=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=APPLE II MUSIC & SOUND FORUM CONFERENCE LOG July 24, 1991 10 PM ET Topic: What's New in SoundSmith?

Forum Leader: Joyce Madden (AFL JoyceM), Forum Assistant: Gene Koh (AFA Gene) Forum Consultants: Greg Dib (ELECTMUSIC), Ed Rosenblatt (AFC Eddie), Lindsay Hough (LindsayGS) Copyright (c) 1991 America Online All Rights Reserved =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=AFL JoyceM Okay...we can get started...and I have a few comments first... I would like to welcome Jim Maricondo of DYA....better known to us as DYA Jim. If you haven't checked out our libraries recently, we have some very fine (excellent) files that DYA has uploaded to our library on instrument files for SoundSmith. And we hope in the near future to have DYA as a link with AMS. Jim, would you like to make some comments about DYA and their involvement in the music field...then we can get to the questions and comments. Thanks.... Jim: DYA Jim1 Yo Everyone! :) Currently, we have only one music product actually released, and that is the DYA Instrument Disk Volume 1 which is now in the library. We are working on a couple other music projects for the future. We're not sure on details just yet, but there probably will be another instrument disk (now that I've gotten some sound cards for my synthesizer .. finally! :) and I will be finishing Hot Licks, our soundsmith player utility, sometime soon. Sounds great, Jim!! That is basically it for now, but we might change that or do more stuff in the future :)

AFC Eddie DYA Jim1

AFL JoyceM Jim, want to explain a little more on what the SS player utility will do? Mr Toaster Yes, please Jim. DYA Jim1 The main extra features we are planning for it (i.e. NEW features we haven't seen implemented anywhere else .. yet) are several jukebox modes -shuffle, like a CD player, and modes where you can specifiy a combination of files and folders to play in random or in sequence - and some really neat "VU" effects.

Mr Toaster CoooooOOOOOOOOOoooooool!!! AFL JoyceM VU effects? DYA Jim1 We're experimenting with several new kinds of new VU graphical displays. (yah, you know, like how SoundSmith does it in graphic play mode). But we will be implementing several other variations, some of which we've come up with

ourselves. Mr Toaster (How can you have different kinds of VU meters??!? I'm curious!!) AFun Ian DYA Jim1 Like maybe analog ones? (Wait and see! :) It'll be a good surprise. :) All digital, currently, except for the LED track/block/position display.

AFL JoyceM Have you all ever thought of making a SS editor to make inputing songs easier? Mr Toaster Oooo, can't wait!! AFL Marty I wondered the same thing Toaster... until I saw for myself :)

Mr Toaster Good point. AFA Gene DYA Jim1 Oooo analog ones! VERY cool idea, Ian! :) We'll have to consider analog now though :) It hadn't come up yet

Mr Toaster Like the little needle ones? DYA Jim1 AFun Ian Let's see.. so far a SS editor isn't in our lineup..Because of other commitments. Joyce, SS/Zap is coming along... Poor Jim doesn't need to do an editor! :)

AFL JoyceM Jim, will this be PD, shareware or ? AFA Gene DYA Jim1 Especially if you could get the needle-lines to be "jaggy-less":) Most likely shareware, but nothing is definite yet :)

AFL JoyceM Great, Ian....was hoping you would speak up ) DYA Jim1 Good Ian :)

AFL JoyceM Jim, Ian do you all feel that the GS music software is going to get better and more user friendly? DYA Jim1 DYA Jim1 Hmm.. that's kinda difficult.. Unfortunately, synthLab/MidiSYNTH is on hold indefinitely, and there are tons of rumors that SoundSmith will never be completed..

