Our Future, The End of the World, UFO’s, Aliens, Free Energy, 2012, The NWO, NASA, Mars

, the Moon, Our Economy, World Economics, The United States, The Illumnati, safe places and more.  

Project Camelot Interviews Vol. 2
With Bill Ryan & Kerry Cassidy

Th e

Many who are challenging our current way of life have concerns about coming forward publicly and telling what they know. Project Camelot's purpose is to provide a vehicle for those researchers and 'whistleblowers' to get their stories of truth out to the public. Interviews With: Ann Eller, David Wilcock, Robert O. Dean, Marcia Schafer, Bill Holden, Jim Sparks, Michael St. Clair, John Lear, George Green, Mariam Delicado, Dr. Brian O’Leary, Rebecca Jernigan, Arthur Newman a.k.a. “Henry Deacon”, “Recardo Silva”, “Jake Simpson”, Peter Levenda , Dr. Bill Deagle, “Elizabeth Nelson”, Jim Humble, Clif High, Benjamin Fulford, “James-The Integral”, JessicaThe Crystal Child & David Icke.
WARNING: Unless you have an open mind and are ready for some significant reality checks, do not open this book or read these interviews. They will tell you the truth, or as close to it as we can get at this time. And you may not be able to handle the truth. Remember to read between the lines where information conflicts. As Richard Hoagland says, “The lie is different at every level.”……..

It’s A Dangerous Path ……Remember ….You Were Warned!



The Truth Will Out
- William Shakespeare

Not For Sale www.projectcamelot.org
Anyone is completely free to download, copy, circulate, or distribute any Project Camelot interviews, with the provision that it remains unedited and unaltered, there is no commercial use, and that Project Camelot is referenced. All rights are reserved. Many thanks. Some supporting articles& pictures have been added because they were referenced.

Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy
Founded: May 2006

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The Project Camelot Interviews Vol. 2
Project Camelot Interview Descriptions Project Camelot - Karry Cassidy & Bill Ryan Project Goals Overview & Mission Statement In Tribute & Memory Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy - Paranexus Radio Interview Transcript September 18 2008
We don't usually post details of our own interviews, but this was a good one. The audio quality is NOT good, but the content is. It contains some information that has never been published on the Camelot site and may be the best audio summary of our work to date. 1) A detailed summary of the 'Big Picture', including the Roswell crash, time travel issues, future human visitation, and the 2012 problem. 2) A detailed analysis of the October problem (i.e. what may be happening in the next few weeks). 3) Project Avalon and its mission.

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Ann Eller – Phone Interview December 2006 (released in September 2008)
In 1985-86, the last year of his life, Ann Eller was the personal assistant to the very well known ufologist J. Allen Hynek. Hynek, an astronomer and a physicist, acted as scientific adviser to three consecutive UFO studies undertaken by the US Air Force: Project Sign (1947-49), Project Grudge (1949-52), and the infamous Project Blue Book (1952-69). Starting out as a skeptic, Hynek came to understand that the UFOs and their occupants were very real indeed. As an experiencer, Ann reveals a fresh approach to what it was like working for Hynek - as well as what Hynek really thought and may have known about UFOs. She relates several anecdotes including a slightly different twist on Hynek's involvement as technical advisor to Steven Spielberg on Close Encounters of the Third Kind. This 28 minute interview, which we've only just released in September 2008 (having extracted some of the audio from a corrupted video) is an interesting and important new resource to all serious researchers and historians of the subject


Bill Holden & Jim Sparks – April 2008
When we were in Las Vegas to interview John Lear, we called both Bill Holden and Jim Sparks to see if they'd like to meet with us again. We also suggested that they might like to take the opportunity to meet one another for the first time, in our presence. We were privileged to capture on camera, with their permission, the most interesting conversation which ensued. We hope you enjoy it as much as we did.


John Lear Tells All – April 2008
When we met again with him recently, with considerably more time at our disposal than we had two years ago, John piled his studio table high with books, diagrams and research papers and sat down to tell us "everything he knew". With special emphasis on the Bob Lazar saga - as only John can tell it - we cover the inconsistencies in the 911 theories and why as a world renowned pilot he is uniquely qualified to judge just what kind of planes, if any, hit the World Trade Center (answer, none: John explains why they were holograms); why the moon's gravity may be as much as 64% that of the earth's, and could retain a very thin atmosphere; how Ben Rich, the former director of the Lockheed Skunk Works, was a Mossad agent; the location of the "new area 51", called Sandia, deep within the Nevada desert; what really happened at 'Above Top Secret' - an internet forum where he was attacked and which he has subsequently left... and much more.


Arthur Newman a.k.a. “Henry Deacon” – Futuretalk III w/ Jim, Kerry, & Michael St. Clair 07/15/08



We met with and interviewed this man in early September, but he declined to appear on video or to have his name made public... for entirely understandable reasons. (Henry Deacon is a pseudonym for Arthur Newman, prompted by his similarity to the likeable and creative polymath on the Eureka TV show.) In this extraordinary, wide-ranging on-record testimony, he describes his work and experiences, and reveals some astounding information about the coming planned war with China; one way in which drugs are smuggled by the military from Southeast Asia; stargates and instantaneous communication over vast distance; the inhabited planets of Alpha Centauri; chemtrails; rips in spacetime caused by atomic testing, and the damage and danger they have caused; the use of viruses to reduce the world's population; the shooting down of an alien craft by a unit in which he served; and much more – including, possibly very importantly, a confirmation of Dan Burisch's testimony. We believe that the far-reaching information disclosed by this man is highly significant. We salute his courage in coming forward to ensure these truths are known, and encourage and support all others to follow his example.

George Green – Phone Interview of September 2, 2008
A 35 minute telephone interview in which George discusses the economy, the Russian military, the probability of war with Iran, and the need for The Ground Crew to pull together and get organized for difficult times ahead. Recognizing that things are moving fast and changing almost daily, George has asked us to phone him in a few days' time after he's had a chance to talk further with some of his own insider contacts in Washington and elsewhere to discover more about possible and probable covert plans.


US War-Mongering In Georgia A Negotiation Tactic As US Bankruptcy Looms By Benjamin Fulford (original article from RENSE.com) Benjamin Fulford – Phone Interview from Tokyo September 6, 2008
A 35 minute telephone interview with Benjamin Fulford. The purpose of the call was to allow him to expand on the details reported by him in his 28 August article published on Jeff Rense's site. (See article following this transcript) His article concerned the importance of 30 September as the end of the US Fiscal Year, and the possible situations being played out by the superpowers behind the scenes.

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David Wilcock – Phone Interview September 9, 2008
This is a blockbuster of a two hour phone conversation with David Wilcock, focusing on immediate current events but spanning time travel, the Freemasons, the Anunnaki, the Nazis, WW II, advanced technology, the Roswell crash, the Rockefellers, the Rothschilds, the Illuminati, the war in Georgia, the coming US election, Benjamin Fulford's testimony, and what may or may not happen in the coming few weeks and months.


Miriam Delicado – “Alien Blue Star” August 2009
Miriam Delicado was contacted at an early age by benevolent, tall blond extraterrestrials, apparently singled out specifically for a very special role. She was advised by them to keep a low profile for many years, and finally last year, 2007, she was told by them that it was time for her to write her book: Alien Blue Star. With that, Miriam became a minor sensation as thousands of people sensed that her book seemed to have been written for each of them personally. And now Miriam is a woman on a mission: driven, articulate, passionate, and powerful, she tells a riveting story of her very real and physical contact with a highly advanced, Guardian race, and the information she was asked to pass on. Miriam is aware that there are others of her kind. The message is aimed at all people and holds special significance for what George Green labeled the Ground Crew*: that we are nearly in what the Hopi - with whom Miriam has established a special affinity and allegiance - called the End Times; that our planet and our civilization are in great danger; and that (so far, at the time of writing) timelines do not appear to have changed... although it is always within our gift to create whatever future we collectively wish. We feel similarly driven, and it's our great privilege to assist her in her purpose by presenting this video. This may be one of the the most powerful and important interviews we have done. * George's term, not Miriam's. George and Miriam have never met. But it is clear to us that it's the same group of people that each addresses with the same urgency, and with almost the same message.


Robert O. Dean – Coming of Nibiru - September 2008



When we met with Bob Dean in May 2007, he stated that ours would be his last interview. After its publication, we received more mail - all of it generous and appreciative, without exception - than for any other interview we have ever done. We were therefore quite delighted when he agreed to talk with us on record once again. When we asked Bob what he wanted to discuss, he told us that he had important news, from his own inside sources, about Nibiru: the highly controversial Planet X. This video contains extremely important information for all students of Planet X to consider. True to form, Bob recounts other intriguing stories, including the NRO's classified discovery of "a goddamn boat" high on Mount Ararat, and confirmation of Henry Deacon's report that the Anunnaki are active on present-day Mars. His humanity, his dignity, his integrity and his humor all shine once again in this new video, and we are very confident that everyone who so enjoyed Bob's 2007 interview with us will find this just as entertaining, interesting, and valuable.

Dr. Bill Deagle – Prognosis for Planet Earth - September 2008
Taped in Vista, California, September 2008. Few in the UFO/ Consipracy/ Disclosure movement are as controversial as Dr Bill Deagle. Outspoken, brilliant and passionate, he has generated as many critics as he has made committed friends. We engage him in conversation (and hold our own!) and we believe we have succeeded in bringing out the human being, the warm and caring side to him, that aspect of someone who in his passion for the truth, and for the potential splendor and magnificence of the human race, has sometimes spoken in terms so strong that some have found him hard to hear. He is pro-life and pro-gun! He is a medical doctor and a Prophet of modern times: but many misunderstand that term. A Prophet is not a seer or a fortune teller. A Prophet - in the original meaning of the word, and the way Bill Deagle uses it - is someone who says: "This is what's likely to occur if we don't wake up or shape up." In that mission, Camelot shares and supports his stand. If you are going to be prepared for the “road ahead”, you must watch this interview. Be prepared to be shocked. We are not living in the world that we think we are!


Dr Bill Deagle 24 September 2008
This is an opportunistic recording of an most interesting phone call with Dr Bill Deagle which explored a number of important topics in a short 20 minute period. The phone call was unscheduled, and we were unable to record the beginning or the end of the call. The standalone section in the middle is presented here for the research data which it contains.


Clif High, Half Past Human - Telephone Interview Transcript 26 September 2008
This 75 minute interview with Clif High from Half Past Human looks into his predictive linguistic modeling technology, Clif's personal journey and relationship with his work, and HPH's forecasts themselves - the most well known of which is their analysis of a major unknown event in early (7th?) October which Clif and others believe might be very major indeed. For us at Project Camelot, this was a little too close to the warnings we had independently received from Hawkeye and other sources (see our home page, right hand column, for details), and we found ourselves paying close attention. This interview is not the best audio quality (mainly because of Clif's noise reducing phone, which makes him appear muffled) - but is good value nonetheless because of the fascinating content. We are working on a transcript to be published soonest.


Dr. Bill Deagle - Telephone Transcript 4 October 2008
Dr Bill Deagle called us early in the morning (in Australia, where we're here for the NEXUS Conference) to report a long night of visions and received information about imminent events which left him shaken to the core. We've published this call unedited and immediately. The audio quality is excellent. If the information Bill Deagle reports is accurate, then nothing could be more important.


Rebecca Jernigan -Telephone Transcripts 4 October 2008
Here aretwo short phone calls with radio host and psychic intiutive Rebecca Jernigan (Journeys with Rebecca), who first gave her own information that she was getting regarding upcoming events, and then her reaction to our phone call with Bill Deagle. Her intuitive dream information coincides almost exactly with Deagle's.


George Green - Telephone Interview Transcript, 21 October 2008
A 43 minute follow-up telephone conversation with George Green on the world's economy... and what may happen "when Obama is in office". (To give us all at least something to smile about, don't miss the brief outtake at the end.)




Jim Humble – Miracle Mineral Solution (MMS)
Aerospace engineer Jim Humble's third career started accidentally while on a gold prospecting trip in the jungle of Venezuela. There, using stabilized oxygen, he improvised an effective remedy for his colleagues who were stricken with malaria. As curious as he had always been in his life, he returned to his native US and wondered why the cure had worked so well


Stephen Bassett - Interview Transcript 13 November 2008
An energetic, tireless, optimistic, one-man champion of Disclosure since 1996, Steve Bassett from the Paradigm Research Group is adamant that no President has been better placed than Barack Obama to let the world know, officially and finally, about the reality of the ET presence. In this 25 minute, spirited conversation, Steve explains to us why he expects this to happen in Spring 2009, and gives interesting answers to one or two very straight questions.


Wingmakers - Why Would A ROBOT Need A Soul Interview With “James”: The Sovereign Integral
In my search for more information about the Anunnaki, I stumbled across the WingMakers website. After reading everything there was on that site I became convinced that the story would make a phenomenal movie, so I set out to contact Mark Hempel (the webmaster) and James (the creator of the materials). As Camelot has matured I have kept in touch with Mark and, via Mark, with James - and never lost sight of wanting to get the WingMakers made into a major motion picture. In the meantime, I have in the last year or so been asking Mark if we could do an interview for Project Camelot with James. Many months passed, and from time to time I would renew my request. Finally, out of the blue, I got the following email from Mark saying that James was willing to do a written interview. I am therefore absolutely delighted to be able to present the following interview with James. After receiving his answers to our complex questions I can only say that I, for one, have even more questions coming to mind. And it is my profound hope that this can become an ongoing dialog with what I consider to be one of the clearest minds operating in the world today.

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“Jake Simpson” - The Biggest Secret
For reasons which will become obvious, we were at first quite unsure whether to release this at all. After a great deal of thought, and further consultation with Jake, we decided to make this information available. Assuming it is true - and we believe that it is - it could hardly be more significant. It dovetails with everything else we know. And in many ways, we wish that it did not. Much of what follows is barely believable, so this may be its own best defense. Those who choose not to believe this information at all can relax - just a little, and maybe for a little while - with the knowledge that none of it can currently be proved. For the benefit of those whose jobs it is to monitor this information, we do not have any documentation of any kind. We are delighted, however, to consider Jake a close friend. We are absolutely certain that he is exactly who he says he is, and have talked with a number of people who have known him for many years.


“Recardo Silva” – Illuminati Activities & High Strangeness
During our January 2009 trip to Quito, Ecuador, we met an expatriate American who had had a number of very interesting experiences. After a preliminary conversation, we asked him if he would be willing to tell his story on record to Project Camelot. For reasons that will become obvious to the reader, he has asked to remain anonymous. Ricardo Silva is a pseudonym.


Absolutely Bizarre 'Creature' In Benjamin Fulford's Spine Benjamin Fulford Phone Interview January 26 2009
We just managed a short conversation with Benjamin Fulford, who, as many of you know, is recovering from very recent surgery reported originally by Rense on January 23rd. Considering the amphibian-like character of the tumor they removed, everyone has been curious as well as concerned over how he is doing.

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Benjamin Fulford's 'Creature' (?)


On Friday, January 23rd, Benjamin Fulford shocked the audience of the Jeff Rense Program by emailing the claim, accompanied by a photograph, that surgeons had removed a bizarre life form, very much resembling a salamander, from his spine. Those who could view the strange creature were shocked and horrified. Immediately, everyone who saw the "thing" wondered what it was--and if it were real.

Marcia Schafer - Ground Crew 101
We first interviewed Marcia Schafer in May 2007 (see below). When we met her husband Bob Dean for the second time in September 2008, we naturally sought an update from Marcia on where she saw everything going in the world... and what she could report from her professional consulting work with the large number of newly awakening executive clients she talks with every day. Marcia told us about the growing awareness of what she calls the swing vote: those who are becoming aware of the new paradigm and the ET connection, and what this all means when applied to the real world. We've called this interview Ground Crew 101 because it seemed to us that Marcia was strongly connecting with those who were just coming on board, discovering their missions, and integrating their new awareness into their everyday lives. Her no-nonsense, practical approach is refreshing. She is unabashedly positive in her outlook - in spite of the myriad of challenges we face together as a civilization in the next few years. Her frank appraisal of the inner changes in perspective which are necessary to face the future is inspiring, and is a good guidestone for those just breaking out of the Matrix and taking on a mission: new recruits in the quest to save our planet and our humanity. We encourage those just waking up to the changing times around them - bravely taking those first steps into the great unknown replete with other dimensions, visiting ETs and conspiracy theories fast becoming facts - to watch... and welcome aboard.


Jessica, Crystal Child Interview Transcript
We realized that it might be interesting (and valuable to many) to interview Jessica. Seeing her as a Crystal Child, we took the decision to include her among our cadre of witnesses as a representative of the younger and very awakened generation who are well-informed, deeply concerned about world events, and aware of the need for mankind to grow spiritually in order to transcend the myriad of problems we all face together. In this 50 minute interview Jessica speaks openly and emotionally about her personal journey, her family, and some of the bewildering experiences she has encountered. Her weaknesses are her dyslexia, and that she has not yet fully integrated her many experiences and perceptions; her strengths are her openness and her determination to bring a message to those who can hear it from her. She sees herself as a newly-arrived teacher and a messenger, and she probably is both of those things. Like all of us, she still has a long way to go in her journey, and has much to learn. But this is why we are all here, and the choice we make is to help one another as best we can. We are delighted to help present her message to the world. http://www.jessicamystic.ca/


Dr. Brian O'Leary - January 2009 Ecuador Conference Introduction Dr. Brian O'Leary - The Energy Solution Revolution - January 2009 Ecuador Conference
Dr Brian O'Leary suffered the ridicule of his schoolfriends when - several years before Sputnik - he announced his intention to go to the moon. Yet by the age of 27 he was a member of NASA's astronaut program, slated to be one of the first to visit Mars. Several years later, he resigned (for various reasons) and took up a career in academia where he rubbed shoulders with - among many others - Carl Sagan at Cornell and the pioneering psi investigator Robert Jahn at the physics department at Princeton. A near-death experience in a auto accident encouraged his exploration of the paranormal, and soon after he applied his considerable abilities to the investigation of Free ('overunity') Energy and psi phenomena. He authored several books and became a well-known Free Energy activist. His list of personal friends reads like a Who's Who of notable paradigm-challenging researchers and out-of-the-box thinking scientists. In our interview we asked him to summarize his exceptional life, and present his vision for the future. An optimistic, gentle man, Brian O'Leary is gifted to possess intellect, vision and graciousness in equal measure. We were delighted to spend time with him at his Vilcabamba home and are very much looking forward to continuing our friendship with him in 2009 and beyond.

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George Green - January 2009 Ecuador Conference
Brian O’Leary (BO'L): The next session of this conference and the theme of today is Crisis and Opportunity. And I can’t think of a more knowledgeable person, a unique person on the planet, to address those two questions, than George Green, whom I’ve known for about 20 years, I guess? We’ve been in ….




Camelot Live at Vilcabamba - January 2009 Ecuador Conference
As many of you know, Project Camelot made a recent trip to Ecuador to speak at a two-day conference hosted by Dr Brian O'Leary, ex-NASA astronaut and prominent Free Energy activist. This is one of the few times Project Camelot's Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy have appeared on stage together to present our research. Other conferences where we have appeared are the Nexus Conference in Australia, Fall of 2008--and we have been invited back this year-- The Crash Retrieval Conference 2008 and also at the Alamo Conference in 2008 and again this coming May. The title of the conference was CRISIS AND OPPORTUNITY, a fitting theme for the start of 2009 and Obama's new administration with all that it may bring. We talked in some detail about the Big Picture as we currently see it, including information from our important new witness Jake Simpson


Dr Bill Deagle (16 February 2009)
Dr Bill Deagle called us today to give us an update after our last contact with him: his famous phone call of 4 October 2008 (see below). He talked with us for 23 minutes about the great danger we all face from the engineered collapse of the world economy, and told us that he had learned from senior intelligence sources that two nuclear devices had recently been found in US cities and deactivated.


Robert O. Dean - Candid Informal Conversation 25 Feburary 2009
This very interesting conversation took place at the International UFO Congress at Laughlin, Nevada, on 25 February 2009. It was not a formal interview, had been opportune and unscheduled, and was recorded with a hand-held dictaphone in a very noisy environment. Ken Elliott and Miriam Delicado were also present, and we're delighted to share this with you. Enjoy :)


Peter Levenda Interview Transcript Sinister Forces
Peter Levenda came to our notice as the author of the powerful, compelling, and well-researched Sinister Forces. This trilogy explores the unsavory links between the Nazis, the occult, mind control and modern American politics, and asks deep and uncomfortable questions about what forces underlie and may control global events. Peter Levenda was researching the Nazi connection to American politics and secret societies as early as the Nixon administration, and he summarized his findings in a highly regarded book called Unholy Alliance. Currently, Jim Marrs, Richard Hoagland and Joseph Farrell are among those also involved in researching these same dark forces that surfaced in our everyday lives during the administration of George W. Bush, and which remain as an important question for the direction of this country with the newly elected Barack Obama. We feel fortunate to have stumbled upon Peter Levenda's impeccable research, which connects the dots between the agenda of the Illuminati, the Nazi influence within black projects and the US government, and the role of the occult and mind control in what is becoming the new world we are living in where the very foundation of freedom is being attacked and curtailed, threatening our humanity at every juncture.


George Green Telephone Interview 2/25/2009
We called George Green for an update on the state of the global economy. We recommend that George's views be considered along with Dr Bill Deagle's (see above) - and also with a very recent update from Lindsey Williams, the author of the controversial and potentially most important book Energy Non-Crisis. Lindsey specifically states that this recent interview (done not with us, but with The Byte Show) is not copyrighted, and we consider this update from Lindsey to be the most detailed and informative interview he has yet done. For anyone following George Green's and Bill Deagle's economic warnings, and who would appreciate more detailed information, we recommend Lindsey Williams' update as essential listening.


2009: A Tale of Two Timelines
In January 2008 we wrote an important article which we called 2008 : The Future is Now. It was a major summary of the various threats and possibilities that we felt lay before us on Planet Earth in these times, based on all the information we then had at our disposal. If you have not done so, we would urge you to read this in its entirety. Now it's March 2009, over 12 months later, and some things have changed. Others, meanwhile, have not. But there is enough new information to revisit our summary and make some important comments about where we are at in this game... a game of two timelines.


“Elizabeth Nelson” - What Really Happened To Flight 93
In February 2009 I [Bill Ryan] was approached by a remarkable and very brave young lady who was present in the room when the decision was made to shoot down United Airlines Flight 93 over Shanksville, Pennsylvania, on the morning of 9/11: 11th September, 2001. In this 45 minute audio interview, this very courageous woman tells her story in detail.




Whistleblower Testimony - An Electrical Engineer On 2012-2013 – April 6
We have been contacted by the wife of an electrical engineer who has been officially briefed about a serious major threat to infrastructure in a few years' time. We believe this information is credible and important but the contact may now have been lost. Therefore we are publishing what we have - with many questions unanswered.


David Icke – Conversation With
David Icke, one of the most visible, outspoken and controversial speakers and writers about the Illuminati and the New World Order control agenda, will need practically no introduction to most readers of this book. This is not an interview specifically about the information he's researched and presents so lucidly in his famous long presentations, and in his many books - all of which are packed with references, anecdotes and encyclopedic detail. It's more about the man behind his mission; what makes him tick, and what keeps him going; the source of his inner resolve; and, notably - anyone who mistakes David for a doomsayer, take note - his vision for Planet Earth: "The idea that this might not all have a successful outcome", he told us, "Never occurs to me." David's unflinching and remarkable commitment to his cause has made life far easier for many who have come after him - including ourselves. We owe him our own vote of thanks, and in this two hour FutureTalk we pay tribute to his life's work, and to the man who is still standing after all these years, still marching on that road less traveled, determined to present what he suspects is the truth, whatever it is.


A Tribute To - Dr. Eugene Mallove

(Murdered Free energy pioneer)




A NOTE ABOUT WHISTLEBLOWERS AND RESEARCHERS that you find on these pages: We, Kerry Cassidy and Bill Ryan, do not necessarily agree with or endorse all of the views presented here. What Camelot is about is the investigation into the mysteries that surround us. We are all, in a sense, investigators of our world. And while we, as individuals, may not agree with everything presented on our site, we fully support freedom of thought and speech as well as the Quest for truth. --31 December 2008



About Us
The best place to hide is in the open. Project Camelot is based on an idea generated when we first met and spent the weekend in Tintagel, England, overlooking the sea in the home of King Arthur. We named our project in tribute to the vision behind the utopian idea of the Round Table - and have structured all our efforts in this inspiring spirit. For the past two years we have been financing Project Camelot solely out of our own pockets and with the generous help of donations from visitors to our site. We thank you sincerely all for your help and support, without which we could not do what we do. To date, we have traveled widely meeting and interviewing truth-tellers in the effort to provide enlightening testimony about the true nature of our world. We will continue as long as our funds and contributions make this all possible.


Bill Ryan
Bill Ryan has a BSc in Mathematics with Physics and Psychology (Bristol University, UK, 1974), and followed this with a brief stint in teaching. For 27 years he was a management consultant specializing in personal and team development, leadership training and executive coaching. Major long-term clients included BAe (Systems) Ltd (formerly British Aerospace), Hewlett-Packard, and PricewaterhouseCoopers. In November 2005 he inaugurated the Project Serpo website, the report of an alleged disclosure, in stages, of a US-alien exchange program which took place over 40 years ago. While he had been interested in UFOs, Free Energy research and alternative medicine (he is trained as a kinesiologist) for over thirty years, his first contact with the UFO community at large occurred after establishing the Serpo website. He resigned his management consultancy post in May 2006 and now devotes all his time to Project Camelot.

Kerry Cassidy
Kerry Lynn Cassidy has a BA in English with graduate work in Sociology, an MBA certificate from the UCLA Anderson Graduate School of Management, and was competitively selected to attend a year of film school at the UCLA Extension Short Fiction Film Program as one of their first "hyphenates": a writer-director-producer. After 19 years in Hollywood working for major studios and independent production companies in production, development and new media, she has written a number of screenplays, acquired the movie rights to the Wingmakers story in 2003, and started work on her own UFO documentary in 2005.


Bill Ryan is currently based in Europe and Kerry Cassidy lives near Los Angeles. Contrary to most people's very natural assumptions, they are not a couple. United in their vision and purpose, and working as the closest friends, they travel and network as widely as possible in search of truth and reliable testimony to answer what may be the most important questions of our time.

Project Goals:
• • • To provide researchers, activists and ‘whistleblowers’ – in the area of exopolitics, free energy and investigation into conspiracies that threaten the current paradigm – with access to all forms of media in order to get the truth out. To establish ‘safety in numbers’ and unite these disparate factions under an umbrella of protection for activists and ‘whistleblowers’ who may have concerns for the safety of themselves and their loved ones. To provide a tribute to all activists in paradigm-challenging fields who have worked for the benefit of humanity... and who have suffered or been silenced for speaking the truth.

Overview And Mission Statement:
• • • Many courageous, free-thinking individuals have suffered for their commitment to help humanity. We honor them here, and offer protection and support for those who follow in their path. We are dedicated to getting the truth out.

In Tribute And Memory:
Please visit the tribute page on our website for information about each of these people's lives and achievements... and why they may have died. Dr. John Badwey Paul Bennewitz James Black Dr. Eugene Blass Ron Bonds Mae Brussell Danny Casolaro Dr. J. Clayton William Cooper Dr. Cooperson Arie DeGeus Ruth Drown Frank Edwards Don Elkins James V. Forrestal Dr. Max Gerson John Hadley Harry Hoxsey Morris K. Jessup Dr. Milbank Johnson Todd Kauppila Jim Keith Dr. David Kelly John F. Kennedy Dorothy Kilgallen Dr. William Koch George Lakhovsky Ann Livingston Brian Lynch Dr. John Mack Dr. Eugene Mallove Dr. James McDonald Stanley Meyer Dr. Wilhelm Reich Royal Rife Ron Rummel Phil Schneider Leonid Strachunsky Jose Trias Karla Turner Dean Warwick Gary Webb 25 Marconi scientists, 1982-88 10 NASA astronauts, 1964-67 9 Minot and Barksdale AFB airmen, 2007 Mr. X (died Dec. 2008) ... AND THE LIST GOES ON

These people died for their cause. Who will be next?



Project Camelot: Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy: Paranexus Radio Interview Transcript
(The New Big Picture) 18 September 2008
huge amount of money to even being the same room with some of these people. And here we are, we’re very closely connected with a lot of them and we’re privileged to be collecting information that starts to make sense of this great cobweb of secrecy which I was referring to just now. And we claim very little credit for anything that’s happened. It seems to be happening around us. We’re part of a larger team. There’s a real… Pardon my mixed metaphors. There’s a real snowball that’s rolling. Times are changing. The stories are coming out. We haven’t been stopped in our work, which is very significant. Given that The Powers That Be have got the capability to squash us like a bug if they wanted to, they have not done that. And we think that that is significant. Because we do think the information we’ve presented is valuable. And we’re in a position to present some of that, depending on what you and your listeners would like to focus on, in the next couple of hours. But we’re being permitted to do this. And we think that this may be helping The Powers That Be with the problem that they’ve got, which is: How do they come clean with this huge pile of secrets that they’re sitting on? For a whole variety of reasons, it’s just got very, very, very complicated. And we started off just telling a few stories about ufo witnesses; and Bill Hamilton; Gary McKinnon, the so-called Pentagon hacker; a guy who we had contacted privately who was in an extraordinary situation 20 years ago of being an archivist of classified information, six months working in a vault with photographs and documents and artifacts and films. And he came forward to tell us what he had experienced. So we thought: Wow, this is incredible. We’ve got a couple of witnesses here who are willing to say something on record. And since then we’ve gone into time travel; we’ve got into what’s happening with a possible, potential, catastrophe that we feel has been averted years ahead. Then we got into issues connected with: OK, what is gonna be happening in the next few years? It’s all very interesting, talking about Roswell and the kind of mess that Eisenhower, who was basically a good man, may have got himself into in the early 1950s. But there’s a lot of historical information which is really interesting and not all that valuable

We don't usually post details of our own interviews, but this was a good one. The audio quality is NOT good, but the content is. It contains some information that has never been published on the Camelot site and may be the best audio summary of our work to date. 1) 2) 3) A detailed summary of the 'Big Picture', including the Roswell crash, time travel issues, future human visitation, and the 2012 problem. A detailed analysis of the October problem (i.e. what may be happening in the next few weeks) Project Avalon and its mission.

Start of Interview Doug Kelley: Welcome to Paranexus Universe. It is Thursday, September 18, 2008. I’m your host Doug Kelley here with my co-host, Grant Rubendunst. Welcome, Grant. Grant: Hey, welcome everybody. We’re really excited to have Bill and Kerry with us from Project Camelot tonight. Yeah, and so, if you could, for the folks in the audience who might not be as familiar with your wonderful website and the great work you did, if you could just, maybe, perhaps start out by telling us how you guys got together and how this became such a passion for both of you. Kerry Cassidy: Basically, what happened was I was a frustrated writer. Bill Ryan: She just basically just picked up a consumer-grade camcorder and started talking to people, and I joined her just a little bit over two years ago. We realized we had the same vision. And to cut a very long story short, we’ve had a very magical experience since then. We’ve had the experience, and forgive the metaphor, we just walk towards apparently blank walls and doors open to welcome us into an incredible wonderland of opportunity, talking to people who just a few short years ago when I was reading UFO books in my spare time, I was thinking: You know what? I would give a


unless we’re still back in the so-called ufo dark ages when we’re trying to prove that there’s something going on. For us, this is self-evident, that there are so many things going on out there that aren’t reported on CNN. We’re taking this as our starting point, that we have visitors, that there are secrets, that the US military and the military of other countries are in this up their necks and beyond; that there are really complicated issues involving visits from future humans, time travel, time loops, stuff connected with the Montauk Project. It’s very, very complicated, very interesting, very important. And we’re living in critical times right now. And as Grant said, I think, These are interesting times. And one of the things that we find ourselves staring at almost in real time as we talk to you, is information coming at us about the kind of things that may be happening literally in the next few weeks. And all of these things are connected. And with that, I’ll step down from the podium from which I’ve been talking [laughs], and allow you to steer this along, because there’s so much to say. D: OK. Grant, you have a question? G: One of the things I wanted to ask you, Bill, was… You know, on your website you talk about, kind of, your thesis. And I thought that was really fascinating. And I wonder if you could kind of enlighten our audience, if you could give them your perspective, kind of what you think, or an overview on what you think is happening and what the consequences might be. Because I think our audience may not be as familiar with it as I am, and I find it absolutely fascinating. B: OK, I will do my best. And the reason why I say that is because these are complicated concepts, and it’s almost the kind of thing that’s easier to present with a diagram rather than on live radio. But here we go. This is what we are reasonably convinced has happened, and it’s a sort of a variation of, and an enlargement on, what could be called conventional UFO understanding. So here we go. D: Take a breath. B: [laughs] Very deep breath. We are given to understand by two of our witnesses who did not know each other, independenttesting me, one of whom is Dan Burisch who is well-known to the UFO community, who we know well and who we are totally satisfied that his credentials are good will and very high connections; and another guy whose pseudonym, which we gave him, is Henry Deacon, who has worked on the inside for a large number of years. We know this guy very, very well. And, just as an aside on that, a couple of weeks ago we started a forum called the Project Avalon forum, not Project Camelot, but Project Avalon. The two are closely connected, and we’ll talk about that a little bit, too. And Henry Deacon is very live on this forum. It’s an almost unique situation where we’ve got a blackops whistleblower who’s actually answering questions in real time on our forum. And we invite all our listeners to check into that. It’s projectavalon.net. Click on the forum. Henry Deacon is right there. Now, what these two witnesses say is that the Roswell visitors were future humans from a future Earth. They were not extraterrestrials, they are extra-temporals. And they differ slightly in the time period which they believe they came from. Dan Burisch, from what I recall, says that he understands that they came from 24,000 years in the future. Henry Deacon says he thought it was more like 6,000 years in the future. But those details are really unimportant, because this is such an important concept to get. And the thing is that this was not… This crash was a HUGE screw-up, if you’ll excuse my French here, because it was not to have happened. And one of the things that was retrieved from the crash was a small device which was a kind of… It was like a time portal, time guidance, time travel, instrument which is way beyond my capacity to describe in the English language. I wouldn’t even know how to… I wouldn’t even know what to call this thing. But the consequences of this was that the US military, in 1947, they got their hands on a device that enabled them to be able to look into the future and manipulate time in various ways, and to create a very… To make that complicated story short, what happened was that then created a massive amount of confusion, because it’s like giving a bunch of kids a whole bunch of dynamite and detonators. G: Just the mere thought of it, Bill, is kind of scary, you know, the military tinkering with something like that in the 1940s. B: Yeah. They were tinkering around… As we are given to understand by both Burisch and Deacon, they were tinkering around with this high-tech device in such a way that it started to create loops and paradoxes in time. And one of the issues that was prevalent there was that they discovered fairly early on, both from their own investigations using this device, and also from contact with future humans from a different era, even further into the future, is that in the future humans’ history, there was a major catastrophe in the year 2012 or around 2012. This is what the 2012 thing is all about. It’s about an awareness that we have, and a historical record from the future humans’ point of view, that from their historical perspective, there was a major catastrophe that was a huge civilization wipeout. It was a pole shift. And what happened then… once again, to make this long story very short… is that the US military did what they do best and they started to dig in. They took defensive action and they started to spend trillions of dollars on a whole network of underground bases. And interestingly enough, in the future humans’ history, this as exactly what was done. And after the catastrophe, half of the human race stayed underground, half of the human race left the planet, first to the Moon and Mars. They went off in different direction and evolved in slightly different ways.


Now, the reason for this pole shift, so we are given to understand, was that a certain kind of time-portal technology, which is known in the vernacular as Looking-glasses, manmade Looking-glasses and manmade Stargates, which both used the same kind of technology. Stargates you travel through. Looking-glasses you look through. And you can look into time and you can look into space. And according to the future humans’ history, these devices amplified -- accidentally -- the effects of the Earth moving through a particular region of energetic space in and around the time of 2012. And this is what you read about all over the net … we’ll have the Earth moving into an area where it’s parallel with the plane of the… G: Center of the Galaxy. B: …the galaxy. Something to do with that. This isn’t just complete hokum, although there’s a lot of hokum talked about it. There’s a region of energetic space that the solar system starts to move through, and is starting to move through, and in the future humans’ timeline, these manmade Looking-glass and Stargate devices amplified these energetic effects, which is something to do with micro-wormholes in space, and caused the entire Earth to wobble, just like knocking over a bowl of soup in a restaurant, which created this huge wipeout. And we’ve got all… Although it’s a paradox and we haven’t kind of got there yet, the human race has got this sort of futureperspective-ancestral-memory of this thing. Everyone’s looking around thinking: My god! You know, we’re in deep trouble, and what’s this 2012 thing about? And people are talking catastrophes and pole shifts. And it’s almost impossible to find the right tense to use in the English language. It’s like this did happen in the future and the future humans came back and said: Listen, we know why this happened, because it happened to us. If you decommission or dismantle these Looking-glasses and Stargates, then this won’t happen to you. And then this creates a new, different, timeline. And we have been credibly assured by Dan Burisch, who took part in a special project last year, 2007, to check out whether the decommissioning of the Looking-glasses and Stargates had actually been effective. And his summary was that, yes, the catastrophe has been avoided. This will not happen. But what they did see was a whole bunch of other stuff which has been coming at us for the last 6 to 9 months. And this has focused our attention. And in this intelligence probe - it’s a time portal intelligence probe into the future - the catastrophic future timeline which they called Timeline 2, that apparently is very improbable now. That is, they are assured that this will not happen. What they did see on Timeline 1, which is the non-catastrophic timeline… and it’s Variant 83 which they saw. They had to call it something, and there are a number of variants, and this has all got to do with quantum probabilities. What they saw was that before the US election in 2008 (and here we are now!), there would be a war which would be launched that then would be inherited by the next administration, the president of which would be Hillary Clinton! … which is interesting, because this doesn’t look to be the case. There would have to be a lot of strange events occur for this to the case. So it looks as if that timeline has been broken. But for a long time this was not certain. And the events on that Variant 83 of Timeline 1 are not only a war against Iran, but an economic collapse which is associated with that, and then an enormous mess which is pretty bad news and certainly something to be avoided if at all possible, that involves various nuclear exchanges… Pakistan, Russian, China, a whole bunch of nasty stuff. Not the civilization-stopper, but certainly something that involves quite a lot of hard times in the next 18 months to 2 years. And ever since that news was discovered, as it were, various factions have been trying to avert this, because we do have free will and the future is not cast in stone. And the very first thing that happened after this was discovered was that Mike McConnell -- who’s a good guy and he’s the Director of National Intelligence, the USDNI, as he’s called -- he instructed his intelligence organization to publish what is called the National Intelligence Estimate on the 3rd of December last year [2007] which stated that Iran was not a threat. Now, that was not in the timeline that was seen, so this was the first attempt to actually change things and to avert the war. And basically ever since then, there’s been in a push-me/pull-you between the factions who actually want this war to happen -because they’re driven by all kinds of crazy Illuminati prophecies about end times and Armageddon, and they actually want this thing to happen. As Dan Burisch has said in the past, that because for so many years the politicians of the world have known what seems to be lying ahead, based on this time portal information, they have just been actors following a script, just following what they kind of believe in a quasi-religious way is their destiny. And this is really alarming, because where this destiny goes is somewhere that doesn’t look like particularly good news for the human race. Now, at this point I’m gonna take another deep breath here. I’m gonna stop and I’m gonna allow Kerry to fill in all the gaps. [laugher] D: OK. G: We’re all ears. D: Kerry, still with us? K: Hi. Yeah. I am. Actually, I’m not really sure where you want to go at this point, so I’ll let you ask the questions and let’s, you know, let me try to answer.


D: Well, let’s do this. We’re getting close to the bottom of the hour so we’re gonna take a short break in just a minute and then we’ll come back from the break and we’ll pick it up where we left off and that’ll give you a chance to reset here a little bit. Before we go to our break, I just want to welcome everybody in the chatroom and everybody who is listening. We’re glad you could take your time and join us tonight. A very interesting discussion, a lot to come out of it yet. I think we’re scratching the iceberg here. There’s a lot of questions on this one. We’re very excited to have Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy with us from Project Camelot. We’re gonna pick up the discussion with them just as soon as we get back from the break. They’ll hang with us. We’ll be right back. [break] And welcome back everybody. Doug Kelley here with Grant Rubendunst, and we're talking with Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy from Project Camelot. Welcome back, Bill and Kerry. K: So this is Kerry. And, just to recap for a second what we were talking about before the break, we were talking about how Timeline 1, variant 83 has been possibly changed. At this moment the information we’re getting is that actually the timeline is changing so rapidly that something that was planned and in the works for a few months ago may not be actually occurring the way people think it will, and that goes for massive events. It goes for some of the weather wars that are going on behind the scenes, and some of the plans that are being made to launch attacks on Iran, and so on. Lately we have, in the last two months, just launched a new website that’s sort of the sister website to Project Camelot, called Project Avalon and you can go there. It’s projectavalon.net. We have a forum there which is actually exploding and taking off in an incredible manner. We had something like 13,000 visitors in the first week or so. And then we’re up to 2,000 users at the moment. That’s not counting the people that just visit every day, but actual registered users. And it’s all about building communities, finding safe places and networking for the coming day that includes the future, creating a new future, hopefully a new paradigm, from where we are now, up to and beyond 2012. And we just see 2012 as being just one day. We see we’re in the throes of a complete global change and hopefully an emergence of a different consciousness. And the old paradigm is quickly destroying itself. And we plan to replace it. And so we’re gonna do our bit here. Project Camelot was all about stating the problem. And Project Avalon is all about creating a solution. So we’re hoping to continue along those lines. One of the things with Project Avalon is also that we’re making available resources for building communities and for, you know, eco-friendly communities, anything you need to know to set yourself up, and maybe a small group of people, in a safe place. There will be Earth changes in the future. We’re having, you know, some pretty heavy-duty storms, as you’re seeing already, and there may be some escalations along those lies. There certainly are weathers wars, so even things that are naturally induced by the Earth itself and some of the planetary and galactic changes that we are going through are going to be aggravated by actual weather technology which is being, I guess you might say, misused by The Powers That Be, Russia, China, the US. So there’s that aspect of things that you also have to be aware of. D: Kerry, let me ask you a question. Are you saying that the weather issues that we’ve been having in perhaps recent years, or even this year, is the result of the weather manipulation by the government powers? K: Yes. I’m saying that in addition to the natural changes that are going on, and that means, you know, things going on with the sun although right now the sun has been incredibly quiet, there have been some “hits” on both sides. There’s a lot of thought that the Chinese earthquake was a targeted hit, and Ben Fulford has come forward to talk about that. We’ve got a recorded interview with him. He’s also talked about that, I believe, on Rense. It’s hard to prove this sort of thing unless you get a black-ops person coming forward. I have to say that, other than perhaps Tom Bearden, there are not a lot of people out there that are willing to come forward and talk about the weather wars side of things. That was one incident. The tsunami in Indonesia was apparently, possibly, caused by an undersea hit, electromagnetic hit. D: Well, what’s the point? I mean, are they testing? Or are they actually targeting these different areas? And if they are, for what purpose? K: Well, from what we understand… I mean, you have to sort of go back to Project Camelot and drill down through all the different witnesses, but what it comes down to is the Illuminati Agenda. What that is encompasses is, in the short term… If you want to look at what’s called the Report From Iron Mountain -- and we have had that substantiated by Henry Deacon. We’ve got a link to it on our site under Henry Deacon, but you can also just do a search on the web for Iron Mountain Report. Basically that lays out what WAS the Illuminati Agenda. And that started somewhere back in, gosh, I don’t know, the ’60s at least, and going forward. However, what happened since then is that… And that had to do with population reduction. That was the bottom line: that the Earth was going to become overpopulated and they, the people in control, wanted to get rid of what was said to be 2/3 of the population. Henry Deacon, who is one of our witnesses, has come forward and talked about how he was given that report and told to sit down and read it, digest it, and understand that We are the wolves and they are the sheep. And this is what’s going on.


What is further to that, and this kind of piggybacks on what Bill had been talking about with the timeline changing, is Dan Burisch saying that all bets are off, that the Looking-glasses have been shut down, The Powers That Be no longer theoretically are able to see their future (which was helping them make decisions, right? They were able to select the best decision for their own ego gratification and therefore move ahead.) … that all the bets are off, at this point, with regard to that. Although we have to say that this is the party-line that we’ve been given. I have to say that it’s possible THE POWERS THAT BE, being fairly devious, and certainly the Vatican is part of all of this, possibly have other means by which to see the future because it’s a technology that was taken from cylinder seals, Sumerian, and before that from the ETs. It also came, as Bill said, with the crash at either Roswell or Kingman, whichever one you want to believe. But all we’re saying here is that that timeline, the timeline in which a catastrophe was in the works, nuclear war definitely, and various other things, possibly has been averted. Although I have to say here that recently we’ve had communication with Dan Burisch in which he stated -- and he’s put this on his own eaglesdisobey.net forum -- he says that the Orions are up above the Earth sitting in ships with American, possibly people, officers, from other countries (the Secret Space Program), and they’re watching to make sure that indeed the catastrophe does not happen. So they’re sort of standing by on the off-chance that things take a really dark turn. Certainly our economy is taking a dark turn at the moment. D: Could you just clarify real quick… this catastrophe? Is it projected to be a certain time? Are we talking 2012? Is there anything about that in this? K: I mean… Well, it’s the standard end of the Mayan calendar. Bill kind of outlined the various events, one of which is a pole shift. We have mixed information on this. As you know… Because when we created Camelot, it wasn’t only about whistleblowers. It became about truth-tellers getting word to us from, you know, all kind of different places. And in fact we have a scientist who we cannot name who came forward, who has gone to work for -- I think I can say this safely enough -- Homeland Security. He was called in to work for them. And he came forward secretly to us and stated that there would be a pole shift. There would be what I guess Ed Dames has called a “kill-shot” from the sun, and I believe, a magnetic pole shift as well. B: What was interesting is that we got a one-liner email. And we get many, many one-liners from people, saying, you know: Great job on your site. We really like what you’re doing. Good luck to you guys. And we usually, you know, send a reply saying: Hey thanks a bunch. But he signed himself a name of somebody who I recognized. And I got back to him saying: Are you who I think you are? [laughs] who was a name that many of your listeners would recognize. And he said: Yes. I am that person. And he was responding to us privately. He hadn’t come knocking at our door as a whistleblower; he just said, Hey look, you know, I like your site. And we have had messages like that from a lot of insiders, who just like seeing what we’re doing because it does reflect many aspects of the truth in what they see. And we checked his e-mail address, whether he was the real guy, his IP address, and all that kind of verification. So we found ourselves thinking: Hey, we’re talking to a guy who’s a brilliant scientist. We’ll just ask him a question or two. And this was two years ago. And the time span is really important because things have changed since then. We said to him, basically: What do you know and what can you tell us about what’s coming up? And he said: We’re in for a very tough time, and I don’t want to be the bearer of bad news. He said there will be three events in the next few years, starting in 2009. He said the first one would be a [#1] coronal mass ejection [from the sun]. And he said: To see what I mean, look up the event of 1859, which we did. The event of 1859 was before the electronic era, of course, and this was when the Earth was basically bombarded by massive fireworks display from the sun which created auroral displays as far south as the Equator in both hemispheres. It was incredibly spectacular and everyone saw wonderful sunsets for a little while. But it didn’t cause any damage because this was before the time of chips and circuits. Now, if this happened now, a lot of stuff will get burned out. We would be OK. We’d see all the fireworks but we wouldn’t be able to talk on Skype, our cell-phones wouldn’t work, we wouldn’t have TV, we wouldn’t have radio. Our cars would stop working because the electronic management systems would burn out. Planes would fall out of the sky. The only things that … Well, actually that’s a bit apocalyptic! Planes might fall out of the sky if the coronal mass ejection was strong enough. This parallels what Kerry described just now as Ed Dames having talked about what his team of remote viewers had seen in reference to a ‘Killshot’. Now, this scientist who contacted us wasn’t talking about people getting fried by solar flares. What he was saying is that there is going to be something here that’s going to influence our electronics all over the world. Then he said that there would a [#2] magnetic pole reversal which we’re given to understand is already in progress. And it doesn’t affect our everyday lives very much, but it causes whales and dolphins to end up getting lost and beaching themselves in the wrong place. And it causes all kinds of interesting effects on our minds, the way that we think, because we are electromagnetic biophysical beings, at least at the physical level, and as the Earth’s magnetic field starts to go through its various fluctuations, we are all affected behaviorally by this, which is very, very, very


interesting. As that destabilizes, we destabilize as well emotionally at least to some degree, to the degree that, you know… We are spiritual beings operating this body through the interface of our brains, which is an electromagnetic environment, essentially. And then finally, he said, [#3] the pole shift. That’s like a kind of a slam-dunk, yeah? And now, he said this before we got the news from Dan Burisch in 2007, as a result of the decommissioning of the Stargates and Looking-glasses, that the pole shift had been averted. So this is not contradictory information. It just confirms, basically, that this was what was in the cards at that time in 2006. And what’s really interesting is, you know, how come a brilliant scientist, whose name is well-known in the public arena, is contracted to the Department of Homeland Security? I mean, that’s really interesting. And of course, as an Englishman, I couldn’t really understand this at first. But then a number of my American friends helped me to understand that the Department of Homeland Security… This is like a very innocuous name for basically an over-riding intelligence organization that’s senior to just about everything else, and is handling not just issues of immigration and border control, but major, major areas of anything that’s related to national security. And it’s just got an innocuous name that looks like it was invented by George Orwell. So, that’s my enlargement on that. G: The thing that’s so frightening about that is, if all of our electronic systems go down, it’s going to disrupt everything globally, the banking system, everything. Certainly what’s going on now is not good, but if we have something of that magnitude, that’s going to cause an incredible collapse of just about everything. K: Right. Well, actually Henry Deacon has come forward and has been talking to us about this electromagnetic “shot” that will happen at some point. And he actually says it will be induced by The Powers That Be, or could be. And he talks about safeguarding your electronics by wrapping them in aluminum foil and burying them in the dirt. [laughs] And on top of that, even cars navigate and are run by computers, so you have to understand how far-reaching this really is. And then, at the same time, we had Dan Sherman, even before that, come forward, and talked about being actually, you know, genetically engineered by the ETs and the US government to be an ET interpreter, trained as an interpreter by the military, to operate during that time, this unique time, when the electromagnetic grid would go down. It’s unclear how long it’ll be down for, but one assumes that if you’re gonna train a group of ET communicators… And one might want to delve into why you’d need ET communicators when you have electromagnetic grid shut-down. That means that THE POWERS THAT BE are going to be communicating with the ETs during that time. And they have no other way to do it except psychically, with what are in essence trained psychics. And that’s what Dan Sherman was. So he rebelled. He became a whistleblower. And you can find his website. I believe it’s called aboveblack.com. At any rate, when we get information, it often becomes substantiated from more than one place, and so this idea of an electromagnetic breakdown of the grid has been substantiated from a number of different angles, people who don’t know anything about each other. G: Have you guys got any idea as to how folks, THE POWERS THAT BE, the Illuminati or whatever, are planning on maintaining their own survival, for perpetuating their staying on top of the heap, so to speak? K: Our understanding, again, is the underground bases is what they’ve provided for themselves. And this fits in with what Dan Burisch talked about in terms of the future humans coming back and saying that a certain group of humanity goes underground. I mean, there are huge underground cities that have been built for the time when the sun would become overactive, for the shift on the planet…if we have such a thing as a pole shift. So all of these things have been provided for, again, by The Powers That Be, and they’re well aware of it. The trouble is, for them, in essence, is that the things that they were planning for don’t seem to be in the works any more, for a number of reasons, one of which is that the consciousness on the planet is changing, and that we, because we are co-creators of our own destiny, are able to affect the future of what is happening. And that as humanity wakes up -- and this is what our whole quest on Camelot was all about, was to wake up as many people as possible, to get onboard and know what was really going on, break through the matrix, if you will -- such that we can actually change the program. And so that seems to be happening. We’ve gotten several indications that it is. However, there are also very strong indicators that at the moment we are approaching a very important time --which is right now through the month of October -- in which The Powers That Be may want to do something drastic in order to coalesce their power and stay afloat, at least in the United States. That would be the Neocon faction. And that they apparently… If you listen to our recent audio interview with David Wilcock, he gives a wonderful summation of what went down in Georgia, and how the Israelis had planned to attack Iran from Georgia, and how that plan was actually worded, and how the Russians got hip to that. And you have to understand that within the US military and the whole Neocon faction you’ve also got MJ12, and you’ve got elements which are onboard with the Illuminati Agenda and are trying to make the depopulation through war, through disease, through Earth changes, whether they’re provoked or allowed to just happen. There’s one group like that. And then you also have what is called often by our people, the “White Hats” who will work behind the scenes to try to make sure that these things don’t happen the way The Powers That Be would like them to.


D: Kerry, so these White Hats are…? Generals? K: Apparently they’re generals in the military. They’re people like… Mike McConnell could be termed a white hat. Certainly Dan Burisch would be termed a white hat. [Mike McConnell] is the one who came forward with the National Intelligence Estimate that ruined George Bush’s plans to paint Iran as, you know, having nuclear weapons that were… G: He undermined it. Sure. Thank god! K: Exactly. Now, there are always, you know, there’s a punch/counter-punch, as you can imagine. If you watch the news, you can actually watch this happening in the various reports. As controlled as the media is, you can still watch their, sort of, rollout and read between the lines if you become skilled at it, and if in essence you have the kind of backdrop of what Camelot has investigated --and, you know, numerous other, certainly, researchers and investigators, like Jordan Maxwell, David Icke, both of whom we plan to be interviewing in the next week or so at the Bay Area UFO Conference. D: Very interesting stuff. Kind of leaves you pondering a lot of things. And I definitely need to go spend some time, more time… I’ve watched some of your videos, but not enough, I don’t think. If you’ll hang with us, we’re going to be back with Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy of Project Camelot. So hang tough, we’ll be back in just a few. [break] And welcome back everybody. We’re into our second hour tonight. This is Doug Kelley here with Grant Rubendunst. This is an interesting conversation, huh Grant? G: Absolutely. Welcome everybody. We’re happy to have you. And we’ll be taking your calls. We welcome your calls and any questions you might have in the chatroom. D: Sounds good. And we’re of course talking with Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy from Project Camelot. Welcome back to the program. What’s gonna be coming up in the near future? B: Oh boy! Right! What’s gonna be coming up in the near future? Let us start with an anecdote. It’s one of these little anecdotes that’s quite a good place to start. This is an email that we got two days ago and it was on the back of a whole bunch of emails that we got a little bit earlier on in the summer, from somebody, a regular person. And there are lot of regular people who are very alert and aware, who follow our work, watch our site, and who know people in high places or in the intelligence agencies, so they say. We were first contacted by this person in July, who said that he had a friend in the alphabet agencies who we had reason to believe was fairly senior. who said that if they were going to be deployed to the Middle East, then war would be a done deal. Unquote. That war was a certainty. D: All right. B: I’m just quoting that because those were the words he used. K: That is war with Iran, just to clarify that. D: Right. B: Yeah. And we got an email two days ago saying that this guy had been deployed to the Middle East. So… K: Actually, he’s being deployed this week. [The email] was a few days ago, so it was “next week” and now it’s this week. So we have a blog on the front of Project Camelot that we now keep, because one of the things we realized that we had to do was to take the backlog of information that we have as Camelot and help people to use that to interpret news events that are going on. And also to be able to report other whistleblowers and people that report information to us that’s not long enough for, say, an interview or even a whole page, but is sometimes very key information telling people what’s happening and what may be happening very soon. So that’s our blog on the first page of Project Camelot. So it’s a good place to check in and see what’s really new. But to continue, Bill, why don’t you tell how the information about October is actually starting to really stack up. B: Yeah. It’s starting to stack up. And the analogy that I use is that of data points on a graph. It’s like, if you are collecting information and you’re plotting it on a graph -- and I say this because I’m a trained scientist quite a long time back. But if you get data-clustering, then it means something. This is not random. You start to see a shape forming. You start to see trends forming. And we’ve seen this data-clustering pointing towards October for quite a while. And this e-mail that we got just a couple days ago is just the latest confirmation. It’s like, well OK, the guy’s gone to the Middle East. You know … Ohhh … you know. What does this mean? I won’t swear now, but I did when I read the e-mail. To go back … Now this is interesting because there are interesting points that come to this. We were contacted in May 2007 -- that’s pretty much 18 months ago now -- by somebody who was… We weren’t contacted directly, but we were contacted by an intermediary for somebody who was associated with one of the Montauk Projects, who was involved in the Montauk Project in 1984. And this another whole area which you can do two-hour show on just that alone. The Montauk Projects, we are assured, were real. They had to do with time travel, time manipulation, all the mess of stuff that I was talking about in the first hour. And this guy… In 1984, one of the things that they were doing, was they were messing around as I was describing, using technology that they barely understood, with fixing up, manipulating, and peering into, over the time horizon, into future timelines. And this guy said that for years he had been talking about what he recalled from that project, that in 2007, 2008, there would be two main markers of that time period, one of which would be


food riots, OK? And we got this, as I said, in May 2007. We didn’t publish this information because we didn’t believe him. We thought: Food riots? People are gonna think we’re crazy. And we sat on that information. The other component of what he said besides the food riots, was he made reference to what he called the King George Scenario. And this was in 1984 he heard it. And King George refers to George Bush. They knew about him as the future president in 1984, 16 years before he was elected. And they called it the King George Scenario because kings aren’t elected. Kings get to stay in power all the time, and they never step down after 8 years. The King George Scenario apparently was that some event would occur before George Bush, before his term of office ended, that would actually create the need, the false need, or the fake need or whatever, for him to stay in power. And we’re still waiting for this. OK. This may or may not happen because timelines do change. But in the metaphor told us by another one of our witnesses, Jim Sparks -- who is a multiple, almost all-the-time, fully-conscious abductee, who was told a whole bunch of stuff by his abductors, and shown some pretty alarming pictures of a potential Earth future -He was given to understand that time is like a huge river. You think about like the Nile or the Mississippi or the Amazon, just this giant river that’s flowing along and we’re flowing down it. And it flows in a direction. And you can change the flow of this river with enough energy, but it’s always gonna want to keep on flowing in the direction which has been. You can change it, but it’s not easy. If you just lob a few rocks into it, it’s not going to make any difference. It needs to be a big-time change. And you can even divert it, but it still wants to flow back in the direction in which it was flowing in the first place. It’s kind of got its own inertia. And so are watching to see whether this timeline has changed. In the meantime, our contact is expecting this to happen. Now, more stories here, because I was talking to Henry Deacon about this. Henry Deacon is our black-ops insider source that we were talking about in the first hour. He knew about timelines, he knew about the future human stuff, he knew about the Roswell catastrophe … catastrophe because of the time device that was recovered in the crash which then they started tinkering with to create all these time loops and paradoxes that have not yet been resolved. I said to him… I was talking to him about what Dan Burisch referred to as Timeline 1, Version 83 and saying: You know what? At least the timeline has changed, because it doesn’t look like Hillary is going to be president. She’s off the ticket. She’s not even the vice presidential candidate to Obama. This is not gonna happen. Henry said: You know what? I feel really uneasy about this because of something I read many years ago. And I said: What are you talking about? And he said: You know, I can’t remember, but I read this. I read that Hillary was off the ticket but something really weird would happen and she would end up back on the ticket again. And it was connected with the election being postponed for a couple of months. I just had these chills going down my spine. D: No kidding. B: Now, I’m just reporting a conversation that I had, and Henry could not remember the details, because, as happens with many people behind the curtain of black-ops, they’re exposed to documents, they’re exposed to plans. Some of these things do change. But the thing that is so hard to believe and so alarming to believe is that many of these global events are orchestrated and choreographed years or even decades before. Carol Rosen, who we don’t know and we haven’t talked to, but many of your listeners will know, who worked closely with Wernher von Braun, went on record with the Disclosure Project, is saying that she learned about the invasion of Iraq in 1991 (Operation Desert Storm) back in the 1970s. She sat in on meetings where this was being planned and being discussed. The whole thing is being choreographed right from the beginning. That’s just one little example. And so we’re left with this snippet of extraordinary information, Henry saying: You know what? Just watch out, because if something were to happen, Hillary’s back on the ticket. The reason why I made reference to what Jim Sparks said about the flow of time being like a giant river… you can divert it, but you better keep it in place with a lot of energy. Otherwise it’s going to try to head back to where it was flowing and where it wants to flow in the first place, like water flowing downhill. If Hillary is on the ticket, there’s good reason to believe that we’re all in a great deal of trouble, because what happens after that is a whole bunch of nuclear exchanges. Now we’ve got George Green, who we haven’t yet spoken about in this conversation. George Green, for those of your listeners who don’t know him… He was an ex-Air Force engineer. He was in banking. He was in construction. He was in politics. He has a lot of friends in high places. And he is also somebody who has been in contact with the Pleiadians and other extra-terrestrial sources, for quite a number of years. He has a very unique résumé, as it were. And he’s been talking about this stuff for quite a while. One of the things that inspired us to create Project Avalon was because George Green said that in his communications that he has received from the Pleiadians -- the Pleiadians being off planet, human-appearing, benevolent, extra-terrestrials; maybe they come from another place in time, we don’t know. But he gets a lot of information from them. He said that it’s almost too late. This is what he said. Almost too late. And he made references to a bunch of people he calls “the ground crew.” He wrote a little book which… He almost kind of took this book by


dictation, which is available on his website for free. It‘s called Messages for the Ground Crew. D: You have the URL for that? B: Yes, it’s called nomorehoaxes.com. K: It’s actually a set of three books. Another one’s called Embracing the Rainbow. Another one’s called Handbook for the New Paradigm. The first one he wrote with the aid of the Pleiadians is Handbook for the New Paradigm and that was the one that actually talked about people getting ready, moving into rural areas, establishing small communities -- basically what we’re attempting to do now with Project Avalon to provide a network where that sort of thing can happen. But I have to say this book was written several years ago. So he was way ahead of the curve. And now what his communicators are telling him is that we… the time is actually past for educating people, that we are getting very close to the time when these events would actually start to happen. And they do talk about a war behind the scenes between their faction, the Pleiadians and various other benevolent ETs, and the negative-oriented entities that are out there working with the US military among other groups, certainly the Vatican. So you see there is a scenario behind the scenario that you actually have to keep in mind. But at any rate, we are getting information and George is one of the people that has been talking about the whole economic downturn. He has predicted this very accurately, what is even as we speak, what is happening here this month. We were told September would be the month. And sure enough, it appears to be when the economy would begin to crash very seriously. We had been told by him a year ago to put all our money in gold or silver and get it out of the market. We followed his advice. Once upon a time that was really good advice. I have to say that unfortunately The Powers That Be seem to be hitting the gold and silver markets very seriously the last month, which was another indicator that something big was coming along, because they were driving down the price of gold, one might think so that they could, I guess, get into the market, and then be prepared for what’s happening right now in which gold and silver are now starting to go back up. We’ve got Michael St. Claire also talking about these sorts of things, by the way. So what is happening, what we’re looking at right now, is information we’re getting from a lot of different sources and it all is coming together around the month of October, basically saying that in the month of October there seems to be some event that seems to want to be taking place. It’s not gonna be a positive event. I wish I could say it was, but it will have something to do with either postponing the election or making it such that the Neocons will get their sort of agenda back on track after their debacle of Georgia. And we don’t know what the event is, so we can’t actually say anything about… too much about that. B: Do you want to say anything about Hawkeye, Kerry? Tell them about Hawkeye, our source. K: OK, well Hawkeye is sort of a whistleblower from within the Illuminati. He calls them “The Roths.” [laughs] And he says that… Well, I can’t… I have to be very careful as to how much detail I go into because we do want to protect him. We published a lot of information from him on our blog which is, again, on the front page of Project Camelot.org. And he was basically telling us all the same things that Henry Deacon was telling us, that we were getting from other sources, George Green, and a number of other deep black sources. And he’s a very interesting guy. He’s written us, I think, for the past year, and we’ve got a huge score of emails from him, basically telling us it’s getting closer. The time’s getting closer. Their agenda is being rolled out. His point of view is that the… Whatever the White Hats are trying to do, they’re actually not gonna be successful. I have to say that because of his position, because he feels so oppressed, if you will… He’s, you know, heavily monitored. He used to work for the Illuminati. Basically he’s had to buy into their scenario. He believes their power is pretty much a done deal. B: What he said is that there would be a major event that he said, basically… I mean, he used very dramatic language. He said it would be the coup d’etat for the human race and he said this would in the first 10 days of October. K: Right. And what’s weird about that is there’s also this halfpasthuman website that’s also doing data mining on the web, using language and computers to create… I guess they’ve been doing a whole layout like a graph of where people are at and certain events. And they did it for 911. They predicted accurately the recent resignation within a day of Mushariff. We are hoping to possibly interview them. I know they’ve been interviewed by Rense. But there’s a lot of information on their site about October. I have another little ingredient that just came to us recently, which is, the Arlington Institute has apparently been alerted somehow and they’re a think-tank, one would say, for certain factions of the American government, certainly, in which they are collecting now data, and asking for dreams and visions of people pertaining to the month of October. So we’re getting such a coalition of evidence and information from so many different sources about this particular timespan. I myself have had a dream, a prophetic dream, if you will. We’re going to be interviewing Miriam Delicado who has a website called alienbluestar.com. And she is a contactee from the Pleiadians as well, and she has been getting information about October. So we don’t know what the event is. We do know that it could be something to do with postponing the election. We have heard that it is some kind of massive event, on the order of a 911-type of thing, however we don’t know what. G: Let me ask either one of you about this catastrophe. Is it just some time in October? Is that what you’re getting or hearing? Or are you getting anything about that? Is that what I’m understanding here?


K: Well, we have to say that we’re not getting a specific date. D: Well, you’re hearing… K: Half Past Human is saying they have gotten… They’ve charted it down to actually a date which is October 7th. What we’re getting is that it’s sometime in the month of October, and that there’s a build-up that has already begun. B: Having said that, our source, Hawkeye, specifically said the first ten days of October, which is an alarming correlation in itself. G: Which is really interesting, guys, because if you look the developments that have been going on. It was in the news today about Iran has once again, you know, thumbed their nose at the European community about nuclear testing, about proceeding with developing their nuclear abilities. And then, of course, we have the Pakistanis being very upset with the Americans who are launching commando raids into Pakistan. It just seems like, you know, maybe the pieces are falling into place here, you know, especially in light of what’s been going on in Georgia as well. K: Well, you guys had asked us during the break if we could talk about why we’re being able to get information out there, and if we’ve been attacked in any way. D: And that’s a great question. Let’s hang on to that one for just a moment. We’re coming down to the bottom of the hour, the last half hour. Man, this time has gone fast. Jeepers! [break] In the remaining time that we have, what would you like to say? What message would you really like to get out there? And I do have a question after you go. B: First of all, I’m a Brit, as you can tell. And during the Second World War the Brits experienced something which they called The Spirit of the Blitz. And The Spirit of the Blitz was a community spirit that arose spontaneously in London when it was being bombed by the Germans. The authorities didn’t have to do as much as they might have had to do because the citizens did it themselves. The citizens took care of each other; they took care of each other’s medical needs; they took each other into their homes when their homes had been wrecked. They put out fires. They provided food and water for each other. The community spirit was incredibly strong. This is -- if you don’t mind my waving our Union Jack here -- this is one of the reasons, and with American help of course, the Nazis were defeated. Now, we’re more vulnerable now than we have ever been before because that community spirit -- in the days of the internet where people are partially connected by technology but also partially disconnected by it -- we’re living in an age where we don’t know our neighbors. We don’t know the people who live on the other side of that anonymous door on the other side of the corridor in our apartment block. We don’t really live in communities in the way that we used to. We’re much more isolated. We’re much more mobile. And even the family unit isn’t as strong as it used to be. And this is our weakness. But back to Project Avalon, what we’re trying to do there is, we’re trying to rekindle the spirit of community, because that would be the strength if times become tough. We’re much more likely to be able to have a smooth ride through whatever the next few years brings for us if we know who our neighbors are, if we are in touch with our families, if we forget our little squabbles and we learn how to work together with people who maybe we might have trivial disagreements with or whom we decide we don’t like. And these communities don’t have to be avant garde communities like Findhorn or Esalen or Damanhur or any of these other places. It could be a street, or it could be a district, or a city, or it could be a small bunch of people in an area who know that they can count on each other if things are difficult. And this is what George Green, who I was talking about half an hour ago, referred to when he talked about the Ground Crew, that there are some people out there who will not listen to any of these problems. They won’t be woken up. I mean them no disrespect, but they’re NOT awake and alert to what is happening, but other people are. And the people who are listening to this show, by default these will be those people who are at the front line, and who are listening. They’re thinking: What can I do? What can I do? Everyone’s situation is different. On Project Avalon which we formed so we could create solutions, we have a forum which is exploded into the most extraordinary activity, thousands of viewers in just a few days. And there are people there… There are whole threads on this forum which are devoted to groups getting together, people saying: Hey, listen, I’m in Idaho; who else in Idaho? Or: I’m in New Zealand; who else is in New Zealand? Or: I’m in the Bronx and I’m stuck here, is there anyone else in New York? I want to know who you are because I want to know who I can trust. And these people are getting together. They’re forming groups, they’re forming networks, they’re making plans and establishing meeting places. Now, this doesn’t have to be like negative catastrophic thinking, because these are good things to happen even if nothing bad goes down. And so, to some degree, it is about a renaissance. It is about a reconnection. It is about people connecting with each other and rebuilding the kind of society and the kind of networking that is the sign of a healthy society. We’re finding that our society is not as healthy as it used to be in the past. And if these threats of geopolitical events spur us on to talking to people we’ve forgotten how to talk to, then that’s actually no bad thing. And the other thing I want to say, must more briefly than I have just said, is that we create our own future. As the Buddhists say: We are dreamers that are dreaming each others’ dreams. All of this is a very solid-looking dream that we find ourselves in.


And the future is not written in stone despite all this high technology that we were talking about, to do with timelines and timeline variations. They exist probabilities and possibilities. And we can create any future that we want, any future that we choose, and we human beings have the ability to do this. Bill Birnes, who is the editor of UFO Magazine and a very wellrespected UFO researcher… at the end of his life he interviewed Admiral George Hoover before he died. D: Bill Birnes didn’t die. Major Hoover… B: Admiral Hoover died. And before he died, Admiral Hoover told Bill Birnes what all this secrecy was REALLY all about. And it was really fascinating, because it’s like, well, OK, so some guys crashed in 1947. They had a weird aircraft and they looked at bit funny… and why is this secret? Why? And Bill Birnes was told by Hoover that it’s not about the visitors. It’s not about their technology. It’s not even about the information that they brought with them about our future and other things. He said that the biggest secret is the fact that we human beings are more powerful than we have ever dreamed that we are. That is the biggest secret. We don’t know our own power. And The Powers That Be don’t want us to know our power, and we are being kept in the dark. What Bill Birnes Said: Admiral George Hoover, ONI ... said he KNEW that these entities were not so much interplanetary, but they were literally time travelers, and the big secret is that they were us from the future. And that we and they have the same powers, and that was the real fear of the government: that we have the ability to manipulate reality around us. We've always had that ability, we just didn't know how to use it... We are being educated that we are animated hunks of meat, that we are here by accident with no spiritual heritage, no purpose, no meaning to our lives. And that this is not true. And that if this secret got out, then it would be so easy to end this game that’s been in place for thousands of years with the Illuminati and the Luciferian Satanists that are running the show. They want us to believe that we are powerless. And we are NOT powerless. And that’s the message that I want to leave your audience. So I’m going to step down from my soapbox there [laughs] and Kerry can have the last few words. K: That’s absolutely what we believe and how we try to live our lives. What is most important is to reach a ratio of the number of awake minds on the planet that have broken free of the matrix. And who begin to understand what powerful co-creators we are. And then all we have to do is unite with a vision for the positive future that we’d like to see for ourselves. And that’s when we will begin to change and turn the tide. And I have to say that I think what’s happening now is that that’s actually what’s going on. And we hope that Project Camelot and Project Avalon are all part of that scenario which is unfolding. Because our planet is going through a major consciousness change. We're entering a place where we can create whatever we think. Therefore, be careful what you think! Be careful what you desire, because you will see it manifest quite instantly. And so, this is part of a new future that we have at our fingertips, really. And what is happening with the timelines that we’ve been describing and the fact that suddenly all bets are off and suddenly they changed so quickly that plans that have been in place for years and years by The Powers That Be and their minions -which is just average people feeling that they are powerless, giving their power over to the ruling class, and allowing them to manipulate them -- if they take their power back and begin to rethink what it is we’re doing here on the planet. Because this is a grand experiment and the reality is that we are all spiritual beings much far beyond our physical bodies. D: Well you know, excellent, excellent information. We are now down to less than 2 minutes remaining, and wow, you know, a lot of stuff to think about, a lot of information! And you guys have just been incredible. Let me repeat the websites: projectcamelot.org and projectavalon.net. For a forum of discussions on similar topics, these same topics and others, please visit the websites that Bill and Kerry have. Donate to their cause. Help them to continue their work. And we also invite you to visit paranexus.org -- we’re a professional association of paranormal researchers -- as well as our database, paranexus.net. We really want to say thank you to all of our listeners. I think we blew away our highs from before. We’ve had an awesome lot of listeners tonight, an amazing number. We really appreciate you taking your time. Grant, amazing, huh? G: Absolutely! And Bill and Kerry, it was a real pleasure to have you on the show, and you know, if time permits we’d certainly like to have you come back in the future to continue putting the message out there. The work that you do is wonderful and truly appreciated. I wish I could share with you all the comments, the wonderful comments, we’ve got in the chatroom about how much folks appreciate the hard work that you do. So thank you so very much. It’s been a real, real pleasure and we’d like to get together with you folks again some time. D: We are at the end of our rope here on the program, folks. Thanks again so much. You have a great night. We’ll see you next week. Goodnight. G: Goodnight everybody. K: Thank you. B: Goodnight.



Project Camelot: Telephone Interview With Ann Eller
Sedona, Arizona, December 2006 (released in September 2008)
This is reminiscent of the Serpo Project. (Serpo.org is the website in case you want to do more research about this.) As much as Serpo may be a lot of disinfo, there is a grain of truth having to do with the Secret Space Program, which is being investigated at this time by Richard C. Hoagland. I think you’ll enjoy this interview and we’re really pleased to be able to present Ann Eller to you at this time. This is Kerry Cassidy from Project Camelot. Ann Eller: I got up and spoke at that first conference. Leo asked me to say a few words. So I told everyone that Dr. Hynek sent his best to all of them, and also went on to talk a little bit about the research. And I happened to say: We don’t think you’re crazy. The government is in cahoots with the aliens. Kerry Cassidy: After that bombshell of a statement, we will get into the actual body of the interview. She made that statement during our interview as an outtake, and I just couldn’t resist putting it up front here... Start of interview As an experiencer, Ann reveals a fresh approach to what it was like working for Hynek - as well as what Hynek really thought and may have known about UFOs. She relates several anecdotes including a slightly different twist on Hynek's involvement as technical advisor to Steven Spielberg on Close Encounters of the Third Kind. This 28 minute interview, which we've only just released in September 2008 (having extracted some of the audio from a corrupted video) is an interesting and important new resource to all serious researchers and historians of the subject. Introduction Hi. This is Kerry Cassidy from Project Camelot. We had the good fortune a while back to interview Ann Eller, who worked for six months with J. Allen Hynek, and was good friends with him until his death in 1986. We haven’t released the interview for quite some time due to a problem with synchronizing the sound to the picture, because of what seemed to be an electromagnetic pulse that was sent to the camera during the interview. We are now releasing just the audio, because we feel that the content is so fascinating that - I think you’ll agree - it’s worth salvaging. Because of her time with Hynek, she has a completely different take on what he might have thought about UFOs as well as what might have occurred during the consultation he did with Steven Spielberg on Close Encounters of the Third Kind. He may have been the one to suggest the scene that you see at the end of the movie, in which you see Richard Dreyfuss and a group of scientists boarding an alien craft. I have felt most of my adult life that it was important to get this information out to the general public and to blow the whistle on the government and everything that they’ve kept under wraps for all these years. And so I signed up, giving my support to you, and in, I think that initial contact, I said, Oh, and by the way, I worked with Dr. Hynek for six months as his personal assistant when he moved out to Arizona. And then you got in touch with me. This was in 1985. K: OK. A: I think I started around March of 1985 and my tenure there ended in October. I went back to the hospital in October. I was a nurse at the time and left nursing for six months to do this with Dr. Hynek, because I thought it was an opportunity that I couldn’t pass up. K: Could you tell a little bit about how we got in contact with each other? Because you actually found us, which is a little unusual. A: Yes. I don’t know how I got to Project Camelot on the internet, but, you know, one link lead to another, lead to another, and I found your link and started reading about your project. And I thought, Well this is extremely worthy.

Ann Eller & J. Allen Hynek

In 1985-86, the last year of his life, Ann Eller was the personal assistant to the very well known ufologist J. Allen Hynek. Hynek, an astronomer and a physicist, acted as scientific adviser to three consecutive UFO studies undertaken by the US Air Force: Project Sign (1947-49), Project Grudge (1949-52), and the infamous Project Blue Book (1952-69). Starting out as a skeptic, Hynek came to understand that the UFOs and their occupants were very real indeed.


K: OK. You told us that, actually before this ever happened, you’d been having some dreams. A: Yes. That’s how I first contacted Dr. Hynek. Along about… Well, my whole history started in 1960 when I read the article in the Readers’ Digest about Betty and Barney Hill. And at the end of that article, the author said: Well, fact or fiction? We’ll leave it up to the reader to decide. And my reaction was one of being incensed. I thought, Of course it’s real. How I knew it was real, I have no idea, but I knew it was real. So I was interested in aliens, UFOs, since 1960. But it was in, probably 1976, I started having dreams, constant dreams, night after night after night, for about 4 years, of aliens, spacecraft, UFOs, other planets, other worlds, government involvement, helicopters, hidden bases… was all part of my dreams. And it was just about ready to drive me crazy, like I told you, a little bit like the guy in Close Encounters of the Third Kind with the mashed potatoes. [Kerry laughs]. But I started reading everything there was to read about UFOs. But in every book I picked up was Dr. Hynek’s name. And I decided, Well this is the guy that knows, that has all the answers, so I’m going to write to him and ask him just what’s up, and could he at least point me in a direction, introduce me to somebody in Arizona that I could talk to about these dreams. So I wrote to him and didn’t hear a word from him for about nine months. And then all of a sudden one night the phone rang and I picked it up. And he said, I’d love to speak with Ann Eller. And I said, Speaking. And he said, This is Dr. Hynek. Well you could have knocked me over with a feather at that point. [Kerry laughs]. But he said, I’m interested. He said, I just found your letter. It had dropped behind my desk and I just found it. And that was very typical, to lose the letter and find it nine months later. He had a quality of being sort of an absent-minded professor. And so he said, I’m very interested in your dreams. And so we chatted about those for a while. And he wanted to know if I’d kept a log of them. And I said, Well, sort of. I could probably pull it together. And he said he had a colleague -- and it was either Switzerland or Sweden; I think it was Switzerland -- that was doing a research project on these dreams, because they were worldwide. It was a worldwide phenomenon. And these people were able to convince him that he needed to come to the southwest. And I suppose the weather in Chicago, somehow, had a little to do with it, too. [Kerry laughs]. So they moved out. And it was probably 2 weeks after I had started at the center before I met him. And then I met him and I told him who I was, that I was the person that had sent him the dreams. Of course, I imagine that there were a thousand people that had done that. But about a week later he asked me if I would come be his assistant and set up his office. All his office supplies and furniture were coming soon. And he said, I can’t pay you much. He said, I’ll pay you $100 a week and we’ll try to get funding. And if we can get the funding in, then maybe we can make it a permanent thing. So I did it. I quit nursing and I went to work for him. And it was a great relationship. We had a very warm and very respectful friendship. I liked him a lot personally. I spent some time being very angry with him, but this was mostly after he died, that he had, during his years at Project Bluebook, So I typed up all the dreams and got them off to him, with the help of a dear friend, and I never heard anything more from him. And it was probably six years later, I opened up the Phoenix paper and here the headline’s on the second page: Dr. J. Allen Hynek Brings UFO Research to Arizona. I couldn’t believe it! And it was practically in my back yard. It was just down the street, up Indian School. So I decided I had to be involved. I was working at the hospital, nights. But one morning when I got off from work, I drove over there and met Tina and Bryan, who were the couple that brought… were instrumental in bringing Hynek to Arizona, along with a couple of other people. And they were living in this condo. And they were going to have the research project there in their condo. And they needed somebody to set up an office. So I said, Well, I’ve gotta be involved. Whether I feed the cat or take the trash out, I didn’t care. I had to be involved. So I came… I would work nights, come mornings, and set up the office and set up the filing system and take calls. People were calling already. I mean, they hadn’t hardly gotten settled but people were calling, reporting sightings. K: Now, this was during the time when Hynek was already, was through… theoretically, through… working with the Air Force and no longer working on Bluebook and all that, right? A: Yes. K: That was all behind him. A: That was all behind him. That project ended in 1969. So at that time, then, he left, and went to Northwestern University where he was a professor of astronomy and set up CUFOS in Chicago. That was his UFO research project in Chicago. So for those years, that’s what he was doing as a civilian.


had hindered or injured so many people and their lives by explaining away their experiences and telling them that, no, they didn’t see what they saw. It was Venus chasing the moon. It was the swamp gas. It was an airplane. It was a weather balloon. Whatever. But he was hired to be the debunker and he was doing his job and he did a good job. K: Mm hm. A: But I was very angry about that. Because at the end of his life, the last thing he said to me was: I have had my own experiences. Now during the six months, I would periodically ask him: Have they contacted you yet? Have you seen a ship yet? [Kerry laughs] You know, just kidding around. And we’d just joke about it. But he was very serious at this point. And when he looked at me, he had that knowing look in his eyes: I’ve had my own experiences. And he took it to his grave. You know? Nobody else knew that, that I know of. Maybe Mimi knew it, his wife. K: So, to back up a little bit, he sent you out to cover a conference in Laramie, Wyoming, is that right? A: Yes. It was a UFO conference of contactees and investigators. And it was held at the University of Wyoming, and Leo Sprinkle was the host. He was professor of psychology at the university. He was also a hypnotist. He would put people under hypnosis and take them back and see if they’d had any contacts, if they’d had any abductions. There had been a little bit of criticism about the way in which he did this and they weren’t sure whether it was “totally professional.” He said, Why don’t you just go up there and meet Leo? Check it out. Meet some of the other people. He said, I think you’ll enjoy it. Because I enjoyed the personal side of the whole UFO scenario, and the metaphysical and the spiritual aspect of it too. So I went. K: What you said before was, that Hynek was very into the nuts and bolts? A: Oh, yes. Very definitely. Very concerned about his credentials. Didn’t want those being marred in any way, so was very tight-lipped -- very tight-lipped -- played everything very close to his chest. And if we had an opinion, he’d keep it to himself pretty much, unless it had to do with the nuts and bolts. He wanted tangible proof. He had to either see the ship, take a picture of a ship, touch the ship, have some kind of radiation from the ship… those kinds of nuts and bolts. K: Uh huh. And when you were working for him, did you ever see pictures or photographs of UFOs cross your desk? A: Yes. A lot of them. K: A lot of them. OK. A: Old ones, you know, from years and years back, where the film was bad, very grainy. Oh yes, lots of UFO pictures. A: I don’t know about Jacques. Jacques was very prominent in the UFO field. He did a lot of writing; very personable, very important in France. Of course he was French but living in the United States. And they did go to a high level UFO conference in K: And did you ever… because you would file documents for him, is this right? A: Yes. K: So did you ever come across, I don’t know, information about Roswell or, you know, that kind of thing? A: Well, we came across a lot of documents that were declassified, had been at one point Top Secret. But about 7/8 of the document would be blacked out, inked out, and you’d get maybe a half a sentence here and a half a sentence there. So it really didn’t mean a heck of a lot. I did see a list of the names that were in Majestic 12. K: Do you recall those names? A: Well, one of them was Rockefeller. That was a name I recognized. I might recognize some names. It seems to me there some admirals. And maybe Brzezinski was one of the names. But we knew that President Eisenhower had had a meeting with the aliens at one of the Air Force bases. I think it was Holloman. K: When you say you “knew”… meaning you and Hynek? Or Hynek made you aware of this? Or, how did that work? A: I’m very reluctant to say that Hynek ever said anything like that. It was more Tina and Bryan and me, and all the people that came through the center, all the information that we picked up from people that came through the center. We were aware that Eisenhower had met with the aliens, and I believe it was at Holloman Air Force Base, and that was back in the ‘50s. If you’ve read Alternative 3, that’s enough to put a crack in your cosmic egg [Kerry laughs] about the government, you know, being a benevolent government. K: So was Alternative 3 something that Hynek would have also been aware of? A: Oh, I think very definitely. Because in 1960 -- and he was very much involved with the Air Force then -- in l960, that’s when Alternative 3 took place. All those scientists got together, of which he was a scientist. Now, whether he was actually involved in any of their deliberations, I’m not sure. K: Now what about Jacques Vallee? Because you said, is this right, he was one of the people that visited Hynek? A: Yes, he did. They were very good friends. K: Do you think that he was, you know, I don’t know, maybe sort of …


Paris that summer of ‘85, he and Hynek. And it was the United States, the French, the Japanese, and the Russians that met that summer. I was never told anything dramatic that came out of that meeting. But the French were way ahead of us. They had already put out a booklet to the civilian population, what to do if you come across a UFO parked, you know, in the field. So… K: Now you told us an anecdote about Jacques Vallee. Can you repeat that for the camera? In other words, something about that he was upset with Hynek over the swamp gas situation? A: Yes. The story went -- and this came during a conversation with Dr. Hynek, and I was sitting there -- was that they were reminiscing about the swamp gas episode. And that Jacques was upset with Hynek because he had gone on camera and had said, This is swamp gas. And he said, Why didn’t you call me? Why didn’t you? I would have come and we could have, you know, we could have done this thing together. K: In other words, he could have thought of something differently? Was that the implication? A: That was the implication, that it would have been done a lot better than it had been. K: The swamp gas was a poor excuse for … OK. A: So that was one incident. K: And then, some of the other people that came to visit Hynek while you worked for him. Can you remember anything in relation to these people? A: Dr. Willard Smith came and he was a very dear friend of Dr. Hynek’s. They were old and close friends and they looked like cosmic twins. They were about the same height, stature, looked just alike. He was from Florida. He was an astrophysicist. And they just, they were just good fellows, you know? Dr. Smith, I understand, got some of Dr. Hynek’s files when Dr. Hynek died. They were very close. And he did visit him that summer and Dr. Hynek went to Florida to visit him also. They would work together in cahoots all the time. K: OK. So, both of them were involved in investigating… I’m assuming “the work,” when you say “work,” it was investigating UFO reports? A: Yes. K: What about crashes? Did you ever see information about crashed disks? Did he ever… A: We saw... There was a film that we got into the center that we looked at that was supposedly a crashed UFO in Canada. I remember the lights flashing, the red and white lights on top of this craft. And that’s all I remember about that, about a crash. So there was one in Canada that we saw. K: When you say “the dragon was breathing down his neck,” was there any evidence that he was visited by people or that any pressure was brought to bear? Did he ever receive phone calls or, you know, were you aware of any kind of surveillance upon him? A: No, I wasn’t. I can’t tell you that I was. We knew that all of our phones were bugged. We knew that to be a fact. And right after I first started working there, I developed migraine headaches, which I’d never had before, and they lasted for 10 years. Now, whether that had anything to do with any psychotronics or anything, I have no idea. But as far as I know, there were no Men in Black. There were no rough-‘em-up guys that I was aware of ever coming. K: But he never crossed any lines, from the sound of things. A: No. He didn’t. K: He basically bought into the entire party line, so he wasn’t a threat in any way, so it’s unlikely he would be pressured, at least overtly. A: Right. K: What about his death? Did you think that his death was a completely natural occurrence? A: There was a lot of speculation in the center that it was not. But how do you know? And how do you prove that? Certainly a man But you have to … People don’t stop to ask themselves this question. Dr. Hynek was the civilian chief astronomer for the United States Air Force for 20 years, from 1948 to 1969. He had top level clearance, secret clearance. So for 20 years -- and this was all in the area of unidentified flying objects -- for 20 years he was on the front line of what was happening. He has to have seen the alien bodies, the crashed craft. I think even more than that, the other operations that were going on that we’ve heard about, like Serpo and also… Because if you remember, in Close Encounters of the Third Kind, of which Dr. Hynek was a technical advisor, there was a group of chosen military people who went into the craft that were being exchanged to go to the planet. K: So in other words… Often we have wondered where Spielberg might have gotten his information to include that in the screenplay. And what you’re basically saying here is that it’s possible that he got it from Hynek. A: It’s possible. Or it could have been… More the scenario would be, Spielberg would imagine to Hynek that, What if we had some kind of an exchange program going on with the aliens, and we put that into the movie? Would that be OK? And then Hynek might say, Well, yeah. You could explore that or maybe put that in. I think that’s a little more realistic. Dr. Hynek was going to be very careful about what he said to anybody because… Well, the dragon was breathing down his neck, too, during all that time.


of his age – and I want to tell you about Haley’s Comet, so don’t let me forget. K: OK. A: But certainly a man of his age, 76, it’s a very natural thing for him to develop prostate cancer. But it didn’t get better. And he sought specialists in St. Louis at Barnes Hospital, and also in San Francisco. And it just metastasized and then he eventually died in March of ‘86. But what I want to tell you is, Hynek was convinced that he would die at the age of 76 in 1986. He was born in 1910, the year of Haley’s Comet and he knew that when Haley’s Comet came back around again, 76 years later, that he’d be ushered out. K: Really? Did he tell you this? A: Yes, he did. He told me that. K: That’s fascinating. A: I thought that was interesting, too. And in fact that’s exactly what happened. K: So, just to wrap up, what else can you tell us? Are there any other pieces of information that you think might be useful to the public in relation to Hynek? A: Well, I would like to mention the log that he had. One day I discovered, on the bookshelf as I was tidying up, this log that he had written in every day and it was in code. And I thought to myself, Why in the world would he be keeping a daily log in code? And the code looked something like Morse Code, like dotdot-dash kinds of things. There were no words written. There were just the dates and then this type of code. And of course, you know, we’re always suspicious of everything in this UFO field. And I thought, Is it possible that he could be . There was one other incident. It was a letter that I found that was unopened, and it was postmarked 1954. And you know, Hynek was professor of astronomy at the Ohio State University for a while. And this came from an Asian or oriental. It was an oriental name. It was either like Wong or Ling or something like that. And it said, basically, that this person -- he could have been a student, he could have been a colleague at the university -- had discovered these signals in their radio telescope. They had identified these signals coming from the area of Venus and that they were “intended,” or they were transmissions, or they were… there was an intelligence behind these transmissions. It wasn’t just something that was happening in the weather. K: And so this letter had remained unopened until you saw it and decided to open it. Is that right? A: That’s right. I was the secretary and I thought, Good grief, there’s a letter from… And it wasn’t hard for me to imagine he just forgot to open it. K: OK. A: So I opened it and I was shocked. And then I realized that this was probably sent to Hynek for Hynek to hold in case, at such time somebody else discovered these transmissions and declared life on Venus and got the credit for it, that this guy had done it first. So I showed it to Dr. Hynek and he just made light of it and took it and I never saw it again. working both sides of the street? But until that time, I would not have ever guessed it. He played it very straight the whole time I was there.

K: I hope you enjoyed this interview. This has been a Project Camelot production. And this is Kerry Cassidy. Produced by Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy. Thank you.



Project Camelot: Jim Sparks and Bill Holden: 'Making the Connection' Transcript
Jim Sparks and Bill Holden: Making the Connection Las Vegas, April 2008
BH: Now, this was where Bell Lab came in, ‘cause Bell Lab had the UFO that was found at Roswell... Bell Lab had that. JS: The original? BH: The original, okay? And then they were saying, “Well, we need to get that craft back!” And they were suing Bell Lab, okay? The US government was suing Bell Lab and General Electric, and one other. I don’t know whether it was AT&T, or whoever it was. But this was all technology that was gained from the ETs, the graylings, and the reverse engineering that came off of that craft. JS: Mm hm. When we were in Las Vegas to interview John Lear, we called both Bill Holden and Jim Sparks to see if they'd like to meet with us again. We also suggested that they might like to take the opportunity to meet one another for the first time, in our presence. We were privileged to capture on camera, with their permission, the most interesting conversation which ensued. We hope you enjoy it as much as we did. BH: Okay? For instance, like it went from... In radio communications they were able to go to... I don’t know the technology and everything, but anyway - the upgraded technology came from that. Laser came from that, all this other stuff. The electromagnetic propulsion system came from this craft, ‘cause that’s how they moved - through the electromagnetic field. And Gordon Cooper... I asked him, because we were dear, dear friends, and I did a personal interview on him and everything. And I asked him - I says, “Well, have you ever flown a UFO?” And he says, “Yep!” Bill Holden: ... and everything that was going on. But what it was... it was the testing of the lasers, okay? They had ‘em mounted on backpacks, they had ‘em mounted on helicopters, and they had ‘em mounted on jeeps. They had ‘em mounted on trucks, whatever it was. They weren’t gonna run out there and kill ten thousand people, so they were just did it with the animals. Jim Sparks: And we’re in the ‘60s still, right? BH: It was the early ‘60s, right. JS: Early ‘60s? Kennedy era, or just after? BH: I think it was a little after that. But the thing that you’re looking at, is that this was all part of the exchange of the technology. JS: Right. Right. And I said, “Well, what’d you think about it?” He said, “Well, it was great – it was stopping the thing!” [laughs] He said, “How d’ya stop it?!” JS: Did he feel the G-forces or not? BH: Uh... No! No. He said there was no G-force. The other thing that was unique about it was when we did the interview at the Alisal Ranch. I can’t remember the colonel’s name, but he was an Army Lt.-Colonel in the National Guard that lived on the ranch. His father was the one who went out and picked up the parts and actually ended up putting ‘em in the Cadillac convertible and bringing them back to the farm, and buried it and did all that stuff with it.

Start of conversation


Well, at this conference they brought some of the uh, stuff from that crash that they had been keeping all this time. And one of it was a little aluminum I-beam about so long, about so wide and about so long, [indicates a couple of inches in length] and it had these hieroglyphics on it, and I said, “Wait a minute, I’ve seen this – this is like the Arabic Sanskrit that went with the Phoenicians!” And somebody pulled it up and all of a sudden they started matching up some of the symbols. JS: With the Arabic and Phoenician? BH: Right, it was on there. So that was real interesting. We had a Russian astronaut there - we had two KGB members there, and the security and everything that went on at this thing... I would have sworn that the president was gonna walk in on this! We had two of our astronauts there. We had a couple of generals. We had - I mean, it was neat! JS: Do you think this was contact, you would know I would say contact stemming from the ‘40s and ‘50s that bring it to the point where they were interacting this way? Or was this recent interaction from that period in the ‘60s? BH: I think what happened and why we had this interview – that was in 1995, okay, when this took place. JS: Okay. JS: Was it in the tunnels? BH: Okay? Now what’s interesting about this was - all the people that were at this conference - it was a fact-gathering, and it was a basis for everyone getting together to be able to understand how big this was. JS: Right. BH: Okay? Because everybody, basically... there was pockets of it, pockets of information... it was basically on that. The first time I met Bob Brown was in 1995 when I gave the first talk right here in Las Vegas ... no, it was in Mesquite at the conference there ... and that was phenomenal, okay? To stand up in front of 1500 people and tell your story. It was... Oh God, it was phenomenal! JS: Sure! I guess what I’m asking is, just to put some input with you on this... for myself, it started in mid-1988 and not wanting anything to do with it. And it was directly, you know, right from my home, and it was ambiguous - there was no frame of reference. The M.O. so to speak, was isolation, fear, confusion. And that lead into a 6-year period that almost was... made no sense. And then it went on from there, from, years 7 to years 13, where I saw an agenda; and then from years 13 to the present, where it has evolved, without going into a lot of detail. So whatever campaign that they were on for myself, it started in ‘88. So I was just a little bit curious that you had these interactions when you said, almost, you know, to the shoulder... right? Or that close? BH: In the tunnel. JS: When you say they were talking about the non-humans... BH: Right, yeah. The engineers were talking about it. They said as far as that technology and exchange and everything that took place, and it was like the development... in talking to the engineer who was actually one of the patent-holders that developed the nuclear boring machine - that kind of thing. But I was, oh, I tell you... with the experiences that you’re talking about, it was very much like the personal one that I had, when I was stationed down in Florida in Coco Beach. JS: I was going to say, what part? BH: Okay... Coco Beach, and this is in late summer. JS: I used to surf there in my early 20s. [laughs] BH: So I’m down there fishing right there on the river, and I had just put my poles out and everything and I had just cast out, and I leaned back against a tree and everything. And the next thing I know, I wake up... I’m here. I haven’t pulled the lines in; I haven’t fished or anything. I had been abducted, okay? And that’s where I’m lying on a pedestal table, and... JS: So here you are at point ‘A’ - fishing, near Coco Beach, and then you black out, so to speak. BH: Yeah. JS: That was in the early ‘60s. And so what I’m curious about is what lead to that sort of interaction even then? Was that stemming from the ‘40s and ‘50s, where there was actually contact in that respect? Because you’ve got so many different scenarios, as you well know. BH: You better believe it! JS: From, “of course, we’re not interacting with them.” From, “they don’t exist.” To - you know, “we’re not official.” To, “we’re not interacting with them.” - to all these different, you know, stories, ranging from... BH: Right. There’s been a lot of military interaction - a lot of Air Force, a lot of Navy. A huge Navy... JS: Friendly. So we’re talking friendly. BH: Friendly? It’s interaction, from the development of exchange and everything else that’s going on. And from developmental all this time through the ‘60s I saw it was developmental, okay? And then when I started doing research as far as into the tunnels Area 51, talking to an engineer that was talking about that there was a tunnel from ‘TA-39’, out of Deadwood, all the way to Area 51, which is over 150 miles. And they were able to travel this thing in 35 - 37 minutes, okay?


