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Comparison of Enpac 2500 & CSI 2130


K.Khan

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posted 07 July 2011 04:34 AM

Dear All
Can any body have the experience of using both Enpac-2500 and CSI 2130 vibration analyzers, What are the pros and cons of both
vibration analyzers. Moreover, what is the overall market share in condition monitoring of both analyzers.

We intend to use analyzers also for advance diagnostics options i.e. phase analysis, transit data analysis, field balancing, resonance
testing and motor fault diagnostics.
I come to know that both vibration analyzer i.e. Enpac-2500 / Dynamix 2500 (new model launched by rockwell) and CSI2130 have all
above features but which analyzer is better in terms of use / analysis.
Please give your sincere opinion as we have to decided which model to go opt.
Thanks
K.Khan
Posts: 4 | Location: Karachi | Registered: 08 September 2010

Dave Reynolds

posted 08 July 2011 07:00 AM

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Used the enpac over 10 years ago, at that time very small screen, limitations on collection specifications and demodulation filters,
delicate connectors, limited advanced functions, light weight, limited battery life and data storage capacity, typically can be used with
several OEM's of vibration software.
2130, next generation of a line that has been in place for over 30 years, rugged, good battery life, recharges quickly, advanced analysis
features, will not play with other OEM's vibration software.
Will you be using a network? What software will you use for your advanced analysis features? Can you store your corrective data,
balance, alignment, oil, infrared, pk vs phase, orbits, startup coast down, etc..
Always be wary of the "new" line, bound to be bugs to work out of a new system, see link...
http://literature.rockwellauto...1441-rn001_-en-p.pdf
The emonitor software is the best in industry having used it for over 6 years.
As Aubrey states $.02 worth
Dave
Posts: 646 | Location: Nebraska | Registered: 20 February 2005

Jack1954

posted 08 July 2011 12:28 PM

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I used the Enpac 1200 not good at all no backlight small screen. I went to the 2500 , loved it larger screen and really nice bright color
screen. Very easy to use I nad a 2 channel. Battery life was great. As I recall it was a Soney camera battery you could get most
anywhere, not sure though I never replaced it. Was very light and had 16 megs onboard memory, expandable. Very rugged I dropped
it, threw it and bumped it always worked. I have used the 2130 a little and the 2120 a lot. Works well but very heavy and awkard to
use with one hand.
Posts: 73 | Location: Kansas | Registered: 27 March 2010

jbalko

posted 08 July 2011 09:06 PM

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The original 2500 (not newest)is nice and small, that is about it. Did not like the user interface and functionality. Great if you are flying
though machinery and dont want to look at the data. The 2130 is probably the best collector while Rockwell is the best software. 2130
is a powerful, highly functional and user friedly analyzer. Great for all advanced analysis features.
Posts: 193 | Location: Pa | Registered: 15 March 2005

Ian S

posted 10 July 2011 08:01 PM

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I used a 2120 (and Mastertrend/RBMWare/MHM) for a bit over 12 years, and have been using ("fighting with" might be a better
description) Enpac 2500 and EMonitor for 18 months. Haven't had any experience with a 2130.
Personally I find the CSi software much easier to use. It has a range of functions that simply are not available in the Rockwell software;
Fault frequency overlay in the waveform
Ability to change units in the waveform
Change units in the spectrum with a single keystroke
The speed references actually work for variable/varying speed set ups (they don't work correctly in Rockwell)
X key function in CSi - locates families of peaks - harmonics and sidebands.
Overlay of fault frequencies in CSi spectrum is much better.
Simultaneous data acquistition for PeakVue and velocity (speeds up collection time on slow speed equipment quite considerably)
One of the few things I have found in the Rockwell software that is better is the alarms - they are much easier to set up and apply. The
set up for what data is trended, however, is a different story.

The other area where Rockwell is better is in how routes can be set up. You can have the same machine in a route twice (or more), if
the sequence of collection makes it desirable to do that.
For ease of processing a lot of data manually, I find CSi much easier.
Only my opinion.
Ian
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Ian S, 10 July 2011 09:37 PM
Posts: 283 | Location: Victoria, Australia | Registered: 14 March 2005

K.Khan

posted 11 July 2011 05:04 AM

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Dear All
I am indeed thankful for your responses.
I thing common in all replies was that Rockwell Automation software i.e. Emonitor Factory (Unlimited) is better or probably have edge
on CSI 2130 ASM suit software.
On hardware side, does enpac-2500 offered all features of advance diagnostics as offered by CSI 2130 moreover, i have used modules
of field balancing, FRF testing and start up / coast down of datapac-1500 but not aware of Enpac-2500.
Does any body used above mentioned advance diagnostics features of both enpac-2500 & CSI 2130, which is easy to use and
consistent with the results.
Looking forward for replies
Thanks
K.Khan
Posts: 4 | Location: Karachi | Registered: 08 September 2010