Mr Toaster It seems like it's on the edge of becoming awesome... except for AppleCo. :(

DYA Jim1 AFL Marty AFun Ian DYA Jim1 AFun Ian AFL Marty DYA Jim1 AFC Eddie

However, I think instrument editing and song editing will get better. I've heard those same rumors. wrong. Hope they're

Well, I'm working on the easier to use side AND the better side. You'll see. (You should see all the bugs in the MIDIsynth toolset!) (there are TONS) I don't like MIDIsynth. I think SoundSmith'll kill it! Esp. with my editor! :) Bugs? In Apple software? You're kidding! :)

I'd like MIDIsynth IF it was a final bugless version. Soundsmith won't kill it unless it has MIDI implemented.

AFL JoyceM Agree, Eddie Mr Toaster True. AFC Eddie AFun Ian AFC Eddie THEN it will kill it. Eddie, THAT's what I mean! :) Oh!

AFL JoyceM Now that we have some excellent music programmers on AOL, why don't you all get together and write the perfect music software :) Mr Toaster Anyone know Huibert's number? What's long distance to France cost, anyway? :) AFC Eddie AFL Marty Do you know something we don't Ian? I suspect that there is a way to input MIDI with SS...Huibert can't be entering all those songs via the "spreadsheet". I bet he has a private utility to do that. <-- hates spreadsheets. entered one songsmith song and then stopped :) Well, even if Huibert doesn't do MIDI, I am. :) With

DYA Jim1 AFun Ian AFC Eddie

If you check our new files library tonite, you'll find that SLab can sound just as good as soundsmith. MIDI. When, Ian? But you can't fix the bugs in SLab :(

AFL Marty DYA Jim1

Mr Toaster (Eddie, I thought that was sLab! :) DYA Jim1 You could disassemble Midisynth and go bug hunting, but then you couldn't distribute your new version (yes, I know someone who did this :)

AFL JoyceM Eddie, want to elaborate on your songs more? AFC Eddie AFA Gene True, Jim! Actually.... the really BEST soundsmith songs will probably always be mostly spreadsheet even after MIDI "is" implemented (if it ever happens)... Cuz SS will always quantize the MIDI input; i.e. it will not be like the way SL does it. (Guess I scared Ian away :) I just UL'd two SLab songs using exclusively SoundSmith instruments.

AFL Marty AFC Eddie

Mr Toaster AppleCo's lawyer brigade comes in.... yeah. AFA Gene AFC Eddie DYA Jim1 AFC Eddie AFA Gene <just wanted to make that comment :) You're right, Gene. (darn beatle record company) The Beatles are right! Aren't they still selling the Apple MIDI Interface? Sam Ash still carries 'em. They broke up already! >

Mr Toaster What Beatles? DYA Jim1 AFC Eddie

I can't figure it out either, Gene. Anyway, if you really want to come as close as you can to MIDI implementation with the sound of Soundsmith, you can do it with SynthCreate and AudioZap. The only thing that Apple stopped in the way of music, was synthlab. They still are updating their MIDI manager tools for the GS and Mac, they still sell the MIDI interface, but they're not doing slab/msynth anymore.

DYA Jim1

AFL JoyceM Jim, how difficult would it be to write a utility for SS to allow MIDI input? Mr Toaster Who seriously believes that Apple Records is going to sue AppleInc? Huh? DYA Jim1 AFC Eddie It's not a light undertaking.. I do.

Mr Toaster C'mon, they'd never win the case...it'd cost 'em too much money and it wouldn't be worth it in the end. DYA Jim1 It entails a lot of doing..I wonder how Ian is gonna implement it..

AFL JoyceM A MIDI input utility would probably take SL out of the music market. BTW, Mark Cecys still gets on AOL....leave him notes about upgrading the Tool35. DYA Jim1 AFA Gene I heard at KFest that Mark Cecys quit the A2 division. IMO the hardest part would be to decide how to split all the MIDI keypresses into SS tracks... like someone can hit 8 keys at once really easily.