BH: ... I’m gone. JS: And now you’re at point ‘B’. BH: I’m on the craft, okay? I’m in this domed craft. No visible lighting fixtures you can see. JS: Right. BH: But it’s... you have an iridescent light in there. JS: What years are you talking? BH: This is in ‘71 or ‘72. JS: Son of a bitch! So they tagged your butt back from the ‘60s. BH: Oh, yeah. JS: And they pulled you in the ‘70s, at least the conscious aspect of it. BH: Okay. Now, here’s what’s funny - I’ve got one tall and two short ETs on my left hand side. I’m looking up and there’s no other thing as far as in this domed room, but one uh, seal that’s up on the ceiling, okay? And it’s three gold stars on a brilliant blue background, okay? When I came back I contacted my commander. He says, “You be in my office at 0700!” So I went in the next morning and I get interviewed and everything like this, and I tell him all about what happened. And after a couple hours of interviews and everything, this individual said, “I know you’re curious and everything as to whether you are the only one. Let me tell you this; men, women - military and civilian, that had been abducted - the one commonality that was between all of you...” Every one of them described that seal. Every one of them saw that same seal. And it was from one ET to nine ETs that had been in the room and everything. But every one of them said about being on a pedestal and from that... [displays forearm] JS: I see it... I feel it. BH: Right there. That’s been there ever since. JS: And see, you’re like myself; perfectly content with this... JS: Say the years again? BH: The same way I am. BH: ’96. JS: ...with my body. BH: They ask me – a number of people have asked me: “What do you feel about it? What do you feel about the whole thing?” And I says, “Beam me up, Scotty!” JS: At that time, I would say, off the top of my head... 40 to 60 percent? BH: It was over 90 percent believed it. JS: Yeah! Right! BH: I’m gone! JS: Exactly! BH: And it has been such a phenomenal experience, because I saw these lights as a child back in the ‘50s, out on the farm. And then I had my encounter - as far as in ‘62, I had the second sighting. And then I went on the three missions that were actual Air Force military missions and saw the craft, saw the ETs. So there’s no question in my mind. I knew it was real. JS: Yeah, right - what was the gist of the, uh... as you may think it would be, back in the ‘70s, with the 17 people being abducted? What was related to you at that point? BH: Nothing else was said. It was all classified - because I was told not to discuss it with anybody, not to reveal it to anybody. And basically, not knowing anything at that time, technically - oh God, I wish I knew then what I know now, as far as... I’d a’ taken notes. I would have done all kinds of stuff. JS: Right-right-right. BH: And then I turned around and I told friends and everything, and others that have been abducted, or are going through experiences, or researchers, all of this. In fact - all three of the missions, I had to sign a twenty-year nondisclosure agreement under penalty of, you know, full prosecution and everything. And I didn’t... I didn’t say anything about it. JS: So then, of course you honored it, right? BH: Yeah, right. But after that, in ‘95, I... JS: Spilled the beans? [laughs] BH: The title of my speech and everything is ‘Let the Truth Be Known’ because all this other BS is... In ‘96, when I did my tour, my speaking tour - when I went to Philadelphia, when I went to New York, when I went to Washington and everything - I interviewed a hundred people from age 18 into the 80s. And I said, “All I want to do is ask you one question, and I want a ‘yes’ or a ‘no’:do you believe in UFO and ET phenomena?” Now this is 1996. Tell me what the percentage you think were “yes” at that time.


JS: Wow! Wow. BH: And it’s amazing, because I would say the population believes it. They absolutely believe that there’s UFOs and ETs; and again it’s just a matter of... one day soon we’re gonna really know about it. And then what is going to be our involvement, how are we... what’s gonna happen? JS: How can we integrate with what it’s all about? BH: I do. BH: Yeah. Yeah. JS: You know, I guess what came to mind was – again, back to the fishing expedition in Coco Beach - I sort of got a sense from what you were talking about, just a sense – that that may have been the early stages of the human abduction scenario, without an agenda or without much of an agenda. Were you aware of much of an agenda at that time, when it came to the masses of the people on the globe in general? BH: No. Let me kind of put it this way: under separate occasions I’ve been given a message. I was given the message to tell this, “Tell them to stop destroying Mother Earth.” JS: God damn! BH: Okay - the second message, “Tell them to learn to love one another.” Thirdly, “Increase your mental and heart to a higher level.” We only use 3 to 5 percent of our brain, and they’re telling us, “Use it. Learn how to use the powers that you have within yourself.” JS: Yeah. I like that they... BH: That was amazing. JS: It is amazing. The strongest... the emphasis - and you mention three things and it’s almost similar - which is the first emphasis for myself and others, is the environment. And, like you said, the planet, our planet – [we have] to clean up our own back yard before we can even consider joining the galactic neighborhood. BH: Exactly! JS: Also this issue with evolving, as far as the human species is concerned... I don’t claim to embrace alien culture and I’m suspicious. I have a healthy suspicion of what is advised at all times, and I let these things play themselves out before I’m comfortable with, “Well, I believe now that this is what it is.” But the part about the environment is extremely important and according...we are advised by them that this isn’t the first time that human beings have been where we’re at today on this planet - being the population, being the technology, being with its resources - and have gotten to this point... [to Holden] It looks like I’m striking a chord with you - where we can either selfdestruct or evolve. Everybody tells us that we’ve only been here for ‘x’ [number of years], okay? The Bible - and we, as a ‘spirited’ civilization – humanity - as far as with the spirit, that’s only been for a period of... we as Christians know it as 6,000 years, okay? The Greeks see it as being 7,000 years. Now I was in Peru, and I was part of a team that filmed the Nazca Plains after the astronauts saw these signs on the Nazca Plain.... JS: Right. Right-right-right. BH: ... when they were coming back in. And then I was physically on the Nazca Plain, stood inside the... as far as the... whatever the sign is. And then I was inside the caves at Lake Titicaca and I saw the drawings on the walls of helmeted beings, craft, all of this. I was in a building inside Lima - about 5,000 – 7,500 square feet - that had documented... there were skeletons. There were documented collections there that had been dated and everything, that were 60,000 years old.... JS: Beautiful! Beautiful. BH: ... 80,000 years old, okay? So all of a sudden, “Wait a minute - what happened to the Bible and 6,000, 7,000 years as humanity and everything?” Well, to me - a friend of mine told me what the word “Bible” means: ‘Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth’. [Kerry laughs off camera]. It was given to us as a way of a lifestyle that is loving one another. That’s what it’s all about. JS: Right. BH: If we go through it, we look at the history, the fighting, the devastation, the destruction. God, the Supreme Being - okay? I was asked... my closing statement - at the conference in 1995 at Bob Brown’s convention, I was asked, “Do you believe in God?” I said, “Let me answer this: (as a young man, grandson of a Methodist preacher in South Georgia, and my growing up in the Methodist church, I said) for me to believe that we are the only intelligent beings in all of God’s creations... no, I can’t believe that.” JS: Right. BH: Yes. JS: So, unfortunately we’ve in the past - again, advised through them or by them - that we’ve taken the course of self-destruction, where a handful of us survive. And then it may take a few hundred thousand years, in some cases several million years, to bring us where we are today, and the same scenario has played itself out. Did you want to comment on that? Because I see it...


BH: Okay? Secondly, that I believe in a Supreme Being that is the creator of all animate and inanimate beings, objects, and life; that I choose to call God - and that’s the way I closed. JS: That’s very good. Very good. BH: And, God! I get some... JS: I’m enjoying this thoroughly. BH: ... for me to have experienced all of this in my lifetime... JS: Right. BH: ... from a child on a farm in Georgia, and seeing the lights and asking, “What is that?” because it was a triangle of light that moved over the place. JS: What part of Georgia? BH: Yeah. BH: Macon - Forsythe, Georgia, at that time. But from there to the experiences in ‘62, ’63 - the meeting with President Kennedy, and showing him the picture of those three UFO’s in Germany that were filmed the day before, and the number of UFOs that had been seen and everything - and for him to ask me what did I think about it? And then I turned to him and I says, “What do you think, Sir?” BH: Exactly. And with that beautiful smile of his, he looked at me and he just says, “I asked you first.” JS: Very wise man! [laughs] BH: And then I gave him basically that answer. But I wish, like I’ve said so many times, I wish I knew then what I know now... JS: Sure, sure. BH: ... just to be able to ask the right questions, to see where we’re going! But I’ve been asked if I feared them - at no time have I ever feared any of the encounters. I’ve looked forward to it. It was like me being a pioneer or Indiana Jones and everything, and going out there and seeing and discovering, and everything. I’ve enjoyed it - I’ve enjoyed it immensely, and just like I’ve said so many times, “Beam me up, Scotty!” I’d go in a heartbeat. JS: Sure! Well, you know, I’m like you when I’m ever asked, you know; the issue with God or the Creator. When it comes to this, my response is always the same, which is: it’s humankind - mankind, who puts a cap or a limit on what God has created, which are the mysteries beyond what we understand. JS: So now we’re dealing with non-human intelligent beings that we are commonly referring to as ‘grays’, interacting in an official capacity, a military capacity - a government capacity, in your respect. And in my respect, it’s purely a civilian capacity, although I love my country - it’s number one, it’s first and foremost, there’s nothing else - yeah, as you understand. But nonetheless, on a civilian capacity, this is the same sort of interaction. And I think it’s fascinating how it - and we’re just first meeting here - so how it comes together like that at this point. BH: And I so agree with that because right now I’m a developer. I’m trying to put some resources together. And everything I’m putting in it is state of the art, green technology, desalinization plants, waste remediation, 100% electric power and everything. And then actually where I’m trying to go with it is, I want to take it to electromagnetic, okay? Where it’s controllable electromagnetic in the special field - and that’s something I’m working on right now. JS: You’re extremely... I take it you’re extremely science... you’re extremely environmentally sensitive, to that respect... BH: I wasn’t. JS: You weren’t until afterwards? BH: Yeah. And it’s the kind of thing that... I was raised as a farm boy down in South Georgia. JS: But going back to that, one of the first outstanding statements that you made, which is that the path that you were on from the past, and the path from the past to the present, and the path from my past to the present, although they had different beginnings, it’s still leading to the same message, from what I’m pulling together at this point. In a sense, you... I see something similar here, although you operated on an official capacity and within the means of your rank and what you were doing, but you were only privy - in a sense, it was compartmentalized, so you were only privy to so much information... BH: Right. JS: ... and that’s what you pulled together in that period, and it’s what I pulled together in that period. What I find fascinating here is - in essence, we’re dealing with non-human intelligent beings. We’re dealing with beings who have evolved well beyond where we’re at now, which I think you would, and I would, like to see the same thing happen. What I’m finding fascinating here is that my initiation into this, and particularly the 6 years, as I mentioned earlier, has been that of no frame of reference - ambiguous, without being able to really get a feel as to why, what, where, when, or what it’s about.


JS: I love the aspect that you’re from that part of the country because I was originally raised in South Florida and Florida. And so I’m familiar with the South. I grew up in the South. Also I did business in the South - as I mentioned to you earlier, my business was in North Carolina. BH: Right. JS: I also worked in Georgia quite a bit. I think I was in every small town. I think I worked in every small town and in every city that there is in the entire southeastern United States for like a three-and-a-half, four-year period. BH: Wow. JS: And I can relate to your background. BH: Right. Kerry Cassidy: Can I interrupt here, because, you know, this is great, and we don’t have to put this on the net or anything... JS: Doesn’t matter. KC: ... we just turned on the camera. BH: This is fine. KC: This may be a once in a lifetime thing, but - what about 2012? Because I think [to Sparks] you’ve been told some information about that. Sounds like you [to Holden] haven’t. BH: No, I brought that up. And in fact in the interview we talked about that - 2012 is a very important date. JS: I stay away from that. I stay away from publicly commenting on that. KC: Okay. JS: Not that I’m hiding anything. And I didn’t mean to ... go ahead and finish your thought. KC: If we turn off the cameras we can do that. JS: It doesn’t matter to me if they’re on or if they’re off on this issue. KC: Uh huh. JS: You know, when you have ‘a calling’, so to speak - mine is in an area regarding the environment, as you’re familiar with my work, putting together the ‘Your Earth Foundation’ to buy up rainforest land - all of it so that the human species can evolve. An amnesty bill - by the way, the issue with disclosure versus amnesty - I don’t want to say ‘versus’ because they work hand in hand. But what we’re about here with the Your Earth Foundation is to put together an amnesty bill that creates an KC: Okay, but to get back... you had the idea of amnesty for black-ops? BH: I wrote a letter to the president in 1996, requesting that specifically. JS: Cool. BH: 1996. KC: But that’s totally valid! You know, we’re not here to look for ‘negative’ information. We’re here to get just whatever input you have got... JS: Sure. KC: ... and I just remember from our last discussion, that you had some information given to you or shown to you ... I don’t know, on a television screen, or whatever that was at that point. JS: Oh, in the years earlier. I think what you’re referring to - and I can be corrected - was back... This was very common during the abduction scenarios, particularly from the late ‘80s through the ‘90s, which almost every abduction either included scenes - out of order - of the future; scenes almost in holographic form - out of order - from the past; scenes from the present, so one couldn’t get a frame of reference as to be able to pin it down exactly when things would happen. Even in the abduction scenario in general, what I find is the physical memory, even if it’s a positive experience, is taken away. Because if you were enhanced with some knowledge, the physical memory gets in the way - or the experience can get in the way - of the positive things you can do from the interaction. But when it comes to these scenes, I’ve just seen many, many different scenes and I couldn’t specifically put them in order. And I may have been referring to that at the time that you asked me, or it could have been another area. What I find interesting is, over time - which these things started almost 20 years ago - is from time to time, I see these things come about. But I never know when it’s gonna do it! So I can’t say, “Hey okay, so what I saw here, or what I saw there... gee - it’s 2012! I just can’t say that. avenue where black-ops, sanctioned and unsanctioned agencies, either singularly or group-wise, can come forward voluntarily with what they want to expose, without recourse - versus disclosure in which you are forcing it in their face, and which I think they... KC: So there’s a lot of information in that regard; at least, that you feel you’ve been told. JS: Well, you know, I think 2012 will only be important, (and me staying away from that area) with... a change. I don’t see it as a destructive thing. I don’t see it as a cataclysmic change. I see it as an era of positive change.


JS: This is amazing, this is amazing. KC: So you have a lot of parallels. BH: We do, and, jus’... you and I have gotta sit down. [laughs] JS: Yeah. BH: We’ve got to be together. JS: You just happen to live in Vegas as I do. BH: Yeah. This is great. We’ve got to. Because, uh... I have another meeting I have to go to, at six. But this is great. Thank y’all so much for arranging this and bringing this together. KC: It seemed like a natural synchronicity. JS: Yeah. And you know what I’ve kept strong about, if we take off of this ... and it’s been very difficult, and almost sacrificial in a sense. Since ’88, up to this point, I’ve stayed away from all the movies. And you know, as I mentioned to you, Bill and Kerry, and I’ve also mentioned to you, [indicating Holden] that I stay away from reading in any depth or any detail other peoples’ work, movies on the subject. And I shy away from it as much as possible throughout these last 20 years, so as not to cloud my interactions with others, because they’re so close - I don’t want to cloud ‘em together. So I’ve kept myself as best as I could, separate from that. And in a lot of cases, it is a sacrifice. I haven’t even seen Independence Day. So, when was that - ten years ago? [laughs] Not to mention a lot of things that have come up. And what I find is, when opportunities like this come about, to see how things parallel, you know, interweaving my experiences with others... BH: Right. I just loved your reaction to some of the things that I said. And it is, it’s so... to come right off that, when you don’t know each other and then you basically see how parallel these situations are and the knowledge that we’ve gained from our own personal experiences. Now I’m the opposite of that. In other words... JS: That’s your calling. Go ahead, I’m listening. BH: I want to go find out everything I can about it from others, as to what their experiences are. But 2012 has some unique features about it as far as the importance of that. And one is the end of the Aztec calendar, as is stated. In certain things that I’ve done from the military side and being inside the presidential arm and everything, hearing conversations - 2012 has been brought up a number of times. JS: Even from the earlier periods in your experience? BH: The earlier periods, and in the conversation in ‘95 at the conference. Now that was put on, by the way, by the Rockefellers, by the Rockefeller Foundation. That whole thing was paid for, okay? JS: So we’re talking 17 years from earlier... BH: Exactly. JS: Right. BH: Exactly. And so this is why I say... when we start putting things together and we start adding things up, and the times that we’re going through - when we look back to where we started in the early ‘60s and watching my experiences, watching what has happened, and look at how we have evolved in the scientific and technological advances that have occurred in less than 50 years... JS: Right. Right. BH: ... has been monumental, okay? But we go back to the period of the Phoenicians, umpteen thousand years ago, the surgical tools and instruments that they had - some are still being utilized today in heart and brain surgery. JS: Fascinating. BH: It’s amazing. Amazing. JS: Yeah. So, along with that on the same page, is, in a little bit more detail, in one respect - which is - again, I was advised, I don’t claim to embrace, but I have a healthy suspicion about it until it plays itself out - that when you’re talking 60,000 or 70,000 years ago, and these guys, as in grays, talk million and millions... BH: Exactly. JS: ... and it’s something we’ve done. But the difference today is, where we have an edge, I believe, Bill, and also advised as having an edge, (and it goes back to this amnesty thing) and I know you need to go, so I’ll kind of close it on this with you - is the fact that there’s more technical knowledge that can change the face of the Earth as we know it, in human hands today, than there ever has been in the past. BH: Absolutely. JS: We could never really rely on the ETs, so to speak, because if we could have... The track record shows it didn’t happen; we haven’t evolved. And in this case we have a big edge because it IS in human hands, and it’s more or less up to us to get our act together - look inward, see us for what we really are, and we have a good chance at evolving this time versus self-destructing. And that avenue of amnesty, where they can volunteer what they want - and not to go too far, but to briefly say - the issue or the problem is, is you’ve got a growing majority in those areas that want to see this out. But unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how you look at it ... in their case unfortunately, which makes sense), a lot of it is tied in with not just national security, but global security. BH: Exactly.


JS: And they do not want to be forced to bring out the whole enchilada, because they’re not going to do it. But if they can come out in a clemency sort of way with just what’s important that can change things, that would make the whole difference in the world. BH: I agree, and the other side of it is... it’s just like in the prebriefing when Reagan was being briefed by the CIA as to what was going on... in that briefing he was advised that there were thirty-nine known species of ETs - thirty-nine! Not just the graylings. JS: Right. Right. BH: Thirty-nine others, okay? And that’s where we get into the reptilians, the Andromedans, ... you name it. JS: Right. It’s probably as wide a variety of life out there as there is on this planet. BH: Exactly. So that’s why I said... I have so enjoyed this. JS: So have I. BH: And I look forward to us getting together. You’ve got my card? JS: Yeah. . . BH: Yeah, okay. JS: Count on it. BH: We’ll get together. I look forward to it. JS: As a wise man once told me, “Convenience stimulates use.” [laughs] So we happen to live in the same town. [Kerry laughing off screen] BH: We have to. Bill and Kerry, thank you so much. I just so appreciate this, and don’t be strangers when you come into town. KC: No, absolutely! Okay, next time we’re going to take you up on that, all right? BH: Please do. KC: We’ll get back to you again. We’ll all go out for dinner or something. JS: This is wonderful, spontaneous like this, and the way it ended up. The energy’s great. KC: It’s great. You know, I mean, it’s a lot of fun. It’s been great to see you. BH: No problem. Always good to see y’all.



Project Camelot: John Lear Tells All -Transcript
Las Vegas, Nevada, April 2008
--John Lear: Absolutely would be probably what they’re going to do. ...They’re going to put a hologram and say, oh, we’re being attacked, you know, by aliens, ah, we’ve made a deal with the ambassador. And he says that they feel that Earth is a threat and that - but if you all take all, any, weapons you have and turn them in, that that they’ll give us a second chance... J: I would take them and freeze them in a position twenty miles out at 7,000 feet, at 560 mph, put them in the seat, say, you know, and then give them two minutes of looking at the horizons, show them where the World Trade Center is, and ah say, I’m about to release you and when I do, ah, you’ll have a minute and fifty seconds to hit dead center. It’s, it’s impossible. At the height of my career, as proficient as I was in every kind of airplane, there’s no way I could have done that, I mean, it’s just too complex. J: It’s the same thing with 2012. It’s just going to be a year like every other year. We’re going to have, to continue to have these wars. We will probably have a nuclear war, you know, but things are just, you know, going to go along fine. Kerry Cassidy: And I even have a hunch that you might have been part of MJ-12, at one point... J: It was December 6th, of 1988. Bob comes, sits down, and [pauses] he says: “I saw a disk today,” and I’m writing out checks there, you know, and I’m not paying attention and I say “WHAT?” He says “I saw a disk today”, and I, “A disk, theirs or ours?” And he says, “theirs”. I said, “You went to Groom Lake?” And he said “Yeah.” And I said, “What are you doing HERE?” I said. “Obviously they’re going to follow you. Why don’t you just, you know, work there for a while and then come and tell us what happened? And he says, “Because I’ve seen you take so much crap, over the past six months about this. I’m telling you its real, I saw it, I touched it.” J: I’m looking at him, saying, “What, what, what?” He said, “John, you will never know what it’s like to see your first alien.” I said, “You saw one, you saw one?” “Yup”. I said, “It couldn’t have been a doll? It couldn’t a been...” “No! It was one”. And, you know, these days you ask him that question he says, “Well, I don’t know, coulda been a doll. They were doing all this weird stuff.” But that night, that’s exactly what he said. J: You know the deal, the way security like that works, is, when they give you a clearance and when you’re deep inside like that, they tell you: “Look, John, we’ve given you this clearance and, of course, we expect you to keep it secret. But we know every once

...now some of you may be asking why so many airlines collapsed that I worked for and why I got fired so many times. My excuse is simple. I am not the brightest crayon in the box, I am extremely lazy, I have a smart mouth and a real poor fucking attitude. John Lear Yes, he's incorrigible and fun loving, with a great sense of humor that has served him well over these many years. Our 2006 interview with John Lear (see below) remains one of our favorites. When we met again with him recently, with considerably more time at our disposal than we had two years ago, John piled his studio table high with books, diagrams and research papers and sat down to tell us "everything he knew". With special emphasis on the Bob Lazar saga - as only John can tell it - we cover the inconsistencies in the 911 theories and why as a world renowned pilot he is uniquely qualified to judge just what kind of planes, if any, hit the World Trade Center (answer, none: John explains why they were holograms); why the moon's gravity may be as much as 64% that of the Earth's, and could retain a very thin atmosphere; how Ben Rich, the former Director of the Lockheed Skunk Works, was a Mossad agent; the location of the "new Area 51", called Sandia, deep within the Nevada desert; what really happened at Above Top Secret, an internet forum where he was attacked and which he has subsequently left... and much more. There's nothing here about 2012 or 'Planet X' - both of which John dismisses - but we think you will be entertained and fascinated by the reported detailed experiences and opinions of someone who deserves to be respected and admired for his courage, character, and maverick commitment to revealing what he believes is the truth.


in a while, you may accidentally mention something at a party. You may have had too much to drink - and you think it would be interesting to talk about this - and we just want you to know that, you know, we don’t really care. We won’t hurt you. But, we will kill your wife, your children, your mom, your dad, your parakeet, your dog...” shuttles do and then, pretty soon, you know, I’m gone. And the mechanics of exactly why I’m gone is Jeff Ritzmann and David Biedne, were two of the main Meier debunkers. Now, the Meier story is true. There’s no doubt about it. K: Oh yeah, absolutely. J: He took pictures, he went on rides. I don’t care whether you say that, you know, “There were pictures of dinosaurs,” or “The lady came out of Sears Magazine.” That’s all contamination. The fact is, it was true. And so, I really don’t have time to support the Meier thing, other than, in the thread, I would come up every once in a while and say, “Hey look, you know, I’m busy with other things. If I had time, you know, I’d tell you exactly how the Meier thing happened and why I believe it, but all I want to tell you is: the Meier case is true and John Lear believes it’s true, and that’s the bottom line there”. And I’m telling you, I would get hit SO hard on ATS... pages and pages of people knocking me, particularly Jeff Ritzmann and David Biedne. So one day, I got a list of everything, all the insults they made of me, and there were sixteen of them. And I put them, you know, at the end; I said, “You know it’s funny that any other thread, people would be taken to task for insulting another person. But apparently, on the Billy Meier thread it’s okay to insult John Lear.” And I put these sixteen things. Well that was on a Sunday evening. Monday morning I wake up, go to log on, and here’s Skeptic Overlord... what’s his name, Bill... Bill Ryan: Bill Irvine? J: But I’d first like to say...I can’t believe it’s been two years since we did this - it seems like only about six months. But first of all, let’s talk about what happened at ATS. What do you know about it? K: Okay, I know you, you’ve been banned. That’s the extent of it, and we don’t actually know why. What we know about it is that, or what we think we know is that it’s a CIA front and managed by the CIA, so if you’ve been banned, it might be that you’re getting too hot. J: That’s what I think, and when I first joined ATS, maybe three years ago, I thought, you know what, this is just a collection point for what people think is going on. So that THEY KNOW what the general public thinks is going on and they have a bunch of debunkers there that are, you know, paid to go in there and somebody talks about something and they say “oh, no, no, here’s what really going on.” You know... K: Right... J: ...so they generally just influence public thought. But then, I started to throw some, you know, interesting stuff in there and they didn’t say anything, so I thought, well maybe it’s ok. K: [Chuckles] J: So, starting about four months ago, I started throwing some really secret stuff in there, which I’ll tell you later, and it has to do with Navy submarines. It has to do with what the space J: Bill Irvine. B: Mark Allen is the other one. J: Says, you know, we’ve post-banned you here until you can prove that what you said that Ritzmann and Biedne posted, was true. We’ve had our best moderators and they can’t find a single quote that was true. So all we need is your help. And I’m thinking, “Holy smokes, I just, you know, got all that, copied all that yesterday”. So, I started to worry, because it never even occurred to me to go back and check to see if it was still there. K: Wow. J: I just assumed, if Bill Irvine said it wasn’t there, and his moderators said it wasn’t there, then it wasn’t there. And so, what I thought was one of the moderators was in on it and it’s gone. And the only hope I have of recovering it, is going into the archives. So that was like about eight in the morning, and the whole day long, here’s Bill Irvine coming back, every two hours, “John, you know, we can’t find any of this. We need your help.” You know, with a few little minor digs in it. So I’m waiting for Ron Schmidt to get off work at six, so he can show me how to go into the archives. So, finally, just before I went over to Ron Schmidt’s that Monday about five o’clock I

Start of interview Kerry Cassidy: Hi, I’m Kerry Cassidy and this is Project Camelot and we're very happy to be returning to see John Lear, and do a retake and a new interview, to get...he’s going to tell all, basically. Is that right, John? John Lear: Yeah. K: You’re going to absolutely charm us and, and dazzle us with new information. J: I’m going to tell what I know up to this point. K: Okay. J: And I’m not saying it’s absolutely ironclad - what’s really going on - but it’s what I think is going on. K: Great.


said, “You know, I’m just going to take a look and be SURE that it’s not there” and I found every single quote still there. So I laboriously took the time to copy every one, and paste it on this one piece of paper exactly where it was, send it to Bill Irvine, and he sends me back an e-mail says: “Jeff admitted it, it’s a done deal.” K: So, in other words, the moderators were kind of like in collusion with this guy, Jeff.... J: No, no... it turns out that none of them were colluding. K: They didn’t know? J: It turns out that everything was still there. But Irvine said all his guys couldn’t find those quotes. K: But, but that’s what I’m saying. If they couldn’t find the quotes, then they suddenly found them, then in a certain sense it sounds like they’re working with Jeff. J: That could be. Anyway, Bill said, “If we all agree to keep this between us.” I said, “No, I don’t agree to keep that between us. I want everyone to know EXACTLY what happened here. You know, you say this is Above Top Secret and we’re trying to get all this information. Why should this little feud, in which you’ve caused me an entire day of grief, and really...” I told Bill, I said, “I’ve been posting here for two years. I spend eight to sixteen hours answering questions on ATS. And you accuse me of falsifying information? I mean that’s INSANE”. So I wouldn’t agree not to shut up and they, they didn’t let me on so.... K: So it sounds like they’re playing games. J: Yes. So they had a lot of people ask about John Lear, and finally on Sunday, the following Sunday, they let me on just long enough I could get in my two cents worth and then I was banned forever. It was obvious that ATS has been a clearing house. They wanted the information that the public got, to see if they could influence that. They weren’t interested in having good stuff come out there... K: Right. J: ...that the public could say. And I’m telling ya, I was telling some good stuff and I was getting away with it! And it was, really... K: Well, let’s get that good stuff on here today. B: Bill? Mark? J: ...it was really surprising. K: And we’ll get around that. J: They were letting me get away with this stuff. And ah, because, you know, I know what’s going on. And so then it J: No, the other one, Mark, and he posted them. For the first week people were saying, “Well I don’t see anything, you know, John, and I don’t see what you see there, you know, and everything.” And then this guy called Zorgon started to see the stuff. And so I would lead him to it and I didn’t lead him anywhere, you know. I rapidly came to a halt. So now we’ve talked to several people at ATS and they said “nobody gets to put anymore good stuff on, you know, it’s got to be backed up a hundred percent or they’re banned and their post is deleted”. J: I think the crowning blow is when they rolled in Jim Oberg. And Jim Oberg has been NASA’s front man, you know, for thirty years. He knows everything about everything and, when we got into a debate on the neutral point - which I’ll discuss later - which absolutely proves that there’s 64% gravity on the moon. I got Jim Oberg and I’ll read you the exact thing he came back with. You know, he was stuck. There was nothing more for him to say. He was done for and that’s when things started to go downhill, and I’ll read you the exact thing Jim Oberg said. K: So John, what’s going to be your approach at this point that you’re banned? Because, in a way, that was the kind of a place where you could connect with the public. Are you going to join another... J: I post on four little forums, and anybody that calls and asks, I give them these forums. And it’s no big deal, there’s like 300 on one and 80 on another. And my bag is not reaching a lot of people; it’s reaching the very few that are interested in what’s going on. And that’s not a threat to the government, really. I don’t think. K: [Laughs] Okay, well, there are plenty people that visit forums that don’t log on. So, so it’s good news to know that you’re actually still out there and still posting. J: Yeah, the stuff that we’re going to talk about today is the stuff that’s current on these forums. One is Open Minds; and the other is American Conspiracy; the other is Fantastic Forum; and I think there’s one other. And then I have a website with Ron Schmidt that’s called thelivingmoon.com and I try and keep all the stuff that we find out on there. K: Okay. B: Thelivingmoon.com is an excellent website. I want to say this for the record. There are not that many websites that we at Project Camelot would be willing to recommend, but that’s a good one. J: Okay, let me... B: A very, very good one. J: ...tell you about the origin of thelivingmoon.com was. When I posted the original HUGE megabyte pictures of the moon on ATS; in other words, I sent them by DVD to... what’s his name there?


didn’t say, “Well here it is” - because you can’t do that. You got to let them find it. And Zorgon started coming up with the stuff. And THEN, he started finding more than I did and I said, you know, we got to meet and I’m thinking “Holy shit, this guy lives in New Jersey, you know, and I’m going to have to get back there”. It turns out, you know, he lives a couple miles down the street! K: Oh my God, that’s great... J: [Laughing.] So he comes up here, you know, we start trading information. And he already had a website, you know, having to do with medieval stuff, so we just made www.thelivingmoon.com a part of that. And the information just started to come in from all kinds of sources. K: Right, yeah. J: Sources, I had no idea how they got the stuff. B: Yeah, yeah. J: But a lot of stuff on the Russian black ships, and it just keeps pouring in... B: It’s a good site. It’s a good site. J: 10% of the stuff is posted on there just because we don’t have the time, you know, we’d like to have a secretary, but both of us are broke you know, so we don’t have, you know, we can’t put it ALL on there. So we put the most interesting stuff on there, and Ron works down at the convention center. He’s the guy that sets things up and takes things down. But he comes.... K: Well, that’s fabulous! J: ...he comes home and every once in awhile we get together, you know, like once a week, and talk about what we’re going to focus on but that’s, that’s it. B: Let me share this e-mail with you, John. This is from somebody called Gary Dix, who used to work very closely with Simon, Mark and Bill. In the early days of ATS and, after a major disagreement, he quit. He’s based in New Zealand. And he sent me a long e-mail. J: And the date? J: Right. B: A couple of years ago. J: Yeah. B: And I’ll just read one of the pertinent paragraphs: “As they become more negative over a topic, they begin to drive the threads using sockpuppets, fake member names, as they don’t want to be seen to be guiding directions in the threads as mods and admin. This is the STYLE of mods and admin in the future using fake accounts to allow them to freely post their ideas.” K: ...and everything is going in that direction – basically, the direction of disclosure and truth. So, on that note, let’s kind of dive in here. We know you’ve got a lot of stuff to cover today, so where would you like to go first? J: First we’re going to cover the Nibiru scam, Planet X. K: Okay. J: It is not there. It is not going to cause a problem in 2012. It’s a scam. I see it working from every different direction. It’s just a We got this on record from a guy on the inside, okay? Now, of course, they’ll deny it. But if you’ve got someone whose user name is “Skeptic Overlord”, what does that tell us? J: Yeah. B: You know, I mean, the truth is in plain sight. ATS is a skeptical site. ATS is a debunker’s site and so what do you debunkers do? It’s this phrase, which you know: you keep your friends close and your enemies closer. J: Yeah. B: So you’re an enemy of anyone who wants the truth really out. So they bring you in really close with the intention of controlling public opinion about you. J: Right. B: It nearly worked, but not quite. J: [Laughs] B: Because they made the mistake of calling John Lear a liar. And John Lear may be all kinds of things but John Lear’s not a liar, and everybody knows that, who knows anything about John Lear. J: But what are the chances of, you know, me posting those pictures on ATS, you know, and the ONE GUY who starts seeing the good stuff, lives, you know, 3 or 4 miles down the road. I mean it’s really, really great. K: It’s freaky. J: But that’s how synchronicity works. K: Absolutely. J: And, and every DAY, I see an example of synchronicity. K: Well, that means you’re really plugged in to what’s going on here, and that you’re getting some unseen help, basically. I mean synchronicity is just being in synch with the universe in a major way...


PLOT to keep us, you know, in a state of anxiety. Everything’s going to go along just as normal. The world isn’t going to disintegrate. There’s going to be no planet that comes and shakes everything up. Everything’s going to go along just fine. K: Ok, are you saying this in general about 2012? J: Yes. K: Or are you saying this... J: Specifically about Planet X.... K: Planet X... J: I know you do, I know you do and that’s why... J: ...or Nibiru, or whatever you want to call it, AND 2012. 2012 is like... K: It’s just a year. J: Is what? K: Is it just a year, in your opinion? J: Yeah, it’s just like, what did we call this... Y2K? You know, we all got to get generators and food and everything, and everything was going to collapse. The same thing with 2012. It’s just going to be a year like every other year. We’re going to have, to continue to have these wars. We will probably have a nuclear war, you know, but things are just, you know, going to go along fine. There’s going to be no absolutely... K: Where do you get your information? Are you just coming to this conclusion in your own head by putting two and two together, or do you have an inside source that’s telling you stuff? J: No inside scoop. I have never had an inside scoop. Most all of my information, you know, I’ve come out with it myself and its more fun like that. Because people say “Where do you... who told you that gravity on the moon was 64% and there’s an atmosphere”? Well, there’s a lot of books out there but, basically, I’m the guy that came out and said “Yup, there’s gravity on the moon and there’s an atmosphere on the moon”. As far as... K: Well, why, why should we believe that you would know this? I mean is it because you were a pilot, because you’re trained in a certain way? Where is your trail coming from? J: Well, as far as the gravity on the moon, we’re going to talk about Bullialdus-Newton law of inverse-square. And we’re going to talk about how usually NASA convinces you, using Newton’s gravitational law, which assumes the mass of the earth and the moon - that’s not what you want to use. You want to use NewtonBullialdus or Bullialdus-Newton law of inverse-square, because you don’t have to CARE what the mass is. All you need to know is what the distance is, and where the neutral point is. If we know where the neutral point is and the size of the planets, we can figure out what the gravity is. K: ...also some secret evidence in this regard now, were certainly in question about this. We’ve not reached a conclusion ourselves. However, first of all, there’s the South Pole Telescope. There’s also the interest of the Vatican and the Jesuit footage that came out, you know, with [Cristoforo] Barbato. Maybe you’ve seen the footage, maybe you haven’t. Maybe you can give us some background on why you think that footage is not accurate, or not real. And then there’s also the heating of the planets. How do you account for the heating of the planets and the activity on the sun, which is going to reach a peak in 2012 as being meaningless? J: Are you talking about global warming? K: But it’s not global, and David Wilcock and Richard Hoagland have gone through planet by planet, and shown you how there’s increased activity all the way down, and there’s actually heating up. B: There’s information in the public domain that every planet in the solar system is heating up. It seems to be connected with solar cycle 24. And then some people say that there’s something else that’s driving this. J: I wouldn’t even pay any attention to it. K: [Laughs] J: Everybody gets to believe what they want. In 2012 you could look back and say John Lear, on April 2nd 2008 said it was all bullshit, and if it wasn’t, you know, I was wrong, but I think it’s a total scam. K: I’m sure you’ve rubbed shoulders with the Intel community. You know that your office is bugged - you’ve demonstrated that to us. There’s a reason why they bug you. I mean, first of all, you know, you’re a pilot from way back, you’re incredibly respected, you have a background military, slightly, you know. And I even have a hunch you might have been part of MJ-12 at one point. J: [Laughs] K: [Laughs] Okay, so you’ve known all the insiders. You know... tell me why it is that you’re saying you have no inside sources suddenly. I mean, you know, Bob Lazar... Now, we know what the neutral point is because: 1) Wernher von Braun told us; 2) the crew of Apollo 17 told us; and 3) one of the other Apollo missions told us. And it’s about 38,000 or 39,000 miles and, if you work out the law of inverse-square, it comes out to be that the moon is 64% gravity of the Earth. That’s all there is to it. And you don’t have to assume mass. And as far as Planet X and Nibiru, that’s based on 65 years of listening to bullshit, you know, about what’s coming on and what disaster’s coming next. It’s just you know, I know that there’s nothing going to be happening. K: Okay, let me ask you because we have several witnesses that are giving us evidence...


J: Let me correct that. Let me correct that. I had three inside sources. One was Jimmy Doolittle - and he’s the one that told my Mom MJ-12 existed. That story is important because, when I was first getting into all this in 1987, and Shandera and Moore came out with the supposed Eisenhower briefing, and it talked about Majestic 12. I needed to know, is this true? And the only person that I knew that would have known beyond a shadow of a doubt, was Jimmy Doolittle. K: Okay, who’s Jimmy Doolittle? J: General Jimmy Doolittle, that’s him behind you taking off to bomb Tokyo. Taking off from the Hornet, incidentally, the same aircraft carrier that picked up Apollo. And that letter that you see is when I had my accidental airplane crash in Geneva, Switzerland, in 1961 and nearly killed myself. He was the only one to take the time to write me a letter and say, “John, we all make mistakes, I’ve made many, plenty of them, but it’s important that we profit, it’s only important that we profit by our mistakes”. And he took the time to write that whole letter so, I have it framed with him taking off on the Hornet to bomb Tokyo. General Jimmy Doolittle was an incredible General - very respected, and he was involved with MJ-12 up to his ears. He was NOT a part of MJ-12, but he was around our house in Santa Monica, 222 14th Street. He lived down on Third Street with his wife, Josephine, and they were in our house JUST LIKE Vandenberg, just like Twining - all those MJ-12 guys were around our house. But, you know, I didn’t know that at that time and my father never said much about UFOs other than that he believed them. And I never found out any other stuff until like I got into this stuff in 1985, ‘86 and Doolittle’s name kept coming up, time after time after time. Now, I knew him and I have... there’s autographed pictures all around this den of Jimmy that I’d asked for. And I saw him at various... like SETP, which is Society of Experimental Test Pilots, and to say hello and everything, but I didn’t really know him that well. But I knew that my Mom knew him and she was as close to Jimmy Doolittle as anybody in her life, Jimmy and Jo. Now, his wife passed away in the 1980s sometime and he was retired, lived in Carmel, California, and I KNEW that. And I also knew that my Mom talked to him every once in a while. So I knew that the only way I would have of determining whether Majestic 12 was true was to get her to ask him. And it took about six months to get it together, because she’s always hesitant, you know, to do stuff like that. But I finally got her to do it. And she called up and she said, “Jimmy, how’re you doing and dadadada, and by the way, John’s interested in this stuff, and I just want to know, was Majestic 12 real”? And he said “Yes, Moya, but I can’t say anything about it”. That for me was, you know, the beginning of everything - because, if Majestic 12 is real, it’s a possibility the briefing papers are real and, if they were real, then everything else was real. K: Right, because why would you put together something like MJ-12 under Truman, to investigate or manage the UFO story unless there was, you know, if there was no UFO story, right? There’s got to be a UFO if you’re going to put together a group. J: Right. I’d have to say that was my first impression. K: So now tell me something. You must know the history to some degree. I mean you’ve been around a long time, you’ve seen them in operation. You know, you know, you must have MET some of the insiders and I have to say that I think they would have recruited you. Am I wrong? J: No, I... K: You never got an offer? J: No. I just, you know, I was a pilot. I didn’t know ANYTHING, you know, until 1984 when I, somebody... K: But you know a lot now. J: Yeah. K: Look at this office, it’s incredible. J: Yeah. You know, up till 1984, my sole interest was SR-71, F19, Stealth Fighter... K: Okay. J: ...stuff like that. As a matter of fact, you can go on the internet: John Andrews, who was Vice President of Testors, and eventually made the ‘Sport Model’. K: Right. J: You know he and I had letters going back and forth. He’d say, “Hey, you ought to look into this flying saucer deal.” And I’d say, “No, its bullshit, you know I don’t need to waste my time”. That letter’s on the Internet. You know my interest didn’t start till in 1985, I think. We had a... I used to run the reunion for all the Southeast Asia pilots that, you know, that worked for CIA and I’d run the reunion here in Las Vegas, called “China Post 1”. And we’d have it every two years and ONE of these years, and I think it was 1985, a friend of mine, whose name was Greg Wilson, he was a Raven. The Raven were the Air Force guys they’d take out of the Air Force, sheep dip them, to give them civilian ID. They’d come into Laos and they’d fly, you know, the 01s and they were the Ravens and they’d go out on the PDJ and all around and do all kinds of amazing things. Anyway, he attended the reunion. His name is Greg Wilson and he got talking to him, “Hey, where-all ya been”? And he said, “Well, you know, here and there, still flying A-10s. I spent a tour at Bentwaters”. I said, “Bentwaters”? K: [Chuckles] J: “That was the place, supposedly, in 1980, that the flying saucer landed”. He says, “No John, not supposedly - it did”. He said, “I didn’t get to see it because I was confined to quarters, but I know the guys who did”. I said, “What”? I said, “You’re telling me this stuff is real”? He said, “Oh, yeah”.


So here’s a guy that I flew with in Southeast Asia, hadn’t seen for years, I give him this outrageous question about Bentwaters. He says, “Yeah, yeah, I was confined. I didn’t see it, but I know the guys who did”. So that’s what piqued my interest and that’s 1985, you know? So, you know... K: So, you’ve got more. You’ve got insiders coming to you, you’ve got insiders that are friends. J: I wouldn’t say he was an insider; an insider like is Bob Lazar... K: Right. J: ...and the only other insider, the real insider, I mean the guy, and it’s been like, you know, if you guys were here two years ago, that’s probably been like five or six years ago. I can’t remember when I met. Oh, I know when it was, yeah, it’s been a long time ago. It’s been almost twenty years, Used to live up in Idaho. He was retired. He told friends of mine a lot more than he told me, but, just before he died, he came down to Vegas and more or less said, what do you want to know? And I didn’t even know what to ask! K: And his name is? K: Can you just tell me one thing? Have YOU been threatened? J: Ah... J: Never, never the slightest bit. K: Are you at liberty to tell us? J: No. Because, you know, the deal. The way security like that works is, when they give you a clearance and when you’re deep inside like that, they tell you “Look, John, we’ve given you this clearance and, of course, we expect you to keep it secret. But we know every once in a while, you may accidentally mention something at a party; you may have had too much to drink; and you think it would be interesting to talk about this, and we just want you to know that we don’t really care. We won’t hurt you. But we will kill your wife, your children, your mom, your dad, your parakeet, your dog, you know, everybody else, but you’ll be okay”. So that’s why people don’t talk. And then people say, “He’s on his deathbed, why wouldn’t he talk”? That’s why. It’s because they make it clear - not him that’s going to get hurt, it’s every person in his family and then starting with his best friend. Towards the end of his life, I saw him three times. I drove to Idaho to see him twice and once back here and, when I was in Idaho, he didn’t tell me all that much, but he did tell me one interesting thing that NEVER made sense - until THIS year when I find out. The information I’m getting is just growing exponentially. Every time I get someplace, you know, and then I’m led to someplace else and it just... so much information coming in. Anyway, what he told me was that he worked on a project, a mining machine for the moon, and this thing was being built in the South somewhere. He didn’t tell me where, but I was imagining Arkansas or Alabama, someplace like that. K: Okay, alright. Well, so, either you’ve never crossed the line, you’ve never revealed anything that you weren’t supposed to, or you don’t know enough. Is that right? B: Or you’re doing someone a favor. J: OR, somebody’s protecting me. K: Okay, so the last... J: But you are exactly right, either I’m talking through my hat and I don’t have the REAL information... K: Or... J: ...or somebody’s protecting me. K: Do you know who? J: Oh, I didn’t say which one was true. K: I understand. J: I mean, you know, I think a lot of this stuff is true, but how would I know? I’ve never been to the moon. I’d like to go. K: Uh huh. J: If I go and somebody can arrange a ride... like Bob Lazar, he says he’s going to have his space suit on while we’re standing in He said, “John, this thing was so big”, he said, “that when I finished it”, he said, “I have a private license. I rented an airplane just to go up and fly around to see how mammoth this thing was”. And I said, “Well, can you give me an idea”? He says, “Acres”. I said “Wow”! I said, “How’d they get it to the moon”? And, he said “I don’t know”. [laughs] And that’s how projects like that work. He doesn’t have a need to know how they got it to the moon, his job was to build it, you know, and they’re not going to TELL him any of that. That’s how compartmentalization works. You know, that’s one... B: We’ve been told by somebody, he told us that Project Lunex and Horizon were never canceled and just went black. J: Absolutely, and Project Horizon is on our website, right? B: Yes. J: Yeah. The only thing we had. There’s, we got four of the phases of Project Horizon, except one. I think its number two that we need. So I’ll show you that, and show you what we’re still looking for.


the air lock there. And when it comes up like that he says, you know, “at least I’m going to have some air and I’ll watch you suffocate”. And I said no, no, I’ll be able to breathe normally. Now, when people go to the moon, it takes them two weeks of decompression before they can actually go out and spend some time there. The fact is you can go right there and breathe but, you know, you’ll get altitude sickness. Just like if you go to climb Everest, you can go right up there, you’ll probably live but, you know, you’ll hurt pretty bad. That’s why they go to the different camps as they go up, is to get acclimatized and the same thing to the moon. It takes about two weeks. K: Okay. So tell us how the moon got where it is, because, you know that the moon is a satellite, that’s actually a fake... J: Right. It was. It’s a spaceship that was towed into orbit. I would say thirty to forty thousand years ago. Now the reason I say thirty to forty thousand years ago, is because it’s still within the history of man. [Immanuel] Velikovsky talks about the different proselynes and the different civilizations, that talked about the time when there was NO moon and then, when there were two moons and now we have one moon. This guy here, Norm Bergrun wrote the The Ringmakers of Saturn. It’s an EXCELLENT book. Norm Bergrun is VERY qualified; was for forty years a scientific part of both NACA and also Lockheed; retired from Lockheed, I think, about fifteen years ago. No more than that... K: What’s NACA? J: Who builds them? J: Ah, National Aeronautics, the predecessor to NASA. K: Yeah. K: Oh, really. J: We don’t know who builds them. But anyway... J: National Advisory Commission for Aeronautics. K: Us? K: I see, okay. J: No, no. We couldn’t build anything like that. We have some amazing stuff, but, we couldn’t do that. K: Okay. J: No, this is somebody else. But what the interesting part in the book and the reason why we’re getting here is because, at the end of this book, he starts talking about the moon and how the moon was towed into orbit. Because the people that towed, that, that operate that stuff and Saturn and also Iapetus, towed the moon into orbit - and he goes into here, explains exactly why he believes the moon WAS towed into orbit, and how it was and how they grabbed on to the Mare Orienel. K: Who are you saying towed the moon into... J: We don’t know. Whoever. K: ...into place. So he doesn’t conjecture on who... J: They were the predecessor to NASA. K: Okay. J: But when he retired, he somehow got some photos, some really good negatives of Voyager, which went by Saturn. And he set up a little lab in his house, and he started looking these and he ended up writing Ringmakers of Saturn. And what he shows you here is what he found in the rings of Saturn: three vehicles - space ships - the biggest of which is 31,196 miles long and 2,422 miles in diameter. We’re talking about a fairly large spaceship there. Now Norm Bergrun, when he wrote this book at the beginning - it’s very good - he says “Now look, I’m going to be talking about some stuff that is very interesting, but you can’t skip a page, you can’t skip a word that you don’t know; you have to go from the beginning to end or you won’t understand what I’m saying.” And I did go from beginning to end. Now since... K: Okay, but when was this written? J: Ah, this would be 1986. K: Ok, so it’s not that old. J: No and I go see Norm... K: And it’s talking about a huge spaceship. Who built the spaceship?


J: No. K: ...you know, on what alien race, for example. J: No. K: I mean obviously, it’s an alien race. Henry Deacon, our secret source, has also substantiated that. The moon was towed into orbit... but have you got an idea what alien race was responsible for that? J: No, absolutely not. K: None? J: What’s interesting here, another interesting thing, I see Norm every year because when I go do the UFO Expo West, which is the only one I do. He lives in Los Altos Hills. And he’s writing about Iapetus, and Iapetus is probably a spaceship too. K: Okay. K: So we’ve got to get in touch with this guy. J: You better, because he’s on his way out. I saw him last September, he was not well, he was finishing up the book on Iapetus. But he wasn’t working on it every day... K: Okay, was he a scientist? J: Yes. K: Okay, but did he, who did he work for? I mean, in other words, he’s government... J: Give me a second here. K: He’s in NACA, I understand that, but in a certain level, he’s revealing secret information. J: No. As what? K: Well, I’m just asking you. Isn’t this, wouldn’t this be secret? J: No. No. Thermodynamicist, Douglas Aircraft 1934-44 Aero Research Scientist, NACA/Ames Laboratory 1944-1956 Lockheed Missile and Space Company, Van Uys, Supervisor Flight Test 1956-68 Manager, Flight Test Analysis, 1958-1962 Manager Test Plans and Direction 1962-63 Manager Re-entry Test Operations, 1966... K: Okay, but... J: There’s all this stuff, how qualified this guy is... K: Right. And the REASON that had to keep it secret is because if they, if the public were allowed to know there was a fourth guy in there, then they would not, want to know who he was. And there was no possible way that NASA could ever reveal that there was another guy in there, ‘cause they would have to reveal the secret space program. And the secret space program started in 1959 and they’re the ones who went to the moon in 1962. They went to Mars in 1966. All, everything we know is a cover for the secret space program. K: Oh, yeah. J: Anyway, when, when I give a lecture, if I have two hours, I always give an hour, and then let the public talk to me for an hour, because I’m going to learn more from then than they are going to from me. And one of Chaffey’s relatives got up and said, “John, you’re right, we’ve always known this, there was a fourth man, but we didn’t know who it was.” Now, I know who the name is, but I keep it to myself because... J: Oh, right. J: ...if somebody comes to me, you know and says, “I know who it is”. I know who it is. And it’s really interesting because his son is a current shuttle astronaut. K: Oh, really. J: Yeah. So anyway, I go to see Norm two years ago, and in talking with him I said: “By the way, the electromagnetic vehicle that towed the moon into orbit, where is it now”? And he said, “I think it’s on the back side of the moon”. So when I got hooked up with Ron Schmidt, we started collecting photos on the back side of the moon and we found it. It’s in the crater Tsiolkovsky. And the story of how we did it was so interesting and how NASA covered it up. There’s like six J: This is... K: Why are they letting him talk? J: Why? K: Why are they letting him do this? I mean, in other words. J: What’s he saying? There’s a space ship that’s, that’s 31 miles long in the rings of Saturn? K: So plausible deniability is.... J: Sure, who’s going to believe that? K: Okay, okay, alright. So that’s... J: So anyway, two years ago, at the UFO Expo West, I mean, that was SO interesting because number one, one of my lectures of Apollo 1, and the four people that were in it and there was Grissom, White and Chaffey and then there was a fourth guy and he was part of the secret astronaut corps.


different photos of Tsiolkovsky, as they tried to airbrush this electromagnetic vehicle out if the picture by making it an island. And ah, but we got them. And we got two really good photos. One was discovered by a lady who works for us in Florida, and she discovered it on a thumbnail of Tsiolkovsky. And what happened, was when NASA was advertising this particular photo, you know, they airbrushed the big one, but, when they had the thumbnail, somebody looked at that and said, “Hey, I’m not going to take the time to enlarge that, take the vehicle out and put it down - nobody’ll notice it anyway.” But we noticed it, and it’s great, and that’s where we got the photo of the EMV on the far side. And then, Apollo 15 flew over it, and they got some movies of it, and it’s just a quick shot but it’s really interesting. K: The secret astronaut who was killed, his son is a shuttle astronaut. J: Right. K: Okay, and this is interesting because it sort of shows how they bring someone into the fold who might have something to tell the world at a later date. J: Right. B: We’re in touch with Clark, but we haven’t met him. K: But if he’s a shuttle astronaut, he’s not going to talk. J: Right. K: Right, he’s in the fold. J: Right. Same thing with Grissom’s son. K: Oh, really. J: He’s in the program. K: See this would be an interesting investigative angle, would be, what about all the sons and daughters of the astronauts? Do they all work for the company? J: Yeah, it would be. Now Gus Grissom - when the fire started, you know, every single story you read will say that there were like three words were spoken. Chaffey said, “Fire!” Somebody said “It’s getting hot in here”, but in every single story, Grissom doesn’t say anything. Now, as you know, Grissom was the most highly critical and vociferous astronaut in that program. He came out before they were supposed to go up, he said, “There are sixty major things with this wrong - how can we possibly be flying this”? He’s the one that hung the lemon over the Apollo. And NASA hated him. Now I’ve been told by guys I consider insiders - and there’s another one, call him Number Four - that NASA didn’t specifically kill those guys, but they let it happen. They knew it was going to happen and they just let it happen. J: Clark’s a great guy. I’ve known him since 1990. We’ve never met, but we’ve always talked on the phone. I’ve always tried to get his notes. He has his book ready. He has three books. He doesn’t want to publish one of them - he wants to publish all three. I don’t blame him. He knows a lot of stuff. He knows much more than I’m telling you. K: Do you think that he’s actually going to get his books published - are they going to let them out there? J: No way! Not a chance in hell. K: [Laughs] Okay. J: The only thing... I’d like to get them, but, you know, Clark is so pissed and I don’t know what happened, but I know he is THE insider, the insider of NASA. There’s nobody in the position that could come out and say more than Clark. I mean, he was there from the beginning. K: Okay. B: They’ve done just about everything but kill him, haven’t they? He hasn’t got a penny. J: Right. And I don’t know why they haven’t killed him. K: Oh right. Yeah, absolutely. K: But why? J: Well, there were a number of reasons: 1) They needed more time. They needed to get the program back on schedule and the only way they could do that was to have a horrendous accident. And, they wanted to get rid of Grissom. And so the New York Times - and I forget the guy - broke the story the next day was that he talked to NASA, and they said that the tape was gruesome of the last few minutes. And of course we’ve all heard that Grissom didn’t say anything. We all know what he said. He was saying, you know, “You bastards, you’ve... K: Oh my God. J: ...YOU’VE KILLED US ALL. I KNEW THIS WAS COMING TO THIS. I HOPE YOU ALL WATCH US DIE.” And just, really bad. So I’m sure that’s what happened and I saw another quote just yesterday and I can’t remember what it was, about how gruesome the tape was. K: Wow. B: We’d like to ask you if Clark McClelland has got something to say about this as well. J: Yeah.


J: Anyway, one more thing I’m going to tell you about Norm, because we’re going to get into it later. I told Norm the last time, this is last year I went to the UFO Expo and boy, I’ll tell ya, I got some good information. But anyway, I went to see Norm and he’s not well and he’s had several surgeries and I expect to hear any day that he’s passed away. He’s 87, and I said, “Norm, I’m thinking that the airplanes that crashed into the World Trade Center were holograms”. And he said, “John, you’re probably right, and here’s why.” He said, “Just before I retired I was driving down on the Bay Shore Freeway to Sunnyvale”. and he said, “I had a friend in the right seat of the car”. And he says, “Like, it was about 8 o’clock in the morning, maybe 8:15”. He said, “we’re driving south and we saw this shadow and we looked up, and here...” he says, “It wasn’t a 747, but it was a HUGE four-engined airplane, it wasn’t 200 feet above us”. And he said, “We looked out at, looked at this thing” he said “of course we’re, you know, 20 miles from San Jose, you know, and 30 miles from San Francisco. There’s no possible way an airplane could, you know, legitimately be flying right there”. K: [Laughs] K: They back-engineered it. J: And he says, “We watched it for about 10 seconds and it went [snaps fingers] just like you turned a light bulb out”. And he said, “So if that was the contemporary hologram, presentation of a hologram” he says, “then you’re right”. And a... K: Oh, that’s very interesting. J: ...holograph, the holographic technology is so far advanced that people just wouldn’t believe it. But the other day, I had a lady that was helping Marilee on a casting program. Actually, she hired Marilee. She’s from New York. She had two degrees from Harvard. She was just a wonderful, smart, receptive lady, and we were talking about holographs and she says, “Well let me tell you”, she said “About five years ago, I was invited with about fifteen other television executives into a private showing in Hollywood. And there was a little auditorium, it wasn’t very big. It could seat like, maybe, thirty people and the presentation was called, ‘The Future of Television’ ”. And she said, “I don’t remember whether Steven Spielberg was there but everyone else was”. And she said it was “brightly lit and there was a stage and a podium on the stage and we’re sitting there, and this guy comes out from behind, and he’s a kind of East German accent, East European accent, white hair, has glasses, and he comes out, and he starts telling us the history of television and how they came up with the first cathode ray tube, and how they did this and how they... and he walks down in front of the stage, walks up one of the aisles, he’s polishing his glasses, walks in front in front of them, walks back up to the stage”. And she says, “It was pretty boring”. She says, “After about twenty minutes, he wraps it up with something ‘and that’s the history of television’ ”. And he puts his glasses on and, [snaps finger] just like a light, goes out”. K: He disappeared? [Laughs] He was a hologram? J: Yeah, and so... So now we’re just talking about [Flight] 175 and Flight 93. Flight 93 allegedly crashed in Shanksville. Anybody who has any J: ...on ATS, when I first went there, one of the things I talked about was that there were no planes on 911. There were no airplanes at Shanksville... K: This is really dynamite stuff. J: There was no airplane at the Pentagon, there was no airplane at the World Trade Center and I’m telling ya, when I started talking about holographs, the dissent, I mean the crush... K: [Laughs] J: ...of guys that were out to kill me, I mean, it was amazing, there was like twenty guys, “you’re nuts”, you know, “this is absolutely... you’re doing a disservice to the 911 movement”, you know, “to find out the truth” you know. You talk about that and nobody’s going to believe it, but the fact was, it was a holograph and it was CGI and... K: Right, so can you take us through that? Take us through why you think that’s true. And how you got, I mean, you’re a pilot, you certainly have a vote in whether those planes had the capacity to hit those buildings, because our Henry Deacon has told us some very interesting things also about those planes. Actually, he thinks they were remote controlled. I don’t know if THAT’S true, but basically that planes don’t have the ability to actually steer in to buildings at that level, I mean, I’m not a pilot so I don’t understand the logistics. But, how did you come around to this? J: Okay, first of all we’re going to talk about... Flight 11 and 77 didn’t exist in the beginning. The Bureau of Transportation Statistics has no record of them taking off, has no, you know, so let’s forget about them because they did not exist. K: Oh wow. J: You know, that was seven years ago. So that’s what television is coming to is, you won’t have a screen... K: Right. J: You’ll just turn it on and it’ll be happening right there. K: It’s right there. That’s great, well that makes sense because the Yellow Book... J: So, the reason I tell you that story... K: I mean they had the yellow book, right? From, what, the crash in 1947? So, and that’s substantiated by Dan Burisch over and over again. So that’s a, that’s a hologram. You know, technology, right? J: So, the reason I tell you that is...


background in accident investigation or any background at all, can’t possibly believe that an airplane crashed. There was no wreckage. It just simply could not happen. K: Okay. J: As far as 175 hitting the South Tower, I just recently put in a call to a Pan American Flight Simulator in Miami to see if I could rent a 767-200, which they have. And what I wanted to do was take six candidates, six candidate pilots. One current and qualified in the 767-200; one maybe qualified, but not current; and then one maybe current in a high speed jet, but not the 767; and then the last three, the same currency as the alleged hijackers, like a couple hours in an Apache, a private license, maybe a commercial, something like that. And what I would do is in the simulator, you can take them up so that New York is just like it is. I mean the buildings are there. I would take them and freeze them in a position 20 miles out at 7,000 feet, at 560 mph, put them in the seat, say, and then give them two minutes of looking at the horizons, show them where the World Trade Center is, and say, “I’m about to release you and when I do, you’ll have a minute and fifty seconds to hit dead center. Now, the World Trade Center is 220 feet wide, you got to hit to the center. Not left or right, right - to the center.” And explain how it goes, and then I would have one camera pointing at the pilot and one camera pointing at what he’s looking at. K: Alright. J: And then say, [snaps fingers] “GO”. And say, “Okay now, show me how easy this is”. You know, ‘cause all the guys on ATS, “Oh, I did that in flight simulator, no problem”, you know. It’s, it’s impossible. At the height of my career, as proficient as I was in every kind of airplane, there’s no way I could have done that. I mean, it’s just too complex. First of all, the airplane can’t fly above 560 pmh. It can’t fly more than 360, which is its Velocity Max Operating. Maybe could fly, maybe, thirty, forty miles an hour faster than that, but at VMO the clacker comes on. The clacker is an FAA required safety device which clacks LOUD: clack-clack-clack, clackclack-clack. And it clacks at a rate and a cycle that irritates the pilot, so that he can’t ignore it. He has to slow down, you know. Now, there’s no possibility a hijacker, first time in the airplane, is not only going to, you know, fly it at 390, 400 mph... K: [Laughs] J: ...but do it with that clacker... K: Right. J: ...and descend and hit that thing center. Can’t happen. No. B: I have a question here, if I may. J: Yeah. Nobody’s going to believe this thing just collapsed, you know, from a little fire, and about 5 o’clock, you know, they said well, let’s go ahead and do it, maybe no one will notice. So they collapsed this forty-seven story building into its footprint, and expect everybody to believe it - and of course they did. K: Okay, so they collapsed it into its footprint... but what did they use? I mean, don’t they have scalar weaponry? Can’t they just hit it? B: We have a credible witness, who says that the planes weren’t piloted, but they were remotely controlled, like unmanned vehicles from thousands of miles away. K: I just said that. B: And he said... Yes, but I’m asking John to comment on that, from the point of view of, this also answers the question raised by the fact that no human pilot could have hit that small target. J: No airplane crashed in the World Trade Center. First of all, remote controlling an airplane that size or any size is very difficult. I don’t believe you could remote control an airplane the size of a 767-200 anyway, particularly to hit dead center of the World Trade Center. But the fact is, there was no wreckage from ANY airplane in the World Trade Center. And by “no wreckage” I mean, nothing was found of any size anywhere around. Now, there was a panel of a fuselage that you see with five window shades, but when each airplane, American Airlines in the North Tower and United Airlines in the South Tower, hit, it was two-fifths of a second while they disappeared in the airplane. So, in two-fifths of a second you’re not going to have a panel about seven feet long drift down and just be lying there in almost perfect condition, unless it was accompanied by Mohammed Atta’s passport. K: [Laughs] J: The only other thing that was found was the engine on Murray Street. And, the engine on Murray Street has been identified as either a CFM-56 - CFM stands for Snecma - OR the CF-6, which was a 767 engine, which was developed out of the CFM-56. But whichever one it was the CF6 or the CFM56, it had to be General Electric and unfortunately, or fortunately, United Airlines used strictly Pratt and Whitney. So that engine you see flying off and that engine they say is from 175, isn’t from 175, because the guys, whose job was to dump it off there you know, and a smoking, smoldering thing, dumped off the wrong engine. There were a lot of things that the perps did that were suspect here. The collapse of building number seven is just absolutely ridiculous. K: Right. J: And the reason they had to do it that way is because, I suspect, the holographic projector, that projected flight 175 and flight 11, somehow became disabled - because Flight 93 was the one that was supposed to crash into building seven and when they couldn’t do it, they had to do things quickly. They could fake 93 crashing in Shanksville and I could imagine these guys, all day long, “What are we going to do?”


J: Yes, we do but, that particular thing was collapsed because it had controlled demolition just like the World Trade Center. K: Right. B: No. I don’t. J: The World Trade Center, what they did with controlled demolition is the FIRST part was to make what we call the Wily Coyote Cutout in the face, like an airplane crashed in it, which is absolutely, insanely ridiculous - but a lot of people believed it. And then the other thing is they had to controlled demolitions to cut each girder to 30 feet, so it would fit on Rudy Giuliani’s trucks going out of town. The World Trade Center was collapsed by a direct energy weapon, being operated from one of the outer space weapons platforms, and the reason we know is because of the size of the dust that was left of the concrete. It was approximately 80 microns, and that’s what a direct energy weapon collapses when it’s pointed down. That’s what it uses, it’s called “molecular disassociation”. I mean, it just disassociates the molecular structure of concrete and that’s why all that dust was there. There was just nothing left. K: Nice one... J: And that’s why the basement of the World Trade Center was molten for six weeks, is because, when it finally does hit the ground, it heats it up so much. You can pour as much water as you want, it’s not going to cool off for a time. So I believe all of this was controlled by the E-4B, the Doomsday airplane, the 747 that was seen flying over the White House. I think there is the one that did the holographic projection, and they also transmitted the CGI, computer graphics, to the different TV channels, to show the airplanes allegedly crashing. That’s why we had the accidental nose out on one of the, on one of the buildings. They were the ones that sent the alleged cell phone messages, which never occurred. They did all kinds of stuff. They made probably transponder things for the different ATCs to phone. K: So you’re saying the hologram had to come out of, had to be done by a plane in the air? J: Yeah. K: Really. J: It was done by a projector. A holographic projector. K: Oh, yeah. Okay, so, the technology exists out there. Have you, I mean, and I understand that you talked to your friend, who wrote the book... J: Norm Bergrun. K: Norm, but where else have you heard about this holographic technology? J: Ron Blackburn... you know who he is? J: Ron Blackburn was with Lockheed for 30 years. He was with the stealth program, stealth program project up at Groom Lake for 20 years. He was the one that I first heard there was aliens at the test site. Now, when I first met him 10, 15 years ago, he denied knowing everything, now he’s gotten a little bit more lax about what he says. I mean he said up at Groom Lake there was an administration building just for the aliens up there. Ron was at my birthday party here. K: [Laughs] So we need to get to this guy as well. J: He’s retired now, he’s retired. He’s very careful about what he says. K: Okay. J: He still has a retirement. But he came to my birthday party, and a he told us about holographic projections. He says they contain the sound, light, heat, everything, I mean everything is there. One of the people, one of the problems that people have with holographic projections... Well I saw it, it couldn’t have been. You know, like, they think of holographic projections like you see in Las Vegas or at a birthday party, you know. K: Right. J: Where it’s a little dancing light like there. K: Where you can see through it. J: Yeah, and they say... K: And, so you know it’s there. J: “Well, I saw it, couldn’t be”. You know it’s ridiculous. And then they say, “well, how would they have done the sound, they would have had to have speakers all up and down, you know, the street.” It’s too bad people, you know, they don’t really realize how far we are advanced with our technology. They were fooled, it was a scam. It was a psi-op. K: Okay, so who ran it? J: Basically I call them the “Nasty NASA Nazis”, in the middle of the military-industrial complex. Hoagland tells exactly who they are and how they took over, and that’s who ran it. Now, in March 31st, 2007, last year, a guy named Morgan Reynolds, if you’ve heard the name? K: Yes. J: Okay... he filed a suit called the Qui Tam Complaint, against these 22 companies. And we’re talking about major companies K: No. J: [To Bill] Do you know who he is?


here. Science Applications, International Corporation, Applied Research, Hughes - all these companies right here are being sued, and what they’re being sued for is accepting money for providing a government agency with fraudulent information. The government agency they provided with this fraudulent information is NIST - The National Institute of Standards in Technology. NIST was asked by President Bush to determine exactly why the World Trade Center collapsed. What actually caused it to collapse. And they came up with a reason that, you know, the jet fuel and it was just so far ridiculous, that Morgan filed this suit and it’s FORTY PAGES and he outlines everything that they got wrong. And so the suit has been going along in court now. K: And you testified as to the holographic planes as part of the suit, right? J: Well what I did is I filed an affidavit on January 28th, 2008, this year, in support of the Complaint and in opposition to the Motion To Dismiss. And basically, what I testified is: 1) why the airplanes couldn’t have traveled as fast as they did and HOW they couldn’t be flown as well as they were, and why there, you know, there was no wreckage in there. And I think this book... K: It’s amazing that other pilots haven’t come forward because this is... J: Well, other pilots are employed; they can’t afford to come forward. There’s very few, you know, people, there’s a lot of... K: But this is our COUNTRY we’re talking about... J: They can’t do it. A lot of my information was taken from Aerodynamics for Naval Aviators [holds up the booklet] and I explain WHY an airplane cannot fly 500 mph at a thousand feet. It has to do with drag, and it has to do with power and it has to do with the fact that they use turbofans. It just can’t happen. So anyway the government’s and NIST’s contention is that they flew 500 mph - it didn’t happen. It couldn’t happen. So basically that’s what I explained in my suit. Now, you say why don’t many pilots come forward? Many have, there’s an organization called www.PilotsForTruth.com and I’m a member, one of the earlier members of that, and there’s a lot of people that realize that this couldn’t have possibly happened. There was no, an airplane like a Boeing 757 flying into the Pentagon. No, that didn’t happen. K: So what happened at the Pentagon? J: At the Pentagon, a bomb went off to make that hole there and they had a 55 gallon drum of diesel fuel that a guy lit, to make all that black smoke there. And April Gallup who... K: Yeah, I think the April Gallup story is fascinating. J: ...April Gallup was a... K: Okay, so let’s, let’s go back where we were, which is... J: Okay, we’re talking about April Gallup. K: Right, April, okay. J: April Gallup was an Army Specialist, and I forget what her job was but, she was - she had a Top Secret clearance. She was sitting about 40 feet from the - where the explosion made the hole in the front of the Pentagon and she had her six-month-old son right below her desk and she thought that was odd because, usually, when she went to work, before going through security, they had to put the little kids in day care, but on that day, security said, “No, take the kid in with you”. So, she had it - she had the kid right below in his little holder there, and she says it was really strange because as she pressed the ON button for her computer, that’s when the building exploded, and she said a lot of debris came down on her and she saw the hole over there and she thought, “I got to get out of here”. So she picked up her kid, put him over her back, and went towards that opening and she got through that opening onto the grass - which is where, eventually, the triage was set up. But she said she saw no missile, saw no airplanes, smelled no fuel. There was no airplane in there. And later in the hospital she got interviewed by Army Intelligence and they asked her what she saw, and she started to say “I didn’t see anything” and they said “No, yes you did. You saw a Boeing 757 crash into there”. She says “No, no, no, I didn’t. There was nothing there”. And she’s gone through hell for the last four or five years trying to get medical care. It’s been a really very, very sad story. But, one of the things I wanted to show this is a page from a military manual talking about stuff that they would like to get in the year 2025. This is called airborne holographic projector, you can see where I got it. You can’t get it any more here, was www.au.af.mil and I got about 250 pages of this stuff... K: It’s talking about a hologram machine. B: It refers to enemy perception management, is that right? That’s such a wonderful euphemism. Have I remembered that right? J: Yeah, it says... brief description: “The holograph projector plays a three dimensional visual image in a desired location, removed from a display generator. The projector can be used for psychological operations and strategic perception management. It is also useful for optical deception, and cloaking, providing a momentary distraction when engaging an unsophisticated adversary. And it has capabilities, precision projection of a three dimensional visual images into a selected area. Supports [si-op and strategic deception management and provides deception and cloaking against optical centers.” K: Okay, and when was that written, do you know? J: I think in ‘99. I’m not sure. I’ll give you an address where you can get it NOW. K: Okay.


J: It’s not at THAT address. K: Right. K: Right. J: But I think it’s at Maxwell Air Force Base. K: We have to believe if that’s out in the public sector, that this is just the tip of the iceberg as far as this technology goes. J: Absolutely. B: Strategic Perception Management. Isn’t that just wonderful? K: It’s great. B: I just think that’s so great. K: Alright. B: An unsophisticated enemy, like the people in the streets of New York. J: [Laughs] I was going to say that. B: [Laughing] J: And I thought, you know what - I don’t think that I’ll say that! K: [Laughing] B: Nothing personal against New York. J: But they have, and when you go into it, they have what they call the hybrid high energy laser system [HELWEPA...HighEnergy Laser Weapon Systems Applications]. But when you go in here and get a close up of this system, it’s showing you how they could attack right between Iran and Afghanistan. It’s hilarious, you know, it’s - that’s where they’re going to be attacking and that’s where they knew they were going to be attacking back in, you know, 1999, you know. And that, that was published then so, you can see how far ahead they plan this stuff. I mean they plan it thirty years ahead. I was looking for that page... K: Okay, when you say they’re going to be attacking between Iran and... J: Afghanistan. That’s where the pipeline is coming, they want that area. K: Okay, right, so that’s why we’re going to war with Iran, is what you’re saying. J: Yeah, we want to clear that area so we can run the pipeline down there. K: It sounds like you’re saying they’re going to use a special kind of weapon to attack there. J: But it was just odd that, you know, that it would be all ready on PAPER, available to the public to show them where they’re going to be attacking. K: Okay, this is... B: What you said to us off-camera, just before we started, was you felt there was going to be, I think you used the words nuclear war. J: Oh yeah, I have no doubt that we’re going to nuke Iran. I’m sure that’s in the plan and Cheney certainly wants to do it. I don’t know have any inside information, but It looks to me, like, one of the scenario, possible scenarios, would be that Bush gets assassinated in October. Cheney becomes President and then declares Martial Law. And then something happens and where we “have to” attack Iran. Of course, we won’t attack Iran - we’ll get Israel to do it. And, they’ll attack them with their nukes and then we’ll slap them on the wrist by saying we’re going to give you 50 billion dollars for a rehabilitation program here, so that you won’t nuke anybody else. Psychological rehabilitation program. We’ll give them, you know... K: Okay, but nobody’s going to get away with nuking anyone, I mean, in other words, you’re going to have China, you’re going to have Russia, I mean, basically we’re going to be at World War III at that point, right? J: Yeah, but it won’t be that big. What they’re going to do is cut the cables, communication cables... K: Oh, the undersea cable thing. J: Yeah, so that there’s not a lot of communications, so that they can give... K: So no one knows what’s really happening. J: No one really knows what’s happening. It will all be handled on an upper level. All this is handled on an upper level. All this has been planned in communication with, and in agreement with China and Russia. They all know what’s going on. So it’ll be, you know, just to try out new weapons and... K: Well, actually, this is what, again, our Henry Deacon says. He says China’s in on it. There’s going to be a war with China, but they already know it’s planned. J: Yeah, of course. And like everybody was ready for the Japanese Yakuza and the Chinese satellite and on ATS they said “they’ll tell us what’s going on, they’ll give us the real picture” and all they did was recycle old NASA pictures, you know. And of course China was very embarrassed. You know they said “these are not recycled NASA pictures”, but you could go right to where, you know, yes, that was an old recycled NASA picture. Now, what they’re doing up there orbiting the moon, if they ARE J: Well they could use that hybrid high energy laser, you know, they got plenty of stuff they could use.


orbiting the moon, I don’t know. But they’re certainly not taking pictures, you know, that they could use for themselves. [pause] K: Why not? J: Because they’re already in on it, they already know what’s there, I mean, you know we mined them... K: So what’s the modus operandi behind doing all of this? I mean, why are they, why are they going to plan wars - nuclear you’re talking about - nuclear wars where, you know, millions of people are going to die, land is going to become uninhabitable. I mean, you know, this is crazy - even if they wanted to keep a pipeline... J: That sounds like a good reason. K: There, what’s the point of making the LAND, I mean, you know... J: You know, they’ve cleaned up nuclear weapons in the past thirty years, they don’t have that much radiation. K: Why go nuclear though? I mean it’s so messy. Why would, I mean, you know, I’m not a military guy, but if they’ve got scalar weaponry and they’ve got HAARP, I mean, you know; they’ve got earthquakes they can cause, I mean, there are a lot of other things they can do besides going, I mean, that just seems like the nth degree of insanity. Why would they do it? J: You know it’s like asking when I talk about Endeavor and the space shuttle being such an outmoded method of getting to the ISS... K: Right. J: ...and people say “well if we have all this cool stuff that you say like, you know satellites and anti-grav stuff and everything, why do they use the space shuttle?” It’s the same thing with the nuke thing. There’s levels of secrecy, levels of intelligence, you want to keep a certain segment of the people knowing just, you know, thinking that the space shuttle is all we got, you know, and nuclear weapons are “all we got”, so we use those. It’s that type of deal. K: Okay, so you’re going to kill millions of people, eliminate... J: I don’t think it’ll be MILLIONS, but it’ll be a few. K: And what is Iran going to do at that point? You know? I said: Bob? J: Oh, they’ll get all pissed off. I don’t really know what they’ll do. K: Uh huh. Ok, do you have any inside contacts about THIS? J: Ahh, let’s see. About Iran, about nuking Iran? K: Yeah. So that was the big laugh for about five years, that John Lear gets on the wrong airplane. He says: Where the hell are you? And I said: Well, I accidentally got on the wrong airplane. I’m in Los Angeles. J: No. K: Okay, [long pause] What about 2012 and a hologram of an alien invasion, have you heard this scenario? J: Absolutely. It would be probably what they’re going to do. K: [Laughs] J: They’re going to put a hologram and say “Oh, we’re being attacked by aliens. We’ve made a deal with the ambassador and he says that they feel that Earth is a threat and that; but, if you all take all, any weapons you have and turn them in, that they’ll give us a second chance. K: So at that point we have one world government because... J: Yeah. K: ...they could put everybody under the same roof and basically all the countries, your talking not individuals bringing their rifles... J: Yeah, individuals. Yeah that’s one of the things the aliens want is for all you guys, you know, to turn in your individual weapons so that they don’t feel so much of a threat. K: But aliens, come on, okay, so this is a scenario... J: It’s a scenario where the government wants to disarm us and they way is to put a hologram up there of an attack and they say we’ve been in communications with them and... K: A common enemy and... J: Right. K: ...it’s a fake enemy. J: ...and you can really help us if you’ll turn in all your weapons. Of course by the time we’ve turned in all weapons, there’s not much we can do, when we find out it’s just a scam - like 911 was. Yeah, that’s a scenario I’m sure that’s going to happen. Part 2 John Lear: He’s driving home by the time I get to Los Angeles and get my cell phone.


And before they gave him his clearance they said: Now Bob, you’re not going to cause us any more problems, are you? And he said No. K: Well, they basically threatened him to get him to come back in. Isn’t that right? I mean, he was having all kinds of problems right before that. J: I... didn’t hear that part. K: OK. But he’s been inside for about four years. J: I think so. K: OK. And you’re saying that it’s possible he might give interviews. J: Yeah. Yeah, he did the Travel Channel a couple years ago. And just the other day he did somebody else, you know. But it would be best that you guys not mention my name. [Kerry laughs]. Just call him up out of the blue, you know. K: OK. But he’s your friend, right? J: Yeah. Yeah, he’s a good friend. He came to my birthday party and it was really great. As I’ve told you... I used to have two wicker chairs here. In 1987 I started talking about UFOs. I gave a lecture at the Spring Valley Library. Well, it created such a ruckus here in Las Vegas! People were calling, there were people wanting to interview me. I mean, it just EXPLODED. And, of course, it disrupted my family here because people were calling. Marilee eventually had my phone shut off. She took all my UFO files. [Kerry laughs] I mean, it was bad. And so, in 1988, a guy called. He said: My name is Gene Huff. I’m a real estate appraiser and I’d like to get some of your tapes and stuff. I said: Gene, I’m out of it. You know. It’s almost cost me my family. I’m just not doing it. He says: OK, well, you know, if you ever want to trade some tapes, I’ll trade you a real estate appraisal for it. And I said: Oh, wait a minute. Because, you know, I needed some money. I said: I’ll tell you what. I’ll get you those tapes and you appraise my house. So he came over the day after that to do the measurements. Of course, he had no idea it was 7,700 square feet! He’s complained ever since because he had to do such a huge house for just a couple of tapes and some information. Well, anyway, when he came over he brought this guy named Bob Lazar, and he introduced him to me. Bob was the guy holding the end of the measuring tape.

Start of interview Kerry: [laughing] OK. And with your ideas - and they’re pretty cutting-edge basically - do your friends agree with you? J: I don’t have any friends. [Kerry laughs, John laughs] K: Come on, John. I don’t believe you. You’re one of the most charming guys we’ve come across. J: My good friend Bob Lazar thinks I am nuts. So... K: Does he really? J: Yeah. He told us at the birthday party. K: And he works on UFOs, so ... J: As a matter of fact, if you’ll reach behind you, I would like to read his birthday present to me. It’s that cup that says “JL.” K: All right. J: Just hand it over here. [Kerry laughs] Now, Bob Lazar had this made for me and this is my birthday present. Basically, what it is... K: [laughs, hands cup to John] What does it say? J: [reading cup and turning it toward camera] ... is the Periodic Table of Elements. And the Periodic Table of 116 is “JL.” And it says it’s “a human solid.” And the atomic mass is 256.89. And it has all the stuff there [running finger around image on cup]. And then it says: • • • • Element: John Lear. Occurrence: Found primarily in Nevada. [Kerry laughs] Physical properties: JL is a rare and unstable element. It is best known for its remarkable ability to resist common sense and facts. [Kerry laughing] Applied liberally, JL has been known to improve the quality of lives. It is also known to absorb great quantities of expensive substances. It is one of the most powerful moneyreducing agents known to man. Prolonged exposure to this element can cause severe physical, mental, and financial damage.” [laughs; Bill and Kerry laughing off camera]

K: That’s great. [laughing] OK. And you told us off camera that Bob Lazar has gone back in, working for the government. J: Yeah, he works back at Los Alamos National Laboratories. K: What’s he working on? J: Have no idea. One of the things he told us is when he went back to work they had a short chat with him [Kerry, Bill laugh].


And he said: Bob used to work at Los Alamos National Laboratories, and he lives in town now and develops photos. And so I said Great, you know. So Gene and I were talking about UFOs and Bob was rolling his eyes. He said: You guys are nuts. This could not be true. I worked at Los Alamos. I had a “Q” clearance. If it’d been true, I woulda known about it, I did enough snooping around there. So he didn’t want to hear about any of this stuff. So anyway, that was like in June of ’88. So over the next four or five months, Gene and I and Bob exchanged information. And Bob, you know, he... There was three or four things that pushed him over from “This is totally ridiculous,” to “It might be true.” And one of them was, in those days we knew about a secret facility at Los Alamos called YY-II, and my information was that it was where they held aliens there. And then there was something else. But anyway, Bob found out - Yeah, there WAS YY-II. And yeah, it was WAY more classified than he could get in. And there was like three or four things. And anyway, in November, that was when Bob decided that: Well, you know, I think I’ll see if I can get a job up at Area 51. So he called Dr. Teller, who he knew from Los Alamos. And I think I was there when Bob talked to him. And Teller said: Do you want to work out here at Lawrence Livermore with me, or there in Nevada? And Bob said: I want to work at Groom Lake. [smiles broadly] And so Teller said: Well OK, let me get back with you. So then, Bob had three interviews down at EG&G, and he would come up here after each interview. And I remember, after his second interview, the first question was: Do you know John Lear? And: What do you think of John Lear? And Bob said: Yeah, I know ’im. And I think he sticks his nose into places where it doesn’t belong. And Bob told me: What I DIDN’T tell them was I ALSO like to stick my nose into places where it doesn’t belong. [Kerry laughs]. So he got his third interview and he told us, you know, he aced them, because they talked about really technical stuff. And he just laid it out. And he said: I did a good job. Anyway, the next thing I know it’s December 6th of 1988. Bob comes, sits down, and he says: I saw a disk today. And I’m writing out checks there, you know. I’m not paying attention. I said: What? He says: I saw a disk today. J: But THAT night, that’s EXACTLY what he said. And I...: A disk? Theirs or ours? K: OK. And he said: Theirs. J: And I said: How’d it happen? I said: You went to Groom Lake? You know. And then we spent about two hours talking about stuff. And it was just totally shocking, and... K: OK. But tell us that story. I mean, we got it on the other tape. But it’s just so much fun, where he sits down and says: John, you’ll never know what it’s like ... J: That was January. And he’d been up there two or three times, or four or five. I don’t know how many. And I remember it was January, because it was bitter cold and I had a short-sleeved shirt on like this [rubs his bare arm]. And Bob comes in and sits there and, you know, he’s just ON. He’s LIT. And he wants to talk about something. And we already knew we shouldn’t talk in here. So we went out by the pool. And Marilee’s coming this way and she says: What are you two doing? You know? [laughs] We’re going out to talk. You know. And she’s suspicious of ANYTHING anyway, and so she doesn’t believe that for a second. But she lets us go. So we went out in the little back place by the stable. And I’m looking at him, saying: WHAT? What? What? And he said: John, you will never know what it’s like to see your first alien. I said [excited]: You SAW one? You saw one? He said: Yeah. I said: It couldn’t’ve been a doll? It couldn’t have been... [He said]: No. It WAS one. [Kerry laughing]. And, you know, these days, you ask him that question, he says: “Well, I don’t know. Coulda been a doll. They were doing all these weird stuff.” K: Oh, yeah. He said: Yeah. And I said: What are you doing HERE? [Kerry laughs] I said: Obviously they’re going to follow you. Why didn’t you just, you know, work there for a while and then come and tell us what happened? He says [Kerry laughing]: Because I’ve seen you take so much crap over the past 6 months about this. I’m telling you it’s real. I saw it, I touched it.


He says: Well, I was walking down the corridor. He said: I got a guard on each side. And, he said, I walked by this door and there is like a 12-inch windowpane [gestures to indicate size of window]; it has wires through it. And I looked through it and there’s two guys in lab coats facing me. And an alien standing up talking to them. Now, did I show you that picture? K: I don’t think so. J: ‘Cause he drew it for me. K: Oh really! J: Do you want me to get it? K: Yeah. Absolutely. J: [indicating papers on desk] These are a lot of stuff I kept from Bob. [shows diagram] For instance, here’s how security clearance works. The lowest clearance you can get is Top Secret. And then above that, there’s 28 levels of Top Secret Crypto. And then above that, there’s 10 levels. Now, these aren’t the real names, except the top one is Majestic. Now, each one of these are compartmentalized. So that you may have Top Secret Crypto 25, but you don’t get to know ALL that information. All you get to know is what you’re cleared for. In other words, when you get Top Secret Crypto 25, somebody doesn’t come and tell you: This is ALL the stuff that the guys in the Top Secret Crypto 25 get to know. It’s compartmentalized. So we had this to show that the President of the United States is, like, Top Secret Crypto 17. He doesn’t need to know very much. He’s a figurehead. He’s told what to do. K: Right. J: So he doesn’t really need to know all this. To my understanding, the last President that was given any kind of a briefing was President Nixon. Ford knew a little bit. Reagan knew a little bit. Of course, Bush knew something because he was, you know, Director of the CIA. That doesn’t mean they tell the Director of the CIA anything. He’s an appointed office and they HATE appointees, so he knew that for other reasons. But anyway this is how that chart worked. [Picks up a cassette tape] These are the... When Bob decided NOT to go back to work for the government, we took him into three regressive hypnosis sessions. And they were with Lane Keck. And Lane was supposed to be at my birthday party and I don’t remember why he didn’t come. Or maybe he did come. I think he did come. We’ll see on that DVD. But he did the regressions for Bob. And what we tried... It was EXTREMELY interesting. The first one we didn’t get, because the tape recorder broke, and Gene Huff has those on notes. But the SECOND one - I have the second one - and that’s where we tried to pull the information out. And I’ll tell you what here. K: If he knew Teller, he must’ve... And he worked at Los Alamos. J: He only knew Teller because he met him that day in front of Los Alamos when Teller was giving his speech and Bob was on the cover of the Los Alamos Monitor with his jet-car. And he walked up to Dr. Teller and said: I’m the guy you’re reading about. And the doctor said: Oh, really neat. And they had a little chat. But that’s the only place he knew him from. He didn’t work WITH him. But he did work at Los Alamos and he did listen to Teller talk. K: OK. I see. J: So Bob, when he went up to S-4, they said: You have to choose what you want to do. You can’t have a little bit of it all. You have to choose. You know, do you want to work on this or that. And Bob wanted to work on reverse engineering the propulsion. That was his job. But he got briefed on all this. And what he’s showing me here [close-up of drawing] is how you go forward in time - which is just exerting a strong gravitational pull. And how you go aft. And he started drawing it like that, and then he put in a scribble. So anyway, these were the... [Holds up next paper] Bob Lazar 1987. He was drawing me the different shapes of vehicles that were at S-4. And this one [pointing], what he’s doing here is he’s showing me one that had been hit by a projectile. [going through papers] And when I first started showing Bob the pictures of the Moon, and showing him stuff that was on there [looking through papers]... You know, I would say: Look at this. Look at that, you know, vapor, and this... and that. And he kind of looked at me real skeptical. I was walking out the door of his home, and he says: You know, John, if any of this stuff is true, I’m going to have to kill myself. [Kerry laughs] And so I said: You know, why don’t I get that on paper, Bob? So [close-up of paper] I had him sign this to me. It says: I, Bob Lazar, promise to kill myself is any of John’s Moon stuff is true. Signed Bob Lazar, August 23rd, 1996. [Kerry laughs] Later, if you want... I have a transcript of the second one, and I’ll let you read it. Because it’s extremely interesting. K: That would be great. J: [shows a sketch on paper] This is when Bob was telling me how you went forward and backward in time. K: OK. I was going to ask you that. So Bob worked on time travel, didn’t he? J: He didn’t work on it. He was briefed on it. See, when he went up there...


Well, what happened is, when I finally got somebody, you know... when I ordered that photograph from NASA? You know, they sent me the negative. You know? It was a 16 x 20 negative. K: Right. J: And it took me, you know, five or six years before the technology got... even to Las Vegas, to make a positive of that size negative. So when I got it, I took it over to Bob’s house and... [camera zooming in on photo] There’s a little one right here. This is the first I got and I took it over to Bob and he scanned it. And those are the scans that went on ATS. And so up here [pointing to photo] – I’ll let you do a close-up later – there’s obviously what looks like a parking garage. So, Bob looks at it and looks at it and looks at it. And he says: Yeah. He says: I’ve got to admit. That is not natural. That is something. And so I said: You know, Bob, we’ve been friends for a long time, and I know you are a man of your honor. And you have agreed that if any of my Moon stuff was true, that you would kill yourself. [Kerry laughs]. And he says: Well, is there any way I can get out of it? And I said: Yeah. Yeah, as a matter of fact, why don’t you just sign this statement here? [Kerry laughs] And [showing paper] this is August 5th, 1998. This is two years later. It says: I, Bob Lazar, in return for not having to honor my commitment to kill myself if any of John’s Moon stuff was true, do freely admit that the object in the crater Copernicus on the Moon, saved as “apple crate,” is a box, which I don’t know what it’s doing there. Signed, Bob Lazar. Now that’s the best I could get him to do. [close-up of Moon photo] But that is the infamous parking garage on ATS that I show everybody. And people say: No, I don’t see a parking garage. But, I’ll show you the enlargements later. But anyway... These are some more. [close-up of drawing] This is the original drawing he did on how the anti-matter reactor worked. And this is how he showed me the arches were in the... K: And that was what year? J: This is all between December of 1988 and March of 1989. [shows paper] And these are the notes I kept: Meeting with Bob Lazar, November 2nd, 1988, because I typed up this stuff. K: I see. Now, did he draw an alien for you or not? J: Yeah. K: You got it there? Because we’d love to see that. [John looking through papers] J: I realize that we went to get this. [Pulls paper out of stack] Now, the original is blue and I’m sure it’s here somewhere. But this is the original drawing he made me. [close-up of sketch]: “Drawn by Bob Lazar, January 1988. This scene is at S-4. Position of gray in relation to two scientists in lab coats. Size, orientation and construction of window” through which he saw scientists and a Gray. So this is... We were sitting... He was scribbling all over. [Rotates paper] This is the test site and where S-4 was. [pointing] This was the length of the hangars, 360 feet and each bay was 40 feet long. [Rotates paper again] This was how the saucer sat in the hangar. And this drawing right here is the two... And this is what Bob drew. [pointing] These are the two lab technicians. And that’s the little alien facing the other way. He drew the door and he drew that wire going through the window. He said he looked through that and saw those guys right there. K: That’s great. Did he ever have any exposure, like communication with them? J: Yeah. Three times. At least three times. K: Really? J: I’ll just show this [holding another paper] because this is on the back side of the piece of paper. This is Aurora. And this is the airplane we have the cruises at 250,000 feet and goes Mach 12. And that was in 1988. And this is what it looked like when he stepped down from the Boeing 737... When he walked down the ramp this way, that thing was parked towards him, so he was looking up the tail. And he said it was absolutely enormous. He said there was two giant squares where the exhaust was. And he said a man would look like a little doll, you know, standing in those. K: Wow. Bill Ryan [off camera]: He’s looking at it from behind? J: He’s looking at it from behind. Yeah. K: Yeah. J: So he doesn’t know exactly. He just assumed that that’s what it looked like in plan view. So anyway, the three times that he saw the alien was... The first time was when they gave him the pine-smelling fluid. And what they did... It’s really interesting. When Bob came in here the very first day and he said, I saw a disk, I said... And he used to wear a ring. And I forget which finger it was on. I said: OK, now listen to me, Bob. They’re going to... they’re going to give you some drugs to make you forget what you’re doing. So what I want you to do is, when they take you in to give you the drugs, I want you to take your ring of – subtly - and put it on your other hand. You won’t remember, but when you come up to see me, I’ll see it and you’ll know you’ve already taken the drug.


