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Transcription of CCOSA Meeting With ACT, INC Executives and Legislators At The Capitol

2/11/2105
Rm 511A Capitol 2:30 3:30 and 3:30-4:40
(This is a transcription by Lynn Habluetzel of a recording made at this meeting where she was
representing Senator Sharp. It is not a perfect transcription, so please excuse typos and other
transcription errors. This is a text provided simply to make the public aware of the information supplied
to legislators and others by ACT during this meeting.)
Presentation by: Steven Crawford, Ryan Owens (CCOSA), 3 ACT Execs. (incl. Scott Montgomery, Policy
Advocacy & Government Relations from Act) and Dr. Sherry Labyer, Executive Director of OFC of
Accountability
The meeting started w/ Senators Ford, Halligan, Breechen, Thompson-left quickly,
Senators Sykes, Stanislawski, Jolley came in various times. Senators Ford and Halligan left.
Reps Nelson, Cannady, Casey, Nollan, Rogers, Caldwell, Strohm, Denney, Thomsen, Derby, came in
during the 2nd session some picked up the handout packet and left quickly
-------------------------------------------------0:00 Steve Crawford (SC)- align it as our exit/graduation test to college entrance exam, and have
meaning in the future. The EOIs serve no purpose in school.
Steve Montgomery (SM) want to talk about issues around ACT, what it is and what it isnt, how many
state are using it and how many on the horizon. See if we can answer some questions - is it common
core or not
4:00 SC- my granddaughter has taken it 7 times trying to raise her score- it is a high stakes test, we are
not afraid of high stakes tests. We want aligned with what is comprehensive 3-12 program if we choose
4:15 SM -ACT and ACT Aspire help understanding, a few misconceptions, a lot being written. 2
different tools, The Act 11 grade those that pass enter into credit bearing courses w/o remediation. ACT
and ACT Aspire 3-10 which is aligned to our ACT. ACT is the capstone of our 3-10 system, it works in
collaboration. Some concerns we have heard is Act is a common core test. Fact is Act Aspire is built
form the ground up to align to Act, our college readiness standards, those measure if you are ready to
move on into post-secondary training opportunities in college or the workplace.
6:40 All of the misconceptions about ACT measuring the Common Core, or being aligned to the Common
Core, short answer is it aligned to the Common Core? The answer is NO, we dont have alignment to the
Common Core. Can we measure the Common Core, YES. The reason we can measure the CC is the
constructs of CC are large. ACT measures the constructs of college and career readiness, SAT, PARCC.
SBAC measures lots of assessments measure constructs of CCR. ACT does the same. What measures
makes a student ready for college or career by the time they leave HS really focuses us a narrow band of

constructs that our research tells us prepares students to succeed postsecondary. The cc measures
that
7:50 also a misconception about we as a company is that we have retooled and realigned our business
model specifically to get the Common Core.
Act was based on 2006 research, 2 reports The Crisis of the Core and The Forgotten Middle , those 2
things drove us to the market before the advent of any assessment you see on the market today. We
have been at this for a while. Before the Common Core was created.
10:15 Halligan - You were building Aspire before the Common Core consortia was put together
SM- thats right we have not worked with any testing consortia
11:15 SM we were part of that original development in creating the Standards ( CC) but we have not
built our assessment, because we have our own college and career ready standards, on ACT and our
EPAS system, and thats what our EPAS system was built on
12:00 Brecheen - backmapped is a term unique to Common Core evolve you had this information
and content
13:00 again how ACT is not aligned to CC but can measure CC, but not measuring the full content of CC0SM explains backmapping
15:00 SM this is our first year out of the gate. We are in 2 states right now we will moderate.
15:30 B this is your first year to do this?
SM - first year was 2014 with Alabama, 2015 we also have South Carolina
17:00 B - If I am preparing my students for the ACT, why would I use Oklahoma standards, why wouldnt
I use ACT standards?
17:40 SM your Oklahoma standards were certified college and career ready, right? Our assessments
measure those critical constructs of what college and career ready look like. 8-11 level are limited to
high school preparedness.
18:20 B - you have shared staffers that worked on drafts of Common Core. and they are still on staff
SM- they are
B- and so that work product is .. some might have a philosophical or ideological that developed in a work
product over here on Common Core its fair to say Im taking similar ideology and bringing it back into
my standards for the Co. I am employed by.

