitution, 266 you know that, certainly. Uh, people are starting to catch on. I mean when 267 you go, 0 and 11 in-- in the Supreme Court, it would kind of give a clue to 268 most people that maybe you should follow the constitution once in a 269 while. But, you know its-- I guess like you said, uh I-- Ive got a lot of 270 respect for Joyce Murray, she actually wrote this and got it together and 271 got it on the floor. I mean thats a lot further than weve come, and 272 Harpers been here for nearly ten years, so I guess it is a start but-- but do 273 you think that the way to-- for 622 to have a real chance, what do you 274 think we have to do as citizens? 275 276 Amy: I think everybody needs to start beating their drums and very loudly so, 277 theres been next to zero noise about this so its not even touching 278 headlines from mainstream media, theres no updates on the progress or 279 conversations that are being had in communities, uh we need to break that 280 silence desperately. Um, there are so many different advocacy groups, 281 and the only one that I see speaking out in Canada much is 282 www.openmedia.ca And theyre doing great work but they cant do it 283 alone, Joyce Murray cant do it alone, it-- it does take the majority of the 284 public to make a decision for our country. So you know, where are you 285 guys? Hello? 286 287 Glen: Yeah, I agree with that, I agree a hundred percent. I support 288 www.openmedia.ca, I think theyre a fine group and theyre very small. 289 They make an awful lot of noise for the amount of people that are really 290 inside that outfit. And um, I have had them on the show before too, and 291 theyre quite happy to come on, you know? Like, they-- they really 292 deserve a lot more exposure for what they do out there in the public realm. 293 And uh I agree 294 295 Amy: Definitely. 296 297 Glen: Any-- anytime we can bring them to light, its only gonna help. Uh, 298 Nadine has mentioned in a 299 300 Amy: I dont know if 301 302 Glen: Go ahead. 303 304 Amy: Sorry. Uh, just youll notice that the only publication that really does 305 cover them on a-- a constant basis is Vice Canada magazine. 306 307 Glen: Thats true. That is true as well. I mean um, thats another thing too, I 308 mean, there are outlets out there. There are outlets that are distant from 309 the corporate media. Nadine has mentioned in chat Ricochet, who is still 310 really just getting off the ground. Now, theres a chance. You know? 311 Theres a chance. 312 313 Amy: Well I will also let everybody in on this, and I dont mean offence, we just 314 need to speak really honestly to be able to make progress. So with all of 315 that said, I did meet with the editors of Vice, and they were interested in 316 my story of being surveilled as a journalist and what I was going through 317 um, with the intelligence community, but after we met and they looked at 318 everything they decided that they didnt have enough resources to take it 319 on and they had to back away. I also spoke with the editor of Ricochet, 320 and as theyre just getting off the ground, um, its too big for them too. 321 Because 322 323 Glen: Wow. 324 325 Amy: when youre taking on something like this, its-- its the fullest power 326 of the Harper government, and it is the dark corners of it that youre not 327 allowed to know anything about. 328 329 Glen: Yes. Indeed it is. Thats too bad. Did uh did they say anything that you 330 know like, Well be back? 331 332 Amy: Who? 333 334 Glen: Uh, Ricochet or Vice? Like like uh 335 336 Amy: Um, Ricochet, itits-- its sitting there, um when I spoke with Ethan he 337 said you know, they were just getting started and he really hasnt spoken 338 with me much more about it, and 339 340 Glen: Hmph. 341 342 Amy: Ive seen the direction theyre going and it doesnt seem to be taking on 343 anything about intelligence yet, I imagine theyre finding their legs so far 344 so I have yet to see how thats going to play out, but to start out with they 345 werent ready to make that big of a bang. And Vice Canada just doesnt 346 have enough resources to go up against the government on this. It-- its 347 because I have so much proof. So this isnt innuendo, um or what might 348 be. This is an actual example of how its being misused. 349 350 Glen: Yes. Yes indeed, I mean I know that for a fact. You are a victim of 351 oppression and suppression, by the government. Illegally. And that has to 352 be documented to be provable, and you have that documentation. The next 353 step is getting it out there, right? 354 355 Amy: Correct. And I take an awful lot of flack for doing that too. Every time I 356 post a new investigation or start talking about, um, the intelligence 357 community and things that have been happening, I-- I get more contact 358 from my watchers, and I got a message from the RCMP just today. You 359 know, um, I-- Im coming on the talk radio with you, and voila there 360 they are. And there was a-- a new media surveillance company scouring 361 my website as well, theyre-- theyre always, you know, checking on me 362 at the very opportune times so that I know theyre there. But the thing is is 363 that I havent backed down. And what I believe is the only thing that I can 364 do to protect myself now from whats going on is to make every last bit of 365 it public. 366 367 Glen: Yes I agree, the-- the harder they push, the louder you get. I agree. I 368 agree. Because thats the only thing that will prevent them from, you 369 know, doing something really stupid. Because they 370 371 Amy: Because they already have. (laughs) Yup. 372 373 Glen: Yes. And they are just people doing their jobs, and they want to keep their 374 jobs, so they will not make that fatal mistake that will cost them their 375 career or their departmental budget. I mean, you know? Theyre just-- 376 theyre a different type of bean counter but theyre still bean counters. 377 And theyre only worried about their own end at the end of the day, I 378 mean theyre part of the bureaucracy, they just have more power than the 379 rest of the bureaucracy these days. Which gives them a dark advantage 380 381 Amy: Unchecked and unlimited. 382 383 Glen: Yes indeed, I mean just look at the stuff that came out about the CSEC 384 headquarters, and the increase in their departmental budget and their staff. 385 Its just like well get into it with the Canada Pension Plan, with the 386 number of employees of the Canada Pension Plan, how it shot up through 387 the roof. But everything else has to be cut, we have no money. Well, 388 guess what? You know? Depends what we want done I guess. Theres 389 always money for that. 390 391 Amy: If I If I recall my numbers correctly, Im not looking at them firsthand 392 but I believe it was we had 70 employees within the Canada Pension Plan 393 Investment Board, and then when Harper came to power in 2006 he 394 immediately began a privatization process of the CPP, and um, he 395 appointed a whole new Board, and they put everything into the stock 396 market and employees shot up from 70 to 811, I believe it was. 397 398 Glen: Yes, Im looking at it right now, those numbers are correct. So I mean, 399 that is over a thousand percent increase. But yet, you know, we have to 400 control the civil service and we have-- you know, like give me a break. 401 Give me a break. 402 403 Amy: And CSEC-- CSECs budget also went up, even though were not 404 allowed to know what they do with it (laughs) what happens, you 405 know, what its earmarked for, what its needed for, what the requests are, 406 nothing whatsoever. So their budget went up, and the-- the CPP 407 Investment Board budget went up for them to do their jobs and everybody 408 else got cut, public service got cut, the veterans are suffering, um, senior 409 citizens are suffering, um young children and families 410 411 Glen: Yeah, I 412 413 Amy: its not good. Like the-- the list is nearly endless 414 415 Glen: Yup. 416 417 Amy: Now, everything that helped the public is being cut to reinforce the powers 418 of the bureaucracy. 419 420 Glen: I agree. This is not a democratic government that does this. There is no 421 way to explain it away as being one. Indeed. Alright well, I think weve 422 pretty much gone over C-622, and I agree with you that the best thing for 423 people to do is to read it. Find it. Look at it. And make noise. And as you 424 say, www.openmedia.ca and I imagine even CFF 425 426 Amy: Yup. 427 428 Glen: would have something to say about this, you know? I mean, they are 429 out there. Just-- come on people. 430 431 Amy: And email your MPs. Please! Like crazy. Youve got to let them know 432 this is an important issue, this does matter. Because theyve got to 433 prioritize their workload too, so whoevers making the squeakiest wheel 434 gets oiled the quickest. We need to speak up about this. 435 436 Glen: I agree, I mean even look at uh, C-13 and S-4 when they were just trying 437 to just slide them through with not much being said. Then they started to 438 come up, and then C-13 was basically defeated in the Supreme Court 439 before it ever got Royal Assent. So I mean, you know, even that 440 441 Amy: And if youll notice but heres the thing. In the way these things have 442 been defeated to protect Canadian privacy and our constitutional rights, at 443 the end of the day it has been lawyers who have had to bring that 444 argument for us again because the public is being quiet too quiet. Not to 445 say no ones making noise, yes there is some noise, but the ones actually 446 taking real action, its come down to us relying on all of our legal 447 community to know better and to help us. Weve gotten so lazy with 448 slacktivism, you know, most people only see a headline and dont actually 449 bother to read the story or theyll scan it, theyre not getting the full gist of 450 something and they just, you know, somebody else will do it. Well, look 451 whats happened to Canada as weve been behaving this way. This is our 452 fault too. Weve got to take responsibility for that. It is a democracy that 453 requires every voice to participate, we cant just lay down and wait for 454 somebody else. 455 456 Glen: Oh I agree with that a hundred percent. I mean anybody whos listened to 457 this show for a while, theyll know how many times I go off about why 458 dont people vote? You know, you can say all you want, that its uh, a one 459 day every four years make an X, go back home, blah blah blah, but the 460 bottom line is if there were 75 or 80 percent turnout at elections, they 461 would sit up and pay attention. Because that means people are watching. 462 And thats what has to happen. 463 464 Amy: Well, to give people some perspective, since the last federal election there 465 will be a little better than one million children who have turned 18 and are 466 able to vote in the next election. Those one million 18 to 19 year olds 467 would be able-- would have been able to affect the election so 468 dramatically that it would have put in a different party, let alone just take 469 away a majority. 470 471 Glen: Oh definitely. I mean uh, with all the analytics that have come out with all 472 the robocall noise and everything else, I mean, Harper got his majority 473 basically with 12,000 votes selectively across the country. Thats 474 ridiculous. Thats absolutely ridiculous! Theres 12,000 people in 475 Edmonton where I live that could have got off their ass and voted. You 476 know? I mean, I just dont understand it. People have to care. I-- I agree 477 with that a hundred percent. 478 479 Amy: I think thats probably another date on its own to discuss because I do 480 believe that probably the majority of it is protest, personal protest, um 481 without having much outlet to speak otherwise because uh, people arent 482 really familiar with returning their ballots as opposed to spoiling them. 483 484 Glen: Mm hmm. 485 486 Amy: But uh, yeah thththats-- thats definitely some of it, people have just 487 given up caring and that-- and that again plays into everything thats 488 happened in Canada and the slactivist ideal where we sit on our 489 computers, we click something and we think thats good enough, or we 490 sign a petition, we think thats good enough. Uh in Canada petitions 491 arent even legally binding whereas they are in the States 492 493 Glen: Yes. Well I was actually surprised to see that the uh CEO of uh, is it 494 Centerplate, the guy who was caught on uh 495 496 Amy: Kicking the puppy 497 498 Glen: camera in the elevator-- yeah, kicking the dog, he actually stepped 499 down. So, there you go. When-- when its a company where their 500 moneys on the line, okay well do something about that. But these 501 clowns 502 503 Amy: Yeah, thats where social pressure works. 