He said: They already did that today. K: Oh wow. J: I said: They did? And he described this elaborate drug test of, you know, how they took a needle and they put a rectangle on his - scratched a rectangle on his arm - and then made lines like this [gestures criss-crossing lines on his arm] and lines like that. And then they’d take stuff and put into each little square like that. And then they took him into a room. And he said the room was just like a regular doctor’s office and a couch, and he lay on the couch. And he said there was a screen blocking something, and he said he knew the alien, the Gray, was behind it. And there was a military guy with an M-16 and a doctor and a nurse. And they had him drink the pine-smelling fluid. And he drank the cup. And immediately he felt, you know, dizzy. And he described exactly what he felt like. He said he felt like he was in a well that was 100 feet deep, that his arms were 100 feet long, and he was just holding on to the sides of the well, just barely with his fingertips. That’s what he felt like. He said then they started to read the clearance, the briefing of the clearance, which he was being given. So they’d say, you know, they’d read a sentence. And he’d say: And I understand that, you know, I am being briefed. And at the end, the soldier would take the M-16 and poke it into his stomach like that [makes gesture of being hit in stomach]. And he said it REALLY hurt. And at each different phase of the clearance, the soldier would take the M-16 and poke it into his solar plexus. And so, in the tapes that Lane Keck did, when we were trying to get the information out, you know... They told him a lot of really interesting stuff, and when we would get to, you know, what’s going to happen in the future, you know, he’d say: I’m not supposed to talk about that. And then Lane would try to work around it with some subtlety. And Bob would say: No I can’t. It hurts. K: Oh my. Wow. Like a programming thing. J: Right. K: So, did he ever do the ring? The ring trick? J: No, because he had already done it. He said they had already drugged him. K: But he had to keep going to work, so ... J: See, the reason he quit was because when we got caught... You know, he’d invite us up to see the flying saucer flights. On March 21st, 1989 - and I have that tape right here and I’ll show you; it’s only 9 minutes long - we took that Celestron 8 [points to telescope] and we saw... You know, he told us when it was going to fly. And me and Gene are right there. And I focused in on it and I saw a flying saucer, you know? And it was, you know, And I said: Quick, Gene, quick! Take a look! And as I stepped back, I hooked my foot around the thing. So, that came up at the birthday party, because everybody at the birthday party was supposed to tell a John Lear story. [Kerry laughs] And that was Bob’s story. K: OK, well, also the story about getting stopped on the road, and the gun, and the car, and the cop... J: Right. That was when the County Sheriff stopped us. And that was the third time we got caught. But the point of that story was that when they took him in the next morning to Indian Springs - which is the center of the all the security - and took him out of the car with a gun in his ear, they said: Now Bob, when we gave you this clearance it meant you were not supposed to tell a-l-l-l your friends about the flying saucers. Now, do you want to work here or not? And that’s when Bob was non-committal, because the last two flights he had taken up to Groom Lake, he could remember walking up the steps and walking down, but he couldn’t remember anything in between. And he said he didn’t want to work on a program like that. K: Well, what about the Tall Whites? Because, from what I understand, Charles Hall talks about the Tall Whites being out at Indian Wells, that area? Do you know anything about that? J: No. K: Bob ever talk about the Tall Whites? J: Uh-uh. No. Only the Grays, and he only had the three times. The once was with the pine-smelling fluid. And the once was seeing them in the room. And then once when George Knapp hired Tavernetti to come up and do the lie-detector test. George rented a room at Caesar’s Palace and Bob and Gene Huff got there early and they knew the room. And so they pull the door open. Gene pulled the door open. Bob looked inside and he turned white and nearly fainted, and he walked over and sat down in a chair. And Gene says: What in the heck is the matter with you? And Bob said: I just had a flash-back. He said: I remember talking with the Gray. And what had happened is, when they opened the door, the way that Tavernetti had set up... There wasn’t very much light. It was one single table, with a chair on one side and a chair on the other side, and some equipment there. It triggered this reaction of Bob when he was reading the briefings and the Gray was across from him. And it was such an over-whelming experience of when you first, you know, are in the presence of a Gray, when, you know, you’re used to asking a question [gestures words coming out of mouth], and then having somebody respond. But when you’re talking to an alien, they pick it up from your mind, and they’re answering tilted about 40 degrees, and it was gold, and it had this stuff radiating off it.


before you can even get out of your mouth... and it gets confusing. And it was just an almost overwhelming experience. So, that was the other time that Bob had the... K: Now, do you think he’ll go on camera with this stuff? J: I doubt it. But, you know, you never know what he’s going to do. Never know what he’s going to do. [Kerry laughs] [John begins going through papers] So let me look through here. [Holds page up] This is the page where we were trying to think of the guy he worked with – Castroloni [sp?]. But I think we finally determined what the guy’s name was. And George Knapp has it, but I don’t know what... K: So is George Knapp working for the Agency? J: No. George Knapp works for Channel 8. Oh, you mean under cover? K: Yeah. J: You know, I don’t know. George knows a lot of stuff. And he had me on a couple months ago. And what he was doing was a story on Sandia. Sandia’s the most secret – not the most secret – it’s THE secret base here that replaced Groom Lake Area 51. And it’s out on the Paiute Mesa... and I’ve got a map of it here. They started building it in 1980 and finished it in 1987, so it’s now 20 years old. About, you know, four or five thousand people work out there. I mean, it’s a HUGE underground base, absolutely enormous. I mean, there’s great big cylinders of offices and stuff that go, you know, a mile deep. And then out on the test site, there’s a couple of runways with all new hangars there and everything. It’s just a MASSIVE operation. So when George went up there to film it, he couldn’t find it. But anyway I’ll show you... As a matter of fact I have it here on DVD. I’ll show you the exact thing that we did. I told him that one of the interesting things was... How do we get the people out there? They can’t DRIVE out there because it’s too far, can’t have that many people on Highway 95 because we’ll be exposing that stuff. We can’t put them on 737s because they’re already full now, you know, and we can’t put on more airplanes going out there. So what they did is, they built a high-speed train that goes from Sandia down to Vegas. And what they did is they put the stops under two of the major hotels. [laughs] So the guys just look like gamblers or, you know, hotel guests walking in there. And they go in there, they open a door, use a card key, and go down, you know, to the thing. K: Oh... OK [laughs] J: I mean, it’s great how they do that. K: Which hotels? Do you know? But it was developed by R. M. Donner. And it has the exact cure for AIDS. And it has to do with the cucumber Trichosanthes kirilowii, which is only grown in China. We tried to get it out of China, on three attempts. But - however they know, somebody J: Yeah, but I’m not going to say. K: [laughing] OK. That’s great. Have you ever taken the train? J: [laughing] Nah. K: You know where it is, you know ... J: I’ve been meaning to go down there, you know. But I try to stay out of trouble! [picks up magazine] Here’s the Los Alamos Monitor that Dr. Teller was reading when Bob was... [shows photo of Bob with jet-car] K: OK. Yeah. Great stuff. J: Yeah, I’ve a friend, Jim Goodall, and he said: I’m coming down there. We’re going to go up to the test site. And I said: You know, I used to do that stuff, but I’m still alive, so, you know, if it’s all the same to you, I don’t want to do it. [shows another paper] Here’s three things that I wrote down that were important. I came up with the speed of time. And Bob said... You know, I told him what it was. And he said: That’s correct. But he said: Who cares? [pointing to list] And what I said was: The speed of time is directly proportional to the amplitude of the gravitational flux. In other words, the speed of time is dependent on gravity. Then Bob told me: [pointing to items on list] • • • • It’s theorized that there is one black hole for every galaxy. It’s theorized that every black hole has its OWN galaxy. HIV - the protein coat is on the virus itself. And The recycle time of the gravity amplifier is 10 milliseconds.

Now, the HIV - have we talked about HIV? K: No, but we can definitely go there. J: AIDS was invented by a Navy surgeon named R. M. Donner. And when Bob read the briefing up at S-4, one of the things that impressed him is that in the paper... All the briefings he read were, you know, 50 to 100 pages, with a blue cover. And they were scattered on this table. And he could take each one. And what it was, was that as he progressed his clearance, these briefings – [lifts top portion of a stack of papers] - Say this is one briefing. It would be stapled here. And as his clearance progressed, you know, they would unstaple a few more pages. But anyway, on the briefing of AIDS... and I have it; it’s probably in here, because I wrote a whole thing on what he told us. It was developed, you know, to get rid of a certain segment of... number of humans.


knows - and each one had been cooked, either by a microwave or something as it passed through customs. So it’s impossible to get it out. But I’ll read you the exact cure and how it works. K: Well, we have a contact right now who says he worked on that - on engineering the AIDS virus - in Africa. J: Possible. But it wasn’t in Africa. It was here. It was released in Africa. But it was built up at S-4. So Bob and I looked for R. M. Donner. We found him. He lived in Santa Fe. He was retired. And we went to see him several times, because Bob then had the contract for the repairing the Alpha probes. And what we used to do is, we used to DRIVE to Los Alamos from here. It was a 16-hour drive. And Bob had a friend there. And it used to take us like 24 hours to rebuild all these Alpha probes. There was like 300 of them. And we’d clean them all up and then rewire them and then put the aluminum tape on them. And then we’d drive back to Las Vegas. K: What’s an Alpha probe? J: They scan for radiation on the people that go in and work at Los Alamos. K: OK. J: Bob had the contract. So we did that about every 6 weeks. So what we’d do is, we’d try to... We knew where Donner worked, and we’d go there; we missed him every time. And then we finally got his home address and we went to his home. And we could never catch him home. Now whether he was not answering the door, or whether he was not really there, or whether we didn’t really have an address – I think we did – we never met up with him. Now, when Bob started to make some money on the photo business and the Alpha probes, we actually went on the airline to go to Albuquerque, and we’d rent a car to go up to Los Alamos. So this one day – and the same things happened on this one day. And I told this in the John Lear stories. I’m going to tell this on myself. I have trouble recognizing Earth people. For some reason, I just can’t, you know, if I haven’t known them for 25 years – and even if I DO know them for 25 years – it’s hard for me to pick them out of a crowd. So what we would do is, to go to Albuquerque, Bob would buy a ticket on Southwest and I’d jump-seat with my airline ID. So one morning we get ready to go. We’re leaving at 7 o’clock. And I go to the airport, and I don’t want to get on the airplane unless he’s on it. And I walked up and down all the passengers and looked very carefully. I couldn’t find Bob! So I didn’t want to get on if he wasn’t there. And I couldn’t reach him at home. So when everybody got on, I asked the flight attendant, I said: Hey, I’m the jump-seat, but I want to be sure a friend of mine... Could you announce, ask Bob Lazar to ring his call button? Well of course what I’d forgotten is, on this particular flight going to Albuquerque, that’s all the Sandia and other guys that go on this flight. So when the flight attendant went: Would Bob Lazar please ring his call button? - of course the whole airplane, everybody starts laughing, ‘cause they think it’s a joke! [laughing] K: [laughing] That’s great! J: So anyway, he rang his call button, I realized he was there, so I got on the jump-seat and went to Albuquerque. We rented a car, drove up to Los Alamos. And for some reason, this day, everything went perfect. I mean we just slid through that thing in about 8 hours. And so we realized that we could drive back, get on the airplane, and have dinner at our favorite Italian restaurant called Parma’s. So we pack all this stuff up and write the P.O. and we go tearing down the mountain from Los Alamos to Albuquerque and down the freeway. We screech into the rent-a-car place, jump right on the van that’s just pulling out, get to the airport. Bob runs up, you know, and gives his ticket. I run up, and sign my, you know, my jump-seat. Run in. They close the door. I sit down. And I heard the captain say: Welcome to Southwest Airlines 304 on our flight today to Los Angeles. And I realized that I had run down the wrong gangway and got on the wrong airplane. [Kerry laughing] So meanwhile, Bob is on the airplane waiting for me and he sees them shut the door. And he can’t figure out where I went. So all the way to Las Vegas, you know, he says: Well maybe he got into the cockpit and I didn’t see ‘im. So they get to Las Vegas. (And, you know, it takes much longer to get to Los Angeles, so I couldn’t call him.) And he gets to Las Vegas and he goes up into the cockpit and I’m not there. And he cannot understand how we could have been so close and I didn’t get on the airplane. So he’s driving home about the time I get to Los Angeles and get my cell phone. I said: Bob? He says: Where in the hell are you? And I said: Well, I accidentally got on the wrong airplane. I’m in Los Angeles. So, that was the big laugh for about five years, that John Lear gets on the wrong airplane. [Kerry and John laughing] The information that Bob got up at S-4 was [reading from a paper]: AIDS was a virus that is protected by the protein coat on the RNA preventing the antibodies, the T-4 cells, of the immune system from detecting and eliminating it. The alleged cure for AIDS lies in the excrement of the white fungus that’s grown


from the Chinese cucumber Trichosanthes kirilowii. This excrement, which develops after about two or three weeks, is separated with hydrazine sulphate in an acidification process which dissolves the protein coat on the RNA and exposes the nucleus of the virus that’s detected by the antibodies in the immune system. Regardless of how weak the immune system is, the virus will be destroyed. No more than 20cc dose per 36-hour period should be administered. No antibiotics should be used during this period. The 20ccs are metabolized in 36 hours, having dissolved the protein coat on the virus. And I mention here that over the last 20 years I have been party to several attempts to get samples of the Trichosanthes kirilowii out of China, but all have met with failure, the last samples having been cooked during departure procedures. Now, the “October Surprise.” In 1980, when Reagan and Bush were running against Carter and Mondale, as you know, the hostages were still in Iran, in Teheran. And then Bush took an airplane to Paris to meet – not with Khomeini, but with a representative of Khomeini. And the deal was, if the Khomeini would delay the release of the hostages until Reagan’s inauguration, that the Reagan-Bush administration would supply him - the Iranian regime - unlimited guns and ammunition throughout their administration, which would go from 1980 to 1988. My part in that was to deliver those guns and ammunition from Tel Aviv to Teheran. The reason I brought this up is that big sheaf of papers over there is the details of who was flying and how they pulled the whole thing off. The way they pulled if off is, Bush left Saturday night on a BAC 111 jet which only takes about 6 or 7 hours to get there. He only spent about 4 or 5 hours in the meeting. And then he was flown back in an SR71 from a base in France to McGuire Air Force Base. And it only took an hour and 14 minutes. That way, he was able to show up for a tennis appointment that he had on Sunday, and that the press would have not known of the lapse in time or the trip. And as it turned out, they were elected and they supplied these guns and ammunition. And that was, you know, part of the “Iran Contra,” but Congress never went back farther than 1985 to find out when it originally started. And when I moved to Egypt in 1981, that was going to be my job, was to take those arms and ammunition from Tel Aviv to Teheran. They were coming into Tel Aviv from Zaragosa, our Air Force base in Spain. And Mossad was handling the whole thing. I never did fly a flight. And the reason was, the first airplane in was an Argentinean CL44. And what they wanted to do was use an old turboprop airplane to be sure everything went fine and there were going to be no problems. And for some reason it got shot down on its way out. And it got shot down over Russia, about 40 miles south of Yerevan, which was well inside Russia. And the Mossad couldn’t figure out how the pilots got off course. They were on their way out. They had dropped the load, you know, already dumped the arms and ammunition off. And they finally figured out that what must have happened is the pilots were intercepted by the Russian MIGs who knew what was going on and didn’t like it. And the pilots thought: Well, you know, might as well follow them because we’ve got nothing on board, they can’t prove anything. And then as soon as they got them over Russia, just shot their ass down, which was a message to Mossad: Hey, we don’t want this to go on. So that big sheaf of papers was the history behind the “October Surprise.” There were two books. Gary Sick and Barbara Honegger each wrote books about it. Congress went as far as to actually launch an official investigation in 1990, but it was all covered up because, you know, nobody wanted to go back that far or hear any more stories about that thing. But the hostages did spend - let’s see - October, November, December - an extra four months there. K: So Reagan could be elected. J: Right. K: Incredible stuff. J: A lot of people know this story. Well, it’s been, what? 30 years? And pretty much everybody has forgotten it. The only reason I brought it up is because I’m putting that history there, who the pilots were ... K: Do you know anything about the Minot... the recent incident with the Air Force Base and the weapons that were... the nuclear warheads that were... J: That smells to high heaven. I found that on ATS. It was very, very thorough. It was one of my favorite threads. It went on forever. And we had some guys at ATS that really knew what they were talking about. And that was EXTREMELY interesting. It had to be Cheney. It couldn’t have been anybody else that authorized it. And it was one of the most double-dealing instances I’ve ever seen. K: What would you say it was a set-up for, though? Why’d they do it? J: You know, that’s the question. Why did they? They have nuclear weapons already in Europe. Why’d they need to steal them, you know? K: Right. And why’d they need to fly them from North Dakota or wherever it was, South Dakota, across the United States? I mean, what was the point?


J: It’s crazy. There IS no point. Well, there is a point, but I don’t know what it is. But that episode is extremely interesting. I’d sure... You know, one day we’ll find out and, you know, we’ll say: Ohhh, that’s what it was all about. I don’t know, but that was really... It’s My’-not. K: Yeah. Meh-no’, North Dakota. J: That’s the French pronunciation. We Americans call it My’not. [laughing] I’m kidding you. K: I see. OK. So where are going next, John? What do you have? J: I don’t know. While we’re thinking about where we’re going next [picks up a book] I just ordered this book. Somebody, it just accidentally came up there. It’s called The Gravitational Force of the Sun by Pari Spolter. It was written in 1993. And basically what it says here... [reading]: This book is a serious challenge to Newton’s Law of Universal Gravitation as presently formulated. And I’m just, you know, this far [shows small number of pages] in it. And basically why that interests me is because Newton DID have some ideas about the Moon, along with, you know, throughout history, about 36 other people who thought there was gravity on the Moon, there was atmosphere, and there was people up there. But each one, you know... The information got gently suppressed. K: Well, we have bases up there. That’s really what ... J: NO question about that. We have bases on Mars. You know, the Secret Astronaut Corps has visited every planet, or most of the planets. K: Every planet? J: And much farther than that. We’ve been to other solar systems. People, when we talk about other planets, say: Well, it’s too hot on Venus. No. That’s bullshit. The sun is an electromagnetic sphere. It’s not a nuclear reactor. And it doesn’t radiate heat as such. It radiates electromagnetism and each planet has its own filtering system. And so the filtering system around each planet determines what the temperature is. So temperature on Venus is much like Earth. So it is on Mars. So it is on Pluto. The same on Mercury. There are people just like us on every single one of the planets. The planets that you hear about as being gas giants, like Saturn and Neptune... There’s only ONE gas giant in our solar system, and that’s NASA. [Kerry laughs] That’s the only gas giant we have. All the rest of the planets, people live on and ... K: So what do you think? They’re being shrouded? You think there’s... J: We’re being suppressed. The information is being suppressed. We’re not allowed to know about any of that. The people that Hoagland talks about have taken over. And they consider space personally theirs. And they don’t want to share it with any of us. They have technology that we wouldn’t have to pay for gas or electricity right this single minute. K: Right. J: But they don’t want to share it with us. It’s only for the elite, and we’re not included there. We can go to war, you know, and be subjects for weapons and tests and stuff like that, but we are not going to share in that technology. But out there there’s a fantastic universe, fantastic set of planets. It’s really interesting out there. B [off camera]: John, I would like to ask you a few questions, basically on behalf of the people who are watching this video. We’re asking these questions on their behalf. First of all, I want to say that our source, Henry Deacon, told me personally - I don’t think this is on our site, because for me it felt outlandish - He said that there’s life on every planet in the solar system. He looked me in the eye and he said: You may well not believe this, but I promise you it’s true. [John laughs] He said that Venus is not as hot as they want you to believe. He said the sun doesn’t work the way that they teach you in school. He said a whole bunch of stuff that corroborates what you’re saying. Now, he was on the inside. He’s worked in deep black projects all over the place in a number of establishments. And so his source comes from briefing documents, conversations with other physicists, and so forth and so on. Where do you get your information from here? Because this is so extraordinary and way off the end of the spectrum, that people need to know how you figured this out, or who has told you this, or what your sources are. J: Specifically the sun, that came from a document in the Branton Files. K: OK. So have you ever met Branton?


J: No, but we used to talk a lot. I’m not sure I ever met him face to face. But his name was... what? His real name? K: I forget his real name. J: I think it’s Dave something. But anyway, we used to be real close and then he got sick for a while and I don’t know what he does. But his information is SO interesting. And I have no reason to believe that most of it’s not true. Have you read the Branton Files? K: Oh yeah. Absolutely. J: They’re lengthy. I have a three-inch binder, that I had them printed out. K: I mean, he’s the one who really publicized the Dulce Base information big time in those files. And you’re familiar with all of that, right? J: The whole Dulce story started in 1987 when me, Linda Howe, Tom Adams, and several others met in Crestone, Colorado, to discuss the state of UFOs. And during that meeting - it was about 3 or 4 days - Tom Adams walked over to me and handed me a note. - [Gestures at piles of papers on desk] It’ll turn up eventually, but I don’t have it right now – And the note was from him, who I call “Mr. X,” in Henderson, Nevada, and told him about that he had a friend that worked at an underground base in New Mexico... that the walls, the halls, went on forever, tiled walls, and a little bit of this stuff. And Tom handed it to me. He says: John, I don’t have time to go out there, research this. Would you look into it? And I said: Sure. So when I got back... And before I got back, me and Linda Howe went in my truck all throughout New Mexico. We stopped and talked to Ernie Edwards who was the, you know, the key figure in the Bennewitz deal. And then, she and I drove down through Corona to see Clifford Stone. And she and I took that road that goes from Corona over to the main highway down to Roswell. And we’re going to find the Roswell ranch. And we get to the turnoff and there’s 30 dead cows there. [Kerry laughs] It was CRAZY. And so... They didn’t have the classic mutilations, but they were dead. And we talked to the farmer there and he said: Oh yeah, there’s some kind of a virus going around. And I forget what the whole story was, but none of it made any sense. And we went down and interviewed Clifford Stone. Then I eventually drove back to Las Vegas, and met with Mr. X. And Mr. X started telling me about Dulce, about the guard that had witnessed the atrocities that were going on there, and didn’t agree with them, and he decided to escape. And he escaped with – allegedly - 7 minutes of video tape that showed the hallway, 25 black and white photos, and a hundred pages of information. K: Now, we’re told this is buried on top of a mountain and is inaccessible. J: I’ll get to that. So... B: And that guy was Thomas Castello. Is that correct? J: Thomas Castello. So Mr. X had met Thomas Castello and was very good friends with him. And when he escaped, he made six of these boxes. And what he did is, he gave a box to each one of his friends. And Mr. X was one of them. And Mr. X took me down to Dolan Springs where he hid his box on the top of a mountain. Now, I didn’t go to the top of the mountain or see exactly where it was. But he showed me, you know, where it was generally. So we get back and I talk to Mr. X over a period of three or four months. And eventually he shows me some pencil drawings that he drew from the original photographs. Those became the infamous “Dulce Papers.” And I have the originals right here that I drew from those pencil drawings. And so I drew them. K: And what are they drawings of? J: Of the interior of Dulce K: I see. Well, I don’t know if we’ve seen them or not. But can we get those on camera? J: Yeah. K: OK. Do they contain any pictures of aliens? J: No. They just show the lab, with all the hookups of the bags and everything. B: Are these the drawings that were published in Matrix Two? Matrix One? J: Right. Matrix One. And the way that Matrix happened is, when I kept getting into all this, a guy kept knocking on the door – John Grace – and: Hey, I’d like to talk to you. And that was at the time that I was having so much trouble with Marilee and I kept saying, you know: Don’t come here. I don’t want to talk about it. Finally he came in and we developed a long relationship of collaborating on information. And Matrix One, every page, came off that desk [points across the room]. And I wish I had that book. My mom passed away and there was one left that she had in mint condition and I gave it to one of my nieces. So I don’t have an original Matrix One. I have an original Matrix Two. And now it’s up to Matrix Five. Anyway, John Grace was a really interesting guy. He did a hell of a lot of research. He worked for Nellis Air Force Base. And one day during this period, like late ‘87, he wrote a kind of a “State of the Research” - where we were at, as far as what we had found out. And he wrote it. He wanted to get it out, but he didn’t want to use his name. So he wanted to suggest a name and I said: Why don’t you call it Krill? K-R-I-L-L (because the Pentagon dealt with an alien back in ’84 called C-R-L-L-L.) So he said OK and he came up with, out of the blue, the initials O.H. and it became the “O.H. Krill Papers.” And we weren’t trying to shy anybody on. We weren’t trying to put any false


information out. It was just what we thought the state of the art was then. And John wanted to know and we made up that name. So, later it became a full-fledged disaster because Bill Cooper started coming up then. And Bill Cooper and I did several video interviews. And one of them was PM Magazine in Salt Lake City. And during that interview they asked about “The Krill Papers,” and Bill Cooper said he’d seen them in the Navy 20 years prior! When, you know, John Grace and I had dreamed them up like two months prior to that. [Kerry laughs] And the other thing was, there was a paragraph out then talking about the Excalibur weapon. And the Excalibur weapon was a weapon that the military were developing that would penetrate 1,000 feet of soil. And Bob Lazar had written that, like two months prior. And Bill Cooper had said he’d seen that in the Navy 20 years prior! So I took Bill Cooper out of the room and said: What in the hell are you talking about? John Grace and I wrote that Krill paper and Bob Lazar wrote the Excalibur. He said: Well that may be, but I saw them in the Navy. So that’s when Bill Cooper and I started to split because I couldn’t understand why he was saying stuff like that. And then it became known as “UFO disease.” And UFO disease is where you get so popular in the UFO field and you don’t have anything new to say, you make it up. K: OK. Well, let me ask you something, because as far as I know, the Matrix books are written by Val Valerian, who is John Grace, right? J: That’s John Grace. Right. K: So Matrix Five talks about Planet X, I’m told. I’ve got Matrix Five and I don’t remember seeing Planet X referred to in there. But, you know basically I was just told that it reminded, I guess, that it talks about Planet X. I mean, it certainly talks about everything in there. But, you say Planet X is a complete fallacy. So, are you still in touch with John Grace? Do you know why he says it’s true? J: No, I don’t know. John Grace... You know, I ordered Matrix Five and I read the first 30 pages and I couldn’t get any further. So... There may be a Planet X. There may be a Nibiru. But it’s not going to destroy Earth in 2012. K: OK. What about meteors? You know, aimed at this planet, that are heading in. J: We’ll be protected. You don’t have to worry about meteors. K: And how, by what? J: The guys who take care of us. K: Which is...? Are you talking aliens? Are you talking HAARP? J: Yeah. Aliens. And there’s a page of information. And then there’s the drawings here that you can see are of the lab, and the vats with the human meat in it. And [pointing to a page] the test tubes with growing humans and different... [pointing] This is the womb with the different humans. [turning page] And the different vats. And the... Kerry Cassidy: Where did these papers, the drawings, come from? J: Mr. X copied them from the photographs that Thomas Castello gave to him to hide. K: Okay. J: Mr. X got ONE of the boxes. One of the boxes was hidden in the mountains near Dolan Springs, which is southeast of here on your way to Kingman. So the deal was, they were af... Oh, and then I took these, [shuffles through papers on desk] and what I did was, typed it up and made new black and white drawings from the pencil drawings, ’cause you couldn’t see the pencil drawings very clearly. [pointing to drawing] So, you see you have the vat here and the little thing that comes down. It says: Seems to keep water vibrated. It was an amber liquid. And it gives the approximate K: Do we have any idea which aliens are protecting us? Or do you? J: Probably the Grays. The Grays are responsible for what we call the physical body, which Bob read up at the test site are the “containers.” They referred to it as containers. That’s their job. They see that everything goes OK. And the container contains the souls. The Grays can change souls from body to body, but their responsibility is not the soul. That’s somebody else. And I don’t know who that person is. The Grays are just here responsible for the “containers.” That’s why there would never - unless it was under extremely unusual circumstances - would a meteor ever hit the Earth. There will be no catastrophe like that. Let’s keep that thought and I’m going to have something to eat here... Part 3 John Lear: You know, he was going nuts then because they were shooting his tires out. He came here the night... the day they shot his tires out, or the one tire out. And, you know, he came here and said: John, I’m going to turn myself in. And I said: Bob, there’s nobody to turn yourself in TO. Now stop it! You know?

Start of interview J: Now [holding papers] these are the original Dulce papers. They were written in pencil by Mr. X, who lives in Henderson. And the reason he wrote them down was so that I could distribute them.


dimensions. It says: Looks like large pieces of pale meat in cloudy water - submerged, not floating. [turning pages] Each one of these is a description of one of the photos that Castello gave Mr. X. Here’s a picture of the cameras on the doorway to [points to words] scores of tanks or more. [turns page] And this is... K: Now I forget. What happened to Thomas Castello? J: I’m going to tell you. So [close-up of drawing] here’s a picture of... These “wombs” are hooked into machines. [reading] Wombs submerged in sort of yellow liquid, looks thicker than water. And these humans are growing there. [pointing to words] Creatures float in amber-colored water. Womb is grayish globs of yellowwhite in grooves. Dozens of creatures in each womb. Can’t count the tanks - maybe scores or hundreds. [points to drawing]These wombs were 2 feet vertically and 3 to 4 feet horizontally. These creatures... if you take them out of this womb... Here’s what it would look like if they placed them in your hands. [reading] They have three fingers, two toes. They’re not human. The color is wrong. Looks blue-gray. They have a very thin skin and they’re about 6 inches high. [close-up of drawing]. These are what the test tubes look like. The room light was pink/purple, bright in some areas. Hundreds of these various stages of growth. In other words these tubes, these things that grow in here, are in various stages of growth. Wispy hair, not quite a nose. The mouth looks sealed. The womb looks gray. Veins look dark gray. Creature white, pale eyes, dark lids. Can’t find a gender. Two toes, three fingers. Liquid amber color, not completely clear. Looks like the glass tube is about 5foot high. Then, [turning pages] this is various information. We don’t know what that is, but that was in the papers. So Castello made 5 or 6 of these, waterproof, wrapped in plastic, containers. And they had [reading]: 25 black and white photos, video tape with no dialogue, and a set of papers that included technical information of the alleged jointly-occupied US/alien facility, one kilometer beneath the Archuleta Mesa near Dulce, New Mexico. Several persons were given the above package to hold for safekeeping. Most of those given the package were shown what the package contained, but were not technically oriented, or knew very little about what they were looking at. So Mr. X was given one, hid it, and the deal was... Thomas was on the run. And Dulce or any of those operations send out bounty hunters. And these are like bikers or stuff, that could go find somebody for money. And they’re very serious about their occupation, and usually it doesn’t take very long to go get somebody. But anyway, Thomas told Mr. X: I’m going to be here every 4 months, just to show you that I’m alive. Or I’ll be in contact. If I miss TWO four-month contacts, or 8 months - two in a row - then you can release these papers. So, this all happened in 1987. And I think 1993 or ’94 was when Castello missed his connections. In other words, he missed the contact at the first 4 months and the second at 8 months. So it was decided to go and get the box. I didn’t go myself, but I believe Bill Hamilton did. I think he was one of them. And I think Tal was another one, but I’m not sure, I don’t remember. It’s been, you know, almost 20 years ago. But I do remember that it was a serious effort, that they made at least 6 expeditions in to find this box and it was never found. Bill Ryan [off camera]: You said it was buried at the top of the mountain? Is that correct? J: It wasn’t at the top. I don’t think it was at the top. It was hidden about half way up. K: We heard there was like a spell or black magic, you know, some kind of spell cast on that whole area around the box. J: Could have been. I do know that there is nothing secret that any of us do. We’re always on film or video or some kind of camera, have been for 40 years. There’s absolutely nothing we can hide. Nothing we think or say or do is secret. K: Meaning you guys are surveilled because you were involved? J: No. Everybody. Every person on the face of the Earth. K: [laughs] Oh. Right! J: There’s nothing that anybody does that’s secret. And the Navy... In some of the stuff that Linda Howe came out with... As a matter of fact I had a chance to talk with her the other day. She had found some papers in her garage that looked pretty technical and she said she had got them in the late ’80s, but she had never read them. And so now that she had taken the time to read them, she thought they had a lot of value... and were they mine? And I said, No, they don’t sound like mine. And she said, Okay. Well I’m going to post them. So she posted them on her website. And somebody on ATS says: Hey man, ya got to look at this. Or maybe not on ATS. I think it was gone by then. It was somebody, like on Open Minds. And I said, Okay, I’ll take a look. So I went over there. And it was... You know, you have to pay dues. Or, you know, you have to pay a fee to get on her stuff. So I couldn’t get in. K: Right. J: So I wrote her and I said: Linda, I’m a little short at this time. [Kerry laughing] Can you let me look at them? And I never heard from her. So I got somebody to download it and I read it all. And all it was was stuff that me and Tal and everybody else in the industry... Somebody had taken all that and put it together like it was one big, you know, document.


K: Oh. Okay. J: All of our stuff. And there’s some hidden phrases. The one that I remember specifically was talking about a former Attorney General in Nevada named Brian, and I forget what his first name was. His last name was Brian, and it was spelled B-R-I-A-N. And his real name is BRYAN. For some odd reason I have the capacity to recall stuff that happened, you know, 50 years ago – exactly. And I don’t know what it is, you know? But I can recall stuff I read; stuff, you know... people I talked to. Anything to do with this. [touching papers on his desk] It’s instant. And I don’t know about how it works, because there’s a lot of other stuff I don’t remember. K: Wow. J: But stuff like... Reading... I can take that document and read right through it and say No, I know who wrote each one of these. You know? And recall that. So... K: That’s great. J: The document that she had was not secret at all. K: So the box was never found? What about the other 6 boxes? J: Each one was given to a friend and none of them was found. K: Okay. J: So that’s pretty much the end of the Dulce story. It comes up every once in a while. K: What about Mark Richards? Have you ever heard of him? He’s the guy... Well, he’s a guy who said he was a security guard, who is in prison right now for another, you know... it was like a set-up. He says he was set up for murder. His wife, Joanne, I guess is out... J: Total, total unadulterated bullshit! K: Really? J: And that’s from three of us who have researched that story backwards, forwards, upside down. That’s The Dark of the Moon, or something like that. I mean, it was crazy. When I started to read that... I actually paid for it! I sent... you know, actually paid real money for that story. And, you know, because he says he was a test pilot for my father back in the late ’40s. And that would have fit because, you know, he did use test pilots back then. And some of it sounded pretty interesting. But then, when I read the attack on Dulce and, you know, the attack... The Dulce story, the fight, what we call the “Dulce war,” was not a war at all. What happened is they were in the ... This is like in the late ’70s, I think it was. ’79. The Gray - one Gray - was giving a class to about 40 US scientists. And it was at Dulce. And it was just a Maybe we’ll have time... There’s a videotape over there [points across the room] called The Bob Chronicles and very few people have seen it. And what it was, was when Bob decided not to go back to work at the test site and he was, you know... He was going nuts then, because they were shooting his tires out. He came here the night... the day they shot his tires out – or the one tire out. And... you know, he came here. He said: John, I’m going to turn myself in. I said: Bob, there’s nobody to turn yourself in TO! Now stop it! [John and Kerry laughing] You know? And so he slept on the couch that night and um... I lost my train of thought there. He slept on the couch... What was I talking about? B: Before that you were talking about his having seen these documents but he wasn’t cleared to know about Dulce. But he was told about the firefight. J: Right. K: But you were saying this tape... the tape that he recorded... J: Oh, the tape - The Bob Chronicles. So anyway, right after that George Knapp went in and did an hour of interview over at his house to get everything on tape that he could possibly tell us, so that if they did kill him, then that at least we’d have that. K: Oh. J: And that was before we had made, you know, the Lazar tape. The Lazar tape, you know, took three or four months to do, you know. And then that was a professional one. But what George class. And guards - our guards, the Delta Force - were advised they were not allowed to go into a classroom with a Gray, or approach a Gray, or be anywhere near a Gray, with a firearm of any sort. And so, for whatever reason, this security guard walked into this instructional class with a weapon and the Gray killed him instantly. I mean there was no warning, no nothing, just killed him instantly. K: Oh wow. J: And so the Delta Force who were watching it on the monitor went in force to get, you know... to take revenge on something they had witnessed. And when it was all said and done, there was 66 people killed and it included all the scientists and all the Delta Force. Now... B: By the one Gray? J: By the one Gray. So I had heard this story. And when Bob was at S-4, he read the identical story. He heard the word Dulce. The only difference between the document - the briefing he read on the massacre - was that it occurred at Area 51. And the only possible explanation that I have for that is, his clearance hadn’t advanced high enough for him to know about Dulce. Because it didn’t happen at Area 51. It happened at Dulce. But he did read the whole description, and he talks about that.


wanted to do was get the meat of the information right now so that we had a.... K: So you’re saying you have that? J: Yeah, it’s right there [pointing across the room]. I gave it to Ron, um.... K: Garner? J: Garner... the other day, to put it on DVD. K: Did you? J: [nodding] Mm hm. K: So, are you going to try to sell it? J: I don’t think so. I told ’im... No, it’s... We tried to get it... I talked to George about it and he said no, technically it belongs to Channel 8. So he can’t do anything with it. So I said, Okay. I just show it to friends, you know, to say that... K: Yeah, we’d love to see it! J: Sure. K: That’d be great. J: So in a few minutes here we’ll take a little break and I’ll show that. B: I’d like to ask you how that dovetails into the Phil Schneider story about the firefight at Dulce. J: Well, you know, Phil’s a great guy. I met him on several occasions. It’s a great story. I think there’s aspects of Phil Schneider’s story that are true, but I don’t think the Dulce is. And I don’t think that he was in the Dulce firefight. Because everybody got killed there. K: Well isn’t it possible there’s more than one? J: Firefights? K: Yeah. J: Possible. But Bob only read one. And the guys that I’ve talked to... A few minutes ago we were talking about the insiders that I had met. And then the one insider I told you about - that told me about building the piece of mining equipment that was so huge and he doesn’t know how it went to the Moon - he talked about Dulce. And he said that he knew it as Section D. And there’s other people that know it as section D and not Dulce. K: Okay. Nobody moved while they went in there - NSA guys - and removed that body. They had to, you know, take Grissom and Chaffee and White and get that guy. ’Cause where he was sitting was down by the environmental control unit. And I’ll show you what the Apollo module looks like... because when you first start talking about a fourth guy, it’s: Oh there’s no room, I’ve seen it in a museum. Well, there’s plenty of room down there because that’s where they stored the Moon rocks... were going to store the Moon rocks. And the guy would stick his feet there and lay his head up on the instrument panel. And the astronauts would be laying this way [motioning behind and over his head] and he’d be laying that way [pointing towards his feet]. And what it was, was there was always a fourth guy there to help them sort out their problems. Now, that particular day, Joe Shea was supposed to be there and for some reason Joe couldn’t be there. And so this astronaut, whoever he was, was in there helping them sort these problems out. And any book over there [pointing] on Apollo that you read, the official story is that Walt Schirra met with Joe Shea at lunch and said: You know, why don’t you hook up an extra fourth headset in there and send somebody else in to go help them sort out their problems? And Joe Shea allegedly said: Yeah. I think we’ll try that out. And then each book goes on to say it was too difficult to do; that they woulda had to hang wires out the hatch, and they had to seal the hatch - so they couldn’t do it. And all that, of course, is bullshit. They had everything wired for a fourth astronaut in there just for that specific purpose, to help them sort through the problems. Now you know Clark McClelland? B: Clark McClelland, yes. J: Clark McClelland and I have talked of this at length. And, you know, to this day it hurts him to talk about it, because it was so awful. But, you know, we’ve talked about what happened after that, you know. And his feeling is - he’s the one that told me – he said it was not a specific KILL, but they let it happen. They let them die. And this one really hurts Clark. J: That guy specifically... he was the insider. When I talk about an insider, this guy was on the inside, and he said... You know, he told me stuff I hadn’t heard before. For instance, I’d always heard that we’d been to the Moon earlier than 1969. He said: Yeah, we were there in ’62; to Mars in ’66. K: Wow! J: He was the one that told me about the fourth astronaut being killed in Apollo 1, because he was there two hours later. And they sent him specifically. He didn’t say why they called for him or what he did. But he said that instantaneously as the fire was going out, NSA, who controls everything there – it’s not NASA; it’s the National Security Agency - they locked down the whole area.


Okay, about a week ago CNN said that a 220-mile by 40 or 50mile chunk of ice had broken off from Antarctica and that it just demonstrated how serious global warming was becoming. And it had a video taken by a British crew in a Twin Otter, flying along this huge chunk of ice that was cut as straight as an arrow for 40 miles. And, this was trying to be sold to us, the public, as something that had just broken off, when it was obviously a direct energy weapon that had made all the square cuts on this. And they’re using the weapons that they have - the direct energy weapons - to do all kinds of stuff like that. That one was to cut that piece of ice off so that we would worry about global warming. Which... yes, there is global warming, but we had nothing to do with it. It’s just a natural cycle of Earth that is going to go warm up for a while and then it’ll cool off for a while. There’s nothing we can do about it. Other things they have done with that... certainly the Murrah Building in Oklahoma City, was absolutely a direct energy weapon. No doubt about it. I’m sure that Timothy McVeigh is alive and well now. He was part of the operation. There’s no way that they’d let him die. That was a test for the direct energy weapon, which was pre-assessed for the 911. And talking about the Atlas 5 mystery launch... Atlas 5 is a missile that we... is one of our current missiles that we use to launch all kinds of things into space. This one was launched 24 hours after Atlantis, the STS-122, was scrubbed at Kennedy Space Center. Patrick AFB is right next to that; it’s the military Cape Canaveral. And somehow they got this thing launched in 24 hours. And I’m just saying the importance of the story was, something that was going to go up in Atlantis HAD to get up there, and there was no delaying it. So they had to get the range ready and put these astronauts - I’m sure they were astronauts; it could have been cargo, but I’m sure it was astronauts - in this Atlas 5 and launch it. Now the Atlas 5, of course, has a huge payload on top, and there could be anything in it. I’ve never seen what’s in it. I assume there’s a little spaceship in it and two or three astronauts get in it. When Atlas 5 goes up, it opens like that [motioning with hands cupped and then opening them], and that little spaceship goes out and can maneuver between all the other space platforms we have. And then it can come back in and glide in and land. What’s so suspicious about this is they got that thing into the air within 24 hours after Atlantis was scrubbed - and the story they put out with it. And later I’ll show you the headlines of that story which made it so suspicious. One of the things I wanted to tell you about is that I’ve been driving between Las Vegas and Reno for maybe 30 years. My folks moved up there in 1968. I moved here in 1974. And about two-thirds of the way to Reno there’s a nice little town called Hawthorne, Nevada. There’s a nice little lake there. It’s called Walker Lake. It’s about 14 miles long and about 80 feet deep. It’s a very picturesque little place, huddled up against the mountains. There’s two military operations there. One is an Army ammunition fabrication, where they make different types of explosives - missiles, that type of stuff. That’s on one side of the road. On the other side of the road is a place called NUWC, and that stands for the “Naval Undersea Warfare Center.” Now, every time I go by there I see that beautiful little sign that says “Navy Undersea Warfare Center,” and I realize we’re about as far out in the middle of Nevada as you can possibly get. All there is, is sand and mountains as far as you can see. And this little teeny lake. It couldn’t possibly be used for undersea warfare training because it’s not that big. So I’ve always wondered... And you can look down in there - and it kinda slopes down towards the lake - and you see a couple of nondescript buildings, but nothing very interesting. So I’ve always wondered what that place is. Now over the years, flying for the different airlines that I’ve had, I’ve talked to three different people who have said there’s a submarine base there. Now, I’ve always, you know, wondered, first of all... Submarines couldn’t come up in Walker Lake. It just can’t happen. It’s too shallow. There’s no way they could do that. And, besides, there’s a bottom to that and they couldn’t come out. So these people have been very knowledgeable who have told me this, and I’ve always wondered what the real deal was. So last August I gave a talk at the San Jose UFO Expo West. And my topic was The Civilization on the Moon, when I talked about the civilization on the Moon. And, after it, a Navy guy came up in full dress uniform, young man - and thanked me for my talk. And I said: Should you be here? And he said: Oh yeah, no problem. I said: Great! When were you last down in the tubes? Or I said: Have you been down in the tubes lately? And he said: Every day. Now that’s the key question you ask a Navy guy. Because, you know, the Navy has an underground tube system that goes all around the world, and it’s very, very fast. You can go anywhere in the world in an hour. And it’s very secret. It’s been operational since, you know, the ’60s - and everybody knows about it - but it’s a big, big secret. And it’s a big Navy secret. I’ve known some really, you know, interesting and top level Navy guys, and I’ve never found anybody that actually admitted being down there except this one guy. So when he did that, I said: You know, this guy’s in. He knows it. So I met with him later and he told me a lot interesting things. K: Well, what’s the description of the tubes? When you say “the tubes,” you’re talking about... like what? A high-speed train? J: Yeah. It’s a high-speed train. It’s about the diameter of this room. And they have little cars that you get into and you lay kind


of prone like this [leaning back in chair], and you pull the hood down there [simulating by putting hand over his head and down in front of him]. And WHOOSH! And you’re, you know, anywhere in the world in an hour. K: Wow. J: I talked to this guy and one of the things I said, you know: Do you know anything about Hawthorne? [Kerry laughs] And he said: No. He said: Why? And I said: Well, you know, there’s the Naval Undersea Warfare Center there. [He said]: Oh yeah. I know what you’re talking about. Yeah, he said. The entrance is in... north of Fort Ord on Monterey Bay. [Kerry laughs] He said that the Pacific Ocean underlies California, Nevada and Idaho. And he said [pointing to map of the western US] that’s the channel that goes from Monterey Bay to Hawthorne, and then there’s an elevator at Hawthorne that goes down 4300 feet because the altitude of Hawthorne is 4300 feet - and the elevator takes them down to sea level under Hawthorne. And that’s why the Army base is there, is because they make the ordnance that goes in the submarines. And that’s why you never see, or nobody’s ever seen, any ordnance-laden trucks come out of Hawthorne either south or north. They don’t. They go right down to the Pacific Ocean where the submarines go in and they load up there and they come out here [pointing to California coast on map]. And there’s also... Now I know what a friend of mine was... Scottie Lyon, SEAL Team 6, one of the original SEAL Team founders. Great guy, passed away now, so now I can tell. He told me there was a secret Navy base in Lake Tahoe. He didn’t tell me more than that. But now I see what everybody is talking about. There’s underground bases, Naval bases, that - connected by the Pacific Ocean - that go all over. There‘s some up in Idaho. And who knows? You know, a few months ago on ATS a guy said that his father worked on nuclear submarines in St. Louis, Missouri. So, you know, and he went down there and he saw the lake and everything. So my question was: Did they come up the Mississippi? Or did they come eastbound in the Pacific Ocean to there? So then the question is: Does it connect with the Atlantic? And it’s very possible it does. Two of the original nuclear submarines that were lost by the Navy, as you remember, were the Thresher and the Scorpion. And both of them had fantastic stories of, you know, a valve coming apart, or attacking a Soviet submarine, and that kind of stuff. But if you go into the Branton Files and read about that story, those subs were lost exploring this area here [pointing to map of California to Nevada]. Both of them... the Thresher and the Scorpion. And I let him have it. And of course he’s gone the next day. He didn’t realize, you know. He thought he was going to, you know, intimidate us there. That was really interesting. Now one of the other things I heard about was a computerized battleship. It’s called Fleet 21. It exists. They just finished their sea trials southwest of Coronado. It’s going into full operation now. It’s 600 feet long, and just exactly like any other battleship, except there’s not one person on it. It’s all computerized. There’s a helicopter landing pad on the back, that if anything goes wrong, they bring in a team with nine members, and they go down and they get to the computer room and they fix it, and then take off. But what that allows us to do is make total attacks with a battleship with nobody being hurt. [Kerry laughs] J: The other thing I heard was we have [holding a drawing] what’s called a Fast Attack Submarine. Now, the stuff that I’m telling you is technically not classified, for this reason: Several years ago it was determined that the minute you classified something, you had to do so much paperwork that it became unclassified. Too many people had to know about it. So the best to do was not tell anybody about it except those people that knew about it and not classify it. And that way you can keep it more secret - if that makes any sense. [showing diagram] This is the nuclear-powered Fast Attack Submarine. The interesting thing about this is, I believe it uses fusion instead of fission. It’s only 70 feet long. Imagine a nuclear source that could power that thing within that small a space. [pointing to side of vessel] This is a 12-man SEAL Team Lockout. And this is the submarine. I think there’s about 70 of them now. That’s the one, I believe, that cut the cables, because they can dive down deep enough, get down there and have their 12-man team go out there and do whatever they want with the cables. This thing is very highly advanced. It’s 70 feet long, goes 120 knots and has a nine-man crew. [pointing] The ROV here stands for Remote Operated Vehicles. They’re tucked in there and there’s three of them. One of them can fly. They can actually go up and fly around and take pictures or do whatever you want. Now, you look at the 120 knots speed and say: John Lear, now come on, we know that planing and submerged hulls cannot possibly go that fast. Well, the fact is, now they’ve found, or they’ve perfected, solved, “boundary layer control.” And boundary layer control is that portion of the sea that comes in contact with the ship and creates friction. And what was interesting is... on ATS when I first started talking about this [laughing] they called in the big team from the Pentagon. [Kerry laughs] And this blowhard Navy guy comes in, you know, all huffy and huffy, and: I hear somebody wants to talk about the Thresher and the Scorpion, you know.


B: So it’s similar to the technology they’ve got on the wings of the B2 Bomber? J: Yeah. B: Which missile was it? B: But applied to water. J: Submarines. B: I understand. J: And they make the stuff up in space in manufacturing plants. When the shuttle comes back and when other airplanes... (I’ll show you another picture of an airplane here that was seen over Ireland a couple years ago) ...come back, they’re bringing parts. And they bring it back in sheets, rolls and bars. And it’s a stuff that’s fantastic, and you can do all kinds of stuff. But what the most important thing you can do... Like on submarines, it keeps the boundary layer - that layer between the hull and the sea - about 3 to 5 centimeters away, so there’s absolutely no friction. Nor is there any noise associated with that. So they use that not only on their new battleships, but on their submarines, and on their airplanes. It’s a really, really fantastic piece of material. So that’s how they can go 120 knots. We know that the displacement hull of a boat, like say, the Ronald Reagan... Thetheoretical max speed is 1.34 times the waterline. So we know the waterline of the Ronald Reagan is about a 1000 feet. So you take 1.4 times the square root of that and you come out with about 32 knots. And that sounds reasonable to most people. You know, as aircraft carriers going 32 knots – man, that’s really hauling. The fact is, I think the Ronald Reagan goes about 90 knots. The reason I think that is because the Enterprise definitely went 75 knots. I have friends that operated on that, and they said that whenever they had to go some place fast, they would tell everybody to get below decks - you know, because weather was coming. And then they’d get it up to 75 knots. The reason they did that is: Number 1 - they didn’t want anybody figuring out how fast they went. And they didn’t want to get them blown off deck. Because 75 knots is really rolling - that’s almost 90 miles an hour! And you don’t want anybody trying to walk across on the deck when they’re used to just maybe walking around at 30 knots. And then when you say: Well, when they got there, wouldn’t they ask any questions? No. The fact is nobody asks any questions. TWA 800 was shot down by a Navy submarine. It’s been kept under wraps like that. I often hear people say: Well that’s not possible because we know that Navy guys are the most talkative in the world and certainly somebody would talk. That’s not true. Navy is one of the closest-knit forces in the world. Nobody says nothing unless they’re supposed to. And there’s no possible way that anybody on that submarine would J: I don’t know. But it was one that was aimed at a drone. And when they launched it, the drone was between TWA 800 and the submarine. And for some reason, when the missile was launched it lost - instantaneous, just for an instant - a lock on the drone. And when it reacquired a lock, it reacquired TWA 800. And when it went through TWA 800, it went through first class, you know, knocked the nose off, and caused the center tank, you know, to explode. K: So you’re saying it was an accident. J: It was an accident. It was a Navy accident. They were just using it for live-fire exercises. K: Right. J: And they had done that forever. And that was the fifth airplane - civilian airliner - that the Navy had shot down since 1963. The first one was Flying Tiger Line, who I worked for. A Lockheed Constellation over Guam, where a Navy pilot went up and he was just doing some, you know, aiming at the airliner going by because he had nothing else to aim at, and accidentally let a missile go. And it shot down, killed everybody on board. And that accident was always, you know, “unknown causes.” But it caused Flying Tiger Lines to be the largest cargo carrier during the Vietnam War and the Pentagon to authorize a separate Flying Tiger Airline, which was called Flying Tiger Air Services, to run the extra flights down from Japan, down to Vietnam. I mean, Flying Tigers made a fortune off that accident. And I was in close con... B: Just before I lose the point, I’d like to compare the testimony here. Because we were told by Henry Deacon - now he actually asked us to take this off our website - because he was curious about what had happened to TWA 800. So when he was on the inside, he asked around. He said it was a Stinger missile. They aimed exactly at the drone and just missed. This is exactly the way he said it. He said it was a Navy genuine accident. He said the whole thing was covered up. He said the thing was right at the top of its classified altitude limit - which is higher than is publicized - about 14,000 feet. J: That’s possible. Because it’s publicized at 8,000 feet. And that’s why all this cancelled the Stinger out. B: Yes. Is it possible that a Stinger would be fired from a submarine? I thought this thing was hand-held. J: No, I think the Stinger story and its classified altitude is... Maybe we’re trying to make it like... terrorists fired it instead of the Navy. We would rather have terrorists fire it instead of our have ever told anything. Yes, one person did call his Dad. And that person called Jim Sanders, who wrote The Downing of Flight TWA 800. But that was the only one who said anything.


Navy. Because our Navy just shot down the Iranian ship, so why did they shoot down... B: What Henry said was that it was a Stinger, but it was a Navy accident. J: It could have been. Whatever it was, I doubt if a Stinger would be fired from a Navy vessel. There’s too much evidence that the Navy did it. They did it and I doubt if they did it with a Stinger. B: OK. J: A Stinger has an explosive on it and there were no explosives in TWA 800. There was only the fuel which damaged anything. And that’s for the record. B: Okay. J: Sanders did an excellent thing on that. But anyway, so that was TWA 800. And it affected me directly because what the FAA came up with as an excuse – and you know, this is all Richard Clark’s fault - you know, trying to blame it on a center tank, exposed wiring in a fuel pump. That’s SO impossible, I cannot even tell you! During the time of this investigation I was flying a Lockheed L1011, which was a huge cargo airplane. It had a mammoth cargo door. and I was taking Boeing 777 cowlings from Wichita, where they were made at Boeing, to Seattle. And when we’d wait for this thing to be loading, and we’d talk with the Boeing guys, they were just furious that the FAA and the NTSP were trying to lay this on arcing wiring in a fuel pump. Because there IS no wiring in a fuel pump that’s anywhere near the fuel. It’s just ridiculous. And everybody was pissed off about the whole thing. I was pissed off because the FAA then said that you had to keep enough fuel to cover the fuel pump so that it wouldn’t arc – because, you know, if there’s fuel there, it can’t arc. Like it’s only if there’s fumes there, will it arc. Well, on the L1011 we had about 115,000 pounds of cargo capacity. And if we kept the center tank fuel pump covered, we lost about two or three thousand pounds. And that was the makeor-break. And it eventually bankrupted Kittyhawk, who I was working for. But anyway... K: I want to ask you a question. Did you know Ben Rich? J: No. But I talked to people who did. Now I’ll tell you what Ben Rich had to do with this. First of all, do you know where he was born? Ben Rich was one of the most, the biggest, Mossad spy in the United States. I mean, he got the most classified information. Here’s what happened. Here’s how we got messed up with Israel. In 1947 when Israel became a state, James Angleton was chief of CIA in Rome. K: Right. J: Okay. They sent Angleton down to Tel Aviv, along with some guys at MI-6, to form Mossad. And for some reason, whoever, or however it happened, James Angleton got allied with Mossad like this [crosses fingers] forever. He was the mole. If you remember, in 1960 he was the head CIA Director of Foreign Intelligence and he was the guy that always was looking for the Russian mole. [laughing] HE was the Russian mole! Because, you know, he was so friends with Mossad, he’d tell Mossad stuff and Mossad would pass it on to Russia. So when David Ben-Gurion, in the summer of 1963, said, you know: We have to kill Kennedy. We have to. I’m tired of him threatening us with inspecting Dimona. It’s none of his friggin’ business. I don’t want to hear any more from Kennedy. You kill him. He gave that order to Mossad and then resigned so that he couldn’t be held responsible for it. Mossad then went to Angleton. The Kennedy assassination was not a CIA job, but it was greased by the CIA only because Angleton was in there with his buddies at Mossad. And he’s the one that greased the skids for everything that happened in Dealey Plaza and the escape and everything. There were Corsican sharpshooters there, hired by Mossad. They pulled off the whole thing and everybody says: Oh, they think the mob killed Kennedy or maybe Johnson did or, you know, Castro. It wasn’t. It was Israel. And the reason they did is because David Ben-Gurion didn’t want any more inspections of Dimona. And that’s all. K: And that’s their nuclear... That’s where they do their nuclear/biological testing? J: That where they do the nuclear bombs, with plutonium they stole from us. K: But what’s Ben Rich got to do with that? J: Okay. So Ben Rich was born to a very wealthy Jewish family in the Philippines, and very highly educated. And he was slipped into Lockheed in 1953 as Kelly Johnson’s second-in-charge. And he was there for the development of the U-2 and he was there for the development of stealth. K: There are a lot of Ben Rich, famous... kind of UFO quotes, that kind of allude to things... technology. Right? J: Right. B: Yeah. There’s nothing about it in that book [referring to book John’s leafing through]. That book‘s the inside story about what happened to the U-2. K: I understand. B: And the XR71. K: But he did say... What’s the exact quote? You probably remember it.


J: We have stuff that would make George Lucas jealous. WE could take ET home. K: Yeah. So, I mean, he was an insider from way back, is what you’re telling me. Right? J: Yeah. But he was a Mossad spy, and I’m going to tell you how they did it. Okay now so... K: But, on some level, if he’s a Mossad spy... Because the Mossad seems to be in cahoots with - if you want to call them – you, know, the Nazi, NASA-Nazi group. J: I’m glad you understand that, because when people say: Did Israel have anything to do with 911? I say: As much as Santa Claus had to do with Christmas! K: [laughing] J: [laughing] So anyway... K: So, yeah, they’re all working together. You’re telling me Angleton was involved with Mossad. You’re telling me Ben Rich was involved with Mossad. You know, we’ve got the whole... There’s a whole alignment there. J: Absolutely-positively-beyond-a-shadow-of-a-doubt. So now we get ready to build the stealth fighter. And this was the beginning of the real secret stuff that went on within our government. The Navy wanted a secret stealth fighter of their own. It was called the F-19. And it gets confused here, because people say: Oh, the F-19. That was really the F-117A. They just renamed it. No. No, the F-19 was a separate airplane. They made 62 of them. I had a friend that not only worked in avionics, but I had a friend that knew about it. He didn’t fly it, but he knew the guys who did. So they were completely separate airplanes. At the Skunk Works in Burbank... There was a gray iron kind of curtain that went down at the Skunk Works and [gesturing right] you had the 117A on this side and the [gesturing left] F-19A on this side. They used, both, F404’s, the engines. They used, both, the same landing gear. And the reason was that they were trying to build this secret Navy airplane without any money, using spare parts from the F-117A, so they’d keep it absolutely, totally secret. And you know what? They have, to this day. Because you can’t find a person... That’s one of the big problems I had on ATS. People would come down on me. I’d start talking about the F-19, and boy, I’ll tell you, you talk about a sensitive subject! They didn’t want to hear that. So here we have Ben Rich on page 48 [holding up book] talking about the Skunk Works and how it works. And he says: Meanwhile, the Navy came to us to test the feasibility for Stealthy weapon systems and set up their own top secret security system that was twice as stringent as the Air Force’s. We had to install special alarm systems that cost us a fortune at the section of our headquarters building devoted to Naval work. [Kerry laughs] Okay, now here’s the set-up. All they wanted was stealthy systems. OK. In the next paragraph he says: In the midst of all this interservice rivalry, security and hustle and bustle, Major-General Bobby Bond, who was in charge of tactical warfare, came thundering into the Skunk Works with blood in his eye on a boiling September morning. The Santa Ana winds were howling and half of L.A. was under a thick pall of smoke. My asthma was acting up, and I was in no mood for a visit. But General Bond was a brooder and a worrier and drove me and everybody else absolutely bonkers at the time, as he followed the progress of the F-117A. He always thought he was being short-changed or victimized in some way. He pounded on my desk and accused me of having some of my best workers of his “Have-Blue” airplane – which was the 117A - to work on some rumored Navy project. I did my best to look hurt and appease Bobby and even raised my right hand in a solemn oath. I told myself: “So what? It’s a little white lie. What else can I do? The Navy project is top secret and Bonds has no need to know. We could both go to jail if I told him what was really up.” So here he says: Unfortunately, on the way out to lunch the General spotted a special lock and alarm system above an unmarked door which he knew from prowling the rings of the Pentagon was used only by the Navy on its top secret projects. Bond squeezed my arm: “What’s going on inside that door?” he demanded to know. Before I could think up another lie, he commanded me to open the door. He said: “Rich, you devious bastard! I’m giving you a direct order! Open the goddamn door this instant or I’ll smash it down myself with this goddamn fireaxe!” [Kerry laughs] The guy meant every word of it. He began pounding on the door until a crack finally opened. He forced his way in, and there sat a few startled Navy Commanders. “Bobby, this isn’t what you think,” I lied in vain. “The hell it isn’t, you lying SOB!” I surrendered, but not gracefully. “Okay, you got me. But before we go to lunch you’re going to have to sign an ‘Inadvertent Disclosure’ form or they’ll both have our asses!” The Navy, of course, was outraged at both of us. The Air Force General seeing their secret project was as bad as handing a blueprint to the Russians. K: [laughing] J: OK. So... B: That’s the F-19. You’ve got an artist’s impression of on the wall up there, isn’t it? J: At the end? Yeah. Those are artist’s renderings.


B: Beautiful plane. J: Okay. Now, [pointing to book] see this little thing at the bottom of the page? It says General Bond was later killed in a test flight. Because of the tragedy, the Pentagon ruled that general officers could no longer do test flights. That was in 1984. You know what he was killed in? The story was a MIG-23 - which we all knew was bullshit. He was killed in an F-19 because he demanded the Navy let him fly it. And what they did is, they disabled... electronically disabled... the control system and killed him. And the reason they did, is they didn’t want the Air Force to know about the Navy project. And the reason they didn’t want them to know about the Navy project is, part of those airplanes were going to carriers and part were going to Israel. And THAT’S the story of Ben Rich. B: Are you saying that Israel had, or has, the F-19? B: We believe he’s a good guy. And it’s interesting... J: The F-19. Yeah. I mean, it’s 25 years old. I mean, it’s a big deal? Israel has... Does Santa Claus have Christmas? [John and Kerry laughing] K: Great stuff! Okay. I want to ask you something else also. The General who Bush just fired, or whatever you want to call it... J: Admiral Bill Fallon! I’ve got a whole... I’ve got an Esquire story! When I heard that, I went right down to Borders and I bought that thing and brought it home and read it word for word! [Kerry laughing] I mean you talk about a good guy! You know? K: Yeah! Absolutely. J: Oh absolutely! I made Marilee read that. I said: You read that, because that’s the difference between war and not war! K: Yeah, absolutely! J: I said: If there isn’t any Navy good guys, HE’S the Navy good guy. Now, you know, he’s been involved in a lot of bad stuff. He knows about the alien... He knows about everything. But he was trying to do a good job. So that was a bad... K: So that’s a real red herring, right? J: Yes. K: So we’re on a fast train somewhere right now? B: That’s bad news that he quit, I mean, or is that just his way of... K: He didn’t quit. He was fired, wasn’t he? B: No, he quit. K: That’s great stuff. J: You know about his complete tie-in with Dan right? K: Oh yeah, absolutely. B: It’s interesting to speculate that the reason for the release of the National Intelligence Estimate in early December was to spite Bush’s guns. Because that’s what it looks like... there was an attempt to stop the war. J: And because of his tie-in with Dan, I think he’s a good guy. K: Right. Yeah, that’s basically what we think, but because of what we’ve heard from Dan about him, you know. J: So what I’ve told the guys in the “Qui Tam” complaint... Jerry Leaphart is the attorney; Morgan Reynolds filed it. Judy Wood filed her own separate suit. She’s the one that’s the expert in molecular disassociation - DEW’s. There’s a few people participating, including myself. And, you know, I told these guys... I’ve been following along Morgan’s efforts. And in November I called him to make him aware of certain things I knew about airplanes that he didn’t know about. And he said: Are you the aviation guy? And I said: Yeah. And so we started an email dialogue. And then in December he was going to take over Jim Fetzer’s program for a couple of days and he said: Would you like to be interviewed? And I said: Sure. So I went on there and then he found out just how much else I knew about 911. And then, a couple days after that, he and Jerry emailed me and they said: You know, we’re honored at what you said. We believe, you know, you are very informed. Would you agree to help us? Would you be interested in filing an affidavit? And I said: Yeah! Tell me what you want. So I wrote that 15-page affidavit and ... J: No, he quit. K: I know the story... J: He probably knew it was coming. But the fact that he would actually say this in Esquire magazine, you know - two or three months before, knowing it was going to be published - now, you know, tells me he knows we are fast-tracking, you know, a nuke war in Iran. And there will be no war there without nuclear bombs. That’s a given. B: What would Mike McConnell’s position be on this? J: Mike McConnell... I’m sure, you know, he was MJ1. I think he’s a good guy. We’ve clued him in on our “Qui Tam” complaint because I think he can help. What he’s doing now doesn’t make any sense to the overall program, but, you know... I don’t know. I’m just hoping Mike is a good guy. What do you think?


J: ...and I’ve been with them ever since. But when I was getting into it I said: Now I want you guys to understand this – there is NO WAY we’re going to pull this off by ourselves. All we’re doing is opening the door for somebody to help us. There’s no way we can bring this. There’s too much power overhead. I’m hoping that there’s guys like McConnell and Fallon that will see what they’re doing and figure out a way to help us - because we’re not going to do it ourselves. K: Okay. Do you believe that America is going to dissolve into civil war sometime in the next few years? J: I don’t think so. K: You don’t? [John shaking his head no] K: Okay. Well, what do you think of the fact that a lot of stuff, a lot of government stuff, is being sent to Colorado? I mean, some say Denver is basically, you know... The Pentagon and everything else is moving to Colorado. J: I think it’s Sandia, but I think Colorado’s a cover story. But I could be wrong. I think it’s all being sent right up there [pointing off camera]. As a matter of fact, let me undo this.... [John undoes mike and is now standing across the room] 20 years ago they were having trouble with keeping programs secret by using secret names. So what they did is, they would name a program a name that was common - like the Sandia Mountains, the Sandia Corporation, you know, the Sandia Desert, all that - and called it “Sandia.” So that if it ever came up, everybody would think: Oh you’re just talking about Sandia Corporation. I drove by there the other day. [Kerry laughs] You know, but no, that’s the way they keep something secret. [John pulls out enlarged photo] Here’s the spaceport on the far side of the Moon. And I can just show you the NASA book with the NASA photographs and you can just take your own magnifying glass and see that spaceport. [Kerry laughs] There’s no doubt about it. And you know why? Because the photo was taken in ’68, and NASA didn’t get serious about airbrushing until 1970. So I bought all those pre-1970 NASA photos, um... books, because they hadn’t developed their technique to airbrush... K: Have you ever told Hoagland about that? J: Yeah. As a matter of fact, we were on the George Noory show and George showed him that. And I said: Now does that look like a space terminal to you, Richard? And he said: No, it looks like an airline terminal. [Kerry laughing] Well, look. You can even see the tubes, the tube supports. I mean, there’s no doubt about it. Here’s the other thing... [pulls out another photo] Here’s a crater called Damoiseau. There is no J: So anyway I’m looking to show you Sandia. [unfolding large map] K: Yeah. Please do. J: This is my BEST map. [pointing to map] Here’s Las Vegas; here’s Groom Lake; here’s the Tonopah Test Range. K: Right. J: And here’s Sandia. It’s on the Paiute Mesa. There’s a strip up there and then there’s two new strips out on the dry lake there. And then up here they got a really neat secret base... Ely. Let’s see... here’s Wilson Creek, Lincoln, Welch. Oh, Ely, right out about here. That’s a dry lake there. K: Well, that’s in the middle of nowhere. J: That’s a 10,000-foot strip there. That’s a really secret one. You can drive by at 2 o’clock in the morning and every once in a while you will see the lights go on. Now, the way you can tell secret bases is, the runway lights are blue. [Kerry laughing] J: That’s the Air Force. K: Really? J: But they’ve got these... K: Why are they blue? What’s the significance of blue? J: That’s just what the Air Force secret-base runway lights are ... Blue. So they’ve got this new deal here that’s been in effect for like 20 years. Most of these things are underground. And when a pilot comes for an approach - only when he gets to be about 500 feet - the ground unzips like that [gestures, fingertips and palms together, then palms apart] and he just lands. And the ground... could be forest; it could be a desert; it could be a cotton field, it just unzips like that. He lands. It zips back up, and they take an elevator and go down. K: Wow! That’s great. doubt, you know, that areas like that... Those are all houses, buildings, stuff like that. I mean, there’s just no doubt. So anyway, the other day I thought, you know, I’d just like to see...I’ve got this photo - was taken by Lick Observatory. So I got the other day... I was going to enlarge it to see if I could see that. So I take this photo here [holds enlargement] and I say: Okay it’s right here near Grimaldi, and I look. It’s all whited out!!! Look it... Here’s the beautiful fucking craters, and you look at that spot! Aren’t there any craters? No!!! It looks like there’s a fog! You’re talking about something that really pissed me off!! [Kerry laughing]


J: So that’s Sandia. And that’s why it’s called Sandia. It’s to make people think that it’s just a regular place. K: So you haven’t had any exposure to time travel, to jump rooms, to... J: No, the jump room is great. And the other day Ron Blackburn was over here because he gave my 6-year-old a computer. (And I’ll have to think about whether we should edit this out or not.) But I was talking about the jump room and Ron said: Oh yeah, I know that. It’s jump technology. He said it just like that: Oh, that jump technology. I know that. [Kerry, John laughing] Okay, here’s the space plane that the guy saw over Ireland. [reading from a hand-drawn diagram]: It’s 10 times bigger than a Boeing 747. K: Wow. Incredible. J: Twin tails slightly visible. Engine bay jet black. No nozzles. K: So you’ve never seen anything like that, have you? J: No. He saw it at sunset. He said: Sun angle very low, almost setting. Viewed at directly 7 o’clock, directly above, and it took 7 seconds to get to the horizon. He said: Disappeared over Belfast out of sunlight. A white small nose and no vapor trail, no sonic boom. Demarcation of body sections visible, all dark gray. B: I had some correspondence with this guy. J: Oh you did? B: Yeah, just a couple of months back. And we figured things out together. The thing must have been going 18,000 miles per hour. J: Miles Johnston? B: Yeah. That’s correct. J: These are his original drawings. K: Oh wow. J: When he first called me, he said: Would you have any interest in this? I said: Of course, Miles! Send it, send it! And he said: Well... B: Now what I did, John, was I put him in touch with Mark McCandlish so that Mark McCandlish could make a real professional drawing for him. And so the two have been working together so that Mark can add it to his file. And so those two have been having a lot of fun. J: If I had one planet I could go to, I’d pick Saturn. Because they say that, if you even get a look at it, your mind would be so boggled that you couldn’t do anything for three days. It was great up until the very end. I mean, even at the very end, it was wonderful. And we had a LOT of fun with it. And then, along with that, he wrote a blog called: What It’s Like to Spend a Day with an Extraterrestrial. And it’s the most fascinating space story you’ve ever read. And he said at the beginning, he said...I forget exactly what he said. He says: This is written as a screenplay, but believe it or not, every word of it is true. And it’s about going to Uranus and the people that live on Uranus. And what the buildings look like. It’s absolutely fascinating. So I think Sleeper is 110% genuine. And, you know, if it proves he’s not, I’ll be shocked beyond all possible belief, because everything he says is dead on. And, you know, when I talk about... And he’s taught me a lot of stuff. Because, you know, in the last few years and people ask me: Well, what’s it all about? Well I don’t know... maybe the So I went to Mark Allen and I said: I’d like to see if we can get Sleeper back. And he said: Well he better behave himself. I said: Okay, he’ll behave himself. And that started the I’m Coming Clean on Extraterrestrials. And that ran 250 pages. He had the most views, the most posts of any other thing. I mean it was just an enjoyable... Everybody’d get up every day to see what, you know, the answers were to some of the questions. K: So, is this stuff still up there? J: Yeah. I believe so. And, you know, people... It eventually got very few insults. Of course, you know, you’re always getting the guy who comes on and says: This looks like a whole load of horse pucky to me, you know and I’d handle it. I’d always get on there first thing in the morning and handle the guys so Sleeper wouldn’t have to do it. I found a thread called Are Extraterrestrials Real, As Real As the Nose On Your Face? And it was 108 pages long and it had been closed. It had been closed because the guy, “Sleeper,” had been getting irritated with the questioners. So I started reading this thing, and about page 18, I said: This is real. This guy knows what he’s talking about. This fits in with everything I’ve ever read. I need to talk to this guy. So I finished the 118 pages and I put them in that book over there that says Sleeper. And so I emailed him, PM’d him, and eventually got to talking with him. And it was so fascinating. I said: Would you mind coming back? People got to hear this stuff! He said: No, no, I’ll come back. And I said: Okay, now just let me run interference for you. Don’t talk back to anybody. Let me do it.


Grays are selling our souls, or, you know, doing the... harvesting us. I was wrong. They’re here to do a job. And Sleeper’s the one that told us - and he puts this all throughout - he says: Just try and live your life without envy, hate, and greed. Love your family. He says that’s the only way you’re going to move on. And you have to keep coming back to Earth, you know, and doing this until you learn how to do it right. And when you learn to do it right, then you get to go out and play with the adults. So Sleeper’s the one that, you know... And when I started out... It’s really interesting to see the general transformation because, you know, in the beginning he says... People would say: Is John Lear right? Are there cities and people on the moon? And: No, no. There’s nobody up there. And at the end he said: Yeah, John Lear’s right. There are cities and people on the Moon. It was really a neat transformation. It took a while to do, for him to come out, but it was really cool. K: That’s great. Part 4 ... We found a... what we assume is a fission reactor 29 miles in diameter. You can see the dome there. You can see the support sections there. The air settles into the craters and if you’re in the crater, you can breathe fine. If you get out of the crater it takes a little longer. But basically, the civilization of the Moon starts back at Newton. Somebody has influenced our thought about the Moon since the beginning of our thinking about anything. Newton, for instance, he started to venture and say, you know, that there might be more mass on the Moon. And, that’s brought out in his three books now called Principia. Shortly after Newton died, somebody modified his thoughts to make what is called the Newton Law of Universal Gravitation which is: F = [G m1m2] / r2 ...and he didn’t come up with that. That was somebody else. He didn’t think that you had to specify what the mass was. But, anyway, in 1856 there was a Danish mathematician and astronomer named Peter Andreas Hansen. And he proposed ... He had been researching the times and the periods of Saturn and several other things. He was VERY knowledgeable. But, anyway, he was also looking at the Moon, and he had found something strange about the Moon - that when you did the predictions on where the Moon should be for a particular time, for its particular mass, it was not there. And, so in 1856, he went before the Royal Society Astronomical Society - and proposed that there was a “bump” on the far side of the Moon that was actually... The center of gravity was actually placed 57 kilometers farther out in space than had been generally realized. And, for that reason, he thought that there might be atmosphere on the far side. And, with this atmosphere, he thought there might be plants, vegetables, and maybe even human life. So, he was regarded as a hero and a very interesting guy up until 1870, when a guy named Simon Newcomb came to Paris and told everybody that Peter Andreas Hansen was full of beans, there was not a shred of truth to it, and that, even if he was right about these different times, that it wouldn’t make any difference. So guess who Simon Newcomb was. He was a Rear Admiral in the US Navy and Head of the US Naval Observatory in Washington, DC. The reason people have trouble with an atmosphere on the Moon is, to have an atmosphere, you have to have gravity. And people think that it’s one-sixth gravity. And they’ve been sold that over the years. SOMEBODY has had an agenda here so that we DON’T think that there’s any gravity on the Moon, but there is. And, the way it can be proven is by using the Bullialdus/Newton Law of InverseSquare, which takes the size of the planets - the diameter of the planets - and the neutral point. The neutral point is that point between the Earth and the Moon where the gravity of the Earth exactly meets the gravity of the Moon. Now, NASA has traditionally told us that that’s 24,000 miles. And, if you work out the inverse-square law with 24,000 miles, the Moon does have one-sixth gravity. But, the fact is, the neutral

Start of interview Kerry Cassidy: Have we missed anything, John? Is there something that you wanted to cover that we haven’t had a chance to look at? John Lear: Just let me talk a little bit about this civilization on the Moon, because that’s been the thrust of my... K: Okay, and tell us something about the glass structures that Hoagland is talking about because he calls it “glass.” He says it’s a special kind of glass, but do you agree with him? J: No. K: Okay, and why not? J: Because he’s talking about, I think, the Apollo 14 pictures and his thrust is those glass structures are domes. K: Right. J: And those domes are what contain the air. No. The air... it’s a thin atmosphere but as you know, according to Boyle’s Law, in an atmosphere, the lower it is, the thicker it is, so if you have... And I had some wonderful drawings I posted but I don’t see them here. As a matter of fact, I’m going to try and find them so that you can take a picture of them because they draw EXACTLY what I’m talking about.


point is at 43,495 miles. How do we know that? We know that because Wernher von Braun told us that in 1968. We know that because, in two of the books of Apollo, including Apollo 17 - and there was another Apollo mission - they specifically told, you know, they specifically said: Here we are at 39,000 miles and at the neutral point. So, we KNOW that it’s between 39,000 and 43,000 miles. And either one of those would work out to be about 60–64% gravity of Earth. So, having 64% of gravity of Earth, it CAN hold an atmosphere. And, well, people say: Well, if it has any atmosphere, how does it keep the atmosphere? Well, the same way the Earth does. They have forests, meadows, lakes, rivers, people, civilizations, and it’s on a band of the Moon that’s just beyond where we can see. And I have a picture here but I can’t find it. But it’s on a band. And that’s the same band that both Menger and Adamski visited. I’m pretty sure Menger actually went to the Moon in 1954. They let him step out of the train and breathe the air. He’s now 86 years old, living in Vero Beach, Florida. I emailed ’im the other day to get the exact color of the Moon. And, if you could reach that picture, I could hold it up. It’s behind the cigar box. Of the Moon, the color picture of the... Bill Ryan: I’m sorry John I don’t understand, I’m sorry, which one are you referring to? J: It’s the long picture with the yellow sky. K: Up at the top? You don’t mean on the wall, do you? J: No. Behind the cigar box. B: Oh! Here. J: Yeah. Oh, I see... those cigar boxes. B: I was looking at the... J: No. Just hand me that photo right there. B: Yeah. I’ve got you. I’ve never seen this before. Tell me what this is. J: Okay, this is the crater Copernicus. And this is the same photo that’s up there [points to the wall] but all I did was put the exact color of the lunar sky. And how do I know that? Because I emailed Howard Menger in Florida, who took a trip there in 1954. And when he looked up into the sky, he said that’s the exact color he saw. He describes it as a saffron color. And I sent a number of swatches with different colors of saffrons to him in Florida and he marked the x on that particular color. And so I put that color behind the crater Copernicus. And that’s the color of the sky. B: Why would it be that color? Why wouldn’t it be blue? J: We think it’s that color because, although the atmosphere is not as dense as Earth, it’s higher. And the rays reflecting through the atmosphere will go more towards yellow. B: But what you get on high mountains on Earth, for example, you just get a darker blue. I mean, I know that because I’ve been there. It would be a different composition of atmosphere in order to create that color effect, surely. It would contain different... different gases. Do you know anything about that? J: No. B: Okay. J: All I know is, it’s breathable. He stepped out. He said it was very hot - but not as hot as we are led to believe - and he said he certainly couldn’t stand if for very long. But then he looked up and saw that color sky and now... K: Can you tell us something about him? What is his background? J: Howard was just a person living a normal life and they came and - or THEY - or the Moon people - came and invited him to go up there. He wrote this book called Secrets of the Flying Saucers from Outer Space: One Man’s Fantastic Revelations of Visitors from Other Worlds. He has a website. I’ve read this book several times, as you can see. Here [holds up book] I’ve highlighted exactly what he says what he did on the Moon, where he was taken. There were a lot of other people. He said the places he went... one of the places was like the Valley of Fire in Nevada. He says: There we stop long enough for a guide to open the door and permit us to stick our heads out for a brief moment, which was all one could take, for it was terribly hot outside - like a blast furnace. I was certain that no one could have lived outside very long and was glad to have shut the door. K: So is that maybe a basis for the domes as well, because you can regulate temperature? You can regulate... J: Right. Yeah, I’m sure there’s small domes. I don’t think there’s any like Hoagland is saying though, huge domes all over the place. [reading] Here he says: I looked up in the sky. It was a yellowish color. When looking, I had a queer impression that if I walked some distance I would fall off since the horizon was so foreshortened. There was other groups with him along with ordinary folks scientists, geologists, electronic engineers, rocket experts, astronomers. K: But this guy is, you say, in his 80’s at this point? J: 86. He was 86 the other day. K: Have you met him in person?


J: Not in person. Only on email, and I’ve written to him. K: But, basically as far as you’re concerned, he has no reason to lie. Right? J: No. No, because his story is the same as George Adamski’s and Truman Bethurum’s. The other... what the government labeled as “contactees,” which was their way of saying: Yeah, well, you know, they’re just “contactees.” And I think both of them, both Adamski and Menger, became very important sources for the government. When I first got into this, you know, 20 years ago, people would say: Do you think flying saucers are real? And, I would say: Yeah but, you know, the George Adamski stuff was all bullshit. It WASN’T! It was all real. So was Howard Menger. So was Truman Bethurum, and Daniel Fry. All those people were telling the exact truth! But the fact is, if you’ve been to thelivingmoon.com, you’ve seen the original government papers on who was involved in the antigravity project in 1952. And Lear Incorporated, my father’s company, is listed right there. And there’s a video floating around on the web that shows him at the blackboard teaching scientists at the Bahnson Institute how a flying saucer flies. And this was probably 1954/1955. But, the fact is, we had anti-gravity solved in 1957 or 1958. And we started building our own craft and went to the Moon in 1962. And Mercury, Gemini, Apollo was just a COVER for all that was really going on. B: Now, what do you say about the... all the NASA pictures, all the Apollo photos of the Moon that do not show the saffron sky? What’s going on? J: Yeah, it always shows pure black. And the reason is, they couldn’t show the real color. That’s why all those photos are so fake. That’s why there’s no stars there. They didn’t have much of a choice, you know. They’re trying to say that it’s dark, that it’s a vacuum. Well, first of all, it can’t be a vacuum because Neil Armstrong says he could pick up the dust with his toe. And we all know that a vacuum... that the dust will settle into a crust and you CAN’T pick it up with your toe. And, they couldn’t show the sky because it was a saffron color and that would lead everybody to believe there was atmosphere. So I’m not sure whether Apollo 11 went and here’s why. Now, it may have gone to the Moon... the command surface module... and may have orbited the Moon. But the problem I have is, they only had 22,000 pounds of fuel and they went into an orbit that was about 50 miles by about 10 miles. This would be impossible with 64% gravity. But, even if it was, from ten miles they’d have to go down to the lunar surface, land, and then take off with 22,000 pounds of fuel. I don’t think that happened. I don’t think they could do it. That’s not enough fuel to do that. Second of all, I have a group of friends that remote-viewed Apollo 11. Did it land? And they weren’t able to see any kind of landing. All they were able to see was, it was a CIA cover-up somehow. The other one is Aldrin’s comment. And, I’d just like to read from Buzz Aldrin’s book. B: All the astronauts had some interesting things to say, didn’t they? J: Pardon? The what? Yeah. Here’s what Aldrin says when he’s asked: How did it really feel to be on the Moon? [reading] And he bristles. Quote: For Christ sake, I don’t know! I just don’t know! I have been frustrated since the day I left the Moon by that question. K: Yeah. That’s amazing. J: The fourth reason is the video of the light standard crashing... now – The One small step for a man. Now, that’s been alleged to have been a joke. But, if it was, it was extremely well done and very expensive. My opinion? My opinion is that it was real, but that was during the filming. And I base that on little details like the ladder, like the shadows. Everything about that tape is real. I think that that was a real out-take of One small step for a man. Number five: The Gs required to orbit and de-orbit. As you know, the lunar lander had no couches, had no seats, had no chairs. They stood up. They stood up and they had an armrest under here and one under here. [indicates under arms]. All they had was a little belt that came out from the side and wrapped around them. Now, that’s not even good for a seatbelt. They’re called “pilot restraints.” That’s all they had. And you’re telling me they came out of orbit at 50,000 feet and landed, and then blasted off, with an armrest? No. No, I don’t think that happened. And the other is the different ladder. In any picture of One small step for a man and photos of the Apollo 11 taken AFTER that show a much thinner ladder - one made of tubular, looks like aluminum - compared to the one in One small step that is at least that thick [indicates about 3 inches] and it’s an L-shape. So that’s my take. Apollo 11... I don’t think landed. The others, maybe, but I’m not sure. If they did, if ANY of them landed, it was with technology that used anti-gravity. B: That’s... that’s what we were told. We were told that they had help. Otherwise they would not have been able to land. J: That was the only way they could’ve done it. B: And they wouldn’t have been able to get through the Van Allen Belts. Do you have any view about that?


J: I believe that to be true. The only reason I hesitate is because Bob Lazar told me that there was nothing dangerous about the Van Allen Belt. But what you say about the Van Allen Belt, “Sleeper” is adamant about. He said nobody can get through that. He said that’s a protective layer around the Earth so that we CAN’T get out. The only way that we COULD get out was with help. K: Right. That’s what we’ve heard. B: We were told that, too, from the inside. The same thing. J: And that’s what Sleeper is very adamant about. B: Very interesting. Okay. Now, I have to ask you about the standard rebuttal to the atmosphere issue, which is that when you are looking at the Moon through a telescope and you see a star, it doesn’t twinkle. It’s just crystal clear. It’s like it’s always there and then [snaps fingers] it suddenly disappears. J: People who say that haven’t done that. First of all, if you read V.A. Firsoff’s book called The Strange World of the Moon, you will see that there are many instances of occultation. But the fact is, occultation can only occur... is if there is some sort of dust or kind of sediment in the atmosphere. Here on Earth, there’s all kinds of problems up there. On the Moon, it’s clear, perfectly beautiful. You know, depending on the thickness, you may not see occultation. But, if you want to read The Strange World of the Moon by V.A. Firsoff, he lists at least 14 or 15 astronomers that have seen occultation. B: Okay. I want to check my understanding of the issue of the center of gravity of the Moon being offset from the center of the Moon. Have I understood that right? J: Correct. It’s 57 kilometers further away from Earth than is normally thought. And of course that’s confirmed by Apollo, too. B: That doesn’t sound like it’s enough to make any difference to anything. That’s a very small amount... relative to the size of the Moon, at least. J: Well, of course, we don’t know what the Moon’s made of. We don’t know how much, you know... how much actual weight that would be. But the fact is that the Moon does this... What do they call it? Where it spins at the top? Yeah... What’s it called? [reading] Libration. Another Spaceship Moon mystery is its libration. And libration is the Spaceship Moon’s wobble. And this wobble is theorized by mainstream science to be caused by tidal lock. Tidal lock is a nonsensical theory to account for unknown forces, like “gravitons” to account for gravity. Maybe the Spaceship Moon’s libration or wobble is caused by the rotation of the Moon about the location of the gravity B-wave generator, which is located further away from the Earth, from the center of the Spaceship Moon’s geocentric center. It’s curious to note that one cycle of libration is equal to one period of rotation of the Spaceship Moon. B: Are you saying, therefore, that this is one of the causes for the gravity on the far side of the Moon, if you’re on the surface, to be greater than it is on this side? And so the atmosphere is on the other side of the Moon? J: Peter Andreas Hansen felt that it was on the other side. But the fact is, if there was more gravity further, it would depend on the altitude whether the air was denser on the far side or the near side. What we don’t know for sure is the altitude, the mean altitude. If we knew that, we would be able to tell where the denser atmosphere is. But, in any case, the denser atmosphere is going to go to the lower portion. B: Okay. J: This is a picture of the Moon. And this was taken by Lick Observatory. And in any picture of the Moon you see - any picture from way back when, up until now - there’s a very bright spot up here which is called “Aristarchus.” If you ask NASA, or anything about it, they just say: It’s incredibly white. We don’t know what’s there or why it’s like that. But, in fact, last summer we had an astronomer over in England take a picture and this shows it. We found a - what we assume is a fission reactor - 29 miles in diameter. You can see the dome, there. [holds up photo of Moon showing reactor.] K: Yeah. This is great stuff! J: You can see the support sections there. And you can see the glow blue... the blue glow of radiation while the reactor is going. K: Absolutely. So this is a nuclear reactor on the Moon. It’s visible on this side of the Moon, right? J: Correct. And we’ve always been told it’s just... It’s whited out on any photo you see. They just take White-Out and they put it there. And, in fact, it’s a beautiful... K: So this is really incredible! Did you talk to Hoagland about that? J: I can’t remember whether I did. But I know he wouldn’t admit it. [holds up photo] This is the Clementine photo. You see how it’s been airbrushed? All it is, is just, you know, lines there. B: We wondered whether you had any insights, intuitions, or anything else, about what happened to Steve Fossett. J: I flew for Barron Hilton for three years, both his Hawker 125 and his Lear Jet. And many, many times went to the Flying “M” Ranch. And, so, I’m very familiar with that, very familiar with Barron. And, the fact is that the Navy Undersea Warfare Center is only 16 miles to the east. It is just coincidence that it was only two days after I posted all this stuff on the internet about the sub, the Naval Undersea Warfare Center, and the battleship, and Hawthorne’s tie-in with the underground submarine base, that Steve Fossett disappeared.


So what I theorize is, that he took off and was just flying down there, saw an interesting place, flew around, and the Navy commander looked up and said: I’ll betcha that’s John Lear. Shoot that son-of-a-bitch down. K: [laughs] J: So they shot him down. And they went over there... and they looked and found out it was Steve Fossett. And the admiral said: We made a mistake. I don’t want anybody ever to know about this. Get rid of the airplane and the body. K: Crazy! That’s very crazy. J: But, you know... I say that semi-tongue-in-cheek. There’s no reason for Steve Fossett to have disappeared like that. It’s just UNBELIEVABLE, considering the amount of money, the amount of airplane, the amount of time, that went into that search. How could he POSSIBLY disappear? You know? The problems I have with... You know, when he first disappeared, we heard that he was looking for a straight-away for his car. Well, you know, it’s pretty obvious. You can look on a map. You need 7 miles. And there’s not many dry lakes that are 7 miles long. And all dry lakes are on a map. So he wouldn’t need to fly around to find some accidentally-undiscovered lake bed. I mean, it’s ridiculous! K: Well, plus he’s not going to fly between the mountains for that, right? J: No. And then, you know, we heard that he took his watch which had the automatic emergency signal. And then it turned out no, he didn’t have his watch. But, I will say this, the stories that he was shot down over restricted areas like Groom Lake or Tonopah Test Range are just ridiculous. That’s just not the way it happens. K: I think he was recruited and sent to Mars or something, or the Moon. J: Pardon? K: I said think he was recruited... maybe forcibly, to work, you know, on Mars or the Moon. J: He very well could have been. There’s some people that have disappeared I have some questions about. And the number one guy is Bob Nathan. Now, Bob Nathan was head of JPL’s Viking imaging. VERY well known... always accessible to the public. Bob Lazar and I went down to see him PERSONALLY to ask him a question about Mars. We got badges. We were admitted personally. He told us everything he knew. You know, he was easily accessible. Now, you Google him on the... you Google him, and there’s no record of the guy! K: Wow! J: It’s like you go to Wikipedia and look for John Lear... He does not exist. And if you look into the records on Wikipedia, the only thing that’s said: No substantiation for anything he claimed. And that’s it on Wikipedia. Now, you can find Bob Lazar, Bill Lear, you know, the Man on the Moon, Howard Menger, everybody else, but you can’t find John Lear on Wikipedia. K: So Bob Nathan has disappeared, as far as you know? J: As far as Google. Yeah, I can’t find him. And, the reason I looked for him was because I was telling the story of when Bob and I went down to JPL. The reason we went down there is, Bob just got out of S-4. At S-4 he was shown a picture of what they call “Cydonia.” And there’s pyramids there and “the Face” on Mars. He was shown very clear pictures. And on the pyramids there was no doubt he could see doors, windows, handles, door handles, everything. K: Wow! J: I mean, it was a place where somebody lived. So, our question was to Bob Nathan: Were there any other pictures taken, other than the two that Hoagland and DiPietro put in their book? And he said: No, not that we know of. And so then we said: Well, you know, these pictures were taken at a very low altitude. Was Viking ever taken lower than the pictures that Hoagland and DiPietro have? And Nathan said: Yes, but we didn’t take any pictures from that lower altitude. K: [laughs] Right. J: So what that tells us is how compartmentalization works again. Bob Nathan knew one part of his program, but Bob Nathan is not the head of the program, you know. He just is the front man for the certain things that he does, you know. It’s the guys down in Australia... you know, Canberra, that get the original signals that tell, you know, exactly what’s going on. K: Right. J: We had a girl named Kathy Thomas that worked at Goldstone. And she used to tell us some funny stories, Bob and me. Because, she would get the signals from Australia, and she’d say: We’d be sitting there waiting for Mars signals, and it would be 24 hours and they’d say... they’d send a message down and say: “Well, you guys done airbrushing those pictures? We need them.” You know? K: [laughs] J: So anyway, she invited me and Bob down to Goldstone and we got the royal tour. I mean, we got up in the antenna and all the different places there. It was really great! Unfortunately, she got canned about two weeks after that, and she went to work for Raytheon, up at the test site. And I haven’t heard a word from her since.


