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1. Equipment and Vessels 2. Rotational Equipment 3.

Heaters and Exchangers


4. Valves 5. Piping Components/Stream Symbols 6. Instrumentation
PSV
M
P
T
FE
FT FT
M
FE
LG LT
FE
S M
FC LC PC
FC LC PC


Local
Remote
Overview system description
This is a part of steam reforming system(distribution and desulphurization).
Plant load is controlled by LPG volume flow rate on FV2 valve. Higher demand H2 production higher flow rate through FV2
To make flow more stable through FV2. PV1 controll pressure within PV1 and FV2
In steady-state conditions, the set point on PV1 controller is 3,200 Kpag and FV2 passes 9,000 m
3
/h LPG
As demand of H2 production increase FV2 will open to increase flow rate, cause pressure drop within PV1 and FV2.
Controller PC1 to mantain setpoint(3200) open valve PV1 so pump discharge pressure decrease.
If pump's discharge pressure reach 4,050 Kpag, the spare pump will start (condition is set in PLC)
Set point system change PC1. SP = 3,000 Kpag, so PV1 is closing --> flow rate decrase --. FV2 is opening to maintain 9,000 m
3
/h
Question DOES THE PUMP DISCHARGE PRESSURE INCREASE AS WE DECREASE THE PV1 SETPOINT TO 3,000 KPag
WITHOUT CHANGING OF FLOW RATE ?
My remarks In my point of view, the pump discharge pressure maintains itself constant because the flow rate will be the same
PC
V1
PV1
P1A
P1B
3,200 kPag
4,100 kPag
50% Open
Art's remarks
I presume that R1 is an LPG desulfurizer vessel and that the treated LPG goes downstream to a steam reformer.
This is a part of steam reforming system(distribution and desulphurization).
Plant load is controlled by LPG volume flow rate on FV2 valve. Higher demand H2 production higher flow rate through FV2 If you want (or need) to produce more Hydrogen in the steam reformer, you have to pump more LPG to it.
To make flow more stable through FV2. PV1 controll pressure within PV1 and FV2 A 2-stage pressure regulation system seems to be used. The tag FV2 seems misleading since it is shown controlling a back pressure, not a flow rate.
In steady-state conditions, the set point on PV1 controller is 3,200 Kpag and FV2 passes 9,000 m
3
/h LPG This also seems misleading. A PC (Pressure Controller) cannot control flow; it controls a pressure. This is contrary to FV2 that is shown controlling a back pressure and is tagged as a flow instrument.
As demand of H2 production increase FV2 will open to increase flow rate, cause pressure drop within PV1 and FV2. When FV2 opens more, the flow increases as well as the pressure drop across R1; however, the pressure produced by PV1 continues to be constant at 3,200 kPag.
Controller PC1 to mantain setpoint(3200) open valve PV1 so pump discharge pressure decrease. Yes, more flow is now flowing through PV1 because this valve is trying to maintain a constant outlet pressure. The pump's discharge pressure will decrease, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's discharge flow rate will drop below the flow rate going to the reformer.
If pump's discharge pressure reach 4,050 Kpag, the spare pump will start (condition is set in PLC) If this is designed to operate like this, it must be because the first pump's flow capacity is being depleted and the second pump is required to meet the increase of LPG going to the reformer.
PC1. SP = 3,000 Kpag, so PV1 is closing --> flow rate decrase --. FV2 is opening to maintain 9,000 m
3
/h
DOES THE PUMP DISCHARGE PRESSURE INCREASE AS WE DECREASE THE PV1 SETPOINT TO 3,000 KPag This conditional question is misleading and confusing because it presumes that the pumps discharge pressure can decrease while its delivery capacity is constant. A centrifugal pump cannot do this (as explained above); the pump's capacity varies with the developed head.
In my point of view, the pump discharge pressure maintains itself constant because the flow rate will be the same I don't understand this comment at all. Can you explain what it is that you mean?