504 505 Glen: Yeah. But these guys who actually control our lives ignore us. And 506 507 Amy: When youre talking about changing the laws that govern a country that is 508 um, an entirely different level than dealing with a single employee who 509 can be called a rotten apple and dealt with in that manner. But what were 510 talking about is actual laws that will govern all people, so thats not just 511 going to happen by complaining once or twice. Thats a-- a very invested 512 process that-- that we must all care about for it to happen, and if we dont, 513 things are just going to continue on this trajectory so that we have zero 514 privacy whatsoever and we really dont already, but were going to get 515 into that in a little bit. 516 517 Glen: Alrighty. Now um, like I said, that pretty well closes the-- the book on 518 C-622. Now how about we move on to what has happened to our very 519 sustainable, historically successful Canada pension plan. Now, your 520 article 521 522 Amy: Yeah. 523 524 Glen: your articles on it, uh, really cut to the chase. I mean uh youve-- 525 youve named the Investment Board of Directors, youve highlighted their 526 connections, um, everybodys good friend and outstanding gentleman 527 according to everybody, Nigel Wright, is uh, I think one day he will be 528 loathed in this country for what hes done, and what he continues to do. I 529 mean if you look at the slide show on the show page I have a meme of Mr. 530 Wright where it says $90,000? I make that a day now. You know, and 531 thats about it. 532 533 Amy: True. 534 535 Glen: I mean, people dont understand the connections that exist now between 536 the federal government, Onex, uh, military industrial complex 537 corporations, I mean, and pipeline companies, big oil, you know it kind of 538 puts a different view on it once you get exposed to these connections and 539 you see Harper and all his minions that continue to just rail for pipelines 540 and oil sands and pipelines and oil-- and well, its probably because they 541 put so much of our money into it. And I dont think Canadians have any 542 idea how far were in. 543 544 Amy: Id agree with that. Um, you know, it was a-- a two-part article, and it got 545 extremely great response from the public. And I did hear back from 546 opposition parties who had-- were concerned about it and they were 547 having their counsels look into it, and then everybody went silent. 548 Nothing more, uh even when I contact them again you know to say is 549 there any movement on this, just no words whatsoever. And thats 550 definitely concerning, you know, if we cant even communicate about 551 that, you know, how does any other party even feel about this, for that 552 matter? And when Harper-- he drastically, drastically changed the 553 structure of CPP and the way that it is invested-- it used to be invested in 554 safe products in-- in Canadian bonds and the majority of it and whatnot, 555 and he put it all into the private market. And when it went into the private 556 market, it went into the Alberta oil sands and the military industrial 557 complex. I mean, we-- our money is invested in the Iraq prison scandal. 558 One of the biggest companies, L L3 um 559 560 Glen: Yup. 561 562 Amy: that was responsible for the torture of uh, inmates and-- and a lot of 563 those people were just innocent civilians, uh were-- were lock, stock and 564 barrel in with them, you know, we covered some of their fines for 565 torturing these people through our CPP, and then were into Elbit as well, 566 and um, the American Predator drone, which is the one that is armed with 567 missiles that is responsible for all the civilian deaths in Pakistan, Yemen 568 and all those areas, so you know, youre talking about a few hundred 569 children, and I-- I figure-- the way I calculate that for the amount of 570 people that are paying into CPP from their cheque deductions, on average 571 each of us paid about five dollars each to kill all those children. When it 572 comes down to it at the end of the day. 573 574 Glen: Yeah I agree, I mean uh, I went over your articles about the corporations 575 names, and uh, theyre all very familiar to me. And you know like I said, 576 once you get a little familiar with them, its -- its quite obvious to me 577 why Harper seems to be such a warmonger. I mean L3 Communications 578 has worked with British Aerospace, theyve worked with Lockheed 579 Martin, they work with Boeing, they work with everybody, they were the-- 580 the corporation that actually bought out CAE, which was the biggest, 581 strongest Canadian aerospace corporation there was, they still exist 582 583 Amy: Were invested in that too, yup. 584 585 Glen: Yeah. You know, CAE still exists as an-- as an independent corporation, 586 but theyre puppets. You know? I mean uh, this whole F-35, you wonder 587 why they wont move off the F-35. Well were invested through the 588 Canada Pension Plan in just about every corporation that puts a nut or a 589 bolt on that damned thing. So I mean you know 590 591 Amy: Yes, were actually we-- actually were outright partners in that scenario. 592 Um, again through the-- the privatization of CPP and-- and thats a 593 colloquial term, but it was put into the private market from-- we used to 594 keep it in our Canadian investments, basically uh-- the government so 595 they were safe. But when it got put into private market we also became-- 596 CPP became a business partner of Onex, while 597 598 Glen: Yes. 599 600 Amy: Nigel Wright was in charge of everything. So together we bought um, 601 Tomkins and 602 603 Glen: Mm hmm. 604 605 Amy: they own Smith & Wesson, and then-- and they make a combat plane 606 and whatnot, and um so-- so together we partnered to buy them out with 607 Onex, so were 50-50 partners on that. And the company that we created 608 together was uh, Hawker Beechcraft, and 609 610 Glen: Mm hmm. 611 612 Amy: Theyre-- theyre of course making the warplanes, but theyre a direct 613 partner to Lockheed Martin and the F-35, so our money is directly in there 614 as a business partner. And through CPP were also-- weve got hundreds 615 of millions in Keystone XL and Northern Gateway as well on the oil side 616 of things. 617 618 Glen: Yeah, I agree with that, uh, Hawker Beechcraft, uh, theyre trying to sell 619 the AT6, the Texan 2, which used to be just uh, turboprop trainer aircraft, 620 now its been armed, and its being-- theyre trying to sell it as a light 621 attack aircraft, uh, theyll be trying to sell that to Iraq, Afghanistan, all 622 these countries that theyve completely obliterated, Well you know you 623 guys kind of have to start over, so here, take a look at this! Weve got 624 this. So, you know? So it does clear up 625 626 Amy: And 627 628 Glen: it clears up the ambiguity why Harper has taken such a warmongers 629 stance. Its because theres money in it. Directly. 630 631 Amy: Harper 632 633 Glen: you know? 634 635 Amy: if there were to be peace, we could not retire at this point. It-- it would 636 take all of our money if there were peace in the world for what we have 637 invested it in. And CPP is further implicated uh, in large investments in 638 the companies that are, uh, there are sanctions uh, U.N. sanctions and 639 proposals and what not, uh, for the illegal wall. 640 641 Glen: Hmm. Mm hmm. 642 643 Amy: You know, so 644 645 Glen: Yup. 646 647 Amy: our CPP is directly tied to issues that are about to go to the ICC for war 648 crime complaints. 649 650 Glen: (laughs) 651 652 Amy: Im not taking sides here, you know, its a complicated situation, um, but 653 thats where our money is, and its about to go to the ICC. 654 655 Glen: Well one of the biggest-- one of the biggest differences Ive seen with the 656 Canada Pension Plan compared to other funds like this around the world 657 with a-- a common publicly vested retirement fund for people is that the 658 CPP has such a big cushion that these guys can get away with doing very 659 risky things. They can take high risks and by law, the plan only has to 660 share 25% of their profits for benefits, and workers pay the rest. So 661 662 Amy: Yes. 663 664 Glen: these guys-- they can play all kinds of games with this money. They 665 dont have to go for sure things, you know? Its just Hey, you know 666 him? Yeah, we were buddies in school, hes got this thing, lets-- lets 667 go there. You know, this is just ridiculous. This is not about the publics 668 good. 669 670 Amy: But heres the real kicker. Theres-- the real kicker to all of this-- I dont 671 think a lot of the public realize, CPP, Canada Pension Plan, is not a tax. 672 Everybody looks at their paycheque, they see the deductions that come 673 off, youve got EI, Federal, Provincial tax, the whole nine yards, and 674 youve got your CPP deduction. CPP is not a tax. It is our collective 675 money together. It is not the governments to budget with. And thats 676 exactly what theyve done. 677 678 Glen: Yes exactly, it is not government revenue. They are merely collecting it on 679 our behalf. 680 681 Amy: Correct. 682 683 Glen: But yet, theyve turned it into basically a hedge fund is what theyve done. 684 685 Amy: For each of the 686 687 Glen: And 688 689 Amy: Prime Ministers pet projects. 690 691 Glen: Yes, it certainly seems this way. And there have been some bad 692 investments as well. Like, wasnt there one year 693 694 Amy: 695 696 Glen: one year the fund 697 698 Amy: 18.6 yeah, yeah we took a huge loss, I think it was 18.6% loss we 699 took one year because of the risky investments that they made, and that 700 may have been-- ImIm not sure whether it coincides with, um, the 701 period of time that uh, the fines needed to be paid for the torture in Iraq, or 702 if deals fell through for Keystone or Gateway pressures or anything like 703 that, I-- I havent matched it up with the market exactly what was 704 happening and politics at that time, but we took a massive loss that year. 705 And that-- that-- were not protected from that in any other year for that 706 matter because it is in the highest, riskiest private market 707 708 Glen: Well I-- you know, I mean, when you wanna put the money into these 709 shady no other word for it shady companies, I mean Barrick Gold? 710 They get sued all over the world. So and who ends up paying for it? 711 Canadian workers. You know? Like this is ridiculous. And then 712 713 Amy: And that was exactly what we were supposed to be protected from. But 714 715 716 Glen: Yup. 717 718 Amy: Harper changed that entirely. And I dont even know 719 720 Glen: Well 721 722 Amy: how that happened without anybody noticing. The changes went 723 through in C-36. And that was 724 725 Glen: Yes. 726 727 Amy: one issue that nobody raised. Not a single person. 728 729 Glen: Yeah, more of this wonderful omnibus legislation. Yes indeed. Now, if we 730 look at the Investment Board of Directors, I mean the connections here-- 731 this is nothing-- this is like organized crime. Theres no other description. 732 This is like the heads of the families getting together for the Commission. 733 Thats all this is. Like, Robert 734 735 Amy: Its a motley crew. 736 737 Glen: Yeah. Robert Astley, President of Sun Life, well, the Canada Pension 738 Plan purchased $109 million worth of stock in Sun Life. So that means he 739 gets to go on the Board? And thats-- theres no conflict there? Ian 740 Bourne, the Chief-- the Chief Executive Officer of SNC Lavalin, the most 741 disgraced engineering outfit in the world, they are banned from U.S. 742 contracts 743 744 Amy: Its now blacklisted. 745 746 Glen: Yeah. But even while you look across all Canada in all these Economic 747 Action Plan infrastructure bullshit projects, guess who engineers them all? 748 SNC Lavalin. You know? I mean, they paid bribes to Gaddafis family, 749 theyve paid bribes in Africa, theyve done this, theyve done that. Yet 750 they still get all this work in Canada, and the pension plan money goes 751 into them? And their CEO 752 753 Amy: How many Canadians looked in the mirror and said, I worked to pay to 754 off Gaddafi because we did. 755 756 Glen: Indeed. Now Ian Bourne is also on the Board for the Canadian Oil Sands 757 Limited, who Im very familiar with because they are the largest 758 shareholder in Syncrude. And Syncrude is in a very big lawsuit with 759 Greenpeace over the wanton death of wildlife. I mean, they were 760 convicted and fined, a token fine but still, I mean it sets precedent and 761 there will be more lawsuits, because they dont change the way they do 762 business. I worked there for 763 Amy: Sorry? 764 765 Glen: Yeah. No I mean, I spent more than five years of my life at Mildred Lake 766 for Syncrude, I know how they do things. And they dont change, you 767 know? 768 769 Amy: And now the scientist-- the scientists reports have come out about the-- 770 the mercury poisoning in the soil in the whole perimeter. 771 772 Glen: Yup. So you know 773 774 Amy: And thats new, thats new to deal with. But yup. 775 776 Glen: Thatll be comin down-- down the line as well, but I mean heres these 777 guys, screwing the environment, screwing aboriginal people around it, 778 screwing everything they can, but yet Canada Pension Plan drops more 779 than $80 million in there. Because oils such a dead-end business, theres 780 no money to be made. They need our help. And then not only them, 781 Exxon Mobil. I mean, Exxon Valdez look at all the spills, look at all 782 the disasters that Exxon Mobils involved with. Canada Pension Plan has 783 $553 million in Exxon Mobil. Why? I mean Exxon funded a lobby 784 against Kyoto that helped change public opinion that made it easy for 785 Harper to walk away from it. BP, British Petroleum. All you have to say 786 is Gulf of Mexico. Everybody knows whats going on there. But yet, 787 Canada Pension Plan has $347 million in BP. This makes no sense for 788 what this plan was supposed to be. 789 790 Amy: And let us not forget Nexen. (laughs) Were into that too. 791 792 Glen: Indeed. Nexen got $62 million of CPP money. And then they were sold 793 to China. Which raised concerns in the U.S., raised concerns a lot of 794 places but it still went through. You know? 795 796 Amy: So now that is a-- a Chinese state-owned enterprise that is using Canada 797 Pension Plan funds to prosper. 