K: Oh, wow. J: Now, Bob says he’s heard from her. K: Oh yeah? J: But once you go to work there, you don’t talk to anybody. For instance, if you go to work for Space Command in Colorado Springs, when you get hired you’re told to say goodbye to ALL your friends, because you’re going to have a whole new set of friends. And they don’t want you to accidentally, you know, meet an old friend and say: Hey, you know, you’ll never guess what I’m doing now! They’re serious. They say: Say goodbye to your old buddies because you are NOT going to see them again. And that’s how they avoid those little mix-ups like that. K: Wow. Incredible stuff. B: Are you saying that Bob Lazar was shown detailed pictures of Cydonia at S-4 when he was working there? J: Yeah, yeah, he was shown the pictures of the pyramids and the... K: Do you know WHY he was shown those pictures? J: Part of his briefing. They told him, you know: These are the bases we had on the Moon, the base we had on Mars. B: What does he remember about what he was told about the Mars base? You know, its function, and how big it is, and who else is there? J: Nothing. I’ve told you everything he told me. And all that was, that he was shown the picture. We went down to ask Nathan about it and that’s all he was told. When you decide what you’re going to pursue, that’s all they tell you about. And his pursuit and his job he wanted to do... back-engineer the propulsion. They don’t brief you into anything else. Another interesting thing I wanted to talk to Dan Burisch about... You know, what sold me on Dan Burisch was the DETAIL of the formalities. You know, when you get out of the airplane, what are they doing? Dan Burisch... I watched that video tape. You know, he spent an hour telling EXACTLY what they do! It was so detailed! I don’t see how anybody couldn’t believe that stuff. K: Right. J: I mean... you just couldn’t make that stuff up about being escorted here, and the changing of the guard and all that stuff. But, one of the things he said... he was weighed, you know. They’re weighed in and out very carefully, you know. And what I want to tell him is, the reason that just came up a couple of years ago is because that started with Bob Lazar. [laughs] Because on one of his trips up there, he took that little 110 camera that was just about that big [indicates small size]. And they didn’t search them in those days. And he walked right into S-4 with it. And he had a chair, and he leaned back like that, and he put it up into the leg. And, then he was going to take a picture and bring it out. But he had his problem before he got it out. So after he left, somebody found that camera! And that’s when all the weighing started! [laughing] K: [laughing] That’s a great story! Okay, John, now one last question. You flew for years and years and years, right? As a major airline pilot. OK? So you were up there quite a bit. Did you ever see a UFO when you were flying? J: You know, as I explain to people, when you’re flying, you’re not looking for UFOs. You’re looking at the instruments and seeing where you’re going OR, in my case, sleeping. And then at night, you know, when it’s easier to see UFOs, you’re not looking outside. First of all, you’ve got a brightly lit instrument panel here and it’s reflecting on the window, and there are all kinds of reflections around. You’re paying attention to what’s going on, or, like me, sleeping. And so, it’s very difficult. You wouldn’t notice. You wouldn’t have the CHANCE to notice a UFO. You would have to put your face up to the window and cup your hands, you know, and who’s going to do that? You know? K: Right. J: But yes, there’s twice I saw UFOs. K: [laughs] J: Once was in 1966, on descent into Los Angeles, in a Lear Jet, over Palm Springs on that LONG descent through Panning Pass. And I was descending and I saw a white object going left to right across the front of me. And it looked exactly like an M2-F2 - and that’s the “flying bathtub” that, you know, the Seven Million Dollar Man crashed in. Remember that series? It didn’t have any engines. It had a little engine, but that was for landing. It just looked like a flying bathtub. K: You mean the Six Million Dollar Man, right? J: Yeah. And so when I landed I even took the time to call the chief pilot of Lear Jet, Hank Beard, and I said: Hey! You’re never going to believe what I saw! The M2-F2 passed me today, you know, going into Palm Springs. Only years later did I realize how ridiculous that was! [Kerry laughs] That an M2-F2 would be flying across the main approach path to Los Angeles International Airport, you know. They only flew that thing way out in the desert. So, you know, obviously that was something else. K: So twice... so that’s one. J: And then in a Lockheed L1011, here just before I retired, with Kittyhawk International, going westbound over the Midwest. No, it was just like, south of Chicago. I was looking south... and of


course the guys I flew with... you know, no one was interested in UFOs. They didn’t want to know about it. They didn’t want me to point out any UFOs. I didn’t even bother looking. Besides, I’m usually asleep anyway. But it just happened that I was woken up here this time. And it was very, very dark and very quiet. And I saw this thing come like this and go [makes explosive sound and indicates upward direction]...just way, way out into outer space. And I said: Wow! That was really something! And then I saw another one. BAM, out the other way! I said: Boy, that’s really something! You know, I ought to tell these guys, but as soon as I do there’s not going to be another one. And I’m going to look like an idiot. So, then, here comes the third one... BOOM! Like that! And I said: Well, I’m going to try it. And I said: Hey guys, I want you to look at something over here. And we were looking over there and a fifth one came, and it went BOOM, like that! And both of them sat down and said: Boy, I never saw anything like that! So that was the second time. And it was really great because they both got to see it. There was no denying it. K: That’s amazing. Wow! J: I mean, they were both in a state of shock. K: That’s fabulous! J: And, you know, it was definitely a UFO. It was too small to see what... K: So, what year was that, do you remember? J: It would have been in ’98... ’97 or ’98. K: Oh, not that long ago. J: So I’m sure that must have been our stuff. _____________________ Okay. So people say: Okay, John, there’s flying saucers and Reptilians and secret bases and secret satellites. And we did our own 911 - we bombed ourselves. And there’s wars and you say there’s nuke wars coming. You know, what are we supposed to do with all this? I mean, what’s the point of all this? The point of all this is to try and advance in your... in your life. And the way that you can do that is to try and live your life without envy, hate or greed. Also, to spend as much time with your family and tell them how much you love them. That’s really all we can do. We can’t be responsible for the bad guys. We can’t be responsible for the children that are having so much trouble in the world. We can’t be responsible for the nuclear wars if they are going on. All we can do is be responsible for ourselves. And that’s to live our lives without envy, hate or greed, and to tell each member of our family how much we love them, and to tell them that every day. J: I TRY living without envy, hate and greed. But there are sure a lot of assholes out there so... [laughs] K: That’s great! I think we’ll make that our ending. [laughter] [theme music comes up] Lunch Break J: What are you worried about? K: We’re worried about losing... B: We’re just worried about losing good stuff when we’re not on camera. J: [laughing] because I’m not wired up. B: Because, if you’re not wired up to the mike, it’s lost forever. Then we think we’ve got it, but it was actually over lunch. We have to control the environment here. That’s why... J: That’s exactly right. B: And it’s so easy to forget. It’s like, s**t, this is like something you told us over a coffee break! Conversation Over Lunch [audio only] J: He says: You blew her off a couple of years ago at your front door. She came to talk to you and you told her to, you know, take a hike. I said: Unbelievable! K: [laughs] So, anyway, I called up Angela and it just happened that a couple of weeks later she was running a full week course. The reason I wanted to take remote-viewing was because I’m not the least bit psychic. I don’t know when my wife’s mad. [Kerry and Bill laugh] I don’t know when the doorbell’s going to ring. I don’t know when the telephone’s going to ring. And I wanted to find out if I could remote-view. And the answer was POSITIVELY ABSOLUTELY! I was shocked at the stuff I could do. K: Wonderful. J: And one of the things we did is, each day one guy got to send the others, to “task” the others. And I tasked them Venus. And I


did no front-loading, you know, which means I’m giving advance information. K: I’ve taken remote-viewing. J: I said nothing. And at the end I had to laugh ’cause everyone, you know, when they cooled down, said: Wow! What a place! I’d love to go THERE! You know, because it’s beautiful there. K: OH, that’s great. J: And it was really satisfying to do that. K: Cool. Yeah. Well see, there you go. J: What happens... In the late 50’s we had a couple of Navy people who used a balloon, checking out the atmosphere of Venus. And they said there’s probably an atmosphere, and, you know, for all intents and purposes, probably life there. So, for whatever reason, we had to put a stop to that. And, I theorize that they got some general around a table like this with his aids and he was telling them: So here’s the plan: [Kerry laughs] We got to be sure that nobody believes there’s life on Venus, so I need you guys to give me some ideas now. Let’s think this through. And so, one guy say: How about an atmosphere of sulfuric acid? The guy says: Good, good, I like that... atmosphere of sulfuric acid! Now, come on guys, let’s think outside the box here. What else? Well, how about volcanoes, exploding volcanoes? Better yet, we’ll make a volcano every square mile on Venus, with lots of lava flowing around. Okay, come on, let’s get some more ideas here. How about 90 bars of pressure? That’s good, good! 90 bars of pressure! Nobody could live with 90 bars of pressure, 90 times the pressure on Earth. He says: I think we got a good, good program here. And so one of the captains says: You know, General, I don’t think anybody’s going to believe this bullshit. I mean, how could that all happen to a planet, you know, so close to us? I mean, why would there be sulfuric acid and exploding volcanoes, you know, and 90 bars of pressure? And he says: Don’t you worry about that, son. If we say it loud enough and long enough, they’ll believe it! And so that’s how the new planet Venus was born! K: Incredible. Well, I mean, that’s actually a believable scenario, what you just laid out. B: Yeah, Val Thor. That was told by Frank Stranges who wrote this book called Stranger at the Pentagon. And if I remember right - I haven’t read the book - if I remember right, Val Thor was supposedly from Venus. And that was before they decided to cancel the Venus story. K: Right. B: What do you know about that? J: Only that his - Val’s ship - was supposed to be parked right out here at Lake Mead. And I have the co-ordinates right here. You can go right up there and see where it was. But that’s all I know about Val Thor. B: One of the people who we met after we interviewed you was Bob Dean, who you must know quite well. Wonderful man. And he told us that the aliens who the authorities were most worried by were the ones who are indistinguishable from ourselves. K: Right. B: And who were walking the corridors of the Pentagon, and in government, and in the military and, you know... Walking down the street, you’d never know the difference. Have you heard anything about that? K: Have you heard that? J: There are aliens like that. But the problem is, we allied ourselves with the wrong aliens. We think that the Grays are our enemy. And that’s why we built those twelve... or at least twelve... weapons-based platforms for the direct energy weapons that circle the globe now. And we started in 1968, before Apollo ever went, and we’ve been building it ever since. K: Hmm. J: And what they intend to do - and when I say “they” I’m talking about the Nasty-NASA-Nazis - is, if they can’t get rid of the Grays, they’re going to blow up Earth. Because they don’t want the Grays to have what they consider the prize. They don’t understand that there’s BILLIONS of Earths. There’s billions of Earths, just identical to us, all in various stages of development, you know? And they think they’re going to destroy Earth. And they’re not. Now, in support of that story, one of the first things Bob told me that night was, he saw a message that we sent to the owners of J: Well, both Adamski and Menger... I think they both either saw it or went there. K: There’s also supposed to be some case of a human-looking alien visitor in the White House? B: This is Valiant Thor. This is theStranger at the Pentagon. J: Val Thor? Val Thor. Yes.


the Grays. And it was: Either you help us get rid of the Grays, or nobody’s going to have Earth. And that’s when Bob told me about this super-weapon that we have, that could destroy a continent half the size of South America. And since then, I’ve heard, you know, really knowledgeable guys say: Yeah. We have some really frightening weapons. And I’m not sure how it’s going to turn out. So the plan is, the guys who run all of this stuff are going to destroy... The plan is to destroy us if they can’t get rid of the Grays. And of course they’re not going to get rid of the Grays. The Grays are ALL OVER the friggin’ place! K: Right. J: I can’t say they’re beneficial. They have a job to do and that’s to take care of the “containers.” Sometimes it’s good, sometimes it’s evil. But that’s their job. And there’s nobody who’s going to interfere with that. So they will almost certainly protect us from any kind of disaster that’s going to come along. But meanwhile the Nasty-NASA-... K: Okay, but what about the Reptilians? J: They’re a separate deal, I’m sure. They have their own civilization. They’re probably underground. K: Well, I mean, you certainly know that there’s more than one kind of Gray, right? J: Yeah. There’s plenty of them and there’s plenty different types of Reptilians. And Ron Schmidt and I are talking with a guy, really a knowledgeable scientist, you know, a guy that would sit down and be comfortable about talking about anything. And he told us his first encounter with a Reptilian. And it was so And, what he was told is, if you encounter one of these guys, you drop your hands with your palms open to show that it’s a gesture of supplication. It shows that you’re not a threat. But you don’t do that... you do that. And he said that that’s what you do with these guys. And then they’ll leave you alone. And he did encounter one of these. He encountered one Reptilian in silent communication with one Gray - and just on one occasion, just for a few moments. And he did what he was told, you know. And he said that this large creature was awesome and arrogant and cold, and looked like he could just, you know, kill you with a single blow. J: Uh huh. B: And you know, just back away... back away slowly. And everyone was cool. Everything was cool. And he told us this in a very matter-of-fact way. Does that match what you’ve heard? J: Absolutely. 100%... It sounds like many stories that I’ve heard... believable. He was working across the lab. And he just looks over at this guy and asks him a question. And he says the second eyelid went down for a second, you know! [laughs]. K: [laughs] B: [We’ve been] contacted by somebody who’s a scientist, who actually is a nephew of one of the ex-CIA Directors. He’s a solid, very smart guy. And he went in just for a couple of days at one point to do a particular technical job in Dulce. This is how this whole conversation started. And as part of his briefing for going to Dulce, he was told about what he should do if he should encounter a Reptilian. This was part of the briefing, very matterof-fact.




Project Camelot: Futuretalk III-A Conversation With Arthur Newman a.k.a. “Henry Deacon”
15 July 2008 Michael St Clair, Kerry Cassidy, Bill Ryan in Frankfurt, Germany Henry Deacon, audio only
Henry Deacon: Well, I’m doing OK at the moment. This kind of happened by surprise. I didn’t expect this. I just happened to still be awake and everything happened all of a sudden just. So, anyway. Go ahead. Kerry Cassidy: We’d like to know your thoughts on, actually, where you think the situation is going, and how fast, in the world. Henry: Well, nobody knows for sure because things change constantly, as we all know. We only have probabilities to work with. We met with and interviewed this man in early September, but he declined to appear on video or to have his name made public... for entirely understandable reasons. (Henry Deacon is a pseudonym for Arthur Newman1, prompted by his similarity to the likeable and creative polymath on the Eureka TV show.) In this extraordinary, wide-ranging on-record testimony, he describes his work and experiences, and reveals some astounding information about the coming planned war with China; one way in which drugs are smuggled by the military from Southeast Asia; stargates and instantaneous communication over vast distance; the inhabited planets of Alpha Centauri; chemtrails; rips in spacetime caused by atomic testing, and the damage and danger they have caused; the use of viruses to reduce the world's population; the shooting down of an alien craft by a unit in which he served; and much more – including, possibly very importantly, a confirmation of Dan Burisch's testimony. We believe that the far-reaching information disclosed by this man is highly significant. We salute his courage in coming forward to ensure these truths are known, and encourage and support all others to follow his example. Start of conversation Michael St Clair: How are you doing today? Kerry: What was that article about? I’m sorry, we’ve been in this meeting so we didn’t have a chance to see...
Physicist Arthur Newman a.k.a. “Henry Deacon” came forward with his real name on stage at the Zurich conference for “A New World – If You Can Take It” on July 12th , 2009. Dr Brien O’Leary was speaking about free energy and Arthur came to stage to testify that in fact what Dr. O’Leary was saying was true and gave directions to a college library in California where this proof was located in public record. He presented his US government “Brown” passport to prove who he was. And David Wolcock vouched for him.

Switzerland... intuitively is all I can go by - well, not all I can go by - sounds like it might work if you have people who are very familiar with the country, which it sounds like you are. So I would say it would be a good choice as far as population density and the distance from... wherever you think the population density is not too great. And of course you have lots of mountains, right? So we could talk about that. I’m sure you’ve already thought about all those things. My only other choice on the planet, really, was someplace that I could point to on a map of South America. But that’s way off course from what you’re focused on. So I don’t think I should go that direction. Go ahead. Kerry: Well, would you like to volunteer some information? I mean, I know that you’ve been working on screening some of your computer equipment lately. Do you want to tell them why? Henry: You mean screening it as far as EMP [Electromagnetic Pulse], or screening it because of the new news that you read from the Christian Science Monitor article? Both things are important.

Henry: As far as your main topic goes, it just seems like as soon as something comes to my mind, within 24 to 48 hours for the last two weeks, it pops up in the news. It’s been happening a lot. I don’t... it’s.... which means there’s something very strong happening, something very potent on an invisible level, that’s happening.


Bill: It means you’re picking up a loud signal. Right? Henry: Very, very strong signals on almost every subject. Kerry: Well, could you elaborate as to what kind of - what information - you’re getting, a little bit? Henry: I don’t claim to be a psychic, by the way. It’s just happening. So... [laughs] That’s not my expertise, but it seems to be happening anyway. Well, where do I start? It’s the financial thing that seems to be happening. I can’t even keep a list. I haven’t even been making a list. I was going to prepare something for later, but I didn’t even have a chance to do that yet. Kerry: We wanted to get your advice just in terms of... Certainly Bill and I know what you’ve been telling us for, actually, two years now. But Michael would like to hear, probably, some things first hand about the environment that you’re getting impulses about. So could you tell him the current situation, from your point of view? How soon, how quickly they need to act to make this a reality? Henry: Well my experience is that I tend to... when I’ve said in the past that something’s going to happen in a year, it usually doesn’t happen for a few years - up to 10 years, from past experience. [laughs] So, I’m saying six months, but whats that? That’s just pulling it out of a hat right now. Probably longer than six months. It depends on where you are. And what kind of financial resources, or assets, what form your financial resources are in. Because there’s a lot of instability, of course, in some of the banking systems. Those are kind of unknowns. Of course, your health is your most important asset... I’d like to say that the peak oil thing is not manufactured. It is real as far as I know simply because in 1970... the late 70s... I went to a Q-cleared meeting at the Department of Energy. You may or may not know what Q-clearance means. And we had laid out all on the table the projected date, with graphs and charts, for peak oil as having been right 30 years from then. So, what’s ‘78 plus 30? So, that’s now. And that was on scientific data. That was not political or anything else, you know. That was just fact, from everything that we knew. Bill Ryan: Just a question for you on that. Because, you know, you hear these people, like Lindsey Williams and others... Do you know who Lindsey Williams is, for example? Henry: No. But I can imagine it’s probably someone who says it’s not so. Bill: Well, Lindsey Williams ... he’s a Baptist minister, right? He’s not the type of guy that sort of, you know... He’s not going to make this up for reasons of, you know, just... he doesn’t have the skill-set to do it. Right? Henry: Yes. Bill: And he was up in Alaska and, you know, they said that they found the largest oil reserve, basically, on the planet up there, that was larger than, actually, the reserves in the Middle East. And it got classified by the US government and shut down the day after they announced it. Henry: Mm hm. Bill: So, you know. I’m just wondering what the odds are of compartmentalization on things like this, and actually that, you know, certain people on certain levels, even Q-level, are being told one story and at another level the story is different. Henry: Well, there are two things. One is that at that period in time - the late 70s - we didn’t have the same type of groundpenetrating systems that we do now. We weren’t... Kerry: So the discovery could have been made, actually was made, after you had this meeting, in other words. Henry: Yes. Kerry: But they’ve kept the cover story. Theoretically, they’ve kept the peak oil cover story going for a reason. I mean, they don’t plan to release this anyway, even if it does exist. Henry: Yes, well, I don’t know that it exists. I’ve never heard that it does. I mean, there is a high probability that it does exist. But still it’s not going to solve the converging problems that we’re up against anyway very shortly. Kerry: Right. So could you name some more of the converging problems for everyone here, just to focus their minds a little? Henry: Well, we’ve got the economic problems. We’ve got the manufactured war problems. Kerry: OK, but, we also want to talk... I mean, what kind of planetary changes are we looking for and do you think anything’s going to happen within the next six months? Henry: Maybe not in the next six months, but there’s a possibility, for instance, that we’re going to have a magnetic pole shift very soon here. Magnetic pole shift. I don’t know what effect that’s going to have, except that it could have some atmospheric effects, ionospheric effects, and a whole other list that you may or may not be able to figure out. Van Allen Belt, effects on that. Some of Earth’s protective shielding could be distorted from that. And global shortwave - HF - 'skip' communications may be more difficult - due to ionospheric changes. Relying on satellites for global communications is not a good idea either. That leaves the modern world with some problems as well. As far as incoming - possibly incoming - Planet X, or whatever that people talk about, I for some reason don’t feel too concerned about that - in the next 12 months, at least. I don’t feel concern about it. I don’t have much to go on at the moment for that.


I am thinking of the rapidly growing demands for resources and the collapse or changes of the financial systems, and the various created threats of various wars - created wars, and I just see the population growth rate increasing very rapidly as another root cause in a long list of converging things. We already have a very large city being added to the planet every 24 hours, right? It’s kind of hard to educate that many new people on the planet when the population is growing at this rate. Kerry: OK. And viruses? Do you have anything to say about that? Henry: Well, I don’t know what the current thing is, but I feel that some very simple things can help protect you from those, from the viruses that have been released or may be released shortly. I’ve mentioned something, last year, that sounds really really maybe ridiculous, but it’s Vitamin D3, 2500 IU a day if you’re not getting enough sun to create that in your body. And then this... Of all the strange things, something that Bill handed me that I did some research on, which is this Sodium Chlorite solution [MMS]. But as far as... what do you want to look at? What’s coming? Or what do you need to prepare for? Because there are so many things that are... There are certain things that are converging that are not physical things as well. They’re on a level where I feel and see a very... in the next, starting now, and for the next three or four years, greater and greater difficulty for people to communicate with each other. Not just electronically. But even face to face. [laughs] Because of some... something that I can’t explain in words, that maybe Michael might be able to understand and explain, I don’t know. Our normal senses are very limited - remember this. Most of what IS - is undetectable… be thankful for that! Michael: Yes. I know what you mean. Go ahead. Henry: It parallels a Novelty Theory kind of thing, or a chaotic kind of thing that’s happening. It’s just a breakdown, like a Tower of Babel type scenario, among most of the people on this planet. Not everyone, but 99.99% of us. But unless your mind is very well trained and the other people you’re communicating with or want to communicate with are very well trained, there will likely be a lot of disorientation and interference - both manmade, sort of, well, for lack of better words, artificially created and even more so, naturally created. Kerry: Yeah. Michael and I were just discussing that yesterday. Henry: Because of where we are in, so to speak, space, what we’re traveling through right now, and still approaching, is one of the things that’s causing this distortion as well. There’s several... It’s interesting that many things are all converging at the same time. I don’t really, specifically know why. Michael: I understand you well. I am saying exactly... This also reminds me of having on hand some Calcium Hypochlorite - that's swimming pool shock powder - for water purification. A very small amount goes a long way. And note that the US is trying to stop sales of portable iodine-based water purification systems... their reason is that they say it's used for manufacturing meth-type drugs! I listened to some of, I think, what Michael mentioned, did you not, on the video? But yes, water, you need to know how much water you’re going to need for the people. You need to know how long you need to have this place or these locations or this location. How long you’re going to need to really utilize it, so that you know whether to just stockpile supplies or if you need to be able to, you know, start growing your own food and such. Kerry: Well, how long, in your opinion? What are we looking at? Several years? Henry: I think ideally you’re looking at something like about 5 years, to be on the safe side, five years of living in that type of survival-mode system, you know. I’m talking about once you’re really living in it, a five year period of time or so to getting out the other end. Henry: But as far as planning goes... that’s why it’s important to do the planning/preparation as soon as possible, while people are still able to communicate effectively with each other. [Kerry laughs] Kerry: We’re with you on that. And yes, there’s a dividing line starting to happen, I think, or several dividing lines. Henry: You know, it’s not just the breakdown of the family unit, which has been going on for a while now. I’m talking about just between even the best of friends, you know. So I think that probably we that are gathered here at the moment have a greater chance of communicating, but even that can fall apart easily, no matter how hard you might wish for that not to. So I’m not quite sure how to fix that except to... The strange thing is the mental processes and the mind itself and I’m no expert at that. I’m just learning. So, but... Kerry: Do any of you have any other questions that you might want to ask Henry? OK, Bill is suggesting that you might mention to everyone the factors that you might want to consider for a “safe place,” if in fact we might not have thought of them in terms of... I mean obviously we know running water is one of the things, but you might have some other things you might want to tell them about. Henry: As stated before, proper training of your mind, along with meditative/relaxation practice is the most important “safe place” preparation. Shelter comes next, and then water. I’ve got a massive amount of survival lists and data that not only I’ve created but also collected since the ‘90s at least, and before. And from different sources as well. And to list it all out thoroughly so that you're well prepared would be quite difficult in just a few minutes.


I keep hoping that... I keep dreaming that nothing’s going to happen, but it’s always best to be prepared and not be... You know, like squirrels put acorns away for winter, you know. Kerry: Well, as you know, I think we mentioned we’re creating a website that’s going to provide resources to people. So if you have information that we can possibly PDF and upload to that site, it would be really helpful in the future. I’m just mentioning that. Henry: I sent you a reference to getting free CDs that are being distributed. I don’t know if you’ve seen that yet. I received one, a CD, and it’s basically how to reconstruct things if they should fall apart. Basically the whole thing is technology. We’re relying so heavily on technology, the western society, the first world countries. It’s very, very sensitive to being shut down in a matter of minutes the whole first-world life support system - the eggshell we live in. And that’s why I mentioned EMP over and over again. And now look just what’s come out in the news. You may have noticed, there’s even talk about EMP over America here. But they need to know... The information that they gave out on the news as to what the altitude this would have to take place at is very critical. They’re saying on the news some ridiculous altitude for an EMP pulse source, which is completely wrong, and it wouldn’t work. But the point is, that it's fine in this case that they’re giving the wrong information out to the public. The thing is, is that something like that can be created in anyone’s garage. They just need to be able to have a small plane and set it off and they can easily fly away. Mind you, their plane would cease to function... a balloon, maybe? There’s no real explosion or anything, just a small one. It’s not an explosive device so much as that it gives off a very powerful pulse. That one pulse is enough to knock down pretty much everything in the civilian world. Back to candles and horses. Kerry: When you say “knock down,” are you talking knock down permanently? Or is it a temporary outage? Henry: Yes. Shut down permanently. And this is not like that thing that happened a few years back, that 2000-bug or whatever it was. I mean, we were preparing for that in the government systems, with typewriters and carbon-copy-paper and all that stuff because we took it seriously then. But fortunately Y2K didn’t happen. But this is something that’s a much easier thing for someone to do if they... It only takes an average person to make it happen. So all of a sudden this has been popping up in my mind for some reason and within a few days now it’s in the news. I don’t know how that happened. But what I’m saying is that that means that the grid would go down and pretty much permanently. I mean for a long period of time. Of course, you still have a domino effect on a global scale because you’re talking about all the various... anything, all the various technologies, banking systems, and communication systems. We rely very heavily on satellites for most communications on the planet now. And satellites are very sensitive to these things, except for a handful of them which were EMP and radiation hardened against this type of thing. But that’s not going to be for public use, of course. Michael: Henry, would that kind of a charge fry computers and things that are off, also? Henry: Oh yes. They don’t have to be turned on. Michael: They don’t have to be turned on. So in other words to try to stockpile or guard against that isn’t any use? Henry: Well, if you’re trying to save data, if you have it on optical disk, CD disk, it has no effect on that. Bill: But it would on a magnetic drive? Henry: Magnetic drives, it might scramble some of it. but the thing is, the microprocessors and the memory chips would be fried. And the power sources. Kerry: You also have a way, though, of shielding, like building a box or something... Henry: Oh, yeah. Kerry: ...out of aluminum foil, or something. I don’t know. Henry: Yeah, it’s very simple to shield. But the thing is, without the infrastructure, you still don’t have the internet, etc. Kerry: Right. Henry: So, I mean, you’ve got your local thing to read but that’s it. Or you’ve got your short-wave radio communications equipment that you can also shield or if you have vacuum tube technology, it’s unaffected by that. So that’s why old systems, vacuum tube equipment, is completely immune to this type of thing. So are the older power plants that are not computer controlled. Kerry: And what about cars? Weren’t you making a point about cars? Henry: Well, anything up to the 1960s has a good chance of working. Even the gasoline-powered ones, except for there’s a possibility that - a remote possibility - that maybe the spark coils [laughs] because they will step up the voltages in the primaries, it could burn out some of the spark coils in the engine compartments of some of the vehicles. But that’s, I say probably only in the most intense fields. So just the newer vehicles. But forget about getting fuel!


Kerry: So you’re saying any vehicle made after the 1960s would be vulnerable. Is that what you’re saying? Henry: 90% of them, yes. Kerry: And what about diesel? Does having diesel make any difference? Henry: As long as it doesn’t have a computer controlled diesel engine in it, then it’s fine. So you know, the old Rovers, or the old Valps that they had, like in, I think ir's in Sweden, they made Valps. You can buy those. They would be very reliable. Any military type of vehicle. Michael: The old Willis Jeeps are fine. Henry: So it’s important to have a vehicle that... Or if you don’t want to rely on a fuel, because then fuel’s a problem. Of course I’m running my diesel car off of... I’ve been experimenting lately. I’ve been running it off of pure sunflower oil. And it’s working fine in the summertime. It wouldn’t work in the winter unless it was warmed first. That’s just an example. Bill: You can put some castor oil in there to actually help with it as well. Henry: Anything to thin it out so it doesn’t congeal. But it would be best to have a backup. Animal powered or people powered things would be a good backup. Kerry: Henry, is this definitely going to happen, in your opinion? Henry: Well, there’s so many things converging that the probability is that at least half of them... half of hundreds of things are going to happen. So something definitely very harsh is going to happen. I think that the harshest thing that’s going to happen is not even going to... The harshest thing is not even... Again, the physical thing is harshest, hard on most people. That’s what they fear most. But the harshest thing will be on the psychological scale, not just one psychological thing but multiple psychological things converging on different planes, different levels, you know. On a three-dimensional space-time level and at much higher levels. Bill: You were saying about the different levels psychologically, where people may have troubles or issues that pop up... So can you give a really quick summary of like what you see the major traumas are? I mean, I would suspect at least one of them has to do with, as the breakdown of the magnetic field happens on the Earth, like you said, people start to get confused and that their minds don’t operate properly any more, since we are electromagnetic in origin. But otherwise, what are the other items that you’re seeing? Henry: OK. Well I’m not saying that that’s what’s causing the disorientation, but that may be one of the factors. But really you’ve got the really down-to-Earth, so to speak, factors of financial collapse and crises, and the stressors people have to deal with. And then you’ve got people trying to protect their families and in the process gathering materials at all cost from other sources, including neighbors and other people. Religious beliefs are causing confusion and division as well. Religious leaders are being bought-off by certain agencies - with the idea to help control and manipulate the 'believers'. Having spiritual beliefs is important for many people, but be careful who you listen to... if they claim to have the answers. It is up to you. So, you know you’ve got the collapse, the breakdown, in the cities. Food supply deliveries and such, the psychological part of that. Take some time and think of the domino effect - the interactions and interdependencies of systems. Then you’ve got the manufactured and real threats of wars. And then you’ve got the possibility of a fake - a very strong possibility, very soon - of a fake invasion from outer space menaces that... Like Kerry, I don’t know what you saw. But that may have been an example of one of the machines that was built right here. Kerry: Oh yeah. It had the feeling of that, I have to admit, although it was extremely high... Henry: Yeah. So with thousands of those being flown over cities and highly populated areas, and then using the vast media, you can do an awful lot of psychological damage and control - psyops - to a lot of people. Kerry: Right. But ultimately, what do you think the result of that’s going to be? Henry: Then being able to control people, to maybe put them into... ah... Kerry: Camps? Henry: Yes, exactly. Now, Switzerland... There’s something going on. I’ve mentioned to you already, Kerry and Bill, I think, that there’s something going on. I guess if you live there you probably know this, that there’s something going on underground in many places. Kerry: I mean, there’s no doubt about it, but the question is whether or not it’s a negative something. In other words, I think that’s what’s... I mean, I think it’s a given that there’s development underground in Switzerland in many locations. Henry: I don’t know if it’s negative or positive, but it’s being kept very quiet. I guess we're all outside the loop for that. Michael: What I have noticed in Switzerland, driving in and out of it now for a few years... I’ve been in the US for 15 years and I came back. In the last two to four years, I’ve noticed rapidly an increase in building of towers, radio communication towers. And I’ve heard of people telling me that the mood swings in Switzerland are pretty intense.


Henry: Exactly. Michael: This would lead me to believe that even the Swiss are not above it or below it, to conduct such psychological experiments of how they can modulate the moods of people with some sort of towers. I’ve just noticed that there are a lot of radio towers coming up along the highways and everywhere because I watch out for that. I know what to look for. Bill: And they’re putting up cameras in all the public transportation as well. Michael: Oh yes, yes, it’s huge. So Switzerland is not that great in some... in some respects I’ve found that Switzerland has gotten worse than when I knew it, say, 20 years ago. Kerry: Except for the mountains. If you get up in the mountains, you can get away from all that Michael: Yes, that’s true. Henry: I agree. As long as you’re in a valley area in a high mountain area, but surrounded... A higher altitude area, but surrounded by mountains, you know, on all sides - that would be a good location. But you don’t want to be in the bottom of the valley. You’d want to be like half-way up on the side of the mountain. So, not in the bottom of any valley, but in a mountainous area. As far as being able to shield yourself from something like that, I think the only practical way is to either be out of the area far enough or be very aware of it before you go into the situation. And as far as being able to detect this type of technology, I don’t think it’s practical to carry around equipment to do it. In fact, some of it’s, I think, pretty much impossible to shield yourself from it because it’s operating at, not microwave frequencies, which is what some of the stuff in the towns are using, are in the gigahertz and above. But they’re also using ultra-low frequencies which are, like, close to brainwave frequencies, very very low frequencies that you cannot shield even if you go underground quite a ways. So even a Faraday Cage wouldn’t work, and that’s... I’ve thought about that. So the best solution is to be away from that as much as possible, physically, and also stay aware. So if you pick a location, that’s, like I said, that would be what I would be looking for. Michael: So we’re looking in and around Switzerland. OK? So it would have an area that would also include some of the EU, European Union, places, which would be much easier to access for US people. Henry: OK. Michael: I mean easier whether they have money or not, is what I mean. Henry: Yes. I don’t know. It would be nice to stay out of the European Union, but at some point it won’t matter because the borders will become somewhat meaningless. Michael: That’s right. It won’t matter, but you have to understand that the localities... I’ve looked into this carefully for a long time, OK? I’ve been seeing this coming for 25 years at least. The areas around Switzerland work actually just as that - as areas. For instance, the Haute-Savoie works in such a way that the region of Savoie - which would be the French part of Lake Geneva - and the Swiss part of the lake work together as one area - more so than an area in Switzerland would work with another area far away in Switzerland. You understand? Those are economic co-operation areas. The same with border areas between Germany and Switzerland, or the Black Forest. So you just work in areas that function as economic centers. And from what I’ve researched, the southern part of Germany is definitely the engine, the economic engine, of Europe. Henry: Interesting. Michael: So the southern part of Germany will definitely function for quite a while still. I mean, that’s why, for instance, I was told that in four years there would be not a single car here driving on gasoline. And they’re very aware of what’s going on, and I think, knocking at a solution at a state level. By state level I mean, let’s say, Bavaria, or Baden-Württemberg, or Hesse - those are states in Germany. They run their own affairs, according to how they see the economy and the climate changing. And they are very well ahead of everybody else in solutions in what they want to do in the future. And they are acting on this already now. Henry: I’m sure that.... Yes. Definitely. Have you seen the science fiction movie? It’s something like... What was it Michael, When Two Worlds Collide, or something? And people had to decide who was going to get on the ship to leave for the new planet? It’s an old movie. Bill: Battlestar Galactica had the same a couple of times. That’s a crazy shortage idea, isn’t it? When there’s a shortage of safety, people can’t all come. Henry: Yeah. As far as economic things go, I think... I don’t know how long money will work. And which currencies, I don’t know. They’ll have to change a lot in the next few years, the currencies and their values. But I think that... I had a feeling up until recently that it would be the Chinese currency and some Asian currencies that might hold their strength a little bit better than the western ones. The Swiss currency is a mystery to me. Any usury-based financial system will fail in today’s world. As far as currencies, I’ve pulled out, to some degree, out of fiat currency into of course what Michael had suggested, quite a few years ago, seeing things coming. But unfortunately most of it’s


locked up in dollars and I’m not quite sure what direction to go with that. Michael: Well the best is just to have it in gold, physical gold. And I have solutions here, very practical, in Frankfurt and in Switzerland both, where we can do it really easy. Here in Germany you can go to a bank, they give you a lot of red tape because they want to control who owns the gold. Whereas, at other banks, they are very cooperative and let you have it right over the counter there and then at spot price. So this varies a lot from bank to bank. Those are house policies. Then there come laws from country to country. So there is no homogenized law in Europe about this. But I know where to get it legally without any trouble. You just come here and we do it here. I don’t want to explain it over the internet, OK? Henry: Yes. Are you aware of what’s happening right now, in the United States today, as far as the economic, the banking system? Michael: Generally I am well aware. Yes. The best website that you can check in, Today’s News, is that Paulsen said, and this was expected, that they would take over IndyMac, all the Macs, all of it. They will basically just nationalize it. Of course they don’t call it nationalizing it. They call it... whatever the word. You know, they have a good way with words. But essentially they’re going to take it over. Henry: They’re telling people on ABC news and such to not, please don’t go for bank runs. You know, don’t take your money out, that everything will be OK. [laughs] Michael: And that’s the way to have the bank run happen. Yes. Henry: This is major news. Michael: Yeah, I know. I heard it this morning. I was watching at 6 in the morning. Yes, I’m with it. I was actually watching in the hotel. I have no television. I never watch television, but from time to time in hotels I like to see what the people are being told. And it’s quite amazing to see the version told to people of the version I know. Anyway, there is a website you want to stay in touch with, if you can write it down. It’s the website by Jim Sinclair. It’s spelled www.jsmineset.com. Anyway, that one guy and his team of traders, gold traders, currency traders, they really have a clue and they give very valuable commentary. I’ve been watching their site for about four years now. They have been highly accurate throughout about everything that they comment on. They have the best charts, graphics, everything about currencies, metals, commodities, just the whole thing. Plus commentary on what’s going on and what the media is reporting. Henry: I have it now. I have it bookmarked. Michael: OK. That site is really the one. Plus you can even look at Financial Times a little bit. In London. They are lately a lot more up to date of what’s going on. In the commentary section they actually do let certain journalists comment on what’s really going on, according to them. So it’s amazing to see that Financial Times actually talks in a lot more critical way about what is happening. Henry: I’ve followed Kitco for quite a few years, and that’s about it. So... Michael: Yes well Kitco is one of the base sources of the charts that Jim Sinclair uses in his website. Henry: And gold, in the end, gold may have some other value, but as far as... You can’t eat it or anything, so then comes the thing with the bartering ideas as well if you need to go to that. Unless you’ve in an isolated area which is self-sufficient... you don’t do much bartering, I guess. Bill: Or you create a community currency. Henry: So I guess what we’re talking about is holding value for a future time. Michael: Well, you see, gold - and silver to some extent - both are going to be currency as well as commodity. Gold anyway is currency. But silver to some degree might also come in as a little currency, a mini-currency for smaller communities. Bill: I would suggest that we would re-monetize simply because of the fact there isn’t enough gold.... Michael: Yes. Henry: There’s not enough for the population. But then, that’s the other thing - what will the population be in ten years? I’m afraid to say. I don’t want to say. I’d like to say it’s going to be about what it is now instead of some doom and gloom thing, which is what people are pushing for - a drastic cut in population. There’s a desire on the part of certain organizations to cut the population quite a bit, as we know. So... or we’ve heard. So as far as planning for this, I think to stay focused on finding a good location, planning for what’s needed, making a list of everything that’s needed so that you don’t miss some very key important things. Also, medical and dental help, medical facilities, dental facilities, medical supplies, you know, that sort of... Oh, for those who are on medications such as SSRIs, antidepressants - wean yourself off of them. For those who feel dependent on other powerful meds - do the same. There are many reasons for this. Consider this a priority for you. Take some time and gather a bit of knowledge about plants for food and health. Kerry: One thing that you could do in the future, or the near future, is send us any information that you have, or link us to information that you think we should include on our website for other people to, you know. In other words, as you say...


Henry: I’d definitely order the disk that I sent you in the last couple of days. It won’t take any time to do that. They mail that out. Kerry: So you’re saying that contains most of what we need? Henry: ...ah ...I haven’t gone through it because it’s quite a vast database, a reconstruction database, so if high tech systems - if and when they shut down - you’ll be able to put everything back together again, except in a better way. So it’s something a group, a global group, has put together over a period of time. That’s a start right there. And the disks are being distributed free on the internet to anyone who needs them. Kerry: That’s very interesting. We’ll pass that along to everyone so everyone can order one and so on. Henry: There’s so much. It really takes a... It’s interesting to be able to try to get the people together that you really need to kind of do the planning without it turning into a big mess. There are fear factors. We all know that you can end up with a community or group of people that could... where one might be too dominating, or like that, or... Instead of having a group that just works as a team with no really one strong leader, but just a symbiotic type of... Kerry: Community. Henry: Yeah. The only way it could really work right... Kerry: And not as personalities but more as caring, sharing beings. Henry: Yeah. Each person has something that’s essential and some aspect, so it’s kind of like one body that’s, you know, in a sense, working with many arms and minds and such. Bill: I’ve got a couple of detail questions which I just wonder if I could just ask. It’s the kind of thing I would ask you if we were sitting around a table. And they may be simple ones for you to answer. One is when you said that... I can’t remember the words you used, but you said that the borders would become something like not so relevant, or not so strong, or more permeable or something like that. And that interested me. I wondered if you could speak to that. And the other question is just one for my own curiosity. When you talked about the faked alien invasion. Do we really have that many of our own craft? And you felt very strongly that that would happen. I’ve never heard you say that before. Henry: Oh yeah. To answer the last, the second question, is: we have more than you... I don’t know how many that we have, but we have more than you could... You’d be very surprised. Everyone would be very surprised. But they’ve been going... They’ve been around for many decades, you know, so we’re talking about a long period. We’re talking about - in our era - they were around for many decades, since just before World War II, definitely. Henry: Yeah. Yeah. They’ve just been playing around with it. But the playing time is pretty much coming to an end very shortly here. It’s time that the testing phase is almost done. Bill: Wow. And these are real craft, not holograms? Or would they use holographic technology as well? Henry: Real physical craft. Hologram technology exists, but that's quite limited still. It was John Lear that said... but I’m sorry. It may have happened, but that’s just not... No. Why would other groups that have gone through all the trouble of doing the physical aspect of that whole scene back in September 2001...? As far as the borders are concerned, it’s just that they will kind of become meaningless when people are just in the survival mode and things are breaking down and the borders disappear, you know. Bill: Like the border guards aren’t even there because they’re taking care of their own situation, and everything’s.... Henry: Yeah. The borders shut down, so at that point it doesn’t matter, you know. Just remember - the real problems are generated in the mind. If you can train your mind, you have your island of light - your safe spot. Bill: Got it. Henry: But before that time, I mean, in the next... I can’t say when. From here until that time, the borders are going to... There’s going to be a lot of... much, much greater difficulty in going from country to country. Some countries. And so, as you’ve probably experienced, Bill, just going into the United States, it’s not as friendly an experience as it was. I mean, of course, Germany... the Germans were given some bits and pieces of the technology to put some of this together. Unfortunately, the people that gave it to them realized they’d made a big mistake - and they weren’t so intelligent after all even though they may have been advanced. They didn’t follow the prime directive, I guess you might say, of non-interference. [laughs] Michael: I meant to ask you a question about that. Do you think that sightings in Mexico in January 2005, was that fake or was that real? Do you remember, all these lights they were showing on Mexican television? Henry: I don’t remember exactly that, but I know that some of the things, like the ones that have to do with lights, basically, not the physical things, but more lights, that’s nothing to do with the type of things... That has nothing to do with the limited technology that the governments would be utilizing, so to speak. Bill: OK. Henry: That’s advanced beyond the normal-day human thing. That’s not part of the attacks and fake attack scenario. Bill: But this plan is pretty real and pretty probable, as I seem to be hearing you saying.


Bill: Regarding taking data off the hard drive, are you saying that would be done covertly, or would it be done by saying, Give me your computer, we need to take it all off your drive? Henry: Well, that’s the next step that’s starting right now, is overtly. Bill: Overtly. OK. Henry: Either it’s: Open it up and let’s take a look at what’s on there. Or if they want to they go to the next level and they just take it for a few hours and go through your system, then give it back to you... hopefully give it back to you after they‘ve taken what they need, or tried to take what they need, off. That’s in the Christian Science Monitor in the last 24 hours. Bill: Yeah. We’ll check that out. If you had your data on an external disk in your luggage, presumably that’s something that then they wouldn’t necessarily know about. Henry: Well, if you put it on a CD... Bill: On a CD, right. Henry: A CD is mainly plastic with some foil inside. There are all kinds of things you can use. Probably, what you call it, SD cards, or smaller, mini-SDs. But then that’s... Again, use freeware software that makes the storage medium look like an empty disk. It's readily available. Bill: Got it. Thank you... I think, though, that actually the whole point of what we’ve been discussing here is about that, actually, in my view. Because I think - to that point of what we can do for 6 billion people, and maybe not for 6 billion immediately - but the real power, and this is the part which is I think challenging, is that the power is in organization. I mean, if you look at what we talk about, what is life. Right? It’s an organism. Right? Or it’s an organization or it’s something that’s organized. And that’s something that people, they need help to do. And I think that’s the real value here about starting to look at these projects that we’re discussing. It’s about really helping people to find a way to organize themselves in a cohesive and sensible fashion that will help everyone involved. Henry: I feel like I almost did have it. Just being... I feel like I’m there. I feel... It’s uplifting. Kerry: And please take care of yourself. Henry: Thank you. all of you. Henry: Just make sure if you transcribe - that you don’t add any adjectives to it or anything. No embellishments and that’ll be fine. Bill: No, just straight. Just for a record of all the questions and answers because there’s been a lot of really important information here. And I couldn’t remember it because I haven’t been taking notes. Henry: This has all been a very rough outline, of course. Remember - train and prepare your mind and your hearts - then all else will be easy for you. OK. Well, have a good day, everyone. I’m going to get some rest. I’ve been up for quite a long time. Kerry: All right. Take care. [END] Look, I’m going to stop monopolizing this conversation, but thanks for picking up those details. And is there anyone else who really wants to say anything here besides, really, many thanks for being here in every way. Henry: Getting hold of the mass... being able to use the mass media which most people use - the television - to be able to utilize that tool, is one of the most powerful things, physically, I think. And some of the major networks, apparently, are starting to open up a little bit now, too, and not be so conventional, which is a little bit promising. Anyway, I don’t know what to say... Kerry: Well, actually Henry, I think you’ve said quite a bit, and we appreciate it a lot. Henry: Well thank you for letting me be there with you, except I didn’t get to have anything to drink. [laughter] Michael: Well thank you very much, OK? And you’re welcome here.



Project Camelot: George Green Telephone Interview Transcript
2 September 2008
Let me explain how this works. Let’s say that the government issued a Promissory Note, or a bond, in effect. It was a one-year US Treasury note. And they also issued a 5-year Treasury note. The 5-year notes don’t even count as debt until five years. So what is going to come online is all the short-term paper that’s happened in the last 6 months. As you know, the government came forth with 60-day notes, 90day notes. They all come to a head on September 30th. That’s the point where ... not only September 30th from that date ... but it also is the escalation of all of the adjustable-rate mortgages in the United States, too. So that’s gonna accelerate the decline in the real estate, because peoples’ interest rates are gonna go up to the current rates, which are roughly around 7 to 7.5 percent. K: OK. So what does that mean, though? I mean, from your vantage-point, are we talking about one day in which everything crashes? Or are we talking about sort of an ongoing scenario that’s already started a while back? G: No. What it amounts to is an ongoing scenario. They’re not gonna crash everything on that day. They’re gonna try to roll over the debt into the next year. But what happens on September 30th, they gotta come clean with all the debt that they have because they’re gonna roll it over. In other words, it’s like, what the government’s trying to do now is sell our debt, as you know, to a lot of foreign countries. And so are businesses doing the same thing, trying to get rid of their obligations they have here. That, you know, is all the unwinding of the real estate empire, as we talked about. And what does happen at this minute, because September 30th is that important date, is all of these debts that are gonna be set up are gonna fall on the hands of the new President, whoever we have. You know, I might have told you before, the Rockefellers want Obama in. So what we have to look at is, then, what is going to occur with the rest of the world? And if the world looks at how much debt has been put into motion, and we’ve exported all of our jobs, then the escalation of the collapse of the dollar will come in, even though the Feds themselves are advancing over 2 billions dollars a day to keep this thing afloat. And the “Plunge Committee”, which is 8 members of the Federal Reserve on the floor of the Exchange, are the ones that are manipulating the market on a world basis right now. And most of the other countries are well aware of this, Kerry. K: Well, this is outrageous. One of the things that Ben Fulford is going to be saying, or has actually published in a Rense article – I don’t know if you’ve heard it – is that the money has to go back to what is so-called “rightful owners”. And the cabal that is

A 35 minute telephone interview in which George discusses the economy, the Russian military, the probability of war with Iran, and the need for The Ground Crew to pull together and get organized for difficult times ahead. Recognizing that things are moving fast and changing almost daily, George has asked us to phone him in a few days' time after he's had a chance to talk further with some of his own insider contacts in Washington and elsewhere to discover more about possible and probable covert plans. Start of Conversation Kerry Cassidy: So, George, it’s great to talk to you. How’re you doing today? George Green: I’m doing fine, thank you. K: This is a Project Camelot phone call with George Green. And we want to update everyone on what’s happening, according to George, who’s always got his finger on the pulse of, certainly the economic situation, and sometimes even the spiritual. So George, can you tell me what is going on? We’re going to do a follow-up call here with Benjamin Fulford in about a day or so. And he’s making statements about September 30th being some kind of very important day in which the US is supposed to come clean on what they owe... and G: Well, September 30th ends our fiscal year. The government declares all kinds of numbers to everybody, like what their debt is. But they only tell you what is due this year. So you only have, as we are speaking, only 28 or 29 days left to this month. On the 30th, the next day begins the fiscal year of next year and that will show some of the debt.


basically behind the scenes running the world is asking for the US to come clean on their debt on September 30th? If they don’t, they’re threatening to impose martial law on the US and launch WWIII. Now, does this sound logical? Or is this ... G: Well, let’s come to what martial law is. Number one, we have a major problem that’s happening. Let’s take California, for instance. They’ve got the state... the Governor over there has put everybody on minimum wage and put a freeze on new hiring, because they don’t have a budget. Well, when it comes down to the United States, our military is based on having money into the budget. Well, if Congress doesn’t declare money for the military to operate, obviously we have to go someplace. Now, if he calls on a national emergency, that’s supposing that everybody across the United States, all the military people, will stand up. But if they’re not getting paid, what do you think’s gonna happen? Massive chaos, Kerry. And that’s what we’re looking at. The people that started the militia movement several years ago across the United States... most of those people have gone by the wayside, because there’s nobody out here to stand up for our country. Now, you’re talking about what could occur? I mean, why did they build these enemy prisoner of war camps? Why are the UN troops all over the United States? And they’ll probably be activated to act as the police for what you’re talking about right now. If they could do it. My feeling is, because of what the Bank for International Settlements, which is run by the Rothschilds -- it’s the 13 families control the world’s money -- got permission and got it in writing from Bush, allowing them to audit the Federal Reserve. Now, that event will occur as soon as Bush gets out of office. That means anytime after November, frankly. So I don’t think September 30th is gonna cause a big meltdown. I am concerned about the first 90 days of next year. And then the Rothschilds will find out how much money has been gone ... because it’s a money thing with them. You know, it’s their ego. They’ve allowed this Federal Reserve franchise to basically create money out of thin air and encumbered the entire world. The whole world’s involved with this meltdown. K: OK. Well, do you see something happening? Because we’re getting a lot of our sort of behind the scenes, black project, witnesses coming forward to us and saying something is set to happen in October. Maybe even the first ten days. G: Well, that’s a possibility and I think more likely is that we’re gonna get the war started against Iran. Our military is all building up right now to go after Iran, this so-called nuclear thing, in order to cause this unrest. Meanwhile, the Soviets have sent -- and this is just in the last two days -- have sent over their nuclear scientists. And the Soviets also signed a 2 billion dollar deal with India to provide them with the new long-range missiles that they have over there. So this is going to be a real unwinding in the next 30 days, frankly. I would rather have this conversation this coming Friday because I have some people inside, you know, inside the Beltway, that would be able to bring me up to date. Because everybody’s pulling their hair out, frankly, in Washington; they don’t know what’s happening. K: Well, what about China? I mean, we’d be happy to talk to you this Friday, or next week, whatever works for you. But what about China? Because we understand that China and Russia are doing war games. G: That’s right. Exactly. Russia and China are both doing exactly that. And what is becoming is, the United States is notifying everybody over there they want to put all of their missile sites surrounding Russia. And, of course, Putin, et al, are saying, No we’re not gonna do that. And they’re warning everybody, you know. Putin has already warned Bush and stuff: You do that, and... Russia’s on high alert right at this minute, all over the place. K: So, do you think that we’re going to go to war before the election? G: It makes a lot more sense to do that and then they’d have a spillover, then, to McCain, etc. But then also, in that case, if they get the war going, then the repercussions go where they could suspend the Constitution. We wouldn’t have another election. You’d have Bush out there, king of the day. K: OK. How much chance do you think that’s going to happen? G: I don’t ... well, that’s a possibility. That’s under the FEMA rules. Immediately, if we have any kind of national emergency, i.e., an earthquake in California, or we have a war going on, it’s his prerogative to call a national emergency and suspend the Constitution. For the first 30 days, he’s in control. Then after that there’s a UN mandate that the UN takes it over. So we would be controlled by the UN, the head of the UN. That brings it in to... the second-incommand at the United Nations is, and always has been, a Russian. K: So what would that mean for the US? Are you talking about Russia? I mean, if the UN is in control and a Russian’s in control of the UN, then [Russia] controls the US? G: Yeah. What it comes back down to is, the New World Order is nothing more than a socialist dictatorship controlled by the small inner controlling group. And they have plans to issue a New World currency, a New World everything, ‘cause that’s ... even, you know, the Georgia Guidestones is evidence of that. And if you talk to people overseas, they’re all aware of it. I just had a phone call that just came in within the last half hour from Holland. And they’re all concerned because Russia now is


threatening to, you know, knock off all the oil, and all the energy supplies to Europe if they don’t bend. Now, that could cause major calamities. K: Right. And Europe just kind of gave in just now, saying they’re not going to impose sanctions, isn’t that right, because of the gas? G: That’s right. I mean, what would you do, if you knew your energy situation was going down? Well, that doesn’t go well for the planners behind the scenes, because they’re got to get WWIII going. Because behind all of this is the population increase on the planet. It’s all part of their population-reduction scheme. And control of the populace. And by all of the money. Look at all of the jobs and everybody that’s been exported out of the United States. They admit that roughly 90 percent of the corporations in the United States don’t pay taxes because they’ve exported all their jobs. I mean, even what I call a stalwart company like Hershey candy has just exported its company to Mexico for production of Hershey bars. So you’re looking at the demise of the United States. What are we gonna produce and how can we work on some kind of a trade? And what system’s gonna happen? The only thing they can do right now, as maybe Benjamin’s gonna talk about... because we have a bankrupt currency. The rest of the world knows it. The only thing that we’ve been doing is using our so-called strength against all these people, and say Hey, you’re gonna do it or we’ll attack. Well, unfortunately, Russia has enormous nuclear capability and we know it. K: So is going to war with Iran basically, for all intents and purposes, going to war with Russia? And some people say that the reason... because of that, we’re not actually going to do it. G: Well, don’t count on it. Remember, they’ll have somebody else go against Iran. And probably, because of the different threats, they might have Israel, which... its whole military is our equipment, so you know that if they go after ’em, it’s ours. And we’ve agreed by our various treaties with Israel that if they go after something, we’ll support ‘em in their efforts. So automatically we’re drawn into it, no matter what happens. K: But you must... I mean, you have lots of secret contacts. I mean, to be honest, I don’t know if you can come out and say it, but you must have been told that certain things are under way. G: Well, the information that I have, Kerry, right now, is that their WWIII is still in the planning right now and I think Benjamin will say it. I was expecting them to have something going before the end of September, even before September 30th. The fiscal year thing is just something that most people won’t be aware of, because they don’t understand money anyway. Even the World Bank can’t give you a definition of what money is. So if they can’t tell you, the International Monetary Fund can’t tell you what money is and the World Bank can’t tell you -- and that’s by their own books, and I have them -- then we have a question as to what is this game that we’re all playing and how do we wake people up to what’s happening? And they’re under total control now. Everybody’s under total control of just a few people up here that are just running our country. And this election farce is exactly what it is. It doesn’t make any difference who we get up there because the ant-hill is still there. The heads of the ant-hill are still... they can’t do anything more than what the rest of Congress can allow them to do. K: So who is behind the scenes? I mean, Benjamin Fulford is basically saying that China is going to create what is a One World government and that they will be put in place by 2020, and that they’re... he’s actually saying they’re a beneficent ruler. I find that extremely hard to believe. But at any rate, what do you feel about China? We’ve got Henry Deacon, on the other hand, saying that China and the US are actually behind the scenes working together on all this. G: China? I have their military documents. And they want the West to go ahead and get on with this war. And they’re already mapping out... remember, they have agreements with Canada, so they get all their food up there. They worked out this ahead. And what they’re saying behind the scenes is, Look, it’s 5,000 years -it’s our turn to rule the world. But they want to get the West to go ahead and do its fighting with Russia because we’re the two major nuclear powers. But the head of China told Bush, he says, You don’t know how many nuclear weapons we have. Which is true. And so you have to look at that same thing. Now, we know what Russia has because our engineers assisted Russia in improving all of their technology in the last few years. So that’s... they’re way ahead of us, frankly, about ten or eleven years, on the nuclear stuff. They have the best space program. Their space vehicles go up and rescue our astronauts if they get lost up in space. So people have to come to understand. It’s, you know, less in population. They have problems over there. There’s no doubt about it. There’s more billionaires in Moscow than any other city in the world right now. So what we’re looking at is, what’s really happening? And what play is happening that the American people can recognize and look at? And now the American people are being, frankly, strangled to death by all the high costs. And yeah, oil is down a little bit. But you know what? OPEC had their meeting and they said they’re not gonna let it go below $100 a barrel. Well, my sources are saying production cost, the actual physical production cost right now, is like $80 a barrel. And it’s not that we can’t get more oil, but it costs more to get it out of the ground. That’s the problem. We’re gonna be stuck with these prices. We have oil right now, which is further causing the problem all the way down to the foods we have in the United States. Ninety percent of the cost of the vegetables in the stores right now is due to energy.


K: OK. So are we looking at food shortages going into October and November? Or is this something down the line next year? G: I think we’re gonna have food shortages right away, and you’re probably looking at October and November. And look at the prices of stuff right now. It’s almost doubled in price. And I talked to the owner of a whole chain of supermarkets and he’s saying he can’t guarantee prices past this month, September, he said, because of what they’re adding, all these fuel charges and excess things that’re happening all the way around. And look at the airlines. They’re cutting down on all their flights. Even though they’re still going, they’re still cutting down on the flights to different places. K: OK. Well, do you think that the Japanese... according to Benjamin, Japanese gold is going to flood the market. Have you heard that? G: No. I haven’t heard about that. There’s only so much gold out here. And the problem is the derivative market, people buying on options. There’s so many shorts by the three major banks right now, they’re gonna have to cover themselves right now. So even though gold is down at this minute, it’s what I call an opportune time to look at it. It may go down a little bit more. But it’s gotta come back up again, because it’s one of the world currencies. I mean, we can play with the Japanese yen or the Swiss franc or all the rest of ‘em, but basically gold and silver are storages of wealth. Silver has more advantages because it’s used in medicine; it’s used in a lot of things, you know, in the electrical industry, more than gold is. But at this minute, from the historical standpoint, gold is still gonna be a place, like I say, for the storage of wealth. And I think you mentioned the French coming out with their new coins. Well, the French have always had gold coins but the world hasn’t been paying much attention to ‘em right now. But I guess the French are gonna start issuing ‘em too. But that has to come right out of their treasury. It’s like our gold coins, the American eagle. We’re not making ‘em right now. That’s because of the availability of gold. So where is all this gold? When I go out and try to buy some gold right now, there’s a wait for me to get it, a couple weeks at least, to get ahold of some pieces of gold. That’s telling me that there’s something wrong. If the world gold has this much... Now, I know that a couple tons of gold was moving between the major banks, and that’s how they keep track of “arms and drugs”, that it’s moving, because that’s the element that they use for payment. K: Well, isn’t it possible that they’re actually, you know, buying up the gold right now because they’ve driven the price down so low, so they’re hoarding it? G: No. No. They can’t. We’re having the conference here in about two weeks of all the major mining companies. I’m gonna be attending that. That’s the silver conference and the gold and silver miners of the world. Forget about Japan saying OK, we had... there’s a lot of people that say that Japan got all the gold that went over to the Philippines. But that’s not true. Some of it went that way but others went into other peoples’ hands. But we’re not creating it. You know, we’re getting gold out of the ground right now. They’re using it all. But there’s still not enough, according to what they’re saying, that’s gonna make a big difference when you come down to physical gold. Where the problem is, there’s so much paper gold. That’s all the options on the market and the... even Kitco, and Monex, and all the rest of them, if they issue paper, doesn’t necessarily mean that they own it because they buy an option or a position in the market. So that’s where the problem comes in on the big central banks when they tell and say, Hey, we’re gonna short gold. In other words, they’re gonna sell gold that they don’t own, hoping that they’re gonna buy it. And that’s what the market is right now, hoping they’re gonna be able to buy this back later. But there’s no gold that’s physically available in any quantities. I mean, I’m sitting here trying to buy a half-a-million dollars worth of gold right now. You know what I got offered? Sixty thousand dollars’ worth! [Kerry laughs] And this is in the gold market! Seriously. K: So what’s going to happen to that? Is gold going up in price? G: Oh, it’s gonna turn back around again. It’s another one of these things -- we’ll plunge it down because of the paper market, again. That’s where the option markets are killing all of the commodities. Not only that, it’s oil, corn, all of the things that the speculators that are having money -- what I call the greedy people, that all they want to do is make money on peoples’ ... What’s happening? In other words, if you can get a loaf of bread for a dollar and we can tell you that we’re gonna guarantee you that you can get that thing for a dollar in a year... and they do this by the options back to the farmers. And the farmers need some money, so they get advances against these things. It’s all paper. Well, the paper shuffle, because of what has happened to the real estate empire, is all coming apart, and it’s all coming apart at what they call the end of the fiscal year, which is also affecting the stock market. So the stock market, then, is gonna have to come up to bat and tell people what’s really going on. Kerry, here’s the situation. Let’s say you had a hundred shares of IBM today. I’m just using that as an illustration, right? OK. You bought a hundred shares, or you had a hundred shares you wanted to sell. Either way, it didn’t make any difference. When you sold those shares, do you think that that determined the price of all the other 20 million shares that was outside? That’s what it did, though. In other words, all you need is a few shares of stock to be traded at some figure and they arbitrarily then say all the rest of


them are worth that. And that’s all gonna be coming unraveled this next year. Because, what is the real worth of a company? K: OK. So, are we talking about a stock market crash a la 1929 or worse? G: Worse. K: Worse. I mean, when? When are you saying? G: Well, that could come up at any time, because I’m concerned that when the rest of the...I mean, look, I don’t know why China and Japan, which themselves... the two of them together own, what, about 2.5 trillion dollars of our debt, right? If they take the dollar and they’re trying to figure a way to move this piece of paper that is Monopoly money into something that’s real... Well, they’re finding out that the stock market’s not real. People that are in the stock market right now... I mean, in real reality, 60 percent of all stocks that are traded right now are in mutual funds or are peoples’ retirement accounts. Sixty percent. And they don’t have any voting rights. So now we have the traders playing within a small range. And people like David Rockefeller, between his trust and his banking connections, own 4.5 percent of 90 percent of the world’s corporations. Now that’s kind of... If you look at the interlocking board of directors of the, you know, the major people that we’re looking in the world, you find out that they’re all connected in some way. So they’re manipulating the whole game to keep themselves alive. They could care less about the people on the street. It’s only themselves and their assets. But they’re getting really killed right at the moment because their assets are coming apart. K: OK. So it’s a pretty dire story out there. G: It’s gloomy. It’s very gloomy. K: Can I ask you something? We’ve been also told that there could be what’s called a “false flag alien invasion” scenario in the wind for some time, possibly October, maybe next year. Have you heard anything about that? G: Oh, I’ve heard about that. But the ET connections I have say that they’re not gonna be invading us at all for some time and that cycle of the so-called invasion, or making themselves available, is probably four years out. You know, the 2012 scenario. K: But the fake alien invasion. In other words, your ET contacts are telling you that they’re not even going to do a fake alien invasion? Or they are? G: No. Well, the aliens aren’t gonna do it. If our government... K: I mean the government. G: I don’t think they’re prepared for that right now. However, the other night... it was interesting. I think it was NBC had a feature And radiation... I’ve got a doctor that’s gonna be giving me a bunch of information on what the radiation is doing. Well, even the radiation because of the depleted uranium that’s in Iraq, how it’s affecting people over here. And we’re getting that radiation in the air that’s going around the planet right now. K: Yeah, right. It blows up to Europe, I understand. G: Yeah, Europe. And it’s coming with all our military troops that are coming back. And their children they’re having now are being deformed. I think you know about that. There’s videos and stuff out on that. We published a book. It’s called Bringing the War Home, which goes into all the biologicals and uranium things that have happened. K: Wow. OK. We don’t want to keep you for a real long time here. I know you’ve got tons of stuff you’re doing. But Bill has a few questions, don’t you Bill? Bill Ryan: I do. Thank you. I’ve been listening to this in the front row with a great deal of interest, and I’ve got a few questions. Let me fire them at you in a little agenda, and I’ll remind you of them later. for a whole hour on ETs and spacecraft. And they’re all over the planet right now. I mean, we’re kind of being visited by a lot of people. They want to see... the extraterrestrials want to see what we’re doing. Those scenarios, though, that are done behind the scenes, those are... again, we’re being monitored by the ETs. The information that I’m getting from them is basically that the bad guys on the planet have won at this point and we’d better get together with other people of like minds and get into small cities. Actually, get on an Indian reservation, because they know how to get themselves going. And eventually at some point the northern hemisphere is gonna be a nuclear wasteland. K: So that’s what you’re getting. That’s unequivocal? G: I got that from the ETs themselves, that they’ve advised... K: Wow! G: They said at some point, because we will have a nuclear... because the winds go from the North Pole to the Equator, Kerry, and they don’t spill over to the southern hemisphere. K: Well, what about places like Europe and, you know, the rest of the world? G: We’re talking about the whole northern hemisphere. The radiation winds will be going all the way around. But I think that’s a little ways out yet, I’m hoping. Kind of like the two nuclear missiles that were dropped last year, you know, in Syria, basically. The Israelis sent up two planes. These were low-yield, what they call “bunker-buster” nuclear bombs. If they go after Iran, they’re gonna use some bigger ones to go after this stuff, and that’s gonna affect things.


Right at the start you made a reference to the atmosphere in Washington, implying -- I can’t remember the words you used -there was a lot of concern and confusion. And it would be very interesting to hear a little bit more about that. We’d like to ask about your personal plans, if you’re willing to disclose them. Because a lot of people are watching to see whether you’re, so to speak, as good as your word and heading off the Ecuador and staying there because of all the reasons you explained in our earlier interview. We’d love to know who’s going to be the next President of the United States. And we wondered if you had a final message for the Ground Crew. And so, that’s my little agenda there. What’s happening in Washington as far as your sources are able to tell you -- the guys in the agencies, the good guys in the military? What are they concerned about and what are they worried about now? G: Most of our military are doing their duty for our country, as you know. But there’s a lot of them that have their agenda because they have this military... there was talk about having a military coup. You probably heard about that last year. Just taking over our government and making it a military dictatorship, if you want to look at it that way; or re-plan the whole Constitution and get things going. The congressmen in Washington are basically manipulated by the Council on Foreign Relations and the Trilateral Commission, all these people. It’s all the money. It’s kind of like Aaron Russo’s movie, you know, From Freedom to Fascism. The congressmen are... the political parties are basically small corporations. These small corporations have put these people into office, like the new lady from Alaska which, you know, she comes from a town of what, 5,500 people? And this is what they’re bringing up. Well, that’s where the confusion is that’s coming up now. Who has put her into that position and what is the reason behind? And I can’t... like I say, it’s a little early in the day for me to find out. And I tried to call earlier today for my inside sources to come forth with it. But they happen to be in Congress, I mean in meetings, right now. What I’m getting there is, I won’t get any information there until Friday or so. B: We’d love to talk to you then. G: I’ll let you know what they’re talking, you know, behind the scenes, not what’s in the paper, because you know the papers just put out what they’re supposed to. K: Well, have you got any, you know, intuitions? Or have your ET contacts said anything about Palin in particular? G: No, they haven’t said anything about Palin at all. My other sources are just... what I’m getting from Europe as well as other people calling me, they can’t believe that they put somebody that had no experience whatsoever. And then, like I am... I remind them that when I was asked to be the finance chairman for Jimmy Carter, he was a one-term governor in Georgia. So you have to look at these things. The experience is not necessarily... as what is their agenda and what have they agreed to do behind the scenes? And I’ve been trying to find that out since they put her out there, because it’s obviously... nobody knows all the facts about this game yet. And I expect that a lot of it will be coming out in the next ten days. B: If you were a betting man, would you bet on Obama? I think you mentioned it earlier. G: Yeah, I did. I’d bet on Obama. And you’re also asking me... yes, I have made arrangements to head south. My information I get from the ETs, though, has told me to hold tight right now, basically stay at the minute, because... like me, I’ve got three lectures to do next week and I’ve got a couple other places across country. I’m trying to wake up enough people so they can understand a much bigger picture. So at some point I can head off down to Ecuador. B: Yeah. We want to help you as best we can in waking up as many people who’re able to listen to the kinds of things that we’re all trying to say here. Inasmuch as you refer to the Ground Crew earlier, do you have a final message for them that we can help you state here, clearly, for anyone who is listening right now? G: No. The messages we had... you know, I get people from all over the world calling me on that. And the messages are, is to get together with other people, to try to at least have a communication going on. You cannot believe how many agendas that are happening to try to stomp down any kind of communication that says, Hey, there’s something else going on. And what we’re looking at is that the groups that are forming -you know, I’ve got groups that are a hundred; some of them are three; some of them are ten -- and they’re breaking up because they’re finding out the responsibility of... once they wake up to what is really happening on the planet, the responsibility of transmitting that information to their family, who then thinks they’re totally nuts anyway, because the world is OK for them this week. It’s when the economic thing starts really coming apart, and we get the war going... as the chaos increases, then that’s when it’s gonna happen. So I don’t... other than the people that you’re helping, getting the information... And a lot of them are getting the information. They get it. You know, they go to my website and they’re downloading the basic three books on it to get them going. And my lectures, and what you people are doing, in order to assist people, to give them information so they can try to put the pieces together... ‘cause there’s many pieces going together, and I don’t have ‘em all. I have a lot because of my connections that are still around. And they’re concerned, they themselves, because they’re making arrangements to get out of Dodge, so to speak.


And they’re looking for places. Like you’re over in Switzerland right now? I have a friend that wants to go over to Switzerland. Will Switzerland be safe? The whole northern hemisphere is gonna be a dangerous place. K: OK, so you think that the mountains aren’t going to help? G: No. No. K: OK. Well, this is kind of a gloomy picture here. We want just a ray of hope for you. We’re starting a new website called Project Avalon that’s going to create a forum where people can connect with other people, have dialogues about these issues, and start creating communities. It’s going to have resources with information on building earth houses and whatever, you know, storing water and whatever is necessary to get through whatever might be coming down the line. So, it is called www.projectavalon.net. And I invite you to be one of our first visitors, and certainly you’re the inspiration in many ways for it. G: Well, thanks, Kerry. As soon as I get myself organized this next week, I’ll be glad to do that. There are several little cities across the United States that have declared themselves independent and they know what’s happening. So many people in there are assigning jobs. One person will grow one thing, one will try to work on the energy portion. Everybody’s working together. And there are new energy devices that are being withheld from the general public that are also starting to come out online. And I think what you’re doing is allowing people to facilitate all of that, if we can keep away the greed factor from everything. K: Yeah. Always an issue. Well, thank you, George. This has been quite an interesting conversation, to say the least. And hopefully it’s brought people up to date. We’d love to have another conversation with you, you know, next week sometime, once you’ve had a chance to touch base with your Washington, or whoever, whatever, sources. G: Kerry, what I’ll do is, I’ll call you back. I’m flying out of town on Wednesday and I’ll be in Denver, Colorado, actually, for three days, for three different lectures there, next to where they just had the convention. K: Right. [laughs] Very interesting. OK. One last question. Gary McKinnon. Are you familiar with his case? G: No, I haven’t heard anything about that. But I know that the new systems they’re putting into place right now are gonna change all kinds of things. And they’re very concerned about that. You know, Google’s coming out with its own browser today? K: Yeah, I heard that. G: And because of the browser, because of the information and the streaming quality of videos and information, more and more people are going to the internet for information than they are... well, they know. Look at CBS. It’s got what? 6 millions viewers, right? Now all of a sudden their whole economic stream is coming apart. And the advertising is going to the internet. They’re not making any money yet, but that’s what they’re trying to do. Otherwise, it will be total chaos in what they call the information stream. And it will be people like you that will be able to put information out, that people can reasonably take it and say, OK, I can count on that. The problem is how they’re gonna be able to survive in the days ahead. And that’s the challenge, and that’s what your other new website’s all about. K: Right. Absolutely. G: So we’ll all work together. It’s not a one-man job. Those that wake up, we have to work together. K: Yeah, that’s for sure. OK. Well, take care, George, and we hope to talk to you again soon, OK? G: Thank you. B: Thank you, George. G: Thank you, sir. ‘Bye. G: No, I’m not really. I mean, I know the... K: He’s the hacker that hacked into the Pentagon computers, and they’re extraditing him. He went up to the House of Lords. He was turned down. He didn’t want to be extradited from the UK to the US. He’s afraid of going to Guantanamo. So I wondered if you’d heard anything about that case.



(This article from RENSE.com is the subject of the telephone inte0rview with Benjamin Fulford which follows this article.)

US War-Mongering In Georgia A Negotiation Tactic As US Bankruptcy Looms
By Benjamin Fulford 8-28-2008
The US war-mongering and talk of World War 3 is nothing more than a desperate negotiation tactic aimed at staving off US bankruptcy, according to two sources affiliated with US intelligence agencies. The Bank for International Settlements has demanded that the Bush/Nazi cabal that has taken control of the US pay back trillions of dollars they stole from the rest of the world by September 30th, the sources say. The money was stolen during the Reagan presidency by George Bush senior to finance the collapse of the Soviet Union. This money must now be returned to its rightful owners, the sources say. As the deadline approaches, the cabal has threatened to impose martial law on the US and launch World War 3 unless they are given a reprieve. In a related development, an agent of David Rockefeller, the selfdescribed Japanese Security Police "ninja," has provided this writer with a proposal aimed at fixing the situation. The proposal calls for a secret council of 100 people to take control of the world's finances. The votes would be distributed as follows: 78 for an alliance of Russia, the EU (i.e. France and Germany) and China. The other 22 would go to the US. As a part of this deal UN headquarters would be moved to Xian, China by 2011. Also by that date the US dollar would be replaced by a new currency. A China-based world government would then be put in place by 2020, according to this source. At that point the US armed forces would become a UN force controlled by the entire planet. In exchange for this offer, David Rockefeller has asked the Japanese Emperor for permission to use 2000 trillion yen worth of Japanese gold that is held on US territory. The gold would be used as follows: 500 trillion yen to deal with the sub-prime crisis, 500 trillion yen to get the cabal out of debt, another 500 trillion yen to finance a vast space exploration project, 350 trillion yen to pay off Iraq war debt and 150 trillion yen to invest in China. Furthermore, control of the US cabal would be handed over to a younger, and supposedly more enlightened generation. This is the same source who promised last autumn that Al Gore would be made president. While that did not happen, he did subsequently get a highly publicized movie, a Nobel Prize, an Academy award and a big advertizing budget, indicating serious power in the hands of the faction that made this promise. A senior NSA source, meanwhile, warned that a member of the Chinese politburo affiliated with Madam Wu has been bribed by this cabal and may therefore be compromised. It is impossible for me to independently verify any of this information but I have been able to independently verify that the sources are genuine NSA, CIA and Japanese Security Police agents. However, it is clear that some sort of deal is likely to be reached by September 30th and that thus martial law and war can be avoided. The evidence for this is the shift in Chinese policy towards the US dollar. While previously Chinese companies and financial institutions were shunning dollars they are now ramping the dollar up with massive purchases. This is being accompanied by a plunge in oil prices. At the same time, the short selling of gold futures by certain banks is probably linked to a belief that Japanese gold will be flooding the market as the result of an agreement. We will try to keep readers posted as new information or additional evidence comes in.

Benjamin Fulford



Project Camelot: Benjamin Fulford Telephone Interview Transcript
6 September 2008
they’re crazy. And they’re trying to kill billions of people. And we’re running out of time. K: So you’re saying that they’re going to push this event forward and you think it might be happening sometime in... October is the timeline you’re given? BF: Well, this is what a lot of the sources are telling me. There’s a split in the ranks. You see, a lot of the Bushes and their Nazi people have been stealing from everybody, and up in the high finance world they’ve created a lot of enemies. And they’re supposed to have some sort of September 30th deadline to pay. And they don’t have the money, so they’re gonna create martial law and activate their military and say, To hell with you. Now, I have conflicting information and it’s hard to sift through it all. The Japanese Security Police Ninja -- and that, by the way, is a very ancient tradition in Japan, with very deep roots; the top levels are their equivalent of our spy agencies -- but he’s telling me they actually made an agreement and they’re gonna use Japanese gold in the US to pay off the Bushes’ debt and then they’re gonna come up with a new agreement. I published it in Japanese on my web page. But the problem is, it looks to me like a delaying tactic. These people were planning something for 2012, and events are spinning out of their control. So they’re trying to fast-forward it, but they need more time. That’s my understanding of it. But we really, clearly, must not let them strike first. That’s what they did on September 11, 2001, and they’re gonna do it again. In other words, we cannot react. They’re gonna do something so radical that... We have to have a critical mass of people in the military and the intelligence establishment, whatever, among the civil population, to take these people down before they make a move like this. K: What exactly is the plan that you think they have? In other words, you think they plan either to attack Iran, or you’re saying they’re going to take out Israel. What is their plan? BF: Well, there is a group that wants to start WWIII. And we’re the group that’s trying to stop them. It’s clear the US Air Force has prevented the Israelis from attacking Iran by flying over Iraqi air space. And when the Israelis set up an air base in Georgia, the Russians came in and captured the airplanes and dismantled the air base. But clearly there is a big group in the US military, in Russia, whatever, trying to stop these people. But they control the Congress, they control the press, they control the Supreme Court, they control the office of the President, and they control about 190,000 Blackwater mercenaries.

A 35 minute telephone interview with Benjamin Fulford. The purpose of the call was to allow him to expand on the details reported by him in his 28 August article. His article concerned the importance of 30 September as the end of the US Fiscal Year, and the possible situations being played out by the superpowers behind the scenes. Start of Conversation Kerry Cassidy: Today is September 6th and it’s 7:14 pm, California time. And Benjamin, where you are, I can’t imagine how late it is. Benjamin Fulford: Well, it’s 11 in the morning on September 7th here in Tokyo. K: Oh, right. Sunday. So this is Kerry Cassidy from Project Camelot and Bill Ryan. And we’re talking to Benjamin Fulford in Japan. So, Benjamin, last time we talked, you were very, sort of incognito, talking about September 8th as an interesting date. BF: Well, actually, I don’t know about September 8th, but, you know, the dirt I’ve been hearing is September 30th, and then some sort of event in the US in October. So my understanding from my various sources is that there will be an attempt at a coup d’etat, martial law, and rounding people up for the detention camps in early October. These people have been trying very hard to start WWIII. As you know, the Israelis had an Air Force base in Georgia and they were planning to attack Iran’s nuclear facilities from Georgia. The important thing is though... a friend of mine who was at the Trilateral meeting in Tokyo in 2006 told me there was a technical explanation there, where they said that because the Iranian facilities are so deep underground, they would have to attack them with nuclear weapons. Now, the Russians and the Chinese have said they will destroy Israel if they do that. OK? Well, I suspect the people behind this are ready to see Israel destroyed. This is gonna be their new holocaust in order to create the environment for their so-called “messiah” to appear. So


K: Who are you saying controls these people? Do you have... BF: Well, they’re a group of Neo-Nazis headed by their fuerher, George Bush, Sr. And these are people who, after WWII, they said, you know, they found Nazi documents in Germany saying, For us the war never ended. And they’ve been planning this for more than 50 years. They are the people who assassinated Kennedy and Martin Luther King. And they have a lot of their people spread throughout the establishment. And they were waiting until they had all the right people in all the right places. And now it’s sort of “endgame”. They’re being cornered. Their original plan was to have Hillary Clinton followed by Jeb Bush for the... to complete their entire Nazification and turning the US into a fascist country. But the loss by Clinton and a change in the power politics among the “secret government” members has meant they’re kind of desperate and they’re gonna try to do something very crazy. K: OK, but you were talking about a coup. So on September 30th, exactly what do you think...? Because you can’t put in martial law without some kind of... BF: Well, the BIS has demanded that the Bushes pay back the money they owe to the Europeans who are trying... basically everyone on Earth. They’ve been ripping people off all over the place. So if they don’t, then there is a possibility of a serious economic crisis in the US. And such a crisis would be followed by martial law. K: OK, from George Green we understand that the Bank for International Settlements is supposed to be not able to do their actual audit during the Bush administration, that they’d have to come in after the election. That was his understanding, because Bush does not want them to come in while he’s in office. Do you think that they can be put off that far? BF: Well, they’re obviously trying to play for time. It’s clear that everybody’s waiting for November and everybody’s waiting for the new President before they can start, you know, unraveling the mess these people made. OK? You’ve got to remember, these people have been planning this for 50 years. They’re not just gonna step aside politely. As you know, they’ve built concentration camps around the US. They have their Blackwater mercenaries who are, you know, the equivalent of the SS. OK? K: Are you getting information on what kind of event that they’re planning for, say, October sometime? BF: Well, it would be declaration of a national state of emergency. Now, the message and information I’m getting is mixed. It’s clear there’s a lot of flux going on. There’s a lot of different factions with different agendas and it’s not clear how the whole thing’s gonna play out. Like I say, the Japanese Security Police, the guy who was originally sent to me by David Rockefeller, contacted me saying they’d reached an agreement for a new type of “world secret government” that would involve domination by an alliance of the Europeans (and when I say “Europeans,” I mean the non-AngloSaxon Europeans: the French and the Germans), the Russians, and the Chinese, with the Americans getting 22 out of 100 votes and the Europeans, the Russians, and the Chinese getting 78 votes. And that, as a result of this agreement, they’re gonna extend the Bushes’ money to keep things going after September. But I worry that that agreement is just a ploy for time, that it’s not gonna be something they’re really gonna do. I mean, these people are serial liars. And we have the, apparently George Bush Senior’s brother, Jonathan Bush, who has been living in China for a long time. And my sources are telling me that a Chinese Politburo official connected to Madame Wu has laundered billions of dollars overseas and is being blackmailed about this. And also we have George Bush, Sr., who was ambassador to China. So they have a lot of connections there. And I think they’ve been lying to and fooling the Chinese and using their connections to try to make it look like they’re gonna hand over control to the Chinese, but really they’re just playing for time. So my advice to the Chinese is don’t trust these people and don’t trust any Chinese that are connected to the Bushes, because they’ve been bribed, and they’ve been compromised, and they’re probably also blackmailed, too. K: But you’re saying that they’re actually going to sit back and take 22 votes versus 78 on the side of the Europeans. I don’t see America settling for that. Not the America I know, at any rate. BF: Well, that’s the point. So there are some, obviously, factions. This is, I assume, the same faction that was behind this whole CO2 campaign, the people who backed Al Gore, OK? And that faction is obviously opposed by the Nazi faction, who want to create an artificial Endtime. That’s the problem. So it’s really... And the US military establishment and intelligence community, whatever, seems to be split in two between the fascists and the traditional, you know, patriots. I’m hoping that a majority will be patriots and realize that they want the United States to be free and strong. And if the United States is free and strong, they will keep their leadership of the world just because they’ll be the best and everyone will want to imitate them. But to try to take over the world by force... it’s just not gonna happen. K: Originally you had said that if they went and attacked Iran, that the Ninjas would be mobilized to actually take them out one by one. That was your threat. BF: Well, yeah. I mean, if there is an attack I will certainly ask that they start doing this. I mean, it’s clearly... These people are a threat to the human species and it’s in everybody’s interest. At that point, that will have to happen. K: Our information, partly from George Green, but also from other sources, is saying there is going to be an attack on Iran. Is that information you’re getting? Or are you getting that they’re going to hold off?


BF: Well, they’ve been trying to attack Iran for a long time. They tried to attack Iran... well, in fact, George Bush, Sr. ordered the Pentagon to nuke Iraq or something back in 1992 and they said No, and they tried to take him down with the Iran Contra scandal. And they managed to get him out of power. So there is a powerful faction of “White Knights” in there. And these are the same people that have repeatedly blocked the Israeli Air Force from attacking Iran. And if you look at a map, you can see that they could attack Iran from Georgia without flying over Iraqi air space, and therefore not being blocked by the US Air Force. But if the Air Force is actually blocking the Israelis, then I don’t see how the Israelis are gonna be able to attack. However, I have also heard that something like 20 Air Force generals were killed. And so, maybe they’re trying to wrest control of the Air Force. But Russia... K: Are you talking about 20 US Air Force generals? BF: Yes. I got this from an NSA source. I don’t know if it’s true or not. K: We heard something similar to this. Is this something that happened in Georgia? BF: No, that would be in the US. K: In the US? OK. BF: They’re trying to purge the doves from the US Air Force so they can get their hands on the nukes. K: Are you able to reveal where you got that information about the generals being... BF: Well, one NSA source and one CIA source. And I looked on the internet and there were some articles. It’s hard to see if it’s true or not, you know. But I believe that even if they get rid of the generals, there are so many colonels and other people there who are the... they are the line of defense, at the end of the day. I mean, these people, they control their very top positions. Like you have Hayden there, at the top of the CIA. And you have Kinney. And these are the people that you have to take out. They don’t control the middle ranks or even most of the upper ranks, just the very tip-top, in many cases. Now, we have a list of their names. Everyone knows the Neocons and who they are. And these are the people that need to be stopped. I mean, they’re crazy. That’s the bottom line. They’re following an insane agenda. K: What’s your idea of what can be done to stop them? Are you just saying that we have to rely on what is, in essence, “white hats,” to pull a coup within the US government? Because I would posit that this might have already happened, under Mike McConnell. BF: Well, I hope so. And I think Mr. Gates, Defense Secretary Gates, seems like a sane man. And you had the Admiral Fallon thing. That was a bunch of them trying to put the crazies back in the box. But there is some kind of Mossad assassination team out there, too. And at a certain point, these white hats are gonna have two take actual action, i.e., arrest people. And that hopefully will happen. I mean, I am encouraged by the fact that they have been stopping repeated, repeated attempts to attack Iran. So hopefully this nightmare scenario will not take place. But the key of the question of what’s gonna happen is Blackwater mercenaries, and who’s gonna fight them. Or are they gonna obey orders? The big difference between the Nazis today and the Nazis in Germany is that these Nazis don’t have any popular support. Hitler had 80% popular support. These guys have 20%, just the brainwashed Christian Zionists. You know, we have other sources saying that something like 1 to 2 percent of the US population has been specially trained and indoctrinated for an event of this sort. It’s a messy situation and there’s a lot that we cannot see. On the other hand, there are good signs as well. Japan’s gonna have a general election in November and hopefully the new government will be very different from the one that’s been in power since after 1955. And hopefully they will insist that the US stop their incessant warmongering if they wish to keep receiving funding that they need to have their economy stay afloat. K: What’s your take on what’s going on on September 30th in regard to the US economy? Because, as you said, those debts are going to be due. Is the Japanese gold going to prop up our economy here in the US or not? BF: Well, I mean, it’s in nobody’s interest to have the US economy collapse. Nobody wants to have a Soviet-style collapse. And I think they’ll find a way to keep the money going. But of course if there is an attack on iran, then who knows? But I believe that there’s a critical mass of sane people that does not want WWIII. So even... my guess is that the Zionists, if they succeed in bombing Iran, then Israel will be destroyed, but the US will not then start all-out thermonuclear war, as some of these crazies are planning and hoping for. K: Are you still in the same position you were before, in the sense that you’re aligned with these Asian Secret Societies and that they can be called upon to actually try to change events? BF: Yes. And I have asked them to take a look at their deal and insist that they be given access to US military bases, to make sure there’s no genocide being planned. And I also told them that, you know, they should not be playing for time and we should not give them time, because time is not on our side. They were... You know, I guess they’re working toward 2012. They’re trying to speed up the agenda. And so, the faster we act, the less likely they are to succeed. And also, I’m been contacted by other groups... the Karate Association? Fifty million people around the world are studying


karate and they’ve offered help. And they could probably get all the other martial arts societies to join. And, as you know, most people who are studying martial arts are not Asians these days. They’re actually, you know, all over the world. I mean, I studied judo in Mexico as a kid and then continued my studies in Canada. So these societies are very important. At the end of the day, we’re hoping that everything can be done peacefully, without a single death and a single fight. You know, bullies become weak if people stand up to them. And if enough people stand up and say, Hey! then they will stand down. I’m hoping they will see the insanity of what they’re trying to do and wake up. Bill Ryan: Some of the information that you’ve been reporting... a lot of people listening to this will identify it as being very similar to stories that are being reported by Christopher Storey on World Reports and also by Stew Web on Fourwinds10 and then copied around on websites and forums like Rumor Mill News. And most serious analysts don’t give that information any credence because they don’t trust those sources. Are you saying that your source of this information comes from genuine insiders, and it’s not just picked up off the internet? BF: Yes. Now, they’re saying some sort of event in early October, too. And then you can confirm this from places like the Jerusalem Post. That newspaper had an article saying they were going to attack Iran with nuclear weapons. So, you have a faction that wants to start nuclear war. They want to nuke Iran’s facilities. And you have a faction that’s trying to stop them. And you have these factions controlling large sums of money, so there are financial backers for each faction. And so, what we’re getting is information from two sources, two big, you know, main sources, of two factions, and it’s not clear what the balance of power is. But, overall, I think the crazy faction that wants to start WWIII is losing. But they’re desperate and they’re cornered and they’re gonna try to pull off something, OK? So that’s how I read the situation. There is a desperate, violent, nasty group, and they are in a pinch. And until they’ve actually stepped aside, we cannot say with confidence they’re not gonna do something crazy. That’s my reading of the situation, from many different sources. BR: As a financial guy, there’s a lot more that you understand than we do about the processes of banking and the Federal Reserve and all of the huge machinations that make up the kind of whole carefully balanced machine of the international debt structure. So, what could really happen in the real world on September 30th? Imagine that the clock’s turning midnight in Washington. What happens? Do they make a press announcement the next morning, announcing to the world and to the media that they’re repudiating all of their debt? Or do they just put troops on the streets and say, Tough, all the banks are closed; we’re not even going to tell you why? Or if this all in response to an event, some kind of martial law, what might that event be? BF: Well, OK. The scenario is that they cut off the US payments, right? They say, OK, the United States is bankrupt. And that would lead to a shutdown of banks. People wouldn’t be able to get their money out. The whole system would fall into chaos. OK? There would be riots in the streets, people rushing to supermarkets to grab food. People heading out the countryside, you know. And then we’d have martial law and we’d have these Blackwater mercenaries out on the street trying to round up dissidents. And they have this list of a million people that they want to round up, right? This so-called “no-fly” list. So, if you’re on that list, you better hide. But my guess is that the smart people will not give those guys any excuse to start martial law. In other words, they will keep financing them until November, until they’re out of power, not give them... If I were, you know, I would say, Look, let’s not give these guys their excuse. They’re trying to do something in October, because after November they’re out of power. And they’re worried about going to jail for war crimes. So again, my recommendation is we offer these people a full pardon, a full amnesty, as long as they step aside peacefully. K: OK, when you say “we,” though, are going to offer these people amnesty... I mean, what is your scenario as to how this socalled amnesty would even take place? Because, for all intents

BF: Well, the person sent to me by Heizo Takenaka, the finance minister, who works for Rockefeller -- the person who is definitely connected with the Japanese Security Police and definitely connected with David Rockefeller -- ok? -- what he told me was that they had figured out, they had worked around the September 30th deadline, and that Japanese gold would be used... 2,000-trillion yen worth of Japanese gold would be used to support the US economy over a transition period through to 2010. First of all, clear the debts of the cabal, and then finance a huge aerospace project. So that source, he tells me that the September 30th thing has been dealt with, OK? There was a deadline, and they’ve come up with a solution. K: Well, it sounds like you’re not sure about that. It sounds like you’re actually unsure. BF: Well, I mean, that’s what one source says. The source, the NSA guy, is telling me that there’s still (and the CIA guy, they both have), and a source that is not Mr. Storey, ok? These are some analysts who have come up with a very successful predictive model by scanning the internet for certain types of clues. K: You’re talking about Half Past Human.


and purposes, from our understanding, these people are not going to go quietly. BF: Right. K: Under every circumstance that we can imagine, including their heart-felt desire for an Armageddon-like scenario, they don’t have any motivation to go quietly, do they? BF: They don’t. But the question is, do they have the ability? I think they’ve lost so much support, even in the “secret government,” that I don’t think they’re going to be able to do anything. They have stolen a lot of money. They’ve hired a lot of goons. The big worry is this Blackwater force and what those people are gonna do. They’re paid a thousand dollars a day. But they want to do something. They’ve wanted to do it for a long time. They’ve been trying to nuke Iran for years. They’ve been talking this talk for a very long time. I mean, how many hundreds of times have they said, We’ll attack Iran, attack Iran, attack Iran. You know? But they haven’t done it. K: Right. BF: They obviously want to, but somebody’s stopping them. K: OK. Well, look, I’m an American and I can tell you that the party line that I’m hearing from John McCain... he’s totally backed now by Bush and his whole Neocon group, and so is Palin. And they’re rapping the exact same party line that’s always been rapped down. These people are trying to get into office. On the other side, you’ve got Brzezinski’s faction, which is Obama. So under these scenarios... I mean, in essence, I don’t see anybody really backing down. The “white hats” cannot possibly be part of the McCain camp, so in essence, theoretically, they have to be part of the Brzezinski group. And yet, Brzezinski is known for wanting to bring Russia into a third world war. I mean, the bottom line is that these are factions of the Illuminati, and that they do want to see a population reduction situation happen. BF: Well, I mean, on a more macro picture, you have the United States and these factions. OK? They’ve been playing international poker for the planet over the past year. They’ve used their oil card. They tried to jack up the oil price? But what happened was, they jacked it up so far that their revenue from oil actually started to decrease, because people just stopped using oil. So that misfired. So then they tried to jack up the food price. Right? And they jacked up the price of steel and aluminum, everything they controlled, OK? As part of the battle. And finally they dropped their last card, which is the US military machine. And they’re saying, Look. If nothing else, we’ll just use this machine full-out. So, it’s their last bargaining chip. So what I have recommended... What I believe the Chinese and everybody are saying is: Look we’ll keep your military machine afloat. We’ll turn it into a United Nations military machine. And we’ll keep financing your economy, but no genocide. And the other question is, are they gonna free the forbidden technology? You don’t even have to get into conspiracy theory to look at... for example, I interviewed a lot of the solar power companies ten years ago. And they said that after two or three years, solar power would be compared with oil. Well, oil was $30 a barrel then. And now, what happened? Well, the price of silicon has gone up five-fold in this past year, along with the price of oil. Now, silicon is the third most common element on Earth. It’s sand. There’s no way that price should be so high. In other words, solar power should be dirt cheap, and everyone should have solar power in their house. But they don’t. So they have to free this technology. And there is a powerful group of people who’ve been living off oil money and who have bought up, you know... and it’s the oil money that’s fed the military machine, right? So the trick is to separate the military from the oil. Say to the military guys, Hey, we’ll keep funding you, and we’ll finance a major, major space exploration program. And the oil people, well, they’re just gonna have to realize that oil is very valuable as a fertilizer and as a material for making things, but it’s not very valuable as a source of energy. You know, that’s the question. K: But the bottom line here is whether or not the Illuminati -- and where we get into a difficulty here is, when I talk about the Illuminati -- if you listen to David Icke, who makes a lot of sense a lot of the time, he’s actually saying that on an upper level, the Chinese are also run by the Illuminati behind the scenes. And that means there is a deeper agenda than just the one we’re talking about here that will motivate events in the long run. And I appreciate that there’s some madmen, the Neocons, that are going to be trying to stay in what appears to be power here in the US. But the bottom line is also that there is an agenda for the world. And it’s pretty diabolical. And this is what we’re actually fighting. BF: Well, it is definitely clear that there... Well, this is where it gets into stuff that I don’t know about. But a CIA guy who’s connected with the Area 51-type people, and a couple of other sources, have told me that, basically, humanity was not allowed to continue exploring space after the Apollo program, because we are a very violent and dangerous race. And if humanity can come up with a world government that follows this universal principle of “Never shoot out the first punch,” they will be allowed to continue space exploration. And there is a faction that wants to turn the human species into a kind of predatory type of creature. And this is what these people say. So that’s the battle line there. But the Chinese, as far as I can tell by all my connections, and if you look at the nature of their government and everything else, they are not doing evil in China. But China was under their control under Chairman Mao and they killed tens of millions of people. But after Deng Xiao-Ping got in power, basically the Illuminati lost China. They’re trying to get back. They have people they’ve been working on and bribing and whatever, but they don’t have control. But they have been negotiating and they’ve been trying to fool the Chinese. That’s my take on it. K: We understand that the Russians and the Chinese have been doing war games together. BF: Yes.