Ian S

posted 12 July 2011 07:04 PM

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quote:
I thing common in all replies was that Rockwell Automation software i.e. Emonitor Factory (Unlimited) is better or probably have edge
on CSI 2130 ASM suit software.
No, not in my opinion.
There are a couple of features in the Rockwell software that are better, but in general I find the CSi software significantly more user
friendly, with much higher capability.
Only my AU$0.02, (equivalent to 800g of carbon)
Ian
Posts: 283 | Location: Victoria, Australia | Registered: 14 March 2005

Ron Brook

posted 18 July 2011 09:02 AM

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Ian S,
You gotta be jokin' me! I have NEVER heard anyone who has used both softwares EVER call CSI more user friendly OR having a higher
capability.
I suggest you have either never used Emonitor or you were shown it's features by someone who didn't know what they were doing.
Regards,
Ron Brook
Posts: 1125 | Location: Philadelphia,PA | Registered: 18 July 2006

Mike Brooks

posted 18 July 2011 01:44 PM

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Agrees 100% with Ron.


Posts: 169 | Location: South Alabama | Registered: 09 May 2005

Vibe-Rater

posted 18 July 2011 09:33 PM

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Hi Ron / Mike,
Have you used CSI for 18 months like Ian has Entek for this time?
It's easy to poo poo using the line I've NEVER heard...
Reading above Ian details quite a number of specific items that I also find very important. If Entek does not have a function like CSI's
"X" function then I would throw it in the trash based on it alone.
Perhaps all experienced Entek users could assist Ian with answering where in Entek the CSI functionality he describes can be found. -particularly the speed references for variable speed set ups. That would save him a lot of headaches. I know Ian personally, he is highly
capable and has access to long term Entek users. Hate to see his well considered words be shoved aside with short retorts.
Ian, I have forwarded the "machines more than once in a route suggestion" directly to CSI Knoxville and it is on the list. I too would
like to see that introduced. By the time you get to trade in your Entek for CSI it might be there ;-) (and I am not swapping with you!)
rgds
Posts: 1078 | Location: Australia | Registered: 17 March 2005

Ian S

posted 18 July 2011 10:16 PM

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quote:
I have NEVER heard anyone who has used both softwares EVER call CSI more user friendly OR having a higher capability.
I suggest you have either never used Emonitor or you were shown it's features by someone who didn't know what they were doing.

Oh well, you have now!


I have been using Entek/Emonitor since Feb 2010. So 17 months should count for something.
I used CSi for about 12 years.
To be fair, I have not had any formal training in Emonitor and it's functions. Pretty much entirely self taught (which might explain a lot)
I've spent lots of time reading through the "help" manual (which has a series of typo's in it), but haven't been able to learn a great
deal.
But for routine analysis/fault detection, I find CSi better.
For example, if I want to see a waterfall plot of the last 8 spectra taken on a point, this is very easy in CSi. In Emonitor, I have to
specify date ranges, and if the archive data filter is turned on, it interferes with this. To evenly space the spectra, I have to muck
around with date ranges, and it doesn't put dates against the plots. In Csi I can change the units with a single key stroke, and the units
don't default back to the native units every time I change a veiw or window or press a key.
If I want to display the last 6 waveforms on a single plot - Emonitor does not do this (or at least, I can't figure out how). I can't change
the units of a waveform in Emonitor. I can't overlay fault frequencies in the waveform in Emonitor.
The peakvue waveform is a useful diagnostic tool. I can't say the same for a gSE waveform.
Emonitor doesn't allow analog integration, and thus there are a series of high pass filters to get rid of the inevitable ski slopes that (if
you will pardon the pun) arise from digital integration, which on slower speed items have the happy knack of removing
cage/belt/running speed frequencies.

The speed references in CSi work correctly. For variable speed equipment, Emonitor has a bug that puts the wrong speed against points
that are not the same speed as the "tagged" point (gearboxes or rolls of different diameter). There are 4 different places in the
Emonitor software to define the speed for a given point??
Emonitor doesn't offer autocorrelated waveform, circular waveform, X key function to find and highlight families of peaks in the
spectrum.
The fault frequency overlay in the Emonitor spectrum is less than useful, especially if it is a more complex bit of equipment (gearbox

with a variety of frequencies of interest, for example) and/or there is a bit of noise in the spectrum.
There are some features in Emonitor that are better - alarms, and frequency bands update automatically. And the laser tach built into
the Enpac 2500 is a good tool. But on the whole....
OK, time for a Bex and a nice lie down.
Ian
Posts: 283 | Location: Victoria, Australia | Registered: 14 March 2005