798 799 Glen: Ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous, you know? Theres too many 800 801 Amy: And let us not forget, they want Temporary Foreign Workers as well, so 802 its not like its even turning into jobs for Canadians. 803 804 Glen: Thats another issue. Not only do they have our capital, they refuse to use 805 our labour. And theyre allowed. 806 807 Amy: Right. 808 809 Glen: Thats what kills me. Theyre allowed. I mean, Trans Canada Corp. 810 TCPL. The guys behind Keystone. Harper, Oh, Keystones for sure. For 811 sure. Yeah well theres only $218 million of pension plan money it 812 TCPL. Enbridge, $200 million. Like, give me a break! No wonder that 813 this is the agenda that he has tunnel vision on. Because like you said, I 814 think the truth is if these industries suddenly fade away, Canadians are 815 toast. Our moneys gone. 816 817 Amy: Our money is gone 818 819 Glen: Unbelievable. 820 821 Amy: if we dont keep going down the oil track and the war track, our money 822 is gone. And were already losing it whenever there are social or political 823 blips on the radar, we take a hit for that every time that happens. 824 825 Glen: Unbelievable. Then we have the corporation Methanex, which is the 826 worlds largest producer of methanol for petrochemical use and for fuel. 827 Of course guys from Methanex are on the Board as well. Well of course! 828 829 Amy: Two of them. Douglas Mahaffey and Pierre Choquette. 830 831 Glen: But they only got $38 million from the pension plan. But then Pierre 832 Choquette is a Director at Telus, which got $116 million from the pension 833 plan. You know I remember back when Telus bought out BC Tel when it 834 was AGT, Alberta Government Telephones and they bought out BC Tel, 835 then suddenly they were this monolith on the landscape in 836 telecommunications. Where did they come up with all this money? Oh I 837 dont know, I guess when theres somebody you can phone in Ottawa and 838 get a cheques for $116 million, kinda helps it out. And 839 840 Amy: When the guys on the Board? Yeah. 841 842 Glen: Exactly uh, this is-- this is the thing I mean, like when-- when the 843 directors of these corporations are on this Investment Board, gee what a 844 surprise, all the investments are in their corporations. Theres 845 846 Amy: Every single time an investment would be made in each of the Board of 847 Directors companies, each one of them would have to declare a conflict 848 of interest and not be able to speak on that issue. Which means all of them 849 cannot speak on many issues. (laughs) So whos representing us? 850 851 Glen: And then we havent even mentioned the chartered banks. Of course 852 Heather Marlo Bloom, you know, shes on the Board from the Royal 853 Bank. The Royal Bank is only into the pension plan for $707 million. 854 855 Amy: Yeah that ones our largest uh, domestic holding-- singular domestic 856 holding, and that was happening right around the time of implication in 857 the Libor scandal. 858 859 Glen: And of course people remember the Royal Bank being the one busted for 860 temporary foreign worker. 861 862 Amy: That too. Yup, yup. 863 864 Glen: You know? Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Its just such a-- such a circle. 865 Such a circle. You know? And then uh oh, well you know, weve got 866 Robert Brooks, whos the Vice Chair of Scotiabank, weve got $537 867 million in Scotiabank. Scotiabank has been convicted of money 868 laundering, uh, all kinds of fraud in Central America, South America, they 869 were kicked out of some countries in South America twenty years ago but 870 you know, nobody-- hey, nobody says that. You know? Hey, theyre 871 Canadian. Yeah, oh yeah theyre Canadian all right. Its absolutely 872 ridiculous! And then of course, as you said, we have this partnership in 873 this fund with Onex. And Onex owns the air division of Raytheon. Who 874 anybody who knows anything about military industrial complex, Raytheon 875 is the largest manufacturer of air missiles in the world. Just about 876 everything thats on a fighter plane in a NATO country is made by 877 Raytheon. So if we keep having wars, we keep needing more missiles. 878 879 Amy: And that partnership caused the Canada Pension Plan, all of our retirement 880 funds, which is our pool of money and not a source of government 881 revenue, it made us a business owner of a defence company. 882 883 Glen: (laughs) How that is legal I have absolutely no idea. Im sure theres 884 absolutely nothing 885 886 Amy: Its our friend Nigel Wright. 887 888 Glen: Unbelievable. Like theres gotta-- theres no way that theres anything in 889 the Charter for the pension that says we will-- we will own a corporation, 890 never mind in that industry, we will own any corporation, a multinational. 891 But yet 892 893 Amy: And when I-- when I wrote that investigation, um, Mr. Wright was the 894 Chief of Staff for Prime Minister Harper, and I had a question at the time: 895 What would happen with conflict of interest when he did finally depart 896 that role, um because weve got lobbying rules and-- and what not, youre 897 not supposed to do that for five years after youve held a position like that, 898 but I wondered if when he departed he would resume his position at Onex 899 which again would make him the business partner, the legal business 900 partner to um, our ownership of-- of uh, Hawker Beechcraft, and doesnt 901 that present problems? And thats exactly what did end up happening. He 902 went straight back to Onex. So he is still in a sense managing our CPP. 903 904 Glen: From London now. Thats I guess 905 906 Amy: From London, and-- and-- and from the military viewpoint. 907 908 Glen: Yep. But you know, I mean its-- its like Arthur Porter being in uh 909 Panama, its like the biggest person from the robocalls being in Kuwait, 910 now Nigels in London. Out of sight, out of mind, nothing to see here, 911 move on. Ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. And again I would have to 912 say corporate media, hell of a job. Way to follow up. You know? 913 Ridiculous. Has anybody even gone to Panama to try to talk to Porter? I 914 mean its obvious 915 916 Amy: I dont 917 918 Glen: the government just wants him to die there. You know? My God. 919 920 Amy: I assume, so he was um, he was recently terribly injured in a prison riot in 921 La Joya where hes being kept right now. 922 923 Glen: (laughs) 924 925 Amy: He-- he 926 927 Glen: And I 928 929 Amy: was trampled on and lost consciousness, but um, but we havent heard 930 any updates from that yet. 931 932 Glen: Well weve all seen movies where theres a disturbance in a prison just to 933 get to somebody. And you know-- especially in a place like La Joya 934 which has quite a reputation. I dont see it being too hard to pull off. 935 What a surprise. I heard they just re-arrested his wife in Montreal as well. 936 937 Amy: Ooh, I didnt hear that yet. 938 939 Glen: Yeah I saw something come across Twitter about that. I have to probably 940 look 941 942 Amy: Do you know what for? 943 944 Glen: No, I dunno, Ill probably have to look at Le Devoir and see what they 945 have to say about it but, I dunno. But I mean, so again, so I mean you 946 know, with your work, its here. It can be seen. But how can this become 947 the issue it deserves to be in the public arena? 948 949 Amy: Well, that requires one: the public, and two: its representatives, and Im 950 really discouraged by the response from our MPs and the oppositions 951 parties. They are definitely aware of this, and nobody will speak about it 952 and I cant explain to you why, because I did make those inquiries, you 953 know? I tried to get some response from people and I should probably 954 clarify for everybody that my work was done absolutely without bias. It 955 was done professionally. And its as I have been going through personal 956 attacks that I have allowed myself to express my personal feelings about 957 this. And thats the premise that Im speaking to you about, and Im 958 sharing that, because its gotten to the point where this really needs to be 959 heard. I am a human being, I do vote just like everybody else, Im not 960 going to divulge how I vote but I am-- obviously care about politics and 961 what happens to our country like anybody else. So every journalist does 962 have their own personal opinion. You keep it out of your work. And I 963 have kept it out of my work. It-- it-- thats not what has driven anything. 964 But my conversation about it now, this is my personal point of view. 965 966 Glen: Excellent. Thats why youre here. (laughs) 967 968 Amy: Thank you. 969 970 Glen: Definitely, definitely. I mean the work speaks for itself. Theres no 971 question about that. And I just thought that maybe this would also help 972 you, getting you on here because you know, people want to connect work 973 to a person, and here you are. 974 975 Amy: Yes. 976 977 Glen: Right on. 978 979 Amy: And theres no machine doing it, and-- and the thing is-- is that there has 980 been so much backlash. And its been on a very personal level at my 981 home. But as we keep talking Im sure listeners will get more familiar 982 with how this situation developed and then we can explain the nitty gritty 983 of whats actually happening to me. 984 985 Glen: Okay. Well then if we move on to the complex situation of-- the situation 986 around Lake Huron with fracking, nuclear waste and conflict of interest 987 with members of cabinet, Im sure well get an awful lot closer to how you 988 are being affected personally by your work. 989 990 Amy: Yup. And it did stem um, from the CPP investigation. When you 991 mentioned the name Robert Brooks who was the Vice Chair of 992 Scotiabank, we invested $537 million in that company, but he also heads 993 Dundee Reit. CPP invested another $20 million in the parent company, 994 and that was the one that caught my eye because I knew it had some 995 relationship to MP Kellie Leitch, also known as the current Labour 996 Minister. She was a Parliamentary Secretary at the time quickly after she 997 was elected, and uh from the riding of where all the commotion was with 998 Helena Guergis. So Guergis was turfed and uh, Kellie Leitch was brought 999 in, and there were questions of whether she could even legally run here for 1000 her address because nobody knew her there, you know there were 1001 accusations of being parachuted, and this is the riding that I live in. So I 1002 had a lot of personal knowledge of the ins and outs of things that were 1003 going on, complaints and-- and backstabbing I guess youd call it. Uh 1004 and-- and it-- it-- it caught my interest like when the Dundee issue came 1005 up, I knew right away there was something that I needed to look into and 1006 so I did. And I started looking up um, the Labour Ministers history and I 1007 found that, what I believe anyway, to be a conflict of interest. This is my 1008 allegation from my research, and she was-- youre not supposed to-- if 1009 youre a back-bencher, you can take some outside work so long as it does 1010 not cause any conflict of interest with your job in Parliament. But if you 1011 are a Parliamentary Secretary or Minister youre not supposed to be 1012 allowed to do those things because theres just too much complication for 1013 bias. So she was a Parliamentary Secretary while also sitting on the Board 1014 of Trustees for Dundee Reit with a gentleman by the name of Ned 1015 Goodman. Ned Goodman is the owner of the Dundee parent company and 1016 all its um, subsidiaries. And so they were sitting at the same table together, 1017 and I knew that that company was getting money from CPP and I started 1018 digging further. And what I found out was that um, through Dundee Reit 1019 that um, Kellie Leitch basically became the landlord to the Government of 1020 Canada and the vast majority of its buildings as well as um, oh geez, the 1021 National Energy Board, um, Enbridge, um, you know they had a lot of 1022 environmental concerns for their clients that they still be allowed to do 1023 their things and what not. So there was obviously a need to clear conflict 1024 of interest. And I wrote that piece, and it was published and again, 1025 opposition parties got in touch, they said you know theyre trying, theyre 1026 looking at doing something about it and months went by once again 1027 absolutely nothing. Um, Im really confused by that. 1028 1029 Glen: It does seem to be just a blatant-- like you know again, uh this-- this just 1030 reminds me of nothing but organized crime. Thats all it reminds me of. 1031 Because theres all these connected people in different spheres and they all 1032 come to the same table in a room somewhere and, you know, they have a 1033 good time. I mean-- 1034 1035 Amy: And more-- moreover I discovered her income, um from sitting on that 1036 Board of Trustees, and she did not declare it with the Ethics 1037 Commissioner 1038 1039 Glen: (laughs) 1040 1041 Amy: which you need to do as a Member of Parliament, she-- she declared 1042 her-- her work at University of Toronto and Sick Kids and what not, but 1043 she left out anything about the Dundee company. And theres um, theres 1044 tons of evidence of exactly what she got paid. So for that money not to be 1045 accounted for is an issue I think that needs to be looked into. 1046 1047 Glen: Well we see where Christy Clark got her uh, game plan. I mean Clark did 1048 the same thing with uh, RCI so I see where the precedent comes from. 1049 1050 Amy: Yes, very very similar and then everybody just clams up and doesnt talk 1051 anything about it and hopes it will go away except for, um, a-- a lawyer 1052 who is the-- who is or was-- at the time was anyway, the Treasurer of the 1053 Ontario Bar Association. And he was noted in media, he would often give 1054 comments on different situations as being a Conservative Party member. 