K: Do you know the objective of that? BF: The objective is that, if necessary, they are ready to take on the US military machine. The Chinese have their nuclear subs out there. The Russians are ready. These people are ready for all-out nuclear war, if it comes to that. So, it’s a question of who blinks first. K: Well, that sounds like a really dire situation. BF: It is a dire situation. K: So basically, would you say you’re optimistic at this time, Benjamin, in light of everything we’re talking about here? Or are you very cautious? BF: Well, I’m optimistic. It’s a dangerous situation, but I’m optimistic that sanity will prevail. Because, you know, it’s amazing what the thought of death does to clarify your thinking. And these guys have such a good life, they don’t wanta die. And so, there will be a step-down. But, worst case scenario would be the nuking of Iran followed by the nuking of Israel. But it would not escalate beyond that point. So if the Zionists do attack Iran, it’ll be a fatal mistake for them. That’s my reading of the situation. K: All right. Well, Benjamin, we really appreciate you reconnecting with us on this call, because we’ve started our new site, which is www.projectavalon.net. It’s got a forum and we’re already getting hundreds of people signing on. It’s about people talking to each other about all these issues as well as finding safe places in the off-chance that this situation in October actually becomes something major, as well as the meltdown of the US economy, which in many ways, wouldn’t you say it’s going to continue? Because regardless of whether you have the day, September 30, I mean, the US is bankrupt. BF: Yeah, it is bankrupt and they need to be refinanced. And it’s in everybody’s interest to refinance the US. Theoretically, I mean, the US should be having very, very high economic growth. All they have to do is take all that technology that they’ve classified for so-called security reasons and make it public. And, you know, they’d have a boom. Free energy alone would cause people to be rich. K: No doubt about it. Well, thank you very much, Benjamin. BF: So the message is, we need a critical mass of decent people in the world right now. It’s very, very urgent that all decent people who want peace realize that there is a time when we have to draw a line in the sand. And this is that time. K: Well said. OK. Hopefully, we can connect with you again sometime after your Rense show on September 8th, and see if there’s some new developments at that time.



Project Camelot: David Wilcock Telephone Interview Transcript
9 September 2008
very accurately depicted the number Phi using an intelligent cipher that was able to be decoded by a man in England and it actually was covered on Fox News website. It was covered on a couple of English websites and got to be quite a big media sensation. What a lot of people didn’t notice was that this formation had a ratcheting appearance to it, which was very similar to my alltime-favorite crop formation -- which is also the favorite of many others -- Barbury Castle, 1991. This is a formation that Richard Hoagland wrote about extensively in his book, Monuments of Mars, because it encoded the geometry of a tetrahedron, which is a pyramid type object made of four sides with equilateral triangles on each side. This is a blockbuster of a two hour phone conversation with David Wilcock, focusing on immediate current events but spanning time travel, the Freemasons, the Anunnaki, the Nazis, WW II, advanced technology, the Roswell crash, the Rockefellers, the Rothschilds, the Illuminati, the war in Georgia, the coming US election, Benjamin Fulford's testimony, and what may or may not happen in the coming few weeks and months. Start of Conversation Kerry Cassidy: This is Kerry Cassidy and Bill Ryan from Project Camelot, and we’re here with David Wilcock. It is September 9th, 2008, and welcome, David. We’re very happy to be able to chat with you on a live situation here where the rest of the world is going to be able to listen in. D: Well, I’m more than happy to jump in. I heard that you guys had people asking about me and wanting to hear some more and I’m working on a really, really important article right now and I think that the implications of what I’m putting together are quite intriguing and valuable for many people to hear. K: OK, well we just want to jump right in because we’re very interested in your take on the recent announcements by Benjamin Fulford and just want to know what you think about the election, what’s going on, ah, October -- we get a lot of stuff about October -- so just kind of run the gamut, if you will, and then circle around to your article and what you are going to put forth. D: Well, I’ll apologize in advance for the fact that this will probably, at first, sound like a monologue, but there is some back story that we need to have in order to have a good philosophical discussion about this stuff. Is that ok? K: Absolutely. D: All right. There have been some very intriguing developments, beginning in the field of crop circles, actually; beginning, of course, earlier this year with a crop formation that So it looks like a pyramid except the bottom is a triangle. And then you stick that inside a sphere and Hoagland’s research into physics, which has been supported by others including -- going all the way back to some of the turn-of-the-century physicists, including Maxwell -- is that when you have a gravitating body of large size, like the planet Earth or any other planet, that there’s natural energy upwellings as the body rotates, which are formed by geometry. And that sounds kind of dry and academic until you realize that the Great Red Spot on Jupiter is at precisely this geometricallydefined point. It’s been sitting there for 400 years rotating. As far as we know it’s been there the whole time. We see, on solid planets, instead of these giant hurricane-like storms, we see gigantic volcanoes. In fact, the Hawaiian Island chain is at this geometric point on Earth, and on Mars, you have a mountain called Olympus Mons, which is a volcano that’s three times taller than Mt. Everest. K: Aren’t we talking about 19.5? D: 19.5, that’s right. It’s either 19.5 degrees north or south of the Equator; if you fix one of the points of the tetrahedron to either the north or south rotational pole. And, again, this would all just be an interesting academic exercise, if it wasn’t for the fact that, in the 1991 crop formation was laid down, which actually diagramed in very precise geometric language how this works. And what was interesting was that, that was only the middle of the formation; on the edge of each point on the triangle was a little circle formation, and the first one was intended to be a dot inside a circle, which kind of represents like the first dimension. The second one was a series of spiraling lines coming out from a center going to the outside, which kind of represents the second dimension in which the point in the middle of the sphere in the first diagram becomes a rotation in the second diagram and then, the third diagram, you get this ratcheting thing.


The third circle on the outside of this triangle becomes a ratcheting shape, which actually looks like a pyramid. It’s a 4sided square, which kind of collapses in on itself in a spiral. It’s easier to see the picture and it’ll be on my article when I publish it tonight, which is on www.divinecosmos.com, my website. All this stuff is going to be there. Anyway, so it looks like there’s a progression of dimensions. You have the 1st dimension; 2nd dimension; 3rd dimension and then the 4th dimension, of course, would be the inside of the diagram, where you get this tetrahedron-inside-the-sphere thing. And so it was like a giant infomercial in the crops for Richard Hoagland’s theory, and then, what happens is this year, you get the same type of ratcheting formation, only this time it’s encoding phi, which, of course, is that irrational number that’s created when you take a circle and you define the diameter as the number 1 and then the circumference of the circle is a number that cannot be resolved within our 3-dimensional mathematics. It’s why the phi has an infinite number of decimals, because you can’t actually calculate it if you make the diameter 1. Anyway, it’s believed that, in a higher-dimensional framework, phi actually resolves to a single number with NO decimal points and that’s when you get into all this multidimensional stuff. So, suffice it to say that crop circles got more publicity than ever this year as a result of that shape being decoded and published in all these mainstream media sources. Not too long after that, there was another formation that came down, which actually gives, in no uncertain terms, an exact diagram of where the planets in the Solar System will be as of December 21, 2012, which is the end of the Mayan Calendar and, of course, the date that is massively speculated upon. There are 2 different feature studio films coming out about 2012, one of which is by Roland Emmerich and Michael Bay -- the guy that did Transformers and the guy that did The Day After Tomorrow. There’s another one coming out from Nickelodeon. It’s actually a KIDS' movie based on 2012 and the apocalypse, if you can believe that. And we also know -- you, all 3 of us in this conversation -- know that there are multiple witnesses from inside the black ops community that have portended what usually appears to be quite a cataclysmic type of event in 2012. You have ... I’m forgetting the guy’s name, who was the intuitive communicator and was ... K: ... Clifford Stone? D: Well, he’s one of them, but the guy that devised that method of communication because they told him that... K: ... Dan Sherman? D: ... Dan Sherman, right. That after 2012, there would be no electromagnetic means of communication and he devised these other means which they taught him how to do telepathically; and, of course, yeah, Clifford Stone, same thing; Dan Burisch -- who all three of us have had extensive communication with -- same thing; Henry Deacon -- who all three of us have been in contact with -- same thing. And we keep seeing the same information over and over again. In fact, I just asked Henry this morning if I had his permission to go public with the fact that he and I have had extensive communication; he actually announced that in your forum -- so now that’s out of the bag. Anyway, the point is, is that there was not just one 2012 formation, there were actually two and, in the 2nd one a series of dates were given, not just 2012. And the date that has consistently been shown the most, and this is over the course of at least 6 different crop circles that appeared in this year’s season, the date that was consistently flagged the most was August 16, 2008. During which time there was a lunar eclipse over Europe, which would encompass approximately 87% of the moon’s face by the shadow of the earth as it’s occulted between the sun and the moon. So what happens is you have this eclipse and, traditionally speaking, eclipses are associated with the fall of kings. They’re associated with major political changes on the planet, particularly when they act to potentiate existing energies that are already quite tense. Now I was looking at these prophecies. I was aware of them as early as the 2nd week of July. I did not wish to go public with them, because I felt what would happen is that others would jump on it and try to make it into something more than it was. I didn’t know what the answer would be; however, there were some very intriguing clues. One of the formations that flagged August 16th as an exact timeline was actually drawn directly next to a series of windmills that are used to generate wind power -- electricity from the wind – which, of course, is alternative energy, which, of course, could very well be the circle makers saying to us, Ok, check it out. Whatever happens on August 16th is going to be a major step towards eliminating the dependence that you have on oil and freeing up the possibility of alternative forms of energy and, when you look at this confirmation, which, again, I will have all these pictures up on my site and we can mirror this on www.ProjectAvalon.net, which is you guys’ new site as well, so everybody can see this. You’re going to see what appear to be 3 sets of gears with teeth on them, clearly showing that this is intended to be some sort of machine, some sort of functional machine that they’re flagging. So you have the suggestion of a machine; it’s built next to a row of 4 giant windmills that generate electricity, and the date that they’re flagging, again, is August 16th. And there’s, like, 6 different formations doing this date. So I’m going, what the hell is going on here? Then I go off to ... oh, and that’s not all. I was working on a paper with Richard Hoagland insofar as he submitted it to me to read and to see if I had any suggestions as to information I might want to add to it. And this paper dealt with the very beginning of NASA involving Wernher von Braun, who was essentially a Nazi German scientist transferred over here after World War II by our guys in the U.S., who was then made to be a very public role in basically acclimating American people to what’s going on in the space program. And in fact, he had a great deal of rocketry experience by designing the V2 rockets in Germany and was not only the public relations face, but was also a very important scientist in terms of actually developing rocket technology, which would ultimately


lean towards trying to do a moon shot, trying to get a man on the moon. Well in the early days they were launching off a bunch of rockets and, in the process, many of them -- almost all of them, in fact -- were not following their projected path as it had been given. In other words, we were using the conventional Newtonian Physics: Force = Mass x Acceleration; and all the basic rules of how we believe the planets and moons and so forth orbit. And nothing was working out right. There was some sort of mysterious force that was skewing the rockets so that they were actually overshooting the target -- it was as if something was lifting them. They were getting an extra source of lift that was causing them to fly higher and go farther than they normally should have. And Richard did a prodigious amount of work in exposing all this stuff. In this 2-part article series, I believe it’s called “Von Braun’s 50-Year-Old Secret”. Anyway, that’s on his website, www.enterprisemission.com. Now it was on the night of, ah, well, he sent me this work as of, I guess, August 5th to review, because, obviously, we want to have our own form of peer review, since we are peers and we do know things that the other doesn’t know. And I hadn’t had a chance to look at it and then he sent me the graphic he was going to use to put on the front page of the website and it was a picture of von Braun holding out his hand in front of a diagram of the Earth and the Moon and the orbital path between them, which kind of looks like half of an infinity loop. Anyway, I look at this diagram and I say, Richard, I can make this look a lot sexier than that. I want to make this really pop out and do this for you. And so he naturally agreed. So on the night of August 7th, I finished the diagram in which -what I did is I put in a moon on the top right, I put in a star field behind the moon, and then I drew a figure 8 infinity loop between the Earth and the Moon, so as to illustrate the path that the rockets would go on the way to the Moon. And I also used a comical image of the Moon: I found an image where there was a rocket stuck in the eyeball of the Moon, as if the man on the Moon had been stuck in the eye with the rocket. And so it had some comedy in it, because, of course, it was a black eye on the face of NASA that these mistakes were happening, because time after time they’re spending multimillion dollars on these rockets, and then they’re blowing up, and they’re not reaching their targets and it was very embarrassing. This was in the ‘50s that this was happening. Richard’s conclusion, of course, is that there’s an antigravity force that was skewing the launch pattern of the rockets, which is the key to antigravity. He does not believe that von Braun knew about this before or, if he did, he certainly didn’t know how it worked well enough to be able to alter the rockets’ path to make it work. So anyway, this was the key that could have led to free energy and antigravity and all these wonderful things, but, instead, they had to adapt over multiple failed launches in order to eventually figure out how to correctly launch rockets and take these forces into account. Now in the meantime I’m sitting here working on this diagram and the key thing that was the most difficult was this figure-8 infinity loop that I was trying to superimpose between the Earth and the Moon. And I’d gotten this off of just a website that had a series of infinity shapes on it. The original infinity shape was a uniform line all the way around. It was like if you drew a number 8 but the line was even in its width all the way across. And I had gotten it all the way to where I wanted it and then my computer crashed and I had to start over. And I’d had so much trouble with the fatter infinity symbol that I went with a skinnier one, where on one side, it was wide and on the other side, it was skinny. So it looks more like a conventional number 8 that would be drawn in like Times New Roman font, or something. Anyway, I popped this in there and, while I’m doing this, I have this thought in my mind that says, You know, I wonder if the circle makers -- the guys that are doing the crop circles, whoever they are -- would respond to my thoughts and make a circle based on what I’m thinking about right now, because, as we know in crop circle history, back in 1991, a group of people meditated and thought, in August 1991, about the Mandelbrot Set , which is a fractal pattern that many of us are familiar with and the very next day a crop formation showed up that had that pattern in the crop. And I just, I didn’t want to take, I didn’t want to be arrogant, I didn’t want to ask for something, it just was a stray thought that went through my mind, but I had intent behind it. I said, That would be really cool if a crop formation was made based on what I’m thinking about. Well, the very next day was 8/8/8. August 8th, 2008 and, lo and behold, there shows up in the crops a gigantic infinity symbol. Skinnier on the one side, fatter on the other side, exactly like the one that I had just posted on to Richard Hoagland’s webpage the night before in the art that I had done as we posted this article about von Braun, the Nazis, the 1950s, the secret space program, all this kind of stuff that’s going on behind the scenes. So I found this very fascinating. I didn’t do anything with it at the time. Then I go off, that same weekend, to this dowsing conference in Vermont. Dowsing is where people use a stick to find water in the ground. And they wanted me to be their keynote speaker. There was, like, 500 people at the conference, it was very well attended and my father was there, he loved what I said. It was a family healing, a lot of good things happened but, here I am in the airport and I’m reading about Russia and Georgia at war. That basically, the spin was that, Russia created an unprovoked attack against Georgia; whereas, the deeper reality was that Saakashvilli, however you pronounce his name, the President of Georgia, had basically launched an unprovoked, spontaneous attack against innocent civilians in the capital city of South Ossetia, which is this breakaway republic that had been a part of Georgia and was now claiming allegiance to Russia. So he basically bombs these people and what nobody had prepared for -- this is what the insider disclosures have now revealed -- what nobody had prepared for was that Russia knew about it in advance, had secret knowledge that they were about to do this, had disguised all their equipment, so that nobody saw


that it was waiting there, even though they had shot down various airplanes that were in flight when they flew over that airspace, they still didn’t figure it out. The Georgians and, also, you got to remember that there were war games exercises going on between the U.S. and Israel in collusion with Georgia. There was a huge contingent of CIA., black ops, military personnel -- all these folks in Georgia. Because what they were planning on doing, this is what we now find out, is using Georgia as a staging area from which Israeli planes would bomb Iran. And this was also involved in the Israeli faction trying to get McCain to allow Lieberman to be his Vice Presidential nominee. There was heavy, heavy pressure for him to do that. And McCain had actually promised them, so these inside sources say, that he would, in fact bomb Iran, like, very soon, and hence you saw him in that video where he goes, where he’s making fun of that song Barbara Ann and he’s saying bomb, bomb, bomb, Iran, you know. So what’s happened is, I’m going off to this dowsing conference -- all of a sudden, we’re at war. If you look it up, they say the war starts somewhere between August 7th and August 8th and it lasts for 8 days. Well what’s 8 + 8? ... 16. What’s August 16th? The very day that at least 6 or 7 -- well at least 6 crop formations – flagged; the day of an eclipse; the day in which, where a crop formation was equated with these four windmills. The idea that we’re going to get off of the oil tit and on to some sort of real energy that’s actually going to be much healthier for the environment and won’t require us to have to fight over diminishing resources. So what’s happened is the Russians were involved, they had preexisting knowledge, they were shooting down Israeli fighter jets when they flew over the airspace and they still went ahead and did the invasion anyway. There were CIA personnel on hand. Nobody foresaw that Russia was going to fight back like this. Because it was right in the middle of the beginning of the Olympics, if you remember that, nobody wanted to have an international incident when everybody’s together in Beijing for the Olympics. And yet, all of a sudden, chaos starts to ensue. Now again, the original plan was that Russia wouldn’t have a fast response. That this would quickly escalate into a big World War III type of situation and that, in the melee, they would be able to find an excuse to bomb Iran and make it ok. Nobody prepared for the fact that Russia was standing by and just blasted the hell out of Georgia, ripped the country in half and completely demolished the military. Now, this guy, who’s been in the White House for years now, coming out with advanced information, well in advance of when we actually see it in the media; it’s published on a website, which is The Barnes Review – TBR: it’s the initials www.TBRNews.org. You read “Voice of the Whitehouse; you go into the archive on that site. You can read all these disclosures; they come out about every Wednesday and every Saturday, pretty consistently. And this has been the most reliable and consistent intel source I’ve ever seen as far as politics. This guy makes it very clear that a massive war was planned and that Georgia was what was supposed to start it and it didn’t work. And, it’s even worse than that -- worse for them, because the Russians drove out the CIA. They literally ran out of there, they were so scared because such amazing military force was brought down upon them so quickly that they literally just ran. And they didn’t have the time to do any of the exfiltration techniques that they normally would use to leave an area without having blueprints and footprints behind. So what’s happened is Russia has now come into possession of a treasure trove of incriminating documents and materials, which totally lay bare the collusion between the U.S. and Israel, the plans for the empire, global empire; the plans for World War III; the plans for internment camps; FEMA camps -- all this kind of crap. All the documents are now in the hands of the Russians and they are in the process of getting ready to release all this stuff. And TBRNews is going to be one of the main sources that it comes through, thanks to this one guy, Brian Harring. So this is not a joke, you guys. This stuff is real. This is what happens, yeah? Bill Ryan: I wondered if I could interrupt you there... D: Absolutely. B: This is fascinating to listen to this very articulate account. It completely agrees with everything that I understand so I have no issue at all with any of your information. D: OK. B: Something which I had wondered earlier and I wondered if you had wondered this as well. I just wanted to knock this around between us. Earlier on, when Putin did his unprecedented interview with CNN, why do you think he didn’t come cleaner with more startling information? Is it he was he was biding his time and this is going to come out later. That’s my question. D: I think you’re exactly right. There is a vested interest in not tipping the hat too early, because what we’re really dealing with - and this ties in with Benjamin Fulford’s testimony and, thus, the thrust of your initial question -- is a split in the Nazi party that happened when Hitler decided to go against the Rothschilds in World War II. He killed everybody in all the Masonic lodges all throughout Europe. He literally genocided the Masonic lodges. A lot of people don’t know this. There is a website out there -- which is going to be in my article - I think if you Google “Scarlet and the Beast” you’ll find it, but I’m going to have the links in my article. This man has done some really amazing research, which includes the fact that Hitler essentially purged all the Masonic lodges, because he knew that was the only organization that had sufficient secrecy and sufficient motive to be able to organize to bring him down. So what ends up happening is that Hitler was originally being financed by, for lack of a better word, the Illuminati, the Rothschild faction of the power elite on this planet. In the attempt to try to unify Russia and Europe into a single conglomerate nation, so to speak, and thus the effort was to try to go for a one-


world government by basically conquering all these countries and then having alliances. Well, Hitler was only a puppet. He didn’t have real power but, he got arrogant and cocky and started to feel that the power that he’d been extended as a puppet was actually real. I mean, after all he did command the armies. Everybody -- most people -- thought he was in charge. So why not take the power as being yours? I mean, he got to the point where he says, What can they do? What can they do to stop me? So there was ... K: It’s a little like George Bush. D: Oh yeah, totally, totally. So what happened is, there was a split in which Hitler went off on his own and it’s actually not very well known, but highly well documented and I’ll have this in my article as well, that U.S. corporations in large numbers were supporting the Nazi party. And this includes Boeing, who was actually making the bombers. They would have passenger airliners that they shipped to South America and then they would ship them to Africa, where the seats were ripped out and the decals were put on them and they were turned into the Wehrmacht bombing fleets. Then you have the tank plants in Germany that were built by Ford Motor Company and General Motors and, when Allied bombers destroyed the tank plants, Ford personally repaid Hitler to rebuild these tank plants. So it’s treason at a level that is unimaginable to the average person who doesn’t understand that this whole thing is just a big game. K: Also George Bush Senior, you have to think about the Bush family and their whole ... D: I’m getting there, I’m getting there. In 1933 Prescott Bush, who was a financier of the Nazi party -- in fact one of the largest bankers for the Nazi party in the U.S. In 1933 he drew up a plan to engage a fascist coup in the U.S. similar to what Mussolini was doing in Italy and Hitler was doing in Germany because he believed it was the best way to stabilize the economy in the aftermath of the depression. The plan was to oust Franklin Delano Roosevelt and essentially take over the country with military force. The BBC, if you can believe it, and I have the links in the article you’ll see, the BBC actually did investigative reporting on this, complete with a radio show, confirming that it’s true; including this General from the U.S., who actually defected and went against the plan and blew the whistle on it. And there was a Congressional inquiry and it was stopped; but, yet it was very hush, hush and nothing ever went anywhere, because these guys commanded a fierce, terrifying amount of power. So, again, when you’re dealing with the global elite, there’re two primary negative factions that have been warring with each other ever since the beginning of the 20th century. And it goes like this: the Rothschilds created the Rockefeller oil empire. John D. Rockefeller was financed by the Rothschild’s. They said, Go to America, which we don’t want to be there, you go over there and you start this oil empire and work with us. They did not see -this is part of their lack of foresight -- they did not see that oil would become the predominant economic force in the world. What happened was the Rockefellers were able to amass power, so as the U.S., in the Rockefeller faction, began secretly financing Hitler’s regime. Hitler himself actually veered away from the Rothschilds and more towards the Rockefeller faction. And thus, in the aftermath of World War II and collapse of the Nazi party, when the Rothschilds and the Rockefellers turned against Hitler because he basically was loyal to no one but himself, a good portion of Hitler’s war machine was imported to the U.S. via Project Paperclip, which was a program that Congress justified by saying, If we don’t get these scientists, then the Russians are going to get them, so we gotta bring them here. Well not only did they bring over their science, like with von Braun and the rocketry, they also brought over all this other garbage like these ritual occult stuff, torture techniques that were intended to create partitions in the mind for purposes of mind control, which led to the Monarch Mind Control Program, and not to mention all of the tools to manipulate a free society into a fascist dictatorship, which various researchers -- including this woman named Naomi Wolf -- have asserted is exactly what’s happened. In fact the neoconservative Bush administration has essentially followed Hitler’s playbook right down to the letter. In fact the phrasing like “Homeland Security” is very similar to what the German’s called “Fatherland”. And it just goes on and on and on. I’m not actually an expert in that particular area, but you can research this... Rothschilds vs. Rockefellers So, again, when you’re dealing with global elite, there’s two primary negative factions that have been warring with each other ever since the beginning of the 20th century. And it goes like this: the Rothschilds created the Rockefeller oil empire. John D. Rockefeller was financed by the Rothschilds. They said, Go to America, which ... we don’t want to be there. You go over there and you start this oil empire and work with us. They did not see -- this was part of their lack of foresight -- they did not see that oil would become the predominant economic force in the world. And what happened was, the Rockefellers were able to amass power. So as the US, in the Rockefeller faction, began secretly financing Hitler’s regime, Hitler himself actually veered away from the Rothschilds and more toward the Rockefeller faction. And thus, in the aftermath of WWII and the collapse of the Nazi party, when the Rothschilds and the Rockefellers turned against Hitler because he was basically loyal to no one but himself, a good portion of Hitler’s war machine was imported to the US via Project Paperclip, which was a program that Congress justified by saying, If we don’t get these scientists, then the Russians are going to get ‘em. So we gotta bring ‘em here. Well, not only did they bring over their science, like with von Braun and the rocketry, they also brought over all this other garbage, like these ritual occult stuff, torture techniques that were intended to create partitions in the mind for purposes of mind control, which lead to the Monarch Mind Control Program. And not to mention all of the tools to manipulate a free society into a fascist dictatorship, which various researchers -- including this woman named Naomi Wolf -- have asserted is exactly what’s happened.


In fact the Neoconservative Bush administration has essentially followed Hitler’s playbook right down to the letter. In fact, the phrasing, like “Homeland Security” is very similar to what the Germans called “Fatherland”. And it just goes on and on and on. I’m not actually an expert in that particular area, but you can research this. Alex Jones ... K: We know who is ... Jordan Maxwell ... and we’re planning to interview him very shortly. Occult and Religion D: Right. And he can fill you in with a lot of this stuff. So anyway, this is all back-story to establish that two essential factions, both of which are negative, were established. And the Rothschild faction has always been much more involved with ritual magic and the occult. The Rothschild faction has a spiritual belief that Lucifer is actually the good guy and that the Christian pantheon threw him out because they were the bad guys. So they’ve reversed the whole biblical scenario and said, hey, this angel of light who was God’s most bright angel, was the good guy all along and he got thrown out because he knew the secret of the Tree of Knowledge. Hence, they go all the way back to the account of Adam and Eve in the Bible and say that we should have eaten from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, that we never should have been banned from eating it. And the reason why this evil god stopped us from eating from the Tree is because he wants to keep us repressed, he wants to keep us sexually inoculated, he wants to keep us free from any real knowledge that would threaten his power. So you know ... K: Well this is actually I mean, positive, at the root. This is the weird thing about it. D: Yeah, I’m not saying it’s bad. In fact, the Gnostic Christians knew that Christianity was going to become a negative force. And that’s why, when you go into the Book of Revelation and you’re reading about the Antichrist, it doesn’t say 666 is the number. It actually says six hundred, three score thirty, and six. And before that little passage, it says, for he who hath ears, let him hear. Now, for anybody who’s a cabbalist, meaning somebody who knows the secret magical tradition, when it says that little phrase, for he who hath ears, let him hear, it means take the numerical value of each letter and add ‘em up, and the number that you get from this passage is the secret code. So when you add up the passage that describes the Antichrist and the number of the beast as being 666, the number it adds up to is 3160. And that number, in the secret code, is Lord Jesus Christ. So what this -- and I know it’s going to sound crazy, but you can read all this in a book by John Michell, called The Dimensions of Paradise. And when you actually go through the account of the Antichrist in the Bible, what it says is that the Antichrist would be wounded on the side and yet did live and fashioned into an idol to be worshipped by all peoples, in nations, of all tongues. And there is nothing else we see in the world except mainstream fundamentalist Christianity that fits that. So, they knew. They knew that the original positive message of Jehoshua (which is actually the real name of Jesus, bastardized into the name Jesus) ... Jehoshua’s teachings were positive. They taught service to others. They said, love thy neighbor. They didn’t say, love thy neighbor, provided that he’s not a faggot, or that he’s not ... You know, I use that derogatory term for a reason, because these guys have totally lost touch with the Golden Rule. As long as you’re not a gay, as long as you’re not having an abortion, as long as you don’t oppose your country invading other countries, then you’re God’s chosen. Well, that’s totally negative and everybody sees that now. So it was seen long in advance that you were going to have this faction that would emerge, that would use the name of Christianity to do unspeakable acts of evil. And this is exactly what’s happened. K: The Neocons. D: The Neocons. That’s right. They are the fulfillment of the Christian prophecy, encoded in the Bible through Gematria, which is the science of adding up numbers out of the letters, in which the Antichrist passage adds up to 3160, which translates as Lord Jesus Christ. And they use that term because Jesus didn’t want to be named a “Lord.” He didn’t want to be seen as better than anyone else. In the Bible he keeps saying, I’m the son of Man. I’m not the son of God. I’m the son of Man. But there’s all that stuff that he was trying to do. And he tried to make it really simple: Love your neighbor. And then it got all contorted into what we see now. Masons, anti-Illuminati So, all that aside, the Illuminati faction is the result of the conglomerate of different secret societies that would keep kind of fading out and dying out and then resurging when people would rediscover them ... one of these people being, of course, Francis Bacon, who is the author of the Free Masonic tradition. Most of those rites and rituals came from him. He also apparently was keenly involved in the rewrite of the Bible by King James, which we call the King James Version. So that’s another feather in the cap of the Illuminati , that their founder basically rewrote the Bible. And they also, of course, have all the Shakespearian plays which ... Francis Bacon took on the pseudonym of “William Shakespeare”, which is a cabbala meaning: “Shake the spear of the will of the I AM presence.” And the real William Shakespeare was a guy who was totally illiterate. He couldn’t even sign his own name. He couldn’t even write. And when he died, they didn’t find any books in his house. And yet after he died, posthumously, there were many, many books, many, many plays published and given his name. So there was a whole team of people writing the Shakespearean plays. Bacon was in charge of it. He was able to use the plays to disclose a lot of royal scandals that couldn’t go out in the public,


because the secret of Bacon is that he was the illegitimate son of Queen Elizabeth. Queen Elizabeth was pregnant by Lord Dudley, who was unpopular, and, therefore, she could not make him her King. And Bacon was raised by one of her maids-in-waiting. And he didn’t even realize until he got to be a teenager that Elizabeth was his mother. So, in the process, he gets this Oedipal Complex and falls in love with his mother. And then realizes that she is his mother and that odious realization is either the plot of Macbeth or Hamlet, or one of the most famous ones. I forget which. But all of this stuff that was in those plays was actually blowing the whistle on real scandals in the royalty. So Francis Bacon became very estranged by the royalty. He was thrown out of England by his mother. He was highly betrayed by her. He was horrified. And yet he was given access to the Vatican library, which, of course, poached the library of Alexandria, and things from the Mayan codices, and all the secret stuff going all the way back to Atlantis that we’re not supposed to know, or that they don’t want us to know. A New Atlantis Well, Bacon discovers that there were plans from Atlantean prophecies to create a new Atlantis. And they even said where it would be, that it would be this undiscovered land in the western hemisphere, which they didn’t even know to exist. So he found maps of the Earth, secret maps, that showed the American continents. He was able to secretly inspire the nautical expeditions of the conquerors and fooled the people into ... telling them that there were streets of gold, paved with gold, that even they were pissing and shitting into gold pots, to try to get people to want to go over there. Because, in fact, he realized that there was this great prophecy that America was going to be the new Atlantis, and it needed his help to fulfill the prophecy. So America was always intended by Bacon and by the Masons to be the location where they would stage this massive effort to overthrow the world and make a New World Order, which was his ultimate goal. Now, he was anti-royalty. So what they did is, they created their own secret society based on all these ancient rites that had been lost. And they created all the secret handshakes and all the rituals and the loyalty oaths where they say, you know, if you blow the whistle on us, we’ll kill you, and then basically set up shop, eventually. It took 300 years, but they moved everything over to the US. And so the Rothschilds ... K: They also infiltrated the Vatican. D: Oh yeah. Absolutely. That’s absolutely true. That goes ... you know, there’re several different levels of testimony that say that, including Svali, the Illuminati whistleblower; Leo Zagami, who you guys interviewed, and others. Greg Szymanski brought in a number of people to talk about that. Anyway, what happens is, Francis Bacon and the creation of the Masonic Order was the beginning of the division against the Rothschilds, who actually were in charge of the ancient royalty that was still running, you know, right of succession, bloodline stuff, Royal Right of Kings, in these European countries. So the Masonic Order wanted to break off from that and create a fraternal organization that wasn’t based on any sort of ancient bloodline, which is very anti-Illuminati, which is all about the bloodline. So they eventually set up shop in the US. The original founding fathers were all Masons, of course. And then what happens is, the Rothschild faction starts to infiltrate very soon after America was created. In fact, the War of 1812 was the result of the US side, the Masonic side, trying to throw off the yoke of the Illuminati. And the King of England was so pissed off about it that he made a hasty attempt to try to take it back. And it was this failed war that resulted. Now, as you go forward in time, you now have the American Masonic party being one faction, against the Illuminati being the other faction. They rejected all the Luciferian blood-drinking occult rituals. Now, granted, they do have Bohemian Grove. They do have some of these sacramental things that they go through, which are more ceremonial. But they’re nowhere near as into it as the Rothschild side is. K: But I have to interject here, that there is a split within the Rockefeller faction ... D: Oh, no doubt about it. K: ... and a major one that involves MJ-12 or, as they want to be called today, the Committee of the Majority, or whatever. And there’s a major war going on between them, within those two factions. D: That’s absolutely correct. What I’m trying to do right now is paint out the picture of the last few hundred years of history so that, when we get to that point, we’ll be able to have that discussion. Again, I apologize that this a monologue, but I think most people will find this fascinating. K: No. You’re doing a great job. D: So, this is the result of extensive research that I’ve done, as you can probably tell. Anyway, what happens is, a very significant series of political events occurred, beginning in ... 1826, I believe, is when it started, somewhere in that neighborhood. It will be in the article, in probably part 2 or part 3 of the article. But anyway, the American Masonry grew quite large. You got favored treatment in business. If you were on the battlefield and you gave the Masonic great hailing signal of distress, which is a gesture followed with a verbal statement that you make, then soldiers would rush to your aid. Even if somebody else was in the way, you would get saved first.


So it gave you the advantage in war. It gave you the advantage in business. Gave you advantage socially. You could be lent money from the Masonic Order and you would be protected against being brought to trial even if you had committed a crime. Your crimes would be covered up. So this was very attractive to a lot of people. And yet the Rothschild side was infiltrating and the efforts grew to the point where the Civil War was constructed. I’m sorry ... that’s getting ahead of ourselves. Masonic Revolt Before we get to that, there was a very important Masonic revolt, which is a very key element of American history, which has been totally scrubbed from the textbooks because of the Masonic influence still wielding as much power as it does. It’s very important to discuss this. A man named William Morgan, in the late 1820s, decided that he was not comfortable with Free Masonry because it went against his Christian beliefs. He had ascended to the 3rd degree of Masonry, which ... the first three degrees are called the Blue Degrees, where you don’t really know very much. And he actually went out and published all this stuff and put it out in a book. still didn’t even really have railroad transportation yet. All you really had was horse and buggy, so it wasn’t ... it took a while for these things to get around. But what ended up happening was, a massive social revolution took place. And of 50,000 members in the Masonic Order in colonial America, 40,000 of them quit and virtually all the Masonic lodges in the north part of the country disbanded. Only a very few number in the South actually even stayed operational. And there was actually a party called the Anti-Masonic Party, which you can look up in Wikipedia, that was formed, which included some very heavy-hitting names in American history that were a member of this party. And that party later evolved into a party called the Whigs, and most people are more familiar with that, if you remember from history classes in school. But anyway, what happens is, it actually gets to the point that there were open hearings on a very high governmental level, in New York and other states, about the Masonic Order, and they tried to bring the whole thing down. And they were largely successful. It only held on in the South. The Civil War So what did the Rothschilds do next? It took ‘em a number of years, but they fomented the Civil War, using slavery as the bait, even though both the North and the South were involved in it. That was the ticket that they used. Lincoln was essentially a pawn. He didn’t realize the full extent of what was going on, and they shot him when he started to figure out what was happening and didn’t want to go along with the plan anymore. That’s why Lincoln was assassinated. Lincoln’s actions ... inadvertently he was pawned into creating the federal government as we now know it, taking away the rights of the States and federalizing the American government much more than it ever had been before. So at this time in history the Civil War as actually fomented in order to boost membership into the Masonic Order, which by this point the Rothschild faction was starting to infiltrate. And that’s also where you start to get the break between Yorkies and Scotties -- York Rite and Scottish Rite Masonry. Well, because he betrayed the Masonic Order, they were required by their oath to kill him. And they did. They actually tied a bunch of rocks to a series of ropes around his waist and basically dropped him over the edge of the boat in the middle of the Niagara River and he drowned. And what happened was, the people who committed this murder, even though they knew that it was part of their oath that they had agreed to, they didn’t like what happened, and they began to talk about it and they began to publicize it. And by this point, you already had the Masonic Order having a stranglehold over the means of publication, of media, in the country. So it was very difficult for this word to get around. But back then, you didn’t really have established corporate newspapers and so forth, and mail was brought by Pony Express and those kinds of methods. And in the early 1820s, 1830s, you Essentially what happens is, the Civil War massively restructured the Masonic Order. The lodges all got rebuilt in the North and the South because, basically, soldiers didn’t want to die in battle, and they knew that if they were a member of this group, they would be given preferential treatment to stay alive. The Federal Reserve So, nonetheless, the American faction, versus the Rothschild faction, still won out and had the prevailing influence. And this continued right up until the formation of the Federal Reserve in 1913, which was a dodgy deceptive move that Fulford talks about, which lead to the creation of a fiat form of currency in which speculative hot air is used to back up the dollar. It was originally put on the gold standard but even that was being manipulated and now there’s no gold standard. And that Federal Reserve is actually run by the Rothschild faction.


In the meantime, they were cooperating with the US enough to establish Rockefeller and his oil empire. And that oil empire became the driving economic force of this country, which sort of became the focal point for all these secret societies and the Masonic side of things to focus around ... and the seat of power. World War I Now, what then happens is, as you develop into World War I, you have the Rothschild faction trying to seize world power. You have the American faction working against them. This is the basis of the conflict: are two groups in war, trying to stop each other from doing what they’re doing. Hitler, World War II And of course it didn’t take long before World War I had devastated Germany. German Marks were so cheap that people were carting ‘em around in wheelbarrows just to try to get a loaf of bread. And Hitler was able to rise up in the middle of this collapsed economy and create fascism, which people initially supported, because they wanted to go against whoever they felt was responsible for bankrupting them. Hitler painted it up as if it was the Jews’ fault. So then he got people to be angry at the Jews, just like the Bush administration gets us to be angry at the Arabs. So in fact the people did support, to some degree, the attack of the Jews. I don’t think most people would have supported genocide if they knew that’s what was happening. But they certainly were blaming the Jews for what horrible economic hardships they endured. Now, it comes to be the point in World War II, the fallout of World War II, that the Rothschilds lost because Hitler turned against them and the US. He became his own separate agent. And he basically as doing whatever he wanted and tried to make the world his way. So actually the US and the Rothschild side, the Rockefeller and Rothschild side, banded up against him -- the enemy of my enemy is my friend, so to speak – and brought him down. And the way they got to bring him down was, they got him to march on Russia in winter, Stalingrad, exactly, the city. And his army completely starved to death in the cold winter, and ran out of supplies, and he just destroyed his entire army. And they were able to tweak his ego and get him to do this because they had broken his code. They knew where he was going to go and what he was going to do. And Winston Churchill had to allow London to be bombed, even though he had family there. And he couldn’t telegraph that he knew what was coming, because it would have tipped off Hitler to what was going on, and they would have lost the war. So that’s the kind of horrific consequences of knowing the code and not being able to go public with it yet. The Anunnaki and the Germans So again, this is still the history, and what we’re getting to now is the ET stuff. K: Finally. I was getting worried there, I have to say. [Laughs] D: No, no. It’s all coming back. It’s all coming back. In the 1920s there were occult societies in Germany that began to channel ETs, one of which was the Vril Society, another of which was the Thule Society. And, in some form or another, this was realized into an open contact between the German, budding fascist government, and a group of extraterrestrials called the Anunnaki. Now these Anunnaki ... according to multiple insider testimonies, we know that they are approximately twice the height of a normal human being. They wear masks. You can’t see their faces. The protocol is that you are not allowed to look in their eyes, even though they have a mask on. And their outfits are red and gold in color. They actually look kind of comical. It’s almost like a battle outfit, like something you’d see in a video game. And they’re huge. I mean, they’re enormous in size. They’re twice our height, they’re larger than we are, stronger than we are. They also have mental powers, telepathy. They can control you to some degree, the way you think and what you’re going to do. And they don’t like to be messed with. So there was a period of time in which connection was made between Germany and the Anunnaki, which lead to the sharing of technology. This began some time in the early-to-mid-1930s and continued until sometime in the early-to-mid-1940s. It was well over before the end of World War II. The initial meeting apparently took place in the Himalayan Mountains -- it had to be a remote area -- between the Germans and the Anunnaki. The Anunnaki, again, did share technology with the Germans but they only got a small amount. They got some antigravity. They got some energy devices, but not a whole lot. And so the saucers that they built were fairly crude, as a result. However, there was some degree of a sharing of power. This is where we get into the New Berlin Base, which is actually a base that was an Anunnaki base in Antarctica which the Germans were able to cohabitate with them. The Rothschild faction still shares some degree of communication with the Anunnaki. They still are in fairly decent contact with them, from what I’ve heard. But again, the Rothschild faction is vastly inferior when it comes to technology. They don’t have anywhere near as much stuff as the Rockefeller side. Roswell and the Looking Glass And this gets into the Roswell crash. The Roswell crash, 1947, is what created the Rockefeller side to become the monster that it is now. You have this crash in the desert in New Mexico in which these little people come out of the ship and they’re all holding these little cubes in their hands. The little cubes that they were holding in their hands when they came out were devices that allowed them to see through time and it interfaced with your consciousness. You would think about a particular time and it would show up above the little box.


Our guys got ahold of this technology and were able to game out the future and see what was going to happen, using this technology. They didn’t necessarily know exactly what would happen but they could game out the probable futures, based on various events, and actually manipulate history by doing this. K: OK. You’re saying there was more than one. My understanding is there was only one cube, and it’s also known as “The Yellow Book.” So it’s important to tell people that. D: Deacon’s testimony is that there was more than one, that more than one of them was holding one of these things in their hands when they came out of the ship. So you can ... it’s just a difference in opinion, but we know for a fact from multiple witness testimony, there was at least one. Looking Glass, Pineal Gland, Stargates And I put together a wide variety of Looking Glass testimony and determined that, in fact, there are also a variety of ancient Looking Glass devices, that the same group that landed in Roswell - which would be your P-45, ah, no, your P-22 future human lineage extraterrestrials if you go with Burisch’s testimony - that they actually traveled into the past: future ancestors of humans after 2012 where there was a very small gene pool -- that they traveled into the past and they built these devices which actually reverse-engineered the pineal gland in the brain. The pineal gland in the brain is at the exact geometric center of the brain. It is a small area of water which has microclusters in it. Microclusters are little geometric clusters of minerals. And this water is shielded by the surrounding gland, electromagnetically. And apparently the technology is so absurdly simple that all you have to do is shield off water from the conventional electromagnetic energy that we have in space/time and the water starts to be a gate into time/space, which is a realm in which time is just a direction you can point yourself in and travel through. And it’s an inversion of space, so that space becomes time and time becomes space. So you move through space here and you’re moving through time over there. Apparently multiple ... and you actually have Gordon Novel in one of your testimonies that said the same thing, that, when a ship creates antigravity, in so doing, it’s actually moving through time by traveling through space as we know it. And thus they didn’t want to let this technology out, for one of the reasons being they believed it would collapse the economy because people would see what was coming and there would be no speculation in the markets any more. So, be that as it may, we all have this stargate in our own brain, which we access primarily through meditation, stilling of the mind, allowing the obstructions to fall away so we get this sort of natural intuitive bubbling-up, which most people think of daydreaming. They don’t think that it has any value. But when you go into that meditative state where thoughts just naturally surface into your mind without really having to work for them, that’s actually the feed from your subconscious, super-conscious, which comes through the pineal gateway. K: And it’s symbolized by the Egyptians, on the pyramids and so on, by the pine cone. D: And the all-seeing eye on the top of the pyramid, right, all that stuff. So what happens is, the ancient devices that were located in various places which also could do this, both factions, the Rockefellers and the Rothschilds, were trying to track these objects down. The Rockefellers got a much more advanced device. The ancient Looking Glass devices create this sort of ambercolored cloud, a spherical cloud, that the person operating the device allows to be a viewer into whatever future timeline you’re looking at. So, it kind of looks like a fisheye lens. It’s sort of distorted around the edges. It’s not clear on the edges, and it’s amber-colored because you’re using argon gas as the sort of like, the equivalent of like a neon light, to capture the light that shoots through this little barrel in the center. The barrel, again, is based on the pineal gland. All it is is a barrel of water which is electromagnetically shielded. And by doing that ... Bill Ryan: Just to add a footnote to that ... We have some diagrams of that which had been drawn by Dan Burisch on our site, on which we have a link to those papers. It’s called Project Looking Glass. I think you’ve probably got those as well. This is the original Looking Glass device that was deciphered from the cuneiform tablets. Is that correct? D: Correct. That’s correct. And, again, there are a couple of other witnesses, one of whom is online, and has published things online. I have not released his identity yet. But there is a multiple number of converging testimonies that made this case come together for me. And I believe each of these sources is credible. So what we’re dealing with is, when the Roswell crash happened, they got a much more advanced version of the technology. Because the Yellow Disk, or the Cube, as it’s called ... the reason why it’s called the yellow disk is that, when you fire it up, there was a little, kind of yellow cloud that was disk-shaped, that would appear on top of this little cube. The cube itself is about 5 or 6 inches wide. It looks like brushed aluminum metal on the outside, with sort of a raised edge around the edges. It’s about one inch wide around the edges. It actually looks like the cube in the movie, Hellraiser. It looks like the cube in the movie, The Last Mimzy. And that movie, Last Mimzy, is basically an infomercial for everything that Burisch has been saying, which means either that the producers of the movie were big, big Burisch fans, or Burisch is actually telling us the truth, and these people are trying to disclose that same information because they want humanity to know. K: Well, we’d say, not OR he’s telling the truth. It’s AND he’s telling the truth. D: Yes, yes. It’s both. In my opinion it’s both. K: Well, we’d say, not OR he’s telling the truth. It’s AND he’s telling the truth.


D: Yes, yes. It’s both. In my opinion it’s both. Aliens after Roswell So, the Roswell crash was actually a really unfortunate accident insofar as The Cube got into the hands of the Rockefeller faction. And, as a result of them also taking captivity of a live extraterrestrial, a relationship, a diplomatic relationship, was opened up with other human extraterrestrials. Now, when I say “human extraterrestrial,” what I mean is, according to Deacon’s testimony, that you have, in Deacon’s view, it’s somewhere in the neighborhood of over 40 races. And, of course, we know from Sgt. Clifford Stone, he was aware of 57 different races, which he called the “Heinz 57.” All of these various people look like us. You don’t have people with funny, ridgy foreheads like the Klingons in Star Trek. You don’t have people with anything other than basically smooth faces and smooth skulls. Most of them have hair. They vary in height, from about a foot-and-a-half tall, to 12-to-14-feet tall, which would be your Anunnaki. They vary in skin color from jet black, to dark green, to light green, to light orange, to all variations of Caucasian, everything you see on the Earth. In fact, the only group that apparently is not represented is black people on Earth. Black people on Earth may be indigenous to this planet, and that may be partially responsible for some of the racism in these occult groups. I don’t subscribe to that at all [To the racism in the occult groups]. In fact, if anything, it shows how precious, and special, and unique the black people are because they are actually the people that Earth made before everybody else was brought here. Because there is a large amount of, sort of, drop-offs of various races that were brought here pretty much at the same time. At one point Henry sent me an article from the BBC showing that everybody who’s a white person on Earth, with blue eyes, traces back to a single ancestor from about 11,000 years ago, which is perfectly in accordance with what’s in a variety of occult teachings. In fact, Hitler’s whole obsession with the so-called “master race” is based on the fact that the Germans were interacting with other human extraterrestrials, and a fair number of them are blondhaired and blue-eyed. So he thought that this was some sort of advanced race that he wanted to move people on Earth towards, or at least his chosen people. And, again, this is idiocy. What you look like, or what race you are, has nothing to do with how spiritual you are or how advanced you are, at all. In fact, on a DNA level, they’ve now proven there’s not even any genetic marker that allows you to easily distinguish one race from another. And based on the fact that DNA is an interface with your spiritual body, what really matters is the development of the soul, not the genetic heritage you come in with. So this whole bloodline argument is Old World science that has no basis in fact. And I just want to make that very, very clear. But K: OK, David, I want to interrupt here to say that there are other beings that don’t look, per se, “humanoid.” And I’m assuming that you’re going to go with the notion that the Grays are a robotic race. D: Well, when I say “human” ... I mean, there’s some variance in what we say by human, but in essence, you have a head, eyes, nose, mouth, ears, arms, legs, fingers, toes ... K: OK. But you’re missing the reptilian faction. D: Even if there is a reptilian faction, they’re still essentially reptilian humanoids. K: True, except they do have ridges and so on. In other words, there’s also the ones that look preying mantis. You know, there are other beings out there that do not look humanoid. They have arms and legs and, yes, a head, and if you call that ... it’s a very loose interpretation of “humanoid.” D: All I can say is that, from extensive communication with Henry Deacon, and the testimony of Sgt. Cliff Stone, both of them are saying that everybody looks essentially human. Deacon is unaware of any reptilian species. I asked him that point-blank. He says he’s not aware of any group like that. Doesn’t mean they don’t exist, but he’s not aware of any group like that. K: OK, but Deacon is not, you know, the authority on the planet. D: I’m not saying he is. K: He just ... He worked in black ops. D: I’m not saying he is K: So he has limited information because the lie, as Hoagland says, is different at every level. And he his need to know didn’t even extend to Majestic 12. D: And I do believe that there are humans who evolved from reptilian genetic stock. In fact, the first documentation I ever heard about was in 1993, from a friend of mine, whose physics professor had worked for NASA through the ‘70s. And they described 3 essential different types of ET they’d found. The tallest of which essentially looked like us -- human being, normal human being more or less. Some slight variances in the color of the irises, the shape of the pupil, the shape of the teeth, that kind of stuff, but more or less the same. The middle height was your typical Gray. The shortest of which looked like a Gray, but the head was actually a helmet. And when you removed the helmet, there was something underneath that they would only refer to as a monstrosity. And although I never got confirmation that that it also helps you to understand how these people became racists in the first place.


monstrosity was a reptilian face, there are other witness testimonies that seem to assert that that’s what it is. So, I do have reason to believe that you do have some humans who are evolved from a reptilian genetic base, and that they basically tend to be the more self-serving and negative types. Rifts in Space/Time, Abductions In fact, you know, one of the things that Deacon’s testimony said, which I don’t think he’d mind me sharing, is that when we mess around with these wormholes, when we create these vortexes for traveling through space and time, you get something called a rift, and these nasty things can fly through the rift. And what he meant when he said nasty things fly through the rift, is these UFO beings that actually are doing the abductions, and then kind of try to set up shop once they’re here, and make little bases and, try to, you know, stay here. Because otherwise, there is a quarantine around the Earth, so he says, and they can’t get through. But when our guys create these portals, these stargates, if it’s not done properly, then you can create a crack in the shield, and that’s one of the problems that can happen. But again, from the Law of One philosophy, perspective, which is my philosophical background, you’re not going to be abducted unless you have actually invited it by being consistently unclear in your orientation as to whether you are service-to-self or service-to-others. So most people have not been abducted. If you have been, it’s probably not something you’re going to remember anyway. And it’s not really ... it’s not causing people excessive damage. I don’t believe that people are being killed in these abductions. It’s certainly not something that’s pleasant, and I wouldn’t want to have one. B: Are you saying that you believe that people who have been abducted are -- this is not to put words into your mouth; maybe you can correct me -- have in some way a spiritual or psychological weakness, which imperfection has given them that vulnerability? Is this actually what you’re saying? D: I believe there are two different types of abductions going on, one of which I would actually call “contact” more than abduction. It seems that what’s happening is that, part of the game is from the good guys, if you want to classify ET groups as good and bad. And the good guys are trying to keep a human stock of genetic material, on the offhand chance that they were not able to prevent a disaster, which is still very unlikely, but they don’t want to take any chances. On the offhand chance that something went horribly wrong, they would have a genetic stock of human DNA sufficient to recreate a human gene-pool, and allow this grand experiment of human evolution to continue. Now, those people appear to have volunteered for this before they were born. Every effort is made to not scare them. Every effort is made to give them a pleasurable experience, which also includes wonderful consciousness-raising things. And you can actually read the Betty Andreasson material for that. Now, some of those people may be afraid when they go through this. On the other hand, you have a negative faction, which is probably these reptilian-genetic-stock humans. And that faction is wearing fake masks to look like the other group ... which is why, you know, the guy said that it looked like a Gray and you pull the mask off and underneath it was a monstrosity. And they’re actually faking out the same procedure which is being done for positive purpose. Except that when they do it, they’re terrifying people, and they’re scaring people, and it’s a lot more unpleasant. And those, actually, are much less frequent. So you have to clarify. There’s two different types of things going on. One is something that people volunteer for from before they’re born, and it’s essentially kept as positive a possible. The other is the negative trying to impersonate the positive, and thus making the whole thing look like all it’s just a whole bunch of scary, terrifying stuff. That’s what my research has concluded over the last 12 years of looking into this. B: I would agree with you. D: Oh, ok. Good, good. Yeah. So there’s both types. So anyway, let’s try to veer this back into current events, because that’s what all this back-story is for. Again, the Rothschild side had limited interaction with the Anunnaki. It lasted for maybe about a decade and then it cut off. They got a limited amount of technology, which wasn’t very effective. And that’s all they were able to get. Then the Rockefeller side got the Roswell crash after World War II, shortly thereafter. They got access to a time-viewing technology called Looking Glass. In contacting these ETs, they were able to discover that this technology existed from the past, and that it could be found. And these ancient devices were actually the ones they predominantly started using. That’s the one that Dan Burisch apparently has had the most experience with, is the ancient device. 2012 Now, this dovetails into Burisch’s testimony, insofar as ... his level of the pyramid, which he admits is probably compartmentalized and he also doesn’t know everything, is that humanity has a big event that happens in 2012. From the perspective of these future humans, most of the people were no longer here. A small group survived. And they broke off into two groups, one of which had underground bases, the other of which survived on the surface. The people in the underground bases turned into what we would now think of as Grays, as a result of evolutionary changes that occurred, based on their environment and where they went. And the other group essentially turned into the Nordics, which look essentially human, but have the more conventional characteristics you’d associate with Nordic sightings: blond hair, blue eyes,


perfect bodies, you know, that kind of thing. Telepathic communication. So Burisch’s testimony, as you guys are well aware, is that they have these certain node points in time that they can travel through. They seem to be approximately 9,600 years apart, which I discovered is exactly ¼ of the Earth’s cycle of the Precession of Equinoxes, which is apparently the grand cycle that our dimensions move through as we travel from one dimension to another ... if you believe all that stuff. Anyway, there’s these various harmonic points that they can travel through, one of which is 45,000 years in the future, another of which is 52,000 years in the future. And I may be wrong on that 9,600 year figure. I have to look back ... B: I looked at that. I actually thought it was two-thirds of that, because I spent some time looking at this, and thought it was 6,400. D: I think that’s what it is. I think t hat’s what it is. B: OK. D: But anyway, the numbers aren’t that important. The important part is there is a sub-harmonic of this master cycle that appears to be driven by the sun. And, at certain points in that cycle, there’s an aperture that allows them to easily travel through time. And that’s when they’re all doing it. So that’s why we only have certain groups of our future coming back in time to help us. Or so they say, they’re helping us. And from that perspective, some of the abductions are the harvesting of genetic material for the purposes of rejuvenating the future human stock, which had gotten really watered down by the low population that they started with. And, of course, underground bases and people surviving on the surface ... what you’re probably dealing with here is these power groups that actually do have the underground bases and the technology. So, we also find out that the Rockefeller side learns about 2012 and that there’s some big event happening that will essentially change life on the surface of the Earth very dramatically. And as a result, they create a vast ... they start creating a vast network of underground bases. It’s obvious the reason why they did this, to create a whole civilization, essentially, underground, is that they did not feel that the surface of the Earth would be viable to live on. Now again, this gets into doom-and-gloom-sounding stuff. And I just want to make clear that my personal opinion is that the 2012 event refers to shifting in the energetic frequency, which will allow most of us on Earth to live in a parallel existence that is no longer on the physical plane. It appears that some people don’t go through that, and those are the people who survive. Now whether they’re good guys or bad guys is not really important. The point is, some people might choose to stay here. Some people choose to go through this. I don’t believe everybody dies. I believe that there is a shifting of the ways, and that people go in different directions at this point. And a lot of the stuff I heard from Henry and from my other contact, Daniel, all seems to support this. So anyway, getting back to what’s going on right now, and the election, and how this relates to insider politics: You have this Rockefeller faction in which the splinter group of the Nazis comes over here ... Project Paperclip. They come into possession of wonderful technology. And they’re all interconnected with the military-industrial complex, which very quickly breaks itself off from the government, and becomes its own separate entity in and of itself, guided over by this Rockefeller faction, which in essence, does not support Luciferian philosophy at all. If you talk to Burisch, which I have, they’re very against the Illuminati, in fact, and believe that they’re actually fighting the Illuminati and trying to stop the Illuminati from creating an antichrist figure that would be like a world leader. So Burisch has said to me that they had a Do not ask, do not tell policy similar to gays in the military, where they would have meetings with the Illuminati at these groups called the Committee of the Majority. And as long as the Illuminati never talked about their Luciferian beliefs or their desire for an Antichrist, everything would be fine. But if they even brought it up at all, it’s like, to hell with you, the meeting’s over, we’re out of here. And that’s basically ... it’s sort of like this polite Mexican standoff that has existed, where one group, the Rockefeller side, has vastly superior technology and could actually, in fact, create a fake alien invasion, if they so desire. Now, that gets into whether in fact the ETs on the outside would allow them to do that, or whether it would actually be stopped. And I don’t know the answer. Torsion technology, weather wars And you also have to factor in that the Russians, completely independently of all this other stuff, had their own progression of technology, in secret, which began with the work of Alexander Gurwitsch in the early 20th century and was realized more fully by Nicolai Kozyrev -- the science of scalar waves, or what I call “torsion fields.” And with these torsion technologies, they have a means in which, basically, all conventional war is obsolete. They can create massive hurricanes. They can create earthquakes. They can knock anything out of the sky, including the fake ET craft. And so I don’t really think that the fake alien invasion could ever happen, because the Russians could just pick ‘em off like flies out of the sky with this torsion technology. So that’s one of the ways in which I think we’re protected from these greater incursions ever happening. K: But the torsion technology also comes from Wilhelm Reich, and the US side has that technology as well.


D: Oh, they definitely have it to some degree. But what I’m saying is it appears that the Russians have a more advanced form of it. And that’s also what Colonel Thomas Bearden has said, that the Russian side is much more evolved and advanced than what the US side has. And that’s actually been realized, in this ongoing undisclosed war of weather, which has involved hurricanes attacking the US, in a quiet war that nobody knows is a war, which has been used at various politically opportune moments, including 2005, with ... I believe that was the one where Katrina happened that year, among the others which were steered, obviously. And Richard and I did a paper about that. You know, you have these four different hurricanes that land over the exact same part of Florida. And the statistical impossibility of something like that is akin to ... you’re standing out of your second floor bedroom window, and you have a hula hoop on the ground, and you drop four feathers out of the window, in sequence, and they all land inside the hula hoop. The likelihood of that actually happening is so remote. And yet, that’s what happened. And, in fact, at one point, whoever has this hurricane-making technology created a big number “2” inside the hurricane when it was at a magnitude of 2. And the number 2 is a perfect aerial font. I mean, it looks perfect. And it rotates with the eye of the hurricane. It was covered on the front page of Drudge Report. The actual footage of it is still on that website where it was originally featured ... some local news site in Florida. And I have the link for that somewhere, which is in one of my articles. But this stuff is real and ... K: Well, it’s happened in China as well, with the ... D: Oh, yeah! K: ... with the earthquake. So it’s going on beyond the shores of the US. D: Right. And it appears that the guys at the helm pulling the levers on this are not the Russians, but, rather, the Japanese mafia, the Yakuza. And they apparently leased it or bought it, bought the technology from the Russians, and have been the ones ... according to Bearden; they’re the ones that cooked up these hurricanes. You can see on the infrared footage how our guys are trying to draw lines of heat in the air to try to deflect the hurricane [on the Sept 30, ’05 TBRNews archive - Ed]. But it doesn’t really work very well because the Russian-made technology is much more advanced. And again, I believe that this was exactly what was being ... I had a dream not too long ago. This gets back into the present moment, the politics around this election. I had a dream where I was on a the surface of a destroyer ship. And George Bush was there. And all of a sudden we look down into the ocean and we see that ship from the Stargate: Atlantis show, the Pegasus, which, in that show, it’s like America’s most advanced alien-derived technology. So, I see this ship under the ocean, and it launches a missile, and hits the battleship. And everybody’s like, reeling on the battleship. And George Bush starts going nuts and saying, Oh my god! We’ve been attacked and everybody needs to rally around me because we gotta protect this country. So I realized this was some kind of prophecy about an attack against the US. I didn’t know what form it would take, but then it became very clear, through additional data, that it was this hurricane that was bearing down on New Orleans [Hurricane Gustav, 2008]. The purpose of that hurricane, in my opinion, was to throw off the Republican National Convention, which it did. McCain / Palin And then, once everybody fled, and the Republican National Convention was thrown off into disarray as a result of McCain’s astoundingly-bad decision to take on Palin ... and I have multiple sources that Palin was not supposed to be picked by Rove or by the Israeli side, which is the two basic sides at work now. The Israeli side wanted Lieberman. The Rove side wanted Romney. Nobody even knew who Palin was. Nobody was even considering it seriously. But like ... in a similar way to what Adolph Hitler did in World War II -- and in no way am I trying to say that McCain is Hitler – but ... it’s another example of somebody who believes that the power he’s been given is his own, doesn’t respect the fact that it’s essentially a puppet Presidency. And he goes and makes a maverick decision -- which he calls himself a maverick -- and goes against his own party’s wisdom and makes this pick, which ... Astonishingly enough, within days after the pick was made, they were already having to do a very embarrassing public disclosure of this woman’s daughter being pregnant when she’s, like, 17 years old. And she’s supposedly the “Family Values” candidate! I don’t think that was ever supposed to be brought out. It was one of these terrible political gaffes. B: And she’s actually stated on record that in Iraq the US is fighting “God’s war.” D: Ah. My God! I know! It’s such a fiasco! And we all need to be very blessed about this, happy about this. Because this is the collapse of this 50-year Nazi game to try to take over this country, enact martial law, send people off to concentration camps ... which they call FEMA camps now. Current time: The World vs. the Rockefellers And none of this stuff is going to happen. I believe Fulford’s testimony is entirely accurate. The other world societies, secret societies and so forth, governments of the world, have kind of all allied. And this includes the Rothschild faction. But, you know, you kind of have like a Middle East-Arab faction, which is sort of its own entity. You have the Eastern Secret Society faction, which is like Japan, China, and many of the Southeast Asian countries. And then you also have the Rothschild faction. And they kind of have a truce and an alliance right now.


And everybody’s focused on knocking out the Rockefeller side, because the Rockefeller side is the big bully on the block. They have the most advanced technology, by far, and therefore it’s dangerous. B: I want to ask you about Putin. I think I know what your answer is going to be, but ... is he his own man? Or is he controlled, as part of the dialectic? D: I believe he’s his own man. I have to align with what Fulford is saying on this subject. Because it appears that Putin really did overthrow the Illuminati and got them out of his country. And that’s part of why he’s been so scorned in the media. Do you guys ... have you guys read any of the Edgar Cayce stuff? Do you remember his quote: From Russia will come the hope of the world? K: Yeah. D: I think this I what he’s talking about. I really do. Because what’s happened is ... Georgia, again, was supposed to bomb South Ossetia. And this was all being orchestrated by Israeli and US factions, CIA and so forth. Now, again, here’s another interesting side-note on that, bringing in the Israel component. Israel, of course, was a state that was created in an effort to provide reparations to the Jews for what happened in World War II. Now, you’ve read testimony from Svali. I’m sure you’ve seen this, where she says the Illuminati absolutely despise Israel and want to see nothing more than it to be completely wiped out. That‘s the Rothschild side. So what happens, again, is, the Rockefeller side and the Israelis actually banded up and they’ve joined forces, and they’re using the same tradecraft that Hitler had, that the Rothschilds developed, to try to do it over here in the US. So, it’s like both sides using the same type of technology, including creating a fake invasion of your own country ... a fake attack, the 9/11 ... which, in Hitler’s case, was the bombing of his parliament building, which he blamed on Poland, and then proceeded to invade Poland. We blamed it on the Arabs, predominantly Iraqis and the Afghanis, even though most of the hijackers were Saudis. And they don’t even seem to have anything to do with it, except that they were puppets. And we know a lot about that, which we don’t need to go into. But anyway, the point being, that the Israelis are now very involved in the Rockefeller faction. And Fulford’s testimony is that David Rockefeller himself is no longer in control of this, either. It really does seem to be, from some of the testimony that Dr. Stephen Greer has come out with, that, believe it or not, the guy who is at the top of everything is George Bush, Sr. And Cheney. And these guys are ... That’s the tippy-top of this Rockefeller side now, more than the Rockefellers anymore. Brzezinski and Obama K: OK. But you have to get around to Brzezinski and the fact that his whole M.O. is to bring down Russia. D: Sure. K: But his candidate is Obama. And they’re actually at war, within the Rockefeller side, with the, you know, McCain, you know, Neocon faction. D: Right. I agree. I agree. Now, the Brzezinski thing is a very interesting and controversial angle. And I’ve had extensive conversation on the phone with Richard Hoagland about this. Because, as I’ve said before and I’ll say again, I’ve had extensive dream data telling me that Obama is one of the good guys. And then you’d say to yourself, OK if he’s a good guy, then why in the world would he bring in Brzezinski? And Richard and I have talked about this. And Richard’s opinion, which I agree with, is: You keep your friends close, and you keep your enemies closer. What better way to know what they’re planning and what they want to do, than to have the guy there in your cabinet? You hear his side of things, and you hear what he wants to do, because you’re smart enough not to be manipulated by him. Now, granted, he’s taken a lot of heat for it. And lot of people think that he buys into Brzezinski’s beliefs, but I don’t believe that at all. And again, I think when he picked Joe Biden as his VP, it’s a political decision that was made because he’s trying to win an American election. And it’s a dirty game, it’s not easy, and it’s ugly. But I honestly don’t think that, just because he’s got his enemy in the camp, that means that he’s agreeing with everything his enemy says at all. I think ... Richard and I are unanimous in this, in agreeing that the extent of change that Obama actually wants to create is much more than he’s actually been saying so far. And, from what I can tell, the insiders are terrified about Obama ever becoming president. Rockefellers vs. Rothschilds, political parties And you’re seeing a massive media effort to try to frame this election as if it’s an even run between McCain and Obama, which is ludicrous. It’s ludicrous. And we know for a fact, from the TBRNews source, that these polls are faked, that they’ve been faked for a long, long time. You call up 700 people in the reddest Republican state, who you know are the most likely to be brainwashed fundamentalists. And, even in those cases, only, like, 50% of ‘em are saying they’re going to vote for McCain. And that’s where you’re getting your 50/50 dead-heat from. And, let me point out something else which I find highly fascinating. Burisch has said, and you guys both know this, so


I’m preaching to the choir here, that because of the onrushing 2012 event ... which, incidentally, the Rockefellers kept secret from the Rothschilds until relatively recently. The Rothschilds had their own plan to dominate the world, and take over, and create their Illuminated New World Order circa 2020, somewhere in that region. And it’s now been thwarted, because there’s not going to be a 2020 with any world the way that we know it. And the Rockefeller side knew this and they deliberately withheld that information from the Rothschilds up until fairly recently. So what’s happened is, the Rothschild side has run out of time to bring their agenda forward. They were promoting Hillary Clinton as the Presidential candidate. Because, in essence, what’s been happening in American politics for the last 50 years, is that you get the Rothschilds running the Democrat side and you get the Rockefellers running the Republican side. And there has been a shooting war between these two sides, including who gets to control the CIA, who gets to control the FBI, the NSA, the NRO, all these different groups. And it’s been a constant contentious battle of the intelligence agencies in terms of who gets to run what. And, of course, the Rothschilds side wanted to try to collapse the Rockefellers’ oil empire by promoting things like, you know, the Green movement, the global warming movement, Al Gore’s Inconvenient Truth. Gore was, of course ... I think he’s a maverick too. I think he might have been in it in the beginning and now he’s broken away from it. But it’s very fascinating. There is actually a Fox News video clip that I will have in this article I’m writing tonight on my website, www.divinecosmos.com , in which Lady de Rothschild is interviewed by Fox News. And she is slagging the heck out of Obama. And she tried to create this website, did create this website, which I believe is called together4us, [ http://together4us.com/ ] which is basically trying to get those 18 million people who wanted to vote for Hillary to rebel and try to throw the election back in her favor. And this is ... the name Rothschild is right there on the screen. This woman talks for four or five minutes straight about this. She’s very charged about it, definitely does not want to see Obama to be President. She disses him hard. And she’s basically trying to promote the candidacy of Hillary. Amnesty Now, again, I don’t have any problem with somebody being affiliated with a particular family lineage or a particular occult group. I certainly wouldn’t recommend that anybody do that. But at the same time, I believe that hating these people is not the answer. I think it’s important that we acknowledge that they’re out there, and that we prevent them from doing things to harm humanity. But we also can’t genocide them, because that‘s the same playbook that’s been causing so many problems on the Earth. And yet, unfortunately, they know on the inside, that if the masses were to find out what’s going on, in large numbers, that the lynch-mob would be out immediately. And that’s not really a viable solution. That’s one of the things that Fulford is talking about. Fulford is describing how, even though it’s basically checkmate for the Rockefellers, as of September 30th , they’re being called to come up with this debt that they owe from when the Reagan administration overthrew the Soviet Union and pillaged all their money by bombarding them with fake Russian ruble currency. It was a very successful operation, which allowed the massive siphoning out of the Russian wealth to the Rockefeller faction, to the tune of, you know, trillions and trillions of dollars. And now that money is being demanded to be paid back; they don’t have it. And so what Fulford is saying is these Eastern Secret Societies are essentially holding the Rockefeller side at gunpoint saying, Look, if you guys don’t do this, we’re going to hurt you and we have the ability to do that, and it basically amounts to, you know, them getting a loan because nobody wants to see the American economy collapse, because it’s all international now. There’s no real national economy anymore. These countries are all multinational, so the wealth will be redistributed so that there’s no collapse. But the main key now is how do you effectively neuter and silence the influence of this proto-Nazi faction that has taken up root in predominately the secret government of the U.S. And this ties back in with the crop circles and with August 16th and why the crop circles flagged that particular date as being important. Again, you see one of the crop circles showing up next to these 4 windmills, suggesting something on August 16th has to do with the overthrow of the oil economy. Then again you see the fact that on August 7th, the day that the war started, I published this picture on Richard’s website of Wernher von Braun, a Nazi scientist, who came to the U.S. and started this whole problem. And I had an infinity symbol in that picture which then shows up as a crop formation the very next day on 8/ 8/ 8. And that crop formation counted out the days to August 16th. It’s the number 8, there was 8 days to the 16th, and also showed the phases of the moon in the diagram according to www.Cropcircleconnector.com , and the researchers on that site. Ok, fast forward to September 1st, I’m going to bed at night. This is an unbelievably fascinating side note to the story and it’ll kind of tie off my big point here. September 1st I’m getting ready to go to bed and I hear a very distinct message come in. And the message says, Open up the Law of One series, book III, to page 100 and read it. And this is very unusual. This is not something that normally happens to me. So I go get book III, I pop it open to page 100 and it didn’t seem to be anything important. It’s was talking about this cycle in which they say that you count 18 days at a time from when you’re born and, that during the first 9 days of the cycle, your spiritual and psychic abilities will be higher. And during the second 9 days of the cycle, your spiritual abilities will wane. And they say everybody is affected by this cycle. That you start counting from the day you’re born, you count right up to the present, to figure out where you are. They say your single best 3 days are days 4, 5 and 6 in the cycle and, that at the turning points of the cycle, you have the most trouble.


They also say that the more spiritually balanced you become, the more this cycle doesn’t affect you anymore. Now, I’ve read about this all the way back in January 1996. I never felt compelled to try to crunch the numbers to figure out where I was in the cycle because it didn’t seem that big of a deal to me at the time. I just never even thought about it and, all of a sudden on September 1st, I’m told read book III, page 100 and this is what it says. So I went to sleep, I didn’t think anymore of it. Two days later I’m going to bed, again, the message comes in again, Open up book III and read page 100. Ok, fine. So I open up book III. Not surprisingly it’s exactly the same information: 18 day cycle. I say, Ok, this is getting too weird. I go over to the computer. I get on Google and I type calculate days since birth. And I looked for some kind of software that would allow me to do that. Sure enough I find this little thing. It’s a Java Script that you can install on your webpage, tells you exactly how many days it’s been since you were born. I punch up the number and, to make a long story short, the day that I was first asked this question, Go to book III, read page 100, it had been exactly 12,960 days since I was born. Divide that number by 18 and you get exactly 720 cycles, precisely, of these 18 days since when I was born. 720, of course, is 2 times 360. 360 is the number of degrees in a circle and the crop formation that came from my thoughts and from the article I did from Richard, three weeks earlier, was in fact 2 circles. So this just, this was mind-blowing. And then I’m saying how in the world did my – because, consciously, I had no idea -- how could I have known that such a perfect round number as 720, that it was that number of 18 cycles since I was born, on that exact day. And yet, on that exact day, I’m told to go read that exact page in the book where it describes that cycle. So then I’m thinking ok, what the heck does this mean? And it was on that exact day that McCain’s campaign had to admit that Palin’s daughter was pregnant. And so I believe that, with all these different levels of synchronicity tied together, that what I’m being shown is that these are history-making events. And you go back into the inside testimony of what happened on August 16th, it may turn, we know that’s the day that Russia won the war. That by that time all the CIA had completely fled. They left behind all their toys, all their documents, all their secret junk. Russia now has possession of that and BELIEVE me, they intend on publishing everything. They are going to make it public. It’s not going to be kept secret. It’s going to blow the whistle on the whole thing. And I already thought this was amazing enough, but then when you see 6, at least, different crop formations that tie this in, not only with the date of August 16th, but directly with 2012, the end of the Mayan Calendar, it appears that what we’re being told is that the events that are happening right now are directly paving the way for the downfall of the Rockefeller/Nazi faction that has been illicitly running this country and running the show for 50 some years. That this treasure trove of documents Russia has come into possession with will be what is necessary to bring them down. Obviously the most dangerous period of time that remains is between now and the election because this war in Russia, in Georgia rather, was their big attempt to try to create total chaos, to bomb Iran and to create Martial Law. Now, I agree with you guys and with what your sources are saying. There will probably be other attempts. There undoubtedly will be other attempts to create some sort of chaos between now and the election. To try to sway it in McCain’s favor; however, given the astonishing synchronicities that I’ve seen, the crop formation with the number 8, right?; describing the drawing that I’d just made the night before and published for the world to see on www.enterprisemission.com ; the fact that this 720 cycle of 18 days happened on the exact day that McCain’s campaign said that Sarah Palin’s daughter was pregnant; the fact that , that other crop formation that pointed to August 16th was drawn directly next to a bunch of windmills that generate wind electricity -- all of these signs seem to be showing that we’re heading towards a positive future. Plus, I’ve had several dreams which seem to indicate that, though these things will be attempted, that they’re not actually going to pan out. They will attempt to crash the economy. It will be successful to some degree. We’re probably going to see a pretty horrifying market vomit happen very soon. We’re probably going to see more attempts made to create some kind of war. I don’t think it’s going to be successful. So, now you’ve heard my very longwinded diatribe on all these events. [Laugh] And I’m hoping to, whatever you’d like to talk about from here. K: OK, I think that’s great David. You’ve certainly been very clear as to where you’re coming from, your sources, more or less, and what you think is going to happen. I do think that there’re some gaps in there. One of which is the technology that you say the Rothschild side DOESN’T have. I have to say personally I’m pretty suspicious of that. I do have my own sighting in Switzerland to use as documentation, if you will, of a craft that was extremely sophisticated and was built by us, so to speak, meaning humans. D: Right. B: It could have come from anywhere on the planet, probably in about half an hour. K: Exactly. D: Yeah, exactly. [Laughter from Bill and David] K: Absolutely, but I just, there’s something about that that doesn’t ring right for me and, you know, obviously, I understand how you’re saying the Rockefeller side, I mean it is, that could be substantiated by the American military might, which has always been ut bsaid to be superior, until we get to the Russians. And there we wonder just how sophisticated their side is. There’s indications that the Russians are either equal to or ahead of us, but I often wonder whether, if you’ve read The Art Of War, you know, that one of the things you do in war is always pretend to be less than you are. D: Right. K: So that the opposite side will be deceived. D: Right.


K: And I think it’s much more likely that that’s what actually is going on here. That the U.S. is pretending and, this is the hole I also see in Richard Hoagland’s research thus far on the von Braun thing, is that U.S. is PRETENDING to be less sophisticated than the Russians but, in fact, that’s not the case. D: Well, I think in terms of ground troops and conventional military force, they [the US] are at a disadvantage. There’s been a lot credible testimony that the military has been pretty much flattened out, that the helicopters and the tanks are all filled with sand and most of them can’t even run. And all they’re doing now is really just maintaining very small territories within Iraq. They can’t even really occupy very much of it. K: But it’s not a ground war anymore. We’re not even talking, I mean actually we’ve moved way beyond that. We’re talking about electromagnetic pulses D: Sure, but the problem with that is that in order to fight such a war people have to know that you’re fighting it and this is where we get into the fact that hurricanes are being thrown around. Earthquakes are being thrown around. You had somebody that basically liquefied the metal on that bridge in wherever it was, Michigan. K: Yes. K: This doesn’t go against what you’ve said. D: That was clearly a torsion field attack. K: Absolutely. D: No, it’s actually further positive news in the same direction, which is the people on the planet are tired of war and bullshit. We want to see people start to get along. We want to see the economy be good. We want to see less war, less terrorism and we can’t continue to fight amongst each other. How are we supposed to become a member of this galactic society if we can’t even clean our own house up? You know there’s all these other people out there and they’re not very enlightened about ... they don’t ... they are enlightened, but they’re not very keen on the idea of us joining them right now, because all we want to do is blow people up and think everybody’s a terrorist. So we need this kind of separation and conflict mentality to fall apart, and I think the manifestation of Sarah Palin was a BAD mistake on McCain’s part. Because what it’s done is, it’s basically him telling the whole country, If you’re not a fundamentalist Christian, F you, we don’t need your vote. We don’t even care. She is as far right and pro, you know, you can’t even have an abortion if you’re raped by your own father when you’re 14 years old. I mean it’s ridiculous. Nobody wants to go with that stuff. You know and what we’re seeing, there was a brilliant article by Deepak Chopra on Huffington Post where he was basically describing the battle between the lower self and the higher self that’s playing itself out in politics where Palin’s perspective, the fundamentalist perspective, is all about my country, right or wrong. That was the old Viet Nam motto. You know, it doesn’t matter whether we screwed up, it doesn’t matter whether we’re wrong, you know. God bless America. That’s what they all started saying right after 911. They didn’t say God bless humanity or God bless the world; they said God bless our country. To try to rally everyone around the flag and nationalism rather than, Hey, if we demonstration that we were not spending enough money on our own infrastructure. In my opinion ... that was probably what it was intended to do. K: OK, what about the notion that Mike McConnell headed a coup that has already happened? If you will, sometime back earlier this year, actually. And that his faction is very much at war with the Bush side, the Nazis, and Dan Burisch is part of the, is behind the Mike McConnell side. D: That’s pretty fascinating. I know that Burisch disappeared off the radar for several months, earlier this year, didn’t he? K: Right. And he’s been busy again, in case you don’t know that. D: Right. I mean I haven’t spoken with him since, I guess, well, we spoke together at Cal Tech and that was in March, I think. I lectured with him about his genetic science. K: It just, you know, because Benjamin talks about the white hats within the military that are actually working to change this timeline, as they call it. D: Oh, I don’t doubt that for a minute.

D: That was definitely not natural. All the different support pylons just liquefied instantaneously and the whole darn bridge just dropped ... in seconds. That was ... B: It makes no sense as an attack, but it makes a lot of sense as a demonstration, would you agree? D: No, I, in that case I’d have to disagree with you and I think you’ll hear me when I say this. What it DID, is it further convinced the American people that the Bush Administration was responsible for the infrastructure collapsing. It was a very blatant


can figure out why these people are so upset, then maybe they wouldn’t want to blow us up anymore. And in fact, I have an article here from Newsweek. This is June 2nd, 2008, and it’s written by a Muslim; his name is Fareed Zakaria, and the title of the article is: The Only Thing We Have to Fear. And what he actually demonstrates here is that the actual amount of terrorism that’s happening in the world has substantially decreased. However, our controlled media is cooking the books by using the war deaths in Iraq, calling all those deaths terrorism deaths. When in fact, it says here the number of Islamist attacks has actually declined 65% from its high point in 2004. Fatalities from such attacks have declined by 90%. So the Iraq deaths account for 80% of all the terrorism deaths that are being counted. So what’s happening is, in fact, fewer and fewer people are committing these atrocities. Fewer and fewer deaths are happening from terrorism. The world is actually getting safer and the only place where it’s still really messed up is in Iraq, where we’re trying to occupy this country. So, the whole idea that we’re in this dangerous world and that there’s all these rabid fundamentalists out there, that are trying to kill us, is becoming less and less true. Even the people who would be inclined to want to join these rabid fundamentalist groups are not doing it. They’re veering away from it, because everybody wants to see the planet move to peace. Nobody wants to see this crap happen anymore. And these guys who would have been terrorists are now seeing, hey, if I were to successfully attack America all it’s going to do is give them an excuse to seize more power, declare Martial Law, try to throw people into camps -- and all this ridiculous Nazi-fantasy stuff that I highly doubt will ever happen. And I think that, no matter what happens in this election, we win. And by “WE”, I mean people who desire to have freedom and desire to stay alive and be unmolested. If McCain steals the election by some sort of voting voodoo using the Diebold voting machines, whatever, that STILL will lead to the same outcome, which is it would be the catalyst to finally mobilize the public to no longer put up with this ridiculous stuff that’s been going on. Plus you have Fulford saying they’ve narrowed it down to, like, 50 guys now, that either needs to be captured or killed. And by knocking out these 50 guys, you basically solve the problem. And I think what they’re trying to do now is to capture them, rather than kill them. But the point being that they need to stand trial or, at least, maybe they won’t even have to have that to happen. One of Fulford’s deals was just stop what you’re doing, let go of the control, we’ll let you go back to your palaces and your mansions, but you just can’t mess with the world anymore. And you know that kind of amnesty might be what’s required to get this thing to work. I don’t know. But what I’m saying is, the rest of the world is not going to put up with it. Everybody’s waiting for the election. Regardless of how the election turns out, things are going to be very different after that, because they’re not going to be allowed to do this anymore. And again, the reason why, in my opinion, the crop circles are flagging August 16th is that’s when Russia basically got all these documents that they WILL use -- if McCain steals the election in particular -- to basically bring the whole thing down. Plus, there was one thing I forgot to say. Let me just say this, it’s a little side note. Now that they don’t have the Looking Glass, they can’t see the future anymore. They can’t predict what’s going happen. That’s why they lost to Russia and Georgia, because they did not have the technology anymore to see the future. They didn’t know that Russia was going to blitzkrieg them like that. They didn’t see that McCain was going pull an end-run on them and declare somebody his nominee that they’d never vetted. Both of these things are SUBSTANTIAL attacks that would have been prevented if they still had the Looking Glass operational, but they don’t. And again, I find it very intriguing what you’re saying that there’s even a coup within the American house itself, where McConnell is now leading the factions trying to stop this stuff also. K: Ok, David I have to say that there IS a problem with the overall thing here in regard to the Rothschilds being, as Benjamin would say, in a sense, the good guys in this scenario. D: Oh, I did NOT say that at all and, if you heard that, you misheard me. K: Ok, well in the sense that they are not the rabid Nazis that the faction that came over to the U.S. D: No, I disagree, so we’re probably on the same page, but go ahead. K: Right, right. Well let me say what I have to say here. We have this insider named “Hawkeye” and you may have read his material. What he talks about, he calls them the Roths ... D: OK, right ... K: ... all the time and, basically, he is the Roths’ boy in the sense that he is coming to us as a whistleblower but, at the same time, he is doing their bidding and he is saying, he has said – and, you know, you can read it on our blog where we put most of his posts -- he is, in essence, saying that it’s the Rothschilds’ agenda to bring down the United States government. To bring down the United States and put it under the Rothschilds once and for all. D: Absolutely, that’s the whole plan. K: And that the concentration camps and the very dark side of what may come down is BECAUSE of the Rothschilds and that IS their agenda as well. D: I would probably agree insofar as the Rockefeller faction is less likely to actually want to throw people in camps. They do want the power, but, in general, they try to paint themselves as the more pleasing of the two societies, less inclined to try to go in this evil direction. They basically try to justify what they’re doing as that they’re fighting this menace, which is on the Rothschild side. Now, in order to more fully explore what you’ve now brought up, we have to get into the fact that, essentially, both sides of this


equation, the Rockefellers and the Rothschilds, have gone bankrupt. And when you go back to the Svali materials, she, in my opinion, is the most thoroughly documented Illuminati whistleblower ever to come forward. She has 2 complete books worth of material that she published. She also has a whole series of articles that she published and they are very specific and very detailed. Now, she actually outlines how the Rothschild side makes its’ money. And it goes into pharmaceuticals; it goes into illegal gun trade; it goes into human trafficking; it goes into the drug trade; it goes into big media, like Hollywood; big music, like the music industry, particularly, apparently, country music is one of the most heavily-compromised industries within this business. There’re several key elements. So essentially, the Rothschild side is heavily invested in the media and in the pharmaceuticals and in the illicit weapons trade. Well you just heard me read you a statistic that shows that the demand for these illicit weapons is plummeted by 74%. Much fewer of these attacks are happening, so that trade is falling apart. The drug trade is actually falling apart. More and more people are cleaning up. Business is not what it used to be. The pharmaceutical industry is in terrible trouble. So, Hollywood is collapsing. This past weekend was the worst sales they’ve had since, I believe, 2004 for that particular weekend. The music industry has completely collapsed because of illegal downloading. The controlled press with the newspapers is collapsed, because of things like Craig’s List. The television is collapsed, essentially, because of streaming video like YouTube and what we’ve done together. So what you’re seeing again, fundamentally, is the whole economy is shifting away from centralized power making huge profits and towards decentralized power, in which true economic growth can occur, because it’s much more evenly balanced. And so that’s why, again, in my opinion, and from what I’ve been shown from my own guidance, for what it’s worth, there’s a 2-step process that’s happening here. Step 1 is the collapse of the Rockefeller side. Step 2 is the collapse of the Rothschild side. The step one needs to happen first, because these guys have the most potential to do the greatest damage right now. Step 2, I don’t think is far behind. And I do believe that, like with Fulford’s faction, and just with the dawning public awareness, their plans will not work. Because if you actually get into what the Rothschild side wants: first of all, they are devotedly Luciferian, which is essentially Satanic. They want a New World Order where they are seen as gods and liberators. They want us to ACCEPT them that way. They want to create a global economic collapse, which is their script that, by creating this collapse first, that they will then be seen as our rescuers. And in so rescuing us they will basically come out of the closet, say here’s who we are, here’s what we’re doing. These are your leaders, these 13 families which are at the head of the thing. And we want to be, you know, we want to be your benevolent gods on the planet. And it’s like they’re so wrapped up in their own cult that they don’t realize - everyone who’s not a part of it - it’s a complete fantasy. Nobody’s going to want to go along with it. Even though they’ve created so many movies that promote their agenda -- and one of the all time best movies, which is not a very good movie, entertainment-wise, but one of the most blatant movies they ever made, was Daredevil, with Ben Affleck. That movie is an Illuminati handbook from the 1st frame to the last frame, every single shot. K: Eyes Wide Shut is another paramount example. D: Oh, absolutely. That was where Kubrick was trying to blow the whistle and come out with all sorts of information to sort of show what was going on. But again, it’s probably the case of, you know, one group against another kind of thing. So no, in no way would I ever want to be seen to be overtly supporting the Rothschild faction as in any way benevolent or the good guys. All I’m saying is that it appears that what’s happening right now is that, for a short time, they will appear to win. They will appear to pull into the lead and bring down the Rockefeller faction. But they also are very weak. They also have lost strength of their own membership; their own members want to get out badly. Most of the people in this group are not there by choice, but they’re there because they were born into it. And if they tried to escape, they would be killed. And they don’t like it. And I think your friend, Hawkeye, is just one of many examples. In this case somebody who’s very high ranking, apparently, from what you’re telling me, who still is, like, betraying his own socalled family, because he doesn’t want to be involved in this thing either. It may appear that I’m coming at this from a sort of Pollyanna, glass-half-full perspective. And I can hear people that want to say that to me. And that’s ok. All I’m saying is that part of what informs my opinion is a very reliable and consistent intuitive track record in which I have been given extensive information on the Rothschild faction. In fact, I’ve studied them intuitively a lot more than the Rockefeller side. The Rockefeller side is... a lot of that I’ve learned from actually talking to people who are in it. Whereas the Rothschild side, I got to talk Svali a little bit, but most of it has come from dedicated research and also intuitive viewing, which then has been borne out in terms of the changes in the economy that we’re seeing. So I do feel that the planet is moving in a positive direction. I do feel that these groups are being exposed. And that part of what’s happening at this time in humanity is a mass awakening in which people are learning about this stuff. And from knowledge comes a healing -- because you can only sustain a conspiracy for so long. The Cosa Nostra [ La Cosa Nostra ] was, you know, the Italian mafia, used to be a secret society. It all fell apart and now everybody make movies about it. And I think what you’re going to see with all these secret factions are the same thing. The internet has basically brought them down already. I mean everybody knows what’s going on. It’s amazing that these guys, as Fulford has said, haven’t already been dragged into the streets. And so any of these groups that are basically anti life. That are trying to genocide the planet to reduce population, for whatever reason they feel they need to. All that stuff is unraveling. And again, some people might want to call me naïve but when you


have something happen like, hey go read page a hundred in book III, and you find out that, on that exact day, it’s been 720 cycles of 18 days since you were born. It’s one of those consistent exclamation points that I keep getting to show me that I’m on the right track, that my information is reliable. So, there you have it. [Laughs] K: Ok, David, thank you so much. Bill, did you have any other questions? B: I’ve got a bunch and I’m sure, Kerry, you have, too; but this is actually a 2 hour conversation -- my feeling is it’s not actually appropriate to take it in a whole host of different directions, because we easily all could and we could have a barrel of fun doing it. K: Yeah. Absolutely B: But this feels like a very concise presentation which will help people’s understanding -- like as an understanding aid to help interpret a lot of the events which have been happening and which may happen in the immediate future -- which is what a lot of our listeners will appreciate this for. And it seems like this recording has worked pretty well. It would be fun to do it another time David, if your ever interested in having another conversation. We’ve got a lot of questions stored up and you’ve probably got a lot more stored up to say. What do you think? D: It’s sort of regrettable in one sense that there IS SO much exposition required to just establish the basic discussion as I’ve now done, in terms of all this different research that’s come together from so many different sources. And I agree that you must have hundreds and hundreds of questions coming out of all this. What I can say is, as you guys already know, unfortunately, our paths are not crossing favorably, because I’m leaving on Thursday for 2 weeks. I’ll be back on the 25th of September. I’m working in the studio on a vocal music album called Wanderer Awakening, but after that time, I would be more than happy to continue this discussion. And, by then, you probably will have a whole litany of questions from your discussion forum of people wanting to know more about this or that or the other. And I also have said to you guys that I’d like to be put in touch with Benjamin Fulford, if possible, because I think some of the things he’s talked about in terms of how the world is changing in a positive direction dovetail nicely with what I know and I think he’d be interested to hear what I have to say on that stuff. So I hope that will happen. I also, of course, speak a little Japanese and used to have a Japanese girlfriend, so there’re some interesting crossovers there. K: We’ll definitely put you in touch with Benjamin, that’s not a problem at all. The only thing I want to say here, David, is that, unlike what Bill is saying in terms of questions, I think what we would have are alternate points of view, things to add and to get into things a little deeper, you know, from differing points of view. I think that’s what we would bring to the table. I appreciate that you’re happy to do that as well. And there’re so many others like us doing the same thing right now and that’s part of the wonderful puzzle that we’ve got going on here, that there are people coming forward, truth tellers -people putting themselves on the line to tell the truth and this is what makes your research possible and actually Project Camelot possible. And so we’ll do this again soon. D: Yeah, and I just again want to say “thank you” for creating a platform in which people who have something to share like myself can come forward and be able to give their perspective and be heard. Of course I do that on my own website and I also have consistently been gratified by the efforts that you guys have made to seek out these witnesses and interview them. I think you’ve done a great job and I’m glad to continue to share my perspective with you so sometime after September 25th, when I get back from my studio work on the album we’ll continue the conversation. I look forward to it. K: Great. Take care, David. Thanks a lot. D: Thank you guys so much. It’s been a great pleasure.




Project Camelot: Miriam Delicado “Alien Blue Star” Interview Transcript
Miriam Delicado: Miriam Blue Star Sedona, Arizona, September 2008
... There are people all over the Earth that have had experiences similar to mine, and we’re all waiting for the right time to stand up in unity – In Unity – and come forward and speak to the world. ... and immediately this rush came over me. I thought: Ahhhh... this is it. And he said: Have you ever worked for the CIA or the FBI? And of course, I’m 22 years old. I don’t want to have anything to do with this. I’m thinking: Why is this happening to me? So what makes this fascinating is that as a child growing up, my father on numerous occasions had told me a story of him being on the streets of Paris during the war – because of course he’s from Europe – and how a man approached him. And what my father said was that they asked him to become part of this Psychic Army, the Russian Psychic Army. And he kept saying to me: If they ever come to you, do not go with them. Do you understand? Don’t ever go with them, because if you do, they will own you. ... I was shown an image of being in an underground base that... what took place there was so dark and ugly and horrifying to me that it was difficult for me to deal with. ... What are you doing here? Why can’t you just leave me alone? And then I walked on board the craft. ... The knowledge is that we’re not alone, that we’re being watched, that what we’re doing is being looked upon by other beings that do have a certain amount of knowledge that we ourselves do not have. ... I have seen the future through them, with their assistance. ... I believe that because we are being awakened to begin sharing this information with people, that there are great changes that are coming and that we need to all understand that. Whether it was going to be a meteor hitting the Earth, or whether it was going to be war breaking out, or whether it was going to be famine, or there was going to be Earth changes that took place – any of these things -- that man had the ability to change this timeline of what it was that was going to be coming. Start of interview Kerry Cassidy: Hi, I’m Kerry Cassidy from Project Camelot, and we’re here with Miriam Delicado. And she’s got a website called Alienbluestar.com, and she’s got a very interesting story to tell. She’s a contactee and she has a special relationship with the Hopi and the Mayan peoples, as we will see as we go forward.

Miriam Delicado was contacted at an early age by benevolent, tall blond extraterrestrials, apparently singled out specifically for a very special role. She was advised by them to keep a low profile for many years, and finally last year, 2007, she was told by them that it was time for her to write her book: Alien Blue Star. With that, Miriam became a minor sensation as thousands of people sensed that her book seemed to have been written for each of them personally. And now Miriam is a woman on a mission: driven, articulate, passionate, and powerful, she tells a riveting story of her very real and physical contact with a highly advanced, Guardian race, and the information she was asked to pass on. Miriam is aware that there are others of her kind. The message is aimed at all people and holds special significance for what George Green labeled the Ground Crew*: that we are nearly in what the Hopi - with whom Miriam has established a special affinity and allegiance - called the End Times; that our planet and our civilization are in great danger; and that (so far, at the time of writing) timelines do not appear to have changed... although it is always within our gift to create whatever future we collectively wish. We feel similarly driven, and it's our great privilege to assist her in her purpose by presenting this video. This may be one of the the most powerful and important interviews we have done. * George's term, not Miriam's. George and Miriam have never met. But it is clear to us that it's the same group of people that each addresses with the same urgency, and with almost the same message ... I don’t want to be talking to you. I really don’t. I wish I could put on a mask and not be here. But I am, because in my heart, in my mind, in my entire being, I know that we are on a path that is frightening.


