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PEB design
www.sefindia.org Forum Index -> SEFI General Discussion
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Author
sahildhingra

Message
Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 12:35 pm

Post subject: PEB design

SEFI Member

Could anyone tell me why peb is designed in 2d? Why not in 3d?
Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 18

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sahildhingra

Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 12:38 pm

Post subject:

SEFI Member

Joined: 10 May 2012


Posts: 18

Can anyone please send me the spreadsheet for purlin design, connection plate,anchor bolt and
base plate?

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VPandya
General Sponsor

Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 5:15 pm


2006/2010.

Post subject: USE MBMA Design Manual based on code IBC

Dear Mr. Sahildhingra

1) Use revised Metal Building Manufacturers Association (MBMA) Design Manual


based on IBC 2006/2010. You can also use software MBS for design of PEB
Structures.
These two are widely used in USA for all PEB Steel Buildings.

Joined: 09 Nov 2009


Posts: 466
Location: Ahmedabad

2) 2D Vs 3D Analysis and Design of PEB Steel Frames.


Say there is a 108m Long and 20m wide and 12m high PEB, Ware House . Let us say
PEB frames are span at 6m. Now you have 17 middle PE frames + 2 PE End frames . Total
0f 19 PEB Frames at 6m span.
All these 19 frames are repeatative structure of size 20mX12m. So you make one 2D
Model of 20mX12m and do Analysis and Design. You design one or two 2D frame and you
design all 19 frame or the whole structure.
There is no 3D effects in such structures. If you use STAAD/PRO Axis system where
XZ is Plan and XY Elevation in Long Direction 108 m and YZ Elevation in width direction
20m, then Structure is repeatative in YZ direction. So a 2D Analysis and Design of Frame
in YZ direction, designs the whole structure.
Regards.
Vasudeo Pandya P.E. : S.E.
Structural Engineer

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20-01-2015 12:56

www.sefindia.org :: View topic - PEB design

suresh_sharma

Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 2:18 am

http://www.sefindia.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=55301

Post subject:

...

Mr. pandya,
Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Posts: 754

You have given a good reply but please advise as to how to account for 3D effect of wind pressure
in 2D structure. In any structure wind pressure acts on all the 4 walls at a time either as suction
or pressure(Cpe and Cpi). Please elaborate.
Secondly if PEB is used as frame structure for building, then EQ forces are requred to work on 3D
model. 2D modelling may be good for small truss type structure with inclined roof. When no
software was available, analysis used to be performed as 2D only.
Please also advise for my personal sake as to which is the widely used PEB software in India.
I am the beginner in steel structure.
Please highlight.

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VPandya
General Sponsor

Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 5:35 pm


Subramania

Post subject: Fig 14.9 " Design Of Steel Structures by N .

Dear Mr. Sharma,


To answer your question, How can we only do 2D Analysis and Design of full PEB Rectangular
Building of 20m Wide X 108m Long x 12m High, the size I picked up, for Wind Loads and
Earthquake Loads?

Joined: 09 Nov 2009


Posts: 466
Location: Ahmedabad

ANSWER: Go to Fig 14.9 Typical Portal Frame Construction of " Design Of Steel Structures by
Dr. N . Subramanian. Now we have to do Analysis and Design of this Structure. There are two
ways to do it.
OPTION 1) A full 3D Model of all Frames, that is 3 middle Rigid Frames, 2 End Rigid Frames
and 2 Braced Frames in Long Direction. Also with all purlins and Girts for siding.
OPTION 2) 3 Simple Plane Frame 2D analysis and Design.
a) One 2D Frame of Rigid Frame out of 3 Frames.
b) One 2D Frame of End Wall Rigid Frame out of two End Wall Frames.
c) One 2D Frame of Long Wall with Bracing out of two Long Walls.
Option 2) will give you same answers in Member Forces , Deflections and Member Sizes. There is
no problem in applying WIND LOADS and EQ. LOADS in optiion 2).
Lateral Loads, Wind or Earthquake will go Bracings in two directions through Roof Diaphragm
(Horizontal Bracings). Check the Lateral Load Path. What you are doing in Option 2) is
recognizing the Symmetry and Regular Shape of your Building.
Option 1) in an Over Kill of Structuiral Analysis and Design. I have seen a Structural
Engineer in USA using Option 1) , and Size of his STAAD/PRO Model with 4000 members or so
was a waste of time. He could have done entire building with 3, 2D frames with total; of 40 or 50
members and not 4000 members.
Remember we engineers need to recognize the Regular Shape and Symmetry of our Structures.
Some one can ask us why you need say a 4000 member STAAD/PRO model for this Regular
Shape, Symmetrical Building? You could have done this with total of 40 or 50 members model
with few 2D Frames.
Some 3D Structures which have Irregularites are shown in Dr. N. Subramanian book
in Fig. 3.21, 3.22 , 3.23 and 3.24. These Structures have significant 3D effects and
you need a 3D model.

Regards.
Vasudeo Pandya P.E. ; S.E.
Structural Engineer
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Dr. N. Subramanian
General Sponsor

Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 3:23 pm


Subram

Post subject: Re: Fig 14.9 " Design Of Steel Structures by N .

Dear All,
Someone sent me a private email and raised some questions about PEB. I am giving them below

2 of 5

20-01-2015 12:56

www.sefindia.org :: View topic - PEB design

http://www.sefindia.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=55301

for the benefit of those who are new to PEB.

Joined: 21 Feb 2008


Posts: 4846
Location: Gaithersburg, MD,
U.S.A.