1055 Um, so he sent me a letter after that investigation of the Labour Minister 1056 and accused me of a number of things and wanted an apology, and the 1057 story to be taken down, um, he argued with me about parts that he-- he 1058 claimed were not true, and that I should be thankful to her for-- to-- for 1059 giving up being a doctor to become a parliamentarian and what not, but 1060 um I-- he said that he was contacting me um, on behalf of Kellie Leitch, 1061 but he didnt sign his document properly and he didnt carbon copy her, 1062 which was a red flag to me because I am very familiar with legal 1063 documents, um, again well get more on that later (laughs) 1064 1065 Glen: (laughs) 1066 1067 Amy: So uh so I noticed that and I-- I wrote him back at length, and he was 1068 rather coy with me, and I called him out on it and I sent a copy to the Law 1069 Society of Upper Canada and um, he never spoke again. But I also was 1070 not able to publish at the Huffington Post ever again. Every single story 1071 Ive submitted since that one has been declined. 1072 1073 Glen: Wow. Well that doesnt just happen out of the blue, thats for sure. 1074 1075 Amy: Well I did have a dispute with Marni Soupcoff, um when I was writing at 1076 uh, Huff Post, blogging there, uh Danielle Crittendon was my editor. Now 1077 she is the daughter of the person who founded Sun News, not um Sun 1078 Media that as (indiscernible) does on TV but the actual newspaper 1079 itself 1080 1081 Glen: Yes. 1082 1083 Amy: um yeah and-- and uh she is married to David Frum who everyone is 1084 quite familiar with as um, as a-- a Tory strategist, commentator and so on 1085 and so forth. She was absolutely wonderful to work with, um, as strange 1086 as people might think. She didnt have any issues about censorship, I-- I 1087 really enjoyed working with her. But then she was moved out and Marni 1088 Soupcoff was brought in. Marni, um, she has written for a number of 1089 mainstream publications, um a lot for the National Post as well, but shes 1090 also a Fellow at Fraser Institute. And 1091 1092 Glen: Hmm. 1093 1094 Amy: she was the one that began declining absolutely everything that I was 1095 submitting. And I did confront her, and I asked her if this was an issue of 1096 politics. And she responded that there were certain people that were 1097 selected to cover news like this, and that she was brought in to restructure 1098 things. 1099 1100 Glen: So the fact that 1101 1102 Amy: And-- and-- Ill also note-- but heres-- heres the other part. At the 1103 same time Ariana Huffington joined the Board of Directors of Onex. 1104 1105 Glen: That I did not know. 1106 1107 Amy: Yes. 1108 1109 Glen: Well, well, well isnt that interesting. That says a lot right there. That 1110 says an awful lot right there. So basically de facto your new editor was 1111 brought in to basically make sure you werent covering what you were the 1112 best at. 1113 1114 Amy: Anything important yup, which is uh what brought me to starting 1115 www.freethepresscanada.org. There was also 1116 1117 Glen: Well, I 1118 1119 Amy: Conservative-- Conservative interference um, a volunteer for the 1120 Labour Minister-- when I was covering elections for CBC both 1121 provincially and federally in print and uh-- uh online, and also on 1122 television, um, there was a campaign to try and get me um, axed from 1123 there. And eventually it was successful, its uh, there were complaints 1124 made, the producers had my back, uh, lawyer Peter Rosenthal got into the 1125 mix and he also had my back so I was fine to do what I was doing. I was 1126 writing an investigative series for CBC as well uh, one that included 1127 health care, which did um, name Dr. Leitch in the process of that, so thats 1128 kind of how that all arose, and there were some death threats at my home 1129 that needed to be reported to the police, um, they didnt want to take any 1130 action. Uh, they were not just against me but also Bob Rae, the leader of-- 1131 he was at the time the leader of the federal Liberal Party. Um 1132 1133 Glen: Mmm hmm. 1134 1135 Amy: so there was another lawyer that wrote to the OPP Commissioner about 1136 that about them not taking act-- because there were plenty of videos-- 1137 threatening videos posted and-- and written diatribes and-- and uh, this 1138 person was um, tracking my movements even when I was with my son and 1139 what not so it was a very serious issue. But nothing came of that, and 1140 three months after Harpers re-election, the Executive Editoruh, most of 1141 the Board was re-appointed by the Conservative government, conditions 1142 got harsh within CBC as youve seen a lot of people have trickled out the 1143 door because of what things are like, but I was actually told that they did 1144 not have use for the type of material that I was writing anymore and I was 1145 kindly let go and at the same time, um, Connect with Mark Kelly show 1146 was cancelled and I had done um, a segment that I was pretty proud of on 1147 that one. Uh when Harper was denying that the recession coming to 1148 Canada I did a good socio-economic clip that basically gave a lot of 1149 indications that it was, so a month later everything was gone. 1150 1151 Glen: Yeah like you said, the-- the fourth estate, uh the so-called free press 1152 that is supposed to be the eyes and ears of the Canadian public, basically 1153 has ears of corn stuck in their ears and their head up their ass by the 1154 sounds of it. 1155 1156 Amy: Uh for the most part it just does not exist in Canada any more. Thats just 1157 my humble opinion. Thats not to say there isnt good journalism 1158 produced, there is; journalists are tenacious people, they want to get their 1159 stories out. But the amount of gatekeeping and pressures that are on the 1160 industry right now are absolutely unfathomable, and because people are 1161 not buying print newspapers, youve got the executives that are caving to 1162 the advertorial to the point that uh, Globe and Mail is actually defending 1163 uh, having their-- having their reporters cover branded content, so 1164 basically a company will come to them, say hey we want you to write an 1165 article about us that makes us look really great. And that is what has 1166 happened to our news. And when somebody does manage to squeak by 1167 with a really great story that needed to get out, mostly its scrubbed from 1168 the internet within a few days. But I have put up a fight about that all 1169 along because my work is legitimate and its always passed vetting and 1170 gone a legal process before its published, and Ive made sure-- Ive stood 1171 behind it remaining out there. 1172 1173 Glen: Yes, that is true. That is true, you have always defended your work and 1174 with good reason. Because as youve said, it is accurate, you have nothing 1175 to be afraid of. Its your subjects that have something to be afraid of. 1176 Now, do you want to what do you want to talk about to kind of have a 1177 big picture of whats going on with Dundee and Bruce Power and this 1178 crazy plan that they have to combine fracking and nuclear waste storage? 1179 1180 Amy: Okay, so that was the next investigation that came up for me, and after I 1181 came up with the conflict of interest questions about the Labour Minister, 1182 I started looking more into what exactly Dundee was doing. And it turned 1183 out that they were heavily investing in the riding that the Labour Minister 1184 represents, in quite a complex situation. So, another branch of Dundee is 1185 um, one of the largest oil producers in Ontario, and a lot of people dont 1186 realize how much were producing here around Nanticoke and um, under 1187 Lake Erie, Lake Ontario, uh, were getting it from under the water, but 1188 they started to-- they want to move on land since fracking has come a lot 1189 more mainstream. And there are a lot of partnerships with uh, Calgary 1190 and the oil sands as well. Um, a lot of their executives are-- are 1191 consulting on the projects out here and theyre even providing some 1192 information for government on their behalf, which is a rather curious 1193 situation. But-- so this-- were talking right now about Lake Huron and 1194 the Great Lakes system. And I think most people have heard about the 1195 great geologic repository that Bruce Power wants to place approximately 1196 one kilometer from the shoreline of Lake Huron. And deep in the ground, 1197 I think its around 680 feet below the ground, they want to carve out the-- 1198 the rock and put in moderate level radioactive waste and store it there. 1199 Which could take anywhere from three thousand to a-- a hundred 1200 thousand years to decay to a level that would not impact human health. So 1201 this is a huge issue on its own. And American senators have been up here 1202 banging their drums saying You cant do this, you know, Thats right 1203 on the water, we share the great lakes, this is, you know around 40 million 1204 peoples drinking water, you dont even know what could go wrong, this 1205 is a newer technology Nuclear um-- for all intents and purposes is an 1206 unfinished science. They figured out how to do it but they didnt figure 1207 out what to do with the waste. So that still needs to be discovered one 1208 day. And 1209 1210 Glen: Yes. 1211 1212 Amy: were just kind of hobbling along in the meantime, um on-- on 1213 pacifying the problems. So theres that. And there have been public 1214 hearings, and the National Energy Board of course which the Labour 1215 Minister was the landlord of, and Im sure still has connections to her 1216 business friends that still hold those interests. Um, so the-- and the OPP 1217 also um, overstepped their bounds on that file. And all the people who 1218 were speaking up against the deep geologic repository and-- and wanting 1219 to make um, presentations at the hearings or that may be considering 1220 going to a protest, the OPP actually went to everyones house. They even 1221 did it to Americans. Got in touch with Americans, you know, What is 1222 your intent? So on and so forth, and they were criticized for intimidating 1223 the public. That they had overstepped their bounds, they cant do stuff 1224 that, and nobody really talked about it again. But then I found the-- 1225 pardon me, the Dundee company was purchasing-- um, investing in the 1226 land around here for fracking, and the Ontario government has been 1227 promoting the area for shale gas and oil and there are some um, likely 1228 profitable deposits all around the area that surrounds Bruce Power. 