Hi, Miriam, how are you today? M: Very well, thank you. Thank you so much for having me, Kerry. K: Absolutely. It’s a real pleasure. I’ve read your book. It’s a wonderful book. And why don’t you just start at the beginning, whatever feels comfortable, and tell the people your story? And let’s go from here. Miriam Delicado: Okay. To start, it’s a very, very big story and it’s difficult for me to be able to convey to people the story of my life, which is what I tried to do a little bit in my book, Blue Star, is give people an overview of many of the things that have happened to me. I’ve had a very interesting past twenty years of my life, where I’ve had numerous contacts with extraterrestrials from other places. And often people have asked me where it is that these beings are from. And that’s a very big question, so we’ll get into that in a little bit. But to give the viewers an overview: You know, my life started out very strange right from the very beginning, and my life was not an ordinary one when I was growing up. I first started to notice that I was different probably when I was about two years old. And I actually have memories that could take me all the way back to being a baby as well as... Most of my remembering came back to me when I was about two. So when I was probably about 9 years old my psychic abilities started to kick in and numerous strange things started to happen to me. I was having very vivid dreams and all sorts of things along those lines that I really couldn’t explain. I used to play this little game when I was a child, about watching the people in the cars... as I was driving past them in a car. And I would try to think of what they were saying or thinking in their heads. And when I did that, it was fascinating to me, some of the things that I would hear them thinking about. But at the same time I was always scared that they would know that I was, you know, probing into their minds, and I never wanted to get caught doing that. So that’s a very, very clear memory for me ever since I was very, very young. It’s not something that I do now. It’s not something that I do consciously, ever, at any point, because of course I would have to ask someone’s permission in order to do that. So right from the very beginning I was a little bit different. And as my life moved forward, these abilities of mine just became stronger and stronger. And by the time I was a teenager, I was doing all sorts of things. I was having dreams that were prophetic. And, you know, to use terms that people would understand, I saw a number of visions that actually came true within a very short period of time. And I also had encounters with, sort of, beings that I wasn’t clear with where they were from or what focus they... where they came from. And it was really unnerving for me growing up, because even though I knew that my father had some sort of abilities as well, I wasn’t close enough to him to be able to talk to him about it. And that made my earlier years very difficult, just for that reason alone. Now, my father was an interesting character in my life because he seemed to possess certain abilities as well. And when we were kids we were always, you know, a little bit nervous around him, thinking that he would always know what we were doing. So when -- jumping way forward into my life, into the year 1988, which is 20 years ago, it was interesting when I did have this encounter on the highway in northern British Columbia with extraterrestrials. And this was a physical encounter that took place that changed my entire life. But when it happened, it was almost immediate that I knew that my father had had contact, simply because... A number of the things that I was told by these beings, my father used to talk about when we were kids all the time -- about how the world would eventually change, and how we needed to learn how to survive, and what it is that we needed to do. This type of thing. So I always knew that he’d had contact. K: Didn’t he also work for the, you know, an agency, a secret... you know, in Intel in some capacity? M: Not that I’m aware of. K: Because you talk about him being approached. And he also warned you about being approached at some point. Isn’t that right? M: Yes. K: And how do you know that unless, you know, you’ve been approached? M: That was a very interesting story that my father used to tell me as a child. It was a fascinating story that always, you know, made me really nervous and I had no clue as to what he was talking about. So what I need to do is step forward, past 1988. It was a couple of years later and I was working at a little yogurt shop. And this is a really fascinating piece to this puzzle of my life, and even I myself am still, to this day, made a little bit wary of it. So the year was, you know, a couple of years after 1988 and I was working in this yogurt shop. And I was just having a normal day, or I was trying to. And this man walked past the window of the shop and he looked directly at me, into my eyes. And when he did, he came right in the door, walked right up to me, looked me straight in the eye, and he said: Do you work for the CIA or the FBI? And I said: No. I don’t. And immediately this rush came over me, and I thought: Ahhhh... this is it. And he said: Have you ever worked for the CIA or the FBI?


And of course, I’m 22 years old. I don’t want to have anything to do with this. I’m thinking: Why is this happening to me? I said: No. I haven’t. And then he proceeded to tell me... He said: Have you ever thought about working for the Russians? And of course I said: Absolutely not. And he then proceeded to tell me how the Russians had been working with people like myself for a very long time. And that if I joined them, that I would never be alone again, that I would be surrounded with people that were like me. And I said I was not interested. And what he was talking about was the Psychic Program. And he said that the Psychic Program had been going on for a very long time, and of course I knew all about this. And I very nicely, politely, with a smile on my face, looked at this man and said that +I was not interested. And he kept pushing and saying: Do you know how strong you are? And I smiled at him. I said: Yes, I do know how strong I am. And he said: But can you control your abilities? And I said: Actually, I can. And then he said that they would still be very much interested in working with me. And I told them that there was no way. I said: What I would like you to do is go back to the people that sent you here, thank them very much for their interest and tell then that there’s no point in ever coming back because I will never be interested. So what makes this fascinating is that as a child growing up, my father on numerous occasions had told me a story of him being on the streets of Paris during the war – because of course he’s from Europe – and how a man approached him. And what my father said was that they asked him to become part of this Psychic Army, the Russian Psychic Army. And he kept saying to me: If they ever come to you, do not go with them. Do you understand? Don’t ever go with them, because if you do, they will own you. You can’t run and you can’t hide because they will find you with their minds. And so of course I was always very frightened by this. And it didn’t make any sense to me growing up. But in that moment, as soon as the man walked into the store and said: Do you work for the CIA or the FBI? I knew exactly who he was, what he was there to ask me, and I was very adamant that I was not interested. And I’m not interested for anyone to do something along those lines. K: Okay. Yeah. I remember that story from your book and I think it’s a real bell-ringer. I think your father had... what? Maybe Native American blood somewhere in there? He’s certainly got, I don’t know, European... What would you say your background is, just in terms of genetics, I guess? M: My mother is German and, as far as I know, all the way back she’s German. My father is Yugoslavian. And, as far as I know... His family history going far, like way, way, way back, I believe that there’s some interesting blood there. But for me to say anything for certain would not be fair to him or to anyone because I am not sure. But as far as Native American blood goes, no, I don’t believe that there is. But, with his bloodline, if there’s anyone interested in looking it up that would be able to go very far back, meaning, you know, even thousands of years, I think that it would be fascinating to see where it led. K: Okay. So let’s go to your incident in 1988 and tell a little more about that, kind of capsulate it, if you will. M: In 1988 I was living a very normal, average life as a young adult. I’d just moved from a small town into the big city in Vancouver, British Columbia. And my friends and I had decided to take a road trip to my home town. And on the way up there, everything was normal. We took the drive and everything was fine. But on the return journey everything, everything changed. There were four of us, four adults and a young child in the car. And the trip... we were driving for hours. I was sleeping in the back seat of the car. And then it started to get dark out. The people that were driving wanted a break, so they went into the back seat, and I went up into the front, into the passenger side with my friend. And right away these big balls of light... they looked like truck lights, actually; that’s what we thought that they were for the longest time... came streaming up behind us rather quickly in the car. And as that happened, we were wondering why they were traveling so fast. Now, these particular lights followed us for hours and hours in the darkness. And every time we came up to a car or any kind of house or buildings at all, the lights would fall back and disappear. So after hours of this going on, eventually we went through a town where we thought for sure that we had lost the lights. And as soon as we got to the other side of this town, into the forested area, the absolute moment we said: Okay, we’re clear. There’s no way they can catch up with us... and literally in the blink of an eye, there they were, these balls of light that were probably about this big. [holds hands about 12 inches apart] And they came up behind us. And then – poof -- and at this point, after hours they had been appearing and disappearing, appearing and disappearing, and in the blink of an eye. So my friend got very, very nervous, as I did. Neither one of us were comfortable with what was happening at all, and the people in the back seat were still sleeping. So all of a sudden I screamed at her and I said: Pull over the car right now! It’s not you they want. It’s me! And I went to grab the steering wheel to pull her over, when all of a sudden she just sort of flopped, you know, like a Raggedy Ann doll, flopped her head over and started pulling over and stopped at the side of the road.


And by that time the car filled with light from every direction. And these balls of light were sitting behind the car. So at that point -- I was the only one conscious at that time -- when I turned from the back of the car to the front, I saw a craft on the road. Now, I couldn’t make out any detail because it looked almost misty and very, very bright. And these beings that were about four feet tall walked... were walking towards me. They were very androgynous, almost childlike in their nature. And they had big round black eyes. They didn’t have any oval eyes at all. These were round black eyes. And they were directing me to get out of the car, which I did. And I was very scared. I wasn’t terrified though, and that distinction needs to be made. I was not terrified. I was scared. So I got out of the car. They led me down the highway a little bit, and at this point I wasn’t even thinking about my friends, I was just wondering where they were taking me. And on this embankment on the left... they led me up the embankment where I saw, when I looked up, a larger craft that had two beings standing in this doorway. And they had blond hair -- and I mean blond as in snow white hair -- and the most brilliant blue, Mediterranean water blue, eyes that you’ve ever seen, and quite incredible. And the beings, the short ones, took me to the craft, and when I got to the doorway I walked onboard the craft. But what was interesting was that just prior to all of this happening I’d had a dream in the back seat of the car. And in this dream that I had, this man and woman told me, they said: We are coming for you soon. Do not be afraid. We are your friends. We are your family. Do not be afraid. And then, when I saw these two tall beings, the moment that I laid eyes on them, I said in my mind: What are you doing here? Why can’t you just leave me alone? And then I walked onboard the craft. K: And did you have any memories of what happened on the craft at that point? M: From the moment I walked off that craft, I had very clear memories. And I have had those clear memories for twenty years. K: Clear memories of what happened on the craft? Or just clear memories up to the point you’ve told us? M: Both. Once I was onboard the craft, I remember a great deal of what happened to me. I do not by any means remember the full three hours. I don’t. And I don’t know if I ever will or not, because up to this point... I mean, I have not had hypnosis done to recover memories. So that’s a very important point for me to make to anyone watching, is that these memories have come from conscious memories. So, in other words, I walked onto the craft, I had this encounter. It took me some time, but I did come to realize that it was a total of three hours. It was very clear math that I did to work this out. So there was three hours of missing time. And I remember quite a bit of the information that they gave me at that time. There were, ah... There were things that have stayed with me so clearly that even as I’m looking at you I can still see the images in my mind every time I hear about ... you know... K: Can you give us an idea what was conveyed to you at that time? And does that have something to do with what you’re doing here now, visiting Sedona and Hopiland, the Four Corners area? M: It has everything to do with it. Twenty years ago I was given messages. And these messages and information that I was given were so crystal clear to me that two days after I walked off the craft I had a clear understanding of all of my psychic abilities, and where they came from, and how I had them, and why I had them. I had a great understanding of my father that I’d never had before in my life. I knew that he’d had contact. I had a clear understanding that there were many other people in the world that were like myself and that all of these things were related. And after two days I started writing quite a bit of this down. I did not by any means write it all down, but there were key points that I did put on paper. Now at the time, even with some of them, I did not understand the full extent of what it was in this information, but it was about the Four Corners area as being one of the “safe lands” in what they termed the End Times -- if these End Times came in the form that they were giving warnings about. So they gave me warnings about possible futures in which the planet could potentially have destruction, and the people could potentially have a very difficult time. Now, these warnings were just possibilities, but they were things that they had made very clear to me, crystal clear to me, that humanity had a choice in whether or not we were going to end up on this destructive path or a positive path. So, many of these things were told to me twenty years ago. But, getting into it a little bit deeper, they also told me a great deal about the Four Corners area in particular. So of course I did not, at that time as I was still trying to process all of this information, truly understand what it was that they were saying, how this particular area was a “safe land,” and how at this time there were certain people that would gather together in this area. The Four Corners area is a really important area to these beings and it is because it is one of the center points on the Earth where gatherings will take place for many people. And it does not necessarily mean that everyone needs to pack up, leave, and go to the Four Corners area because it’s a “safe land.” What it means is that, even if an individual travels through the area, they are going to be able to have information coming to them within their own selves in order to assist them and help them to know where it is they need to be on the planet.


If there is a great cataclysm that does take place, there are certain areas on the Earth that will be in safe zones. But that doesn’t mean that you’re going to be able to go there and be taken care of. What it means is that these areas will not have that great destruction, but it still will be in chaos. So that needs to be clarified to everyone and that there are these particular safe spots and safe lands all over the Earth. Now, the indigenous people all over the Earth have known these things for thousands of years, and they are the ones that have all of this knowledge as to where all of these particular areas are. And if we take a look at their myth stories, we are going to be able to find that information. And, at the same time, this has been guarded by them for thousands of years so that, if we needed the information, it would be made public for everyone. So it’s really important. The Hopi, as well as others on the planet, play a part in this. Now, there needs to be some very clear understanding here about what I’m going to say, because I do have friends that are in Hopi. And I have talked to people there, but by no means at all am I a spokesperson for them or do I speak on their behalf whatsoever. So what I’m going to do is, I’m going to share my experience with you. I’m not going to talk about Hopi. I’m going to share my experiences that revolve around them. K: Maybe you can tell us where the link up came? You were told by these beings in 1988, somehow. I assume this is when you were also told to come to Hopi at some point. There was also some kind of a, I don’t know if it was a stone or a necklace, or something that you had, and you buried in your back yard? Do you want to share that story before we kind of move into the bigger picture? M: Yes. The relationship between these beings and the Hopi, for example... Again, this is only from my experiences, and it’s fascinating. Even to me it’s fascinating. When I was onboard the craft, I was sitting in what I call a “light chair,” and it was... you could look at it just like this. [points to the chair she’s sitting on.] Except, instead of it being a chair, it was made from pure light, so it almost glowed. And I sat in this chair, and I looked across the room, and I had a being on either side of me. And a screen popped up. And the screen was actually quite large. It was probably about this... as large as the chair, and you know. Two or three feet high. And as I looked at the screen, there was information that came across it. And images. These images would be accompanied by information that was given to me by these beings, either through telepathy or -meaning they would directly speak to me -- or it felt like there was just a constant flow of information being sort of placed within my mind. Now, one of the things that they shared with me was the creation of man. And this is very much related to the Hopi and all of the indigenous people and ourselves. So, to make this story really short, they explained that they had a hand in creating mankind, but by no means were they God. That they were the helpers of this Earth to insure that... They were overseers, so that they would be here to watch over the Earth, to help man become more than what they currently are. So, in the beginning life was created but nothing came of it. So they... It’s like saying that they threw the seeds of life across the land just to see what would come up. And the idea was that a vessel would be made so that the sparks of life -- us -- could then enter and experience life in this world. But nothing ever came of it. In the Second World, they gave this life more form, but still thought that it would evolve into something more. And again nothing of any real value was produced. In the Third World that they created... And, again, these are the things that were shown and told to me. And in the Third World, they said that the form -- meaning our bodies -- were created, and then our souls would come into the bodies. And when they did, we had all this knowledge; we had all this ability to communicate with one another; we had telepathy; we had an understanding far beyond what we currently do right now. But it was like giving children matches to play with without allowing them to evolve, more along the lines of emotionally, and to be able to handle all of this knowledge. So they kind of went crazy. They played around too much. They were becoming destructive. And the things that they did were very dark and evil at that point. So again the world was sort of cleaned out, cleaned off, and again these new vessels were created -- meaning the vessels that we have now. So there’s been a slow evolution of “mankind” over time. As this took place, one of the things that happened was... In this Third World I was shown an image of these people. And it was sort of like looking from above. And I looked down into this room and I saw these people. And these people, I was told, were living the life that was intended, which was the spiritual life. And so, because they had this great knowledge, and because they had a true understanding of why they were here and the bodies that they had seemed to be doing very well, they were spared and taken from the Third World and brought into this, the Fourth World. Now, one of the things that happened in this vision is I was told that one day I would find these people and I would know what to do. So when I went into the Four Corners area for the very first time in 2003, I knew I had to go through Hopi but I really didn’t know why. The only thing I knew was that there was a reason for this, and it was a very big reason, and it was very, very important. So when I did go through Hopi, I had what I would call a “psychic flash,” where I saw some of these Hopi people and they changed right in front of my eyes. And it was in this flash that I had all of the visions that were given to me onboard the craft, as well as what they wanted me to do, as well as what was


happening on the Earth, where we came from, where we’re going. It was just mind blowing. It was so much. But most important, I realized that these were the people that they wanted me to find. I realized that the Hopi were these individuals that were taken – “individuals” meaning people -- that were taken from the Third World into the Fourth World, and that they had a great purpose at this time. S o it was no surprise to me that I came across them at all. And their role on the planet is very important for the future of everyone. It is my hope, and I hope with my heart, that all of us -- meaning the Hopi, the indigenous from all around the world, and everyone else that has an understanding and a caring and a passion and a desire to help this planet -- will truly come together and be able to save us from this destructive path that I was shown. K: You came to Hopi, though, and it was an interesting sort of series of events that put you there. And then also... and I don’t know, this may encompass beyond 2003... but your experience of meeting... And I don’t know his name. He’s an Hopi elder, I believe. And you ended up staying at his house. Do you want to tell a little of that story? Because its kind of... It’s really compelling, in the sense that here you are, a complete stranger, a white woman, walking into this tribal setting, and in some strange way they seem to have accepted you and welcomed you in. M: In 2004 I took a trip again by myself. And during this particular journey, I knew before I even went there what was going to happen. And I was very nervous. On the first trip I bought a ring at a little store in Hopi. And I went back there in 2004 and talked to the woman that sold me the ring. And I was trying to tell her some of these things that had happened to me. And the way that I talked about it was... I kept telling her I had these visions, or I had these dreams, and how I came to all this information. And she was really taken aback by the things that I was saying. And she said to me: I think you should speak to one of our elders. So she hummed and hawed about who she should send me to. And then she told me: Go to this mesa. This is where this person is. This is their name. And I was thinking: Oh wow. This is it. I knew this was going to happen. So I go up onto the mesa and I find this man. And he was not very impressed that I was at his door, initially. And he was kind of humming and hawing, like: What are you doing here? I can’t help you. And I said: No, I’m only here to share this with you. That’s it. And I thought: Ahhhh... . It was such a relief. It was such a relief in that moment because I had to wait for him to bring it up. And I said: Yes. And he said: Okay. Okay, now talk to me. Now tell me this story. So I continued talking to him, and he appeared to understand and know what it was that I was talking to him about. And at that point, you know, after I had been speaking to him for hours, he looked at me and he said: Why are you here? And I said: I’m here to share with you. And he said: No. Why are you here? I don’t understand. And he was just kind of shaky about it. And I said: Well I’m only here to share this story with you. And he said: You know, I have had people come from all over the world. He has himself, as well as Hopis. They have people come from all over the world. And he said: They come with similar stories, but not like this. He said: All of them come here and they ask me questions. And you haven’t asked me a single question. Why? And I said: What could I possibly ask you that I don’t already have the answer to? So that made him even more nervous. And it’s not because I believe that I have all of the answers. It is because I know that for myself I don’t need a Hopi to tell me something. I know what I need to know and I’m content with that. Now, what happened after being with him for some time is even more fascinating, because I left at one point. He asked me to leave because someone came to his home. And I walked out of his house. And I walked along the mesa, at which time I started walking towards the Hopi woman’s home who sold me the ring. She told me where she lived. Her daughter was outside. So I started talking and sitting with her daughter. And very quickly after that she started speaking Hopi to one of her friends. And I think it was that moment that I said to myself: That’s it. There is absolutely not an ounce of questioning left anymore. Because in that moment she said a word in Hopi that I recognized as being one of the words that these tall blond aliens spoke to me. And I asked the little girl. I said: What does that mean? And she said: It’s thank you; saying thank you to a woman in Hopi. And I said: Wow. That’s amazing. So I again started this amazing story, about how I had these visions and dreams about certain things and how I found them to be completely related to Hopi prophecies. And that they weren’t just related. They were almost – almost -- identical in their nature. And the story of their creation story, again, exactly the same as what these tall blond entities and beings had told me. So I was telling him all of this. And then finally he looked at me and he said: Wait a minute. Are you talking about... ? He kind of leaned across the table and said: Are you talking about aliens?


So the two of us were walking around for a little while, and I went in to get a pop from this little place, something to drink. And when I was in this area, I all of a sudden heard in my head: What are you doing here? Very clearly, as if someone was standing right beside me. And when I looked to my right at this long counter, there standing at the counter was one of these beings: Blond hair, blue eyes. They’re probably about, I don’t know, 6’ 4”, built as if they were, you know, had been working out for their entire lives -- just really, really strong looking. And he stared at me and said: What are you doing here? And I again said: Well, I’m coming home. What are you doing here? You know... Why are you asking me? type of thing. And there was no conversation with him, but I knew who he was, completely. And I wanted to walk up to him and say: Oh, what are you doing here? Let’s sit down and talk. But again I just kept walking with this little girl, thinking: No. It’s not the right time. I was walking out of this area and I said to the little girl: Did you see that man in there? [She said]: Yeah. I said: Did you recognize him? She said: No, I’ve never seen him before. And I said: Okay. So I thought: Wow. That is so strange. There’s something about that that I’d like to share that’s not in the book, which is fascinating, that has to do with this. But to continue, I went back to this elder’s home. And when I did, I said to him: This is what happened when I was with the little girl. I heard this word being said as one of these words that these beings spoke to me in. So there I was, sitting at this elder’s table, and out of my back pocket I pulled out a piece of paper and I opened it up. And I said: This is the language that they spoke to me in. And I pushed the piece of paper over to him. So he tried to... I said: They’re all phonetically written because I didn’t know how to write this. And he said: Well, why don’t you just tell me what the words are? So I read them out. And as I did, at least 6 of the words on the piece of paper were Hopi. One for sure, I know for sure, is Navajo. And he told me that other words that were on this piece of paper that he thought were Navajo words. So these beings... In 1988, when I’d never had any exposure to Hopis or Navajos in any way, shape, or form, as a 22-year-old young girl living a very normal life, these beings spoke to me in a language that I knew for twenty years at this point today. I knew all that time that one day I would find the people whose language this belonged to. I just didn’t expect them to be Hopis. I always thought that I’d find them in the jungles of South America or something. [Kerry laughs] So, this being that I saw in the mesa... What happened after that trip in 2004 when I returned home was, I went for dinner with a friend of mine, and I was telling him all about my journey and that type of thing. We took a drive in his car. Him and his wife were in the front seat. And in the back seat I was sitting behind the driver, and his nine-year-daughter was to the right of me. So, as we’re driving down a very busy street in Vancouver, very busy street, one of the major streets, a Jeep rolls up beside the car. And as it does, I looked, and there sitting in the car was this blond being, blond-haired, blue-eyed being, that was sitting and completely... head cocked to the one side and looking at me directly, without looking at the road at all. Didn’t look at the road at all. Just sat there and... with his head... just stared at me. And I thought: No way. That’s all I could think. But here’s the great thing. The little girl said: Oh my god. Look at that man. He looks so weird. He doesn’t even look human. [laughs] K: [laughs] M: Everyone in the car just sat back and thought... you know, was quickly trying to get a glimpse of this man. And so, then again, there I was having confirmation by another individual of all of these things. And during a two-week period after I returned from that trip, I had three encounters like that: one in a store, one on the public transit bus, and then the one in the car with my friends. Very strange. Very, very strange. Even to me it’s fascinating. K: Okay. Maybe we could just kind of move ahead now to a little more current and what you’ve been hearing, and maybe share a little bit about the fact that you’ve... how you’ve began to come forward. And especially how you got to write your book. Because I have to say that I came across you via... I think I heard you on a radio show briefly, and then I saw your site. I saw your face, and I knew instantly that we should talk. And it was a drawing of your face; it wasn’t actually you. But I just had a connection, and I just knew. But the book... then I got the book and that just confirmed what I’d thought. So can you tell me about the writing of the book? M: Big question. Very important question. And especially relevant for today. The whole purpose behind writing this book was... First of all, it was a request made by them. So in 1988 when I was onboard that craft, I was actually asked by them to do this. They asked me to come forward and share this story, to tell people who they were and where they were from, so that if and when the time came that... if they had to make their presence known on a global scale... that we would not be afraid.


So this was very important to them. This was the whole purpose for them sharing the knowledge that they did with me and helping me to try to understand the Earth, to understand ourselves, and to understand them. The reason that it was written at this time was... I have to give you a bit of a timeline. In 1988 I had what I call my awakening encounter, and that is the point where everything sort of stems from. I always revert back to 1988 when I’m describing to people what has happened. So I’m told in 1988 all of these things and asked to share them. So I started doing some of these things that they’d asked of me. And then all of a sudden they said: No, no, no. Stop, stop, stop, stop. Quiet, quiet, quiet. No more talking. And I knew that eventually one day I would be told when the right time was to come forward and start sharing this . So, at the very beginning of 2003, I was sort of woke up one morning. They said: Okay, it’s time. It’s time. It’s time to go to the Four Corners area -- whatever that meant, I was not sure. But it was time for me to... what I would say, for lack of a better term, to start my work. So that happened in 2003. And after that, of course, encounter with the Hopi elder, and as well as a number of other things that happened prior to that in the Four Corners area that were related to 1988, I said: Okay. I must start writing. So the process began. Now, they’ve given me information. And that, again, starts to step into what I believe has to do with the indigenous people of the Earth because of what these beings told me. And they said that in the “End Times” that there would be many changes that would take place. So... They’re on many different levels. They’re not just one. And it’s not simple to describe these things. I was told that one of them would be on a spiritual level, changes would begin to take place. On a physical level changes would begin. And also on an Earth basis, for the Earth itself, that changes would happen. So all of these things were sort of being correlated and being written by humanity itself in the path that we are to take. For example, that there were the possibility that war would break out, for example. This is something that really disturbs me. It scares me. It upsets me. And even as I say this I could cry because... And I might just cry. [voice breaks, choked up] K: It’s okay. Go ahead. M: Because if anyone were to have lived the life that I have for the past twenty years, to have had the experience after experience after experience, confirmation after confirmation after confirmation, of all of these things, they too would not hesitate in anything, to help in whatever way they could to stop this process. Because we have a responsibility... as human beings. I was told that we have a responsibility to do what we can to save this Earth. We’re not the saviors of the Earth. We’re supposed to be the caretakers of the Earth. We’re here to be the stewards of this land. That is part of why we are here, to be able to experience one another and the Earth itself. But the way that we are living our lives, based in things like greed as being the primary focus for most people, we’ve forgotten about why it is that we are supposed to be here to begin with. And that is the beauty of each other and of this land. And one of the things that I always ask people, every single person, and I say to them: You really need to ask yourself this question. Are you happy? It’s a very simple question. The answer is what gets very complicated. Because, as it was explained to me by these beings, humanity was on a path, a collision course, and if we didn’t change it, this was going to be the end result: Destruction. In whatever form... whether it was going to be a meteor hitting the Earth, or whether it was going to be war breaking out, or whether it was going to be famine, or there was going to be Earth changes that took place -- any of these things -- that man had the ability to change this timeline of what is was that was going to be coming. Now people have said to me: Well, you’re trying to create a prophecy, or you’re talking about prophecy. But here’s the thing. For anyone out there that understands even remotely the smallest amount of this, this is easy to understand, what it is that’s happened here. We’ve been given a gift, a very

Then in 2007, near the beginning of the year, I had quite a few messages given to me in many different forms. They came to me in dreams. They came to me, you know, in my head saying: You need to finish the book, you need to finish the book, you need to finish the book. And they told me that it was very important that I had it done by November. And I really didn’t know why. But they said November, 2007, I had to have the book done by, because there was a timeline of what was going to be taking place on the planet. So I pushed and pushed and pushed myself in many ways to be able to have this task completed, which, just under the wire, I have done. So the book was done. I finished writing it. And then I was told to begin sharing this story with whomever would listen. Now, I was told in 1988 that I was to find the others like myself, and that we were to come together and that these gatherings would begin.


special gift. And that is the gift of seeing beyond where we currently are. Now, if we stay on the same path, they’ve said this is going to be the end result. But the gift is, if we can change the course that we have been on, then all of these things will be averted, and they will not happen. So this is the reason for the book. This is the reason that I’ve come forward. Because I don’t want to be talking to you. I really don’t. I wish I could put on a mask and not be here. But I am, because in my heart, in my mind, in my entire being, I know that we are on a path that is frightening. And some people get scared. I’m not scared. These tears are not fear. These tears are very much sadness, because I have seen the future through them, with their assistance. So I hope that we will be able to come together as humanity to change that. And I believe... I believe that we still can. I don’t think that it’s possible at this point in time to stop everything. I think that we have come to a time where it has become apparent, and is becoming more apparent every day, that we are on a collision course in many different areas. Our food supplies have in the course of the last year become scarce in certain areas in the world. Things like Rice, Mad Cow Disease, the Avian Flu. The list goes on. These things are all becoming apparent to everyone in the world. Fuel -- the cost of fuel, gas prices affecting everyone in the world. But all of these things can be changed very easily. And that is how we are going to change the Earth -- with helping one another. K: Okay. So you have a mission and you’re on your mission and here we are. This is October. Actually not October. This is September of 2008. Right? And it’s a beautiful world outside my door today. However, there are a lot of things going on right now as we speak. The American economy is going in the tank. There is possible war with Iran right, you know, behind our backs could be happening, could be gearing up. And there are other things as well. So how is this impacting your sense of what you’re doing, what your, sort of, your set mission, and what the next milestones are, if you will, that you are planning to get to? M: Considering that this is 2008, that’s a very interesting question for me, because it has been... I don’t even know how many years, and I don’t even know if it relates back to 1988... but at some point in this course of my life in the last twenty years, 2008 has been a year that has stuck with me. Because I have known for years that between August of 2008 and November 2008 that there would be major changes on the Earth. And what I mean is... I’m not talking about changes of the Earth itself, but of the people. And maybe in some form it would have something to do with the United States. Now, I made this very public statement in January of this year. I said that these things were coming and that they would involve the United States. And what the United States did, and what happened here, would affect the entire world forever. So, considering that the American economy is doing as it is, and the price of oil that does have to do with the United States in part, there are... we are at the beginning of a flow that is not going to be easily rectified, if at all. So what people need to understand is that these things were told to me years and years and years ago. And so what I’m saying is that 2008, there’s going to be economic repercussions across the Earth that are never going to be fully recovered. So that’s the first change. I’ve also seen that there are the possibilities of changes taking place on a global scale of things that are more geared towards the political structure of the Earth, in the next... probably 4 to 6 months... that there were going to be some changes that were going to be taking place around this time. So that finishes off 2008. It’s like a precursor to what’s to come. Now, the other year that I’m concerned concern over since 1988, is not 2012 as me. 2012, to myself, in the knowledge these beings, is not a specific date for about. with, and I’ve had great people have often asked that I’ve been given by me to be even thinking

However, the year 2010 is. So what is coming in 2010? I’m often asked this. And all I know is that there is the potential of great destruction all over the Earth. Can I say that that’s war? No. I will not say that. Can I say that it is a meteor coming? I cannot say that. What I am saying is that humanity has a role to play in how this turns out in 2010. So let’s say that 2010 rolls around and nothing happens. You know what? I am not going to sit here and say: Oh I was wrong. I am going to be clapping in glee that we have averted what it is that I have seen for all this time. So it is never too late. The eleventh hour is going to be the eleventh hour until the moment that it happens. So we always have time. We always have the ability to change something. And I believe that... From all of this knowledge that I’ve learned, and all of these things that have been shown to me, I know that we have the ability to work together to make changes on the Earth that are going to be lasting, that will bring back the happiness and joy that we came here to be able to experience, that we’ll put a structure in place for our families and our communities that is geared towards caring for one another and for the Earth itself. And this particular time that we’re in right now, it is critical that we begin to understand that we need to take responsibility on an individual basis, that we as individuals do have the power to change the Earth in a way that is going to be beneficial to our children, in a way that is going to be beneficial to the people that are coming after us.


And people ask me: Why is it and what is it that makes this time special? And it is because we are being given the choice, the choice of how our path is going to lead us and take us, and where the end is going to be. If we decide that we are going to continue to be greed-filled... Look into the future! It doesn’t take much. You can see that there’s no real way out of this situation that we’re in unless we make some changes. So how do we do that? How do we make changes? And I tell people -- very important. People that come here to Project Camelot. It’s a prime example. It’s called education. The most important thing that an individual can do is educate themselves. And I am not talking just about political issues, or issues that have to do with extraterrestrials, but I’m talking about educate yourself as to who you are as a person. Educate yourself as to how to live, how to build a home, how to grow food. Put your hands in the Earth again so that you remember who you are, so that you remember where your food came from. That’s education. It’s talking about educating yourself in all the areas that you need -- spiritually, emotionally, physically. Look at how you’re living the choices that you’re making. No one, including myself, are perfect. No one’s perfect. But what we can do is, when we are able to, we can make the right choices so that slowly we can make a world that is on the right path. K: Okay. So you come here, though, to Hopiland and Sedona and the Four Corners. And the mission is to gather the people, as I understand it. M: Yes. K: And this is not just the Native American people. And can you talk about that a little? M: I am going to share with you a little bit of what was told to me twenty years ago. When I was onboard the craft, what I was told was to find the others like myself, to gather them together and bring them back to the safe lands; that a time would come when all of these people -- meaning the people that I saw living from the... taken from the Third World into the Fourth World, and as well as the others “like myself” -- that we would all come back together. And when this happened, there would be great changes that would take place on the Earth, for the better. So it is becoming clearer and clearer to me by the day now... See, it used to take years for things to come. And that’s no longer the case. And that’s a very key point, because people have noticed that the world, and the daily lives that they have, everything’s changing -- the way that we think, the way that we act. Some people just seem to be floating through life while other people are just sort of going crazy, and they can’t seem to hold their own selves and their own space. What’s happening now is that this gathering that I was told about 20 years ago is beginning to form. And the people like myself are... There are people all over the Earth that have had experiences similar to mine. And we are all waiting for the right time to stand up in unity -- in Unity -- and come forward and speak to the world. Because when the world realizes that we are here, and that we are strong, and that we have been working in our own individual ways to better the Earth, and to better our societies, I believe that they will not have a choice but to look around and say: Okay, what do we need to do? Because we aren’t crazy people. People like myself are living very normal lives. And as I state in the book, we could be your best friend or your neighbor. We could be the principal at the school. We could be your governor, or anything in life. You could even be married to somebody like me and you may not know. But when the time comes, all of us will stand up together, and come out of these closets that we’ve been living in, to make our presence known on a global scale. So when people talk about this time, where they’re constantly asking me: Are these beings going to show themselves to us? Are they going to come out on a global scale? I tell them that it is my understanding that these tall blond beings are here as the Caretakers of this Earth and that they will not show themselves on a global scale en mass unless it is absolutely necessary to do so – meaning, if there was some great cataclysm that was coming where the entire world would be wiped out, that they would then step in. But it is only then that they would do so. Now, we -- people like myself -- are the ones that could come out on a global basis and a global scale. And this is one of the questions I’ve been asked so many times, and this is a really important point for people to understand: That when they say they’re going to come out, well yeah, we’re going to come out. We’re going to come out of your homes, and out of your schools, and out of your political arenas, and out of your preschools as your teachers. That’s where we’re going to come out first. K: And doesn’t it also... There’s a really key ingredient which involves the children and that the gatherings are actually going to send sort of a wave across the planet that’s going to impact and stimulate all of the Indigo Children and all of the Crystal Children -- whatever you want to call them -- and they will suddenly know that the time is now because of this gathering, if I understand it. M: You do understand it very well. And it is important to note that, also when these gatherings take place, and they have been... You know, one can say that these gatherings have been taking place all over the Earth already in small forms. What the great gathering is, is certain individuals, certain groups, coming together of prominence and of – “prominence” meaning nothing more than having certain knowledge. So people all over the Earth with certain knowledge will come together, and when they stand together, they will say certain things. And what it’s going to do is, it’s going to send a message out to individuals, children, to young adults, to you know, those people that are 70 years old. But it will send a message to everyone that’s waiting, waiting. We all feel it. Everyone’s felt it for a very long time. What are we waiting for? It’s like sitting in a chair getting all jittery. What are we waiting for? We’re waiting for something.


One of the things that they’re waiting for is for this event to take place. That’s what I believe because that’s what I was told 20 years ago, that it would be a wave that would sort of go out to these individuals and almost send a message to them and say: Okay. You’re not alone. Let’s wake up together and let’s start standing up and be known en mass to the Earth. Because then there will be responsibility taken by individuals. But it will also mean that those people that are living in their homes in fear of coming out, that as we come out together, we will no longer be ridiculed by people but we will be... we will have individuals saying: Okay. Teach me a little bit more about this path that you are on. Because there’s more than one side to this phenomenon. And I’m not here to talk to people or educate them about the darker side. What I’m saying is that this knowledge, this path, this understanding that I have from these tall blonds, is truly about enlightening ourselves, to educating ourselves, to helping us to understand who we are and where we’re from. And there is no hidden agenda. We may not have all of the answers. I may not have all of the answers. But if you put me in a room with a number of other people, we do have the whole picture. So to say that there’s other things going on is not a fair assessment, in my view. So it’s important for all of us to come together to the Earth en mass and that will be happening, I hope very soon. K: [to Bill Ryan] Okay. Now we have time for you to ask your question and then we can also double back and cover some ground that we might have missed along the way. Okay? Bill Ryan: I have a question which many people who are watching this would probably want me to ask. And that is that, when you talk about the Four Worlds that were mentioned both by your extraterrestrials contacts and that are present in the Hopi legend in the same form, can you match that against the traditional scientific thinking in terms of the fossil record, the evolution of man? Can you put any kind of a date on this? What does this actually mean to a paleontologist or an anthropologist? Are you able to answer that question or is it just not known? M: That is an interesting question to me because... The way that I can explain this is that when I was onboard the craft I was given knowledge. It was like saying that I had an education in many areas. Okay? One of the areas was on the evolution of man and where we came from, where we’re going. So in this, it was as though I went to, let’s say, grade three or grade four. So I have only a little bit of knowledge about these different Worlds. I am not the expert. But I know that there’s others like myself out there who would have far greater in-depth knowledge concerning this question. What became very clear to me in the visions that I was shown on the screen was that, for example, in the beginning, they said that it was like they threw the seeds of life across the land and waited for life to form and nothing happened. So we were just, you know, like worms in mud. This is the image that came into my mind. B: So that’s billions of years ago. M: Yes. Yes. In the Second World I was shown, in the Second World, that this very grotesque life form was produced and that they waited for it to evolve to see if it would be the right host for this spark of life -- whatever you would like to call it; I call it the spark of life -- to be able to facilitate a spiritual life and a greater understanding of the universe. But this... in the Second World, the life that was formed was very, very... ”simple” is the word that came to me. Very simple and basic and just really did not evolve. So, for myself, when I look at that... Of course, when I came back from this experience, and it took me a while to even be able to put all of this, associate it to the world, I clearly was able to see that this was the Dinosaur Age. Then in the Third World, I was shown from above the Earth and then again into this room where these people were that were taken from the Third World and brought into this World. And when I was shown from above, what I saw was this city that was very, very much filled with light. So there were cities but they weren’t all over the Earth. They were just sort of in pockets here and there. And so when I myself, as Miriam, look back through history at this, I see it as being some of those “Lost Worlds” that have been looked for, and some of them, part of them, found over the course of our lifetimes, or over the last hundred years. So, these three Worlds that were talked about prior to this one... it makes very clear sense to me, in my limited knowledge of anthropology and paleontology and all of the rest of it. It just looks clear to me that these were the different Worlds. B: Okay. My next question then that comes from that is that it sounds from what you’re saying that you are talking time scale of the responsibility of the Caretakers. I think you call them that word. Other contactees of course have called them different terms. Some people call them “The Watchers.” Jim Sparks called them “The Keepers.” These are all approximations, presumably transposed into our language, for some kind of guardian race. Maybe that’s another term we could use. But the time scale they’re talking about seems to be huge. We’re talking about, certainly hundreds of millions of years and possibly billions. How advanced are these people? Where are they from? Who are they? Or aren’t they extraterrestrials? Are they time travelers? Are they us in some way, as some people in my view compellingly claim? Do you know what the score is here? And what’s the relationship between them and the other extraterrestrial races that you must have heard about? M: Yes. First of all I’d like to address the different names: The Keepers, The Watchers, The Caretakers. I call them all of these things, myself, and the reason that I do is in part because they are all of these things. They do watch over us; they do take care of us; they are our caretakers; and they keep the knowledge. In my book I write they are the Keepers of the Knowledge that the indigenous people are. They too are the Keepers of the Knowledge, and so forth. So all of these terms, these different terms that we use to describe them, are correct in my view.


The other question was what kind of a scale are we looking at as far as time is concerned? Now, it is my understanding again, from what they’ve shared with me onboard that craft, that they have been here since the beginning of the Earth. And that they had a hand in creating humanity. That they, too, as it was described to me by them, that they too seek to know “God” -meaning the creator of all that is, all that was, and all that will be, the creator of everything, the very beginning, the source of all things. So they were given a task. It’s like saying, you know, whatever your job is. When you get up in the morning and you go to work, that’s what your job is. That’s what you know that you do. Well, when we are here on Earth, it is no different for them than to say that this is what they do. They are the Caretakers of the Earth and this is what they’ve always done. As far as what timeline they’re from, it was also described to me that some of them are from our past, our present, and our future, because the way that time was described to me, they did have the ability to go back and forth and in the present. They did have that ability. How? You’d have to ask them that because I have no idea. [laughs] But they also said that some of them were physical, that they were no different than you or I. That they lived on the Earth. That they did live under the Earth, inside the Earth. That there were others that were inter-dimensional beings, and there were others on different planets. That all of them were created for the same task in these different areas, and they all had the ability to communicate with one another. And it was like saying that they were cousins. So, it’s a very complicated question to answer because it is so complicated to explain. It’s almost beyond my words to be able to clarify it. B: Our contact Henry Deacon, who has encountered these situations from a completely different standpoint, working under contract for the American military and the American Intelligence services, has said that it would take a book of at least a thousand pages, and he just did not have the energy to write that. [laughs] Or maybe he said ten thousand. Maybe he’s not counting. And the impression I got is that this whole back-story is so complex, so deep, so convoluted, almost beyond human understanding, such a backdrop of complexity, that it’s like who are we to try and figure this out? We’ve actually got our own problems. Anything else is just intellectual curiosity. But the fact is that they’re there. At least some of them are caring about us, it would seem. The question I do have, though, linked with what I was just mentioning about the American military and the American Intelligence services. Do you know anything about the possible relationships of this group with the military? Or is it a different group of aliens that they have been working with? Do you know anything about that, or is that a question you are unable to answer? M: The question is: Will I answer? I have not been told anything directly by these beings as to any relationship that was formed with any government or any group on the Earth. So let me make that clear. I have not been given any direct information regarding that. They haven’t said: Yes we work with these people; we’re working over here with that person. However, I have been shown and told certain things that were of a darker side, and warned of certain things. For example, at one point I was shown something... It’s difficult, difficult for me to talk about. I was shown an image of being in an underground base that... What took place there was so dark and ugly and horrifying to me that it was difficult for me to deal with. I don’t know how to say this nicely, but it was of... I saw images of beings and of creatures that were just beyond the human comprehension of being able to see in real life. Now what happened... In this time that I was shown this, I was in the astral, and the being, the tall blond that I was with, said: You must be very quiet because if you’re not, they will know that we are here. And don’t ever come to this particular area. It is very dangerous for you. And I said: Okey doke. I’m not going anywhere near there. So do these tall blonds have associations with certain groups on the planet? No, not that I’m aware of. You asked me about these other beings that so many people are familiar with, which... one of the biggest ones is the Grays. I do not have any direct information, but here’s what I was told by the tall blonds: That they are here as the Caretakers of the Earth and that they would help protect us from ourselves or other things that we may not be aware of. So does that mean other beings? Absolutely. Does it mean that there’s a presence of other beings on the planet? Absolutely. Am I here to talk about those beings with you? No. Because I want the message of the tall blonds to be really clear with people, that they are here in peace and that they do not mean us any harm. They will not come here and take over the Earth. That is not their purpose. If it was their purpose, they would have done it long, long ago. And they do not have a dark agenda in this genetic program that they have going. And I want to talk about that because it’s something that’s very important to the people of Earth. In the Third World, these individuals that were created were created for the purpose of spiritual development. And when the spiritual development was taking place, all of this knowledge about spirit and life was a part of who we are, where we’re from, and where we’re going. But again, to reiterate what I’ve already said, it was like giving children matches. They just didn’t deal with it very well. So what has happened since the beginning of our existence as humanity is that different families all over the Earth have been given this certain genetic information in our genome. Right? And along the way, certain families are “monitored” by these Caretakers, not to do anything dark, but to help so that, so very slowly, these vessels that we are living in, that we are a part of, have the ability to withstand this greater information and knowledge. Because, of course, our brain is nothing more than a computer that is based on an electrical charge within the body. So


if we are over-loaded with electrical charges, we will not be able to control the pathways in which this information is flowing, and we become crazy. So these families have very slowly had their DNA, new strands of DNA, to help facilitate greater understanding, greater knowledge, greater respect for ourselves and the Earth. And that’s what’s happened with these families that are being monitored. So that is also why sometimes people have had these things running in their families, because they’re one of these families that have been monitored. And that’s why the path leading back to where we all came from would be very interesting, to be able to look at the family tree of some of these families through time. K: Isn’t this the... This is actually... The Grays are in a sense working for... At least one faction are working for the tall blonds, or however you want to call them, because you’re talking about also in your ‘88 experience, you have the four-foot-tall beings. Those were, I assume, the Grays showing you onto the ship, at which time you were meeting with the tall blonds. So what happens is, the Grays are actually handling the genetic, sort of, manipulation under the direction of perhaps these higher beings. M: Only to a certain degree. And there needs to be some clarification there -- and this is one of the things that I, myself, have been very frustrated with in regard to the whole phenomenon -- is the terms that we use in order to describe what it is that we’re talking about. For example, when I myself say the word Gray, the first thing that pops into my mind is a being that has wrinkled skin, has just the whole energy of fear for me personally. They have... Their heads are larger, but they’re not huge. Their eyes are slightly slanted. That sort of thing. When I’m talking about the Grays that I’m talking about, if you wanted to call them that, these are four feet high with round black eyes and almost look like robots. There’s no features to them whatsoever. They’re very androgynous. These other Grays with the wrinkled skin and their little tiny noses, those are a completely different breed. So there needs to be clarification in that. Here’s what I tell people also. There is something that needs to be said about the understanding of people out there when someone such as myself comes forward. When we talk to you about our experiences, we talk to you about them not only from what it is that we’ve experienced but also from our perceptions, understanding, and how much we were taught by them. So this is very important, because if five people witness a car accident, all five people are going to tell a slightly different story. So the question is: Is the person telling the story a story-maker? Are they somebody that, you know, embellishes? You have to take that into account. Is the person a very fastidious story-teller, where they’re telling every detail? You know, you have to take a look at the individual also to be able to know how to take that story. So, when it comes to these beings, I’ve also been told by certain individuals that these “Grays” have been seen with the tall blonds and that their agenda is very dark. But here’s what I say. And, again, this really needs to be having some clarification out there regarding this phenomenon. I pray that if there are these beings... I would ask these people watching to ask themselves this. I pray that if there are Caretakers that are looking over us and watching over us, and if they are somehow related to god in any way, shape, or form, that they not judge me on the evil people of this Earth -- because we all look the same. Our general descriptions are the same. So because I am white, I pray that I am not judged by the evil of other white people. So when you come across one of these beings, whether it is in your dreams, which they can come to you in, or whether it is in the astral, which means your light body is leaving you, or whether it is physical, ask yourself this, right from here: [points to her heart]Do I have fear or am I simply just afraid? Do I have fear or terror? Because if you have terror, you need to understand that, and you need to say: No, I am not going to do this. I am not going to participate. I do not and will not be a part of this. K: Right. They need to protect themselves. And they have this power.

M: K: M: K:

Yes. And they need to know they have this power. Yes. And that’s a very important message.

M: Yes. It is very important. People forget that. They think: Oh I don’t have any control. I don’t have any power. You do have a certain amount of power regarding this phenomenon when you’re having contact. And so it is really important to protect yourself in that way, mentally. And that’s why, again, these tall blonds make it very clear that we need to educate ourselves, not only in what’s happening around us in the world, but also on a more spiritual level, because the more spiritually aware you become, the stronger you become, the more informed as to how it is that you can move forward spiritually and in the astral and in the dreams, to be able to protect yourself from some of these other beings. All of them. All of the beings that are out there, whether it be Grays or tall blonds, each one that I meet individually, I make them look at me in my eyes. I make them look, so that... If they’re looking at me and they’re looking all over the place like this [moves head sporadically from side to side], I say: No, no, no. I remember one dream in particular, the two blonds came to me and they were trying to give me this very, very strong message. And I said to them: You need to look at me. And they said: There’s no time. There’s no time. And I said: No. You either stop and look at me so that I can look in your eyes or I’m not speaking to you. So I looked in their eyes and I recognized them as being peaceful and from the right heart. Because you can’t look at someone, at the rest of their body. When we want to know who someone is,


even in this world, we stop and we look at their eyes: Can I look at their eyes and be comfortable? We have instant recognition as to whether or not we care for someone or not, so use that in this phenomenon as well. And if you do not want this happening, tell them. And just keep telling them that you do not and are not a willing participant, and you demand that they stop. You need to verbalize that. Will it stop? I don’t know. It depends on your spirit. It depends on how strong you are. K: Okay. Thank you very much for that. That’s very important and I’m glad we can put that out there. M: What I would like to share with everyone is that people like myself all over the Earth are being stirred to movement. And that stirring and that movement, I believe, is very relevant for every single human being on the Earth. I believe that because we are being awakened to begin sharing this information with people, that there are great changes that are coming and that we need to all understand that. What is this great knowledge? The knowledge is that we’re not alone, that we’re being watched, that what we’re doing is being looked upon by other beings that do have a certain amount of knowledge that we ourselves do not have. And that we need to take responsibility for ourselves -- only as the individual. You’re not responsible for the Earth. You’re responsible for yourself. Accept that. Because we are all being awakened, we are all making the connections with one another. Where this will all lead, I believe that all of us are waiting to see. Because nothing is for sure. We’re writing this plan as we’re going through it. One of the greatest concerns that I have... In the views, the visions that I was shown, the information that was shared to me onboard that craft, they talked to me a lot when I was with them about seeds. And I’m always trying to share this information with people. One of the things that could save this Earth is seeds. because if every individual on the planet planted a small garden, we would not have to produce as much oil or transportation or pollution or plastics to... you know. Everything. It would also give every individual on the planet a taste again, a glimpse of why we’re here, to be able to experience the beauty around us. Now, I’m going to ask everyone to take away from this whole interview today... If they educate themselves on any one thing, I’m going to ask them to educate themselves on what is happening to the Earth’s seeds. Because it is of great concern to these tall blonds and always has been, and even for myself, what I have learned in the last few years regarding seeds and what’s happening on the Earth. It is the greatest concern that every individual should have. If you accept that we’re not alone, that’s great. But educate yourself on seeds because it will change your view of the world and it will change the course of this Earth for the better. K: Wonderful. Okay. That’s a very different take than you generally hear, and I think there’s a lot of wisdom there in that approach. You don’t even need free energy if you just plant a garden, right?

M: Right. K: Yeah. It’s a great idea.
M: I wanted to share something else. You asked me a question. You asked me a question regarding something that was given to me, and I know that anyone watching this is going to be going back to that... K: Right. M: ... because it’s very important. When I was onboard the craft in 1988, I had memories come back to me from childhood that were very interesting because it was of a time when I was a very young child, about four or five years old, when I was taken onboard a craft. And this memory came back to me very, very clearly. I really get into the details of this in the book because it is a key point to this phenomenon for myself. Now, to take this story and put it into a few sentences: I was taken on board a craft when I was four years old, and during that time, these beings gave me something and they told me to bury it. And they said that one day I would know what it was for and that I would go back and find it. I get asked this all the time because I’ve written about it in great detail throughout the course of my life. This thing keeps coming up over and over and over again. I have not found it yet. I know the area that it is in but I have not found it yet. The question again is: Is it my imagination? Absolutely not. Because I have had far too many confirmations of this information given to me over the years, one in particular coming back to me thirty-five years after the fact -- or sorry, thirty-six years after the fact -- and a very clear, clear indication that these memories that came back were absolutely crystal clear. So, is it there? I believe it is. Have I found it? No, I haven’t. Will I let you know if I have? I think the world will know if I have. The path that I’ve been on for the last few years of my life, since 2003, has in a very round-about way been my driving force. And this object is constantly in my mind. And what I’ve noticed is, since 2003 to the present day, the images of it have become clearer and clearer and clearer. So does that mean it’s coming back to me? Does that mean it’s physically coming back to me? I believe it is. So I think we’re all, including myself, because I live this life, because it is so profound every day even for me, and because of the things that I’ve experienced in the past. I am no different than anyone else out there. I’m waiting to see what happens next. K: Well, thank you very much, Miriam. I call you Miriam Blue Star. And there’s a significance to the Blue Star that you haven’t mentioned. Would you like to talk about that briefly? M: Yes. The Blue Star is the prophecy of the Hopi people. And again I do not speak on behalf of Hopi. However, when I was on


the craft in 1988, they told me that one day a star would appear in the sky for all of man to see. Nothing or no one would hide its presence from the world and it would be a sign to the people that the end is near and that it is time to prepare. In 2003, when I went through Hopi and I went back home, I then went online and I started looking up the Hopi, trying to gather information about them. And it was then that I found the Hopi prophecy, which is identical as well as the creation myth, to the information that was given to me regarding the Hopi people. So the Blue Star is a prophecy of the Hopi people, and I was told that the star would appear exactly the same as the Hopi. So what I would ask is that you do your own research regarding these people and all the indigenous people around the world. It will give you great insight and spiritual understanding. .. K: But there was a blue star in the sky not so long ago. We were driving through New Mexico at the time and people were commenting on it. You don’t actually know if that was the Blue Star? Is that right? M: Because the Blue Star is a prophecy of the Hopi people, I cannot say for sure whether or not that was the Blue Star. But that was a comet that blew up. It was ... It’s called 17P/Holmes. If you wanted to look it up, it will give you more information. And this was a comet that astounded researchers and astronomers because of what happened as a result of it. It blew up and it was showing blue in the sky all over the Earth. It was very, very clear at that time. Yes. .



Project Camelot: Bob Dean - The Coming Of Nibiru Interview Transcript
Phoenix, Arizona, September 2008
heart... You know, he’d never had a heart problem, but within a year he was dead with a heart attack. ... Incredible race of humans... does have a future. And it is in the stars. And we are going out there to reclaim our rightful place. ... It’s kind of amusing considering that the last time we met, I told you it was to be my last interview and here I am again. And, you know, how can I explain that? Start of interview Kerry Cassidy: We have gotten the most incredible response to your interview. I have to say it’s actually been the most popular of all our interviews...
I'm not paranoid. I just pay attention. Retired Command Sergeant Major Robert Dean

BD: That’s nice to hear. KC: ... and I think that there is a reason for that. BD: Well, thank you. KC: I think that in many ways you put yourself on the line, and you actually embody the curiosity that was, like, rampant in all of us. And you did it at a time when... and in the military, no less. And you broke rules, and you kind of stuck it out. You’re just... You’re like...You’re just... I don’t know... a one-man disclosure project, as far as I’m concerned. BD: Well, thank you, Kerry. That’s very kind of you to say that. But let me explain something. I was a “normal human being” for a big portion of my life. You know, I was a career military, nononsense kind. I wore a crew cut. When I learned what I learned in 1963, ’64, ’65, it changed my life. It changed my way of thinking. And I became obsessed with what I had learned. And, over the years, I’ve learned so much more. And as I may have mentioned to you earlier, I learned a little bit; I wanted more. You know, talk about an addiction! When you start learning some things about a subject that is so profound... The more I learned, the more I wanted to know, and the more I wanted to know, the more I learned, and the more I learned, the more obsessed I became, and... You talk about losing your paradigm. My old paradigm literally crumbled around my knees. You know, the world that I thought I lived in, I learned was not the world that I lived in. And the reality that I looked around and thought I saw was not the reality that exists, that much of what we see is an illusion. It’s a result of our own illusions.

When we met with Bob Dean in May 2007, he stated that ours would be his last interview. After its publication, we received more mail - all of it generous and appreciative, without exception - than for any other interview we have ever done. We were therefore quite delighted when he agreed to talk with us on record once again. When we asked Bob what he wanted to discuss, he told us that he had important news, from his own inside sources, about Nibiru: the highly controversial Planet X. This video contains extremely important information for all students of Planet X to consider. True to form, Bob recounts other intriguing stories, including the NRO's classified discovery of "a goddamn boat" high on Mount Ararat, and confirmation of Henry Deacon's report that the Anunnaki are active on present-day Mars. His humanity, his dignity, his integrity and his humor all shine once again in this new video, and we are very confident that everyone who so enjoyed Bob's 2007 interview with us will find this just as entertaining, interesting, and valuable. Bob Dean: Some of our remote viewers have concluded that, yes, it’s going to happen this time, that we and it will be on the same side of the sun at the same time. And if the remote viewer... And they’re getting their own information from ETs, from sources within the U.S. government that tell me that, yes, they are deeply concerned about it. And they’re worried sick about it. And they don’t know what to do about it. ... What could the government or anyone else tell you? What could they say to you? Would they tell you: Grab your hat? Dig a hole? Hang on!? ... He says: Oh, it seems to be a rather nice planet, and we know about it, and all we need to do is name it. And then, bless his


We... we humans sometimes, rather than face reality, we create a little world of our own. You know, we get up and go to work. We raise the kids. We buy a house. Buy a car. Take a vacation. Go on about our lives. Try to save money, put a little in the bank for the kids’ college. And live a “normal life”. And then I learned that there’s no such thing as a “normal life”, that the world that exists is not at all what we think it is. And the more I learned... As I said, my old paradigm crashed around my knees, and... [sighs] I’m sitting here in front of you as a human wreck, you might say, you know, as to what I used to be. Because I lived in a world that was kind of cut and dried. Oh, you know, do this, do that... You pay your bills, you... It’s not that way at all! KC: Well, let’s cut to the chase here, because you have come forward. Actually, you contacted us, I’m going to say, and said you’ve got something new to say. You’ve got something new to tell the people. And I know you’re going to be speaking at the Bay Area Conference. And this is amazing. And let’s find out what is it that’s new. What is it that you’re willing to... BD: You want me to divulge to you my great revelations which I’m planning to speak about at the conference, right? KC: Absolutely! [Bob laughs] And you know, this video will not be edited and out there before the conference, so you don’t have to worry that we’re going to ruin it for the viewers at the conference. BD: Well, there are lots of little tidbits that are kind of interesting to me. I assume, I hope, they’ll be interesting to the people at San Jose. It’s been my experience that the people who attend those conferences are pretty wide open, open-minded. As I jokingly used to say, when I speak there, it’s like preaching to the choir, you know. Because they’re a different group of people. I’ll give you a tiny tidbit which I found interesting. As you perhaps have understood, I have been a member of what we used to jokingly call The Old Boys' Network. I’ve been a member of it for over 40 years. And when we created this group, it was made up of military types, primarily, all ranks, all services. And we even had a couple of cosmonauts who were connected with this, who were providing information. Well, over the years, the old boys have shared information with each other, because we’ve had a variety of assignments and jobs in the military. We had a couple of admirals. We had a general, and two cosmonauts. We had innumerable colonels and command sergeant majors and people from all walks, everywhere, who provided information we used to share with each other. And some of us have been in very sensitive positions and had access to very highly classified material. And we’ve been very open about sharing that with others, which kind of kept us going for a long, long time. There aren’t a hell of a lot of us left. The last time I... Originally, there was roughly about 150 members of this group, and today there’s probably not more than a dozen left. We lost a good one. You know, Graham Bethune died here, about a year ago. And Graham was a retired Navy Commander who was a dear man who had some very sensitive information he used to share with us. But, as I point out, we shared among ourselves. And then a few of us came out blatantly, purposely, and started sharing what we had learned with the public. Frankly, I never thought I was going to to get away with it! I thought that they were going to stomp on me, and you know, eliminate me, or whatever. There was even rumors, for God’s sake, that they were going to call me back to active duty and court martial me! [Kerry laughs] You know. Well, I’m going to be 80 at my next birthday, so I don’t think they want to call me back to active duty. You know, I could have an accident... But, I think why I am getting away with what I am getting away with, so to speak -- where I am releasing bits and pieces of this cover-up -- is that there’s somebody back there somewhere who wants me to do what I’m doing. Or I would not have been able to do this. But let me give you a tiny tidbit of bits and pieces that come from The Old Boys’ Network: There is an organization called the National Reconnaissance Office. You’ve probably heard of them. KC: Absolutely. BD: A very super-secret group, a super-secret group among super-secret groups. God, we’ve got so damn many groups now. As I used to jokingly say, when poor old Ike left office, he tried to tell us about the military-industrial complex? Well, it’s a triad now. It’s not just the military and industry. It’s the national security agencies as well. So, if he could see it today, he’d be shocked even more. Of course, I’m sure he’s alive and well somewhere, probably looking down and chuckling. But, we are a triad now: The super-secret agencies with the military and the industries. It’s all like this. [clasps hands together] But, anyhow, there are people who I think want this out. We’ve known for years that among the “in crowd”... whoever the hell they are, and no one really has ever been able to put our finger on it. We’ve been able to grab a couple of ’em from the old Magi Group. The Wise Men, they called themselves... the Magi. You’ve heard them referred to as the Majestic Twelve. Well, they are a lot more than twelve now. Anyhow, I’m getting away with sharing bits and pieces and tidbits which intrigue me because I think somebody wants some of this out.


But the story I was going to share with you is that... In the National Reconnaissance Office, about, I guess four or five years now, they had for a number of years a series of satellites called the Keyhole System. Have you heard of it? KC: Ah, yes. K: And it’s survived all these years. BD: Keyhole. It was super-secret and probably the very best satellite system in the world. Well, they’ve probably made it even better now. They could supposedly read a postage stamp from space. Well, there were some intriguing questions being raised by a number of people about what was known as the Ararat Anomaly. Are you familiar with the Ararat Anomaly? Bill Ryan: Mount Ararat. Noah’s Ark. KC: OK. BD: And so, the guys in the NRO took their Keyhole system and focused on the Ararat Anomaly, which is, you know, a puzzle. Well, when the word got out, when the pictures were finally down-loaded and they computerized and enhanced them and cleaned them up, and they pushed them on the wall or they broadcast them on the wall there at NRO, the remarks went something like this -- and these are actual quotes: Jesus Christ, it’s a god-damn boat! Christ! It’s a big boat! OK. One would say: Why would something like that be so highly classified that it is way above top secret? Why would the discovery of a boat on Mount Ararat be classified so far above, you know... anything? Anyhow, the story comes out. The reason they classified it is because, after they discovered that it is a god-damn boat, a big god-damn boat, they inserted a team of SEALs on the site. That’s a term that the military uses to put a bunch of guys on a scene. KC: Right. BD: Apparently they dropped them by aircraft. They parachuted down, a dozen of them or so. They inserted them onto the scene and these guys spent several days in this god-damn boat. And then they extracted them by helicopters. And when they extracted them, the guys brought with them some “anomalous artifacts” which have never been described or named. But those anomalous artifacts is what led to this whole thing being classified not only Top Secret, but the way the hell above. And that’s a little bit of information that’s come out via the network of the Old Boys. KC: So are you saying this is Noah’s Ark? BD: No one knows what it is. It was originally the Ararat Anomaly, but then they discovered that it was a gigantic boat, apparently, and... But the idea that this particular thing is so theologically sensitive that some yo-yo back there at NRO decided to classify it... And then they sent the SEALs in and the SEALs brought back artifacts. Well, there you are, you see! What could they have possibly found in this big wreck that is so sensitive? The question arises. I don’t know the answer to that. Hopefully, if the Old Boys still stays alive a few years, we might find out. I find that interesting and I share it with people because it gives you an insight into that bunch of nitwits back there that classify everything! [Kerry laughs] KC: Bill, go ahead with your question about Mount Ararat. And then we’re going to move on from there. BR: I think it was Charles Berlitz who wrote a book which was called The Lost Ship of Noah. And he published a bunch of photographs -- these photographs are on the internet -- of something that looks like a ship on Ararat. And there are two versions of this, from what I’ve heard. One is fairly low down, and which is an enormous thing that looks like a whole lot of ship’s timbers. And there are persistent reports of another object that’s much higher up, way above the snow line, quite close to the summit. And I wonder if you could say which of these, if either, has been picked up by the Keyhole satellites and analyzed? And when the SEALs were inserted, did they carbon-date the wood? BD: Oh, I’m sure they must have. But I haven’t got any information on that. My guess is, Bill, that the SEALs were inserted on the one toward the top, above the snow line. That’s the indication that I got, that that was the one that... They went in, they landed, they dropped, they parachuted in and spent a number of days up there, apparently. BD: Well, apparently. The question, how many years? You know... when was the flood? The last rumor I heard had that it was 12,000 years ago: 10,500 BC. KC: When are they saying? I mean, I’m sure you have a theory. BD: Well, the religious implications of it, you see. You know, every ancient culture on the planet has a similar tradition about a flood, and I’m sure there were many Noahs, so to speak, wherever. KC: But a boat built by humans? BD: Well, it appears to be. It’s essentially, from what they gathered, wood. But, it’s a work of genius, apparently. It was intricately put together, and it’s really...


But what they brought back in terms of anomalous artifacts is the thing that intrigued me. Why would they classify it so far above Top Secret? But that bunch of nitwits back there.... And I’ve known some of them over the years; I’ve worked with some of them. And I think they are a bunch of damn nitwits! You know, there is no damn reason why they’ve classified so much. KC: What year was this when the SEALs were sent in? BD: About five years ago, from what I can gather. KC: Really? BD: Yes. KC: That’s bizarre. BD: Well, the Keyhole program was really big in the late ’90s. Now, I’m sure they’ve got satellite programs that are even better now. We’ve got civilian programs that are so damn good that the Department of Defense will often go to the civilian contractors and buy photographs taken by civilian satellites that are outstanding. So it leads you to suspect, maybe, what...how much better could be some of our DoD satellites. K: Right. KC: OK. So you know some of his recent research. BD: You know, they have classified Lake Vostok. They took it away from JPL who was monitoring it and, you know, with satellites and all... Are you familiar with Lake Vostok in Antarctica? KC: No. BD: Oh, God, that’s a sensitive story in itself! Under the ice in Antarctica there is a fresh-water lake deep, deep down under the ice, that’s 100 miles long and 50 miles wide. Fresh water. The temperature in the damn lake is about 65 degrees, which is pleasant swimming, you might say. But at the end of Lake Vostok is what’s known as a gigantic masscon -- a mass concentration of metal, very similar to the masscons they discovered on the Moon -- a gigantic, circularshaped, metallic object deep under the ice at the end of Lake Vostok. Highly classified. JPL had it. The National Security Agency took it away from JPL. It’s one of the most sensitive things in the world now, as to what is the anomaly at the end of the lake -- the mass con -- the mass concentration that is so easily picked up by satellite? Another top secret, you know? KC: Mm hm. BD: Ah, well, I read his recent book, which is dynamite. KC: Uh huh. OK. So, you know about the Secret Space Program. BD: Oh, yes. KC: And you know about the von Braun and the Nazis and what’s been carried over to the U.S. political system. BD: Oh, yes. It’s bigger than that. It’s much bigger. KC: OK. But when I raised up Richard Hoagland’s information and the stuff that he’s been bringing forward about von Braun, the Nazis, you know, Paperclip... and you’re saying it’s much beyond that. BD: It is. KC: So where are we going with that? BD: Our original space program was all a product of the Nazi party. Without von Braun and his crew and the Paperclip program, I don’t think we would have gotten to the Moon when we did, or we certainly wouldn’t have beaten the Russians. Because the Russians grabbed their crowd... they also went into Germany and grabbed a bunch of scientists. Well, I’m hoping that the Chinese publish a lot of those pictures, because our own NASA people took many, many pictures. The Army took thousands of pictures under the Clementine Project. Are you familiar with Clementine? KC: I’ve heard of it. BD: It was not a NASA program. It was an Army program, Department of Defense. They took thousands of pictures. They’ve only released a dozen or so. They took pictures all around the Moon, back side, bottom, top, everywhere. KC: Well, are you in touch with Richard Hoagland? BD: I know Richard. He’s a good friend. BD: But the common folk, you’re not supposed to know that. KC: Right. BD: Why? Well, you can’t handle it, you see. The implications of it are just too vast. KC: Well, tell me this: Do the Chinese know it? BD: Oh, I’m sure they do. As you may know, the Chinese now have gone into space in a big way. It never gets into the newspaper, but the last I heard, the Chinese have a satellite orbiting the Moon, taking lots of pictures.


And the Russians have a tremendous scientific program of their own. You know, they didn’t need Nazi scientists. They would have eventually done it on their own anyhow. But one of the biggest secrets of all is the Secret Space Program, the fact that NASA is... It’s like Blue Book used to be. I think it’s a public relations front. KC: Right. Yes. BD: Blue Book never handled the real good stuff. And everybody knew that, except the common folk out there who were diddled regularly and never told the truth about anything. But the big secret seems to have been for so long, is: Why are we keeping classified the enormous facilities on the Moon? And they’re not ours. KC: Whose are they? BD: Well, that’s a good question. I can tell you flatly who they are. KC: OK. BD: Are you familiar with the term Anunnaki? KC: Absolutely. BD: All right. Well, you really have to understand Zecharia Sitchin’s work to really grasp where we stand today in relationship with this group of intelligences. And, I’m not speaking of one. There are several. The last I heard, there were four different groups we were relating with. The Anunnaki are one. And there are others. KC: OK. I mean, this is very interesting. Can you describe the Anunnaki that you... First of all, have you had exposure to them face-to-face? BD: Me? KC: Yes. BD: Yes, I have met some face-to-face. Now, whether they were the Anunnaki, I don’t know. KC: OK, well... BD: The ones I’ve met face-to-face were typically human. KC: Typically human. BD: I mean, they put on a suit and tie, a dress, blue jeans, Tshirt... KC: OK. KC: Androids? The information I have learned indicates one of the major tweakings took place about 60,000 years ago, that Homo sapiens sapiens were tweaked and genetically manipulated even more. So, we’re coming along slowly. KC: OK, so what four races? Let’s name ’em, in your opinion. BD: Well, there are the humans. KC: OK. BD: Some people call them the Nordics. Then you have guys that are very pale, and very tall, and very broad... KC: Uh huh. BD: ... which some people refer to as the big whites. KC: OK. BD: And then you have the little guys. KC: The Grays? And then the Anunnaki. So those are the four you’re familiar with. BD: And not all of the Grays are an evolved species. Some of them appear to be... What is the term they used to use? They were an artificial life form. BD: ...walk in our midst, and you would never know. KC: And they weren’t nine feet tall, or higher? BD: No. The ones I’ve met and the ones I’ve seen aboard the ships are not that big at all. They’re just like us. KC: Uh huh. BD: So, we’re dealing with four different groups that I’ve concluded -- my own personal view. KC: OK. BD: You might talk to Jim Sparks and he might tell you there are eight, or ten, or a dozen more. I don’t know. I can only tell you what little bit I’ve learned over the years. There are four different groups that I’ve encountered, and they are all humanoid. One group is completely human. And not all of the Anunnaki are nine feet tall. They were human enough that we are related to them, and they’re related to us. And that lovely little story in Chapter Six of Genesis is quite true. They did, indeed, engineer the genes and chromosomes of an existing species on this planet... God knows how long ago. Sitchin says it was 200,000 years.


BD: Yes, they were humanoid androids, but they were constructed. They’re laboratory products. And they often wondered why, in cases of crashes where there were survivors, that some of them didn’t come back and try to retrieve. And the story that came out among the military for many years was that they wrote ’em off! They went back and made more. Now, there are some people who say, Well, they don’t have a soul. Well, I’ve run into human beings that I begin to wonder whether they had a soul. [Kerry laughs] orbit by an “anomalous object” that came up from the surface. But, it took... It had taken a number of outstanding photographs before it was damaged and crashed. KC: OK. What... Well, you called it an “anomalous,” I don’t know, “object” that came up from the surface. Meaning the surface of the Moon? BD: Mars. KC: Or from the Earth? BD: Yes. KC: OK. BD: No, the Phobos program was sent to Mars because they had hoped to land a lander on the satellite Phobos. KC: Right. BD: There are two circling Mars which are anomalous. Again, that fantastic word: anomalous. Astronomers consider them anomalous because, first of all, they’re going in the wrong direction for a natural satellite, whatever that means. They’re too small to be natural satellites, and they’re too close to the surface of Mars to have survived because, if they were natural, they would long ago have been brought down, sucked in by gravity, and crashed. The fact that they’re still there puzzles everybody. So the Russians said: We’re going to land on Phobos. It’s about twelve miles in diameter. I think Deimos is only about six or seven. And they were going to take some pictures on the surface. Well, you know, apparently the intelligences up there decided, No, you’re not going to do that, and bumped Phobos -- the satellite that the Soviets sent up -- knocked it out of orbit, and it crashed, apparently. KC: But they’ve been doing that to the JPL craft going up and around Mars for years now. BD: There is an intelligence on Mars that wants to limit our access to their reality. And they’ve done a damn pretty good job of it. KC: Well, our witness, Henry Deacon... and I don’t know if you’re familiar with him. BD: I’m familiar with him. I don’t know him well. KC: OK. He has said that the Anunnaki are on Mars... in bases. BD: They are. I agree with that. KC: So, are they the ones shooting down those objects? You know, the various craft from JPL, and so on?

But... KC: OK. So... BD: There are two types of Grays, from what I’ve learned. There are the little guys who appear to be laboratory products. And then there are the six-foot Grays whose eyes are more round. And they’re not really gray. They’re just sort of a chalky, off-white color. KC: Mm hm. BD: And they seem to be an evolved race all of their own. And I think those are the ones that probably ran into Betty Hill and Barney at the incident many years ago. KC: Have you heard about Dan Burisch talking about the Orions? They’re sitting in ships, along with the military, actually watching the planet right now? BD: I’ve heard bits and pieces of that. I don’t know too much about Dan’s story. He’s come out with a great many things. KC: OK. But this is just new information that he has actually come forward with. BD: Well... KC: And they’re watching the planet to see what happens, and whether or not we have a catastrophe of any kind... BD: We have got... KC: ...and whether they might have to step in. BD: We have photographs, and many of them I’m going to share at the show. I have slides, and photographs, of gigantic objects. I’m talking about humongous objects in space! And many of them are satellites in their orbit around the planet. Many of them are in orbit around the Moon, around Mars. I have a couple of pictures that I’m going to share that I got from a Soviet cosmonaut on what happened with the Phobos thing. The Russians... you know, their famous Phobos rocket system that they sent up there some years back which got knocked out of


BD: Probably... Look, Zecharia has said... And, I know this old man; I respect him tremendously. Ah... he says they never left. They withdrew overtly from their activities on the planet with us, but their activities have continued covertly both on Earth, the Moon, and Mars. And from the knowledge I have and the limited amount of information I’ve been able to get, the primary focus, the primary intelligence behind all of this, are the Anunnaki, the same group that genetically engineered us so many thousands of years ago. KC: OK. But you’ve got Enki and Enlil, right? And these are warring brothers, and one is working for the positive side of humanity and the other... BD: Well, you have this dysfunctional family. They even went to war with each other, and man was in the middle, as he always has been. You know, we were a product of their engineering. They engineered us as a slave species. They engineered us to work for them. KC: But aren’t they still at war? BD: Apparently, there is still... and some of our remote viewers... and I know a few of them... I’ve done a little of it myself, and, believe me, it works. I’ve been accused of being guilty of front-loading, so to speak, because when I want to look at something, I know what I want to look at. The military originally trained their guys to not know what they were looking for, and then they would down-load, you know, compare and such. KC: Right. BD: But, when I want to look at something, I know exactly what I want to look at. One of the greatest, of course, is Ingo Swann. KC: Oh, absolutely. BD: Oh, a tremendous guy! What an intellect that guy is! KC: Oh, incredible. We’re dying to interview him. Do you know him? BD: He and I have corresponded. Yes. I wrote a nice article about him one time years ago, and he wrote me a letter and thanked me for it and told me he appreciated it a lot. KC: Lovely. Yes. BD: But he is a rare man. He’s a rare intellect. Not only is he probably the best remote viewer we’ve ever had, perhaps, other than Pat Price, that... Ingo’s come up with stuff on the Moon that... You’d have to read his book. KC: Actually, I have. BD: Penetration. It’s dynamite. KC: And it’s hard to get ahold of, I understand. BD: Yes. It should be re-issued because it’d sell like hot cakes. KC: Absolutely. BD: I spoke about it on Coast-to-Coast a couple of times with Art Bell, and apparently it became so damn hot that, you know, you can’t find a copy... two or three hundred dollars each, if you can find one. KC: Yes, well I have... I don’t know if I still have it, but I had one. BD: Well, hold onto it. It’s gold. KC: Uh huh. BD: But Ingo is gold, himself. KC: OK. But let’s kind of move back to the question, because I want to get, sort of, drilled down to this answer. So they’re still at war? BD: They still have a difference of opinion about us. Now, whether Enlil and... KC: Enki. BD: Ea... Enki... He goes by two names. Whether they still are alive or not... With the genetic geniuses that they have been, that they are, they can genetically manipulate... You know, they ingeniously genetically manipulated their ownchromosomes, DNA, till they literally have become practically immortal. Now, I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if Enki and Enlil may still be alive. Maybe they’re running around with a cane, like I do, [Kerry laughs] grunting and groaning. You know, they’ve got the great-great-grandkids doing the running and... I don’t know that, and I’m sure that no one else does. But, apparently the factions are still divided, and the one side wants to use us as they always did. And the other side wants to give us the opportunity to be our own species, to chart our own future, and to call... you know, to determine our own lives. And there apparently has been this difference of opinion going on. KC: So, when we get back to the national security state, and the state of the U.S. right here and now... I mean, you’re an exmilitary. I hardly want to call you “ex” because I think you’re, in some ways, probably still consulted here and there. You know, we’re about to go to war with Iran... BD: No, we’re not. KC: What’s you’re perspective on this? We’re not? BD: No, we’re not.


KC: OK. BD: And that’s my opinion, for whatever it’s worth, you know. KC: Sure. BD: I have a half-penny in my pocket... I don’t believe that we’re going to have a nuclear war because I don’t think the custodians will allow it. The planet is too valuable. It’s too rich a reservoir of life. Not only the humans that are here on this planet, but all the other creatures. This planet is an absolute cornucopia of beautiful, beautiful forms of life. And, not only that, but the... What is it? The fauna and the... what’s the other term? KC: The flora? BD: The flora! The flora is infinite, almost. No, the planet’s too valuable. KC: OK. BD: They’ve got a lot invested in planet Earth and they’re not about to let it go to a nuclear war, because they have the power to see that it does not happen. And I want to tell you something else. You’ve heard this old rumor about the “Prime Directive”? KC: Mm hm. BD: Bullshit! It doesn’t exist. [Kerry laughs] KC: Right. OK. BD: They have been interfering here, breaking the so-called Prime Directive, over centuries, thousands of times. They have been interfering, according to our historical records, back to ancient Greece. They probably had a hand in that damn dust-up at Troy. You know, they took sides. There were even rumors in Homer’s reports that the gods themselves came down and took sides and played in the game. To them, it’s a game. KC: Right. Well, the Bhagavad Gita, if you’re familiar with it... I mean they go into... BD: There you are... filled with it. The Vedas are filled with it, you see. KC: Absolutely. BD: Richard Thompson is a genius. He’s written a book about it. Alien Identities it’s called. KC: OK. I’ll take a look. BD: You ought to read it if you get a chance. Richard Thompson KC: Yes, I’d love to. They’ve known of its existence for a long time, but they’ve never gone public about it. Well, in the early ’80s, the JPL... The guys at ... KC: Jet Propulsion Lab. BD: Jet Propulsion... We used to call it the Jack Parsons’ Laboratory, which I think is probably where the original JPL came from. BD: He helped... KC: OK. I’m going to change gears. BD: He worked with Cremo on the... KC: Oh, really. BD: Yes. They jointly wrote that book on The Hidden History of the Human Race. KC: Oh, OK. BD: Cremo and Thompson wrote that. Well, Richard wrote a book of his own called Alien Identities and it’s filled with Vedic facts which you would enjoy. KC: Yes. BD: But the history’s pretty clear. They’ve intervened over the centuries again, and again, and again, wherever it seemed appropriate to their benefit on their behalf. KC: OK, but... BD: They’ve gotten in our wars. They’ve messed around in that whole mess. KC: OK, but what about Planet X? BD: Oh, it’s a reality. KC: Yes? BD: Yes. KC: So what are they going to do about that? BD: Well, apparently they are concerned about... You know the story. According to Sitchin and according to the Sumerians, it’s a reality. Well, our astronomers apparently have concluded that it is indeed a reality. For almost a century, astronomers have been concerned and interested about what they called an intruder that seems to come and go from time to time. And, they can measure it by the perturbations and the effects on other planets.


KC: Yes. BD: Because Jack Parsons established it. Anyhow, they sent out a couple of Pioneers – satellites -- back in ’82, just to try to determine if there was some truth to it. And the Pioneers apparently came back with data which said not only Yes, but Hell, Yes! And the Pioneers concluded... the Pioneer satellite data concluded. So, wow! Astronomers were troubled by that. Whew! Could this thing be real? Well, and what did they do? They sent out what they call an infrared astronomical satellite. I think they called it IRAS. And this was done in ’83. They sent the IRAS out, taking infrared pictures all around the ecliptic, above and below. And apparently IRAS got two giant, positive responses that yes, the twelfth planet, the tenth planet, however you want to call it... yes, it’s real. And that’s when the lid slammed down. KC: So it’s out there. It’s on its way back in, right? BD: According to the Sumerians and Sitchin, apparently it is. And if you are a student of history as I -- one of my majors -- its last pass was 1600 BC. The Sumerians, and Sitchin, and all of those say it has an orbit of 3600 years. KC: Mm hm. BD: So, like many of us, you know, I count on my fingers and toes and figure out... Well, 1600 BC. It has an orbit of 3600 years. Wow! It’s due! Well, apparently, it is. Now. KC: So why are they keeping this a secret? BD: Because... KC: Because you’re an expert on secrets. BD: Listen [sighs]... Every time Nibiru would make a pass, it was not always devastating. It would depend on whether the planet Earth and Nibiru were on the same side of the Sun at the same time. And if we were on the same side of the Sun at the same time, all hell would break loose on planet Earth. Well, apparently the last pass triggered the explosion of Santorini. Thera, the volcano in the Mediterranean, the Aegean Sea, blew its top, brought to a close the great, great Minoan civilization, among other things. It affected Egypt. It’s all in the records, apparently. There are even historians and theologians who say that Santorini’s explosion is exactly what you’re reading about when the plagues and all hit Egypt, and allowed Moses to get the Israelites out. But if you look at 1600 BC and figure... and that was the relatively recent past. It’s due now, and apparently the guys in the astronomical observatories know it. And that, again, is Above Top Secret. Let me give you a tiny example: A number of years ago, there were two brilliant guys working at the Naval Observatory in Washington. Tom Van Flandern is one, who I hope you’ve interviewed. KC: No, but please continue. We’d love to do that. BD: He’s no longer with the Naval Observatory. The other one was the Chief Astronomer at the Observatory, a brilliant man by the name of Robert Harrington. KC: Right. BD: And Harrington gave an interview to Zecharia Sitchin a number of years ago, I think it was ’91 or so, where he came right out and said: Dr. Sitchin, we are interested in this because it ties in perfectly with the work you’ve done on the Sumerians and the ancient planet Nibiru. He said: We’ve found it. It’s real. We have photographs of it. And, he says, from what we can put together, it’s a rather nice planet. It’s about two and a half times the size of the Earth. Apparently it’s heading toward the system, the center of the system. We’ve concluded about everything about it, except that we haven’t named it. And Zecharia spoke up and he said: It’s already been named. He said: You simply call it Nibiru, as the Sumerians called it... The Planet of the Crossing. KC: Mm hmm BC: Well, Mrs. Sitchin and I were in agreement. I miss her. She died about a year ago. She was convinced that Robert Harrington had died because somebody bumped him off because he had the courage to come out and give Zecharia this interview. I don’t know whether you’ve seen it or not. It’s on tape. KC: No, I haven’t seen it, but we interviewed Luca Scantamburlo about this subject and he’s also talked about Robert Harrington. BD: Yes. Well, Harrington gave the interview to Zecharia, and it’s on a video called Are We Alone? And I think you can pick it up at the conference here next week. KC: OK. BD: I have a copy. And I sent a copy to Neil Freer, who’s a man you should interview. KC: OK. Well, we’re in touch with Neil. He’s a very interesting guy. He’s a brilliant guy.


BD: He’s brilliant. He just recently came out and admitted that he’s had an intimate inter-relationship with extraterrestrial intelligence since he was a child. KC: Well, he’s always talking about the Anunnaki. I do know this. BD: Well, he wrote a book called Breaking the God Spell. And he has supported Zecharia’s work for years. BR: I have a question, Bob, if I may, about the provenance of this information, in the sense that Zecharia Sitchin’s work is very well documented, and a lot of people watching this video will be very familiar with his books and with all the intelligent commentary about that. Are you saying you have additional information based on your contacts within the Old Boys Network? Or are you doing a neat presentation of...? BD: Many of my conclusions are my own, you know, and they, in many respects, correlate perfectly with Sitchin’s work which is... You know, Neil has told me... He says, you know, Zecharia really should get the Nobel Prize. But I don’t know what they would grant it to him, in what field. But he’s such an outstanding scholar in what he’s done and with his...The Earth Chronicles is what he calls all of his work. I think there are seven or eight of them now. BR: I have two questions. One is a minor one to do with celestial mechanics. And it’s just something that I’ve never understood. And I’ve heard this from... I’ve heard this question from many other people, as well... that if Nibiru comes from the outer reaches of the solar system, it’s going to be an icy rock, which isn’t going to be the kind of place that any beings could live on, or would want to live on. And researcher Andy Lloyd, who you have probably heard about, has theorized that what they’re seeing in the photographs that you refer to as an orange object is actually a Brown Dwarf, with the possibility of Nibiru being one of its moons, if you like. And there’s a lot of debate about how to apply what Sitchin seems to have been saying to the real practicalities of life on an icy rock out in the orbit of Pluto. And I wondered if you knew, or had anything to say about that. BD: No, it’s not an icy rock. And yes, when it makes its long journey out and back, it gets so far away from the sun that the sun is probably no more than a little tiny prick of light, a little tiny pinpoint. And you would think that it would be naturally icy cold. No, it ... Apparently the planet, like many planets in the system here, generates its own heat. It has in its core a generating heat system very much like our own. We have a system within the core of this planet that is a... that has been described as a thermonuclear reaction, very similar to the sun. Now, most of the life and all of the bounty and all of the beauty of life on this planet comes from our going around this beautiful sun. But I don’t think Nibiru is an icy rock. No. I think, first of all, that it probably generates enough of its own heat, and I think they probably did, indeed, create for themselves, with the advanced technology that they have, a kind of a Dyson sphere. Are you familiar with that? BR: Mm hm. BD: You know what, the brilliant British astronomer, I think, Freeman Dyson, said some years ago that an incredibly advanced technology will have the ability to enclose its planet and retain not only its heat, but its atmosphere. And I suspect that the Anunnaki have done that to Nibiru. And the probably did it... good lord... hundreds or thousands or maybe a million years ago. So the planet... I think the color from it, the dull red-golden color, is a result of that envelope of gold shell that they’ve created. They’ve created for themselves a Dyson sphere around their planet. And I suspect that any advanced technology will ultimately do the same, simply because it makes sense. It’s a practical thing. BR: If they had that degree of engineering capability, why wouldn’t they just live on Mars instead of hurtling through the solar system? BD: Well, they weren’t the original occupants of Mars. BR: OK. BD: They used Mars as a way-station, and they’ve reactivated it. I agree with Zecharia on that, that they’ve reactivated their waysystem, their way-station there. They used to drop off on Mars on their way here. So they were never, I don’t think, original inhabitants of Mars. BR: No. I like what you’re saying. BD: There are a few remnants of the original inhabitants on Mars. There is even some indications which I’ve been looking into, and I’ve gotten some data, that we’re playing host to a bunch of Martians here on this planet. I’m talking about the original species. BR: Do you know anything about the original Martian species? Or, have you ever... BD: Other than... The only thing... I’ve talked to a couple of remote viewers who’ve apparently been able to come face-to-face with them, so to speak, and they ended up looking a lot like American Indians. BR: Mm hm. OK. BD: And I may have met a Martian [laughing]. I’ve known so many strange people in my life. BR: Sure. I mean, I understand this well enough to know not to laugh at a comment like that. That’s for sure, so...


That, believe it or not, was meant to be a minor question. I have a more major one, something that I thought you might want to talk about. Or, maybe I misunderstood you a little earlier on, I think, in a conversation that Kerry had reported with you. Some serious researchers, Linda Howe, Jim Marrs, quite a lot of other people, are really suspecting that there may a hoaxed alien invasion as a kind of major celestial 911 event in our skies. BD: You’re talking about a false flag kind of situation? BR: False flag, yes. And,.. BD: If we were to pull that off... If any of our idiot nitwits back there think that they could pull that off, I think they’d make absolute damn fools of themselves. Because I don’t believe it would work. I don’t think you can do that when you’ve got the real power out there that wouldn’t allow that to happen! BR: Not so much an “invasion,” but a big display in the sky to create fear and make you believe... to control... like Carol Rosen said that she had always been told by Wernher von Braun many years ago. BD: Yes, Wernher shared that, apparently, before he died, that he... It was one of the programs that the government at the time was considering. You know, they’ve had these little plots they’ve been working on all the time. This war, that war, a stock market crash... this, that, you know... all these little magician things that, that while I’m showing you this hand, I’m picking your pocket with this one. They may have had that in mind at that time, but I don’t think they’re thinking of it seriously now, because I think that our socalled Powers That Be -- which is a joke -- are in such close relationship and collusion with the real power [points upward] that it would never work. They would never allow it. It’s like they’re [points upward] not going to allow a thermonuclear war. BR: Yes. BD: There’s too much valuable real estate here! Not just this rich gold mine of human genetics. What a ripe reservoir we are, of genes and... God! The whole species plus all of the other fauna and all of the other flora... this is a valuable planet. And they love it. They own it! We’ve never owned it. We just live on it. They farm us, so to speak. God! [sighs] [Kerry laughs] Charles Forte was right, to some degree. We are property. And we’re going to remain property until we reach a point where we can literally stand up and say: All right. We’re going to do this now ourselves. And prove it to the universe. We’re dealing with a universe filled with life! And most of it is so far beyond our own! I used an analogy one time. And I said: Well, the difference between some of them out there [points upward] and us is the difference between us and these poor guys in New Guinea and those rain forests out there. Now, I joked about that, and then I learned later that that wasn’t really a very accurate comparison. I learned later that I didn’t even come close to an appropriate comparison! That the real comparison between many of them [points upward] out there and us is closer to how we feel about the chimpanzee. And, Bill, if you allow your mind to take those trips, and I know you do, there are creatures and life forms out there that are literally god-like. A lot of the remote viewers who have encountered them -- and I’ve seen a few of them myself -- look upon them as transcendentals. They manifest as living energy life forms, forms of light. They’re the same kind that appeared when Jesus was walking around. Probably the same kind of guys that showed up for poor... what was it? Joseph Smith. I know the history of the Mormon faith. Poor Joe had an event one time happening in his bedroom where two brilliant, beautiful, tall, glimmering, glistening beings of pure light appeared in his bedroom. Those were transcendentals. Now, the difference between them and us is between us and the Rhesus monkey. [Bill laughs] So, I think I’m getting close. Maybe not. But I’m thinking I’m getting close to an analogy that may be more realistic. I have nothing but hope because I’m an immortal being. I’m an infinite life form. If you could see me the way I really am, Bill, it wouldn’t be in this pathetic body with the ... BR: It’s only our bodies we’re describing. BD: Oh, that’s right! You know, this is just the shell. I’ve had it for 79 years. I’ve used it badly, and I’ve abused it over the years. [Kerry laughs] And I’m beginning to pay the lessons, the prices, for that. But if you could see me as I can see you... We are shimmering beings of light. BR: Yes. KC: Absolutely. Well, OK. I have a question for you because he’s [meaning Zecharia Sitchin] got a book out called End of Days. BD: Yes. They look upon us like we look upon head-hunters in New Guinea. Now, you’ve seen the films, you know, History Channel and all the rest. They’re naked. They’re running around with these stupid things on their penises and, you know, bones through their... whatever. Pathetic, sad, primitive savages. They’re not to be feared. They’re not to be abused. They’re to be nurtured and cared for.


KC: And, in that book, he actually talks about Nibiru and the return. But he doesn’t say that it’s actually going to happen now. BD: He says... He thinks it’s about 2060. That was his estimate. KC: OK. And so, where does this information that you have, and 2012... How do we put this all together? Because I’m going to say something about what you’re telling us... because it’s clear that you’re something of an intelligence analyst yourself. You certainly have an incredible background. You can cross-correlate, and so on. But you also have some insider contacts. And you also have contact with Anunnaki, as you’ve said. All right? So, where are you getting your information? And are they saying anything specific about what’s happening in 2012? Because I’m not so sure about Zecharia’s conclusion. BD: Yes. BD: He said 2060, but apparently it could be before that. The Department of Defense is quite concerned about it. There are entire sections of the Defense Department that are working on that subject, particularly. The big question is: Are we and it going to be on the same side of the sun at the same time? And some of our remote viewers have concluded, yes, it’s going to happen this time; that we and it will be on the same side of the sun at the same time. And if the remote viewer... And they’re getting their information from ETs, and much of my information is from the same source. And, yes, we’re in for some bad times. KC: And we’re talking about while we’re still here on the planet, because I don’t know that we’d be alive during 2060. BD: Well, I don’t know whether I’ll still be here or not. You know, I’ll be 80 in March and, you know, I’ve got a ticket out of here. KC: Right. BD: I’ve got it stamped. I’ve got it paid. I’m nine years beyond my warranty as it is! KC: [laughing] No, but I think that you’re going to live quite a while. So, what... OK. So we’ve got this interesting thing going on and we’re getting... We have a huge crack-down on anything to do with Planet X. KC: It’s been made the laughing stock. It’s an amazing thing! BD: Oh, the ridicule is [shakes head]... KC: I mean, I think it supersedes even the ET ridicule. BD: Oh, it does! It does. KC: I think it’s been so strong. And it actually has come, I would say, from the Vatican. BD: Mm hm. KC: So what are they so afraid of, number one? And, number two, have you heard the theory that basically what has to happen is, a protective shield is going to be put around the Earth such that this time it’s actually not going to have the impact that it has in the past? BD: I’ve heard that rumor in passing, and the technology exists to do that. What I have a suspicion is that much of what will transpire will be allowed to transpire. The Earth is not going to be destroyed, and the human race is not going to come to an end. But it is going to be a difficult period of time when it begins. And let me tell you, it has already begun. The reaction from the sun is a clear response to the presence of this other body. Now, this other body has already been photographed by telescopes in southern Chili and in New Zealand. I had asked Marcia to dig into her files. I had an article from a good friend who publishes a magazine in Rome. Adriano. I don’t know whether you know about Adriano Forgione. Brilliant young man. KC: Yes.