18:40 SM- So the people that were working on development of the Standards are in our test
development center now so we dont have the they weCommon Core is not part of the context
that we look at
20:30 SM one state new to everyone no breadth of knowledge, no years and years of experience,
we are in real time happening now. Whatever assessments you are using there is no prior history.
22:30 B how does that not encourage the schools, regardless of PASS standards, the teaching of
common core aligned if you can access common core, not encourage the schools regardless of the PASS
standards in the state
22:45 SM Im not a psychometrician , but I can speak their language. Im not a test developer, I dont
want to get too weedy on this or wonky we dont mean sample our assessments we are going to
domain sample... we are going to test you across a variety of domains within the college and career
content
SM Alabama was the first state, used this last year and will again this spring, South Carolina is the 2nd
state. Both were SBAC states, both withdrew.
Note: Alabama still uses Common Core, South Carolina repealed cc- Brecheen makes note he talked w a
SC state senator and was told it is not a true repeal
Sm South Carolina wrote a RFP for a comprehensive assessment system and they ended up with ACT
Aspire, ACT WorkKeys and The ACT
30:00 B Can you not, can your testing specialist not draft a product specifically geared to Oklahoma,
aligned to our new standards from 2017 also be preparedness for The ACT ?
SM short answer is yes customized validity not preferred
32:10 SC a hug price tag please address the price I think we can get standards TO GO BEYOND (?)
AND CREATE OUR OWN TEST AND BE ON AN ISLAND BY OURSELVES AND NO National comparisons
its a dangerous place to go and too expensive.
32:50 B states rights
Clark Jolley - lecture on what states rights is Texas never had common core yet they use the ACT.
36:10 B we pay now $11-15 per test for an EOI. What would ACT be?
SM- depends on content $18-22 + $% for writing, also could add formative tests not norm referenced
yet cost is dependent on package Aspire low $20s + ACT $38 + writing = $51, all 4 subject areas
Senator Ford- 380000 students
40:00 B I am familiar with $11 per exam now, historically, so are we talking $18 w/o the how can we
get that?

Cross talk
SC- everything we do today we will cut if we started with them we will cut the cost
B- due to the reduction in the OCCT tests and High school that is where you are finding the savings
SC there and
Everyone gets loud
Jolley and the development remember how many test we are developing for 3-8, 5-7 (repeats)
B- so there is an omission of subject matter being assessed .. its not a true comparison of apple to
apples excluding High school theres going to be an omission of the number of tests
Ford- Act Aspire 3-10 English and math, OCCT 2 per grade English and math plus 4 others for 5 and 7
grades
Jolley (changed subject) physically lost time in the classroom long testing windowthe month of May
is lost
48:25 B if an RFP was left for Act to look at for Oklahomatruly aligned, so we wouldnt have to just
write a bill that says 80% of our standards matter , truly aligned , is that a possibility
SM we would want to work with you on that before you actually move forward doing
modifications would be a huge lift
89:50 B- I want to say something else, here we are talking about high stakes tests, so no one goes out
and talks about moving to Act I would hope no one would .and how it is high stakes, multiple
years of information, when you sit for the ACT you are talking a plethora of years you have to prepare
yourself for, its real high stakes.
SC- thats why you should look at the full battery from 3-10 and 11 your kids will be ready 5 to 7 years
from now
(a second session begins some members leave now several House members arrive the table is
almost full of Members)
99:20 SM- we are not apologetic we were part of the development time to create what is the
Common Core we did that with others, we were part of that.
We begin this conversation about college and career readiness in the late 80s, predates the Common
Core in 2004 there was a college and career initiative. ACT Aspire began development before
completion of the Common Core.
1.03:15 B- ere a so you said specifically, I have here a question so you said specifically its not aligned
to common core, it assesses it

SM right
B- assess the Common Core not aligned does 319-317-1028 mean anything
SM - its an Iowa phone #
B- public relations of ACT,ORG
SM yes
B- I have a press release from 2012, before Alabama, that the new ACT will be aligned to the Common
Core which draws heavily from ACTs college and career readiness standards and research. July 2,
2012 how can you tell us its not aligned to common core when I have a press release that says that it
is?
SM - Well, Id , Id have to find out
Ryan Owens- Your work product predated Common Core
Jolley -Common Core came in june 2010
(rehashing repeating costs, number of tests, never clear it all up)
1.17:35 A Coody- (realizes SS, history etc will not be tested) visibly upset
1:19:00 Nelson asks about the number of tests- what EOI tests are being replaced by ACT , and OCCTs
R. Owens- ( jumps in) EOIS that would be eliminate all state mandated tests not mandated by Federal
law so if you ran that bill with Act in place Act could help with working through the waiver
1.21:40 SC .. it is a high stakes test it is right now tooand in that we believe it ought to be a
combination of that kind of test and other things for a kid
1.22:25 Nelson- your proposal is The Act have you looked at our EOIs and how they would line up to
ACT and what the cut score would be. My concern is its going to be something like 10.
SM- we have not
Nelson what are some of the other states cut scores
SM- I would, ah off the top of my head I dont know.
1.29:45 B- I cant get over the fact that you say you are not alignedyour website right now on Act
Aspire, would yu like me to forward it to you? its aligned to Common Core, on Act Aspire. Weve
talked about the product, weve talked about the press release, its on your website right now!
SM- we use alignment in a lot of different ways. We talked earlier about testing the constructs but
thats not what we built the test on, we didnt align it to the Common Core.

Cross talk
B- your website needs to change or your press release. (walks out)
1:32:15 Nelson- I have a question where we could conflict with language we passed last year um
repealing of Common Core . ACT website says measures students interest, this may be WorkKeys, I
dont know, measures self -confidence, behavioral obstacles that prevent success and motivation,
disciplines, social interaction ACT tests captures a profile of behavioral attributes psych social regulation,
conscientiousness , measures of self-regulation we passed language last year that specifically prohibits
that and it says all (reads language)
SM- you described our Engage test. It is not part of The Act or Aspire battery.
Nelson - Act and Aspire there is no measurement of non-cognitive
SM- Engage does and it is not part of this particular battery