1229 1230 Glen: Hmm. 1231 1232 Amy: So its like less than a half a kilometer away, theyve been taking-- 1233 theyve been uh, sampling from-- from bore holes and what not, theyve 1234 done more than 360 of them in the region testing everything (coughs) 1235 pardon me, sorry. And theyre-- every year they go-- they hold the-- 1236 the oil and gas conferences and-- and theyre presenting more and more 1237 information, and as that was coming available Dundee was buying up 1238 more and more. So were now in a situation, um, hundreds of millions of 1239 dollars have been invested, there is no real regulatory clause that can deal 1240 with fracking up against nuclear. And this would be happening right next 1241 door to each other. Like literally right next door. Theres a hole in the 1242 ground with nuclear waste and they would be fracking underneath the 1243 ground immediately adjacent to it. And all science has pointed in the 1244 direction that fracking causes earthquakes. Even if they are on the smaller 1245 end. Were talking about disturbing nuclear waste now. And when Harper 1246 changed the Navigable Waters Act so that the waters werent covered any 1247 more 1248 1249 Glen: Mm hmm. 1250 1251 Amy: that took away oversight that would be needed for any environmental 1252 um, hearings or what not related to the fracking end of it. So this is not 1253 talked about. Nobody really knows about it except for what Ive written, 1254 and people look at it and go Oh whoa, thats huge and what would we 1255 do, and-- and-- and then they sit idle. (laughs) 1256 1257 Glen: (sighs) 1258 1259 Amy: And Im really honestly worried about that, and I-- I-- I started getting 1260 more and more flack from the powers that be um, when that story came 1261 out. I got a call from the Department of Homeland Security uh, so this 1262 is the U.S. and I started to notice that I was being surveilled online. Um, 1263 Ive also written an article explaining all of that, if everybody wants to go 1264 to www.freethepresscanada.org um, youll find all the investigations there 1265 to look them up. Um, so yeah that-- that ones-- that ones been quite 1266 intimidating. And its a combination of U.S., Canadian, France and 1267 Britain thats actually watching me over this. 1268 1269 Glen: Well the thing that I find just beyond reason is that you have these two 1270 industries basically right beside each other, you have Bruce Power, which 1271 is technically owned by TCPL, Trans Canada, our friends from 1272 Keystone 1273 1274 Amy: Oh, uh its owned by Trans Canada and OMERS Power Workers Union, 1275 which is an affiliate of CUPE, and thats uh-- those are strange 1276 1277 Glen: Ohhhh. 1278 1279 Amy: very strange bedfellows and-- and nobody will address that, I can get 1280 no response from labour whatsoever. 1281 1282 Glen: Wow. But the thing is, we have these guys who say, Well wed like to 1283 put this radioactive waste in this shale because we think its strong 1284 enough. And yet next door, we have frackers who are saying We can 1285 get hydrocarbons out of this shale because we can work with it, its soft 1286 enough. Well 1287 1288 Amy: Its soft enough, thats exactly it. 1289 1290 Glen: One of you are wrong. You know? One of you are wrong. But yet this-- 1291 like you said, this just goes on. Its-- its insane! I dont understand it all. 1292 1293 Amy: And the aquifers that would be impacted here, this is a-- a really, really 1294 serious issue. The Great Lakes system is one of the largest water source in 1295 Canada, fresh water sources, and its aquifers travel all the way out to the 1296 continental shelf. So if we were to seriously harm the Great Lakes, lets 1297 say there was an earthquake and something went wrong and-- and nuclear 1298 waste got into waters and-- and did anything, that could im-- that would 1299 impact every single Great Lake and all land connected through Ontario, 1300 Quebec, Manitoba, um, Pennsylvania, Ohio, uh, Illinois, I believe also 1301 Maine uh, if Im remembering right, uh, but the-- the aquifers are all 1302 connected for that entire area because the way the Great Lakes were 1303 formed, it was um, it was Lake Ir-- uh it was-- one of the-- one the oldest 1304 gla-- biggest glaciers which carved out the land that turned into Lake 1305 Algonquin--, sorry, my bad my bad Lake Iroquois, which drained 1306 into 1307 1308 Glen: Hmm. 1309 1310 Amy: the Great Lakes, so all of that is connected from that time period. 1311 1312 Glen: Unbelievable. And I mean this is all known science. They know these 1313 things, yet they just choose to ignore them. Which is 1314 1315 Amy: Well actually were still finding out a lot about our-- Ill call it the water 1316 highway, the way the aquifers run underground, and supply all the water 1317 to all the homes where everyone lives in the area. Um (coughs) 1318 Pardon me, sorry. Um, where was I going with that? Um 1319 1320 Glen: The water highway. 1321 1322 Amy: Yeah, it-- it its connected all the way to Chicago, Illinois. So if we do 1323 something terribly wrong up on the shore of Lake Huron, it can affect 1324 Chicago. 1325 1326 Glen: Yeah, which is at the very southern end of Lake Michigan, which is quite 1327 a ways away. 1328 1329 Amy: And the reason why we know this is more from U.S. study than Canadian 1330 study. Weve clawed back so much from our science, there are new 1331 technologies now which are giving us a better picture but uh, universities 1332 are paying for a lot of this work to be done so that governments dont. I 1333 mean thats not to say theyre not subsidized, I mean they definitely are, 1334 but universities have really taken the lead on this to try and get the 1335 information for us because it-- its-- its suppressed, non-existent, old, 1336 and all the new data thats really applicable to whats going on, were 1337 having to get most of it from the U.S. 1338 1339 Glen: Well that is uh, that is a straight effect of Harpers war on science. I 1340 mean, you know it doesnt matter if its the long form census, or the 1341 Experimental Lakes region, or what it is, if we just shut it down theres no 1342 more data, so it doesnt exist. And this is the way he thinks. 1343 1344 Amy: Id agree, theres business decisions being made, um, without any basis to 1345 make them from. Nothing is evidence-based anymore. 1346 1347 Glen: Its all profit based, its all corporate connection based. And yet, its the 1348 people who will pay the price undoubtedly, its never the corporations 1349 because you know, theyre everywhere. Theyre multinational. Just Oh 1350 well, we blew that, lets move there. You know? Unbelievable. 1351 1352 Amy: If they lose money they can just-- they can just increase the price of their 1353 product, which we end up paying for, or we end up paying for it in um, uh 1354 governments needing to deal with environmental emergencies that might 1355 arise, but we are-- the-- the public is definitely the ones that are-- are 1356 paying for everything in the long run. And corporations now see penalties 1357 for doing anything wrong just as a cost of doing business. So if youre 1358 going to earn $800 million and get fined $150,000, does it matter? 1359 1360 Glen: (laughs) Exactly. Exactly, its in their business model. You know, I 1361 mean Dupont in the States, Dow, theres been a lot, especially in the 1362 chemical and the petrochemical industries, that its part of their budgeting. 1363 They expect that theyre going to have to pay settlements, and they just 1364 put it in there. And I mean 1365 1366 Amy: Yes. 1367 1368 Glen: thats insane because to-- to them its just a cheque. But what about the 1369 people that causes that fine to be made? You know? Its just absolutely 1370 no regard. Its insane. So I mean 1371 1372 Amy: Thats exactly it. And were gambling with 40 million peoples drinking 1373 water. And its not like Michigan can afford any more catastrophes at this 1374 point in their political and fiscal trajectory. 1375 1376 Glen: No doubt. So what is the current status of this unholy marriage of 1377 fracking and nuclear waste? 1378 1379 Amy: It continues, and continues to be denied. Um, Dalton McGuinty, Premier 1380 Dalton McGuinty, the former Premier of Ontario, he publicly stated that 1381 there was no fracking in Ontario, and that he was considering a 1382 moratorium. And when he said that, at the identical time that he said that, 1383 the Ontario government was hosting um, a shale oil and gas conference 1384 and soliciting investment for these properties and there was actually one 1385 location that I have confirmed in Lambdon County that has been fracked 1386 already, and there were plans for more sites this summer, although I 1387 havent been able to confirm additional sites yet. So it has been happening. 1388 And um, Kathleen Wynne, she was then brought in as Premier and there 1389 has been zero discussion since shes taken the helm so Im not even sure if 1390 shes aware, to be honest. I-- I will give her that grace. No one has 1391 approached her with a question to-- to find out if she even knows, if she 1392 has a position on that, if she understands that this threat really does exist, 1393 but again thats part of the communication breakdown. 1394 1395 Glen: Well yeah, no news is good news. To an extreme. 1396 1397 Amy: Pretty much. And no matter who I have contacted, sent it to said You 1398 know, we really need to take a look at this, and the response is silence. 1399 Well Thanks for that and then silence. 1400 1401 Glen: (laughs) Well, it does seem to be the overwhelming culture, federally, 1402 provincially you know I mean uh, Im in Alberta. Im used to that. I 1403 mean 1404 1405 Amy: (laughs) 1406 1407 Glen: fact is ignored as a matter of course, its just what you do, it doesnt 1408 matter. Truth has no bearing on reality in Alberta, its been that way for 1409 decades. But the more I-- the more I learn about Ontario and even places 1410 like New Brunswick and Nova Scotia, where theres a lot more shit going 1411 on than you really would think, looking at the surface, this has become a 1412 culture that is uh, its self-defeating. It-- it 1413 1414 Amy: Yes. 1415 1416 Glen: really does nothing for anybody. You know? Well, for a few. We 1417 know who they are. But its-- its not sustainable, and its-- its deadly 1418 serious. 1419 1420 Amy: I think since the ease of the internet that people started to think that it was 1421 that easy to deal with problems, that if you just flip on the internet and say 1422 something that thats your contribution to your community and thats all it 1423 takes. But its not. The internet does help us communicate with one 1424 another, but the-- it does not effect change on the ground. 1425 1426 Glen: Thats true, thats true, I would-- I would compare it as to uh, having 1427 access to a database. You may know more 1428 1429 Amy: Yes! 1430 1431 Glen: you may know more, but thats all fact. Its history. It doesnt change 1432 anything, its already happened. Thats not how you change things. You 1433 have to get out there and do it. 1434 1435 Amy: Correct, and so you look when people took it to the ground in Nova 1436 Scotia, um, just yesterday they had-- theyre now proposing legislation to 1437 ban onshore fracking. 1438 1439 Glen: Yes, I did see that. And Im sure 1440 1441 Amy: But thats-- thats the difference 1442 1443 Glen: Yeah. I mean Im sure theyre gonna hear about it from just about every 1444 corner. Youre gonna hear about it from industry, youre gonna hear 1445 about it from people who want these so-called free trade deals, theyre 1446 gonna hear about it from Ottawa, theyre gonna hear about it from 1447 everybody. But, well see how far it goes. Well see if its not just 1448 politicking, and well see if it sticks. Because you know uh, being from 1449 Alberta Ive seen that too, you know its like, Oh well we have new rules, 1450 were not going to allow this and were not going to allow that Yeah 1451 well see, youre gonna have to get out there and actually do the tests to 1452 know if its happening. When you 1453 1454 Amy: Right. 1455 1456 Glen: dont test, theres no evidence to say its happening, so then theres no 1457 restrictions. I mean its the same thing with Mount 1458 1459 Amy: Thats exactly it. 1460 1461 Glen: its the same thing with Mount Polley. For these clowns to say This 1462 was just an accident, we didnt know it was gonna happen, that is 1463 ridiculous. Thats impossible. 1464 1465 Amy: And-- and another thing I should um, probably clarify for listeners. I-- 1466 per-- from my personal perspective, I am pro-environment. M-- Mother 1467 Nature is what gives life to everyone. We need-- without water, nobody 1468 can work. Basically thats what it comes down to. Um, but I am not 1469 oblivious to the fact that we need oil, you know? We live in Canada. We 1470 have snowy winters, its downright freezing cold. We need to heat our 1471 homes. We have a large land mass to navigate. We need fuel to get to 1472 work. Im not ignorant to those things. We cant just turn off oil, you 1473 know like its a tap, turn it off and say Oh well were just gonna make 1474 everything solar now, it is a very long process, but what were not doing 1475 is looking at integrating greener technologies and mitigating things. 1476 Weve stopped testing, weve stopped regulating, like weve given it an 1477 absolute free for all to do as much damage as it could possibly want to do 1478 to us and make us pay for it. And thats what is not okay. 1479 1480 Glen: Yeah I agree with that, I saw a fact online today that said in 1980 in North 1481 America, uh fossil fuels was 88% the generation of energy. In 2012, we 1482 had dropped all the way to 87%. One percent. Thats it. 1483 1484 Amy: Right, and it 1485 1486 Glen: Yeah. 1487 1488 Amy: doesnt make much sense. We know that were 1489 1490 Glen: No. And 1491 1492 Amy: destroying the earth with the methods that were using, and by not 1493 regulating, not testing, not keeping our standards to a higher level, were 1494 just creating so much damage now that whole communities are dying from 1495 it that are down river. 