BD: Anyhow, he has connections with the Vatican. He has good friends who are Jesuit priests and astronomers. And the Vatican is concerned about it. Anyhow, Adriano sent me an article, including two photographs that have been taken of Nibiru -already! -- taken by, primarily, I think, this observatory in Chili. But they’ve taken pictures at an observatory in New Zealand, as well. So, it’s close enough now that optical telescopes have pictures of it and they’re studying it carefully to try to determine... what is it they call it... the celestial mechanics of how everything moves. Well, if our remote viewers are correct and the ETs have given us some run-down on it, it’s going to be a difficult passing. Because we and it are going to be on the same side of the sun at the same time. And that means all hell’s going to break loose. Now, they have the technology. We’re talking about not only Anunnaki. There are intelligences out there that began a billion years ago. And they have technology that puts them in a category of what Kaku would call a Type III Civilization. KC: Mm hm. BD: So, a Type III Civilization has the technology to ameliorate or mitigate the passing of Nibiru. Now, whether they do that, as you say, put a protective shield around it... Nibiru has done that for itself. They have a protective shield around their planet which is why in the photographs it comes out as kind of reddish-gold. And apparently that’s why they came here for the gold in the first place. Because they were losing their atmosphere and they needed to seed gold particles in their atmosphere to keep the atmosphere from... You know, they go on a long trip out there. KC: OK, but the Anunnaki are here, you’re saying. And yet, the Anunnaki are supposedly on Nibiru as well. Or, what are you thinking? Or, what’s your sources telling you about this? BD: The civilization, the Anunnaki civilization, is on the planet, but the Anunnaki are on this planet as well, all over the damn place... under the sea. The facilities that we know about... inside Mount Hayes in Alaska, inside Mount Perdido in the Pyrenees. There’s one right in the middle of Australia which is near... what, Alice Springs. And what’s the facility out there? BR: Pine Gap. BD: Pine Gap! Yes. Thank you, my friend. Pine Gap. BR: Are you referring to... BD: And that happens to be the R&R facility, according to the remote viewers. KC: What’s R&R? I’m sorry... BD: Rest and relaxation. [Kerry laughs] It’s what we used to call it in the military when we... KC: The R&R facility for who? What, the Anunnaki? BD: For the ETs and the Anunnaki. Yes. KC: Pine Gap. BD: And they’re dealing with human beings, they need rest and relaxation! [Kerry laughs] But, anyhow, the rumor is that Pine Gap is primarily an R&R facility. KC: Have you been there? BD: I’ve been to Australia. I haven’t been to Pine Gap, no. [smiles] KC: Would you lie to me? BD: Sometimes, maybe, but not right now, no. KC: OK. BD: No, I haven’t been to Pine Gap. A lot of my work has been a result of analyzing and sifting and evaluating the work of others. That’s what an intelligence analyst does, takes data from a variety of sources. But I have some information that I have been provided from sources within the U.S. government that tell me that, yes, they are deeply concerned about it. And, they’re worried sick about it. And they don’t know what to do about it, because we don’t have the power to do a damn thing about it! BR: Is the estimated date, as best you are given time to understand by your sources, in the next few years, rather than Sitchin’s estimate of 2060? BD: Well, let me tell you something about... You talking about 2012? BR: I’m talking... well, there are some serious Planet X researchers who say that we’ll see the thing next year, and things could be starting... BD: I think you may see it next year, but I don’t think you’re going to have all hell breaking loose until maybe about 2020. You’re going to have a build-up of factors. It’s not going to happen all of a sudden, just like that. [snaps fingers] You’re not going to go out the front door and all hell’s breaking loose. You’re going to see a series of events taking place involving our geologic structures. You’re going to have increased volcanic activity. You’re going to have increased sun spot activity. We’re at a low right now! KC: Mm hm. BD: But you are going to see tremendous sun spot activity. You’re going see tremendous geologic activity. The Ring of Fire


will probably erupt. Now, these are all going to be clues that all hell is coming, you know. You’re going to have storms. The cyclones have been getting worse, and the hurricanes have been getting worse. You’ll begin having hurricanes showing up in places that they really haven’t troubled us for a long, long time. So, you’re going to have a build-up. Not slowly, but a consistent build-up of geological and weather and sun spot activities. And you’re probably going... The estimate that I’ve heard from people who have studied it, is about 2020. KC: OK, but we have heard that Sitchin, as well-meaning as he may be, is working for the government. And my understanding would be, is they don’t want this information out. So they’re doing everything in their power to make sure that it’s ridiculed, as we’ve observed. BD: Kerry, what could the government, or anyone else, tell you? What could they say to you? Would they tell you that... Grab your hat, dig a hole, hang on? Would anything they say.... KC: Well, is that what the underground bases is all about? BD: Well, I have always had the conviction -- and I’ve put this together over the years -- that the so-called elite, the crème de la crème (they’re self-designated, you know), they have been preparing for chaos for years! It initially was initiated by the thermonuclear threat with the Soviets -- underground, you know, fall-out shelters where we could go. We have our own air-conditioning. We can have our own food supplies and our own water supplies. That was a program that began that I worked very closely with when I was with FEMA over the years. I’ve been in underground facilities you wouldn’t believe! KC: Mm hm. BD: And there are facilities everywhere that are not known. I mean, there’s a big facility right under Fort Wachuga here in Arizona. I mean a massive one! That will never come out. I’m telling it now, but, you know... There’s a deep, deep, massive underground facility under Fort Wachuga. They’re all over the place. And I went to a Department of Energy school at Camp Mercury in Nevada. That was the first time I visited Site 51. I may have shared that with you. KC: Mm hm. BD: Anyhow, I went to school in, oh, ’79, a Department of Energy school on radioactive emergency disaster response, anyhow. KC: So, you went into the underground base at 51? BD: No, I talked to the guys who built some of them. I also took a bus ride over the pass from Camp Mercury, which is the atomic test facility there, over the pass. I went into Site 51, Groom Lake, from the rear. And it was no big thing, just a tremendous facility there. Most of it was underground. And the hangars... KC: So. OK. First they reacted to the Soviet threat and all that, and the nuclear... BD: It’ll build up slowly, and it’s already subtly begun. And they don’t want to talk about it. No one wants to share it. I mean, look, for God’s sake, at the lid they’ve kept on the reality of ET activity on the Moon and Mars! KC: Mm hm. BD: With the ridicule factor, and the lid coming down... I think Robert Harrington did lose his life because he said too much. He says: Oh, it seems to be a rather nice planet, and we know about it, and all we need to do is name it. And, then, bless his heart... You know, he’d never had a heart problem, but within a year he was dead with a heart attack. You know, when Ike met that crowd at Muroc, which is now Edwards... KC: Right. BD: ...in ’54, he met the Anunnaki. KC: Mm. BD: Poor Ike, not long after that, had a heart attack. It was more than he was able to deal with. The shock of that reality took a toll on him. KC: Mm. BD: And that’s one of the reasons why the Brookings Report reached the conclusion it did! You can’t tell those poor folks out there all this. They couldn’t handle it! Well, B.S. They can handle it! Damn... Human beings can handle anything. KC: [laughs] I have to agree with you. BD: I mean, we’ve gone through hell over the centuries. KC: Absolutely. BD: We can handle Attila the Hun and Adolf Hitler, we can handle anything. We’ve been designed to handle anything. We haven’t been designed to live very long, but then again, there’s another story there. KC: Right. BD: Where did you think that this tremendous outpouring of knowledge on the double helix, our RNA, our DNA, and all of that, has been coming forth? Is there some connection with the


fact that maybe we now have a relationship with the guys who originally designed us in the first place? KC: Sure. KC: Wonderful. BD: Of course we have. We’re now in the process of redesigning and engineering our own DNA. And we’re being told how. We’re being shown how. And thank God they’re sharing it with us now, because the first time poor old Adama and Ewa wanted the knowledge, they threw ’em out of the Garden, as it were, you know? And that’s another thing I want to talk about briefly in passing... is that there’s no such thing as original sin. And that’s a crock of manure that’s been forced down your throats for thousands of years. There is no such thing as original sin. The human race never fell. It was pushed! [Kerry laughs] And this species that you and I are a part of, this beautiful, wonderful, hopefully incredible race of humans does have a future. And it is in the stars. And we are going out there to reclaim our rightful place, where we should have been in the first place. KC: OK. And this gets into the Secret Space Program and terraforming, because there is some terraforming going on, preparing for what might happen if Nibiru comes through, and if the Earth is in such a state... We’re talking about terraforming Mars, maybe beyond. Have you heard things about this? BD: Yes, terraforming is a fine art. It’s been going on for millions of years. The Earth itself was terraformed. KC: Right. BD: You know, it was prepared. The Garden was prepared for life. And then life was introduced and has been nurtured since, from the very beginning. Terraforming is a fine art, and some of those guys out there who’ve been around a billion years are pretty good at it! So, you see, I don’t know whether they’re planning to reterraform us after Nibiru passes. Or whether they are going to try to help alleviate the damage in the meantime? I would suspect the latter. Maybe they are planning, through their engineering genius... and, my god, the fact is... You know, they’ve got artificially constructed objects in space in the rings of Saturn that are over 2,000 miles long! Space ships 2,000 miles long! I have pictures. I’ll share them next week. KC: OK. What about John Walson? Are you familiar with his pictures of the craft around the sun? BD: I’ve heard of it, but I haven’t seen them. KC: All right. Just wondering. BD: And those were taken by our own astronauts. Now, you get the guys on Apollo 13 -- and they’re all, from what I understand, all three still alive -- and you won’t get a one of ’em to admit who snapped the shutter on that camera. But the film is there and the negative number is there. The roll number is there. And, there it is -- a NASA photograph of a five-mile-long artificial space ship! Now... And that’s only... That’s small. KC: Well, let’s talk about the astronauts for a minute, because... What’s going on with Clark McClelland? And why is he having such a problem coming forward? BD: I didn’t know Clark was having a problem. KC: He has a book that he’s trying to write. He’s penniless. He’s had a terrible time. They don’t want him to talk. BD: No. They probably don’t. KC: OK. And, have you met... You know, have you talked to the astronauts? What about Edgar Mitchell? Have you talked to Edgar Mitchell? BD: I... I talked, before he died, with Gordon Cooper. I was on the phone a few times with Cooper. He even sent me an autographed photograph of himself. I admired him because he was one of the mavericks that had the courage to come out and say what he had seen. I’ve known Ed Mitchell for some years. Every time I get a chance to see him, I chat with him, and I consider him a delightful man. He’s very warm and terribly bright. KC: Are they mind-controlled? BD: To some degree. KC: Have their minds been wiped? BD: Cooper... Cooper never was. KC: OK. BD: They never got to Gordon. And I don’t think they got to Neil Armstrong either. But, all of the rest of them, to some level, have been kind of ... what’s the word I’m looking for here? [sighs] They have been conditioned not to speak. And in some cases, they may have been hypnotically effected to not remember. In Dark Mission, Hoagland says -- and the evidence is pretty clear -- that they hypnotically... Debriefed is what they called it. But, supposedly, they were hypnotized to help them enhance BD: We’ve got objects... I have photographs taken by Apollo 13 of alien ships five miles long, and I’m showing those over at San Jose.


their memory, to recall. Apparently some of them had been hypnotically advised not to remember certain things. As much as I admire Ed Mitchell and respect him -- a tremendous, wonderful guy -- he has admitted publicly in front of other people that his time on the Moon, walking on the Moon, was kind of vague. He can’t... He can’t recall everything. And, of course, that’s sad. I don’t think they ever got to Neil Armstrong because when he got back he left the program, said: To hell with it, I’m out of here. He went back to Cincinnati and started teaching math at the university there. And Armstrong hasn’t said five words publicly since. KC: Uh huh. BD: And then you have the case of Aldrin. Now, Aldrin has had experiences where he has been with friends and the subject would come up. And Buzz would start to cry or he would get nauseated. One time -- and Hoagland touches upon this, I think, in Chapter Ten in the book -- where Aldrin was in conversation with a few people and with his wife, having a few drinks and it was just relaxed. And somebody asked him a blunt, straight-to-the-point question, and he had to run out and throw up. He got sick! Now, this, to me, is the result... and I’ve studied it enough over the years to know that it sounds to me like hypnotic suggestion. KC: Mm hm. BD: He has been hypnotically conditioned not to remember, or to not even discuss it. He gets nauseated. And in one instance with a bunch of friends, old Fly Boy types, he ended up starting to cry. Now, this breaks my heart because Aldrin is a good man. He was one of our better men to be selected for that program. KC: Um hm. BD: You know... You know the story, and this is common knowledge. They got back from Apollo 11. They put Aldrin in a sanitarium for about six weeks. He had... suffering from alcoholism. Do you believe that? [Kerry laughs] Do you believe one of our best and bravest, one of the finest in the Apollo Program suffered from alcoholism? Nonsense! You know... Apparently, it was the programming, to be reinforced. Now why would a grown man with his background break down and cry like a baby or end up getting nauseous and barf on this subject? That’s hypnotic, post-hypnotic stress. KC: So what is it on the Moon that is, you know, that is so important that they want to completely whitewash it out of those men’s minds? BD: Oh, my god! The astronomical societies, the professional astronomers in this country, have been guilty of criminal activity! You may quote me. They’ve been guilty of criminal activity for years to not discuss the reality of what they knew on the Moon. There are major facilities and major activities going on on the Moon all the time. Not only that, the Moon has water. Now, whether it’s a natural process from the satellite, or whether it’s water that’s been stored there for use, there are vaporous signs of a form of an atmosphere in the bottom of some of the craters. Now, astronomers have seen these pictures, but that dishonest bunch of nitwits won’t discuss it. They’re scared because... You know why? Ninety percent of their income comes from government grants. And when you’ve got a government grant and that’s your prime source of income, you’re going to say whatever the government says you should say. Or don’t say whatever the government doesn’t want said. Well, anyhow, there is some atmosphere on the Moon, at least in the base of several of the larger craters. There is water on the Moon. But there is major activity going on! I mean, we’re talking about engineering activity. There are giant ships that come and go out of the craters. There are lights all the time. They have noticed bridges appearing and then disappearing. I mean, they’re active as hell on the Moon! KC: What about... BD: But the same activity is going on on Mars! You’ve seen my photograph, I guess... It’s not only my photograph. But there’s a city the size of Chicago underground on Mars that’s generating so much heat it shows up in infrared photographs. KC: Are you in touch with John Lear? BD: I’ve met John. I’ve been at his house a time or two. I’ve visited him. I have a tremendous respect for him. The reason I like John is, he’s been nailed, as I have, as a damn fool maverick, you know? KC: I mean, this is his pet, you know, project. BD: The establishment has tried to ridicule John Lear, and you can’t ridicule John Lear because he’s got sources, similar to some of my own, that are beyond question. He’s getting people inside feeding him information almost on a regular basis. [Kerry laughs] I get mine in bits and pieces when I go to conferences and when I meet people, you know. But John gets it direct. KC: OK. I have a question for you about Arlington Institute and what’s happening and might be happening in October, because we have a lot of information coming out about October and about something that may be planned. I don’t know if you’ve heard some of this stuff. We have... Our top secret witnesses are coming out and saying, you know, that the economy is being engineered to crash here in the U.S, that... BD: Oh, this whole thing has been engineered.


KC: All right. BD: It’s been diddled. You know, this is a joke. And the poor guy out there, the poor working man on the street, as it were, is being screwed royally! But, you know, this whole thing... Kerry, I would almost come to a point that 90% of what you call reality - our threats with the Russians, the Georgia invasion, the stock market collapse -- all of this is all engineered. KC: So tell us about it. So tell us about Georgia because... OK, to get back to... I know you know the guy who’s head of, or was head of, the Arlington Institute. They are sending out a newsletter saying... inviting people to tell them what dreams and visions they’re having about October, because October has become such a hot month. In tracking, there is something called Half Past Human. Have you heard of them? BD: In passing. KC: They’re doing, you know... They do language. They track with web bots all over the internet, basically tracking where language is going. They’ve been doing it since ’98 with computers and so on. And they were able to chart, like before 911, this huge raise in consciousness that some event was imminent. What they’re getting for October is the same thing, only something even more long-range in its effect. BD: Well, I have a tremendous respect for John Peterson. He’s a brilliant guy. KC: All right. BD: I’ve known him for some years. KC: So, Arlington Institute is suddenly asking for peoples’ dreams and visions about October. Why? BD: Marcia... Marcia is more in touch with John now than I am. She’s a computer person, you understand. I won’t touch the damn thing! KC: I understand. BD: Because, as I told you earlier, I enjoy my privacy. And if you’re on the world wide web, you don’t have any privacy. KC: OK, I agree with you there, so... OK. But you know him. And I’m just basically... You’re saying this thing is engineered. So what happened in Georgia? What do you know about it? BD: Oh, it was all engineered. KC: OK, so the Russians, you know, were tipped off. BD: The President of Georgia did what he did just to lure the Russians in. KC: Right. BD: And, he went in... The Russians could not have ignored him, for god’s sake! He invaded one of their little... well... KC: So, what’s the purpose behind it, though? We know what happened, but why? BD: I think... What could the purpose be other than to distract peoples’ attention from this over here to this over here? While our economy was falling around your knees, we’re all paying attention to the Russians invading poor little Georgia! Well, the Russians didn’t invade poor little Georgia. They went out and whacked the President of Georgia’s little pee-pee, as it were. [slaps his hand together]. Stop that! And they pulled back, you know. KC: Right. BD: You know how a magician works? He gets you in front of, you know... and he’s doing this with this hand while he’s picking your pocket with this one. KC: That’s right. BD: And that’s what the government is doing. And when I say government, it’s not the government you think you’ve got. It’s not the, you know... God, that’s all a façade in itself! The government we’ve got is probably being totally run by the Anunnaki, because there is a power beyond power [points upward] that’s pulling the strings. KC: Right. BD: They call them the Illuminati, but there are guys above the Illuminati that are really in power. KC: OK. But we’re told the Vatican is behind a lot of it, and that... In other words, the Vatican is behind what’s going on in the U.S., that there’s a plan. And you’ve got the Anunnaki. This is not a positive plan, OK? To take down the U.S. BD: Well, they think it is. KC: Do you think it is? BD: Their ultimate idea is, yes, a positive idea. KC: OK, what is it? BD: A one-world government. KC: Oh, all right. BD: Of course that’s what they want. KC: Right.


BD: And they’re going to have it, eventually. KC: Absolutely. Now, you can have a positive one-world government. Right? BD: But the growing pains... The growing pains that we go through before we get there... It’s going to be pretty horrendous. Not only are we going to have to put up with this crap with Nibiru, which is a real thing... But this growing process that we’re going through to end up eventually with a one-world government is going to be painful as hell! And there’s going to be a lot of blood on the streets before it’s over with. Sadly enough, that’s, in my opinion, a fact. And that’s being manipulated [points upward] from a very high level. KC: OK, but we have “white hats” in the U.S. government that are actually trying to prevent this. Are they not? BD: We have some good men and good women who are well aware of what’s taking place and what’s transpiring. And they’re trying to modify, ameliorate... Is that the right word? To make this growth pain as painless as possible. They’re trying to not have as much blood as it might take. Growth from adolescence as a species and as a society is somewhat like the painful growth of an adolescent kid 13 years old who’s trying to grow up. Do you remember when you went through that? KC: Sure. BD: It was not fun time. KC: Absolutely. So... OK, but let’s get down to the nuts and bolts. The stock market is crashing. You need to invest in gold and silver if you want to stay alive. BD: The stock market was rotten to its core. KC: Absolutely. But, are you telling people to leave, to go to South America? BD: No. KC: What’s your advice? BD: I’m telling people that you’re in for some difficult times, and I say this in my presentations. I jokingly look at them and say: You are all doomed. There’s not a one of you that’s going to be around a hundred years from now. You’re doomed! So, the hell with it. Enjoy the ride! [Kerry laughs] No, I tell people who are interested in listening to whatever it is I have to say, that you’re in for some difficult times. It’s going to happen. There is no way to avoid it. We cannot go on as we were, because some of our systems were rotten to the core. BD: Well, I don’t know about that. I’m not sure it’ll happen in October. I suspect it may occur within the next year. But I don’t know... I haven’t had any dreams. My dreams have been pretty fascinating recently. But none of them have been terribly troubling. And I know this is all happening. It’s going to take place. It’s inevitable. It’s been orchestrated. The Illuminati do exist. They are in power. They’ve been in power for years. They’ve been demonstrating that power ever since 1913 when they created the... What the hell is the banking system? KC: Federal Reserve. And, our banking system, the insurance programs, all of that... stock market, Wall Street. Those guys were absolutely rotten. KC: The housing industry? BD: The housing industry! That was bound to fail! You talk about a bubble! It was bound to fail. It had to fail. Well, I’m glad it failed. Hope to hell that they learned something from it. Now... KC: OK, but we’re talking... Are we talking about martial law in the United States? I mean, what are we talking here? BD: You’re talking about a time when you may have martial law. It’s only one step away. You know that the authority has been given to the president to declare it. KC: Right. BD: Congress gave that authority to the president years ago. I’ve even lost track of how long it’s been. But, anyhow, all the president has to do, whoever he may be... and that doesn’t matter much anymore either, because one nitwit is very much like the other. You have a “national emergency,” and it’s declared. KC: Right. BD: Boom. Martial law! You declare a national emergency which has not been declared yet. KC: Right. BD: But we’re right on the edge of it. KC: Right. BD: And you’re going to have martial law. KC: OK, so we don’t have an election. Right? BD: Well, that’s... You’re thinking about an October surprise? KC: I have no idea. I’m asking you.


BD: Federal Reserve, yes, which is a private corporation. We lost most of it in ’47. I don’t know whether you were aware of that, but that was a big year. National security became everything. It became a member of the triad. In ’47 we declared... We made the National Security Agency. We formed a pact with the Brits, the Australians, the Canadians, and New Zealand, the ACUSA Pact, which most people don’t even know exists. The ACUSA crowd, all of us, Britain, the U.S., Canada, New Zealand, Australia, are all like this [clenches hands together]. Whoever is in the White House and whoever is at Buckingham Palace... it don’t matter. KC: All right. BD: The power behind the scenes has been running this damn thing since 1947, and Ike saw it. It scared the hell out of him. He met the Anunnaki. That scared the hell out of him. So they’re pulling our strings now, like they always have. KC: OK, so what’s your solution? What would you tell people? I mean, in facing the future, in trying to reinvent the future. Certainly Marcia is working with people to... to become enlightened, to apply... BD: She’s doing a tremendous amount of work to help people trans... make this transition. Kerry, we’re not just going through a transition. We’re going through a transcendent transformation, literally... a transcendent transformation. We’re going to come out of this thing, when it’s over with, a totally different species. We’re not going to be the same people we were in the past. And that’s good! And it’s going to hurt. And it’s going to be painful. And I tell people... and I’ve said this repeatedly: Don’t get too uptight about it. You’ve been through hell before. You’re going through a bit of it again. But once it’s over, once you’ve made that transition, we’re going to have, hopefully, a new world, a new future, a new beginning. And I think that’s the end of the Great Year that we’re going through. We’re going through the end of a 26,000-year cycle. I tell you, 2012... phhhft, don’t matter! First of all, Christ was born seven years before. And this is a fact. And if you don’t believe me, get Sir Lawrence Gardner, who is probably one of the best historians we’ve got working today. Lawrence Gardner’s got the facts. Jesus was born in 7 BC, on the first of March. Now, if you want to count from his birth, like we supposedly have been doing, add seven years to 2008. You end up with 2015. That’s pretty close to 20... KC: Oh, so you’re saying we are actually in the year 2015 now. BD: I knew it! You see... BD: We’re in the year 2015 right now. KC: Right. So that means that Nibiru... When you say it’s coming in 2020, it’s actually due in about five years. KC: [laughing] And so I have to say you’re absolutely right, and it’s an incredible pleasure for us to hear this from yourself. BD: That’ll give or take a year or two because the celestial mechanics... They haven’t really worked it all out yet. We’ve got computers you wouldn’t believe but they’re still trying to feed in some of the data. KC: So, are you... Is one of the remote viewers you’re in touch with Ingo Swann? BD: I haven’t been in touch with Ingo for some time, but I... Kerry, I’ve been doing some remote viewing. KC: Right. BD: I’ve even had a couple of out-of-body experiences. KC: Mm hm. BD: I’ve been doing a lot of meditating. When you go in... When you step into that world, there is no time, and you can talk to anybody, everywhere, all at once. Now, that sounds silly to anyone who doesn’t understand what I’m trying to say. When you step into that realm of timelessness, and you remote view, and you step out of your body, and you go into altered states, and you meditate, you’re in a timeless, infinite reality that people communicate... You’d be shocked and amazed at the wealth of information that’s out there just to tap into. The old ones used to talk about the Akashic Records. KC: Mm hm. BD: It’s real. It’s real! And it isn’t just about the past because, Kerry, there is no past, nor is there a future. There’s only an eternal Now. And a physicist sitting here in this room would say, Balderdash! Because they wouldn’t grasp for a minute what I’m trying to talk about. But old Ingo would. KC: Yes. Absolutely. Well, I’ve been some of those places myself, that you’re talking about. BD: Probably. KC: So, we’re looking at 2013 by our calendar. BD: Well, no later than 2017 [smiles]. I’ll throw 2017 out. KC: OK. BD: And you can take that to the bank. [laughter] 2017. Now that... KC: OK.


And I... You know, I would like to, at this time, just open the floor and say is there anything that we haven’t covered here that you would like to talk about? And, then, of course, we would also like to invite Bill to ask you some questions. BD: We’ve danced around on a whole bunch of things for the last hour. I enjoy it. I enjoy chatting with you two guys. You’re pleasant people. As I say, I’m an old codger, and if you plug me in and turn me loose, there’s no telling where I may end up. I’ve been around 79 years this trip. I’ve made a dozen or two previous trips which, amazingly, I remember quite a bit about. When you start going into that timeless realm, you step into that infinite which we’re all part of, memories of other lives come flooding into you sometimes. Oh, god! The things I’ve seen, the things I’ve done, the places I’ve been... this life... are kind of shocking. The things I’ve done, the places I’ve been, the lives I’ve lived before are beyond belief. I... I’m not boasting. This is not a boast. But I’m an old soul. I’ve been around on this planet a long time. And, I, amazingly, remember. Some of the memories I would rather not remember because they’re painful. Hell! I have memories of Sumer. I knew the Anunnaki back then, worked with them. I was one of their products. I know them now. And I don’t have any fear. And, in bringing this to a close, I would like to say to whoever is watching: Get rid of the fear. You have nothing to fear. You are an immortal, timeless being who has an infinite future in a glorious universe that’s so filled with beauty and light that we on this little tiny planet couldn’t begin to grasp. [clenches fists] But I say to people, Don’t be afraid, for god’s sake! Gather around you those you love. Spread that love around and go into tomorrow with courage because you’ve been through a hell of a lot worse before. So, be hopeful. Love one another. And have courage. And that’s really all I have to say. KC: Well, thank you, Bob Dean. It’s really an honor and a pleasure. BD: Thank you, Kerry Cassidy. I enjoyed every minute of it.




Project Camelot: Dr. Bill Deagle - Interview Transcript
Prognosis for Planet Earth Vista, California, September 2008
BR: This is Project Camelot and my name is Bill Ryan with my partner Kerry Cassidy. And we’re book-ending here right between us. We’ve got Dr. Bill Deagle, and it’s a tremendous privilege to be with you. BD: Thank you very much. BR: I just joked to Dr. Bill just now that I’m claiming the Guinness record for having listened to The Granada Forum Lecture all the way through seven times, which I had to do because there’s so much data in there. And not only that, in a phone call just a few days ago, Dr. Bill told us that he probably only presented about 10% of the information which he had to offer. And one of the things which we hope to do in the next couple of hours is to see whether we can get on record as much of the remaining 90% as possible. BD: [laughs] BR: And in particular, many of the people viewing this video now, and the two of us, Kerry, and myself in particular, are really interested and focused on what is going to be happening in the immediate few weeks and months. And I think one of the phrases that Bill used was “the calm before the storm.” What’s the storm? BD: Well, the best way to think is the Emory War College. And if you talk to people that work in the Marine-Army War College and other places, what they do is, they war-game it out. They have people that sit around big boardroom tables, and then what they do is, they put it into simulation computers. They use Simula PL/1 and other languages that were actually developed for the military, and then they put it on their own super-computers and then they run through a number of simulations. So every war, every conflict, every national emergency, has already been scenarioed out. People don’t realize just how much computing power has been put into these things -- for everything from ET invasions, to a tsunami hitting the west coast, to Cumbre Viejo [Ed. Note: an island in the Caribbean that could collapse and cause a tsunami on the East coast of the US], to a civil disruption because of an earthquake in the New Madrid fault in the Midwest. So basically everything’s been simulated. There’s a number of items. Now, what I often try to do on my radio show, which is the Nutrimedical Report; it’s on Genesis Network. And the two web sites, if you want to check it out, is nutrimedical.com, where

The greatest sins are the sins of silence in the face of evil. Dr Bill Deagle Few in the UFO/ Conspiracy/ Disclosure movement are as controversial as Dr Bill Deagle. Outspoken, brilliant and passionate, he has generated as many critics as he has made committed friends. We're well aware of this controversy. This three hour video is essential viewing - we suggest - for anyone who has criticised this man. We stand behind his testimony: inasmuch as there's nothing we know which contradicts anything he has said. On the other hand, the more we learn, the more we find we're able to validate the whistleblower testimony that Bill Deagle reports. The interview presents a different side to Bill Deagle. We engage him in conversation (and hold our own!) and we believe we have succeeded in bringing out the human being, the warm and caring side to him, that aspect of someone who in his passion for the truth, and for the potential splendor and magnificence of the human race, has sometimes spoken in terms so strong that some have found him hard to hear. He is a Prophet of modern times: but many misunderstand that term. A Prophet is not a seer or a fortune teller. A Prophet - in the original meaning of the word, and the way Bill Deagle uses it - is someone who says: "This is what's likely to occur if we don't wake up or shape up." In that mission, Camelot shares and supports his stand. Start of interview Bill Ryan (BR): You know what? I’d just like to say I’m really, really glad to have met you personally. Bill Deagle (BD): Yeah. Well, same here. [laughs]


I have a lot of the anti-aging, life extension, civil defense, and other information. And the other website is clayandiron.com. The network is Genesis Network. It’s out of St. Paul, Minnesota. And their website for getting podcasts, streaming and on-demand, which replays the shows, is gcnlive.com. What I try to do on my show is… I realize that one of the things about having a regular radio show is you can bring in all of these experts and guests, but there are several ways of approaching it. My approach has been to try… if they listen to enough shows, that people will start to see a montage of images that’ll change their paradigm. Because you can’t change people by necessarily beating them over the head with the facts if they emotionally aren’t ready for that. BR: Yes. BD: And you also have to change their paradigm by what I call the “little grades” that happen as they listen to more and more people, and they are willing to accept one message from one type of person, or one way of doing it, or a little humor, or some music. BR: Yes. BD: And eventually they get to the point where they’re able to then accept the intellectual truths, the spiritual truths, and so on. The two key things that I try to teach on my show are: The first thing is that people don’t know what they are. People really don’t know what kind of a being they are, and because of that -- which is in many cases kept purposely away from them – they’re manipulated. For example, if you didn’t know you were a bird, you’d obviously not try to fly. Right? BR: Yep. Good analogy. BD: The other thing I try to teach them is that everything that they have learned in the past has been predigested and presented to them so they really don’t understand the nature of the universe they live in. They don’t even know what “reality” is. BR: Yeah. And all this is one of the parameters in the model, presumably, that people are interacting with this “stage show”… BD: Right. BR: …with a very limited amount of information at their disposal with which to react, to make appropriate judgments. BD: Right. So what I try to do is, I try to stretch them beyond that. One of the things that I try to do is… There’s no such thing as a “sacred cow,” whether it’s a political view, a religious view, a scientific view. It has to be, you know, “trust but verify”. You know, Ronald Reagan, before he had too many aspartame jelly beans. [laughs] BD: Right. They’ve done lots of modeling. In fact they have one of the most advanced programs at the University of California in San Francisco. And they’re tied directly into the National Reconnaissance Office. This, by the way, I do regularly on my show -- release classified information. And there they have all this access to the Cray 5s and Cray 4 super-computer arrays, and so they will do simulations. The first thing is that people need to understand, whether we elect McCain/Palin or Obama/Biden, or the Green Party with McKinney, the events are already in motion to create a regional and world economic catastrophe and then to create regional and world banks. BR: So they’ve already got the script for the movie, but they haven’t got the cast yet. BD: Right. They’ve gone to central casting, and whoever the players are, they’re in a sense going to be like riders on the wave of this. BR: OK. So what’s the script? [laughs] BD: Well, the script basically is that… And I’ll back up a little bit, so that… BR: Yeah. And also a few minutes ago you mentioned modeling. It would be great to tie this back into the modeling scenario that you mentioned. BR: And there’s also… Would you agree that there’s not a lot of time now? BD: No, there’s not a lot of time. And there’s a number of what I call “spasms of events” that’re going to happen. And to just give you the timeline of where things are going rather than giving you specific dates… So the idea is that eventually you’ll get enough evidence and enough logical things that… You have what I call “the two witnesses”. It has to not assault your intellect (the information), and it also has to ring with your spirit. BR: Good. But, you know, a lot of people watching this now have already done that homework… BD: Right. BR: …either by listening to your shows or listening to ours, because we’ve been operating in essentially the same way. BD: Right. BR: Or both. BD: Right.


Kerry Cassidy (KC): And that’s located in Denver, right? BD: Well, that’s where the main node is. It’s actually Shriver Air Force Base. But they also have their systems elsewhere. And people need to know that the world that they believe in is a fairytale that never existed. Right? BR: Right. BD: So anyway, this is at university level. They have a social modeling super-computer program. And what they do is, they try different perturbations. They’ll try a little thing, put a balloon up, put a media event. And they’re able to model that based on getting information back. They’re able to do specific searches, which are called “architectural searches,” not all that different from the Half Past Human or the Princeton University kind of “eggs” thing. They’re actually mining the Internet; they’re mining phone conversations. They’re mining data from peoples’ cable boxes, which they’ve cut two ways so they can know what they’re watching. And they have what’s called “data architecture” software that can actually analyze it. BR: Yep. KC: [Inaudible] BD:. . . .ah, that’s a possibility, that they can do that. But the most important is they just know what they’re viewing. And if they know what they’re viewing, what the box is turned on to, they can actually put this back into their data. And they can then say, based on area code distribution, demographics, etc… BR: Yep. BD: Because people need to know that every phone conversation always was monitored. Every fax always was monitored. And they have had super-computers. And in 2003 they launched what’s called the AI system, which is an intelligent super-computer with the Intelligence of a human being -- in other words, a smart human being but able to think 10 trillion times faster, with the access to all known knowledge and history and a complete access to the Internet and all the communications pathways. So… KC: With that in mind, the modeling they are making… Their plan, their agenda, is going to be played out as what? The biggest surprise they can think of? BD: Well, no. What they are do is build a cybernetic copy of the Earth. KC: Right. BD: They can actually do models with that and try to do what’s called “timeline pathway analysis”. BD: Well, I’ll give you an example. One of the first things is, by doing this modeling, it means that they don’t do it in just a kind of… In other words, they’re not just trying it on the public. They try a different thing. For example, they had the Countrywide financial collapse earlier this year, and then they had the collapse of Lehman Brothers. And they try each thing. And they try to see what kind of response they’re getting from the public. And they feed that back into the model. Now, when I took care of the people that were working on the Sentient World Project, they actually created a cybernetic model of the Earth. It’s an actual physical model in hyperspace that is down to a tolerance of about a centimeter-and-a-half. All the roadways, buildings, everything, people. Everybody inside that model are actually considered, called, nodes. That’s their actual term they use for it. BR: Yep. BD: Besides doing the simulator computer modeling, they’re using other technologies. Some of them are quite alien, if you want to call it. BR: I can believe it. BD: And they’re using these technologies so they can actually analyze timeline pathways. Because what they’re trying to do is… KC: So we’re talking about Looking-Glass, then? BR: Yep. KC: Right. But how do they choose? Do you know that? BD: Yeah. BR: An entire virtual world, with virtual people. BD: In a virtual world. I actually took care of employees working on what’s called the Sentient World Project in Denver. KC: Yes. But I still don’t understand, you know, how they’re choosing their scenario. In other words, we know that the financial collapse… BD: Well, they can try a scenario and they can actually try it in the cyber-world and then they can see the response based on… KC: Right. But have you gotten feedback from say, secret deep black projects, saying, you know, they have chosen this scenario? BD: Ah, some things. Some things. Yeah. BR: Give us some clues, Bill.


BD: Yeah. Exactly. And, of course, a lot of the people don’t understand that most of these are actually based on what’s called torsional vortex imaging, which is hyperdimensional imaging. BR: Yep. BD: And torsional vortex imaging we’ve had since the 1950s, reverse-engineered. BR: Yep. BD: Torsional vortex imaging was the top project of HAARP. It was not the bottom project; it was the top project. BR: OK. BD: So torsional vortex imaging allows them to look through the Earth to see all the resources. So the primary thing was to drop a thermal-magnetic mirror with aluminum and barium salts. BR: Which is the chemtrail project? BD: Yeah. But it’s really high, 73- to 80-thousand feet. You won’t see these. BR: OK. BD: And when the particles are put up there, they last two to three years in space because they layer out and they get locked into that layer at the upper troposphere. OK? BR: Yep. BD: And it acts as a mirror for what’s called torsional vortex imaging. So they can throw a pulse and see an echo that comes back and they can image it. BR: I got it. Yep. BD: So they can see oil resources, gold, minerals, titanium, whatever they need, and they can also see through the Earth and see underground bases, cities, facilities. So, for example, when Sichuan… BR: Some of this stuff that isn’t even ours. BD: Right. Yeah. And they can also see stuff that’s not ours. Exactly. They see giant caves and cavern systems that go hundreds of miles through the Midwest. BR: Right. BD: But they can also see things like military bases, like the Chinese nuclear and military munitions base that was struck with a tectonic weapon in Sichuan, west China. That was a specific use of tectonic technology. Right? BR: Yep. Mm hm. So they’re doing all of that. They do this on multiple levels and they feed the data back into their super-computers to decide what will work best. One of the things that we did… Back in the late 90s, I was a doctor for Rocky Mountain Occupational Medicine, and we got the contract for the Hazmat teams in Colorado, for the FBI and the Center for Disease Control to do a war-game simulation called Operation Top Off and Operation Dark Winter. We did a simulation at the Performing Arts Center, on a “simulated release”, not a real release, of pneumonic plague. And we wanted to look at the kill ratio, in terms of how quickly the system could be activated -- the EMS system -- to be able to get people and treat them and triage them and whatever. And we did a similar one down on 17th Avenue, downtown Denver, in a second-floor window of an apartment. And we even set up a sprayer to spray out the window, with a little compressed air, a little vapor stream, which was supposedly anthrax. So, it would be a weaponized anthrax stream that would actually spray out that second-floor window. And that anthrax stream would then… We would then have people go… We had the Hazmat officers and Special Forces, and they would go to various hospitals, like St. Joe’s, Presbyterian, St. Lukes, etcetera. And we tried to see, with recording all these data intake sheets, whether or not, And it was not just the U.S. It was the U.S., British, and Canadians, where they were doing a joint war-games simulation of this, and trying to see the civil defense, and the radiation plume, and the movement of the public and, you know, how to handle the bodies, and all this kind of stuff. KC: OK. But where are they going with this? That’s actually what we… BD: Yeah. Well, where they’re going with all this… Just to give you an idea: The first thing is, you have to look at the menu of what they have. And they try various items, try to perturbate on new computer modeling. And then they decide whether they’re going to proceed now or in the near future. Like, a lot of people say: Well, why hasn’t there been another 911? BR: Mm hm. BD: Right? Another… like blowing up cities or doing other things? Because for years they’ve been doing war-game simulations of a 10-kiloton nuke in a number of cities. For example, this year it was in Portland Harbor, and last year it was in Charleston Harbor, where they actually did a simulation of a. . . BD: Now, we have our version of it. And the Russians have a new system called a super-capacitor technology, so they were able to make these very, very powerful capacitors that can generate similar things to our HAARP technology. Right?


Number One, emergency departments would activate CDC, get the proper specimens, get the people treated in a timely fashion so they wouldn’t die. We killed everybody. BR: OK. KC: Why did you kill everybody, though? BD: We killed everybody because the system was too inadequate. The Emergency department doctors, the infectious disease, the activation of the system… The tracking back to the source of the spray would have been too long. So if there was a lethal weaponized anthrax -- it only needs, let’s say, 80 spores to cause a lethal infection rather than 80,000 to 100,000 – that we figured out from the dispersal at that level on the canyon of, say, 17th Avenue, would have killed at least 4- to 5-thousand people that were, during the middle of the day, would have been exposed. BR: Right. BD: Now, the reason why I bring up that model is that they’re doing this all the time with their cybernetics models, because they’re trying to steer society along certain timelines. And they have various forces. All the people in this – you hear the word “New World Order” -- they’re not in agreement. And there are various levels. And most of ’em think that they’re at the top of whatever level they’re at, and they’re really at the bottom of another level. OK? Even the people at the top that are human. Because the New World Order is not being run by humans. BR: Yes. BD: Well, lots of wild cards. BD: OK? BR: OK. BR: Exactly. BD: And you need to grasp this. The analogy I use on my show is… In their training in England, as part of a power game, they’d bring you to their gardens. And their gardener would kind of make a little maze. And then you’d go through the little maze and thought you were quite clever because you’d get out in a matter of moments. And then what they’d do is, they’d take you to the big maze, which was done by a very clever gardener. And the only way you could get out was if you were talked out. BR: OK. BD: OK. If you weren’t talked out, you wouldn’t make it out of the maze, and you’d be stuck there the entire afternoon and wouldn’t have tea or anything. Right? BD: The first one is the human one. Human beings are a polydimensional being that far transcends what people usually think of as human. Just to give you kind of… To back up in terms of a little physics: Our plane of existence, the energetic plane, has five dimensions, not four. OK? BR: Yep. BD: Then the spiritual plane has seven dimensions. Some people call that astral. And then there is the 13th, which is the eternal. OK? And everything are harmonics of that. That’s why… The very nature of the existence itself is literally the passage of spirit through energetic planes that creates a montage. BR: OK. BD: So the thing was to humiliate you to realize there was no way you could get out of the big maze unless you changed your paradigm of how to get out of the maze. Right? BR: Very good. Right. BD: And what they’re doing basically is, they’re… In a sense they’re “sheep dipping” the entire society to kind of buy into the lies of what’s going on. People don’t know what kind of… You know, even modern history has completely been rewritten. Everything… BR: But there is some waking up going on, which you need to also factor in. BD: Yes, there is. BR: It’s also being factored in. BD: Sure it is. And that’s why there’s been quite a delay. In fact, if you look at the published documents, like Global 2000, about population reduction; if you look at the planned release of things like avian flu; if you look at the planning on blowing up cities with dirty bombs or micro-nukes, or doing other things, they’re way behind schedule. BR: This also means that they’ve also programmed in the Nutrimedical Report and the Project Camelot interviews. And they’re taking all of that into account and then recalculating everything. Right? BD: Ah, well they are. But the problem is that there’s a number of wild cards that they're not in control of. BR: Which are?


BR: We’ll buy all of that. And what we are here, what I see in my field of vision, is the tiny tip of a huge iceberg. BD: Right. BR: Yeah. And the iceberg is a beautiful, fantastic wonderful eternal thing. BD: Right. Exactly. In other words, this moment that’s existing right now as we are taping, has always existed. BR: Yeah. I’ll buy that. KC: Absolutely. Time is circular. But Bill, what I wanted to know is, what are you saying they are going to do with this? Because obviously if they’re behind schedule… And here we are, at the end of September, and we’ve got the American economy going in the tank. BD: Right. KC: And so what’s the next step? BD: Well, here you’ve got to think about what their goal is. It’s almost like a mouse that reaches certain barriers, a smart mouse. You put certain barriers down, but a mouse can still smell the cheese. It’ll get around that barrier and it’ll figure out how to do it. And if it’s a very intuitive mouse, it can see beyond the barrier to where the pathway is to get to the cheese. And if it’s got lots of access, then it’s going to do that. Right? BR: Right. BD: So what I see is this. Their goal is to have a world bank. Their goal is to have regionalized currency zones. They published it. In fact, one of the things that you have to understand -- which is really bizarre but also true -- is that part the “religion,” if you want to call it, or the dogma, of the globalists is to prove that they are a super class, or the predator class, who have the right to make these decisions. Because they have to publish it, and the profane don’t understand it. But it’s plainly published. Like for example in September of 1973 the Council of Foreign Relations… BR: It’s all in plain sight. BD: It’s all in plain sight. KC: Like the Iron Mountain Report, for example. BD: Yeah. Or the 1974 document that talked about the greatest danger to the world is population growth. Or the Global 2001. . . BR: The Georgia Guidestones. BD: Exactly. It’s all in plain sight. And the problem is that people will look at it and say: Well, it can’t be true because it’s in plain sight. And all great spiritual leaders that spoke truth that they knew in their heart -- whether it was Buddha or Zoroaster or whatever -all of these great leaders have spoken something. And many times it’s been converted, or perverted, or twisted. Or they themselves didn’t have the whole truth, they just had portions of it, so then it became a “religion.” Now, religion is a substitute for relationship. BR: Yep. The two perspectives tie in with either being in touch with that Higher Self, which is the “I AM,” the one that says Let there be light, the spirit that’s in us. It’s almost like, if you want to say: It’s a battleship. And they say: Well, it’s painted pink. It can’t be a battleship. It’s got plants coming out of all the turrets. [Bill laughs] Even though it is a battle ship and it’s in the front yard. [more laughter] KC: What aliens, though, are running the show, in your opinion? BD: Well, I’m going to get to that because I’m going to give you a little different spin. What we have to do is use a lot of discernment. There’s basically two perspectives in the universe -and this is whether you’re human or nonhuman. What we are or any other “sentient” being in the universe is a spirit-being that’s transcending through an energy matrix, creating a reality. OK? In other words, we are co-creators of our own timeline and future. BR: Absolutely. BD: And if you look at people like Michio Kaku and advanced physicists and so on, they talk about the universe in terms of energy. You know, like a Zero Energy culture, and the Level One energy culture, a culture that is able to leap across the galaxy and is bound by time and space. But you can also use those similar principles for, you know -similar kinds of characteristics -- for dealing with what I call the spirituality of a sentient civilization. Right? BR: Right. BD: So you need to use both the energy thing and they are tied together. BR: Yep. BD: Because there’s lot of suppression of the technology that we already have, because spiritually we are very… what I call a Zero Order culture. BR: Yep. BD: We’re still in the playpen or the crib of civilization and we’ve been actually quarantined for 3 shars, which is Zecharia Sitchen’s “passages through the galactic plane of fire,” it’s called.


BD: And I call it “real lies going on”. And it doesn’t matter if you’re talking about Buddhism, Christianity, Judaism, Zoroastrianism, Atheism. All the “isms” in the world fall into two categories: Either you hear the Voice of the spirit that created you and created all that exists, the continuum -- because without a single voice there is no universe -- one “I” voice, I call it. There is no one “I” voice. So, therefore, it’s either your will – the will of, in other words, deciding for yourself what is good or evil -- or hearing the Voice. In other words, you don’t need to tell people what’s right or wrong. If they’re in contact with their higher self and with the Creator that created them, they know what’s right or wrong. BR: OK. Now, just bring that back to where you were when you were talking about the wild card factors of who people really are -- this is my paraphrase of what you were saying -- and how there are certain things that can’t be programmed into their supercomputer, because, actually, you’re talking about actual human beings that are eternal and magical. BD: Exactly. And you see that point ties in with the factions, if you want to call it. You know, you can go to all kinds of different religious books, whether it’s the Hopi Indians or the Christian Bible or many other books, and they’ll tell you that there’s been visitations to Earth over all of the ages. BR: OK. Now… BR: Yes. BD: And the way it ties into this is that some of these visitors have specific characteristics that are very common. For example, Naga, in the area of Oceania. Right? Which are, you know, the serpent people or the feathered serpent god, or whatever. What you’ll find… Or the Dagon, which is, you know, the amphibian beings that come from a world. And therefore, even the hat, for example, that’s on the Pope, is actually called “the sign of Dagon”, which is a fish-god or Oannes… BR: Yes. Yes. KC: OK. Right. But . . . BD: …which is always in the background, in other words. BR: Right now there will be people watching this who say: I know I’m eternal and magical, and I’m really interested in what you’re saying. So what can I do? How can I be? What action can I take to capitalize on my wild card so they may not be able to predict what I’m going to do next? BD: Yeah, what I’m trying to get at… You know, I hear lots of different reports, that people say: I’ve been in touch with the Pleiadians or Andromedans, or I’m in touch with this group or that group. But people need to use extreme, extreme discernment. BR: Yep. BD: And the way I think about it is this. Say, you know, if you went to a new city. Let’s say you were from South Africa and you came to New York City, and you didn’t know where to go, KC: Except that, if they’re that intelligent, they also realize that we’re grand spiritual beings in our own right and therefore they’re actually dealing with something that’s much more massive than just our 3-dimensional form. BD: Exactly, exactly. Here’s the point, though. You’ve got two perspectives out there. You’ve got one group -- we’ll call them, just for the sake of it, you know, like David Icke. He was speaking at the UFO Conference up in San Francisco. He calls them the Reptilians. OK? Or you might call them the serpents, like it talks about in the Bible. OK? And in fact, you’ve got to understand that when you look at the Bible at things that are a description to people that were shepherds and artisans 2- to 3-thousand years ago. Right? Or you look at other ancient books… And what they’re really trying to describe here is something that’s actually quite similar to what’s happening today. So let’s say we have one group that says: We are a predatory super-nation of super-scientists that don’t have any spirit, but we invade and take over worlds. BR: Hum. BD: We can invade the mind-space dimension. We can attack on the physical level. We can put policies in place to cut off the connection between their physical body and their spiritual body - through things like fluoridation and genetically modified food or electromagnetic pollution. but you went to the wrong part of the city. You might not come back out alive. OK? BR: Right BD: And a similar thing… You have to think of the universe that way, too. BR: Yep. BD: There’s very good places in the universe, and very bad. BR: Yes. BD: OK? Just think of it this way. Any being that’s capable of leaping across space/time and arriving in our world, you have to assume that their intelligence is limitlessly greater than ours. And therefore anything that they communicate to us could either be very true or very, very maliciously manipulated to control us, almost like a pack. BR: Exactly. BD: In other words, we would be treated like an ant, or cockroach or like my pet dogs. They would have no way of even understanding what we’re talking about, so it would be almost sport. Right?


KC: So are you suggesting that it is the Reptilians that are involved with the current Illuminati? BD: Well… Yeah, yeah, yeah. KC: This type of agenda? BD: Of course. Yeah. It’s just no different than what the Bible has been saying all along, -- the serpentine. KC: Right. So I want to sort of base it here in the here-and-now a little bit so we can understand what you’re talking about. BD: Right. A lot of times, though, they misjudge it. Because for example, when… David’s done a lot of really good work. But one of the times… If you don’t know what you’re seeing because you’ve never seen anything like it before… What he did is, he took a thing called ayahuasca, which is an analog of dimethyltriptamine. And ayahuasca and dimethyltriptamine opens up what’s called, you know, the spirit eye. People call it the third eye, the astral eye, or whatever. But basically it is, we’re all born as children with this ability to see in the spirit realm. And that’s why children see their little friends, and see other things, and see good and bad. And they have a thing called pavor nocturnus, or night terrors, because they can see in the spirit realm things that aren’t pleasant. They’re very nasty. Right? BR: Yes. BD: They’re not just making it up in their little minds because they’ve got hormone surges. They’re actually having a problem. So the reason why I seem to be a little circuitous here is that people misinterpret the signals. For example, after David went and took ayahuasca down in South America, and he got into this altered state, he started seeing what he misinterpreted as shape-shifting. Shape-shifting doesn’t occur. BR: Well, he hadn’t seen it so much himself, as he was taking reports from Arizona Wilder and others. BD: Yeah. BR: And others, and taking those at literal face value. That’s my understanding. And I have no criticism of him whatsoever. BD: No, no. I’m not criticizing. BR: I’m very interested in your take on this. BD: Well, OK. Here’s the important part of it. It’s not to criticize him because I think what he’s doing, he’s seeing in the spiritual realm what’s always there. BR: Right. BD: And when there’s an intensity of that reality, it breaks through, for people even that don’t have any, you know, regular sensitivity. So for example, you know, I’ve talked to people who have been in the presence of Hillary Rodham Clinton. BR: Right. BD: And Hillary Clinton has a presence of a demonic entity, if you want to call it that, a transdimensional Reptilian entity that’s so powerful… It’s one of the most negative feelings I’ve ever had. OK? BR: Mm hm. And you’ve been in her physical presence yourself? BD: Oh yeah. I was one of the doctors who took care of the Englewood Fire Department and the first kid who was shot in Columbine, Mark Taylor, and we spent about, probably an hour or so, at the Dakota Ridge High School. And… Because I do see into the spiritual realm. OK? And that happens many times after people have had near death experiences. I died at birth and again at 8-½. And because of that, there’s a massive release of DMT. And when that happens, it changes your brain structure and the very nature of how you perceive things. If it happens when you’re really young, it does it at a time when you can understand and interpret things. If it happens when you’re older, you can misinterpret things. BR: Interesting. Yep. Gotcha. BD: Did you follow me? BR: Yes I did. BD: Which is the reason why when you go to any religious group you’ll find that it’s always children that are exposed to things like this so that they can understand them better. Otherwise, you know, you can be creeped out if all of a sudden and start seeing things and you say: Well look, I’ve lost my mind. I’m not rational anymore. KC: OK. But you’re saying, in terms of Hillary, you’re actually describing what you consider to be a demonic entity as opposed to a Reptilian. Is that what you’re saying? BD: Oh, it’s a Reptilian all right. When you see it, you’re not seeing a 5-foot-whatever female. You’re seeing a giant Reptilian entity that’s in a different dimension. KC: Exactly. But because it’s a Reptilian entity doesn’t necessarily make it demonic. BD: Ah, well, let’s put it this way… KC: It’s still an ET from a different dimension. BD: Well, this was evil. This is evil, yeah. This is evil.


What people need to understand is that there’s a vast universe out there. Just listen to a lot of the scientists -- and everybody that’s probably listening to this will understand. If you just… They’re looking for bacteria on Mars. And they’re looking for other evidence that there’s even simple life forms on Titan and other planets, and planetoids, and so on. The fact is, if you just take the minimum number of factors, there’s 100-billion stars just in this galaxy, and there’s a 100billion-billion galaxies. And that’s in this so-called known cosmos, in this known cosmos, which in a sense is probably an elemental particle in a yet larger universe. Right? BR: Right. Yep. Yep. BD: Right. [laughs] KC: Well, I’m still back where you were saying that David Icke was wrong because… BD: Well, wrong because I think… KC: Wrong because he was seeing reptilians and you were saying they don’t shape-shift? BD: Yeah. Well, things have to also match science, too, because if you have a shape-shift from a smaller individual to a physical presence, that is, you know, a giant Reptilian, or whatever, you’re going to actually have… The thermodynamic laws will cause spontaneous combustion. It just wouldn’t occur. So what you have to do is… Unless there are changes in the laws of physics, which isn’t going to occur, then you have… What you’re seeing is something that’s completely, you know… doesn’t occur. KC: What you can see, though, is, your perception is changing and you’re able to see into different dimensions simultaneously. BD: Yeah, that’s an ability to… KC: So they aren’t changing. Your vision is changing. Your ability to see is changing when you’re looking at them. BD: Yeah… Yeah. Now, a lot of the time people have to use these kind of things. Now the biggest problem I am worried about is that, when there’s a lack of discernment, there gets to be a mixed message. And so many messages have a lot of noise in them that people won’t get a clear understanding of either the opportunities or the dangers of what’s going on. KC: Sure. BD: And so you’ll have people, for example, like Arizona Wilder and others, that say they’ve seen these things happen right in the middle of ceremonies or whatever. And what they don’t understand is that the intensity is so great, they’re actually seeing into the spirit realm that’s happening in a parallel universe. KC: Yes. All the highest rulers of those civilizations would put their children through sex-magic rituals, human sacrifice, and other things, so they would create, if you want to call it, an astral gate in their mind, so they could attach these transdimensional entities to them, almost like the sucker-fish on the shark. OK? And you could not advance within any of these higher orders unless you went through these ceremonies. So… KC: Svali talks about this, actually, and so does Leo Zagami. BD: Right. So what happens is, for example… If you’re going to get to these higher orders within the Illuminati you actually have to go through these rituals in order for you and your... The greatest power is for your ancestors to actually “curse you” to be attached by these things, to gain more physical, psychic, emotional and intellectual powers. So then, therefore, you can become a “hu-man” -- which, in Welsh, is serpent man. And if you look at the Magna Carta, it was written not for the “mansters” -- which is the word manster, which converted to monster -- it was for serpent-man or the Royals, those who had gone through the ceremonies, who were “hu-mans” which means serpent-men, and had the transdimensionals literally attached to them almost like a parasite, a psychic parasite, to create a “human” which is a new, if you want to call it, hybrid. Clay and iron. In other words, you have the iron of the serpentine transdimensional beings with their higher science and abilities and so on, literally attached to the “man” to create a “hu-man.” KC: OK. So basically you’ve got Illuminati with this proclivity, whatever you want to call it. And then what happens? Because that’s where we are now with society. These people have been leading the way -- if you want to call it “leading” -- down a dark corridor, so to speak. BD: They consider themselves… You see, one of the problems is a matter of perception. If you feel in your own twisted way… Now the dark alliance has been, basically, with higher orders of these secret orders that it’s passed down through. In the most recent past, going back the last 6,000 years, it was the ancient Sumerians and the Egyptians. BR: Right. It’s their perception that’s being altered, not the physical reality. BD: It’s not physical reality. Yeah. KC: We’re tapping into that. But at the same time, let’s talk about how does that impact the Illuminati agenda? Because we’ve got a lot of Reptilians who’re influencing that agenda. BD: Well, let me explain what happens. If you look at all the secret societies down through history -- not just in our current history in the last 6,000 years, but basically pretty well all of human history, going back to previous civilizations that have risen and fallen -- there has been this, if you want to call it, dark alliance. OK?


You’re deciding what is right or wrong, and you feel you have the right to decide, and you’re the keeper of civilization. For example, if you look at the tunic on the Teutonic Knights. Right? You’ll see these strange swinging arms in a form of a cross. That’s not a Christian cross. That cross was long before Jesus Christ, long before there was the first Jew, long before Egypt and Sumeria. It goes way back to Atlantis and before. KC: OK. You’re talking about the swastika as well. Right? BD: The swastika is a little different symbol, but that cross actually is a symbol called “As above/ below”. OK? So what you’re doing is, you’re looking at the swinging arms of a galaxy, above and below the equinoxes. That’s what you’re seeing there. OK? KC: So here we are at this juncture. We’re actually moving into the galactic center. BR: But, but. . . BD: Right. So we’re moving not only through the plane, but at an equinox. So we have the passage through the plane. And an equinox has very important effects, not just on the physical plane, because we’re entering an energy belt which affects the DNA. It affects lifeforms, communications and everything. But it also affects the spiritual aspects of the creatures on the planet. But it also opens up gates. BR: Bring this back now to the problems of discernment, to the wild card factors that have got to do with the eternal magical creatures that we are, and how this can’t be modeled in the supercomputer. And then again, what they do think they are trying -- or what you do think they are trying to do with us over the next few weeks and months. Is there a way to align this information in a way that it’s practically meaningful to people out there, who actually, as we speak, are thinking: What do I do with my job, my family, my money, my occupation? BD: Yeah. I want to get to that, too. BR: There are practical problems to solve here. BD: Yeah. The first thing I think, number one, is they have to discern… Number one: Am I involved with a religion, “real lies going on”, or am I involved with spirituality? And I’m not necessarily going to put a label on it or tell ’em which one. BR: Right. BD: What I try to tell ’em is that… For example, I’m a believer, but if I go to a church I’m going to cause trouble, because I know things that they can’t know, won’t know, that are going to show that a lot of things that they’re teaching are patently lies. OK? KC: Of course. BD: And, unfortunately it isn’t just one group or another. I’m closest allied to, if you want to call it, I’m like a cosmic messianic believer. And I don’t even like to use the word Christian, because it was actually a blasphemy against Christians and their little anointed ones. BR: Yeah. That term’s already been hijacked long ago. BD: Right. It was hijacked. Now, here’s the point. If you actually understand the split in the so-called eastern and western church, you understand the reason why there’s such a determination to not only hijack Judiasm, and Christianity and Islam, and why this is all kind of leading us toward what’s called this final conflict of Armageddon. It’s been stage-managed at a higher level. Right? BR: Right. KC: Right. BD: It’s all staged-managed. And the problem is, people don’t understand they’re being manipulated, even though their every step is being manipulated. Oh yeah, we’ve got to get Al-Quaeda. Well, you know, who created Al-Quaeda? When you start showing that these things were totally manufactured. And AlQuaeda means “the database”. KC: Yeah. BD: But when you show evidence that the World Trade Center towers were demolished with advanced explosives, including, you know, micro-nukes, and thermite; or you start to demonstrate that the financial line -- like John Boncore, who’s a Mohawk, who actually speaks prophetically. He was on the show last week. The way I want people to do is, first off, don’t accept something unless it’s intellectually correct, at whatever level they are at, and unless they go back quietly and pray and try to hear the Voice of the Creator God. KC: Mm hm. BD: Because the problem right now is that there’s so much noise, it’s discernment to keep them in “babble-on” or confusion… BR: Yeah. BD: …so they won’t be able to discern or they’ll just dismiss it. And they’ll say: Look, you people that talk about UFOs are nuts. OK? If somebody had told me this years ago, I’d say: You’re crazy, there’s no way. And, you know, going through medical school training, surgery, whatever, I’d say there’s no way that that could be true. Because my mind is now focused. I’m going to be a doctor; I’m going to help people; I’m going to do this and that. I’m getting access to the totality of human knowledge and science, and I’m going to… At some future date we’re going to be able to help cure people of disease and so on -- not knowing


that only 4% of information is accessed to even the university Ph.D. tenured professorial level, at the top levels in the world, and the other 96% is by invitation only. BR: Right. [laughs] BD: Right? Or that society. . . And when you’ve been invited to enter those realms, then you start to realize, like: My gosh! Your whole world is shattered. Right? And that’s what’s disturbing about this, and I’m trying to get the message to the people. The hardest is to argue with people. I remember having an argument a year and a half ago with Professor Steven Jones, who felt that thermate could have brought down the World Trade Centers alone. And, of course, until they’ve had a background in quantum physics and nuclear physics -- I was supposed to go to MIT and I went into honors biochemistry -- I asked him a series of questions that he couldn’t answer on a scientific ground. But he wanted to cling to his a priori idea anyway. Even though there is probably evidence it was thermate, there had to be nuclear explosions. There could have not been directed energy weapons. And I tried to explain to him. Because I was a doctor for US Space Command and Strategic Defense, Star Wars. And I said: I’ve talked to the engineers at very high levels, and I know exactly what’s capable and what we have. KC: OK. You have a really interesting background. OK? BD: Right BD: Right. KC: And I find this very interesting. KC: But a lot of people say: Well, you’re working for them. BD: Well actually, I was told to call you. BD: Yeah. I know they’ll say that, but what people need to do is, they… Ultimately, they need to do is an intellectual analysis and they need to pray. They need to trust their gut, in other words, their spiritual gut. KC: So how did you get out of it? Because in a sense you did work for them. Right? You were their doctor. BD: Well, I was their doctor. But here’s what happened. People are so compartmentalized. To give you an example: Initially I talked to someone working at, say Falcon. And they had a little badge that would allow them to go into one hallway, and down one pathway, into one room with a security card. And they’d face-scan them with a retinal scan, and fingerprint scan them, and boom, they go in their room. And they’d spend so many hours there and they’d walk down the same pathway. And they were monitored all the way. KC: They had to follow lines. Isn’t that right? BD: They had to follow certain lines on the floor, and if they don’t, they’re immediately apprehended. And it’s not pleasant. OK? So they’re very highly compartmentalized. So you can talk to your doctor. Now, these guys really loved being able to talk to me because what I would do is, I would talk KC: You were told to call us. BD: I was told to call you. KC: Wonderful. BR: By? KC: By your direct contact above? BD: Yeah. If you want to call it that. I have the direct phone line. KC: You’re not the only one that’s been told that way to call us. BD: Yeah, yeah, I was told to call you and that it was time to call you, not an hour from now, but right now. And I did. OK? So that’s, you know, interesting. And things always happen like that to me, you know. KC: They do? BD: If I told you all the stories you could fill books, you’d have stacks of tapes of amazing stories. to all the different people. And because I have this advanced technical training, which they never assumed I did -- like you know, artificial intelligence, super-computers, electronics, quantum physics, and other things --I’d talk to them about their project. And after while they were more interested in hearing what I had to tell them about what everybody else was doing and projects that they didn’t know anything about. So as time went on I gained more and more knowledge. BR: Yeah. And it continued training you what questions to ask and you knew how to listen. BD: Right. They wanted to talk because they couldn’t tell their wives. They weren’t allowed to tell anybody, their son, their wife, their children, anybody, or their next door neighbor. KC: So you get this aggregate of information. And on top of it, you’ve had these life-death experiences. BD: Right. And some, what I’d call supernatural, and some other types of experiences that all fit together. KC: OK. You’re putting all of this together and then you eventually create this radio show. Right? And you’re interviewing witnesses and so on. But where are you at now, as we take this whole package? And you’ve got something to say here because you called us and. . .


KC: OK. BD: You’d say: That can’t happen; and that can’t happen. But it has. KC: All right. BR: I want to bring it back to: what are they modeling? KC: Yes. [laughter] BD: Yeah, yeah. BR: And what about these guys with their children and their money? Yeah. OK. Fine. BD: Well, yeah. And I’m going to get to that. So basically I want people to discern, to use discernment, and I’m. . . KC: Therefore, why do you think you were told to call us? BD: Right. It actually is another expression of the “I AM.” OK? BD: At the moment I had no idea. OK? [Bill laughs] KC: Totally. KC: OK. And do you have an idea now? BD: Yeah. I have a very good idea. KC: Yeah? And do you want to tell us, or do you want to go down that road? BD: Yeah, anyway… [laughter] What people have to understand is that human beings are a supernatural transdimensional being that’s made in the image of the Creator of the universe, just like the Bible says. OK? KC: Absolutely. BD: But not only that, we’re like cells in a body. And we’re connected, almost like neurons. So that if we get to a level of revelation, it’s not just for our own purpose to use greedily; it’s to serve the entire body of mankind. And the best way to think of mankind is not just, you know, in this plane of time/space, but mankind is a non-local being that stretches across the cosmos, and into the past, present and future. OK? So when you start to grasp that and you have that intuitive. . . That’s why I tell people… When I try to do talks, I say: You know, there are two groups of “religions” on Earth. There’s those that believe in reincarnation and those that don’t believe in reincarnation. Right? And the reason is, they’re both right and wrong. KC: OK. BD: And the reason is, for them, that’s their level of understanding because that’s where they’re at. When you become BD: We’re a gardener of the garden. We’re actually. . . Think of each spinning galaxy as a spinning flower in the universe. OK? KC: Yes. But let’s get back to this, because we have Reptilians influencing the Illuminati agenda. And we’ve got an agenda that’s being rolled out on a bunch of eternal beings that don’t really recognize their eternalness. And so how’s it going to play out? BD: Well, first, the thing that I’ve found… KC: Why has this been allowed to get so far? BD: Well, it’s allowed to get so far for a couple of reasons. The most important thing in the universe for sentient beings is to have free choice. In other words, to choose to remember. A lot of people think that, you know, you’re going through life to learn things, or to prove a point or to reach something, you know, like a point system, like a grade. And that if you reach a certain grade, you can transcend -- which is totally garbage. It’s like my little daughter with Down’s Syndrome, she doesn’t have to earn points to be my daughter. OK? BR: Yeah. BD: You are a son or daughter of the Most High God. And what’s happening is your birthright’s being stolen away from you, just like the story of Jacob and Esau. It’s being stolen away from people. truly intuitive at the highest levels, there’s no such thing as reincarnation. KC: Sure, because we’re eternal beings. BD: Right. Once you start grasping that, it’s like the words of Yeshua Ha'Mashiach Jesus that says, you know, Though you do it to the least of my brothers, you have done it to me. If you actually felt the pain of allowing your government to attack and blow up little girls in Baghdad, you wouldn’t do it because it would be like a neuron connected to another being. KC: Absolutely. BD: Or you wouldn’t walk by a plant starving for water without watering it. You wouldn’t spread depleted uranium on crops because you could feel that. In other words. . . BR: You wouldn’t do these things, because you’re doing it to yourself.


And the problem is, it’s being stolen away primarily to tell them things that they are not. Or to fill in dogma. And, of course, it’s interesting -- the word dogma means “am-God”, backwards. They’re being told that they should decide what’s good or evil rather than deciding from the spirit by making that connection. Because the only way for people to connect and not have an eternal matrix is to have the spirit inside them. KC: Absolutely. BD: Now the problem I see is this: People have to discern. There’s two groups in the universe. There is, if you want to call it, the Dark Empire. We will call them the transdimenstional beings. We might call them the Higher Lords of Darkness and their Princes. And there’s many different civilizations that’re in this. We don’t even need to get into names, but there’s a whole series of them. BR: Yep. BD: You might call them the serpentines, the Reptilians, the Tall Grays, whatever you want to call them. OK? There’s a whole array of these. And on the other side, there is a Grand Council of Civilizations out there that are very, very caring and they are connected to the spirit of the Creator God. They are advanced beings, both human, humanoid and nonhuman, across the cosmos and universe. BR: And of course this was why the movie Star Wars was such a tremendous modern myth because it represented this whole archetype that everyone really understands even if they don’t know it. BD: Well, they understand because it’s something that they’re resonating with their spirit. You see. . . BR: Exactly. BD: It’s almost like someone going through a neuralizer like the show MIB -- Men in Black. And so they’ve forgotten something but something can jar them back to remember it anyway. Right? BR: Yeah. Right. KC: Absolutely. KC: OK. BD: OK. So in a sense you’re in a state of what I call spirit sleep. Your spirit’s asleep so that it can then start to reawaken its connectedness with everyone else. KC: OK. But what’s the nuts and bolts to how this plays out, though, at the moment? BD: Well, I’ll just give you a little story. This is one of the most recent ones. Roughly one year ago… And I get visions and dreams. OK? And one of my primary roles isn’t to be a doctor or a whistleblower or a radio host. Those are all secondary. And really, to be honest with you, they’re just a vehicle to try to get BD: And that’s one of the reasons why I do my show. And that’s one of the reasons I believe I was told to call you. I kind of come from the perspective… I want people to get rid of “religion” and get, in every moment, into spirituality. In other words, don’t go to church on Sunday and think you’re safe all week, or whatever other day you like. Don’t go into your prayer room and think that you’re… KC: OK. But as a prophet… I mean, this is all good but that’s like the A, B, C’s and we’re, like, way beyond that with our audience. the real truth out -- which isn’t just facts. Because the problem is, we have a sea of facts. KC: Mm hm. BD: But it doesn’t change people. For example, when you look at the anomalies around 911, how many people have insisted that there’s a proper investigation? Right? KC: Absolutely. BD: Right. And they’re not. Just to follow the financial side and all the other anomalies… And we still have all these factions, even in the so-called 911 movement. Well, it’s the same way with “religion.” I call it “real lies going on.” They have their dogma they cling to because… It’s what they call their “hell insurance,” because they’re fearful of knowing these things out here, of hell, or separation, or whatever it is, at the end of their physical life. So hence they kind of stuff themselves with dogma so that they can feel safe. Right? KC: Mm hm. OK. But you’ve just told us you have three roles that are your secondary roles. What’s your first role? BD: My first role is to speak as a prophet. KC: OK. BD: OK? Now, I’m not talking about Monty Python, fill the stadium with prophets. And there’s many different prophets. For example, I had on the show last week John Boncore/Splitting the Sky. And I really believe that there are many people, especially now, that there is a prophetic role for them. OK? KC: Sure. BD: And they’re from all different nations, colors, peoples, whatever, on the Earth. It’s like the body of mankind. But there are specific prophets that have what I call, if you want to call it, an “executive role,” to try to bring those together, and to bring the picture together so that there can be a platform to have an overall synthesis that can be presented back to mankind to say: Now see? So they can start to kind of get with the program before all hell breaks loose.


BD: I’m sure you are. KC: Let’s give them some credit. BD: I’m just telling you what’s not on my show, because a lot of times they won’t get this on the show because I only present certain portions of it. Now here’s the next step. KC: OK. BD: The next step is, one year ago I was taken by the Grand Council, to the Eschaton. KC: OK. BD: The Eschaton is beyond time/space. OK? Now this may seem very bizarre to people. I’ve been there three times. This last time was one year ago. And it’s not an hallucination. It was a courtroom, if you want to call it, beyond time and space, with 24 witnesses through human history. OK? KC: OK. BD: And we were brought before the Council because they’re making a decision, either thumbs-up or thumbs-down, for our civilization. OK? KC: OK. BD: And we’re at the knife’s edge of a bad decision. KC: OK. And I believe you. BR: Right. BD: Mankind as a corporate being has to make decisions to get on the right timeline. KC: Absolutely. BD: And if they don’t make the right decisions, we’re going to get on the wrong one and we’re going to become a dead cinder. In a sense this planet, and if you want to think of the Earth as a living being, it’s like a giant womb of these spirit-beings called human beings on Earth, or mankind, that are about to be birthed to become – I call homo luminous or homo galacticus, or you know, an advanced mankind that can interact with advanced civilizations across the cosmos -- that doesn’t have to have a matrix of billions of laws; that doesn’t have to have a chip in us to track us to make sure we’re good; and do all these things. Because where we’re at… We’re at this nexus or crossroads where we either are going to have the law as Jesus Christ said himself, which was one of the great teachers, Yeshua Ha Masaich, which means The Father in the Flesh. OK? And we are the father in the flesh. So are you! As we wake people up, it manifests what’s always been there. It’s the manifestation that counts. We’re not greater than God. We’re just… BD: The consciousness of all of these people down through human history. KC: OK. BD: To the council and all these different beings in the courtroom, and they basically came up with a judgment. And they said: Now we’re sending you back, and you have… The time is very short before judgment is going to fall. And mankind as a corporate being must get this message. And if they don’t get the message correctly, which transcends religion, politics, national borders or their version of a new world order or world government… Because they’ve got a world government that’s absolutely noxious. You see, a world government can be world government with national boundaries and nations. It can be with people who keep their recipe cards and control of their civilization. It can be with a world that has some degree of order without knocking all boundaries down and creating regional trade zones. Because the world is not based on economy. It’s based on, if you want to call it, identity. OK? And what they’re doing is, they’re homogenizing the identity so they can control the population and turn people into cybernetic robots, is what they want to do. KC: Absolutely. BD: And they’re already moving us step by grade into a matrix. Now, the future that they’re talking about is where people, citizens, can even have the option of having a brain-interface chip and be loaded into a rack. And they won’t even have to exist in the physical world. Their bodies would be put into life extension technology, loaded into a rack for centuries or thousands of years. That’s where we’re headed. People say: Oh no, that won’t happen. I say: Well, I’m sorry, but that hellish world is right around the corner. But it’s dependent on humankind. And whether we’ll even get to that, or most of this civilization will die… These people are feverishly building underground bases at the rate here in America, for example, of two bases per year, anywhere from 18 to 26 billion dollars. KC: Yes. BD: Anywhere from 5.24 to 7.25 cubic miles in size. Most of them are in dormant volcanic domes or built with nuclear explosions underground to create these massive domes or what’s called a matrix where they cut these giant tunnels. KC: But that’s not going to save them. KC: OK. So you’re in front of this council and you’re witnessing… What?


BD: No, it won’t save them. The fact is, it’s not going to be a technical answer that’s going to save them. And that’s where the problem is. These are advanced intellectual beings without spirit. And that’s the basis of what we call the Reptilian or serpentine empire. It’s like a group of super-scientists with these super-intellects, with massive knowledge of energy and time/space, and jumping across the galaxy, and life extension, and everything. But with no spirit, because they do what is right in their own eyes. Bill Deagle (BD): ...You know, like one of the things they’ll often do is, they’ll say: Well, Deagle, if all the stuff you’re telling is true, you’re either crazy, or why are you walking around alive? I say it’s because I’m being protected on the supernatural level, on the cosmic level, and on the spiritual level, and also on the physical. I mean, there’s a lot on the physical level, too. And there’s a number of people even within the organizations you might call the Illuminati, the CFR [Council on Foreign Relations] and so on that actually see what’s going on and see the insanity of it. Bill Ryan (BR): They’re not all evil. BR: Right. KC: Absolutely. BD: And that’s what’s happening, is whether it’s genetic technology that could relieve illness, and stop many of the pains of fragility as people get older, and we want to lengthen human lifespan. I belong to the Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine. But I don’t want them to do things like create cybernetic chimeric super-soldiers, that then become a plague upon the planet, or super-weapons that are used to kill or destroy others so they can get control. And so it could be used for good or incredible evil, and our problem is right now that most of the funding is toward evil. Part Two Kerry Cassidy (KC): Let’s go from exactly where you are… because you’re before the Council. They’re making a decision. BD: Right. KC: And are they conscious that you’re there? Did they invite you in? BD: Oh, they bring you right in. It’s like a courtroom, you know, so that we will understand it, of course. But what they do is they give you a surrounding that you can identify with. So for me, I was in a physical courtroom. KC: Sure. OK. KC: Right. BR: What’s the outcome of this meeting that you’ve just been describing? BD: The outcome of the meeting was a somberness, a seriousness that, if we didn’t get the message through to the people, that the planet of Earth would be annihilated, would be allowed to be annihilated. A lot of people think, for example, a lot of the space-based weapons platforms we have around the Earth -- Right? Because I worked with U.S. Space Command -- are weapons to knock out spacecraft, to knock out asteroids or meteors, to, you know, basically shield Earth against geomagnetic super-storms that may occur from Solar Mass Ejections and other things, and to control the climate. In other words, they’re trying to create a kind of, like a terrarium, of Earth so as we pass through the galactic plane… BD: And there’s all these other human beings that are actually like in the witness box, 24 of us. And they were being brought forward one at a time, and then our consciousness would be uploaded for all of those beings to actually see all our life experiences and the information on the world and so on. And you see all these images. And actually, because we were in the box, we could actually see what was being witnessed by the others. KC: OK. But you’re also being given a message to take back. BD: Right. The message to bring back is, if you want to call it, it’s almost like a Biblical message, because my calling is virtually identical to the calling of Moses, who is my ancestor, and to Elijah and Jeremiah. It’s basically: Repent. Get back connected with the creator God. Don’t set up a set of rules, i.e., stone commandments. Get people so their heart is so they don’t do things wrong because it’s written on their heart. It’s the message of “The Kingdom,” which is, in other words, for mankind to be an advanced civilization with advanced technology that doesn’t get absorbed by the technology like Ray Kurzweil and many “Luciferians” talk about, is to transcend it spiritually so that technology is our servant and not our master.


KC: Right. Except that some of those weapons are located on the Moon and aimed at Earth. BD: Right. And in fact, most of the weapons there could be aimed at Earth very easily and have been, and have been used for great evil -- just like the geotectonic weapon that triggered off the Sichuan earthquake, or the earthquake that was struck on Nagata, Japan, and broke the reactor core of the largest reactor in Japan. And it was told three days before to Ben Fulford that his finance minister, of course, had been warned that he had to pass over authority to the Rothschilds, or their banking system, or they were going to hit Nagata. And they did. BR: Yeah. BD: I mean, it just shows you that the abuse of this power is not just under circumspection of human beings. If you want to invoke the Biblical terms, if you want to call the word… angel just means, in Greek it means messenger. It means these messengers are always watching everything in the higher planes of existence. Right? And they’re here right now. KC: Absolutely. BD: They’re here in this room right now. Right? KC: I was going to say… BD: Right. They’re here in this room right now. KC: So what do they want you to tell people, you know, that has to happen now? BD: Well, it’s wrapped up in one word, and it sounds kind of trite but it’s true. It’s called Repent. OK? KC: Mm hm. BD: And it says in the Book of Malachi, which is one of the last books of the Old Testament, it says: Repent before the great and terrible day. And what it’s really saying is: Reconnect with the Creator God, become a Child of God, take your scepter. And we have authority. You’re no longer just a little bug down here, a worm on the planet Earth and a small dwarf, yellow dwarf star. You are the Voice in this plane of existence of the Creator God. The spirit in you is not a separate spirit. It is the I AM. OK? You have the authority to create your own future. You have the authority to destroy disease and poverty, and not have pollution, and have limitless energy and information and to spread peacefully and interact with other civilizations throughout the cosmos without disrupting or destroying them, but maybe being almost like, if you want to call it, midwives to other civilizations… KC: Absolutely. BD: …that will then advance to the level where they’ll understand and come out of the Petri dish and the crib of civilization and become another advanced culture themselves. BR: I’d like to add an anecdote to this, which you may have heard, and I’ve also said before on another interview but it’s worth repeating. Bill Birnes, the editor of UFO Magazine was privileged to talk with Admiral George Hoover of the office of Naval Intelligence before he died. BD: Right. BR: And he asked Admiral George Hoover: What’s all this big secrecy about? What’s the real deal? What’s really going on here? BD: Right. BR: Because, what’s the big deal about Roswell and little guys from wherever they’re from or whenever they’re from? Why can’t we tell the people this? And the long story is that, according to George Hoover, the biggest secret that the people must not realize, it’s not this data about the technology or the visitors, or the existence of the visitors. It’s our own power. This is the biggest secret. BD: It’s our own power. Exactly. BR: It’s our own power that we must not realize, because the greatest secret is who we are, what we can do, what we can be, and they’ve got to keep us in our box. Otherwise, their game is over. BD: Right. In other words, the comment made by Yeshua Ha'Mashiach Jesus is: Surely you know you are gods. And they misinterpret the word. In other words, you don’t replace the Creator God of the universe; it means you’re an extension of it. KC: Sure. BD: And you’re only an extension of it when you hear. The Hebrew word is shemah, hear and do. In other words, the problem I see right now is that we have a society that thinks, by external rules and controls, we can create this Luciferian world of order in chaos, so they can create a world of “peace” which is totally an ordered world that is completely under, if you want it call it, you know, scientific control. It’s a scientifically-controlled society, not ruled by spirit. The very nature of what we are, though, is a spirit being passing through a matrix of energy that creates worlds. We are literally creating our own timeline in our name. BR: Yes. BD: And the thing is, corporately we are creating our own timeline in our name. That’s why, for example, I tell people on the show repeatedly: Don’t drink the Kool-aid of fear.


KC: Mm hm. BD: Because fear itself creates, if you want to call it, a backburner or an atmosphere that allows them to create the web of destruction that occurs next. BR: Yes. BD: In other words, they can think themselves into bombs going off in cities. They can think themselves into a release of plague. They can think themselves into a grand depression, where thousands of people starve to death and start cannibalizing. They can think themselves into. . . One of the things they try to do, is that want to have this fear worship. They want to elevate you so then you become almost like another avatar, rather than, no different than, that. I’m not any different than my little daughter, or the pert little, what they call them in the military when they’re shooting ’em, “rag-heads,” over in Iraq. I am the same. I’m just another incarnation of the I AM. BR: Yep. BD: And the point has to be this: That if we don’t start getting back to that connectedness, we’ll think it’s OK to have this thermonuclear / scalar / biological warfare; it’s OK to kill most of the population of Earth; it’s OK to create a new cybernetic superarmy, and replace the military, and destroy them in fact when we release these damn things. As I say, one person said to me: If half of what you say is true, or even 10 percent, we’re in a lot of trouble. BR: Oh, we’re in big trouble! BD: I have a very special calling, not because I’m special, but because I hear and do the will. And people need to understand that. One of the things they try to do is, they’ll say, you know, ten years or a century or a thousand years from now, they’ll try to say: That guy was so special. No one can ever be like him. And what I want to tell them is I have had many opportunities to go to the dark side, and I could have been one of the greatest evildoers that ever lived on this planet. BR: And you were approached a couple of time, is that right? BD: Numerous times. BR: Numerous times. BD: One of the most serious was 16 years ago, where I was sleeping in my home. I was actually back from working in Georgia at a burn unit and trauma unit, and having a practice there, and I had come back for family reasons to Infield, Nova Scotia. And I was sleeping in a different part of the house because I was snoring. So I woke up in the middle of the night, bolt upright, and I sat up. And I had all the lights on because I’d have to periodically go to the restroom or whatever. I had all the lights on. And this guy was standing in front of me with what I call a $5,000 tuxedo, not a gray hair in his head, mid-50s, slim and trim. I said: How did you get in here? And he says: It’s wonderful . I said: You’re not my father. to see you, my son

And I looked at this guy, and he looked like French nobility. Right? And I said: Who are you? He says: I am the Baron Guy de Rothschild, the Pindar. And I had this really kind of, what I call a check or a kind of a cringe in my spirit. And I knew right away, because I have this gift. Right? Without getting into a big long discussion, I knew right away. I said: I know who you are. You’re the representative of the Luciferic power that controls Earth. He says: Yes, I am the CEO of Earth, Inc., and I am the man that sits in the 13th chair of the Druidic Council. I want you to be my understudy, and when I transcend I want you to take over my job. And I said: No, I’m not going to. He said: We know your bloodlines; we know your genetics; we know everything about you and you’re a perfect replacement for me. And I said: No! And after I rejected it, he said: I’m going to kill you for writing these two books, which I received supernaturally facedown on the concrete, you know, about six years before, which no one knew about because it was in my study. KC: What do you mean, you “received supernaturally facedown on the concrete”? What do you mean by that? BD: Basically I was “out,” if you want to call it, and I was told to write these books, and I wrote them down, which I released back in 1999 with a group called The Prophecy Club. And he said: And I’m going to touch your baby daughter’s heart. I said: I don’t have a daughter, and my wife’s not pregnant. And he started laughing. And I thought he rebuked me because I serve the God of the Universe, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. And you could see his countenance change. He got really nasty looking. And then all of a sudden, literally – four feet -- as far as you’re away from me, in broad daylight, he just “poof” and disappeared, like in a vortex.


And I went upstairs shaking, and I could hardly talk, you know. I told my wife what happened. So the next morning I went to my office to do a pregnancy test, and of course she was pregnant. And like six weeks later we’re sitting in the ultrasound room. During medical school I had worked with Dr. McMillan and I actually did some of the background research on ultrasound before any of the doctors in North America actually had it for analysis, so I could read ultrasounds. So I’m sitting in the ultrasound room and the tech’s moving over my wife’s abdomen. And as she scans over the abdomen, the technician, you could tell… Her lips dried right up, and she had this kind of stark look on her face. And I knew right away. I could see nuchal thickening and the center of my daughter’s heart was stopped. BR: Wow. KC: Is this the young girl we just met? BD: Right. Now you’ve got to understand that some of the things that’ve happened to me are so remarkable that they just, you know… She was born through C-section. I was told supernaturally, I had visitations that told me that she wasn’t going to die, even though the surgeons said: We don’t know why she’s even born alive. Because her heart was… Literally the center of her heart was gone. She had almost a single chamber heart. Right? Which is a miracle. And they did the first surgery at six and a half months. By the way, we’re pro-life. We knew that she was going to be born with Downs Syndrome, and of course we hoped that it was going to be somehow miraculously healed. But I was told, basically, don’t be fearful, that she’s going to survive, and she’s going to have this surgery. She had her first surgery. She had already lost four ounces from her birth weight by the time she had her first surgery. And then at two and a half years, her heart started to enlarge again. It was now the size of an adult heart and she was about to die. So we had oxygen tanks, you know, oxygen pumps concentrating oxygenated air and it had a 60-foot long tube going to her bedroom with a little mask before her surgery. And so I had a. . . because I have visitations all the time. They told me: This is the words the surgeon will say to you, that I don’t know what I did, but I put in only four sutures, and her heart was miraculously healed. There’s not even just a grade-one mitral valve defect. They didn’t have to replace the heart valves. But literally, with the Dacron grafts that he had done earlier, and with just a few sutures, she’s healed. She never even had to be on a heart drug, never been in a hospital, hasn’t even ever had a cold, which is amazing for Downs Syndrome. Right? But the key issue to me… And I think that I was permitted to go through these experiences - this is one of the many ones - is to understand the issue of the sacredness of all human life, whether it’s the disabled, the elderly, people of different faiths, skin colors, intellectual powers, whatever, that we’re all in a sense the continuous incarnation of the Creator God, which is the message of The Kingdom that Yeshua Jesus was trying to give. The other experience I want to share is back in… October 10th of 1993, I was face-down praying and I was brought supernaturally by, if you want to call it, the term, archangel, which is one of the senior messengers. I was brought by this archangel, and he announced his name. He said he name was Gabriel. Right? And the word Gabriel means one who has a message from the voice of the Most High God. Gabriel means one who can speak for God. Right? That’s what it means. And he brought me to an underground facility. He brought me to some satellite facility. And we didn’t just walk around and he kind of said: This is that, and this is what’s been happening. He actually explained the technology to me in great detail. We spent, if you want to call it in the spirit realm, I spent hours and hours and hours with him. And I said: Well, where am I? And he wouldn’t tell me. He said: You’re gonna know because you’re gonna go to the place where this pastor is. And I thought it was Dallas. Right? So I called up. No, no he’s already left here. He’s gone to Colorado Springs. It was a pastor by the name of Pastor Doug Sheets. So my wife called, and she checked with a placement agency. She said: Well, there’s no jobs available in Colorado Springs. So three weeks later, she got prompted to go and start calling around. And the second hospital she called, she talked to a lady by the name of Joyce Wolf, who is the head of CCom. Oh, we need an Op-Med doctor. Your husband does occupational and environmental medicine? He has a background in…? And, you know, I was a charter member of Greenpeace, and had a background in toxicology and chemistry and biochemistry. Oh good, we’ll fly you up this weekend. And four days later I had the job. KC: Hm. BD: July 10th of the next summer, which was July 10th of 1994, I walked through the same facilities underground and the same satellite-based engineering stations and classified projects as I had with the angel. KC: OK. BD: OK? That’s just one of hundreds of experiences. OK? So people need to know that we are being watched. The reason why the Earth is not an engulfed mass of biological weapons release, even though we had 347 accidents just last year in Class Four


installations. That’s not even Fed-Ex Couriers. We have no idea how many times we’ve been saved from cataclysm. BR: Yep. BD: We have no idea. The number of interventions is just… I say making angels gray-haired. [laughs] BR: Yeah. BD: And if you want to call ’em ETs, angels or whatever you want to do, but we are being watched and we’re being watched over very, very diligently because it’s such a desperately late time. BR: But these guys… Are you saying that they’re not going to step in forever, or there’s certain things they can’t do? BD: No, they can step in only if there’s a transformation of the heart. You see, it’s not going to be space-based technology to knock out, you know, to shield the Earth from the collapse of the magnetosphere. It’s not going to be space-based particle weapons that can hit an incoming meteor. Or a solar storm. It’s going to be a change in the heart of mankind that we will not harm any other race. We’ll not invade a country, like what we’ve done in Iraq and kill 1.5 million Iraqis. We will not put poison in vaccines and call it fine. We will not go to third-world countries like Poland two months ago and do tests on Polish vagrants and kill them. There were 300 tests and 23 died within minutes, and 200 more were very seriously sickened. And they’ve now imported to America 500 million doses of the Sanofi Pasteur Vaccine made on contract for Homeland Security. Now it’s not to scare people. It’s to make them understand that the reality that I try to present on the show is both the technical, scientific, public information, you know, in the public domain, as well as classified. But you’ll see an overall picture. But then on this other side there’s the spiritual dimension to that. And they have to understand that, whether there’s. . . I get people all the time: Should I leave North America? Should I leave America? I say: No, now is the time for us to confront this because you can’t go far enough away. And they say: Well, what do you mean? How far? And I say: Well, Mars isn’t far enough away for these guys. KC: Right. BD: I say: You have to understand… And he has this real serious look. He says: You’re one of our guys now. So you’re gonna hear stuff, because you’re working with these guys who are working on all these weird projects. These guys are the brightest guys in engineering, cybernetics, physics, space-based weapons, everything. And you’re going to get exposed to things. And so you won’t hear it from somebody else, so I’m going to tell you right now. We control every cubic centimeter of space between here and Mars. And I said: What? I said: You mean between here and the Moon. He said: No. Mars. We’ve had a colony on Mars since the early 1980s, and we found evidence of previous civilizations of human life on there going back a long time. We’ve had an entire city on the Moon for mining operations for Helium-3. We have entire fleets of space-based vehicles, and we have more advanced sub- and above-light vehicles that are interstellar. OK? You need to know that. Even though we have entire rings of space-based platforms around Earth, we have collaboration with advanced civilizations. And if you don’t know this stuff, you might as well know it now. And if you have questions about anything, ask me, because otherwise, if you’re not in the loop, you’re gonna freak out. KC: OK. When was this? What year? BD: July 10, 1994. OK? BR: Yep. All of this corrob… all of this is. . . Let me start that sentence again. Nothing we know contradicts anything that you have just said. The information that we’ve got from other sources completely supports everything you say. BD: Right. BR: This is just testimony for the people watching this. BD: Right. I know, and I’m saying this straight out. BR: This is the way it is. BD: Yeah. Now you’ve got to understand that the number of convergences… When I traveled around to The Prophecy Club, to 42 cities in Israel, and I tell my story, people said 100 You know, one of the talks that I had back in July of 1994 was, of course… The Senior Commander of the US Space Command comes up and he’s a very sharp, “this is the way it is” kind of guy. He says: Docs, I come to Jesus- talk you. And I thought: Oh, oh, what’s he going to say to us?


individuals couldn’t have been in all those places, but I was supernaturally told, just like I was told to call you guys. KC: Mm hm. BD: I was the exit examining doctor for the Special-Op forensic team that came back from the Murrah Building in ’95, and my boss, Major George Schwinder, was not available because he was getting extra air time at Fort Hood, Texas. So all five Special-Op agents, I had to examine ’em. One of the five broke down and told me in great detail how they removed two unexploded fourth-generation U.S. Army Corp Engineer micro-nukes, thermate, RDX, and high explosive cores, and the buildings were brought down by the FBI and ATF. I kept that information hidden. And as I was driving down the street in Littleton, Colorado -- because I had my practice in downtown Denver, and I was living in Littleton and down on the Highlands Ranch. KC: And this was after… BD: This was after. This was back in 2003. I’m driving down the road, and because I do have this gift, literally I hear the voice of God, just like Moses. KC: Right. BD: You know, what it talks about in the Bible? I’m the bloodline descendent. OK? God said: Turn on the radio. And I turn it on. And he said: Turn to this channel. And I do and I’m hearing this guy talk about financial things. I say: Oh, that’s boring. Why am I listening to this? And then all of a sudden. . . Don’t turn it off. And then a guy comes on and it’s Alex Jones. And Alex comes on and he starts talking about this New World Order stuff, and I got this real kind of pinge in my spirit because I’d kept this information hidden since ’95 to 2003. I said: I’m going to release this information. So I called into the show a couple of times and I told them I have information about Oklahoma City. And the guy who asked me to do a really extensive interview was a Pastor Butch Paugh on Genesis Network. Well, after that, the network called me back and said: We want you to do the show. So in February of 2004 I started doing a radio show on Genesis. Now, before that, I had done a kind of, like an entertainment show, called Laughter is the Best Medicine on Clear Channel. So I’d go there on Wednesday nights with Mark Alan Curry. We used to have a fun time going down to the Clear Channel studios in Denver and just crack jokes back and forth and talk about wellness and toxicology and environmental medicine, and antiaging and things like that. I was the doctor for the Englewood Fire Department and the ladder truck that was actually there on the scene, including a number of the other people there, so I know exactly what happened. It was a complete government op at Columbine. I was the doctor for the first kid shot in Columbine. And I had one pediatric patient, and he had only started working there, going to school, because he had a special-ed need -- Mark Taylor -- three weeks before. Right? And when he came out of hospital after two 14-hour procedures and 57 units of blood, his mother asked me to put my hands on him and pray for him. And I have an intuitive gift of discernment that’s very unique. So I put my hands on him. And I knew right away. I said: You have an abscess in your chest that they missed, and I’m going to put you on a specific antibiotic and in three days to the hour you’re going to call me in pain and I’m going to put you in hospital and drain it. And to the hour he called me. OK?I put him in the hospital and I told the radiologist, I said: Now, when you go and do the CT scan, put this catheter into the abscess. He said: Well how do you know that? I said: Well, when you do the CT you’re going to see the abscess. Put the catheter in, drain it, and call a thoracic surgeon. OK? So he did and he said: How did you know that? And I said: It’s a long story. OK? So don’t get… [Bill laughs] Three weeks later he’s walking around with a PCA pump getting fentanyl. So he can press the pump every so many minutes and the pump will then remember so he can’t press it too many times, and he gets a little burst of fentanyl. And he’s in agony. And this abscess is about the size of a fist, and the thoracic surgeon’s itching. He says: OK, well, we’re going to have to cut this out, because if we don’t the abscess will expand or it’ll go septic and he’ll die. So I told Mark. He’s 16-and-a-half; he’s not really bright; his mother is kind of emotionally a basket case, and he said: Well. I want… They were, you know, they were “believers,” you know, Christians. They don’t believe in miracles. They don’t believe that we have the authority to take authority over reality, whether it’s our physical bodies or whatever. So I said: Look Mark, I’m going to pray for you. I said: And tomorrow morning instead of you going in for surgery, you’re going to walk out of here. And at first he looked at me like: Whoa, that’s a pretty bold thing to say. Well, since that time… You really need to understand… I’ve been in so many places… at the wrong place at the wrong time. [laughs]


So I stayed up all night and I prayed for him. Next morning I came in about 7:15 and I just put my hand on him and said: God, you saved this kid from seven bullets to the chest. Right? And one to the arm and leg. (And the bullets actually went behind his heart and in front of the aorta. One hit the T-9 vertebra and knocked a fragment off.) And this is the way I talked to God, I said: You’re going to heal him immediately and you’re going to transform his body so he’ll be a witness, because you didn’t allow him to survive this without being able to tell the truth of what happened in Columbine. So I put my hand on him. It was like holding a high-tension power line. All of a sudden it just felt like this energy [makes sizzling noise] coming right through me. And I could see literally with the mind’s eye, if you want to call it, The Creator. I could see right down to his cells, and everything, and it was gone. I said: Mark, get your clothes ready. We’re walking out of here. BR: Wow! Yeah. BD: And I walked up to the front desk to the nurse and I said: He’s not going to surgery for a 7-hour procedure to cut out four ribs and take out this abscess. He’s coming home. She looked at me like: Oh-oh, this guy’s a nut case. How can we get psychiatry down here? Right? I said: No. Repeat the CT scan. It’s gone. So they repeated the CT scan and an hour-and-a-half later, he was hopping and skipping out of the hospital. BR: Fabulous. KC: Now isn’t info about this on the web, about this boy and his mother in regard to you? BD: Oh, what happened is they get involved with... The mother has a problem; she’s a manic depressive. And they offered all kinds of big movie scripts and money and everything and Mark actually… Right now I just got a contact from her doctor just last week because I’m trying to help the doctor. He called me all the way from Iowa, saying: Please, you’re one of the few people that care for Mark. And I still do, and I care for his mom, too. But they said a lot of nasty things because they got involved with some pastors, and they got a big possibility of a movie contract. And what was happening is I was working and my wife was working on collecting a ton of information, because we were going to private showings of videotape that the public didn’t see. I got a chance to interview and talk to almost every other child that survived the Columbine shooting. So there were many of the kids that actually died of SWAT Team bullets. There were at least, probably, we think up to 4 kids that may have died from SWAT Team bullets, from the forensics. And Mark literally stayed and lived with us for almost a yearand-a-half. He went to vacation with us, even to Las Vegas. Right? Even when they asked me to go up in January of 2000 to speak at the Full Gospel Fellowship, I paid my own ticket. We didn’t ask for anything. So what happened is, the mother had been contacted by a big movie company, wanting to turn this into a Columbine movie, and they got real angry that we wouldn’t just hand everything over or do things their way. I said: No, no, we’re not going to turn this into a sideshow here. This is real serious; we had this kid survive; we had this miraculous thing happen; we don’t want this to turn into a sideshow. And that’s where the negativity started. BR: Yeah. BD: But it’s really unfortunate that happened, because Mark is still, you know, he’s very sick right now. He’s been in and out of a psychiatric facility. KC: Mm. BD: His doctor, one of his doctors, in Iowa contacted me: What can we do to try to help him? I said: Well, you know he needs serious help. But a lot of the time they give these young people drugs that I think are patently toxic. KC: Yes. BD: We know for example, when you give somebody that’s manic depressive, SS or I drugs like Luvoc, Prozac, etc., they go over the deep end. Unfortunately, his doctors gave him the wrong drugs. KC: OK. BD: OK? These drugs came out of Hoffmann-LaRoche. They came out of mind control projects in the Soviet Union and Germany going right back to I.G. Farben. They get right back to G proteins. And he had a real bad reaction from whatever they gave him. BR: Yes. Now if I can steer this back now… KC: Yes. BR: Because that was a beautiful story and it’s great to have that on record, but how you were in the right place at the right time so many times that most people would never believe it. But backed up from that you’ve been in the right place at the right time for a reason here and that is to give what you would probably call your testimony. BD: Well, I’m a witness. I’m almost like Daniel in the lion’s den. I’ve been in places that most people can’t even imagine.