AFL JoyceM I had heard that too about Mark...but he has been working on the Mac side soon after SL was released. DYA Jim1 AFA Gene DYA Jim1 Yeah, I believe Mark switched to Mac :( I'm not surprised, yet it's funny cuz mark was originally from Ensoniq. Yeah, I thought the same thing.. he dumped the Ensoniq. What people do to go work on the Mac side :(. The original main author of HCGS transferred over to the Mac side and then got laid off. Who knows, maybe we'll see an EPS 16+ in the next Mac. :)

AFA Gene

AFL JoyceM What is so sad about this...is that Apple doesn't care or take pride in what they release when it is buggy! AFC Eddie DYA Jim1 That would be unbelievable, Gene! Jim Mensch transferred over to the Mac side right in the middle of writing the Animation Toolkit. there's anyone left So wonder

AFA Gene AFC Eddie AFA Gene AFC Eddie AFA Gene

Ed, there already exists such a card... the name slips me at the moment, but that's basically what it is. For the Mac? Yep. So who knows, Apple might just make it built-in. ? Hmmmm, how about software support for it? (Apple doesn't put out the card, btw. The people in MMS seem to love it.)

Mr Toaster Hee hee hee... some friends of mine and I built a digitizer for an IBM. We got everything soldered together, all the parts in the right places...Tested it out... It's a

hunk o' junk. AFL JoyceM Eddie, what to discuss how you did the SS instruments into SL? AFL JoyceM The IBM or your board, Toaster? Mr Toaster I think the Radio Shack guy gave us the wrong chips. AFC Eddie Sure... :) Naah, the board. (I know, excuses, excuses...)

Mr Toaster Both! AFC Eddie

We took some instruments from a couple of SS songs we really liked....Then loaded 'em into Audiozap for tweaking and size control, which is really essential for SynthCreate. Then, used Synthcreate to make a couple of new wave files. We tried out a bunch of MIDI sequences converted with Midimate...and Voila! I'd like to know what Jim means when he says the instruments are "tuned" to the FUN instruments. They're not tuned to the FUN instruments, they're tuned to each other and to the keyboards they were sampled from. My mistake. What does that mean though?

AFL Marty

DYA Jim1

AFL Marty DYA Jim1

So, a G#4 played by SoundSmith should sound the same (excluding the degradation of quality) as a G#4 in the same instrument on the synthesizer it was digitized off of.

Mr Toaster Hmmm, good idea. AFL Marty AFA Gene Okay... that makes it clear. Thanks.

Yep, Jim, I had to do the same thing when I digitized my own custom SS insts. (compensating for tuning i mean) Yeah, that was a pain :) How hard was it to accomplish (the tuning)? You'll really have to ask Matt.. BUT, he did a LOT of work in experimenting using a lot of trial and error I believe in finding the proper settings to digitize and playback at. It wasn't easy. The tuning problem is what pushed back the release of the disk about 4-6 months.

DYA Jim1 AFL Marty DYA Jim1

Mr Toaster Sounds like a real pain to me. AFA Gene I did it by ear, so I guess it's just a pain in the butt. To me it was like tuning a piano.

AFL Marty DYA Jim1

I figured it wasn't easy. Matt has a great ear for this kinda stuff though :) He's done a bunch of soundSmith songs off of songs on tapes of his, with no sheet music and such :) Jim, I'd like to get together with you for some hints, as I'd like to create some insts with the sounds from my Proteus. Ahh, a Proteus. (I just got a "Proteus/XR Impressions" soundcard for my D70 :) I know that disk represents a lot of work. Hopefully folks will appreciate that (and maybe send money :) Perhaps you, I, and Matt could meet together sometime and talk about it. I hope so Marty :) Soon you may hear SLab songs with the DYA insts! You know, when you release something like an instrument disk there's always the danger that folks will think you did it in an afternoon. good point. Now that it's in the transcript they'll know better. :) Maybe we should add something like "Four months in the making" or however long it took (I forget :) I really do appreciate all the work it took. (My favorite sound, by the way, is Milk Bubbles :) That's the perfect name for that sound. Yeah, reminds me of when ultima 5 came out... "six man-years in the making" :) Has anyone created any tunes with the new instrument disk? The DYA Sampler song in the library demonstrates some of the sounds from a very beta (not tuned very well) version of the disk. But that's about all I know of so far. Maybe a contest would generate interest (just thinking out loud) Good idea! I'll work on some details and EMail them to you.