1496 1497 Glen: And those people in the big picture, the way things work, theyre just the 1498 losers. You know? Its not like 1499 1500 Amy: Thats just the facts. Yeah. 1501 1502 Glen: Yeah. You know? Thats just how it is. Sorry for your luck. Thats 1503 insane. Thats ultimately insane. And the one thing I do like that-- that 1504 has been changing a bit, and I think youve spoken to this too, is that 1505 Canadians are starting to understand that the only people left that have 1506 anything to say about their land, their water, their air are First Nations. 1507 And we have to stand with them. And we have to support them, and we 1508 have to help them. Because if they lose, its over. 1509 1510 Amy: I agree with that, I think that theyre the last stopping point that we have 1511 left right now, because everybody else laid down, um, theyre the only 1512 ones that are still on the ground, uh, getting their message across, theyre 1513 the only ones that have legal mechanisms left to help them and protect 1514 them. And it costs a lot of money though to engage them, so theyve got 1515 all these court cases, one after another and then the government appeals it, 1516 and it always goes to the Supreme Court, and every last time they win. But 1517 that takes a decade, and 1518 1519 Glen: Yup. 1520 1521 Amy: millions of dollars. So, I think the government is looking at it for trying 1522 to run them out for time and money that way 1523 1524 Glen: Yeah. 1525 1526 Amy: and-- and thats the philosophy in dealing with that. So we really do 1527 need to support the in what theyre doing. And whether you agree with 1528 them or not, they are a self-determ-- every tribe is self-determining, uh, 1529 the way their community is going to work, it is not our right to criticize 1530 what that choice will be. Because theyre also taking a lot of flack for 1531 standing up too. You know that theyre-- theyre-- theyre surveilled by 1532 CSEC. (laughs) And they know it. 1533 1534 Glen: Oh definitely, definitely, theres no doubt about it. I mean all you have to 1535 do is look at the uh, video from-- from encounters like Elsipogtog and 1536 everywhere else, I mean you know, theres all these settlers in camouflage 1537 with rifles, and theyre blocking the road and beating a drum. Like, come 1538 on! 1539 1540 Amy: Yes. 1541 1542 Glen: Like you know, there-- theres no-- theres no measure of reality in this 1543 response, its-- its oppression. Flat out oppression. Now, we are down 1544 to only 23 minutes left in the live telecast, and uh 1545 1546 Amy: Oh! 1547 1548 Glen: and you know like-- like I said to you before, we can go into overtime, 1549 youre welcome to stay on as long as you want, Ill just remind the 1550 audience that to hear overtime live you have to call in and be on the 1551 switchboard, but since we are down to now 22 minutes, would you like to 1552 move into what this has cost you, personally? 1553 1554 Amy: Sure. So 1555 1556 Glen: Okay. 1557 1558 Amy: the uh, the backlash from-- from law enforcement and government 1559 actors has been really wild. Um, nothing I could have possibly imagined. 1560 And there is a publication ban on some of what Im about to say, uh I 1561 and so I-- I cant go into tremendous detail, but if I break some of those 1562 rules now then so be it because the world needs to hear this. So, I got the 1563 death threats from a uh, Conservative Party volunteer. And I went to the 1564 OPP and tried to report that. And the OPP would not act. Now, at that 1565 time we had a lot of commotion in our area and weve just discussed you 1566 know, a lot of the politics, environment, uh business, possible conflicts of 1567 interest, and we also had election campaigning. And Julian Fantino was in 1568 the area, and hes the former head of the entire OPP, I only have OPP 1569 where I live, Im not in a large city so we dont have a regional police 1570 force. And 1571 1572 Glen: Okay. 1573 1574 Amy: um, you know Im-- Im not saying about Mr. Fantino, its just that he 1575 was here. So I would assume that our police force um, you know, was 1576 really happy to have the former top cop around with everybody on their 1577 best behaviour and nothing could go wrong. And it was the timing of 1578 these death threats, I had no choice but to report it, they were really very 1579 scary and they were tracking my movements. Um, so when they wouldnt 1580 do anything, the OPP Chief actually uh, had quite a bit to say to me about 1581 deserving death threats because he says I was writing for CBC, and it was 1582 a left wing publication and what did I expect, and I was basically inviting 1583 these threats by aligning myself with the public broadcaster and get used 1584 to it. And my son was a witness to that. And he was fifteen at the time. 1585 And he did get upset, not anything outrageous, not misbehaviour, but he 1586 asked the Chief, he said How could you possibly speak that way to my 1587 mom? You know, how could you not protect her? And uh, five days 1588 later, the OPP went in my sons school record and retrieved his photo, 1589 without a warrant, and opened a file on him, and pressed charges. For 1590 something he did not do. And he has been exonerated by the court. And 1591 the constitutional rights abuses have been so severe that um, Rocco Galati 1592 is representing my son to deal with these issues and get it all sorted out. 1593 It-- its-- its half dealt with and half not. And we went to court, uh this is 1594 prior to Rocco signing on, and I got a-- a court order for all the 1595 documents, police notes and what not, uh to be released and so that I could 1596 share them with the Minister of Education, Minister of Community Safety 1597 and Corrections and the Minister of Youth Services so that they could call 1598 for a public inquiry into abuse of power, um, and inappropriate 1599 relationship between the OPP and the school. Quite, quite complex. Uh, 1600 the Crown was represented, the OPP was represented, the school board 1601 was also represented, and we were successful and they were not. Um, 1602 then I found they went in my sons school record a couple more times, and 1603 an allegation was trumped up. And they-- the first date on it, they found 1604 out that my son wasnt even a student at the school, and so they kept-- 1605 they went back in his school record about three times to come up with a 1606 date that he at least would have been there and kept changing the date of 1607 the allegation. They wouldnt even tell us what he was accused of when 1608 they charged him. Uh, which you cant do. (laughs) Uh, it-- it was-- 1609 and they-- they-- they withheld um, at least half the file for a year and a 1610 half, turned our lives absolutely upside-down being in and out of court, 1611 and now the, uh, the Crown Attorneys office will not forward all of the 1612 documents that they were ordered to forward-- forward, and the 1613 recipients-- the school board recipients, uh, has refused to receive them 1614 even thought that was part of the order. So, between the OPP and the 1615 school board, uh with direct interference of the OPP, my son was illegally 1616 expelled and kept from school for a year and a half. Which you cannot do 1617 because every child has a right to an education. This is massive, massive, 1618 massive abuse of power and constitutional rights. And I knew that things 1619 obviously were very difficult then. Um, but then I noticed the surveillance 1620 online. And there are a number-- theres six now actually, um, companies 1621 that-- that perform internet surveillance, and they actually-- its actually 1622 media surveillance. So what they can do is everything I publish and what 1623 they are doing, like I have actually found proof of this and its also in the 1624 investigations that are on www.freethepresscanada.org, they track 1625 everything I write, they psychologically assess it for semantics, the text, 1626 and then every single person who speaks about it, shares it, as it goes 1627 through the entire internet 1628 1629 Glen: Mmm hmm. 1630 1631 Amy: they are also assessing who reads and-- and speaks about it, um, to see 1632 you know whether Ive affected them or not. And that sounds like a really 1633 outrageous idea until you read the article, because I have laid out 1634 everything and how it happens, and I have actually presented the first 1635 company that I discovered doing it. And a week after I did that, uh, Ed 1636 Snowden, uh another Ed Snowden leak came out about um, France 1637 surveilling Canadian journalists exactly as I said I was being surveilled. 1638 And CSIS and our government did nothing about that. But my troubles 1639 have increased, and as I have been to political meetings to speak about my 1640 investigations and to provide the information, especially the 1641 water/fracking/nuclear issue, Ive had the OPP try to enter my vehicle and 1642 leave me a note that they did. And I still have proof of that. Um, and then 1643 uh, I went to speak at a university to give a seminar about this information 1644 and elaborate on some of my research because as-- as days go by I just 1645 keep finding out more and more, and um, three days later I got a call from 1646 my town that they are-- they-- theyre fining me for being on well water 1647 and they have filed papers to seize my house now. And our Mayor-- uh, 1648 Stephen Harper comes to vacation in my town as do some senators and 1649 other MPs and its a rather popular place that way for Tory members, and 1650 my Mayor did um, endorse the Labour Minister and the Tory party and 1651 there was uh, quite some ruffled feathers about that because he used the 1652 whole town to do it just to let you know how connected that is. And of 1653 course the OPP is on the budget of the town. Um, so if I dont come up 1654 with fifteen-- about $15,000 now, I have-- theres less than thirty days 1655 left to do this, theyre going to auction my house and take it from me. 1656 Some friends of mine have started and Indiegogo campaign uh, that is 1657 listed in the article and Ive tweeted it a number of times. Um, if anybody 1658 wants to check me out on Twitter, its @MsAmyMacpherson. Um, Ill put 1659 it up again so people can see it, but thats what Im up against right now. 1660 They are actually trying to take my home now. And if they could get rid 1661 of me out of this area, and this is based on a water issue, and theyre using 1662 Agriculture Canada to seize my home, so thats a federal entity, um I 1663 imagine that they figure they can get rid of me to stop talking about this 1664 problem. And I do believe its that big of a problem especially in light of 1665 connections to the NSA and Department of Homeland Security. I do have 1666 a CSIS handler who calls me from time to time to keep tabs on what Im 1667 doing, and Ive discovered further information about him and CSEC. Um, 1668 I have another investigation that needs to come out that I havent managed 1669 to find a mainstream partner with yet. CSEC is operating as a P3, Public 1670 Private Partnership 1671 1672 Glen: Mm hmm. 1673 1674 Amy: I dont believe theres any oversight of the private end of things, and my 1675 CSIS handler is actually employed by a defence contractor in the U.S. for 1676 the NSA, although he is um, reportedly part of CSIS. And theyre running 1677 the NSA spying operation from a Native reserve. 1678 1679 Glen: How convenient. How convenient. 1680 1681 Amy: Legally its um, a nightmare. How to sort that out, uh from a government, 1682 legal and-- and First Nations type of perspective, um but I am talking 1683 about the U.S. so I-- Im not-- Im not as familiar with as how uh the 1684 sovereignty of their reserves work, but I do believe this presents quite 1685 another spin on the issue. 1686 1687 Glen: Yup. 1688 1689 Amy: And again, no mainstream wants to go near it because theyre all afraid of 1690 the intelligence of this. If Im going through this and everything Im 1691 doing can be tracked which includes my GPS movement at every moment, 1692 theyre afraid it could happen to them. And this is how news is being shut 1693 down. 1694 1695 Glen: Unbelievable. Absolutely unbelievable. 1696 1697 Amy: It does sound unbelievable, and I can only invite everybody to the website, 1698 www.freethepresscanada.org because it-- its all there. And Ive included 1699 all sorts of evidence to back it up so that you dont have any questions. I 1700 know that one of the companies surveilling me for sure is doing it on 1701 behalf of the OPP, the Ontario Provincial Police, um, andand-- yeah. I 1702 mean where do you go from there? 1703 1704 Glen: Yeah. Well when I said unbelievable, I didnt mean to say that it actually 1705 is. I know its happening, its just that you know, its-- its beyond any 1706 sort of premise that you could see happening. You know? And 1707 1708 Amy: Well it was-- Im the one that it is happening to, and it was 1709 1710 Glen: Yup. 1711 1712 Amy: unimaginable to me, and I had to go through such a long process of 1713 gathering all the evidence to even prove that this was happening to be able 1714 to say it because as a journalist you do not say anything that you cannot 1715 thoroughly back up. And I had to go through uh, so much torment to get 1716 to that point to be able to collect it all. 1717 1718 Glen: What about-- Im curious, what about the other people who live near you? 1719 Like, have you been ostracized? Do you get any support? Do people like 1720 not even see you anymore? Like-- like whats the deal? Like there must 1721 be some effect for people who live close to you as well with this type of 1722 prevalent intimidation. 