Like in 1977 I was supposed to do research on MS [multiple sclerosis] at the Santa Monica VA Hospital, part of UCLA. And one of the projects was to work on a Ph.D. neurology residency under Dr. Wallace Tourtellotte. And the other four projects were all classified. Four of them were actually cybernetic projects. One was actually a helmet that would convert thoughts directly to on-flight commands directly to a supercomputer that they already had with command, or symbols, that would be projected onto the canopy of the jet so you could fly the jet by thoughts, fire off ordnances. And the other three projects were to take prisoners from West Orange and Irvine State Penitentiaries and wet-wire their brains with platinum and palladium micro-wires. And Dr. Tourtellotte had a custom-made CT implanter that was used with a CT scan that could implant micro-wires in specific nuclei in the brain to actually use supercomputers -- that were classified -- to convert neural-net stochastic firing sequences so they’d get particular images. So you could control their behavior, see what they see, hear what they hear. And I turned it down. I said: No. You people are crazy! KC: OK, to turn them into Manchurian Candidates. BD: Yeah, they actually had a thing called the “Rambo-chip,” that they had back in the ’60s and this is part of Delgado’s research at Yale. They had a thing called the Rambo-chip and what the Rambo-chip was, was a rage-control chip that was in the subthalamic nucleus that could actually control rage. You flip the switch and they would kill, and you would turn it off and they’d stop. So this was one of the things the residents would laugh at: Ha, ha, ha. We can do this stuff. But I think that’s pretty ghoulish. And people don’t understand that a lot of the people that they give these projects have 180-plus IQs, but they’re twisted. OK? Or if they’re not, they’re compromised. And if they eventually discover it and they try to pull back, they do things like “patch” them. You ever heard of what a patch is? KC: I’m not sure. BD: OK. A patch is where they give you an intravenous patch. The patch lasts three days. OK? Or a transdermal patch. And if you don’t get the next patch in three days you die a horrific death. BR: Mm hm. KC: Right, but people. . . BD: OK? So they’ve got you on a short string. BD: In other words, the two are mutually exclusive. BR: Gotcha. OK. Now, some of this is on record on the Granada Forum Lecture and a lot of people watching this will already be familiar with that material. BD: Right. KC: But to get back to what the role is of Israel. BD: The role of Israel is a timepiece. It’s actually a detonator. It’s a transformative event. It’s like the ultimate, if you want to call it, death trap for civilization. And it’s really pretty simple. Think of it this way: If the Creator of the universe made a people, or a group of people, you could call it a mixed group of people, the ancient tribes of Israel, as an object-lesson to the world, a scapegoat in a sense, a way of explaining to people: If you try to follow The Law you get condemned and destroyed. OK? And what would happen is that… The original books of the Bible spoke about a God you could not see that was the Creator that created you in his image. OK? And, even if they didn’t understand it, they tried to adhere to it. They kept every jot and tittle. Right? And so the “People of the Book,” which is what they used to be called -- they weren’t called the Jews or the Israelites -- they had to be wiped out because they would tell people. Even if they went off and they went through a reformation or they learned from other religious groups, whether it’s Buddhists, or Hopi, or natives, they’d eventually start getting beyond religion. As I said in my talk on The Granada Forum, ten thousand years from now will there be anything called “religion”? Of course not. It won’t exist because we’ll have a full knowledge of the Creator Gods and what they are. Because we can’t exist and transcend beyond the technology unless we do that. We won’t survive. BR: We’re nearly two years further on from there. Where are we now? What does this mean for the human race and for the individuals watching this now? BD: Well the timeline to watch for is actually the nation of Israel. OK? And the timeline to watch is… And that’s why my calling is particularly important, because I’m going to re-release my book, Clay and Iron, here sometime in the not too distant future. Right? KC: OK. BD: Yeah. So if you look at the nation of Israel, there’s so much contradiction. All the stuff with Iran is all over Israel. OK? BR: Yes. BD: Even American foreign policy. The reason why they went into Iraq was Israel. A trillion dollars spent, the collapse of the economy -- it’s all tied back to Israel. OK? And people say: Well, why is Israel so important? Why was there a first holocaust? Why is there planning to be a second?”


So what’s happened? For example, I’ve had on my show numerous times, Barry Chamish. A good example is, the nation of Israel arose, and the holocaust… The greatest lies in modern history have been about the holocaust. Yes, they killed almost 7 million Jews. Yes they killed probably, of others, up to maybe 23 million. But the real goal was not only a ritual sacrifice to the transdimensional demonic realm. Right? But the real goal transcends that. It was to wipe out the idea of a Creator God and that we’re an incarnation of the Creator. Because eventually if the reformation and all these other things were to continue to proceed… Since the breakup of the control of the Roman Catholic Church, and all the spinoffs and everybody trying to get into the New Age, and all the other religious things, where there’s a return to spirituality… The big move right now is not toward religion, it’s toward spirituality, whether they’re coming from a Christian viewpoint, a Jewish viewpoint, a Buddhist viewpoint. And they’re all starting to kind of compare notes and realize that, even though they use different terms, they’re starting to understand there’s a commonality there. KC: Sure. BR: Yep. BD: Right. KC: But still, to steer you back. So the role of Israel at this time… BD: Well, the role of Israel is primarily to act on the, if you want to call it, on the Luciferian serpentine side, is to act as a detonator for the final annihilation of mankind. BR: So, in practical terms… BD: They use it as a final focal point. KC: You mean they’re going to attack Iran, and in return… BD: Yeah, or the threat of an attack will set in motion the peace treaty that’ll partition the State of Israel. Just think of it this way.Logically, if you’re from another world and you were to see a nation that’s the size of, you know, a little tiny strip of land anywhere from 10 to 16 miles long -- the third nuclear power... Probably the most advanced in terms of biological weapons on the planet is the State of Israel. KC: Yes. BD: They’re number one. KC: OK. BR: OK. BD: Those people run the world. BD: They have their own space-based imaging systems, ImageSat. They’ve got all kinds of weapons, when they were KC: Led by the Pope. Right? kind of on the outs, that they developed with the South Africans. They even, a lot of the time, buy their own jets and just stack ’em right up. They have the number one air force on the planet in terms of rapid response, and killing capacity. Number one, not number two or three. What happens is, you divide that nation and they have no boundary zone where they can protect themselves. And the only thing they can do is to pull a “Samson Option” and hit a button. They have space-base platforms. Because Israel has them. Israel has space-based weapons platforms, imaging systems, terrible stuff. They could wipe out every city within 10,000 miles of them. They can just “bam.” They’re gone. OK? BR: But they. . . KC: What is the plan? BD: The plan is. . . It’s all being set up because, you see, the leaders of Israel are Satanic Luciferian. The entire State of Israel was set up, as Barry Chamish has said, so they could cleanse themselves of any who is a “Torah Jew,” anyone who understands the nature of the Creator God. Even if they didn’t understand the depths of it, they didn’t want anybody to understand that they were created in the image of a God and they’re a spirit having a physical existence on this plane of existence. They wanted to then replace them with a Luciferic idea, an agnostic idea, a communist idea. So the State of Israel was originally sponsored with the Soviet, the actual Communist Soviet. OK? BR: Mm hm. BD: And the idea was to create an agnostic Luciferian society where they follow the highest tenants of Babylonian Kabbalah, which means that they themselves are Gods. OK? In other words, they replaced God because therefore they are the energetic intelligent force that’s willing to use good or evil, following this Shabbatai Tzvi, you know the false anti-Messiah, 1666, and Jacob Frank, to actually create a world order where “these Luciferic cabalists would control the world.” And that’s what happening now. You can see it with the financial system. You can see it with the political system. You can see it with everything, that these Luciferic Satanists… The two groups at the very top are Teutonic Knights, who think they’re bloodline descendants through Yeshua Ha'Mashiach Jesus and King David. That’s one group, which are all the Royals of Europe. And the other group are the Sabbatian Luciferic Satanists -- Satanic Jews.


BD: Led by the Pope and the Black Pope and the Knights of Malta, and they’re totally controlling it. And they’re interacting at such a level that they literally have physical presence of these demonic reptilian beings right even in the Vatican… BR: Yep. BD: Right in, you know, and people need to understand. When you get these deepest underground bases… I had one Canadian engineer who actually controls and engineers and takes care of the Aurora Space Fleet, that fly out of our underground bases in central Germany and the Black Forest and fly to our Moon bases and on to Mars. And he’s terrified to come on the show. And I’ve been talking to him for the last couple of years. But he’s showed me enough technical information and facts and sent me stuff that I know that his story is real. Right? So I’m going to repeat it. After 10 months of psychological testing, they finally said: Well, now you’re in the deepest of the D.U.M.B One Bases and we’re going to bring you down to the final level. And he gets down there and all of these beings are right there in the flesh. OK? BR: Mm hm. BD: Just like out of Star Wars. OK? It’s really crazy, but he says it’s real. And I said: Why won’t you come on and tell us? Because, he said, I don’t want to shatter people’s religious beliefs. And I said: Well, I do want to shatter them, because it’s a sacred cow, and in fact their religion, whether they’re this group of Christians, or this group of Jews, or this group of Buddhists, they’re all wrong. They’re all wrong. In other words, I call it [religion] “real lies going on.” It doesn’t mean you throw out the baby with the bathwater, like Bill Marr in his movie that’s coming out this week called Religious, you know, when he says anybody who’s religious is a fool; they’re an idiot… KC: Mm hm. BD: …because of all the foolishness that religions are doing – like, I call them the “Armageddonites” -- that are supposedly Christians that believe that they have to bathe the world in blood and fire. KC: Right. BD: Or the Sabbatians who think: Well, we’ll just pull the Samson Option and go down to our underground bases. Because they have a ton of ’em down there. BR: Hm. You cannot divide the land of the State of Israel. You have to have an inclusive government that can include Arabs, and Christians, and Jews, and people from Baha’i or whatever. KC: And Palestinians. And they need to grasp that what we’re heading for here is, unless they take up the scepter of what they are and the power that they have to decide for life -- just like Moses when he took the six tribes in Mount Ibal and Mount Garizin and put between [them] an amount of cursings and an amount of blessings and he said: Today, choose life. In other words, you’re not taking away their choice. You’re saying: You need to grow up and you need to stop talking about easy-be-livism, prosperity gospel, all this other foolishness, and you need to start talking about relating to other humans. You can’t fund a country on a credit note to go and kill a million and a half Iraqis. You cannot decide to invade Iran, when we know that they hit the Bashear reactor and 450 targets. I’ve got my military contacts inside there, and experts have told me in the last 4 to 6 weeks, that it’ll kill between 1-1/2 to 15 million in the first two weeks, and it could be as high as 32 billion plus. And the radiation cloud will go downwind and will move directly through Yemen, all the way through to Saudi Arabia, and heading down toward China and Japan. BR: And that’s after an Israeli strike? Or the Americans? BD: Right. Well, what happens is, if they start it, the Americans are already pre-positioned there. So the thing is, what this will do… KC: Well, how can this be prevented? BD: It can be prevented… Well the first thing that they’re going to do is, they’re gonna try to bring us to the brink of destruction, and then set up their peace treaty to divide the land. And what happens is… Olmert has already promised that he’s going to let this go through within twelve months of him leaving, before they could have a transition to the next Prime Minister, which means we’ve a time window, probably 11 months now, where they’re going to actually put in the final treaty to divide the city of Jerusalem and divide the State of Israel. That’s setting the detonator. You can’t do that. If you do that, you guarantee a thermonuclear war or a chemical / biological / scalar war that’s going to end civilization on this planet. BD: Or the Illuminists who think: Well, who cares if we blow up the world? We’ll just go to our underground bases and we’ll survive and then we’ll come back up in a decade or century. Like the Morlocks, you know, of H.G. Wells’ Time Machine. And it’s insanity. Because they’re not going to survive what’s going to come. They’re not going to survive it. OK?


BD: And Palestinians. And you have to not make them feel like third-world citizens or that if they intermarry, or if they evangelize they’re going to end up in jail or whatever. In other words, you have to have dialogue between people and not have apartheid, which is what they have there. BR: I haven’t understood you there, personally. If you’re saying that the State of Israel becomes divided, what’s the connection between that and the inevitability of a huge war? BD: Because Israel will be pushed to the point, when the conflict reaches its culmination, that it will start the trigger for a thermonuclear conflict. BR: Between who? BD: Between all of these great nations. It’s a bipolar world. We have right now the western alliance of the Illuminati with, you know, Britain and America and all of their allies. And on the other side we have the Shanghai Cooperation nucleus: Russia and China and all their sphere of influence. So it’s not a unipolar world; it’s a bipolar world. BR: Mm hm. BD: A very, very high risk of that. OK? BD: OK? And people need to know this. One of the things that happened back in the spring of 1999, I was taken supernaturally, actually through the ground, and saw the geological formations and the oil at the southwest end of the Dead Sea. And there’s a lot of oil there -- 27.2 trillion barrels -- and it’s renewable. OK? KC: Wow. BD: And it’s from the fault line that runs all the way from Turkey right through Kenya to Lake Victoria. OK? And the Dead Sea itself was created when the oil came up. The magma… Actually from the oil field, it mainly hit along that fault line when the Earth shifted back at the time of Abraham. It actually hit that fault line and caused an explosion equal to 500,000 Nagasakis. BR: Mm. KC: So you’re here in Oceanside, California. Right? BD: The guy who told me that was the head of the Israeli Oil Company - okay? - who discovered all the oil fields in Zohar, all the oil fields down in the Sinai Peninsula. KC: They’re actually not using that oil. Right? BD: Afterwards, I was asked to go over there when I gave some of my presentations on that radio show with Stan Johnson, by Hayseed Stevens, and the Israeli Oil Company, and Ariel Sharon. I was actually asked to go over to Israel and say a prayer at the southwest end of the Dead Sea, at the bottom of Masada, which I did on Rosh Hashanah right at sundown, and blow the shofar, and actually say this Hebrew prayer. BD: Because I was told to be here. KC: And why? Could you… BD: I know partially why. The way it happened was back in February my wife, who is very intuitive too, she told me, she says: Bill, we’re supposed to move. I said: Well I don’t want to move. I’m comfortable. See, I didn’t really want to move from Denver to go back home but I was with my mom before she died in October a year ago. And so I went to sleep that night and I said: God, tell me why. KC: That’s right. BR: We’ve been told this independently. BD: Right. So people need to know that, you know, things that happen on the spiritual level also descend and have effects on the energetic and the physical level. And as we get into wrong timelines and make wrong decisions corporately, we move along those timelines toward things that can be very destructive. So what I tell people right now is, it’s not the time to flee, but there’s going to be incredible pain because they’re moving toward the Amero. I have already talked to people who are very reliable they have already seen the Amero notes in Mexico City. And it’s also tied to other events happening around 2012. Because as we pass through the center-point of the galactic plane, there’s a great danger that we’re going to have geomagnetic collapse of the magnetic field around the Earth. We’re also going to have very, very high risk in the next several years of major Solar Mass Ejections that trigger off super-earthquakes and super-tsunamis. BR: Mm. And I did that. And I warned them. I said: Now, I’m a prophet and I’m telling you, if you try to expose to the world that this oil is here, you’re going to precipitate an immediate war. You’re going to have millions of people coming in here. Because there’s more oil there than the whole world put together. Right? KC: OK, but you’re exposing that right now. BD: I’m exposing that now because it has to be exposed. KC: OK. BD: It’s the time now to expose it. Because what’s going on now is… Basically there’s a number of things in motion now that… Probably in less than a year they’re going to sign the final treaty. If they sign that treaty…


And he did. He sent me an angel who told me: You’re going to go to Oceanside-Vista. I said: I don’t want to go there. I don’t even know anybody there. There’s not even any jobs there or anything that I want to do there. Right? And he started laughing at me. Right? And cracking jokes, because… People need to know that they’re watching us and they know the future that we don’t know. Right? And a lot of times we probably wouldn’t do things we have to do, because some of the stuff we have to do is pretty painful and messy. BR: So what’s going down that brings you here? BD: Well, part of it is being here now so you could even do this taping. BR: OK. BD: Because there’s people here that have to wake up. They’re going to have to hear this message to know that I’m called, what’s actually called, “The Sons and Daughters of the Most High God.” I’m one called “The Witnesses.” Now, I’m going to back this up a bit so you’ll get an understanding of just how important this meeting is tonight. In the first century, my family were in this 24-family cycle of the Cohanim (also spelled Kohanim) that actually served in the temple at the time of Yeshua. And a prophecy was given directly by Emmanuel, directly to my ancestor, that was written down in the first century and passed on all the way through to my Greatuncle Michael, who died in the ’70s. That was supposed to be given to me ,because I was the eldest of the eldest. His brother thought he was the one called to give this word, which is to blow the trumpet of Elijah and actually tell people about the coming of the new age, the new world that was going to come, a world of peace, where there wouldn’t be lack or all these things. And that was passed down for almost 19 centuries. Right? That person is me. OK? And the reason why I know that is because at 8-1/2 when I had my tonsil surgery done… I had a French surgeon who was operating on me in Colchester County Hospital. They cut an artery in my neck and I bled to death. OK? There’s a little guillotine-style thing, and they pull the tonsils through with tongs, cut it off. And I had an aberrant artery and I bled to death. And I went down the tunnel of light. And of course, the way it happened is, all of a sudden I’m floating over the operating room table, I’m looking down, I can see this little boy, and I see blood spurting everywhere. I say: Gee, that looks like me. I didn’t feel any pain. And all of a sudden I’m standing there and I’m walking around, trying to talk to the nurses and doctors and nobody would pay attention to me. So I’m getting very frustrated. So I walk toward the door and I just went right through it. So I turned right and I walked down the hall, and I saw the nursery, and I saw these babies all bound up tight on their side, and the nurses were trying to keep them, you know, because if one starts, they all start to cry. And they all had little different colored blankets on them. So one baby started to cry and they all started to cry. And all of a sudden everything started to fade into an inky black, a black so black you could feel it, and I felt like I was being squenched through a pinhole. Right? And then all of a sudden I cried out, you know: God, where am I? Something terrible’s happening. Right? And I saw a pinpoint of light and all of a sudden there was these intersecting crimson lines, and I’m going down this tunnel, and I say: It’s too fast, God! It’s too fast. And then all of a sudden I’m in this place of light, and across in the other side of this space there’s a man standing there, you know, almost glowing light. And he had a broad golden sash with a double-corded belt, and what I call brass-like sandals. And his forehead almost looked like there were puncture marks, and it was still swollen, and you could see where his beard was plucked out. He had reddish hair just like a... The best way to describe him would be a Norwegian, only he had olive-colored skin. He looked like a big, you know, rock-hard kinda 3-percent body mass, kind of a carpenter with big hands and big knuckles. And he looked like a guy that could, you know, make anything. Right? Only there was a… they fell to the middle part of his arm and leg. And as he appeared, there was a big chasm that appeared in these clouds. There was all light all around. And I saw this little wooden bridge. And he said: Don’t cross the wooden bridge or the silver cord will break. And I said: What’s that? And he says: I will bring it into your remembrance. Because, in other words, you know everything, you just have to remember it. I remember going down the tunnel of light. I can remember this cord that seemed to come out from the base of my brain and my throat and it went down. It was like a cord of water. He called it “the cord of living waters.” It looked like a neon cord that kind of scintillated with light. Right? And he said: If you go, you won’t be able to return. I said: Where am I? And he said: You’re at the gates of paradise or heaven, the eternal NOW where there is no past, no present or future but everything that you think immediately is. Right?


So I said: Well, can you show me? So all of a sudden he’s holding me by his right hand, and I’m flying over the Golden City and I can see everything. And I would say, because there’s no time and space, he showed me worlds, beings, planets, civilizations, that I’m going to talk about a little bit today. But literally the amount of things he showed me about the universe… The universe is an elemental particle in a larger universe. He told me about time-space. He told me about quantum physics. He told me everything. That’s why I was about to go into nuclear physics at MIT. OK? BR: Yep. BD: He showed me beings that later on in life I’d say: Oh, I saw that in Star Wars. OK? Because these things did exist. I saw them, and I was there, to their worlds. I can’t tell you how long it was, but in lineal time it had to be many centuries that I spent there. It wasn’t a matter of a few minutes, like some people who have these near death experiences. I was there for an indeterminate period of time. It was so long, you know, and the amount of… and I only talk about a very tiny portion of what I know because it’s so beyond the pale of human understanding, of civilizations and worlds and things that people cannot even grasp, so I don’t talk about it. So all of a sudden… KC: OK, so you went to this place… BC: So after… I’m back. And all of a sudden he’s back on his side and now I’m back on my side and I’m thinking: OK. After this indeterminate time I’m back on my side and I say: Look… And then he spoke to me telepathically; he didn’t have to speak. And he said: Well, what is your decision? And I said: I want to do the right thing. And I said: Well, if I’m going to go back, what am I to do? And all of a sudden he’s holding me with his hand again, and I’m giddy. We must be 400 miles above the Earth and I look down. This time he had on a thing, a tallit, and I didn’t know what a tallit was because I was raised a little Roman Catholic boy. Right? So I saw this tallit and it was splattered with blood on it, this tallit, which is a prayer shawl. And I looked down over the Earth and I could see the edge of the horizon shimmering out across the dark of space. And he said: Behold my blue jewel, the Earth. Right? BR: OK. And I said: It’s alive! He said: Yes! You know. Right?In other words, the Earth is a living thing. Right? BD: And how that is handled determines whether or not our civilization moves forward. If you look at America right now, the trillion dollar debt of these wars, in the last years since 911. What I’ve presenting is that this is the transition point from “the past, which is religion,” which is based on ignorance. You know, like the Buddhists try to say -- a lot of people say I’m a Buddhist, but I’m not -- is that all pain and suffering is due to ignorance. The real problem is that, in a future where we have a total understanding of ourselves and the nature of the universe, there’s not even room for religion because religion is like recipe cards. It’s irrelevant. It’s like: This is my past history; these are my recipe cards. It’s dogma. It’s replacing the ever-present knowledge of what is right or wrong. Because you don’t need to be told. Right? BR: Sure. KC: Right. But let’s get back… BD: Right. So the key to why Israel is so important is because Israel is an object-lesson for the whole planet. Israel is, if you want to call it, purposely set up to be the nexus decision point of civilization. And I heard a voice behind me that sounded like a deep voice, one of the… what we could call “the angelic.” And he said: Behold the Voice of the Seven Thunders. So the first time he said Behold he held his hand like this [gestures] -- and I don’t know what that symbol means -- but he held his index and middle finger and pointed down toward the Earth and he said Behold. And all of a sudden I saw fireballs rising off the Earth everywhere, but particularly across continental America, a lot of them.And I thought: Oh, this is a light show. I mean, this is great, I’m a little kid here, and I’m still in my little hospital gown from having my surgery and I’m free-floating up in space and I’m looking down over, and I see all these fireballs. And then he looked back at me sternly, like: You don’t get it. Part of it is, our civilization has been conceived almost like in a spiritual womb -- Earth -- and the timeline that we are selecting corporately will decide whether or not we’re stillborn or aborted or whether our civilization will move on to join the Ben Elohim, the Council of the Eschaton, the advanced civilizations that are literally the incarnation of the Creator of the Universe, in whatever form, whether they’re human, nonhuman, or other civilizations… Because at some point we’re going to “have contact.” Well, how do we have contact?


The people who put the bombs in the building were under orders from Project Omega, which is, you know, the overseeing agency of all the secret agencies on the planet. BR: Run by the Vatican. BD: The ones who put the bombs in the buildings were contract. They could have been any secret agency but they happened to be very experienced Israeli Mossad nuclear agents who put the nuclear bombs in the World Trade Center. OK? Now they do that because they want to have a hatred of Jewish people. And I’m not an anti-Semite -- I have Jewish blood, Iranian blood, Armenian blood, etcetera, so I have… KC: Why would the Mossad want hatred of Jewish people? BD: It’s part of their dialectic of control. BR: Mm hm. BD: Just like the death of millions of Jews in the Second World War was actually at the hands of not only the Sabbatians who want to cleanse the whole, if you want to call it, the whole people of Israel of anyone who “had any religious Torah belief in a Creator God.” So they had an anti-messiah, an anti-God, a weare-God. The real purpose of the Kabbalah, if you want -- the highest level, which is the highest level of all Masonry, is Kabbalah. Right? -is that we are… The revelation is: You are the Luciferic-Satanic power. You don’t need to go to a higher God; you are god. BR: OK. Now… BD: Which is very different, right? BR: If this all about Israel being an example, right in center stage for everyone to look at and everyone to learn from, with all kinds of things at stake, what can the ordinary person do to influence these choreographed events? The people watching this, who are even very aware, very well informed, some of them the most aware, most informed people around, they’ll be saying: Well what can I do? This is already set in train. BD: Well, the real issue… It comes down to one real simple thing. It comes down to: What are they going to do personally to come out of religion? OK? Religion is the toxic poison of the modern world. And people say: Well, you’re talking in terms of spirituality like a prophet, like Israel. But people, understand, Yeshua himself, Jesus was not religious. BR: Mm hm. Of course. BD: He was a spiritual leader. OK? KC: Yes. BR: OK. And any of the great leaders, even if they only had a tiny portion of that, tried to teach similar pieces of it, you know, whether you’re talking about the prophets or people who are spiritual leaders of the native peoples, or in China or elsewhere, they’re talking about… They all basically had a portion of that truth. The greatest portion that was ever released was the fullness of the Father in the Flesh, Yeshua Ha'Mashiach Jesus, which is why the whole of the Old Testament and New all point back toward him, because he was a great teacher. Now what’s happening in our world right now, is that everything happening in our world -- financial collapse, control matrix, technologies -- everything is all centered around Israel. Everything. OK? In fact, the two great empires of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization and the Western Empire are all meeting there, and the goal of the Teutonic Knights, which are the Knights of Malta, is to have a great temple there where they can set up their world government from their temple. Weird, hey? But it’s happening because it’s happening in the spiritual realm above, and as above/below, and it’s also descending and happening on the physical realm. Because we have to answer this question correctly, which is: To transcend technology, we need to transcend religion to a spiritual relationship. And we need to understand that when God is speaking, whether it’s through the ancient peoples of Israel, or the Hopi Indians or whatever, he’s speaking to them, and they only have their portion. They have to understand God is speaking in a language of history, a language to their spirits, a language of knowing things. Or, if they do not transcend spiritually, they’re going to die together. KC: So what these people can do that are listening to this is basically reconnect with the Creator. BD: And also stop buying into the Armageddon Night idea; we’re going to have a rapture; we have to be bathed with fire; the Luciferic idea, somehow that I can decide what is good or evil. That is the foolishness of the “super-scientist,” the technician, the Illuminati, the people in these Black-Op projects that think that they can decide for the rest of the planet. Surely we’re deciding as we’re building underground bases so we’ll survive as we go into the galactic plane. They’re not going to survive, because I can guarantee you that the Council will not allow them to survive, no matter what they do, if there’s not a transition of their heart. BD: He was leading people away from religion to relationship. OK? KC: Absolutely.


It’s the exact same message that Yeshua Ha'Mashiach Jesus gave which is: Unless your hearts are changed, your world will die. OK? KC: Yes. BR: And that’s what’s at stake right now. BD: That’s what’s at stake. We’re talking about not just the death of the person that they call “omnicide,” not just the death of the family, not just the death of the nation, not just the death of mankind or every living thing, but the death of the spiritual entities that are incarnated into the beings here on this world. It’s literally a spiritual abortion that’s being done on the planet, and if you see the transdimensionals, the Satanic/Luciferic transdimensionals, they have harassed, and intervened, and abducted. And people say: Well, why does the abductions phenomenon seem so malicious? It’s because they’re demonic. I mean, you might not use the term demonic from the Bible, but in every culture you’ll find these things going on. And they’re intensifying, including you know… Not only are our vehicles up there, like the TR3 which are these giant triangles, and the Aurora and other ones, but there’s a ton of these other vehicles because they’re here watching, for the show. They’re here for the show. They’re here in the birthing room waiting to see if there’s going to be a delivery or an abortion of the planet. OK? That’s what’s going on. OK? KC: Yes. BD: And they need to grasp that it’s not going to happen by a change in politics, or a president, or monetary policy. It’s going to happen with a change of the heart. For example, let me give you one example of solution. Why do we have a world that can allow usury, which is interest? Why do we allow derivatives? Why do we allow a group of people who can control and manipulate money that causes starvation, where 60% of the cost of food is due to manipulation? And then they make bad policies suppressing energy technology, so that people literally can’t truck the food in third-world countries, so they can’t make themselves independent, and they starve to death? Or in places like North Korea, we demonize people so that they then literally exhume their own dead and eat them, which is what they’ve had to do. OK? And people do not know the depths of how far this is going to go unless there’s a transformation of the heart. It has to happen immediately. And I’m called as a Witness of Ephraim, and I’m called up today to be a Witness of Yehuda. OK? There’s a very tiny fraction of real Torah Jews who understand what’s going on, and there are some there who are Rabbis who know what’s going on and are fearful because they see the coming second holocaust. And I went through Yad V’Shem. And it’s not just the holocaust of the death of the last of the Jews. It’s the death of all humanity that’s coming. And then they’re conspiring this through their transdimensionals, the serpentine, these civilizations out there that are hell-bent on destroying mankind. They’re conspiring with these world leaders, who are literally their minions -- George Bush Sr., and George Soros, and the Blackstone Group, and all those other organizations are just their minions. And many of them think: Oh, I’m going to get life extension technology. I’m going to survive whatever’s coming. I’m going to get a 50,000-acre farm in Paraguay. Lies! Or: I’m going to survive in these underground places. When they’re hit with a force 11 or 12 earthquake that will shatter all their tunnels, no they’re not. They’re going to be entombed into those places. BR: It’s a good message to give the guys from the Black-Ops who will be watching this. BD: Right. They need to understand that I walk. They can’t stop me. I can instantly walk into spirit, into any of their places without any way of stopping me. OK? BR: Mm. BD: We are The Sons of the Most High God. It’s not just me -it’s all of us -- and Daughters of the Most High God. We need to start taking our authority back, because agnosticism, atheism is just another form of Luciferianism. It is “I am God; I can decide what’s good or evil.” And we need to get away from all religions, and enter back into spirituality with the Creator. We need to fall down on our face and say: Yes, I am here because I signed up for this. BR: Now, here’s a question. This will probably be watched by a few tens of thousands of people. BD: Right. BR: A few tens of thousands of wonderful people, and every single one of those people is critically important here. BD: Right. The Jews now… and the Jewish people are by and large mostly agnostic, or what I call… They belong to synagogues that are basically either spiritually dead because they don’t connect with the true reality of this.


BR: Is that enough? It’s a tiny fraction of humanity. BD: Yeah. The real issue, and it’s almost exactly like the message that was given by Yeshua, Jesus. His message… He had a message that was given to the general… Just like when I do my regular radio show, I talk about: Hey! Don’t vaccinate your child, because these vaccines have been determined by globalists that want to poison your children with vaccines, and I show them the technical truth. But it’s harder for them to accept the fact that the vaccines, like in sub-Saharan Africa, have plasmids to destroy and cause infertility. Or the Guardisil vaccine now. I got contacted by Desiree Rover just Friday night. She has a radio show in the Netherlands. She used my material and many others to kind of reference in her radio show to tell people: Hey, this is a policy by globalists to sterilize little girls and destroy their health. Right? And they’re testing vaccines on populations that have no idea of what they’re signing up for. And some of them get multiple vaccines and they’re malnourished and it destroys their health and kills them. Many of them die. KC: Yes. BD: It’s very hard for them to conceive that and then to go to the next stage. If they listen to all my shows and they listen to this message… I released three chapters of the scroll, and there’s twelve chapters altogether. The first chapter I released in 1999, which was a warning against America, which I delivered to 42 cities in Israel. The second chapter of the scroll I released in 2005 at Pastor Butch Paugh’s Conference. And the third chapter of the scroll, which was tied to my talk at Conspiracy-Con 2008, I released this May. I didn’t get a chance to read the scroll but if you go to ClayandIron.com you can pull up those PowerPoints and those scrolls. And I’m going to have that, as well as what’s called the “Prayer of the Twelve Stones.” People need to grasp this in their spirit. It needs to ring the bell, just like when you go to a Buddhist temple and you can feel the vibration of the truth. It’s something spoken truthful. What we’re speaking tonight is not just wisdom and not just knowledge. It’s what I call spirit words. It’s words that need to ring their spirit no matter what religious background or lack of it, to know how desperately bad the times are. We’re not just looking at a depression here. We’re looking at the prelude to a financial collapse that’s a prelude to a false peace treaty that is the startup of a guaranteed thermonuclear, biological, chemical and scalar war that will destroy all life on this planet. BR: And what’s the time scale? What would the time scale be for this? BD: I don’t have all the answers at this point in time. BR: Sure. Give your best guess. BD: But I can give you some of the signs. The first thing. . . The signs basically are this: When they divide the city of Jerusalem, they -- Jewish Rabbis, and this is Rabbinical Law -- have to have all the elements, the Kalal, the Ashes of the Red Heifer. They have to have the Cohanim, and all the instruments. They can set up a tabernacle overnight. They have everything, Sea Cows, and curtains and everything. They can put it on the Temple Mount in one evening. OK? But once they start that sacrifice, which has to happen on the Feast of David, that starts the final clock ticking. That clock will start on that day. And exactly 1230 days later is the Feast of Purim, which goes back to hamen. And people say: Well, why would these things be encoded? Like the Bible coded in the Bible? It’s because you’re hearing Voice and Intentions from the highest Creator of the universe that’s speaking down through the higher dimensional planes to our world that imprints on a supernatural book that transcends time and space, which is in the Bible. That’s why the Bible code’s there. People say: Well, why are those things there? It’s there because it transcends the dimensional planes of time-space because it’s beyond time-space. BR: Yes. But the Illuminati know all this. They’ve already got this. BD: Well, they’re trying to steer the timeline away from its intention. Because the future is not solid -- it’s liquid. BR: Sure. BD: We have a role to play here. And when I was brought to the Council, they were saying, you know, you need to take this seriously. It’s not written. It’s not determined at this point in existence, or revelation of the spirit, what will be that pathway, whether we will go into a birthing room and have a wonderful delivery of mankind, or whether we will have an annihilation of the human race. Or something in between, where a great deal of destruction occurs and a tiny remnant survives. KC: So why are you here in Oceanside, for example? BD: I don’t completely know. I know one of the purposes is to be here.


And there’s a lot of high-level Masons say: Well, I haven’t even heard of that. Because they think they’re the ascended ones. They have no idea what they’re serving. BR: Hm. BD: They have no idea. They need to repent right now. And, as I say, if we can pray -- and this is something we have to do. And the most powerful thing we have is, I call it fore-give. The word foregive means to create. To foregive means we need to pray for George Soros, who is behind the Blackstone Group and 911, and the current derivatives crises that’s bringing the world down to a world and regional banks, and trade zones that are going to cause the death of millions and set the groundwork afoot for a pandemic. Part Three Bill Deagle (BD): The key idea is this: You need to have a doing in the spirit before you have a knowing. In other words, you need to contact the Higher Self to say why... I’m a human-being not a human-doing. In other words, you need to be where you’re supposed to be. You need to be in the position where you’re supposed to be, and then the things just unfold. Bill Ryan (BR): Yes. BD: And this is why all these things have happened to me. And people say it’s impossible that all these things could happen to one person. I say: Well, it happens because I hear and do. Literally. As you know, the sister of Moses went before the council of the people back in the ancient times and said, you know: Are we an ear, and not only prophets? And the voice of god spoke through the pillar of fire and said: There is not a man on Earth, hand to hand, eye to eye, mouth to mouth, who does not speak as another man speaks to his brother. That’s the kind of relationship I have with God. I literally can talk and hear him instantly, [snaps fingers] like that. Kerry Cassidy (KC): Mm hm. BD: But people need to know I’m not any better than anyone else, but I am... If you knew my whole history, you’d say: Why is this man called to do this? I’m called to do this because I’ve seen the face of evil. I’ve seen it not only in myself, I’ve seen it in others. I have chosen light, not to be a follower of darkness. I’ve had numerous opportunities. I’ve had an opportunity to become a Breve Brother, a Knight of Malta, as early as this year, earlier this year. I’ve had all kinds of threats. I’ve had the Pindar come directly to me to say, you know, to be his replacement as the CEO of Earth, Inc. and the Druidic Council. Because when starvation occurs, the population gets weakened, and it’s the perfect groundwork, or cover, for a pandemic which they’ve already weaponized. BR: Has that already been released? Or not released? BD: There are several avenues by which it can happen. Back in… How long ago is it now? Gee… back in about 1995 I was praying and I was told by the angel that I was supposed to go to Europe. And I said: Well, where? And the Lord said: You’re going to go to Zurich. And I said: Well, I don’t know anybody in Zurich. So I had some friends that were Canadians, that actually were in Halifax, Nova Scotia, at the time and they had gone back to Austria, to Lake Constance. And I said: Well, I’ll contact them… the Santoses. I said, you know: You guys know Zurich? [They said]: Oh, yeah. We lived there are awhile and we love it. So I started going through and googling, you know, checking out things, trying to find out which organization. The Lord said: You’re supposed to contact these people here at Human Life International. So I speak to God, literally, and he tells me. So I contact them. I call this guy and he calls me back from Zurich. And in a very German accent he says: Wonderful! We’d love to have you come over and speak to our board. So we arranged tickets. We go and visit our friends in Austria, and we go over to Zurich. And I told them what I was told, you know -- literally told -- to tell them about was the cybernetic super-soldier program, human genetic engineering, and the chimeric monstrosities they’re making in underground facilities. And to speak against abortion and euthanasia, and selective abortions which are... 93% of the abortions on Earth are female. BR: Hm. BD: OK? And so, after 2-1/2 hours of me speaking to a board of scientists -- giant boardroom, you know, 24 doctors and scientists, whatever, the International Board of HLI -- they said: Now you sit down, doctor. We give you things.


And they went into another room and brought this stack, about a foot of documents. I said: Well, what is this? They said: You stay here. And they gave me some more water and whatever, and they lectured to me for two hours. And they had documents there of the weaponization of the avian flu, smuggled out of the World Health Organization in Basel. Actual documents. OK? That they had got gene bioengines, and they had actually resurrected the corpses of people that died of the H1N1 back in 1918, that they were paid for by the Rothschilds… All this stuff! I’m totally in shock! I mean, these guys are telling me this stuff. I’m thinking: Why am I in Zurich? And after they finished that, which was about 6 inches, then they gave me documents, that they had these plasmid vaccines that were injected every month. And they were drawing blood from women in sub-Saharan Africa, testing to see if they create antibodies against human chorionic gonadotropin to sterilize them. And I had another 4 inches of documents that showed that AIDS was completely weaponized by cross-genetically engineering the Visna virus with other viruses. They gave me the actual documents! So I’m sitting there kind of freaked out, you know, wondering... And of course we went to dinner afterward with these doctors. And they said: Now you bring all this – I brought it all back with me, of course -- to North America. But the thing is, back in… You see how God puts me in all these positions. Back in 1974 I had finished a year of medical school and someone tried to recruit me from a U.S. government agency to take a year off medical school and go to Uganda for a special virus project. Because I had worked… Before I went into medicine, I was working on my honors degree and I finished my Ph.D. research project in 5 months, although I didn’t write the thesis, for Dr. Robert Brown, who was one of the doctors working on the T-virus project in Bethesda. So I was already a bio-weaponeer. OK? KC: Mm hm. BR: And you turned that down? BD: I turned it down. I told them there was no way I was going to do it. But I had recalled this from ’74 to 1997 when they gave me all those documents, and here it was... I was also the whistle-blower that blew the whistle that the Factor-8 that was used for hemophiliacs... I was the main whistleblower for the Canadian government and those lawsuits that got all those doctors, that they were getting it and combining all these Factor-8s… Because I had a pile of hemophiliacs when I was practicing in Calgary that were dying of AIDS, specifically because they gave them purposely-contaminated Factor-8. BD: That’s very disturbing. OK? But we’re talking about going up to 70%, which means next year we have a very grave possibility of a thermonuclear attack at least on the Bashear reactor and 450 targets. And a counter-response which is going to release a radiation cloud and cut off the world to the Strait of Hormuz. And I was taken in 1988 -- one of my very first visions -- I was taken up high above Saudi Arabia, in the spirit, and I actually looked down. And I looked and I could see the carrier groups all assembling. And this was 1988, twenty years ago. And I looked down, and the angel told me, he says: Watch this place. Because this is where it will all start -- the Strait of Hormuz. BR: Yes. BD: OK? And all these things, all my experiences from my life, were laid out so that I would be what I am now, a beaten piece of steel like a Samurai sword… KC: Hm. BD: …hardened enough for the truth and willing to tell the people the truth, to tell people that you need to make the right decisions. You cannot believe your pastor, your rabbi, your Buddhist master, your ascended masters, your ET contactees. You need to contact your Self, the spirit of the Most High God. You need to analyze what’s going on in foreign policy and money. For example, money, as Socrates says, only means exchange. Why are we willing to do spending cuts that will starve people? Why are we going to bail-out 700-billion dollars to banksters that are gambling on the future, that’re going to guarantee that we’re going to have a crash and the death of civilization? BR: Hm. BD: Why? And they know that starvation leads to war, pestilence, and the crash of civilization. And it’s very fragile. And they’re purposely bringing this about. This is the start... This phase right now, with the collapse of the banks, this is the start toward world government, world bank, regional currencies, chipping the population. And they’re ready, probably by next year. I’ve already calculated, and have been told by my sources, both natural and classified, as well as supernatural, there’s about a 30% chance of an avian pandemic this year, and a 70% chance next year, and 100% chance the year after. BR: When you say this year, you mean in the next 12 months? BD: No, between now and the end of December [2008]. BR: Really? OK.


BR: And how close are we to that now? BD: We are so close we can feel the breath of the dragon. People need to pull back… And none of these people that call themselves candidates for president that are in the two leading parties are safe. Neither one. Obama is backed by Zbigniew Brzezinski, that wrote The Grand Chessboard, that was the head of the Security Council, that was one of the CFR members in Georgetown University. He is personally determined to directly confront, with thermonuclear and other weapons, Russia. OK? BR: Yes. Yep. BD: We have Joe Biden, who released this information just in the last two weeks. This guy is very clever but very evil. And he’s directly involved with the cover-up of the Israeli Purdue OxyContin scam, where there’s a Purdue Pharma plant in Israel distributing billions of dollars of illegal OxyContin in America. And we have the proof of it. OK? This is not conjecture. BR: Yep. BD: Then we’ve got McCain, who spent 5-1/2 years under the control of a Russian mind-control scientist, the top Russian mindcontrol scientist. And I heard him on the debate. And actually I think he won the debate against Obama, because Obama, if he’s not reading a teleprompter, is not that smart. McCain was sharper and he showed more presidential… But McCain is determined that he’s going to invade -- as well as Obama -- he’s going to invade Pakistan and get to the Waziristani nukes. He’s going to expand NATO directly on the back doorstep of the Russians. It’s going to piss off the Russians. And the Russians have got some very, very nasty weapons. BR: Yes, and they’re pissed off already. BR: With what consequences? BD: They’re very pissed off, and they personally don’t want to do this. They’d much rather negotiate and get richer. Right? BR: Sure. BD: The Russians are not interested in this. But the people behind the American government, the Satanic Luciferian Reptilians, they’re absolutely determined to bring this agenda toward a final culmination, a thermonuclear war. OK? They’re determined to do it. KC: That’s with Russia. BD: And they’re pulling Russia… As it says in Ezekiel 38 and 39: I shall pull you with hooks in your jaw. Oh Rosh, chief prince Gog of Meshech, Tubal and Rosh. And you know what that is? Gog is the name of a Hebrew man. Rosh: Russia. Meshech: Moscow. Tubal: Tublosk. This is Russia. They’ve armed to the teeth all these nations. BD: Well, President Palin doesn’t, I don’t think, has the... To me she’s pro-life which is positive for a lot of Christian rights. [Ed. Note: the political right] She’s going to drag a lot of votes that way. But in terms of her ability to have a rational judgment, with the extreme religious background that she has, is going to be very disturbing. Now, I’m for the pro-life issue and I’m for the fact she’s got spirituality. But when you have religion and it’s clouded that Israel can do no wrong? That’s frickin’ dangerous. BR: Yes. She says that Iraq is God’s war. BD: Right. And that’s really dangerous. And you can’t say Israel can do no wrong when the whole nation of Israel is Sabbatian Luciferian Satanist Jews. OK? Who do not worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and have nothing to do with she thinks… And they laugh at her and think that this Christian fool is going to back us no matter what, and allow us to attack Iran. They’ve got the S-300 anti-aircraft system; they’ve got the Yakontz hypersonic cruise missile; they’ve got EMP weapons; and they’ve armed to the teeth Syria and Iran; and they are building the largest outside-of-Russia naval base right now in Syria. BR: Yes. And they’re poking the Bear with a sharp stick. BD: They’re poking the Bear with a sharp stick. So, what we’ve got to do is, people need to get in a panic here. It’s not a matter of voting for Palin and McCain, or voting for Obama. Either alternative guarantees a thermonuclear war. BR: Yeah. Is this election going to happen to schedule, or could something happen to it? BD: It really doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter. Even if it’s delayed 6 months, you know, it doesn’t matter if McCain gets in there and Palin. The thing that I’m particularly concerned about is… Someone like McCain, if he lives long enough, which I’m very concerned about, because he’s had a third recurrence of a melanoma. He’s had a lymphatic spread. And I know a lot of… I do consulting, helping people integrate with treatments for cancer all around the world. Unless he’s getting some of the new classified anti-cancer therapies with some of the people that I know in Europe or elsewhere -- like Dr. Tulio Simoncini and Dr. Munoz in Tijuana, and other places, where you get IPT and so on -- he’s a dead man. This cancer or another cancer is going to come back and kill him, and he’ll probably die in his term. And we’re not talking about a 30% chance. We’re probably talking 80% chance in the first two years of his term, if he does become president, that President Palin will take over.


BR: Yeah. And she’s playing straight into their hands. BD: Right. She’s playing right into their hands. And, of course, they’re using her as a card to manipulate. And on the other hand, we’ve got Obama and there’s a trail of strange things going on behind him. KC: And you know this because... KC: OK. But actually people are left with that choice. BD: I’ve got so many contacts you would not believe it. I can’t... I’ve spent a lot of time on the... Obama is a, if you want to call it, messianic figure. KC: Mm hm. BD: This is a very dangerous man. In fact, of all of the options we have, Obama is the most dangerous of all of them. BR: OK. So that’s the most-worst version. BD: He’s the most-worst version. Even Biden would be better. Biden might actually have a clue, even though he’s a bit of a criminal. BR: Yeah. KC: But our understanding is that Biden probably won’t make it to the… BR: Is it possible that Hillary could be back on the ticket? BD: It’s possible. It’s possible. BR: Have you heard that? KC: Sure. BD: The thing is that Hillary, other than Obama, is the most scary individual I’ve ever met. She is very brilliant, incredibly evil, and her family, the Rodhams, have been Luciferian Satanists for hundreds, if not thousands, of years. She has a lot of stuff attached to her. BR: So what’s the way out of all that crap? BD: The way out of it is to just get the population woke up, to pray for the leaders, to get the people woke up. If we just get a tiny minority of the body of mankind to wake up to the truth of this… Whether they think they’re atheists or agnostics or Jews or Christians, they’ve got to stop being Armageddonites. They’ve got to stop being Sabbatian Jews. They’ve got to stop being “religious”, thinking: Oh well, it’s just karma being worked out, in their Buddhism. Right? They’ve got to stop all that foolishness and pick up their septre and say: We craft the future. We’re going to determine whether or not mankind is going to survive what’s coming. And they’ve got to start making decisions. BD: They don’t want to make the tough choices to say: Hey, I’m not going to participate with what they’re planning on doing. I’m going to make certain that I’m not going to vote. I’ll give you an example. What happens if nobody went out to vote? What if everybody said: Hey, we know both these guys, either party, is going to support the 700-billion dollar bailout. Because, you know, in the next two weeks, long before the election, they’re going to sign this damn thing. And if they sign it, they guarantee the -- you could call it the controlled demolition of the economy of the world, and the de-evolution to the “mark of the beast,” which is coming. You know? I’ve walked personally through the array, and either party is going to guarantee that. Now, whether it’s Obama and his messianic vision, or it’s McCain and Sarah Palin with her Armageddonite vision, it doesn’t matter. The devil will move forward like a snake pushing itself on its own belly. KC: OK. We’ve also gotten information about October [2008]. And I’m sure you’ve heard Half Past Human. BD: It’s not even at the capitol building of the state. It’s not even at the town council. It’s in us. We have to decide that we’re no longer going to participate in these things. We’re not going to participate in churches or pastors or politicians doing these things. We’re not going to participate in a financial collapse that’s going to starve millions, and start a pandemic. We’re not going to participate in doing those things that… KC: OK. Well, but nuts and bolts and on a spiritual level, their choice is clear, I would say. BD: Yeah. But they have to make hard decisions. See, those decisions are so hard that most people don’t want to swallow that. So they want to either attack me or any other messenger giving this message. BD: They aren’t. They can actually… The thing is that I think we need to transcend politics. We need to transcend religion. We need to stop thinking that if we make the right decision on the right leader we’ve solved the problem. The transformation is not at the leadership level of the White House. KC: Absolutely. They’ve got to start saying: Hey, we’re not going to participate with a country that’s going to have a thermonuclear war with Iran. We’re not going to… You know, as Carlin said: If you vote for one of these blankeyblank guys or this blankey-blank guy, you can’t complain when either one of them starts a thermonuclear war.


BD: Yes, I can tell you what... Yeah. BR: We have thirteen different, actually fourteen now, different data-points, lined up in October… BD: Yeah. Well, you’re correct. Somewhere between the 7th and 15th of October. And I get the same feeling. BR: Right. BD: I’ve got the long and short list. BD: A lot of the time I don’t know... Like I’ll go to bed at night, wake up in cold sweats, get visions… KC: Yes. BD: ...see, you know, people crying. I see starvation. I see privation. I see darkness, a lot of very bad visions, very jumbled up, and I can’t tell you what it is specifically. But I can tell you what makes sense to me if I just take my intellectual viewpoint. BR: Yeah. KC: I think so, too. BD: I think we’re going to have a financial crash. BR: OK. BD: I think the financial crash is going to be so severe and so painful that the grocery store shelves are going to be completely empty in the very, very near future. I mean, it could only last for maybe a few weeks, but it’s going to frighten people so badly, that no matter what the government presents to them -- in terms of world government, regional currency, the Amero, whatever -they’re going to take it. And then, when they can go back to buying their latte, and go to the movie theater, and put gas in their car at a reasonable price, they’re going to say: Thank God we’ve got this. KC: Right. BD: But I can tell you right now, what I see is empty shelves. BR: And martial law. BD: And martial law. Remember now, martial law will be almost like a theater. It’ll be on... They brought back an entire division. I posted up the article on Clay and Iron, and the dates. So if you go to ClayandIron.com, I posted up that article. They brought an entire division back to America to be permanently stationed for civil defense inside the United States. That’s 650,000 battle-hardened troops, with heavy artillery and weapons, that’ll control the civilian population. They don’t need to be in their home country. The media that’s on that screen there [television], I call Satanvision. OK? In that box. What they need to do is they need to frighten people into accepting whatever the agenda is. BD: Chicago, Detroit, all those three cities are on both long and short lists. OK? BR: It feels to us that there is a violent event coming up. BD: Yes, there is a very violent event coming up. And I see a financial collapse, and I see, at the very latest by next year, a thermonuclear explosion in a U.S. city, one or more cities, and civil war in America. OK? And then a period of false peace after that. And a period of, you know, them setting up this temple thing and kind of scaring the crap out of the population of the planet. BR: Yep. BD: And then I see this time period of 1230, literally marked off. Because, remember now, this is a religious ceremony. You see, the Bible isn’t just a thing for the Jews or for the Christians. It’s a Luciferic ceremony. BR: Yeah. BD: And they’re marching through this as a clock, as an antitype to what they see happening. So that the globalists and the Illuminati use this almost as a religious ceremony to kind of snub the face of the Creator of the universe. And say: No, we’re God. So that’s why this timepiece is being marched on in Israel. BR: Hm. BD: OK? And when people grasp that… The reason why I’m going calling you up today is because I don’t know who he’s, but there is another witness. OK? He’s the Witness of Yehudah, the witness of Judah. He’s a Torah Jew who does know this. BR: Yeah. BD: On both the long and the short list -- and I happen to be living very near to one of those. The very top of both lists is Los Angeles. KC: Yes. BD: They’re number one. BR: Yep. BD: So they need a thing like the Katrina thing in one or another city or two or three cities. Maybe they need an event like… They’ve been working on this idea of blowing up dirty bombs or nukes in two or three cities. BR: If…


And the greatest prophecy that was ever given by Yeshua Ha’Masaich was The Prodigal Son, that the Ephraim, which is the 10 tribes, would be hauled away, scattered over the Earth by the Assyrians, and that they would return, and they would bring on their shoulders, literally the ability to know how to protect the Jews on Earth. Because the holocaust is coming, Jews. You’ve got to know that there is a holocaust coming to kill every Jew on Earth, Sabbatian or not. And the reason is they have to expunge the Earth of any knowledge of a Creator God. It doesn’t matter if you’re a Buddhist, or you’re a native Hopi or whatever. They’ve got to get rid of them because there’s a portion of truth that was given specifically by the Creator to the Jews that other peoples did not receive in fullness. Just like there’s a Bible code in the Bible. Why is that code in the Bible? Why is it not in some Hopi things, or some tablets from some other civilization? It was there because it was set up as an object-lesson to ask of the entirety of mankind: How will you deal with Israel? How do you deal with it? As it says in Jeremiah, you know: There will be a firepot burning all the nations around it. They’re literally setting a detonator to blow up the Earth. BR: Hm. BD: And they have weapons that can. They’ve got anti-matter weapons that can turn the Earth into shards, like, you know, like one of these planets that died in the ancient conflicts that they talk about, that was destroyed and created the asteroid belt between Mars and Earth. BR: Yeah. BD: OK? BR: Oh, yeah. BD: They have those weapons now. They have things that you just can’t imagine that can be done that could blow the Earth, literally, into tiny fragments. BR: Mm hm. BD: OK? But whether we’ll survive is not a geopolitical thing of who we vote for or whether or not we’re going to kind of will our minds. Like, you know, some of the people figure if we just will it, it’s all going to happen. It’s going to require some painful decisions on our part to say: Hey, we’re going to march in every city capital of every city. We’re going to march in every church to throw down their dogma -- which is their “am-god”. They’re not God. They have to hear the Voice of the Creator, whatever religion they are, whatever spirituality, whatever agnosticism. If they don’t, they’re not going to survive, because this Earth is marked I’m called to speak as Moses and as Elijah, to blow the trumpet, which I’ve done on my show. And God has given me a voice to speak to them and warn them. We are at the time of The End. And that’s why my other website’s called clay and iron. They need to know: Come out of Babylon, which means come out of confusion. Come out of religion. Come back in relationship. Stop believing lies. And the first lie is what you are. You’re not a biological machine. You’re not an advanced piece of slime that’s evolved. You’re an infinite being that has the right to choose to have life and to live it abundantly for thousands of years, literally, you know, and have contact with advanced civilizations, and to survive, and to thrive. But if you don’t choose life today… Just like Moses, when he set the peoples between Mount Ebal and Mount Gerizim, we as a civilization will die. for judgment. It’s the end of the road. And if they don’t turn back now... And that means all those ones who are called as prophets, of every race and tongue and people, you need to come out with a grand chorus and sing the song, as it says in the Bible, the Song of Moses. You need to sing the song of humanity that is a spiritual body that knows these things. We intuitively know it. When I talked to John Boncore, whose name is Splitting the Sky, who’s a Mohawk prophecy-giver -- and he said this on air just this week. He said there was a prophecy given, you know, untold centuries ago, that a great, a young Mohawk would come and give a prophetic warning to the peoples of Earth. Well, he has, better than any other person, better than Phil Berg, or anyone else that I’ve heard, put the financial trail of bloodmoney behind 911 together. People need to grasp this, that if we don’t get back in touch with spirit instead of religion, we’re going to all die, killing each other for religion. KC: Mm hm. BD: And for different financial agendas. Or we’re going to save the planet because of carbon dioxide, which is a lie. You know, we’re polluting ourselves to death, so we won’t even be able to reproduce two generations from now. And it’s all by design. It’s designed that even if we didn’t have a pestilence or nuclear war, or whatever, that life on this planet is soon going to die. We are a dying planet. If you’re visiting here as an archeologist from another distant time and another space to visit Earth, you’d say: These people are suicidal. They kill their prophets, just like it says in the Bible, you know, between the brazen laborer and the holy of holies.


BR: Now, stepping back into the Black-Ops world, you will know that we’ve been contacted by time-traveling future humans with a message. BD: Right. BR: And it’d be interesting to hear your take on this. But our understanding is that there are alternative timelines. Not all of them are catastrophic. BD: Right. BR: We do have choices. BD: Sure we do. BR: It’s not a done deal. BD: Oh, absolutely. BR: And what do you know of those contacts, those messages, and what opportunities we have, and how those messages have been acted upon by the people who’ve received them? BD: Firstly, the way I would answer that is that the universe is stranger than even they can imagine. In other words, when you’re dealing with people… Let’s say that we have posited that there are alternative timelines, and these people have traveled back from multiple timelines. If we think of the -- I call it the universe as a One-“I”-Voice, in other words, there is a unification of All-That-Is because what the universe is, is not energy portrayed through advanced equations in a cybernetic world. It is literally the passage of spirit through a montage of images. And when you start to understand that, there is only one. In other words, there is not... There are maybe multiple possible futures. . . BR: Mm hm. BD: But there is only ONE real future. BR: OK. BD: OK? BR: Right. BD: But we do have a choice because… I say we foregive. We actually are creating whichever timeline we are going get, whichever rail we are going to get on. BR: Yeah. BD: Otherwise, it would be purposeless to even have human beings because we’d just be automatons because the future is already set in stone and whatever is going to happen will happen. But our physical brain is not what we are. It’s connected through “the cord of the living waters” to our physical brain. And so, if we don’t understand what kind of a being we are, we won’t make correct decisions. So part of this idea of timelines, or even incarnation... For example if you talk to people about incarnation, they’ll say: Well, 40% of the incarnations are supposedly from the future. BR: Hm... Yes. Yes. BD: Or even nonhuman beings. OK? BR: Exactly. Yep. BR: And we aren’t. We are actually in the image of the Creator. We are actually the, if you want to call it, the incarnation of the I AM that said: Let there be light in the universe, as human beings in this world. And there’s other beings of other types that are across the cosmos that are incarnations of the same I AM. And they’ve come to the knowledge that they are and have that responsibility to be, in a sense, midwives to Earth in the birthing-room of this civilization. KC: Yes. BD: We’re literally in the birthing-room now. BR: Yes. But, what do you know, and what have you heard, of those messages from future humans who presumably are altruistically trying to help in some way? Because they’re looking back through their own history saying, you know: Don’t do that stuff because this happened to us. Or some other message. What do you know about this? BD: You have to use a great deal of discernment. Because one of the things about alternative timelines, in terms of an actual being coming back from a timeline, is you have to think: Is this inserted ideas? Because the very nature of the universe is that there is one timeline that you follow. There may be alternatives that you have a choice of. But you have to use discernment. You’ve got to remember that, in a sense, we live in a matrix. We live in a cybernetic world that, to a great extent, is the manifestation of a higher dimensional reality of being that transcends our physical body. For example, I try to tell people this repeatedly, is that your mind, i.e., which is equal to your soul, is not physical. It doesn’t exist on this plane. So when people talk about psychic phenomena and doppelgangers and other things, what they’re really referring to is something that’s just the very nature of what we are. Our physical mind doesn’t exist on this level. OK? The physical mind is just a chemical computer. It’s a bunch of neurons connected; that you’re connected to nuclei, and our eyes and our physical senses.


BR: Yep. BD: But the way I tell the people is, I say: Maybe you’re just kind of picking up, almost like a radio tuned into a certain frequency, certain object-lessons or spiritual things so that you can understand something you’re supposed to learn or remember in this lifetime. In other words, you’re not becoming... Does that make sense? BR: Mm hm. BD: So that’s why I see this as being a misinterpretation of it. OK? So this idea that there is alternative timelines, I think is a deception, a very, very significant deception. Because it says that the world is a mechanistic Cartesian world that’s created by energetics and we’re just kind of like leaves that are pushed along by energy, space, and time, and we really don’t have any choices to our future. In fact, we actually ARE the Gods of this world. But I’m not talking about replacement of the Creator God. I mean hearing the voice and doing the will. And that’s a very different thing. So, in other words, reality is created on this energetic plane by spirit. It’s not the other way around. BR: Of course. BD: And that’s the problem we’re in. So, when you hear people saying that they’ve had physical contact, the deception is very, very powerful. We’re right here now with mankind, as is said in the Eschaton that transcends time and space, to make a decision for life, whether this civilization is going to survive what’s coming or it’s going to be annihilated. And we’re very close to that, and we can see the object-lesson of Israel as the final crux. Just look at the foreign policy and look at the financial policy. Look at all of these things. The two groups that are running the world right now, that are running -- literally driving it into the ground -- are the Teutonic Knights; the Hansiatic League. Right? That believes that their bloodline is descended from Yeshua Ha’Masaich. And all the kings and queens of Europe and all the czars of Russia, the Caesars, believe their bloodline is descended from Jesus Christ and King David. Why? That’s bizarre! Why? But it’s the truth. You can talk to Jordan Maxwell and others and find it out, Michael Tsorian and others. Why? Why? Why would that be? And then the other group are the Sabbatians. Right? The Sabbatians are basically Satanists. These are, you know... Even though, you know, they’ll say: Well, we’re communists -- the Israelis -- because they had the Russians there at the inception of the Israeli state. They’re not. They believe they’re God. There is no God. BR: And anything else... It’s almost like it’s not relevant whether it’s “real” or not, because it depends on what you mean by real. BD: Right. BR: And the really, real situation is here and now. BD: Exactly. BR: And that’s the only thing that matters. BD: Yes, and also it might give you a false decision-tree to base your ideas on and therefore steer you in a direction of wasted intention. BR: I understand. BD: That’s the first thing. Wasting action. And wasted effort. For example, people think there’s going to be a difference if we elect McCain/Palin or Obama/Biden. I don’t think it makes a difference. It might make a difference if you had somebody like Cynthia McKinney or Chuck Baldwin. But how likely is it they’d be elected president? BR: Yeah. It’s not going to happen. BD: It’s not going to happen. The problem is, Cynthia McKinney is a black woman. She’s brilliant; she’s tough. She’s calling for a 911 investigation. This woman would make an absolutely amazing president. OK? But how likely is it for her to get in there? They’re trying to say, just like Bill Marr and his movie Religious. You know, obviously he’s a Kabbalist. He believes in the Kabbalah. And the highest level of the Kabbalah… If you go deep into Masonry, or entirely, you go right back to the Temple of Solomon. They’re completely... They all look Jewish, but they’re not. They’re Satanic. They go right back to Atlantis and before. BR: Hm. BD: These were adopted into it and invaded into it at the time of Solomon. That’s why they’ll say they’ll elevate Solomon, and that Solomon was a great leader. No. He allowed the body of the truth of ancient Israel to be infected by this monstrosity. BR: Mm hm. Getting back to what you were saying about the reality, or otherwise, of these alternative timelines, what I hear you saying is, it’s almost like an intellectual trick, because it doesn’t really count. BD: Right. BR: What’s in front of us is what’s in front of us, and that’s our real responsibility. BD: Right.


And the problem is they may also come with baggage, what we call environmental baggage, which is, we’ve got to reduce the world’s oxygen/carbon dioxide. That’s crazy! It’s not science. OK? I was an oceanographer. I did work with Greenpeace. Carbon dioxide is what makes the plants, including the phytoplankton in the upper 10 metres of the benthic layer of the oceans produce all the oxygen. And our oxygen level now is down from what it was in ancient Mesozoic era, from 30%, down to what it is now. So you know, I think what it is, we have to stop looking for an external messiah where all these so-called great religions... Like for example, Mr. Ahmadinejad thinks he’s going to see the Imam-Mahdi, or the Christians think they’re going to see a messiah… KC: Right. BD: …come in the clouds, you know whether... Which is ridiculous. BR: And there are a bunch of people who think the ETs will save us. BD: Right. They think the ETs... You see, this “ET save us” stuff is crazy stuff, too. BR: Right. BD: The fact is, what’s going to save us is us. You know, it’s like the inverse of Pogo’s statement there, you know: I’ve seen the enemy and the enemy is us. I’ve seen the messiah and the messiah is us. BR: Very good. BD: I hope this kind of gets people to kind of drop their old paradigms and I hope I get them to, you know, like Marshall McKluen, “tune in and drop out.” In other words, drop out of false lies, whether it’s politics or religion or thinking these other things are solutions. Become personally responsible. Become public and interact with other people. Don’t think that, by default, if you don’t say anything about it you’re not responsible for the death of 15- to 32-million Iranians and a radiation cloud that circulates the planet and destroys your own health. KC: Right. BD: The sins of omission are greater than the sins of commission. And the sins of silence are greater than the sins of action. BR: Yes. KC: Yes. I second that. And this is where we ask for everyone to take part. BR: And it’s all got something to do with you. BD: Right. Absolutely. I hope it transforms some hearts. As Yeshua Ha’Masaich Jesus said: The message of the kingdom is now, which means, it’s now, as soon as you attend to shemah, to hear and do the will of the Creator God of the universe and not to think that you can set external commandments and create peace on Earth. What you’ll do is you’ll create pieces of Earth. [laughter] BR: Is there any final sound-byte that you... Is there anything that you haven’t said that you want to leave these people with right now? Because this is the chance. BD: Well, what I would say is, firstly, prepare for a series of spasms and disasters. BR: When you say “prepare,” you mean physically and logistically prepare? BD: Spiritually prepare first. But physically prepare. Have your food and water, have your civil defense. We have a whole series of civil defense things. I’m actually working with Gordon Peterson in Homeland Security to stop aircraft bringing in pandemic viruses. Prepare to have things to protect yourself from pandemic avian flu, which we have on our website, nutrimedical.com. Prepare yourself to be home-quarantined for anywhere from six weeks to two months or more. BR: Anywhere in the world? Or here in America? BD: Anywhere. Anywhere on the planet. Be prepared for food shortages on a massive scale, starting as early as this fall. Be prepared to know how to have... in other words, I don’t tell people to join the militia. I tell people to start shooting clubs. I believe that we need to exert our Second Amendment right, not so that we can go out and start shooting fellow Americans, but we can protect ourselves if things get out of hand. I worked with federal agents at the Federal Center in Denver and they did simulations and actually were stockpiling pallets of gold bullion, gold coins, and bales of heroine to interact with gangs; so that between 4 and 12 days after a state of national civil emergency, like nuclear war, they could trade with the gangs that would control every city. BR: When was that, Bill, that you encountered that? BD: That was in 1997. BR: But that’s all still in force. BD: Oh yes, all those things. Their COG [Continuity of Government] which was set up by George Bush, Sr., made it even more serious. So that COG plan, and all those things, have been done going back, like over grades, going back since Eisenhower.


BR: OK. BD: They’ve been doing this for a long time. And it’s not just in America. You have to understand, these plans are replicated in one form or another in Canada, in Britain, in Australia, in African nations, in China. They have policies. There’s over 4,000 underground facilities around the world alone. And in America, two giant facilities besides the little ones, that are a mile-and-a-half to four miles down. I mean, they’ve been going crazy. And most of the illegal money is drug money coming from the illegal sale of heroine and cocaine, OxyContin, Ecstasy, etc., three-quarters of a trillion dollars into weird projects. BR: Yeah. BD: And again, they’re addicted to this. They’re addicted to money that isn’t under the scrutiny of the Congress or Senate. And I don’t think, if either party is elected, they’re going to steer us away from this. We have to get away from thinking the political system is going to solve this. It’s not. Or the religious, you know. A lot of people think if they just go pray a whole lot in church, whatever church they belong to? They’re crazy. BR: Yep. BD: They need to start taking action. We mean action to the street, to their neighbors and they need to say: Hey, I don’t want to participate in the winding down of civilization. BR: Yep. BD: Because they need to see that this is the first stage here. This is the devolution of the economy. And the next stage after the devolution of the economy and a release of a pandemic or martial law -- and it won’t just be in America -- is the hardchipping of the population, forced vaccination, pandemic, and the hard kill’s going to start. BR: Mm hm. BD: And I’m talking about hard kill, where they’re going to try to kill 90% of human beings on the planet with either pandemics, injected viruses, lethal weapons systems or whatever, or starvation just because of economic chaos. And people say: Oh no. They wouldn’t do that. I have contacts inside the Canadian and U.S. government that have said, if there is a total breakdown of society for 30 days, half the population in Canada and the same in the States would be dead. BR: Yep. From violence. BD: Not from a pandemic. From violence. BR: Yeah. Yep. People will do it themselves. Yeah. BD: The violence will be... Just take a city, like, let’s say you had a city like Los Angeles and you took out 20 blocks with a 10kiloton nuclear weapon, with a population kill of let’s say 200,000. And California devolved into a state where there’s no trucks going anywhere with any food. And this is a place where it’s a breadbasket. This state would be a seething caldron of death, and half the population would probably be dead within 30 days. Just because of the roving gangs shooting each other up, and trying to grab food that was left and getting trucks and whatever. KC: Right. BR: Yes. BD: It would be insane. It would make Road Warrior look like a party. And people say: Oh no, it couldn’t get that bad. I said: The guys who told me were special forces that worked at the Federal Center that told me this. And they shocked me back in ’97 when they told me this stuff. BR: Yeah. And all of this is being modeled as well. BD: Yeah. So I tell people they’ve got to start preparing for disaster. And then we’ll come back out of that. Because when they bring it out, the next thing is: Oh, that wasn’t too bad. It was only two weeks of martial law. Or six weeks. BR: Yes. That’s just to get people acclimatized to the idea. BD: Just like Katrina, you know. We let the people in Katrina now live in trailers that would ruin their health or they have homes that are still loaded with mold that are killing them. Right? Or, we let them federalize parts of the country. That’s totally against the Constitution. Right? They’re still federalizing. The city of Detroit’s federalized, the city of New Orleans. This is a violation of Federal and State law. What are they doing? They’re eventually going to federalize the whole country because they’ve been, grade by grade, running martial law and admiralty law parallel with the Constitution. And eventually they’re just going to get rid of that, in George Bush, Jr.’s terms: That GD piece of paper. They’re just going to throw it away and say: Guess what guys. We’ve got enough executive orders; we’ve got enough Blackwater Security worldwide -- which are the Rothschilds private army. Right? -- And we’re going to take you on. BR: Yep. BD: OK? So people need to grasp that. And they need to be prepared for things. And they need to be able to stand up. And if they don’t stand up, well…


BR: Is it possible that some of the “white hats” in Intel and the military will stand up themselves? BD: They are already. I’ve already got contacts who’ve told me. Like William Fallon, you know, was public. He said: Not on my watch will you start a war against Iran. They fired him. KC: Yes. BD: They put two people of Jewish descent in there that are willing to take orders, that are willing to attack Iran. BR: Sure. BD: Twice in the last year-and-a-half, these Israelis tried to go downtown. The last time was around June 24th when the American government allowed 100 Israeli jets to do air maneuvers, and a war game over Iraqi airspace. And the Russians detected it with their satellite-based imaging, and started to scramble, transfer codes -- for the launch codes -for their submarine-launched nuclear missiles, and their Bear bombers heading toward North America. People don’t know. We were moments away from a thermonuclear war in June. BR: We heard about that. BD: I mean, most people say: Oh, that doesn’t happen. You people are crazy. I say: Well, I’ve got contacts. I went back weeks later and verified it from my sources. BR: Yep. BR: Yes. We second that. BD: And so people say: Oh, that can’t happen. You’ve just got a really good imagination. I said: I wish. I mean, this is a damned nightmare. BR: Yeah. BD: And it’s really happening. But I’m brave enough to say it because I know there’s no alternative. If I don’t speak out against this… KC: Absolutely. We absolutely second that. Thank you very much. BR: Bill, thank you so much. BR: Yep. And one of the reasons why you die a spiritual death is because you never stood up when you could have done. BD: Right. The greatest sins are the sins of silence in the face of evil. You can’t move far enough away. You can’t move to the south island of New Zealand and think you’re going to be safe. Or Paraguay. There is nowhere on this planet you can move away from this without it eventually taking you if you don’t stand up to this evil. So if I have any messages: Prepare for disaster. Speak out now because you’re going to be silenced very shortly. And believe me, they won’t be able to silence your bloodcurdling screams as you’re hauled away in a Black-Op truck in the middle of the night, or a railcar with the shackles grinding into your ankles and your wrists, as you’re screaming because you know you’re going away to the death chambers. OK? This really is getting prepared. They’re getting prepared. They’ve shipped in the plastic coffins. They’ve got the railcars. They’ve got the incineration stations all ready. They’ve got everything ready. People say: Oh, it doesn’t exist. I say: Well, my condolences to you because if you want to attack me and say that I’m a crackerjack because I give all these spiritual and other things, you’re going to suffer and then you’re going to die. And you’re not just going to die a physical death, you’re going to die a spiritual death.




Project Camelot: Dr Bill Deagle - Telephone Conversation Transcript
24 September 2008
The following part conversation was recorded on 24 September, 2008. Dr Bill Deagle called us, and as we were not expecting the call we were unprepared for a recording. It is incomplete at the beginning and at the end, but this middle section is so interesting that many may like to read it. Start of Conversation Kerry Cassidy: We’re going to be speaking at NEXUS in Australia in the beginning of October and also at the Crash Retrieval Conference, covering just that sort of question. Bill Deagle: Yeah. I know it’s a broad question. K: But I have to say… I mean, what we‘re getting is very similar to what you’ve actually been talking about for the last 5-10 minutes. We are getting lots of cross-correlation, various whistleblowers in Black Ops, and also what you might term intuitives, and people coming forward from actual on-the-scene places, reporting about what’s going on with the economy. Certainly we’ve been in contact with Ben Fulford, that there was some kind of effort with the Japanese to bail out the US economy. Apparently that’s being rejected. BD: The Japanese were going to buy out a large chunk of some of these banks, Lehman and other ones. K: Right. And we do understand the whole… that, you know, it’s like a paper tiger. It’s just crashing down. BD: Well yes. It’s all by design though. K: Right. We understand that this is the Illuminati agenda. And we also understand that behind the Illuminati you’ve got, you know, a certain faction of the Anunnaki. So it goes way, way back. Bill Ryan: Yes. One of the analogies, Bill, that I use when I’m talking to people is the metaphor that you described in your Granada Forum lecture, that it’s like they’ve just piled up all the ingredients for a fire, with a little tender and the kindling and the big logs and the large logs, and all it needs is a match. And now I think they’re just about to strike the match. BD: Oh yeah. They are. In fact, it won’t take very much. It could be economic collapse and they could declare martial law. K: Yeah. We get that. BD: You’ve got around 8 billion out there under active handlers and of those 780,000 are actually for execution. BR: We suspect that there may be several events coming up in quick succession in the next three or four weeks. BD: Yeah, they could happen. Several things are going to be intervening here. People need to realize that we’re not dealing with... This is something that’s really shocking for a lot of people that think the New World Order’s run by a bunch of rich, inbred white guys from Europe. We’re dealing with transdimensional entities and beings from other worlds that even transcend the idea of the Anunnaki. They have to understand that there’s a galactic order and a cosmic order to things... of higher order beings that have been watching our world, certainly very aghast with the battlefield that’s been going on in the psychic level, the physical level, the informational level, etc. It’s been on every possible level you can imagine. And we’re caught in the clutches, literally, of being on the battle line of a great galactic and cosmic war. Literally Star Wars. K: Yes. We would agree with that. BD: That star-war has been going on for ages, with previous collapses of our civilization caused by these same creatures. What’s happening now, though, is that human beings are getting to the point where we’re almost ready to be birthed or be annihilated. And the decision is going to require a sea-change in the attitude of people, not the technology, to get us through this, but an attitude change in terms of the core connectedness of people to their Higher-order Self, if you want to call it, understanding the nature of what they are as a being, and the nature of the universe. K: Yes. That’s absolutely right. BD: And religions, which I call “real lies going on”… because the problem is, religions are a substitute for knowledge and wisdom of what’s really the nature of themselves and the nature of their universe. K: Yes. We wouldn’t argue with any of that. Basically we understand the underlying spiritual basis for what‘s going on. And I have to say that we’re also very concerned over the energy that is put out there to make something either happen or not happen. BD: Well yes, exactly. In fact, the negative energy -- and this is one of the things I’ve been concerned of lately; I talked to Jeff Rense about this just over the weekend -- is that a number of the “patriots” are putting out such a negative message they’re


actually creating, if you want to call it, an environment that will manifest it into reality. K: Exactly. BD: They’re creating what I call the Kool-Aid of Fear that could manifest a lot of destruction. K: Well, I mean, we also want to… we’re concerned on this level as well. And one thing that we do to change that paradigm is at the end of every interview or anything we do, we always stress that we are co-creators. BD: Of course we are.. And that we need to wake up and get connected with each other such that we can actually change what’s going to happen and mitigate what’s going to happen. To be honest with you, although I see you… you’re one of the people that talks on the most negative level. Now, I realize that you may not intend it that way… BD: Yes. K: …but you sort of tell it like it is. BD: I really don’t even unveil the totality of what I know but I try to always deal with issues where I can provide solutions, whether it’s avian flu, like we’re working on … actual things, like the AeroClave Program to stop the avian flu coming in in aircraft. We’re actually working with Homeland Security and Dr. Gordon Peterson and others. And we try to bring in people to talk about some of the things. Because, to be honest with you, I’ve only discussed about 10% of the stuff I really know that could be very, very negative. The problem I see is, a lot of people kind of play down the desperateness of the situation. I think you need to do both. You need to show how bad it is, but also show that you have a lot of power, not only personally but corporately, once you activate and kind of unveil other peoples’ knowledge of this, to kind of steer us away from the iceberg of disaster. K: Well that’s we’re banking on. And that’s why we started our new website which you may be familiar with, which is projectavalon.net, where we have a forum there that’s absolutely taken off like wildfire. It’s all about finding safe places, networking, and building communities for what’s coming in the future. BD: Well, what they’re doing right now… Luckily, with the avenues and the things that’ve been given, we just had a major release of information about the Oxycontin Scam with the Israeli Mossad and the Dixie Mob and Purdue Pharma to build a plant in Israel to distribute billions of dollars of illegal Oxycontin. So 99% of it is coming in with the Israeli Mossad and the Dixie Mob, which is Dr. Richard Charles Norton. K: You know, Richard Norton is a big follower of our site and we’re in touch with him. BD: Oh, of course. They have multiple agendas, but they all do what is right in their own eyes, which is the basis of Luciferianism. K: Right. BR: Exactly. BD: Yes. There’s really only two perspectives in the universe: Connectedness to the creator of the universe, or just Luciferianism, which is Let your will be done. And everything else is just what I call falseness in religion which are, as they say, “real lies going on.” K: We’re on board with all of that. BD: Yes, it’s important for people to kind of start getting… how can I say, willing to remember what they always knew. K: That’s a nice way of putting it. BR: That’s what the word re-cognize means, isn’t it? BD: The problem is, you see… I tell people: If we have the spirit of the creator god in us, then we are the I AM and we have to stop pretending that it’s an external creator and also take responsibility for the destruction of our planet. We’re going to cutesy little movies like Wall-E and seeing large corporations turning the Earth into a garbage dump by design, which they’re doing very effectively, from spraying from these robotic drones, and creating pollution, and depleted uranium, and everything else. BD: Yes, I know that. What he’s done there… And he’s been on the show, and he’ll be on again this week. I managed to get him on Jeff Rense and he’s been on Don Nicoloff. I told him to get on as many shows as possible and try to promote … because this is what I call a fulcrum issue. Because the illegal Black-Op money is funding most of the building of these underground cities and off-world space platforms, etc. K: Right. BD: And they’re building an average of two of these giant underground cities every year now in America, plus they’re building cities and facilities all over the world. So they’re getting ready, not just for a staged WWIII or an alien invasion. They’re getting ready for something that’s cosmic and galactic. And the people that do this think they’re doing the right thing because they’re going to “preserve civilization.” So you have to get into the mind of the twisted people at the top that think: Well, 90% of the people will die, but civilization will survive. That’s what their mentality is. That’s what I call a “triage mentality” in terms of civilization. K: They also have an agenda, though, that has to do with clearing the Earth out for their own use.


We have to start to see beyond the greed of just a bunch of maniacs, to people that are in a Death Cult, to something that transcends human -- or even any other advanced entity of being that would be in this cosmos or universe -- that has malevolent intent. And when you start understanding that, you start to see beyond the agenda, and you start to see something that even if you wanted to just be rich and powerful, you wouldn’t do what they’re doing. It’s a Death March, in other words. K: Yes, it is. BD: And you also have to decide that you’re going to not participate in it. The biggest problem right now is that it can only happen if we give permission, including the fear. In fact, the fear gives them permission to create the future reality and to steer us toward disaster. BR: Yes. Exactly. K: I think that’s very good information and I think that’s also a good perspective that you’ve got there. I think that that kind of thing will be very important to put on the video for people. BD: Well I want to lift up… K: It’s not only information that they need, but they also need to understand how to deal with it. You understand? BD: Yes. I feel it’s almost … The process… Having worked and seeing many people die, it’s like seeing the death of toxic Ideas, the death of a toxic fairytale-land that never existed, and that that’s the civilization that they’ve become used to -- which can’t continue in its current state because it’s going to result in the death of all of us if we continue to allow it to exist. K: Yes, it’s kind of like a short death or a long death. BD: Right. In other words, we have to decide whether to participate in this game any longer that’s going to result possibly in the death of all human civilization, or whether we’re going to grow up and take responsibility. K: Yes. BR: That’s the core question right there. That’s it. BD: You mentioned you’re getting this from a number of different sources. I don’t want to just put it on the 2012 issue in terms of Nibiru and all this stuff, because… The major events that are happening right now, or actually are already started to happen, was the magnetic pole shift and the possible reversal of the magnetic flux of the Earth that can result in the collapse of the magnetosphere on or after 2012. It can result in the ozone layer going bye-bye. And a 60-minute drop in the ozone layer in 45 minutes would knock out the benthic layer of the upper oceans and kill most of the grassy plants on Earth and about 1/3 of the trees. BR: Yep. BD: So that’s already been worked out, that an ozone collapse would occur with a magnetic field collapse. K: Well, this is true. Although from what I understand, they do have technology that can mitigate some of this. BD: Sure they do. In fact, that’s one of the main Black-Op procedures under HAARP and the weather control, was using all these systems. In fact they have multiple layers of it. A lot of the work they’re doing is actually control of the weather if there’s a magnetic field collapse and a magnetic field flux shift of the Earth. K: Right. That’s the positive side. BD: This would not have to be solved on the technical level if we are spiritually on the right track, in other words. BR: We had insider confirmation from somebody whose name we have never revealed, but who’s a very brilliant scientist whose name you would recognize instantly. He told us that he was contracted under a Top Secret clearance for the Department of Homeland Security. And he told us that there were three events that would be coming up for us in the next few years, and he apologized for presenting us with bad news. The first one, he said, was a coronal mass ejection. BD: Well, in fact … Let me explain a little about this before you proceed so that you will understand that I’m getting a piece of information that may be correct. Coronal mass ejections are always tied to major earthquakes. And the reason is, it rings the Earth as a bell and the Earth… The tectonic plates have certain tectonic plate harmonics. So when you hit the right harmonic frequency … In fact, this is how tectonic weapons work. And I know because I worked with NSA and they told me, a senior agent told me, exactly how their spacebased tectonic weapons work by creating what’s called tensor harmonics in the plates. And they reach what’s called the slip threshold -- basically what’s called a piezoelectric slip threshold - of the plates. So, if there’s a coronal mass ejection, there’s a direct link. You guys should go back through the major earthquakes that occurred over the last century. The biggest ones have all been triggered off by massive solar ejections. They often occur after a period of incredible solar quietness. And we’ve had the quietest time in almost 100 years, with almost no sunspots. K: Yes. Exactly. BD: And that usually precedes a solar mass ejection. K: Also there’s a linkup between the sun and the movement of magma under the Earth. BD: That’s right, because magma’s basically an interlocked engine. In other words, it’s like the engine of the… The way the universe works is that the center of the galaxy is a black hole that


is equivalent to 2-trillions star masses the size of our sun. And there’s a photon jet that comes out of that that actually drives nuclear reactions in all the stars in the galaxy and creates the vortex -- the time/space vortex -- that actually creates the spin of the galaxy. Well, that interlocked magnetic flux lines of the suns interlocks with all the plasma fields underneath all the planets and stars, so that there’s an interlocking there. And there’s also an interlocking with our bodies’ cells, called the Lamar Effect, where the valence electrons are bumped out to the outer orbitals, to cause chemical reactions. So if you don’t have a magnetic flux field, your chemical reactions turn off and you die. So we’re all interlocked, in other words. The symbol for the super black hole at the center of each galaxy that creates this vortex field that’s connected across an umbilicus to a parallel universe. And the symbol for that is the swastika, the oldest symbol found in the temple at Delhi, India, over 5500 years ago. So they’re quite aware of it. That’s why they had the Society of the Black Sun in Germany because they understood that this knowledge was passed down through… from the sacred libraries collected in most recent times by the Romans. But it ended up in the Vatican Library. BR: Yes. Just to continue, though, this guy referenced the event of 1859 that you’ll probably know about as something to help us understand what kind of event a mass ejection is. BD: 1859… BR: There was a huge solar storm. At that time, of course, it didn’t affect any electronics or anything, but they had auroral displays as far south or as far north as the Equator. BD: Right. BR: And there was a big fireworks display and everyone just kind of watched it all. But nothing was taken down. And, of course, nowadays it would be a totally different story. And for some reason that we don‘t understand, this guy who contacted us a couple of years ago said that this thing would be coming up for us around about 2009. He did not explain how he knew this was coming. The second thing he said was that there was going to be a magnetic pole reversal. His exact words, just to support what you’re saying there. BD: Yes, that’s already happening. We’re having a collapse of the North Atlantic and the South Atlantic in the areas of the Arctic and the Antarctic. That’s already happening now. BR: And the last thing he said, and this was two years ago, and this may have been mitigated, (and this is a longer conversation that we’d like to talk with you about), he said there would be a pole shift, a physical pole shift. BD: So you’re talking about a physical pole shift. BR: He’s referring to a classified US Navy map showing drastically altered coastlines. Now you may be familiar with this. And the question that we’ve always had about this is: Well, where does this water come from? And John Moore says that… Actually… Look, we really need to understand the physics of this, because, due to the spin of the Earth, you’ve got… Actually sea level at the Equator is much further away from the center of the Earth than it is any other place because you’ve got centrifugal force. It’s about 400 feet higher at the Equator. BD: Right. BR: And so what we need to do is to change the axis of rotation of the Earth in some way and then all of that water readjusts itself. And when it readjusts itself you’re talking about huge impacts on coastlines. BD: Oh, yes. In other words, what you’re saying is there’s change in the bulge of the Earth to a different band. BR: Exactly. That’s right. And if the liquid bulge of the Earth moves, then that impacts billions of people everywhere. And this is just one of the physical knock-on effects of some kind of alteration in the way that the Earth is spinning. BR: This is what he’s saying. BD: Yes. In other words, you’re talking about a precession of the spin of the Earth that causes the actual continents to drift. BR: What he said was a pole shift. Now, there’s complicated information here that we can -- this is probably beyond the scope of this phone call, which we can talk about when we meet – but there’s a possibility that that’s been mitigated. In other words, it won’t happen. But even without that we’re in trouble enough. So it’s kind of like we’ve got a lot on our plates right now. BD: Well, at the very least, even if they mitigated, the main problem that’s going to happen is major climatic changes and famine. The most thorough way to do that is a pandemic, even more thorough than a nuclear war, because within two weeks of a nuclear war the radiation levels are low enough for troops and people to move around even without rad suits. So a pandemic is much more serious than that in terms of stopping services and so on. Because once the dust is clear, if you’ve got limited destruction you can find routes of transport and most of the ground level radiation is low enough people can walk around because most of the radioisotopes have dissipated. K: OK. Well, we’re getting also some information about this belt around the Equator, of… BR: This is John Moore’s information, which you may be familiar with. Because he says that he has talked to three independent submariners. And one of the words that he used was really quite compelling to me. He said that if you’re in a submarine, knowing where the bottom of the ocean is and knowing where the surface of the ocean is is mandatory. BD: Right.


BD: Well, one of the things that people need to know -- and I’m going to have Robert Felix back on; I’ve been investigating this for about 5, 6 years -- is that as we enter this energetic part of the galaxy, there’s a lot of cosmic rays and other things that act as micronuclei to trigger increased rainfall. And the thing that precipitates… One of the most serious effects of climate change is actually not global warming, it’s increased rainfall caused by cosmic particles that act as micronuclei. And the rainfall increase is the thing that drives us into an ice age. And it’s very probable that, as we head into this photon belt, that it’s going to trigger another ice age, because we’re in an interglacial period. And it doesn’t take 10 years to happen. It can happen literally in one year. BR: Yes. That’s right. K: Yes. BD: So it’s very probable that what will be triggered as we pass through this, even if we only have a magnetic pole shift and we survive that, is it’ll precipitate a glacial ice sheet mass of snowfall. The amount of rain that has been occurring in Canada and across north Europe and the northern States is absolutely phenomenal. If that continues through this winter, they may very well have snow in the northern latitudes that may not be gone by next summer. BR: We heard that there were some ice sheets in the Rockies that were previously just seasonal and which are now becoming permanent. BD: Right. Now what’s happening… And a lot of the Global Warming people try to say they’re seeing the polar ice sheet melting in the Arctic, but that’s because they’re directly over the Gakkel Range which is a 1500 km range of volcanic mountains and the water’s coming out at 700 degrees. So it’s melting from below. And so what’s going on in Antarctica… and nine out of ten glaciers are actually increasing in thickness. So what we’re heading into, I believe, is an ice age. The melting of the Arctic is all caused by under-oceanic currents caused by volcanism. There’s an incredible increase in volcanism. 90% of active volcanoes on Earth are under the oceans. BR: That makes sense. BD: That feeds along the inter-oceanic band there that is 40,000 miles long. One of the most active areas is the Gakkel Range in the Arctic. And that’s why the polar ice shelf was breaking off. We’re having global cooling at the same time that volcanism is increasing.



Project Camelot: Clif High, Half Past Human Telephone Interview Transcript
26 September 2008
C: OK, I’ll give you the basic spiel on the thing and we’ll go from there. And in 1994 I came across this idea that I called “The Language Model for Storing Data” while working for some of the high-tech… well, the largest software companies on the planet. And finally over time I wrote some software to support the idea, in an attempt to mine the internet for emotions around the idea of stocks and bonds, with the idea that, if I knew how people felt about them, I could predict what their reaction would be to developing news, ahead of their being able to make that actual reaction themselves…with the idea that this could be sold as a profit-making kind of a venture. And in 1997 I came across something that totally flipped my mind about this whole idea, in the sense that I went looking for Stanford University Network, a stock at the time, and came across “suns” because… in terms of the fuller energy source we’ve got for us… and noticed that there were some really interesting things going on in the language I was picking up. From there I… From 1997 to 2001 I deduced some of the following principals: All people are psychic. Most don’t know it. Even if you do know it, it does not impact the next statement I’m going to make, which is: That all humans leak out these psychic impressions in the language that they choose to use in ordinary conversation. And that was my basic premise to begin with. My working theory from that point was that if one could sample enough of the conversations going on around the planet and sift for the nuance between why one word might be chosen in an ordinary conversation as opposed to another word for the same conversation that basically you’d had a week ago, then one could determine what is moving us, if you will, at an unconscious