1. Why PEB structures are to be considered, if so how to do the design, any reference
books.
Pre-Engineered (PEB)buildings are ready made buildings in the sense, you see the suppliers
catalog and depending on your requirements, order them so that they will come and erect it. By
this way, it is quick and also since the components are made in the factory they are efficient. A
number of companies exist in USA and also in India, who will supply you the catalog. For example,
Butler Manufacturing company: http://www.butlermfg.com/gallery/. See also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-engineered_building
The best book on this is by Newman, A., Metal Building Systems: Design and Specifications,
McGraw Hill, 1997, 389pp.
2. I am planning to compare routine truss building with PEB building for the project
work
Design wise both are same, it is like the difference of routine concrete buildings and prefabricated
buildings.
3. Can we design PEB structures manually.
Sure! It is like any other truss or portal frame design
Best wishes
NS
VPandya wrote:
Dear Mr. Sharma,
To answer your question, How can we only do 2D Analysis and Design of full PEB Rectangular
Building of 20m Wide X 108m Long x 12m High, the size I picked up, for Wind Loads and
Earthquake Loads?
ANSWER: Go to Fig 14.9 Typical Portal Frame Construction of " Design Of Steel Structures
by Dr. N . Subramanian. Now we have to do Analysis and Design of this Structure. There are
two ways to do it.
OPTION 1) A full 3D Model of all Frames, that is 3 middle Rigid Frames, 2 End Rigid Frames
and 2 Braced Frames in Long Direction. Also with all purlins and Girts for siding.
OPTION 2) 3 Simple Plane Frame 2D analysis and Design.
a) One 2D Frame of Rigid Frame out of 3 Frames.
b) One 2D Frame of End Wall Rigid Frame out of two End Wall Frames.
c) One 2D Frame of Long Wall with Bracing out of two Long Walls.
Option 2) will give you same answers in Member Forces , Deflections and Member Sizes. There
is no problem in applying WIND LOADS and EQ. LOADS in optiion 2).
Lateral Loads, Wind or Earthquake will go Bracings in two directions through Roof Diaphragm
(Horizontal Bracings). Check the Lateral Load Path. What you are doing in Option 2) is
recognizing the Symmetry and Regular Shape of your Building.
Option 1) in an Over Kill of Structuiral Analysis and Design. I have seen a Structural
Engineer in USA using Option 1) , and Size of his STAAD/PRO Model with 4000 members or so
was a waste of time. He could have done entire building with 3, 2D frames with total; of 40
or 50 members and not 4000 members.
Remember we engineers need to recognize the Regular Shape and Symmetry of our
Structures. Some one can ask us why you need say a 4000 member STAAD/PRO model for
this Regular Shape, Symmetrical Building? You could have done this with total of 40 or 50
members model with few 2D Frames.
Some 3D Structures which have Irregularites are shown in Dr. N. Subramanian book
in Fig. 3.21, 3.22 , 3.23 and 3.24. These Structures have significant 3D effects and
you need a 3D model.

Regards.
Vasudeo Pandya P.E. ; S.E.
Structural Engineer
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sandeep_chauhan

Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 3:40 pm

Post subject:

General Sponsor

Dear Sefians,
Some leading PEB manufacturers in the world with there web addresses are there in the link
below.
http://www.mbsweb.com/htmls/clients%202.htm
Hope it will help.

3 of 5

20-01-2015 12:56

www.sefindia.org :: View topic - PEB design

http://www.sefindia.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=55301

Thanks
Sandeep Chauhan
Sr-Engineer (PEB Design)
Joined: 27 Mar 2012
Posts: 110

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venkatesh

Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 4:40 am

Post subject:

General Sponsor

There is a book from insdag (INSTITUTE FOR STEEL DEVELOPMENT & GROWTH) which had full
worked out example of PEB Truss. The code for the book INS/080 and cost of book is Rs 900/Thanks and regards
Venkateshwar Rao

Joined: 29 Dec 2008


Posts: 199

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thirumalaichettiar

Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 10:01 am

Post subject:

Silver Sponsor

If you become a life member of INSDAG you get 2 free book every year and discount price if u
need HB that is published recently.
T.RangaRajan.

Joined: 26 Jan 2003


Posts: 3394

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ashisheck

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:46 pm

Post subject:

SEFI Member

Dear sir
i have a work of foundation design of semi peb structure
where reaction is
Joined: 05 Jan 2010
Posts: 10
Location: IIT-R

Load & Load comb.

Fx kN Fy kN FZ KN moment at bottom of column (col.ht.=5m)

DL+LL

36.8

15.52

184

DL+wlx(sc)

-108.5

-41

-542.5

DL+wlx(Pr)

-141.5

-67

-707.5

DL-wlx(Sc)

-101.5

-39

-507.5

DL-wlx(Pr)

-138.5

-45

-692.5

DL+wlz(Sc)

-87.5

-37

-437.5

DL+wlz(Pr)

-162.5

-67

-812.5

DL-wlz(Sc)

35.5

15

177.5

DL-wlz(Pr)

35.5

15

177.5

this is at +5m. from ground. and after peb structure is rested on 5m length of RCC column
so column and foundation has a vary high moment
just in dl+wlz(pr) is 812.5 so i will design foundation in such heavy moment case.........
Thanks in advance

4 of 5

20-01-2015 12:56

www.sefindia.org :: View topic - PEB design

5 of 5

http://www.sefindia.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=55301

sandeep_chauhan wrote:
Dear Sefians,
Some leading PEB manufacturers in the world with there web addresses are there in the link
below.
http://www.mbsweb.com/htmls/clients%202.htm
Hope it will help.
Thanks
Sandeep Chauhan
Sr-Engineer (PEB Design)
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