AFC Eddie

DYA Jim1 AFL Marty

DYA Jim1 AFC Eddie AFL Marty

DYA Jim1 AFL Marty DYA Jim1 AFL Marty

AFA Gene AFL Marty DYA Jim1

AFL Marty AFC Eddie AFL Marty

AFC SteveB (I have a music question for after the chat :)

AFL Marty AFC Eddie

No Steve... I will NOT sing "Feelings". Shoot, Steve!

AFC SteveB Ok! Are there any freeware/shareware Music Studio players? Or any util. that will let you listen to MS songs? AFC Eddie AFC Eddie I think there is one, Steve. Not sure if it's in our library or not, but I can check... So, you're all gonna check out my new Soundsmith SLab tunes, right? Coitenly

AFL Marty

Mr Toaster I just saw the Amiga MOD converter in your library. One o' my roomies has an Amiga w/ lots o' mods. I'll get some when he comes back to Houston in the fall AFC Eddie Steve, I know I have one somewhere. for it for you! I'll look

AFC SteveB Thanks Eddie! :) AFL JoyceM Great news for me...just got accepted to sell my paintings in a top gallery here in Denver :) AFL Marty AFC Eddie Congratulations! Fantastic, Joyce!!!!!!!!

AFL JoyceM And they will appear in a 1992 Calendar :)...am so excited :) AFC SteveB ()()()() Joyce! AFC Eddie WOW, now you can trade in that D-5 for a Korg T1!

AFL JoyceM Don't I wish...got to learn the D-5 first :) DYA Jim1 AFA Gene DYA Jim1 DYA Jim1 LOL :) T1's rule :)

Congrats Joyce! :) too bad they're so damn expensive :) Congrats

AFL JoyceM Thanks guys.... AFL Marty How expensive?

Mr Toaster WOW Joyce!!! What great news!!!! DYA Jim1 AFC Eddie the lowest model - T3 - I've seen for about $2700 for the keyboard List $5669 Marty.

AFL Marty DYA Jim1

::faint:: (ahh, thanks Eddie :)

AFL JoyceM Good grief....picking self off the floor!! DYA Jim1 AFL Marty it sounds great though :) It better!

AFL JoyceM You can buy a car for that...almost! AFC Eddie But, that's just list.

Mr Toaster Everything but the power door locks! LOL! AFA Gene Marty keeps having major medical problems at AMS chats. :)

AFL JoyceM Fainting seems to be one of those medical problems. AFC Eddie DYA Jim1 AFL Marty AFC Eddie AFL Marty AFC Eddie DYA Jim1 AFC Eddie AFL Marty AFC Eddie It's still rather humid here in CT where Marty and I live. So, fainting can happen! <-- lives in ct Speaking of which... Really, Jim? We have to get together sometime soon Eddie. yes! Yep :) With Jim, too! Where,Jim?

Jim's in Trumbull. Just there today!

AFL JoyceM I must be the only AOL member who lives out west! or so it seems. AFA Gene AFL Marty Jim's from the northeast? I always pictured Jim as being a California dude :) But you... I could open my window and yell out to you, Ed. :)

Mr Toaster Is Houston West? AFC Eddie DYA Jim1 Joyce, you add balance. LOL Gene :)

AFL JoyceM Jim...want to thank you and DYA for coming tonight...most enlightening and we look forward to Hot Licks... AFC Eddie And thanks for the great instrument disk!!!

AFL JoyceM Oh, and that too...great! DYA Jim1 AFL Marty Thanks for the invitation Joyce :) Thanks everyone! :) Hot Licks is awesome!

AFL JoyceM Thank you! AFL JoyceM ---------------log off------------