1723 1724 Amy: Uh its basically just whisper talking, you know, people will whisper 1725 about it but they dont want to speak about it directly, its just-- its like 1726 having the plague, pretty much. (laughs) Um, you know, some people are 1727 even afraid to go to my site and read whats there because of you know, 1728 could they be watched too? But this is the establishment accomplishing 1729 exactly what it wanted to, and if anybody has any questions, Well how 1730 did Canada get like this? youve got your answer, and everyone is 1731 backing down from it. And I havent. And Im paying for that. 1732 1733 Glen: Indeed you are. That is correct. And yeah, thats-- thats a perfect 1734 explanation in a nutshell, you refuse to play the game. And this is the 1735 price. Well, your Indiegogo has been posted in the chat a few times 1736 tonight. As soon as I can get back on Twitter when were done here, I wil 1737 be putting it out there. And uh, Ill tell you right now, Ill tell you right 1738 now Amy, I might be unemployed but I dont give a shit, Im giving you 1739 some money. This is uh, this is ridiculous. You deserve every type of 1740 support that you need, because what youre doing nobody else will do 1741 obviously. And it needs to be done. 1742 1743 Amy: Thank you, thank you. 1744 1745 Glen: It needs to be done. Definitely. Definitely. And 1746 1747 Amy: I cant say its not scary. Ive never been this close to losing everything 1748 Ive got in my life, um, especially when I know Im standing on the truth 1749 and all the evidence is there, and so many people are just really afraid of it 1750 because its such a big idea, like these are-- are huge issues, I get that. But 1751 if everybody goes silent now, its not just me whos getting hurt, its 1752 everybody. 1753 1754 Glen: Yeah. Exactly. Exactly the-- this isnt-- I mean theyre making it 1755 extremely personal with you. But the issue is not personal. Its very 1756 public. It should be extremely public. But thats their whole 1757 1758 Amy: Thats exactly it. And they keep me tied up with all of the shenanigans 1759 going on so that I cant concentrate on my work, I cant sleep well, you 1760 know people come to my house on a daily basis. Um, the article is-- is 1761 quite something to read for anybody who hasnt, and theres witness to all 1762 of it, if I-- if its not documented by photo or video, then there are actual 1763 witnesses to every single thing I have said. 1764 1765 Glen: I can imagine-- like I understand that youre working on a book. Is that 1766 right? 1767 1768 Amy: Yes. Yes. 1769 1770 Glen: Do you see a problem getting it published? 1771 1772 Amy: I think that I will likely have to look at the U.S. market for that, um, but 1773 then again we have yet to see whats going to happen when I come out 1774 with the story of um, the intelligence community working as P3s and 1775 exactly how theyre doing that. I-- I-- theres um, theres-- theres likely 1776 to be more surprises for me on the horizon, but I wont stop telling the 1777 truth. And-- and because I have been attacked so deeply and so 1778 personally, it just drove the point home more that there really is that much 1779 on the line if they would come after me and my family like this to shut the 1780 talk down about that. 1781 1782 Glen: Yeah. Yeah, you-- yeah, thats-- thats proof. What you have is 1783 legitimate and big. Theres no doubt about that. Theres no doubt at all. I 1784 would have to agree. 1785 1786 Amy: You know there are other people-- there are other people who have had 1787 their homes broken into, I believe there were two in Alberta who were, 1788 you know, working on oil files or ene-- ene-- energy files of some sort, 1789 they had their homes broken into, their computers and all their files stolen. 1790 I have not had that happen, but Im pretty sure from the amount of 1791 surveillance that Im under, that my watchers are well aware of how many 1792 different offline locations that (laughs) Ive-- Ive backed my work up. 1793 Um, you know so if that does happen then-- because someone has-- has 1794 um, removed my biometrics from my computer, which is 1795 1796 Glen: Mm hmm. 1797 1798 Amy: confirmed by Hewlett Packard as a an intrusion that they have never 1799 even seen before. They didnt know that there was technology capable of 1800 doing that. 1801 1802 Glen: Yes um, I am familiar, we have talked about that, um, what Amys talking 1803 about is her computer had fingerprint scan for access, and her prints were 1804 removed from her computer remotely. Now if that doesnt paint a picture 1805 of a government intelligence agency, I dont know what does. Now also 1806 the thing about the P3s in the intelligence community, I think anybody 1807 who pays attention, they know it exists. But it is that proof that were 1808 missing. All we have to do is look at outfits like Booz Allen Hamilton, 1809 TRW, Raytheon, Lockheed Martin, who has signed a database agreement 1810 with the Alberta government, what can go wrong there? Uh, you know 1811 and its-- plus we have the perpetual cancer of Blackwater, Academy Z or 1812 whatever theyre calling themselves this week, I mean, its out there, its-- 1813 its known. But 1814 1815 Amy: But you know how nobody can prove it? 1816 1817 Glen: Yeah. 1818 1819 Amy: I can. I have all the evidence. 1820 1821 Glen: Exactly. 1822 1823 Amy: And the-- the-- the pressures that Im under right now about trying to 1824 take my house are whats keeping me from writing that because Im 1825 scrambling to try and deal with this now, it was scrambling to deal with all 1826 the legal things with my son and until we could get Mr. Galati to take 1827 over, now its scrambling about my house, its always keeping me on edge 1828 and having to respond to all these attacks on my home and my family and 1829 myself that are keeping me from doing that work. And that is the next 1830 thing that needs to come out that I want more than anything to publish. 1831 And also cannot find someone to work with me. Now, granted I have only 1832 tried Canadian media, and Ive got to branch out now to the U.S. and to 1833 Britain, um, see what the response is there. They do seem to have some 1834 more courage left in their media, but the U.S. is under a program right 1835 now, um, the U.S. government has put a monitor in every major 1836 newsroom, whether television or print 1837 1838 Glen: Mm hmm. 1839 1840 Amy: to stand over the shoulder of editors now, quote: to see how they make 1841 their decisions in which stories will be accepted or denied. 1842 1843 Glen: Thats what I would call reverse embedded, thats what that is. But uh, Id 1844 just like to say that were under 90 seconds for the live show on the web. 1845 This is pretty much your last warning, people, were gonna keep going for 1846 a bit. Right, Amy? 1847 1848 Amy: Yes. And thank you so much 1849 1850 Glen: Okay. 1851 1852 Amy: to everybody for listening, you know? Talk to your friends, talk to your 1853 family, read the articles, Ill start posting them on Twitter, you can find 1854 them all on my website and Im sure Glen has been posting them as well. 1855 Education. But you cant just stop at education either. There needs to be 1856 real action. 1857 1858 Glen: Indeed. Now I-- I-- I was saying that anybody who listened tonight 1859 would get their eyes opened. Well anybody who did listen, your eyes are 1860 now opened. So, read it. Learn it. Act on it, and support this woman in her 1861 battle, shes fighting for everyone. Now anybody whos not going to 1862 listen live who will wait for overtime in the archive, okay, thats your call. 1863 But I thank everybody for listening, up to twenty users in the chat. Thank 1864 you everybody. Excellent turnout, uh, thank you for listening to the View 1865 Up Here. 1866 1867 Amy: Thanks guys! 1868 1869 Glen: Yeah. And were now in overtime. 1870 1871 Amy: Okey-dokey. 1872 1873 Glen: (laughs) Well I hope youre not talked out. 1874 1875 Amy: No, not at all, you know, I could go all night, I-- Im living this so Im 1876 steeped in every last part of it. If anybody has questions, please ask, you 1877 know and Ill-- Ill answer whatever you like so long as Im allowed to 1878 say it. 1879 1880 Glen: Well we didnt get a lot of people who called in, we had a good number 1881 listening live. We did well. We had a good attended show. But you 1882 know again, like I told you before, with the phone number that Im stuck 1883 with BTR is New York City, and we dont have the-- we dont have the 1884 phone plans like Americans do, I mean they can phone anywhere, and its 1885 all the same. We dont get that break up here, so I mean, not a lot of 1886 people phoned in live but you know basically if theres anything else that 1887 we havent gone over that you wanna go over, go right ahead. 1888 1889 Amy: One last thing, yup. Um, so we talked about Bill C-622, and then I 1890 1891 Glen: Mm hmm. 1892 1893 Amy: also spoke about metadata and public information. And the difference 1894 between those things, so what C-622 does not do is protect anybody from 1895 the surveillance that Ive been talking about online. The psychological 1896 assessment of what you write on the internet and responses to my articles 1897 and the GPS tracking that-- that goes around, uh, this is all a gray area 1898 that is not legislated in any single country right now. And a lot of people 1899 are talking about it strictly as metadata, but thats not all it is. Like, the 1900 companies are actually taking copies of what I write, and copies and 1901 theyre-- theyre-- theyre cataloging it and storing it. Every single thing 1902 people say on the internet about these stories. And watching it. And there 1903 is nothing we can do to stop that at present. Its-- its 1904 1905 Glen: Yup. 1906 1907 Amy: veritable stalking. Its stalking. You cant get around that. If youre 1908 tracking someones GPS movement at every moment of the day that is 1909 updating on a one minute basis, that is stalking! 1910 1911 Glen: Yeah, its just like when you were talking about the uh, semantics and the 1912 uh, grammar recognition software basically that theyre using, they are 1913 looking for key words, key phrases, key sentences. And they do have the 1914 ability and the technology to scan unbelievable amounts of data looking 1915 for those words together. And this is what 1916 1917 Amy: And theyre 1918 1919 Glen: gives them their flags. 1920 1921 Amy: And theyre also building maps of these networks of the people who talk 1922 about different stories, so this is all of the public thats on the internet. 1923 This is every major news audience. And the company that I first 1924 discovered is called Spotter, and its located in France, and they have 1925 contracts with the U.K. Home Office and the European Commission. Now 1926 the Home Office is in charge of MI5, GCHQ, which is the partner to the 1927 NSA and Canadas CSEC. Um, so we 1928 1929 Glen: In Five Eyes, yeah. 1930 1931 Amy: know-- we know that theyre doing defence contracts. But with the-- 1932 the European Commission especially, the specific program is media 1933 surveillance and doing this. 1934 1935 Glen: Mm hmm. 1936 1937 Amy: And of course it was the Ed Snowden leak about France spying on 1938 Canadian reporters, so you know, Canada says uh, Well we dont spy on 1939 any of our own people, U.S. says We dont spy on any of our own 1940 people. It really doesnt matter. (laughs) They just pass it off to one 1941 another, and then give the information back to each other. Its an absolute 1942 loophole, there is zero protection whatsoever, if you thought your 1943 government wasnt watching you, they are theyre just doing it through 1944 the contracted person that is able to. And even 1945 1946 Glen: Exactly. 1947 1948 Amy: And even with 622 1949 1950 Glen: This is 1951 1952 Amy: you know, they might not-- it might be illegal to steal your emails and 1953 keep those, but its still not considered illegal to psychologically examine 1954 you and everyone you know, and track all of your movements. 1955 1956 Glen: And also with 622, I dont see it mentioning the Five Eyes Agreement at 1957 all, so maybe-- maybe CSEC cant keep your emails, but NSA can and 1958 hand them over to CSEC 1959 1960 Amy: Thats exactly it. And that has been 1961 1962 Glen: you know? 1963 1964 Amy: that has been one of the larger issues, you know even when we get 1965 reports from the-- the CSEC watchdog, um it-- it basically the-- th-- 1966 they just started telling us how many Canadians theyve kind of surveilled 1967 by accident, so that numbers low, that numbers only around 66 for the 1968 last year that theyve specifically noted they have done in error that they 1969 should not have. 1970 1971 Glen: (laughs) 1972 1973 Amy: But the number that they will not report is how much intelligence they 1974 accept from the other agencies on Canadians. They will not release that 1975 number for anything, and thats what Im talking about. 