R1
FV2
2,800 kPag
3,200 kPag
17% Open
I presume that R1 is an LPG desulfurizer vessel and that the treated LPG goes downstream to a steam reformer.
If you want (or need) to produce more Hydrogen in the steam reformer, you have to pump more LPG to it.
A 2-stage pressure regulation system seems to be used. The tag FV2 seems misleading since it is shown controlling a back pressure, not a flow rate.
This also seems misleading. A PC (Pressure Controller) cannot control flow; it controls a pressure. This is contrary to FV2 that is shown controlling a back pressure and is tagged as a flow instrument.
When FV2 opens more, the flow increases as well as the pressure drop across R1; however, the pressure produced by PV1 continues to be constant at 3,200 kPag.
Yes, more flow is now flowing through PV1 because this valve is trying to maintain a constant outlet pressure. The pump's discharge pressure will decrease, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's discharge flow rate will drop below the flow rate going to the reformer.
If this is designed to operate like this, it must be because the first pump's flow capacity is being depleted and the second pump is required to meet the increase of LPG going to the reformer.
This conditional question is misleading and confusing because it presumes that the pumps discharge pressure can decrease while its delivery capacity is constant. A centrifugal pump cannot do this (as explained above); the pump's capacity varies with the developed head.
I don't understand this comment at all. Can you explain what it is that you mean?
Richard's remarks
That's right
Correct. Load controll loop is in cascade mode so we set H2 demand where calculation are prepared and send as FC2.Remote set point. Higher H2 demand higher FV2 flow rate--->FV2 open---> pressure within PC1 and FV2 decrease --->PC1 would like to maintain preset pressure open PC1 so flow increase.
A 2-stage pressure regulation system seems to be used. The tag FV2 seems misleading since it is shown controlling a back pressure, not a flow rate. PC1 controll pressure within PC1 and FV2. FC2 controll volume flow rate reached from remote set point
This also seems misleading. A PC (Pressure Controller) cannot control flow; it controls a pressure. This is contrary to FV2 that is shown controlling a back pressure and is tagged as a flow instrument.
When FV2 opens more, the flow increases as well as the pressure drop across R1; however, the pressure produced by PV1 continues to be constant at 3,200 kPag. That's right
Yes, more flow is now flowing through PV1 because this valve is trying to maintain a constant outlet pressure. The pump's discharge pressure will decrease, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's discharge flow rate will drop below the flow rate going to the reformer.
If this is designed to operate like this, it must be because the first pump's flow capacity is being depleted and the second pump is required to meet the increase of LPG going to the reformer.
This conditional question is misleading and confusing because it presumes that the pumps discharge pressure can decrease while its delivery capacity is constant. A centrifugal pump cannot do this (as explained above); the pump's capacity varies with the developed head.
Correct. Load controll loop is in cascade mode so we set H2 demand where calculation are prepared and send as FC2.Remote set point. Higher H2 demand higher FV2 flow rate--->FV2 open---> pressure within PC1 and FV2 decrease --->PC1 would like to maintain preset pressure open PC1 so flow increase.
PC1 controll pressure within PC1 and FV2. FC2 controll volume flow rate reached from remote set point
As mentioned above
Yes, more flow is now flowing through PV1 because this valve is trying to maintain a constant outlet pressure. The pump's discharge pressure will decrease, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's discharge flow rate will drop below the flow rate going to the reformer.
This conditional question is misleading and confusing because it presumes that the pumps discharge pressure can decrease while its delivery capacity is constant. A centrifugal pump cannot do this (as explained above); the pump's capacity varies with the developed head.
Correct. Load controll loop is in cascade mode so we set H2 demand where calculation are prepared and send as FC2.Remote set point. Higher H2 demand higher FV2 flow rate--->FV2 open---> pressure within PC1 and FV2 decrease --->PC1 would like to maintain preset pressure open PC1 so flow increase.
In almost 90% plant load pump discharge pressure is close to 4050Kpag and spare pump starts
automaticly. So query content this topic. IS POSSIBLE INCREASE PUMP DISCHARGE PRESSURE TO
PREVENT SWITCH PUMP BY DECREASE OF PC1 SETPOINT TO FOR e.g 3000Kpag. MY PRESUME IS:
AS WE DECREASE PC1.SETPOINT PV1 START TO CLOSE---> FLOW RATE DECREASE(DECREASE
PRESSURE DROP ACROSS FV2) SO FV2 OPEN TO MAINTAIN RSP
Correct. Load controll loop is in cascade mode so we set H2 demand where calculation are prepared and send as FC2.Remote set point. Higher H2 demand higher FV2 flow rate--->FV2 open---> pressure within PC1 and FV2 decrease --->PC1 would like to maintain preset pressure open PC1 so flow increase.
In almost 90% plant load pump discharge pressure is close to 4050Kpag and spare pump starts
automaticly. So query content this topic. IS POSSIBLE INCREASE PUMP DISCHARGE PRESSURE TO
PREVENT SWITCH PUMP BY DECREASE OF PC1 SETPOINT TO FOR e.g 3000Kpag. MY PRESUME IS:
AS WE DECREASE PC1.SETPOINT PV1 START TO CLOSE---> FLOW RATE DECREASE(DECREASE
PRESSURE DROP ACROSS FV2) SO FV2 OPEN TO MAINTAIN RSP