John J

posted 19 July 2011 08:09 AM

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Ian,
To space the spectra evenly in the waterfall format make sure a waterfall (spectrum map) is active and click on the PLOT menu at the
top and select OPTIONS. Select the "Z AXIS" tab and check the box in the upper left hand corner "EVENLY SPACE DATA." Selecting a
date range for data shouldn't be that hard. From the TOOLS menus, select "ARCHIVE FILTER SETTING" and then select the "FROM /
TO" and set the dates.
There are many shortcuts that you could learn to speed the process up. I would recommend a class or hire an informed consultant.
The way I like to look at the data is in the Auto View Plot. I have created a plot by spliting the Auto View Plot vertically and adding the
Spectrum Map (waterfall) and saving the plot under a different name. You can look at all the data at one position at the same time and
have a waterfall of the spectral data, too (see the attachment). Recall a list and bring up the Auto View with Waterfall plot and you can
screen each position in the list by holding down the SHIFT KEY and pressing the PAGE DOWN OR PAGE UP key to look at each position
in the list. If you have more than one spectrum specification at a position, you can view the next spectrum in the waterfall by holding
down the CTRL key and pressing PAGE DOWN key until the next spectrum shows in the waterfall. I have even programmed my wheel
mouse so that when I press the wheel buttion it give the command "CTRL - PAGE DOWN" and I can keep my hand on the mouse while
screening data. Hope this helps.
Regards,
John J

AutoView_with_Waterfall.doc (51 Kb, 27 downloads)


Posts: 474 | Location: Wichita, KS | Registered: 23 February 2005

Ian S

posted 19 July 2011 08:39 PM

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John,
Thank you very much for your reply.
I had figured out the evenly spaced data button you mention. I had also found the archive filter, and played with that.
What I want to be able to do is to display the last 6 or 8 spectra, but also be able to see the magnitude trend for the available history
(in our case, going back 15 years or more). This gives me a detailed view of the recent condition of the machine (from the spectra),
and also a brief glance of the history of the machine (from the trend).
So I was using the date limiting function ("Z" axis max and min) to limit the spectra shown in the waterfall, but not invoking the
archive filter so I could see the full trend. But this causes the Z axis limits to do all sorts of strange things if I land on a point that has a
date range that doesn't match, or click on a point that is a numeric (instead of spectrum, waveform or magnitude)
Again, thanks for your reply. One of the great things about this forum is the effort people go to in assisting.
regards,
Ian
Posts: 283 | Location: Victoria, Australia | Registered: 14 March 2005

Ron Brook

posted 25 July 2011 03:30 PM

Ian,
I have been on CSI within the last month assisting a customer.

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I believe that the worst thing you can do is to use a new software the way you liked to use the old software. Every software has its
strengths and weaknesses. I have attached a plot that has served me well in Emonitor;
It has all velocity spectra in a waterfall, the overall velocity magnitude in the upper left, the 1x magnitude over time middle right, latest
velocity spectra with alarm bands in the center, spike energy lower left, time acceleration waveform from last trip bottom middle, and
time acceleration waveform from this trip bottom right.
Moving the cursor in any pane, updates the data in the other views automatically. Powerful stuff.
I guess my major gripe with CSI is its limited ability to put multiple plots in one screen and have them all hyperlinked. It means they
never moved to a true 32 bit based platform.
Regards,
Ron Brook
Doc6.doc (85 Kb, 47 downloads)
Posts: 1125 | Location: Philadelphia,PA | Registered: 18 July 2006

Ian S

posted 25 July 2011 09:27 PM

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Thanks Ron.
That plot looks good.
quote:
I believe that the worst thing you can do is to use a new software the way you liked to use the old software. Every software has its
strengths and weaknesses.

Indeed I am used to looking at the data in a certain way. I cut my CM teeth, so to speak, in the pulp and paper industry.
Lots of variable speed and slow speed equipment.
My personal experience is I found problems to be most easily visible when I can see a plot of (say) 8 spectra on a graph.
We take a velocity spectrum, a gSE spectrum, and a 10kHz acceleration spectrum on most points (locations, in Emonitor parlance)

If I can quickly skip through a waterfall of the last 8 or so spectra of each of these, then I can nearly always see if anything has
changed or problems have emerged. In Plotdata, Autoplot, this can be set up and I can scan through lots of data quickly just by
tapping the enter key.
The plots scale only to the data that is displayed, not to historical data that is NOT displayed on the waterfall, and I can change the
units displayed on the spectrum with a single keystroke: to change the units of a spectrum from velocity to acceleration, press "1". To
go back to velocity, press "2". Displacement is "3", and "4" will display the data in the native units. I can't find anywhere in emonitor to
do this in a single keystroke.
In emonitor, to change from mm/sec to g's I have to double click on the unit description, and cycle through all the units in the system.
In our case, that is 5 lots of double clicks to get from mm/sec to g's. Cycling though these 5 double clicks, I get units of gSE and
HFD???? before I get to g's. Then as soon as I navigate away from the screen or plot that I am in, or change it (such as adjusting the
speed recorded against the spectrum) it defaults back to mm/sec.
I could go on for quite a while about a variety of other bugs and annoyances (at least, they annoy the heck out of me)
Certainly the CSi software takes a while to learn. And yes, I am used to it. As I noted earlier, there a some really good features in
Emonitor and the Enpacs. But I find it cumbersome to use. I don't particulary care whether or not it is Windows compatible - I want the
software to display data that I can easily and quickly manipulate to show faults, or to diagnose what is going on.
I am really appreciative of your help, both off line and on the forum. I guess that we will be best to simply agree to disagree in this
case
regards,
Ian
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Ian S, 25 July 2011 10:30 PM
Posts: 283 | Location: Victoria, Australia | Registered: 14 March 2005
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