1976 1977 Glen: Yeah, and Im sure they all have laws, etcetera, in effect that says that one 1978 cant say what comes from the other. You know? Theres just-- theres 1979 no way, I mean, theyve got this game rigged before they even play the 1980 game, so 1981 1982 Amy: And Im pretty sure that the Department of Homeland Security calling my 1983 house, and the company that I have discovered that it is-- that is an NSA 1984 contractor confirms that the U.S. is watching me. 1985 1986 Glen: Yup. 1987 1988 Amy: As a Canadian journalist. And I also have the confirmation that France is 1989 watching me, as a Canadian journalist. And then there was a-- another 1990 Snowden leak about uh, Babar and Snowglobe spy campaigns, and that 1991 was not covered by any Canadian media except for the Globe & Mail, and 1992 theyve wrongly framed it as um, France spying on Canada. But France 1993 were contracted by Britain to do it, you know, so this is part of the Five 1994 Eyes, they werent working against them. 1995 1996 Glen: Well that would be their out to frame it as well, because France is not in 1997 Five Eyes, but yet it fell within the Five Eyes parameter, just using a third 1998 party and yeah, exactly. And these are the things that they just neglect to 1999 include, they just omit by you know happenstance, and it changes the 2000 entire context, the focus, everything. And they are so good at it. And 2001 people are just not aware of how easily things can be mis-informed. That 2002 is the problem. 2003 2004 Amy: And-- and manipulated, and I am living proof of what can happen when 2005 that kind of information is manipulated without constraints. Because 2006 thats exactly how theyre getting to me and continue to get to me and do 2007 this on a daily basis. I mean it-- it-- uh, the show started tonight at 9 PM; 2008 at 3 PM on the nose, the RCMP of Ontario sent me a message on 2009 Facebook, just letting you know theyre there. You know? 2010 2011 Glen: Yup. 2012 2013 Amy: How many-- how-- how many of you get messages from the RCMP? 2014 2015 Glen: Not publicly, thats for sure. And thats another thing too. They do it 2016 publicly so everybody you communicate with may see it. You know? I 2017 mean 2018 2019 Amy: It was-- it was a pri-- it was a private message that-- that was sent 2020 2021 Glen: Oh, okay. 2022 2023 Amy: and Im the one that chose to post it. But the point is they know-- uh-- 2024 it-- Im quite sure that my watchers are well aware that I continue to post 2025 everything that they do, because thats one of the few things that I can do 2026 to insulate my family at this point is to just keep documenting it and 2027 putting it up. Um, so I would anticipate that they realize I would say 2028 something, because thats all Ive ever done in dealing with this, but they 2029 continue to do that. 2030 2031 Glen: Wow. Ridic-- well I mean, even-- even 2032 2033 Amy: So Ive got-- Ive got CSIS, CSEC, NSA, Department of Homeland 2034 Security, RCMP and OPP. 2035 2036 Glen: Just on this side of the ocean. 2037 2038 Amy: And-- and-- and France. And there-- yeah and theres France too, yeah. 2039 And France 2040 2041 Glen: Ridiculous. 2042 2043 Amy: actual criminal-- criminal charges have been laid in France against 2044 their spy agency for illegally surveilling journalists and taking their 2045 emails. But the Babar and Snowglobe campaigns were specifically meant 2046 and directed at and about Canadians. And absolutely nobody having our 2047 back on that. But the NSA did 2048 2049 Glen: And theres 2050 2051 Amy: see it as something important enough to post on their website as one of 2052 the leaks that threatens their spy operation. 2053 2054 Glen: And theres absolutely no way that GCHQ could set this up without full 2055 knowledge and approval from CSEC 2056 2057 Amy: Right. 2058 2059 Glen: Theres just no way. 2060 2061 Amy: You know like, where did 2062 2063 Glen: No way. 2064 2065 Amy: where did my name come from up in-- who-- who suggested my name 2066 in the first place? 2067 2068 Glen: Yup. Exactly. I mean, its the buddy network in the dark shadows. I 2069 mean I think the first time-- I think the first time that we communicated 2070 on Twitter was back when you were having the problems with your-- with 2071 what they were doing with your son. 2072 2073 Amy: Yup. 2074 2075 Glen: I think that was the first time, and I-- I tried to you know, I tried to give 2076 you what I could, what I thought maybe try this, try that, I mean, you 2077 know like, thats a while ago now. And its only gotten worse. And 2078 unfortunately it doesnt sound like its going to let up any time soon. 2079 2080 Amy: No, when I didnt back down from what they were doing about my son 2081 and I fought back with everything I had and it made me sick and I couldnt 2082 sleep for about a year, it was that bad, um, now theyre coming at me for 2083 my house. And from Agriculture Canada coming to seize my house? I 2084 dont have a farm. Go ahead and tell me that thats not the water-- I know 2085 its the water and theyre fining me for that, I know all of that but for 2086 anybody who might question, uh I think that Agriculture Canada being 2087 the one to move to seize my house speaks volumes. 2088 2089 Glen: Well, they have used Agriculture Canada for eminent domain type 2090 exercises before. I remember uh, the farmer where National Defence 2091 wanted his land and he refused to give it up, and it was-- it was 2092 Agriculture Canada 2093 2094 Amy: But this-- but this not about someone wanting my land, this is about 2095 forcing me onto municipal water and punishing me for being on a well 2096 because I am using that same water that Ive been writing about. 2097 2098 Glen: Yes. Yeah, I-- I understand the reality of it, Im just trying to get my head 2099 around the-- the pretext that they use 2100 2101 Amy: Yup. 2102 2103 Glen: to involve all these different agencies. Just to make it, you know, as 2104 many directions as possible, as many budgets fighting you as possible. 2105 Like, they want to be sure never to run out of ammunition. They can 2106 always pick up the phone and phone one of their teams who are in on this. 2107 2108 Amy: It sure feels that way. 2109 2110 Glen: Wow. 2111 2112 Amy: And with the people coming to my house, you know Ive even had uh, a 2113 land surveyor who was actually teetering his gear off of the lip of my door 2114 threshold, so no matter-- he didnt have credentials handy or anything 2115 which is a red flag, but if anybody who knows anything about land 2116 surveying, and I dont know that much (laughs) but what I do know is 2117 that your gear has to be stable to take a measurement, and if its teetering 2118 it wont be any good. But 2119 2120 Glen: Yup. 2121 2122 Amy: thats exactly what he was doing on my door threshold when I opened 2123 the door, and he didnt knock to let me know or anything like that. Then a 2124 few days later a woman came by and she wanted to clean my house for 2125 $10 because she needed quick money and uh, when I wouldnt let her in, 2126 she didnt want to try any of my neighbours because she only wanted to 2127 work for me. Um, and then she drove off in a hurry when I turned her 2128 down. Um, and-- and then I got a call from SITEL, which is a subsidiary 2129 of Onex, they wanted in my house to fiddle with my phone jack for 2130 illegitimate reasons. 2131 2132 Glen: Well you cant say theyre not persistent. Um 2133 2134 Amy: Ill give them that. 2135 2136 Glen: Well, you know, this might be related, Ill just tell ya, I-- I imagine you 2137 cant see the chat room, can you? 2138 2139 Amy: No, Im not looking at it right now, sorry. 2140 2141 Glen: Okay well we did peek out at about twenty-two, twenty-three users. Um, 2142 now we are no longer live on the net, were just uh live either on uh, 2143 Livestream/OccupyToronto or if you are called in, we have ten users left 2144 in the chat room, two, four, six of them are guests. They have not signed 2145 in with an account. Yeah. Thats kind of what Im saying. We have six 2146 who are still here who are guests, and theres nothing really being entered 2147 in the chat room, but theyre hanging around to see if anything is I think 2148 so, hi guys! 2149 2150 Amy: Interesting. Yup. Hel-- hello, whoever you may be and-- and hopefully 2151 youre friend and not foe, but these days I wouldnt want to hazard a guess 2152 on anything. 2153 2154 Glen: Wow. Well, you know, um like I said, the Indiegogo got posted a few 2155 times in the chat, I will be contributing once I shut all this down, I will be 2156 tweeting it. I dont see any reason that just the act of people-- even from 2157 Twitter, theres no reason that we cant make enough noise and get 2158 enough done that we cant get that as close as possible to your goal, 2159 because 2160 2161 Amy: No if-- if everybody that I knew was kind enough to send me enough for a 2162 cup of coffee, that would probably cover it once it was all added up. I 2163 mean if everybody could just help out a little bit, you have no idea how 2164 much gratitude I would have. Im up against the impossible right now. I 2165 dont know what to do. I-- I-- there are no more options left, theyd 2166 really like to take my house. And if they do that, then I am not in a-- a-- 2167 a stable situation to be able to continue writing these stories, I will have to 2168 get my life back in order, recapitulate, you know figure out what to do 2169 after losing everything which is not a-- a great option there. Um, and if I 2170 can get this attack dealt with, then I am free and clear to go with the rest I 2171 know and I want nothing more in the world than to tell it. 2172 2173 Glen: Excellent. Anybody listening, thats all you need to hear. That is all you 2174 need to hear. Well, I have kept you for two hours and a little more than 2175 fifteen minutes. Again I will say if theres anything further you wanna 2176 say, youre free to do it but Ive pretty much run out of stuff. Weve 2177 covered what we said we were gonna cover, and Amy, I thank you very 2178 much for coming on this show. You are welcome to come back any time 2179 in the future if theres further develop-- developments. Doesnt matter. 2180 You let me know, I will give you platform. 2181 2182 Amy: Thank you, thank you so very much. It has been an absolute pleasure, and 2183 I hope that the audience builds for The View Up Here, its a great 2184 platform, I really appreciate the folks that you get on to talk and-- and to 2185 stimulate the conversation in our society and props to you too. 2186 2187 Glen: Well, thank you very much. And uh with that, I will put you on hold my 2188 esteemed guest, and then you will be free to hang up as you like, and there 2189 you go everybody. That is Amy MacPherson. A very brave woman, 2190 fighting against just about everything thats wrong with government and 2191 oligarchy. And corpor--- corpo-rape. Its kind of what I wanted to say. 2192 You can see what happens to one person whos determined to tell the 2193 truth. How quickly everybody disappears, how quickly nobody will help, 2194 how quickly circumstances are changed, what platforms are taken away to 2195 speak those truths. This runs so deep in this country. Corporate media? 2196 Dogs. They have the same masters as the government. You know a lot of 2197 people like to say that media is the slave of the government. Theyre both 2198 slaves to the same masters. This is what people have to understand. And 2199 again, the attack on the internet that is not stopping. It is our last chance at 2200 free and open communication. Just think if the internet is no longer free. 2201 If its no longer open. What will stop these powers that be? I hope 2202 everybody enjoyed the information that was spoken tonight. Theres lots 2203 more. Go to Amys site, www.freethepresscanada.org. I seriously 2204 encourage everyone to give whatever they can to her Indiegogo. It was in 2205 the chat, its a long URL I cant rattle it off, but I will be tweeting it as 2206 soon as I shut the studio down. I thought this was a great show. It 2207 demonstrates whats wrong with Canada. And most of it is possible to be 2208 laid at the feet of Emperor Harper and the Conservative Party, but not all. 2209 We talked about the changes to the Canada Pension Plan. There was no 2210 opposition. The unaccountability of our intelligence sector. I mean 2211 everybody whos listened to this show for a while, my big thing is parties. 2212 Parties gotta go. Parties are the root of all evil. They are the constant, 2213 they never go away, they make the rules, they abuse the rules, they use the 2214 rules against those against them. Parties are the root of all evil. But its 2215 the system we have. The only way well ever beat it is if everybody 2216 participates, or as close to everybody as we can get. Forty percent turnout 2217 isnt gonna change a goddamn thing. Thanks for listening to The View 2218 Up Here. Good night. 2219 2220 2221 2222 Amys website: Free The Press Canada 2223 www.freethepresscanada.org 2224 2225 Support Amy MacPhersons fight on Indiegogo 2226 https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/government-watch-listed-support-the-fightback--2 2227 2228